The wonderful Dubs against the cute Corkonians ;)
Canty will be a huge loss for the Cork men if he's not fit in time, possibly decisively so.
is this on mick collins anniversary?
Anyways in most people eyes this is already the All-Ireland decider.
Cork's biggest strength, running at pace at players is probably Dublin's biggest defensive weakness as they concede an awful lot of fouls to this strong running, they've a lot work to do defensively so would probably favour Cork at the moment but very hard to call.
PP:
Cork 4/6
Dublin 13/8
If Cork's current form continues then Dublin will definitely have a great chance. But the fear is that the real Cork will finally stand up.
If Cork beat Dublin, then I think they'll improve again and take Sam. A Dublin win would mean a very close final.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 02, 2010, 01:43:21 PM
Anyone in most people eyes this is already the All-Ireland decider.
Cork's biggest strength, running at pace at players is probably Dublin's biggest defensive weakness as they concede an awful lot of fouls to this strong running, they've a lot work to do defensively so would probably favour Cork at the moment but very hard to call.
Jaysus that's an early gambit for the 'yerra we've no hope at all' award. :D
I remember reading an interview where a Dublin player said that they were better off not meeting Cork in the league final as theyd get beaten easily. I wonder what think think now?
Quote from: Chris agus Snoop on August 02, 2010, 05:28:20 PM
I wonder what they think now?
I'd say that they don't think that at alll now -- they're in a much better place at this juncture than they were at that one, primarily psychologically. Their confidence in their 'system' now will be solid, and that allied to the workrate and application of this particular team will only bolster that confidence.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 02, 2010, 01:43:21 PM
Anyways in most people eyes this is already the All-Ireland decider.
Cork's biggest strength, running at pace at players is probably Dublin's biggest defensive weakness as they concede an awful lot of fouls to this strong running, they've a lot work to do defensively so would probably favour Cork at the moment but very hard to call.
I'd say Cork forwards are big enough that they are unlikely to fall over as easily as other teams forwards have done in the tackle...
Looking forward to this game. The whole thing is wide open now so all to play for.
We'll see Sunday fortnight whether Cork justified their inclusion in the big three - they have a superior spread of scoring forwards than us, their spine is stronger and are far more advanced in their development, but I don't fear them.
Haven't seen any odds or handicaps but I'd imagine Cork +3 or thereabouts..
if cork keep up their current form Dublin have a great chance of beating them. If cork can hit top form then i can only see them wonning
Sobering stats for the Dubs, from Gavin Cummiskey in today's Irish Times (Cummiskey's Piece (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2010/0803/1224276087958.html))
Tyrone's defeat to Dublin, from a statistical perspective anyway, stems primarily from their 17 wides. They had 56 per cent of the possession, completed almost double the number of accurate passes and carried 117 times to Dublin's 74.
Although it's fair to say that because of the exclusively short kick-outs those stats aren't truly reflective, and Dublin would expect to secure more primary possession against Cork (from the longer kick-outs).
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 03, 2010, 09:22:11 PM
Sobering stats for the Dubs, from Gavin Cummiskey in today's Irish Times (Cummiskey's Piece (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2010/0803/1224276087958.html))
Tyrone's defeat to Dublin, from a statistical perspective anyway, stems primarily from their 17 wides. They had 56 per cent of the possession, completed almost double the number of accurate passes and carried 117 times to Dublin's 74.
Although it's fair to say that because of the exclusively short kick-outs those stats aren't truly reflective, and Dublin would expect to secure more primary possession against Cork (from the longer kick-outs).
Is that a record for short kickouts (last Saturday ) ?
I would say so John, almost came off ;)
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 03, 2010, 09:36:31 PM
I would say so John, almost came off ;)
As I sat in the Canal end in the first half I was amazed at the amount of work involved in getting the ball down to the other end . It allows the other team to back off and only tackle when the ball gets into the oter half . The one Tyrone player who looked dangerous all day was Mulligan .
Is there no one in Tyrone that could catch a ball around the middle?
Not so much about not being able (at all) Jinxy, more about maximising the percentages, where against Dublin the manager's suspicion was that we might win only 40% of our own kick-outs; paradoxically, we've never been particularly strong in that respect in recent years, but perhaps we had more of the running game to counteract the opposition's superiority in the middle, formerly.
Definitely a concern though, and the fixing of which will constitute something of an immediate priority I'd say.
Quote from: Jinxy on August 03, 2010, 09:59:20 PM
Is there no one in Tyrone that could catch a ball around the middle?
Jinxy when you put a half forward back in front of your fullback line it really reduces you chances of winning breaking ball especially when it's your biggest half forward and when the midfielders aren't used to winning the ball it also reduces the chances.
I'm surprised that no team has seen McMahon as the obvious weak link in that full back line and targeted him more. Armagh and Tyrone left him off to be the spare man.
Quote from: liihb on August 04, 2010, 04:26:12 PM
I'm surprised that no team has seen McMahon as the obvious weak link in that full back line and targeted him more. Armagh and Tyrone left him off to be the spare man.
Philly McMahon is a solid player.
There are no glaring weakness in that Dublin full backline.
Fitzimmons,O Carroll and McMahon work together fairly well as a unit.
Disagree on Philly McMahon, have seen him quite a few times at club level and solid alright, but not to the standard or potential of the other 2. In saying that, I don't have too many alternatives, but you saw what Bray did to him
From today's De Paper. Canty to be a big loss. Cork looked leaderless without him in the later stages of the replay against Kerry in the Munster semi-final.
CORK captain Graham Canty looks set to miss their All-Ireland semi-final battle against Dublin after a scan revealed that he had suffered a Grade 2 tear to his hamstring during Sunday's quarter-final win over Roscommon.
Canty underwent the scan on Monday and the results yesterday confirmed the extent of the injury, which leaves him facing an uphill battle to be available for the Dublin clash. The recovery period for that type of hamstring tear is generally four to six weeks which means Canty would require a major recovery to be available for the August 22 tie in Croke Park and the loss of their talismanic captain would be a major blow to Cork's aspirations.
In addition Cork full-forward Ciaran Sheehan is classed as a major doubt after a scan showed he had damaged the cartilage in his right knee towards the end of the Roscommon match. The 19-year-old, who has impressed in his debut season at senior inter-county level, could require keyhole surgery.
http://irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/hopes-fading-for-canty-to-face-dublin-126988.html (http://irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/hopes-fading-for-canty-to-face-dublin-126988.html)
I can see Cork using the short kickouts similar to Tyrone in an attempt to draw Dublin out/ secure guaranteed possession.
Quote from: timmykelleher on August 04, 2010, 11:11:58 PM
I can see Cork using the short kickouts similar to Tyrone in an attempt to draw Dublin out/ secure guaranteed possession.
:D. You must be joking!. with the size advantage Cork have around the middle thats better then any kerryman's yerra yerra.
Quote from: timmykelleher on August 04, 2010, 11:11:58 PM
I can see Cork using the short kickouts similar to Tyrone in an attempt to draw Dublin out/ secure guaranteed possession.
Pulease! No chance of Cork going short - they are far stronger in midfield than us
Cork been favourites will help the Dubs in this game, It's hard to believe Dublin & Cork have gone so long since winning Sam in Dublins case it's 1995 since there last final, great chance for both to end the famine... IMO Cork will win if they start the 15 that finished v us
Quote from: ross4life on August 05, 2010, 05:43:35 PM
Cork been favourites will help the Dubs in this game, It's hard to believe Dublin & Cork have gone so long since winning Sam in Dublins case it's 1995 since there last final, great chance for both to end the famine... IMO Cork will win if they start the 15 that finished v us
cork aren't as big a favourites as they should be. Dublin's odds are shortening unfortunately which will fuel the hype that has been dormant to now. Also I'm not sure we're as good as people think we are. Just hoping for a decent performance. Anything else is a bonus.
How many of the Dublin starting 15 v Tyrone are 23 or under it's seems like a very young looking team this year
IMO Bernard Brogan has been Footballer of the Year so far.. will be interesting to see how the cork backs deal with him? & Gaa HQ said it's going to be a sell out so 60,000 Dubs going?
Quote from: INDIANA on August 05, 2010, 09:57:07 PM
I'm not sure we're as good as people think we are. Just hoping for a decent performance. Anything else is a bonus.
You're supposed to put a YERRA or 2 before them kind of comments :D :D
Quote from: ross4life on August 05, 2010, 10:02:30 PM
How many of the Dublin starting 15 v Tyrone are 23 or under it's seems like a very young looking team this year
IMO Bernard Brogan has been Footballer of the Year so far.. will be interesting to see how the cork backs deal with him? & Gaa HQ said it's going to be a sell out so 60,000 Dubs going?
He has but he he still doesn't have the consistent string of good performances in the championship his brother has. Bernard is far more gifted but at times isn't as consistent. Its tough as he's usually double marked these days. But by and large he's been brilliant this year.
u23's not many Ross.
Mc Auley is 23. You'd have to ask Pillar why that took so long
Nolan is 22
Mc Mahon is about 22.
O Carroll is 21
Thats it from the first 15.
Quote from: Rossfan on August 05, 2010, 10:04:33 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 05, 2010, 09:57:07 PM
I'm not sure we're as good as people think we are. Just hoping for a decent performance. Anything else is a bonus.
You're supposed to put a YERRA or 2 before them kind of comments :D :D
Its true though. Still a very raw Dublin team. Cork are far more experienced and seasoned.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 05, 2010, 10:09:43 PM
Quote from: ross4life on August 05, 2010, 10:02:30 PM
How many of the Dublin starting 15 v Tyrone are 23 or under it's seems like a very young looking team this year
IMO Bernard Brogan has been Footballer of the Year so far.. will be interesting to see how the cork backs deal with him? & Gaa HQ said it's going to be a sell out so 60,000 Dubs going?
He has but he he still doesn't have the consistent string of good performances in the championship his brother has. Bernard is far more gifted but at times isn't as consistent. Its tough as he's usually double marked these days. But by and large he's been brilliant this year.
u23's not many Ross.
Mc Auley is 23. You'd have to ask Pillar why that took so long
Nolan is 22
Mc Mahon is about 22.
O Carroll is 21
Thats it from the first 15.
Fitzsimons is 20/21 - he was full back on the Cuala U21 team who won the A championship this year.
McCauley did a year in Australia plus a few summers in the States while in college
Flynn, O'Gara, Brennan & Corkery all 24
Quote from: heffo on August 05, 2010, 10:28:26 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 05, 2010, 10:09:43 PM
Quote from: ross4life on August 05, 2010, 10:02:30 PM
How many of the Dublin starting 15 v Tyrone are 23 or under it's seems like a very young looking team this year
IMO Bernard Brogan has been Footballer of the Year so far.. will be interesting to see how the cork backs deal with him? & Gaa HQ said it's going to be a sell out so 60,000 Dubs going?
He has but he he still doesn't have the consistent string of good performances in the championship his brother has. Bernard is far more gifted but at times isn't as consistent. Its tough as he's usually double marked these days. But by and large he's been brilliant this year.
u23's not many Ross.
Mc Auley is 23. You'd have to ask Pillar why that took so long
Nolan is 22
Mc Mahon is about 22.
O Carroll is 21
Thats it from the first 15.
Fitzsimons is 20/21 - he was full back on the Cuala U21 team who won the A championship this year.
McCauley did a year in Australia plus a few summers in the States while in college
Flynn, O'Gara, Brennan & Corkery all 24
Corkery is 27 smokey. O gara is 25 and 26 early nest year. Brennan is 24 alright.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 05, 2010, 10:51:36 PM
Quote from: heffo on August 05, 2010, 10:28:26 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 05, 2010, 10:09:43 PM
Quote from: ross4life on August 05, 2010, 10:02:30 PM
How many of the Dublin starting 15 v Tyrone are 23 or under it's seems like a very young looking team this year
IMO Bernard Brogan has been Footballer of the Year so far.. will be interesting to see how the cork backs deal with him? & Gaa HQ said it's going to be a sell out so 60,000 Dubs going?
He has but he he still doesn't have the consistent string of good performances in the championship his brother has. Bernard is far more gifted but at times isn't as consistent. Its tough as he's usually double marked these days. But by and large he's been brilliant this year.
u23's not many Ross.
Mc Auley is 23. You'd have to ask Pillar why that took so long
Nolan is 22
Mc Mahon is about 22.
O Carroll is 21
Thats it from the first 15.
Fitzsimons is 20/21 - he was full back on the Cuala U21 team who won the A championship this year.
McCauley did a year in Australia plus a few summers in the States while in college
Flynn, O'Gara, Brennan & Corkery all 24
Corkery is 27 smokey. O gara is 25 and 26 early nest year. Brennan is 24 alright.
Didn't think Corkery was that old but will take your word for it!
O'Gara is definitely 24
Cork if they stand up and actually play should win it in the end, but I'd be worried if they keep up the current form. Hopefully there will be no Dub fans with the whistles in the crowd, cost Tyrone a goal chance or two, really bad form.
It's a very raw Dublin team, they've done well to get this far, if Cork continue to play the way they have been than Dublin have a decent chance, but hopefully the real Cork will turn up.
Quote from: Reillers on August 05, 2010, 11:08:56 PM
Cork if they stand up and actually play should win it in the end, but I'd be worried if they keep up the current form. Hopefully there will be no Dub fans with the whistles in the crowd, cost Tyrone a goal chance or two, really bad form.
It's a very raw Dublin team, they've done well to get this far, if Cork continue to play the way they have been than Dublin have a decent chance, but hopefully the real Cork will turn up.u
I was playing golf with an erstwhile clubmate of yours two weeks ago ....he was telling me some stories...
Canty out is a loss but not as much as people are saying. His form isn't great compared to last year.
Shields - B Brogan
Cadogan - O gara
Miskella - A Brogan
Could be how they line up. Dubs play 5 forwards so B Brogan can be double marked.
Shields would be roasted by Brogan so I can't see that one happening. Cadogan would be the best bet IMO but Brogan is unmarkable at the moment so 2 or 3 lads should assigned to him.
Quote from: Chris agus Snoop on August 06, 2010, 12:00:07 PM
Canty out is a loss but not as much as people are saying. His form isn't great compared to last year.
Shields - B Brogan
Cadogan - O gara
Miskella - A Brogan
Could be how they line up. Dubs play 5 forwards so B Brogan can be double marked.
Amazing how Canty had to get moved onto Gooch to cover him when in trouble against Kerry, how he had to take Shields place against Shine because he was in trouble. Would you say that Miskella is a close enough marker to mark A Brogan??
Imagine Brogan one on one against Shields in front of the goal, that would be heaven for Dublin...
Quote from: Zulu on August 06, 2010, 01:43:20 PM
Shields would be roasted by Brogan so I can't see that one happening. Cadogan would be the best bet IMO but Brogan is unmarkable at the moment so 2 or 3 lads should assigned to him.
Shields was the All-star FB last year & was outstanding at fb in Corks All ireland under 21 win in 2007... He's only troubled when the forward he marks is taller than him
Shields v B Brogan will be worth the admission fee alone
Quote from: ross4life on August 06, 2010, 04:43:44 PM
Quote from: Zulu on August 06, 2010, 01:43:20 PM
Shields would be roasted by Brogan so I can't see that one happening. Cadogan would be the best bet IMO but Brogan is unmarkable at the moment so 2 or 3 lads should assigned to him.
Shields was the All-star FB last year & was outstanding at fb in Corks All ireland under 21 win in 2007... He's only troubled when the forward he marks is taller than him
Actually Meehan took him to the cleaners during the league but that's Meehan who is probably up there with the likes of Brogan when he's fully fit. Most full-forwards aren't as good as those two. I agree with Zulu though in that I don't think Shields is as good as advertised as a full-back. Not that it makes him a bad player.
Quote from: ross4life on August 06, 2010, 04:43:44 PM
Quote from: Zulu on August 06, 2010, 01:43:20 PM
Shields would be roasted by Brogan so I can't see that one happening. Cadogan would be the best bet IMO but Brogan is unmarkable at the moment so 2 or 3 lads should assigned to him.
Shields was the All-star FB last year & was outstanding at fb in Corks All ireland under 21 win in 2007... He's only troubled when the forward he marks is taller than him
Shields v B Brogan will be worth the admission fee alone
Shields is a fine wing back or maybe center back but he is no full back and would be in trouble against any top FF, which BB most certainly is.
Certainly doesn't make him a bad player as on his day Meehan is one of the best forward's in the Game
Shields 2010 Championship stats
1st game, at CHB he marked Declan O'Sullivan Scored 0-0
2nd game,at CHB he marked Declan O'Sullivan Scored 0-2
3rd game, at FB he marked S Johnston scored 0-1(a free)
4th game, at FB he marked M Forde scored 0-1
5th game, at FB he marked I Ryan scored 0-1 (a free)
6th game at FB he marked D Shine in 1st half Scored 0-3 & 2nd half at CHB he marked D O'Gara scored 0-0
So pretty impressive stats but with Canty out they won't have the option of swapping places this time
In fairness R4L you can't judge Shields on those games as Cavan were awful and the weather was terrible agianst Wexford, who only got 5 points so Shields man got 20% of their scores. He is a fine footballer but he isn't a top quality FB IMO.
Cork will have to betray footballing ability to match their undoubted athleticism soon, or they'll be consigned to history as "the best All-Ireland winners we never had", much like their countyman Micheál Martin now has the unfortunate moniker of the "best Taoiseach we never had".
I'm not convinced, far from it actually. It's true that teams are overawed at times by the sheer power of their running, and strength of their fielding. But that's not footballing skill per se, and if opposition footballers aren't cowed by that, they've every chance, provided of course that they themselves have the footballing wherewithal. Dublin might just have that.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 06, 2010, 10:22:48 PM
Cork will have to betray footballing ability to match their undoubted athleticism soon, or they'll be consigned to history as "the best All-Ireland winners we never had", much like their countyman Micheál Martin now has the unfortunate moniker of the "best Taoiseach we never had".
I'm not convinced, far from it actually. It's true that teams are overawed at times by the sheer power of their running, and strength of their fielding. But that's not footballing skill per se, and if opposition footballers aren't cowed by that, they've every chance, provided of course that they themselves have the footballing wherewithal. Dublin might just have that.
....a Tyroneman claiming the moral high ground on the aesthetics of Gaelic football...I've heard it all now ::)
ffs...you have driven a stake into the heart of midfield play and you have just broken the record for short kick outs (...and lost !) ....yet you have the cheek to moralize on skill >:(...................you, sir, have no right to comment on what is considered a "skill" in a Gaelic football.
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on August 07, 2010, 06:31:17 AM
....a Tyroneman claiming the moral high ground on the aesthetics of Gaelic football...I've heard it all now ::)
ffs...you have driven a stake into the heart of midfield play and you have just broken the record for short kick outs (...and lost !) ....yet you have the cheek to moralize on skill >:(...................you, sir, have no right to comment on what is considered a "skill" in a Gaelic football.
A Kerryman lecturing about skill in regard to a Tyrone team that have won AI Minor, 2 AI U21s, and 3 AI Seniors.
You sir, have outdone even your own arrogance and ignorance on that one (closet Cork git ;) ).
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 06, 2010, 10:22:48 PM
Cork will have to betray footballing ability to match their undoubted athleticism soon, or they'll be consigned to history as "the best All-Ireland winners we never had", much like their countyman Micheál Martin now has the unfortunate moniker of the "best Taoiseach we never had".
I'm not convinced, far from it actually. It's true that teams are overawed at times by the sheer power of their running, and strength of their fielding. But that's not footballing skill per se, and if opposition footballers aren't cowed by that, they've every chance, provided of course that they themselves have the footballing wherewithal. Dublin might just have that.
We're in danger of losing the run of ourselves at the moment. We've never had any middle ground unfortunately. Last Saturday was great but Tyrone undoubtedly contributed heavily to their own demise. In Dublin I'm afraid that is being glossed over. There are still some very average footballers starting for Dublin at present. Great lads - don't get me wrong but somehow we will need a bit of class to beat Cork outside the Brogans. For me we don't have enough at present. At the end of the day the current Tyrone team as a unit is past its best.
Cork are due a big game. Watched that behind the scenes programme on Croker on Wednesday? Anyone see the paiin on the Cork players faces having lost the all-ireland. I know myself what thats like. If that doesn't motivate them now with Kerry and Tyrone out-nothing will. I just fear Cork are going to unleash the dogs of war in 2 weeks.
They have far greater skill then people are giving them credit for. The only mistake I really see Cork making at present is that they aren't getting the right guys shooting. With all respects to Kissane, O Connor etc they shouldn't be shooting with the weak foot from the wrong side of the pitch. I'd expect Cork to rectify that in the 3 weeks.
I think this is a really tough game in 2 weeks and we're right up against it. Some of our fans are sleepwalking on this one. There is zero respect being shown in Dublin for Cork by large sections. You don't have to like someone to respect them as footballers.
