Carál ní Chuilín made history by being the first PSF politician to attend a norn irn game last night. No mention of it on the norn irn supporters website (http://www.ourweecountry.co.uk/), not even in their 'trooping the colours' section.
Is there an unstoopable level left?
Quote from: Cáthasaigh on August 11, 2011, 01:14:55 PM
Carál ní Chuilín made history by being the first PSF politician to attend a norn irn game last night. No mention of it on the norn irn supporters website (http://www.ourweecountry.co.uk/), not even in their 'trooping the colours' section.
Is there an unstoopable level left?
Is it that big a deal? She was probably disappointed there was no reaction to her presence.
Plenty of talk behind the paywall.
Shinner goes to soccer match...in my experience, not news. It's a widely held misconception that all Shinners are GAA people.
Quote from: AQMP on August 11, 2011, 01:48:03 PM
Shinner goes to soccer match...in my experience, not news. It's a widely held misconception that all Shinners are GAA people.
"Widely held" ? ?
Quote from: AQMP on August 11, 2011, 01:48:03 PM
Shinner goes to soccer match...in my experience, not news. It's a widely held misconception that all Shinners are GAA people.
Always thought they were best suited to soccer.
Quote from: Minder on August 11, 2011, 01:51:17 PM
Quote from: AQMP on August 11, 2011, 01:48:03 PM
Shinner goes to soccer match...in my experience, not news. It's a widely held misconception that all Shinners are GAA people.
"Widely held" ? ?
You're right, on second thoughts maybe I should have added "down my street" or "among non-GAA people"
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 11, 2011, 02:42:08 PM
Quote from: AQMP on August 11, 2011, 01:48:03 PM
Shinner goes to soccer match...in my experience, not news. It's a widely held misconception that all Shinners are GAA people.
Always thought they were best suited to soccer.
Hmmm that must be why Republican areas like Crossmaglen, Bellaghy, Carrickmore, Galbally etc are such hotbeds of soccer alright ::)
How's England?
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 11, 2011, 03:03:19 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 11, 2011, 02:42:08 PM
Quote from: AQMP on August 11, 2011, 01:48:03 PM
Shinner goes to soccer match...in my experience, not news. It's a widely held misconception that all Shinners are GAA people.
Always thought they were best suited to soccer.
Hmmm that must be why Republican areas like Crossmaglen, Bellaghy, Carrickmore, Galbally etc are such hotbeds of soccer alright
::)
How's England?
West Belfast.
Quote from: Minder on August 11, 2011, 03:09:50 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 11, 2011, 03:03:19 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 11, 2011, 02:42:08 PM
Quote from: AQMP on August 11, 2011, 01:48:03 PM
Shinner goes to soccer match...in my experience, not news. It's a widely held misconception that all Shinners are GAA people.
Always thought they were best suited to soccer.
Hmmm that must be why Republican areas like Crossmaglen, Bellaghy, Carrickmore, Galbally etc are such hotbeds of soccer alright
::)
How's England?
West Belfast.
Indeed.... a bastion of soccer success. Unlike in GAA. What the f**k have St Galls ever won!!
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 11, 2011, 03:14:54 PM
Quote from: Minder on August 11, 2011, 03:09:50 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 11, 2011, 03:03:19 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 11, 2011, 02:42:08 PM
Quote from: AQMP on August 11, 2011, 01:48:03 PM
Shinner goes to soccer match...in my experience, not news. It's a widely held misconception that all Shinners are GAA people.
Always thought they were best suited to soccer.
Hmmm that must be why Republican areas like Crossmaglen, Bellaghy, Carrickmore, Galbally etc are such hotbeds of soccer alright
::)
How's England?
West Belfast.
Indeed.... a bastion of soccer success. Unlike in GAA. What the f**k have St Galls ever won!!
Nothing to do with "success", go up the Falls Road on a Saturday morning and see how many youngsters and adults are on their way to play in soccer leagues. Also see how many youngsters are wearing Gaa tops and how many are wearing soccer tops, it wouldn't even be close. A major reason why plenty of teams in West Belfast are struggling. Go into a bar on the Falls Road when Man Utd are playing and you would hardly get in the door, when St Galls were in the club final last year i went into a bar on the Falls Road to watch it and i had to ask them to turn it on, i was the only one watching it, they put it on a small tv mind as
Cheltenham was on the bigger tvs.
And I've been on the Falls enough to have seen more antrim shirts than manchester united ones. Maybe thats all down to perception but either way it doesn't back up any claim that SF supporters are more suited to soccer. If that were the case, a county like Tyrone would be full of soccer clubs. Come to any Republican area of Tyrone for example, to somewhere like Carrickmore or Galbally or Greencastle and try spot people walking around in soccer shirts. Bring a flask of tay while you're at it... you could be waiting a while.
Well we go to the Cultúrlann most weekends for lunch and without fail the most popular jersey on show on the road is that of the Shamrock Rovers soccer team, at least I think it's Shamrock Rovers, could be some foreign team mind you.
Quote from: Ulick on August 11, 2011, 03:51:39 PM
Well we go to the Cultúrlann most weekends for lunch and without fail the most popular jersey on show on the road is that of the Shamrock Rovers soccer team, at least I think it's Shamrock Rovers, could be some foreign team mind you.
You do know Celtic are a soccer team?
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 11, 2011, 03:43:06 PM
And I've been on the Falls enough to have seen more antrim shirts than manchester united ones. Maybe thats all down to perception but either way it doesn't back up any claim that SF supporters are more suited to soccer. If that were the case, a county like Tyrone would be full of soccer clubs. Come to any Republican area of Tyrone for example, to somewhere like Carrickmore or Galbally or Greencastle and try spot people walking around in soccer shirts. Bring a flask of tay while you're at it... you could be waiting a while.
No harm to you Nally but i have never seen that.
Quote from: Minder on August 11, 2011, 03:57:22 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 11, 2011, 03:43:06 PM
And I've been on the Falls enough to have seen more antrim shirts than manchester united ones. Maybe thats all down to perception but either way it doesn't back up any claim that SF supporters are more suited to soccer. If that were the case, a county like Tyrone would be full of soccer clubs. Come to any Republican area of Tyrone for example, to somewhere like Carrickmore or Galbally or Greencastle and try spot people walking around in soccer shirts. Bring a flask of tay while you're at it... you could be waiting a while.
No harm to you Nally but i have never seen that.
Maybe they're hiding from you! Bloody spides!
Quote from: Minder on August 11, 2011, 01:37:25 PM
Is it that big a deal? She was probably disappointed there was no reaction to her presence.
Check out the supporter website and consider the significance. Next up shinners attending the 12th.
Quote from: Cáthasaigh on August 11, 2011, 05:07:16 PM
Check out the supporter website and consider the significance. Next up shinners attending the 12th.
Did you look behind the paywall?
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 11, 2011, 03:03:19 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 11, 2011, 02:42:08 PM
Quote from: AQMP on August 11, 2011, 01:48:03 PM
Shinner goes to soccer match...in my experience, not news. It's a widely held misconception that all Shinners are GAA people.
Always thought they were best suited to soccer.
Hmmm that must be why Republican areas like Crossmaglen, Bellaghy, Carrickmore, Galbally etc are such hotbeds of soccer alright ::)
How's England?
:D England's great thanks, tend to avoid the bars fully of SF supporters in watching the Old Firm and the Super Sundays. Nothing wrong with Soccer, sure SF might enter a team in a British league soon, O wait Glasgow Celtic ;D Funny, I know SDLP folk who play and support the GAA.
(Republican does
not = SF)
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 11, 2011, 05:51:17 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 11, 2011, 03:03:19 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 11, 2011, 02:42:08 PM
Quote from: AQMP on August 11, 2011, 01:48:03 PM
Shinner goes to soccer match...in my experience, not news. It's a widely held misconception that all Shinners are GAA people.
Always thought they were best suited to soccer.
Hmmm that must be why Republican areas like Crossmaglen, Bellaghy, Carrickmore, Galbally etc are such hotbeds of soccer alright ::)
How's England?
:D England's great thanks, tend to avoid the bars fully of SF supporters in watching the Old Firm and the Super Sundays. Nothing wrong with Soccer, sure SF might enter a team in a British league soon, O wait Glasgow Celtic ;D
Celtic? I'd have thought that club was more like the SDLP?
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/49880000/jpg/_49880304_celticappeal_snsb466.jpg) (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_U3AFcmliXss/TOQMSOnODRI/AAAAAAAAAcM/Iu9Tiqxo0hc/s400/ritchie%2Bpoppy.jpg)
As for your claim that there is nothing wrong with soccer.... each to their own. Personally I'd rather watch paint dry than watch teams of over paid posers spend an hour and a half running around a pitch not scoring anything and falling over when another player comes within touching distance.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 11, 2011, 05:51:17 PM
(Republican does not = SF)
(Republican most definitely does
not = FG)
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 11, 2011, 06:08:18 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 11, 2011, 05:51:17 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 11, 2011, 03:03:19 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 11, 2011, 02:42:08 PM
Quote from: AQMP on August 11, 2011, 01:48:03 PM
Shinner goes to soccer match...in my experience, not news. It's a widely held misconception that all Shinners are GAA people.
Always thought they were best suited to soccer.
Hmmm that must be why Republican areas like Crossmaglen, Bellaghy, Carrickmore, Galbally etc are such hotbeds of soccer alright ::)
How's England?
:D England's great thanks, tend to avoid the bars fully of SF supporters in watching the Old Firm and the Super Sundays. Nothing wrong with Soccer, sure SF might enter a team in a British league soon, O wait Glasgow Celtic ;D
Celtic? I'd have thought that club was more like the SDLP?
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/49880000/jpg/_49880304_celticappeal_snsb466.jpg) (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_U3AFcmliXss/TOQMSOnODRI/AAAAAAAAAcM/Iu9Tiqxo0hc/s400/ritchie%2Bpoppy.jpg)
As for your claim that there is nothing wrong with soccer.... each to their own. Personally I'd rather watch paint dry than watch teams of over paid posers spend an hour and a half running around a pitch not scoring anything and falling over when another player comes within touching distance.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 11, 2011, 05:51:17 PM
(Republican does not = SF)
(Republican most definitely does not = FG) You clearly have no idea what a Republican is. ::)
Not a huge soccerhead myself, just find it funny the people I meet in Liverpool from the 6 counties who claim to be Shinners and when their county or other football and hurling teams are playing they choose the Old Firm or Supersunday everytime.
