Offaly v Cork
Laois v Antrim
Wexford v Limerick
Clare v Galway
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on June 21, 2009, 06:15:08 PM
Offaly v Cork
Laois v Antrim
Wexford v Limerick
Clare v Galway
No harm for Offaly to try and give Cork a rattle.
It could reveal much about the standing of both teams.
Antrim and Laois both got lucky there, put off a spanking for at least a round
What price on Galway flunking to Clare again?
Ideal draw for Laois, Antrim very happy to avoid cork. Where and when are the matches, is the first named team at home?
game is in Laois. no dates confirmed
seems that the teams who got further in the Comp. got the harder games.
QuoteIdeal draw for Laois, Antrim very happy to avoid cork.
I'd disagree with that, the best draw for either team would have been Offaly at home, i.e a big name that they might have beaten and if so they would have got something out of the year. As it is all they are doing is postponing a bad beating when they'll have to play the stronger teams of round 2.
Quote from: milltown row on June 21, 2009, 07:38:27 PM
game is in Laois. no dates confirmed
seems that the teams who got further in the Comp. got the harder games.
Exactly, it's stupid. I can't see why the GAA don't put them all into one draw..well it's the GAA, when would they ever do something that makes sense.
But looking at all those draws, Cork are the luckiest side in there.
Offaly in tullamore Reillers will be no pushover. I still expect Cork to win but Offaly will make a game of it.
Agree with you there Indiana. The Leinster teams have an inconvenient habit (for the Munster hurling afficiandos anyway) of really giving the Munster teams right good games. Dublin and Offaly last year for example.
What way does this phase 1 and pahse 2 thing work?
Doesn't seem to be any incentive to win the early rounds in your province if you get put into the harder qualifier draw?
Do the 2 winners from phase 1 play the 2 winners of phase 2 with the winners playing the beaten provincial finalists?
As far as I am aware only teams from phase 1 can be relegated, therefore if Offaly lose to Cork they will be in a relegation play off against Antrim/Laois. On the other hand wexford who beat Offaly cannot be relegated now no matter what happens, thats why it is better to win your first round match.
Quote from: INDIANA on June 21, 2009, 09:16:07 PM
Offaly in tullamore Reillers will be no pushover. I still expect Cork to win but Offaly will make a game of it.
Never said they would, it's a tricky draw, and it's been THE game that Offaly have been working towards all season. All the weaker Leinster concentrate fully on the qualifiers, they don't "try" for Leinster..ie beating Kilkenny, it'll be a tough game, but I can hopefully, if we're careful and Walsh doesn't play a totally weak side, we should win, unless, God forbid we have a realy bad day. Hopefully though, all going well we should win. They'll be tricky though, that and not to mention it's not the easiest place to get to either, had to be the bloody back of beyonds like..wonder if they'd give up home advantage and play it in Thurles to keep us happy..ya, if only.
When I said that Cork were the luckiest out of everyone, was because well Laois/Antrim wouldn't have thought us anything and, while no offense to you're Leinster mates but if we can't beat Offaly then what's the point, we've no chance of winning the AI. And when I said lucky I was comparing them to the other group. The strongest team in phase 1 who could play and beat all of the teams there got a much easier draw first round.
I fancy us at home against Limerick, there is not much between the two teams and home advantage might swing it. Reillers don't underestimate Offaly!
Is this the way it works?
Winners Phase 2 into Q/Fs along with Provincial finalists.
Winners Phase 1 play losers Phase 2. Winners into Q/Fs.
Losers Phase 1 play off for relegation.
Simple really. :-\
Quote from: Reillers on June 22, 2009, 12:05:37 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on June 21, 2009, 09:16:07 PM
Offaly in tullamore Reillers will be no pushover. I still expect Cork to win but Offaly will make a game of it.
