listening to the radio this morning with irish aid workers saying how nothing with be getting thro or working in Haiti without the US (both military and civilians) i was reminded of john o shea of goal asking people NOT to donate to the hurricane Katrina humanitarian fund in the new orleans area. i remember thinking 'what a bollix' i wonder would he say that now? america like the rest of the world has the good the bad and the ugly but i think more than other countries its gets bad press and little praise for the good it does. .
What did O'Shea say about Katrina and what were his reasons? Yer man does seem to be a right ersehole from the little I've heard about him.
basically that people should not donate, that the US should pay for it themselves as they could afford it. missed the whole point of a helping hand imo.
My missus had dealings with him as she helped organise a golf classic with funds going to Goal a good while ago.
She wouldn't disagree with Rav there
I suppose his reasoning was that if the US can send help to Haiti (or whereever there is a crisis or natural disaster) they can send help to New Orleans.
Quote from: magickingdom on January 25, 2010, 07:39:47 PM
listening to the radio this morning with irish aid workers saying how nothing with be getting thro or working in Haiti without the US (both military and civilians) i was reminded of john o shea of goal asking people NOT to donate to the hurricane Katrina humanitarian fund in the new orleans area. i remember thinking 'what a bollix' i wonder would he say that now? america like the rest of the world has the good the bad and the ugly but i think more than other countries its gets bad press and little praise for the good it does. .
To be fair I would expect nothing less from the military. That's were the American expertise is. They are also close to Haiti and can move large numbers of machinery (which they have in excess) and personnel there much easier than from Europe. For example Cuba have excess in doctors and were able to send 500 qualified doctors which is every bit as good as the US military.
I wouldn't be surprised if Countries like Venezuela offer fuel or whatever else they might have that could help. Ireland would have sent priests in the past.
It well behoves the USA to send aid to Haiti as they are at least partially responsible for the dire state of that country through their interference in it's economic and political life over the last century.
The debate on whether or not John O'Shea is an asshole, has long ago been put to bed.
Quote from: Keyser soze on January 25, 2010, 08:54:59 PM
It well behoves the USA to send aid to Haiti as they are at least partially responsible for the dire state of that country through their interference in it's economic and political life over the last century.
The debate on whether or not John O'Shea is an asshole, has long ago been put to bed.
I think France are a more guilty party considering they bankrupted them.
Quote from: Minder on January 25, 2010, 09:07:13 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on January 25, 2010, 08:54:59 PM
It well behoves the USA to send aid to Haiti as they are at least partially responsible for the dire state of that country through their interference in it's economic and political life over the last century.
The debate on whether or not John O'Shea is an asshole, has long ago been put to bed.
I think France are a more guilty party considering they bankrupted them.
The US played their part in Haiti's failure as a state as well, make no mistake about it Minder
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on January 25, 2010, 09:13:09 PM
Quote from: Minder on January 25, 2010, 09:07:13 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on January 25, 2010, 08:54:59 PM
It well behoves the USA to send aid to Haiti as they are at least partially responsible for the dire state of that country through their interference in it's economic and political life over the last century.
The debate on whether or not John O'Shea is an asshole, has long ago been put to bed.
I think France are a more guilty party considering they bankrupted them.
The US played their part in Haiti's failure as a state as well, make no mistake about it Minder
I am not disagreeing, I just think France were more culpable.
Quote from: Minder on January 25, 2010, 09:34:16 PM
I am not disagreeing, I just think France were more culpable.
It's form for France too. There are a few Countries (including this one) picking up the pieces after them in Africa too.
Haiti was the first Black nation to gain/wrest their independence in 1804.
Quote from: Denn Forever on January 25, 2010, 10:05:13 PM
Haiti was the first Black nation to gain/wrest their independence in 1804.
Yes, I don't get what you are trying to say though... or is that it? ;)
Zap, you hit on something there, look at Africa as a continent, with all its natural resources it
should be one of the richest but no... western states invaded, butchered, enslaved, colonised and finally left Africa after draining her of lots of her natural resources
When they left too they only left in name and lots of land-owners in Africa today owe their land to the colour of their ancestors skin and their skin.
Quote from: Denn Forever on January 25, 2010, 10:05:13 PM
Haiti was the first Black nation to gain/wrest their independence in 1804.
I just think that its cool.
After that they were shafted by themselves (Papa and Baby Doc) and the US (Papa and Baby Doc).
Hopefully it can be rebuilt.
Quote from: Zapatista on January 25, 2010, 09:43:11 PM
Quote from: Minder on January 25, 2010, 09:34:16 PM
I am not disagreeing, I just think France were more culpable.
It's form for France too. There are a few Countries (including this one) picking up the pieces after them in Africa too.
Aye, America is an awful country altogether, I am sure that the big men on here that bash it at every opportunity would never visit it or if they did I am sure they would sit in a bar and hold court, letting the big, bad yanks know exactly what they think of their country/government.
The hypocrisy on this board is unbelievable at times.
Quote from: stew on January 25, 2010, 10:43:16 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on January 25, 2010, 09:43:11 PM
Quote from: Minder on January 25, 2010, 09:34:16 PM
I am not disagreeing, I just think France were more culpable.
It's form for France too. There are a few Countries (including this one) picking up the pieces after them in Africa too.
Aye, America is an awful country altogether, I am sure that the big men on here that bash it at every opportunity would never visit it or if they did I am sure they would sit in a bar and hold court, letting the big, bad yanks know exactly what they think of their country/government.
The hypocrisy on this board is unbelievable at times.
:D
What's wrong with criticising America?
What's wrong with praising it for the good it does?
TO, I guess nothing, it would actually involve the US doing something good before they could be praised for it though
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on January 25, 2010, 10:45:40 PM
Quote from: stew on January 25, 2010, 10:43:16 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on January 25, 2010, 09:43:11 PM
Quote from: Minder on January 25, 2010, 09:34:16 PM
I am not disagreeing, I just think France were more culpable.
It's form for France too. There are a few Countries (including this one) picking up the pieces after them in Africa too.
Aye, America is an awful country altogether, I am sure that the big men on here that bash it at every opportunity would never visit it or if they did I am sure they would sit in a bar and hold court, letting the big, bad yanks know exactly what they think of their country/government.
The hypocrisy on this board is unbelievable at times.
:D
What's wrong with criticising America?
Nothing, it's when you get people who never give America credit for anything that gets on my goat, I find America to be a very giving nation, also one that has made very bad decisions foreign policy wise. When it comes to the yanks some people just pile on and never say anything constructive.
I know plenty of servicemen from the city I live in, they and their families are the salt of the earth, Bush has a lot to answer for however with everything that is going on the the Arab world few criticise them and of course the baddie in that region is Israel, America's ally.
Israel have done a lot wrong as well, a lot of countries have, China for example has trampled all over peoples lives, killing children to control population and has had many human rights violations, they dont get a lot of bad publicity on here, why?
Quote from: stew on January 25, 2010, 10:58:58 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on January 25, 2010, 10:45:40 PM
Quote from: stew on January 25, 2010, 10:43:16 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on January 25, 2010, 09:43:11 PM
Quote from: Minder on January 25, 2010, 09:34:16 PM
I am not disagreeing, I just think France were more culpable.
It's form for France too. There are a few Countries (including this one) picking up the pieces after them in Africa too.
Aye, America is an awful country altogether, I am sure that the big men on here that bash it at every opportunity would never visit it or if they did I am sure they would sit in a bar and hold court, letting the big, bad yanks know exactly what they think of their country/government.
The hypocrisy on this board is unbelievable at times.
:D
What's wrong with criticising America?
Nothing, it's when you get people who never give America credit for anything that gets on my goat, I find America to be a very giving nation, also one that has made very bad decisions foreign policy wise. When it comes to the yanks some people just pile on and never say anything constructive.
I know plenty of servicemen from the city I live in, they and their families are the salt of the earth, Bush has a lot to answer for however with everything that is going on the the Arab world few criticise them and of course the baddie in that region is Israel, America's ally.
Israel have done a lot wrong as well, a lot of countries have, China for example has trampled all over peoples lives, killing children to control population and has had many human rights violations, they dont get a lot of bad publicity on here, why?
They do a great feed after the pub.
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on January 25, 2010, 10:58:47 PM
TO, I guess nothing, it would actually involve the US doing something good before they could be praised for it though
See this is the kind of idiotic comment I am talking about. The yanks are a very generous people and Haiti is a prime example of that. Enough said.
Quote from: stew on January 25, 2010, 11:04:47 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on January 25, 2010, 10:58:47 PM
TO, I guess nothing, it would actually involve the US doing something good before they could be praised for it though
See this is the kind of idiotic comment I am talking about. The yanks are a very generous people and Haiti is a prime example of that. Enough said.
Very touchy stew. I am entitled to my opinion as you are yours, you seem to think America can do no wrong and is above criticism, welcome to the real world.
I will assess what the US have actually done in Haiti after they have left, thanks.
Can you give any good examples of the good work the US have done in Haiti?
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on January 25, 2010, 11:09:55 PM
Quote from: stew on January 25, 2010, 11:04:47 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on January 25, 2010, 10:58:47 PM
TO, I guess nothing, it would actually involve the US doing something good before they could be praised for it though
See this is the kind of idiotic comment I am talking about. The yanks are a very generous people and Haiti is a prime example of that. Enough said.
Very touchy stew. I am entitled to my opinion as you are yours, you seem to think America can do no wrong and is above criticism, welcome to the real world.
I will assess what the US have actually done in Haiti after they have left, thanks.
You are entitled to your point - yet you are sitting on your hole here - what are you doing on a humanitarian basis for Haiti? Have you given? Have you helped?
There are people from all nations (America included) working their asses off to help those in need. There are those who cannot physically be there, who are giving money that they may not be able to afford to help the relief effort in Haiti.
What you are doing is using Haiti as a stick to beat the USA with, and for that - you should be ashamed.
Quote from: Puckoon on January 25, 2010, 11:15:28 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on January 25, 2010, 11:09:55 PM
Quote from: stew on January 25, 2010, 11:04:47 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on January 25, 2010, 10:58:47 PM
TO, I guess nothing, it would actually involve the US doing something good before they could be praised for it though
See this is the kind of idiotic comment I am talking about. The yanks are a very generous people and Haiti is a prime example of that. Enough said.
Very touchy stew. I am entitled to my opinion as you are yours, you seem to think America can do no wrong and is above criticism, welcome to the real world.
I will assess what the US have actually done in Haiti after they have left, thanks.
You are entitled to your point - yet you are sitting on your hole here - what are you doing on a humanitarian basis for Haiti? Have you given? Have you helped?
There are people from all nations (America included) working their asses off to help those in need. There are those who cannot physically be there, who are giving money that they may not be able to afford to help the relief effort in Haiti.
What you are doing is using Haiti as a stick to beat the USA with, and for that - you should be ashamed.
Catch yourself on puck
In what regard?
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on January 25, 2010, 11:09:55 PM
Quote from: stew on January 25, 2010, 11:04:47 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on January 25, 2010, 10:58:47 PM
TO, I guess nothing, it would actually involve the US doing something good before they could be praised for it though
See this is the kind of idiotic comment I am talking about. The yanks are a very generous people and Haiti is a prime example of that. Enough said.
Very touchy stew. I am entitled to my opinion as you are yours, you seem to think America can do no wrong and is above criticism, welcome to the real world.
I will assess what the US have actually done in Haiti after they have left, thanks.
Eh are you having a bad reading day? show me were I state America can do no wrong and is above criticism??? you cant. Welcome to the real world? I am not the one that is deluded you are, you cant even read that I have criticised America.
By the way, I am not very touchy, I just think that there are people on this site that blame the yanks for everything, give them credit for nothing yet love to go to vegas and new york and dont have the balls to spout the shite about America in America.
As for the other clampett who asked me what exactly has America done, it has sent aid, lots of aid, personnel and has promised a lot more aid to help the haitians recover from this disaster.
This is an internet discussion board, we are discussing the US, not my input or yours. I am not questioning what you are doing, you have no right to question what I am doing
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on January 25, 2010, 11:24:07 PM
This is an internet discussion board, we are discussing the US, not my input or yours. I am not questioning what you are doing, you have no right to question what I am doing
You are making a blanket statement that the US is doing nothing of good in Haiti, right?
For nearly 2 weeks now the US have done nothing but put troops on the ground. Occupation all over again.
16,000 at the last count, while doctors perform amputations without even painkillers.
Millions of people have been starving, and left homeless, and the US send in their killing machines.
They have tied up the airport, while thousands of tonnes of aid doesn't get delivered.
A French plane carrying a mobile hospital gets refused for 3 DAYS to land, so Uncle Sam can get more troops on the ground.
This is New Orleans all over again. Starve the people for days, then they loot for food, and then Uncle Sam tells us they can't deliver food because of "Security Concerns".
Even John O' Shea buys into their propaganda, and refuses to deliver Irish Aid. All he wants is cash, and plenty of it. Shame on him big time for his stance on this one. This is him on Al Jazeera
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4X0-3FQqN3c
Cuba, Venezuela, Bolivia, France, Turkey, etc, etc, have all been on the ground working from the start and we don't hear a word about their work.
The US should hang their heads in shame for their role in Haiti right now, and for their continued illegal interference over the years there.
Quote from: Puckoon on January 25, 2010, 11:30:11 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on January 25, 2010, 11:24:07 PM
This is an internet discussion board, we are discussing the US, not my input or yours. I am not questioning what you are doing, you have no right to question what I am doing
You are making a blanket statement that the US is doing nothing of good in Haiti, right?
I wasn't actually
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on January 25, 2010, 10:58:47 PM
TO, I guess nothing, it would actually involve the US doing something good before they could be praised for it though
?
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on January 25, 2010, 11:09:55 PM
Quote from: stew on January 25, 2010, 11:04:47 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on January 25, 2010, 10:58:47 PM
TO, I guess nothing, it would actually involve the US doing something good before they could be praised for it though
See this is the kind of idiotic comment I am talking about. The yanks are a very generous people and Haiti is a prime example of that. Enough said.
Very touchy stew. I am entitled to my opinion as you are yours, you seem to think America can do no wrong and is above criticism, welcome to the real world.
I will assess what the US have actually done in Haiti after they have left, thanks.
^^
Quote from: give her dixie on January 25, 2010, 11:30:43 PM
For nearly 2 weeks now the US have done nothing but put troops on the ground. Occupation all over again.
16,000 at the last count, while doctors perform amputations without even painkillers.
Millions of people have been starving, and left homeless, and the US send in their killing machines.
They have tied up the airport, while thousands of tonnes of aid doesn't get delivered.
A French plane carrying a mobile hospital gets refused for 3 DAYS to land, so Uncle Sam can get more troops on the ground.
This is New Orleans all over again. Starve the people for days, then they loot for food, and then Uncle Sam tells us they can't deliver food because of "Security Concerns".
Even John O' Shea buys into their propaganda, and refuses to deliver Irish Aid. All he wants is cash, and plenty of it. Shame on him big time for his stance on this one. This is him on Al Jazeera
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4X0-3FQqN3c
Cuba, Venezuela, Bolivia, France, Turkey, etc, etc, have all been on the ground working from the start and we don't hear a word about their work.
The US should hang their heads in shame for their role in Haiti right now, and for their continued illegal interference over the years there.
There really is no help for people like you, you are too far gone and too much hate in your heart.
Well I didn't come on here to bash everything the USA has done, I merely commented on the thread title and pointed out that maybe the USA has some sort of moral imperative to intervene in Haiti in a more positive way than it has done in the past.
I did neglect to comment that they are doing some good there now. I would be more impressed if they hadn't mounted a military operation before their humanitarian effort.
If you want to start a thread on US foreign policy please do, but i'd advise you to bunker down and get a hard hat on!!
"There really is no help for people like you, you are too far gone and too much hate in your heart".
Stew, it's people like me who have a heart can say what I said.
If you had of seen the same handy work of the US as me, then you wouldn't be so quick to put me down.
Again, I will repeat myself. "The US need to hang their head in shame for their role in Haiti right now."
And don't start me on their other achievements.
Stew, I think when people slag off America they are referring to their successive governments and not the country as a whole. You say the yanks are a very generous people and you're probably right. I'm sure the ordinary man in the street over there is as good as anywhere else, but time and time again their governments cover themselves in shame, it's just you rarely get to hear these stories in the mainstream media. They deserve all the stick they get if you ask me
We'll hardly hold our breaths for a positive slant on the US in even the slightest manner
from a man that frequents Al Jazeera for his news.
We'll hardly hold our breaths for a positive slant on the US in even the slightest manner
from a man that frequents Al Jazeera for his news.
You talking about John O' Shea?
If it was O'Shea that posted the above link to a report from Al Jazeera.....then yes!
We all need to get our news from fox (fair and balanced)!
And our history from Pat Robertson.
Quote from: fearbrags on January 26, 2010, 04:59:27 AM
We all need to get our news from fox (fair and balanced)!
And our history from Pat Robertson.
Na... simply lifting a news paper or reading a book would be a fairly good start for a young lad like yourself!
Having said that, Fox news' ratings are very impressive of late..could that possibly speak for itself?
Quote from: stew on January 25, 2010, 10:43:16 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on January 25, 2010, 09:43:11 PM
Quote from: Minder on January 25, 2010, 09:34:16 PM
I am not disagreeing, I just think France were more culpable.
It's form for France too. There are a few Countries (including this one) picking up the pieces after them in Africa too.
Aye, America is an awful country altogether, I am sure that the big men on here that bash it at every opportunity would never visit it or if they did I am sure they would sit in a bar and hold court, letting the big, bad yanks know exactly what they think of their country/government.
The hypocrisy on this board is unbelievable at times.
My post was about France ???
I think you might have a bit of a siege mentality when it comes to criticism of the US.
Until law and order is established in Haiti it will be difficult to distribute aid packages. The only people capable of providing this service is the US military. Those UN clowns haven,t a clue. Haiti gangs are recieving food packs and selling them on the black market.
Just send in the A-Team to sort it out.
Quote from: JohnDenver on January 26, 2010, 10:28:26 AM
Just send in the A-Team to sort it out.
The US government don't like them.
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 26, 2010, 05:20:09 AM
Quote from: fearbrags on January 26, 2010, 04:59:27 AM
We all need to get our news from fox (fair and balanced)!
And our history from Pat Robertson.
Na... simply lifting a news paper or reading a book would be a fairly good start for a young lad like yourself!
Having said that, Fox news' ratings are very impressive of late..could that possibly speak for itself?
The red top newspapers have the market share in the UK but that hardly makes them the bastion of integrity and honesty!
Quote from: give her dixie on January 25, 2010, 11:30:43 PM
For nearly 2 weeks now the US have done nothing but put troops on the ground. Occupation all over again.
16,000 at the last count, while doctors perform amputations without even painkillers.
Millions of people have been starving, and left homeless, and the US send in their killing machines.
They have tied up the airport, while thousands of tonnes of aid doesn't get delivered.
A French plane carrying a mobile hospital gets refused for 3 DAYS to land, so Uncle Sam can get more troops on the ground.
This is New Orleans all over again. Starve the people for days, then they loot for food, and then Uncle Sam tells us they can't deliver food because of "Security Concerns".
Even John O' Shea buys into their propaganda, and refuses to deliver Irish Aid. All he wants is cash, and plenty of it. Shame on him big time for his stance on this one. This is him on Al Jazeera
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4X0-3FQqN3c
Cuba, Venezuela, Bolivia, France, Turkey, etc, etc, have all been on the ground working from the start and we don't hear a word about their work.
The US should hang their heads in shame for their role in Haiti right now, and for their continued illegal interference over the years there.
A tirade of anti-Americanism from a man who calls himself Give her Dixie. Where is Dixie, exactly?
No talking to some people.
Jeez, never realised there were so many neo-cons on the board!! What this thread has shown is that there are 2 views of what the US is doing, and has done in the past, in Haiti.
Anyone with any rudimentary knowledge of the history of American involvement in Haiti, including the kidnap and exile of their democratically elected president, would question their motives in sending such a large military force to undertake an aid mission. I cannot recall any other recent natural disaster where the humanitarian effort was preceded by the arrival of an invasion sized military detachment from a neighbouring country. However i am happy to applaud their efforts to assist the stricken people of Haiti with food, medicine etc etc. If they put their mind to it no other country can get things done as quickly and effeciently as them. Nonetheless that I would be concerned that their mind might wander. Their previous conduct in other areas of the Carribbean and Latin and South America is indefensible in many instances and makes me suspicious of their motives in arriving in such large numbers.
The other world view is that if you watch Al Jazeera [which to the best of my knowledge is a very well respected news channel] it is an imperative that you will automatically be anti-American. If you have the word Dixie in your name it automatically must refer to the Mason Dixon line. Having said name as your username automatically precludes you from expressing a negative opinion about the USA.
With political insight like this it is no wonder that idiots of the calibre of G W Bush and Sarah Palin can garner such levels of support from the US public.
If you want to defend what the USA has done in Haiti in relation to their aid effort, do so. Don't post irrelevant claptrap which only serves to make you look like a fool.
QuoteAnyone with any rudimentary knowledge of the history of American involvement in Haiti, including the kidnap and exile of their democratically elected president, would question their motives in sending such a large military force to undertake an aid mission. I cannot recall any other recent natural disaster where the humanitarian effort was preceded by the arrival of an invasion sized military detachment from a neighbouring country. However i am happy to applaud their efforts to assist the stricken people of Haiti with food, medicine etc etc. If they put their mind to it no other country can get things done as quickly and effeciently as them. Nonetheless that I would be concerned that their mind might wander. Their previous conduct in other areas of the Carribbean and Latin and South America is indefensible in many instances and makes me suspicious of their motives in arriving in such large numbers.
Maybe you missed Ha Ha Derry's post on page 3... either that or it simply doesn't suit the agenda here and that's to thrash America at every opportunity ::)
QuoteI cannot recall any other recent natural disaster where the humanitarian effort was preceded by the arrival of an invasion sized military detachment from a neighbouring country.
Can you recall any recent disasters that occurred in such an impoverished, unorganized violent and inaccessible place
QuoteThe other world view is that if you watch Al Jazeera [which to the best of my knowledge is a very well respected news channel] it is an imperative that you will automatically be anti-American
And we're being defensive?.....where did I say Al Jazeera weren't a reputable network, you'd simply be hard pressed
to find any positive slant on the US in any way shape or form
QuoteIf you want to defend what the USA has done in Haiti in relation to their aid effort, do so. Don't post irrelevant claptrap which only serves to make you look like a fool.
Anyone that holds such animosity and hate regardless of the subject are who look and sound like fools here!
QuoteWith political insight like this it is no wonder that idiots of the calibre of G W Bush and Sarah Palin can garner such levels of support from the US public.
Surely you know by now that the statement above makes you sound like an ignorant idiot!
Quote from: Zapatista on January 25, 2010, 09:43:11 PM
Quote from: Minder on January 25, 2010, 09:34:16 PM
I am not disagreeing, I just think France were more culpable.
It's form for France too. There are a few Countries (including this one) picking up the pieces after them in Africa too.
They didn't help themselves either, soon after Independence they divided into two separate states a Republic in the South and a dictate Kingdom in the North. In more recent years they have badly deforested their country, if you look at satellite images, you can clearly see the border, as the Dominican Republic is green and lush and Haiti is brown and barren, its contrast can literally (yes I meant that word) be seen along the border. After Independence ethnic cleansing took place killing off most of the whites, expelling the rest (who went to New Orleans). Yes I know there was an Indigenous people (mostly extinct or mixed in with the white/black populous), but the whites where there before the blacks and the original white population and most of the white immigrants had nothing to do with the slave trade.
The BBC
"Meanwhile, Haiti's most serious underlying social problem, the huge wealth gap between the impoverished Creole-speaking black majority and the French-speaking minority, 1% of whom own nearly half the country's wealth, remains unaddressed"
I don't know much about the breakdown in politics but does France have any influence over the 1% mentioned? Did they leave the place with that type of social problem?
heroes describes the concerned parties
Maybe you missed Ha Ha Derry's post on page 3... either that or it simply doesn't suit the agenda here and that's to thrash America at every opportunity ::)
QuoteI cannot recall any other recent natural disaster where the humanitarian effort was preceded by the arrival of an invasion sized military detachment from a neighbouring country.
Can you recall any recent disasters that occurred in such an impoverished, unorganized violent and inaccessible place
Well I suppose Banda Ache, North Pakistan and eh ................ :DNew Orleans. I don't have an agenda.
QuoteThe other world view is that if you watch Al Jazeera [which to the best of my knowledge is a very well respected news channel] it is an imperative that you will automatically be anti-American
And we're being defensive?.....where did I say Al Jazeera weren't a reputable network, you'd simply be hard pressed
to find any positive slant on the US in any way shape or form
You sneeringly dismissed a poster's point because he provided a link to an interview with Al Jazeera.
QuoteIf you want to defend what the USA has done in Haiti in relation to their aid effort, do so. Don't post irrelevant claptrap which only serves to make you look like a fool.
Anyone that holds such animosity and hate regardless of the subject are who look and sound like fools here!
I don't have any animosity or hate and nowhere in the bit you have quoted is there any intimation of either, so again I'll contend that it is you who is the fool. I asked for your opinion on the thread title i.e. the USA's effort in Haiti but of course you're so busy falling over yourself to tackle the man that you couldn't pick the ball up when it bounced in front of you, a**h*le.
QuoteWith political insight like this it is no wonder that idiots of the calibre of G W Bush and Sarah Palin can garner such levels of support from the US public.
Surely you know by now that the statement above makes you sound like an ignorant idiot!
[/quote]
Well actually no I don't. Bush and Palin are idiots and it is a sad reflection of a, thankfully, minority of Americans that these clowns can garner substantial support. From your comments on here, which display a complete lack of awareness of how the US is perceived abroad, I presumed, and I beg your pardon if I presumed incorrectly, that you would be a supporter of these 2 who display a similar lack of knowledge and awareness.
So Bush and Palin are idiots? ok. Aside from the fact that Bush is n longer in office and Palin never was in Office in the White House as VP mind you not president, who would you have voted for if you had a vote in the States?
Quote from: give her dixie on January 26, 2010, 12:18:08 AM
"There really is no help for people like you, you are too far gone and too much hate in your heart".
Stew, it's people like me who have a heart can say what I said.
If you had of seen the same handy work of the US as me, then you wouldn't be so quick to put me down.
Again, I will repeat myself. "The US need to hang their head in shame for their role in Haiti right now."
And don't start me on their other achievements.
care to explain? you obviously hate the place and can see no good in anything the US does, that say a lot about you. i truly believe there ain't no pleasing some people
QuoteWell I suppose Banda Ache, North Pakistan and eh ................ :DNew Orleans. I don't have an agenda.
I apologize, I was actually unaware that New Orleans was impoverished, unorganized, violent and ........inaccessible ::)
And you still didn't read Derry's post did ye?
QuoteI don't have an agenda.
Really, :D what else would best describe then the vitriol and stinging insults for all things America..both good and bad?
QuoteYou sneeringly dismissed a poster's point because he provided a link to an interview with Al Jazeera.
It's common knowledge around here that you're not the sharpest but if you go back and read it very s l o w l y this time
you'd realize I wasn't dismissing his
point, merely pointing out that..... ah fcuk it just read it again ::)
QuoteI asked for your opinion on the thread title i.e. the USA's effort in Hait
Please do quote where exactly you asked me anything regarding the thread title ??? no, you were merely falling over yourself
to make a negative opinionated judgment call about how and what the US should be doing...
Quotebut of course you're so busy falling over yourself to tackle the man that you couldn't pick the ball up when it bounced in front of you, a**h*le.
::) Ah the hard-man keyboard warrior tactics...sorta tells it's own story right there :'(
Quote from: magickingdom on January 26, 2010, 07:06:23 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on January 26, 2010, 12:18:08 AM
"There really is no help for people like you, you are too far gone and too much hate in your heart".
Stew, it's people like me who have a heart can say what I said.
If you had of seen the same handy work of the US as me, then you wouldn't be so quick to put me down.
Again, I will repeat myself. "The US need to hang their head in shame for their role in Haiti right now."
And don't start me on their other achievements.
care to explain? you obviously hate the place and can see no good in anything the US does, that say a lot about you. i truly believe some there ain't no pleasing some people
Let me guess, you are an operative for the taliban. ::)
Na Stew.... I think you could switch out the Taliban for Hamas :-\
It's amazing that in my reply to the thread title, I get attacked for my user name, for supporting the Taliban, Hamas, for watching the "wrong" News station, for disliking the US, etc, etc. Have these same people read my post? Have they any argument with what I said? Why the personal attacks?
Let me point out this much, I have nothing against the US population, just the corrupt Government that sends troops into Haiti before life saving aid. I attack them for sending $7million a day into Israel in order to ethnically cleanse Palestinians, including the slaughter of innocent children. I witnessed their handy work in Gaza where US built F16's dropped bombs 1 km from the Sports Club I was in, killing people in the process. I seen the construction of the 30 metre underground wall they are building along the Egyptian border to cut off the supply of food into Gaza. A wall they couldn't build in New Orleans. I was attacked by Egyptian forces who are paid for by the US Govt. to the tune of nearly $2billion per year. I seen their work in Chile, Bolivia, Argentina, etc, etc, where they propped up one ruthless dictator after another. Plus, last March, I surveyed the damage that their bombs and bullets did in pulverising Gaza, and killing 1,400 people in 3 weeks.
These are just some of the examples of what I have personally witnessed, and that is before I elaborate on Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc, etc.
So, if by critising US foreign policy for their total disregard for human rights and humanity happens to piss off a few people on this board, well, I couldn't care less.
Are you saying you don't support or sympathize with Hamas?
This illustrates perfectly the point being made by a few of us here that you
dare to castrate the US over human rights violations while turning a blind eye
on China, Iran or Venezuela to name but a few >:(
The US is far from perfect no doubt and I do believe that message has been put out there
many many times on here but in the eyes of haters they can do Fcuk
all right ...ever ::) shameful really!
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 26, 2010, 10:36:17 PM
Are you saying you don't support or sympathize with Hamas?
This illustrates perfectly the point being made by a few of us here that you
dare to castrate the US over human rights violations while turning a blind eye
on China, Iran or Venezuela to name but a few >:(
The US is far from perfect no doubt and I do believe that message has been put out there
many many times on here but in the eyes of haters they can do Fcuk
all right ...ever ::) shameful really!
Ouch!
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 26, 2010, 10:36:17 PM
Are you saying you don't support or sympathize with Hamas?
This illustrates perfectly the point being made by a few of us here that you
dare to castrate the US over human rights violations while turning a blind eye
on China, Iran or Venezuela to name but a few >:(
The US is far from perfect no doubt and I do believe that message has been put out there
many many times on here but in the eyes of haters they can do Fcuk
all right ...ever ::) shameful really!
I don't particularly want to get involved here (mainly because I've been in at least 20 states and the average American that I've met is as decent, conscientious and generous as any citizens anywhere) but the only reason I won't criticise this particular action is because I will give Obama a chance.
Quote from: give her dixie on January 26, 2010, 09:24:26 PM
Let me point out this much, I have nothing against the US population, just the corrupt Government that sends troops into Haiti before life saving aid.
John, are you aware of what was happening on the ground before meaningful aid could be effectively distributed?
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 26, 2010, 10:36:17 PM
Are you saying you don't support or sympathize with Hamas?
This illustrates perfectly the point being made by a few of us here that you
dare to castrate the US over human rights violations while turning a blind eye
on China, Iran or Venezuela to name but a few >:(
The US is far from perfect no doubt and I do believe that message has been put out there
many many times on here but in the eyes of haters they can do Fcuk
all right ...ever ::) shameful really!
The thread is about the US role in Haiti. If there was a seperate thread on Hamas, China, Iran, or Venezuela then I would comment on that thread.
I tell you what, if you are so proud of the good work the US are doing in Haiti and in other places in the world, go on and fill us in. Let us know what they are doing good at the moment for humanity in the world.
Quote from: ONeill on January 26, 2010, 11:29:51 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on January 26, 2010, 09:24:26 PM
Let me point out this much, I have nothing against the US population, just the corrupt Government that sends troops into Haiti before life saving aid.
John, are you aware of what was happening on the ground before meaningful aid could be effectively distributed?
Yes. I have a few friends who are out here working at present. They have kept me well informed as to what is going on, and who is doing what in Haiti.
Plus, all you have to do is to watch the TV, and sure practically the only planes landing in Haiti in the 1st week were troops.
Aid was piled up and no one delivering it.
Did anyone watch ITV news last night where a UN truck arrived to deliver food to a stricken region. The UN officials handed everyone out forms to fill in. Most couldn't write. Then, the UN closed the back doors and drove off, leaving hungry people even hungrier.
It is a well documented fact that the unrest was hyped up by the US and the mainstream media.
Quote from: give her dixie on January 26, 2010, 09:24:26 PM
It's amazing that in my reply to the thread title, I get attacked for my user name, for supporting the Taliban, Hamas, for watching the "wrong" News station, for disliking the US, etc, etc. Have these same people read my post? Have they any argument with what I said? Why the personal attacks?
Let me point out this much, I have nothing against the US population, just the corrupt Government that sends troops into Haiti before life saving aid. I attack them for sending $7million a day into Israel in order to ethnically cleanse Palestinians, including the slaughter of innocent children. I witnessed their handy work in Gaza where US built F16's dropped bombs 1 km from the Sports Club I was in, killing people in the process. I seen the construction of the 30 metre underground wall they are building along the Egyptian border to cut off the supply of food into Gaza. A wall they couldn't build in New Orleans. I was attacked by Egyptian forces who are paid for by the US Govt. to the tune of nearly $2billion per year. I seen their work in Chile, Bolivia, Argentina, etc, etc, where they propped up one ruthless dictator after another. Plus, last March, I surveyed the damage that their bombs and bullets did in pulverising Gaza, and killing 1,400 people in 3 weeks.
These are just some of the examples of what I have personally witnessed, and that is before I elaborate on Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc, etc.
So, if by critising US foreign policy for their total disregard for human rights and humanity happens to piss off a few people on this board, well, I couldn't care less.
I was going to point out earlier that you have a very well eductaed opinion on this topic but decided to wait for your response. I'm gald I did now :)
THe common defence for any criticism of the USA is 'you just hate everything the US do, they can do no right in your book'. Which, of course, is bull. I'm sure the posters here don't hate the cast friends or the makers of look who's talking or the many other millions in the US that seem pretty good. Bertie Ahern used the same tactics when he said 'I didn't make the millions people are claiming I made'. No one claimed that but it's a good tactic to defend something you haven't been accused off, it takes the attention off the topic.
