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Congratulations to Armagh on a deserved victory and winning the right to meet Monaghan.

Where is this game going to be played? not Clones?

Surely should be - for both teams. Athletic Grounds is too small and I can't see where else.

I'd imagine Clones

I think this will be a close game again with Monaghan shading it

The Grimley side show will be the meedja angle of course

On gaa.ie, all the other teams drawn first have a home fixture, except this game.
Maybe there is a neutral ground for the game involving the preliminary winner.

Quote from: Maguire01 on May 16, 2010, 06:31:43 PM
Surely should be - for both teams. Athletic Grounds is too small and I can't see where else.

Athletic Grounds is also closed for a year, no games on it this summer

As Armagh were away today, they have home advantage in the first round against Monaghan.....so the game will be in Clones then.

Clones hasn't been a bad place at all for Armagh in recent years

I heard last week that if Armagh beat Derry they would be playing Monaghan in Casement.

Why not Healy Pk.?

Armagh are considered the home team and, with the Athletic Grounds not available, they nominated Casement

St Tiernach's Pk is a 2nd home for Armagh, I am sure they would be more than happy playing there, if it suits the travelling Armagh faithful they would be ok with Clones, another location might dissuade the Farney faithful mind you

On a purely selfish basis it'd probably be in Armagh's interests to drag Monaghan to Newry or Belfast. Clones would seem the obvious venue though if they've nominated Casement I can understand why.

The Grimley factor will add a bit of extra spice. Monaghan have beaten us in the last 3 meetings, all very tight matches.

Quote from: Craigyhill Terror on May 16, 2010, 08:41:05 PM
Armagh are considered the home team and, with the Athletic Grounds not available, they nominated Casement

Brilliant!

What's the Grimley factor?


Casement is a shithole.
Armagh must be desperate.

Quote from: Main Street on May 16, 2010, 09:22:56 PM
What's the Grimley factor?

You're serious?

clones has a new pitch  only laid this spring

Quote from: Logan on May 16, 2010, 09:24:23 PM

Quote from: Main Street on May 16, 2010, 09:22:56 PM
What's the Grimley factor?

You're serious?

I'll give Main Street the benefit of the doubt. Grimley was part of the 2002 AI winning management team. He has since applied for manager of Armagh twice and was rejected both times. So no hard feelings.

Sure aren't Armagh on a roll these days?

Re match location,
The Marshes would do rightly, plenty of seats, space enough for a good crowd and in a handier location.

Quote from: hardstation on May 16, 2010, 09:59:42 PM
Why not bring it to Inniskeen? ::)

now you are being ridiculous hardstation, people won't be able to find the pitch  ;D

Quote from: hardstation on May 16, 2010, 09:59:42 PM
Why not bring it to Inniskeen? ::)

We've played Armagh there once ready this year.

Why is the Athletics Grounds closed again so soon?

Quote from: Main Street on May 16, 2010, 09:22:56 PM
What's the Grimley factor?


Casement is a shithole.
Armagh must be desperate.

The Grimley factor will be what the media will jump on and will fill a few pages on here but I'm looking forward to Stevie vs. Dessie Mone........Stevie has some unfinished business......will be worth the admission alone.
MS, what do you expect Armagh to do? Give you home advantage? Athletic Grounds closed for the erection of a new stand.

Quote from: mackers on May 16, 2010, 11:45:04 PM
MS, what do you expect Armagh to do? Give you home advantage?

Over the last 10 years Armagh have probably played more Championship games in Clones than Monaghan. They'd also probably bring 50% or more of the crowd. I'm not sure how much advantage Clones would be for Monaghan.

Personally Casement would be handy for me. Monaghan's last game there was v Derry in 2007 so a repeat result would suit fine.

Quote from: hardstation on May 16, 2010, 09:35:44 PM

Quote from: Cde on May 16, 2010, 09:34:51 PM
clones has a new pitch  only laid this spring

They've tried that before. A bog will always be a bog.

Yes in fairness they did try that before, but only did a half-arsed job............this time they have invested properly and done what should have been done years, they have invested in a Prunty Pitch..............and i have to say it really does look superb..........

Quote from: Maguire01 on May 16, 2010, 11:52:54 PM

Quote from: mackers on May 16, 2010, 11:45:04 PM
MS, what do you expect Armagh to do? Give you home advantage?

Over the last 10 years Armagh have probably played more Championship games in Clones than Monaghan. They'd also probably bring 50% or more of the crowd. I'm not sure how much advantage Clones would be for Monaghan.

Personally Casement would be handy for me. Monaghan's last game there was v Derry in 2007 so a repeat result would suit fine.

Obviously if Armagh were playing anybody other than Monaghan the game would be in Clones, I'd rather have Clones than Casement myself.  I was responding to MS saying Armagh must be desparate to take the game to Casement.

Quote from: mackers on May 16, 2010, 11:45:04 PM

Quote from: Main Street on May 16, 2010, 09:22:56 PM
What's the Grimley factor?


Casement is a shithole.
Armagh must be desperate.

MS, what do you expect Armagh to do? Give you home advantage? Athletic Grounds closed for the erection of a new stand.

Home advantage? I suggested Newry.  I forgot that Newry had gradually slipped into the sphere of Monaghan influence.

Quote from: Main Street on May 17, 2010, 10:06:14 AM

Quote from: mackers on May 16, 2010, 11:45:04 PM

Quote from: Main Street on May 16, 2010, 09:22:56 PM
What's the Grimley factor?


Casement is a shithole.
Armagh must be desperate.

MS, what do you expect Armagh to do? Give you home advantage? Athletic Grounds closed for the erection of a new stand.

Home advantage? I suggested Newry. I forgot that Newry had gradually slipped into the sphere of Monaghan influence.  

It hasn't. ::)
I responded to quote above, I didn't notice your suggestion of Newry. Is that OK?

Newry would be a traffic catastrophe.

Quote from: mackers on May 17, 2010, 10:27:22 AM

Quote from: Main Street on May 17, 2010, 10:06:14 AM

Quote from: mackers on May 16, 2010, 11:45:04 PM

Quote from: Main Street on May 16, 2010, 09:22:56 PM
What's the Grimley factor?


Casement is a shithole.
Armagh must be desperate.

MS, what do you expect Armagh to do? Give you home advantage? Athletic Grounds closed for the erection of a new stand.

Home advantage? I suggested Newry. I forgot that Newry had gradually slipped into the sphere of Monaghan influence.  

It hasn't. ::)
I responded to quote above, I didn't notice your suggestion of Newry. Is that OK?

It's okay by me
I don't know if it's okay for you, there are some lingering questions but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
I won't hold a grudge, mainly because my memory bank is overfilled with joy and peace.

Confirmed for Casement according to corn02.

Glad to see it taken away from Clones, Armagh have played there plenty but why give any advantage, no matter how miniscule, to the opposition.

Hard to see this game being anything other than a repeat of yesterday - attritional.  The open spaces of Casement will definitely suit both teams better than the likes of a tight Celtic park.  Maybe we'll see a bit more positive approach from Armagh, but getting a result is still the priority.

Worrying to listen to Ronan clarke on the bbc saying he hoped to be back "sometime during the championship", that sounded long-term to me.

Sorry to give Monaghan the kiss of death, but they were my pre-champ tip for Ulster.

Quote from: AFS on May 17, 2010, 11:46:50 AM
Confirmed for Casement according to corn02.

And what does that mean exactly?

Quote from: bennydorano on May 17, 2010, 12:44:38 PM
Glad to see it taken away from Clones, Armagh have played there plenty but why give any advantage, no matter how miniscule, to the opposition.

Hard to see this game being anything other than a repeat of yesterday - attritional.  The open spaces of Casement will definitely suit better both teams better than the likes of a tight Celtic park.  Maybe we'll see a bit more positive approach from Armagh, but getting a result is still the priority.

Worrying to listen to Ronan clarke on the bbc saying he hoped to be back "sometime during the championship", that sounded long-term to me.

Sorry to give Monaghan the kiss of death, but they were my pre-champ tip for Ulster.

  I don't mind Casement as a venue, not much going on outside the grounds though in terms of atmosphere. Great pitch IMHO. I live in Belfast but plann to be at home that weekend (outside Clones!!) and was hoping it'd be Clones/Armagh..  ::)

Armagh are just right to have it in casement. Wouldnt make much sense to leave no stone unturned in your preparations, then to agree to play it in the oppositions venue of choice. While Armagh might be comfortable enough in Clones, and bring plenty of support, if its in belfast they'll still bring plenty, while Monaghans will be reduced somewhat. Should be an entertaining game - monaghan had both highest scores for and against in nfl 1, didnt they?

Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on May 17, 2010, 01:18:48 PM

Quote from: AFS on May 17, 2010, 11:46:50 AM
Confirmed for Casement according to corn02.

And what does that mean exactly?

Eh, that corn02 was saying that Casement has been confirmed as the venue. He's usually reliable enough.

Quote from: AFS on May 17, 2010, 02:00:19 PM

Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on May 17, 2010, 01:18:48 PM

Quote from: AFS on May 17, 2010, 11:46:50 AM
Confirmed for Casement according to corn02.

And what does that mean exactly?

Eh, that corn02 was saying that Casement has been confirmed as the venue. He's usually reliable enough.

Dead on Sir. On thinking about it why would Armagh give Monaghan *any* advantage in what already will be a very tight game I'd imagine. I know that Armagh have done well in Clones over the last decade but the current crop wouldn't be too familiar there, i.e. they're a younger team. Should be a good one anyhow. Apart from last years desparately dull debacle there's been some good contests between us and good respect between both teams/counties over the years. Having worked in bars in Clones for years at match days I'd know as many Armagh supporters (if not more!) than Monaghan ones..

Quote from: haranguerer on May 17, 2010, 01:32:12 PM
Armagh are just right to have it in casement. Wouldnt make much sense to leave no stone unturned in your preparations, then to agree to play it in the oppositions venue of choice. While Armagh might be comfortable enough in Clones, and bring plenty of support, if its in belfast they'll still bring plenty, while Monaghans will be reduced somewhat. Should be an entertaining game - monaghan had both highest scores for and against in nfl 1, didnt they?

Pos Team P W L D F A Points
1 Maigh Eo 7 6 1 0 113 93 12
2 Corcaigh 7 5 2 0 120 113 10
3 Áth Cliath 7 5 2 0 104 93 10
4 Ciarraí 7 3 4 0 107 98 6
5 Gaillimh 7 3 4 0 118 128 6
6 Muineachán 7 2 5 0 116 127 4
7 Doire 7 2 5 0 100 111 4
8 Tír Eoghain 7 2 5 0 105 120 4

I really hope Armagh resist the temptation to throw Jamie Clarke in from the start for this one.  I'd like to see Henderson keep his place.  We've a dilemma in MF, Vernon clearly revels in the MF role moreso than any other position, Lavery has done little wrong thou.  I felt his injury yesterday ended up giving us a better balance.  Dyas (injury free) is good enough as well for a Hf slot although I reckon Mackin will stay for his physical presence, and if Lavery doesn't recover in time (looked like a hamstring to me yesterday) there's a spot available in defence again.

Hearty
A Mallon, donaghy, Shannon?
Duffy, CMCKeever, F MO
Cv & Toner
Dyas?, AK, Nippy
Mallon, Stevie, Henderson

I see that Enda McNulty was on the bench on Sunday sitting beside Martin O'Rouke. Would Martin be worth his place instead of Swift or Mackin?

Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on May 17, 2010, 01:21:41 PM

Quote from: bennydorano on May 17, 2010, 12:44:38 PM
Glad to see it taken away from Clones, Armagh have played there plenty but why give any advantage, no matter how miniscule, to the opposition.

Hard to see this game being anything other than a repeat of yesterday - attritional.  The open spaces of Casement will definitely suit better both teams better than the likes of a tight Celtic park.  Maybe we'll see a bit more positive approach from Armagh, but getting a result is still the priority.

Worrying to listen to Ronan clarke on the bbc saying he hoped to be back "sometime during the championship", that sounded long-term to me.

Sorry to give Monaghan the kiss of death, but they were my pre-champ tip for Ulster.

  I don't mind Casement as a venue, not much going on outside the grounds though in terms of atmosphere. Great pitch IMHO. I live in Belfast but plann to be at home that weekend (outside Clones!!) and was hoping it'd be Clones/Armagh..  ::)

At uni are ya?

Quote from: Orior on May 17, 2010, 09:21:39 PM
I see that Enda McNulty was on the bench on Sunday sitting beside Martin O'Rouke. Would Martin be worth his place instead of Swift or Mackin?

Lord preserve us!  NO!

Quote from: Orior on May 17, 2010, 09:21:39 PM
I see that Enda McNulty was on the bench on Sunday sitting beside Martin O'Rouke. Would Martin be worth his place instead of Swift or Mackin?

I think so if fit, though if Swift had his boots on yesterday.  He was in some decent shooting positions.

I'd play a fit Martin O'Rourke.

Martin O Rourke defintely if fit instead of Brian Mallon

Quote from: hobit hunter on May 17, 2010, 09:56:07 PM

Quote from: Orior on May 17, 2010, 09:21:39 PM
I see that Enda McNulty was on the bench on Sunday sitting beside Martin O'Rouke. Would Martin be worth his place instead of Swift or Mackin?

Lord preserve us!  NO!

I predict there will be quite a few yellows cards and if we are going to finish with 15 men on the pitch (which I doubt) then the manager will need to use all his substitutions.

Of course If push comes to the shove (which it will) then I'd prefer a win instead of having all 15 players on the pitch after 70 mins.

A lot of derry people seem to be of the opinion that Derry didn't close it out in the first half when they could or should have. (which I think is nonsense but anyway...)

One of the biggest turnarounds in the game IMO was Vernon moving to midfield. This has a two pronged effect on Armagh - 1. it strengthened their midfield as Vernon clearly revels there 2. whoever was moved onto Mark Lynch , not sure who it was, put the shackles on him.

One of the reasons Armagh got so comfortable second half was in the first half Derry's big threat was Mark Lynch. Vernon just didn't look comfortable there. Second half Lynch hardly touched leather. Who marked him - was it McKeever or the new guy who came on? (whose name escapes me)

Also I think Armagh are weak in the two WHF positions. While MOR has his flaws I would say there could be a good few arguments to put him on too...

Quote from: imtommygunn on May 17, 2010, 10:01:51 PM
A lot of derry people seem to be of the opinion that Derry didn't close it out in the first half when they could or should have. (which I think is nonsense but anyway...)

One of the biggest turnarounds in the game IMO was Vernon moving to midfield. This has a two pronged effect on Armagh - 1. it strengthened their midfield as Vernon clearly revels there 2. whoever was moved onto Mark Lynch , not sure who it was, put the shackles on him.

One of the reasons Armagh got so comfortable second half was in the first half Derry's big threat was Mark Lynch. Vernon just didn't look comfortable there. Second half Lynch hardly touched leather. Who marked him - was it McKeever or the new guy who came on? (whose name escapes me)
Also I think Armagh are weak in the two WHF positions. While MOR has his flaws I would say there could be a good few arguments to put him on too...

Vincie Martin.

Don't think that POR will start MOR...........doesn't strike as POR's type of player. Donal Murtagh stated earlier in the year that the management team wanted strong athletic players in the HF line and MOR doesn't fit the bill. I wouldn't like to see Swift in particular dumped just because of one sub standard performance.

Quote from: mackers on May 17, 2010, 10:46:02 PM

Quote from: imtommygunn on May 17, 2010, 10:01:51 PM
A lot of derry people seem to be of the opinion that Derry didn't close it out in the first half when they could or should have. (which I think is nonsense but anyway...)

One of the biggest turnarounds in the game IMO was Vernon moving to midfield. This has a two pronged effect on Armagh - 1. it strengthened their midfield as Vernon clearly revels there 2. whoever was moved onto Mark Lynch , not sure who it was, put the shackles on him.

One of the reasons Armagh got so comfortable second half was in the first half Derry's big threat was Mark Lynch. Vernon just didn't look comfortable there. Second half Lynch hardly touched leather. Who marked him - was it McKeever or the new guy who came on? (whose name escapes me)
Also I think Armagh are weak in the two WHF positions. While MOR has his flaws I would say there could be a good few arguments to put him on too...

Vincie Martin.

Don't think that POR will start MOR...........doesn't strike as POR's type of player. Donal Murtagh stated earlier in the year that the management team wanted strong athletic players in the HF line and MOR doesn't fit the bill. I wouldn't like to see Swift in particular dumped just because of one sub standard performance.

Swift didn't do much wrong.  If he had have took them 3 scores.  Thats what its all about.  At least got in the positions.

Quote from: Apple Crumble on May 18, 2010, 02:11:48 AM

Quote from: mackers on May 17, 2010, 10:46:02 PM

Quote from: imtommygunn on May 17, 2010, 10:01:51 PM
A lot of derry people seem to be of the opinion that Derry didn't close it out in the first half when they could or should have. (which I think is nonsense but anyway...)

One of the biggest turnarounds in the game IMO was Vernon moving to midfield. This has a two pronged effect on Armagh - 1. it strengthened their midfield as Vernon clearly revels there 2. whoever was moved onto Mark Lynch , not sure who it was, put the shackles on him.

One of the reasons Armagh got so comfortable second half was in the first half Derry's big threat was Mark Lynch. Vernon just didn't look comfortable there. Second half Lynch hardly touched leather. Who marked him - was it McKeever or the new guy who came on? (whose name escapes me)
Also I think Armagh are weak in the two WHF positions. While MOR has his flaws I would say there could be a good few arguments to put him on too...

Vincie Martin.

Don't think that POR will start MOR...........doesn't strike as POR's type of player. Donal Murtagh stated earlier in the year that the management team wanted strong athletic players in the HF line and MOR doesn't fit the bill. I wouldn't like to see Swift in particular dumped just because of one sub standard performance.

Swift didn't do much wrong.  If he had have took them 3 scores.  Thats what its all about.  At least got in the positions.

Think swift deserves to keep his place imo.  If Brian Mallons role is to hang around midfield and support there rather than get scores then I think MOR can do that role just as well if not better.  Henderson def deserves to keep his place, he won an awful lot of ball and frees and used it well most of the time.

as someone already said armagh have played alot of football in clones in the last 10 years but this group of armagh players haven,so a good call from armagh to take it out of there back yard on a plus side belfast is a lot handyer to get out of than clones

Dunno boys, for me, Brian Mallon has barely put a foot wrong this year and could be about to finally exploit the potential he was showing four or five years ago before the cruciate injury. He's been consistent, seems a lot stronger, comfortable on the ball, usually takes the sensible option and once he starts chipping over two or three per game, could be replacement for Marsden we've been waiting on. 

Quote from: Ulick on May 18, 2010, 10:13:55 AM
Dunno boys, for me, Brian Mallon has barely put a foot wrong this year and could be about to finally exploit the potential he was showing four or five years ago before the cruciate injury. He's been consistent, seems a lot stronger, comfortable on the ball, usually takes the sensible option and once he starts chipping over two or three per game, could be replacement for Marsden we've been waiting on. 

He wins a lot of break ball and works very hard, but he needs to be more effective going forward, which I think is what people are griping about.  I think that if he is given a specific role at no.10, like Marsden, with AK and Swift finishing off the HF line and push Vernon to the MF with Toner then that might create more balance in the team.  That is if Lavery is not fit. I don't think Mal Mackin is the answer as for all his work, there is very little finished product.  With everyone fit 8-15 would be Vernon, Toner, Mallon, AK, Swift, Henderson, R Clarke, McDonnell.  If Clarke is not fit, I would still be reluctant to start Jamie Clarke but it will be hard not to. 

Interesting how highly the IN rated Mallon's performance on Sunday, indicating that he was one of our main creative influences. I didn't see that myself, but maybe these are the things you miss when you're wound up and excited watching a game.

Wouldn't like to see Swift dropped, and doubt he will be anyway. He's been a real bright light during the league and the scores will come eventually.

Would perfer Mackin to drop out. He's a good worker and will put in a decent shift, but I don't think he has the guile of Martin O'Rourke or the footballing ability of Dyas. All depends on whether either of those are fully fit though.

If i see MOR or Mc Nulty anywhere near the field of play i think i will go just go home, 

i hope to God i dont see MOR on a pitch for Armagh. His biggest "strength" is allegedly break ball winning but it has been shown in the last match that Duffy, Mallon and Toner can win plenty (9 between them). His passing is erratic, shooting absolutely terrible and his temperament suspect. Not good enough and not necessary.

Enda was brilliant but is done.

Quote from: eireogatron on May 18, 2010, 11:22:46 AM
i hope to God i dont see MOR on a pitch for Armagh. His biggest "strength" is allegedly break ball winning but it has been shown in the last match that Duffy, Mallon and Toner can win plenty (9 between them). His passing is erratic, shooting absolutely terrible and his temperament suspect. Not good enough and not necessary.

Enda was brilliant but is done.

and he is a Yap

and Yes Enda is done, we have seen the best and the worse of enda

It is as plain as the nose on your face that Armagh do not have enough scoring forwards, so for Armagh to play Swift, Mal Mackin, MOR, and B Mallon on the same team is suicide.

For what it is worth, I would go for

             Hearty
A Mallon  Donaghy  V Martin
Duffy      McKeever Moriarty
       Charlie    Toner
Mackin   A Kernan  Swift
Forker   McDonnell  Henderson

with Jamie Clarke as an impact sub.  When big Clarkie comes back later in the summer, then we will have seen enough of Forker, Henderson & wee Clarke to see which of them will complete the full forward line. 
I would keep Mackin in the team to help Charles out in Midfield.  Lavery is unlucky, but you have to play Charlie in Midfield.  He is brilliant there, but average anywere else.

I'll take a stab at a team

1 P Hearty
2 A Mallon
3 B Donaghy
4 P Duffy/Finn Mo
5 K Dyas
6 K Mc Keever
7 Finn Mo/P Duffy
8 C Vernon
9 K Toner
10 B Mallon
11 A kernan
12 G Swift
13 S Forker
14 S Mc Donnell
15 R Henderson

Im assuming here J lavery is not fit

Subs: J Clarke, M Mackin, V Martin, M Mc Namee, Big Ronan Clarke,

Being realistic POR is not going to be using any of the other guys,

for me, if Lavery is not fit Vincie Martin staked a better claim to start against Monaghan than Dyas did. I could see Martin on Woods (as mentioned by someone)

Quote from: eireogatron on May 18, 2010, 12:48:47 PM
for me, if Lavery is not fit Vincie Martin staked a better claim to start against Monaghan than Dyas did. I could see Martin on Woods (as mentioned by someone)

f**k me, do you not remember the last time that was tried? Maybe being harsh on Martin here, but I think he got a fairly easy ride in the second half on Sunday. The game was passing the Derry forwards, and Lynch in particular, by at that stage. There may be merit playing him around the middle somewhere, but his lack of pace would be dangerous if he was deployed anywhere near the FB line, as someone has suggested.

I was impressed with some of Kernan's play against Derry, he is a skillful player.
Imo, the match saver for Armagh was McDonnell near the end of the first half, though I didn't notice him so much in the second half.
I have to admit, after 10 minutes, I was hoping Derry would steal the game as they would have been the more desired opponent, but early enough in second half, was resigned to looking at it as if this was Monaghan trying to break though and what would we do different.

Last time we met, the only memorable positive for me, apart from winning, was Dessie Mone's defending ;D and Finlay's sublime winning point in ET.

Quote from: eireogatron on May 18, 2010, 12:48:47 PM
for me, if Lavery is not fit Vincie Martin staked a better claim to start against Monaghan than Dyas did. I could see Martin on Woods (as mentioned by someone)

V Martin was not even mentioned in anyones teams or possible subs before the Derry game, now we have guys looking to start him beacuse he came on against Derry, whats the craic 

Quote from: Onion Bag on May 18, 2010, 02:41:14 PM

Quote from: eireogatron on May 18, 2010, 12:48:47 PM
for me, if Lavery is not fit Vincie Martin staked a better claim to start against Monaghan than Dyas did. I could see Martin on Woods (as mentioned by someone)

V Martin was not even mentioned in anyones teams or possible subs before the Derry game, now we have guys looking to start him beacuse he came on against Derry, whats the craic

horses for courses

Why is this gustavo lad spamming threads? Buck him out if he's gonna get up to this shite.

Quote from: Onion Bag on May 18, 2010, 12:35:36 PM
I'll take a stab at a team

1 P Hearty
2 A Mallon
3 B Donaghy
4 P Duffy/Finn Mo
5 K Dyas
6 K Mc Keever
7 Finn Mo/P Duffy
8 C Vernon
9 K Toner
10 B Mallon
11 A kernan
12 G Swift
13 S Forker
14 S Mc Donnell
15 R Henderson

Im assuming here J lavery is not fit

Subs: J Clarke, M Mackin, V Martin, M Mc Namee, Big Ronan Clarke,

Being realistic POR is not going to be using any of the other guys,

More or less what I would go with but I'd put Dyas in B Mallon's place. I wouldn't break up our HB line which is going well. I would go man for man and forget about C McKeever doing sweeper. We need to push further up the field, we played deeper against Derry because we were worried about the Bradleys. Monaghan only have Tommy Freeman in that sort of category and I would trust A Mallon to do a good job on him. Let's go out and attack Monaghan in a way we were doing in the league.
AK will hopefully kick on after Sunday. I think all he was missing is a bit of confidence as he is a class act. That allied to the fact that he is releasing the ball a bit quicker we should see better quality ball going into Henderson and McDonnell who will really want to prove a point. Big match for Stevie.

Quote from: Onion Bag on May 18, 2010, 02:41:14 PM

Quote from: eireogatron on May 18, 2010, 12:48:47 PM
for me, if Lavery is not fit Vincie Martin staked a better claim to start against Monaghan than Dyas did. I could see Martin on Woods (as mentioned by someone)

V Martin was not even mentioned in anyones teams or possible subs before the Derry game, now we have guys looking to start him beacuse he came on against Derry, whats the craic

well, he came on and marked Lynch who was doing the damage for Derry up until that point. I dont recall him touching the ball in the second half, so I would call that a fairly big clue that Martin is up to scratch at this level. If fellas do well, they should be rewarded should they not?

Far too much talk on this thread, game still an age away and lots may change before then.

Are Armagh planning a round of club championship matches before the next round.

Quote from: bingobus on May 18, 2010, 04:31:52 PM
Far too much talk on this thread, game still an age away and lots may change before then.

Are Armagh planning a round of club championship matches before the next round.

It'll die a death by the end of the week and reappear in the week before the game. Mostly Armagh posters still excited by our shock preliminary round win. :P
Armagh's club championship not due to start until August, no back door in ours so it can be run off fairly quickly.

Quoteno back door in ours so it can be run off fairly quickly.

They should just let Cross' play Pearse Ogs and be done with it.

Quote from: Onion Bag on May 18, 2010, 12:35:36 PM
I'll take a stab at a team

1 P Hearty
2 A Mallon
3 B Donaghy
4 P Duffy/Finn Mo
5 K Dyas
6 K Mc Keever
7 Finn Mo/P Duffy
8 C Vernon
9 K Toner
10 B Mallon
11 A kernan
12 G Swift
13 S Forker
14 S Mc Donnell
15 R Henderson

Im assuming here J lavery is not fit

Subs: J Clarke, M Mackin, V Martin, M Mc Namee, Big Ronan Clarke,

Being realistic POR is not going to be using any of the other guys,

What! You wouldnt play our two best wing backs, and bring Dyas back in who is yet unproven?

Quote from: Orior on May 18, 2010, 09:08:31 PM

Quote from: Onion Bag on May 18, 2010, 12:35:36 PM
I'll take a stab at a team

1 P Hearty
2 A Mallon
3 B Donaghy
4 P Duffy/Finn Mo
5 K Dyas
6 K Mc Keever
7 Finn Mo/P Duffy
8 C Vernon
9 K Toner
10 B Mallon
11 A kernan
12 G Swift
13 S Forker
14 S Mc Donnell
15 R Henderson

Im assuming here J lavery is not fit

Subs: J Clarke, M Mackin, V Martin, M Mc Namee, Big Ronan Clarke,

Being realistic POR is not going to be using any of the other guys,

What! You wouldnt play our two best wing backs, and bring Dyas back in who is yet unproven?

What 2 wing backs are you talking about, i have already included Finn Mo and Duffy,

and yes i would bring in Dyas to give him a chance to prove himself, are we not going to playhim becasue he has not played throughout the league through injury,
maybe he is doing it in training and challenge matches,

i have replaced Mal Mackin who i dont think is up to it

Quote from: eireogatron on May 18, 2010, 04:07:19 PM

Quote from: Onion Bag on May 18, 2010, 02:41:14 PM

Quote from: eireogatron on May 18, 2010, 12:48:47 PM
for me, if Lavery is not fit Vincie Martin staked a better claim to start against Monaghan than Dyas did. I could see Martin on Woods (as mentioned by someone)

V Martin was not even mentioned in anyones teams or possible subs before the Derry game, now we have guys looking to start him beacuse he came on against Derry, whats the craic

well, he came on and marked Lynch who was doing the damage for Derry up until that point. I dont recall him touching the ball in the second half, so I would call that a fairly big clue that Martin is up to scratch at this level. If fellas do well, they should be rewarded should they not?

To be fair Lynch was blowing out of his hole before the first half finished. He may have been carrying an injury even. Rory Woods destroyed Vince last year!!

With regards to the boys who have come back on the panel recently... I'm reliably informed that they are too far behind the rest of the panel to start a championship game, in terms of "McGurn work"!

Can't understand the negativity towards wee Brian either. I think he's playing very well. He's a lot stronger than he used to be... winning a lot of of ball, never quits running (He must be a nightmare to mark now) & his distribution is excellent.

Sorry, my point was that I believe (though I could be wrong) that you're only allowed to play one person at number 7. You listed our two best wing backs at number 7. Great idea, but not sure if we'll get away with it.

on the topic of Woods destroying V Martin. Last year Mone destroyed Stevie McDonnell so should we drop him too? ::)

Quote from: eireogatron on May 19, 2010, 09:39:40 AM
on the topic of Woods destroying V Martin. Last year Mone destroyed Stevie McDonnell so should we drop him too? ::)

I think you're in a minority of one with starting Martin, you're entitled to your opinion though.

Quote from: Orior on May 19, 2010, 09:09:52 AM
Sorry, my point was that I believe (though I could be wrong) that you're only allowed to play one person at number 7. You listed our two best wing backs at number 7. Great idea, but not sure if we'll get away with it.

I think it's obvious that Onion Bag has them both listed at CB too and that he would want to play one or other of them in each position.

fair enough mackers, but the only argument being put forward against it is that Woods gave him a bit of a roasting last year. By that logic then Stevie McDonnell should be worried about his place.

Other people are saying Dyas because "maybe he is doing it in training or challenge matches". Well, IMO Martin has definitely done it in the last championship match. Its very simplistic to say Lynch was knackered at half time. I'm not so sure about that, he ran the first half for Derry and did feck all when Martin was moved on to him.

As you say opinions are entitled to be voiced, but I was always taught that if you came on and took your chance you deserved to keep the jersey.

Quote from: eireogatron on May 19, 2010, 09:39:40 AM
on the topic of Woods destroying V Martin. Last year Mone destroyed Stevie McDonnell so should we drop him too? ::)

I think you know that's a bit of a silly comparison. McDonnell has an ever so slightly longer track record than Martin. Whatever way you spin it, the idea on putting a man on a player that took him for 4 points and had him replaced before half time just 15 months ago, is bonkers. I'd almost suspect you had forgotten about this previous encounter when you made the suggestion.

Paul Kernan hasn't been mentioned. Could he do a job on Woods?

Very worried about woods lads, very little to suggest he'll be starting for Monaghan.

Quote from: bingobus on May 19, 2010, 11:09:16 AM
Very worried about woods lads, very little to suggest he'll be starting for Monaghan.

Have a stab at your team.

He is generally worth a few points though!

Quote from: AFS on May 19, 2010, 10:44:28 AM

Quote from: eireogatron on May 19, 2010, 09:39:40 AM
on the topic of Woods destroying V Martin. Last year Mone destroyed Stevie McDonnell so should we drop him too? ::)

I think you know that's a bit of a silly comparison. McDonnell has an ever so slightly longer track record than Martin. Whatever way you spin it, the idea on putting a man on a player that took him for 4 points and had him replaced before half time just 15 months ago, is bonkers. I'd almost suspect you had forgotten about this previous encounter when you made the suggestion.

no AFS, I dont believe it is a silly comparison. 15 months ago McDonnell was handed a roasting and everyone thought he was finished, but hes come back to look like the player of old. Why should we judge Vincie Martin on 1 game of football 15 mths ago and not expect him to have improved especially after an extremely solid championship outing?? Also, 15 months is an eternity in football - especially when you consider 15 months ago marked the first year of inter county football for said player, so I'd have no worries on Martin starting for Armagh. Look at the difference in Finn Mo, Swift, Toner, Duffy etc this year compared to last year. Theres not too many players in this team playing to the same (low) standard as under the previous regime.

Quote from: AFS on May 19, 2010, 11:10:53 AM

Quote from: bingobus on May 19, 2010, 11:09:16 AM
Very worried about woods lads, very little to suggest he'll be starting for Monaghan.

Have a stab at your team.

Duffy
Dessie -JP- McArdle
McQuaid-Hughes-McAdam
Clerkin Lennon
Finaly - Gollogy - Malone
McManus- Corey-Freeman

Lennon or JP mightn't make it, if not Jap to midfield with possibly Woods or Kieran Hughes coming in. Walsh in for JP with Hughes going FB and McAdam in centre, walsh WHB.

Quote from: eireogatron on May 19, 2010, 11:23:35 AM

Quote from: AFS on May 19, 2010, 10:44:28 AM

Quote from: eireogatron on May 19, 2010, 09:39:40 AM
on the topic of Woods destroying V Martin. Last year Mone destroyed Stevie McDonnell so should we drop him too? ::)

I think you know that's a bit of a silly comparison. McDonnell has an ever so slightly longer track record than Martin. Whatever way you spin it, the idea on putting a man on a player that took him for 4 points and had him replaced before half time just 15 months ago, is bonkers. I'd almost suspect you had forgotten about this previous encounter when you made the suggestion.

no AFS, I dont believe it is a silly comparison. 15 months ago McDonnell was handed a roasting and everyone thought he was finished, but hes come back to look like the player of old. Why should we judge Vincie Martin on 1 game of football 15 mths ago and not expect him to have improved especially after an extremely solid championship outing?? Also, 15 months is an eternity in football - especially when you consider 15 months ago marked the first year of inter county football for said player, so I'd have no worries on Martin starting for Armagh. Look at the difference in Finn Mo, Swift, Toner, Duffy etc this year compared to last year. Theres not too many players in this team playing to the same (low) standard as under the previous regime.

