Only Landan and the Cats below them.
When did Fermanagh get so bad?
When we lost the Ulster Final replay in 2008 :-\
Winston Churchill predicted this decades ago.
Have no clue Orior.
Bitterly disappointing, but it has been on the cards for a while.
Dont worry lads, we will be down to keep you company in the basement in 2012 :-* :'(
Have seen them first hand the last few years, late goals won & lost games v them. some very good pacey forwards but seem to be struggling in midfield & at the back.
They should win there four remaining games to give themselves some confidence going into the championship but the Longford home defeat was the killer.
Quote from: sammymaguire on March 13, 2011, 09:28:15 PM
When we lost the Ulster Final replay in 2008 :-\
That was your own fault. Revenge for 2004.
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on March 13, 2011, 10:26:24 PM
Quote from: sammymaguire on March 13, 2011, 09:28:15 PM
When we lost the Ulster Final replay in 2008 :-\
That was your own fault. Revenge for 2004.
True, I'd say both teams would gladly swap those results.
They had a good squad of players for a few years there, most of them gone or near the end of their career ( Owens, McCluskey, McGrath, McDermott, E Maguire).
Only 20 or so clubs so small enough pick of players although probably should be Div 3 team under right management.
Should have beat us 1st day in 2008. A good free taker and they would have.
It's an unfortunate fact, but if we reach a stage where all county teams are equally well conditioned, resourced and interested, then a county as small and sparsely populated as Fermanagh is always going to be towards the bottom of the pile.
The only respite is in when one or more exceptional players come onto the scene and drag the county kicking and screaming to a higher level. Barry Owens and Marty McGrath were such players. It could be a while before it happens again.
Fair enough the Fermanagh management haven't exactly covered themselves in glory this year but the simple crux of the problem is that we simply don't have the players at the minute.
Fermanagh have been punching above their weight for the last 15 years or so and have now slowly returned to the level they were at in the late 80's.
The defence isn't too bad but there is a serious lack of midfielders and forwards coming through.
Any new forward we have developed over the last number of years have tended to be very similar, ie small and nippy like Ward, O'Brien, Corrigan etc.
We haven't had a top class target man since Stephen Maguire and although Seamus Quigley could turn into that player he doesn't appear at the minute to have the discipline required to be a top class inter county player.
Midfield is a huge problem. We have been getting wiped out there in the last number of years and we don't seem to be developing any 'big men' in the county anymore. The loss of Mark Murphy to emmigration has turned out to be a massive on. He was the sort of player who did all the unnoticed donkey work and has been sorely missed.
There aint much talent coming through. We had only about 5 or 6 representives altogether on the Ulster universities' McKenna Cup panels and we haven't won a game in minor for at least 5 or 6 years. Even through the lean years we have always had at least one top class talent in the team ie McGinnity, the Gallaghers etc but we have noone currently approaching that level.
Another problem I believe has been the lack of success of the Enniskillen Gaels team. Gaels have by far the biggest pick of any team in Fermanagh but have been in the doledrums for the last 5 years or so. The upturn in Fermanagh's fortunes at the end of the 90's and start of the 00's coincided with the Gaels team which won 6 championships in a row and who probably should have lifted an Ulster Club title. Although not all about in 04, the likes of the Brewsters, Bradleys, Neil Cox, Raymie Curran, Ronan McCabe, Ryan McCluskey etc etc brought a different attitude into the Fermanagh dressing room. They were lads who went out and expected to win and this positively affected the lads around them.
It could be a long time before we get back to the top table. The days of National League and All Ireland Semi Finals seem like a long way away.
Quote from: Jimmyjimson on March 14, 2011, 10:07:38 AM
Fair enough the Fermanagh management haven't exactly covered themselves in glory this year but the simple crux of the problem is that we simply don't have the players at the minute.
Fermanagh have been punching above their weight for the last 15 years or so and have now slowly returned to the level they were at in the late 80's.
The defence isn't too bad but there is a serious lack of midfielders and forwards coming through.
Any new forward we have developed over the last number of years have tended to be very similar, ie small and nippy like Ward, O'Brien, Corrigan etc.
We haven't had a top class target man since Stephen Maguire and although Seamus Quigley could turn into that player he doesn't appear at the minute to have the discipline required to be a top class inter county player.
Midfield is a huge problem. We have been getting wiped out there in the last number of years and we don't seem to be developing any 'big men' in the county anymore. The loss of Mark Murphy to emmigration has turned out to be a massive on. He was the sort of player who did all the unnoticed donkey work and has been sorely missed.
There aint much talent coming through. We had only about 5 or 6 representives altogether on the Ulster universities' McKenna Cup panels and we haven't won a game in minor for at least 5 or 6 years. Even through the lean years we have always had at least one top class talent in the team ie McGinnity, the Gallaghers etc but we have noone currently approaching that level.
Another problem I believe has been the lack of success of the Enniskillen Gaels team. Gaels have by far the biggest pick of any team in Fermanagh but have been in the doledrums for the last 5 years or so. The upturn in Fermanagh's fortunes at the end of the 90's and start of the 00's coincided with the Gaels team which won 6 championships in a row and who probably should have lifted an Ulster Club title. Although not all about in 04, the likes of the Brewsters, Bradleys, Neil Cox, Raymie Curran, Ronan McCabe, Ryan McCluskey etc etc brought a different attitude into the Fermanagh dressing room. They were lads who went out and expected to win and this positively affected the lads around them.
It could be a long time before we get back to the top table. The days of National League and All Ireland Semi Finals seem like a long way away.
Jimmy i agree and disagree with the bit in bold. Yes it was an exceptional Gaels team but the current Roslea team has the potential to dominate Fermanagh club football to the same extent. The Gaels are in a huge rebuilding process at the moment and it will be a while for they are back..
IMO there are to many players in Fermanagh that are not available for silly reasons.
we need everybody on board.
We do not punch above our weight Jimmy.
We have an excellent breeding ground in St Michael's College that produce teams year in and year out that are competitive at Ulster college's level.
Fermanagh have always struggled to produce university players.
Outside of the Brewsters, John Rehill and Tyson, there have been few that have made it at that level.
I disagree with the bit in bold. Enniskillen have not really produced enough players for the Fermanagh county scene in the last 10-15 years (any all-stars, or all-star nominations??) and although being the kingpins of Fermanagh club football, thats as far as it went unfortunately. Have many of the Gaels management team got involved that much at inter-county level? Thats a question, not a statement.
well that Gaels team was manged by Seamus Doyle from Derry but he has moved home.
as far as i remember, he did take Derry minors one year but has never been mentioned ever for the Fermanagh job
Liam Donnelly also won a championship with them but he was involved in the Tyrone set up.
Simon Bradley is currently the Fermanagh team trainer and has taken the minors as well.
as for producing players, lets see.
Ryan McCluskey has an all star nomination or 2.
Colm Bradley played out of his skin in 04 and his career has been interrupted by injury
Tom Brewster and Paul Brewster have been excellent servants to the county.
Chris Breen is still on the county panel.
Raymie Curran, Micky Lilly,Neil Cox, I could go on.
Jimmy is right about one thing Sammy.
That Enniskillen team always expected to win, whether it was against Crossmaglen or Devenish.
That rubbed onto the county team, there is no doubt.
With regards Enniskillen, IMO Enniskillen has such a big proportion of Fermanaghs population that the county team really need Enniskillen to be strong and providing 4 or 5 county men for the county to have any chance to win games against the better teams. At the minute, I think only Breen (currently sub keeper) is on the panel, which is a sad reflection of the state of Enniskillens senior team at the minute. Hopefully Enniskillen will re build and produce in the near future players like Bradley, Brewsters, Lilley, Clucker and Cox but untill this happens I can't see Fermanagh going anywhere.
But on a earlier note, even despite the lack of players coming from Enniskillen, we still have enough good players to be playing in Div3 if managed right, and at the minute I really think this is not the case. We are disorganised on the field and the team spirit we had a few years ago is gone and with players now leaving the squad on a regular basis I think it may already be time to change things at the top.
Quote from: FermGael on March 14, 2011, 03:05:01 PM
well that Gaels team was manged by Seamus Doyle from Derry but he has moved home.
as far as i remember, he did take Derry minors one year but has never been mentioned ever for the Fermanagh job
Liam Donnelly also won a championship with them but he was involved in the Tyrone set up.
Simon Bradley is currently the Fermanagh team trainer and has taken the minors as well.
as for producing players, lets see.
Ryan McCluskey has an all star nomination or 2.
Colm Bradley played out of his skin in 04 and his career has been interrupted by injury
Tom Brewster and Paul Brewster have been excellent servants to the county.
Chris Breen is still on the county panel.
Raymie Curran, Micky Lilly,Neil Cox, I could go on.
Jimmy is right about one thing Sammy.
That Enniskillen team always expected to win, whether it was against Crossmaglen or Devenish.
That rubbed onto the county team, there is no doubt.
8 players mentioned in approx 15 years of inter-county football, there must be over 300 lads that pulled on the green jersey in that time. The lads you mention have plenty to be proud of, especially the two Brewsters, but come on, a club that won the Senior Championship in Fermanagh from 1998 to 2006 consecutively has hardly offered their fair share of talent to the cause. I know, soccer, etc has taken away alot of the players in Enniskillen from the gaelic but considering they could field 2 senior teams, and the pedigree they held in the county during that time....
in Enniskillen's heyday the 2004 semi-final team: Brew came on in the 2nd half
N Tinney,
N Bogue, B Owens,
R McCluskey, R Johnston, S McDermott, P Sherry,
M McGrath, L McBarron,
E Maguire, S Maguire, M Little,
C O'Reilly, J Sherry,
C Bradley.http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/3545316.stm - those were the days... :'(
(http://thereisalightthatnevergoesout.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/kieran-mcgeeneypaul-grimley.jpg?w=400&h=306)
where did Niall Tinney from that 2004 team go to?was very good in goals that year
Quote from: Gael85 on March 14, 2011, 05:13:14 PM
where did Niall Tinney from that 2004 team go to?was very good in goals that year
bad groin injury was wrecking his kick outs, then tried his hand at acting...
Quote from: sammymaguire on March 14, 2011, 04:59:22 PM
Quote from: FermGael on March 14, 2011, 03:05:01 PM
well that Gaels team was manged by Seamus Doyle from Derry but he has moved home.
as far as i remember, he did take Derry minors one year but has never been mentioned ever for the Fermanagh job
Liam Donnelly also won a championship with them but he was involved in the Tyrone set up.
Simon Bradley is currently the Fermanagh team trainer and has taken the minors as well.
as for producing players, lets see.
Ryan McCluskey has an all star nomination or 2.
Colm Bradley played out of his skin in 04 and his career has been interrupted by injury
Tom Brewster and Paul Brewster have been excellent servants to the county.
Chris Breen is still on the county panel.
Raymie Curran, Micky Lilly,Neil Cox, I could go on.
Jimmy is right about one thing Sammy.
That Enniskillen team always expected to win, whether it was against Crossmaglen or Devenish.
That rubbed onto the county team, there is no doubt.