QuoteThe thread is about the US role in Haiti. If there was a seperate thread on Hamas, China, Iran, or Venezuela then I would comment on that thread.
Ah I see...that's convenient ::) ... and I see you're learning from others around here answering direct questions with questions :-X
Quote
I tell you what, if you are so proud of the good work the US are doing in Haiti and in other places in the world, go on and fill us in. Let us know what they are doing good at the moment for humanity in the world.
Eh... I honestly don't know where to start even if i did have the time, I do know that they're usually first in there after a disaster no matter what part of the world offering aid, funding and support in any way possible, is there any other country that gives as much aid to struggling countries?
How much has your neighboring wealthy Arab countries donated to Haiti by the way or China for that matter?
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 27, 2010, 12:11:10 AM
QuoteThe thread is about the US role in Haiti. If there was a seperate thread on Hamas, China, Iran, or Venezuela then I would comment on that thread.
Ah I see...that's convenient ::) ... and I see you're learning from others around here answering direct questions with questions :-X
Quote
I tell you what, if you are so proud of the good work the US are doing in Haiti and in other places in the world, go on and fill us in. Let us know what they are doing good at the moment for humanity in the world.
Eh... I honestly don't know where to start even if i did have the time, I do know that they're usually first in there after a disaster no matter what part of the world offering aid, funding and support in any way possible, is there any other country that gives as much aid to struggling countries?
How much has your neighboring wealthy Arab countries donated to Haiti by the way or China for that matter?
Gaza aye??
Quote from: give her dixie on January 26, 2010, 09:24:26 PM
It's amazing that in my reply to the thread title, I get attacked for my user name, for supporting the Taliban, Hamas, for watching the "wrong" News station, for disliking the US, etc, etc. Have these same people read my post? Have they any argument with what I said? Why the personal attacks?
Let me point out this much, I have nothing against the US population, just the corrupt Government that sends troops into Haiti before life saving aid. I attack them for sending $7million a day into Israel in order to ethnically cleanse Palestinians, including the slaughter of innocent children. I witnessed their handy work in Gaza where US built F16's dropped bombs 1 km from the Sports Club I was in, killing people in the process. I seen the construction of the 30 metre underground wall they are building along the Egyptian border to cut off the supply of food into Gaza. A wall they couldn't build in New Orleans. I was attacked by Egyptian forces who are paid for by the US Govt. to the tune of nearly $2billion per year. I seen their work in Chile, Bolivia, Argentina, etc, etc, where they propped up one ruthless dictator after another. Plus, last March, I surveyed the damage that their bombs and bullets did in pulverising Gaza, and killing 1,400 people in 3 weeks.
These are just some of the examples of what I have personally witnessed, and that is before I elaborate on Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc, etc.
So, if by critising US foreign policy for their total disregard for human rights and humanity happens to piss off a few people on this board, well, I couldn't care less.
I don't like to be seen taking sides in an argument I know nothing about but there is a post worthy of a standing ovation.
:D You just admitted to knowing nothing about it but yet know it's worthy of a standing O :o
ye see posts like this only cement my point here..."they'd swallow
a fridge back there" as the saying goes!
I was actually confused reading it TBH...are we still talking about the US or have we moved on to Israel ???
See John... the young lads here might not notice the clever change up there but it's not lost here ;)
TO, constant attempts at belittlement and ridicule of others do little for your arguments. You might find more allies around here if your posts weren't always drenched with smarm and condescension.
Quote from: AFS on January 27, 2010, 01:42:22 AM
TO, constant attempts at belittlement and ridicule of others do little for your arguments. You might find more allies around here if your posts weren't always drenched with smarm and condescension.
Cheers AFS, I'll take that on board however I'm really not all that insecure that I need to feel accepted
on an internet discussion board :)
What article John?
TO, have a read through this article and you will find that the US are far from being the most generous when it comes to donating aid.
Have a read at some of the conditions they put on countries recieving aid.
You will find it all interesting reading
http://www.globalissues.org/article/35/us-and-foreign-aid-assistance
tyrones own, give her dixie has been out in these places and therefore has a better insight into what is going on in these places than you and I could ever know.
Quote from: ziggysego on January 27, 2010, 01:54:10 AM
tyrones own, give her dixie has been out in these places and therefore has a better insight into what is going on in these places than you and I could ever know.
Zig.. is that not a pretty presumptuous statement you made there, based solely on what you've read?
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 27, 2010, 01:47:18 AM
Quote from: AFS on January 27, 2010, 01:42:22 AM
TO, constant attempts at belittlement and ridicule of others do little for your arguments. You might find more allies around here if your posts weren't always drenched with smarm and condescension.
Cheers AFS, I'll take that on board however I'm really not all that insecure that I need to feel accepted
on an internet discussion board :)
Why make hundreds of posts on these issues if you don't care about how they're received? Isn't the goal of a discussion or argument to win your opponents over to your way of thinking?
Quote from: AFS on January 27, 2010, 02:37:55 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 27, 2010, 01:47:18 AM
Quote from: AFS on January 27, 2010, 01:42:22 AM
TO, constant attempts at belittlement and ridicule of others do little for your arguments. You might find more allies around here if your posts weren't always drenched with smarm and condescension.
Cheers AFS, I'll take that on board however I'm really not all that insecure that I need to feel accepted
on an internet discussion board :)
Why make hundreds of posts on these issues if you don't care about how they're received? Isn't the goal of a discussion or argument to win your opponents over to your way of thinking?
No not really because I learned a long time ago that " A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still "
There is no winning and losing here, I'm well aware of that...I just refuse to let blatant hatred, double standards
and Hypocrisy go unchallenged........the way I see it, we throw out views and opinions knowing full well the other
will never change their mind but there are others reading in who can draw their own conclusions to what's said
and who knows maybe learn something along the way that's not being reported in the media..... and of course it
keeps me on my toes ;)
from: ziggysego on Today at 01:54:10 AM
tyrones own, give her dixie has been out in these places and therefore has a better insight into what is going on in these places than you and I could ever know.
Zig.. is that not a pretty presumptuous statement you made there, based solely on what you've read
Sure fill us in so on where you have being ?
Or is all your posts based on Rush , Glen and Bill
First I would like to state that the US has been and will always look out for it's best interests world wide just like any other nation would do.
Is the US a saint around the world - NO.
Is every other country a saint - NO.
Each nation looks into situations be it war, unrest, natural disaster and even trade relations/economics to further its own agenda.
BUT THE TOPIC AT HAND IS THE U.S. AID TO HAITI.
The US population (citizens) were averaging 100,000 per hour in red cross donations for Haiti. Numerous pro sports leagues donated money. There was a 3 or 4 hour telethon on the TV for aid to benefit Haiti.
The people of America are generous when it comes to tragic events that affect people across the world.
The US government has pledged 100 million in Aid for Haiti. The US has brought in military units into a country that has been left in rubble. Now are all military units just gun toting soldiers? No. The navy has the seabees, a division of the US Navy that has bulldozers, trucks and construction trained military members. The US Army has the Army Corp.of engineers.
There are houses and buildings blocking roads, streets buckled up, bridges destroyed and the ONLY Air Control Tower collapsed as well.
Now the US military had to repair the damaged runway at the airport ( the capital has only 1 runway), plan and coordinate incoming flights into Haiti. There are now 120 flights a day landing. On these flights were aid from countries from around the world besides the US. Every country wants to take the lead in assisting and aiding the Haitians. But realistically the US is closer to Haiti (geographically) then most of the other countries offering assistance, so they were the 1st responders for the most part. Rescue teams were dispatched from Los Angeles and Virgina which are local government (city).
What about the soldiers who are sporting weapons? Well the Haitian government is decimated, their police department and the prison collapsed with criminals running free. Are the soldiers shooting and killing Haitians - NO. Can they be used as a temporary law enforcement? - sure. The US is part of the UN contingent aiding the people of Haiti. If the UN sees the need for the US military to assist thats what they are there for.
The US Navy has sent the USS Carl Vinson which is equipped with dozens of helicopters which will assist in moving supplies through the air when roads are inaccessible by ground. The hospital ship Comfort which is a floating hospital with a 1000 bed capacity and 12 operating rooms.
The US Airforce airdrop element is being used to drop medical supplies, food and water.
I could go on and on about the US government and its citizens assisting the people of Haiti but some would balk at the efforts because of self imposed bias - to each their own.
I haven't read one comment pro or con on the Canadian Government and its military in Haiti.
What would be your view if the US decided to not help the Haitians? Why can the US do no good in some peoples eyes?
GHD, I can understand your point of view towards the US in light of your work with the people of Gaza, but can you see evil in what they are doing in Haiti?
I still can't fathom I am taking T.O.'s side of view on the US bashing with me being a liberal and him a Republican loving SOB (in jest).
Maybe when this horrible situation is over a journalist can ask a Haitian if the US really helped or would they have preferred the US staying away all together.
Quote from: give her dixie on January 26, 2010, 09:24:26 PM
It's amazing that in my reply to the thread title, I get attacked for my user name, for supporting the Taliban, Hamas, for watching the "wrong" News station, for disliking the US, etc, etc. Have these same people read my post? Have they any argument with what I said? Why the personal attacks?
Let me point out this much, I have nothing against the US population, just the corrupt Government that sends troops into Haiti before life saving aid. I attack them for sending $7million a day into Israel in order to ethnically cleanse Palestinians, including the slaughter of innocent children. I witnessed their handy work in Gaza where US built F16's dropped bombs 1 km from the Sports Club I was in, killing people in the process. I seen the construction of the 30 metre underground wall they are building along the Egyptian border to cut off the supply of food into Gaza. A wall they couldn't build in New Orleans. I was attacked by Egyptian forces who are paid for by the US Govt. to the tune of nearly $2billion per year. I seen their work in Chile, Bolivia, Argentina, etc, etc, where they propped up one ruthless dictator after another. Plus, last March, I surveyed the damage that their bombs and bullets did in pulverising Gaza, and killing 1,400 people in 3 weeks.
These are just some of the examples of what I have personally witnessed, and that is before I elaborate on Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc, etc.
So, if by critising US foreign policy for their total disregard for human rights and humanity happens to piss off a few people on this board, well, I couldn't care less.
The problem with you is not that you criticise the US, the problem is that you just knock them all the time and give them credit for nothing. The people of haiti would be clean fcuked if it wasnt for the like of the yanks and the Lybians etc, the yanks are doing what they can to help the people of Haiti as well they should, given their history there. I give Obama credit for the way he has responded to this crisis, further I am disgusted by the like of that cnut Pat Robertson and that fat bastid Rush limbaugh who dont want America to send aid to haiti.
Dixie, I have less than no respect for your stance on this issue because you are incapable of seeing anything positive in anything the yanks do. I also know you dont give a shite about my opinion or anyone elses, fair enough but you keep up the good work, sort the Israelis out and never forget that the yanks are propping them up and have done since the state was born.
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on January 27, 2010, 09:16:25 AM
First I would like to state that the US has been and will always look out for it's best interests world wide just like any other nation would do.
Is the US a saint around the world - NO.
Is every other country a saint - NO.
Each nation looks into situations be it war, unrest, natural disaster and even trade relations/economics to further its own agenda.
BUT THE TOPIC AT HAND IS THE U.S. AID TO HAITI.
The US population (citizens) were averaging 100,000 per hour in red cross donations for Haiti. Numerous pro sports leagues donated money. There was a 3 or 4 hour telethon on the TV for aid to benefit Haiti.
The people of America are generous when it comes to tragic events that affect people across the world.
The US government has pledged 100 million in Aid for Haiti. The US has brought in military units into a country that has been left in rubble. Now are all military units just gun toting soldiers? No. The navy has the seabees, a division of the US Navy that has bulldozers, trucks and construction trained military members. The US Army has the Army Corp.of engineers.
There are houses and buildings blocking roads, streets buckled up, bridges destroyed and the ONLY Air Control Tower collapsed as well.
Now the US military had to repair the damaged runway at the airport ( the capital has only 1 runway), plan and coordinate incoming flights into Haiti. There are now 120 flights a day landing. On these flights were aid from countries from around the world besides the US. Every country wants to take the lead in assisting and aiding the Haitians. But realistically the US is closer to Haiti (geographically) then most of the other countries offering assistance, so they were the 1st responders for the most part. Rescue teams were dispatched from Los Angeles and Virgina which are local government (city).
What about the soldiers who are sporting weapons? Well the Haitian government is decimated, their police department and the prison collapsed with criminals running free. Are the soldiers shooting and killing Haitians - NO. Can they be used as a temporary law enforcement? - sure. The US is part of the UN contingent aiding the people of Haiti. If the UN sees the need for the US military to assist thats what they are there for.
The US Navy has sent the USS Carl Vinson which is equipped with dozens of helicopters which will assist in moving supplies through the air when roads are inaccessible by ground. The hospital ship Comfort which is a floating hospital with a 1000 bed capacity and 12 operating rooms.
The US Airforce airdrop element is being used to drop medical supplies, food and water.
I could go on and on about the US government and its citizens assisting the people of Haiti but some would balk at the efforts because of self imposed bias - to each their own.
I haven't read one comment pro or con on the Canadian Government and its military in Haiti.
What would be your view if the US decided to not help the Haitians? Why can the US do no good in some peoples eyes?
GHD, I can understand your point of view towards the US in light of your work with the people of Gaza, but can you see evil in what they are doing in Haiti?
I still can't fathom I am taking T.O.'s side of view on the US bashing with me being a liberal and him a Republican loving SOB (in jest).
Maybe when this horrible situation is over a journalist can ask a Haitian if the US really helped or would they have preferred the US staying away all together.
I published figures here a while ago in response to stats showing that while the US government contributes relatively little in foreign aid, the average US citizen voluntarily contributes more than almost any other country.
When people are critical of the States they usually mean the Government and not the population as a whole. Part of the problem is that the average US citizen has little idea of what is going on in places such as Gaza and that is largely down to their very un-liberal media, despite what some here will tell you.
After 911 an image of Palestinians burning a US flag was broadcast all over the world. That image had a huge impact in the US. It looked as if the Palestinians were celebrating in the streets at the Twin Towers attacks by burning US flags. The problem was that those images were archives and had nothing to do with 911. But the damage was done.
Propaganda. Very effective propaganda.
Quotelargely down to their very un-liberal media, despite what some here will tell you.
:D ye know the auld saying that if ye tell yourself something for long enough you'll actually start to believe it.... certainly seems to work for you!
QuoteAfter 911 an image of Palestinians burning a US flag was broadcast all over the world. That image had a huge impact in the US. It looked as if the Palestinians were celebrating in the streets at the Twin Towers attacks by burning US flags. The problem was that those images were archives and had nothing to do with 911. But the damage was done.
Pray tell your not trying to imply that the Palestinians don't dislike us after all...sure you've only to listen to Dixie to get the grass roots feelings they have for us there...propaganda is right
except in this case you're not very effective ::)
first of all as someone born in the bronx and whose dad served in the US army for years i have very little time for US policy on israel, the israelies should be told to fock off and live or die with the palestinians. thats their problem and one just about every american i know has little or no interest in.
that however will be the only time i criticise america, everthing else the US does around the world is done for the greater good, sometimes it works sometimes not but the motivation is always for the greater good. if one country has to be a world policeman then thank God its the US, when the brits were a world power they plundered the place, if the Chinese got half a chance they'd do the same. . guys like dixie see nothing wrong in china, cuba, venezuela and other left wing piss pots and nothing right in the US
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 27, 2010, 06:08:58 PM
Quotelargely down to their very un-liberal media, despite what some here will tell you.
:D ye know the auld saying that if ye tell yourself something for long enough you'll actually start to believe it.... certainly seems to work for you!
QuoteAfter 911 an image of Palestinians burning a US flag was broadcast all over the world. That image had a huge impact in the US. It looked as if the Palestinians were celebrating in the streets at the Twin Towers attacks by burning US flags. The problem was that those images were archives and had nothing to do with 911. But the damage was done.
Pray tell your not trying to imply that the Palestinians don't dislike us after all...sure you've only to listen to Dixie to get the grass roots feelings they have for us there...propaganda is right
except in this case you're not very effective ::)
No I'm not..........the point is that the US media, either carelessly or more likely deliberately, completely misrepresented the situation......but that wouldn't bother you. You seem to be pretty good at that yourself.
Magic Kingdom, when you say that:
"everthing else the US does around the world is done for the greater good, sometimes it works sometimes not but the motivation is always for the greater good. if one country has to be a world policeman then thank God its the US,
Are you saying that the killing of over 1million people in Iraq and Afghanistan is for the greater good? The dropping of the A bomb in Japan, killing over 300,000 and leaving generations deformed was for the greater good? Was the dropping of Nepalm and slaughter of hundreds of thousands in Vietnam for the greater good?
Was the support of vicious dictators in Latin and South America who murdered hundreds of thousands also for the greater good? Has the death of over 5,000 US troops in Iraq been for the greater good? Sure if you think these acts are for the greater good, then why have you not followed in your fathers footsteps and fought for the greater good? I'm sure sitting on your ass is for the greater good.
I could go on and on about horrific events that have been carried out by the US, but sure in your eyes, they were for the greater good. What is your defination of the "Greater Good"? Slaughter innocent people? You are seriously deluded, and it's attitudes like yours that have the world in the mess it is in today.
Just because I am critical of US foreign policy doesn't make me a supporter of China, Cuba, Venezuela. That is the same line trotted out by Zionists whenever they call anyone jewish who is critical of Israel as a "Self Hating Jew".
Tyrones Own, the Palestinians don't need propaganda to dislike the US. On a daily basis they see their Apache helicopters, F16's, tanks, guns, Caterpillar dozers, murder, maim, and destroy their lives and homes.
But, sure maybe that is for the greater good eh?
Plus, they see the illegal Apartheid wall been built with Cement supplied by none other than the Irish company Cement Roadstone Holdings. (CRH)
But back to the title of the thread. I am critical of the US taking over the airport and using it to land thousands of troops, and at the same time turn away doctors, search and rescue teams, aid, medicine, etc, etc. What the media didn't show us was the thousands of aid workers from Cuba, Venezuela, Turkey, Pakistain, etc, etc enter Haiti through the Dominican Repbulic? Did they report that Chavez also sent in $100 million and that he dropped any debt that Haiti owed them? No, and i'm sure you never got to read that Chavez supplies free oil to the poor and homeless in your good ole USofA. No other US company were willing to do it.
If and when the US do some good work and the people in Haiti are thankful for that, I will be the 1st on here to praise them for it. However, right now, they have been more of a hinderance than a solution. It is like watching a repeat of New Orleans all over again.
Quote from: give her dixie on January 27, 2010, 08:59:27 PM
Magic Kingdom, when you say that:
"everthing else the US does around the world is done for the greater good, sometimes it works sometimes not but the motivation is always for the greater good. if one country has to be a world policeman then thank God its the US,
Are you saying that the killing of over 1million people in Iraq and Afghanistan is for the greater good? The dropping of the A bomb in Japan, killing over 300,000 and leaving generations deformed was for the greater good? Was the dropping of Nepalm and slaughter of hundreds of thousands in Vietnam for the greater good?
Was the support of vicious dictators in Latin and South America who murdered hundreds of thousands also for the greater good? Has the death of over 5,000 US troops in Iraq been for the greater good? Sure if you think these acts are for the greater good, then why have you not followed in your fathers footsteps and fought for the greater good? I'm sure sitting on your ass is for the greater good.
the A bomb saved lives in my opinion by ending the war in the pacific. i also clearly stated that while the US might mess up the motivation was always for the right reason. no doubt youd still be quite happy if Saddam Hussein was still terrorising and threatening Iraq's neighbours but i'm much happier the despot is gone
Quote from: give her dixie on January 27, 2010, 08:59:27 PM
But back to the title of the thread. I am critical of the US taking over the airport and using it to land thousands of troops, and at the same time turn away doctors, search and rescue teams, aid, medicine, etc, etc. What the media didn't show us was the thousands of aid workers from Cuba, Venezuela, Turkey, Pakistain, etc, etc enter Haiti through the Dominican Repbulic? Did they report that Chavez also sent in $100 million and that he dropped any debt that Haiti owed them? No, and i'm sure you never got to read that Chavez supplies free oil to the poor and homeless in your good ole USofA. No other US company were willing to do it.
bullshit, keep reading that crap
Quote from: magickingdom on January 27, 2010, 09:32:01 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on January 27, 2010, 08:59:27 PM
Magic Kingdom, when you say that:
"everthing else the US does around the world is done for the greater good, sometimes it works sometimes not but the motivation is always for the greater good. if one country has to be a world policeman then thank God its the US,
Are you saying that the killing of over 1million people in Iraq and Afghanistan is for the greater good? The dropping of the A bomb in Japan, killing over 300,000 and leaving generations deformed was for the greater good? Was the dropping of Nepalm and slaughter of hundreds of thousands in Vietnam for the greater good?
Was the support of vicious dictators in Latin and South America who murdered hundreds of thousands also for the greater good? Has the death of over 5,000 US troops in Iraq been for the greater good? Sure if you think these acts are for the greater good, then why have you not followed in your fathers footsteps and fought for the greater good? I'm sure sitting on your ass is for the greater good.
the A bomb saved lives in my opinion by ending the war in the pacific. i also clearly stated that while the US might mess up the motivation was always for the right reason. no doubt youd still be quite happy if Saddam Hussein was still terrorising and threatening Iraq's neighbours but i'm much happier the despot is gone
Nobody seemed to mind when that neighbour was Iran.
Quote from: Arthur_Friend on January 27, 2010, 09:52:38 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on January 27, 2010, 09:32:01 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on January 27, 2010, 08:59:27 PM
Magic Kingdom, when you say that:
"everthing else the US does around the world is done for the greater good, sometimes it works sometimes not but the motivation is always for the greater good. if one country has to be a world policeman then thank God its the US,
Are you saying that the killing of over 1million people in Iraq and Afghanistan is for the greater good? The dropping of the A bomb in Japan, killing over 300,000 and leaving generations deformed was for the greater good? Was the dropping of Nepalm and slaughter of hundreds of thousands in Vietnam for the greater good?
Was the support of vicious dictators in Latin and South America who murdered hundreds of thousands also for the greater good? Has the death of over 5,000 US troops in Iraq been for the greater good? Sure if you think these acts are for the greater good, then why have you not followed in your fathers footsteps and fought for the greater good? I'm sure sitting on your ass is for the greater good.
the A bomb saved lives in my opinion by ending the war in the pacific. i also clearly stated that while the US might mess up the motivation was always for the right reason. no doubt youd still be quite happy if Saddam Hussein was still terrorising and threatening Iraq's neighbours but i'm much happier the despot is gone
Nobody seemed to mind when that neighbour was Iran.
another shower of despots. . still if democracy gets a foothold in the area all the better. .
Is this the bullshit you are talking about tyrones Own?
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/797/heating-oil-chavez-venezuela
Help from Hugo Chavez: Free Heating Oil for Needy U.S. Families
by Vicki Ekstrom, Special to Stateline.
Close to 200,000 poor families in 15 cold-weather states -- in every Northeastern state except New Hampshire -- can thank controversial Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez for helping them heat their homes this winter.
The Venezuelan-controlled oil-refining company, Citgo Petroleum Corp., donated 45 million gallons of free home heating oil this winter in a move that bought good publicity for the country's socialist leader, who famously called President Bush "the devil" in a 2006 United Nations speech.
But New Hampshire's lack of participation in this year's free-oil program shows that accepting oil from Chavez, a frequent critic of the U.S. government, touches a political nerve.
"There's the thought that by participating we're somehow helping Venezuela and Chavez and that it's not something good for the U.S. government," said Gale Hennessey, director of Southern New Hampshire Services, which works with the state to administer aid to low-income households.
Venezuela's offer of free oil this winter came as the U.S. economy was slumping, federal assistance through the Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program (LIHEAP) had dropped and home heating-oil prices hit a record high at more than $3.50 a gallon, according to the U.S. Department of Energy's Energy Information Administration database of monthly prices since 1990.
The almost 200,000 American families helped by Venezuela this winter is small compared with the almost 6 million families helped through LIHEAP. But LIHEAP was able to help only about 16% of families needing assistance, so Venezuela's program helped to fill a void until its supplies were exhausted early this winter season.
http://www.laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=351054&CategoryId=10717
CARACAS – President Hugo Chavez announced Monday that he would write off the undisclosed sum Haiti owes Venezuela for oil as part of the ALBA bloc's plans to help the impoverished Caribbean nation after the devastating Jan. 12 earthquake.
"Haiti has no debt with Venezuela, just the opposite: Venezuela has a historical debt with that nation, with that people for whom we feel not pity but rather admiration, and we share their faith, their hope," Chavez said after the extraordinary meeting of foreign ministers of the Bolivarian Alliance for the Americas, or ALBA.
He also announced that ALBA has decided on a comprehensive plan that includes an immediate donation of $20 million to Haiti's health sector, and a fund that, Chavez said, will be at least $100 million "for starters."
Oil-rich Venezuela is the economic heart of ALBA, which also includes Cuba, Bolivia, Ecuador, Nicaragua, Dominica, Antigua and Barbuda, and St. Vincent and the Grenadines. Haiti is among several countries that send observers to ALBA meetings.
Chavez said one part of ALBA assistance to Haiti would consist of fuel distribution via "mobile service stations" set to be up and running within a few weeks.
The ALBA plan of aid for Haiti includes support for such sectors as agriculture, production, food imports and distribution, and immigration amnesty for Haitians living illegally in the bloc's member-states.
Cuba and Venezuela sent assistance and aid workers to Haiti within days of the magnitude-7.0 temblor that left an estimated 200,000 dead and 1.5 million people homeless.
The leftist Venezuelan leader also noted that there are some celebrities who want to work with ALBA, among whom he named actor Sean Penn, who, he said, called him because the members of a team of U.S. doctors now in Haiti want to "coordinate" their activities. EFE
Quote from: magickingdom on January 27, 2010, 09:59:39 PM
Quote from: Arthur_Friend on January 27, 2010, 09:52:38 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on January 27, 2010, 09:32:01 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on January 27, 2010, 08:59:27 PM
Magic Kingdom, when you say that:
"everthing else the US does around the world is done for the greater good, sometimes it works sometimes not but the motivation is always for the greater good. if one country has to be a world policeman then thank God its the US,
Are you saying that the killing of over 1million people in Iraq and Afghanistan is for the greater good? The dropping of the A bomb in Japan, killing over 300,000 and leaving generations deformed was for the greater good? Was the dropping of Nepalm and slaughter of hundreds of thousands in Vietnam for the greater good?
Was the support of vicious dictators in Latin and South America who murdered hundreds of thousands also for the greater good? Has the death of over 5,000 US troops in Iraq been for the greater good? Sure if you think these acts are for the greater good, then why have you not followed in your fathers footsteps and fought for the greater good? I'm sure sitting on your ass is for the greater good.
the A bomb saved lives in my opinion by ending the war in the pacific. i also clearly stated that while the US might mess up the motivation was always for the right reason. no doubt youd still be quite happy if Saddam Hussein was still terrorising and threatening Iraq's neighbours but i'm much happier the despot is gone
Nobody seemed to mind when that neighbour was Iran.
another shower of despots. . still if democracy gets a foothold in the area all the better. .
You're missing my point entirely.
Well done all.
From RTE.
Haiti: Man pulled from rubble after 12 days
Wednesday, 27 January 2010 22:29
US troops have rescued a man from a collapsed building in Haiti's capital after 12 days under the rubble.
Haiti: Earthquake coverage/donation information
Photographs: Haiti in Pictures
The 31-year-old man was not buried in the original earthquake - but became trapped following an aftershock.
He was pulled by US soldiers from a collapsed building and was treated in hospital for dehydration and a broken leg.
The rescue brings the total number of people saved to 133.
Meanwhile, there are reports of riots at food distribution points in the capital city Port-au-Prince.
Shots were fired by police when a government food lorry was attacked by a mob in the Petionville area of the city.
Earlier this week UN peacekeeping troops fired tear gas outside the wrecked presidential palace when crowds overwhelmed a food drop.
Violent incidents are putting some people off going to aid distributions.
Food drops are being accompanied by US troops and UN peacekeepers.
US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton defended the US role in the relief operation from charges of heavy-handed incompetence.
Amid claims that the US operation had been badly coordinated with other states and agencies, Ms Clinton responded that she 'deeply resents those who attack our country.'
20,000 US troops have been sent to Haiti to distribute food and water.
So far, the Irish public has donated more than €12m to charities to date to help the victims of the earthquake in Haiti.
Charities say this money will be used for immediate aid and for their long-term relief efforts in the country.
Concern has raised €4.5m, with GOAL raising €2.5m and Trocaire €2.7m. Red Cross, UNICEF and Oxfam have also raised significant amounts.
Arthur, Donald Rumsfeld had no problem with Saddam, so why should Magickingdom?
(http://dutchpatriot.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/donald-rumsfeld-meets-saddam-hussein.jpg)
Quote from: Denn Forever on January 27, 2010, 10:43:32 PM
Well done all.
From RTE.
Haiti: Man pulled from rubble after 12 days
Wednesday, 27 January 2010 22:29
US troops have rescued a man from a collapsed building in Haiti's capital after 12 days under the rubble.
Haiti: Earthquake coverage/donation information
Photographs: Haiti in Pictures
The 31-year-old man was not buried in the original earthquake - but became trapped following an aftershock.
He was pulled by US soldiers from a collapsed building and was treated in hospital for dehydration and a broken leg.
The rescue brings the total number of people saved to 133.
Meanwhile, there are reports of riots at food distribution points in the capital city Port-au-Prince.
Shots were fired by police when a government food lorry was attacked by a mob in the Petionville area of the city.
Earlier this week UN peacekeeping troops fired tear gas outside the wrecked presidential palace when crowds overwhelmed a food drop.
Violent incidents are putting some people off going to aid distributions.
Food drops are being accompanied by US troops and UN peacekeepers.
US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton defended the US role in the relief operation from charges of heavy-handed incompetence.
Amid claims that the US operation had been badly coordinated with other states and agencies, Ms Clinton responded that she 'deeply resents those who attack our country.'
20,000 US troops have been sent to Haiti to distribute food and water.
So far, the Irish public has donated more than €12m to charities to date to help the victims of the earthquake in Haiti.
Charities say this money will be used for immediate aid and for their long-term relief efforts in the country.
Concern has raised €4.5m, with GOAL raising €2.5m and Trocaire €2.7m. Red Cross, UNICEF and Oxfam have also raised significant amounts.
Was just gonna post that Denn.... I have highlighted some parts about which I wonder should America continue to hang their head in shame...
QuoteI still can't fathom I am taking T.O.'s side of view on the US bashing with me being a liberal and him a Republican loving SOB (in jest).
Speak without fear my friend...don't mind the back lash from the so called PC hate brigade! Tis wonderful to see what common ground can be found between us when we think for ourselves rather than listen to the hate speech from the Dictator sympathizers around here.
And again........................Yawn..............please don't insult me with a Republican Label.
QuoteTyrones Own, the Palestinians don't need propaganda to dislike the US.
Please do point to where exactly I said that they did ::).... No ye see in your eagerness to
divulge your vast knowledge of all things Anti American you failed to notice I was addressing
Muppet's miserable failed attempt at propagandizing this thread with yet more Hate mongering!
Quote from: Celt_Man on January 27, 2010, 10:57:52 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on January 27, 2010, 10:43:32 PM
Well done all.
From RTE.
Haiti: Man pulled from rubble after 12 days
Wednesday, 27 January 2010 22:29
US troops have rescued a man from a collapsed building in Haiti's capital after 12 days under the rubble.
Haiti: Earthquake coverage/donation information
Photographs: Haiti in Pictures
The 31-year-old man was not buried in the original earthquake - but became trapped following an aftershock.
He was pulled by US soldiers from a collapsed building and was treated in hospital for dehydration and a broken leg.
The rescue brings the total number of people saved to 133.
Meanwhile, there are reports of riots at food distribution points in the capital city Port-au-Prince.
Shots were fired by police when a government food lorry was attacked by a mob in the Petionville area of the city.
Earlier this week UN peacekeeping troops fired tear gas outside the wrecked presidential palace when crowds overwhelmed a food drop.
Violent incidents are putting some people off going to aid distributions.
Food drops are being accompanied by US troops and UN peacekeepers.
US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton defended the US role in the relief operation from charges of heavy-handed incompetence.
Amid claims that the US operation had been badly coordinated with other states and agencies, Ms Clinton responded that she 'deeply resents those who attack our country.'
20,000 US troops have been sent to Haiti to distribute food and water.
So far, the Irish public has donated more than €12m to charities to date to help the victims of the earthquake in Haiti.
Charities say this money will be used for immediate aid and for their long-term relief efforts in the country.
Concern has raised €4.5m, with GOAL raising €2.5m and Trocaire €2.7m. Red Cross, UNICEF and Oxfam have also raised significant amounts.
Was just gonna post that Denn.... I have highlighted some parts about which I wonder should America continue to hang their head in shame...
I am sure those survivors would also be ashamed of the Americans saving their lives. ::)
What number of lives saved would be acceptable?
QuoteIs this the bullshit you are talking about tyrones Own?
Excuse me? get your act together now John....you're getting very through other
in your frustration to get across how absolutely fabulous Chavez is... sure tell me this
why don't you pack up and head out to Venezuela if it's that great, I'm sure you'd fit
the bill perfectly like thon other useful idiot Penn ::)
Quote from: Denn Forever on January 27, 2010, 10:43:32 PM
Well done all.
From RTE.
Haiti: Man pulled from rubble after 12 days
Wednesday, 27 January 2010 22:29
US troops have rescued a man from a collapsed building in Haiti's capital after 12 days under the rubble.
Haiti: Earthquake coverage/donation information
Photographs: Haiti in Pictures
The 31-year-old man was not buried in the original earthquake - but became trapped following an aftershock.
He was pulled by US soldiers from a collapsed building and was treated in hospital for dehydration and a broken leg.
The rescue brings the total number of people saved to 133.
Meanwhile, there are reports of riots at food distribution points in the capital city Port-au-Prince.
Shots were fired by police when a government food lorry was attacked by a mob in the Petionville area of the city.
Earlier this week UN peacekeeping troops fired tear gas outside the wrecked presidential palace when crowds overwhelmed a food drop.
Violent incidents are putting some people off going to aid distributions.
Food drops are being accompanied by US troops and UN peacekeepers.
US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton defended the US role in the relief operation from charges of heavy-handed incompetence.
Amid claims that the US operation had been badly coordinated with other states and agencies, Ms Clinton responded that she 'deeply resents those who attack our country.'
