Gaelic footballers and hurlers have announced they will not do media interviews or promotional work ahead of two provincial finals.
The move is part of the Gaelic Players' Association's long-running dispute with the GAA over getting assistance in employment and health issues.
The union says its attempts to get a formal agreement have been ignored.
They said players would not do media interviews for the Leinster football final and the Munster hurling decider.
However, the GPA said they would not interfere with the actual staging of the two matches.
Gaelic football and hurling are amateur sports and a new grants scheme for provincial players could be scrapped because of government spending cuts.
A GPA is angry that many of its members are struggling to get or keep jobs, while helping make huge profits for the GAA by playing in high-profile Championship fixtures.
A statement from the union said: "We have asked the GAA to fund a series of enhanced player welfare programmes in the critical areas of employment, career development and health and well-being services.
"As players have chosen the GPA to represent their interests, it is only through a meaningful official relationship, with the attendant financial commitment, that the GAA can meet its obligations to the inter-county players who do more than anybody to fuel its financial engine.
"The players' association is 10 years in existence and has attempted to negotiate a formal agreement with Croke Park under five different presidents."
Sourced BBCi: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/8121926.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/8121926.stm)
and so it begins...
I am getting really tired of the GPA. Egos are getting way too big when it comes to stunts like this.
It's pathetic and the GPA are pathetic by their actions
Farrell etc really ought to take a good hard look at themselves and their motivation and be honest with both the Association and ordinary punters - they want a share of the takings, that has been their aim all along and I think they should all go fcuk themselves.
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on June 26, 2009, 09:25:41 PM
I am getting really tired of the GPA. Egos are getting way too big when it comes to stunts like this.
It's pathetic and the GPA are pathetic by their actions
Farrell etc really ought to take a good hard look at themselves and their motivation and be honest with both the Association and ordinary punters - they want a share of the takings, that has been their aim all along and I think they should all go fcuk themselves.
Your 100 per cent correct. Especially with the country suffering in recession. No need for this crap.
f**k I'm sick of this bullshit, if they don't want to play would they ever F*CK OFF!!
Pack of stupid c***ts, what exactly is this action in aid of? What do they want? Have they even said?
Dessie Farrell at his usual sabre rattling so he can justify another years wages
I was just chatting to someone today about the GPA and how fed up we both are of them. Saying it was a good idea when it was set up, but greedy fcukers like Farrell are ruining the initial idea of it.
Players are well looked out for by their County Boards (Tyrone anyway) and none of them are exactly on the breadline. Certainly no worst than the rest of us anyway.
This is just the last straw and I'm sick of it. What about us? Following inter-county games isn't exactly cheap, but we do for the love of the game.
This is the final straw and I hope Cooney will stand up to them... doubt it though.
Dessie farrell and Donal og Cusack sicken me. I can see Sean Cavanagh following in their footsteps to.
Does anyone really care if the players don't give interviews? Personally I couldn't give a monkeys.
It is completely sickening when you hear and see people voluntarily giving time, money and expertise in order to leave a strong GAA legacy, and the players, as important as they are, demanding a bit of what could be left for future generations of Gaels.
Quote from: Mid Down Gael on June 26, 2009, 09:41:34 PM
Dessie farrell and Donal og Cusack sicken me. I can see Sean Cavanagh following in their footsteps to.
Until Geezer got involved with Kildare he was in with them, didn't agree with him either
Quote from: Rois on June 26, 2009, 09:46:04 PM
Does anyone really care if the players don't give interviews? Personally I couldn't give a monkeys.
It is completely sickening when you hear and see people voluntarily giving time, money and expertise in order to leave a strong GAA legacy, and the players, as important as they are, demanding a bit of what could be left for future generations of Gaels.
Same here, couldnt care less if I never heard a players interview but that's really not the point.
aye, but some journo will head out to a player, offer him 200 notes and we'll see how long the embargo lasts and just how strong the union is. It's all a pile of shite, in saying that I've said it many times before, I'd be as happy to see players get a few quid rather than more big stadiums that'll never be filled being built.
Quote from: ziggysego on June 26, 2009, 09:20:11 PM
Gaelic footballers and hurlers have announced they will not do media interviews or promotional work ahead of two provincial finals.
The move is part of the Gaelic Players' Association's long-running dispute with the GAA over getting assistance in employment and health issues.
The union says its attempts to get a formal agreement have been ignored.
They said players would not do media interviews for the Leinster football final and the Munster hurling decider.
However, the GPA said they would not interfere with the actual staging of the two matches.
Gaelic football and hurling are amateur sports and a new grants scheme for provincial players could be scrapped because of government spending cuts.
A GPA is angry that many of its members are struggling to get or keep jobs, while helping make huge profits for the GAA by playing in high-profile Championship fixtures.
A statement from the union said: "We have asked the GAA to fund a series of enhanced player welfare programmes in the critical areas of employment, career development and health and well-being services.
"As players have chosen the GPA to represent their interests, it is only through a meaningful official relationship, with the attendant financial commitment, that the GAA can meet its obligations to the inter-county players who do more than anybody to fuel its financial engine.
"The players' association is 10 years in existence and has attempted to negotiate a formal agreement with Croke Park under five different presidents."
Sourced BBCi: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/8121926.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/8121926.stm)
What exactly is wrong with the highlighted parts???????????
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on June 26, 2009, 10:23:37 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on June 26, 2009, 09:20:11 PM
Gaelic footballers and hurlers have announced they will not do media interviews or promotional work ahead of two provincial finals.
The move is part of the Gaelic Players' Association's long-running dispute with the GAA over getting assistance in employment and health issues.
The union says its attempts to get a formal agreement have been ignored.
They said players would not do media interviews for the Leinster football final and the Munster hurling decider.
However, the GPA said they would not interfere with the actual staging of the two matches.
Gaelic football and hurling are amateur sports and a new grants scheme for provincial players could be scrapped because of government spending cuts.
A GPA is angry that many of its members are struggling to get or keep jobs, while helping make huge profits for the GAA by playing in high-profile Championship fixtures.
A statement from the union said: "We have asked the GAA to fund a series of enhanced player welfare programmes in the critical areas of employment, career development and health and well-being services.
"As players have chosen the GPA to represent their interests, it is only through a meaningful official relationship, with the attendant financial commitment, that the GAA can meet its obligations to the inter-county players who do more than anybody to fuel its financial engine.
"The players' association is 10 years in existence and has attempted to negotiate a formal agreement with Croke Park under five different presidents."
Sourced BBCi: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/8121926.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/8121926.stm)
What exactly is wrong with the highlighted parts???????????
Because it's bullshit and since when was the gaa a recruitment agency anyway?
My days just won't be the same, so empty and void.
aye... bag a' shite... f** 'em
thank fcuk, wont need to look at boys (usually an armagh player) shoving a bottle of lucozade sport or powerade or whatever down their throat every 2 seconds....
hungy hoors
Quote from: pintsofguinness on June 26, 2009, 09:31:45 PM
f**k I'm sick of this bullshit, if they don't want to play would they ever F*CK OFF!!
Pack of stupid c***ts, what exactly is this action in aid of? What do they want? Have they even said?
would certainly agree with that.
A hateful bunch of cnuts. Jesus I hate greedy militant intercounty players. Cooney needs to put this to bed. I as a member will dig deep into my pocket to help make up any shortfall which would come about from reduced gate receipts when the striking starts rather than the whole association give into these scumbags trying to hold us to ransom. Cnuts
Lads for gods sake if you don't like it, you know what to do. >:(
If they don't like what?
Have they an issue with playing?
I'm against the GPA entirely, but I can understand why it needs to exist.
Yet I can't understand the logic behind this move.
The only way a GAA player will ever be able to demand fees for his prowess at an amateur sport - no matter how small the fee - is if his profile can sustain it. Creating and maintaining that profile involves getting in bed with the media. Exploiting that profile involves - for want of a better phrase - taking it up the ass from the media.
Beyond this, every deal the GPA ever hopes to make "for the betterment of conditions for GAA players" hinges on the sponsoring companies getting appropriate coverage from the media.
Talk about cutting of your nose to spite your face. Irish media companies should very simply get together an refuse to cover the strike. That would be the best way to resolve this nonsense.
theGAA posting questions. Theres a first ::)
simple enough questions i would have thought.
as usual, the simple facts get lost in the bluster around these parts. ffs some idiot even posted that he couldn't even say what they wanted - directly under an article outling exactly that!
They don't have a problem maintaining their profile in the hope they'll get something from it by carrying out actions like this. That means they don't have a problem playing. You're right enough!
Quote from: The GAA on June 26, 2009, 11:56:31 PM
simple enough questions i would have thought.
as usual, the simple facts get lost in the bluster around these parts. ffs some idiot even posted that he couldn't even say what they wanted - directly under an article outling exactly that!
We all know what the GPA want!
But maybe you could give us a point to point outline of what they're dressing it up as this time though because I'm a bit confused about when the GAA became FAS.
I'm not bothered either way, I think we all know at this stage what the gpa are about and if they're not getting their way out the toys go out of the pram. I am sick to the teeth of their moaning and bitching about playing the sport they're suppose to love. If they dont want to play would they ever f**k off and the jersies will be filled by boys who do want to play.
Quote from: The GAA on June 26, 2009, 11:51:18 PM
Have they an issue with playing?
Can't be bothered with this.
"theGAA" doesn't read between lines lads so unless you have the GPA stating in writing that the won't play if they don't get some movement from the GAA on getting what they want then don't expect him to take on board what we are all saying
Someone looking for a point by point outline from the same man ...expect more questions than answers.
It is time for the GAA to wake up and treat this group of malcontents as the pariahs they are. There should be no recognition given to them or any contact entered into. Any Co.Players who find difficulty accepting this should be told to find somewhere else to play. The GAA will continue to exist without them and be here long after they are gone
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on June 26, 2009, 09:49:45 PM
Quote from: Mid Down Gael on June 26, 2009, 09:41:34 PM
Dessie farrell and Donal og Cusack sicken me. I can see Sean Cavanagh following in their footsteps to.
Until Geezer got involved with Kildare he was in with them, didn't agree with him either
From what I know both those guys were getting 'taken care of' well enough anyway to nearly be classed as professionals.
Sure if the media want the real good stuff they can just take it from here.
YE lads have a better insight than any player ;)
QuoteHowever, the GPA said they would not interfere with the actual staging of the two matches.
The day they do decide to interfere with the staging of matches will be the best thing that ever happens because on that day they will get their come-uppance. The level of intelligence shared among the boys in the suits in this organizeation can be determined by their timing in announcing the reasons for this most recent ban they are talking about imposing.
1. This country, like others is in recession, ie, there is no money to fund exclusive programs at a time when even children are being left to die in hospitals while throughout the country other parents are scrimping and scraping and begging for funding for required operations to save their childrens lives. Everyone is taking pay cuts and despite the various political views the people in general are pulling together to work our way out of where we find ourselves. An announcement in the media at this time that the GAA were going to fund an elite section of the GAA would not be received very well lets say by those who have been thrown out of work in Jacobs Biscuit Factory in Tallaght or Tom Hogans in Galway or do anything to promote the GAA in local clubs when 200,000 others are also unemployed.
2. As a result of the recession, gyms, swimming pools and other facilities that the public have to pay for are closing down because people can no longer afford them. While I appreciate the effort put in by all who contribute to the games I enjoy, I would also take a guess that there are many who are thankfull for and enjoy the training facilities that the GAA provide free of charge and with expenses covered. As has been tradition since the foundation of the GAA, members have always been looked after and nowhere more so than in state jobs in this country, some player been elected as TD's and selected to run as political candidates for no other reason than they were GAA personalities. I remember doing an interview for a job in 1969 and being asked "what paper did I read" (Irish Press = correct) and then "What Sports Pages did I read first" (GAA=Correct) and I passed in flying colours even though the job was in tellecommunications !
3. Money raised by the GAA is put to good use, back into the communities under national structural programmes. What have the GPA done with all the money and sponsorship they have received, did the invest it in Anglo shares? If not and they still have some funds there are plenty of institutes that provide training seminars at different levels for various types of careers. Group bookings are available, go and look them up like everyone else has to do.
The impression I am given by this latest bleating from the GPA is that when they are finished their training they have to sit at home with no work sucking their thumbs! This week I attended a very large funeral in Galway and Kerry and there were literrally thousands of people in attendance. On both occasions the GAA took control of the situation placing up to 1000 seats outside churches, making sure the elderly got priority, directing traffic, controlling parking, ensuring family seats were available and even down to the fact that it was a warm day, they had young lads distribute bottled (unsponsored) water to each person who sat in the heat outside because the churches were full. They formed Guards Of Honour and were and absolute credit to the GAA, there was nothing that they left out, including food afterwards and I can tell you this, I and thousands like me were very proud to be GAA men and women on those two sad days. The elitest should re-integrate themselves back into this type of community spirit and remember where we all came from. Jobs will follow and the appreciation of the effort players make, whether it be walking around a field down the country with a bottle of spring water or walking around Croke park with a bottle of sponsored drink will be maintained. I would say to the GPA, if you push your boat out now we will sink it for you.
Good post.
I truly do believe the GPA is now only a position for Dessie Farrell to make a few bob.
I would argue that 95% of the actual inter county players in the country don't give a damn about the GPA
Quote from: Pangurban on June 27, 2009, 02:00:33 AM
It is time for the GAA to wake up and treat this group of malcontents as the pariahs they are. There should be no recognition given to them or any contact entered into. Any Co.Players who find difficulty accepting this should be told to find somewhere else to play. The GAA will continue to exist without them and be here long after they are gone
Surely this is a case of keep your enemy's closer. Bring them on board officially or offer a direct competitor and reduce their influence that way
Quote from: JMohan on June 27, 2009, 09:18:46 AM
Good post.
I truly do believe the GPA is now only a position for Dessie Farrell to make a few bob.
I would argue that 95% of the actual inter county players in the country don't give a damn about the GPA
Exactly my thoughts. The GAA intercounty players are well looked after. Farrel whats he at when there not making announcements, feck all id say.
Quote from: JMohan on June 27, 2009, 09:18:46 AM
Good post.
I truly do believe the GPA is now only a position for Dessie Farrell to make a few bob.
I would argue that 95% of the actual inter county players in the country don't give a damn about the GPA
[/b]
you are probably right!
Quote from: The GAA on June 26, 2009, 11:56:31 PM
simple enough questions i would have thought.
as usual, the simple facts get lost in the bluster around these parts. ffs some idiot even posted that he couldn't even say what they wanted - directly under an article outling exactly that!
No-one forced their hand to play inter county football. They knew what was involved before they signed up to it. No point in whingeing after the event. If they don't like it they don't have to play it. End of.
Players come and go . They'd want to realise that. Some of these GPA heads think they are immortal or that the future of the Association depends on them.
If they aren't happy with the terms and conditions of playing an amateur sport then they can take their leave at any time they wish.
(Good luck to them too I say - but don't cry about it)
I love the way Farrell says that The GAA need to help players get jobs ... many players have jobs they never should have but for that they ARE county footballers in the first place!!!!
There's a f*cking recession on Farrell - it's worldwide - not just for intercounty footballers
Quote from: Bud Wiser on June 27, 2009, 09:13:16 AM
QuoteHowever, the GPA said they would not interfere with the actual staging of the two matches.
The day they do decide to interfere with the staging of matches will be the best thing that ever happens because on that day they will get their come-uppance. The level of intelligence shared among the boys in the suits in this organizeation can be determined by their timing in announcing the reasons for this most recent ban they are talking about imposing.
1. This country, like others is in recession, ie, there is no money to fund exclusive programs at a time when even children are being left to die in hospitals while throughout the country other parents are scrimping and scraping and begging for funding for required operations to save their childrens lives. Everyone is taking pay cuts and despite the various political views the people in general are pulling together to work our way out of where we find ourselves. An announcement in the media at this time that the GAA were going to fund an elite section of the GAA would not be received very well lets say by those who have been thrown out of work in Jacobs Biscuit Factory in Tallaght or Tom Hogans in Galway or do anything to promote the GAA in local clubs when 200,000 others are also unemployed.
2. As a result of the recession, gyms, swimming pools and other facilities that the public have to pay for are closing down because people can no longer afford them. While I appreciate the effort put in by all who contribute to the games I enjoy, I would also take a guess that there are many who are thankfull for and enjoy the training facilities that the GAA provide free of charge and with expenses covered. As has been tradition since the foundation of the GAA, members have always been looked after and nowhere more so than in state jobs in this country, some player been elected as TD's and selected to run as political candidates for no other reason than they were GAA personalities. I remember doing an interview for a job in 1969 and being asked "what paper did I read" (Irish Press = correct) and then "What Sports Pages did I read first" (GAA=Correct) and I passed in flying colours even though the job was in tellecommunications !
3. Money raised by the GAA is put to good use, back into the communities under national structural programmes. What have the GPA done with all the money and sponsorship they have received, did the invest it in Anglo shares? If not and they still have some funds there are plenty of institutes that provide training seminars at different levels for various types of careers. Group bookings are available, go and look them up like everyone else has to do.
The impression I am given by this latest bleating from the GPA is that when they are finished their training they have to sit at home with no work sucking their thumbs! This week I attended a very large funeral in Galway and Kerry and there were literrally thousands of people in attendance. On both occasions the GAA took control of the situation placing up to 1000 seats outside churches, making sure the elderly got priority, directing traffic, controlling parking, ensuring family seats were available and even down to the fact that it was a warm day, they had young lads distribute bottled (unsponsored) water to each person who sat in the heat outside because the churches were full. They formed Guards Of Honour and were and absolute credit to the GAA, there was nothing that they left out, including food afterwards and I can tell you this, I and thousands like me were very proud to be GAA men and women on those two sad days. The elitest should re-integrate themselves back into this type of community spirit and remember where we all came from. Jobs will follow and the appreciation of the effort players make, whether it be walking around a field down the country with a bottle of spring water or walking around Croke park with a bottle of sponsored drink will be maintained. I would say to the GPA, if you push your boat out now we will sink it for you.
good post bud wiser, your name does exactly what it says on the tin....
As far as I can gather from the statement - this is only going to affect RTE and TV3 television stations, and perhaps radio also. For instance within two hours of the GPA statement being released the Tipperary PRO released an email that the Tipperary hurlers would have a press night this coming week with management and players in attendance - it's due to go on for about two hours as would be the norm with these gigs.
There'll be no keeping davy Fitz away from being interviewed ::)
This should come as no surprise - but let's not make a big deal out of it and don't over dramatise it. It's hardly a big story - the less coverage this gets the better.
Quote from: JMohan on June 27, 2009, 09:18:46 AM
I would argue that 95% of the actual inter county players in the country don't give a damn about the GPA
Sorry? Please argue away to explain how you came up with this one.
I would be a GPA sympathiser and I would try to stay away from the hyperbole that the common GAA fan has fallen into - eg. GAA - good, GPA - bad, but I really don't see what they are trying to achieve here.
Quote from: corn02 on June 27, 2009, 12:19:58 PM
Quote from: JMohan on June 27, 2009, 09:18:46 AM
I would argue that 95% of the actual inter county players in the country don't give a damn about the GPA
Sorry? Please argue away to explain how you came up with this one.
I would be a GPA sympathiser and I would try to stay away from the hyperbole that the common GAA fan has fallen into - eg. GAA - good, GPA - bad, but I really don't see what they are trying to achieve here.
First of all - how many players are actually members?
Remember there are about 34 intercounty teams x 30= players in football and what 20+ teams in Hurling with 30+ players? ... on average. That equals 1600 players approx playing the games ...
if 100 players across the country are actually involved actively or affected by the GPA on a daily basis I'd be amazed.
And if even near half of that are relying on the GPA for any kind of employment I'd call BS.
If the GPA was serious it would be helping defend the likes of Keilt or helping represent Tommy Freeman or something like that.
So in my opinion most players aren't really affected by the GPA nor do they really care much about them.
Don't get me wrong - I'm not "anti GPA".
I am
1. Anti-pay for play
2. Anti-Whinging
3. Anti-paying Dessie Farrell a wage just to be a rabble rouser
4. Pro-Player Welfare
The players seem to be very well looked after now... this is total self interest to wring more and more out of GAA in their bid for eventual pay for play. The boycott of interviews is a load of nonsense. If there was no TV or newspapers they would not have any profile. Sean Cavanagh walked away with two top range cars last year... why not put the cost of them into the players fund for the Tyrone players he claims are on the 'breadline?' Is a load of hyperbole..
The players are generally better looked after now because the GPA came into existence. the majority of county boards still don't meet their agreed welfare charter though.
Jmohan - how would you feel the GPA should "better defend KIelt"? should farrel have been on the pitch? or do you know of some further assault that kielt has been subjected to since the incident?
Quote from: The GAA on June 27, 2009, 04:36:58 PM
The players are generally better looked after now because the GPA came into existence. the majority of county boards still don't meet their agreed welfare charter though.
Jmohan - how would you feel the GPA should "better defend KIelt"? should farrel have been on the pitch? or do you know of some further assault that kielt has been subjected to since the incident?
Perhaps bad choice of exmaple considering the feeling around it.
No I just mean that the GPA should be more concerned with player protection and defending & supporting them rather than looking directly for money.
So for example - do the GPA try and help make sure he sees the best surgeons? Do they ring him to see if he's ok, has had proper insurance, do they help young players get media training or organise sponsors or organise private medical insurance discounts etc. ... I don't know - but I think you know what I mean - player welfare issues - not just chasing the coin.
I'd be fairly certain that they do.
Well then if they are doing that for all 1600 or so members then I'm sure they have enough to do without trying to hassle the GAA into getting them jobs and paying them
What player was it talked about here not so long ago who'd been injured and he said the gpa didnt contact him once?
Quote from: pintsofguinness on June 27, 2009, 05:29:12 PM
What player was it talked about here not so long ago who'd been injured and he said the gpa didnt contact him once?
Brian McGuigan..... I think, but I'm happy enough to be proved wrong on that account, as I'm not 100% sure.
Well it's just an elite organisation for IC players ... including ex Na Fianna members
Quote from: JMohan on June 27, 2009, 05:39:58 PM
Well it's just an elite organisation for IC players ... including ex Na Fianna members
I agree 100%.
I've no time for the GPA....and I dont agree with the grants. I think Dessie & Cavanagh and Co are out for themselves more than anything else, trying to get themselves more recognition and more cash.
Mark Conway from Tyrone (One True Voice I think...) can put it better than me, but IMHO I think the GPA are the single biggest threat to the GAA.....more so than Soccer or Rugby.
Quote from: JMohan on June 27, 2009, 09:18:46 AM
I would argue that 95% of the actual inter county players in the country don't give a damn about the GPA
I'm not a fan of Farrell, or any of this crap, but are the vast majority of intercounty players not members of the GPA? Their website says they have
"inter-county membership of nearly 1900 players" - that's close to 100%.
Anyway, if the GAA players disagree with the actions of the GPA, they should maybe be a bit more vocal about it - vote with their feet, or at least oust Farrell, who appears to be making noise just to try and justify his job.
QuoteThe players are generally better looked after now because the GPA came into existence. the majority of county boards still don't meet their agreed welfare charter though.
The players are generally better looked after now because the GPA came into existance? Correct. But when the different issues were addressed ye should have left it at that and gone away again.
The majority of county boards still don't meet their agreed welfare charter though? Incorrect, unless you can name the majority of county boards and their failures. The majority of County Boards are made up of members from remote clubs who haven't got a pot to piss in. The majority of clubs have got less than 50% paid up membership because the majority of their members are players and the persuance of membership is not always an option. They make revenue from bar income and fundraising through the Lotto draws. If, as you say players welfare is not looked after for GPA members that you represent then how do you think the GPA players welfare compares with that of the back of the woods Sligo or Roscommon Club hurling player who is giving it his all in the tradition of the GAA.
If the GPA were an association that were wanted in the GAA they would have a large number of Associate membership and not just selected players.
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 28, 2009, 02:24:13 AM
Quote from: JMohan on June 27, 2009, 09:18:46 AM
I would argue that 95% of the actual inter county players in the country don't give a damn about the GPA
I'm not a fan of Farrell, or any of this crap, but are the vast majority of intercounty players not members of the GPA? Their website says they have "inter-county membership of nearly 1900 players" - that's close to 100%.
Anyway, if the GAA players disagree with the actions of the GPA, they should maybe be a bit more vocal about it - vote with their feet, or at least oust Farrell, who appears to be making noise just to try and justify his job.
I agree with that, I donn't buy "they're not interested" crap. If they're not interested then come out and say it.
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 28, 2009, 02:24:13 AM
Quote from: JMohan on June 27, 2009, 09:18:46 AM
I would argue that 95% of the actual inter county players in the country don't give a damn about the GPA
I'm not a fan of Farrell, or any of this crap, but are the vast majority of intercounty players not members of the GPA? Their website says they have "inter-county membership of nearly 1900 players" - that's close to 100%.
Anyway, if the GAA players disagree with the actions of the GPA, they should maybe be a bit more vocal about it - vote with their feet, or at least oust Farrell, who appears to be making noise just to try and justify his job.
As far as I know it's an automatic membership thing...
What happened at the start was that they asked for members to sign up - a load did, some didn't etc...
Then they asked for a small fee - the numbers fell like a stone
The next thing was that a few years ago they realised they had very few actual real signed up members
I know this as when one organisation went to help them and to get phone numbers for their members they couldn't give them any!
So then they scrapped the joining fee and just said once you are on a panel you're automatcially a member
Hence 1900 so called 'members' ...
But I'm open to correction
Not sure if that's 100% correct JMohan. I know the Cork 2009 hurlers were not 'invited' to join the GPA. I know there were a few quid (literally) subs a couple of years ago.
Ok .. well the Cork thing was a once off ... but I don't think there is a joining up process is what I mean ...
Anyway the GPA was just trying to flex it's muscle there
I hope they end the ban soon ... having to listen to this whinging weasel is too much .... http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/the_championship/8123062.stm
QuoteHence 1900 so called 'members' ...
Well d'ya see this is where I am coming from by asking how many associate members there are. For example if they have 1900 PLAYING members then they have an income of almost one hundred thousand euro per annum on players membership alone. Since they claim to have the support they keep talking about then - apart from merchandising, car sponsorship, endorsements, and other major sponsorships it would follow that along with associate membership their ATO is somewhere around half a million to three quarters of a million a year.
There is a company, The Gaelic Players Management Company, see information available to public here http://www.cro.ie/search/companyresultse.asp (http://www.cro.ie/search/companyresultse.asp) that was set up in October 2007 and whose last annual returns were filed in 2007. Again this is public information. I know that if I apply for a grant for my company or submit a tender the first thing I am asked is for a tax clearance certificate and confirmation that my accounts are up to date.
I am not saying that the GPA are not up to date in their filing of accounts, nor am I saying or alleging they are making half a million a year but what I am asking is can the likes of Eamonn Sweeney (today's Indpependent) tell me what name the company he is promoting for Grant Approval is registered under and where can I see their annual returns before I decide to give the support that Sweeney is crying for. He ends his article by stating
" And if the GAA try to brazen this one out? Then in the words of a certain man who played a blinder in Pairc Ui Chaoimh 21 years ago, things will start getting "bad, Bad,, really, really bad" which in any mans language is a reasonable threat to our association.
** (from the link you must click on search and insert "gaelic players" )
Good post and was following you perfectly up to here ....
Quote from: Bud Wiser on June 28, 2009, 01:50:11 PM
I am not saying that the GPA are not up to date in their filing of accounts, nor am I saying or alleging they are making half a million a year but what I am asking is can the likes of Eamonn Sweeney (today's Indpependent) tell me what name the company he is promoting for Grant Approval is registered under and where can I see their annual returns before I decide to give the support that Sweeney is crying for. He ends his article by stating " And if the GAA try to brazen this one out? Then in the words of a certain man who played a blinder in Pairc Ui Chaoimh 21 years ago, things will start getting "bad, Bad,, really, really bad" which in any mans language is a reasonable threat to our association.
** (from the link you must click on search and insert "gaelic players" )
It's most likely my fault btw
QuoteGood post and was following you perfectly up to here ....
The details at the Company Registration Office show that A company, named Gaelic Players Management of Drumcondra Road have not made annual returns since 2007 or since their last returns were due. And what I am saying is that I am unsure as to whether this is the company that manage all the little multiple payments of fifty euro membership for the GPA. Sometimes, for legal reasons it is best not to make allegations and I am just making the point that I am not making allegations but merely raising questions from information available to the public. I am sure the simple questions I raise can be answered without any bother at all.
Ah ... ok ... get you now ... well that ties in with my understanding and what I was told about members etc ...
The GPA is just short of a 'scam' tif you ask me ... it's not a union and it's not an association with 1900 members ...
As it happens, they did make an annual return in October 2008. I am still confused though as to who the entire board of directors are and the exact legal structure of the GPA and if the GPA are The Gaelic Players Management Company - and I would say I am not on my own.
Quote from: Bud Wiser on June 28, 2009, 05:03:03 PM
I am still confused though .... if the GPA are The Gaelic Players Management Company
If you go to the GPA website http://www.gaelicplayers.com and click on the "GPA Associate Membership" tab at the top of the page, then click on the "Join Now" link on the resulting flash window, complete the short questionnaire (tshirt size etc) this will bring you to a third-party page where you enter your credit card details etc. The name "Gaelic Players Management Company Ltd" appears in large writing at the top of this last page.
I missed most of the Sunday Game last night and saw only the Cavan v Antrim bit towards the end. After this particular game, they interviewed the 2 managers, Tommy Carr and Baker Bradley. That made me wonder had RTE decided to pre-empt the upcoming GPA "protest" by blackballing the players for post-match interviews. Did they feature players' interviews after their coverage of yesterday's games?
Quote from: cornafean on June 29, 2009, 09:22:43 AM
Quote from: Bud Wiser on June 28, 2009, 05:03:03 PM
I am still confused though .... if the GPA are The Gaelic Players Management Company
If you go to the GPA website http://www.gaelicplayers.com and click on the "GPA Associate Membership" tab at the top of the page, then click on the "Join Now" link on the resulting flash window, complete the short questionnaire (tshirt size etc) this will bring you to a third-party page where you enter your credit card details etc. The name "Gaelic Players Management Company Ltd" appears in large writing at the top of this last page.
By Jaysus you're right. OOPS !
QuoteThat made me wonder had RTE decided to pre-empt the upcoming GPA "protest" by blackballing the players for post-match interviews.
If that is RTE's tact then it is a wrong one and I consider Noel Curran in RTE to be one of the shredest men in there, shrewd enough to handle a few directors of a small company like Gaelic Players Managemt company (Ltd) However, if it is a wrong move by RTE it is a bigger one by the GPA because it is the players who the ban effects more than anyone else, particularly those who like being in the limelight and there have been a few of them in our time. If the GPA had been smart enough they would have instructed players so seek as many interviews as they could get and then at each given chance promote their members commitment relative to what they are looking for. Example:
RTE: "Well that was a good win for myou today, was there any time during the game when you thought the game was slipping away when they came back at you during the first quarter of the second half?
PLAYER: "This is what we trained for five nights a week and all the hard work over the winter nights paid off today and I think it was a team effort, especially from the lads who have travelled hundreds of miles and stuck to the training regime that got us this win today. Now we must go back to training with even more intensity from next Tuesday" etc, etc,
Instead they choose to diminish the profiles of the very people they are trying to promote. And the, to add insult to every right thinking GAA man they throw in the statement made in Eamonn Sweeney's article in yesterdays Sunday Independent,
" And if the GAA try to brazen this one out? Then in the words of a certain man who played a blinder in Pairc Ui Chaoimh 21 years ago, things will start getting "bad, Bad,, really, really bad"It is my opinion that, for all the criticisms that were made of Nicky Brennan and HQ, there are more brains within HQ than there are in the strategists of the GPA and whatever benefits are going to be got for the players they have better representation from the official association than from the one with the policies that I have described. From the time that time began in the GAA, RTE (Radio Eireann) has been the conduit for the promotion of the GAA in far flung corners of the world and the crackiling broadcasts over the wires to emigrants is one of the reasons why there are clubs all over the world today, to an extent that I often wonder why RTE have to pay the GAA for broadcast rights as opposed to the other way around.
Stomping on the toes of RTE may well be a big mistake for the GPA, they may yet need them. This flurry of support for the GPA in rags like the Independent is nothing more than an opportunity for them to encourage the ban on players interviews with RTE simply because there is no love lost between the printed media in general and RTE. There is however a good relationship between RTE and the GAA and if the GPA damage that relationship, which is what they are doing, then they will have a lot to answer for.
Isn't it heartening to see that the GPA haven't imposed a blanket media ban ! Good old Vincent Hogan is still here to take instructions and defend the GPA honour. He has some cheek to talk about humility after defending the lads down south in Rebel country all winter. Humility ??? What a laugh !!!
Time for GAA to play ball with players
By Vincent Hogan
Monday June 29 2009
The only surprise about the shells now whining in the GAA's direction is how long they've taken to get air-borne. If the weekend's GPA statement proves the precursor to a summer of disconnect and staged protest, who can honestly blame them? Job would be spitting teeth if exposed to the kind of condescension and doublespeak that has been coming their way of late.
I doubt there's a hurler or footballer in the country who would go to war on the cold issue of a modest grant. But you'll find more than a few who'll take up arms if treated like fools. Right now, there's a deep reservoir of frustration out there among the country's elite GAA players.
And it might be sensible to recognise that.
Ostensibly, the subject of the stalled grants and that of the GPA's on-going struggle for official recognition are two entirely separate stories. In reality, they are one and the same.
You see, most people can live with disappointment in their lives. It's disrespect that tips them over the edge.
On the grants issue, Minister Cullen dances around the houses, speaking a language that hits the senses like industrial strength valium. True, he didn't instigate the scheme, he inherited it. And, at this time of national crisis, it's hardly high on any list of Government priorities to be humouring the country's top hurlers and footballers.
But he should consider the novelty of a straight answer to a straight question some time. It might surprise him how folk respond.
In any event, there's a pretty strong case to be made that the notion of a grants scheme for GAA players is an absurdity when set against the current economic meltdown. No more so, mind, than little sweetheart deals for wealthy professional sports people.
Is it not a repulsive thought that even one euro could be pared off the budget for Crumlin Children's Hospital at a time when millionaire sports stars side-step income tax?
Still, the absence of clarity from Government is hardly a news story. The silence of the GAA is.
It has been all too convenient for the Association to endorse a scheme that would never carry their own fingerprints. In refusing to handle the grant money, they could sustain the notion of purity and Corinthian ideals. This was hypocrisy, of course. The Irish Sports Council, reluctantly, took on the dirty business of distribution. The GAA sat firmly on its hands.
Whether the grants will simply die now or be re-invented in some neutered form is probably for another day. A report in yesterday's Sunday Independent suggested that Government moves to have the scheme limited to top-tier players was rejected by the GPA as "elitist" (now there's an irony for those inclined to depict Dessie Farrell and Co as grabbers).
Friday's statement was a shot across the bows that, frankly, has been a long time coming. As the GPA pointed out, Christy Cooney is now the fifth GAA President they have engaged with, yet they seem just as far away from healthy co-existence as they did at their inception.
Why? Because the standard repertoire of communication with the players' body remains implicitly hostile from Croke Park's side.
It's a pity that the GAA couldn't, occasionally, (a) take the kind of initiative the GPA recently took on unemployment rates among inter-county players across the country or, at worst, (b) publicly applaud it.
Instead, there remains a fundamental mistrust of the players' body that is articulated more in nuance than word.
Nickey Brennan directed a little broadside at them on leaving office and Cooney has, since, made it clear that he does not consider reaching an accommodation with the GPA as anything resembling pressing business for the Association.
One obvious bone of contention is the GPA's request for a fixed percentage of GAA income to fund their player welfare activities. It's not hard to imagine the alarm bells such a request sends ringing around Croke Park. To agree to this, the GAA would have to take a huge philosophical leap in a direction clearly repugnant to much of its core membership.
Yet, does the Association honestly believe that dilatory evasion is the answer?
What the GPA announced last Friday was a long way short of war. Players refusing to co-operate in TV interviews will embarrass the GAA -- nothing more. The move was designed essentially to get their attention.
But the fact that -- 10 years on -- getting the GAA's attention requires this kind of militant stand, speaks volumes. Is it not time for the authorities to desist from feigning a great, moral depth to their position on player welfare? Should they not -- finally -- engage in something resembling candid, transparent dialogue with the GPA? To do so, would -- surely -- reflect confidence not some fundamental retreat.
A little humility might go a long way. :D :D :D
- Vincent Hogan
A retired Laois hurler who didn't join the GPA.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/05/Down_and_out_on_New_York_pier.gif)
Very few players actually give interviews that provide any insight.
On most occasions the same old lines & cliches are trotted out, much the same as a managers interview.
Its all blowing up the opposition & playing down your own chances, while saying you are quietly confident
Same old sh1te
It will be no great loss IMHO
We can dismiss this "media ban" as a nonsense and water of a ducks back but I'd imagine it is the start of a prolonged campaign by the GPA with more far reaching measures.
It'll be very much like the recent strike on Cork which started quietly with support slowly built up behind it. The various press plants of the GPA wrote on their behalf (they already at it this time as well) and they slowly turned the public to the strikers way of thinking.
I'm sure the GPA know a strike now will wipe them out but they will take their time and build up to more major actions, possibly by the All-Ireland.
It is quite sly of the GPA to only ever mention the welfare issues of players in their press releases and the unemployment situation, they never detail their demands from the GPA and to read this without any background it would be easy to see why people would support them and this slow burning campaign will play into their hands.
The GAA need to come out strong on this and clearly and publicly state why they can't agree to the GPA's current requests.
Quote from: bingobus on June 29, 2009, 03:44:54 PM
We can dismiss this "media ban" as a nonsense and water of a ducks back but I'd imagine it is the start of a prolonged campaign by the GPA with more far reaching measures.
It'll be very much like the recent strike on Cork which started quietly with support slowly built up behind it. The various press plants of the GPA wrote on their behalf (they already at it this time as well) and they slowly turned the public to the strikers way of thinking.
I'm sure the GPA know a strike now will wipe them out but they will take their time and build up to more major actions, possibly by the All-Ireland.
It is quite sly of the GPA to only ever mention the welfare issues of players in their press releases and the unemployment situation, they never detail their demands from the GPA and to read this without any background it would be easy to see why people would support them and this slow burning campaign will play into their hands.
The GAA need to come out strong on this and clearly and publicly state why they can't agree to the GPA's current requests.
I think the Cork thing was different - the Cork CB really screwed that one up in fairness - the scribes were far more in favour of the GAA and CB initally.
If the GPA think they'll win the people with crying about unemployment - they've really lost touch
Does anyone else not think that it is in national scibes/papers best interest to have a "more" professional intercounty game? So with that in mind, why should they be listened to on that whole debate? Should we not let our own heads do the thinking?
Quote from: bingobus on June 29, 2009, 03:44:54 PM
The GAA need to come out strong on this and clearly and publicly state why they can't agree to the GPA's current requests.
This is key.
The "ignore them and they'll go away" approach and the "who do they think they are" approach will inevitably lead to some sort of chaos. Albeit it is clear that there are many GAA administrators and people who post here who would love to see that, in order to put those goddamn intercounty players back in their box.
Of course the irony is that it is these very people who caused the creation of the GPA. Give yourselves a kick up the behind.
But the GPA, including Dessie, has done a super job. Player welfare has improved across the board since their inception, most importantly regarding insurance and expenses.
So now it seems the GPA have asked for 1% of gate receipts to fund player welfare issues. And the GAA seem to have said No and Fook off. And much applause from the "let them strike" brigade.
Its time for the GAA to make a proper, dignified and concillitary stance on the issue. I would recommend a statement something like this (I'm sure the wording could be improved substantially!):
- The GAA is an amateur organisation, the GAA do not pay players and it is something that we do not forsee changing in the future.
- The GAA recognises the importance of the intercounty player. And therefore player welfare is a very important part of the GAA.
- When any player joins an inter-county panel, he is made aware of the player welfare entitlements/obligations, in particular, regarding insurance, expenses, meals, training gear. We believe that these are very fair and reasonable and would hope/expect that most aspiring intercounty players would agree. However, joining an intercounty panel is a choice and players do not have to join if they believe they should get paid.
- We are happy to discuss/address player welfare issues with the GPA or any player. For instance if a county board is falling short on the agreed player welfare conditions without good reason, or if there are potential new initiatives or ideas. However the over-riding factor will be the continuance of the amateur ethos. There will be no payments for playing. The GAA will fund player welfare directly. The GAA will not pass on the funding to other organisations for them to fund as they see fit.
This is not a battle to be won, as many here seem to think. Because we don't want any losers, because that will be hugely detrimental to the GAA. This is about the GAA taking the moral high ground, while at the same stage showing they are very much pro-player. Then nobody will win or lose, but everybody will benefit.
I agree with that hound
Now administrators in HQ......any word of youse showing a bit of leadership??
Barney Rock in today's Irish Mail reckons that the GAA should hand over 10% of the TV money to the GPA to fund their organisation.
10%. Nice work if you can get it.
Christy Cooney will receive 500,000(1/2 MILLION) euros for his term in office at the head of the GAA!
Does anyone have a list of paid GAA top brass!
I am not a GPA supporter, I do believe the players should be compensated for loss of earnings, miles etc however.
At the same time what the f*ck is Cooney getting paid that money for......... ??? ??? ???
Quote from: Final Whistle on June 30, 2009, 01:52:08 PM
Christy Cooney will receive 500,000(1/2 MILLION) euros for his term in office at the head of the GAA!
Does anyone have a list of paid GAA top brass!
I am not a GPA supporter, I do believe the players should be compensated for loss of earnings, miles etc however.
At the same time what the f*ck is Cooney getting paid that money for......... ??? ??? ???
They already are compensated.
Quote from: Final Whistle on June 30, 2009, 01:52:08 PM
Christy Cooney will receive 500,000(1/2 MILLION) euros for his term in office at the head of the GAA!
Does anyone have a list of paid GAA top brass!
I am not a GPA supporter, I do believe the players should be compensated for loss of earnings, miles etc however.
At the same time what the f*ck is Cooney getting paid that money for......... ??? ??? ???
I know some former Presidents of the GAA .. not too many driving Mercs to be honest with you and not many in it for themselves or for the career move.
When you consider the work etc ...
The only exception was/is Sean Kelly.
Whats the chances of a media ban working? I mean many of the head guys in the GPA would do 2 interviews a day if they could with very little of importance ever being said. If it means they keep their bleating to themselves then I thoroughy welcome the media ban, in fact Id have banned them years ago - I think these GPA guys feel they need the "prestige" of payment to differentiate between themselves and the other GAA volunteers from club player, club helper to say club tyrone contributor who they feel are there to serve them. If a Tyrone player was to get paid in the morning via GAA funds to play Gaelic Football it would spell the end of the guys taking money out of their businesses in this day and age to put the tracksuits on his back ie club tyrone. I wouldnt have a heirarchy of volunteerism within the GAA if it can be avoided. Of course these guys are entitled to his opinion and so are the rest of us.
y do people keep going on about getting paid??? its a grant, end of story, majority of athletes get it!!!
i have a work colleague who plays for derry, he spends approximatly £35 a week on fruit/veg and chicken for his breakfast/lunch etc, wereby i buy a sandwich at £2.50!!!
no one is asking the gaa for £30k a man, last year he recieved 1700euro, about £1500,
take
gym membership 36 per month * 8 £288
Dietary requirements 32weeks * 35 £1120
Supplements 32weeks * 10 £320
thats £1728, thats not to mention the 30mins he left work early for every training session, he has done numerous underage presentation, and never once took a penny.
he dosent do it for the money, he does it for the pride in his jersey, for his club/family etc - he will never stop playing if he doesn receive any gpa money, however i think these fellas deserve some sort of reimbursement for there dedication.
The media ban isn't aimed at annoying supporters, they can read the papers where players will still give interviews.
The media ban is aimed at the TV companys who have paid big bucks to show the games and a large part of their build up and analysis will involve player interviews.
The GPA want this to disrupt their coverage so they will put financial pressure on the GAA to work with the GPA.
Quote from: doirebhoy on June 30, 2009, 02:15:34 PM
y do people keep going on about getting paid??? its a grant, end of story, majority of athletes get it!!!
i have a work colleague who plays for derry, he spends approximatly £35 a week on fruit/veg and chicken for his breakfast/lunch etc, wereby i buy a sandwich at £2.50!!!
no one is asking the gaa for £30k a man, last year he recieved 1700euro, about £1500,
take
gym membership 36 per month * 8 £288
Dietary requirements 32weeks * 35 £1120
Supplements 32weeks * 10 £320
thats £1728, thats not to mention the 30mins he left work early for every training session, he has done numerous underage presentation, and never once took a penny.
he dosent do it for the money, he does it for the pride in his jersey, for his club/family etc - he will never stop playing if he doesn receive any gpa money, however i think these fellas deserve some sort of reimbursement for there dedication.
Where does it all end though? Thats the problem. There isn't enough cash to support 32 counties in both codes.
Quote from: doirebhoy on June 30, 2009, 02:15:34 PM
y do people keep going on about getting paid??? its a grant, end of story, majority of athletes get it!!!
i have a work colleague who plays for derry, he spends approximatly £35 a week on fruit/veg and chicken for his breakfast/lunch etc, wereby i buy a sandwich at £2.50!!!
no one is asking the gaa for £30k a man, last year he recieved 1700euro, about £1500,
take
gym membership 36 per month * 8 £288
Dietary requirements 32weeks * 35 £1120
Supplements 32weeks * 10 £320
thats £1728, thats not to mention the 30mins he left work early for every training session, he has done numerous underage presentation, and never once took a penny.
he dosent do it for the money, he does it for the pride in his jersey, for his club/family etc - he will never stop playing if he doesn receive any gpa money, however i think these fellas deserve some sort of reimbursement for there dedication.
So he sends £5 a day per week on fruit and veg and chicken. ::)
I'll not ask which supplements he takes. ;)
Gym membership, I would have thought that the CB would cover this.
