Positive proposals at last to address the spectacle of Gaelic Football

Started by APM, October 02, 2018, 04:43:21 PM

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Joe Mc Nallys Ballsack

Quote from: tippabu on December 21, 2018, 11:06:40 AM
Quote from: Joe Mc Nallys Ballsack on December 21, 2018, 01:36:59 AM
Quote from: tippabu on December 10, 2018, 01:25:28 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on December 10, 2018, 12:22:26 PM

Is it not apparent to everyone that none of these proposals - least of all the handpass restriction - are going to discourage packing defences? Quite the opposite.

It's crazy, I can confirm I'm not from Ulster, a saddist, manager or whoever else is against it apparently. It's funny to see some of these sweeping statements when it's clear no thought to the concequesnces of these. I've put out there multiple times in detail why I think these won't work so won't again. Like you I feel this will only encourage and reward the mass defence mentality and tactic. One of the worst things though, this is being trialed in the league and we've no idea how it will go, league is too important to try these out in.

If these turn out to be a huge success and we get great games I will be the 1st to hold my hands up and say I was wrong

Well at least they are trying . Unfortunately up North they don;t want to try anything that might improve the game as a spectacle.

This conversation is required as the game has become redundant as a spectator sport.

This may not be the answer but at least we are having the debate.

For me a rule should be brought in that you must have 6 players in the opposition half of the field at all times. People say it's not enforceable . It is as the linesmen are perfectly placed to see it and do largely f*** all anyway except run up the line

Bring it at county level first where the manpower is . Club football largely apes the county game anyway

Trying yes but my fear is they only looked at this in a way that is positive and failed to consider the negative impacts and it's the negative impacts I think will make these rules a massive failure.

On keeping 6 in each half of the pitch, it's not enforcement I would be against, it's the stopping of the attacking wingbacks being allowed come forward and stopping of defenders joining the attack. It would I'm sure make for a more open game but I still feel the likes of carlow, fermanagh etc who have had recent success based on a solid defensive structure I would like to see these teams still be able implement these

I've put forward all of my opinions on why I would love to see 13 a side trialled (And not in a competition as important as the league) so I won't go through it all again

I respect your opinion but 13 a side is insane. Anything that reduces the numbers starting  a game will only reduce the participation numbers which is pointless in my opinion .

Carlow played one forward and got lucky in one game. They in my opinion are not something that should be held up as a reason for teams playing 13 behind the ball .

They were muck to watch. It was like watching a herd of cows rolling in  a field somewhere.

The bottom line is they played a Division 4 team in Croke Park using 13 men behind the ball and were beaten comfortably by a team beaten by 20 points in a Leinster Final by Dublin

If that's progress then I'm all for these new rules

It's time for amalgamations at county level and an emphasis on getting people to watch the game again.


tippabu

Quote from: Joe Mc Nallys Ballsack on December 22, 2018, 12:24:41 AM
Quote from: tippabu on December 21, 2018, 11:06:40 AM
Quote from: Joe Mc Nallys Ballsack on December 21, 2018, 01:36:59 AM
Quote from: tippabu on December 10, 2018, 01:25:28 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on December 10, 2018, 12:22:26 PM

Is it not apparent to everyone that none of these proposals - least of all the handpass restriction - are going to discourage packing defences? Quite the opposite.

It's crazy, I can confirm I'm not from Ulster, a saddist, manager or whoever else is against it apparently. It's funny to see some of these sweeping statements when it's clear no thought to the concequesnces of these. I've put out there multiple times in detail why I think these won't work so won't again. Like you I feel this will only encourage and reward the mass defence mentality and tactic. One of the worst things though, this is being trialed in the league and we've no idea how it will go, league is too important to try these out in.

If these turn out to be a huge success and we get great games I will be the 1st to hold my hands up and say I was wrong

Well at least they are trying . Unfortunately up North they don;t want to try anything that might improve the game as a spectacle.

This conversation is required as the game has become redundant as a spectator sport.

This may not be the answer but at least we are having the debate.

For me a rule should be brought in that you must have 6 players in the opposition half of the field at all times. People say it's not enforceable . It is as the linesmen are perfectly placed to see it and do largely f*** all anyway except run up the line

Bring it at county level first where the manpower is . Club football largely apes the county game anyway

Trying yes but my fear is they only looked at this in a way that is positive and failed to consider the negative impacts and it's the negative impacts I think will make these rules a massive failure.

On keeping 6 in each half of the pitch, it's not enforcement I would be against, it's the stopping of the attacking wingbacks being allowed come forward and stopping of defenders joining the attack. It would I'm sure make for a more open game but I still feel the likes of carlow, fermanagh etc who have had recent success based on a solid defensive structure I would like to see these teams still be able implement these

I've put forward all of my opinions on why I would love to see 13 a side trialled (And not in a competition as important as the league) so I won't go through it all again

I respect your opinion but 13 a side is insane. Anything that reduces the numbers starting  a game will only reduce the participation numbers which is pointless in my opinion .

Carlow played one forward and got lucky in one game. They in my opinion are not something that should be held up as a reason for teams playing 13 behind the ball .

They were muck to watch. It was like watching a herd of cows rolling in  a field somewhere.

The bottom line is they played a Division 4 team in Croke Park using 13 men behind the ball and were beaten comfortably by a team beaten by 20 points in a Leinster Final by Dublin

If that's progress then I'm all for these new rules

It's time for amalgamations at county level and an emphasis on getting people to watch the game again.

did you read my earlier posts on why i believe 13 a side should be trialed? to call 13 a side insane and then say your all for these new rules i think shows theres not much talking with you.  Carlow got promoted, had some great results by their traditional standards, we cannot compare them to dublin or the other top teams. most teams now league is priority and championship is bonus. and as for amalgamations please god no, i would despise supporting a tipp/waterford/kilkenny/wexford south east team.....i want to support tipperary and tipperary alone for better or worse, the same with all the splitting dublin in half, i would hate to see it

Blowitupref

Quote from: tippabu on December 22, 2018, 12:40:26 AM
Quote from: Joe Mc Nallys Ballsack on December 22, 2018, 12:24:41 AM
Quote from: tippabu on December 21, 2018, 11:06:40 AM
Quote from: Joe Mc Nallys Ballsack on December 21, 2018, 01:36:59 AM
Quote from: tippabu on December 10, 2018, 01:25:28 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on December 10, 2018, 12:22:26 PM

Is it not apparent to everyone that none of these proposals - least of all the handpass restriction - are going to discourage packing defences? Quite the opposite.

It's crazy, I can confirm I'm not from Ulster, a saddist, manager or whoever else is against it apparently. It's funny to see some of these sweeping statements when it's clear no thought to the concequesnces of these. I've put out there multiple times in detail why I think these won't work so won't again. Like you I feel this will only encourage and reward the mass defence mentality and tactic. One of the worst things though, this is being trialed in the league and we've no idea how it will go, league is too important to try these out in.

If these turn out to be a huge success and we get great games I will be the 1st to hold my hands up and say I was wrong

Well at least they are trying . Unfortunately up North they don;t want to try anything that might improve the game as a spectacle.

This conversation is required as the game has become redundant as a spectator sport.

This may not be the answer but at least we are having the debate.

For me a rule should be brought in that you must have 6 players in the opposition half of the field at all times. People say it's not enforceable . It is as the linesmen are perfectly placed to see it and do largely f*** all anyway except run up the line

Bring it at county level first where the manpower is . Club football largely apes the county game anyway

Trying yes but my fear is they only looked at this in a way that is positive and failed to consider the negative impacts and it's the negative impacts I think will make these rules a massive failure.

On keeping 6 in each half of the pitch, it's not enforcement I would be against, it's the stopping of the attacking wingbacks being allowed come forward and stopping of defenders joining the attack. It would I'm sure make for a more open game but I still feel the likes of carlow, fermanagh etc who have had recent success based on a solid defensive structure I would like to see these teams still be able implement these

I've put forward all of my opinions on why I would love to see 13 a side trialled (And not in a competition as important as the league) so I won't go through it all again

I respect your opinion but 13 a side is insane. Anything that reduces the numbers starting  a game will only reduce the participation numbers which is pointless in my opinion .

Carlow played one forward and got lucky in one game. They in my opinion are not something that should be held up as a reason for teams playing 13 behind the ball .

They were muck to watch. It was like watching a herd of cows rolling in  a field somewhere.