Never said they would, it's a tricky draw, and it's been THE game that Offaly have been working towards all season. All the weaker Leinster concentrate fully on the qualifiers, they don't "try" for Leinster..ie beating Kilkenny, it'll be a tough game, but I can hopefully, if we're careful and Walsh doesn't play a totally weak side, we should win, unless, God forbid we have a realy bad day. Hopefully though, all going well we should win. They'll be tricky though, that and not to mention it's not the easiest place to get to either, had to be the bloody back of beyonds like..wonder if they'd give up home advantage and play it in Thurles to keep us happy..ya, if only.
When I said that Cork were the luckiest out of everyone, was because well Laois/Antrim wouldn't have thought us anything and, while no offense to you're Leinster mates but if we can't beat Offaly then what's the point, we've no chance of winning the AI. And when I said lucky I was comparing them to the other group. The strongest team in phase 1 who could play and beat all of the teams there got a much easier draw first round.
I guess a little dissapointed with the draw, Any of the other two teams would more than likely have seen us in the secound round of the qualifiers ensuring that there would be no relegation battle at the very least! Having said that, going into the Cork team it will really be a matter of how Offaly approach the game, the mental strenght of the team is extremely low, they have a tendancy to give up against fancied teams and if they go into the game with this attitude they will wimper out of the championship. If on the other hand they decide to fight tooth and nail for every minute of the seventy I think they will put it up to Cork. If Kenny is back fully fit I would expect our backline to limit Cork to a low scoreline, but looking down the other end of the field I cant see us scoring much either, So I would have to go for Cork in this one, As I said the score will really depend on the attitude offaly have.
It most certainly ISNT the game Offaly have been working towards, an ideal situation would have been to beat Wexford in the first round and get into the Leinster Semi Final, saying Offaly / Wexford / Dublin dont "try" for leinster is a joke one i wouldnt even bother to entertain.
Tullamore is the back of beyonds to Cork People, but you have to remember Pairc Ui Choimh is the back of beyonds for most offaly people. The reason it is in Tullamore is because Offaly had to travel to Pairc Ui Choimh in 2007 for a qualifier and these games work on a home & away basis. So it is only fair that the match is in O'Connor Park, although if both games were in Thurles I think it would have been an ideal situation the first day.
True I suppose if you cant beat Offaly whats the point, but the same could be said about Limerick, Waterford & Clare at least from Munster...a point you dont seem to get Reillers.
Offaly v Cork
Laois v Antrim
Wexford v Limerick
Clare v Galway
Quote from: Lecale2 on June 22, 2009, 09:00:03 AM
Is this the way it works?
Winners Phase 2 into Q/Fs along with Provincial finalists.
Winners Phase 1 play losers Phase 2. Winners into Q/Fs.
Losers Phase 1 play off for relegation.
Simple really. :-\
No again as far as I am aware the losers in phase two are gone having lost two games. Losers phase 1 into relegation play off, winners phase 2 play winners phase 1 for place in QF against losing provincial finalist
Right. That makes sense. These rules aren't well publicised.
No No No No NOOOOOO ..... of course it desn't make sense ;D
The Phase II losers also go into the relegation play-offs.
So as of last night, either Antrim or Laois will be sitting pretty in next year's Senior Championship, while FOUR OTHER TEAMS from Cork, Galway, Limerick, Clare, Offaly, Wexford and Laois/Antrim battle it out to stay out of the Christy Ring.
Priceless. You couldn't make it up. Really you couldn't.
http://www.gaa.ie/page/gaa_hurling_senior_championship_2009.html (http://www.gaa.ie/page/gaa_hurling_senior_championship_2009.html)
Just checked your link you are of course correct well done model. It seems a bit daft that Wexford can beat Offaly and Galway beat Laois but still get relegated, first rounds really dont count for much do they.
In all honesty Laois probably will be relegated but the system is poor.
Laois have Antrim at home and will fancy their chances although suspensions may hurt them. I would not rate this game any more than 50-50. Antrim beat them in the league but only by a couple of points, not much between these two although whoever loses will be in real trouble.
