Apart from the fact that this years championship season is about to start in one of the worst re......ah look, I don't want to go into the R word but:
Notwithstanding the current state of gaa supporters finances on a broad scale, attendances at Croke Park for important games, particularly hurling games over the last few years has been a major concern. Now, before anyone tells me there is a hurling section on the board I am referring to GAA in general and lest we forget, hurling is very much part of the GAA as much as football. So, when I refer to attendances I refer to both hurling and football and let's take Croke Park as the venue that I am specifically talking about.
1. I was at last years Leinster Hurling Final (Thanks for the tickets John McGill), I was at the All-Ireland Semi's and the Final. If the attendances at a Leinster final, be it football or hurling were so low at the height of our tiger years what are they going to be like this year?
2. Some games in particular had attendances that in my opinion did as much harm to the promotion of our games as the moving of them to provincial venues. Should Leinster Finals should be played in Croke Park, and each provincial final should be played in its own province regardless of whether it is Tyrone v Armagh ior whatever ?
On Wednesday night in Italy we saw a stadium FULL of Irish and Italians who all paid the princely sum of 10 euro per ticket to see an International. Are our prices too high. Outside of the launch of our national football league and the 125yr celebrations, the fireworks and other displays on the night were a credit to the GAA despite the high cost. When word got out of what was going to be on offer in terms of a support show to the actual game itself, with respect to Tyrone and Dublin, there was not a seat to be got in the house. So, albeit on a much smaller scale, is it time for the GAA to get innovative, or will I be sitting in the stand at this years Leinster Final looking across the field into an empty stand on the other side and listening to people moaning about the low level of attendance?
It is time that the GAA became a bit innovative and a percentage of the money that is on each ticket for any event in Croke Park should go towards providing pre-game entertainment that will encourage family outings to game that are likely to (a) attract low attendances but (b) deserve, because of their traditional level of importance such as a Leinster Hurling Final, to be played in Croke Park.
Now, without hogging the subject by going on to propose what should be done has anyone any ideas as to what would attract more people to our games. As an example, it is not beyond possibility that Dublin will be playing Kilkenny in this years Leinster Hurling Final, or that Kildare will be playing Meath. In the former case, here would be one of the best opportunities to promote hurling in Dublin that has come our way in the last ten or twenty years, so instead of a few Dub's looking into empty stands and the Cats staying at home waiting for the All-Ireland Final, how do we fill those seats without moving the game out of Croke Park?
One thing should be that you have a stamps programme for league/championship matches and each country guarantees that people who attend all home games and 1/2 the away games are guaranteed a ticket for the latter stages of the championship (or if the county doesn't get enough they are the only ones in a draw for the championship tickets)...
Well, you reduce ticket prices? That'd be the easiest answer
If that particular fixture comes up, some people in the GAA will be just expecting Dublin to help fill Croker. But obviously not all of 'the dubs' who fill it for the football are interested in hurling.
If the GAA are serious about promoting hurling in Dublin, then they need to attract a sell out attendance for such a fixture.
I think all ticket prices have already been set for this year? Just the same as last year, I think. So they couldn't really offer a reduced rate ticket price just for this game that isn't being offered for other fixtures. They already offer fairly good family tickets for games, maybe they could increase the number of family tickets available? For people that aren't involved with a club they should make it well know when they are available on ticketmaster.
What they really need is a good marketing team. When Tyrone played Dublin at the first game under lights at croker, there were loads of tv and newspaper ads which got everyone talking about it. There wasn't as much pr for the game this year and there was a slightly smaller turnout.
They need the main sponsors to help promote the games more. Get the Guinness hurling cubed games being played outside croker on more match days. Vodafone had some class billboards adverts for the dubs around the city last year, maybe they could put up more with some of the 'star' Dublin hurlers on them, just to increase interest
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on April 03, 2009, 09:18:18 AM
One thing should be that you have a stamps programme for league/championship matches and each country guarantees that people who attend all home games and 1/2 the away games are guaranteed a ticket for the latter stages of the championship (or if the county doesn't get enough they are the only ones in a draw for the championship tickets)...
These stamps programmes are messy & bureaucratic - read some of the stories on this site about guys with notebooks writing down serial numbers of season tickets outside some of the recent Allianz league games.
They also discriminate against supporters who cannot travel to all games, including the elderly, those with small kids or those with other GAA commitments. For example, there were large numbers of Tyrone supporters and participants at the Ulster Scór Finals last Saturday night in Swatragh. It was impossible for them to attend the Tyrone v Derry league game in Omagh, which started at the same time, an hour's drive away. Should they be punished for their loyalty to Scór? Ditto the many people who play, train or coach on Sunday mornings and find it difficult at this time of year to combine this with driving an hour or two to their county's away league fixtures, to arrive by 2pm or so.
The GAA need to improve and simplify the family ticket schemes in Croke Park. For example, why are they restricted to the Davin Stand (and/or Cusack Stand) for so many games, even when the Hogan is only likely to be 2/3 full at best? If I bring a child to Croke Park, they are not going to enjoy the atmosphere if they are stuck own their own in a corner of the ground away from the mass of supporters in the main stands.
