If players and fans could get their heads round some basic rules referees might have more of a chance....... For example:
A rolling ball can NOT be picked straight up
There is no such thing in the rule book as a 2 man or 3 man tackle. 15 players can tackle 1 as long as they do it within the rules of the tackle. There is nothing in the rule book says only 1 person can tackle another at any given time
Umpires cannot call fouls. They can only give an opinion IF ASKED by the ref.
I know refs can be mighty inconsistent at times but if folks knew the basic rules it would stop a lot of ill informed slabberin
Good point Mr Sludden ;D
The annoying one is in hurling when someone lays on the ball deliberately and the ref will give a throw ball when it should be a free.
Quote from: nrico2006 on May 06, 2011, 08:28:36 AM
The annoying one is in hurling when someone lays on the ball deliberately and the ref will give a throw ball when it should be a free.
Especially goal keepers, where it should be a 21 yard free.
When a player goes to ground with the ball, then releases it and then traps it between his legs while still on the ground. What decision should trhe referee make?
Quote from: johnneycool on May 06, 2011, 09:33:14 AM
Quote from: nrico2006 on May 06, 2011, 08:28:36 AM
The annoying one is in hurling when someone lays on the ball deliberately and the ref will give a throw ball when it should be a free.
Especially goal keepers, where it should be a 21 yard free.
Except Brian Gavin, who gave Waterford a last minute 20 metre free to get a draw when Donal Óg tried to hatch the sliotar.
Quote from: tyroneman on May 05, 2011, 10:13:33 PM
A rolling ball can NOT be picked straight up
If a player loses their feet, ie if they have fallen to the ground and are not standing, is it not correct that they can play the ball (by punching or hitting it) with their hands, to move the ball ?
Obviously you can pick it off the ground, but I always was under the impression that you can touch the ball if you are on the ground yourself.
Quote from: AbbeySider on May 06, 2011, 09:58:36 AM
Quote from: tyroneman on May 05, 2011, 10:13:33 PM
A rolling ball can NOT be picked straight up
If a player loses their feet, ie if they have fallen to the ground and are not standing, is it not correct that they can play the ball (by punching or hitting it) with their hands, to move the ball ?
Obviously you can pick it off the ground, but I always was under the impression that you can touch the ball if you are on the ground yourself.
I believe the rule is that if you are 'in danger' and onthe ground, you can play the ball 'away from yourself' with the hand.
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 06, 2011, 10:02:41 AM
Quote from: AbbeySider on May 06, 2011, 09:58:36 AM
Quote from: tyroneman on May 05, 2011, 10:13:33 PM
A rolling ball can NOT be picked straight up
If a player loses their feet, ie if they have fallen to the ground and are not standing, is it not correct that they can play the ball (by punching or hitting it) with their hands, to move the ball ?
Obviously you can pick it off the ground, but I always was under the impression that you can touch the ball if you are on the ground yourself.
I believe the rule is that if you are 'in danger' and onthe ground, you can play the ball 'away from yourself' with the hand.
Now, how in the name of God do you define that :D
In a penalty in football, the goalkeeper CANNOT advance from the goal line until the ball is kicked. The goalkeeper can move along the line (unlike soccer) but CANNOT advance from the line.
Funny thing is I can't remember when someone was pulled up on this last.
Quote from: Tubberman on May 06, 2011, 10:20:20 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 06, 2011, 10:02:41 AM
Quote from: AbbeySider on May 06, 2011, 09:58:36 AM
Quote from: tyroneman on May 05, 2011, 10:13:33 PM
A rolling ball can NOT be picked straight up
If a player loses their feet, ie if they have fallen to the ground and are not standing, is it not correct that they can play the ball (by punching or hitting it) with their hands, to move the ball ?
Obviously you can pick it off the ground, but I always was under the impression that you can touch the ball if you are on the ground yourself.
I believe the rule is that if you are 'in danger' and onthe ground, you can play the ball 'away from yourself' with the hand.
Now, how in the name of God do you define that :D
If there is anyone near you, and they might pull on the ball. Not that difficult :)
Quote from: AbbeySider on May 06, 2011, 09:58:36 AM
Quote from: tyroneman on May 05, 2011, 10:13:33 PM
A rolling ball can NOT be picked straight up
If a player loses their feet, ie if they have fallen to the ground and are not standing, is it not correct that they can play the ball (by punching or hitting it) with their hands, to move the ball ?
Obviously you can pick it off the ground, but I always was under the impression that you can touch the ball if you are on the ground yourself.
