I see there is going to be a leaflet campaign in support of the teacher.
Teacher questioned over attempted murder of school pupil
Jul 10 2009
A SCIENCE teacher was being quizzed last night on suspicion of attempting to murder one of his pupils in a classroom full of children.
Peter Harvey, 49, allegedly hit 14-year-old Jack Waterhouse in the head with a metal weight from a set of scales.
He is then said to have stood over the youngster and struck him again with the weight as he lay bleeding on the ground.
Harvey is also suspected of assaulting two other pupils during the same incident. Reports claim he was off work with stress earlier this year.
Jack was very seriously ill last night in a specialist head injuries unit with his frantic parents at his bedside.
More than 20 kids were in Harvey's class at All Saints' Roman Catholic School in Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, when Jack suffered multiple head injuries at about 11am on Wednesday.
The incident is said to have started when a girl pupil swore at Harvey, saying "F*** off, you bald c***". She is then said to have ripped a textbook.
Unconscious
At the end of the class, Harvey allegedly kicked the girl's bag and said something like: "If you're going to damage school property, school is going to damage your property."
Jack is said to have intervened and sworn at Harvey.
The teacher then allegedly grabbed the weight and hit Jack on the forehead with it, before hitting him again on the ground.
Two other pupils allegedly intervened to restrain Harvey and help was called.
Paramedics found Jack unconscious in a pool of blood in the classroom doorway.
He was taken to hospital in Mansfield, then moved to the head injuries unit at the Queen's Medical Centre in Nottingham as his condition worsened.
There was grave concern for Jack's life on Wednesday night but his condition had improved slightly by yesterday.
The other two kids allegedly assaulted by Harvey, a boy and girl of 14, did not have to go to hospital and were back at school yesterday.
Harvey was being held at a police station last night.
Detectives have until 8.15pm today to charge or release him or ask for more time to question him.
Harvey is a married father of two and both his daughters go to All Saints'.
His wife Samantha was being comforted by a friend yesterday at the family's detached home a mile from the school. The pal said: "I don't think she could cope with saying anything right now. She is very, very upset."
Harvey's pupils knew him affectionately as "The Nutty Professor" because of his eccentric character.
But some kids said they were surprised to see him back at work after his absence with stress.
One pupil said: "He'd been off for the best part of the year. They said the pressure of the job had got to him."
Former pupils at All Saints' said Harvey was good at his job and popular with the kids.
Chris Holmes, 19, said: "He was an all right teacher and a decent guy.
"Most teachers can lose their temper. Obviously, he lost it from time to time but nothing like this happened before."
Another 19-year-old, Tom Blythe, described Harvey as "a bit of a legend" and added: "He would grow a beard and wacky moustaches. He was a real eccentric.
"He was into science and he loved the arts, especially musicals.
"He loved getting involved with drama productions. I never saw him lose his rag. He'd shout at you but he never got physical."
More former pupils left glowing reports about Harvey on the "ratemyteacher" website.
One described him as "one of the best", and another recalled his "great enthusiasm and scientific mind".
A third pupil wrote: "He made science fun."
A team of 12 police officers spoke to youngsters from Harvey's class on Wednesday night. The kids' parents were present during the interviews.
Forensics experts examined the blood-spattered classroom.
Det Supt Adrian Pearson confirmed a weapon was used in the incident and said there were "a number of witnesses".
He added: "Obviously, the whole class is traumatised. The school, the teachers and the parents are absolutely shocked.
"People send their children to this school from great distances because of its academic record."
Mr Pearson added: "It was a full, lively classroom. We have a full picture of what has taken place.
"We have arrested a 49-year-old man on suspicion of attempted murder and two counts of assault."
Parents at the school gates yesterday were still struggling to take in what had happened. One dad said: "It's a massive shock."
All Saints' describes itself as a "lively, Catholic comprehensive with a very special, warm ethos".
It opened in 1974 and has around 1100 pupils.
All Saints' got a satisfactory rating in its last inspection last year. Forty-five per cent of pupils got five good GCSEs, including English and maths.
