Was hoping Fermanagh would win today. Not because I think they will be easy for us but because we get a home tie. In fact, I tipped Fermanagh for Ulster last year and I believe them to be still a very under rated team. Cavan have some quality up front and in patches around the field but the question is do we have a game plan as strong as Fermanaghs and do we have the ability to match Fermanaghs work rate for 70 minutes?
We are weak in the FB line but Fermanagh are not great up there although the big Carson lad from Newtownbutler did well in the last 1/4 against Down. I think Fermanagh are favorites but I think we might just sneak this game if we play at the top of our game.
Fermanagh by 10, we dont have a hope
Thats the party line Myles ;)
Fermanagh by 5.
Not sure if our probable full back Dermot Sheridan will have the size for Ryan Carson,
could be a long day of bombscares everytime the ball goes in high(or at all!!! )
into our full back line. :-\
Could cavan be as bad as down i think down is the worst and most unfit county team i ever have seen.
Quote from: BallyhaiseMan on May 17, 2009, 09:03:28 PM
Not sure if our probable full back Dermot Sheridan will have the size for Ryan Carson,
could be a long day of bombscares everytime the ball goes in high(or at all!!! )
into our full back line. :-\
I think Carson mite actually suit Dermot Sheridan,he is a wee bit slow but very physical.If Dermot can just break ball and our corner backs and half backs b alert for it. Very impressed with Fermanaghs long range shooting in 1st half,something no team can defend against.Im delighted with the fact we are at home,but it will be very tight.Fermanagh have to be favourites,but like most Cavan people blinded by strange and unfounded optimism,we mite come away with a win.Just mite!
Malachy O Rourke will have an awful lot to say about that tho.Very very good manager with a bit of an inside track on Cavan.Could make the difference.
Quote from: aroundincircles on May 17, 2009, 09:12:13 PM
Could cavan be as bad as down i think down is the worst and most unfit county team i ever have seen.
which is suprising to say given as they have Paddy Tally who has a great reputation after training Tyrone when they won their first Sam, doing their Fitness training.
Home advantage will be a huge asset to us, We may pip Fermanagh by a few points,but they will rightly start as favourites.
Quote from: boojangles on May 17, 2009, 09:19:32 PM
Quote from: BallyhaiseMan on May 17, 2009, 09:03:28 PM
Not sure if our probable full back Dermot Sheridan will have the size for Ryan Carson,
could be a long day of bombscares everytime the ball goes in high(or at all!!! )
into our full back line. :-\
I think Carson mite actually suit Dermot Sheridan,he is a wee bit slow but very physical.If Dermot can just break ball and our corner backs and half backs b alert for it. Very impressed with Fermanaghs long range shooting in 1st half,something no team can defend against.Im delighted with the fact we are at home,but it will be very tight.Fermanagh have to be favourites,but like most Cavan people blinded by strange and unfounded optimism,we mite come away with a win.Just mite!
Malachy O Rourke will have an awful lot to say about that tho.Very very good manager with a bit of an inside track on Cavan.Could make the difference.
Carson looks tall, well over 6ft,if so he will be a serious handful.
You're right about O Rourke, quality manager,been successful in every place he has been.
Down have some right lads but very little good men. Cavan in briefne wont be soft all the same for the fermanagh men.
Quote from: BallyhaiseMan on May 17, 2009, 09:22:20 PM
Quote from: boojangles on May 17, 2009, 09:19:32 PM
Quote from: BallyhaiseMan on May 17, 2009, 09:03:28 PM
Not sure if our probable full back Dermot Sheridan will have the size for Ryan Carson,
could be a long day of bombscares everytime the ball goes in high(or at all!!! )
into our full back line. :-\
I think Carson mite actually suit Dermot Sheridan,he is a wee bit slow but very physical.If Dermot can just break ball and our corner backs and half backs b alert for it. Very impressed with Fermanaghs long range shooting in 1st half,something no team can defend against.Im delighted with the fact we are at home,but it will be very tight.Fermanagh have to be favourites,but like most Cavan people blinded by strange and unfounded optimism,we mite come away with a win.Just mite!
Malachy O Rourke will have an awful lot to say about that tho.Very very good manager with a bit of an inside track on Cavan.Could make the difference.
Carson looks tall, well over 6ft,if so he will be a serious handful.
You're right about O Rourke, quality manager,been successful in every place he has been.
Would his term so far in fermanagh be labelled as successfull??
Quote from: aroundincircles on May 17, 2009, 09:23:59 PM
Quote from: BallyhaiseMan on May 17, 2009, 09:22:20 PM
Quote from: boojangles on May 17, 2009, 09:19:32 PM
Quote from: BallyhaiseMan on May 17, 2009, 09:03:28 PM
Not sure if our probable full back Dermot Sheridan will have the size for Ryan Carson,
could be a long day of bombscares everytime the ball goes in high(or at all!!! )
into our full back line. :-\
I think Carson mite actually suit Dermot Sheridan,he is a wee bit slow but very physical.If Dermot can just break ball and our corner backs and half backs b alert for it. Very impressed with Fermanaghs long range shooting in 1st half,something no team can defend against.Im delighted with the fact we are at home,but it will be very tight.Fermanagh have to be favourites,but like most Cavan people blinded by strange and unfounded optimism,we mite come away with a win.Just mite!
Malachy O Rourke will have an awful lot to say about that tho.Very very good manager with a bit of an inside track on Cavan.Could make the difference.
Carson looks tall, well over 6ft,if so he will be a serious handful.
You're right about O Rourke, quality manager,been successful in every place he has been.
Would his term so far in fermanagh be labelled as successfull??
Most Definetely
bringing Fermanagh to their first Ulster final since circa 1983????
Beating two fancied teams in Monaghan and Derry.on the way
Horrible shooting and judgement from his players cost them against Armagh.
They were poor against Kildare alright,but they had a great year last year.
Hes one of the best managers in the business in my opinion.
this game is another that will be very close to call --ive a sneaky suspicion Cavan might get to an Ulster final this year. If Seanie cut loose Cavan have a good chance but Fermanagh's defence impressed me today.
It really is close to call but i think Cavan might sneak it as Fermanagh wont take well to being favourites. Its a tag that doesnt sit comfortably with them.
Quote from: Gold on May 18, 2009, 12:14:38 AM
this game is another that will be very close to call --ive a sneaky suspicion Cavan might get to an Ulster final this year. If Seanie cut loose Cavan have a good chance but Fermanagh's defence impressed me today.
It really is close to call but i think Cavan might sneak it as Fermanagh wont take well to being favourites. Its a tag that doesnt sit comfortably with them.
Jelly will be doing well to get any room against Fermanagh,O Rourke will have a man dropped in front Id imagine. We will need a few other lads to step up to it in Breifne.Hopefully Pierson can shake off these injuries.On his day he can tear any defence apart,brilliant footballer but its time he showed Ulster and the rest again. Cullivan hopefully is another who can influence things,while Mackey really could be a star too.With them 4 on form we have a chance.Heres hoping.Talk of an Ulster final is crazy at the moment IMO though,Our defence just wouldnt hold.Hopefully The Gunner is available,definite for centre half IMO.
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 17, 2009, 08:48:11 PM
Fermanagh by 5.
Perhaps, but it would be more likely to be Derry by 5 next weekend :P
Quote from: mylestheslasher on May 18, 2009, 08:08:57 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 17, 2009, 08:48:11 PM
Fermanagh by 5.
Perhaps, but it would be more likely to be Derry by 5 next weekend :P
Possibly, although i wouldn't say more likely. But there's another thread for that game.
Is this match on a Saturday evening? Has the makings of a great day out.
Hopefully O'Rourke can get everyone grounded again.
Quote from: ExiledGael on May 18, 2009, 09:11:11 PM
Is this match on a Saturday evening? Has the makings of a great day out.
Hopefully O'Rourke can get everyone grounded again.
Throw in is at 7pm. I would suggest that there'll be a big Fermanagh crowd out in Cavan that night, regardless of the result!
Yeah Saturday evening. It's all set up for a night out in Cavan after the match (hopefully to celebrate)
Fermanagh will actually start this one as favourites which is the first time we will start an Ulster Championship match as favourites since 2006 against Antrim. I don't think this bunch will pay any heed to press commentary/speculation etc anyway.
Fermanagh have plenty of options in the full back line with Shane Goan well fit to do a job on Seanie Johnson (after all he ahs done so on Bradley, McDonnell et al already) and any of Bogue/Sherry/Lyons or even Brady showing enough to suggest they could take Ger Pierson.
As a Fermanagh man I would have to be optimstic about our chances and I find it hard to understand how many of the Cavan fans on Hoganstand are optimstic about delivering a couple of point victory? To my knowledge a lot of people have seen Ulster as a three tier champrionship over the past few years:
Tier 1
Tyrone
Armagh
Tier 2
Monaghan
Derry
Donegal
Fermanagh
Down
Tier 3
Cavan
Antrim
In 2008 Cavan beat Antrim and lost to Armagh (and then Kildare in the qualifiers)
In 2007 Cavan lost to Down in the preliminary round after a replay (and lost to Mayo in qualifiers round 1)
In 2006 Cavan lost in the preliminary round to Down (and lost to Kildare in qualifiers round 1)
In 2005 Cavan beat Antrim after a replay (and beat Donegal and Meath in the qualifiers before losing to Mayo)
In 2004 Cavan beat Down after a replay and lost to Armagh(and then lost to Derry in the qualifiers)
In 2003 Cavan lost to Antrim (and beat Louth in the qualifiers before losing to Fermanagh)
Fermanagh are now 10-1 for Ulster and Cavan are 14-1. Quite the cut in Fermanagh's odds (28-1 before the Down match)
Well hopefully all of Fermanagh comes to Breifne on the 6th and more importantly into town after.I havent been out in Cavan in a while but if theres the hope of a few Fermanagh women about I could be tempted.Somethin about the Northern women,there not stuck up their own holes like most Cavan birds. ;D ;D
Looks like Micky Lyng could play sum part yet, according to this. Will eb back for the folowing round at worst...
http://www.anglocelt.ie/sport/
Wots the word on Jonston, is he fit?
Quote from: boojangles on May 19, 2009, 01:19:18 PM
Well hopefully all of Fermanagh comes to Breifne on the 6th and more importantly into town after.I havent been out in Cavan in a while but if theres the hope of a few Fermanagh women about I could be tempted.Somethin about the Northern women,there not stuck up their own holes like most Cavan birds. ;D ;D
Where would you recommend for pre match and apres match pints??
was in the Imperial a month or 2 ago, and the price of drink was serious in it!!!
PS Jarlath Burns's article about Down-fermangh last week in Gaelic Life was absolutely spot on. cOULD SOMEONE POST IT HERE?
Wonder what he has to say about Cavan v Fermangh?
Quote from: Caid on May 18, 2009, 09:46:56 PM
As a Fermanagh man I would have to be optimstic about our chances and I find it hard to understand how many of the Cavan fans on Hoganstand are optimstic about delivering a couple of point victory?
We all find it hard to understand a lot of the fans on Hoganstand, I wouldn't be too worried.
Both sides have reasons for optimism I think. Fermanagh have performed much better in championship than us of late, but we were effectively mismanaged for the last two/three years so that skews the picture of us a lot. Aside from that, most people further assess Cavan on league form and fair enough, we were patchy and yet when we got our ducks in a row against promotion chasing sides like Down and Ros, we looked half decent. I would have liked promotion at start of year but took a fair few positives out of the campaign all the same. The biggest being that we seem to have a manager that's attuned to the needs of the team, has fucked out a few of the shitehawkers at long long last and reports from training of late are very positive. We're hardly going to win anything this year or anything like that but we are under the radar to a small degree and Fermanagh will have to cope with being favourites too.
So I think we'll give this a right rattle and win by a point or two at home. If we keep the fouling to a minimum and stretch your defence in a way Down woefully faield to do, I think we can win it but it's a very close one to call.
Quote from: FermGael on May 19, 2009, 01:29:06 PM
Quote from: boojangles on May 19, 2009, 01:19:18 PM
Well hopefully all of Fermanagh comes to Breifne on the 6th and more importantly into town after.I havent been out in Cavan in a while but if theres the hope of a few Fermanagh women about I could be tempted.Somethin about the Northern women,there not stuck up their own holes like most Cavan birds. ;D ;D
Where would you recommend for pre match and apres match pints??
was in the Imperial a month or 2 ago, and the price of drink was serious in it!!!
I'd def recommend the Breffni Inn, Closest pub to the ground and a classy little spot.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on May 19, 2009, 03:37:44 PM
Quote from: FermGael on May 19, 2009, 01:29:06 PM
Quote from: boojangles on May 19, 2009, 01:19:18 PM
Well hopefully all of Fermanagh comes to Breifne on the 6th and more importantly into town after.I havent been out in Cavan in a while but if theres the hope of a few Fermanagh women about I could be tempted.Somethin about the Northern women,there not stuck up their own holes like most Cavan birds. ;D ;D
Where would you recommend for pre match and apres match pints??
was in the Imperial a month or 2 ago, and the price of drink was serious in it!!!
I'd def recommend the Breffni Inn, Closest pub to the ground and a classy little spot.
Thats where the whole Down ones hung about the last time they were up. Tip into the off-licence and get your drink there and drink it outside.
Quote from: cavan4ever on May 19, 2009, 03:48:34 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on May 19, 2009, 03:37:44 PM
Quote from: FermGael on May 19, 2009, 01:29:06 PM
Quote from: boojangles on May 19, 2009, 01:19:18 PM
Well hopefully all of Fermanagh comes to Breifne on the 6th and more importantly into town after.I havent been out in Cavan in a while but if theres the hope of a few Fermanagh women about I could be tempted.Somethin about the Northern women,there not stuck up their own holes like most Cavan birds. ;D ;D
Where would you recommend for pre match and apres match pints??
was in the Imperial a month or 2 ago, and the price of drink was serious in it!!!
I'd def recommend the Breffni Inn, Closest pub to the ground and a classy little spot.
Thats where the whole Down ones hung about the last time they were up. Tip into the off-licence and get your drink there and drink it outside.
The Breifne Inn is no Ritz but its not too bad of a spot these days,if you hear ""here Boss throw us up another there hi"" Id turn on me heels but if the Pikies are away on duty or something,then the Breifne Inn is the closest pub to Kingspan and you could drink outside in the carpark.
Wouldnt go near the Imperial. McGinnitys ( a cousin of the Fermanagh legend) or the Slieve Rossa are both beside the Bus Station and would be lively before the game.10 Mins walk from the ground and cheaper too.
It would want to have improved. It is the only pub to get 0 out of 5 twice in pub spy in the Sunday World!
There are a couple of reasons Cavan people are a little bit more confident of beating Fermanagh than perhaps they should be..
- Historically we have an excellent record against them, Fermanagh have never beaten us in Ulster. Mentaly that has an effect.
- Fermanagh are not a team to really hammer someone, their games are normally close. Once a game is close you're always in with a shout.
Fermanagh are a more experienced, hardened team with a strong work ethic and are mentally quite strong. I think Cavan might have more naturally gifted footballers but have questionable commitment, work rate and mental strength. If we can match Fermanagh for fight and effort we'll have a decent chance.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on May 19, 2009, 08:47:39 PM
There are a couple of reasons Cavan people are a little bit more confident of beating Fermanagh than perhaps they should be..
- Historically we have an excellent record against them, Fermanagh have never beaten us in Ulster. Mentaly that has an effect.
- Fermanagh are not a team to really hammer someone, their games are normally close. Once a game is close you're always in with a shout.
