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Non GAA Discussion => General discussion => Topic started by: ExiledGael on May 14, 2007, 08:12:54 PM

Title: Maddie McCann
Post by: ExiledGael on May 14, 2007, 08:12:54 PM
This must be the worst thing ever to happen to any parent, regardless of whether they were negligent.
Apparently Portuguese Police have just sealed off a villa nearby, the first time this has happened in the case.
It's not looking good, God help her family
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ziggysego on May 14, 2007, 08:17:16 PM
f**k. Well I always feared it would come to a terrible end.

However, and forgive me, in the long run it would be better to know...
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on May 14, 2007, 08:19:36 PM
Terrible story but I'm having a real hard time feeling sorry for her parents!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ziggysego on May 14, 2007, 08:20:39 PM
Forgive me, again.

What is the story with her parents? I've heard a lot of people say that, but I never heard why.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ExiledGael on May 14, 2007, 08:23:02 PM
They were having a meal in another part of the holday village, around 50 metres from the room, where they left their children.
They were going up to check at 15 minute intervals apparently, and found the window broken in and their little girl gone.
Maybe they were being a little careless, but that's the last thing in the world you'd expect.
You'd need to have a heart of stone not to feel for them, it must make it even worse
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on May 14, 2007, 08:31:17 PM
They were in a bar drinking and eating while they left their children, a 3 year old and 1 year old twins? in the room and checked on them hourly. How stupid can you be! Someone breaking in and taking one of the children might be the last thing you'd expect but you wouldn't be surprised for children to wake up sick, scared, dreaming or whatever and where are their parents? In a bar drinking!  ffs

I've no sympathy for them but my heart goes out for the wee girl.   

Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Syd on May 14, 2007, 09:06:45 PM
This may not be a popular sentiment but i think if the parents were working class they would have been hauled across the coals by the media. I also cannot get over the media covergae of this, no one is doubting that it is a serious event but usually something like this is top news for a day or two then it fades away, but this has been the top story for almost 2 weeks.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Stalin on May 14, 2007, 10:25:33 PM
Police have acted on the suspicions of a Mirror reporter and ahve took some English bloke in for questioning. His mother owns the place being searched atm.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: dublinfella on May 14, 2007, 10:35:10 PM
This may not be a popular sentiment but i think if the parents were working class they would have been hauled across the coals by the media. I also cannot get over the media covergae of this, no one is doubting that it is a serious event but usually something like this is top news for a day or two then it fades away, but this has been the top story for almost 2 weeks.

Agreed. Just because they are doctors they seem to have been let off somewhat by the (very disturbing) media. Imagine this was a chav family.

This is why you hire babysitters when you go out to dinner.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Orior on May 14, 2007, 10:51:53 PM
My cousin was bridesmaid at the parents wedding.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: cicfada on May 14, 2007, 11:15:16 PM
I do feel  sorry for the parents. They were going back every half hour to check on them!!How could they have anticipated someone stealing their child for Christ's sake!It's easy for people to criticise them  but unless you're a parent yourself then you can't really comment on it as you know little of the stresses that parents go through when raising kids!!It's impossible to be 100% on guard over your children all the time!How long were the parents in the bar for??HOw many drinks did they have??How far away was the apartment??I have heard so many versions of answers for these questions, that's it's hard to start blaming the parents!!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on May 14, 2007, 11:31:10 PM
I do feel  sorry for the parents. They were going back every half hour to check on them!!How could they have anticipated someone stealing their child for Christ's sake!It's easy for people to criticise them  but unless you're a parent yourself then you can't really comment on it as you know little of the stresses that parents go through when raising kids!!It's impossible to be 100% on guard over your children all the time!How long were the parents in the bar for??HOw many drinks did they have??How far away was the apartment??I have heard so many versions of answers for these questions, that's it's hard to start blaming the parents!!

100% correct.

Sydney

Quote
I also cannot get over the media covergae of this, no one is doubting that it is a serious event but usually something like this is top news for a day or two then it fades away, but this has been the top story for almost 2 weeks.

Whilst I agree, I have no problem with that, as I feel that the greatest hope of finding the wee girl depends on keeping the issue in the public eye.

That said, I saw interviews with a couple of Portugese (sp) families who lost kids in similar circumstances, and whilst they had sympathy for the plight of the McCanns, they gave off big time that there was never a response from the police, or the media, to compare with what has happened here.



Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on May 14, 2007, 11:47:04 PM
cic
Quote
I do feel  sorry for the parents. They were going back every half hour to check on them!!How could they have anticipated someone stealing their child for Christ's sake!It's easy for people to criticise them  but unless you're a parent yourself then you can't really comment on it as you know little of the stresses that parents go through when raising kids!!It's impossible to be 100% on guard over your children all the time!How long were the parents in the bar for??HOw many drinks did they have??How far away was the apartment??I have heard so many versions of answers for these questions, that's it's hard to start blaming the parents!!

What has the stresses a parent goes through got to do with anything? It's a stressful job so it's acceptable for them to have a couple of hours off while the children look after themselves? No one is expecting a 100% guard, it wasn't as if they took their eye off them for 2 minutes. 
They left 3 babies alone in a room while they popped out to a restaurant and felt that checking on them every hour was sufficent!
No one is saying that they should have anticipated someone stealing their child but they would never anticipate a child being sick, unable to sleep, even needing a toilet?? and where are they?? 200 yards away in a restaurant??  You don't need to be a parent to know they were grossly negligent.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Fionntamhnach on May 15, 2007, 12:36:37 AM
The media coverage of this case is that of the white blonde woman syndrome. There was a great clip on Family Guy one time of the media rushing to the scene where a young girl had been lost. When they found out the girl's surname which meant that she was Hispanic, they left just as quickly.