Following his wonder goal, hundreds of Are We A Country fans have asked Paddy McCourt for their bullets back, signed if possible
Wonder goal?? The chip over the keeper was a great bit of skill, but waltzing past a couple of Faroe Is defenders does not for me a wonder goal make!
:D Aye it's hard to beat a generalisation isn't it! Funny I met a handful of dubs on my travels in recent years, two of whom were FGers and neither of whom would know what a hurl or an O'Neills was if one was set in their hands so if you don't mind, I might just use your logic.... I hereby assume FGers are all more suited to soccer than GAA.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 11, 2011, 06:13:36 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 11, 2011, 06:08:18 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 11, 2011, 05:51:17 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 11, 2011, 03:03:19 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 11, 2011, 02:42:08 PM
Quote from: AQMP on August 11, 2011, 01:48:03 PM
Shinner goes to soccer match...in my experience, not news. It's a widely held misconception that all Shinners are GAA people.
Always thought they were best suited to soccer.
Hmmm that must be why Republican areas like Crossmaglen, Bellaghy, Carrickmore, Galbally etc are such hotbeds of soccer alright ::)
How's England?
:D England's great thanks, tend to avoid the bars fully of SF supporters in watching the Old Firm and the Super Sundays. Nothing wrong with Soccer, sure SF might enter a team in a British league soon, O wait Glasgow Celtic ;D
Celtic? I'd have thought that club was more like the SDLP?
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/49880000/jpg/_49880304_celticappeal_snsb466.jpg) (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_U3AFcmliXss/TOQMSOnODRI/AAAAAAAAAcM/Iu9Tiqxo0hc/s400/ritchie%2Bpoppy.jpg)
As for your claim that there is nothing wrong with soccer.... each to their own. Personally I'd rather watch paint dry than watch teams of over paid posers spend an hour and a half running around a pitch not scoring anything and falling over when another player comes within touching distance.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 11, 2011, 05:51:17 PM
(Republican does not = SF)
(Republican most definitely does not = FG) You clearly have no idea what a Republican is. ::)
Not a huge soccerhead myself, just find it funny the people I meet in Liverpool from the 6 counties who claim to be Shinners and when their county or other football and hurling teams are playing they choose the Old Firm or Supersunday everytime.
I don't understand, can they not be shinners if they'd rather watch soccer over football or hurling?
No you see what he is saying is, he reckons he know a few SFers in England who prefer watching soccer to GAA and he is therefor claiming that SFers in general are "best suited to soccer".
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 11, 2011, 06:48:57 PM
No you see what he is saying is, he reckons he know a few SFers in England who prefer watching soccer to GAA and he is therefor claiming that SFers in general are "best suited to soccer".
;) Nice folk actually, but for the life of me I cannot understand them wearing those Celtic jersies, makes them look like a right bunch of skangers.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 11, 2011, 06:52:43 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 11, 2011, 06:48:57 PM
No you see what he is saying is, he reckons he know a few SFers in England who prefer watching soccer to GAA and he is therefor claiming that SFers in general are "best suited to soccer".
;) Nice folk actually, but for the life of me I cannot understand them wearing those Celtic jersies, makes them look like a right bunch of skangers.
[size=9]
MGHU IN "SHINNERS[/size]
[size=9]
ARE (http://www.southdownsinnfein.com/media/sm_sinn_fein_logo_copy3.jpg)
[/size]
[size=9]
NICE" SHOCKER!!!
[/size]
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 11, 2011, 07:05:33 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 11, 2011, 06:52:43 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 11, 2011, 06:48:57 PM
No you see what he is saying is, he reckons he know a few SFers in England who prefer watching soccer to GAA and he is therefor claiming that SFers in general are "best suited to soccer".
;) Nice folk actually, but for the life of me I cannot understand them wearing those Celtic jersies, makes them look like a right bunch of skangers.
[size=9]MGHU IN "SHINNERS
[/size]
[size=9]ARE (http://www.southdownsinnfein.com/media/sm_sinn_fein_logo_copy3.jpg)
[/size]
[size=9]NICE" SHOCKER!!!
[/size]
Will that be in An Phoblacht this week? ;D A Nally, its good to see you do have a sense of humour ;)
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 11, 2011, 07:05:33 PM
[size=9]MGHU IN "SHINNERS
[/size]
[size=9]ARE (http://www.southdownsinnfein.com/media/sm_sinn_fein_logo_copy3.jpg)
[/size]
[size=9]NICE" SHOCKER!!!
[/size]
If the likes of MGHU thinks that 'shinners are nice' it's indicative of how far they have stooped. Ah well, they aren't the British policy party for nothing (infact they receive quite a few Saxon shillings to keep them on the treachery wagon).
Cathasaigh is some WUM .... isn't he ..... I hope he is..... he has to be...... :o
No one could be that big an eejit :o
Quote from: Rossfan on August 11, 2011, 10:05:53 PM
Cathasaigh is some WUM .... isn't he ..... I hope he is..... he has to be...... :o
No one could be that big an eejit :o
Clarify why you think I'm on a windup in regard to PSF pandering to the Loyalist agenda?
Quote from: Cáthasaigh on August 12, 2011, 12:23:37 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 11, 2011, 10:05:53 PM
Cathasaigh is some WUM .... isn't he ..... I hope he is..... he has to be...... :o
No one could be that big an eejit :o
Clarify why you think I'm on a windup in regard to PSF pandering to the Loyalist agenda?
O dear, Castasaigh do ya think (P)SF are minions of the crown, should the extremist deathstar be informed?
Quote from: Cáthasaigh on August 12, 2011, 12:23:37 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 11, 2011, 10:05:53 PM
Cathasaigh is some WUM .... isn't he ..... I hope he is..... he has to be...... :o
No one could be that big an eejit :o
Clarify why you think I'm on a windup in regard to PSF pandering to the Loyalist agenda?
The fact that you want to topple Parnell's statue. You do want to topple Parnell's statue, right?
Quote from: red hander on August 11, 2011, 06:20:46 PM
Following his wonder goal, hundreds of Are We A Country fans have asked Paddy McCourt for their bullets back, signed if possible
Bit off a tired joke there, he's a big favorite of the N. Ire fans.
Quote from: dillinger on August 12, 2011, 01:54:49 AM
Quote from: red hander on August 11, 2011, 06:20:46 PM
Following his wonder goal, hundreds of Are We A Country fans have asked Paddy McCourt for their bullets back, signed if possible
Bit off a tired joke there, he's a big favorite of the N. Ire fans.
A big favourite when he scores for the tramps. They will back to calling him a fenian gypsy b**tard by now. Why the f**k any Catholic plays for them bunch of inbred pricks is beyond me
Quote from: Cáthasaigh on August 12, 2011, 12:23:37 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 11, 2011, 10:05:53 PM
Cathasaigh is some WUM .... isn't he ..... I hope he is..... he has to be...... :o
No one could be that big an eejit :o
Clarify why you think I'm on a windup in regard to PSF pandering to the Loyalist agenda?
Minister for Sport attends sports fixture involving a team that purports to represent the part of Ireland for which she is Minister for Sport.
What will you get annoyed about next ?? Nationalists and/or Catholics having votes in the 6 Cos? ??? ??? :-\ :'(
Quote from: Rossfan on August 12, 2011, 04:51:49 PM
Quote from: Cáthasaigh on August 12, 2011, 12:23:37 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 11, 2011, 10:05:53 PM
Cathasaigh is some WUM .... isn't he ..... I hope he is..... he has to be...... :o
No one could be that big an eejit :o
Clarify why you think I'm on a windup in regard to PSF pandering to the Loyalist agenda?
Minister for Sport attends sports fixture involving a team that purports to represent the part of Ireland for which she is Minister for Sport.
What will you get annoyed about next ?? Nationalists and/or Catholics having votes in the 6 Cos? ??? ??? :-\ :'(
For the life of me I cannot understand why he is even writing in the hated Engerlishs language.
Quote from: Forever Green on August 12, 2011, 03:50:40 AM
Quote from: dillinger on August 12, 2011, 01:54:49 AM
Quote from: red hander on August 11, 2011, 06:20:46 PM
Following his wonder goal, hundreds of Are We A Country fans have asked Paddy McCourt for their bullets back, signed if possible
Bit off a tired joke there, he's a big favorite of the N. Ire fans.
A big favourite when he scores for the tramps. They will back to calling him a fenian gypsy b**tard by now. Why the f**k any Catholic plays for them bunch of inbred pricks is beyond me
The real norn fans are fine, they dont get involved in that sectarian shite anymore.
It's the fringe supporters on that are scum and sure a lot of teams have those.
Soup is something that is now pre-dating itself. I once went to a game in Hearts in Scotland as I was close to one of those players and all they had was Bovril and hot coffee or tea.
I think that if someone was maybe thinking of making a quick buck in today's economic climate, then a stall selling soup at Windsor Park could be a real winner and maybe treble the attendance there and across the world if you're prepared to travel.
Quote from: dillinger on August 12, 2011, 01:54:49 AM
Quote from: red hander on August 11, 2011, 06:20:46 PM
Following his wonder goal, hundreds of Are We A Country fans have asked Paddy McCourt for their bullets back, signed if possible
Bit off a tired joke there, he's a big favorite of the N. Ire fans.
Apparently they are calling him the Derry Diego which is a sign of progress that he's not the Londonderry Lionel!
He is the first Celtic player to score for Norn Iron in 50 years which seemed surprising at first and then when I thought of Celtic players who have played for the North all I could think of was Lennon and Rogan, which made it less surprising.
Quote from: Rossfan on August 12, 2011, 04:51:49 PM
Minister for Sport attends sports fixture involving a team that purports to represent the part of Ireland for which she is Minister for Sport.
