Might as well kick this off , What do the Westmeath lads think about this one ? I'd say you would be pretty confident going into this one (the way we like it ) .Any Down lads hear anything on the team etc . ? Could someone stick up directions from Newry . The Wobbler did a while a go but I cant find them .
Its Dundalk, Ardee, Kells and on to Mullingar. When you come into Mullingar you pass a hospital on your right, you should see fellas parking up around there. There is an entrance to the pitch through a housing estate on the right if memory serves me right.
Thks. amallon . Are you hearing anything on the team / players back ? What about Mickey Walsh ?
Quote from: amallon on February 21, 2007, 08:59:43 AM
There is an entrance to the pitch through a housing estate on the right if memory serves me right.
You're one of very few to know that, it's actually a tunnel under the canal and it emerges right outside Cusack Park, ur guaranteed to miss all the traffic if u can find the housing estate.
Westmeath having been going well this past couple of weeks, few lads to return from injury but their replacements have more than impressed. This needs to continue as we should be looking to win our home games. No point going all the way to Derry and leaving all our form there.
Downreadblack - I've heard nothing on the team, Bridgegael or fcukthemet are the men with the inside story.
Flanagan out for Westmeath
Martin Flanagan is a notable absentee from the Westmeath team chosen to face Down in Sunday's NFL Division 1B tie at Mullingar.
The Tyrrellspass clubman, who played a starring role at midfield in the Lake County's wins over Laois and Derry, is unavailable as he will be out of the country on a pre-arranged holiday. His place is taken by David Duffy, who made his return from a calf injury in last weekend's Leinster under 21 championship victory over Wexford.
That is the only change from Tomas O Flatharta's side that comfortably accounted for Derry in Celtic Park two weeks ago.
Gary Dolan and James Davitt are still ruled out through injury, but John Keane (knee) and David O'Shaughnessy (Achille's tendon) are fit again and both are listed among the substitutes.
Westmeath (SF v Down): G Connaughton; F Boyle, M Ennis, K Gavin; A Rigney, D O'Donoghue, D Heavin; D Healy, D Duffy; F Wilson, D Dolan, J Smyth; P Bannon, Denis Glennon.
Position missing from that lineup, should be Budda in the corner. Would have liked to have had a look at Jeffrey Farrell from the start. Will be interesting to see how we get on with Flan away and with Healy in midfield. Didn't have much opportunity to do anything two weeks ago whatever he did to himself. Good to see Shaugho and Keane back but shouldn't be rushing them back unless circumstances dictate. Three home games left, have to be looking to win all three starting with this one, one point will do it.
according to Hogan stand website (although how much of this ye could believe im not sure)
The Down team to face high-flying Westmeath in Sunday's NFL Division 1B clash at Mullingar shows two changes from that which drew with Kildare a fortnight ago.
Both changes are in defence and see Martin Cole and Darren Cunningham replace Dan McCartan and Adrian Scullion. Benny Coulter continues at midfield with Dan Gordan positioned on the edge of the square.
Down (SF v Westmeath): B Connell; M Cole, D Cunningham, K McGuigan; R Murtagh, D Rooney, J Clarke; B Coulter, P Turley; J McGovern, A Carr, P Murphy, R Sexton, D Gordan, D Hughes.
Going by the program the last day this team could bare little resemblance to the actual team on the day but you never know . Good to see M.Cole back anyway .
No great surprises with that team. I'd imagine Keane will ultimately take Rigney's position in defence but Davitt could have a tougher task winning his place back from Kieran Gavin if he continues to improve, the defence is beginning to look like it may be a stronger unit than last years outfit which was really quite strong.
Midfield is likely to be a little weaker this week without Flanagan, but I don't mind seeing Duffy get another chance in there.
I too wouldn't mind seeing a few other forwards tried out, possibly in place of Smyth who has never really impressed me much.
Anyone see article in IN yet , something M.Walsh being back before the end of the league .
