Ulster IFC
Preliminary Round
Doohamlet (Monaghan) v Bundoran (Donegal)
Quarter Finals
Drumalee (Cavan) v Derrylaughan (Tyrone)
Tullylish (Down) v Lisnaskea (Fermanagh)
Sarsfields (Armagh) v Doohamlet (Monaghan)
Rasharkin (Antrim) v Castledawson (Derry)
Semi Finals
Lisnaskea v Rasharkin
Derrylaughan v Doohamlet
Final
Lisnaskea v Doohamlet
Ulster JFC
Preliminary Round
Killyman (Tyrone) v Corduff (Monaghan)
Quarter Finals
Maguiresbridge (Fermanagh) v Drumaness (Down)
Naomh Colmcille (Donegal) v Corduff (Monaghan)
Swanlinbar (Cavan) v Ardmore (Derry)
Grange (Armagh) v O'Donnells (Antrim)
Semi Finals
Swanlinbar v Drumaness
Grange v Corduff
Final
Swanlinbar v Corduff
The Junior winners in Fermanagh are Maguiresbridge.
They were the only team eligible to compete in the competition in Fermanagh.
Anyone know any odds for the intermediate??
Quote from: FermGael on October 04, 2010, 10:12:55 PM
The Junior winners in Fermanagh are Maguiresbridge.
They were the only team eligible to compete in the competition in Fermanagh.
Anyone know any odds for the intermediate??
Can't find any odds on it. Quite a strong field in the IFC this year. Sarsfields, Castledawson and Lisnaskea would all fancy their chances Id say.
Sarsfields might fancy their chances, just finished their second season in Division 1. A bit suspect at the back but have addressed that to a certain degree recently, and are strong going forward with some tricky forwards. I'd say the Tyrone winners would be strong enough too along with the Derry champs.
In the junior, I'm not an expert in this field though I would expect Tullysaran to win the Armagh final having just been promoted to Division 2 in Armagh, they face a Division 4 team so should have too much for them. Armagh teams don't really have a great track record in the two lower grades so its hard to tell how they'll get on!
Any dates for these fixtures?
Fermanagh teams have an awful record in this competition.
Lisnaskea could change that.
A good team, could have given the senior championship a good rattle this year.
Currently in the top half of division 1 and have a shout of making a league final.
Tyrone finals are this Sunday.
IFC
Derrylaughan Kevin Barry's v Urney Saint Colomba's
JFC
Killyman Saint Mary's v Stewartstown Harps
If Stewartstown get over the match on Sunday I'd fancy them to win Ulster. Reached AI Junior final in 2006 having won Ulster in 2005. That said Killyman have a great championship pedigree having won both Intermediate and Junior titles in the last 5-6 years.
Hard to know how the Intermeidate teams will perform.
Monaghan and Tyrone clubs have shared the last 6 Ulster Junior Club titles...........they meet each other in this years prelim round !!
Quote from: FarneyMan on October 05, 2010, 08:44:24 AM
Monaghan and Tyrone clubs have shared the last 6 Ulster Junior Club titles...........they meet each other in this years prelim round !!
whoever wins between stewartstown and killyman will likely go on the beer that week thus leaving corduff with a big advantage.
Derrylaughan Kevin Barry's won the Tyrone Intermediate Championship today.
Killyman St Mary's won the Junior.
Tullylish the newly crowned Down champions will cause an upset or to in this competition
Tullylish will be massively up against it, they are currently in a relegation battle to go down to division 3 against a team in top half of division 1, while i would like to see tullylish give it a rattle, i reckon it will be too big an ask though
although how is a team in the top half of divison 1 eligible for an intermediate championship?
That team might play division one football but the football in Fermanagh is not as good of a standard as in Down.
Tullylish beat a team who had three Down players in their team that reached the all-ireland final aswel as competing in the Ulster championship two years ago. would not rule them out.
Although remaining in division two would be tullylish's aim and believe they will stay in division 2.
Cavan intermediate winners were drumalee (featuring our own boojangles). Swanlinbar should give the junior a good run as they are a coming team in the county
Quote from: banker on October 19, 2010, 02:44:58 PM
That team might play division one football but the football in Fermanagh is not as good of a standard as in Down.
Tullylish beat a team who had three Down players in their team that reached the all-ireland final aswel as competing in the Ulster championship two years ago. would not rule them out.
Although remaining in division two would be tullylish's aim and believe they will stay in division 2.
Banker are they starting 15 or panel members??
2 are solid panel members, with no action at all this year for Down, one was the full back in the league final but picked up an injury and lost his place, came on for the last 10 minutes in the all ireland final
Anyword who won the Donegal JFC?
newtoncunnigham naomh colmcille won donegal barry o hagan of armagh fame and under 21 donegal star thomas mc kinley are the main men
Quote from: skeog on October 26, 2010, 07:05:36 PM
newtoncunnigham naomh colmcille won donegal barry o hagan of armagh fame and under 21 donegal star thomas mc kinley are the main men
Are they Brendan Devenney's original club?
correct but he jumped ship for st eunans finn harps, portadown. kildrum tigers he has played as much soccer as gaelic football
To the fellow combatants from Derrylaughan (Tyrone) in the intermediate and Ardmore (Derry). Come to Cavan for the weekend, its a happening place (according to visitors for the fleadh).
Enjoy the weekend but not the result.
est of luck to Drumalee and Swanlinbar.
Doohamlet (Monaghan) beat Sarsfields (Armagh) by 5 points in Cross.
Sarsfields never recovered from early goal.
Doohamlet were much the better team.
Results from Breffni today
Junior Swanlinbar 4.16 Ardmore 2.06
Intermediate derrylaughan 2.15 drumalee 0.16 AET
Rasharkin 1-10 Castledawson 0-11.
Rasharkin were well worth their victory.
Castledawson got the majority of their scores from frees and it seemed they were always chasing the game even though they were leading at half time.
