"Steve Jobs was a monumental resource for mankind not seen since Thomas Edison and his untold visionary achievements will be greatly missed." http://blogs.ft.com/fttechhub/2011/10/steve-jobs-1955-2011/#axzz1ZkLpwelM
Apple released a statement paying tribute: "Steve's brilliance, passion and energy were the source of countless innovations that enrich and improve all of our lives ... The world is immeasurably better because of Steve."
So what do you think?
there is that song by Bell x3
You're not Maud gonne
But then again neither was she
I think...while Steve Jobs was a huge influence in the technological world, his stature was not such that the BBC needed to send a radio team to the Apple Store in Covent Garden to cover the "crowds gathering". There weren't any (at 8:30am anyway) and the only sign of Jobs passing was a yellow Post-It on the front door.
RIP
May the thread police lock you up and do unmentionable things to you seafóid!
He was the leader of a Techno cult and that is it, Tim Cook won't hold it together as well as he did during hard times.
Good old Apple, using Steve Jobs passing as a marketing opportunity, he would have been proud...
RIP
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on October 06, 2011, 09:38:19 AM
He was the leader of a Techno cult and that is it, Tim Cook won't hold it together as well as he did during hard times.
Eh, no. He was an employee/owner of a company thats mission was to make money and make the company a success. To do that they had to be very skilled at design and marketing which obviously they were. To do that they had to understand their customers. Does that make him the head of a cult - no it means he was part of a team that were very good at what they did.
There's already a Death Notice page
Quote from: mylestheslasher on October 06, 2011, 10:16:30 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on October 06, 2011, 09:38:19 AM
He was the leader of a Techno cult and that is it, Tim Cook won't hold it together as well as he did during hard times.
Eh, no. He was an employee/owner of a company thats mission was to make money and make the company a success. To do that they had to be very skilled at design and marketing which obviously they were. To do that they had to understand their customers. Does that make him the head of a cult - no it means he was part of a team that were very good at what they did.
We have a believer here ;D
Have to say he never influenced my life and he never got and will not get a penny of me as I think apple is rubbish. To be honest its a particular person who wants to own an apple product, these people are people that like to be confined within boundaries and really think they are cool because they have one. Apple were good at marketing there products to suckers simple as that.
Bought my first Apple product a few months back (iPad2), it's a handy device for the commute and to browse the papers of a morning.
Not sure where the whole Apple 'cult' thing comes from, Apple, less sure why people would raise it when the CEO passes away ???
Quote from: Hereiam on October 06, 2011, 10:49:15 AM
Have to say he never influenced my life and he never got and will not get a penny of me as I think apple is rubbish. To be honest its a particular person who wants to own an apple product, these people are people that like to be confined within boundaries and really think they are cool because they have one. Apple were good at marketing there products to suckers simple as that.
So everyone that owns apple products are suckers? Must be great to be you who never got suckered like that. I have an IPOD. I think it's great. End of story. RIP Steve Jobs, a 56 year old man who worked hard all his life. A pity he didn't live longer to enjoy it.
Hereiam - Steve Jobs had a massive influence in the technology we use today - like him or loathe him he has influenced a lot of stuff around us.
I also think calling anyone who uses apple products suckers is a bit ott - some people just like the way apple products work, and have no desire to push the boundaries.
Only bought a shuffle off him, but can appreciate his impact on the the world. Enjoy the day in front of you because all the money in the world is worth nothing without good health.
When I first got an Apple in the winter of 1996, the rumblings were that Steve Jobs was throwing shapes to come back from the cold. OS7.5.5 was in vogue and Apple was licensing Apple clones. Apple stock was less than $19 a share.
The 7.5.5 extensions control panel, what a godsend that was. And fond memories of Cyberdog,
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTP0t_sbX1DPnGO8N7xETb-8epXcW-EjJO4K-74e0ag2bB6iBBN) Apple's first internet application, as the file downloaded, cyberdog could be seen galloping away in the download window (http://www.cyberdog.org/articles/grimsley/thinkcd/images/puppy.gif)
Cyberdog was a true best friend, IE was stone age primitive in comparison for user friendly and stability experience, but somehow Cyberdog's development got lost in those Apple dark years and Jobs put the bullet into Cyberdog.
That was the end of the cliquy off centre, thinking outside the box, Apple in 1998, Apple was just about dead when Jobs came back, he reinvented Apple Macs and Apple went from suit&sandals to fully corporate.
Often you hear that Jobs was a control freak etc but for a Mac user, the control freakery ensured that drivers for components used in the Mac were already stable and fixed before the OS update was released.The withdrawal of clone licenses ensured that stability was a feature for all users. It's besides the point that the competing Mac clones were offering similar specced machines at lower cost and increasing their market share :)
The fact that those apple users were so loyal, was a base for Apple to reinvent itself with consumer fashion design iMacs, pink pods, as well as holding onto and satisfying its core fans with top end portables and desktops.
So you have a range of Apple consumers, from the fashion consumer to the top end users.
But primarily the success is based on consistently high figures to do with consumer satisfaction, not fashion. And those consumer satisfaction figures are based on reliability and stability.
You have to be impressed with the marketing skills of a man who can turn customers into fans.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTOyVRk8-G4&feature=related
Sure Christy Cooney turned hundreds of thousands of supporters, volunteers and members into 'Patrons'. Customers are a piece of piss.
Great speech from Jobs here :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1R-jKKp3NA
Well worth the 15 Mins ..
RIP
I'm more impressed with his Pixar work.
Anyways I guess no matter how influential you are or how many bucks you have in the bank, Cancer can still strike and be a brutal disease.
RIP Steve.
He can't take his billions with him either, can he?
Death is a great leveller, all the same.
thought this as a good piece from him:
"Remembering that I'll be dead soon is the most important tool I've ever encountered to help me make the big choices in life. Because almost everything - all external expectations, all pride, all fear of embarrassment or failure - these things just fall away in the face of death, leaving ony what is truly important. Remembering that you are going to die is the best way I know to avoid the trap of thinking you have something to lose. You are already naked. There is no reason not to follow your heart."
"Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life. Don't be trapped by dogma - which is living with the results of other people's thinking. Don't let the noise of others' opinions drown out your own inner voice."
When I was a teenager I always dreamt of having a jukebox in my house. Stereo had been around a while, Dolby Sound was new, Hi-Fis were very new, and all the cool guys could give you a spec as long as your arm as to what sound systems they would have in their houses. In my tiny mind, I was cooler though because the jukebox in my house always trumped them. And I didn't have to quote any spec.
Jobs put a gigantic jukebox in my pocket. Then he put one in my phone. How cool was that?
This was after he put a computer on my desk.
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2011, 01:33:51 PM
When I was a teenager I always dreamt of having a jukebox in my house. Stereo had been around a while, Dolby Sound was new, Hi-Fis were very new, and all the cool guys could give you a spec as long as your arm as to what sound systems they would have in their houses. In my tiny mind, I was cooler though because the jukebox in my house always trumped them. And I didn't have to quote any spec.
Jobs put a gigantic jukebox in my pocket. Then he put one in my phone. How cool was that?
This was after he put a computer on my desk.
Yeah, but you can't lean against the jukebox in your pocket and drink sasparilla as you click your fingers. You were on a happy days kick.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 06, 2011, 01:38:04 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2011, 01:33:51 PM
When I was a teenager I always dreamt of having a jukebox in my house. Stereo had been around a while, Dolby Sound was new, Hi-Fis were very new, and all the cool guys could give you a spec as long as your arm as to what sound systems they would have in their houses. In my tiny mind, I was cooler though because the jukebox in my house always trumped them. And I didn't have to quote any spec.