Ross and DJ have no option other than to keep trying out at players who even have an outside chance of playing championship football. Darren Cunningham did not look the part against Louth but it is reasonable to give people like him and James McGovern another chance.
The big hope for Down supporters is that Dan Gordon finally starts to produce the form of which we know he is capable. There were plenty of good signs elsewhere against Kildare, and, although Westmeath have been going well, we are certainly not making the journey without hope. We could certainly do with at least a point if we are to stay out of division three next season.
Think you are over-optimistic Rover.I thought Scullion tightened up the defence well against Kildare while Cunningham was off the pace in Drogheda.Dan is unlikely to regain his true form in 2 weeks and I think we will struggle, even if they are without Flanagan. Are you going yourself ?
Negotiations are continuing on the key issue which you raise, DD. You are obviously correct to suggest that Scullion looks a far better bet than Cunningham, but we don't have enough quality defenders to dismiss new recruits on the basis of a single, admittedly dodgy, performance.
Rover, for a man who has a lot of opinions, your support for the lads appears patchy at best. I suppose you will be in with the fat cats at Croke, enjoying your pizza in the corporate section, singing GSTQ? ;)
I take it you are no relation to the Dubh Driocht who is always banging on in the non-GAA section about Liverpool FC. I may indeed be eating pizza on Saturday night, but it will be in front of my television at home. If I am to get to Westmeath on Sunday, I will have to outwit a much more difficult opponent than Darren Cunningham but I will keep you posted on my progress.
Dubh driocht - who are you to dictate who can comment on the Down team selection? Just because you made the over 40s side last year doesn't give you the right to slag anybody else off! How many times did you play for Down under 40?
Catch yourself on FFS! Mourne Rover has as much right to an opinion as you.
Aristotle,is the point of discussion boards not to discuss ?You're also factually wrong but that's not the point.Rover, your point about Liverpool is ?Anyway, the best way to Cusack Park is through Ardee and I hope plenty of you make the journey.
what is it with playing one man up front, very defensive minded. even when we were two point down with five to go there still was only one or two up front. i disagree bout the sending off, it happened right in front of me, mcgovern played the ball and was running on, the westmeath player was going to take him out off it but he side stepped him and threw his fist straight into the westmeath players jaw. ref had no choice but to send him off. i think if we had 15 the whole game the result would have been different.
Pretty depressing stuff lads, not the result so much but our persistence with a defensive negativity that was the hallmark of the O Rourke years. This idiotic short passing out of defence has to stop, its messy,ineffective and dangerous plus we dont have the necessary pace and skill to do it well. Was fairly close to sending off incident and thought the ref was right. The bottom line as i ofted stated is you threaten no-one playing football in your own half of the field, and that simple maxim will also apply in Div3.
This was always going to be a tough league for us, and I think anything better than ending up in division three would have to be regarded as a success. However, if we want to look on the bright side, in our first league game against Louth we conceded 2-14. Against Kildare, this dropped by five points to 1-11. Today, this dropped by another five to 0-9. If we keep this up, Laois should only score 0-4 and we might even win a game at last...
Wishful thinking Rover!
Did anyone see what the sending off was for? There was a high tackle from a Westmeath player along the sideline just before the sending off. The ref waved advantage. I assume McGovern thought the Westmeath lad was getting away with it and decided to take the law into his own hands. I was following play and missed it.
Dan Gordan and Murtagh were Downs best two players.
The defence was mean enough yesterday considering we had 14 men for about 40mins. Westmeath really only had the one goal chance (i did miss the first 10min) and McVeigh made a great save.
When Coulter or Gordan are in on the square and not being marked by 2 or 3 men that is the time for the long ball to be given. If you send a long early ball in when either of these lads or even big Magic are 1 on 1 they will win it. There were times it was on yesterday and it wasn't given. They brought Magic on and at one stage him and Coulter and possibly even Gordan was in and around the square but they fecked about out the field until they lost it. That would drive me mad.
Got the rug pulled at the last minute for the trip to Mullingar and only caught the second half on the radio , Half back line did well according to the radio but it looks like we are in real trouble regarding Div.3 next year but you never know . Bad news about Skully walking away .
