http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/18112008/58/int-football-fist-butcher-threatens-maradona.html
Scotland's assistant manager Terry Butcher has said he will never forgive Diego Maradona for his Hand of God goal at the 1986 World Cup.
Butcher was part of the England side that lost the infamous quarter-final 2-1 to Argentina, as Maradona scored with a clear handball before adding a magnificent solo run.
The former defender said he was still angry with Maradona, who coaches the Argentina team that play Scotland at Hampden on Wednesday, and even joked that he might use the "fist of Terry Butcher" to exact revenge.
"I can never forgive him for what he did. It was probably the best chance England had of winning the World Cup since 1966," said Butcher.
"At the end of the day it is not nice when you lose a World Cup quarter-final under those circumstances. It's very hard to forgive and forget in the circumstances.
"But it was 22 years ago. I think I'm 4-1 to get a red card in the tunnel - it would be the fist of Terry Butcher rather than the hand!"
Butcher also revealed that he encountered Maradona after the game when the pair were required to do drugs tests along with his England team-mates Gary Stevens and Kenny Sansom, and the Argentinian claimed he had not handled the ball.
"It could have been a warzone in there but it wasn't. I wasn't next to him; if I was I might have done something. I would pay a few thousand pounds to be in that drugs room again if I knew he was going to be in there," Butcher said.
"He came in and celebrated. He was the last person you wanted to see because, remember, he had also scored a wonderful goal on the way to which he beat me twice. I felt it more than anybody else.
"When I signalled to him about the head or the hand, he pointed to his head. Maybe that was because it was a small room and there were three Englishmen, not very happy, so he probably took the safe option.
"But that irritated me even more. If he had come in and said 'It was my hand, I apologise' then I would have only [wanted to] hit him four or five times instead of 20."
The Scotland assistant said he wanted to concentrate on Wednesday's match, and predicted that the home side could cause an upset.
"Scotland have traditionally done well as underdogs against the top sides," he said.
"It is like when teams play the big four down south or the Old Firm in Scotland, you play above yourself because you do not want to get smashed.
"The spotlight is on us at home so we have to adapt with the players we have here. The key thing is adapting quickly and wanting to play on the big stage.
"These are the games that can forge reputations but doing well or scoring a goal; they will remember that for the rest of their lives but other people will remember it too. It is a big thing for the Scotland squad.
"It is not a case of feeling inferior, it is a case of going out and being the ones in the spotlight."
Good to see men in the medias spotlight just saying how he feels instead of saying what is expected of him! Thats a long grudge all the same! My favourite part:
"If he had come in and said 'It was my hand, I apologise' then I would have only [wanted to] hit him four or five times instead of 20."
:D
I'd still be pissed off if it happened against Ireland
its a long grudge to hold but i cant argue with him. I'm also glad that he is able to come out and say what he actually feels...
the wee man would have found another way to win it anyway ;)
In fairness to Butcher my opinion of him went up considerably when he went against the omerta of English commentators and called Steven Gerrard a cheat for his diving antics.
Good to see the 'hard man' image is alive and well ::)
QuoteIn fairness to Butcher my opinion of him went up considerably when he went against the omerta of English commentators and called Steven Gerrard a cheat for his diving antics.
Good man OtB, but you don't like Dunphy for making similar points about Ronaldo. :P
QuoteIn fairness to Butcher my opinion of him went up considerably when he went against the omerta of English commentators and called Steven Gerrard a cheat for his diving antics.
Good man OtB, but you don't like Dunphy for making similar points about Ronaldo.
Ronaldo gets plenty of criticism, some deserved, from all quarters of the media & press. With Gerrard it's almost a taboo subject. Why do you think this is?
It certainly isn't with me - for me, what's even less forgiveable about Gerrard is that when nothing's on, he'll still try a 50 yard pass. I'd love to see the stats on his completed passes - if I was interested enough (or had enough time) to look.
What an angry old man ! ;) :D
Quote from: Over the Bar on November 18, 2008, 10:13:41 AM
In fairness to Butcher my opinion of him went up considerably when he went against the omerta of English commentators and called Steven Gerrard a cheat for his diving antics.
He went up in your estimation because it was Gerrard, he would have went down in your estimation if he had said the same about Rooney.