What will you get annoyed about next ?? Nationalists and/or Catholics having votes in the 6 Cos? ??? ??? :-\ :'(
This might be difficult for you to understand but the shinners are supposed to be dedicated to the destruction of the 6C statelet but yet they increasingly seem to be enlisted in its enforcement and perpetuation. The endorsement of the god save the queen singing 6C soccer team at a Windsor Park orangefest is but the most recent glaring example. Instead of GSTQ the microminister should have been saying GFYS.
What's your solution so Cáthasaigh? What do you think should happen?
Quote from: magpie seanie on August 13, 2011, 03:23:00 PM
What's your solution so Cáthasaigh? What do you think should happen?
My solution is Irish Republicanism and I think that all Irish Republicans should be pushing for a 32 county referendum where all the people of Ireland have an equal say in the future of Ireland. It's called democracy but it's not allowed.
Quote from: Cáthasaigh on August 13, 2011, 07:47:06 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on August 13, 2011, 03:23:00 PM
What's your solution so Cáthasaigh? What do you think should happen?
My solution is Irish Republicanism and I think that all Irish Republicans should be pushing for a 32 county referendum where all the people of Ireland have an equal say in the future of Ireland. It's called democracy but it's not allowed.
Democracy is the Good Friday Agreement which was overwhelmingly endorsed across all 32 counties.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 13, 2011, 07:56:57 PM
Democracy is the Good Friday Agreement which was overwhelmingly endorsed across all 32 counties.
Rubbish, the GFA was not a democratic document as it enshrined a minority veto and it wasn't endorsed across 32 counties as only 6 had a vote on it.
Quote from: Cáthasaigh on August 13, 2011, 08:08:45 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 13, 2011, 07:56:57 PM
Democracy is the Good Friday Agreement which was overwhelmingly endorsed across all 32 counties.
Rubbish, the GFA was not a democratic document as it enshrined a minority veto and it wasn't endorsed across 32 counties as only 6 had a vote on it.
The 26 counties also voted on 23 May 1998 to amend the Constitution, effectively a vote on the GFA. Either way, all 32 counties voted on the constitutional position of the 6 counties on that date. Your argument that it wasn't a 'democratic document' holds no water - people had the opportunity to reject it, but they endorsed it - that's democracy. The fact that you don't like it doesn't make it undemocratic.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 13, 2011, 08:55:07 PM
The 26 counties also voted on 23 May 1998 to amend the Constitution, effectively a vote on the GFA. Either way, all 32 counties voted on the constitutional position of the 6 counties on that date. Your argument that it wasn't a 'democratic document' holds no water - people had the opportunity to reject it, but they endorsed it - that's democracy. The fact that you don't like it doesn't make it undemocratic.
Slight factual inaccuracy - it was 22 May 1998, my 18th birthday and what a way to mark it. I'm with you on the rest though.
Quote from: Rois on August 13, 2011, 11:15:49 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 13, 2011, 08:55:07 PM
The 26 counties also voted on 23 May 1998 to amend the Constitution, effectively a vote on the GFA. Either way, all 32 counties voted on the constitutional position of the 6 counties on that date. Your argument that it wasn't a 'democratic document' holds no water - people had the opportunity to reject it, but they endorsed it - that's democracy. The fact that you don't like it doesn't make it undemocratic.
Slight factual inaccuracy - it was 22 May 1998, my 18th birthday and what a way to mark it. I'm with you on the rest though.
just goes to show that you can't rely on wikipedia for the details!
Quote from: Rois on August 13, 2011, 11:15:49 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 13, 2011, 08:55:07 PM
The 26 counties also voted on 23 May 1998 to amend the Constitution, effectively a vote on the GFA. Either way, all 32 counties voted on the constitutional position of the 6 counties on that date. Your argument that it wasn't a 'democratic document' holds no water - people had the opportunity to reject it, but they endorsed it - that's democracy. The fact that you don't like it doesn't make it undemocratic.
Slight factual inaccuracy - it was 22 May 1998, my 18th birthday and what a way to mark it. I'm with you on the rest though.
Happy Belated Birthday
Quote from: ziggysego on August 13, 2011, 11:34:01 PM
Quote from: Rois on August 13, 2011, 11:15:49 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 13, 2011, 08:55:07 PM
The 26 counties also voted on 23 May 1998 to amend the Constitution, effectively a vote on the GFA. Either way, all 32 counties voted on the constitutional position of the 6 counties on that date. Your argument that it wasn't a 'democratic document' holds no water - people had the opportunity to reject it, but they endorsed it - that's democracy. The fact that you don't like it doesn't make it undemocratic.
Slight factual inaccuracy - it was 22 May 1998, my 18th birthday and what a way to mark it. I'm with you on the rest though.
Happy Belated Birthday
13 years too late Zig. Hardly worthwhile now.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 13, 2011, 08:55:07 PM
[
The 26 counties also voted on 23 May 1998 to amend the Constitution, effectively a vote on the GFA. Either way, all 32 counties voted on the constitutional position of the 6 counties on that date. Your argument that it wasn't a 'democratic document' holds no water - people had the opportunity to reject it, but they endorsed it - that's democracy. The fact that you don't like it doesn't make it undemocratic.
People were presented with the choice, as the Fianna Fáil poster stated, 'vote yes for peace'; which in effect was 'surrender your sovereignty or else'......shades of 'immediate and terrible war'. The media blitz was spearheaded by Thatcher's pet PR firm Saatchi and Saatchi. The GFA is anti-democratic in that it enshrines the veto of a minority on the island of Ireland over the destiny of the entire nation and the criminal Bertie Ahern went so far as to lobby for the constitutional issue being resolved in Britain's favour.
The GFA was all about the perpetuation of British rule in Ireland and anyone who classes themselves as a GAA supporter and cannot recognise that it was desiigned to ensure that an all Ireland would only exist in Croke Park finals is sorely deluded and unworthy of the mantle of the courageious men and women who established our national games.
Quote from: Cáthasaigh on August 13, 2011, 10:52:12 AM
This might be difficult for you to understand but the shinners are supposed to be dedicated to the destruction of the 6C statelet but yet they increasingly seem to be enlisted in its enforcement and perpetuation. The endorsement of the god save the queen singing 6C soccer team at a Windsor Park orangefest is but the most recent glaring example. Instead of GSTQ the microminister should have been saying GFYS.
Quite.
What do you think of Charles Stewart Parnell?
Quote from: Rois on August 13, 2011, 11:15:49 PM
Slight factual inaccuracy - it was 22 May 1998, my 18th birthday and what a way to mark it. I'm with you on the rest though.
Yea, we believe you....18......
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 14, 2011, 05:20:20 AM
Quite.
What do you think of Charles Stewart Parnell?
From what little I know of him he was a decent Irishman taken down by the British and Catholic establishments. His relevance to this debate?
OK Cáthasaigh. Lets say we have a referendum as you suggest. It's possible you wouldn't get the result you wish for - would that be undemocratic? If we get the result you wish for do you have any ideads how the rights and traditions of the large minority of unionists would be respected or would you be in favour of trampling on them like they did to nationalists previously?
My favoured outcome is a 32 county strong, independent republic with a just and fair society but not at any price. Too many people have died in conflict to face into that again. The focus of all should be on developing a fair society that treats all equally and gives opportunity to all. The border/currency etc is moot in the light of our impotence in the face of Brussels.
Quote from: Cáthasaigh on August 14, 2011, 02:53:05 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 13, 2011, 08:55:07 PM
[
The 26 counties also voted on 23 May 1998 to amend the Constitution, effectively a vote on the GFA. Either way, all 32 counties voted on the constitutional position of the 6 counties on that date. Your argument that it wasn't a 'democratic document' holds no water - people had the opportunity to reject it, but they endorsed it - that's democracy. The fact that you don't like it doesn't make it undemocratic.
People were presented with the choice, as the Fianna Fáil poster stated, 'vote yes for peace'; which in effect was 'surrender your sovereignty or else'......shades of 'immediate and terrible war'. The media blitz was spearheaded by Thatcher's pet PR firm Saatchi and Saatchi. The GFA is anti-democratic in that it enshrines the veto of a minority on the island of Ireland over the destiny of the entire nation and the criminal Bertie Ahern went so far as to lobby for the constitutional issue being resolved in Britain's favour.
The GFA was all about the perpetuation of British rule in Ireland and anyone who classes themselves as a GAA supporter and cannot recognise that it was desiigned to ensure that an all Ireland would only exist in Croke Park finals is sorely deluded and unworthy of the mantle of the courageious men and women who established our national games.
So basically the Irish public are stupid? They were conned? But they still haven't realised it?
Oh, and they're 'not worthy' either?
quote] A big favourite when he scores for the tramps. They will back to calling him a fenian gypsy b**tard by now. Why the f**k any Catholic plays for them bunch of inbred pricks is beyond me
[/quote]
Think that post says a lot about you and not in a good light. Move on, join the 21st century
Quote from: magpie seanie on August 14, 2011, 11:16:03 AM
OK Cáthasaigh. Lets say we have a referendum as you suggest. It's possible you wouldn't get the result you wish for - would that be undemocratic? If we get the result you wish for do you have any ideads how the rights and traditions of the large minority of unionists would be respected or would you be in favour of trampling on them like they did to nationalists previously?
My favoured outcome is a 32 county strong, independent republic with a just and fair society but not at any price. Too many people have died in conflict to face into that again. The focus of all should be on developing a fair society that treats all equally and gives opportunity to all. The border/currency etc is moot in the light of our impotence in the face of Brussels.
If we had a 32 County referendum and it was unsuccessful I would accept the result but continue to campaign for a United Ireland as would be my right. The people who lost the first divorce referendum didn't say 'we were beaten so we should just forget about it'. Plenty on here appear to be of the opinion that no alternative viewpoint to the GFA is socially acceptable and that is Fascistic. As far as the unionist minority is concerned I would have no problem with them maintaining a cultural link to Britain but would want to see them also contribute fully to a fair and progressive Irish society. I have many friends and colleagues in the minority community and I believe that we could count on the good nature of the vast majority of Unionists.