Jobs put a gigantic jukebox in my pocket. Then he put one in my phone. How cool was that?
This was after he put a computer on my desk.
Yeah, but you can't lean against the jukebox in your pocket and drink sasparilla as you click your fingers. You were on a happy days kick.
Not sure which particular planet I was on at the time.
Ipod, Ipad and iphone have provided massive technological advances and he changed computing, the mobile phone and internet and probably music forever.
I'm not an apple fanboy. They've made technology much more accessible and appealing to the mass market and that was their great success in my view. Androids etc have went the way they have went though due to being forced to by apple developments.
Definitely the man had great vision and innovation and fair play to him for that. RIP.
It will be interesting, morbidly I suppose, to see what impact losing him will have on Apple. iPhone 4s announcement suggests a bad impact...
It's great to have a personal jukebox but will he be remembered in 50 years' time ?
Cluxton's free kick, on the other hand, is immortal.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1006/breaking17.html (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1006/breaking17.html)
Fantastic article.
What will Apple do?
They will milk the publicity for all its worth, they will release a Steve Jobs special Mac which will include his greatest hits, also include a memoriam affirmation type application , designed to inspire you to overcome the imposed shackles of your environment.
Well, he won the race to cloud computing.
I'll get my coat.
The Sad Mac
(http://forums.macresource.com/file.php?1,file=2437,filename=sad_mac.jpg)
Apple (never mind Jobs) didn't give us the MP3 player. Or the smart phone. Or the personal computer, for that matter*. Granted they did invent the yoke that's too big to be a phone, too powerless to be a computer, too big to put in your pocket ... but they put an "i" before the name of that electronic notepad and made a fortune out of it. That's genius, but it's the genius of P.T. Barnum.
*The first personal computer was developed by my old friend and employer, Mers Kutt. (http://www.ideacityonline.com/presenters/mers-kutt/)
I think some people are overselling a lot of the tech advances apple made - their strength was in the packaging of existing tech and making it more attractive to the consumer.
Even their MacOS is gloss on something else.
They did that amazingly well however.
In the early days they where much more techie - the Woz was the main man there, but jobs got him to do stuff, and he drove it forward. Woz would still be tinkering in his garage now otherwise
Quote from: nifan on October 06, 2011, 02:36:24 PM
In the early days they where much more techie - the Woz was the main man there, but obs got him to do stuff, and he drove it forward. Woz would still be tinkering in his garage now otherwise
And Hardy would be telling us about Mers Kutt via smoke signals.
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2011, 02:22:43 PM
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1006/breaking17.html (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1006/breaking17.html)
"Stay Hungry. Stay Foolish"
Sure. Say you are a borrower in 200K in negative equity in a rural town.
You go to discuss the situation with the bank. And adopt a "stay hungry stay foolish" approach.
the house is repossessed.
You are a corner back on the parish junior C's
The ball comes in.
You adopt a stay foolish approach and stick it in the back of your own net.
Jobs seems to get all the credit for everything Apple ever achieved when it seems that it was others who did all the work regarding the designing of their merchandise from the original apple machine to the ipad.
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2011, 02:39:20 PM
Quote from: nifan on October 06, 2011, 02:36:24 PM
In the early days they where much more techie - the Woz was the main man there, but obs got him to do stuff, and he drove it forward. Woz would still be tinkering in his garage now otherwise
And Hardy would be telling us about Mers Kutt via smoke signals.
That's the point, indeed. Mers's company went bust before he had sold more than a couple of thousand MC70s. His Key Edit company (he invented the technology that replaced punched cards for data entry, too) was taken over too and he didn't make a penny out of that. I worked for him when he was making his third fortune on the All ChargeCard. Same story again. He has an ongoing lawsuit with Intel over copyright infringement by their Pentium processor.
If 'd been Steve Jobs, All Computers would be today's Apple and I'd be claiming credit for inventing the personal computer. Of course I'd also be dead, so I'm happy enough with the outcome. So far.
Apples strength is their interfaces more than anything else. The usability was a massive advancement and the ibrand was one of their key successes.
They may have harnessed technology which existed but they changed the way people viewed technology.( moreso among the non techy of us might I add but non techy describes a large percentage of the population). The usability of their gear is very impressive.
Quote from: nrico2006 on October 06, 2011, 02:47:51 PM
Jobs seems to get all the credit for everything Apple ever achieved when it seems that it was others who did all the work regarding the designing of their merchandise from the original apple machine to the ipad.
Michael O'Leary gets all the credit for anything Ryanair did. His biography claims he would have fired the girl who set up the website had he known she wasn't doing what she was supposed to be doing. He nows take the credit for the website and closing all the travel agents.
Dems the breaks.
Quote from: Hardy on October 06, 2011, 02:35:00 PM
Apple (never mind Jobs) didn't give us the MP3 player. Or the smart phone. Or the personal computer, for that matter*. Granted they did invent the yoke that's too big to be a phone, too powerless to be a computer, too big to put in your pocket ... but they put an "i" before the name of that electronic notepad and made a fortune out of it. That's genius, but it's the genius of P.T. Barnum.
*The first personal computer was developed by my old friend and employer, Mers Kutt. (http://www.ideacityonline.com/presenters/mers-kutt/)
For sure Apple didn't invent the portable mp3 player but the Apple iPod classic was sporting a 80gb drive, whilst competitors had a 1, 2 or 4gb drive. All ipod players were streamlined (locked) into compatibility with software which elegantly helped you to sort out your music library. Even a baby could negotiate setting up the iPod to sync with selected items from the music library.
Most every other relevant consumer items had to become iPod compatible as a feature, from the audio head unit in your car to iPod docks on a player.
There is a genius in making things work and Apple do that very well
(http://i325.photobucket.com/albums/k389/quantumleaping/0c0d5e74.jpg)
Will Apple still be worth in excess of $300bn in 5 years time ?
Quote from: seafoid on October 06, 2011, 03:47:49 PM
Will Apple still be worth in excess of $300bn in 5 years time ?
Possibly. But will $300bn be worth $300bn in 5 years time?
Quote from: seafoid on October 06, 2011, 03:47:49 PM
Will Apple still be worth in excess of $300bn in 5 years time ?
::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
If it's not, I'm sure you'll be able to post an article on how it's Israel's fault.
Quote from: mick999 on October 06, 2011, 12:13:50 PM
Great speech from Jobs here :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1R-jKKp3NA
Well worth the 15 Mins ..
RIP
It is sad that Steve Jobs has died - but it comes to all of us - the great leveller indeed.
That said - some of the nonsense in the commencement speech is just that - nonsense. No harm to Mr Jobs - but it's easy to stand up there and tell people to follow their dreams and stay hungry and stay foolish - when you've billions in your back pocket. For every Steve Jobs there are millions of us who can't stay hungry or stay foolish - otheriwse the kids and the wife would stay hungry. I'd love to tell my boss that there have been too many mornings where I woke up and thought to myself that if today is my last day on earth that I am most certainly not spending it doing the things I want to do, and that I have to quit my job. But I cant. I have bills to pay and mouths to feed. All this dreamy stuff is just nonsense.
If everyone thought like that where would we be though. This guy didn't which has been a great help in advancing day to day technology.
This changes everything.
To me Apple are really just a marketing and design company not a leader in technology, they are usually playing catch up in the technology stakes.
Back in 2004 I was using my iRiver Multi Codec 40GB HDD media player to listen to my music, look at my pictures and flims on the colour screen, used it too to connect to external USB devices like my camera to transfer pictures over to it, listen to the radio and use it as a voice recorder, while the iPod still had the black and white screen with sub standard quality of music, in farness a few months later aplle did introduce the ipod photo (colour screen so you could view pictures on it).
