I hate to take a leaf out of the RTE panelists books but this years championship must be the worst by far in living memory.
one thing appears clear - the gap between the top teams and the middle ranking teams is getting ever-wider.
Few chances of shocks, never mind suprise results and many thrashings.
Kerry/Cork were good matches, Tyrone/Armagh was ok but being honest much of the rest has been mid-ranking muck.
There will of course be cries of the death of the provincial championships - and yes the do or die intesity does appear to be gone. Other sports have lost the prestiege attached to some of their major competitions - UEFA Cup, FA Cup in football, anything bar the majors in golf, even the Lions and this is for money reasons. In the GAA there is the bizarre situation where teams are not gunning for the silverware in their province, then suprised at being beaten find themselves in the qualifiers where the motivition is sometimes lacking or questionable. There are very few classics in the Qualifiers.
So what are we left with. The Connacht and Leinster Finals should produce close contests. Hopefully the football will be good.
Ulster and MUnster are possible turkey shoots.
Cork and Tyrone look like All Ireland semi-finalists.
Only Kerry realistically look like doing damage from the Qualifiers.
Intrigue looks like being lacking and the alarm bells should be ringing. Wait until there are poor crowds in the closing stages.
Quote from: Barney on June 28, 2009, 08:17:03 PM
I hate to take a leaf out of the RTE panelists books but this years championship must be the worst by far in living memory.
one thing appears clear - the gap between the top teams and the middle ranking teams is getting ever-wider.
Few chances of shocks, never mind suprise results and many thrashings.
Kerry/Cork were good matches, Tyrone/Armagh was ok but being honest much of the rest has been mid-ranking muck.
There will of course be cries of the death of the provincial championships - and yes the do or die intesity does appear to be gone. Other sports have lost the prestiege attached to some of their major competitions - UEFA Cup, FA Cup in football, anything bar the majors in golf, even the Lions and this is for money reasons. In the GAA there is the bizarre situation where teams are not gunning for the silverware in their province, then suprised at being beaten find themselves in the qualifiers where the motivition is sometimes lacking or questionable. There are very few classics in the Qualifiers.
So what are we left with. The Connacht and Leinster Finals should produce close contests. Hopefully the football will be good.
Ulster and MUnster are possible turkey shoots.
Cork and Tyrone look like All Ireland semi-finalists.
Only Kerry realistically look like doing damage from the Qualifiers.
Intrigue looks like being lacking and the alarm bells should be ringing. Wait until there are poor crowds in the closing stages.
Would hope that the gloom will have lited by the closing stages. In ways the "real" championship only starts when you get to the quarter finals. Not great fare so far fair enough but not one team is out of the championship yet and there's still a lot of potential for good games in the qualifiers.
Antrim V Donegal and Antrim V Cavan ring any bells?
Are you saying Monaghan and Armagh are wasting their time?
The championship really starts next weekend. Last chance saloon and all that. I think the Monaghan/Armagh game could be a clinker.
Load of nonsense Barney. Apart from Westmeath and Laois returning to their pre-2000 status of rubbish football counties, it has been a better than average Championship.
Cork beating Kerry was a shock.
Every result on Antrim's side of the draw in Ulster has been a shock.
The impressiveness of Kildare has been a shock.
Football didn't have a golden era where everone was competitve and committed. Just your memory playing tricks on you.
I'd disagree with a lot of that Barney, ok most of the games have been poor but we have 2 novel finals with 2 of the finalists rarely getting that far and the other 2 finals are very attractive pairings. The fact that we've had a few hammerings bodes well for the rest of the championship IMO because it seems a few counties may have stepped up a bit. For the first time in a few years it looks like we have one or two new AI contenders and teams like Kildare, Mayo, Dublin and a full Derry squad look like they could cause any team trouble later on. I'm really looking forward to the qualifiers and provincal finals and I think we will get some cracking games as the summer unfolds.
Quote from: Zulu on June 28, 2009, 08:40:49 PM
I'd disagree with a lot of that Barney, ok most of the games have been poor but we have 2 novel finals with 2 of the finalists rarely getting that far and the other 2 finals are very attractive pairings. The fact that we've had a few hammerings bodes well for the rest of the championship IMO because it seems a few counties may have stepped up a bit. For the first time in a few years it looks like we have one or two new AI contenders and teams like Kildare, Mayo, Dublin and a full Derry squad look like they could cause any team trouble later on. I'm really looking forward to the qualifiers and provincal finals and I think we will get some cracking games as the summer unfolds.
Fully agree, this negativity is infectous.
what amazes me is that the dubs could get such a crowd in to see a game against westmeath, i had no expectations of that game
Quote from: Barney on June 28, 2009, 08:17:03 PM
I hate to take a leaf out of the RTE panelists books but this years championship must be the worst by far in living memory.
one thing appears clear - the gap between the top teams and the middle ranking teams is getting ever-wider.
Few chances of shocks, never mind suprise results and many thrashings.
I think we sometimes have short memories. For practically the whole of the 70s and 80s, there was little or no hope of a Connact or Ulster champion beating a Leinster or Munster champion.
