while isolated incidents of fans fighting or attacking players/refs etc are disgracefully still occasional in this country,
this pre-meditated plan of action by soccer fans shows the difference there is between soccer and Gaa sports fans.
The reason why I post this is because some people try to label soccer in Ireland - whether it is Dublin, Belfast of Cork - as being similar in its 'violence' to GAA - but while GAA have the same kinds of thugs in a minority, soccer have theirs and worse- its organised - thats hooliganism , and they are light years in their difference.
from sunday tribune today !
Shamrock Rovers fans held after rampage in rivals' pub
Jennifer Bray
Eight Shamrock Rovers fans were arrested last Sunday after causing extensive damage to a Dublin pub following a fixture against rival club Bohemians.
after the match, which took place in Tallaght Stadium, Rovers' home ground, about 20 fans travelled by bus from Tallaght to the Phibsborough House pub on the northside of the city, which is close to Bohemians' home at Dalymount Park.
It is understood the Rovers fans began causing trouble in the quiet pub, smashing windows and throwing glasses.
Gardaí arrested three men at the scene and questioned a further five men at Bridewell station.
The three who were arrested were all in their late teens and were released last week. Files will be sent to the Director of Public Prosecutions.
It is understood the troublemakers have been caught on CCTV. The pub is said to have been badly damaged and is now in the process of analysing the costs and beginning repairs.
A spokesman for the Phibsborough House confirmed the incident but declined to comment any further.
A garda spokesman said: "Gardaí at Mountjoy were called to an incident in a public house in Phibsborough at 7.45pm where three men were arrested.
"Five juveniles were taken to Bridewell Garda Station and were dealt with accordingly. A large amount of damage was done to the public house.
"All three were released and a file has been sent to the DPP."
August 15, 2010
Not the first time the Phibsborough house has been in the news for rough stuff: http://www.independent.ie/national-news/bar-manager-had-ear-lobe-bitten-off-in-fight-court-told-1420591.html
Rovers v Bohs = Bad News.
QuoteRovers v Bohs = Bad News.
Has been for over 20 years, and very little has been done to remedy the situation.
How long will it take Dublinfella to condemn this? ;D
In fairness it's a bit of a tear up in a pub. Big deal.
Quote from: Geoff Tipps on August 16, 2010, 05:26:11 PM
In fairness it's a bit of a tear up in a pub. Big deal.
Indeed, involving 20 'fans'. There was more than that chasing a GAA referee around Croker last month.
Ah - there's the whataboutery!
Quote from: Puckoon on August 16, 2010, 06:15:07 PM
Ah - there's the whataboutery!
Not a bit of it - Lynchbhoy introduced the 'compare and contrast' theme with his first post, so I'm staying firmly on topic. ;)
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 16, 2010, 07:21:13 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on August 16, 2010, 06:15:07 PM
Ah - there's the whataboutery!
Not a bit of it - Lynchbhoy introduced the 'compare and contrast' theme with his first post, so I'm staying firmly on topic. ;)
nope it is whataboutery from you
I am pointing out the pre-meditated aspect of this and thus the difference between thugs (common to soccer and all sports) and hooligans (that exist only in soccer circles - difference is the PRE-MEDITATED part)
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 16, 2010, 06:10:55 PM
Quote from: Geoff Tipps on August 16, 2010, 05:26:11 PM
In fairness it's a bit of a tear up in a pub. Big deal.
Indeed, involving 20 'fans'. There was more than that chasing a GAA referee around Croker last month.
no there wasn't
There was only about 8 chasing the ref after the leinster final
nor did any of them decide to get hold of a bus to head to croke park in order to go after the ref either !!
while some of the other clubs will have a few thugs and twits amongst them, it seems that the problem is with one club in particular and the fans are not confined to tallaght.
I know of lads who I spoke to from a south county Dublin location who were 'rovers ultras' who liked a bit of a scrap and the 'craic' surrounding it !
it seems this club happens to attract this kind of sc**bag. Prob not entirely their fault, but they need to do something about it.
or the fai need to take measures.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 17, 2010, 12:03:17 PM
while some of the other clubs will have a few thugs and twits amongst them, it seems that the problem is with one club in particular and the fans are not confined to tallaght
Why would they be confined to Tallaght? Rovers are from Milltown.
Quote from: deiseach on August 17, 2010, 12:13:17 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 17, 2010, 12:03:17 PM
while some of the other clubs will have a few thugs and twits amongst them, it seems that the problem is with one club in particular and the fans are not confined to tallaght
Why would they be confined to Tallaght? Rovers are from Milltown.
because most of the troublemakers in recent years have been from tallaght...from newpaper reports on where the lads are from that get arrested or detained by police...
miltown was light years ago and while fans still support them hailing from miltown,the 'violent' element from miltown have all grown up and no longer participate.
this club draw supporters from all round Dublin and most of them would be fine, but there is an element of fight seeking personnel that are drawn to them that I dont find of see with Bohs or Shelbourne, pats etc
Quote from: deiseach on August 17, 2010, 12:13:17 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 17, 2010, 12:03:17 PM
while some of the other clubs will have a few thugs and twits amongst them, it seems that the problem is with one club in particular and the fans are not confined to tallaght
Why would they be confined to Tallaght? Rovers are from Milltown.
yes but in fairness the new stadium is in tallaght
Quote from: lilpaulie85 on August 17, 2010, 12:18:31 PM
yes but in fairness the new stadium is in tallaght
It is, but who did soccer fans in Tallaght support before Rovers moved to Tallaght?
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 17, 2010, 12:17:43 PM
miltown was light years ago and while fans still support them hailing from miltown,the 'violent' element from miltown have all grown up and no longer participate.
this club draw supporters from all round Dublin and most of them would be fine, but there is an element of fight seeking personnel that are drawn to them that I dont find of see with Bohs or Shelbourne, pats etc
I'll take your word for it. I always thought that clubs were for life etc but I'm probably being naive
Quote from: deiseach on August 17, 2010, 12:25:02 PM
Quote from: lilpaulie85 on August 17, 2010, 12:18:31 PM
yes but in fairness the new stadium is in tallaght
It is, but who did soccer fans in Tallaght support before Rovers moved to Tallaght?
man u and liverpool !! :D
QuoteThe reason why I post this is because some people try to label soccer in Ireland - whether it is Dublin, Belfast of Cork - as being similar in its 'violence' to GAA - but while GAA have the same kinds of thugs in a minority, soccer have theirs and worse- its organised - thats hooliganism , and they are light years in their difference.