QuoteNever said they would, it's a tricky draw, and it's been THE game that Offaly have been working towards all season. All the weaker Leinster concentrate fully on the qualifiers, they don't "try" for Leinster..ie beating Kilkenny, it'll be a tough game, but I can hopefully, if we're careful and Walsh doesn't play a totally weak side, we should win, unless, God forbid we have a realy bad day. Hopefully though, all going well we should win. They'll be tricky though, that and not to mention it's not the easiest place to get to either, had to be the bloody back of beyonds like..wonder if they'd give up home advantage and play it in Thurles to keep us happy..ya, if only.
That could be *the* most patronising, insulting paragraph I've ever read. Believe it or not, this is not *THE* game we've been working for. *THE* game was firstly the League Final against Wexford, and secondly the Leinster game against Wexford. The first went well, the second went badly. The Qualifiers are just an opportunity for us to see how far we've come or not come as the case may be. I don't expect Offaly to beat Cork, but I hope we put in a good performance, even if Walsh 'doesn't play a totally weak side'.
And Tullamore is in the centre of Ireland. Count yourself lucky that you didn't get Antrim away.
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 23, 2009, 11:56:21 AM
QuoteNever said they would, it's a tricky draw, and it's been THE game that Offaly have been working towards all season. All the weaker Leinster concentrate fully on the qualifiers, they don't "try" for Leinster..ie beating Kilkenny, it'll be a tough game, but I can hopefully, if we're careful and Walsh doesn't play a totally weak side, we should win, unless, God forbid we have a realy bad day. Hopefully though, all going well we should win. They'll be tricky though, that and not to mention it's not the easiest place to get to either, had to be the bloody back of beyonds like..wonder if they'd give up home advantage and play it in Thurles to keep us happy..ya, if only.
That could be *the* most patronising, insulting paragraph I've ever read. Believe it or not, this is not *THE* game we've been working for. *THE* game was firstly the League Final against Wexford, and secondly the Leinster game against Wexford. The first went well, the second went badly. The Qualifiers are just an opportunity for us to see how far we've come or not come as the case may be. I don't expect Offaly to beat Cork, but I hope we put in a good performance, even if Walsh 'doesn't play a totally weak side'.
And Tullamore is in the centre of Ireland. Count yourself lucky that you didn't get Antrim away.
In his defense AZ, he is from Cork... :P
That's true. What I wouldn't give for a repeat of the 2000 semi final :D
Looking at the game, it's obviously a steep task for Offaly. There is a school of thought that we are better off getting Cork in Tullamore, rather than Laois or Antrim at home, because it's a great chance to see how you measure up against one of the top 4 teams in the country, but I'd have preferred getting a home draw against one of the other 2, with a good chance of progressing, and then taking our chances against someone like Clare, Limerick, Wexford or Galway in the next round.
Having said that, I am looking forward to it in one sense. It will be a real barometer of where this Offaly team is, and exactly how far we are off the top 4 (I think we are already on a similar level to Wexford, Limerick, Clare and even Dublin). I think we will be in huge difficulty against the Cork half back line. We couldn't buy a ball there against Wexford for long periods, and it's been a recurring problem for us. I'd expect it to be very difficult there, and Offaly will have to do something clever to win our own puckouts. One option may be to pull our half forwards deep, and play shorter puckouts, to allow our half back line rain in ball in front of Joe Bergin and co. It'll obviously cost scores when it goes wrong, but raining puckouts down on top of a rampant Sean Og or John Gardiner will be soul destroying.
I'm also looking forward to seeing Aisake against David Kenny, if David has fully recovered from his hamstring injury. He was badly affected against Wexford, and it cost us badly. Aisake's touch will be better against Offaly than it was against Tipp, but he's the sort of big strong full forward that David Kenny likes playing against.
I think our half back line will be okay against Cork, if we are on our game, but I suspect overall Cork will be stronger. If we can negate, or at least stifle, 5-7, you could have a close game, but if we decide to take our chances with them, it'll be at least 10 points.