Quote from: bingobus on June 30, 2009, 02:23:41 PM
Quote from: doirebhoy on June 30, 2009, 02:15:34 PM
y do people keep going on about getting paid??? its a grant, end of story, majority of athletes get it!!!
i have a work colleague who plays for derry, he spends approximatly £35 a week on fruit/veg and chicken for his breakfast/lunch etc, wereby i buy a sandwich at £2.50!!!
no one is asking the gaa for £30k a man, last year he recieved 1700euro, about £1500,
take
gym membership 36 per month * 8 £288
Dietary requirements 32weeks * 35 £1120
Supplements 32weeks * 10 £320
thats £1728, thats not to mention the 30mins he left work early for every training session, he has done numerous underage presentation, and never once took a penny.
he dosent do it for the money, he does it for the pride in his jersey, for his club/family etc - he will never stop playing if he doesn receive any gpa money, however i think these fellas deserve some sort of reimbursement for there dedication.
So he sends £5 a day per week on fruit and veg and chicken. ::)
I'll not ask which supplements he takes. ;)
Gym membership, I would have thought that the CB would cover this.
£5 does not go that far. Especially down Mexico way!! ;)
Quote from: doirebhoy on June 30, 2009, 02:15:34 PM
y do people keep going on about getting paid??? its a grant, end of story, majority of athletes get it!!!
i have a work colleague who plays for derry, he spends approximatly £35 a week on fruit/veg and chicken for his breakfast/lunch etc, wereby i buy a sandwich at £2.50!!!
no one is asking the gaa for £30k a man, last year he recieved 1700euro, about £1500,
take
gym membership 36 per month * 8 £288
Dietary requirements 32weeks * 35 £1120
Supplements 32weeks * 10 £320
thats £1728, thats not to mention the 30mins he left work early for every training session, he has done numerous underage presentation, and never once took a penny.
he dosent do it for the money, he does it for the pride in his jersey, for his club/family etc - he will never stop playing if he doesn receive any gpa money, however i think these fellas deserve some sort of reimbursement for there dedication.
I wish I could get someone to subsidise my lunch and breakfast. Does he eat a whole chicken every day? (No wonder Derry were so slow last Sunday week if that's the case) Is there no Asda in his neck of the woods? ;D
ok ok one rule for all then-gaa amateur no one to get paid- that applies to the suits too!!!
500,000 for a three year term!!! (Are you Brian Cown in disguise????)
Quote from: doirebhoy on June 30, 2009, 02:15:34 PM
y do people keep going on about getting paid??? its a grant, end of story, majority of athletes get it!!!
i have a work colleague who plays for derry, he spends approximatly £35 a week on fruit/veg and chicken for his breakfast/lunch etc, wereby i buy a sandwich at £2.50!!!
no one is asking the gaa for £30k a man, last year he recieved 1700euro, about £1500,
take
gym membership 36 per month * 8 £288
Dietary requirements 32weeks * 35 £1120
Supplements 32weeks * 10 £320
thats £1728, thats not to mention the 30mins he left work early for every training session, he has done numerous underage presentation, and never once took a penny.
he dosent do it for the money, he does it for the pride in his jersey, for his club/family etc - he will never stop playing if he doesn receive any gpa money, however i think these fellas deserve some sort of reimbursement for there dedication.
On the up side though ...
- He has a handy sales rep job
- Company car and fuel card
- Missus is a fine lash of thing - captain of the county camogie team too
- He's never had to buy a pint in the local since they won the county final with 13 men
- He gets tickets and discounts to various things - such as a few grand of his wedding last year
- If the local supermarket is being opened he gets a few grand to cut the tape
- Adidas pay him 2,000 a year and a load of free gear
- He has plenty of pull if he needs a favour here or there after getting tickets for people down the years
- 30,000 fans cheer his name very Sunday
- He gets a sh*g every night at the local nightclub
- Kids treat him like a God and want his autograph
... it's not all bad ...
Quote from: JMohan on June 30, 2009, 02:45:26 PM
- Missus is a fine lash of thing - captain of the county camogie team too
No chance ;)
Quote from: doirebhoy on June 30, 2009, 02:15:34 PM
y do people keep going on about getting paid??? its a grant, end of story, majority of athletes get it!!!
i have a work colleague who plays for derry, he spends approximatly £35 a week on fruit/veg and chicken for his breakfast/lunch etc, wereby i buy a sandwich at £2.50!!!
no one is asking the gaa for £30k a man, last year he recieved 1700euro, about £1500,
take
gym membership 36 per month * 8 £288
Dietary requirements 32weeks * 35 £1120
Supplements 32weeks * 10 £320
thats £1728, thats not to mention the 30mins he left work early for every training session, he has done numerous underage presentation, and never once took a penny.
he dosent do it for the money, he does it for the pride in his jersey, for his club/family etc - he will never stop playing if he doesn receive any gpa money, however i think these fellas deserve some sort of reimbursement for there dedication.
I understand what you are saying here - that the guy is a couple of hundred quid out of pocket..
but plenty of people not on the Derry squad that play for local clubs will do likewise (maybe not the leaving work early - though I used to have to do so at times for club matches years ago)
Similarly people not involved in sports might also go to the gym and pay similar amounts for food etc
however any sport costs people money - eg the €150 club membership for our club in dublin.
so far this year it has cost me over €250 euros in text messages alone toplayers. Not sure what actual phone calls have cost.
Factor in my time and petrol money to get to games/training - twice a week minimum - more if we have games on.
I have paid the ref and am about to send in a bill to the club to be reimbursed for €160.
This all has to be paid up front.
As I am 'tutoring' 35 lads (attendance at training can be from 13 to 24 people) should I not also get paid for my experience/time/loss of earnings?
There are a couple of lads I have coached that have made it already up to Dublin minor/u21 level ....
(prob co-incidence though)
the answer is no. I dont do it to get paid. when I played I didnt do it to get paid. I accepted that I was going to 'lose out' in social life, time, work, effort etc etc etc. You know and accept this when starting out.
So the €1700 your friend received is close to being spot on in terms of reimbursement. Does that include petrol money ?
I'd be in favour however of a couple of hundred quid more though.
But thats it. Nothing on top of that.No GPA etc etc
IMO the player monies was always going to rise whether dessie farrell and co came to the fore or not.
this has been an issue since the early 90's.
Player welfare is still not fully covered imo. But as a society we didnt have this kind of cover/care in place so that the GAA slightly lags behind is not a crime.
Welfare/inj fund/disabillity fund needs to be addressed imo.
We dont need GPA for that.
I also agree that €500k is too much for our head man to be getting !
Quote from: doirebhoy on June 30, 2009, 02:15:34 PM
y do people keep going on about getting paid??? its a grant, end of story, majority of athletes get it!!!
i have a work colleague who plays for derry, he spends approximatly £35 a week on fruit/veg and chicken for his breakfast/lunch etc, wereby i buy a sandwich at £2.50!!!
no one is asking the gaa for £30k a man, last year he recieved 1700euro, about £1500,
take
gym membership 36 per month * 8 £288
Dietary requirements 32weeks * 35 £1120
Supplements 32weeks * 10 £320
thats £1728, thats not to mention the 30mins he left work early for every training session, he has done numerous underage presentation, and never once took a penny.
he dosent do it for the money, he does it for the pride in his jersey, for his club/family etc - he will never stop playing if he doesn receive any gpa money, however i think these fellas deserve some sort of reimbursement for there dedication.
You should eat more. 1 sandwich a week is not enough nutrition for you lad.. ;D
Do the Derry boys not get free gym membership? I'm almost certain the Tyrone boys in the Strabane District Council area get free use of the leisure centres in the district.
Quote from: Rois on June 30, 2009, 04:05:01 PM
Do the Derry boys not get free gym membership? I'm almost certain the Tyrone boys in the Strabane District Council area get free use of the leisure centres in the district.
I thought they did or at least they definitely use to.
Quote from: doirebhoy on June 30, 2009, 02:15:34 PM
y do people keep going on about getting paid??? its a grant, end of story, majority of athletes get it!!!
i have a work colleague who plays for derry, he spends approximatly £35 a week on fruit/veg and chicken for his breakfast/lunch etc, wereby i buy a sandwich at £2.50!!!
no one is asking the gaa for £30k a man, last year he recieved 1700euro, about £1500,
take
gym membership 36 per month * 8 £288
Dietary requirements 32weeks * 35 £1120
Supplements 32weeks * 10 £320
thats £1728, thats not to mention the 30mins he left work early for every training session, he has done numerous underage presentation, and never once took a penny.
he dosent do it for the money, he does it for the pride in his jersey, for his club/family etc - he will never stop playing if he doesn receive any gpa money, however i think these fellas deserve some sort of reimbursement for there dedication.
doirebhoy , im surprised that you haven't included the re-hydration allowance. Remember about a year ago Enda Mc Nulty defending the GPA and its members, among other things the absence of a re-hydration allowance.
On another side note there was no talk of a media ban when club energise " allegedly" were throwing out xxx euro everytime anyone appeared on television drinking it . Some of the post match interviews turned into pantomimes with certain players able to squeeze 7 or 8 " swigs" .
Quote from: JMohan on June 30, 2009, 02:45:26 PM
Quote from: doirebhoy on June 30, 2009, 02:15:34 PM
y do people keep going on about getting paid??? its a grant, end of story, majority of athletes get it!!!
i have a work colleague who plays for derry, he spends approximatly £35 a week on fruit/veg and chicken for his breakfast/lunch etc, wereby i buy a sandwich at £2.50!!!
no one is asking the gaa for £30k a man, last year he recieved 1700euro, about £1500,
take
gym membership 36 per month * 8 £288
Dietary requirements 32weeks * 35 £1120
Supplements 32weeks * 10 £320
thats £1728, thats not to mention the 30mins he left work early for every training session, he has done numerous underage presentation, and never once took a penny.
he dosent do it for the money, he does it for the pride in his jersey, for his club/family etc - he will never stop playing if he doesn receive any gpa money, however i think these fellas deserve some sort of reimbursement for there dedication.
On the up side though ...
- He has a handy sales rep job
- Company car and fuel card
- Missus is a fine lash of thing - captain of the county camogie team too
- He's never had to buy a pint in the local since they won the county final with 13 men
- He gets tickets and discounts to various things - such as a few grand of his wedding last year
- If the local supermarket is being opened he gets a few grand to cut the tape
- Adidas pay him 2,000 a year and a load of free gear
- He has plenty of pull if he needs a favour here or there after getting tickets for people down the years
- 30,000 fans cheer his name very Sunday
- He gets a sh*g every night at the local nightclub
- Kids treat him like a God and want his autograph
... it's not all bad ...
Theres plenty of downsides too-but the advantages would outweigh the disadvantages!!
I think a solution to the problem would be simple-for every representative on a county squad their clubs should get £xxx amount of money towards development!
There would not be too many players that would argue with that.
I think the main issue is being side stepped-how is the president entitled to 500,000?
Quote from: lynchbhoy on June 30, 2009, 03:04:17 PM
Quote from: doirebhoy on June 30, 2009, 02:15:34 PM
y do people keep going on about getting paid??? its a grant, end of story, majority of athletes get it!!!
i have a work colleague who plays for derry, he spends approximatly £35 a week on fruit/veg and chicken for his breakfast/lunch etc, wereby i buy a sandwich at £2.50!!!
no one is asking the gaa for £30k a man, last year he recieved 1700euro, about £1500,
take
gym membership 36 per month * 8 £288
Dietary requirements 32weeks * 35 £1120
Supplements 32weeks * 10 £320
thats £1728, thats not to mention the 30mins he left work early for every training session, he has done numerous underage presentation, and never once took a penny.
he dosent do it for the money, he does it for the pride in his jersey, for his club/family etc - he will never stop playing if he doesn receive any gpa money, however i think these fellas deserve some sort of reimbursement for there dedication.
I understand what you are saying here - that the guy is a couple of hundred quid out of pocket..
but plenty of people not on the Derry squad that play for local clubs will do likewise (maybe not the leaving work early - though I used to have to do so at times for club matches years ago)
Similarly people not involved in sports might also go to the gym and pay similar amounts for food etc
however any sport costs people money - eg the €150 club membership for our club in dublin.
so far this year it has cost me over €250 euros in text messages alone toplayers. Not sure what actual phone calls have cost.
Factor in my time and petrol money to get to games/training - twice a week minimum - more if we have games on.
I have paid the ref and am about to send in a bill to the club to be reimbursed for €160.
This all has to be paid up front.
As I am 'tutoring' 35 lads (attendance at training can be from 13 to 24 people) should I not also get paid for my experience/time/loss of earnings?
There are a couple of lads I have coached that have made it already up to Dublin minor/u21 level ....
(prob co-incidence though)
the answer is no. I dont do it to get paid. when I played I didnt do it to get paid. I accepted that I was going to 'lose out' in social life, time, work, effort etc etc etc. You know and accept this when starting out.
So the €1700 your friend received is close to being spot on in terms of reimbursement. Does that include petrol money ?
I'd be in favour however of a couple of hundred quid more though.
But thats it. Nothing on top of that.No GPA etc etc
IMO the player monies was always going to rise whether dessie farrell and co came to the fore or not.
this has been an issue since the early 90's.
Player welfare is still not fully covered imo. But as a society we didnt have this kind of cover/care in place so that the GAA slightly lags behind is not a crime.
Welfare/inj fund/disabillity fund needs to be addressed imo.
We dont need GPA for that.
I also agree that €500k is too much for our head man to be getting !
Dont you start, we're not buying your breakfast and lunch too!
Quote from: doirebhoy on June 30, 2009, 02:15:34 PM
y do people keep going on about getting paid??? its a grant, end of story, majority of athletes get it!!!
i have a work colleague who plays for derry, he spends approximatly £35 a week on fruit/veg and chicken for his breakfast/lunch etc, wereby i buy a sandwich at £2.50!!!
no one is asking the gaa for £30k a man, last year he recieved 1700euro, about £1500,
take
gym membership 36 per month * 8 £288
Dietary requirements 32weeks * 35 £1120
Supplements 32weeks * 10 £320
thats £1728, thats not to mention the 30mins he left work early for every training session, he has done numerous underage presentation, and never once took a penny.
he dosent do it for the money, he does it for the pride in his jersey, for his club/family etc - he will never stop playing if he doesn receive any gpa money, however i think these fellas deserve some sort of reimbursement for there dedication.
Think of the money he is saving being off the drink for 9 months of the year. Would by far outweigh his costs!
I haven't read all the thread so if I am making a point which is already made then, apologies!
Media bans on players is maybe a good thing, players interviews in the papers or tv before or after a match are awful. I'm yet to come across anyone with the slighest bit of personality or charisma. The same old cliches are heard every sunday on tv or every day coming up to a match in the papers. They are embarrasing to read or listen to.
slightly off topic but has anyone noticed the amount of times gaa players use the word "maybe" during interviews? Seems to be particularly common with us nordies! It seems they're all petrified off having their interview plastered over the oppositions changing rooms and being used as a motivational tool! Check out next player interview and look out for something along these lines "...Armagh have been playing well but maybe weve got that bit extra character after lasts weeks performance which maybe might give us an edge..." Next in the popularity stakes has to be caricture (character in a thick terown accent!)
Quote from: Final Whistle on June 30, 2009, 04:33:59 PM
Quote from: JMohan on June 30, 2009, 02:45:26 PM
Quote from: doirebhoy on June 30, 2009, 02:15:34 PM
y do people keep going on about getting paid??? its a grant, end of story, majority of athletes get it!!!
i have a work colleague who plays for derry, he spends approximatly £35 a week on fruit/veg and chicken for his breakfast/lunch etc, wereby i buy a sandwich at £2.50!!!
no one is asking the gaa for £30k a man, last year he recieved 1700euro, about £1500,
take
gym membership 36 per month * 8 £288
Dietary requirements 32weeks * 35 £1120
Supplements 32weeks * 10 £320
thats £1728, thats not to mention the 30mins he left work early for every training session, he has done numerous underage presentation, and never once took a penny.
he dosent do it for the money, he does it for the pride in his jersey, for his club/family etc - he will never stop playing if he doesn receive any gpa money, however i think these fellas deserve some sort of reimbursement for there dedication.
On the up side though ...
- He has a handy sales rep job
- Company car and fuel card
- Missus is a fine lash of thing - captain of the county camogie team too
- He's never had to buy a pint in the local since they won the county final with 13 men
- He gets tickets and discounts to various things - such as a few grand of his wedding last year
- If the local supermarket is being opened he gets a few grand to cut the tape
- Adidas pay him 2,000 a year and a load of free gear
- He has plenty of pull if he needs a favour here or there after getting tickets for people down the years
- 30,000 fans cheer his name very Sunday
- He gets a sh*g every night at the local nightclub
- Kids treat him like a God and want his autograph
... it's not all bad ...
Theres plenty of downsides too-but the advantages would outweigh the disadvantages!!
I think a solution to the problem would be simple-for every representative on a county squad their clubs should get £xxx amount of money towards development!
There would not be too many players that would argue with that.
I think the main issue is being side stepped-how is the president entitled to 500,000?
A number of players in some counties gave their money to their club anyway ...
Quote from: Bensars on June 30, 2009, 04:09:54 PM
Quote from: doirebhoy on June 30, 2009, 02:15:34 PM
y do people keep going on about getting paid??? its a grant, end of story, majority of athletes get it!!!
i have a work colleague who plays for derry, he spends approximatly £35 a week on fruit/veg and chicken for his breakfast/lunch etc, wereby i buy a sandwich at £2.50!!!
no one is asking the gaa for £30k a man, last year he recieved 1700euro, about £1500,
take
gym membership 36 per month * 8 £288
Dietary requirements 32weeks * 35 £1120
Supplements 32weeks * 10 £320
thats £1728, thats not to mention the 30mins he left work early for every training session, he has done numerous underage presentation, and never once took a penny.
he dosent do it for the money, he does it for the pride in his jersey, for his club/family etc - he will never stop playing if he doesn receive any gpa money, however i think these fellas deserve some sort of reimbursement for there dedication.
doirebhoy , im surprised that you haven't included the re-hydration allowance. Remember about a year ago Enda Mc Nulty defending the GPA and its members, among other things the absence of a re-hydration allowance.
On another side note there was no talk of a media ban when club energise " allegedly" were throwing out xxx euro everytime anyone appeared on television drinking it . Some of the post match interviews turned into pantomimes with certain players able to squeeze 7 or 8 " swigs" .
1. - Anyone spending that much on supplements is crazy
2. - McNulty lost it years ago with that remark - we're not in a desert!
Heard Peter Canavan talking on Today FM about this yesterday, he was banging the GPA drum and wheeled out the recession and unemployed players line.
Thought his arguments where very weak and contradictatory. He made the case of the 10 players unemployed players on the Donegal panel who could be spending 20/30 a week with the county panel and it been the case where their wife/partner will question why they spend so much time with the county panel when the should be looking for work.
He said that this grant was invaluable now to players and then later talked that it was a pittance, only a token gesture that the GAA should now pick up.
I get the sense that the GPA are going to straight for the neck on this one. Was Dessie not quoted previously that they wouldn't expect the GAA to foot the bill for this?
QuoteThought his arguments where very weak and contradictatory. He made the case of the 10 players unemployed players on the Donegal panel who could be spending 20/30 a week with the county panel and it been the case where their wife/partner will question why they spend so much time with the county panel when the should be looking for work.
They'd need to get their priorities in order then.
It looks like Dessie has sent out the foot soldiers
Cavanagh, then this, I would say in the next few weeks there will be more bleating coming for the pro-GPA camp
And to think the GPA line was that it was only a govn grant and would not hold the GAA liable for its demise. I dont mind the cheerleaders of the players coming on and defending the grants debacle, they are mercenaries - its what they do so fair enough, but we had decent GAA guys who were duped into thinking the grants maybe wasnt such a terrible idea. Ill not name names but those guys today stand accused of being weakminded, weakforesighted and weak principled - Its they who I feel sorry for. Id love to know is that teh cost of the office of president ie travel 300 for say 300 days in 3 years / hotel accomodation and meals iin most of them or is it an actual taxable salary grant which is plus expenses. As we continue this arguements isnt Dessie earning his salary too.
Quote from: rrhf on July 01, 2009, 10:09:03 AM
As we continue this arguements isnt Dessie earning his salary too.
He's not the only one making serious money from the GPA. There are others and they're not even intercounty players.
Quote from: bingobus on July 01, 2009, 09:48:36 AM
Heard Peter Canavan talking on Today FM about this yesterday, he was banging the GPA drum and wheeled out the recession and unemployed players line.
Thought his arguments where very weak and contradictatory. He made the case of the 10 players unemployed players on the Donegal panel who could be spending 20/30 a week with the county panel and it been the case where their wife/partner will question why they spend so much time with the county panel when the should be looking for work.
He said that this grant was invaluable now to players and then later talked that it was a pittance, only a token gesture that the GAA should now pick up.
I get the sense that the GPA are going to straight for the neck on this one. Was Dessie not quoted previously that they wouldn't expect the GAA to foot the bill for this?
As Oneill has said - they need to get their priorities right.
You dont spend all day looking for work either. I'd also expect that county training etc is still performed in the evening time so I dont see how it interferes with players looking for work.
Players have the easy choice to make. If they have to go elsewhere to look for work - then they go.
I think it was Anthony cunningham of Crossmaglen that coul dhave played for Armagh but chose not to due to work/family responsibilities.
Thats life.
Thats why it is an amateur game.
there is not enough money to pay for Football/Hurling ot be pro or even semi-pro.
You cant just pick and choose pro/semi-pro players and leave the majority not getting paid. Who would these pro/semi-pro players actually play against (or with !)
the gpa are losing the run of thmselves.
While I would like the player welfare (for inj/disabillity etc) continue to increase, I dont know if there is a player unemployment benefit fund.
IMO the GPA (or indeed GAA) should be investing in this (paying lads who were prev self employed and now not working and not eligible fo the dole) and keeping players, families, club teams, communities etc afloat.
Thats a big IF this money could be afforded.
It would certainly be more worthwhile than paying the elite what they 'think' they are entitled to!
Quote from: rrhf on July 01, 2009, 10:09:03 AM
And to think the GPA line was that it was only a govn grant and would not hold the GAA liable for its demise. I dont mind the cheerleaders of the players coming on and defending the grants debacle, they are mercenaries - its what they do so fair enough, but we had decent GAA guys who were duped into thinking the grants maybe wasnt such a terrible idea. Ill not name names but those guys today stand accused of being weakminded, weakforesighted and weak principled - Its they who I feel sorry for. Id love to know is that teh cost of the office of president ie travel 300 for say 300 days in 3 years / hotel accomodation and meals iin most of them or is it an actual taxable salary grant which is plus expenses. As we continue this arguements isnt Dessie earning his salary too.
Without going over old wearied ground - the grants are a palatable idea. It's in line with most sporting grants in the country. The same people who thought the sky was falling this time last year or that their love of the game had changed utterly were there in Croker a few months later cheering on the same players without the idea of a grant passing through them for even a split second. But that's old news and we've moved on.
However, the GPA PR has been disastrous this last week. Cavanagh and Canavan's comments are doing a great disservice to what had been achieved, or as accepted as the norm by the easily excited, in the last 12 months. I understand the need to fight for equality or to identify any inequalities and if other sporting bodies were not having their similar funding cut, then there'd be a case. Or if the GAA were seen to be lining the pockets of the white collars whilst the players were being affected by the economy, then there'd be a case to investigate.
But to go down the line of unemployment/breadline is a PR disaster and will garner absolutely zilch sympathy. Poor advice being dished out here to the talking heads.
cavanagh and canavan are both legends in the modern game but their comments in recent times are doing them little good.
the purpose of the GAA is to PROVIDE AND PROMTE GAELIC GAMES and in my opinion they do this fairly well. nowhere in the gaa aims does it mention helping players find employment nor should it. in fact i would say that the gaa has provided an invaluable source of entertainment throughout the countries troubled economic history.
if players cannot give of their time to play football because they need to be working extra hours or looking for work that is fair enough. antrim's sean mcveigh is a prime example, after playing throughout the league he has gone to the usa in search of work and so missing a run to the ulster final.
players out of work/emigrating is sad but we must remember that it is happening throughout the country and in no way should anyone say the GAA is obliged to help out.
Quote from: ONeill on July 01, 2009, 09:54:36 AM
QuoteThought his arguments where very weak and contradictatory. He made the case of the 10 players unemployed players on the Donegal panel who could be spending 20/30 a week with the county panel and it been the case where their wife/partner will question why they spend so much time with the county panel when the should be looking for work.
They'd need to get their priorities in order then.
Have you seen the cost of divorce lawyers these days ;) :D
We can dismiss this as bad PR but funny enough the texts coming in where very mixed with many stating that the GAA should be looking after the players and paying grants etc. A few did comment it was the choice but the danger here is that those on the fringes of the GAA, who attend matches etc but go home after it will see the money going into the GAA and feel that the players should be getting a cut. That is who will vocally support the GPA, who will be after this mob mentality.
Canavan also wheeled out the young players going to OZ to play and that the grants/gaa should look at some way of keeping them.
Cooper said that the GAA ameteur ethos would be at risk with such payments and Canavan came back with the student scholarships that the GAA pay out already and said that could these not be viewed as payments to amateur. Thought that was poor form.
The GPA & their foot soldiers will use any method & say anything to get what they want.
They really need the backing of the average GAA member & will do what it takes to get this.
The majority of posters on here would have more interest than the average supporter & can usually see through the bullsh1t, but be prepared for more interviews in the coming weeks when the gloves will really come off
Quote from: bingobus on July 01, 2009, 09:48:36 AM
Heard Peter Canavan talking on Today FM about this yesterday, he was banging the GPA drum and wheeled out the recession and unemployed players line.
Thought his arguments where very weak and contradictatory. He made the case of the 10 players unemployed players on the Donegal panel who could be spending 20/30 a week with the county panel and it been the case where their wife/partner will question why they spend so much time with the county panel when the should be looking for work.
He said that this grant was invaluable now to players and then later talked that it was a pittance, only a token gesture that the GAA should now pick up.
I get the sense that the GPA are going to straight for the neck on this one. Was Dessie not quoted previously that they wouldn't expect the GAA to foot the bill for this?
Unfortunately the media ban doesn't extend to Today FM ::)
Quote from: full back on July 01, 2009, 11:27:14 AM
The GPA & their foot soldiers will use any method & say anything to get what they want.
They really need the backing of the average GAA member & will do what it takes to get this.
The majority of posters on here would have more interest than the average supporter & can usually see through the bullsh1t, but be prepared for more interviews in the coming weeks when the gloves will really come off
Thats the problem, it'll be the same as the Cork strike. GPA dominate the media and we'll be left with nothing from the GAA.
They need to call the GPA out on this. Has a union in any workplace ever downed tools to look for a % of the companys turnover?
Peter was also introduced as a GPA member. Is not only open to current County players?
GPA has three types of membership
Current Inter County Player
Former Inter County Player
Associate
In other words it's open to absolutely anyone with €50 (associate fee)
My reading of the current state of the GPA/GAA "dispute" is as follows:
1. The dogs in the street know that government funding for sport (including the GPA grants) will be slashed mercilessly in the coming months. This is especially topical just now as the report on cutbacks from An Bord Snip Nua is due for release this week. According to yesterday's Irish Indo, it is not outside the bounds of possibility that Minister Cullen's Department will be abolished entirely.
2. When (not if) government sports funding is slashed, then this will negatively affect the GAA at all levels. Christy Cooney et al know this as do Dessie Farrell, Donal O'Neill and the other leaders of the GPA.
3. Both sides also know that, in a few months time, any claim by the GPA for a share of GAA money will look both greedy and stupid. The GAA leaders are keen to slow down the debate until after the impending bombshell hits, at which time they will be able to summarily dismiss the GPA's claims using the (not unreasonable) excuse that "we can't afford it". For their part, the GPA are aware that they must act urgently otherwise their opportunity will pass. Hence their current militancy.
What annoys me most though is knowing that the people the GPA should have the issue with is NOT the GAA but the Government who introduced the grants in the first place.
Secondly the issue should NEVER be pay for play - it should be a TAX RELIEF for those playing so that the people can save on their basic income.... just like that gangster Charlie did for the horse people (ironically who have been helping contribute to the funding for Kildare over the yesrs)
Quote from: JMohan on July 01, 2009, 12:24:47 PM
What annoys me most though is knowing that the people the GPA should have the issue with is NOT the GAA but the Government who introduced the grants in the first place.
Secondly the issue should NEVER be pay for play - it should be a TAX RELIEF for those playing so that the people can save on their basic income.... just like that gangster Charlie did for the horse people (ironically who have been helping contribute to the funding for Kildare over the yesrs)
Impossible to work within the tax code because you can only get tax relief on your earnings. They don't earn from the sport so they can't get a tax break.
Why can't you have tax relief from earnings other than the sport?
On what grounds?Don't see how that would ever get passed in the tax courts. The Govt would have to offer it to every sport in the country and lets face it in the current climate it isn't going to happen.
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on July 01, 2009, 11:38:46 AM
GPA has three types of membership
Current Inter County Player
Former Inter County Player
Associate
In other words it's open to absolutely anyone with €50 (associate fee)
And what does associate membership entail?
Looks like a nice way of saying hanger on to me.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 01, 2009, 12:42:34 PM
On what grounds?Don't see how that would ever get passed in the tax courts. The Govt would have to offer it to every sport in the country and lets face it in the current climate it isn't going to happen.
Well they offered a grant - what's the difference?
The tax relief issue was the original plan anyway
In any case the issue should be with the Government not the GAA
The "grant" could have been in the form of a tax credit, like the tax credits that exist for the likes of refuse charges, and to specific groups such as PAYE employees or blind people.
The problem with this is that it would have been no use to players from the 6 counties.
Does anyone know if Dessie or Sean Cavanagh has ever explored the possibility of getting a share of the "grant funds" from the NI executive or the UK exchequer?
Quote from: JMohan on July 01, 2009, 12:45:59 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on July 01, 2009, 12:42:34 PM
On what grounds?Don't see how that would ever get passed in the tax courts. The Govt would have to offer it to every sport in the country and lets face it in the current climate it isn't going to happen.
Well they offered a grant - what's the difference?
The tax relief issue was the original plan anyway
In any case the issue should be with the Government not the GAA
The tax relief plan was scrapped because it had no jurisdiction in the 6 counties and because any relief could only be granted on their earnings from the sport- which there were none.
Tax credits have to be available to everyone.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 01, 2009, 12:42:34 PM
On what grounds?Don't see how that would ever get passed in the tax courts. The Govt would have to offer it to every sport in the country and lets face it in the current climate it isn't going to happen.
I don't think so. The tax system is riddled with similar anomalies. For example there is a small tax allowance that can be claimed by forestry workers if they work for Coillte, but forest workers who work for other employers aren't entitled to it. To date, nobody has felt sufficiently aggrieved to stump up half a million euro to challenge it in the High Court or Supreme Court. I don't think there would have been a challenge to an intercounty players' tax credit either.
Inter-county player tax credit would not work as it would be of no value to students/unemployed/Nordies.
there would because the Minister for Finance would be obligated to offer it all other sports. Mc Creevy's submission to the Dail said as much. Tax concessions to amateurs would opne the floodgates for every Tom Dick and Harry to claim going to the gym was as much an amateur sport.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 01, 2009, 01:05:29 PM
there would because the Minister for Finance would be obligated to offer it all other sports. Mc Creevy's submission to the Dail said as much. Tax concessions to amateurs would opne the floodgates for every Tom Dick and Harry to claim going to the gym was as much an amateur sport.
In theory, possibly. In practice, definitely not. Nobody is going to spend €500k in the Supreme Court to gain a €2K tax break. See the Coillte example above. If McCreevy said otherwise in the Dail, he was telling a little porky.
Quote from: thebandit on July 01, 2009, 12:42:42 PM
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on July 01, 2009, 11:38:46 AM
GPA has three types of membership
Current Inter County Player
Former Inter County Player
Associate
In other words it's open to absolutely anyone with €50 (associate fee)
And what does associate membership entail?
Looks like a nice way of saying hanger on to me.
Associate membership is open to "male Gaelic footballers, female gaelic footballers, camogie players, hurlers and non-playing supporters". Seems to me like my 83 year old father and my nine year old daughter could both be associate members. ???
It doesn't cost 500k- ever hear of political pressure and votes? There is no way a Govt would bring in a tax break like that- it would cost them votes and it would leave them open to a multitude of challenges. It was never a runner. Anyway the Govt has closed 90% of those schemes that you're referring to. They aren't going to open another one.
the 40% tax relief to professional sportspeople is likely to be scrapped at the next Budget so amateurs haven't a prayer at this stage.
A counter arguement....
Listen lads in the days of shares falling through the floor, an associate membershiup of the GPA could indeed be the investment we are looking for. Slow to pay out at first, if Dessie secures more sponsorships or indeed if we get Pay for play instead of the money going into the GAA kitty we can be part of the GPA "siphon" Now where do I sign up?
Quote from: INDIANA on July 01, 2009, 01:23:08 PM
It doesn't cost 500k- ever hear of political pressure and votes? There is no way a Govt would bring in a tax break like that- it would cost them votes and it would leave them open to a multitude of challenges. It was never a runner. Anyway the Govt has closed 90% of those schemes that you're referring to. They aren't going to open another one.
the 40% tax relief to professional sportspeople is likely to be scrapped at the next Budget so amateurs haven't a prayer at this stage.
As I said already, the tax system is already riddled with such tax breaks, nost of them motivated by"political pressure and votes" and most of them theoretically vulnerable to High Court or Supreme Court challege (the latter which would indeed set you back half a million or the guts of it).
By the way, I'm not arguing for another silly tax break, in my view the sports grants/tax breaks/political slush fund horse has bolted, so there's little point in arguing this to death.
Quote from: rrhf on July 01, 2009, 02:10:57 PM
A counter arguement....
Listen lads in the days of shares falling through the floor, an associate membershiup of the GPA could indeed be the investment we are looking for. Slow to pay out at first, if Dessie secures more sponsorships or indeed if we get Pay for play instead of the money going into the GAA kitty we can be part of the GPA "siphon" Now where do I sign up?
But how many real shareholders are there in the GPA? That's the real question!! Answer: a lot less than you would think!
There are only two shareholders in the Gaelic Players Management Company, one with a 75% stake and the other with a 25% stake. Since it is not a company without shares and limited by guarantee, as is normal for a non-profit making company, I would assume that their assets will be taxed.
I did accounts for a company there a while ago and the company owed P.A.Y.E. and a few bob in Vat. Mr Tax man went directly into the companies bank account and scooped out what he wanted without as much as a warning. I applied for Grant Aid from the Enterprise Board and I was told that I had to produce a Tax Clearance Cert even though I was only starting a new company. What I am saying is, how can another company apply for a Government Grant if they owe VAT, or better still, how did they get previous grants at a time when they appeared to owe vat?
Here is the information that is available from the CRO Site.
Donal O'Neill and a guy called David Burke own 75% and 25% of the shareholding respectively.
The company had net assets of €159,694 as at the end of December. This is a sizeable sum for a company owned by only 2 individuals in toays stormy weather. The company paid Corporation Tax of €21,209. The notes to the accounts do not include (as they should) a reconciliation of how this figure is calculated, but the accounts do note that the entire Corporation Tax bill arose in respect of profits charged at 12.5%., this would indicate that the company made profits of €169,672 in 2007, again a tidy sum (after directors salaries etc) to be shared among two individuals.
The movement in 2007 in "equity shareholders funds" as per the Balance Sheet is €145,273, which ties up pretty closely with the post-tax profits of €148,463 as indicated by the Corporation Tax bill, as above. The accounts record the company as owing €78,590 to the Revenue as at 31 December 2007 and €52,973 as at 31 December 2006. So was this owed when they got original funding? This would normally appear to indicate an ongoing problem with VAT arrears and/or cashflow, which is hard to understand. The Balance Sheet figure for "Creditors falling due within 1 year" of €193,041 does not tie up with the total of the corresponding note, Note 5, €103,226. Why? I don't know, especially when the accounts were audited without qualification. the Balance Sheet includes "Creditors falling due within 1 year" of €93,056, which is referenced to note 6, but Note 6 does not appear in the notes. The notes jump from Note 5 to Note 7. Again the same omission was made in the 2006 accounts. The company had "cash in bank and at hand" of €121,125 as at 31 December 2007, which is very curious given the existence of the large VAT liability as at that date. The "cash in bank and at hand" as at 31 December 2006 was €247,626. The company's debtors as at 31 December 2008 were €319,180, a massive increase on the corresponding figure of €63,510 a year earlier. Ciaran McArdle was appointed as director on 1 October 2008 and signed the accounts in this capacity on 22 October 2008. The company's 2008 B1 return was made up to 30 September 2008 (the maximum 9 months after the year end of 31/12/07) and Ciaran McArdle signed the B1 as a director on 24 October 2008. McArdle's appointment as a director after the year-end is not recorded in the accounts.
The auditor's report on the abridged accounts is dated 24-10-08, two days after the directors signed the accounts. The date on which the auditor's report on the full financial accounts is required to be stated as part of the auditor's report on the abridged accounts. it is standard auditing practice to date the audit report concurrent with the date the directors have signed the accounts. (Note in this regard that, as the date is handwritten on the audit report, the final digit of this date is a bit unclear.). Note 1.4 indicates that the company has a defined contribution pension scheme for its employees. There is no mention in the financial statements of any amounts owing by the company to the directors at the year end, or of any transactions between the company and the directors during the year. There is no mention either of any connection between Ciaran McArdle (who is listed as an "accountant" on the B10 return filed with the CRO to record his appointment as director) and the auditors Kearney McArdle McEnaney & Company, so it can probably be assumed that no such connection exists simply because you can't be a director of a company and be the companies auditor at t6he same time, although a certain Hugh Hannigan gave this law a whole bnew meaning about five years ago. So basicly, after all that I haven't a clue who the GPA are, how much money they have, how much money they owe or how much money they want and what they want it for
Curiouser and curiouser BW. Thanks for that detailed analysis.
So the GPA in itself pays nothing, offers no annual accounts, and a couple of blokes running another business profit rather nicely from the takings of the GPA
I think that's it ?
I'm not out to 'get' the GPA or to even suggest that there is any wrongdoing whatsoever by any of the directors of the company, I am merely repeating information that is freely available.
Beiing entitled to my opinion as anyone else is, the point I make is that, especially today, it is hard to get sponsorship or grants. Even RTE themselves have a hard time getting sponsorship. If the GAA is successful at getting sponsorship and the various county boards are getting sponsorship they are probably getting it from sources that could be targetted by the GPA. However, if it becomes a situation reversed and the GPA get the only MAJOR sponsorship thats around and the tax man comes along with his recovery truck everyone, the GPA, the GAA and the players could end up with frig all. Now thats only my opinion and it may well be a crazy one but show me a limited company today that has 200,000 in profits and I will show you a tax bill.
Bud Wiser remind me never to introduce you to my ex wife ...
Interesting - the reason I'm most interested in it is the whole money making aspect - who pays for the magazine and the publicity stuff? Who pays Dessie? Who pays the boys for the drinks etc ...
Who and how much did they get from the Club Energise deal? Who set it up?
etc etc .... these are just some of the questions I'm interested in - and I'm not out to get the GPA either - it's just these are pretty interesting questions ...
Quote from: rrhf on July 01, 2009, 02:10:57 PM
A counter arguement....
Listen lads in the days of shares falling through the floor, an associate membershiup of the GPA could indeed be the investment we are looking for. Slow to pay out at first, if Dessie secures more sponsorships or indeed if we get Pay for play instead of the money going into the GAA kitty we can be part of the GPA "siphon" Now where do I sign up?
Maybe the GPA is a pyramid scheme!!!
certainly not square.
Donal Og is exempt from the media ban - see the hurling thread. ;)
good to everyone getting along...
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_abe0p86QmVA/RwwJGjzA0pI/AAAAAAAAAdE/s8XKpFBv5Tw/s400/consensus+hands.jpg)
That's a very interesting story you have uncovered, Bud Wiser. It would be interesting to know just what is the relationship between the Gaelic Players Management Company Ltd and the GPA.
Profits of €200k a year for the promoters (over and above the salaries they enjoy as well) do not sit well with the "breadline" arguments pushed by the GPA in recent weeks and may be news to some GPA members.
I looked up the CRO website and bought a copy of the accounts for €2.50. They are worth a read. I wonder what's the story behind the big VAT bills?
I would suggest that VAT is probably what is due on the members subs. VAT on some small companies is only payable every 4 months (it used to be every 2) The bulk of their subs might come in at the same time and thats just the liability they are providing for.
Quote from: cornafean on July 02, 2009, 04:46:20 PM
That's a very interesting story you have uncovered, Bud Wiser. It would be interesting to know just what is the relationship between the Gaelic Players Management Company Ltd and the GPA.
Profits of €200k a year for the promoters (over and above the salaries they enjoy as well) do not sit well with the "breadline" arguments pushed by the GPA in recent weeks and may be news to some GPA members.
I looked up the CRO website and bought a copy of the accounts for €2.50. They are worth a read. I wonder what's the story behind the big VAT bills?
Expect this in the Indo or the Star in the coming days.
Originally I was prepared to give the GPA and Dessie the benefit of the doubt but I'm becoming more and more sceptical about them.
Quote from: Bud Wiser on July 01, 2009, 07:08:45 PM
I'm not out to 'get' the GPA or to even suggest that there is any wrongdoing whatsoever by any of the directors of the company, I am merely repeating information that is freely available.
Beiing entitled to my opinion as anyone else is, the point I make is that, especially today, it is hard to get sponsorship or grants. Even RTE themselves have a hard time getting sponsorship. If the GAA is successful at getting sponsorship and the various county boards are getting sponsorship they are probably getting it from sources that could be targetted by the GPA. However, if it becomes a situation reversed and the GPA get the only MAJOR sponsorship thats around and the tax man comes along with his recovery truck everyone, the GPA, the GAA and the players could end up with frig all. Now thats only my opinion and it may well be a crazy one but show me a limited company today that has 200,000 in profits and I will show you a tax bill.
You sir, are a malcontent :D
(just getting in before the crowd)
Dessie has just been on RTE news there - he has eventually let the genie out of the bottle - bottom line is that he will accept a minimum of 5% or €3m. He says that worldwide, other sports get 5-15% so the GPA are at the bottom of the scale.
He says that the disruption to the GAA will continue - not giving interviews for the Munster final and the Leinster final is phase 1 in a "campaign". Phase 2 and 3 will involve different action.
So fair play to Dessie - he only wants €3m a year - so what about it ???
5% this year - 10% next year and so on and so on. Until they insist on the whole bloody lot.
You've lost me here- 5% of wat? GAA takings?...
Quote from: longrunsthefox on July 02, 2009, 11:46:13 PM
You've lost me here- 5% of wat? GAA takings?...
All commercial income - takings, TV rights, sponsorship.
3m Euro is nothing compared to what the cute hoor politicians pocket.
Dessie would need to break down exactly what the 3m is for.
£3m is only a starting point ffs
Quote from: orangeman on July 02, 2009, 11:34:47 PM
Dessie has just been on RTE news there - he has eventually let the genie out of the bottle - bottom line is that he will accept a minimum of 5% or €3m. He says that worldwide, other sports get 5-15% so the GPA are at the bottom of the scale.
He says that the disruption to the GAA will continue - not giving interviews for the Munster final and the Leinster final is phase 1 in a "campaign". Phase 2 and 3 will involve different action.
So fair play to Dessie - he only wants €3m a year - so what about it ???
Well it's not as if we werent warning about what would happen.
Watching Dessie paying out more and more rope to hang himself and the GPA is the best entertainment of the season so far.
And good man Bud for the investigative journalism. You'd wait a long time to see our GAA journalists produce something like that.
Sincerely,
Another malcontent.
would these other sports that 'take' a larger percentage be 'professional' sports by any chance?
actually the word 'chancer' springs to mind.
dessie and the free loader brigade sicken me.
this is not what the GAA is about and while welfare for injury/disability etc needs to be kept going- for county and club players
these leeches have to be procedualised/policy-ised out of the GAA .
they are a cancerous tumour on the butt-ocks of the association.
I think the GAA should 'recognise' the GPA, by offering to take them into the Association en-masse as the players welfare commmmmmiiiiittttteeeeeeeeeeeee. That way they would have a budget, allocated purely for Player Welfare issues such as insurance, injury funds, team holidays etc etc, but everything they spend would be easily traced and approved.
This lark of a separate players body, modelled on professional sports, demanding 5% of the GAA's funds to do what they wish with is bordering on lunacy.
I said at the start that the GPA filled a niche in making the GAA think about players, and for that they should be thanked. But now that it has improved so much, they need to be brought into the fold, not as a separate body, operating with it's own limited company in the shadows etc.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 02, 2009, 11:43:10 PM
5% this year - 10% next year and so on and so on. Until they insist on the whole bloody lot.
This seems to be the general theme of this thread. Can somebody present a cogent, rational argument as to why the GAA is right in not recognising the only representative body for players which currently exists? AZOffaly's idea has merit, although losing independance might throw up problems.
Now the GPA has many faults, but the view that the GAA is like some wealthy 'benevolent' victorian factory owner (who would have looked after his employees anyway, unions just sped the process up ::) ) is laughably off the mark.
Many posters here say, 'oh i'm for player welfare, but...' Player welfare was a joke before the gpa.
Quote from: scud on July 03, 2009, 09:31:24 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on July 02, 2009, 11:43:10 PM
5% this year - 10% next year and so on and so on. Until they insist on the whole bloody lot.
Can somebody present a cogent, rational argument as to why the GAA is right in not recognising the only representative body for players which currently exists?
In my opinion:
1. If you officially recognise them their demands will escalate year on year
2. I don't believe you should have a hierarchy of volunteer within the GPA - IC players are where they are due to a variety of reasons - they are the product of a lot of work from volunteers from their clubs - can the people who put up the nets, lined the pitches, coached them from nursery to adult, drove them to matches etc - all the while foregoing overtime, family time etc - are they going to benefit from the GPA's vision? Or will they be blackguarded as a 'rump of malcontents' if they express their opinion?
3. The GPA can work as a lobby group to ensure adequate player welfare for all players - the percentage of income if a pie in the sky idea
Dear Dessie, f**k off
Quote from: heffo on July 03, 2009, 09:43:59 AM
Quote from: scud on July 03, 2009, 09:31:24 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on July 02, 2009, 11:43:10 PM
5% this year - 10% next year and so on and so on. Until they insist on the whole bloody lot.
Can somebody present a cogent, rational argument as to why the GAA is right in not recognising the only representative body for players which currently exists?