Rather than talk a good fight 22 years later perhaps Butcher should have tried to stop Maradona walking round him for the second goal. That's the one that really hurts I think.
If i was Butcher i would ask Peter Shilton how a midget out jumped him for the "Hand Of God" goal.
QuoteIf i was Butcher i would ask Peter Shilton how a midget out jumped him for the "Hand Of God" goal.
:D ;D
QuoteHe went up in your estimation because it was Gerrard, he would have went down in your estimation if he had said the same about Rooney.
Not so. Anyone who pulls on an England shirt is equally distainful
I'd imagine munster fans feel the same about neil back
Not to mention the 2003 Marsden Jordan incident... whoops, I just did.
Quote from: Orior on November 18, 2008, 12:05:35 PM
Not to mention the 2003 Marsden Jordan incident... whoops, I just did.
Dont forget 1977. Somethings bound to have happened in that game too.
QuoteDont forget 1977. Somethings bound to have happened in that game too
also 1984 and how ref didnt send Frank McGuigan off for too many dummy solos.......
Quote from: magpie seanie on November 18, 2008, 10:51:20 AM
Rather than talk a good fight 22 years later perhaps Butcher should have tried to stop Maradona walking round him for the second goal. That's the one that really hurts I think.
I'd say you are bang on the money there - always thought of Butcher as a little Englander, can imagine been danced around by a diminutive Argie, and having him outjump Shilts and cheat them really killed him, and he has never been able to move beyond it. I've never been able to feel any empathy for him, although the point about Neil Back is well made. On the other side I saw this story on the beeb this morning:
Quote
Adam Brown, a 13-year-old ball boy at Celtic Park, is presented with Argentina coach Diego Maradona's hat and gloves after finding a missing necklace during training for Wednesday's game against Scotland.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/7734876.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/7734876.stm)
Quotealways thought of Butcher as a little Englander, can imagine been danced around by a diminutive Argie, and having him outjump Shilts and cheat them really killed him, and he has never been able to move beyond it.
Yeah, you could have seen Butcher in the Falklands a few years beforehand if he hadn't been a pro footballer.
Quote from: magpie seanie on November 18, 2008, 12:32:27 PM
Quotealways thought of Butcher as a little Englander, can imagine been danced around by a diminutive Argie, and having him outjump Shilts and cheat them really killed him, and he has never been able to move beyond it.
Yeah, you could have seen Butcher in the Falklands a few years beforehand if he hadn't been a pro footballer.
Despite being born in Singapore, or maybe becuase of it, he comes over as being more British than British.
Butchers some nob, good to see it still gets to him.
But why are they still crying about it?? deliberately handling the ball to score is no worse than deliberately diving to earn a penalty, which several England players have done over the years, one time Michael Owen did it versus Argentina in a major tournament, but you dont here Argentina bitching about it.
The English seem to have it in their head that thats the only thing that stopped them winning the 86 world cup.
Complete bollox.
I'm glad Butchers is still bitter and acting like a thug over it.
Nobody outside the UK knows who Butchers even is, unlike Maradona.
QuoteButcher also revealed that he encountered Maradona after the game when the pair were required to do drugs tests along with his England team-mates Gary Stevens and Kenny Sansom, and the Argentinian claimed he had not handled the ball.
"It could have been a warzone in there but it wasn't. I wasn't next to him; if I was I might have done something. I would pay a few thousand pounds to be in that drugs room again if I knew he was going to be in there," Butcher said.
So basically he had his chance to do what he said he'd love to do and didn't take it. A hold me back merchant if ever i saw one. I reckon Maradona wouda left him on his hole in a scrap as well as on the pitch.
As an aside, do the taff's go on like this about Joe Jordans H.O.G effort?
I'm still sore over the traitor Roy Keane walking out on Ireland in Saipan in 2002.
:plantstimebombsitsbackandhopestostartarguments:
I will never forget the day Sligo won the All-Ireland.
Quote from: bingobus on November 18, 2008, 04:13:57 PM
I'm still sore over the traitor Roy Keane walking out on Ireland in Saipan in 2002.