Another good win today but I felt we were a little lack-lustre and seemed to make heavy weather of closing things out. The lack of Flan was glaring as Gordon ruled supreme in the middle. Great to see Keano reappear as young Gavin was tiring and coming under pressure. Boyle continues to impress and Natchie and Derek were very solid especially when it came to carrying the ball out of defence. Donal O'D was sound enough and I think that defensively we are coming together nicely, especially if Healy comes back into the half back line.
It was good to see Shaugho come in and I thought that he didn't look as heavy as he usually does this time of year. He has work to do yet though. Dessie must have covered every inch of the park. The amount of tracking back he did was incredible as well as being our main playmaker and score taker. Willo looks like he is in good shape again but Smyth still has not convinced me. I would prefer Connellan or David Glennon there. I thought Buddha lacked penetration yesterday. Bannon scored a couple of great points and I am beginning to warm to him.
Surely Tomas can do something about Denis in terms of shooting for goal. His last point was sublime and he cut the Down defence apart but once again he blasted the ball from point blank range. He gets a goal chance most games but always tries to tear the goals down with power. This is a Flan tactic but doesn't seem to work for Denis. Ger Heavin scored more goals for Westmeath down the years than the rest of the team put together and most of his were passed into the net or rolled into the corner. He favoured the slick finish a la Canavan against Kerry in the final. Denis needs to be coached in finishing from close range. More composure when he sees the whites of the keepers eyes. He is a little bit infuriating as he has massive ability and potential but seems to lack confidence if he starts badly.
It's starting to look like we could be in Div 1 next yearalthough Div 2 wouldn't be a disaster if results went against us. I really don't expect anything from Armagh in the last game as they will be getting their act together by then. Galway showed signs of a return to form yesterday and will be smarting after last years championship so that could be a tough one even if it is at home. The Louth and Kildare games will tell us where what Division we will operate out of next year. Louth have improved exponentially in the last twelve months and will have no fear of us and the Kildare match will depend to some degree on limiting fouls within Doyles range and Keano keeping the shackles on him. I would like to see Dessie being able to work closer to the opponents goals as he is still our most clinical finisher.
Very poor game yesterday but a win is a win. Westmeath only looked like the team from the previous two matches in a brief ten minute spell in the second half but apart from that it was very poor. We found the blanket defence difficult to play against but hopefully it'll serve us well if we meet teams from Ulster later on in the Championship.
Struggled badly at midfield, Duffy should have been given a run out here before he was taken off. Good to see Shaugho back but it was plain to see that he needs match fitness and lots of it.
The Dessie Dolan experiment continues and while he could play most positions on the park we struggled for inside forwards yesterday. Budda was largely anonymous and Glennon was back to being patchy. If he'd learn how to fist the ball over the bar when we're 2 points up with only a couple of minutes remaining he'd be a hell of a player. Wilson and Smyth struggled for room with all the Down players crowding around the 45 and still can't see for the life of me what Smyth brings to the team. He's not a workhorse like Dooher or Galvin and he's certainly not a 5 points a game man so answers on a postcard please...
Backs did their job and great to see John Keane back, looked very rusty when he came on but soon shook off the cobwebs. They are certainly taking to the passing the ball out of defence well but they will need to improve the passing around the blanket defence. Need to cut out the stupid fouls as well like the hands on the back etc. Rigney and Gavin are well settled in and will push the rest of the lads for their place.
Louth away in two weeks is another level though, we'll have to rediscover our early form for that. We now have to be looking for a semi-final place and to achieve that a win in the Wee County is a must.
Biggest cheer of the day was when the result of the Galway - Armagh was read out at half time :D
who was sent off?
and why did scullion walk away downredandblack?
Work commitments :(
boys id be a bit of an optimist at the best of times but frig me after watchin that yesterday im just at a loss.
We were B-rutal, end of story.