Of course for a Techy like me the interface on the iRiver was grand but for a non-techy it was a nightmare and that where Apple comes into its own the design of the interface, made technology like this available to the masses and through marketing made it a status symbol too, hats off to them on that front but technology leader, I am sorry but no.
Henry Ford didn't invent the car, but he did a lot of ensure that everyone could have one.
Steve Jobs brought technology to the masses.
Listen guys we have very high standards if we dont rate Jobs. He achieved a wee bit more than most. Some of the folks on here would criticise Eddison because the electricity was already there in the first place. I couldnt see the Celtic Tiger take too long to roar again with some of the product designers, inventers and marketeers that are on here at the helm.
"The real fool is the individual who cant understand the greatness of others." F Larmor
Quote from: rrhf on October 06, 2011, 05:40:20 PM
Listen guys we have very high standards if we dont rate Jobs. He achieved a wee bit more than most. Some of the folks on here would criticise Eddison because the electricity was already there in the first place. I couldnt see the Celtic Tiger take too long to roar again with some of the product designers, inventers and marketeers that are on here at the helm.
"The real fool is the individual who cant understand the greatness of others." F Larmor
Great post RRHF. Too many people are glass half empty people. They are the ones who will still be paying a mortgage when in their mid 50s and grumbling about people like Jobs not being that good. He and others at apple are obvious genius'.
Quote from: EC Unique on October 06, 2011, 06:00:03 PM
Quote from: rrhf on October 06, 2011, 05:40:20 PM
Listen guys we have very high standards if we dont rate Jobs. He achieved a wee bit more than most. Some of the folks on here would criticise Eddison because the electricity was already there in the first place. I couldnt see the Celtic Tiger take too long to roar again with some of the product designers, inventers and marketeers that are on here at the helm.
"The real fool is the individual who cant understand the greatness of others." F Larmor
Great post RRHF. Too many people are glass half empty people. They are the ones who will still be paying a mortgage when in their mid 50s and grumbling about people like Jobs not being that good. He and others at apple are obvious genius'.
I don't think too many are begrudging, a bit of perspective would be nice. He made billions from making shiny gadgets.
EC and RRHF have it nailed on. Very easy to run achievements down but Apples are on a scale that only a handful reach.
Should also be noted that jobs went beyond apple. Pixar was largely down to him after he changed the whole dynamics of the company. They say it never had a flop since and it was due to how he changed people's perceptions and relationship in the comany.
He can also be credited for mentoring the google creators.
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on October 06, 2011, 07:02:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 06, 2011, 05:38:15 PM
Henry Ford didn't invent the car, but he did a lot of ensure that everyone could have one.
Steve Jobs brought technology to the masses.
Ford developed a production line that helped mass produce cars to help bring the cost down to a more affordable level for a lot of people. Jobs was different in that Apple products had (and still do) a price premium attached to it and never really focused on major mass production to satisfy budget end technology, and in doing so made more money per unit than manufacturers making budget-end products that were being sold of a third or quarter of the price. Michael O'Leary would be a much better comparison to Ford than Jobs was.
`
Spot on & must be said Jobs was a marketing genius, certainly one that could sell snow to the Eskimos & Sand to the Arabs.
Steve Jones?
Never heard tell of him until today ...................
And I have an Iphone 4 !
As others have mentioned, it was Benz and Daimler that invented the automobile but it took Henry Ford to bring it to the masses. Without Jobs and Woz it would have taken a whole lot longer for you to have the easy-to-use computer that you're now sitting at typing your dismissal of his contribution. If you're pissing on Jobs' legacy via a graphical user interface then I'm sure he'd get a good laugh at the irony of that if he were to see it. And that includes if you're sitting at a Windows machine, remember? MS stole the GUI idea from Apple?*
I can't believe someone posted that Apple were always playing catchup to other tech companies. Apple led the way in:
- Use of the GUI
- Standardized GUIs in all application software (remember when it was revolutionary to have the pull-down menus in the same place in every program starting with File and Edit? Took PC makers a while to realize that this was a good idea.)
- User-friendly WYSIWYG graphic design and desktop publishing software
- Product design (remember after the first iMac came out, suddenly all the PC manufacturers started trying to use translucent coloured casings and failing miserably to achieve the same effect? Notice how all mobile phones are now trying to look like iPhones? Notice how all tablets are now trying to look like iPads?)
- Inclusion of CD drives as storage devices issued as standard
- Use of the floppy disk as standard
- Abandonment of the floppy disk with the first iMac (remember how everyone thought they were mad? Hands up how many people use floppy disks now?)
- USB
- An MP3 player that you can actually use without being a computer expert
- Smartphones (remember when a Blackberry with its keyboard looked high tech? Or when all phones were flip-phones with tiny screens? That wasn't so long ago.)
- A tablet computer that you can use for casual web and media use without being a computer expert
To dismiss Apple's achievements as "just" improving on existing technology is completely missing the point. The lad in Detroit who invented intermittent wipers was "just" rearranging existing electronic components that had been invented by other people. It was the way they were arranged and the benefit to the consumer that added value to it. Charles Dickens didn't invent the word "It", the word "was", "the", "best", "of", or "times" but his arrangement of them added value.
And some in the open source software movement have a big problem with Apple's centralized control of software. Well you know what? The fact that there's a Kremlin-like organization in Cupertino making sure that stuff works before it appears on Apple devices is a good thing! There's a reason why Apple hardware and software is so much more reliable than any of that Windoze "blue screen of death" shit. And it costs a little more because it's worth it. You're welcome to save a few hundred dollars and get yourself some HP contraption running Windoze but you'd better make sure and have some money in reserve and plenty of spare time for the inevitable wrangling with tech support to get the damn thing working. I just took delivery of a new iMac the other day and instead of wasting my time installing drivers, security patches and Christ-knows-what-all I just got stuck into editing some video.
"Sucker" you say? How many times have you had to reboot your PC over the years? How many irreplaceable hours have you lost on the phone to tech support? Call me a "sucker" or "fanboy" all you like. I've been using Apple stuff since the 1980s as well as PCs, Linux and Unix. Apple is by far the most advanced and the best solution for anyone who just wants to get shit done. I've had one or two bad experiences, particularly towards the end of a computer of phone's life, but in general my experiences with Apple's products has been positive. Sure they fell a little bit behind in the 90s (when Jobs was absent, oddly enough) but other than that they have been consistently ahead of the game. Consistently.
Greedy? By all accounts Jobs actually did plenty of charitable giving in his own way behind the scenes. Not as ostentatious or high profile as the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation** but he was no miser either. He wasn't driven by the accumulation of wealth, he wanted to change the world. And unlike a lot of the armchair experts posting on this thread he succeeded.
I really feel sorry for these "glass half empty" merchants who can't bring themselves to give credit where it's due. They remind me of the people at GAA meetings who shoot down innovative ideas because "oh that'll never work" or bitch about the cost of something but conveniently overlook its benefits. Jobs took risks and on occasion he got it wrong or came up with devices or services that didn't take off. For every iPhone or iPod there's a Cube computer that didn't capture the imagination or offer any major benefit to the user. But that's part of the creative destruction of business. Sometimes you have to push the envelope a little too far to see where the limits are.
I shudder to think what the world would be like without Apple. All computers would be terse, clunky, and unreliable. With Apple we have a place to go where we can shelter from all that. As someone who spends most of my working day on a computer I'm glad I have one that's actually pleasurable to use. I like the feel of the keyboard, even the noise the keys make. I like the user interface. I like the sensation of getting my work done without the sinister sensation at the back of my mind that something is going to go horribly wrong and I'm going to lose my hard work. I feel free to think about what I'm doing, not how I'm doing it. The difference between using a PC and using a Mac is like the difference between driving an old Lada and driving a new Ford Mondeo.