That's a rational and sensible argument and I don't disagree with any of it.
I do take issue with your view on the GFA referendum. I don't think people were conned. If anything I'd suggest they knew more about it than most other things they vote on.
Quote from: magpie seanie on August 14, 2011, 04:31:35 PM
That's a rational and sensible argument and I don't disagree with any of it.
I do take issue with your view on the GFA referendum. I don't think people were conned. If anything I'd suggest they knew more about it than most other things they vote on.
Few people have actually read the GFA or understand that it's actually intended to copperfasten British rule, too many have been deluded by lying politicians who glame it's a 'blueprint for unity' or whatever rubbish the shinners are spinning these days. The GFA was the product of Gerry Adams, Bertie Ahern and Tony Blair; three of the least trustworthy politicians imaginable so it has 'conjob' written all over it. People voted for the GFA as they were essentially given a choice 'GFA or war', if you were against the GFA you were pro-violence and this tactic crossed the border in the form of Fianna Fáil's 'vote yes for peace' campaign. The passing of the GFA and surrender of articles 2+3 was a classic case of manufactured consent and the Irish people got the worst out of it.
You don't need to have read that GFA from cover to cover to understand it. The basic principle (in terms of the constitutional issue) is that once a majority of the population in the 6 counties, plus a majority in the 26 counties, want a united Ireland, that will happen. It's not rocket science, so to suggest that the Irish people were conned is more than a bit disingenuous.
And Articles 2 and 3 didn't actually do very much in 60 odd years to advance unification, so I don't see that as a massive 'surrender'.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 14, 2011, 05:47:14 PM
You don't need to have read that GFA from cover to cover to understand it. The basic principle (in terms of the constitutional issue) is that once a majority of the population in the 6 counties, plus a majority in the 26 counties, want a united Ireland, that will happen. It's not rocket science, so to suggest that the Irish people were conned is more than a bit disingenuous.
And Articles 2 and 3 didn't actually do very much in 60 odd years to advance unification, so I don't see that as a massive 'surrender'.
There's nothing in it about a majority in the 26C. What it states is that a British SOS can call a referendum if s/he feels that it is likely to be successful and you can be sure that MI5 will be soclally engineering against such an eventuality. The internal referendum for the 6 is antidemocratic and enshrines a minority veto. The GFA contains absolutely no guarantee of a UI and recent statements by British PMs have clearly indicated that a UI will never be on the British agenda.
People were conned because they were and are still told that it would lead to unity when in effect it copperfastened British rule and constitutional sovereignty over the 6 was surrendered to the British with the result that what was internationally recognised as a dispute over territory between Britain and Ireland was henceforth a regional dispute within the UK.
So if th 6 counties voted for a 32 county, Irish Republic, you'd reject it because it wasn't a 32 county referendum?
Quote from: Cáthasaigh on August 14, 2011, 11:06:35 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 14, 2011, 05:20:20 AM
Quite.
What do you think of Charles Stewart Parnell?
From what little I know of him he was a decent Irishman taken down by the British and Catholic establishments. His relevance to this debate?
OK then, how do you feel about SDLP people taking their seats in Westminster?
Quote from: Cáthasaigh on August 14, 2011, 05:29:14 PM
Few people have actually read the GFA or understand that it's actually intended to copperfasten British rule, too many have been deluded by lying politicians who glame it's a 'blueprint for unity' or whatever rubbish the shinners are spinning these days. The GFA was the product of Gerry Adams, Bertie Ahern and Tony Blair; three of the least trustworthy politicians imaginable so it has 'conjob' written all over it. People voted for the GFA as they were essentially given a choice 'GFA or war', if you were against the GFA you were pro-violence and this tactic crossed the border in the form of Fianna Fáil's 'vote yes for peace' campaign. The passing of the GFA and surrender of articles 2+3 was a classic case of manufactured consent and the Irish people got the worst out of it.
Translation: I don't like the way the people voted so I'm going to ignore their wishes.
Quote from: Cáthasaigh on August 14, 2011, 05:54:49 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 14, 2011, 05:47:14 PM
You don't need to have read that GFA from cover to cover to understand it. The basic principle (in terms of the constitutional issue) is that once a majority of the population in the 6 counties, plus a majority in the 26 counties, want a united Ireland, that will happen. It's not rocket science, so to suggest that the Irish people were conned is more than a bit disingenuous.
And Articles 2 and 3 didn't actually do very much in 60 odd years to advance unification, so I don't see that as a massive 'surrender'.
There's nothing in it about a majority in the 26C. What it states is that a British SOS can call a referendum if s/he feels that it is likely to be successful and you can be sure that MI5 will be soclally engineering against such an eventuality. The internal referendum for the 6 is antidemocratic and enshrines a minority veto. The GFA contains absolutely no guarantee of a UI and recent statements by British PMs have clearly indicated that a UI will never be on the British agenda.
People were conned because they were and are still told that it would lead to unity when in effect it copperfastened British rule and constitutional sovereignty over the 6 was surrendered to the British with the result that what was internationally recognised as a dispute over territory between Britain and Ireland was henceforth a regional dispute within the UK.
Now we've established that you have no idea what you're talking about.
Quote from: Cáthasaigh on August 14, 2011, 05:29:14 PM
Few people have actually read the GFA
Yes, and you're one of them. The revised Article 3 reads as follows:
1. It is the firm will of the Irish nation, in harmony and friendship, to unite all the people who share the territory of the island of Ireland, in all the diversity of their identities and traditions, recognising that a united Ireland shall be brought about only by peaceful means with the consent of a majority of the people, democratically expressed, in both jurisdictions in the island.
Quote from: Cáthasaigh on August 14, 2011, 02:53:05 AM
The GFA was all about the perpetuation of British rule in Ireland and anyone who classes themselves as a GAA supporter and cannot recognise that it was desiigned to ensure that an all Ireland would only exist in Croke Park finals is sorely deluded and unworthy of the mantle of the courageious men and women who established our national games.
(http://www.unmuseum.org/apat2.jpg)
Quote from: ziggysego on August 14, 2011, 05:58:20 PM
So if th 6 counties voted for a 32 county, Irish Republic, you'd reject it because it wasn't a 32 county referendum?
Hardly. Do you see a successful 6 county referendum happening any time soon?
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 14, 2011, 06:19:17 PM
Translation: I don't like the way the people voted so I'm going to ignore their wishes.
Translation: Achtung, your opinion is verboten.
Fascist much?
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 14, 2011, 06:17:18 PM
OK then, how do you feel about SDLP people taking their seats in Westminster?
I haven't much in the way of feelings for the stoops, they don't represent me and neither do the shinners; who will join them in Westminster in due course.
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 14, 2011, 06:21:51 PM
Yes, and you're one of them. The revised Article 3 reads as follows:
1. It is the firm will of the Irish nation, in harmony and friendship, to unite all the people who share the territory of the island of Ireland, in all the diversity of their identities and traditions, recognising that a united Ireland shall be brought about only by peaceful means with the consent of a majority of the people, democratically expressed, in both jurisdictions in the island.
What you're talking about here is seperate referenda. If there was a unilateral referendum in the 26 tomorrow and the people voted for unity they would be ignored. The only referendum that matters to the GFA is the one which can only be called when the British decide it can happen. The whole island should vote together in one referendum.
I think you are wrong about the British position in this. I reckon if they could get out without being accused of causing a conflict they'd be gone in jig time. They don't give a shit about the 6 counties and would be glad to be shot of them.
Quote from: Cáthasaigh on August 14, 2011, 06:52:07 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 14, 2011, 06:19:17 PM
Translation: I don't like the way the people voted so I'm going to ignore their wishes.
Translation: Achtung, your opinion is verboten.
Fascist much?
Cat you do realise you are the one coming across sounding like a fascist nutter.
Quote from: Cáthasaigh on August 14, 2011, 06:52:07 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 14, 2011, 06:19:17 PM
Translation: I don't like the way the people voted so I'm going to ignore their wishes.
Translation: Achtung, your opinion is verboten.
Fascist much?
(http://cache.ohinternet.com/images/1/1d/GodwinsLaw_CatPoster.jpg)
Quote from: magpie seanie on August 14, 2011, 06:58:31 PM
I think you are wrong about the British position in this. I reckon if they could get out without being accused of causing a conflict they'd be gone in jig time. They don't give a shit about the 6 counties and would be glad to be shot of them.
Why then did they insist on the constitutional issue being resolved in their favour?
Surely you don't believe Mayhew's lies about Britain having 'no selfish strategic interest?'
Quote from: Cáthasaigh on August 14, 2011, 06:50:13 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on August 14, 2011, 05:58:20 PM
So if th 6 counties voted for a 32 county, Irish Republic, you'd reject it because it wasn't a 32 county referendum?
Hardly. Do you see a successful 6 county referendum happening any time soon?
Not with all the threat of dissident activity in the north. Hard to foster good relations and build trust, when all this is goIng on.
Quote from: Cáthasaigh on August 14, 2011, 06:53:46 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 14, 2011, 06:17:18 PM
OK then, how do you feel about SDLP people taking their seats in Westminster?
I haven't much in the way of feelings for the stoops, they don't represent me and neither do the shinners; who will join them in Westminster in due course.
And if the shinners did take their seats in Westminster how would you feel about that?
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 14, 2011, 07:00:04 PM
Cat you do realise you are the one coming across sounding like a fascist nutter.
That's right, I'm the one trolling a thread where somebody had the gall to express an opinion alternate to the establishment mantra.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 14, 2011, 07:03:11 PM
And if the shinners did take their seats in Westminster how would you feel about that?
Unsurprised.
If your aunt had balls would she be your uncle or even your uncledaddy?
Quote from: Cáthasaigh on August 14, 2011, 07:01:08 PM
Surely you don't believe Mayhew's lies about Britain having 'no selfish strategic interest?'
2 things:
1 - It was Brooke, not Sir Paddy, who made the "no selfish strategic interest" speech.