8 players mentioned in approx 15 years of inter-county football, there must be over 300 lads that pulled on the green jersey in that time. The lads you mention have plenty to be proud of, especially the two Brewsters, but come on, a club that won the Senior Championship in Fermanagh from 1998 to 2006 consecutively has hardly offered their fair share of talent to the cause. I know, soccer, etc has taken away alot of the players in Enniskillen from the gaelic but considering they could field 2 senior teams, and the pedigree they held in the county during that time....
in Enniskillen's heyday the 2004 semi-final team: Brew came on in the 2nd half
N Tinney,
N Bogue, B Owens, R McCluskey,
R Johnston, S McDermott, P Sherry,
M McGrath, L McBarron,
E Maguire, S Maguire, M Little,
C O'Reilly, J Sherry, C Bradley.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/3545316.stm - those were the days... :'(
(http://thereisalightthatnevergoesout.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/kieran-mcgeeneypaul-grimley.jpg?w=400&h=306)
From 1998 to 2006 alot of the lads that played for the Gaels were deemed not good enough for the county by various county managers.
Thats an issue for the managers at the time.
Did the county team no harm then did it considering what Mulgrew achieved?
(http://www.inpho.ie/cache/inpho/75/79/7b/f6fa4e7a56ab7687af4643914186f525b2c09af343/INPHO_00129912.jpg)
I am getting all emotional now reminiscing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oXhXaL5bxg
Like most Fermanagh fans I expected us to go through a transitional period in Division 4 but I didn't think we would be so uncompetitive this season. We can use all the excuses we want, retirements, injuries, small player resources etc, but there is no way we should be sitting at the bottom of Division 4. We might not be a Division 2 side but we should be more than capable of holding our own in Division 3. To be not even fighting it out for promotion this season is an embarrassment. The future looks bleak unless some major changes are made.
Point taken about the lack of Gaels players in the 04 team but my arguement is that their county players in the previous years were part of the reason that Fermanagh managed to shed their inferioity complex in those years. Maybe 04 was a freak year but it stands to sense that considering the huge pick that the Gaels have, a strong Enniskillen team would/should benefit the county team.
04 was a mad year for so many reasons. Expectations were shocking low at the start of the season. From the team which had featured in the 03 quarter finals Paul Brewster, Neil Cox, Kieran Donnelly, Kieran Gallagher, Raymie Gallagher, Ronan Gallagher, Niall Keenan, Micky Lilly and Ronan McCabe were, for one reason or another, all missing come Championship time. Rory Gallagher was in the middle of his sabbatical as well and Tom Brewster was only half fit. We'd an underwhelming league campaign, Mulgrew wasn't highly rated at all and we hardly had a fit keeper in the county. Everyone was expecting a hammering against Tyrone 1st day out.
Turned out it was our greatest summer ever. Unheralded lads like Bogue, Raymie Johnston, Little and Eamon Maguire were just outstanding. Owens, Stevie Maguire and McGrath led brilliantly. What we've give for those days now. Imagine us heading down to Croke Park and beating Cork by 6/7 points again !!
best players in st micks are usually from tyrone
I was at 2004 QFs was some day for the underdogs Tryone,Armagh thought it was a given but Mayo,Fermanagh had other ideas
It's days like these that makes GAA so special.
Jimmy, half the lads you mention from 03 are not Enniskillen men, I take it you know that. Anyways, it's certainly good to have a winning mentality on any team, maybe part of the reason Antrim's resurgence is down to the Galls men and Armagh have been riding high on the back of the Cross team... I just think the talent pool is not there at the moment
From the local thread, here's an alternative line up of players missing for reasons that include injury, lack of commitment, soccer commitments and club v county disputes. We just cannot afford that.
Ronan Gallagher
Shane Goan
Shane McDermott
Rory Foy
Damien Kelly
Ryan McCluskey
Daniel Ward
Mark Murphy
Ryan Carson
Shane McCabe
Ryan Keenan
Ciaran McElroy
Daryl Keenan
Seamie Quigley
Eamon Maguire
Shane McDermott is the only outfield player over 30, Ciaran McElroy and Clucker probably 30 exactly.
You're all reading far too much into the welcome demise of the Erne county. I feel it is down to one very simple reason - karma. Any county that could spawn Evil Genius deserves all it gets.
Quote from: ExiledGael on March 14, 2011, 09:31:48 PM
From the local thread, here's an alternative line up of players missing for reasons that include injury, lack of commitment, soccer commitments and club v county disputes. We just cannot afford that.
Ronan Gallagher
Shane Goan
Shane McDermott
Rory Foy
Damien Kelly
Ryan McCluskey
Daniel Ward
Mark Murphy
Ryan Carson
Shane McCabe
Ryan Keenan
Ciaran McElroy
Daryl Keenan
Seamie Quigley
Eamon Maguire
Shane McDermott is the only outfield player over 30, Ciaran McElroy and Clucker probably 30 exactly.
Another player that could be added to that side would be Shaun Doherty. There seems to be a big issue with players not wanting to play under the current management setup. Martin McGrath should be back towards the end of the league. Mark Little has now left the panel as well. To describe it as a mess would be a huge understatement.
Quote from: Emmett on March 14, 2011, 10:13:24 PM
Quote from: ExiledGael on March 14, 2011, 09:31:48 PM
From the local thread, here's an alternative line up of players missing for reasons that include injury, lack of commitment, soccer commitments and club v county disputes. We just cannot afford that.
Ronan Gallagher
Shane Goan
Shane McDermott
Rory Foy
Damien Kelly
Ryan McCluskey
Daniel Ward
Mark Murphy
Ryan Carson
Shane McCabe
Ryan Keenan
Ciaran McElroy
Daryl Keenan
Seamie Quigley
Eamon Maguire
Shane McDermott is the only outfield player over 30, Ciaran McElroy and Clucker probably 30 exactly.
Another player that could be added to that side would be Shaun Doherty. There seems to be a big issue with players not wanting to play under the current management setup. Martin McGrath should be back towards the end of the league. Mark Little has now left the panel as well. To describe it as a mess would be a huge understatement.
And this is news because. Little has left the panel for both his club and county on several occassions in the last couple of years
Is Daryl Keenan injured or has he fell out with the management? He was the stand out player at McCrory level a few years ago but has never really progressed at senior level yet.
Seems to be a bit of confidence around U21s (playing Cavan Wed night). A few wins at this level and Darren Chapman could be taking over from O'Neill next year.
Quote from: Orangemac on March 14, 2011, 10:24:24 PM
Is Daryl Keenan injured or has he fell out with the management? He was the stand out player at McCrory level a few years ago but has never really progressed at senior level yet.
Seems to be a bit of confidence around U21s (playing Cavan Wed night). A few wins at this level and Darren Chapman could be taking over from O'Neill next year.
No players from Tempo are making themselves available this year, apparently after a fall out.
Quote from: sammymaguire on March 14, 2011, 09:07:13 PM
Jimmy, half the lads you mention from 03 are not Enniskillen men, I take it you know that. Anyways, it's certainly good to have a winning mentality on any team, maybe part of the reason Antrim's resurgence is down to the Galls men and Armagh have been riding high on the back of the Cross team... I just think the talent pool is not there at the moment
Sammy I was just naming the lads who had featured in 03 but not in 04 regardless of their club. I'd hate you to think that I'm a Gaels man !!!
Anyhows Fermanagh is a team which needs to maximise its playing resources in order to compete at the top of the table. Under O'Neilll it just isn't happening but to be fair to him alot of the players named in the team Exiled Gael quoted are the lads which landed Fermanagh in Division 4 in the first place
Quote from: skeog on March 14, 2011, 07:29:48 PM
best players in st micks are usually from tyrone
I'd say we'd be happy to annex Trillick to get Mattie Donnelly full forward for the next few years.
Quote from: FermGael on March 14, 2011, 10:23:38 PM
Quote from: Emmett on March 14, 2011, 10:13:24 PM
Quote from: ExiledGael on March 14, 2011, 09:31:48 PM
From the local thread, here's an alternative line up of players missing for reasons that include injury, lack of commitment, soccer commitments and club v county disputes. We just cannot afford that.
Ronan Gallagher
Shane Goan
Shane McDermott
Rory Foy
Damien Kelly
Ryan McCluskey
Daniel Ward
Mark Murphy
Ryan Carson
Shane McCabe
Ryan Keenan
Ciaran McElroy
Daryl Keenan
Seamie Quigley
Eamon Maguire
Shane McDermott is the only outfield player over 30, Ciaran McElroy and Clucker probably 30 exactly.
Another player that could be added to that side would be Shaun Doherty. There seems to be a big issue with players not wanting to play under the current management setup. Martin McGrath should be back towards the end of the league. Mark Little has now left the panel as well. To describe it as a mess would be a huge understatement.
And this is news because. Little has left the panel for both his club and county on several occassions in the last couple of years
This is news because it is another proven county player that has left a thread-bare panel. It is a shambles, a shame and an embarassment. I don't normally advocate sacking a manager so soon in to his reign but I would not be unhappy to see JON gone if it meant 4 or 5 players were to return and be committed to the cause. I know it could be stated that if the players are committed they would be there in the first place but its very hard to play or work under management that you do not like or rate.
Quote from: Emmett on March 14, 2011, 11:06:27 PM
Quote from: FermGael on March 14, 2011, 10:23:38 PM
Quote from: Emmett on March 14, 2011, 10:13:24 PM
Quote from: ExiledGael on March 14, 2011, 09:31:48 PM
From the local thread, here's an alternative line up of players missing for reasons that include injury, lack of commitment, soccer commitments and club v county disputes. We just cannot afford that.
Ronan Gallagher
Shane Goan
Shane McDermott
Rory Foy
Damien Kelly
Ryan McCluskey
Daniel Ward
Mark Murphy
Ryan Carson
Shane McCabe
Ryan Keenan
Ciaran McElroy
Daryl Keenan
Seamie Quigley
Eamon Maguire
Shane McDermott is the only outfield player over 30, Ciaran McElroy and Clucker probably 30 exactly.
Another player that could be added to that side would be Shaun Doherty. There seems to be a big issue with players not wanting to play under the current management setup. Martin McGrath should be back towards the end of the league. Mark Little has now left the panel as well. To describe it as a mess would be a huge understatement.
And this is news because. Little has left the panel for both his club and county on several occassions in the last couple of years
This is news because it is another proven county player that has left a thread-bare panel. It is a shambles, a shame and an embarassment. I don't normally advocate sacking a manager so soon it to his reign but I would not be unhappy to see JON gone if it meant 4 or 5 players were to return and be committed to the cause. I know it could be stated that if the players are committed they would be there in the first place but its very hard to play or work under management that you do not like or rate.
Just out of curiosity who would you advocate as a replacement ?? I don't know if there are many out there who would be willing to take it.
Quote from: Jimmyjimson on March 14, 2011, 11:10:49 PM
Quote from: Emmett on March 14, 2011, 11:06:27 PM
Quote from: FermGael on March 14, 2011, 10:23:38 PM
Quote from: Emmett on March 14, 2011, 10:13:24 PM
Quote from: ExiledGael on March 14, 2011, 09:31:48 PM
From the local thread, here's an alternative line up of players missing for reasons that include injury, lack of commitment, soccer commitments and club v county disputes. We just cannot afford that.