On The Day Ticket Agents. Deals done through Hotels (*) or Shops. There is no place in Croke Park now for the last minute man or the man who has a wad of notes in his pocket but still has not come around to the plastic card. Taking away the simple "buy at the gate" process, and it was taken away by enforcement of procedures rather than by requirement, has not alone made it inconvenient for traditional gaa supporters but it has led them to believe that the games in Croke Park are out of their zone.
Live entertainment, but not five or six people dancing a jig on a wooden pallet while someone bates the hell out of a bodhran. Even if the GAA had got Glen Hansard and Marketa Iglova to sing their Oscar winning song before a game it would have attracted a crowd so I am not saying we should see U2 before each game as a warm up but there are entertainers out there who believe it or not are staunch GAA men and who would attract crowds that would be suitable for family entertainment and who would perform for a lot less than you would think, particularly if they had an album they were about to release. I am not talking about a big stage, I am talking about a simple 30 minute entertainment section before each game.
* I am not sure what I mean myself when I say hotels but there has to be something here. If it was me the first thing I would do is estimate how many empty seats I am going to be left with. So, based on that I am still going to loose these seats anyway, how do I get arses on those seats even at a reduced rate and I think that a half price offer to hotels in the area around Croke Park would be better than wasting them. So, say they give them to Jurys and they in turn promote an offer for a room and a ticket as a package or have them available to sell to regular customers or something, or do what they like with them once they have done the agreed amount of advertising.
Basicly I haven't a clue what I am rambling on about but I do know that if the GAA don't take the lead instead of watching what english soccer stadiums are doing, and if this years attendances at provincial and quarter finals is worse than it was last year it may be too late to do anything.
Do deals with the Athletic Asociation where attempts at Irish records will be made. If it means puting a running track around the pitch then so be it but give us an attempt at at least a straight
100m meters down the side or even a friggin high jump or pole vault record or anything that is meaninful other than the point kicking competition that was the most embarrising thing I have seen.
Bud with respect I think you are rambling a bit, I mean noone in their right mind can surely believe we should put a running track into CP to try and get a few more punters in. I don't think we should be trying to entice people in with add on entertainment either, I was 100% behid the fireworks at the Tyrone/Dublin match but few are going to go to a game they've little interest because you add on 30 minutes of music at the start and we wouldn't be long running out of even semi attractive acts. Thehotel thing is a non runner too IMO as few people stay over night in Dublin except for the biggest games and then it is often in a mates house.
The reality is, the Leinster hurling final isn't an attractive fixture at the moment and should probably be played in a provincial ground where a crowd of 20-25K would generate a cracking atmosphere. That would be much better than saying (more or less) 'look lads if ye won't come for the hurling how 'bout we throw in a bit of music as well'. Of course we must do more to increase attendances and reducing prices for certain sections of the ground might be one way or doing deals with travel agencies to attract the Dublin tourist population to games may be another. Increased promotion and advertising of the games should be a given but GAA supporters themselves must anawer a few questions, we seem to be always finding a reason not to go to games, the price is too high, the game is on too late (or the wrong day), it's too far away blah, blah, blah, blah. Yet Munster and Leinster can bring thousands to France or England and English soccer supporters travel round trips of 12 hours on a Saturday to see their teams, why are we different?
Or do things like randomly select people in the crowd, get them on the field to kick a point or something to win a prize. They did things like that in Thomond and at sports events in the USA for years.
Quote from: thejuice on April 03, 2009, 10:24:08 AM
Or do things like randomly select people in the crowd, get them on the field to kick a point or something to win a prize. They did things like that in Thomond and at sports events in the USA for years.
that wouldnt be a bad idea juice - give people at halftime the chance of kicking a point in corker in front of a massive crowd - though wouldnt fancy doing it after 10 pints in fegans before the match..... :D
Quote from: Bud Wiser on April 03, 2009, 09:58:44 AM
On The Day Ticket Agents. Deals done through Hotels (*) or Shops. There is no place in Croke Park now for the last minute man or the man who has a wad of notes in his pocket but still has not come around to the plastic card. Taking away the simple "buy at the gate" process, and it was taken away by enforcement of procedures rather than by requirement, has not alone made it inconvenient for traditional gaa supporters but it has led them to believe that the games in Croke Park are out of their zone.
This is an excellent point.
A few other ideas:
Negotiate parking (eg non-clamping or cheaper rates) with local authorities on matchdays.
Organise special park & ride train or bus services on matchdays.
Improve the food facilities within grounds.
Would it be too much to offer free tea/coffee or sponsored bottled water/snacks to patrons, where possible?
Well whatever about the rest, Hotels are at the centre of tourism and as such have better marketing structures in place than Croke Park. Last year they advertised the "All-Ireland Club Football Final" on the same day as they hurling final without a mention of the hurling. Agreed, it was the football sponsor that did the add but for jaysus sake why could they not get the same deal for the hurling, another example of the GAA's attitude to hurling. Now, lets say there is racing in Punchestown on Saturday and a hotel want to offer tickets for the races, golf and a match in Croke Park as a package why not give them tickets to do it. For example, if you join the PGA Golf you get free admission to all race meetings in Punchestown, free access to the gym in City West so what is the big deal or big difference in making packages available for hotels and gaa to do the same, we don't all stay in our cousins house or rented flat on the cheap when we come to Dublin to avoid current rates of around 50 euro a night.