Why do people feel the need to constantly compare soccer to GAA?? One thing comparing the relative merits of the game but now the thuggish element that follow both sports. The GAA thugs are somehow slightly better because their violence is not pre-meditated??
If your jaw is broken and it's not a pre-meditated attack it still hurts like hell, right??
Quote from: deiseach on August 17, 2010, 12:27:02 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 17, 2010, 12:17:43 PM
miltown was light years ago and while fans still support them hailing from miltown,the 'violent' element from miltown have all grown up and no longer participate.
this club draw supporters from all round Dublin and most of them would be fine, but there is an element of fight seeking personnel that are drawn to them that I dont find of see with Bohs or Shelbourne, pats etc
I'll take your word for it. I always thought that clubs were for life etc but I'm probably being naive
not disagreeing with you - but rovers draw support from around Dublin not just in the locale of where they ae playing - much like juve and ac milan draw support from around italy and man u , liverpool , Celtic etc draw support from around England,Scotland, Ireland
I know sham rovers fans from lucan,coolock, sandyford and shankhill (south Dublin) as well as miltown and tallaght
Quote from: Geoff Tipps on August 17, 2010, 01:41:13 PM
QuoteThe reason why I post this is because some people try to label soccer in Ireland - whether it is Dublin, Belfast of Cork - as being similar in its 'violence' to GAA - but while GAA have the same kinds of thugs in a minority, soccer have theirs and worse- its organised - thats hooliganism , and they are light years in their difference.
Why do people feel the need to constantly compare soccer to GAA?? One thing comparing the relative merits of the game but now the thuggish element that follow both sports. The GAA thugs are somehow slightly better because their violence is not pre-meditated??
If your jaw is broken and it's not a pre-meditated attack it still hurts like hell, right??
you think its pre-meditated?
did they charter a bus to go to break someones jaw?
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 17, 2010, 01:43:35 PM
Quote from: Geoff Tipps on August 17, 2010, 01:41:13 PM
QuoteThe reason why I post this is because some people try to label soccer in Ireland - whether it is Dublin, Belfast of Cork - as being similar in its 'violence' to GAA - but while GAA have the same kinds of thugs in a minority, soccer have theirs and worse- its organised - thats hooliganism , and they are light years in their difference.
Why do people feel the need to constantly compare soccer to GAA?? One thing comparing the relative merits of the game but now the thuggish element that follow both sports. The GAA thugs are somehow slightly better because their violence is not pre-meditated??
If your jaw is broken and it's not a pre-meditated attack it still hurts like hell, right??
you think its pre-meditated?
did they charter a bus to go to break someones jaw?
Sorry I just don't get your argument. Now correct me if I'm wrong but it's something along the lines of - GAA thugs are bad but their violence is spontaneous whereas soccer thugs are worse because their violence is organised??
Quote from: Geoff Tipps on August 17, 2010, 01:54:44 PM
Sorry I just don't get your argument. Now correct me if I'm wrong but it's something along the lines of - GAA thugs are bad but their violence is spontaneous whereas soccer thugs are worse because their violence is organised??
But surely that's a basic tenet in law as to the degree of culpability, i.e., the presence or otherwise of
malice aforethought such as the distinction drawn between murder and manslaughter?
Quote from: Geoff Tipps on August 17, 2010, 01:54:44 PM
Why do people feel the need to constantly compare soccer to GAA?? One thing comparing the relative merits of the game but now the thuggish element that follow both sports. The GAA thugs are somehow slightly better because their violence is not pre-meditated??
If your jaw is broken and it's not a pre-meditated attack it still hurts like hell, right??
you think its pre-meditated?
did they charter a bus to go to break someones jaw?
[/quote]
Sorry I just don't get your argument. Now correct me if I'm wrong but it's something along the lines of - GAA thugs are bad but their violence is spontaneous whereas soccer thugs are worse because their violence is organised??
[/quote]
you are looking at it from a different angle.
my point is that all attacks and fights whether it is soccer, GAA, rugby, basketball, hockey etc etc are acts of thuggery (and I dont think they are generally pre-meditated , despite being bad and disgraceful).
the difference is that ONLY and I mean ONLY soccer have hooligans that organise their violence to 'fight' other 'firms' ( ::)) or set out to do so - organising transport to go to a rivals pub being the prime example here.
In the past on here , others have equated GAA and soccer as having the same incidents an violence.
I think this case - and others before and others to yet come - depict a huge difference in the GAA (and other sports) and soccer regarding violence, violence thug mentality and pre-meditated actions.
Hope you understand my point now.
Unlike soccer and rugby, which have cleaned up their act in recent years, GAA still presents examples of pre meditated violence on the pitch. The 'one in all in' mentality still prevails in GAA, the idea that the referee can't send everybody off, so if one fella gets involved in a punch up, everyone else dives in too. Not only is that kind of behaviour prevalent in senior GAA matches, but it can also be seen in schools and junior games.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 17, 2010, 06:32:34 PM
Unlike soccer and rugby, which have cleaned up their act in recent years, GAA still presents examples of pre meditated violence on the pitch. The 'one in all in' mentality still prevails in GAA, the idea that the referee can't send everybody off, so if one fella gets involved in a punch up, everyone else dives in too. Not only is that kind of behaviour prevalent in senior GAA matches, but it can also be seen in schools and junior games.
Give me one example of pre meditated violence in a GAA match and I'l give you ten examples of it in rugby or soccer.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 17, 2010, 06:32:34 PM
Unlike soccer and rugby, which have cleaned up their act in recent years, GAA still presents examples of pre meditated violence on the pitch. The 'one in all in' mentality still prevails in GAA, the idea that the referee can't send everybody off, so if one fella gets involved in a punch up, everyone else dives in too. Not only is that kind of behaviour prevalent in senior GAA matches, but it can also be seen in schools and junior games.
