Was in Belfast over the weekend. On the way home we kinda lost our way a bit so ended up taking a slightly scenic route and going through some small towns/villages such as Scarva in Down and a few more.
The thing that struck me going through these towns is all of the Union Jacks,Ulster,UVF etc flags in a lot of the towns.
I'm just wondering is it the case in the North that a lot of the towns are nearly exclusively Protestant or exclusively Catholic or are these towns mainly mixed but the protestant community in these towns puts flags up or what's the story?
Driving through Armagh city there were Union Jacks everywhere - I didn't realise this was a mainly protestant city?
Am just curious about this as I have only been in the North 2 or 3 times so it is strange for me to see this.
We actually stopped in Scarva to grab a bite to eat and only noticed all the flags and people outside the pubs wearing Rangers jerseys etc when we got out of the car. It was actually a little intimidating as Southerners so we decided to keep moving :)
This is unionists' pethetic method of marking their territory/stirring up tension, regardless of whether they are in majority or not. Sometimes you just have to humour the tubes, let them put their wee flags up, and hope they get taken down before the end of autumn.
Quote from: galwayman on August 30, 2009, 05:26:53 PM
Driving through Armagh city there were Union Jacks everywhere - I didn't realise this was a mainly protestant city?
Armagh would actually be about 70% Catholic I think.
I spent a lot of time up around North Antrim this summer and the number of tourists from the south was very noticeable. Another thing that was very noticeable was the appearance of places like Armoy and Bushmills. This area has some of the best natural scenery in the country and has a lot of tourism potential, but you'd think a few community leaders up around there would have the cop on to advise the locals to tone down all that shite. Even as a northerner who'd be familiar enough with this stuff it was intimidating enough, so I can't imagine it makes much of a positive impression on those travelling from further afield.
Quote from: AFS on August 30, 2009, 05:51:27 PM
I spent a lot of time up around North Antrim this summer and the number of tourists from the south was very noticeable. Another thing that was very noticeable was the appearance of places like Armoy and Bushmills. This area has some of the best natural scenery in the country and has a lot of tourism potential, but you'd think a few community leaders up around there would have the cop on to advise the locals to tone down all that shite. Even as a northerner who'd be familiar enough with this stuff it was intimidating enough, so I can't imagine it makes much of a positive impression on those travelling from further afield.
Bushmills brewery weren't long toning it down when the financial squeeze came from Irish America. I believe it says brewed in Co Antrim on the back of the bottle now.
Was talkin to a friend of mine yesterday from Crossgar in Down who was tellin me that the place was covered in union jacks and the like with a parade coming up. Now this place is 75 percent catholic if not more since 2001 and I made the comparison with neighbouring ballynahinch which would be around 33-35 percent catholic, and the thought of it being covered in tricolours and a nationalist parade going through the town centre was totally unthinkable. But sure it's all just a bit of culture..
Sadly, our island is full of people who are not content in knowing who they are and what they stand for, unless they constantly shoving it down the throats of everyone they meet.
Quote from: fitzroyalty on August 30, 2009, 05:34:08 PM
This is unionists' pethetic method of marking their territory/stirring up tension, regardless of whether they are in majority or not. Sometimes you just have to humour the tubes, let them put their wee flags up, and hope they get taken down before the end of autumn.
The increase in stabbings won't help tourism in Mayo but try telling that to the idiots.
Quote from: fingerbob on August 30, 2009, 08:26:01 PM
Was talkin to a friend of mine yesterday from Crossgar in Down who was tellin me that the place was covered in union jacks and the like with a parade coming up. Now this place is 75 percent catholic if not more since 2001 and I made the comparison with neighbouring ballynahinch which would be around 33-35 percent catholic, and the thought of it being covered in tricolours and a nationalist parade going through the town centre was totally unthinkable. But sure it's all just a bit of culture..