The bottom line is they played a Division 4 team in Croke Park using 13 men behind the ball and were beaten comfortably by a team beaten by 20 points in a Leinster Final by Dublin

If that's progress then I'm all for these new rules

It's time for amalgamations at county level and an emphasis on getting people to watch the game again.

did you read my earlier posts on why i believe 13 a side should be trialed? to call 13 a side insane and then say your all for these new rules i think shows theres not much talking with you.  Carlow got promoted, had some great results by their traditional standards, we cannot compare them to dublin or the other top teams. most teams now league is priority and championship is bonus and as for amalgamations please god no, i would despise supporting a tipp/waterford/kilkenny/wexford south east team.....i want to support tipperary and tipperary alone for better or worse, the same with all the splitting dublin in half, i would hate to see it

Only 4 years ago Carlow finished last in Div 4 so the progress they have made shouldn't be underestimated now. If they manage to stay up in Div 3 next year they will see that as further progress and i'd agree county amalgamations is a total non runner.
Is the ref going to finally blow his whistle?... No, he's going to blow his nose

Joe Mc Nallys Ballsack

Quote from: tippabu on December 22, 2018, 12:40:26 AM
Quote from: Joe Mc Nallys Ballsack on December 22, 2018, 12:24:41 AM
Quote from: tippabu on December 21, 2018, 11:06:40 AM
Quote from: Joe Mc Nallys Ballsack on December 21, 2018, 01:36:59 AM
Quote from: tippabu on December 10, 2018, 01:25:28 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on December 10, 2018, 12:22:26 PM

Is it not apparent to everyone that none of these proposals - least of all the handpass restriction - are going to discourage packing defences? Quite the opposite.



It's crazy, I can confirm I'm not from Ulster, a saddist, manager or whoever else is against it apparently. It's funny to see some of these sweeping statements when it's clear no thought to the concequesnces of these. I've put out there multiple times in detail why I think these won't work so won't again. Like you I feel this will only encourage and reward the mass defence mentality and tactic. One of the worst things though, this is being trialed in the league and we've no idea how it will go, league is too important to try these out in.

If these turn out to be a huge success and we get great games I will be the 1st to hold my hands up and say I was wrong

Well at least they are trying . Unfortunately up North they don;t want to try anything that might improve the game as a spectacle.

This conversation is required as the game has become redundant as a spectator sport.

This may not be the answer but at least we are having the debate.

For me a rule should be brought in that you must have 6 players in the opposition half of the field at all times. People say it's not enforceable . It is as the linesmen are perfectly placed to see it and do largely f*** all anyway except run up the line

Bring it at county level first where the manpower is . Club football largely apes the county game anyway

Trying yes but my fear is they only looked at this in a way that is positive and failed to consider the negative impacts and it's the negative impacts I think will make these rules a massive failure.

On keeping 6 in each half of the pitch, it's not enforcement I would be against, it's the stopping of the attacking wingbacks being allowed come forward and stopping of defenders joining the attack. It would I'm sure make for a more open game but I still feel the likes of carlow, fermanagh etc who have had recent success based on a solid defensive structure I would like to see these teams still be able implement these

I've put forward all of my opinions on why I would love to see 13 a side trialled (And not in a competition as important as the league) so I won't go through it all again

I respect your opinion but 13 a side is insane. Anything that reduces the numbers starting  a game will only reduce the participation numbers which is pointless in my opinion .

Carlow played one forward and got lucky in one game. They in my opinion are not something that should be held up as a reason for teams playing 13 behind the ball .

They were muck to watch. It was like watching a herd of cows rolling in  a field somewhere.

The bottom line is they played a Division 4 team in Croke Park using 13 men behind the ball and were beaten comfortably by a team beaten by 20 points in a Leinster Final by Dublin

If that's progress then I'm all for these new rules

It's time for amalgamations at county level and an emphasis on getting people to watch the game again.

did you read my earlier posts on why i believe 13 a side should be trialed? to call 13 a side insane and then say your all for these new rules i think shows theres not much talking with you.  Carlow got promoted, had some great results by their traditional standards, we cannot compare them to dublin or the other top teams. most teams now league is priority and championship is bonus. and as for amalgamations please god no, i would despise supporting a tipp/waterford/kilkenny/wexford south east team.....i want to support tipperary and tipperary alone for better or worse, the same with all the splitting dublin in half, i would hate to see it

You're only interested in your own opinion. The fact that it's a fundamentally flawed opinion is besides the point.

Carlow are not anything to be copied or applauded for in my opinion. They played a rancid style of football and got lucky in one game against a team that kicked a huge amount of wides

Bar one team they beat teams at their own level. Which is why a tiered championship is required. 

Nobody wants to watch this crap - you do realise that don't you? 13 a side is only a cop out to the defensive gurus who rule the game now

Esmarelda

It appears that increasingly the argument seems to be that, as Jim puts it, "nobody wants to watch this crap", even though that's not the case.

But for those that don't want to watch the game as it is currently (however that is, as each game differs), what is it that you want to see? And who in the GAA decided what it is that we all want to see.

These new rules could be a major breakthrough and the game could changed beyond all expectations for the better. My own view is that they're a terrible attempt and I don't agree that we "needed to do something" if this is the something. I'd much prefer the game how it is now compared to how I perceive it will be under the new rules.

I think the sin bin should've been in when the black card was first tried and find it amusing that they must be now reluctantly adopting it. In the absence of the clock being stopped though, it will lose its effectiveness.

I was open-minded on the mark but having read Paul Broderick's assessment of it my initial fears might be right; a whole lot of low balls in towards the 20m followed by loads of close range frees. A good blanket will stop that.

The sideline ball is too irrelevant to even discuss and the handpass one, although it could have any amount of unintended consequences, I don't see any that ultimately will be positive.

Looking forward to the championship though ;D

DuffleKing

Quote from: Itchy on December 21, 2018, 11:54:38 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on December 10, 2018, 12:22:26 PM

Is it not apparent to everyone that none of these proposals - least of all the handpass restriction - are going to discourage packing defences? Quite the opposite.

Nope. I think 3 handpass rule, while a bit crude, will encourage teams to push up on the opposition and force them into a mistake.

You haven't a clue then

tippabu

Quote from: Joe Mc Nallys Ballsack on December 22, 2018, 01:33:44 AM
Quote from: tippabu on December 22, 2018, 12:40:26 AM
Quote from: Joe Mc Nallys Ballsack on December 22, 2018, 12:24:41 AM
Quote from: tippabu on December 21, 2018, 11:06:40 AM
Quote from: Joe Mc Nallys Ballsack on December 21, 2018, 01:36:59 AM
Quote from: tippabu on December 10, 2018, 01:25:28 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on December 10, 2018, 12:22:26 PM

Is it not apparent to everyone that none of these proposals - least of all the handpass restriction - are going to discourage packing defences? Quite the opposite.



It's crazy, I can confirm I'm not from Ulster, a saddist, manager or whoever else is against it apparently. It's funny to see some of these sweeping statements when it's clear no thought to the concequesnces of these. I've put out there multiple times in detail why I think these won't work so won't again. Like you I feel this will only encourage and reward the mass defence mentality and tactic. One of the worst things though, this is being trialed in the league and we've no idea how it will go, league is too important to try these out in.

If these turn out to be a huge success and we get great games I will be the 1st to hold my hands up and say I was wrong

Well at least they are trying . Unfortunately up North they don;t want to try anything that might improve the game as a spectacle.

This conversation is required as the game has become redundant as a spectator sport.

This may not be the answer but at least we are having the debate.

For me a rule should be brought in that you must have 6 players in the opposition half of the field at all times. People say it's not enforceable . It is as the linesmen are perfectly placed to see it and do largely f*** all anyway except run up the line

Bring it at county level first where the manpower is . Club football largely apes the county game anyway

Trying yes but my fear is they only looked at this in a way that is positive and failed to consider the negative impacts and it's the negative impacts I think will make these rules a massive failure.

On keeping 6 in each half of the pitch, it's not enforcement I would be against, it's the stopping of the attacking wingbacks being allowed come forward and stopping of defenders joining the attack. It would I'm sure make for a more open game but I still feel the likes of carlow, fermanagh etc who have had recent success based on a solid defensive structure I would like to see these teams still be able implement these

I've put forward all of my opinions on why I would love to see 13 a side trialled (And not in a competition as important as the league) so I won't go through it all again

I respect your opinion but 13 a side is insane. Anything that reduces the numbers starting  a game will only reduce the participation numbers which is pointless in my opinion .

Carlow played one forward and got lucky in one game. They in my opinion are not something that should be held up as a reason for teams playing 13 behind the ball .

They were muck to watch. It was like watching a herd of cows rolling in  a field somewhere.