Its not even July and at the start of the championship most thought that nobody would get near Tyrone or Kerry. And maybe that's the way it'll finish, but Cork are definitely genuine contenders and Mayo, Galway, Kildare and Dublin have big games in them. And there's no doubt at least one of Armagh, Monaghan, Derry will get a new lease of life in the qualifiers.
I suppose its more to do with the fact the top counties are even further ahead now then a few years ago when the standards had definitely levelled off a bit.
Look the reality is that there are at most 10 good teams in the country at the moment. Cork, Kerry, Galway, Mayo, Dublin, Kildare, Tyrone, Armagh, Monaghan and Derry. No offence to other teams but thats it. So there are 22 teams that aren't up to standard. But 10 decent teams is more than there's been in a lot of years in the past. In the 80's you had Dublin and Meath, Cork and Kerry far ahead of everyone else for years, and the only hope the Ulster and Connacht teams had was once every 3 years they'd play each other in a semi, one would get to the final (Ros in 80, Galway 83, Tyrone 86 and Mayo 89) and they'd be beaten.
Yes there was a bit of a leveling out in the last few years with Laois Westmeath Wexford Limerick etc. improving, but it can't always be like that. But the other teams deserve a go and you won't get matches like Antrim beating Donegal or Sligo putting it up to Galway without having a few Westmeath/Roscommon style turkey shoots on the way.
Anyway, point is, you just can't judge a championship in June, it hasn't got going yet. I actually think this could be a cracking year and if we get a last 8 along the lines of Tyrone, Cork, Dublin, Galway, Mayo, Armagh, Kildare and Kerry, we'll be in for a hell of an All-Ireland Series.
Quote from: Cosmo Kramer on June 28, 2009, 10:13:27 PM
But 10 decent teams is more than there's been in a lot of years in the past. In the 80's you had Dublin and Meath, Cork and Kerry far ahead of everyone else for years, and the only hope the Ulster and Connacht teams had was once every 3 years they'd play each other in a semi, one would get to the final (Ros in 80, Galway 83, Tyrone 86 and Mayo 89) and they'd be beaten.
8 different winners in 10 years in the nineties would suggest that your statistical analysis is holier than
(http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/1237078/2/istockphoto_1237078_swiss_cheese.jpg)
or
(http://www.squareball.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/mrs-doyle.jpg)
Pre 1990-ish you had Kerry ahead of the rest (with a few others being there or thereabouts).
Since 1990 there has been a fine spread of wins amongst teams (with Kerry always there or there abouts).
Would Sligo / Antirm ( a division 4 team) lose to Westmeath (a division 1 team)? Would Sligo be hammered by Galway? Will Wicklow be hammered by Fermanagh?
Your argument is pitiful, the championship is more open than ever in terms of individual matches (although the bigger teams are more likely to be there in the end due to the back door). The closeness of the teams is not in question - it is the quality of the football that is the topic....
(http://images4.cafepress.com/product/61030864v9_350x350_Front.jpg)
We're doomed.
DOOMED!
also the blanket coverage doesn't help. The bad games are all televised now- they never used to be. So no neutrals saw how bad thye really were.
Quote from: Caid on June 29, 2009, 12:20:44 AM
Quote from: Cosmo Kramer on June 28, 2009, 10:13:27 PM
But 10 decent teams is more than there's been in a lot of years in the past. In the 80's you had Dublin and Meath, Cork and Kerry far ahead of everyone else for years, and the only hope the Ulster and Connacht teams had was once every 3 years they'd play each other in a semi, one would get to the final (Ros in 80, Galway 83, Tyrone 86 and Mayo 89) and they'd be beaten.
8 different winners in 10 years in the nineties would suggest that your statistical analysis is holier than (some cheese apparently)
Sorry, but where once did I mention the 90s - my stats were all about the 80s. We all know there was a big spread of winners in the 90s because of the improvement of the Ulster teams and in the later 90s the Connacht teams. I said 10 decent teams is more than there has been at times in the past and I backed it up with statistics. I didn't say 'theres never been 10 good teams before'.
Quote from: Caid on June 29, 2009, 12:20:44 AM
Would Sligo / Antirm ( a division 4 team) lose to Westmeath (a division 1 team)? Would Sligo be hammered by Galway? Will Wicklow be hammered by Fermanagh?
Sligo/Antrim v Westmeath - dunno, would probably be close. Doesn't mean any of them will be challenging for Sam or are of the same standard at the moment as the teams I listed. Westmeath being in division one means little as they lost every game they played.
Sligo gave Galway a good game - I pointed that out. Doesn't mean Sligo can challenge for the AI - they can't because they're not good enough. Galway might though. In the greater scheme of things it matters little who wins between Wicklow or Fermanagh, because neither of them are up to much this year anyway.
Quote from: Caid on June 29, 2009, 12:20:44 AM
Your argument is pitiful, the championship is more open than ever in terms of individual matches. The closeness of the teams is not in question - it is the quality of the football that is the topic....
