From the Indo
PAINTINGS depicting the 1916 Easter Rising, which were removed from the General Post Office (GPO) in Dublin five years ago, will not be reinstalled in a decision that has dismayed historians.
The 10 paintings, which show important scenes from the Rising, were removed in 2005 when An Post carried out renovations on the building for the Rising's 90th anniversary in 2006.
But An Post has now decided the GPO is "not suitable" for the paintings and is now looking for "a new home" for them.
Historian Pat Liddy, who gives walking tours in Dublin, said he believes the paintings, which give a good account of the Rising to tourists, should be reinstalled in the historic building where it took place.
"They were very revolutionary and romantic, and they got the message across," he said.
"They were widely spread around the walls of the GPO, but now there's very little, except photos and a copy of the Proclamation, to say this is the place where it happened.
"I think it makes sense if An Post were even to only put some of them up. The pictures give a sense of what went on in the office."
The paintings, by Norman Teeling depict scenes such as the signing of the Proclamation of the Irish Republic in Liberty Hall, Padraig Pearse reading the proclamation and James Connolly when he was wounded.
"One of them shows Connolly on a stretcher while the building is coming down in flames," Mr Liddy said.
But even though An Post bought the paintings, it is now looking for somewhere else to install them. A spokesperson for An Post said: "While the possibility of improving the lighting and captioning of the paintings was investigated, this wasn't pursued as the space was not at all suitable for the purpose of displaying art pieces.
"The paintings remain in secure storage pending their display in a more suitable space."
Councillor Larry O'Toole will table a motion in next month's city council meeting calling for a letter to be written to An Post requesting the paintings be returned to display. "I'm calling on An Post to have them put back in the main lobby -- they owe it to the people of Dublin," he said.
If they were intending on hiding the paintings away somewhere I would say they were ashamed but they intend displaying them elsewhere. No biggie
The paintings are part of our cultual heritage and belong in the GPO. I can't believe they are getting away with this. I suppose we'll find Cuchulainn in a skip one of these days as well.
Hang on, who painted these? When were they painted?
If they truly are part of our cultural heritage we should at least know this much before we get our knickers in a twist, in a collective sense of course
Storm in a teacup
I was in college in Dublin when Princess Diana died and I remember well someone leaving some sort sacred heart thing in the window of the GPO in remembrance of her which I personally didn't think much of - funny that was never taken down. An post are experts at own goals so I expect we will next hear they have lost the paintings!
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on February 05, 2010, 06:15:26 PM
If they were intending on hiding the paintings away somewhere I would say they were ashamed but they intend displaying them elsewhere. No biggie
Bollocks, should we just forget the fight our forefathers had to free part of this land, who gives a fcuk who painted the pictures, what relevance has that got anyway!
We should be proud of our heritage!
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on February 07, 2010, 02:43:38 AM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on February 05, 2010, 06:15:26 PM
If they were intending on hiding the paintings away somewhere I would say they were ashamed but they intend displaying them elsewhere. No biggie
Bollocks, should we just forget the fight our forefathers had to free part of this land, who gives a fcuk who painted the pictures, what relevance has that got anyway!
We should be proud of our heritage!
They're only paintings. Relax. No-one has suggested demolishing the
GPO. Yet.
"...a more suitable place". Did you ever hear such shite. Where on God's green earth would be more appropriate than the GPO? As for nobody suggesting demolishing the GPO just yet, don't jinx it! 16 Moore St is facing a struggle. And don't forget how on the very week of the Rising's 90th Anniversary, the free state govn allowed priceless artefacts of the Rising, including the tricolour flag flown over the GPO and letters by various executed leaders to be auctioned to off to wealthy private collectors.
To some this may come as a surprise but not i. This is yet another attempt at the free state trying to become more European at the expense of our culture. If these painting depict what the paper article claims then of course they should be at the GPO. This should be a focal point for all within our society and would send out a message to visitors that we are proud of our history. Auschwitz was an absolute atrocity but it is kept as a brutal reminder of the past of the country and era. The paintings illustrate a particular era in Irish history and should be highly valued and placed at the appropriate site. In our society some people need constant reminders of our history they won't read books or acknowledge it for themselves so things like this are crucial.
Bin them and forget about them, you never get anywhere by looking backwards, look what that sort of thing has done to NI.
Quote from: delboy on February 08, 2010, 03:14:18 PM
Bin them and forget about them, you never get anywhere by looking backwards, look what that sort of thing has done to NI.
