just after watching one of his shows there tonight, how does he do half that stuff?? its baffling!!
Mostly a fantastically fast-acting memory, good backroom team, well practised scenarios and percentages.
Good showman though.
the book is brilliant...
I would be sceptical about that sort of thing, but at the same time would like to believe what he is doing is real. A friend of mine was at one of his shows one night and to pick a member of the audience he threw a frisbee into the crowd, now unless he is unbelievably accurate, it is a great way to show he is picking people at random.
Would really like to see one of his shows for myself.
Quote from: SidelineKick on January 14, 2009, 09:13:15 AM
I would be sceptical about that sort of thing, but at the same time would like to believe what he is doing is real. A friend of mine was at one of his shows one night and to pick a member of the audience he threw a frisbee into the crowd, now unless he is unbelievably accurate, it is a great way to show he is picking people at random.
Would really like to see one of his shows for myself.
Catch a feckin grip of yourself. It's all trickery and he's open about it.
I was watching him a couple of years ago. He went walking down the street and stops a guy and asks him directions. He has a chat with this guy for about 2 minutes. Just as they are about to go there seperate ways he asks the guy for his wallet, cash and anything in his pockets. Yer man just hands them over and walks off. About a minute later the guy comes running after Derren and explains he just handed over his belongings and is not sure why but he'd like them back. So Derren gives them back. Chats for another minute and then tells your man he'll have all them belonging again. The man just hands them over and walks off. Camara follows him down the street 100 yrds when he stops and starts scratching his head looking around him for Derren.
Could have been all a set up I suppose but I expect it was some sort of hypnosis. Unreal power to be yielding on people if it was hypnotism.
I was always of the opinion that the thing he does would be too ridiculous to be a set up. Seen him hand in a losing ticket at the dogs too and convince the woman at the counter it was a winner and she paid him out. She said afterwards she had no idea why she did it! Is he not banned from the casinos in Las Vegas?
Some of the stuff David Blaine does is hard to figure out as well.
I was impressed by the one where he takes the girl watch off her in the street and the next thing its on a mannequin's arm in a (locked and closed) shop window.
Caught the end of last night's show - looked pretty convincing. Hard to know what to think. He involved that many people in the audience that if they were all planted, there would have only been about 10 paying customers! It's hard to comprehend how he had the 4 digit number right, given that it was the sum of what should have been a selection of random numbers.
Quote from: ONeill on January 14, 2009, 10:44:22 AM
Quote from: SidelineKick on January 14, 2009, 09:13:15 AM
I would be sceptical about that sort of thing, but at the same time would like to believe what he is doing is real. A friend of mine was at one of his shows one night and to pick a member of the audience he threw a frisbee into the crowd, now unless he is unbelievably accurate, it is a great way to show he is picking people at random.
Would really like to see one of his shows for myself.
Catch a feckin grip of yourself. It's all trickery and he's open about it.
::)
Some of the stuff he does can not be classified as trickery.
Christ almighty - what do you think it is? You surely don't believe in magic at your age? If you do, give me a shout. I have a large bridge in New York for sale.
Quote from: heganboy on January 14, 2009, 03:52:58 AM
the book is brilliant...
I've just ordered it, but if this is some kind of trick Heganboy then you're in a lotta trouble mister.
Quote from: Hardy on January 14, 2009, 11:52:12 AM
Christ almighty - what do you think it is? You surely don't believe in magic at your age? If you do, give me a shout. I have a large bridge in New York for sale.
How do you know what age I am?
I don't. Do you believe in magic at your age?
No :D
But some of the things he does have no logical explanation, yes like some "magic" ticks ok ok. I still find him highly entertaining and alot more impressive than your normal magicians.
My da did once pull a 10p from my ear though, explain that one :P
I thought it was a good show too.
Not to be too pedantic, but everything he does HAS a logical explanation. It's just that we don't know what it is.
Well I suppose this is one of them times where I'll have to hold the old hands up!
Reach for the sky!
Quote from: SidelineKick on January 14, 2009, 12:23:13 PM
No :D
But some of the things he does have no logical explanation, yes like some "magic" ticks ok ok. I still find him highly entertaining and alot more impressive than your normal magicians.
My da did once pull a 10p from my ear though, explain that one :P
You have really big lugholes?
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 14, 2009, 12:58:32 PM
Quote from: SidelineKick on January 14, 2009, 12:23:13 PM
No :D
But some of the things he does have no logical explanation, yes like some "magic" ticks ok ok. I still find him highly entertaining and alot more impressive than your normal magicians.
My da did once pull a 10p from my ear though, explain that one :P
You have really big lugholes?