You would have to have a heart of stone to not hope that the little girl doesn't turn up safe and well, but this story is blown out of all proportion by the UK media, whom as rightly pointed out above aren't daring questioning the parents responsibilities because of their social class. And the reason for that is because most of the journalists in the press belong to that same class of society and therefore don't want themselves to be tarnished by "chavvy" behaviour. Also there hundreds if not thousands of little children taken away lost or kidnapped every day across the world and what they end up getting involved in doesn't bear thinking about. Oh, and there were dozens of people killed in an explosion today in Iraq, but that doesn't matter in the eyes of the media in Ireland and Britain, except for maybe 5-10 seconds.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: J70 on May 15, 2007, 02:23:07 AM
God help those people. If they don't get that child back safely, they will never have a minute's peace for the rest of their lives. How could you live with yourself? And I don't even want to imagine what a little three-year old girl experienced in whatever the situation turns out to be. Pints is correct - there are some things you do not take chances with, no matter how small you think the risk is. However, while I would hope I've never remotely approached or will approach their apparent levels of negligence, I've got away with certain dumb things in my life, and incredibly stupid and reckless as these people were, I can't help but feel sorry for what they're going to have to go through if this doesn't turn out well.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: hardstation on May 15, 2007, 03:24:48 AM
I have been wondering why no one has posted anything about this until today.
Quote
This may not be a popular sentiment but i think if the parents were working class they would have been hauled across the coals by the media.
Absolutley correct. I've been thinking this all week and it sickens me. Although you would never expect it to happen, it was very irresponsible and to think that Maddie was the oldest of the 3 children left on their own is outrageous. When they return home, what will happen? Will social services take the other children into care? They certainly should. There is no excuse for what these parents did. I do symphasise with them but they are not fit to look after children if they think it is ok to leave a 3 year old and two 1 year old children alone. I hope for the best but sadly I believe that she is no longer with us (I hope I'm wrong). I just think that it has been too long without a sign.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: stephenite on May 15, 2007, 05:04:37 AM
I have been wondering why no one has posted anything about this until today.

Yeah thought that myself, thought the same about the recent Miss D case and posted a topic to very few replies, some topics maybe a bit too much for people to discuss maybe, or maybe because I post in the middle of the night for most people, it gets missed by some.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: sureyouwill on May 15, 2007, 08:03:29 AM
I do feel  sorry for the parents. They were going back every half hour to check on them!!How could they have anticipated someone stealing their child for Christ's sake!It's easy for people to criticise them  but unless you're a parent yourself then you can't really comment on it as you know little of the stresses that parents go through when raising kids!!It's impossible to be 100% on guard over your children all the time!How long were the parents in the bar for??HOw many drinks did they have??How far away was the apartment??I have heard so many versions of answers for these questions, that's it's hard to start blaming the parents!!

That is without doubt the most ludicrous statement ever posted on this board.  To walk away from three children so young to go out for a meal and a few drinks is totally reprehensible.  f**k me if they wanted a few drinks after getting the kids to bed, could they have not of cracked opened a bottle of wine downstairs as the kids slept.  I honestly hope the little girl is found but hope is obviously fading fast, I do however have little sympathy for parents who could tuck in 2 one year olds and a 3 year old and then just piss off out of the house, irrespctive if they are checking half hourly or hourly, also what did this checking involve - open the front door and listen to see if anyone was crying or going to each child to ensure they were ok, totally agree with Pints - gross negligence sums it up.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: realredhandfan on May 15, 2007, 08:59:04 AM
I think we are very opinionated here, your criticisms of gross negligence and calls for social security to take the rest of the kids from them, are at odds rightly or wrongly with the very real awful punishment the parents are going through at the moment.  whatever they did they did, and they were undoubtedly wrong to leave the kids.  What a price to pay? This evil kiddnap was not of their doing, it was not inevitable but probably an opportunistic kidnap of another innocent by predators who just watch and wait and strike.  Evil needs no understanding from the rest of us.       
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: sureyouwill on May 15, 2007, 09:12:40 AM
I think we are very opinionated here, your criticisms of gross negligence and calls for social security to take the rest of the kids from them, are at odds rightly or wrongly with the very real awful punishment the parents are going through at the moment.  whatever they did they did, and they were undoubtedly wrong to leave the kids.  What a price to pay? This evil kiddnap was not of their doing, it was not inevitable but probably an opportunistic kidnap of another innocent by predators who just watch and wait and strike.  Evil needs no understanding from the rest of us.       

This is totally true, but the opportunity for something to happen to such very young children, in which the parents were powerless to intervene, was created by their very inappropriate actions. 
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: guy crouchback on May 15, 2007, 09:13:51 AM
There was a very interesting interview on morning Ireland this Morning. They had on a British cop who was ex-head of the flying Squad from Scotland Yard. He was of the opinion that the police in Portugal have from day one been convinced that the child was taken by a local and is still being kept local.
  He reckons all this talk of international peadoohile rings is just a smoke screen
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on May 15, 2007, 09:32:06 AM
Just going to comment on the kidnapping and leave the rest to when, pleases god, the child is found safe and well.