In my opinion:
1. If you officially recognise them their demands will escalate year on year
2. I don't believe you should have a hierarchy of volunteer within the GPA - IC players are where they are due to a variety of reasons - they are the product of a lot of work from volunteers from their clubs - can the people who put up the nets, lined the pitches, coached them from nursery to adult, drove them to matches etc - all the while foregoing overtime, family time etc - are they going to benefit from the GPA's vision? Or will they be blackguarded as a 'rump of malcontents' if they express their opinion?
3. The GPA can work as a lobby group to ensure adequate player welfare for all players - the percentage of income if a pie in the sky idea
1. Ignoring a problem in my experience does not make it go away.
2. I agree there shouldn't be a hierarchy but it already exists. Clooney gets €500k apparently. I'd say every poster on here knows of a club that pays their manager. Payment of IC managers is the worst kept secret in the GAA.
3. Work as a lobby group that is not recognised by the body it is proposing to lobby?
Quote from: scud on July 03, 2009, 09:53:50 AM
Quote from: heffo on July 03, 2009, 09:43:59 AM
Quote from: scud on July 03, 2009, 09:31:24 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on July 02, 2009, 11:43:10 PM
5% this year - 10% next year and so on and so on. Until they insist on the whole bloody lot.
Can somebody present a cogent, rational argument as to why the GAA is right in not recognising the only representative body for players which currently exists?
In my opinion:
1. If you officially recognise them their demands will escalate year on year
2. I don't believe you should have a hierarchy of volunteer within the GPA - IC players are where they are due to a variety of reasons - they are the product of a lot of work from volunteers from their clubs - can the people who put up the nets, lined the pitches, coached them from nursery to adult, drove them to matches etc - all the while foregoing overtime, family time etc - are they going to benefit from the GPA's vision? Or will they be blackguarded as a 'rump of malcontents' if they express their opinion?
3. The GPA can work as a lobby group to ensure adequate player welfare for all players - the percentage of income if a pie in the sky idea
1. Ignoring a problem in my experience does not make it go away.
2. I agree there shouldn't be a hierarchy but it already exists. Clooney gets €500k apparently. I'd say every poster on here knows of a club that pays their manager. Payment of IC managers is the worst kept secret in the GAA.
3. Work as a lobby group that is not recognised by the body it is proposing to lobby?
Ignoring what problem? They've never been better looked after. 5% will only go up and up. Show me a wage agreeement anywhere on this planet that hasn't increased year on year taking out the current recession. They had a choice when they were kids of what sport they wanted to play. If they wanted to be a professional they should have picked one. No-one puts a gun to their head to play inter county. I know countless guys even at club level who had to restrict their playing days due to work/family/emirgration etc. Thats life.
Its a small indigenous sport played in a small country. What planet is Dessie on. Any little respect I had for the man is long gone.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 03, 2009, 10:02:32 AM
Quote from: scud on July 03, 2009, 09:53:50 AM
Quote from: heffo on July 03, 2009, 09:43:59 AM
Quote from: scud on July 03, 2009, 09:31:24 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on July 02, 2009, 11:43:10 PM
5% this year - 10% next year and so on and so on. Until they insist on the whole bloody lot.
Can somebody present a cogent, rational argument as to why the GAA is right in not recognising the only representative body for players which currently exists?
In my opinion:
1. If you officially recognise them their demands will escalate year on year
2. I don't believe you should have a hierarchy of volunteer within the GPA - IC players are where they are due to a variety of reasons - they are the product of a lot of work from volunteers from their clubs - can the people who put up the nets, lined the pitches, coached them from nursery to adult, drove them to matches etc - all the while foregoing overtime, family time etc - are they going to benefit from the GPA's vision? Or will they be blackguarded as a 'rump of malcontents' if they express their opinion?
3. The GPA can work as a lobby group to ensure adequate player welfare for all players - the percentage of income if a pie in the sky idea
1. Ignoring a problem in my experience does not make it go away.
2. I agree there shouldn't be a hierarchy but it already exists. Clooney gets €500k apparently. I'd say every poster on here knows of a club that pays their manager. Payment of IC managers is the worst kept secret in the GAA.
3. Work as a lobby group that is not recognised by the body it is proposing to lobby?
Ignoring what problem? They've never been better looked after. 5% will only go up and up. Show me a wage agreeement anywhere on this planet that hasn't increased year on year taking out the current recession. They had a choice when they were kids of what sport they wanted to play. If they wanted to be a professional they should have picked one. No-one puts a gun to their head to play inter county. I know countless guys even at club level who had to restrict their playing days due to work/family/emirgration etc. Thats life.
Its a small indigenous sport played in a small country. What planet is Dessie on. Any little respect I had for the man is long gone.
Ignoring the gpa is a major problem at the moment.
It is not a wage agreement. They are looking for money for player welfare from an organisation with a turnover of, i'm open to correction, €64m last year. Plus, anyone with any clue about negotiating doesn't propose the figure they want. Realistically if they got 1-2% it would be a miracle.
This small indigenous sport is able to pay its head honcho €500k and spend another €500k on fireworks. The GAA is no longer some country fair run by farmers, its is a slick, multi-national sporting organization sponsered by banks and international airlines
Can I just ask what people think of the idea of bringing the GPA formally into the GPA (as opposed to 'recognising' them as an outside body)? I wouldn't have a problem with that, and they could lobby from inside to improve the players' lot. Given that they are not for professionalism or pay for play, there should not be a huge idealogical obstacle. (I'm taking them at their word there). It makes all the sense in the world to me, all things being equal, to have a body in the GAA aggressively looking after the players (all players) interests, while at the same time adhering to the GAA's ethos.
Better to have them in the tent pissing out I'd say.
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 03, 2009, 10:58:54 AM
Can I just ask what people think of the idea of bringing the GPA formally into the GPA (as opposed to 'recognising' them as an outside body)? I wouldn't have a problem with that, and they could lobby from inside to improve the players' lot. Given that they are not for professionalism or pay for play, there should not be a huge idealogical obstacle. (I'm taking them at their word there). It makes all the sense in the world to me, all things being equal, to have a body in the GAA aggressively looking after the players (all players) interests, while at the same time adhering to the GAA's ethos.
Better to have them in the tent pissing out I'd say.
By all means, bring them in. Then and only then can they be made accountable. The idea of them running their own company charging players membership fees, negotiating sponsorship deals in competition to the main body of the GAA is lunacy.
I've said it for a long time now - Dessie wants to model himself and the GPA like Grath Crooks and the Professional Footballers Association. Dessie doesn't give two hoots about the Kildare hurlers. It's all about the elite and what they can get out of them in terms of commercial opportunities.
So that being the case, the GPA as it is now, will never allow themselves to be under the control / direction of Croke Park. They want to be out on a limb but financed by the GAA.
Great business if you can get it.
I think Dessie has bit off more than he can chew here but fair play to him for trying it.
Leaving aside our feelings on what Dessie, and the rest of the GPA, have as their real agenda, surely it makes sense for the GAA to offer to bring them onside. If they refuse the offer, then you'd have to get at least a little suspicious of their motives. I have my own concerns over what they are ultimately about, but they have publicly, at least, denied that. So you can either call them liars or test the waters with them. I'm not a believer that going down the adversarial route is a good use of time and resources unless you absolutely have to, so why not welcome the players body into the structures of the GAA. Make them a committee that is financed like any other, and make them responsible for dealing with player issues, top to bottom. Player Burnout, Player Health, Players Equipment, etc etc. Some initiatives will obviously be focussed more on county players, but at least if you make them responsible for all players, top to bottom, they will have a lobby group that makes a difference to ALL players.
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 03, 2009, 11:34:56 AM
Leaving aside our feelings on what Dessie, and the rest of the GPA, have as their real agenda, surely it makes sense for the GAA to offer to bring them onside. If they refuse the offer, then you'd have to get at least a little suspicious of their motives. I have my own concerns over what they are ultimately about, but they have publicly, at least, denied that. So you can either call them liars or test the waters with them. I'm not a believer that going down the adversarial route is a good use of time and resources unless you absolutely have to, so why not welcome the players body into the structures of the GAA. Make them a committee that is financed like any other, and make them responsible for dealing with player issues, top to bottom. Player Burnout, Player Health, Players Equipment, etc etc. Some initiatives will obviously be focussed more on county players, but at least if you make them responsible for all players, top to bottom, they will have a lobby group that makes a difference to ALL players.
This is all very well and well described by you as what you would like to see the GPA do within the GAA.
But the GPA don't want to be inside and under the control / direction of the GAA - they want to be around the table as a SEPARATE entity - representing the players who they want to be outside of the GAA when it comes to their commercial rights etc etc.
Have they been asked? If they have, and refused, then that's one thing. If we are just assuming they don't want in that's another.
Personally, if they were asked and refused, I'd like to see them answer why.
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 03, 2009, 11:50:23 AM
Have they been asked? If they have, and refused, then that's one thing. If we are just assuming they don't want in that's another.
Personally, if they were asked and refused, I'd like to see them answer why.
Do you seriously think that Dessie after asking for a minimum of 5% of all takings will go into the Croke Park committee room and say that the GPA are delighted that they are now formally recognised and that the GPA will work hand in hand with the GAA and that the GPA will hand over all monies from their separate sponsorship deals, commericial activities etc etc. to the GAA.
Don't think so.
The genie is now out of the bottle - it's going to be some crack trying to get it back into the bottle again.
I don't know if he would or not. It'd be some craic listening to the explanation though. If the GPA is all about player welfare, and the GAA offer to take them in for that purpose, then it'd be hard for the GPA to explain away their motives for refusing. It would certainly be a completely different vista. Their funds are supposed to go towards the advancement of Welfare issues.
Exactly AZ, the only way to deal with issues, differences of opinions or downright hostility is to talk it out. At the end of the day the GPA represent many IC players and they won't be going anywhere soon, this idea that we ignore them or tell them to basically f**k off is nonsense and will only lead to a more serious confrontation down the line.
The GPA should be brought into the GAA officially and allowed to look after player welfare, they will need some level of autonomy and money or else they'll be toothless but I see no problems there. In time their role can be expanded to cover club players as well but that shouldn't be used as a stick to beat them with now as it is an impossible task for any group at the moment.
The bottom line here is regardless of your view of the GPA they are representing an important faction of the GAA and the hostility from some quaters towards them is ill concieved and counter productive.
Quote--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Can I just ask what people think of the idea of bringing the GPA formally into the GPA (as opposed to 'recognising' them as an outside body)? I wouldn't have a problem with that, and they could lobby from inside to improve the players' lot. Given that they are not for professionalism or pay for play, there should not be a huge idealogical obstacle. (I'm taking them at their word there). It makes all the sense in the world to me, all things being equal, to have a body in the GAA aggressively looking after the players (all players) interests, while at the same time adhering to the GAA's ethos.
Now ye'r talking. That would be the job. What raised the stakes and alerted the GPA (again, in my opinion) that there was a harvest to be reaped was when the GAA announced in 2008 that they were going to get 8 Million Euro
(EIGHT MILLION) in a four way deal between four sponsors for football and hurling. The GPA are not looking for just a measly share of attendance funds, they are looking for 5% of money from, (a) attendances, (b) Main Sponsorship and (c) General sponsorship and players appearance (interviews) money. Now, do the sums on that and it ios a considerable amount of money and wheras the GPA have a Pension Scheme for their employees under which I am sure they contribute an odd lump sum I feel that yes, there is room for the GPA to be involved with the GAA but under the terms and conditions agreed by the GAA, not fiorced on them.
Another scenario would be for the GAA to have a seperate little piggy bank account in which 5% or One and a half Million a year was put into for players benefit. Instead of paying players as is the main obstacle, they could create a players rolling grant scheme payable on retirement. So say for example, Joe Bloggs gets selected on the county team and he is representing his county for five years on and off, doesn't matter if he is not picked for every game. The when he annoucnces his retirement from intercounty scene he, and all the other Joe Bloggs's that are hanging up the boots that year are called to a little function in Croke Park or by their own respective county boards and in return for their "out of pocket expenses" and by way of providing them with funds from a rolling grant that was available during their playing years they are given a nice acknowledgement of the time and effort they have given - by way of their now due grant funds. It would encourage the players to commit to the training regimes that we all take for granted. It would mean that every player got the same reward and based on football and hurling with panels of 25 it would work out around 1,000 per player if the last one year and five thousand if the play for five years. Ok, so Christy Ring would have made a fortune but a cap could be put on it if you excuse the pun.!
Quote from: Zulu on July 03, 2009, 12:05:24 PM
Exactly AZ, the only way to deal with issues, differences of opinions or downright hostility is to talk it out. At the end of the day the GPA represent many IC players and they won't be going anywhere soon, this idea that we ignore them or tell them to basically f**k off is nonsense and will only lead to a more serious confrontation down the line.
The GPA should be brought into the GAA officially and allowed to look after player welfare, they will need some level of autonomy and money or else they'll be toothless but I see no problems there. In time their role can be expanded to cover club players as well but that shouldn't be used as a stick to beat them with now as it is an impossible task for any group at the moment.
The bottom line here is regardless of your view of the GPA they are representing an important faction of the GAA and the hostility from some quaters towards them is ill concieved and counter productive.
How do you think the GPA see this autonomy ? Do you think they want to retain a separate company, separate bank accounts, separate offices away from Croke Park, separate staffing structure, separate sponsorship / commercial acvtivities etc ?
Do you think the money they will need should be based on a % of income ?
I agree that the continued shunning of the GPA by some members of the GAA in Croke Park is counter productive and will back fire eventually.
Quote from: Zulu on July 03, 2009, 12:05:24 PM
Exactly AZ, the only way to deal with issues, differences of opinions or downright hostility is to talk it out. At the end of the day the GPA represent many IC players and they won't be going anywhere soon, this idea that we ignore them or tell them to basically f**k off is nonsense and will only lead to a more serious confrontation down the line.
The GPA should be brought into the GAA officially and allowed to look after player welfare, they will need some level of autonomy and money or else they'll be toothless but I see no problems there. In time their role can be expanded to cover club players as well but that shouldn't be used as a stick to beat them with now as it is an impossible task for any group at the moment.
The bottom line here is regardless of your view of the GPA they are representing an important faction of the GAA and the hostility from some quaters towards them is ill concieved and counter productive.
They are not interested in club players- that I know for a fact.
Hostility towards a group that don't have the best interests of the association at heart. Only their own interests. Wake up - the country is in a recession.People are losing their jobs evrey day of the week- yet these guys think they should be getting paid in the midst of the worst recession the country has ever seen? Have you even looked at the outlay on these teams on an annual basis? 500k in a lot of cases. I think its an outrageous demand in the current climate. A lot of them get expenses paid as well.
If they want to play professional sport there is an avenue to do that.
No-one knows anything about them- because they don't reveal any information about themselves- its all cloak and daggers. Who's a member - who's not a member. Whats their mandate?
The other problem here is the P.R.O. handling of this whole affair by the GAA. Danny Lynch was the PRO but was old stock from an older era and while some thought he was good I thought he was out of his depth in later years and I am sorry to say that even though I often shared a pint with the man. However, the current P.R.O. is worse, far worse and should get out a bit more. Peter McKenna, Linda and Niamh McCoy and the rest of his staff do an excellent job but where is the voice of the P.R.O. ?? Expecting the Presidents, past or present to comment and allowing themselves to be drawn into a direct dogfight on Morning Ireland and such programs is wrong. The GPA are beating the GAA by about twenty five points in hurling parlance in terms of Press Releases and their effect.
The GAA should come out and say, with qualification that
1. They understand the situation the country is in at the moment and their demands for grant aid are being relaxed at this time as there are more of our citizens and services including hospitals deserving of financial assistance than lads playing hurling.
2. That in the proud tradition of the GAA, the GAA will continue to look after the players welfare with the introduction of a rolling grant scheme that will compensate them when they end their playing careers.
3. That the special purchase scheme they (GAA) have introduced (yesterday) for tickets ensures great value for money by giving everyone a chance to see these wonderful players in action and that by supporting the GAA you are also supporting the players rolling grant fund.
This is not the time for the GAA to sit sucking their thumbs in a corner and bleating about the GPA annoying them.
Quote from: Bud Wiser on July 03, 2009, 12:30:39 PM
However, the current P.R.O. is worse, far worse and should get out a bit more.
The role of P.R.O is gone - there is a Communications mgr who's out visiting clubs with Cooney a couple of days a week - maybe he's acting under instruction from Duffy/Cooney to say nothing..
Bud - I'm nominating you for the PRO / communications job ! ;)
I think it's time for the GAA to bite the bullet on this one. These guys don't deserve to get a penny directly from the GAA income. They are a special interest group representing a minuscule percentage of the GAA membership. The issue here is about paying these guys for play and the the amateur status of the game. Anyone who seriously thinks that giving the GPA 5% [to start with] of income will result in anything other than players turning professional is living in cloud cuckoo land. The slide towards this position on the GPA's part has been as inexorable as it has been obvious. Travel expenses to wet weather gear to re-hydration expenses to grants......
It is clear where this is going and anyone who says differently is stupid, self interested or in denial. I think this will be the ruination of the GAA.
Quite frankly it is as logical to say that intercounty referees could form a Referees Assoc and demand a similar percentage of the turnover.
I wish someone in the GAA would have the balls to stand up and tell Dessie Farrell and his fellow travellers to f**k off, if you don't want to continue to play our games on an amateur basis f**k off and pick a sport that will pay you.
Shocked..... anyone?
I want that 5% for the clubs that nurture these brats.
Quotethink it's time for the GAA to bite the bullet on this one. These guys don't deserve to get a penny directly from the GAA income. They are a special interest group representing a minuscule percentage of the GAA membership. The issue here is about paying these guys for play and the the amateur status of the game. Anyone who seriously thinks that giving the GPA 5% [to start with] of income will result in anything other than players turning professional is living in cloud cuckoo land.
I'm afraid it is you who is in cuckoo land and that type of doomsday prediction is exactly what this debate doesn't need. We can only go pro when you, I and thousands of other ordinary GAA members vote to do so, it can't be forced through by anyone.
QuoteHow do you think the GPA see this autonomy ? Do you think they want to retain a separate company, separate bank accounts, separate offices away from Croke Park, separate staffing structure, separate sponsorship / commercial acvtivities etc ?
Do you think the money they will need should be based on a % of income ?
I don't know is the honest answer but this is what dialogue can unearth and from that real progress can be made.
QuoteThey are not interested in club players- that I know for a fact.
Nor should they be but if they are brought in and given responsibility for them as well as IC players that should change.
QuoteHostility towards a group that don't have the best interests of the association at heart. Only their own interests.
Only your opinion Indiana and while I don't agree with some of what they are looking for the best way to resolve this in the best interests of everyone is to discuss it. If they are the scource of all evil that some would have you believe then it will come out. Half of you complain that you don't know what the GPA really want and your solution is to tell them f**k off rather than talk with them and see.
For the fence sitters its time for hostility, for the average GAA fan its time to call a spade a spade, I commend the honesty of the GPA for the first time in their history they have laid their cards out and today the average GAA man is feigning shock. Well doing business with Des is a bit like the smoking 100 a day and acting shocked when the doctor telss you you have emphsema. We knew this was coming. Why should the GAA give 5% of anything to another mans company and why should they even wish to do business with the self appointed players agent.
I think Des stands accused today of murdering the GPA and unitng the GAA against them. The small group of players can fcuk off.
Excellent detective work Bud. I haven't seen the accounts but would have the following comments:
Quote from: Bud Wiser on July 01, 2009, 06:21:16 PM
There are only two shareholders in the Gaelic Players Management Company. Donal O'Neill and a guy called David Burke own 75% and 25% of the shareholding respectively.
I thought O'Neill had left the GAA.
Burke is a lawyer and used to play with Waterford (footballers I think). He's been involved with the GPA for at least 5 or 6 years.
QuoteHow can another company apply for a Government Grant if they owe VAT, or better still, how did they get previous grants at a time when they appeared to owe vat?
The company paid Corporation Tax of €21,209. This would indicate that the company made profits of €169,672 in 2007, again a tidy sum (after directors salaries etc) to be shared among two individuals.
The accounts record the company as owing €78,590 to the Revenue as at 31 December 2007 and €52,973 as at 31 December 2006. So was this owed when they got original funding? This would normally appear to indicate an ongoing problem with VAT arrears and/or cashflow
The company had "cash in bank and at hand" of €121,125 as at 31 December 2007, which is very curious given the existence of the large VAT liability as at that date. The "cash in bank and at hand" as at 31 December 2006 was €247,626.
The tax figures are in no way unusual. The amount of €78k owing could include the 21k corporation tax and will include 3 months worth of PAYE/PRSI and at least 2 months of VAT. There is nothing to indicate the company does not pay its tax liabilities as they fall due. The company clearly has the cash, but to pay Revenue before it was due would be silly.
In my view the extracts you have shown would indicate the company does NOT have any tax issues and would qualify for a tax clearance certificate.
Not sure why the company is making profits. You would think that if they allocated the profits to player welfare activities they could have avoided the 20k tax. There are no dividends being paid out, so the net profits have been reinvested. I presume O'Neill and Burke are nominees rather than the actual owners of the company and therefore would never receive dividends?
QuoteCiaran McArdle was appointed as director on 1 October 2008. There is no mention either of any connection between Ciaran McArdle (who is listed as an "accountant" on the B10 return filed with the CRO to record his appointment as director) and the auditors Kearney McArdle McEnaney & Company, so it can probably be assumed that no such connection exists simply because you can't be a director of a company and be the companies auditor at the same time
McArdle has been an accountant with the GPA for a number of years. Dunno if he has any connection with Kearney McArdle McEnaney.
QuoteI'm afraid it is you who is in cuckoo land and that type of doomsday prediction is exactly what this debate doesn't need. We can only go pro when you, I and thousands of other ordinary GAA members vote to do so, it can't be forced through by anyone.
Zulu, you must come across a fair few cuckoos on a daily basis if you don't think the GPA's intention was NOT to turn the Association, through their members and their members activities into a pro sport where players would be paid. Click on the link and tell me one of the first seminars they organized was aimed at the old Mick Mackey type hurler with the peaked cap or the Beckham type?
http://www.chass.co.uk/old_site_2005_11_18/DUBLIN_SEMINAR.pdf (http://www.chass.co.uk/old_site_2005_11_18/DUBLIN_SEMINAR.pdf)
It a big leap to make from sayin 'heres how to make a few quid if you're asked to do corporate sponsorship type gigs' to - heres how we're gonna make you professional athletes.
If the GPA thought the idea of professionalism would fly surely they would have chanced their arm by now? It won't and I'd bet the majority of players wouldn't support it either
I like the way he didnt demand for gate receipts - all very well thought out, in the hope that apathy remains at grass roots level to their cause.
Quote from: rrhf on July 03, 2009, 03:20:05 PM
I like the way he didnt demand for gate receipts - all very well thought out, in the hope that apathy remains at grass roots level to their cause.
I thought he was looking 5% of EVERYTHING ?.
Im now looking forward to listening to Today FM on the way home. Dessie will have bother getting out of this one
Quote from: Bensars on July 03, 2009, 03:27:14 PM
Im now looking forward to listening to Today FM on the way home. Dessie will have bother getting out of this one
Not in his own mind - he'll be telling us all how the GAA are getting good value for money and how much they've saved so far.
Quote from: orangeman on July 03, 2009, 03:21:00 PM
Quote from: rrhf on July 03, 2009, 03:20:05 PM
I like the way he didnt demand for gate receipts - all very well thought out, in the hope that apathy remains at grass roots level to their cause.
I thought he was looking 5% of EVERYTHING ?.
According to the IN all commercial income is targetted 'this includes gate receipts, TV rights and sponsorship deals' [quote marks are for the IN] and the GPA want 5% of the gross.
Zulu, do you agree that they should get 5%? What do you think they are gonna use it for?
Quote from: Keyser soze on July 03, 2009, 03:43:03 PM
Quote from: orangeman on July 03, 2009, 03:21:00 PM
Quote from: rrhf on July 03, 2009, 03:20:05 PM
I like the way he didnt demand for gate receipts - all very well thought out, in the hope that apathy remains at grass roots level to their cause.
I thought he was looking 5% of EVERYTHING ?.
According to the IN all commercial income is targetted 'this includes gate receipts, TV rights and sponsorship deals' [quote marks are for the IN] and the GPA want 5% of the gross.
Zulu, do you agree that they should get 5%? What do you think they are gonna use it for?
5% of the gross is how much of the net profits ? - 20%, 30%,40% ????
why not just get rid of farrell the man is such a media bi**h
QuoteZulu, you must come across a fair few cuckoos on a daily basis if you don't think the GPA's intention was NOT to turn the Association, through their members and their members activities into a pro sport where players would be paid.
I'll refer you to my previous post Bud, - "We can only go pro when you, I and thousands of other ordinary GAA members vote to do so, it can't be forced through by anyone."
This fact renders all talk of professionalism little more than scaremongering IMO.
QuoteZulu, do you agree that they should get 5%? What do you think they are gonna use it for?
I don't necessarily agree that they should get that but I do think we should be sitting down and talking with them and as AZ said let them put their proposals on the table and explain what they want, why they want it and how they see the future developing. Then we can decide on an appropriate response, at first glance I don't have any problem with the GAA partly funding the GPA but I don't think I would be in favour of it until they are brought into tehfold a bit more. But the main point here is that much of what we are saying here is idle internet specualtion with the odd few lads seemingly under the impression that they know exactly what others think.
If the GPA are clearing profits of €200k per annum, then it is they who should be partly funding the GAA and not vice versa.
It's all very well saying the GAA and the GPA should talk. But we know what the GPA want - official recognition. And unless the GAA went into any discussions with a mandate to discuss the brass tacks of such recognition, talks would just consist of the GPA repeating what they've already said in press releases.
Well i don't see why any self appointed group has any more right to get recognition than any other group e.g the oft quoted grasscutters, net-putter-uppers etc.
These boys need to be told to get to f**k with their recognition demands, if they don't want to attend sponsors events etc don't go, you can be certain sure they're not doing it for nothing! Nobody is forced to play the games, if it's going to affect your family/work/health etc so much that it is having a hugely negative impact on your life, give it up and take up darts or some other less demanding sport.
The GAA has given these guys far too much airtime already, far from recognising them or incorporationg them into the wider GAA family i feel it is time for the GAA to make membership of a competitor body incompatible with being eligible with playing football/hurling.
I'm truly sick listening to that gimp Farrell and w**kers like Cusack continuallly criticising the GAA. These guys do not give one f**k about what's good for the GAA. Really SMS. >:(
Unless the GAA took the initiative deiseach, and said 'We recognise that you represent the interests of the county players. Instead of merely recognising you, we would like you to come into the GAA fold officially, and look after all Player Welfare issues'. It would be an interesting proposition, and could be the ideal outcome. The players feel they are represented - by players, while the GAA gets to work within their own structures in terms of allocating funding etc, rather than a separate body, answerable to nobody apart from themselves.
There was much talk of the GPA nearly being recognised formally just as Nicky's tenure was comimg to a close - why is it as far away as ever now ??
The % ???
QuoteWell i don't see why any self appointed group has any more right to get recognition than any other group
Player welfare is a real issue and the GAA neglected it for far too long so the GPA is only doing what the GAA should have done previously. For my money short of going pro there is little I would begrudge players, so education and employment initiatives are fine by me. It's funny but when the GPA are pushing for these things and the funding to pursue them some lads want them to go jump but when Ricky Nixon is looking for players to go to Aus the same lads are asking what we can do to keep these lads here and wondering should we be giving them jobs or scholarships into university.
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 03, 2009, 05:25:02 PM
Unless the GAA took the initiative deiseach, and said 'We recognise that you represent the interests of the county players. Instead of merely recognising you, we would like you to come into the GAA fold officially, and look after all Player Welfare issues'. It would be an interesting proposition, and could be the ideal outcome. The players feel they are represented - by players, while the GAA gets to work within their own structures in terms of allocating funding etc, rather than a separate body, answerable to nobody apart from themselves.
Maybe. But how would the GPA fit in to the fold? There would be situations where the GPA membership have an influence over GAA decisions - they're all members of the GAA, after all - while the GPA would have scope to make decisions that affect all members but over which the non-GPA member of the GAA has no power. Nothing is cast in stone, but I don't see how the GPA can be folded in to the GAA given the way the association is currently set up
Quote from: Zulu on July 03, 2009, 05:34:19 PM
QuoteWell i don't see why any self appointed group has any more right to get recognition than any other group
Player welfare is a real issue and the GAA neglected it for far too long so the GPA is only doing what the GAA should have done previously. For my money short of going pro there is little I would begrudge players, so education and employment initiatives are fine by me. It's funny but when the GPA are pushing for these things and the funding to pursue them some lads want them to go jump but when Ricky Nixon is looking for players to go to Aus the same lads are asking what we can do to keep these lads here and wondering should we be giving them jobs or scholarships into university.
Hardly the same thing now.
Wouldn't disagree Zulu that player welfare was neglected in the past especially in terms of travel and medical expenses and compensation for missing work or being disabled as a result of an injury. The GPA were instrumental in addressing some of these issues for an elite group of players.
However these are issues for ALL Gaa players, the GPA represent only a tiny minority of these players, an ordinary club player who misses work as a result of a Gaa injury is equally entitled to get compensation for this as a county player in my view. If the GAA set up a welfare scheme it should apply to all GAA members not just the elite. If 5% of GAA revenue was set aside for ALL player welfare under the auspices of the GAA i would have no issue with this at all.
I appreciate that county players by and large put in [slightly] more time and effort than the average club player and they probably incur more expenses - food travel etc - but they do so voluntarily. Many of these players have acheived career enhancements as a result of their playing profile. No-one has to spend time fulfilling commercial engagements for sponsors at the behest of the GAA. If you listen to Farrell you would think people are forced to give up their working day by the Co Board to give media interviews or be pictured at sponsors events, and that they weren't getting recompense for it!! FFS they do so because they are getting paid to do it, otherwise you can bet your bottom dollar that there would be more than just the embargo on the LFC and MHC finals. Dessie knows he wouldn't be able to hold the line on this one because the lads would be missing out on too many brown envelopes.
Quote from: Keyser soze on July 03, 2009, 06:08:06 PM
I appreciate that county players by and large put in [slightly] more time and effort than the average club player and they probably incur more expenses - food travel etc - but they do so voluntarily. Many of these players have acheived career enhancements as a result of their playing profile. No-one has to spend time fulfilling commercial engagements for sponsors at the behest of the GAA. If you listen to Farrell you would think people are forced to give up their working day by the Co Board to give media interviews or be pictured at sponsors events, and that they weren't getting recompense for it!! FFS they do so because they are getting paid to do it, otherwise you can bet your bottom dollar that there would be more than just the embargo on the LFC and MHC finals. Dessie knows he wouldn't be able to hold the line on this one because the lads would be missing out on too many brown envelopes.
More time that the AVERAGE club player maybe Keyser I'd agree, but I could guarentee that there are many more club players (than county players) putting in equal if not more time/effort and incurring much more expense to do so - and again they do it voluntarily. These boys don't need someone to fight for their rights. They've made their choice & know full well what they are doing. No one thinking about "whats in it for me" at club level. If lifes circumstances mean that it gets too busy to commit to those levels then so be it. Thats the GAA we all want.
Why do the GPA not see it that way? Simple answer is greed. They think they are owned more than the rest of us which is an utterly contemptable perpsective considering the important roles we all play to make the GAA tick. Values & Ethics anyone?
I think the facts that Bud uncovered speak for themselves. The GPA (or the company behind them) are in it for themselves.
Today, Dessie was just being more honest with us than he has been before :o
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on July 03, 2009, 07:03:16 PM
The GPA (or the company behind them) are in it for themselves.
In fairness, I don't think the GPA have ever said otherwise. Wouldn't be much of a union if it didn't look out for it's members
Quote from: deiseach on July 03, 2009, 07:18:31 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on July 03, 2009, 07:03:16 PM
The GPA (or the company behind them) are in it for themselves.
In fairness, I don't think the GPA have ever said otherwise. Wouldn't be much of a union if it didn't look out for it's members
To be fair, I don't think they really give a ballix about their members, I think they just see € signs
Quote from: deiseach on July 03, 2009, 07:18:31 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on July 03, 2009, 07:03:16 PM
The GPA (or the company behind them) are in it for themselves.
In fairness, I don't think the GPA have ever said otherwise. Wouldn't be much of a union if it didn't look out for it's members
If the GPA cared a whit about their members they would not have set up their company as a privately-owned company, with only 2 shareholders legally entitled to share in profits.
Imagine the scandal that would ensue if the leaders of any trade union like SIPTU, NBRU etc set up a privately-owned limited company and in a single year generated €200k in profits among themselves on the back of union activities, all the time while using the union HQ as the company's registered office. :o
Quote from: cornafean on July 03, 2009, 07:41:27 PM
Quote from: deiseach on July 03, 2009, 07:18:31 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on July 03, 2009, 07:03:16 PM
The GPA (or the company behind them) are in it for themselves.
In fairness, I don't think the GPA have ever said otherwise. Wouldn't be much of a union if it didn't look out for it's members
If the GPA cared a whit about their members they would not have set up their company as a privately-owned company, with only 2 shareholders legally entitled to share in profits.
Imagine the scandal that would ensue if the leaders of any trade union like SIPTU, NBRU etc set up a privately-owned limited company and in a single year generated €200k in profits among themselves on the back of union activities, all the time while using the union HQ as the company's registered office. :o
Exactly.
Though I have to say here, there are none so blind as those who will not see.
Quote from: deiseach on July 03, 2009, 05:43:56 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 03, 2009, 05:25:02 PM
Unless the GAA took the initiative deiseach, and said 'We recognise that you represent the interests of the county players. Instead of merely recognising you, we would like you to come into the GAA fold officially, and look after all Player Welfare issues'. It would be an interesting proposition, and could be the ideal outcome. The players feel they are represented - by players, while the GAA gets to work within their own structures in terms of allocating funding etc, rather than a separate body, answerable to nobody apart from themselves.
Maybe. But how would the GPA fit in to the fold? There would be situations where the GPA membership have an influence over GAA decisions - they're all members of the GAA, after all - while the GPA would have scope to make decisions that affect all members but over which the non-GPA member of the GAA has no power. Nothing is cast in stone, but I don't see how the GPA can be folded in to the GAA given the way the association is currently set up
Interesting idea, AZ, but I think Deiseach is right. I don't think it's tenable to have an autonomous group within the GAA, selected on a different basis to every other unit and all other officers of the association, operating to a different set of rules and representing the interests of a vociferous faction of the membership whose raison d'etre is to divert zero-sum resources from the main organisation for their own gain.
I take the point of Bud and others that the GAA seems to be getting a mauling in the PR competition, but I prefer to see it as the GAA allowing the GPA to strangle itself in public with its own umbilical cord of greed and incompetence. 5% of the association's income! The day they uttered this ludicrous demand was the day they lost the rank and file.
By the way, where did this stuff come from about Cooney getting 500K?
" Look, you can do this the easy way or the hard way !" Dessie Farrell.
"Lost the rank and file" don't think this is a concern for the GPA. A prominent GPA member was telling anyone who would listen yesterday that this will move towards a strike very quickly. These clowns haven't the brains to keep their big mouths shut, their arrogance is breathtaking.
My fear is that those spineless shower of c**ts in Croker will roll over to these guys.
They are a poisin in the GAA but have to agree with Keyser, the bosses will capitulate vey quickly as they did before the last strike threat. That was the time to sand firm and they let us down very badly. There is a very sad inevitability about all this and few people like Mark Conway and Donal McAnnallen who stood firm throughout are now being vindicated. Thank God for club GAA.
maybe it was said earlier, I have not read all the comments yet but when we talk of emigration and the loss of players- Is it not GAA clubs and GAA supporters that provide those players with jobs in these countries? We may lose them from our club and county but we do not lose them from the GAA and why do the GPA not acknowledge the part the exiles play in support of our own players. I suppose it is much easier to sit by the fire and moan than get up of your ass and do something.
Why, if so many county players are unemployed are they not down at their club during the summer months helping in the coaching and development of the future stars? Why do the GPA not encourage this?
There is lots of bleating from the GPA and unfortunalely there is nothing coming in response from the GAA. They have a new PR person formerly of HSE (I have just learned) and I should not be surprised that there is nothing coming out of CP. Old habits die hard - the thinking in the HSE is to say nothing and it will go away and the same thinking is being brought to the GAA. We want our hierarchy to stand up and be counted and not be chicken livered.
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on July 03, 2009, 08:29:28 PM
Quote from: cornafean on July 03, 2009, 07:41:27 PM
Quote from: deiseach on July 03, 2009, 07:18:31 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on July 03, 2009, 07:03:16 PM
The GPA (or the company behind them) are in it for themselves.
In fairness, I don't think the GPA have ever said otherwise. Wouldn't be much of a union if it didn't look out for it's members
If the GPA cared a whit about their members they would not have set up their company as a privately-owned company, with only 2 shareholders legally entitled to share in profits.
Imagine the scandal that would ensue if the leaders of any trade union like SIPTU, NBRU etc set up a privately-owned limited company and in a single year generated €200k in profits among themselves on the back of union activities, all the time while using the union HQ as the company's registered office. :o
Exactly.
Though I have to say here, there are none so blind as those who will not see.
And as far as I know Donal O'Neill is not even living in the country anymore - I think he is abroad in Europe - perhaps because of tax reasons ....
Best thing is to have the debate - let the GAA meet the GPA - Have the discussions made public of necessary - keep us all informed as to what the demands of the GPA are -
Then let us vote on it.
If the GPA win the vote fine - no problem -
If not then move on.
Its an awful shame this media ban doesn't cover Dessie Farrell as well.
I agree with Hardy. By the day the GPA's demands or positions are looking more and more ridiculous. People like myself that opposed them from the off are hearing comments like "you know what - you were right about the GPA after all". They are hanging themselves. It was only a matter of time.
Quote from: magpie seanie on July 04, 2009, 11:34:13 AM
Its an awful shame this media ban doesn't cover Dessie Farrell as well.
I agree with Hardy. By the day the GPA's demands or positions are looking more and more ridiculous. People like myself that opposed them from the off are hearing comments like "you know what - you were right about the GPA after all". They are hanging themselves. It was only a matter of time.
On that point seanie
It's just dawned on me why IMO they announced a media ban just a few days before this latest demand (which they used the media to convey)
This is the autocratic leaders wanting to control the information flow on this debate through them just in case players might be asked to comment over the coming weeks on the topic. Jesus they really must be a herd of sheep these intercounty players. Has no one their own voice or do they like the fact that someone else (i.e Dessie) is doing the dirty work for them so that they remain blameless and honorable men?
I can't believe their arrogance to come out and say - our price is 5% ... what right have they to ask for anything - and also what does it say about them if they suggest they have a price.
It was always, is always and will always be about money for the boys.
I was reading last night that when asked if the GPA could administer the scheme within the present GAA structures Dessie replied - no way - sure they have enough to be getting on with themselves - they wouldn't have time to do this player welfare stuff etc etc.
;) ;)
Does he think we're all stupid ?
Quote from: orangeman on July 04, 2009, 12:36:03 PM
I was reading last night that when asked if the GPA could administer the scheme within the present GAA structures Dessie replied - no way - sure they have enough to be getting on with themselves - they wouldn't have time to do this player welfare stuff etc etc.
;) ;)
Does he think we're all stupid ?
Yes! And he hasn't been far wrong regarding a large self-interested vocal minority to date . :(
Time for the GAA to call their bluff and mobilise the silent majority to irradiate this cancer once and for all.
...I am wondering what qualifications mr farrell and co have regarding the setting up and running of a 'business' that they demand that the GAA put their faith in them.
imo farrell and co and their gpa are an unknown , untried and untested 'company' that also have no previous experience of what they are talking about - player welfare, insurance, benefit schemes etc
If 5% is a figure that the gpa have identified as what is required to fund these player funds (insurance, disabillity, hardship, inj etc etc) - though you would have to ask what their metric/selection/breakdown was in coming up with this 5% figure- then the GAA should set aside this 5% and use their tried and tested organisational structure to implement these funds and the administration of which this needs in conjunction with it.
no offence gpa, but we cannot trust a new untried untested unqualified (if not also somewhat uneducated - whether that is academically or in business) group of guys that change their mantra every 6 months
GPA have given some good ideas, the ideas that were kicking around in the GAA for a few years but in true Irish fashion, just hadnt been taken up until the gpa did make a big fuss of them and now the GAA not the gpa needs to implement and run these for the benefit of the players.
as for the pay for play - well unless we can economically sustain payment of ALL personnel on intercounty football and hurling panels , this is an elitist non runner at best !
Quote from: OverThePostsAWide on July 04, 2009, 12:50:41 PM
Quote from: orangeman on July 04, 2009, 12:36:03 PM
I was reading last night that when asked if the GPA could administer the scheme within the present GAA structures Dessie replied - no way - sure they have enough to be getting on with themselves - they wouldn't have time to do this player welfare stuff etc etc.
;) ;)
Does he think we're all stupid ?
Yes! And he hasn't been far wrong regarding a large self-interested vocal minority to date . :(
Time for the GAA to call their bluff and mobilise the silent majority to irradiate this cancer once and for all.
Agree with you. Let's have it then.
LB i think you're missing the point here, it doesn't matter if Bill Gates and John Paul Getty Jr were running the GPA, they don't deserve to get any money from the GAA.
Quite frankly the way i want the GAA to deal with this is, in the event of a strike being threatened, to implement a on ban on GPA members participating in our games. The GPA wouldn't last a week. No talking, no negotiating, no recognition. Get thon gimp back into nursing.
Dessie wasn't as concerned about his team mates as he is for all the other players - a man that on the morning of an important game for his county, that 30 othermen had spent 6 months training for, would go out and play a game of hockey!! Selfish w**ker.
I hope Cooney takes a hard line on this, them other ballbags in CP have made a complete ballacks of this so far.
It has to be asked why do a group of players feel that above everyone else in the GAA they should be entitled to some financial reward. Who was the first person to come up with the idea that is now the GPA. Was no one else or no other area of the GAA considered in this person's mind for financial reward or worthy of financial reward. This person probably went through a club - not unlike my own club - from underage to senior and benefitted from people who have given a lifetime of sevice to that club and indeed maybe been out of pocket doing so. The same has taken place in all clubs through different generations. We have all heard stories of how clubs were held together or wouldn't be where they are today if it hadn't been for different people down through the years.
Of course everyone knows that some people, players and managers though by no means them all, do get finances paid to them in one way or another and this has been going on for years. Also at a guess most ordinary club members probably don't know where exactly the GAA's revenue goes and that there can be a lot of cloak and dagger stuff when it comes to the financial issue. But if anything this points to a need for greater transparancy at all levels within the GAA so that we can all see where the monies we all raise, not just the players who get to Croke Park, go to and how they're spent.
Of course as Dessie Farrell once said, the GPA are responsible for their own members but let's call a spade a spade and at least be up front about it - the GPA and all the players involved in it are looking after themselves. There are plenty of people in the GAA who make more and greater sacrifices than the inter-county players and when they ask for money from the association at whatever level they ask not for themselves but for equipment and facilities for kids, for another few hurls or a couple of footballs. Yeah, some of them - but probably very few - get their perks and why shouldn't they enjoy them. Just as inter-county footballers get their perks. Some time ago a member of my club contacted a county player and past All-Ireland winner about the chance of travelling to our club to do a bit of work with our kids. This player was/is a member of the GPA. The first point up for discussion was the set fee that he as a member of the GPA would charge. For totally different reasons it didn't materialise but it's an indication of the future to come. Where will all this take us to. And what has the GPA to offer the other thousands of playing and non playing members. Oh, that's right they're only looking out for themselves, or sorry, that should be "The GPA's responsibility is to our members", Dessie Farrell.
Quote from: Keyser soze on July 04, 2009, 02:07:36 PM
LB i think you're missing the point here, it doesn't matter if Bill Gates and John Paul Getty Jr were running the GPA, they don't deserve to get any money from the GAA.
Quite frankly the way i want the GAA to deal with this is, in the event of a strike being threatened, to implement a on ban on GPA members participating in our games. The GPA wouldn't last a week. No talking, no negotiating, no recognition. Get thon gimp back into nursing.
Dessie wasn't as concerned about his team mates as he is for all the other players - a man that on the morning of an important game for his county, that 30 othermen had spent 6 months training for, would go out and play a game of hockey!! Selfish w**ker.
I hope Cooney takes a hard line on this, them other ballbags in CP have made a complete ballacks of this so far.
I could well be missing loads of points but that was purely to initially state that farrell and co are unqualified to head up any player welfare body, plus the business and financial implications associated with this.
the next point was addressing what the gpa 'say' the money os for - player welfare/inj/benefit - as well as the 'expenses' the elite are seeking to get.
I think that if the GAA tackle the gpa's lack of experience and ability to manage such an important and financial (esp in light of recent embezzlement and misappropriation of finances in the past few years by various 'bodies'/people) then there would be a desire for this to be ran by and from within the GAA.
I wouldnt ban the gpa, but I'd have its usefulness destroyed by the above, and by selecting team after team until its maybe carlow juniors playing cavan junior d's in the all Ireland final.
We'd lose the spectacle of top players for a year, but after that the players will see they are being hoodwinked and return without cost.
it will be like the american football lockout in 1987 I think it was when teams recruited semi pro and ex college 'replacement' players for the first half of the seaon.
we can not sustain pay for play or large 'expense ' handouts to 'elite' players - the grass roots coaching of kids and clubs development building programs would suffer.
thats not what we want or need as an organisation !
goodbye gpa !
Quote from: dowling on July 04, 2009, 02:52:31 PM
Who was the first person to come up with the idea that is now the GPA. Was no one else or no other area of the GAA considered in this person's mind for financial reward or worthy of financial reward.
Fergal P McCusker, the former Derry star, is credited as the man who originally coined the name "Gaelic Players Association". He has since renounced his membership of the GPA in protest against its agenda under the leadership of Dessie Farrell. Others whom were instrumental in the formation of the GPA have since been numbered amongst its strongest critics, including Joe Brolly.
Quote from: cornafean on July 04, 2009, 03:48:51 PM
Quote from: dowling on July 04, 2009, 02:52:31 PM
Who was the first person to come up with the idea that is now the GPA. Was no one else or no other area of the GAA considered in this person's mind for financial reward or worthy of financial reward.
Fergal P McCusker, the former Derry star, is credited as the man who originally coined the name "Gaelic Players Association". He has since renounced his membership of the GPA in protest against its agenda under the leadership of Dessie Farrell. Others whom were instrumental in the formation of the GPA have since been numbered amongst its strongest critics, including Joe Brolly.