And next he'll be telling by denigning our own history it's a sign of " our maturity as a nation " ::)
Leaving aside the particular issue with these ould paintings, do you not think, in a broad sense, delboy has a point? Are we not over-obsessed with history in this country? Is the balance not a smidgin awry when we weigh our efforts to secure our future against our reverence for the past?
Everybody in this country has a position and an irreversible attitude on every event in history since 1169. I might be wrong, but I think other nations take a more dispassionate view of their history, once a century (or in many cases, much less) has elapsed. The French, for instance, can discuss their revolution without falling out with each other over whether the king should or shouldn't have been guillotined. Two of us would be swinging fists at each other over Diarmaid McMurrough. That is if you could find a single person in the country who would have a dissenting view on the said Diarmaid.
Discuss.
To me hardy History and culture go hand in hand. A dillution of one has almost certainly a knock on affect to the other . So asking me to let things like be a distant past as time lapses on is not for me i am afraid. I think we owe it to the men and women of the past events to keep things like the Easter Rising the Famine and many more incidents in Irish history alive. Ancestors who died in such atrocities should never be forgotten. This doesn't mean that we can't move on. I am from Northern ireland and i am very willing and open minded and want very much so to move forward with a society inclusive of all, but i don't have to sacrifice any of my historical insights to move forward. I may not always agree or have a different take on certain issues but i believe this is healthy in a society. For some folk their history is all they have and is at the crux of their everyday life it would be wrong to put our past on the shelf as it has shaped our modernity. History also serves an educational value and provides a person with a sense of belonging and responsibility as well as being a general interest. I don't think this does any harm in an ever increasing dissillusioned society ie where some of our youth couldn't tell you what the Easter Rising was. IMO without our past and the people that are keeping it together society would be worse than it currently is, so it also has a role to play for our future generations.
I'd suggest permanently removing An Post from the GPO instead.
Del Boy/Hardy I would suggest that far from too many people in Ireland being obsessed with history, i think too many people are rather forced to keep our history as something of value and pride and not something for the revisionists and "mature" citizens from hiding. These paintings are not a giant monument or anything, not in anybodys faces. They are small but significant to our past whether "mature" forward thinkers like it or not.
Willie Frazer apparently said they had to go
Quote from: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on February 08, 2010, 06:24:16 PM
I'd suggest permanently removing An Post from the GPO instead.
I'd agree
winsamsoon, I have asked the questions;
who was the artist?
When were they painted?
If you can enlighten me that would be great as I would love to know exactly what cultural value these paintings
actually have and not what some have arbitrarily decided that they have.
If no-one can answer those questions I am going to assume that the paintings aren't of any cultural value really
Ardmhaca who cares who painted them. It's who's in them and what they represent that matters. I don't know who designed the Garden of Remembrance but I don't think it should be dug up.
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 08, 2010, 07:12:44 PM
Ardmhaca who cares who painted them. It's who's in them and what they represent that matters. I don't know who designed the Garden of Remembrance but I don't think it should be dug up.
So, they could have been painted by anyone. That doesn't lend any credibility to the argument that they have any cultural value. If they had been painted by a decent Irish artist/even an historic figure/someone connected to the men and women of 1916 then I may have been persuaded otherwise
As it stands, imo, they are worth precisely nothing in true cultural terms until their background is explained, then I may change my mind
Ok so we should tear down all monuments to historical figures in Ireland if you don't know who sculpted them? Garden of Remembrance should be dug up too then yeah?
Listen nally, this is a discussion forum, I am not just going to meekly accept that these paintings have any intrinsic cultural value on your say-so or anyone else's until I am persuaded otherwise.
So to that end, do you have any answers to the questions I have posed a few times in this thread?
Two issues here:
1. An Post are saying that the lighting, space, etc, isn't suitable for displaying art work. That might be a fair point No point hanging things up in a dark corner where you can hardly see them.
2. Are they worth displaying? If tourists are coming through the doors in their droves, do we want them looking at pieces of art that would put us to shame? If they're bad works of art, they shouldn't be hanging on public display just because they happen to depict some patriotic scenes. Do you want people thinking we're a bunch of feckin' philistines?
Well as you say these are your yardsticks for whether they should be in public view. What makes it a suitable yardstick for these paintings but not for monuments\statues\Garden of Remembrance?
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on February 08, 2010, 07:37:21 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 08, 2010, 07:12:44 PM
Ardmhaca who cares who painted them. It's who's in them and what they represent that matters. I don't know who designed the Garden of Remembrance but I don't think it should be dug up.