2 - I lived in England long enough to know that the people don't give a toss about the six counties, don't understand what it's doing on their evening news, don't know what the conflict was/is about, and those of them who are actually aware that the place is part of the UK would be only too happy to get shot of it and their government is not too far behind them.
Quote from: Cáthasaigh on August 14, 2011, 07:05:31 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 14, 2011, 07:03:11 PM
And if the shinners did take their seats in Westminster how would you feel about that?
Unsurprised.
If your aunt had balls would she be your uncle or even your uncledaddy?
Unsurprised in a good way or a bad way? Would you think they're being traitors to the cause of Irish unity or something?
Quote from: Cáthasaigh on August 14, 2011, 07:04:03 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 14, 2011, 07:00:04 PM
Cat you do realise you are the one coming across sounding like a fascist nutter.
That's right, I'm the one trolling a thread where somebody had the gall to express an opinion alternate to the establishment mantra.
I would be more worried about your webbed feet, hunchback, third nipple and monobrow. How long do they let you out of your cage. I hope the ankle chain is not too uncomfortable as you bang on your keyboard. Inbreeding has a lot to answer for.
Quote from: Cáthasaigh on August 14, 2011, 07:05:31 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 14, 2011, 07:03:11 PM
And if the shinners did take their seats in Westminster how would you feel about that?
Unsurprised.
If your aunt had balls would she be your uncle or even your uncledaddy?
Cat stop projecting your own upbringing on others.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 14, 2011, 07:05:53 PM
2 things:
1 - It was Brooke, not Sir Paddy, who made the "no selfish strategic interest" speech.
2 - I lived in England long enough to know that the people don't give a toss about the six counties, don't understand what it's doing on their evening news, don't know what the conflict was/is about, and those of them who are actually aware that the place is part of the UK would be only too happy to get shot of it and their government is not too far behind them.
There has been no indication that the British establishment (the ones who actually run the place) have any desire to leave Ireland. quite the contrary. Lisbon 1+2 give us a good indication of how much Governments care about the will of their people.
Quote from: Cáthasaigh on August 14, 2011, 07:18:33 PM
There has been no indication that the British establishment (the ones who actually run the place) have any desire to leave Ireland. quite the contrary. Lisbon 1+2 give us a good indication of how much Governments care about the will of their people.
You're deluded. Do you really think that a £3 billion annual drain on the exchequer is something the British want to hang on to?
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on August 14, 2011, 07:15:29 PM
Cat stop projecting your own upbringing on others.
(http://www.fohguild.org/forums/attachments/screenshots/81637d1216571706-funny-strange-random-pics-attentionwhore.jpg)
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 14, 2011, 07:20:23 PM
Quote from: Cáthasaigh on August 14, 2011, 07:18:33 PM
There has been no indication that the British establishment (the ones who actually run the place) have any desire to leave Ireland. quite the contrary. Lisbon 1+2 give us a good indication of how much Governments care about the will of their people.
You're deluded. Do you really think that a £3 billion annual drain on the exchequer is something the British want to hang on to?
Can you point to ANYTHING which would suggest there is any real desire on the part of the British establishment to leave Ireland? Everything they have done in recent years points to a process of normalisation and perpetuation of the British administrative presence in Ireland.
Quote from: Cáthasaigh on August 14, 2011, 06:57:43 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 14, 2011, 06:21:51 PM
Yes, and you're one of them. The revised Article 3 reads as follows:
1. It is the firm will of the Irish nation, in harmony and friendship, to unite all the people who share the territory of the island of Ireland, in all the diversity of their identities and traditions, recognising that a united Ireland shall be brought about only by peaceful means with the consent of a majority of the people, democratically expressed, in both jurisdictions in the island.
What you're talking about here is seperate referenda. If there was a unilateral referendum in the 26 tomorrow and the people voted for unity they would be ignored. The only referendum that matters to the GFA is the one which can only be called when the British decide it can happen. The whole island should vote together in one referendum.
Yes, but I notice that you 'conveniently' ommitted your comment that I was replying to:
Quote from: Cáthasaigh on August 14, 2011, 05:54:49 PM
There's nothing in it about a majority in the 26C.
I've pointed out (from the Agreement that
"few people have actually read") that it
does require a majority in the 26 counties.
As for it being seperate referenda, the agreement states that the participants:
recognise that it is for the people of the island of Ireland alone, by agreement between the two parts respectively and without external impediment, to exercise their right of self-determination on the basis of consent, freely and concurrently given, North and South, to bring about a united IrelandSo for all intents and purposes, it's one referendum. And the one in the 6 counties
isn't the only one that matters; both have to be passed.
Quote from: Cáthasaigh on August 14, 2011, 07:37:06 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 14, 2011, 07:20:23 PM
Quote from: Cáthasaigh on August 14, 2011, 07:18:33 PM
There has been no indication that the British establishment (the ones who actually run the place) have any desire to leave Ireland. quite the contrary. Lisbon 1+2 give us a good indication of how much Governments care about the will of their people.
You're deluded. Do you really think that a £3 billion annual drain on the exchequer is something the British want to hang on to?
Can you point to ANYTHING which would suggest there is any real desire on the part of the British establishment to leave Ireland? Everything they have done in recent years points to a process of normalisation and perpetuation of the British administrative presence in Ireland.
1 - The "no selfish strategic economic interest" position
2 - The support for leaving it up to the people of the north to decide rather than just declaring the union to be non-negotiable
3 - The cost of maintaining the place
4 - The pain-in-the-neck perception that the north has in Britain
5 - Every opinion poll I ever saw in England pointed to overwhelming support for British withdrawal
6 - Statements from government ministers (including those among Tory governments) about how the only reason they stay is to maintain the validity of the ballot box but they'll be gone the first chance they get as soon as the people in the north vote for it
7 - The support for the Good Friday Agreement which allows for British withdrawal as soon as a majority in the north has been convinced that it would be a good idea.
Now would you please answer my question about if the Shinners took their seats in Westminster would you consider them to be traitors for doing so.
Quote from: Cáthasaigh on August 14, 2011, 07:18:33 PM
Lisbon 1+2 give us a good indication of how much Governments care about the will of their people.
Lisbon 2 was different from Lisbon 1 in that it came with additional guarantees for the ROI, such as neutrality and control over taxation. Without those guarantees the people voted against it. With those guarantees the people voted for it.
Quote from: Cáthasaigh on August 14, 2011, 07:18:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 14, 2011, 07:05:53 PM
2 things:
1 - It was Brooke, not Sir Paddy, who made the "no selfish strategic interest" speech.
2 - I lived in England long enough to know that the people don't give a toss about the six counties, don't understand what it's doing on their evening news, don't know what the conflict was/is about, and those of them who are actually aware that the place is part of the UK would be only too happy to get shot of it and their government is not too far behind them.
There has been no indication that the British establishment (the ones who actually run the place) have any desire to leave Ireland. quite the contrary. Lisbon 1+2 give us a good indication of how much Governments care about the will of their people.
That was the ROI government at the behest of their European
masters "partners" and we'll have to agree to disagree on this but I think they (ROI Govt) would have greater concerns about a 32 county Ireland than their British counterparts.
Thanks for arguing the points with me. I don't agree with you but I think some of the stuff thrown at you here was unfair.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 14, 2011, 10:13:28 PM
Quote from: Cáthasaigh on August 14, 2011, 07:18:33 PM
Lisbon 1+2 give us a good indication of how much Governments care about the will of their people.
Lisbon 2 was different from Lisbon 1 in that it came with additional guarantees for the ROI, such as neutrality and control over taxation. Without those guarantees the people voted against it. With those guarantees the people voted for it.
Sorry Eamonnca1 but I'm not having that. It was exactly the same legally and we saw with Mr Sarcozy recently just how strong those guarantees were. People voted for Lisbon 2 because the economy was going down the shitter and they thought Europe would save us. How did that go then? ::)
Quote from: magpie seanie on August 14, 2011, 10:26:54 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 14, 2011, 10:13:28 PM
Quote from: Cáthasaigh on August 14, 2011, 07:18:33 PM
Lisbon 1+2 give us a good indication of how much Governments care about the will of their people.
Lisbon 2 was different from Lisbon 1 in that it came with additional guarantees for the ROI, such as neutrality and control over taxation. Without those guarantees the people voted against it. With those guarantees the people voted for it.
Sorry Eamonnca1 but I'm not having that. It was exactly the same legally and we saw with Mr Sarcozy recently just how strong those guarantees were. People voted for Lisbon 2 because the economy was going down the shitter and they thought Europe would save us. How did that go then? ::)
The ROI's problems are caused by its membership of the Eurozone, not the Lisbon Treaty. In fact the Lisbon Treaty was a response to the rejection of the EU constitution by French and and Dutch voters in 2005.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 14, 2011, 10:40:18 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on August 14, 2011, 10:26:54 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 14, 2011, 10:13:28 PM
Quote from: Cáthasaigh on August 14, 2011, 07:18:33 PM
Lisbon 1+2 give us a good indication of how much Governments care about the will of their people.
Lisbon 2 was different from Lisbon 1 in that it came with additional guarantees for the ROI, such as neutrality and control over taxation. Without those guarantees the people voted against it. With those guarantees the people voted for it.
Sorry Eamonnca1 but I'm not having that. It was exactly the same legally and we saw with Mr Sarcozy recently just how strong those guarantees were. People voted for Lisbon 2 because the economy was going down the shitter and they thought Europe would save us. How did that go then? ::)
The ROI's problems are caused by its membership of the Eurozone, not the Lisbon Treaty. In fact the Lisbon Treaty was a response to the rejection of the EU constitution by French and and Dutch voters in 2005.
Largely correct but my point about the reasons people voted yes the second time still stand. "Vote Yes for Jobs" - that's going well!
Quote from: magpie seanie on August 15, 2011, 12:21:23 AM
Largely correct but my point about the reasons people voted yes the second time still stand. "Vote Yes for Jobs" - that's going well!
"Yes for jobs" was stretching things a bit. Lisbon was about re-arranging the democratic institutions in Europe, its impact on jobs (positive or negative) was always going to be negligible.
Meanwhile back at the ranch...