Thats a separate issue, I know there were no 10p's in it before that.
Quote from: Hardy on January 14, 2009, 11:52:12 AM
Christ almighty - what do you think it is? You surely don't believe in magic at your age? If you do, give me a shout. I have a large bridge in New York for sale.
You may be confusing magic/trickery with hypnotism/persuasion.
I'm talking about overt persuasion rather that actual subliminal which is more difficult to detect.
A person, who successfully and overtly hypnotises/persuades a member of the public to do something way outside their normal experience, is using an aspect of psychic ability in order to execute the act of persuasion.
But if the subject is not susceptible enough, then it can only happen with permission. In other words, if a persons rationality is stronger than the other's power of persuasion/hypnotism, then it can be prevented.
QuoteNot to be too pedantic, but everything he does HAS a logical explanation. It's just that we don't know what it is.
Magic can be explained by demonstrating the mechanics of the act and/or it being explained in a logical manner.
Can the same tools be used to demonstrate the cause and effect of psychic phenomena like hypnotism and the alleged effect of subliminal messages.
Possibly this is why much of the so called science community reject the effects of subliminal messages as placebo or having absolutly no effect..
Think about that for a second. Placebo is a concious experience, subliminal is sub concious. ???
There is widespread use of faulty logic used to dismiss the rationality of some psychic phenomen.
Much of Brown's work is memory, deduction and trickery. For example, the questions he took out of a bowl were put there at the half time interval (an extremely long one) by the audience 2 by 2. Every now and again a member of his team (who was organising the queue) would shuffle the cards. No doubt he was nabbing a few and getting them back to Brown who'd speed memorise as many as possible. The table trick was crap.
He has excellent perception when it comes to those who are susceptible to mild hypnosis. I remember a girl saying he convinced her her favourite jumper was green when it was blue whilst on stage, through speed of questioning and controlling her responses.
I'm convinced there are no plants in the crowd but that doesn't matter when you've practised as hard as he has and mastered the art of percentages and memory.
I wonder what powers of persuasion were used last season to transform an average underperforming team like Tyrone into champion class midstream?
Quote from: ONeill on January 14, 2009, 02:49:16 PM
Much of Brown's work is memory, deduction and trickery. For example, the questions he took out of a bowl were put there at the half time interval (an extremely long one) by the audience 2 by 2. Every now and again a member of his team (who was organising the queue) would shuffle the cards. No doubt he was nabbing a few and getting them back to Brown who'd speed memorise as many as possible. The table trick was crap.
He has excellent perception when it comes to those who are susceptible to mild hypnosis. I remember a girl saying he convinced her her favourite jumper was green when it was blue whilst on stage, through speed of questioning and controlling her responses.
I'm convinced there are no plants in the crowd but that doesn't matter when you've practised as hard as he has and mastered the art of percentages and memory.
Probably agree with that summary.
On the "Most famous person you've met" thread take a look at my comment, just curious!
Quote from: ONeill on January 14, 2009, 02:49:16 PM
He has excellent perception when it comes to those who are susceptible to mild hypnosis. I remember a girl saying he convinced her her favourite jumper was green when it was blue whilst on stage, through speed of questioning and controlling her responses.
I bet the dirty fecker uses the old trickery to convince girls to do more than think their favourite jumper is green ;)
Quote from: thebigfella on January 14, 2009, 03:19:19 PM
Quote from: ONeill on January 14, 2009, 02:49:16 PM
He has excellent perception when it comes to those who are susceptible to mild hypnosis. I remember a girl saying he convinced her her favourite jumper was green when it was blue whilst on stage, through speed of questioning and controlling her responses.
I bet the dirty fecker uses the old trickery to convince girls to do more than think their favourite jumper is green ;)
Methinks not , he bats for the other side
Quote from: Newbridge Exile on January 14, 2009, 03:22:41 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on January 14, 2009, 03:19:19 PM
Quote from: ONeill on January 14, 2009, 02:49:16 PM
He has excellent perception when it comes to those who are susceptible to mild hypnosis. I remember a girl saying he convinced her her favourite jumper was green when it was blue whilst on stage, through speed of questioning and controlling her responses.
I bet the dirty fecker uses the old trickery to convince girls to do more than think their favourite jumper is green ;)
Methinks not , he bats for the other side
Maybe he could convince you that you too batted for the other side - nasty!
Quote from: mylestheslasher on January 14, 2009, 03:31:42 PM
Quote from: Newbridge Exile on January 14, 2009, 03:22:41 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on January 14, 2009, 03:19:19 PM
Quote from: ONeill on January 14, 2009, 02:49:16 PM
He has excellent perception when it comes to those who are susceptible to mild hypnosis. I remember a girl saying he convinced her her favourite jumper was green when it was blue whilst on stage, through speed of questioning and controlling her responses.
