After reading the piece in the Irish Times excellent 125th anniversary magazine about the All Ireland final between Kerry and Cavan, the thought struck me that we should consider playing another AI final in the states, New York, Boston, Chicago or San Fransisco would all be possibilities. The boost it would give the games out there, the increased profile that doing so would generate here and elsewhere and the opportunity for fans to travel to the states and take in an AI final would be wonderful. Are there draw backs I'm over looking? The fact that the 47 final is one of the most famous suggests to me that it would be a great thing to repeat and something that would only add to the rich history of the GAA. Any thoughts?
Only if the plane fare is included with the new season ticket.
From a logistical perspective, I don't think it's feasible:
Gaelic park, the Bronx holds about 2k
Gaelic park Chicago, about the same
Canton, Boston - same
San Fran - redeveloped but the same
Unless you were to hold it in Giants Stadium or Soldier field or somewhere..
Well yeah I think if it was to be done it would have to be in an American football field, the Patriots play on a grass field as far as I know and I'm sure there are other suitable locations. A number of college football fields would be big enough as well, finding a location would be the least of our problems I would think.
Quote from: heffo on January 30, 2009, 11:28:21 PM
From a logistical perspective, I don't think it's feasible:
Gaelic park, the Bronx holds about 2k
Gaelic park Chicago, about the same
Canton, Boston - same
San Fran - redeveloped but the same
Unless you were to hold it in Giants Stadium or Soldier field or somewhere..
Given the time of year, Giants Stadium is an impossibility, with the Jets and Giants playing there on alternate Sundays. Giants stadium (or its successor, opening next year) may slightly too short for GAA anyway. There are two new baseball stadiums opening in the city in April, but the AI final coincides with the end of the regular season in baseball, so that might not be a goer either (assuming the fields would be big enough for a GAA match). There are no other realistic options in the NYC area. The Red Bulls are building a new stadium just across in Harrison, NJ, but the capacity will only be about 25,000 and, anyway, a soccer field is far too small.
Would be good for games promotion abroad possibly but will never happen and shoudn't happen. Would be too unfair on fans and players for starters. Considering the length of time between semi final and final it would be impossible to organise. Considering the complaints about it being £8 into recent county games I could only imagine the outcry if a final was held in America.
Sure plenty of the Connacht lads head over to New York for the Connacht championship every second year and it offers the chance for many Irish people to reunite after numerous years away from each other. Obviously it would mean that many Irish people wouldn't get to the final from here but many more from the US could make the final. It would easily sell out a stadium holding 80 - 100,000 people and it would give us massive publicity it the US, which would help the GAA community over there. I think we should definitely look to play league finals and AI finals outside of Ireland every now and again, there is great work being down all around the world by Irish and non-Irish to promote the games, bringing our best players and the biggest occasion in the Irish sporting to their backyard would provide them with a tremendous boost and a fitting reward for the work they do.
England would be a better place for it.
Quote from: Zulu on January 31, 2009, 12:28:30 AM
Sure plenty of the Connacht lads head over to New York for the Connacht championship every second year and it offers the chance for many Irish people to reunite after numerous years away from each other. Obviously it would mean that many Irish people wouldn't get to the final from here but many more from the US could make the final. It would easily sell out a stadium holding 80 - 100,000 people and it would give us massive publicity it the US, which would help the GAA community over there. I think we should definitely look to play league finals and AI finals outside of Ireland every now and again, there is great work being down all around the world by Irish and non-Irish to promote the games, bringing our best players and the biggest occasion in the Irish sporting to their backyard would provide them with a tremendous boost and a fitting reward for the work they do.
Just what is required in the midst of an economic meltdown!
nice idea but Giants stadium and soldier field pitch sizes are way too small i think. NFL pitches are a good bit shorter than GAA piches. thought it might be a good idea to do in england but yo'd have the same problem
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 31, 2009, 08:36:30 AM
Quote from: Zulu on January 31, 2009, 12:28:30 AM
Sure plenty of the Connacht lads head over to New York for the Connacht championship every second year and it offers the chance for many Irish people to reunite after numerous years away from each other. Obviously it would mean that many Irish people wouldn't get to the final from here but many more from the US could make the final. It would easily sell out a stadium holding 80 - 100,000 people and it would give us massive publicity it the US, which would help the GAA community over there. I think we should definitely look to play league finals and AI finals outside of Ireland every now and again, there is great work being down all around the world by Irish and non-Irish to promote the games, bringing our best players and the biggest occasion in the Irish sporting to their backyard would provide them with a tremendous boost and a fitting reward for the work they do.
