The IRISH RUGBY thread

[Syferus]

American sports get a lot of things right and one of them is their willingness to suspend players facing charges.. like a lot of other sports, rugby is totally backwards and will only reach a similar point in its evolution the decades to come.

They are facing charges.

They have been suspended.

They have been facing investigation for months.

[gallsman]

American sports get a lot of things right and one of them is their willingness to suspend players facing charges.. like a lot of other sports, rugby is totally backwards and will only reach a similar point in its evolution the decades to come.

They are facing charges.

They have been suspended.

They have been facing investigation for months.

That's different from facing charges. You claimed that US sports would suspend players facing charges. That is exactly what has happened here.

You claimed this bollocks about how great US franchises are at shutting down players at the first sign of trouble when the Adam Johnson case hit the news too and were shown up as talking utter shite then as well.

[Syferus]

American sports get a lot of things right and one of them is their willingness to suspend players facing charges.. like a lot of other sports, rugby is totally backwards and will only reach a similar point in its evolution the decades to come.

They are facing charges.

They have been suspended.

They have been facing investigation for months.

That's different from facing charges. You claimed that US sports would suspend players facing charges. That is exactly what has happened here.

You claimed this bollocks about how great US franchises are at shutting down players at the first sign of trouble when the Adam Johnson case hit the news too and were shown up as talking utter shite then as well.

The Cowboys released a player yesterday because he was mistakenly identified in a robbery. Big Ben got a significant suspension despite never even being convicted of his rape allegations. If you can't see that sportspeople in American sports are held to harsher moral standards than ones here and in the U.K. more's the fool you.

The victim here is the woman but you're trying to make it about your personal dislike of me. Sad.

[Owen Brannigan]

American sports get a lot of things right and one of them is their willingness to suspend players facing charges.. like a lot of other sports, rugby is totally backwards and will only reach a similar point in its evolution the decades to come.

They are facing charges.

They have been suspended.

They have been facing investigation for months.

No they haven't.

As happens in our jurisdiction, the matter is investigated by the PSNI who hand it over to the PPS for a decision on prosecution. After a considerable period of time, the PPS will decide that charges should be made. At this stage, the case can move to the courts where it can hang around for a long time.  The PPS will use this media publicity to bring out witnesses or even others to make similar claims to help them build a case.

Expect this to run and run with the PPS seeking adjournment after adjournment while feeding the media.. as seen with some people on this thread the presumption of innocence is soon eroded if ever there given the high profile of the accused and it doesn't take long for any jury to be poisoned be the court case begins.

[gallsman]

I'm not trying to make anything about anything. Me calling you out on your bullshit has no relevance to the (alleged) victim in this case. Rather, it's you doing her the disservice here. It would be somewhat ironic bit only if you didn't know precisely what you were doing (which you most certainly did).

[Syferus]

American sports get a lot of things right and one of them is their willingness to suspend players facing charges.. like a lot of other sports, rugby is totally backwards and will only reach a similar point in its evolution the decades to come.

They are facing charges.

They have been suspended.

They have been facing investigation for months.

No they haven't.

As happens in our jurisdiction, the matter is investigated by the PSNI who hand it over to the PPS for a decision on prosecution. After a considerable period of time, the PPS will decide that charges should be made. At this stage, the case can move to the courts where it can hang around for a long time.  The PPS will use this media publicity to bring out witnesses or even others to make similar claims to help them build a case.

Expect this to run and run with the PPS seeking adjournment after adjournment while feeding the media.. as seen with some people on this thread the presumption of innocence is soon eroded if ever there given the high profile of the accused and it doesn't take long for any jury to be poisoned be the court case begins.

It's a lot harder for the State to bring cases against rich, famous people because they surround themselves in greaseball solicitors and leak every little bit of info they can to discredit the victim. That it's even got this far should worry Mr. Jackson very much.

[Owen Brannigan]

Interesting to note that both have chosen particular solicitors.  Lodi get has gone for Joe Rice while Jackson has gone for Kevin Winters.  Both are expert in controversial cases and neither would have been thought to be the first choice for these men.  Recognition that both solicitors are at the top of their games especially when dealing with media. They have already slapped the BBC with a writ over previous reporting.