Ronan Gallagher
Shane Goan
Shane McDermott
Rory Foy
Damien Kelly
Ryan McCluskey
Daniel Ward
Mark Murphy
Ryan Carson
Shane McCabe
Ryan Keenan
Ciaran McElroy
Daryl Keenan
Seamie Quigley
Eamon Maguire
Shane McDermott is the only outfield player over 30, Ciaran McElroy and Clucker probably 30 exactly.
Another player that could be added to that side would be Shaun Doherty. There seems to be a big issue with players not wanting to play under the current management setup. Martin McGrath should be back towards the end of the league. Mark Little has now left the panel as well. To describe it as a mess would be a huge understatement.
And this is news because. Little has left the panel for both his club and county on several occassions in the last couple of years
This is news because it is another proven county player that has left a thread-bare panel. It is a shambles, a shame and an embarassment. I don't normally advocate sacking a manager so soon it to his reign but I would not be unhappy to see JON gone if it meant 4 or 5 players were to return and be committed to the cause. I know it could be stated that if the players are committed they would be there in the first place but its very hard to play or work under management that you do not like or rate.
Just out of curiosity who would you advocate as a replacement ?? I don't know if there are many out there who would be willing to take it.
We could do a lot worse than the current Skea management team and trainer. Obviously Peter McGinnity would be high on everyone's shortlist but he doesn't seem to want it. Newtown players do not seem to rate Darren Chapman which surprised me but he has at least managed a senior club, unlike JON.
Bar O'Neill & Chapman no one seem interested in taking the job. To be honest I think we need to realistic and admit that no changes will be made this season.
I think McGinnity's job with the county board means he can't go for the senior manager job. I could be mistaken in that though. Chapman would be a big risk in my opinion unless he got a good experienced trainer in with him. I hear he's an excellent motivator but wouldn't be the best tactically.
With a handle like Emmet I knew you'd be going for Peter Clarke !!! No doubt he's done a great job this year but do you think he'd be interested ?? There's already a perceived bias towards Lisnaskea in the county set up by a number of supporters though and that wouldn't be helped by the arrival of Clarke.
I'm not advocating the removal of O'Neill mid season but I believe that the next time we appoint a manager we need to go for an outsider. One who has no baggage or history with the players therefore freeing himself from the personality and club disputes which have dogged us over the last few years.
Does the current management actually know how disillusioned supporters are?
Quote from: FermPundit on March 14, 2011, 11:37:16 PM
Does the current management actually know how disillusioned supporters are?
Hopefully it's all a masterplan to lull Derry into a false sense of security
Quote from: Jimmyjimson on March 14, 2011, 11:43:54 PM
Quote from: FermPundit on March 14, 2011, 11:37:16 PM
Does the current management actually know how disillusioned supporters are?
Hopefully it's all a masterplan to lull Derry into a false sense of security
That would be some Masterplan alright, and he seems to be pulling it off excellently too, because Fermanagh are now so bad, Derry probably feel that their ladies team could turn up in the Summer and beat Fermanagh. Maybe your onto something Jimmyjimson and O'Neill is actually a secret genius, heres hoping, but I won't told my breath :)
Following the latest withdrawels (Peter and James Sherry, Niall Bogue, Tommy McElroy, Shane Lyons and Ciaran Fla) from the squad, I am even more worried about this year.
Below is the team that beat Cavan in last years championship
Ronan Gallagher,
Niall Bogue,
Shane Lyons,
Barry Mulrone,
Daniel Ward,
Ryan McCluskey,
Tommy McElroy,
James Sherry,
Martin McGrath,
Daryl Keenan,
Ryan Carson,
Mark Little,
Paul Ward,
Rory Gallagher,
Chris O'Brien.
Only 3 of these remain on the squad (Mulrone, Ward and O'Brien), surely a county of Fermanaghs size (or any county) just can't cope with this turn over of players. There must really be some big problems in the squad. At this rate Fermanagh will have about 10 championship debuts come the summer.
After thinking about this for a while, I actually don't really blame the management, I blame the men that appointed them, i.e. the county board. They appointed a manager with no experience of managing a senior club team (that I know off), never mind a county team. Nobody takes over a team, wanting to do badly, so I do feel abit sorry for thr current management team, but disappointingly thats whats happened, and it may be time to part company with the management for the good of the county.
With a county with the limited resources that we have, we need everyone pulling together in one direction, and it seems it clearly isn't going to happen under the current regime. I think we need to act now, appoint a new boss and salvage whats left of the season and build for next year at worst. However who would take the job is a big question, we are at such a low point, I honestly don't know who would want it. We need someone to unite the county and get everyone back on board and working towards one goal, who that person is I honestly don't know.
Hard to see County board getting rid of O'Neill mid season. That would be admitting they f**cked up in the 1st place.
Seems amazing that 1 man can antagonise most of a senior county panel within months. Maybe the Fermanagh players will do a Cork style strike.
As has been mentioned the problem is who to replace him with. Chapman is with Cavan Gaels and is unlikely to leave mid season and you would imagine Clarke is geared up for a crack at senior championship with Skea next year.
I hope it's not a case of lads abandoning a sinking ship.
How low can we go? 0-7 to 0-1 up at half time and still lose.
Paul Ward missed a 13 yard free for the draw with the last kick, just shocking.
Kilkenny might get their first ever league points on the board at this rate.
Sounded like a game of two halves think it was 8-1 at HT but that late missed free cost Fermanagh a draw.
When senior players walk away there must be a serious problem. Imagine , Cavanagh,Gormley,Mc Ginley,Mc Guigan walking away from Tyrone.
I don't think the supporters would tolerate a situation like this. Time for Fermanagh supporters to stand behind the players who gave them so many good days.
All-Ireland winners and All-Stars you list there, every one.
These Fermanagh players can't convert 14 yard frees to earn a point in Leitrim. They're not coming from the same position of strength.
That said, this is a total mess and the county board needs to act. It's looking more and more like the managers position is untenable but I fear the county board will stick to their guns and see out his term, just like in Limerick with the hurlers last season.
Chris Breen gone as well.
Quote from: sammymaguire on March 20, 2011, 06:38:16 AM
I hope it's not a case of lads abandoning a sinking ship.
If one or two had left I would have said maybe they are leaving a sinking ship, but when you see the number of experienced players that have shown pride and commitment to Fermanagh in previous years now leaving you have to think the problems run much deeper.
Quote from: ExiledGael on March 20, 2011, 08:06:36 PM
It's looking more and more like the managers position is untenable but I fear the county board will stick to their guns and see out his term, just like in Limerick with the hurlers last season.
The difference maybe is that Fermanagh won't have 15 left to field very soon and changes will have to be made. Not a day now seems to go by without another player leaving the squad, with Breen being the latest to pull the plug. I hear we only had 5 subs today, which is a disgrace for any county side.
Hopely as I have said previously the management will step aside and just admit it hasn't worked so we can get a united squad presenting our proud county again.
Quote from: ExiledGael on March 20, 2011, 05:32:20 PM
How low can we go? 0-7 to 0-1 up at half time and still lose.
Paul Ward missed a 13 yard free for the draw with the last kick, just shocking.
Kilkenny might get their first ever league points on the board at this rate.
Kilkenny have got points before, wouldn't be their first ever. They beat London two or three years ago for example.
Quote from: Orangemac on March 20, 2011, 12:04:16 AM
Hard to see County board getting rid of O'Neill mid season. That would be admitting they f**cked up in the 1st place.
Seems amazing that 1 man can antagonise most of a senior county panel within months. Maybe the Fermanagh players will do a Cork style strike.
As has been mentioned the problem is who to replace him with. Chapman is with Cavan Gaels and is unlikely to leave mid season and you would imagine Clarke is geared up for a crack at senior championship with Skea next year.
What has he actually done? Surely just a lack of experience alone would not be enough to put the players off!
For the sake of Fermanagh football I hope this situation can be resolved quickly. To only have a squad of 20 today is an embarrassment and it highlights how bad things have become. I really hope John O'Neill does the right thing and offers his resignation. He has lost the support of players and supporters alike and there is no way back from that. However, I do have a lot of sympathy of him because everything he did this year was going to be compared to Malachy O'Rourke and he was always going to look inferior.
I am a proud Fermanagh supporter but at the moment we're a laughing stock. Being in Division 4 is disappointing, but I've prepared myself to a few years of transition as younger players get experience, but that doesn't excuse the level of performance we have seen this season. When the best players in the county aren't making themselves available serious questions need to be asked. An important week lies ahead in the future of Fermanagh football. If the right decisions aren't taken then we can forget about making any sort of impression in county football for many years to come.
The result today and all the circus around the team is a bit of a joke at the minute. I didn't realise how much O'Neill had managed to annoy people until reading all this thread, and its phenomenal that someone can put that many people off, that quickly.
I felt last year and the year before, people were very hard on O'Rourke. Not living in Fermanagh its sometimes hard to know the full picture, but it does seem like we have went rapidly back into the dark days. Quicker than we should be
What is it O'neills doing that's annoying the players that much? Is it his training techniques? Or are they clashing on a personnel level. From an outsider looking in it seems strange that there has been so much deflection by players all at the one go.
You'd need to get it sorted shortly as I'm moving down that way!! :(
Are you any good at football (even average will do), because we are short a few players at the minute, only had a squad of 20 yesterday so there are pleny of spare spaces.
Feck things would have to be bad!! I'm going to follow others examples and declare myself out of the county panel for the forseeable!!
From the numerous stories I have heard from the county setup, declaring yourself out is certainly a good idea.
But yes things are that bad!!
you're still the 8th best team in Ulster lads.
Thats some consolation for ye.
Quote from: supersarsfields on March 21, 2011, 12:02:03 PM
What is it O'neills doing that's annoying the players that much? Is it his training techniques? Or are they clashing on a personnel level.
Quote from: LeoMc on March 20, 2011, 09:58:31 PM
What has he actually done? Surely just a lack of experience alone would not be enough to put the players off!
If people want to know whats wrong there is certainly plenty of men to ask, admittedly not all on this list left because of O'Neill, but they are all men that could and have been playing for the county in the last few years and have now chosen to quit. And no doubt I have missed a few more.
Marty McGrath
Shane McDermott
Mark Little
Eamon Maguire
Ryan Keenan
Daryl Keenan
Damian Kelly
Ciaran McElroy
Rory Foy
Chris Breen
Fergal Murphy
Niall Bogue
Tommy McElroy
James Sherry
Peter Sherry
James Connolly
Seamus Quigley
Shane McCabe
Ryan McCluskey
Mark Murphy
Shaun Doherty
Ryan Carson
Ciaran Flaherty
Niall McGovern
Shane Lyons
Or you fermanagh folk could just enlighten us and tell us the real craic behind all this and give a brief synopsis of what the crux of the deal is. Being from a county miles away and not being in those boys company too often or having their phone numbers to hand i cant really ask them.
Spill!
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on March 21, 2011, 02:15:55 PM
Or you fermanagh folk could just enlighten us and tell us the real craic behind all this and give a brief synopsis of what the crux of the deal is. Being from a county miles away and not being in those boys company too often or having their phone numbers to hand i cant really ask them.
Spill!