To hell with the cynics and begrudgers. Jobs will be up there with Brunel, Whittle, Edison and Marconi in the pantheon of engineers who changed the world. You can piss on his memory all you want, but I for one tip my hat to him.
---
*I know I know, they got the idea from Xerox, but Xerox had no means of exploiting it. It's be like Lotus cars making a breakthrough that would only benefit the aviation industry.
**That's not to knock Bill Gates, I think he does great work and a high profile foundation is just another way of doing philanthropy that works well for Gates.
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on October 06, 2011, 08:29:11 PM
I would say in technology terms, 2001 to 2006 seen more advances than 2006 to 2011 where more emphasis has been placed on usability.
Usability is kind of a big deal. I once had an old Samsung phone that could so some things my iPhone 4 can't. I could even read email on it, in theory. But I hated that old Samsung with a passion because of the futery and unfathomable user interface. All the technology and features in the world are useless if the user can't figure out how to get at them. Without usability then there won't be widespread uptake and the cost of such technology won't come down as a result.
You're obviously a technically minded person, and this is something that people like you don't always understand:
People buy benefits, not features.Clive Sinclair (a British pioneer of consumer electronics and computers) thought he was going to impress the world with the clever features and technology that went into his electric C5 vehicle, but it brought his mighty technology company to its knees because he didn't appreciate the difference between technical ingenuity and the public's need for the product to actually benefit them. Yes it was clever, but nobody wanted it because it was no use to them.
People don't care if the aerial protrudes or not, they don't care how many transistors are crammed into the chips inside, they don't care about how it's put together. They do care if it works and is easy to use.
When i were a lad back in the late seventies and early eighties the height of technology was
1. Headmaster in national school using a hand operated drum printer to copy sheets for the older students.
2. We got this tape recorder radio thing at home in about 1981 and had hours of fun listening to playback of my father cursing and blinding( we usually wound him up about breaking or losing something).
3. the " good radio" took five minutes to warm up before sound would happen.
4. I can truthfully say I never seen a color tv until 1980.
5. Our American cousins would marvel that we never seen a cassette player in a car, we were lucky to see the car.
6. Then in about 1983/84 a neighbor got a Sony Walkman and sure the girls were only dying to be with him, tape player that required replacement batteries and rewinding after playing the tape.
Today I can fart on top of Croagh Patrick and while it's still potent somebody in Durban or San Francisco can know about it via text. I am writing this while supposedly working on an iPad and will later go for a run while listening to the iPod, sometimes I wonder if it was better not having so much connectivity and information at the touch of a button.
Those lovely Westboro Baptist people are talking about picketing Jobs funeral, you know the God hates fags guys who picket soldiers funerals. How are they spreading this poison? by iPhone of course...
Quote@MargieJPhelpsMargiePhelps
God remembers he taught his neighbor to sin. #eternaltormentnow Westboro must picket funeral. MT @Pogue: Steve Jobs has died. Remembrances.
19 hours ago via Twitter for iPhone
Jobs managed to revolutionise arguably 4 industries and he did it without really inventing anything and along the way he made 8 billion dollars that's some epitaf for anyone.
I met Jobs once but I was to young to appreciate fully who he was and what he had and would achieve
Usability is a big deal
Especially women
http://stephenleahy.net/2008/12/22/electronic-gadgets-fuel-congo-rape-mines/
Coltan is a rare and extremely valuable metal used in cell phones, DVD players, computers, digital cameras, video games, vehicle air bags, and more. It has long been implicated as both the source of funding and primary cause of the ongoing conflict and extraordinary violence against women. "A friend mapped the locations of the mass rapes in the DRC and they correspond to coltan mining regions," she said.
This "blood coltan" — akin to blood diamonds — generates billions of dollars of sales every year for electronics manufacturers in rich countries and brings hundreds of millions of dollars to rebels and others who control the coltan-producing regions. Coltan is also produced in other countries, and the DRC's "blood coltan" is often transported to those countries to give it a sheen of conflict-free provenance.
Foxconn is Apple's outsourcer
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10182824
The deaths at Foxconn are being discussed by everyone here and people are keeping a macabre score of how many young people have leapt to their deaths. It's very sad. Yesterday Foxconn sent a letter to be signed by all employees, removing liability to the company should an employee die. It immunised them against law suits. There was an outcry in the Chinese media and today Foxconn withdrew the letter.
Quote from: seafoid on October 06, 2011, 09:36:37 PM
Usability is a big deal
Especially women
http://stephenleahy.net/2008/12/22/electronic-gadgets-fuel-congo-rape-mines/
Coltan is a rare and extremely valuable metal used in cell phones, DVD players, computers, digital cameras, video games, vehicle air bags, and more. It has long been implicated as both the source of funding and primary cause of the ongoing conflict and extraordinary violence against women. "A friend mapped the locations of the mass rapes in the DRC and they correspond to coltan mining regions," she said.
This "blood coltan" — akin to blood diamonds — generates billions of dollars of sales every year for electronics manufacturers in rich countries and brings hundreds of millions of dollars to rebels and others who control the coltan-producing regions. Coltan is also produced in other countries, and the DRC's "blood coltan" is often transported to those countries to give it a sheen of conflict-free provenance.
Foxconn is Apple's outsourcer
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10182824
The deaths at Foxconn are being discussed by everyone here and people are keeping a macabre score of how many young people have leapt to their deaths. It's very sad. Yesterday Foxconn sent a letter to be signed by all employees, removing liability to the company should an employee die. It immunised them against law suits. There was an outcry in the Chinese media and today Foxconn withdrew the letter.
A list of of some of Foxconn's customers
Acer Inc. (Taiwan)
Amazon.com (United States)
Apple Inc. (United States)
Asus (Taiwan)
ASRock (Taiwan)
Intel (United States)
Cisco (United States)
Hewlett-Packard (United States)
Dell (United States)
Nintendo (Japan)
Nokia (Finland)[17]
Microsoft (United States)
MSI (Taiwan)
Motorola (United States)
Sony Ericsson (Japan/Sweden)
Vizio (United States
Not really relevant to the thread ::)
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on October 06, 2011, 09:11:41 PM
You're trying far too hard to justify your own preferences and experiences as that being superior to all.
I don't have to try at all. I'm right. Anyone who disagrees is wrong. Fact.
QuoteApple were one of the first to use a GUI on their computers, but not thee first. So not truly innovative but a development.
They may not have invented all of the technology (they actually did invent a lot of the standard elements of the GUI such as scroll bars and so on) but they were the first to get it to market with a view to enabling "regular people" to use the power of the computer. That's what was innovative.
Quote* Standardised GUI is one that is worth recognising at a time when on other computer platforms standards were very loose. However this was an advantage within a more closed development circle.
What does that mean? Are you saying that they "only" were able to standardise their GUI because of the closed development circle? That's the point I'm making, stricter standards lead to better quality. And third party developers like Adobe and Microsoft (outside the closed development circle) then had to adhere to those standards.
Quote* Product design? Translucency? That's not really innovative, that is evolution of trends that come and go.
Incorrect. Product design is very important. It turned a computer into a fashion item as well as a useful tool. It was no longer the preserve of "geeks". It became a piece of equipment that looked at home in the living room and not like a filing cabinet with a screen that belongs in an office.
QuoteNot all phones now try to look like "iPhones" except for cheap Chinese knock offs, same for touch-screen tablets.
OK, then "almost" all. Happy now?