Thats' the first I ever heard of Brolly having anything to do with the origins of the GPA
Brolly initially thought it was a good idea. Similar to McCusker he is now one of their most ardent critics.
Quote from: JMohan on July 04, 2009, 11:47:18 PM
Quote from: cornafean on July 04, 2009, 03:48:51 PM
Quote from: dowling on July 04, 2009, 02:52:31 PM
Who was the first person to come up with the idea that is now the GPA. Was no one else or no other area of the GAA considered in this person's mind for financial reward or worthy of financial reward.
Fergal P McCusker, the former Derry star, is credited as the man who originally coined the name "Gaelic Players Association". He has since renounced his membership of the GPA in protest against its agenda under the leadership of Dessie Farrell. Others whom were instrumental in the formation of the GPA have since been numbered amongst its strongest critics, including Joe Brolly.
Thats' the first I ever heard of Brolly having anything to do with the origins of the GPA
Brolly was there at the start ok. Now rejects what they're at.
Brolly has always been an advocate of player rights. But had a big falling out, and now has totally reversed his views. His criticisims are purely personal.
The one thing that is hard to argue against is the payment of managers. Club managers and county managers DO get paid. It's going to be difficult to get round that one - this is one of the GPA's biggest argument and one that the GAA tend to ignore.
On match days, every body bar the players get paid.
Don't get me wrong - I don't want to see the players getting paid - But how do we support paying for example, stewards / security guards €100 ( not sure of the figures here ) for a few hours work and the players get a small grant ???
I know you're going to say that it is their job but time was, volunteer stewards who were happy to do the job for nothing, went to Croke Park and all the other stadia on match days and all they got for it was a sandwich and a match programme.
Quote from: orangeman on July 05, 2009, 01:12:01 PM
Quote from: JMohan on July 04, 2009, 11:47:18 PM
Quote from: cornafean on July 04, 2009, 03:48:51 PM
Quote from: dowling on July 04, 2009, 02:52:31 PM
Who was the first person to come up with the idea that is now the GPA. Was no one else or no other area of the GAA considered in this person's mind for financial reward or worthy of financial reward.
Fergal P McCusker, the former Derry star, is credited as the man who originally coined the name "Gaelic Players Association". He has since renounced his membership of the GPA in protest against its agenda under the leadership of Dessie Farrell. Others whom were instrumental in the formation of the GPA have since been numbered amongst its strongest critics, including Joe Brolly.
Thats' the first I ever heard of Brolly having anything to do with the origins of the GPA
Brolly was there at the start ok. Now rejects what they're at.
I'm not doubting it - it's just I never heard of him there at the start or don't remember him there
Interesting article by Liam Hayes - thought provoking.
The Great Puzzling Anomaly
The GPA can have their five per cent as soon as we know their numbers, aims, membership rules, checks and balances, voting procedures...
Liam Hayes football analyst
Questions remain: the GPA, headed by Donal Óg Cusack and Dessie Farrell, is a group of well-meaning players and former players but I do not have any clear proof of any mandate they carry for all of the footballers and hurlers, county and club, in the country inpho/lorraine o'sullivanThis morning I'm president of the Gaelic Athletic Association. I'm sorry if this comes as a shock to you all but, it's true, it's me! And, as you know, as a manager's man and as a player's man I'm going to make a lot of fast changes around here. All county managers are going to be offered full-time and part-time contracts. All footballers and hurlers are going to get bags and bags of kit, pallets of energy drinks, double the individual allowances for an agreed set of expenses during the playing season and personalised family holidays during the off-season. And our footballers and hurlers may even get bundles of hard cash too, who knows?
All of this, and the GAA will not go bankrupt, not on my watch. Promise.
I'm going to take all of these decisions this morning. I don't need any help or further discussion and I don't need any time to think about it. Tomorrow morning?
Tomorrow, I'm going to hold a press conference in Croke Park at which I will disclose to everybody in the Gaelic Athletic Association exactly how much every official in the place earns. Starting with me. Then I'm going to continue with my Director General Páraic Duffy and move down through the employee names until the wages, expenses, pension contributions, and ice cream man money of every official in every county in the country is revealed for the first time.
I have no idea what they are but I'm pretty sure there are loads of things I've got to do on Tuesday. Wednesday's going to be mad, probably, beginning with all the emails building up over the last three days. Does the president of the GAA have his own personal mail address? Got to check that. But Thursday or Friday, I'm going to get around to the Gaelic Players Association.
I'm not going to bother myself with the GPA on my first Monday morning. They may suddenly be looking for five per cent of all the GAA's summer revenue and they will certainly be making most of the noise outside the door of my nice, medium-sized office but the GPA can wait. Dessie Farrell and Donal Óg Cusack can take out a pack of cards and amuse themselves for a few days. That is not meant to antagonise the pair of them. I will talk to them. I've met Dessie only once, years ago, but I've never had the pleasure of meeting Donal yet.
The pair of them are good, decent lads in my opinion, and as bosses of the GPA they are firm in their beliefs and as honest about their convictions and actions as the day is long, I'm sure. But they'll still have to wait a few days nevertheless. Because, do you know what? I'm still not at all sure about the GPA.
Very unsure if I am to be completely truthful this morning, the day before my first official morning, don't forget, as president of the GAA.
As those of you who pause for a little while at this page of the Tribune on Sunday mornings well know, there are not very many things in GAA life, or GAA wildlife, about which I ever confess to being unsure about. But the Gaelic Players Association?
They've been around the place, for what? A decade? More? And, still, even for me, as someone who loves his Gaelic footballers and hurlers, the GPA is a strange, grayish, muddle of an association.
I'm not even sure if it's an association at all, in the strictest sense of the world. An association is a defined, legitimate, well-chartered body. The GPA, to me, is still a group of well-meaning players and former players who have the interests of the best and hardest-working footballers and hurlers at heart but I do not have any clear and absolute proof of any mandate they may carry for all of the footballers and hurlers, county and club, in Ireland.
The GPA troubles me, it does. I just don't feel comfortable at all at the prospect of sitting down over tea, coffee and biscuits with Dessie, Donal and anybody else who might turn up and sit down at the table opposite me.
Why are some past players in the GPA and others not? Come to think of it, why haven't I ever received a phone call or a text message from Dessie? How can Peter Canavan be a member of the GPA? If I'm going to try to understand all of this, then will someone please explain to me how Peter can be a member of the GPA, and me, your president, a former Meath foot-soldier, not be a member of the GPA?
I don't want to be a member of the GPA, definitely not. I've enough on my plate now that I've got this job. But it's a question I'd like to get an answer to because it would help me to understand how the Gaelic Players Association is organized and administered as a fairly constituted, and democratic, organisation. Peter Canavan played for Tyrone in the first half of the '90s. I played for Meath in the first half of the '90s. It's not like I'm 25 or 35 years older than Peter.
Anyhow, not that it matters. I'm president and I need answers to far more important questions before I can make up my mind on what to say at my first meeting with the lads. So many questions to which, honestly and truly, nobody has provided me with answers to over the last decade.
Please, I do not want anyone to be offended or in any way insulted by the long list of questions I need to have answered asap. The sooner I get these questions answered then the sooner I will know what I need to do about the GPA and what to say to the lads when I meet them.
I've no problem buying them lunch if it comes to it. But it had better be a three- or four-course lunch because I need reminding of so many things. I need updating. I need good information. I can't even remember how Dessie Farrell got the job of GPA chief? I've no idea of the terms of his contract, no idea of to whom he reports (is there a committee or group of players who meet and question him and judge his performance annually?), and I have not got a clue if the GPA membership have the right to replace him if they feel he is not doing enough for them.
Which leads me to a few more questions? How many GPA members are there? Why does the GPA communicate so often with this membership by text message? When they meet, why do they close their doors to the media and the general public? It might seem that I am very fussy all of a sudden asking so many questions but I'm president of the Gaelic Athletic Association, one of the oldest and most respected associations in the country, of any kind, and an association which doesn't allow me to buy laces for my own shoes without a special resolution at our annual congress getting a two-thirds majority vote.
The GAA is a God-almighty association and if I am going to sit down on behalf of my 750,000 members with some other association and agree to write them some nice big cheques then I'd like to know exactly who they are, how they work, and where they are going.
Personally, I'd have no great problem giving them five per cent of the gate and TV revenues from the championship. I'd be happy to give them 10 per cent. I think they wholly deserve at least 10 per cent and, furthermore, I've no doubt in the wide earthly world that the GAA can afford to be this generous. We've spent €50 million, or €100 million, more maybe, on county grounds and floodlights over the last 10 years. I'll have to get the finance department to do an exact tally on that when I get in to my new office tomorrow morning. During the next 10 years I'd be happy to give this sort of money to the players. Definitely.
All I want are answers, some more clarity, greater understanding. Then I'll be more than happy to deal with the Gaelic Players Association, tomorrow morning if needed. I'd talk to the Gaelic Players Union, or the Gaelic Players Front, for that matter, and I'd fully recognize either of them just as quickly as the Gaelic Players Association, if they walked around the corner and showed me their full membership base, and evidence of this membership's voting records and decision making.
I'll talk to the GPA, the GPU and the GPF, and I'll talk to them all individually, or at the same time. I'll let the three of them share out all the money I give them. I'll wish them well. I'll know I've done the right thing and that I've done a good job on behalf of my own members.
I'm the president of the GAA and, let me repeat, I love Gaelic footballers and hurlers.
July 5, 2009
Good article alright. I was sent an email from a friend who is no longer on county panel-he is still on their list and obviously has a vote... he called them 'w*****s' really-how do these 'votes' work and why do we never hear the result.. like do the members have debates on issues?!!! It all seems to be driven by Dessie with Cavanagh being used by them
I'd have thought that the GAA might have trained up their volunteers and got them qualified in order to get round that apparent requirement.
Quote from: orangeman on July 06, 2009, 11:32:30 AM
I'd have thought that the GAA might have trained up their volunteers and got them qualified in order to get round that apparent requirement.
you would need a department in croke park to look after that. if you consider the cost of training plus the constant changes in personnell i.e. lads do it for maybe a year then quit, i cant see how that could be economically feasible. think about it.
Was the Munster final not part of the blackout, or did Daniel Goulding break the picket line? :D
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 06, 2009, 02:37:15 PM
Was the Munster final not part of the blackout, or did Daniel Goulding break the picket line? :D
Munster hurling final I believe.
Does anyone actually think this is going to be a great loss, the players coming out and repeating the same rubbish to the reporters afraid of saying anything they shouldnt or offending anyonel. Same as the managers sure they are that afraid of giving something away they just say nothing bar the usual cliches.
Good riddance to them anyway, just get on the with the analysis and forget them.
Quote from: NAG1 on July 06, 2009, 03:27:41 PM
Does anyone actually think this is going to be a great loss, the players coming out and repeating the same rubbish to the reporters afraid of saying anything they shouldnt or offending anyonel. Same as the managers sure they are that afraid of giving something away they just say nothing bar the usual cliches.
Good riddance to them anyway, just get on the with the analysis and forget them.
I did laugh at Banty's post match interview.
Dessie wants this media ban lads, so that he can control the information flow through himself. He wouldn't want some "unskilled" man of the match to be asked to comment on such things during the GPA's stand off on this 5% issue. Might blow his argument out of the water. The players must want to distant themselves from any abuse that would come their way as well as they appear to be as quiet as mice on the topic at the minute.
Ken Mc Grath and Shane Mc Grath on rte just now giving interviews in front of a GPA background board.
No media ban here.
The GPA have probably got the broadcast rights for that I would say
Good press release from HQ here, credit to them. We need more of this to expose how unwilling to compromise the GPA are and how completely ridiculous their demands are.
http://www.gaa.ie/plugins/newsfeed.cgi?rm=content&plugin_data_id=27145
IMHO, this is one of the most important parts of the press realease:
"(ii) GAA players play our games as a recreation of choice, while others do so as a professional activity"
What have you done Dessie.................
"The GPA response to this request was received two days later, on June 10. The GPA demanded an immediate commitment by the GAA to provide funding of €50,000 per month to the GPA, and also that a final agreement, or at least substantial progress towards an agreement, be achieved by July 1, 2009. In addition to this monthly payment, the GPA would expect such an agreement to include a commitment by the GAA to provide the GPA with 5% of its gross income from all gate receipts, sponsorship and broadcast/media revenue. The GPA also declared that, failing either a full or interim agreement by July 1, it would be left with no alternative but to pursue its own course of action."
Finally the lies peddled by the GPA has been exposed and the true agenda has become transparent.
Thank god the current president has a set of balls. I just hope that those with real responsibility for all sections of the GAA now take a hard look at where they have been taking the organisation over the last 10/15 years and see that where we are now is an inevitable result of the "professionalisation" of the association as led by central council.
Whether it be flirting with other professional sports or incurring multi million euro debts on stadiums, full time paid administrators or ignoring payments to managers.
It has all culminated in this. Gerald McCarthy was the real rebel.
Quote from: fearglasmor on July 08, 2009, 11:32:38 AM
Finally the lies peddled by the GPA has been exposed and the true agenda has become transparent.
Thank god the current president has a set of balls. I just hope that those with real responsibility for all sections of the GAA now take a hard look at where they have been taking the organisation over the last 10/15 years and see that where we are now is an inevitable result of the "professionalisation" of the association as led by central council.
Whether it be flirting with other professional sports or incurring multi million euro debts on stadiums, full time paid administrators or ignoring payments to managers.
It has all culminated in this. Gerald McCarthy was the real rebel.
well said.
The GAA response to the GPA
GAA Position on formal recognition of the GPA
Given the specific recent background of the development of discussions with the GPA (see Annex 1), but also in the wider context of the issues to be resolved, the GAA wishes to state its formal position on the question of recognition of the GPA:
1. The GAA's serious engagement with the GPA on the issue of recognition, with the full support of GAA Central Council, demonstrates the Association's good faith in seeking a resolution to the recognition issue. The GAA has long recognised both the validity of a players' representative body and the potential value to players and Association alike of a partnership in such a context.
2. However, if the GAA is to provide significant funding to the GPA – regardless of the structure of such funding – it can only do so on the basis of the GPA's existence as an integral part of the Association. The GAA nationally reinvests virtually all of its revenues directly to Counties and Clubs and is fully committed to the welfare, indeed the enhanced welfare, of all those who play its games. It is essential, both for the players and the Association, that any funds spent on the crucially important area of player welfare are accountable and provide value for money.
3. The GAA centrally is, as indicated, prepared to provide significant funding to the GPA as an officially recognised players' body. However, as applies in the preparation of our own annual budgets, and also in respect of funding requests from all Club, County and Provincial units, from our sister organisations, and in relation to the many projects of a community nature that it undertakes, the clear GAA policy is to do so only in the context of a project based funding model. Under such a model, appropriate initiatives for inter county players would be approved and delivered based on an assessment in terms of value for money, affordability and their overall benefit to the playing body.
The GAA simply cannot provide funding for any unit or body based purely on a fixed percentage of annual income. The Association already has a substantial fixed annual overhead that must be met from revenue sources that are unfixed, unpredictable and subject to significant alteration due to factors outside the Association's control. The GAA has to act responsibly in its financial management, and cannot place its financial welfare at risk by committing itself to a permanent arrangement of the kind sought.
4. It is also the view of the GAA that comparisons with other players' bodies elsewhere and in other contexts are of limited relevance. On every important criterion, the situation in respect of the GAA is profoundly different:
(i) The GAA is an amateur association, while other bodies function in a purely professional context;
(ii) GAA players play our games as a recreation of choice, while others do so as a professional activity;
(iii) The GAA does not exist to make a profit. Indeed, professional sport is increasingly conducted according to the profitability models of business. Sporting entities "invest in" players as, in effect, assets and, very often, must respond to the demands of shareholders.
5. Apart from these fundamental and specific differences, there is a more general context that should be taken into account, and within which the issue of the recognition, status and funding of the GPA must be resolved. This concerns the very nature and ethos of the GAA. The GAA belongs to the tens of thousands of Irish people who participate in GAA activities in their respective local communities, ranging from the selfless volunteers who seek to improve the quality of life, sense of unity and belonging in their communities to those who are spectators of our games. In essence, the GAA exists because of the voluntary efforts of its members; the GAA, therefore, has a core duty of responsibility to all its members. This embraces all of our players, as well as the varying needs of the entire GAA community.
Part of that responsibility is manifested through the huge and growing GAA expenditure on facilities in clubs and communities throughout the country. Notwithstanding these enormous demands on GAA revenue, the Association allocates in excess of an audited €25 million annually in the preparation of inter-county teams and on the welfare of its players. The GAA is able to devote such a significant expenditure in these areas due to funding sources such as gate receipts, sponsorship and broadcast/media revenue.
6. On an annual basis, the GAA reinvests its income in the infrastructural, social and human development of the Association and its members, only ever retaining a tiny fraction of its resources as cash reserves. Even a cursory examination of the audited and publicly available accounts of our County boards, Provincial and Central Councils would confirm that the GAA does not have substantial cash reserves.
7. Notwithstanding all of this, the GAA recognises the hugely important role played by inter county players in the promotion and development of our games and in generating finance that helps the Association to operate successfully at many levels. Hence, in addition to financing projects of a welfare nature, the GAA reiterates its willingness, subject to a resolution of the recognition and funding issues, to: (i) provide administrative funding for the GPA; (ii) provide office accommodation for the GPA; (iii) ensure GPA representation on national committees; (iv) develop joint GAA/GPA sponsorships and opportunities for the benefit of our players and indeed the wider Association.
8. Finally, the GAA wishes to re-state unambiguously its determination to continue genuine and good faith discussions with the GPA with a view to the earliest possible agreement on the recognition and funding issues. However, it is critical that any eventual agreement should not compromise the principles that inform the GAA position and that are at the heart of the Association's existence and ethos. In other words, the recognition of the GPA must preserve the principles upon which the GAA is based, its internal cohesion, its amateur and voluntary character, and its mission to cater for all its members. It must also, of course, be consistent with maintaining the financial integrity of the Association.
Conclusion
The GAA and the GPA have proved in recent years that they can work together successfully, be it in addressing player-welfare matters or in pursuit of the Government Expenses scheme. In so doing, we have developed a solid working relationship based on the principle of mutual respect. It is the GAA's wish and intention that, this should be the basis of our future collaboration in the crucial common goal of looking after, and enhancing, the welfare of the players of Gaelic games. To that end and in that context, the GAA is ready immediately to re-enter discussions with the GPA on the matter of recognition, and to devote its best efforts to bringing these discussions to a mutually satisfactory and early conclusion.
Annex 1
Discussions with the GPA on formal recognition
The GAA began a process of consultation with the GPA during the Presidency of Nickey Brennan to explore the possibility of formal recognition of the players' body by the Association. This process culminated in a series of direct meetings between representatives of the GAA and the GPA in December and January 2008-09.
While it was clear throughout this process that there were differing concepts of the nature of an eventual agreement on recognition – specifically with regard to the structure of funding for the GPA; the necessity or otherwise of a formal link between the two bodies; and, to a lesser extent, the transfer of responsibility for elements of player-welfare matters from the GAA to the GPA – both parties continued seriously to seek a basis for agreement. This phase of the discussions concluded on February 27 of this year when the GAA submitted a document to the GPA outlining a possible framework for recognition of the GPA. The GAA never received a formal response to this document, although there were informal indications that the GPA was unhappy with the proposed funding structure.
Following the installation of Christy Cooney as GAA President on April 18, the GAA indicated to the GPA that discussions on recognition would resume when the new President had an opportunity to settle into his role. The GAA was given to understand that this position was accepted and understood by the GPA, and the first meeting with members of the GPA's Executive duly took place on the evening of June 8. At this meeting both sides agreed that the issue of recognition needed to be resolved as soon as possible, and the GAA proposed September 30 as the deadline for conclusion of discussions on the issue. At what was a cordial meeting, the GAA requested the GPA to respond formally to the framework document that had been submitted by the GAA in February, and to outline any reservations it may have had.
The GPA response to this request was received two days later, on June 10. The GPA demanded an immediate commitment by the GAA to provide funding of €50,000 per month to the GPA, and also that a final agreement, or at least substantial progress towards an agreement, be achieved by July 1, 2009. In addition to this monthly payment, the GPA would expect such an agreement to include a commitment by the GAA to provide the GPA with 5% of its gross income from all gate receipts, sponsorship and broadcast/media revenue. The GPA also declared that, failing either a full or interim agreement by July 1, it would be left with no alternative but to pursue its own course of action.
This correspondence from the GPA was placed before a meeting of the GAA Management Committee on June 13. Given that the GPA position required nothing less than a fundamental and radical alteration of GAA policy and philosophy, the meeting reached the entirely reasonable decision that the matter should be discussed fully at a special meeting of the Management Committee on July 11, to permit a period of review and reflection by the Committee members.
Despite the obvious need for the GAA to have some reasonable time to consider the matter and despite, too, the fact that the CEO of the GPA and the Director General of the GAA were to be on holiday for a combined period of three weeks between the two Management Committee meetings, the July 11 date was rejected by the GPA. On June 25 the GPA indicated that it would be embarking on the course of action in which it is currently engaged.
Did Diarmuid O'Sullivan say in his interview in the Sunday Independent that the day was coming and players would be receiving a flat rate to play - or was it a dream
Quote from: full back on July 08, 2009, 11:20:33 AM
What have you done Dessie.................
"The GPA response to this request was received two days later, on June 10. The GPA demanded an immediate commitment by the GAA to provide funding of €50,000 per month to the GPA, and also that a final agreement, or at least substantial progress towards an agreement, be achieved by July 1, 2009. In addition to this monthly payment, the GPA would expect such an agreement to include a commitment by the GAA to provide the GPA with 5% of its gross income from all gate receipts, sponsorship and broadcast/media revenue. The GPA also declared that, failing either a full or interim agreement by July 1, it would be left with no alternative but to pursue its own course of action."
Sh!t that's a hell of a lot of steak dinners
50k a month!!! I presume that's for administration of the GPA?
My thoughts are this is a struggling kick by the GPA who are well low on funding and sponsorship
Quote from: JMohan on July 08, 2009, 12:53:10 PM
Quote from: full back on July 08, 2009, 11:20:33 AM
What have you done Dessie.................
"The GPA response to this request was received two days later, on June 10. The GPA demanded an immediate commitment by the GAA to provide funding of €50,000 per month to the GPA, and also that a final agreement, or at least substantial progress towards an agreement, be achieved by July 1, 2009. In addition to this monthly payment, the GPA would expect such an agreement to include a commitment by the GAA to provide the GPA with 5% of its gross income from all gate receipts, sponsorship and broadcast/media revenue. The GPA also declared that, failing either a full or interim agreement by July 1, it would be left with no alternative but to pursue its own course of action."
Sh!t that's a hell of a lot of steak dinners
50k a month!!! I presume that's for administration of the GPA?
My thoughts are this is a struggling kick by the GPA who are well low on funding and sponsorship
And for the first time the GAA has furnished its version of events.
There is no way that they will be bullied or rushed into any agreement. The GPA as it currently stands is finished
€50k a month is a pittance compared to what they are looking for.
Bensars - I hope you are right.
Quote from: magpie seanie on July 08, 2009, 01:07:47 PM
€50k a month is a pittance compared to what they are looking for.
Bensars - I hope you are right.
No - they are looking for both according to that above
50k + the 5% of profits ....
QuoteThis phase of the discussions concluded on February 27 of this year when the GAA submitted a document to the GPA outlining a possible framework for recognition of the GPA. The GAA never received a formal response to this document, although there were informal indications that the GPA was unhappy with the proposed funding structure.
Any idea what this was? That seems to be the point where the GPA lost its chance of recognition and general acceptance.
It's becoming more and more clear that the GPA is a business owned by two individuals who through being a default county player representation greoup think that that gives them the right to tell us all how to give them money. Bringing player represenation into the GAA gives these owners (those with a financial interest in the business) no opertunity to skim whatever profits they want from what the 5% they are after. Is it any wonder they want nothing to do with the GAA's idea?
The mask has finally slipped.
Quote from: JMohan on July 08, 2009, 12:53:10 PM
Quote from: full back on July 08, 2009, 11:20:33 AM
What have you done Dessie.................
"The GPA response to this request was received two days later, on June 10. The GPA demanded an immediate commitment by the GAA to provide funding of €50,000 per month to the GPA, and also that a final agreement, or at least substantial progress towards an agreement, be achieved by July 1, 2009. In addition to this monthly payment, the GPA would expect such an agreement to include a commitment by the GAA to provide the GPA with 5% of its gross income from all gate receipts, sponsorship and broadcast/media revenue. The GPA also declared that, failing either a full or interim agreement by July 1, it would be left with no alternative but to pursue its own course of action."
Sh!t that's a hell of a lot of steak dinners
50k a month!!! I presume that's for administration of the GPA?
My thoughts are this is a struggling kick by the GPA who are well low on funding and sponsorship
It highlights the lack of business acumen within the GPA. And again another reason as to why they shouldn't be given a cent.
Dessie goes before an Oireachtas committee in a few minutes, you can watch it via the RTE site.
Speaking of which, their headline on the GAA statement is ignoring the most significant part of it:
GPA gains further recognition from HQ
Wednesday, 8 July 2009 13:01
GAA president Christy Cooney and director general Paraic Duffy have revealed that they are prepared to contribute significant funding to the Gaelic Players Association as an officially recognised players' body.
However, this could only be achieved in the context of a project-based funding model.
In a position paper outlined in Croke Park this morning, both men said the GAA could not provide funding for any unit or body based purely on a fixed percentage of annual income.
They also insisted that funding could only be provided if the GPA existed as an integral part of the GAA.
The following statement was issued by the GAA on their formal recognition of the GPA:
1 The GAA's serious engagement with the GPA on the issue of recognition, with the full support of GAA Central Council, demonstrates the Association's good faith in seeking a resolution to the recognition issue. The GAA has long recognised both the validity of a players' representative body and the potential value to players and Association alike of a partnership in such a context.
2 However, if the GAA is to provide significant funding to the GPA - regardless of the structure of such funding - it can only do so on the basis of the GPA's existence as an integral part of the Association. The GAA nationally reinvests virtually all of its revenues directly to Counties and Clubs and is fully committed to the welfare, indeed the enhanced welfare, of all those who play its games. It is essential, both for the players and the Association, that any funds spent on the crucially important area of player welfare are accountable and provide value for money.
3 The GAA centrally is, as indicated, prepared to provide significant funding to the GPA as an officially recognised players' body. However, as applies in the preparation of our own annual budgets, and also in respect of funding requests from all Club, County and Provincial units, from our sister organisations, and in relation to the many projects of a community nature that it undertakes, the clear GAA policy is to do so only in the context of a project based funding model. Under such a model, appropriate initiatives for inter county players would be approved and delivered based on an assessment in terms of value for money, affordability and their overall benefit to the playing body.
The GAA simply cannot provide funding for any unit or body based purely on a fixed percentage of annual income. The Association already has a substantial fixed annual overhead that must be met from revenue sources that are unfixed, unpredictable and subject to significant alteration due to factors outside the Association's control. The GAA has to act responsibly in its financial management, and cannot place its financial welfare at risk by committing itself to a permanent arrangement of the kind sought.
4 It is also the view of the GAA that comparisons with other players' bodies elsewhere and in other contexts are of limited relevance. On every important criterion, the situation in respect of the GAA is profoundly different:
(i) The GAA is an amateur association, while other bodies function in a purely professional context;
(ii) GAA players play our games as a recreation of choice, while others do so as a professional activity;
(iii) The GAA does not exist to make a profit. Indeed, professional sport is increasingly conducted according to the profitability models of business. Sporting entities "invest in" players as, in effect, assets and, very often, must respond to the demands of shareholders.
5 Apart from these fundamental and specific differences, there is a more general context that should be taken into account, and within which the issue of the recognition, status and funding of the GPA must be resolved. This concerns the very nature and ethos of the GAA. The GAA belongs to the tens of thousands of Irish people who participate in GAA activities in their respective local communities, ranging from the selfless volunteers who seek to improve the quality of life, sense of unity and belonging in their communities to those who are spectators of our games. In essence, the GAA exists because of the voluntary efforts of its members; the GAA, therefore, has a core duty of responsibility to all its members. This embraces all of our players, as well as the varying needs of the entire GAA community.
Part of that responsibility is manifested through the huge and growing GAA expenditure on facilities in clubs and communities throughout the country. Notwithstanding these enormous demands on GAA revenue, the Association allocates in excess of an audited €25 million annually in the preparation of inter-county teams and on the welfare of its players. The GAA is able to devote such a significant expenditure in these areas due to funding sources such as gate receipts, sponsorship and broadcast/media revenue.
6 On an annual basis, the GAA reinvests its income in the infrastructural, social and human development of the Association and its members, only ever retaining a tiny fraction of its resources as cash reserves. Even a cursory examination of the audited and publicly available accounts of our County boards, Provincial and Central Councils would confirm that the GAA does not have substantial cash reserves.
7 Notwithstanding all of this, the GAA recognises the hugely important role played by inter county players in the promotion and development of our games and in generating finance that helps the Association to operate successfully at many levels. Hence, in addition to financing projects of a welfare nature, the GAA reiterates its willingness, subject to a resolution of the recognition and funding issues, to: (i) provide administrative funding for the GPA; (ii) provide office accommodation for the GPA; (iii) ensure GPA representation on national committees; (iv) develop joint GAA/GPA sponsorships and opportunities for the benefit of our players and indeed the wider Association.
8 Finally, the GAA wishes to re-state unambiguously its determination to continue genuine and good faith discussions with the GPA with a view to the earliest possible agreement on the recognition and funding issues. However, it is critical that any eventual agreement should not compromise the principles that inform the GAA position and that are at the heart of the Association's existence and ethos. In other words, the recognition of the GPA must preserve the principles upon which the GAA is based, its internal cohesion, its amateur and voluntary character, and its mission to cater for all its members. It must also, of course, be consistent with maintaining the financial integrity of the Association.
Conclusion
The GAA and the GPA have proved in recent years that they can work together successfully, be it in addressing player-welfare matters or in pursuit of the Government Expenses scheme. In so doing, we have developed a solid working relationship based on the principle of mutual respect. It is the GAA's wish and intention that, this should be the basis of our future collaboration in the crucial common goal of looking after, and enhancing, the welfare of the players of Gaelic games. To that end and in that context, the GAA is ready immediately to re-enter discussions with the GPA on the matter of recognition, and to devote its best efforts to bringing these discussions to a mutually satisfactory and early conclusion.
>:(
This just seems to be a battle of terms. There's a good chance the GPA will receive the recognition they want, but not on their terms. They've probably reached for the top end of the scale in terms of funds knowing Cooney wont want to be seen as dancing to their tune. This might actually work out well for the GPA in the bigger picture and lead to a healthy player representative body. That's as long as Dessie's willing to negotiate.
Dessie droning away at the committee. Our county is represented, sadly it's on the GPA side of the room. Johnno is one of the TD's in attendance.
How can Jonno be on the committee if he is continually asking questions and speaking pro GPA and grants - is that not a conflict of interest?
Quote from: antoinse on July 08, 2009, 03:35:03 PM
How can Jonno be on the committee if he is continually asking questions and speaking pro GPA and grants - is that not a conflict of interest?
This is Ireland where a grant in recognition of your efforts is really additional expenses cos we're amateur and really want to stay amateur (for now) despite getting paid money for playing a game. The whole thing is a joke.
watched a snippet of it . Why this country has an Oireachtais is beyond me. Its like listening or watching an episode of Sesame Street.
The only thing that has surprised me is the fact the GAA seem to have a backbone at the top level! Long may it continue! and they were spot on with that statement!
The GAA should tell the GPA to go f**k themselves.
A number of points.
1. Do players not have to pay to become members of the GPA? If so, how does the GPA square the fact that they would have to pay fees to benefit from any GAA funded aid schemes (be that educational or health related). With any non-GPA member (but still inter-county player) not benefitting? The point I'm getting towards is the GPA's stance of pay up your fees or no help is forthcoming.
2. Who the f**k do they think they are demanding everyone else make sacrifices for them and them alone?
3. How much is Dessie Farrell on? And that weed Cusack. How much would they be siphoning off the top?
4. What part of "if you don't want to play or train, don't, no-one is forcing you to" do they not understand?
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 08, 2009, 08:25:20 PM
The GAA should tell the GPA to go f**k themselves.
A number of points.
1. Do players not have to pay to become members of the GPA? If so, how does the GPA square the fact that they would have to pay fees to benefit from any GAA funded aid schemes (be that educational or health related). With any non-GPA member (but still inter-county player) not benefitting? The point I'm getting towards is the GPA's stance of pay up your fees or no help is forthcoming.
2. Who the f**k do they think they are demanding everyone else make sacrifices for them and them alone?
3. How much is Dessie Farrell on? And that weed Cusack. How much would they be siphoning off the top?
4. What part of "if you don't want to play or train, don't, no-one is forcing you to" do they not understand?
The next document the GAA send to the GAA should consist of thjese 2 lines!
I LOVE THIS SECTION... hopefully the GAA bosses hold strong to this shower ... Dessie, Donal and Sean Cavanagh take heed
4 It is also the view of the GAA that comparisons with other players' bodies elsewhere and in other contexts are of limited relevance. On every important criterion, the situation in respect of the GAA is profoundly different:
(i) The GAA is an amateur association, while other bodies function in a purely professional context;
(ii) GAA players play our games as a recreation of choice, while others do so as a professional activity;
(iii) The GAA does not exist to make a profit. Indeed, professional sport is increasingly conducted according to the profitability models of business. Sporting entities "invest in" players as, in effect, assets and, very often, must respond to the demands of shareholders.
I was out wandering around last week and I wandered into An Fear Rua's site, first time for years. There was a thread on the GPA and on that thread there was not one Pro-Gpa poster. It is incredible to think that even last week I was up on the Shannon around Carrick and in the pub where I watched the game I asked two lads who were having a smoke what they thought and it was the same story.
If I was a serious sponsor, or head of Marketing for my company I would not place my products in the care of a divisive group in any way or have the product associated with conflict. Here we have a situation where the GAA may find it difficult to get sponsorship because they will be perceived to be in conflict with the GPA and the GPA will find it hard to get sponsorship because not alone are they in conflict with the GAA but with us, the supporters of our clubs and the grassroots of the GAA.
Up to now the perception has been that there is a row between the GAA and the GPA but no forum has been provided during this ten year tiff to encompass the views of us, supporters and ordinary members of the GAA. It has been discussed in the media with statements flying back and forth as if club members and in particular, retired inter county players and club officers who are against the ideals of the GPA did not exist.
The GPA should now consider their position and do what is abundantly clear they should do from the views that have been expressed about them, that being to just go away. They have done some good and we accept that.
What I can't accept is all the grey areas that surround them such as:
In their company records they say they pay directors pensions, are these pensions of Paddy the Plasterer proportions or Michael Fingleton proportions and who is paid pensions.?
How are ex players selected for positions on the board of directors or committee as it apears from a recent article in a Sunday paper that this is a selective process. Accordingly it can not represent the broad spectrum of the GAA but rather a selective membership of the GPA. As such, as Cyril Farrell would say, any grant funding would not be equally distributed among players and from the very day it would be handed over you would have a rebellion from the Kilkenny Senior football team and the Wicklow hurling team, and rightly so or we would not have the Declan Brownes or the Tommy Gill's.
From my understanding of any state funding program, you can not get a grant to fund outstanding debts, you can get an equipment grant, employment subsidy grant, opening stock grants from various bodies such as the Enterprise Board or Fas. The very first piece of paper that they will want to see is a copy of your last bank statement and a Tax Clearance Certificate, no ifs, no buts, that's how it operates. The accounts available for the GPA, and this is in the public domain, show that for the last two years they have a considerable Vat liability. Any company that applies for a grant with a Vat lliability is not at the races because you can't get a government payment to make one back. Similarly, if the GAA get government funding they can not alocate part of that funding to a third party with a tax liability, in the same way as if I do a job for the Office of Public Works and on completion I give them an invoice for say 20,000 while I have a vat liability, they will, as has happened, retain that money and the tax office will put an attachment on it.
Now, from a legal standpoint, I am not saying there is wrongdoing on the part of the GPA. I am quoting from details readily available at www.cro.ie and I am not saying they owed vat for two consequetive years, it is their own auditor who states this and who placed the company returns at everyones disposal. I have no idea how they charge Vat or return vat nor could I care less, they have a laptop for sale on their website and it doesn't say whether it is Vat inclusive or not. As far as I am aware the law states that you must either include Vat in your advertised product OR state what the extra Vat amount is. (That would make this particular laptop a very good buy).
The point I make in all of this is that even if the GAA wanted to give the GPA a grant in the morning I don't think they could legally do so, not leat because if the GAA payment goes into a central GPA account then could it not have a percentage allocated to those directors pensions I am asking about?
Bud Wiser - Maybe this is a case for the Minister of Finance rather than the Minister of Sport
I think Bud raises some good points. We're expected to hand over millions of euro to an organisation we know nothing about. Lets face it we know more about the inner workings of a monastery then we do about the GPA.
Where is the business acumen, where is the business plan. How would it be distributed- what would they use it for? Some of the players seem to think they have a divine right to this money. If they want to go on strike -let them. The association didn't begin and end with these players. We're talking about millions of euro not a couple of hundred quid.
Quote from: Bud Wiser on July 09, 2009, 10:11:55 AM
I was out wandering around last week and I wandered into An Fear Rua's site, first time for years. There was a thread on the GPA and on that thread there was not one Pro-Gpa poster. It is incredible to think that even last week I was up on the Shannon around Carrick and in the pub where I watched the game I asked two lads who were having a smoke what they thought and it was the same story.
If I was a serious sponsor, or head of Marketing for my company I would not place my products in the care of a divisive group in any way or have the product associated with conflict. Here we have a situation where the GAA may find it difficult to get sponsorship because they will be perceived to be in conflict with the GPA and the GPA will find it hard to get sponsorship because not alone are they in conflict with the GAA but with us, the supporters of our clubs and the grassroots of the GAA.
Up to now the perception has been that there is a row between the GAA and the GPA but no forum has been provided during this ten year tiff to encompass the views of us, supporters and ordinary members of the GAA. It has been discussed in the media with statements flying back and forth as if club members and in particular, retired inter county players and club officers who are against the ideals of the GPA did not exist.
The GPA should now consider their position and do what is abundantly clear they should do from the views that have been expressed about them, that being to just go away. They have done some good and we accept that.
What I can't accept is all the grey areas that surround them such as:
In their company records they say they pay directors pensions, are these pensions of Paddy the Plasterer proportions or Michael Fingleton proportions and who is paid pensions.?
How are ex players selected for positions on the board of directors or committee as it apears from a recent article in a Sunday paper that this is a selective process. Accordingly it can not represent the broad spectrum of the GAA but rather a selective membership of the GPA. As such, as Cyril Farrell would say, any grant funding would not be equally distributed among players and from the very day it would be handed over you would have a rebellion from the Kilkenny Senior football team and the Wicklow hurling team, and rightly so or we would not have the Declan Brownes or the Tommy Gill's.
From my understanding of any state funding program, you can not get a grant to fund outstanding debts, you can get an equipment grant, employment subsidy grant, opening stock grants from various bodies such as the Enterprise Board or Fas. The very first piece of paper that they will want to see is a copy of your last bank statement and a Tax Clearance Certificate, no ifs, no buts, that's how it operates. The accounts available for the GPA, and this is in the public domain, show that for the last two years they have a considerable Vat liability. Any company that applies for a grant with a Vat liability is not at the races because you can't get a government payment to make one back. Similarly, if the GAA get government funding they can not alocate part of that funding to a third party with a tax liability, in the same way as if I do a job for the Office of Public Works and on completion I give them an invoice for say 20,000 while I have a vat liability, they will, as has happened, retain that money and the tax office will put an attachment on it.
Now, from a legal standpoint, I am not saying there is wrongdoing on the part of the GPA. I am quoting from details readily available at www.cro.ie and I am not saying they owed vat for two consequetive years, it is their own auditor who states this and who placed the company returns at everyones disposal. I have no idea how they charge Vat or return vat nor could I care less, they have a laptop for sale on their website and it doesn't say whether it is Vat inclusive or not. As far as I am aware the law states that you must either include Vat in your advertised product OR state what the extra Vat amount is. (That would make this particular laptop a very good buy).
The point I make in all of this is that even if the GAA wanted to give the GPA a grant in the morning I don't think they could legally do so, not leat because if the GAA payment goes into a central GPA account then could it not have a percentage allocated to those directors pensions I am asking about?
Bud the VAT questions has been answered a few times, nearly every business that files accounts would have a VAT and PAYE liability at the end of their year, they pay it when it is due not before, having a liability to pay something does not mean it is due then but a later date. We would have Tax Clarence Cert in our business and both a VAT and PAYE liability.
But what are they going to do with the 5% and 50k per month. Its like me going to a bank manager and asking for a loan for a new business with no business plan. Its hilarious.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 09, 2009, 02:00:25 PM
But what are they going to do with the 5% and 50k per month. Its like me going to a bank manager and asking for a loan for a new business with no business plan. Its hilarious.
Let's hazard a guess...salaries, pension costs, "admin" costs, "office" expenses, travel expenses, professional fees, mobile phone fees, marketing costs, cleaning and consumables, wife's wages, use of home as office, duck ponds, moats, dirty movies....
Some people are so bitter.
Like I'm not exactly thrilled at the fact that they are excluding the ordinary club player from this, which would probably be one of my biggest problem with it. But there's no need for people to be so bitter about it, to begrudge them a pathetic 5%.
I mean if you're out of work, that, at least, €1000 at the end of the season, it will make a hell of a difference at the end of the year for the IC player, but not so much that it'll want them going mad for more.
They work hard all year round, the level of skill and fitness..etc improves year in year out, the off time in the season gets shorter and shorter, more is demanded from them each year. I can see why they're getting frustrated, especially when they aren't seeing the money go back in anywhere else. They work hard, 26 odd hours a week is a lot, and they probably feel they deserve some reward for that. Something to recognise their efforts.
Ya they're not forced to do it, but if that's the case we'll have no one left to play. They aren't forced to do it, but they do it because they love it, but they do have to sacrifice a lot. To deny that is unfair to them, especially when it's so clear to see, especially when you consider how demanding it's gotten over the last few years, it'd be hard to deny that they don't deserve what they're asking for.
I don't really back it, amateur is amateur, but I can see where they're coming from, and if you're paying clowns like Frank Murphy, I'd much rather see it go to the players. So whatever happens, I'm not going to begrudge them it. It's not like you can say they haven't earned it.
I mean, they give us so much entertainment all year round, they're labled as heroes. But when it comes to giving them recognition, then they're a joke?
People who have problems with the GPA, the problems are mostly with this part of them because they do do a lot of good work in other parts of the game. But the only way to stop the GPA is to slow them down, to slow down their momentum. If the GAA keep saying no, if they keep adding fuel to the fire then more and more momentum will continue to grow, and it's been building and building for a few years now. The players feel they've a right to be recognised. I see no problem in that if it'll stop the backlash which the GAA will face if they keep on provoking them.
At the end of the day 5% is f**k all, and I don't see the point in begruding them the tiny amount of money that they could possibly get. Especially if it'll prevent backlash in the future.
Would the players not prefer if the ticket prices went down 5 - 10 %.
Quote from: Reillers on July 09, 2009, 03:01:22 PM
Some people are so bitter.
Like I'm not exactly thrilled at the fact that they are excluding the ordinary club player from this, which would probably be one of my biggest problem with it. But there's no need for people to be so bitter about it, to begrudge them a pathetic 5%.
I mean if you're out of work, that, at least, €1000 at the end of the season, it will make a hell of a difference at the end of the year for the IC player, but not so much that it'll want them going mad for more.
They work hard all year round, the level of skill and fitness..etc improves year in year out, the off time in the season gets shorter and shorter, more is demanded from them each year. I can see why they're getting frustrated, especially when they aren't seeing the money go back in anywhere else. They work hard, 26 odd hours a week is a lot, and they probably feel they deserve some reward for that. Something to recognise their efforts.
Ya they're not forced to do it, but if that's the case we'll have no one left to play. They aren't forced to do it, but they do it because they love it, but they do have to sacrifice a lot. To deny that is unfair to them, especially when it's so clear to see, especially when you consider how demanding it's gotten over the last few years, it'd be hard to deny that they don't deserve what they're asking for.
I don't really back it, amateur is amateur, but I can see where they're coming from, and if you're paying clowns like Frank Murphy, I'd much rather see it go to the players. So whatever happens, I'm not going to begrudge them it. It's not like you can say they haven't earned it.
I mean, they give us so much entertainment all year round, they're labled as heroes. But when it comes to giving them recognition, then they're a joke?
People who have problems with the GPA, the problems are mostly with this part of them because they do do a lot of good work in other parts of the game. But the only way to stop the GPA is to slow them down, to slow down their momentum. If the GAA keep saying no, if they keep adding fuel to the fire then more and more momentum will continue to grow, and it's been building and building for a few years now. The players feel they've a right to be recognised. I see no problem in that if it'll stop the backlash which the GAA will face if they keep on provoking them.
At the end of the day 5% is f**k all, and I don't see the point in begruding them the tiny amount of money that they could possibly get. Especially if it'll prevent backlash in the future.
How much is 5% gross of the nett profits ?? It might not seem as insignificant to you then.
Quote from: Reillers on July 09, 2009, 03:01:22 PM
Ya they're not forced to do it, but if that's the case we'll have no one left to play.
Not true
Plenty of people will still play the game
The GAA isnt going to go under or disband if money isnt paid
Quote from: Reillers on July 09, 2009, 03:01:22 PM
Some people are so bitter.
Like I'm not exactly thrilled at the fact that they are excluding the ordinary club player from this, which would probably be one of my biggest problem with it. But there's no need for people to be so bitter about it, to begrudge them a pathetic 5%.
I mean if you're out of work, that, at least, €1000 at the end of the season, it will make a hell of a difference at the end of the year for the IC player, but not so much that it'll want them going mad for more.
They work hard all year round, the level of skill and fitness..etc improves year in year out, the off time in the season gets shorter and shorter, more is demanded from them each year. I can see why they're getting frustrated, especially when they aren't seeing the money go back in anywhere else. They work hard, 26 odd hours a week is a lot, and they probably feel they deserve some reward for that. Something to recognise their efforts.