I was in Comber the other day, and it is bedecked with unionist flags, all summer. Yet some politicians hyperventilate at a single hungerstrike commemeration in a field in Tyrone.
Quote from: galwayman on August 30, 2009, 05:26:53 PM
Was in Belfast over the weekend. On the way home we kinda lost our way a bit so ended up taking a slightly scenic route and going through some small towns/villages such as Scarva in Down and a few more.
The thing that struck me going through these towns is all of the Union Jacks,Ulster,UVF etc flags in a lot of the towns.
I'm just wondering is it the case in the North that a lot of the towns are nearly exclusively Protestant or exclusively Catholic or are these towns mainly mixed but the protestant community in these towns puts flags up or what's the story?
Driving through Armagh city there were Union Jacks everywhere - I didn't realise this was a mainly protestant city?
Am just curious about this as I have only been in the North 2 or 3 times so it is strange for me to see this.
We actually stopped in Scarva to grab a bite to eat and only noticed all the flags and people outside the pubs wearing Rangers jerseys etc when we got out of the car. It was actually a little intimidating as Southerners so we decided to keep moving :)
Coming through Armagh today you would probably have been held up as those feckers from the GAA were parading through the city!
Quote from: Orior on August 30, 2009, 08:40:51 PM
I was in Comber the other day, and it is bedecked with unionist flags, all summer. Yet some politicians hyperventilate at a single hungerstrike commemeration in a field in Tyrone.
But at least comber is majority unionist. The point I'm making is that crossgar is 75% catholic and yet it is seemed alright to subject the people of the village to the parade (while if it was vice versa it would probably make the news and cause alot of trouble) and on top of that close the main road from belfast to downpatrick for a few hours which directed me directly as the woman was held up for half an hour by it and I had ordered a chinese for her to pick up before I knew about it and ended up getting it nearly an hour later and it was luke warm!! >:(
Quote from: fingerbob on August 30, 2009, 09:21:03 PM
Quote from: Orior on August 30, 2009, 08:40:51 PM
I was in Comber the other day, and it is bedecked with unionist flags, all summer. Yet some politicians hyperventilate at a single hungerstrike commemeration in a field in Tyrone.
But at least comber is majority unionist. The point I'm making is that crossgar is 75% catholic and yet it is seemed alright to subject the people of the village to the parade (while if it was vice versa it would probably make the news and cause alot of trouble) and on top of that close the main road from belfast to downpatrick for a few hours which directed me directly as the woman was held up for half an hour by it and I had ordered a chinese for her to pick up before I knew about it and ended up getting it nearly an hour later and it was luke warm!! >:(
jaysus fingerbob, if that has you angry, I wouldn't like to see you with something really wrong!
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on August 30, 2009, 10:01:19 PM
jaysus fingerbob, if that has you angry, I wouldn't like to see you with something really wrong!
:D I think it was more the lack of chinese that rattled my cage!
The old saying a bout the smaller the house the bigger the flag comes to mind.
Our village would be richly mixed, however though we do have streamers up for one week each year. We tell the tourists its for a festival. Each year we see less and less streamers. Which is some comparison to fifteen years ago. Over all it seems to be dying even the local Protestant population don't seem to be bothered with it anymore. It can make life uncomfortable for everyone in such a small confined area. On the other hand I couldn't imagine putting up green ones I would be totally embarrassed.
If you travel round North Antrim places like Cushendall, Glenarrife, Ballycastle, Cushendun which would be mostly pro Irish don't have their towns covered in flags and graffiti. Compare this to Mosside, Dervock, Bushmills, Armoy etc which would be pro British towns are claried in rhetoric which it makes it look untidy and unsightly. Surprised some of the community leaders in these areas didn't take more of a stand in cleaning the area up.
Quote from: thewobbler on August 30, 2009, 08:34:36 PM
Sadly, our island is full of people who are not content in knowing who they are and what they stand for, unless they constantly shoving it down the throats of everyone they meet.
God I hate that Cork crowd!