McDonnell's display last year was out of character, he did not do the things he has proven time and time again that he is capable of. It was the result of a temporary lack of form that he has subsequently overcome. On the other hand, I see Martin's performance that day as suggestive of fundamental problems in his game that I doubt will ever be remedied, never mind in the space of just over a year. He simply couldn't cope with Woods' movement and acceleration over short distances. He was beaten to every ball. That game wasn't the only one in which he struggled when deployed in the FB line. I also see his use further out the field by the new management as a telling indicator that they may share my reservations about him in the last line of defense.

It seems Martin's 35 minute cameo at the weekend was enough to convince you of his ability. I'm not as optimistic. My feeling is that Derry's clueless forward play in the second half, along with Lynch's move from the HF line in to be isolated and ignored at FF, played a much bigger part in diminishing his influence than anything special from Martin.

Anyway, it seems all this talk about Woods could be academic if our Monaghan posters are to be believed.

Quote from: bingobus on May 19, 2010, 11:27:49 AM

Quote from: AFS on May 19, 2010, 11:10:53 AM

Quote from: bingobus on May 19, 2010, 11:09:16 AM
Very worried about woods lads, very little to suggest he'll be starting for Monaghan.

Have a stab at your team.

Duffy
Dessie -JP- McArdle
McQuaid-Hughes-McAdam
Clerkin Lennon
Finaly - Gollogy - Malone
McManus- Corey-Freeman

Lennon or JP mightn't make it, if not Jap to midfield with possibly Woods or Kieran Hughes coming in. Walsh in for JP with Hughes going FB and McAdam in centre, walsh WHB.

I'd have Walshe ahead of McAdam. Any word of Greenan?

If Monaghan line out like that, I'd like to see either of these match ups, depending on how defensive we want to go.

Quote from: thebandit on May 19, 2010, 12:03:59 PM

Quote from: bingobus on May 19, 2010, 11:27:49 AM

Quote from: AFS on May 19, 2010, 11:10:53 AM

Quote from: bingobus on May 19, 2010, 11:09:16 AM
Very worried about woods lads, very little to suggest he'll be starting for Monaghan.

Have a stab at your team.

Duffy
Dessie -JP- McArdle
McQuaid-Hughes-McAdam
Clerkin Lennon
Finaly - Gollogy - Malone
McManus- Corey-Freeman

Lennon or JP mightn't make it, if not Jap to midfield with possibly Woods or Kieran Hughes coming in. Walsh in for JP with Hughes going FB and McAdam in centre, walsh WHB.

I'd have Walshe ahead of McAdam. Any word of Greenan?

Think McAdam a bit more physical for the likes of Macken who could be played there. Very impressed with McAdam when he played against us this year, mind you he wasn't against much!

I doubt Greenan will make it, no football under his belt and would be a big risk for a championship debut without haven't kicked a ball in months, training no susbstitute for the real thing.

no AFS, I'm not convinced of his ability, I'm willing to give a fella a chance rather than hang him for a league performance well over a year ago.

Sure, scrap him from the panel and be done with it because apparently a good championship debut doesnt cut any mustard anymore, but start Dyas because he had a terrific league campaign when fit ???

I would start young walsh at wing half back. Hopefully JP fit so Hughes does not have to be wasted at FB. Any word on Lennon? He went off injured in a challenge against Louth a few weeks back. I would go with

            Duffy
Dessie      JP      Corey
Walsh    Hughes  McAdam (Maybe McQuaid if form is improved)
      Clerkin    Lennon
Finlay      Malone   Gollogly
McManus  Woods  Tommy

Quote from: Orior on May 19, 2010, 09:09:52 AM
Sorry, my point was that I believe (though I could be wrong) that you're only allowed to play one person at number 7. You listed our two best wing backs at number 7. Great idea, but not sure if we'll get away with it.

take look at my team again, Duffy and Finn Mo have both been included in my team, i was suggesting playing either or at 7 and the other @ 4,

Is Damien Freeman not in the frame?
Both K Hughes and Walshe look very good prospects.

Considering the Armagh defensive swarm, Vinny may well line out at ff and if Rory Woods is fit, a useful loose cannon battering ram option.
I'd say Monaghan's free taking accuracy is getting better and better and among the best in the country.
In a 50/50 game our 50 is looking good.

If JP isn't fit then I'd be hopeful Vinny will start full back. There's a chance if Woods isn't fit to start then Banty might feel like starting Vinny full-forward if he really wants a target man there. but I'd say he line out in the backs. Hughes at full-back is a huge waste as he's so dangerous attacking from the half-back line.

Young Walsh definately deserves to start in my opinion. I have to say, when I heard he was brought onto the panel I thought he'd spend the year on the bench getting used to the set-up but he's been first class at wing-back having been thrown in at the deep end in division one because of the missing players, he really settled in well. McAdam is another option alright and could well start too, he's come on leaps and bounds in the last couple of years.

Lenon is the main worry for me, any word on whether he'll be fit or not? If not that messes up the forwards, Finlay would be moved to midfield and we lose alot of his game in the forwards then. The main thing for me here is that the ball is delivered in quickly to Tommy and McManus, these lads are well capable of doing damage when the supply is right. If the ball is being passed around slowly the Armagh backs will be more than ready for it, especially if a sweeper is deployed again.

Quote from: eireogatron on May 19, 2010, 12:15:30 PM
no AFS, I'm not convinced of his ability, I'm willing to give a fella a chance rather than hang him for a league performance well over a year ago.

You're avoiding the issue. It wasn't just any league game, it was against the same opposition. Bottom line, there are other options with better track records to play man marking roles. There's no need to be taking chances on anyone.

Quote from: eireogatron on May 19, 2010, 12:15:30 PM
Sure, scrap him from the panel and be done with it because apparently a good championship debut doesnt cut any mustard anymore, but start Dyas because he had a terrific league campaign when fit ???

Losing the run of youself now. I've already stated that I can see him doing jobs around the middle for us this year. He was put on to play around the middle last Sunday, before Derry moved Lynch into FF. I simply have issues with his ability to play in the FB line.

I'm aware that every time I mention Martin it comes across negatively. I really don't intend for this to happen. I've seen a lot of him since he was 13 or 14, and I feel I know a bit about his strengths and weaknesses. For me he was always a hell of a lot better at midfield than FB, so if he's to fulfil whatever intercounty potential he has, I'd like to see him in the position to which he is best suited.

Quote from: Armaghgeddon on May 17, 2010, 09:45:29 PM

Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on May 17, 2010, 01:21:41 PM

Quote from: bennydorano on May 17, 2010, 12:44:38 PM
Glad to see it taken away from Clones, Armagh have played there plenty but why give any advantage, no matter how miniscule, to the opposition.

Hard to see this game being anything other than a repeat of yesterday - attritional.  The open spaces of Casement will definitely suit better both teams better than the likes of a tight Celtic park.  Maybe we'll see a bit more positive approach from Armagh, but getting a result is still the priority.

Worrying to listen to Ronan clarke on the bbc saying he hoped to be back "sometime during the championship", that sounded long-term to me.

Sorry to give Monaghan the kiss of death, but they were my pre-champ tip for Ulster.

  I don't mind Casement as a venue, not much going on outside the grounds though in terms of atmosphere. Great pitch IMHO. I live in Belfast but plan to be at home that weekend (outside Clones!!) and was hoping it'd be Clones/Armagh..  ::)

At uni are ya?

Does everyone that travels to their homestead at the weekend from whereever they live have to be at uni or what sort of question is that?  ::)

I'd actually go with the team, as named v Derry:

1 P Hearty
2 A Mallon
3 K Toner
4 B Donaghy
5 P Duffy
6 K Mc Keever
7 Finn Mo
8 C Vernon
9  J Lavery
10 M Mackin
11 A kernan
12 G Swift
13 B Mallon
14 S Mc Donnell
15 R Henderson

Quote from: AFS on May 19, 2010, 01:24:40 PM

Quote from: eireogatron on May 19, 2010, 12:15:30 PM
no AFS, I'm not convinced of his ability, I'm willing to give a fella a chance rather than hang him for a league performance well over a year ago.

You're avoiding the issue. It wasn't just any league game, it was against the same opposition. Bottom line, there are other options with better track records to play man marking roles. There's no need to be taking chances on anyone.

Quote from: eireogatron on May 19, 2010, 12:15:30 PM
Sure, scrap him from the panel and be done with it because apparently a good championship debut doesnt cut any mustard anymore, but start Dyas because he had a terrific league campaign when fit ???

Losing the run of youself now. I've already stated that I can see him doing jobs around the middle for us this year. He was put on to play around the middle last Sunday, before Derry moved Lynch into FF. I simply have issues with his ability to play in the FB line.

I'm aware that every time I mention Martin it comes across negatively. I really don't intend for this to happen. I've seen a lot of him since he was 13 or 14, and I feel I know a bit about his strengths and weaknesses. For me he was always a hell of a lot better at midfield than FB, so if he's to fulfil whatever intercounty potential he has, I'd like to see him in the position to which he is best suited.

i'm not avoiding the issue, i've addressed it. He marked the player once, well over a year ago when he was new to the county scene. You dont think he may have developed since then? Also, alot of the time Woods comes into the HF/midfield area in championship matches so it would appear that if this was the case it would suit Martin. Another alternative would be someone else to mark him and Martin to take up a different role within the 15, especially with the absentee being Lavery.

i hope dessie mone is playing as he will def get the line this time. have to say he,s well overrated and a dirty player into the bargain. revenge on the cards this year for stevie especially in casement. it will be a dog fight tho as its the only monaghan know.

afs theres no chance of shannon startin unless we have a load of injuries :o

Quote from: thewanderer on May 19, 2010, 02:48:21 PM
afs theres no chance of shannon startin unless we have a load of injuries :o

why  ?
I thought he may have a chance in the full back line with vernon moving to midfield/half forward line

Must say I was very very surprised to see Vincie Martin coming on against Derry given that we hadn't seen him since he managed 5 minutes before getting sent off against Laois. Ok he did reasonably well but Derry's lack of ideas in attack has to be taken into account. I really think we have better options both in defence and around the middle.

i think dyas will come into contention. but please not the experienced one :)

Quote from: Goats Do Shave on May 19, 2010, 02:28:42 PM
I'd actually go with the team, as named v Derry:

1 P Hearty
2 A Mallon
3 K Toner
4 B Donaghy
5 P Duffy
6 K Mc Keever
7 Finn Mo
8 C Vernon
9  J Lavery
10 M Mackin
11 A kernan
12 G Swift
13 B Mallon
14 S Mc Donnell
15 R Henderson

Agreed, but not Mackin. Use him for impact.

Quote from: AFS on May 19, 2010, 11:55:25 AM
I see Martin's performance that day as suggestive of fundamental problems in his game that I doubt will ever be remedied, never mind in the space of just over a year. He simply couldn't cope with Woods' movement and acceleration over short distances. He was beaten to every ball.

How slow is this guy?!
Woods would be known for his strength, delivery and shooting, but hardly his speed or agility!

Quote from: thewanderer on May 19, 2010, 02:44:33 PM
i hope dessie mone is playing as he will def get the line this time. have to say he,s well overrated and a dirty player into the bargain. revenge on the cards this year for stevie especially in casement. it will be a dog fight tho as its the only monaghan know.

It seems that some people are more concerned with settling scores than anything else. That could play right into Monaghan's hands. It's also just as likely to see red cards for Armagh if that strategy is followed. I'd imagine McDonnell and O'Rourke would have more sense than that.

As for Dessie being overrated: by who?

McDonnell can get his "revenge" by scoring 6 or 7 points from play.

Quote from: armaghniac on May 20, 2010, 01:02:33 AM
McDonnell can get his "revenge" by scoring 6 or 7 points from play.

  Agreed Armaghniac, and I'd expect that's the way Stevie would go about his business too. He's been around long enough and played against enough corner backs to know the terroirity. As someone said previously it was completely out of character and I'd agree with that having witnessed it first hand.

  I'm not expecting 'one for the purists' but do expect a tight hard game of football..

Quote from: Maguire01 on May 19, 2010, 05:43:54 PM

Quote from: thewanderer on May 19, 2010, 02:44:33 PM
i hope dessie mone is playing as he will def get the line this time. have to say he,s well overrated and a dirty player into the bargain. revenge on the cards this year for stevie especially in casement. it will be a dog fight tho as its the only monaghan know.

It seems that some people are more concerned with settling scores than anything else. That could play right into Monaghan's hands. It's also just as likely to see red cards for Armagh if that strategy is followed. I'd imagine McDonnell and O'Rourke would have more sense than that.

As for Dessie being overrated: by who?

obviously by banty who keeps picking him. he was dreadfull for clontiberet against st. galls never mind inter county.

Another illiterate mucksavage craves attention ;D

i actually think the fact this match in casement will make it an open enough affair

Quote from: armaghniac on May 20, 2010, 01:02:33 AM
McDonnell can get his "revenge" by scoring 6 or 7 points from play.

Exactly............nobody is suggesting that Stevie batters the head off Mone.........excellent article on Stevie in last week's Sunday Tribune and although he doesn't mention Dessie Mone by name we all know who he's talking about.

Quote from: mackers on May 20, 2010, 02:21:56 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on May 20, 2010, 01:02:33 AM
McDonnell can get his "revenge" by scoring 6 or 7 points from play.

Exactly............nobody is suggesting that Stevie batters the head off Mone.........excellent article on Stevie in last week's Sunday Tribune and although he doesn't mention Dessie Mone by name we all know who he's talking about.

New Wave

The desire is back – Stevie McDonnell tells Ewan MacKenna about recapturing it, how he's not finished with Croke Park yet, and shoving it down people's throats

First appointment of the day. You. Stevie McDonnell has had plenty of microphones stuck in front of him in the lead-up to this championship and today you're not even the only Sunday journalist scribbled into his diary. So, feeling part of a slightly polygamous relationship, you've come to a Dundalk business park good and early, wondering why he's been speaking to anyone who'll listen of late. But there's a problem. Faced with a wall of offices you're unsure exactly where to find him. You call, he comes to a window, tells you to look up and to the left then the other left. Finally you are met with an excitable wave and a beaming smile shining down from the third floor.

Through the doors and up the stairs, the 30-year-old is running around like a child who's washed down too many Skittles with too much coke. He's brilliantly hyper. Wants to know if you'd like a coffee, some sugar, more sugar, another coffee, biscuits, even whipping out a packet of buns. You turn down the majority of the buffet and when you finally get him into a chair he can't sit still. You're about to ask if he's alright when suddenly it all makes sense. All the quotes, all the giddiness, all the charm and all the menace and scores in this year's league? Eureka. Stevie McDonnell has got his mojo back. When Kieran McGeeney said he'd never seen a player to relish big games more, this is the character he was referring to.

If I'd come here a year ago though, you ask, would I have even gotten a glass of water?

"Possibly not," he laughs. "I'd have sat here trying to convince you everything was alright with me and with Armagh. I'd have said it in the hope of convincing myself that I still had what it took, that I wasn't just a waster on that panel. But you'd have seen right through it."

But if that's what you're doing now, it's impossible to see through.

"That's because I'm not," he enthuses. "Let me put it to you this way. Last year I played an awful lot of golf and pretended I was giving football my all. Last Saturday I had my first game of golf in seven months. I used to say my best games were in the league of 2005. Well, this league there have been patches of that form. I've been looking forward to this Derry match for ages knowing I'll be in great shape. Now I can't wait."

It's a feeling he thought was lost and gone forever. During last year's Ulster opener against Tyrone he could feel his enthusiasm dripping away with each bead of sweat as he realised both he and his new teammates didn't really believe they could win. That wasn't the way it used to be when he, McGrane, Geezer, McConville and the twins were convinced they could move mountains each Sunday. It got worse though. The war against Monaghan took its toll. As the game descended into farce he could take no more, lashed out and was sent off. In extra-time he tried to encourage those left on the battlefield but thought better, sat down and wondered why they'd listen to someone like him anyway.

"That was the lowest moment. But as a corner-forward I am always prepared to take a punch in the face or a dig in the ribs. However, I won't take what went on [that day]. Believe it or not Derry were playing them the following Saturday. The day after I met Fergal Doherty on the way back from the Leinster final and without me saying a thing he told me the same thing had happened [in their game].

"But on my part it maybe was a little frustration because the hunger wasn't there. I got pissed off and, with the experience I had, I should have been able to hold myself back. How did I feel walking off? I felt like shit. I knew straight away I'd let everyone down. I thought it was the end of me and the end of an era for Armagh. It's something that still hurts me, thinking I actually took the bait from someone like that. But if you look at the way the GAA is going, it's the forwards getting sent off but do you believe forwards go out to intimidate defenders?"

After that game he sat in the dressing room and started missing the players he'd grown up with. They would have known what to say to him and how to win out in a game like that. He remembered how he was away working in England when Paul McGrane said he could take no more of the intercounty stuff and how he found out through a text later that evening that there was none of the old brigade left but him. Last man standing. But barely.

"It was at times like after that Monaghan game that I'd wish I was still playing with all those great men. We'd meet up once a year and think back to the great matches and tough training and at least I can say every one of us is still good friends and always will be. I don't know how I would have got through life without them because they've all become some of my best friends. They've given me memories of a lifetime. But I guess I realised this year I didn't want just memories. I realised it was time to make myself a better player."

He used to do anything and everything to make himself a better player. He may have hit 9-13 in eight games leading up to the 2002 championship but, before it, Cathal O'Rourke called him over about his point-taking. McDonnell disagreed but gave in, stayed behind training session after training session as O'Rourke dropped balls in front of him and taught him to kick around the corner. That September he watched Oisín McConville goal but instead popped up for the winner. It was exactly the sort of point he'd practiced and it made every nerve and sinew tingle.

It's a feeling he crucially rediscovered in the same stadium last year. After failing to win a single championship game for the second time in three years he fronted up to his true feelings and realised he was living out his days like an ordinary schnook. He hadn't burnt out, he was just fading away. Then the strangest thing happened. After downing more than a few beers with his wife at the U2 concert in Croke Park in July he had a moment of clarity. He took a look around the stadium and asked if he was really finished with the place. The voices kept saying "No way. No way".

But that was only part of the comeback of one of the great corner-forwards. He wasn't going to continue to just fill space with his reputation and needed someone to remind him of how good he was. He met Paul Grimley one day and the two went for a coffee. He was blunt. Told Grimley the other players wanted him, he needed him and as they shook hands at the end he warned if Grimley didn't take the manager's job then his own career was over. A couple of weeks later his phone went off. The message read: 'Grimley's gone to Monaghan'.

"I thought that was it again. Who else could make me believe in myself? I hung around though and the players were asked for an opinion on the next manager. We put down John Rafferty, Donal Murtagh, Brian McAlindan and Peter Rafferty. But in case they weren't interested we put in three non-Armagh men. Sean Boylan, Paddy O'Rourke and Colm Coyle. Sean would have been my first choice but he was still with the international rules team. So I talked about Paddy to the lads. I'd worked with him and heard nothing but good things.

"When he got the job we all heard the negative comments about this Down man who wanted to put the final nail in Armagh's coffin a few years ago. But we had to give him a chance. And when we met in the Armagh City Hotel I knew I was coming back. He said he was 100 per cent committed to making Armagh a better team. The other thing I liked hearing was we'd be going out and expressing ourselves. A breath of fresh air."

The make-up of the backroom team also helped. A few years ago during an international rules trip, McDonnell was down the back of a bus in Perth having a chinwag with Benny Coulter and some of the Kerry and Tyrone lads. Mike McGurn came up in conversation and they all wondered what a county team would be like if the physical trainer had some real time with them. Now McDonnell knows. Despite his years, and despite just two 45-minute sessions a week, he's never felt in better shape. "The fun is back and we are a closer team than we have been in a long time. Things are starting to remind me of the old days."

Good old days like 2005 when McDonnell called Ryan McMenamin over for a drink at the All Stars with one question to ask. He was wondering why the Tyrone man hadn't given him hell in that year's semi. He was expecting a storm of abuse. Instead he got peace and quiet. McMenamin had a very good reason though. "Most players can give it but they can't take it. You can. It would have been a waste of time with you."

Turns out he'd taken it all through his career and not flinched once. In the 2007 league against Louth he'd taken ferocious abuse. Not from their fans but from his own. Then, late in the game, he picked up a McGrane pass and won the game. "My family were in the crowd and I guess people at games need to remember that. My family were unhappy and said that the Armagh fans had been spoiled and forgotten so quickly. I've scored many a goal but that one was one of the best. It not only shut up the Louth supporters but it shut up our own."

A year later he was again hearing abuse. The game was the Ulster final and McDonnell spent that Sunday listening to Fermanagh goalkeeper Ronan Gallagher filling his ears. He stayed quiet and his six points off Shane Goan earned a replay and Man of the Match. A week later when he goaled late on to secure the title, he let rip at Gallagher, screaming about his sisters who he'd seen pictured in a newspaper between games.

"I don't regret anything I said to him. You come up against certain people and a lot are shooting their mouth off but he never stopped. Funny that, because he's never proven himself as a player. In my opinion anyway. I think after the first game he realised it did no good then and his own teammates told him to shut the hell up. When I got the goal, that was my time to show that I was taking none of his shit. I enjoy scoring goals but scoring goals on keepers like Ronan Gallagher makes it even better. Like what has he ever done? Remind me?"

He's getting excited by the thought of days like those and he's getting excited by the thought of days like today as well. He doesn't hold back because he's Stevie McDonnell again and he doesn't need to. On the wall of his office a poster reads, "Vision. The best way to see the future is to create it". A year ago they were just hollow words. Today they could be his motto.

emackenna@tribune.ie

May 16, 2010

Great article, in fairness to Stevie he wasn't on his own in letting himself down that evening. It's up there with the Wexford match in 08 as the low point in following Armagh in the post 99 era.
Don't get me wrong, it wasn't losing to Monaghan, a team that I have a lot of respect for, it was the absolute rubbish that we played that evening. It has to be a huge motivation for this Armagh team going to Casement Park, the only Armagh player to come out of Clones that night having done himself justice was Brendan Donaghy, the rest have a chance of redemption, no more so than Stevie.

He doesn't hold back on Ronan Gallagher either.

Brilliant Article. Stevie Mc is back!!   ;D

Stevie is definitely in great form and long may it last.  I definitely fancy Armagh against Monaghan and would love to see a more free flowing, attacking football.
I would love to know the whole story on the Gallagher incident as Gallagher himself really plays it down.

I hope Armagh can at least make it to the Ulster Final, I will home and hoping to go to Croker and see my first Armagh match since 27th May 2007!!!!

I suppose the fact that Dessie was much the better player on the day, didn't help Stevie's mood.
His sending off didn't go any damage to Armagh in the game.

The misses that day by both teams were shocking. Certainly it was the worst footballing performance by Monaghan in recent times, Armagh were just   more worse than the worst Monaghan could manage.

really confident about this from an armagh perspective 
really feel we can put monaghan to the sword
armagh by 4

Quote from: Main Street on May 20, 2010, 06:51:43 PM
I suppose the fact that Dessie was much the better player on the day, didn't help Stevie's mood.
His sending off didn't go any damage to Armagh in the game.

The misses that day by both teams were shocking. Certainly it was the worst footballing performance by Monaghan in recent times, Armagh were just   more worse than the worst Monaghan could manage.

Couldn't disagree with you at all on that.

That said, Dessie's actions were out of order - and have been.

dessie is a kn**ker on the football field but i hope he plays this year as he will be put to the sword by stevie ;)

Dessie will love all this hatred and attention.

No doubt he'll do his talking on the field.......literally  ;)  ;D  ;D

Dessie doesn't give 2 fcuks about all thats being said about him, he will actually love it as it's like job done. He's a proper wind-up and uses every trick there is to put off his opponent, if he does that(like he did to Stevie last year), then he's achieved his aim. I've no doubt Stevie will be much better this year considering the form he's in and the motivation to put thiings right from last year, but Dessie will relish the challenge and I still have faith in him doing a job. He may dabble in the dark arts on the field but is still a fine footballer, no matter what some of ye say. Should be a right battle anyway!

Quote from: Schkite on May 21, 2010, 12:49:56 PM
Dessie doesn't give 2 fcuks about all thats being said about him, he will actually love it as it's like job done. He's a proper wind-up and uses every trick there is to put off his opponent, if he does that(like he did to Stevie last year), then he's achieved his aim. I've no doubt Stevie will be much better this year considering the form he's in and the motivation to put thiings right from last year, but Dessie will relish the challenge and I still have faith in him doing a job. He may dabble in the dark arts on the field but is still a fine footballer, no matter what some of ye say. Should be a right battle anyway!

Is that right Dessie :D Talking about patting yourself on the back...lol

Quote from: illdecide on May 21, 2010, 12:56:28 PM

Quote from: Schkite on May 21, 2010, 12:49:56 PM
Dessie doesn't give 2 fcuks about all thats being said about him, he will actually love it as it's like job done. He's a proper wind-up and uses every trick there is to put off his opponent, if he does that(like he did to Stevie last year), then he's achieved his aim. I've no doubt Stevie will be much better this year considering the form he's in and the motivation to put thiings right from last year, but Dessie will relish the challenge and I still have faith in him doing a job. He may dabble in the dark arts on the field but is still a fine footballer, no matter what some of ye say. Should be a right battle anyway!

Is that right Dessie :D Talking about patting yourself on the back...lol

  Unreal the amount of schoolyard bullshit talk going on here... Kettle, pot, black, greenhouse, stones etc. etc. If it's defmataion of character you're into then Ciaran McKeever's 'ethics' on the football field are questionble to say the least... Lets grow up a bit and get on with the game discussion rather than this nonsense..

I thought I was on the Hoganstand forum there for a minute..  ::)

Quote from: illdecide on May 21, 2010, 12:56:28 PM

Quote from: Schkite on May 21, 2010, 12:49:56 PM
Dessie doesn't give 2 fcuks about all thats being said about him, he will actually love it as it's like job done. He's a proper wind-up and uses every trick there is to put off his opponent, if he does that(like he did to Stevie last year), then he's achieved his aim. I've no doubt Stevie will be much better this year considering the form he's in and the motivation to put thiings right from last year, but Dessie will relish the challenge and I still have faith in him doing a job. He may dabble in the dark arts on the field but is still a fine footballer, no matter what some of ye say. Should be a right battle anyway!

Is that right Dessie :D Talking about patting yourself on the back...lol

I'm sticking up for a clubmate on a public forum where he's getting called all sorts, do you have an issue with that?

In the event of a Monaghan victory, I can imagine Dessie offering some words of consolation to Stevie,
'Dont lose the faith again Stevie, have a few jars and listen out for the voices inside your head'.

Don't be getting your knickers in a twist with me, i was only having a bit of tongue in cheek with ya about it. I couldn't give give a f**k about Dessie or any other Monaghan player for that matter, you rightly stick up for your team mate but take it out on the fellas who are slagging you about it not me.

I personally wouldn't insult a guy on the field slabbering to him but if i got the chance to take the middle out of him I'd do it with the blink of an eye and wouldn't think twice about it, you do what you think is necessary to win your dual with your opponent.

Quote from: illdecide on May 21, 2010, 04:43:47 PM
you do what you think is necessary to win your dual with your opponent.

dual?

surely you mean

(http://i34.tinypic.com/ezq5c7.jpg)

Aye that :D

Quote from: illdecide on May 21, 2010, 04:43:47 PM
Don't be getting your knickers in a twist with me, i was only having a bit of tongue in cheek with ya about it. I couldn't give give a f**k about Dessie or any other Monaghan player for that matter, you rightly stick up for your team mate but take it out on the fellas who are slagging you about it not me.

I personally wouldn't insult a guy on the field slabbering to him but if i got the chance to take the middle out of him I'd do it with the blink of an eye and wouldn't think twice about it, you do what you think is necessary to win your dual with your opponent.

No bother, my original post wasn't directed at you anyway.

Any word where the season ticket holders will be accomadated at Casement?
Havet seen any comments regarding Tyrone supporters tickets in Casement last Sunday...
I'm led to believe the game is not all ticket.

I reckon the Banty will go with tried and tested for this on i.e. McQuaid and D Freeman in the half-back line. Personally I'd like to see young Walshe get the nod there and possibly McAdam/K Hughes on the opposite flank with Hughes in the centre to pick up Aaron Kernan. If JP and Lennon are fit to go then selection will be much easier I reckon, with players starting in their best positions. My team would de:

1. S Duffy
2. D Mone
3. JP Mone
4. D McArdle (or Vinny Corey if McArdle not fit)
5. C Walshe/McQuaid
6. D Hughes
7. N McAdam/K Hughes
8. D Clerkin
9. O Lennon
10. D Malone
11. P Finlay
12. D Freeman/K Hughes
13. C McManus
14. Rory Woods/ V Corey
15. T Freeman

Subs (in no order):
C Hanratty, H McElroy, S Gollogly, and obviously any of the above 15 that are omitted from the starting line-up

  That's a fair oul sprinkling of youth and experience. I reckon we need a very mobile team that can run at the corwded Armah defense and I'd keep Woods/Corey inside with Tommy. I reckon McManus is better coming from the half-forward as he tends to be in the game more than when he's delpoyed in the corner. Andy Mallon will without doubt pick up Tommy Freeman and has had the measure of him in the past so we'll need the likes of McManus/Woods to be able to pick up scores i.e. have them close to goal!
 
  The young players (Walshe/K Hughes/Malone and Greenan until getting injured) gave a great account of themselves and must be pushing real hard to be a part of Banty's starting plans..

  Really lookin forward to this one I have to say...

Quote from: donelli on May 25, 2010, 12:51:45 PM
Any word where the season ticket holders will be accomadated at Casement?
Havet seen any comments regarding Tyrone supporters tickets in Casement last Sunday...
I'm led to believe the game is not all ticket.

  I doubt very much if it will be all-ticket. I was there on Sunday and there was c. 18k at it. Casment holds somewhere in the mid 20s I think so I can't see there being a capacity issue. Don't know about the season ticket holders but I'd imagine the choice would be the covered stand or the seated area along the A'town road end.

Quote from: donelli on May 25, 2010, 12:51:45 PM
Any word where the season ticket holders will be accomadated at Casement?
Havet seen any comments regarding Tyrone supporters tickets in Casement last Sunday...
I'm led to believe the game is not all ticket.

Season Ticket holders on Sunday were given the choice of either the uncovered seats or the terrace.  I went to the terrace and while it was relatively busy there was still plenty of space around.

Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on May 25, 2010, 12:55:57 PM

Quote from: donelli on May 25, 2010, 12:51:45 PM
Any word where the season ticket holders will be accomadated at Casement?
Havet seen any comments regarding Tyrone supporters tickets in Casement last Sunday...
I'm led to believe the game is not all ticket.

  I doubt very much if it will be all-ticket. I was there on Sunday and there was c. 18k at it. Casment holds somewhere in the mid 20s I think so I can't see there being a capacity issue. Don't know about the season ticket holders but I'd imagine the choice would be the covered stand or the seated area along the A'town road end.

Only seated, covered stand is all-ticket and tickets are very limited from the county board - €27 each.

Put it this way we won't get any worse than last years sh1te. I've a feeling this game might be a bit more open than people think and we could be in for a good game.

I think(hope) Armagh will win by 2pts

is ronan clarke any closer to fitness ?

Quote from: naka on May 27, 2010, 04:10:46 PM
is ronan clarke any closer to fitness ?

Not according to the Irish News earlier in the week, they claim he's still only training with the Physio and can't take part in full training with the squad.

I've been saying this for 2 months that his injury was worse than they claimed

Hearing that Monaghan may have a couple of injury worries as well.

Quote from: bingobus on May 27, 2010, 04:36:53 PM
Hearing that Monaghan may have a couple of injury worries as well.

Heard that one as well - Seamus "serious" McEnaney slipped and hur his back picking up the dictionary wondering what new words he could add, Paul "I should be Armagh manager - shouldn't I" Grimley has lost 6 stone and now looks like Rory Woods - so much so that he got a few slaps the other night for being a greedy c**t.
For all the talk about injuries etc... 2pm Sunday 6th June Casement when the teams line out - we'll know who's playing then.  By the end of the match Monaghan will be looking for another team to play as they slip out towards the back door.  We'll hear all about there a serious team, and we could have played better.  Lets hope theres no rain and a good game.  Armagh to win by 5.

I can't see Clark being involved at all in the Ulster campaign.  Its too long of a rehab process and people are normally advised to not be involved in the same sport for months.

Quote from: The Iceman on May 27, 2010, 09:31:06 PM
I can't see Clark being involved at all in the Ulster campaign.  Its too long of a rehab process and people are normally advised to not be involved in the same sport for months.

I think you're right Iceman, it's a pity though

Clark can stay fit with exercises that don't put strain on the Achilles (swimming, cycling) and also build up his upper body some more.  He could be back by the end of July and what an impact sub he could be if we are still in the mix.  I see it as a positive for the other lads on the team hungry for a place. With competition high for the jersey Clark should come back stronger than ever.....

yeah he can keep himself lean and keep the weight off but when it comes to sharpness and match fitness he'll be way off the pace. But as you say bed him in gradually 10 mins here and 15 there and the training should help too

Quote from: illdecide on May 28, 2010, 02:22:02 PM
yeah he can keep himself lean and keep the weight off but when it comes to sharpness and match fitness he'll be way off the pace. But as you say bed him in gradually 10 mins here and 15 there and the training should help too

That's what worries me. Even if he can shake off the injury, Clarke was always the type of player that needed a running start to get near top form. I don't know if he'd be that useful in the odd cameo.

Ah lads give over with the Ronan Clarke negativity.

(http://www.cinemaretro.com/uploads/kellyoddball.jpg)

Well if he remains injured then the bomber "illdecide" could get the call up by big Paddy (my mate)

Jaysus Tohill must be on somethin.. He just favoured Monaghan to beat Armagh on the Sunda Game.

Some sort of reverse psychology perhaps?

Not the craziest thing I've heard. If Monaghan get over this hurdle I think they'll win Ulster.

Bookies see it as fairly even - 10/11 Armagh 11/10 Monaghan

I have a slight fancy for us on the basis that we've lost the last 3 tight games agianst Moanghan in 2008 by a point or 2 in the last few minutes and, much to my own surprise, we appear to be a much better side under O'Rourke than we were under McDonnell. Were Clarke fit, I'd be fairly confident.

You'd have to expect the winners to make the Ulster final.

It'll be a dire game. Armagh, masters of the tackle, will turn over every ball, hit it long to McDonnell who'll not get a sniff as there'll be 11 players marking him. Then when Monaghan do manage to put 3 passes together they'll hit it long to Tommy who'll not get a sniff of it as he's surrounded by eight men cut out of Cavehill. To and fro. Dispossessions. Shoulders. Gulders. Aaron running bending backwards. McKeever red on 54 mins. Monaghan follow that with 2 reds.