20,000 US troops have been sent to Haiti to distribute food and water.
So far, the Irish public has donated more than €12m to charities to date to help the victims of the earthquake in Haiti.
Charities say this money will be used for immediate aid and for their long-term relief efforts in the country.
Concern has raised €4.5m, with GOAL raising €2.5m and Trocaire €2.7m. Red Cross, UNICEF and Oxfam have also raised significant amounts.
Yea seriously Denn...you're threading on thin ice around here posting that, it doesn't exactly
shine the same light that Dixie and his good little soldiers here would have us believe!
I think my photograph above shows who are are the Dictator sympthizers are around here. Correct me if i'm wrong, but was Chavez not demoticratically elected? Were Hamas not democratically elected? Was Morales not elected democratically elected? Was Aristidle not democratically elected in Haiti, and then removed by US/France?
I may not support them, but they were elected by their own people, and in my books, that is democracy and I support the will of the people. Sure I even supported US democracy whenever they elected the worlds biggest warlord in Bush.
The US have been the biggest supporter of Dictators, and the biggest opponents of democracy.
Enough said.
Quote from: give her dixie on January 27, 2010, 11:14:27 PM
I think my photograph above shows who are are the Dictator sympthizers are around here. Correct me if i'm wrong, but was Chavez not demoticratically elected? Were Hamas not democratically elected? Was Morales not elected democratically elected? Was Aristidle not democratically elected in Haiti, and then removed by US/France?
I may not support them, but they were elected by their own people, and in my books, that is democracy and I support the will of the people. Sure I even supported US democracy whenever they elected the worlds biggest warlord in Bush.
The US have been the biggest supporter of Dictators, and the biggest opponents of democracy.
Enough said.
Was Hilter not democractically elected??
I understand your point GHD, I really do but that's not to say that a democractically elected can't be a bad thing or a dicator either
Ah sure ye left out Ahmadinejad..wasn't he democratically elected also ::)
Wise up FFS :-[
Just heard on the news that the airport in Port au Prince is working at 170% capacity...
Shameful from Americans... ::) ::)
QuoteI think my photograph above shows who are are the Dictator sympthizers are around here.
Were they sympathizing with him when they Hung the Cnut ;D
Quote from: Celt_Man on January 27, 2010, 11:18:05 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on January 27, 2010, 11:14:27 PM
I think my photograph above shows who are are the Dictator sympthizers are around here. Correct me if i'm wrong, but was Chavez not demoticratically elected? Were Hamas not democratically elected? Was Morales not elected democratically elected? Was Aristidle not democratically elected in Haiti, and then removed by US/France?
I may not support them, but they were elected by their own people, and in my books, that is democracy and I support the will of the people. Sure I even supported US democracy whenever they elected the worlds biggest warlord in Bush.
The US have been the biggest supporter of Dictators, and the biggest opponents of democracy.
Enough said.
Was Hilter not democractically elected??
I understand your point GHD, I really do but that's not to say that a democractically elected can't be a bad thing or a dicator either
Oh no you didn't! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law)
Quote from: AFS on January 27, 2010, 11:23:38 PM
Quote from: Celt_Man on January 27, 2010, 11:18:05 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on January 27, 2010, 11:14:27 PM
I think my photograph above shows who are are the Dictator sympthizers are around here. Correct me if i'm wrong, but was Chavez not demoticratically elected? Were Hamas not democratically elected? Was Morales not elected democratically elected? Was Aristidle not democratically elected in Haiti, and then removed by US/France?
I may not support them, but they were elected by their own people, and in my books, that is democracy and I support the will of the people. Sure I even supported US democracy whenever they elected the worlds biggest warlord in Bush.
The US have been the biggest supporter of Dictators, and the biggest opponents of democracy.
Enough said.
Was Hilter not democractically elected??
I understand your point GHD, I really do but that's not to say that a democractically elected can't be a bad thing or a dicator either
Oh no you didn't! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law)
Never heard of that before but I guess I did...
Not really surprising... talking about Dicators and then WW II a couple of posts ago so I'd safetly say that 99% of people would make that leap
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 27, 2010, 11:21:58 PM
QuoteI think my photograph above shows who are are the Dictator sympthizers are around here.
Were they sympathizing with him when they Hung the Cnut ;D
Don't bite the hand that feeds you.
Celt Man, No, Hitler was not democratically elected.
Yes, fair play to the US rescuing a man from the rubble. Just think how many more could have been rescued if they had of deployed their troops earlier, or allowed rescue teams to land at the airport.
What is happening right now is not the point of my argument, but rather the fact that in the aftermath of the earthquake, when food and water was most needed, the US were more worried about getting troops on the ground.
There will be a few enquiries into how the whole response to Haiti was handled, and if i'm wrong about my stand, then i'll apologise to all concerned and tip my hat to the US.
Yes the family of the man rescued will be forever grateful to the US troop who rescued him, likewise the family of the people rescued by the Israeli troops. If I was rescued by anyone, I would also be eternally grateful.
However, the whole nation of Haiti wouldn't be too grateful to the US and France for their past behaviour.
Below is an excellent piece on Haiti by Noam Chomsky.
It is as relevant today as it was when it was first published.
The "Noble Phase" and "Saintly Glow" of US Foreign Policy
Noam Chomsky March 9, 2004 from the book
Getting Haiti Right This Time
The U.S. and the Coup
Noam Chomsky, Paul Farmer, Amy Goodman
Common Courage Press, 2004, paper
p1
Those who have any concern for Haiti will naturally want to understand how its most recent tragedy has been unfolding. And for those who have had the privilege of any contact with the people of this tortured land, it is not just natural but inescapable. Nevertheless, we make a serious error if we focus too narrowly on the events of the recent past, or even on Haiti alone. The crucial issue for us is what we should be doing about what is taking place. That would be true even if our options and our responsibility were limited; far more so when they are immense and decisive, as in the case of Haiti. And even more so because the course of the terrible story was predictable years ago-if we failed to act to prevent it. And fail we did. The lessons are clear, and so important that they would be the topic of daily front-page articles in a free press.
Reviewing what was taking place in Haiti shortly after Clinton "restored democracy" in 1994, I was compelled to conclude, unhappily, in Z Magazine that "It would not be very surprising, then, if the Haitian operations become another catastrophe," and if so, "It is not a difficult chore to trot out the familiar phrases that will explain the failure of our mission of benevolence in this failed society." The reasons were evident to anyone who chose to look. And the familiar phrases again resound, sadly and predictably.
There is much solemn discussion today explaining, correctly, that democracy means more than flipping a lever every \ few years. Functioning democracy has preconditions. One is that the population should have some way to learn what is happening in the world. The real world, not the self-serving portrait offered by the "establishment press," which is disfigured by its "subservience to state power" and "the usual hostility to popular movements"-the accurate words of Paul Farmer, whose work on Haiti is, in its own way, perhaps even as remarkable as what he has accomplished within the country. Farmer was writing in 1993, reviewing mainstream commentary and reporting on Haiti, a disgraceful record that goes back to the days of Wilson's vicious and destructive invasion in 1915, and on to the present. The facts are extensively documented, appalling, and shameful. And they are deemed irrelevant for the usual reasons: they do not conform to the required self-image, and so are efficiently dispatched deep into the memory hole, though they can be unearthed by those who have some interest in the real world
They will rarely be found, however, in the "establishment press." Keeping to the more liberal and knowledgeable end of the spectrum, the standard version is that in "failed states" like Haiti and Iraq the US must become engaged in benevolent "nation-building" to "enhance democracy," a "noble goal" but one that may be beyond our means because of the inadequacies of the objects of our solicitude. In Haiti, despite Washington's dedicated efforts from Wilson to FDR while the country was under Marine occupation, "the new dawn of Haitian democracy never came." And "not all America's good wishes, nor all its Marines, can achieve [democracy today] until the Haitians do it themselves" (H.D.S. Greenway, Boston Globe). As New York Times correspondent R.W. Apple recounted two centuries of history in 1994, reflecting on the prospects for Clinton's endeavor to "restore democracy" then underway, "Like the French in the 19th century, like the Marines who occupied Haiti from 1915 to 1934, the American forces who are trying to impose a new order will confront a complex and violent society with no history of democracy."
Apple does appear to go a bit beyond the norm in his reference to Napoleon's savage assault on Haiti, leaving it in ruins, in order to prevent the crime of liberation in the world's richest colony, the source of much of France's wealth. But perhaps that undertaking too satisfies the fundamental criterion of benevolence: it was supported by the United States, which was naturally outraged and frightened by "the first nation in the world to argue the case of universal freedom for all humankind, revealing the limited definition of freedom adopted by the French and American revolutions." So Haitian historian Patrick Bellegarde-Smith writes accurately describing the terror in the slave state next door, which was not relieved even when Haiti's successful liberation struggle, at enormous cost, opened the way to the expansion to the West by compelling Napoleon to accept the Louisiana Purchase. The US continued to do what it could to strangle Haiti, even supporting France's insistence that Haiti pay a huge indemnity for the crime of liberating itself, a burden it has never escaped-and France, of course, dismisses with elegant disdain Haiti's request, recently under Aristide, that it at least repay the indemnity, forgetting the responsibilities that a_ civilized society would accept.
The basic contours of what led to the current tragedy are pretty clear. Just beginning with the 1990 election of Aristide (far too narrow a time frame), Washington was appalled by the election of a populist candidate with a grass-roots constituency just as it had been appalled by the prospect of the hemisphere's first free country on its doorstep two centuries earlier. Washington's traditional allies in Haiti naturally agreed. "The fear of democracy exists, by definitional necessity, in elite groups who monopolize economic and political power," Bellegarde-Smith observes in his perceptive history of Haiti (Haiti: The Breached Citadel); whether in Haiti or the US or anywhere else.
The threat of democracy in Haiti in 1991 was even more ominous because of the favorable reaction of the international financial institutions (World Bank, Inter-American Development Bank) to Aristide's programs, which awakened traditional concerns over the "virus" effect of successful independent development. These are familiar themes in international affairs: American independence aroused similar concerns among European leaders. The dangers are commonly perceived to be particularly grave in a country like Haiti, which had been ravaged by France and then reduced to utter misery by a century of US intervention. If even people in such dire circumstances can take their fate into their own hands, who knows what might happen elsewhere as the "contagion spreads."
The Bush I administration reacted to the disaster of democracy by shifting aid from the democratically elected government to what are called "democratic forces": the wealthy elites and the business sectors, who, along with the murderers and torturers of the military and paramilitaries, had been lauded by the current incumbents in Washington, in their Reaganite phase, for their progress in "democratic development," justifying lavish new aid. The praise came in response to ratification by the Haitian people of a law granting Washington's client killer and torturer Baby Doc Duvalier the authority to suspend the rights of any political party without reasons. The referendum passed by a majority of 99.98%. It therefore marked a positive step towards democracy as compared with the 99% approval of a 1918 law granting US corporations the right to turn the country into a US plantation, passed by 5% of the population after the Haitian Parliament was disbanded at gunpoint by Wilson's Marines when it refused to accept this "progressive measure," essential for "economic development." Their reaction to Baby Doc's encouraging progress towards democracy was characteristic-worldwide-on the part of the visionaries who are now entrancing educated opinion with their dedication to bringing democracy to a suffering world-although, to be sure, their actual exploits are being tastefully rewritten to satisfy current needs.
Refugees fleeing to the US from the terror of the US-backed dictatorships were forcefully returned, in gross violation of international humanitarian law. The policy was reversed when a democratically elected government took office. Though the flow of refugees reduced to a trickle, they were mostly granted political asylum. Policy returned to normal when a military junta overthrew the Aristide government after seven months, and state terrorist atrocities rose to new heights. The perpetrators were the army-the inheritors of the National Guard left by Wilson's invaders to control the population-and its paramilitary forces. The most important of these, FRAPH, was founded by CIA asset Emmanuel Constant, who now lives happily in Queens, Clinton and Bush II having dismissed extradition requests-because he would reveal US ties to the murderous junta, it is widely assumed. Constant's contributions to state terror were, after all, meager; merely prime responsibility for the murder of 4-5000 poor blacks.
Recall the core element of the Bush doctrine, which has "already become a de facto rule of international relations," Harvard's Graham Allison writes in Foreign Affairs: "those who harbor terrorists are as guilty as the terrorists themselves," in the President's words, and must be treated accordingly, by large-scale bombing and invasion.
When Aristide was overthrown by the 1991 military coup, the Organization of American States declared an embargo. Bush I announced that the US would violate it by exempting US firms. He was thus "fine tuning" the embargo for the benefit of the suffering population, the New York Times reported. Clinton authorized even more extreme violations of the embargo: US trade with the junta and its wealthy supporters sharply increased. The crucial element of the embargo was, of course, oil. While the CIA solemnly testified to Congress that the junta "probably will be out of fuel and power very shortly" and "Our intelligence efforts are focused on detecting attempts to circumvent the embargo and monitoring its impact," Clinton secretly authorized the Texaco Oil Company to ship oil to the junta illegally, in violation of presidential directives. This remarkable revelation was the lead story on the AP wires the day before Clinton sent the Marines to "restore democracy," impossible to miss-I happened to be monitoring AP wires that day and saw it repeated prominently over and over-and obviously of enormous significance for anyone who wanted to understand what was happening. It was suppressed with truly impressive discipline, though reported in industry journals along with scant mention buried in the business press.
Also efficiently suppressed were the crucial conditions that Clinton imposed for Aristide's return: that he adopt the program of the defeated U.S.-backed candidate in the 1990 elections, a former World Bank official who had received 14% of the vote. We call this "restoring democracy," a prime illustration of how US foreign policy has entered a "noble phase" with a "saintly glow," the national press explained. The harsh neoliberal program that Aristide was compelled to adopt was virtually guaranteed to demolish the remaining shreds of economic sovereignty, extending Wilson's progressive legislation and similar US-imposed measures since.
As democracy was thereby restored, the World Bank announced that "The renovated state must focus on an economic strategy centered on the energy and initiative of Civil Society, especially the private sector, both national and foreign." That has the merit of honesty: Haitian Civil Society includes the tiny rich elite and US corporations, but not the vast majority of the population, the peasants and slum-dwellers who had committed the grave sin of organizing to elect their own president. World Bank officers explained that the neoliberal program would benefit the "more open, enlightened, business class" and foreign investors, but assured us that the program "is not going to hurt the poor to the extent it has in other countries" subjected to structural adjustment, because the Haitian poor already lacked minimal protection from proper economic policy, such as subsidies for basic goods. Aristide's minister in charge of rural development and agrarian reform was not notified of the plans to be imposed on this largely peasant society, to be returned by "America's good wishes" to the track from which it veered briefly after the regrettable democratic election in 1990.
Matters then proceeded in their predictable course. A 1995 USAID report explained that the "export-driven trade and investment policy" that Washington imposed will "relentlessly squeeze the domestic rice farmer," who will be forced to turn to agroexport, with incidental benefits to US agribusiness and investors. Despite their extreme poverty, Haitian rice farmers are quite efficient, but cannot possibly compete with US agribusiness, even if it did not receive 40% of its profits from government subsidies, sharply increased under the Reaganites who are again in power, still producing enlightened rhetoric about the miracles of the market. We now read that Haiti cannot feed itself, another sign of a "failed state."
A few small industries were still able to function, for example, making chicken parts. But US conglomerates have a large surplus of dark meat, and therefore demanded the right to dump their excess products in Haiti. They tried to do the same in Canada and Mexico too, but there illegal dumping could be barred. Not in Haiti, compelled to submit to efficient market principles by the US government and the corporations it serves.
One might note that the Pentagon's proconsul in Iraq, Paul Bremer, ordered a very similar program to be instituted there, with the same beneficiaries in mind. That's also called "enhancing democracy." In fact, the record, highly revealing and important, goes back to the 18th century. Similar programs had a large role in creating today's third world. Meanwhile the powerful ignored the rules, except when they could benefit from them, and were able to become rich developed societies; dramatically the US, which led the way in modern protectionism and, particularly since World War II, has relied crucially on the dynamic state sector for innovation and development, socializing risk and cost.
The punishment of Haiti became much more severe under Bush 11-there are differences within the narrow spectrum of cruelty and greed. Aid was cut and international institutions were pressured to do likewise, under pretexts too outlandish to merit discussion. They are extensively reviewed in Paul Farmer's Uses of Haiti, and in some current press commentary, notably by Jeffrey Sachs (Financial Times) and Tracy Kidder (New York Times).
Putting details aside, what has happened since is eerily similar to the overthrow of Haiti's first democratic government in 1999. The Aristide government, once again, was undermined by planners, who understood, under Clinton, that the threat of democracy can be overcome if economic sovereignty is eliminated, and presumably also understood that economic development will also be a faint hope under such conditions, one of the best-confirmed lessons of economic history. Bush II planners are even more dedicated to undermining democracy and independence, and despised Aristide and the popular organizations that swept him to power with perhaps even more passion than their predecessors. The forces that reconquered the country are mostly inheritors of the US-installed army and paramilitary terrorists.
Those who are intent on diverting attention from the US role will object that the situation is more complex-as is always true-and that Aristide too was guilty of many crimes. Correct, but if he had been a saint the situation would hardly have developed very differently, as was evident in 1994, when the only real hope was that a democratic revolution in the US would make it possible to shift policy in a more civilized direction.
What is happening now is awful, maybe beyond repair. And there is plenty of short-term responsibility on all sides. But the right way for the US and France to proceed is very clear. They should begin with payment of enormous reparations to Haiti (France is perhaps even more hypocritical and disgraceful in this regard than the US). That, however, requires construction of functioning democratic societies in which, at the very least, people have a prayer of knowing what's going on. Commentary on Haiti, Iraq, and other "failed societies" is quite right in stressing the importance of overcoming the "democratic deficit" that substantially reduces the significance of elections. It does not, however, draw the obvious corollary: the lesson applies in spades to a country where "politics is the shadow cast on society by big business," in the words of America's leading social philosopher, John Dewey, describing his own country in days when the blight had spread nowhere near as far as it has today.
For those who are concerned with the substance of democracy and human rights, the basic tasks at home are also clear enough. They have been carried out before, with no slight success, and under incomparably harsher conditions elsewhere, including the slums and hills of Haiti. We do not have to submit, voluntarily, to living in a failed state suffering from an enormous democratic deficit.
Quote from: magickingdom on January 27, 2010, 09:32:01 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on January 27, 2010, 08:59:27 PM
Magic Kingdom, when you say that:
"everthing else the US does around the world is done for the greater good, sometimes it works sometimes not but the motivation is always for the greater good. if one country has to be a world policeman then thank God its the US,
Are you saying that the killing of over 1million people in Iraq and Afghanistan is for the greater good? The dropping of the A bomb in Japan, killing over 300,000 and leaving generations deformed was for the greater good? Was the dropping of Nepalm and slaughter of hundreds of thousands in Vietnam for the greater good?
Was the support of vicious dictators in Latin and South America who murdered hundreds of thousands also for the greater good? Has the death of over 5,000 US troops in Iraq been for the greater good? Sure if you think these acts are for the greater good, then why have you not followed in your fathers footsteps and fought for the greater good? I'm sure sitting on your ass is for the greater good.
the A bomb saved lives in my opinion by ending the war in the pacific. i also clearly stated that while the US might mess up the motivation was always for the right reason. no doubt youd still be quite happy if Saddam Hussein was still terrorising and threatening Iraq's neighbours but i'm much happier the despot is gone
This is just spectacularly naive.
Could you have possibly found a more left wing, progressive Anti US outfit to quote than the Common Courage Press in your attempt to garner support for your views here?
You are an undeniable hater of the US with the fallacious views you continue to spout while at the same time having
the audacity to try to have some of us believe that you have no animosity towards us and that you're merely stating facts ::)
... go back over some of your posts FFS and realize you're making a right bollix out of yourself.
QuoteCelt Man, No, Hitler was not democratically elected.
But Ahmadinejad was right???
tyrones own is one staunch defender of freedom,democracy and the american way of doing it, calling you a "bollix" is his way of telling you that anything other than his way is wrong, where have we heard that before?.
Quote from: mannix on January 28, 2010, 02:59:19 PM
tyrones own is one staunch defender of freedom,democracy and the american way of doing it, calling you a "bollix" is his way of telling you that anything other than his way is wrong, where have we heard that before?.
Yes and he usually avoids proper debate and then tries to end any discussion by simply declaring himself the winner.
Where have we seen that before?
(http://mikebeckham.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/bush-mission-accomplished.jpg)
QuoteYes and he usually avoids proper debate
Define proper Debate.... would it be jumping in with one line insults and
childish tired photo's of Bush?, with nothing at all to add to the discussion!
Yes you certainly showed me up there.....again :D
Quoteby simply declaring himself the winner.
Where..? or did you have to fabricate that just as an excuse to put that picture up a g a i n...*yawn*
QuoteWhere have we seen that before?
*See above* ::) :D
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 28, 2010, 03:56:48 PM
QuoteYes and he usually avoids proper debate
Define proper Debate.... would it be jumping in with one line insults and
childish tired photo's of Bush?, with nothing at all to add to the discussion!
Yes you certainly showed me up there.....again :D
QED
Phew...got me again, except now you're down to just using letters!
By the way how many times is it now you've pulled that one out?
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 28, 2010, 04:09:57 PM
Phew...got me again, except now you're down to just using letters!
By the way how many times is it now you've pulled that one out?
Many times, but just for you.
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2010, 04:12:42 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 28, 2010, 04:09:57 PM
Phew...got me again, except now you're down to just using letters!
By the way how many times is it now you've pulled that one out?
Many times, but just for you.
I know...those who lack any real substance usually do have a habit or repeating themselves ;)
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 28, 2010, 04:14:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2010, 04:12:42 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 28, 2010, 04:09:57 PM
Phew...got me again, except now you're down to just using letters!
By the way how many times is it now you've pulled that one out?
Many times, but just for you.
I know...those who lack any real substance usually do have a habit or repeating themselves ;)
Really so repetition is a sign of lack of substance?
History is fcuked so. Not the the US military pay much heed to it anyway.
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2010, 04:17:35 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 28, 2010, 04:14:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2010, 04:12:42 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 28, 2010, 04:09:57 PM
Phew...got me again, except now you're down to just using letters!
By the way how many times is it now you've pulled that one out?
Many times, but just for you.
I know...those who lack any real substance usually do have a habit or repeating themselves ;)
Really so repetition is a sign of lack of substance?
History is fcuked so. Not the the US military pay much heed to it anyway.
What History..FFS sure it's being rewritten as we speak to suit the left's progressive agenda ::)
Is it intentional to drag this off topic ;)
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 28, 2010, 04:22:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2010, 04:17:35 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 28, 2010, 04:14:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2010, 04:12:42 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 28, 2010, 04:09:57 PM
Phew...got me again, except now you're down to just using letters!
By the way how many times is it now you've pulled that one out?
Many times, but just for you.
I know...those who lack any real substance usually do have a habit or repeating themselves ;)
Really so repetition is a sign of lack of substance?
History is fcuked so. Not the the US military pay much heed to it anyway.
What History..FFS sure it's being rewritten as we speak to suit the left's progressive agenda ::)
Is it intentional to drag this off topic ;)
Eh bringing the US military into it is bringing it back on topic, but I can see why that would make you uncomfortable. :-*
Uncomfortable? Not at all, I'm extremely proud of our hero's that are in Haiti distributing aid and pulling survivors from rubble, aren't you?
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 28, 2010, 04:32:01 PM
Uncomfortable? Not at all, I'm extremely proud of our hero's that are in Haiti distributing aid and pulling survivors from rubble, aren't you?
Hey I never had a problem with that, if you look back I said I would give Obama a chance.
tyrones own, on more than one occasion you have referred to the US as "we".
So, in light of that, why don't you change your name to "America's Own" and take down our flag
and fly the stars and stipes of your country?
If you have that much pride in your military/killing machine, then it would be a logical step eh?
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2010, 04:55:54 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 28, 2010, 04:32:01 PM
Uncomfortable? Not at all, I'm extremely proud of our hero's that are in Haiti distributing aid and pulling survivors from rubble, aren't you?
Hey I never had a problem with that, if you look back I said I would give Obama a chance.
Would ye ever make up your mind, you want to give Obama a chance but yet have nothing but disparaging comments
for the US military whom he heads up *shakes head in bewilderment at how for such a sharp fella, you wouldn't get the
irony in that*
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 28, 2010, 06:39:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2010, 04:55:54 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 28, 2010, 04:32:01 PM
Uncomfortable? Not at all, I'm extremely proud of our hero's that are in Haiti distributing aid and pulling survivors from rubble, aren't you?
Hey I never had a problem with that, if you look back I said I would give Obama a chance.
Would ye ever make up your mind, you want to give Obama a chance but yet have nothing but disparaging comments
for the US military whom he heads up *shakes head in bewilderment at how for such a sharp fella, you wouldn't get the
irony in that*
Obama hasn't started any wars unlike his predecessor and his cronies. The US military is still involved in those wars and are fair game for criticism of their fcuk ups IMHO.
Also, you are assuming my position is the same as everyone else's that criticizes the US military. It isn't as simple as that. I referred here in the past to the book 'Fiasco' which explains that there are some superb people in the US military who predicted the route the war would take as far back as 2002 and strongly advised different strategies. However the NeoCons civilians over-ruled them and we unnecessarily have the 7 years (and still counting) war.
Criticising some of the actions of the military doesn't automatically mean that they are all wrong all of the time.
Quote from: give her dixie on January 28, 2010, 05:53:40 PM
tyrones own, on more than one occasion you have referred to the US as "we".
So, in light of that, why don't you change your name to "America's Own" and take down our flag
and fly the stars and stipes of your country?
If you have that much pride in your military/killing machine, then it would be a logical step eh?
Eh Ok..... is this now what your reduced to ::) would your time not be better spent explaining why you
can't seem to come up with an answer as to how Ahmadinejad fits into you futile argument on how democracy
really works amongst these 7th century throwbacks >:(
http://deathpenaltynews.blogspot.com/2010/01/iran-sentences-11-demonstrators-to.html
Here's a little example that blows his democratically elected farce of an argument out of the water
for those of ye reading from the sidelines :o
TO - would you agree that GWB was elected democratically against Gore?
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 28, 2010, 06:51:00 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on January 28, 2010, 05:53:40 PM
tyrones own, on more than one occasion you have referred to the US as "we".
So, in light of that, why don't you change your name to "America's Own" and take down our flag
and fly the stars and stipes of your country?
If you have that much pride in your military/killing machine, then it would be a logical step eh?
Eh Ok..... is this now what your reduced to ::) would your time not be better spent explaining why you
can't seem to come up with an answer as to how Ahmadinejad fits into you futile argument on how democracy
really works amongst these 7th century throwbacks >:(
http://deathpenaltynews.blogspot.com/2010/01/iran-sentences-11-demonstrators-to.html
Here's a little example that blows his democratically elected farce of an argument out of the water
for those of ye reading from the sidelines :o
Why does mentioning a dodgy regime in yet another country that the US wants to invade over oil prove your argument and somehow weaken mine? ::)
tyrones own, you're right. Any country that operates a death penalty is a 7th century throwback.
QuoteWhy does mentioning a dodgy regime in yet another country that the US wants to invade over oil prove your argument and somehow weaken mine? ::)
Now it's been widely known here for a while that your attention to detail wouldn't be the greatest
but go back over it very slowly this time and try really
really hard to figure out who it was i had quoted ::)
now i know it's understandable enough that you usually come apart at the seams when caught out of your depth
...but what's really funny about it is how relentless you are...keep it up :D
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 28, 2010, 07:19:15 PM
QuoteWhy does mentioning a dodgy regime in yet another country that the US wants to invade over oil prove your argument and somehow weaken mine? ::)
Now it's been widely known here for a while that your attention to detail wouldn't be the greatest
but go back over it very slowly this time and try really really hard to figure out who it was i had quoted ::)
now i know it's understandable enough that you usually come apart at the seams when caught out of your depth
...but what's really funny about it is how relentless you are...keep it up :D
Speaking for everyone as usual and then claiming victory prematurely, as usual.
Read back over your own posts. The is nothing other than abuse directed at anyone with a different opinion to yours or the NeoCons.
Quote from: give her dixie on January 28, 2010, 07:00:20 PM
tyrones own, you're right. Any country that operates a death penalty is a 7th century throwback.
Now John you can try to spin this all day long if ye like but I'll keep bringing you back around to it
You said; "I may not support them, but they were elected by their own people,
and in my books, that is democracy and I support the will of the people."
Well.....is what's going on in Iran democracy in you opinion?... after all by your logic he was democratically elected!
There ye go again with Claiming victory thing ...sure why would I want to put an end to you voluntarily
making a fool out of yourself here for all to see! :-[
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 28, 2010, 07:32:56 PM
There ye go again with Claiming victory thing ...sure why would I want to put an end to you voluntarily
making a fool out of yourself here for all to see! :-[
Of course you don't. ::)
More and more posts with just insults.
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2010, 07:39:44 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 28, 2010, 07:32:56 PM
There ye go again with Claiming victory thing ...sure why would I want to put an end to you voluntarily
making a fool out of yourself here for all to see! :-[
Of course you don't. ::)
More and more posts with just insults.
I suppose one could view
some of my posts that way but honestly I prefer to go with dixey's
concept of "Merely stating facts"
tyrones own you are coming across like an absolute p***k on this thread
An alternative view on Haiti. The more I read of this the more I thought it couldn't be real but I was wrong
http://www.flipcollective.com/2010/01/26/if-you-rebuild-it-they-will-come-by-paul-shirley/ (http://www.flipcollective.com/2010/01/26/if-you-rebuild-it-they-will-come-by-paul-shirley/)
Interesting article in the "Wall Street Journal" where US doctors critise the response of the US in Haiti.
I await your response tyrones/us/own
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703808904575025091656446622.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
More good news.
Girl pulled alive from rubble 15 days after Haiti quake
By Virginie Montet (AFP) – 4 hours ago
PORT-AU-PRINCE — Former US president Bill Clinton made an emotional appeal Thursday for the world not to forget Haiti, as doctors treated a 16-year-old girl miraculously pulled from the rubble of its killer earthquake.
The UN joined the chorus of concern for the stricken Caribbean nation, urging the international community not to slacken its engagement after the disaster which killed around 170,000 people and left more than a million homeless.
Sixteen days after the 7.0-magnitude quake, foreign aid is only trickling through to survivors living in dire conditions at makeshift camps dotted around public parks and streets in devastated Port-au-Prince.
Miracle Haiti girl had nothing to eat or drink, say doctors
Doctors on a French hospital ship were caring for young Darlene Etienne one day after rescuers dug her out from a collapsed building in the capital, severely dehydrated and so weak she could barely talk, but alive.
"Surviving for more than two weeks, it's difficult but apparently it's possible," said French doctor Sebastien Caussade, hopeful that others may still be saved from beneath the debris.
Miracle survival stories from Haiti earthquake
Her ordeal appeared to be the longest of any of the 135 survivors who have been pulled from wrecked homes, schools and businesses across the city and nearby towns hit by the January 12 catastrophe.
In Davos, Switzerland, Clinton took center stage at the annual forum for the world's political and business elite, urging them to help the poorest nation in the Americas "rise from the ashes".
"They need to be helped through this hideous natural disaster," said Clinton, a UN special envoy on Haiti.
He said the country had been "punished by either being ignored or abused."
The vast foreign relief operation has been spearheaded by the United States, which has poured 20,000 troops into Haiti to speed up the distribution of aid. UN peacekeepers are also playing a large role.
But survivors have complained of receiving little of the huge influx of food, water and shelter, with huge lines of increasingly desperate Haitians building up at impromptu distribution points.
Scavengers continue to pillage materials to build shelter, clambering over the foul-smelling ruins where countless bodies are buried despite police efforts to chase them off.
War of nerves as Haiti digs out from the rubble
US President Barack Obama highlighted the plight of Haiti's quake victims when he invited the country's ambassador to the United States to his debut State of the Union address late Wednesday.
During Obama's speech an unidentified man seated in an area typically reserved for diplomats called out "Mister president, don't forget Haiti!" before being silenced by his neighbors and security, according to a witness close to him.
The UN Human Rights Council also weighed in, adopting a resolution after a day of concerned debate in Geneva about the plight of children and the elderly, saying that the world must not slacken its engagement in Haiti.
It pressed the international community "to continue to ensure adequate and coordinated support to the government and the people of Haiti in their efforts to overcome the challenges arising from the earthquake."
World Food Program executive director Josette Sheeran said in Davos that Haiti is "the most complicated catastrophe we have ever been confronted."
Energy biscuits and 200,000 family-sized tents top the wanted list, while Ann Veneman, executive director of the UN Children's Fund UNICEF, said another priority was to open centers for orphans to protect them from traffickers.
Haitian President Rene Preval suggested that the country's legislative elections, due next month, would have to be postponed.
"In the conditions we are in right now it is technically impossible to hold elections. The people who provide the technical assistance for elections are dead," Preval told AFP.
Copyright © 2010 AFP. All rights reserved
In world news...A Haitian girl was miraculously rescued from under the debris of a crumbled building yesterday... 15 days after the devastating quake on Jan. 12.French rescuers dug out 17-year-old Darlene Etienne after neighbors reported they had heard a voice coming from the rubbleThe girl, who was covered with a blanket and supplied with an oxygen mask, was rushed to a French field hospital.
Quote from: Declan on January 28, 2010, 08:27:57 PM
An alternative view on Haiti. The more I read of this the more I thought it couldn't be real but I was wrong
http://www.flipcollective.com/2010/01/26/if-you-rebuild-it-they-will-come-by-paul-shirley/ (http://www.flipcollective.com/2010/01/26/if-you-rebuild-it-they-will-come-by-paul-shirley/)
Paul Shirley has caused quite a stir over here with this blog post - and upon reading it I wasnt surprised. What an atrocious piece of work.
Condoms - that will fix the problem all right.
Quote from: Puckoon on January 28, 2010, 09:24:48 PM
Quote from: Declan on January 28, 2010, 08:27:57 PM
An alternative view on Haiti. The more I read of this the more I thought it couldn't be real but I was wrong
http://www.flipcollective.com/2010/01/26/if-you-rebuild-it-they-will-come-by-paul-shirley/ (http://www.flipcollective.com/2010/01/26/if-you-rebuild-it-they-will-come-by-paul-shirley/)
Paul Shirley has caused quite a stir over here with this blog post - and upon reading it I wasnt surprised. What an atrocious piece of work.
Condoms - that will fix the problem all right.