Lads the rule is simple, it does not directly mention danger. But the player must have been in possession before falling to play the ball on the ground:
Rule 1.2 - When the ball is on the ground, it may be played by any part of the body except the hand(s). It may be lifted off the ground with the feet.
Exceptions
(i) The goalkeeper may play the ball on the ground with his hand(s) inside his own small rectangle.
(ii) Any player who falls or is knocked to the ground while in possession of the ball may fist or palm the ball away on the ground, and may score by so doing.
(iii) The ball may not be lifted off the ground with the knees.
Quote from: PAULD123 on May 06, 2011, 10:54:10 AM
Quote from: AbbeySider on May 06, 2011, 09:58:36 AM
Quote from: tyroneman on May 05, 2011, 10:13:33 PM
A rolling ball can NOT be picked straight up
If a player loses their feet, ie if they have fallen to the ground and are not standing, is it not correct that they can play the ball (by punching or hitting it) with their hands, to move the ball ?
Obviously you can pick it off the ground, but I always was under the impression that you can touch the ball if you are on the ground yourself.
Lads the rule is simple, it does not directly mention danger. But the player must have been in possession before falling to play the ball on the ground:
Rule 1.2 - When the ball is on the ground, it may be played by any part of the body except the hand(s). It may be lifted off the ground with the feet.
Exceptions
(i) The goalkeeper may play the ball on the ground with his hand(s) inside his own small rectangle.
(ii) Any player who falls or is knocked to the ground while in possession of the ball may fist or palm the ball away on the ground, and may score by so doing.
(iii) The ball may not be lifted off the ground with the knees.
That's it Paul. As you correctly say there is no mention of danger, but I think most refs in the country will give a free if you play the ball on the ground like that, and are not under pressure.
Quote from: FERDIE on May 06, 2011, 09:51:18 AM
When a player goes to ground with the ball, then releases it and then traps it between his legs while still on the ground. What decision should trhe referee make?
If the player is holding the ball on the ground while he himself is on the ground then he is lying on it (even if he is face up) this is a technical foul:
RULE 4 - TECHNICAL FOULS
4.1 To overcarry or overhold the ball.
4.2 (a) To throw the ball. (b) To handpass the ball without a definite striking action.
4.3 To lift the ball off the ground with the knees.
4.4 To lie on the ball.
4.5 To touch the ball on the ground with the hand(s), except as provided in Rule 1.2.
4.6 To bounce the ball more than once consecutively after catching it.
4.7 To play the ball up with the hand(s) and catch it again before it touches the ground, another player, or goal-posts.
4.8 To wrest the ball from an opponent who has caught the ball.
4.9 For an attacking player to enter opponents' small rectangle before the ball enters it during play.
PENALTY FOR ABOVE FOULS - Free kick
from where the foul occurred
1. If you are from Cork, you can do what you like in either football or hurling and you will not be suspended.
2. Frank Murphy is the rule maker
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 06, 2011, 10:59:28 AM
Quote from: PAULD123 on May 06, 2011, 10:54:10 AM
Quote from: AbbeySider on May 06, 2011, 09:58:36 AM
Quote from: tyroneman on May 05, 2011, 10:13:33 PM
A rolling ball can NOT be picked straight up
If a player loses their feet, ie if they have fallen to the ground and are not standing, is it not correct that they can play the ball (by punching or hitting it) with their hands, to move the ball ?
Obviously you can pick it off the ground, but I always was under the impression that you can touch the ball if you are on the ground yourself.
Lads the rule is simple, it does not directly mention danger. But the player must have been in possession before falling to play the ball on the ground:
Rule 1.2 - When the ball is on the ground, it may be played by any part of the body except the hand(s). It may be lifted off the ground with the feet.
Exceptions
(i) The goalkeeper may play the ball on the ground with his hand(s) inside his own small rectangle.
(ii) Any player who falls or is knocked to the ground while in possession of the ball may fist or palm the ball away on the ground, and may score by so doing.
(iii) The ball may not be lifted off the ground with the knees.
That's it Paul. As you correctly say there is no mention of danger, but I think most refs in the country will give a free if you play the ball on the ground like that, and are not under pressure.
I don't think a ref would, any I have spoken to know the rule. I think the problem comes from the word possession. You have to be in possession when you fall. If you release the ball then fall, then you cannot touch it on the ground. When I was playing everyone at the club knew the rule. The thing I didn't know is that you can score from it, for example If Joe Sheridan had placed the ball on the goal line and then pushed it over, the goal against Louth would have been perfectly legal.