Armagh 0-6
Monaghan 0-5

AET.

Quote from: ExiledGael on May 30, 2010, 11:14:47 PM
Not the craziest thing I've heard. If Monaghan get over this hurdle I think they'll win Ulster.

  That remains to be seen, but it's not like the big Swatragh man to favour us in any case...  ::)

Those who seem certain that this game will be a dour, low scoring war of attrition may be in for a surprise. The bigger pitch will suit Armagh and i expect us to win with several points to spare before going on to defeat Down in the Ulster final.

The bookies will be giving over even money on Armagh minus a point and i will be having a hefty wedge on that. Should pay for post match pints methinks..........

Quote from: ardchieftain on May 31, 2010, 12:06:23 AM
Those who seem certain that this game will be a dour, low scoring war of attrition may be in for a surprise. The bigger pitch will suit Armagh and i expect us to win with several points to spare before going on to defeat Down in the Ulster final.

The bookies will be giving over even money on Armagh minus a point and i will be having a hefty wedge on that. Should pay for post match pints methinks..........

Who paid for all the drink you consumed today?

QuoteThose who seem certain that this game will be a dour, low scoring war of attrition may be in for a surprise.

True, I think this year Armagh will shed the brand of slit-your-wrists fotball that has dogged them for a decade!

All i know is that i bet there is no way this game ends 15 v 15

What was so impressive about the training hardstation

I think the Armagh lads might be getting a little ahead of themselves.. (which I don't mind and don't think the Monaghan players will mind either..) You beat a one-dimensional Derry team and it's an Ulster title in the bag. Monaghan humped Derry in the league this year and have had the measure of Armagh in the past few years.

You may very well beat us this Sunda but let's keep the lid on eh...

Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on May 31, 2010, 10:56:23 AM
I think the Armagh lads might be getting a little ahead of themselves.. (which I don't mind and don't think the Monaghan players will mind either..) You beat a one-dimensional Derry team and it's an Ulster title in the bag. Monaghan humped Derry in the league this year and have had the measure of Armagh in the past few years.

You may very well beat us this Sunda but let's keep the lid on eh...

Really?? Some cub runs off with himself in his second post about beating Monaghan by a rake of points and all of a sudden the Armagh supporters are getting ahead of themselves?? Anybody with a titter of wit knows that this will be a close game. I hope that we play a much more attack minded game against Monaghan, push up the field and gave a Monaghan defence that leaked the second highest total in the First Division a tough time.
I'm sure that Monaghan players and supporters fancy their chances also but I wouldn't accuse them of getting ahead of themselves because of that!!
Think TAM is right that the team that wins on Sunday will fancy their chances against Fermanagh and Cavan.......do you think he's wrong?

True enough, sounds more like Dutch courage from one individual, rather than a rampant delusion.

QuoteThink TAM is right that the team that wins on Sunday will fancy their chances against Fermanagh and Cavan.......do you think he's wrong?

Is that who the winners play?

Quote from: mackers on May 31, 2010, 11:09:59 AM

Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on May 31, 2010, 10:56:23 AM
I think the Armagh lads might be getting a little ahead of themselves.. (which I don't mind and don't think the Monaghan players will mind either..) You beat a one-dimensional Derry team and it's an Ulster title in the bag. Monaghan humped Derry in the league this year and have had the measure of Armagh in the past few years.

You may very well beat us this Sunda but let's keep the lid on eh...

Really?? Some cub runs off with himself in his second post about beating Monaghan by a rake of points and all of a sudden the Armagh supporters are getting ahead of themselves?? Anybody with a titter of wit knows that this will be a close game. I hope that we play a much more attack minded game against Monaghan, push up the field and gave a Monaghan defence that leaked the second highest total in the First Division a tough time.
I'm sure that Monaghan players and supporters fancy their chances also but I wouldn't accuse them of getting ahead of themselves because of that!!
Think TAM is right that the team that wins on Sunday will fancy their chances against Fermanagh and Cavan.......do you think he's wrong?

Ayh, I should have quoted the cub alright. It's hard to bate kickstartin the debate though and gettin her revved up, you'd have to admit...

I won't be that surpisred if Armagh beat us (see above quote) but as you say it'll be close... We've a fair idea what Armagh team will line out so it depends on what Monaghan team turn up, excuse the overused cliche. If Eoin Lennon is fit and sharp it'll be a massive help around the middle allowing Finlay to push up the field wehere he works best IMHO. Our wing backs I'm concerned.. I reckon he might go with D Freemand and McQuaid both of whome haven't played much this year. He might give champinship debuts to Neil McAdam and Colin Walshe. I'd rather see this as they'll both have to track P Duffy and Finn Mo. McQuaid and Freeman wouldn't be the most defensive half-backs.

  I can't see anyone other than Dessie man-marking Stevie and the jury is out big time on this pairing... He might double up on McDonald but that's a risky strtegy also with an attack minded Armagh. Dessie could get sent off before half-time or he could keep Stevie quiet, you never know what you're gonna get. I've no doubt Andy Mallon will pick up Tommy so we'll need three natural forwards.. McManus, Woods and Freeman would be my pick.

  Mouth-watering...

Quote from: Main Street on May 31, 2010, 11:14:02 AM
True enough, sounds more like Dutch courage from one individual, rather than a rampant delusion.

QuoteThink TAM is right that the team that wins on Sunday will fancy their chances against Fermanagh and Cavan.......do you think he's wrong?

Is that who the winners play?

Yeah, remaing fixtures as follows;

Date: Sunday 6th Jun 2010
Ulster GAA Football Senior Championship Quarter Final 2 00 PM Casement Park Ard Mhacha  --- v  Muineachán  ---

Date: Saturday 12th Jun 2010
Ulster GAA Football Senior Championship Quarter Final 5 15 PM Kingspan Breffni Pk An Cabhán  --- v  Fear Manach  ---

Date: Saturday 19th Jun 2010
Ulster GAA Football Senior Championship Semi Final 5 15 PM TBC Tír Eoghain  --- v  An Dun  ---

Date: Sunday 27th Jun 2010
Ulster GAA Football Senior Championship Semi Final 3 30 PM  An Cabhán / Fear Manach  --- v  Muineachán / Ard Mhacha  ---

Date: Sunday 18th Jul 2010
Ulster GAA Football Senior Championship Final 2 00 PM  Semi Final 1 Winner  --- v  Semi Final 2 Winner  ---

I'd be disappointed if both McQuaid and Damien Freeman come back into half back line. While McQuaid has a case and has by all accounts never been in better form for Tyholland and looks in super shape, Damien looked off the pace last year and seeing him for Maghercloone this year he has looked off the pace even at club level.

It would also give a bad message to players who busted themselves in the league and then find themselves on the outside now for the big games. There is prob one opening in the half forward line and I'd not be surpised if Damien lines out there and drops back as the extra man at the back, a depressing feature of gaelic football at the minute.

Any season ticket holders receive any communication re this game yet?

We had to get orders in for additional tickets by the Monday evening for the Derry v Armagh game, yet this week I haven't heard a dickie bird.

Am i ' the cub ' you speak of ? If so, thank you, it's been a long time since i was called that ! And, for the record, my last post was not alcohol induced.

My post may have seemed arrogant in some regard but at the end of the day it's only my opinion and we'll see just how accurate it was as the summer progresses.
I'm disappointed that ' the wee dig ' i used wasn't latched upon by the person it was directed at.

Anyway, hardstation and lemallon, in regard to Armagh's training i have heard glowing reports. My cousin has watched every training session at Callan Park since they started training there.  He says that Armagh haven't trained with such intensity or looked so sharp since Paul Grimley was last involved. He also mentions regularly that the differnce between this and the last regime's training methods are mindblowing.

In fairness lads, Re this training, I'd say everyone on here could talk of been involved with teams where training has been super, positive, sharp etc etc and its failed to materialise on the day. Alot of the time it does and its a great start but at this level, I am sure both teams will be flying in training, in fact there is probably 20 odd counties "flying " in training at the minute.

All will be told on Sunday.

Normally I'm Mr Pessimistic, on this one I'm not sure what to expect, think I can see Armagh winning. We've the beneift of the Derry game behind us and I don't think the benefit of that can be underestimated, there's nothing like a good hard Championship match to bring you on a bit.

I hope we try to lay the expansive game that looked so promising through the league, but winning is still the priority. We probably will play a sweeper but if played correctly it could be the launchpad for attacks as well as serving it's primary defensive role.

Can't see too many changes, hopefully Nippy will keep his place and I also hope we resist the temptation to through Jamie clarke on from the start. Brian Mallon has to start for me, it was only when I re-watched the Derry game that I began to appreciate his input in getting the dirty ball, it's not glamorous but is effective. Henderson would be unlucky to miss out,but he started the Galway game in Clonmore which might suggest he was sort of on trial.

Any word on Lavery? I assume it was his hamstring, if it was bad he could be risky to start. We have a better balance with Vernon and Toner imo and I hope we start that way. I expect Hughes to mark Vernon wherever CV plays. If Lavery's out there's a place in defence available, probably will be Shannon although he must be looking over his shoulder at Paul McKeown if the challenge game v Galway is anything to go by. Dyas could be in there with a big shout too.

It will be tight.

Quote from: Smokin Joe on May 31, 2010, 04:11:31 PM
Any season ticket holders receive any communication re this game yet?

We had to get orders in for additional tickets by the Monday evening for the Derry v Armagh game, yet this week I haven't heard a dickie bird.

No word yet Joe - strange ....

Quote from: bingobus on May 31, 2010, 04:51:48 PM
In fairness lads, Re this training, I'd say everyone on here could talk of been involved with teams where training has been super, positive, sharp etc etc and its failed to materialise on the day. Alot of the time it does and its a great start but at this level, I am sure both teams will be flying in training, in fact there is probably 20 odd counties "flying " in training at the minute.

All will be told on Sunday.

Not too often you hear of someone seeing a bad training session before a championship game

(http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab56/declanrice/037.jpg)

Armagh played a cracker wee 12 a side match in the sun in Casement yesterday after the Minor Hurlers beat Derry.

(http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab56/declanrice/034.jpg)

Quote from: drici on May 31, 2010, 11:14:32 PM
(http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab56/declanrice/034.jpg)

Is there a high-speed pump for a different kind of liquid in that yoke Drici??  :o

Ha!

The cow licking its nose is just after eating part of "Adrian McKeever" leaving the name as "an McKeever"

Lads, you are completely missing my point in regard to the training.

Quote from: Orior on May 31, 2010, 11:39:21 PM
Ha!

The cow licking its nose is just after eating part of "Adrian McKeever" leaving the name as "an McKeever"

I thought it was 'Ciaran McKeever' but they didn't put his full name on it in case he chased the cow away..

Tickets, whats the story lads, am i right in saying that it is all ticket into the stand, and the terraces are 'pay at the gate'

Prices?

Quote from: ardchieftain on May 31, 2010, 12:06:23 AM
Those who seem certain that this game will be a dour, low scoring war of attrition may be in for a surprise. The bigger pitch will suit Armagh and i expect us to win with several points to spare before going on to defeat Down in the Ulster final.

The bookies will be giving over even money on Armagh minus a point and i will be having a hefty wedge on that. Should pay for post match pints methinks..........

What bigger pitch? bigger than Abbey Park (yes). People keep talking about the wide open spaces of Croke Park and the bigger pitch at Casement and the extra space the lads will have...WTF. could someone check out the pitch dimensions first before posting, 145m x 90m is the max size of a pitch and 90% of the intercounty pitches are that size. I dunno if it's the terracing or the stands that make the pitch look bigger but it's not, it's the same fecking size.

Rant over...On the game itself i wouldn't rule out a draw but i'm hopeful of a 1pt win for Armagh (i'll be surprised if either team wins by more that a point ot two)

Quote from: Onion Bag on June 01, 2010, 09:29:50 AM
Tickets, whats the story lads, am i right in saying that it is all ticket into the stand, and the terraces are 'pay at the gate'

Prices?

Yes Onion, main stand is all ticket and everywhere else is pay in at the gate...(dunno the prices myself)

Quote from: illdecide on June 01, 2010, 09:33:59 AM

Quote from: Onion Bag on June 01, 2010, 09:29:50 AM
Tickets, whats the story lads, am i right in saying that it is all ticket into the stand, and the terraces are 'pay at the gate'

Prices?

Yes Onion, main stand is all ticket and everywhere else is pay in at the gate...(dunno the prices myself)

Cheers lad

(http://ulster.gaa.ie/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/armagh-monaghan-usfc-2010.jpg)

Sunday June 6th 2010

Ulster Senior Football Championship Quarter Final
Armagh v Monaghan, Throw In 2.00pm at Casement Park, Belfast

Ulster Ladies Senior Football Championship Round 1
Tyrone v Monaghan, Throw In 12.00pm at Casement Park, Belfast

Ticketing:

This is NOT an all-ticket event. Patrons can pay into the Open Seating and Terrace at the gate.
Tickets are available through Clubs and County Boards.

Ticket Prices:
Terrace €15 / £13
Open Seating and access to Hamburger van €25 / £21
Covered Stand €27 / £23

Concessions:
OAP Terrace €10 / £9
OAP Open Seating €15 / £13
U16s free into Open seating and Terrace

why have the various councils moved the minor matches out from preceding the senior games. I thought the whole point was to give the young lads a decent stage to showcase their talents???

Quote from: BerfArmagh on June 01, 2010, 10:30:15 AM
why have the various councils moved the minor matches out from preceding the senior games. I thought the whole point was to give the young lads a decent stage to showcase their talents???

Think its something to do with Exams at this time of year

Yeh its to do with the leaving cert in the south, thats why the monaghan game was on sat past

I see Sludden is the referee for this match. The last two matches I've seen have been very well reffed (minor match on Saturday evening and McQuillan on Sunday). What's the chances of a hat trick?
He incorrectly sent Finn Mo off in Newry earlier in the year although in fairness to him it was on the advice of Stevie Wonder on the sideline.
Wouldn't be the best.......if there's overly fussy refereeing on Sunday it will be a whistle fest!

Quote from: drici on June 01, 2010, 10:17:04 AM
(http://ulster.gaa.ie/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/armagh-monaghan-usfc-2010.jpg)

Sunday June 6th 2010

Ulster Senior Football Championship Quarter Final
Armagh v Monaghan, Throw In 2.00pm at Casement Park, Belfast

Ulster Ladies Senior Football Championship Round 1
Tyrone v Monaghan, Throw In 12.00pm at Casement Park, Belfast

Ticketing:

This is NOT an all-ticket event. Patrons can pay into the Open Seating and Terrace at the gate.
Tickets are available through Clubs and County Boards.

Ticket Prices:
Terrace €15 / £13
Open Seating and access to Hamburger van €25 / £21
Covered Stand €27 / £23

Concessions:
OAP Terrace €10 / £9
OAP Open Seating €15 / £13
U16s free into Open seating and Terrace

I have to assume the poster added that bit in Re Hamburger vans.  ;D  ;D

(http://ulster.gaa.ie/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/armagh-monaghan-usfc-2010.jpg)

Stevie does appear a little excited in that image  :)

Are they dark storm clouds over Stevie's head? I hope the voices in his head are not getting the better of him.

Quote from: mackers on June 01, 2010, 10:56:31 AM
I see Sludden is the referee for this match. The last two matches I've seen have been very well reffed (minor match on Saturday evening and McQuillan on Sunday). What's the chances of a hat trick?
He incorrectly sent Finn Mo off in Newry earlier in the year although in fairness to him it was on the advice of Stevie Wonder on the sideline.
Wouldn't be the best.......if there's overly fussy refereeing on Sunday it will be a whistle fest!

An awful referee. Paddy Power offering even money on at least 10.5 yellow cards allegedly. Free money.

Quote from: Main Street on June 01, 2010, 02:08:54 PM
(http://ulster.gaa.ie/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/armagh-monaghan-usfc-2010.jpg)

More faggotism from the Ulster Council (or whoever)!! Just go and play the match and ditch all this "Hard and manly" Ulster shite!

Season ticket holders e-mailed today e20 ( e5 discount ) for open seated area no seats available in the main stand. terrace also available

So Malone and Greenan are both ruled out with injury. Pity for them both as they done well in the league and would have been pushin hard for a place,Malone esp as he played throughout the league.

Jaysus, this thread is dying a death. Two weeks ago it was flat out, must be nerves  ;D

Malone will be a miss after a solid if unspectatular league, when I heard about it last week, word was that he could be out for year. So hopefully the operation went well and he'll be back in 6/7 weeks.

I fear this will open the door for Banty to re-instate Damian Freeman into starting line-up and see him dropped into the backs as sweeper.

'Grimley factor a worry for O'Rourke'

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=129893

It remains to be seen how big an advantage this really is..

The favourites tags gets batted back by POR after Banty biggin up Armagh yesterday...

9/2   Armagh -5    14/1   Monaghan +5    1/6
16/5   Armagh -4    12/1   Monaghan +4    1/4
12/5   Armagh -3    10/1   Monaghan +3    4/11
7/4   Armagh -2    9/1   Monaghan +2    8/15
4/7   Armagh +1 8/1   Monaghan -1    7/4
4/11   Armagh +2 10/1   Monaghan -2    5/2
1/4   Armagh +3 11/1   Monaghan -3    10/3
1/6   Armagh +4 14/1   Monaghan -4    9/2

This game has a draw writen all over it lads...and then back to Clones for the replay. I'm assuming Ronan Clarke is the only injury Armagh have? James Lavery may be struggling too right enough but we can cope without him

Amazed it took this long for the "Grimley Factor" to make it to the papers.

Grimley will certainly know how to keep Stevie quiet. If we keep kicking the ball to Stevie, Monaghan will have that avenue covered. It's important that the proper ball goes into Henderson, if Monaghan concentrate on stopping Stevie then it should leave room for him.

Grimley wouldn't have worked with that many of the current panel as some of the younger lads like Swift, Vernon, Toner, Forker, etc. hadn't really made a breakthrough in 06 when he left.

My stab at the Armagh team for Sunday

Hearty
A Mallon
B Donaghy
P McKeown
P Duffy
C McKeever
Finn Mo
C Vernon
K Toner
K Dyas/M Mackin
AK
G Swift
S Forker
S McDonnell
R Henderson

Hopefully AK builds on his good performance in Derry, if he can get a good supply of ball into that FF line we'll score a lot, I'd say we can break even in midfield against a formidable Monaghan midfield.
Hopefully we don't go with a sweeper which will allow any two or three of C McKeever, Vernon, Finn Mo and P Duffy to bomb forward and try and draw out the defensive ring that will park in front of Stevie. 

Quote from: illdecide on June 02, 2010, 12:24:29 PM

This game has a draw writen all over it lads...and then back to Clones for the replay.

I wouldn't place that bet on a replay.
Extra time playable in the event of a draw after 70 mins.

Last time we played Down (i think) in Casement there was crazy delays on the m1 to get off at the Stockmans lane junction for casement (around '05 i think). Derry in '07 wasnt a problem as  there was very few at the game and supporters came from different directions.
I'd presume nearly all the match traffic will be heading to Casement from the m1 direction this Sunday, and with no minor match to filter the crowd in, i'd expect quite a delay for an early throw in 2pm. Anyone help with knowledge of the previous offramp to the stockmans lane one and would it be easily accessable to get from it to Casement ??.

Mackers I like the look of that team. With McManus and Freeman up front for Monaghan I think we need two markers and McKeown seems a good one. Would be suprised if he does start though. Also think Mallon will start, although I would prefer Forker's greater scoring potential.

Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on June 02, 2010, 12:22:49 PM
'Grimley factor a worry for O'Rourke'

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=129893

It remains to be seen how big an advantage this really is..

The favourites tags gets batted back by POR after Banty biggin up Armagh yesterday...

A rather lame attempt by Paddy,
"Monaghan strong favourites"
;D

What Paddy hasn't copped onto, is to keep it within the realms of believability.

Banty has the clear edge in the pre match rambles, combining respect and belief without resorting to theoretical factors.
"We know how credible Armagh are and how hard they are to beat. Monaghan respect Armagh. We don't fear anybody, whether we're underdogs or not," he added.

Quote from: donelli on June 02, 2010, 01:13:51 PM
Last time we played Down (i think) in Casement there was crazy delays on the m1 to get off at the Stockmans lane junction for casement (around '05 i think). Derry in '07 wasnt a problem as  there was very few at the game and supporters came from different directions.
I'd presume nearly all the match traffic will be heading to Casement from the m1 direction this Sunday, and with no minor match to filter the crowd in, i'd expect quite a delay for an early throw in 2pm. Anyone help with knowledge of the previous offramp to the stockmans lane one and would it be easily accessable to get from it to Casement ??.

With roadworks meaning that the M1 is down to a single lane around Sprucefield, traffic is going to be a complete disaster.

May be worth getting off the motorway at Moira and trying to find a back way into Lisburn.

Alternatively to avoid Stockman's lane you could take off for the A49, go up the Hillhall Road, take off for Shaw's Bridge, go to House of Sport then onto Casement.

Quote from: donelli on June 02, 2010, 01:13:51 PM
Last time we played Down (i think) in Casement there was crazy delays on the m1 to get off at the Stockmans lane junction for casement (around '05 i think). Derry in '07 wasnt a problem as  there was very few at the game and supporters came from different directions.
I'd presume nearly all the match traffic will be heading to Casement from the m1 direction this Sunday, and with no minor match to filter the crowd in, i'd expect quite a delay for an early throw in 2pm. Anyone help with knowledge of the previous offramp to the stockmans lane one and would it be easily accessable to get from it to Casement ??.

  You could come off the M1 at Lisburn and take the Hillhall road into Belfast. See the following Googlemaps link:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Exit+6&daddr=Hospital+Rd%2FB205+to:54.573952,-5.984931&hl=en&geocode=FaaoPwMdIPaj_w%3BFfRFQAMdmHyl_w%3B&mra=dme&mrcr=0&mrsp=2&sz=15&via=1&sll=54.574922,-5.98742&sspn=0.015497,0.04519&ie=UTF8&ll=54.536422,-5.953903&spn=0.124096,0.361519&z=12

Let me know if there's problem with the link. I live in Belfast and use this route always. My advice would be to park around the Kings Hall or at the bottom of Stockman's lane. There's a small car park on the lhs just before the filling station if driving from the Kings Hall towards the M1. It's used by the St Bridgets club and is fierce handy. Walk from there to Casement, stay away from Kennedy Way/A'town Road would be my advice also..

Quote from: illdecide on June 02, 2010, 12:24:29 PM

This game has a draw writen all over it lads...and then back to Clones for the replay.

Presumably after extra-time.

Anybody that goes on the motorway all the way to Stockman's lane is asking for trouble unless they're at the junction two hours before throw in........Hillhall Road is the way to go.

Hi Donelli.
there are a few ways to avoid the posible delays on the Mi . You can go of at the Moira roundabout (airport) and head into Belfast via the roundabout near the arport . That will take you through stoneyford and into the top end of West Belfast Lenadoon and down onto the Andersonstown road. about 30 minutes longer than the M1
You can come of at Lisburn and as has been said head up through Lisburn heading for Dunmurray and into Poleglass and into Andersontown high road . This is possibly the shortest and best. A small problem though hopefully not is that it passes through a mainly unionist area . From past experience we have had no bother and it is much quicket than the M1

No point in going as far as Lisburn, the traffic problems start country side of Lisburn.

Come off the motorway at junction 9 (Moira) and follow the A3 into Lisburn.

Go round the roundabout and take the exit that leads past the Leisureplex.

Go straight through the lights on to the Laganbank Road (A1).

Stay on the A1, until you pass Robbie Cahoon's. Then take first left at the next roundabout (McKinstry Road A512).

At the traffic lights, take a right (still A512).

At the next roundabout take second left (ignoring signposts, still A512).

At the next roundabout, take a left and head up Dunmurry Lane.

At the next roundabout, take the last exit on to the Stewartstown Road and head down towards Casement.

If you want to be really clever, after St. Genevieve's take a left onto Shaw's Road and then first right.

So straight across first cross roads.

After the school and shops on your left, take a left (Bingnian), then a right. At the roundabout take second exit.

When you see St Agnes's club (decrepit green building), turn your car and park it.

Walk the remaining 150 yards to the ground.

I see some smart arse has changed the location of Casement on Google Maps to Ulster Avenue, Dunmurray and changed the phone number to that of the Felons. Have corrected the marker but the incorrect address is still coming up. 

1. Shane Duffy

2. Dessie Mone
3. John Paul Mone
4. Vinny Corry

5. N McAdam
6. Darren Hughes
7. Gary McQuaid

8. Eoin Lennon
9. Dick Clerkin

10. Stephen Gollogly
11. Paul Finlay
12. Kieran Hughes

13. Tommy Freeman
14. Rory Woods
15. Conor McManus

Subs: Dermot McArdle, Damien Freeman, Colin Walshe, Marty McElroy, Ciaran Hannarty, Mark Downey

Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on June 02, 2010, 02:21:19 PM
1. Shane Duffy

2. Dessie Mone
3. John Paul Mone
4. Vinny Corry

5. N McAdam
6. Darren Hughes
7. Gary McQuaid

8. Eoin Lennon
9. Dick Clerkin

10. Stephen Gollogly
11. Paul Finlay
12. Kieran Hughes

13. Tommy Freeman
14. Rory Woods
15. Conor McManus

Subs: Dermot McArdle, Damien Freeman, Colin Walshe, Marty McElroy, Ciaran Hannarty, Mark Downey

is that bantys team or yours??
I'd have freeman in instead of kieran hughes.
thanks for the alternative directions above...

Lads, seriously the train is the only way to go. Get on it at Portydown, Lurgan, Moira or Lisburn and a short walk to Casement. There is a train about 12:20 from Lurgan which is ideal and not having to worry about parking or traffic jams

Quote from: Ulick on June 02, 2010, 01:43:03 PM

Quote from: illdecide on June 02, 2010, 12:24:29 PM

This game has a draw writen all over it lads...and then back to Clones for the replay.

Presumably after extra-time.

Aye that :D...forgot about the poxy extra time ;D

Quote from: illdecide on June 02, 2010, 02:26:15 PM
Lads, seriously the train is the only way to go. Get on it at Portydown, Lurgan, Moira or Lisburn and a short walk to Casement. There is a train about 12:20 from Lurgan which is ideal and not having to worry about parking or traffic jams

If it doesn't stop at Finaghy, then it's a hell of a long walk.

Or a taxi (roughly £8 from Central station according to FoSB).

Train allegedly costs £6 for all day travel on a Sunday anywhere in the six, according to the man who sold me a ticket last week.

I'll be gettin off at Balmoral i hope.

If driving, the other journey no one has pointed out is to stay in the overtaking lane of the M1, go on past the Stockman's Lane roundabout where the tailbacks will be, and either come off at Broadway and park on the Falls or right on into the city centre and get a black taxi to the ground. Free parking on the streets on a Sunday or the multi-story in Castle St is only a few £s.

Quote from: Ulick on June 02, 2010, 02:51:52 PM
If driving, the other journey no one has pointed out is to stay in the overtaking lane of the M1, go on past the Stockman's Lane roundabout where the tailbacks will be, and either come off at Broadway and park on the Falls or right on into the city centre and get a black taxi to the ground. Free parking on the streets on a Sunday or the multi-story in Castle St is only a few £s.

The main problem is likely to be at Sprucefield, rather than Stockman's Lane. If you get to Stockman's then your journey would be worth considering.

A bit if though.

Quote from: Ulick on June 02, 2010, 02:51:52 PM
If driving, the other journey no one has pointed out is to stay in the overtaking lane of the M1, go on past the Stockman's Lane roundabout where the tailbacks will be, and either come off at Broadway and park on the Falls or right on into the city centre and get a black taxi to the ground. Free parking on the streets on a Sunday or the multi-story in Castle St is only a few £s.

V. Down that year where there was big problems, all lanes where blocked/at a snails pace, it was only when you got close to the junction that you could actually drive the car, damage was done at that stage. Even the hard shoulder was useless with cars overheating and breaking down/colling off on them.

Quote from: passedit on June 02, 2010, 02:40:35 PM
I'll be gettin off at Balmoral i hope.

Correct...Kings hall and a 15 min dander

Quote from: bingobus on June 02, 2010, 03:04:29 PM

Quote from: Ulick on June 02, 2010, 02:51:52 PM
If driving, the other journey no one has pointed out is to stay in the overtaking lane of the M1, go on past the Stockman's Lane roundabout where the tailbacks will be, and either come off at Broadway and park on the Falls or right on into the city centre and get a black taxi to the ground. Free parking on the streets on a Sunday or the multi-story in Castle St is only a few £s.

V. Down that year where there was big problems, all lanes where blocked/at a snails pace, it was only when you got close to the junction that you could actually drive the car, damage was done at that stage. Even the hard shoulder was useless with cars overheating and breaking down/colling off on them.

The Roadworks are going to be the big problem though, otherwise what Ulick says would be sensible enough.

I've already checked and the train will be stopping at Balmoral (Kings Hall). A few hands of cards on the train and maybe a can or two of the finest brew ;)

Quote from: bingobus on June 02, 2010, 03:04:29 PM
V. Down that year where there was big problems, all lanes where blocked/at a snails pace, it was only when you got close to the junction that you could actually drive the car, damage was done at that stage. Even the hard shoulder was useless with cars overheating and breaking down/colling off on them.

A new slip road has been added since then bingo - all traffic heading that way will be filtered off a mile before the junction, leaving two clear city bound lanes on the M1. The overtaking lane at the very least will be fine.

Also, if I remember right, most of the traffic chaos last time was caused by numpties parking on the hard shoulder of the motorway.

Quote from: illdecide on June 02, 2010, 03:11:11 PM
I've already checked and the train will be stopping at Balmoral (Kings Hall). A few hands of cards on the train and maybe a can or two of the finest brew ;)

Aye a handy one for north Armagh. Let's see how those culchies from Monaghan and south Armagh like being couped up in a sweat box of a bus or car for three hours before a game. Sure you would need a bottle of wine to cope with that.

Personally, I'll have a nice leisurely breakfast whilst reading the Tribune, before taking in 11am Mass at a private chapel on the Andytown Rd, dander down to Fusco's for an orange sorbet, wave goodbye to the wife and child and then go and meet the lads from the train for a few pints. Couldn't beat it!

Quote from: Ulick on June 02, 2010, 03:25:47 PM

Quote from: illdecide on June 02, 2010, 03:11:11 PM
I've already checked and the train will be stopping at Balmoral (Kings Hall). A few hands of cards on the train and maybe a can or two of the finest brew ;)

Aye a handy one for north Armagh. Let's see how those culchies from Monaghan and south Armagh like being couped up in a sweat box of a bus or car for three hours before a game. Sure you would need a bottle of wine to cope with that.

Personally, I'll have a nice leisurely breakfast whilst reading the Tribune, before taking in 11am Mass at a private chapel on the Andytown Rd, dander down to Fusco's for an orange sorbet, wave goodbye to the wife and child and then go and meet the lads from the train for a few pints. Couldn't beat it!

The culchies from South Armagh could get the train in Newry and leave the North Armagh boys standing in the train, the ould card games wouldn't be so handy then. ;)
Wouldn't be as familiar with the pubs in and around Casement, is it just the pubs opposite the main entrance to Casement or are there any other pubs nearby?  Probably will be walking up from Balmoral Avenue. If this weather keeps up a few pints before the match will go down well.

The bowling club is my preference in the good weather (in Fruithill Park behind the Wihitefort Inn). Pleasant surroundings and handy to the bar. Within walking distance, the other options are the PD club (bedlam), the Whitefort (Paragon equivalent), the Felons on Kennedy Way (dark) and Biddy Duffy's (jammers). 

Ulster Council issuing traffic info

Information for Patrons travelling to Monaghan v Armagh game in Casement Park, Belfast on Sunday – Received from Stephen McGeehan, Ulster Council.


Due to major maintenance work on Sprucefield Bridge on the M1 (junction 7) a series of contra flow arrangements, will be in place for this Sunday's fixture in Casement Park.
Supporters travelling via the A1 will be able to re-join the motorway at Blaris Roundabout.  Please note that while there are contra flows in operation that there are two lanes maintained thereafter to enable vehicles to continue their journeys to and from the city. 


As a result of these works supporters travelling via the M1 can expect some delays and we are advising GAA supporters to allow up to an additional 30 minutes for their journey to the game.  Those travelling on the M1 are asked to exit at Stockman's
Lane where electronic signage will be in place to direct them to the Car Parking in the Boucher area.


There will be significant additional car parking available at the Boucher Road for GAA supporters on the day as well as the other Car Parks including Woodlands Playing Pitches and at Blackstaff  Road and other public and retail facilities in the City. 


We are maintaining daily contact with Road Service Traffic Control Centre and will keep you updated on any developments as they happen.


Stephen McGeehan
Ulster Council

Quote from: Ulick on June 02, 2010, 03:44:09 PM
The bowling club is my preference in the good weather (in Fruithill Park behind the Wihitefort Inn). Pleasant surroundings and handy to the bar. Within walking distance, the other options are the PD club (bedlam), the Whitefort (Paragon equivalent), the Felons on Kennedy Way (dark) and Biddy Duffy's (jammers). 

The bowling club sounds good, is the Whitefort Inn on the Andytown road?

Quote from: Main Street on June 02, 2010, 01:23:07 PM

Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on June 02, 2010, 12:22:49 PM
'Grimley factor a worry for O'Rourke'

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=129893

It remains to be seen how big an advantage this really is..

The favourites tags gets batted back by POR after Banty biggin up Armagh yesterday...

A rather lame attempt by Paddy,
"Monaghan strong favourites"
;D

What Paddy hasn't copped onto, is to keep it within the realms of believability.

Banty has the clear edge in the pre match rambles, combining respect and belief without resorting to theoretical factors.
"We know how credible Armagh are and how hard they are to beat. Monaghan respect Armagh. We don't fear anybody, whether we're underdogs or not," he added.

Good post, accurate and the Monaghan men dont bother with the bulshit, they told it like it is, Paddy would do well to learn from this.

Re travel advice
Doesn't matter much which way the intrepid Armagh fan takes to Casement, they are all the one trail of tears.

I was hoping Tony would be around to put on the definitive jinx. Did somebody gag and bound him until the game starts?

Quote from: stew on June 02, 2010, 05:02:20 PM

Quote from: Main Street on June 02, 2010, 01:23:07 PM

Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on June 02, 2010, 12:22:49 PM
'Grimley factor a worry for O'Rourke'

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=129893

It remains to be seen how big an advantage this really is..

The favourites tags gets batted back by POR after Banty biggin up Armagh yesterday...

A rather lame attempt by Paddy,
"Monaghan strong favourites"
;D

What Paddy hasn't copped onto, is to keep it within the realms of believability.

