Standard of Refs

[David McKeown]

Unless I am misreading the interview Fenton gave about his recent appeal, it seems his challenge was that he had never been sent off before and therefore shouldn't receive the minimum punishment for his sending off.  If I am reading that correctly its such a nonsense which can only further undermine referees and the rule book if it were granted.

The other point I wanted to make about standard of refereeing etc is the stupid positions that the association often puts referees in.  I want to be very clear I do not think referees are biased or would deliberately do anything that could benefit third parties but why oh why do the association keep selecting referees who it could be said have a vested interest in a particular match.

For example why in all Ireland finals involving Dublin in recent years have they selected a referee who lives, works and as far as I understand is connected to a club in Dublin.  I know he is an excellent referee and I dont think he's ever done anything wrong but so selecting him leaves him open to baseless criticism should he make a 50/50 call in favour of Dublin.  That's a pressure I don't think referees need.  Similarly why select a referee who is from a county that one of the two teams who are playing will meet in the next round.  If there's a controversial red card and it then impacts that match, questions will again be unfairly asked.  There's no need to put that extra pressure on referees.

In law the test for bias isn't has there been or is there likely to be actual bias.  The test is can an individual fully aware of all the facts conclude there is no chance of bias (conscious or otherwise), if they cant then you remove that possibility.  I think this is something the association need to look at. 

What if you end up with a shit referee?

Get the best ref's for the game, I can't for the life of me see how a ref in front of the thousands watching and viewers on tv be bias.

Of course take that possibility of people thinking that one could be bias because they are x y z but it starts to limit that range of available refs of a certain standard.

It's like club championship, if you only used ref's from a div below to ref senior then you are limiting it, then if he's married someone from another parish then questions will be asked, if he did some work for someone from another parish and so, people will just presume stuff regardless

Now another look at would be this ref has worked his ass off to get an opportunity to referee a final or a big game, but because his ma used to date someone from up the road he's black listed lol!

If the referee is shit what are they doing at that level anyway?  My point is I feel sorry for refs who have gotten to the point of being good enough to referee big games then do a good job only for it to be completely undermined by a stupid comment about where they are from or who they are married to etc. I don't think that's fair on referees.

My point on the shit referee is that when you start limiting the reasons to have a referee because of said reasons, you'll end up with a small pool to pick from.

You can, if you want and search it, a reason for not having a particular ref for any game!

Ireland is very small, there'd be some link or two

I accept that it wont always be possible or fair to a referee and If its not possible its not possible I just dont know why its not a consideration when it can be.  Its an active consideration in soccer.  Mike Dean (the senior referee in English football) only refereed Liverpool 13 times and Everton 11 in his entire career (with 8 of those games being between the 2) apparently because of his known fandom of Tranmere Rovers.  He refereed Man Utd 84 times, Arsenal 80, Man City 82, Chelsea 78 etc

Yeah he's a mad tramere fan, but still ref'd them, albeit far less.

I know you're not questioning someone's integrity and feel some by location or work or whatever may have that bitta doubt before blowing the whistle or not blowing it.

At intercounty level they are (believe it or not lol) scrutinised from an application of rules all the way down to how their umpires look!

Would be disastrous for a ref to ruin his/hers name by being bias

Ref's at either football or hurling at intercounty level come championship are picked early doors for Sam/Liam all games are ref'd from that selection. I'm sure all considerations are taken but I'd not be privy to how that's done in fairness

No I don't feel that way at all.  I am obviously not articulating myself well enough here.  What I am saying is that the association isn't helping in terms of creating a culture of respect towards ref by some of the awkward spots they put referees in.  I don't think I have ever seen a referee certainly not at IC level make a decision that I felt was because they had a connection to the team involved or because it would benefit their own county.  I have however heard plenty of fans make such connections and it therefore introduces some unnecessary doubt into what is already a difficult job.  I think the GAA should be removing all unnecessary doubt and pressure from referees where possible to make their job easier.

[Gael85]

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41379304.html

[Milltown Row2]

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41379304.html

Ah the aul hindsight and replays, multiple angles and so on, people hate VAR in the PL but call for it here!

Galvin needs to throw stuff out there otherwise he'll be not getting a wee earner

[johnnycool]

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41379304.html

Ah the aul hindsight and replays, multiple angles and so on, people hate VAR in the PL but call for it here!

Gavin needs to throw stuff out there otherwise he'll be not getting a wee earner

Correct on that point.

Both "square balls" in the Clare v Limerick game are really hard for umpires to call in real time, especially the second one as no doubt the umpire on the far post had his eyes on Hegarty coming in that side so when his shot hits off the post and pops up for Gillane, he's just turned his point of focus toward Gillane who's there in the square, but so is the ball.

