Money, Dublin and the GAA

Started by IolarCoisCuain, October 04, 2016, 07:27:37 PM

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Hound

Quote from: mayoman dan on June 19, 2018, 11:29:10 PM
Counties love playing in Croke Park? Has any complained yet?

its not up to the counties to complain.A level playing field should be a given with a national competition.So il ask for a third time is it fair that Dublin get 2 home games in what is essentially a league format for the super 8s while other counties only get 1??? Its like Man utd playing every game at old trafford
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A more apt comparison would be Spurs playing the FA Cup semi final this season in Wembley, which was their home venue, when it was supposed to be neutral. Likewise they would have played the FA Cup final at their home venue had they got there.

Dublin play their home games in the national stadium. This happens in a number of countries in the soccer world. In NFL there's always a chance a team could have home advantage in the SuperBowl, although I don't think it's ever happened. It certainly has happened that a team has had home advantage in the soccer and rugby European Cup finals.

Do you think the All Ireland final should be moved out of Croke Park?
Do you think the All Ireland semi finals should be moved out of Croke Park?
I believe that there's never been an All Ireland quarter-final played by a Leinster champion that was not played in Croke Park.

The situation was Dublin played 3/3 in Croker from QF to Final. Now it would be 4/5. Not sure how anyone can argue that gives Dublin more of a home advantage than previously?

Dinny Breen

If Dublin had to play Kerry in Thurles and Mayo in Castlebar would the odds be greater, less or the same than if they got play both in Croke Park?
#newbridgeornowhere

From the Bunker

Quote from: Hound on June 20, 2018, 11:54:42 AM


A more apt comparison would be Spurs playing the FA Cup semi final this season in Wembley, which was their home venue, when it was supposed to be neutral. Likewise they would have played the FA Cup final at their home venue had they got there.

Dublin play their home games in the national stadium. This happens in a number of countries in the soccer world. In NFL there's always a chance a team could have home advantage in the SuperBowl, although I don't think it's ever happened. It certainly has happened that a team has had home advantage in the soccer and rugby European Cup finals.

Do you think the All Ireland final should be moved out of Croke Park?
Do you think the All Ireland semi finals should be moved out of Croke Park?
I believe that there's never been an All Ireland quarter-final played by a Leinster champion that was not played in Croke Park.

The situation was Dublin played 3/3 in Croker from QF to Final. Now it would be 4/5. Not sure how anyone can argue that gives Dublin more of a home advantage than previously?

Ok, where to start. Spurs played an open draw as to venues until the semi finals of the FAcup. Spurs are temporary residents of Wembley, they will be just getting used to playing there when they will be moving out.  The 3/3 and 4/5 example is wishey washey. you still get 3 more games at home out of the last 5 games than any other competing county. The two important knock out game are at home and Dubllin are the only county to play against the Provincial winner at home.

Do I think the semi-finals should be moved out of Croke Park? Well yes! If you are going to ask a stupid question.

The Superbowls and European Cup examples are flukes when a team end up with home advantage and are one off's!

Are you saying the present system is fair?

Are you saying home advantage holds no weight in deciding a fixture?


Maroon Manc

Whats the latest with the land Dublin County Board were looking to buy? From memory they were outbid buy a developer who couldn't get planning but then were reported to be back in talks but not heard anything about it recently.


Orchard park

Longballin is a Tyrone man and I am s rossie vexiled  in Limerick yet we can  see Dublins championship success is down to panel quality not location of games....

And I believe if Dublin had to play Mayo in Castlebar  the result would be the same every time.....

Dinny Breen

Quote from: Orchard park on June 20, 2018, 12:42:28 PM
Longballin is a Tyrone man and I am s rossie vexiled  in Limerick yet we can  see Dublins championship success is down to panel quality not location of games....

And I believe if Dublin had to play Mayo in Castlebar  the result would be the same every time.....

We'll never know because it's not a fair competition!!!! Are you that sucked in by the "if you are good enough" cliched nonsense...all statistical analysis across all sports points to home advantage in tight games especially evenly match teams.

#newbridgeornowhere

Hound

Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 20, 2018, 12:08:32 PM
If Dublin had to play Kerry in Thurles and Mayo in Castlebar would the odds be greater, less or the same than if they got play both in Croke Park?
Taking Mayo first, when we play in AI semi or final in Croker with a 50/50 split of tickets, then I honestly believe home advantage doesn't count on the scoreboard as the Mayo lads are well used to the surroundings and the support of both teams in the ground is equally voiceferous. Our "home advantage" is much more pronounced in terms of preparation and training, rather than match itself when playing Mayo.

So playing Mayo in Castlebar, with a 50/50 ticket allocation would not give Mayo an added advantage. If it was a home game like in the premier league, with 80/20 split in tickets in favour, then for sure Mayo's chances of winning would increase.

Croke Park can certainly be intimidating to some teams, and that could definitely be an advantage Dublin has as being so used to the surroundings, but Mayo are one team that wouldnt be in any way fazed by that.  Kerry shouldn't be either given their young lads have all won All Irelands at underage recently, although time may tell.

You will remember that Dublin played Kerry in Thurles in an AI QF some years back. That was at a time when Dublin were intimidated playing in Croker and weren't as good a team as Kerry, so were big enough underdogs. We put in a super performance in Thurles, well outplayed Kerry, but didn't get over the line (bizarrely Dessie and Collie both missed literal open goals). In the replay both teams played more to their previous form lines and Kerry won handy enough. If the games had been played in Croker, I honestly believe Kerry would have come out on top, maybe more comfortably.