Quote from: ross4life on August 06, 2010, 05:16:39 PM
Certainly doesn't make him a bad player as on his day Meehan is one of the best forward's in the Game
Shields 2010 Championship stats
1st game, at CHB he marked Declan O'Sullivan Scored 0-0
2nd game,at CHB he marked Declan O'Sullivan Scored 0-2
3rd game, at FB he marked S Johnston scored 0-1(a free)
4th game, at FB he marked M Forde scored 0-1
5th game, at FB he marked I Ryan scored 0-1 (a free)
6th game at FB he marked D Shine in 1st half Scored 0-3 & 2nd half at CHB he marked D O'Gara scored 0-0
So pretty impressive stats but with Canty out they won't have the option of swapping places this time
B Brogan roasted him in the league.
Also scoring stats are a cop out for any defender. If I'm a back and my man doesn't score and he has 6 assissts or I give away 6 frees are you telling me that I've has played well? Cmon on.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 07, 2010, 10:33:52 AM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 06, 2010, 10:22:48 PM
Cork will have to betray footballing ability to match their undoubted athleticism soon, or they'll be consigned to history as "the best All-Ireland winners we never had", much like their countyman Micheál Martin now has the unfortunate moniker of the "best Taoiseach we never had".
I'm not convinced, far from it actually. It's true that teams are overawed at times by the sheer power of their running, and strength of their fielding. But that's not footballing skill per se, and if opposition footballers aren't cowed by that, they've every chance, provided of course that they themselves have the footballing wherewithal. Dublin might just have that.
We're in danger of losing the run of ourselves at the moment. We've never had any middle ground unfortunately. Last Saturday was great but Tyrone undoubtedly contributed heavily to their own demise. In Dublin I'm afraid that is being glossed over. There are still some very average footballers starting for Dublin at present. Great lads - don't get me wrong but somehow we will need a bit of class to beat Cork outside the Brogans. For me we don't have enough at present. At the end of the day the current Tyrone team as a unit is past its best.
Cork are due a big game. Watched that behind the scenes programme on Croker on Wednesday? Anyone see the paiin on the Cork players faces having lost the all-ireland. I know myself what thats like. If that doesn't motivate them now with Kerry and Tyrone out-nothing will. I just fear Cork are going to unleash the dogs of war in 2 weeks.
They have far greater skill then people are giving them credit for. The only mistake I really see Cork making at present is that they aren't getting the right guys shooting. With all respects to Kissane, O Connor etc they shouldn't be shooting with the weak foot from the wrong side of the pitch. I'd expect Cork to rectify that in the 3 weeks.
I think this is a really tough game in 2 weeks and we're right up against it. Some of our fans are sleepwalking on this one. There is zero respect being shown in Dublin for Cork by large sections. You don't have to like someone to respect them as footballers.
How many semi finals in a row for this Cork team? Six?
How many finals in how many years?
Limited enough Dublin team in some respects in year one of development, with a lot of inexperience...great to get here but Cork are the superior team that have the potential to destroy us from half back up - that they haven't shown the form this year is our only hope..
Quote from: heffo on August 07, 2010, 11:20:27 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 07, 2010, 10:33:52 AM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 06, 2010, 10:22:48 PM
Cork will have to betray footballing ability to match their undoubted athleticism soon, or they'll be consigned to history as "the best All-Ireland winners we never had", much like their countyman Micheál Martin now has the unfortunate moniker of the "best Taoiseach we never had".
I'm not convinced, far from it actually. It's true that teams are overawed at times by the sheer power of their running, and strength of their fielding. But that's not footballing skill per se, and if opposition footballers aren't cowed by that, they've every chance, provided of course that they themselves have the footballing wherewithal. Dublin might just have that.
We're in danger of losing the run of ourselves at the moment. We've never had any middle ground unfortunately. Last Saturday was great but Tyrone undoubtedly contributed heavily to their own demise. In Dublin I'm afraid that is being glossed over. There are still some very average footballers starting for Dublin at present. Great lads - don't get me wrong but somehow we will need a bit of class to beat Cork outside the Brogans. For me we don't have enough at present. At the end of the day the current Tyrone team as a unit is past its best.
Cork are due a big game. Watched that behind the scenes programme on Croker on Wednesday? Anyone see the paiin on the Cork players faces having lost the all-ireland. I know myself what thats like. If that doesn't motivate them now with Kerry and Tyrone out-nothing will. I just fear Cork are going to unleash the dogs of war in 2 weeks.
They have far greater skill then people are giving them credit for. The only mistake I really see Cork making at present is that they aren't getting the right guys shooting. With all respects to Kissane, O Connor etc they shouldn't be shooting with the weak foot from the wrong side of the pitch. I'd expect Cork to rectify that in the 3 weeks.
I think this is a really tough game in 2 weeks and we're right up against it. Some of our fans are sleepwalking on this one. There is zero respect being shown in Dublin for Cork by large sections. You don't have to like someone to respect them as footballers.
How many semi finals in a row for this Cork team? Six?
How many finals in how many years?
Limited enough Dublin team in some respects in year one of development, with a lot of inexperience...great to get here but Cork are the superior team that have the potential to destroy us from half back up - that they haven't shown the form this year is our only hope..
Thas the point really. Which Cork shows up. If its the one of the last 4 weeks then we have a great chance. Ifits the one that played Tyrone last year then it'll be a tough day.
Should also be pointed out that while Bernard's consistency has improved loads this year, he still doesnt play well in every game.
Have to laugh at some of the Dubs fans trying to play down there chances, the fact remains whenever Dublin make All Ireland semi final they expect to make the Final was the case in the recent semis in 02,06,07 & if the Dubs play like they did v Tyrone those expectations will be realized
It was Cadogan who marked Bernard in the league, didn't do too badly. Bernard gets ball by running into space onto the end of a 20-30 yd footpass rather than 50/50 ball, Cork will try to put pressure on the supply and cut down the space. Bernard probably has plaayer of the year sewed up even if Dubs lose with the form he is in,so Cork would be happy limiting him to 2-3 points per half.
Cadogan on O'gara because our other backs are too light for him they'd get blasted out of the way. He looks a bit like Tommy Walsh when soloing through like a train.
Quote from: Chris agus Snoop on August 08, 2010, 02:03:46 PM
It was Cadogan who marked Bernard in the league, didn't do too badly. Bernard gets ball by running into space onto the end of a 20-30 yd footpass rather than 50/50 ball, Cork will try to put pressure on the supply and cut down the space. Bernard probably has plaayer of the year sewed up even if Dubs lose with the form he is in,so Cork would be happy limiting him to 2-3 points per half.
Cadogan on O'gara because our other backs are too light for him they'd get blasted out of the way. He looks a bit like Tommy Walsh when soloing through like a train.
O Gara is still incredibly raw at this level. He's been giving a billing at the moment that I'm afraid is far higher then it should be. He does the same thing every time when he gets the ball. I know myself as a former back how I'd mark him. Just step across to his right- becasue he always goes right at the moment. He really needs the benefit of a full league campaign to bring him on. Championship is a very hard place to learn. And too much is being expected of him at the moment in my opinion.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 08, 2010, 02:42:09 PM
Quote from: Chris agus Snoop on August 08, 2010, 02:03:46 PM
It was Cadogan who marked Bernard in the league, didn't do too badly. Bernard gets ball by running into space onto the end of a 20-30 yd footpass rather than 50/50 ball, Cork will try to put pressure on the supply and cut down the space. Bernard probably has plaayer of the year sewed up even if Dubs lose with the form he is in,so Cork would be happy limiting him to 2-3 points per half.
Cadogan on O'gara because our other backs are too light for him they'd get blasted out of the way. He looks a bit like Tommy Walsh when soloing through like a train.
O Gara is still incredibly raw at this level. He's been giving a billing at the moment that I'm afraid is far higher then it should be. He does the same thing every time when he gets the ball. I know myself as a former back how I'd mark him. Just step across to his right- becasue he always goes right at the moment. He really needs the benefit of a full league campaign to bring him on. Championship is a very hard place to learn. And too much is being expected of him at the moment in my opinion.
Well I expect him to make a ballix of it everytime he gets the ball!!
Though for the first time I think he's worth his place. He's a handful in fairness, and you can't argue with his finishes (for his 2nd and 3rd goals anyway)
Quote from: INDIANA on August 08, 2010, 02:42:09 PM
Quote from: Chris agus Snoop on August 08, 2010, 02:03:46 PM
It was Cadogan who marked Bernard in the league, didn't do too badly. Bernard gets ball by running into space onto the end of a 20-30 yd footpass rather than 50/50 ball, Cork will try to put pressure on the supply and cut down the space. Bernard probably has plaayer of the year sewed up even if Dubs lose with the form he is in,so Cork would be happy limiting him to 2-3 points per half.
Cadogan on O'gara because our other backs are too light for him they'd get blasted out of the way. He looks a bit like Tommy Walsh when soloing through like a train.
O Gara is still incredibly raw at this level. He's been giving a billing at the moment that I'm afraid is far higher then it should be. He does the same thing every time when he gets the ball. I know myself as a former back how I'd mark him. Just step across to his right- becasue he always goes right at the moment. He really needs the benefit of a full league campaign to bring him on. Championship is a very hard place to learn. And too much is being expected of him at the moment in my opinion.
What billing is he getting? Someone who works hard, makes a contest for all balls and wins tough balls, tackles and hits the opposition at all times and kicks the off goal. His power and pace are what make him difficult and I can see him just stepping left on someone and going right through.
Tough luck on Darren Magee, breaking his leg in a club game for the Crokes last night.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 12, 2010, 06:35:33 PM
Tough luck on Darren Magee, breaking his leg in a club game for the Crokes last night.
The fella can't buy a break - he had an operation this morning - pins and plates inserted - speedy recovery Darren.
hard luck on Darren magee alright. Decent footballer and could have been even better if used when he was playing well and young (therefore mouldable) alongside Whelan.
Still after all the criticism this season, it looks like Dublin will not get a better chance to win the AI.
Cork have not played at all and imo are unlikely to suddenly find form.
Kildare/Down in the other game are two form teams that wont beat Dublin and their defensive strength.
Yes Dublin rely heavily on Bernard Brogan, but with Alan B starting to show some form and with Bryan Cullen proving his worth as a dynamic and scoring HF, (imo Flynn is exactly the same and should start on the other wing), Mcconnell in the form of his life and with Fennel to replace him if he relapses and McCauley is the find of the year and rivals BBrogan and MClarke for POTY - I think Dublin will find that they are capable of SAM dispite most of us writing them and gilroy off months ago.
I stil think Dublin could be improved by a few changes in personnel, but theyare playing well as a team to a system that is working. BBrogan could be held again but he is starting to get support from others in scoring stakes now.
The Hill goes mental...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9xVcFnqR7A (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9xVcFnqR7A)
Nick Murphy and Walsh both injury doubts after the weekend. It will hurt Corks chances if they don't recover, Dubs could rule iin midfield.
Haven't been on the board for a while and am amazed there is only 5 pages on this big game
There must not be many Dubs or Corkonians who use the site at all
Am looking forward to this game and seeing the whole minor match for a change
I'll have to shout for the Dubs now that Tyrone have gone and with a family relation playing for the Dubs.
Dubs might not like this :-\
http://www.peoplesrepublicofcork.com/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1017 (http://www.peoplesrepublicofcork.com/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1017)
Tough one to call this,
On the one hand the Dubs are flying high, playing some great stuff, Brogan in the form is virtually unstoppable, and has an excellent partnership with O Gara.
Whilst Cork on the other hand have got to an AI Semi-final without playing well, however they have the physicality with each of their forwards towering over 6ft. I havent seen much of Cork this year, but i did see them against Lemrick were they were awful and agaisnt the Rossies where they diddnt get out of Second gear.
Cork have some top class forwards and a strong backline lead by Canty( who has not had a great championchip to date)
But after being at the Dublin Tyrone game, the Dublin defending and hunger is unbelievable and i expect to see them in the All Ireland final
All-Ireland Semi final Cork v Dublin Preview by Roscommon's Donal Shine
Sundays clash between Cork and Dublin promises to be one of the most interesting games of the year.
Preview
Both sides possess players with the ability to put in match winning performances and if both teams perform to their capabilities it has the potential to be a classic. It's unusual for two teams to have such strength and depth in crucial positions. We've already seen both Dublin and Cork bring on household names in previous games. In some instances, it could be argued that they finished with stronger teams than initially took the field, bearing this in mind Pat Gilroy and Conor Counihan have huge roles to play in Sunday's tie.
Cork Strengths and weaknesses:
Cork have probably the strong panel in the game. Its not often you see teams that can afford to leave the likes of Nicholas Murphy, Donnacha O' Connor and John Miskella on the bench.
It's hard to find any major weaknesses with this Cork team. Their main problems this year have come on front of goal. In most games their finishing hasn't been clinical and this will need to improve if there to progress on Sunday.
Dublin Strengths and Weaknesses:
Up front Dublin possess real quality.....
Rest of article on
http://www.sportsnewsireland.com/2010/08/18/all-ireland-semi-final-preview-cork-v-dublin-by-roscommons-donal-shine/
i'm looking forward to the game...
i shall be suportin tyrone minors (obv) and cork in the senior..
hope there is a bit of craic in the city on sat nite!
I've a mate who is selling two Lower Cusack Stand tickets for Sunday's games, at face value. If anyone is interested, drop me an PM.
From the Irish Times:
GAA: Cian O'Sullivan has been restored to the Dublin side ahead on Sunday's All-Ireland football semi-final against Cork. The Kilmacud Crokes defender comes into the half back line in place of Barry Cahill for the match at Croke Park.
O'Sullivan had missed most of the summer through a hamstring injury but has been passed fit and is brought into the side as manager Pat Gilroy seeks to help stem Cork's big threat at centre forward, Pearse O'Neill.
Elsewhere, it's a case of as you were with Gilroy keeping faith with the personnel that overcame Tyrone earlier this month. Paul Flynn had been touted as a possible starter up front, with David Henry's place seemingly under pressure. But Gilroy has retained the services of his team captain, leaving Flynn to settle for a place on the bench.
Cork manager Conor Counihan is due to name his side later today.
Dublin: S Cluxton; M Fitzsimons, R O'Carroll, P McMahon; K Nolan, G Brennan, C O'Sullivan; R McConnell, MD MaCauley; N Corkery, A Brogan, B Cullen; D Henry, E O'Gara, B Brogan
QuoteGAA: Cian O’Sullivan has been restored to the Dublin side ahead on Sunday’s All-Ireland football semi-final against Cork. The Kilmacud Crokes defender comes into the half back line in place of Barry Cahill for the match at Croke Park.
O’Sullivan had missed most of the summer through a hamstring injury but has been passed fit and is brought into the side as manager Pat Gilroy seeks to help stem Cork’s big threat at centre forward, Pearse O’Neill.
Elsewhere, it’s a case of as you were with Gilroy keeping faith with the personnel that overcame Tyrone earlier this month. Paul Flynn had been touted as a possible starter up front, with David Henry’s place seemingly under pressure. But Gilroy has retained the services of his team captain, leaving Flynn to settle for a place on the bench.
Cork manager Conor Counihan is due to name his side later today.
You could write a team announcement for the Irish Times (or any other paper, really) by just copying and pasting the team sheet and starting up the random cliche generator.
Dublin
supremo Pat Gilroy has r
esisted the urge to
ring the changes as his team selection for Sunday's
eagerly awaited semi-final against Cork at
headquarters shows just one change from the side that overcame
Ulster kingpins Tyrone in a
pulsating quarter-final. Kilmacud Crokes half back Cian O’Sullivan
returns from injury at
the expense of the
long serving Barry Cahill.
Meanwhile, the
unveiling of the
Leesiders' selection is expected later today.
Can anyone beat 13 in a paragraph?
Does 'shows no/just one/two/several changes from the side that beat/lost to insert team here the last day out' count?
I'd say so.
Very underwhelming atmosphere here in Dublin prior to game. Minimal outward signs of support for team......................memories of 2008/2009 humiliations still very raw imo.Despite the 2010 wins most fans I speak to are very wary of Sunday and really hoping we don't get hammered again.
Still think that the Dublin team needs 2 new lads in forwards, while O'Sullivan's addition to backs was always on cards.A real class act imo.
However, I defer to Gilroy's team selection and accept that the starting 15 deserve the chance again.
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 19, 2010, 02:22:18 PM
Does 'shows no/just one/two/several changes from the side that beat/lost to insert team here the last day out' count?
I'd allow that, yes.
Yes very muted build up here in Dublin.
Its like they've become the Fearful lads overnight with most terrified to even think of talking up their chances just in case they fall flat on their faces.
They still have my office decorated with Dub v Tyrone pics but they seem to not want to build it up in case I come knocking on their door.
I'm totally behind them now and would like to see a Dublin v Down final and not sure who I'd want to win that though.
If Dublin work as hard as the last day and take their scores and cut out some of the silly wides they have a chance.
Then again if Cork finally click into gear they could would this pulling up as Tyrone should have won had they not kicked 18 wides and hit the crossbar. I'm only teasing lads. Dont take the bait.
Quote from: Hardy on August 19, 2010, 12:37:10 PM
Dublin supremo Pat Gilroy has resisted the urge to ring the changes as his team selection for Sunday's eagerly awaited semi-final against Cork at headquarters shows just one change from the side that overcame Ulster kingpins Tyrone in a pulsating quarter-final. Kilmacud Crokes half back Cian O'Sullivan returns from injury at the expense of the long serving Barry Cahill. Meanwhile, the unveiling of the Leesiders' selection is expected later today.
Can anyone beat 13 in a paragraph?
After Dublin's
gilt-edged performance and
demolition of
double-Ulster Champions Tyrone,
blossoming Dublin manager Pat Gilroy is
understandably reluctant to
swing the axe on
his charges, with the
solitary switching of the
promising and
fully recovered half-back Cian O'Sullivan in for the
veteran Barry Cahill, a
stalwart of
recent years. The
Rebels, on
the other hand, will
reveal all later on this evening.
17 anyone? (if you can tolerate the nausea ;) )
Provisional leader on 17 - Fear ón Srath Bán, subject to review of the eligibility of one of his cliches - "recovered".
Late rule modification - paragraph limit is 80 words.
Fair enough Hardy, now it's further clichéd as a 'fully recovered' ;)
'Tis only 16 though.
And not even one mention of anyone 'stepping up to the plate' at all.
From the Irish Times (and both Canty and Sheehan are still doubtful):
Canty, Sheehan named in Cork line-up
GAA: Graham Canty and Ciaran Sheehan have both been named in the Cork line-up ahead of Sunday's SFC All-Ireland semi-final against Dublin at Croke Park.
Although the pair were named for Sunday's game manager Conor Counihan remained cautious and suggested there could still be changes.
Canty has been in a race to be fit after he tore a hamstring during the Rebels' quarter-final win over Roscommon, while Sheehan picked a knee injury in the same game.
Cork (SF v Dublin): A Quirke; R Carey, M Shields, J Miskella; N O'Leary, G Canty (captain), P Kissane; A O'Connor, A Walsh; P Kerrigan, P O'Neill, P Kelly; D Goulding, C Sheehan, D O'Connor
That team won't start IMO, Canty is out afaik so I'd expect Cadogan to come in to the FB line and Miskella to go out to the HB line. Sheehan is ok though and will start but I'd have him wing forward at Kerrigan's expense and put Colm O'Neill in FF. Looking forward to this immensely.
A bit of chit chat about the game here http://www.roundthesquare.ie/
I would imagine all neutrals will be supporting the Dubs against the Stalinist Republic of Cork, definitely the Croker Accountants will be. As a fair minded man, i will be supporting the better team, Come on the Dubs, looking forward to meeting and beating youse in September
I'd love to see the Dubs win Sam and I hope they do themselves and their fans proud this Sunday but after all my prattling on about the rebels, it's going on 3 years now I reckon, I'll have to roar on the langers!
Jaysus if they choke this weekend I'll be a quite boy for a while.
Dublin V Cork 1983, brilliant atmosphere and a brilliant game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orOGlD7i31A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60xyj1JlWKs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B53OGM1hPzI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAJ9hm4mvBc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYY7ATzbN5k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pViMln4J5LQ
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 19, 2010, 09:28:26 PM
From the Irish Times (and both Canty and Sheehan are still doubtful):
Canty, Sheehan named in Cork line-up
GAA: Graham Canty and Ciaran Sheehan have both been named in the Cork line-up ahead of Sunday's SFC All-Ireland semi-final against Dublin at Croke Park.
Although the pair were named for Sunday's game manager Conor Counihan remained cautious and suggested there could still be changes.
Canty has been in a race to be fit after he tore a hamstring during the Rebels' quarter-final win over Roscommon, while Sheehan picked a knee injury in the same game.