(http://peoplesrepublicofcork.buy.ie/catalog/images/PRC_redtshirt.JPG)
;)
Quote from: fingerbob on August 30, 2009, 10:30:27 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on August 30, 2009, 10:01:19 PM
jaysus fingerbob, if that has you angry, I wouldn't like to see you with something really wrong!
:D I think it was more the lack of chinese that rattled my cage!
:D
Quote from: AFS on August 30, 2009, 05:42:17 PM
Quote from: galwayman on August 30, 2009, 05:26:53 PM
Driving through Armagh city there were Union Jacks everywhere - I didn't realise this was a mainly protestant city?
Armagh would actually be about 70% Catholic I think.
There is something that puzzles me about Armagh and places further west and maybe some of the Nordie posters here could help me out.
I used to do a bit of rugby coaching at a school in Dublin (17 and 18 year olds) and one club in East Belfast couldn't do enough to help me out in any way it could. This was Malone and I had a lot of contacts there in my own playing days. Fair enough, a lot of the bigger rugby schools in Dublin, mainly the Proddy ones, were very helpful also and would put out one of their third or fourth sides to give us a game but I have to say the club in East Belfast not only made me and my gang welcome but went out of the way to make contact with any youth side, college or not, from the Republic.
I knew the area is a solid loyalist one but I could never say anything negative about the club; we were advised to drive straight there and to head directly for the border when we were leaving. Apart from that I had no problems at all.
Now what puzzles me is this:
Some of the alicadoos there told me they could line up other youth sides if I wanted to play other teams in the north but the advice was to stick to east of the Bann at all times. The further west I went, the greater the chances of hostility would be, if you know what I mean.
Armagh in particular was a place to shun as a southern school bus was likely to be stoned out of the place and Derry was likely to be even worse.
I would have thought the opposite would be the place but I took the advice I got and I never had any problems bringing a bus with the name of the school in Irish and English emblazoned on the sides, through some strong Unionist areas.
Is it a case that the anti republic hostility is greatest where the Unionists are in a minority and that it becomes more obvious the further you travel west?
I have to say these lads putting up the flags etc are just making the point about how they really don't belong on this island. There were a lot of anglo prod types down here before 1922, but a lot left because they have no real ties to this island. They were here on British government money and contracts and military types etc. and they were not long for the road after 1922. the same I feel will happen to a lot of those union jack types up the north. If the job and the welfare goes they won't be long in following. If there is a United Ireland they won't be long heading back across the water.
In the 70s and 80s Malone RFC allegedly had a few 'Politically colourful' characters but in terms of rugby it wouldn't have been an issue for a team from the Republic to visit or have strong relationships with teams from NI regardless of the community backgrounds of the clubs. I think this would be the same for all clubs in NI. There was more of a problem with the security of some players travelling south due to their jobs.
Btw, being pro-British doesn't mean anti-Republic of Ireland. Bushmills is always decorated during the summer and has been for many years. I frequent the area throughout the summer and I think I've noticed more southern registered cars and buses in the area this year than previously. This has been a growing trend over the last decade. Loads of other Euro countires too and the yanks love the area due to the golf courses nearby. I wouldn't get too hung up about the flags etc and don't think many tourists do either. At this time of year around towns it's the same but I suppose there is some merit in the view that for those feeling more vulnerable or under threat, there is a tendency to put the flags out in abundance. Bushmills can't really be seen as a minority area though could it? Crossgar was probably just decorated more than usual due to the big 'Last Saturday' parade this weekend.
As for Bushmills, did they not sponsor Antrim Gaelic sides until recently? I imagine they'd write Made in Europe/Ireland/Antrim/Northern Ireland/UK/The North/Here/Near-an-overrated-rock-formation/ Backarseofnowhere (delete as appropriate) if it made commercial sense depending on their target market. Couldn't blame them for any description but I wouldn't read much into it either.