Ya they're not forced to do it, but if that's the case we'll have no one left to play. They aren't forced to do it, but they do it because they love it, but they do have to sacrifice a lot. To deny that is unfair to them, especially when it's so clear to see, especially when you consider how demanding it's gotten over the last few years, it'd be hard to deny that they don't deserve what they're asking for.
I don't really back it, amateur is amateur, but I can see where they're coming from, and if you're paying clowns like Frank Murphy, I'd much rather see it go to the players. So whatever happens, I'm not going to begrudge them it. It's not like you can say they haven't earned it.
I mean, they give us so much entertainment all year round, they're labled as heroes. But when it comes to giving them recognition, then they're a joke?
People who have problems with the GPA, the problems are mostly with this part of them because they do do a lot of good work in other parts of the game. But the only way to stop the GPA is to slow them down, to slow down their momentum. If the GAA keep saying no, if they keep adding fuel to the fire then more and more momentum will continue to grow, and it's been building and building for a few years now. The players feel they've a right to be recognised. I see no problem in that if it'll stop the backlash which the GAA will face if they keep on provoking them.
At the end of the day 5% is f**k all, and I don't see the point in begruding them the tiny amount of money that they could possibly get. Especially if it'll prevent backlash in the future.
A few counter arguments:
1. I don't think anyone is 'begrudging' them anything - for me, it's wrong to have a hierarchy of GAA volunteer. The Elite IC player is a product of their clubs and is the product of hundreds of people's volunteer work. IC games are the window dressing of the GAA, not the be all and end all.
2. You say IC players get frustrated when they see the money the GAA earns not being re-invested anywhere else - that's plain ludicrous - the GAA accounts are available as a public document and anyone can where all the money is being re-invested in each county board - it's not as if Central council are like some African dictatorship all driving around in Rolls Royces
3. Personally speaking, I'm a club officer, a County board officer, a Juvenile coach, a player among other things in the GAA - I spend probably at least twice the 26 hours figure you quote involved in the GAA each week - I don't apply for a cent in expenses. When I bring the youngfellas from my team to a match in Parnell park or Croke park, I generally end up paying for half of their tickets, end up paying for their bus/luas etc because they're foreign nationals/their parents don't have the money etc - I don't mention it to anybody and don't give it a second thought.
If I thought that I was coaching these players and giving my time for free so they could become professionals I'd have second thoughts about it - I'm doing what I do for the benefit of the GAA, for the benefit of my club, for the benefit of the players involved and most importantly because I enjoy it - I can walk away at any stage if I don't want to do it anymore - I'm not trying to big myself up, simply illustrating an example against Dessie Farrell's patronising 'rump of malcontents' idea..
4. The GPA are looking for a flat 5% with no breakdown of how they'll spend or re-distribute it - as another poster made the point - I wouldn't walk into a bank and ask for a large loan without a business plan.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 09, 2009, 02:00:25 PM
But what are they going to do with the 5% and 50k per month. Its like me going to a bank manager and asking for a loan for a new business with no business plan. Its hilarious.
I think you'll find the GPA aren't interested in loan repayments !! ;)
5% of the total gross income = ? % of the total nett profit ??? Can anyone shed any light on this as I've a feeling that the 5% will significantly rise.
Quote from: gerrykeegan on July 09, 2009, 01:52:22 PM
Bud the VAT questions has been answered a few times, nearly every business that files accounts would have a VAT and PAYE liability at the end of their year, they pay it when it is due not before, having a liability to pay something does not mean it is due then but a later date. We would have Tax Clarence Cert in our business and both a VAT and PAYE liability.
I have to agree with this, just because there is a liability to pay it, doesn't mean it's overdue. Any accounts based on the accruals principle will have certain balances that they charge to income statement but don't necessarily pay over immediately in cash. Like a credit card bill - you know you have to pay out the money some day, but you won't get a black mark just because you wait till payday to have enough cash to pay it, you usually have a bit of time between receiving the bill and the date payment is due. So it doesn't necessarily tell you anything as the balance sheet is at one particular point in time.
Any % of gross income will generally be the biggest % you could get. As you say orangeman, 5% of gross income will be a hell of a lot more than 5% of net profit. Take for example the accounts of Croke Park (can you get the Central Council's anywhere?) - 2007 gross income was about £44m, 5% of it about £2.2m. Profit was just over £3m. That 5% of turnover becomes over 66% of the profit.
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on July 09, 2009, 02:35:42 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on July 09, 2009, 02:00:25 PM
But what are they going to do with the 5% and 50k per month. Its like me going to a bank manager and asking for a loan for a new business with no business plan. Its hilarious.
Let's hazard a guess...salaries, pension costs, "admin" costs, "office" expenses, travel expenses, professional fees, mobile phone fees, marketing costs, cleaning and consumables, wife's wages, use of home as office, duck ponds, moats, dirty movies....
...baby sitters even for players with no babies, bottled water, loss of evening shift earnings ::), cuddly toy....
Quote from: heffo on July 09, 2009, 03:47:08 PM
Quote from: Reillers on July 09, 2009, 03:01:22 PM
Some people are so bitter.
Like I'm not exactly thrilled at the fact that they are excluding the ordinary club player from this, which would probably be one of my biggest problem with it. But there's no need for people to be so bitter about it, to begrudge them a pathetic 5%.
I mean if you're out of work, that, at least, €1000 at the end of the season, it will make a hell of a difference at the end of the year for the IC player, but not so much that it'll want them going mad for more.
They work hard all year round, the level of skill and fitness..etc improves year in year out, the off time in the season gets shorter and shorter, more is demanded from them each year. I can see why they're getting frustrated, especially when they aren't seeing the money go back in anywhere else. They work hard, 26 odd hours a week is a lot, and they probably feel they deserve some reward for that. Something to recognise their efforts.
Ya they're not forced to do it, but if that's the case we'll have no one left to play. They aren't forced to do it, but they do it because they love it, but they do have to sacrifice a lot. To deny that is unfair to them, especially when it's so clear to see, especially when you consider how demanding it's gotten over the last few years, it'd be hard to deny that they don't deserve what they're asking for.
I don't really back it, amateur is amateur, but I can see where they're coming from, and if you're paying clowns like Frank Murphy, I'd much rather see it go to the players. So whatever happens, I'm not going to begrudge them it. It's not like you can say they haven't earned it.
I mean, they give us so much entertainment all year round, they're labled as heroes. But when it comes to giving them recognition, then they're a joke?
People who have problems with the GPA, the problems are mostly with this part of them because they do do a lot of good work in other parts of the game. But the only way to stop the GPA is to slow them down, to slow down their momentum. If the GAA keep saying no, if they keep adding fuel to the fire then more and more momentum will continue to grow, and it's been building and building for a few years now. The players feel they've a right to be recognised. I see no problem in that if it'll stop the backlash which the GAA will face if they keep on provoking them.
At the end of the day 5% is f**k all, and I don't see the point in begruding them the tiny amount of money that they could possibly get. Especially if it'll prevent backlash in the future.
A few counter arguments:
1. I don't think anyone is 'begrudging' them anything - for me, it's wrong to have a hierarchy of GAA volunteer. The Elite IC player is a product of their clubs and is the product of hundreds of people's volunteer work. IC games are the window dressing of the GAA, not the be all and end all.
2. You say IC players get frustrated when they see the money the GAA earns not being re-invested anywhere else - that's plain ludicrous - the GAA accounts are available as a public document and anyone can where all the money is being re-invested in each county board - it's not as if Central council are like some African dictatorship all driving around in Rolls Royces
3. Personally speaking, I'm a club officer, a County board officer, a Juvenile coach, a player among other things in the GAA - I spend probably at least twice the 26 hours figure you quote involved in the GAA each week - I don't apply for a cent in expenses. When I bring the youngfellas from my team to a match in Parnell park or Croke park, I generally end up paying for half of their tickets, end up paying for their bus/luas etc because they're foreign nationals/their parents don't have the money etc - I don't mention it to anybody and don't give it a second thought.
4. The GPA are looking for a flat 5% with no breakdown of how they'll spend or re-distribute it - as another poster made the point - I wouldn't walk into a bank and ask for a large loan without a business plan.
1. That's what it sounds like from a lot of posts on here. And I'm sorry, but if you think there isn't all ready a divide between club and IC players then you're living up in the clouds, or in eh..Heffoland.
2. That's what they say, but they say they can't see it being put back in anywhere, even the 19mil that the GAA got off of the soccer and rugby, they say they can't see where it's being put back in, or at least so Sully says.
3. That's great for you, fair play and whatever, but not everyone can afford to not apply for a cent in expenses. And like I said a lot are now out of work.
They give their time with their club as much as the next person, and their not looking for anything for the work they do with their clubs, so comparing the two is at the end of the day pretty irrelevant, as in they're seperate.
They do that work, and then they've work with the IC team as well. The IC level is seperate all together.
At the moment they're not looking for it to go pro, could they in the future? Who knows, anything could happen, same way whose to say you wont get hit by a car when you leave your house.
It's pointless worrying about it imo. If it happens, then well, that's a bridge we need to jump off in the future. Imo right now, it's about getting recognised, which is something I think at this stage they deserve at least.
4. That I don't agree with, but I'm sure we'll see what they want as a breakdown soon enough.
My problem here is people are acting like they're getting millions each. At the least it's 1000, at the most, 2,500. It's not breaking the bank, it's not enough for them to go mad for money down the line. But it will make a difference to those out of work and such at the end of the year.
I'd much rather see something done for them instead of this money they want now, but as you have it it's not, and I think we risk a lot more by pissing them off then just recognising them now.
Quote from: Rois on July 09, 2009, 04:28:16 PM
Quote from: gerrykeegan on July 09, 2009, 01:52:22 PM
Bud the VAT questions has been answered a few times, nearly every business that files accounts would have a VAT and PAYE liability at the end of their year, they pay it when it is due not before, having a liability to pay something does not mean it is due then but a later date. We would have Tax Clarence Cert in our business and both a VAT and PAYE liability.
I have to agree with this, just because there is a liability to pay it, doesn't mean it's overdue. Any accounts based on the accruals principle will have certain balances that they charge to income statement but don't necessarily pay over immediately in cash. Like a credit card bill - you know you have to pay out the money some day, but you won't get a black mark just because you wait till payday to have enough cash to pay it, you usually have a bit of time between receiving the bill and the date payment is due. So it doesn't necessarily tell you anything as the balance sheet is at one particular point in time.
Any % of gross income will generally be the biggest % you could get. As you say orangeman, 5% of gross income will be a hell of a lot more than 5% of net profit. Take for example the accounts of Croke Park (can you get the Central Council's anywhere?) - 2007 gross income was about £44m, 5% of it about £2.2m. Profit was just over £3m. That 5% of turnover becomes over 66% of the profit.
[/b]
Now you're talking. F--k all ????? Hardly.
Quote from: Reillers on July 09, 2009, 05:31:03 PM
Quote from: heffo on July 09, 2009, 03:47:08 PM
Quote from: Reillers on July 09, 2009, 03:01:22 PM
Some people are so bitter.
Like I'm not exactly thrilled at the fact that they are excluding the ordinary club player from this, which would probably be one of my biggest problem with it. But there's no need for people to be so bitter about it, to begrudge them a pathetic 5%.
I mean if you're out of work, that, at least, €1000 at the end of the season, it will make a hell of a difference at the end of the year for the IC player, but not so much that it'll want them going mad for more.
They work hard all year round, the level of skill and fitness..etc improves year in year out, the off time in the season gets shorter and shorter, more is demanded from them each year. I can see why they're getting frustrated, especially when they aren't seeing the money go back in anywhere else. They work hard, 26 odd hours a week is a lot, and they probably feel they deserve some reward for that. Something to recognise their efforts.
Ya they're not forced to do it, but if that's the case we'll have no one left to play. They aren't forced to do it, but they do it because they love it, but they do have to sacrifice a lot. To deny that is unfair to them, especially when it's so clear to see, especially when you consider how demanding it's gotten over the last few years, it'd be hard to deny that they don't deserve what they're asking for.
I don't really back it, amateur is amateur, but I can see where they're coming from, and if you're paying clowns like Frank Murphy, I'd much rather see it go to the players. So whatever happens, I'm not going to begrudge them it. It's not like you can say they haven't earned it.
I mean, they give us so much entertainment all year round, they're labled as heroes. But when it comes to giving them recognition, then they're a joke?
People who have problems with the GPA, the problems are mostly with this part of them because they do do a lot of good work in other parts of the game. But the only way to stop the GPA is to slow them down, to slow down their momentum. If the GAA keep saying no, if they keep adding fuel to the fire then more and more momentum will continue to grow, and it's been building and building for a few years now. The players feel they've a right to be recognised. I see no problem in that if it'll stop the backlash which the GAA will face if they keep on provoking them.
At the end of the day 5% is f**k all, and I don't see the point in begruding them the tiny amount of money that they could possibly get. Especially if it'll prevent backlash in the future.
A few counter arguments:
1. I don't think anyone is 'begrudging' them anything - for me, it's wrong to have a hierarchy of GAA volunteer. The Elite IC player is a product of their clubs and is the product of hundreds of people's volunteer work. IC games are the window dressing of the GAA, not the be all and end all.
2. You say IC players get frustrated when they see the money the GAA earns not being re-invested anywhere else - that's plain ludicrous - the GAA accounts are available as a public document and anyone can where all the money is being re-invested in each county board - it's not as if Central council are like some African dictatorship all driving around in Rolls Royces
3. Personally speaking, I'm a club officer, a County board officer, a Juvenile coach, a player among other things in the GAA - I spend probably at least twice the 26 hours figure you quote involved in the GAA each week - I don't apply for a cent in expenses. When I bring the youngfellas from my team to a match in Parnell park or Croke park, I generally end up paying for half of their tickets, end up paying for their bus/luas etc because they're foreign nationals/their parents don't have the money etc - I don't mention it to anybody and don't give it a second thought.
4. The GPA are looking for a flat 5% with no breakdown of how they'll spend or re-distribute it - as another poster made the point - I wouldn't walk into a bank and ask for a large loan without a business plan.
1. That's what it sounds like from a lot of posts on here. And I'm sorry, but if you think there isn't all ready a divide between club and IC players then you're living up in the clouds, or in eh..Heffoland.
2. That's what they say, but they say they can't see it being put back in anywhere, even the 19mil that the GAA got off of the soccer and rugby, they say they can't see where it's being put back in, or at least so Sully says.
3. That's great for you, fair play and whatever, but not everyone can afford to not apply for a cent in expenses. And like I said a lot are now out of work.
They give their time with their club as much as the next person, and their not looking for anything for the work they do with their clubs, so comparing the two is at the end of the day pretty irrelevant, as in they're seperate.
They do that work, and then they've work with the IC team as well. The IC level is seperate all together.
At the moment they're not looking for it to go pro, could they in the future? Who knows, anything could happen, same way whose to say you wont get hit by a car when you leave your house.
It's pointless worrying about it imo. If it happens, then well, that's a bridge we need to jump off in the future. Imo right now, it's about getting recognised, which is something I think at this stage they deserve at least.
4. That I don't agree with, but I'm sure we'll see what they want as a breakdown soon enough.
My problem here is people are acting like they're getting millions each. At the least it's 1000, at the most, 2,500. It's not breaking the bank, it's not enough for them to go mad for money down the line. But it will make a difference to those out of work and such at the end of the year.
I'd much rather see something done for them instead of this money they want now, but as you have it it's not, and I think we risk a lot more by pissing them off then just recognising them now.
Sorry Donal just to clarify a couple of points.
1- If I go into a bank manager looking for finance- he'll ask me for a business plan. The GPA have none as they were requested by the GAA to provide one. So we're supposed to give them millions of euro with not even the slightest indication of where it is going.
2- If the lads want to be professionals there is an avenue to pursue that.
3- You can't be a little bit amateur- you're either professional or amateur -not both.
4- The recession is not exclusive to GAA players or just inter county players. It may be a surprise to inter county players- but even junior players can lose their jobs as well. And lets remember they have nothing like the profile of IC players. I know 3 inter county hurlers who got jobs in the last couple of months they never would have got being ordinary club players
5- They can walk away anytime they wish-there are no contracts involved. 5% this year - is 10% next year and so and so on. And anyone who doesn't believe that has obviosuly never looked at their own employment contracts.
They either want to be members of the association or they don't and if they don't thats fair enough.
Players will do whatever it takes to get deal: Brogan
Thursday July 09 2009
DUBLIN stars Alan Brogan and Barry Cahill have backed the GPA bid for funding and recognition from the GAA.
The two players and their team-mates will abide by the GPA blackout of TV interviews for Sunday's Leinster final and Brogan warned: "The players won't be afraid to do whatever we have to do to make sure there is a deal done."
Speaking on the issue, Brogan said: "It's about player welfare now. Player welfare is not about two tickets for a match or a meal after training. In this climate, it's about education programmes for players, looking after guys that are injured.
"Despite what the GAA might say, they don't have these player-welfare programmes in place. If they were that serious about it, they would have had them in place by now, so I think they need to pass it on to the GPA.
"The GPA are the experts at it and they have the time and the want to do this kind of stuff, whereas the GAA obviously have a lot of other bigger things to be looking after in their view, so I think it's important a deal is done.
"The players are sick to the teeth of it now. They just want to see an end to it, put it to bed. Let's just deal with it and get rid of it. It's been escalated with the media thing on Sunday. Obviously that's as far as I hope it goes. I hope there is a deal done shortly but the players won't be afraid to do whatever we have to do to make sure there is a deal done."
Barry Cahill echoed those sentiments, saying: "I think all the players are behind the GPA in what they're trying to do. It makes complete sense if the two parties come together and come to some arrangement.
"The GPA have put in a lot of hard work over the last 10 years and they've a lot of expertise that I'm sure they can bring to the party, so hopefully things won't drag on too much longer."
- Liam Kelly
They can go & shi&e as well..
Quote from: orangeman on July 09, 2009, 09:21:02 PM
Players will do whatever it takes to get deal: Brogan
Thursday July 09 2009
DUBLIN stars Alan Brogan and Barry Cahill have backed the GPA bid for funding and recognition from the GAA.
The two players and their team-mates will abide by the GPA blackout of TV interviews for Sunday's Leinster final and Brogan warned: "The players won't be afraid to do whatever we have to do to make sure there is a deal done."
Speaking on the issue, Brogan said: "It's about player welfare now. Player welfare is not about two tickets for a match or a meal after training. In this climate, it's about education programmes for players, looking after guys that are injured.
"Despite what the GAA might say, they don't have these player-welfare programmes in place. If they were that serious about it, they would have had them in place by now, so I think they need to pass it on to the GPA.
"The GPA are the experts at it and they have the time and the want to do this kind of stuff, whereas the GAA obviously have a lot of other bigger things to be looking after in their view, so I think it's important a deal is done.
"The players are sick to the teeth of it now. They just want to see an end to it, put it to bed. Let's just deal with it and get rid of it. It's been escalated with the media thing on Sunday. Obviously that's as far as I hope it goes. I hope there is a deal done shortly but the players won't be afraid to do whatever we have to do to make sure there is a deal done."
Barry Cahill echoed those sentiments, saying: "I think all the players are behind the GPA in what they're trying to do. It makes complete sense if the two parties come together and come to some arrangement.
"The GPA have put in a lot of hard work over the last 10 years and they've a lot of expertise that I'm sure they can bring to the party, so hopefully things won't drag on too much longer."
- Liam Kelly
Bag a'shite from two wannabes.
Quote from: Reillers on July 09, 2009, 05:31:03 PM
Quote from: heffo on July 09, 2009, 03:47:08 PM
Quote from: Reillers on July 09, 2009, 03:01:22 PM
Some people are so bitter.
Like I'm not exactly thrilled at the fact that they are excluding the ordinary club player from this, which would probably be one of my biggest problem with it. But there's no need for people to be so bitter about it, to begrudge them a pathetic 5%.
I mean if you're out of work, that, at least, €1000 at the end of the season, it will make a hell of a difference at the end of the year for the IC player, but not so much that it'll want them going mad for more.
They work hard all year round, the level of skill and fitness..etc improves year in year out, the off time in the season gets shorter and shorter, more is demanded from them each year. I can see why they're getting frustrated, especially when they aren't seeing the money go back in anywhere else. They work hard, 26 odd hours a week is a lot, and they probably feel they deserve some reward for that. Something to recognise their efforts.
Ya they're not forced to do it, but if that's the case we'll have no one left to play. They aren't forced to do it, but they do it because they love it, but they do have to sacrifice a lot. To deny that is unfair to them, especially when it's so clear to see, especially when you consider how demanding it's gotten over the last few years, it'd be hard to deny that they don't deserve what they're asking for.
I don't really back it, amateur is amateur, but I can see where they're coming from, and if you're paying clowns like Frank Murphy, I'd much rather see it go to the players. So whatever happens, I'm not going to begrudge them it. It's not like you can say they haven't earned it.
I mean, they give us so much entertainment all year round, they're labled as heroes. But when it comes to giving them recognition, then they're a joke?
People who have problems with the GPA, the problems are mostly with this part of them because they do do a lot of good work in other parts of the game. But the only way to stop the GPA is to slow them down, to slow down their momentum. If the GAA keep saying no, if they keep adding fuel to the fire then more and more momentum will continue to grow, and it's been building and building for a few years now. The players feel they've a right to be recognised. I see no problem in that if it'll stop the backlash which the GAA will face if they keep on provoking them.
At the end of the day 5% is f**k all, and I don't see the point in begruding them the tiny amount of money that they could possibly get. Especially if it'll prevent backlash in the future.
A few counter arguments:
1. I don't think anyone is 'begrudging' them anything - for me, it's wrong to have a hierarchy of GAA volunteer. The Elite IC player is a product of their clubs and is the product of hundreds of people's volunteer work. IC games are the window dressing of the GAA, not the be all and end all.
2. You say IC players get frustrated when they see the money the GAA earns not being re-invested anywhere else - that's plain ludicrous - the GAA accounts are available as a public document and anyone can where all the money is being re-invested in each county board - it's not as if Central council are like some African dictatorship all driving around in Rolls Royces
3. Personally speaking, I'm a club officer, a County board officer, a Juvenile coach, a player among other things in the GAA - I spend probably at least twice the 26 hours figure you quote involved in the GAA each week - I don't apply for a cent in expenses. When I bring the youngfellas from my team to a match in Parnell park or Croke park, I generally end up paying for half of their tickets, end up paying for their bus/luas etc because they're foreign nationals/their parents don't have the money etc - I don't mention it to anybody and don't give it a second thought.
4. The GPA are looking for a flat 5% with no breakdown of how they'll spend or re-distribute it - as another poster made the point - I wouldn't walk into a bank and ask for a large loan without a business plan.
1. That's what it sounds like from a lot of posts on here. And I'm sorry, but if you think there isn't all ready a divide between club and IC players then you're living up in the clouds, or in eh..Heffoland.
2. That's what they say, but they say they can't see it being put back in anywhere, even the 19mil that the GAA got off of the soccer and rugby, they say they can't see where it's being put back in, or at least so Sully says.
3. That's great for you, fair play and whatever, but not everyone can afford to not apply for a cent in expenses. And like I said a lot are now out of work.
They give their time with their club as much as the next person, and their not looking for anything for the work they do with their clubs, so comparing the two is at the end of the day pretty irrelevant, as in they're seperate.
They do that work, and then they've work with the IC team as well. The IC level is seperate all together.
At the moment they're not looking for it to go pro, could they in the future? Who knows, anything could happen, same way whose to say you wont get hit by a car when you leave your house.
It's pointless worrying about it imo. If it happens, then well, that's a bridge we need to jump off in the future. Imo right now, it's about getting recognised, which is something I think at this stage they deserve at least.
4. That I don't agree with, but I'm sure we'll see what they want as a breakdown soon enough.
My problem here is people are acting like they're getting millions each. At the least it's 1000, at the most, 2,500. It's not breaking the bank, it's not enough for them to go mad for money down the line. But it will make a difference to those out of work and such at the end of the year.
I'd much rather see something done for them instead of this money they want now, but as you have it it's not, and I think we risk a lot more by pissing them off then just recognising them now.
Reillers, I was confused reading your post, but I think I get it now. You're mixing up the Grants issue with this latest demand, which in no way is a way of covering the grants in another form, no siree, no way.
This 5% (or over €2 million euro) is for the GPA to promote 'welfare' plans, of some sort that we haven't seen. It's not the grant.
So while I'm okay-ish with the Government giving County Players a grant as cultural assets, I would be completely against the GAA giving the GPA (and it's background company) any amount of money to do with as they wish. Let them come into the fold, and present their plans like every other branch of the GAA, and if it's a valid plan, I've no doubt the GAA would invest in it.
Why are the GPA so set on staying out of the GAA per se? It's not like it's a private money making scheme for elite players now is it??
Quote from: orangeman on July 09, 2009, 09:21:02 PM
Players will do whatever it takes to get deal: Brogan
Thursday July 09 2009
DUBLIN stars Alan Brogan and Barry Cahill have backed the GPA bid for funding and recognition from the GAA.
The two players and their team-mates will abide by the GPA blackout of TV interviews for Sunday's Leinster final and Brogan warned: "The players won't be afraid to do whatever we have to do to make sure there is a deal done."
Speaking on the issue, Brogan said: "It's about player welfare now. Player welfare is not about two tickets for a match or a meal after training. In this climate, it's about education programmes for players, looking after guys that are injured.
"Despite what the GAA might say, they don't have these player-welfare programmes in place. If they were that serious about it, they would have had them in place by now, so I think they need to pass it on to the GPA.
"The GPA are the experts at it and they have the time and the want to do this kind of stuff, whereas the GAA obviously have a lot of other bigger things to be looking after in their view, so I think it's important a deal is done.
"The players are sick to the teeth of it now. They just want to see an end to it, put it to bed. Let's just deal with it and get rid of it. It's been escalated with the media thing on Sunday. Obviously that's as far as I hope it goes. I hope there is a deal done shortly but the players won't be afraid to do whatever we have to do to make sure there is a deal done."
Barry Cahill echoed those sentiments, saying: "I think all the players are behind the GPA in what they're trying to do. It makes complete sense if the two parties come together and come to some arrangement.
"The GPA have put in a lot of hard work over the last 10 years and they've a lot of expertise that I'm sure they can bring to the party, so hopefully things won't drag on too much longer."
- Liam Kelly
Very disappointed with the comments above from Dublin players. If the GPA become a valid bona fida part of the association I think the GAA will fund whatever activities they want within reason. But demanding percenatges like other professional organisations is an outrageous demand. We are not a professional organisation.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 09, 2009, 07:22:59 PM
Quote from: Reillers on July 09, 2009, 05:31:03 PM
Quote from: heffo on July 09, 2009, 03:47:08 PM
Quote from: Reillers on July 09, 2009, 03:01:22 PM
Some people are so bitter.
Like I'm not exactly thrilled at the fact that they are excluding the ordinary club player from this, which would probably be one of my biggest problem with it. But there's no need for people to be so bitter about it, to begrudge them a pathetic 5%.
I mean if you're out of work, that, at least, €1000 at the end of the season, it will make a hell of a difference at the end of the year for the IC player, but not so much that it'll want them going mad for more.
They work hard all year round, the level of skill and fitness..etc improves year in year out, the off time in the season gets shorter and shorter, more is demanded from them each year. I can see why they're getting frustrated, especially when they aren't seeing the money go back in anywhere else. They work hard, 26 odd hours a week is a lot, and they probably feel they deserve some reward for that. Something to recognise their efforts.
Ya they're not forced to do it, but if that's the case we'll have no one left to play. They aren't forced to do it, but they do it because they love it, but they do have to sacrifice a lot. To deny that is unfair to them, especially when it's so clear to see, especially when you consider how demanding it's gotten over the last few years, it'd be hard to deny that they don't deserve what they're asking for.
I don't really back it, amateur is amateur, but I can see where they're coming from, and if you're paying clowns like Frank Murphy, I'd much rather see it go to the players. So whatever happens, I'm not going to begrudge them it. It's not like you can say they haven't earned it.
I mean, they give us so much entertainment all year round, they're labled as heroes. But when it comes to giving them recognition, then they're a joke?
People who have problems with the GPA, the problems are mostly with this part of them because they do do a lot of good work in other parts of the game. But the only way to stop the GPA is to slow them down, to slow down their momentum. If the GAA keep saying no, if they keep adding fuel to the fire then more and more momentum will continue to grow, and it's been building and building for a few years now. The players feel they've a right to be recognised. I see no problem in that if it'll stop the backlash which the GAA will face if they keep on provoking them.
At the end of the day 5% is f**k all, and I don't see the point in begruding them the tiny amount of money that they could possibly get. Especially if it'll prevent backlash in the future.
A few counter arguments:
1. I don't think anyone is 'begrudging' them anything - for me, it's wrong to have a hierarchy of GAA volunteer. The Elite IC player is a product of their clubs and is the product of hundreds of people's volunteer work. IC games are the window dressing of the GAA, not the be all and end all.
2. You say IC players get frustrated when they see the money the GAA earns not being re-invested anywhere else - that's plain ludicrous - the GAA accounts are available as a public document and anyone can where all the money is being re-invested in each county board - it's not as if Central council are like some African dictatorship all driving around in Rolls Royces
3. Personally speaking, I'm a club officer, a County board officer, a Juvenile coach, a player among other things in the GAA - I spend probably at least twice the 26 hours figure you quote involved in the GAA each week - I don't apply for a cent in expenses. When I bring the youngfellas from my team to a match in Parnell park or Croke park, I generally end up paying for half of their tickets, end up paying for their bus/luas etc because they're foreign nationals/their parents don't have the money etc - I don't mention it to anybody and don't give it a second thought.
4. The GPA are looking for a flat 5% with no breakdown of how they'll spend or re-distribute it - as another poster made the point - I wouldn't walk into a bank and ask for a large loan without a business plan.
1. That's what it sounds like from a lot of posts on here. And I'm sorry, but if you think there isn't all ready a divide between club and IC players then you're living up in the clouds, or in eh..Heffoland.
2. That's what they say, but they say they can't see it being put back in anywhere, even the 19mil that the GAA got off of the soccer and rugby, they say they can't see where it's being put back in, or at least so Sully says.
3. That's great for you, fair play and whatever, but not everyone can afford to not apply for a cent in expenses. And like I said a lot are now out of work.
They give their time with their club as much as the next person, and their not looking for anything for the work they do with their clubs, so comparing the two is at the end of the day pretty irrelevant, as in they're seperate.
They do that work, and then they've work with the IC team as well. The IC level is seperate all together.
At the moment they're not looking for it to go pro, could they in the future? Who knows, anything could happen, same way whose to say you wont get hit by a car when you leave your house.
It's pointless worrying about it imo. If it happens, then well, that's a bridge we need to jump off in the future. Imo right now, it's about getting recognised, which is something I think at this stage they deserve at least.
4. That I don't agree with, but I'm sure we'll see what they want as a breakdown soon enough.
My problem here is people are acting like they're getting millions each. At the least it's 1000, at the most, 2,500. It's not breaking the bank, it's not enough for them to go mad for money down the line. But it will make a difference to those out of work and such at the end of the year.
I'd much rather see something done for them instead of this money they want now, but as you have it it's not, and I think we risk a lot more by pissing them off then just recognising them now.
Sorry Donal just to clarify a couple of points.
1- If I go into a bank manager looking for finance- he'll ask me for a business plan. The GPA have none as they were requested by the GAA to provide one. So we're supposed to give them millions of euro with not even the slightest indication of where it is going.
2- If the lads want to be professionals there is an avenue to pursue that.
3- You can't be a little bit amateur- you're either professional or amateur -not both.
4- The recession is not exclusive to GAA players or just inter county players. It may be a surprise to inter county players- but even junior players can lose their jobs as well. And lets remember they have nothing like the profile of IC players. I know 3 inter county hurlers who got jobs in the last couple of months they never would have got being ordinary club players
5- They can walk away anytime they wish-there are no contracts involved. 5% this year - is 10% next year and so and so on. And anyone who doesn't believe that has obviosuly never looked at their own employment contracts.
They either want to be members of the association or they don't and if they don't thats fair enough.
Oh so you can't read.
I've said, if you took a second to actually bother skimming over my post (reading it I know is clearly beyond you)
1. I've agreed with, I've said one of problems is the fact that they had no plan laid out.
2. I've said nothing about anyone being professional, neither have they. But the likes of Derval O Rourke and all the other athletes who aren't professional get grants, so the govt will make a mistake if they single out the GAA when it comes to handing out grants.
3. Amateur is amateur, that's what I said, exactly what I said. I said I don't fully agree with it, but I get where they are coming from and that it'd be better off if we bit the bullet, and that was agreed to instead of fueling more fire, adding more momentum to them.
4. The recession isn't exclusive, obviously, no one said that, but if you put in as much time as they did at IC scene and you were unemployed, that 1/2000 grand will mean a lot at the end of the year, but in the same way, it's not going to make that much of a difference, it's not going to let them have a taste of the ridiculous soccer lifestyle. No massive house or fancy car will come out of €2,000.
5. And ya I agree with what you're saying. You'd know that if you had actually bothered to read the post.
But like I said right now the GAA are in control, and if the GPA and GAA do come to an agreement the GPA will have control of the momentum, instead of continuing to provoke them. Like I said, it'd be better to agree to the fixed precentage of 5%, no more, no less. If they act for more in the future, it'll just show them as being greedy, the 5% is about wanting recognition more then anything, or so they say. If they look to increase it in the future then it'd show them to be looking for money and being greedy..etc. The only way to stop the GPA is to give them a bit of rope to work with. If the GAA agree to this, they'll have the GPA under their umbrella and then they can hopefully get rid of Dessie Farrell, who we all know is the main problem.
Ignoring this, imo, will do more harm then good. If they strike, they'll have the upper hand, and the GAA will have no say.
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 09, 2009, 11:09:37 PM
Quote from: Reillers on July 09, 2009, 05:31:03 PM
Quote from: heffo on July 09, 2009, 03:47:08 PM
Quote from: Reillers on July 09, 2009, 03:01:22 PM
Some people are so bitter.
Like I'm not exactly thrilled at the fact that they are excluding the ordinary club player from this, which would probably be one of my biggest problem with it. But there's no need for people to be so bitter about it, to begrudge them a pathetic 5%.
I mean if you're out of work, that, at least, €1000 at the end of the season, it will make a hell of a difference at the end of the year for the IC player, but not so much that it'll want them going mad for more.
They work hard all year round, the level of skill and fitness..etc improves year in year out, the off time in the season gets shorter and shorter, more is demanded from them each year. I can see why they're getting frustrated, especially when they aren't seeing the money go back in anywhere else. They work hard, 26 odd hours a week is a lot, and they probably feel they deserve some reward for that. Something to recognise their efforts.
Ya they're not forced to do it, but if that's the case we'll have no one left to play. They aren't forced to do it, but they do it because they love it, but they do have to sacrifice a lot. To deny that is unfair to them, especially when it's so clear to see, especially when you consider how demanding it's gotten over the last few years, it'd be hard to deny that they don't deserve what they're asking for.
I don't really back it, amateur is amateur, but I can see where they're coming from, and if you're paying clowns like Frank Murphy, I'd much rather see it go to the players. So whatever happens, I'm not going to begrudge them it. It's not like you can say they haven't earned it.
I mean, they give us so much entertainment all year round, they're labled as heroes. But when it comes to giving them recognition, then they're a joke?
People who have problems with the GPA, the problems are mostly with this part of them because they do do a lot of good work in other parts of the game. But the only way to stop the GPA is to slow them down, to slow down their momentum. If the GAA keep saying no, if they keep adding fuel to the fire then more and more momentum will continue to grow, and it's been building and building for a few years now. The players feel they've a right to be recognised. I see no problem in that if it'll stop the backlash which the GAA will face if they keep on provoking them.
At the end of the day 5% is f**k all, and I don't see the point in begruding them the tiny amount of money that they could possibly get. Especially if it'll prevent backlash in the future.
A few counter arguments:
1. I don't think anyone is 'begrudging' them anything - for me, it's wrong to have a hierarchy of GAA volunteer. The Elite IC player is a product of their clubs and is the product of hundreds of people's volunteer work. IC games are the window dressing of the GAA, not the be all and end all.
2. You say IC players get frustrated when they see the money the GAA earns not being re-invested anywhere else - that's plain ludicrous - the GAA accounts are available as a public document and anyone can where all the money is being re-invested in each county board - it's not as if Central council are like some African dictatorship all driving around in Rolls Royces
3. Personally speaking, I'm a club officer, a County board officer, a Juvenile coach, a player among other things in the GAA - I spend probably at least twice the 26 hours figure you quote involved in the GAA each week - I don't apply for a cent in expenses. When I bring the youngfellas from my team to a match in Parnell park or Croke park, I generally end up paying for half of their tickets, end up paying for their bus/luas etc because they're foreign nationals/their parents don't have the money etc - I don't mention it to anybody and don't give it a second thought.
4. The GPA are looking for a flat 5% with no breakdown of how they'll spend or re-distribute it - as another poster made the point - I wouldn't walk into a bank and ask for a large loan without a business plan.
1. That's what it sounds like from a lot of posts on here. And I'm sorry, but if you think there isn't all ready a divide between club and IC players then you're living up in the clouds, or in eh..Heffoland.
2. That's what they say, but they say they can't see it being put back in anywhere, even the 19mil that the GAA got off of the soccer and rugby, they say they can't see where it's being put back in, or at least so Sully says.
3. That's great for you, fair play and whatever, but not everyone can afford to not apply for a cent in expenses. And like I said a lot are now out of work.
They give their time with their club as much as the next person, and their not looking for anything for the work they do with their clubs, so comparing the two is at the end of the day pretty irrelevant, as in they're seperate.
They do that work, and then they've work with the IC team as well. The IC level is seperate all together.
At the moment they're not looking for it to go pro, could they in the future? Who knows, anything could happen, same way whose to say you wont get hit by a car when you leave your house.
It's pointless worrying about it imo. If it happens, then well, that's a bridge we need to jump off in the future. Imo right now, it's about getting recognised, which is something I think at this stage they deserve at least.
4. That I don't agree with, but I'm sure we'll see what they want as a breakdown soon enough.
My problem here is people are acting like they're getting millions each. At the least it's 1000, at the most, 2,500. It's not breaking the bank, it's not enough for them to go mad for money down the line. But it will make a difference to those out of work and such at the end of the year.
I'd much rather see something done for them instead of this money they want now, but as you have it it's not, and I think we risk a lot more by pissing them off then just recognising them now.
Reillers, I was confused reading your post, but I think I get it now. You're mixing up the Grants issue with this latest demand, which in no way is a way of covering the grants in another form, no siree, no way.
This 5% (or over €2 million euro) is for the GPA to promote 'welfare' plans, of some sort that we haven't seen. It's not the grant.
So while I'm okay-ish with the Government giving County Players a grant as cultural assets, I would be completely against the GAA giving the GPA (and it's background company) any amount of money to do with as they wish. Let them come into the fold, and present their plans like every other branch of the GAA, and if it's a valid plan, I've no doubt the GAA would invest in it.
Why are the GPA so set on staying out of the GAA per se? It's not like it's a private money making scheme for elite players now is it??
No I'm not, they are two seperate issues, the GPA are looking for 5% off the GAA, and then there's the grants off the govt, grants which they give everyone from runners to rugby players. My point with them is that they shouldn't just exclude the GAA from that because that would be wrong and infurriate the GPA.
And my point with the GAA and their 5% was they should recognise it, take control instead of running the risk of a backlash and possibly a strike.
And I'm, like you, ok-ish about the grants, I'm not too thrilled about the GAA, but like I said I can see why they're doing what they're doing, the GAA has messed them around for long enough, and if they don't recognise them then they could risk a complete strike. Agreeing to it is damaging in some peoples view, but imo worse damage could be done if they add more fuel to the fire by denying them what they think they've earned.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 09, 2009, 11:22:42 PM
Quote from: orangeman on July 09, 2009, 09:21:02 PM
Players will do whatever it takes to get deal: Brogan
Thursday July 09 2009
DUBLIN stars Alan Brogan and Barry Cahill have backed the GPA bid for funding and recognition from the GAA.
The two players and their team-mates will abide by the GPA blackout of TV interviews for Sunday's Leinster final and Brogan warned: "The players won't be afraid to do whatever we have to do to make sure there is a deal done."
Speaking on the issue, Brogan said: "It's about player welfare now. Player welfare is not about two tickets for a match or a meal after training. In this climate, it's about education programmes for players, looking after guys that are injured.
"Despite what the GAA might say, they don't have these player-welfare programmes in place. If they were that serious about it, they would have had them in place by now, so I think they need to pass it on to the GPA.
"The GPA are the experts at it and they have the time and the want to do this kind of stuff, whereas the GAA obviously have a lot of other bigger things to be looking after in their view, so I think it's important a deal is done.
"The players are sick to the teeth of it now. They just want to see an end to it, put it to bed. Let's just deal with it and get rid of it. It's been escalated with the media thing on Sunday. Obviously that's as far as I hope it goes. I hope there is a deal done shortly but the players won't be afraid to do whatever we have to do to make sure there is a deal done."
Barry Cahill echoed those sentiments, saying: "I think all the players are behind the GPA in what they're trying to do. It makes complete sense if the two parties come together and come to some arrangement.
"The GPA have put in a lot of hard work over the last 10 years and they've a lot of expertise that I'm sure they can bring to the party, so hopefully things won't drag on too much longer."
- Liam Kelly
Very disappointed with the comments above from Dublin players. If the GPA become a valid bona fida part of the association I think the GAA will fund whatever activities they want within reason. But demanding percenatges like other professional organisations is an outrageous demand. We are not a professional organisation.
What about the rest that he says. You think that this is them looking for professional status, it's not. Can you not give them the benefit of the doubt. THey've said they aren't interested in it becoming professional, why can't you leave it at that.
You don't trust Dessie Farrell, fine. But there are a lot of other players on the GPA, decent honest players, you respect them? You can't believe them? Take you're word for it. I mean there's no need to be so bitter about it. It's a pathetic 5%, it's nothing. It'll make a difference all right if they're out of a job or short on cash, but despite being able to buy more gifts at Christmas, or get the roof fixed..etc. It's not going to make any difference really. It's nothing. It's about recognition.
They've just said how though the GAA say it, there's nothing to help with player welfare.
Now forget everything, forget how much you hate the GPA (who by the by actually do some good work, I'm no fan of the GPA, but when it comes to views on the GPA, people like you are just infuriating.)
"Player welfare is not about two tickets for a match or a meal after training. In this climate, it's about education programmes for players, looking after guys that are injured."
Now it's a simple question, yes or no, do you agree with the statement put above by one of your own?
Now they're not all, the hundred odd of them, greedy f**kers now are they? You can't give them, anyone of there many members the benefit of the doubt?
No I don't agree with their statement lock stock and barrell. If either Barry or Alan feel the need to vacate their position in the near future due to the lack of recognition that is entirely their choice. i won't be hanging out the banners to bring them back. There are 180 clubs in Dublin we will find another corner forward and wing back if necessary.
You've glossed over all the other issues as usual. How much player welfare does the club volunteer of club player get when they lose their job? Thats right none.
Its 5% and 50k per month. That probably in and around 5m. Don't forget its 5% of all revenue streams not just gate receipts so it includes TV monies as well. So if you consider at least 5m a pittance in a recession considering their is 25m per annum spent on all county teams, you must be Denis O Brien in disguise.
What are they going to do with these monies Reillers? the Gaa has agreed to fund thier activities if they come under the umbrella of the association but no of course they have to stay outside. They have given no indication what they will do with the money- how it will be dispersed etc etc. Where is the accountability of this association that has more secrecy about it than The Stone masons.
Quote from: Reillers on July 10, 2009, 12:40:47 AM
What about the rest that he says. You think that this is them looking for professional status, it's not. Can you not give them the benefit of the doubt. THey've said they aren't interested in it becoming professional, why can't you leave it at that.
You don't trust Dessie Farrell, fine. But there are a lot of other players on the GPA, decent honest players, you respect them? You can't believe them? Take you're word for it. I mean there's no need to be so bitter about it. It's a pathetic 5%, it's nothing. It'll make a difference all right if they're out of a job or short on cash, but despite being able to buy more gifts at Christmas, or get the roof fixed..etc. It's not going to make any difference really. It's nothing. It's about recognition.
They've just said how though the GAA say it, there's nothing to help with player welfare.
Now forget everything, forget how much you hate the GPA (who by the by actually do some good work, I'm no fan of the GPA, but when it comes to views on the GPA, people like you are just infuriating.)
"Player welfare is not about two tickets for a match or a meal after training. In this climate, it's about education programmes for players, looking after guys that are injured."
Now it's a simple question, yes or no, do you agree with the statement put above by one of your own?
Now they're not all, the hundred odd of them, greedy f**kers now are they? You can't give them, anyone of there many members the benefit of the doubt?
Whilst I agree with their sentiments, and wholeheartedly agree that the GAA should look after their own if they're injured, why should the GAA be doing job of FAS on the behalf of the elite players? I'm sure there's at least one person on every County Board in the country with the contact details for Christy Cooney - if there are lads that badly stuck for a bit of retraining I'm sure our esteemed president would be decent enough to point the lads in the right direction on who would be best to talk to get the thing fast tracked.
If that's not their thing, there are plenty of Universities and I.T's in the Country that would be mad keen to get the lads through the door for a year or 2 so they can get a bit more education - it's not exactly unprecedented at the minute.
Quote"Player welfare is not about two tickets for a match or a meal after training. In this climate, it's about education programmes for players, looking after guys that are injured."
Now it's a simple question, yes or no, do you agree with the statement put above by one of your own?
Club players don't get tickets, meals after training, education programmes for players who are out of work, and "looking after players that are injured" is a very open ended comment so who know wtf is being implied but club players get insurance but nowhere near the same medical back up that an intercounty player gets when he gets injured.
I don't know about Cahill but does Brogan not make 6 figure sums from his involvement in the GAA?
Where do these boys get off.