Clearly a very ignorant and arrogant man. He has no comprehension of the history of the area, the causes of poverty or unfair trade. Well done Paul Shirley on being born in a rich country and not having to worry your small mind about disasters like this you fuckwit.
And it all began with me talking about France ???
From Page 1
Quote from: stew on January 25, 2010, 10:43:16 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on January 25, 2010, 09:43:11 PM
Quote from: Minder on January 25, 2010, 09:34:16 PM
I am not disagreeing, I just think France were more culpable.
It's form for France too. There are a few Countries (including this one) picking up the pieces after them in Africa too.
Aye, America is an awful country altogether, I am sure that the big men on here that bash it at every opportunity would never visit it or if they did I am sure they would sit in a bar and hold court, letting the big, bad yanks know exactly what they think of their country/government.
The hypocrisy on this board is unbelievable at times.
Quote from: Puckoon on January 28, 2010, 09:24:48 PM
Quote from: Declan on January 28, 2010, 08:27:57 PM
An alternative view on Haiti. The more I read of this the more I thought it couldn't be real but I was wrong
http://www.flipcollective.com/2010/01/26/if-you-rebuild-it-they-will-come-by-paul-shirley/ (http://www.flipcollective.com/2010/01/26/if-you-rebuild-it-they-will-come-by-paul-shirley/)
Paul Shirley has caused quite a stir over here with this blog post - and upon reading it I wasnt surprised. What an atrocious piece of work.
Condoms - that will fix the problem all right.
Never heard of the guy before. No doubt he will a hero to some. The piece appears to have cost him whatever gig he had with ESPN though.
Quote from: Rav67 on January 28, 2010, 11:50:11 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on January 28, 2010, 09:24:48 PM
Quote from: Declan on January 28, 2010, 08:27:57 PM
An alternative view on Haiti. The more I read of this the more I thought it couldn't be real but I was wrong
http://www.flipcollective.com/2010/01/26/if-you-rebuild-it-they-will-come-by-paul-shirley/ (http://www.flipcollective.com/2010/01/26/if-you-rebuild-it-they-will-come-by-paul-shirley/)
Paul Shirley has caused quite a stir over here with this blog post - and upon reading it I wasnt surprised. What an atrocious piece of work.
Condoms - that will fix the problem all right.
Clearly a very ignorant and arrogant man. He has no comprehension of the history of the area, the causes of poverty or unfair trade. Well done Paul Shirley on being born in a rich country and not having to worry your small mind about disasters like this you fuckwit.
Don't hold back Rav, say what you mean!!
Quote from: Massey-135 on January 28, 2010, 07:52:23 PM
tyrones own you are coming across like an absolute p***k on this thread
So if I have this right Massey...I should apologize for my
approach in my attempt to call out and challenge
hate speech because I may be insulting to some ??? eh..OK ::)
Silly me for thinking that defending hate would be the popular thought process around this board but alas.......Now I'm quite well aware that it's seen to be the hip and cool thing amongst the younger generation to dispise the US both here and abroad thanks to the ignorance factories otherwise know as schools and Universities but the hypocrisy from the PC brigade here is mind boggling :o
Quote from: give her dixie on January 28, 2010, 09:10:54 PM
Interesting article in the "Wall Street Journal" where US doctors critise the response of the US in Haiti.
I await your response tyrones/us/own
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703808904575025091656446622.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
Dixie..you can search for and quote anti establisment, self loathing newspaper articles til your blue in the face, it simply isn't going to shine any other light on you other than the fact that you are a hater of what this Country has, is and will ever stand for...plain and simple!
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 29, 2010, 06:02:03 PM
Quote from: Massey-135 on January 28, 2010, 07:52:23 PM
tyrones own you are coming across like an absolute p***k on this thread
So if I have this right Massey...I should apologize for my approach in my attempt to call out and challenge hate speech because I may be insulting to some ??? eh..OK ::)
Silly me for thinking that defending hate would be the popular thought process around this board but alas.......Now I'm quite well aware that it's seen to be the hip and cool thing amongst the younger generation to dispise the US both here and abroad thanks to the ignorance factories otherwise know as schools and Universities but the hypocrisy from the PC brigade here is mind boggling :o
Challenging hate speech? Wind your neck in. People are glad america helps out and saves lives, but their past form shows that often their involvement comes at a price further down the line. If they could just help out and leave it at that, it'd be fantastic. That is pretty much the argument of the people on here that you seem to be trying to paint as extreme left wingers who hate the USA. Your arrogance and condescending manner doesn't help in the slightest and you're coming across like a real asshole.
And you're kidding yourself if you think schools here help to foster any kind of ardent anti-americanism, certainly not.
plus you are far too excessive in your use of emoticons for my liking. i f**king hate emoticons.
Nobody does straw men like TO, to his credit.
It's a waste of time posting on here as this fool TO is incapable of engaging in debate, i'm not sure he understands what debate means.
His MO is to accuse other posters of having hatred for America, an anti-US agenda, reading the wrong papers and watching the wrong TV channels. He does this without even having the courtesy to read their posts apparently. Despite his multiple posts he has signally failed to put forward any discernible points in the US's defence, instead spewing bile at any other poster who criticises his adopted homeland.
The good news is that Ireland's gain is the USA's loss when TO emigrated. The average ingtelligence index in Ireland spiked up a point or 2 when this gimp got on the plane. [Probably went up a notch or 2 in Texas tho when he arrived] ;D
Quote from: Keyser soze on January 29, 2010, 06:50:34 PM
It's a waste of time posting on here as this fool TO is incapable of engaging in debate, i'm not sure he understands what debate means.
His MO is to accuse other posters of having hatred for America, an anti-US agenda, reading the wrong papers and watching the wrong TV channels. He does this without even having the courtesy to read their posts apparently. Despite his multiple posts he has signally failed to put forward any discernible points in the US's defence, instead spewing bile at any other poster who criticises his adopted homeland.
The good news is that Ireland's gain is the USA's loss when TO emigrated. The average ingtelligence index in Ireland spiked up a point or 2 when this gimp got on the plane. [Probably went up a notch or 2 in Texas tho when he arrived] ;D
and that line shows what you think of americans. . and thats half the point here and what i find infuriating, some posters (inc yourself) have their own ingrained view of the US, that their thick and their foreign policy is an extension of their oil exploration. these posters know nothing of the US, meanwhile a number of posters on here who have lived in the US pull their hair out trying to explain what america is like but its a dialogue with the deaf.
has dixie or muppet (?) an opinion on the kid hanged in iran yesterday for taking part in the democracy protests? you wont hear a word about that
Quote from: Keyser soze on January 29, 2010, 06:50:34 PM
It's a waste of time posting on here as this fool TO is incapable of engaging in debate, i'm not sure he understands what debate means.
His MO is to accuse other posters of having hatred for America, an anti-US agenda, reading the wrong papers and watching the wrong TV channels. He does this without even having the courtesy to read their posts apparently. Despite his multiple posts he has signally failed to put forward any discernible points in the US's defence, instead spewing bile at any other poster who criticises his adopted homeland.
The good news is that Ireland's gain is the USA's loss when TO emigrated. The average ingtelligence index in Ireland spiked up a point or 2 when this gimp got on the plane. [Probably went up a notch or 2 in Texas tho when he arrived] ;D
If you read the posts on here you have got people who have hatred for America, all I am saying is that it is lazy to just blame the yanks for Haiti despite them donating millions of dollars to aid the Haitians. Give her dixie comes across as hating America, has absolutely nothing good to say about America and I would not be surprised if he changes his name to Muhammed Al Zakbar or some such shit, such is his love for the Muslim world and of course the various causes within, oh yeah, he seems to hate the jews as well.
Quote from: stew on January 29, 2010, 07:23:58 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on January 29, 2010, 06:50:34 PM
It's a waste of time posting on here as this fool TO is incapable of engaging in debate, i'm not sure he understands what debate means.
His MO is to accuse other posters of having hatred for America, an anti-US agenda, reading the wrong papers and watching the wrong TV channels. He does this without even having the courtesy to read their posts apparently. Despite his multiple posts he has signally failed to put forward any discernible points in the US's defence, instead spewing bile at any other poster who criticises his adopted homeland.
The good news is that Ireland's gain is the USA's loss when TO emigrated. The average ingtelligence index in Ireland spiked up a point or 2 when this gimp got on the plane. [Probably went up a notch or 2 in Texas tho when he arrived] ;D
If you read the posts on here you have got people who have hatred for America, all I am saying is that it is lazy to just blame the yanks for Haiti despite them donating millions of dollars to aid the Haitians. Give her dixie comes across as hating America, has absolutely nothing good to say about America and I would not be surprised if he changes his name to Muhammed Al Zakbar or some such shit, such is his love for the Muslim world and of course the various causes within, oh yeah, he seems to hate the jews as well.
Is anybody who critises Israel anti-semetic, Stew?
Quote from: magickingdom on January 29, 2010, 07:22:52 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on January 29, 2010, 06:50:34 PM
It's a waste of time posting on here as this fool TO is incapable of engaging in debate, i'm not sure he understands what debate means.
His MO is to accuse other posters of having hatred for America, an anti-US agenda, reading the wrong papers and watching the wrong TV channels. He does this without even having the courtesy to read their posts apparently. Despite his multiple posts he has signally failed to put forward any discernible points in the US's defence, instead spewing bile at any other poster who criticises his adopted homeland.
The good news is that Ireland's gain is the USA's loss when TO emigrated. The average ingtelligence index in Ireland spiked up a point or 2 when this gimp got on the plane. [Probably went up a notch or 2 in Texas tho when he arrived] ;D
and that line shows what you think of americans. . and thats half the point here and what i find infuriating, some posters (inc yourself) have their own ingrained view of the US, that their thick and their foreign policy is an extension of their oil exploration. these posters know nothing of the US, meanwhile a number of posters on here who have lived in the US pull their hair out trying to explain what america is like but its a dialogue with the deaf.
has dixie or muppet (?) an opinion on the kid hanged in iran yesterday for taking part in the democracy protests? you wont hear a word about that
I am always against the death penalty whether it is Iran or anywhere else. There you happy?
No doubt that makes me a freedom hater.
Quote from: magickingdom on January 29, 2010, 07:22:52 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on January 29, 2010, 06:50:34 PM
It's a waste of time posting on here as this fool TO is incapable of engaging in debate, i'm not sure he understands what debate means.
His MO is to accuse other posters of having hatred for America, an anti-US agenda, reading the wrong papers and watching the wrong TV channels. He does this without even having the courtesy to read their posts apparently. Despite his multiple posts he has signally failed to put forward any discernible points in the US's defence, instead spewing bile at any other poster who criticises his adopted homeland.
The good news is that Ireland's gain is the USA's loss when TO emigrated. The average ingtelligence index in Ireland spiked up a point or 2 when this gimp got on the plane. [Probably went up a notch or 2 in Texas tho when he arrived] ;D
and that line shows what you think of americans. . and thats half the point here and what i find infuriating, some posters (inc yourself) have their own ingrained view of the US, that their thick and their foreign policy is an extension of their oil exploration. these posters know nothing of the US, meanwhile a number of posters on here who have lived in the US pull their hair out trying to explain what america is like but its a dialogue with the deaf.
has dixie or muppet (?) an opinion on the kid hanged in iran yesterday for taking part in the democracy protests? you wont hear a word about that
I knew that last bit from keyser soze was gonna dilute any argument we're trying to make. I think this negative view of the US is based on evidence so it's not as if it's completely unfair to hold that point of view, however to tar the whole country with the same brush would be, but i don't think anyone here is doing that? Surely you can't defend many aspects of american foreign policy down the years? And just because people are critical of some american policy does not mean they must automatically be a supporter of it's enemies e.g. Iran, so don't start that dung. There hasn't been a mention of it on here from dixie or muppet because the title of this thread is The Good American in Haiti, why would Iran's affairs come into it?
QuoteThere hasn't been a mention of it on here from dixie or muppet because the title of this thread is The Good American in Haiti, why would Iran's affairs come into it?
Eh... because of his stated support of
Democratically ::) elected Dictators !!
which by the way is a focal point of his non argument that he has yet to explain :-[
QuoteI knew that last bit from keyser soze was gonna dilute any argument we're trying to make.
It's Ok Massey...Muppet should be along now any time to pull him on insulting people!
Quote from: Declan on January 28, 2010, 06:52:44 PM
TO - would you agree that GWB was elected democratically against Gore?
declan, the US is not one state but a federation of 50 states each of which hold their own election for president. so its possible to not win the popular vote and still win the election by winning enough states by just a few votes. every state in the union has its own government. in the uk its possible to get 40% + of the vote and end up with 25% of the seats in parliament with first past the post
Quote from: Massey-135 on January 29, 2010, 08:22:16 PM
I knew that last bit from keyser soze was gonna dilute any argument we're trying to make. I think this negative view of the US is based on evidence so it's not as if it's completely unfair to hold that point of view, however to tar the whole country with the same brush would be, but i don't think anyone here is doing that? Surely you can't defend many aspects of american foreign policy down the years? And just because people are critical of some american policy does not mean they must automatically be a supporter of it's enemies e.g. Iran, so don't start that dung. There hasn't been a mention of it on here from dixie or muppet because the title of this thread is The Good American in Haiti, why would Iran's affairs come into it?
i wouldnt attempt to defend some aspects of american foreign policy down the years, half of america wouldnt. my main point was that any good america does is lost on a lot of posters and that overall american foreign policy is based on an attempt to spread democracy and human rights around the world. who went in and put manners on the serbs a few short years ago while they were slaughtering muslims in europes back yard? this was in the 1990s ffs and europe sat on its collective hole and did nothing. i mentioned iran because it was in the paper today. dixie has already mentioned 4 or 5 other countries.
Quote from: magickingdom on January 27, 2010, 07:42:43 PM
first of all as someone born in the bronx and whose dad served in the US army for years i have very little time for US policy on israel, the israelies should be told to fock off and live or die with the palestinians. thats their problem and one just about every american i know has little or no interest in.
that however will be the only time i criticise america, everthing else the US does around the world is done for the greater good, sometimes it works sometimes not but the motivation is always for the greater good. if one country has to be a world policeman then thank God its the US, when the brits were a world power they plundered the place, if the Chinese got half a chance they'd do the same. . guys like dixie see nothing wrong in china, cuba, venezuela and other left wing piss pots and nothing right in the US
Quotei wouldnt attempt to defend some aspects of american foreign policy down the years, half of america wouldnt
Do you still think that Bush/Cheney went into Iraq for the greater good given that they based it all on a lie?
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2010, 06:47:26 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 28, 2010, 06:39:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2010, 04:55:54 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 28, 2010, 04:32:01 PM
Uncomfortable? Not at all, I'm extremely proud of our hero's that are in Haiti distributing aid and pulling survivors from rubble, aren't you?
Hey I never had a problem with that, if you look back I said I would give Obama a chance.
Would ye ever make up your mind, you want to give Obama a chance but yet have nothing but disparaging comments
for the US military whom he heads up *shakes head in bewilderment at how for such a sharp fella, you wouldn't get the
irony in that*
Obama hasn't started any wars unlike his predecessor and his cronies. The US military is still involved in those wars and are fair game for criticism of their fcuk ups IMHO.
Also, you are assuming my position is the same as everyone else's that criticizes the US military. It isn't as simple as that. I referred here in the past to the book 'Fiasco' which explains that there are some superb people in the US military who predicted the route the war would take as far back as 2002 and strongly advised different strategies. However the NeoCons civilians over-ruled them and we unnecessarily have the 7 years (and still counting) war.
Criticising some of the actions of the military doesn't automatically mean that they are all wrong all of the time.
this is way of topic but since you mentioned it. the US military went half way around the world into a hostile country of 30m people (to put it mildly) and so far has suffered about 4,000 causalities. in cold mathematical terms from a US perspective its hardly a fiasco whatever some in the military think. its a war that was only ever going to have one winner
Quote from: magickingdom on January 29, 2010, 09:33:04 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2010, 06:47:26 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 28, 2010, 06:39:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2010, 04:55:54 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 28, 2010, 04:32:01 PM
Uncomfortable? Not at all, I'm extremely proud of our hero's that are in Haiti distributing aid and pulling survivors from rubble, aren't you?
Hey I never had a problem with that, if you look back I said I would give Obama a chance.
Would ye ever make up your mind, you want to give Obama a chance but yet have nothing but disparaging comments
for the US military whom he heads up *shakes head in bewilderment at how for such a sharp fella, you wouldn't get the
irony in that*
Obama hasn't started any wars unlike his predecessor and his cronies. The US military is still involved in those wars and are fair game for criticism of their fcuk ups IMHO.
Also, you are assuming my position is the same as everyone else's that criticizes the US military. It isn't as simple as that. I referred here in the past to the book 'Fiasco' which explains that there are some superb people in the US military who predicted the route the war would take as far back as 2002 and strongly advised different strategies. However the NeoCons civilians over-ruled them and we unnecessarily have the 7 years (and still counting) war.
Criticising some of the actions of the military doesn't automatically mean that they are all wrong all of the time.
this is way of topic but since you mentioned it. the US military went half way around the world into a hostile country of 30m people (to put it mildly) and so far has suffered about 4,000 causalities. in cold mathematical terms from a US perspective its hardly a fiasco whatever some in the military think. its a war that was only ever going to have one winner
Of course, 4,000 US soldiers or their families don't matter do they? Not to mention the >100,000 Iraqis dead, countless maimed & abused.
But hey, as long as Bush/Cheney won eh?
Quote from: muppet on January 29, 2010, 09:19:38 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on January 27, 2010, 07:42:43 PM
first of all as someone born in the Bronx and whose dad served in the US army for years i have very little time for US policy on Israel, the Israelis should be told to flock off and live or die with the Palestinians. thats their problem and one just about every American i know has little or no interest in.
that however will be the only time i criticise America, everthing else the US does around the world is done for the greater good, sometimes it works sometimes not but the motivation is always for the greater good. if one country has to be a world policeman then thank God its the US, when the Brits were a world power they plundered the place, if the Chinese got half a chance they'd do the same. . guys like Dixie see nothing wrong in china, Cuba, Venezuela and other left wing piss pots and nothing right in the US
Quotei wouldn't attempt to defend some aspects of American foreign policy down the years, half of America wouldn't
Do you still think that Bush/Chaney went into Iraq for the greater good given that they based it all on a lie?
i was against the war in Iraq because i wouldnt have wasted one american life on the place, however once it started i certainly knew where i stood and i wasn't going to shed any tears over a despot like saddam hussein.
Quote from: magickingdom on January 29, 2010, 09:46:59 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 29, 2010, 09:19:38 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on January 27, 2010, 07:42:43 PM
first of all as someone born in the Bronx and whose dad served in the US army for years i have very little time for US policy on Israel, the Israelis should be told to flock off and live or die with the Palestinians. thats their problem and one just about every American i know has little or no interest in.
that however will be the only time i criticise America, everthing else the US does around the world is done for the greater good, sometimes it works sometimes not but the motivation is always for the greater good. if one country has to be a world policeman then thank God its the US, when the Brits were a world power they plundered the place, if the Chinese got half a chance they'd do the same. . guys like Dixie see nothing wrong in china, Cuba, Venezuela and other left wing piss pots and nothing right in the US
Quotei wouldn't attempt to defend some aspects of American foreign policy down the years, half of America wouldn't
Do you still think that Bush/Chaney went into Iraq for the greater good given that they based it all on a lie?
i was against the war in Iraq because i wouldnt have wasted one american life on the place, however once it started i certainly knew where i stood and i wasn't going to shed any tears over a despot like saddam hussein.
So 'once it started' makes all those deaths ok?
Quote from: magickingdom on January 29, 2010, 09:11:19 PM
i wouldnt attempt to defend some aspects of american foreign policy down the years, half of america wouldnt. my main point was that any good america does is lost on a lot of posters and that overall american foreign policy is based on an attempt to spread democracy and human rights around the world. who went in and put manners on the serbs a few short years ago while they were slaughtering muslims in europes back yard? this was in the 1990s ffs and europe sat on its collective hole and did nothing. i mentioned iran because it was in the paper today. dixie has already mentioned 4 or 5 other countries.
The good they do is not lost on me, but neither is the bad. Americans are extremely capable of patting themselves on the back for the good work, so the bad should recieve the same amount of exposure. And it definitely doesn't, despite what you might think. It's just people are being quite naive if they think all the US want to do in these places is help, there's always more to it. Why don't they concentrate of their own people? I can't understand a country that is against free universal healthcare for it's people and would rather spend it's money on a war in Iraq and Afghanistan. Yes those countries were in an awful state beforehand, but they aren't any better now. It just doesn't make any sense to me that the people in government there with that much power and that much wealth couldn't find a better way to do things wherever they go. That was a ridiculous statement re: the 4000 dead soldiers by the way.
Only time will tell if this current episode in Haiti will go the same way as others. I hope not, and I actually don't think it will, I have some faith in Obama
What would have happened if Saddam had maintained his foothold in Kuwait, or even spread it further throughout the oil producing countries? I was against the invasion but with hindsight I was an egit. Shiver to think what our standard of living / cost of living would have been with him controlling oil output to the west
Quote from: ardal on January 29, 2010, 10:00:51 PM
What would have happened if Saddam had maintained his foothold in Kuwait, or even spread it further throughout the oil producing countries? I was against the invasion but with hindsight I was an egit. Shiver to think what our standard of living / cost of living would have been with him controlling oil output to the west
Wrong war Ted. ::)
Quote from: muppet on January 29, 2010, 10:02:43 PM
Quote from: ardal on January 29, 2010, 10:00:51 PM
What would have happened if Saddam had maintained his foothold in Kuwait, or even spread it further throughout the oil producing countries? I was against the invasion but with hindsight I was an egit. Shiver to think what our standard of living / cost of living would have been with him controlling oil output to the west
Wrong war Ted. ::)
Don't think I mentioned which one Muppet.
Quote from: Massey-135 on January 29, 2010, 09:58:25 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on January 29, 2010, 09:11:19 PM
i wouldnt attempt to defend some aspects of american foreign policy down the years, half of america wouldnt. my main point was that any good america does is lost on a lot of posters and that overall american foreign policy is based on an attempt to spread democracy and human rights around the world. who went in and put manners on the serbs a few short years ago while they were slaughtering muslims in europes back yard? this was in the 1990s ffs and europe sat on its collective hole and did nothing. i mentioned iran because it was in the paper today. dixie has already mentioned 4 or 5 other countries.
The good they do is not lost on me, but neither is the bad. Americans are extremely capable of patting themselves on the back for the good work, so the bad should recieve the same amount of exposure. And it definitely doesn't, despite what you might think. It's just people are being quite naive if they think all the US want to do in these places is help, there's always more to it. Why don't they concentrate of their own people? I can't understand a country that is against free universal healthcare for it's people and would rather spend it's money on a war in Iraq and Afghanistan. Yes those countries were in an awful state beforehand, but they aren't any better now. It just doesn't make any sense to me that the people in government there with that much power and that much wealth couldn't find a better way to do things wherever they go. That was a ridiculous statement re: the 4000 dead soldiers by the way.
Only time will tell if this current episode in Haiti will go the same way as others. I hope not, and I actually don't think it will, I have some faith in Obama
free universal healthcare? now who could be against that massey? its like a trust fund for all kids, i'm in favour of that too. most of the planets drugs were invented stateside and r&d is an expensive game and there would be a lot less of it if the HSE existed in america. btw if your ever in america and dont have health care dont worry, the scare stories are lies. go to any public hospital and they'll fix you up. i hope some form of universal healtcare is agreed but its not a simple issue
Quote from: muppet on January 29, 2010, 09:53:45 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on January 29, 2010, 09:46:59 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 29, 2010, 09:19:38 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on January 27, 2010, 07:42:43 PM
first of all as someone born in the Bronx and whose dad served in the US army for years i have very little time for US policy on Israel, the Israelis should be told to flock off and live or die with the Palestinians. thats their problem and one just about every American i know has little or no interest in.
that however will be the only time i criticise America, everthing else the US does around the world is done for the greater good, sometimes it works sometimes not but the motivation is always for the greater good. if one country has to be a world policeman then thank God its the US, when the Brits were a world power they plundered the place, if the Chinese got half a chance they'd do the same. . guys like Dixie see nothing wrong in china, Cuba, Venezuela and other left wing piss pots and nothing right in the US
Quotei wouldn't attempt to defend some aspects of American foreign policy down the years, half of America wouldn't
Do you still think that Bush/Chaney went into Iraq for the greater good given that they based it all on a lie?
i was against the war in Iraq because i wouldnt have wasted one american life on the place, however once it started i certainly knew where i stood and i wasn't going to shed any tears over a despot like saddam hussein.
So 'once it started' makes all those deaths ok?
i think you get my point
Quote from: magickingdom on January 29, 2010, 08:56:25 PM
Quote from: Declan on January 28, 2010, 06:52:44 PM
TO - would you agree that GWB was elected democratically against Gore?
declan, the US is not one state but a federation of 50 states each of which hold their own election for president. so its possible to not win the popular vote and still win the election by winning enough states by just a few votes. every state in the union has its own government. in the uk its possible to get 40% + of the vote and end up with 25% of the seats in parliament with first past the post
That isn't what he meant.
Quote from: Arthur_Friend on January 29, 2010, 10:36:31 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on January 29, 2010, 08:56:25 PM
Quote from: Declan on January 28, 2010, 06:52:44 PM
TO - would you agree that GWB was elected democratically against Gore?
declan, the US is not one state but a federation of 50 states each of which hold their own election for president. so its possible to not win the popular vote and still win the election by winning enough states by just a few votes. every state in the union has its own government. in the uk its possible to get 40% + of the vote and end up with 25% of the seats in parliament with first past the post
That isn't what he meant.
what did he mean?
He is referring to the Florida fiasco not the popular vote.
that was a fiasco alright, hadnt read the whole thread so i didnt see that. certainly no winners there
Quote from: magickingdom on January 29, 2010, 10:50:01 PM
that was a fiasco alright, hadnt read the whole thread so i didnt see that. certainly no winners there
Eh yeah there was. W won as his brother had promised.
That vote in Florida was an absolute embarassment to the US, it was ridiculous and a lot of people on here enjoyed it.
Hate speech?
A new one on me.
Is that from the same script writing team as "if you're not with me, you're against me?"
Quote from: Hardy on January 30, 2010, 12:16:11 AM
Hate speech?
A new one on me.
Is that from the same script writing team as "if you're not with me, you're against me?"
No Hardy it's not *shakes head*(
this is still the Haiti thread right?) it's as defined right here below;
"Hate speech is a communication that can be defined as that which is used as a means to insult, incite anger or that which may be deemed offensive"
And clearly there are more than my good self that are offended or indeed angered by your in sensitivities on this very serious matter :(
Strangely enough from most of whom don't actually reside here.... shocker I know :o
QuoteIt's a waste of time posting on here as this fool TO is incapable of engaging in debate, i'm not sure he understands what debate means.
:D Wha.....Debate, Don't step on your tail on the way out then! FFS sure none of you'll stand in the one place for more than two minutes, ye are like headless chickens desperately running here there and everywhere for a foothold to back up this nonsense, from quoting newspaper articles to first hand experience ;) oh and manipulating the thread around to attack Bush *yawn*, to the war in Iraq, to the Florida count, to universal health care, to Anti-Semitism, to the Death penalty, to being called an asshole, a p***k, that I am unworthy of my avatar and name ,to my harmless little old use of emoticons :'( fcuk it everything but the kitchen sink...well that and an explanation of how Iran's democracy is working out
for some reason 8)
Quote"I may not support them, but they were elected by their own people, and in my books, that is democracy and I support the will of the people."
Ah come on now Dixey ye can't just pretend now that you didn't actually buy this Democracy thing by avoiding the question.....That was spectacularly naive at best no harm to ye :-[
Is there a back-away-slowly emoticon?
Just listening to the news about Bill Gates giving 10 Billion yes 10 BILLION over the next 10 years to improve Vaccination rates (Malawi was mentioned but I don't know if its only Africa).
Now thats what money is for and good on you Bill.
well done bill gates, provides fantastic products at fantastic prices and then donates large chunks of the profits. individual americans donate more money than any other race on earth. the other thing about living in the states is the amount of voluntary work that gets done, i never knew anyone who volunteered for anything in ireland (maybe that says more about me!).
Quote from: magickingdom on January 30, 2010, 11:49:40 AM
well done bill gates, provides fantastic products at fantastic prices and then donates large chunks of the profits. individual americans donate more money than any other race on earth. the other thing about living in the states is the amount of voluntary work that gets done, i never knew anyone who volunteered for anything in ireland (maybe that says more about me!).
The GAA
Magickingdom, keep on digging holes for yourself with your silly uninformed opinions. To suggest that no one in Ireland volunteers for anything is just as stupid as your support for the US killing machine in anything it does.
Fair play to Bill Gates for his generous donation, however, Bill is not known for donating to poor countries without a massive return for himself or Microsoft. Below is an example of his donation to India 8 years ago. Microsoft definetly benefitted from this donation all right.......
http://www.globalissues.org/article/35/us-and-foreign-aid-assistance#Privatedonationsandphilanthropy
As another example, Bill Gates announced in November 2002 a massive donation of $100 million to India over ten years to fight AIDS there. It was big news and very welcome by many. Yet, at the same time he made that donation, he was making another larger donation—over $400 million, over three years—to increase support for Microsoft's software development suite of applications and its platform, in competition with Linux and other rivals. Thomas Green, in a somewhat cynical article, questions who really benefits, saying "And being a monster MS [Microsoft] shareholder himself, a 'Big Win' in India will enrich him [Bill Gates] personally, perhaps well in excess of the $100 million he's donating to the AIDS problem. Makes you wonder who the real beneficiary of charity is here." (Emphasis is original.)
India has potentially one tenth of the world's software developers, so capturing the market there of software development platforms is seen as crucial. This is just one amongst many examples of what appears extremely welcome philanthropy and charity also having other motives. It might be seen as horrible to criticize such charity, especially on a crucial issue such as AIDS, but that is not the issue. The concern is that while it is welcome that this charity is being provided, at a systemmic level, such charity is unsustainable and shows ulteria motives. Would Bill Gates have donated that much had there not been additional interests for the company that he had founded?
In addition, as award-winning investigative reporter and author Greg Palast also notes, the World Trade Organization's Trade-Related Intellectural Property Rights (TRIPS), "the rule which helps Gates rule, also bars African governments from buying AIDS, malaria and tuberculosis medicine at cheap market prices." He also adds that it is killing more people than the philanthropy saving. What Palast is hinting towards is the unequal rules of trade and economics that are part of the world system, that has contributed to countries such as most in Africa being unable to address the scourge of AIDS and other problems, even when they want to. See for example, the sections on free trade, poverty and corporations on this web site for more.
The LA Times has also found that the Gates Foundation has been investing in questionable companies that are often involved in environmental pollution, even child labor, and more.
In addition to private contributions, when it comes to government aid, these concerns can multiply as it may affect the economic and political direction of an entire nation if such government aid is also tied into political objectives that benefit the donor.
Quote from: Zapatista on January 30, 2010, 12:00:21 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on January 30, 2010, 11:49:40 AM
well done bill gates, provides fantastic products at fantastic prices and then donates large chunks of the profits. individual americans donate more money than any other race on earth. the other thing about living in the states is the amount of voluntary work that gets done, i never knew anyone who volunteered for anything in ireland (maybe that says more about me!).
The GAA
absolutely zap and there are plenty organisations in ireland who rely on volunteers and get them. i'm not saying there is no volunteering done in ireland but there seems to be a culture of it in the states. i worked with about 15 other accountants in the states and every weekend 2 or 3 of them were doing some voluntary work. .
Quote from: give her dixie on January 30, 2010, 12:06:43 PM
Magickingdom, keep on digging holes for yourself with your silly uninformed opinions. To suggest that no one in Ireland volunteers for anything is just as stupid as your support for the US killing machine in anything it does.
touchy touchy, why are you so intolerant of other peoples views? are you even reading my posts? i never said any of the above but you have a problem with facts throughout your posts
There are many areas in you community that you can volunteer.
I am involved is a play and the local hall commitee opens up and take money at the door. Local people help build the set, do stage management, prompting and of course people who act in the play. The people who are in charge of the local Foroige are organising the raffle.
We will be playing about 10 -12 times in the locality for charities in our area and for charities in the area that the play is on.
So there are lots of avenues for charity/volunteer work in your area so get out their and get involved.
Quote from: muppet on January 29, 2010, 09:42:03 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on January 29, 2010, 09:33:04 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2010, 06:47:26 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 28, 2010, 06:39:05 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2010, 04:55:54 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 28, 2010, 04:32:01 PM
Uncomfortable? Not at all, I'm extremely proud of our hero's that are in Haiti distributing aid and pulling survivors from rubble, aren't you?
Hey I never had a problem with that, if you look back I said I would give Obama a chance.
Would ye ever make up your mind, you want to give Obama a chance but yet have nothing but disparaging comments
for the US military whom he heads up *shakes head in bewilderment at how for such a sharp fella, you wouldn't get the
irony in that*
Obama hasn't started any wars unlike his predecessor and his cronies. The US military is still involved in those wars and are fair game for criticism of their fcuk ups IMHO.
Also, you are assuming my position is the same as everyone else's that criticizes the US military. It isn't as simple as that. I referred here in the past to the book 'Fiasco' which explains that there are some superb people in the US military who predicted the route the war would take as far back as 2002 and strongly advised different strategies. However the NeoCons civilians over-ruled them and we unnecessarily have the 7 years (and still counting) war.
Criticising some of the actions of the military doesn't automatically mean that they are all wrong all of the time.
this is way of topic but since you mentioned it. the US military went half way around the world into a hostile country of 30m people (to put it mildly) and so far has suffered about 4,000 causalities. in cold mathematical terms from a US perspective its hardly a fiasco whatever some in the military think. its a war that was only ever going to have one winner
Of course, 4,000 US soldiers or their families don't matter do they? Not to mention the >100,000 Iraqis dead, countless maimed & abused.
But hey, as long as Bush/Cheney won eh?
Magickingdoms identity has been rumbled. His name is Anthony from Texas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92oza2iia7E&feature=related
Quote from: magickingdom on January 27, 2010, 07:42:43 PM
first of all as someone born in the bronx and whose dad served in the US army for years i have very little time for US policy on israel, the israelies should be told to fock off and live or die with the palestinians. thats their problem and one just about every american i know has little or no interest in.
that however will be the only time i criticise america, everthing else the US does around the world is done for the greater good, sometimes it works sometimes not but the motivation is always for the greater good. if one country has to be a world policeman then thank God its the US, when the brits were a world power they plundered the place, if the Chinese got half a chance they'd do the same. . guys like dixie see nothing wrong in china, cuba, venezuela and other left wing piss pots and nothing right in the US
Magickingdom/Anthony I read this, and you make it very clear that you support the US killing machine.
correct me if i'm wrong?