Would you not admit Roger that flags and bunting make areas look tacky/dirty and rough (especially after a few weeks and they start getting tatty).
There was a show on last night on TG4 about Iris Robinson's beliefs.
A fella from the south who was gay kept visiting her office to see if he could get "help". One thing that struck me was that TG4 interviewed him in Irish outside the Unionist office in loyalist heartland.
It struck me that it didn't seem to matter now whereas a few years ago there would be big trouble. Bassed on that I'm not sure people care so much any more.
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 31, 2009, 11:15:40 AM
There was a show on last night on TG4 about Iris Robinson's beliefs.
A fella from the south who was gay kept visiting her office to see if he could get "help". One thing that struck me was that TG4 interviewed him in Irish outside the Unionist office in loyalist heartland.
It struck me that it didn't seem to matter now whereas a few years ago there would be big trouble. Bassed on that I'm not sure people care so much any more.
Doubt that there'd be much danger when a TV crew is about.
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on August 31, 2009, 11:01:30 AM
Would you not admit Roger that flags and bunting make areas look tacky/dirty and rough (especially after a few weeks and they start getting tatty).
I would readily admit it.
Quote from: Roger on August 31, 2009, 01:54:24 PM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on August 31, 2009, 11:01:30 AM
Would you not admit Roger that flags and bunting make areas look tacky/dirty and rough (especially after a few weeks and they start getting tatty).
I would readily admit it.
Especially if those flags and buntings are orange and white.
I was driving through Tamlaght in Co Fermanagh and there were Union Jacks everywhere. I know it's a small village, but I've never seen as much flags in the one area before.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on August 31, 2009, 03:51:02 PM
I was driving through Tamlaght in Co Fermanagh and there were Union Jacks everywhere. I know it's a small village, but I've never seen as much flags in the one area before.
A Protestant lives there.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on August 31, 2009, 05:54:14 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on August 31, 2009, 03:51:02 PM
I was driving through Tamlaght in Co Fermanagh and there were Union Jacks everywhere. I know it's a small village, but I've never seen as much flags in the one area before.
A Protestant lives there.
I get it now. Sure one of my best friend's a Protestant too.
driving up the mall, barack street and out the newry road does not constitiute driving through armagh city
2/3rds of armagh would be considered catholic areas with 1/3 protestant
I know i never shopped a day in my life in barrack street or purchased any food there
nor would you get many protestants in Micky Kellys (though there are exceptions)
I was hoping someone would have tried the "One side is as bad as the other" argument.
Sometimes I miss SammyG.
Not often though.
Quote from: The Iceman on August 31, 2009, 08:12:32 PM
driving up the mall, barack street and out the newry road does not constitiute driving through armagh city
2/3rds of armagh would be considered catholic areas with 1/3 protestant
I know i never shopped a day in my life in barrack street or purchased any food there
nor would you get many protestants in Micky Kellys (though there are exceptions)
I've bought plenty on Barrack St. Have I let Ireland down?
Quote from: Tony Baloney on August 31, 2009, 05:54:14 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on August 31, 2009, 03:51:02 PM
I was driving through Tamlaght in Co Fermanagh and there were Union Jacks everywhere. I know it's a small village, but I've never seen as much flags in the one area before.
A Protestant lives there.
LOL
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 31, 2009, 11:15:40 AM
There was a show on last night on TG4 about Iris Robinson's beliefs.
A fella from the south who was gay kept visiting her office to see if he could get "help". One thing that struck me was that TG4 interviewed him in Irish outside the Unionist office in loyalist heartland.
It struck me that it didn't seem to matter now whereas a few years ago there would be big trouble. Bassed on that I'm not sure people care so much any more.
The locals probably thought it was Ulster Scots!
Quote from: Orior on August 31, 2009, 11:03:07 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on August 31, 2009, 05:54:14 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on August 31, 2009, 03:51:02 PM
I was driving through Tamlaght in Co Fermanagh and there were Union Jacks everywhere. I know it's a small village, but I've never seen as much flags in the one area before.