Fermanagh are a more experienced, hardened team with a strong work ethic and are mentally quite strong. I think Cavan might have more naturally gifted footballers but have questionable commitment, work rate and mental strength. If we can match Fermanagh for fight and effort we'll have a decent chance.
Fermanagh have a awful championship record against Down but it didn't stop them beating them on Sunday. In fact historically Fermanagh have a poor record against most of the teams in Ulster. Although Fermanagh defeated Cavan in their last championship meeting (2003), history and records mean nothing in these games. It all comes down to the day and who wants it the most.
what sort of state is Breffini in???
I was at a match in it 2 months ago and the surface was not great.
Any improvement??
Quote from: FermGael on May 19, 2009, 10:54:00 PM
what sort of state is Breffini in???
I was at a match in it 2 months ago and the surface was not great.
Any improvement??
You can be assured that Breifne will be in top shape come June 6th.I have rarely played on a bad surface in Breifne,especially not at Championship time.
Quote from: FermPundit on May 19, 2009, 10:38:25 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on May 19, 2009, 08:47:39 PM
There are a couple of reasons Cavan people are a little bit more confident of beating Fermanagh than perhaps they should be..
- Historically we have an excellent record against them, Fermanagh have never beaten us in Ulster. Mentaly that has an effect.
- Fermanagh are not a team to really hammer someone, their games are normally close. Once a game is close you're always in with a shout.
Fermanagh are a more experienced, hardened team with a strong work ethic and are mentally quite strong. I think Cavan might have more naturally gifted footballers but have questionable commitment, work rate and mental strength. If we can match Fermanagh for fight and effort we'll have a decent chance.
Fermanagh have a awful championship record against Down but it didn't stop them beating them on Sunday. In fact historically Fermanagh have a poor record against most of the teams in Ulster. Although Fermanagh defeated Cavan in their last championship meeting (2003), history and records mean nothing in these games. It all comes down to the day and who wants it the most.
The point I was trying to make is that Cavan have no mental baggage about playing Fermanagh. They do about Derry, Tyrone and to a lesser extent Armagh. When we play these teams we are normally bet before we start. I am in no way belittling the ability of Fermanagh. I think they are a fine team and are not getting the credit they deserve for what they have done over the past 4-5 years.
This will be a very tough game for Fermanagh. We are slight favourites going into the game and that never sits well with us. There should be a fairly good crowd at it, assuming it won't be televised. Cavan will come out all guns blazing and if they get a good early start then we could be in trouble. Hopefully our experience over the last few years can see us through though. Some good news for Fermanagh is the fact that Womble has returned to these shores in the last 24 hours and will be rejoining the panel very shortly. ;D This will give us some extra cover in midfield and should mean that Blobby won't have to be moved from FF. Looking forward to this game moreso than the Down game, I was very apprehensive in the build up to that game.
Quote from: Emmett on May 20, 2009, 08:38:35 PM
This will be a very tough game for Fermanagh. We are slight favourites going into the game and that never sits well with us. There should be a fairly good crowd at it, assuming it won't be televised. Cavan will come out all guns blazing and if they get a good early start then we could be in trouble. Hopefully our experience over the last few years can see us through though. Some good news for Fermanagh is the fact that Womble has returned to these shores in the last 24 hours and will be rejoining the panel very shortly. ;D This will give us some extra cover in midfield and should mean that Blobby won't have to be moved from FF. Looking forward to this game moreso than the Down game, I was very apprehensive in the build up to that game.
I believe the game is live on rte.
Methodology
- We all know that modern day managers love to pour over statistics to enhance performance and Malachy appears to be the master of identifying other team's strengths and weaknesses and exploiting that knowledge to maximum potential.
- The analysis below summarises the performance of both teams in this years National League and the conclusions that Malachy is likely to reach following said analysis
Cavan analysis
- 63% of Cavan's scores came from dead balls/frees in the NFL (scored mainly by Johnston (50%), Pierson (24%) and Martin Reilly (21%))
- 56% of all of Cavan's scores came from three players (Johnston (32%), Pierson (12%) and Martin Reilly (12%))
- Seanie Johnston scored 21% of all of the scores Cavan got from open play whilst Larry Reilly got 11%. In total 19 different players scored in the league
- Cavan averaged 13 points a game whilst Seanie Johnston averaged 4 points a game and Ger Pierson 5.5 points a game in the two games he played (although as noted around half of these were from placed balls)
- Cavan conceded on average 13.4 points a game
- Cavan won two out of their three home games scoring an average of 12 points and conceding an average of 9 points
Fermanagh analysis
- Only 29% of Fermanagh's scores came from frees in the NFL (scored mainly by Daryl and O'Brien)
- Moreover, of the scores scored against Fermanagh only 29% came from placed balls
- Fermanagh's highest scorers from play in the league were Ferris (9), Sherry (6), Wee Man (6) and O'Brien, Carson and Macsy (5) with the scores shared amongst 16 squad members
- Fermanagh scored an average of 12.4 points per game and conceded 15.1 points
- In away games Fermanagh won 1 and drew 1 out of 4 scoring 13.3 points on average and conceding 15.3 points
Summary
- Cavan are heavily reliant on scoring frees to win games
- Fermanagh do not concede many frees (or at least frees in scoreable positions) as evidenced throughout the league and against Down
- The much lauded Seanie Johnston scored the majority of his scores from frees (3 points from play against Louth, two from play in three other games and one from play in three other games). Shane Goan has done effective man marking jobs on some of the best forwards in Ireland and can hold Johnston to a few scores from play, whilst Niall Bogue could pick up Pierson
- Fermanagh scored seven goals in seven league games whilst Cavan only scored two (both goals in the first six minutes against a Louth team which struggled past Carlow)
Conclusion
- Cavan 0-9 Fermanagh 1-9
- Man of the match: Tommy McElroy
- Fermanagh scorers: Daryl Keenan 1-1, R Carson 0-2, C McElroy 0-1, T McElroy 0-1, J Sherry 0-1, R Keenan 0-1, E Maguire 0-1, S O'Brien 0-1
Key message
- Fermanagh have been much maligned by the media for not having a "seven point a game" forward. However, whilst having a good freetaker would be beneficial, it is not critical as Fermanagh is no longer reliant on scores from placed balls
- Having such a good defence (and man markers and the sweeper system) means that we are well placed to play against teams that are overly reliant on one or two key men for scores (e.g. McDonnell/Clarke, Bradley/Bradley, Tommy Freeman) and even more so against teams that rely on handy frees for scores
- To this end the referee selected will also have a key role to play
Is that your own work Caid? Good stuff but the Ulster Championship usually makes a mockery of statistics and predictions.
Great news about Womble if true? Assume he's some way off fitness though.
Good piece of analysis, Caid. Some interesting stats there as well. Have you already sent this to Malachy??
Quote from: Emmett on May 20, 2009, 08:38:35 PM
This will give us some extra cover in midfield and should mean that Blobby won't have to be moved from FF.
This is fantastic news - although he won't start against Cavan. Hopefully he can get a few games in for Derrylin soon
Quote from: ExiledGael on May 20, 2009, 08:47:08 PM
Is that your own work Caid? Good stuff but the Ulster Championship usually makes a mockery of statistics and predictions.
Great news about Womble if true? Assume he's some way off fitness though.
All evidence points to a Fermanagh win. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not!
Womble seems to have deleted his Bebo profile over the last few weeks. Maybe Malachy was trying to do this on the sly and Emmett has let the cat out of the bag?!
Quote from: Emmett on May 20, 2009, 08:38:35 PM
This will be a very tough game for Fermanagh. We are slight favourites going into the game and that never sits well with us. There should be a fairly good crowd at it, assuming it won't be televised. Cavan will come out all guns blazing and if they get a good early start then we could be in trouble. Hopefully our experience over the last few years can see us through though. Some good news for Fermanagh is the fact that Womble has returned to these shores in the last 24 hours and will be rejoining the panel very shortly. ;D This will give us some extra cover in midfield and should mean that Blobby won't have to be moved from FF. Looking forward to this game moreso than the Down game, I was very apprehensive in the build up to that game.
Great news about Womble but James Sherry was very impressive against Down so I really hope Malachy doesn't start to move him around the forward line to accomodate Womle's return. James Sherry never was and never will be a forward. Midfield is his best position!
Quote from: Emmett on May 20, 2009, 08:38:35 PM
Some good news for Fermanagh is the fact that Womble has returned to these shores in the last 24 hours and will be rejoining the panel very shortly. ;D This will give us some extra cover in midfield and should mean that Blobby won't have to be moved from FF. Looking forward to this game moreso than the Down game, I was very apprehensive in the build up to that game.
Is this confirmed Emmett??
I thought he was headin to Boston for the summer???
Who to non fermanagh posters is womble?? The name rings a bell but can't think who it is...
Mark Murphy
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 20, 2009, 10:08:50 PM
Who to non fermanagh posters is womble?? The name rings a bell but can't think who it is...
Mark Murphy. Played midfield all of last year.
Quote from: Caid on May 20, 2009, 08:42:11 PM
Methodology
- We all know that modern day managers love to pour over statistics to enhance performance and Malachy appears to be the master of identifying other team's strengths and weaknesses and exploiting that knowledge to maximum potential.
- The analysis below summarises the performance of both teams in this years National League and the conclusions that Malachy is likely to reach following said analysis
Cavan analysis
- 63% of Cavan's scores came from dead balls/frees in the NFL (scored mainly by Johnston (50%), Pierson (24%) and Martin Reilly (21%))
- 56% of all of Cavan's scores came from three players (Johnston (32%), Pierson (12%) and Martin Reilly (12%))
- Seanie Johnston scored 21% of all of the scores Cavan got from open play whilst Larry Reilly got 11%. In total 19 different players scored in the league
- Cavan averaged 13 points a game whilst Seanie Johnston averaged 4 points a game and Ger Pierson 5.5 points a game in the two games he played (although as noted around half of these were from placed balls)
- Cavan conceded on average 13.4 points a game
- Cavan won two out of their three home games scoring an average of 12 points and conceding an average of 9 points
Fermanagh analysis
- Only 29% of Fermanagh's scores came from frees in the NFL (scored mainly by Daryl and O'Brien)
- Moreover, of the scores scored against Fermanagh only 29% came from placed balls
- Fermanagh's highest scorers from play in the league were Ferris (9), Sherry (6), Wee Man (6) and O'Brien, Carson and Macsy (5) with the scores shared amongst 16 squad members
- Fermanagh scored an average of 12.4 points per game and conceded 15.1 points
- In away games Fermanagh won 1 and drew 1 out of 4 scoring 13.3 points on average and conceding 15.3 points
Summary
- Cavan are heavily reliant on scoring frees to win games
- Fermanagh do not concede many frees (or at least frees in scoreable positions) as evidenced throughout the league and against Down
- The much lauded Seanie Johnston scored the majority of his scores from frees (3 points from play against Louth, two from play in three other games and one from play in three other games). Shane Goan has done effective man marking jobs on some of the best forwards in Ireland and can hold Johnston to a few scores from play, whilst Niall Bogue could pick up Pierson
- Fermanagh scored seven goals in seven league games whilst Cavan only scored two (both goals in the first six minutes against a Louth team which struggled past Carlow)
Conclusion
- Cavan 0-9 Fermanagh 1-9
- Man of the match: Tommy McElroy
- Fermanagh scorers: Daryl Keenan 1-1, R Carson 0-2, C McElroy 0-1, T McElroy 0-1, J Sherry 0-1, R Keenan 0-1, E Maguire 0-1, S O'Brien 0-1
Key message
- Fermanagh have been much maligned by the media for not having a "seven point a game" forward. However, whilst having a good freetaker would be beneficial, it is not critical as Fermanagh is no longer reliant on scores from placed balls
- Having such a good defence (and man markers and the sweeper system) means that we are well placed to play against teams that are overly reliant on one or two key men for scores (e.g. McDonnell/Clarke, Bradley/Bradley, Tommy Freeman) and even more so against teams that rely on handy frees for scores
- To this end the referee selected will also have a key role to play
Oh dear, looks bad for Cavan doesn't it. Based on these statistics I expect that Fermanagh will probably win 1-20 to 0-6, Cavans scorers S Johnstone 0-6 (all frees). Oh well, there is always the back door (hopefully we'll get carlow)
Quote from: mylestheslasher on May 20, 2009, 10:16:39 PM
Quote from: Caid on May 20, 2009, 08:42:11 PM
Methodology
- We all know that modern day managers love to pour over statistics to enhance performance and Malachy appears to be the master of identifying other team's strengths and weaknesses and exploiting that knowledge to maximum potential.
- The analysis below summarises the performance of both teams in this years National League and the conclusions that Malachy is likely to reach following said analysis
Cavan analysis
- 63% of Cavan's scores came from dead balls/frees in the NFL (scored mainly by Johnston (50%), Pierson (24%) and Martin Reilly (21%))
- 56% of all of Cavan's scores came from three players (Johnston (32%), Pierson (12%) and Martin Reilly (12%))
- Seanie Johnston scored 21% of all of the scores Cavan got from open play whilst Larry Reilly got 11%. In total 19 different players scored in the league
- Cavan averaged 13 points a game whilst Seanie Johnston averaged 4 points a game and Ger Pierson 5.5 points a game in the two games he played (although as noted around half of these were from placed balls)
- Cavan conceded on average 13.4 points a game
- Cavan won two out of their three home games scoring an average of 12 points and conceding an average of 9 points
Fermanagh analysis
- Only 29% of Fermanagh's scores came from frees in the NFL (scored mainly by Daryl and O'Brien)
- Moreover, of the scores scored against Fermanagh only 29% came from placed balls
- Fermanagh's highest scorers from play in the league were Ferris (9), Sherry (6), Wee Man (6) and O'Brien, Carson and Macsy (5) with the scores shared amongst 16 squad members
- Fermanagh scored an average of 12.4 points per game and conceded 15.1 points
- In away games Fermanagh won 1 and drew 1 out of 4 scoring 13.3 points on average and conceding 15.3 points
Summary
- Cavan are heavily reliant on scoring frees to win games
- Fermanagh do not concede many frees (or at least frees in scoreable positions) as evidenced throughout the league and against Down
- The much lauded Seanie Johnston scored the majority of his scores from frees (3 points from play against Louth, two from play in three other games and one from play in three other games). Shane Goan has done effective man marking jobs on some of the best forwards in Ireland and can hold Johnston to a few scores from play, whilst Niall Bogue could pick up Pierson
- Fermanagh scored seven goals in seven league games whilst Cavan only scored two (both goals in the first six minutes against a Louth team which struggled past Carlow)
Conclusion
- Cavan 0-9 Fermanagh 1-9
- Man of the match: Tommy McElroy
- Fermanagh scorers: Daryl Keenan 1-1, R Carson 0-2, C McElroy 0-1, T McElroy 0-1, J Sherry 0-1, R Keenan 0-1, E Maguire 0-1, S O'Brien 0-1
Key message
- Fermanagh have been much maligned by the media for not having a "seven point a game" forward. However, whilst having a good freetaker would be beneficial, it is not critical as Fermanagh is no longer reliant on scores from placed balls
- Having such a good defence (and man markers and the sweeper system) means that we are well placed to play against teams that are overly reliant on one or two key men for scores (e.g. McDonnell/Clarke, Bradley/Bradley, Tommy Freeman) and even more so against teams that rely on handy frees for scores
- To this end the referee selected will also have a key role to play
Oh dear, looks bad for Cavan doesn't it. Based on these statistics I expect that Fermanagh will probably win 1-20 to 0-6, Cavans scorers S Johnstone 0-6 (all frees). Oh well, there is always the back door (hopefully we'll get carlow)
Is there any point in playing the match at all? :)
Brilliant bit of stats there alright.Everything broken down briliantly.The conclusion however is a bit of a waste of time,but anyway,worth a guess I suppose.Everything points to a Fermanagh win but if other players can step up to it,apart from Jelly and lesser extent Pierson we mite have a chance.