First one, fullback needs to take a bit of the blame, rule no 1 of fullback play is that absolutely no one gets near that high ball dropping down, Cleary really should have been driving Gillane away from it, making sure he doesn't even get a chance to flick the hurl at it. Too weak for my liking there.
There's no way Brian Lohan lets Gillane get a touch on that in his day.

Clare will be kicking themselves as the other Limerick goal was very saveable, the lad didn't connect at all well with it and it bounced twice before hitting the net.

[Milltown Row2]

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41379304.html

Ah the aul hindsight and replays, multiple angles and so on, people hate VAR in the PL but call for it here!

Gavin needs to throw stuff out there otherwise he'll be not getting a wee earner

Correct on that point.

Both "square balls" in the Clare v Limerick game are really hard for umpires to call in real time, especially the second one as no doubt the umpire on the far post had his eyes on Hegarty coming in that side so when his shot hits off the post and pops up for Gillane, he's just turned his point of focus toward Gillane who's there in the square, but so is the ball.

First one, fullback needs to take a bit of the blame, rule no 1 of fullback play is that absolutely no one gets near that high ball dropping down, Cleary really should have been driving Gillane away from it, making sure he doesn't even get a chance to flick the hurl at it. Too weak for my liking there.
There's no way Brian Lohan lets Gillane get a touch on that in his day.

Clare will be kicking themselves as the other Limerick goal was very saveable, the lad didn't connect at all well with it and it bounced twice before hitting the net.

Personally I believe (though not in the rules) that the ref walks down very slowly towards his umpires, while maintaining contact with the fourth official who's at a desk on the sidelines, the ref is asking him to view it on a monitor that should be available for him, by the time he gets to chat with the umpires the fourth official will have had a better idea of a goal or square ball.

[HokeyPokey]

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41379304.html

Ah the aul hindsight and replays, multiple angles and so on, people hate VAR in the PL but call for it here!

Galvin needs to throw stuff out there otherwise he'll be not getting a wee earner

The PL have made a hames of VAR though. The standard of reffing in the PL is just generally abysmal considering the standard of the players. The same refs are in charge of VAR so it's a reflection of that. They could easily automate things like the ball going out of play and semi automated offsides. They have made some absolutely terrible mistakes. There's continually changes to the way they ref, some of which is announced, sometimes it's not. So something can be deemed a penalty, one week and then not be a penalty the following week.

It generally works grand for rugby and also for international soccer tournaments as far as I can see.

[NAG1]

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41379304.html

Ah the aul hindsight and replays, multiple angles and so on, people hate VAR in the PL but call for it here!

Galvin needs to throw stuff out there otherwise he'll be not getting a wee earner

The PL have made a hames of VAR though. The standard of reffing in the PL is just generally abysmal considering the standard of the players. The same refs are in charge of VAR so it's a reflection of that. They could easily automate things like the ball going out of play and semi automated offsides. They have made some absolutely terrible mistakes. There's continually changes to the way they ref, some of which is announced, sometimes it's not. So something can be deemed a penalty, one week and then not be a penalty the following week.

It generally works grand for rugby and also for international soccer tournaments as far as I can see.

That's because they have tried to implement a system which is looking at something which is ultimately opinion and interpretation based. It is not black and white and 3 different people in the VAR room watching the same footage could make three different calls on it, so it was never going to be the silver bullet for refs.
If anything I think it is had made their life more difficult instead of less.

[Milltown Row2]

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41379304.html

Ah the aul hindsight and replays, multiple angles and so on, people hate VAR in the PL but call for it here!

Galvin needs to throw stuff out there otherwise he'll be not getting a wee earner

The PL have made a hames of VAR though. The standard of reffing in the PL is just generally abysmal considering the standard of the players. The same refs are in charge of VAR so it's a reflection of that. They could easily automate things like the ball going out of play and semi automated offsides. They have made some absolutely terrible mistakes. There's continually changes to the way they ref, some of which is announced, sometimes it's not. So something can be deemed a penalty, one week and then not be a penalty the following week.

It generally works grand for rugby and also for international soccer tournaments as far as I can see.

That's because they have tried to implement a system which is looking at which is ultimately opinion and interpretation based. It is not black and white and 3 different people in the VAR room watching the same footage could make three different calls on it, so it was never going to be the silver bullet for refs.
If anything I think it is had made their life more difficult instead of less.

And the same thing will apply when they have two refs on the pitch at Intercounty level.. Said it many times, one mistake is better than 2 mistakes