Only a guess but is it something to do with fishing rights
Who do they play next at home? Surely if none of the fans show up ( which is likely at this rate ) the county board will start to feel it in the pockets so may have to relieve Mr O'Neill of his duties... As for missing a 14 yard free, unless it was on either wing, the cub should not be on the field, in a Fermanagh jersey, never mind be the free taker >:( bloody awful stuff
is it fair to say the investment in the development squads in Fermanagh is now being justified as many of these players will now be needed to represent Fermanagh in the current situation. This has been a huge investment over the last 10 years and is it proving to be money well spent--bottom 3 in Division 4. Perhaps the GAA people in Fermangh should consider a development squad of managers and the current managment could be a template on how not to man managme.
I assume Club Eirne is backing O Neill.
Quote from: Fermanaghandsam on March 21, 2011, 02:07:33 PM
Quote from: supersarsfields on March 21, 2011, 12:02:03 PM
What is it O'neills doing that's annoying the players that much? Is it his training techniques? Or are they clashing on a personnel level.
Quote from: LeoMc on March 20, 2011, 09:58:31 PM
What has he actually done? Surely just a lack of experience alone would not be enough to put the players off!
If people want to know whats wrong there is certainly plenty of men to ask, admittedly not all on this list left because of O'Neill, but they are all men that could and have been playing for the county in the last few years and have now chosen to quit. And no doubt I have missed a few more.
Marty McGrath
Shane McDermott
Mark Little
Eamon Maguire
Ryan Keenan
Daryl Keenan
Damian Kelly
Ciaran McElroy
Rory Foy
Chris Breen
Fergal Murphy
Niall Bogue
Tommy McElroy
James Sherry
Peter Sherry
James Connolly
Seamus Quigley
Shane McCabe
Ryan McCluskey
Mark Murphy
Shaun Doherty
Ryan Carson
Ciaran Flaherty
Niall McGovern
Shane Lyons
You couldnt arrange to send a dozen of them up the road to cavan?
Did you not already get Rory!!
Anybody seen todays Irish Mail.
Apparently it gives a great insight into the problems in the Fermanagh camp
Yet and all nobody on here wants to give us the crux of the problem.
Just discussed on talkbalk, though in no great detail.
I think money has an awful lot to do with this situation.
Just a big step backwards from the last six or seven years in terms of meals and medical care for players apparently, either due to funding or O'Neill's ignorance, probably the former.
It was well known the last boss O'Rourke had great attention to detail and it wasn't far off a professional outfit in terms of preparation and everything provided for players.
In recent weeks Daniel Kille was asked to play with a hamstring strain and ends up tearing it, another player knocked out at training and no physios/doctors present, and on top of that O'Neill doesn't seem to be a great man to man manager, left Roscommon game after defeat without speaking a a word to players. Those are just some of the point I've heard.
Unnamed player in papers today saying he doesn't talk to them at all, pretty much saying there's no communication, no gameplan, no tactics. County board saying they no nothing about any problems.
Probably a situation the GPA will get involved in.
I think the decision not to have trial games at the start of the year and excluding a few of last years panel
went down like a lead ballon as well.
Was on talkback this morning
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00z2n1f#synopsis (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00z2n1f#synopsis)
About 45:10 in
Fermanagh county football panel is left in disarray
John O'Neill took over as Fermanagh manager in the autumn
The Fermanagh county football panel has been left in disarray, with a number of senior players leaving the squad.
The players are understood to have withdrawn their services due to concern over the lack of experience within manager John O'Neill's coaching team.
The absence of a medical professional at training and a lack of pre-season games are also believed to be factors.
Kilkenny and London are the only two sides beneath the Erne County in the National League Division Four table.
A one-point defeat by Leitrim on Sunday exacerbated Fermanagh's plight.
Six players have left the panel within the last week, joining a number of other seasoned campaigners who are absent from the squad.
BBC Sport understands that a doctor was not present at a recent session when a player was knocked unconscious.
Last week O'Neill dismissed claims of unrest within the set-up, but following the latest withdrawls and injuries, none of the starting 15 that brought Fermanagh to an Ulster final in 2008 are currently in the squad.
Just three of the players who started last year's championship match against Cavan are still involved.
The rumour is that Tracey Concrete has reduced its sponsorship by 4/5 due to less business and the fact that it must be all they can afford. This has resulted in no physio at training. This issue came to a head at training when James Sherry got knocked out. Added problems for James would be that he works in Dublin and may have been unable to drive down the road for work??
O Neill is switching players from their usual positions such as Niall McElroy Half back told to play half forward. Martin O Brian a back told to play forward. Paul McCusker a forward told to play half back. Tommy McElroy half back told to play half forward.
O Neill also did not invite good inter county players to the panel at the start such as the Gallaghers, Ryan Keenan, Damian Kelly, Carson.
Training is said to be OK just and the manager does not speak to the players.
Quote from: unitedireland on March 22, 2011, 02:39:44 PM
The rumour is that Tracey Concrete has reduced its sponsorship by 4/5 due to less business and the fact that it must be all they can afford. This has resulted in no physio at training. This issue came to a head at training when James Sherry got knocked out. Added problems for James would be that he works in Dublin and may have been unable to drive down the road for work??
O Neill is switching players from their usual positions such as Niall McElroy Half back told to play half forward. Martin O Brian a back told to play forward. Paul McCusker a forward told to play half back. Tommy McElroy half back told to play half forward.
O Neill also did not invite good inter county players to the panel at the start such as the Gallaghers, Ryan Keenan, Damian Kelly, Carson.
Training is said to be OK just and the manager does not speak to the players.
Who does the talking if O'Neill doesn't do it ?
If even a small percentage of this is true then it sounds like a farce of a set up. I did speak to a Fermanagh club man today who asked how the hell O'Neill was ever appointed in the first place. The coach (Simon Bradley) has never coached at senior level before and the players apparently have not been impressed with his training. "Clueless" was the word used.
Quote from: ck on March 22, 2011, 08:40:00 PM
If even a small percentage of this is true then it sounds like a farce of a set up. I did speak to a Fermanagh club man today who asked how the hell O'Neill was ever appointed in the first place. The coach (Simon Bradley) has never coached at senior level before and the players apparently have not been impressed with his training. "Clueless" was the word used.
Incorrect. Simon Bradley managed Enniskillen Gaels to the senior championship in 2006. You probably meant that John O'Neill has never managed a club side.
Quote from: FermPundit on March 22, 2011, 09:29:14 PM
Quote from: ck on March 22, 2011, 08:40:00 PM
If even a small percentage of this is true then it sounds like a farce of a set up. I did speak to a Fermanagh club man today who asked how the hell O'Neill was ever appointed in the first place. The coach (Simon Bradley) has never coached at senior level before and the players apparently have not been impressed with his training. "Clueless" was the word used.
Incorrect. Simon Bradley managed Enniskillen Gaels to the senior championship in 2006. You probably meant that John O'Neill has never managed a club side.
[/b]
And has he not ?
Quote from: orangeman on March 22, 2011, 11:26:01 PM
Quote from: FermPundit on March 22, 2011, 09:29:14 PM
Quote from: ck on March 22, 2011, 08:40:00 PM
If even a small percentage of this is true then it sounds like a farce of a set up. I did speak to a Fermanagh club man today who asked how the hell O'Neill was ever appointed in the first place. The coach (Simon Bradley) has never coached at senior level before and the players apparently have not been impressed with his training. "Clueless" was the word used.
Incorrect. Simon Bradley managed Enniskillen Gaels to the senior championship in 2006. You probably meant that John O'Neill has never managed a club side.
[/b]
And has he not ?
No, Fermanagh minors and u21's, but never a club side.
Ant truth i the story that the Fermanagh players were annoyed that travelling expenses had been cut. I heard that both the driver and passengers used to get expenses (seems unlikely), but that now only the driver gets the expenses. If this is the case, I think the players are being greedy.
Def not the case, I asked the exact same question to a player (still with the squad) when I heard that this was going to be the story. Only the driver has ever claimed, clearly the county board have decided to sling some mud instead off actually trying to sort the issues out, and that doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
15 or so players would not leave because of expenses, sure most of the 15 still live in Fermanagh, expenses would be tiny for these lads anyhow.
Quote from: unitedireland on March 22, 2011, 02:39:44 PM
The rumour is that Tracey Concrete has reduced its sponsorship by 4/5 due to less business and the fact that it must be all they can afford. This has resulted in no physio at training.
Sounds like bollocks to me. There was a fair bit of competition for fermanaghs sponsorship when it was renewed. The co board went with tracey as it has been the sponsor for years, which they were right to do, but theres no chance they did so for 4/5 less than before, especially when another firm was very ready to pay well, which they subsequently have done with another team...
Ah but that other main rival has moved on to be the Tyrone sponsor now.
Indeed - as I said in the last line...
The point is though, that Tracey couldnt have said we're cutting our sponsorship by 4/5, because the co board would have taken up the other offer, so that story is bollocks imo.
The county board seem to want to make it about money, when in fact its not.
They will ever admit they were wrong in there appointment of O'Neill. They give the county managers job to someone that had no experience of managing any senior team, enough said, and surprise surprise I am led to believe he is quite good mates with quite a few high up on the county board.
Hopefully the GPA/GAA will resolve the issue but I doubt it. I expect the following to happen. The current management will stay despite the wishes of the majority of supporters and it seems players, we will beat Kilkenny and London, and maybe Clare (it will be tight). Derry will then beat us by 10+ in the championship, where we will have one of the lowest attendances in a long time, and we will then lose the 1st round qualifier. After this the county board will have no choice to admit the error of there ways and a new manager will be appointed for 2012.
Allot of oul nonsence talked here about money and sponsorship. The ONLY issue as far as players are concerned is O'Neill and his management team. There is zero repect from the players, O'Neill and co. are simply not up to the job as far as the players are concerned.
If O'Neill had any wit he would walk. The county board should persuade him to walk, get a new team in quickly and get the players back asap.
Quote from: ck on March 23, 2011, 04:17:25 PM
Allot of oul nonsence talked here about money and sponsorship. The ONLY issue as far as players are concerned is O'Neill and his management team. There is zero repect from the players, O'Neill and co. are simply not up to the job as far as the players are concerned.
If O'Neill had any wit he would walk. The county board should persuade him to walk, get a new team in quickly and get the players back asap.
Some may suggest that the players may not be up to it either ! Could it possibly be a case of realising (for some) that the writing is on the wall and are jumping ship early ?
After all Fermanagh didnt find themselves in Division 4 overnight.
We had our own problems in Roscommon with players walking away, we had one player that found training to hard! it's already hard enough for us "weaker counties" but i for one wouldn't allow any drop outs back on the panel.
If only those players could get the right management setup in place............
Yes we had such wonderful management setups over the years.............
Any latest on the Fermanagh debacle. Will they be fielding a team against Kilkenny on Sunday? If so, who will be playing? Kilkenny are 40/1 to win the game!!!
Quote from: Tommo2 on March 24, 2011, 11:07:09 AM
Any latest on the Fermanagh debacle. Will they be fielding a team against Kilkenny on Sunday? If so, who will be playing? Kilkenny are 40/1 to win the game!!!
are they normally 200/1 ??? ;)
f**k this i'm lumping a monkey on the cats to f**k!
Would an amalgamation of Fermanagh and Cavan at Senior inter-county level be a possibility?
Such a team could even be relatively competitive and may survive in Division 3 and even run another team close in the Ulster championship.