:
Agreed
(http://wathiifm.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/hand_of_god_goal-orig.jpg)
(http://www.thefa.com/NR/rdonlyres/65D528CE-4D27-4C66-9011-2594FBB2A5ED/117126/Maradona_goal_H.jpg)
Two best goals i ever saw!!
Quote from: Aghdavoyle on November 18, 2008, 11:55:58 AM
I'd imagine munster fans feel the same about neil back
before Dinny Breen gets in with this ....
to be fair munster (and Ireland) have more than got this repaid back through the continued selection of alan quinlan.
the guy cant but cheat every game he plays...
he's that bad he should be south african by birth :o
Quote
Maradona shrugs off Butcher snub
New Argentina boss Diego Maradona will not lose any sleep if Terry Butcher refuses to shake his hand at Hampden.
Scotland assistant Butcher said he will never forgive Maradona for the infamous "Hand of God" goal which helped knock England out of the 1986 World Cup.
"No, I will not seek him out," Maradona said. "I don't understand why Butcher has this attitude.
"England won a World Cup with a goal that never crossed the line, so it's not fair that people should judge me."
Maradona has received a warm welcome in Scotland as he prepares for his first game in charge of the national team.
However, former England captain Butcher was not in the mood to join in with the adulation for one of the game's greatest ever players.
"If people are fine with me, I'll greet them," added Maradona.
"Let Butcher get on with his life and I'll get on with my life.
"I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. If Butcher doesn't shake my hand, I'll still be alive tomorrow."
Maradona scored his first international goal at Hampden in a 3-1 win at Hampden in 1979 and the Argentine legend has fond memories of Glasgow.
His virtuoso performance won him many fans in Scotland, while his role in eliminating England from the World Cup in Mexico may have added to his list of admirers north of the border.
"I am very much aware of how popular I am and it's great to think I've made them very happy," said Maradona when asked about his relationship with Scottish supporters.
"If I get the chance to make them happy again, that would be marvellous.
"It's something that was very special to me. It was nice to start my international career and get my first goal here.
"What I want to do in terms of repaying them is hopefully put on a good spectacle.
"I feel great. I feel very good. I'm very happy to be back in Scotland after so long away.
"It's a very, very proud moment for me to be heading up the Argentina national side."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/internationals/7736200.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/internationals/7736200.stm)
Quote
"England won a World Cup with a goal that never crossed the line
I love Maradona
bet maradonas worried about that alright ;) butchers a baby and i wonder has his grudge got anything to do with maradona other goal (when he passed butcher twice). bet he'd have no problem if england stole the game
Quote from: Doogie Browser on November 18, 2008, 05:41:03 PM
Quote
"England won a World Cup with a goal that never crossed the line
I love Maradona
:D
Fair play to Terry Butcher for being brutally honest. If Maradonna had done it against Ireland - he'd be hated even more than Schilachi - and I know I dont like Toto.
Maybe it shows that some of the players used to play for pride in the shirt no matter which country they were from.
Quote from: Doogie Browser on November 18, 2008, 05:41:03 PM
Quote
"England won a World Cup with a goal that never crossed the line
I love Maradona
There's no answering that one. Classic.
Quote from: magickingdom on November 18, 2008, 06:58:41 PM
bet maradonas worried about that alright ;) butchers a baby and i wonder has his grudge got anything to do with maradona other goal (when he passed butcher twice). bet he'd have no problem if england stole the game
Was listening to talksport today and a couple of people raised the possibility that the MAradona wonder goal was actually a Butcher OG as he made a desperate attempt to get back to tackle.
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on November 18, 2008, 09:28:16 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on November 18, 2008, 06:58:41 PM
bet maradonas worried about that alright ;) butchers a baby and i wonder has his grudge got anything to do with maradona other goal (when he passed butcher twice). bet he'd have no problem if england stole the game
Was listening to talksport today and a couple of people raised the possibility that the MAradona wonder goal was actually a Butcher OG as he made a desperate attempt to get back to tackle.
I heard that a few years ago and it is really difficult to tell who got the last touch. Butcher isnt going to be in a hurry to own up to scoring an OG.
Quote from: Puckoon on November 18, 2008, 08:15:12 PM
Fair play to Terry Butcher for being brutally honest. If Maradonna had done it against Ireland - he'd be hated even more than Schilachi - and I know I dont like Toto.