Cork (SF v Dublin): A Quirke; R Carey, M Shields, J Miskella; N O'Leary, G Canty (captain), P Kissane; A O'Connor, A Walsh; P Kerrigan, P O'Neill, P Kelly; D Goulding, C Sheehan, D O'Connor
Using Nicholas Murphy as a impact sub again i see 8) if this is the starting team it's a lot stronger 15 than Dublin's but it's all about the performance on the day
Hopefully it's a good game & may the best team win
have to fancy Dublin for this. Cork have no continuity going into the match and barely scraped over some half decent sides. On paper Cork have the best panel in the country, but the game isnt played on paper.
Interestingly Cork have named four half backs in their defence, so one of them will either follow Henry out the field or will sweep up around the halfback line - possibly behind it - lke Dublin are deploying Henry to do.
I know a lot of people rate young O'Sullivan but he (and the other young wing half back) are not as good or as experienced as Cahill who I would start. I know I am biased but when it comes to a big game, with three similar players, youd think you would go with the one that has been tried, tested and has a great rep for playing well in the big games.
Saying that I think the Dublin side could be augmented further by switching Cahill with Henry.
If cork find form, they could win this and the AI.
I suspect that they will still not find the 'on' switch and their season will end on Sunday.
Hopefully will be a good game, but as its an AI semi final and weather will be wet, it will be a real championship encounter and will hardly be showreel football. Wont matter to real football fans ! looking forward to it!
A bit of fun here from the Kilmacud Summer Camp - 180 kids and they 'banned' Cork jerseys this week, except one young Rebelette still wore her red and white - http://www.youtube.com/user/Hill16Dubs//
I think it will be a great game but Deegan likes to be the centre of attention his over fussy refing could ruin the spectacle.
Dublin wil play an extra man in defence I wonder will we see many short kickouts like the Tyrone game? I expect Cork to dominate midfield.
can`t believe the hill is still not sold out for this game
the credit crunch and price of tickets is really hitting home
Brolly hates Corks says selector
Cork camp ignore Brolly, insists selector
By Fintan O'Toole
Friday, August 20, 2010
CORK selector Ger O'Sullivan insists their camp is not concerned with the criticism by Sunday Game pundit Joe Brolly of their championship displays this summer and claims that Brolly's dislike of Cork influences his views on the football they produce.
a d v e r t i s e m e n t
"As long as I remember Joe has been criticising Cork football and teams. But they're paid for criticising people and paid for being controversial.
"I think Joe has just taken a dislike to Cork regardless of who we play.
"It was interesting when Kerry played Limerick in the Munster final and scraped over the line, it was how that Limerick played very well with Joe. But when we played Limerick and scraped over the line, it was how Cork played very poorly with Joe.
"But a lot of people now don't take much notice of Joe. You'll see that this Cork team will be there a lot longer than Joe."
This story appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Friday, August 20, 2010
ah the good old Dublin hype-fest is in full swing again after a good win and so many normally sound thinking gaels have bought into it again...there is not a snowballs chance in hell of Dublin winning on Sunday, none. Cork havent played anywhere near their potential yet and, are bigger, stronger and more skillful than the Dubs. Cork are gonna give someone a good hiding before the end of the championship
Cork will begin to peak on Sunday, will win by @ least 5 and will bulldoze whoever they meet in the final...mark my words ;)
Quote from: J OGorman on August 20, 2010, 02:59:00 PM
ah the good old Dublin hype-fest is in full swing again after a good win and so many normally sound thinking gaels have bought into it again...there is not a snowballs chance in hell of Dublin winning on Sunday, none.
Is it?
It's quiet as a doormouse up here & I've to hear a single person from Dublin with high expectations about Sunday..
I'm not experiencing too much hype either, but I only live in Dublin mind and only read newspapaers printed in Dublin.
The Dubs in fairness have done really well this year and Cork are not exactly pulling anyone up by the roots. That all said, I think Cork have the winning of this. They just have more better players with experience. The battle for possesion will tell a lot. I think that the Dublin FF line could do more damage than the Cork on but that they will not see as much possesion. If Dublin can get sway in the middle, particulalry early on and get scores ahead, then they have a real chance. I think though that Cork just have more firepower in that middle third to dominate the ball and thus create enough chances to eek out the win. Don't think it will be high scoring, don't think it wil be pretty and don't think that we will be talking in glowing terms about either side aftre but someone has to win. I think it will be Cork and impressive or not, they will be where they want to be, with more to give.
Quote from: J OGorman on August 20, 2010, 02:59:00 PM
ah the good old Dublin hype-fest is in full swing again after a good win and so many normally sound thinking gaels have bought into it again...there is not a snowballs chance in hell of Dublin winning on Sunday, none. Cork havent played anywhere near their potential yet and, are bigger, stronger and more skillful than the Dubs. Cork are gonna give someone a good hiding before the end of the championship
Cork will begin to peak on Sunday, will win by @ least 5 and will bulldoze whoever they meet in the final...mark my words ;)
You really haven't a clue.
Without repeating my previous take on Sunday, if Cork play to their potential then they will win - how comfortable that win will be depends on how open a game it is and how clean ball they win at midfield.
Overall I'm much happier than I was walking out of the Meath game and when they U21's come back and dry out from a summer on the piss in Boston we'll have some more options to add next year and I'd expect Gary Sweeney to be involved too, though we need to be careful with him.
Semi-finals are for winning and Dublin have a chance, but that chance depends on whether we're going to see the Cork from June -> August 2009/this years league or the Cork we've seen thus far in the championship.
heading up on sunday , looking forward to both matches and meeting a few of me auld jackeen mates. Hoping for a mayo dublin double
Quote from: Chris agus Snoop on August 20, 2010, 02:43:07 PM
Brolly hates Corks says selector
Cork camp ignore Brolly, insists selector
By Fintan O'Toole
Friday, August 20, 2010
CORK selector Ger O'Sullivan insists their camp is not concerned with the criticism by Sunday Game pundit Joe Brolly of their championship displays this summer and claims that Brolly's dislike of Cork influences his views on the football they produce.
a d v e r t i s e m e n t
"As long as I remember Joe has been criticising Cork football and teams. But they're paid for criticising people and paid for being controversial.
"I think Joe has just taken a dislike to Cork regardless of who we play.
"It was interesting when Kerry played Limerick in the Munster final and scraped over the line, it was how that Limerick played very well with Joe. But when we played Limerick and scraped over the line, it was how Cork played very poorly with Joe.
"But a lot of people now don't take much notice of Joe. You'll see that this Cork team will be there a lot longer than Joe."
This story appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Friday, August 20, 2010
Brolly makes no secret of it. He told Des Cahill on the radio last year that Cork make him sick with all the strikes and GPA stuff.
Quote from: J OGorman on August 20, 2010, 02:59:00 PM
ah the good old Dublin hype-fest is in full swing again after a good win and so many normally sound thinking gaels have bought into it again...there is not a snowballs chance in hell of Dublin winning on Sunday, none.
You couldn't be more wrong a chara, is that why you've deleted that particular post?
It worried me before the Tyrone game, all the unaccustomed Dublin mutedness (hence my pathetic attempt to rouse a bit of Jackeen hubris on the game's eve ;) ), and it should worry Cork a little now too.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 20, 2010, 11:14:49 PM
Quote from: J OGorman on August 20, 2010, 02:59:00 PM
ah the good old Dublin hype-fest is in full swing again after a good win and so many normally sound thinking gaels have bought into it again...there is not a snowballs chance in hell of Dublin winning on Sunday, none.
You couldn't be more wrong a chara, is that why you've deleted that particular post?
It worried me before the Tyrone game, all the unaccustomed Dublin mutedness (hence my pathetic attempt to rouse a bit of Jackeen hubris on the game's eve ;) ), and it should worry Cork a little now too.
afraid to dream after the last 2 years. Formidable Cork side. Very few players on the cork side I don't rate. Its in their hands. Depends on whether they can play like they did against tyrone last year.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 21, 2010, 12:35:42 AM
afraid to dream after the last 2 years. Formidable Cork side. Very few players on the cork side I don't rate. Its in their hands. Depends on whether they can play like they did against tyrone last year.
Don't agree Indiana. In the end, we probably weren't that far away (against Cork last year, when Cork were at the current peak of their powers). I have accepted now, though, that we were something of a team in decline even then (though we'd picked it up again this year, considerably).
I know where you're coming from, but I wouldn't be so dismissive of Dublin's power to determine their own destiny in this one.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 21, 2010, 12:42:47 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 21, 2010, 12:35:42 AM
afraid to dream after the last 2 years. Formidable Cork side. Very few players on the cork side I don't rate. Its in their hands. Depends on whether they can play like they did against tyrone last year.
Don't agree Indiana. In the end, we probably weren't that far away (against Cork last year, when Cork were at the current peak of their powers). I have accepted now, though, that we were something of a team in decline even then (though we'd picked it up again this year, considerably).
I know where you're coming from, but I wouldn't be so dismissive of Dublin's power to determine their own destiny in this one.
It takes a man to admit that, fair play to you FoSB. I know the feeling only too well, believe me
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 21, 2010, 12:42:47 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 21, 2010, 12:35:42 AM
afraid to dream after the last 2 years. Formidable Cork side. Very few players on the cork side I don't rate. Its in their hands. Depends on whether they can play like they did against tyrone last year.
Don't agree Indiana. In the end, we probably weren't that far away (against Cork last year, when Cork were at the current peak of their powers). I have accepted now, though, that we were something of a team in decline even then (though we'd picked it up again this year, considerably).
I know where you're coming from, but I wouldn't be so dismissive of Dublin's power to determine their own destiny in this one.
The system we use may not work so well against these teams. We are setup to beat Tyrone and Armagh. Cork are a different animal. Less skillful then tyrone in many areas. But built with phenomenal athleticism and pace and a lot of very good footballers. If they win midfield and launch the runners they have the upper body power tyrone lacked to break the tackle.
Lads like Kerrigan/ Goulding and O Neill are streaky players. Well capable of hitting 1-3 in 10 mins. We got an armchair ride of Tyrone at midfield which we won't get tomorrow.
Cork have to overcome their own demons tomorrow. thats the card Dublin need to focus. Put the doubt in Cork's mind and make the last 2 years come back to haunt them.
Its a massive massive day for this Dublin team tomorrow. Gilroy says its a year early for this team but I think the hunger shown tomorrow and fight in team is very important. If Cork get ahead and put Dublin under pressure and they lie down and take a hammering like the last 2 years then its back to square one for the team. After what has happened in recent years its important to see a really fired up Dublin team getting stuck into Cork and believing in themselves.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 21, 2010, 12:17:56 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 21, 2010, 12:42:47 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 21, 2010, 12:35:42 AM
afraid to dream after the last 2 years. Formidable Cork side. Very few players on the cork side I don't rate. Its in their hands. Depends on whether they can play like they did against tyrone last year.
Don't agree Indiana. In the end, we probably weren't that far away (against Cork last year, when Cork were at the current peak of their powers). I have accepted now, though, that we were something of a team in decline even then (though we'd picked it up again this year, considerably).
I know where you're coming from, but I wouldn't be so dismissive of Dublin's power to determine their own destiny in this one.
The system we use may not work so well against these teams. We are setup to beat Tyrone and Armagh. Cork are a different animal. Less skillful then tyrone in many areas. But built with phenomenal athleticism and pace and a lot of very good footballers. If they win midfield and launch the runners they have the upper body power tyrone lacked to break the tackle.
Lads like Kerrigan/ Goulding and O Neill are streaky players. Well capable of hitting 1-3 in 10 mins. We got an armchair ride of Tyrone at midfield which we won't get tomorrow.
Cork have to overcome their own demons tomorrow. thats the card Dublin need to focus. Put the doubt in Cork's mind and make the last 2 years come back to haunt them.
I doubt Cork are that much more physically powerful than Armagh and we were comfortably able to cope with them physically. The interesting thing will be if the Cork players fall over in contact like most teams have done against Dublin to win free kicks.
Cork have a worse scoring record than us this season even though we are supposed to be so defensive. It doesn't say much about their attackign powers...
Cork have put up decent scores haven't they? I don't think any football team is as defensive as some people like to make out. Teams now get more bodies behind the ball and do so in a more organised manner but when they have the ball they look to score. I'm expecting a full blooded, quality championship match tomorrow and if conditions are decent a fairly high scoring game.
Quote from: Zulu on August 21, 2010, 05:38:09 PM
Cork have put up decent scores haven't they? I don't think any football team is as defensive as some people like to make out. Teams now get more bodies behind the ball and do so in a more organised manner but when they have the ball they look to score. I'm expecting a full blooded, quality championship match tomorrow and if conditions are decent a fairly high scoring game.
Can't see it being high scoring Zulu. But Dublin aren't going to allow it. Or try to allow it. Whether they suceed or not is a different story.
If its high scoring we lose. End of story.
Quote from: Zulu on August 21, 2010, 05:38:09 PM
Cork have put up decent scores haven't they? I don't think any football team is as defensive as some people like to make out. Teams now get more bodies behind the ball and do so in a more organised manner but when they have the ball they look to score. I'm expecting a full blooded, quality championship match tomorrow and if conditions are decent a fairly high scoring game.
Cork avg 1-14 per game in 6 games while Dublin avg is 1-16 per game...
That's what I thought. Both teams have put up decent scores, though the quality of the opposition and extra time in some games has to be factored in. I would expect both teams to get 13 to 15 scores tomorrow if the weather is ok so a goal could be significant.
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on August 21, 2010, 07:01:04 PM
Quote from: Zulu on August 21, 2010, 05:38:09 PM
Cork have put up decent scores haven't they? I don't think any football team is as defensive as some people like to make out. Teams now get more bodies behind the ball and do so in a more organised manner but when they have the ball they look to score. I'm expecting a full blooded, quality championship match tomorrow and if conditions are decent a fairly high scoring game.
Cork avg 1-14 per game in 6 games while Dublin avg is 1-16 per game...
our average is distorted by playing extra time and bad opposition. As is Cork's. I mean who have Cork played? I don't believe either team is a high scoring team.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 21, 2010, 07:35:09 PM
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on August 21, 2010, 07:01:04 PM
Quote from: Zulu on August 21, 2010, 05:38:09 PM
Cork have put up decent scores haven't they? I don't think any football team is as defensive as some people like to make out. Teams now get more bodies behind the ball and do so in a more organised manner but when they have the ball they look to score. I'm expecting a full blooded, quality championship match tomorrow and if conditions are decent a fairly high scoring game.
Cork avg 1-14 per game in 6 games while Dublin avg is 1-16 per game...
our average is distorted by playing extra time and bad opposition. As is Cork's. I mean who have Cork played? I don't believe either team is a high scoring team.
So Cork playing extra time twice had no impact or playing the likes of Wexford/Cavan/Roscommon etc also doesn't count??
Cork Scored 1-29 in the games v Kerry (Kerry team that included O Se, Galvin) would Dublin do that?
If Cork play like they did v us in the last 20mins they will win... but if they play like they did in the 1st 50mins Dublin will win
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on August 21, 2010, 07:38:57 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 21, 2010, 07:35:09 PM
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on August 21, 2010, 07:01:04 PM
Quote from: Zulu on August 21, 2010, 05:38:09 PM
Cork have put up decent scores haven't they? I don't think any football team is as defensive as some people like to make out. Teams now get more bodies behind the ball and do so in a more organised manner but when they have the ball they look to score. I'm expecting a full blooded, quality championship match tomorrow and if conditions are decent a fairly high scoring game.
Cork avg 1-14 per game in 6 games while Dublin avg is 1-16 per game...
our average is distorted by playing extra time and bad opposition. As is Cork's. I mean who have Cork played? I don't believe either team is a high scoring team.
So Cork playing extra time twice had no impact or playing the likes of Wexford/Cavan/Roscommon etc also doesn't count??
take a deep breath and read my post. I'll highlight the relvent point in bold if that makes it easier for you.
Cork should be able to step up a bit and win this game. But if they do not, it could damage their prospects of ever winning Sam with this team. Dublin would regard a 2 point defeat as a basis for next year, but Cork have been bridesmaid for several years now and really need to close the deal.
Quote from: armaghniac on August 21, 2010, 08:22:17 PM
Cork should be able to step up a bit and win this game. But if they do not, it could damage their prospects of ever winning Sam with this team. Dublin would regard a 2 point defeat as a basis for next year, but Cork have been bridesmaid for several years now and really need to close the deal.
end of the road for soem cork players if they lose tomorrow. Its that big a game for Cork. There is no tomorrow for Cork as Rocky would say.
Not a chance lads. If Cork lose tomorrow they'll still be a candidate for the AI next year, they are a very young team by and large and have buckets of talented youngsters coming through. They won't lose any of the teams spine to retirement regardless of the result tomorrow, so I don't see how it would be the end. Cork are a better team and have a better squad and the result tomorrow won't affect that so going forward I'd expect Cork to be a stronger challenger than Dublin in the immediate future.
Quote from: Zulu on August 21, 2010, 08:51:13 PM
Not a chance lads. If Cork lose tomorrow they'll still be a candidate for the AI next year, they are a very young team by and large and have buckets of talented youngsters coming through. They won't lose any of the teams spine to retirement regardless of the result tomorrow, so I don't see how it would be the end. Cork are a better team and have a better squad and the result tomorrow won't affect that so going forward I'd expect Cork to be a stronger challenger than Dublin in the immediate future.
Zulu lads like Pearse O Neill, Canty, Murphy, Kissane etc will never get a better chance . If they blow this tomorrow I'm going to stick my neck on the line and say they will never win the big one.
Every team reaches a seminal moment in their development. This is Cork's tommorrow. None of the younger guys bar Ciaran Sheehan have really stepped up to the plate in a meaningful way at senior level on a consistent basis yet. Maybe tomorrow they will. But they'd want to start soon.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 21, 2010, 08:54:52 PM
Quote from: Zulu on August 21, 2010, 08:51:13 PM
Not a chance lads. If Cork lose tomorrow they'll still be a candidate for the AI next year, they are a very young team by and large and have buckets of talented youngsters coming through. They won't lose any of the teams spine to retirement regardless of the result tomorrow, so I don't see how it would be the end. Cork are a better team and have a better squad and the result tomorrow won't affect that so going forward I'd expect Cork to be a stronger challenger than Dublin in the immediate future.
Every team reaches a seminal moment in their development. This is Cork's tommorrow.
100% - if they cannot beat a Dublin team seven months into their development they can throw their hat at it
I agree that this year is a great chance for all four teams but I don't think Kerry or Tyrone will be much stronger than they are now next year so I would have Cork favourites for next year's AI whatever happens. And I think Cork can absorb any retirements that do occur and still remain strong, though I suppose this discussion is for another day.
On tomorrow's game, I can't make up my mind on how this will go. This is possibly because I don't know what Cork team will start tomorrow, I also presume Dublin will have something up their sleeve to free up room for Bernard Brogan or to take advantage of any double teaming Cork may try.
Cork have the better team but Dublin have a few of the championships form players, that might swing it for them. Looking forward to it immensely and I'll stike with Cork. The rebels by 2.
Quote100% - if they cannot beat a Dublin team seven months into their development they can throw their hat at it
It's two years heffo.
Quote from: Zulu on August 21, 2010, 09:34:31 PM
I agree that this year is a great chance for all four teams but I don't think Kerry or Tyrone will be much stronger than they are now next year so I would have Cork favourites for next year's AI whatever happens. And I think Cork can absorb any retirements that do occur and still remain strong, though I suppose this discussion is for another day.
On tomorrow's game, I can't make up my mind on how this will go. This is possibly because I don't know what Cork team will start tomorrow, I also presume Dublin will have something up their sleeve to free up room for Bernard Brogan or to take advantage of any double teaming Cork may try.
Cork have the better team but Dublin have a few of the championships form players, that might swing it for them. Looking forward to it immensely and I'll stike with Cork. The rebels by 2.
Quote100% - if they cannot beat a Dublin team seven months into their development they can throw their hat at it
It's two years heffo.
Can't agree Zulu - last year was still the swashbuckling team of 2005-2009 - check out the change of wholesale change of personnel & tactics
Yeah but last year was Gilroy giving those lads one last chance while allowing himself the opportunity to assess them up close. He would have been foolish to make wholesale changes to the team last year because he didn't have the replacements and the squad weren't that far off anyway. So last year was about Gilroy learning and understanding what needed to be done, this year was about putting the lessons learnt into practice. O'Carroll being one year older is the crucial factor in Dublin's progress, you now have a guy to build the rest of the defence around. Pillar was cursed as he didn't have that kind of player, if he had Dublin might have gone a bit further, and of course BB has been developing into the best forward in Ireland.
Quote from: heffo on August 21, 2010, 10:45:02 PM
Quote from: Zulu on August 21, 2010, 09:34:31 PM
I agree that this year is a great chance for all four teams but I don't think Kerry or Tyrone will be much stronger than they are now next year so I would have Cork favourites for next year's AI whatever happens. And I think Cork can absorb any retirements that do occur and still remain strong, though I suppose this discussion is for another day.