So, they could have been painted by anyone. That doesn't lend any credibility to the argument that they have any cultural value. If they had been painted by a decent Irish artist/even an historic figure/someone connected to the men and women of 1916 then I may have been persuaded otherwise
As it stands, imo, they are worth precisely nothing in true cultural terms until their background is explained, then I may change my mind
Pretty much my feelings on the matter too. The paintings were done by an Irish artist in the 1990s as far as I can tell. I could understand some hue and cry if they were of the era in question or painted by Connolly himself. But they're not so in their own right they are if no historical value in my opinion. The GPO lends history to them.
I understand the argument about who was the painter of these drawings and his significance and all that but the thing that is annoying me is An Post going on about finding a more suitable location for them?!
The paintings were on display there before and now that location is suitable anymore. I would love to know what happen to make the GPO unsuitable for paintings depicting the GPO during Easter Rising? And then what are they going to have in place of them then so?
Quote from: winsamsoon on February 08, 2010, 06:15:28 PM
To me hardy History and culture go hand in hand. A dillution of one has almost certainly a knock on affect to the other . So asking me to let things like be a distant past as time lapses on is not for me i am afraid. I think we owe it to the men and women of the past events to keep things like the Easter Rising the Famine and many more incidents in Irish history alive. Ancestors who died in such atrocities should never be forgotten. This doesn't mean that we can't move on. I am from Northern ireland and i am very willing and open minded and want very much so to move forward with a society inclusive of all, but i don't have to sacrifice any of my historical insights to move forward. I may not always agree or have a different take on certain issues but i believe this is healthy in a society. For some folk their history is all they have and is at the crux of their everyday life it would be wrong to put our past on the shelf as it has shaped our modernity. History also serves an educational value and provides a person with a sense of belonging and responsibility as well as being a general interest. I don't think this does any harm in an ever increasing dissillusioned society ie where some of our youth couldn't tell you what the Easter Rising was. IMO without our past and the people that are keeping it together society would be worse than it currently is, so it also has a role to play for our future generations.
I think our obsession with history has created a lot more problems for society than it has solved, im intersted in what way do you think society would be worse without this constant reminders of past times and what role do you think it will play for future generations.
Dwelling on history will only cause fractures and schisms one 'cultures' easter rising is another 'cultures' seige of derry or battle of the boyne.
The history is in the past for a reason, leave it their.
The only way that history has caused problems today is because Ireland has not fully emerged from them and gained full Independence. A country and it's people are defined and moulded by it's past. It should hence be proudly proclaimed. It makes us who we are. It makes us unique. No denials or revisionism can ever change that.
Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it
I don't know if this has already been mentioned but An Post are leaving the GPO, its being turned into a new theatre if I'm not mistaken.
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on February 08, 2010, 06:58:08 PM
Quote from: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on February 08, 2010, 06:24:16 PM
I'd suggest permanently removing An Post from the GPO instead.
I'd agree
contradicting, I have asked the questions;
who was the artist?
When were they painted?
If you can enlighten me that would be great as I would love to know exactly what cultural value these paintings actually have and not what some have arbitrarily decided that they have.
If no-one can answer those questions I am going to assume that the paintings aren't of any cultural value really
Ard my last post was in response to a post from hardy asking opinions on history and it's importance the paintings issues wasn't mentioned, But in answer to your questions i don't know who painted them but i would tend to agree that this doesn't really matter as it is the fact that they were there and now suddenly then are being removed totally.
secondly you are 100% entitled to your opinion and i wouldn't expect you to roll over
Delboy it is not the historical fact that has caused problems for our society it is the slant that certain individuals have put on certain events. In many cases they have went out of their way to cause offence. I think future generations should be made aware of their past and their ancestors past. If we claim to be nationalists then this history must be at the centre of our ethos otherwise we are contradicted ourselves. Our past is not detrimental to our future, sure there will always be people that put their own spin on things but the facts are clear in most circumstances. Even if they are not it still allows us to sit and talk about issues that doesn't involve joysticks and internet gaming.
There are countries in the world that would love the history we have. Ireland is a country steeped in history and if you were to ask someone in another country they could tell you that we are famous for our culture. This is a worldwide thing and this has put a tiny country on the world map. But we have some posters on here saying that our history is insignificant and not important.
Our history has moulded us into what we are today, it has influenced our political ideology (some may claim is a bad thing) but i think everyone should have the right t be subjected to our history and then they can make up their own mind.