Our home record in Ulster is patchy,defeats by Armagh(08),Donegal (02) and Derry (00) in the last decade.
Very intersting breakdown alright, but everything is predicated on the assumption that one sort of intercounty football (league) is the same as the other (championship).
As we know they're very different animals altogether, in terms of pace, team motivation, fitness etc. You can't really take too much from the stats, interesting and good reading though they are Caid.
As the season progresses, doing similar analyses using championship games only would give a great snapshot of a team though.
QuoteAs the season progresses, doing similar analyses using championship games only would give a great snapshot of a team though.
It would, but some teams won't be in the championship long enough to get a statistically useful sample, whereas everyone plays 7 games in the League.
Quote from: FermGael on May 20, 2009, 10:13:53 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 20, 2009, 10:08:50 PM
Who to non fermanagh posters is womble?? The name rings a bell but can't think who it is...
Mark Murphy. Played midfield all of last year.
Wombles are a bit small to play midfield if memory serves me correctly.
They're excellent at working off scraps though Myles.
I'll get me coat....
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 18, 2009, 09:07:59 AM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on May 18, 2009, 08:08:57 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 17, 2009, 08:48:11 PM
Fermanagh by 5.
Perhaps, but it would be more likely to be Derry by 5 next weekend :P
Possibly, although i wouldn't say more likely. But there's another thread for that game.
You were right, ye only lost by 3.
Are Fermanagh playing any challenge games these weeks. Cavan seem to be playing one every weekend.
As a Fermanagh man, i am worried about this game
whilst we beat down, i feel teams will begin to suss out our style and cavan are waiting in the long grass and keeping a low profile-tommy carr will be a shrewd game and breffni park is no easy venue
i am also concerned at our bench, have we an "X" factor that could change the game? someone to come on and kick a score?
looking at derry yesterday, i think we would have struggled
any word on owens/murphy?
Johnston injured in training. ::)
Somehow i think he might make it
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/the_championship/8075309.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/the_championship/8075309.stm)
QuoteCavan forward Seanie Johnston is rated as extremely doubtful for the Ulster SFC quarter-final against Fermanagh after pulling a hamstring in training.
With Michael Lyng already ruled out of the Breffni Park tie by injury, the loss of Johnston would be a massive blow to Cavan's attacking options.
Fermanagh go into Saturday evening's game on a high, following their preliminary round win over Down.
The winners will face Donegal or Antrim at the semi-final stage.
This is just a ploy from managers to divert attention and pressure.
Were all the county lads banned from the club league games today?
Quote from: ExiledGael on May 31, 2009, 08:12:45 PM
This is just a ploy from managers to divert attention and pressure.
Were all the county lads banned from the club league games today?
Yes.
Quote from: To whom it may concern on May 25, 2009, 11:56:05 AM
As a Fermanagh man, i am worried about this game
whilst we beat down, i feel teams will begin to suss out our style and cavan are waiting in the long grass and keeping a low profile-tommy carr will be a shrewd game and breffni park is no easy venue
i am also concerned at our bench, have we an "X" factor that could change the game? someone to come on and kick a score?
looking at derry yesterday, i think we would have struggled
any word on owens/murphy?
I would be of the same opinion that this could be a banana skin for Fermanagh, but I would be quietly confident of getting the right result.
As for the "X factor", I would say that we are stronger again from last year when you look at the starting 15 from the Down match and the lads that we potentially have coming back into contention over the next while i.e. Owens, Goan, Kelly, Sherry, Foy, Murphy, O'Brien, O'Reilly even Cadden & Ferris if they had a wee bit more experience and confidence boost, could be used in a range of ways to change the way the team are/could play.
Again with regards Derry and teams sussing out how we play, I think is being a bit negative for no real reason. I would fancy Fermanagh against any team in Ulster bar Tyrone, and they are the yardstick for the whole country. Its all well and good knowing how Fermanagh's system works and then stopping it. To be fair to Malachy, the system they played against Down will be different from the one used against Cavan. Each game will see players doing a diferent job based on what he thinks the opponents strength/weaknesses are. For example if Fermanagh missed some of the scores that were missed yesterday, they would have been ripped apart by the media; or if they set up like Armagh did, we would be listening about how Fermanagh are the most negative team in the world and potentially the cause of the credit crunch :P
Anyone know the ticket situation for Saturday evening? Heard it's all-ticket on stand side only but haven't seen that confirmed anywhere. How many can Breffni hold anyway?
Been soaking up the sun the past while haven't had a chance to reply...
QuoteIs that your own work Caid?
It was yeah - things are a bit slow at work these days ye know!
QuoteThe conclusion however is a bit of a waste of time,but anyway,worth a guess I suppose
Sure everyone on the board always says stuff like "Fermanagh by two" or "Cavan by three". I was just trying to see what the scoreline indicated by the NFL form would be. Similarly, whilst Fermanagh doesn't have a man that will get 5 or 6 points in every game we do have maybe half a dozen players that score in nearly every game so there are a few safe bets.
QuoteAs we know they're very different animals altogether, in terms of pace, team motivation, fitness etc. You can't really take too much from the stats
I was trying to approach it from the modern GAA manager viewpoint. Fermanagh's fitness and motivation shouldn't be a problem in any Ulster Championship match. So its about what else will make the difference. And that comes down to stopping Cavan's strengths and playing to Fermanagh's strengths. The analysis indicates that this means not conceding scoreable frees (which we are good at) and scoring goals (which we have got better at since last year). The other consideration is home advantage which is difficult to quantify
Quote from: ExiledGael on June 01, 2009, 07:36:28 PM
Anyone know the ticket situation for Saturday evening? Heard it's all-ticket on stand side only but haven't seen that confirmed anywhere. How many can Breffni hold anyway?
According to worldstadia "The stadium holds 32,000 spectators, 6,000 of which are seated."
22,657 were at the Cavan Armagh match in the Ulster quarter final last year and I don't think that match was on TV. Not sure how the game being on Saturday evening will affect the crowd but i'd say the attendance might be around 18,000? Depends on the weather I guess too and whether people sit in to watch the match and then the soccer
Quote from: ExiledGael on June 01, 2009, 07:36:28 PM
Anyone know the ticket situation for Saturday evening? Heard it's all-ticket on stand side only but haven't seen that confirmed anywhere. How many can Breffni hold anyway?
I haven't seen any official confirmation but it appears only the main stand is all ticket, which is great news. I think a crowd of us are just planning to go to the terrace on the open side. Hopefully the weather will stay good and there'll be a good atmosphere at the game.
Quote from: Caid on June 01, 2009, 08:25:11 PM
Quote from: ExiledGael on June 01, 2009, 07:36:28 PM
Anyone know the ticket situation for Saturday evening? Heard it's all-ticket on stand side only but haven't seen that confirmed anywhere. How many can Breffni hold anyway?
According to worldstadia "The stadium holds 32,000 spectators, 6,000 of which are seated."
22,657 were at the Cavan Armagh match in the Ulster quarter final last year and I don't think that match was on TV. Not sure how the game being on Saturday evening will affect the crowd but i'd say the attendance might be around 18,000? Depends on the weather I guess too and whether people sit in to watch the match and then the soccer
18,000 is probably optimistic Caid. I'll be there anyway, definitely on the terraces again I'd say.
Don't imagine teams will be out until Thursday night but I would be willing to put a large sum of money on O'Rourke naming the same team again. For all the talk of returning players Womble is not even a fortnight back in full training and Owens and O'Reilly haven't even completed a club game yet. Great options to come off the bench though and I think that will be cruicial, can see this being a fairly tight affair.
I hear the old Seamie Quigley issue rearing it's head again, O'Rourke apparently speaking to him after he kicked eight points against the Gaels in the first half recently. Scored another pile against Donagh on Sunday and word has it he's even off the drink. Anyway that's for another day, maybe even year.
I'm feeling pretty optimistic about the weekend, and that's incredibly worrying. Any more word on the Seanie Johnston nonsense?
Quote from: ExiledGael on June 01, 2009, 08:56:06 PM
Quote from: Caid on June 01, 2009, 08:25:11 PM
Quote from: ExiledGael on June 01, 2009, 07:36:28 PM
Anyone know the ticket situation for Saturday evening? Heard it's all-ticket on stand side only but haven't seen that confirmed anywhere. How many can Breffni hold anyway?
According to worldstadia "The stadium holds 32,000 spectators, 6,000 of which are seated."
22,657 were at the Cavan Armagh match in the Ulster quarter final last year and I don't think that match was on TV. Not sure how the game being on Saturday evening will affect the crowd but i'd say the attendance might be around 18,000? Depends on the weather I guess too and whether people sit in to watch the match and then the soccer
18,000 is probably optimistic Caid. I'll be there anyway, definitely on the terraces again I'd say.
Don't imagine teams will be out until Thursday night but I would be willing to put a large sum of money on O'Rourke naming the same team again. For all the talk of returning players Womble is not even a fortnight back in full training and Owens and O'Reilly haven't even completed a club game yet. Great options to come off the bench though and I think that will be cruicial, can see this being a fairly tight affair.
I hear the old Seamie Quigley issue rearing it's head again, O'Rourke apparently speaking to him after he kicked eight points against the Gaels in the first half recently. Scored another pile against Donagh on Sunday and word has it he's even off the drink. Anyway that's for another day, maybe even year.
I'm feeling pretty optimistic about the weekend, and that's incredibly worrying. Any more word on the Seanie Johnston nonsense?
I was at the Roslea Gaels match last weekend and Seamus Quigley was unreal, kicking points from all angles, but there's no point discussing his merits. He won't be playing this season anyway so it can wait for another day. With regards team selection for Saturday, the only change I can see is Mark Little being dropped, possibly for Shane O'Brien and maybe Shane Goan coming in for Niall Bogue. Womble, Owens and Reilly won't start but at least with these guys coming back to full fitness our squad is getting stronger. I heard Seanie Johnston pulled a hamstring on Friday night but I wouldn't believe a word of it. Maybe some of the Cavan posters can inform us of the real situation!! I'll be shocked if he doesn't start this weekend.
Would be harsh to take out Bogue after the last day but O'Rourke knows best.
Rory Foy might come into the reckoning but O'Rourke usually waits until the game before finalising the team, probably helps take some of the newcomers and selections out of the limelight. What sort of a crowd do you expect?
Quote from: ExiledGael on June 01, 2009, 09:10:38 PM
Would be harsh to take out Bogue after the last day but O'Rourke knows best.
Rory Foy might come into the reckoning but O'Rourke usually waits until the game before finalising the team, probably helps take some of the newcomers and selections out of the limelight. What sort of a crowd do you expect?
It would be harsh on Bogue, but I just think Shane Goan is a stronger defender and if he's fit, he should start IMO. I think there'll be around 15,000. I think the fact you can pay at the gate will increase the attendance.
On the local Cavan thread a lad posted saying he had chatted Seanie's old man and he wasnt sure after it whether the injury was serious or not.
The fact that he hasm at a minimum, strained a hamstring means that there's a fair chance he wont be at 100% for the game.
Sometimes this idea that Manager's put out stories of there players getting injured to throw of th eopposition can be a little exaggerated (which is partly because Malachy would be the main man for these mind games so we know towatch out for them!). Look at Coulter as an example.
You aren't gonna be able to totally fabricate an injury story without someone letting the secret out...
The game is not all ticket.
Quote from: Caid on June 01, 2009, 08:19:37 PM
QuoteAs we know they're very different animals altogether, in terms of pace, team motivation, fitness etc. You can't really take too much from the stats
I was trying to approach it from the modern GAA manager viewpoint. Fermanagh's fitness and motivation shouldn't be a problem in any Ulster Championship match. So its about what else will make the difference. And that comes down to stopping Cavan's strengths and playing to Fermanagh's strengths. The analysis indicates that this means not conceding scoreable frees (which we are good at) and scoring goals (which we have got better at since last year). The other consideration is home advantage which is difficult to quantify
Yep I still think it's a fairly useful exercise and fair play to you Caid, my point is more that because in the league teams apply themselves differently, experiment to greater and lesser degrees, have more or fewer players resting up etc., so in the strictest sense it's hard to say it's a fully accurate picture. Cavan, or Fermanagh, may be way better than in the games you've based your findings on because it's championship and they may even be far worse against more committed opponents than they faced in the league.
Teams will be very different in their approach and will wheel out their main tactics etc in championship, so what I'd love to see would be an anlaysis like this ahead of the All-Ireland quarter-finals where teams will have played roughly the same amount of games and you'd be using only flat-out championship games to draw conclusions. I think that'd be well worth reading anywyay. Good work all the same fella!
any idea why tickets for for this game are dearer than Sunday, 25e and 15e compared to 20e and 13e?
Quote from: omagh_gael on June 02, 2009, 09:38:05 AM
any idea why tickets for for this game are dearer than Sunday, 25e and 15e compared to 20e and 13e?
Yes. The reason is that the game is in Cavan.
Cavan team for next Saturday
James Reilly
Michael Brides
Dermot Sheridan
Michael Hannon
John McCutcheon
Eugene Keating
Padraic O'Reilly
Nicolas Walsh
Ciaran Galligan
Sean Brady
Ronan Flanagan
Cian Mackey
Martin Reilly
Ray Cullivan
Sean Johnston
Named at training yesterday, Johnston still rated by himself as doubtful but lads on panel I have been talking to say he will start.
I heard from a few involved in the cavan set up that the medical set up are against Johnston playing.The lads were saying he badly wanted tp play thou. same thing happened him before the Gaels played ulster club last year and he was off ater pulling the hamstring within 5 mins. I think this wud have a very demoralising effect on a newish looking cavan team. Heres hoping he will be ok.
Quote from: sams the aim on June 02, 2009, 10:19:49 PM
I heard from a few involved in the cavan set up that the medical set up are against Johnston playing.The lads were saying he badly wanted tp play thou. same thing happened him before the Gaels played ulster club last year and he was off ater pulling the hamstring within 5 mins. I think this wud have a very demoralising effect on a newish looking cavan team. Heres hoping he will be ok.
Surely Cavan would have learnt from Down and Benny Coulter that playing a half fit player doesn't work, regardless of his ability. I was having an argument with a few friends about seriousness of Seanie Johnston injury. I posted last night that I didn't believe a word of it. It looks like I could be wrong!
Quote from: FermGael on June 02, 2009, 01:12:07 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on June 02, 2009, 09:38:05 AM
any idea why tickets for for this game are dearer than Sunday, 25e and 15e compared to 20e and 13e?
Yes. The reason is that the game is in Cavan.
No its because the most successful glamour team of Ulster are playing ;D
Quote from: cavanmaniac on June 02, 2009, 12:20:40 AM
Quote from: Caid on June 01, 2009, 08:19:37 PM
QuoteAs we know they're very different animals altogether, in terms of pace, team motivation, fitness etc. You can't really take too much from the stats
I was trying to approach it from the modern GAA manager viewpoint. Fermanagh's fitness and motivation shouldn't be a problem in any Ulster Championship match. So its about what else will make the difference. And that comes down to stopping Cavan's strengths and playing to Fermanagh's strengths. The analysis indicates that this means not conceding scoreable frees (which we are good at) and scoring goals (which we have got better at since last year). The other consideration is home advantage which is difficult to quantify
Yep I still think it's a fairly useful exercise and fair play to you Caid, my point is more that because in the league teams apply themselves differently, experiment to greater and lesser degrees, have more or fewer players resting up etc., so in the strictest sense it's hard to say it's a fully accurate picture. Cavan, or Fermanagh, may be way better than in the games you've based your findings on because it's championship and they may even be far worse against more committed opponents than they faced in the league.