Quote* CD Drive thing? So? Again this was because Apple was a more close knit platform compared to the PC which was vastly more open, where people could decide then if a CD-ROM drive was worth it or not.
Apple demonstrated that it was useful, other PC makers followed suit. And yes, the closed development circle made it possible for them to do it, which is precisely my point.
Quote* The obsolescence of floppy discs? Arguably Apple jumped the gun a little bit, but it was a decision that was of no consequence to them in the long term. In any case electronic developments which required higher read/write times along with capacity meant that the floppy's days were to be soon numbered. It wasn't Apple that killed off floppy discs, but USB pen drives.
This is all completely incorrect. USB pen drives did not become affordable or widespread until long after the first iMac appeared. Apple decided that networking and the internet would make floppy disks obsolete, and they were right. It was a bold and visionary step that showed a good understanding of where the technology was going and how people were relating to it. The floppy disk persisted in the PC world long after it had been abandoned in the Appleverse.
Quote* Apple had no hand in the development of the USB standard. I'd say you're confusing that with with Firewire.
I didn't mean they developed it any more than they developed the CD. They were the first to adopt it as a standard feature on all of their computers and familiarize the consumer with it.
Quote* To say that you had to be a computer expert to operate an MP3 player before the first iPod came along is a bit insulting. If in 2000 you had a very basic competency in computer literacy a generic MP3 player was easy enough to work with and not really any more difficult to a CD player.
Your definition of "basic competency in computer literacy" seems to be a lot different from what the market thought, CD players were still the device of choice at the time of the iPod's launch and everyone wondered what Apple was playing at. If contemporary MP3 players were as easy to use as you claim then that market would have been a whole lot bigger at the time. It took Apple's knack for making things easy to encourage people to start using these devices in such big numbers that the CD became obsolete.
Let's not forget that there's more to "using" an MP3 player than just finding your song and pressing Play. You have to be able to buy music from somewhere, download it, pay for it, get it into your device, and then navigate to the song you want. Are you seriously telling me that it was easy to do before the iPod? I can assure you it wasn't, and even I didn't bother with it at the time.
Quote* Smartphones? One reason the first iPhone grabbed a lot of attention was that until it was announced and released, most mobile phones in the US market were very much second rate compared to those in Europe and many Americans were importing mobile phones intended for European and Asian markets which was contrary to how technology markets worked for other products. By 2007 Symbian was already well established even on mid-level phones (Mainly Nokia but also Sony Ericsson and Samsung) while RIM Blackberry hasn't changed it's full keyboard design and have had it copied by other manufacturers to this day.
And RM is a roaring success to this day? No, they've been downsizing like crazy. They axed 2000 jobs in July. They're trying to catch up with iPhone look-alikes, same as the rest of the industry. The iPhone was a ground-breaking leap-frog over the contemporary European and Japanese phones of which you speak. You can pick holes in the specific technology and chipsets and materials all you want, it is the user experience and the iPhone's seamless integration into the Appleverse that adds so much value to it. RM does not have the power to do that because it has no control over PC standards or what software gets shipped with every PC. Apple has absolute power to ensure that every Mac ships with software that will automatically synchronise and back up any iPhone or iPod that gets plugged into it.
Quote* Apple made the tablet fashionable. That's a +1 to them.
And making it fashionable makes it popular, making it affordable, making it widely adopted. That is a +15 million to them. They've effectively created the current tablet market and now have over three quarters of it sewn up.
Technology made advances accessible to technological people in 2001 to 2006 though Fionntamhnach - it made advances to the mass market between 2006 - 2011. The reason for this was it's usability and the fact that "the average joe" can use it.
The biggest thing about what apple did, in my opinion, was not the technology they used it was three pronged - marketing, branding and usability which kicked the ass of everything else.
Apple didn't invent 3g, broadband, wifi, mobile internet, touch screens, text messaging,social networking,apps etc etc but they made it much more usable and accessible to people. In the main they harnessed technology - not created it.
In my view apple is overpriced for the brand, they close themselves off from networks thus monopolising the market and driving price up, they break standards here, there and everywhere ,they seem to have created a cult of people who say everything they create is great when it's not and they make small advances in between versions to sell more so to some degree apple stuff irritates me. In saying all that though Jobs has radically changed the face of technology and for that personally I think he has to be admired.
I own an ipod but refuse to own an iphone due to all of the above however the ipad is sorely tempting me...
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 06, 2011, 08:41:24 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on October 06, 2011, 08:29:11 PM
I would say in technology terms, 2001 to 2006 seen more advances than 2006 to 2011 where more emphasis has been placed on usability.
Usability is kind of a big deal. I once had an old Samsung phone that could so some things my iPhone 4 can't. I could even read email on it, in theory. But I hated that old Samsung with a passion because of the futery and unfathomable user interface. All the technology and features in the world are useless if the user can't figure out how to get at them. Without usability then there won't be widespread uptake and the cost of such technology won't come down as a result.
You're obviously a technically minded person, and this is something that people like you don't always understand:
People buy benefits, not features.
Clive Sinclair (a British pioneer of consumer electronics and computers) thought he was going to impress the world with the clever features and technology that went into his electric C5 vehicle, but it brought his mighty technology company to its knees because he didn't appreciate the difference between technical ingenuity and the public's need for the product to actually benefit them. Yes it was clever, but nobody wanted it because it was no use to them.
People don't care if the aerial protrudes or not, they don't care how many transistors are crammed into the chips inside, they don't care about how it's put together. They do care if it works and is easy to use.
Ditto on the Samsung phone, talk about hype selling shíte. Thee biggest mistake I ever made re purchase of a consumer item, well I won't talk about the Bose companion speakers I bought, too embarrassed.
But usability is only one feature that has aided Apple in the consumer market, Apple has stood alone clear of all competition, at the top of every credible independent consumer satisfaction survey taken since the mid 90's. The criteria for that is much wider than just usability.
With desktops, the Macpro though is overkill for the consumer market, the lowest end MacPro sells for about $2500 but it includes a server processor which costs about $1200 to purchase as a separate.
There is nothing available between that and the MacMini and that's a big gap in the market.
If I were running things there, I´d do a better job ;D
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 06, 2011, 10:01:20 PM
Technology made advances accessible to technological people in 2001 to 2006 though Fionntamhnach - it made advances to the mass market between 2006 - 2011. The reason for this was it's usability and the fact that "the average joe" can use it.
The biggest thing about what apple did, in my opinion, was not the technology they used it was three pronged - marketing, branding and usability which kicked the ass of everything else.
Apple didn't invent 3g, broadband, wifi, mobile internet, touch screens, text messaging,social networking,apps etc etc but they made it much more usable and accessible to people. In the main they harnessed technology - not created it.
In my view apple is overpriced for the brand, they close themselves off from networks thus monopolising the market and driving price up, they break standards here, there and everywhere ,they seem to have created a cult of people who say everything they create is great when it's not and they make small advances in between versions to sell more so to some degree apple stuff irritates me. In saying all that though Jobs has radically changed the face of technology and for that personally I think he has to be admired.
I own an ipod but refuse to own an iphone due to all of the above however the ipad is sorely tempting me...
That really pisses me off. Anyone I know who had an iPhone 3 were singing its praises saying it would spell the end for any other type of phone, the same with the iPhone 4 and now again the same with the 4s. Is there really that much difference between each model?
Probably the wrong thread, but what makes the iPad so attractive?
Quote from: Main Street on October 06, 2011, 10:06:20 PM
With desktops, the Macpro though is overkill for the consumer market, the lowest end MacPro sells for about $2500 but it includes a server processor which costs about $1200 to purchase as a separate.