Just what is required in the midst of an economic meltdown!
Tony, that's the first sensible posting on this thread
Quote from: Zulu on January 31, 2009, 12:28:30 AM
Sure plenty of the Connacht lads head over to New York for the Connacht championship every second year and it offers the chance for many Irish people to reunite after numerous years away from each other. Obviously it would mean that many Irish people wouldn't get to the final from here but many more from the US could make the final. It would easily sell out a stadium holding 80 - 100,000 people and it would give us massive publicity it the US, which would help the GAA community over there. I think we should definitely look to play league finals and AI finals outside of Ireland every now and again, there is great work being down all around the world by Irish and non-Irish to promote the games, bringing our best players and the biggest occasion in the Irish sporting to their backyard would provide them with a tremendous boost and a fitting reward for the work they do.
Yes but them matches are arranged years in advance. Teams know what year they're playing there. People who want to go can orgainse it long in advance and players have time to make arrangements. Not every player could turn around after a semi final and tell there boss they're going to America for a week in 3 weeks time. It would be some hassle for county boards to arrange transport/accomadation and impossible for fans even those who may have attended. Wouldnt be fair on people who follow the team year after year to miss out on an All Ireland final. Nice idea though.
Jesus lads nobody suggested it had to be next years AI, I'd imagine between one thing and another it would take a few years to organize so if the GAA were to even consider it, it is probably 10+ years away. A regular season American football game in London sold out in a few hours there last week and these games are providing a massive boost to the sport in England. I think it would be fitting reward for GAA people in other countries if we could bring the odd AI to their shores and celebrate the biggest day of the year with them. I think some people are delighted we are in a recession because they can now use it as a reason not to do anything, I'm not saying this suggestion is the all singing all dancing idea of the year but we have to look for ways to drive the GAA forward. By the way the last time we did it was just after WW2 so the economic situation was hardly ideal then either.
QuoteYes but them matches are arranged years in advance. Teams know what year they're playing there. People who want to go can orgainse it long in advance and players have time to make arrangements. Not every player could turn around after a semi final and tell there boss they're going to America for a week in 3 weeks time
Well I've addressed this already TD but it appears I didn't expressed myself properly in my original post, I don't mean an AI any time soon but arrange it for a few years from now. Players and CB's who get to AI QF could make preliminary plans around the knowledge the game will be played abroad. I'm not saying it would be without problems but I know some lads who have bought Heino Cup tickets long before they know who will be in it, I'd imagine many GAA fans would do likewise.
Anyway, it won't happen any time soon and some of you have come up with issues that I hadn't considered but despite this I do believe the GAA should do this again sometime in the not too distant future.
Definitely not, the Polo Grounds in 47 is the only thing we have left to gloat about
A league final or even a marquee league game sometime would be really nice.
Selfishly I'd love for them to put it on in the narrow and shortened Red Bull Stadium.
Looks like it will be a great facility and a suitable capacity for one or either of the above.
There was a hardly favourable economic situation in 1947. I'd wait until 2047 when Cavan would be a force and they could win it again
Quote from: Zulu on January 31, 2009, 11:07:17 AM
Jesus lads nobody suggested it had to be next years AI, I'd imagine between one thing and another it would take a few years to organize so if the GAA were to even consider it, it is probably 10+ years away. A regular season American football game in London sold out in a few hours there last week and these games are providing a massive boost to the sport in England. I think it would be fitting reward for GAA people in other countries if we could bring the odd AI to their shores and celebrate the biggest day of the year with them. I think some people are delighted we are in a recession because they can now use it as a reason not to do anything, I'm not saying this suggestion is the all singing all dancing idea of the year but we have to look for ways to drive the GAA forward. By the way the last time we did it was just after WW2 so the economic situation was hardly ideal then either.