No it isn't pitiful, it's the reality. All I said is that for every Sligo v Galway you'll have a Dublin v Westmeath. That's true. Some days the weaker teams will give a good account of themselves against the stronger teams, some days they'll look like they've never seen a football before. When two crap teams play each other it'll probably be crap and close. Doesn't mean either of them can challenge Tyrone, Kerry Cork etc for Sam.
Quote from: Caid on June 29, 2009, 12:20:44 AM
although the bigger teams are more likely to be there in the end due to the back door.
Exactly my point. As you said, in the longer term, the best teams will be there at the end because they're the best teams. Of course in a one off game you can have a surprise result, but the top teams will end up at the top of the pile.
I'm not sure what your point is to be honest, it seems to be that lots of the poorer standard teams can have close matches against each other, and sometimes some of them will give the top teams a game. How exactly that makes my point that there are 10 teams with any hope at all of winning the All-Ireland 'pitiful' is beyond me.
Here, you can have your cheese back.
(http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/1237078/2/istockphoto_1237078_swiss_cheese.jpg)
The championship in many ways is only starting properly now. Teams have one or 2 games behind them and most will only be aiming too peak from now on. Knockout football is starting and trophies will be handed out. Looking forward to Dublin V Kildare and Mayo v Galway. Armagh v Monaghan should be good this weekend and there should be a few good qualifier games involving Kerry. There's also the novelty of a Tyrone Antrim final. As said elsewhere if the last 8 is made up something like this - Tyrone,Armagh,Kerry,Cork,Dublin,Kildare,Galway,Mayo we could have some great games to look forward to later on.
Would be great if Kildare beat the Dubs and the Dubs had to head to Cork for the quarter final.
People are also very quick to ignore the positves. Some of Dublins scoretaking early on yesterday including Brogans goal haven't been given the credit they deserve.
Quote from: Tyrone Dreamer on June 29, 2009, 09:26:13 PM
People are also very quick to ignore the positves. Some of Dublins scoretaking early on yesterday including Brogans goal haven't been given the credit they deserve.
Exactly. The Dubs' scores in the first 10 mins were top drawer.
Tyrone lads praising Dublin. f*** I'm worried now. ;D
I don't see how its been any worse this year than other years.
There have been exciting games, albeit not all of them live on tv. Bad choices of matches like showing Westmeath/Wicklow & Mayo/Roscommon have coloured peoples view of things.
Cork, Kildare, Dublin yesterday, Mayo, Tyrone have all looked impressive so far. And i'm sure we will see better from Kerry, Armagh and Galway before the summer is out.
Even teams like Derry & Donegal could easily get through qualifiers and be a threat again.
Its great to see Antrim & Limerick in the provincial finals, especially Antrim...who won well in an open entertaining game on Saturday night. Saw them in the league and i was very impressed with them. Ok it was against Carlow, but they seemed a level above what they usually are even back then.
Its a very open championship this year with no team you would say for sure will win it. To me Cork would be my bet right now, but i wouldn't put much on them.
This weekend with the 1st 8 qualifiers the real championship starts. Should be some good games in it, but of course there will be 2 or 3 very one sided affairs including i fear my own Carlow going to Ballybofey to face a wounded Donegal side. I fear the backlash big time :-[
Hopefully we'll get less whinging for the rest of the championship, although I see Spillane still at it today. Since Barney started this we have had a good Munster Final between Cork and Limerick, a really good first half and good overall game between Derry and Monaghan, and a great Leinster Final between Dublin and Kildare. I'm sure there were some other decent qualifier games.
I think we all need to give Barney a big group hug.
Who's first?
In fairness things have picked up considerably.
Sadly no great hurling this year.
Its a pity it takes so long for the championship to swing into serious action.
Would not agree that the Championship is less competitive, but overall there has a been a serious decline in the quality of football being played, which is effecting all counties. However there are hopeful signs from Cork, Dublin and Tyrone that this will be remedied before the year is out, and attacking football will return
Another good day for the championship. Quality not the best but 2 very entertaining games.
Quote from: Pangurban on July 12, 2009, 07:33:07 PM
Would not agree that the Championship is less competitive, but overall there has a been a serious decline in the quality of football being played, which is effecting all counties. However there are hopeful signs from Cork, Dublin and Tyrone that this will be remedied before the year is out, and attacking football will return
There hasn't really.
A couple of very entertaining games today.
They're saying on the radio that the Derry Donegal game is a great match.
No need to panic, tomorrow's Ulster Final will throw up an edge of the seat classic :-\
Despite a slow start its turning into a great championship. Backdoor has been brilliant this year. In previous years some teams struggled to recover from defeats and take it seriously. Thats not the case any more with loads of competitive games. Think its improved because its been pushed back to July giving teams more time to prepare after a defeat. Has also been helped by home and away format up to round 3.
Quote from: ONeill on June 28, 2009, 08:37:07 PM
The championship really starts next weekend. Last chance saloon and all that. I think the Monaghan/Armagh game could be a clinker.
Did you mean stinker?
Possibly in dire straits because of swine flu.