Maddie McCann

[ONeill]

Where did I say this was reported? This is a possibility, nothing more, nothing less

It's when people start to say 'this happened' or was 'reported' that things become annoying and childish.

So am i to take it from all this that anything that is reported in the press is an impossibility in your opinion whereas your stated opinions are possibilities ?
I think we are all aware there is very little hard evidence in this case and that 99% of the stuff that is reported in the press regarding this case is a possibility based on the opinion of the reporter (regardless of whether there is an unofficial source or not) and that a lot of it is untrue. This is the same as you presenting your opinions. They are as you say, possibilities.
So how you can take some high moral ground here and rubbish anyone who repeats the possibilities as presented by reporters and then come out with your own 'possibilities' in almost the same breath ?!!

Simple really. Some are taking what a reporter writes as 'fact'.

Here are some of POG's facts -

The were inaccuracies and inconsistencies in the parent's stories;
They also lied about the amount of drink they had;
realising Maddie had gone returned to the restaurant LEAVING THE TWINS ALONE AGAIN! Saying "they've taken her they've taken her";
The twin boys slept through everything, their mothers reaction and the 20 or so people the mccanns took back to the apartment – they were carried out, asleep, by police when they arrived;

Where's the evidence for this? These are not opinions...these have been used on this board as fact. That's the difference. Understand now?

[blast05]

Fair enough, although i as per many other i am sure, didn't interpret POG's comments as facts, mere very strong possibilities ..... and the reason i would consider them as such is that presuming they were lies, then the McCann media machine would have denied them all a long time ago.
BTW, i trust you were not trying to be condescending with your comment "Understand now?"   

[Pietas]

Fair enough, although i as per many other i am sure, didn't interpret POG's comments as facts, mere very strong possibilities ..... and the reason i would consider them as such is that presuming they were lies, then the McCann media machine would have denied them all a long time ago.
BTW, i trust you were not trying to be condescending with your comment "Understand now?"   

As selfish as it sounds, i'm pig sick of this case being used by the media to fill column inches and air time during the silly season.

To my eyes, the McCann's campaign to find their daughter has the fingerprints of a slick pr company all over it, with sporadic attacks on the Portugese police for good measure.  Is it any wonder, therefore, that they are now 'suspects' in the investigation?

For what it's worth, I don't think they did it, but they have been guilty of extreme niavety in thinking that their own obviously tardy behaviour in minding their kids (sedatives?) could be glossed over by a campaign aimed perhaps more at generating sympathy than getting to the bottom of what happend to the kid.

The 'Find Madeleine' campaign was based on a presumption she was there to be found.  The history of such cases unfortunately leads us to believe that such abductees are dead within a very short space of time.  Resources have been expended on a wild goose chase, while the person(s) responsible are still at large.

Had Madeleine McCann been from a run down council estate, and her parents in the pub next door, the tabloids would have dubbed the 'Britiain's most evil parents' or somesuch and they would be in hiding now. guilty or innocent.

Making monkeys out of the Portugese police was a very bad idea and was always going to lead to trouble.  Sky and other news organisations claiming that Portugal was rife with paedophiles when Mediterraneans refer to it as 'The English Disease' was ignorant in the extreme.

[Square Ball]

the latest from thr BBC, this will answer a few of the questions raised

Prosecutor reviews Madeleine case 

The family arrived at their home together on Sunday
Police papers detailing the inquiry into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann are expected to be passed to the public prosecutor in Portugal later.
All the police's information will be reviewed, three days after her parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, of Rothley, Leics, were named as formal suspects.

A review is standard practice in Portugal when there has been such a development, BBC correspondents say.

Madeleine, four, was last seen in the McCanns' Algarve apartment on 3 May.

Mr and Mrs McCann, both 39, returned to the UK on Sunday, but can be recalled to Portugal with five days' notice.

Further results

They are being advised by London-based lawyers Michael Caplan QC and Angus McBride.

Mr Caplan acted for former Chilean dictator General Augusto Pinochet when Spain attempted to extradite him from the UK in 1999.

  [Kate and Gerry] had a decent night's sleep and the twins slept soundly. They're holding up extremely well

Brian Kennedy

Mrs McCann's uncle, Brian Kennedy, gave a statement on Monday in which he said the couple had received many messages of support.

"They're fine. They had a decent night's sleep and the twins slept soundly. They're holding up extremely well."

He added that the couple would not be going back to work immediately - both are doctors - but would try to lead "as normal an existence as possible".