(http://www.irishfa.com/fs/img/library/rs-150xc/gaa-at-windsor-park-web-size.jpg)
Two GAA stars were at Windsor Park again recently to cheer on Nigel Worthington and his team against the Faroe Islands. John and Martin Clarke, members of Down's 2010 All-Ireland final squad, rarely miss a Northern Ireland game.
"I would always have looked out for them when I was growing up, but I guess I really caught the bug when I moved up to Belfast to go to university. Windsor Park was just down the road from me, so I started going to the matches pretty regularly. I'd say I've been to Windsor about 25 times in the past five or six years, I love it" said John.
A full interview by Colin McAlinden with the Clarke brothers will be in the Northern Ireland v Serbia match programme.
http://www.irishfa.com/news/item/6687/down-gaa-stars-cheer-on-nigels-boys/
QuoteTwo GAA stars were at Windsor Park again recently to cheer on Nigel Worthington and his team against the Faroe Islands.
Fair enough. Will we be seeing any prominent non Taig OWC players being photographed at a GAA match?
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 17, 2011, 03:40:01 PM
Meanwhile back at the ranch...
(http://www.irishfa.com/fs/img/library/rs-150xc/gaa-at-windsor-park-web-size.jpg)
Two GAA stars were at Windsor Park again recently to cheer on Nigel Worthington and his team against the Faroe Islands. John and Martin Clarke, members of Down's 2010 All-Ireland final squad, rarely miss a Northern Ireland game.
"I would always have looked out for them when I was growing up, but I guess I really caught the bug when I moved up to Belfast to go to university. Windsor Park was just down the road from me, so I started going to the matches pretty regularly. I'd say I've been to Windsor about 25 times in the past five or six years, I love it" said John.
A full interview by Colin McAlinden with the Clarke brothers will be in the Northern Ireland v Serbia match programme.
http://www.irishfa.com/news/item/6687/down-gaa-stars-cheer-on-nigels-boys/
They're braver men than me.
Quote from: armaghniac on August 17, 2011, 04:12:30 PM
QuoteTwo GAA stars were at Windsor Park again recently to cheer on Nigel Worthington and his team against the Faroe Islands.
Fair enough. Will we be seeing any prominent non Taig OWC players being photographed at a GAA match?
At the risk of indulging your "Whataboutery", I shall attempt to reply.
First, since all of the "non Taig" NI players are professionals, living and working in England/Scotland with their families etc, I doubt you'll see too many in the near future.
Which is why I doubt you'll see even former GAA players like Baird, McGinn or Clingan attending GAA matches too often, either.
But leaving aside the logistical considerations, your post raises two aspects of NI Prod attendance at GAA matches.
The first is whether they would be
welcome to attend. In this respect, I have little doubt that they would. After all, no-one said a word to any of Shane McCabe's Glentoran pals when they went along to support him at a GAA match. Ditto when Edwin Poots decided to go along when he was Sports Minister.
The second, however, is whether NI Prods would have any
interest in attending GAA games. In this respect, I have equally little doubt that with the occasional exception, they wouldn't.
Which leaves open the question why this should be so. Logically, there can really only three explanations. The first is that 99% of Prods are so bigoted that they could not be tempted to go along whatever the GAA did.
The second is that the GAA makes no real effort, beyond certain 'token' initiatives, to persuade NI Prods that they should get involved.
And the third is that the organisation may be making concerted efforts at persuasion, but these are being thwarted by other aspects of the organisation's image and activities.
As a (nominal) Prod myself, I know which I think it is.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2011, 05:26:24 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 17, 2011, 03:40:01 PM
Meanwhile back at the ranch...
(http://www.irishfa.com/fs/img/library/rs-150xc/gaa-at-windsor-park-web-size.jpg)
Two GAA stars were at Windsor Park again recently to cheer on Nigel Worthington and his team against the Faroe Islands. John and Martin Clarke, members of Down's 2010 All-Ireland final squad, rarely miss a Northern Ireland game.
"I would always have looked out for them when I was growing up, but I guess I really caught the bug when I moved up to Belfast to go to university. Windsor Park was just down the road from me, so I started going to the matches pretty regularly. I'd say I've been to Windsor about 25 times in the past five or six years, I love it" said John.
A full interview by Colin McAlinden with the Clarke brothers will be in the Northern Ireland v Serbia match programme.
http://www.irishfa.com/news/item/6687/down-gaa-stars-cheer-on-nigels-boys/
They're braver men than me.
Why so?
What exactly do you think might happen to you at a football match between NI and the Faroes, on an August night in Belfast? ???
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 17, 2011, 07:27:58 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2011, 05:26:24 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 17, 2011, 03:40:01 PM
Meanwhile back at the ranch...
(http://www.irishfa.com/fs/img/library/rs-150xc/gaa-at-windsor-park-web-size.jpg)
Two GAA stars were at Windsor Park again recently to cheer on Nigel Worthington and his team against the Faroe Islands. John and Martin Clarke, members of Down's 2010 All-Ireland final squad, rarely miss a Northern Ireland game.
"I would always have looked out for them when I was growing up, but I guess I really caught the bug when I moved up to Belfast to go to university. Windsor Park was just down the road from me, so I started going to the matches pretty regularly. I'd say I've been to Windsor about 25 times in the past five or six years, I love it" said John.
A full interview by Colin McAlinden with the Clarke brothers will be in the Northern Ireland v Serbia match programme.
http://www.irishfa.com/news/item/6687/down-gaa-stars-cheer-on-nigels-boys/
They're braver men than me.
Why so?
What exactly do you think might happen to you at a football match between NI and the Faroes, on an August night in Belfast? ???
You could get stuck amongst large groups singing about rifles and pistols and the YCV. Like these lads:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3ZgfdQeBjs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3ZgfdQeBjs)
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 17, 2011, 07:25:05 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 17, 2011, 04:12:30 PM
QuoteTwo GAA stars were at Windsor Park again recently to cheer on Nigel Worthington and his team against the Faroe Islands.
Fair enough. Will we be seeing any prominent non Taig OWC players being photographed at a GAA match?
At the risk of indulging your "Whataboutery", I shall attempt to reply.
First, since all of the "non Taig" NI players are professionals, living and working in England/Scotland with their families etc, I doubt you'll see too many in the near future.
Which is why I doubt you'll see even former GAA players like Baird, McGinn or Clingan attending GAA matches too often, either.
But leaving aside the logistical considerations, your post raises two aspects of NI Prod attendance at GAA matches.
The first is whether they would be welcome to attend. In this respect, I have little doubt that they would. After all, no-one said a word to any of Shane McCabe's Glentoran pals when they went along to support him at a GAA match. Ditto when Edwin Poots decided to go along when he was Sports Minister.
The second, however, is whether NI Prods would have any interest in attending GAA games. In this respect, I have equally little doubt that with the occasional exception, they wouldn't.
Which leaves open the question why this should be so. Logically, there can really only three explanations. The first is that 99% of Prods are so bigoted that they could not be tempted to go along whatever the GAA did.
The second is that the GAA makes no real effort, beyond certain 'token' initiatives, to persuade NI Prods that they should get involved.
And the third is that the organisation may be making concerted efforts at persuasion, but these are being thwarted by other aspects of the organisation's image and activities.
As a (nominal) Prod myself, I know which I think it is.
Well I am slowly wearing them down in Liverpool, got a few NI Protestants following the Mayo matches now. Determined I will get a few across to a Connacht Championship match next year.
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 17, 2011, 07:25:05 PM
And the third is that the organisation may be making concerted efforts at persuasion, but these are being thwarted by other aspects of the organisation's image and activities.
You're on to something there. The outreach initiatives involve a lot of work, particularly the Cu Chullain cross community underage hurling teams. But they don't have the same headline-grabbing appeal of a small number of incidents of politically charged events on GAA grounds. The Newsletter only ever mentions the GAA whenever there's something negative to be said about it, so it's unsurprising that your boys have a negative impression of the association. The best way for us to fix that is to not give youse any ammunition to throw at us in the first place rather than bitching about it when you do.
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 17, 2011, 07:27:58 PM
Why so?
What exactly do you think might happen to you at a football match between NI and the Faroes, on an August night in Belfast? ???
I'd be afraid of getting my head kicked in if anyone were to find out I was a fenian.
Who would be in more danger?
a) A catholic wearing his GAA jersey at a NI soccer match?
b) A protestant wearing his NI soccer jersy at a GAA match?
There have been 9836 threads on General Discussion and I am starting to think if you remove the soccer threads we only ever discuss the same half dozen topics ad nauseum.
You sicko! Why dont you just start a topic called Ad Nauseum? That will sicken everyone.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2011, 09:23:53 PM
The Newsletter only ever mentions the GAA whenever there's something negative to be said about it, so it's unsurprising that your boys have a negative impression of the association.
One
minor detail: nobody actually reads the Newsletter.
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 17, 2011, 03:40:01 PM
Meanwhile back at the ranch...
(http://www.irishfa.com/fs/img/library/rs-150xc/gaa-at-windsor-park-web-size.jpg)
Two GAA stars were at Windsor Park again recently to cheer on Nigel Worthington and his team against the Faroe Islands. John and Martin Clarke, members of Down's 2010 All-Ireland final squad, rarely miss a Northern Ireland game.
But they have Prod names so they be ok. Kidding, i come from a very mixed family and my bro-in law and cousins/ nephews who are catholic have been to many N Ire games with me over the years. And we all wear the shirts proudly.
Quote from: stew on August 12, 2011, 06:22:41 PM
Quote from: Forever Green on August 12, 2011, 03:50:40 AM
Quote from: dillinger on August 12, 2011, 01:54:49 AM
Quote from: red hander on August 11, 2011, 06:20:46 PM
Following his wonder goal, hundreds of Are We A Country fans have asked Paddy McCourt for their bullets back, signed if possible
Bit off a tired joke there, he's a big favorite of the N. Ire fans.
A big favourite when he scores for the tramps. They will back to calling him a fenian gypsy b**tard by now. Why the f**k any Catholic plays for them bunch of inbred pricks is beyond me
The real norn fans are fine, they dont get involved in that sectarian shite anymore.