A Protestant lives there.
LOL
Agree, very good Tony. :D
Quote from: Tony Baloney on August 31, 2009, 09:14:54 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on August 31, 2009, 08:12:32 PM
driving up the mall, barack street and out the newry road does not constitiute driving through armagh city
2/3rds of armagh would be considered catholic areas with 1/3 protestant
I know i never shopped a day in my life in barrack street or purchased any food there
nor would you get many protestants in Micky Kellys (though there are exceptions)
I've bought plenty on Barrack St. Have I let Ireland down?
You can shop where you like Tony - it's usually the protestant shops that stock waist 40 and above ;)
I was just making the point that Armagh town/city is not the loyalist den the original poster made it out to be.
Quote from: galwayman on August 30, 2009, 05:26:53 PM
Driving through Armagh city there were Union Jacks everywhere - I didn't realise this was a mainly protestant city?
Blatant lie to make a point.
As has been pointed out, Barrack Street, the Mall at the Gaol and Barrack Hill are really the only areas with flags etc up.
Try going out the Friary Rd if you want to see the real flags of Mother Ireland ::)
Quote from: Tonto on September 01, 2009, 04:05:43 PM
Quote from: galwayman on August 30, 2009, 05:26:53 PM
Driving through Armagh city there were Union Jacks everywhere - I didn't realise this was a mainly protestant city?
Blatant lie to make a point.
As has been pointed out, Barrack Street, the Mall at the Gaol and Barrack Hill are really the only areas with flags etc up.
Try going out the Friary Rd if you want to see the real flags of Mother Ireland ::)
And what would those be Tonto?
QuoteBlatant lie to make a point.
Actually it's not a lie. It is merely a statement of what I saw whilst driving to Belfast last weekend and going via Armagh. Maybe I only drove through a small part of the city - I don't know - as it was my first time in the place and I'm not overly familiar with it. The area I drove through has Union Jacks everywhere - that is a fact.
"a protestant city" an understandable - if mistaken - conclusion for a first-timer in Armagh to reach if you drive through it from Newry/Dublin and out to Portadown/Belfast, the locals in that part of town have always been enthusiastic about their flags during the summer. Most of Armagh - 69/70% at the last elections IIRC - however would not be of the unionist persuasion.
Up Armagh
ps you know those orange and white flags are not unionist or loyalist?
As some posters have said, if you travelled through Armagh at the minute you'd reasonably assume that it's predominantly Unionist/Protestant/Loyalist. It goes to show the penchant there is in that community for marking their territory.
Having said that the likes of Umgola etc. aren't behind the door in making their allegiance known on the green side of the house.
Iceman you must be thinking of the other Tony. I'm still a bit shy of the 40" mark, although that Chinese from East tonight won't help.
TYP, I take it you remember the wee sweet shop Websters on Barrack Street? The wee woman who owned it was lovely. I bought a 1/4 of lemon sherbets in there every chance I got
Quote"a protestant city" an understandable - if mistaken - conclusion for a first-timer in Armagh
If Armagh city is such a Nationalist place why doesn't it have a competitive GAA club. ???
Quote from: armaghniac on September 01, 2009, 10:56:01 PM
Quote"a protestant city" an understandable - if mistaken - conclusion for a first-timer in Armagh
If Armagh city is such a Nationalist place why doesn't it have a competitive GAA club. ???
You could ask the same about Derry and Belfast (moreso for hurling)
http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/sea0624l.jpg (http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/sea0624l.jpg)
The difference
what did you buy on Barrack Street a Bada Bing or a pint of Guinness in the Victoria?
Quote from: sammymaguire on September 02, 2009, 01:30:40 PM
what did you buy on Barrack Street a Bada Bing or a pint of Guinness in the Victoria?