There is nothing available between that and the MacMini and that's a big gap in the market.
You can get a lot of processing power with an iMac like the one I just got. I got it to replace my laptop. I actually hated my Macbook for as long as I owned it. The hardware quality was crap, it actually fell apart. It had sharp edges that cut the shite out of my wrists when using it, I ended up filing one of them down to smooth it out. But then the plastic actually cracked and broke off. Eventually the hard disk kept filling up despite my best efforts to clear stuff out.
I was going to just get another laptop, but then I realised that since I got the iPhone and later the iPhone 4 my laptop has seldom moved from my desk since I do all my casual web surfing and emailing from the phone now. Might as well pay the same money but get twice the power if you're going to be sitting at the desk anyway.
Quote from: Mike Tyson on October 06, 2011, 10:13:26 PM
Probably the wrong thread, but what makes the iPad so attractive?
Go to an Apple store, pick one up, and play with it for a few minutes. You'll see. There's just something about the user experience that's hard to explain. I always get sorely tempted to buy every time I play with one and I have to set it down and leave.
Quote from: Mike Tyson on October 06, 2011, 10:13:26 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 06, 2011, 10:01:20 PM
Technology made advances accessible to technological people in 2001 to 2006 though Fionntamhnach - it made advances to the mass market between 2006 - 2011. The reason for this was it's usability and the fact that "the average joe" can use it.
The biggest thing about what apple did, in my opinion, was not the technology they used it was three pronged - marketing, branding and usability which kicked the ass of everything else.
Apple didn't invent 3g, broadband, wifi, mobile internet, touch screens, text messaging,social networking,apps etc etc but they made it much more usable and accessible to people. In the main they harnessed technology - not created it.
In my view apple is overpriced for the brand, they close themselves off from networks thus monopolising the market and driving price up, they break standards here, there and everywhere ,they seem to have created a cult of people who say everything they create is great when it's not and they make small advances in between versions to sell more so to some degree apple stuff irritates me. In saying all that though Jobs has radically changed the face of technology and for that personally I think he has to be admired.
I own an ipod but refuse to own an iphone due to all of the above however the ipad is sorely tempting me...
That really pisses me off. Anyone I know who had an iPhone 3 were singing its praises saying it would spell the end for any other type of phone, the same with the iPhone 4 and now again the same with the 4s. Is there really that much difference between each model?
Probably the wrong thread, but what makes the iPad so attractive?
There are subtle differences between each - some of which are very good but there is crap like going from a high powered and spec camera to an even higher powered one which won't be that different to people.
iPad is a fairly slick piece of kit. Maybe I've just been sucked in too but a few things about it impress me.
The Iphone revolutionised mobile technology however as Fionn said the android is starting to take over. To me it made mobile technology easier to use for people and now a lot of them know how to use it because the others are cheaper, and are also very usable, they'll move over. It will die down a lot in the next few years in my view but iTunes, macbooks and ipads are still highly sought after. Closing itunes the way they did to the non jailbroken ipod was very clever. (very annoying too as it made it a closed shop...)
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 06, 2011, 10:14:13 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 06, 2011, 10:06:20 PM
With desktops, the Macpro though is overkill for the consumer market, the lowest end MacPro sells for about $2500 but it includes a server processor which costs about $1200 to purchase as a separate.
There is nothing available between that and the MacMini and that's a big gap in the market.
You can get a lot of processing power with an iMac like the one I just got. I got it to replace my laptop.
The iMac is an all in one.
If you already have a decent 22" lcd screen, then you are buying something you don't need.
Of course there is the Macmini but there is nothing between the Macmini and the MacPro
that's a gap between the $900 to $2,500 price range and a gap in available technology which many users want and they don't get in the Macmini
I could put together a very potent desktop configuration for $1100 which would give the same user experience as the Macpro which goes for $2,500. The Macpro is configured to be a server with expensive stable long lasting server components.
i
Quote from: Main Street on October 06, 2011, 10:34:39 PM
If you already have a decent 22" lcd screen, then you are buying something you don't need.
I haven't owned a monitor for years, so the iMac makes sense for me.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 06, 2011, 10:45:25 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 06, 2011, 10:34:39 PM
If you already have a decent 22" lcd screen, then you are buying something you don't need.
I haven't owned a monitor for years, so the iMac makes sense for me.
Yes I know you exist, I acknowledge that you exist
but most probably there are a million out there who already have a monitor who would buy my configured desktop.
Wouldn't you if you had a decent monitor?
Quote from: Main Street on October 06, 2011, 10:52:36 PM
Yes I know you exist, I acknowledge that you exist
but most probably there are a million out there who already have a monitor who would buy my configured desktop.
Wouldn't you if you had a decent monitor?
Yes.
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on October 06, 2011, 10:46:04 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 06, 2011, 10:01:20 PM
Technology made advances accessible to technological people in 2001 to 2006 though Fionntamhnach - it made advances to the mass market between 2006 - 2011. The reason for this was it's usability and the fact that "the average joe" can use it.
The only problem is that Joe doesn't really exist. There are focus groups that those involved in marketing and advertising look upon for their products. Apple have done this well though, but that would ignore the usability that Nokia and to a similar extent Sony Ericsson made in the first half of that decade themselves.
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 06, 2011, 10:01:20 PMThe biggest thing about what apple did, in my opinion, was not the technology they used it was three pronged - marketing, branding and usability which kicked the ass of everything else.
Very much the case. The only downside to it is, and I really don't like using this word, is that Apple drove up to hyper levels the meaning of the word "fanboys". Now that I've said it, I won't say it again.
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 06, 2011, 10:01:20 PMApple didn't invent 3g, broadband, wifi, mobile internet, touch screens, text messaging,social networking,apps etc etc but they made it much more usable and accessible to people. In the main they harnessed technology - not created it.
I already said that Jobs had the knack of putting pieces together that worked very well, but it would ridiculous to say that they had no contemporaries that also pushed it the same way.
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 06, 2011, 10:01:20 PMIn my view apple is overpriced for the brand, they close themselves off from networks thus monopolising the market and driving price up, they break standards here, there and everywhere ,they seem to have created a cult of people who say everything they create is great when it's not and they make small advances in between versions to sell more so to some degree apple stuff irritates me. In saying all that though Jobs has radically changed the face of technology and for that personally I think he has to be admired.
Like him or loathe him I agree that Jobs has left an almighty impact on technology in the 21st century. I was never annoyed by him unlike some people, he was very good at what he did but what I saw him do best was be a businessman, not an artist.
I would agree with pretty much all of what you say there - businessman more than technological genius.
The "average joe" thing was perhaps a little misguided. The mass market, in my view, had been won over by the marketing of the ipod and the iphone was just building on that. It still had to be done well though and it was.
It's odd the way some people choose to deride those who use Apple products.
I use both. I use a Macbook and a standard Compaq laptop. At work it's a similar story. I also own an iPhone and use my wife's Blackberry as well as another crappyish Nokia. For simplicity of use I find Apple products appealing. It's just a personal choice. I know the likes of Photoshop or basic Word should not really differ over both platforms yet for some reason I prefer using both on the Macbook. Keyboard? Visual appeal? I don't know. It just does it for me.
If Jobs was still here and announced that tomorrow Apple would be launching the iCar. Would you:
a) ignore it;
b) research it with an open mind;
c) find out how to book one immediately;
In the 1990s it was alway a). From 2000 to 2006 I became a b). Now I am probably closer to c).