Back that up with examples of recent one in all in at GAA matches
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 17, 2010, 06:32:34 PM
Unlike soccer and rugby, which have cleaned up their act in recent years, GAA still presents examples of pre meditated violence on the pitch. The 'one in all in' mentality still prevails in GAA, the idea that the referee can't send everybody off, so if one fella gets involved in a punch up, everyone else dives in too. Not only is that kind of behaviour prevalent in senior GAA matches, but it can also be seen in schools and junior games.
Complete and utter balls. Do you play any GAA sports?
I don't know how my name was dragged into it, but of course I would condemn the incident, whatever it was. Tribune article is light on actual information and quotes and there is no mention of this beyond the article. I would have assumed foot.ie and the bohs site would have had more if it was what the Tribune are making out.
But the substantive point is that the GAA are in no position to point fingers. Hoganstand has TWO games abandoned last weekend due to violence. They have their hooligans, we have ours. But at least there is no whataboutery from the soccer lads - they ban people.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 17, 2010, 02:02:56 PM
Quote from: Geoff Tipps on August 17, 2010, 01:54:44 PM
Why do people feel the need to constantly compare soccer to GAA?? One thing comparing the relative merits of the game but now the thuggish element that follow both sports. The GAA thugs are somehow slightly better because their violence is not pre-meditated??
If your jaw is broken and it's not a pre-meditated attack it still hurts like hell, right??
you think its pre-meditated?
did they charter a bus to go to break someones jaw?
Sorry I just don't get your argument. Now correct me if I'm wrong but it's something along the lines of - GAA thugs are bad but their violence is spontaneous whereas soccer thugs are worse because their violence is organised??
[/quote]
you are looking at it from a different angle.
my point is that all attacks and fights whether it is soccer, GAA, rugby, basketball, hockey etc etc are acts of thuggery (and I dont think they are generally pre-meditated , despite being bad and disgraceful).
the difference is that ONLY and I mean ONLY soccer have hooligans that organise their violence to 'fight' other 'firms' ( ::)) or set out to do so - organising transport to go to a rivals pub being the prime example here.
In the past on here , others have equated GAA and soccer as having the same incidents an violence.
I think this case - and others before and others to yet come - depict a huge difference in the GAA (and other sports) and soccer regarding violence, violence thug mentality and pre-meditated actions.
Hope you understand my point now.
[/quote]
Yeah I get your points but 2 bunches of neanderthals with Gary Neville style facial hair meeting for a prearranged fight half a mile away from Dalymount doesn't bother me that much.
A referee getting his jaw broken during a game does.
That's all I'm going to say on the matter ;)
Quote from: boojangles link=topic=17096.msg837007#msg837007
/quote]
Give me one example of pre meditated violence in a GAA match and I'l give you ten examples of it in rugby or soccer.
But its not the point and a complete cop out.
There have been literally dozens of incidents of GAA fans attacking match officials, players and even abusing a 4 year old kid ffs recently.
How many incidents happen at soccer and their nature are irrelevant to the above. The GAA has a hooligan problem and thankfully for the GAA there is relatively benign reporting of these problems compared to soccer.
If there was the amount of problems in soccer there were in the GAA this year alone, the army would be deployed.
Finger wagging on this one is a dangerous game.
Quote from: dublinfella on August 18, 2010, 11:08:39 AM
I don't know how my name was dragged into it, but of course I would condemn the incident, whatever it was. Tribune article is light on actual information and quotes and there is no mention of this beyond the article. I would have assumed foot.ie and the bohs site would have had more if it was what the Tribune are making out.
But the substantive point is that the GAA are in no position to point fingers. Hoganstand has TWO games abandoned last weekend due to violence. They have their hooligans, we have ours. But at least there is no whataboutery from the soccer lads - they ban people.
there we have it !
this is complete and utter whataboutery from yourself and soccer folks !
until we get GAA fans organising fights and organsing travel to places to cause violence and fight - then GAA fans will be equal to soccer fans.
There are plenty of club soccer matches abandoned in leinster junior leagues and other leagues throughout the seasons. I have known plenty of lads who play and have told me that their game v whoever in finglas had tobe abandoned or that a different team in tallaght had fans encroahing onto the pitch to hit, fight, intimidate players and frequently get the game abandoned if they were losing !
That goes on as much and maybe more in soccer than in GAA !
also the 'bans' are as effective as a chocolate tea pot - I know soccer fnas still get into grounds despite being banned- Same happens in GAA though.
come back to us with your comparisons when GAA fans start organising buses and fights and tagetting 'rivals pubs' etc !
Quote from: Geoff Tipps on August 18, 2010, 11:10:39 AM
Yeah I get your points but 2 bunches of neanderthals with Gary Neville style facial hair meeting for a prearranged fight half a mile away from Dalymount doesn't bother me that much.
A referee getting his jaw broken during a game does.
That's all I'm going to say on the matter ;)
i dont care about soccer neanderthals fighting among thmselves either
however my point is - you are missing this- if that people like roversfella here are pointing fingers at GAA fans behavour equating it with soccer fans.
Thugs are thugs, but only soccer has
organised (though badly) hooligans - which is what I am pointing out.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 18, 2010, 11:20:50 AM
there we have it !
this is complete and utter whataboutery from yourself and soccer folks !
until we get GAA fans organising fights and organsing travel to places to cause violence and fight - then GAA fans will be equal to soccer fans.
There are plenty of club soccer matches abandoned in leinster junior leagues and other leagues throughout the seasons. I have known plenty of lads who play and have told me that their game v whoever in finglas had tobe abandoned or that a different team in tallaght had fans encroahing onto the pitch to hit, fight, intimidate players and frequently get the game abandoned if they were losing !
That goes on as much and maybe more in soccer than in GAA !
come back to us with your comparisons when GAA fans start organising buses and fights and tagetting 'rivals pubs' etc !
And there we have what?
Soccer has a problem with hooliganism
The GAA has a problem with hooliganism.
The specific acts may manifest differently, but the problems exist. However the GAA are not in any way dealing with these problems other than talking about fencing in the Hill. If these guys turn out to be Rovers fans, on conviction they will be banned from every soccer game in Europe.
What have the GAA done to the lad with the hurl in Tipp or the Louth fans?