The bottom line is they played a Division 4 team in Croke Park using 13 men behind the ball and were beaten comfortably by a team beaten by 20 points in a Leinster Final by Dublin

If that's progress then I'm all for these new rules

It's time for amalgamations at county level and an emphasis on getting people to watch the game again.

did you read my earlier posts on why i believe 13 a side should be trialed? to call 13 a side insane and then say your all for these new rules i think shows theres not much talking with you.  Carlow got promoted, had some great results by their traditional standards, we cannot compare them to dublin or the other top teams. most teams now league is priority and championship is bonus. and as for amalgamations please god no, i would despise supporting a tipp/waterford/kilkenny/wexford south east team.....i want to support tipperary and tipperary alone for better or worse, the same with all the splitting dublin in half, i would hate to see it

You're only interested in your own opinion. The fact that it's a fundamentally flawed opinion is besides the point.

Carlow are not anything to be copied or applauded for in my opinion. They played a rancid style of football and got lucky in one game against a team that kicked a huge amount of wides

Bar one team they beat teams at their own level. Which is why a tiered championship is required. 

Nobody wants to watch this crap - you do realise that don't you? 13 a side is only a cop out to the defensive gurus who rule the game now

I'm only interested in my opinion? Yes I have an opinion and I voice it in as fair a manner as I can and I think most people on here would see me as a fair and balanced contributor. You are new to the board, one of your 1st posts you make a big sweeping statement that anyone who disagrees with these rules are from Ulster, defensive intercounty manager, gpa or sadist. I have said numerous times I will hold my hands up and admit I am wrong and will be happy if the game improves.

On carlow, I agree with you and said it here myself that until kildare they beat no-one of note and kildare was a freak result where they scored from 100% of their attempts. But still them and fermanagh without being disrespectful have had great relative success, both earned promotion and fermanagh a place in the Ulster final, I despise the style of football but I fully respect it and for me the new rules will most likely only encourage and reward this style of play. I will apologise to everyone now for recycling my old posts but I will put them up again on the rules and 13 a side....and yeah these are only my opinions just like how everyone has an opinion here

............

This was posted a couple of hours after the announcement and something's have changed



My view on each one of these is that you have to look at the most negative aspects of each proposal over the positive. Im not saying these will happen but there is the chance and you can be sure given time to see things in action managers will be coming up for specific ways of playing them. These are my thoughts anyway, may have picked up some wrong things, may have contradicted myself in some of what im saying and most importantly i might be wrong in my thoughts. Every situation needs to be fully thought through before making any radical changes


3 handpasses

Will this turn into a game of rugby league where one team gets so far turns, kicks it back and start over again. Remember we are where we are because teams are overly cautious and dont want to concede possession so i dont think because we limit the handpass teams will all of a sudden start a long range expansive kicking style. Also Dublin who are far and away ahead of everyone, it wouldnt be long before they use this in a way to create turnover, when the ball is in the defending teams half stand off for couple of passes then a huge push on the kickpass.

Sidelines must go forward

Is this really a huge problem? nearly all sideline go back to secure possession and start an attack from there. I can just see this being more of an advantage to the team conceding the sideline than the team who has won it. The defending team will carry on as they do nowdays and attempt to cut out any forward ball and can leave anyone behind the sideline free (reason most sidelines do go back is because this is where the free player is). Also if i was a defender id be trilled to knock a ball out for a sideline around the 21 as a way of defense, gives you time to get organised and you know there is a very small area of the pitch which can be used or youd have a player attempting shots from sidelines which youd take all day long.

Mark inside the 20

Good in theory but will it just lead to inside forwards being double marked and opposition players coming up with a way to combat the threat? This one could work but its one I would like to see in action and see if it is positive or not

Sin Bin

Personal opinion on this, do we really need black cards, sin bins etc? For me leave it at yellow and red cards. A yellow card would suffice for many of the black cards dished out these days, the likes of the infamous sean cavanagh against monaghan rugby tackle, allow a ref to deem that a red card and not be tied down to having to give a yellow due to the rules. If something is gamechanging cynicism then allow a red for it, the likes of checking a run should be a yellow for me.

2 players each only between the 45s for kickouts

Does there need to be two players designated? At what phase of the kickout do these players need to be identified? If you manage to isolate someone who is really quick on your own kickout with a big slower midfielder with all that space it would be as effective as a short kickout, pull your two players to one sideline middle of the field will have to be open, keeper kicks it there and youd back your players to get there 9 times out of 10. Gone would be the days of quick kickouts and the game would be alot more broken up, take fermangh for example, play a very defensive way, each kickout youd have to wait for everyone who was back sweeping to throd up the pitch and back into the opposition half before the ball is kicked, I can see the merit in this because at each restart you are facing into 6 defenders and not a mass defense but dublin against carlow, carlow would get annihilated with how athletic and physical they are, carlow kick out the ball, dublin win it and its 1 v 1 all in the carlow half, most teams would get eaten alive

....................

And my post on 13 a side

I've said it before and I stress I'm not saying I am right but 13 a side. Trialled at sigerson, preseason before thinking about bringing it into league and championship. Positives I think there are are

1. Less players means more space, I fully believe there should be allowance for a defensive set up, carlow and fermanagh for instance I don't think would have had the success of last year without it and with 13 a side you could still implement this but there should be more room to operate and space to find for attacking players.

2. Players are fitter than they have ever been, should be no issue in this regards with less players.

3. It should help counties with a smaller/less talented pick than the bigger counties....I know in tipp and is imagine your own roscommons starting teams would be stronger starting 13 and much better quality of player to be able call off the bench.

4. It would make a huge difference to rural clubs who struggle for numbers.

Honestly I can't think of many negatives but like I said it would need to be trialled and see how games do play out and if anything springs up then.

Itchy

Quote from: DuffleKing on December 22, 2018, 01:07:44 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 21, 2018, 11:54:38 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on December 10, 2018, 12:22:26 PM

Is it not apparent to everyone that none of these proposals - least of all the handpass restriction - are going to discourage packing defences? Quite the opposite.

Nope. I think 3 handpass rule, while a bit crude, will encourage teams to push up on the opposition and force them into a mistake.

You haven't a clue then

Fantastic comment. You really showed me. If only I knew as much about football as you, I can only dream.

tippabu

Quote from: Itchy on December 23, 2018, 09:26:15 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on December 22, 2018, 01:07:44 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 21, 2018, 11:54:38 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on December 10, 2018, 12:22:26 PM

Is it not apparent to everyone that none of these proposals - least of all the handpass restriction - are going to discourage packing defences? Quite the opposite.

Nope. I think 3 handpass rule, while a bit crude, will encourage teams to push up on the opposition and force them into a mistake.

You haven't a clue then

Fantastic comment. You really showed me. If only I knew as much about football as you, I can only dream.

I gave a reply on the last page why I think it won't happen as you hope for the vast majority of teams....it's similar to Dublins brilliant, effective tactic of keep ball at the end of games, it look horrible but even last 5 mins losing teams who needed to get the ball back were afraid to push up and lose structure...I can't see that changing and structure will still outweigh the opportunity of a turnover.....I think anyway

Itchy

Quote from: tippabu on December 23, 2018, 09:45:05 AM
Quote from: Itchy on December 23, 2018, 09:26:15 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on December 22, 2018, 01:07:44 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 21, 2018, 11:54:38 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on December 10, 2018, 12:22:26 PM

Is it not apparent to everyone that none of these proposals - least of all the handpass restriction - are going to discourage packing defences? Quite the opposite.

Nope. I think 3 handpass rule, while a bit crude, will encourage teams to push up on the opposition and force them into a mistake.

You haven't a clue then

Fantastic comment. You really showed me. If only I knew as much about football as you, I can only dream.

I gave a reply on the last page why I think it won't happen as you hope for the vast majority of teams....it's similar to Dublins brilliant, effective tactic of keep ball at the end of games, it look horrible but even last 5 mins losing teams who needed to get the ball back were afraid to push up and lose structure...I can't see that changing and structure will still outweigh the opportunity of a turnover.....I think anyway

I disagree. It's relatively easy to maintain possession using handpasses even when under pressure. A kick pass under pressure is more likely to go astray in my opinion so I think some coaches will opt to push up harder, dispossesing the opposition close to their own goals. The big problem is the coach guru who try make football sound more complicated than it really is. They don't like change. In fact have you ever seen a sport where change is resisted so much.

Joe Mc Nallys Ballsack

Quote from: tippabu on December 22, 2018, 03:19:27 PM
Quote from: Joe Mc Nallys Ballsack on December 22, 2018, 01:33:44 AM
Quote from: tippabu on December 22, 2018, 12:40:26 AM
Quote from: Joe Mc Nallys Ballsack on December 22, 2018, 12:24:41 AM
Quote from: tippabu on December 21, 2018, 11:06:40 AM
Quote from: Joe Mc Nallys Ballsack on December 21, 2018, 01:36:59 AM
Quote from: tippabu on December 10, 2018, 01:25:28 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on December 10, 2018, 12:22:26 PM

Is it not apparent to everyone that none of these proposals - least of all the handpass restriction - are going to discourage packing defences? Quite the opposite.