Teams will be very different in their approach and will wheel out their main tactics etc in championship, so what I'd love to see would be an anlaysis like this ahead of the All-Ireland quarter-finals where teams will have played roughly the same amount of games and you'd be using only flat-out championship games to draw conclusions. I think that'd be well worth reading anywyay. Good work all the same fella!
Jaysus Maniac we'd be waiting a brave lough of years before we could get any hard statistical analysis of Cavan's championship performances the way things are going.
Not confident about Saturday. Best hope is that Carr gets all 15 absolutely pulling for each other 100% and maybe out Fermanagh Fermanagh. Some weak enough links there and not sure the subs bench offers huge options. One bloke that needs to stand up and be counted once and for all is Nicholas Walsh. He's had an injury free run and with the background you would like to think he won't be fazed in a championship game, providing he keeps a lid on certain tendencies.
I would gladly take an 0-1 to 0-0 win right now
Is Pierson not fit to start? He was out at the start of the league but was back for the last two games?
Some background on some of the Cavan starters (from last years Irish News) is below:
1. JAMES REILLY (DRUNG)
The number one in every way. But for his brilliance Armagh would have won pulling up at Kingspan Breffni Park last June. The classy keeper was a real contender for man-of-the-match with brilliant point-blank saves from Ronan Clarke, Stephen Kernan and Stevie McDonnell (51st min) which kept Cavan from being cut adrift. Earlier in Cavan's NFL defeat to Monaghan, he brought off an astonishing save from Eoin Lennon to prevent further embarrassment.
At 6'2" and 15 stone, he appears as big as a house between the sticks, but is cat-like in getting down and dirty when called upon. Inspirational for his club in their JFC title triumph this year with his lengthy kick-outs laced with pin-point accuracy stand-out aspects of his contribution to the cause of both club and county.
4. MICHAEL HANNON (DRUMGOON)
Still the best man-marker by a distance in Cavan football. The Dublin City University ace has pace to burn and is adept at launching swift counter-attacks. A heavyweight at intermediate club level where his football nous stands out like a beacon in a bog. Diligent and dynamic.
5. JOHN McCUTCHEON (COOTEHILL)
Arguably the 'find' of the season for Donal Keogan. Impressed greatly in the '08 NFL season but, after being picked to line out against Armagh last June, had to cry off due to a shoulder injury. Turbo-charged, very consistent performer at midfield for his club and certainly one for Tommy Carr to tag.
11. RONAN FLANAGAN (CASTLERAHAN)
Emboldened by great pace, vision and foot passing skills. Famed for his probing passes and has the confidence and composure to nail down any spot in defence or attack on the Cavan senior team. A Sigerson Cup star with DCU, he's a born athlete who could well help guide his club to SFC honours over the next couple of years.
15. SEAN JOHNSTON (CAVAN GAELS)
Red-hot Johnston provided the stardust for Cavan seniors in 2008 and was virtually unplayable at club level. Hit the high notes in notching seven points from play against Antrim in the Ulster SFC, having earlier scored 0-4 off Cork's Graham Canty in the NFL. His injury against Ballinderry last month cost his club dearly.
Quote from: Caid on June 02, 2009, 10:58:04 PM
Is Pierson not fit to start? He was out at the start of the league but was back for the last two games?
Some background on some of the Cavan starters (from last years Irish News) is below:
1. JAMES REILLY (DRUNG)
The number one in every way. But for his brilliance Armagh would have won pulling up at Kingspan Breffni Park last June. The classy keeper was a real contender for man-of-the-match with brilliant point-blank saves from Ronan Clarke, Stephen Kernan and Stevie McDonnell (51st min) which kept Cavan from being cut adrift. Earlier in Cavan's NFL defeat to Monaghan, he brought off an astonishing save from Eoin Lennon to prevent further embarrassment.
At 6'2" and 15 stone, he appears as big as a house between the sticks, but is cat-like in getting down and dirty when called upon. Inspirational for his club in their JFC title triumph this year with his lengthy kick-outs laced with pin-point accuracy stand-out aspects of his contribution to the cause of both club and county.
4. MICHAEL HANNON (DRUMGOON)
Still the best man-marker by a distance in Cavan football. The Dublin City University ace has pace to burn and is adept at launching swift counter-attacks. A heavyweight at intermediate club level where his football nous stands out like a beacon in a bog. Diligent and dynamic.
5. JOHN McCUTCHEON (COOTEHILL)
Arguably the 'find' of the season for Donal Keogan. Impressed greatly in the '08 NFL season but, after being picked to line out against Armagh last June, had to cry off due to a shoulder injury. Turbo-charged, very consistent performer at midfield for his club and certainly one for Tommy Carr to tag.
11. RONAN FLANAGAN (CASTLERAHAN)
Emboldened by great pace, vision and foot passing skills. Famed for his probing passes and has the confidence and composure to nail down any spot in defence or attack on the Cavan senior team. A Sigerson Cup star with DCU, he's a born athlete who could well help guide his club to SFC honours over the next couple of years.
15. SEAN JOHNSTON (CAVAN GAELS)
Red-hot Johnston provided the stardust for Cavan seniors in 2008 and was virtually unplayable at club level. Hit the high notes in notching seven points from play against Antrim in the Ulster SFC, having earlier scored 0-4 off Cork's Graham Canty in the NFL. His injury against Ballinderry last month cost his club dearly.
Pierson is lurking on the bench, just back from injury. For me Ciaran Galligan in midfield has been our find of the season (even though he's been there before). He very athletic and hard working and covers a lot of ground. Ray Cullivan at FF is another potential star. I think we can win this game.
Pierson will start IMO.
Too good of a player to leave on the bench.
Is the legend that is Larry still part of the squad??
I'd almost concur there Myles.
I'm neutral but I'm not sure how Fermanagh can handle the favourites tag. Last year they were probably only favourites in one game - the Kildare game - and look what happened there.
They did look good in parts against Down - I'm not sure who'd have been favourites? However given how many times Fermanagh have beaten Down they had plenty of motivation.
Think Larry came on in the recent challenge Cavan won against Wexford and scored a goal. He scored 0-1 against Roscommon in the league, 0-4 against Offaly and 0-2 against Down. All but one of the seven points from play.
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 02, 2009, 11:17:54 PM
I'd almost concur there Myles.
I'm neutral but I'm not sure how Fermanagh can handle the favourites tag. Last year they were probably only favourites in one game - the Kildare game - and look what happened there.
They did look good in parts against Down - I'm not sure who'd have been favourites? However given how many times Fermanagh have beaten Down they had plenty of motivation.
Tommy that was after the disappointment after losing an Ulster we should have won against Armagh.
Very hard to raise their games after all the hype there was within the county.
I am worried about Saturday myself. Carson has the surprise element that last time and i am sure that will have been looked at by Cavan.
After re watching the Down game, Fermanagh were there for the taking at the start of the 2nd half.
Only that Down spurned a couple of chances when they were 2 up(and there management has not got a clue), Fermanagh could have been beat.
Cavan are a decent side and they have a good manager on the sideline. He will have studied the Fermanagh game plan.
The return of Murphy and Owens gives Fermanagh options of the bench. Goan should return to mark Johnston..
D Kelly should return to Whb back if McCluskey does not make it.
Young Keenan has now had a taste of the championship and i would be expecting alot more out of him this Saturday. Little cannot play that bad again( i hope)
It reminds me of when we played Antrim a couple of years ago on a wet Sunday in enniskillen in the first round.
We were favourites and just about managed to fall over the line. A similar result this Saturday would do me fine
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 02, 2009, 11:17:54 PM
I'd almost concur there Myles.
I'm neutral but I'm not sure how Fermanagh can handle the favourites tag. Last year they were probably only favourites in one game - the Kildare game - and look what happened there.
They did look good in parts against Down - I'm not sure who'd have been favourites? However given how many times Fermanagh have beaten Down they had plenty of motivation.
I'm not sure if Fermanagh were favourites against Kildare last year. After the demoralising Ulster final replay defeat, the stuffing was knocked out of the team and supporters alike. On the other hand, Kildare were on a high after a good run in the qualifiers.
Fermanagh have never beaten Cavan in the Ulster Championship so maybe the Breffni county should be installed as favourites for this game??
Ladbrokes betting: Fermanagh 8/13; Kildare 13/8; Draw 15/2.....
All-Ireland SF qualifiers (Round 3)
Fermanagh v Kildare, Croke Park, 2.0. Ref: A Mangan (Kerry)
*Live on RTE 2
Just 11 weeks after losing to Wicklow in what was a dismal performance, Kildare are back in Croke Park, having revived their season through the qualifiers.
It will have come as quite a relief to new manager, Kieran McGeeney (pictured) and his squad as it would have been disastrous had they crashed out of the qualifiers in the first round.
Now all has changed. If they were asked to nominate their choice of opponents for tomorrow's game they might well have chosen Fermanagh on the basis that since the counties have never previously met in the championship, there's no psychological advantage either way. As with Wexford, it's difficult to know how Fermanagh will react to their provincial final defeat. The circumstances were different, but nevertheless, Fermanagh invested huge effort in their bid to win a first Ulster title and have had just a week to recover after failing to make the breakthrough.
It may be too short for a full psychological recovery, which offers Kildare a great opportunity to reach the quarter-finals for the first time.
Last c'ship clash: None
Verdict: Kildare
Wasn't much in it that day. Not much in it this week either. Before this year's Championship Cavan, Down and Tyrone would probably be the only Ulster teams we haven't beaten in the Championship in the last 5/6 years??
League performance of six named Cavan forwards
Sean Brady (two appearances as half back, one appearance coming on as a sub, didn't start last 2 games, no scores in league)
Ronan Flanagan (CHB in three league games (including last two), one game at WHB, two games at WHF, one point from CHB against Offaly)
Cian Mackey (Two starts at WHF and two sub appearances, scored a point against Limerick & Tipp)
Martin Reilly (eleven points in six different games, seven from frees, didn't score against Down)
Ray Cullivan (WHF against Louth, single NFL point against Down at FF, CHF against Tipp and Longford)
Sean Johnston (scored in all seven league matches, 29 points, 12 from play)
I had thought the Cavan team was pretty settled as all the proposed line ups on Hoganstand were very similar. However, there seems to have been men togged out at various positions throughout the league - can anyone of the Cavan lads elaborate on the exploits of this Cullivan fella?
Quote from: Caid on June 03, 2009, 12:02:41 AM
League performance of six named Cavan forwards
Sean Brady (two appearances as half back, one appearance coming on as a sub, didn't start last 2 games, no scores in league)
Ronan Flanagan (CHB in three league games (including last two), one game at WHB, two games at WHF, one point from CHB against Offaly)
Cian Mackey (Two starts at WHF and two sub appearances, scored a point against Limerick & Tipp)
Martin Reilly (eleven points in six different games, seven from frees, didn't score against Down)
Ray Cullivan (WHF against Louth, single NFL point against Down at FF, CHF against Tipp and Longford)
Sean Johnston (scored in all seven league matches, 29 points, 12 from play)
I had thought the Cavan team was pretty settled as all the proposed line ups on Hoganstand were very similar. However, there seems to have been men togged out at various positions throughout the league - can anyone of the Cavan lads elaborate on the exploits of this Cullivan fella?
He is useless :P
This is a hard one to predict with Cavan being shite and plucky wee Fermanagh never fulfilling its potential. Home advantage might favour Cavan though, by 2 points.
Quote from: Caid on June 03, 2009, 12:02:41 AM
League performance of six named Cavan forwards
Sean Brady (two appearances as half back, one appearance coming on as a sub, didn't start last 2 games, no scores in league)
Ronan Flanagan (CHB in three league games (including last two), one game at WHB, two games at WHF, one point from CHB against Offaly)
Cian Mackey (Two starts at WHF and two sub appearances, scored a point against Limerick & Tipp)
Martin Reilly (eleven points in six different games, seven from frees, didn't score against Down)
Ray Cullivan (WHF against Louth, single NFL point against Down at FF, CHF against Tipp and Longford)
Sean Johnston (scored in all seven league matches, 29 points, 12 from play)
I had thought the Cavan team was pretty settled as all the proposed line ups on Hoganstand were very similar. However, there seems to have been men togged out at various positions throughout the league - can anyone of the Cavan lads elaborate on the exploits of this Cullivan fella?
As i said earlier I highly rate cullivan. He is probably a midfielder by trade as he has a tremendous leap and catch but is maybe a bit small. Suffered a cruciate injury last yr so missed everything then. Has really bulked up since underage. Ballyhaiseman will tell you more as he is a fellow club man.
Cavan are actually lined up with 4 midfielders in the team. Cullivan at FF will most likely roam in and out of FF to midfield depending on how things go. Sean Brady is a midfielder by trade ar whf. Walsh will contest everything and Galligan will run all day. I think Cavan will get lots of primary possesion but it is what they do with it that is important and that is what I am uncertain about.
Pierson will not start as martin Reillys form has been very good of late although I think he is a bit light to deal with Fermanaghs pack defence.
Quote from: Orior on June 03, 2009, 08:30:30 AM
This is a hard one to predict with Cavan being shite and plucky wee Fermanagh never fulfilling its potential. Home advantage might favour Cavan though, by 2 points.
'plucky wee Fermanagh'.............the 3 words that rile a lot of us Fermanagh folk. We are a lot better than that and need to start believing it, it seems like Malachy is starting to change mindsets 8)
Can't wait for Saturday. Heading to Cavan around 1ish for a feed and a few settlers. Here would be my preferred starting 15..............
Breen (Done nothing wrong against Down so deserves to keep his place. He can also tend to vary his kickouts more than Gallagher but both are top drawer keepers)
Bogue (A real no nonsense defender. Not great in possession but more often than not he will nullify his opponent. Goan will be pushing for a start though)
Lyons (He helped us through a sticky patch against Down and for that alone he has earned another start imo)
Sherry (I feel that Hughie Brady may miss out here. Sherry is a real all action player and is less prone to giving away silly frees)
Kelly (A real steady eddy player that every team needs. Good for a score as well)
Clucker (One of the top centre halfs in the country. Great in possession and a real playmaker for us. Tough one for Malachy though as McDermott played well last time out. Kelly may be the unlucky one)
Tommy Mc (as the yanks would say, a real no brainer! Top class player)
McGrath (He wasn't great against Down but kept Gordan relatively quiet. Hopefully he will come into form on Saturday)
Sherry (Should be an automatic pick for every game but his inconsistancy is a worry. Hopefully he can follow up on a good performance last time out)
C McElroy (My MOM against Down. We all know what we will get from Ciaran, hard work, scavenging for breaking ball and protecting the defence)
Keenan (Another hard worker for us. Hopefully he can start to get a few scores as he has the ability. Seems to have lost a yard of pace though)
Little (A poor game last time but expecting a very big performance from Mark against Cavan)
Keenan (He has real potential. A fully fit Ciaran O'Reilly would keep him out though, because of his experience)
Carson (Blobby got a lot of praise for his second half against Down. He is level headed enough to igonre that though. Hopefully he will give us the same focal point again)
Maguire (Nevr stops running. A very talented player who could torment Cavan if he gets good service)
Not many changes expected to the starting 15 but the strength of our bench will have improved with the return to fitness of a few important players. Owens, O'Reilly, Kelly/McDermott, Goan, Foy, Womble and Brady can all aid the cause if needed. I'm expecting a real fast start from Cavan but Fermanagh to edge through, only just!