Maybe it shows that some of the players used to play for pride in the shirt no matter which country they were from.
I don't think Schillachi was ever hated in Ireland though? He def broke some hearts at the time alright but was never a public hate figure, sure Smithwicks paid him a small fortune recently to appear in their ad over here.
The media portrayal of Butcher annoyed me, the bloody hero of Stockholm etc. Good player, crap manager and showing himself up now with stupid comments.
Maybe I am biased but I love Maradona, some great music down the years.
Terry's mummy says you're a bunch of jealous wasters
(http://www.virginmedia.com/microsites/tvradio/slideshow/tv_fossils/img_7.jpg) (http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n199/mcrobbiedee/pat-butcher.jpg)
Orior- this isnt the would you/wouldnt you thread!!
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on November 18, 2008, 09:28:16 PM
Was listening to talksport today and a couple of people raised the possibility that the MAradona wonder goal was actually a Butcher OG as he made a desperate attempt to get back to tackle.
Agreed that most of the camera angles of this goal appear inconclusive - however there is one, in the official World Cup Film 'Hero', taken at ground level, and looking across the six yard line, that proves beyond all doubt that it was Maradona that got the last touch.
In the words of the great Barry Davies,
'You have to say that's magnificent!'
I still hate John Denton for what he did to us in the 1989 semi'
And ya, Barry Davis was a great commentator.
Quote from: Minder on November 18, 2008, 10:55:53 AM
If i was Butcher i would ask Peter Shilton how a midget out jumped him for the "Hand Of God" goal.
:D :D that gave me a good laugh!
You have to love this line "England won a World Cup with a goal that never crossed the line, so it's not fair that people should judge me." ;D. Butcher will likely be even more p*ssed off at Hampden tomorrow when a group of Scotland fans present Diego with his 1986 Scottish Player of the Year award.
Denis Wise did the same thing (scored with the hand) for England against Turkey in the 1992 Euro qualifiers and cost Ireland a place in the finals.
As for the 1986 game, Argentina were all over England in that game. England created one chance and granted Lineker scored but Argentina went straight up the pitch afterwards and should have made it 3-1, crashing the ball against the post. England had zero chance of winning the world cup in 86. The whinging against the first goal is to distract that Maradona went through them like a dose of salts for his second.
'Twas a glorious day and if it was such a "clear" handball, how come only Shilton saw it?
Maradona was already high in my estimation but reached stratosphere levels after that wonderful moment of improvisation.
Quote from: Turlough O Carolan on November 19, 2008, 02:26:57 AM
Denis Wise did the same thing (scored with the hand) for England against Turkey in the 1992 Euro qualifiers and cost Ireland a place in the finals.
As for the 1986 game, Argentina were all over England in that game. England created one chance and granted Lineker scored but Argentina went straight up the pitch afterwards and should have made it 3-1, crashing the ball against the post. England had zero chance of winning the world cup in 86. The whinging against the first goal is to distract that Maradona went through them like a dose of salts for his second.
Wisey's wasn't deliberate though so technically not a hand ball offense.
Quote from: Doogie Browser on November 18, 2008, 10:04:24 PM
Good player, crap manager and showing himself up now with stupid comments.
I wouldnt even call him a good player, more an average player who gave his all
The 'English Braveheart' attitude he portrayed was nonsense as well & shows typical English arrogance
Anyway, he is involved with the Scottish team - shows how high regard he is held in his home country ::)
It also shows how focussed he is on the Scots when he is more concerned with a goal scored against a different country more than 20 years ago.
Average player, sh1te manager, kn0b
There was a young from Strabane who went for a trial with Coventry years back while Butcher was there. He showed up for the trial in Celtic shorts. The story here in the town was that Butcher ordered him to change before getting started!
You know who it is too Doogie. Might've been your year.
Quote from: Mentalman on November 18, 2008, 05:31:45 PM
"England won a World Cup with a goal that never crossed the line, so it's not fair that people should judge me."
How can you not love this man!!!
Seriously though, the English team have cheated several times over the year, and Michael Owens dive against Argentina to win the game a few years back should at least be seen as an equalising factor, yet this never gets a mention.