Glass houses Lynchboy. Its a fair point.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 18, 2010, 11:23:15 AM
i dont care about soccer neanderthals fighting among thmselves either
however my point is - you are missing this- if that people like roversfella here are pointing fingers at GAA fans behavour equating it with soccer fans.
Thugs are thugs, but only soccer has organised (though badly) hooligans - which is what I am pointing out.
If you don't care, why start the thread? You brought up the comparison, don't go crying when others challenge it.
You did this to try and score points against soccer and it has failed. Whether the trouble is organised or not is irrelevant. The GAA has serious problems at the moment and no structures in place to deal with it.
Quote from: dublinfella on August 18, 2010, 11:26:09 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 18, 2010, 11:20:50 AM
there we have it !
this is complete and utter whataboutery from yourself and soccer folks !
until we get GAA fans organising fights and organsing travel to places to cause violence and fight - then GAA fans will be equal to soccer fans.
There are plenty of club soccer matches abandoned in leinster junior leagues and other leagues throughout the seasons. I have known plenty of lads who play and have told me that their game v whoever in finglas had tobe abandoned or that a different team in tallaght had fans encroahing onto the pitch to hit, fight, intimidate players and frequently get the game abandoned if they were losing !
That goes on as much and maybe more in soccer than in GAA !
come back to us with your comparisons when GAA fans start organising buses and fights and tagetting 'rivals pubs' etc !
And there we have what?
Soccer has a problem with hooliganism
The GAA has a problem with hooliganism.
The specific acts may manifest differently, but the problems exist. However the GAA are not in any way dealing with these problems other than talking about fencing in the Hill. If these guys turn out to be Rovers fans, on conviction they will be banned from every soccer game in Europe.
What have the GAA done to the lad with the hurl in Tipp or the Louth fans?
Glass houses Lynchboy. Its a fair point.
nope - i'd say soccer ,GAA, sports and society in Ireland have a problem with thuggery, violence and anti socialbehaviour.
Hovever soccer has a problem with hooliganism - pre-meditated and 'organised' violence not the off the cuff stuff as mentioned previously - ie:
after the match, which took place in Tallaght Stadium, Rovers' home ground, about 20 fans travelled by bus from Tallaght to the Phibsborough House pub on the northside of the city, which is close to Bohemians' home at Dalymount Park.
Quote from: dublinfella on August 18, 2010, 11:28:22 AM
If you don't care, why start the thread? You brought up the comparison, don't go crying when others challenge it.
You did this to try and score points against soccer and it has failed. Whether the trouble is organised or not is irrelevant. The GAA has serious problems at the moment and no structures in place to deal with it.
I am posting this to show that GAA is NOT the same as soccer- as you personally have stated in the past.
this incident (and many others in the past and no dobt in the future proves it)
I dont care about the violence, I am proving the point that they are not the same. If I was a cop or affected by this i'd care!
"after the match, which took place in Tallaght Stadium, Rovers' home ground, about 20 fans travelled by bus from Tallaght to the Phibsborough House pub on the northside of the city, which is close to Bohemians' home at Dalymount Park. "
pre-meditated and 'organised' violence = hooliganism !
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 18, 2010, 11:30:37 AM
after the match, which took place in Tallaght Stadium, Rovers' home ground, about 20 fans travelled by bus from Tallaght to the Phibsborough House pub on the northside of the city, which is close to Bohemians' home at Dalymount Park.
Maybe they just wanted a drink at that fine hostelry . . . okay, not very likely. Carry on.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 18, 2010, 11:30:37 AM
nope - i'd say soccer ,GAA, sports and society in Ireland have a problem with thuggery, violence and anti socialbehaviour.
So now we are getting somehere - we are now justr arguing semantics. I await with interest you posting an article on GAA or rugby "thuggery, violence and anti socialbehaviour."
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 18, 2010, 11:30:37 AM
Hovever soccer has a problem with hooliganism - pre-meditated and 'organised' violence not the off the cuff stuff as mentioned previously - ie:
after the match, which took place in Tallaght Stadium, Rovers' home ground, about 20 fans travelled by bus from Tallaght to the Phibsborough House pub on the northside of the city, which is close to Bohemians' home at Dalymount Park.
So an unsourced article claims. Nothing on the bohs forum about it, and I would have assumed they would be going mental. Did the cops ask them who they supported when they lagged them?
Is there a bus from Tallaght to Phibsboro? Surely they would have taken the Luas?
Its a sparse article to say the least.
But the fundamental point remains. On or off the cuff is irrelvant. GAA fans shouldn't really be pointing fingers at the minute until our house is cleaner.
you point the finger all the time but this
"after the match, which took place in Tallaght Stadium, Rovers' home ground, about 20 fans travelled by bus from Tallaght to the Phibsborough House pub on the northside of the city, which is close to Bohemians' home at Dalymount Park. " shows that soccer hooliganism is alive.
the other acts of thuggery etc are part of society. if this incident was incorrectly reported in the papers, then I expect a libel case against the paper and them publishing an apology.
hooliganism in soccer exists- it doesnt exist in GAA, Rugby, basketball and other sports !
no other sports fans have pre-meditated or 'organised' violence.
this seems to be worse in England and other places regarding soccer.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 18, 2010, 11:50:12 AM
you point the finger all the time but this
"after the match, which took place in Tallaght Stadium, Rovers' home ground, about 20 fans travelled by bus from Tallaght to the Phibsborough House pub on the northside of the city, which is close to Bohemians' home at Dalymount Park. " shows that soccer hooliganism is alive.
the other acts of thuggery etc are part of society. if this incident was incorrectly reported in the papers, then I expect a libel case against the paper and them publishing an apology.
hooliganism in soccer exists- it doesnt exist in GAA, Rugby, basketball and other sports !
no other sports fans have pre-meditated or 'organised' violence.
this seems to be worse in England and other places regarding soccer.
Christ. You are talking yourself in circles. No-one is disputing that the premeditated element is unique to soccer, What people are saying is so what. They have their issues, the GAA have theirs. The idea that one is worse than the other is a cheap and pointless attempt to point score and deflect.