On tomorrow's game, I can't make up my mind on how this will go. This is possibly because I don't know what Cork team will start tomorrow, I also presume Dublin will have something up their sleeve to free up room for Bernard Brogan or to take advantage of any double teaming Cork may try.
Cork have the better team but Dublin have a few of the championships form players, that might swing it for them. Looking forward to it immensely and I'll stike with Cork. The rebels by 2.
Quote100% - if they cannot beat a Dublin team seven months into their development they can throw their hat at it
It's two years heffo.
Can't agree Zulu - last year was still the swashbuckling team of 2005-2009 - check out the change of wholesale change of personnel & tactics
:D
Dubs look nervous in the parade - Cork look focused...
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 22, 2010, 03:27:37 PM
Dubs look nervous in the parade - Cork look focused...
Not that focused there!! Corner back was nowhere. Great finish
Jesus it'll be a travesty if the Dubs win the All-Ireland. Some of the players Gilroy has brought in this year are absolutely useless.
Doing well so far today, though.
has anyone any links?
who's got a free stream for this? Outside of ROI and the Pale.
Dubs booing once again
I've claimed that Eoghan O'Gara is a donkey all summer. Proving me right so far today.
Prob get a hat-trick now.
Dreadful effort from O'Neill.
the dubs fans are blowing the whistle today again
Quote from: Cde on August 22, 2010, 03:45:27 PM
the dubs fans are blowing the whistle today again
Do any other county whistle or blow like the dubs? Hardly much call for it
live streams lads, come on. Where's the yanks when ya need them.
Can't believe I'm screaming for the Dubs! I feel dirty.
Dub fans blowing the whistle is pure actin the Cnut. Little wonder no-one likes them
I've heard that whistle in the crowd at least 3 times. It's got me almost stopping. What are the stewards at? If it was a Cork whistle they wouldn't be long weeding it out!
Kildare/Down won't fear either of these teams on this display
when the dubs get this far the soccer fans fill the hill with the booing and whistling
Cork kicking too many wides, Dublin have scored more in that 1st half than we did in 70mins v Cork :-\
There has to be a better option than O'Gara at 14, fair enough he can win ball but he's clueless when in possession and cant hit a barn door.
Another goal in Dublin, I'd bet. Even without it I reckon seven more points will win it for them.
Some show by Brogan.
Quote from: ross4life on August 22, 2010, 04:09:15 PM
Cork kicking too many wides, Dublin have scored more in that 1st half than we did in 70mins v Cork :-\
Then why are you saying that Down/Kildare have nothing to fear? Dublin deserve some credit and Brogan is giving as good a display today as I have seen in a while.
I still think Cork will win this . Brogan on fire .
Jaysus, if O'Gara gets an All-Ireland medal at FF what does it say about global warming? Eh?
Cork need to double up on Brogan, he really is making it look so easy..
This shows that the Tyrone wides were not a freak of nature. Magnificent pressure on the kicker.
Quote from: Bud Wiser on August 22, 2010, 04:13:24 PM
Quote from: ross4life on August 22, 2010, 04:09:15 PM
Cork kicking too many wides, Dublin have scored more in that 1st half than we did in 70mins v Cork :-\
Then why are you saying that Down/Kildare have nothing to fear? Dublin deserve some credit and Brogan is giving as good a display today as I have seen in a while.
Us scoring only 10 points v that cork backline in 70mins was poor i think Kildare/down would have plenty of joy if they manage to get past Dublin today?
Yes Credit to the Dubs there taking the scores
Spot on O'Neill.
Cork seem to be making every tactical mistake you can think of. They play to their weaknesses instead of their strengths.
Quote from: ONeill on August 22, 2010, 04:16:23 PM
Jaysus, if O'Gara gets an All-Ireland medal at FF what does it say about global warming? Eh?
Already got an AI medal (Junior I know) but he still scored the goal to knock Tyrone out ;D
Spillane was right about Cork putting their weakest defender man to man on Brogan, crazy thinking! Brogan a shoe in for POTY on this form, great to watch.
Quote from: Hardy on August 22, 2010, 04:20:18 PM
Spot on O'Neill.
Cork seem to be making every tactical mistake you can think of. They play to their weaknesses instead of their strengths.
Some bad misses by the Dubs though otherwise they'd be home and hosed.
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on August 22, 2010, 04:23:00 PM
Quote from: ONeill on August 22, 2010, 04:16:23 PM
Jaysus, if O'Gara gets an All-Ireland medal at FF what does it say about global warming? Eh?
Already got an AI medal (Junior I know) but he still scored the goal to knock Tyrone out ;D
Yep he did. And maybe will do the same to Cork. And it works for the Jacks. But the man has to be straight in front of the posts, about 10 yards out, no defender in sight, to score a point.
Quote from: ONeill on August 22, 2010, 04:26:55 PM
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on August 22, 2010, 04:23:00 PM
Quote from: ONeill on August 22, 2010, 04:16:23 PM
Jaysus, if O'Gara gets an All-Ireland medal at FF what does it say about global warming? Eh?
Already got an AI medal (Junior I know) but he still scored the goal to knock Tyrone out ;D
Yep he did. And maybe will do the same to Cork. And it works for the Jacks. But the man has to be straight in front of the posts, about 10 yards out, no defender in sight, to score a point.
I'm happy with him as a goal scoring forward though ;D
score?
It's awful to harp on it, but listening to Carney's spoofing would give you a headache.
1-09 to 0-08 47 mins
What have B. Brogan and O'Gara (and others?) got in their ears? Plugs?
Penalty for Cork.
Keaney should be on instead of OGara.
Bet he misses.
Goal.
1-10 to 1-09.
Dreadful game, Cork are painful to watch at the minute. Dublin are swarming around and leaving acres for the Brogans and O'Gara. O'Gara may not be the most talented but he wins a lot of ball and if he would simply give it straight away to Brogan then he would be much more effective.
McConnell could have been a bit more clever for the penalty, he should have simply stood his ground, he forced his way forward and pushed O'Neill over. Nice finish and hopefully this will pick the game up.
O'Gara some dung-bag. Referee inconsistent in his tolerance of pulling and dragging. Brutal tackling once more by Dublin-just conceded a penalty because of it. Commentators oblivious to these illegal attempts at tackles
Cork tactic seems to be to finish with their best team. Could that explain a lot and be the winning of it?
Quote from: Hardy on August 22, 2010, 04:48:00 PM
Cork tactic seems to be to finish with their best team. Could that explain a lot and be the winning of it?
Not sure if it is anything clever on Counihan's part, pretty well known he is not the most astute.
I am in work here and cannot see the match, on a 20 min break and bloody webcast is not working!!!FFFUUUCCCKKK!!!!!!!!
Id say the bean counters upstairs are hoping for a draw now.
Experience will count for a lot in the last ten.
1-12 to 1-10 61 mins
Dive of the season.
1-13 to 1-11.
Keaney's energy could be crucial for the Dubs to see this out.
Quote from: Hardy on August 22, 2010, 04:58:11 PM
Dive of the season.
1-13 to 1-11.
Like some of the Cork frees??
1-13 each, 68 mins.
What a stupid foul by Mcconnell. Gone.
McConnell off. Second yellow. Should have been off after the penalty anyway
What started as a fairly disciplined defence is now starting to slip a bit. Lack of experience stepping in now. That red card was coming sooner rather than later
Come on Cork lay into the dirty Dubs
Cork in front. 70 mins.
3 mins added
How stupid is McConnell seriously???
Cork's fitness and experience starting to show. Stupid foul, cork need to be clever now.
Dublin losing it all over the field. Indiscipline.
Dublins tackling has been ridiculous all day long.
Is that the first time cork have been in front? as long as they don't try and waste time they should be home and dry
2 up now.
take the lead for the 1st time as the clock hits 70 - great timing
Super score for Kavanagh. Dublin discipline has been shocking in last 10 minutes, nothing into their FF line worth talking about.
Over. Cork by 1.
Indiscipline and inexperience lost it for Dublin.
Big match experience.
Another get of jail card used by cork today, penalty turning point of that match
great to see the dubs gone
now they can take their whistles and boos and go back to to soccer match's
That was close !
Glad to see the whistle blowing boo boys gone
Lost on the sideline by Dubs. Waited too long to take off O'Gara for Keaney. As a matter of fact, Keaney should have been on from the start.
Quote from: tyronefan on August 22, 2010, 05:07:42 PM
great to see the dubs gone
now they can take their whistles and boos and go back to to soccer match's
Aye blame it on soccer ::)
Quote from: Hardy on August 22, 2010, 04:53:43 PM
Experience will count for a lot in the last ten.
1-12 to 1-10 61 mins
Thought the same myself early in the 2nd half, Cork on betfair at 2.58 was nice...
Big win for Cork mentally though, should go and on to win the All-Ireland..
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on August 03, 2010, 01:38:42 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 02, 2010, 01:43:21 PM
Anyways in most people eyes this is already the All-Ireland decider.
Cork's biggest strength, running at pace at players is probably Dublin's biggest defensive weakness as they concede an awful lot of fouls to this strong running, they've a lot work to do defensively so would probably favour Cork at the moment but very hard to call.
I'd say Cork forwards are big enough that they are unlikely to fall over as easily as other teams forwards have done in the tackle...
8)
Can't call it indiscipline when they have tackled like that consistently all through the championship. They just met a ref who (eventually) penalised it. Brogan great player.
As Joe said, no ref could have let those go. 1-3 conceded to frees in the last twelve mins.
Bernard Brogan sealed his player of the year crown there today. He is a hell of a player!
McConnell lost the head a bit in the second 1/2. He should have been taken off after he gave away the penalty. He was already on a yellow at that stage for a start and was diving in all over the place.
Quote from: Hardy on August 22, 2010, 05:11:54 PM
As Joe said, no ref could have let those go. 1-3 conceded to frees in the last twelve mins.
It was a Laois ref will be INDIANA's excuse
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on August 22, 2010, 05:04:52 PM
take the lead for the 1st time as the clock hits 70 - great timing
aye, timing was a joke, took nearly 1 1/2 mins to take that last free, also wasted another 40s at the start of injury time - why do referees consistently ignore time wasting like that?
QuoteBernard Brogan sealed his player of the year crown there today. He is a hell of a player!
Definitely no Cork player will get it but two big peformances from Doyle, Kavanagh, Coulter or Clarke will see them scope it I'd imagine..
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 22, 2010, 05:09:18 PM
Quote from: Hardy on August 22, 2010, 04:53:43 PM
Experience will count for a lot in the last ten.
1-12 to 1-10 61 mins
Thought the same myself early in the 2nd half, Cork on betfair at 2.58 was nice...
Big win for Cork mentally though, should go and on to win the All-Ireland..
Nice tactics writing off Kildare's chances.. i like it ;)
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 22, 2010, 05:09:18 PMCork on betfair at 2.58 was nice...
Well done, Dinny. I had Dublin backed at 2.96 before the off. Was looking good for a long time.
Kildare backed at 5.3 for Sam.
Aw dont be so hard on the Dubs. They have a few bad apples but I have seen a few tyrone "fans" bring shame on the county. Its tough on them but I respect the hill for clapping their team off at the end, how many other fans do that following defeats.
On the match, good to see Cork finally stand up to the pressure. Didnt really deserve all the abuse they get, Tyrone couldn't outwit that Dublin defence and its very organised.
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on August 22, 2010, 05:14:11 PM
Quote from: Hardy on August 22, 2010, 05:11:54 PM
As Joe said, no ref could have let those go. 1-3 conceded to frees in the last twelve mins.
It was a Laois ref will be INDIANA's excuse
Thought he was quite generous to Dublin if anything..
Quote from: Tony Baloney on August 22, 2010, 04:26:14 PM
Quote from: Hardy on August 22, 2010, 04:20:18 PM
Spot on O'Neill.
Cork seem to be making every tactical mistake you can think of. They play to their weaknesses instead of their strengths.
Some bad misses by the Dubs though otherwise they'd be home and hosed.
[/quote
Dubs ran out of steam . Cork kept at it . I think they will finish the job this time
Quote from: Bogball XV on August 22, 2010, 05:14:25 PM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on August 22, 2010, 05:04:52 PM
take the lead for the 1st time as the clock hits 70 - great timing
aye, timing was a joke, took nearly 1 1/2 mins to take that last free, also wasted another 40s at the start of injury time - why do referees consistently ignore time wasting like that?
Keeper throwing ball back over the bar after Dublin's last point to avoid taking a goal kick
Adrian Walsh sealed donkey of the yr, how that man gets on the cork team i dont know. There is no football in him.
No10 and No12 won the game for Cork, these two lads kept cork in when behind. There lines of runing and ball carrying skills where a honour to watch. There awareness to turn out of trouble just brlliant. Colm O Neill intro sealed the win.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 22, 2010, 05:16:04 PM
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on August 22, 2010, 05:14:11 PM
Quote from: Hardy on August 22, 2010, 05:11:54 PM
As Joe said, no ref could have let those go. 1-3 conceded to frees in the last twelve mins.
It was a Laois ref will be INDIANA's excuse
Thought he was quite generous to Dublin if anything..
Well I did as well to be honest,but they will need a excuse
What the f*** is a "goal kick"?
Quote from: Hardy on August 22, 2010, 05:15:24 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 22, 2010, 05:09:18 PMCork on betfair at 2.58 was nice...
Well done, Dinny. I had Dublin backed at 2.96 before the off. Was looking good for a long time.
Kildare backed at 5.3 for Sam.
I just thought as most alluded to that Dublin were too dependant on BB and as he tired Dublins scores dried up and having watch Cork against Ross knew they'd finish strong. Bud is right Keaney should have been introduced a lot earlier..
Did anyone watch the game online? I watched it on Setanta and it nearly wrecked my head with the pausing,stopping,refreshing etc.I'm just wondering if it was my computer or Setanta's fault.
Gortnaleck - I watched it in the States with high-speed internet with no problems - Maybe the speed of your internet connection was the problem
Tell me this lads my eyes must have been playing tricks on me but had B.Brogan an ear piece
Fair play to Cork...after all their heartache over the years they deserve an All-Ireland.
The future for Dublin is looking an awful lot brighter at the end of the season than it did at the start. Give all the guys who got the experience in their first year at this level another season or 2 and combine with guys like Griffen, Ross O'Carroll, Mark Davoren coming back from injury and guys like B Brogan getting better things are looking up...
Lads, did anyone else think Paddy Kellys point towards the end (after the quick free) looked wide?
Quote from: Jinxy on August 22, 2010, 05:40:43 PM
Lads, did anyone else think Paddy Kellys point towards the end (after the quick free) looked wide?
Was pretty sure it was but thought the umpires couldn't have got that wrong...
Quote from: Jinxy on August 22, 2010, 05:40:43 PM
Lads, did anyone else think Paddy Kellys point towards the end (after the quick free) looked wide?
thought that myself
First & foremost congrats to Cork!! Great comeback after it looked like they had played into Dublins hands & kicked themselves out of it!
Maurice Deegan definitely sided with the Dubs today......they were getting decisions Cork were getting pulled up for & like Tyrone they lived on the edge for a lot of the 70 mins.
Their tackling at times was foul after foul but Deegan seemed to let them away with it for most of the game.
Bernanrd Brogan was sensational & tore Cork to shreds but outside him they had nobody worth while in their forward line.
O'Gara was poor, Alan Brogan was very quiet & the wing forwards were very poor.
They continually crowded their own half with 12 players at times to force Cork into carrying the ball into the congested areas & with Deegan semmingly allowing their illegal tacking it resulted in a lot of turnover ball in the Dubs favour.
But saying that some of Corks decision making was terrible. Aidan Walsh was very poor as was Kissane, Alan O'Connor & Sheehan.
But the introduction of Colm O'Neill seemed to give them some belief.
The penalty decision was correct in my opinion as Dublin just had to keep O'Neill away from shooting ....whereas indiscipline left Deegan with little choice.
Finally small point on the Dubs support...thought it was very poor showing the constant jeering & goading of the Cork team throughout & as usual as soon as they went few in front they got carried away & celebrated like they were in the final already! No class at all......Im aware all teams have a few idiots who follow them....but Dubs seem to enjoy being arrogant & booing, taking the mickey & overall acting the eejits when they are in front!! Maybe they should wait until they are at least dominating the game of football before acting like they are the Kilkenny of football !!!
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on August 22, 2010, 05:17:26 PM
Adrian Walsh sealed donkey of the yr, how that man gets on the cork team i dont know. There is no football in him.
I'd have him just behind Niall Corkery and Eoghan O Gara for that award. I dont mean to be harsh on Corkery because he is a trojan work horse but cant see how Flynn would not be picked ahead of him.
Alan Brogan and Cluxton must be wondering will they ever reach an All Ireland Final
Quote from: haze on August 22, 2010, 05:58:25 PM
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on August 22, 2010, 05:17:26 PM
Adrian Walsh sealed donkey of the yr, how that man gets on the cork team i dont know. There is no football in him.
I'd have him just behind Niall Corkery and Eoghan O Gara for that award. I dont mean to be harsh on Corkery because he is a trojan work horse but cant see how Flynn would not be picked ahead of him.
Alan Brogan and Cluxton must be wondering will they ever reach an All Ireland Final
Did you see Corkery's pass for the goal by any chance???
Jaysus the whole bar I was in must have been watching a different game if some here think Deegan favored the Dubs ???
Absolutely not.!!
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on August 22, 2010, 06:00:28 PM
Quote from: haze on August 22, 2010, 05:58:25 PM
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on August 22, 2010, 05:17:26 PM
Adrian Walsh sealed donkey of the yr, how that man gets on the cork team i dont know. There is no football in him.
I'd have him just behind Niall Corkery and Eoghan O Gara for that award. I dont mean to be harsh on Corkery because he is a trojan work horse but cant see how Flynn would not be picked ahead of him.
Alan Brogan and Cluxton must be wondering will they ever reach an All Ireland Final
Did you see Corkery's pass for the goal by any chance???
I did yeah, and i thought it was the most positive contribution he has made all year for Dublin but that does not escape the fact that i think (though open to correction if clearly wrong) that Paul Flynn is a better footballer. I'm all for half forwards working their socks off but they need to have the quality to take a score when the opportunity arises. Cullen for example fits the Dublin model well.
Davoren for O Gara and Flynn for Corkery next year and i think the Dubs will be an even more formidable outfit
Quote from: Hardy on August 22, 2010, 05:18:56 PM
What the f*** is a "goal kick"?
I think it's a term peculiar to a foreign sport. I refuse to write it's name on this sacred side of the gaaboard.
I can't speak for you buddy, but Irish folk using these terms in relation to gaelic games makes me sick!
Quote from: Tyrones own on August 22, 2010, 06:05:22 PM
Jaysus the whole bar I was in must have been watching a different game if some here think Deegan favored the Dubs ???
Absolutely not.!!
100% agree with this. Deegan did his job today. Christy will be pleased.
Quote from: haze on August 22, 2010, 05:58:25 PM
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on August 22, 2010, 05:17:26 PM
Adrian Walsh sealed donkey of the yr, how that man gets on the cork team i dont know. There is no football in him.
I'd have him just behind Niall Corkery and Eoghan O Gara for that award. I dont mean to be harsh on Corkery because he is a trojan work horse but cant see how Flynn would not be picked ahead of him.
Alan Brogan and Cluxton must be wondering will they ever reach an All Ireland Final
If you think Aidan Walsh is a donkey then you know absolutely nothing whatsoever about football. I'll post on the game itself later. But i thought it was a great game, if the quality was be bit less than we would have hoped for.
Quote from: Bogball XV on August 22, 2010, 05:47:16 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 22, 2010, 05:40:43 PM
Lads, did anyone else think Paddy Kellys point towards the end (after the quick free) looked wide?
thought that myself
I thought that as well. Surely they would have highlighted it on RTÉ if there was a doubt over it?
Felt sorry for Dublin today. They've a lot of fairly limited footballers but their honesty of effort is fantastic. What was McConnell at though? Pure madness.
Cork are undoubtedly the best team left but they don't box clever at all. Whether they'll play better now having pulled a big game out of the fire in Croke Park for the first time in years remains to be seen.
Quote from: Zulu on August 22, 2010, 06:36:44 PM
Quote from: haze on August 22, 2010, 05:58:25 PM
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on August 22, 2010, 05:17:26 PM
Adrian Walsh sealed donkey of the yr, how that man gets on the cork team i dont know. There is no football in him.
I'd have him just behind Niall Corkery and Eoghan O Gara for that award. I dont mean to be harsh on Corkery because he is a trojan work horse but cant see how Flynn would not be picked ahead of him.
Alan Brogan and Cluxton must be wondering will they ever reach an All Ireland Final
If you think Aidan Walsh is a donkey then you know absolutely nothing whatsoever about football. I'll post on the game itself later. But i thought it was a great game, if the quality was be bit less than we would have hoped for.