At the moment there's probably a 50% chance our away game will be in Cork. That will certainly give them an increased chance given they wouldn't have played a huge amount of games in Croker in the last 2 or 3 years and importantly they'll have a lot more support in Pairc Ui Chaoimh than they would in Croke Park.

From the Bunker

Quote from: Orchard park on June 20, 2018, 12:42:28 PM
Longballin is a Tyrone man and I am s rossie vexiled  in Limerick yet we can  see Dublins championship success is down to panel quality not location of games....

And I believe if Dublin had to play Mayo in Castlebar  the result would be the same every time.....

Nobody doubts the result, but it is made more secure with home advantage!

Also it's not fair on travelling fans! Dubs have no expenses here?

It's not fair on rural businesses. Last years Quarter final replay should have been in Roscommon!

Dinny Breen

Quote from: Hound on June 20, 2018, 12:59:22 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 20, 2018, 12:08:32 PM
If Dublin had to play Kerry in Thurles and Mayo in Castlebar would the odds be greater, less or the same than if they got play both in Croke Park?
Taking Mayo first, when we play in AI semi or final in Croker with a 50/50 split of tickets, then I honestly believe home advantage doesn't count on the scoreboard as the Mayo lads are well used to the surroundings and the support of both teams in the ground is equally voiceferous. Our "home advantage" is much more pronounced in terms of preparation and training, rather than match itself when playing Mayo.

So playing Mayo in Castlebar, with a 50/50 ticket allocation would not give Mayo an added advantage. If it was a home game like in the premier league, with 80/20 split in tickets in favour, then for sure Mayo's chances of winning would increase.

Croke Park can certainly be intimidating to some teams, and that could definitely be an advantage Dublin has as being so used to the surroundings, but Mayo are one team that wouldnt be in any way fazed by that.  Kerry shouldn't be either given their young lads have all won All Irelands at underage recently, although time may tell.

You will remember that Dublin played Kerry in Thurles in an AI QF some years back. That was at a time when Dublin were intimidated playing in Croker and weren't as good a team as Kerry, so were big enough underdogs. We put in a super performance in Thurles, well outplayed Kerry, but didn't get over the line (bizarrely Dessie and Collie both missed literal open goals). In the replay both teams played more to their previous form lines and Kerry won handy enough. If the games had been played in Croker, I honestly believe Kerry would have come out on top, maybe more comfortably.

At the moment there's probably a 50% chance our away game will be in Cork. That will certainly give them an increased chance given they wouldn't have played a huge amount of games in Croker in the last 2 or 3 years and importantly they'll have a lot more support in Pairc Ui Chaoimh than they would in Croke Park.

So after all the fudging, Theresa May would be proud, and a reference to 2001 when Croke was not Dublin's home ground therefore completely irrelevant, you concede that it would harder for Dublin to have to play Castlebar and Thurles. See it's not that hard to admit Croke is an advantage. 
#newbridgeornowhere

johnnycool

If home advantage doesn't matter then why are the Dubs not being magnanimous and and offering to go sightseeing around the country come championship time and super 8's especially.


FWIW, in the Munster round robin Clare are the only team to record an away victory in 10 games. Waterford had no home games and two at neutral venues and only managed to record one draw. Cork in theory won away to Waterford but the game was in Thurles.

In Leinster between the three main contenders only Galway won away in Wexford, every other result between them, Wexford and Kilkenny went to the home team.



mayoman dan

Quote from: The Hill is Blue on June 20, 2018, 08:50:31 AM
Quote from: mayoman dan on June 19, 2018, 11:19:13 PM

Absolutly! Go in and beat them as teams did for years till this great team came along. Excuses excuses...

So its fair that dublin get 2 home games and everyone else gets 1?????

Playing Dublin in Castlebar hasn't done much good for Mayo in recent years. If you're not good enough you're not good enough.
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Typical deflection.Keep your head buried in the sand

longballin

A pity GAA wouldn't take Dublin out of Croke Park more so supporters wouldn't have to travel so far to see their county get beat by this great team.. though the begrudgers would move to another excuse.

mayoman dan

Quote from: longballin on June 20, 2018, 02:07:40 PM
A pity GAA wouldn't take Dublin out of Croke Park more so supporters wouldn't have to travel so far to see their county get beat by this great team.. though the begrudgers would move to another excuse.

There wouldnt be any excuse if the flagship competition was played fairly with the same rules applying for everyone.If Dublin were playing kerry in their 3rd game with winner take all do you think kerry have a better chance in thurles or croker???

JoG2

Quote from: longballin on June 20, 2018, 02:07:40 PM
A pity GAA wouldn't take Dublin out of Croke Park more so supporters wouldn't have to travel so far to see their county get beat by this great team.. though the begrudgers would move to another excuse.

Ahh, enter 'the bigger man'........What do you think the vast majority of of non-Dubs are begrudging exactly? Or is it a case of posters pointing out how unfair the current system is, yet Dubs will do cope carlies on the keyboard rather than admit that the championship is unfair, both to the competing teams and travelling supporters. And this is more than a great Dublin 'team'...check out the differences in starting linesup from 2011 and the current lineup...what we're dealing with here is much more than a 'great team'.

longballin

Quote from: mayoman dan on June 20, 2018, 02:21:09 PM
Quote from: longballin on June 20, 2018, 02:07:40 PM
A pity GAA wouldn't take Dublin out of Croke Park more so supporters wouldn't have to travel so far to see their county get beat by this great team.. though the begrudgers would move to another excuse.

There wouldnt be any excuse if the flagship competition was played fairly with the same rules applying for everyone.If Dublin were playing kerry in their 3rd game with winner take all do you think kerry have a better chance in thurles or croker???

Dubs would beat them anywhere.