Secondly, I said that I was not suggesting big bands but bands that would be better than a few characters doing jigs and reels on a piece of a board. Moving the leinster hurling final out of Croke Park is an idea that reminds me of a local councillor who suggested that where I live we should build apartments along the Dodder river because of the vandals that were there, ie, don't address the real problem, move it.
The idea of crowd involvement is a good one. Maybe now that cars are down to around 20 grand the ticket you buy should give you a chance to drive home a brand new Ford Focus if the GPA will allow.
Yet Munster and Leinster can bring thousands to France or England and English soccer supporters travel round trips of 12 hours on a Saturday to see their teams, why are we different?
The very reason I started the thread.
Bud wiser is very much on the money this (no pun intended)
The GAA at present is happy to rely on the loyalty of punters but this loyalty will be very much tested in current climate and we have to move on from this attitude.
We need to target the fair weather supporters, no matter how we loathe them at times. Even the club man needs to be taken back into the county scene. I know (as I'm sure we all do) ex-county players who never go to matches unless its the big day out in croker. These are family men now and they are happy that they are not missing anything.
There is no attraction to bring a family to games in most county grounds bar the actual 70 minutes play. Why would I take the kids in a car for say 1 or 2 hours to get to the field to find no proper catering facilities, poor toilets and then just sit and watch a game before going home again in a longer traffic jam.
I would like to see a fun park outside the grounds for the bigger provincial games. Every much like you see at American football games. This should include:
- Games and activities for kids from peno comps to bouncy castles
- Proper food stalls with a choice in this area - Deli's, hot/cold drinks, space to sit and enjoy them.
- GAA coaches on hand to hold small coaching sessions in a designated area say every 15 mins run a 10 session on the pick up, solo or whatever. Let the parents watch.
- Mascots for the teams in action. For the smaller kids.
- Mobile GAA museum
This area could open from 12am on the day for the games and be right beside the pitch. It would pay itself if done right and would appeal to a lot of families looking for a day out in the summer if marketed and controlled.
Quote from: Bud Wiser on April 03, 2009, 10:50:02 AM
Well whatever about the rest, Hotels are at the centre of tourism and as such have better marketing structures in place than Croke Park. Last year they advertised the "All-Ireland Club Football Final" on the same day as they hurling final without a mention of the hurling. Agreed, it was the football sponsor that did the add but for jaysus sake why could they not get the same deal for the hurling, another example of the GAA's attitude to hurling. Now, lets say there is racing in Punchestown on Saturday and a hotel want to offer tickets for the races, golf and a match in Croke Park as a package why not give them tickets to do it. For example, if you join the PGA Golf you get free admission to all race meetings in Punchestown, free access to the gym in City West so what is the big deal or big difference in making packages available for hotels and gaa to do the same, we don't all stay in our cousins house or rented flat on the cheap when we come to Dublin to avoid current rates of around 50 euro a night.
Secondly, I said that I was not suggesting big bands but bands that would be better than a few characters doing jigs and reels on a piece of a board. Moving the leinster hurling final out of Croke Park is an idea that reminds me of a local councillor who suggested that where I live we should build apartments along the Dodder river because of the vandals that were there, ie, don't address the real problem, move it.
The idea of crowd involvement is a good one. Maybe now that cars are down to around 20 grand the ticket you buy should give you a chance to drive home a brand new Ford Focus if the GPA will allow.
Personally I don't think the half time entertainment is a runner and wouldn't attract anyone that wasn't already going to the game, the real problem with the Leinster hurling final is that it isn't competitive and therefore of little interest to the general public or indeed many within the competing counties, all the suggestions - good, bad or indifferent won't change that so moving it to a ground more suitable for the crowd expected is, currently as good an idea as any IMO.
If dublin did get to one -you would get a decent crowd- albeit mostly schoolkids. You won't get the adult male football "premiership" dublin football fan going to the hurling but we've thousands of kids playing hurling. Its probably the faster growing sport in dublin (depsite what Tom Mc Gurik and George Hook thnk). You'd easily get thousands of kids from dublin at that alone to get the ball rolling.
Sure kilkenny would probably beat them out the gate- but you have to start somewhere lads. I take Zulu's point but I just think moving a senior final out of croke park wouldn't be a good thing from a status point of view for hurling in general. I think if Galway buy into the leinster championship as well- the crowds may go back. I'd definitely go and watch a galway and kilkenny final and I think a lot of other neutrals would as well.
Quoteall the suggestions - good, bad or indifferent won't change that so moving it to a ground more suitable for the crowd expected is, currently as good an idea as any IMO.
With respect, if you read the last line of the starting post i asked
Quotehow do we fill those seats without moving the game out of Croke Park?
how do we fill more seats in Croke Park without moving games out of it.