It's crazy, I can confirm I'm not from Ulster, a saddist, manager or whoever else is against it apparently. It's funny to see some of these sweeping statements when it's clear no thought to the concequesnces of these. I've put out there multiple times in detail why I think these won't work so won't again. Like you I feel this will only encourage and reward the mass defence mentality and tactic. One of the worst things though, this is being trialed in the league and we've no idea how it will go, league is too important to try these out in.

If these turn out to be a huge success and we get great games I will be the 1st to hold my hands up and say I was wrong

Well at least they are trying . Unfortunately up North they don;t want to try anything that might improve the game as a spectacle.

This conversation is required as the game has become redundant as a spectator sport.

This may not be the answer but at least we are having the debate.

For me a rule should be brought in that you must have 6 players in the opposition half of the field at all times. People say it's not enforceable . It is as the linesmen are perfectly placed to see it and do largely f*** all anyway except run up the line

Bring it at county level first where the manpower is . Club football largely apes the county game anyway

Trying yes but my fear is they only looked at this in a way that is positive and failed to consider the negative impacts and it's the negative impacts I think will make these rules a massive failure.

On keeping 6 in each half of the pitch, it's not enforcement I would be against, it's the stopping of the attacking wingbacks being allowed come forward and stopping of defenders joining the attack. It would I'm sure make for a more open game but I still feel the likes of carlow, fermanagh etc who have had recent success based on a solid defensive structure I would like to see these teams still be able implement these

I've put forward all of my opinions on why I would love to see 13 a side trialled (And not in a competition as important as the league) so I won't go through it all again

I respect your opinion but 13 a side is insane. Anything that reduces the numbers starting  a game will only reduce the participation numbers which is pointless in my opinion .

Carlow played one forward and got lucky in one game. They in my opinion are not something that should be held up as a reason for teams playing 13 behind the ball .

They were muck to watch. It was like watching a herd of cows rolling in  a field somewhere.

The bottom line is they played a Division 4 team in Croke Park using 13 men behind the ball and were beaten comfortably by a team beaten by 20 points in a Leinster Final by Dublin

If that's progress then I'm all for these new rules

It's time for amalgamations at county level and an emphasis on getting people to watch the game again.

did you read my earlier posts on why i believe 13 a side should be trialed? to call 13 a side insane and then say your all for these new rules i think shows theres not much talking with you.  Carlow got promoted, had some great results by their traditional standards, we cannot compare them to dublin or the other top teams. most teams now league is priority and championship is bonus. and as for amalgamations please god no, i would despise supporting a tipp/waterford/kilkenny/wexford south east team.....i want to support tipperary and tipperary alone for better or worse, the same with all the splitting dublin in half, i would hate to see it

You're only interested in your own opinion. The fact that it's a fundamentally flawed opinion is besides the point.

Carlow are not anything to be copied or applauded for in my opinion. They played a rancid style of football and got lucky in one game against a team that kicked a huge amount of wides

Bar one team they beat teams at their own level. Which is why a tiered championship is required. 

Nobody wants to watch this crap - you do realise that don't you? 13 a side is only a cop out to the defensive gurus who rule the game now

I'm only interested in my opinion? Yes I have an opinion and I voice it in as fair a manner as I can and I think most people on here would see me as a fair and balanced contributor. You are new to the board, one of your 1st posts you make a big sweeping statement that anyone who disagrees with these rules are from Ulster, defensive intercounty manager, gpa or sadist. I have said numerous times I will hold my hands up and admit I am wrong and will be happy if the game improves.

On carlow, I agree with you and said it here myself that until kildare they beat no-one of note and kildare was a freak result where they scored from 100% of their attempts. But still them and fermanagh without being disrespectful have had great relative success, both earned promotion and fermanagh a place in the Ulster final, I despise the style of football but I fully respect it and for me the new rules will most likely only encourage and reward this style of play. I will apologise to everyone now for recycling my old posts but I will put them up again on the rules and 13 a side....and yeah these are only my opinions just like how everyone has an opinion here

............

This was posted a couple of hours after the announcement and something's have changed



My view on each one of these is that you have to look at the most negative aspects of each proposal over the positive. Im not saying these will happen but there is the chance and you can be sure given time to see things in action managers will be coming up for specific ways of playing them. These are my thoughts anyway, may have picked up some wrong things, may have contradicted myself in some of what im saying and most importantly i might be wrong in my thoughts. Every situation needs to be fully thought through before making any radical changes


3 handpasses

Will this turn into a game of rugby league where one team gets so far turns, kicks it back and start over again. Remember we are where we are because teams are overly cautious and dont want to concede possession so i dont think because we limit the handpass teams will all of a sudden start a long range expansive kicking style. Also Dublin who are far and away ahead of everyone, it wouldnt be long before they use this in a way to create turnover, when the ball is in the defending teams half stand off for couple of passes then a huge push on the kickpass.

Sidelines must go forward

Is this really a huge problem? nearly all sideline go back to secure possession and start an attack from there. I can just see this being more of an advantage to the team conceding the sideline than the team who has won it. The defending team will carry on as they do nowdays and attempt to cut out any forward ball and can leave anyone behind the sideline free (reason most sidelines do go back is because this is where the free player is). Also if i was a defender id be trilled to knock a ball out for a sideline around the 21 as a way of defense, gives you time to get organised and you know there is a very small area of the pitch which can be used or youd have a player attempting shots from sidelines which youd take all day long.

Mark inside the 20

Good in theory but will it just lead to inside forwards being double marked and opposition players coming up with a way to combat the threat? This one could work but its one I would like to see in action and see if it is positive or not

Sin Bin

Personal opinion on this, do we really need black cards, sin bins etc? For me leave it at yellow and red cards. A yellow card would suffice for many of the black cards dished out these days, the likes of the infamous sean cavanagh against monaghan rugby tackle, allow a ref to deem that a red card and not be tied down to having to give a yellow due to the rules. If something is gamechanging cynicism then allow a red for it, the likes of checking a run should be a yellow for me.

2 players each only between the 45s for kickouts

Does there need to be two players designated? At what phase of the kickout do these players need to be identified? If you manage to isolate someone who is really quick on your own kickout with a big slower midfielder with all that space it would be as effective as a short kickout, pull your two players to one sideline middle of the field will have to be open, keeper kicks it there and youd back your players to get there 9 times out of 10. Gone would be the days of quick kickouts and the game would be alot more broken up, take fermangh for example, play a very defensive way, each kickout youd have to wait for everyone who was back sweeping to throd up the pitch and back into the opposition half before the ball is kicked, I can see the merit in this because at each restart you are facing into 6 defenders and not a mass defense but dublin against carlow, carlow would get annihilated with how athletic and physical they are, carlow kick out the ball, dublin win it and its 1 v 1 all in the carlow half, most teams would get eaten alive

....................

And my post on 13 a side

I've said it before and I stress I'm not saying I am right but 13 a side. Trialled at sigerson, preseason before thinking about bringing it into league and championship. Positives I think there are are

1. Less players means more space, I fully believe there should be allowance for a defensive set up, carlow and fermanagh for instance I don't think would have had the success of last year without it and with 13 a side you could still implement this but there should be more room to operate and space to find for attacking players.

2. Players are fitter than they have ever been, should be no issue in this regards with less players.

3. It should help counties with a smaller/less talented pick than the bigger counties....I know in tipp and is imagine your own roscommons starting teams would be stronger starting 13 and much better quality of player to be able call off the bench.

4. It would make a huge difference to rural clubs who struggle for numbers.

Honestly I can't think of many negatives but like I said it would need to be trialled and see how games do play out and if anything springs up then.

You're entitled to your view but 13 a side is a cop out to defensive gurus

There is no need to reduce the numbers whatsoever with a proper rules structure that rewards teams that want to go forward with the ball as oppose to backwards.

There is no game more resistant to rule changes then Gaelic Football.

As it's permeated by defensive gurus who have made careers in turning the game into the shite it resembles now

tippabu

Quote from: Joe Mc Nallys Ballsack on December 25, 2018, 11:58:49 PM
Quote from: tippabu on December 22, 2018, 03:19:27 PM
Quote from: Joe Mc Nallys Ballsack on December 22, 2018, 01:33:44 AM
Quote from: tippabu on December 22, 2018, 12:40:26 AM
Quote from: Joe Mc Nallys Ballsack on December 22, 2018, 12:24:41 AM
Quote from: tippabu on December 21, 2018, 11:06:40 AM
Quote from: Joe Mc Nallys Ballsack on December 21, 2018, 01:36:59 AM
Quote from: tippabu on December 10, 2018, 01:25:28 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on December 10, 2018, 12:22:26 PM

Is it not apparent to everyone that none of these proposals - least of all the handpass restriction - are going to discourage packing defences? Quite the opposite.