Quote from: give her dixie on January 30, 2010, 12:15:17 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92oza2iia7E&feature=related
you see dixie thats your problem, your listening to too much of that shit. .
Quote from: magickingdom on January 30, 2010, 12:07:26 PM
absolutely zap and there are plenty organisations in ireland who rely on volunteers and get them. i'm not saying there is no volunteering done in ireland but there seems to be a culture of it in the states. i worked with about 15 other accountants in the states and every weekend 2 or 3 of them were doing some voluntary work. .
Could be. There is a lot of it done here which I think is often unappreciated. Much of the voluntary work in Ireland is done through religious organisation such as SVP and Trocaire. I think this is often overlooked due to the religious aspect. I can say that in my family of 6, 3 regularly do volunteer work from the GAA to the AA. The other 3 often tie in.
I don't know but I think the americans have a system involving 'extra curricular' work from an early age. This could be a factor.
Quote from: give her dixie on January 30, 2010, 12:19:29 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on January 27, 2010, 07:42:43 PM
first of all as someone born in the bronx and whose dad served in the US army for years i have very little time for US policy on israel, the israelies should be told to fock off and live or die with the palestinians. thats their problem and one just about every american i know has little or no interest in.
that however will be the only time i criticise america, everthing else the US does around the world is done for the greater good, sometimes it works sometimes not but the motivation is always for the greater good. if one country has to be a world policeman then thank God its the US, when the brits were a world power they plundered the place, if the Chinese got half a chance they'd do the same. . guys like dixie see nothing wrong in china, cuba, venezuela and other left wing piss pots and nothing right in the US
Magickingdom/Anthony I read this, and you make it very clear that you support the US killing machine.
correct me if i'm wrong?
let me see, i said
1) dont support US policy on Israel
2) i believe the US wants to promote the greater good.
3) sometimes the US gets it wrong despite having good intensions
4) i'd rather the US be world policeman over the british or chinese
5) guys like dixie see no good in the US
you get any of that when you read my post? no, and you just proved point 5. despite what was printed in front of you you read "Magickingdom/Anthony I read this, and you make it very clear that you support the US killing machine"
i give up
Quote from: Denn Forever on January 30, 2010, 12:15:06 PM
There are many areas in you community that you can volunteer.
I am involved is a play and the local hall commitee opens up and take money at the door. Local people help build the set, do stage management, prompting and of course people who act in the play. The people who are in charge of the local Foroige are organising the raffle.
We will be playing about 10 -12 times in the locality for charities in our area and for charities in the area that the play is on.
So there are lots of avenues for charity/volunteer work in your area so get out their and get involved.
Quote from: Zapatista on January 30, 2010, 12:22:15 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on January 30, 2010, 12:07:26 PM
absolutely zap and there are plenty organisations in ireland who rely on volunteers and get them. i'm not saying there is no volunteering done in ireland but there seems to be a culture of it in the states. i worked with about 15 other accountants in the states and every weekend 2 or 3 of them were doing some voluntary work. .
Could be. There is a lot of it done here which I think is often unappreciated. Much of the voluntary work in Ireland is done through religious organisation such as SVP and Trocaire. I think this is often overlooked due to the religious aspect. I can say that in my family of 6, 3 regularly do volunteer work from the GAA to the AA. The other 3 often tie in.
I don't know but I think the americans have a system involving 'extra curricular' work from an early age. This could be a factor.
there good points dean/zap, my dad spent a lot of his life volunteering with the gaa. what struck me in the states was the number of younger people volunteering, maybe thats catching on here now and i just dont see it. trocaire and svp do great work
however will be the only time i criticise america, everthing else the US does around the world is done for the greater good
This line says it all Magickingdom. Oh, and has it slipped your mind that you support the illegal war in Iraq among other places?
Quote from: magickingdom on January 30, 2010, 11:49:40 AM
well done bill gates, provides fantastic products at fantastic prices and then donates large chunks of the profits. individual americans donate more money than any other race on earth. the other thing about living in the states is the amount of voluntary work that gets done, i never knew anyone who volunteered for anything in ireland (maybe that says more about me!).
3 questions for you here on this post:
1. Can you back up your claims that the US donate the most per head of Capita?
2. When did Americans become a race?
3. Are you aware that Microsoft have been fined approx $2 billion for their unfair trading practices?
Was going to ask you to back up your claim that NO Irish person volunteers, but sure i'll not embarras you any futher.
Quote from: give her dixie on January 30, 2010, 12:58:27 PM
2. When did Americans become a race?
When they beat the USSR to the moon ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-D5XoNWFSQ
Folks I present the gorgeous George Galloway, yes the attention whore British Member of Parliament
(who never met a mirror he didn't like) that has this poor bastard Dixey tied up in knots with hatred and brain washing...
the lid has been lifted on where he gets his anti American ramblings and Rhetoric...how anyone is supposed to take
you seriously now escapes me!
And to think I get berated for the odd mere reference to a Fox news link on here ::)
:D Ah yes...it's MK who's digging the hole alright....
Sure maybe you are gorgeous George...lord knows you're fond of a bit of attention yourself :-*
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 30, 2010, 04:09:19 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-D5XoNWFSQ
Folks I present the gorgeous George Galloway, yes the attention whore British Member of Parliament
(who never met a mirror he didn't like) that has this poor b**tard Dixey tied up in knots with hatred and brain washing...
the lid has been lifted on where he gets his anti American ramblings and Rhetoric...how anyone is supposed to take
you seriously now escapes me!
And to think I get berated for the odd mere reference to a Fox news link on here ::)
:D Ah yes...it's MK who's digging the hole alright....
Sure maybe you are gorgeous George...lord knows you're fond of a bit of attention yourself :-*
sigh.
people like you do nothing to help america's image. rude, abrasive, arrogant, blinkered.
Quote from: Massey-135 on January 30, 2010, 04:18:57 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 30, 2010, 04:09:19 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-D5XoNWFSQ
Folks I present the gorgeous George Galloway, yes the attention whore British Member of Parliament
(who never met a mirror he didn't like) that has this poor b**tard Dixey tied up in knots with hatred and brain washing...
the lid has been lifted on where he gets his anti American ramblings and Rhetoric...how anyone is supposed to take
you seriously now escapes me!
And to think I get berated for the odd mere reference to a Fox news link on here ::)
:D Ah yes...it's MK who's digging the hole alright....
Sure maybe you are gorgeous George...lord knows you're fond of a bit of attention yourself :-*
sigh.
people like you do nothing to help america's image. rude, abrasive, arrogant, blinkered.
If you spend some time there and see what passes for journalism it might explain the delusions.
Maybe tyrones own forgot this one when George took the Senate apart in their sham on Capitol Hill.
At least the George I support hasn't killed anyone, unlike the million odd George Bush is responsible for killing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyyGoPerzWc part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lINNad6Njs part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym_fFjLlHz4&feature=related part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbuXfzSkB3A&feature=related part 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuCEfYAx4A0&feature=related part 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh6ZItn5ykY&feature=related part 6
Quote from: give her dixie on January 30, 2010, 07:00:55 PM
Maybe tyrones own forgot this one when George took the Senate apart in their sham on Capitol Hill.
At least the George I support hasn't killed anyone, unlike the million odd George Bush is responsible for killing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyyGoPerzWc part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lINNad6Njs part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym_fFjLlHz4&feature=related part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbuXfzSkB3A&feature=related part 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuCEfYAx4A0&feature=related part 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh6ZItn5ykY&feature=related part 6
Anything critical of the States' foreign policy is attacked here as hate or whatever. How about we offer the lads a chance to put the case for some of the US foreign policy?
For example: Why the War in Iraq is justified - Discuss
Quotedeclan, the US is not one state but a federation of 50 states each of which hold their own election for president. so its possible to not win the popular vote and still win the election by winning enough states by just a few votes. every state in the union has its own government. in the uk its possible to get 40% + of the vote and end up with 25% of the seats in parliament with first past the post
As other posters have said I'm aware of the electoral college system etc. I was just posing the original questions because of TO's arguments vis -a-vis "democratically" elected regimes around the world. Didn't get an answer either but anyway not to worry.
The more fascinating thing for me in the whole America Good/Bad thing is the level of misinformation around. A Newsweek poll out exposed "gaps" in America's knowledge of history and current events. Perhaps most alarmingly, 41% of Americans answered 'Yes' to the question "Do you think Saddam Hussein's regime in Iraq was directly involved in planning, financing, or carrying out the terrorist attacks of September 11th, 2001?
Quote from: Declan on January 30, 2010, 07:25:34 PM
Quotedeclan, the US is not one state but a federation of 50 states each of which hold their own election for president. so its possible to not win the popular vote and still win the election by winning enough states by just a few votes. every state in the union has its own government. in the uk its possible to get 40% + of the vote and end up with 25% of the seats in parliament with first past the post
As other posters have said I'm aware of the electoral college system etc. I was just posing the original questions because of TO's arguments vis -a-vis "democratically" elected regimes around the world. Didn't get an answer either but anyway not to worry.
The more fascinating thing for me in the whole America Good/Bad thing is the level of misinformation around. A Newsweek poll out exposed "gaps" in America's knowledge of history and current events. Perhaps most alarmingly, 41% of Americans answered 'Yes' to the question "Do you think Saddam Hussein's regime in Iraq was directly involved in planning, financing, or carrying out the terrorist attacks of September 11th, 2001?
americans knowledge of the rest of the world is on a par with the rest of the worlds knowledge of america, poor to average. i could name cities in america with populations of over 1m that people in europe couldnt pick out on a map.
Quote from: muppet on January 30, 2010, 04:26:05 PM
Quote from: Massey-135 on January 30, 2010, 04:18:57 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 30, 2010, 04:09:19 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-D5XoNWFSQ
Folks I present the gorgeous George Galloway, yes the attention whore British Member of Parliament
(who never met a mirror he didn't like) that has this poor b**tard Dixey tied up in knots with hatred and brain washing...
the lid has been lifted on where he gets his anti American ramblings and Rhetoric...how anyone is supposed to take
you seriously now escapes me!
And to think I get berated for the odd mere reference to a Fox news link on here ::)
:D Ah yes...it's MK who's digging the hole alright....
Sure maybe you are gorgeous George...lord knows you're fond of a bit of attention yourself :-*
sigh.
people like you do nothing to help america's image. rude, abrasive, arrogant, blinkered.
If you spend some time there and see what passes for journalism it might explain the delusions.
that so lazy, some of the worlds best newspapers are american
Quote from: give her dixie on January 30, 2010, 12:58:27 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on January 30, 2010, 11:49:40 AM
well done bill gates, provides fantastic products at fantastic prices and then donates large chunks of the profits. individual americans donate more money than any other race on earth. the other thing about living in the states is the amount of voluntary work that gets done, i never knew anyone who volunteered for anything in ireland (maybe that says more about me!).
3 questions for you here on this post:
1. Can you back up your claims that the US donate the most per head of Capita?
2. When did Americans become a race?
3. Are you aware that Microsoft have been fined approx $2 billion for their unfair trading practices?
Was going to ask you to back up your claim that NO Irish person volunteers, but sure i'll not embarras you any futher.
theres any number of them on the web, goggle them yourself
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=236671
Quote from: magickingdom on January 30, 2010, 08:47:59 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on January 30, 2010, 12:58:27 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on January 30, 2010, 11:49:40 AM
well done bill gates, provides fantastic products at fantastic prices and then donates large chunks of the profits. individual americans donate more money than any other race on earth. the other thing about living in the states is the amount of voluntary work that gets done, i never knew anyone who volunteered for anything in ireland (maybe that says more about me!).
3 questions for you here on this post:
1. Can you back up your claims that the US donate the most per head of Capita?
2. When did Americans become a race?
3. Are you aware that Microsoft have been fined approx $2 billion for their unfair trading practices?
Was going to ask you to back up your claim that NO Irish person volunteers, but sure i'll not embarras you any futher.
theres any number of them on the web, goggle them yourself
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=236671
To be honest, not the most compelling evidence there magickingdom. Anonymous people on a message board quoting figures from a link that doesn't work :-\
Quote from: magickingdom on January 30, 2010, 08:41:20 PM
Quote from: Declan on January 30, 2010, 07:25:34 PM
Quotedeclan, the US is not one state but a federation of 50 states each of which hold their own election for president. so its possible to not win the popular vote and still win the election by winning enough states by just a few votes. every state in the union has its own government. in the uk its possible to get 40% + of the vote and end up with 25% of the seats in parliament with first past the post
As other posters have said I'm aware of the electoral college system etc. I was just posing the original questions because of TO's arguments vis -a-vis "democratically" elected regimes around the world. Didn't get an answer either but anyway not to worry.
The more fascinating thing for me in the whole America Good/Bad thing is the level of misinformation around. A Newsweek poll out exposed "gaps" in America's knowledge of history and current events. Perhaps most alarmingly, 41% of Americans answered 'Yes' to the question "Do you think Saddam Hussein's regime in Iraq was directly involved in planning, financing, or carrying out the terrorist attacks of September 11th, 2001?
americans knowledge of the rest of the world is on a par with the rest of the worlds knowledge of america, poor to average. i could name cities in america with populations of over 1m that people in europe couldnt pick out on a map.
Indeed Magickingdom, Americans knowledge of the world knows no bounds. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJuNgBkloFE
Quote from: AFS on January 30, 2010, 09:03:29 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on January 30, 2010, 08:47:59 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on January 30, 2010, 12:58:27 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on January 30, 2010, 11:49:40 AM
well done bill gates, provides fantastic products at fantastic prices and then donates large chunks of the profits. individual americans donate more money than any other race on earth. the other thing about living in the states is the amount of voluntary work that gets done, i never knew anyone who volunteered for anything in ireland (maybe that says more about me!).
3 questions for you here on this post:
1. Can you back up your claims that the US donate the most per head of Capita?
2. When did Americans become a race?
3. Are you aware that Microsoft have been fined approx $2 billion for their unfair trading practices?
Was going to ask you to back up your claim that NO Irish person volunteers, but sure i'll not embarras you any futher.
theres any number of them on the web, goggle them yourself
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=236671
To be honest, not the most compelling evidence there magickingdom. Anonymous people on a message board quoting figures from a link that doesn't work :-\
try this one then, like i said theres any number of them on the web
http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=content.view&cpid=736
Quote from: give her dixie on January 30, 2010, 09:18:14 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on January 30, 2010, 08:41:20 PM
Quote from: Declan on January 30, 2010, 07:25:34 PM
Quotedeclan, the US is not one state but a federation of 50 states each of which hold their own election for president. so its possible to not win the popular vote and still win the election by winning enough states by just a few votes. every state in the union has its own government. in the uk its possible to get 40% + of the vote and end up with 25% of the seats in parliament with first past the post
As other posters have said I'm aware of the electoral college system etc. I was just posing the original questions because of TO's arguments vis -a-vis "democratically" elected regimes around the world. Didn't get an answer either but anyway not to worry.
The more fascinating thing for me in the whole America Good/Bad thing is the level of misinformation around. A Newsweek poll out exposed "gaps" in America's knowledge of history and current events. Perhaps most alarmingly, 41% of Americans answered 'Yes' to the question "Do you think Saddam Hussein's regime in Iraq was directly involved in planning, financing, or carrying out the terrorist attacks of September 11th, 2001?
americans knowledge of the rest of the world is on a par with the rest of the worlds knowledge of america, poor to average. i could name cities in america with populations of over 1m that people in europe couldnt pick out on a map.
Indeed Magickingdom, Americans knowledge of the world knows no bounds. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJuNgBkloFE
good laugh, i thought of you. . ;)
Quote from: magickingdom on January 30, 2010, 09:22:32 PM
Quote from: AFS on January 30, 2010, 09:03:29 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on January 30, 2010, 08:47:59 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on January 30, 2010, 12:58:27 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on January 30, 2010, 11:49:40 AM
well done bill gates, provides fantastic products at fantastic prices and then donates large chunks of the profits. individual americans donate more money than any other race on earth. the other thing about living in the states is the amount of voluntary work that gets done, i never knew anyone who volunteered for anything in ireland (maybe that says more about me!).
3 questions for you here on this post:
1. Can you back up your claims that the US donate the most per head of Capita?
2. When did Americans become a race?
3. Are you aware that Microsoft have been fined approx $2 billion for their unfair trading practices?
Was going to ask you to back up your claim that NO Irish person volunteers, but sure i'll not embarras you any futher.
theres any number of them on the web, goggle them yourself
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=236671
To be honest, not the most compelling evidence there magickingdom. Anonymous people on a message board quoting figures from a link that doesn't work :-\
try this one then, like i said theres any number of them on the web
http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=content.view&cpid=736
Still doesn't answer question 1?
Have you any answers for 2 & 3?
Quoteamericans knowledge of the rest of the world is on a par with the rest of the worlds knowledge of america, poor to average. i could name cities in america with populations of over 1m that people in europe couldnt pick out on a map.
I'm sure you could Magic but that wasn't really the point I was trying to make. It's a bit different not being able to pick our Des Moines/Warsaw depending on where you are and knowing so little about the largest terrorist attack on the States especially since the ramifications have been so severe.
Quote from: Massey-135 on January 30, 2010, 04:18:57 PM
sigh.
people like you do nothing to help america's image. rude, abrasive, arrogant, blinkered.
The disconnect from reality here is outrageous...... America's image,
America's imageWhat f**king image.... hardly the one that has been attacked and trampled on relentlessly
from the get go here ???
And do me a favor...if you're going to call out rude, abrasive, arrogant and blinkered opinions
at least
try not to be seen as blinkered in your findings
QuoteMaybe tyrones own forgot this one when George took the Senate apart in their sham on Capitol Hill.
:D :D I wonder how long exactly I've been any kind of fan of US senate..and how this would effect me in the slightest
...anyway they probably couldn't contain themselves Meowing and laughing at him under their breaths..
If that f**king eejit wasn't as dangerous with the views he incites he should be laughed out of everywhere he goes
along with what brain washed ideologues he has tailing him.... :-* Meow
Quote from: give her dixie on January 30, 2010, 09:29:58 PM
Still doesn't answer question 1?
Have you any answers for 2 & 3?
You've some f**king neck on ye ::)
Quote
Anything critical of the States' foreign policy is attacked here as hate or whatever. How about we offer the lads a chance to put the case for some of the US foreign policy?
Mmmmm....how about we offer you lads a chance to explain how exactly the hateful barbed comments directed at Universal Healthcare, the Florida vote Count or Microsoft's charity for that matter has any bearing whatsoever on US foreign policy and why ye simply can't mention the US in a positive light in any way shape or form............ ???... Haters!
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 30, 2010, 10:39:06 PM
Quote from: Massey-135 on January 30, 2010, 04:18:57 PM
sigh.
people like you do nothing to help america's image. rude, abrasive, arrogant, blinkered.
The disconnect from reality here is outrageous...... America's image, America's image
What f**king image.... hardly the one that has been attacked and trampled on relentlessly
from the get go here ???
And do me a favor...if you're going to call out rude, abrasive, arrogant and blinkered opinions
at least try not to be seen as blinkered in your findings
How have I been blinkered?
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 30, 2010, 11:16:41 PM
Quote
Anything critical of the States' foreign policy is attacked here as hate or whatever. How about we offer the lads a chance to put the case for some of the US foreign policy?
Mmmmm....how about we offer you lads a chance to explain how exactly the hateful barbed comments directed at Universal Healthcare, the Florida vote Count or Microsoft's charity for that matter has any bearing whatsoever on US foreign policy and why ye simply can't mention the US in a positive light in any way shape or form............ ???... Haters!
I have made some very positive comments on this very thread. But you more than anyone is programmed to deal with all incoming as hate and to open fire.
You were asked a simple question. Discuss Iraq. You won't do it and hide behind more nonsensical straw man arguments about healthcare etc.
Discuss Iraq. Do it, and stand up for your beliefs for once instead of attacking everyone else's.
I along with an awful lot of other people thought at the time that Saddam should be removed,
did it turn into a chaotic thunderfcuk yes.... But here's where we obviously disagree, in taking in to
consideration the colossal loss of life and hurt on our economy, like MK, I'm glad he's gone for reasons non other than he
was an extremely violent Stalinist like murdering Dictator and what's typical here is that none of ye will touch on the millions
of innocent people he himself was responsible for killing and maiming..... Na just the US toll ::)
..it was inevitable that it would come to a head be it the start of the last decade or the start of this one imo.
that said Muppet.... is there ever a good time in the eyes of a sympathizer to remove a murdering Stalinist from power?
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 31, 2010, 04:19:01 PM
I along with an awful lot of other people thought at the time that Saddam should be removed,
did it turn into a chaotic thunderfcuk yes.... But here's where we obviously disagree, in taking in to
consideration the colossal loss of life and hurt on our economy, like MK, I'm glad he's gone for reasons non other than he
was an extremely violent Stalinist like murdering Dictator and what's typical here is that none of ye will touch on the millions
of innocent people he himself was responsible for killing and maiming..... Na just the US toll ::)
..it was inevitable that it would come to a head be it the start of the last decade or the start of this one imo.
that said Muppet.... is there ever a good time in the eyes of a sympathizer to remove a murdering Stalinist from power?
tyrones own, we don't disagree with you on this point. I think you will find almost everyone on this board, and across the world are glad that George Bush is gone from office.
Ah.. you do still read my posts :-*
Sure Bush's killing spree is all that gets air time here, I simply asked why ye won't or can't talk about the millions
someone else besides Bush is responsible for ::) Meow
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqgate
Sure show us proof that Sadam killed millions?
Quote..it was inevitable that it would come to a head be it the start of the last decade or the start of this one imo.
Why so inevitable TO and not in any of the previous 20 years when he was in power?
Quote, in taking in to consideration the colossal loss of life and hurt on our economy, I'm glad he's gone
This confuses me a bit are you saying that on the balance of things and despite the fact that a lot of Iraqis are dead your glad he's gone because he was a despotic dictator - and that if you didn't have the massive military spend on it the invasion the US economy would be in better shape?
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 31, 2010, 04:19:01 PM
I along with an awful lot of other people thought at the time that Saddam should be removed,
Let's just start with this.
Was Saddam bad? Yes of course he was. But what gave the USA the right to ignore the UN (especially the evidence of Hans Blix who has been proven reliable) to annex the country?
What gave them the right to destroy Iraq's infrastructure? (with the blatantly obvious exception of it's oil production capability which it defended above all other priorities including it's own soldiers)
Why did it's civilian leaders ignore the advice of it's own military experts and disband the Iraqi army, while ignoring that armies arms stockpiles, to protect oil production, basically guaranteeing years of armed insurrections?
If you have good answers to the above, great, I'd love to be persuaded otherwise. If not do you accept that the world might reasonably take a dim view of the above?
Actually no Muppet..I know it goes against your logic but lets finish up on other point's before moving on;
Quotethat said Muppet.... is there ever a good time in the eyes of a sympathizer to remove a murdering Stalinist from power?
??
Quote
Why so inevitable TO and not in any of the previous 20 years when he was in power?
Because he had obviously exhausted his usefulness to them....
QuoteThis confuses me a bit are you saying that on the balance of things and despite the fact that a lot of Iraqis are dead your glad he's gone because he was a despotic dictator
I'd say that's fairly close yes!
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 31, 2010, 08:42:41 PM
Actually no Muppet..I know it goes against your logic but lets finish up on other point's before moving on;
Quotethat said Muppet.... is there ever a good time in the eyes of a sympathizer to remove a murdering Stalinist from power?
??
As usual you dodge specific questions and reply with a generalisation. And you can't even ask the question without trying to load it which sums up your debate nicely.
QuoteYou were asked a simple question. Discuss Iraq. You won't do it and hide behind more nonsensical straw man arguments about healthcare etc.
Discuss Iraq. Do it, and stand up for your beliefs for once instead of attacking everyone else's.
On more than one ocassion ye boy's have been asked for a take on Iran.. ye won't do it and hide behind various other topics that have no bearing!
Discuss Iran. Do it and stand up for your beliefs for once instead of attacking mine?
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 31, 2010, 08:52:00 PM
QuoteYou were asked a simple question. Discuss Iraq. You won't do it and hide behind more nonsensical straw man arguments about healthcare etc.
Discuss Iraq. Do it, and stand up for your beliefs for once instead of attacking everyone else's.
On more than one ocassion ye boy's have been asked for a take on Iran.. ye won't do it and hide behind various other topics that have no bearing!
Discuss Iran. Do it and stand up for your beliefs for once instead of attacking mine?
The US have been in Iraq for 7 years. They are not in Iran. See the difference?
Is it that terrifying to look at yourself?
Quote from: muppet on January 31, 2010, 08:51:17 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 31, 2010, 08:42:41 PM
Actually no Muppet..I know it goes against your logic but lets finish up on other point's before moving on;
Quotethat said Muppet.... is there ever a good time in the eyes of a sympathizer to remove a murdering Stalinist from power?
??
As usual you dodge specific questions and reply with a generalisation. And you can't even ask the question without trying to load it which sums up your debate nicely.
:D :D Absolutely anything but answer a fecking question....
"Loaded questions" me? FFS it's all ye gorgeous Georges have is loaded questions but
heavens forbid an answer, which sums up the lack of a backbone in you attempt at debate :-[
Muppet.... is there ever a good time in the eyes of a sympathizer to remove a murdering Stalinist from power?
Ah go on answer it...I'm not sure I can dumb down the question any further for you because A)you seem to support Meow
with his sympathetic view on Dictators and B) Stalin was a self proclaimed Idol of Saddams so I believe it's a perfectly good question
to ask someone like yourself,
"is there ever a good time in the eyes of a sympathizer to remove a murdering Stalinist from power"?
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 31, 2010, 09:09:16 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 31, 2010, 08:51:17 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 31, 2010, 08:42:41 PM
Actually no Muppet..I know it goes against your logic but lets finish up on other point's before moving on;
Quotethat said Muppet.... is there ever a good time in the eyes of a sympathizer to remove a murdering Stalinist from power?
??
As usual you dodge specific questions and reply with a generalisation. And you can't even ask the question without trying to load it which sums up your debate nicely.
:D :D Absolutely anything but answer a fecking question....
"Loaded questions" me? FFS it's all ye gorgeous Georges have is loaded questions but
heavens forbid an answer, which sums up the lack of a backbone in you attempt at debate :-[
You are the one calling everyone US haters. My criticism of the US is based, among other things, on the invasion of Iraq. You have the chance to explain to me why it was the right thing to do. But you hide behind the usual straw man arguments.
It can only be concluded that you, like me, don't believe the war in Iraq was justified.
Quote from: give her dixie on January 31, 2010, 04:33:21 PM
Sure show us proof that Sadam killed millions?
Sure thing George...right after you prove to all here how Bush is responsible for killing Millions :-\
Shucks...I know, it's another dang question but I can always hope :D
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 31, 2010, 09:18:21 PM
Muppet.... is there ever a good time in the eyes of a sympathizer to remove a murdering Stalinist from power?
Ah go on answer it...I'm not sure I can dumb down the question any further for you because A)you seem to support Meow
with his sympathetic view on Dictators and B) Stalin was a self proclaimed Idol of Saddams so I believe it's a perfectly good question
to ask someone like yourself,
"is there ever a good time in the eyes of a sympathizer to remove a murdering Stalinist from power"?
That is an idiotic and typically loaded question. It is up there with the playgrounds "na na na na na". ::)
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 31, 2010, 09:23:13 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on January 31, 2010, 04:33:21 PM
Sure show us proof that Sadam killed millions?
Sure thing George...right after you prove to all here how Bush is responsible for killing Millions :-\
Shucks...I know, it's another dang question but I can always hope :D
Hope that no one notices? Don't think it's working...........
Quote from: muppet on January 31, 2010, 09:26:24 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 31, 2010, 09:18:21 PM
Muppet.... is there ever a good time in the eyes of a sympathizer to remove a murdering Stalinist from power?
Ah go on answer it...I'm not sure I can dumb down the question any further for you because A)you seem to support Meow
with his sympathetic view on Dictators and B) Stalin was a self proclaimed Idol of Saddams so I believe it's a perfectly good question
to ask someone like yourself,
"is there ever a good time in the eyes of a sympathizer to remove a murdering Stalinist from power"?
That is an idiotic and typically loaded question. It is up there with the playgrounds "na na na na na". ::)
Why ??? it really is a very simple question....am I right to take from this then that it was OK for him to kill innocent Iraqi's in your eyes
just so long as it wasn't US forces doing it or is it that you simply don't like the answer you have to give
Quote from: muppet on January 31, 2010, 09:27:24 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 31, 2010, 09:23:13 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on January 31, 2010, 04:33:21 PM
Sure show us proof that Sadam killed millions?
Sure thing George...right after you prove to all here how Bush is responsible for killing Millions :-\
Shucks...I know, it's another dang question but I can always hope :D
Hope that no one notices? Don't think it's working...........
Surely you don't think for a minute that you're collective reluctance to answer any serious questions
put forth is being lost on anyone here ???
Fear not those who argue but those who dodge-T.O
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 31, 2010, 09:23:13 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on January 31, 2010, 04:33:21 PM
Sure show us proof that Sadam killed millions?
Sure thing George...right after you prove to all here how Bush is responsible for killing Millions :-\
Shucks...I know, it's another dang question but I can always hope :D
So, you can't prove that Sadam killed millions then?
Proof that Bush is responsible for murdering over a million is the fact that he invaded Iraq illegally.
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 31, 2010, 09:33:39 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 31, 2010, 09:26:24 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 31, 2010, 09:18:21 PM
Muppet.... is there ever a good time in the eyes of a sympathizer to remove a murdering Stalinist from power?
Ah go on answer it...I'm not sure I can dumb down the question any further for you because A)you seem to support Meow
with his sympathetic view on Dictators and B) Stalin was a self proclaimed Idol of Saddams so I believe it's a perfectly good question
to ask someone like yourself,
"is there ever a good time in the eyes of a sympathizer to remove a murdering Stalinist from power"?
That is an idiotic and typically loaded question. It is up there with the playgrounds "na na na na na". ::)
Why ??? it really is a very simple question....am I right to take from this then that it was OK for him to kill innocent Iraqi's in your eyes
just so long as it wasn't US forces doing it or is it that you simply don't like the answer you have to give
No you certainly are not.
Please show how you came to that ridiculous conclusion?
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 31, 2010, 09:36:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 31, 2010, 09:27:24 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 31, 2010, 09:23:13 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on January 31, 2010, 04:33:21 PM
Sure show us proof that Sadam killed millions?
Sure thing George...right after you prove to all here how Bush is responsible for killing Millions :-\
Shucks...I know, it's another dang question but I can always hope :D
Hope that no one notices? Don't think it's working...........
Surely you don't think for a minute that you're collective reluctance to answer any serious questions
put forth is being lost on anyone here ???
Fear not those who argue but those who dodge
-T.O
You aren't asking a question. You are telling an answer and trying to get me to agree with it. See?
QuoteProof that Bush is responsible for murdering over a million is the fact that he invaded Iraq illegally.
But George.... there hasn't been a million innocent people killed in Iraq ???...please do explain!
Quote from: muppet on January 31, 2010, 09:38:42 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 31, 2010, 09:33:39 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 31, 2010, 09:26:24 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 31, 2010, 09:18:21 PM
Muppet.... is there ever a good time in the eyes of a sympathizer to remove a murdering Stalinist from power?
Ah go on answer it...I'm not sure I can dumb down the question any further for you because A)you seem to support Meow
with his sympathetic view on Dictators and B) Stalin was a self proclaimed Idol of Saddams so I believe it's a perfectly good question
to ask someone like yourself,
"is there ever a good time in the eyes of a sympathizer to remove a murdering Stalinist from power"?
That is an idiotic and typically loaded question. It is up there with the playgrounds "na na na na na". ::)
Why ??? it really is a very simple question....am I right to take from this then that it was OK for him to kill innocent Iraqi's in your eyes
just so long as it wasn't US forces doing it or is it that you simply don't like the answer you have to give
No you certainly are not.
Please show how you came to that ridiculous conclusion?
Right so we're getting warmer then.... if I'm wrong, where am i wrong?
QuoteYou aren't asking a question. You are telling an answer and trying to get me to agree with it. See?
you mean like this;
QuoteIt can only be concluded that you, like me, don't believe the war in Iraq was justified.
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 31, 2010, 09:42:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 31, 2010, 09:38:42 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 31, 2010, 09:33:39 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 31, 2010, 09:26:24 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 31, 2010, 09:18:21 PM
Muppet.... is there ever a good time in the eyes of a sympathizer to remove a murdering Stalinist from power?
Ah go on answer it...I'm not sure I can dumb down the question any further for you because A)you seem to support Meow
with his sympathetic view on Dictators and B) Stalin was a self proclaimed Idol of Saddams so I believe it's a perfectly good question
to ask someone like yourself,
"is there ever a good time in the eyes of a sympathizer to remove a murdering Stalinist from power"?
That is an idiotic and typically loaded question. It is up there with the playgrounds "na na na na na". ::)
Why ??? it really is a very simple question....am I right to take from this then that it was OK for him to kill innocent Iraqi's in your eyes
just so long as it wasn't US forces doing it or is it that you simply don't like the answer you have to give
No you certainly are not.
Please show how you came to that ridiculous conclusion?
Right so we're getting warmer then.... if I'm wrong, where am i wrong?
You haven't the confidence to present a rational logical case for the US action in Iraq.
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 31, 2010, 09:44:25 PM
QuoteYou aren't asking a question. You are telling an answer and trying to get me to agree with it. See?
you mean like this;
QuoteIt can only be concluded that you, like me, don't believe the war in Iraq was justified.
I invited you to discuss Iraq. You respond with rhetorical questions, straw man arguments and dogma.
I have made my case and stand over my conclusion.
QuoteYou haven't the confidence to present a rational logical case for the US action in Iraq.
FFS I've stuck my neck out so many times here...it's just that neither of you have the substance or the the balls for that matter
to take the swing!
What case and how could there be a conclusion with so many unanswered questions ???
ye wouldn't be claiming a premature victory here now would you? ;)
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 31, 2010, 09:48:13 PM
QuoteYou haven't the confidence to present a rational logical case for the US action in Iraq.
FFS I've stuck my neck out so many times here...it's just that neither of you have the substance or the the balls for that matter
to take the swing!
No you haven't.
You spout on sensationally about self confessed Stalinists and shed crocodile tears for a million dead Iraqis killed by Saddam but justify the 100,000 dead Iraqis killed by Bush.