The teacher was probably on a big come-down from his week-end coke-binge.
They let anyone teach these days.....
The incident is said to have started when a girl pupil swore at Harvey, saying "F*** off, you bald c***". She is then said to have ripped a textbook.
It looks like the guy flipped...what would you have done ? What is an appropriate response to "F*** off, you bald c***" ?
not be a teacher?
I hope none of Shane O'Neill's pupils have urged him to "Fc.k off you b..d c..t!" even if I have done so for the last 7 or 8 years ;D
There are a lot of teachers on here, this could be a long one.
Get a good quality wig?? or hair implants!! :-X
Quote from: corn02 on July 10, 2009, 11:46:11 AM
There are a lot of teachers on here, this could be a long one.
I would say any self respecting 14 year old would give a pasting to any of the teachers on here.
Quote from: corn02 on July 10, 2009, 11:46:11 AM
There are a lot of teachers on here, this could be a long one.
I don't think anybody is going to be defending the teacher here. Assuming what's been said said in the article is true, the man just lost it. No matter what the provocation (and I've heard of far far worse provocation), you simply can't react physically. To react in this manner is inexcuseable and indefensible. While the teacher concerned may not be a bad person and the behaviour may be out of character, he clearly deserves to lose his job. The attempted murder charge seems a bit much so assuming the kid ends up ok I'd say he'll end up being convicted of grievous bodily harm.
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on July 10, 2009, 12:06:05 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 10, 2009, 11:46:11 AM
There are a lot of teachers on here, this could be a long one.
I don't think anybody going to be defending the teacher here.
Underneath the original story there are posts defending him, there will also be a leafletting campaign for him. I can't believe they could like, but there will be peple defending, but, as you say, people should have more sense here.
The teacher deserves to be sacked. 14 year old probably deserves to be expelled but wont be.
Quote from: corn02 on July 10, 2009, 12:20:31 PM
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on July 10, 2009, 12:06:05 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 10, 2009, 11:46:11 AM
There are a lot of teachers on here, this could be a long one.
I don't think anybody going to be defending the teacher here.
Underneath the original story there are posts defending him, there will also be a leafletting campaign for him. I can't believe they could like, but there will be peple defending, but, as you say, people should have more sense here.
You have great faith Corn!
Quote from: thebandit on July 10, 2009, 12:23:30 PM
The teacher deserves to be sacked. 14 year old probably deserves to be expelled but wont be.
Correct
If you follow down the route of a teaching career, you know you're going to face situations like that. If you cannot control your emotions under severe provocation, do something else.
I thought I read he was off for a long period before that with stress. You cannot touch a pupil though. You cannot win. If a pupil goes toe-to-toe with you, you know that the most he'll get is expelled which he probably doesn't care about anyway. The teacher will lose his job, reputation, mortgage difficulties, prison etc etc.
Anthony, anyone ever call you a fat bastard in the CU?
What you can't say Credit Union now? Cu.
Anyway:
Sex Tape Teacher 'To Keep Her Job'
A primary school teacher who accidentally included an x-rated clip of herself in an end of term video for her pupils is likely to keep her job despite the blunder.
Crystal Defanti, from California, gave her class of 10 and 11 year olds the DVD of "classroom memories" featuring school trips and highlights from the school year.
But by selecting one of the menus, "you see kids in a classroom sharing stories. They then start clapping and the video suddenly cuts to sex", local news channel CBS 13 reported.
The clip appears to show 29-year-old Mrs Defanti alone in a highly compromising situation.
Apparently she did not spot the error until after she had distributed the footage to her class.
Parents have leapt to her defence, saying she is a good teacher who made an "honest but embarrassing mistake".
And the local school district has said Mrs Defanti, who is well-liked and respected, is unlikely to lose her job.
She is reported to have called one family's home the day after the DVD was sent and apologised profusely.
She also asked the parents "to call every parent they knew to stop their kids from seeing the DVD too".
"All she could say was that it was a horrible mix up," said one father.