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 23, 2009, 12:29:27 PM
That's true. What I wouldn't give for a repeat of the 2000 semi final :D
Looking at the game, it's obviously a steep task for Offaly. There is a school of thought that we are better off getting Cork in Tullamore, rather than Laois or Antrim at home, because it's a great chance to see how you measure up against one of the top 4 teams in the country, but I'd have preferred getting a home draw against one of the other 2, with a good chance of progressing, and then taking our chances against someone like Clare, Limerick, Wexford or Galway in the next round.
Having said that, I am looking forward to it in one sense. It will be a real barometer of where this Offaly team is, and exactly how far we are off the top 4 (I think we are already on a similar level to Wexford, Limerick, Clare and even Dublin). I think we will be in huge difficulty against the Cork half back line. We couldn't buy a ball there against Wexford for long periods, and it's been a recurring problem for us. I'd expect it to be very difficult there, and Offaly will have to do something clever to win our own puckouts. One option may be to pull our half forwards deep, and play shorter puckouts, to allow our half back line rain in ball in front of Joe Bergin and co. It'll obviously cost scores when it goes wrong, but raining puckouts down on top of a rampant Sean Og or John Gardiner will be soul destroying.
I'm also looking forward to seeing Aisake against David Kenny, if David has fully recovered from his hamstring injury. He was badly affected against Wexford, and it cost us badly. Aisake's touch will be better against Offaly than it was against Tipp, but he's the sort of big strong full forward that David Kenny likes playing against.
I think our half back line will be okay against Cork, if we are on our game, but I suspect overall Cork will be stronger. If we can negate, or at least stifle, 5-7, you could have a close game, but if we decide to take our chances with them, it'll be at least 10 points.
I agree with most of your post AZ...but i really think the deciding factor on whether it will be a 10 point plus loss and a couple of points loss will be attitude. It wasnt right against wexford in the first round and hasnt been right in 9/10 games over the last decade. A lot of the players are seasoned inter county hurlers and have to stand up and be counted at this stage.
I think the back line will be fine, midfield should do ok IF Rory Hannify & Brendan Murphy is the partnership...my worry is the same as yourself....the half forward line is woeful at the moment...the only man competing has been joe brady and he is isnt half fit so expect him to run out of steam before half time. I would actually try and drag the half forward line as close to the cork goal as possible and try and give Brendan Murphy and Rory Hannify a chance under the puck out. Although Cork are strong in midfield aswell it is our only chance of getting the ball past Sean Og, Gardiner etc.
> No No No No NOOOOOO ..... of course it desn't make sense Grin
> The Phase II losers also go into the relegation play-offs.
> So as of last night, either Antrim or Laois will be sitting pretty in next year's Senior Championship, while FOUR OTHER TEAMS from Cork, Galway, Limerick, Clare, Offaly, Wexford and Laois/Antrim
> battle it out to stay out of the Christy Ring.
> Priceless. You couldn't make it up. Really you couldn't.
> http://www.gaa.ie/page/gaa_hurling_senior_championship_2009.html
I guess the fact is that Cork, Clare, Offaly, Laois and Antrim didnt win a match so they would deserve to end up in a relegation play off if they lose in the qualifiers.
Wexford and Galway would of course be hard done by. The phase 1 versus phase 2 thing makes no sense... if anything the semi-final losers are disadvanged by playing against one another.
They had to include the semi final losers in the relegation play off since it wouldn't be fair that four teams would be insulated against relegation. I don't think for a minute that Clare or Limerick will find themselves under pressure this year, but they still should have to win a game somewhere to stay up.
The layout is terrible.
Have I got this straight or am I wrong.
If Kilkenny beat Dublin they have played two games and are into the S/F.
While Galway have already played two games, their third will be against Clare, and if we win that we must play a 2nd qualifier lets say Cork and if we win that we have to play a Provencial runner up to get to the S/F. Which means we will have played a total of five games. Same for the likes of Wexford. Not a very fair system and makes it easier for the likes of Kilkenny.