BBC correspondent Alison Roberts said the passing over of the police papers to the public prosecutor is a normal practice, in which the prosecutor will undertake a review of the investigation so far, including the statements given by the McCanns last week.

 


Statement in full
Emotional homecoming
In Pictures: McCanns return 

"It seems unlikely, given this development, that the investigation will go beyond the normal eight months for a Portuguese inquiry," she said.

Under the Portuguese legal system, police have eight months to investigate a case before requiring permission to continue their inquiries.

Media reports, unconfirmed by police, have said that Portuguese officers have been preparing to make searches.

They are still awaiting further results from forensic tests carried out in the UK on samples taken from the McCanns' apartment in Praia da Luz and at least one vehicle used by the family and their friends.

Partial results from these tests triggered a series of events which led to the McCanns being declared formal suspects, or "arguidos".

No bail conditions, travel restrictions or charges have been imposed on the couple, who were questioned separately for more than 24 hours last week.

ARGUIDO/ARGUIDA STATUS
Officially a suspect
Bestowed by police or requested by individual
Right to remain silent
Right to a lawyer

After the family arrived at East Midlands Airport on Sunday, an emotional Mr McCann said they had returned for the sake of their two-year-old twins, Amelie and Sean, and he appealed for their privacy to be respected.

He said neither he nor his wife had played any part in the disappearance of their "lovely daughter".

Journalists from across the world have been camped out in their village since their return.

The couple told Sunday newspapers that they believed Portuguese police were trying to frame them and had put Mrs McCann under pressure to confess that she killed her daughter by accident.

'Cross-contamination'

During an 11-hour interview, detectives suggested to Mrs McCann that traces of Madeleine's blood had been found in the family's hire car, she said.

The family say this is impossible as they did not rent the vehicle until 25 days after Madeleine disappeared.

Allan Scott, a lecturer at the University of Central Lancashire's School of Forensic and Investigative Sciences, said cross-contamination needed to be considered.

He said "secondary transfer" of Madeleine's DNA may have occurred and that DNA is "so sensitive" that if two people met in the street and shook hands and then one committed a crime, they could possibly leave the other person's DNA at the scene.

[Balboa]

Can we expect a flat out media campaign now that they are back in the UK? & has Max Clifford got the call yet?

[Mentalman]

My point exactly Tractortom. People watch CSI Miami and they think that DNA is the real deal but it is not. The Birmingham Six were convicted because DNA samples "proved" that they had handled explosives. It was proved later that they may have handles explosive.....or playing cards and many other things that have a similar makeup.

Everyone has there thought but i think that someone close to the McCann's will eventually be caught.

Sorry Wee Roddy going to have pull you there, the Birmingham six case involved no DNA, to be fair it wasn't in use at the time, I'm not even sure the technology had advanced as far as practical applications. The B6 case involved the Griess test, which detects the presence of nitrite, commonly used in explosives, but also many other common things. In the B6 case, the strength of the readings reported by Skuse were recorded "in error", meaning the source of nitrate could have been of a far lesser grade, found in completely innocent objects like playing cards. If you're saying that the Geiss test was thought in it's day to be the equivalent of modern DNA testing then I get your train of thought, but DNA evidence is far far stronger to be fair. As for the larger point, DNA evidence can be transferred fairly easily, but the source of the DNA (blood/siliva/skin cells) is important, however there must have been a quaintity high enough to measure weeks after the event? In any event DNA of it's slef shouldn't be the single basis for a case, the same as purely circumstantioal evidence should never be. But if the two start coming together, things look a bit more suspicious.

[pintsofguinness]

wee roddy

Supersub, where is it fact that Maddies blood was found in the car? Anyone who understands DNA knows that this is not infact true. The DNA could equally have come from the hair of one of the twins.

No wee roddy, DNA is unique (like a fingerprint), Maddie's DNA could only come from her.

[Sandy Hill]

From today's "Timesonline"

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2422967.ece?token=null&offset=0

[pintsofguinness]

Mrs McCann is reported to have explained that in her work as locum GP she came into contact with six corpses in the weeks leading up to Algarve holiday.

This seems a high number for a locum GP working just a couple of days a week but would be easy to check against surgery records.

That's ridiculous. 
I thought I read that for the dogs to pick up on a scent the corpse would need to be there for over a hour and half. 
There is no way a GP would be with a corpse for that length of time.  A GPs only role with a dead person is to declare death has taken place. 6 does seem an awful high number but surely she would know not to lie about that.

The points raised in that article have been raised a lot by The Times, I've made some of the same points in my earlier post.   