No to be honest don't think he is a donkey was just following on from Sligonians point so was slightly exaggerating. All i can say about Walsh is that is so frustrating to watch. He turns over possession a lot of the time and more than any other Cork players seems to often take the wrong option. I'd rather Murphy than Walsh for the final if i was from Cork. Walsh is one for the future, very raw and will be a fine player in a few years time.
Yeah and it was a hugely enjoyable game, only a pity Dublin didn't win it
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on August 22, 2010, 06:44:44 PM
Quote from: Bogball XV on August 22, 2010, 05:47:16 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 22, 2010, 05:40:43 PM
Lads, did anyone else think Paddy Kellys point towards the end (after the quick free) looked wide?
thought that myself
I thought that as well. Surely they would have highlighted it on RTÉ if there was a doubt over it?
I was convinced at the time it was wide even after watching replay
I was at the match and didn't think it was a penalty, wasit really a certain penalty?
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on August 22, 2010, 06:44:44 PM
Quote from: Bogball XV on August 22, 2010, 05:47:16 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 22, 2010, 05:40:43 PM
Lads, did anyone else think Paddy Kellys point towards the end (after the quick free) looked wide?
thought that myself
I thought that as well. Surely they would have highlighted it on RTÉ if there was a doubt over it?
Felt sorry for Dublin today. They've a lot of fairly limited footballers but their honesty of effort is fantastic. What was McConnell at though? Pure madness.
Cork are undoubtedly the best team left but they don't box clever at all. Whether they'll play better now having pulled a big game out of the fire in Croke Park for the first time in years remains to be seen.
Cork didn't win that game, Dublin lost it. If they'd kept their heads they'd have seen out that game, Cork were never going to get the scores they needed from play, too many of their forwards were hiding. Kildare will definitely beat them in the final.
Quote from: haze on August 22, 2010, 06:48:27 PM
Quote from: Zulu on August 22, 2010, 06:36:44 PM
Quote from: haze on August 22, 2010, 05:58:25 PM
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on August 22, 2010, 05:17:26 PM
Adrian Walsh sealed donkey of the yr, how that man gets on the cork team i dont know. There is no football in him.
I'd have him just behind Niall Corkery and Eoghan O Gara for that award. I dont mean to be harsh on Corkery because he is a trojan work horse but cant see how Flynn would not be picked ahead of him.
Alan Brogan and Cluxton must be wondering will they ever reach an All Ireland Final
If you think Aidan Walsh is a donkey then you know absolutely nothing whatsoever about football. I'll post on the game itself later. But i thought it was a great game, if the quality was be bit less than we would have hoped for.
No to be honest don't think he is a donkey was just following on from Sligonians point so was slightly exaggerating. All i can say about Walsh is that is so frustrating to watch. He turns over possession a lot of the time and more than any other Cork players seems to often take the wrong option. I'd rather Murphy than Walsh for the final if i was from Cork. Walsh is one for the future, very raw and will be a fine player in a few years time.
Yeah and it was a hugely enjoyable game, only a pity Dublin didn't win it
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on August 22, 2010, 06:44:44 PM
Quote from: Bogball XV on August 22, 2010, 05:47:16 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 22, 2010, 05:40:43 PM
Lads, did anyone else think Paddy Kellys point towards the end (after the quick free) looked wide?
thought that myself
I thought that as well. Surely they would have highlighted it on RTÉ if there was a doubt over it?
I was convinced at the time it was wide even after watching replay
People will say he wins ball and does work etc.. you know the usual cliches, but this lad when he gets the ball is 95% going to give it away or balloon it wide and considering his performance in Killarnery where he imploded us with his accuracy to think he still shooting away is beyond me. That man shouldnt be allowed to use his feet at all. Lay it off. I dont think ive ever seen such a poor footballer grace an intercounty team that gets to an AI final.
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on August 22, 2010, 05:42:15 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 22, 2010, 05:40:43 PM
Lads, did anyone else think Paddy Kellys point towards the end (after the quick free) looked wide?
Was pretty sure it was but thought the umpires couldn't have got that wrong...
In my opinion it was wide, and don't be surprised at umpires getting it wrong.
Look at the 2 gobshite umpires who didn't bring the ref's attention to Meath's 'goal' against Louth at the same end.
Wide or not I don't know although I thought it was wide in the replay as well but if it was wide it just cancelled out MDM's illegal point in the first half
Quote from: Capt Pat on August 22, 2010, 06:53:26 PM
I was at the match and didn't think it was a penalty, wasit really a certain penalty?
I didn't think it was. The defender had his arms out wide and O'Neill ran into him, grabbed the defenders arm and hit the deck, pulling the defender down as well. Ref was very willing to buy it. Sprinted to the penalty spot. O'Neill dived a good few times when he came on. Good tactics I suppose. ::)
Quote from: Capt Pat on August 22, 2010, 06:53:26 PM
I was at the match and didn't think it was a penalty, wasit really a certain penalty?
Stonewall penalty,even the crew on ResDubs are saying so..
definite penalty for me too, stupid defending..
Paddy Kelly's point definitely went over
Quote from: haze on August 22, 2010, 06:06:08 PM
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on August 22, 2010, 06:00:28 PM
Quote from: haze on August 22, 2010, 05:58:25 PM
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on August 22, 2010, 05:17:26 PM
Adrian Walsh sealed donkey of the yr, how that man gets on the cork team i dont know. There is no football in him.
I'd have him just behind Niall Corkery and Eoghan O Gara for that award. I dont mean to be harsh on Corkery because he is a trojan work horse but cant see how Flynn would not be picked ahead of him.
Alan Brogan and Cluxton must be wondering will they ever reach an All Ireland Final
Did you see Corkery's pass for the goal by any chance???
I did yeah, and i thought it was the most positive contribution he has made all year for Dublin but that does not escape the fact that i think (though open to correction if clearly wrong) that Paul Flynn is a better footballer. I'm all for half forwards working their socks off but they need to have the quality to take a score when the opportunity arises. Cullen for example fits the Dublin model well.
Davoren for O Gara and Flynn for Corkery next year and i think the Dubs will be an even more formidable outfit
davoren is gone for next season and may never play county football again. Corkery had his best game today. Not my type of player but I'll give him his due today.
Not going to bother posting on it. probably be found on a park bench somewhere during the week sometime. I'll never watch the video of that match ever again. I'm not going to read a newspaper either.
But i can't believe we lost that game considering how bad Cork are. I've been so wrong on Cork. A truly average outfit. Doesn't make us look much good but we knew we're not that good beforehand. But most of the Cork team are so lacking in the basics its not funny. They ddin't win it- we gave it to them. Poor reflection on us too.
But I couldn;t fault the dublin team for the effort they gave.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 22, 2010, 07:02:15 PM
definite penalty for me too, stupid defending..
ResDubs forum also saying its a awful shame they didn't win as they would defiantly have won the final no matter who they played...
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 22, 2010, 07:02:15 PM
definite penalty for me too, stupid defending..
what about all the poxy frees Deegan gave them as well that weren't frees. A truly disgraceful referreeing performance.
Told you so Dinny didn't I :D
Dublin seemed to run out of steam, which resulted in some sloppy tackling and poor shot selection. Not surprising after the effort they had put in up to the last 5-10 mins.
(http://www.sportsfile.com/winshare/watermarked-b/Library/SF626/453470.jpg)
(http://www.sportsfile.com/winshare/watermarked-b/Library/SF626/453471.jpg)
(http://www.sportsfile.com/winshare/watermarked-b/Library/SF626/453473.jpg)
Stone wall penalty lads. Hard to believe Deegan didn't give him the second yellow for it. I thought he gave most of the marginal calls in Dublin's favour for most of the game though. He's a poor referee as anyone who saw the Kildare Antrim match in Newbridge will testify.
The foul McConnell was sent off for was even more brainless and unecessary than the penalty kick. O'Leary was running into traffic and he wouldn't be the most noted shooter either. Absolute stupidity and cost his team big time.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 22, 2010, 07:05:40 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 22, 2010, 07:02:15 PM
definite penalty for me too, stupid defending..
what about all the poxy frees Deegan gave them as well that weren't frees. A truly disgraceful referreeing performance.
I have made my views clear on Deegan before, a very very poor ref whose incompetence almost cost Kildare against Antrim however he didn't cost the Dubs today, inexperience, indiscipline and a lack of a forward to take the scoring burden off BB did that. Dublins tackling has been poor all year imho
Quotedefinite penalty for me too, stupid defending..
what about all the poxy frees Deegan gave them as well that weren't frees. A truly disgraceful referreeing performance.
As disgraceful as the refereeing may have been Cork have spared Duibin a probable AI humiliation from Kildare or Down. Hard to call by todays game if Cork are good enough for an AI as it was a poor game and unless Kildare and Down do better next week the GAA world will be on their knees praying for a Tyrone and Kerry return to the semis to entertain you all.
As it stands you'd have to back Kildare for for the final as the only team left who actually possess a spine this year.
O'Gara did well enough for about 45 or 50 minutes and then just stopped moving, he was out on his feet and there was a crucial 10 minute spell where with half of Dublins 2 man forward line not moving Cork were able to steal the initiative. Keaney came on 10 minutes late. Dublin first moved an extra man into the forward line before realising that the real problem, was O'Gara had come to a stand still. It must have been very hot out on the pitch today.
The other 2 things that went against Dublin were the sending off and the penalty.
I was on the nally terrace today in the top corner. It is a good spot to watch a match.
Quote from: under the bar on August 22, 2010, 07:12:57 PM
Quotedefinite penalty for me too, stupid defending..
what about all the poxy frees Deegan gave them as well that weren't frees. A truly disgraceful referreeing performance.
As disgraceful as the refereeing may have been Cork have spared Duibin a probable AI humiliation from Kildare or Down. A complete dung-fest served up today for an AI semi and unless Kiladre and Down do better next week the GAA world will be on their knees praying for a Tyrone and Kerry return to the semis to entertain you all.
As it stands you'd have to back Kildare for for the final as the only team left who actually possess a spine this year.
What game were you watching? Newcastle V Villa? That was a very good game of football. I couldn't fault it at all.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 22, 2010, 07:04:20 PM
But i can't believe we lost that game considering how bad Cork are. I've been so wrong on Cork. A truly average outfit. Doesn't make us look much good but we knew we're not that good beforehand. But most of the Cork team are so lacking in the basics its not funny. They ddin't win it- we gave it to them. Poor reflection on us too.
But I couldn;t fault the dublin team for the effort they gave.
You shoulda left it at that Indiana, a perfect summation of the game, the ref didn't beat ye ,ye beat yourselves. Have to say that B Brogan was as culpable as anyone in the last 10 mins. Truly great players don't take the options he took when the game was there to be killed.
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on August 22, 2010, 06:54:49 PM
Quote from: haze on August 22, 2010, 06:48:27 PM
Quote from: Zulu on August 22, 2010, 06:36:44 PM
Quote from: haze on August 22, 2010, 05:58:25 PM
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on August 22, 2010, 05:17:26 PM
Adrian Walsh sealed donkey of the yr, how that man gets on the cork team i dont know. There is no football in him.
I'd have him just behind Niall Corkery and Eoghan O Gara for that award. I dont mean to be harsh on Corkery because he is a trojan work horse but cant see how Flynn would not be picked ahead of him.
Alan Brogan and Cluxton must be wondering will they ever reach an All Ireland Final
If you think Aidan Walsh is a donkey then you know absolutely nothing whatsoever about football. I'll post on the game itself later. But i thought it was a great game, if the quality was be bit less than we would have hoped for.
No to be honest don't think he is a donkey was just following on from Sligonians point so was slightly exaggerating. All i can say about Walsh is that is so frustrating to watch. He turns over possession a lot of the time and more than any other Cork players seems to often take the wrong option. I'd rather Murphy than Walsh for the final if i was from Cork. Walsh is one for the future, very raw and will be a fine player in a few years time.
Yeah and it was a hugely enjoyable game, only a pity Dublin didn't win it
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on August 22, 2010, 06:44:44 PM
Quote from: Bogball XV on August 22, 2010, 05:47:16 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 22, 2010, 05:40:43 PM
Lads, did anyone else think Paddy Kellys point towards the end (after the quick free) looked wide?
thought that myself
I thought that as well. Surely they would have highlighted it on RTÉ if there was a doubt over it?
I was convinced at the time it was wide even after watching replay
People will say he wins ball and does work etc.. you know the usual cliches, but this lad when he gets the ball is 95% going to give it away or balloon it wide and considering his performance in Killarnery where he imploded us with his accuracy to think he still shooting away is beyond me. That man shouldnt be allowed to use his feet at all. Lay it off. I dont think ive ever seen such a poor footballer grace an intercounty team that gets to an AI final.
That's just rubbish, he is a bit raw and is no Bernard Brogan when it comes to finishing but he is one of teh best U21 footballers in Ireland and will be a serious footballer for years to come.
QuotePeople will say he wins ball and does work etc.. you know the usual cliches,
They're not clichés, they're aspects of play that all footballers need, he excels in many of theses facets of play and if he steadies up in front of goal he will be outstanding.
By the way Spillane should be shown the door at RTE, his analysis of both today's games was a disgrace. His view of both games was simply the team that wins played the positive football and that is the reason they won, FFS.
Best game of the year.
Fataztic commitment by both sides. I thought Cork were dead and buried.
Dublin's poor tackling / rashness probably cost them in the end.
Dublin will be delighted with the way the season finished.
As for Cork's it's their AI to lose now.
Dublin definitely left that game behind them in Croke today, but they'll have better days in the not too distant future.
Disappointed at the ease with which some of the big athletic lads hit the deck today, and they weren't wearing blue.
Quote from: orangeman on August 22, 2010, 07:29:42 PM
Best game of the year.
Fataztic commitment by both sides. I thought Cork were dead and buried.
Dublin's poor tackling / rashness probably cost them in the end.
Dublin will be delighted with the way the season finished. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
As for Cork's it's their AI to lose now.
Random cliche generator alert
Quote from: Zulu on August 22, 2010, 07:24:03 PM
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on August 22, 2010, 06:54:49 PM
Quote from: haze on August 22, 2010, 06:48:27 PM
Quote from: Zulu on August 22, 2010, 06:36:44 PM
Quote from: haze on August 22, 2010, 05:58:25 PM
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on August 22, 2010, 05:17:26 PM
Adrian Walsh sealed donkey of the yr, how that man gets on the cork team i dont know. There is no football in him.
I'd have him just behind Niall Corkery and Eoghan O Gara for that award. I dont mean to be harsh on Corkery because he is a trojan work horse but cant see how Flynn would not be picked ahead of him.
Alan Brogan and Cluxton must be wondering will they ever reach an All Ireland Final
If you think Aidan Walsh is a donkey then you know absolutely nothing whatsoever about football. I'll post on the game itself later. But i thought it was a great game, if the quality was be bit less than we would have hoped for.
No to be honest don't think he is a donkey was just following on from Sligonians point so was slightly exaggerating. All i can say about Walsh is that is so frustrating to watch. He turns over possession a lot of the time and more than any other Cork players seems to often take the wrong option. I'd rather Murphy than Walsh for the final if i was from Cork. Walsh is one for the future, very raw and will be a fine player in a few years time.
Yeah and it was a hugely enjoyable game, only a pity Dublin didn't win it
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on August 22, 2010, 06:44:44 PM
Quote from: Bogball XV on August 22, 2010, 05:47:16 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 22, 2010, 05:40:43 PM
Lads, did anyone else think Paddy Kellys point towards the end (after the quick free) looked wide?
thought that myself
I thought that as well. Surely they would have highlighted it on RTÉ if there was a doubt over it?
I was convinced at the time it was wide even after watching replay
People will say he wins ball and does work etc.. you know the usual cliches, but this lad when he gets the ball is 95% going to give it away or balloon it wide and considering his performance in Killarnery where he imploded us with his accuracy to think he still shooting away is beyond me. That man shouldnt be allowed to use his feet at all. Lay it off. I dont think ive ever seen such a poor footballer grace an intercounty team that gets to an AI final.
That's just rubbish, he is a bit raw and is no Bernard Brogan when it comes to finishing but he is one of teh best U21 footballers in Ireland and will be a serious footballer for years to come.
QuotePeople will say he wins ball and does work etc.. you know the usual cliches,
They're not clichés, they're aspects of play that all footballers need, he excels in many of theses facets of play and if he steadies up in front of goal he will be outstanding.
Ah stop he has a lot more to improve on than just his shooting. If he was from Laois or a similar county I wouldnt be critical of him at all but he is not, he is midfield on the team that is favourite for the All Irelandl, he does win ball and work hard but do you think he is a better player overall right now than Murphy?
QuoteBy the way Spillane should be shown the door at RTE, his analysis of both today's games was a disgrace. His view of both games was simply the team that wins played the positive football and that is the reason they won, FFS.
Agree here. To me Dublin played the most positive football. More direct and put together some fine passages of play. Watching Cork at times would make you want to pull your hair out
Kildare's AI to lose.
Gilroy was the one that messed up today and quite frankly I am sick of all this talk about him and his bonus territory and all the players getting up at 5.30am to start training at 6am which comes a close second to pushing cars around a beach in Mayo. He mustn't have gone to bed at all last night because he was asleep on the sideline with twenty minutes to go, the manager of a junior club would have seen the change that needed to be made.
Quotedo you think he is a better player overall right now than Murphy?
I think he is better than Alan O'Connor anyway and currently he is a better option than Murphy as Nick doesn't have 70 minutes in him. And he'll be a far better midfielder than Murphy ever was over the next few years IMO. By the way he played a lot of his underage football in the HB line so he isn't a scorer and he didn't play brilliantly today but he has immense talent and I would have thought that was clear for all to see.
As for Cork, well they continue to underperform. I thought Dublin deserved to win the game and maybe could have done so had they pushed on a bit more. Counihan doesn't seem to know what he wants and he certainly isn't getting the team to play to its strengths. Sheehan should be wing forward, Colm O'Neill to FF and Cadogan should start in the backline. Decision to play Canty was wrong too IMO and I'd get Cork to kick the ball in more. I don't mind handpassing when necessary or even as a style of play but it is easy enough to counteract if it is your only ploy. Cork may well win the AI now, though I wouldn't put much on it, but Counihan isn't the man to get the most out the talent in Cork.
Quotethe manager of a junior club would have seen the change that needed to be made.
Which were?
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on August 21, 2010, 07:01:04 PM
Quote from: Zulu on August 21, 2010, 05:38:09 PM
Cork avg 1-14 per game in 6 games while Dublin avg is 1-16 per game...
So Cork a little above the Avg today... while Dublin down a little
Tough on the Dubs but they can have no complaints, only regrets.
The ref had a good game. For the life of me I could not figure out why the some of the Cork players were clutching their face as they hit the deck like a felled redwood tree.
Sad for Brogan after having a game like that, I knew he was good but I honestly did not know he was this good.
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on August 22, 2010, 05:17:26 PM
Adrian Walsh sealed donkey of the yr, how that man gets on the cork team i dont know. There is no football in him.
No10 and No12 won the game for Cork, these two lads kept cork in when behind. There lines of runing and ball carrying skills where a honour to watch. There awareness to turn out of trouble just brlliant. Colm O Neill intro sealed the win.
Its true that his kicking can be very wayward but he is a good player. I was at the drawn game in Killarney and when the going got tough he never shirked, won a lot of ball and was never afraid to take responsibility. He is very raw but I think he could develop into a very good player which is very worrying for a Kerry perspective.
Quote
Dublin definitely left that game behind them in Croke today, but they'll have better days in the not too distant future.
Don't think it works like that. Cork where there for the taking today if the Dubs had a bit more composure and they would have bit your hand off at the start of the year if you had offered an AI final against the winners of Kildare and Down.
They have lost a serious amount of tight games over the last 20 years.
Meath over 4 games in 91 when the better team for large parts of it
Donegal when hot favourites 92
Derry by a point in 93
Missed penalty when losing to Down by 2 in 94
Maurice Fitz last minute equalised from sideline in 2001
Easy free missed in last minute against Armagh in 2002
Mugsy goals in 05 drawn game
6 up against Mayo with about 20 minutes to go in the AI semi final in 06
They just don't seem to have to have the composure in the last 10 minutes when they see the finishing line.
Quote from: under the bar on August 22, 2010, 07:12:57 PM
Quotedefinite penalty for me too, stupid defending..
what about all the poxy frees Deegan gave them as well that weren't frees. A truly disgraceful referreeing performance.
As disgraceful as the refereeing may have been Cork have spared Duibin a probable AI humiliation from Kildare or Down. Hard to call by todays game if Cork are good enough for an AI as it was a poor game and unless Kildare and Down do better next week the GAA world will be on their knees praying for a Tyrone and Kerry return to the semis to entertain you all.
As it stands you'd have to back Kildare for for the final as the only team left who actually possess a spine this year.
The idea that Down would be capable of humiliating Dublin is simply laughable.
They beat a Kerry team that was limping along minus half last years team and now they are being talked up on the back of it.
I honestly think Kildare will make bits of them.