How did the grange game go today
Grange won
O'Donnells had 3 men sent off
o donnells nothing new there 3 men sent off. as someone stated on another board they must be the most indisiplined team in ireland regularily have matches abondoned and men sent off.
Quote from: thewanderer on November 01, 2010, 10:46:44 AM
o donnells nothing new there 3 men sent off. as someone stated on another board they must be the most indisiplined team in ireland regularily have matches abondoned and men sent off.
How do you know this about a division 4 team in antrim?
What games have they had abandoned?
Yes they may have had 3 off yesterday but I've played them several times and never had a problem with them.
Quote from: thewanderer on November 01, 2010, 10:46:44 AM
o donnells nothing new there 3 men sent off. as someone stated on another board they must be the most indisiplined team in ireland regularily have matches abondoned and men sent off.
So you see fit to repeat it on two threads on this board with no proof of the facts?
P.S. Skull don't forget they are now a Div 3 team ;)
Quote from: thewanderer on November 01, 2010, 10:46:44 AM
o donnells nothing new there 3 men sent off. as someone stated on another board they must be the most indisiplined team in ireland regularily have matches abondoned and men sent off.
This statement is absolute bull.
So wanderer are you going to back up your statements about o'donnels with evidence?
Intermediate Odds available on paddypower
4/7 Derrylaughan 7/1 Doohamlet 8/5
1/2 Cross 7/1 Burren 2/1
4/6 Naomh Conaill 6/1 Coalisland 13/8
evns Lisnaskea 6/1 Rasharkin evns
Lisnakea and Rasharkin price has changed completly, Lisnaskea's price has went down to 4/11 !!!! seems Rasharking are only playing with 10 men now.
Evens to 4/11 very strange
Nah, the skea lads just being confident. They've justified it too, comfortable win
Swanlinbar 0-16 Drumaness 0-7
9 points at the end, keeper saved us.
Swan must be favourites for ulster. They are excellent
Corduff 0-15 v Grange 0-10
I'd be thinking Corduff would be favourites, Monaghan Junior champs have won the last 2 ulster titles, one game away now from another !
Junior football very strong and competitive in Monaghan.........
Quote from: haranguerer on November 14, 2010, 04:36:59 PM
Nah, the skea lads just being confident. They've justified it too, comfortable win
Should Skea really be intermediate?
Quote from: Bogball XV on November 15, 2010, 10:05:10 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on November 14, 2010, 04:36:59 PM
Nah, the skea lads just being confident. They've justified it too, comfortable win
Should Skea really be intermediate?
no
Quote from: Bogball XV on November 15, 2010, 10:05:10 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on November 14, 2010, 04:36:59 PM
Nah, the skea lads just being confident. They've justified it too, comfortable win
Should Skea really be intermediate?
Probably BogBall. They are a senior club playing in the intermediate grade.
They are in the Fermanagh League final this weekend.
Quote from: clarshack on November 15, 2010, 11:21:09 AM
Quote from: Bogball XV on November 15, 2010, 10:05:10 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on November 14, 2010, 04:36:59 PM
Nah, the skea lads just being confident. They've justified it too, comfortable win
Should Skea really be intermediate?
no
It was only last year that they were in Division 2 though. You could argue that Sarsfields (Armagh) shouldn't have been intermediate either, but sure it didn't matter as they were beaten early on in the competition. Think it will be a close final between Lisnaskea and Doohamlet.
Quote from: Bogball XV on November 15, 2010, 10:05:10 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on November 14, 2010, 04:36:59 PM
Nah, the skea lads just being confident. They've justified it too, comfortable win
Should Skea really be intermediate?
The criteria has never threw up any anomalies in the past. Promoted teams play in the intermediate ch'ship in the year after their promotion. In this case its meant a strong team playing becuase Skea have had quite a meteoric rise back to form. They're a big enough club etc, so it probably was just a dip, and boys etc probably came back when things started going well again, but generally the criteria is accurate.
Doohamlet had a big win too.
Down's system of grading is probably the most honest in all of the Ulster counties. That more than likely explains why we rarely get to Provincial IFC/JFC finals.
Quote from: DownFanatic on November 15, 2010, 11:22:34 PM
Down's system of grading is probably the most honest in all of the Ulster counties. That more than likely explains why we rarely get to Provincial IFC/JFC finals.
Tyrone also do it honestly, 3 Divisions (3 corresponding Championships) with the Senior winners, Intermediate winners and Junior winners all coming from the appropriate division, none of this craic like in Fermanagh and Armagh where teams who are Division 1 can play Intermediate etc. How is Antrim run, I recall they had something similar in place for the hurling where a team could be in Division 2 and play Junior Championship. I remember one year a Division 2 team playing a Division 4 team in the Junior Championship (with the Division 2 team actually getting beat).
Quote from: DownFanatic on November 15, 2010, 11:22:34 PM
Down's system of grading is probably the most honest in all of the Ulster counties. That more than likely explains why we rarely get to Provincial IFC/JFC finals.
the tyrone and monaghan systems are pretty honest too. 3 tiers of league and championship. 1st tier - senior, 2nd tier intermediate and 3rd tier junior. in this system division 1/senior league teams cannot play in intermediate championship and division 2/intermediate league teams cannot play in junior championship (which happens in quite a few counties and is unfair - the kerry intermediate and especially their junior system is blatant cheating tbh).
Quote from: clarshack on November 16, 2010, 08:31:21 AM
Quote from: DownFanatic on November 15, 2010, 11:22:34 PM
Down's system of grading is probably the most honest in all of the Ulster counties. That more than likely explains why we rarely get to Provincial IFC/JFC finals.
the tyrone and monaghan systems are pretty honest too. 3 tiers of league and championship. 1st tier - senior, 2nd tier intermediate and 3rd tier junior. in this system division 1/senior league teams cannot play in intermediate championship and division 2/intermediate league teams cannot play in junior championship (which happens in quite a few counties and is unfair - the kerry intermediate and especially their junior system is blatant cheating tbh).