The GAA head honcho's better show some leadership or as I've said before they'll rip the social contract in two and the GAA will be changed forever and it won't be for the better. I'm sure that I'll be able to fill my time some other way but what I won't be doing is playing any part in a GAA where an elite think they will set the agenda for the rest of us when that same group of elites ignore the volume of voluntary individual effort given by so many to help them develop to that level never mind what that same voluntary effort delivers to so many individuals and communities across the land away from the glare of the cameras. As I have also said before, I know very few kids that have came through the GAA and turn out to be arseholes. Take that accross the country and that is a serious impact on the society that we live in. To define the GAA as purely a sporting orginisation detracts from it's most important element and that is to develop healthy communities. Rip the social contact and watch the culture of volunteerism wain and then where will we be? f**k I can't control my rage when I think of what these greedy self centred scumbags play their subtle media game as they attempt to chip away at the ethos of the GAA. A wee threat here, a wee demand there. Well I've had it. It is time for all out war. It is time for these boys to hear the voice of the volunteers for a change. It's time our threats and demands had a voice
aggghhhhhhh........ >:(
Quote from: INDIANA on July 10, 2009, 01:00:01 AM
No I don't agree with their statement lock stock and barrell. If either Barry or Alan feel the need to vacate their position in the near future due to the lack of recognition that is entirely their choice. i won't be hanging out the banners to bring them back. There are 180 clubs in Dublin we will find another corner forward and wing back if necessary.
You've glossed over all the other issues as usual. How much player welfare does the club volunteer of club player get when they lose their job? Thats right none.
Its 5% and 50k per month. That probably in and around 5m. Don't forget its 5% of all revenue streams not just gate receipts so it includes TV monies as well. So if you consider at least 5m a pittance in a recession considering their is 25m per annum spent on all county teams, you must be Denis O Brien in disguise.
What are they going to do with these monies Reillers? the Gaa has agreed to fund thier activities if they come under the umbrella of the association but no of course they have to stay outside. They have given no indication what they will do with the money- how it will be dispersed etc etc. Where is the accountability of this association that has more secrecy about it than The Stone masons.
Of course you don't, it's just take, take, take with you. They give us enough entertainment all season that I'll get over the fact that they want to be recognised, even though I mightn't fully back what they're saying.
They work hard, (no they don't have to but they do anyway) a small bit of recognition isn't too much to ask for is it? Do they not deserve that?
And when I asked you about the statement..
Now I've said that my biggest problem with them is the fact that the ordinary club player gets left out, but if you still believe that one is the same as the other, then you're living on a cloud, they are both on different levels. They've been seperated for a while now.
IC level demands more time, more sacrifice..etc now more then ever, and with it comes pressure on a scale that you'll rarely see at club level,(which comes from exposure and playing for your county, far outweighs that of a club player. Now you've got the pressure to preform for your club and all that, but that compared to Joe Canning? There's another level of pressure completely. Now we can deny that all we like, but we know it's true. I mean I get nervous before games, and that's without 80,000 people, cameras and media attention as well.
That and the fact that while I put in as much effort into training as I can, and everyone else does, while clubs are putting in as much of an effort as the IC sides with regard to all aspects of training, but there's still a massive difference between the two. If there wasnt then everybody would be playing at intercounty level, that's not taking anything away from the clubs, but it's just the way it is. It's fact.
Now I don't like it anymore then you do, and that grand or so would be pretty useful later on in the year,to any club player, or even better put into a scheme that helped players out of work, but it's happening and it's here. But just because I don't fully agree with it, or because I'm not going to get that 1/2 grand at the end of the season, doesn't mean that I'm going to be selfish and bitter enough to begrudge the IC players it.
And no amount of whining from you is going to stop the fact that this is happening.
Quote from: Reillers on July 10, 2009, 01:28:14 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on July 10, 2009, 01:00:01 AM
No I don't agree with their statement lock stock and barrell. If either Barry or Alan feel the need to vacate their position in the near future due to the lack of recognition that is entirely their choice. i won't be hanging out the banners to bring them back. There are 180 clubs in Dublin we will find another corner forward and wing back if necessary.
You've glossed over all the other issues as usual. How much player welfare does the club volunteer of club player get when they lose their job? Thats right none.
Its 5% and 50k per month. That probably in and around 5m. Don't forget its 5% of all revenue streams not just gate receipts so it includes TV monies as well. So if you consider at least 5m a pittance in a recession considering their is 25m per annum spent on all county teams, you must be Denis O Brien in disguise.
What are they going to do with these monies Reillers? the Gaa has agreed to fund thier activities if they come under the umbrella of the association but no of course they have to stay outside. They have given no indication what they will do with the money- how it will be dispersed etc etc. Where is the accountability of this association that has more secrecy about it than The Stone masons.
Of course you don't, it's just take, take, take with you. They give us enough entertainment all season that I'll get over the fact that they want to be recognised, even though I mightn't fully back what they're saying.
They work hard, (no they don't have to but they do anyway) a small bit of recognition isn't too much to ask for is it? Do they not deserve that?
And when I asked you about the statement..
Now I've said that my biggest problem with them is the fact that the ordinary club player gets left out, but if you still believe that one is the same as the other, then you're living on a cloud, they are both on different levels. They've been seperated for a while now.
IC level demands more time, more sacrifice..etc now more then ever, and with it comes pressure on a scale that you'll rarely see at club level,(which comes from exposure and playing for your county, far outweighs that of a club player. Now you've got the pressure to preform for your club and all that, but that compared to Joe Canning? There's another level of pressure completely. Now we can deny that all we like, but we know it's true. I mean I get nervous before games, and that's without 80,000 people, cameras and media attention as well.
That and the fact that while I put in as much effort into training as I can, and everyone else does, while clubs are putting in as much of an effort as the IC sides with regard to all aspects of training, but there's still a massive difference between the two. If there wasnt then everybody would be playing at intercounty level, that's not taking anything away from the clubs, but it's just the way it is. It's fact.
Now I don't like it anymore then you do, and that grand or so would be pretty useful later on in the year,to any club player, or even better put into a scheme that helped players out of work, but it's happening and it's here. But just because I don't fully agree with it, or because I'm not going to get that 1/2 grand at the end of the season, doesn't mean that I'm going to be selfish and bitter enough to begrudge the IC players it.
And no amount of whining from you is going to stop the fact that this is happening.
Reillers 2 friends of mine are training for Ironman competitions. They train twice a day 6 days a week And they manage to work too. Oh and they have families as well. would you say the average inter county player makes more of a sacrifice ? They don't - they would train less than these guys.
How much money are these 2 guys looking for? None. Why because its a personal choice- ie an amateur sport. Same as the GAA.
Same as the Gaa- no-one puts a gun to an inter county player head to play. Its a personal choice and they can walk away anytime they like.
Only one person whingeing here and it isn't me.
Quote from: theskull1 on July 10, 2009, 01:15:33 AM
Quote"Player welfare is not about two tickets for a match or a meal after training. In this climate, it's about education programmes for players, looking after guys that are injured."
Now it's a simple question, yes or no, do you agree with the statement put above by one of your own?
Club players don't get tickets, meals after training, education programmes for players who are out of work, and "looking after players that are injured" is a very open ended comment so who know wtf is being implied but club players get insurance but nowhere near the same medical back up that an intercounty player gets when he gets injured.
I don't know about Cahill but does Brogan not make 6 figure sums from his involvement in the GAA?
Where do these boys get off.
The GAA head honcho's better show some leadership or as I've said before they'll rip the social contract in two and the GAA will be changed forever and it won't be for the better. I'm sure that I'll be able to fill my time some other way but what I won't be doing is playing any part in a GAA where an elite think they will set the agenda for the rest of us when that same group of elites ignore the volume of voluntary individual effort given by so many to help them develop to that level never mind what that same voluntary effort delivers to so many individuals and communities across the land away from the glare of the cameras. As I have also said before, I know very few kids that have came through the GAA and turn out to be arseholes. Take that accross the country and that is a serious impact on the society that we live in. To define the GAA as purely a sporting orginisation detracts from it's most important element and that is to develop healthy communities. Rip the social contact and watch the culture of volunteerism wain and then where will we be? f**k I can't control my rage when I think of what these greedy self centred scumbags play their subtle media game as they attempt to chip away at the ethos of the GAA. A wee threat here, a wee demand there. Well I've had it. It is time for all out war. It is time for these boys to hear the voice of the volunteers for a change. It's time our threats and demands had a voice
aggghhhhhhh........ >:(
These "greedy self centred scumbags"..who exactly are you talking about, ALL the GPA memebers? Farrell?
I mean all they've said is they want recognition from the GAA? Is that enough for you to think you've the right to call them, "greedy self centred scumbags?"
Because last time I checked there were a lot of good men, who do a lot for the game, on and off the pitch.
All they want is recognition, the GAA have made empty promises for the past few years, if I were them I'd be pretty pissed off at this stage, wouldn't you be?
I guarantee you if we go into an "all out war" we will loose. The GAA hold the power now, if they keep provoking the GPA they will strike, if the GAA just bite the bullet, recognise the GPA like they said they would then they will have the GPA under their umbrella. THe GPA wont be able to look for more money, or threaten strike, they'll just look unreasonable and will get no backing. But if the GAA continue to intentionally piss them off then the GPA will get more and more backing from more and more players and from the public as well and we could have demand after demand. They will hold all the power if the GAA make them strike. If they don't, they can take control and try to get Dessie out.
I think he has hidden agendas, I don't think most others do. So calling them "greedy self centred scumbags," is way out of line and uncalled for.
The Gaa has agreed to fund their activities under the umbrella of the GAA. Now tell us why the GPA won't agree to this.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 10, 2009, 01:39:46 AM
Quote from: Reillers on July 10, 2009, 01:28:14 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on July 10, 2009, 01:00:01 AM
No I don't agree with their statement lock stock and barrell. If either Barry or Alan feel the need to vacate their position in the near future due to the lack of recognition that is entirely their choice. i won't be hanging out the banners to bring them back. There are 180 clubs in Dublin we will find another corner forward and wing back if necessary.
You've glossed over all the other issues as usual. How much player welfare does the club volunteer of club player get when they lose their job? Thats right none.
Its 5% and 50k per month. That probably in and around 5m. Don't forget its 5% of all revenue streams not just gate receipts so it includes TV monies as well. So if you consider at least 5m a pittance in a recession considering their is 25m per annum spent on all county teams, you must be Denis O Brien in disguise.
What are they going to do with these monies Reillers? the Gaa has agreed to fund thier activities if they come under the umbrella of the association but no of course they have to stay outside. They have given no indication what they will do with the money- how it will be dispersed etc etc. Where is the accountability of this association that has more secrecy about it than The Stone masons.
Of course you don't, it's just take, take, take with you. They give us enough entertainment all season that I'll get over the fact that they want to be recognised, even though I mightn't fully back what they're saying.
They work hard, (no they don't have to but they do anyway) a small bit of recognition isn't too much to ask for is it? Do they not deserve that?
And when I asked you about the statement..
Now I've said that my biggest problem with them is the fact that the ordinary club player gets left out, but if you still believe that one is the same as the other, then you're living on a cloud, they are both on different levels. They've been seperated for a while now.
IC level demands more time, more sacrifice..etc now more then ever, and with it comes pressure on a scale that you'll rarely see at club level,(which comes from exposure and playing for your county, far outweighs that of a club player. Now you've got the pressure to preform for your club and all that, but that compared to Joe Canning? There's another level of pressure completely. Now we can deny that all we like, but we know it's true. I mean I get nervous before games, and that's without 80,000 people, cameras and media attention as well.
That and the fact that while I put in as much effort into training as I can, and everyone else does, while clubs are putting in as much of an effort as the IC sides with regard to all aspects of training, but there's still a massive difference between the two. If there wasnt then everybody would be playing at intercounty level, that's not taking anything away from the clubs, but it's just the way it is. It's fact.
Now I don't like it anymore then you do, and that grand or so would be pretty useful later on in the year,to any club player, or even better put into a scheme that helped players out of work, but it's happening and it's here. But just because I don't fully agree with it, or because I'm not going to get that 1/2 grand at the end of the season, doesn't mean that I'm going to be selfish and bitter enough to begrudge the IC players it.
And no amount of whining from you is going to stop the fact that this is happening.
Reillers 2 friends of mine are training for Ironman competitions. They train twice a day 6 days a week And they manage to work too. Oh and they have families as well. would you say the average inter county player makes more of a sacrifice ? They don't - they would train less than these guys.
How much money are these 2 guys looking for? None. Why because its a personal choice- ie an amateur sport. Same as the GAA.
Same as the Gaa- no-one puts a gun to an inter county player head to play. Its a personal choice and they can walk away anytime they like.
Only one person whingeing here and it isn't me.
They're not alike, in anyway. So what's the point trying to compare them. I'm too tired to point out why, surely you don't need me to. There are several main differences that are clear to see, if you can't then there's no point in me bothering to explain them to you.
Like I said, you're acting incerdibly bitter. Just because you can't get any of the "millions" doesn't mean you need to begrudge them what they might get. It's not worth it. So move on.
There is no difference. They are all amateur sportspeople Reillers. Don't insult people when you know not the slightest thing about how they prepare. Thats just ignorance on your part.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 10, 2009, 01:39:46 AM
Quote from: Reillers on July 10, 2009, 01:28:14 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on July 10, 2009, 01:00:01 AM
No I don't agree with their statement lock stock and barrell. If either Barry or Alan feel the need to vacate their position in the near future due to the lack of recognition that is entirely their choice. i won't be hanging out the banners to bring them back. There are 180 clubs in Dublin we will find another corner forward and wing back if necessary.
You've glossed over all the other issues as usual. How much player welfare does the club volunteer of club player get when they lose their job? Thats right none.
Its 5% and 50k per month. That probably in and around 5m. Don't forget its 5% of all revenue streams not just gate receipts so it includes TV monies as well. So if you consider at least 5m a pittance in a recession considering their is 25m per annum spent on all county teams, you must be Denis O Brien in disguise.
What are they going to do with these monies Reillers? the Gaa has agreed to fund thier activities if they come under the umbrella of the association but no of course they have to stay outside. They have given no indication what they will do with the money- how it will be dispersed etc etc. Where is the accountability of this association that has more secrecy about it than The Stone masons.
Of course you don't, it's just take, take, take with you. They give us enough entertainment all season that I'll get over the fact that they want to be recognised, even though I mightn't fully back what they're saying.
They work hard, (no they don't have to but they do anyway) a small bit of recognition isn't too much to ask for is it? Do they not deserve that?
And when I asked you about the statement..
Now I've said that my biggest problem with them is the fact that the ordinary club player gets left out, but if you still believe that one is the same as the other, then you're living on a cloud, they are both on different levels. They've been seperated for a while now.
IC level demands more time, more sacrifice..etc now more then ever, and with it comes pressure on a scale that you'll rarely see at club level,(which comes from exposure and playing for your county, far outweighs that of a club player. Now you've got the pressure to preform for your club and all that, but that compared to Joe Canning? There's another level of pressure completely. Now we can deny that all we like, but we know it's true. I mean I get nervous before games, and that's without 80,000 people, cameras and media attention as well.
That and the fact that while I put in as much effort into training as I can, and everyone else does, while clubs are putting in as much of an effort as the IC sides with regard to all aspects of training, but there's still a massive difference between the two. If there wasnt then everybody would be playing at intercounty level, that's not taking anything away from the clubs, but it's just the way it is. It's fact.
Now I don't like it anymore then you do, and that grand or so would be pretty useful later on in the year,to any club player, or even better put into a scheme that helped players out of work, but it's happening and it's here. But just because I don't fully agree with it, or because I'm not going to get that 1/2 grand at the end of the season, doesn't mean that I'm going to be selfish and bitter enough to begrudge the IC players it.
And no amount of whining from you is going to stop the fact that this is happening.
Reillers 2 friends of mine are training for Ironman competitions. They train twice a day 6 days a week And they manage to work too. Oh and they have families as well. would you say the average inter county player makes more of a sacrifice ? They don't - they would train less than these guys.
How much money are these 2 guys looking for? None. Why because its a personal choice- ie an amateur sport. Same as the GAA.
Same as the Gaa- no-one puts a gun to an inter county player head to play. Its a personal choice and they can walk away anytime they like.
Only one person whingeing here and it isn't me.
The country is full of amateur athletes that train harder than inter-county GAA players and will never get anything like the same level of recognition.
I know lads rowing on college teams that kill themselves training, but they do it because they want to.
I've no interest in hearing players talking about the sacrifices they are making to be honest.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 10, 2009, 01:45:48 AM
The Gaa has agreed to fund their activities under the umbrella of the GAA. Now tell us why the GPA won't agree to this.
You'll have to ask them that. Like I said, for the 100th time. I don't back what they're doing, but I see why they're doing it. And I'm not going to begrudge them anything. They play IC I'm not good enough to.
People try to get across that they're main problem is that the GAA could loose the amateur ethos and 5 could turn into 10%, but as much as they try to hide it, it's clear that their main problem is that the IC player is getting something for it, while the club player isn't.
It's the way it is I'm afraid, would I love to get €1000 or so at the end of the year, God ya, it'd be a real help, but just because I'm not, doesn't mean that I'm going to be so bitter, so selfish and jealous that I'm going to begrudge the fact that they might get that 1 or 2 grand.
So Reillers, imagine a seriously committed dual player in your club who was out 5 nights
Should he be annoyed if he was out of work and he didn't get onto that GAA funded GPA education programme because he wasn't quite good enough?
Should he be annoyed if IC players get treated better finacially by GAA funding than he does if they do their cruciate and miss work for a couple of months because they a wee bit better than him?
Should the likes of heffo and count less like him across the land think of his contribution in terms of gaining recognition from HQ and if not should they do whatever it takes to get it?
Your thoughts and comments appear unbelievably niave & short sighted and I am not trying to cause offense by saying that. The GAA is not primarily about entertainment at a national level. Plenty get entertainment from it yes, but the people that make the GAA tick on the ground will see it in very different terms.
The gaa has agreed to fund their activities so they won't be treating them the same as the club player. The gaa contributes to all inter county player welfare . they don't make the same contributions to club player welfare. So n fairness Reillers the Gaa has already differenitiated the inter county player from the club player. They have said they will make more contributons if the GPA become part of the association to the levels the GPA require.
What more do the GPA want? They are kidding themselves if they think the public will support them on this one.
Quote from: theskull1 on July 10, 2009, 01:52:49 AM
So Reillers, imagine a seriously committed dual player in your club who was out 5 nights
Should he be annoyed if he was out of work and he didn't get onto that GAA funded GPA education programme because he wasn't quite good enough?
Should he be annoyed if IC players get treated better finacially by GAA funding than he does if they do their cruciate and miss work for a couple of months because they a wee bit better than him?
Should the likes of heffo and count less like him across the land think of his contribution in terms of gaining recognition from HQ and if not should they do whatever it takes to get it?
Your thoughts and comments appear unbelievably niave & short sighted and I am not trying to cause offense by saying that. The GAA is not primarily about entertainment at a national level. Plenty get entertainment from it yes, but the people that make the GAA tick on the ground will see it in very different terms.
I'd LOVE the money, but I'm not good enough, but I'm not going to begrudge someone who is the money.
And like you said, a dual player who plays 5 nights a week..well like it's been said many times before, no ones making him play, he doesn't have to go out 5 nights a week now does he.
I'm not f**king backing what they're doing. But I'm just putting their point across because I can see why they're doing it, and I feel that most of them are good honest lads, who don't deserve to be called "greedy self centred scumbags."
Quote from: INDIANA on July 10, 2009, 01:55:20 AM
The gaa has agreed to fund their activities so they won't be treating them the same as the club player. The gaa contributes to all inter county player welfare . they don't make the same contributions to club player welfare. So n fairness Reillers the Gaa has already differenitiated the inter county player from the club player. They have said they will make more contributons if the GPA become part of the association to the levels the GPA require.
What more do the GPA want? They are kidding themselves if they think the public will support them on this one.
They've made something that we all knew, official.
And while I'm not thrilled about it I'm not going to waste my time or breath moaning about it. I mean what's the point. At the end of the day you usually get what's comming to you and I'm sure the GPA will. The GPA have asked the GAA, they've made requests, they want them to be filled. They've been messed around by the GAA for years, they just need to get it over with. Get it over with, and leave it at that, then try and find a way to get rid of Dessie. I do believe that most of the players in the GPA have good intentions and are good honest lads, but that man has so many hidden agendas. He needs to be gotten rid of sooner rather then later before things get any worse.
Quote from: theskull1 on July 10, 2009, 01:15:33 AM
Quote"Player welfare is not about two tickets for a match or a meal after training. In this climate, it's about education programmes for players, looking after guys that are injured."
Now it's a simple question, yes or no, do you agree with the statement put above by one of your own?
does Brogan not make 6 figure sums from his involvement in the GAA?
He certainly does
Quote from: Reillers on July 09, 2009, 05:31:03 PM
Quote from: heffo on July 09, 2009, 03:47:08 PM
Quote from: Reillers on July 09, 2009, 03:01:22 PM
Some people are so bitter.
Like I'm not exactly thrilled at the fact that they are excluding the ordinary club player from this, which would probably be one of my biggest problem with it. But there's no need for people to be so bitter about it, to begrudge them a pathetic 5%.
I mean if you're out of work, that, at least, €1000 at the end of the season, it will make a hell of a difference at the end of the year for the IC player, but not so much that it'll want them going mad for more.
They work hard all year round, the level of skill and fitness..etc improves year in year out, the off time in the season gets shorter and shorter, more is demanded from them each year. I can see why they're getting frustrated, especially when they aren't seeing the money go back in anywhere else. They work hard, 26 odd hours a week is a lot, and they probably feel they deserve some reward for that. Something to recognise their efforts.
Ya they're not forced to do it, but if that's the case we'll have no one left to play. They aren't forced to do it, but they do it because they love it, but they do have to sacrifice a lot. To deny that is unfair to them, especially when it's so clear to see, especially when you consider how demanding it's gotten over the last few years, it'd be hard to deny that they don't deserve what they're asking for.
I don't really back it, amateur is amateur, but I can see where they're coming from, and if you're paying clowns like Frank Murphy, I'd much rather see it go to the players. So whatever happens, I'm not going to begrudge them it. It's not like you can say they haven't earned it.
I mean, they give us so much entertainment all year round, they're labled as heroes. But when it comes to giving them recognition, then they're a joke?
People who have problems with the GPA, the problems are mostly with this part of them because they do do a lot of good work in other parts of the game. But the only way to stop the GPA is to slow them down, to slow down their momentum. If the GAA keep saying no, if they keep adding fuel to the fire then more and more momentum will continue to grow, and it's been building and building for a few years now. The players feel they've a right to be recognised. I see no problem in that if it'll stop the backlash which the GAA will face if they keep on provoking them.
At the end of the day 5% is f**k all, and I don't see the point in begruding them the tiny amount of money that they could possibly get. Especially if it'll prevent backlash in the future.
A few counter arguments:
1. I don't think anyone is 'begrudging' them anything - for me, it's wrong to have a hierarchy of GAA volunteer. The Elite IC player is a product of their clubs and is the product of hundreds of people's volunteer work. IC games are the window dressing of the GAA, not the be all and end all.
2. You say IC players get frustrated when they see the money the GAA earns not being re-invested anywhere else - that's plain ludicrous - the GAA accounts are available as a public document and anyone can where all the money is being re-invested in each county board - it's not as if Central council are like some African dictatorship all driving around in Rolls Royces
3. Personally speaking, I'm a club officer, a County board officer, a Juvenile coach, a player among other things in the GAA - I spend probably at least twice the 26 hours figure you quote involved in the GAA each week - I don't apply for a cent in expenses. When I bring the youngfellas from my team to a match in Parnell park or Croke park, I generally end up paying for half of their tickets, end up paying for their bus/luas etc because they're foreign nationals/their parents don't have the money etc - I don't mention it to anybody and don't give it a second thought.
4. The GPA are looking for a flat 5% with no breakdown of how they'll spend or re-distribute it - as another poster made the point - I wouldn't walk into a bank and ask for a large loan without a business plan.
1. That's what it sounds like from a lot of posts on here. And I'm sorry, but if you think there isn't all ready a divide between club and IC players then you're living up in the clouds, or in eh..Heffoland.
2. That's what they say, but they say they can't see it being put back in anywhere, even the 19mil that the GAA got off of the soccer and rugby, they say they can't see where it's being put back in, or at least so Sully says.
3. That's great for you, fair play and whatever, but not everyone can afford to not apply for a cent in expenses. And like I said a lot are now out of work.
They give their time with their club as much as the next person, and their not looking for anything for the work they do with their clubs, so comparing the two is at the end of the day pretty irrelevant, as in they're seperate.
They do that work, and then they've work with the IC team as well. The IC level is seperate all together.
At the moment they're not looking for it to go pro, could they in the future? Who knows, anything could happen, same way whose to say you wont get hit by a car when you leave your house.
It's pointless worrying about it imo. If it happens, then well, that's a bridge we need to jump off in the future. Imo right now, it's about getting recognised, which is something I think at this stage they deserve at least.
4. That I don't agree with, but I'm sure we'll see what they want as a breakdown soon enough.
My problem here is people are acting like they're getting millions each. At the least it's 1000, at the most, 2,500. It's not breaking the bank, it's not enough for them to go mad for money down the line. But it will make a difference to those out of work and such at the end of the year.
I'd much rather see something done for them instead of this money they want now, but as you have it it's not, and I think we risk a lot more by pissing them off then just recognising them now.
1. I think you're mistaking begruding for a belief that there shouldn't be a distinction between volunteers in the GAA - the only divide between a GAA volunteer and an IC player is one created by the GPA, one driven by greed.
2. I think you should research your points more - if 'Sully' can't do a simple google search or ask his club delegate for a breakdown of the funding got in the last year from central/Munster council, then there is no hope for any of us
3. I know dozens of IC players from different counties personally - the vast majority of them are very sound guys with no notions about themselves and appreciate the position they find themselves in - very few of those players I know are active in their clubs aside from playing Senior football or Hurling - I know Sully has recently taken over the Cloyne U16's, but that is the exception rather than the rule - It's completely disengious to claim that IC players do 'as much as the next volunteer' for their club.
4. 'We'll see a breakdown soon enough' - yet before they've told the members of the GAA how they plan on spending the millions they demand, they're already on strike? How can we trust this organisation? How can we trust them when they say they only want 5% now and next year they'll want 10%?
Quote from: Reillers on July 10, 2009, 12:40:47 AM
....... It's a pathetic 5%, it's nothing ........
At the risk of being pedantic ..... Since when did 5% of anything become "pathetic" or "nothing"? At an individual level, who would feel that a 5% pay cut was "nothing". Or if the government introduced a new 5% tax, that it would be viewed so casually?
If a company were told that it must pay a 5% "fee" for some reason, would the board of directors fell that this was fine, cause it would only be a "pathetic" 5% which is "nothing"?
What ever your views on the whole GAA/GPA situation, please don't kid yourself that 5% if a pathetic amount. I can't think of any situation where 5% is not significant.
Quote from: RMDrive on July 10, 2009, 09:04:37 AM
Quote from: Reillers on July 10, 2009, 12:40:47 AM
....... It's a pathetic 5%, it's nothing ........
At the risk of being pedantic ..... Since when did 5% of anything become "pathetic" or "nothing"? At an individual level, who would feel that a 5% pay cut was "nothing". Or if the government introduced a new 5% tax, that it would be viewed so casually?
If a company were told that it must pay a 5% "fee" for some reason, would the board of directors fell that this was fine, cause it would only be a "pathetic" 5% which is "nothing"?
What ever your views on the whole GAA/GPA situation, please don't kid yourself that 5% if a pathetic amount. I can't think of any situation where 5% is not significant.
I'm repeating myself - but the GPA are looking 5% of the gross income which has been calculated might represent 66% of the nett profits of the GAA -
66% is not insignificant - if they look for 10% they'll take all the profit and a bit more.
Quote from: Reillers on July 10, 2009, 01:58:57 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on July 10, 2009, 01:52:49 AM
So Reillers, imagine a seriously committed dual player in your club who was out 5 nights
Should he be annoyed if he was out of work and he didn't get onto that GAA funded GPA education programme because he wasn't quite good enough?
Should he be annoyed if IC players get treated better finacially by GAA funding than he does if they do their cruciate and miss work for a couple of months because they a wee bit better than him?
Should the likes of heffo and count less like him across the land think of his contribution in terms of gaining recognition from HQ and if not should they do whatever it takes to get it?
Your thoughts and comments appear unbelievably niave & short sighted and I am not trying to cause offense by saying that. The GAA is not primarily about entertainment at a national level. Plenty get entertainment from it yes, but the people that make the GAA tick on the ground will see it in very different terms.
I'd LOVE the money, but I'm not good enough, but I'm not going to begrudge someone who is the money.
And like you said, a dual player who plays 5 nights a week..well like it's been said many times before, no ones making him play, he doesn't have to go out 5 nights a week now does he.
I'm not f**king backing what they're doing. But I'm just putting their point across because I can see why they're doing it, and I feel that most of them are good honest lads, who don't deserve to be called "greedy self centred scumbags."
So you'd love the money and not care too much about the impact of you getting it as opposed to all the clubs up and down the land as they strive to improve the GAA experience for thousands up and down the land. So the criteria for "being recognised" in the great voluntary orginisation, applies only when you are good enough to make the GAA big money at the turnstiles. Fcuk me. Does values and ethics mean anything to you? Have a wee think about what you are saying.
Quote from: theskull1 on July 10, 2009, 10:55:43 AM
Quote from: Reillers on July 10, 2009, 01:58:57 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on July 10, 2009, 01:52:49 AM
So Reillers, imagine a seriously committed dual player in your club who was out 5 nights
Should he be annoyed if he was out of work and he didn't get onto that GAA funded GPA education programme because he wasn't quite good enough?
Should he be annoyed if IC players get treated better finacially by GAA funding than he does if they do their cruciate and miss work for a couple of months because they a wee bit better than him?
Should the likes of heffo and count less like him across the land think of his contribution in terms of gaining recognition from HQ and if not should they do whatever it takes to get it?
Your thoughts and comments appear unbelievably niave & short sighted and I am not trying to cause offense by saying that. The GAA is not primarily about entertainment at a national level. Plenty get entertainment from it yes, but the people that make the GAA tick on the ground will see it in very different terms.
I'd LOVE the money, but I'm not good enough, but I'm not going to begrudge someone who is the money.
And like you said, a dual player who plays 5 nights a week..well like it's been said many times before, no ones making him play, he doesn't have to go out 5 nights a week now does he.
I'm not f**king backing what they're doing. But I'm just putting their point across because I can see why they're doing it, and I feel that most of them are good honest lads, who don't deserve to be called "greedy self centred scumbags."
So you'd love the money and not care too much about the impact of you getting it as opposed to all the clubs up and down the land as they strive to improve the GAA experience for thousands up and down the land. So the criteria for "being recognised" in the great voluntary orginisation, applies only when you are good enough to make the GAA big money at the turnstiles. Fcuk me. Does values and ethics mean anything to you? Have a wee think about what you are saying.
I've said a good few times now Skull, and I'm not going to continue to repeat myself just because you couldn't be bothered to read the post. I'd rather there was none at all, but there is, and because there is obviously it'd better if it was available to the club player, which led me to say that the money and the end of the year would be a great help, but I'm not good enough to play IC and I'm not going to begrudge someone who is the chance of getting that 1 or 2 grand. Which is something I think a lot of people are doing. So I'm going to ask you again before you go off on another rant, read my posts fully before you come moaning to me about it because I'm sick of repeating myself.
Quote from: RMDrive on July 10, 2009, 09:04:37 AM
Quote from: Reillers on July 10, 2009, 12:40:47 AM
....... It's a pathetic 5%, it's nothing ........
At the risk of being pedantic ..... Since when did 5% of anything become "pathetic" or "nothing"? At an individual level, who would feel that a 5% pay cut was "nothing". Or if the government introduced a new 5% tax, that it would be viewed so casually?
If a company were told that it must pay a 5% "fee" for some reason, would the board of directors fell that this was fine, cause it would only be a "pathetic" 5% which is "nothing"?
What ever your views on the whole GAA/GPA situation, please don't kid yourself that 5% if a pathetic amount. I can't think of any situation where 5% is not significant.
When I say it's a "pathetic" amount, I mean when it comes to the players getting any of it, and what it means in the run of things. It's only 5%, probably the least they could look for. It's nothing near any sort of wage whatsoever. It wont, when you lay up the consiquences of what might happen if the GPA go on strike, make that much of a difference when you compare it to what might happen if the GAA keep provoking them.
Quote from: Reillers on July 10, 2009, 11:20:43 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on July 10, 2009, 10:55:43 AM
Quote from: Reillers on July 10, 2009, 01:58:57 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on July 10, 2009, 01:52:49 AM
So Reillers, imagine a seriously committed dual player in your club who was out 5 nights
Should he be annoyed if he was out of work and he didn't get onto that GAA funded GPA education programme because he wasn't quite good enough?
Should he be annoyed if IC players get treated better finacially by GAA funding than he does if they do their cruciate and miss work for a couple of months because they a wee bit better than him?
Should the likes of heffo and count less like him across the land think of his contribution in terms of gaining recognition from HQ and if not should they do whatever it takes to get it?
Your thoughts and comments appear unbelievably niave & short sighted and I am not trying to cause offense by saying that. The GAA is not primarily about entertainment at a national level. Plenty get entertainment from it yes, but the people that make the GAA tick on the ground will see it in very different terms.
I'd LOVE the money, but I'm not good enough, but I'm not going to begrudge someone who is the money.
And like you said, a dual player who plays 5 nights a week..well like it's been said many times before, no ones making him play, he doesn't have to go out 5 nights a week now does he.
I'm not f**king backing what they're doing. But I'm just putting their point across because I can see why they're doing it, and I feel that most of them are good honest lads, who don't deserve to be called "greedy self centred scumbags."
So you'd love the money and not care too much about the impact of you getting it as opposed to all the clubs up and down the land as they strive to improve the GAA experience for thousands up and down the land. So the criteria for "being recognised" in the great voluntary orginisation, applies only when you are good enough to make the GAA big money at the turnstiles. Fcuk me. Does values and ethics mean anything to you? Have a wee think about what you are saying.
I'm not going to begrudge someone who is the chance of getting that 1 or 2 grand.
Reillers - are you referring to the Dept of sport grants or the demand for five percent of gross profit of the GAA commercial income?
Reillers you're mixing everything up- read some background on the debate rather than hearsay. Its 5% of total income which is at least twice what the grants scheme gave them and in fact is closer to 10m rather than 5m. Thats a sizeable sum even in boom times never mind a recession.
Reillers,
GAA players of all descriptions play the gaelic games we know and love because they enjoy doing so. it is not an occupation, it is not a duty. when we pay our gaa membership at the start of the year we are fully aware that it is an amateur organisation.
please outline why intercounty GAA players deserve to have money thrown (the 5%) at them simply because they were fortunate enough to be selected to become part of an intercounty panel.
I think a central plank of the GPA's argument is that county football and hurling generates upwards of 75-85% of the GAA's entire income and that this is done on the back of county players.
I remain to be convinced by the argument overall
Quote from: The GAA on July 10, 2009, 02:27:45 PM
I think a central plank of the GPA's argument is that county football and hurling generates upwards of 75-85% of the GAA's entire income and that this is done on the back of county players.
I remain to be convinced by the argument overall
Thats professionalism then really isn't it . If they are looking for direct income from gate receipts then its pay for play.
They miss the point. I'm going to Thurles tomorrow to watch SLIGO play, not a collection of individuals. As for professionalsim - they are already being paid to play.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 10, 2009, 02:59:34 PM
Quote from: The GAA on July 10, 2009, 02:27:45 PM
I think a central plank of the GPA's argument is that county football and hurling generates upwards of 75-85% of the GAA's entire income and that this is done on the back of county players.
I remain to be convinced by the argument overall
Thats professionalism then really isn't it . If they are looking for direct income from gate receipts then its pay for play.
Yip
Yeah, i think i agree but i'm still torn by the possibility that a player welfare wing, well funded could do some great work.
particularly if it weren't led by farrell and the stigma of PFP hanging about in the background.
Quote from: The GAA on July 10, 2009, 04:24:06 PM
Yeah, i think i agree but i'm still torn by the possibility that a player welfare wing, well funded could do some great work.
particularly if it weren't led by farrell and the stigma of PFP hanging about in the background.
Isn't this basically what Cooney & Duffy are offering??
Two years ago I went to a McKenna Cup match on a digusting January day in Downpatrick to watch Down's experimental team take on Antrim's experimental team. It was a dreadful experience, and most of the 40 players involved that day have disappeared into a deep abyss since.
But there were still around 2,000 people there. Which is more than the combined attendances at the Railway Cup each year, when the creme de la creme take on the creme de la creme in a competitive environment.
I can't state strongly enough that crowds go to watch their team (their county) playing, and not the individuals involved. This is the bit GPA don't fathom. The GAA cannot afford to subsidise 1,800 players (32 counties with 2 sports involvinig squads of 30), so if pursuing this the only option would be to downsize and concentrate on the elite. And there just isn't the market for that. You don't need economic models to know that, just a bit of cop on.
The GAA had such an opportunity to call their bluff two years ago and blew it. they should have let them go on strike. Dessie and his sidekick seem to think the world will come to halt without county players. They should have made it the yesr of the club and let them strike. f** 'em.
Reillers,
I think your tatic of just agreeing with the GPA and giving in to their current demands for the the sake of keeping the peace is very wrong and would be a total signal of weakness by the GAA. I don't think the GPA have the power at all. They can strike but I don't think they wpould succeed in getting the public behind them on antaionwide scale.
Giving into them and handing over the money 5% plus 50k per month would be madness. As the GAA have pointed out they have a current structure that must be respected and adhered to. The GPA seem to have totally acted outside this structure and have no repsect for the history of the GAA. Alot of their current argument is based on hearsay and well intended pipe dreams. Have the GAA or anyone seen the detailed plans of the GPA.
The GAA outlined a perfect case to the GPA the other day and if the GPA can't see this and change their tack then, I see no reason why the GAA don't form their own player welfare body within their current structure with the funding in place.
You have to remember that the GPA don't collect membership anymore from current Intercounty squads cause the money wasn't forthcoming for its "members". I know players on Intercounty panels in the past who never had any contact, in any form, from the GPA but found they where listed as members.
I would not welcome a strike but it would sort this matter out once and for all and we'd see twho has the power, the GPA or intercounty mangers.
What utter balderdash Reillers. We'd better give in or else. Or else what? Give over will ya.
Quote from: theskull1 on July 10, 2009, 11:33:21 PM
What utter balderdash Reillers. We'd better give in or else. Or else what? Give over will ya.
When one of the major GPA apologists on this site can only come up with that then its shows how bloody wong the GPA are. I'll credit Reillers with the honesty of saying what they're asking for is not right anyway. Fair play.
Quote from: bingobus on July 10, 2009, 10:06:43 PM
Reillers,
I think your tatic of just agreeing with the GPA and giving in to their current demands for the the sake of keeping the peace is very wrong and would be a total signal of weakness by the GAA. I don't think the GPA have the power at all. They can strike but I don't think they wpould succeed in getting the public behind them on antaionwide scale.
Giving into them and handing over the money 5% plus 50k per month would be madness. As the GAA have pointed out they have a current structure that must be respected and adhered to. The GPA seem to have totally acted outside this structure and have no repsect for the history of the GAA. Alot of their current argument is based on hearsay and well intended pipe dreams. Have the GAA or anyone seen the detailed plans of the GPA.
The GAA outlined a perfect case to the GPA the other day and if the GPA can't see this and change their tack then, I see no reason why the GAA don't form their own player welfare body within their current structure with the funding in place.
You have to remember that the GPA don't collect membership anymore from current Intercounty squads cause the money wasn't forthcoming for its "members". I know players on Intercounty panels in the past who never had any contact, in any form, from the GPA but found they where listed as members.
I would not welcome a strike but it would sort this matter out once and for all and we'd see twho has the power, the GPA or intercounty mangers.
Ya but what else are we going to do? Nothing. It's happening, like it or not.
It's happening. So I don't see the point in fighting it more when it could lead to a strike, and while you say that a strike would sort out the matter once and for all, well looking at what happened in Cork, 3 strikes later and the underlining problem still remains, nothing but temporary solutions have been found, because when it happens, everyone looks for the fastest solution.
If all the GPA members refuse to play then what?
The IC managers will do what, like what happened in Cork, find another team to play? What kind of mess will that put the rest of the GAA in.
Well Gerald needed to go near the end of the top 100 players in Cork. You know the mentality in teams, well it's in the Cork anyway, there's a massive sense of unity, and players who aren't members good well sympathise with them.
And what are IC managers to do, go against all their team, and hell you never no some might back them, and at the end of the day, while there might be a lot of raw feelings here and up and down the GAA community, it could be the minority, because at the end of the day there are a lot of GAA fans out there, people who aren't involved in clubs, who spend their weeks watching soccer and aren't bothered about the true meaning of the GAA and the way it works.
Because if it comes down to it, the demand to watch the best teams put out for their county week in week out, could well win over.
They could well get the backing from the "fans" and the fact that the GAA have been messing around with this for the past few years, empty promises and such, will add to backing they could get.
It's fine that some people are willing to go to war, willing to face and fight a strike, but to be honest, I don't think I've the heart for another one. I've had enough to last me a life time, and they are messy and complicated and almost are never fully solved, especially if two sides are as stuborn as these are. It'll be never ending. And going on strike could unearth a lot of unresolved issues. And even if solutions are found they're not going to be anything more then temporary solutions and we could be facing strike after strike after strike, neither side will want to give in, it'll be so bitter. People think the Cork strikes did damage to the GAA, what do you think an all out strike will do to the GAA, there is no getting over that.
And I think there's bitter feelings and grudges between the CCB and IC players. That's annoying, that's hard to put up with, but if you've got that between the actual GAA and all the GPA players..the GAA will never get over this.
This could be a short easy strike where one side gives in quickly, but we're talking about the GAA, the men who get paid fighting against a lot of players who are mostly looking for recognition.
Two incredibly stubborn sides..I can't see it being easy or short or painless.
You may be prepared to risk a strike, but I'm not. It'll only end badly.
Reillers, give it up.
I for one don't want you banging on saying the same thing over and over 200 pages later on this thread.
The GPA have been caught out and Dessie's recent petulant outburst said it all. It's only now their real aims and objectives are becoming clear - 5% of the GAA's annual income my arse.
Dessie, Donal, Geezer, Sean etc can all go fcuk themselves
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on July 11, 2009, 12:16:27 AM
Reillers, give it up.
I for one don't want you banging on saying the same thing over and over 200 pages later on this thread.
The GPA have been caught out and Dessie's recent petulant outburst said it all. It's only now their real aims and objectives are becoming clear - 5% of the GAA's annual income my arse.
Dessie, Donal, Geezer, Sean etc can all go fcuk themselves
Oh you know what, fine, let ye at your little war, but if a strike is going to be as bad as it could well be, consequences will be even worse, especially if the GPA win. And if that happens we'll all be back here a few months later thinking why didn't we just accept it, agree to 5% of the GAA's comercial income. It will get bad, and as much as you might hate all the people you've named above there are so many players in the GPA and they have the backing of them. What are you going to do, tell the entire group of IC players to "go fcuk themselves."
I mean grow up, there will be consequences if there is a strike and things get as bad as they look to get, and no ammount of telling them to "go fcuk themselves" will fix that.
If they go on strike no one will look to give in, they are two extremley stuborn sides.
So you tell me, tell me a solution to the mess that this could leave us. Tell me something a little more productive then "go fcuk themselves." Tell me how you expect the organisation, who's main funding comes from the IC players in the summer, is going to get over that, financially and mentally. Tell me how will they get rid of the massive divide that it will create between the officials, (ironically the men who get paid for the job they do,) and the IC players, and maybe even the clubs.
Tell me how to fix it, try making it a little more productive then the last time. Tell me how the result would be anything other then disastrous if it's going to be as bad as people predict, because I'd love to know.
I cannot imagine anthing worse than handing over 5% of the GAA's gross income to the GPA. I'd much prefer to do away with county teams altogether than that.
Quote from: Reillers on July 11, 2009, 12:47:30 AM
... agree to 5% of the GAA's comercial income
How unthin is the thin edge of this particular wedge going to get?
Quote from: Reillers on July 10, 2009, 11:55:27 PM
Quote from: bingobus on July 10, 2009, 10:06:43 PM
Reillers,
I think your tatic of just agreeing with the GPA and giving in to their current demands for the the sake of keeping the peace is very wrong and would be a total signal of weakness by the GAA. I don't think the GPA have the power at all. They can strike but I don't think they wpould succeed in getting the public behind them on antaionwide scale.
Giving into them and handing over the money 5% plus 50k per month would be madness. As the GAA have pointed out they have a current structure that must be respected and adhered to. The GPA seem to have totally acted outside this structure and have no repsect for the history of the GAA. Alot of their current argument is based on hearsay and well intended pipe dreams. Have the GAA or anyone seen the detailed plans of the GPA.
The GAA outlined a perfect case to the GPA the other day and if the GPA can't see this and change their tack then, I see no reason why the GAA don't form their own player welfare body within their current structure with the funding in place.
You have to remember that the GPA don't collect membership anymore from current Intercounty squads cause the money wasn't forthcoming for its "members". I know players on Intercounty panels in the past who never had any contact, in any form, from the GPA but found they where listed as members.
I would not welcome a strike but it would sort this matter out once and for all and we'd see twho has the power, the GPA or intercounty mangers.
Ya but what else are we going to do? Nothing. It's happening, like it or not.
It's happening. So I don't see the point in fighting it more when it could lead to a strike, and while you say that a strike would sort out the matter once and for all, well looking at what happened in Cork, 3 strikes later and the underlining problem still remains, nothing but temporary solutions have been found, because when it happens, everyone looks for the fastest solution.
If all the GPA members refuse to play then what?
The IC managers will do what, like what happened in Cork, find another team to play? What kind of mess will that put the rest of the GAA in.
Well Gerald needed to go near the end of the top 100 players in Cork. You know the mentality in teams, well it's in the Cork anyway, there's a massive sense of unity, and players who aren't members good well sympathise with them.
And what are IC managers to do, go against all their team, and hell you never no some might back them, and at the end of the day, while there might be a lot of raw feelings here and up and down the GAA community, it could be the minority, because at the end of the day there are a lot of GAA fans out there, people who aren't involved in clubs, who spend their weeks watching soccer and aren't bothered about the true meaning of the GAA and the way it works.
Because if it comes down to it, the demand to watch the best teams put out for their county week in week out, could well win over.
They could well get the backing from the "fans" and the fact that the GAA have been messing around with this for the past few years, empty promises and such, will add to backing they could get.