Mike - Dublin lost it more than Cork won it. Cork got what I still maintain was a dubious penalty (the pictures back up what thought happened) and a few soft frees towards the end. This coupled with Dublin running out of juice and their lack of experience let Cork over the line. Credit to Cork obviously for keeping going but Dublin should be sick.
That was a seriously gutsy performance from the langers. That point seems to be lost on here. All the pressure was on them coming into this game and they trailed the whole game until the 70th min but they stuck with it. If that was Meath, Tyrone, Armagh etc people would be wetting themselves with misty eyed cuculainn-ish hero talk. Instead it's a case of the other side throwing it away ::)
(sorry hit delete instead of modify!)
Jaysus, how can you say the penalty was dubious...it was the most obvious penalty I have ever see :o
running out of juice means Cork were fitter and lack of experience means Cork had more experience so that means Cork are a better team so the better team won. I mean, whats next....the other team "only" won because they were more accurate !!
Look, dont get me wrong, Dublin undoubtedly could have won but this is a bit of a bugbear with me as I've heard it so many times with Kerry :P , basically, the premise is that some teams are expected to win by a certain amount and if they only scrape home by one then they were "let off the hook" ...other teams , on the other hand show "great grit" to pull a game they are expected to win out of the fire.....its a fierce double standard.
OK - you're entitled to your opinion as I am to mine.
Quote from: magpie seanie on August 22, 2010, 09:35:41 PM
OK - you're entitled to your opinion as I am to mine.
Have you not seen Donnellys Hollows photos? BOD could learn a few things from that tackle
(http://www.sportsfile.com/winshare/watermarked-b/Library/SF626/453470.jpg)
Thoughts from the match:
1. The penalty was a nailed on, stonewall no brainer. Simple as that.
2. Cork were there for the taking.
3. Cork are seriously overrated but have the best bench in football.
4. And have at last devleoped a set of b@lls
5. Gilroy has done wonders with that Dublin team
6. Dublin are still not a "top 3" team and won't be until they get some composure in the last 10 on a regular basis
7. The "top 3" themselves are not really that far ahead of the pack.
7. Bernard Brogan is feckin fantastic - never thought he would be that good when he came on the scene.
8. McConnell let his team down badly today in the final quarter. Brainless.
Watching it again - Kerrigan wasn't far off MOTM.
I honestly think Dublin will be waiting quite a few years for a better chance to win an All-Ireland after today.
I admire what Gilroy has done there and I respect the intensity, work-rate and graft Dublin brought to Croke Park this year. It was refreshing to see the whole-set up stripped back to basics. However, in my opinion hard-work only gets you so far. Hard-word lets you compete with the best teams but 9 times out of ten, the better team will break you down once you get tired and that happened today. Dublin's work-rate was exceptional but there is no way they could maintain that level of performance for 70 minutes.
I'll give it to Bernard, he has fantastic abillity. However, I do think he is too greedy. His last point should have been worked to try and get a goal and I thought that kick was pretty much saying, "Look at me, We're losing but I got another point so give me an All-Star".
O'Gara does serious work for BB, but needs to seriously brush up on his basic skills. From a Cork POV Colm O'Neill was exceptional when he came on. What was Counihan thinking thought starting Carey on BB? That was madness.
And even Stevie Wonder saw that was a penalty..
QuoteWho are the top 3?
What basis now makes them top 3?
I would have thought that as Munster and Ulster champions this year and having shared every All Ireland between them since 2003 - Tyrone and Kerry would still qualify (on averagesuccess) as 2 of the top 3 teams in the country.
Cork are the next best thing.
Just my opinion and yes -
technically the 2 teams in the final this year could be classified as the top 2..this year.
Top 3 ... Cork, Kildare and Down.
None of them too far ahead of "the pack"
Quote from: cogito on August 22, 2010, 09:56:18 PM
And even Stevie Wonder saw that was a penalty..
Watching it again on the Sunday Game it was even more clear cut that I had previously thought,Brian O'Driscol would have been proud of that tackle
Tough luck on the Dubs today , I think that they will learn a lot from today and will be a serious team over the next number of years . Cork will be pleased in the manner that they got through . It will be an interesting challenge for Conor Counihan and his back room team of what is their best starting 15 . No doubt the penalty was the turning point
Quote from: tyroneman on August 22, 2010, 09:45:49 PM
Thoughts from the match:
1. The penalty was a nailed on, stonewall no brainer. Simple as that.
2. Cork were there for the taking.
3. Cork are seriously overrated but have the best bench in football.
4. And have at last devleoped a set of b@lls
5. Gilroy has done wonders with that Dublin team
6. Dublin are still not a "top 3" team and won't be until they get some composure in the last 10 on a regular basis
7. The "top 3" themselves are not really that far ahead of the pack.
7. Bernard Brogan is feckin fantastic - never thought he would be that good when he came on the scene.
8. McConnell let his team down badly today in the final quarter. Brainless.
That is a good and fair summary. I was on the corner of the Davin and Cusack stands and had a 'side on' view of the penalty. What the photos above don't show is that McConnell 'drove through' his man. As Donnelly's said, the only question was how a man on a yellow card managed to get away without a second for that foul.
As to the Dublin changes, Bud should be declaring his Boden membership in making the case for Keaney. O'Gara is no butterfly and was not as good today as in each of the last two days but he did endless ploughing for Brogan - the type of selfless dirty work that Keaney would never do. When Keaney did come in he made bad decisions on the ball and did nothing to take the pressure off Brogan.
Dublin played this game at a very high pace and in the last ten minutes that caught up with them. McConnell's indiscretions were a result of a tired mind as much as anything else.
My reaction on the final whistle was that the best team lost but then factor in all the possession Cork had, the wides, the number of frees that Dublin conceded and that Cork came from 5 points down within the last 20/25 minutes and it is hard not to say that Cork deserved it.
In terms of the All Ireland, I think there is an awful amount of ramaish being written here about how either Cork or Dublin would / will win the final. For my money, literally, going into the semi finals these two teams were 3rd and 4th best of those left in the championship in terms of performances this year to date and that has to be the reference point for assessing their prospects. Granted Cork have experience and a great squad and having emerged from this test will likely be favourites but barely deserved.
QuoteThat is a good and fair summary. I was on the corner of the Davin and Cusack stands and had a 'side on' view of the penalty. What the photos above don't show is that McConnell 'drove through' his man. As Donnelly's said, the only question was how a man on a yellow card managed to get away without a second for that foul.
I know I'm in a small minority on this one but does no-one think the defender was pulled over?
Quote from: magpie seanie on August 22, 2010, 11:14:33 PM
QuoteThat is a good and fair summary. I was on the corner of the Davin and Cusack stands and had a 'side on' view of the penalty. What the photos above don't show is that McConnell 'drove through' his man. As Donnelly's said, the only question was how a man on a yellow card managed to get away without a second for that foul.
I know I'm in a small minority on this one but does no-one think the defender was pulled over?
There was definitely an 'element' of that; a consummate draw for the foul.
Someone earlier mentioned Bernard Brogan wearing an ear-piece - I thought I saw one too - Can anyone shed any light on that one?
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 22, 2010, 11:17:05 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on August 22, 2010, 11:14:33 PM
QuoteThat is a good and fair summary. I was on the corner of the Davin and Cusack stands and had a 'side on' view of the penalty. What the photos above don't show is that McConnell 'drove through' his man. As Donnelly's said, the only question was how a man on a yellow card managed to get away without a second for that foul.
I know I'm in a small minority on this one but does no-one think the defender was pulled over?
There was definitely an 'element' of that; a consummate draw for the foul.
There was and that is clear in the last of the three photos in the sequence. I didn't see the play back on TV but from the angle I had O' Connell drove forward into O'Neill with his upper body, had both hands free and around the attacker - think you can see that in the first photo of the sequence and had already taken his feet off the ground with the impact of the 'body hug' (again that is clear in the photo). The entrapment of the arm comes on the way down - 'just to be sure like'.
From that discussion though and it was referreed elsewhere, the Cork team is right up there as being one of the most cynical around at the minute. They were falling and feigning against Roscommon, again today and against Kerry. Mind you they got plenty of legitimate contact today as well and while there were a few soft frees either way, they evened out. Thought the referee was barely with the game but wasn't a winning or losing factor for either side IMO.
Yeah and actually in contrast I saw several Dublin players getting heavy rattles and just getting on with it. Fair play to them.
It looked more like ear plugs himself and O'Gara were wearing.
Did they think:
a) It'd cut out the crowd
b) It's cut out any trash-talking
c) The "whistle" ?
Definite penalty and yellow card. This was the turning point, Cork were kind of huffing and puffing until this. The introduction of O'Neill gave Cork a focal point, up until then only Kerrigan provided any kind of spark.
If Dublin had a few subs ( dare I say it Glenn Ryan or Jayo) for the last 10 minutes with a bit of composure they should have won. Like some others I don't agree with this there's always next year. This opportunity should have been seized.
Still get the impression ther is no real game plan with Cork just constant driving from half back through tackles.
Whoever wins next week will more than likely go into the final as underdogs. Both Kildare and Down would have better 16-20s than Dublin and would probably be more tactially aware than Dublin.
Dublin do deserve a lot of credit for the distance they have came since last year but next year will be harder still.
Quote from: Orangemac on August 22, 2010, 11:47:02 PM
If Dublin had a few subs ( dare I say it Glenn Ryan or Jayo) for the last 10 minutes with a bit of composure they should have won. Like some others I don't agree with this there's always next year. This opportunity should have been seized.
Jaysus they'd never get away with that would they?? ;D
A number of things have struck me about today and I'll try and go through them.
1. Dublin are a one man team, everything is built around BB and bar Alan the Dublin team is a crowd of muscle bound athletes with limited football ability. Fair play to Gilroy who realised this and came up with a fantastic gameplan that maximised his resources! If he was Cork manager they would have won the game at an absolute canter.
2. Cork are surviving through hunger and having decent footballers, their tactical naieveté will be found out by either Kildare or Down unless they come up with a decent system of play for the final.
3. The way Down are being dismissed on this thread is staggering!! They played excellent football to get to this stage and are playing a team that got beat by Louth and were lucky to escape with a draw against Antrim. This is not to say Kildare are a bad team but they haven't been up against a serious side yet and I think the Down game will be very close!
Quote from: screenexile on August 23, 2010, 12:06:05 AM
1. Dublin are a one man team, everything is built around BB and bar Alan the Dublin team is a crowd of muscle bound athletes with limited football ability. Fair play to Gilroy who realised this and came up with a fantastic gameplan that maximised his resources! If he was Cork manager they would have won the game at an absolute canter.
Don't forget about Mickey Whelan, and
Tyroneman Michael Kennedy too for that matter ;)
Quotelucky to escape with a draw against Antrim
::)
Were at the game? Kildare shot 23 wides in that game, the day they buried a players father and mentor to many of them. They never looked like losing expect for a 5 minute spell at the end, the replay was a true relection of the difference bwtween those two sides.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 23, 2010, 12:17:29 AM
Quotelucky to escape with a draw against Antrim
::)
Were at the game? Kildare shot 23 wides in that game, the day they buried a players father and mentor to many of them. They never looked like losing expect for a 5 minute spell at the end, the replay was a true relection of the difference bwtween those two sides.
Not to mention Deegan's display that day!
Quote from: screenexile on August 23, 2010, 12:06:05 AM
A number of things have struck me about today and I'll try and go through them.
1. Dublin are a one man team, everything is built around BB and bar Alan the Dublin team is a crowd of muscle bound athletes with limited football ability. Fair play to Gilroy who realised this and came up with a fantastic gameplan that maximised his resources! If he was Cork manager they would have won the game at an absolute canter.
2. Cork are surviving through hunger and having decent footballers, their tactical naieveté will be found out by either Kildare or Down unless they come up with a decent system of play for the final.
3. The way Down are being dismissed on this thread is staggering!! They played excellent football to get to this stage and are playing a team that got beat by Louth and were lucky to escape with a draw against Antrim. This is not to say Kildare are a bad team but they haven't been up against a serious side yet and I think the Down game will be very close!
While I don't agree with the assessment of Kildare, I agree with the other three points. Down at 9/2 for the AI is a good bet. IMO, the two best teams left after the quarters are playing next week.
The fact that Cork squeaked by the team that was 4th of the four, by a distance, doesn't change that, although they are now 2/5 for the AI with all the major bookies (PP, Ladbrokes, Boyle and Betpack) which is total nuts. On that basis the winners next week will be 2/1 or 5/2 which is decent odds in such a two horse race and should make the handicap betting really good value.
The All-Ireland final was today.
Apologies, meant Shane Ryan.
Glenn Ryan in his day wouldn't have went amiss either.
Quote from: paddypastit on August 23, 2010, 12:30:04 AM
The fact that Cork squeaked by the team that was 4th of the four, by a distance, doesn't change that, although they are now 2/5 for the AI with all the major bookies (PP, Ladbrokes, Boyle and Betpack) which is total nuts. On that basis the winners next week will be 2/1 or 5/2 which is decent odds in such a two horse race and should make the handicap betting really good value.
Unlikely I'd say. They'll ease out a shade after next Sunday. Whoever wins next Sunday will be around the 13/8 mark - maybe 7/4 max.
Most bookies probably have significant antepost liabilities on Cork since the League but I imagine there'll be plenty willing to lay them as the Final approaches on the evidence of today.
QuoteQuote from: tyroneman on August 22, 2010, 10:05:22 PM
Quote
Who are the top 3?
What basis now makes them top 3?
I would have thought that as Munster and Ulster champions this year and having shared every All Ireland between them since 2003 - Tyrone and Kerry would still qualify (on averagesuccess) as 2 of the top 3 teams in the country.
Cork are the next best thing.
Just my opinion and yes - technically the 2 teams in the final this year could be classified as the top 2..this year.
Can't see how you can still consider Tyrone as a top 3 given their decline since 2008. Kerry will soon be in the same decline if they don't get a top four championship fiinish in 2011.
Top three could well be Kerry, Cork and Dublin, one on record and two on the up. Kildare and Down could be one hit wonders or could be on the threshold of much more.
A decline that has seen them reach an AI semi final, an AI quarter final and win 2 provincial championships in a row. If Kerry are there "on record" I believe Tyrone would also have to be there.
Why would Dublin be in the top 3? - what have they won at AI level since 95 remind me? How many finals have they contested since then?
Still....it's agame of opinions ;)
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on August 23, 2010, 12:35:30 AM
Quote from: paddypastit on August 23, 2010, 12:30:04 AM
The fact that Cork squeaked by the team that was 4th of the four, by a distance, doesn't change that, although they are now 2/5 for the AI with all the major bookies (PP, Ladbrokes, Boyle and Betpack) which is total nuts. On that basis the winners next week will be 2/1 or 5/2 which is decent odds in such a two horse race and should make the handicap betting really good value.
Unlikely I'd say. They'll ease out a shade after next Sunday. Whoever wins next Sunday will be around the 13/8 mark - maybe 7/4 max.
Most bookies probably have significant antepost liabilities on Cork since the League but I imagine there'll be plenty willing to lay them as the Final approaches on the evidence of today.
That would make more sense but still won't reflect the reality of capability
Thought it was a stonewall peno myself as the no3 barged forward as paddy says, although an uncle of mine who knows his stuff saw it the same way as seanie.
Dublins tackling in the last 10mins had panic written all over them and maybe tired minds aswell, way too over agressive and wreckless. The decision making was poor as cork forwards had no chance of scoring when the fouls were commited.
Bernard Brogan though, tough to see him on losing side, O Gara is his perfect foil and its a pity he ran out of steam, it killed any momentum the dubs had. Brogans ability at timing his runs and getting out in front was immense, his ruthlessness shows no mercy in front of goal. Feel sorry for the dubs as i thought they were the better team. But fair play to gilroy in sticking to his guns all yr. After Meath some managers would of lost the plot, but not gilroy.
At least Dublin got a second chance in the championship, unlike Meath & the other 3 provincial winners. Some system >:(.
oh jesus, quit your whining. Tyrone weren't good enough. just accept it and move on. Its the Cork/Kildare/Down show now so just live with it.
Quote from: paddypastit on August 22, 2010, 10:59:20 PM
Quote from: tyroneman on August 22, 2010, 09:45:49 PM
Thoughts from the match:
1. The penalty was a nailed on, stonewall no brainer. Simple as that.
2. Cork were there for the taking.
3. Cork are seriously overrated but have the best bench in football.
4. And have at last devleoped a set of b@lls
5. Gilroy has done wonders with that Dublin team
6. Dublin are still not a "top 3" team and won't be until they get some composure in the last 10 on a regular basis
7. The "top 3" themselves are not really that far ahead of the pack.
7. Bernard Brogan is feckin fantastic - never thought he would be that good when he came on the scene.
8. McConnell let his team down badly today in the final quarter. Brainless.
That is a good and fair summary. I was on the corner of the Davin and Cusack stands and had a 'side on' view of the penalty. What the photos above don't show is that McConnell 'drove through' his man. As Donnelly's said, the only question was how a man on a yellow card managed to get away without a second for that foul.
As to the Dublin changes, Bud should be declaring his Boden membership in making the case for Keaney. O'Gara is no butterfly and was not as good today as in each of the last two days but he did endless ploughing for Brogan - the type of selfless dirty work that Keaney would never do. When Keaney did come in he made bad decisions on the ball and did nothing to take the pressure off Brogan.
Dublin played this game at a very high pace and in the last ten minutes that caught up with them. McConnell's indiscretions were a result of a tired mind as much as anything else.
My reaction on the final whistle was that the best team lost but then factor in all the possession Cork had, the wides, the number of frees that Dublin conceded and that Cork came from 5 points down within the last 20/25 minutes and it is hard not to say that Cork deserved it.
In terms of the All Ireland, I think there is an awful amount of ramaish being written here about how either Cork or Dublin would / will win the final. For my money, literally, going into the semi finals these two teams were 3rd and 4th best of those left in the championship in terms of performances this year to date and that has to be the reference point for assessing their prospects. Granted Cork have experience and a great squad and having emerged from this test will likely be favourites but barely deserved.
It has nothing to do with my Boden membership, Keaney is a better footballer than O'Gara at the start of the game much less coming on as a sub. I dont know how you can say when Keaney came on he did not make an impression because he didn't have time to do so as the ball only came near him two times. He won a free and stuck it over out of that sequence. It appears to me the two Brogan brothers will only pass the ball to each other. If I was on the All-Stars selection panel and somebody played me a video of a forward on a team, two points down in an All-Ireland Semi Final and him ballooning the ball high into Hill 16 with no more time on the clock instead of passing the ball (for once) to a player knowing that the only way to win was with a goal then I would not be giving him an All-Star. The best team lost on the day and they lost because of stupid decisions like that and what was made on the sideline. Next year will be the same. And the year after.
Hard luck Dublin. Have to say that I was wrong about Gilroy and he has turned it around this season. I still question some of the individual selections but cant argue with getting within an inch of the final and if they did....
I'd think that the tactic of withdrawing all the players behind half way leaving the dynamic duo of O'Gara to attack the high ball and BB to attack the breaks and everything else may be just a plan A with no plan B, but it so nearly worked. Keaney would not provide as good a foil for BB in this regards. If Dublin had kicked even more high ball into the FF line for OGara, I think Cork would have buckled. Dublin ae far cuter and cynical now and wouldnt allow fast frees and ball to be taken, also I have to admit they did border on the edge of persistent fouling to stop corks attacks - and they have done this for the past few games. OK it might be puke football and it might not be pretty, but if it won them th eAI, then it would be worth doing. Teams playing free flowing football rarely win in the modern game - even Kerry had to adapt to this tactic a couple of years ago !
I'd also agree that the penalty was def a penalty - an american football tackle and there is no way the forward coul dhave thrown himself backwards like that- even without this, by wrapping both arms around the attacker - that was a penalty. Thats why moconnell was taken out of FB this season !
Standards across football are levelling and the top 3 are very close to the rest of the pack now and football is better for it. The anticipation of all intercounty teams for next season should be that they all can win it !
QuoteThe All-Ireland final was today.
What are you basing that statement on O'Neill? I think Kildare would give either Cork or Dublin all they wanted and more.
Quote from: Bud Wiser on August 23, 2010, 08:19:54 AM
Quote from: paddypastit on August 22, 2010, 10:59:20 PM
Quote from: tyroneman on August 22, 2010, 09:45:49 PM
Thoughts from the match:
1. The penalty was a nailed on, stonewall no brainer. Simple as that.
2. Cork were there for the taking.
3. Cork are seriously overrated but have the best bench in football.
4. And have at last devleoped a set of b@lls
5. Gilroy has done wonders with that Dublin team
6. Dublin are still not a "top 3" team and won't be until they get some composure in the last 10 on a regular basis
7. The "top 3" themselves are not really that far ahead of the pack.
7. Bernard Brogan is feckin fantastic - never thought he would be that good when he came on the scene.
8. McConnell let his team down badly today in the final quarter. Brainless.
That is a good and fair summary. I was on the corner of the Davin and Cusack stands and had a 'side on' view of the penalty. What the photos above don't show is that McConnell 'drove through' his man. As Donnelly's said, the only question was how a man on a yellow card managed to get away without a second for that foul.