I bet the dirty fecker uses the old trickery to convince girls to do more than think their favourite jumper is green ;)
Methinks not , he bats for the other side
Maybe he could convince you that you too batted for the other side - nasty!
Lets hope he doesnt attempt any sword swallowiing tricks on his show then.....
Indeed. He wouldn't want a c**k-up on his show...or would he?
I met him at JFK airport in New York in early 2005 and he told me my football team would lose 3 times to Tyrone.
Of course it was a load of auld shite he was talking about as no such thing has happened. I don't believe in that old hypnosis shite, but why am I wearing a mini-skirt today.
I downloaded his first series yesterday and had a look at his first show from Trick of the Mind Season 1
London taxi driver gets lost taking Derren to the London Eye the equivalent of getting in to a taxi in Dublin's Parnells sq and asking the driver to take you to the GPO.
Cat playing with a mouse. Derren had the Cabbie's memory parked away in a dark spot in no time.
In beating 4 out of a mix of 7 chess masters/fides/expert in a simultaneous games of chess, he used fascinating tactics that the masters did not cop on to. Derren actually beat one of the chess expert using his own skills applied to his rusty chess technique..
But
In the street a random person reading the thought of another random person.
Here a random girl put her hand on random mans head and read accurately the name of the man's friend
For Derren to interfere/be aware in some way with the results of that process or the likely outcome,
he would have had to be aware of the subliminal messages of the surrounding area in the street,
he would have to have a practiced awareness how subliminal messages affect his thinking/images process.
By having a practised awareness of how subliminal messages affect him, he is able to have a conscious awareness of what is recorded by the subconscious.
The random man was asked to think of the name of one of his friends, the man's selection of his friend's name is influenced by the images from his surroundings,
the random girl was asked to read the random man's thought,
the girl herself is also influenced by the subliminal images and the when she closed her eyes to read the mans thought the image which comes to her mind is similar to what the man experienced when he closed his eye when he first went through the mental process of selecting the name..
For Derren to do all this requires a much more than active smart intellectual/memory activity but an ability to be aware to a high enough degree of the activity in his subconscious and a well tuned belief in the activity of his intuition.
Overall, this type of sub conscious / subliminal /intuitive activity is denied by about half of the so called scientific community.
Mentalism and NLP. If you dedicated your life to it and practiced to the hilt, even you MS could possibly master it.
Reminds me of the story about Uri geller when he first came on the scene yeasrs ago. Believe it or not Time magazine said that they would put him on the cover of the magazine if he could convince them of his powers. Needless to say the not to publicity shy Uri was in the offices straight away, bending spoons, reading peoples minds and doing all sorts of psychic stuff which he claimed were from a divine unknown source.
He left the offices with everyone convinced he was the real deal and fully expecting to see his mug on the front cover, unfortunately for him the editor then brought in a guy called James Randi who proceeded to bend spoons, stop clocks read peoples minds etc the exact same as Uri and all by simple magic tricks. At the end of it he said that he couldn't prove Uri wasn't doing these using supernatural powers but that if he was he was sure going about it the difficult way :D
Derren Brown is a magaican pure and simple, what he does is mix a bit of psycho babble about reading body language and other such bumpf with good old fashioned magic tricks. He just the first to notice the gap in the market for this particular spin out of the magic trick.
Quote from: ONeill on January 15, 2009, 02:14:40 PM
Mentalism and NLP. If you dedicated your life to it and practiced to the hilt, even you MS could possibly master it.
Why would you be inspired to offer a condescending remark? Is that to somehow straighten the point you want to express?
Mentalism, as an explanation for the incident I explained, is usually offered principally by people who deny the effect of subliminal images on the subconscious.
It does not explain the incident I outlined in detail.
I am not offering a hokus pokus explanation of how Derren can interpret subliminal images and make it appear as if one person can read another's thought.
Subliminal activity can be explained scientifically, but it is the science of intuitive activity, nothing mysterious about that at all.
Jaysus you're a wile sensitive fellow. (Derren could help with that)
Let me rephrase it to avoid offence -
If I dedicated my life to it and practiced to the hilt, even I could possibly master it.
The Chess trick was all memory MS. He had 7 chess masters and used his memory to mimic the moves they were doing against eachoher. In effect 3 chess masters were playing 3 chess masters through him. He then he said he played the last chess master himself.and lost.