Well, if this system had of been applied to Fermanagh this year then both St.Patrick's and Enniskillen Gaels would have been eligible for the Intermediate Championship. Both have participated in the Senior Ulster Club Championship in the past. St Patrick's got to the senior county final this year. I think the system in place is fair enough.
Quote from: nrico2006 on November 16, 2010, 08:26:15 AM
Quote from: DownFanatic on November 15, 2010, 11:22:34 PM
Down's system of grading is probably the most honest in all of the Ulster counties. That more than likely explains why we rarely get to Provincial IFC/JFC finals.
Tyrone also do it honestly, 3 Divisions (3 corresponding Championships) with the Senior winners, Intermediate winners and Junior winners all coming from the appropriate division, none of this craic like in Fermanagh and Armagh where teams who are Division 1 can play Intermediate etc. How is Antrim run, I recall they had something similar in place for the hurling where a team could be in Division 2 and play Junior Championship. I remember one year a Division 2 team playing a Division 4 team in the Junior Championship (with the Division 2 team actually getting beat).
Derry the same, top div plays senior, next plays intermediate and the bottom play junior. Your championship status is determined by your divisiion, though as I understand it, a team can decide for themselves what championship to play in, it never happens though.
Quote from: tintin25 on November 15, 2010, 12:02:31 PM
Quote from: clarshack on November 15, 2010, 11:21:09 AM
Quote from: Bogball XV on November 15, 2010, 10:05:10 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on November 14, 2010, 04:36:59 PM
Nah, the skea lads just being confident. They've justified it too, comfortable win
Should Skea really be intermediate?
no
It was only last year that they were in Division 2 though. You could argue that Sarsfields (Armagh) shouldn't have been intermediate either, but sure it didn't matter as they were beaten early on in the competition. Think it will be a close final between Lisnaskea and Doohamlet.
Who are favourites? Would probably expect Doohamlet to win, played both Doohamlet and Lisnaskea in recent years (abliet friendlies), beat Skea easy enough but got well beat by Doohamlet.
Think Doohamlet won Junior Ulster a few years ago??
Armagh has four divisions of twelve. The only way you can get into a higher grade championship is if you earn it (i.e. win Intermediate to get into Senior). The system is flawed though I think league positions should have some determination in what grade you play. Culloville will be the only Div 1 team to play Intermediate in Armagh, been in the last 3/4 finals and beat in each one!
I dont think the Fermanagh system is dishonest. How many fermanagh teams have you seen doing well in the ulster inter/junior before? It seems to be about right, this year a team came on a lot in a short space of time and are doing well, it hardly seems logical to rubbish the entire system on what is 1 year out of many.
The way the system is means teams just relegated play in the senior ch'ship - this generally means that those teams who have just had a dip year are still ineligible for intermediate, which seems fair.
Its all pretty academic anyway. Although it may be nice now they're in an Ulster final I'd say if you'd asked any of the skea boys a few months ago they'd have much rathered playing in the senior.
The fermanagh system is quirky.
The championship status is determined by which league you were in the previous year.
Plus the 2 promoted clubs from division 2 are also usually included unless the intermediate champions are not one of the promoted clubs.
This happened last year(Kinawley won the intermediate and went to senior).
As Lisnaskea finished second in the division 2, they had to go to intermediate.
Could have happened this year and Enniskillen Gaels could have been in the intermediate only Lisnaskesa won the intermediate.
Its something the Fermanagh county board and clubs need to sort out.
In Fairness to the county board, they have tried but the clubs keep rejecting the proposals.
Sure Maguiresbridge won the Junior Championship this year without kicking a ball.
Quote from: FermGael on November 16, 2010, 12:06:41 PM
Sure Maguiresbridge won the Junior Championship this year without kicking a ball.
hows this work?
Quote from: The Worker on November 16, 2010, 06:14:18 PM
Quote from: FermGael on November 16, 2010, 12:06:41 PM
Sure Maguiresbridge won the Junior Championship this year without kicking a ball.
hows this work?
They fist passed the whole game?
Quote from: The Worker on November 16, 2010, 06:14:18 PM
Quote from: FermGael on November 16, 2010, 12:06:41 PM
Sure Maguiresbridge won the Junior Championship this year without kicking a ball.
hows this work?
They were the only team in Fermanagh who were eligilble to compete in the Junior grade.
Quote from: FermGael on November 16, 2010, 09:11:28 PM
Quote from: The Worker on November 16, 2010, 06:14:18 PM
Quote from: FermGael on November 16, 2010, 12:06:41 PM
Sure Maguiresbridge won the Junior Championship this year without kicking a ball.
hows this work?
They were the only team in Fermanagh who were eligilble to compete in the Junior grade.
What way does Fermanagh football operate then? There are no teams of Junior standard then presumably for 2011?
Not sure.
Belnaleck's first team currently play in the reserve league division one. They won the junior last year and had to step up to intermediate. Think they will probably drop back down.
Aughdrumsee were in division 2 this year and did not win a game.
They have a good minor team and think they might step down to help develop the younger players.
Then again both teams may stay where they are and Fermanagh could have no Junior representatives.
God knows.
There are other clubs who should step down to play Junior but they will not.
There was a proposal voted down by County board last year to have 8 teams in Senior, 8 in Intermediate and 4 in Junior Championships.
This would seem logcal but a lot of clubs see themselves as Senior even though they have no chance of winning it, so there are 12 in the Senior, 8 in the Intermediate and 0 in the Junior.
It would be in clubs interest ( and countys) to have 3 competitive championships with the prospect of a run in Ulster as Lisnaskea have this year.
Quote from: Orangemac on November 17, 2010, 11:15:03 PM
There was a proposal voted down by County board last year to have 8 teams in Senior, 8 in Intermediate and 4 in Junior Championships.