But as regards a ref giving a free if you are under no pressure; if you fall over and are under no pressure why would you play the ball away with your hand? Surely you would just get up and continue on?
Quote from: PAULD123 on May 06, 2011, 11:22:24 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 06, 2011, 10:59:28 AM
Quote from: PAULD123 on May 06, 2011, 10:54:10 AM
Quote from: AbbeySider on May 06, 2011, 09:58:36 AM
Quote from: tyroneman on May 05, 2011, 10:13:33 PM
A rolling ball can NOT be picked straight up
If a player loses their feet, ie if they have fallen to the ground and are not standing, is it not correct that they can play the ball (by punching or hitting it) with their hands, to move the ball ?
Obviously you can pick it off the ground, but I always was under the impression that you can touch the ball if you are on the ground yourself.
Lads the rule is simple, it does not directly mention danger. But the player must have been in possession before falling to play the ball on the ground:
Rule 1.2 - When the ball is on the ground, it may be played by any part of the body except the hand(s). It may be lifted off the ground with the feet.
Exceptions
(i) The goalkeeper may play the ball on the ground with his hand(s) inside his own small rectangle.
(ii) Any player who falls or is knocked to the ground while in possession of the ball may fist or palm the ball away on the ground, and may score by so doing.
(iii) The ball may not be lifted off the ground with the knees.
That's it Paul. As you correctly say there is no mention of danger, but I think most refs in the country will give a free if you play the ball on the ground like that, and are not under pressure.
I don't think a ref would, any I have spoken to know the rule. I think the problem comes from the word possession. You have to be in possession when you fall. If you release the ball then fall, then you cannot touch it on the ground. When I was playing everyone at the club knew the rule. The thing I didn't know is that you can score from it, for example If Joe Sheridan had placed the ball on the goal line and then pushed it over, the goal against Louth would have been perfectly legal.
But as regards a ref giving a free if you are under no pressure; if you fall over and are under no pressure why would you play the ball away with your hand? Surely you would just get up and continue on?
I always thought that in hurling you couldn't score a goal whilst in possession of the ball, i.e. carry it over the line on the hurl or hand, is that the same thing?
Quote from: PAULD123 on May 06, 2011, 11:22:24 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 06, 2011, 10:59:28 AM
Quote from: PAULD123 on May 06, 2011, 10:54:10 AM
Quote from: AbbeySider on May 06, 2011, 09:58:36 AM
Quote from: tyroneman on May 05, 2011, 10:13:33 PM
A rolling ball can NOT be picked straight up
If a player loses their feet, ie if they have fallen to the ground and are not standing, is it not correct that they can play the ball (by punching or hitting it) with their hands, to move the ball ?
Obviously you can pick it off the ground, but I always was under the impression that you can touch the ball if you are on the ground yourself.
Lads the rule is simple, it does not directly mention danger. But the player must have been in possession before falling to play the ball on the ground:
Rule 1.2 - When the ball is on the ground, it may be played by any part of the body except the hand(s). It may be lifted off the ground with the feet.
Exceptions
(i) The goalkeeper may play the ball on the ground with his hand(s) inside his own small rectangle.
(ii) Any player who falls or is knocked to the ground while in possession of the ball may fist or palm the ball away on the ground, and may score by so doing.
(iii) The ball may not be lifted off the ground with the knees.
That's it Paul. As you correctly say there is no mention of danger, but I think most refs in the country will give a free if you play the ball on the ground like that, and are not under pressure.
I don't think a ref would, any I have spoken to know the rule. I think the problem comes from the word possession. You have to be in possession when you fall. If you release the ball then fall, then you cannot touch it on the ground. When I was playing everyone at the club knew the rule. The thing I didn't know is that you can score from it, for example If Joe Sheridan had placed the ball on the goal line and then pushed it over, the goal against Louth would have been perfectly legal.
But as regards a ref giving a free if you are under no pressure; if you fall over and are under no pressure why would you play the ball away with your hand? Surely you would just get up and continue on?
Good discussion on this one but I would disagree with PAUD on what refs would do. I'd be amazed if I wasn't penalised for playing the ball in the manner allowed in the rule but maybe that's junior football refs!!!!
I was at a refereeing clinic a few years ago and distinctly remember that rule about falling while in possession of the ball, dropping it, and being able to move it along the ground with the hand. It is legal to score in that situation, although I'm not sure how many referees would know that rule.
Quote from: Denn Forever on May 06, 2011, 10:32:53 AM
In a penalty in football, the goalkeeper CANNOT advance from the goal line until the ball is kicked. The goalkeeper can move along the line (unlike soccer) but CANNOT advance from the line.