As to the Dublin changes, Bud should be declaring his Boden membership in making the case for Keaney. O'Gara is no butterfly and was not as good today as in each of the last two days but he did endless ploughing for Brogan - the type of selfless dirty work that Keaney would never do. When Keaney did come in he made bad decisions on the ball and did nothing to take the pressure off Brogan.
Dublin played this game at a very high pace and in the last ten minutes that caught up with them. McConnell's indiscretions were a result of a tired mind as much as anything else.
My reaction on the final whistle was that the best team lost but then factor in all the possession Cork had, the wides, the number of frees that Dublin conceded and that Cork came from 5 points down within the last 20/25 minutes and it is hard not to say that Cork deserved it.
In terms of the All Ireland, I think there is an awful amount of ramaish being written here about how either Cork or Dublin would / will win the final. For my money, literally, going into the semi finals these two teams were 3rd and 4th best of those left in the championship in terms of performances this year to date and that has to be the reference point for assessing their prospects. Granted Cork have experience and a great squad and having emerged from this test will likely be favourites but barely deserved.
It has nothing to do with my Boden membership, Keaney is a better footballer than O'Gara at the start of the game much less coming on as a sub. I dont know how you can say when Keaney came on he did not make an impression because he didn't have time to do so as the ball only came near him two times. He won a free and stuck it over out of that sequence. It appears to me the two Brogan brothers will only pass the ball to each other. If I was on the All-Stars selection panel and somebody played me a video of a forward on a team, two points down in an All-Ireland Semi Final and him ballooning the ball high into Hill 16 with no more time on the clock instead of passing the ball (for once) to a player knowing that the only way to win was with a goal then I would not be giving him an All-Star. The best team lost on the day and they lost because of stupid decisions like that and what was made on the sideline. Next year will be the same. And the year after.
No way I can agree with that Bud. . . Dublin were not the better team on the day. They had a better gameplan but the only Dub player you could argue played well was Brogan and the rest just tackled and hoofed the ball. Also on the Keaney thing you are right Keaney is twice the player O'Gara is no doubt but O'Gara is a ball winner and suits the system much more than Keaney. In fairness he should have come in earlier.
Anyway all told I'm glad the Dubs are not in the final as I don't like the way they play. Having said that if I were a Dublin fan I would be mighty proud of the honesty of effort and the commitment of the lads. At the end of the day they don't just have the talent but by god they gave it a lash and played to their strengths and for that they can't be faulted!
On the penalty, I felt there was definitely a grab by O'Neill on McConnells shoulder after the initial hit by McConnell, and he dragged him down on top of him. McConnells weird body position is testament to the fact that he was trying to stay on his feet I think.
However, the initial contact was a foul I reckon because he put his arms around O'Neill in a bear hug.
As for the game itself, I thought Cork were doing their best to throw it away. Their inside forward line was hiding, and was kicking abysmal wides, not all of them under pressure either. However, credit to them in the way they stayed going, and kept their composure. They are still not playing well, but at least they have found a way to win games like that.
I think Dublin tired. Cork are a strong team, and that amount of possession deficit means a lot of hard work. I think they just ran out of gas, and then the discipline went, as it often does when teams get tired. Silly frees become the easy option. That is the downside of the Gilroy plan, it really does require savage conditioning, and savage mental strength when your body starts to go. But it does make you a hard team to beat.
Bernard Brogan was brilliant for 65 minutes, but he too got tired as he galloped around Croke Park and really took the fight to Cork. O'Gara is like a new born foal when the ball is in his hand, and a two man inside line with himself and Brogan was always going to put an unreal amount of work on Brogan, because he was going to have to finish everything, O'Gara can't.
Very compelling game though, although frustrating at time (especially Cork), but I do think Kildare have the game to beat Cork, if they can get over Down themselves.
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on August 22, 2010, 07:10:29 PM
(http://www.sportsfile.com/winshare/watermarked-b/Library/SF626/453470.jpg)
This is the foul I think. McConnell's arms come around. However......
Quote
(http://www.sportsfile.com/winshare/watermarked-b/Library/SF626/453471.jpg)
The body positions here make me think O'Neill hooked his arm over McConnell's shoulder and pulled him down on top of him. I think McConnell got out foxed there by O'Neill.
Quote from: Aaron Boone on August 23, 2010, 04:34:29 AM
At least Dublin got a second chance in the championship, unlike Meath & the other 3 provincial winners. Some system >:(.
Meath did get a second chance. They were beaten by Louth and Kildare. :) :)
Quote from: Onlooker on August 23, 2010, 11:23:26 AM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on August 23, 2010, 04:34:29 AM
At least Dublin got a second chance in the championship, unlike Meath & the other 3 provincial winners. Some system >:(.
Meath did get a second chance. They were beaten by Louth and Kildare. :) :)
Meath (leaving aside the Louth stuff) and the other three mentioned got a trophy this year. If they weren't good enough to buildon that in their next game then why should we feel sorry for them.
Quote from: paddypastit on August 23, 2010, 11:47:38 AM
Meath (leaving aside the Louth stuff) and the other three mentioned got a trophy this year. If they weren't good enough to buildon that in their next game then why should we feel sorry for them.
No one's asking for pity Paddy, just parity.
It was a great day out in the end, thought we'd lost it, honest to God, was dreading every bit of the journey home and bias media coverage, thank God I didn't have to sit there and watch it on tv because Joe Brolly is something else. Anyway, due credit to Dublin they gave it everything, Cork were awful but the subs bench, experience and maybe fitness told in the end, wasn't crazy to say the least about some of the Dublin's players "tackling" but they gave it a good go, thankfully now Cork are in the final, and hopefully we'll finally bring back Sam to Cork. We'll be favs to bring it back and I think that this team deserves it when you look at the last few seasons, that said though, we've still that one last game to go and we can't play like that in the final.
And on another note, Cadogan for me deserves a mention, fair play to him, I guess playing dual isn't impossible as everyone said.
Cadogan did well when he came on. Should have started when Canty was obviously not right.
Why did he go down as if shot, holding his face, when O'Gara shouldered him?
Cork management seemed to want to lose this game and it was saved only by the bravery of the players, going man for man with the 2 forwards was suicide, a simple expediant of putting an extra man as a screen in front of Brogan would have cut out 50% of the ball going in, as it was Dubs scored from nearly every attack, whereas Cork had to work through 12 dublin backs. Dubs had 42% possetion and still scored 3 more than cork by the 65 minute.
Win or lose in the final Counhihan should depart.
Amusing hearing Dara "kennedy" repeatedly going on about colm o'neil going down easy for one of the frees. I dont remember thte sunday game ever touching the issue of going down easy when Gooch and other Kerry forwards were doing Jurgen Klinsmann impressions over the last few seasons. The anti Cork bias coming out of the sunday game is getting sickening, the langers can't wait to see us fail. Well F**k them.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 23, 2010, 12:00:38 PM
Quote from: paddypastit on August 23, 2010, 11:47:38 AM
Meath (leaving aside the Louth stuff) and the other three mentioned got a trophy this year. If they weren't good enough to buildon that in their next game then why should we feel sorry for them.
No one's asking for pity Paddy, just parity.
And if a provincial winner were to win a QF and then lose a semi should they get a second chance. Provincial winners have a trophy. That puts then ahead of at least 28 other counties - is that not enough for ye.
Stonewall penalty, McConnell basically barged into him, not even O'Driscoll with his core strength would have remained upright after that tackle. O'Neill made sure though the penalty was awarded by hooking his arm, otherwise I think we'd have seen McConnell on all fours above O'Neill...
Quote from: ONeill on August 22, 2010, 09:49:07 PM
Watching it again - Kerrigan wasn't far off MOTM.
Spot on, can't believe he wasn't even nominated by the panel :o He drove Cork on when they looked like the were slipping below the surface and if it wasn't for him I don't think Cork would have been capable of taking advantage of Dublin's indiscipline.
Gilroy improved Dublin no end this year but there's still room for more improvement. Can't believe he brought Bastick & Keaney on yesterday, Fennell is a better midfielder than McConnell and they need to find a target man who can point. Very disappointed in Cork, they've stumbled their way to an AI final and Counihan still doesn't know his best team. They are missing Miskella's driving runs from half back and will need a fully fit Canty for the final. They need Cadogan in the corner if he can play in there, horrible player though, always involved in something and then goes crying to the referee showing him his lip or taking to the ground. I think Kildare can take both teams left.
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 23, 2010, 11:08:08 AM
On the penalty, I felt there was definitely a grab by O'Neill on McConnells shoulder after the initial hit by McConnell, and he dragged him down on top of him. McConnells weird body position is testament to the fact that he was trying to stay on his feet I think.
However, the initial contact was a foul I reckon because he put his arms around O'Neill in a bear hug.
As for the game itself, I thought Cork were doing their best to throw it away. Their inside forward line was hiding, and was kicking abysmal wides, not all of them under pressure either. However, credit to them in the way they stayed going, and kept their composure. They are still not playing well, but at least they have found a way to win games like that.
I think Dublin tired. Cork are a strong team, and that amount of possession deficit means a lot of hard work. I think they just ran out of gas, and then the discipline went, as it often does when teams get tired. Silly frees become the easy option. That is the downside of the Gilroy plan, it really does require savage conditioning, and savage mental strength when your body starts to go. But it does make you a hard team to beat.
Bernard Brogan was brilliant for 65 minutes, but he too got tired as he galloped around Croke Park and really took the fight to Cork. O'Gara is like a new born foal when the ball is in his hand, and a two man inside line with himself and Brogan was always going to put an unreal amount of work on Brogan, because he was going to have to finish everything, O'Gara can't.
Very compelling game though, although frustrating at time (especially Cork), but I do think Kildare have the game to beat Cork, if they can get over Down themselves.
Fair enough. Maybe you are correct on it being a foul for the initial contact (it was but one that's usually not given in my book). I contend there is no way a penalty would have been given without O'Neill pulling McDonnell down on top of him so basically a foul by a forward clinched the penalty. I know if it was a man wearing a Sligo jersey the penalty wouldn't have been awarded. Anyway, i've gone on too much about this so I'll leave it.
I think Donnacha O'Connor was sure he had missed it when he kicked it.
Quote from: paddypastit on August 23, 2010, 01:39:56 PM
And if a provincial winner were to win a QF and then lose a semi should they get a second chance. Provincial winners have a trophy. That puts then ahead of at least 28 other counties - is that not enough for ye.
I've said enough about this on other threads, so to summarise: if not one of the 4 best teams in their provinces makes it through to the semis, either a) some teams don't give a toss about the Provincials, in which case they're worse than useless, or b) the Qualifiers' route is a distinct advantage.
Every team, bar the Provincial winners, every single team has one opportunity to lose,
just one. Is that a fair system, i.e., you're penalised for winning? The Quarter Finals were introduced to faciliate the re-entry of losers, yet even though the Provincial winners have to negotiate this extra hurdle they alone do not have the luxury of a loss. That's c**k-eyed.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 23, 2010, 02:04:46 PM
Quote from: paddypastit on August 23, 2010, 01:39:56 PM
And if a provincial winner were to win a QF and then lose a semi should they get a second chance. Provincial winners have a trophy. That puts then ahead of at least 28 other counties - is that not enough for ye.
I've said enough about this on other threads, so to summarise: if not one of the 4 best teams in their provinces makes it through to the semis, either a) some teams don't give a toss about the Provincials, in which case they're worse than useless, or b) the Qualifiers' route is a distinct advantage.
Every team, bar the Provincial winners, every single team has one opportunity to lose, just one. Is that a fair system, i.e., you're penalised for winning? The Quarter Finals were introduced to faciliate the re-entry of losers, yet even though the Provincial winners have to negotiate this extra hurdle they alone do not have the luxury of a loss. That's c**k-eyed.
Facilitate the *early* entry of Provincial losers into the All Ireland series.
Provincial winners have a bye all the way to the quarter final.
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 23, 2010, 02:10:20 PM
Facilitate the *early* entry of Provincial losers into the All Ireland series.
Provincial winners have a bye all the way to the quarter final.
It is
not a bye: what rounds do they skip? And why should the losers' route suddenly become the yardstick for what constitutes a 'bye' in your book? And I'll repeat: the Quarter Final is an
extra hurdle, some talk like it was always set in stone.
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 23, 2010, 11:08:08 AM
On the penalty, I felt there was definitely a grab by O'Neill on McConnells shoulder after the initial hit by McConnell, and he dragged him down on top of him. McConnells weird body position is testament to the fact that he was trying to stay on his feet I think.
However, the initial contact was a foul I reckon because he put his arms around O'Neill in a bear hug.
As for the game itself, I thought Cork were doing their best to throw it away. Their inside forward line was hiding, and was kicking abysmal wides, not all of them under pressure either. However, credit to them in the way they stayed going, and kept their composure. They are still not playing well, but at least they have found a way to win games like that.
I think Dublin tired. Cork are a strong team, and that amount of possession deficit means a lot of hard work. I think they just ran out of gas, and then the discipline went, as it often does when teams get tired. Silly frees become the easy option. That is the downside of the Gilroy plan, it really does require savage conditioning, and savage mental strength when your body starts to go. But it does make you a hard team to beat.
Bernard Brogan was brilliant for 65 minutes, but he too got tired as he galloped around Croke Park and really took the fight to Cork. O'Gara is like a new born foal when the ball is in his hand, and a two man inside line with himself and Brogan was always going to put an unreal amount of work on Brogan, because he was going to have to finish everything, O'Gara can't.
Very compelling game though, although frustrating at time (especially Cork), but I do think Kildare have the game to beat Cork, if they can get over Down themselves.
I had always been a huge fan of Goulding until last year's AI final. I watched him closely in the 2nd half in front of me on the Hill and he was hiding that day also. He seems to have gone backwards along with a number of other Cork lads. He's in an AI final and hopefully he makes up for his disappointing showing last year. I'd agree with a few other posters, Kerrigan showed himself to be a true leader, the run that resulted in an easy free for Cork showed real fight that Goulding and a few others could learn a lot from.
QuoteStonewall penalty, McConnell basically barged into him, not even O'Driscoll with his core strength would have remained upright after that tackle. O'Neill made sure though the penalty was awarded by hooking his arm, otherwise I think we'd have seen McConnell on all fours above O'Neill...
Def a penalty and the Dubs can't have any complaints. In fact their (the Dubs) goal would not have happened if the ref had given a stonewall free in to Cork, I think it was O'Leary that polaxed by one of those traditional Dublin late challenges.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 23, 2010, 02:15:43 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 23, 2010, 02:10:20 PM
Facilitate the *early* entry of Provincial losers into the All Ireland series.
Provincial winners have a bye all the way to the quarter final.
It is not a bye: what rounds do they skip? And why should the losers' route suddenly become the yardstick for what constitutes a 'bye' in your book? And I'll repeat: the Quarter Final is an extra hurdle, some talk like it was always set in stone.
They skip qualifer round 4. (Not to mention qualifer round 1,2 and 3).
Essentially, in my book, we have 5 different competitions, namely the 4 provincial championships, and the All Ireland series.
The All Ireland series begins in July or so, with the first round of the qualifiers.
Early losers in the provincial championships are penalised in the All Ireland series by making them tread a much longer road to get to Sam.
Provincial winners are granted a prize of the latest entry possible into the All Ireland Series, thus eliminating the amount of hurdles they have to cross to win Sam.
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 23, 2010, 02:20:40 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 23, 2010, 02:15:43 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 23, 2010, 02:10:20 PM
Facilitate the *early* entry of Provincial losers into the All Ireland series.
Provincial winners have a bye all the way to the quarter final.
It is not a bye: what rounds do they skip? And why should the losers' route suddenly become the yardstick for what constitutes a 'bye' in your book? And I'll repeat: the Quarter Final is an extra hurdle, some talk like it was always set in stone.
They skip qualifer round 4. (Not to mention qualifer round 1,2 and 3).
That's because they are
not qualifiers, ergo, it cannot be said to be a bye. Just because the Provincials are imperfect, i.e., variant number of teams per province, that does not mean to say the Qualifiers are the gold-standard. Far from it.
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 23, 2010, 02:24:31 PM
Essentially, in my book, we have 5 different competitions, namely the 4 provincial championships, and the All Ireland series.
The All Ireland series begins in July or so, with the first round of the qualifiers.
Early losers in the provincial championships are penalised in the All Ireland series by making them tread a much longer road to get to Sam.
Provincial winners are granted a prize of the latest entry possible into the All Ireland Series, thus eliminating the amount of hurdles they have to cross to win Sam.
As has been proven (and I know that Tyrone have exploited this as much than more than anyone else, that still doesn't make it right), late entry into the All-Ireland is not an advantage, and has been demonstrated too, having those extra hurldles is often no handicap, quite the reverse in fact, when it facilitates the build-up of momentum.
None of what you're saying would even mildy convince me; the elephant in the room is too quiet.
Do you see the Provincial championships and the All Ireland as the same competition? If you do, I see where you're coming from. If not, I can't.
Don't get hung up on the term 'Qualifiers'.
I think of them as All Ireland Series Round 1, 2, 3, 4, Quarter Final, Semi final, Final.
Hard luck to the Dubs I felt they were doing enough and then they entered nosebleed territory. I genuinely didnt think this Cork team was talented enough to win an all ireland but they are mighty close now. Gilrow has donje a superb job with Dublin but I suggest that iF any one of Ryan, Whelan and even Sherlock had came on with 20 minutes to go there Dublin would be looking at an all Ireland final today. The experience just wasnt there - it was the only department that failed Dublin.
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 23, 2010, 02:30:29 PM
Do you see the Provincial championships and the All Ireland as the same competition? If you do, I see where you're coming from. If not, I can't.
Yes, I do.
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 23, 2010, 02:30:29 PM
Don't get hung up on the term 'Qualifiers'.
I think of them as All Ireland Series Round 1, 2, 3, 4, Quarter Final, Semi final, Final.
If the Provincials were optional, then I'd agree with what you're saying. But they're not optional, a team has to lose to enter the Qualifiers, therefore it's not as simple as saying that that's the All Ireland Series.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 23, 2010, 02:27:44 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 23, 2010, 02:20:40 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 23, 2010, 02:15:43 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 23, 2010, 02:10:20 PM
Facilitate the *early* entry of Provincial losers into the All Ireland series.
Provincial winners have a bye all the way to the quarter final.
It is not a bye: what rounds do they skip? And why should the losers' route suddenly become the yardstick for what constitutes a 'bye' in your book? And I'll repeat: the Quarter Final is an extra hurdle, some talk like it was always set in stone.
They skip qualifer round 4. (Not to mention qualifer round 1,2 and 3).
That's because they are not qualifiers, ergo, it cannot be said to be a bye. Just because the Provincials are imperfect, i.e., variant number of teams per province, that does not mean to say the Qualifiers are the gold-standard. Far from it.
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 23, 2010, 02:24:31 PM
Essentially, in my book, we have 5 different competitions, namely the 4 provincial championships, and the All Ireland series.
The All Ireland series begins in July or so, with the first round of the qualifiers.
Early losers in the provincial championships are penalised in the All Ireland series by making them tread a much longer road to get to Sam.
Provincial winners are granted a prize of the latest entry possible into the All Ireland Series, thus eliminating the amount of hurdles they have to cross to win Sam.
As has been proven (and I know that Tyrone have exploited this as much than more than anyone else, that still doesn't make it right), late entry into the All-Ireland is not an advantage, and has been demonstrated to o, having those extra hurldles is often no handicap, quite the reverse in face, when it facilitates the build-up of momentum.
None of what you're saying would even mildy convince me; the elephant in the room is too quiet.
Not sure what the elephant in the room comment is referring to, but in terms of the set up of the competition, I think it is certainly the intention that winning your province will garner a reward, i.e. not playing extra games to reach the quarter final of the All Ireland.
In my opinion, the only teams that are seriously discommoded in the current system are the provincial losing finalists who have to pick themselves up 6 days later.
What are the stats for provincial winners in quarter finals since the inception of the qualifiers. Can I find them anywhere?
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 23, 2010, 02:34:31 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 23, 2010, 02:30:29 PM
Do you see the Provincial championships and the All Ireland as the same competition? If you do, I see where you're coming from. If not, I can't.
Yes, I do.
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 23, 2010, 02:30:29 PM
Don't get hung up on the term 'Qualifiers'.
I think of them as All Ireland Series Round 1, 2, 3, 4, Quarter Final, Semi final, Final.
If the Provincials were optional, then I'd agree with what you're saying. But they're not optional, a team has to lose to enter the Qualifiers, therefore it's not as simple as saying that that's the All Ireland Series.