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 08, 2010, 09:15:22 PM
The only way that history has caused problems today is because Ireland has not fully emerged from them and gained full Independence. A country and it's people are defined and moulded by it's past. It should hence be proudly proclaimed. It makes us who we are. It makes us unique. No denials or revisionism can ever change that.
Really?
Really Really?
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on February 08, 2010, 06:58:08 PM
Quote from: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on February 08, 2010, 06:24:16 PM
winsamsoon, I have asked the questions;
who was the artist?
When were they painted?
If you can enlighten me that would be great as I would love to know exactly what cultural value these paintings actually have and not what some have arbitrarily decided that they have.
If no-one can answer those questions I am going to assume that the paintings aren't of any cultural value really
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on February 08, 2010, 08:13:44 PM
Listen nally, this is a discussion forum, I am not just going to meekly accept that these paintings have any intrinsic cultural value on your say-so or anyone else's until I am persuaded otherwise.
So to that end, do you have any answers to the questions I have posed a few times in this thread?
:D ;D
(http://www.dembot.net/images/facepalm/double_trek_facepalm.jpg)
The paintings are by Norman Teeling apparently.
Googling is not a difficult skill to master.
http://www.normanteeling.com/rising.php (http://www.normanteeling.com/rising.php)
From the above site.
Norman Teeling is a painter with a romantic impressionist style and a passion for painting En Plein Air. Born in Dublin, Ireland in 1944, it was there where his tutors included Maurice MacGonigal PPRHA (1900–1979), Carey Clarke PPRHA, and John Kelly RHA (1932–2006), and where he earned a Degree in Art and his teaching credential from the National College of Art and Design. After twelve years of teaching Art at several Dublin colleges, Norman Teeling took a hiatus from the profession to pursue his creative drive in the Animation industry.
Norman Teeling worked as a background artist on two feature films with Don Bluth Studios. Experience also came as a background artist for Fred Wolf Films, producer of many successful TV series including Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles known as Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles in the USA Zorro and The Fantastic Voyages of Sinbad the Sailor. Teeling traveled to Norway in 1996 to develop his first animated feature film, Gurin with the Foxtail. Work was also produced for several animation studios in Germany and Italy. Additional work has appeared on RTÉ, the Irish state TV broadcaster, and his creation Fearless Film was produced for Children's Television, Dublin.
The Artist, experimenting in varied mediums, created a cartoon strip that was published over a six-year period by The Irish Press (defunct) and his illustrations also appeared in Sunday World. Norman Teeling has also completed set designs for Gate Theatre and Tivoli Theatre in Dublin. Further, he has published two books of cartoons Irish Brew and Sloth. His latest literary opus is Norman Teeling Paints The Irish Landscape In Oils, an En Plein Air teaching and reference work, with a preface by Sunny Apinchapong-Yang.
Norman Teeling's monumental ten painting suite, The 1916 Rising, now hangs on permanent display in the General Post Office, Dublin. Acquired by An Post in 1998, the oils depict events surrounding the Easter Rising, perhaps the most significant societal event in Ireland since the rebellion of 1798.
Seen recently...
"His human subject, usually a solitary female, graceful and elegant, seems also fragile and vulnerable. Often sensually depicted in sunlit rooms, they have about them an air of expectation and yearning and they seem devoid of any smugness. There is a vibrancy of colour and a confident energy in the brushwork."
Norman Teeling holds exhibitions in many of Ireland's top art galleries. The Artist's work is regularly on display at The Green Gallery at St. Stephen's Green Centre and Gallery 4 in Sandymount, Dublin, and The Warren Gallery in Skibbereen, Co. Cork, Killarney Art Gallery in Killarney, Co. Kerry, Lilly Fine Art & Print Gallery in Slane, Co. Meath, The Barbara Stanley Gallery in Putney, London and elsewhere.
Norman Teeling's interest outside of art is music. An accomplished guitarist having performed both "semi-" and "professionally" through five decades, he was active in the Dublin music scene in the 1960's playing with The Difference among others, and is credited with composing both sides of the Jim Power & Taurus single from 1978. Norman Teeling's first solo single was released on the Phaeton label in 1981, the live B-side of which features Eric Bell, formerly of Thin Lizzy. Norman Teeling's two solo LPs for the label are both blues rock.
These culture vultures should have been able to google and post the link
Never heard of this artist - I stand by what I have said all along, so what his paintings are no longer going to be in the GPO, they won't be missed
I don't expect you to roll over. But I would once again ask for an answer as to my previous question. If these paintings should not hang because the artist isn't well known, should we then also dig up the Garden of Remembrance as it's designer is not well known? Or should famine memorials be torn down if the sculptor isn't world recognised? I personally don't care, if they keep our history alive, who designed/sculpted/painted appropriate tributes in appropriate places. Like in the GPO for example.
