Proposals to accept Glasgow rivals Celtic and Rangers into an expanded Premier League will be put forward for consideration this week.
Bolton chairman Phil Gartside will pitch plans for a two-tier league of between 36 and 40 teams on Thursday.
It is understood there would be a top tier of 18 clubs, with promotion and relegation to and from the league.
Aston Villa manager Martin O'Neill and Spurs boss Harry Redknapp have backed the inclusion of the Scottish clubs.
Former Celtic manager O'Neill told BBC Radio 5 live: "I would like to see both teams in the Premier League. I think it would make the Premier League even stronger.
"I've been there, Celtic is just an unbelievable football club and Rangers also.
I would welcome Celtic and Rangers to English football if they wanted to play down here
Harry Redknapp
"I don't think for one minute the likes of ourselves, Aston Villa, would sit back and think 'well that's it', or just give up. I think all clubs would try and get stronger because of it."
Redknapp told the Daily Record: "I would welcome Celtic and Rangers to English football if they wanted to play down here.
"No doubt about it, I'm sure they would be good for the English game."
The proposals are a revival of Gartside's ideas which received a hostile reception from the Premier League's 20 chairmen six months ago.
However, Gartside, the driving force behind the revamp, has tweaked the original plans to include promotion and relegation to and from the dual-tier league, while the two Scottish clubs would initially be invited to join the lower tier.
The Bolton chairman is also believed to be open to inviting an Irish franchise into the league in the future.
Former Birmingham City chairman David Gold told BBC Radio 5 live that the Premier League needed "new thinking, new proposals, new ideas" to "save itself from itself".
However, Stoke owner Peter Coates said there was no need to change a league which was already an "enormous success".
"There is no indication that it [the Premier League] needs Rangers and Celtic to take it further," he said.
606: DEBATE
It would be at the expense of two established English teams and would disenfranchise many English fans
St_Godders
And BBC Sport's Dan Roan said the proposals would represent a "radical overhaul" of the pyramid structure.
"Gartside is one of the most powerful men in the English game," he told BBC Radio 5 live.
"He's one of the longest-serving chairmen in the Premier League, a man who sits on the FA board, one of just three professional representatives on the FA board, so I think it's fair to say that it's a serious proposal and deserves to be listened to."
It is understood club chairmen were invited last year to submit thoughts and ideas as part of a strategic review process looking at the future of the Premier League.
So the potential plan for expansion is Gartside's idea rather than coming from the Premier League as an organisation.
Thursday's meeting, which takes place between 1100 and 1400 GMT, will also consider the sponsorship deal agreed with Barclays in October, while the recent performances of referees may also be discussed.
This got a fair bit of coverage in the news today (maybe a quiet news day) but most of the talk is around Celtic and Rangers joining.
What do you think of the Irish franchise bit? Would it be north or South and would it be an existing club stepping up or would it be a brand new team in a new stadium?
Quote
The Bolton chairman is also believed to be open to inviting an Irish franchise into the league in the future.
Derry City?!
I think they should start in the Championship for a season,I also don't believe either would be promoted in their first season
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on November 11, 2009, 08:50:57 PM
I think they should start in the Championship for a season,I also don't believe either would be promoted in their first season
Not at the moment, they might get relegated.
As for an Irish team, that is a non starter, no club has the funds, players nor infrastructure to embark on such a journey.
It would be an interesting experiment however, I think they would get the crowds as long as they were playing premier league teams.
It wouldn't have to be an existing Irish club. Some business man would buy the rights to host a EPL team in Dublin. Assemble a squad and strike a deal with Lansdowne Rd. There would be big up front costs but it would make money over time.
Wasn't there a move during the 1990s to try and get Wimbledon FC to move to Dublin?
Quote from: Lecale2 on November 11, 2009, 11:51:19 PM
It wouldn't have to be an existing Irish club. Some business man would buy the rights to host a EPL team in Dublin. Assemble a squad and strike a deal with Lansdowne Rd. There would be big up front costs but it would make money over time.
What would UEFA say?
Quote from: Lecale2 on November 11, 2009, 11:51:19 PM
It wouldn't have to be an existing Irish club. Some business man would buy the rights to host a EPL team in Dublin. Assemble a squad and strike a deal with Lansdowne Rd. There would be big up front costs but it would make money over time.