It's crazy, I can confirm I'm not from Ulster, a saddist, manager or whoever else is against it apparently. It's funny to see some of these sweeping statements when it's clear no thought to the concequesnces of these. I've put out there multiple times in detail why I think these won't work so won't again. Like you I feel this will only encourage and reward the mass defence mentality and tactic. One of the worst things though, this is being trialed in the league and we've no idea how it will go, league is too important to try these out in.

If these turn out to be a huge success and we get great games I will be the 1st to hold my hands up and say I was wrong

Well at least they are trying . Unfortunately up North they don;t want to try anything that might improve the game as a spectacle.

This conversation is required as the game has become redundant as a spectator sport.

This may not be the answer but at least we are having the debate.

For me a rule should be brought in that you must have 6 players in the opposition half of the field at all times. People say it's not enforceable . It is as the linesmen are perfectly placed to see it and do largely f*** all anyway except run up the line

Bring it at county level first where the manpower is . Club football largely apes the county game anyway

Trying yes but my fear is they only looked at this in a way that is positive and failed to consider the negative impacts and it's the negative impacts I think will make these rules a massive failure.

On keeping 6 in each half of the pitch, it's not enforcement I would be against, it's the stopping of the attacking wingbacks being allowed come forward and stopping of defenders joining the attack. It would I'm sure make for a more open game but I still feel the likes of carlow, fermanagh etc who have had recent success based on a solid defensive structure I would like to see these teams still be able implement these

I've put forward all of my opinions on why I would love to see 13 a side trialled (And not in a competition as important as the league) so I won't go through it all again

I respect your opinion but 13 a side is insane. Anything that reduces the numbers starting  a game will only reduce the participation numbers which is pointless in my opinion .

Carlow played one forward and got lucky in one game. They in my opinion are not something that should be held up as a reason for teams playing 13 behind the ball .

They were muck to watch. It was like watching a herd of cows rolling in  a field somewhere.

The bottom line is they played a Division 4 team in Croke Park using 13 men behind the ball and were beaten comfortably by a team beaten by 20 points in a Leinster Final by Dublin

If that's progress then I'm all for these new rules

It's time for amalgamations at county level and an emphasis on getting people to watch the game again.

did you read my earlier posts on why i believe 13 a side should be trialed? to call 13 a side insane and then say your all for these new rules i think shows theres not much talking with you.  Carlow got promoted, had some great results by their traditional standards, we cannot compare them to dublin or the other top teams. most teams now league is priority and championship is bonus. and as for amalgamations please god no, i would despise supporting a tipp/waterford/kilkenny/wexford south east team.....i want to support tipperary and tipperary alone for better or worse, the same with all the splitting dublin in half, i would hate to see it

You're only interested in your own opinion. The fact that it's a fundamentally flawed opinion is besides the point.

Carlow are not anything to be copied or applauded for in my opinion. They played a rancid style of football and got lucky in one game against a team that kicked a huge amount of wides

Bar one team they beat teams at their own level. Which is why a tiered championship is required. 

Nobody wants to watch this crap - you do realise that don't you? 13 a side is only a cop out to the defensive gurus who rule the game now

I'm only interested in my opinion? Yes I have an opinion and I voice it in as fair a manner as I can and I think most people on here would see me as a fair and balanced contributor. You are new to the board, one of your 1st posts you make a big sweeping statement that anyone who disagrees with these rules are from Ulster, defensive intercounty manager, gpa or sadist. I have said numerous times I will hold my hands up and admit I am wrong and will be happy if the game improves.

On carlow, I agree with you and said it here myself that until kildare they beat no-one of note and kildare was a freak result where they scored from 100% of their attempts. But still them and fermanagh without being disrespectful have had great relative success, both earned promotion and fermanagh a place in the Ulster final, I despise the style of football but I fully respect it and for me the new rules will most likely only encourage and reward this style of play. I will apologise to everyone now for recycling my old posts but I will put them up again on the rules and 13 a side....and yeah these are only my opinions just like how everyone has an opinion here

............

This was posted a couple of hours after the announcement and something's have changed



My view on each one of these is that you have to look at the most negative aspects of each proposal over the positive. Im not saying these will happen but there is the chance and you can be sure given time to see things in action managers will be coming up for specific ways of playing them. These are my thoughts anyway, may have picked up some wrong things, may have contradicted myself in some of what im saying and most importantly i might be wrong in my thoughts. Every situation needs to be fully thought through before making any radical changes


3 handpasses

Will this turn into a game of rugby league where one team gets so far turns, kicks it back and start over again. Remember we are where we are because teams are overly cautious and dont want to concede possession so i dont think because we limit the handpass teams will all of a sudden start a long range expansive kicking style. Also Dublin who are far and away ahead of everyone, it wouldnt be long before they use this in a way to create turnover, when the ball is in the defending teams half stand off for couple of passes then a huge push on the kickpass.

Sidelines must go forward

Is this really a huge problem? nearly all sideline go back to secure possession and start an attack from there. I can just see this being more of an advantage to the team conceding the sideline than the team who has won it. The defending team will carry on as they do nowdays and attempt to cut out any forward ball and can leave anyone behind the sideline free (reason most sidelines do go back is because this is where the free player is). Also if i was a defender id be trilled to knock a ball out for a sideline around the 21 as a way of defense, gives you time to get organised and you know there is a very small area of the pitch which can be used or youd have a player attempting shots from sidelines which youd take all day long.

Mark inside the 20

Good in theory but will it just lead to inside forwards being double marked and opposition players coming up with a way to combat the threat? This one could work but its one I would like to see in action and see if it is positive or not

Sin Bin

Personal opinion on this, do we really need black cards, sin bins etc? For me leave it at yellow and red cards. A yellow card would suffice for many of the black cards dished out these days, the likes of the infamous sean cavanagh against monaghan rugby tackle, allow a ref to deem that a red card and not be tied down to having to give a yellow due to the rules. If something is gamechanging cynicism then allow a red for it, the likes of checking a run should be a yellow for me.

2 players each only between the 45s for kickouts

Does there need to be two players designated? At what phase of the kickout do these players need to be identified? If you manage to isolate someone who is really quick on your own kickout with a big slower midfielder with all that space it would be as effective as a short kickout, pull your two players to one sideline middle of the field will have to be open, keeper kicks it there and youd back your players to get there 9 times out of 10. Gone would be the days of quick kickouts and the game would be alot more broken up, take fermangh for example, play a very defensive way, each kickout youd have to wait for everyone who was back sweeping to throd up the pitch and back into the opposition half before the ball is kicked, I can see the merit in this because at each restart you are facing into 6 defenders and not a mass defense but dublin against carlow, carlow would get annihilated with how athletic and physical they are, carlow kick out the ball, dublin win it and its 1 v 1 all in the carlow half, most teams would get eaten alive

....................

And my post on 13 a side

I've said it before and I stress I'm not saying I am right but 13 a side. Trialled at sigerson, preseason before thinking about bringing it into league and championship. Positives I think there are are

1. Less players means more space, I fully believe there should be allowance for a defensive set up, carlow and fermanagh for instance I don't think would have had the success of last year without it and with 13 a side you could still implement this but there should be more room to operate and space to find for attacking players.

2. Players are fitter than they have ever been, should be no issue in this regards with less players.

3. It should help counties with a smaller/less talented pick than the bigger counties....I know in tipp and is imagine your own roscommons starting teams would be stronger starting 13 and much better quality of player to be able call off the bench.

4. It would make a huge difference to rural clubs who struggle for numbers.

Honestly I can't think of many negatives but like I said it would need to be trialled and see how games do play out and if anything springs up then.

You're entitled to your view but 13 a side is a cop out to defensive gurus

There is no need to reduce the numbers whatsoever with a proper rules structure that rewards teams that want to go forward with the ball as oppose to backwards.

There is no game more resistant to rule changes then Gaelic Football.

As it's permeated by defensive gurus who have made careers in turning the game into the shite it resembles now

agreed but from my very little lack of involvement but major interest and spectating ive thought long and hard and im yet to come up with a way to counter the blanket defense and yes i think in the chicken or the egg argument the blanket defense came first and the handpassing problem is a product of this and i am worried we arent tackling the right thing. Like everyone, i would much rather a much more open and free flowing game

joemamas

Quote from: Joe Mc Nallys Ballsack on December 25, 2018, 11:58:49 PM
Quote from: tippabu on December 22, 2018, 03:19:27 PM
Quote from: Joe Mc Nallys Ballsack on December 22, 2018, 01:33:44 AM
Quote from: tippabu on December 22, 2018, 12:40:26 AM
Quote from: Joe Mc Nallys Ballsack on December 22, 2018, 12:24:41 AM
Quote from: tippabu on December 21, 2018, 11:06:40 AM
Quote from: Joe Mc Nallys Ballsack on December 21, 2018, 01:36:59 AM
Quote from: tippabu on December 10, 2018, 01:25:28 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on December 10, 2018, 12:22:26 PM

Is it not apparent to everyone that none of these proposals - least of all the handpass restriction - are going to discourage packing defences? Quite the opposite.