It's fine that some people are willing to go to war, willing to face and fight a strike, but to be honest, I don't think I've the heart for another one. I've had enough to last me a life time, and they are messy and complicated and almost are never fully solved, especially if two sides are as stuborn as these are. It'll be never ending. And going on strike could unearth a lot of unresolved issues. And even if solutions are found they're not going to be anything more then temporary solutions and we could be facing strike after strike after strike, neither side will want to give in, it'll be so bitter. People think the Cork strikes did damage to the GAA, what do you think an all out strike will do to the GAA, there is no getting over that.
And I think there's bitter feelings and grudges between the CCB and IC players. That's annoying, that's hard to put up with, but if you've got that between the actual GAA and all the GPA players..the GAA will never get over this.
This could be a short easy strike where one side gives in quickly, but we're talking about the GAA, the men who get paid fighting against a lot of players who are mostly looking for recognition.
Two incredibly stubborn sides..I can't see it being easy or short or painless.
You may be prepared to risk a strike, but I'm not. It'll only end badly.
I think you overestimate the alleged united front of the GPA. I know several prominent IC players who aren't members and certainly won't be going on any strike. There is no list of any membership anywhere to be found. They aren't as well organised as people think. Al lot of IC players are looked after extremely well and know they couldn't show their face in their club again if they went on strike. I certainly know what reaction they'd get in my club if they did so. That in itself will ensure that they don't.
This is coming from a certain section of GAA IC players and in my view its a minority. The vast majority of inter county players have no interest in being paid provided they are well looked after.
Quote from: Reillers on July 11, 2009, 12:47:30 AM
we'll all be back here a few months later thinking why didn't we just accept it, agree to 5% of the GAA's comercial income.
Reillers, 5% of the GAA's income is approximately 70% of the GAA's profits - have you not got that into your head yet?
Why should the GAA give substantially all of their profits to a renegade outfit like the GPA?
And as we are now in a recession I have not doubt that the commercial income will fall over the next couple of years, however a large amount of the costs will still be fixed, ie the GAA will book a lower profit in the coming years than they have done in the recent past.
What happens if handing over the 5% of their commercial income in the coming years results in the GAA suffering a loss (this is entirely possible given a reducing turnover resulting in lower profits)?
Your main argument for giving the GPA the 5% is "give it to them and if they come back next year and ask for 10% then we can see that they were only after the money all along, and that it will show them up".
People like Seanie and others on this board a few years ago were very clearly arguing that the players getting the government grant would only be the start of pay for play - the GPA stated that they weren't after money.
I think it is very clear that we don't need to give the GPA another chance to make fools out of themselves, it has been easy to see that they have ALWAYS been after money.
I will make a point of watching all GAA sports coverege (even throught the ads) to the end and buying all papers advertising GAA coverage on their front cover this weekend.
Quote from: theskull1 on July 10, 2009, 11:33:21 PM
What utter balderdash Reillers. We'd better give in or else. Or else what? Give over will ya.
Well put, that's essentially what his argument is about. Utter nonsense.
I think there is a great deal of anti GPA sentiment around at the moment and it crosses county lines. I believe that Dessie has finished the organisation and it is up to the GAA various committees to ensure that welfare of club and county players is at least a basic level. Take it on, deal with it and get rid of Dessie. Hasnt the brain or wit to be playing our organisation off against each other the way he has been doing. Players dont deserve to be looked after any better than that. To me they get plenty enough in Tyrone if anything the cost oif the county teams are too high and given too much importance at the moment certainly whilst clubs are on their knees financially. As far as the anti GPA sentiment goes at the moment we prefer to ignore Canavan and Cavanaghs off field rants, in the same way we do with Frank Mc Guigan - over time though if they continually angle in their personal viewpoints into every bloody GAA debate that goes on then patience will wear thin and undoubtedly people will interpret their comments as greed and anti GAA. If the GAA is under threat no amount of all stars on the field will buffer the backlash of their attempts to damage the organisation off it and I predict in time their stars will become very diminished. Cavanagh in particular would struggle to cope with that - I would have much more respect as a person for his county club mate Philip Jordan over his stance last year. I just wish moire county players would wise up and speak publicly.
Quote from: Reillers on July 10, 2009, 11:55:27 PM
Ya but what else are we going to do? Nothing. It's happening, like it or not.
It's happening. So I don't see the point in fighting it more when it could lead to a strike, and while you say that a strike would sort out the matter once and for all, well looking at what happened in Cork, 3 strikes later and the underlining problem still remains, nothing but temporary solutions have been found, because when it happens, everyone looks for the fastest solution.
If all the GPA members refuse to play then what?
The IC managers will do what, like what happened in Cork, find another team to play? What kind of mess will that put the rest of the GAA in.
Well Gerald needed to go near the end of the top 100 players in Cork. You know the mentality in teams, well it's in the Cork anyway, there's a massive sense of unity, and players who aren't members good well sympathise with them.
And what are IC managers to do, go against all their team, and hell you never no some might back them, and at the end of the day, while there might be a lot of raw feelings here and up and down the GAA community, it could be the minority, because at the end of the day there are a lot of GAA fans out there, people who aren't involved in clubs, who spend their weeks watching soccer and aren't bothered about the true meaning of the GAA and the way it works.
Because if it comes down to it, the demand to watch the best teams put out for their county week in week out, could well win over.
They could well get the backing from the "fans" and the fact that the GAA have been messing around with this for the past few years, empty promises and such, will add to backing they could get.
It's fine that some people are willing to go to war, willing to face and fight a strike, but to be honest, I don't think I've the heart for another one. I've had enough to last me a life time, and they are messy and complicated and almost are never fully solved, especially if two sides are as stuborn as these are. It'll be never ending. And going on strike could unearth a lot of unresolved issues. And even if solutions are found they're not going to be anything more then temporary solutions and we could be facing strike after strike after strike, neither side will want to give in, it'll be so bitter. People think the Cork strikes did damage to the GAA, what do you think an all out strike will do to the GAA, there is no getting over that.
And I think there's bitter feelings and grudges between the CCB and IC players. That's annoying, that's hard to put up with, but if you've got that between the actual GAA and all the GPA players..the GAA will never get over this.
This could be a short easy strike where one side gives in quickly, but we're talking about the GAA, the men who get paid fighting against a lot of players who are mostly looking for recognition.
Two incredibly stubborn sides..I can't see it being easy or short or painless.
You may be prepared to risk a strike, but I'm not. It'll only end badly.
Enough. These posts of yours are quite frankly getting getting ridiculous.
1. If the GPA members strike, there are thousands of players the length and breadth of the country more than willing to pull on a county jersey. Do not delude yourself into thinking otherwise. If the GPA strike this year, then yes, this years championship may become a farce. However, in short order, being a member of the GPA would see you not considered for county panels, and the problem would resolve itself.
2. The GAA "fans" out there, as you put it, are virtually all current or ex footballers/hurlers/camogs. Virtually all are on the side of the GAA in this argument, as shown for example by the Tyrone vote mentioned earlier in this thread. Many will have kids out training and playing, and appreciate the gross imbalance pay for play creates when comparing the IC player to the club members running the underage teams.
3. With regards to your line "the demand to watch the best teams put out for their county week in week out", I point you towards the runaway success of the railway cup. I would also say consider the attitude of any supporter, do they want a player committed to the cause, or a fancy-dan that is only out for him/herself? You know the answer to that one, although I've a feeling your going to ignore it.
4. Define "recognition"... the GPA are banding this term about as if it means something. It doesn't. Everyone recognises county players, due to the publicity they get from playing infront of thousands*, which is a result of the foundations and work done by the volunteer members of the GAA, some of the IC player would do well to remember that.
*It meets the definition of recognition does it not?
What about John Lee giving an interview this evening after the hurling game? Fair play John Lee
We can do this the easy way or the hard way !
Jesus Reillers you really are a complete twat.
Lads if the GAA give the GPA 5% or 0.5%, I will say goodbye to the GAA for good.
You can only go so far, this is the line that cannot be crossed.
maybe we should go with reillers suggestion "sure its only a wee bit of professionalism".
TIME TO TURN THE SCREW CHRISTY
McGeeney won't do any interviews today ... GPA member/supporter ...
Am I the only one who finds that ironic?
Who cares, I know I wont miss the interviews.
Does every county board have a full-time secretary these days like Down has?
If so, these secretaries should be issued a directive now from HQ to begin putting out the feelers for a contingency county squad, in case the GPA decide to commit suicide through striking.
It shouldn't take that much effort to source 30 non-GPA affiliated players of future, former or nearly county standard to pick up the reins if necessary, and there's no reason not to be pro-active on this one.
Most player interviews are boring cliché fests.
If the GPA did away with them permanently, it would be a good move.
I see Pat Gilroy is picking up Bernard Brogans man of the match for him because of this media ban.
So lads, if, like some of you say, most of the county players werent interested in the GPA why was there no interviews today?
Kildare and Dublin are virtually all members. When I said I knew several high profile inter county players who aren't members. Dublin isn't a county I was referring to. More's the pity. But Dessie would have huge influence in the Dublin squad for obvious reasons.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 12, 2009, 06:31:07 PM
Kildare and Dublin are virtually all members. When I said I knew several high profile inter county players who aren't members. Dublin isn't a county I was referring to. More's the pity. But Dessie would have huge influence in the Dublin squad for obvious reasons.
Must be the same with the waterford and tipp.
Probably why those games were picked?
I dont know though, if I was a high profile player I would be making sure the country knew I was
not involved in the GPA.
Kerry and Kilkenny wouldn't have huge representation in the GPA. Could you honestly imagine a kilkenny hurler going on strike with the depth of talent they have ? Cody would just shake his hand and say good luck. A lot of the Kerry players just don't bother with them.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on July 12, 2009, 06:16:00 PM
So lads, if, like some of you say, most of the county players werent interested in the GPA why was there no interviews today?
I'd say on a lot of panels, 5 or 6 players might be strong GPA militants while the rest will just go with the flow.
If I was 19 or 20 years old and trying to establish myself, I'd keep my head down and not cross swords with senior players who have a bee in their bonnet.
I was wondering then about Paddy Bradley yesterday - is he not a GPA member? Or was it just finals?
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on July 12, 2009, 08:00:03 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on July 12, 2009, 06:16:00 PM
So lads, if, like some of you say, most of the county players werent interested in the GPA why was there no interviews today?
I'd say on a lot of panels, 5 or 6 players might be strong GPA militants while the rest will just go with the flow.
If I was 19 or 20 years old and trying to establish myself, I'd keep my head down and not cross swords with senior players who have a bee in their bonnet.
You can understand the young lads keeping their heads down but if there's more senior players you would think they'd open their mouths.
JMohan, it was just the leinster and munster finals.
Thanks Pints -
Ok ... it isn't a big deal ... but I notice more and more public comment starting to swing against the GPA now ... even the TV3 commentators seemed to be more pro GAA.
A very good point was made about it starting to be very personal on the GPA side ... I think there may be a little truth in that.
I though Pariac Duffy made some very good points about not making sense to fund an organization outside the GAA... this was contrasted with a Dessie comment about their policy changing from day to day or something like that ...
Quote from: INDIANA on July 12, 2009, 07:44:56 PM
Kerry and Kilkenny wouldn't have huge representation in the GPA. Could you honestly imagine a kilkenny hurler going on strike with the depth of talent they have ? Cody would just shake his hand and say good luck. A lot of the Kerry players just don't bother with them.
He might'nt even shake his hand.
Quote from: orangeman on July 12, 2009, 09:22:10 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on July 12, 2009, 07:44:56 PM
Kerry and Kilkenny wouldn't have huge representation in the GPA. Could you honestly imagine a kilkenny hurler going on strike with the depth of talent they have ? Cody would just shake his hand and say good luck. A lot of the Kerry players just don't bother with them.
He might'nt even shake his hand.
You're not wrong there
There's a bit coming up about Kerry and the GPA on the Sunday game.
Why Do'C was the only guy not to join ....
Quote from: JMohan on July 12, 2009, 09:36:02 PM
Why Do'C was the only guy not to join ....
This must have been way at the start of the GPA thing.
If a payer hasn't the manners to accept his man of the match award then it should be withheld.
Quote from: magpie seanie on July 12, 2009, 10:05:21 PM
If a payer hasn't the manners to accept his man of the match award then it should be withheld.
They are only making eejits of themselves - is there really anybody too annoyed that Brogan or Mc Geeney didn't come out to do an interview ?????
Don't think so - nobody gives a shit.
Quote from: JMohan on July 12, 2009, 01:34:04 PM
McGeeney won't do any interviews today ... GPA member/supporter ...
Am I the only one who finds that ironic?
disgrace that your manager would not speak to the media, mcgeeney needs to wiseup as he only letting himself down
Quote from: gerry on July 12, 2009, 10:20:53 PM
Quote from: JMohan on July 12, 2009, 01:34:04 PM
McGeeney won't do any interviews today ... GPA member/supporter ...
Am I the only one who finds that ironic?
disgrace that your manager would not speak to the media, mcgeeney needs to wiseup as he only letting himself down
Exactly - they're only making eejits of themselves. And losing friends and respect. How much MORE is Mc Geeney looking ?
Quote from: orangeman on July 12, 2009, 10:11:48 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on July 12, 2009, 10:05:21 PM
If a payer hasn't the manners to accept his man of the match award then it should be withheld.
They are only making eejits of themselves - is there really anybody too annoyed that Brogan or Mc Geeney didn't come out to do an interview ?????
Don't think so - nobody gives a shit.
Yes, I agree but surely RTE must be a bit miffed.
Dara O'Cinnéide just used the exact phrase I think of when I think of the GPA, Dessie and all the public utterances by their members on the subject of playing intercounty football and hurling.
"Joyless pursuit".
He said one of the reasons he didn't join the GPA was that he felt they were making out it was a chore to play for your county.
If some of them would smile every now and again and lose this stern, militant demeanour they might win a bit more favour.
Quote from: Jinxy on July 12, 2009, 10:55:59 PM
Dara O'Cinnéide just used the exact phrase I think of when I think of the GPA, Dessie and all the public utterances by their members on the subject of playing intercounty football and hurling.
"Joyless pursuit".
He said one of the reasons he didn't join the GPA was that he felt they were making out it was a chore to play for your county.
If some of them would smile every now and again and lose this stern, militant demeanour they might win a bit more favour.
Dessie must be taking lessons from Mc Geeney ! ;)
O'Grady talking about Ronaldo and John Terry just shows the fantasy world the GPA and their spokespeople are living in.
Quote from: orangeman on July 12, 2009, 11:00:43 PM
O'Grady talking about Ronaldo and John Terry just shows the fantasy world the GPA and their spokespeople are living in.
O'Grady made an awful tit of himself, Cahill had to pull him into line with the complete shite he was talking.
Quote from: magpie seanie on July 12, 2009, 11:03:52 PM
Quote from: orangeman on July 12, 2009, 11:00:43 PM
O'Grady talking about Ronaldo and John Terry just shows the fantasy world the GPA and their spokespeople are living in.
O'Grady made an awful tit of himself, Cahill had to pull him into line with the complete shite he was talking.
He was obviously scripted to raise certain issues. He started to waffle about players injuries etc and was rightly pulled by the other 3 before he got a chance to finish.
But lads, the fella selling hot dogs in Croke Park is getting paid! :D
Anyone who ever says this out loud should be slapped quite hard across the puss and told to wise up.
Note: David Brady used this exact argument on TV3 today.
At least Mc Stay put an end to the notion that the GPA will get 5% or any %. He rightly says that the 5% is a line in the sand that can't be crossed.
Quote from: Jinxy on July 12, 2009, 11:12:57 PM
But lads, the fella selling hot dogs in Croke Park is getting paid! :D
Anyone who ever says this out loud should be slapped quite hard across the puss and told to wise up.
Note: David Brady used this exact argument on TV3 today.
You have to be taking the piss! No way did he say not! Surely!
What else was said? What's this about Ronaldo and Terry? Who argued against and said what?
Quote from: pintsofguinness on July 12, 2009, 11:25:28 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on July 12, 2009, 11:12:57 PM
But lads, the fella selling hot dogs in Croke Park is getting paid! :D
Anyone who ever says this out loud should be slapped quite hard across the puss and told to wise up.
Note: David Brady used this exact argument on TV3 today.
You have to be taking the piss! No way did he say not! Surely!
What else was said? What's this about Ronaldo and Terry? Who argued against and said what?
He did indeed say it.
And it wasn't the first time I heard someone say it either.
The mind boggles. ::)
Quote from: Jinxy on July 12, 2009, 10:55:59 PM
Dara O'Cinnéide just used the exact phrase I think of when I think of the GPA, Dessie and all the public utterances by their members on the subject of playing intercounty football and hurling.
"Joyless pursuit".
He said one of the reasons he didn't join the GPA was that he felt they were making out it was a chore to play for your county.
If some of them would smile every now and again and lose this stern, militant demeanour they might win a bit more favour.
absolutely
does anyone have a list of GPA members per county? or is it on a need to know basis?
Why is David Brady on TV3 and on Newstalk?
Because he slags off Dublin on a regular basis thus generating loads of angry text messages for Newstalk.
Quotedoes anyone have a list of GPA members per county? or is it on a need to know basis?
Well if you were to believe the GPA all you have to do is stand outside your local Dole office and you will see them all signing on the Jobseekers Allowance. Poor Jayo got injured yesterday but you will not see him in line though, he works as marketing manager for Louis Fitzgerald who along with Charlie Chawlke are bidding to buy Newcastle Football Club having previously owned Sunderland. I don't think they have any members per county because if they had Kieron Shannon would not have wrote in yesterdays paper that they needed 50,000 euro a month to keep the association going until they got funding. Trying to find out how many members the GPA have is almost as dificult as the job Jayo has, trying to sell rooms in a hotel in off the road beside McCormack MacNaughtons plant and machinery yard at Newlands Cross.
In fairness Bud, I think the subs for GPA membership is a pittance, so they can't rely on that for revenue. I'd say the economic times are hurting them at administrative level as companies are less likely to spend much marketing money now. Also, backing a divisive group like the GPA is a bit risky in PR terms. You'd want to be fairly sure of your ground that the majority of your demographic supports them, otherwise it might hurt.
(I always buy Lucozade Sport rather than Club Energise for example).
I thought O'Grady was poor last night. Why is it always the Cork lads? :)
Dara O'Cinneide was impressive. He struck a few chords with me. He was conciliatory, pragmatic, but realistic. He stated that he trust the GPA are not about professionalism, which I think we all have to take them at their word because calling lads liars is pointless, but is still unsure about their motives. He said that they need to lighten up essentially, and that it is a privilege to pull on your county jersey, which it is. He also credited them as being a significant voice, and with advancing player welfare, but he also said the GAA's offer was very generous, and would guarantee that the GPA could function withing the Association proper. I agreed with almost everything he said.
Maith thu Dara.
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 13, 2009, 11:57:21 AM
In fairness Bud, I think the subs for GPA membership is a pittance, so they can't rely on that for revenue. I'd say the economic times are hurting them at administrative level as companies are less likely to spend much marketing money now. Also, backing a divisive group like the GPA is a bit risky in PR terms. You'd want to be fairly sure of your ground that the majority of your demographic supports them, otherwise it might hurt.
(I always buy Lucozade Sport rather than Club Energise for example).
I thought O'Grady was poor last night. Why is it always the Cork lads? :)
Dara O'Cinneide was impressive. He struck a few chords with me. He was conciliatory, pragmatic, but realistic. He stated that he trust the GPA are not about professionalism, which I think we all have to take them at their word because calling lads liars is pointless, but is still unsure about their motives. He said that they need to lighten up essentially, and that it is a privilege to pull on your county jersey, which it is. He also credited them as being a significant voice, and with advancing player welfare, but he also said the GAA's offer was very generous, and would guarantee that the GPA could function withing the Association proper. I agreed with almost everything he said.
Maith thu Dara.
Why do you think the strikers loved O'Grady so much ?.
Dara O'Cinneide was measured in his aproach. His arguments were sound and rational. Finding a way around Dara's arguments will be very difficult.
Was appalled by O Gradys comments. Seemed to be advocating pay for play. Typical Cork.
O'Grady is chairman of the hurling selection committee for the OPEL/GPA Player of the Month awards and also the Annual awards at the end of the year!!
Quote from: laoisgaa on July 13, 2009, 01:34:55 PM
O'Grady is chairman of the hurling selection committee for the OPEL/GPA Player of the Month awards and also the Annual awards at the end of the year!!
You' never have guessed that.
He's thinking about a few yoyos as well !! ;)
Loo$$er McGeeney was no loss to the post match interviews... fair play to the other managers for not letting the GPA bulls**t influence them.
McGeeney's a member of the GPA isn't he? Sure he could hardly break the picket. I wouldn't have expected him to.
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 13, 2009, 02:27:22 PM
McGeeney's a member of the GPA isn't he? Sure he could hardly break the picket. I wouldn't have expected him to.
Former secretary I believe.
But does McGeeney play or is it a GPMA??
turns out the odd time for na fianna.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 13, 2009, 02:38:17 PM
turns out the odd time for na fianna.
Na Fianna first team ??
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 13, 2009, 02:27:22 PM
McGeeney's a member of the GPA isn't he? Sure he could hardly break the picket. I wouldn't have expected him to.
There was an interview with Geezer in the Irish News this morning so his silence didn't last too long.
The GPA ban was only to 'broadcast' partners of the GAA for the Leinster and Munster finals yesterday. The players were giving print interviews all week.
Is McGeeney supporting the footballers so that when the Managers strike in order to get a small grant or better mileage allowances he would like the players to support him?
Quote from: JMohan on July 13, 2009, 02:57:48 PM
Is McGeeney supporting the footballers so that when the Managers strike in order to get a small grant or better mileage allowances he would like the players to support him?
He will hardly need it.
Which is why I find it ironic
And why the whole thing is a joke ...
Quote from: orangeman on July 12, 2009, 10:28:07 PM
Quote from: gerry on July 12, 2009, 10:20:53 PM
Quote from: JMohan on July 12, 2009, 01:34:04 PM
McGeeney won't do any interviews today ... GPA member/supporter ...
Am I the only one who finds that ironic?
disgrace that your manager would not speak to the media, mcgeeney needs to wiseup as he only letting himself down
Exactly - they're only making eejits of themselves. And losing friends and respect. How much MORE is Mc Geeney looking ?
Is he a Full-time GAA manager BTW?
Quote from: JMohan on July 13, 2009, 03:08:05 PM
Quote from: orangeman on July 12, 2009, 10:28:07 PM
Quote from: gerry on July 12, 2009, 10:20:53 PM
Quote from: JMohan on July 12, 2009, 01:34:04 PM
McGeeney won't do any interviews today ... GPA member/supporter ...
Am I the only one who finds that ironic?
disgrace that your manager would not speak to the media, mcgeeney needs to wiseup as he only letting himself down
Exactly - they're only making eejits of themselves. And losing friends and respect. How much MORE is Mc Geeney looking ?
Is he a Full-time GAA manager BTW?
Full time expenses anyways. ;)
Well then he should be doing interviews
There's no doubt that Mc Geeney believes in the GPA cause and he's well entitled to. But he's not a player anymore as far as the GPA are concerned. He / they are using sympathisers to get their message across when they'd be far better off just sitting down with the GAA and follow on from the discussions that took place last night on the Sunday game. The GPA have made progress but they risk losing support and alienating people by engaging in silly, school boy tactics like refusing to talk to RTE or accepting a MOM award.
What do you reason is in it for McGeeney then to be siding with the gpa Orangeman?
Quote from: Aghdavoyle on July 13, 2009, 03:25:12 PM
What do you reason is in it for McGeeney then to be siding with the gpa Orangeman?
He's helping to turn the screw - doing his bit for the GPA and all of those who stand to gain from the 5% ( which isn't going to materialise ). Mc Geeney has always stuck to his guns and it's no surprise that he's backing up an organisation to which he has been aligned for a long time. Mc Geeney has awalys taken a very,professional and conscientious approach to the game and for that he deserves credit.
Quote from: orangeman on July 13, 2009, 03:30:41 PM
Quote from: Aghdavoyle on July 13, 2009, 03:25:12 PM
What do you reason is in it for McGeeney then to be siding with the gpa Orangeman?
He's helping to turn the screw - doing his bit for the GPA and all of those who stand to gain from the 5% ( which isn't going to materialise ). Mc Geeney has always stuck to his guns and it's no surprise that he's backing up an organisation to which he has been aligned for a long time. Mc Geeney has awalys taken a very,professional and conscientious approach to the game and for that he deserves credit.
Well he was
'in receipt of' allegedly sorry .... he was 'in support' of pay for play when he was with Armagh ... and it's alleged he is being rewarded financially to manage Kildare currently so he can't really do otherwise other than support the GPA!
Otherwise he could be called a hypocrite.
Quote from: JMohan on July 13, 2009, 03:44:04 PM
Quote from: orangeman on July 13, 2009, 03:30:41 PM
Quote from: Aghdavoyle on July 13, 2009, 03:25:12 PM
What do you reason is in it for McGeeney then to be siding with the gpa Orangeman?
He's helping to turn the screw - doing his bit for the GPA and all of those who stand to gain from the 5% ( which isn't going to materialise ). Mc Geeney has always stuck to his guns and it's no surprise that he's backing up an organisation to which he has been aligned for a long time. Mc Geeney has awalys taken a very,professional and conscientious approach to the game and for that he deserves credit.
Well he was 'in receipt of' allegedly sorry .... he was 'in support' of pay for play when he was with Armagh ... and it's alleged he is being rewarded financially to manage Kildare currently so he can't really do otherwise other than support the GPA!
Otherwise he could be called a hypocrite.
Got a source on that have you??
Do you not think he is?
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on July 13, 2009, 03:50:31 PM
Quote from: JMohan on July 13, 2009, 03:44:04 PM
Quote from: orangeman on July 13, 2009, 03:30:41 PM
Quote from: Aghdavoyle on July 13, 2009, 03:25:12 PM
What do you reason is in it for McGeeney then to be siding with the gpa Orangeman?
He's helping to turn the screw - doing his bit for the GPA and all of those who stand to gain from the 5% ( which isn't going to materialise ). Mc Geeney has always stuck to his guns and it's no surprise that he's backing up an organisation to which he has been aligned for a long time. Mc Geeney has awalys taken a very,professional and conscientious approach to the game and for that he deserves credit.
Well he was 'in receipt of' allegedly sorry .... he was 'in support' of pay for play when he was with Armagh ... and it's alleged he is being rewarded financially to manage Kildare currently so he can't really do otherwise other than support the GPA!
Otherwise he could be called a hypocrite.
Got a source on that have you??
No ... hence the word 'allegedly'
But then again 'officially' no GAA Managers get paid and they all do it for free and for love of the game
Quote from: magpie seanie on July 13, 2009, 03:52:51 PM
Do you not think he is?
I don't know whether he is or he isn't, but nobody else on here knows either. I just don't think people should be throwing around rumours as if they are facts.
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on July 13, 2009, 04:17:10 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on July 13, 2009, 03:52:51 PM
Do you not think he is?
I don't know whether he is or he isn't, but nobody else on here knows either. I just don't think people should be throwing around rumours as if they are facts.
given kildares history ....
yer having a laugh !
as for McGeeney, he did have a very 'professional ' attitude when playing, including only drinking tap water when in pubs etc
- he didnt have to do this, but he chose to ! He had plenty of big sacrifices throughout his career, but that doesnt merit players getting paid !
but this professionalism and football career has served him well as he has got a big team managers job with no experience whatsoever !...with the 'travel' expenses to go with it
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 13, 2009, 05:28:35 PM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on July 13, 2009, 04:17:10 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on July 13, 2009, 03:52:51 PM
Do you not think he is?
I don't know whether he is or he isn't, but nobody else on here knows either. I just don't think people should be throwing around rumours as if they are facts.
given kildares history ....
yer having a laugh !
as for McGeeney, he did have a very 'professional ' attitude when playing, including only drinking tap water when in pubs etc
- he didnt have to do this, but he chose to ! He had plenty of big sacrifices throughout his career, but that doesnt merit players getting paid !
but this professionalism and football career has served him well as he has got a big team managers job with no experience whatsoever !...with the 'travel' expenses to go with it
Well Micko was only on travel expenses too Lynchboy ...
Not all managers are paid. Some are. Ironically the big jobs entail no pay where as some lower down the scale can command some substantial fees. Kilkenny hurling, kerry football, tyrone football, dublin football, tipp hurling-, cork none of those managers get paid.
Truthfully no one knows apart from the person themselves ...
I have doubts about two of those you mention at least Indiana
Quote from: INDIANA on July 13, 2009, 05:50:23 PM
Not all managers are paid. Some are. Ironically the big jobs entail no pay where as some lower down the scale can command some substantial fees. Kilkenny hurling, kerry football, tyrone football, dublin football, tipp hurling-, cork none of those managers get paid.
Did some one not give up a teaching position so they could concentrate on managing their county full time?
Quote from: JMohan on July 13, 2009, 05:54:20 PM
Truthfully no one knows apart from the person themselves ...
I have doubts about two of those you mention at least Indiana
I know for a fact the Dublin manager gets SFA. I know Cody gets nothing either. Those are definites. I'm pretty sure Frank Murphy wouldn't pay any shekels and I know Paidi got nothing to manage kerry. Maybe things are different now. ;D
Quote from: joebloggs on July 13, 2009, 05:58:59 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on July 13, 2009, 05:50:23 PM
Not all managers are paid. Some are. Ironically the big jobs entail no pay where as some lower down the scale can command some substantial fees. Kilkenny hurling, kerry football, tyrone football, dublin football, tipp hurling-, cork none of those managers get paid.
Did some one not give up a teaching position so they could concentrate on managing their county full time?
The current Monaghan trainer you mean?
Also read Pat O'Sheas book and see what he said - not full time professional - but his time was covered.
And that was what was admitted to ...
What does Mickey Harte do?
The Dublin manager gets nothing from the County Board I'd be sure - neither do does the Cork\Kilkenny manager
- But sure it's NEVER the county board who pay the bills - what do you think 'Supporters Clubs' are for?
It is only a matter of time before the taxman cometh and when he does there will be serious repercussions. Right now there are serious investigations going on among some of those who were lording it over the rest of us and jail terms are being handed out for any form of Social Welfare fraud, tax fraud or abuse of Benifit In Kind. Houses are on the line along with prison sentences and that is fact and sooner or later when things go sour in some county and the shit hits the fan someone is going to be made an example of. You can't have on one side of the paper, 'Mother of six children gets two years for undeclared income or social welfare fraud while the 'Manager' thinks he can earn 100,000 a year in income and perks on the sly and get away with it.
Does anyone remember the famous Dub who turned manager and said on RTE when asked why he would comit to travelling to a different county and go through all the trouble to manage another county team and he said, because I get forty thousand pounds for it, before immediately trying to retract it.
The money being spent by County Boards on high profile managers would be better spent looking after former intercounty players. I know one Offaly lad, an All-Star hurler who is retired since he played in his last All-Ireland and that was years ago. Today he is in plaster and still going through operations for damage to his leg and not one source has offered him one penny to help him. Disgraceful.
If there are to be high profile managers brought into other counties like the travelling messiah, O'Dwyer, then the GAA should select all the weaker counties and pay for and allocate managers to bring these counties up to the standards required to compete in the top levels. Or are we reaching a level where an All-Ireland will soon be bought by the county having the most sponsorship and the highest paid manager?
Quote from: JMohan on July 13, 2009, 06:09:44 PM
Quote from: joebloggs on July 13, 2009, 05:58:59 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on July 13, 2009, 05:50:23 PM
Not all managers are paid. Some are. Ironically the big jobs entail no pay where as some lower down the scale can command some substantial fees. Kilkenny hurling, kerry football, tyrone football, dublin football, tipp hurling-, cork none of those managers get paid.
Did some one not give up a teaching position so they could concentrate on managing their county full time?
The current Monaghan trainer you mean?
Also read Pat O'Sheas book and see what he said - not full time professional - but his time was covered.
And that was what was admitted to ...
What does Mickey Harte do?
The Dublin manager gets nothing from the County Board I'd be sure - neither do does the Cork\Kilkenny manager
- But sure it's NEVER the county board who pay the bills - what do you think 'Supporters Clubs' are for?
Micky Harte is an Auctioneer and I would be very suprised if he was getting paid to manage Tyrone
The payment of managers is a bugbear of mine and it was actually the blind eye turned to this whilst others griped about a player grant that annoyed me most. I know of clubs in Tyrone that aren't what you would call high profile who pay big dough to an outsider to tell them where to run. Conway's club, Kildress, have a long line of high profile outsiders, dating right back to the 70s. I'm sure there wasn't much volunteerism there or love of the club.
Is there much in the way of payment to players at club level, I suppose especially those who are working in foreign climes?
Moy paid Peter Loughran £100,000 to pull on the sky blue jersey.
Peter Loughran had to pay the Moy £250,000 after they seen his shooting!! :D :D :D
Quote from: ONeill on July 14, 2009, 09:17:56 AM
Is there much in the way of payment to players at club level, I suppose especially those who are working in foreign climes?
It's rampant at club level in Dublin - mainly for players from other counties transferring to clubs, there have been cases of Dublin players transferring and getting paid for it.
The Gaelic Players Association are expected to meet today to hold talks on whether or not to continue their television and radio blackout.
GPA members refused to give pre or post-match interviews, in advance or after Sunday's Leinster football and Munster hurling finals and are expected to decide on their course of action for Sunday's Ulster and Connacht football finals.
The protest comes on the back of the GPA's efforts to gain official recognition from the GAA and a five per cent share of gate receipts, television revenue and sponsorship money.
The GAA have categorically ruled the 5% figure out, instead, offering to cover the association's administration costs.
Payment to managers is the accepted practice in every county in Ireland at this stage, not every club does it and not every county does it but it is widespread and nobody that I know of complains about it. Are all the lads bitching about it here the only defenders of the true amatuer, volunteer faith? And if so why don't you raise this issue in your clubs and county conventions? Do any of you coach teams, are any of you going to the sports tracker coaching conference in July, or doing the various GAA coaching courses etc.? The main reason some clubs pay coaches is because they can't get anyone from their own club to do it, it appears some lads would prefer to see GAA coaches jailed rather than doing a bit of coaching themselves.
Quote from: heffo on July 14, 2009, 09:43:22 AM
Quote from: ONeill on July 14, 2009, 09:17:56 AM
Is there much in the way of payment to players at club level, I suppose especially those who are working in foreign climes?
It's rampant at club level in Dublin - mainly for players from other counties transferring to clubs, there have been cases of Dublin players transferring and getting paid for it.
And in two cases 2 Dublin players going to a Meath club ... oh yeh ... allegedly
Quote from: tyronefan on July 14, 2009, 09:14:56 AM
Quote from: JMohan on July 13, 2009, 06:09:44 PM
Quote from: joebloggs on July 13, 2009, 05:58:59 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on July 13, 2009, 05:50:23 PM
Not all managers are paid. Some are. Ironically the big jobs entail no pay where as some lower down the scale can command some substantial fees. Kilkenny hurling, kerry football, tyrone football, dublin football, tipp hurling-, cork none of those managers get paid.
Did some one not give up a teaching position so they could concentrate on managing their county full time?
The current Monaghan trainer you mean?
Also read Pat O'Sheas book and see what he said - not full time professional - but his time was covered.
And that was what was admitted to ...
What does Mickey Harte do?
The Dublin manager gets nothing from the County Board I'd be sure - neither do does the Cork\Kilkenny manager
- But sure it's NEVER the county board who pay the bills - what do you think 'Supporters Clubs' are for?
Micky Harte is an Auctioneer and I would be very suprised if he was getting paid to manage Tyrone
The 'Supporters Club' don't contribute towards his 'expenses' then?
In response to a private message I got - "was that Tommy Carr you were talking about" the answer is no, it was Charlie Redmond on RTE. Tommy Carr does it for the sake of the ould GAA.
QuoteDo any of you coach teams, are any of you going to the sports tracker coaching conference in July, or doing the various GAA coaching courses etc.? The main reason some clubs pay coaches is because they can't get anyone from their own club to do it, it appears some lads would prefer to see GAA coaches jailed rather than doing a bit of coaching themselves.
How many counties have won AIF's in the last ten years with managers from outside their counties???? There are lots of potential, and that potential having being hard earned, boys from local clubs who were undermined before they were even given a tracksuit by the threat of imports. Many of these men have retired from every aspect of the game, even attending matches, many of them would rather see the Pro's drinking from a straw than an Energiser bottle and when the championship is reduced to three or four real contenders they, like Gerald McCarthey will be better entertained sitting at home watching Judge Judy.
Quote from: JMohan on July 14, 2009, 02:31:21 PM
The 'Supporters Club' don't contribute towards his 'expenses' then?
At the risk of repeating myself, Club Tyrone do not give Mickey Harte any money.
Quote from: Bud Wiser on July 14, 2009, 08:35:28 PM
In response to a private message I got - "was that Tommy Carr you were talking about" the answer is no, it was Charlie Redmond on RTE. Tommy Carr does it for the sake of the ould GAA.
QuoteDo any of you coach teams, are any of you going to the sports tracker coaching conference in July, or doing the various GAA coaching courses etc.? The main reason some clubs pay coaches is because they can't get anyone from their own club to do it, it appears some lads would prefer to see GAA coaches jailed rather than doing a bit of coaching themselves.
When did he say that Bud??
Quote from: Rois on July 14, 2009, 09:57:32 PM
Quote from: JMohan on July 14, 2009, 02:31:21 PM
The 'Supporters Club' don't contribute towards his 'expenses' then?
At the risk of repeating myself, Club Tyrone do not give Mickey Harte any money.
[/quo
Club Tyrone have an audit report and the last report I saw did not include any payment to Mickey Harte. Mickey works as an estate agent.
QuoteHow many counties have won AIF's in the last ten years with managers from outside their counties?
That's not a credible argument since most of the strong counties wouldn't allow an outsider take their county team even when it might benefit them to do so. Outside managers normally take the weaker teams so they are unlikely to win an AI but many of them have done quite well with the counties they've had.
QuoteThere are lots of potential, and that potential having being hard earned, boys from local clubs who were undermined before they were even given a tracksuit by the threat of imports.
What evidence is there for that statement? In my experience clubs would prefer if they could appoint someone from within but many don't have the coaches with the necessary ability or the people wiling to make the commitment.
Tbh I'm getting a bit sick of hearing people who aren't doing any coaching themselves giving out about coaches who get paid. I do a lot of coaching myself and although I've never got paid for it I don't begrudge anyone that has, because it is a tough number and if you're good at it you'll be in demand.
Quote from: Zulu on July 14, 2009, 10:26:56 PM
QuoteHow many counties have won AIF's in the last ten years with managers from outside their counties?
That's not a credible argument since most of the strong counties wouldn't allow an outsider take their county team even when it might benefit them to do so. Outside managers normally take the weaker teams so they are unlikely to win an AI but many of them have done quite well with the counties they've had.
QuoteThere are lots of potential, and that potential having being hard earned, boys from local clubs who were undermined before they were even given a tracksuit by the threat of imports.
What evidence is there for that statement? In my experience clubs would prefer if they could appoint someone from within but many don't have the coaches with the necessary ability or the people wiling to make the commitment.
Tbh I'm getting a bit sick of hearing people who aren't doing any coaching themselves giving out about coaches who get paid. I do a lot of coaching myself and although I've never got paid for it I don't begrudge anyone that has, because it is a tough number and if you're good at it you'll be in demand.
You'll never be a prophet in your own town.
I don't agree Zulu. i can only comment from Dublin's club scene. And often clubs ignore their own and rake out the shekels for outsiders. I know several club managers who are being paid within Dublin and but I can't name them because there is no documentary proof. But they some of them are being paid.
There are also several players being paid. Vincents don't pay either players or managers. That I do know for a fact even though we've had outside players. But other clubs don't have the same ethics.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 14, 2009, 10:32:29 PM
I don't agree Zulu. i can only comment from Dublin's club scene. And often clubs ignore their own and rake out the shekels for outsiders. I know several club managers who are being paid within Dublin and but I can't name them because there is no documentary proof. But they some of them are being paid.
There are also several players being paid. Vincents don't pay either players or managers. That I do know for a fact even though we've had outside players. But other clubs don't have the same ethics.
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Vincents have a policy for a long number of years NOT to accept outsiders and concentrated on their own players ?? Obviously this has changed recently and Vincents do have outsiders but they refuse to pay players and managers.
Yeah people left vincents over it and have never returned. Ciaran Barr was the first outsider and it caused ructions within the club. Just don't have the number anymore to turn down anybody. there are about 7 clubs in a 5mile radius where we are. We have at best 4 adult football teams at a push- the likes of kilmacud have 8 and possibly even nine.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 14, 2009, 11:28:59 PM
Yeah people left vincents over it and have never returned. Ciaran Barr was the first outsider and it caused ructions within the club. Just don't have the number anymore to turn down anybody. there are about 7 clubs in a 5mile radius where we are. We have at best 4 adult football teams at a push- the likes of kilmacud have 8 and possibly even nine.
[/b]
And it goes without saying that Kilmacud have more money !!
QuoteI don't agree Zulu. i can only comment from Dublin's club scene. And often clubs ignore their own and rake out the shekels for outsiders.
I can only comment on what I have experienced myself but I know a number of clubs that hadn't managers by the time the championship started. Managing or coaching a team can be a demanding past time and both players and supporters expect far more now than they did in the past so I don't think it is unreasonable for lads to get paid for doing it even if it is somewhat regrettable that they are.
Quote from: Zulu on July 15, 2009, 12:06:39 AM
QuoteI don't agree Zulu. i can only comment from Dublin's club scene. And often clubs ignore their own and rake out the shekels for outsiders.
I can only comment on what I have experienced myself but I know a number of clubs that hadn't managers by the time the championship started. Managing or coaching a team can be a demanding past time and both players and supporters expect far more now than they did in the past so I don't think it is unreasonable for lads to get paid for doing it even if it is somewhat regrettable that they are.
You'd be surprsied what's on offer up here. I doubt clubs down the country are paying anything like the same rate. Playing is possibly even more proitable. I know 2 players who shall remain nameless getting about 20k each Thats nice work if you can get it.
Quote from: orangeman on July 14, 2009, 11:15:31 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on July 14, 2009, 10:32:29 PM
I don't agree Zulu. i can only comment from Dublin's club scene. And often clubs ignore their own and rake out the shekels for outsiders. I know several club managers who are being paid within Dublin and but I can't name them because there is no documentary proof. But they some of them are being paid.
There are also several players being paid. Vincents don't pay either players or managers. That I do know for a fact even though we've had outside players. But other clubs don't have the same ethics.
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Vincents have a policy for a long number of years NOT to accept outsiders and concentrated on their own players ?? Obviously this has changed recently and Vincents do have outsiders but they refuse to pay players and managers.
Ahem - Micheal O'Se
Quote from: DuffleKing on July 15, 2009, 09:01:44 AM
Quote from: orangeman on July 14, 2009, 11:15:31 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on July 14, 2009, 10:32:29 PM
I don't agree Zulu. i can only comment from Dublin's club scene. And often clubs ignore their own and rake out the shekels for outsiders. I know several club managers who are being paid within Dublin and but I can't name them because there is no documentary proof. But they some of them are being paid.
There are also several players being paid. Vincents don't pay either players or managers. That I do know for a fact even though we've had outside players. But other clubs don't have the same ethics.
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Vincents have a policy for a long number of years NOT to accept outsiders and concentrated on their own players ?? Obviously this has changed recently and Vincents do have outsiders but they refuse to pay players and managers.
Ahem - Micheal O'Se
[/b]
What about O'Se ?
He most certainly was not paid. And if I were you I wouldn't go naming people on a public website unless you have the facts to back it up. Which I can categorcially say- you don't.
Vincent's were very stong on not taking in outsiders until the growth of the clubs that limited their catchment area. The growth and development of clubs in their area meant that they had to relent somewhat. I would be very surprised if they were in the game of poaching as it was never their style. I was with them in the late 70s, only to train and found them a very welcoming club.
My only surprise and regret was that they were so much in favour of the 'Grants' during the grants debate. Hopefully they will have changed their minds following recent statements from all parties and see the folly of their ways especially as to the ethics the club lived within for so long.
Can I go off the topic a little and pay my respect to the Vincent's club and say I am extremely grateful and priviliged for the opportunity they gave to me. The chance for a country guy to train with the greats of that time in both hurling and football was an incredible learning curve. To mark their present chairman and one of the greatest midfielders of our time Brian Mullins in the AvB games on a Wednesday evenings was my All Irelands and by God was he tough but always fair.
Hardly a word about the ban now. Amazing or is it ?? I think it tells you that most folk just don't give a shit.
The impact of the ban was never really aimed at me, you or the like.
It was aimed to have an impact on the Media partners - RTE, TV3. They pay the big money and expect player access. Plus they may be swayed to support the players if they feel they will be denied interviews etc. At the least they will debate, see the Sunday Game last Sunday.
I would expect any further ban to extend to the print media, internet, radio etc.
It was just a test last weekend.
They won't extend it now that they are in 'behind the scenes' talk
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/championship/2009/0716/oharae.html
O'Hara: Players prepared to strike
----------------------------------------------
Sligo footballer Eamonn O'Hara has threatened that players will go on strike if they don't receive adequate Government funding.
The players recently saw the Government grants scheme for senior intercounty GAA players cut by €2.5million to a new total of €1,050,000.
The GPA rejected that proposal and O'Hara, although admitting no players want a strike situation, warned that players are prepared to do so if talks between the GPA, the GAA and the Government do not result in a satisfactory breakthrough.
O'Hara said in hoganstand.com: 'If we have to go on strike, we will go on strike - that's the bottom line.
'That option was mentioned before and I'm sure it'll be mentioned again.
'It's not something any player would want, but if it comes to it - and I sincerely hope it doesn't - we would be prepared to take strike action.
'We're getting a slap in the face. This is not all about money. There's a very important point of principle here and players are not going to allow themselves to be bullied into submission.'
-------------------------------
Does anyone really believe the it's "not about money" line from any GPA member at this stage? It's been about the money from day one.
Eamon O'Hara says they're prepared to strike
I'd love them to.
The people wouldn't be long turning on them.
I wonder is he off on a solo run on this one or has he checked with Dessie first?
If GAA players go on strike...how will this force the Government's hand ??? After all isn't it a Government run "grant" scheme.