I have no idea what happened in Phibsboro, but I will say that if 20 hooligans levelled a pub I would have expected a huge amount more press and internet chatter on it. The article isn't clear on how they establshed who these lads were and how they ended up in Phibsboro. But thats irrelevant.
you refused toaccept previously that this kind of thing happened and asked for examples. I didnt trawl the intenet but said I'd give you an example next time it cropped up and didnt expect to have to wait too long. So just giving you your requested example!
at least you acknowledge that soccer hooliganism is pre-meditated and 'organised'.
thats the difference !
as for the other thuggery in society (as I dont think the problem can be labelled purely towards sports fans) - well the law is just way too soft.
the GAA (and other organisations - sporting or otherwise) dont have 'problems' peer se - they just need to put proper procedure and policies surrounding these incidents for future actions.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 18, 2010, 12:06:42 PM
you refused toaccept previously that this kind of thing happened and asked for examples. I didnt trawl the intenet but said I'd give you an example next time it cropped up and didnt expect to have to wait too long. So just giving you your requested example!
at least you acknowledge that soccer hooliganism is pre-meditated and 'organised'.
thats the difference !
as for the other thuggery in society (as I dont think the problem can be labelled purely towards sports fans) - well the law is just way too soft.
the GAA (and other organisations - sporting or otherwise) dont have 'problems' peer se - they just need to put proper procedure and policies surrounding these incidents for future actions.
So to sum up, when there is an incident at soccer its because they are dirt.
When there is an incident at the GAA, its societies fault.
Glad thats settled. ;D
Quote from: boojangles on August 17, 2010, 10:41:02 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 17, 2010, 06:32:34 PM
Unlike soccer and rugby, which have cleaned up their act in recent years, GAA still presents examples of pre meditated violence on the pitch. The 'one in all in' mentality still prevails in GAA, the idea that the referee can't send everybody off, so if one fella gets involved in a punch up, everyone else dives in too. Not only is that kind of behaviour prevalent in senior GAA matches, but it can also be seen in schools and junior games.
Give me one example of pre meditated violence in a GAA match and I'l give you ten examples of it in rugby or soccer.
http://www.irishcentral.com/sport/GAA-to-launch-inquiry-into-mass-brawl-during-game-82941112.html
http://www.independent.ie/unsorted/features/40-shades-of-fudge-as-darling-buds-turn-gaa-into-fight-club-126573.html
http://www.irishabroad.com/news/irish-voice/sport/Articles/gaa-brawl230408.aspx
Quote from: Franko on August 18, 2010, 11:02:10 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 17, 2010, 06:32:34 PM
Unlike soccer and rugby, which have cleaned up their act in recent years, GAA still presents examples of pre meditated violence on the pitch. The 'one in all in' mentality still prevails in GAA, the idea that the referee can't send everybody off, so if one fella gets involved in a punch up, everyone else dives in too. Not only is that kind of behaviour prevalent in senior GAA matches, but it can also be seen in schools and junior games.
Complete and utter balls. Do you play any GAA sports?
Nope.
Mylies does not know the meaning of pre-meditated.
Quote from: Main Street on August 18, 2010, 06:41:34 PM
Mylies does not know the meaning of pre-meditated.
I do indeed. You don't understand the difference between deciding in advance to assault (for example) party A, and deciding in advance to assault anyone who happens to hit your mate. Both actions are premeditated, one is simply more specific than the other.
A transparent weasel like you Mylies, could not even begin to presume what I know or don't know.
It belongs to an integrity totally beyond your comprehension.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 18, 2010, 05:35:21 PM
Quote from: Franko on August 18, 2010, 11:02:10 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 17, 2010, 06:32:34 PM
Unlike soccer and rugby, which have cleaned up their act in recent years, GAA still presents examples of pre meditated violence on the pitch. The 'one in all in' mentality still prevails in GAA, the idea that the referee can't send everybody off, so if one fella gets involved in a punch up, everyone else dives in too. Not only is that kind of behaviour prevalent in senior GAA matches, but it can also be seen in schools and junior games.
Complete and utter balls. Do you play any GAA sports?
Nope.
Then how can you talk with any authority on the attitudes which prevail amongst GAA players on the pitch?
Also, you seem to fail to notice the absolutely crucial difference between a set of fans arranging a fight in a pub and players fighting on the field. You can't compare those two issues.
And and just to put the final nail in your coffin, you claim that soccer in ireland has 'cleaned up it's act'. Have a look below if you get a chance... ;)
http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2010/0118/newrylarne.html
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d28_1238448226
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKd9Ai_n_KQ&has_verified=1
Quote from: boojangles on August 17, 2010, 10:41:02 PM
Give me one example of pre meditated violence in a GAA match
;)
"My theory was that I really wanted to set the tone for our side," writes Kennelly, or his ghost writer. "We wanted Cork to know that we were a totally different animal to the one they'd beaten three months earlier."As we got to our positions, I looked across at Paul Galvin, who nodded, and then positioned myself on the line ready to race in when the referee put the ball in the air.
"My eyes were almost rolling around in the back of my head. I was like a raging bull. I timed it right and caught him perfectly on the chin.
"The message was cop that. It's different this time, boys."
Quote from: Main Street on August 18, 2010, 07:53:23 PM
A transparent weasel like you Mylies, could not even begin to presume what I know or don't know.
It belongs to an integrity totally beyond your comprehension.
Are you on drugs? Sounds like you are.
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on August 18, 2010, 08:07:14 PM
Quote from: boojangles on August 17, 2010, 10:41:02 PM
Give me one example of pre meditated violence in a GAA match
;)
"My theory was that I really wanted to set the tone for our side," writes Kennelly, or his ghost writer. "We wanted Cork to know that we were a totally different animal to the one they'd beaten three months earlier."As we got to our positions, I looked across at Paul Galvin, who nodded, and then positioned myself on the line ready to race in when the referee put the ball in the air.
"My eyes were almost rolling around in the back of my head. I was like a raging bull. I timed it right and caught him perfectly on the chin.
"The message was cop that. It's different this time, boys."