It would get rid of the anomaly of three NFL divisions of eight teams and one of nine teams. It would also get rid of the unfair need for a preliminary game in the Ulster championship.
The new team could be called Fermavan or maybe Cavanagh, although it likely Bung could beat any amalgamation on his own.
Great idea SaffromSam. We could maybe even gets parts of Leitrim to join us.
We could then be called Leianagh.
Could solve alot of our problems.
Read a bit about this yesterday in the truth. Was just wondering is paddy heaney not sensationalising the whole thing by saying if Tommy McElroy quits theres something badly wrong???? Surely he's just another player!!!!
Effectively what happens now in Fermanagh is:
The Co Board and Management begin their whispering campaign and media spin to discredit all the men who stood for the standards expected for county footballers and will be insinuating that those who withdrew are some kind of traitor who did not wish to play for their county. The players who stood for their beliefs are the heroes of Fermanagh . They are the real players who care about the future. Their clubs should now stand behind them . Most of the players remaining in the panel are not County standard-- a la Limerick Hurlers, Cork Hurlers. O Neill already issued an ultimatum to these lambs in the dressing rooms in Carrick to either put up or shut up. O Neill has a power base in two clubs which will ensure that he will be able to field a reseve team.The one major point that the County Board are forgetting is the finance for all future county teams will now be in jeopardy. The reality is Fermanagh has a 4th division county board, none of whom achieved anything of note in their lives.This situation reflects what the rest of Ulster normally think of Fermanagh footballers--toothless, gutless are words often used. but these cannot be applied to the heroes who stood for their rights.
Stand by our men!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: saffron sam2 on March 24, 2011, 11:27:56 AM
Would an amalgamation of Fermanagh and Cavan at Senior inter-county level be a possibility?
Such a team could even be relatively competitive and may survive in Division 3 and even run another team close in the Ulster championship.
It would get rid of the anomaly of three NFL divisions of eight teams and one of nine teams. It would also get rid of the unfair need for a preliminary game in the Ulster championship.
The new team could be called Fermavan or maybe Cavanagh, although it likely Bung could beat any amalgamation on his own.
Why not? It happens at club level. There's a few positives and no negatives that I can see.
Quote from: samwin08 on March 24, 2011, 01:12:21 PM
Effectively what happens now in Fermanagh is:
The Co Board and Management begin their whispering campaign and media spin to discredit all the men who stood for the standards expected for county footballers and will be insinuating that those who withdrew are some kind of traitor who did not wish to play for their county. The players who stood for their beliefs are the heroes of Fermanagh . They are the real players who care about the future. Their clubs should now stand behind them . Most of the players remaining in the panel are not County standard-- a la Limerick Hurlers, Cork Hurlers. O Neill already issued an ultimatum to these lambs in the dressing rooms in Carrick to either put up or shut up. O Neill has a power base in two clubs which will ensure that he will be able to field a reseve team.The one major point that the County Board are forgetting is the finance for all future county teams will now be in jeopardy. The reality is Fermanagh has a 4th division county board, none of whom achieved anything of note in their lives.This situation reflects what the rest of Ulster normally think of Fermanagh footballers--toothless, gutless are words often used. but these cannot be applied to the heroes who stood for their rights.
Stand by our men!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes..william wallace.
Quote from: samwin08 on March 24, 2011, 01:12:21 PM
Effectively what happens now in Fermanagh is:
The Co Board and Management begin their whispering campaign and media spin to discredit all the men who stood for the standards expected for county footballers and will be insinuating that those who withdrew are some kind of traitor who did not wish to play for their county. The players who stood for their beliefs are the heroes of Fermanagh . They are the real players who care about the future. Their clubs should now stand behind them . Most of the players remaining in the panel are not County standard-- a la Limerick Hurlers, Cork Hurlers. O Neill already issued an ultimatum to these lambs in the dressing rooms in Carrick to either put up or shut up. O Neill has a power base in two clubs which will ensure that he will be able to field a reseve team.The one major point that the County Board are forgetting is the finance for all future county teams will now be in jeopardy. The reality is Fermanagh has a 4th division county board, none of whom achieved anything of note in their lives.This situation reflects what the rest of Ulster normally think of Fermanagh footballers--toothless, gutless are words often used. but these cannot be applied to the heroes who stood for their rights.
Stand by our men!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well said. The players have kept silent with regards the papers so far and thats the way it should be, but if they eventually tell even half of what I have heard about the current set up to the papers then the county board will certainly be regretting starting a media war.
Quote from: Lecale2 on March 24, 2011, 01:17:22 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on March 24, 2011, 11:27:56 AM
Would an amalgamation of Fermanagh and Cavan at Senior inter-county level be a possibility?
Such a team could even be relatively competitive and may survive in Division 3 and even run another team close in the Ulster championship.
It would get rid of the anomaly of three NFL divisions of eight teams and one of nine teams. It would also get rid of the unfair need for a preliminary game in the Ulster championship.
The new team could be called Fermavan or maybe Cavanagh, although it likely Bung could beat any amalgamation on his own.
Why not? It happens at club level. There's a few positives and no negatives that I can see.
I'd rather be a Division 4 team than a Division 1, 2 or 3 with Cavan :P
Quote from: samwin08 on March 24, 2011, 01:12:21 PM
Effectively what happens now in Fermanagh is:
The Co Board and Management begin their whispering campaign and media spin to discredit all the men who stood for the standards expected for county footballers and will be insinuating that those who withdrew are some kind of traitor who did not wish to play for their county. The players who stood for their beliefs are the heroes of Fermanagh . They are the real players who care about the future. Their clubs should now stand behind them . Most of the players remaining in the panel are not County standard-- a la Limerick Hurlers, Cork Hurlers. O Neill already issued an ultimatum to these lambs in the dressing rooms in Carrick to either put up or shut up. O Neill has a power base in two clubs which will ensure that he will be able to field a reseve team.The one major point that the County Board are forgetting is the finance for all future county teams will now be in jeopardy. The reality is Fermanagh has a 4th division county board, none of whom achieved anything of note in their lives.This situation reflects what the rest of Ulster normally think of Fermanagh footballers--toothless, gutless are words often used. but these cannot be applied to the heroes who stood for their rights.
Stand by our men!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I wouldn't agree with everything you said there. I don't think this should be about making heroes or villans of the players as there is merit in both stances e.g. standing by your county through thick and thin versus demanding the best for your county.
The Irish News today is vilifying the players that have left and I don't think that is right either. Brendan Crossan effectively states that because Niall Bogue and Peter Sherry didn't play every game their exit can't be put down to the management - even though these players have allegedly put their signatures on a letter to the County Board indicating that this is (at least in part) the reason for their departure.
Many players made a decision not to play for Fermanagh this year the week before O'Neill was announced as manager (as by that stage it was known by everyone in Fermanagh that O'Neill would be appointed and that the interview process with other applicants was just a formality/sham). Moreover, it was known that there were players that O'Neill did not see eye to eye with. There is no reason Daryl Keenan couldn't have played in the League or Ryan McCluskey in the Championship (fair enough those players training all year should get priority - but I don't think the players would have objected to these quality players being involved).
The lack of a physio at training, the poor tactical decisions, the lack of communication between management and players and the selection of players that had been drinking the night before a game were straws that broke the camels back. The real issue was that the manager was appointed in a phony process by a phony county board. Some players and supporters to some extent bit their lips over the past few months and said "let's give him a chance". Recent events suggest that certain players said "enough is enough". But they did give them a chance. And the players in question announced a desire to leave before the Leitrim game - at a time when Fermanagh still had a middling chance of promotion - indicating that this was not some sort of "glory" decision. It could be argued that O'Neill hasn't lost the dressing room and he hasn't lost the supporters but rather he never had them in the first instance and has done little to win them over.
Many old-timers will say "in my day we did what the manager told us and that was that". They forget that in their day they didn't have the same travelling/training/nutrition requirements which basically meant they were putting GAA above all else in their life. How can Brenan Crossan say "fair play to Fergal Murphy for taking £50 a week for soccer" and in the same article implicitly criticise McElroy, Sherry etc for not wanting to commute for miles for training anymore, or put their work second for yet another year (and therefore potentially cost themselves lost earnings/promotions etc)?
Viliffying either the manager or the players is not really the issue here. O'Neill was given the job and is presumably putting in some effort to try to make it a success. The bigger things to address are:
1. Appointment of County Boards (which are effectively old boys clubs - clubs need to take a bigger role)
2. Appointment of Manager (needs to be a more transparent process)
3. Finances (interim accounts? greater clarity about fundraising from Club Eirne, sponsorship amounts etc)
4. Manager development programme (county board should 'groom' former players for management roles)
5. Player-Manager-County Board communication (sounds like there needs to be a more formal structure so that situation doesn't arise where Peter Carty doesn't take players calls and then claims in the press no players called him!)
Always go for the cause, never the symptom.
In any event a lot of young players will now get intercounty experience (albeit just against Kilkenny, London and Clare in the immediate future). Hopefully this will be good for Fermanagh football in the long term.
*pauses for breath*
Alot of things to be sorted out and not alot of time to do the sorting...
Quote from: FermGael on March 24, 2011, 11:54:58 AM
Great idea SaffromSam. We could maybe even gets parts of Leitrim to join us.
We could then be called Leianagh.
Could solve alot of our problems.
Whilst there is clearly merit in your idea, the main sticking point would be the fact that the two counties are in different provinces. It is unlikely that the two provincial councils would give the go-ahead. There is apparently a precedent from the 60s when Louth and Monaghan wanted to amalgamate (the team was to be called Lonaghan or Mouth), but the Leinster and Ulster councils blackballed it.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/darkness-in-the-drop-zone-2596230.html
Last Wednesday, the GAA and GPA made their first stab at resolving the impasse that saw ten players depart the Fermanagh football squad. It was a first test for the new joint dispute resolution framework.
Dessie Farrell and Fergal McGill kick-started the process by asking the players, management and county board to refrain from commenting further to the media.
Aware of ramifications for the future, both the GPA and GAA agreed that there could be no calling for the head of manager John O'Neill. Instead, the ten affected players were asked if there was any way they would return to play for the manager. The replies were negative and for now the show goes on without them.
This dispute smouldered over the winter and finally ignited last weekend when some players refused to travel to Carrick-on-Shannon for the game against Leitrim, which Fermanagh lost by one point.
Afterwards, the county board asked for a list of their grievances. Some of the players had tasted good times under Charlie Mulgrew and Malachy O'Rourke and enjoyed the odyssey of 2004 which culminated in an All-Ireland semi-final appearance. They also helped Fermanagh reach Division 1A in 2006 and the Ulster final two years later. Their expectations were high.
But the solid foundations of those five years have been slowly crumbling and maybe that final defeat to Armagh was the catalyst. They have since endured successive relegations and lie ahead of only London and Kilkenny in Division 4 having lost five games on the spin before yesterday's win over the Cats.
With only 21 clubs to pick from in the county, Fermanagh needs this dispute like a hole in the head, but the players are soured by more recent issues, from player welfare to O'Neill's management.
Money has become a buzzword. It's in scarce supply and the Fermanagh board have cut their cloth, while Club Erne, the supporters' group, has nothing near the resources of the past. A management structure that once featured sports psychologists, specialised weights instructors, a comprehensive medical team and rehab specialists is now a much more scaled down unit. There was no doctor present at a recent training session when one player was knocked unconscious.