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on February 09, 2010, 09:22:43 AM
These culture vultures should have been able to google and post the link
Never heard of this artist - I stand by what I have said all along, so what his paintings are no longer going to be in the GPO, they won't be missed
Glad to get your opinion on this, wasn't quite sure where you stood.
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 09, 2010, 10:27:48 AM
I don't expect you to roll over. But I would once again ask for an answer as to my previous question. If these paintings should not hang because the artist isn't well known, should we then also dig up the Garden of Remembrance as it's designer is not well known? Or should famine memorials be torn down if the sculptor isn't world recognised? I personally don't care, if they keep our history alive, who designed/sculpted/painted appropriate tributes in appropriate places. Like in the GPO for example.
For whats its worth the Garden of Rememberance was designed by Daithi Hanley a renowed architect who worked for Dublin City Council.
Most of the items you have mentioned would have been commisioned to do their works so its not quite the same as someone painting a subject and then selling to a company.
Renown is a bit much. I'd be fairly sure most people would not be familiar with the name. There's always google though eh. Whether they were commissioned or not is completely irrelevant in my opinion. Paintings depicting one of our most significant historical events simply deserve to be hung in the building this event centred around. Only in the free state could this end up being a subject of debate. I only wish people would stop being apologists for those who would try to hide/deny our history.
Ps Ludermore, as I say not that it matters in my opinion, but the ten paintings were also commissioned by An Post.
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 09, 2010, 11:20:37 AM
Renown is a bit much. I'd be fairly sure most people would not be familiar with the name. There's always google though eh. Whether they were commissioned or not is completely irrelevant in my opinion. Paintings depicting one of our most significant historical events simply deserve to be hung in the building this event centred around. Only in the free state could this end up being a subject of debate. I only wish people would stop being apologists for those who would try to hide/deny our history.
All relative i assume, he would be well known in Architecturlal circles. Im sure there have been 1000's of paintings done about 1916, should they all be hanging in the GPO?
Quote from: red hander on February 05, 2010, 05:34:35 PM
From the Indo
PAINTINGS depicting the 1916 Easter Rising, which were removed from the General Post Office (GPO) in Dublin five years ago, will not be reinstalled in a decision that has dismayed historians.
The 10 paintings, which show important scenes from the Rising, were removed in 2005 when An Post carried out renovations on the building for the Rising's 90th anniversary in 2006.
But An Post has now decided the GPO is "not suitable" for the paintings and is now looking for "a new home" for them.
Historian Pat Liddy, who gives walking tours in Dublin, said he believes the paintings, which give a good account of the Rising to tourists, should be reinstalled in the historic building where it took place.
"They were very revolutionary and romantic, and they got the message across," he said.
"They were widely spread around the walls of the GPO, but now there's very little, except photos and a copy of the Proclamation, to say this is the place where it happened.
"I think it makes sense if An Post were even to only put some of them up. The pictures give a sense of what went on in the office."
The paintings, by Norman Teeling depict scenes such as the signing of the Proclamation of the Irish Republic in Liberty Hall, Padraig Pearse reading the proclamation and James Connolly when he was wounded.
"One of them shows Connolly on a stretcher while the building is coming down in flames," Mr Liddy said.
But even though An Post bought the paintings, it is now looking for somewhere else to install them. A spokesperson for An Post said: "While the possibility of improving the lighting and captioning of the paintings was investigated, this wasn't pursued as the space was not at all suitable for the purpose of displaying art pieces.
"The paintings remain in secure storage pending their display in a more suitable space."
Councillor Larry O'Toole will table a motion in next month's city council meeting calling for a letter to be written to An Post requesting the paintings be returned to display. "I'm calling on An Post to have them put back in the main lobby -- they owe it to the people of Dublin," he said.
In all fairness, we in the north are being asked to move on all the time. Should the south not do the same and forget about the failed rising.
I fail to see how this moving on term involves people forgetting their history. In the north the term Moving on is thrown about but it really means getting on with people. I can certainly get on with all types of people from all religions without having to forget my history. So that argument doesn't hold any water with me.
I know this thread started about paintings being hung in the GPO but it is really getting a bit silly and turning into a name calling feast. I was coming at the argument from the perspective that history (our history) in general is becoming dilluted and replaced by people wondering what the next game for the playstation 3 or xbox will be . Rather than know the history of their existance they are more concerned with these meaningless and superficial things. Thus making moral values and cutural values that have existed for years fade into the past.