QuoteYes but them matches are arranged years in advance. Teams know what year they're playing there. People who want to go can orgainse it long in advance and players have time to make arrangements. Not every player could turn around after a semi final and tell there boss they're going to America for a week in 3 weeks time
Well I've addressed this already TD but it appears I didn't expressed myself properly in my original post, I don't mean an AI any time soon but arrange it for a few years from now. Players and CB's who get to AI QF could make preliminary plans around the knowledge the game will be played abroad. I'm not saying it would be without problems but I know some lads who have bought Heino Cup tickets long before they know who will be in it, I'd imagine many GAA fans would do likewise.
Anyway, it won't happen any time soon and some of you have come up with issues that I hadn't considered but despite this I do believe the GAA should do this again sometime in the not too distant future.
You use the NFL example in Wembley but could you really see them playing the superbowl there? The gaa already play a 'regular season' game in New York similar to the NFL example.
Not during the credit crumch please
I say play the hurling final in it, the rest of us is bored with it anyway.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on February 02, 2009, 09:50:18 PM
I say play the hurling final in it, the rest of us is bored with it anyway.
Promise the Cork strikers a trip to Gaelic Park - they'd love it. Strike over. Take them to baseball game - 3 strikes and they're out.
Play it in Sydney
Quote from: Kevin on February 02, 2009, 08:39:48 PM
A league final or even a marquee league game sometime would be really nice.
That sounds more realistic
Randalls Island has a lovely pitch for gaa, dont know what it holds tho 25-40k at a guess. i'd love to see it happen but it wont
Quote from: magickingdom on February 03, 2009, 07:43:25 PM
Randalls Island has a lovely pitch for gaa, dont know what it holds tho 25-40k at a guess. i'd love to see it happen but it wont
The old stadium was knocked down about six or seven years ago and replaced by a far smalller stadium which caters more for athletics - I'd say it holds 8-10k absolute maximum..
From Wikipedia:
On September 14, 1947, the Polo Grounds hosted the final of the All-Ireland Senior Gaelic Football championship between Cavan and Kerry. It was decided that New York would host this match as a commemoration of the 1847 Irish famine which forced a large number of Irish people to emigrate to America. This novel location for the game was chosen for the benefit of New York's large Irish immigrant population. It was the only time that the final has been played outside of Ireland.
From GAA.ie
Gaelic Games followers in America had for years been pleading for the privilege of seeing the All-Ireland Senior Football Final played in New York. The appearance of Cavan and Kerry at the Polo Grounds in 1947 fulfilled their dream. Motions to have the football final played in New York had been turned down year after year at annual Congress and looked like meeting its usual fate once again until an adjournment was called, during which the delegates were canvassed for support, and shown a letter from an exiled priest appealing that the Gaels of first, second and third generation in the United States be privileged to see the great game in New York. When Congress resumed, the motion was passed and although it transpired subsequently that the heart-rending priest's letter had been a hoax, there were no regrets and everything went off magnificently. The persistent efforts of Canon Hamilton of Clare to have the final played in New York eventually paid off.
With the prospect of a trans-Atlantic trip for the finalists, no championship was ever more eagerly contested, with Cavan, Kerry, Meath and Roscommon winning their respective Provincial Championships. Cavan defeated Roscommon by 2-4 to 0-6 in one semi-final, while Kerry defeated Meath on a score of 1-11 to 0-5 in the other semi-final. The two teams travelled by different means to New York. The Cavan party mainly travelled by air, while their Kerry opponents opted to travel by sea. The victorious Cavan players were later to comment on the advantage of travelling by air as it gave them more time at home with their training and preparation for the final. The Kerry party on the other hand had a much longer journey travelling by sea. The historic game was played on the 14th September in the Polo Grounds, New York, home of the New York Giants Baseball team, on a bone hard dry pitch in blistering sunshine before a disappointing attendance of 34,941. Kerry were the red-hot favourites with the bulk of the attendance.
