Im just curious and ive never heard an estimate, but all i keep hearing today is how many people are in favour of the this visit (on my birthday of all days),and only 100 protesting but i always reply fck all Irish fought for our freedom either, i reckon under 1000 out of 5 million...? PLease correct me.
i had 2600 in my head for the entire easter rising i.e. f**k all
Quote from: Banana Man on May 17, 2011, 03:21:33 PM
i had 2600 in my head for the entire easter rising i.e. f**k all
What the fck were the other 4,997,400 doing? Were they cowards, were they brit lovers, did they not care and have the me fein atitude as todays Irish have?
When you look back at that stat, im sure its not far off, isnt it shameful and embarrasing that so little had the courage and conviction to fight?
Not surprising when you think of what is happening in Dublin today.
Oh an a Happy Birthday to you!!
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on May 17, 2011, 03:51:59 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on May 17, 2011, 03:21:33 PM
i had 2600 in my head for the entire easter rising i.e. f**k all
What the fck were the other 4,997,400 doing? Were they cowards, were they brit lovers, did they not care and have the me fein atitude as todays Irish have?
When you look back at that stat, im sure its not far off, isnt it shameful and embarrasing that so little had the courage and conviction to fight?
From what I remember reading, the Irish back then didn't have an appetite to change the status quo, but the shootings of the rebels angered the country and that's when the real fight began.
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on May 17, 2011, 03:51:59 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on May 17, 2011, 03:21:33 PM
i had 2600 in my head for the entire easter rising i.e. f**k all
What the fck were the other 4,997,400 doing? Were they cowards, were they brit lovers, did they not care and have the me fein atitude as todays Irish have?
When you look back at that stat, im sure its not far off, isnt it shameful and embarrasing that so little had the courage and conviction to fight?
You have a very simplistic outlook on everything Sligonian.
The fact that there weren't 5 million people jammed into the GPO does not mean they were all cowards, West Brits or mé féiners.
Do you forget (or did you never know) that the rising had been called off? Most of the units down the country never received anything to say that it was going to go ahead.
And I'm sure others were quite happy to follow the Home Rule approach rather than start an unwinnable war against the British Empire.
And yes, there were probably plenty who weren't too bothered who was in charge as it probably would have fck all effect on their day to day lives.
Quote from: ziggysego on May 17, 2011, 03:56:40 PM
From what I remember reading, the Irish back then didn't have an appetite to change the status quo, but the shootings of the rebels angered the country and that's when the real fight began.
Was Quo playing Dublin in 1916? Rossi is older than he looks.
Quote from: Agent Orange on May 17, 2011, 03:59:55 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on May 17, 2011, 03:56:40 PM
From what I remember reading, the Irish back then didn't have an appetite to change the status quo, but the shootings of the rebels angered the country and that's when the real fight began.
Was Quo playing Dublin in 1916? Rossi is older than he looks.
It's a bit timey wimey :D
Quote from: Tubberman on May 17, 2011, 03:58:13 PM
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on May 17, 2011, 03:51:59 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on May 17, 2011, 03:21:33 PM
i had 2600 in my head for the entire easter rising i.e. f**k all
What the fck were the other 4,997,400 doing? Were they cowards, were they brit lovers, did they not care and have the me fein atitude as todays Irish have?
When you look back at that stat, im sure its not far off, isnt it shameful and embarrasing that so little had the courage and conviction to fight?
You have a very simplistic outlook on everything Sligonian.
The fact that there weren't 5 million people jammed into the GPO does not mean they were all cowards, West Brits or mé féiners.
Do you forget (or did you never know) that the rising had been called off? Most of the units down the country never received anything to say that it was going to go ahead.
And I'm sure others were quite happy to follow the Home Rule approach rather than start an unwinnable war against the British Empire.
And yes, there were probably plenty who weren't too bothered who was in charge as it probably would have fck all effect on their day to day lives.
100% correct, not to mention the glorious catholic church were also totally anti IRB and feared their socialist intentions (or more like the possibility that they would lose influence in society), threatening to excommunicate those involved.
Quote from: Agent Orange on May 17, 2011, 03:59:55 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on May 17, 2011, 03:56:40 PM
From what I remember reading, the Irish back then didn't have an appetite to change the status quo, but the shootings of the rebels angered the country and that's when the real fight began.