The artist of these painting are not important it is the mere symbolism and message being sent out. The message i am getiing seems to be saying that this is an even that happened almost 100 years ago lets forget it and get on. To me this is wrong and leads me to question why.
Are they trying to appeal to foreigners in the ever increasing multi cultural state? if so are we happy to sit back and accept this at our historical expense? I am all for Multi cultural societies but the civil rights and liberties of the established nation must still be at the heart of the country. It is not possible to please all ( i wouldn't expect to go to Iran and see them dismantling posters of a famous prophet ) because this is at the heart of the Iranian ethos . Events like the Easter Rising are at the centre of our and should be promoted with every opportunity. (maybe slightly of the point but still relevant IMO)
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on February 08, 2010, 09:26:25 PM
Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it
A platitude, both cultures know their history and both seem to keep making the same mistakes. I'd rather use sound judgement than sound bites.
Ludermor, do I think it should hang every painting of the Rising? No. Why would I? Where did I even suggest it? Do I believe that these paintings of the Rising should remain
In the building in whith it took place? Absolutely. It boggles the mind that anyone would have a problem with this. Have a harp, this "move on" crap winds me. We are moving on, we're in a successful Peace Process but our history defines who we are. It would be nothing short of a moral crime to hide it and deny it.
P.s Haveaharp, your post reeks of partitionism talking about us lot in the north and you lot in the south. You almost suggest that the Rising is only part of the south's history. Need I remind you that Ireland was not divided in 1916 and volunteers from north and south fought? Should we forget about them because it "failed"? Would you be so quick to say that if your great grandfather was involved?
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 09, 2010, 07:34:53 PM
Ludermor, do I think it should hang every painting of the Rising? No. Why would I? Where did I even suggest it? Do I believe that these paintings of the Rising should remain
In the building in whith it took place? Absolutely. It boggles the mind that anyone would have a problem with this. Have a harp, this "move on" crap winds me. We are moving on, we're in a successful Peace Process but our history defines who we are. It would be nothing short of a moral crime to hide it and deny it.
So what make these paintings so special that they should hang there? To be honest i dont have a particular view one way or the other but my mind boggles as to why you are getting so wound up by these paintings not going back up.
I don't care what paintings they are I simply feel that the significance of the building should be properly recognised. Do you not??? I regard their removal as just another sign of people in this country having fcuk all pride in their own history. As mentioned earlier, the free state govn allowed a huge number of priceless artifacts including the tricolour that flew above the GPO during the Rising to be sold to wealthy private collectors on the very week of the 90th Anniversary. Where will it stop?
But you do seem to care. They were only there a few years, did having those paintings there make the building more significant?
I have no problem with the building getting whatever recognision comes its way and i do appreciate its importance in our history but i dont need a few pictures to show that.
Where is this free state you keep talking about ;)
Nally to be honest i don't think they are going to accept what you are saying because thy clearly keep going back to paintings. You are making the point that i am saying that it is yet another step towards fazing out our history in terms of this so called new world and thus moving on. Load of shite IMO
Oh and the free state would refer to the 26 counties that are free as opposed to the 6 that aren't
Quote from: delboy on February 09, 2010, 02:48:25 PM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on February 08, 2010, 09:26:25 PM
Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it
A platitude, both cultures know their history and both seem to keep making the same mistakes. I'd rather use sound judgement than sound bites.
Best sound bite so far!
Exactly winsam. And i know the building already has it's significance but these paintings were a tangible recognition of this significance by An Post. It's just absurd that the nation's most famous building is being stripped of items which depict the very reason for it's fame. It reeks of another action of people in denial/shame of our own history. Are you then suggesting we tear down any monuments to our past as we don't really need them?
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 09, 2010, 07:49:02 PM
Renown is a bit much. I'd be fairly sure most people would not be familiar with the name. There's always google though eh. Whether they were commissioned or not is completely irrelevant in my opinion. Paintings depicting one of our most significant historical events simply deserve to be hung in the building this event centred around. Only in the free state could this end up being a subject of debate. I only wish people would stop being apologists for those who would try to hide/deny our history.
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 09, 2010, 07:49:02 PM
P.s Haveaharp, your post reeks of partitionism talking about us lot in the north and you lot in the south. You almost suggest that the Rising is only part of the south's history. Need I remind you that Ireland was not divided in 1916 and volunteers from north and south fought? Should we forget about them because it "failed"? Would you be so quick to say that if your great grandfather was involved?