The more they go on about it, the more the rest of the world sniggers at the worst loosers in the history of soccer.
maradonna summed it up when he said "England cheated in the 66 world cup with a goal that possibly never crossed the line" so it is rich that they should criticise him. What has happened has happened. Move on butcher face.
Quote from: winsamsoon on November 19, 2008, 02:01:11 PM
maradonna summed it up when he said "England cheated in the 66 world cup with a goal that possibly never crossed the line" so it is rich that they should criticise him. What has happened has happened. Move on butcher face.
How did they cheat?
Quotemaradonna summed it up when he said "England cheated in the 66 world cup with a goal that possibly never crossed the line" so it is rich that they should criticise him. What has happened has happened. Move on butcher face.
How did they cheat?
Whilst you can rarely uncover hard evidence of cheating, it was alleged that the semi final draws were fixed to ensure England & Germany were kept apart in the semis. Suspicions were further heightened when a German refereed the England v Argentina semi while an Englishman refereed the Germany v USSR semi.
Both semis were litterd with biased refereeing in favour of the eventual finalists. The most notable was the dismissal of the Argentine captain in the 1st half for asking the referee for an interpretor to explain a decision he made. The USSR also had a player dismissed in the first half.
well for one minder they didn't offer to replay the game as it was awarded to them in controversial circumstances. If the likes of Terry Butcher is taking the moral high ground then it must be the whole way across the board.
Quote from: winsamsoon on November 19, 2008, 03:20:42 PM
well for one minder they didn't offer to replay the game as it was awarded to them in controversial circumstances. If the likes of Terry Butcher is taking the moral high ground then it must be the whole way across the board.
If every game was to be replayed where there was a contentious decision they would be playing all year round. You cannot still say for certain the ball did/didnt cross the line.
Quote from: Minder on November 19, 2008, 03:29:29 PM
Quote from: winsamsoon on November 19, 2008, 03:20:42 PM
well for one minder they didn't offer to replay the game as it was awarded to them in controversial circumstances. If the likes of Terry Butcher is taking the moral high ground then it must be the whole way across the board.
If every game was to be replayed where there was a contentious decision they would be playing all year round. You cannot still say for certain the ball did/didnt cross the line.
FFS!
Quote from: magpie seanie on November 19, 2008, 03:46:25 PM
Quote from: Minder on November 19, 2008, 03:29:29 PM
Quote from: winsamsoon on November 19, 2008, 03:20:42 PM
well for one minder they didn't offer to replay the game as it was awarded to them in controversial circumstances. If the likes of Terry Butcher is taking the moral high ground then it must be the whole way across the board.
If every game was to be replayed where there was a contentious decision they would be playing all year round. You cannot still say for certain the ball did/didnt cross the line.
FFS!
Eh?
QuoteYou cannot still say for certain the ball did/didnt cross the line.
The relatively new technology used in tennis to tell if the ball is out or not was applied and it was concluded that the ball did not cross the line.
Quote from: under the bar on November 19, 2008, 04:02:32 PM
QuoteYou cannot still say for certain the ball did/didnt cross the line.
The relatively new technology used in tennis to tell if the ball is out or not was applied and it was concluded that the ball did not cross the line.
I doubt the accuracy of such technology applied to footage like this where the cameras are not in a precise position etc
even the application of it in the likes of garcias goal against chelsea in the CL was laughable.
QuoteI doubt the accuracy of such technology applied to footage like this where the cameras are not in a precise position etc
even the application of it in the likes of garcias goal against chelsea in the CL was laughable.
But surely the square of the hypotenuse is always equal to the sum of the squares of the other 2 sides?
Butcher wants to catch himself on ffs. Decades later he is still bitter because Maradona embarassed him, his goalkeeper and the entire English team with brilliance and sleight of hand. ;)
Butcher should consider Maradona's play at that time, he was far and away the greatest player in the world and he was at the top of his game.
I liked Diego Maradona, after he beat England in that game i would have had his babbies, I loved the man. :)
Tevez's mum visits him at Carrington Training Ground
Quote from: under the bar on November 19, 2008, 04:27:53 PM
But surely the square of the hypotenuse is always equal to the sum of the squares of the other 2 sides?
In a right angle triangle it is.