'Plucky wee Fermanagh' are three better words than 'Cavan are shite' though. :-[
Mind you, I'm not fussed by peoples' perceptions and actually prefer people thinking that, I believe Cavan will be much better than people expect on Saturday. Our league performances against Down and Roscommon, where there was actually something at stake, is a better barometer of where we are at I think. We've used the league to get a reasonably settled side and arrive in championship knowing who our best options for key positions are, have a manager worthy of the description on the line and have a small sprinkling of excellent players who through a combination of minor unachievement and the Keogan wilderness years, are largely unknown on the national stage.
Cavan certainly won't trouble any of the major powers of the game but will be more than capable of beating Fermanagh by a point or two at home. A lot of this depends on Johnston being somewhere near fit and how a jittery defence, prone to silly fouling in the past, gets on, but I'm confident for some reason.
Quote from: cavanmaniac on June 03, 2009, 11:52:16 AM
We've used the league to get a reasonably settled side and arrive in championship knowing who our best options for key positions are, have a manager worthy of the description on the line and have a small sprinkling of excellent players who through a combination of minor unachievement and the Keogan wilderness years, are largely unknown on the national stage.
Time will tell about this statement-I know he has managed the Dubs but I would be slightly worried about TC and his selectors when quick moves have to be made along the line that can win a game for ya.Eamon Coleman was great at it and all the great present day managers are great at it.Something that can change the impetus in a game from one team to the other.We all know Malachy O Rourke will be a shrewd man along the line,I just hope TC and Co are one step ahead of him.
On the team thats been named,Im very surprised that Fannin isnt starting.Whether its Corner back or Wing back,he should definitely be playing
IMO.
Havent seen much of Sean Brady lately,We all know he has lots of talent,I just hope he can suprise a few people and produce a performance that has been a while coming.
Yeah he has his doubters and rightly so after failing to win even a Leinster with Dublin in his time there, but the comment was more to highlight how desperate the situation was with Keogan by comparison. You never know either, maybe TC has matured as a manager since then. I thought he had Roscommon doing reasonably until it unravelled somewhat. He can't take us any further backwards anyway, that's the main thing.
Quote from: boojangles on June 03, 2009, 05:48:46 PM
Quote from: cavanmaniac on June 03, 2009, 11:52:16 AM
We've used the league to get a reasonably settled side and arrive in championship knowing who our best options for key positions are, have a manager worthy of the description on the line and have a small sprinkling of excellent players who through a combination of minor unachievement and the Keogan wilderness years, are largely unknown on the national stage.
Time will tell about this statement-I know he has managed the Dubs but I would be slightly worried about TC and his selectors when quick moves have to be made along the line that can win a game for ya.Eamon Coleman was great at it and all the great present day managers are great at it.Something that can change the impetus in a game from one team to the other.We all know Malachy O Rourke will be a shrewd man along the line,I just hope TC and Co are one step ahead of him.
On the team thats been named,Im very surprised that Fannin isnt starting.Whether its Corner back or Wing back,he should definitely be playing
IMO.
Havent seen much of Sean Brady lately,We all know he has lots of talent,I just hope he can suprise a few people and produce a performance that has been a while coming.
He always seems to be carrying a "injury" until it gets to this time of year.
Fermanagh SWOT analysis for Saturday
Strengths
1. The backs: Great man markers, excellent executers of the blanket defence, and backs that know how to tackle and, importantly, concede few frees (which Cavan tend to rely on for scores)
2. The manager: A proven master tactician with a strong bench (Murphy, Owens, Goan, Sherry, Kelly, Foy etc) to call upon if the system needs changed
3. The hunger: No team wants to win Ulster more. Full stop
4. Goals: Despite what Joe Brolly says about all Fermanagh's goals being flukes, we averaged a goal a game in the league and Cavan only scored in one game (two goals on the opening day). With there being potential chinks in the Cavan back line I fancy Fermanagh to get a goal and this to be the difference between the teams
5. Ability to win tight games
Weaknesses
1. Reliable freetaker: Lets not kid ourselves - all of Blobby's frees the last day were scoreable. The first 35 yard free is crucial. The fans will be wondering if it will go over; as will the kicker. This is still a major concern
2. Scoring from distance: Key to winning any Ulster Championship match given the systems currently employed is kicking points from around 35 metres. Fermanagh couldn't do this last year. We beat Down partly because McElroy and Sherry, twice, hit long range scores early on. Will these type of kicks go over on Saturday?
3. Strength in depth: Strange that I have this as a weakness but many of the players that played well the last day, and so will probably keep their place, often don't have two good days in a row. Thus the decision to stick with the same team (if this is what O'Rourke does) may not actually be the best decision
4. Absentees: Barry Owens is still not fit, Clucker is half-fit and hasn't played much gaelic, murphy is just back from Australia, McCabe is unavailable, Little has not been playing club football. These are class players whose absence will have an impact on a small county like Fermanagh
Opportunities
1. The Cavan back line seems to be quite small and there are some reports of Sheridan being vulnerable at FB. If things aren't going well the option to throw on Owens, Murphy or McBarron (all six foot plus) in the FF line and bomb in high balls could be valuable
2. Lack of Cavan confidence: Have has limited success in recent years and something like five managers in six years. The comments coming from the Panel in recent days, namely from Carr, Johnston and Larry, have been fairly downbeat (although Ronan Flanagan was significantly more bullish about Cavan's prospects)
3. Cavan's overreliance on Johnson and Pierson: In the crunch league games against Roscommon and Down 50% of Cavan's scores were from Johnson (albeit only two points in each game were from frees). Malachy knows "jelly's" game from his time at Cavan Gaels. If Johnston is well marked (we have at least 3/4 men who could do a job) and Pierson has limited impact then were are Cavan's scores going to come from; and what is their plan B going to be?
Threats
1. Seanie Johnston
2. Midfield: Cavan have plenty of options at midfield and possess the ability to move men into the middle if they are not winning much ball. Nicholas Walsh also has a big display in him. (Although its worth noting that against Down Dan Gordon won a lot of clean ball in the first half. In the second half kick outs were directed away from Gordon and the ball broken. Rarely do Fermanagh not win the majority of breaks)
3. Home advantage to Cavan
4. History: Fermanagh has never beat Cavan but then there were many counties like this until recent years
Note: Copyright on the use of SWOT analysis for GAA matches hereby belongs to Caid. Any subsequent use of SWOT analysis in the Gaelic Life, or indeed any similar publication, shall result in Caid receiving (1) A Gaelic Life hoodie (as he has no chance of winning the fantasy competition); and (2) A kiss for one of his mates from the McGourty (McDorty?) girl that writes "hunk of the week"
Quote from: Caid on June 03, 2009, 10:43:21 PM
Fermanagh SWOT analysis for Saturday
Strengths
1. The backs: Great man markers, excellent executers of the blanket defence, and backs that know how to tackle and, importantly, concede few frees (which Cavan tend to rely on for scores)
2. The manager: A proven master tactician with a strong bench (Murphy, Owens, Goan, Sherry, Kelly, Foy etc) to call upon if the system needs changed
3. The hunger: No team wants to win Ulster more. Full stop
4. Goals: Despite what Joe Brolly says about all Fermanagh's goals being flukes, we averaged a goal a game in the league and Cavan only scored in one game (two goals on the opening day). With there being potential chinks in the Cavan back line I fancy Fermanagh to get a goal and this to be the difference between the teams
5. Ability to win tight games
Weaknesses
1. Reliable freetaker: Lets not kid ourselves - all of Blobby's frees the last day were scoreable. The first 35 yard free is crucial. The fans will be wondering if it will go over; as will the kicker. This is still a major concern
2. Scoring from distance: Key to winning any Ulster Championship match given the systems currently employed is kicking points from around 35 metres. Fermanagh couldn't do this last year. We beat Down partly because McElroy and Sherry, twice, hit long range scores early on. Will these type of kicks go over on Saturday?
3. Strength in depth: Strange that I have this as a weakness but many of the players that played well the last day, and so will probably keep their place, often don't have two good days in a row. Thus the decision to stick with the same team (if this is what O'Rourke does) may not actually be the best decision
4. Absentees: Barry Owens is still not fit, Clucker is half-fit and hasn't played much gaelic, murphy is just back from Australia, McCabe is unavailable, Little has not been playing club football. These are class players whose absence will have an impact on a small county like Fermanagh
Opportunities
1. The Cavan back line seems to be quite small and there are some reports of Sheridan being vulnerable at FB. If things aren't going well the option to throw on Owens, Murphy or McBarron (all six foot plus) in the FF line and bomb in high balls could be valuable
2. Lack of Cavan confidence: Have has limited success in recent years and something like five managers in six years. The comments coming from the Panel in recent days, namely from Carr, Johnston and Larry, have been fairly downbeat (although Ronan Flanagan was significantly more bullish about Cavan's prospects)
3. Cavan's overreliance on Johnson and Pierson: In the crunch league games against Roscommon and Down 50% of Cavan's scores were from Johnson (albeit only two points in each game were from frees). Malachy knows "jelly's" game from his time at Cavan Gaels. If Johnston is well marked (we have at least 3/4 men who could do a job) and Pierson has limited impact then were are Cavan's scores going to come from; and what is their plan B going to be?
Threats
1. Seanie Johnston
2. Midfield: Cavan have plenty of options at midfield and possess the ability to move men into the middle if they are not winning much ball. Nicholas Walsh also has a big display in him. (Although its worth noting that against Down Dan Gordon won a lot of clean ball in the first half. In the second half kick outs were directed away from Gordon and the ball broken. Rarely do Fermanagh not win the majority of breaks)
3. Home advantage to Cavan
4. History: Fermanagh has never beat Cavan but then there were many counties like this until recent years
Note: Copyright on the use of SWOT analysis for GAA matches hereby belongs to Caid. Any subsequent use of SWOT analysis in the Gaelic Life, or indeed any similar publication, shall result in Caid receiving (1) A Gaelic Life hoodie (as he has no chance of winning the fantasy competition); and (2) A kiss for one of his mates from the McGourty (McDorty?) girl that writes "hunk of the week"
Sounds like you are trying to convince yourself Caid. ;D
Good work again Caid. I must say your stats have been very impressive this week. You wouldn't be any chance looking for a job on the Sunday Game or a weekly column in the Gaelic Life or Irish News??
QuoteSome weak enough links there and not sure the subs bench offers huge options.
I disagree. Larry, Jason, Eddie, Pierson can all come on and get scores. Fannin's in super form and can come into the defence, as can Martin Cahill who I don't think has ever been cleaned out for Cavan and is consistently brilliant for Denn.
Mulvey is flying by all accounts and, as we saw in his cameo against Antrim last year, he has a big 15-20 minute burst in him. Also, Givney proved in Newry that he can do a great job if introduced at midfield or the edge of the square.
I think the panel is very strong.
Of the starting team, only James Reilly is over 26 and the majority are 24 or under - this is a team going places.
If this dry weather keeps up, Mackey, Johnston, Flanagan, Martin Reilly and Co will play havoc. Walsh and Galligan will break even which means that so long as our defence holds up, we'll be ok.
The key players in my opinion are Keating and Podge Reilly - if they hold their own, we'll win by three or four points in my opinion.
Breffni Park is a massive pitch and will suit Cavan more than Fermanagh.
Hollow Man's prediction: Cullivan to score a goal (possibly fisted), Martin Reilly to kick five or six points from frees and play and Cavan to beat Fermanagh by three/four points.
What age is Brides?
Quote from: cavan4ever on June 04, 2009, 03:19:17 PM
What age is Brides?
Brides is 28 sometime this year.He was Under-21 in 2002.
I agree with some of what Hollow says,We seem to have a strong bench and lots of options if things are not working,although I wouldnt take anything for granted that just because we have a relatively young team necessarily means that we are going places.We have fallen for that trick before.I cant see us going too far with a novice Full-Back and Centre-Back and 2 unproven Midfielders which is basically what Cavan have at the moment.
By reading alot of stuff over the last while from this Board and from local newspapers,I think alot of us again are expecting too much from our Senior team.We may well beat Fermanagh but by reading the Celt yesterday one would feel like we had a team of world beaters and Fermanagh are only a bunch of hard-working scrappers. Surely an insult and I hope Malachy O Rourke or any Fermanagh players werent reading it.
Can you post the article Boojangles, can't find it on the site?
Cavan do ahve the more talenetd players I think, just Fermanagh seem to get more out of their resources. In saying that, all they've done is reach an Ulster final, nothing more yet.
The closer we get to the match the better chance I feel Cavan have. Must be the heart ruling the head!
Quote from: Drung on June 04, 2009, 07:02:20 PM
Can you post the article Boojangles, can't find it on the site?
Cavan do ahve the more talenetd players I think, just Fermanagh seem to get more out of their resources. In saying that, all they've done is reach an Ulster final, nothing more yet.
The closer we get to the match the better chance I feel Cavan have. Must be the heart ruling the head!
This argument done the rounds ahead of the Down game but how do people think Cavan have a lot more talented players than Fermanagh? Who are these players and what exactly have they won or done outside of Cavan?
Quote from: ExiledGael on June 04, 2009, 07:55:10 PM
Quote from: Drung on June 04, 2009, 07:02:20 PM
Can you post the article Boojangles, can't find it on the site?
Cavan do ahve the more talenetd players I think, just Fermanagh seem to get more out of their resources. In saying that, all they've done is reach an Ulster final, nothing more yet.
The closer we get to the match the better chance I feel Cavan have. Must be the heart ruling the head!
This argument done the rounds ahead of the Down game but how do people think Cavan have a lot more talented players than Fermanagh? Who are these players and what exactly have they won or done outside of Cavan?
Seanie Johnston --- Think everyone know about his talents
Ronan Flanagan - Brillant Footballer
James Reilly - one of the best around
Nobody else has done anything consistent in a cavan jersey at senior level to be mentioned as more talented than anything fermanagh have.
Quote from: cavan4ever on June 04, 2009, 08:03:49 PM
Quote from: ExiledGael on June 04, 2009, 07:55:10 PM
Quote from: Drung on June 04, 2009, 07:02:20 PM
Can you post the article Boojangles, can't find it on the site?
Cavan do ahve the more talenetd players I think, just Fermanagh seem to get more out of their resources. In saying that, all they've done is reach an Ulster final, nothing more yet.
The closer we get to the match the better chance I feel Cavan have. Must be the heart ruling the head!
This argument done the rounds ahead of the Down game but how do people think Cavan have a lot more talented players than Fermanagh? Who are these players and what exactly have they won or done outside of Cavan?
Seanie Johnston --- Think everyone know about his talents
Ronan Flanagan - Brillant Footballer
James Reilly - open of the best around
Nobody else has done anything consistent in a cavan jersey at senior level to be mentioned as more talented than anything fermanagh have.
Was going to suggest something similar but thought it would appear ignorant. Don't see a lot of Cavan football but Fermanagh have a couple of All-Stars, another handful of All-Star nominees, at least a half dozen or so McRory Cup winners and another few Sigerson Cup winners. We're every bit as talented as Cavan, probably more so.
In saying that we'd take your hand off for a forward of the calibre of Seanie Johnston.
Fermanagh team that was announced to play Cavan for whats its worth.
Malachy follows the usual routine of announcing the team that started against Down.
There will be at least one change. I cannot see Goan not starting. We need him to marshall Johnston.
Murphy has been included on the subs.