While I would lean in agreement with You Nally stand re keeping the heritage of the Rising in the GPO (I know nothing of the paintings artistic value/worth) but surely when Northern people go on about the Free State they are being equally offensive, the name of the State made up by the 26 counties is Ireland or Eire according to Bunreacht Na hEireann.
I know but when I set foot over the border I've been called a nordie/brit which is stomach churning. Im a republican, and even though I fully support the Agreement, i could never bring myself to refer to 26 counties as being "Ireland". To me, Ireland has 32 counties, 6 of which I refer to as the north of Ireland/the six counties, and the 26 counties, which I will continue to refer to as the free state/26 counties. As someone from Tyrone with an Irish passport, I see Ireland as being a 32 county place.
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 09, 2010, 10:20:45 PM
I know but when I set foot over the border I've been called a nordie/brit which is stomach churning. Im a republican, and even though I fully support the Agreement, i could never bring myself to refer to 26 counties as being "Ireland". To me, Ireland has 32 counties, 6 of which I refer to as the north of Ireland/the six counties, and the 26 counties, which I will continue to refer to as the free state/26 counties. As someone from Tyrone with an Irish passport, I see Ireland as being a 32 county place.
Ya Ireland has 32 counties, but the Independent country/state called Ireland has 26. If You can't call it Ireland whats wrong with calling it Eire or the 26 Counties?
I really hate when the 26 counties is referred to as the Republic of Ireland as there is NO SUCH PLACE, thats the name of a soccer team not a country.
Quote from: hardstation on February 09, 2010, 10:26:51 PM
Éire has 32 counties too.
The State not the Island, so Éire 26 counties too.
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 09, 2010, 10:20:45 PM
I know but when I set foot over the border I've been called a nordie/brit which is stomach churning. Im a republican, and even though I fully support the Agreement, i could never bring myself to refer to 26 counties as being "Ireland". To me, Ireland has 32 counties, 6 of which I refer to as the north of Ireland/the six counties, and the 26 counties, which I will continue to refer to as the free state/26 counties. As someone from Tyrone with an Irish passport, I see Ireland as being a 32 county place.
So you can say "north of ireland/the six counties and the free state/26 counties" and thats ok - but when someone from the south says "you lot in the north and us lot in the south" - it isnt acceptable and reeks of partitionism?
Well as i say i often do refer to it also as the 26 counties. Unlike you however, i would never say something like 'Eire has 26 counties'. In my opinion as a republican, this statement forgets those Irish citizens north of the border who regard themselves as Irish and from Ireland/Eire. When I hear 'Ireland' or 'Eire', I think 32 counties. Anyway this is getting off topic.
I fail to see how anyone can take offence at me calling the 26 counties a Free State, It doesn't make any assumption on any person and certainly doesn't imply that they are of different nationalities. It recognises partition but it has to because whether we like it or not Ireland was divided so it is merely a term that refers to this division. What should we call it. If i say Ireland this is confusing as Ireland in it;s truest form is 32 counties so to differientiate i say the free State. Actually wrote it on a cv once for a job lol ;D
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 09, 2010, 10:41:09 PM
Well as i say i often do refer to it also as the 26 counties. Unlike you however, i would never say something like 'Eire has 26 counties'. In my opinion as a republican, this statement forgets those Irish citizens north of the border who regard themselves as Irish and from Ireland/Eire. When I hear 'Ireland' or 'Eire', I think 32 counties. Anyway this is getting off topic.
When I was living in Australia I had an Irish passport, did that make Victoria a county in the Irish state.
Puckoon if you understood my point of the last two or so posts you would see that they are totally anti partitionist
Quote from: hardstation on February 09, 2010, 10:38:39 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 09, 2010, 10:34:10 PM
Quote from: hardstation on February 09, 2010, 10:26:51 PM
Éire has 32 counties too.
The State not the Island, so Éire 26 counties too.
So, it's the island but a part of the island also?
That'll not work to be honest.
Well if this town is not big enought, maybe the ones with the International legal title on the name should have it, i.e. the ones with a written constitution of their own, the ones recognised by the European Union, European Court of Human Rights, the United Nations and the International Red Cross.
I think the Island and the State can share the name but if not!
No but if you were born and lived you life in Victoria with no Irish blood at all in you you would not be entitled to an Irish passport. Unlike in Tyrone. Hence am I to take it that you regard Tyrone as being as much a part of Ireland as Victoria by that logic?