This would seem logcal but a lot of clubs see themselves as Senior even though they have no chance of winning it, so there are 12 in the Senior, 8 in the Intermediate and 0 in the Junior.
It would be in clubs interest ( and countys) to have 3 competitive championships with the prospect of a run in Ulster as Lisnaskea have this year.
that would make sense.
Quote
Who are favourites? Would probably expect Doohamlet to win, played both Doohamlet and Lisnaskea in recent years (abliet friendlies), beat Skea easy enough but got well beat by Doohamlet.
Think Doohamlet won Junior Ulster a few years ago??
Doohamlet didn't win Ulster Junior, they got beaten in the final by Drumgoon of Cavan.
This will be a good close final. I believe Lisnaskea are regarded as one of the coming forces in fermanagh and some fermanagh folk I have spoken too regard them as senior championship contenders. They look like a side sprinkled with lads who have played inter county football at some level (senior, u-21, minor).
I think the skea's key players would be the two Little's, Daniel Killie, Johnny Woods, Mark McKenna, Niall McElroy and Brian Og Maguire. Would anybody have an opinion about lisnaskea's team?
Doohamlet are one of monaghan's traditionally smallest clubs. In 1999 they played in Division 4 and spent most of the previous decades in division 3. They rose steadily over the past decade and spent the last 3 years in senior football, reaching the senior league semi-finals in 2 of those years. A bad year last year lead to them being relegated but they have regrouped well this year. This years team is virtually the same as the teams that competed so well in senior.
Key to success this year has been the addition of ex-Armagh manager Peter McDonnell to the coaching of the team. They are a physical, very fit, free flowing, experienced side. Weaknesses are a lack of height around midfield and a serious disciplinary problem - they've collected a huge number of bookings and quite a few sending offs over the year.
Key players are current Monaghan players Colin Walsh & Ted Duffy, former monaghan players Shane and Ciaran McManus, Niall Jim Connolly, Glen Comiskey and Ollie Hughes who've played for Monaghan at underage levels.
I feel that Lisnaskea probably haven't been overly tested in their run to the final or during the fermanagh championship either, playing teams beneath their level. Doohamlet will be their first serious test and they have enough experience and quality to maybe edge it by a point.
Lisnaskea beat Doohamlet in the IFC final by 3 and Corduff beat Swalinbar by 4 in the JFC final.
Bad form from Swanlibar, is this a Cavan thing because I remember Cavan Gaels doing something similar when they lost to Ballinderry in the Ulster Minor Club a few years ago and Ryan Bell played when he was still u-14.
Cavan's Swanlibar have objected to the result of last Sunday's AIB Ulster junior club football final on the grounds that opponents Corduff fielded an ineligible player.
Swad, who lost the Kingspan/Breffni Park decider to the Monaghan champions on a 0-8 to 2-7 scoreline, claim that Corduff fielded a player who was not eligible to play in adult championship football as per Rule 6.18 of the Official Guide.
They contend that Corduff substitute Padraic Keenan, who was came on during the second half and scored a vital goal, breaches the rule as he is still an under 16 player. A player must be 17 or over to play adult championship football.
If the objection succeeds, Corduff could be stripped of the title and the game awarded to Swanlinbar.
if this succeeds then what about all the other teams that corduff beat?
Quote from: clarshack on December 16, 2010, 01:00:06 PM
if this succeeds then what about all the other teams that corduff beat?
Embarassing for a club to go down this route.
Quote from: nrico2006 on December 16, 2010, 01:49:05 PM
Quote from: clarshack on December 16, 2010, 01:00:06 PM
if this succeeds then what about all the other teams that corduff beat?
Embarassing for a club to go down this route.
it certainly is.
should it not be a recommendation rather than a rule regarding a situation like this, and leave it to the discretion of the player's club if they can play or not.
we have an u-16 player (cathal devlin) who we didnt play this year because of this rule. this player could well have won us a tyrone junior title.
in 2004 when this rule didnt exist, gareth devlin scored 0-3 in the tyrone junior final against fintona and scored the winning point in the ulster final.
Quote from: clarshack on December 16, 2010, 01:00:06 PM
if this succeeds then what about all the other teams that corduff beat?
I dont think he played at all in the Monaghan Championship
Its is crazy that a club could be stripped of a tittle for fielding a player who is considered not physically capable of playing at that level (this is why the rule exists). Surely a fine would be suffice and even then it is silly. The other club should be really embarrassed, would they contest if the team had of feilded a 19 year old female gymnast??
Why have rules at all? Sure let them all take drugs, play as many players as they want, field players from other clubs, use two balls etc etc.
Regardless if the rule is daft and illogical, it is rule, set in stone and we hear two often of rules been enforced, appealed and decisions changed. It makes a mockery of the games and the rules.
Corduff knew well the rules and breached those rules. Maybe they should have been pulled on it when they named their squad, isn't that what the GAA database should be used for.
How long will it be before the Banty starts giving his thoughts on the matter?
I agree that rules should be enforced and ahered to, its the punishment that i would disagree with, ie fielding a player that is too young results in a club being stripped of a tittle. Surely spitting at players, violent conduct, abusive language to officials is all worse offences than a 16 year old playing for the senior team? So why have a greater punishment?
Spitting, violent conduct etc are all individual actions and it is the individual that is punished on the spot.
This action was a premediated rule breach by the club/team management with the view to win a game/title. In that case a fine wouldn't be a problem, every club would field an eligible player, take the fine and the cup/glory.
According to the local paper Swad are looking for a replay.
Look I know were your coming from, Im not really that passionate on the subject I just think its sound ludicrous. I know why the rule exists, but maybe it should be looked at. I remember in Derry when Mark lynch was still under 14 hes was playing for everyside going at his club and school. he was practically the same size and level of ability he is at now!! I think to possibly deny a junior side or intermediate side a player of that ability for an important game is wrong.