There are some sick b**tards in this world who no matter what we do as parents will take any opportunity to ply their sick trade, I can only hope that Maddie herself is safe and well, i shudder to think what she could be going through.

this could be anything from a pedophile to someone who has lost a child themselves and is trying to replace her, I pray for her safe return
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Ryano on May 15, 2007, 09:50:11 AM
Christ, how some of you can be so heartless or cruel is beyond me. Yes the parents were stupid for going for a meal in 50 yards away from their sleeping kids. But how the hell you are unable to feel sympathy for them is just mind boggling. Its their own fault so they deserve it? Thats a load of self righteous bollox.

Do you not think they realise their error? That they are not absolutely torn apart with guilt and remorse? That their two remaining children will never and i mean never leave their sight again? God forbid that the little girl turns up hurt or worse, how is it going to affect them and the two remaining kids as a family? Their lives are changed for ever no matter what way this turns out. Life will never be the same again. Those two parents are condemned to a life of worry and fretting about their kids. Think about it. Every time the kids leave the house for the next 20 odd years, everytime they are 5 minutes late, everytime they go out to play, they go to a friends house, everytime they go to the shop on the corner, everytime they go to school those parents are going to be worrying about where they are, who they are with, what they are doing, are they safe until they are home again. They and their kids deserve all that do they?

It makes me sick how those of you who are so perfect and dwell up there on the moral high ground can come onto a forum with your moral indignation and pontificate and wallow in their unimaginable misery, sorrow and guilt and tell the world they deserve it and you emotional retards feel nothing for them?

God forbid a child of yours has/or does ever wonder off for a few hours without your knowledge. The worry and absolute terror you will feel for those few hours will almost drive you crazy. That girls parents have had almost two weeks unending of that with more to come and have some life ahead of them. But hey they got their due desserts didn't they?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Gnevin on May 15, 2007, 10:20:35 AM
But hey they got their due desserts didn't they?
I don't think anyone is saying that but at the same time you cant say leaving 2 one years olds and a 3 year old alone is a good idea in any curcumstances.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: sureyouwill on May 15, 2007, 10:26:08 AM
Christ, how some of you can be so heartless or cruel is beyond me. Yes the parents were stupid for going for a meal in 50 yards away from their sleeping kids. But how the hell you are unable to feel sympathy for them is just mind boggling. Its their own fault so they deserve it? Thats a load of self righteous bollox.

Do you not think they realise their error? That they are not absolutely torn apart with guilt and remorse? That their two remaining children will never and i mean never leave their sight again? God forbid that the little girl turns up hurt or worse, how is it going to affect them and the two remaining kids as a family? Their lives are changed for ever no matter what way this turns out. Life will never be the same again. Those two parents are condemned to a life of worry and fretting about their kids. Think about it. Every time the kids leave the house for the next 20 odd years, everytime they are 5 minutes late, everytime they go out to play, they go to a friends house, everytime they go to the shop on the corner, everytime they go to school those parents are going to be worrying about where they are, who they are with, what they are doing, are they safe until they are home again. They and their kids deserve all that do they?

It makes me sick how those of you who are so perfect and dwell up there on the moral high ground can come onto a forum with your moral indignation and pontificate and wallow in their unimaginable misery, sorrow and guilt and tell the world they deserve it and you emotional retards feel nothing for them?

God forbid a child of yours has/or does ever wonder off for a few hours without your knowledge. The worry and absolute terror you will feel for those few hours will almost drive you crazy. That girls parents have had almost two weeks unending of that with more to come and have some life ahead of them. But hey they got their due desserts didn't they?

The parents weren't stupid leaving 2 one year olds and a 3 year old on their own whilst they went of to have a meal and a few drinks, they were totally irresponsible and selfish, and their actions warrant that being said.  No one is saying they deserve their daughter being kidnapped but it is hard to feel sympathy for them when they showed a lack or caring leaving such helpless children to fend for themselves, irrespective if they were being "checked on", is it not a crime to leave children home alone, especially ones so young.  As for you statement I put in bold that would never happen to me and I certainly wouldn't wander of myself and leave my children unattended in a house, not even my own house, are you actually advocating that this is ok and acceptable for christ's sake the kids ages were 1,1 and 3!!!!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Hound on May 15, 2007, 10:28:20 AM
I agree to a certain extenet with Ryano. There's a lot of different stories going around as to the actual facts of the case. From what I heard this was a self-contained holiday complex - I was in a similar one last year. Nobody is supposed to be let into the grounds unless they are a resident or a worker. They were only 50 yards from their room, and they could see the front door. But they came in the back and took Maddy.

The way these complexes work, I'm not surprised that people could be lulled into a false sense of security that it wasnt much different to leaving the kids in their room upstairs, like they do every day when they're at home. Personally I'd never do it, but there was a woman on BBC 5 Live the day after the disappearance saying that she was at one of these complexes recently and she and a lot of the other parents did exactly the same thing. There were staff who did regular walk-bys of all the rooms (baby listening service, it was called) and they'd announce every so often in the restaurant the numbers of rooms where noise (crying presumably) was coming from.  
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Gnevin on May 15, 2007, 10:38:40 AM
I agree to a certain extenet with Ryano. There's a lot of different stories going around as to the actual facts of the case. From what I heard this was a self-contained holiday complex - I was in a similar one last year. Nobody is supposed to be let into the grounds unless they are a resident or a worker. They were only 50 yards from their room, and they could see the front door. But they came in the back and took Maddy.