Was Quo playing Dublin in 1916? Rossi is older than he looks.
Whereas Rick Parfitt looks every one of his 115 years
Quote from: Tubberman on May 17, 2011, 03:58:13 PM
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on May 17, 2011, 03:51:59 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on May 17, 2011, 03:21:33 PM
i had 2600 in my head for the entire easter rising i.e. f**k all
What the fck were the other 4,997,400 doing? Were they cowards, were they brit lovers, did they not care and have the me fein atitude as todays Irish have?
When you look back at that stat, im sure its not far off, isnt it shameful and embarrasing that so little had the courage and conviction to fight?
You have a very simplistic outlook on everything Sligonian.
The fact that there weren't 5 million people jammed into the GPO does not mean they were all cowards, West Brits or mé féiners.
Do you forget (or did you never know) that the rising had been called off? Most of the units down the country never received anything to say that it was going to go ahead.
And I'm sure others were quite happy to follow the Home Rule approach rather than start an unwinnable war against the British Empire.
And yes, there were probably plenty who weren't too bothered who was in charge as it probably would have fck all effect on their day to day lives.
Seriously in your head does that justify and excuse that amount of people, down the country doesnt wash either, sure there not far off 1 million in Dublin alone, 2600 youd get more at league of Ireland match ffs.
Myles anyone afraid of the catholic church even back then were cowards imo.
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on May 17, 2011, 03:51:59 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on May 17, 2011, 03:21:33 PM
i had 2600 in my head for the entire easter rising i.e. f**k all
What the fck were the other 4,997,400 doing? Were they cowards, were they brit lovers, did they not care and have the me fein atitude as todays Irish have?
When you look back at that stat, im sure its not far off, isnt it shameful and embarrasing that so little had the courage and conviction to fight?
No. Joe Lee has a very good take on this, how the British capacity for violence was so overwhelming that it could be said to not exist, i.e. even the threat of it was enough to cow the natives. They could say with a straight face that they were not the aggressors even though this was the exact opposite of the truth, that any attempt at political change had to seen through the prism of that threat - which, of course, it wasn't and never has been
Quote from: ziggysego on May 17, 2011, 03:56:40 PM
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on May 17, 2011, 03:51:59 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on May 17, 2011, 03:21:33 PM
i had 2600 in my head for the entire easter rising i.e. f**k all
What the fck were the other 4,997,400 doing? Were they cowards, were they brit lovers, did they not care and have the me fein atitude as todays Irish have?
When you look back at that stat, im sure its not far off, isnt it shameful and embarrasing that so little had the courage and conviction to fight?
From what I remember reading, the Irish back then didn't have an appetite to change the status quo, but the shootings of the rebels angered the country and that's when the real fight began.
Ireland had it's parliament, the 4 green fields were united and were close to the heart of the empire (In the Army now and able to rock all over the world).
The Easter rising had no real support among the people. I have read that those arrested were booed and jeered in the street when they were being taken away like so many spare parts.
The needless executions were the perfect remedy, a real pile driver to the nation consience, and changed all that. The British lost Irish "hearts and minds" and created the martyrs famous in the last century which fueled the War of independance and subsequent campaigns.
I aint complaining but Just supposin the executions had not taken place would we be living on an Island still completely under British rule.
While a lot of what you say I'd have sympathy for you only have to look at the last general election to see that the country is full of idiots. What do you do with an extremely unpopular government who were (rightly in my book) blamed for leading the country to economic ruin? Replace them with people who will follow pretty much the same policies. We're a nation of cretins from what I can see, nothing short of a miracle that we got 26 of the 32 counties freed for a while (until we handed our sovereignty to the Germans/French for a few roads).
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on May 17, 2011, 04:16:07 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on May 17, 2011, 03:58:13 PM
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on May 17, 2011, 03:51:59 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on May 17, 2011, 03:21:33 PM
i had 2600 in my head for the entire easter rising i.e. f**k all
What the fck were the other 4,997,400 doing? Were they cowards, were they brit lovers, did they not care and have the me fein atitude as todays Irish have?
When you look back at that stat, im sure its not far off, isnt it shameful and embarrasing that so little had the courage and conviction to fight?
You have a very simplistic outlook on everything Sligonian.
The fact that there weren't 5 million people jammed into the GPO does not mean they were all cowards, West Brits or mé féiners.