Your answer? Move games out of it, fair enough, understood.
I am not just talking about the Leinster Final in hurling and if the slide in attendances is not corrected it will damage the association, in my opinion, it being based on the idea that someone is not going to drive like a lunatic from Kerry or Antrim, rush in the gate and sit looking at a game for one hour and a little bit and then drive home again, something else has to be offered, even if it is only a raffle on your ticket number or hear Christy Moore singing five or six songs.
A lot of things need to change. This mentallity of screwing the punter at any oppurtunity has to stop.
Last week I was in Tuam for the Mayo - Galway game. This was my first time there in 10 years. In 1999 i swore id never set foot in the ground again after the GAA obviously oversold about 10,000 tickets. The ground was heaving and people with tickets had to leave.
Anyway 10 years on, surely things have changed. Well last Sunday the game was delayed because of the crowd not able to get in in time. 6500 people in attendance and they couldnt get them into the ground in time. After paying €13 to get in I reached the stand. Here I was stopped by another queue. Low and behold 2 men were blocking the whole place up collecting another €2 for the privilege of getting into the stand. I wonder where this money ended up.
Lads, I don't think any additional entertainment is going to increase attendances, with all due respect Tyrone and Dublin would have sold out with or without the fireworks.
Before every big european game at Celtic Park, the saw doctors or somebody of equal calibre perform, all in the hope that it will encourage people to come early and avoid gridlock at the turnstiles just before kick off. It never works I'm afraid.
Punters are attracted to sports stadia by the sporting event and sporting event only, i'm afraid. Therefore a novelty appearance in the Leinster Hurling Final by the Dubs (or dare I say it Antrim) might well boost the attendance but not if its Dublin V Wexford or Offaly
Quote from: T Fearon on April 03, 2009, 01:04:58 PM
Lads, I don't think any additional entertainment is going to increase attendances, with all due respect Tyrone and Dublin would have sold out with or without the fireworks.
Before every big european game at Celtic Park, the saw doctors or somebody of equal calibre perform, all in the hope that it will encourage people to come early and avoid gridlock at the turnstiles just before kick off. It never works I'm afraid.
Punters are attracted to sports stadia by the sporting event and sporting event only, i'm afraid. Therefore a novelty appearance in the Leinster Hurling Final by the Dubs (or dare I say it Antrim) might well boost the attendance but not if its Dublin V Wexford or Offaly
Spot. On.
Bud - right about the hotels. Dublin is crawling with foreign tourists every Summer Sunday. I doubt if even one of them knows there's a big game in Croke Park. Cheap tickets at the hotels is a start, but I'd go further and say the GAA should be working with Bord Fáilte or whatever they call themselves now with active promotions. At the VERY LEAST, tourism ads abroad should include Croke Park and GAA footage as well as the mountains, pints of Guinness and donkeys. Guinness's brewery is the No. 1 tourist attraction in the country. Incredible but true. I'd say that's because (a) it's promoted in the tourism marketing and (b) it's something tourists associate with Ireland. See what I mean?
Also, I've been banging the drum for years about a city full of kids watching Merchandise United on the TV or playing their Nintendos while Croke Park is quarter full. How stupid is that, from an organisation whose mission is to promote our sports. It doesn't take much imagination to figure out ways to get them into Croke Park. For one thing, don't charge them, if you know the place is not going to be full. For another, organise some attractions - freebies, give-aways, footballs, jerseys, meet the players, runabouts/games/competitions/bouncy castles on the pitch.
This is not even wheelbarrow science, never mind science of the rocket variety. Is there even a marketing department in Coke Park?
Quote from: Hardy on April 03, 2009, 01:25:35 PM
Bud - right about the hotels. Dublin is crawling with foreign tourists every Summer Sunday. I doubt if even one of them knows there's a big game in Croke Park. Cheap tickets at the hotels is a start, but I'd go further and say the GAA should be working with Bord Fáilte or whatever they call themselves now with active promotions. At the VERY LEAST, tourism ads abroad should include Croke Park and GAA footage as well as the mountains, pints of Guinness and donkeys. Guinness's brewery is the No. 1 tourist attraction in the country. Incredible but true. I'd say that's because (a) it's promoted in the tourism marketing and (b) it's something tourists associate with Ireland. See what I mean?
From today's indepentent
Friday April 03 2009
TOURISM chiefs are planning to use the GAA championship to boost the struggling tourism sector.
This year is expected to be the toughest the industry has experienced since the September 11-influenced downturn in 2001, with numbers of overseas tourists expected to drop due to the global recession.
But Failte Ireland chief executive Shaun Quinn said it was in discussion with the GAA about using its football and hurling matches to boost both domestic and international tourism.
"It is a huge puller and it is one of the unique things we have in this country, not just for ourselves but also for overseas visitors," he said.
The Public Accounts committee heard that Failte Ireland is planning to increase its promotions of 'GAA weekends' so that homegrown fans will be tempted to extend their stay in provincial towns after championship matches.