The way these complexes work, I'm not surprised that people could be lulled into a false sense of security that it wasnt much different to leaving the kids in their room upstairs, like they do every day when they're at home. Personally I'd never do it, but there was a woman on BBC 5 Live the day after the disappearance saying that she was at one of these complexes recently and she and a lot of the other parents did exactly the same thing. There were staff who did regular walk-bys of all the rooms (baby listening service, it was called) and they'd announce every so often in the restaurant the numbers of rooms where noise (crying presumably) was coming from.  
Well then thats fine then , ifs someone was walking by every so often .  ::)
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: realredhandfan on May 15, 2007, 10:41:13 AM
I just find the rage against the parents unduly unbalanced.  What a sick fucked up world we live in.  Stupid - yes, naive/ innocent - possibly,  irresponsible - yes. paying for it - yes - more than the rest of us hopefully will ever know.  the big tragedy here now is the probable murder of such a young baby and the subsequent fear and dread felt by all parents everywhere.  In a world like this is; the reality is a kid could be plucked from your front garden, as they walk home from school.  We talk about freedom.  Over the last few years many people suggested that the biggest threat to our free livelihoods has been the terror attacks and now we are extensively checked everywhere we travel, we travel in fear.  I believe something like this would put more fear into anyone than any terrorist attack and could ultimately lead to us living in round the clock fear.  The death penalty is the only solution for anyone that does this to a child and a family.      
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on May 15, 2007, 10:49:45 AM
I just find the rage against the parents unduly unbalanced.  What a sick fucked up world we live in.  Stupid - yes, naive/ innocent - possibly,  irresponsible - yes. paying for it - yes - more than the rest of us hopefully will ever know.  the big tragedy here now is the probable murder of such a young baby and the subsequent fear and dread felt by all parents everywhere.  In a world like this is; the reality is a kid could be plucked from your front garden, as they walk home from school.  We talk about freedom.  Over the last few years many people suggested that the biggest threat to our free livelihoods has been the terror attacks and now we are extensively checked everywhere we travel, we travel in fear.  I believe something like this would put more fear into anyone than any terrorist attack and could ultimately lead to us living in round the clock fear.  The death penalty is the only solution for anyone that does this to a child and a family.      


Well said.

Yes the parents were irresponsible but lets not forget the sick b**tards that stole the child, if it hadn't of been "Maddy" then it would have been some other young child.

My only hope is that the child was abducted by someone who has lost a child themselves or someone who cannot have children, and that she is returned physically unharmed - the other option is unthinkable.

Maybe I'm being naive but I still hold out hope that she is still alive.

God bless her AND her family.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ONeill on May 15, 2007, 11:06:44 AM
Some real hindsighters on this thread. I'm sure they have all the evidence on what exactly happened. I'm sure they've never made an error of judgement either.

You couldn't begin to imagine the array of guilt that couple are feeling, amongst other emotions. For all we know they may have been model parents up until that moment. That holiday complex offers babysitting services so it's odd they didn't avail of them. I was reading there the unfortunate friendsreunited entry for the father just after the twins were born where he asks if anyone fancies babysitting.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: realredhandfan on May 15, 2007, 11:08:16 AM
remember we'd all do it differently given that second chance, but for some there is no second chances.  This will kill them slowly over their living lives. God bless them and their wee girl, and let us hope there is hope.    
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Fionntamhnach on May 15, 2007, 11:13:43 AM
Some people here need to get off their high horses. Of course the parents made a big mistake, a big one, and I hope the girl is reunited with her family unharmed. But its the media blow-out and spin on it all that is cynical - had the parents been a couple of layabouts from a sink estate in London does anyone seriously think there would be the same coverage?

If she isn't found very shortly the tabloids will move away quick enough to the next story, with the case being quickly forgotten on the public eye.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on May 15, 2007, 11:15:16 AM
A British man is officially a suspect, breaking news on the BBC
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ziggysego on May 15, 2007, 12:14:51 PM
and no-one seems to mention the double kidnap of two 10 years old, over the past two weeks....
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Uladh on May 15, 2007, 12:24:31 PM

 
The sealed off single-storey building is known as Casa Liliana
A British man questioned over the disappearance of Madeleine McCann in Portugal is being formally treated by police as a suspect.
He is believed to be Robert Murat, who shares a villa with his mother Jenny, 71, in Praia da Luz, Algarve.

Officers have searched the property close to where four-year-old Madeleine of Rothley, Leicestershire, was last seen and questioned three people.

One of them has been given "arguido" status - equivalent to a suspect.

However, a person questioned by police may ask for such a status to be invoked as it gives them greater legal rights.



Map of locations
Under the Portuguese legal system, people who are questioned are not arrested but treated as witnesses.

Arrests can only be made when police designate someone as an arguido.

BBC correspondent Richard Bilton said a British man in his 30s has been given arguido status.

It is understood the other people to be questioned were a German woman and a Portuguese man.

'Alibi'

The search of the property known as Casa Liliana began at 0700 local time on Monday after Sunday Mirror journalist Lori Campbell had spoken to the British Embassy and the police about Mr Murat.

He had become well known to journalists during the search for Madeleine.

 
The villa is owned by Jenny Murat and used by son Robert

Mr Murat, formerly of Hockering, Norfolk, describes himself as half-Portuguese and told reporters he had been helping police with translation work during the investigation.