That is not debating it is ranting.
When pushed on any issue you try to jump off on tangents such as Iran which is actually poetic because I believe when the NeoCons get back into power they will go into Iran.
They, like you, have learned nothing from Vietnam or Iraq and will do it again.
QuoteYou spout on sensationally about self confessed Stalinists
Really .....? are you trying to imply that saddam didn't idolize stalin
Quoteshed crocodile tears for a million dead Iraqis killed by Saddam but justify the 100,000 dead Iraqis killed by Bush.
Weather I do or do not is irrelevant to the fact you still don't seem to have a problem with the innocent people he killed just the one's
caught up in Bush's invasion!
QuoteWhen pushed on any issue you try to jump off on tangents such as Iran which is actually poetic because I believe when the NeoCons get back into power they will go into Iran.
So Iran is a Tangent now :o...the fact that the
Democratically Elected ;) Holocaust denier want's to blow Israel off the map and is thumbing his nose to the United Nations that you boy's revere around here so much with his push for nuclear armament.
Yes history is indeed repeating itself alright....so since Bush obviously dropped the ball with a supposed threat at the time
How should we proceed now with Iran?? or is that all propaganda from the US also ::)
Quote from: muppet on January 31, 2010, 09:47:26 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 31, 2010, 09:44:25 PM
QuoteYou aren't asking a question. You are telling an answer and trying to get me to agree with it. See?
you mean like this;
QuoteIt can only be concluded that you, like me, don't believe the war in Iraq was justified.
I invited you to discuss Iraq. You respond with rhetorical questions, straw man arguments and dogma.
I have made my case and stand over my conclusion.
if you want to discuss iraq why dont you open a thread on it?
Quote from: Tyrones own on January 31, 2010, 10:11:05 PM
QuoteYou spout on sensationally about self confessed Stalinists
Really .....? are you trying to imply that saddam didn't idolize stalin
I don't care if he idolised sex with rabbits. Hussein, Stalin, Hitler or NeoCon blood thirsty murderous bastards all of them.
Quoteshed crocodile tears for a million dead Iraqis killed by Saddam but justify the 100,000 dead Iraqis killed by Bush.
Quote
Weather I do or do not is irrelevant to the fact you still don't seem to have a problem with the innocent people he killed just the one's
caught up in Bush's invasion!
I have a problem with all the innocent killed in Iraq. You are the one defending the killing of 100,000 of them. I am defending none of those deaths. As usual you assume any criticism of the States must be support for the complete opposite.
QuoteWhen pushed on any issue you try to jump off on tangents such as Iran which is actually poetic because I believe when the NeoCons get back into power they will go into Iran.
QuoteSo Iran is a Tangent now :o...the fact that the Democratically Elected ;) Holocaust denier want's to blow Israel off the map and is thumbing his nose to the United Nations that you boy's revere around here so much with his push for nuclear armament.
Yes history is indeed repeating itself alright....so since Bush obviously dropped the ball with a supposed threat at the time
How should we proceed now with Iran?? or is that all propaganda from the US also ::)
You mean like the Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq? Israel has a massive nuclear arsenal thanks to the States. The chances of Iran attacking Israel are about the same as Ireland invading Germany.
I think the world would be a far safer place if middle eastern countries were armed a bit more equally. Israel might refrain from bravely attacking stone age people with their F-16s and the US might avoid bravely attacking other bronze age societies.
But of course any opinion that doesn't want Iran & Iraq
liberated razed to the ground must belong to a US hater.
My quotation thingy is on the blink.
So you think that the world would be a safer place if all middle eastern countries had roughly the same amount of weapons capability, are you on f**king drugs or something.
Of course no middle eastern countries have ever went to war with Israel before. ::)
Quote from: stew on February 01, 2010, 05:07:53 PM
My quotation thingy is on the blink.
So you think that the world would be a safer place if all middle eastern countries had roughly the same amount of weapons capability, are you on f**king drugs or something.
Of course no middle eastern countries have ever went to war with Israel before. ::)
I would think the world would be a safer place if one particularly aggressive regime, surrounded by backward countries, wasn't armed to the teeth with nuclear weapons and F-16s, yes.
I didn't say it would stop all wars but then this is more of the typical NeoCon style of argument. If I said that I thought Rooney was a good player the US response would accuse me of wanting to bomb Eastlands.
QuoteYou mean like the Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq? Israel has a massive nuclear arsenal thanks to the States. The chances of Iran attacking Israel are about the same as Ireland invading Germany.
I'm not aware of any reports that Israel has warned and is committed to blowing anyone off the map with said WMD's but hey, feel free to enlighten us here!
QuoteI think the world would be a far safer place if middle eastern countries were armed a bit more equally. Israel might refrain from bravely attacking stone age people with their F-16s and the US might avoid bravely attacking other bronze age societies.
That's the kind of dangerous passive thinking that will get us all killed.... how anyone could be seen to justify Ahmadinejad getting his hands on nuclear weapons defies logic...
QuoteBut of course any opinion that doesn't want Iran & Iraq liberated razed to the ground must belong to a US hater.
No, of course not... Sure Iran's own citizens don't want there country razed to the ground either and are willing to die for the cause by being sentenced to Death by the democracy that is alive and well in Iran,
are they western propagandists also?
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 01, 2010, 05:52:37 PM
QuoteYou mean like the Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq? Israel has a massive nuclear arsenal thanks to the States. The chances of Iran attacking Israel are about the same as Ireland invading Germany.
I'm not aware of any reports that Israel has warned and is committed to blowing anyone off the map with said WMD's but hey, feel free to enlighten us here!
QuoteI think the world would be a far safer place if middle eastern countries were armed a bit more equally. Israel might refrain from bravely attacking stone age people with their F-16s and the US might avoid bravely attacking other bronze age societies.
That's the kind of dangerous passive thinking that will get us all killed.... how anyone could be seen to justify Ahmadinejad getting his hands on nuclear weapons defies logic...
QuoteBut of course any opinion that doesn't want Iran & Iraq liberated razed to the ground must belong to a US hater.
No, of course not... Sure Iran's own citizens don't want there country razed to the ground either and are willing to die for the cause by being sentenced to Death by the democracy that is alive and well in Iran,
are they western propagandists also?
Where did I say to give Iran nuclear weapons. 'Evening things out' could also be achieved by stopping the disproportionate arming of Israel.
The death sentence is barbaric and centuries out of date, you'll get no argument there from me.
And as for Iran's version of democracy, it is pathetic, but for the US of all people to champion democracy and question elections.......staggering hypocrisy as usual.
The usual US policy of 'my enemy's enemy is my friend' has always been disastrous but knock yourself out. Remember Saddam & Osama were friends of the US but it's not as if you learn anything is it?
Quote from: muppet on February 01, 2010, 05:26:29 PM
Quote from: stew on February 01, 2010, 05:07:53 PM
My quotation thingy is on the blink.
So you think that the world would be a safer place if all middle eastern countries had roughly the same amount of weapons capability, are you on f**king drugs or something.
Of course no middle eastern countries have ever went to war with Israel before. ::)
I would think the world would be a safer place if one particularly aggressive regime, surrounded by backward countries, wasn't armed to the teeth with nuclear weapons and F-16s, yes.
I didn't say it would stop all wars but then this is more of the typical NeoCon style of argument. If I said that I thought Rooney was a good player the US response would accuse me of wanting to bomb Eastlands.
I wish Israel didnt have nuclear weapons but I am glad they have weapons to defend themselves, they have the right to defend themselves as much as anyone else. I am disgusted by their treatment of the Palestinians however I feel strongly that if they had the same technological capability as
their not so friendly neighbours they would cease to exists as a Country, I suspect you do also, which makes your desire to level the playing field so to speak interesting.
Quote from: stew on February 01, 2010, 06:25:15 PM
I wish Israel didnt have nuclear weapons but I am glad they have weapons to defend themselves, they have the right to defend themselves as much as anyone else. I am disgusted by their treatment of the Palestinians however I feel strongly that if they had the same technological capability as
their not so friendly neighbours they would cease to exists as a Country, I suspect you do also, which makes your desire to level the playing field so to speak interesting.
India and Packistan have a level playing field which seems to keep them from doing to eachother what Israel are doing to Palestine.
Russia and the USA are another example.
Quote from: stew on February 01, 2010, 06:25:15 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 01, 2010, 05:26:29 PM
Quote from: stew on February 01, 2010, 05:07:53 PM
My quotation thingy is on the blink.
So you think that the world would be a safer place if all middle eastern countries had roughly the same amount of weapons capability, are you on f**king drugs or something.
Of course no middle eastern countries have ever went to war with Israel before. ::)
I would think the world would be a safer place if one particularly aggressive regime, surrounded by backward countries, wasn't armed to the teeth with nuclear weapons and F-16s, yes.
I didn't say it would stop all wars but then this is more of the typical NeoCon style of argument. If I said that I thought Rooney was a good player the US response would accuse me of wanting to bomb Eastlands.
I wish Israel didnt have nuclear weapons but I am glad they have weapons to defend themselves, they have the right to defend themselves as much as anyone else. I am disgusted by their treatment of the Palestinians however I feel strongly that if they had the same technological capability as
their not so friendly neighbours they would cease to exists as a Country, I suspect you do also, which makes your desire to level the playing field so to speak interesting.
How dare you you f**king tosser. Every post I make here is in defence of lives whether it be American, Iraqi or death row inmates.
Quote from: muppet on February 01, 2010, 06:31:17 PM
Quote from: stew on February 01, 2010, 06:25:15 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 01, 2010, 05:26:29 PM
Quote from: stew on February 01, 2010, 05:07:53 PM
My quotation thingy is on the blink.
So you think that the world would be a safer place if all middle eastern countries had roughly the same amount of weapons capability, are you on f**king drugs or something.
Of course no middle eastern countries have ever went to war with Israel before. ::)
I would think the world would be a safer place if one particularly aggressive regime, surrounded by backward countries, wasn't armed to the teeth with nuclear weapons and F-16s, yes.
I didn't say it would stop all wars but then this is more of the typical NeoCon style of argument. If I said that I thought Rooney was a good player the US response would accuse me of wanting to bomb Eastlands.
I wish Israel didnt have nuclear weapons but I am glad they have weapons to defend themselves, they have the right to defend themselves as much as anyone else. I am disgusted by their treatment of the Palestinians however I feel strongly that if they had the same technological capability as
their not so friendly neighbours they would cease to exists as a Country, I suspect you do also, which makes your desire to level the playing field so to speak interesting.
How dare you you f**king t**ser. Every post I make here is in defence of lives whether it be American, Iraqi or death row inmates.
How dare I what? how dare I find it strange that if the scenario you suggested actually came to pass it would in all likelyhood mean the destruction of Israel?
Is it naive of me to think that you are not aware that there are those in the Arab world that want to kill each and every Israeli?
I dont think so
Quote from: stew on February 01, 2010, 06:39:45 PM
Is it naive of me to think that you are not aware that there are those in the Arab world that want to kill each and every Israeli?
I dont think so
The reverse is true aswell. Israel are actively killing off the Palestinians. Israel has friends in the Arab world too.
Quote from: stew on February 01, 2010, 06:39:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 01, 2010, 06:31:17 PM
Quote from: stew on February 01, 2010, 06:25:15 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 01, 2010, 05:26:29 PM
Quote from: stew on February 01, 2010, 05:07:53 PM
My quotation thingy is on the blink.
So you think that the world would be a safer place if all middle eastern countries had roughly the same amount of weapons capability, are you on f**king drugs or something.
Of course no middle eastern countries have ever went to war with Israel before. ::)
I would think the world would be a safer place if one particularly aggressive regime, surrounded by backward countries, wasn't armed to the teeth with nuclear weapons and F-16s, yes.
I didn't say it would stop all wars but then this is more of the typical NeoCon style of argument. If I said that I thought Rooney was a good player the US response would accuse me of wanting to bomb Eastlands.
I wish Israel didnt have nuclear weapons but I am glad they have weapons to defend themselves, they have the right to defend themselves as much as anyone else. I am disgusted by their treatment of the Palestinians however I feel strongly that if they had the same technological capability as
their not so friendly neighbours they would cease to exists as a Country, I suspect you do also, which makes your desire to level the playing field so to speak interesting.
How dare you you f**king t**ser. Every post I make here is in defence of lives whether it be American, Iraqi or death row inmates.
How dare I what? how dare I find it strange that if the scenario you suggested actually came to pass it would in all likelyhood mean the destruction of Israel?
Is it naive of me to think that you are not aware that there are those in the Arab world that want to kill each and every Israeli?
I dont think so
Stew, who exactly in the Arab world wants to kill each and every Israeli?
Terrorist factions in the Arab world have made statements to that effect. Some fairly well known ones for that matter. ::)
Could you be more specific?
Quote from: stew on February 01, 2010, 06:39:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 01, 2010, 06:31:17 PM
Quote from: stew on February 01, 2010, 06:25:15 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 01, 2010, 05:26:29 PM
Quote from: stew on February 01, 2010, 05:07:53 PM
My quotation thingy is on the blink.
So you think that the world would be a safer place if all middle eastern countries had roughly the same amount of weapons capability, are you on f**king drugs or something.
Of course no middle eastern countries have ever went to war with Israel before. ::)
I would think the world would be a safer place if one particularly aggressive regime, surrounded by backward countries, wasn't armed to the teeth with nuclear weapons and F-16s, yes.
I didn't say it would stop all wars but then this is more of the typical NeoCon style of argument. If I said that I thought Rooney was a good player the US response would accuse me of wanting to bomb Eastlands.
I wish Israel didnt have nuclear weapons but I am glad they have weapons to defend themselves, they have the right to defend themselves as much as anyone else. I am disgusted by their treatment of the Palestinians however I feel strongly that if they had the same technological capability as
their not so friendly neighbours they would cease to exists as a Country, I suspect you do also, which makes your desire to level the playing field so to speak interesting.
How dare you you f**king t**ser. Every post I make here is in defence of lives whether it be American, Iraqi or death row inmates.
How dare I what? how dare I find it strange that if the scenario you suggested actually came to pass it would in all likelyhood mean the destruction of Israel?
Is it naive of me to think that you are not aware that there are those in the Arab world that want to kill each and every Israeli?
I dont think so
You suggested that I want Israel destroyed you p***k.
Every post I make here is as a pacifist. You are the Duyba supporting war mongerer.
From Haiti to Palestine - amazing how any discussion on US foreign policy inevitably ends up here. Better men than me or you have tried to get to the bottom of it and after last week it's looking as bleak as ever.
"Palestine" is no more. Call it a "peace process" or a "road map"; blame it on Barack Obama's weakness, his pathetic, childish admission - like an optimistic doctor returning a sick child to its parents without hope of recovery - that a Middle East peace was "more difficult" to reach than he imagined.
But the dream of a "two-state" Israeli-Palestinian solution, a security-drenched but noble settlement to decades of warfare between Israelis and Palestinians is as good as dead.
Both the United States and Europe now stand idly by while the Israeli government effectively destroys any hope of a Palestinian state; even as you read these words, Israel's bulldozers and demolition orders are destroying the last chance of peace; not only in the symbolic centre of Jerusalem itself but - strategically, far more important - in 60 per cent of the vast, biblical lands of the occupied West Bank, in that largest sector in which Jews now outnumber Muslims two to one.
This majority of the West Bank - known under the defunct Oslo Agreement's sinister sobriquet as "Area C" - has already fallen under an Israeli rule which amounts to apartheid by paper: a set of Israeli laws which prohibit almost all Palestinian building or village improvements, which shamelessly smash down Palestinian homes for which permits are impossible to obtain, ordering the destruction of even restored Palestinian sewage systems. Israeli colonists have no such problems; which is why 300,000 Israelis now live - in 220 settlements which are all internationally illegal - in the richest and most fertile of the Palestinian occupied lands.
When Obama's elderly envoy George Mitchell headed home in humiliation this week, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu celebrated his departure by planting trees in two of the three largest Israeli colonies around Jerusalem. With these trees at Gush Etzion and Ma'aleh Adumim, he said, he was sending "a clear message that we are here. We will stay here. We are planning and we are building." These two huge settlements, along with that of Ariel to the north of Jerusalem, were an "indisputable part of Israel forever."
It was Netanyahu's victory celebration over the upstart American President who had dared to challenge Israel's power not only in the Middle East but in America itself.
I dont see how I did that muppet, I said I found it interesting thats all.
I am not a war monger and I would have voted for W, the alternative was worse, when W ran for re-election I consider those candidates to be the two worst candidates to run at the same time in American history.
You need to mind that temper of yours muppet, it might get you into trouble someday.
i dont support the US policy towards israel and think it has been bad for america in a wider world context. israel needs to start respecting un resolutions, stand on its own 2 feet and live or die with the palestinians (dont worry they'll chose to live). i dont see any great love affair with israel in the american public and fail to understand the US gov position, even clinton bought into it more than most.
Quote from: stew on February 01, 2010, 07:12:18 PM
I dont see how I did that muppet, I said I found it interesting thats all.
I am not a war monger and I would have voted for W, the alternative was worse, when W ran for re-election I consider those candidates to be the two worst candidates to run at the same time in American history.
You need to mind that temper of yours muppet, it might get you into trouble someday.
How typical. A threat. ::)
But of course it arrives after I declare myself a pacifist. Now if I actaully had any weapons no doubt you would negotiate.
Quote from: magickingdom on February 01, 2010, 07:17:15 PM
i dont support the US policy towards israel and think it has been bad for america in a wider world context. israel needs to start respecting un resolutions, stand on its own 2 feet and live or die with the palestinians (dont worry they'll chose to live). i dont see any great love affair with israel in the american public and fail to understand the US gov position, even clinton bought into it more than most.
Are you now a US hater?
Quote from: muppet on February 01, 2010, 07:17:52 PM
Quote from: stew on February 01, 2010, 07:12:18 PM
I dont see how I did that muppet, I said I found it interesting thats all.
I am not a war monger and I would have voted for W, the alternative was worse, when W ran for re-election I consider those candidates to be the two worst candidates to run at the same time in American history.
You need to mind that temper of yours muppet, it might get you into trouble someday.
How typical. A threat. ::)
But of course it arrives after I declare myself a pacifist. Now if I actaully had any weapons no doubt you would negotiate.
WTF, that is not a threat, it was never meant as a threat but it is interesting that you took it as one. ;)
Quote from: muppet on February 01, 2010, 07:19:38 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on February 01, 2010, 07:17:15 PM
i dont support the US policy towards israel and think it has been bad for america in a wider world context. israel needs to start respecting un resolutions, stand on its own 2 feet and live or die with the palestinians (dont worry they'll chose to live). i dont see any great love affair with israel in the american public and fail to understand the US gov position, even clinton bought into it more than most.
Are you now a US hater?
In your world muppet is it actually possible for people to disagree with their nations foreign policy without actually hating it?
Americans can and do disagree with their countries foreign policy on a regular basis, they still consider themselves loyal Americans. Yes muppet that is possible in America.
Quote from: stew on February 01, 2010, 07:27:34 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 01, 2010, 07:19:38 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on February 01, 2010, 07:17:15 PM
i dont support the US policy towards israel and think it has been bad for america in a wider world context. israel needs to start respecting un resolutions, stand on its own 2 feet and live or die with the palestinians (dont worry they'll chose to live). i dont see any great love affair with israel in the american public and fail to understand the US gov position, even clinton bought into it more than most.
Are you now a US hater?
In your world muppet is it actually possible for people to disagree with their nations foreign policy without actually hating it?
Americans can and do disagree with their countries foreign policy on a regular basis, they still consider themselves loyal Americans. Yes muppet that is possible in America.
And you don't think he was being sarcastic at all? ;)
Quote from: muppet on February 01, 2010, 07:19:38 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on February 01, 2010, 07:17:15 PM
i dont support the US policy towards israel and think it has been bad for america in a wider world context. israel needs to start respecting un resolutions, stand on its own 2 feet and live or die with the palestinians (dont worry they'll chose to live). i dont see any great love affair with israel in the american public and fail to understand the US gov position, even clinton bought into it more than most.
Are you now a US hater?
you really are been narky on this thread. . your reaction to this and stew is way over the top.
Quote from: Arthur_Friend on February 01, 2010, 07:30:22 PM
Quote from: stew on February 01, 2010, 07:27:34 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 01, 2010, 07:19:38 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on February 01, 2010, 07:17:15 PM
i dont support the US policy towards israel and think it has been bad for america in a wider world context. israel needs to start respecting un resolutions, stand on its own 2 feet and live or die with the palestinians (dont worry they'll chose to live). i dont see any great love affair with israel in the american public and fail to understand the US gov position, even clinton bought into it more than most.
Are you now a US hater?
In your world muppet is it actually possible for people to disagree with their nations foreign policy without actually hating it?
Americans can and do disagree with their countries foreign policy on a regular basis, they still consider themselves loyal Americans. Yes muppet that is possible in America.
And you don't think he was being sarcastic at all? ;)
i didnt
Quote from: magickingdom on February 01, 2010, 07:30:44 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 01, 2010, 07:19:38 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on February 01, 2010, 07:17:15 PM
i dont support the US policy towards israel and think it has been bad for america in a wider world context. israel needs to start respecting un resolutions, stand on its own 2 feet and live or die with the palestinians (dont worry they'll chose to live). i dont see any great love affair with israel in the american public and fail to understand the US gov position, even clinton bought into it more than most.
Are you now a US hater?
you really are been narky on this thread. . your reaction to this and stew is way over the top.
I was exploring the situation whereby you called people who disagreed with US policy - US haters - and then you announce you disagree with US policy.
Where does that leave you then?
Quote from: muppet on February 01, 2010, 07:35:15 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on February 01, 2010, 07:30:44 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 01, 2010, 07:19:38 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on February 01, 2010, 07:17:15 PM
i dont support the US policy towards israel and think it has been bad for america in a wider world context. israel needs to start respecting un resolutions, stand on its own 2 feet and live or die with the palestinians (dont worry they'll chose to live). i dont see any great love affair with israel in the american public and fail to understand the US gov position, even clinton bought into it more than most.
Are you now a US hater?
you really are been narky on this thread. . your reaction to this and stew is way over the top.
I was exploring the situation whereby you called people who disagreed with US policy - US haters - and then you announce you disagree with US policy.
Where does that leave you then?
i'm good, its covered by the first amendment. . free speech
Quote from: magickingdom on February 01, 2010, 07:44:59 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 01, 2010, 07:35:15 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on February 01, 2010, 07:30:44 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 01, 2010, 07:19:38 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on February 01, 2010, 07:17:15 PM
i dont support the US policy towards israel and think it has been bad for america in a wider world context. israel needs to start respecting un resolutions, stand on its own 2 feet and live or die with the palestinians (dont worry they'll chose to live). i dont see any great love affair with israel in the american public and fail to understand the US gov position, even clinton bought into it more than most.
Are you now a US hater?
you really are been narky on this thread. . your reaction to this and stew is way over the top.
I was exploring the situation whereby you called people who disagreed with US policy - US haters - and then you announce you disagree with US policy.
Where does that leave you then?
i'm good, its covered by the first amendment. . free speech
You called those who criticised US foreign policy, US haters. So as you now criticised US foreign policy either you are a hypocrite or a US hater. Which is it?
How about a flip flopper?
Quote from: muppet on February 01, 2010, 07:47:23 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on February 01, 2010, 07:44:59 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 01, 2010, 07:35:15 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on February 01, 2010, 07:30:44 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 01, 2010, 07:19:38 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on February 01, 2010, 07:17:15 PM
i dont support the US policy towards israel and think it has been bad for america in a wider world context. israel needs to start respecting un resolutions, stand on its own 2 feet and live or die with the palestinians (dont worry they'll chose to live). i dont see any great love affair with israel in the american public and fail to understand the US gov position, even clinton bought into it more than most.
Are you now a US hater?
you really are been narky on this thread. . your reaction to this and stew is way over the top.
I was exploring the situation whereby you called people who disagreed with US policy - US haters - and then you announce you disagree with US policy.
Where does that leave you then?
i'm good, its covered by the first amendment. . free speech
You called those who criticised US foreign policy, US haters. So as you now criticised US foreign policy either you are a hypocrite or a US hater. Which is it?
when did i say that those who criticise US foreign policy are US haters?
Quote
How dare you you f**king t**se.
Jaysus go easy on him Stew he can only spout as quick as Dixey can read and quote more of Galloway's hate for him.... Speaking of Dixey...where'd he fcuk off to... You wouldn't think he would have made it so blatantly obvious that once his cover was blown that he worships at the alter of gorgeous George he'd go into hiding through embarrassment....Meow :-*
Quote
Every post I make here is in defence of lives whether it be American, Iraqi or death row inmates.
:D Yea when they're American lives...
the Fcukers shouldn't have been there, when they're Iraq lives...
It's those Bastard yanks, when it's death row...
it's those Bastard YanksNo need to explain muppet, everyone is on to both of ye at this point :-[
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 01, 2010, 11:06:19 PM
Quote
How dare you you f**king t**se.
Jaysus go easy on him Stew he can only spout as quick as Dixey can read and quote more of Galloway's hate for him.... Speaking of Dixey...where'd he fcuk off to... You wouldn't think he would have made it so blatantly obvious that once his cover was blown that he worships at the alter of gorgeous George he'd go into hiding through embarrassment....Meow :-*
Quote
Every post I make here is in defence of lives whether it be American, Iraqi or death row inmates.
:D Yea when they're American lives...the Fcukers shouldn't have been there, when they're Iraq lives...It's those b**tard yanks, when it's death row...it's those b**tard Yanks
No need to explain muppet, everyone is on to both of ye at this point :-[
Touche. ;)
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 01, 2010, 11:06:19 PM
Quote
How dare you you f**king t**se.
Jaysus go easy on him Stew he can only spout as quick as Dixey can read and quote more of Galloway's hate for him.... Speaking of Dixey...where'd he fcuk off to... You wouldn't think he would have made it so blatantly obvious that once his cover was blown that he worships at the alter of gorgeous George he'd go into hiding through embarrassment....Meow :-*
Quote
Every post I make here is in defence of lives whether it be American, Iraqi or death row inmates.
:D Yea when they're American lives...the Fcukers shouldn't have been there, when they're Iraq lives...It's those b**tard yanks, when it's death row...it's those b**tard Yanks
No need to explain muppet, everyone is on to both of ye at this point :-[
He didn't say any of those things.
Quote from: stew on February 02, 2010, 12:25:58 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 01, 2010, 11:06:19 PM
Quote
How dare you you f**king t**se.
Jaysus go easy on him Stew he can only spout as quick as Dixey can read and quote more of Galloway's hate for him.... Speaking of Dixey...where'd he fcuk off to... You wouldn't think he would have made it so blatantly obvious that once his cover was blown that he worships at the alter of gorgeous George he'd go into hiding through embarrassment....Meow :-*
Quote
Every post I make here is in defence of lives whether it be American, Iraqi or death row inmates.
:D Yea when they're American lives...the Fcukers shouldn't have been there, when they're Iraq lives...It's those b**tard yanks, when it's death row...it's those b**tard Yanks
No need to explain muppet, everyone is on to both of ye at this point :-[
Touche. ;)
Therefore.......hardly.
Arthur or are you really Muppet or Dixey :-* When you grow up and graduate past being able to string together
more than one sentence in you miserable attempt at not looking and sounding like a smart ass
... and we need any further shite out of ye.. I'll squeeze your head 8)
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 02, 2010, 12:43:11 AM
Arthur or are you really Muppet or Dixey :-* When you grow up and graduate past being able to string together
more than one sentence in you miserable attempt at not looking and sounding like a smart ass
... and we need any further shite out of ye.. I'll squeeze your head 8)
Oh Touche, Tyrones Own, Touche.
Quote from: magickingdom on February 01, 2010, 07:30:44 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 01, 2010, 07:19:38 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on February 01, 2010, 07:17:15 PM
i dont support the US policy towards israel and think it has been bad for america in a wider world context. israel needs to start respecting un resolutions, stand on its own 2 feet and live or die with the palestinians (dont worry they'll chose to live). i dont see any great love affair with israel in the american public and fail to understand the US gov position, even clinton bought into it more than most.
Are you now a US hater?
you really are been narky on this thread. . your reaction to this and stew is way over the top.
It's right out of the 'Terrorist supporters network' text book MK, they run out of ideas to back up their despicable ideology
then twist and turn things inside out...ask seriously loaded "Gottcha"questions and accuse you then of doing just that and
all this while not answering a single question themselves :D
Put words in your mouth to try to drag the debate all over the place, then it becomes a
he said she said pissing match which they then take advantage of as if to give themselves an even footing, they'll even be reduced to playing the victim card
when someone insults them :'(
ahem..Muppet while insulting all a sundry ::)..but you see I've been arguing with idiots on here for far too long
to allow it to go unchecked..bottom line and getting back to page one...it's perfectly understandable to me that America can do no good in the
eyes of anyone who would listen to and quote anything Gorgeous George Galloway would have to say!
And ye know that's OK freedom of speech is a wonderful thing unless of course you happen to reside in Venezuela, Iran or Cuba or the likes ;)
just be man enough to stand up and fecking admit it !
Seriously though... it really any wonder he's banned in Canada?
Que the coming out of the woodwork now to tear this post apart with insults and denials hoping to further more stay off the real subject here
of the great work the Americans have done in Haiti... They'll attack anything and everything but the hatred and vitriol they have for America and all she stands for!
WILL YOU ALL MOVE ALONG PLEASE.
And ease off on the Smilies!
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 01, 2010, 11:06:19 PM
Quote
How dare you you f**king t**se.
Jaysus go easy on him Stew he can only spout as quick as Dixey can read and quote more of Galloway's hate for him.... Speaking of Dixey...where'd he fcuk off to... You wouldn't think he would have made it so blatantly obvious that once his cover was blown that he worships at the alter of gorgeous George he'd go into hiding through embarrassment....Meow :-*
Quote
Every post I make here is in defence of lives whether it be American, Iraqi or death row inmates.
:D Yea when they're American lives...the Fcukers shouldn't have been there, when they're Iraq lives...It's those b**tard yanks, when it's death row...it's those b**tard Yanks
No need to explain muppet, everyone is on to both of ye at this point :-[
Please show me where I ever said any such thing? Are you that desperate to show anyone who disagrees with NeoCon ideology as a 'US hater' that you have to make up their arguments?
And as for 'everyone' if you mean Stew & MagicKingdom...........well that hardly counts as everyone does it? Coalition of the willing maybe, but 2 others is hardly everyone.
First of all Muppet, what do yuo think would happen if you got your wish and all countries in the middle east had the same technological capability with regard to weapons?
Secondly I never threatened you in any way, I thought and still think that you massively over-reacted to what I posted.
I used the word interesting because what you wrote would, in my mind have meant the end of the israeli state and probably most of it's people and the reason why that was interesting to me is that you must have known that would happen if you gave the Muslim countries in the region the same firepower as the Israelis and this seemed to fly in the face of what you had posted in the past.
We will never agree on this thread and I cant be bothered with it anymore, you have your beliefs and i have mine and neither of us are going to change our opinion.
One last thing, quit with the labelling, you seem to be in love with the term neo con and throw it around like confetti. I am not a neo con, never have been.
Quote from: stew on February 02, 2010, 03:50:35 PM
First of all Muppet, what do yuo think would happen if you got your wish and all countries in the middle east had the same technological capability with regard to weapons?
'Evening up' doesn't mean giving other countries nuclear weapons. If could mean the US stops giving annually $2-4 Billion to Israel (depending on who you believe) which it spend on it's military for example.
Quote
Secondly I never threatened you in any way, I thought and still think that you massively over-reacted to what I posted.
I thought you were saying that I wanted Israel wiped, I can accept that you didn't mean that (it didn't sound right anyway) and I apologise for what was an overreaction.
Quote
I used the word interesting because what you wrote would, in my mind have meant the end of the israeli state and probably most of it's people and the reason why that was interesting to me is that you must have known that would happen if you gave the Muslim countries in the region the same firepower as the Israelis and this seemed to fly in the face of what you had posted in the past.
Again, the current situation is nuclear weapons and F-16s on one side and glorified firecrackers on the Palestinian side. Evening it up does not mean giving everyone nuclear weapons, I would see it as the exact opposite.
Quote
We will never agree on this thread and I cant be bothered with it anymore, you have your beliefs and i have mine and neither of us are going to change our opinion.
One last thing, quit with the labelling, you seem to be in love with the term neo con and throw it around like confetti. I am not a neo con, never have been.
My use of the term NeoCon is to point exactly to who I blame in the States for the foreign policy disasters. I also partially use it in response to the lazy accusations of 'US haters' on this thread by those who defend the indefensible by attacking anyone who criticises.
I know the US military has made some mistakes but I also know it was ordered to take actions that it knew, and informed it's superiors, would be disastrous. Those superiors were the NeoCons and some of their wonderful decisions included supporting Saddam Hussein (hence the infamous Rumsfeldt photo) & invading Iraq with a view to destroying and occupying it rather than simply taking out Hussein..
The correlation here to the dangerous, delusional and utterly dispicable words and view's of their Hero is astounding :o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foqBUBUrr7M&feature=related
That is some video, your man is obviously a nut job but he is a dangerous nutter.
Some of his friends are great lads altogether, Castro, Chavez as well as the boul Uday to name a few.
I especially loved the nazi salute of the young Muslims, they are obviously indoctrinated simpletons who have no idea of the historical context of that salute nor the nefarious nature of the nazis who had no use for God be he a Christian, Muslim or Hindu God.
And people wonder why the Americans are determined to fight this scum at every turn, fair play to them I say.
Muppet, I was careful when asking the question about what you thought would happen if all parties in the middle east had the same technology because i wasnt talking about giving the Muslim world the same technology as the Israelis have at their disposal, I wanted t know what you thought would happen either way, i.e. if you took the advanced technology away from the Israelis and now the regions countries had roughly the same equipment at their disposal what do you think would happen?
The result to me would be the same, it would mean the destruction of Israel as a Country and would probably destroy the vast majority of israelis, no matter what way you cut it, if all parties had nuclear weapons and f-16's or none of them did, to me the Israeli people would be virtually obliterated and their country gone.
Quote from: magickingdom on February 01, 2010, 10:09:55 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 01, 2010, 07:47:23 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on February 01, 2010, 07:44:59 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 01, 2010, 07:35:15 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on February 01, 2010, 07:30:44 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 01, 2010, 07:19:38 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on February 01, 2010, 07:17:15 PM
i dont support the US policy towards israel and think it has been bad for america in a wider world context. israel needs to start respecting un resolutions, stand on its own 2 feet and live or die with the palestinians (dont worry they'll chose to live). i dont see any great love affair with israel in the american public and fail to understand the US gov position, even clinton bought into it more than most.