Quote from: hardstation on February 09, 2010, 10:47:57 PM
It'll get a bit confusing.
"I'm heading to Éire on my holidays"
"Portrush again, aye?"
lol going to start claiming i am more Irish than you next ;D ;D
Quote from: winsamsoon on February 09, 2010, 10:42:02 PM
I fail to see how anyone can take offence at me calling the 26 counties a Free State, It doesn't make any assumption on any person and certainly doesn't imply that they are of different nationalities. It recognises partition but it has to because whether we like it or not Ireland was divided so it is merely a term that refers to this division. What should we call it. If i say Ireland this is confusing as Ireland in it;s truest form is 32 counties so to differientiate i say the free State. Actually wrote it on a cv once for a job lol ;D
The Irish State.
I can tell you if You wrote Free State on any CV of anyone I know or any company I know, you wouldn't even get a second look at your C.V.
I had a mate from Derry back in college, a big Nationalist, once addressed a letter to him (post was still coming to our house even though he had moved out) addressed the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, the other lads where trying to get me to write Londonderry instead of Derry, bit too much for me to stomach, the other lads thought it would be funny coz he would hit the roof when he say it.
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 09, 2010, 10:46:57 PM
No but if you were born and lived you life in Victoria with no Irish blood at all in you you would not be entitled to an Irish passport. Unlike in Tyrone. Hence am I to take it that you regard Tyrone as being as much a part of Ireland as Victoria by that logic?
If it was I'd be moving to Tyrone to get an Australian passport ;D
A Jesus I'm going to stop now, can be an awful p***k when I start :-X
I forgot to mention that the job was the quarter master of the IRA :D ;D ffs lighten up
Quote from: Myles Na G. on February 09, 2010, 09:43:53 PM
Quote from: delboy on February 09, 2010, 02:48:25 PM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on February 08, 2010, 09:26:25 PM
Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it
A platitude, both cultures know their history and both seem to keep making the same mistakes. I'd rather use sound judgement than sound bites.
Best sound bite so far!
At least it came out of my own brain box :)
Mayo ur not lookin to emigrate are you? Things that bad in the free state?;-) peace!
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 09, 2010, 11:26:14 PM
Mayo ur not lookin to emigrate are you? Things that bad in the free state?;-) peace!
Emigrate, to Tyrone! ;)
Haha not enough Gaelic culture about Mayo? Or wud it be in search of a decent football time?;-) I shouldn't say anything. Ye lot tend to get the better of Tyrone in recent years in the league!
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 09, 2010, 11:49:38 PM
Haha not enough Gaelic culture about Mayo? Or wud it be in search of a decent football time?;-) I shouldn't say anything. Ye lot tend to get the better of Tyrone in recent years in the league!
Plenty of Gaelic culture in Mayo, more than most counties. We have plenty of decent football.
Don't worry it's only a bit of slagging!
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 09, 2010, 07:49:02 PM
P.s Haveaharp, your post reeks of partitionism talking about us lot in the north and you lot in the south. You almost suggest that the Rising is only part of the south's history. Need I remind you that Ireland was not divided in 1916 and volunteers from north and south fought? Should we forget about them because it "failed"? Would you be so quick to say that if your great grandfather was involved?
Partitionism ? As enshrined by the dropping of the constitutional claim to the north. ::)
I am fully aware that the country was not divided in 1916 - didnt take them long though.
Well if you are aware it was not partitioned then, why assume that issues of Rising memorials are an issue for the south? As for Partitionism, I personally think it is not an issue of what the constitution says. Where it should be continually challenged is in people's attitudes. This is getting away from the discussion of the thread.
Quote from: delboy on February 09, 2010, 02:48:25 PM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on February 08, 2010, 09:26:25 PM
Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it
A platitude, both cultures know their history and both seem to keep making the same mistakes. I'd rather use sound judgement than sound bites.
Read Breige Gadds piece in the IN yesterday, some in unionist circles would need to look back at their recent history and hope not to make the same mistakes as their grand parents.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 09, 2010, 10:42:55 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on February 09, 2010, 10:41:09 PM
Well as i say i often do refer to it also as the 26 counties. Unlike you however, i would never say something like 'Eire has 26 counties'. In my opinion as a republican, this statement forgets those Irish citizens north of the border who regard themselves as Irish and from Ireland/Eire. When I hear 'Ireland' or 'Eire', I think 32 counties. Anyway this is getting off topic.
When I was living in Australia I had an Irish passport, did that make Victoria a county in the Irish state.
How clever. Touché