- Michael Brennan
Quote from: Bud Wiser on April 03, 2009, 10:50:02 AM
Maybe now that cars are down to around 20 grand the ticket you buy should give you a chance to drive home a brand new Ford Focus if the GPA will allow.
A few interesting ideas here, but the one above is a non-runner. No one is going to head to match for a 1 in 30,000 (or whatever the attendance might be) chance of winning a car. It would be a nice b onus for someone attending anyway, but isn't going to attract anyone else.
Its been a long time coming but yes good to see them promoting GAA as a tourist attraction. Don't know why more hasnt been done about it years ago.
If you walked through Dublin airport everywhere its Rugby, Rugby, Rugby, Rugby as if we invented the game. Nothing about our national games. Im bringing 8 foreignors to to Meath Vs Dublin Vs Antrim in June. Most them wouldnt know a gaelic/hurling match if they saw one but they are all looking forward to it.
QuoteFriday April 03 2009
TOURISM chiefs are planning to use the GAA championship to boost the struggling tourism sector.
This year is expected to be the toughest the industry has experienced since the September 11-influenced downturn in 2001, with numbers of overseas tourists expected to drop due to the global recession.
But Failte Ireland chief executive Shaun Quinn said it was in discussion with the GAA about using its football and hurling matches to boost both domestic and international tourism.
"It is a huge puller and it is one of the unique things we have in this country, not just for ourselves but also for overseas visitors," he said.
The Public Accounts committee heard that Failte Ireland is planning to increase its promotions of 'GAA weekends' so that homegrown fans will be tempted to extend their stay in provincial towns after championship matches.
- Michael Brennan
I did not see that article or know it was written before I made the post.
Second thing. I am not advocating by any means, or never said (listen up Mr Fearon) that punters would go to Croke Park to see a band in preference to seeing a game or that if they were not going to go they were not going to go just because a band was playing. What I am saying is that the ones that go deserve an attraction that is additional to the game so lets say for example that Hardstaion did a half hour of his best hits and was really good and the game is a bad game then, instead of saying, "this was a rip off and the game was a joke and I won't be here again" you might have a different view - or at least you have en given a reason to say, well, they tried and it was just a bad game but overall I enjoyed the day.
Croke Park when full and two teams running out onto the sod is an experience that everyone should have. If Croke Park should take the lead in marketing it as a venu as well as it is known for rugby. If anyone thinks for one minute that the crowds will still come to Croke Park this year without an effort being madeto increase the attraction of the games and increase advertising and lower prices they are living in cloud cuckoo land.
Maybe at half time they have a load of lads carrying over sized washing machines, cows, trees and tractors on their backs. :P
Honestly whoever was behind that one needs a stern talking to.
Quote
all the suggestions - good, bad or indifferent won't change that so moving it to a ground more suitable for the crowd expected is, currently as good an idea as any IMO.
With respect, if you read the last line of the starting post i asked
Quote
how do we fill those seats without moving the game out of Croke Park?
how do we fill more seats in Croke Park without moving games out of it.
Your answer? Move games out of it, fair enough, understood.
With respect Bud there are many things we should be doing to promote the various games but if Wexford and Kilkenny made this years Leinster final then it should be moved out of CP because that pairing wouldn't get a crowd if Elvis and Sinatra were the half time entertainment. The only issue would be, as pointed out by Indiana, that the final would be downgraded but a cake walk played out in front of 20K would do that anyway.
On the broader issue there are some good ideas but I think we need to figure out why the crowds aren't coming before we spend money on solutions. I mean even the AI finalists only have 6 or 7 games in the championship yet large numbers of supporters don't travel to every game, why is that? One of the problems is undoubtedly the 'backdoor' but this route offers supporters the chance to watch do or die football against novel oppostion and in novel settings yet it's almost impossible to get the crowds to go, why? The celtic league has grown massively in a few short years but the qualifiers has never grown like it should. Finding out why people don't go to some games is the first step in finding a solution, until we know the results of that I wouldn't be spending any money.
In the meantime the tourist and school populations should be our main target, as these can be easily tapped in the short term.
Quotethat pairing wouldn't get a crowd if Elvis and Sinatra were the half time entertainment. The only issue would be, as pointed out by Indiana, that the final would be downgraded but a cake walk played out in front of 20K would do that anyway.
Maybe we should get Justin Timberlake to expose Janet Jacksons right tit like he did at Super Bowl. But we better think of something. I agree with you Zulu, but, up to now there has not been any effort made. Even a demonstration of coaching skills by the likes of Cody or Mickey Harte that fans could understand what effort goes in by the players, I just do not know. I do know that if it is going to be promoted by the Failte Ireland that American Tourists will not accept a one hour match and out the door.
Basicly what I was hoping for was that each contributor to the board would put forward an idea. If it is the Leinster Final today it will be the All-Ireland Final tomorrow.
I am suprised that they have never really done much about the tourist angle. The St Patrick's day finals are an obvious example, games in both codes and a lot of tourists around, but plenty of room in the stadium. Put a big screen in the baggage area of the airport showing classic games, this would entertain the natives while waiting for bags to appear and might catch the eye of visitors.