Are you now a US hater?
you really are been narky on this thread. . your reaction to this and stew is way over the top.
I was exploring the situation whereby you called people who disagreed with US policy - US haters - and then you announce you disagree with US policy.
Where does that leave you then?
i'm good, its covered by the first amendment. . free speech
You called those who criticised US foreign policy, US haters. So as you now criticised US foreign policy either you are a hypocrite or a US hater. Which is it?
when did i say that those who criticise US foreign policy are US haters?
to use your own line 'please show me where i ever said any such thing?'
Quote from: magickingdom on January 26, 2010, 07:06:23 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on January 26, 2010, 12:18:08 AM
"There really is no help for people like you, you are too far gone and too much hate in your heart".
Stew, it's people like me who have a heart can say what I said.
If you had of seen the same handy work of the US as me, then you wouldn't be so quick to put me down.
Again, I will repeat myself. "The US need to hang their head in shame for their role in Haiti right now."
And don't start me on their other achievements.
care to explain? you obviously hate the place and can see no good in anything the US does, that say a lot about you. i truly believe there ain't no pleasing some people
Quote from: stew on February 02, 2010, 07:18:43 PM
Muppet, I was careful when asking the question about what you thought would happen if all parties in the middle east had the same technology because i wasnt talking about giving the Muslim world the same technology as the Israelis have at their disposal, I wanted t know what you thought would happen either way, i.e. if you took the advanced technology away from the Israelis and now the regions countries had roughly the same equipment at their disposal what do you think would happen?
The result to me would be the same, it would mean the destruction of Israel as a Country and would probably destroy the vast majority of israelis, no matter what way you cut it, if all parties had nuclear weapons and f-16's or none of them did, to me the Israeli people would be virtually obliterated and their country gone.
I don't buy that. To assume that position you have to believe that the Arabs are warmongering lunatics incapable of anything else other than the destruction of Israel.
Disarm Israel and make it clear that the world will pulverize anyone who goes near it. Israel however would themselves need to learn some diplomacy. Look at McGuinness & Robinson. Take away the guns and the killing might stop.
I'm not saying this would definitely work, just that the current situation can't continue.
Quote from: muppet on February 02, 2010, 07:35:09 PM
Quote from: stew on February 02, 2010, 07:18:43 PM
Muppet, I was careful when asking the question about what you thought would happen if all parties in the middle east had the same technology because i wasnt talking about giving the Muslim world the same technology as the Israelis have at their disposal, I wanted t know what you thought would happen either way, i.e. if you took the advanced technology away from the Israelis and now the regions countries had roughly the same equipment at their disposal what do you think would happen?
The result to me would be the same, it would mean the destruction of Israel as a Country and would probably destroy the vast majority of israelis, no matter what way you cut it, if all parties had nuclear weapons and f-16's or none of them did, to me the Israeli people would be virtually obliterated and their country gone.
I don't buy that. To assume that position you have to believe that the Arabs are warmongering lunatics incapable of anything else other than the destruction of Israel.
Disarm Israel and make it clear that the world will pulverize anyone who goes near it. Israel however would themselves need to learn some diplomacy. Look at McGuinness & Robinson. Take away the guns and the killing might stop.
I'm not saying this would definitely work, just that the current situation can't continue.
It can't but you are deluded if you think some pack of eejits in the Arab world wouldnt take a pop at Israel, and who woud the world send in to save the Israelis? the Chinese? nah, the Russians maybe :D. Ok the yanks, what will that do, that will give the scum extremists over there the excuse to start hitting American embassies, escalate threats to the American mainland and cause further economic hardships on the world.
I deliberately did not mention the UN because I consider them a toothless entity not worth sending to a cockfight, they are too mired in red tape to be effective.
Quote from: stew on February 02, 2010, 07:47:10 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 02, 2010, 07:35:09 PM
Quote from: stew on February 02, 2010, 07:18:43 PM
Muppet, I was careful when asking the question about what you thought would happen if all parties in the middle east had the same technology because i wasnt talking about giving the Muslim world the same technology as the Israelis have at their disposal, I wanted t know what you thought would happen either way, i.e. if you took the advanced technology away from the Israelis and now the regions countries had roughly the same equipment at their disposal what do you think would happen?
The result to me would be the same, it would mean the destruction of Israel as a Country and would probably destroy the vast majority of israelis, no matter what way you cut it, if all parties had nuclear weapons and f-16's or none of them did, to me the Israeli people would be virtually obliterated and their country gone.
I don't buy that. To assume that position you have to believe that the Arabs are warmongering lunatics incapable of anything else other than the destruction of Israel.
Disarm Israel and make it clear that the world will pulverize anyone who goes near it. Israel however would themselves need to learn some diplomacy. Look at McGuinness & Robinson. Take away the guns and the killing might stop.
I'm not saying this would definitely work, just that the current situation can't continue.
It can't but you are deluded if you think some pack of eejits in the Arab world wouldnt take a pop at Israel, and who woud the world send in to save the Israelis? the Chinese? nah, the Russians maybe :D. Ok the yanks, what will that do, that will give the scum extremists over there the excuse to start hitting American embassies, escalate threats to the American mainland and cause further economic hardships on the world.
I deliberately did not mention the UN because I consider them a toothless entity not worth sending to a cockfight, they are too mired in red tape to be effective.
What do you think motivates those packs of eejits?
QuoteWhat do you think motivates those packs of eejits?
Not much other than the fact there are still too many damn infidels that
refuse to bow down and kneel before Muhammad....their
Holy and
peaceful intentions are clearly stated in the Koran, you should give it a read sometime!
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 02, 2010, 10:50:58 PM
QuoteWhat do you think motivates those packs of eejits?
Not much other than the fact there are still too many damn infidels that
refuse to bow down and kneel before Muhammad....their Holy and
peaceful intentions are clearly stated in the Koran, you should give it a read sometime!
You don't think your Republican government's apparent need to invade some of their countries would have an impact?
Are you even remotely familiar with the history of Ireland?
QuoteYou don't think your Republican government's apparent need to invade some of their countries would have an impact?
Possibly but what's you justification for their peaceful interpretation of the Koran
long before Bush even new where Iraq was?
QuoteAre you even remotely familiar with the history of Ireland?
Great...yet another history lesson on Ireland from a cut and run Mexican
as off topic as it is..again ::)
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 02, 2010, 11:01:05 PM
QuoteAre you even remotely familiar with the history of Ireland?
Great...yet another history lesson on Ireland from a cut and run Mexican
as off topic as it is..again ::)
How can you ever learn from history if you ignore any reference to it?
For 'they want to convert all infidels' type propaganda read 'the Irish are incapable of governing themselves'
Imperial propaganda 101.
QuoteFor 'they want to convert all infidels' type propaganda read 'the Irish are incapable of governing themselves'
Ah yes I see it, the correlation here is astonishing alright ::) I simply need look no further than the Koran.. thanks!
Have you no opinion good bad or indifferent regarding Galloway on youtube there? would you not agree it's a pretty damning
insight into the mind of a deranged brainwashed ideologue or will you be willing to defend it on here ?
yes that's a question mark
Thought there was athread on ISreal sending in troops to Gaza but couldn't find it biut I suppose this article may give some expalanation as to the antipathy towards Israel and the states in the wider arab world other than they are all infidels etc
Israeli commander: 'We rewrote the rules of war for Gaza'
Civilians 'put at greater risk to save military lives' in winter attack - revelations that will pile pressure on Netanyahu to set up full inquiry
By Donald Macintyre in Jerusalem
Wednesday, 3 February 2010
A high-ranking officer has acknowledged for the first time that the Israeli army went beyond its previous rules of engagement on the protection of civilian lives in order to minimise military casualties during last year's Gaza war, The Independent can reveal.
The officer, who served as a commander during Operation Cast Lead, made it clear that he did not regard the longstanding principle of military conduct known as "means and intentions" – whereby a targeted suspect must have a weapon and show signs of intending to use it before being fired upon – as being applicable before calling in fire from drones and helicopters in Gaza last winter. A more junior officer who served at a brigade headquarters during the operation described the new policy – devised in part to avoid the heavy military casualties of the 2006 Lebanon war – as one of "literally zero risk to the soldiers".
The officers' revelations will pile more pressure on Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to set up an independent inquiry into the war, as demanded in the UN-commissioned Goldstone Report, which harshly criticised the conduct of both Israel and Hamas. One of Israel's most prominent human rights lawyers, Michael Sfard, said last night that the senior commander's acknowledgement – if accurate – was "a smoking gun".
Related articles
Until now, the testimony has been kept out of the public domain. The senior commander told a journalist compiling a lengthy report for Yedhiot Ahronot, Israel's biggest daily newspaper, about the rules of engagement in the three-week military offensive in Gaza. But although the article was completed and ready for publication five months ago, it has still not appeared. The senior commander told Yedhiot: "Means and intentions is a definition that suits an arrest operation in the Judaea and Samaria [West Bank] area... We need to be very careful because the IDF [Israel Defence Forces] was already burnt in the second Lebanon war from the wrong terminology. The concept of means and intentions is taken from different circumstances. Here [in Cast Lead] we were not talking about another regular counter-terrorist operation. There is a clear difference."
His remarks reinforce testimonies from soldiers who served in the Gaza operation, made to the veterans' group Breaking the Silence and reported exclusively by this newspaper last July. They also appear to cut across the military doctrine – enunciated most recently in public by one of the authors of the IDF's own code of ethics – that it is the duty of soldiers to run risks to themselves in order to preserve civilian lives.
Explaining what he saw as the dilemma for forces operating in areas that were supposedly cleared of civilians, the senior commander said: "Whoever is left in the neighbourhood and wants to action an IED [improvised explosive device] against the soldiers doesn't have to walk with a Kalashnikov or a weapon. A person like that can walk around like any other civilian; he sees the IDF forces, calls someone who would operate the terrible death explosive and five of our soldiers explode in the air. We could not wait until this IED is activated against us."
Another soldier who worked in one of the brigade's war-room headquarters told The Independent that conduct in Gaza – particularly by aerial forces and in areas where civilians had been urged to leave by leaflets – had "taken the targeted killing idea and turned it on its head". Instead of using intelligence to identify a terrorist, he said, "here you do the opposite: first you take him down, then you look into it."
The Yedhiot newspaper also spoke to a series of soldiers who had served in Operation Cast Lead in sensitive positions. While the soldiers rejected the main finding of the Goldstone Report – that the Israeli military had deliberately "targeted" the civilian population – most asserted that the rules were flexible enough to allow a policy under which, in the words of one soldier "any movement must entail gunfire. No one's supposed to be there." He added that at a meeting with his brigade commander and others it was made clear that "if you see any signs of movement at all you shoot. This is essentially the rules of engagement."
The other soldier in the war-room explained: "This doesn't mean that you need to disrespect the lives of Palestinians but our first priority is the lives of our soldiers. That's not something you're going to compromise on. In all my years in the military, I never heard that."
He added that the majority of casualties were caused in his brigade area by aerial firing, including from unmanned drones. "Most of the guys taken down were taken down by order of headquarters. The number of enemy killed by HQ-operated remote ... compared to enemy killed by soldiers on the ground had absolutely inverted," he said.
Rules of engagement issued to soldiers serving in the West Bank as recently as July 2006 make it clear that shooting towards even an armed person will take place only if there is intelligence that he intends to act against Israeli forces or if he poses an immediate threat to soldiers or others.
In a recent article in New Republic, Moshe Halbertal, a philosophy professor at Hebrew and New York Universities, who was involved in drawing up the IDF's ethical code in 2000 and who is critical of the Goldstone Report, said that efforts to spare civilian life "must include the expectation that soldiers assume some risk to their own lives in order to avoid causing the deaths of civilians". While the choices for commanders were often extremely difficult and while he did not think the expectation was demanded by international law, "it is demanded in Israel's military code and this has always been its tradition".
The Israeli military declined to comment on the latest revelations, and directed all enquiries to already-published material, including a July 2009 foreign ministry document The Operation in Gaza: Factual and Legal Aspects.
That document, which repeats that Israel acted in conformity with international law despite the "acute dilemmas" posed by Hamas's operations within civilian areas, sets out the principles of Operation Cast Lead as follows: "Only military targets shall be attacked; Any attack against civilian objectives shall be prohibited. A 'civilian objective' is any objective which is not a military target." It adds: "In case of doubt, the forces are obliged to regard an object as civilian."
Yedhiot has not commented on why its article has not been published.
Israel in Gaza: The soldier's tale
This experienced soldier, who cannot be named, served in the war room of a brigade during Operation Cast Lead. Here, he recalls an incident he witnessed during last winter's three-week offensive:
"Two [Palestinian] guys are walking down the street. They pass a mosque and you see a gathering of women and children.
"You saw them exiting the house and [they] are not walking together but one behind the other. So you begin to fantasise they are actually ducking close to the wall.
"One [man] began to run at some point, must have heard the chopper. The GSS [secret service] argued that the mere fact that he heard it implicated him, because a normal civilian would not have realised that he was now being hunted.
"Finally he was shot. He was not shot next to the mosque. It's obvious that shots are not taken at a gathering."
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 03, 2010, 02:41:25 AM
QuoteFor 'they want to convert all infidels' type propaganda read 'the Irish are incapable of governing themselves'
Ah yes I see it, the correlation here is astonishing alright ::) I simply need look no further than the Koran.. thanks!
Have you no opinion good bad or indifferent regarding Galloway on youtube there? would you not agree it's a pretty damning
insight into the mind of a deranged brainwashed ideologue or will you be willing to defend it on here ? yes that's a question mark
Pointless straw man argument as usual. ::)
I don't care if George Galloway claims to be a wolfchild of the moon. He is everything you say Michael Moore is. It doesn't make the invasion of Iraq any more right or wrong.
By the way I wouldn't boast about familiarity with the Koran where you are. The free world mightn't be very understanding.
QuotePointless straw man argument as usual. ::)
Jaysus.... do you never get tired dancing?
QuoteI don't care if George Galloway claims to be a wolfchild of the moon. He is everything you say Michael Moore is. It doesn't make the invasion of Iraq any more right or wrong.
Right we've already beaten to death the fact that Iraq was a mistake but what's funny here is that
"you
don't care what Galloway has to say" but ye boy's wouldn't exactly be on the back foot about berating Palin for her
Dangerous ::) views on the world!
They're all only dangerous when they're Christian Values and beliefs...right?
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 03, 2010, 06:02:07 PM
QuotePointless straw man argument as usual. ::)
Jaysus.... do you never get tired dancing?
QuoteI don't care if George Galloway claims to be a wolfchild of the moon. He is everything you say Michael Moore is. It doesn't make the invasion of Iraq any more right or wrong.
Right we've already beaten to death the fact that Iraq was a mistake but what's funny here is that
"you don't care what Galloway has to say" but ye boy's wouldn't exactly be on the back foot about berating Palin for her Dangerous ::) views on the world!
They're all only dangerous when they're Christian Values and beliefs...right?
Let me see your logic here.
I think Palin is an idiot.
Galloway thinks she is an idiot.
Therefore i am a Galloway supporter?
She isn't the only idiot. ::)
Quote from: Arthur_Friend on February 02, 2010, 07:31:55 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on January 26, 2010, 07:06:23 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on January 26, 2010, 12:18:08 AM
"There really is no help for people like you, you are too far gone and too much hate in your heart".
Stew, it's people like me who have a heart can say what I said.
If you had of seen the same handy work of the US as me, then you wouldn't be so quick to put me down.
Again, I will repeat myself. "The US need to hang their head in shame for their role in Haiti right now."
And don't start me on their other achievements.
care to explain? you obviously hate the place and can see no good in anything the US does, that say a lot about you. i truly believe there ain't no pleasing some people
whats your point? that isnt what muppet quoted me as saying. .
Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2010, 06:42:34 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 03, 2010, 06:02:07 PM
QuotePointless straw man argument as usual. ::)
Jaysus.... do you never get tired dancing?
QuoteI don't care if George Galloway claims to be a wolfchild of the moon. He is everything you say Michael Moore is. It doesn't make the invasion of Iraq any more right or wrong.
Right we've already beaten to death the fact that Iraq was a mistake but what's funny here is that
"you don't care what Galloway has to say" but ye boy's wouldn't exactly be on the back foot about berating Palin for her Dangerous ::) views on the world!
They're all only dangerous when they're Christian Values and beliefs...right?
Let me see your logic here.
I think Palin is an idiot.
Galloway thinks she is an idiot.
Therefore i am a Galloway supporter?
She isn't the only idiot. ::)
Playing the man again I see muppet. ::)
After 21 pages of deflecting questions and their willingness to discuss absolutely anything but the
point being discussed, I think most stable minded people on here have them both figured out at this stage
...there's wiser in St Lukes as they say round our way!
Why Washington Cares About Countries Like Haiti and Honduras
US interference in the politics of Haiti and Honduras is only the latest example of its long-term manipulations in Latin America
by Mark Weisbrot
When I write about US foreign policy in places such as Haiti or Honduras, I often get responses from people who find it difficult to believe that the US government would care enough about these countries to try and control or topple their governments. These are small, poor countries with little in the way of resources or markets. Why should Washington policymakers care who runs them?
Unfortunately they do care. A lot. They care enough about Haiti to have overthrown the elected president Jean-Bertrand Aristide not once, but twice. The first time, in 1991, it was done covertly. We only found out after the fact that the people who led the coup were paid by the US Central Intelligence Agency. And then Emmanuel Constant, the leader of the most notorious death squad there – which killed thousands of Aristide's supporters after the coup – told CBS News that he, too, was funded by the CIA.
In 2004, the US involvement in the coup was much more open. Washington led a cut-off of almost all international aid for four years, making the government's collapse inevitable. As the New York Times reported, while the US state department was telling Aristide that he had to reach an agreement with the political opposition (funded with millions of US taxpayers' dollars), the International Republican Institute was telling the opposition not to settle.
In Honduras last summer and autumn, the US government did everything it could to prevent the rest of the hemisphere from mounting an effective political opposition to the coup government in Honduras. For example, they blocked the Organisation of American States from taking the position that it would not recognise elections that took place under the dictatorship. At the same time, the Obama administration publicly pretended that it was against the coup.
This was only partly successful, from a public relations point of view. Most of the US public thinks that the Obama administration was against the Honduran coup, although by November of last year there were numerous press reports and even editorial criticisms that Obama had caved to Republican pressure and not done enough. But this was a misreading of what actually happened: the Republican pressure in support of the Honduran coup changed the administration's public relations strategy, but not its political strategy. Those who followed events closely from the beginning could see that the political strategy was to blunt and delay any efforts to restore the elected president, while pretending that a return to democracy was actually the goal.
Among those who understood this were the governments of Latin America, including such heavyweights as Brazil. This is important because it shows that the State Department was willing to pay a significant political cost in order to help the right in Honduras. It convinced the vast majority of Latin American governments that it was no different from the Bush administration in its goals for the hemisphere, which is not a pleasant outcome from a diplomatic point of view.
Why do they care so much about who runs these poor countries? As any good chess player knows, pawns matter. The loss of a couple of pawns at the beginning of the game can often make a difference between a win or a loss. They are looking at these countries mostly in straight power terms. Governments that are in agreement with maximising US power in the world, they like. Those who have other goals – not necessarily antagonistic to the United States – they don't like.
Not surprisingly, the Obama administration's closest allies in the hemisphere are rightwing governments such as those of Colombia or Panama, even though Obama himself is not a rightwing politician. This highlights the continuity of the politics of control. The victory of the right in Chile, the first time that it has won an election in half a century, was a significant victory for the US government. If Lula de Silva's Workers' party were to lose the presidential election in Brazil this autumn, that would be another win for the state department. While US officials under both Bush and Obama have maintained a friendly posture toward Brazil, it is obvious that they deeply resent the changes in Brazilian foreign policy that have allied it with other social democratic governments in the hemisphere, and its independent foreign policy stances with regard to the Middle East, Iran, and elsewhere.
The US actually intervened in Brazilian politics as recently as 2005, organising a conference to promote a legal change that would make it more difficult for legislators to switch parties. This would have strengthened the opposition to Lula's Workers' party (PT) government, since the PT has party discipline but many opposition politicians do not. This intervention by the US government was only discovered last year through a Freedom of Information Act request filed in Washington. There are many other interventions taking place throughout the hemisphere that we do not know about. The United States has been heavily involved in Chilean politics since the 1960s, long before they organised the overthrow of Chilean democracy in 1973.
In October 1970, President Richard Nixon was cursing in the Oval Office about the Social Democratic president of Chile, Salvador Allende. "That son of a bitch!" said Richard Nixon on 15 October. "That son of a bitch Allende – we're going to smash him." A few weeks later he explained why:
The main concern in Chile is that [Allende] can consolidate himself, and the picture projected to the world will be his success ... If we let the potential leaders in South America think they can move like Chile and have it both ways, we will be in trouble.
That is another reason that pawns matter, and Nixon's nightmare did in fact come true a quarter-century later, as one country after another elected independent left governments that Washington did not want. The United States ended up "losing" most of the region. But they are trying to get it back, one country at a time. The smaller, poorer countries that are closer to the United States are the most at risk. Honduras and Haiti will have democratic elections some day, but only when Washington's influence over their politics is further reduced.
Good article Declan, thanks for posting it. I am guessing that some of the pro-yank elements on here will rail against it for all they are worth, you aren't allowed to post such things about the US administration
Bad Declan ;D
Declan, run for cover....... you US hater you.....................
Yes, more "hate speech" from Declan. Shame.
Quote from: Declan on February 04, 2010, 08:00:58 AM
Why Washington Cares About Countries Like Haiti and Honduras
US interference in the politics of Haiti and Honduras is only the latest example of its long-term manipulations in Latin America
by Mark Weisbrot
When I write about US foreign policy in places such as Haiti or Honduras, I often get responses from people who find it difficult to believe that the US government would care enough about these countries to try and control or topple their governments. These are small, poor countries with little in the way of resources or markets. Why should Washington policymakers care who runs them?
Unfortunately they do care. A lot. They care enough about Haiti to have overthrown the elected president Jean-Bertrand Aristide not once, but twice. The first time, in 1991, it was done covertly. We only found out after the fact that the people who led the coup were paid by the US Central Intelligence Agency. And then Emmanuel Constant, the leader of the most notorious death squad there – which killed thousands of Aristide's supporters after the coup – told CBS News that he, too, was funded by the CIA.
In 2004, the US involvement in the coup was much more open. Washington led a cut-off of almost all international aid for four years, making the government's collapse inevitable. As the New York Times reported, while the US state department was telling Aristide that he had to reach an agreement with the political opposition (funded with millions of US taxpayers' dollars), the International Republican Institute was telling the opposition not to settle.
In Honduras last summer and autumn, the US government did everything it could to prevent the rest of the hemisphere from mounting an effective political opposition to the coup government in Honduras. For example, they blocked the Organisation of American States from taking the position that it would not recognise elections that took place under the dictatorship. At the same time, the Obama administration publicly pretended that it was against the coup.
This was only partly successful, from a public relations point of view. Most of the US public thinks that the Obama administration was against the Honduran coup, although by November of last year there were numerous press reports and even editorial criticisms that Obama had caved to Republican pressure and not done enough. But this was a misreading of what actually happened: the Republican pressure in support of the Honduran coup changed the administration's public relations strategy, but not its political strategy. Those who followed events closely from the beginning could see that the political strategy was to blunt and delay any efforts to restore the elected president, while pretending that a return to democracy was actually the goal.
Among those who understood this were the governments of Latin America, including such heavyweights as Brazil. This is important because it shows that the State Department was willing to pay a significant political cost in order to help the right in Honduras. It convinced the vast majority of Latin American governments that it was no different from the Bush administration in its goals for the hemisphere, which is not a pleasant outcome from a diplomatic point of view.
Why do they care so much about who runs these poor countries? As any good chess player knows, pawns matter. The loss of a couple of pawns at the beginning of the game can often make a difference between a win or a loss. They are looking at these countries mostly in straight power terms. Governments that are in agreement with maximising US power in the world, they like. Those who have other goals – not necessarily antagonistic to the United States – they don't like.
Not surprisingly, the Obama administration's closest allies in the hemisphere are rightwing governments such as those of Colombia or Panama, even though Obama himself is not a rightwing politician. This highlights the continuity of the politics of control. The victory of the right in Chile, the first time that it has won an election in half a century, was a significant victory for the US government. If Lula de Silva's Workers' party were to lose the presidential election in Brazil this autumn, that would be another win for the state department. While US officials under both Bush and Obama have maintained a friendly posture toward Brazil, it is obvious that they deeply resent the changes in Brazilian foreign policy that have allied it with other social democratic governments in the hemisphere, and its independent foreign policy stances with regard to the Middle East, Iran, and elsewhere.
The US actually intervened in Brazilian politics as recently as 2005, organising a conference to promote a legal change that would make it more difficult for legislators to switch parties. This would have strengthened the opposition to Lula's Workers' party (PT) government, since the PT has party discipline but many opposition politicians do not. This intervention by the US government was only discovered last year through a Freedom of Information Act request filed in Washington. There are many other interventions taking place throughout the hemisphere that we do not know about. The United States has been heavily involved in Chilean politics since the 1960s, long before they organised the overthrow of Chilean democracy in 1973.
In October 1970, President Richard Nixon was cursing in the Oval Office about the Social Democratic president of Chile, Salvador Allende. "That son of a bitch!" said Richard Nixon on 15 October. "That son of a bitch Allende – we're going to smash him." A few weeks later he explained why:
The main concern in Chile is that [Allende] can consolidate himself, and the picture projected to the world will be his success ... If we let the potential leaders in South America think they can move like Chile and have it both ways, we will be in trouble.
That is another reason that pawns matter, and Nixon's nightmare did in fact come true a quarter-century later, as one country after another elected independent left governments that Washington did not want. The United States ended up "losing" most of the region. But they are trying to get it back, one country at a time. The smaller, poorer countries that are closer to the United States are the most at risk. Honduras and Haiti will have democratic elections some day, but only when Washington's influence over their politics is further reduced.
Yeah but George Galloway... and Iran... and the Koran... therefore I think its obvious to everyone around here that I am right and this is America hater bullshit ::) ::) :o :o :-[ :-* :-* :-* :-* ::) ::) 8) :o :o :( >:( :D ::) ::)
Quote from: AFS on February 04, 2010, 11:30:55 AM
Yeah but George Galloway... and Iran... and the Koran... therefore I think its obvious to everyone around here that I am right and this is America hater bullshit ::) ::) :o :o :-[ :-* :-* :-* :-* ::) ::) 8) :o :o :( >:( :D ::) ::)
Funny that. Criticise US foreign policy and you are a US hater.
Explore that a bit and even the NeoCons admit that Israel could be handled better and that Iraq was a disaster.
You would think that alone would be justification for criticising US foreign policy but no.
It all means you must love georgeous George Galloway, you must all sleep with a book written over a 1,000 years ago, because I can only see the world in black and white and in conclusion we need to invade more strategically located/oil producing counties because their lunatics need liberating more than the other lunatics.
I once read a book called;
Killing Hope: US Military and CIA
Interventions Since World War II.
by William Blum
bought in JFK airport before i was flying back home.
Latin America gets a fair bit of attention from the CIA.
Certain sections are now online at
http://killinghope.org/ (http://killinghope.org/)
very good read.
Quote from: johnneycool on February 04, 2010, 01:31:48 PM
I once read a book called;
Killing Hope: US Military and CIA
Interventions Since World War II.
by William Blum
bought in JFK airport before i was flying back home.
Latin America gets a fair bit of attention from the CIA.
Certain sections are now online at
http://killinghope.org/ (http://killinghope.org/)
very good read.
Just ordered it. Nice one Johnny.
QuoteFunny that. Criticise US foreign policy and you are a US hater.
Same tired spin.. ::) If you go back 20 pages you'll find that the reason
for that label was simply due to the reluctance and inabilty to say anything
remotely positive about the US be it foreign policy, domestic policy or charitable
aid across the globe...
what's the name of this thread again?Keep digging why don't ye....no one's noticing ::)
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 04, 2010, 05:51:07 PM
QuoteFunny that. Criticise US foreign policy and you are a US hater.
Same tired spin.. ::) If you go back 20 pages you'll find that the reason
for that label was simply due to the reluctance and inabilty to say anything
remotely positive about the US be it foreign policy, domestic policy or charitable
aid across the globe...what's the name of this thread again?
Keep digging why don't ye....no one's noticing ::)
Read my 1st post on this thread.
Quote from: give her dixie on February 04, 2010, 08:58:34 AM
Declan, run for cover....... you US hater you.....................
Jaysus you are still here....I see, just holding off to let a few pages go by and
hope some here will forget what it is you're really about..
Meow :-*
QuoteFunny that. Criticise US foreign policy and you are a US hater.
Nope...I've already covered that! it's the rest of the antagonistic horse shit piled on top of it!
QuoteExplore that a bit and even the NeoCons admit that Israel could be handled better and that Iraq was a disaster.
Yep....think we've settled that one also, so what's the excuse now with the continued bitterness and animosity?
Quotein conclusion we need to invade more strategically located/oil producing counties because their lunatics need liberating more than the other lunatics.
Leave the Lunatics in Mayo out of this :D
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 04, 2010, 10:48:55 PM
QuoteFunny that. Criticise US foreign policy and you are a US hater.
Nope...I've already covered that! it's the rest of the antagonistic horse shit piled on top of it!
QuoteExplore that a bit and even the NeoCons admit that Israel could be handled better and that Iraq was a disaster.
Yep....think we've settled that one also, so what's the excuse now with the continued bitterness and animosity?
Quotein conclusion we need to invade more strategically located/oil producing counties because their lunatics need liberating more than the other lunatics.
Leave the Lunatics in Mayo out of this :D
You seriously expect people to like murdering liars such as the NeoCons?
Quote from: muppet on February 04, 2010, 11:47:20 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 04, 2010, 10:48:55 PM
QuoteFunny that. Criticise US foreign policy and you are a US hater.
Nope...I've already covered that! it's the rest of the antagonistic horse shit piled on top of it!
QuoteExplore that a bit and even the NeoCons admit that Israel could be handled better and that Iraq was a disaster.
Yep....think we've settled that one also, so what's the excuse now with the continued bitterness and animosity?
Quotein conclusion we need to invade more strategically located/oil producing counties because their lunatics need liberating more than the other lunatics.
Leave the Lunatics in Mayo out of this :D
You seriously expect people to like murdering liars such as the NeoCons? Dictatorship regimes what's the difference actually...right?
Fcuk, Finally.... 22 pages later you f i n a l l y break down and admit that you do
indeed have underlying antipathy toward this Country in having such a vitriol point
of view... which evidently has overflowed to other aspects of what the US is about!
Shame really to go through life carrying such virulence for anyone or anything that doesn't
think, speak or share in your opinions!
Yet you have the audacity to call yourself a Pacifist ::)
Quote from: Hardy on February 04, 2010, 09:00:02 AM
Yes, more "hate speech" from Declan. Shame.
Is there any way possible that in your collective attempts to somehow strengthen your biased views of the US
that ye could quote and post articles that
aren't written by biased progressive Liberals not to mention
a self confessed fan of the Great Hugo Chavez's policies. :o Mark Weisbrot, are you kidding me! :D
Seriously, the love and support of Dictators on this board is actually scary
If what ye believe is right on the money then FFS do yourselves a favour and quote an impartial writer for once
..I might actually enjoy reading it.
Quotestrengthen your biased views of the US
Biased - that's ironic coming from you TO. In fact I do have view of the States - I think it's a wonderful country full of fantastic people that have allowed themselves fall into a collective sleepwalk and to be manipulated by very powerful people with a dangerous view of how the world should be ordered.
Quotearen't written by biased progressive Liberals
That's because any of the articles that are written by conservative journalists don't support the facts as out lined in that article - Is there anything not true in it by the way?
Quotethe love and support of Dictators on this board is actually scary
Don't think I've ever expressed love or support for any Dictators in any of my posts. You mention the bould Hugo there. I'd disagree with a lot of his policies particularly him wanting to change the constitution etc but the fact remains that all impartial reviews of the elections have shown that he has won them fair and square and I don't recall him being involved in any regime changes or wars since he came to power.I'd agree with his policies on the nationalisation of the natural resources though and his policies on health and education.
Don't know what an impartial writer is as everyone in the political sphere writes from a particular philosophy but you stick up a few articles that contradict the one I posted and I'll gladly read it and let you know my opinion on it.
Keep her lit
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 05, 2010, 02:23:00 AM
Quote from: Hardy on February 04, 2010, 09:00:02 AM
Yes, more "hate speech" from Declan. Shame.
Is there any way possible that in your collective attempts to somehow strengthen your biased views of the US
that ye could quote and post articles that aren't written by biased progressive Liberals not to mention
a self confessed fan of the Great Hugo Chavez's policies. :o Mark Weisbrot, are you kidding me! :D
Seriously, the love and support of Dictators on this board is actually scary
If what ye believe is right on the money then FFS do yourselves a favour and quote an impartial writer for once
..I might actually enjoy reading it.
Isn't that a contradiction in terms?
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 05, 2010, 02:23:00 AM
Quote from: Hardy on February 04, 2010, 09:00:02 AM
Yes, more "hate speech" from Declan. Shame.
Is there any way possible that in your collective attempts to somehow strengthen your biased views of the US
that ye could quote and post articles that aren't written by biased progressive Liberals not to mention
a self confessed fan of the Great Hugo Chavez's policies. :o Mark Weisbrot, are you kidding me! :D
Seriously, the love and support of Dictators on this board is actually scary
If what ye believe is right on the money then FFS do yourselves a favour and quote an impartial writer for once
..I might actually enjoy reading it.
Listen, Archie Bunker -
On second thoughts, I won't.
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 05, 2010, 01:06:56 AM
Quote from: muppet on February 04, 2010, 11:47:20 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 04, 2010, 10:48:55 PM
QuoteFunny that. Criticise US foreign policy and you are a US hater.
Nope...I've already covered that! it's the rest of the antagonistic horse shit piled on top of it!
QuoteExplore that a bit and even the NeoCons admit that Israel could be handled better and that Iraq was a disaster.
Yep....think we've settled that one also, so what's the excuse now with the continued bitterness and animosity?
Quotein conclusion we need to invade more strategically located/oil producing counties because their lunatics need liberating more than the other lunatics.
Leave the Lunatics in Mayo out of this :D
You seriously expect people to like murdering liars such as the NeoCons? Dictatorship regimes what's the difference actually...right?