Banty has the clear edge in the pre match rambles, combining respect and belief without resorting to theoretical factors.
"We know how credible Armagh are and how hard they are to beat. Monaghan respect Armagh. We don't fear anybody, whether we're underdogs or not," he added.

Good post, accurate and the Monaghan men dont bother with the bulshit, they told it like it is, Paddy would do well to learn from this.

Monaghan post as much bullshit as Armagh, only difference is they got it in first. Both sides trying to grab the underdog tab. Schoolboy stuff and should have little merit on the day.

Banty doesn't claim the underdog tag.
He dismisses it as irrelevant.

Banty interview on Talk radio whatever the feck its called.  He was asked about Grimley and what has he brought? any change to game plan?
Banty doesn't react too well when 'change' is mentioned,  a bit of a sharp edge in his reply, dismissing the notion of change (being needed) in the Monaghan game, 'we will be doing what we have been doing well over the past 4 years'. 'That Paul has brought some fine tuning our game, he challenges people,  challenges players, challenges the manager and is a very good coach'.

The rest was pretty much a repeat of the quotes in the newspaper.
'Armagh have the pedigree over the last decade in Ulster GAA and are coming to this game on the back of some good victories.'
I am not going to be building up Armagh, Monaghan have been  knocking on the door and at least we are  still here knocking on the door, Monaghan have no fear of Armagh or the game ahead'

Listening between the lines I could almost hear  Banty  - Lust for Glory,
"we will cut out their living guts and use them to grease the treads of our tanks".

Quote"we will cut out their living guts and use them to grease the treads of our tanks".

Should that not be tractors.

Quote from: hardstation on June 02, 2010, 10:05:43 PM

Quote from: Ulick on June 02, 2010, 03:44:09 PM
The bowling club is my preference in the good weather (in Fruithill Park behind the Wihitefort Inn). Pleasant surroundings and handy to the bar. Within walking distance, the other options are the PD club (bedlam), the Whitefort (Paragon equivalent), the Felons on Kennedy Way (dark) and Biddy Duffy's (jammers).

The Fiddlers??

I'll be heading for a cider in the Fruithill Bowling Club.

http://www.youtube.com/user/UlsterGAA// - 2 mins highlights of Armagh v Monaghan in Jan in the McKenna Cup. I know, I know, it's only the McKenna (freezing Iniskeen ain't Casement in June) but still. Monaghan were doing ok til Clarke and Stevie ran riot for ten mins. I think it was Paddy's first win with Armagh.

Quote from: Any craic on June 02, 2010, 11:17:41 PM
http://www.youtube.com/user/UlsterGAA// - 2 mins highlights of Armagh v Monaghan in Jan in the McKenna Cup. I know, I know, it's only the McKenna (freezing Iniskeen ain't Casement in June) but still. Monaghan were doing ok til Clarke and Stevie ran riot for ten mins. I think it was Paddy's first win with Armagh.

That game will have no bearing whatsoever on the one on Sunday, not (just) because it was the McKenna Cup, but because of the teams that lined out. I'd say of the players that featured that night for Monaghan, one will probably play this weekend, 2 max. Can't remember Armagh's full team but it was alot more experienced if still experimental.

I know you said it was only the McKenna Cup and it is the most recent meeting so that's fair enough, just pointing out it doesn't give any indication of what we'll see in Casement.

Quote from: Main Street on June 02, 2010, 08:37:33 PM
Banty interview on Talk radio whatever the feck its called.  He was asked about Grimley and what has he brought? any change to game plan?
Banty doesn't react too well when 'change' is mentioned,  a bit of a sharp edge in his reply, dismissing the notion of change (being needed) in the Monaghan game, 'we will be doing what we have been doing well over the past 4 years'. 'That Paul has brought some fine tuning our game, he challenges people,  challenges players, challenges the manager and is a very good coach'.

The rest was pretty much a repeat of the quotes in the newspaper.
'Armagh have the pedigree over the last decade in Ulster GAA and are coming to this game on the back of some good victories.'
I am not going to be building up Armagh, Monaghan have been  knocking on the door and at least we are  still here knocking on the door, Monaghan have no fear of Armagh or the game ahead'

Listening between the lines I could almost hear  Banty  - Lust for Glory,
"we will cut out their living guts and use them to grease the treads of our tanks".

So we can look forward to a disappointing first round Ulster championship exit then?

Armagh forward Ronan Clarke has declared himself fit for Sunday's Ulster SFC game against Monaghan.
Clarke missed Armagh's opening win over Derry because of an Achilles injury and was not expected to be in contention for Sunday's game in Belfast.
However, he told BBC Sport on Wednesday that he "is fit and available for selection" although it is unlikely that he will risked from the start.
Monaghan will be without injured duo Dermot Malone and Colm Greenan.
Both players were regulars during the Farney County's National League campaign but have been denied the chance to make Championship debuts because of knee injuries.
The news comes as a blow to Monaghan manager Seamus McEnaney.
Greenan has been impressing in the full-back line while Malone has been playing well in the forwards.
Castleblayney man Malone will undergo surgery and is ruled out for five or six weeks.
The winners of Sunday's tie will face Cavan or Fermanagh at the semi-final stage.
Armagh were awarded home advantage in the draw but have decided to play the game at Casement Park.
With Clarke unlikely to start, Armagh's main selection issue may revolve around whether Jamie Clarke will be utilised from the off.
Clarke scored Armagh's crucial goal in the win over Derry after coming on as a second-half substitute.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/8715681.stm

Glad to see Clarke is available for selection, he'd be a good sub for the last 15 mins when the game is in the melting pot and i'd say the Monaghan full back line would not like to see Ronan and Jamie Clarke enter the fray.

Great news to start to the day. See, see what I told yiz all about those negative waves:

(http://api.ning.com/files/jIf4UDVpfBnLM2ynfIvVAhHlp-YLVGKAZsFD5gM5YW9jEk44NpCmdABT7-PLlcCVEFvxtrzGsRpGiwMT-DO1k-aqo72eGTH9/oddball.jpg)

Quote from: illdecide on June 03, 2010, 10:22:31 AM
Glad to see Clarke is available for selection, he'd be a good sub for the last 15 mins when the game is in the melting pot and i'd say the Monaghan full back line would not like to see Ronan and Jamie Clarke enter the fray.

I'm still very sceptical. All the word is that he's yet to take anywhere near a full part in training. I've seen a half fit Clarke fumble and fall about the place enough times over the years to have serious doubts that he'd be much of an impact sub. Some players can get by alright on one leg, I don't think Clarke has ever been one of these.

It's a bit confusing when you have 2 Clarkes.

Re Greenan being out through injury, I doubt if he would have started.
More a blow to the lad himself and his chances on the bench.

Quote from: bingobus on June 03, 2010, 09:29:03 AM
So we can look forward to a disappointing first round Ulster championship exit then?

Why? 
Speak for yourself.

Quote from: Main Street on June 03, 2010, 11:35:16 AM

Quote from: bingobus on June 03, 2010, 09:29:03 AM
So we can look forward to a disappointing first round Ulster championship exit then?

Why?
Speak for yourself.

I was only going on what Banty said, that they would be doing what they've been doing in the last 4 years (I like the way he dismisses the first 2 years of his reign).

The simple fact is that, bar one year, Bantys Ulster championship record is terrible. Its a massive failing that this group of players have not yet won an Ulster title. The back door is all well and good but its always going to end at quarter final stage or at best semi-final stage. An Ulster title is the realistic goal for Monaghan and to date, Banty has failed. To do this, he needs massive change and that is why I think his comments, which you quoted, is wrong.

Ronan Clarke won't be risked. If he aggravates the injury he will miss the rest of the championship.

Starting to get excited now. Nothing beats the championship, forget your world cups etc

Quote from: Ulick on June 02, 2010, 03:44:09 PM
The bowling club is my preference in the good weather (in Fruithill Park behind the Wihitefort Inn). Pleasant surroundings and handy to the bar. Within walking distance, the other options are the PD club (bedlam), the Whitefort (Paragon equivalent), the Felons on Kennedy Way (dark) and Biddy Duffy's (jammers).

Where would be the best spot to catch the Cork Kerry game (and a few pints obviously) afterwards?

Quote from: bingobus on June 03, 2010, 12:06:19 PM

Quote from: Main Street on June 03, 2010, 11:35:16 AM

Quote from: bingobus on June 03, 2010, 09:29:03 AM
So we can look forward to a disappointing first round Ulster championship exit then?

Why?
Speak for yourself.

I was only going on what Banty said, that they would be doing what they've been doing in the last 4 years (I like the way he dismisses the first 2 years of his reign).

The simple fact is that, bar one year, Bantys Ulster championship record is terrible. Its a massive failing that this group of players have not yet won an Ulster title. The back door is all well and good but its always going to end at quarter final stage or at best semi-final stage. An Ulster title is the realistic goal for Monaghan and to date, Banty has failed. To do this, he needs massive change and that is why I think his comments, which you quoted, is wrong.

Remember I was paraphrasing.
But as you have already demonstrated an inability to interpret direct Banty quotes as written, I suspect that you have some overly emotional reactive agenda in your reply, which anyway doesn't require accurate interpretation of quotes.

I assume you are totally against Banty being manager for this year, that you are pessimistic about any progress and already resigned to another first round defeat.
Just say it out front and we can deal with that, instead of this sniping away like some bitter pundit who has a master plan that everybody ignores.

Quote from: Main Street on June 03, 2010, 03:14:48 PM
Remember I was paraphrasing.
But as you have already demonstrated an inability to interpret direct Banty quotes as written, I suspect that you have some overly emotional reactive agenda in your reply, which anyway doesn't require accurate interpretation of quotes.

I assume you are totally against Banty being manager for this year, that you are pessimistic about any progress and already resigned to another first round defeat.
Just say it out front and we can deal with that, instead of this sniping away like some bitter pundit who has a master plan that everybody ignores.

You'd need to take a step back. I actually was very much in favour of Banty staying this year and defended that on here at the time. He deserves a chance to win Ulster and retain his Div 1 status.

Your first few comments on your last post is  ??? Where you quoting Banty or not? If you where paraphrasing him, you outlined that Paul Grimely was appointed not to change Monaghan but a bit of fine tuning. Fine tuning and challenging players/manager won't win Monaghan an Ulster, Banty hasn't had a good run in Ulster bar 1 year? Is that not simple to see? Fine tuning won't change that. The rumoured 50k that Paul Grimley is alot to pay for fine tuning and challenges.

really fancy armagh in this, feel we can do the bizz by at least 4

Quote from: bingobus on June 03, 2010, 03:36:50 PM

Quote from: Main Street on June 03, 2010, 03:14:48 PM
Remember I was paraphrasing.
But as you have already demonstrated an inability to interpret direct Banty quotes as written, I suspect that you have some overly emotional reactive agenda in your reply, which anyway doesn't require accurate interpretation of quotes.

I assume you are totally against Banty being manager for this year, that you are pessimistic about any progress and already resigned to another first round defeat.
Just say it out front and we can deal with that, instead of this sniping away like some bitter pundit who has a master plan that everybody ignores.

You'd need to take a step back. I actually was very much in favour of Banty staying this year and defended that on here at the time. He deserves a chance to win Ulster and retain his Div 1 status.

Your first few comments on your last post is  ??? Where you quoting Banty or not? If you where paraphrasing him, you outlined that Paul Grimely was appointed not to change Monaghan but a bit of fine tuning. Fine tuning and challenging players/manager won't win Monaghan an Ulster, Banty hasn't had a good run in Ulster bar 1 year? Is that not simple to see? Fine tuning won't change that. The rumoured 50k that Paul Grimley is alot to pay for fine tuning and challenges.

Agree fully

I'd be a bit sceptical as to how a county the size of Monaghan could pay one of its management team such an amount in the current climate. It's not like it's even a full time job.

BBC
Armagh: P Hearty, A Mallon, B Donaghy, V Martin, P Duffy, C McKeever, F Moriarty, C Vernon, K Toner, M Mackin, A Kernan, G Swift, B Mallon, S McDonnell, R Henderson

Vincey Martin for Lavery.  Not the worst move I ever seen if Woods is about, could be a red herring I suppose.

Quote from: bennydorano on June 03, 2010, 10:27:30 PM
BBC
Armagh: P Hearty, A Mallon, B Donaghy, V Martin, P Duffy, C McKeever, F Moriarty, C Vernon, K Toner, M Mackin, A Kernan, G Swift, B Mallon, S McDonnell, R Henderson

Vincey Martin for Lavery.  Not the worst move I ever seen if Woods is about, could be a red herring I suppose.

Careful he doesn't eat it!  :D

Interviews with Paddy O'Rourke, Ronan Clarke and Steven McDonnell ahead of the Armagh Monaghan game

http://www.armagh-gaa.com/Orchard-TV/News/VIDEO---Interviews-before-Monaghan-game.aspx

Quote from: bennydorano on June 03, 2010, 10:27:30 PM
BBC
Armagh: P Hearty, A Mallon, B Donaghy, V Martin, P Duffy, C McKeever, F Moriarty, C Vernon, K Toner, M Mackin, A Kernan, G Swift, B Mallon, S McDonnell, R Henderson

Vincey Martin for Lavery.  Not the worst move I ever seen if Woods is about, could be a red herring I suppose.

No real surprises there other than Martin. Would've expected, and maybe preferred, Dyas or Shannon to come in but fair play to Vincey on getting the nod, he must be going well in training. Lets hope he can up his game from his last encounter with Woods. It'll also be vital that he doesn't let that infamous short fuse get him into any bother. Another big day for Henderson, has to reproduce his relatively good form from the Derry game.

I see Ronan Clarke is not named in the subs yet he declared himself on wednesday :-\

Quote from: AFS on June 04, 2010, 08:54:44 AM

Quote from: bennydorano on June 03, 2010, 10:27:30 PM
BBC
Armagh: P Hearty, A Mallon, B Donaghy, V Martin, P Duffy, C McKeever, F Moriarty, C Vernon, K Toner, M Mackin, A Kernan, G Swift, B Mallon, S McDonnell, R Henderson

Vincey Martin for Lavery.  Not the worst move I ever seen if Woods is about, could be a red herring I suppose.

No real surprises there other than Martin. Would've expected, and maybe preferred, Dyas or Shannon to come in but fair play to Vincey on getting the nod, he must be going well in training. Lets hope he can up his game from his last encounter with Woods. It'll also be vital that he doesn't let that infamous short fuse get him into any bother. Another big day for Henderson, has to reproduce his relatively good form from the Derry game.

That's the bit that worries me the most, he didn't last five minutes on the field in Portlaoise before gubbing somebody and the fuse will be tested on Sunday. Hopefully he goes well, his physicality probably got him the nod.
When do Monaghan name their team?

Monaghan name their team tonight, although I wouldn't take any announcement as gospel.

Meanwhile RTE seem to be a bit confused in their preview. Here's the final paragraph:

You would expect Armagh to make the better start given the one game they have under their belts, but an Ulster title is the very least Monaghan will be aiming for this year and they should be one step closer to that goal come Sunday evening.

Verdict: Armagh

Quote from: Maguire01 on June 04, 2010, 11:10:52 AM
Monaghan name their team tonight, although I wouldn't take any announcement as gospel.

Meanwhile RTE seem to be a bit confused in their preview. Here's the final paragraph:

You would expect Armagh to make the better start given the one game they have under their belts, but an Ulster title is the very least Monaghan will be aiming for this year and they should be one step closer to that goal come Sunday evening.

Verdict: Armagh

Decisive then.

Quote from: bingobus on June 03, 2010, 03:36:50 PM

Quote from: Main Street on June 03, 2010, 03:14:48 PM
Remember I was paraphrasing.
But as you have already demonstrated an inability to interpret direct Banty quotes as written, I suspect that you have some overly emotional reactive agenda in your reply, which anyway doesn't require accurate interpretation of quotes.

I assume you are totally against Banty being manager for this year, that you are pessimistic about any progress and already resigned to another first round defeat.
Just say it out front and we can deal with that, instead of this sniping away like some bitter pundit who has a master plan that everybody ignores.

You'd need to take a step back. I actually was very much in favour of Banty staying this year and defended that on here at the time. He deserves a chance to win Ulster and retain his Div 1 status.

Your first few comments on your last post is  ??? Where you quoting Banty or not? If you where paraphrasing him, you outlined that Paul Grimely was appointed not to change Monaghan but a bit of fine tuning. Fine tuning and challenging players/manager won't win Monaghan an Ulster, Banty hasn't had a good run in Ulster bar 1 year? Is that not simple to see? Fine tuning won't change that. The rumoured 50k that Paul Grimley is alot to pay for fine tuning and challenges.

As i wrote Bingo, you have a difficulty even to understand a direct printed quote, not to mention what paraphrasing means and a complete blank-out on picking up on any sarcasm. So, leaping to reactive conclusions about Grimley's role/Monaghan's chances, based on all that, is very dodgy and immature. And I never wrote  that Grimley was appointed not to change Monaghan.

As soon as Banty was given another year, it was a given that there would be no massive changes in the way Monaghan play.
Monaghan have already played enough games in the league for us all to see there are no massive changes. Where do you get all this  sudden need for "massive change" from?  If you supported the manager to have the job for another year, was it a conditional support - only if he brings in massive changes?  If you supported the manager for this year, then you let him get on with the job until the game is played, without resorting to mindless negative predictive reading between the lines of what Banty is quoted as saying or what another poster says he heard Banty says.

Quote from: Main Street on June 04, 2010, 11:59:35 AM

Quote from: bingobus on June 03, 2010, 03:36:50 PM

Quote from: Main Street on June 03, 2010, 03:14:48 PM
Remember I was paraphrasing.
But as you have already demonstrated an inability to interpret direct Banty quotes as written, I suspect that you have some overly emotional reactive agenda in your reply, which anyway doesn't require accurate interpretation of quotes.

I assume you are totally against Banty being manager for this year, that you are pessimistic about any progress and already resigned to another first round defeat.
Just say it out front and we can deal with that, instead of this sniping away like some bitter pundit who has a master plan that everybody ignores.

You'd need to take a step back. I actually was very much in favour of Banty staying this year and defended that on here at the time. He deserves a chance to win Ulster and retain his Div 1 status.

Your first few comments on your last post is  ??? Where you quoting Banty or not? If you where paraphrasing him, you outlined that Paul Grimely was appointed not to change Monaghan but a bit of fine tuning. Fine tuning and challenging players/manager won't win Monaghan an Ulster, Banty hasn't had a good run in Ulster bar 1 year? Is that not simple to see? Fine tuning won't change that. The rumoured 50k that Paul Grimley is alot to pay for fine tuning and challenges.

As i wrote Bingo, you have a difficulty even to understand a direct printed quote, not to mention what paraphrasing means and a complete blank-out on picking up on any sarcasm. So, leaping to reactive conclusions about Grimley's role/Monaghan's chances, based on all that, is very dodgy and immature. And I never wrote  that Grimley was appointed not to change Monaghan.

As soon as Banty was given another year, it was a given that there would be no massive changes in the way Monaghan play.
Monaghan have already played enough games in the league for us all to see there are no massive changes. Where do you get all this  sudden need for "massive change" from?  If you supported the manager to have the job for another year, was it a conditional support - only if he brings in massive changes?  If you supported the manager for this year, then you let him get on with the job until the game is played, without resorting to mindless negative predictive reading between the lines of what Banty is quoted as saying or what another poster says he heard Banty says.

You're wasting your time........Bingobus has deleted his account after a fall out with stew. See the Liverpool thread.

Apparently someone posted on another forum that Henderson is not starting for Armagh...if that is the case who will take his place, i watched Stefan forker play against the Clans on Monday night and from that performance it better not be him.

Jamie Clarke or even a shock Ronan Clarke...what do yous reckon?

Wouldn't like to see either Clarke to starting to be honest. Hopefully it's just one of those pre-match rumours that floats about before a game, I heard that Brendan Donaghy was injured before the Derry match........
If Forker was playing against the Clanns on Monday evening he's not in a shake up for starting place.

Quote from: mackers on June 04, 2010, 03:55:01 PM
Wouldn't like to see either Clarke to starting to be honest. Hopefully it's just one of those pre-match rumours that floats about before a game, I heard that Brendan Donaghy was injured before the Derry match........
If Forker was playing against the Clanns on Monday evening he's not in a shake up for starting place.

He was carrying a knock into that game according to several people that are usually well informed, so there was some truth in that one.

From the sounds of things, Ronan Clarke won't play any part. If Henderson has been dropped, my money would be on Jamie Clarke coming in.

Quote from: Maguire01 on June 04, 2010, 11:10:52 AM
Monaghan name their team tonight, although I wouldn't take any announcement as gospel.

Meanwhile RTE seem to be a bit confused in their preview. Here's the final paragraph:

You would expect Armagh to make the better start given the one game they have under their belts, but an Ulster title is the very least Monaghan will be aiming for this year and they should be one step closer to that goal come Sunday evening.

Verdict: Armagh

words escape me. you're more confused than Scooby Doo.

Havent been reading the thread much lads so just had a quick look at this page now.

I'm not sure which of the two of ye I'll be supporting but I suppose it will have to be Armagh as I'd rather say an Armagh v Down final.

Sorry Cavan & Fermanagh. Are ye still looking a game.
Don't mind me I'm in giddy Friday mood.

Quote from: eireogatron on June 04, 2010, 04:16:11 PM

Quote from: Maguire01 on June 04, 2010, 11:10:52 AM
Meanwhile RTE seem to be a bit confused in their preview. Here's the final paragraph:

You would expect Armagh to make the better start given the one game they have under their belts, but an Ulster title is the very least Monaghan will be aiming for this year and they should be one step closer to that goal come Sunday evening.

Verdict: Armagh

words escape me. you're more confused than Scooby Doo.

You might want to have another read at that and see who is confused.

Monaghan team according to Drumlinsport.com

S Duffy
D Mone
D Hughes
C Walshe
D Freeman
V Corey
G McQuaid
D Clerkin
JP Mone
S Gollogly
P Finlay
K Hughes
C Hanratty
C McManus
T Freeman

I'd expect Woods on for Hanratty and quite a few positional changes.

I'd expect a direct swap between JP and D Hughes. Strange that Lennon isn't there - I'd have expected him in at the start and be subbed if he wasn't effective. Good to have Woods and McArdle there if we need them.

Quote from: AFS on June 04, 2010, 04:10:11 PM

Quote from: mackers on June 04, 2010, 03:55:01 PM
Wouldn't like to see either Clarke to starting to be honest. Hopefully it's just one of those pre-match rumours that floats about before a game, I heard that Brendan Donaghy was injured before the Derry match........
If Forker was playing against the Clanns on Monday evening he's not in a shake up for starting place.

He was carrying a knock into that game according to several people that are usually well informed, so there was some truth in that one.

From the sounds of things, Ronan Clarke won't play any part. If Henderson has been dropped, my money would be on Jamie Clarke coming in.

Henderson is starting.......heard from a top source tonight.

Quote from: mackers on June 04, 2010, 10:20:55 PM
Henderson is starting.......heard from a top source tonight.

Quote from: huggy2002 on orchard county forumjamie clarke starting on sunday lads just heard from a v reliable source.

Lots of sources floating about tonight  :D

Clarke def starting instead of henderson

Which Clarke?

Quote from: hardstation on June 04, 2010, 11:59:34 PM
Clark Kent.

Neither Clarke nor Henderson are starting.

Quote from: hardstation on June 04, 2010, 11:59:34 PM
Clark Kent.

You heading to Casement yourself on Sunday?

Quote from: AFS on June 04, 2010, 11:36:15 PM

Quote from: mackers on June 04, 2010, 10:20:55 PM
Henderson is starting.......heard from a top source tonight.

Quote from: huggy2002 on orchard county forumjamie clarke starting on sunday lads just heard from a v reliable source.

Lots of sources floating about tonight  :D

I'll never understand why people post what is supposed to be closed door information regarding the Armagh team selection on this or any other website. How can people like this describe themselves as Armagh supporters? Even if you do have accurate team selection information why can't you shut your mouth or in this case refrain from the keyboard and keep this information private?

Because the v reliable source is usually some gobshite who got a text from some gobshite pissed in a pub!!!

I doubt Banty is making or changing too many plans based on Internet rumours.

Quote from: hardstation on June 05, 2010, 12:05:49 AM

Quote from: ardmhachaabu on June 05, 2010, 12:04:52 AM

Quote from: hardstation on June 04, 2010, 11:59:34 PM
Clark Kent.

You heading to Casement yourself on Sunday?

Aye.

Good man, I am going with the mrs and kids.  Will hopefully be in the open seating.  Say hello if you see me this time

I would have thought most neutrals would edge towards Armagh in this game.
McDonnell, these past 2 games, looks to be in tip top shape and would be the most likely factor to come up with the bit of extra class to tip the scales.
The ball is in Armagh's court, it's the sign of a good set up that they could regroup and gain promotion back to Div 1 easily enough, whereas Monaghan have shown some qualities in Div 1 but nothing yet to to be overly optimistic that they are going to batter the door down into Ulster this year. But we are continuing to do what we do, only better.
I think we are well capable of taking this game and I certainly hope the pieces fall into place.

Last year was a tight enough game and although McDonnell wasn't very attack orientated we were still in the game. Its amazing how a year has made all the difference, Monaghan will have Grimley in their corner which is an advtanage to them, however like Grimley has said he as not coached the majoirty of this Armagh team but even still he will know a bit about them.

Stevie is back in form twice the player he was last year. Would expect a tight game and I would put a bet on this game going to Extra Time.

Armagh's last couple of games against Down and Derry are encouraging enough, but with obvious issues needing to be improved. Monaghan will defend tenaciously, so Armagh need to break Tyrone style if the chance arises and absolutely avoid Donegal style faffing about. They also need to be disciplined and keep the head, avoid getting cards and avoid getting frees moved up etc. With a fit Ronan Clarke, I'd be confident, without it is balanced enough, but the extra games may be Armagh refine their game enough to win by a point or two. I don't see any advantage in ending u in the first round of the Qualifiers.

Quote from: PatDaly on June 05, 2010, 03:43:41 AM

Quote from: AFS on June 04, 2010, 11:36:15 PM

Quote from: mackers on June 04, 2010, 10:20:55 PM
Henderson is starting.......heard from a top source tonight.

Quote from: huggy2002 on orchard county forumjamie clarke starting on sunday lads just heard from a v reliable source.

Lots of sources floating about tonight  :D

I'll never understand why people post what is supposed to be closed door information regarding the Armagh team selection on this or any other website. How can people like this describe themselves as Armagh supporters? Even if you do have accurate team selection information why can't you shut your mouth or in this case refrain from the keyboard and keep this information private?

:D :D :D

Wise up.

I head from a very reliable source that very reliable sources are not very reliable.

Just thinking, do Donegal/Cavan/Monaghan ever win at Casement in the USFC?

Quote from: Aaron Boone on June 05, 2010, 08:51:32 PM
Just thinking, do Donegal/Cavan/Monaghan ever win at Casement in the USFC?

Monaghan won there on our last visit in 2007 against Derry.

100% championship record for Monaghan at Casement in the reign of Banty.

Quote from: eggy bread on June 05, 2010, 08:20:10 AM
Because the v reliable source is usually some gobshite who got a text from some gobshite pissed in a pub!!!


:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Aint that the truth.

i got a call from a mate that drinks in devvies last sat nite at 4:45 in the mornin, he swore up and down that Clarke was not only starting but was actually 100% fit and raring to go.

I trust the non drinkers in the armagh camp, and they are few and far between, Clarke will be ready to go at the AIQF stage potentially and not before.

Top (he is now) RTÉ football analyst Kevin McStay, after tipping Sligo to upset his own beloved Mayo in the CSFC, could be on a bit of a genius punditry roll this weekend.

On Monaghan v Armagh:
"This is the game of the weekend. I've tipped Monaghan to win Ulster. Armagh had a good win against Derry, but not an impressive win. They're relying far too much on Stevie McDonnell and Aaron Kernan."

"I'm looking forward to the Paul Grimley factor in this game. He's a former Armagh guy, and I'm really looking forward what subtle changes Monaghan are going to have that might get them to an Ulster final and win the title that I think they deserve."

Thanks Kevin, I appreciate the sentiments and the good will. One game at a time for us though, take your eye of the ball in Ulster and you'll get poleaxed.

Quote from: PatDaly on June 05, 2010, 03:43:41 AM

Quote from: AFS on June 04, 2010, 11:36:15 PM

Quote from: mackers on June 04, 2010, 10:20:55 PM
Henderson is starting.......heard from a top source tonight.

Quote from: huggy2002 on orchard county forumjamie clarke starting on sunday lads just heard from a v reliable source.

Lots of sources floating about tonight  :D

I'll never understand why people post what is supposed to be closed door information regarding the Armagh team selection on this or any other website. How can people like this describe themselves as Armagh supporters? Even if you do have accurate team selection information why can't you shut your mouth or in this case refrain from the keyboard and keep this information private?

Imagine speculating on the way the Armagh team will line up on the Gaaboard..........we should all be locked up. It's all part of the build up to a championship match. Think you need to lighten up a bit.

We'll see which source is the accurate one come 1.50 or so.  :P

Really hope J Clarke isnt playing from the start. I would much prefer to see them play as the game goes on. If Ronan Clarke is available for at least some part then first of all there wont be enough men to shackle Stevie because then there are three known threats up front. If they smother the one forward the other two have enough class to score. I fear Armagh are going to go all out from the start.


Also, is it a warm day in Belfast?

Fancy Monaghan to win today by 2, hope I'm wrong like I was against Derry.

any radio links for the game?

Tyrone women 0-05  Monaghan women 0-07

6 minutes gone - 2nd Half

Raining - fake tan getting all over the pitch.

Monaghan women 0-14  Tyrone women 1-10

Full Time

Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on June 06, 2010, 12:37:25 PM
Fancy Monaghan to win today by 2, hope I'm wrong like I was against Derry.

any radio links for the game?

Northern sound should be covering it from a totally unbiased rational perspective.

http://www.northernsound.ie/index.php (http://www.northernsound.ie/index.php)

But sadly there will be no interludes from reality with breakaway coverage of a simultaneous Cavan game.

I don't suppose there's a link to watch the game anywhere.

Both games were on here yesterday, not the best quality, but better than nothing.

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/rtotv1 (http://www.ustream.tv/channel/rtotv1)

Quote from: Carmen Stateside on June 06, 2010, 01:33:51 PM
Both games were on here yesterday, not the best quality, but better than nothing.

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/rtotv1 (http://www.ustream.tv/channel/rtotv1)

thanks, hope it works

wtf? hughes in goals? good man banty  :D

GAA Sunday – Live Scores & Results – 6th June

Ulster Senior Football Championship quarter-final
Monaghan 0-00 0-00 Armagh, Casement Park, 2.00pm

http://www.sportsnewsireland.com/2010/06/06/gaa-sunday-live-scores-results-6th-june/

Just his pride now, massively, and understandably so.

Quote from: Mac Eoghain on June 06, 2010, 01:50:27 PM
Is their sub-goalie injured?

Just said on RTE that the sub goalie left the panel this morning! No reason for that but might have taken it badly about a full back going into nets?

Quote from: tyroneboi on June 06, 2010, 01:56:07 PM

Quote from: Mac Eoghain on June 06, 2010, 01:50:27 PM
Is their sub-goalie injured?

Just said on RTE that the sub goalie left the panel this morning! No reason for that but might have taken it badly about a full back going into nets?

cant blame him for that!

Shane Duffy out injured, the sub goalie Gorman had left the panel this morning,
Darren Hughes moved from FB to goalie.

Owen Lennon starting.

It's all part of a plan, make it appear that your forces are in disarray, lure the opposition into a false sense of security.

Eoin Lennon at FB

Full confidence in Hughes in goals, played there before, has a huge kick and great hands. Just that he'a a big loss out the field.

Quote from: pintsofguinness on June 06, 2010, 01:35:18 PM

Quote from: Carmen Stateside on June 06, 2010, 01:33:51 PM
Both games were on here yesterday, not the best quality, but better than nothing.

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/rtotv1 (http://www.ustream.tv/channel/rtotv1)

thanks, hope it works

this link isnt looking good carmen, anything else?

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/rto-live-tv (http://www.ustream.tv/channel/rto-live-tv)
c'mon armagh

Quote from: Beo on June 06, 2010, 12:52:22 PM
Tyrone women 0-05  Monaghan women 0-07

6 minutes gone - 2nd Half

Raining - fake tan getting all over the pitch.

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Cards like confetti as expected, with not a bit of dirt, joke.

would he quit with the f**king cards

Soft card now for McDonnell.
Mallon red card for an ugly elbow to the head

Can't complain about the Monaghan approach so far, superbly prepared mentally and physically.

For f**k sake that was a perfectly legal shoulder never mind a red card. Gaelic is more or less non contact sport now.

Straight red for Mallon!

Monaghan had been getting yellows like it was going out of fashion but its Armagh down to 14. To be fair it was very reckless of Mallon.

Sludden to be fair has done OK, for a change.

Sludden = dickhead

this shite would put you off football.
probably a yellow card, should be the only yellow card in the game.
how many have we had, must be 5 or 6?

Quote from: sandwiches_in_the_boot on June 06, 2010, 02:39:09 PM
Straight red for Mallon!

Monaghan had been getting yellows like it was going out of fashion but its Armagh down to 14. To be fair it was very reckless of Mallon.

Sludden to be fair has done OK, for a change.

How was it reckless, shoulder to shoulder. Hospital pass to woods and Mallon lined him up with a fair shoulder. Nothing wrong with it. Its a joke how soft gaelic has got.

At the game. Standing behind the linesman. Harsh decision. Looked accidental. Mallon was watching the ball.

Quote from: pintsofguinness on June 06, 2010, 02:40:47 PM
this shite would put you off football.
probably a yellow card, should be the only yellow card in the game.
how many have we had, must be 5 or 6?

At least Hurling is still a mans game

Quote from: JimStynes on June 06, 2010, 02:41:31 PM

Quote from: sandwiches_in_the_boot on June 06, 2010, 02:39:09 PM
Straight red for Mallon!

Monaghan had been getting yellows like it was going out of fashion but its Armagh down to 14. To be fair it was very reckless of Mallon.

Sludden to be fair has done OK, for a change.

How was it reckless, shoulder to shoulder. Hospital pass to woods and Mallon lined him up with a fair shoulder. Nothing wrong with it. Its a joke how soft gaelic has got.

Shoulder to shoulder is one thing, going in full charge with your elbow up is dangerous. You wouldn't be saying that if it was you lying flat out after that.

Sludden is a disgrace. As in anyone who appoints him to referee any game at any level.
Brian Mallon would'nt bite you, there was no intent in that tackle.

Damian Freeman has been excellent so far, considering it's his first real game.
No soft goal conceded before 1/2 time by Monaghan, could be ominous.