In my opinion Irish people aren't interested in seeing live soccer . The struggle to get 50k for internationals.
QuoteThe struggle to get 50k for internationals.
There'll be a bit more than that in Croker on Sat
Quote from: Gnevin on November 12, 2009, 12:22:25 AM
Quote from: Lecale2 on November 11, 2009, 11:51:19 PM
It wouldn't have to be an existing Irish club. Some business man would buy the rights to host a EPL team in Dublin. Assemble a squad and strike a deal with Lansdowne Rd. There would be big up front costs but it would make money over time.
In my opinion Irish people aren't interested in seeing live soccer . The struggle to get 50k for internationals.
Probably the best part of 50K travelling over to Manchester, Liverpool, London and Glasgow every weekend FFS.
I would love to see this happening, perhaps with a 'super club' formed in both Dublin and Belfast, and maybe even Cork at a stretch. Having 2 or 3 teams, like rugby, is the only way there's ever going to be sustainable professional soccer on this island. It won't happen anytime soon though, but eventually money will talk and either this or some sort of Atlantic super league will be established.
Quote from: Declan on November 12, 2009, 08:21:38 AM
QuoteThe struggle to get 50k for internationals.
There'll be a bit more than that in Croker on Sat
Big one off. In general I think any Irish club in this new structure would be doomed. There is no market for it, especially if they started in the second tier. You'd get plenty of Irish at a Man United, Liverpool or Arsenal match. They wouldn't be supporting the Irish team though.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 12, 2009, 08:54:38 AM
Quote from: Declan on November 12, 2009, 08:21:38 AM
QuoteThe struggle to get 50k for internationals.
There'll be a bit more than that in Croker on Sat
Big one off. In general I think any Irish club in this new structure would be doomed. There is no market for it, especially if they started in the second tier. You'd get plenty of Irish at a Man United, Liverpool or Arsenal match. They wouldn't be supporting the Irish team though.
Over a period of time the less 'die hard' Liverpool, United fans etc. would soon turn to support an Irish team I would imagine, especially when you think of the whole media furore there would be in this country surrounding it. Young kids who have only just pledged allegience to a team would be easy targets.
Quote from: Rafa on November 12, 2009, 09:27:02 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 12, 2009, 08:54:38 AM
Quote from: Declan on November 12, 2009, 08:21:38 AM
QuoteThe struggle to get 50k for internationals.
There'll be a bit more than that in Croker on Sat
Big one off. In general I think any Irish club in this new structure would be doomed. There is no market for it, especially if they started in the second tier. You'd get plenty of Irish at a Man United, Liverpool or Arsenal match. They wouldn't be supporting the Irish team though.
Over a period of time the less 'die hard' Liverpool, United fans etc. would soon turn to support an Irish team I would imagine, especially when you think of the whole media furore there would be in this country surrounding it. Young kids who have only just pledged allegience to a team would be easy targets.
The less 'die hard' supporters are only going to follow a winning team and unless the Irish francise could win a trophy in the first few seasons it'd be doomed long term.
Get Roy Keane to manage them and you'd soon have a load of idiots following them a la Sunderland.
The FAI said no to the Dublin Dons in the 90's and would say no today. Its a non runner.
Quote from: dublinfella on November 12, 2009, 09:50:24 AM
The FAI said no to the Dublin Dons in the 90's and would say no today. Its a non runner.
Why do the FAI have such a say in it? Is that something to do with UEFA?
For the record I hate all these new proposals. FFS if it's not broke don't fix it!!!
It's just a way for the Boltons & co. to ensure long term financial stability as even if they were relegated from the 'Top Tier', which by the way I think the proposal is only one up one down, then they would still have stable significant TV revenue in the 'Bottom Tier'.
The whole ethos of League football is built around the premise of promotion and relegation, the fact that there is so much at stake for clubs who may fall out of the Premier League and equally clubs that are desperately trying to get into it is what makes it so exciting!