From BBC today:

Solicitor Joe Rice, representing Stuart Olding said: "I would like to point out that my client has fully co-operated with the investigation and is not on any bail conditions and is of previous good character.
"He should be allowed to uphold his right to the presumption of innocence and rejects any allegation of wrong-doing and is confident his name will be cleared through the courts."
In a similar statement, Paddy Jackson's solicitor Kevin Winters said: "He rejects the allegations completely and we're very disappointed at the PPS decision to prosecute on these particular facts."
"We say there is no basis for the decision to prosecute and we are confident that our client will be cleared of any charge."

Solicitor Joe Rice, representing Stuart Olding said: "I would like to point out that my client has fully co-operated with the investigation and is not on any bail conditions and is of previous good character.
"He should be allowed to uphold his right to the presumption of innocence and rejects any allegation of wrong-doing and is confident his name will be cleared through the courts."
In a similar statement, Paddy Jackson's solicitor Kevin Winters said: "He rejects the allegations completely and we're very disappointed at the PPS decision to prosecute on these particular facts."
"We say there is no basis for the decision to prosecute and we are confident that our client will be cleared of any charge."

It is important that everyone including those most prejudiced and outside our jurisdiction follow the advice below:

The PPS statement added: "As the criminal proceedings against these individuals have commenced and each has a right to a fair trial, it is extremely important that there should be no reporting, commentary or sharing of information online which could in any way prejudice proceedings."

[Owen Brannigan]

American sports get a lot of things right and one of them is their willingness to suspend players facing charges.. like a lot of other sports, rugby is totally backwards and will only reach a similar point in its evolution the decades to come.

They are facing charges.

They have been suspended.

They have been facing investigation for months.

No they haven't.

As happens in our jurisdiction, the matter is investigated by the PSNI who hand it over to the PPS for a decision on prosecution. After a considerable period of time, the PPS will decide that charges should be made. At this stage, the case can move to the courts where it can hang around for a long time.  The PPS will use this media publicity to bring out witnesses or even others to make similar claims to help them build a case.

Expect this to run and run with the PPS seeking adjournment after adjournment while feeding the media.. as seen with some people on this thread the presumption of innocence is soon eroded if ever there given the high profile of the accused and it doesn't take long for any jury to be poisoned be the court case begins.

It's a lot harder for the State to bring cases against rich, famous people because they surround themselves in greaseball solicitors and leak every little bit of info they can to discredit the victim. That it's even got this far should worry Mr. Jackson very much.

That maybe justice RoI but in Ni any leaking is always against the accused and the media kept fully informed.  This is well documented by others charged with similar offences and books written by the innocent.

This will be a bad time for the accused and the families of the accused.

[Owen Brannigan]

American sports get a lot of things right and one of them is their willingness to suspend players facing charges.. like a lot of other sports, rugby is totally backwards and will only reach a similar point in its evolution the decades to come.

They are facing charges.

They have been suspended.

They have been facing investigation for months.

No they haven't.

As happens in our jurisdiction, the matter is investigated by the PSNI who hand it over to the PPS for a decision on prosecution. After a considerable period of time, the PPS will decide that charges should be made. At this stage, the case can move to the courts where it can hang around for a long time.  The PPS will use this media publicity to bring out witnesses or even others to make similar claims to help them build a case.

Expect this to run and run with the PPS seeking adjournment after adjournment while feeding the media.. as seen with some people on this thread the presumption of innocence is soon eroded if ever there given the high profile of the accused and it doesn't take long for any jury to be poisoned be the court case begins.

It's a lot harder for the State to bring cases against rich, famous people because they surround themselves in greaseball solicitors and leak every little bit of info they can to discredit the victim. That it's even got this far should worry Mr. Jackson very much.

Joe Rice and Kevin Winters are far from 'greaseball solicitors'. They are the sort of representatives who any of us would want as representatives. Typical of you to denigrate them in your implication and total prejudice against the accused.

[Syferus]

American sports get a lot of things right and one of them is their willingness to suspend players facing charges.. like a lot of other sports, rugby is totally backwards and will only reach a similar point in its evolution the decades to come.