Who me? Been in Bada Bing many a time. Let's just say the Victoria wouldn't be my cup of tea! I've bought paint in The Paint Shop and have got a hoover fixed in Kilpatrick's.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 02, 2009, 01:36:07 PM
Quote from: sammymaguire on September 02, 2009, 01:30:40 PM
what did you buy on Barrack Street a Bada Bing or a pint of Guinness in the Victoria?
Who me? Been in Bada Bing many a time. Let's just say the Victoria wouldn't be my cup of tea! I've bought paint in The Paint Shop and have got a hoover fixed in Kilpatrick's.
I never felt too comfortable in barrack street especially in the evenings. I remember several near run-ins with locals when I would be at the Cantonese. Maybe things have changed these days but I doubt there are too many Catholics/nationalists frequenting the Victoria bar at any time of the day
Quote from: The Iceman on September 02, 2009, 02:17:44 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 02, 2009, 01:36:07 PM
Quote from: sammymaguire on September 02, 2009, 01:30:40 PM
what did you buy on Barrack Street a Bada Bing or a pint of Guinness in the Victoria?
Who me? Been in Bada Bing many a time. Let's just say the Victoria wouldn't be my cup of tea! I've bought paint in The Paint Shop and have got a hoover fixed in Kilpatrick's.
I never felt too comfortable in barrack street especially in the evenings. I remember several near run-ins with locals when I would be at the Cantonese. Maybe things have changed these days but I doubt there are too many Catholics/nationalists frequenting the Victoria bar at any time of the day
I would say zero is the figure. With the demise of Spider's and Orr's Corner the area is more hospitable now. Means though that the Armagh prod doesn't have much in the way of watering holes -Victoria and Hole in the Wall being the main ones I'd say. I'm more a McKenna's man myself.
Can the City Hotel be given any credit for buying Orr's Corner, taking the License, and closing it down?
It did remove some of the trouble late at night from the hotel when Orr's clients would move to the Hotel at closing time.....
I think a lot of protestants would drink in the theatre bar? I know it was definitely the cross community bar for all the trendys when I was home.
McKennas is as good a bar as you will get though the clientele.....another story ;)
Quote from: The Iceman on September 02, 2009, 04:20:22 PM
Can the City Hotel be given any credit for buying Orr's Corner, taking the License, and closing it down?
It did remove some of the trouble late at night from the hotel when Orr's clients would move to the Hotel at closing time.....
I think a lot of protestants would drink in the theatre bar? I know it was definitely the cross community bar for all the trendys when I was home.
McKennas is as good a bar as you will get though the clientele.....another story ;)
Theatre bar would get a cross community clientele although more middle class "trendies" from both camps as you say. Yer loyalist bandsman/Rangers fan would be found in the Victoria. The hotel used to cut up rough there a couple of years ago when the loyalist boozers moved to there but a bus load of Galway lads hospitalised a few tight men up to cause trouble. Seems things have quietened down since :)
Don't get to McKenna's that often these days so I'm sure the clientele isn't as good as it could be!
Quote from: armaghniac on September 01, 2009, 10:56:01 PM
Quote"a protestant city" an understandable - if mistaken - conclusion for a first-timer in Armagh
If Armagh city is such a Nationalist place why doesn't it have a competitive GAA club. ???
hmmm. on the contrary, I can't think of any other mainly nationalist town/urban area in the North that has stronger more competitive clubs within their counties than the Ogs and the Harps, not to mention the Cuchullains.
help me out here Armaghniac, examples of leading competitive clubs within their counties from Newry, Derry, Dungannon, Omagh, Cookstown, Downpatrick, Enniskillen, Strabane? most of those towns bar Enniskillen, Lurgan maybe, struggle to have even one leading or competitive club never mind two plus a decent hurling club
True enough. slagging aside. Actually Armagh's success in GAA, such as it is, is partly based on a good level of GAA in the bigger towns, something our neighbours in Louth and Derry don't have (for instance).
Perhaps it will all be different by 9pm on Saturday!