Kerry took the sensible precaution of wearing white, jockey-type caps as protection against the blazing sun and built up a commanding eight-point lead against a rather nervous Cavan side. The lead would have been much greater if two Kerry goals had not been disallowed and frees given instead. It looked like an easy Kerry victory but then a switch by the Cavan mentors, which did not seem appropriate at the time, was to alter the course of the game. P.J. Duke, a brilliant wing half back, had started the game at midfield but was making no impression, while regular corner back John Wilson filled Duke's wing back berth. Wilson was having a torrid time on the elusive Batt Garvey, who finished the first Kerry goal to the net after a dazzling solo run. The switching of Duke to his usual wing back position alongside his captain John Joe O'Reilly and Simon Deignan saw an immediate tightening up of the Cavan defence and this changed the entire pattern of the game. Deignan incidentally had the unusual distinction of refereeing the Munster Football Final of 1947 which saw Kerry defeat Cork.
Grega O'Connor got through for the second Kerry goal while Cavan eventually got off the mark with a Peter Donohue point. Columba McDyer added a second Cavan point before Kerry edged further ahead with excellent points from Grega O'Connor and Paddy Kennedy to put the Kingdom well in command. The Cavan mentors then made the crucial changes which were to have a profound impact on the game. As Cavan slowly edged their way back into the game an incident involving the flying Cavan half forward Tony Tighe had a major impact on the result. Tighe was heading for the Kerry goal when he was heavily tackled by the Kerry captain Jackie Lyne. The tackle would not have been deemed particularly hard at home but it drew a chorus of booing from the New York crowd. Referee Martin O'Neill from Wexford awarded a free to Cavan but the incident incensed the crowd and their sympathy lay with the Cavan team for the remainder of the game.
The renewed Cavan pressure was telling on the Kerry defence and Mick Higgins. Tighe, Peter Donohue, Joe Stafford and T.P. O'Reilly began to get the scores to whittle down the early Kerry lead. By half time Cavan had forged ahead on a score of 2-5 to 2-4 and eventually won the game on a score of 2-11 to 2-7.
The closing minutes were packed with tremendous excitement as Cavan led by only a single point with five minutes remaining, but the younger and faster Breffni side ended strongly with three points from Donohue (free), midfielder Phil Brady and Higgins.
Peter Donohue's eight points from frees were crucial in securing his side's famous victory. Donohue was later described in the New York press as the babe Ruth of Gaelic Football, probably the highest accolade any sporting individual could receive at the time.
What made Cavan's victory possible, and so memorable, was the superb play of the game's greatest artists of the time, such as John Joe O'Reilly, the red-haired P.J. Duke for his spectacular running out of defence, and the inter-passing speed and skills of Mick Higgins and Tony Tighe.
For Kerry there was the early brilliance of Batt Garvey and Grega O'Connor, the magnificent fielding of Eddie Dowling at midfield until he retired injured, the tireless defensive work of the two Lynes, Dinny and Jackie, and some glimpses of Paddy Kennedy, even though he was nursing an injury and fielded at right corner forward instead of his usual midfield position, which he took over form Dowling before he had to retire himself. Kerry people later expressed the view that had both Dowling and Kennedy been able to play for the full period of the game, victory might well have gone to the Kingdom.
The New York Football Final of 1947 saw the game transmitted live back to Ireland by Radio Eireann with Micheál Ó Hehir providing the commentary. It was to be the legendary broadcaster's most famous match commentary. The broadcast was scheduled for one hour but O'Hehir, on air, pleaded with the authorities not to cut him off but to give "five more minutes" to complete the broadcast of the game. Thankfully the authorities obliged. Fifty years later the GAA authorities approved a proposal to bring the same two teams back to New York, this time to play a normal round of the National Football League to commemorate the historic 1947 final. With the Polo Grounds no longer in use the game was played in Downings Stadium. Travel on this occasion was by air for both teams and many supporters took the occasion to travel to New York to join in the historic event. The game was transmitted live on television by RTE. Kerry gained some revenge for their 1947 defeat with a comfortable victory, with the great Maurice Fitzgerald giving a five-star display of scoring from both play and frees. As in 1947 the organisation of the 1997 commemorate event was another triumph for the GAA in New York.