Is right, its the rule that needs looking at, some 16 year olds could play senior ball no bother while some 18/19 year olds still look 15. We won senior championships in the past with two 16 year olds on the starting 15 years back.
But if the rule is there it has to be respected.
Its all about player welfare and were very much into that in Cavan.
That is an embarrassing road for swan to go down.
Quote from: Bingo on December 16, 2010, 03:37:49 PM
Why have rules at all? Sure let them all take drugs, play as many players as they want, field players from other clubs, use two balls etc etc.
Is there a rule that prohibits club players from taking drugs?
Did corduff not win the monaghan intermediate championship notsolongago?
Quote from: nrico2006 on December 16, 2010, 01:49:05 PM
Quote from: clarshack on December 16, 2010, 01:00:06 PM
if this succeeds then what about all the other teams that corduff beat?
Embarassing for a club to go down this route.
Swad are an embarrasement because Corduff cheated ?????
They might never get a chance of an Ulster title again and they were beaten by a team who chaeated and knew what they were at.
So if both teams had gifted 16 year olds and one team fielded theres (Scoring a goal) and the other side didn't, do you think the losing side should not appeal?
Quote from: Norf Tyrone on December 16, 2010, 07:35:07 PM
So if both teams had gifted 16 year olds and one team fielded theres (Scoring a goal) and the other side didn't, do you think the losing side should not appeal?
What your point?
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on December 16, 2010, 08:33:19 PM
Quote from: tommysmith on December 16, 2010, 08:14:11 PM
Quote from: Norf Tyrone on December 16, 2010, 07:35:07 PM
So if both teams had gifted 16 year olds and one team fielded theres (Scoring a goal) and the other side didn't, do you think the losing side should not appeal?
What your point?
Without wanting to speak for Norf, I would say the point is why should both clubs who may have talented youngsters each that they would like to field but are not old enough to play, have one club play by the rules and not field their underage player(s), but another club does and gets away with it?
Not sure if that what he meant maybe his point want aimed at me but on what your point, if a club plays a eligible player and gets away with it that is still cheating.
Quote from: tommysmith on December 16, 2010, 09:29:08 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on December 16, 2010, 08:33:19 PM
Quote from: tommysmith on December 16, 2010, 08:14:11 PM
Quote from: Norf Tyrone on December 16, 2010, 07:35:07 PM
So if both teams had gifted 16 year olds and one team fielded theres (Scoring a goal) and the other side didn't, do you think the losing side should not appeal?
What your point?
Without wanting to speak for Norf, I would say the point is why should both clubs who may have talented youngsters each that they would like to field but are not old enough to play, have one club play by the rules and not field their underage player(s), but another club does and gets away with it?
Not sure if that what he meant maybe his point want aimed at me but on what your point, if a club plays a eligible player and gets away with it that is still cheating.
Fionntamhnach's more eloquent point is what I meant. I know there is an embarassing factor about using an underage player for appeals but rules are the rules. If clubs don't like them take them to congress.
Quote from: Norf Tyrone on December 16, 2010, 09:37:47 PM
Quote from: tommysmith on December 16, 2010, 09:29:08 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on December 16, 2010, 08:33:19 PM
Quote from: tommysmith on December 16, 2010, 08:14:11 PM
Quote from: Norf Tyrone on December 16, 2010, 07:35:07 PM
So if both teams had gifted 16 year olds and one team fielded theres (Scoring a goal) and the other side didn't, do you think the losing side should not appeal?
What your point?
Without wanting to speak for Norf, I would say the point is why should both clubs who may have talented youngsters each that they would like to field but are not old enough to play, have one club play by the rules and not field their underage player(s), but another club does and gets away with it?
Not sure if that what he meant maybe his point want aimed at me but on what your point, if a club plays a eligible player and gets away with it that is still cheating.
Fionntamhnach's more eloquent point is what I meant. I know there is an embarassing factor about using an underage player for appeals but rules are the rules. If clubs don't like them take them to congress.
If the club didnt appeal but it was brought to attention of Ulster council do you think would they turn blind eye to it?
There are some rules that are broken frequently, but most clubs don't appeal against the crime as their seems to a certain level of dignity that they like to retain. What I am getting at is that there is different categories of offences, a team playing a player who is too old for an age group should be hit hard, as the individual would have an unfair advantage over his competitors. A team who plays a player who is suspended should also be hit hard. A team who plays a player who is on performance enhancing drugs should be hit hard. A team who has a player sent off that doesn't leave the field of play for 5 minutes should be hit hard. A team that plays a man who was sent-off in a previous game but due to an appeal is free to play should be hit hard. A team that plays a player from their own club who is 'too young' should get a slap on the wrist. It should not warrant a whole hoohaa or a replay. Most clubs would not appeal in this situation, they were beat and should take their beatings. Cavan clubs are starting to establish a bit of a track record in appealing in this situation, would they not rather retain a bit of dignity. If the game is replayed then the fella in question should be able to play also, as he will be 17.
nrico2006, thats daft.
Its a rule end of, i don't agree with the rule but its there in black and white.
What happens if one team plays by the rule and leaves out a very talented 16 year old defender who could mark the 16 year old attacker who is played by the other team? One club gets away with it and wins, while the other is left in despair cause they didn't break the rules and play the young fella. How do you measure the capabilities of 16 year olds? Swanlinbar could easily say they had a 16 year they'd love to have played but didn't cause they played by the rules.
Quote from: Bingo on December 17, 2010, 10:38:37 AM
nrico2006, thats daft.
Its a rule end of, i don't agree with the rule but its there in black and white.
What happens if one team plays by the rule and leaves out a very talented 16 year old defender who could mark the 16 year old attacker who is played by the other team? One club gets away with it and wins, while the other is left in despair cause they didn't break the rules and play the young fella. How do you measure the capabilities of 16 year olds? Swanlinbar could easily say they had a 16 year they'd love to have played but didn't cause they played by the rules.