I suspect that not everyone knows about family tickets and that these could be promoted better. Season tickets are a good idea, but some other discount mechanism is needed for people that go to every game, these should get a discount at the QF/ SF stage, as distinct from people that appear for the first time on that day (this for spectators, people involved in GAA activity could be dealt with differently).
But there is great conservatism in the GAA, people at the core of decision making are removed from the ticket concerns of people on this board never mind the person coming along for the first time. When anything unusual is done it is derided by the "real" Gaels, the GAA 125 fireworks and washing machine carrying being good examples. If tourists get cheap tickets then the cry will go up that this is cheating the ordinary man who has to pay full price.
I didn't know about family tickets, well I heard about them but I do not know what the deal is and if I don't know then lots more don't know. Apart from the fogra "will the owner of car number SAM2009KY please return to it immediately, what value is got from the surround sound system, surely Christy Moore could plug into it for half an hour and sweat like a pig for us? Something light like an announcement saying 'ladies and gentlemen we have a srprise guest with us here today and we are delighted to introduce xyz who is going to play a few tunes etc' Not something that is advertised to get people to go but to get people to come back.
The biggest single project that should have been undertaken was to make use of the railway line that passes at the back of Hill 16. Wouldn't it be just grand if they had to borrow the machine that dug the tunnels from Dublin Port to Santry and make a small station here. Unlikely now.
I see no support for the Janet Jackson idea either.
If you want to attract a new audience to the GAA, you aren't going to do it with Christy Moore.
Demi Moore then.
To improve attendances (in general - not just CP).
Short term:
1. Drop ticket prices.
2. Move more games out of Croke. The expense of Dublin is farcial - there is also the money spent around the ground to add to the overall cost of the day.
3. As others have mentioned - ensure the league supporter gets tickets for the championship. For the younger generation, this could be done easily by getting tickets online - buying league tickets adds to your account, and gives you purchasing power online for the championship.
For the older generation... not so sure.
4. Don't play provincial matches outside the provinces. Even if it means a shortfall of tickets one match, the scramble adds to the next match.
Long term:
1. Do not build any all-seater stadiums. The proposed casement park farce is a case in point. Total white elephant.
2. Rip out the lower Canal end and have terracing.
3. Quit screwing with the playing rules.
I don't believe any of those long-term proposals would have a positive impact on attendances.
So Radio GAAGAA how many games a year would you like to see in Croke Park then, four?
As regards tickets on line, I bought tickets on line recently for a Man Utd game at Old Trafford. To do so I had to register on their website. Since that game I have got regular emails, another one just now, telling me all about what is happening at Old Trafford and even though I couldn't wait to get out of the place because the only reason I went was to bring my little 7yr old grandson, they make me feel part of it. The GAA have the same Bar Coded tickets as Old Trafford, exactly the same. They should not have to go through other agents. They should have their own personalised website advertising Croke Park Stadium. They should have their own staff who are Irish selling tickets and they should know who is playing, and general information about seating arrangements, additional information etc. They should have a huge database built up and mail shots sent to those that subscribe to receive them but above all they should create a more inclusive type of athmosphere more of a personal touch than they have been providing up to now. If they did this they can easily advertise in advance special offers like Old Trafford do by grading each game, and above all, knowing how many supporters are going to turn up instead of having more security guards than there are on the streets of Dublin - for what reason is another question, half are intimidating and not wanted.
I am not being critical of the current setup, far from it, they have achieved quite a lot but ask 10,000 people do they know who the PRO is, what does he look like or where is his office and you will find that half of them wouldn't have a clue. Company staff outings should be offered whereby if a large company have staff that wanted to go to the game they get a block purchase deal. I know we can't go out with guns and round people up and frog march them into the fecking place but I think we are not doing enough to make Croke Park more Hip-Hop and I do think that it is after we have made a serious marketing effort to get more to a Leinster Final that we nshould look at moving games away from it.
promotion of GAA championships should be tendered out to some PR agency who would get a cut of gate receipts based on attendances. They couldn't do a worse job than the GAA do themselves at the moment
I would be against an outside PR company, it would smack of Ticketmaster type sales. I would not mind a PR company to be contracted in and to set up a stadium database. I wonder what happened to these ideas? (Sunday Business Post 2003)
.....GAA PR gurus liven up Croke Park experience
Sunday, August 31, 2003
By Ian Kehoe
Contemporary Irish music booms around the stadium for 40 minutes before each game.
Six teams of face painters work the ground, decorating hordes of children in county colours. Even the players are heralded onto the pitch to the sound of Fanfare of the Common Man by Emerson, Lake and Palmer. Welcome to the new Croke Park experience.
These are just some of the initiatives of the GAA's new PR and presentation committee to liven up match day presentation at Croke Park. Other additions include live bands, audio-visual demonstrations and half-time entertainment.
"There is a different type of crowd attending Croke Park these days," said Jerry Grogan, the committee's chairman. "A lot more young people and women are coming to matches and we wanted to reflect that. More people than ever go to other international events and they judge us by those standards.
"We are trying to ensure that people will miss something if they don't come to the games. We want to give them something that can't be captured on television. I suppose it is about creating an atmosphere that can be enjoyed by all the family," he said.