Let them strike. The GPA is sounding a bit malcontent here
Quote from: INDIANA on July 14, 2009, 10:32:29 PM
I don't agree Zulu. i can only comment from Dublin's club scene. And often clubs ignore their own and rake out the shekels for outsiders. I know several club managers who are being paid within Dublin and but I can't name them because there is no documentary proof. But they some of them are being paid.
There are also several players being paid. Vincents don't pay either players or managers. That I do know for a fact even though we've had outside players. But other clubs don't have the same ethics.
I'll have to second that - in our own club , in dublin - there are generally always outside managers appointed for the senior team, there are a few fellas that prob could do it but it has been in the past three years at least that the chairman wants to only go for outsiders.
Quote from: JMohan on July 16, 2009, 04:34:48 PM
Eamon O'Hara says they're prepared to strike
I'd love them to.
The people wouldn't be long turning on them.
I wonder is he off on a solo run on this one or has he checked with Dessie first?
jeez I'd love them to go on strike too
theres no way they will
thick and all as they are, even they are not that stupid to strike and run the risk of ruin by having the grass roots back the replacement players that each county will draft up for the county sides !
Quote from: JMohan on July 16, 2009, 04:34:48 PM
Eamon O'Hara says they're prepared to strike
I'd love them to.
The people wouldn't be long turning on them.
I wonder is he off on a solo run on this one or has he checked with Dessie first?
The government is currently proposing delights such as:
- closing all rural schools with less than five teachers
- making the parents of the children in these rural schools then pay at least €500 p.a. to transport them to whatever prefabs will be put in place in the nearest town to accommodate them
- making the parents of special needs children pay for transport to schools (as well as cutting special needs assistants in existing schools)
- cutting the old age pension by 5%
(there are a host of others but these were just the ones that stood out on a first reading of the McCarthy report)
and these lads are whinging about grants.
Are they on the same bloody planet as the rest of us?
Aye-they'll go on strike in October ::) Their egos need the profile and glory in the summer
Go on strike !! The entire executive and directors of the GPA should be turned into Artic Athletes (have their assets frozen) and they should start looking for a psychiatric nurse (Oooops) if they think that either Minister, Martin or Lenihan, is going to make an announcement that the GPA is to get grant funding after announcing today that Special Needs Children are going to have their teachers taken away, 17,000 Civil Servants are going to be put out of work, old age pensioners who retired are not to get their pension at 65 and have to wait now 'till they are 70, while the directors of GPA have their own pension fund.
As far as recognition goes, maybe it would be better if they were ignored completely because it is getting to the stage where I think we should not react to some of the rubbish they come out with, like Kieron Shannon saying "they were NOT looking for 50,000 euro a month, they were looking for 50,000 euro a month until the GAA gave them money to keep them ticking over" I'd say Tom Hogan Motors in Galway would have kept a fair few cars and jobs ticking over if he got half a million a year, jeeeeeeeeeeezus, aaaah >:( >:(
Well said Bud- they are becoming totally obnoxious and self centered at a time there is such social hardship in the country. Eamonn O'Hara's season will be over soon anyway.
Quote from: LaurelEye on July 16, 2009, 04:50:23 PM
Quote from: JMohan on July 16, 2009, 04:34:48 PM
Eamon O'Hara says they're prepared to strike
I'd love them to.
The people wouldn't be long turning on them.
I wonder is he off on a solo run on this one or has he checked with Dessie first?
The government is currently proposing delights such as:
- closing all rural schools with less than five teachers
- making the parents of the children in these rural schools then pay at least €500 p.a. to transport them to whatever prefabs will be put in place in the nearest town to accommodate them
- making the parents of special needs children pay for transport to schools (as well as cutting special needs assistants in existing schools)
- cutting the old age pension by 5%
(there are a host of others but these were just the ones that stood out on a first reading of the McCarthy report)
and these lads are whinging about grants.
Are they on the same bloody planet as the rest of us?
In relation to the grants they are whinging about themselves suffering a 58% cut where most other areas are getting cut 5% to 10%.
Quote from: Hound on July 16, 2009, 05:16:34 PM
In relation to the grants they are whinging about themselves suffering a 58% cut where most other areas are getting cut 5% to 10%.
58% of a top-up. The old-age pensioner is being cut 5% of their entire income.
Strike me arse. I've never heard such embarrassing shite from people I'd like to be able to look up to. Why do they think anyone will take a blind bit of notice if they stop indulging in their pastime until they get paid for it? They'll get the same reaction I'd get - i.e. loud guffaws and "g'way ye gobshite ye" - if I walked into The Mucky Duck tonight and announced that I'm going on strike from drinking pints until someome starts paying me to drink them. Because I'm an elite drinker, y'see. There's money flying about in the pubs all night every night and I never see a penny of it, even though the place is full of people who are there to see me drinking. That's why they're there, isn't it? I'm sure if I stopped going to the Mucky Duck the place'd be empty in no time.
But it's not about pay for drink. It's about recognition of the sacrifices I make. Monetary recognition, of course. Not pay, though.
Bud, I'll see your "jeeeeeeeeeeezus, aaaah :'( :'(" and raise you a sweet leppin divine f*** :'( :'( :'( :'(.
Sligonian for one would not be happy if O'Hara went on strike!! ;)
What a load of bullshit from the whole lot of them. What will they do on sundays when they see other people wearing their county jerseys?? Will they strike from county action or club action or what? Morons the whole lot of them I say.
Would they f**king go on strike!!
Christ I'm sick listening to them, what a crowd of arseholes - go on f**king strike and maybe we'll get a break from the bullshit.
Was disappointed with EOH comments, totally disagree with him, thing that annoys me is the Sligo players are well looked after EOH more than most over the yrs, free cars, Jobs, generous expenses which all add up to 600,000 to 700,000 to run a county team every yr. It needs huge funding to keep things running and we in Sligo just started ClubSligo which us gaels happily pay into for the cause and show our gratitude to the players so there looked after but its insult to us them getting payed IMO. I would pay alot of money to start in Tralee on Sat or play croke park. Why do they feel so hard done by to get payed. No player should be out of pocket for the effort they put in but I guarntee you none are and id say alot are in the green and it opens many doors in life.
EOH has a big game this weekend, why spout his mouth off now about something nothing to do with our mamooth task. The biggest joke is Dara McGarty being players representative GPA with the commitment he showed Sligo nothing short of a joke.
The reality I live with regards alot of county players is there in it for themselves there egos and the social status it gives them, they dont see it as what can I do for my county, its what can my county do for me. There are some heros that would die for county and I thought EOH was one of them heros but he loses alot of respect from me insinutating he would strike rather than play for us on a basis of PRINCIPLE ffs ::), swallow your pride ego and tell farrel to go f*ck himself, thats what id do. The players arent suffering hardship so whats the reasoning getting extra money?
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on July 16, 2009, 08:01:42 PM
Was disappointed with EOH comments, totally disagree with him, thing that annoys me is the Sligo players are well looked after EOH more than most over the yrs, free cars, Jobs, generous expenses which all add up to 600,000 to 700,000 to run a county team every yr. It needs huge funding to keep things running and we in Sligo just started ClubSligo which us gaels happily pay into for the cause and show our gratitude to the players so there looked after but its insult to us them getting payed IMO. I would pay alot of money to start in Tralee on Sat or play croke park. Why do they feel so hard done by to get payed. No player should be out of pocket for the effort they put in but I guarntee you none are and id say alot are in the green and it opens many doors in life.
EOH has a big game this weekend, why spout his mouth off now about something nothing to do with our mamooth task. The biggest joke is Dara McGarty being players representative GPA with the commitment he showed Sligo nothing short of a joke.
The reality I live with regards alot of county players is there in it for themselves there egos and the social status it gives them, they dont see it as what can I do for my county, its what can my county do for me. There are some heros that would die for county and I thought EOH was one of them heros but he loses alot of respect from me insinutating he would strike rather than play for us on a basis of PRINCIPLE ffs ::), swallow your pride ego and tell farrel to go f*ck himself, thats what id do. The players arent suffering hardship so whats the reasoning getting extra money?
This is being largely driven by certain players who want to be professionals. Mc Geeney showed bad form not giving an interview last week. But then you'd ask does he have a job outside training kildare?
Quote from: INDIANA on July 16, 2009, 10:50:05 PM
Quote from: SLIGONIAN on July 16, 2009, 08:01:42 PM
Was disappointed with EOH comments, totally disagree with him, thing that annoys me is the Sligo players are well looked after EOH more than most over the yrs, free cars, Jobs, generous expenses which all add up to 600,000 to 700,000 to run a county team every yr. It needs huge funding to keep things running and we in Sligo just started ClubSligo which us gaels happily pay into for the cause and show our gratitude to the players so there looked after but its insult to us them getting payed IMO. I would pay alot of money to start in Tralee on Sat or play croke park. Why do they feel so hard done by to get payed. No player should be out of pocket for the effort they put in but I guarntee you none are and id say alot are in the green and it opens many doors in life.
EOH has a big game this weekend, why spout his mouth off now about something nothing to do with our mamooth task. The biggest joke is Dara McGarty being players representative GPA with the commitment he showed Sligo nothing short of a joke.
The reality I live with regards alot of county players is there in it for themselves there egos and the social status it gives them, they dont see it as what can I do for my county, its what can my county do for me. There are some heros that would die for county and I thought EOH was one of them heros but he loses alot of respect from me insinutating he would strike rather than play for us on a basis of PRINCIPLE ffs ::), swallow your pride ego and tell farrel to go f*ck himself, thats what id do. The players arent suffering hardship so whats the reasoning getting extra money?
This is being largely driven by certain players who want to be professionals. Mc Geeney showed bad form not giving an interview last week. But then you'd ask does he have a job outside training kildare?
Doesn't need one.
Eamonn O'Hara's comment that it isn't ALL about money is interesting.
God wouldn't it be great if they went on strike ?.
I remember when the talk of a strike was raised a few years ago, Mickey Harte VERY quickly announced that Tyrone would field a team regardless made up of people who really WANTED to play for Tyrone.
The country is on it's knees and the one eternal bright spark of entertainment on the island - the GAA - is being held to ransom by a crowd of spoilt pups ... O'Hara would need to wise up and come into the real world.
As for McGeeney ... he's hardly signing on
ffs lads. Alot of us said this before, once the grants came in that there would be no shutting the f**kers up.
I argued with so many people that the grants was opening a door and f-all people listened, well fair play. (reillers)
I really hope they do strike and I hope that the greedy miserable fucks never put on a jersey again.
But on the subject, have the GAA got a pair of balls anymore ? Its high f-ing time to stop this shite and go on the offensive. Get rid of this GPA eejits now, let them strike and see who gives a shit.
Aye-please go on strike... and you will find the neither the world nor the GAA will come to a halt... spoilt is right.
well we know that a lot of the pundits and 'sportswriters' read this website
how about we start up a post or campaign to dare the GPA players to go on strike.
Yes it is high noon in the championship but imo the grass roots players/supporters/club coaches/mentors and future generations of the GAA need the gpa to see that they are NOT supported by a large majority of the organisation.
I'd dare these fcukers to GO ON STRIKE.
We want to tell them to 'go on if you think yer hard enough'
I'd take Mickey Hartes line that Tyrone WILL field a team and I'd bet a strong fecking team at that.
They might be hateful hoors but they (maybe because they have the best manager in the game) are the old style mentality of GAA Men!
I want us to start some kind of campaign asking the GPA outside for the toe to toe.
What do yez think ?
come on gpa, come on and strike if ya think yer hard enough !
I'm against ya.
They know they can't summon a strike. It's all sh1t stirring, nothing more.
Maybe they could in February, but not now when the season is reaching a boiling point. The people who would suffer most of all are the players.
Imagine Dessie and Donal called a strike for this weekend. Would the Antrim squad toe the line, or kit out for their once in a generation provinical final? That's not even a choice, not even for a Saffron GPA Ultra.
In the context of what may be to come on foot of yesterdays report from Colm McCartrhy, will anyone really give a flying f**k if lads choose not to take part in their "recreation of choice" as Mr Cooney so accurately phrased it.
I for one am far more concerned at the prospect our local 2 teacher national school being closed and the school transport scheme going from an already increased €300/head to €500/head, to name just two.
These GPA lads appear to me to be totally delusional.
Some of the leading journalists seem to back the GPA because of the obvious reason they want to keep them on board for them own articles.
What about different players go on strike if they are so committed to this. Maybe their most vocal O'Hara on Saturday... Sean Cavanagh on Sunday... Alan Brogan for the quarter final - they will find other players only too glad to wear their jerseys.
Its really getting a pain in the arse at this stage but unfortunately it'll only get worse.
I'd love to see them call a strike and see how they long it would last and now many retirements we'd have. Imagine the gobshites on TV and in the papers crying about their love of the gaa, how they only want to do their best for their county and it is hurting them so much.
There would be teams filled and intercounty matches played and well attended.
This needs to happen and when you knew the noises coming from O'Hara then its becoming clear that a strike is needed to finish off these notions of grandeur.
Anyone pick up on the Tipp Hurling captains speech on Sunday. Apart from it been dreadful, he was at pains to point out the players part in the victory (fair enough) and mentioned the 125 year anniversary. He then said that "without the players the GAA is nothing". I took it as a shoot in the direction of Croke park and the media ban in place by them.
Quote from: JMohan on July 17, 2009, 07:30:01 AM
The country is on it's knees and the one eternal bright spark of entertainment on the island - the GAA - is being held to ransom by a crowd of spoilt pups ... O'Hara would need to wise up and come into the real world.
As for McGeeney ... he's hardly signing on
Would not think so.
Quote from: bingobus on July 17, 2009, 11:48:03 AM
Its really getting a pain in the arse at this stage but unfortunately it'll only get worse.
I'd love to see them call a strike and see how they long it would last and now many retirements we'd have. Imagine the gobshites on TV and in the papers crying about their love of the gaa, how they only want to do their best for their county and it is hurting them so much.
There would be teams filled and intercounty matches played and well attended.
This needs to happen and when you knew the noises coming from O'Hara then its becoming clear that a strike is needed to finish off these notions of grandeur.
Anyone pick up on the Tipp Hurling captains speech on Sunday. Apart from it been dreadful, he was at pains to point out the players part in the victory (fair enough) and mentioned the 125 year anniversary. He then said that "without the players the GAA is nothing". I took it as a shoot in the direction of Croke park and the media ban in place by them.
or without the paying supporters, club volunteers, men who take youngsters to play underage games, ticket sellers, club groundsmen... these players think the world revolves around them.
Bingobus- how correct you are when you mentioned the Tipperary captain's speech. It has to go down as the worst in living memory and probably the worst in the 125 year history. What a foolish young man and time will lead him to regret his total speech. I suppose he felt he left his mark! he did and for him it was on him.
I see Halifax, the GPA Sponsor is closing up all the ESB shops they bought and pulling out of Ireland.
Any comments on this letter in the Independent?
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/why-gpa-is-playing-a-dangerous-game-1807354.html (http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/why-gpa-is-playing-a-dangerous-game-1807354.html)
Thanks for that - great letter!
Did Eamonn O'Hara (Sligo) commence his 'Strike' before or after yesterday's game in Tralee?
I wonder will sean get kicked out for being on the sunday game tonight ;)
Is this strike still going on?
Aongus Callaghan talked to RTE last night accepting his MOM
Strike was only for Leinster Football Final and Munster Hurling final games
Quote from: Carbery on July 19, 2009, 10:37:25 PM
Did Eamonn O'Hara (Sligo) commence his 'Strike' before or after yesterday's game in Tralee?
I'd say sometime after Dara O Se gave him a puck ;D ;D ;D
GOOD TO SEE COLM FIGHTING THE GOOD FIGHT !!!!!!!! ;) :D :D
How GAA ignored warnings of player unrest
In the first of our three-part series, Colm Keys analyses the birth of the GPA and the roots of an age-old conflict The background The conflict Milestones Search for recognition
By colm keys
Tuesday July 21 2009
The warning: Glenn Ryan gathered his kit bag and then turned, with the evidence clasped between his fingers now compounding his ire. Ryan's Kildare had just lost a second replay of their Leinster championship semi-final trilogy with Meath and the feeling was raw.
What had just been pressed into his hand however made it that bit worse.
The three games had drawn in excess of 130,000 to Croke Park over two weeks and now the tangible gratitude being shown to Ryan was a pair of vouchers for two pints in a bar somewhere above him in the labyrinth of the new Cusack Stand.
The Kildare captain unfurled the tickets from his palm like a detective unveiling evidence from a gruesome crime.
That was 1997, more than two years before the embryo of the Gaelic Players Association first surfaced in Belfast and perhaps a prime example of where the main players in the great drama that is Gaelic Games stood in the overall scheme of things.
Post-match entertainment hardly constitutes player welfare and Ryan's fury was clearly coloured by the hurt of defeat. But it was indicative of the time. Once the gladiators had performed, they were sent on their way with just enough vouchers to kill a thirst.
For sure, it was more than a player might have got in a match at some other provincial ground. And there were far greater shortcomings that players faced on other 'welfare' fronts.
But this was Croke Park, revamped to the highest specification on one side with plans to complete the process over the next five years. This was a football championship now sponsored by one of the country's leading banks and Ryan had just discarded a soaking jersey with the name of one of the bigger players in the burgeoning construction industry emblazoned across it.
And that is essentially the genesis of where we are today. In the 1990s, the GAA ditched its rules on sponsorship to court the corporate market, it expanded its main stadium and widened its programme of championship games, first in hurling (in 1997) and then in football (in 2001).
Few disagreed with any of these changes as they were being made. It was a natural progression.
It meant more games attracting bigger crowds and driving up revenues. It meant more money being ploughed back into the association for initiatives in infrastructure and games promotion too. But the players, who were ultimately the catalyst for this expansion, fell somewhere in between. It placed a greater commitment on them. And in the middle to the end of the 1990s, the GAA had absolutely no plan for that core part of its membership, no clear vision as to how the next decade might unfold.
An amateur status committee convened throughout 1997 had essentially concluded, with some housekeeping changes to the provision of training gear made and a proposed relaxation of the rules governing endorsement, that things should stay as they are.
Ironically, that committee did consider the payment of managers but never recommended it.
The background
The dynamic between player and administrator within the GAA has had a long history of fracture. In his autobiography, the former GAA president Sean Kelly observed there "has always been and probably always will be a certain amount of friction between players and officialdom".
Players don't enter contracts to play the games so their main obligation is to the time they invest.
"By and large for years and years, the players looked for little and got little," Kelly noted.
That history of friction can be charted back over 100 years and the publication in a letter to the editor of the 'Cork Sportsman' by the secretary of the Dungourney club in Cork outlining the reasons why four players had refused to travel to play Limerick in a game in Ennis.
James Kelleher's letter made clear that the principal objection was the distance they had to travel to Clare, incorporating a 23-hour day from 6.0am that Sunday morning. Then came his most stinging attack.
"Give me the name of the county board, Munster or general council man who will do it," he asked.
"I have seen, to my disgust, the players draw the crowds, make the money and lose their sweat at many a hard hour's game while those gentleman at the head of affairs take charge of the bag and jump in their cars again before the match is over -- off to their hotel to count the coin made by rank and file."
On the subject of insurance payments for injuries, Kelleher was equally scathing. "The men who risked life and limb are forgot," he boldly declared.
It's a small wonder then that it took another 92 years for a players' representative body to come together and take root properly.
In the early 1980s, a group initiated by the Clare hurler Johnny Callanan did get up and running, but its lifespan was short.
The Gaelic Players' Association (GPA) was treated with even greater suspicion by authority than Callanan's group when it evolved from a meeting in the Wellington Park Hotel in September 1999 under Donal O'Neill's guidance.
O'Neill is a member of the famous Down football dynasty but it was his background that sent alarm bells ringing through Croke Park and beyond and laid the basis for a dysfunctional relationship at the outset.
He was a former employee of Mark McCormack's International Management Group who had been based in Asia. Now he was back in Ireland, mobilising Gaelic footballers and hurlers to make more of themselves off the field.
That first gathering in Belfast brought together players chiefly from Ulster; Armagh's Kieran McGeeney, Benny Tierney and Paul McGrane, Tyrone's Peter Canavan, Derry's Anthony Tohill, Fergal McCusker and even Joe Brolly, now one of the GPA's most ardent critics. Dessie Farrell was one of only two players from south of the border.
The GAA's suspicion focused chiefly on O'Neill's background. They feared it would be a sports agency rather than a meaningful player welfare group. They looked at him more than the players gathering behind him or the genuine concerns that they had and immediately put up roadblocks.
The conflict
The composition of that first gathering in Belfast, or a later one for southern players in Dublin, sat perfectly with the GAA's initial assertion that the association would only benefit elite players. And they weren't too far wrong in drawing the conclusion that although 'pay for play' may not have been on the table at the time, it was certainly in the drawer waiting to be produced.
Had they embraced the concept of an independent players' body there and then, then the GPA could easily have been absorbed into the organisation and nurtured in that way.
Instead, they were left in isolation and a cold war ensued. It was quickly portrayed as a struggle between players and officials and that suited the GPA, helping to fuel a recruitment drive.
The GAA turned to its in-house players advisory group, chaired by former Galway hurler Noel Lane, who had been working away quietly on certain aspects of the 1997 report.
Before the end of Joe McDonagh's presidency in April 2000, a raft of measures that relaxed the rules governing endorsements were announced. Individual players, however, would have to sign off 50pc of their earnings from such endorsements to a central team fund. The GPA saw the move as a success for them, even if the endorsement issued was being thrashed around by McDonagh's committee for three years.
But that was the point -- there was no urgency, everything to do with players became a reaction, not an action.
The GPA faced many challenges in those formative years, questions about the depth of their membership and their accounts being central to general suspicion.
Their drive to address and recruit county panels was met with opposition from officials throughout the country. O'Neill, now no longer employed by the GPA, became a figure to fear and loathe for GAA officials.
McDonagh's successor, Sean McCague, then pulled something of a masterstroke when he announced that Jarlath Burns would take over as chairman of the players' committee.
Burns had been captain of Armagh's Ulster title-winning side the previous year (1999) and had subsequently retired from playing. He provided an articulate voice for the GAA's argument that any player representative body should work within the parameters of the association and according to the rules set out.
Burns became a point of contact within Croke Park for grievances players and squads had over facilities, expenses and the provision of what official guidelines stipulated players should have.
While he challenged the GPA, its ideals and its sense of elitism, he also offered an olive branch and it was under his watch that the first meetings with Croke Park took place.
Those meetings, however, amounted to nothing and the GPA quickly realised that. Under Sean McCague, the GPA were never going to cut too much ice.
By 2002, the GPA had overcome most of its early teething problems and was now tapping into lower level hurling and football counties to expand its membership. In time, a majority of players would feel some form of allegiance to a group that was lobbying on their behalf now as much as it was making commercial deals for some of its better-known members.
Milestones
Two of the more significant milestones happened in 2002 and helped the GPA take deeper root. Farrell became full-time chief executive on the same day that Roy Keane erupted in Saipan and, later in November, the Cork hurlers served strike notice in their battle for improved conditions with the most powerful county board in the land.
The Cork hurlers ultimately scored a resounding victory as the board caved in on every basic demand and from there, players across the country had a template if they required one.
In most cases it wasn't required. Better conditions for players in counties which desired success were being delivered anyway and, at national level, a committee chaired by president elect Kelly in 2002 saw further advancements in what an inter-county player was entitled to leading to an eventual increase in the mileage rate to 50 cent.
Ironically the latest stand-off comes after a six-year period, crossing two presidencies, when relations have continued to improve.
Kelly's term saw more harmony created between 2003 and 2006. He had attended the GPA's gala night in 2002 and followed up by declining to elect a players' committee during his term. Instead, the players were given representation on Central Council and Farrell was duly voted in.
Stand-offs continued, most notably over the production of a Sony Playstation game when many players exercised their property rights over their names and refused to co-operate unless a fee was paid. Sony and the GAA went ahead but without the familiarity of names it wasn't the success it might have been.
Search for recognition
At Congress in 2004, Kelly touched on the subject of formal recognition in an official capacity for the first time.
"The GPA have come but not gone as many predicted and probably hoped. Is it the monster that we feared? Is the gap between the GPA and the GAA narrower or wider that it was four years ago? As realism sets in, I feel the gap narrows," he said in his address.
On Nickey Brennan's watch, the torch of recognition was carried on and the appointment of Paraic Duffy as the first player welfare officer was a significant development, welcomed by all sides, given his abilities as an administrator.
Withdrawal of services remains the players' most potent weapon, as the last two winters in Cork will testify, but how often can strike papers be waved in the air? Public opinion can wear from repeated threats.
A one-match strike was averted in early April 2006 over the lack of progress on the grants issue which had evolved from the idea of a €127 per week grant directly from the GAA and tax breaks from the Government.
By November 2007, withdrawal of services was back on the agenda and a ballot to strike among GPA members was carried emphatically. That too was averted once agreement over grants was reached, with Duffy, on his appointment as director general, declaring that it was time to move beyond the age of conflict.
Some 20 months on from that declaration, official recognition, once dismissed as irrelevant by Farrell, is on the agenda at a price.
The GAA has come a long way in how it treats and deals with its players, as spending €20m-plus on preparing inter-county teams suggests.
That said, it came off a very low starting base and has been prompted along the way by reactive instincts to the now 10-year-old players' association.
The latest document offers players a huge amount but stops well short of a 5pc demand of all player-related revenues which association membership is unlikely to tolerate signing off.
Had the GAA been more receptive 10 years ago, the landscape may have been a lot different; a healthy integrated players' body may have flourished.
But, in truth, the fracture sustained as far back as the beginning of the last century has never truly healed.
- colm keys
Good article- at least some journalists are providing a bit of balance.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 21, 2009, 07:11:50 PM
Good article- at least some journalists are providing a bit of balance.
I thought it was a load of shite
What's Tohill's stance on it now?
Implausible as it may seem, I remain generally nuetral on the GPA in that I find myself agreeing with it on some issues and considering them off the wall on others but if I were trying to push change in / on the GAA and leaving aside completely for the purpose of making this point the specifics of what that change might be, the last place in the world that I'd try to start is within some committee type construction of the organisation.
You know how people say that the Eskimos have some 30 different names for "snow"?, well GAA committeemen have at least 30 ways to say "no". I've seen it first hand and change in our little GAA world is always though 'special' initiatives - not regular process.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on July 21, 2009, 07:45:00 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on July 21, 2009, 07:11:50 PM
Good article- at least some journalists are providing a bit of balance.
I thought it was a load of shite
Typical silly season filler, probably written 3 months ago. Its a lot cheaper in this recessionary times for the Indo to get Colm Keys to sit at his desk all day writing stuff like this instead of travelling the highways and byways interviewing players, coaches etc ahead of this weekend's games.
STATEMENT FROM GAA
The GAA and the GPA have engaged in informal discussions over recent days. A formal process of dialogue has been agreed for the weeks ahead with the aim of addressing the differences in their respective positions.
Neither the GAA nor the GPA will be making any further comment.
The GAA and the GPA have engaged in informal discussions over recent days. A formal process of dialogue has been agreed for the weeks ahead with the aim of addressing the differences in their respective positions.
Is this about getting the terminology of the deal right?
All post match interviews with players should be banned. Cringeworthy.
QuoteThe GAA and the GPA have engaged in informal discussions over recent days. A formal process of dialogue has been agreed
Why wasn't I told about this, I heard nothing about this and I'm a member. I didn't agree to anything. This is a disgrace and an undermining of my position as a member. Have I no say at alll at all? I'll see about this I tell ye and after I get a bit of bluestone sprayed on the spuds Dessies next meeting will be with me.
Quote from: Bud Wiser on July 27, 2009, 02:25:54 PM
QuoteThe GAA and the GPA have engaged in informal discussions over recent days. A formal process of dialogue has been agreed
Why wasn't I told about this, I heard nothing about this and I'm a member. I didn't agree to anything. This is a disgrace and an undermining of my position as a member. Have I no say at alll at all? I'll see about this I tell ye and after I get a bit of bluestone sprayed on the spuds Dessies next meeting will be with me.
[/b]
He's insured against bluestone. ;)
Nobody talks to me on the board anymore now orangeman since I joined up. Even when I walk down to the pub for a pint Im afraid this 'grassroots' element will jump out and drag me into a field.
Quote from: Bud Wiser on July 27, 2009, 04:40:48 PM
Nobody talks to me on the board anymore now orangeman since I joined up. Even when I walk down to the pub for a pint Im afraid this 'grassroots' element will jump out and drag me into a field.
Ahhh poor Bud ! ;) Malcontents.
Well yesterday evening after I made that last post above I took the bull by the horns and rang Dessies about my membership. "Come out to DCU and meet me sez he, I am meeting Conor there to give him his wages early this week and shur you can join us for a few minutes." Well for balls alone for suggesting that I sit down beside a Mayo man after them landing poor little Donie Brennan on his arse and turning him upside down in the square the very first minute he ran on as a sub in Croke Park in that quarter final. In fairness I went out with fire in my belly about some issues I had and by the time I left I wondered why in the name of Jaysus anyone would travel from Sligo or Donegal to Rathkeale to pray at a stump of a tree when you could drop at this mans feet any day of the week.
Not allowed to say what was discussed but as I left he came all the way out to the car park, said good luck now, thanks for the spuds and put this note in my hand:
This 125yr celebrations,
it's over, we have all had enough,
It's time to move on and give us recognition,
or else we'll just have to get tough.
They spend more time up there in Headquarters,
discussing old times going back to 'our roots'
And useless debate about things that don't matter,
like who would or would not lace Christy Rings boots.
All the smart talk about Club Energiser,
we just drink before each game to quench thirst,
Ye'd think we were back in the thirties,
when a man cut hay and milked twenty cows first.
All we want is better injured players welfare,
We're not talking scenes like Omaha Beach,
Now that Francie's not about, there are less players laid out,
and Nine Hundred Grand is well in our reach.
Lads like Conor are playing a blinder,
But at the Connaught Final my heart really sank,
When he pulled up his jersey to reveal Michael Jackson,
Instead of the Halifax Bank.
If Mayo get to the All-Ireland,
he may have to take down his pants,
because what I'm hearing, every day on the wireless,
I think we are fooked with the grants.
Thats why we can't delay, there are pensions to pay,
and cars to be kept on the road,
while GAA Discussion boarders and bar stool supporters,
continue to laugh and to goad.
We have two million now in the kitty,
thats our executives pay sorted out,
So I can't understand for a minute,
what all of the bitching's about.
We have now almost 2000 members,
Where they are from, well who really cares,
but sometimes I laugh when I realize,
there are only about forty of them players.
Thanks for your time and your money,
And for coming to see me today,
And tell all your friends on your discussion board,
That the GPA won't go away !
Quote from: Bud Wiser on July 28, 2009, 09:16:19 AM
Well yesterday evening after I made that last post above I took the bull by the horns and rang Dessies about my membership. "Come out to DCU and meet me sez he, I am meeting Conor there to give him his wages early this week and shur you can join us for a few minutes." Well for balls alone for suggesting that I sit down beside a Mayo man after them landing poor little Donie Brennan on his arse and turning him upside down in the square the very first minute he ran on as a sub in Croke Park in that quarter final. In fairness I went out with fire in my belly about some issues I had and by the time I left I wondered why in the name of Jaysus anyone would travel from Sligo or Donegal to Rathkeale to pray at a stump of a tree when you could drop at this mans feet any day of the week.
Not allowed to say what was discussed but as I left he came all the way out to the car park, said good luck now, thanks for the spuds and put this note in my hand:
This 125yr celebrations,
it's over, we have all had enough,
It's time to move on and give us recognition,
or else we'll just have to get tough.
They spend more time up there in Headquarters,
discussing old times going back to 'our roots'
And useless debate about things that don't matter,
like who would or would not lace Christy Rings boots.
All the smart talk about Club Energiser,
we just drink before each game to quench thirst,
Ye'd think we were back in the thirties,
when a man cut hay and milked twenty cows first.
All we want is better injured players welfare,
We're not talking scenes like Omaha Beach,
Now that Francie's not about, there are less players laid out,
and Nine Hundred Grand is well in our reach.
Lads like Conor are playing a blinder,
But at the Connaught Final my heart really sank,
When he pulled up his jersey to reveal Michael Jackson,
Instead of the Halifax Bank.
If Mayo get to the All-Ireland,
he may have to take down his pants,
because what I'm hearing, every day on the wireless,
I think we are fooked with the grants.
Thats why we can't delay, there are pensions to pay,
and cars to be kept on the road,
while GAA Discussion boarders and bar stool supporters,
continue to laugh and to goad.
We have two million now in the kitty,
thats our executives pay sorted out,
So I can't understand for a minute,
what all of the bitching's about.
We have now almost 2000 members,
Where they are from, well who really cares,
but sometimes I laugh when I realize,
there are only about forty of them players.
Thanks for your time and your money,
And for coming to see me today,
And tell all your friends on your discussion board,
That the GPA won't go away !
Well done Bud. Having a blinder as usual.
:D
Good man Bud, I knew you'd eventually come to appreciate the GPA for the wondrous, wholesome and immovably venal virtuous organisation that it really is. Good stuff! :D
QuoteGood man Bud, I knew you'd eventually come to appreciate the GPA
Not yet, between yourself and meself the bag of spuds had no effect, I am on probation.
Dessie said it is a matter of trust and he finds it hard to trust a Laois man after us trying to set up the Dub's in the K Club by foisting Micko on them mid season and there were issues with a few comments I made on the board a few months ago along with my avitar. Ah, I'd say we will work it out though.
Quote from: Bud Wiser on July 28, 2009, 10:29:06 AM
QuoteGood man Bud, I knew you'd eventually come to appreciate the GPA
Not yet, between yourself and meself the bag of spuds had no effect, I am on probation.
Dessie said it is a matter of trust and he finds it hard to trust a Laois man after us trying to set up the Dub's in the K Club by foisting Micko on them mid season and there were issues with a few comments I made on the board a few months ago along with my avitar. Ah, I'd say we will work it out though.
Try 2 bags of spuds. ;)
Is it 31st July 2008 or 2009 that the Halifax Credit Card offer expires, I think I have 'till tomorrow and if I take it I can go on the drink for a week and I get 100 euro in cash from Dessie absolutely free to spend along with an approximate 4% difference with MBNA. I'll let you know when I come back from test driving me Opel.
Quote from: Bud Wiser on July 29, 2009, 07:46:25 AM
Is it 31st July 2008 or 2009 that the Halifax Credit Card offer expires, I think I have 'till tomorrow and if I take it I can go on the drink for a week and I get 100 euro in cash from Dessie absolutely free to spend along with an approximate 4% difference with MBNA. I'll let you know when I come back from test driving me Opel.
Opel Fruits ?
Bud, for your information (although I am sure you all ready know as you are operating at the coal face these days) Brian Whelahan has been appointed as at 12/7/09 as a director of the Gaelic players Management Company Limited
Sean Cavanagh was also appointed a director
Is it a coincidence that the forms to appoint Whelehan and Cavanagh as directors were filed with the CRO within a couple of weeks of Bud's post on 1 July? :o
Quote from: Bud Wiser on July 01, 2009, 06:21:16 PM
There are only two shareholders in the Gaelic Players Management Company, one with a 75% stake and the other with a 25% stake. Since it is not a company without shares and limited by guarantee, as is normal for a non-profit making company, I would assume that their assets will be taxed.
I did accounts for a company there a while ago and the company owed P.A.Y.E. and a few bob in Vat. Mr Tax man went directly into the companies bank account and scooped out what he wanted without as much as a warning. I applied for Grant Aid from the Enterprise Board and I was told that I had to produce a Tax Clearance Cert even though I was only starting a new company. What I am saying is, how can another company apply for a Government Grant if they owe VAT, or better still, how did they get previous grants at a time when they appeared to owe vat?
Here is the information that is available from the CRO Site.
Donal O'Neill and a guy called David Burke own 75% and 25% of the shareholding respectively.
The company had net assets of €159,694 as at the end of December. This is a sizeable sum for a company owned by only 2 individuals in toays stormy weather. The company paid Corporation Tax of €21,209. The notes to the accounts do not include (as they should) a reconciliation of how this figure is calculated, but the accounts do note that the entire Corporation Tax bill arose in respect of profits charged at 12.5%., this would indicate that the company made profits of €169,672 in 2007, again a tidy sum (after directors salaries etc) to be shared among two individuals.
The movement in 2007 in "equity shareholders funds" as per the Balance Sheet is €145,273, which ties up pretty closely with the post-tax profits of €148,463 as indicated by the Corporation Tax bill, as above. The accounts record the company as owing €78,590 to the Revenue as at 31 December 2007 and €52,973 as at 31 December 2006. So was this owed when they got original funding? This would normally appear to indicate an ongoing problem with VAT arrears and/or cashflow, which is hard to understand. The Balance Sheet figure for "Creditors falling due within 1 year" of €193,041 does not tie up with the total of the corresponding note, Note 5, €103,226. Why? I don't know, especially when the accounts were audited without qualification. the Balance Sheet includes "Creditors falling due within 1 year" of €93,056, which is referenced to note 6, but Note 6 does not appear in the notes. The notes jump from Note 5 to Note 7. Again the same omission was made in the 2006 accounts. The company had "cash in bank and at hand" of €121,125 as at 31 December 2007, which is very curious given the existence of the large VAT liability as at that date. The "cash in bank and at hand" as at 31 December 2006 was €247,626. The company's debtors as at 31 December 2008 were €319,180, a massive increase on the corresponding figure of €63,510 a year earlier. Ciaran McArdle was appointed as director on 1 October 2008 and signed the accounts in this capacity on 22 October 2008. The company's 2008 B1 return was made up to 30 September 2008 (the maximum 9 months after the year end of 31/12/07) and Ciaran McArdle signed the B1 as a director on 24 October 2008. McArdle's appointment as a director after the year-end is not recorded in the accounts.
The auditor's report on the abridged accounts is dated 24-10-08, two days after the directors signed the accounts. The date on which the auditor's report on the full financial accounts is required to be stated as part of the auditor's report on the abridged accounts. it is standard auditing practice to date the audit report concurrent with the date the directors have signed the accounts. (Note in this regard that, as the date is handwritten on the audit report, the final digit of this date is a bit unclear.). Note 1.4 indicates that the company has a defined contribution pension scheme for its employees. There is no mention in the financial statements of any amounts owing by the company to the directors at the year end, or of any transactions between the company and the directors during the year. There is no mention either of any connection between Ciaran McArdle (who is listed as an "accountant" on the B10 return filed with the CRO to record his appointment as director) and the auditors Kearney McArdle McEnaney & Company, so it can probably be assumed that no such connection exists simply because you can't be a director of a company and be the companies auditor at t6he same time, although a certain Hugh Hannigan gave this law a whole bnew meaning about five years ago. So basicly, after all that I haven't a clue who the GPA are, how much money they have, how much money they owe or how much money they want and what they want it for
Ah for jaysus sake cornafean don't be bringing that up again, ye'll get me thrown out an I only after becoming a member.
Quote from: Bud Wiser on July 30, 2009, 07:41:20 PM
Ah for jaysus sake cornafean don't be bringing that up again, ye'll get me thrown out an I only after becoming a member.
Bud will be a director soon too. ;)
Quote from: orangeman on July 30, 2009, 07:58:03 PM
Bud will be a director soon too. ;)
Media Director? Entertainment Director?
Quote from: ludermor on July 30, 2009, 08:02:30 PM
Quote from: orangeman on July 30, 2009, 07:58:03 PM
Bud will be a director soon too. ;)
Media Director? Entertainment Director?
I'm pretty sure it won't be Finance director. He'll not be let near the cheque book.
QuoteBud, for your information (although I am sure you all ready know as you are operating at the coal face these days) Brian Whelahan has been appointed as at 12/7/09 as a director of the Gaelic players Management Company Limited
Sean Cavanagh was also appointed a director
Only got a chance to see that there now, been busy for a day or two. I certainly will be raising issues about this at our next meeting ! They need to appoint a few more onto the board of directors if they are trying to promote an inclusive organizeation. In the first instance let me say that there are no two players that I admire more than the two new directors, both have made immense contributions to the GAA but:
While Sid may bring back a few bob to John Troy in his own county who is hobbling around on crutches for no other reason than an old hurling injury I would have serious issues with Mr. Whelehan being the sole hurling representative on the board of directors. Firstly Brian ran as a candidate for Fine Gael in the last election. I had an issue with that too because, with respect to Brian, and I mean no insult to the man, it is a disgrace that all political parties are running celebrities as politicians instead of economists and planners with experience in infrastructural development projects. Brian to my knowledge is a publican. As a member of Fine Gael and as a candidate in the last election it would appear on balance that the GPA should now to appoint a member of Fiana Fail, Sinn Fein, and any other party to balance things up. The GPA are promoting the facilities they provide their members as including getting them jobs and looking after their welfare. For that reason you can not allow what can be seen as a political agenda if questions are asked as to how these jobs are allocated.
The Board of Directors should have at minimum, two hurlers from each province and two footballers from each province and none should be actual members of political parties regardless of what party they support. For a non-profit organizeation they should have a minimum of 12 directors in the first place, but of course it is a profit making venture so four is enough for the moment.
12 directors is a good idea. Would certainly achieve your objective of the GPA being able to do nothing.
I stand corrected Hound, the minimum number of directors for a Company Limited by Guarantee (€1 shares) and non-profit making is 7, not 12 as I said.
I don't know where the first two directors are from but I know that to form any company in Ireland you must have one director living in the state. Anyway, it is not important how many directors there are, what I am interested in is who they are, where they are from and who the represent. Did the two new lads get shares because if they didn't they might as well be above on the headland watching me digging the spuds?
Quote from: Bud Wiser on July 31, 2009, 06:27:04 PM
Did the two new lads get shares because if they didn't they might as well be above on the headland watching me digging the spuds?
Or even a cut of the Pension Fund?
well done bud,now that your meeting god,or is wee peter still gpa member?well youve met the second most important dub behind bono the man who thinks he can save the world and dessie"robin hood"farrell,who thinks he can rob the gaa to feed his poor members,i was just wondering in your chat with dessie does ticket allocation come up for gpa members?are members entilted to the best seats in croker and are they free?if you get any free ones coming from your entitlement as a member and you cant make a game im sure some of us paying customers could avail off them if dessie allows you to sell them on for profit or is that against the rules of the gpa,making money from a voluntary sport?
QuoteInsert Quote
well done bud,now that your meeting god,or is wee peter still gpa member?
Just to clarify a few issues for you. I still did not get my membership card so I can't comment on wee Peter or any members because I don't know. Having said that, I have a feeling that like a few others that were involved at the start the wee man has done a Captain Yiannis Avranas on it.
With regard to the set up of the association it is common for company formation agents to copy and paste the Articles Of Association of shelf companies and use them as their own and sometimes this can cause confusion if they forget to amend the sections appropriate to their new companies. For example if you visit http://gpaglobal.org/committees_appointed.php (http://gpaglobal.org/committees_appointed.php) you will see such a section which I am led to believe refers to the GPA Board of Directors and which states :
Board of Directors
•This group has control and supervision over the affairs and policies of the Association
Reports to the general membership
•Generally made up of around 45 member companies
•Consists of top NGL producers (maximum dues payers = those that produce >585,000 gal/day) and 21 other member companies serving three-year terms
•Meets three times per year The only association I can determine with the production of 585,00 gallons a day refers to an Oil Producing company in Alberta., so you can see the difficulty I am having. Please bear with me and I will do my best to get all the information you require. Meanwhile please remember the GPA are working in the best interest of the players !!!
Quote from: Bud Wiser on August 01, 2009, 11:50:30 AM
QuoteInsert Quote
well done bud,now that your meeting god,or is wee peter still gpa member?
Just to clarify a few issues for you. I still did not get my membership card so I can't comment on wee Peter or any members because I don't know. Having said that, I have a feeling that like a few others that were involved at the start the wee man has done a Captain Yiannis Avranas on it.
With regard to the set up of the association it is common for company formation agents to copy and paste the Articles Of Association of shelf companies and use them as their own and sometimes this can cause confusion if they forget to amend the sections appropriate to their new companies. For example if you visit http://gpaglobal.org/committees_appointed.php (http://gpaglobal.org/committees_appointed.php) you will see such a section which I am led to believe refers to the GPA Board of Directors and which states :
Board of Directors
•This group has control and supervision over the affairs and policies of the Association
Reports to the general membership
•Generally made up of around 45 member companies
•Consists of top NGL producers (maximum dues payers = those that produce >585,000 gal/day) and 21 other member companies serving three-year terms
•Meets three times per year
The only association I can determine with the production of 585,00 gallons a day refers to an Oil Producing company in Alberta., so you can see the difficulty I am having. Please bear with me and I will do my best to get all the information you require. Meanwhile please remember the GPA are working in the best interest of the players !!!
;) :D :D :D :D
Good man Bud. More spuds for all members. Balls of
flour euros.
Bud, you must be pleased that your association is run with such professionalism (pun intended).
Quote from: Bud Wiser on August 01, 2009, 12:11:26 PM
If you click on the link http://gpaglobal.org/committees_appointed.php you will see they don't need spuds, they are getting members who are striking oil at the rate of 585,000 gallons a day !! Scroll down to "Board of Directors" ;)
About GPA
GPA has served the industry as an incorporated
non-profit trade association
There you go. No problem here.
QuoteBud, you must be pleased that your association is run with such professionalism (pun intended).
Just hang in there, myself and the barman from Birr have a few issues to sort out but we will get there.
As an aside issue, I am hearing that the Cork ones are at it again and at the last training session of the footballers there was an ould wan on the sideline giving the players stick as to why her daughter who plays for the ladies was not allowed jopin the GPA. Nothing but trouble on the way as far as I can see.
(http://ohellnawlblog.com/newohnblog/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/angry_old_lady.jpg)
Quote from: Bud Wiser on August 01, 2009, 12:36:50 PM
QuoteBud, you must be pleased that your association is run with such professionalism (pun intended).
Just hang in there, myself and the barman from Birr have a few issues to sort out but we will get there.
As an aside issue, I am hearing that the Cork ones are at it again and at the last training session of the footballers there was an ould wan on the sideline giving the players stick as to why her daughter who plays for the ladies was not allowed jopin the GPA. Nothing but trouble on the way as far as I can see.
(http://ohellnawlblog.com/newohnblog/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/angry_old_lady.jpg)
Jesus Bud but you do lighten the day. That picture of the auld doll at the Cork training is class. :D :D :D :D :D
I've no end of admiration for your dedication to the elucidation of the erudition and virtuous vocation of this particular organisation Bud, good man.