Fcuk, Finally.... 22 pages later you f i n a l l y break down and admit that you do
indeed have underlying antipathy toward this Country in having such a vitriol point
of view... which evidently has overflowed to other aspects of what the US is about!
Shame really to go through life carrying such virulence for anyone or anything that doesn't
think, speak or share in your opinions!
Yet you have the audacity to call yourself a Pacifist ::)
How does hating murderers conflict with pacifism?
How does hating the Neocons mean an underlying antipathy to the US?
I hate Nazis but I dont hate Germans. See.
In your polarised world everything is so black and white that your only option is to do as you are told or start a revolution. You don't seem to be the type to have the balls for the latter.
Bloody hell, there are some slow learners on this thread, I can't believe you's are are still feeding the bears 20 pages later, though admittedly some of the posts on here are top quality comedic stuff.
I'm always up for a debate, in fact it's hard to bate a good humdinger of an argument on occasion, but surely to god you's have bound to have realised by now that it is completely pointless having an argument with TO, simply because he refuses to engage in anything remotely approaching debate.
S/he reminds me of Vicky Pollard being called up in front of the headmaster,
'yeah but no but yeah but no but yeah but it was Sue Jones fault cos she snogged Jason who's goin out with Whitneys big sister who has the 3 kids by Trace's brothers.................'
Quote from: Hardy on February 05, 2010, 09:20:51 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 05, 2010, 02:23:00 AM
Quote from: Hardy on February 04, 2010, 09:00:02 AM
Yes, more "hate speech" from Declan. Shame.
Is there any way possible that in your collective attempts to somehow strengthen your biased views of the US
that ye could quote and post articles that aren't written by biased progressive Liberals not to mention
a self confessed fan of the Great Hugo Chavez's policies. :o Mark Weisbrot, are you kidding me! :D
Seriously, the love and support of Dictators on this board is actually scary
If what ye believe is right on the money then FFS do yourselves a favour and quote an impartial writer for once
..I might actually enjoy reading it.
Listen, Archie Bunker -
On second thoughts, I won't.
:D Because ye can't...ye have nothing!
-Keyser, sort this out will ye?
Quote from: Keyser soze on February 05, 2010, 01:46:55 PM
Bloody hell, there are some slow learners on this thread, I can't believe you's are are still feeding the bears 20 pages later, though admittedly some of the posts on here are top quality comedic stuff.
I'm always up for a debate, in fact it's hard to bate a good humdinger of an argument on occasion, but surely to god you's have bound to have realised by now that it is completely pointless having an argument with TO, simply because he refuses to engage in anything remotely approaching debate.
S/he reminds me of Vicky Pollard being called up in front of the headmaster,
'yeah but no but yeah but no but yeah but it was Sue Jones fault cos she snogged Jason who's goin out with Whitneys big sister who has the 3 kids by Trace's brothers.................'
Because it is hilarious. It's like the Simpsons Cat Lady meets Fox News.
Quotethough admittedly some of the posts on here are top quality comedic stuff.
No doubt.... it's quite hard to debate when the Great debaters ::) will doing nothing but hurl
abuse and vitriol all day long but simply can't answer the most basic of questions.
So if this is your idea of debating..well it's embarrassing to say the least!
QuoteS/he reminds me of Vicky Pollard being called up in front of the headmaster,
'yeah but no but yeah but no but yeah but it was Sue Jones fault cos she snogged Jason who's goin out with Whitneys big sister who has the 3 kids by Trace's brothers.................'
:D See that right there is embarrassing stuff unless you're 10 yrs old of course
and that's usually when I have to remind myself of what frequents this board :-[
Quote from: Keyser soze on February 05, 2010, 01:46:55 PM
Bloody hell, there are some slow learners on this thread, I can't believe you's are are still feeding the bears 20 pages later, though admittedly some of the posts on here are top quality comedic stuff.
I'm always up for a debate, in fact it's hard to bate a good humdinger of an argument on occasion, but surely to god you's have bound to have realised by now that it is completely pointless having an argument with TO, simply because he refuses to engage in anything remotely approaching debate.
S/he reminds me of Vicky Pollard being called up in front of the headmaster,
'yeah but no but yeah but no but yeah but it was Sue Jones fault cos she snogged Jason who's goin out with Whitneys big sister who has the 3 kids by Trace's brothers.................'
True. Muppet and others may be dead wrong on every issue and TO's position may be 100% correct, but there is only one side offering anything remotely approaching a genuine argument. It is at least possible to follow muppet's thought process and reasoning. TO's posts read like a textbook of logical fallacies and diversion tactics. He seems to have decided that his opinions are infallible, so anything challenging these are instantly dismissed with reams of smarmy, emoticon ridden, condescension. There has been no genuine debate on this thread, because it is impossible to debate with someone who outrightly refuses to even consider their opponent's arguments.
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 05, 2010, 02:06:37 PM
Quote from: Hardy on February 05, 2010, 09:20:51 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 05, 2010, 02:23:00 AM
Quote from: Hardy on February 04, 2010, 09:00:02 AM
Yes, more "hate speech" from Declan. Shame.
Is there any way possible that in your collective attempts to somehow strengthen your biased views of the US
that ye could quote and post articles that aren't written by biased progressive Liberals not to mention
a self confessed fan of the Great Hugo Chavez's policies. :o Mark Weisbrot, are you kidding me! :D
Seriously, the love and support of Dictators on this board is actually scary
If what ye believe is right on the money then FFS do yourselves a favour and quote an impartial writer for once
..I might actually enjoy reading it.
Listen, Archie Bunker -
On second thoughts, I won't.
:D Because ye can't...ye have nothing!
-Keyser, sort this out will ye?
I wasn't going to, but since you insist on goading everyone within spitting range, I'll respond just this once. I have no intention of engaging with you, for the same reason I never bother discussing football with the magpie outside in the garden. I just know what would happen. It'd be along the lines of me asking "well, what did you think of the match?" and him replying with a screech and a dropping. Where do you go from there?
But anyway, I feel the need to point out to you, in response to your lie that I'm expressing biased opinions about the US that I have expressed no views whatever on the US, biased or otherwise, in this exchange.
I won't be replying to whatever melange of Homerisms, emoticons and eccentrically arranged punctuation marks you will undoubtedly deploy in response. I have grass to paint, or whatever.
Never argue with a fool..........
Quote from: johnneycool on February 05, 2010, 03:05:25 PM
Never argue with a fool..........
This thread should be a stark reminder of that wisdom.
Quote from: Hardy on February 05, 2010, 03:00:56 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 05, 2010, 02:06:37 PM
Quote from: Hardy on February 05, 2010, 09:20:51 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 05, 2010, 02:23:00 AM
Quote from: Hardy on February 04, 2010, 09:00:02 AM
Yes, more "hate speech" from Declan. Shame.
Is there any way possible that in your collective attempts to somehow strengthen your biased views of the US
that ye could quote and post articles that aren't written by biased progressive Liberals not to mention
a self confessed fan of the Great Hugo Chavez's policies. :o Mark Weisbrot, are you kidding me! :D
Seriously, the love and support of Dictators on this board is actually scary
If what ye believe is right on the money then FFS do yourselves a favour and quote an impartial writer for once
..I might actually enjoy reading it.
Listen, Archie Bunker -
On second thoughts, I won't.
:D Because ye can't...ye have nothing!
-Keyser, sort this out will ye?
I wasn't going to, but since you insist on goading everyone within spitting range, I'll respond just this once. I have no intention of engaging with you, for the same reason I never bother discussing football with the magpie outside in the garden. I just know what would happen. It'd be along the lines of me asking "well, what did you think of the match?" and him replying with a screech and a dropping. Where do you go from there?
But anyway, I feel the need to point out to you, in response to your lie that I'm expressing biased opinions about the US that I have expressed no views whatever on the US, biased or otherwise, in this exchange.
I won't be replying to whatever melange of Homerisms, emoticons and eccentrically arranged punctuation marks you will undoubtedly deploy in response. I have grass to paint, or whatever.
23 pages and that is the best summation of the argument.
Channel 4 news did a report from Haiti earlier about a 3 month year old child who has had an arm amputated, has a serious head injury which needs urgent medical care or the child will die, her parents were killed in the earthquake. She will die without the treatment
Well the thing is, the US military have decided that a doctor with Medecins Sans Frontieres is not allowed to take the child to the UK to get this treatment. Where is the sense in that? Who gave them the right to decide whether or not this doctor could take the child to London?
Spare me the bullshit about the US doing good when they are happy to let any child die. They said it's because the child hasn't got the proper documentation - did you ever hear the like of it?
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on February 06, 2010, 08:18:28 PM
Channel 4 news did a report from Haiti earlier about a 3 month year old child who has had an arm amputated, has a serious head injury which needs urgent medical care or the child will die, her parents were killed in the earthquake. She will die without the treatment
Well the thing is, the US military have decided that a doctor with Medecins Sans Frontieres is not allowed to take the child to the UK to get this treatment. Where is the sense in that? Who gave them the right to decide whether or not this doctor could take the child to London?
Spare me the bullshit about the US doing good when they are happy to let any child die. They said it's because the child hasn't got the proper documentation - did you ever hear the like of it?
Could be some bureaucratic over-reaction to the child abduction stories.
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on February 06, 2010, 08:18:28 PM
Channel 4 news did a report from Haiti earlier about a 3 month year old child who has had an arm amputated, has a serious head injury which needs urgent medical care or the child will die, her parents were killed in the earthquake. She will die without the treatment
Well the thing is, the US military have decided that a doctor with Medecins Sans Frontieres is not allowed to take the child to the UK to get this treatment. Where is the sense in that? Who gave them the right to decide whether or not this doctor could take the child to London?
Spare me the bullshit about the US doing good when they are happy to let any child die. They said it's because the child hasn't got the proper documentation - did you ever hear the like of it?
check your facts on that story. .
No J70, the US military said it was because the child didn't have the proper documentation - in the name of God how do they expect a 3 month old child who has lost her parents in an earthquake to have her passport, birth certificate etc on the ready in case of emergency?
magickingdom, do your own research. The story I have told is the story Channel 4 news ran with, they interviewed the doctor who wants to take her to London to perform the surgery on her head wound that she needs to survive. He says it's a miracle she has made it this far and wants her to be 'a real miracle baby'
Unfortunately, the US military seem to have the power over her life. Why do they have that right in a country that has nothing to do with them?
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on February 07, 2010, 09:08:55 AM
No J70, the US military said it was because the child didn't have the proper documentation - in the name of God how do they expect a 3 month old child who has lost her parents in an earthquake to have her passport, birth certificate etc on the ready in case of emergency?
That was my point. There are allegations that children have been illegally removed from Haiti to Florida. Maybe for that reason some staff decided that they didn't want to let the child leave without the proper documentation. Not defending it, assuming its true.
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on February 07, 2010, 09:08:55 AM
No J70, the US military said it was because the child didn't have the proper documentation - in the name of God how do they expect a 3 month old child who has lost her parents in an earthquake to have her passport, birth certificate etc on the ready in case of emergency?
magickingdom, do your own research. The story I have told is the story Channel 4 news ran with, they interviewed the doctor who wants to take her to London to perform the surgery on her head wound that she needs to survive. He says it's a miracle she has made it this far and wants her to be 'a real miracle baby'
Unfortunately, the US military seem to have the power over her life. Why do they have that right in a country that has nothing to do with them?
its bull pure and simple, get a link to it or dont post emotive rubbish
Quote from: magickingdom on February 07, 2010, 02:22:59 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on February 07, 2010, 09:08:55 AM
No J70, the US military said it was because the child didn't have the proper documentation - in the name of God how do they expect a 3 month old child who has lost her parents in an earthquake to have her passport, birth certificate etc on the ready in case of emergency?
magickingdom, do your own research. The story I have told is the story Channel 4 news ran with, they interviewed the doctor who wants to take her to London to perform the surgery on her head wound that she needs to survive. He says it's a miracle she has made it this far and wants her to be 'a real miracle baby'
Unfortunately, the US military seem to have the power over her life. Why do they have that right in a country that has nothing to do with them?
its bull pure and simple, get a link to it or dont post emotive rubbish
http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/world/americas/haiti+baby+in+urgent+need+of+surgery/3528537
how does it work, you turn up at the airport with kids and just take them whereever? i have no doubt that child will get whatever treatment is needed, and no doubt some would think the US will be responsible for her death. we'll see.
btw the video is heart wrenching and people like dr david nott are real heroes
Quote from: magickingdom on February 07, 2010, 02:22:59 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on February 07, 2010, 09:08:55 AM
No J70, the US military said it was because the child didn't have the proper documentation - in the name of God how do they expect a 3 month old child who has lost her parents in an earthquake to have her passport, birth certificate etc on the ready in case of emergency?
magickingdom, do your own research. The story I have told is the story Channel 4 news ran with, they interviewed the doctor who wants to take her to London to perform the surgery on her head wound that she needs to survive. He says it's a miracle she has made it this far and wants her to be 'a real miracle baby'
Unfortunately, the US military seem to have the power over her life. Why do they have that right in a country that has nothing to do with them?
its bull pure and simple, get a link to it or dont post emotive rubbish
Is it still bull? ::)
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on February 07, 2010, 03:19:34 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on February 07, 2010, 02:22:59 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on February 07, 2010, 09:08:55 AM
No J70, the US military said it was because the child didn't have the proper documentation - in the name of God how do they expect a 3 month old child who has lost her parents in an earthquake to have her passport, birth certificate etc on the ready in case of emergency?
magickingdom, do your own research. The story I have told is the story Channel 4 news ran with, they interviewed the doctor who wants to take her to London to perform the surgery on her head wound that she needs to survive. He says it's a miracle she has made it this far and wants her to be 'a real miracle baby'
Unfortunately, the US military seem to have the power over her life. Why do they have that right in a country that has nothing to do with them?
its bull pure and simple, get a link to it or dont post emotive rubbish
Is it still bull? ::)
that remains to be seen, no?
No
Well we do know one thing for sure...if the child was eventually air lifted to Florida for the necessary care
and is recovering well, we'll certainly not read about it on this thread ::)
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 08, 2010, 02:04:16 PM
Well we do know one thing for sure...if the child was eventually air lifted to Florida for the necessary care
and is recovering well, we'll certainly not read about it on this thread ::)
Yes, in hypothetical land you are the victim.
Meanwhile back in the real world........ ::)
Victim...me? heavens no, simply stating the obvious!
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 08, 2010, 02:04:16 PM
Well we do know one thing for sure...if the child was eventually air lifted to Florida for the necessary care
and is recovering well, we'll certainly not read about it on this thread ::)
It wouldn't be the US military who would airlift her to Florida, that's for sure ::)
I will ask again, why are the US military deciding who can or can't leave Haiti anyway?It's not their country.
QuoteIt wouldn't be the US military who would airlift her to Florida, that's for sure ::)
Really...... who else would it be?..Hater!
QuoteI will ask again,
Baa :D..Baa :D
Quotewhy are the US military deciding who can or can't leave Haiti anyway?
Sure even if it were to be the case, why don't
you tell us...you seem to know most everything else that's going on there ::)
from the armchair !
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 08, 2010, 10:53:46 PM
QuoteIt wouldn't be the US military who would airlift her to Florida, that's for sure ::)
Really...... who else would it be?..Hater!
QuoteI will ask again,
Baa :D..Baa :D
Quotewhy are the US military deciding who can or can't leave Haiti anyway?
Sure even if it were to be the case, why don't you tell us...you seem to know most everything else that's going on there ::) from the armchair !
Add me to the list of people who won't reply to your idiotic posts
Start to behave yourself and maybe you won't find yourself so isolated
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on February 08, 2010, 11:09:03 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 08, 2010, 10:53:46 PM
QuoteIt wouldn't be the US military who would airlift her to Florida, that's for sure ::)
Really...... who else would it be?..Hater!
QuoteI will ask again,
Baa :D..Baa :D
Quotewhy are the US military deciding who can or can't leave Haiti anyway?
Sure even if it were to be the case, why don't you tell us...you seem to know most everything else that's going on there ::) from the armchair !
Add me to the list of people who won't reply to your idiotic posts
Start to behave yourself and maybe you won't find yourself so isolated
:D Pot, Kettle, black.
QuoteAdd me to the list of people who won't reply to your idiotic posts
I was always taught that there's no such thing as an idiotic
question I knew there was more to the agenda and propagandizing of this thread than just the noxious, hateful speech
of George Galloway then it dawned on me that there were scary similarities to a book I just read...Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals"
I think rule #1 from an excerpt taken from the "rules for radicals" below may have come in to play here judging by the way their argument seems to have broken down :'(
1). "Never go outside the expertise of your people.
When an action or tactic is outside the experience of the people, the result is confusion, fear and retreat.... [and] the collapse of communication. :D
2) "Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy. Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty.
(This happens all the time. Watch how many organizations under attack are blind-sided by seemingly irrelevant arguments that they are then forced to address.) 3) "Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.
You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity."4) "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon.
It is almost impossible to counteract ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, which then reacts to your advantage."5)"Keep the pressure on,
with different tactics and actions, and utilize all events of the period for your purpose."6)"The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition.
It is this unceasing pressure that results in the reactions from the opposition that are essential for the success of the campaign."7)"If you push a negative hard and deep enough, it will break through into its counterside...
every positive has its negative." 8 )
Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it. In conflict tactics there are certain rules that [should be regarded] as universalities. One is that the opposition must be singled out as the target and 'frozen.'...
"...any target can always say, 'Why do you center on me when there are others to blame as well?' When your 'freeze the target,' you disregard these [rational but distracting] arguments.... Then, as you zero in and freeze your target and carry out your attack, all the 'others' come out of the woodwork very soon. They become visible by their support of the target...'
"One acts decisively only in the conviction that all the angels are on one side and all the devils on the other."
Even with all this time tested expertize at your finger tips....ye still couldn't get it done :-[
QuoteStart to behave yourself and maybe you won't find yourself so isolated
Pick the target,
freeze it,
personalize it, and
polarize it. ::)
Oh i've heard of this book. This is the book that Obama lives his life according to Fox news.
Quote from: AFS on February 05, 2010, 02:30:50 PM
It is at least possible to follow muppet's thought process and reasoning. TO's posts read like a textbook of logical fallacies and diversion tactics. He seems to have decided that his opinions are infallible, so anything challenging these are instantly dismissed with reams of smarmy, emoticon ridden, condescension. There has been no genuine debate on this thread, because it is impossible to debate with someone who outrightly refuses to even consider their opponent's arguments.
In fairness to TO, thats how they roll over here in the good old US of A, for further examples please see:
(http://tizona.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/sarah_palin_02.jpg) or
(http://radiopatriot.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/glenn-beck2.jpg)
or just a general all over kind of thing here
(http://www.foxnews.com/i/new/fn-header.jpg)
because its fair and balanced...
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 09, 2010, 03:00:34 AM
Oh i've heard of this book. This is the book that Obama lives his life according to Fox news.
No not necessarily :-*...you can also ask L. David Alinsky his view, you might be shocked to find it's
not entirely different to what Fox news has reported, and yes he's Saul's son who is extremely proud
of his old man and his teachings!
Ah come on HB..ye left out the "#1 for nearly ten years"
No need to kick ye boy's when your down,
I think the ratings speak well enough for themselves.
Good use of space there by the way to quickly get the page turned ;)
I have Fox News in Thailand. It is massive for the GOP/Tea Party. Why it is allow to even suggest it is a news channel is incredible. It is all Opinion. I don't have access to other American New Channels but they must be really bad if so many watch Fox.
Its kinda funny but O'Reilly is the sane one on the station and usually doesn't go as far as the others. The great American panel and Beck have to be the biggest joke on tv. Someone should tell Hanratty how to conduct a panel not give his opinion on everything and end with "i'm a Reagan conservative" that show certainly isn't "fair and balanced" with two reds and a blue.
Beck is a hateful bastard. He wants to do everything to solve all american problems and speaks like he is the heartbeat of the nation. Crys on cue for his country and belittles every other nation on the planet. Inward and backward looking.
Fox anyone who is green is an extremist or radical anyone who holds rallies is a patriot if they are gop but radial if they are dems. It is LCD stuff, all questions are leading questions to make dems look bad and gop look great. Its a mouthpiece. The dems should really get on fox as much as possible to conter some of the shit peddled.
I cannot wait to see the headlines that all soliders waterboard their kids from Fox News today. Just like all Muslims in the Army want to kill Americans during fort Hood.
stew, bad form of you. Debate the points I have raised or you get the ignore treatment too
Why isnt there an ignore fuction on this forum, its on others and it works great. It would cut out a hell of a lot of the bickering that goes on ( and weed out thsoe that actually want to continue to bicker!)
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on February 09, 2010, 09:28:11 AM
stew, bad form of you. Debate the points I have raised or you get the ignore treatment too
The ignore function on here is a great tool - have only ever used for it for some p***k from Kiltane but it has enhanced my Gaaboard experience no end!!
It's a good idea in theory, but I can't do it. It'd be like going to the zoo and staying in pets' corner.
Quote from: stephenite on February 09, 2010, 09:55:03 AM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on February 09, 2010, 09:28:11 AM
stew, bad form of you. Debate the points I have raised or you get the ignore treatment too
The ignore function on here is a great tool - have only ever used for it for some p***k from Kiltane but it has enhanced my Gaaboard experience no end!!
:D That must be why IntoDwest has gone into hiding!
The child I talked about before is now in a London hospital with David Nott who is a saint imo
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 05, 2010, 01:06:56 AM
Quote from: muppet on February 04, 2010, 11:47:20 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 04, 2010, 10:48:55 PM
QuoteFunny that. Criticise US foreign policy and you are a US hater.
Nope...I've already covered that! it's the rest of the antagonistic horse shit piled on top of it!
QuoteExplore that a bit and even the NeoCons admit that Israel could be handled better and that Iraq was a disaster.
Yep....think we've settled that one also, so what's the excuse now with the continued bitterness and animosity?
Quotein conclusion we need to invade more strategically located/oil producing counties because their lunatics need liberating more than the other lunatics.
Leave the Lunatics in Mayo out of this :D
You seriously expect people to like murdering liars such as the NeoCons? Dictatorship regimes what's the difference actually...right?
Fcuk, Finally.... 22 pages later you f i n a l l y break down and admit that you do
indeed have underlying antipathy toward this Country in having such a vitriol point
of view... which evidently has overflowed to other aspects of what the US is about!
Shame really to go through life carrying such virulence for anyone or anything that doesn't
think, speak or share in your opinions!
Yet you have the audacity to call yourself a Pacifist ::)
Pacifism when it suits an agenda is not pacifism at all.
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on February 12, 2010, 07:10:15 PM
The child I talked about before is now on her way to a London hospital with David Nott who is a saint imo
So the big bad yanks decided to let the child live after all eh ardmachaabu. ::) ::) ::)
Anyway, the child is going to be ok thank God.
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on February 09, 2010, 09:28:11 AM
stew, bad form of you. Debate the points I have raised or you get the ignore treatment too
You have some opinion of your own worth, ignore away.
Quote from: stew on February 12, 2010, 07:28:25 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on February 12, 2010, 07:10:15 PM
The child I talked about before is now on her way to a London hospital with David Nott who is a saint imo
So the big bad yanks decided to let the child live after all eh ardmachaabu. ::) ::) ::)
Anyway, the child is going to be ok thank God.
I don't know the full story yet, only heard bits and pieces of it earlier on the news as it was too emotional. Main thing is the child will get the medical attention she needs, haven't heard if it was the US military who decided this or someone else. At the minute I am so happy she is in Great Ormonde Street to get treatment, I only hope she comes through it. If she were to come through it she would be a sign in the modern world that God really does exist, imo of course
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on February 12, 2010, 08:20:49 PM
Quote from: stew on February 12, 2010, 07:28:25 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on February 12, 2010, 07:10:15 PM
The child I talked about before is now on her way to a London hospital with David Nott who is a saint imo
So the big bad yanks decided to let the child live after all eh ardmachaabu. ::) ::) ::)
Anyway, the child is going to be ok thank God.
I don't know the full story yet, only heard bits and pieces of it earlier on the news as it was too emotional. Main thing is the child will get the medical attention she needs, haven't heard if it was the US military who decided this or someone else. At the minute I am so happy she is in Great Ormonde Street to get treatment, I only hope she comes through it. If she were to come through it she would be a sign in the modern world that God really does exist, imo of course
You seem to have a very fickle stance on God there ardmacha. ::)
You also casnnot have it both ways, the yanks are either preventing this child from leaving Haiti and therefore dying or the yanks decided that she needed to be let out of the country to get the medical attention she needs, after all they are taking over haiti arent they?
I am happy she is getting the treatment she needs as well.
stew, I am not being evasive, I genuinely don't know what happened that she was allowed to go to London. I only mentioned her case in this thread as I thought it was the best place to put it
When I know more than the fact that she is in Great Ormonde Street getting treatment, I will let everyone know
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on February 12, 2010, 08:37:35 PM
stew, I am not being evasive, I genuinely don't know what happened that she was allowed to go to London. I only mentioned her case in this thread as I thought it was the best place to put it
When I know more than the fact that she is in Great Ormonde Street getting treatment, I will let everyone know
They didnt feckin sneak her out will.
Someone had to go in and restore order, just thank God it was the yanks and not the Iranians or the Brits, they might have forgotten to leave.
Quote from: stew on February 12, 2010, 08:41:14 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on February 12, 2010, 08:37:35 PM
stew, I am not being evasive, I genuinely don't know what happened that she was allowed to go to London. I only mentioned her case in this thread as I thought it was the best place to put it
When I know more than the fact that she is in Great Ormonde Street getting treatment, I will let everyone know
They didnt feckin sneak her out will.
Someone had to go in and restore order, just thank God it was the yanks and not the Iranians or the Brits, they might have forgotten to leave.
That remains to be seen
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on February 12, 2010, 08:54:42 PM
Quote from: stew on February 12, 2010, 08:41:14 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on February 12, 2010, 08:37:35 PM
stew, I am not being evasive, I genuinely don't know what happened that she was allowed to go to London. I only mentioned her case in this thread as I thought it was the best place to put it
When I know more than the fact that she is in Great Ormonde Street getting treatment, I will let everyone know
They didnt feckin sneak her out will.
Someone had to go in and restore order, just thank God it was the yanks and not the Iranians or the Brits, they might have forgotten to leave.
That remains to be seen
you were wrong, now be man enough and admit it. the US didnt set out to kill this child, please God she will do well..
Quote from: magickingdom on February 12, 2010, 09:28:27 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on February 12, 2010, 08:54:42 PM
Quote from: stew on February 12, 2010, 08:41:14 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on February 12, 2010, 08:37:35 PM
stew, I am not being evasive, I genuinely don't know what happened that she was allowed to go to London. I only mentioned her case in this thread as I thought it was the best place to put it
When I know more than the fact that she is in Great Ormonde Street getting treatment, I will let everyone know
They didnt feckin sneak her out will.
Someone had to go in and restore order, just thank God it was the yanks and not the Iranians or the Brits, they might have forgotten to leave.
That remains to be seen
you were wrong, now be man enough and admit it. the US didnt set out to kill this child, please God she will do well..
mk, I have already updated people to see what had happened with the child. I don't as yet know if the US military relented on their refusal to let her travel to London or whether they were told what to do from above - I still want to know what the US government have to do with making decisions in Haiti though
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on February 12, 2010, 09:32:04 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on February 12, 2010, 09:28:27 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on February 12, 2010, 08:54:42 PM
Quote from: stew on February 12, 2010, 08:41:14 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on February 12, 2010, 08:37:35 PM
stew, I am not being evasive, I genuinely don't know what happened that she was allowed to go to London. I only mentioned her case in this thread as I thought it was the best place to put it
When I know more than the fact that she is in Great Ormonde Street getting treatment, I will let everyone know
They didnt feckin sneak her out will.
Someone had to go in and restore order, just thank God it was the yanks and not the Iranians or the Brits, they might have forgotten to leave.
That remains to be seen
you were wrong, now be man enough and admit it. the US didnt set out to kill this child, please God she will do well..
mk, I have already updated people to see what had happened with the child. I don't as yet know if the US military relented on their refusal to let her travel to London or whether they were told what to do from above - I still want to know what the US government have to do with making decisions in Haiti though
now who would that be?
what happened here is simple imo, in order to stop children been removed from the country by people who wished to use them for adoptions etc the US (because no one else could) insisted that any children leaving the country had to have proper documentation. baby landina was an exception and as soon as that was cleared up off she went. no sinister uncle sam there but someone trying to restore order to a country destroyed and open to abuse. for those who think the US has a different agenda, nothing will change their minds.
Quote from: magickingdom on February 12, 2010, 10:02:40 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on February 12, 2010, 09:32:04 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on February 12, 2010, 09:28:27 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on February 12, 2010, 08:54:42 PM
Quote from: stew on February 12, 2010, 08:41:14 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on February 12, 2010, 08:37:35 PM
stew, I am not being evasive, I genuinely don't know what happened that she was allowed to go to London. I only mentioned her case in this thread as I thought it was the best place to put it
When I know more than the fact that she is in Great Ormonde Street getting treatment, I will let everyone know
Well said MK.
Does some of you think the yanks plan on staying in Haiti?
They didnt feckin sneak her out will.
Someone had to go in and restore order, just thank God it was the yanks and not the Iranians or the Brits, they might have forgotten to leave.
That remains to be seen
you were wrong, now be man enough and admit it. the US didnt set out to kill this child, please God she will do well..
mk, I have already updated people to see what had happened with the child. I don't as yet know if the US military relented on their refusal to let her travel to London or whether they were told what to do from above - I still want to know what the US government have to do with making decisions in Haiti though
now who would that be?
what happened here is simple imo, in order to stop children been removed from the country by people who wished to use them for adoptions etc the US (because no one else could) insisted that any children leaving the country had to have proper documentation. baby landina was an exception and as soon as that was cleared up off she went. no sinister uncle sam there but someone trying to restore order to a country destroyed and open to abuse. for those who think the US has a different agenda, nothing will change their minds.
Quote from: stew on February 12, 2010, 07:19:59 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 05, 2010, 01:06:56 AM
Quote from: muppet on February 04, 2010, 11:47:20 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 04, 2010, 10:48:55 PM
QuoteFunny that. Criticise US foreign policy and you are a US hater.
Nope...I've already covered that! it's the rest of the antagonistic horse shit piled on top of it!
QuoteExplore that a bit and even the NeoCons admit that Israel could be handled better and that Iraq was a disaster.
Yep....think we've settled that one also, so what's the excuse now with the continued bitterness and animosity?
Quotein conclusion we need to invade more strategically located/oil producing counties because their lunatics need liberating more than the other lunatics.
Leave the Lunatics in Mayo out of this :D
You seriously expect people to like murdering liars such as the NeoCons? Dictatorship regimes what's the difference actually...right?
Fcuk, Finally.... 22 pages later you f i n a l l y break down and admit that you do
indeed have underlying antipathy toward this Country in having such a vitriol point
of view... which evidently has overflowed to other aspects of what the US is about!
Shame really to go through life carrying such virulence for anyone or anything that doesn't
think, speak or share in your opinions!
Yet you have the audacity to call yourself a Pacifist ::)
Pacifism when it suits an agenda is not pacifism at all.
Pacifism
always suits someone's agenda.
By your logic pacifism can't exist. ::)
Do you mean 'Pacifism when it doesn't suit the NeoCons is not pacifism'?
Quote from: muppet on February 13, 2010, 12:33:27 PM
Quote from: stew on February 12, 2010, 07:19:59 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 05, 2010, 01:06:56 AM
Quote from: muppet on February 04, 2010, 11:47:20 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on February 04, 2010, 10:48:55 PM
QuoteFunny that. Criticise US foreign policy and you are a US hater.
Nope...I've already covered that! it's the rest of the antagonistic horse shit piled on top of it!
QuoteExplore that a bit and even the NeoCons admit that Israel could be handled better and that Iraq was a disaster.
Yep....think we've settled that one also, so what's the excuse now with the continued bitterness and animosity?
Quotein conclusion we need to invade more strategically located/oil producing counties because their lunatics need liberating more than the other lunatics.
Leave the Lunatics in Mayo out of this :D
You seriously expect people to like murdering liars such as the NeoCons? Dictatorship regimes what's the difference actually...right?
Fcuk, Finally.... 22 pages later you f i n a l l y break down and admit that you do
indeed have underlying antipathy toward this Country in having such a vitriol point
of view... which evidently has overflowed to other aspects of what the US is about!
Shame really to go through life carrying such virulence for anyone or anything that doesn't
think, speak or share in your opinions!
Yet you have the audacity to call yourself a Pacifist ::)
Pacifism when it suits an agenda is not pacifism at all.
Pacifism always suits someone's agenda.
By your logic pacifism can't exist. ::)
Do you mean 'Pacifism when it doesn't suit the NeoCons is not pacifism'?
Again with the neco cons jibe. I am not a neo con. Comprende?
The NeoCons are the US's warmongers.
You attack pacifism.
It is easy to make the link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4q1FlFe2yU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4q1FlFe2yU)
It's a long video (34 mins) but well worth watching. It is taking a while but people like this are getting the truth out of Haiti
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on February 28, 2010, 09:30:22 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4q1FlFe2yU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4q1FlFe2yU)
It's a long video (34 mins) but well worth watching. It is taking a while but people like this are getting the truth out of Haiti
Catch a grip FFS, yet more...............yawn.......... Al jazeera embedded reporting from the anti American
Socialist Network ::)
Should I save you the bother and set up a thread of how the US are somehow responsible either for the earthquake in Chile or possibly their yet to
be determined handling of the rescue efforts there, is that next?
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on February 28, 2010, 09:30:22 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4q1FlFe2yU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4q1FlFe2yU)
It's a long video (34 mins) but well worth watching. It is taking a while but people like this are getting the truth out of Haiti
Here I'll save you bother of posting this also but i would like your take on it, if it wouldn't be too much trouble.
And yes it's a simple old yahoo report from the AP and not
Fox News or some other right wing outfit!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100228/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/lt_chile_earthquake
TO, your pro-Yank intransigence shines through. Good man, you never fail to disappoint :-X
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on February 28, 2010, 09:36:06 PM
TO, your pro-Yank intransigence shines through. Good man, you never fail to disappoint :-X
:D :D What's extreme about my shining light and comparing boots on the ground to curb disent in Chile with the
unabated infatuation ye boy's have had with US "
transgressions" in Haiti ?
QuoteHere I'll save you bother of posting this also but i would like your take on it, if it wouldn't be too much trouble.
And so it clearly was too much for ye :-\