Funny thing is I can't remember when someone was pulled up on this last.
The goalkeeper can move along the line in soccer as well!
The one that absolutely dooes me in regarding how inconsistenetly its applied, is where if the ball does not travel far enough (10 metres I think) when a free is taken, this should result in a free to the other team. I've seen that rule applied in a couple of really critical events, but then it could be two years til you see it again.
Stupid, pointless inconsistent rules of that nature should be permanently consigned to the bin.
Quote from: jodyb on May 07, 2011, 09:51:40 AM
The one that absolutely dooes me in regarding how inconsistenetly its applied, is where if the ball does not travel far enough (10 metres I think) when a free is taken, this should result in a free to the other team. I've seen that rule applied in a couple of really critical events, but then it could be two years til you see it again.
Stupid, pointless inconsistent rules of that nature should be permanently consigned to the bin.
:o I didn't know that. Just shows you you can play for years, coach etc, but you still don't know the rules unless you study the book. Food for thought when we go giving out about refs. I always thought that was a throw ball, similar to taking the free from the wrong place. (which is my bug bear actually, Scoring frees, taken out of the hands, and sometimes not even in the same parish as where the free was awarded).
Quote from: FERDIE on May 06, 2011, 09:51:18 AM
When a player goes to ground with the ball, then releases it and then traps it between his legs while still on the ground. What decision should trhe referee make?
It's probably hard to define what rule this comes under but I'd say in most cases a referee would give a throw up in this instance, unless the player was actually lying on the ball,which obviously is a free against.
I really do think that all refrees would know about a player falling with possession being able to play the ball away. It is a really basic one (page one - Literally) but a lot of people may be confused by possession. The player must be holding the ball before falling, not fall and land near a ball. Honestly I think if a player falls and in doing so the ball comes free and he knocks it away that there are virtually no refrees that would give a free against him.
However some refrees may be liberal in the opposite direction. Imagine a player falls and someone is about to swing a boot at him so he knocks the ball away to save himself. Regardless of possession at the time of falling, I think a lot of refs would let him off with it in sympathy even though technically they shouldn't.
Quote from: jodyb on May 07, 2011, 09:51:40 AM
The one that absolutely dooes me in regarding how inconsistenetly its applied, is where if the ball does not travel far enough (10 metres I think) when a free is taken, this should result in a free to the other team. I've seen that rule applied in a couple of really critical events, but then it could be two years til you see it again.
Stupid, pointless inconsistent rules of that nature should be permanently consigned to the bin.
The rule is that it must travel 13 metres. I agree that this is totally inconsistently applied. I have seen free kicks travel a few metres and no sanction is given. In fact I don't think i've ever seen a free overturned for this reason ever.
I also agree that it seems a fairly pointless rule. Opposition should be 13 metres away but for your own team to have to be the same seems to be an unnecassary complication that we don't need.
The 'leg block' call seems to me to the most misused call by both supporters and players. If a ball travels through the air for any distance this is not a leg block. Foul only if one player puts foot on the ball as the other player makes contact. Would like to see the rulebook definition. Dont know how many times over the years i've debated with people who said that such an incident was a leg block. I actually think there's a bit of skill in it , father was telling me that he remembers fellas blocking with their feet, not sure how recent the rule is? Worth an experimental try in National League?
Quote from: PAULD123 on May 06, 2011, 11:22:24 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 06, 2011, 10:59:28 AM
Quote from: PAULD123 on May 06, 2011, 10:54:10 AM
Quote from: AbbeySider on May 06, 2011, 09:58:36 AM
Quote from: tyroneman on May 05, 2011, 10:13:33 PM
A rolling ball can NOT be picked straight up
If a player loses their feet, ie if they have fallen to the ground and are not standing, is it not correct that they can play the ball (by punching or hitting it) with their hands, to move the ball ?
Obviously you can pick it off the ground, but I always was under the impression that you can touch the ball if you are on the ground yourself.
Lads the rule is simple, it does not directly mention danger. But the player must have been in possession before falling to play the ball on the ground:
Rule 1.2 - When the ball is on the ground, it may be played by any part of the body except the hand(s). It may be lifted off the ground with the feet.
Exceptions
(i) The goalkeeper may play the ball on the ground with his hand(s) inside his own small rectangle.
(ii) Any player who falls or is knocked to the ground while in possession of the ball may fist or palm the ball away on the ground, and may score by so doing.
(iii) The ball may not be lifted off the ground with the knees.