Mr Murat's mother is a former nurse who has lived in Portugal for 40 years and brought her son and daughter up in the country.

When asked by the BBC on Monday why the villa was being searched, Mrs Murat replied: "I don't know why."

She then said she was "not allowed" to speak to reporters, before moving away.

Mrs Murat, believed to be a widow, has been running a stall on the seafront in Praia da Luz, appealing for information from the public about Madeleine's disappearance.

  His mother says that on the night the kid disappeared they were both in the house together all night

Ralph Eveleigh, Robert Murat's uncle

Catherine Roberts, a friend of the family in Portugal, said: "Jenny is very well known around here - she has lived here most of her life.

"And the family has a very good reputation and a very good name."

Mr Murat's uncle, Ralph Eveleigh, told the BBC his nephew had an alibi for the night Madeleine went missing.

"His mother says that on the night the kid disappeared they were both in the house together all night," he said.

Officers in white suits with facemasks were seen at the Murat's villa and in its grounds on Monday evening.

It is believed the search has included draining its swimming pool.

'Concrete evidence'

Last week searches were scaled back in the area immediately around the holiday apartment where Madeleine was last seen on 3 May.

The focus had shifted to an international child abduction inquiry, amid suggestions she may have been taken out of Portugal.

 
Madeleine McCann disappeared on 3 May

Madeleine is believed to have been abducted while her parents were eating at a tapas bar.

On Monday, her parents Kate and Gerry McCann said they would not return to the UK until Madeleine was found safe and well.

Mr McCann, who is originally from Glasgow, said the couple would continue to believe she was being cared for until they received "concrete evidence to the contrary".

He said they had drawn "tremendous strength from the warmth and the spiritual outpouring" the couple had received from around the world.

British ambassador to Portugal John Buck said there were "impressive resources" being devoted to the investigation and praised the "truly exceptional" collaboration between the Portuguese and British police.

Rewards totalling £2.5m have been offered to anyone with information leading to the safe return of Madeleine, who was four on Saturday.

A "fighting fund" to which members of the public can donate to help in the search for Madeleine is also being set up by her family's lawyers.

The international number for Crimestoppers is +44 1883 731 336. People with information about Madeleine can call anonymously.

Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on May 15, 2007, 12:53:57 PM
and no-one seems to mention the double kidnap of two 10 years old, over the past two weeks....


Should that not be "attempted" Ziggy?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ziggysego on May 15, 2007, 01:24:05 PM
and no-one seems to mention the double kidnap of two 10 years old, over the past two weeks....


Should that not be "attempted" Ziggy?

Oh yeah, sorry
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: guy crouchback on May 15, 2007, 02:10:39 PM
on the ITV lunchtime news they said it was the cesspool that had been drained.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: The Iceman on May 15, 2007, 02:39:05 PM
So how many reports do we have on this flippin discussion.

The kids were checked on every 15 minutes

The restaurant was 50m away.

The window was not broken into -there was no signs of a forced entry.  The wee girl obviously left the appartment by herself looking for her parents and got snatched by some opportune sex pest.

It was extrmemely irresponsible of the parents.

But right now they don't need our criticism they need our prayers.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: full back on May 15, 2007, 02:43:31 PM
Maybe I got the wrong end of the stick here,
But had the shutters on the window been tampered with, thought I heard this
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Uladh on May 15, 2007, 02:45:38 PM
If there's no forced entry, could she have wandered out and up ended in a pool or a septic tank or similar?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: High Catch on May 15, 2007, 02:50:48 PM
Suely if she wandered away on her own she would have been found dead or alive by now.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Uladh on May 15, 2007, 03:10:58 PM

Probably
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: The Real Laoislad on May 15, 2007, 03:16:21 PM
God forgive me for saying this but has anyone else considered the idea that maybe the parents have something to do with this?
In case like this surely they have to be suspects too?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: full back on May 15, 2007, 03:20:21 PM
What do you mean Laoislad?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Uladh on May 15, 2007, 03:22:31 PM

Shit

Never considered that. I hope to God not.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: The Real Laoislad on May 15, 2007, 03:26:00 PM
What do you mean Laoislad?


There was no forced entry,How do we know that the Dad or Mum didn't accidently kill the child thru whatever means and this is a cover up
I feel awful for even thinking it but these days it's not beyond the realms of possibility
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: sureyouwill on May 15, 2007, 03:27:02 PM
God forgive me for saying this but has anyone else considered the idea that maybe the parents have something to do with this?
In case like this surely they have to be suspects too?

Unfortunately it is a plausible scenario.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: full back on May 15, 2007, 03:28:14 PM
When it first happened, I thought I heard reports that the shutters on the window had been tampered with? Anyone else hear that?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: hardstation on May 15, 2007, 03:31:54 PM
Quote
There was no forced entry,How do we know that the Dad or Mum didn't accidently kill the child thru whatever means and this is a cover up
I feel awful for even thinking it but these days it's not beyond the realms of possibility
I have been thinking this myself over the week. It just doesn't seem to add up.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ExiledGael on May 15, 2007, 03:46:31 PM
I definitely heard the shutters had been forced open, but at this stage of the case I've heard a lot of accounts and some are beginning to sound quite conflicting
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on May 15, 2007, 06:46:58 PM
Ryano
Quote
It makes me sick how those of you who are so perfect and dwell up there on the moral high ground can come onto a forum with your moral indignation and pontificate and wallow in their unimaginable misery, sorrow and guilt and tell the world they deserve it and you emotional retards feel nothing for them?
Get off your high horse!!  Nobody is wallowing in anything.  It wasn't as if the parents were distracted for two minutes or had a moment when they weren't thinking, they left 3 babies at home alone while they went for a meal!!  It is irrelevant if the restaurant was 200 yards away or 50, or if they were checking on them every 15 minutes or every hour. How can any of you possibly think that that is acceptable??  Their own selfishness played a big part in this, how can I feel sympathy for them, my sympathy is with the child. 