Grogan said public response to the changes had been extremely positive and the committee intended to make more changes during its three-year term.
"We have got a lot of support. The Leinster council have provided funds and Cumann na mBunscol are sponsoring the face painting. It is an all-round effort," said Grogan
I'd like to see something to encourage more neutrals to go to matches. While cost is an issue, I think that for all lot of people it is only prohibitive when their own county aren't involved. Many will pay current prices and more to watch their own county without a moment's thought but are more likely to baulk at €20/25 to watch a match between 2 other counties, even though they'd like to go.
I think the current season ticket system is something that needs to be expanded, developed and improved. One way would be allowing the holders of any county's season ticket reduced admission to any championship match. Obviously you'd have to have special arrangements for matches that will be full houses but I think this would be a good way of encouraging people to go to matches in the early rounds of the championship.
QuoteI'd like to see something to encourage more neutrals to go to matches.
Now you are after walloping the nail on the head. The total population of Laois for example is 58,000 including everyone from granny to baby so lets say if every single person of match going age and interest were all to up sticks and head for Croke Park they would not quarter fill it. If Laois and Louth were playing in the Leinster final they would not half fill it and the attraction of the Dub's has been the saviour of Croke Park every year. In fact were it not for the Dubs the stadium could be in trouble and I doubt if any of the corporate boxes will be renewed this year. You are right, more neutrals have to be attracted, by doing something about it, not by talking about it like in the Press Release above and then doing nothing.
As regards moving the Leinster Final out of Croke Park as expressed by others, that is defeatest attitude and is not the solution. Take Dublin Hurlers for example, this years players are a credit to Leinster hurling, I am living on my road for over 35 years in Dublin and the other week I saw two young lads and a young girl on the green space with hurleys. Now, lets say these boys have lived the dream, reached a level they only thought about and in doing so reached the Leinster Final, and for the first time get to play in Croke Park which has been their ambition all along, only to find that they are shifted down the country because they can not get enough to fill it?
The PRO needs to come up with something that will (a) make Croker an attraction in its own right on match days, and (b) think of something like give away flags or hats or face painting for the first few hundred into the ground or something that will get the crowds in earlier.
I still think that if the GAA do not come up with innovative ideas Croke Park will become a fairly big white elephant all too soon. We can't depend on the Dubs and Tyrone for the rest of our lives. The article from the Business Post above suggests they have thought about it before but if they don't think about it again soon they will be closing the door after the horse has bolted. None of the suggestions made in that article were followed up, well not to any great extent. ( I thought Pat Short and fifty or sixty thousand singing along to the Jumbo Breakfeast Roll would have got a blast at it)
Some very good ideas put forward already. For me, some really good pumping music before the game really gets the atmosphere going, especially in Croker. Anything apart form hr ads for Ulster Bank, Vodafone etc. Get eh guy who dies the music for the sports ads on rte to put something togeher. Even the build up to AI football final last year was a good atempt.
Also, for neutrals like myself who like goinG to matches in Croker (Im from longford so not too many games for me!!) have a buy 2 tickets get 1 free incentive for leinster/qualifiers/quarter finals.....might get a few people in who might not have huge interest in gmae but want to go all the same
They have as I said the same ticket printing and management (scanning) system as Old Trafford. What I can't understand is why they don't sell tickets to match the value they give. I bought two Hogan Stand tickets for the Laois Mayo quarter final a few years ago and all I could see was a big barrier right in front of me. This talk about "you have a perfect view from any seat in the stadium is bullshit.
Today, lads under twenty who can't get work had their dole cut in half down to a hundred euro a week. There are pensioners and other deserving supporters that I do not need to explain here who would be entitled to some reduction. Someone said that then supporters who were paying the full amount would complain - so:
Why not section the stadium, why should I pay the same price to sit behind a barrier at the back of the Hogan Stand in the corner down beside the Nally stand where I can see nothing compared to the guy sitting in the front row at the centre of the Hogan. So why not take sections of the stadium like the back rows of the upper tiers, the end sections and seats that are located with what we will call secondary viewing areas. all supporters could still enter through the same gates, same turnstiles and into the same area before going to their seats because the scanners are set to read the barcodes. Then, offer cheaper seats to anyone who wants them, if someone wants to complain, give them cheaper tickets and send them to the cheaper seats as well and make it clear on the back of the ticket that the seat they are sold is the seat they sit in.
I find it strange that the Croke Park Residents who had so much to complain about never complained about the burger trucks/stalls along the roads outside Croke Park. This is great for the Hogan Stand, not the one in Croke Park but the pub along with Gills and other pubs around Croke Park where you will see 'supporters' walking around the roads with pints and burgers in their hands while a minor team are slogging it out in an All-Ireland final. Put the stalls inside Croke Park in the assembly area behind the Cusack and get them inside the gates at least.