[Square Ball]

are people convinced that maddie is dead, or are they hoping that she has been abducted and is still alive somewhere, or is it a heart ruling the head scenario?

[The Real Laoislad]

are people convinced that maddie is dead, or are they hoping that she has been abducted and is still alive somewhere, or is it a heart ruling the head scenario?

Of course everyone is hoping she is found alive,I doubt anyone wants to say I told you so if she is found dead or if the parents are found to have done any wrong doing.

[ExiledGael]

I actually can't believe the amount of people now coming out with 'ah I told you so/knew from the start the parents were guilty in all this', with some sort of pride that they were right!!

[Balboa]

I havent read every post but this is the latest on Sky News.



More from Sky News on Channel 501
'Police Match Madeleine DNA To Hire Car'
Updated: 20:26, Monday September 10, 2007

Portuguese police say they have found firm DNA evidence that the body of Madeleine McCann was in the boot of the family's hire car five weeks after she went missing, sources have told Sky News.

Kate McCann leaves PortimaoSky crime correspondent Martin Brunt, speaking from Portimao, said police were "adamant" they had found the most "damning" evidence yet implicating either one or both of the McCanns in their daughter's death.

The evidence came in blood samples returned from the Forensic Science Service in Birmingham.

"Police say it is the most damning evidence that has been returned by the tests," Brunt said.

"It shows, as far as they are concerned, the presence of Madeleine's body in the car five weeks after she disappeared."

He continued: "The evidence suggests very strongly that it was not that her DNA had been transferred from clothing or from a cuddly toy.

"The allegation is that the DNA shows a full match of 99%. According to police, it shows the presence of Madeleine's body in the boot of the family's hire car five weeks after she disappeared."


A policeman delivers flowers to the McCannsHe said the sample of blood sent to the Forensic Science Service in Birmingham carried three matches of Madeleine's DNA.

Two were partial matches that came from the car and the windowsill of the family's holiday apartment.

The third was the full match from the boot of the car.

Meanwhile, papers outlining any evidence against Gerry and Kate McCann will be passed to the Public Prosecutor in Portugal, probably on Tuesday.

With the couple back in their home in Rothley, Leicestershire, the prosecutor will consider whether to lay any charges.

He will be considering the circumstances surrounding Madeleine's disappearance on May 3, Portuguese police spokesman Olegario Sousa added.

Brunt said the prosecutor had a number of options and may call for more evidence or advise on the investigation.


McCanns deny harming their childFamily spokesman Brian Kennedy, who is Madeleine's great uncle, said of the family: "They are holding up extremely well."

The Portimao-based prosecutor, Jose Cunha de Magalhaes e Meneses, will look at the DNA evidence as well as the statements given by the McCanns to see if there is a case against the couple.

Chief Inspector Sousa said Portuguese police decided to pass the file on to the prosecutor despite not having all the results from forensic tests being carried out in Birmingham.

The samples were taken from the McCanns' holiday apartment and hire car.

The McCanns have been told they could be called back to Portugal "at any time".

Under Portuguese law the couple could keep their arguido - suspect - status for up to eight months, although the prosecutor could decide to extend that to a year.

Portuguese detectives appear to be working on the theory that Mrs McCann killed her daughter by accident and covered up the death by claiming she was abducted.

According to reports in Portugal, police are to make new searches as part of the investigation.

[Aristotle Flynn]

University of Central Lancashire - that well known internationally respected school of learning. 

[pintsofguinness]

I actually can't believe the amount of people now coming out with 'ah I told you so/knew from the start the parents were guilty in all this', with some sort of pride that they were right!!

From day one the people who have criticised and suspected the parents have been accused of everything including hoping the child turned up dead.  Your allegation, although nothing new, is sick too.

Portuguese police say they have found firm DNA evidence that the body of Madeleine McCann was in the boot of the family's hire car five weeks after she went missing, sources have told Sky News.

Kate McCann leaves PortimaoSky crime correspondent Martin Brunt, speaking from Portimao, said police were "adamant" they had found the most "damning" evidence yet implicating either one or both of the McCanns in their daughter's death.

The evidence came in blood samples returned from the Forensic Science Service in Birmingham.

"Police say it is the most damning evidence that has been returned by the tests," Brunt said.

"It shows, as far as they are concerned, the presence of Madeleine's body in the car five weeks after she disappeared."

He continued: "The evidence suggests very strongly that it was not that her DNA had been transferred from clothing or from a cuddly toy.

"The allegation is that the DNA shows a full match of 99%. According to police, it shows the presence of Madeleine's body in the boot of the family's hire car five weeks after she disappeared."

Quite shocking.