My understanding also is that initially these 'Tiers' will be decided on stuff like ground sizes, attendances and finances. That is wholly wrong. As soon as you start determining clubs positions on anything other than pure match results then the whole competition will have lost its appeal for me as we'll be on a slippery slope to some sort of American style MLS.
Quote from: Rafa on November 12, 2009, 09:58:35 AM
Quote from: dublinfella on November 12, 2009, 09:50:24 AM
The FAI said no to the Dublin Dons in the 90's and would say no today. Its a non runner.
For the record I hate all these new proposals. FFS if it's not broke don't fix it!!!
Spot on.
Quote from: Rafa on November 12, 2009, 09:58:35 AM
Why do the FAI have such a say in it? Is that something to do with UEFA?
Because the games would be played in their juristiction and as such they would have to sanction them.
It would be a suicidal move for them so thats that.
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on November 11, 2009, 08:50:57 PM
I think they should start in the Championship for a season,I also don't believe either would be promoted in their first season
both teams wud need to invest on players to get out of the championship with their current squads, however with celtic in a much better financial position i think they would push the boat out with the 4 or 5 good signings for one season if it meant promotion to the lucrative premiership
all hypothetical though as i cant see it ever happening
Quote from: Clown on November 12, 2009, 10:55:15 AM
both teams wud need to invest on players to get out of the championship with their current squads, however with celtic in a much better financial position i think they would push the boat out with the 4 or 5 good signings for one season if it meant promotion to the lucrative premiership
all hypothetical though as i cant see it ever happening
The points of entry to the English Leagues are at League 2 or the EPL. You can't land in the middle.
Quote from: dublinfella on November 12, 2009, 11:20:01 AM
Quote from: Clown on November 12, 2009, 10:55:15 AM
both teams wud need to invest on players to get out of the championship with their current squads, however with celtic in a much better financial position i think they would push the boat out with the 4 or 5 good signings for one season if it meant promotion to the lucrative premiership
all hypothetical though as i cant see it ever happening
The points of entry to the English Leagues are at League 2 or the EPL. You can't land in the middle.
That doesn't make sense?
Why would it be more acceptable to enter the PL than the Championship? Have the Championship not gone in a similar direction as the PL recently in marketing themselves away from the Football League.
Quote from: Rafa on November 12, 2009, 11:42:19 AM
That doesn't make sense?
Why would it be more acceptable to enter the PL than the Championship? Have the Championship not gone in a similar direction as the PL recently in marketing themselves away from the Football League.
The EPL is a seperate company with an agreement with the English league to allow three teams in and out. Ditto the English league has a similar agreement with the Conference. However this is non binding as we have seen Conference clubs not be promoted due to stadia issues.
If the EPL decide to admit Celtic and Rangers, they are perfectly entitled to do so. Ditto the English League but that would be at League 2 level.
Quote from: dublinfella on November 12, 2009, 11:53:39 AM
Quote from: Rafa on November 12, 2009, 11:42:19 AM
That doesn't make sense?
Why would it be more acceptable to enter the PL than the Championship? Have the Championship not gone in a similar direction as the PL recently in marketing themselves away from the Football League.
The EPL is a seperate company with an agreement with the English league to allow three teams in and out. Ditto the English league has a similar agreement with the Conference. However this is non binding as we have seen Conference clubs not be promoted due to stadia issues.
If the EPL decide to admit Celtic and Rangers, they are perfectly entitled to do so. Ditto the English League but that would be at League 2 level.
Interesting.
If it was to happen they should lump them into League 2, see how they like it.
Edit: Said 'we should' instead of 'they should' for some reason originally.
No go for Celtic or Rangers into the EPL and they are putting EPL Leg. 2 on the long finger.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/8357262.stm
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 12, 2009, 03:23:52 PM
No go for Celtic or Rangers into the EPL and they are putting EPL Leg. 2 on the long finger.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/8357262.stm
But attitudes within the EPL are mellowing, still a NO but with more backing for a positive this time.
Rangers made a loss of 15 million this year so they will be hoping it is sooner rather than later.
Heard a guy from a supporters club that they are hoping to go to a membersd ownership ala Barcelona. How are Celtic's finances?
Would the EPL really want all the sectarian baggage that comes along with Celtic and Rangers? Leave them in the Scottish League I say.