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2011, 11:42:19 PM
If Jobs was still here and announced that tomorrow Apple would be launching the iCar. Would you:
a) ignore it;
b) research it with an open mind;
c) find out how to book one immediately;
In the 1990s it was alway a). From 200o to 2006 I became a b). Now I am probably closer to c).
d) Wait until the second version and even then wait for others to try it out first.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 06, 2011, 11:55:57 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 06, 2011, 11:42:19 PM
If Jobs was still here and announced that tomorrow Apple would be launching the iCar. Would you:
a) ignore it;
b) research it with an open mind;
c) find out how to book one immediately;
In the 1990s it was alway a). From 200o to 2006 I became a b). Now I am probably closer to c).
d) Wait until the second version and even then wait for others to try it out first.
That would be a b) then.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 06, 2011, 08:41:24 PM
You're obviously a technically minded person, and this is something that people like you don't always understand
Oh Christ!
I've just had a deja vu of 1,000 meetings with marketing types.
QuotePeople buy benefits, not features.
Where's that bucket.
Quote from: Hardy on October 07, 2011, 12:57:18 AM
Where's that bucket.
Here:
(http://cultofmac.cultofmaccom.netdna-cdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/apple_sales_chart.png)
Quote from: Hardy on October 07, 2011, 12:57:18 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 06, 2011, 08:41:24 PM
You're obviously a technically minded person, and this is something that people like you don't always understand
Oh Christ!
I've just had a deja vu of 1,000 meetings with marketing types.
QuotePeople buy benefits, not features.
Where's that bucket.
Its called
'trash' by us non-technically minded people. You wouldn't understand. ;D
Quote from: muppet on October 07, 2011, 01:12:41 AM
Its called 'trash' by us non-technically minded people.
Are you saying yanks aren't technically minded? Racialist! ;D
...
Are you okay?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMz_RQuTBlI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMz_RQuTBlI)
Seriously, though, Fionntamhnach, those comments annoyed me too and they weren't even directed at me.
Anyway, due respect to the dead, but since I doubt his family will be looking in here, I feel able to say the Jobs hysteria is reaching Diana Spencer proportions now. Today's Examiner has an editorial describing Jobs as "one of the greatest, if not the greatest hero of the age". The disturbing thing is they may be right. The heroes of other ages were explorers, scientists, writers, soldiers and astronauts. It's probably appropriate that the greatest hero of the communications age is a salesman.
The Irish Times does WTF very well
He made massive demands on his staff to meet the goals he set them, but was said to be fiercely loyal to those who he felt delivered for the Apple corporation. Staff who he felt lacked loyalty, or talked to the media, were dismissed on the spot.
US president Barack Obama said: "there may be no greater tribute to Steves success than the fact that much of the world learned of his passing on a device he invented".
This led me to thinking about the person who invented the coffin -it must have been incredible when he or she was buried in the device they had invented.
:D :D
Interesting piece here - http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2011/10/steve-jobs-disability/ (http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2011/10/steve-jobs-disability/)
QuoteIt's probably appropriate that the greatest hero of the communications age is a salesman.
Nicely put - particularly given what's happening across the world these days
Quote from: ONeill on October 06, 2011, 11:03:08 PM
It's odd the way some people choose to deride those who use Apple products.
I use both. I use a Macbook and a standard Compaq laptop. At work it's a similar story. I also own an iPhone and use my wife's Blackberry as well as another crappyish Nokia. For simplicity of use I find Apple products appealing. It's just a personal choice. I know the likes of Photoshop or basic Word should not really differ over both platforms yet for some reason I prefer using both on the Macbook. Keyboard? Visual appeal? I don't know. It just does it for me.
And vice versa. I find it amusing the zealots on both sides. At the end of the day, who gives a shite? If it is easy to use, has cool features and looks good, I'll use it no matter if it says Apple, Dell, Blackberry or Nokia on it. Who cares? It's the information you are using it for that's important at the end of the day. All of these are just tools to create/view it.
Jesus lads will yiz calm down? I'm not trying to lower the tone of the conversation at all. Someone posted something about "marketing types" and a "bucket" which I could have taken personally since technically I work in a marketing department but I'm not going to blow a gasket over a comment on an internet message board.
All I said was people proficient in engineering don't always understand marketing, marketing types don't always understand engineering, and I'm seeing hints of it in this discussion. This is the kind of thing people in silicon valley talk openly about all the time because the place is built on understanding the extent and the limits of other peoples' skills. If you interpreted that as some sort of deeply hurtful personal insult then that's not what I intended and I apologize, but I don't apologize for making the observation about how Jobs was able to bridge the usual gap between the two world views and that's what got him such good results. Is that fair enough?
I think I'm going to sue the government of the United States. I spent 4 full years over there, and for some reason I still *don't* know everything.
Excellent, AZ. For once, ROFLMAO is almost justified.
Eamonnca1 I agree with a lot of what you say, though in terms of some of the impact had with USB etc id think you are pushing it a little - apple always charged more for their machines and anyone willing to buy a pc at the same pricepoint at the time would have been expecting to get a couple of usb ports.
Apple have also been happy to go a bit propriety even with USB.
Also the reason they can claim good resilience for mac os is that its based on BSD - they didnt create their own OS completely.
Jobs focused on refining the things he liked and having the balls to drop the things he didnt - few other people would have stood against flash as he has, though whether that was the right decision remains to be seen (in the long run i think it will be though i dont agree with not supporting it now)
We do not measure a culture by its output of undisguised trivialities but by what it claims as significant."
― Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death: Public Discourse in the Age of Show Business
Quote from: seafoid on October 07, 2011, 11:27:30 AM
We do not measure a culture by its output of undisguised trivialities but by what it claims as significant."
― Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death: Public Discourse in the Age of Show Business
Discuss: (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/11RwoIxBdrL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
There are some interesting arguments on both sides, and no doubt we have some very qualified award winning people on her in terms of marketing, web designing and technological research, so Ill tread quietly here! I dont think it would be wrong to say that Jobs comparatively was in a different planet in terms of akills, abilities and achievements as notable as talented as we are, and may I see good to see it. This year science will tell us something that next year will be challenged and refuted. 15 years ago the GAA public were GAA people, supporters, volunteers and owners, now they are patrons. The world keep turning and another ifone will come out.
We should not infer his passing as almost an integral part of an apple marketing plan. People like Jobs are wealth creators and brilliant business men and marketeers and are bullies and are kind, and are creative and have engineering heads and have egos and are human and they live and they die. They are great for the world and they have a nuclear ability to deliver for themselves and others. Jobs wasnt a god type figure yet Im sure he enjoyed the adulation of his product fans. But whether it be a business Dragon thinking he is cut out for president, or a eurovision singer running for president, or a famous actor becoming president in the states, everyone likes to be famous and to be liked and to use their profile to gain more out of and expand their life. Jobs was the same. No shame in that. Im happy for him to be called a genius because I like people who can do what he did. I wish there were more.
Quote from: muppet on October 07, 2011, 11:31:54 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 07, 2011, 11:27:30 AM
We do not measure a culture by its output of undisguised trivialities but by what it claims as significant."
― Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death: Public Discourse in the Age of Show Business
Discuss: (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/11RwoIxBdrL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
"One way of looking at the history of the human group is that it has been a continuing struggle against the veneration of "crap." ― Neil Postman
I wish our postman was as interesting as yours.
Quote from: nifan on October 07, 2011, 09:44:34 AM
Eamonnca1 I agree with a lot of what you say, though in terms of some of the impact had with USB etc id think you are pushing it a little - apple always charged more for their machines and anyone willing to buy a pc at the same pricepoint at the time would have been expecting to get a couple of usb ports.
generalizing, tut tut ;D
If you compare cost of devices that have equivalent component parts,
some Apple devices are cheaper than a comparative competitor,
some are similarly priced,
and some are more expensive.