It's the fringe supporters on that are scum and sure a lot of teams have those.
You think? Take a trip to Windsor or Shamrock Park some Saturday and you'll see that sectarianism is endemic in NI soccer.
Quote from: dillinger on August 17, 2011, 11:31:00 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 17, 2011, 03:40:01 PM
Meanwhile back at the ranch...
(http://www.irishfa.com/fs/img/library/rs-150xc/gaa-at-windsor-park-web-size.jpg)
Two GAA stars were at Windsor Park again recently to cheer on Nigel Worthington and his team against the Faroe Islands. John and Martin Clarke, members of Down's 2010 All-Ireland final squad, rarely miss a Northern Ireland game.
But they have Prod names so they be ok. Kidding, i come from a very mixed family and my bro-in law and cousins/ nephews who are catholic have been to many N Ire games with me over the years. And we all wear the shirts proudly.
Glad to see that Ireland's B team get some support.
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 18, 2011, 08:47:41 AM
Quote from: stew on August 12, 2011, 06:22:41 PM
Quote from: Forever Green on August 12, 2011, 03:50:40 AM
Quote from: dillinger on August 12, 2011, 01:54:49 AM
Quote from: red hander on August 11, 2011, 06:20:46 PM
Following his wonder goal, hundreds of Are We A Country fans have asked Paddy McCourt for their bullets back, signed if possible
Bit off a tired joke there, he's a big favorite of the N. Ire fans.
A big favourite when he scores for the tramps. They will back to calling him a fenian gypsy b**tard by now. Why the f**k any Catholic plays for them bunch of inbred pricks is beyond me
The real norn fans are fine, they dont get involved in that sectarian shite anymore.
It's the fringe supporters on that are scum and sure a lot of teams have those.
You think? Take a trip to Windsor or Shamrock Park some Saturday and you'll see that sectarianism is endemic in NI soccer.
As a Portadown supporter I'd be inclined to ask what you think you've seen or heard at recent Portadown matches to draw that conclusion. I mean, I'd be inclined to if I didn't know you were posting total lies.
Absolutely not lies I have had first hand experience of some so called supporters from Portadown.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2011, 09:25:39 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 17, 2011, 07:27:58 PM
Why so?
What exactly do you think might happen to you at a football match between NI and the Faroes, on an August night in Belfast? ???
I'd be afraid of getting my head kicked in if anyone were to find out I was a fenian.
So Jermoan Quinn can attend an NI game (in GAA top and all) and no-one says a word to him. Caral niCuillin, too. And the Clarke brothers. And Dillinger's friends. And Armagh Stew (in Chicago). And the Catholic members of my supporters' Club. And the Catholic players' families. And the Catholic Stewards, IFA Staff, PSNI duty officers, Journalists and God knows who else. And even a rather well-known Catholic Priest from Down (regular supporter, though I doubt he wears the collar).
That must account for the regular reports of Taigs getting their heads kicked in at Windsor which emerge after every NI game. You know, these attacks which are all over the papers, TV, Radio and Internet, and which fill the A&E Wards and lead to PSNI investigations, appeals for information and arrests....
P.S. I must remember to kick my old mate Julian's head in, the next time I bump into him at Windsor. Tbh, he goes that often I kinda forgot he's a Taig.
been to windsor a few times , actually was at the isreal game in 1981 as a kid( NI won 3-0 ) to send them to spain,also saw the columbia game and was at the various republic games, didnt ever get any hassle indeed the only hassle at any games north or south was in usa in 1994 when some druk southerners called me a plastic paddy and told me to f--k off home and support my own country
since that and the fact that to play for NI you have to hold a brit passport i dont support either team
joining the two up like rugby would be a sensible solution
but it is wrong to say that you are in fear as a taig going to windsor
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 19, 2011, 12:28:49 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2011, 09:25:39 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 17, 2011, 07:27:58 PM
Why so?
What exactly do you think might happen to you at a football match between NI and the Faroes, on an August night in Belfast? ???
I'd be afraid of getting my head kicked in if anyone were to find out I was a fenian.
So Jermoan Quinn can attend an NI game (in GAA top and all) and no-one says a word to him. Caral niCuillin, too. And the Clarke brothers. And Dillinger's friends. And Armagh Stew (in Chicago). And the Catholic members of my supporters' Club. And the Catholic players' families. And the Catholic Stewards, IFA Staff, PSNI duty officers, Journalists and God knows who else. And even a rather well-known Catholic Priest from Down (regular supporter, though I doubt he wears the collar).
That must account for the regular reports of Taigs getting their heads kicked in at Windsor which emerge after every NI game. You know, these attacks which are all over the papers, TV, Radio and Internet, and which fill the A&E Wards and lead to PSNI investigations, appeals for information and arrests....
P.S. I must remember to kick my old mate Julian's head in, the next time I bump into him at Windsor. Tbh, he goes that often I kinda forgot he's a Taig.
What about the Catholics in the Aviva who had to listen to all these lads singing about rifles and pistols and the YCV?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3ZgfdQeBjs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3ZgfdQeBjs)
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 19, 2011, 09:28:29 AM
Absolutely not lies I have had first hand experience of some so called supporters from Portadown.
So we've gone from "endemic" to "some" in one post. Right so. ::)
As I said, total lies; you can't even get your story straight with yourself FFS!
I'm sure you aren't aware but Portadown supporters have built a very, very good relationship with supporters from Drogheda to such an extent that very often Drogs fans have travelled as far as Ballyclare to support Portadown when they haven't had a game. You aren't aware of this because you know f*** all about Portadown FC or it's fans despite what you might think.
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 19, 2011, 02:44:53 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 19, 2011, 12:28:49 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2011, 09:25:39 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 17, 2011, 07:27:58 PM
Why so?
What exactly do you think might happen to you at a football match between NI and the Faroes, on an August night in Belfast? ???
I'd be afraid of getting my head kicked in if anyone were to find out I was a fenian.
So Jermoan Quinn can attend an NI game (in GAA top and all) and no-one says a word to him. Caral niCuillin, too. And the Clarke brothers. And Dillinger's friends. And Armagh Stew (in Chicago). And the Catholic members of my supporters' Club. And the Catholic players' families. And the Catholic Stewards, IFA Staff, PSNI duty officers, Journalists and God knows who else. And even a rather well-known Catholic Priest from Down (regular supporter, though I doubt he wears the collar).
That must account for the regular reports of Taigs getting their heads kicked in at Windsor which emerge after every NI game. You know, these attacks which are all over the papers, TV, Radio and Internet, and which fill the A&E Wards and lead to PSNI investigations, appeals for information and arrests....
P.S. I must remember to kick my old mate Julian's head in, the next time I bump into him at Windsor. Tbh, he goes that often I kinda forgot he's a Taig.
What about the Catholics in the Aviva who had to listen to all these lads singing about rifles and pistols and the YCV?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3ZgfdQeBjs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3ZgfdQeBjs)
Sadly some people still think they can act like w@nkers when they please. See Stew's last post. I wouldn't judge 14,000 that attend Windsor Pk to support their country by looking at a dozen dicks on a piss-up in Dublin. Small samples can lead to a massive margin of error.
Quote from: Tonto on August 19, 2011, 02:52:01 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 19, 2011, 09:28:29 AM
Absolutely not lies I have had first hand experience of some so called supporters from Portadown.
So we've gone from "endemic" to "some" in one post. Right so. ::)
As I said, total lies; you can't even get your story straight with yourself FFS!
I'm sure you aren't aware but Portadown supporters have built a very, very good relationship with supporters from Drogheda to such an extent that very often Drogs fans have travelled as far as Ballyclare to support Portadown when they haven't had a game. You aren't aware of this because you know f*** all about Portadown FC or it's fans despite what you might think.
Resort to swearing when defending the indefensible. Whilst i would accept that there are many genuine Portadown fans I will reiterate I have first hand experience of so called fans of Portadown FC and to borrow your vernacular you know F*** All of my experiences and are in no position to call me a liar.
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 19, 2011, 03:09:32 PM
Quote from: Tonto on August 19, 2011, 02:52:01 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 19, 2011, 09:28:29 AM
Absolutely not lies I have had first hand experience of some so called supporters from Portadown.
So we've gone from "endemic" to "some" in one post. Right so. ::)
As I said, total lies; you can't even get your story straight with yourself FFS!
I'm sure you aren't aware but Portadown supporters have built a very, very good relationship with supporters from Drogheda to such an extent that very often Drogs fans have travelled as far as Ballyclare to support Portadown when they haven't had a game. You aren't aware of this because you know f*** all about Portadown FC or it's fans despite what you might think.
Resort to swearing when defending the indefensible. Whilst i would accept that there are many genuine Portadown fans I will reiterate I have first hand experience of so called fans of Portadown FC and to borrow your vernacular you know F*** All of my experiences and are in no position to call me a liar.
I'm not defending the indefensible; I'm defending the supporters of Portadown from your lies. You said sectarianism was "endemic" at Shamrock Pk and whilst I know nothing of your experiences elsewhere I know that that is utter lies.
Portadown - is that the one run by the UVF or the LVF? I'm always forgetting.
Quote from: Tonto on August 19, 2011, 03:16:14 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 19, 2011, 03:09:32 PM
Quote from: Tonto on August 19, 2011, 02:52:01 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 19, 2011, 09:28:29 AM
Absolutely not lies I have had first hand experience of some so called supporters from Portadown.
So we've gone from "endemic" to "some" in one post. Right so. ::)
As I said, total lies; you can't even get your story straight with yourself FFS!
I'm sure you aren't aware but Portadown supporters have built a very, very good relationship with supporters from Drogheda to such an extent that very often Drogs fans have travelled as far as Ballyclare to support Portadown when they haven't had a game. You aren't aware of this because you know f*** all about Portadown FC or it's fans despite what you might think.
Resort to swearing when defending the indefensible. Whilst i would accept that there are many genuine Portadown fans I will reiterate I have first hand experience of so called fans of Portadown FC and to borrow your vernacular you know F*** All of my experiences and are in no position to call me a liar.