Quote from: heffo on February 03, 2009, 08:29:56 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on February 03, 2009, 07:43:25 PM
Randalls Island has a lovely pitch for gaa, dont know what it holds tho 25-40k at a guess. i'd love to see it happen but it wont
The old stadium was knocked down about six or seven years ago and replaced by a far smalller stadium which caters more for athletics - I'd say it holds 8-10k absolute maximum..
didnt know that heffo, i know kerry played cavan in a league game there a few years ago. maybe it would be more appropriate to have an annual league game there instead of an all ireland every 100 years. wait till the clamor to have the 2047 all ireland there, whats the betting!
Quote from: Aaron Boone on February 03, 2009, 09:02:20 PM
From Wikipedia:
On September 14, 1947, the Polo Grounds hosted the final of the All-Ireland Senior Gaelic Football championship between Cavan and Kerry. It was decided that New York would host this match as a commemoration of the 1847 Irish famine which forced a large number of Irish people to emigrate to America. This novel location for the game was chosen for the benefit of New York's large Irish immigrant population. It was the only time that the final has been played outside of Ireland.
From GAA.ie
Gaelic Games followers in America had for years been pleading for the privilege of seeing the All-Ireland Senior Football Final played in New York. The appearance of Cavan and Kerry at the Polo Grounds in 1947 fulfilled their dream. Motions to have the football final played in New York had been turned down year after year at annual Congress and looked like meeting its usual fate once again until an adjournment was called, during which the delegates were canvassed for support, and shown a letter from an exiled priest appealing that the Gaels of first, second and third generation in the United States be privileged to see the great game in New York. When Congress resumed, the motion was passed and although it transpired subsequently that the heart-rending priest's letter had been a hoax, there were no regrets and everything went off magnificently. The persistent efforts of Canon Hamilton of Clare to have the final played in New York eventually paid off.
With the prospect of a trans-Atlantic trip for the finalists, no championship was ever more eagerly contested, with Cavan, Kerry, Meath and Roscommon winning their respective Provincial Championships. Cavan defeated Roscommon by 2-4 to 0-6 in one semi-final, while Kerry defeated Meath on a score of 1-11 to 0-5 in the other semi-final. The two teams travelled by different means to New York. The Cavan party mainly travelled by air, while their Kerry opponents opted to travel by sea. The victorious Cavan players were later to comment on the advantage of travelling by air as it gave them more time at home with their training and preparation for the final. The Kerry party on the other hand had a much longer journey travelling by sea. The historic game was played on the 14th September in the Polo Grounds, New York, home of the New York Giants Baseball team, on a bone hard dry pitch in blistering sunshine before a disappointing attendance of 34,941. Kerry were the red-hot favourites with the bulk of the attendance.
Kerry took the sensible precaution of wearing white, jockey-type caps as protection against the blazing sun and built up a commanding eight-point lead against a rather nervous Cavan side. The lead would have been much greater if two Kerry goals had not been disallowed and frees given instead. It looked like an easy Kerry victory but then a switch by the Cavan mentors, which did not seem appropriate at the time, was to alter the course of the game. P.J. Duke, a brilliant wing half back, had started the game at midfield but was making no impression, while regular corner back John Wilson filled Duke's wing back berth. Wilson was having a torrid time on the elusive Batt Garvey, who finished the first Kerry goal to the net after a dazzling solo run. The switching of Duke to his usual wing back position alongside his captain John Joe O'Reilly and Simon Deignan saw an immediate tightening up of the Cavan defence and this changed the entire pattern of the game. Deignan incidentally had the unusual distinction of refereeing the Munster Football Final of 1947 which saw Kerry defeat Cork.