The use of old footage for accurate triangulation is always going to have a margin for error.
hawkeye has got calls wrong on a number of occasions and it uses at least 4 correctly placed, modern high speed cameras.
Quote from: Puckoon on November 18, 2008, 08:15:12 PM
Fair play to Terry Butcher for being brutally honest. If Maradonna had done it against Ireland - he'd be hated even more than Schilachi - and I know I dont like Toto.
Maybe it shows that some of the players used to play for pride in the shirt no matter which country they were from.
Agree 100% with that Puck,though I have nothing against Toto...
I am still however pissed off about Dublin getting a free that wasn't one in the last second's of the 2005 Leinster Final...That still haunts me :'(
Quote from: Minder on November 19, 2008, 03:29:29 PM
Quote from: winsamsoon on November 19, 2008, 03:20:42 PM
well for one minder they didn't offer to replay the game as it was awarded to them in controversial circumstances. If the likes of Terry Butcher is taking the moral high ground then it must be the whole way across the board.
If every game was to be replayed where there was a contentious decision they would be playing all year round. You cannot still say for certain the ball did/didnt cross the line.
It is our right to hate and question all successes (well one) of the England Soccer team, just accept it and you will get on better.
The ball did not cross the line, I was talking to a mate from Vladivostock and he met the linesman once and he admitted his error.
Quote from: Minder on November 19, 2008, 03:29:29 PM
Quote from: winsamsoon on November 19, 2008, 03:20:42 PM
well for one minder they didn't offer to replay the game as it was awarded to them in controversial circumstances. If the likes of Terry Butcher is taking the moral high ground then it must be the whole way across the board.
If every game was to be replayed where there was a contentious decision they would be playing all year round. You cannot still say for certain the ball did/didnt cross the line.
Minder in many ways this highlights the point i am trying to get across to you. Cheating, controversy call it what you like goes on all the time. They didn't offer to play the game again in 66 and i am sure Terry Butcher was guilty of few incidents of cheating in his time. It can be as simple as taking a throw when you know it has just hit your shin. It's cheating and it is there to be seen in the majority of soccer matches in particular.
Whilst i acknowledge that they are hard to take for the players involved, to go on and on about it serves no purpose only to heighten the continued pain. He should get on with his life and quit playing the hard done by card.
I see some lads talking about cameras in football. I wouldn't want them because it would take the controversy out of the game. In many ways it is the controversy that allows the ordinary person to have a great debate or slagging session after the game. Without these incidents certain games would never be remembered and the majority would be dull as hell. Only for that Goal and the handball of Maradonna in 86 the game would probably only be mentioned in intro's when both counties are meeting. The cracking goal that he did score pales into significance because the English media feel hard done by. Butcher reflects this what can be observed as arrogance. Move on accept the result and look towards the future. It's done and dusted in my book. Trust me if he hadn't have cheated they would have found some other reason why they lost.
Well? Did Mr Chip-on-the-shoulder shake hands with God after the game?
Quote from: under the bar on November 20, 2008, 12:11:09 PM
Well? Did Mr Chip-on-the-shoulder shake hands with God after the game?
No and Maradonna took the piss out of him in the post match interview - "Who is he? Who is Butcher? I greeted the Scotland manager after the game. Who is Butcher?"
Butcher never got near him in 86 either.
Thought the fans banner was a good one.
What was the banter?
Just a lock o' scots with a fleg sayin "thanks diego for 86"
Gotta love the Scots lol
FFS it happened 22 years ago. Get over it. Even if it happened to your team you would probably call him a wee bollix for trying it and laugh about it now.
Although in fairness Peter Canavan dived for a penalty again down in the drawn ulster final in 03 and he is still a diving wee fecker.
QuoteAlthough in fairness Peter Canavan dived for a penalty again down in the drawn ulster final in 03 and he is still a diving wee fecker.
And sure James McCartan is a violent criminal but sure we don;t let it bother us! :D
Quote from: Maiden1 on November 20, 2008, 02:15:57 PM
FFS it happened 22 years ago. Get over it. Even if it happened to your team you would probably call him a wee bollix for trying it and laugh about it now.
Although in fairness Peter Canavan dived for a penalty again down in the drawn ulster final in 03 and he is still a diving wee fecker.
So is Philly Jordan