Down rooted to bottom after narrow defeat
Allianz NFL Division 1B Westmeath 0-9 Down 0-7
From Kieran Galvin in Cusack Park
DOWN are rooted to the bottom of Division 1B after this defeat to table-toppers Westmeath in a scrappy affair at Cusack Park.
The Mourne county's hopes of claiming their first League win of the season were dealt a major blow in the 30th minute, when James McGovern was shown a straight red card. However, the sending off is not thought to rule the Burren man out of this weekend's Sigerson Cup games with Queen's However, Down remained in contention throughout and in the closing stages they were pressing hard for at least a draw.
While disappointed with the result, Down manager Ross Carr did take some positives from his side's battling display.
"We knew before the League started that it was going to be difficult to survive in this division, and going a man down today left us with an uphill struggle. But the lads battled and stuck with it and it was probably a lack of experience that cost us in the end," said Carr.
Westmeath had the aid of the strong breeze in the first half but the sides were level at the 15th minute mark, with a brace of points from McGovern (one free) cancelling out scores by Dessie Dolan (free) and Paul Bannon.
Two more pointed frees by Dolan and a point from play by Fergal Wilson left Westmeath 0-5 to 0-2 ahead at half-time.
Down moved Benny Coulter from midfield to full-forward for the start of the second half in a switch with Dan Gordon.
A sweet point by Daniel Hughes and two Aidan Carr frees left Down just one point in arrears early in the second period (0-6 to 0-5).
The home side then gave themselves breathing space with points from Dolan (free) and wing-back Derek Heavin.
But with Dan Gordon making some fine fetches at midfield, Down continued to carry a threat.
A 57th minute point by Daniel Hughes reignited the visitors' challenge only for Denis Glennon to reply with a superb score at the other end, before Carr narrowed the gap again from a free.
MATCH STATS
Westmeath: G Connaughton; F Boyle, M Ennis, K Gavin; A Rigney, D O'Donoghue, D Heavin (0-1);
D Healy, P Bannon (0-2); F Wilson (0-1), D Dolan (capt) (0-4 frees), J Smyth; A Mangan, D Duffy,
D Glennon (0-1). Subs: D O'Shaughnessy for Duffy (h-t); J Keane for Gavin (45 mins).
Down: B Connell; M Cole, D Cunningham, S Toner; R Murtagh, D Rooney (capt.), J Clarke;
B Coulter, P Turley; J McGovern (0-2, 0-1 free), A Carr (0-3 frees), P Murphy; R Sexton, D Gordon, D Hughes (0-2). Subs: M McVeigh for Connell (h-t); J Brown for Murphy (54 mins); M Poland for Sexton (64); M McClean for Turley (64); G Johnson for Hughes (71).
Referee: G McCormack (Dublin).
Very scrappy game yesterday, but good to come away with a win. Down were negative to the extreme, but their defence was effective in preventing Westmeath from notching up any sort of respectable score. They failed to penetrate the blanket defence to any great effect for the majority of the match.
Nobody really stood out for Westmeath yesterday, but they did what had to be done without moving the ball as well as they did in the previous two games, possibly due to Down's mass defence. The highlights for me were Bannon's two points, particularly the second into the wind in the second half. Glennon's point from out on the right deserves a mention also, but as Íarmhí Abú alluded to, I wish somebody would take him aside and try to work on preventing the rushes of blood to his head when he's presented with a decent goal chance. If he wants to blast the least he should be doing is keeping it low consistently, but he has the skill to place the ball if he just showed the composure.
The remaining outings are likely to be tougher than what we've encountered yet, as all three teams we've met so far have performed pretty poorly.
boys whats this blanket defence shite. Dont be tarring Down with the same brush as Tyrone or Armagh, we wouldnt have the sense nor the required players to even contemplate playin blanket defence.
I know we were very deep in defence but this was due largely to the sending off and for no other reason. its frustrating to watch Benny Coulter havin to play so close to hsi own goal esp in first half to get his hands on the ball. And when are we ever goin to learn that we cant walk the ball through traffic especially in middle third of field. we are too small and weak to try that style of play, should have been playin around them on wings.