Grega O'Connor got through for the second Kerry goal while Cavan eventually got off the mark with a Peter Donohue point. Columba McDyer added a second Cavan point before Kerry edged further ahead with excellent points from Grega O'Connor and Paddy Kennedy to put the Kingdom well in command. The Cavan mentors then made the crucial changes which were to have a profound impact on the game. As Cavan slowly edged their way back into the game an incident involving the flying Cavan half forward Tony Tighe had a major impact on the result. Tighe was heading for the Kerry goal when he was heavily tackled by the Kerry captain Jackie Lyne. The tackle would not have been deemed particularly hard at home but it drew a chorus of booing from the New York crowd. Referee Martin O'Neill from Wexford awarded a free to Cavan but the incident incensed the crowd and their sympathy lay with the Cavan team for the remainder of the game.
The renewed Cavan pressure was telling on the Kerry defence and Mick Higgins. Tighe, Peter Donohue, Joe Stafford and T.P. O'Reilly began to get the scores to whittle down the early Kerry lead. By half time Cavan had forged ahead on a score of 2-5 to 2-4 and eventually won the game on a score of 2-11 to 2-7.
The closing minutes were packed with tremendous excitement as Cavan led by only a single point with five minutes remaining, but the younger and faster Breffni side ended strongly with three points from Donohue (free), midfielder Phil Brady and Higgins.
Peter Donohue's eight points from frees were crucial in securing his side's famous victory. Donohue was later described in the New York press as the babe Ruth of Gaelic Football, probably the highest accolade any sporting individual could receive at the time.
What made Cavan's victory possible, and so memorable, was the superb play of the game's greatest artists of the time, such as John Joe O'Reilly, the red-haired P.J. Duke for his spectacular running out of defence, and the inter-passing speed and skills of Mick Higgins and Tony Tighe.
For Kerry there was the early brilliance of Batt Garvey and Grega O'Connor, the magnificent fielding of Eddie Dowling at midfield until he retired injured, the tireless defensive work of the two Lynes, Dinny and Jackie, and some glimpses of Paddy Kennedy, even though he was nursing an injury and fielded at right corner forward instead of his usual midfield position, which he took over form Dowling before he had to retire himself. Kerry people later expressed the view that had both Dowling and Kennedy been able to play for the full period of the game, victory might well have gone to the Kingdom.
The New York Football Final of 1947 saw the game transmitted live back to Ireland by Radio Eireann with Micheál Ó Hehir providing the commentary. It was to be the legendary broadcaster's most famous match commentary. The broadcast was scheduled for one hour but O'Hehir, on air, pleaded with the authorities not to cut him off but to give "five more minutes" to complete the broadcast of the game. Thankfully the authorities obliged. Fifty years later the GAA authorities approved a proposal to bring the same two teams back to New York, this time to play a normal round of the National Football League to commemorate the historic 1947 final. With the Polo Grounds no longer in use the game was played in Downings Stadium. Travel on this occasion was by air for both teams and many supporters took the occasion to travel to New York to join in the historic event. The game was transmitted live on television by RTE. Kerry gained some revenge for their 1947 defeat with a comfortable victory, with the great Maurice Fitzgerald giving a five-star display of scoring from both play and frees. As in 1947 the organisation of the 1997 commemorate event was another triumph for the GAA in New York.
I could be wrong but I didn't think that game in the US in 1997 was a league game, rather just a special match organised between the two teams to commemorate the 1947 final. In fact, I can't remember Cavan and Kerry being in the same league division in along time, if ever.
Myles '97 was a league game.
Quote from: orangeman on February 02, 2009, 09:56:25 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on February 02, 2009, 09:50:18 PM
I say play the hurling final in it, the rest of us is bored with it anyway.
Promise the Cork strikers a trip to Gaelic Park - they'd love it.
If they start to behave themselves we could even allow them to come home again.
Quote from: thejuice on January 31, 2009, 08:40:14 AM
nice idea but Giants stadium and soldier field pitch sizes are way too small i think. NFL pitches are a good bit shorter than GAA piches. thought it might be a good idea to do in england but yo'd have the same problem
The field size is a major problem, especially the width. American football pitches are very narrow compared to ours and most of the newer stadia don't leave much room around the sidelines. A baseball stadium would have more room for the pitch and be a more realistic capacity 40-50k.
Quote from: cavan4ever on February 04, 2009, 08:41:46 AM
Myles '97 was a league game.
I stand corrected. Did a search on google there and you are right.