1 Chris Breen
2 Niall Bogue
3 Shane Lyons
4 Hugh Brady
5 Ryan McCluskey
6 Shane McDermott
7 Tommy McElroy
8 Martin McGrath
9 James Sherry
10 Ryan Keenan
11 Ciaran McElroy
12 Mark Little
13 Daryl Keenan
14 Ryan Carson
15 Eamon Maguire
Quote from: ExiledGael on June 04, 2009, 08:26:04 PM
Quote from: cavan4ever on June 04, 2009, 08:03:49 PM
Quote from: ExiledGael on June 04, 2009, 07:55:10 PM
Quote from: Drung on June 04, 2009, 07:02:20 PM
Can you post the article Boojangles, can't find it on the site?
Cavan do ahve the more talenetd players I think, just Fermanagh seem to get more out of their resources. In saying that, all they've done is reach an Ulster final, nothing more yet.
The closer we get to the match the better chance I feel Cavan have. Must be the heart ruling the head!
This argument done the rounds ahead of the Down game but how do people think Cavan have a lot more talented players than Fermanagh? Who are these players and what exactly have they won or done outside of Cavan?
Seanie Johnston --- Think everyone know about his talents
Ronan Flanagan - Brillant Footballer
James Reilly - open of the best around
Nobody else has done anything consistent in a cavan jersey at senior level to be mentioned as more talented than anything fermanagh have.
Was going to suggest something similar but thought it would appear ignorant. Don't see a lot of Cavan football but Fermanagh have a couple of All-Stars, another handful of All-Star nominees, at least a half dozen or so McRory Cup winners and another few Sigerson Cup winners. We're every bit as talented as Cavan, probably more so.
In saying that we'd take your hand off for a forward of the calibre of Seanie Johnston.
Cavan have all star nominees,Sigerson cup winners, All Ireland College Freshers winners ,All Ireland Vocational schools winners and more importantly Ulster Championship medal winners ;)
None of that will make any difference on saturday.
No sensible Cavan person could have high expectations of the team this year, that's a disappointing mild form of lunacy to hear about - as Tommy Carr has been saying he was brought in to build something over three years with a bunch of players mostly all under 24 so how anyone could know that and think we're in for a great summer is beyond me.
That said I do expect us to be a lot better against Fermanagh than the usual lazy analaysis suggests - it's mostly of the lets-look-at-their-league-form-and-make-a-blanket-assessment type as far as I can see. That analysis has a place but it only shows part of the picture IMO, Cavan are a good deal better than people think (which is not to say we're great, just that everyone seems to think we're total shite, and we're not) and I think we're just about good enough to beat Fermanagh at home in our first year under a new manager which always provides a trampoline effect.
Fermanagh posters have made very convincing and well made arguments to the contrary of course and although I think the Breffni boys will sneak it by a point or two, best of luck to both teams, I hope it's a good match and may the best team win.
Quote from: Drung on June 04, 2009, 07:02:20 PM
Can you post the article Boojangles, can't find it on the site?
Just open up the 2 page spread on the game and read End to End. In it is refers to Cavan as "" Pound for Pound the better footballers"" while Fermanagh "" can drag better footballing teams to their level"". This is comparing a team who hasnt been in an Ulster Final since 2001 with a team who has played in an Ulster Final and 2 All-Ireland Semi Finals in the last 5 years.
If I was Malachy O Rourke Id be ramming that down their players throats.
Local news media are always biased towards teams in their catchment area. People don't read them for objective analysis. Anyone who takes umbrage at their predictions etc either needs their head examined or is easily offended. I can't imagine that Mickey Harte got too bothered last September at The Kerryman's or Radio Kerry's AIF predictions.
Surely Peter Sherry will get the nod as he looked sharp when coming on v Down and offered an attacking option also Little looked inept last day so would be good to see a fresher forward on in his place who could be more of a threat, dunno which one for sure mind you but he was very poor last day out
Quote from: cornafean on June 05, 2009, 01:12:12 PM
Local news media are always biased towards teams in their catchment area. People don't read them for objective analysis. Anyone who takes umbrage at their predictions etc either needs their head examined or is easily offended. I can't imagine that Mickey Harte got too bothered last September at The Kerryman's or Radio Kerry's AIF predictions.
But you can bet Mickey Harte used them for motivational purpopses.
Quote from: boojangles on June 05, 2009, 04:00:18 PM
Quote from: cornafean on June 05, 2009, 01:12:12 PM
Local news media are always biased towards teams in their catchment area. People don't read them for objective analysis. Anyone who takes umbrage at their predictions etc either needs their head examined or is easily offended. I can't imagine that Mickey Harte got too bothered last September at The Kerryman's or Radio Kerry's AIF predictions.
But you can bet Mickey Harte used them for motivational purpopses.
I would be really surprised if Mickey has to rely on rubbish from the likes of Weeshie Fogarty for motivational material.
Quote from: cornafean on June 05, 2009, 04:06:38 PM
Quote from: boojangles on June 05, 2009, 04:00:18 PM
Quote from: cornafean on June 05, 2009, 01:12:12 PM
Local news media are always biased towards teams in their catchment area. People don't read them for objective analysis. Anyone who takes umbrage at their predictions etc either needs their head examined or is easily offended. I can't imagine that Mickey Harte got too bothered last September at The Kerryman's or Radio Kerry's AIF predictions.
But you can bet Mickey Harte used them for motivational purpopses.
I would be really surprised if Mickey has to rely on rubbish from the likes of Weeshie Fogarty for motivational material.
read his book, one of the things he does most is quote from various scources to motivate.
Quote from: cavanmaniac on June 05, 2009, 11:00:35 AM
No sensible Cavan person could have high expectations of the team this year, that's a disappointing mild form of lunacy to hear about - as Tommy Carr has been saying he was brought in to build something over three years with a bunch of players mostly all under 24 so how anyone could know that and think we're in for a great summer is beyond me.
That said I do expect us to be a lot better against Fermanagh than the usual lazy analaysis suggests - it's mostly of the lets-look-at-their-league-form-and-make-a-blanket-assessment type as far as I can see. That analysis has a place but it only shows part of the picture IMO, Cavan are a good deal better than people think (which is not to say we're great, just that everyone seems to think we're total shite, and we're not) and I think we're just about good enough to beat Fermanagh at home in our first year under a new manager which always provides a trampoline effect.
Fermanagh posters have made very convincing and well made arguments to the contrary of course and although I think the Breffni boys will sneak it by a point or two, best of luck to both teams, I hope it's a good match and may the best team win.
like it or not, what else do you go by????
unfortunately Fermanaghs workrate and ability to score from long range combined with our inexperience at CHB will see them through.
the arguement for home advantage is futile, our visitors will have no problem coming to breffni.
sorry to say, but i think our midfield will get ate alive
Quote from: the salmon of knowledge on June 05, 2009, 04:19:06 PM
Quote from: cavanmaniac on June 05, 2009, 11:00:35 AM
No sensible Cavan person could have high expectations of the team this year, that's a disappointing mild form of lunacy to hear about - as Tommy Carr has been saying he was brought in to build something over three years with a bunch of players mostly all under 24 so how anyone could know that and think we're in for a great summer is beyond me.
That said I do expect us to be a lot better against Fermanagh than the usual lazy analaysis suggests - it's mostly of the lets-look-at-their-league-form-and-make-a-blanket-assessment type as far as I can see. That analysis has a place but it only shows part of the picture IMO, Cavan are a good deal better than people think (which is not to say we're great, just that everyone seems to think we're total shite, and we're not) and I think we're just about good enough to beat Fermanagh at home in our first year under a new manager which always provides a trampoline effect.
Fermanagh posters have made very convincing and well made arguments to the contrary of course and although I think the Breffni boys will sneak it by a point or two, best of luck to both teams, I hope it's a good match and may the best team win.
like it or not, what else do you go by????
unfortunately Fermanaghs workrate and ability to score from long range combined with our inexperience at CHB will see them through.
the arguement for home advantage is futile, our visitors will have no problem coming to breffni.
sorry to say, but i think our midfield will get ate alive
[/quote
Dont think they have a great ability to score from long range but still think they will win. If Midfield gets ate alive as you say , i dont have faith in our centre back to stop them coming threw the middle. Cavan need every player to perform and hopefully anyone not up to it wont be left on to long.
Quote from: the salmon of knowledge on June 05, 2009, 04:13:41 PM
Quote from: cornafean on June 05, 2009, 04:06:38 PM
Quote from: boojangles on June 05, 2009, 04:00:18 PM
Quote from: cornafean on June 05, 2009, 01:12:12 PM
Local news media are always biased towards teams in their catchment area. People don't read them for objective analysis. Anyone who takes umbrage at their predictions etc either needs their head examined or is easily offended. I can't imagine that Mickey Harte got too bothered last September at The Kerryman's or Radio Kerry's AIF predictions.
But you can bet Mickey Harte used them for motivational purpopses.
I would be really surprised if Mickey has to rely on rubbish from the likes of Weeshie Fogarty for motivational material.
read his book, one of the things he does most is quote from various scources to motivate.
That's exactly my point. He hardly has to waste his time wading through biased local paper or local radio pulp to motivate his players.
I dunno if you read his book Kicking down Heavens Door,but he quotes from a lot of sources.And any little thing to give him an edge he will use.Doesnt matter if its local,national or Kerry media.Once it works is all that matters.
Quote from: the salmon of knowledge on June 05, 2009, 04:19:06 PM
Quote from: cavanmaniac on June 05, 2009, 11:00:35 AM
That said I do expect us to be a lot better against Fermanagh than the usual lazy analaysis suggests - it's mostly of the lets-look-at-their-league-form-and-make-a-blanket-assessment type as far as I can see. That analysis has a place but...
like it or not, what else do you go by????
unfortunately Fermanaghs workrate and ability to score from long range combined with our inexperience at CHB will see them through.
the arguement for home advantage is futile, our visitors will have no problem coming to breffni.
sorry to say, but i think our midfield will get ate alive
Yes SOK as I said it has a place alright, but it's lazy to use it as your
only basis as some commentators do. It's too easy to look at the bottom line all the time, e.g. Cavan struggled in Division 3 and have been poor in championship in recent years, ergo, they are shite. Doesn't ring wholly true when you consider that to my mind at least, we were only shadowboxing in the league as TC only bought into it in patches, we're backboned by a very talented and maturing (if unsuccessful) minor side of recent years and that despite the managerial disasater area that was Keogan, our championship performances were creditable to a degree - v Down twice, v Armagh and v Kildare who only won with a last minute goal and would go on to contest the sharp end of the championship that year. So we should be much better under a 'proper' manager. Not very many people try to take a different take on things, so you tend to get very samey analysis. That said, it'll do us no harm at all to be written off I suppose so shouldn't complain too much!
That's just my tuppence worth on it anyways.
Quote
So we should be much better under a 'proper' manager
What are Tommy Carr's credentials as a manager?
Quoteunfortunately Fermanaghs workrate and ability to score from long range combined with our inexperience at CHB will see them through
Where are you getting this from? Workrate - yes. Long range scoring??? Have you ever seen Fermanagh play before?
Take out the frees that Ryan Carson got the last day and they have had serious trouble with scoring under O'Rourke.
Quote from: Drung on June 05, 2009, 09:50:23 PM
Quoteunfortunately Fermanaghs workrate and ability to score from long range combined with our inexperience at CHB will see them through
Where are you getting this from? Workrate - yes. Long range scoring??? Have you ever seen Fermanagh play before?
Take out the frees that Ryan Carson got the last day and they have had serious trouble with scoring under O'Rourke.
The inability to score from distance seriously hindered Fermanagh last year, but it is something the team has worked hard on over the winter. If you watch a replay of the first half of the Down match we'll see a number of points were taken from distance by the Fermanagh forwards.
I'm not saying we're brilliant at long distance scoring, but things are improving.
Quote from: Drung on June 05, 2009, 09:50:23 PM
Quoteunfortunately Fermanaghs workrate and ability to score from long range combined with our inexperience at CHB will see them through
Where are you getting this from? Workrate - yes. Long range scoring??? Have you ever seen Fermanagh play before?
Take out the frees that Ryan Carson got the last day and they have had serious trouble with scoring under O'Rourke.
Drung, I'm sure TSOK will give you an answer in his own time but my guess is he's seen Fermanagh play before. Most importantly, I'd say he's seen them play in the match that is most relevant to tomorrow's fixture i.e. the game against Down when they kicked a few fairly handy points from distance. Did you see that one yourself?
I've nothing of note to add to the debate about tomorrow being far too long removed from the scene. Doesn't matter though, the championship still brings that tingle and tension. the heart lies with Cavan and I think we can give it a right rattle. However, the head would lead me to worry. This may come down to the team that can score one goal and our lads haven't had huge luck on that front lately. Our full back line combined with Fermanagh's new number 14 would make me worry a bit. From speaking to some Fermanagh friends I fear this bloke might not be a one day wonder, more Cavan's version of Trevor Crowe i.e. Fermanagh have been trying for two or three years to talk him into getting involved in the County panel and now he's landed.
High time for Nicholas Walsh to deliver, big time, tomorrow. He's had a reasonable injury free run for a change and championship should bring the best out in him. One point win would be marvellous, Gunner to come back and maybe Cahill, Lyng, Pierson and Jayo a bit further on in the fitness front.
Best of luck to all
Cavan men, any ideas for parking for today??
Would you be better taking the old road into Cavan??
C'mon Cavan. Put the dreary Fermanagh folk back where they belong: amongst the dreary steeples applauding peelers.
Quote from: FermGael on June 06, 2009, 12:10:52 AM
Cavan men, any ideas for parking for today??
Would you be better taking the old road into Cavan??
If i were coming up the bypass id continue to the roundabout and park in one of the retail parks or along the main road.
Quote from: ONeill on June 06, 2009, 12:49:11 AM
C'mon Cavan. Put the dreary Fermanagh folk back where they belong: amongst the dreary steeples applauding peelers.
Good lad O'Neill. Was there not another dreary county attached to that quotation as well?? ;)
Lads, could anoyone tell me where i can get the game live on the internet? Im not at home but would love to see the game.
Quote from: BigMac on June 06, 2009, 12:28:42 PM
Lads, could anoyone tell me where i can get the game live on the internet? Im not at home but would love to see the game.
RTE.ie has it if you are in Ireland
Can see a small crowd turning up with this shitty weather. If i had a hape of money id be putting it on Fermanagh now.
Quote from: Caid on June 05, 2009, 07:28:29 PM
Quote
So we should be much better under a 'proper' manager
What are Tommy Carr's credentials as a manager?
He has managed a team to the All-Ireland Q-Finals,more than Mr O Rourke has done.I know that the Gaels lads spoke very highly off him when he was in Cavan but to hear a term describing him as a 'Master Tactician" mite be pushing it a bit.He will be in time a great manager but He is no Mickey Harte-yet.
Quote from: BigMac on June 06, 2009, 12:28:42 PM
Lads, could anoyone tell me where i can get the game live on the internet? Im not at home but would love to see the game.
It will be on www.justin.tv/sportstime from 5.15pm
Cavan are going all american with their mascot!! :D
Did anyone catch the name of yer man who was singing the national anthem? Matthew something?
Any one else think the bbc camera angles are poor
Quote from: downgirl on June 06, 2009, 05:37:19 PM
Did anyone catch the name of yer man who was singing the national anthem? Matthew something?
Broderick
Quote from: Stalin on June 06, 2009, 05:47:05 PM
Quote from: downgirl on June 06, 2009, 05:37:19 PM
Did anyone catch the name of yer man who was singing the national anthem? Matthew something?
Broderick
Kelly
Quote from: gerry on June 06, 2009, 05:44:02 PM
Any one else think the bbc camera angles are poor
Have to agree, Gerry, some of the camera angles are shite. Surely by now the BBC should understand what the best angle to watch a match is !