I definitely understand the point you have made Bingo, and in that situation its pretty unfortunate for the team who decide to leave out a starlet.
Quote from: nrico2006 on December 17, 2010, 10:47:49 AM
Quote from: Bingo on December 17, 2010, 10:38:37 AM
nrico2006, thats daft.
Its a rule end of, i don't agree with the rule but its there in black and white.
What happens if one team plays by the rule and leaves out a very talented 16 year old defender who could mark the 16 year old attacker who is played by the other team? One club gets away with it and wins, while the other is left in despair cause they didn't break the rules and play the young fella. How do you measure the capabilities of 16 year olds? Swanlinbar could easily say they had a 16 year they'd love to have played but didn't cause they played by the rules.
I definitely understand the point you have made Bingo, and in that situation its pretty unfortunate for the team who decide to leave out a starlet.
It is but i think we have got too soft on rules in the GAA, too many occassions we hear of rule breakers appealing and getting off lightly, cases going to the the DRA etc, i just think its time we applied the rules and be strong in doing so. Make it clear that rule breakers of any kind are openly discouraged.
Quote from: nrico2006 on December 17, 2010, 09:51:11 AM
A team that plays a man who was sent-off in a previous game but due to an appeal is free to play should be hit hard.
Ehh??
Anyway, out of curiousity, if a team fields an ineligible player, is the game replayed, or as I suspect, the team thrown out and the other team progresses? No matter about the ins and outs, the rule is there to protect players, and if it is allowed to be bent, it might as well not be there at all. It does smack a bit of Swad being bad losers, but still, rules is rules...
Quote from: haranguerer on December 17, 2010, 01:14:55 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on December 17, 2010, 09:51:11 AM
A team that plays a man who was sent-off in a previous game but due to an appeal is free to play should be hit hard.
Ehh??
Anyway, out of curiousity, if a team fields an ineligible player, is the game replayed, or as I suspect, the team thrown out and the other team progresses? No matter about the ins and outs, the rule is there to protect players, and if it is allowed to be bent, it might as well not be there at all. It does smack a bit of Swad being bad losers, but still, rules is rules...
Some rules begger belief to be hones though, and I am surprised some legal eagle hasn't came up with some argument as to why a rule like this isn't an infringement of a players human rights (this seems to be the argument against everything these days) as a player of 16 years of age should be able to decide whether or not he wants to play for his clubs senior team if he is selected. There would be some fuss kicked uup if there was a rule that prevented anyone over the age of 35 from playing senior football.
The rule is there to protect young players and with clubs player leaving the country to look for work this rule will become more of an issue with clubs getting it hard to field teams.
Some are saying that some 16 year olds are well fit to play senior football, that is true but what about the 5 4" lad who is 8 stone and is thrown into the team because there are only 14 players and gets a bad injury and isnt fit to go to school and do exams etc.
Quote from: nrico2006 on December 17, 2010, 09:51:11 AM
There are some rules that are broken frequently, but most clubs don't appeal against the crime as their seems to a certain level of dignity that they like to retain. What I am getting at is that there is different categories of offences, a team playing a player who is too old for an age group should be hit hard, as the individual would have an unfair advantage over his competitors. A team who plays a player who is suspended should also be hit hard. A team who plays a player who is on performance enhancing drugs should be hit hard. A team who has a player sent off that doesn't leave the field of play for 5 minutes should be hit hard. A team that plays a man who was sent-off in a previous game but due to an appeal is free to play should be hit hard. A team that plays a player from their own club who is 'too young' should get a slap on the wrist. It should not warrant a whole hoohaa or a replay. Most clubs would not appeal in this situation, they were beat and should take their beatings. Cavan clubs are starting to establish a bit of a track record in appealing in this situation, would they not rather retain a bit of dignity. If the game is replayed then the fella in question should be able to play also, as he will be 17.
This somes up what I was trying to say. Although I do concede the point that it would be harsh on the opposing team if they had a young starlet and didnt feild him as they were adhereing to the rules. Though i doubt this is the case in this instance. Would it not make more sense for players of this age to have written consent from their parents to play senior
Quote from: tommysmith on December 17, 2010, 02:41:59 PM
The rule is there to protect young players and with clubs player leaving the country to look for work this rule will become more of an issue with clubs getting it hard to field teams.
Some are saying that some 16 year olds are well fit to play senior football, that is true but what about the 5 4" lad who is 8 stone and is thrown into the team because there are only 14 players and gets a bad injury and isnt fit to go to school and do exams etc.
What about the old boy at 38, stuck into the team because there is only 14 players and who gets a bad injury and isn't fit to go to work and pay the bills etc.
Quote from: nrico2006 on December 17, 2010, 02:53:40 PM
Quote from: tommysmith on December 17, 2010, 02:41:59 PM
The rule is there to protect young players and with clubs player leaving the country to look for work this rule will become more of an issue with clubs getting it hard to field teams.
Some are saying that some 16 year olds are well fit to play senior football, that is true but what about the 5 4" lad who is 8 stone and is thrown into the team because there are only 14 players and gets a bad injury and isnt fit to go to school and do exams etc.
What about the old boy at 38, stuck into the team because there is only 14 players and who gets a bad injury and isn't fit to go to work and pay the bills etc.
He is old enough to make up his own mind.
Quote from: tommysmith on December 17, 2010, 03:10:58 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on December 17, 2010, 02:53:40 PM
Quote from: tommysmith on December 17, 2010, 02:41:59 PM
The rule is there to protect young players and with clubs player leaving the country to look for work this rule will become more of an issue with clubs getting it hard to field teams.
Some are saying that some 16 year olds are well fit to play senior football, that is true but what about the 5 4" lad who is 8 stone and is thrown into the team because there are only 14 players and gets a bad injury and isnt fit to go to school and do exams etc.
What about the old boy at 38, stuck into the team because there is only 14 players and who gets a bad injury and isn't fit to go to work and pay the bills etc.