Quote from: screenexile on January 15, 2009, 02:50:24 PM
The Chess trick was all memory MS. He had 7 chess masters and used his memory to mimic the moves they were doing against eachoher. In effect 3 chess masters were playing 3 chess masters through him. He then he said he played the last chess master himself.and lost.
I understand that it was mostly memory, a fantastic picture memory, I didn't indicate otherwise (or even subliminally indicate).
But as I just watched that episode last night I do not need a fantastic memory :) to recall that he beat the president of the Chess Society Kings College in the 9th game.
The president said that it was similar experience to playing a chess master.
That was the game that Derren said he played "fairly" and won.
However, I am curious about how he came up with an almost perfect prediction of the number of pieces left on the board by his opponents at the end of each of their games.
Derren says mischievously that he genuinely can't remember how he worked that one out
Quote from: delboy on January 15, 2009, 02:16:01 PM
Reminds me of the story about Uri geller when he first came on the scene yeasrs ago. Believe it or not Time magazine said that they would put him on the cover of the magazine if he could convince them of his powers. Needless to say the not to publicity shy Uri was in the offices straight away, bending spoons, reading peoples minds and doing all sorts of psychic stuff which he claimed were from a divine unknown source.
He left the offices with everyone convinced he was the real deal and fully expecting to see his mug on the front cover, unfortunately for him the editor then brought in a guy called James Randi who proceeded to bend spoons, stop clocks read peoples minds etc the exact same as Uri and all by simple magic tricks. At the end of it he said that he couldn't prove Uri wasn't doing these using supernatural powers but that if he was he was sure going about it the difficult way :D
Derren Brown is a magaican pure and simple, what he does is mix a bit of psycho babble about reading body language and other such bumpf with good old fashioned magic tricks. He just the first to notice the gap in the market for this particular spin out of the magic trick.
I admire James Randi's work (www.randi.org). The world needs more like him. Check out the Million Dollar Challenge. Scepticism should be the rational being's default position. It's the willingness of people to believe any ould shite that allows frauds and conmen like Geller to prosper, willingly aided by the media.
Main Street - what do you mean by "the so called scientific community"?
QuoteMain Street - what do you mean by "the so called scientific community"?
I'd be interested in this too - I've been calling myself a scientist since I got that oul' degree, what should I be calling myself?
Quote from: Billys Boots on January 15, 2009, 04:56:12 PM
QuoteMain Street - what do you mean by "the so called scientific community"?
I'd be interested in this too - I've been calling myself a scientist since I got that oul' degree, what should I be calling myself?
You'd get a lot more respect in our society (and certainly make a lot more money) if you called yourself (and remember that's all you'd have to do - call yourself one) a reflexologist or a feng shui consultant or made your living codding people that you can cure their toothache by giving them a candle to smell or something.
Quote from: Billys Boots on January 15, 2009, 04:56:12 PM
QuoteMain Street - what do you mean by "the so called scientific community"?
I'd be interested in this too - I've been calling myself a scientist since I got that oul' degree, what should I be calling myself?
My comments are not directed in general.
The so called scientific community I referred to are those type of academics and/or charlatans who for different reasons claim to use a a scientific methodology to deny the rationality used to explain an event.
My reference was to the subliminal effect on the conscious mind. There are those who claim a place in the scientific community (as in doing research and getting research published in journals) who deny the effect of subliminal advertising but instead claim the subliminal phenonoma is a placebo effect. The split in those scientific circles is about 50/50 on that issue.
Imo that is an example of simply astonishing rigidity reflected in defective analysis.
Placebo is the effect from a conscious action. Subliminal, even in the simplest understanding of the idea, is sub conscious storage of images/sounds which do effect our conscious thought process.
I have no special grá for Derren Brown. What Derren does, does not prove or disprove anything unless he subjects some of his work to an objective situation outside of his control. I have only seen one of his shows, edited and fine tuned for my entertainment.
However I remember I saw one test ages ago (and now I realise it must have been Derren) that he did with some advertising honchos and he was able to manipulate each of them separtly to compose a similar looking brochure for a Zoo (to attract children to it) just by being aware of the sights along the journey they would take in order to reach the tv studio. Not only that but arising from his awareness of the sights along the way he predicted the brochure design and graphics they would use before hand.
The advertising honchos were suitably stunned, awed and speechless that they too were "victims" of manipulated subliminal activity.
I saw that episode with the ad for the zoo, it was very well done. And to be fair to Brown, he's pretty open about how he uses visual "cue cards" and suggestion to get people to do what he wants.
did you ever have a magic trick explained to you . my 1st reaction always is ' well thats a load of shit' and would have been much happier kept in awe.
worst one ive seen was david copperfield making a space shuttle disappear all he did was move the camera and the whoke crowd of about 100 people were in on it .
so I wouldn't be suprised if all derrens browns audience were plants. and there are also many old foutune telling tricks where you actually tell the gypsy more than they tell you.