On a less serious note, players are also unhappy with gear allocations and say that communication between management and the squad is poor.
The exodus has been frightening. Mark Little, their dashing and exciting forward, Seamus Quigley, former skipper James Sherry, Shane Lyons, Fergal Murphy and James Connolly all went swiftly. Tommy McElroy, Peter Sherry, Niall Bogue and Ciarán Flaherty left last week. On top of this, Ryan Keenan hasn't even featured under the new regime. Former All Star Barry Owens, has stayed put, but it hasn't lifted the cloud hanging over them.
"There's just a rotten feeling about here," said a source within the camp. "Our best players are gone and we've too small a playing pool. But the county board is just hoping we'll beat Kilkenny, London and Clare and then the lads might come back for the championship. That won't happen."
After the Leitrim game last week, O'Neill tried to put a positive spin on things. "We had 27 players at training," he said. "The absentees all had entirely legitimate reasons. We have two fellows with long-term injuries. A couple of weeks ago, two other senior players, who have been on the Fermanagh panel for eight or 10 years, decided to call it a day. They felt they couldn't give the commitment at this time and we accepted it. These reports (of a crisis) have been blown out of all proportion."
But they haven't. The next county board meeting is on April 6 although their Management Committee will meet tomorrow night to discuss a report by the GAA and the GPA of a meeting between some players and members of the County Board.
Hopefully everything will get sorted out tonight one way or the other and we can move on. In reality the current management will remain in place this year and the county team will struggle badly with the limited numbers we have. I fear an absolute hammering from Derry. Our county squad seems to be turning into a Lisnaskea/Devenish Select (O'Neills prevous two clubs I believe) with a few players from other clubs threw in.
On a different note, I have heard a few names of players that have been asked in the last week to come out for fermanagh this year to increase the squad size, and some of them are no where near county standard, one in fact was a sub for his club on several occasions this year. One such player even told me that O'Neill didn't even ring him, he had Owens ringing him instead, which seems a bit strange. Surely a manager should be making these calls.
looks like the whole thing is over.
County Board backs O'Neill and surprise surprise tells the Gaa/Gpa to shove it.
http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=145347 (http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=145347)
Quote
The statement released by the Fermanagh county board reads:
Fermanagh County Management Committee met on Wednesday 30th March 2011 to discuss issues regarding our Senior Football team - we wish to make the following statement:
We acknowledge that four players informed County Officers in writing last Tuesday (22/3/11) that they had formally withdrawn from the Fermanagh Senior Football Panel. As a result of this letter, Officers of the County Board met these players last Thursday in accordance with the Disputes Resolution Protocols as outlined in the recently announced GAA/GPA Recognition Agreement.
Following discussion of the report of that meeting we wish to state the following:
1. Fermanagh County Management Committee fully supports the Management Team of John O'Neill and his backroom team.
2. We commend the leadership shown by the Senior Team Captain and Players' Representative, Barry Owens, and pledge our support to all those panel members who have continued to play for our Senior Football Team.
3. We reaffirm that all our Team Managers are appointed to a three year term.
4. We regret that the four players are currently unavailable for selection to our senior team, and acknowledge their contribution to Fermanagh football over the years.
5. We are committed to working to address issues raised by all players.
6. Following discussions with the GAA/GPA we did not consider that their suggestions represented an appropriate way forward for Fermanagh.
We recognise that the senior team is in transition, and we ask that the current Team Management and Players are given time and space to manage this situation. We appeal to all Fermanagh Gaels to continue their support to all our County Teams
Surely the county board have made a big big error here. The players are now bound to make their problems with the manager and county board public knowledge now, and this may get pretty embarrassing for the county board.
But the decision is no surprise, typical Fermanagh county board, stick your head in the sand and hope it all goes away. It needs a massive shake up, but this won't happen and as usual they will all just rotate there positions within the county board and no new blood will get a look in and the old heads will remain to hold the county back in the dark ages.
Strong leadership from the Fermanagh county board there,if they can work behind the scenes and avoid the double edged sword ie "help" from the GPA and their cronies, then they surely can work their way out of this. The 4 lads who walked out on their county teammates will have their own reasons for doing so. But as someone so eloquently pointed out earlier just imagine what these 4 guys could achieve if they were given their perfect conditions to do so....? If budget for preparing a team as in any other walk of life was dependent on performance levels then and these guys would be just ahead of Kilkenny footballer s and London at the moment.... Young lads will always delude themselves. By the way I have total admiration and always did have for Owens. What an asset he is to the GAA in Fermanagh
Quote from: rrhf on March 31, 2011, 12:43:11 PM
Strong leadership from the Fermanagh county board there,if they can work behind the scenes and avoid the double edged sword ie "help" from the GPA and their cronies, then they surely can work their way out of this. The 4 lads who walked out on their county teammates will have their own reasons for doing so. But as someone so eloquently pointed out earlier just imagine what these 4 guys could achieve if they were given their perfect conditions to do so....? If budget for preparing a team as in any other walk of life was dependent on performance levels then and these guys would be just ahead of Kilkenny footballer s and London at the moment.... Young lads will always delude themselves. By the way I have total admiration and always did have for Owens. What an asset he is to the GAA in Fermanagh
Thats the one thing it is not RRHF.
Its a lot more than 4 players unfortunately. The 4 players mentioned were just the last 4 to walk out.
Well - theres those rightly or wrongly who cant believe the GPA were allowed into a county boards meeting room to do business on behalf of GAA members in Fermanagh, in the first place and who were fearful of what could be obtained with their mediators, Many indeed might be glad to see them chased back down the road to their Croke Park offices with their tails between their legs - rightly or wrongly of course.
Quote from: rrhf on March 31, 2011, 01:01:38 PM
Well - theres those rightly or wrongly who cant believe the GPA were allowed into a county boards meeting room to do business on behalf of GAA members in Fermanagh, in the first place and who were fearful of what could be obtained with their mediators, Many indeed might be glad to see them chased back down the road to their Croke Park offices with their tails between their legs - rightly or wrongly of course.
FFS, the GPA werent doing "business on behalf of GAA members in Fermanagh". They (along with the GAA) were trying to mediate a dispute between the 10 or so Fermangh players who have left the panel and the management. The GAA and the GPA between came up with a plan, but I don't think the plan has been made public so its hard to give an opinion on the Fermanagh Board's statement (other than mentioning 4 players having left the panel is very much a "half-truth"). Of course the FCB have every right to ignore the GAA/GPA idea. They are put their position of power by all the clubs and their members.
But its not the GPA who have been "chased back down the road with their tails between their legs", its the 10 or so Fermanagh players.
Whether we like it or not, The GPA is now part of the Gaa.
From my understanding , the Gaa and the GPA together worked hard to some up with this mediation solution
for situations like this. All that hard work has been for nothing
The Fermanagh County Board entered the mediation process with the GAA/GPA.
Just because they did not like compromise solution as a way forward does not give them an excuse to pull out.
I am sure there are other stages in the process that could have been implemented.
Now they have totally undermined the whole process.
Was I correct --my post 24th March
Effectively what happens now in Fermanagh is:
The Co Board and Management begin their whispering campaign and media spin to discredit all the men who stood for the standards expected for county footballers and will be insinuating that those who withdrew are some kind of traitor who did not wish to play for their county. The players who stood for their beliefs are the heroes of Fermanagh . They are the real players who care about the future. Their clubs should now stand behind them . Most of the players remaining in the panel are not County standard-- a la Limerick Hurlers, Cork Hurlers. O Neill already issued an ultimatum to these lambs in the dressing rooms in Carrick to either put up or shut up. O Neill has a power base in two clubs which will ensure that he will be able to field a reseve team.The one major point that the County Board are forgetting is the finance for all future county teams will now be in jeopardy. The reality is Fermanagh has a 4th division county board, none of whom achieved anything of note in their lives.This situation reflects what the rest of Ulster normally think of Fermanagh footballers--toothless, gutless are words often used. but these cannot be applied to the heroes who stood for their rights.
Stand by our men!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: AQMP on March 31, 2011, 01:34:30 PM
Every county in the country would have a number of players who do not committ to the intercounty scene for various reasons, work, family, don't like the manager, don't like the colour of the polo shirts supplied, etc.
The difference here is that all 15 of the Ulster final team in 2008 and 12 of the 15 that started in the championship against cavan are gone, this does not happen in every county in the country, and there must be something making them all quit.
Quote from: AQMP on March 31, 2011, 01:34:30 PM
Another quick point about the set up...I don't think JON will prove to be a particularly successful inter county manager but he didn't take Fermanagh into Div 4.
However it would be nice to be at least competitive in Div4, which we are currently not and won't be until things change.
The one thing I can't understand is why O'Neill wants to stay. If I was the manager and a significant number of my squad quit because of me, and on top of that at best, public opinion is split about my appointment, and the fact our results have been shocking I would quit for the good of all concerned.
O Neill can stay as long as he wants. but supporters will vote with their feet. The few pro O Neill supporters get in free anyways. The facts are Fermangh will be in the wilderness ( Div 3 /4), and with out an Ulster Championship win for many years to come .Neither John O Neill , his failed back room, or his reserve footballers are capable of restoring Fermanagh's fortunes. the effects of this mis managment will go far beyond O Neill and the County Board.
where to now for Dessi and the GPA?
Dessie has failed to stand by his members
Quote from: AQMP on March 31, 2011, 01:56:04 PM
You're right...in most counties supporters would be looking to clear out the squad that was relegated from Div 2 to Div 4 in successive seasons. Big fish, very small pond??
I really doubt most supporters would be looking to clear out all 15 of the players that just 3 years ago got us to our first Ulster final in about 25 years. Especially as we do have such a small pool of players to pick from.
Quote from: samwin08 on March 31, 2011, 03:00:56 PM
Dessie has failed to stand by his members
Utter nonsense.
The GPA and GAA tried to facilitate an agreement but Fermanagh County Board told them they weren't interested.
What the hell more can they do? The players have voted with their feet, they can do no more.
Its now up to the fans and, in particular club members in Fermanagh to decide whether they want to take action or let it slide.
Well said Hound, the players have taken a stand and risked there intercounty futures, now its up to the fans and clubs to show there support for them.
If not, the situation will die away and Fermanagh football will continue to go backways.
Quote from: samwin08 on March 31, 2011, 03:00:56 PM
O Neill can stay as long as he wants. but supporters will vote with their feet. The few pro O Neill supporters get in free anyways. The facts are Fermangh will be in the wilderness ( Div 3 /4), and with out an Ulster Championship win for many years to come .Neither John O Neill , his failed back room, or his reserve footballers are capable of restoring Fermanagh's fortunes. the effects of this mis managment will go far beyond O Neill and the County Board.
where to now for Dessi and the GPA?
Dessie has failed to stand by his members
you sure you aren't from fermanagh....
Quotewhere to now for Dessi and the GPA?
Dessie has failed to stand by his members
Have to say thats the biggest load of shite ever. No fan of the GPA or Dessie, but they couldn't be blamed for this
Eleven former Fermanagh players have said they are deeply disappointed at the county board's rejection of recommendations made by the GAA and the GPA.