He is old enough to make up his own mind.
As is the 16 year old, or in the case where most 16 year olds play Senior I am sure their parents do not have a problem (consent) with them playing.
Quote from: nrico2006 on December 17, 2010, 03:48:43 PM
Quote from: tommysmith on December 17, 2010, 03:10:58 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on December 17, 2010, 02:53:40 PM
Quote from: tommysmith on December 17, 2010, 02:41:59 PM
The rule is there to protect young players and with clubs player leaving the country to look for work this rule will become more of an issue with clubs getting it hard to field teams.
Some are saying that some 16 year olds are well fit to play senior football, that is true but what about the 5 4" lad who is 8 stone and is thrown into the team because there are only 14 players and gets a bad injury and isnt fit to go to school and do exams etc.
What about the old boy at 38, stuck into the team because there is only 14 players and who gets a bad injury and isn't fit to go to work and pay the bills etc.
He is old enough to make up his own mind.
As is the 16 year old, or in the case where most 16 year olds play Senior I am sure their parents do not have a problem (consent) with them playing.
And 14 year olds what would be your view on them playing senior?
I don't think that case would be much of an issue to be honest. Big difference between a 14 year old and a 16 year old.
Quote from: nrico2006 on December 17, 2010, 04:10:47 PM
I don't think that case would be much of an issue to be honest. Big difference between a 14 year old and a 16 year old.
Well there was a 14 yr old on the Cavan Minor team 12 or 13 years ago.
Quote from: tommysmith on December 17, 2010, 04:17:55 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on December 17, 2010, 04:10:47 PM
I don't think that case would be much of an issue to be honest. Big difference between a 14 year old and a 16 year old.
Well there was a 14 yr old on the Cavan Minor team 12 or 13 years ago.
Big difference in a 14 year old playing Minor and Senior.
Well i dont know its a rule that is there and a manger cant even call a 16 year old now to tell him trainng is cancelled he has to contact a parent. Whether you Agree or disagree it is illegal for 16 year olds to play senior football and clubs that break the rule deserve all they get.
Quote from: nrico2006 on December 17, 2010, 09:51:11 AM
There are some rules that are broken frequently, but most clubs don't appeal against the crime as their seems to a certain level of dignity that they like to retain. What I am getting at is that there is different categories of offences, a team playing a player who is too old for an age group should be hit hard, as the individual would have an unfair advantage over his competitors. A team who plays a player who is suspended should also be hit hard. A team who plays a player who is on performance enhancing drugs should be hit hard. A team who has a player sent off that doesn't leave the field of play for 5 minutes should be hit hard. A team that plays a man who was sent-off in a previous game but due to an appeal is free to play should be hit hard. A team that plays a player from their own club who is 'too young' should get a slap on the wrist. It should not warrant a whole hoohaa or a replay. Most clubs would not appeal in this situation, they were beat and should take their beatings. Cavan clubs are starting to establish a bit of a track record in appealing in this situation, would they not rather retain a bit of dignity. If the game is replayed then the fella in question should be able to play also, as he will be 17.
would you mind telling me when else this happened?
Gales minors 2 years ago.
the one where they didnt appeal even though ballinderry broke the rules?
Quote from: Dougal on December 17, 2010, 05:17:44 PM
the one where they didnt appeal even though ballinderry broke the rules?
Do you not know that rules are there to be broke and nothing should be done when they are, or it is embarassing to appeal anyway.
As one of the longer toothed Cavan posters on this site who has vague memories of us contesting Ulster Senior finals as a matter of course it's fairly sad to see that we are now getting exercised over an Ulster JFC club final appeal. Even more galling when it's the feckin mushroom pickers on the other side of it. Shame
Lads there are two issues here
Issue 1 - is this rule a good rule. I think it is as people on here moaning about the rule are the same ones that would be moaning if some 17 yr old prodigy was burned out and never fulfilled his potential. There are managers out there looking at the short term that will abuse a young footballer. It is my opinion that the option to do that should be taken away from the manager and so the rule is fine as it is now. Obviously there will be exceptions where you get a big strong young lad that will miss out but he is an exception and has plenty of years ahead of him to win.
Issue 2 - Are Swad right to appeal. Of course they are. There opponents fielded an illegal player at a critical period of the game and this player scored a goal which effectively won the game. It is 100% clear cut an no amount of stupid jibes at swad would change this.
I think the sensible thing to happen would be for Corduff and Swad to agree between themselves to a replay in a neutral venue. If Corduff refuse then and try and defend an obvious rule break to appeals committees etc then the title should just be stripped off them as per the rules.
Who are Swad playing in the All-ireland semi-final?
Quote from: tommysmith on December 17, 2010, 04:29:13 PM
Well i dont know its a rule that is there and a manger cant even call a 16 year old now to tell him trainng is cancelled he has to contact a parent. Whether you Agree or disagree it is illegal for 16 year olds to play senior football and clubs that break the rule deserve all they get.
Official Guide (2010) – Rule 6.18 Age GradesTo be eligible for the Grades listed hereunder, a player shall meet the respective stated age criteria:
Adult: Be over 16 years.
Under-21: Be Under 21 years and Over 16 years.
Minor (Under 18): Be Under 18 years and Over 14 years.
Under 16: Be Under 16 years and Over 12 years.
Under 14: Be Under 14 years and Over 10 years.
Under 12: Be Under 12 years and Over 9 years.
To be "Under" an age shall mean that the player shall celebrate the Upper Limit birthday (e.g. 21st. for Under 21 Grade) on the 1st. January of the Championship Year or on a later date.
To be "Over" an age shall mean that the player shall have celebrated the Lower Limit birthday (e.g. 16th. to participate in Senior/Under 21 Grades) prior to the 1st. January of the Championship Year.
Girls may participate only up to and including the Under 12 Grade.