They are facing charges.

They have been suspended.

They have been facing investigation for months.

No they haven't.

As happens in our jurisdiction, the matter is investigated by the PSNI who hand it over to the PPS for a decision on prosecution. After a considerable period of time, the PPS will decide that charges should be made. At this stage, the case can move to the courts where it can hang around for a long time.  The PPS will use this media publicity to bring out witnesses or even others to make similar claims to help them build a case.

Expect this to run and run with the PPS seeking adjournment after adjournment while feeding the media.. as seen with some people on this thread the presumption of innocence is soon eroded if ever there given the high profile of the accused and it doesn't take long for any jury to be poisoned be the court case begins.

It's a lot harder for the State to bring cases against rich, famous people because they surround themselves in greaseball solicitors and leak every little bit of info they can to discredit the victim. That it's even got this far should worry Mr. Jackson very much.

Joe Rice and Kevin Winters are far from 'greaseball solicitors'. They are the sort of representatives who any of us would want as representatives. Typical of you to denigrate them in your implication and total prejudice against the accused.

If you want a hired gun to try to warp the story to suit your client, sure. They don't really have a duty to the truth, but a duty to whoever is cutting them a fat cheque. Please don't get too worked up about high-powered defence solicitors, they are a strange breed in anyone's book.

That's not my interest in this, nor should it be your's or anyone else's, for that matter. You'd expect Jackson will see significant jail time if convicted seeing as he's shown no remorse and will be judged harshly in that eventuality.

Incredible that you'd get emotional about the plight of a person charged with rape when it's invariably the rape victim who suffers the most abuse online and in person from supporters of whatever famous person of the month that has sinned. To even bring the proceedings this far is a brave act because there is a real culture of silence around rape and a willingness to side with the man in many quarters.

[ballinaman]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40718990

Expect big changes to the tackle in rugby very soon.

[AZOffaly]

This is the problem that the NFL has belatedly woken up to. However the headline and the study require a little context. These donated brains were from people suspected of having CTE. It is not a random sample of donated brains so it's not quite as alarming as first glance would suggest. I've been saying for years now that nobody tackles in the NFL. They all want to lay the big hit and separate the man from the ball. If they tackled rather than hit, this would greatly help. I think rugby is heading the same way with all the crash ball centres, and the culture of the big hit rather than the good tackle is already creeping in.

[ballinaman]

This is the problem that the NFL has belatedly woken up to. However the headline and the study require a little context. These donated brains were from people suspected of having CTE. It is not a random sample of donated brains so it's not quite as alarming as first glance would suggest. I've been saying for years now that nobody tackles in the NFL. They all want to lay the big hit and separate the man from the ball. If they tackled rather than hit, this would greatly help. I think rugby is heading the same way with all the crash ball centres, and the culture of the big hit rather than the good tackle is already creeping in.

Went to a presentation by Ross Tucker in UCD a few weeks ago on concussion. Fascinating stuff,  his research group have been collecting data on what type of collisions / tackle are most likely to cause a concussion since 2011. Everytime a HIA occurs the video and the assessment are forwarded to his research group. World rugby are funding the research. Rule changes are coming in light of the results ...

[DuffleKing]

The police have spent months pouring over the case. If they didn't think they had a very good shot at conviction they would not charge him, and the act of charging him says they fully believe he's guilty. Save your hand wringing for someone that doesn't see how marginalized rape victims are.

I hope he never plays for Ulster or Ireland again.

It's handy enough ignoring the shite you talk about football but when you bumble your way into this sort of territory you need called out. Due process is in place for a reason you moron.

[Syferus]

The police have spent months pouring over the case. If they didn't think they had a very good shot at conviction they would not charge him, and the act of charging him says they fully believe he's guilty. Save your hand wringing for someone that doesn't see how marginalized rape victims are.

I hope he never plays for Ulster or Ireland again.

It's handy enough ignoring the shite you talk about football but when you bumble your way into this sort of territory you need called out. Due process is in place for a reason you moron.

The State has completed its due process and believe he is guilty of raping a young woman. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it before you go around calling anyone else childish names.