Dickhead Coldrick told Sludden to put him off, not that Sludden would've needed much convincing.

Martin and Mackin two passengers for Armagh. Not looking good, struggling big time around the middle. Stevie is on fire but we can't get the ball to him.

Quote from: sandwiches_in_the_boot on June 06, 2010, 02:42:51 PM

Quote from: JimStynes on June 06, 2010, 02:41:31 PM

Quote from: sandwiches_in_the_boot on June 06, 2010, 02:39:09 PM
Straight red for Mallon!

Monaghan had been getting yellows like it was going out of fashion but its Armagh down to 14. To be fair it was very reckless of Mallon.

Sludden to be fair has done OK, for a change.

How was it reckless, shoulder to shoulder. Hospital pass to woods and Mallon lined him up with a fair shoulder. Nothing wrong with it. Its a joke how soft gaelic has got.

Shoulder to shoulder is one thing, going in full charge with your elbow up is dangerous. You wouldn't be saying that if it was you lying flat out after that.

f**k sake he went shoulder to shoulder with him and woods wasnt ready for it, thats why he got hurt. Them sort of shoulders happen week in week out. I would say if you asked Rory Woods after the game if it was a red card he would say no.

Quote from: Main Street on June 06, 2010, 02:44:05 PM
Damian Freeman has been excellent so far, considering it's his first real game.
No soft goal conceded before 1/2 time by Monaghan, could be ominous.

Indeed, has been our undoing in an awful lot of games. Just hope we can keep it that way.

Decent game so far, once Monaghan got up to pace they were the only team in it.  Armaghs midfield is non existent.  Sludden doing his best to destroy it, never a Red card and several of Monaghans bookings have been soft.  Woods has made an impression since coming on, and he looks to have lost some weight since he was out here last year.
Brolly reckons Sludden like an orange march going through casement. 

Woods took Martin out with a high forearm after Martin caught a ball in midfield.
Monaghan got a free! Which they scored Very inconsistent

If it was shoulder to shoulder it would be fair but connecting with the elbow to the face is not shoulder to shoulder FFS..

Can't say i'm not enjoying Sludden getting found out on a national scale!

;D

Mallon still deserved to go.

Same as, keep it going Joe :D

Quote from: sandwiches_in_the_boot on June 06, 2010, 02:49:59 PM
Can't say i'm not enjoying Sludden getting found out on a national scale!

;D

Mallon still deserved to go.

You'd know more about a pan loaf saan

Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on June 06, 2010, 02:49:39 PM
If it was shoulder to shoulder it would be fair but connecting with the elbow to the face is not shoulder to shoulder FFS..

Ageed. After watching it in slow mo i have no doubt that it was a red card!

Mallon's tackle should have been yelllow at worst.
Sludden was found out long ago.

I agree yellow at worst he was commited to the tackle and Woods turned into it at the last second.

Am in the corner here at Casement and it looked at fair hit. Andy's getting roasted at the back though. All to do now in the 2nd half. Why was Woods taken off again?

Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on June 06, 2010, 02:49:39 PM
If it was shoulder to shoulder it would be fair but connecting with the elbow to the face is not shoulder to shoulder FFS..

no one is saying it was shoulder to shoulder, it was mistimed. Yellow card at worst.

It's not just sludden - he's clearly only doing what he's told

Quote from: Ulick on June 06, 2010, 02:53:51 PM
Am in the corner here at Casement and it looked at fair hit. Andy's getting roasted at the back though. All to do now in the 2nd half. Why was Woods taken off again?

Nose busted open

Is Sludden being told something other that Pat McEnaney?

Quote from: Benny Barnaveld on June 06, 2010, 02:55:51 PM
Is Sludden being told something other that Pat McEnaney?

Someone said on the board last week that Mcenaney refs with a bit of common sense because he knows he won't get dropped and he's not worried about pleasing them. They were spot on.


Think armagh could get quite a beating here.

Young Mc Manus is playing well, Hanratty can't even hold on to the ball.
Love to see a good hit but their was a hint of elbow in there=Red Card

Quote from: pintsofguinness on June 06, 2010, 02:54:22 PM

Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on June 06, 2010, 02:49:39 PM
If it was shoulder to shoulder it would be fair but connecting with the elbow to the face is not shoulder to shoulder FFS..

no one is saying it was shoulder to shoulder, it was mistimed. Yellow card at worst.

It's not just sludden - he's clearly only doing what he's told

I like the way u say yellow card at worst, do you think there was a case for it not even being a yellow??

Red card all day long

Do Armagh actually have any "footballer" in their team??? No midfield, one forward and backs who are getting taken apart even whenever they have to mark one on one....

Encouraging start to the second half, exactly what we needed. Need to keep it up for the whole half though.

Quote from: Boycey on June 06, 2010, 02:58:14 PM

Quote from: pintsofguinness on June 06, 2010, 02:54:22 PM

Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on June 06, 2010, 02:49:39 PM
If it was shoulder to shoulder it would be fair but connecting with the elbow to the face is not shoulder to shoulder FFS..

no one is saying it was shoulder to shoulder, it was mistimed. Yellow card at worst.

It's not just sludden - he's clearly only doing what he's told

I like the way u say yellow card at worst, do you think there was a case for it not even being a yellow??

Red card all day long

I think it was a yellow. 30 years ago he'd be lucky to get a free

3 points for sludden. f**king cheating ****!

What about Armagh getting completely hammered here!  How can Kernans be yellow card and Mallons a red card.

Quote from: pintsofguinness on June 06, 2010, 03:01:46 PM

Quote from: Boycey on June 06, 2010, 02:58:14 PM

Quote from: pintsofguinness on June 06, 2010, 02:54:22 PM

Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on June 06, 2010, 02:49:39 PM
If it was shoulder to shoulder it would be fair but connecting with the elbow to the face is not shoulder to shoulder FFS..

no one is saying it was shoulder to shoulder, it was mistimed. Yellow card at worst.

It's not just sludden - he's clearly only doing what he's told

I like the way u say yellow card at worst, do you think there was a case for it not even being a yellow??

Red card all day long

I think it was a yellow. 30 years ago he'd be lucky to get a free

5 Years ago he would have been lucky to get a free

Jarlath Burns - "Aaron came in a wee bit late" - it was a third man tackle, there is no late or early

I'm the first to criticise refs for taking the physicality out of the game but if Mallon stayed on for that he would have been very lucky. I reckon there was no malicious intent but his elbow caught Woods hard in the face so red was probably correct.

I thought in the first 10 minutes this ref was going to be ok but he is hopeless.

Quote from: pintsofguinness on June 06, 2010, 03:01:46 PM

Quote from: Boycey on June 06, 2010, 02:58:14 PM

Quote from: pintsofguinness on June 06, 2010, 02:54:22 PM

Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on June 06, 2010, 02:49:39 PM
If it was shoulder to shoulder it would be fair but connecting with the elbow to the face is not shoulder to shoulder FFS..

no one is saying it was shoulder to shoulder, it was mistimed. Yellow card at worst.

It's not just sludden - he's clearly only doing what he's told

I like the way u say yellow card at worst, do you think there was a case for it not even being a yellow??

Red card all day long

I think it was a yellow. 30 years ago he'd be lucky to get a free

Unfortunately that a lot of the football from 30 years ago isn't allowed anymore or certain tough guys and certain corner forwards wouldn't be surviving that well...

I see a Palestinian flag behind the goals, same as the Sligo - Mayo match last night. Is the guy with John 3:7 changing his message??

Quote from: glens73 on June 06, 2010, 03:05:30 PM
I see a Palestinian flag behind the goals, same as the Sligo - Mayo match last night. Is the guy with John 3:7 changing his message??

Yeah - fair play to them. They're positioned nicely for the cameras.

you can't go for the ball now either


only good thing from this game, from armagh point of view, is Jamie clarke.

Whatever about the red card, Sludden is an absolute f*cking idiot with these bookings.

Muineachán kicking a lotof wides, they should be outof sight.  Ard Mhacha are commode, still too dependant on Stevie McD

Quote from: glens73 on June 06, 2010, 03:05:30 PM
I see a Palestinian flag behind the goals, same as the Sligo - Mayo match last night. Is the guy with John 3:7 changing his message??

Sludden enjoys the controversy as much as Israel.

That Kieran Toner booking was ridiculous.

Quote from: Schkite on June 06, 2010, 03:11:54 PM
Whatever about the red card, Sludden is an absolute f*cking idiot with these bookings.

Agree the vast majority of yellow cards are a bloody joke...

4 creamy points for Monaghan.

What a score for Finlay.

Some scores from Monaghan, by far the better team. They have the belief.

Finlay has been excllent.

armagh clueless and didn't come out at half time.

Armagh completely hammered and even before the sending off Monaghan were starting to run riot. Ryan Henderson should have been brought on 15 mins ago.

5 minutes left, I think I can relax now.
Almost hoarse roaring at the screen

If I was paying McGurn's wages I woukd ask for refund

Looks like POR spent halftime talking about pride in the jersey instead of devising a plan to get Monaghan men sent off then taking it from there.

Not all the manager's fault obviously, but this performance smells so much of Down in the early noughties it's not funny.

You can forgive the new kids getting hammered but even Armaghs so called stars are getting wee boys made out of them.  McKeever chasing shadows all day.

Armagh fans piling out the exits with 10 mins to go and Fearon's unmistakeable torso among them.

Quote from: Benny Barnaveld on June 06, 2010, 03:30:14 PM
If I was paying McGurn's wages I woukd ask for refund

Mike McGurn has nothing to do with the lack of heart Armagh showed.

Quote from: barelegs on June 06, 2010, 03:33:31 PM

Quote from: Benny Barnaveld on June 06, 2010, 03:30:14 PM
If I was paying McGurn's wages I woukd ask for refund

Mike McGurn has nothing to do with the lack of heart Armagh showed.

No he didnt. But the fact Armagh were knackered after 45 mins

Dick Clerkin putting on an exhibtion of scoring there!  ;D

Absolutely fantastic win, not only that but the performance aswell. Hopefully that will shut up some of the doom merchants who were putting us down and saying we'd turn it into a dour game.

what was the final score?

Great win for Monaghan, look like real contenders for Ulster.

Once Monaghan scored the goal they were the better team, pushing forward at every opportunity to press home the advantage.
Taking a long breather might be a question in the 2nd half.
The sending off was irrelevant as to who was going to go through.
Banty was ruthless in making the sub changes right from the middle of the first half.
The squad has strength in depth now.

Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on June 06, 2010, 03:37:14 PM
what was the final score?

1-18 to 0-9

Quote from: Catch the high ball on June 06, 2010, 03:37:36 PM
Great win for Monaghan, look like real contenders for Ulster.

They looked like AI contenders, they will win Ulster.

Grimley had Monaghan well schooled on us and I hope to God we don't get Mayo in the back door.

Mickey mouse defending, no midfield and one forward, not close to good enough.

I have been watching gaelic football for nigh on forty years and have never seen a worse reffing performance in my life, Sludden made Gough look good and thats hard to do.

Quote from: Catch the high ball on June 06, 2010, 03:37:36 PM
Great win for Monaghan, look like real contenders for Ulster.

On the basis of a 5 minute spell before armagh were down to 14 and 35mins with an extra man? They won't play as well this year again. IMO they wont beat tyrone or down (assuming they beat cavan or fermanagh).

A lot of Pidgeons came home to roost for Aramgh today.
One the sideline and on the field.
Too many poor performances to pick anyone out. Very disapointed

what a great day. could not have happened to a worse shower of bastids.  ;D

Quote from: anportmorforjfc on June 06, 2010, 03:47:49 PM

Quote from: Catch the high ball on June 06, 2010, 03:37:36 PM
Great win for Monaghan, look like real contenders for Ulster.

On the basis of a 5 minute spell before armagh were down to 14 and 35mins with an extra man? They won't play as well this year again. IMO they wont beat tyrone or down (assuming they beat cavan or fermanagh).

Think they'll give ulster a rattle but are no world beaters, armagh were atrocious.

Quote from: stew on June 06, 2010, 03:44:40 PM

Quote from: Catch the high ball on June 06, 2010, 03:37:36 PM
Great win for Monaghan, look like real contenders for Ulster.

They looked like AI contenders, they will win Ulster.

Grimley had Monaghan well schooled on us and I hope to God we don't get Mayo in the back door.

Mickey mouse defending, no midfield and one forward, not close to good enough.

I have been watching gaelic football for nigh on forty years and have never seen a worse reffing performance in my life, Sludden made Gough look good and thats hard to do.

I bet you've not seen many worse Armagh performances

Quote from: Main Street on June 06, 2010, 03:38:41 PM
Once Monaghan scored the goal they were the better team, pushing forward at every opportunity to press home the advantage.
Taking a long breather might be a question in the 2nd half.
The sending off was irrelevant as to who was going to go through.
Banty was ruthless in making the sub changes right from the middle of the first half.
The squad has strength in depth now.

How can you say the sending off was irrelevant?

Quote from: anportmorforjfc on June 06, 2010, 03:47:49 PM

Quote from: Catch the high ball on June 06, 2010, 03:37:36 PM
Great win for Monaghan, look like real contenders for Ulster.

On the basis of a 5 minute spell before armagh were down to 14 and 35mins with an extra man? They won't play as well this year again. IMO they wont beat tyrone or down (assuming they beat cavan or fermanagh).

Jesus is it that wrong to call a team Ulster contenders after an impressive win?  ::)

Get those sour grapes out of your mouth there.

Quote from: Boycey on June 06, 2010, 03:57:21 PM

Quote from: stew on June 06, 2010, 03:49:41 PM

Quote from: charlieTully on June 06, 2010, 03:48:40 PM
what a great day. could not have happened to a worse shower of bastids.  ;D

w**ker

Ur a wild man. U were on an another thread goading someone all got all righteous when he responded with personal abuse but it's ok for u to call someone a w**ker.... Double standards??

Sure he doesn't even live in this country.

I noticed this is one Stew's traits

Quote from: Sam of the Sarsfields on June 06, 2010, 03:54:35 PM

Quote from: Main Street on June 06, 2010, 03:38:41 PM
Once Monaghan scored the goal they were the better team, pushing forward at every opportunity to press home the advantage.
Taking a long breather might be a question in the 2nd half.
The sending off was irrelevant as to who was going to go through.
Banty was ruthless in making the sub changes right from the middle of the first half.
The squad has strength in depth now.

How can you say the sending off was irrelevant?

???
"irrelevant as to who was going to go through"
Monaghan had the beating of Armagh on the day, red card or no red card.

cant believe the amount of peole who think that the red card was the correct call!
:-\

never a  red in my opinion, slightly late, yellow card.
far too many cards all round today, but suose thats sludden for ye

Quote from: Sam of the Sarsfields on June 06, 2010, 03:58:58 PM

Quote from: Boycey on June 06, 2010, 03:57:21 PM

Quote from: stew on June 06, 2010, 03:49:41 PM

Quote from: charlieTully on June 06, 2010, 03:48:40 PM
what a great day. could not have happened to a worse shower of bastids.  ;D

w**ker

Ur a wild man. U were on an another thread goading someone all got all righteous when he responded with personal abuse but it's ok for u to call someone a w**ker.... Double standards??

Sure he doesn't even live in this country.

A lot of people on this board don't live in ireland, what's your point?

Congratulations Monaghan, completely blew Armagh away. Biggest defeat we have had in a few years.

Armagh REALLY missing out on Grimley, bet the county board are reeling, and so they should be!

Fair play to Monaghan, blew us out of the water. I'd have fancied them to do well before today and after that they should be there or there abouts come September. Was worried that we showed no fight when the chips were down, its bad enough getting beat but when the heads drop so easily it makes it that we bit worse. Need more runners in the team, direct ball is good but today further highlighted the over-reliance on McDonnell.

Good luck to Monaghan would like to see them win it now!

Quote from: anportmorforjfc on June 06, 2010, 03:47:49 PM

Quote from: Catch the high ball on June 06, 2010, 03:37:36 PM
Great win for Monaghan, look like real contenders for Ulster.

On the basis of a 5 minute spell before armagh were down to 14 and 35mins with an extra man? They won't play as well this year again. IMO they wont beat tyrone or down (assuming they beat cavan or fermanagh).

Monaghan don't necessarily need to play as well as they did today to win Ulster. They don't need to win games by 12 points to progress through the Championship. Monaghan may not win Ulster (although that should definitely be the priority) although I'm not sure what you've seen from Down or Tyrone to make you think that Monaghan aren't in there with a very good chance.

Great game from Monaghan and given the number of wides in the second half, the final score didn't flatter them in the slightest. Roll on the semi-final!

Armagh are in no means as bad as what todays scoreline suggests! As a neutral the sending off definitely had a bearing on the game but im not sure if Armagh wouldve even coped with Monaghan having 15!
Stop Stevie McDonnell & you will beat Armagh. They badly need Ronan Clarke back fit as apart from McDonnell they have nobody outside Jamie Clarke who asks questions of defences.
Brian Mallon definitely was unlucky to walk Yellow Card if anything but Aaron Kernan was probably not sent off because Martin Sludden realised he wouldve got a lot of abuse after sending Mallon off in the 1st half.
Armagh struggled at someone actually playing on there sweeper & thought Ciaran McKeever had a very off day , Finlay ran the show.
O'Rourke will be wondering why his team dissapeared after the sending off but in my opinion Armagh are still a team in transition.........If you took McDonnell out of that team you would struggle to see where the scores would come from.

http://www.youtube.com/user/UlsterGAA// - 'Goalkeeper' Darren Hughes is interviewed right at the final whistle after his debut between the sticks. Remarkably, Darren kept a clean sheet against Stevie Mac & Co. Here, he salutes his defence and the Farney Army who were chanting his name. Interestingly, Darren does not rule out wearing the No 1 jersey again..

Quote from: Any craic on June 06, 2010, 05:33:12 PM
http://www.youtube.com/user/UlsterGAA// - 'Goalkeeper' Darren Hughes is interviewed right at the final whistle after his debut between the sticks. Remarkably, Darren kept a clean sheet against Stevie Mac & Co. Here, he salutes his defence and the Farney Army who were chanting his name. Interestingly, Darren does not rule out wearing the No 1 jersey again..

To be fair a FB already possesses most of the key GK skills, as Hughes showed today. He came out at the right time to meet the ball, knocked it down to his own players, made his presence felt. Still did very well considering though.

You have got to feel for the sub goalie today who was dished the ultimate dirt.
Training hard all year and then to be told by your manager that an outfield player would make a better goalie than you!!!!
He had no choice other than walk.
Why did Banty have him in the panel when its now clear he had little intention of ever playing him?

The Marshes in March all over again. No doubt beaten by the better team on the day, but a raping from Sludden culminating in a ridiculously harsh red card made sure we were never in the game.

Just like that game in Newry, the management have to hold their hands up. There were bad selection decisions, which left the defense unbalance with too many mismatches. It was obvious from 10 minutes in that certain players weren't at the races, yet they waited until half time, when the game was all but gone, to do anything about it. But at the same time there's not a lot you can do when there isn't a half forward worth a shite about the place. Rory Grugan can't grow up quickly enough.

We're nowhere near that bad, and although impressive today, Monaghan are nowhere near that good. That said, we're definitely a good distance off the top table. Watching those two teams in Kerry on TV, I wouldn't say with any confidence that we'd be within single figures of either. The accepted wisdom around the county at the end of last Summer was that the road back to the top was going to take a few years, but maybe a lot of us may have lost sight of that after a bit of decent form this Spring. It'll probably take the injection of new blood from last years minors to get us back near where we want to be.

At least this year's minors look half decent.

Quote from: Gaffer on June 06, 2010, 05:50:42 PM
lYou hae got to feel for the sub goalie today who was dished the ultimate dirt.
Training hard all year and then to be told by your manager that an outfield player would make a better goalie than you!!!!
He had no choice other than walk.
Why did Banty have him in the panel when its now clear he had little intention of ever playing him?

A low blow alright, must have been a hard pill to swallow.

Armagh looked to be cruising in the first quarter of this game, McDonnell was his usual self and POR seemed content enough on the line. Armagh supporters can blame McGurn, O`Rourke,Sludden or even Grimley for their hammering today, but the truth is that they have nothing other than Stevie. They were very lucky to finish with 14 players, Kernan should surely have got the line for his challenge on Woods. Their fantastic supporters must have been in a hurry to get home to see the Kerry game, they left early enough.  :D
Monaghan must surely be odds on favourites for Ulster now, that was an awesome display. They have an easy enough semi and should be too strong for either Tyrone or Down.

Quote from: charlieTully on June 06, 2010, 03:48:40 PM
what a great day. could not have happened to a worse shower of bastids.  ;D

just shows what kind of supporters DOWN have 

QuoteThe Marshes in March all over again. No doubt beaten by the better team on the day, but a raping from Sludden culminating in a ridiculously harsh red card made sure we were never in the game.

the 2005 delusionalism lives on!  ;D

Quote from: under the bar on June 06, 2010, 06:00:29 PM

QuoteThe Marshes in March all over again. No doubt beaten by the better team on the day, but a raping from Sludden culminating in a ridiculously harsh red card made sure we were never in the game.

the 2005 delusionalism lives on!  ;D

What was the ref at? Sending a man off for elbowing an opponent in the head  ::)

Banty said on rte that it was the toughest decision he ever had to make, re the goalkeeper selection. He said he called Darren Hughes last night and Darren said  'yes, wherever you want me to play'.
That's the spirit.

 

Quote from: omagh_gael on June 06, 2010, 05:56:38 PM

Quote from: Gaffer on June 06, 2010, 05:50:42 PM
lYou hae got to feel for the sub goalie today who was dished the ultimate dirt.
Training hard all year and then to be told by your manager that an outfield player would make a better goalie than you!!!!
He had no choice other than walk.
Why did Banty have him in the panel when its now clear he had little intention of ever playing him?

A low blow alright, must have been a hard pill to swallow.

Did the second choice keeper leave the panel post that decision? You can understand why as it's a real confidence clinker.

Quote from: Down South on June 06, 2010, 05:57:02 PM
Armagh looked to be cruising in the first quarter of this game, McDonnell was his usual self and POR seemed content enough on the line. Armagh supporters can blame McGurn, O`Rourke,Sludden or even Grimley for their hammering today, but the truth is that they have nothing other than Stevie. They were very lucky to finish with 14 players, Kernan should surely have got the line for his challenge on Woods. Their fantastic supporters must have been in a hurry to get home to see the Kerry game, they left early enough.  :D
Monaghan must surely be odds on favourites for Ulster now, that was an awesome display. They have an easy enough semi and should be too strong for either Tyrone or Down.

Awesome display with an extra player for half the game. if tyrone/down have 15 men on the field i dont see monaghan playing that well again.

I missed this game. What's the story about Darren Hughes? Was he in nets?? What's going on there??

Quote from: Norf Tyrone on June 06, 2010, 06:14:06 PM

Quote from: omagh_gael on June 06, 2010, 05:56:38 PM

Quote from: Gaffer on June 06, 2010, 05:50:42 PM
lYou hae got to feel for the sub goalie today who was dished the ultimate dirt.
Training hard all year and then to be told by your manager that an outfield player would make a better goalie than you!!!!
He had no choice other than walk.
Why did Banty have him in the panel when its now clear he had little intention of ever playing him?

A low blow alright, must have been a hard pill to swallow.

Did the second choice keeper leave the panel post that decision? You can understand why as it's a real confidence clinker.

According to an aunt of mine, from the same area of Monaghan as Gorman (sub keeper), that was the reason Norf

Quote from: anportmorforjfc on June 06, 2010, 06:17:32 PM

Quote from: Down South on June 06, 2010, 05:57:02 PM
Armagh looked to be cruising in the first quarter of this game, McDonnell was his usual self and POR seemed content enough on the line. Armagh supporters can blame McGurn, O`Rourke,Sludden or even Grimley for their hammering today, but the truth is that they have nothing other than Stevie. They were very lucky to finish with 14 players, Kernan should surely have got the line for his challenge on Woods. Their fantastic supporters must have been in a hurry to get home to see the Kerry game, they left early enough.  :D
Monaghan must surely be odds on favourites for Ulster now, that was an awesome display. They have an easy enough semi and should be too strong for either Tyrone or Down.

Awesome display with an extra player for half the game. if tyrone/down have 15 men on the field i dont see monaghan playing that well again.

Down looked like world beaters when playing a 14 man Armagh too. We can barely get enough scores with 15 on the field, and we're utterly hopeless with 14. We've no consistent scoring threat outside of the full forward line. When an opponent gets an extra man they can afford to drop him back and mop up in front of McDonnell. Take him out of the equation and we're toothless. There are very few teams in the country that wouldn't beat a 14 man Armagh side.

Quote from: Norf Tyrone on June 06, 2010, 06:14:06 PM

Quote from: omagh_gael on June 06, 2010, 05:56:38 PM

Quote from: Gaffer on June 06, 2010, 05:50:42 PM
lYou hae got to feel for the sub goalie today who was dished the ultimate dirt.
Training hard all year and then to be told by your manager that an outfield player would make a better goalie than you!!!!
He had no choice other than walk.
Why did Banty have him in the panel when its now clear he had little intention of ever playing him?

A low blow alright, must have been a hard pill to swallow.

Did the second choice keeper leave the panel post that decision? You can understand why as it's a real confidence clinker.

Yes.

Agree with Gaffer, not sure why Banty had him in the team when he wouldn't rely on him for games like this. IMO there's better keepers in Monaghan who declined for one reason or another but that's besides the point. A great win for Monaghan but still very tough on Gorman. Doesn't make it any easier I'm sure that Hughes actually had a fine game.

Quote from: Norf Tyrone on June 06, 2010, 06:14:06 PM

Quote from: omagh_gael on June 06, 2010, 05:56:38 PM

Quote from: Gaffer on June 06, 2010, 05:50:42 PM
lYou hae got to feel for the sub goalie today who was dished the ultimate dirt.
Training hard all year and then to be told by your manager that an outfield player would make a better goalie than you!!!!
He had no choice other than walk.
Why did Banty have him in the panel when its now clear he had little intention of ever playing him?

A low blow alright, must have been a hard pill to swallow.

Did the second choice keeper leave the panel post that decision? You can understand why as it's a real confidence clinker.

I can understand there was a reason but I don't support him leaving the panel and not taking his place on the bench.
There was also a sound reason why Banty chose to take off one of our better players  away from the defense and use him to replace Duffy instead of using the sub goalie.

what about hanratty giving McKeever the slip to set up the goal, quality, how i laughed. i am going to have to get this grin surgically removed.

Quote from: charlieTully on June 06, 2010, 06:45:35 PM
what about haratty giving McKeever the slip to set up the goal, quality, how i laughed. i am going to have to get this grin surgically removed.

You'll probably lose it in a couple of weeks.

Quote from: Any craic on June 06, 2010, 05:33:12 PM
http://www.youtube.com/user/UlsterGAA// - 'Goalkeeper' Darren Hughes is interviewed right at the final whistle after his debut between the sticks. Remarkably, Darren kept a clean sheet against Stevie Mac & Co. Here, he salutes his defence and the Farney Army who were chanting his name. Interestingly, Darren does not rule out wearing the No 1 jersey again..

Monaghan fans behind the goals chanting "Hughesy" after the game, I'd say that was the Scotstown boys! I'm sure Darren enjoyed that!  :D

charlie tully, give the keyboard a rest. People might start to associate you with us!

Really gutted after today. Fair play to Monaghan they probably would have went on to win but the sending off was a massive aid. Brian Mallon had been influential in setting up 2 or 3 scores before being sent off.

I don't think anyone (well not me anyway) is thinking if only we had Grimley. He made his decision and things move on. Have been to every Armagh game this year and with the esceptionof today and Marshes they have played really well. We'll see where qualifiers take us

Should Clarke be fit to start on the 26th?

Jaysus that was some hammering.

How bad must Derry be.

Flip.

After 15 minutes, I thought this was gonna be another great day in the sun. The Monaghan goal stopped the Armagh thrust, then the sending off put us in reverse.

I hope that Monaghan can improve and go on to win Ulster.

Quote from: Main Street on June 06, 2010, 06:34:19 PM

Quote from: Norf Tyrone on June 06, 2010, 06:14:06 PM

Quote from: omagh_gael on June 06, 2010, 05:56:38 PM

Quote from: Gaffer on June 06, 2010, 05:50:42 PM
lYou hae got to feel for the sub goalie today who was dished the ultimate dirt.
Training hard all year and then to be told by your manager that an outfield player would make a better goalie than you!!!!
He had no choice other than walk.
Why did Banty have him in the panel when its now clear he had little intention of ever playing him?

A low blow alright, must have been a hard pill to swallow.

Did the second choice keeper leave the panel post that decision? You can understand why as it's a real confidence clinker.

I can understand there was a reason but I don't support him leaving the panel and not taking his place on the bench.
There was also a sound reason why Banty chose to take off one of our better players  away from the defense and use him to replace Duffy instead of using the sub goalie.

Height of disrespect for the player involved and Banty is lucky Monaghan won otherwise there would be hell to pay. I know myself I'd have walked.

Shows how good a coach Grimley is. Kildare a shambles since he left and now Monaghan now look like a genuine football team unlike previous years. Armagh were appalling. Their players gave up. Similar to Mayo yesterday.

Difficult to know where to start.............only Paul Duffy and Brendan Donaghy in defence can hold their head up. Andy mallon who has always been one of the rocks in our defence is having a very poor year. Our midfield was cleaned out up until James Lavery came on and fetched a few balls for us.
Stevie enjoyed his opening 15 minutes and banished the scars of last year but as AFS says once we went down to 14 men Monaghan had three defenders on Stevie at times. Jaimie Clarke will be a star in the future and showed some class at times. After the three handy points we gifted Monaghan after HT the warning lights were flashing for a complete tanking. We had a few chances just after that to make a game of it but took none of them.
The "sending off incident" happened just in front of us and Mallon was clearly going for the ball, mistimed his challenge and would've deserved a yellow at most, couldn't believe when the red was flashed. I've always associated Meath men with hard physical football but the sort of decision that Coldrick made is ruining our game, lads will start to duck out of making physical challenges as they will be afraid that any slight mistiming of a challenge will see them sent off.
That said, Monaghan deserved to win and I hope they go on to win the Ulster now.
Armagh will hopefully get a handy draw in the qualifiers (we're owed one), definitely don't want an Ulster team. Hope the management learn from their mistakes today.

Quote from: dodgy umpire on June 06, 2010, 08:09:37 PM
charlie tully, give the keyboard a rest. People might start to associate you with us!

Must second that.  Agreed Armagh were soundly beaten today but Down also know that feeling all too well.
Tully: - put a sock in it until Down have some to Crow about

Quote from: hardstation on June 06, 2010, 09:40:08 PM

Quote from: Take Your Points on June 06, 2010, 09:32:27 PM
Is the well executed shoulder charge now a bookable offence?

Agreed. Very poor decision.

elbow was high.

Quote from: hardstation on June 06, 2010, 09:43:49 PM

Quote from: INDIANA on June 06, 2010, 09:41:54 PM

Quote from: hardstation on June 06, 2010, 09:40:08 PM

Quote from: Take Your Points on June 06, 2010, 09:32:27 PM
Is the well executed shoulder charge now a bookable offence?

Agreed. Very poor decision.

elbow was high.

Stevie McDonell's booking? Bollicks.

thought you were talking about mallon.

I thought in real time that it deserved a yellow card as there was no malice. But it wasn't a fair shoulder charge. He went in with the arm and caught Woods in the face - clearly evident from his nosebleed. There's no way it was a legal shoulder charge. Whether it was a red or a yellow offence should be the only debate.

Quote from: Maguire01 on June 06, 2010, 09:46:46 PM
I thought in real time that it deserved a yellow card as there was no malice. But it wasn't a fair shoulder charge. He went in with the arm and caught Woods in the face - clearly evident from his nosebleed. There's no way it was a legal shoulder charge. Whether it was a red or a yellow offence should be the only debate.

I agree Maguire. I thought the ref got it right.

Quote from: Boycey on June 06, 2010, 03:57:21 PM

Quote from: stew on June 06, 2010, 03:49:41 PM

Quote from: charlieTully on June 06, 2010, 03:48:40 PM
what a great day. could not have happened to a worse shower of bastids.  ;D

w**ker

Ur a wild man. U were on an another thread goading someone and got all righteous when he responded with personal abuse but it's ok for u to call someone a w**ker.... Double standards??

I didnt post it, the mate over from Boston did,I just saw it and removed it.

Quote from: INDIANA on June 06, 2010, 09:51:14 PM

Quote from: Maguire01 on June 06, 2010, 09:46:46 PM
I thought in real time that it deserved a yellow card as there was no malice. But it wasn't a fair shoulder charge. He went in with the arm and caught Woods in the face - clearly evident from his nosebleed. There's no way it was a legal shoulder charge. Whether it was a red or a yellow offence should be the only debate.

I agree Maguire. I thought the ref got it right.

I agree. Definite red.

Quote from: INDIANA on June 06, 2010, 09:14:28 PM

Quote from: Main Street on June 06, 2010, 06:34:19 PM

Quote from: Norf Tyrone on June 06, 2010, 06:14:06 PM

Quote from: omagh_gael on June 06, 2010, 05:56:38 PM

Quote from: Gaffer on June 06, 2010, 05:50:42 PM
lYou hae got to feel for the sub goalie today who was dished the ultimate dirt.
Training hard all year and then to be told by your manager that an outfield player would make a better goalie than you!!!!
He had no choice other than walk.
Why did Banty have him in the panel when its now clear he had little intention of ever playing him?

A low blow alright, must have been a hard pill to swallow.

Did the second choice keeper leave the panel post that decision? You can understand why as it's a real confidence clinker.

I can understand there was a reason but I don't support him leaving the panel and not taking his place on the bench.
There was also a sound reason why Banty chose to take off one of our better players  away from the defense and use him to replace Duffy instead of using the sub goalie.

Height of disrespect for the player involved and Banty is lucky Monaghan won otherwise there would be hell to pay. I know myself I'd have walked.

Spoofing about some event you haven't got a clue about, again.
Somethings never change, some people never grow up, chronically incapable of a mature reflection.

Quote from: Main Street on June 06, 2010, 03:59:38 PM

Quote from: Sam of the Sarsfields on June 06, 2010, 03:54:35 PM

Quote from: Main Street on June 06, 2010, 03:38:41 PM
Once Monaghan scored the goal they were the better team, pushing forward at every opportunity to press home the advantage.
Taking a long breather might be a question in the 2nd half.
The sending off was irrelevant as to who was going to go through.
Banty was ruthless in making the sub changes right from the middle of the first half.
The squad has strength in depth now.

How can you say the sending off was irrelevant?

???
"irrelevant as to who was going to go through"
Monaghan had the beating of Armagh on the day, red card or no red card.