Jasus its a poor game with alot of silly mistakes by both teams.
Quote from: gerry on June 06, 2009, 05:44:02 PM
Any one else think the bbc camera angles are poor
Yes and then they play replays when the match is still going on!!
Just finished work and called into a pub in enniskillen to watch it. There must be nothing worst than listening to drunk people shouting at the tv that know feck all about gaa.
A 4-year ban should be slapped on Fermanagh.
Can anyone answer a lady friend of the Fox asking what is with the two old boys McHugh and Burns and all the hair gel? Any suggestions?
Good so see the second half starting of where the first half finished with poor footie
Jesus wept it's awful stuff! 2 poor teams playing a poor brand of football. Would prefer both teams to be out in fairness.
Fermanagh man pushed in the chest and down holding his face, tremendous stuff.
Quote from: screenexile on June 06, 2009, 06:47:24 PM
Jesus wept it's awful stuff! 2 poor teams playing a poor brand of football. Would prefer both teams to be out in fairness.
agreed but cavan won't care
Well done Cavan.
is it over? whats the final score
Quote from: milltown row on June 06, 2009, 07:03:16 PM
is it over? whats the final score
Cavan 0-13 Fermanagh 1-9 FT
Poor enough game, but from a Donegal point of view happy to see Cavan hold on, as Fermanagh always give us bother. I know we have to beat Antrim next week but i think we look good for an Ulster final spot at this stage.
Quote from: Donegal Danny on June 06, 2009, 07:19:23 PM
Poor enough game, but from a Donegal point of view happy to see Cavan hold on, as Fermanagh always give us bother. I know we have to beat Antrim next week but i think we look good for an Ulster final spot at this stage.
amazingly it'll be a repeat of the 1998 final then (the last time, neither Tyrone nor Armagh won her) ;)
Quote from: Minder on June 06, 2009, 06:49:09 PM
Fermanagh man pushed in the chest and down holding his face, tremendous stuff.
a ballinascreen man no less :D typical
has to be admitted that the slightly better of two poor teams came out on the right side of the result
neither team will win anything, this season... or next
Thank god that is over. Bloody freezing.
Pleased that we held on and managed to shut things down. Had visions of the Kildare game last year, one ahead and the tannoy tell stewards to go to end of match positions.
Cian Mackey looked to badly shook azt the end. Is it now the policy that game goes on when players are been treated on the field? If so, it is good to see.
Seanie Johnson is class though would get on any team in Ireland. Only bright spot of the game.
Well done Cavan. Super win, should give the whole county a boost.
Here's a link to a brief report and video of Tommy Carr's reaction
http://www.anglocelt.ie/sport/matchreports/articles/2009/06/06/40388-cavan-tear-up-the-script/
right result, always good to see fermanagh knocked out - v bad side
The losing of this game was where Fermanagh played their CHF. They needed to go at this game and didn't do it. They gave Cavan the extra man in defense which gave less space to fermanagh's already inaccurate forwards.
With Seanie Johnston in opposition you'll get punished for that.
RTÉ just showing this now. Did the crowd not realise the minutes silence ends when the man starts singing ?
The game is being shown now on http://www.nkora.net/
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 06, 2009, 08:48:40 PM
The losing of this game was where Fermanagh played their CHF. They needed to go at this game and didn't do it. They gave Cavan the extra man in defense which gave less space to fermanagh's already inaccurate forwards.
With Seanie Johnston in opposition you'll get punished for that.
Cavan were far more accurate and more skillful than Fermanagh. Similar to derry v fermanagh without the vicious nastiness that game had. Just a poor game but the weather was awful. Why you would want to play a spare man at the back when playing with a gale?
Dreadful game ,some ammout of dropped balls and wides and there is still 30 minutes on the RTÉ coverage to go.
Crap game by two very poor teams, I know the weather was a big factor but some of the footballing skills on display were very poor by both sides.
Again too many fouls, too many wides and kicks at points falling short (a pet hate of mine), and a ground that was lucky to have 8-10 thousand at it, is this this famed Ulster Championship (aka The Land of Giants) we are told about all the time , surely not.
How in the name of feck have Cavan got 38 Ulster titles to their credit and still only have 5 real football titles to go along with them, says alot about the standards up there for the last 125 years.
Quote from: Donegal Danny on June 06, 2009, 07:19:23 PM
Poor enough game, but from a Donegal point of view happy to see Cavan hold on, as Fermanagh always give us bother. I know we have to beat Antrim next week but i think we look good for an Ulster final spot at this stage.
Fair play Donegal Danny I'm even happier now, keep it up.
Personally I couldn't give two tuppeny shites about (1) the crap football (2) Fermanagh's tactical ineptitude, particularly in the first half (3) poor free taking by Fermanagh. I'm taking nothing but positives given that we fielded a very inexperienced team. I reckon Michael Brides was the only starter who was on our last Ulster Final team on 01. And hats off to Brides, particularly for his first half performance given the awful injuries he's suffered.
Our full back line was much maligned coming into this and I thought we dealt with Fermanagh quite well. Also good to see two debutants cope quite well in the Half back line, even though I thought Keating would be targeted a lot more by Fermanagh. It's also good to see a Cavan side that, for a change, was in a position to mix it physically with the opposition.
A few lads who might be competing by the time of the next round which would help-Fannin, Cahill, Gunner back from the Handball, Lyng, Pierson (?)
When it all boiled down, Johnston was the man however. We've nothing to lose in Ulster from here on in and I'd love to see Carr take a bit of a gamble in the next round i.e. start either Larry or Jason inside in the full forward line-Larry in particular seems to be in great shape and would give opposing full back line a small bit to think about apart from Jelly.
Anyway, well done to players and mentors.
Quote from: Kerry Mike on June 06, 2009, 10:47:10 PM
Crap game by two very poor teams, I know the weather was a big factor but some of the footballing skills on display were very poor by both sides.
Again too many fouls, too many wides and kicks at points falling short (a pet hate of mine), and a ground that was lucky to have 8-10 thousand at it, is this this famed Ulster Championship (aka The Land of Giants) we are told about all the time , surely not.
How in the name of feck have Cavan got 38 Ulster titles to their credit and still only have 5 real football titles to go along with them, says alot about the standards up there for the last 125 years.
Some fair points in there Mike but just to pull you up it's 39 Ulster titles. Clearly we'd only have 4 Sam's if Paddy Bawn' brother's sister's aunt hadn't done the cruciate ligament on the boat over to new York in 1947. Glad that one still hurts and, while we are now a retired football power I'm glad we were in there when Kerry started their eternal tradition of choking against Ulster teams on the days that matter. What about tomorrow, you expect the Kerry support to travel?
Cavan is a great Gaa county though Mike. They don't play anything else up there except Gaa. Plenty of natural footballers as well , but they can't keep half of them off the gargle. Carr had to get rid of half of them off the squad.
I said at his appointment Carr would be good for Cavan and he will be. I think they've a shot of getting to an Ulster final. Donegal are not that good that they can take Cavan for granted. Cavan need to get the likes of Pierson in up front- he's too good to leave off.
Quote from: Kerry Mike on June 06, 2009, 10:47:10 PM
How in the name of feck have Cavan got 38 Ulster titles to their credit and still only have 5 real football titles to go along with them, says alot about the standards up there for the last 125 years.
The arrogance in that statement alone would be the envy of Pat (Puke) Spillane. Coming from a man whose better half is a Monaghan lass is risky at the very least. She's obviously not proof reading your posts!
Cavan are a great footballing county (yes, I did just type that!) and set the bar in Ulster for two decades. You're neglecting the fact that for many reasons for many decades the Ulster Title was 'a real football title'. It was Cavan and Down that reversed this trend and broke the mould. There was no team in Ulster to touch them.
A good win for Cavan this evening. The underdog tag didn't suit Fermanagh. It wasn't a cracker but Cavan deserved it, the were up for it and intent on playing football. Cullivan didn't result in any scores but was a handful and disrupted Fermanagh full-back line. Seanie Johnson is a class act. Mackey done well too until getting injured, he reminds me of Gollogly for Monaghan, similar build, busy and not afraid to get forward for a pop.
Monaghan v Fermanagh in the first round of the qualifiers I reckon..
Malachy O'Rourke = anti-football.
thought johnson was immense 2day,if cavan got the ball into him earlier and more direct then it would have been over a lot earlier than it was.o'reily had a great game from the dead ball perspective, but in my opinion wasnt up to much from play, over carrying and poor shooting with the right foot.
It just goes to show the standard Down are at these days, turley from downpatrick could hardly handle carson, and yet 2day he was kept relatively quiet compared to that in brewster! T McElroy hada poor one in my view today, could have fisted the ball in twice near the end instead of going for his own score, which proved to be the wrong option.
just want to ask what people thought of the ref today?too harsh or was it good refing?
Quote from: INDIANA on June 06, 2009, 11:21:31 PM
Donegal are not that good that they can take Cavan for granted.
Its only four years since a Cavan side on its knees, one week after a 21 point hammering by Tyrone, and with only 1000 supporters out to cheer them on, shocked us in the qualifiers. Hopefully that will be very fresh in the mind at home, given that many of that squad are still in place. Of course, this all assumes we aren't equally as complacent and arrogant next week as we were that day in Breffni against Cavan. We are certainly not good enough to take anyone for granted.
QuoteWe've nothing to lose in Ulster from here on in and I'd love to see Carr take a bit of a gamble in the next round i.e. start either Larry or Jason inside in the full forward line-Larry in particular seems to be in great shape and would give opposing full back line a small bit to think about apart from Jelly.
Cop yourself on kid, so who you would take from the full forward linethe ball winner or the free taker?
I though fermanagh were slightly better than that, bring on Donegal(or Antrim) nothing to lose now and Cavan are most dangerous when underdogs.
Martin Reilly may be forced to move to half forward line because Cian Mackey may not be ready, he is goin for a scan on his cruciate today. It is not torn but they are goin to see the extent of the injury. Massive blow to Cavan.
Maybe I'm easy pleased but I enjoyed it. Well done Cavan and nothing to fear in the semi. For a widely respected manager O'Rourke was tactically inept yesterday or maybe it's a case of we play one way and one way only no matter what happens or what the prevailing conditions are, if that's the case then that's certainly not the sign of a good team.
O rourke had a mare and he needs a balancing act within the fermanagah camp to argue with many of his extreme football tactics, the rest of the guys on the management team must be simply yes men. Surely someone could have shouted stop in that first half.
Quote from: Kerry Mike on June 06, 2009, 10:47:10 PM
Crap game by two very poor teams, I know the weather was a big factor but some of the footballing skills on display were very poor by both sides.
Again too many fouls, too many wides and kicks at points falling short (a pet hate of mine), and a ground that was lucky to have 8-10 thousand at it, is this this famed Ulster Championship (aka The Land of Giants) we are told about all the time , surely not.
How in the name of feck have Cavan got 38 Ulster titles to their credit and still only have 5 real football titles to go along with them, says alot about the standards up there for the last 125 years.
Your some bollix. Kerry wouldn't fill a bus with their support to a game in Tralee.
Where do i start???
First congratulations to Cavan. The best team won. I have no idea how Fermanagh only got beat by a point.
Your manager had the players well prepared and they knew exactly how Fermanagh were going to play and how to stop them.
Johnston was a bit of class but i was really impressed by your number 12. he had an excellent game.
From a Fermanagh perspective only really Little and Blobby turned up. Little won a serious amount of break ball in the second half and everytime Carson got the ball he looked dangerous. The problem was he had no support until Owens came on but then he had to be shipped to midfield.
The other 4 forwards were poor. R Keenan is not a corner forward. He lacks the confidence to shoot and i have no idea how he lasted nearly the whole match.
Eamonn scored a good goal but looked a shadow of himself. C McElroy dropped deep as expected but Cavan just left him to it and had an extra man in defence to double up on Carson, which suited them grand. D Keenan had a game to forget.
At midfield we were cleaned out for the first time in the championship in years. This had been happening in the league and the first half against Down.
In defence Lyons was been cleaned out and Brady did better when moved over to Full back. Sherry did well when he came on. McCluskey and McDermott are both CHBs and only one of them should play. Tommy was our only real attacking threat from the half back line and he did not have his shooting boots on. D Kelly should have been on earlier.
I have no clue where fermanagh go to from here. As long as we avoid any team from Ulster in the backdoor, i would be happy enough.
But realistically Fermanagh will not win an All Ireland, the height of our aims was an Ulster and i think that we have let another possible Ulster final appearance slip through our fingers.
I'd rather watch Monaghan v Derry again! Terrible game - it's easy to count up the chances for Fermanagh to be on the right side of that result. Can't see either team going too far, although i still wouldn't like to draw Fermanagh in the first round.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on June 07, 2009, 11:21:55 AM
Quote from: Kerry Mike on June 06, 2009, 10:47:10 PM
Crap game by two very poor teams, I know the weather was a big factor but some of the footballing skills on display were very poor by both sides.
Again too many fouls, too many wides and kicks at points falling short (a pet hate of mine), and a ground that was lucky to have 8-10 thousand at it, is this this famed Ulster Championship (aka The Land of Giants) we are told about all the time , surely not.
How in the name of feck have Cavan got 38 Ulster titles to their credit and still only have 5 real football titles to go along with them, says alot about the standards up there for the last 125 years.
Your some bollix. Kerry wouldn't fill a bus with their support to a game in Tralee.
When are people going to realise that virtually every post from Kerrymike is a wind up attempt (normally a poor one too)
Quote from: mylestheslasher on June 07, 2009, 11:21:55 AM
Quote from: Kerry Mike on June 06, 2009, 10:47:10 PM
Crap game by two very poor teams, I know the weather was a big factor but some of the footballing skills on display were very poor by both sides.
Again too many fouls, too many wides and kicks at points falling short (a pet hate of mine), and a ground that was lucky to have 8-10 thousand at it, is this this famed Ulster Championship (aka The Land of Giants) we are told about all the time , surely not.
How in the name of feck have Cavan got 38 Ulster titles to their credit and still only have 5 real football titles to go along with them, says alot about the standards up there for the last 125 years.
Your some bollix. Kerry wouldn't fill a bus with their support to a game in Tralee.
Do'nt rise to the bait Myles.
Anyone with an ability to read or even watch T.V. knows why Ulster was weak over the last 125 years.Strangely not nearly so weak over the last 40/50 years.
Wonder why that could be?
Quote from: Kerry Mike on June 06, 2009, 10:47:10 PM
Crap game by two very poor teams, I know the weather was a big factor but some of the footballing skills on display were very poor by both sides.
Again too many fouls, too many wides and kicks at points falling short (a pet hate of mine), and a ground that was lucky to have 8-10 thousand at it, is this this famed Ulster Championship (aka The Land of Giants) we are told about all the time , surely not.
How in the name of feck have Cavan got 38 Ulster titles to their credit and still only have 5 real football titles to go along with them, says alot about the standards up there for the last 125 years.
Oops... Mike Sheehy has logged in under Kerry Mike's credentials, identity theft or what! ;)
QuoteIf this dry weather keeps up, Mackey, Johnston, Flanagan, Martin Reilly and Co will play havoc. Walsh and Galligan will break even which means that so long as our defence holds up, we'll be ok.
The key players in my opinion are Keating and Podge Reilly - if they hold their own, we'll win by three or four points in my opinion.
Breffni Park is a massive pitch and will suit Cavan more than Fermanagh.
Hollow Man's prediction: Cullivan to score a goal (possibly fisted), Martin Reilly to kick five or six points from frees and play and Cavan to beat Fermanagh by three/four points.