Q.E.D. ;D
Quote from: Franko on August 18, 2010, 08:03:00 PM
Also, you seem to fail to notice the absolutely crucial difference between a set of fans arranging a fight in a pub and players fighting on the field. You can't compare those two issues.
fans fighting are fans fighting. I'm sure soccer lads would say that referrees don't get broken up at their games, so the whataboutery can carry on some more.
reality is that hooligans in soccer are dealt with, they are not in the GAA. Nothing at all has happened over the Leinster final for example.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 18, 2010, 05:34:18 PM
Quote from: boojangles on August 17, 2010, 10:41:02 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 17, 2010, 06:32:34 PM
Unlike soccer and rugby, which have cleaned up their act in recent years, GAA still presents examples of pre meditated violence on the pitch. The 'one in all in' mentality still prevails in GAA, the idea that the referee can't send everybody off, so if one fella gets involved in a punch up, everyone else dives in too. Not only is that kind of behaviour prevalent in senior GAA matches, but it can also be seen in schools and junior games.
Give me one example of pre meditated violence in a GAA match and I'l give you ten examples of it in rugby or soccer.
http://www.irishcentral.com/sport/GAA-to-launch-inquiry-into-mass-brawl-during-game-82941112.html
http://www.independent.ie/unsorted/features/40-shades-of-fudge-as-darling-buds-turn-gaa-into-fight-club-126573.html
http://www.irishabroad.com/news/irish-voice/sport/Articles/gaa-brawl230408.aspx
Them articles are written by Declan Lynch & Cathal Dervan,would pay more heed to what Deirdre says in the Sun. They're not pre meditated anyway, must try harder...
Quote from: dublinfella on August 19, 2010, 11:25:45 AM
Quote from: Franko on August 18, 2010, 08:03:00 PM
Also, you seem to fail to notice the absolutely crucial difference between a set of fans arranging a fight in a pub and players fighting on the field. You can't compare those two issues.
fans fighting are fans fighting. I'm sure soccer lads would say that referrees don't get broken up at their games, so the whataboutery can carry on some more.
reality is that hooligans in soccer are dealt with, they are not in the GAA. Nothing at all has happened over the Leinster final for example.
soccer fans are not more dealt with than GAA fans. Bans dont work. not in soccer or in GAA.
refs get beaten up in soccer on occasion as well - as often as GAA. Maybe not in high profile games (are there such a thing in soccer )
anyhow despite trying to deliberately misunderstand my points - which I had let go, but now as you continue to flog a dead horse, I'll bring it up again.
Thuggery is thuggery irrespective.
It matters not that its just soccer fans that only have pre-meditated/planned/organised violent episodes - its jut that they do.
That doesnt happen in GAA circles.
Its the same precedent between manslaughted and murder. Pre-meditation/planning/organisation!
Has Declan Lynch been disowned by the Lakers? ;D
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 19, 2010, 11:54:17 AM
Quote from: dublinfella on August 19, 2010, 11:25:45 AM
Quote from: Franko on August 18, 2010, 08:03:00 PM
Also, you seem to fail to notice the absolutely crucial difference between a set of fans arranging a fight in a pub and players fighting on the field. You can't compare those two issues.
fans fighting are fans fighting. I'm sure soccer lads would say that referrees don't get broken up at their games, so the whataboutery can carry on some more.
reality is that hooligans in soccer are dealt with, they are not in the GAA. Nothing at all has happened over the Leinster final for example.
soccer fans are not more dealt with than GAA fans. Bans dont work. not in soccer or in GAA.
refs get beaten up in soccer on occasion as well - as often as GAA. Maybe not in high profile games (are there such a thing in soccer )
anyhow despite trying to deliberately misunderstand my points - which I had let go, but now as you continue to flog a dead horse, I'll bring it up again.
Thuggery is thuggery irrespective.
It matters not that its just soccer fans that only have pre-meditated/planned/organised violent episodes - its jut that they do.
That doesnt happen in GAA circles.
Its the same precedent between manslaughted and murder. Pre-meditation/planning/organisation!
Now I know this is a piss take ::)
Quote from: thebigfella on August 19, 2010, 12:17:16 PM
Now I know this is a piss take ::)
Its been quite the backfire by the Lynch
Quote from: thebigfella on August 19, 2010, 12:17:16 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 19, 2010, 11:54:17 AM
Quote from: dublinfella on August 19, 2010, 11:25:45 AM
Quote from: Franko on August 18, 2010, 08:03:00 PM
Also, you seem to fail to notice the absolutely crucial difference between a set of fans arranging a fight in a pub and players fighting on the field. You can't compare those two issues.
fans fighting are fans fighting. I'm sure soccer lads would say that referrees don't get broken up at their games, so the whataboutery can carry on some more.
reality is that hooligans in soccer are dealt with, they are not in the GAA. Nothing at all has happened over the Leinster final for example.
soccer fans are not more dealt with than GAA fans. Bans dont work. not in soccer or in GAA.
refs get beaten up in soccer on occasion as well - as often as GAA. Maybe not in high profile games (are there such a thing in soccer )
anyhow despite trying to deliberately misunderstand my points - which I had let go, but now as you continue to flog a dead horse, I'll bring it up again.
Thuggery is thuggery irrespective.
It matters not that its just soccer fans that only have pre-meditated/planned/organised violent episodes - its jut that they do.
That doesnt happen in GAA circles.
Its the same precedent between manslaughted and murder. Pre-meditation/planning/organisation!
Now I know this is a piss take ::)
apologies - meant local Irish soccer !
as this was what was being discussed I took it for granted people would understand. Anyhow, clarified now!
roversfella still trying to go off on tangents to deflect I see! :D
Quote from: Billys Boots on August 19, 2010, 12:06:07 PM
Has Declan Lynch been disowned by the Lakers? ;D
Himself and the 2 McCalls, think they live out the Roscommon Road anyway... :P
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 19, 2010, 12:57:48 PM
apologies - meant local Irish soccer !
as this was what was being discussed I took it for granted people would understand. Anyhow, clarified now!
roversfella still trying to go off on tangents to deflect I see! :D
Clarified my arse. What are you actually arguing?
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 18, 2010, 06:46:37 PM
Quote from: Main Street on August 18, 2010, 06:41:34 PM
Mylies does not know the meaning of pre-meditated.
I do indeed. You don't understand the difference between deciding in advance to assault (for example) party A, and deciding in advance to assault anyone who happens to hit your mate. Both actions are premeditated, one is simply more specific than the other.