I don't know the specifics of this case, althought it isn't a great leap to say that there is no circumstances in which attempting to kill a pupil is acceptable. Still, I'm amazed it has taken this long for something like this to happen. No amount of vetting teachers for their suitability to cope with the modern teaching environment would weed out those who can't cope with the animal-like behaviour teachers face in some (most?) schools
Quote from: T Fearon on July 10, 2009, 11:44:16 AM
I hope none of Shane O'Neill's pupils have urged him to "Fc.k off you b..d c..t!" even if I have done so for the last 7 or 8 years ;D
Tony, are you telling us you are still at school? ;D
If indeed you
have been Shane's pupil for the last 7 or eight years, when are you going to leave, graduate or get kicked out or whatever?
this makes a change from the pupils attacking teachers.
feel sorry for the guy as he has to get sacked I'd say.
these wee fcukers withno manners are allowed run riot , then at the first bit of discipline (ok in this case it was more than that) the parents whinge and moan at the dire treatment and trauma etc when its theywho should get a slap for not teaching the kids manners and respect.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 10, 2009, 03:05:28 PM
this makes a change from the pupils attacking teachers.
feel sorry for the guy as he has to get sacked I'd say.
these wee fcukers withno manners are allowed run riot , then at the first bit of discipline (ok in this case it was more than that) the parents whinge and moan at the dire treatment and trauma etc when its theywho should get a slap for not teaching the kids manners and respect.
He'll be lucky if he doesn;t spend a number of years behind bars.
He will lose his job ( probably picking up a compo package as the school put him in the situation ) but I dont think the guy will get jail. He had been off school stressed and was clearly provoked . I presume in the age of white boards the art of duster/ chalk throwing has died out ?
Of course this teachers actions were totally unacceptable, but it's obvious from reading the stories that he has had some stress related problems! I have to say i feel sorry for him because I'm sure his wife and daughters are heartbroken too. Many pupils have also come out according to the papers saying what a great man + teacher he was, the man was obviously under severe stress and under such provocation he snapped. At the end of the day he has a mental illness, too many people quick to judge and stick the boot in someone when they don't always know the whole story. If someone has a broken arm you can run to the hospital to get it fixed, not always as simple to fix depression and other mental illnesses.
Quote from: bcarrier on July 10, 2009, 03:31:23 PM
He will lose his job ( probably picking up a compo package as the school put him in the situation ) but I dont think the guy will get jail. He had been off school stressed and was clearly provoked . I presume in the age of white boards the art of duster/ chalk throwing has died out ?
He was arrested on attempted murder.
Fair enough we used to get theodd duster thrown, but slamming a child over the head with a weight, more than once I might add, brings it to a whole new playing field.
What is it with Science Teachers - we had a psychotic one in st. Pat's Armagh. He used to get seriously flustered if you misbehaved at all and through school bags against walls, kicked over chairs and screamed and ranted about everything.
I actually think he ended up in St Lukes or somewhere similar in the end.
Maybe sniffing the bunson burners???
Iceman, what years were you at St. Pat's? Think I know the one alright.
I feel sorry for him, clearly just snapped.
it's a pity what he'll go thorugh now over some little c***ts.
Quote from: MasterShake on July 10, 2009, 05:41:10 PM
Iceman, what years were you at St. Pat's? Think I know the one alright.
in the 90's Shake -same as a lot of heads on here too.....
Quote from: The Iceman on July 10, 2009, 07:42:51 PM
Quote from: MasterShake on July 10, 2009, 05:41:10 PM
Iceman, what years were you at St. Pat's? Think I know the one alright.
in the 90's Shake -same as a lot of heads on here too.....
Yes indeed Iceman...I left in '96. I'm just across the river from yerself now ;)
On the subject of the thread, I can understand
some of the sympathy for the teacher in that he obviously just cracked under the strain of whatever was goin on in his life. But he should be well trained to handle the type of incident that happened (assuming the reports are accurate), and does not appear to have feared for his own safety (he wasn't being physically attacked or anything). Depending on the extent of the wee bollix's (the student that is) injuries, I'd be surprised if the teacher avoids at least some jail time.