Armagh were slight favourites going into the game, they controlled the first 15 minutes and Monaghan were on top for the second 15 minutes, then we had the sending off. How you can say the result was certain at that point is ridiculous, Armagh were very much in the game at that stage and the red card had a huge bearing on the outcome.

Quote from: Main Street on June 06, 2010, 10:03:12 PM

Quote from: INDIANA on June 06, 2010, 09:14:28 PM

Quote from: Main Street on June 06, 2010, 06:34:19 PM

Quote from: Norf Tyrone on June 06, 2010, 06:14:06 PM

Quote from: omagh_gael on June 06, 2010, 05:56:38 PM

Quote from: Gaffer on June 06, 2010, 05:50:42 PM
lYou hae got to feel for the sub goalie today who was dished the ultimate dirt.
Training hard all year and then to be told by your manager that an outfield player would make a better goalie than you!!!!
He had no choice other than walk.
Why did Banty have him in the panel when its now clear he had little intention of ever playing him?

A low blow alright, must have been a hard pill to swallow.

Did the second choice keeper leave the panel post that decision? You can understand why as it's a real confidence clinker.

I can understand there was a reason but I don't support him leaving the panel and not taking his place on the bench.
There was also a sound reason why Banty chose to take off one of our better players  away from the defense and use him to replace Duffy instead of using the sub goalie.

Height of disrespect for the player involved and Banty is lucky Monaghan won otherwise there would be hell to pay. I know myself I'd have walked.

Spoofing about some event you haven't got a clue about, again.
Somethings never change, some people never grow up, chronically incapable of a mature reflection.

Spoofing is your middle name. As i said lucky the chips fell in his favour today- had they lost you know what the headlines were tomorrow.
but Grimley is the brains the new ship monaghan is built on. A genius if ever there was one. You should wake up every day and be thankful that he decided to pitch his tent in Monaghan.

Quote from: Sam of the Sarsfields on June 06, 2010, 10:05:03 PM

Armagh were slight favourites going into the game, they controlled the first 15 minutes and Monaghan were on top for the second 15 minutes, then we had the sending off. How you can say the result was certain at that point is ridiculous, Armagh were very much in the game at that stage and the red card had a huge bearing on the outcome.

Armagh were still in it midway through the second half. Monaghan pulled men back behind the ball for a spell and if Armagh had taken their chances at that point it could have got very interesting. They missed some very good chances though and Monaghan started to attack again andturned the screw.

An awful lot of tak about the ref but that shouldnt hide the fact that Monaghan were very good and Armagh were appalling. For all Sludden is a poor ref he called the red card correctly anyway, if you catch a man in the face with an elbow you cant complain about being sent off.

Of the 3 Sunday Game analysts, 2 said red card and one said yellow regarding the Mallon incident.

Dick got man of the match. Well deserved.

Colum O rourke is partially right that was not a foul let alone a red card. That said once the ref blew for the free, if he felt it was an elbow he definitely should not have produced a yellow for the offence. It was the decision that changed the game, in the abscence of the sending off I think it would still have been a tight game.  That said Armagh/s performance both on the pitch and on the line rivaled the referees for ineptitude.

I don't think Armagh will be as poor again this season, at least I hope not as I was looking forward to make a quarter final of something other than Ulster this year

Quote from: Maguire01 on June 06, 2010, 10:23:12 PM
Of the 3 Sunday Game analysts, 2 said red card and one said yellow regarding the Mallon incident.

Dick got man of the match. Well deserved.

Thats very misleading, they were all in agreement at half-time that it was harsh.

Starting to like Dick now.

I can see why he gave a red card. Its one of those things, they happen and t=he fact that they did today in no way mitigates what was the worst Armagh championship I've ever seen.

Just watched the highlights, the manner in which Armagh capitulated and stopped even putting in the most basic of challenges in the final qaurter of the match was appalling.

Quote from: Sam of the Sarsfields on June 06, 2010, 10:26:22 PM

Quote from: Maguire01 on June 06, 2010, 10:23:12 PM
Of the 3 Sunday Game analysts, 2 said red card and one said yellow regarding the Mallon incident.

Dick got man of the match. Well deserved.

Thats very misleading, they were all in agreement at half-time that it was harsh.

The 3 analysts on this evenings Sunday Game.

Must agree with Mackers. If Mallon deserved a red the game is in trouble. Most seem to agree that catching Woods high was not deliberate. Mallon made a genuine effort to shoulder him. If players are going to be punished so severely for going for the ball we will end up with a game resembling basketball. In my opinion if a player makes a genuine attempt and it is slightly mistimed he should get a yellow. If it is deliberate or recklessly dangerous it should be red. In my opinion the mistiming was so minute that it could not be considered reckless. However, having viewed some decisions this year (eg McKeevers yellow against Derry - it was definitely for the shoulder before anyone who wants to go on pundit hearsay suggests otherwise) it would seem that the authorities want physical contact reduced. Therefore if the referee wants any other games he probably thinks he has to give a red. It is a pity because I think we would have had a good game if it had have finished 15 v 15. The game is being destroyed. My only gripe is that if this was a red Kernan and Hughes surely could also have seen red?

Quote from: Throw ball on June 06, 2010, 10:35:22 PM
Must agree with Mackers. If Mallon deserved a red the game is in trouble. Most seem to agree that catching Woods high was not deliberate. Mallon made a genuine effort to shoulder him. If players are going to be punished so severely for going for the ball we will end up with a game resembling basketball. In my opinion if a player makes a genuine attempt and it is slightly mistimed he should get a yellow. If it is deliberate or recklessly dangerous it should be red. In my opinion the mistiming was so minute that it could not be considered reckless. However, having viewed some decisions this year (eg McKeevers yellow against Derry - it was definitely for the shoulder before anyone who wants to go on pundit hearsay suggests otherwise) it would seem that the authorities want physical contact reduced. Therefore if the referee wants any other games he probably thinks he has to give a red. It is a pity because I think we would have had a good game if it had have finished 15 v 15. The game is being destroyed. My only gripe is that if this was a red Kernan and Hughes surely could also have seen red?

You can't use your elbow. If you do its a red card. I've had my my jaw rewired from similar incidents and its no fun sucking through a straw for 6 weeks. Mallon was high and late. End of story.

Monaghan should be too good for whoever emerges from Cavan or Fermanagh and make the Ulster final. Monaghan v Down would see the Farney favourites and I'd fancy them to overpower Down and few teams will want to draw them in the All-Ireland quarters. Tyrone v Monaghan offers them a chance to avenge 2007. Exciting times for the Farney folk.

The Hughes and Kernan tacked were neither high nor dangerous. I think that's an important difference.

Quote from: BroJolly on June 06, 2010, 08:14:07 PM
Really gutted after today. Fair play to Monaghan they probably would have went on to win but the sending off was a massive aid. Brian Mallon had been influential in setting up 2 or 3 scores before being sent off.

I don't think anyone (well not me anyway) is thinking if only we had Grimley. He made his decision and things move on. Have been to every Armagh game this year and with the esceptionof today and Marshes they have played really well. We'll see where qualifiers take us

Have been to all but one McKenna Cup game this year and would agree with this. My only problem is that in the games Armagh have lost players we have completely lost our way. This needs to be sorted. A common denominator in our two worst performances has also been the referee. He seems to be a bad omen!

Would have liked to have seen all the subs used today also. In a match like today we would see what they are made of. From half back to half forward I thought only Duffy and Lavery showed any leadership. What we need is to find some leaders. We are not as bad as we looked today and Monaghan are not as good. Still hope they win Ulster.

Quote from: Maguire01 on June 06, 2010, 10:41:37 PM
The Hughes and Kernan tacked were neither high nor dangerous. I think that's an important difference.

Have not yet seen replays of these and am only going on what I saw in real time. Only mentioned Hughes because he is related to the wife and deserves a bit of stick!

]

Have been to all but one McKenna Cup game this year and would agree with this. My only problem is that in the games Armagh have lost players we have completely lost our way. This needs to be sorted. A common denominator in our two worst performances has also been the referee. He seems to be a bad omen!

Really wish they took bets on wheteher a team would have a man sent off.
As soon as I heard who was refereeeing it was a cast iron certainty.

Can anyone tell me why he had to consult the linesman on the sending off?
He was closer, it was'nt off the ball. Why the second opinion?

QuoteStarting to like Dick now.

I'm sure you always liked it deep down.

Quote from: INDIANA on June 06, 2010, 10:40:10 PM

Quote from: Throw ball on June 06, 2010, 10:35:22 PM
Must agree with Mackers. If Mallon deserved a red the game is in trouble. Most seem to agree that catching Woods high was not deliberate. Mallon made a genuine effort to shoulder him. If players are going to be punished so severely for going for the ball we will end up with a game resembling basketball. In my opinion if a player makes a genuine attempt and it is slightly mistimed he should get a yellow. If it is deliberate or recklessly dangerous it should be red. In my opinion the mistiming was so minute that it could not be considered reckless. However, having viewed some decisions this year (eg McKeevers yellow against Derry - it was definitely for the shoulder before anyone who wants to go on pundit hearsay suggests otherwise) it would seem that the authorities want physical contact reduced. Therefore if the referee wants any other games he probably thinks he has to give a red. It is a pity because I think we would have had a good game if it had have finished 15 v 15. The game is being destroyed. My only gripe is that if this was a red Kernan and Hughes surely could also have seen red?

You can't use your elbow. If you do its a red card. I've had my my jaw rewired from similar incidents and its no fun sucking through a straw for 6 weeks. Mallon was high and late. End of story.

Very condescending! I do not think he led with the elbow. I saw Charlie Vernon break his jaw in a challenge match against Dublin last year in a similar incident. A free was not given and not one person complained about the tackle. The match was in Armagh. You can trip and break your arm it does not mean it is not an accident.

Anyone know why McManus or Freeman were booked? Wasn't very clear on the TV.

Quote from: Maguire01 on June 06, 2010, 10:57:34 PM
Anyone know why McManus or Freeman were booked? Wasn't very clear on the TV.

The ref needed to check how to spell their names for the team sheets. ;)

Quote from: Take Your Points on June 06, 2010, 10:52:37 PM
Stevie McDonnell was booked for a clear shoulder.

That was ridiculous alright, maybe Damien Freeman was coming up with the ball while he was shouldered but whatever about a free a booking in that case is ridiculous. Wasn't the only one either, does anyone know what McManus was booked for? Seen the game again and he was booked straight after the free he scored, the ref seemed to indicate he was pulling someones jersey?! He wasn't near where the free was won ffs and I don't see why he'd be pulling anyones jersey away from the play.

Brilliant result for Monaghan, it a performance I have seen coming for a few years given my vested interest in the Farney over the last decade or so. My outlaws were in good form this afternoon. My Promise/Threat to buy and wear a Monaghan Jersey might come true sooner than I had hoped for  ;)

Banty needs to keep their head now, if they blow it against Fermanagh or worse their neighbours Cavan it will be a huge setback on today's result. There is a Ulster title in them but they need to do it one step at a time.

Well done again.

Well done Monaghan, hope you go on to win Ulster now

Well done to Monaghan.

Worst championship performance i've seen from Armagh in 30 years. Depressing.  This performance eclipses the Derry game of 95 for ineptitude, and that game led to a major postmortem and rethink of county football in Armagh. What was most disappointing for me was that the players had a chance to redeem a bit of pride after that tepid performance against Monaghan last year, but they produced this.  We were down to 14 for a big part of the game, but it shouldn't have had that level of impact.  Poor at midfield, slow build up from the back and not enough options up front.  Half forwards again playing too deep and not having the mobility, initiative or freedom to get forward enough. Not enough switches made quick enough. Why was Andy Mallon allowed to stay on Freeman the whole game when it was obvious he was getting a hosing?  Why did the management wait to half time to bring on Lavery when it was obvious we couldn't win a ball in midfield from about 10 minutes onwards? Why were the half backs and half forwards not getting up to support the forwards?

Hard to see how the team can regroup after this to make any progress in the qualifiers.  Too many players hid today when we went down to 14, which doesn't bode well.  Paddy O'Rourke has talked a good game all year about letting players express themselves and to go out and give it a lash. We haven't seen much evidence of this in the two championship games they played. Time to bin fcukin sweeper roles and 2 men full forward lines and the rest. At least go out of the championship with a bit of spirit and and having a go, playing with 6 forwards, not 2.  Maybe Clarke will be back and that will be a boost, but that's probably clutching at straws.

Quote from Armamike...Time to bin fcukin sweeper roles and 2 men full forward lines and the rest. At least go out of the championship with a bit of spirit and and having a go, playing with 6 forwards, not 2.

You never said a truer word Armamike, as the teams who dont take this advice on board, will be floundering come August

Schkite, he was booked for jersey pulling in the build up to the free,not the first time he had done it.IMO if a foul had been committed then  the free should not have been awarded, A throw up should have been the result. It would not have altered the result in anyway. Monaghan were good value for their victory. It just adds to the charge sheet of a very poor ref  I hope Monaghan can go on to win Ulster, but much as I hate to say it, Tyrone will be hard to beat.

Talking of the charge sheet of a poor ref I thought Sluddens decision to allow Armaghs last goal kick to be taken by Hearty out of his hands summed up the referees performance perfectly. Absolutely clueless

Quote from: JUst retired on June 07, 2010, 07:01:12 AM
Schkite, he was booked for jersey pulling in the build up to the free,not the first time he had done it.IMO if a foul had been committed then  the free should not have been awarded, A throw up should have been the result. It would not have altered the result in anyway. Monaghan were good value for their victory. It just adds to the charge sheet of a very poor ref  I hope Monaghan can go on to win Ulster, but much as I hate to say it, Tyrone will be hard to beat.

Yeah, that's fair enough, if he did indeed pull someones jersey then why wasn't the ball threw up instead of booking him afterwards? Did he only remember as he was kicking the free? It's that type of thing that just left me and I'd imagine everyone else bewildered at Sludden's performance, he really was shite.

Quote from: charlieTully on June 07, 2010, 09:12:45 AM

Quote from: dodgy umpire on June 06, 2010, 08:09:37 PM
charlie tully, give the keyboard a rest. People might start to associate you with us!

standard stoop reply.

That response says more about you than the person it is aimed at. Keep that crap off the football treads.

Quote from: Pangurban on June 07, 2010, 01:00:37 AM
Quote from Armamike...Time to bin fcukin sweeper roles and 2 men full forward lines and the rest. At least go out of the championship with a bit of spirit and and having a go, playing with 6 forwards, not 2.

You never said a truer word Armamike, as the teams who dont take this advice on board, will be floundering come August

This is exactly what i was talking to the brother about last night, for f**k sake just pick 6 forwards from the county and give them their chance. What is the point in playing Malachy Mackin in the half forward line ? Is he going to swing over a point or two from 40 yards ? That said i think the game yesterday hinged on the sending off and the ineptitude of that useless bastard with the whistle. Compare some of the challenges in Casement with some of what went on in Killarney. If Sludden was in Killarney there wouldnt have been a man on the field after 20 mins FFS. The game is being ruined, how long before people start turning their backs ?

And well done Monaghan - i hope you go on and lift Ulster now.

from an armagh perspective
management very poor as compared to monaghan who made swift changes
half forward line poor
toner poor
vernon lacks agression as does kernan
clarke ( jamie) excellent prospect and received no protection from ref
defence was poorly set up

why was ronan clarke stripped if he isnt fit
Monaghan were excellent yesterday fair play to them
referee is a disaster waiting to happen--he had an appalling game

A question for you folks more in the know - why in Ulster is a referee from ulster allowed to ref an Ulster derby match when a derby match in Munster takes a ref down from Armagh ?

At the game as a neutral yesterday and was about 40 yds from the Mallon incident. I thought he was unlucky but all those around me, including the rabid armawan i was there with, reckoned he was on his way before Sludden consulted his linesman. BTw what was the consultation? I'm going to line this bucko whadya think? Cos he had a better view than the linesman. Was very impressed with the Moniken full forward and while they were good value for the win, the sending off was the crucial moment. I thought Henderson was very unlucky not to start but Clarke more than justified his inclusion and I wonder whether it would be worth Sticking the other Clarke at CHF when he comes back with Vernon and Swift either side because Mackin and Kernan just don't cut the mustard there at all. Kernan is too weak and Mackin hasn't enough football in him. 

ps great shout re fruithill, walked into the whitefort before the game and straight out again as it was packed. Served straight away and got a seat next door.

Quote from: passedit on June 07, 2010, 09:33:59 AM
At the game as a neutral yesterday and was about 40 yds from the Mallon incident. I thought he was unlucky but all those around me, including the rabid armawan i was there with, reckoned he was on his way before Sludden consulted his linesman. BTw what was the consultation? I'm going to line this bucko whadya think? Cos he had a better view than the linesman.

Why did Sludden need to consult anyone at all? The incident happened on the ball, right at the focus of play. I can understand going to your linesman if something happens off the ball or a bit behind the play. What was Sludden looking at that he needed to ask the linesman what happened? Sums the useless shite up really.

I find it difficult to understand why people are annoyed with the ref using his assistants. Surely this should be a good thing?

Quote from: maddog on June 07, 2010, 09:27:25 AM

Quote from: Pangurban on June 07, 2010, 01:00:37 AM
Quote from Armamike...Time to bin fcukin sweeper roles and 2 men full forward lines and the rest. At least go out of the championship with a bit of spirit and and having a go, playing with 6 forwards, not 2.

You never said a truer word Armamike, as the teams who dont take this advice on board, will be floundering come August

This is exactly what i was talking to the brother about last night, for f**k sake just pick 6 forwards from the county and give them their chance. What is the point in playing Malachy Mackin in the half forward line ? Is he going to swing over a point or two from 40 yards ? That said i think the game yesterday hinged on the sending off and the ineptitude of that useless b**tard with the whistle. Compare some of the challenges in Casement with some of what went on in Killarney. If Sludden was in Killarney there wouldnt have been a man on the field after 20 mins FFS. The game is being ruined, how long before people start turning their backs ?
And well done Monaghan - i hope you go on and lift Ulster now.

This sums it up for me.

McKeever booked for fair shoulder hit in Celtic Park.

McDonnell booked for fair shoulder in Casement.

Mallon sent off for a shoulder against a man at least 2.5 stone heavier than him.

The games we have all come to know as "great games" ie. Derry v Down in '94 when Ross Carr nearly took the head off Dermot McNicholl or the Dublin v Meath games of '91 where Colm O'Rourke was sandwiched between Heery and Barr but got up, played and played on. Its part of what makes our game so great, men taking hits and getting on with it.

Will we have to watch All Ireland Gold to see manlieness in football, as it is being taken from our game

Personally I think the most Mallon deserved was a yellow but what sealed his fate was the momentum immediately after he hit the shoulder (which was fractionally high) caused his arm/elbow to fly up in the air (not hitting woods) but with a split second view of it and no chance to watch a replay Coldrick and Sludden probably felt it was the flailing arm that done the damage and so issued a red.

Quote from: Maguire01 on June 07, 2010, 10:21:26 AM
I find it difficult to understand why people are annoyed with the ref using his assistants. Surely this should be a good thing?

The most important decision he had to make in the match, and he couldn't get himself into a position to call it. He was constantly too far from the action to make accurate judgements. Not good enough from an intercounty referee.

Quote from: AFS on June 07, 2010, 10:47:42 AM

Quote from: Maguire01 on June 07, 2010, 10:21:26 AM
I find it difficult to understand why people are annoyed with the ref using his assistants. Surely this should be a good thing?

The most important decision he had to make in the match, and he couldn't get himself into a position to call it. He was constantly too far from the action to make accurate judgements. Not good enough from an intercounty referee.

He didn't have the best view, so he consulted his linesman. Surely that's better than him making the call on his own?

Strangely the Irish News has concluded that he "refereed well".

Quote from: omagh_gael on June 07, 2010, 10:46:16 AM
Personally I think the most Mallon deserved was a yellow but what sealed his fate was the momentum immediately after he hit the shoulder (which was fractionally high) caused his arm/elbow to fly up in the air (not hitting woods)

So how do you explain the nosebleed?

Quote from: Maguire01 on June 07, 2010, 10:55:05 AM

Quote from: AFS on June 07, 2010, 10:47:42 AM

Quote from: Maguire01 on June 07, 2010, 10:21:26 AM
I find it difficult to understand why people are annoyed with the ref using his assistants. Surely this should be a good thing?

The most important decision he had to make in the match, and he couldn't get himself into a position to call it. He was constantly too far from the action to make accurate judgements. Not good enough from an intercounty referee.

He didn't have the best view, so he consulted his linesman. Surely that's better than him making the call on his own?

That's the point. Why didn't he have a good view of it? The incident happened on the ball, where else was he looking? What's the point in having referees if they're not there to make the big calls.

Quote from: Maguire01 on June 07, 2010, 11:00:06 AM

Quote from: omagh_gael on June 07, 2010, 10:46:16 AM
Personally I think the most Mallon deserved was a yellow but what sealed his fate was the momentum immediately after he hit the shoulder (which was fractionally high) caused his arm/elbow to fly up in the air (not hitting woods)

So how do you explain the nosebleed?

What omagh gael was saying in my view was 100% correct the arm followed through after the shoulder which made it look much worse than it was. It doesnt take much contact with the nose to trigger it bleeding. If refs are going to send off for that then fine, but at least be consistent.

Quote from: ONeill on June 06, 2010, 08:34:49 PM
Jaysus that was some hammering.

How bad must Derry be.

LOL. As many pointed out at the time, there were warning signs for Armagh when they stuggled to beat a very poor Derry side. The same goes for Down and, to a lesser extent, Tyrone.

Mongahan's Ulster Championship to lose now.  ;)

. Not good enough from an intercounty referee.
[/quote]
interesting to note that not one armagh player or official shook the refs hand after the game
can armagh object if he is asked to handle any further games

The next move will be to ban the shoulder charge altogether and I'm going to start watching real contact sports like hockey or something!!

Lot of knee jerk reactions going on here, in the cold light of day Monaghan are a more experienced outfit than this Armagh team. They are hell bent on getting an Ulster title that they feel they deserve and were by far the hungrier team. We are clearly a team in transition with a new management in place and we're playing without one of our two class forwards. We got promoted out of a very poor Division and the management need one if not two more years to develop us into a team challenging for honours. Divsion 1 football next spring will bring us on hopefully.

None of our much maligned HF line (the main source of our problems yesterday along with our CHB)  lined out in their positions on a regular basis for us before which especially in the case of Nippy Swift is an indictment of the previous regime. I would persist with Swift and AK in their positions and use Mackin as a sub. Our midfield was made up of two lads of about 23 who came up against a formidable and experienced pairing in Lennon and Clerkin. Vernon and Toner will be an outstanding pairing in a few years, ably assisted by Lavery (aged 23/24) who is a player that I didn't rate but he's much better than I gave him credit for. 

If we can get a handy draw in the qualifiers and get Ronan Clarke fit then we will achieve our aim for the year IMO which is to get to an AIQF. New teams and new management trying to change a style of play will lead to huge swings in performance like we have experienced this year. Hopefully the players will continue to work hard and keep their hunger and the management continue to learn from their mistakes.

Quote from: mackers on June 07, 2010, 11:26:08 AM
The next move will be to ban the shoulder charge altogether and I'm going to start watching real contact sports like hockey or something!!

Lot of knee jerk reactions going on here, in the cold light of day Monaghan are a more experienced outfit than this Armagh team. They are hell bent on getting an Ulster title that they feel they deserve and were by far the hungrier team. We are clearly a team in transition with a new management in place and we're playing without one of our two class forwards. We got promoted out of a very poor Division and the management need one if not two more years to develop us into a team challenging for honours. Divsion 1 football next spring will bring us on hopefully.

None of our much maligned HF line (the main source of our problems yesterday along with our CHB)  lined out in their positions on a regular basis for us before which especially in the case of Nippy Swift is an indictment of the previous regime. I would persist with Swift and AK in their positions and use Mackin as a sub. Our midfield was made up of two lads of about 23 who came up against a formidable and experienced pairing in Lennon and Clerkin. Vernon and Toner will be an outstanding pairing in a few years, ably assisted by Lavery (aged 23/24) who is a player that I didn't rate but he's much better than I gave him credit for. 

If we can get a handy draw in the qualifiers and get Ronan Clarke fit then we will achieve our aim for the year IMO which is to get to an AIQF. New teams and new management trying to change a style of play will lead to huge swings in performance like we have experienced this year. Hopefully the players will continue to work hard and keep their hunger and the management continue to learn from their mistakes.

23 is a fully grown senior inter county footballer. Bit old to be playing the youth card.

On the positive side for Armagh:

1. Hearty's kickouts were good, he had no chance with the goal, and he saved a point by catching the ball on top of the crossbar. Well done Paul.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

Quote from: Maguire01 on June 07, 2010, 11:00:06 AM

Quote from: omagh_gael on June 07, 2010, 10:46:16 AM
Personally I think the most Mallon deserved was a yellow but what sealed his fate was the momentum immediately after he hit the shoulder (which was fractionally high) caused his arm/elbow to fly up in the air (not hitting woods)

So how do you explain the nosebleed?

From replays it looked to be caused by Wood's head hitting Mallon's high shoulder as Woods had no time to brace himself for the impact. Mallon's arm/elbow definitely didn't make contact with his face.

Quote from: Orior on June 07, 2010, 11:31:58 AM
On the positive side for Armagh:

1. Hearty's kickouts were good, he had no chance with the goal, and he saved a point by catching the ball on top of the crossbar. Well done Paul.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

Actually Hearty committed himself far too early for the goal. If he had stood his ground he would have had a much better chance. In contrast, the Monaghan keeper stood his ground when he was called in to action and made easy saves. If you look at all the keepers that were easily beaten over the weekend they all committed themselves far too early, leaving the attacker with a much easier job.

Quote from: Maguire01 on June 07, 2010, 10:21:26 AM
I find it difficult to understand why people are annoyed with the ref using his assistants. Surely this should be a good thing?

Pure bitterness and irrational hatred?  ::)

According to some, not only was he wrong in his decision to issue a red card but he was extra wrong not to make the wrong decision decisively and with certitude :D

We haven't a hope if a referee is lambasted for seeking a second opinion on a crucial marginal call. A call that the many professional pundits (not too mention the many more unprofessional pundits here) could not agree on.

Joke of a performance! Massive changes needed. My team for qualifiers
1. Hearty
2. Mallon
3. Donaghy
4. P.McKeown
5. Duffy
6. McKeever
7. Kernan
8. Toner
9. Lavery
10. Dyas
11. Ronan Clarke
12. Veron
13. Jamie Clarke
14. McDonnell
15. Forker

Vernon lucky to make team so is A kernan

Quote from: Orior on June 07, 2010, 11:31:58 AM
On the positive side for Armagh:

1. Hearty's kickouts were good, he had no chance with the goal, and he saved a point by catching the ball on top of the crossbar. Well done Paul.

He got good distance in the first half but a few too many of them were just swept up by the Monaghan half-back line as they bounced over the far 65. He must have been told to wind it down a bit at half time as he noticeably started to "chip" them to the near 65 in the second half  :D

Quote from: Orior on June 07, 2010, 11:31:58 AM
On the positive side for Armagh:

1. Hearty's kickouts were good, he had no chance with the goal, and he saved a point by catching the ball on top of the crossbar. Well done Paul.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

If you are looking for another positive i thought Duffy was excellent.

poor result and performance from both the players and the management. on a side issue why the hell was barnsy o'rourke dropped from the panel completely when we are cying out for scoring forwards as yesterday highlighted? it's all well and good having big players but that's not worth a tuppence if you cant put the ball over the bar! at least with peter mc donnell in charge the armagh team would never have been beaten by that much 14 men or not!

i hope the team can dust themselves down now and have a rattle at the qualifiers. it all depends on the draw though

Quote from: INDIANA on June 07, 2010, 11:29:53 AM

Quote from: mackers on June 07, 2010, 11:26:08 AM
The next move will be to ban the shoulder charge altogether and I'm going to start watching real contact sports like hockey or something!!

Lot of knee jerk reactions going on here, in the cold light of day Monaghan are a more experienced outfit than this Armagh team. They are hell bent on getting an Ulster title that they feel they deserve and were by far the hungrier team. We are clearly a team in transition with a new management in place and we're playing without one of our two class forwards. We got promoted out of a very poor Division and the management need one if not two more years to develop us into a team challenging for honours. Divsion 1 football next spring will bring us on hopefully.

None of our much maligned HF line (the main source of our problems yesterday along with our CHB)  lined out in their positions on a regular basis for us before which especially in the case of Nippy Swift is an indictment of the previous regime. I would persist with Swift and AK in their positions and use Mackin as a sub. Our midfield was made up of two lads of about 23 who came up against a formidable and experienced pairing in Lennon and Clerkin. Vernon and Toner will be an outstanding pairing in a few years, ably assisted by Lavery (aged 23/24) who is a player that I didn't rate but he's much better than I gave him credit for. 

If we can get a handy draw in the qualifiers and get Ronan Clarke fit then we will achieve our aim for the year IMO which is to get to an AIQF. New teams and new management trying to change a style of play will lead to huge swings in performance like we have experienced this year. Hopefully the players will continue to work hard and keep their hunger and the management continue to learn from their mistakes.

23 is a fully grown senior inter county footballer. Bit old to be playing the youth card.

Rubbish..........at 23/24 McGeeney, McGrane et al were getting their arses whipped by Derry, they learnt from that, hopefully our lads will learn from this also. Players aren't in their prime until 26-28. The other thrust of my argument is that the lads of that age are only getting to play in their positions now (with the exception of Kieran Toner who has played a few years in MF at this stage).

Quote from: tevez on June 07, 2010, 11:54:21 AM
Joke of a performance! Massive changes needed. My team for qualifiers
1. Hearty
2. Mallon
3. Donaghy
4. P.McKeown
5. Duffy
6. McKeever
7. Kernan
8. Toner
9. Lavery
10. Dyas
11. Ronan Clarke
12. Veron
13. Jamie Clarke
14. McDonnell
15. Forker

Vernon lucky to make team so is A kernan

If Clarke is fit he should be in Full Forward, its his best position and the team need him up there with Stevie - bit late in the day for experiments imo.  Dont think Moriarity deserves to be dropped either, def not at the expense of moving A Kernan back to defense.  Dyas hasn't done anything in my eyes to prove he deserves to start

Quote from: OverThePostsAWide on June 07, 2010, 11:48:25 AM

Quote from: Maguire01 on June 07, 2010, 10:21:26 AM
I find it difficult to understand why people are annoyed with the ref using his assistants. Surely this should be a good thing?

Pure bitterness and irrational hatred?  ::)

According to some, not only was he wrong in his decision to issue a red card but he was extra wrong not to make the wrong decision decisively and with certitude :D

We haven't a hope if a referee is lambasted for seeking a second opinion on a crucial marginal call. A call that the many professional pundits (not too mention the many more unprofessional pundits here) could not agree on.

Well done. You've also missed the point.

Quote from: gander on June 07, 2010, 12:31:06 PM

Quote from: tevez on June 07, 2010, 11:54:21 AM
Joke of a performance! Massive changes needed. My team for qualifiers
1. Hearty
2. Mallon
3. Donaghy
4. P.McKeown
5. Duffy
6. McKeever
7. Kernan
8. Toner
9. Lavery
10. Dyas
11. Ronan Clarke
12. Veron
13. Jamie Clarke
14. McDonnell
15. Forker

Vernon lucky to make team so is A kernan

If Clarke is fit he should be in Full Forward, its his best position and the team need him up there with Stevie - bit late in the day for experiments imo.  Dont think Moriarity deserves to be dropped either, def not at the expense of moving A Kernan back to defense.  Dyas hasn't done anything in my eyes to prove he deserves to start

He's played so little football that there's no way Clarke would be fit enough to play out the field anyway.

Armagh got what they deserved and that was nothing, their performance was gutless and spineless. The ref gave us feck all and P O'Rourke gave us feck all, as for the sending off i went mad at the the match and called the ref a few names but when i seen it last night it wasn't as clean as a shoulder as i thought when watching it from the terracing.

Aaron Kernan is not a CHF (end of story) either we play him wing half back or use him as the sweeper (if Armagh continue to play this way) if he can't be fitted in then bench him. Mal Mackin & Eddie Martin are not good enough for this level and to drop Henderson was another mistake, if the rumours are true that he has walked out on Armagh then i don't blame the lad at all. Whenever we continue to carry 3 passengers in the forward line then don't ever expect to win anything other than a McKenna cup match against very weak opposition.

It may be possible to sacrifice one (thats 1) half forward as a third midfielder other than that we need 5 scoring forwards, i hope the players are hurting today as they should be. The fact that they gave up and let Monaghan make we boys from them was more disappointing, they just bent over and took it (you know where)

Illdecide. I think I saw Henderson warm up a couple of times yesterday.
Can anyone explain why Armagh did not use all their subs yesterday. It was a hot day. Players like McKeown and Anto Duffy could have been tried without a worse result!

Well done Agent O'Rourke - mission accomplished! ;D

Looking ahead for Armagh. With Mallon out the next day will MOR get a game. Will Ronan Clarke be fit. Will the defence see any changes?
As for Monaghan, they should win next day out and I would fancy them to beat Down. But if they meet Tyrone do they have a really big game in them. No doubt Big Paul would love to get one over them!

Quote from: tevez on June 07, 2010, 11:54:21 AM
Joke of a performance! Massive changes needed. My team for qualifiers
1. Hearty
2. Mallon
3. Donaghy
4. P.McKeown
5. Duffy
6. McKeever
7. Kernan
8. Toner
9. Lavery
10. Dyas
11. Ronan Clarke
12. Veron
13. Jamie Clarke
14. McDonnell
15. Forker

Vernon lucky to make team so is A kernan

He will be busy at the World Cup (as someone called tevez should know) :P

Quote from: mackers on June 07, 2010, 12:23:24 PM

Quote from: INDIANA on June 07, 2010, 11:29:53 AM

Quote from: mackers on June 07, 2010, 11:26:08 AM
The next move will be to ban the shoulder charge altogether and I'm going to start watching real contact sports like hockey or something!!

Lot of knee jerk reactions going on here, in the cold light of day Monaghan are a more experienced outfit than this Armagh team. They are hell bent on getting an Ulster title that they feel they deserve and were by far the hungrier team. We are clearly a team in transition with a new management in place and we're playing without one of our two class forwards. We got promoted out of a very poor Division and the management need one if not two more years to develop us into a team challenging for honours. Divsion 1 football next spring will bring us on hopefully.

None of our much maligned HF line (the main source of our problems yesterday along with our CHB)  lined out in their positions on a regular basis for us before which especially in the case of Nippy Swift is an indictment of the previous regime. I would persist with Swift and AK in their positions and use Mackin as a sub. Our midfield was made up of two lads of about 23 who came up against a formidable and experienced pairing in Lennon and Clerkin. Vernon and Toner will be an outstanding pairing in a few years, ably assisted by Lavery (aged 23/24) who is a player that I didn't rate but he's much better than I gave him credit for. 