Thanks for the giggle Myles. If you can prove any of them were pre-meditated (planned in advance) then you should be given Mod status on this forum. Until then, keep spinning.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on August 19, 2010, 01:30:09 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on August 19, 2010, 12:06:07 PM
Has Declan Lynch been disowned by the Lakers? ;D
Himself and the 2 McCalls, think they live out the Roscommon Road anyway... :P
He's from Moate.
Quote from: boojangles on August 17, 2010, 10:41:02 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 17, 2010, 06:32:34 PM
Unlike soccer and rugby, which have cleaned up their act in recent years, GAA still presents examples of pre meditated violence on the pitch. The 'one in all in' mentality still prevails in GAA, the idea that the referee can't send everybody off, so if one fella gets involved in a punch up, everyone else dives in too. Not only is that kind of behaviour prevalent in senior GAA matches, but it can also be seen in schools and junior games.
Give me one example of pre meditated violence in a GAA match and I'l give you ten examples of it in rugby or soccer.
I gave you 3 - still waiting for your 30. Don't leave it too long or people will start thinking you were talking crap. :D
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 19, 2010, 06:50:49 PM
Quote from: boojangles on August 17, 2010, 10:41:02 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 17, 2010, 06:32:34 PM
Unlike soccer and rugby, which have cleaned up their act in recent years, GAA still presents examples of pre meditated violence on the pitch. The 'one in all in' mentality still prevails in GAA, the idea that the referee can't send everybody off, so if one fella gets involved in a punch up, everyone else dives in too. Not only is that kind of behaviour prevalent in senior GAA matches, but it can also be seen in schools and junior games.
Give me one example of pre meditated violence in a GAA match and I'l give you ten examples of it in rugby or soccer.
I gave you 3 - still waiting for your 30. Don't leave it too long or people will start thinking you were talking crap. :D
No, you gave me 3 examples of GAA violence. Not pre-meditated violence. Your record for talking crap on here is well known.
The Real Laois Lad gave 1 example of pre-meditated GAA violence. You Myles did not.
Quote from: boojangles on August 19, 2010, 07:07:16 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 19, 2010, 06:50:49 PM
Quote from: boojangles on August 17, 2010, 10:41:02 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 17, 2010, 06:32:34 PM
Unlike soccer and rugby, which have cleaned up their act in recent years, GAA still presents examples of pre meditated violence on the pitch. The 'one in all in' mentality still prevails in GAA, the idea that the referee can't send everybody off, so if one fella gets involved in a punch up, everyone else dives in too. Not only is that kind of behaviour prevalent in senior GAA matches, but it can also be seen in schools and junior games.
Give me one example of pre meditated violence in a GAA match and I'l give you ten examples of it in rugby or soccer.
I gave you 3 - still waiting for your 30. Don't leave it too long or people will start thinking you were talking crap. :D
No, you gave me 3 examples of GAA violence. Not pre-meditated violence. Your record for talking crap on here is well known.
The Real Laois Lad gave 1 example of pre-meditated GAA violence. You Myles did not.
What's your next claim - you can eat 50 eggs? ;)
Quote from: boojangles on August 19, 2010, 07:07:16 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 19, 2010, 06:50:49 PM
Quote from: boojangles on August 17, 2010, 10:41:02 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 17, 2010, 06:32:34 PM
Unlike soccer and rugby, which have cleaned up their act in recent years, GAA still presents examples of pre meditated violence on the pitch. The 'one in all in' mentality still prevails in GAA, the idea that the referee can't send everybody off, so if one fella gets involved in a punch up, everyone else dives in too. Not only is that kind of behaviour prevalent in senior GAA matches, but it can also be seen in schools and junior games.
Give me one example of pre meditated violence in a GAA match and I'l give you ten examples of it in rugby or soccer.
I gave you 3 - still waiting for your 30. Don't leave it too long or people will start thinking you were talking crap. :D
No, you gave me 3 examples of GAA violence. Not pre-meditated violence. Your record for talking crap on here is well known.
The Real Laois Lad gave 1 example of pre-meditated GAA violence. You Myles did not.
laois lad as per usual gave an answer that was in the 'wrong room' ;) and irrelevant !!
but that was on field players fighting, not fan violence which is what we are talking about.
roy keanes episodes out do kennellys slap.(I still dont believe it was premeditated - kennellly was using this to sell his book imo - hes not hard or tough and wouldnt have previous in this kind of thing! just my own view).
either way its not an example as its nothing to do with fan violence which is what we are actually talking about!!
Quote from: the colonel on August 17, 2010, 11:18:19 AM
There was only about 8 chasing the ref after the leinster final
That's because 12 of them couldn't actually run.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 19, 2010, 08:43:11 PM
Quote from: boojangles on August 19, 2010, 07:07:16 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 19, 2010, 06:50:49 PM
Quote from: boojangles on August 17, 2010, 10:41:02 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 17, 2010, 06:32:34 PM
Unlike soccer and rugby, which have cleaned up their act in recent years, GAA still presents examples of pre meditated violence on the pitch. The 'one in all in' mentality still prevails in GAA, the idea that the referee can't send everybody off, so if one fella gets involved in a punch up, everyone else dives in too. Not only is that kind of behaviour prevalent in senior GAA matches, but it can also be seen in schools and junior games.
Give me one example of pre meditated violence in a GAA match and I'l give you ten examples of it in rugby or soccer.
I gave you 3 - still waiting for your 30. Don't leave it too long or people will start thinking you were talking crap. :D
No, you gave me 3 examples of GAA violence. Not pre-meditated violence. Your record for talking crap on here is well known.
The Real Laois Lad gave 1 example of pre-meditated GAA violence. You Myles did not.
laois lad as per usual gave an answer that was in the 'wrong room' ;) and irrelevant !!
but that was on field players fighting, not fan violence which is what we are talking about.
roy keanes episodes out do kennellys slap.(I still dont believe it was premeditated - kennellly was using this to sell his book imo - hes not hard or tough and wouldnt have previous in this kind of thing! just my own view).
either way its not an example as its nothing to do with fan violence which is what we are actually talking about!!