Quote from: Galwaybhoy on June 23, 2009, 11:44:08 PM
The layout is terrible.
Have I got this straight or am I wrong.
If Kilkenny beat Dublin they have played two games and are into the S/F.
While Galway have already played two games, their third will be against Clare, and if we win that we must play a 2nd qualifier lets say Cork and if we win that we have to play a Provencial runner up to get to the S/F. Which means we will have played a total of five games. Same for the likes of Wexford. Not a very fair system and makes it easier for the likes of Kilkenny.
Sure if you'd bate Kilkenny it would have saved youse all that bother :o
Quote from: longrunsthefox on June 23, 2009, 11:50:39 PM
Quote from: Galwaybhoy on June 23, 2009, 11:44:08 PM
The layout is terrible.
Have I got this straight or am I wrong.
If Kilkenny beat Dublin they have played two games and are into the S/F.
While Galway have already played two games, their third will be against Clare, and if we win that we must play a 2nd qualifier lets say Cork and if we win that we have to play a Provencial runner up to get to the S/F. Which means we will have played a total of five games. Same for the likes of Wexford. Not a very fair system and makes it easier for the likes of Kilkenny.
Sure if you'd bate Kilkenny it would have saved youse all that bother :o
All part of the plan. We lost on purpose to give Kilkenny a false sence of security, now they think they are unbeatable, we will catch them in the final. Just like Ger Lock lost on purpose to Clare in 07. ;)
The system will never be fair until they scrap the pointless provincial championships and open it up. The Camogie championship has proven how good this group format can be. Camogie was dying with only Cork and Tipp but now Wexford, Galway, Dublin and Kilkenny have come on leaps and bounds because they are getting plenty of games.
Quote from: EddieMerx on June 24, 2009, 08:32:08 AM
The system will never be fair until they scrap the pointless provincial championships and open it up. The Camogie championship has proven how good this group format can be. Camogie was dying with only Cork and Tipp but now Wexford, Galway, Dublin and Kilkenny have come on leaps and bounds because they are getting plenty of games.
I think the current system is fair. If Kilkenny / Dublin / Tipp / Waterford had lost their first games they would be into the qualifiers, where they get more games. There has been a lot of talk about giving weaker teams more games to help them improve...well what better way to do it than the current system. It ensures that the likes of Antrim / Laois who are probably the two weakest teams in the competition will play at least three games in the competition, First Round Provincials, First Round Qualifiers, then either Second Round Qualifiers or Relegation Semi Final.
They only have to win 1 of the 3 games to stave off relegation and play a vareity of teams from across the country so get experience of teams playing at different levels.
I think scrapping the provincial titles would have good and bad points. The good being some mouthwatering clashes in the groups as it will be luck of the draw and there would be a big possibility of a group of death like in the soccer world cup etc. On the other hand you are losing a tradition that a lot of people would be in uproar over.
I would favour a new format. Run the provincial championships a little earlier in the year in March / April in the current format except it is straight knock out. Then seed the teams as per their performance in the provincial championship. i.e Winners are seed 1,Finalists are seed 2 and semifinalists are seed 3 etc.
Then hold an open draw for say 2 groups of six teams. For example if you took this year the seeding would be (im going to presume KK & Tipp as provincial winners as they are favourites
Seed 1
KK
Tipp
Seed 2
Dublin
Waterford
Seed 3
Wexford
Galway
Clare
Limerick
Unseeded
Offaly
Laois
Antrim
Cork
Now for the sake of completeness I will give you two dummy groups
Group 1
KK
Waterford
Wexford
Clare
Cork
Antrim
Group 2
Tipp
Dublin
Galway
Limerick
Offaly
Laois
Everyone in the group plays each other once, with the top 2 going into a semi final. So every team would have at least 5 matches (plus at least one provincial match) and there would be serious competition among the teams for the top two places whilst also allowing the weaker teams the chance to gain experience at a higher level. Also the bottom two teams of each group go into a relegation semi final for a one up one down situation with the christy ring cup as it is currently.