QuoteAlso the reason they can claim good resilience for mac os is that its based on BSD - they didn't create their own OS completely.
Some people think that Steve Jobs spent his time overseeing Apple Corporation during the day and his evenings/ night time inventing everything that Apple use. He has been compared to Michelangelo no less.
But he's no Larry Reilly.
(http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/318669_2384275733993_1463746058_4244831_1065961010_n.jpg)
Quote from: seafoid on October 07, 2011, 11:27:30 AM
We do not measure a culture by its output of undisguised trivialities but by what it claims as significant."
― Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death: Public Discourse in the Age of Show Business
Your so well read and intelligent.....
Quote from: Main Street on October 07, 2011, 12:19:16 PM
generalizing, tut tut ;D
If you compare cost of devices that have equivalent component parts,
some Apple devices are cheaper than a comparative competitor,
some are similarly priced,
and some are more expensive.
You are correct - it was clumsy on my part - I meant that they didnt sell the cheaper equivalents that other companies did - the similar spec machines to the apple products would have had usb etc
Quote from: thebigfella on October 07, 2011, 01:07:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 07, 2011, 11:27:30 AM
We do not measure a culture by its output of undisguised trivialities but by what it claims as significant."
― Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death: Public Discourse in the Age of Show Business
Your so well read and intelligent.....
Are you being consciously ironic?
Hardy, I was waiting for you to jump in there :)
Quote from: Hardy on October 07, 2011, 02:03:38 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on October 07, 2011, 01:07:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 07, 2011, 11:27:30 AM
We do not measure a culture by its output of undisguised trivialities but by what it claims as significant."
― Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death: Public Discourse in the Age of Show Business
Your so well read and intelligent.....
Are you being consciously ironic?
Not sure, Alanis Morissette has confused my understanding of irony :P
I don't understand this idea the jobs was merely a salesman. He was truly an innovator who changed the music industry, the pc industry, to an extent the movie industry and telephone industry. No mere sales man could have achieved that.
Good thread and I think the man himself would be chuffed with the conflicting contributions. Jobs was brilliant at foreseeing and marketing the next big gadget and I take my hat off to him here. When the iPad first came out I couldn't see the appeal of it but having used one you suddenly want to take one home. Macs are also worth the extra money, especially if you're doing digital media work. That said I'm not really an Apple fan. Their software irks me. I don't like iTunes, synching, the way that people call MP3 players iPod's/androids phones as iPhones (brilliant marketing though to have achieved this), Apple only accessories, etc. If he was a GAA player he'd be Brian Dooher.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on October 07, 2011, 03:38:51 PM
Their software irks me. I don't like iTunes, synching, the way that people call MP3 players iPod's/androids phones as iPhones (brilliant marketing though to have achieved this), Apple only accessories, etc. If he was a GAA player he'd be Brian Dooher.
iTunes is a music library and a gateway to the iPod and apple store consumerism. I have all Apple Store related features disabled.
For what it is good at, organizing a music library, iTunes is more than adequate.
The feature to Sync selected recordings to the iPod is a neat affair when you have a large library and you use playlist folders or have your music library sorted into genres. When you have a 110gb music library on a small iPod, you want to navigate through it with ease.
That ease is helped greatly when you sync selected music, already sorted out in playlist folders in iTunes, then with one click in iPod you get to the genre/playlist folder you want
Once you have done this once, you don't have to sync ever again, you can simply manually manage your music.
So the sync feature is a desirable feature for the (cough .. splutter) discerning iPlodder. That counts out Hardy for sure :)
iTunes doesn't do flac, that's an inconvenience, as most of my downloads are flac lossless files. So I use XLD to convert to Apple lossless.
Having some regular contact with audiophiles who are fanatic about analogue but also about maintaining a digital music library on their computer in lossless quality, I find many of them are quite okay about about iPod and iTunes.
Some want better tagging ability of id tags, some use other music library software. Some use iTunes as a library but use different players, possibly because they listen a lot to 24bit music. iTunes will play 24bit recordings, however it does´t sync automatically with your input/output setting, you would have to change your audio settings manually to listen to it at the correct 24bit/96.000Hz settings.
Quote from: Main Street on October 07, 2011, 04:20:14 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on October 07, 2011, 03:38:51 PM
Their software irks me. I don't like iTunes, synching, the way that people call MP3 players iPod's/androids phones as iPhones (brilliant marketing though to have achieved this), Apple only accessories, etc. If he was a GAA player he'd be Brian Dooher.
iTunes is a music library and a gateway to the iPod and apple store consumerism. I have all Apple Store related features disabled.
For what it is good at, organizing a music library, iTunes is more than adequate.
The feature to Sync selected recordings to the iPod is a neat affair when you have a large library and you use playlist folders or have your music library sorted into genres. When you have a 110gb music library on a small iPod, you want to navigate through it with ease.
That ease is helped greatly when you sync selected music, already sorted out in playlist folders in iTunes, then with one click in iPod you get to the genre/playlist folder you want
Once you have done this once, you don't have to sync ever again, you can simply manually manage your music.
So the sync feature is a desirable feature for the (cough .. splutter) discerning iPlodder. That counts out Hardy for sure :)
iTunes doesn't do flac, that's an inconvenience, as most of my downloads are flac lossless files. So I use XLD to convert to Apple lossless.
Having some regular contact with audiophiles who are fanatic about analogue but also about maintaining a digital music library on their computer in lossless quality, I find many of them are quite okay about about iPod and iTunes.
Some want better tagging ability of id tags, some use other music library software. Some use iTunes as a library but use different players, possibly because they listen a lot to 24bit music. iTunes will play 24bit recordings, however it does´t sync automatically with your input/output setting, you would have to change your audio settings manually to listen to it at the correct 24bit/96.000Hz settings.
I'm gonna get a jukebox.
Some of us are not old enough to remember those days
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQMAZEXrUgXv456eQu9POfyjcZAiX9ygGMwAMyP50g8yIQHoEgP)
I had an ipod for a time and i used itunes to upgrade the firmware when i first got it then never used it again.
Used amarok (on linux) for the syncing
QuoteI had an ipod for a time and i used itunes to upgrade the firmware when i first got it then never used it again.
Used amarok (on linux) for the syncing
See how flexible the iPod is,
and software developers on other platforms can copy the features of iTunes and other music library applications and incorporate them into their own application.
Quote from: Hardy on October 07, 2011, 09:10:02 AM
:D :D
I can see Steve Jobs style i-labour relations going down really well at the Irish Times.
What a joke.
http://www.dragosroua.com/
I thought I would share this post mortem interview with Steve that I found while browsing
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-_49V7VhkjPU/To3z9k4AMII/AAAAAAAACJk/ovHh2o4k1OA/s1024/0Vv1j%2B%25281%2529.jpg)
http://gawker.com/5847344/what-everyone-is-too-polite-to-say-about-steve-jobs (http://gawker.com/5847344/what-everyone-is-too-polite-to-say-about-steve-jobs)
A different slant on it.
Quote from: Main Street on October 07, 2011, 06:28:16 PM
QuoteI had an ipod for a time and i used itunes to upgrade the firmware when i first got it then never used it again.
Used amarok (on linux) for the syncing
See how flexible the iPod is,
and software developers on other platforms can copy the features of iTunes and other music library applications and incorporate them into their own application.
Well I think the gtkpod library was reverse engineered - apple didnt share the spec freely - i didnt think they did still, but I havent checked as i no longer have an ipod.
The 80gb ipod was the best player at the time no doubt about it.
(http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/297884_10150347113863028_297916183027_8014622_1069408183_n.jpg)