My advice is keep your innocence dont think too much about it and enjoy the show .
its just entertainment after all Tom and jerry are just dabs of ink but they're still funny
Quote from: rosnarun on January 15, 2009, 09:48:56 PM
after all Tom and jerry are just dabs of ink
Aye, right. Wise up.
Quote from: Orior on January 14, 2009, 11:55:06 AM
Quote from: heganboy on January 14, 2009, 03:52:58 AM
the book is brilliant...
I've just ordered it, but if this is some kind of trick Heganboy then you're in a lotta trouble mister.
It's excellent. Highly entertaining with some very lucid puncturing of nonsense such as homeopathy, psychic readin and NLP.
Quote from: rosnarun on January 15, 2009, 09:48:56 PM
did you ever have a magic trick explained to you . my 1st reaction always is ' well thats a load of shit' and would have been much happier kept in awe.
worst one ive seen was david copperfield making a space shuttle disappear all he did was move the camera and the whoke crowd of about 100 people were in on it .
I've seen those (the "masked magician" etc) and yeah that Copperfield one is definitely the worst.
Which reminds me...
Quote from: 5 Sams on January 14, 2009, 11:24:38 AM
Some of the stuff David Blaine does is hard to figure out as well.
I was impressed by the one where he takes the girl watch off her in the street and the next thing its on a mannequin's arm in a (locked and closed) shop window.
...this trick is pretty dire too - he simply passes the watch to one of his crew who take it into the shop (the shop owners being in on the trick).
Just seen it on E4. Was the guy that won the house in France Tony?
I think Uri Geller has or had some capacity, hidden away behind the schmaltz.
In some ways he could even be compared to the miracle guru Jesus.
Uri acknowledges that, whatever talent he has, are gifts, that he has been the recipient of a gift but he is the recipient of that gift because he is so special, so spiritually evolved ::)
The problem with most of these guys (public performers) is that they get addicted to the applause and to the adulation on being so "special".
Some of them like Uri might have had something for some space in time and then lost that ability, but didn't lose the limitless hunger to be in the spotlight to be recognised for being the truly gifted people that they think they are.
Take it to the ultimate, a truly gifted intellect, a capacity to read and comprehend the old spiritual scriptures, an undoubted charisma and you have the makings of a cult.
Possibly like Sai Baba, the closest modern example to Jesus? but we don't have the benefit of frame by frame analysis of the "miracles" back in the day.
Uri Geller is just a conjurer, MS.
[Edit] - thought I'd better edit that to comply with board rules.
Hardy, I've just sent you a subliminal message.
-
He is a wizard. End of argument.
Quote from: Orior on January 14, 2009, 11:55:06 AM
Quote from: heganboy on January 14, 2009, 03:52:58 AM
the book is brilliant...
I've just ordered it, but if this is some kind of trick Heganboy then you're in a lotta trouble mister.
My book arrived today, in a parcel. How did he do that?
i ordered the book last week. it hasn't arrived yet.
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/207/461436344_5b7771c440.jpg)
Just got an email to say i didn't want the book at all. they were right. can't believe it.
That's strange Uladh. I got an email this morning saying everyone on the gaaboard is talking about the book, but I shouldn't buy it.
Quote from: Uladh on January 20, 2009, 12:28:28 PM
Just got an email to say i didn't want the book at all. they were right. can't believe it.
It's £4.99 at Waterstones, but don't buy it if you're a student cuz you'll get another 10% off
Derren is on now doing an experiment,The Assassin
Hypnotising someone so that they will kill someone and forget he actually did it.
First question is hypnosis real?
Has anyone here been hypnotised?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2011, 09:42:43 PM
Derren is on now doing an experiment,The Assassin
Hypnotising someone so that they will kill someone and forget he actually they did it.
First question is hypnosis real?
Has anyone here been hypnotised?
The father in law reckons he couldn't be hypnotised. He is teetotal and once said if he drank a bottle of whiskey he couldn't be made drunk as it's mind over matter!
I believe some people can be, but most can't. I'd really need to see someone I know hypnotised and trust before I believe it a hundred percent
I'd say it absolutely could, missed Derren brown last night, was it any good?
Was good, i'm a bit sceptic but enjoyed it.
When involved with a hypnotist the person being hypnotised has to want to be hypnotised. If they are sceptical or don't buy in to it then it won't work.