With respect, I think it is that simple. If you are beaten in your province, you must enter the All Ireland Series 7 games (maybe) away from an All Ireland final.
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 23, 2010, 02:39:51 PM
With respect, I think it is that simple. If you are beaten in your province, you must enter the All Ireland Series 7 games (maybe) away from an All Ireland final.
OK AZ we can differ on that.
But regardless of all the conjecture one way or the other, Mickey Harte's suggestion is a simple but very effective way of circumventing the current anomaly (of only the Provincial Winners not being able to lose once like everyone else, and having to play an extra round to accommodate losers).
It involves
only two extra games in total, and makes it that bit more difficult for the Qualifiers (because regardless of what's said, the fact that the Qualifying route is relatively so successful is the proof), plus it gives every team the possibility of losing only once in the Qualifying portion of the Championship, with the knockout beginning only at the semi-final stage, as per the pre-Qualifying set-up.
Do we really want a competition where it pays to lose? Even looking at the last 3 years alone, 2010, 2009 & 2008, the All-Ireland was won by a loser.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 23, 2010, 02:49:55 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 23, 2010, 02:39:51 PM
With respect, I think it is that simple. If you are beaten in your province, you must enter the All Ireland Series 7 games (maybe) away from an All Ireland final.
OK AZ we can differ on that.
But regardless of all the conjecture one way or the other, Mickey Harte's suggestion is a simple but very effective way of circumventing the current anomaly (of only the Provincial Winners not being able to lose once like everyone else, and having to play an extra round to accommodate losers).
It involves only two extra games in total, and makes it that bit more difficult for the Qualifiers (because regardless of what's said, the fact that the Qualifying route is relatively so successful is the proof), plus it gives every team the possibility of losing only once in the Qualifying portion of the Championship, with the knockout beginning only at the semi-final stage, as per the pre-Qualifying set-up.
Do we really want a competition where it pays to lose? Even looking at the last 3 years alone, 2010, 2009 & 2008, the All-Ireland was won by a loser.
They didn't lose in the All Ireland series. ;)
I thought this was a thread about Corcaigh/Ath Cliath?
Yer man from Sraith Bán is off on his Micky Harte supporting crusade again ...can't take the fact that this was overwhelmingly bet out the gate at Congress. Remind you of Orangemen still trying to walk down Garvaghy :o
As for the yesterday's game ...the team with the best players won in the end although they'd sicken your ar*e looking at their rugby league type of sideways and backways walking pace style. However when they started putting ball in after O'Neill came on the frailties in the Dublin defence came into play .
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 23, 2010, 02:04:46 PM
Quote from: paddypastit on August 23, 2010, 01:39:56 PM
And if a provincial winner were to win a QF and then lose a semi should they get a second chance. Provincial winners have a trophy. That puts then ahead of at least 28 other counties - is that not enough for ye.
I've said enough about this on other threads, so to summarise: if not one of the 4 best teams in their provinces makes it through to the semis, either a) some teams don't give a toss about the Provincials, in which case they're worse than useless, or b) the Qualifiers' route is a distinct advantage.
"
if not one of the 4 best teams in their provinces makes it through to the semis" - either they are not as good as they were reputed to be or the didn't have the discipline, focus and mental strenght to get back to work after their provincial success. For that we should give them a second chance? In other words win a championship, don't bother too much about the next game because you know you will have a second chance and can regroup later - sorry that type of bread buttered on both sides approach doesn't wash
QuoteEvery team, bar the Provincial winners, every single team has one opportunity to lose, just one. Is that a fair system, i.e., you're penalised for winning? The Quarter Finals were introduced to faciliate the re-entry of losers, yet even though the Provincial winners have to negotiate this extra hurdle they alone do not have the luxury of a loss. That's c**k-eyed.
Every team bar the provincial winner has to this point in the year nothing to show for their efforts, and only in this pretty unusual year are we assured that one other will. It's pretty simple - success or second chance - you can't, and shouldn't, have both.
Quote...the team with the best players won in the end although they'd sicken your ar*e looking at their rugby league type of sideways and backways walking pace style. However when they started putting ball in after O'Neill came on the frailties in the Dublin defence came into play
I've seen this point made a few times but while Cork might have a tendancy to do it in any company, the reason they spent so much time doing that yesterday was because Dublin forced them to, as they had done Tyrone before. The reason Cork were into double figures in wides by early in the second half yesterday was because Dublin forced them to shoot from where they didn't want to and under pressure, as they had done to Tyrone before and the reason Cork eventually got past Dublin yesterday was precisely because of that over and back passing because when the chips were down they were good enough and smart enough to keep possession knowing that the chance or, increasingly as the game progressed, the the foul would come
Quote from: paddypastit on August 23, 2010, 10:42:54 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 23, 2010, 02:04:46 PM
Quote from: paddypastit on August 23, 2010, 01:39:56 PM
And if a provincial winner were to win a QF and then lose a semi should they get a second chance. Provincial winners have a trophy. That puts then ahead of at least 28 other counties - is that not enough for ye.
I've said enough about this on other threads, so to summarise: if not one of the 4 best teams in their provinces makes it through to the semis, either a) some teams don't give a toss about the Provincials, in which case they're worse than useless, or b) the Qualifiers' route is a distinct advantage.
"if not one of the 4 best teams in their provinces makes it through to the semis" - either they are not as good as they were reputed to be or the didn't have the discipline, focus and mental strenght to get back to work after their provincial success.
Come on, are you really saying that the regularity of the extra games in the Qualifiers does not play a part here (the stats don't back that assertion up)? I'll repeat: the Provincials are not an optional competition, they're an intrinsic part of the All-Ireland, and
always have been. The
prerequisite for the run in the Qualifiers is to lose a game; some prerequisite.
Quote from: paddypastit on August 23, 2010, 10:42:54 PM
QuoteEvery team, bar the Provincial winners, every single team has one opportunity to lose, just one. Is that a fair system, i.e., you're penalised for winning? The Quarter Finals were introduced to faciliate the re-entry of losers, yet even though the Provincial winners have to negotiate this extra hurdle they alone do not have the luxury of a loss. That's c**k-eyed.
Every team bar the provincial winner has to this point in the year nothing to show for their efforts, and only in this pretty unusual year are we assured that one other will. It's pretty simple - success or second chance - you can't, and shouldn't, have both.
"Success or second chance not both", but success is an All-Ireland ultimately, not a Provincal, so I'd agree with you, therefore it's currently c**k-eyed.
You claim that this year is pretty unusual, but it was an inevitability, and it will become more commonplace (unless the structure is tweaked) as more teams opt out of the Provincials by voluntarily losing, or at least not being particularly bothered about winning (it has already happened this year). Qualifiers have won the last three All-Irelands (including 2010), would you (and folk of a similar mindset) have predicted that in 2007, and are you happy about that? To me it stinks because it patently demonstrates that the most profitable path to SAM is the Qualifiers.
We're already a unique organisation, we don't need the further distinction of having our premier competition predisposed towards losing teams, because that's where we currently are.
Thought the Dubs were hard done by and so many soft frees given against them the last ten or fifteen minutes. I made a point last year about a Cork hurling match that Cork seemed to find it easier to get frees and the same applied yesterday. Didn't think it was a penalty either.
On another note I cannot understand why so many are anti-Dubs here (apart from the WUMs of course). Surely the stronger the GAA is in the capital city the stronger the GAA is overall.
Threw it way. Heartbroken again, not as bad as Mayo 06 but bad all the same. So close but yet so far ;)!
Best thing about GAA thats theres always next year ;)
With all due respect to Down and Kildare, two very good teams and good gaels, Cork will win it now.
Up the Dubs.
Quote from: The Aristocrat on August 24, 2010, 01:03:44 AM
Threw it way. Heartbroken again, not as bad as Mayo 06 but bad all the same. So close but yet so far ;)!
Best thing about GAA thats theres always next year ;)
With all due respect to Down and Kildare, two very good teams and good gaels, Cork will win it now.
Up the Dubs.
Not so sure about that. Probably down and definitely Kildare are better teams than Dublin and should be capable of producing a performance to beat cork in an all ireland final. That cork were the best team in the last 4 is of little doubt but haven't been playing. as the dubs showed, any of the 3 are capable of beating cork if they continue to play as they are with no gameplan and little direction. also, from what i've seen probably down and definitely kildare are fitter and more disciplined in the tackle than the dubs to do a number on cork.
Quote from: dowling on August 23, 2010, 11:20:47 PM
Thought the Dubs were hard done by and so many soft frees given against them the last ten or fifteen minutes. I made a point last year about a Cork hurling match that Cork seemed to find it easier to get frees and the same applied yesterday. Didn't think it was a penalty either.
Get yourself straight down to Specsavers right now if you didn't think it was a penalty!!
To be honest I thought Ross McConnell's strength held ONeill up and in his attempt to barge through ONeill lost his balance and the two of them went down. There was a lot worse out the field with no frees. Thought the Dubs could have had one or two towards the end but didn't get them. Would have given them an opportunity of a score or to take the sting out of Cork's play. I haven't seen a re run of the game but was there a Cork man yelling in the ref's face as the 'penalty' incident was happening?
Quote from: dowling on August 24, 2010, 03:45:42 PM
To be honest I thought Ross McConnell's strength held ONeill up and in his attempt to barge through ONeill lost his balance and the two of them went down. There was a lot worse out the field with no frees. Thought the Dubs could have had one or two towards the end but didn't get them. Would have given them an opportunity of a score or to take the sting out of Cork's play. I haven't seen a re run of the game but was there a Cork man yelling in the ref's face as the 'penalty' incident was happening?
O'Neil was trying to go around McConnell & McConnell just wrapped his arms around him and drove forward for reasons best known to him, stonewall penalty, was talking to loads of Dubs yesterday and they all agreed it was a definite pen...
FOSB, I haven't read this thread in its entirety or seen your comments about provincial vs. qualifiers route, but what I would like to know is how any Tyrone man can support Mickey Harte's position given that Tyrone have won two All-Irelands in the last five years through the back door.
Football bores me.
It's all about getting as close to goal as possible and then falling over and conning the referee into awarding a free.
Bernard Brogan should be presented with Sam now.
Cork and Maurice Deegan can feck off.
Quote from: dowling on August 24, 2010, 03:45:42 PM
To be honest I thought Ross McConnell's strength held ONeill up and in his attempt to barge through ONeill lost his balance and the two of them went down. There was a lot worse out the field with no frees. Thought the Dubs could have had one or two towards the end but didn't get them. Would have given them an opportunity of a score or to take the sting out of Cork's play. I haven't seen a re run of the game but was there a Cork man yelling in the ref's face as the 'penalty' incident was happening?
O.K. fair argument and sorry about the Specsavers comment - it was rude, I admit. I just thought that that the initial contact that McConnell made on O Neill was excessive and too high. The rules of tackling say that a player can only try to disposses the player in posession by using one hand. A fair shoulder to shoulder is the only other bodily cotact allowed- but I'm from Cork so maybe I'm biased!!!
The 'best team' lost this one - the penalty [definite pen] was the key moment as there was no way Cork were ever going to score a goal.
But Dublin fans should take heart as Dublin are much improved outfit and I think this team can win an all-Ireland in the next year or two. Definitely the best Dublin team I have watched since 1995.
Ah no wories about the specsavers Jas. It's the insults from those other boys - and they know who they are - that really hurt me.
As I said I haven't seen a replay yet but my inital thought was that OConnell had strong arms -outstretched - and ONeill couldn't get past. ONeill was the one to lose his balance causing the two of them to fall. I know there's a pic of OConnell's arms around ONeill but I'm guessing that was as they were starting to fall. Whether I'm right or wrong it wasn't the most 'blatant' foul ever and many a referee would have played on.
I might have a different view when I see it again.
Apart from that did you not think Cork got a couple of very soft frees near the end?
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 23, 2010, 11:03:35 PM
Quote from: paddypastit on August 23, 2010, 10:42:54 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 23, 2010, 02:04:46 PM
Quote from: paddypastit on August 23, 2010, 01:39:56 PM
And if a provincial winner were to win a QF and then lose a semi should they get a second chance. Provincial winners have a trophy. That puts then ahead of at least 28 other counties - is that not enough for ye.
I've said enough about this on other threads, so to summarise: if not one of the 4 best teams in their provinces makes it through to the semis, either a) some teams don't give a toss about the Provincials, in which case they're worse than useless, or b) the Qualifiers' route is a distinct advantage.
"if not one of the 4 best teams in their provinces makes it through to the semis" - either they are not as good as they were reputed to be or the didn't have the discipline, focus and mental strenght to get back to work after their provincial success.
Come on, are you really saying that the regularity of the extra games in the Qualifiers does not play a part here (the stats don't back that assertion up)? I'll repeat: the Provincials are not an optional competition, they're an intrinsic part of the All-Ireland, and always have been. The prerequisite for the run in the Qualifiers is to lose a game; some prerequisite.
Quote from: paddypastit on August 23, 2010, 10:42:54 PM
QuoteEvery team, bar the Provincial winners, every single team has one opportunity to lose, just one. Is that a fair system, i.e., you're penalised for winning? The Quarter Finals were introduced to faciliate the re-entry of losers, yet even though the Provincial winners have to negotiate this extra hurdle they alone do not have the luxury of a loss. That's c**k-eyed.
Every team bar the provincial winner has to this point in the year nothing to show for their efforts, and only in this pretty unusual year are we assured that one other will. It's pretty simple - success or second chance - you can't, and shouldn't, have both.
"Success or second chance not both", but success is an All-Ireland ultimately, not a Provincal, so I'd agree with you, therefore it's currently c**k-eyed.
You claim that this year is pretty unusual, but it was an inevitability, and it will become more commonplace (unless the structure is tweaked) as more teams opt out of the Provincials by voluntarily losing, or at least not being particularly bothered about winning (it has already happened this year). Qualifiers have won the last three All-Irelands (including 2010), would you (and folk of a similar mindset) have predicted that in 2007, and are you happy about that? To me it stinks because it patently demonstrates that the most profitable path to SAM is the Qualifiers.
We're already a unique organisation, we don't need the further distinction of having our premier competition predisposed towards losing teams, because that's where we currently are.
Im with FOSB on this one and think the qualifiers need tweaked or ended. This year 6 teams will have lost only once in the championship, however only one of them will be All Ireland champions and 5 of them will have been eliminated after their only loss. To me that is unfair. It was mentioned earlier that the Qualifiers represent a much longer path to Sam but they don't necessarily. For example if you get drawn in the Preliminary round in Ulster and lose you are 4 wins away from an All Ireland quarter final, if you win Ulster from the preliminary round you will also have won 4 games to reach the All Ireland quarters. That is without even considering the position in Munster.
Ive always liked Mickey Harte's proposition that the provincial winners play off against each other. The two winners go into the semi final of the All Ireland against each other the losers into the quarter finals of the qualifiers. The winner of the All Ireland semi then goes into the All Ireland final whilst the loser goes into the final of the qualifiers. The All Ireland final is then between the only unbeaten team left and the best of the qualifiers. Admittedly not an ideal plan but much better than we have now
Quote from: dowling on August 25, 2010, 12:05:52 AM
Apart from that did you not think Cork got a couple of very soft frees near the end?
Of course Cork were playing for frees in the final stages. O Neill, O Leary and Miskella all went down easily as far as I remember. They tended to throw themselves at the defender and then hit the floor during rather than as a result of the tackle. But could you blame them - they were five points down and as another poster pointed out they weren't likely to score a goal or five points from play so the obvious thing to do was to play for frees - it's called the survival instinct - do whatever is needed to stay alive.
I know it's not nice to see 'diving' becoming part of the game -but it's up to the powers that be to change the rules and start penalising deliberate dives, as they do in soccer.
I don't think it was a penalty either. McConnell has his arms stretch wide and O Neill ran into the shoulder/upper arm area which did not budge. This killed his momentum and i think he knew he was not going to get around so hooked an arm down McConnells back and dragged them both down. However, I don't really blame Deegan fro giving the penalty as it probably looked fairly clear cut at ground level. O Neill is quite cynical for a young fella.
He won another soft free going down after contact with Rory O Carroll soon after.
Was there ever a better illustration of how difficult a referee's job is? I thought it was one of the most obvious penalties I've ever seen, as I watched in real time. As far as I'm concerned, O'Connell charges towards him (i.e. he's not just standing his ground) and forces him backwards, at the same time wrapping his two arms around him - a perfect rugby tackle, really. I've since had the benefit of many replays at normal speed and in slow motion and have had the opportunity to consider others' interpretations and still have seen no reason to change my mind. Yet we have people, including some whose opinions I would respect, who have also seen it many times, in slow motion, who saw a range of different things, from a dive to a foul on McConnell to play on, nothing happened.
It really should make us think long and hard before criticising refereeing decisions made on the fly without the benefit of replays, slow motion, or time to consider.
Yep. I don't envy the referees job at all. But you can point out the mistakes without tearing strips off of him. McConnell's second yellow was deserved but the first one was very dubious. He barely touched Kerrigan who had made a great run up the sideline before falling over in the scoring zone. There was minimal contact. Definitely not a yellow card.
Quote from: jas376 on August 25, 2010, 08:57:19 PM
Quote from: dowling on August 25, 2010, 12:05:52 AM
Apart from that did you not think Cork got a couple of very soft frees near the end?
Of course Cork were playing for frees in the final stages. O Neill, O Leary and Miskella all went down easily as far as I remember. They tended to throw themselves at the defender and then hit the floor during rather than as a result of the tackle. But could you blame them - they were five points down and as another poster pointed out they weren't likely to score a goal or five points from play so the obvious thing to do was to play for frees - it's called the survival instinct - do whatever is needed to stay alive.
I know it's not nice to see 'diving' becoming part of the game -but it's up to the powers that be to change the rules and start penalising deliberate dives, as they do in soccer.
Unforunately the game can be quite cynical now but I thought the ref gave frees more esaily to Cork. These things happen but I'm not having a go at the ref. I haven't seen the game again yet but was there a Cork player in the ref's face at the time of the penalty?
Excellent post Hardy.
Most decisions are clearcut but some, and unfortunately some which can decide the game, aren't. Referees shouldn't be beaten up or villified over any decision even if it's a bad one.
Unforunately the game can be quite cynical now but I thought the ref gave frees more esaily to Cork.
Cork scored 1-7 from frees
Dublin scored 0-2 from frees (I think!)
That say's it all really and proves your point.
However, Dublin used a high risk strategy in this game - by playing the 'blanket defence' tactic Dublin invited the Cork players into Cork's own scoring zone and they weren't careful enough with their disciplne and so they conceded silly frees.
So, a warning to all teams: if you want to play blanket defence be careful with regard to discipline.
QuoteYet we have people, including some whose opinions I would respect, who have also seen it many times, in slow motion, who saw a range of different things, from a dive to a foul on McConnell to play on, nothing happened.
To me, when we can have such a range of opinions on this incident, from seasoned observers it suggests (to me) two rationales: (1) people see what they want to see, or (2) the game is becoming objectively ungovernable.
The Brogans were back in action last night in the Dublin SFC tho it seems unfair to have to play so soon after Sunday. Bernard doesn't look anything like he did, understandably enough, Alan was ok, Jayo hits a great pass or two, and Anthony Moyles of all people scored the vital score near the end of extra-time for Plunketts with the outside of his boot. Offaly's John Coughlan, Cavan's Nestie Smith and Louth's Darren Clarke are all on show here on this match report video as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-f7n5xkR-Q//
Quote from: Any craic on August 27, 2010, 04:28:43 PM
The Brogans were back in action last night in the Dublin SFC tho it seems unfair to have to play so soon after Sunday. Bernard doesn't look anything like he did, understandably enough, Alan was ok,
Most of the Cork players were also out on Wednesday night playing championship football with their clubs - very hard on them, in my opinion so soon after Sunday.. Luckily, they all came through uninjured. There are no more senior club games now until after the AI final. However, E. Cadogan is playing a senior hurling club championship game next week.
Watched it again last night and it didn't get any easier 2nd time around. I noticed one thing which I don't think has been mentioned. Some of Dublin's tackling was rash all right but the worst tackle of the day has gone unremarked.
Rory O Carroll travelling out of defence, handpassed the ball over Pearse O Neill's head and ran forward. O Neill halted O Carrolls's run with an elbow/forearm smash to the face, decking Rory and falling back himself.
Deegan was no more than 20ft from the incident and saw it perfectly but took no action. O Neill was on a yellow from the first half so would definitely have walked if the Ref was prepared to do his job and issue a yellow at the minimum (though the tackle probably warranted a straight red). O Carroll is too much of a warrior for his/Dublin's own good and jumped staright back up after the belt and so that probably eased Deegan's decision.
The incident happened in the 59th minute if anyone is interested in taking a look.
The Dubs were 3 points up at the time and with Cork down to 14 men they would have closed this game out I believe.
Re run of the match on TG4 now - what a day, what a game served up by 2 very committed sides.
Generally speaking it wasn't easy getting a free that day.