When the cats played Waterford in last years Final I was in the Cusack stand and there was a shop there. I asked for a small hurley for my little grandson, just something to bring him home, I can buy them in the shop in Ballyboden on thursday nights, I know, I know, but I wanted to give it to him from Croke Park. Price? €25.00 Lucky I was not a parent with a few young lads and had to listen to "Daddy I want one as well" I could go on and on and on but all I say is that things have to change to where Croke Park becomes a fun day out, an exciting day out and a day out that doesn't leave your family eating out of a big bowl of rice for the following week instead of a nice bit of Irish beef.
Not wanting to start another thread but it has just been announced that there is a €9Million euro cut in sports funding effective immediately. Martin Cullens announcement will have a real impact on GAA in so far as development of local clubs are concerned. What will happen Lucan Sarsfields for example who were promised 240,000 and have planning applications prepared etc?
Quote from: Bud Wiser on April 08, 2009, 11:17:47 AM
Not wanting to start another thread but it has just been announced that there is a €9Million euro cut in sports funding effective immediately. Martin Cullens announcement will have a real impact on GAA in so far as development of local clubs are concerned. What will happen Lucan Sarsfields for example who were promised 240,000 and have planning applications prepared etc?
In this the "Lotto" funding?
We were discussing the "Lotto" funding last night at the club. These Grants given to various sports clubs have already been shelved with no new grants this year (and prob next year) but existing, approved funds will still be paid on completion of said projects. This was announced last year I believe or earlier on in year.
However, my reading of these grants is that this was Lottery funding and not politcal funding. It came from ABC playing the weekly National lottery games and the surplus of these funds was distirbuted and administrated by the sitting Gov at anyone time.
Therefore, where are these funds now going and is it the Govs remit to cut this funding? Is the national now another form of taxation that is going into the running of the country rather than been ring fenced for the "good causes" and funding inititives that it was originally intended for?
Maybe this is a separate topic, if so bud, I'll delete this and repost.
I dont consider it a seperate topic at all bingo. How many times have we heard on this board that clubs throughout the country would be a lot worse off if it wasn't for the money the Dub's created by getting crowds to Croke Park for Leinster Finals and other games. My understanding is that fundis from the Leinster Final are distributed to the provincial councils so in effect, what I am saying is that if 9Million has been knocked off the stack of money that was going to be given from the Sports Council, then there is all the more reason to try and get bigger crowds into Croke Park than there ever was.
Dublin will be the European Capital Sport in 2010, hope the GAA will have something prepared for this so we can promote the games across Europe and gain a wider audience.
What about the crowds at todays games, or lack of them?
Looks like the Football League Finals will have to be moved as well?
20K+ with Kerry, Derry and Cork involved isn't bad, of all the possible finalists for the division 1 and 2 finals we probably got the 3 worst supported teams so 20K isn't bad. Add into the mix the fact we go out of our way to poor mouth it, which I find amazing, and the poor crowds are understandable.
Give home advantage to the team with the highest scoring average.
This means that invariably the stronger teams will get home advantage, but the stronger teams bring less of a crowd so whatever you lose out in terms of travelling support you will gain from the home crowd.
Say if that Monaghan v Cork game was played in Pairc Uí Rinn (although they'd insist on P Uí C) or Clones, you'd get a bigger crowd and a better atmosphere.
I dunno where you could play Kerry and Derry and get a decent crowd to go and watch them.
At this stage, nobody gives a fcuk about winning the leagues so what difference does it make?
The GAA can't be arsed marketing them and managers can't be arsed trying to win them.
And the next manager who demands that his team be let play in Croke Park "because it was built for gaelic games" should be buried up to his neck on the halfway line and left there for a few days.
It devalues Croke Park and it devalues the association to have these glorified training games there.
Croke Park should be used only if the demand is there or for club finals in the various grades and codes.
It's depressing to see the place 3/4 empty for a game.
Quote from: Jinxy on April 26, 2009, 08:24:23 PM
And the next manager who demands that his team be let play in Croke Park "because it was built for gaelic games" should be buried up to his neck on the halfway line and left there for a few days.
It devalues Croke Park and it devalues the association to have these glorified training games there.
Croke Park should be used only if the demand is there or for club finals in the various grades and codes.
It's depressing to see the place 3/4 empty for a game.
You were going ok, up until you tried to justify keeping the club finals in Croker. Surely if you an open HQ for the club finals, you do it for the league final?
If your argument is based on attendance, you have to be consistent.
Anyway, on another note, if they had a proper league set-up, there wouldn't even need to be a final. I've said it before - 3 leagues of 10/11 teams. The team on top at the end of all their games wins the league. No final required.
Clun finals are different in that in terms of relative demand, it will be quite high.
As in, everyone associated with that club will want to go to the game and seeing as the clubs are the backbone of the association then I think it is great to give people a day out.
Aside from the senior club finals, they won't be televised anyway.
I deliberately say relative demand as it is quite clear that demand for tickets amongst the participating counties today was quite low in terms of the numbers that COULD have attended it.
I have no problem with club games, cumman na mbunscoil etc. being played in Croke Park.
These have a huge PR and participation level pay-off.
A 3/4 empty stadium for the league finals does nothing to promote our games.
You could have the best game ever on the field and with no fans there it'll still seem funereal.