Hound
Quote
The way these complexes work, I'm not surprised that people could be lulled into a false sense of security that it wasnt much different to leaving the kids in their room upstairs, like they do every day when they're at home.
There is a massive difference in leaving a child upstairs in bed and doing what they did. A child upstairs in bed only needs to call and their parents will be there.  Maddie or her brothers would have been some time calling or crying before their parents came to their aid. 

Quote
There were staff who did regular walk-bys of all the rooms (baby listening service, it was called) and they'd announce every so often in the restaurant the numbers of rooms where noise (crying presumably) was coming from. 
That's incredibile.  I know there are bound to be some parents who would find that acceptable but there are actually that many that the complex put on a service?  Why do people have children then spend most of their time palming on the responsibility to someone else?  Why bring a child on holiday if you're going to treat them like a nuisance. 

Fionn
Quote
But its the media blow-out and spin on it all that is cynical - had the parents been a couple of layabouts from a sink estate in London does anyone seriously think there would be the same coverage?
Certainly not, they would be destroyed!!  Can you imagine if a child was kidnapped from a council estate home while her parents were down the pub!! There would be outrage and social services would be all over them - rightly so. 

Laoislad
Quote
God forgive me for saying this but has anyone else considered the idea that maybe the parents have something to do with this?
It was the first thing that entered my head. 
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ExiledGael on May 15, 2007, 06:52:37 PM
I hope your suspisions on the parents don't prove true!
If they do they're the best actors I've ever seen, surely they couldn't go true all this in front of the world's cameras if they were hiding a terrible secret
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: The Real Laoislad on May 15, 2007, 07:27:47 PM
I hope your suspisions on the parents don't prove true!
If they do they're the best actors I've ever seen, surely they couldn't go true all this in front of the world's cameras if they were hiding a terrible secret

Ian Huntley,Wayne O'Donoughe both managed it
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ExiledGael on May 15, 2007, 07:33:42 PM
Huntley was a fringe person in the case, the cameras have not been off the McCann's now for two weeks, I would be absolutely shocked if it was the case.
It never ever crossed my mind, it's funny how different people look at situations immediately, some psychologists would probably tell you that means you have the psychology of a killer or something!
Or maybe your a Cop/Guard! :o
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: The Real Laoislad on May 15, 2007, 07:36:24 PM
Huntley was a fringe person in the case, the cameras have not been off the McCann's now for two weeks, I would be absolutely shocked if it was the case.
It never ever crossed my mind, it's funny how different people look at situations immediately, some psychologists would probably tell you that means you have the psychology of a killer or something!
Or maybe your a Cop/Guard! :o

Im not but my Brother is so is my Sister in law  and Brother in law and one of my best mates is one too,Maybe im spending too much time around them! :-\
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ExiledGael on May 15, 2007, 07:41:49 PM
Shit you're serious!
Hmm, maybe I could be a Cop/Guard!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ziggysego on May 15, 2007, 07:47:18 PM
To be honest, the thought has crossed my mind once or twice. I hope to God it isn't the case, don't honestly think it is the case either.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Fluffy Che on May 15, 2007, 08:07:30 PM
The parents as suspects will be a logical line of enquiry as time passes but lets not rush to judgement just yet! Hopefully this child will turn up unharmed but what the parents did was wrong, any number of scenarios could have happened, fire, sickness, accident etc. 
The British press really get my goat tho', if it were a couple of chavs and they were in the pub or bingo they'd be hung, drawn, and quartered by now.
Prayers for the safe return of the child..
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Redgreenery on May 15, 2007, 08:39:47 PM
Hope the poor child returns soon, must be extremly hard for the parents, can only imagine what the fear would be like for both the parents and the child. Horrifying.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: hardstation on May 16, 2007, 12:04:16 AM
Quote
As per Sky News tonight the suspect Murat was having an affair with Maddie's mother
Holy ghost! Is this why he became a suspect or did it come out after???
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ludermor on May 16, 2007, 12:06:59 AM
i didnt see any sign of this can you post a link ?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: stephenite on May 16, 2007, 05:39:09 AM
From Smh.com.au

A British man named as a formal suspect in the disappearance of four-year-old Madeleine McCann says he is a "scapegoat" and the accusation has "ruined his life".

Robert Murat was questioned on Monday while forensic experts searched his house just metres from where the girl was snatched 13 days ago in Praia da Luz in Portugal.

Mr Murat, a German woman and a Portuguese man were interviewed by police until late Monday night then released, a source close to the investigation said.

Although Mr Murat has not been charged and is not believed to be in custody, it is thought he is the first person to be formally classed as a suspect.

In an off-camera interview with a British Sky News reporter, Mr Murat said Portuguese police had made him a "scapegoat".

"This has ruined my life and made my life very difficult for my family here and in Britain," he told Sky.

"The only way I will survive this is if they catch Madeleine's abductor."

"I've been made a scapegoat for something I did not do."