It's crazy, I can confirm I'm not from Ulster, a saddist, manager or whoever else is against it apparently. It's funny to see some of these sweeping statements when it's clear no thought to the concequesnces of these. I've put out there multiple times in detail why I think these won't work so won't again. Like you I feel this will only encourage and reward the mass defence mentality and tactic. One of the worst things though, this is being trialed in the league and we've no idea how it will go, league is too important to try these out in.

If these turn out to be a huge success and we get great games I will be the 1st to hold my hands up and say I was wrong

Well at least they are trying . Unfortunately up North they don;t want to try anything that might improve the game as a spectacle.

This conversation is required as the game has become redundant as a spectator sport.

This may not be the answer but at least we are having the debate.

For me a rule should be brought in that you must have 6 players in the opposition half of the field at all times. People say it's not enforceable . It is as the linesmen are perfectly placed to see it and do largely f*** all anyway except run up the line

Bring it at county level first where the manpower is . Club football largely apes the county game anyway

Trying yes but my fear is they only looked at this in a way that is positive and failed to consider the negative impacts and it's the negative impacts I think will make these rules a massive failure.

On keeping 6 in each half of the pitch, it's not enforcement I would be against, it's the stopping of the attacking wingbacks being allowed come forward and stopping of defenders joining the attack. It would I'm sure make for a more open game but I still feel the likes of carlow, fermanagh etc who have had recent success based on a solid defensive structure I would like to see these teams still be able implement these

I've put forward all of my opinions on why I would love to see 13 a side trialled (And not in a competition as important as the league) so I won't go through it all again

I respect your opinion but 13 a side is insane. Anything that reduces the numbers starting  a game will only reduce the participation numbers which is pointless in my opinion .

Carlow played one forward and got lucky in one game. They in my opinion are not something that should be held up as a reason for teams playing 13 behind the ball .

They were muck to watch. It was like watching a herd of cows rolling in  a field somewhere.

The bottom line is they played a Division 4 team in Croke Park using 13 men behind the ball and were beaten comfortably by a team beaten by 20 points in a Leinster Final by Dublin

If that's progress then I'm all for these new rules

It's time for amalgamations at county level and an emphasis on getting people to watch the game again.

did you read my earlier posts on why i believe 13 a side should be trialed? to call 13 a side insane and then say your all for these new rules i think shows theres not much talking with you.  Carlow got promoted, had some great results by their traditional standards, we cannot compare them to dublin or the other top teams. most teams now league is priority and championship is bonus. and as for amalgamations please god no, i would despise supporting a tipp/waterford/kilkenny/wexford south east team.....i want to support tipperary and tipperary alone for better or worse, the same with all the splitting dublin in half, i would hate to see it

You're only interested in your own opinion. The fact that it's a fundamentally flawed opinion is besides the point.

Carlow are not anything to be copied or applauded for in my opinion. They played a rancid style of football and got lucky in one game against a team that kicked a huge amount of wides

Bar one team they beat teams at their own level. Which is why a tiered championship is required. 

Nobody wants to watch this crap - you do realise that don't you? 13 a side is only a cop out to the defensive gurus who rule the game now

I'm only interested in my opinion? Yes I have an opinion and I voice it in as fair a manner as I can and I think most people on here would see me as a fair and balanced contributor. You are new to the board, one of your 1st posts you make a big sweeping statement that anyone who disagrees with these rules are from Ulster, defensive intercounty manager, gpa or sadist. I have said numerous times I will hold my hands up and admit I am wrong and will be happy if the game improves.

On carlow, I agree with you and said it here myself that until kildare they beat no-one of note and kildare was a freak result where they scored from 100% of their attempts. But still them and fermanagh without being disrespectful have had great relative success, both earned promotion and fermanagh a place in the Ulster final, I despise the style of football but I fully respect it and for me the new rules will most likely only encourage and reward this style of play. I will apologise to everyone now for recycling my old posts but I will put them up again on the rules and 13 a side....and yeah these are only my opinions just like how everyone has an opinion here

............

This was posted a couple of hours after the announcement and something's have changed



My view on each one of these is that you have to look at the most negative aspects of each proposal over the positive. Im not saying these will happen but there is the chance and you can be sure given time to see things in action managers will be coming up for specific ways of playing them. These are my thoughts anyway, may have picked up some wrong things, may have contradicted myself in some of what im saying and most importantly i might be wrong in my thoughts. Every situation needs to be fully thought through before making any radical changes


3 handpasses

Will this turn into a game of rugby league where one team gets so far turns, kicks it back and start over again. Remember we are where we are because teams are overly cautious and dont want to concede possession so i dont think because we limit the handpass teams will all of a sudden start a long range expansive kicking style. Also Dublin who are far and away ahead of everyone, it wouldnt be long before they use this in a way to create turnover, when the ball is in the defending teams half stand off for couple of passes then a huge push on the kickpass.

Sidelines must go forward

Is this really a huge problem? nearly all sideline go back to secure possession and start an attack from there. I can just see this being more of an advantage to the team conceding the sideline than the team who has won it. The defending team will carry on as they do nowdays and attempt to cut out any forward ball and can leave anyone behind the sideline free (reason most sidelines do go back is because this is where the free player is). Also if i was a defender id be trilled to knock a ball out for a sideline around the 21 as a way of defense, gives you time to get organised and you know there is a very small area of the pitch which can be used or youd have a player attempting shots from sidelines which youd take all day long.

Mark inside the 20

Good in theory but will it just lead to inside forwards being double marked and opposition players coming up with a way to combat the threat? This one could work but its one I would like to see in action and see if it is positive or not

Sin Bin

Personal opinion on this, do we really need black cards, sin bins etc? For me leave it at yellow and red cards. A yellow card would suffice for many of the black cards dished out these days, the likes of the infamous sean cavanagh against monaghan rugby tackle, allow a ref to deem that a red card and not be tied down to having to give a yellow due to the rules. If something is gamechanging cynicism then allow a red for it, the likes of checking a run should be a yellow for me.

2 players each only between the 45s for kickouts

Does there need to be two players designated? At what phase of the kickout do these players need to be identified? If you manage to isolate someone who is really quick on your own kickout with a big slower midfielder with all that space it would be as effective as a short kickout, pull your two players to one sideline middle of the field will have to be open, keeper kicks it there and youd back your players to get there 9 times out of 10. Gone would be the days of quick kickouts and the game would be alot more broken up, take fermangh for example, play a very defensive way, each kickout youd have to wait for everyone who was back sweeping to throd up the pitch and back into the opposition half before the ball is kicked, I can see the merit in this because at each restart you are facing into 6 defenders and not a mass defense but dublin against carlow, carlow would get annihilated with how athletic and physical they are, carlow kick out the ball, dublin win it and its 1 v 1 all in the carlow half, most teams would get eaten alive

....................

And my post on 13 a side

I've said it before and I stress I'm not saying I am right but 13 a side. Trialled at sigerson, preseason before thinking about bringing it into league and championship. Positives I think there are are

1. Less players means more space, I fully believe there should be allowance for a defensive set up, carlow and fermanagh for instance I don't think would have had the success of last year without it and with 13 a side you could still implement this but there should be more room to operate and space to find for attacking players.

2. Players are fitter than they have ever been, should be no issue in this regards with less players.

3. It should help counties with a smaller/less talented pick than the bigger counties....I know in tipp and is imagine your own roscommons starting teams would be stronger starting 13 and much better quality of player to be able call off the bench.

4. It would make a huge difference to rural clubs who struggle for numbers.

Honestly I can't think of many negatives but like I said it would need to be trialled and see how games do play out and if anything springs up then.

You're entitled to your view but 13 a side is a cop out to defensive gurus

There is no need to reduce the numbers whatsoever with a proper rules structure that rewards teams that want to go forward with the ball as oppose to backwards.

There is no game more resistant to rule changes then Gaelic Football.