Danny Hughes had to carry the whole forward unit on his own and did admirably. i thought the defence did very well considering circumstances, its the middle third and up that worries me, and i just cant fathom havin one of our best attacking options playin as a wing back when we are so clearly needed more up front, its not as if our forwards our playin out of their skin.
there are some fellas on the Down squad i wouldnt have near the place and i have been really tryin my hardest to see the positives this year so far but fcuk its not good right now, the U21s would need to do some serious maturing to save the day.
On the Westmeath side of things they were none too impressive on their home turf but sure a win playing badly is still a win. they have one or two class players but surely should have racked up more than they did against such lowly opposition and against 14 men for most of game too.
Quoteboys whats this blanket defence shite
QuoteI know we were very deep in defence
I think you've answered your own question there. At one stage in the first half I counted 13 (
THIRTEEN) Down players in their own half.
my point is that we have never consciously played a blanket defence-style game ala Tyrone or ar Armagh, but rather we just seemed to naturally end up defending extremely deep, because of the sending off.If it was 15 v 15 then you would have seen a better game and a non-defensive Down team.
Jaysus , Down and blanket defence mentioned in the same sentence !! Maybe this is not such a bad thing either . We know the team under POR could get scores (especially goals ) If Ross can get the balance right we could be onto something . Now that's what you call optimism ;D
Quotemy point is that we have never consciously played a blanket defence-style game ala Tyrone or ar Armagh
Only talking about yesterday, don't see enough of Down to offer any comment on their other games. Number 9 was sweeping between the full back and half back lines before your man got the line and the half forwards were dropping back as well when Westmeath had the ball. It could have been the tactics to counter the wind in the first half and they probably went out the window when your man got the line. You wouldn't have to go far to see a better game than that yesterday.
I thought Paddy O'Rourke lost the plot when he was on the line for Down, well you aint see nothing yet. DJ was practically foaming at the mouth, the both linesmen got serious bollicking from him. He was up and down the line in a perma-rage. Unreal, I had to laugh.
It said on the radio that he called all the backs around him when someone was down injured , for a "time out " . Wouldn't like to go in to him after making a ballix of something . At least the passion is there .
Yeah he had the 6 defenders and the mid field pair in a huddle on our 21.
Quote from: amallon on February 26, 2007, 04:49:42 PM
Yeah he had the 6 defenders and the mid field pair in a huddle on our 21.
Seen that, thought for a minute we were gonna have a "Frankie incident" when Budda went over for an eavesdrop.
If management is working on our defence then great, we badly need that! if that means 8 or 9 defenders then even better, cos if there was one team in ireland that needs to tighten up at the back then its down. in previous years we were wide open, think cavan in casement and donegal last year. if we make ourselves hard to beat ie dont concede goals, keep teams to 9 or 10 scores a game, then we have a chance....
we have 3 or 4 v good scoring forwards that might be able to feed off counter attacks and scraps.....if we go through the rest of the year and the defence is sorted and we get the balance right inwhat we do going forward then i am happy. bear in mind, derry beat tyrone last year in a brutal game where they just sat deep with a heap of men in defence and relied on the bradley's to kick points....i would take that tactic right now....we have benny and dan hughes to do a similar job...
The best form of defence is attack, Gaelic football is not a game which allows for defensive tactics. While we may talk about Tyrone or Armaghs blanket defence lets not overlook the fact that they also the highest scoring teams in the Country
what was the story with the goalkeeping switch at half time do ye's know?
No sure ifdown2, i assume he wanted to give McVeigh some game time. Connell didn't look like he was injured.
connells kicking distance wouldnt be what would have been needed especially when down to 14 men. Mc Veighs distance would have kept the ball further away from goal as possible.
Ross didn't take any prisoners in one of the papers I saw , said it was never a sending off and a home town decision . What happened to McGuigan he didn't play thought he did rightly against Kildare ? and how did Murtagh do ?