OK dudes... reaction to this one... :o
Early release for killer grandson
The Omagh teenager whose 12-month jail sentence for the killing of his elderly grandfather has sparked controversy is set to be released within a month.
Eamonn Coyle was just 16 when he stabbed and strangled 78-year-old Francis O'Neill at his home in April last year for £80 to pay his rent.
Now 18, he was sentenced on Monday to a year's detention for his grandfather's manslaughter and a further two years on licence.
But Coyle, who has served time on remand since the killing, will be freed by the end of the month.
"It appears to me Eamon Coyle was sentenced for the robbery of £80. The manslaughter element seems to have been brushed aside," Chairman of the Stormont Justice Committee, Maurice Morrow, said.
The teenager's identity would have remained unknown because of his youth, but Omagh Crown Court judge Mr Justice McLaughlin - sitting in Craigavon - lifted reporting restrictions as he felt the details were necessary to allow the public to better understand the outcome of the case.
The judge said, while he was certain Coyle never intended to kill his granddad or even to seriously harm him, he had gone to his Brook Valley home "for the motive of theft or robbery".
He also stated that Eamonn Coyle "is the person directly responsible for the death of his grandfather", but accepted the teen posed no future risk to the public.
Morrow has called for further explanation from the courts of the leniency of the sentence, amid a public outcry.
"I cannot understand how and why this decision was arrived at. It sends out the wrong message to the law abiding public," he said.
"I am shocked and stunned, as I think a lot of people are."
The Public Prosecution Service is to consider the case, which could be forwarded to the Court of Appeal if it is considered to be "unduly lenient".
what the f**k?
The only way I can see they've come to that conclusion if the fella was mentally ill or something?
Nope, the judge reckoned he didn't mean to kill him and the judge described the strangling action as 'foolhardy.' Oh! and yer lad Coyle also stabbed the Grandfather in the neck... sure the report says that.
Pints, I know we have clashed on rehabilitation of young offenders before but even the Fox appreciates this is crazy. This boy gets out in a few weeks.
It is a joke. But his mother and aunt (both daughters of the victim) spoke out in his defence in court. It shouldn't have made a difference, but I think that is what swung it.
How can you strangle and stab someone in the neck and not mean to kill them?
It's a strange as that case in Kerry were they all queued up to shake hands with the rapist.
Is it my imagination or was this lad returned to custody after being released on bail for beating up a lad in Strabane who testified against him?
Quote from: longrunsthefox on November 02, 2010, 07:04:58 PM
Nope, the judge reckoned he didn't mean to kill him and the judge described the strangling action as 'foolhardy.' Oh! and yer lad Coyle also stabbed the Grandfather in the neck... sure the report says that.
Pints, I know we have clashed on rehabilitation of young offenders before but even the Fox appreciates this is crazy. This boy gets out in a few weeks.
Madness, it seems to me judges are so far removed from real life. Let me call a spade a spade here, murdering someone should mean that the offender goes to jail for 30 years. If you take a life, the state should see to it that you repay it with you being incarcerated until an independent board of assessors think that you are fit to be rehabilitated. No exceptions for any reasons. No out clauses.
Quote from: omagh_gael on November 02, 2010, 07:11:47 PM
Is it my imagination or was this lad returned to custody after being released on bail for beating up a lad in Strabane who testified against him?
Aye- a few weeks ago.
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on November 02, 2010, 07:21:12 PM
Quote from: longrunsthefox on November 02, 2010, 07:04:58 PM
Nope, the judge reckoned he didn't mean to kill him and the judge described the strangling action as 'foolhardy.' Oh! and yer lad Coyle also stabbed the Grandfather in the neck... sure the report says that.
Pints, I know we have clashed on rehabilitation of young offenders before but even the Fox appreciates this is crazy. This boy gets out in a few weeks.
Madness, it seems to me judges are so far removed from real life. Let me call a spade a spade here, murdering someone should mean that the offender goes to jail for 30 years. If you take a life, the state should see to it that you repay it with you being incarcerated until an independent board of assessors think that you are fit to be rehabilitated. No exceptions for any reasons. No out clauses.
If you murder someone you should spend the rest of your life behind bars imo
Madness. In three weeks time, he'll be back walking the streets of Omagh?!?
The judge says he is no longer a danger to society? How did he come to this conclusion?
Quote from: longrunsthefox on November 02, 2010, 07:21:43 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on November 02, 2010, 07:11:47 PM
Is it my imagination or was this lad returned to custody after being released on bail for beating up a lad in Strabane who testified against him?
Aye- a few weeks ago.
Is there a link to that?
It was in different papers about that. He is charged with that but not convicted of it.
