A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.

Started by winghalfback, May 27, 2015, 03:16:23 PM

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general_lee

Why do you say Unionism has failed? It's only ever been successful since NI was created.

T Fearon

It has failed to convince the British Government and people that it is an integral part of the U.K.,unlike for example,Wales and Scotland has.

smelmoth

Quote from: armaghniac on January 17, 2016, 12:06:11 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on January 16, 2016, 11:51:34 PM
Firstly - I'd say very few people from a protestant background have been fed Orange colonialist supremacist bullshit.

Well they are voting for parties supportive of Orange colonialist supremacist bullshit, so they must have got it from somewhere.

And all SF voters believe in a socialist republic outside the EU? All SF voters are pro-abortion? All SDLP voters are pro-life? All SF voters are ant-grammar schools and do not their kids through the unofficial 11+?

Quote from: armaghniac on January 17, 2016, 12:06:11 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on January 16, 2016, 11:51:34 PM
Secondly - we are already people from a catholic background not buying to irish nationalism. On that basis why is the relative birth rates important.

I have distinguished in these threads between those supporting the union for colonialist reasons and those who support it for pragmatic reasons. The latter can be convinced to change their view if other pragmatic solutions are proposed, not that Sinn Féin are ever likely to do this.
Are you are that someone living in Lanarkshire who voted against Scotish independence is a UK nationalist but someone in Antrim voting to stay in the UK is a colonialist? Or is anyone who feels British automatically a colonialist?

Quote from: armaghniac on January 17, 2016, 12:06:11 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on January 16, 2016, 11:51:34 PM
Thirdly - is there any bullshit being fed to catholic kids??

hard to say, they are definitely getting too much sugar.
Not in any way dodging the issue there

T Fearon

Part of the problem here is that neither side really understands the other.Nationalists think unionists are Irish,if they only could realise it,and Unionists think we are all British subjects because that's what the majority wants.

RealSpiritof98

My loyalist friend said to me that he and I were British, i replied by saying that i respected his view but objected saying neither of us were indeed british. I was born on the island of Ireland hold an Irish passport therefore i have everyright to call myself Irish. Regarding my friend i explained to him that you were born in Northern Ireland and you hold a passport for the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. therefore to his amusement i said he was northern Irish or a United Kindomian (or Ukish or Uker) you get my point.

seafoid

Quote from: T Fearon on January 17, 2016, 11:26:36 AM
Part of the problem here is that neither side really understands the other.Nationalists think unionists are Irish,if they only could realise it,and Unionists think we are all British subjects because that's what the majority wants.
Arlene Foster was in the Irish Times talking about growing up in Fermanagh, the most westerly part of the UK.  WTF
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

snoopdog

I'm living in Dublin now but when I go home I notice there seems to be more of a northern irish identity popping up and Prob as much among the traditional nationalist community. Not only threatens any hope of a united ireland it also threatens the gaa. I see small clubs struggling to field in areas where there are the educate together schools. I doubt the gaa is played in these although I could be wrong. But I assume their ethos is a northern irish identity . I could be wrong though.

armaghniac

Fine to build a society based on  honesty, decency, work ethic, religious belief, respect, tolerance, plain speaking, thriftiness,temperance etc. But it would be quite malign to attempt to use this to foster a false division, people in Monaghan have these characteristics as much, if not more, than people in Fermanagh and there is no justification for a division between them. Fostering division in the name of reducing division is a singularly deceptive proposition.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

T Fearon

How are they divided? People can travel to Fermanagh from Monaghan and vice Versa.Fostering a N Irish identity will dilute the obsession with the UK or 26 counties,neither of whom wants us,understands us,or has our best interests at heart.

armaghniac

Quote from: T Fearon on January 17, 2016, 07:47:39 PM
How are they divided? People can travel to Fermanagh from Monaghan and vice Versa.Fostering a N Irish identity will dilute the obsession with the UK or 26 counties,neither of whom wants us,understands us,or has our best interests at heart.

Being able to travel to one place is a very modest ambition. Fostering a hyphenated diluted Irish identity is the eventual victory of colonialism, and indeed the end of the GAA in the 6 counties.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

seafoid

Quote from: general_lee on January 17, 2016, 09:35:33 AM
Why do you say Unionism has failed? It's only ever been successful since NI was created.
to have succeeded it would have to have built a sustainable state  commanding the loyalty of the people.v coulda shoulda woulda
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

T Fearon

Fostering a Northern Irish based culture is the only way of sidelining the extremes

general_lee

Quote from: T Fearon on January 17, 2016, 09:30:57 PM
Fostering a Northern Irish based culture is the only way of sidelining the extremes
Being an Irish man in Ireland is not an extreme you numpty

seafoid


I dont think anyone in OWC has thought through the implications of the Tory project to cut government spending to 35% of GDP.
The NHS will be raped. Social spending will be eviscerated

The rate down South is around 42%-
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

armaghniac

#344
Quote from: general_lee on January 17, 2016, 10:09:35 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on January 17, 2016, 09:30:57 PM
Fostering a Northern Irish based culture is the only way of sidelining the extremes
Being an Irish man in Ireland is not an extreme you numpty

A notable feature of this debate is that normality, a person being recognised as a full citizen of their own country is characterised as extreme; while the extreme, a 17th century sectarian colonial project still existing in the 21st century, is proposed as normality.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B