If we can get a handy draw in the qualifiers and get Ronan Clarke fit then we will achieve our aim for the year IMO which is to get to an AIQF. New teams and new management trying to change a style of play will lead to huge swings in performance like we have experienced this year. Hopefully the players will continue to work hard and keep their hunger and the management continue to learn from their mistakes.

23 is a fully grown senior inter county footballer. Bit old to be playing the youth card.

Rubbish..........at 23/24 McGeeney, McGrane et al were getting their arses whipped by Derry, they learnt from that, hopefully our lads will learn from this also. Players aren't in their prime until 26-28. The other thrust of my argument is that the lads of that age are only getting to play in their positions now (with the exception of Kieran Toner who has played a few years in MF at this stage).

Lavery looks like the only one with the required tools. Armagh are at a crossroads One wonders will that little wizard off their minors at corner forward last year be given a shot at it. Or simply be deemed too small. The latter I'd suspect. A sea change is required in Armagh football in my view. Talent has to supercede size. Currently in Armagh the latter is king IMO.

Quote from: Throw ball on June 07, 2010, 01:32:42 PM
Looking ahead for Armagh. With Mallon out the next day will MOR get a game. Will Ronan Clarke be fit. Will the defence see any changes?

Probably depends on the draw. If they get a London or Longford they might give one or two lads a chance, but if it's a Donegal or Kildare they'll probably stick with what they know. I'd have O'Rourke back in the team in a flash, especially after the clueless, ineffective displays of one or two yesterday.

I have to take it all back in my dissagreement with Bingo over "massive changes" needed in the Monaghan game :)
Who could have imagined such full rear replacement surgery on a team on the eve of the big match.


In Peadair O´Donnell's excellent book "When the Gates Flew Open", he tells of an escape attempt from Mountjoy during the Civil War. All the plans were set in motion. The final piece was getting the help one of the screws who was sympathetic.
Just as the plan was about to be effected, that screw was asked to help but he hesitated and refused. The escape plan flopped. Peadair wrote that the screw should have been asked for his help a few days earlier in order for him to adjust from being sympathetic to being active, that the sudden shock of being asked to become an active participant immediately, was too much.

It appears Banty left it late to inform the rest of the team who were not directly involved with the goalkeeping change that the sub goalie would not be used to replace first choice Duffy. Maybe the circumstances dictated the timing, but as Duffy was an injury worry for some time, it was late to come up with a radical plan B.
Credit to the team who adjusted to the circumstances and got their heads together.

Quote from: maddog on June 07, 2010, 12:02:07 PM

Quote from: Orior on June 07, 2010, 11:31:58 AM
On the positive side for Armagh:

1. Hearty's kickouts were good, he had no chance with the goal, and he saved a point by catching the ball on top of the crossbar. Well done Paul.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

If you are looking for another positive i thought Duffy was excellent.

Jamie Clarke looks class as well. A footballer as well. Not a bodybuilder.

Indeed, Jamie Clarke looks like he's got the right stuff, played very well along McDonnell in the opening 15-20 minutes and with better ball in the second half during the period Monaghan sat back, could have done more damage. The point he got in the second half was excellent I thought, the way he got the ball under pressure with three defenders around him, got dispossessed by McQuaid, but got the ball back and put it over the bar under pressure. Looks like a real find.

Quote from: Schkite on June 07, 2010, 02:08:54 PM
Indeed, Jamie Clarke looks like he's got the right stuff, played very well along McDonnell in the opening 15-20 minutes and with better ball in the second half during the period Monaghan sat back, could have done more damage. The point he got in the second half was excellent I thought, the way he got the ball under pressure with three defenders around him, got dispossessed by McQuaid, but got the ball back and put it over the bar under pressure. Looks like a real find.

Yes true enough but he lost the ball a good few times and was blocked down 3 times too, he's a lot to learn but def has the potential to make it but he's far from the finished article yet

I thought there was some great catching and long kicking in this game by both sides.

Armagh I love to watch as their players are real men. They have rippling bodies and have obviously spent a long time in the gym working on their torsos and arm muscles and shoulder reps. However, when it's a very sunny day they seem to sweat a lot more and are gasping away for breadth whilst smaller boys like Freeman and Hanratty are bouncing about like little cheeky lambs.

As much as Armagh are a sight for sore eyes, I think their whole management set up needs to be aware than big men don't neccessarily deliver the big package when things get hot.

On another note, did anyone else see the sign on the M1 outside the slip road sign before Junction 2. It said A55 Outer Ring. It looked like Ass Outer Ring !!!! I laughed and laughed.

Well done to monaghan a great display,

if they can keep producing performances like that, they will get a good decent run in the All Ireland and will def win Ulster.

Quote from: illdecide on June 07, 2010, 02:14:01 PM

Quote from: Schkite on June 07, 2010, 02:08:54 PM
Indeed, Jamie Clarke looks like he's got the right stuff, played very well along McDonnell in the opening 15-20 minutes and with better ball in the second half during the period Monaghan sat back, could have done more damage. The point he got in the second half was excellent I thought, the way he got the ball under pressure with three defenders around him, got dispossessed by McQuaid, but got the ball back and put it over the bar under pressure. Looks like a real find.

Yes true enough but he lost the ball a good few times and was blocked down 3 times too, he's a lot to learn but def has the potential to make it but he's far from the finished article yet

He showed enough that he is  a class act in the making.
He was too raw to this level to make the difference on his own in the second half and not through a packed enough defense made up of cute old timers. There was a small window for Armagh in the 2nd half, but closed after those 2 easy points were missed and were quickly followed by 4 in a row for Monaghan

Quote from: Main Street on June 07, 2010, 02:25:29 PM

Quote from: illdecide on June 07, 2010, 02:14:01 PM

Quote from: Schkite on June 07, 2010, 02:08:54 PM
Indeed, Jamie Clarke looks like he's got the right stuff, played very well along McDonnell in the opening 15-20 minutes and with better ball in the second half during the period Monaghan sat back, could have done more damage. The point he got in the second half was excellent I thought, the way he got the ball under pressure with three defenders around him, got dispossessed by McQuaid, but got the ball back and put it over the bar under pressure. Looks like a real find.

Yes true enough but he lost the ball a good few times and was blocked down 3 times too, he's a lot to learn but def has the potential to make it but he's far from the finished article yet

He showed enough that he is  a class act in the making.
He was too raw to this level to make the difference on his own in the second half and not through a packed enough defense made up of cute old timers. There was a small window for Armagh in the 2nd half, but closed after those 2 easy points were missed and were quickly followed by 4 in a row for Monaghan

Yeah, McDonnell had a scoreable enough free and Swift went through 30 seconds later only to tip the ball into the keepers arms from 21 yards. Had we got those two, it would've been down to four with 10 and a bit minutes left, and maybe Monaghan might have got a bit jittery. Instead both were missed and Monaghan went up the field and got a 50, which Finlay put over to push it back out to seven. That was the end of any Armagh resistance, Monaghan tagged on points for fun after that.

I was well pleased with Hanratty yesterday, especially his pass for Freeman's goal.
The ball is like a hot potato in his hand at times and at other times he works himself into a strange frenzy. I´d guess at club level he is a handfull, but at this level it is another game.
If the lad could just use his speed and craft to get in front of his marker, grab the pass, but then relax a few degrees, find his man and lay off the ball, he could be a very useful cog in attack.

Quote from: Onion Bag on June 07, 2010, 02:20:51 PM
Well done to monaghan a great display,

if they can keep producing performances meeting teams that roll over like that, they will get a good decent run in the All Ireland and will def win Ulster.

Fixed ;)

Quote from: Main Street on June 07, 2010, 02:43:07 PM
I was well pleased with Hanratty yesterday, especially his pass for Freeman's goal.
The ball is like a hot potato in his hand at times and at other times he works himself into a strange frenzy. I´d guess at club level he is a handfull, but at this level it is another game.
If the lad could just use his speed and craft to get in front of his marker, grab the pass, but then relax a few degrees, find his man and lay off the ball, he could be a very useful cog in attack.

He has football in him, I was well impressed with him when we beat ye in the u21 final in Omagh a few years back, but he has a wing mirrors issue. He sh1t himself when confronted by McKeever a couple of times and pulled out of a 50-50 in front of us in the first half.

Lavery looks like the only one with the required tools. Armagh are at a crossroads One wonders will that little wizard off their minors at corner forward last year be given a shot at it. Or simply be deemed too small. The latter I'd suspect. A sea change is required in Armagh football in my view. Talent has to supercede size. Currently in Armagh the latter is king IMO.
[/quote]

That was the most pleasing aspect of our minor win last year was that it was based on a lot of attacking talent, something that we need badly in the senior set up, we'll have to wait a while before those guys are ready for senior inter county action.

What a terrible performance; shades of 1995? against Derry in the Athletic Grounds. Grasping at straws, the "positives" I gleaned from yesterday were Hearty, Donaghy?, Duffy, Clarke (inspiring) and McDonnell. Just imagine what will be the outcome if we draw Kerry or Cork in the Qualifiers; doesn't bear thinking about! How come O'Rourke seemed to be so cool, dispassionate almost, on the sideline?

Quote from: Olly on June 07, 2010, 02:18:51 PM
I thought there was some great catching and long kicking in this game by both sides.

Armagh I love to watch as their players are real men. They have rippling bodies and have obviously spent a long time in the gym working on their torsos and arm muscles and shoulder reps. However, when it's a very sunny day they seem to sweat a lot more and are gasping away for breadth whilst smaller boys like Freeman and Hanratty are bouncing about like little cheeky lambs.

As much as Armagh are a sight for sore eyes, I think their whole management set up needs to be aware than big men don't neccessarily deliver the big package when things get hot.

On another note, did anyone else see the sign on the M1 outside the slip road sign before Junction 2. It said A55 Outer Ring. It looked like Ass Outer Ring !!!! I laughed and laughed.

Good man Olly.  :D

Quote from: Sandy Hill on June 07, 2010, 03:20:11 PM
How come O'Rourke seemed to be so cool, dispassionate almost, on the sideline?

All part of the plan. Sure, who cares about another Ulster title?  :P

Poor poor performance. Fair play to Hearty who really looked good yesterday and has obviously got his fire back.
Duffy looked fantastic and never gave up.
Great opening 15 mins then went to the dogs.

Seen Onion Bag on the TV - you're a real celeb!

Quote from: The Iceman on June 07, 2010, 03:41:13 PM
Poor poor performance. Fair play to Hearty who really looked good yesterday and has obviously got his fire back.
Duffy looked fantastic and never gave up.
Great opening 15 mins then went to the dogs.

Seen Onion Bag on the TV - you're a real celeb!

i got some amount of texts alright, i havent seen it myself yet, it was about the highlight of the day, getting on tv

In fact i was on tv as often as some of the Armagh players yesterday

can't even begin to talk about that performance, whats this shite with Paul Hearty being a positive, right he didnt have a bad game but he lay down for the goal, the replay shows him on th ground before the ball is kicked

A thoroughly deserved victory for Monaghan but they must win an Ulster title now. I hope they do so.

As for Armagh - where does one start ?
Stevie and Jamie Clarke done well with the precious few balls put into them so they avoid criticism but apart from them only Paul Duffy can hold his head up today. There were one or two others who played ok but ok doesn't cut it in the chamionship.
The thing that is irking the life out of me is Armagh's lack of fight. I found it embarrassing. The body language said it all and the signs were there from just before Monaghan's goal. The defence looked like they'd never played with each other before.
Midfield - i've been critical of them for a while but gave them the benefit of the doubt after a few decent performances recently but they were exposed as decidedly average today.
We don't have a half forward line. AT ALL.
The sending off was the wrong decision. A lad goes into deliver a fair shoulder, his opponent turns into him and because of being a split second out the lad's game is over. ??????? Gaelic Football is being ruined.
The ref was cac. He didn't cost Armagh the game so it's not sour grapes. He booked several players from both sides for nothing. His instructions came from croke park though. I fear for the game of gaelic football, i really despair

Oh, and the armagh county board and their snub of paul grimley - well done. poetic justice in a way yesterday

Go and win Ulster Monaghan

Quote from: AFS on June 07, 2010, 12:40:40 PM

Quote from: OverThePostsAWide on June 07, 2010, 11:48:25 AM

Quote from: Maguire01 on June 07, 2010, 10:21:26 AM
I find it difficult to understand why people are annoyed with the ref using his assistants. Surely this should be a good thing?

Pure bitterness and irrational hatred?  ::)

According to some, not only was he wrong in his decision to issue a red card but he was extra wrong not to make the wrong decision decisively and with certitude :D

We haven't a hope if a referee is lambasted for seeking a second opinion on a crucial marginal call. A call that the many professional pundits (not too mention the many more unprofessional pundits here) could not agree on.

Well done. You've also missed the point.

Not at all. I "got" the point - I just didn't agree with it ...even after the third time  ;)

Still, not much point trying to have a rational discussion about it I suppose...

Quote from: AFS on June 07, 2010, 09:47:13 AM
...Sums the useless shite up really.

Quote from: RealSpiritof98 on June 07, 2010, 03:57:37 PM
can't even begin to talk about that performance, whats this shite with Paul Hearty being a positive, right he didnt have a bad game but he lay down for the goal, the replay shows him on th ground before the ball is kicked

In the context of yesterday's match and compared to the other 15 - that's all! I still have serious concerns about him.

Quote from: Olly on June 07, 2010, 02:18:51 PM
I thought there was some great catching and long kicking in this game by both sides.

Armagh I love to watch as their players are real men. They have rippling bodies and have obviously spent a long time in the gym working on their torsos and arm muscles and shoulder reps. However, when it's a very sunny day they seem to sweat a lot more and are gasping away for breadth whilst smaller boys like Freeman and Hanratty are bouncing about like little cheeky lambs.

As much as Armagh are a sight for sore eyes, I think their whole management set up needs to be aware than big men don't neccessarily deliver the big package when things get hot.

On another note, did anyone else see the sign on the M1 outside the slip road sign before Junction 2. It said A55 Outer Ring. It looked like Ass Outer Ring !!!! I laughed and laughed.

Not bad ONeill. But what about bringing back farneyboy?

I just want to take back what I said (much) earlier on this thread about the sending off. I don't think any connection was made with the elbow - think it came up after impact. I think Woods nose got busted because his head kind of buckled on impact and his nose hit the top of Mallon's shoulder or collar bone area. Mallons two feet were on the ground at time of impact so it mightnot actually have been a free. It looked bad because Woods wasn't expecting it and had only one foot on the ground. May not have been shoulder to shoulder completely but was defo hip to hip and the rules say "side to side" I think.

That's just my take for what its worth.

Quote from: RealSpiritof98 on June 07, 2010, 03:57:37 PM
can't even begin to talk about that performance, whats this shite with Paul Hearty being a positive, right he didnt have a bad game but he lay down for the goal, the replay shows him on th ground before the ball is kicked

Jaysus, boy are you Armagh boys sore on your keepers. Will you never forgive him?  ??? You're nearly as sore on your keepers as Tyrone  ;D

The ball hit him on the thigh FFS! If the shot had been 6 inches lower and it would have been hailed as a great save by everyone (apart from you, obviously). That's what makes Freeman such a good goal getter.

At least he didn't come out feet first making himself narrow (and dangerous) like most county keepers (particularly of the "play outfield for their club" variety).

And what about saving the point? Armagh would have been stuffed by 13 points if wasn't for his heroics yesterday  ;D

Quote from: magpie seanie on June 07, 2010, 04:26:52 PM
I just want to take back what I said (much) earlier on this thread about the sending off. I don't think any connection was made with the elbow - think it came up after impact. I think Woods nose got busted because his head kind of buckled on impact and his nose hit the top of Mallon's shoulder or collar bone area. Mallons two feet were on the ground at time of impact so it mightnot actually have been a free. It looked bad because Woods wasn't expecting it and had only one foot on the ground. May not have been shoulder to shoulder completely but was defo hip to hip and the rules say "side to side" I think.
That's just my take for what its worth.

This was changed in the new rules, a charge is now defined as "shoulder to shoulder" rather than "side to side"

Quote from: ardchieftain on June 07, 2010, 04:02:38 PM
A thoroughly deserved victory for Monaghan but they must win an Ulster title now. I hope they do so.

As for Armagh - where does one start ?
Stevie and Jamie Clarke done well with the precious few balls put into them so they avoid criticism but apart from them only Paul Duffy can hold his head up today. There were one or two others who played ok but ok doesn't cut it in the chamionship.
The thing that is irking the life out of me is Armagh's lack of fight. I found it embarrassing. The body language said it all and the signs were there from just before Monaghan's goal. The defence looked like they'd never played with each other before.
Midfield - i've been critical of them for a while but gave them the benefit of the doubt after a few decent performances recently but they were exposed as decidedly average today.
We don't have a half forward line. AT ALL.
The sending off was the wrong decision. A lad goes into deliver a fair shoulder, his opponent turns into him and because of being a split second out the lad's game is over. ??????? Gaelic Football is being ruined.
The ref was cac. He didn't cost Armagh the game so it's not sour grapes. He booked several players from both sides for nothing. His instructions came from croke park though. I fear for the game of gaelic football, i really despair

Oh, and the armagh county board and their snub of paul grimley - well done. poetic justice in a way yesterday

Go and win Ulster Monaghan

Sludden doesn't need any directives from CP to fcuk up a game. He's been consistent in that regard since someone
gave him a whistle.

Quote from: magpie seanie on June 07, 2010, 04:26:52 PM
I just want to take back what I said (much) earlier on this thread about the sending off. I don't think any connection was made with the elbow - think it came up after impact. I think Woods nose got busted because his head kind of buckled on impact and his nose hit the top of Mallon's shoulder or collar bone area. Mallons two feet were on the ground at time of impact so it mightnot actually have been a free. It looked bad because Woods wasn't expecting it and had only one foot on the ground. May not have been shoulder to shoulder completely but was defo hip to hip and the rules say "side to side" I think.

That's just my take for what its worth.

Jaysus Magpie, where have you been the last couple of weeks? Late building your nest for the spring?

Summary of Playing Rule Changes 2010:
6.   Charge – A charge is now defined as "shoulder to shoulder" rather than "side to side"

There's a rumour going about that keeper's can now use a kicking tee device for kick outs, but I saw those cheating goalkeeping b*stards kicking a wide ball from the 13m line! The f**king cheek!

;)

I'd luv to hear Fearon's take on the Orangemen's humiliation ... probably all Tyrone's fault  ;D

As I mentioned in an earlier post I think all the pidgeons came home to roost.
Issues that were minor niggles during the league manifested themselves and resulted in that mess witnessed yesterday.
Such as;

Hearty                         Going to be hard to block a shot when lying in a pile on the goalline
A.Mallon                       Another poor and uncharacteristic performances
Unsettled Corner           The second corner back issue, Shannon should have started ahead of Martin
Midfield                        Disaster again
Mackin                         10 good mins against a tired Down time
A.Kernan                      Not working. Awful today
Henderson                   No sign at all
HF Line                       No Scores

Combined with a lack of fitness, effort and tactical awareness.
Also a paralysed management team who cannot see the writing on the wall.

Quote from: magpie seanie on June 07, 2010, 04:26:52 PM
I just want to take back what I said (much) earlier on this thread about the sending off. I don't think any connection was made with the elbow - think it came up after impact. I think Woods nose got busted because his head kind of buckled on impact and his nose hit the top of Mallon's shoulder or collar bone area. Mallons two feet were on the ground at time of impact so it mightnot actually have been a free. It looked bad because Woods wasn't expecting it and had only one foot on the ground. May not have been shoulder to shoulder completely but was defo hip to hip and the rules say "side to side" I think.

That's just my take for what its worth.

I've changed my mind a couple of times with it. At the match I thought it definitely wasn't a red. Watching the Sunday Game last night I thought the ref might have had a case but I've looked at it a couple of times on iplayer and I agree with Seanie's analysis. It was a shoulder, not an elbow. He didn't catch him square in the shoulder (though he fully intended to) so yellow card at most. What's so frustrating is that Trevor Mortimer did the exact same thing on Saturday night and got a yellow.

Quote from: magpie seanie on June 07, 2010, 04:26:52 PM
I just want to take back what I said (much) earlier on this thread about the sending off. I don't think any connection was made with the elbow - think it came up after impact. I think Woods nose got busted because his head kind of buckled on impact and his nose hit the top of Mallon's shoulder or collar bone area. Mallons two feet were on the ground at time of impact so it mightnot actually have been a free. It looked bad because Woods wasn't expecting it and had only one foot on the ground. May not have been shoulder to shoulder completely but was defo hip to hip and the rules say "side to side" I think.

That's just my take for what its worth.

I think you are close.
Mallon went to clatter Woods fairly, but he was reckless. Woods had jumped for the ball and just about landed and turned his head when his face was hit by Mallon's upper arm/shoulder.
Mallon has mistimed, the responsibility for that is with Mallon, not Woods.
Not reckless enough to get a red card but I can see why the ref regarded it as a red.

If it was Dessie Mone had done the clattering on Stevie Wonder's face, the Armagh boys would be spitting bile for 2 years, at least.
Us Monaghan folk are much more reasoned and forgiving.

Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on June 07, 2010, 04:35:24 PM
Sludden doesn't need any directives from CP to fcuk up a game. He's been consistent in that regard since someone
gave him a whistle.

Agreed.  I am glad a Tyronie said it first

Is Sludden being made a scapegoat for Armagh's awful performance from 15 minutes onwards?
I think you are deluding yourselves.

Firstly, well done to Monaghan, hopefully they will go on to win it.

Obviously very disappointing, I do hope we dont throw the baby out with the bathwater thou, we got a lesson yesterday (sending off very much contirbuting) hopefully we'll learn from it.  I really dont think there's a need for panic changes thou, a few months back we were hoping for tangible development and weren't expecting too much, the victory over Derry and league campaign infalted expectations wildly.  We are still essentially a new developing team, a kind draw in the qualifiers is crucial but i'd put money on us getting donegal and that's the sort of game we dont want, I think we need a soft one tbh to get the confidence up and momentum started.

I've never really been convinced about Lavery but it'll be him and Toner from now on (when fit), Vernon will have to take his HF role like it or lump it.  AK has had one half of a good game all year (1st v Derry) and the continual postive reviews have baffled me.  No harm to Mal Mackin, but he's not up for it, one good game in every four seems to keep on the radar and he has to be a casualty.  I thought F mo was woeful yesterday but he cant be dropped for one bad game, it would obviously be a big help if we could get Ronan Clarke back from what I have heard he's hoping for a mid-july return (if we are still about). 

Team I would like to see the next day:
Hearty
Mallon, Donaghy, Shannon or McKeown
Duffy, CMcK, F MO
Toner Lavery
Nippy, Vernon, MOR
Henderson, Stevie, J Clarke

Belfast Tele today says Clarke is back in plaster and will be out for the rest of the year.

Quote from: Main Street on June 07, 2010, 07:45:59 PM
Is Sludden being made a scapegoat for Armagh's awful performance from 15 minutes onwards?
I think you are deluding yourselves.

I didn't say anything of the sort MS.  I just agreed with a Tyronie who said

QuoteSludden doesn't need any directives from CP to fcuk up a game. He's been consistent in that regard since someone
gave him a whistle.

Have you never heard of this man's reputation as a ref before yesterday?

There was a lot of happy people around Clonoe and Coalisland when it was announced that Sludden was doing this match. He was supposed to be doing their match.

Quote from: Cde on June 07, 2010, 08:03:15 PM
There was a lot of happy people around Clonoe and Coalisland when it was announced that Sludden was doing this match. He was supposed to be doing their match.

You can say that again. Probably would have finished 7 a side >:(

Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on June 07, 2010, 07:28:49 PM

Quote from: magpie seanie on June 07, 2010, 04:26:52 PM
I just want to take back what I said (much) earlier on this thread about the sending off. I don't think any connection was made with the elbow - think it came up after impact. I think Woods nose got busted because his head kind of buckled on impact and his nose hit the top of Mallon's shoulder or collar bone area. Mallons two feet were on the ground at time of impact so it mightnot actually have been a free. It looked bad because Woods wasn't expecting it and had only one foot on the ground. May not have been shoulder to shoulder completely but was defo hip to hip and the rules say "side to side" I think.

That's just my take for what its worth.

I've changed my mind a couple of times with it. At the match I thought it definitely wasn't a red. Watching the Sunday Game last night I thought the ref might have had a case but I've looked at it a couple of times on iplayer and I agree with Seanie's analysis. It was a shoulder, not an elbow. He didn't catch him square in the shoulder (though he fully intended to) so yellow card at most. What's so frustrating is that Trevor Mortimer did the exact same thing on Saturday night and got a yellow.

I think Trevor Mortimer's one was a lot worse - it was straigh into Harrison's chest so never had a chance of being a fair charge.

Thanks to cornerback and OverThePostsisawide for the rule clarification. I'm usually up to date on the rules and would criticise others for not being so my humble apologies. I've a bit of reading to do it seems!!!!

Quote from: Take Your Points on June 07, 2010, 09:33:29 PM
Maybe someone leaked the tactics to Monaghan.

Again?

Quote from: INDIANA on June 07, 2010, 01:58:36 PM

Quote from: maddog on June 07, 2010, 12:02:07 PM

Quote from: Orior on June 07, 2010, 11:31:58 AM
On the positive side for Armagh:

1. Hearty's kickouts were good, he had no chance with the goal, and he saved a point by catching the ball on top of the crossbar. Well done Paul.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

If you are looking for another positive i thought Duffy was excellent.

Jamie Clarke looks class as well. A footballer as well. Not a bodybuilder.

second that

Quote from: pintsofguinness on June 07, 2010, 09:35:13 PM

Quote from: INDIANA on June 07, 2010, 01:58:36 PM

Quote from: maddog on June 07, 2010, 12:02:07 PM

Quote from: Orior on June 07, 2010, 11:31:58 AM
On the positive side for Armagh:

1. Hearty's kickouts were good, he had no chance with the goal, and he saved a point by catching the ball on top of the crossbar. Well done Paul.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

If you are looking for another positive i thought Duffy was excellent.

Jamie Clarke looks class as well. A footballer as well. Not a bodybuilder.

second that

Bodybuilder is a word I heard a few times since Sunday

What worked against Derry (strength and size) didn't work much against monaghan

Well done Monaghan you totally deserved the win and I hope you win Ulster.

From an Armagh perspective lets hope we draw a couple of Handy games in the qualifiers (similar to Meath last year) and build up a bit of momentum, judging by yesterdays  performance we will be in trouble if we draw any of the big teams in the draw (Mayo,Kildare)

Quote from: borderfox on June 07, 2010, 10:26:49 PM
Well done Monaghan you totally deserved the win and I hope you win Ulster.

From an Armagh perspective lets hope we draw a couple of Handy games in the qualifiers (similar to Meath last year) and build up a bit of momentum, judging by yesterdays  performance we will be in trouble if we draw any of the big teams in the draw (Mayo,Kildare)

I wouldn't fancy our chances, even if we played ye in Inisturk.

Quote from: muppet on June 07, 2010, 10:30:22 PM

Quote from: borderfox on June 07, 2010, 10:26:49 PM
Well done Monaghan you totally deserved the win and I hope you win Ulster.

From an Armagh perspective lets hope we draw a couple of Handy games in the qualifiers (similar to Meath last year) and build up a bit of momentum, judging by yesterdays  performance we will be in trouble if we draw any of the big teams in the draw (Mayo,Kildare)

I wouldn't fancy our chances, even if we played ye in Inisturk.

It'd be a great boost for the winner. I'd say they're two fairly evenly matched teams, Mayo would be slight favourites. Maybe a big win is just what either would need to get confidence going though I always maintain that you want as easy draw as possible in every round. Winning 5 weeks in a row is a difficult task.

Armagh Mayo would probably be in Roscommon or Cavan?

Can't see the logic why people think Ronan Clarke is the answer to Armagh's problems.  For a start he has played no football at this level all year, bar 5mins against Donegal I think. secondly for a guy with his size and strength he spends to much time on the ground, seems like the smallest man on the opposing team could put him down and even if he was fit to play he's be hacked to death by the sandwich brigade as the lad wouldn't be up to speed at all no matter how good he is.

Armagh Gaels need to get real & start with the weed out and county board level, then start picking the best man for the job which is clearly not the case at present in respect of management & players.
The whole squad is full of average players, bar 6 or 7, until the clubs have a say or be allowed to select the management and not the county sponsor then this is the shite that appear when the cracks open as the did yesterday

Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on June 07, 2010, 10:33:40 PM

Quote from: muppet on June 07, 2010, 10:30:22 PM

Quote from: borderfox on June 07, 2010, 10:26:49 PM
Well done Monaghan you totally deserved the win and I hope you win Ulster.

From an Armagh perspective lets hope we draw a couple of Handy games in the qualifiers (similar to Meath last year) and build up a bit of momentum, judging by yesterdays  performance we will be in trouble if we draw any of the big teams in the draw (Mayo,Kildare)

I wouldn't fancy our chances, even if we played ye in Inisturk.

It'd be a great boost for the winner. I'd say they're two fairly evenly matched teams, Mayo would be slight favourites. Maybe a big win is just what either would need to get confidence going though I always maintain that you want as easy draw as possible in every round. Winning 5 weeks in a row is a difficult task.

Armagh Mayo would probably be in Roscommon or Cavan?

Are the first few rounds not in the home venue of the first county out of the hat?

Quote from: goh4205 on June 07, 2010, 10:35:23 PM
Can't see the logic why people think Ronan Clarke is the answer to Armagh's problems.  For a start he has played no football at this level all year, bar 5mins against Donegal I think. secondly for a guy with his size and strength he spends to much time on the ground, seems like the smallest man on the opposing team could put him down and even if he was fit to play he's be hacked to death by the sandwich brigade as the lad wouldn't be up to speed at all no matter how good he is.

Armagh Gaels need to get real & start with the weed out and county board level, then start picking the best man for the job which is clearly not the case at present in respect of management & players.
The whole squad is full of average players, bar 6 or 7, until the clubs have a say or be allowed to select the management and not the county sponsor then this is the shite that appear when the cracks open as the did yesterday

What other cross players would u have on goh?

HeArd today that the ref phoned both managers during the week with warnings concerning certain players?

On the issue of selection, within Armagh it is all wrong. This year was the perfect opportunity to wipe the slate completely clean and give all players a chance. Sticking with the same players year in year out that are under achieving will get you knowhere. I agree 100% that armagh need to select players instead of guys that are six foot and packed with strength. I am no fitness expert but some of these players look very heavy and sluggish. Vernon, lavery in particular have booties ffs. Players should be picked on ability not on size.

There are much better players in the county than IMO about 7 or 8 on that panel. There are too many on the panel because of their names and supposed potential whilst lads are consistently knocking in consistently great performances at club level and not getting a sniff. The players are also not getting enough club football. Armagh county team has become a separate entity not open to outsiders. The team itself needs brought closer to the clubs. Within my own club their would be a lot that wouldn't have a great opinion of Armagh . It is went all to professional and in the midst we have lost the true basics of the game ie scoring wins games. Very frustrating to watch Armagh over the last ten years because although they have some record in ulster they would have to seriously go down as under achievers.

A fressh approach is required throughout the whole county, trials should be held each year for new talent and not thrown in so as the management can say they had them. Going into trials with a panel already in your head isn't good enough. You find yourself actually focusing on certain people and ignoring potential stars. Also no players should be permitted to abstain from trials and be picked unless the reason is valid.   Dyas for example left his native game to go in search of greener pastures. He didn't really care about Armagh but when he returned he was thrown straight into the county team. Whilst other club players where completly overlooked. IMO Dyas has done absolutely nothing gor Armagh to warrant such privilages. Until the systemchanges I fear the tactics will remain the same and these types of debate shall be a regular occurance.

good post winsam.

Quote from: winsamsoon on June 08, 2010, 01:17:09 AM
HeArd today that the ref phoned both managers during the week with warnings concerning certain players?

On the issue of selection, within Armagh it is all wrong. This year was the perfect opportunity to wipe the slate completely clean and give all players a chance. Sticking with the same players year in year out that are under achieving will get you knowhere. I agree 100% that armagh need to select players instead of guys that are six foot and packed with strength. I am no fitness expert but some of these players look very heavy and sluggish. Vernon, lavery in particular have booties ffs. Players should be picked on ability not on size.

There are much better players in the county than IMO about 7 or 8 on that panel. There are too many on the panel because of their names and supposed potential whilst lads are consistently knocking in consistently great performances at club level and not getting a sniff. The players are also not getting enough club football. Armagh county team has become a separate entity not open to outsiders. The team itself needs brought closer to the clubs. Within my own club their would be a lot that wouldn't have a great opinion of Armagh . It is went all to professional and in the midst we have lost the true basics of the game ie scoring wins games. Very frustrating to watch Armagh over the last ten years because although they have some record in ulster they would have to seriously go down as under achievers.

A fressh approach is required throughout the whole county, trials should be held each year for new talent and not thrown in so as the management can say they had them. Going into trials with a panel already in your head isn't good enough. You find yourself actually focusing on certain people and ignoring potential stars. Also no players should be permitted to abstain from trials and be picked unless the reason is valid.   Dyas for example left his native game to go in search of greener pastures. He didn't really care about Armagh but when he returned he was thrown straight into the county team. Whilst other club players where completly overlooked. IMO Dyas has done absolutely nothing for Armagh to warrant such privilages. Until the systemchanges I fear the tactics will remain the same and these types of debate shall be a regular occurance.

I agree this is a great post but can you please identify the names of the club players who are currently being overlooked by the Armagh management team? Who in particular would you have dropped from the current panel? I don't like to single out certain players but Brian Mallon without even considering yesterdays performance has to be one of the most overrated footballers in Armagh. The starting full forward line on Sunday should have been Jamie Clarke, Steven McDonnell and Stefan Forker. One other fact about Sunday's game was the performance of referee Sludden from Tyrone which was an absolute shambles. His approach of making the rules up as he went along significantly contributed to a young inexperienced Armagh team getting extremely frustrated and eventually throwing in the towel. I've heard that Sludden is banned from referring some of the college football games because of his consistently inept performances as a "referee". Armagh should seriously consider appealing the decision if he is ever assigned to referee any of their games in the future.

Not if they had played to now would Armagh have beaten that Monaghan team Pat
The Ref played little part in the outcome and to suggest otherwise wreaks of sour grapes!

That is a general post that in theory applies to every county team. The reality is that most of it is way off the mark.
For example, anyone who thinks vernon is carrying an ounce of extra weight is ill informed.