A statement released today and signed by 11 former panel members contains stinging criticism of the management setup, accusing it of falling 'far short' of the standards needed for inter-county football.
Fermanagh are currently third from bottom in Division 4 of the Allianz Football League, with just London and Kilkenny below them, amid a dispute between players' and management which has seen a large number of players quit the panel.
Last week, the GPA and GAA stepped in to try to bring about a solution under the newly agreed Disputes Resolution Protocols.
But on Thursday morning, the County Management Committee released a statement rejecting the advice of the GPA/GAA and backed the management team led by John O'Neill.
The statement released today by the former panel members said: 'We the undersigned would like to express our deep disappointment that the Fermanagh Co Board has chosen to reject the recommendations made under the GPA/GAA Disputes Resolution Protocols.
'It is our continued contention that the current management team falls far short of the high standards of organisation and preparation which are required to compete at inter-county standard.'
The statement adds the players involved remain committed to Fermanagh football and calls on the clubs to ensure that a comprehensive and transparent review to take place at the end of the season.
The players also accuse the Board of attempting to drive a wedge between different elements of the playing group.
They add that they will not return to the Fermanagh panel while the current management remains in place and thanks the GPA and the GAA for their efforts to resolve the dispute.
The statement is signed by Niall Bogue, James Connolly, Ciaran Flaherty, Mark Little, Sam Lynch, Shane Lyons, Tommy McElroy, John Mullarkey, Seamus Quigley, James Sherry and Peter Sherry.
The statement by the 11 former Fermanagh players' in full is as follows:
We the undersigned would like to express our deep disappointment that the Fermanagh Co Board has chosen to reject the recommendations made under the GPA/GAA Disputes Resolution Protocols.
It is our continued contention that the current management team falls far short of the high standards of organisation and preparation which are required to compete at inter-county standard.
Rather than this season being a launch pad for a rebuilding process, we believe there has been a decline in standards. As a result the undersigned 11 panel members, (not 'only four' as stated by the county board) have withdrawn to date due to concerns regarding team management.
We have also received the support of a significant number of players from last year's squad who share our views on the current situation.
We would like to make it clear that we bear no animosity whatsoever to the players who remain on the panel and have at no point attempted to coerce or influence any panellist into making a decision.
However we believe the County Board have attempted to drive a wedge between the current squad and the players involved in the Dispute. Furthermore, we reject the County Board's assertion that the current squad is in 'transition'.
We believe the alarmingly high level of player turnover within the county is a symptom of deep problems which the board are currently unwilling to address.
We wish to put on record that we remain passionately committed to Fermanagh football and have not taken this course of action lightly. We hope our past service to our County will be seen as evidence of this commitment.
As the County Board has chosen to reject the recommendations made under the GPA/GAA Disputes Protocol, we now call on the clubs in Fermanagh to ensure that a comprehensive review is carried out transparently at the end of the season and to ensure that their views are heard clearly on this matter. We believe this is essential for the future health of Fermanagh football.
While we will not be returning to the squad under the current management, we would like to wish the squad every success for the remainder of the season. We would also like to thank the GAA and the GPA for their efforts to resolve this dispute.
2011 Withdrawn Panel Members:
1. Bogue, Niall
2. Connolly, James
3. Flaherty, Ciaran
4. Little, Mark
5. Lynch, Liam
6. Lyons, Shane
7. McElroy, Tommy
8. Mullarkey, John
9. Quigley, Seamus
10. Sherry, James
11. Sherry, Peter
That statement is very nearly word for word what the Cork hurlers released a few years ago. Has Sean Og gone back to his roots ???
I find it odd that the GAA were so quick to get involved and broker a deal. In Cork they constantly avoided doing this until they had little choice. Is it a case that Cork was too big a fish to deal with, while Fermanagh was seen as something that needed sorting out.
I'm sure the GPA was acting on behalf on the players on both sides.
Interesting news for Roslea and Fermanagh
James and Peter Sherry have just asked our club secretary for his signature!
interesting news for us and possibly Louth
Quote from: mattockranger on April 01, 2011, 06:12:04 PM
Interesting news for Roslea and Fermanagh
James and Peter Sherry have just asked our club secretary for his signature!
interesting news for us and possibly Louth
Why would either of them want to quit Roslea?
Sorry state of affairs all round and will only end in tears.
County board are not going to back down so O'Neill will be there for this year at the minimum which means Fermanagh will be short at least 5/6 players who would have been expected to start v Derry.He doesn't seem like a man who will quit.
Will this row filter down to club level? With some clubs being pro O'Neill and some anti.
When is the next vote on County Board membership? Whole process of appointing manager seemed like a farce.
Also with Seamus Quigley one of the Lakes (as opposed to Oceans) Eleven and his 2 brothers on the panel what kind of discussion around football would there be in that house?
Quote from: Orangemac on April 02, 2011, 08:28:31 AM
Also with Seamus Quigley one of the Lakes (as opposed to Oceans) Eleven and his 2 brothers on the panel what kind of discussion around football would there be in that house?
:D Seamie would have signed it for the craic if it suited him. I wouldnt think any of them would care that much about what any of the others was saying either
Fermanagh put up a big score today against Clare winning 17-9,suprising result conisdering Fermanagh missing so many bodies
Fermanagh: J McGrath, J Woods, B Owens, M Jones, C Quigley (0-1), B Mulrone, K Cosgrove, H Brady, M O'Brien, T O'Flanagan (0-2, 0-1 free), N Cassidy, R Jones (0-3, 0-2 frees), P Ward (0-3), J O'Flanagan (0-3), S Quigley (0-1). Subs: D Kille (0-4) for Woods (10 mins), B Óg Maguire for Cassidy (20), J O'Brien for Ward (60), C O'Brien for D Kille (65).
Good result but I was expecting it at home. When you look back at the league a little bit of luck or one or two more players on board and we would have been promoted. Wicklow equalised with the last kick against us, we were six up on Leitrim with 20 minutes left and missed 14 yard free to draw with last kick. Roscommon beat us with a goal in injury time, a few more experienced heads and an extra point or two would have been carved out. With London to come that'll leave us finishing on nine points. It's not great but we're certainly not the worst team in the country, second string team or not.
Hope to God things get sorted in the next month or two now, even if a handfull of players return - McCluskey and McGrath at least. Derry in Celtic Park still looks like it could be a massacre.
Is it true that Clare sent their hurling team by mistake?
Or maybe Fermangh sent their hurling team!
Would i be the only Derry man who would be worried that Fermanagh will get it together and beat us by a point or two in a dour oul battle, a la Omagh a couple of years ago?
Quote from: leaveherinsir on April 04, 2011, 07:19:55 PM
Would i be the only Derry man who would be worried that Fermanagh will get it together and beat us by a point or two in a dour oul battle, a la Omagh a couple of years ago?
I wouldn't be too worried about that. Odds of 10/1 would be too short for us for that match unfortunately
Hi all Fermanagh Gaels. Terrible goings on at the minute. Better give you all my take on things.
I wasn't in favour of JONs appointment from the outset. Nothing has happened to change my mind. If the likes of peter and James sherry, Niall bogue and Tommy Mc elroy are walking out and giving their reasons then I know for sure there is something badly wrong. They are all good Fermanagh men who always give their best.
I hope that JON has the sense to put Fermanagh first at the end of the year and quit. We need all our best players out to have any chance, nobody can deny that.
Anybody else agree or disagree? Anyone I talk to is thinking along the same lines.
From the Irish Examiner:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Irish Examiner
WITH Fermanagh football making the headlines of the national media and the county side languishing in the doldrums of Division Four, it has obscured one of the league's more interesting developments.
With one game to go in the notoriously-competitive Division Two, Donegal remain unbeaten. Once the hardest-partying team in Ulster, they now pride themselves as the hardest-working one.
In Jim McGuinness, they have a progressive manager hungry for success and hungry to develop, not just his players but himself. He's studied coaching and winning from his time attaining degrees in sports science and sport psychology.
He's credible and cutting edge.
McGuinness has only one man by his side down on the touchline: his number two, Rory Gallagher. Of all the people he could have chosen, he went with a 33-year-old not even from the county, just one living in it and the owner of an exceptionally high football IQ.
Last season, Gallagher played for Fermanagh. He was not asked back by John O'Neill but if he had, do you doubt he wouldn't have voted on the setup with his feet? Nor would there be any doubt about how he'd be described, considering the perception of him during his on-off inter-county career with Fermanagh: troublemaker, too big for his boots, "one of the players who got us into Division Four in the first place".
There has been something honourable about the dissenting players' reluctance to disseminate horror stories about O'Neill's management but it has largely backfired. People don't know what they found so objectionable about the setup, leaving the vacuum to be filled with innuendo, side issues and non-issues.
The dispute has been portrayed as one featuring a group of pampered players no longer indulged with the backup and medical support they enjoyed under Malachy O'Rourke.
Undoubtedly the county board, like most county boards, are financially-challenged now, but Club Eirne, the county's supporters club, have money waiting to be called on, only to be sidelined by the current setup.
The crux of the dispute is over something that costs nothing — man management.
The dissenting players were not impressed by O'Neill's tactical awareness or his addresses and found him unapproachable.
Think of all the recent best new managers — Liam Sheedy, Anthony Daly, Kevin Walsh, Jason Ryan, Kieran McGeeney, Pat Gilroy, James McCartan, Conor Counihan, Jim McGuinness...
All the boss, but all approachable, all new school.
O'Neill is unashamedly old school. Upon his appointment, he declared his scepticism towards sport psychology.
"I was discussing this once with Cormac McAdam and he told me that when he was captain and goalie with the county he didn't need any psychologist to tell him we were losing on the scoreboard!"
A great line to draw a guffaw from your drinking buddies, but could you imagine Jason Ryan saying that?
I should declare that I'm a sport psychologist, and as it happens, the one that worked with Fermanagh, my father's native county, when they reached the 2008 Ulster final.
Space prevents me from elaborating on how we looked at scoreboards or 'losing' during games that hadn't yet been won or lost — though it's quite revealing John and Cormac had Fermanagh losing on their scoreboard.
I believe John's job is safe for this year and in many ways it's only right it is, after the team's win over Clare last Sunday. But he should be judged by the results of his team this summer, because it is ultimately the team that he left himself with. Probably O'Rourke's biggest mistake was the wild turnover of players he oversaw after 2008. Too many panel players were discarded for 2009, and again in 2010. For Fermanagh to be competitive in 2011, the team needed to enter a period of transition married with some stability in the form of the Sherrys and McElroy.
Those departing players have been dismissed as being "the same players who landed Fermanagh in Division Four". It's unfair. For starters they still managed to win their first-round Ulster championship game each of the last three years, a trend unlikely to stretch under O'Neill. Niall Bogue was man of the match on the county's greatest day, the 2004 win over Armagh. James Sherry remains the only Fermanagh man to score a goal in an All-Ireland senior semi-final and only last year was Fermanagh's best player in their Division Three campaign.
In 2008 Tommy McElroy was a near All-Star and the best newcomer in Ulster. Three years on, he might be finished.
So could the GAA-GPA intervention model; it is too crude, idealistic and unwieldy to deliver a "compromise" in a "dispute" like this; no way in the real world were O'Neill and those players going to co-exist in the same setup.