I pointed this out to Miley a while back but he seemed to ignore me. He has resorted to replyin with what he thinks are witty retorts without actually discussing the issue - pretty standard for him when he's caught out talking balls.
Quote from: lynchbhoy link=topic=17096.msg837746#msg837746 date=128224/
laois lad as per usual gave an answer that was in the 'wrong room' ;) and irrelevant !!
but that was on field players fighting, not fan violence which is what we are talking about.
roy keanes episodes out do kennellys slap.(I still dont believe it was premeditated - kennellly was using this to sell his book imo - hes not hard or tough and wouldnt have previous in this kind of thing! just my own view).
either way its not an example as its nothing to do with fan violence which is what we are actually talking about!!
But the rest of us are talking about fan violence in the GAA - the Leinster final, the incident in Tipp, the two games llast weekened called off after pitch invasionjs.
I ask again, whats your point?
Quote from: dublinfella on August 20, 2010, 11:29:50 AM
I ask again, whats your point?
from the thread title and from the first few lines of the opening post
"The reason why I post this is because some people try to label soccer in Ireland - whether it is Dublin, Belfast of Cork - as being similar in its 'violence' to GAA - but while GAA have the same kinds of thugs in a minority, soccer have theirs and worse- its organised - thats hooliganism , and they are light years in their difference."
you asked for examples before where soccer violence differs from ordinary thuggery and how soccer hooliganism/violence differs from any violence GAA...I have given you one !
its not the first time this kind of thing has happened with socce fans and I doubt it will be the last !
hope you are happy with this now. what steps need to be taken - banning sham rovers, as the problem isnt nearly as bad with most other soccer clubs
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 20, 2010, 01:35:52 PM
from the thread title and from the first few lines of the opening post
"The reason why I post this is because some people try to label soccer in Ireland - whether it is Dublin, Belfast of Cork - as being similar in its 'violence' to GAA - but while GAA have the same kinds of thugs in a minority, soccer have theirs and worse- its organised - thats hooliganism , and they are light years in their difference."
you asked for examples before where soccer violence differs from ordinary thuggery and how soccer hooliganism/violence differs from any violence GAA...I have given you one !
its not the first time this kind of thing has happened with socce fans and I doubt it will be the last !
hope you are happy with this now. what steps need to be taken - banning sham rovers, as the problem isnt nearly as bad with most other soccer clubs
So you are deflecting - the hooligan problem in the GAA isn't as bad as that in soccer because theire is a difference of premeditation, so we don't need to do anything about it.
Mother of God.
Roversfella - make up your mind , which is it?
One min you agree , next thing you dispute that the hooliganism exists in soccer and in local Irish soccer!
The newspaper wrote it's story that is true and factual otherwise we would be hearing about libel and slander from fai and most likely yourself as chief soccer hooliganism apologist as you are doing now!!!
Apart from the odd scrap that happens in all sports from players or fans that's about it!
However pre-meditated hooliganism, pre-planned orchestrated and organised violence are only done by soccer fans in this country and by shamrovers fans in particular.... So you cannot compare the good behaviour of GAA fans to soccer fans , nor compare violence or fights in the GAA to soccer as such incidents as reported in the news article arecommon only to soccer and shamrovers! Maybe a ban or deleting shamrovers is the only option to ensure safety!
Pre-meditated hooliganism is such a difficult phrase to grasp the meaning of. No wonder dublinfella and Mylies are in such a flux.
Lynchbhoy , you should have tagged a warning in the thread title - 'highbrow only'.
Quote from: Main Street on August 20, 2010, 05:51:57 PM
Pre-meditated hooliganism is such a difficult phrase to grasp the meaning of. No wonder dublinfella and Mylies are in such a flux.
Lynchbhoy , you should have tagged a warning in the thread title - 'highbrow only'.
:D :D
Lynchbhoy and highbrow in the same sentence - oxymoron alert!!
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 20, 2010, 06:22:38 PM
Quote from: Main Street on August 20, 2010, 05:51:57 PM
Pre-meditated hooliganism is such a difficult phrase to grasp the meaning of. No wonder dublinfella and Mylies are in such a flux.
Lynchbhoy , you should have tagged a warning in the thread title - 'highbrow only'.
:D :D
Lynchbhoy and highbrow in the same sentence - oxymoron alert!!
Quote from: Franko on August 19, 2010, 08:46:33 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 19, 2010, 08:43:11 PM
Quote from: boojangles on August 19, 2010, 07:07:16 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 19, 2010, 06:50:49 PM
Quote from: boojangles on August 17, 2010, 10:41:02 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on August 17, 2010, 06:32:34 PM
Unlike soccer and rugby, which have cleaned up their act in recent years, GAA still presents examples of pre meditated violence on the pitch. The 'one in all in' mentality still prevails in GAA, the idea that the referee can't send everybody off, so if one fella gets involved in a punch up, everyone else dives in too. Not only is that kind of behaviour prevalent in senior GAA matches, but it can also be seen in schools and junior games.
Give me one example of pre meditated violence in a GAA match and I'l give you ten examples of it in rugby or soccer.
I gave you 3 - still waiting for your 30. Don't leave it too long or people will start thinking you were talking crap. :D
No, you gave me 3 examples of GAA violence. Not pre-meditated violence. Your record for talking crap on here is well known.
The Real Laois Lad gave 1 example of pre-meditated GAA violence. You Myles did not.
laois lad as per usual gave an answer that was in the 'wrong room' ;) and irrelevant !!
but that was on field players fighting, not fan violence which is what we are talking about.
roy keanes episodes out do kennellys slap.(I still dont believe it was premeditated - kennellly was using this to sell his book imo - hes not hard or tough and wouldnt have previous in this kind of thing! just my own view).
either way its not an example as its nothing to do with fan violence which is what we are actually talking about!!
I pointed this out to Miley a while back but he seemed to ignore me. He has resorted to replyin with what he thinks are witty retorts without actually discussing the issue - pretty standard for him when he's caught out talking balls.
:D :D Moron indeed...!
Mylies' transparency is obvious to most everybody, except himself.
If only he knew that he should back off and slither away.
Perhaps brush up on a few techniques.
(http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/radically-transparent-tilt.jpg)