Do you forget (or did you never know) that the rising had been called off? Most of the units down the country never received anything to say that it was going to go ahead.
And I'm sure others were quite happy to follow the Home Rule approach rather than start an unwinnable war against the British Empire.
And yes, there were probably plenty who weren't too bothered who was in charge as it probably would have fck all effect on their day to day lives.
Seriously in your head does that justify and excuse that amount of people, down the country doesnt wash either, sure there not far off 1 million in Dublin alone, 2600 youd get more at league of Ireland match ffs.
Myles anyone afraid of the catholic church even back then were cowards imo.
I've given you some possible reasons why people didn't take part - I'm not trying to justify or excuse anything.
I don't think you are owed a justification or an excuse either by the way; who are you to decide people almost 100 years ago were cowards? We today are very far removed from the situation back then.
What about all those in the north who weren't active members of the IRA - are they all cowards, west brits and mé féiners as well?
The price of the tickets is a joke in this day and age, plus it was on TV and the football on offer isn't up to much in fairness, wait till the bandwagon gets going......
2600, Oh wait, ye are discussing the 1916 rising, i thought it was the expected average attendence at this weekends championship match.....carry on.
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on May 17, 2011, 03:51:59 PM
What the fck were the other 4,997,400 doing? Were they cowards, were they brit lovers, did they not care and have the me fein atitude as todays Irish have?
Ever hear of Eoin Mac Neill (Michael Mc Dowell's grandfather), who issued a countermand just before the Rising was to take place, causing the virtual wholesale cancellation of the Rising outside of Dublin?
The best way to figure out the number of leaders is to look at the number of politicians who are related to 'leaders of the 1916 rising' and then work your way back, that should leave us with a figure of roughly the 5M that Sligonian was referring to earlier.
At any given time in the last 250 years the vast majority of Irish nationalists have favoured constitutional routes to changes in the relationship with Britain, with the possible exception of the few years after the Easter Rising executions up to the signing of the Treaty.
I think people have always had to balance whether armed insurrection was worth it in terms of blood that would be shed, and importantly whether there was any chance of success. In 1916 even politically-minded nationalists wouldn't seriously have thought Ireland (or a part of it) would have been able to have independence in the next decade, and would rightly have thought what is the point in getting killed in another of the pantheon of historical failed uprisings.
Quote from: LeoMc on May 17, 2011, 04:31:00 PM
The Easter rising had no real support among the people. I have read that those arrested were booed and jeered in the street when they were being taken away like so many spare parts.The needless executions were the perfect remedy, a real pile driver to the nation consience, and changed all that. The British lost Irish "hearts and minds" and created the martyrs famous in the last century which fueled the War of independance and subsequent campaigns.
I aint complaining but Just supposin the executions had not taken place would we be living on an Island still completely under British rule.
Another narrative of the Rising given short shrift by Joe Lee. There was a rent-a-mob attacking the rebels that consisted mostly of those whose living was most closely linked to that of the Britsh Army. The Dublin papers were ruthlessly censored, with William Martin Murphy's Indo only too happy to parrot the official line as part of his spat with Connolly. Lee went to the bother of reading the uncensored provincial newspapers which were quite sympathetic to the Rising, the main quibble being the futile loss of life - there's that omnipresent-yet-unspoken threat of extreme state violence again, a threat that incidentally was useless in the face of Unionist rebellion as the Currragh Mutiny demonstrated
Quote from: Rav67 on May 17, 2011, 04:53:36 PM
At any given time in the last 250 years the vast majority of Irish nationalists have favoured constitutional routes to changes in the relationship with Britain, with the possible exception of the few years after the Easter Rising executions up to the signing of the Treaty.
I think people have always had to balance whether armed insurrection was worth it in terms of blood that would be shed, and importantly whether there was any chance of success. In 1916 even politically-minded nationalists wouldn't seriously have thought Ireland (or a part of it) would have been able to have independence in the next decade, and would rightly have thought what is the point in getting killed in another of the pantheon of historical failed uprisings.
+1. You mention the use of 'constitutional routes'. One of the roadblocks on that route would always be the House of Lords, an institution that all through the Victorian era felt confident enough to automatically reject any legislation passed by the House of Commons regarding Ireland if that majority in the Commons was secured only by the block vote of the Irish MP's, the Irish votes not really counting.