Would this be a better solution?? There would be more competitive harder games, the season would contain more games so every team would get at least a second or third chance at the AI, whilst also keeping the provincial championships alive with the seeding. None of the big teams like KK etc would like to be unseeded going into the group stages.
Why are all these hard-core traditionalists not going to games then? the attendances are falling badly under the current system. I think a new system with seeding would see better attendances while also giving teams plenty of games
Quote from: EddieMerx on June 24, 2009, 12:10:18 PM
Why are all these hard-core traditionalists not going to games then? the attendances are falling badly under the current system. I think a new system with seeding would see better attendances while also giving teams plenty of games
They are going to the games in fairness Eddie. The reason for the attendances falling is because of the recession and also the ridiculous GAA pricing structure.
Even at club level you have to pay a fiver to get into games. My brother trains a junior b team in tipperary. They were playing a championship match two years ago and were short a player. Since I wasnt hurling at all that year i said id go along and play for the craic under a different name. It was the last game and it couldnt have any effect on the championship as the other team had qualified and my brothers team were already knocked out.
I arrived up a little late to the match and there was a lad on the gate charging a fiver...once i got inside there was 5 people watching the game, 3 were selectors of the two teams and the other two were under 18 from the look of them.
Years ago you could get into all these matches free and only had to pay a few quid to watch your senior teams play. Now the GAA is too much after money and people are weighing up whether paying about €50 to get to croker, €50 for food and about €150 for tickets is worth it for a family day out when they could probably get half a week in Lanzarotie for that!!
They are going to have to bring prices down if they want to keep attendances up, saying they wont put prices up is a joke, seeing your county hurl / play football has moved from being a social neccesity to a luxury at the minute
Can't agree with you there, the pricing is high but how many are in their local spending a small fortune watching the game? People just don't want to travel because they all think what's the point in wasting money because they will only lose.
Quote from: EddieMerx on June 24, 2009, 02:21:15 PM
Can't agree with you there, the pricing is high but how many are in their local spending a small fortune watching the game? People just don't want to travel because they all think what's the point in wasting money because they will only lose.
No not at all, the gaa games used to be a family day out, not so anymore, it costs hundreds of euro to go and watch one game. I have had people consistently complaining about this to me. If you go and watch the match in your local...and even stayed there for the whole day drinking you wouldnt come close to the cost of actually taking your family to see it.
An Example would be the Offaly Wexford match, I couldnt go as I was working but had been planning to go. Now when I think of the cost it would have been approx €40 for petrol & about what €25 or so for a ticket, add in some food and youre at about €80 for a first round championship match. And that is for a single person. Think of a family say with 3 kids
Transport €40
Food €60
Tickets €80
Those figures are approximately and you can probably add on another €50 by the time youre done. No one has this kind of money to spend on 70 minutes entertainment anymore. And when you think that most counties will have 4 - 5 days out in the year you wont be far off spending a grand!! Then you are expected to support your club at all levels aswell, and with county boards charging €15 & €20 into senior club matches it is an unsustainable situation.
I expect attendances to drasticly reduce this year and prove my point ;D
Its not that people dont want to go to matches as you say, its because they cant afford to go to them all, so they make choices on which match to go to. For example if Offaly were playing KK next weekend there would be a smaller crowd travelling from both counties than Offaly Vs Wexford, because as you say both teams will anticipate an easy victory by KK.
But the underlying problem is the money.
I don't agree I think people are bored. The reality is kilkenny will win the next 3 leinsters at least so at this stage their fans couldn't be bothered.
Munster is struggling as well crowd wise.
Quote from: INDIANA on June 24, 2009, 05:14:46 PM
I don't agree I think people are bored. The reality is kilkenny will win the next 3 leinsters at least so at this stage their fans couldn't be bothered.
Munster is struggling as well crowd wise.
Galway have a good case in the next 3 years. I don't think it's a sure fire as you say
Galway won't win with one man