That's it Paul. As you correctly say there is no mention of danger, but I think most refs in the country will give a free if you play the ball on the ground like that, and are not under pressure.
I don't think a ref would, any I have spoken to know the rule. I think the problem comes from the word possession. You have to be in possession when you fall. If you release the ball then fall, then you cannot touch it on the ground. When I was playing everyone at the club knew the rule. The thing I didn't know is that you can score from it, for example If Joe Sheridan had placed the ball on the goal line and then pushed it over, the goal against Louth would have been perfectly legal.
But as regards a ref giving a free if you are under no pressure; if you fall over and are under no pressure why would you play the ball away with your hand? Surely you would just get up and continue on?
Didn't know that rule. Doesn't seem to make sense. Why would I be allowed hand pass the ball into the net when lying on the ground when I can't do it if running through on goal?
Quote from: PAULD123 on May 07, 2011, 05:47:24 PM
Quote from: jodyb on May 07, 2011, 09:51:40 AM
The one that absolutely dooes me in regarding how inconsistenetly its applied, is where if the ball does not travel far enough (10 metres I think) when a free is taken, this should result in a free to the other team. I've seen that rule applied in a couple of really critical events, but then it could be two years til you see it again.
Stupid, pointless inconsistent rules of that nature should be permanently consigned to the bin.
The rule is that it must travel 13 metres. I agree that this is totally inconsistently applied. I have seen free kicks travel a few metres and no sanction is given. In fact I don't think i've ever seen a free overturned for this reason ever.
I also agree that it seems a fairly pointless rule. Opposition should be 13 metres away but for your own team to have to be the same seems to be an unnecassary complication that we don't need.
A free doesn't have to travel 13 metres, but a team-mate has to be 13 metres away when the free is taken. So, if the kick goes less than 13 metres but the players receiving it comes to meet it then that's ok as long as they were at least 13 metres away when it was taken.
The worst rule has to be the squareball rule it seems to me like it's always a controversial decision so why don't they just do away with it as it really serves no purpose. Too many different issues like if it strikes the post or the crossbar then it can't be a squareball and the ref cannot possibly see were a centre forward is when the ball is launched in from midfield.It's laughable.
Something refs never seem to pick up on is if a they award a free, a team mate may run off the free-takers shoulder, the ball is popped forward and may travel 13 metres but when the free was taken the receiver was no more than a couple of metres away.
The other rule that noone seems to know is that you can collect a kick out inside the 21. You must be outside the 21 when it is taken (& in this case the ball must also travel 13 metres) but you can still collect it inside the 21.
I'd also love to see from a kick-out, a keeper kick the ball more than once before another player touches it or even dribble the ball out to hear the reactions in the crowd... its perfectly legal so long as they don't lift the ball.
A lot of people seem to think "showing the ball" is breaking the rules, which is not the case.
The shoulder tackle must be shoulder to shoulder. People scream at the ref for giving a free to a player emptied by someone's shoulder... in the face or chest.
Quote from: 4father on May 08, 2011, 06:16:22 PM
The shoulder tackle must be shoulder to shoulder. People scream at the ref for giving a free to a player emptied by someone's shoulder... in the face or chest.
And players tap their shoulders to say 'I hit him with my shoulder ref!'. Yes, yes you did. Right in the chops.
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 08, 2011, 06:19:31 PM
Quote from: 4father on May 08, 2011, 06:16:22 PM
The shoulder tackle must be shoulder to shoulder. People scream at the ref for giving a free to a player emptied by someone's shoulder... in the face or chest.
And players tap their shoulders to say 'I hit him with my shoulder ref!'. Yes, yes you did. Right in the chops.
;D True!
Quote from: 4father on May 08, 2011, 06:16:22 PM
The shoulder tackle must be shoulder to shoulder. People scream at the ref for giving a free to a player emptied by someone's shoulder... in the face or chest.
I think the rule states it as "Side to side" but the common interpretation is that it should be shoulder to shoulder. Certainly you are correct it is not a case of shoulder to "any-other-part-of-your-opponent-you-feel-like"
Also it is only allowed to be done on a player:
(a) who is in possession of the ball, or
(b) who is playing the ball, or
(c) when both players are moving in the direction of the ball to play it.
Just running on and driving a shoulder into someone is a foul. Shouldering someone to prevent them moving into space is a foul. Shouldering after the ball is played is a foul. Shouldering someone who is running away from play (e.g. retreating defender) is a foul. And shouldering someone who is running to the ball to play it while you yourself are not attempting to get to the ball is also a foul.