Penalties:
For Breach of Upper Age Limit:
(i) Team Penalty:
On a Proven Objection – Award of Game to Opposing Team.
On an Inquiry by the Committee-in-Charge Forfeiture of Game without Award to the Opposing Team.
(ii) Player:
For breach in Under 16 or Younger Grades – 4 weeks Suspension.
For breach in Minor or Under 21 Grades – 24 weeks Suspension.
(iii) Person(s)-in-Charge of the Team in which the breach is committed – 48 weeks Suspension.
(iv) Chairperson and Secretary of a Club:
For breach in Minor or Under 21 Grades – 48 weeks Suspension.
For Breach of Lower Age Limit:
(i) Team Penalty:
On a Proven Objection – Award of Game to Opposing Team.
On an Inquiry by the Committee-in-Charge – Forfeiture of Game without Award to the Opposing Team.
(ii) Player:
For breach in any Grade – 2 weeks Suspension.
(iii) Person(s)-in-Charge of the Team in which the breach is committed – 8 weeks Suspension.
I would have thought there should be an appeal period which when expired means that the loser cannot appeal?
The rule posted by Carbery knocks on the head the saying that if he's good enough then he's old enough.
Quote from: Carbery on December 19, 2010, 10:10:19 PM
Quote from: tommysmith on December 17, 2010, 04:29:13 PM
Well i dont know its a rule that is there and a manger cant even call a 16 year old now to tell him trainng is cancelled he has to contact a parent. Whether you Agree or disagree it is illegal for 16 year olds to play senior football and clubs that break the rule deserve all they get.
Official Guide (2010) – Rule 6.18 Age Grades
To be eligible for the Grades listed hereunder, a player shall meet the respective stated age criteria:
Adult: Be over 16 years.
Under-21: Be Under 21 years and Over 16 years.
Minor (Under 18): Be Under 18 years and Over 14 years.
Under 16: Be Under 16 years and Over 12 years.
Under 14: Be Under 14 years and Over 10 years.
Under 12: Be Under 12 years and Over 9 years.
To be "Under" an age shall mean that the player shall celebrate the Upper Limit birthday (e.g. 21st. for Under 21 Grade) on the 1st. January of the Championship Year or on a later date.
To be "Over" an age shall mean that the player shall have celebrated the Lower Limit birthday (e.g. 16th. to participate in Senior/Under 21 Grades) prior to the 1st. January of the Championship Year.
Girls may participate only up to and including the Under 12 Grade.
Penalties:
For Breach of Upper Age Limit:
(i) Team Penalty:
On a Proven Objection – Award of Game to Opposing Team.
On an Inquiry by the Committee-in-Charge Forfeiture of Game without Award to the Opposing Team.
(ii) Player:
For breach in Under 16 or Younger Grades – 4 weeks Suspension.
For breach in Minor or Under 21 Grades – 24 weeks Suspension.
(iii) Person(s)-in-Charge of the Team in which the breach is committed – 48 weeks Suspension.
(iv) Chairperson and Secretary of a Club:
For breach in Minor or Under 21 Grades – 48 weeks Suspension.
For Breach of Lower Age Limit:
(i) Team Penalty:
On a Proven Objection – Award of Game to Opposing Team.
On an Inquiry by the Committee-in-Charge – Forfeiture of Game without Award to the Opposing Team.
(ii) Player:
For breach in any Grade – 2 weeks Suspension.
(iii) Person(s)-in-Charge of the Team in which the breach is committed – 8 weeks Suspension.
Does the rules above not make the fella in question eligible?
Quote from: Dougal on December 17, 2010, 05:17:44 PM
the one where they didnt appeal even though ballinderry broke the rules?
http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=104667 (http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=104667)
So a small skinny player that turns 16 in december the previuous year is aloud to play and the man child that turns 16 in january of the championship year and has been shaving since 12 and has pubes since he was nine is not allowed to play?? And they tells us it is to protect against player burn out and the physcicality of it. Nonsense!! A clear case of a rule of for the sake of it and doesnt acchieve anything.
Quote from: HiMucker on December 20, 2010, 12:05:32 PM
So a small skinny player that turns 16 in december the previuous year is aloud to play and the man child that turns 16 in january of the championship year and has been shaving since 12 and has pubes since he was nine is not allowed to play?? And they tells us it is to protect against player burn out and the physcicality of it. Nonsense!! A clear case of a rule of for the sake of it and doesnt acchieve anything.
You're right. Age clearly is the wrong denominator to be using. They should have it that you have to have had pubes for 6 years or more.
Quote from: haranguerer on December 20, 2010, 01:10:43 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on December 20, 2010, 12:05:32 PM
So a small skinny player that turns 16 in december the previuous year is aloud to play and the man child that turns 16 in january of the championship year and has been shaving since 12 and has pubes since he was nine is not allowed to play?? And they tells us it is to protect against player burn out and the physcicality of it. Nonsense!! A clear case of a rule of for the sake of it and doesnt acchieve anything.
You're right. Age clearly is the wrong denominator to be using. They should have it that you have to have had pubes for 6 years or more.
Belter lol :D I know a few boys in their twenties that might not be allowed to play :)
Quote from: nrico2006 on December 20, 2010, 09:52:11 AM
Quote from: Dougal on December 17, 2010, 05:17:44 PM
the one where they didnt appeal even though ballinderry broke the rules?
http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=104667 (http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=104667)
I could be wrong but I think Cavan Gaels claimed that they did not appeal and that this was a false report.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on December 20, 2010, 05:27:11 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on December 20, 2010, 09:52:11 AM
Quote from: Dougal on December 17, 2010, 05:17:44 PM
the one where they didnt appeal even though ballinderry broke the rules?
http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=104667 (http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=104667)
I could be wrong but I think Cavan Gaels claimed that they did not appeal and that this was a false report.
They insisted at the time that they did not appeal, but once the story was in the news i supose the ulster council had to act as a rule was broken.