As it's permeated by defensive gurus who have made careers in turning the game into the shite it resembles now

Totally agree, you could even substitute "chancers" for defensive gurus

sligoman2

Quote from: joemamas on December 26, 2018, 03:17:27 PM
Quote from: Joe Mc Nallys Ballsack on December 25, 2018, 11:58:49 PM
Quote from: tippabu on December 22, 2018, 03:19:27 PM
Quote from: Joe Mc Nallys Ballsack on December 22, 2018, 01:33:44 AM
Quote from: tippabu on December 22, 2018, 12:40:26 AM
Quote from: Joe Mc Nallys Ballsack on December 22, 2018, 12:24:41 AM
Quote from: tippabu on December 21, 2018, 11:06:40 AM
Quote from: Joe Mc Nallys Ballsack on December 21, 2018, 01:36:59 AM
Quote from: tippabu on December 10, 2018, 01:25:28 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on December 10, 2018, 12:22:26 PM

Is it not apparent to everyone that none of these proposals - least of all the handpass restriction - are going to discourage packing defences? Quite the opposite.



It's crazy, I can confirm I'm not from Ulster, a saddist, manager or whoever else is against it apparently. It's funny to see some of these sweeping statements when it's clear no thought to the concequesnces of these. I've put out there multiple times in detail why I think these won't work so won't again. Like you I feel this will only encourage and reward the mass defence mentality and tactic. One of the worst things though, this is being trialed in the league and we've no idea how it will go, league is too important to try these out in.

If these turn out to be a huge success and we get great games I will be the 1st to hold my hands up and say I was wrong

Well at least they are trying . Unfortunately up North they don;t want to try anything that might improve the game as a spectacle.

This conversation is required as the game has become redundant as a spectator sport.

This may not be the answer but at least we are having the debate.

For me a rule should be brought in that you must have 6 players in the opposition half of the field at all times. People say it's not enforceable . It is as the linesmen are perfectly placed to see it and do largely f*** all anyway except run up the line

Bring it at county level first where the manpower is . Club football largely apes the county game anyway

Trying yes but my fear is they only looked at this in a way that is positive and failed to consider the negative impacts and it's the negative impacts I think will make these rules a massive failure.

On keeping 6 in each half of the pitch, it's not enforcement I would be against, it's the stopping of the attacking wingbacks being allowed come forward and stopping of defenders joining the attack. It would I'm sure make for a more open game but I still feel the likes of carlow, fermanagh etc who have had recent success based on a solid defensive structure I would like to see these teams still be able implement these

I've put forward all of my opinions on why I would love to see 13 a side trialled (And not in a competition as important as the league) so I won't go through it all again

I respect your opinion but 13 a side is insane. Anything that reduces the numbers starting  a game will only reduce the participation numbers which is pointless in my opinion .

Carlow played one forward and got lucky in one game. They in my opinion are not something that should be held up as a reason for teams playing 13 behind the ball .

They were muck to watch. It was like watching a herd of cows rolling in  a field somewhere.

The bottom line is they played a Division 4 team in Croke Park using 13 men behind the ball and were beaten comfortably by a team beaten by 20 points in a Leinster Final by Dublin

If that's progress then I'm all for these new rules

It's time for amalgamations at county level and an emphasis on getting people to watch the game again.

did you read my earlier posts on why i believe 13 a side should be trialed? to call 13 a side insane and then say your all for these new rules i think shows theres not much talking with you.  Carlow got promoted, had some great results by their traditional standards, we cannot compare them to dublin or the other top teams. most teams now league is priority and championship is bonus. and as for amalgamations please god no, i would despise supporting a tipp/waterford/kilkenny/wexford south east team.....i want to support tipperary and tipperary alone for better or worse, the same with all the splitting dublin in half, i would hate to see it

You're only interested in your own opinion. The fact that it's a fundamentally flawed opinion is besides the point.

Carlow are not anything to be copied or applauded for in my opinion. They played a rancid style of football and got lucky in one game against a team that kicked a huge amount of wides

Bar one team they beat teams at their own level. Which is why a tiered championship is required. 

Nobody wants to watch this crap - you do realise that don't you? 13 a side is only a cop out to the defensive gurus who rule the game now

I'm only interested in my opinion? Yes I have an opinion and I voice it in as fair a manner as I can and I think most people on here would see me as a fair and balanced contributor. You are new to the board, one of your 1st posts you make a big sweeping statement that anyone who disagrees with these rules are from Ulster, defensive intercounty manager, gpa or sadist. I have said numerous times I will hold my hands up and admit I am wrong and will be happy if the game improves.

On carlow, I agree with you and said it here myself that until kildare they beat no-one of note and kildare was a freak result where they scored from 100% of their attempts. But still them and fermanagh without being disrespectful have had great relative success, both earned promotion and fermanagh a place in the Ulster final, I despise the style of football but I fully respect it and for me the new rules will most likely only encourage and reward this style of play. I will apologise to everyone now for recycling my old posts but I will put them up again on the rules and 13 a side....and yeah these are only my opinions just like how everyone has an opinion here

............

This was posted a couple of hours after the announcement and something's have changed



My view on each one of these is that you have to look at the most negative aspects of each proposal over the positive. Im not saying these will happen but there is the chance and you can be sure given time to see things in action managers will be coming up for specific ways of playing them. These are my thoughts anyway, may have picked up some wrong things, may have contradicted myself in some of what im saying and most importantly i might be wrong in my thoughts. Every situation needs to be fully thought through before making any radical changes


3 handpasses

Will this turn into a game of rugby league where one team gets so far turns, kicks it back and start over again. Remember we are where we are because teams are overly cautious and dont want to concede possession so i dont think because we limit the handpass teams will all of a sudden start a long range expansive kicking style. Also Dublin who are far and away ahead of everyone, it wouldnt be long before they use this in a way to create turnover, when the ball is in the defending teams half stand off for couple of passes then a huge push on the kickpass.

Sidelines must go forward

Is this really a huge problem? nearly all sideline go back to secure possession and start an attack from there. I can just see this being more of an advantage to the team conceding the sideline than the team who has won it. The defending team will carry on as they do nowdays and attempt to cut out any forward ball and can leave anyone behind the sideline free (reason most sidelines do go back is because this is where the free player is). Also if i was a defender id be trilled to knock a ball out for a sideline around the 21 as a way of defense, gives you time to get organised and you know there is a very small area of the pitch which can be used or youd have a player attempting shots from sidelines which youd take all day long.

Mark inside the 20

Good in theory but will it just lead to inside forwards being double marked and opposition players coming up with a way to combat the threat? This one could work but its one I would like to see in action and see if it is positive or not

Sin Bin

Personal opinion on this, do we really need black cards, sin bins etc? For me leave it at yellow and red cards. A yellow card would suffice for many of the black cards dished out these days, the likes of the infamous sean cavanagh against monaghan rugby tackle, allow a ref to deem that a red card and not be tied down to having to give a yellow due to the rules. If something is gamechanging cynicism then allow a red for it, the likes of checking a run should be a yellow for me.

2 players each only between the 45s for kickouts

Does there need to be two players designated? At what phase of the kickout do these players need to be identified? If you manage to isolate someone who is really quick on your own kickout with a big slower midfielder with all that space it would be as effective as a short kickout, pull your two players to one sideline middle of the field will have to be open, keeper kicks it there and youd back your players to get there 9 times out of 10. Gone would be the days of quick kickouts and the game would be alot more broken up, take fermangh for example, play a very defensive way, each kickout youd have to wait for everyone who was back sweeping to throd up the pitch and back into the opposition half before the ball is kicked, I can see the merit in this because at each restart you are facing into 6 defenders and not a mass defense but dublin against carlow, carlow would get annihilated with how athletic and physical they are, carlow kick out the ball, dublin win it and its 1 v 1 all in the carlow half, most teams would get eaten alive

....................

And my post on 13 a side

I've said it before and I stress I'm not saying I am right but 13 a side. Trialled at sigerson, preseason before thinking about bringing it into league and championship. Positives I think there are are

1. Less players means more space, I fully believe there should be allowance for a defensive set up, carlow and fermanagh for instance I don't think would have had the success of last year without it and with 13 a side you could still implement this but there should be more room to operate and space to find for attacking players.

2. Players are fitter than they have ever been, should be no issue in this regards with less players.

3. It should help counties with a smaller/less talented pick than the bigger counties....I know in tipp and is imagine your own roscommons starting teams would be stronger starting 13 and much better quality of player to be able call off the bench.

4. It would make a huge difference to rural clubs who struggle for numbers.

Honestly I can't think of many negatives but like I said it would need to be trialled and see how games do play out and if anything springs up then.

You're entitled to your view but 13 a side is a cop out to defensive gurus

There is no need to reduce the numbers whatsoever with a proper rules structure that rewards teams that want to go forward with the ball as oppose to backwards.

There is no game more resistant to rule changes then Gaelic Football.