This is a case for electronic tagging.
Quote from: Norf Tyrone on November 02, 2010, 09:05:26 PM
Quote from: longrunsthefox on November 02, 2010, 07:21:43 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on November 02, 2010, 07:11:47 PM
Is it my imagination or was this lad returned to custody after being released on bail for beating up a lad in Strabane who testified against him?
Aye- a few weeks ago.
Is there a link to that?
Here you are Norf
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11467545
Quote from: Orior on November 02, 2010, 09:34:19 PM
This is a case for electronic tagging.
Yeah to his balls.
I haven't read the case but why was he strangling a lad of that age if he wasn't trying to kill him?
I think some of the posts re 30 years etc are a bit too black and white but this one has me puzzled.
Quote from: Orior on November 02, 2010, 09:34:19 PM
This is a case for electronic tagging.
What use would that be? Unless he stays under house arrest. Sure his Granda only lived down the road from him.
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on November 02, 2010, 07:21:12 PM
Quote from: longrunsthefox on November 02, 2010, 07:04:58 PM
Nope, the judge reckoned he didn't mean to kill him and the judge described the strangling action as 'foolhardy.' Oh! and yer lad Coyle also stabbed the Grandfather in the neck... sure the report says that.
Pints, I know we have clashed on rehabilitation of young offenders before but even the Fox appreciates this is crazy. This boy gets out in a few weeks.
Madness, it seems to me judges are so far removed from real life. Let me call a spade a spade here, murdering someone should mean that the offender goes to jail for 30 years. If you take a life, the state should see to it that you repay it with you being incarcerated until an independent board of assessors think that you are fit to be rehabilitated. No exceptions for any reasons. No out clauses.
I don't agree with this whole craic that someone should be locked up until they are rehabilitated or no longer a danger to society. Nowadays it seems that when someone commits a crime that the main focus of a person's sentence is to rehabilitate them. I do see the importance of trying to rehabilitate someone, but as much focus (if not more) should be placed upon the punishment. At the end of the day, nobody really ever knows if someone is rehabilitated truly.
It also seems that everyone who commits a serious or heinous crime in today's society has some form of mental condition. I think that its too common and easy for people to class themselves as having this, that or the other illness with the aim of getting a reduced sentence. People who commit terrible crimes simply have badness in them, and if you delve enough into their personality I am sure you could classify them as having some condition but that should not influence their judgement or the length of their sentence.
Manslaughter seems to be common these days, even in cases where it seems that murder is the only charge that should be applied. In this case, how did the fella beat the murder charge and get the manslaughter one? I know one of the focal points of any murder charge is whether or not the crime was pre-meditated, and in this case I presume that the fella did not have a plan to go and kill his granda but the fact is he did. It is murder as at some stage he decided to kill his granda, and if the judge is so far removed from reality that he believes that the culprits actions (stabbing and strangling) were carried out with any other intention other than to kill the granda then the judicial system is more screwed up than I thought it was.
There are so many cases in Northern Ireland and the UK that really confuse and anger me, cases where people are murdered yet the culprits get off on manslaughter charges – it seems to be common practice. The one below is another crazy one, how was beating and throwing a schoolboy (of the same religion) of a block of flats a crime that resulted in the killer getting out as part of the Good Friday Agreement after only 3 years in jail?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2006/apr/16/uk.northernireland1 (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2006/apr/16/uk.northernireland1)
nrico, I used to be of the opinion that anyone could be rehabilitated if they wanted to. These days, I tend to agree with you. f**k rehabilitation, let them rot in jail. I only mentioned it as I was thinking of the likes of Jimmy Boyle. The way I envisage it, it would take a hell of a lot of convincing to let them out of jail, even after serving a 30 year sentence
This teeanger has not yet admitted strangling his grandfather. He pleaded guilty to manslaughter on the grounds that he found him dead and was negligant by not calling for an ambulance. Instead he went off for a night's drinking. The judge however said he definetly strangled Grandpops. So in effect he still denies it... and is no remorse or admission watsoever. He is still lying. I do believe in a chance for rehabilitation and have got hammered on the board for that in the past. But to serve no time and still deny doing it is no starting point.
For a murder charge, you do not need to show that the perpetrator intended to kill the victim, you just need to show that they intended to cause grevious bodily harm. Surely stabbing and strangling are evidence of that at least. Some judges are mental.
When murder Mens Rea should be coming into play - malice forethought. As someone said above u can be tried for murder if u had a malice forethought to either kill or cause gbh. Then theres direct intent and if that couldnt be proved what about oblique intent - recklessness or criminal negligence in relation to it all them things should be in play. Beyond me how this wasnt murder.