There was priest in dungannon used to put boys over what was called the'yellow bed' and bate them with a cane or slipper. A nasty f**er if ever there was one (God rest him ::))... they didn't put that in their history of the school came out a few years ago.
Quote from: ONeill on July 10, 2009, 01:00:27 PM
What you can't say Credit Union now? c*.
Anyway:
Sex Tape Teacher 'To Keep Her Job'
A primary school teacher who accidentally included an x-rated clip of herself in an end of term video for her pupils is likely to keep her job despite the blunder.
Crystal Defanti, from California, gave her class of 10 and 11 year olds the DVD of "classroom memories" featuring school trips and highlights from the school year.
But by selecting one of the menus, "you see kids in a classroom sharing stories. They then start clapping and the video suddenly cuts to sex", local news channel CBS 13 reported.
The clip appears to show 29-year-old Mrs Defanti alone in a highly compromising situation.
Apparently she did not spot the error until after she had distributed the footage to her class.
Parents have leapt to her defence, saying she is a good teacher who made an "honest but embarrassing mistake".
And the local school district has said Mrs Defanti, who is well-liked and respected, is unlikely to lose her job.
She is reported to have called one family's home the day after the DVD was sent and apologised profusely.
She also asked the parents "to call every parent they knew to stop their kids from seeing the DVD too".
"All she could say was that it was a horrible mix up," said one father.
Indeed, I imagine a few father will be at the head of the line on parents night!! Poor lonely woman!
Im 50, in my day we got attacked reg., saying that, not on this scale. Anyone think when they stopped canning in school kids have got worse?
Quote from: bcarrier on July 10, 2009, 03:31:23 PM
He will lose his job ( probably picking up a compo package as the school put him in the situation ) but I dont think the guy will get jail. He had been off school stressed and was clearly provoked . I presume in the age of white boards the art of duster/ chalk throwing has died out ?
Haven't used a duster/chalk in about 5 years. Tis all markers now. SS2 never used one. He just presses a button.
In England, we weren't allowed to call it a blackboard in mixed race schools.
So you don't tnhink he was coked off his tits like most teachers nowadays?
Can't understand why the police in high-profile cases like these always weigh in with the charge of murder or in this case attempted murder. Anyone can see theres no pre-meditation so it's almost guaranteed to be reduced to attempted manslaughter or less when the whole hullaballo dies down.
Quote from: Over the Bar on July 11, 2009, 08:58:52 PM
Can't understand why the police in high-profile cases like these always weigh in with the charge of murder or in this case attempted murder. Anyone can see theres no pre-meditation so it's almost guaranteed to be reduced to attempted manslaughter or less when the whole hullaballo dies down.
Well its the PPS (or CPS in England) who make the decision on what the charge should be. Would agree that they often tend to go too "high" though the defence has the ability to get a charge struck out before trial if there isn't sufficient evidence to substantiate it. You have to remember though that there can be outrage from the victim's family if they don't feel the proper charge has been put or indeed if the accused ends up pleading to a lesser charge - look at the Harry Holland case in Belfast a week or so again.
You don't actually need any "pre-meditation" for a murder charge, in that there doesn't have to have been any formal plan, a spur of the moment decision to hit somebody over the head with a sledgehammer would be murder if they died. Not sure there is a charge of attempted manslaughter. I'd say grevious bodily harm is what he's most likely to end up convicted of unless the prosecution can proove he intended to kill the child which is likely to be very difficult.
Seen today that they didn't apply for bail. Strange one that. May well be planning to plead guilty and just wants the jail time count to start as soon as possible.
The wee f**ker wasn't slapped for doing his homework....
Far too many kids get away with anything these days, and idiots for parents wheel in behind them and defend them....
If a teacher had got back to my lot about me misbehaving, I'd have got a slap when I got home just to make sure I got the message! Did me no harm at all.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 11, 2009, 09:40:31 PM
The wee f**ker wasn't slapped for doing his homework....