O'Neill survives because he's been backed by Barry Owens, who is desperate to play football after three long years away from the game and by a county board whose officers are the salt of the earth but have little idea as to how you coach and compete in the Facebook era, otherwise they'd have found or produced another Jason Ryan or Jim McGuinness last autumn. And until the clubs show some initiative, that's the way it will stay.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Finally a paper is willing to say it how it is!!!!
Good article but who is he quoting in the second half of it? Gallagher?
Quote from: mattockranger on April 05, 2011, 02:42:46 PM
Good article but who is he quoting in the second half of it? Gallagher?
Probably himself, assuming Kieran Shannon wrote the article.
Quote from: mattockranger on April 05, 2011, 02:42:46 PM
Good article but who is he quoting in the second half of it? Gallagher?
???
Correct and right Shannon is a sports pyschologist thanks
Good article, but for me tainted a bit by the fact that Gallagher is mentioned. Anyone who knows him knows what he is like, and team player is not one of them
Much has been written by local journalists to isolate the dissafectd players and portray them as the villians. Here are some clues for the disatisfaction " late nights, bars, before matches .
The minors seem to be doing well for a change they have beaten donegal, antrim and tyrone. The championship will tell the tale but at least they are winning games. Fair play to henry and the management team putting a good effort in.
London 0-15 Fermanagh 0-9
Surely Fermanagh cannot go any lower than this. New manager needs to be got in before senior championship starts and if clubs have any gumption a new co board at the next possible opportunity.
A new low and I am here at it.numb
Quote from: FermGael on June 25, 2011, 03:27:27 PM
A new low and I am here at it.numb
Fair play to you Fermgael. True diehard. On the bright side the only way is up from here.
London were a great price today ;)
Manager must go. John o Neill has made excuse after excuse since taking the job. It's time people listened to the players that walked away this year. Disgrace.
Quote from: Fermanaghfirst on June 25, 2011, 03:41:03 PM
Manager must go. John o Neill has made excuse after excuse since taking the job. It's time people listened to the players that walked away this year. Disgrace.
Haven't heard his excuse for this game yet but would imagine it would be along the lines of "London have a bigger population to call upon than Fermanagh".
Where do you begin??
I have had an awful lot of highs and lows with Fermanagh but yesterday was the lowest point ever in Fermanagh football history. Firstly congratulations to London. Thoroughly deserved. Truthfully they should have won by more.
As for the match itself the decision to play Niall Cassidy as a defender completely back fired. Niall plays all his club football as a forward and in my memory has never played as a back. I do not blame the young lad. I blame the management. They hung him out to dry. Also bringing on Hugh Brady when he was clearly not fit was mind boggling.
From the start the Fermanagh players were nervy, kicking ball away, making silly handling errors and running into the tackle and not getting out of it. Once London got a few scores the nerves got worse and it was very hard to watch. John Woods, Barry Owens, Tomas Corrigan and John O'Flanaghan tried but they were fighting a losing battle.
I hope that this defeat will draw a line on the whole thing and O'Neill will now walk away. I have my doubts if he will though.
Even if O'Neill does walk away there are other problems to be sorted. The county board seems to at war with itself. There are many problems there as well. That was highlighted this week by the CCC decision to play a round of starred fixtures on Friday night and then cancel them on Wednesday after an emergency meeting. The left hand it seems does not know what the right hand is doing.
As for the players that left the panel, Fermanagh has too small a player base to lose players of this quality. We need to see T McElroy, J Sherry, P Sherry, N Bogue, S Lyons, and R Carson back in the county colours as soon as possible. We could also do with seeing R McCluskey, D Keenan, R Foy and D Kelly returning to the fold as well who were not available this year for one reason or another. E Maguire and M McGrath would also be a great addition to the team if they have recovered from injury
But it must also be remembered that of the players that walked away, some are more trouble than they are worth and others on that list would be of no addition.
I have no clue what will happen now for Fermanagh football. I suppose that the only way is up from here. But there is an awful long way to go
Would pretty much echo FermGael's comments. London the better team and deserved winners. A solid team performance for London and a few of their Galway men look handy enough. They could have another victory in them yet especially if they get another game at Ruislip.
The attendance level, atmosphere, and set up at Ruislip yesterday made it feel more like a club championship match than an AI qualifier. Fermanagh duly obliged by producing a club like performance. Though truth be told many club teams would beat us. Normally in a situation like this the losing team comes away saying 'ah we took them for granted and thought it would be a handy win'. No one in Fermanagh thought this would be a handy win (indeed a fair few prob had money on London at 7/2!) which deprives of this excuse. As a result the only excuses are either (1) players not good enough (2) management not good enough.
Nomally in these scenarios the press will say 'it has become impossible for the manager to stay on'. The worrying thing is that it is not impossible. O'Neill is stubborn. The County Board will never admit they have made a mistake. The remaining players will be happy for JON to remain as they get regular intercounty football. Would be interesting to get Barry Owens thoughts now.
The main problem remains unaddressed. The manager picks the players. The County Board picks the manager. The Clubs pick the County Board. The County Board needs to change. Sack the board. Have clear elections for every position. Look at the best club chairmen and put them forward for the main job. Update the strategy plan for the county. Invest in youth (both in terms of development and having a younger county board). However, this will not happen as Fermanagh people are to laid back to seek change. But Fermanagh need a vision for the next 5-10 years. JON is not the man to either create that vision or implement it. Why not set up a commitee headed by Peter Quinn and containing the likes of the Brewsters, the Gallaghers, McGinnity, Corrigan, Owens, McGrath, Bradley et al to say 'right how are we gonna sort this out'?
On another note, a reminder that Fermanagh football is not totally dead was provided by the chants from the Lisnaskea contingent of 'if you have an all-ireland clap your hands' whilst a mirror above the bar in ruislip that was presented by Enniskillen Gaels in 2000 was another reminder of headier days for fermanagh football
Two very good posts above. Particularly like the point by Caid of a committee coming together with McGinnity, Brewster, Gallagher etc. That would be a more effective start than the county board appointing one of their mates!
All of the worst fears on O'Neill have come through and it is fair to say that this is an all time low for Fermanagh. Rory Gallagher for manager? Apppointed by a new county board.
Quote from: sammymaguire on June 25, 2011, 03:34:38 PM
London were a great price today ;)
Sure they were, Fermanagh, where did it all go wrong?
Quote from: dillinger on June 26, 2011, 10:16:48 PM
Quote from: sammymaguire on June 25, 2011, 03:34:38 PM
London were a great price today ;)
Sure they were, Fermanagh, where did it all go wrong?
When Adrian Dunbar left.
Maybe London finally got it right, they should have beaten mayo who are not all that bad.
As a resident of Fermanagh, with a Fermanagh wife and Fermanagh children, this result is an embarrassing disgrace. :'(
Bearing in mind that you probably measure the strength of the exile counties by the state of the Irish economy, therefore with Ireland on its knees econmically, London and New York are going to have stronger teams. Still, Fermangh is a county that was in an AI semi final seven years ago.
The "sack the board" call is understandable and attractive but you need to replace the board with others who are willing to put in the work and give up the time that is required to run a modern county board as well as having the vision etc. I know from experience of other county boards that the time committment is huge...that's why you get the scenario of, say, the county treasurer being re-elected for the 28th year in a row...because he/she is willing to do it.
Where do Fermanagh go from here? Well the only way is up for in a country with 32 counties Fermanagh is ranked 33rd!! Also I know that while the management must bear a lot of the blame, some of the "walk out" players were not entirely the victims they portrayed themselves as. Fermanagh does have a "nursery" in St Michael's College so underage development work might need to be revamped??
As for Skea's All Ireland, it should be easy for a senior team to win the intermediate :P
Fair play to the fermanagh players for taking their chance as this may be the only start some will ever have in senior championship.
John O'Neill started four midfielders against London. He told the player not to pass the ball away, not to let them score, Shannon who wrote that artical for the examiner would tell you that telling people not to do stuff makes them nervous and they end up doing it. ie giving the ball away O Neill out straight away. Nice man SHIT MANAGER
Grammar Police or Translator? ???
So Jarlath Burns is the man appointed by the county board to try and sort this mess out.
Good luck Jarlath
Dear jarlath...
Knowing that jarlath is an avid reader of this board I hope he reads this....
What is there to review?
1. Manager appointed by chairman whose club nominated JON.
2. JON never managed a club team
3. Players gave it a go until the spring
4. 11 Players realised manager was not upto it and took severe action.
5. Fermanagh got beat by Poor teams in division 4.
6. Annihilation in Celtic park.
7. Humiliation in ruislip
8. Humiliation in ruislip
9. Yes humiliation in ruislip!
10. It won't get better under JON.
How could the review be in favour of keeping te manager???
Anybody else got any views?
People --- you must understand the GAA has a method-- "let people think we are listening to them, let them think we will do what they want us to do and then we shall do what we are always going to do anyway, which is to back John O Neill" . Do you really think it will be other wise--not a chance. Jarlath , honourable man he maybe , will do the GAA thing quite well, as he may one day need GAA support to reach High Office.
Most Fermanagh people know this and don't give a hoot what happens.
I fear Samwin08 is right. If I am right the Review commitee is made up of Jarlath and 3 county board members, the same 3 that actually employed O'Neill in the 1st place. So in my eyes this review is just for show. Jarlath is a great choice by the county board to do the job they want him to do, i.e. sit there and cause no trouble. Afterall Jarlath has bigger fish to fry in the years ahead and won't want this to damage his image in the heads of those deciding on the next GAA president.
When the review is over, O'Neill will remain, even more players will quit, and Fermanagh will sink even lower (if thats possible).
Our only hope is a complete overhaul of the county board at the end of the year!!
The man has only been appointed and he is all ready being judged.
Lets see what the review brings and judge him then.
That sort of reasonableness will get you a bad name round here. ;D
Quote from: FermGael on September 08, 2011, 02:01:29 PM
The man has only been appointed and he is all ready being judged.
Lets see what the review brings and judge him then.
The lack of a independent review is the problem here, not Jarlath. Within an independent review, Jarlath would be fine, as he could voice his view and the group would work together to come to there conclusion. But having the people that appointed the manager on the review commitee just seems crazy, but to be honest, not in the one bit surprising, considering the Fermanagh County board set it up. I fear it will be Jarlath against the rest, and he will back down so not to cause trouble.
If the Fermanagh County Board really wanted the truth the review would be 100% independent!!!!
Quote from: Fermanaghandsam on September 08, 2011, 04:37:01 PM
Quote from: FermGael on September 08, 2011, 02:01:29 PM
The man has only been appointed and he is all ready being judged.
Lets see what the review brings and judge him then.
The lack of a independent review is the problem here, not Jarlath. Within an independent review, Jarlath would be fine, as he could voice his view and the group would work together to come to there conclusion. But having the people that appointed the manager on the review commitee just seems crazy, but to be honest, not in the one bit surprising, considering the Fermanagh County board set it up. I fear it will be Jarlath against the rest, and he will back down so not to cause trouble.
If the Fermanagh County Board really wanted the truth the review would be 100% independent!!!!
It's a game of football lads, not Bloody Sunday!!
If you are gonna bother doing something, you might as well do it right or dont bother doing it at all...