As it's permeated by defensive gurus who have made careers in turning the game into the shite it resembles now

Totally agree, you could even substitute "chancers" for defensive gurus

The last post must have been the longest in history - now I have the record😴😴😴😴😴😴.
Happy new year in advance to all.
I used to be indecisive but now I'm not too sure.

joemamas

Quote from: sligoman2 on December 27, 2018, 05:57:55 PM
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Quote from: tippabu on December 22, 2018, 03:19:27 PM
Quote from: Joe Mc Nallys Ballsack on December 22, 2018, 01:33:44 AM
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Quote from: Joe Mc Nallys Ballsack on December 22, 2018, 12:24:41 AM
Quote from: tippabu on December 21, 2018, 11:06:40 AM
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Quote from: tippabu on December 10, 2018, 01:25:28 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on December 10, 2018, 12:22:26 PM

Is it not apparent to everyone that none of these proposals - least of all the handpass restriction - are going to discourage packing defences? Quite the opposite.



It's crazy, I can confirm I'm not from Ulster, a saddist, manager or whoever else is against it apparently. It's funny to see some of these sweeping statements when it's clear no thought to the concequesnces of these. I've put out there multiple times in detail why I think these won't work so won't again. Like you I feel this will only encourage and reward the mass defence mentality and tactic. One of the worst things though, this is being trialed in the league and we've no idea how it will go, league is too important to try these out in.

If these turn out to be a huge success and we get great games I will be the 1st to hold my hands up and say I was wrong

Well at least they are trying . Unfortunately up North they don;t want to try anything that might improve the game as a spectacle.

This conversation is required as the game has become redundant as a spectator sport.

This may not be the answer but at least we are having the debate.

For me a rule should be brought in that you must have 6 players in the opposition half of the field at all times. People say it's not enforceable . It is as the linesmen are perfectly placed to see it and do largely f*** all anyway except run up the line

Bring it at county level first where the manpower is . Club football largely apes the county game anyway

Trying yes but my fear is they only looked at this in a way that is positive and failed to consider the negative impacts and it's the negative impacts I think will make these rules a massive failure.

On keeping 6 in each half of the pitch, it's not enforcement I would be against, it's the stopping of the attacking wingbacks being allowed come forward and stopping of defenders joining the attack. It would I'm sure make for a more open game but I still feel the likes of carlow, fermanagh etc who have had recent success based on a solid defensive structure I would like to see these teams still be able implement these

I've put forward all of my opinions on why I would love to see 13 a side trialled (And not in a competition as important as the league) so I won't go through it all again

I respect your opinion but 13 a side is insane. Anything that reduces the numbers starting  a game will only reduce the participation numbers which is pointless in my opinion .

Carlow played one forward and got lucky in one game. They in my opinion are not something that should be held up as a reason for teams playing 13 behind the ball .

They were muck to watch. It was like watching a herd of cows rolling in  a field somewhere.

The bottom line is they played a Division 4 team in Croke Park using 13 men behind the ball and were beaten comfortably by a team beaten by 20 points in a Leinster Final by Dublin

If that's progress then I'm all for these new rules

It's time for amalgamations at county level and an emphasis on getting people to watch the game again.

did you read my earlier posts on why i believe 13 a side should be trialed? to call 13 a side insane and then say your all for these new rules i think shows theres not much talking with you.  Carlow got promoted, had some great results by their traditional standards, we cannot compare them to dublin or the other top teams. most teams now league is priority and championship is bonus. and as for amalgamations please god no, i would despise supporting a tipp/waterford/kilkenny/wexford south east team.....i want to support tipperary and tipperary alone for better or worse, the same with all the splitting dublin in half, i would hate to see it

You're only interested in your own opinion. The fact that it's a fundamentally flawed opinion is besides the point.

Carlow are not anything to be copied or applauded for in my opinion. They played a rancid style of football and got lucky in one game against a team that kicked a huge amount of wides

Bar one team they beat teams at their own level. Which is why a tiered championship is required. 

Nobody wants to watch this crap - you do realise that don't you? 13 a side is only a cop out to the defensive gurus who rule the game now

I'm only interested in my opinion? Yes I have an opinion and I voice it in as fair a manner as I can and I think most people on here would see me as a fair and balanced contributor. You are new to the board, one of your 1st posts you make a big sweeping statement that anyone who disagrees with these rules are from Ulster, defensive intercounty manager, gpa or sadist. I have said numerous times I will hold my hands up and admit I am wrong and will be happy if the game improves.

On carlow, I agree with you and said it here myself that until kildare they beat no-one of note and kildare was a freak result where they scored from 100% of their attempts. But still them and fermanagh without being disrespectful have had great relative success, both earned promotion and fermanagh a place in the Ulster final, I despise the style of football but I fully respect it and for me the new rules will most likely only encourage and reward this style of play. I will apologise to everyone now for recycling my old posts but I will put them up again on the rules and 13 a side....and yeah these are only my opinions just like how everyone has an opinion here

............

This was posted a couple of hours after the announcement and something's have changed



My view on each one of these is that you have to look at the most negative aspects of each proposal over the positive. Im not saying these will happen but there is the chance and you can be sure given time to see things in action managers will be coming up for specific ways of playing them. These are my thoughts anyway, may have picked up some wrong things, may have contradicted myself in some of what im saying and most importantly i might be wrong in my thoughts. Every situation needs to be fully thought through before making any radical changes


3 handpasses

Will this turn into a game of rugby league where one team gets so far turns, kicks it back and start over again. Remember we are where we are because teams are overly cautious and dont want to concede possession so i dont think because we limit the handpass teams will all of a sudden start a long range expansive kicking style. Also Dublin who are far and away ahead of everyone, it wouldnt be long before they use this in a way to create turnover, when the ball is in the defending teams half stand off for couple of passes then a huge push on the kickpass.

Sidelines must go forward

Is this really a huge problem? nearly all sideline go back to secure possession and start an attack from there. I can just see this being more of an advantage to the team conceding the sideline than the team who has won it. The defending team will carry on as they do nowdays and attempt to cut out any forward ball and can leave anyone behind the sideline free (reason most sidelines do go back is because this is where the free player is). Also if i was a defender id be trilled to knock a ball out for a sideline around the 21 as a way of defense, gives you time to get organised and you know there is a very small area of the pitch which can be used or youd have a player attempting shots from sidelines which youd take all day long.

Mark inside the 20

Good in theory but will it just lead to inside forwards being double marked and opposition players coming up with a way to combat the threat? This one could work but its one I would like to see in action and see if it is positive or not

Sin Bin

Personal opinion on this, do we really need black cards, sin bins etc? For me leave it at yellow and red cards. A yellow card would suffice for many of the black cards dished out these days, the likes of the infamous sean cavanagh against monaghan rugby tackle, allow a ref to deem that a red card and not be tied down to having to give a yellow due to the rules. If something is gamechanging cynicism then allow a red for it, the likes of checking a run should be a yellow for me.

2 players each only between the 45s for kickouts

Does there need to be two players designated? At what phase of the kickout do these players need to be identified? If you manage to isolate someone who is really quick on your own kickout with a big slower midfielder with all that space it would be as effective as a short kickout, pull your two players to one sideline middle of the field will have to be open, keeper kicks it there and youd back your players to get there 9 times out of 10. Gone would be the days of quick kickouts and the game would be alot more broken up, take fermangh for example, play a very defensive way, each kickout youd have to wait for everyone who was back sweeping to throd up the pitch and back into the opposition half before the ball is kicked, I can see the merit in this because at each restart you are facing into 6 defenders and not a mass defense but dublin against carlow, carlow would get annihilated with how athletic and physical they are, carlow kick out the ball, dublin win it and its 1 v 1 all in the carlow half, most teams would get eaten alive

....................

And my post on 13 a side

I've said it before and I stress I'm not saying I am right but 13 a side. Trialled at sigerson, preseason before thinking about bringing it into league and championship. Positives I think there are are

1. Less players means more space, I fully believe there should be allowance for a defensive set up, carlow and fermanagh for instance I don't think would have had the success of last year without it and with 13 a side you could still implement this but there should be more room to operate and space to find for attacking players.

2. Players are fitter than they have ever been, should be no issue in this regards with less players.

3. It should help counties with a smaller/less talented pick than the bigger counties....I know in tipp and is imagine your own roscommons starting teams would be stronger starting 13 and much better quality of player to be able call off the bench.

4. It would make a huge difference to rural clubs who struggle for numbers.

Honestly I can't think of many negatives but like I said it would need to be trialled and see how games do play out and if anything springs up then.

You're entitled to your view but 13 a side is a cop out to defensive gurus

There is no need to reduce the numbers whatsoever with a proper rules structure that rewards teams that want to go forward with the ball as oppose to backwards.

There is no game more resistant to rule changes then Gaelic Football.

As it's permeated by defensive gurus who have made careers in turning the game into the shite it resembles now

Totally agree, you could even substitute "chancers" for defensive gurus

The last post must have been the longest in history - now I have the record😴😴😴😴😴😴.
Happy new year in advance to all.

No you don't 😁