I'm not defending the indefensible; I'm defending the supporters of Portadown from your lies. You said sectarianism was "endemic" at Shamrock Pk and whilst I know nothing of your experiences elsewhere I know that that is utter lies.
Well I suppose it depends on how you define sectarianism doesn't it.
Quote from: Ulick on August 19, 2011, 04:31:03 PM
Portadown - is that the one run by the UVF or the LVF? I'm always forgetting.
LVF. Belfast soccer supporters tend to be more aligned with the UVF.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 19, 2011, 06:03:35 PM
Quote from: Ulick on August 19, 2011, 04:31:03 PM
Portadown - is that the one run by the UVF or the LVF? I'm always forgetting.
LVF. Belfast soccer supporters tend to be more aligned with the UVF.
Well it's hard to remember considering their links to the Jamisons (UVF) but then again Billy Wright's (LVF) bagman was a Director or accountant or something. I suppose that explains all those UVF/LVF fistfights in the club bar.
Quote from: Applesisapples link=topic=20018.msg1005216#msg1005216
/quote]
You think? Take a trip to Windsor or Shamrock Park some Saturday and you'll see that sectarianism is endemic in NI soccer.
You been there latley to hear any? When Cliftonville surportors come to Seaview some of them sing I.R.A. That's the only sectarianism i have heard in a long time, the Crusaders fans boo it but do not respond with Loyalist songs.
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 19, 2011, 04:47:48 PM
Quote from: Tonto on August 19, 2011, 03:16:14 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 19, 2011, 03:09:32 PM
Quote from: Tonto on August 19, 2011, 02:52:01 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 19, 2011, 09:28:29 AM
Absolutely not lies I have had first hand experience of some so called supporters from Portadown.
So we've gone from "endemic" to "some" in one post. Right so. ::)
As I said, total lies; you can't even get your story straight with yourself FFS!
I'm sure you aren't aware but Portadown supporters have built a very, very good relationship with supporters from Drogheda to such an extent that very often Drogs fans have travelled as far as Ballyclare to support Portadown when they haven't had a game. You aren't aware of this because you know f*** all about Portadown FC or it's fans despite what you might think.
Resort to swearing when defending the indefensible. Whilst i would accept that there are many genuine Portadown fans I will reiterate I have first hand experience of so called fans of Portadown FC and to borrow your vernacular you know F*** All of my experiences and are in no position to call me a liar.
I'm not defending the indefensible; I'm defending the supporters of Portadown from your lies. You said sectarianism was "endemic" at Shamrock Pk and whilst I know nothing of your experiences elsewhere I know that that is utter lies.
Well I suppose it depends on how you define sectarianism doesn't it.
No, it depends on how YOU define "sectarianism". Tell me, please, what is your definition of "sectarianism" that you see as "endemic" at Shamrock Pk?
Quote from: Ulick on August 19, 2011, 04:31:03 PM
Portadown - is that the one run by the UVF or the LVF? I'm always forgetting.
Go on then Donagh; who is it that "runs" Portadown that is in the UVF or LVF? I'd be careful about making allegations if I was you.
And regards your post about "all the fist-fights" it is true to say that about ten years ago there was one brawl in the bar in the club. Not sure (a.) what this has got to do with "sectarianism" (or are you engaging in whataboutery) ,( b.) what this has got to do with the atmosphere at Portadown matches today or (c.) how this relates to Portadown fans in general.
Most sizeable settlements in NI had a problem with paramilitarism during and immediately after the Troubles, Portadown is no exception it's true, but that hardly means that Shamrock Pk is somehow a sectarian cauldron.
Finally, Dillinger is sadly correct about sectarianism at Solitude. I might also add that I have heard IRA chants (as part of the Fields of Athenry) from Donegal Celtic fans and Newry City fans. I don't judge all Newry, DC or Cliftonville fans and I wouldn't say that sectarianism is "endemic" at their grounds; I would appreciate it greatly if that was reciprocated.
Sorry Tonto, I thought it was you who brought Portadown into the discussion, I was only replying to that. Let's face it, it's one thing trying to convince us Fenians would be safe in Windsor Park at an NI match. Hell even I could hold my nose for 90 minutes and ignore the slack-jawed, Burberry-clad, chavs chanting about being up to their necks in Fenian blood, but trying to tell us a Fenian would be safe in Shamrock Park is another thing altogether. Seriously like, are you trying to say Robbie Hamill's family would be safe there or even some of the foreign nationals who were forced out of their homes in Portadown the other week?
As for the paramilitary connections, well why are you asking me, you should know yourself, or is there more than one helicopter-flying drug-dealing loyalist gangster over there?
Quote from: Ulick on August 20, 2011, 10:11:38 AM
Sorry Tonto, I thought it was you who brought Portadown into the discussion, I was only replying to that. Let's face it, it's one thing trying to convince us Fenians would be safe in Windsor Park at an NI match. Hell even I could hold my nose for 90 minutes and ignore the slack-jawed, Burberry-clad, chavs chanting about being up to their necks in Fenian blood, but trying to tell us a Fenian would be safe in Shamrock Park is another thing altogether. Seriously like, are you trying to say Robbie Hamill's family would be safe there or even some of the foreign nationals who were forced out of their homes in Portadown the other week?
As for the paramilitary connections, well why are you asking me, you should know yourself, or is there more than one helicopter-flying drug-dealing loyalist gangster over there?
No Donagh, you are mistaken, applesisapples mentioned Shamrock Pk and how sectarianism was "endemic".
As for the slack-jawed, Burberry-clad reference; I deem that to be thinly veiled sectarianism because that image you have conjured up bears no resemblance to my experience at NI matches, including the particular song you mention.
Using a murdered man to make a point is low, Donagh. It happened in Portadown, but considering Portadown has a population of probably 20,000 and about 300 turn up for matches every week, there's a very good chance it has nothing to do with Portadown fans.
Who are you talking about, Donagh? Name names.
Quote from: dillinger on August 19, 2011, 09:26:41 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples link=topic=20018.msg1005216#msg1005216
/quote]
You think? Take a trip to Windsor or Shamrock Park some Saturday and you'll see that sectarianism is endemic in NI soccer.
You been there latley to hear any? When Cliftonville surportors come to Seaview some of them sing I.R.A. That's the only sectarianism i have heard in a long time, the Crusaders fans boo it but do not respond with Loyalist songs.
:D :D Yeah coarse they don't
Quote from: Tonto on August 20, 2011, 10:22:05 AM
No Donagh, you are mistaken, applesisapples mentioned Shamrock Pk and how sectarianism was "endemic".
As for the slack-jawed, Burberry-clad reference; I deem that to be thinly veiled sectarianism because that image you have conjured up bears no resemblance to my experience at NI matches, including the particular song you mention.
Using a murdered man to make a point is low, Donagh. It happened in Portadown, but considering Portadown has a population of probably 20,000 and about 300 turn up for matches every week, there's a very good chance it has nothing to do with Portadown fans.
Who are you talking about, Donagh? Name names.
Oh please, spare us the mock indignation. The world and his wife knows Portadown FC was nothing more that a loyalist drinking den and money laundering operation for a long time. Where do you want me to start - Robin Jackson holding meetings there in the 70s to plan the murder of Catholics? Maybe that's before your time. How about Richard Jameson whom I know you are very well aware. The top man in the mid-Ulster UVF, made millions along with his brothers out of security force contracts (strange that). Portadown FC were happy to take sponsorship money from Jameson and involve in him their club despite everyone knowing he was top dog in the UVF. Well they would do, his two brothers were sitting as Directors on the club Board weren't they? Jameson himself sadly met his demise during a UVF/LVF feud which was sparked off after a confrontation in, wait for it, Portadown FC social club bar!! His brother Bobby good fine upstanding civic fella his is, and now IFA big-shot, later took it upon himself to save Portadown from the scourge of loyalist paramilitarism by painting out paramilitary murals - only he didn't paint them all out, he left all the UVF ones. Strange that... Then there was Mark McKinney who used to use Shamrock Park as his own personal helipad. McKinney, long time associate of Billy Wright, as you know was another Portadown FC Director who ran a major smuggling operation for loyalist paramilitaries. As a result of being caught out, he had his visible assets taken off him not too long ago by the Assets Recovery Agency.
Ay come all ye Fenians over to Shamrock Park, you're sure to find a warm welcome.
Quote from: Tonto on August 20, 2011, 10:22:05 AM
Quote from: Ulick on August 20, 2011, 10:11:38 AM
Sorry Tonto, I thought it was you who brought Portadown into the discussion, I was only replying to that. Let's face it, it's one thing trying to convince us Fenians would be safe in Windsor Park at an NI match. Hell even I could hold my nose for 90 minutes and ignore the slack-jawed, Burberry-clad, chavs chanting about being up to their necks in Fenian blood, but trying to tell us a Fenian would be safe in Shamrock Park is another thing altogether. Seriously like, are you trying to say Robbie Hamill's family would be safe there or even some of the foreign nationals who were forced out of their homes in Portadown the other week?
As for the paramilitary connections, well why are you asking me, you should know yourself, or is there more than one helicopter-flying drug-dealing loyalist gangster over there?
No Donagh, you are mistaken, applesisapples mentioned Shamrock Pk and how sectarianism was "endemic".
As for the slack-jawed, Burberry-clad reference; I deem that to be thinly veiled sectarianism because that image you have conjured up bears no resemblance to my experience at NI matches, including the particular song you mention.
Using a murdered man to make a point is low, Donagh. It happened in Portadown, but considering Portadown has a population of probably 20,000 and about 300 turn up for matches every week, there's a very good chance it has nothing to do with Portadown fans.
Who are you talking about, Donagh? Name names.
Tonto, no examples I can give will shake your belief that Portadown and Portadown FC is not sectarian. The fact that most of their fans do not consider the flags emblems and chants as sectarian doesn't mean that others don't as I said depends on your definition. and I have had first hand experience of the sectarian and violent conduct of your so called supporters in Portadown. One question would I be safe walking in to Gary's Bar or Jamisons with my Celtic, Ireland or Armagh gear on?