Far too many kids get away with anything these days, and idiots for parents wheel in behind them and defend them....
If a teacher had got back to my lot about me misbehaving, I'd have got a slap when I got home just to make sure I got the message! Did me no harm at all.
[/b] That is open to debate
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 11, 2009, 09:40:31 PM
The wee f**ker wasn't slapped for doing his homework....
Far too many kids get away with anything these days, and idiots for parents wheel in behind them and defend them....
If a teacher had got back to my lot about me misbehaving, I'd have got a slap when I got home just to make sure I got the message! Did me no harm at all.
Big difference betwen a slap and getting hit in the head with a metal weight.
Has there been an Exclusive with the pupils parents in the Sun yet?
Quote from: Minder on July 11, 2009, 10:27:11 PM
That is open to debate
Yes, cos you know me. ::)
Allegedly the kid told the teacher to "f**k off and have another stroke"....
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on July 11, 2009, 10:29:34 PM
Big difference betwen a slap and getting hit in the head with a metal weight.
True.
I reckon a bit of a slap now and then would nip half this shit in the bud, and over the top things like this would never happen as the kids could never build up the same friction.
Quote from: Take Your Points on July 11, 2009, 11:00:41 PM
Sympathy for both sides.
Schools must be places where children are safe and parents can expect that no intentional harm will come to them.
Teachers also need protection. Teaching is becoming one of the most stressful jobs and this poor man has obviously cracked under the pressure he felt. 40 years is a long time to work in the classroom and this poor man was suffering after around 25 years.
As a "sir" for so long you must have seen the balance of power shift, from that of the once respected teacher, to that of the rights of the child. In itself no bad thing, but I think the shift has gone too far in one direction. My wife is a teacher among her many complaints (she is a woman and a teacher after all ;)) is that schools are now almost powerless in rooting out bad eggs and excluding them, and also the fact that parents back up their children no matter what situation they have been involved in. Maybe children are more manipulative than they once were...
QuoteIn itself no bad thing, but I think the shift has gone too far in one direction.
Agree with that. Don't think a teacher should ever be allowed to touch a pupil though but if they're unmanageable they should be excluded, end of story. Problem is a lot of parents have no control over their children and arent interested in controling them, they think it should be up to someone else.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 11, 2009, 11:51:52 PM
and also the fact that parents back up their children no matter what situation they have been involved in.
Thats probably the biggest problem.
If I stepped out of line in school, chances are I'd get a slap when I got home just to make sure I learned my lesson.
Now its more likely the parents would be straight in to argue with the teacher.
I'm surprised that no one has yet been offended that it's called a Roman Catholic School. :P
But to the story itself - yes the teacher will have to go. You can't be in that job if you can't control yourself, even under provocation. It's not a job I could do myself.
Quote from: ONeill on July 10, 2009, 09:57:06 PM
Quote from: bcarrier on July 10, 2009, 03:31:23 PM
He will lose his job ( probably picking up a compo package as the school put him in the situation ) but I dont think the guy will get jail. He had been off school stressed and was clearly provoked . I presume in the age of white boards the art of duster/ chalk throwing has died out ?
Haven't used a duster/chalk in about 5 years. Tis all markers now. SS2 never used one. He just presses a button.
In England, we weren't allowed to call it a blackboard in mixed race schools.
Certainly not any more. The Fujitsu Lifebook and wireless data projector have rendered the humble white board marker redundant throughout most of our school.
With the exception of the Media Studies department it would appear.
As for the case in question, I fear the teacher may have over-reacted slightly.
Quote from: Take Your Points on July 12, 2009, 09:41:05 PM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on July 12, 2009, 08:23:31 PM
The Fujitsu Lifebook and wireless data projector have rendered the humble white board marker redundant throughout most of our school.
Ahh, the magic lantern, used to mesmerise, sedate and bore to tears.
And that's just my colleagues. Imagine what the young bucks think.
Good to have you back. Can I change my signature?