I'd also love to know these club players who are consistently putting in performances that are being overlooked for county honours? trials are a complete waste of everyone's time and energy. The whole concept is flawed. You are better seeing and judging players in their natural environment with their clubs and aking informed decisions on their capabilities at the higher level. That is why there is a management team. In every panel, the final 8 positions will porbably always be interchangable with the next best 8 outside the cut off. management have to make decisions there on hunches or the type of player they favour.

Picking Dyas out as an example of someone being privileged is a nonsense. In particular, claiming that the lad should be punished for taking up the offer of a professional sports contract is a total nonsense. What about someone who goes off to find work in england or elsewhere... how long should their banishment from our county team then last? should it be a multiple of the time spent away?

If so many of these players are so bad, how is it now that 3 consequetive management teams have selected them after looking at the footballers in the county? do we really believe that all of these football men are so dense or that they have some sort of agenda to not include the best footballers in the county? that'd really help them do their jobs.

Pat - you just posted that forker should have started. given his form over the last 2 years (at what stage does a players form simply become his level?), he is a very lucky boy to get a county jersey at all.

Quote from: DuffleKing on June 08, 2010, 08:34:30 AM

That is a general post that in theory applies to every county team. The reality is that most of it is way off the mark.
For example, anyone who thinks vernon is carrying an ounce of extra weight is ill informed.

I'd also love to know these club players who are consistently putting in performances that are being overlooked for county honours? trials are a complete waste of everyone's time and energy. The whole concept is flawed. You are better seeing and judging players in their natural environment with their clubs and aking informed decisions on their capabilities at the higher level. That is why there is a management team. In every panel, the final 8 positions will porbably always be interchangable with the next best 8 outside the cut off. management have to make decisions there on hunches or the type of player they favour.

Picking Dyas out as an example of someone being privileged is a nonsense. In particular, claiming that the lad should be punished for taking up the offer of a professional sports contract is a total nonsense. What about someone who goes off to find work in england or elsewhere... how long should their banishment from our county team then last? should it be a multiple of the time spent away?

If so many of these players are so bad, how is it now that 3 consequetive management teams have selected them after looking at the footballers in the county? do we really believe that all of these football men are so dense or that they have some sort of agenda to not include the best footballers in the county? that'd really help them do their jobs.

Pat - you just posted that forker should have started. given his form over the last 2 years (at what stage does a players form simply become his level?), he is a very lucky boy to get a county jersey at all.

Better post than winsam's.

Its like theres a "good post" competiton going on...and im not even from ar ma

Last year (and for most of the previous 2 or 3 yeas) one of the best club footballers in the county was Mal Mackin. Now he's been brought into the set-up and given gametime, people aren't happy with him.

I'd see a fair bit of club football in Armagh I'm really not sure that there are too many players who stand out as being of real quality and capable of making the step up to intercounty football and haven't been given the chance with Armagh so far. The real changes in the near future will no doubt be the Minor squad from last year stepping up. I was at the St Pat's v Killeavy match on Friday night and Robbie Tasker and King from Killeavy were head and shoulders above anybody else on the pitch.

Quote from: DuffleKing on June 08, 2010, 08:34:30 AM

That is a general post that in theory applies to every county team. The reality is that most of it is way off the mark.
For example, anyone who thinks vernon is carrying an ounce of extra weight is ill informed.

I'd also love to know these club players who are consistently putting in performances that are being overlooked for county honours? trials are a complete waste of everyone's time and energy. The whole concept is flawed. You are better seeing and judging players in their natural environment with their clubs and aking informed decisions on their capabilities at the higher level. That is why there is a management team. In every panel, the final 8 positions will porbably always be interchangable with the next best 8 outside the cut off. management have to make decisions there on hunches or the type of player they favour.

Picking Dyas out as an example of someone being privileged is a nonsense. In particular, claiming that the lad should be punished for taking up the offer of a professional sports contract is a total nonsense. What about someone who goes off to find work in england or elsewhere... how long should their banishment from our county team then last? should it be a multiple of the time spent away?

If so many of these players are so bad, how is it now that 3 consequetive management teams have selected them after looking at the footballers in the county? do we really believe that all of these football men are so dense or that they have some sort of agenda to not include the best footballers in the county? that'd really help them do their jobs.

Pat - you just posted that forker should have started. given his form over the last 2 years (at what stage does a players form simply become his level?), he is a very lucky boy to get a county jersey at all.

I took from his post that perhaps Dyas doesn't deserve to be on the county team based on his football performances to date.
I'd tend to agree.

I don't think it has anything to do with what he did or where he went, more to the point - is he good enough or was he ever?

A few weeks ago and we were all c**k a hoop and now we want players heads on stakes!  The reality is that the Armagh team is still a good side but are 2-3 players short of being a real contender for championships.  Also the big thing that is missing is real leaders.  When things starting going wrong there was around the middle of the field who was able to take control of things among the players and settle things down.  The reality is that they are still a relatively young bunch in terms of county football and are still a bit inexperienced.  There are players who started on Sunday are not up to the standard of county football full stop.  there are players who started on Sunday who are up to the standard but who did not play up to that level. 

The management made the right changes but they were 15 minutes too late.  Midfield was being cleaned out and needed things changed.  Martin was not up to it.  Mackin was not up to it.  These players may be honest to goodness lads but are they really anywhere close to the standard?  I thought Martin might be but I don't think he is. His game awareness is poor.  Mal Mackin has no end product if he does get the ball.  He is a good club footballer but there is a huge difference in what is needed at county level.

It is not all doom and gloom though as Stevie and Jamie seem to work well together and give a good balance in there.  If you had the other Clarke in there that is a serious FF line.  The full back line would be immeasurably improved by adding in either Paul McKeown or Shannon in place of Martin.  Mallon would need to pull his socks up ever higher as he has been struggling this year but Donaghy is fine.  He played against one of the brightest young forwards in Ulster in McManus who picked up over 30 scores in the National League this year.  He was that small bit sharper than Donaghy to the ball and that was the big difference.  The HB line is solid enough and Duffy is shwowng his true value to the team which ahs been missed for the last few years. 

Midfield needs to get their act together and Toner and Lavery need to start there.  Lavery may look very ungainly but he wins a world of possession.  He needs to be taught to catch and give though. 

The HF line was the big disappointment the other day.  Aaron was poor but he has been playing well so I would persist with him in their.  Vernon seems more effective in the WF role and is a great outlet for the kickouts(which I must add were very good from Paul, he has put a lot of his critics in their place in the last 2 games), Swift is good but needs to get into the game more.  He drifts too much and sometimes looked a bit weak on the ball.  The biggest failing they have is either subconsciously or tactically they play too deep.  The amount of times the ball was picked up in the pocket around the Armagh HB line and had to be fed across the line was unreal.  There were no outlest in the HF line as they were all playing too deep.  It is time to go for an attacking HF line because it showed that when you allow teasm to come onto you it is simply inviting trouble.  By all means have Charlie working with the kickouts but he and Swift need to hold their line to offer the target for the defence coming out.  You could also push Dyas in there for Swift to do the same role.

In the FF line without Clarke, I would go for Henderson.  He has shown he can win his own ball, take a score and create a score.  He is a better option than Forker at this stage and if you have him in one corner and Jamie in the other it offers a nice balance.

So for the next game I would go for

Hearty

Mallon  Donaghy  Mckeown/Shannon

Duffy  McKeever  Finn Mo

Toner  Lavery

Vernon  AK  Swift/Dyas

J Clarke  Stevie  Henderson

Quote from: Main Street on June 07, 2010, 07:32:22 PM

Quote from: magpie seanie on June 07, 2010, 04:26:52 PM
I just want to take back what I said (much) earlier on this thread about the sending off. I don't think any connection was made with the elbow - think it came up after impact. I think Woods nose got busted because his head kind of buckled on impact and his nose hit the top of Mallon's shoulder or collar bone area. Mallons two feet were on the ground at time of impact so it mightnot actually have been a free. It looked bad because Woods wasn't expecting it and had only one foot on the ground. May not have been shoulder to shoulder completely but was defo hip to hip and the rules say "side to side" I think.

That's just my take for what its worth.

I think you are close.
Mallon went to clatter Woods fairly, but he was reckless. Woods had jumped for the ball and just about landed and turned his head when his face was hit by Mallon's upper arm/shoulder.
Mallon has mistimed, the responsibility for that is with Mallon, not Woods.
Not reckless enough to get a red card but I can see why the ref regarded it as a red.

If it was Dessie Mone had done the clattering on Stevie Wonder's face, the Armagh boys would be spitting bile for 2 years, at least.
Us Monaghan folk are much more reasoned and forgiving.

Nobody's blaming Woods, the challenge was mistimed slightly and Woods got hurt, no doubt.  But a mistimed challenge should not lead to a red card otherwise lads will start to pull out of physical exchanges in case they get sent off over a timing issue. Wouldn't overplay the ref thing though, the red card wasn't the losing of the game but it did determine the margin of defeat.

Very unfair to start naming players that are unfit for the squad...........there were a number of disappointing performances but the lads NAMED on this thread are training several times a week and they are the best that the county can produce.

Kevin Dyas is a class footballer who has been hampered with a career threatening injury and is working his balls off to try to get onto the team. It's poor form to post that on here.

Great post BCB1, 100% agree............

It doesn't matter who you have on if they can't run and tackle for 70 minutes. 

Too much weights and not fit to stay with the Monaghan ones was a problem - look at how fast they were.

It was fine against Derry who were poor and slow, but against a team like Monaghan who get a run going, there's nothing you can do but stay with them and Armagh couldn't.

Hearty

Mallon  Donaghy  Mckeown/Shannon

Duffy  McKeever  Finn Mo

Toner  Lavery

Vernon  AK  Swift/Dyas
J Clarke  Stevie  Henderson

Is a big part of the problem that none of the proposed half forward line play there regularly for their club, and two are converted half backs.
You need scoring forwards to win matches and unfortunately Armagh do not have enough at the moment.
Is Miceal O'Rourke not on the panel any longer?
I also think that Ronan Clarke's injuries are catching up on him....he will end up crippled if he does not watch himself......a fantstic player when fully fit.
Don't know who else Armagh could play in the half forward line at this stage.
I think Monaghan are a very good team and will be difficult to beat.   

 

Quote from: Hedley Lamarr on June 08, 2010, 11:13:12 AM
Vernon  AK  Swift/Dyas
J Clarke  Stevie  Henderson

Is a big part of the problem that none of the proposed half forward line play there regularly for their club, and two are converted half backs.

I agree Hedley but you have to work with what you have.  They can all score though and that is important.  But to score you have to play further up the pitch.  There were a number of occassions when Armagh got the ball in the half back line and all 3 half forwards were eithe level with or behind the ball!  That is simply unacceptable.  I play on the HF line even though it is only Junior level and the one thing that I keep shouting at the lads is that we need 2 of them on that line all the time.  Armagh under JK always had 2, generally Marsden and Oisin, but is one of them dropped deep John mac was there.  Swift should not go beyond the MF and neither should Aaron.  Vernon could drop deep but not into his own HB line.  No matter how good a forward line is if they are not getting quality ball from their own HB line/Midfield they will not score.  To do this Armagh need to compete in these areas all the time and that did not happen on Sunday until it was too late.

agree with Bcb1 and duffleking the players we have at the moment are the best. There may be room for maybe one or two others like Newtown's O rourke but thats all I can think of. Armagh is a small county player wise . rarely does talent get overlooked .

On some occassions maybe but not that often . I believe that the squad we have at the moment is the best in the conty whether it is good enough or not remains to be seen. Of the Armagh team on show on Sunday nearly all the team had either minor  u-21 or senior ulster or All-Ireland medals  bar maybe two.(Only Tyrone could match that) What had Monaghan ??  Not a medal in sight.. They had the experience though of a team playing together for now close on 6 years. They have  a few forwards that would grace any team in the country including Cork Tyrone or Kerry.

Mistakes were made all over the place on Sunday including on the line on the field and even I bleieve choice of venue. I firmly believe we should have went to Clones . Expectations would have maybe unsettled them.. Monaghan folks will tell you that Clones is definetly not their happy hunting ground (even though they beat us on the last two occassions ) .
I suppose to be fair to paddy and co it was a case of damend if you do damned if you dont.
But BcB and duffleking your are right this is a young team it will take time to sort out . I beat Monaghan would love to have  an all-ireland minor team waiting in the wings with another possible one (hopefully)
Baby and bathwater seems about right.

what has barry shannon done wrong
he played against down and hasnt had a sniff since even though fm and am were cleaned out on sunday

what is the true story with R clarke--s hould we not just forget about him and allow him a year out of football to allow his injuries to heal, ng p

Quote from: INDIANA on June 07, 2010, 01:47:28 PM

Quote from: mackers on June 07, 2010, 12:23:24 PM

Quote from: INDIANA on June 07, 2010, 11:29:53 AM

Quote from: mackers on June 07, 2010, 11:26:08 AM
The next move will be to ban the shoulder charge altogether and I'm going to start watching real contact sports like hockey or something!!

Lot of knee jerk reactions going on here, in the cold light of day Monaghan are a more experienced outfit than this Armagh team. They are hell bent on getting an Ulster title that they feel they deserve and were by far the hungrier team. We are clearly a team in transition with a new management in place and we're playing without one of our two class forwards. We got promoted out of a very poor Division and the management need one if not two more years to develop us into a team challenging for honours. Divsion 1 football next spring will bring us on hopefully.

None of our much maligned HF line (the main source of our problems yesterday along with our CHB)  lined out in their positions on a regular basis for us before which especially in the case of Nippy Swift is an indictment of the previous regime. I would persist with Swift and AK in their positions and use Mackin as a sub. Our midfield was made up of two lads of about 23 who came up against a formidable and experienced pairing in Lennon and Clerkin. Vernon and Toner will be an outstanding pairing in a few years, ably assisted by Lavery (aged 23/24) who is a player that I didn't rate but he's much better than I gave him credit for. 

If we can get a handy draw in the qualifiers and get Ronan Clarke fit then we will achieve our aim for the year IMO which is to get to an AIQF. New teams and new management trying to change a style of play will lead to huge swings in performance like we have experienced this year. Hopefully the players will continue to work hard and keep their hunger and the management continue to learn from their mistakes.

23 is a fully grown senior inter county footballer. Bit old to be playing the youth card.

Rubbish..........at 23/24 McGeeney, McGrane et al were getting their arses whipped by Derry, they learnt from that, hopefully our lads will learn from this also. Players aren't in their prime until 26-28. The other thrust of my argument is that the lads of that age are only getting to play in their positions now (with the exception of Kieran Toner who has played a few years in MF at this stage).

Lavery looks like the only one with the required tools. Armagh are at a crossroads One wonders will that little wizard off their minors at corner forward last year be given a shot at it. Or simply be deemed too small. The latter I'd suspect. A sea change is required in Armagh football in my view. Talent has to supercede size. Currently in Armagh the latter is king IMO.

Have to agree with that indiana, it seems that POR places a lot of emphasis on size in his team, rather than a genuine scoring threat and a bit of flair (exception jamie clarke). It seems he is content to play midfielfders as half forwards, and IMO the team will never improve without 5/6 forwards who have the potential to get you at least 2-3 points per game. You only have to look at teams like Cork and Kerry; they do not rely on 1 forward to get all their scores. Their whole forward line can take a score and they are miles ahead of Armagh at the minute. The good thing is that the squad is young and hopefully they will produce their best in the next couple of years

On a desperately disappointing day for Armagh football Paddy O'Rourke revealed that Rónán Clarke's Achilles injury is much worse than initially feared and it now appears that his leg will be put back in plaster — effectively ruling him out of the remainder of the Championship..

Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/gaa/orsquorourke-determined-to-respond-after-armagh-defeat-14832577.html#ixzz0qEQ6FaSi

Quote from: PatDaly on June 08, 2010, 12:56:26 PM
On a desperately disappointing day for Armagh football Paddy O'Rourke revealed that Rónán Clarke's Achilles injury is much worse than initially feared and it now appears that his leg will be put back in plaster — effectively ruling him out of the remainder of the Championship..

Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/gaa/orsquorourke-determined-to-respond-after-armagh-defeat-14832577.html#ixzz0qEQ6FaSi

Bad news.


Massive loss.

Armagh are definitely a team in transition at the minute & I think their supporters need to accept this.
On very rare occassions will you get players lining out at HF who actually play there for their clubs. County players tend to be the main men for their club teams & fill central positions so it is silly to suggest that your HF line will actually be playing in that position for thier clubs.
A few years ago Armagh made a very conscious decision to start going for players who were big, physical & dominated their opponent. You cant blame Paddy O'Rourke for continuing that trend, as if we are being honest he had come in & wiped 7/8 boys off last years panel there wouldve been uproar.
When they were winning Ulster titles with bodybuilders nobody batted an eyelid but as soon as they get a tanking there is hysterics.
The fact is Armagh have lost some serious leaders over the past few years, McGeeney, McConville, McEntee's,McGrane, Bellew etc & none of the current crop outside of McKeever or McDonnell look capable of filling that void.
What bugs me at times & Ive already mentioned this on the Down thread is very few managers will actually pick the best 30 footballers in the County for their panel. Too many fellas that were a good minor or U-21 make it into Senior panels purely on the basis of what they have done in the past.
Club football is a much better measurement of were guys are currently at in terms of their ability as with the trial system you are guaranteed that its nothing more than a couple of games to keep the clubs happy that their guys have been looked at, when in reality all but 1 or 2 positions on the panel have been pre-selected.
It happens in every county & will continue to so you just have to get on with it!
What will define whether this turns out to be seen as a succesful year for Armagh or not will be their ability to bounce back & regroup & look at the qualifiers as a measurement of how far they have come under O'Rourke because last Sunday in my eyes Armagh were nowhere near as bad as the scoreline suggests!!

Appreciate the comments from the Armagh folk on here wishing us to win the anglo celt now... A good sign of the calibre the Armagh support has. We certainly hope to close our 22 year wait..

Monaghan won on Sunday in a lot of positions. We won with the experience of playing together over a few years, the options up front we have and their complete desire to win an Ulster title this year. The hunger was clearly demonstrated by McQuaid and D Freeman, who both temporarily quit the panel to re-charge their desire.

The sending off was a big factor in the final score-line but thought we were on top at that stage anyway. Sending off was at least a yellow, but an unfortunate red. Dont think there was any malice in it.

Putting Hughes in goal could have turned out to be the biggest stick to hit Banty with. Strange decision considering Hughes is one of our best perfoming outfield players. Felt for the sub-goalie as it appears it has been a 6 month waste of his time training etc. It's a short term fix but we needs Hughes playing outfield to win anything of note this year.

Sunday was a really enjoyable day for us. Days like that in the Ulster championship have been few and far between for us recently. Really hope we can carry on, reach the Ulster final and win silverware.

Muineachan Abu

Quote from: ardmhachaabu on June 07, 2010, 07:52:52 PM
Have you never heard of this man's reputation as a ref before yesterday?

I heard of him but couldn't remember watching a game he reffed.  After 6 yellow cards for Monaghan and 2 substitutions made before I finished my glass of .... orange juice, I was brought me up to scratch with speed.
There were plenty of soft yellows, eg Freeman and McDonnell in particular, but others were deserved.
I would reserve final judgement until I see what it would take a player (already on a yellow) to do, before Sludden would flash a 2nd yellow.
Watching it on a tv, I can't tell what amount of niggly stuff there was, but it looked a sporting game with both teams very disciplined. The yellow cards did not unduly mess up the game.
The red card was a big one, but as I wrote, it looked all over an ugly challenge with a flailing elbow, until closer inspection revealed that the ref could/should have given the benefit of doubt to Mallon. The closer inspection was only really revealed by the camera angle from behind the Monaghan goal.

Sunday was an awful day for Armagh. But there are plenty of obviously talented players there and a couple of wins in the qualifiers will improve your mood.

Quote from: BNAB10 on June 08, 2010, 12:55:48 PM

Quote from: INDIANA on June 07, 2010, 01:47:28 PM

Quote from: mackers on June 07, 2010, 12:23:24 PM

Quote from: INDIANA on June 07, 2010, 11:29:53 AM

Quote from: mackers on June 07, 2010, 11:26:08 AM
The next move will be to ban the shoulder charge altogether and I'm going to start watching real contact sports like hockey or something!!

Lot of knee jerk reactions going on here, in the cold light of day Monaghan are a more experienced outfit than this Armagh team. They are hell bent on getting an Ulster title that they feel they deserve and were by far the hungrier team. We are clearly a team in transition with a new management in place and we're playing without one of our two class forwards. We got promoted out of a very poor Division and the management need one if not two more years to develop us into a team challenging for honours. Divsion 1 football next spring will bring us on hopefully.

None of our much maligned HF line (the main source of our problems yesterday along with our CHB)  lined out in their positions on a regular basis for us before which especially in the case of Nippy Swift is an indictment of the previous regime. I would persist with Swift and AK in their positions and use Mackin as a sub. Our midfield was made up of two lads of about 23 who came up against a formidable and experienced pairing in Lennon and Clerkin. Vernon and Toner will be an outstanding pairing in a few years, ably assisted by Lavery (aged 23/24) who is a player that I didn't rate but he's much better than I gave him credit for. 

If we can get a handy draw in the qualifiers and get Ronan Clarke fit then we will achieve our aim for the year IMO which is to get to an AIQF. New teams and new management trying to change a style of play will lead to huge swings in performance like we have experienced this year. Hopefully the players will continue to work hard and keep their hunger and the management continue to learn from their mistakes.

23 is a fully grown senior inter county footballer. Bit old to be playing the youth card.

Rubbish..........at 23/24 McGeeney, McGrane et al were getting their arses whipped by Derry, they learnt from that, hopefully our lads will learn from this also. Players aren't in their prime until 26-28. The other thrust of my argument is that the lads of that age are only getting to play in their positions now (with the exception of Kieran Toner who has played a few years in MF at this stage).

Lavery looks like the only one with the required tools. Armagh are at a crossroads One wonders will that little wizard off their minors at corner forward last year be given a shot at it. Or simply be deemed too small. The latter I'd suspect. A sea change is required in Armagh football in my view. Talent has to supercede size. Currently in Armagh the latter is king IMO.

Have to agree with that indiana, it seems that POR places a lot of emphasis on size in his team, rather than a genuine scoring threat and a bit of flair (exception jamie clarke). It seems he is content to play midfielfders as half forwards, and IMO the team will never improve without 5/6 forwards who have the potential to get you at least 2-3 points per game. You only have to look at teams like Cork and Kerry; they do not rely on 1 forward to get all their scores. Their whole forward line can take a score and they are miles ahead of Armagh at the minute. The good thing is that the squad is young and hopefully they will produce their best in the next couple of years

I'm not so sure that it's as simple as that. Outside of the wing forward positions, the players selected are there because they're the best the county has to offer, not because of their size. The half forward line has been a long term problem for us, and it seems in the absence of any stand out candidates to fill the 10 and 12 jerseys that O'Rourke decided to throw in a couple of big men. Even at that, Swift's footballing ability probably justifies his selection. It's easy to throw out broad, unspecific criticisms, but when looked at in detail, the number of positions where size has ousted footballing ability is very minimal.

i am a big armagh man and was very dissapointed yesterday, not by losing but by the manner in which they lost. they really did throw in the towel and had no fight to get back into the game. this team is without doubt in transition, but there should be no excuse for pride and passion in the jersey, and i just feel this was an off day for armagh regarding their fight and hunger. have read through alot of the posts and disagree with a few things. kevin dyas is an exceptional player and to say that he doesnt care about armagh is just plain stupid, he needs to start the next game at wing forward. vincy martin is no where near county standard and shannon or young mekeown should be given the next start in defence. also what is in the panel at the minute is the best players in armagh at the minute...fact. yes, i have heard great reports about the minors of last year, grugan, tasker, king etc, but for god sake give them a chance to develop, before we take them into the county setup, they will be around for the next 15 years.

the referee was a joke yesterday, everything seems to be a yellow card, and many for nothing....on both teams. mcmanus, mone, toner, donaghy....all giving yellows for offenses that would warrant a tick never mind a yellow. and then the monaghan man who shouldered ak off the ball was giving a rightful yellow card.....so how can you compare yellow cards? the man hasnt a clue, he actually missed a couple of illegal handpasses....because he was looking to where the pass was going and not the man passing the ball...keep your eye on the ball you clown.

lastly to monaghan, fair paly, the team is in some shape, and playing good football, best of luck and hope you's win ulster!!!

Quote from: DuffleKing on June 08, 2010, 08:34:30 AM

That is a general post that in theory applies to every county team. The reality is that most of it is way off the mark.
For example, anyone who thinks vernon is carrying an ounce of extra weight is ill informed.

I'd also love to know these club players who are consistently putting in performances that are being overlooked for county honours? trials are a complete waste of everyone's time and energy. The whole concept is flawed. You are better seeing and judging players in their natural environment with their clubs and aking informed decisions on their capabilities at the higher level. That is why there is a management team. In every panel, the final 8 positions will porbably always be interchangable with the next best 8 outside the cut off. management have to make decisions there on hunches or the type of player they favour.

Picking Dyas out as an example of someone being privileged is a nonsense. In particular, claiming that the lad should be punished for taking up the offer of a professional sports contract is a total nonsense. What about someone who goes off to find work in england or elsewhere... how long should their banishment from our county team then last? should it be a multiple of the time spent away?

If so many of these players are so bad, how is it now that 3 consequetive management teams have selected them after looking at the footballers in the county? do we really believe that all of these football men are so dense or that they have some sort of agenda to not include the best footballers in the county? that'd really help them do their jobs.

Pat - you just posted that forker should have started. given his form over the last 2 years (at what stage does a players form simply become his level?), he is a very lucky boy to get a county jersey at all.

Firstly it may be a general post but that still doesn't mean it isn't relevant to the current situation.

Secondly Vernon is too Heavy as is Lavery. This is not saying they are fat as muscle mass can also make you too heavy and decrease speed levels. Gaelic football needs explosive power particularly over a 20 yard area Vernon and Lavery and noticeable slow over this space.

Fair enough if you thinks trials are a waste of time then i would be happy if the players where looked at in their natural environment but this is not happeneing in Armagh. It is maybe happening for one or two teams but for every team in the county it is definetly not. I am not going to name players who should be brought into the panel because this will only further complicate the debate as people will agree and disagree accordingly. It is not an easy job being a county manager i am not going to start lol.

On the issue of Dyas, I would disagree with you and say that he is indeed privilleaged, as is any man who puts on a county jersey. This is a lad who went away from the Armagh set up to pursue another life for himself. Fair play to him for doing that and i am in no way criticising him for this and of course he shouldn't be punished for it.  I am merely stating the facts of what he did.However he should have to earn the right to be in a county panel. He should do this through the same channels as everyone else ie club performances. To date i haven't seen anything special from him or his club who seem to have gone backwards this year. So I wasn't slating Dyas (i actually think the lad had fantastic ability prior to leaving) but my gripe is that he needs to prove his worth. There was no talk of banishing anyone in my post.

I also didn't say that the majority of the players are bad. I said around 7-8 could easily be replaced with 7-8 better footballing players in Armagh. I stand by this statement as i have played club football and there are some tricky footballers out there who are being overlooked.

I also never said any managers where dense. On the issue of the three consecutive managers it is the GENERAL theory that when new managers take over they maintain most of the status quo that has existed previous to their position. My post called for a clean slate to be drawn this doesn't mean that current players should all be abolished if they are worth their salt they will certainly be selected. The county team at the moment isn't a bad team ceratinly not as bad as they showed on sunday but it is far from the finished article that will contest All Irelands.

POR in particular had the perfect opportunity this year, coming in as an outsider he had the perfect chance to see the club players in action. In all honesty what does POR know about Armagh club football? This is not a criticism but a mere fact. His background staff are mostly based outside of the county for the last 5 years so what would they know of emerging talents. Instead they go on the status quo, media hype and hersay from a lot of sources. IMO opinion the only way forward is to select a team with an open book. Not maintain the big man attitude but rather try to move football back to the basics and play players with natural ability . These players do exist in the county.

I disagree with Pat about Forker i think he is a decent enough player but he hasn't warranted any starting positions IMO.

Bottom line it is not my intention to slate the Armagh county panel, i follow them through and through and personally know some of the lads and how hard they train and i take my hat of to all of them. But there are a lot of other lads in the county who would jump at the chance to be where they are and i think we missed a great opportunity this year. MY own club have had to do it, at present we are having to play a lot of young lads as the older men have moved on. The clare Hurlers did it yesterday against waterford. If a team is going into transition then people must allow time for it to come good. Sticking with the same old tried and tested is sometimes not the answer.

Quote from: AFS on June 08, 2010, 02:09:54 PM

Quote from: BNAB10 on June 08, 2010, 12:55:48 PM

Quote from: INDIANA on June 07, 2010, 01:47:28 PM

Quote from: mackers on June 07, 2010, 12:23:24 PM

Quote from: INDIANA on June 07, 2010, 11:29:53 AM

Quote from: mackers on June 07, 2010, 11:26:08 AM
The next move will be to ban the shoulder charge altogether and I'm going to start watching real contact sports like hockey or something!!

Lot of knee jerk reactions going on here, in the cold light of day Monaghan are a more experienced outfit than this Armagh team. They are hell bent on getting an Ulster title that they feel they deserve and were by far the hungrier team. We are clearly a team in transition with a new management in place and we're playing without one of our two class forwards. We got promoted out of a very poor Division and the management need one if not two more years to develop us into a team challenging for honours. Divsion 1 football next spring will bring us on hopefully.

None of our much maligned HF line (the main source of our problems yesterday along with our CHB)  lined out in their positions on a regular basis for us before which especially in the case of Nippy Swift is an indictment of the previous regime. I would persist with Swift and AK in their positions and use Mackin as a sub. Our midfield was made up of two lads of about 23 who came up against a formidable and experienced pairing in Lennon and Clerkin. Vernon and Toner will be an outstanding pairing in a few years, ably assisted by Lavery (aged 23/24) who is a player that I didn't rate but he's much better than I gave him credit for. 

If we can get a handy draw in the qualifiers and get Ronan Clarke fit then we will achieve our aim for the year IMO which is to get to an AIQF. New teams and new management trying to change a style of play will lead to huge swings in performance like we have experienced this year. Hopefully the players will continue to work hard and keep their hunger and the management continue to learn from their mistakes.

23 is a fully grown senior inter county footballer. Bit old to be playing the youth card.

Rubbish..........at 23/24 McGeeney, McGrane et al were getting their arses whipped by Derry, they learnt from that, hopefully our lads will learn from this also. Players aren't in their prime until 26-28. The other thrust of my argument is that the lads of that age are only getting to play in their positions now (with the exception of Kieran Toner who has played a few years in MF at this stage).

Lavery looks like the only one with the required tools. Armagh are at a crossroads One wonders will that little wizard off their minors at corner forward last year be given a shot at it. Or simply be deemed too small. The latter I'd suspect. A sea change is required in Armagh football in my view. Talent has to supercede size. Currently in Armagh the latter is king IMO.

Have to agree with that indiana, it seems that POR places a lot of emphasis on size in his team, rather than a genuine scoring threat and a bit of flair (exception jamie clarke). It seems he is content to play midfielfders as half forwards, and IMO the team will never improve without 5/6 forwards who have the potential to get you at least 2-3 points per game. You only have to look at teams like Cork and Kerry; they do not rely on 1 forward to get all their scores. Their whole forward line can take a score and they are miles ahead of Armagh at the minute. The good thing is that the squad is young and hopefully they will produce their best in the next couple of years

I'm not so sure that it's as simple as that. Outside of the wing forward positions, the players selected are there because they're the best the county has to offer, not because of their size. The half forward line has been a long term problem for us, and it seems in the absence of any stand out candidates to fill the 10 and 12 jerseys that O'Rourke decided to throw in a couple of big men. Even at that, Swift's footballing ability probably justifies his selection. It's easy to throw out broad, unspecific criticisms, but when looked at in detail, the number of positions where size has ousted footballing ability is very minimal.

Haven't said it on a whim. But i'm fairly well connected in Armagh. I said Grimley wasn't going there a long time before anyone else did and I also knew Dyas was coming home from Oz a long time before anyone else here knew about it- something I was ridiculed for saying here by some Armagh posters. And from speaking to people up there from the original post above it's a concern among them.
The Armagh  2002 version was a team of big men could play. Which is probably ideal. Rare enough you ever get that though. Your underage teams recently have been quite good but small by your standards. So it will be interesting to see over the coming years what way it pans out. Whether the fact they are small will be held against them.
I though Swift, Duffy and Clarke looked like real finds of the newer players. A lof of your others in my view looked slow and over-sized without naming names. in fairness Mc Gurn has said he feels a lot of them are too big and he's down sizing a lot of them. that will probably take 12 months. Mc donnell is back to his best since he stopped doing weights.
It was ironic on Saturday evening watching a small louth half forward with little or no muscle mass barrelling one of the minature bodybuilders from Kildare out of the way. Obviously Kildare don't do much in the way of core strength- I thought the same of Armagh on Sunday. Smaller monaghan lads were better at carrying it through contact. Found that surprising myself.

Could someone either post up the armagh county panel or direct me to where i can see it, please ?

Quote from: winsamsoon on June 08, 2010, 02:31:53 PM

POR in particular had the perfect opportunity this year, coming in as an outsider he had the perfect chance to see the club players in action. In all honesty what does POR know about Armagh club football? This is not a criticism but a mere fact. His background staff are mostly based outside of the county for the last 5 years so what would they know of emerging talents. Instead they go on the status quo, media hype and hersay from a lot of sources. IMO opinion the only way forward is to select a team with an open book. Not maintain the big man attitude but rather try to move football back to the basics and play players with natural ability . These players do exist in the county.

Same limitations could be levelled at Liam Bradley and his backroom team but he seems to have managed a fresh approach. So POR's choices are perhaps more down to his own judgement rather than the (potentially limiting) factor of his unfamiliarity with the Armagh club scene?

In fact, i would probably turn it on its head and say that POR's unfamiliarity (to begin with, at least) should have been an advantage! Fresh eye, no club baggage, no misguided loyalty to previous underage charges, etc.

I dont understand this criticism of Armagh players.
James Lavery when he came on caught 3 or 4 clean balls,and whilst he messed up a couple of times,if he had started,things may have been different.
People complaining Charlie Vernon is too heavy????
The man is about 15 stone at probably 10-12% bodyfat.
He is also mobile,Armagh just have to get a settled position for him.
I thought Barry Dufy was very good,he never gave up and his running and ball carrying caused Monaghan problems.
Brendan Donaghy and Andy Mallon coped aswell as anyone could against Freeman and McManus,forwards of that caliber are unplayable if your midfield is beaten the way Armagh's was on Sunday.
I still think Armagh will be a top 3 team within the next few years with the talent and physique they have available to them.