Not a bad prediction there Hollow Man. Mackey and Johnston were the key men and midfield broke even.
I don't think that End to End article was too far wrong as it turned out Boojangles. I read it yesterday before the game and it tipped Cavan to win by a point (correct) and said that if Cavan could match Fermanagh's workrate, their classier players (Johnston, Mackey and Flanagan were the names mentioned) would be the difference.
Absolutely 100% spot on!!!
What did you think of the game? I was impressed with Cavan to be honest. Bring on Donegal.
Quote from: cavan4ever on June 07, 2009, 08:31:33 AM
QuoteWe've nothing to lose in Ulster from here on in and I'd love to see Carr take a bit of a gamble in the next round i.e. start either Larry or Jason inside in the full forward line-Larry in particular seems to be in great shape and would give opposing full back line a small bit to think about apart from Jelly.
Cop yourself on kid, so who you would take from the full forward linethe ball winner or the free taker?
I though fermanagh were slightly better than that, bring on Donegal(or Antrim) nothing to lose now and Cavan are most dangerous when underdogs.
steady on there C4E-just a thought like. Cullivan could easily go out into the half foward line for the sake or argument, just think Larry still has it in him to put the wind up a few full back lines one more time and maybe make a bit of space for Johnston. Unlikely to happen I admit but still Carr will no doubt be thinking of a few plan B's for the next game.
I prefer Larry as an impact sub. In other years Cavan had no game plan but this year they do and I don't think it suits the plan for Larry to start.
Cullivan is a great foil in there for Johnston. We need more from Martin Reilly from play - his frees were superb but he has more to offer.
Gunner, Fannin, Dunne (who was very good when he came on), Givney, Pierson, Larry, Jason, Eddie O'Reilly, Mulvey represent an impressive bench.
Gutted after yesterday. As someone said only Blobby and Little really turned up but were often outnumbered due to the system.
Still a game we could easily have won, had more than enough chances but same old shite I'm afraid.
Heard Keogan getting a wee touch in the town afterwards from a few Cavan fans.
Quote from: ExiledGael on June 07, 2009, 07:03:38 PM
Gutted after yesterday. As someone said only Blobby and Little really turned up but were often outnumbered due to the system.
Still a game we could easily have won, had more than enough chances but same old shite I'm afraid.
Heard Keogan getting a wee touch in the town afterwards from a few Cavan fans.
Thats no harm :D
Can't see Mackey being fit for the next one so we may see Larry or Jason return. Are there any other options?
At the start of the season my goal was to see cavan weed out the wasters and put a team of 15 out on the field that would bust a gut for Cavan. Many of us spoke about putting down a foundation for future success. I am delighted to say that Tommy Carr has done just that. Contrary to what a lot of people think, Fermanagh are a very good team. They have a system and players that has beaten some of the best teams in Ireland. I was in Croke park when they drew with Mayo in an All Ireland semi a few years back. They beat good teams last yr on their way to the Ulster final. Fermanagh have a couple of very good players, maybe not in the top tier, but they work very hard and are very difficult to beat. So when we knew we had to beat them it was a question of would Cavan buck recent trends and be fit enough, physically and mentally strong enough, athletic enough and hungry to match Fermanagh. I am delighted to say we were. Its been a while since Cavan worked like that for each other.
Seanie Johnstone went up another level in that match. Everytime he got the ball he made something out of nothing. If he can keep that form and stay fit I don't know if anyone could mark him and for me he could be mentioned in the same breath of Bradley and gooch. Cullivan played well at FF giving us that strong aerial ability in there that we have craved for years. I thought we struggled at times in the middle but we did complete for the full match. McCutcheon was great at WB. I thought Keating was poor enough with the passing which was what he was there for but he is only 19 and this was his 1st big game. Sean Brady didn't contribute enough over the match. Mackey put in a fantastic 70 minutes of running with the ball. His point in the 2nd half involve a run from his own end line to the Fermanagh goal.
I'm delighted that there are people so arrogant out there that think Donegal are in an ulster final already - keep thinking it. If they beat Antrim I would expect a more open game against Cavan and I think we'll run them close enough.
Seanie Johnson was bloody brilliant. Reminded me of Canavan around the mid-90s. He can ride tackles whilst lofting one over from distance. What age is he?
What's the story with Lyng?
Larry must be 47?
Quote from: ONeill on June 07, 2009, 08:52:36 PM
Seanie Johnson was bloody brilliant. Reminded me of Canavan around the mid-90s. He can ride tackles whilst lofting one over from distance. What age is he?
What's the story with Lyng?
Larry must be 47?
Johnaton is 24 i think. Lyng should be back the next day and will prob come in for Sean Brady. I think that larry is 31.
Quote from: downgirl on June 06, 2009, 05:37:19 PM
Did anyone catch the name of yer man who was singing the national anthem? Matthew something?
Downgirl - His name is Mathew Keaney. From my own town Killeshandra. A good few years ago he was part of a band called "Reel" that was supposed to bring trad irish and pop together. I think Louis Walsh was behind it. Didn't happen for them anyway. First time I seen the lad in years - he has a few pounds put on :D
Now, everybody stay quiet.
Quote from: ONeill on June 07, 2009, 08:52:36 PM
Seanie Johnson was bloody brilliant. Reminded me of Canavan around the mid-90s. He can ride tackles whilst lofting one over from distance. What age is he?
What's the story with Lyng?
Larry must be 47?
Larry was 47" waist at the start of the season but he's down to 36" now.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on June 07, 2009, 08:46:16 PM
At the start of the season my goal was to see cavan weed out the wasters and put a team of 15 out on the field that would bust a gut for Cavan. Many of us spoke about putting down a foundation for future success. I am delighted to say that Tommy Carr has done just that.
Hear, hear Myles and well said. You can forgive a team a lot of things as long as they, at the very least, put in an honest shift and spare no effort for the jersey and the county. Sadly, we haven't had that for a while now and it's great to see it back.
http://ulster.gaa.ie/landofthegiants/2009/06/07/cavan-0-13-fermanagh-1-9/ - Tommy Carr has some interesting thoughts on the Ulster scene and makes no excuses for the 'scrappy' performance.
Mackey injury not as bad as first feared lads. Wil report more when i hear it.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on June 07, 2009, 09:42:53 PM
Downgirl - His name is Mathew Keaney. From my own town Killeshandra. A good few years ago he was part of a band called "Reel" that was supposed to bring trad irish and pop together. I think Louis Walsh was behind it. Didn't happen for them anyway. First time I seen the lad in years - he has a few pounds put on :D
Many of the people who have heard Matthew sing over the years would regard Reel as the nadir rather than the highlight of his career. He is a fantastic singer.
Quote from: Caid on June 03, 2009, 10:43:21 PM
Fermanagh SWOT analysis for Saturday
Strengths
1. The backs: Great man markers, excellent executers of the blanket defence, and backs that know how to tackle and, importantly, concede few frees (which Cavan tend to rely on for scores)
2. The manager: A proven master tactician with a strong bench (Murphy, Owens, Goan, Sherry, Kelly, Foy etc) to call upon if the system needs changed
3. The hunger: No team wants to win Ulster more. Full stop
4. Goals: Despite what Joe Brolly says about all Fermanagh's goals being flukes, we averaged a goal a game in the league and Cavan only scored in one game (two goals on the opening day). With there being potential chinks in the Cavan back line I fancy Fermanagh to get a goal and this to be the difference between the teams
5. Ability to win tight games
Weaknesses
1. Reliable freetaker: Lets not kid ourselves - all of Blobby's frees the last day were scoreable. The first 35 yard free is crucial. The fans will be wondering if it will go over; as will the kicker. This is still a major concern
2. Scoring from distance: Key to winning any Ulster Championship match given the systems currently employed is kicking points from around 35 metres. Fermanagh couldn't do this last year. We beat Down partly because McElroy and Sherry, twice, hit long range scores early on. Will these type of kicks go over on Saturday?
3. Strength in depth: Strange that I have this as a weakness but many of the players that played well the last day, and so will probably keep their place, often don't have two good days in a row. Thus the decision to stick with the same team (if this is what O'Rourke does) may not actually be the best decision
4. Absentees: Barry Owens is still not fit, Clucker is half-fit and hasn't played much gaelic, murphy is just back from Australia, McCabe is unavailable, Little has not been playing club football. These are class players whose absence will have an impact on a small county like Fermanagh
Opportunities
1. The Cavan back line seems to be quite small and there are some reports of Sheridan being vulnerable at FB. If things aren't going well the option to throw on Owens, Murphy or McBarron (all six foot plus) in the FF line and bomb in high balls could be valuable
2. Lack of Cavan confidence: Have has limited success in recent years and something like five managers in six years. The comments coming from the Panel in recent days, namely from Carr, Johnston and Larry, have been fairly downbeat (although Ronan Flanagan was significantly more bullish about Cavan's prospects)
3. Cavan's overreliance on Johnson and Pierson: In the crunch league games against Roscommon and Down 50% of Cavan's scores were from Johnson (albeit only two points in each game were from frees). Malachy knows "jelly's" game from his time at Cavan Gaels. If Johnston is well marked (we have at least 3/4 men who could do a job) and Pierson has limited impact then were are Cavan's scores going to come from; and what is their plan B going to be?
Threats
1. Seanie Johnston
2. Midfield: Cavan have plenty of options at midfield and possess the ability to move men into the middle if they are not winning much ball. Nicholas Walsh also has a big display in him. (Although its worth noting that against Down Dan Gordon won a lot of clean ball in the first half. In the second half kick outs were directed away from Gordon and the ball broken. Rarely do Fermanagh not win the majority of breaks)
3. Home advantage to Cavan
4. History: Fermanagh has never beat Cavan but then there were many counties like this until recent years
Note: Copyright on the use of SWOT analysis for GAA matches hereby belongs to Caid. Any subsequent use of SWOT analysis in the Gaelic Life, or indeed any similar publication, shall result in Caid receiving (1) A Gaelic Life hoodie (as he has no chance of winning the fantasy competition); and (2) A kiss for one of his mates from the McGourty (McDorty?) girl that writes "hunk of the week"
So Caid, what went wrong. You had all the 3/4 men marking Johnstone at the same time and still couldn't stop him!
A good point Myles.
The question from a Fermanagh point of view is what is the story with Goan??
Marked T Freeman, P Bradley and S McDonnell is last years Ulster campaign and did a good job on each one.
Do not understand what he has done to be reduced to a squad member.
Quote from: Drung on June 07, 2009, 01:49:59 PM
QuoteIf this dry weather keeps up, Mackey, Johnston, Flanagan, Martin Reilly and Co will play havoc. Walsh and Galligan will break even which means that so long as our defence holds up, we'll be ok.
The key players in my opinion are Keating and Podge Reilly - if they hold their own, we'll win by three or four points in my opinion.
Breffni Park is a massive pitch and will suit Cavan more than Fermanagh.
Hollow Man's prediction: Cullivan to score a goal (possibly fisted), Martin Reilly to kick five or six points from frees and play and Cavan to beat Fermanagh by three/four points.
Not a bad prediction there Hollow Man. Mackey and Johnston were the key men and midfield broke even.
I don't think that End to End article was too far wrong as it turned out Boojangles. I read it yesterday before the game and it tipped Cavan to win by a point (correct) and said that if Cavan could match Fermanagh's workrate, their classier players (Johnston, Mackey and Flanagan were the names mentioned) would be the difference.
Absolutely 100% spot on!!!
What did you think of the game? I was impressed with Cavan to be honest. Bring on Donegal.
I never questioned how accurate the article was,just felt it was a bit insulting to Fermanagh.In fact I think the whole coverage by the Celt and Paul Fitz in paticular was excellent and makes a massive and welcome change from Mr Gaffney.
I think the dogs on the street could have called it that way though(not the result,which BTW I was only a point off ;D ;D).I made specific reference to Mackey about 3 months ago and his importance to Cavans chances this summer,Obviously Johnston the same.We all knew that Cavan would have to lift their work rate,and they did it.Mackey and Flanagan in particular must have been exhausted Sunday.
Quote from: FermGael on June 08, 2009, 05:26:29 PM
A good point Myles.
The question from a Fermanagh point of view is what is the story with Goan??
Marked T Freeman, P Bradley and S McDonnell is last years Ulster campaign and did a good job on each one.
Do not understand what he has done to be reduced to a squad member.
Fair point but that was not where this match was lost. Stats page in the irish News was very interesting today especially the attacks stats.
Fermanagh had 45 attacks, 30 shots and just 10 scores. They hit 11 wides and 9 shots dropped short.
Cavan had 36 attacks, 23 shots and 13 scores. Thy hit just 3 wides and 4 shots dropped short.
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 07, 2009, 11:48:22 AM
I'd rather watch Monaghan v Derry again! Terrible game - it's easy to count up the chances for Fermanagh to be on the right side of that result. Can't see either team going too far, although i still wouldn't like to draw Fermanagh in the first round.
now thats sour grapes ;D
Quote from: the salmon of knowledge on June 08, 2009, 07:06:01 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 07, 2009, 11:48:22 AM
I'd rather watch Monaghan v Derry again! Terrible game - it's easy to count up the chances for Fermanagh to be on the right side of that result. Can't see either team going too far, although i still wouldn't like to draw Fermanagh in the first round.
now thats sour grapes ;D
Hopfully you get Armagh and are put out.
See that the Betfair blog predictions got it tooo...maybe not such a shock...
Cavan vs Fermanagh - Breffni Park, Saturday 5.30 pm. Live on BBC.
1914...that's the last time Fermanagh beat Cavan in Ulster. So much has happened since then, it's a different world: Hitler made people distrust men with facial hair, JFK was shot, Bill Clinton shot and Susan Boyle won Britain's Got Tal..sorry..anyway..Cavan and Fermanagh.
Now after that sensational bit of date usage, it should be noted that Fermanagh gave their neighbours a three-point beating in the 2003 Qualifiers. That was in Brewster Park though, and while O'Rourke seems to be able to get the best out of his side, a win in Breffni Park is a 'big ask'.
Fermanagh's relentless effort and swarming defence wears teams down, and while Ryan Carson may look more Andy Reid than Cristiano Ronaldo, his free-taking was good against Down. He'll need to have a viagra and keep it up on Saturday evening if the Ernesiders are to prosper.
Tommy Carr's tenure began in a ball of whining about the availability of college players, worsened with defeats to Longford and Tipp, before a mini-resurgence saw them scalp Down in Newry, Limerick, and an eight point trouncing of Roscommon. If Seanie Johnston lasts the seventy minutes, Cavan can provide value at 2.42 and keep their Indian sign over Fermanagh intact.
Thought this was an entertaining game, really enjoyable and way more watchable than what went on in Croker the day after. Some of my friends who have never seen an intercounty game before watched it and said they thought it was great, loved the pace of the game and the full blooded commitment of the play compared to the borefest of Ireland V Bulgaria that was on previously.
Quote from: thejuice on June 09, 2009, 01:50:43 PM
Thought this was an entertaining game, really enjoyable and way more watchable than what went on in Croker the day after. Some of my friends who have never seen an intercounty game before watched it and said they thought it was great, loved the pace of the game and the full blooded commitment of the play compared to the borefest of Ireland V Bulgaria that was on previously.
The quality at times was a bit scrappy but nobody could question the commitment off all the players,both teams looked very fit and some of the point scoring was top quality.Its not too often we could say the above about a Cavan team,which alone shows why most Cavan supporters were happy on Saturday evening.We have won championship games in the past 4-5 years,but none with the same determination or guts that we showed Saturday,something that TC definitely has to be given credit for.