Mr Murat's mother also spoke to Sky News, saying her son had a "strong alibi" for the night Madeleine disappeared.

She told a reporter he came home at 7pm, followed by her an hour later, after which they had dinner and went to bed.

Mr Murat, who comes from Norfolk, eastern England, and is believed to have a four-year-old daughter, had put himself forward to reporters since the morning after Madeleine's disappearance, saying he was helping police because he was fluent in Portuguese and English.

However, two journalists reported him to British police on Monday after he mentioned that his daughter looked like Madeleine and he refused to give details of his past.

A journalist with the Sunday Mirror, Lori Campbell, said Mr Murat had raised her suspicions and she had approached police.

"Basically, he surfaced on Friday afternoon last week and was walking around as if he was somebody official," Campbell said. "He said that he was just a local guy who spoke fluent Portuguese and English and was helping the family. He was coming in and out of the family apartment speaking with the media but when questioned about it he was very vague about his position.

"He kept trying to emphasise parts of the investigation such as, 'Maybe she's gone to Spain, maybe it's too late.' "


Meanwhile, thousands of pictures of Madeleine will be distributed in holiday ticket wallets sold in Britain.

Travel agent Travelcare is joining the campaign to find her by distributing the pictures to their customers along with details of whom to contact should they have any information.

The company, which is part of the Co-operative Group, is Britain's largest independent travel retailer. It distributes an average of 10,000 wallets every week, through 300 high-street travel agencies, a website and a phone service.

"The more publicity and constant reminders about Madeleine can only help in the search," said Travelcare spokesman Paul Kendrick. "By targeting holidaymakers in this way, we are helping spread the message worldwide, as well as hammering home the message for families to remain vigilant while enjoying their break away."

The publicity material has been provided by the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre, in conjunction with the Portuguese police.

...

I hope that it can be proved that he was the one responsible, otherwise these journalists should be sacked on the spot - does anyone esle feel that this way out of order?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Norf Tyrone on May 16, 2007, 06:32:30 AM
I heard the Sunday Mirror journalist yesterday who 'rumbled' him being interviewed, asked re her suspicion she stated that when she asked him questions he wouldn't giver her his last name, his mobile number nor specificly where he lived!

Now maybe there is more to it that she couldn't say but Wooohh Sherlock!
If that's the sum of her suspicion it's a good job she didn't ask me!

But sure it'll sell a few more papers on Sunday.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: stephenite on May 16, 2007, 06:51:41 AM
I heard the Sunday Mirror journalist yesterday who 'rumbled' him being interviewed, asked re her suspicion she stated that when she asked him questions he wouldn't giver her his last name, his mobile number nor specificly where he lived!

Now maybe there is more to it that she couldn't say but Wooohh Sherlock!
If that's the sum of her suspicion it's a good job she didn't ask me!

But sure it'll sell a few more papers on Sunday.

Yeah, but in this day and age where the media have such control over peoples perceptions, the journalist in question should be held to account for this, if proved wrong. The court of public opinion can be devestating today

Rightly or wrongly this guy's life is ruined, his name is forver tarnished and he could be completley innocent.
All because some journo decicded to take this on herself - it will be commenable if proved correct, but I have my doubts given the circumstances in which the allegations were raised.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Hound on May 16, 2007, 08:10:47 AM

Rightly or wrongly this guy's life is ruined, his name is forver tarnished and he could be completley innocent.
All because some journo decicded to take this on herself - it will be commenable if proved correct, but I have my doubts given the circumstances in which the allegations were raised.

No. The journalist suggested to the police that they look into this guy. It was purely then down to the police to make a decision re arresting him.

Quote
I definitely heard the shutters had been forced open
Absolutely. I have found no reference anywhere to the "no forced entry" angle some people are trying to put on it.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: stephenite on May 16, 2007, 08:29:04 AM

No. The journalist suggested to the police that they look into this guy. It was purely then down to the police to make a decision re arresting him.


True,but should that journalist then be quoted allow herself to be quoted in the context of those suspicions prior to any formal charges being laid? Professional misconduct at best in my view, point is they should be held acountable.
We'll see how it plays out but if this guy is completley innocent it's a shocking that he will now carry the stigma of this case for the rest of his life
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on May 16, 2007, 08:32:32 AM
Quote
I heard the Sunday Mirror journalist yesterday who 'rumbled' him being interviewed, asked re her suspicion she stated that when she asked him questions he wouldn't giver her his last name, his mobile number nor specificly where he lived!

She must have some time running to the police everytime someone wouldn't tell her their mobile number!!!!!
Surely there has to be more to the police investigation on him than that!

Madeline's aunt is after been on the BBC coming cross very bad.  Agressive and smart arsed. 
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: full back on May 16, 2007, 10:20:16 AM
As per Sky News tonight the suspect Murat was having an affair with Maddie's mother
???
Have you a link to this Laoislad?
Fcuk, if this is true, it is shocking
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: AZOffaly on May 16, 2007, 10:21:19 AM
Laoislad, I haven't seen that mentioned anywhere. Did you pick this up wrong?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 16, 2007, 10:47:34 AM
Laoislad, I haven't seen that mentioned anywhere. Did you pick this up wrong?

I think he did:
He said Murat had at least two affairs with women at the plant.

Paul later employed him as a car salesman at a garage. He said: “We got matey, but there’s a coldness and distance to him.”

It also emerged that Murat had a 14-month affair with a married mum. He romanced German blonde Michaela Walczuch, 33, who had a Portuguese husband, Luis Antonio, 47.

Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: AZOffaly on May 16, 2007, 10:48:40 AM
That's what I thought. Just shows you how stories can spread and be totally false.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: full back on May 16, 2007, 11:02:16 AM
Laoislad, WTF?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on May 16, 2007, 12:06:58 PM
Laoislad, that was scurrilous and dangerous. The parents are getting enough of a pasting on here without adding to it by saying that the mother is an adultress!!!  :-\
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: stephenite on May 16, 2007, 12:37:29 PM
Jaysus Gaoth and Full Back, go easy on Laoislad - he's only reporting what he heard on Sky and said as much. He may have got his wired crossed but it's not like he made it up off the top of his head for the crack.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Heshs Umpire on May 16, 2007, 01:59:06 PM
As per Sky News tonight the suspect Murat was having an affair with Maddie's mother

You really should be more careful about what you write. Sky News said no such thing. They referred to an affair he had with a German woman.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: High Catch on May 16, 2007, 03:04:09 PM
More stories and conspiracies in the Mirror today. Its all getting out of hand and certain papers are using this story now to fill pages rather than keep the public informed of actual progress with the search etc.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: sureyouwill on May 16, 2007, 03:22:13 PM
As per Sky News tonight the suspect Murat was having an affair with Maddie's mother

You really should be more careful about what you write. Sky News said no such thing. They referred to an affair he had with a German woman.

Wouldn't be first time Laoislad has made false accusations.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: full back on May 16, 2007, 03:23:35 PM
How so sureyouwill?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: sureyouwill on May 16, 2007, 03:30:25 PM
Just found this on the BBC which shows how close the parents were to the children as they merrily ate and drank!!

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Syd on May 16, 2007, 03:45:29 PM
More stories and conspiracies in the Mirror today. Its all getting out of hand and certain papers are using this story now to fill pages rather than keep the public informed of actual progress with the search etc.

What have The Mirror come up with High Catch?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: High Catch on May 16, 2007, 03:59:49 PM
The headline is "A Tangled Love Life". Something to do with the suspect, his lover and business partner and his lover's husband.  It says they are alll being quizzed. Nothing with any substance. Though they had the exclusive on Warnock's resignation.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: The Real Laoislad on May 16, 2007, 05:08:19 PM
I apologise to all i picked it up wrong, Hesh's Umpire is right in his post.I was in no way trying to cause anything it was a mistake on my part
And sureyouwill grow up and don't try and turn everything into a petty row,I made a mistake and i realised so this morning when i was at work
Once again to all i apologise
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: The Real Laoislad on May 16, 2007, 05:23:05 PM
Sorry 5ive times it was a genuine mistake feel quite embarrassed about it but there was no harm intended i just picked what they were reporting up wrong
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on May 16, 2007, 06:42:29 PM
Quote
The headline is "A Tangled Love Life". Something to do with the suspect, his lover and business partner and his lover's husband.  It says they are alll being quizzed. Nothing with any substance. Though they had the exclusive on Warnock's resignation.
Read that today too, about two pages on it and I couldn't tell you now what they were going on about.  I do know that they've claimed the 3 "fitted the descriptions" of those on cctv footage at some petrol station talking to madeline. 
The mirror had an awful load of shite today too about yer man's ex wife.  It was quite clear the gathered up all the neighbourhood gossips and made a story, pathetic excuse for reporting.  Apparently him and the wife moved to portugal and she came home after 3 or 4 months.  All the local busy bodies must have gathered to tell them how upset she was when she came home, how she looked like she was going to cry etc.  The funny part was one claimed she found out something about him over there...he must have let it slip he was a child killer  ::) 
Of course the explanation of his friend that the wife failed to settle in portugal, moved home and they grew apart is ridiculous!

Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on May 16, 2007, 07:07:47 PM
I'm glad you posted up that picture sureyouwill!! 
I notice the ones defended the parents didn't come back to argue their case.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: cicfada on May 16, 2007, 07:43:29 PM
Obviously the parents have to take the ultimate responsibility here as it was their  big mistake that facilitated  the kidnapping.But my heart does go out  to them as they will have to live with this for the rest of their lives.I am not going to sit here though and judge them though unlike others. can anyone (parents that is) sit here and tell me they haven't made mistakes/ bad judgements/ etc etc with their children??There   are no such parents I guarantee  you.Parenting is a learning curve that you  childless ones will find out yourselves and unfortunately for these parents, it has been a curve too steep!!Maybe those of you who are judging them  will be comforted by the thought that the child may never be found and that will punish the parents to their graves!!Yes,  they were irresponsible  but the focus now should be on finding the little girl
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ONeill on May 16, 2007, 07:47:01 PM
Anyone who buys British tabloids deserves to be fed shite.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: hardstation on May 16, 2007, 07:51:29 PM
Quote
Parenting is a learning curve that you  childless ones will find out yourselves and unfortunately for these parents, it has been a curve too steep
True, but a certain amount of common sense is required by the parents before they should even think about having children.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: cicfada on May 16, 2007, 07:52:57 PM
Quote
Parenting is a learning curve that you  childless ones will find out yourselves and unfortunately for these parents, it has been a curve too steep
True, but a certain amount of common sense is required by the parents before they should even think about having children.
[/quote
Yes I agree but as we know common sense isn't that common now is it??
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ziggysego on May 16, 2007, 08:02:06 PM
Anyone who buys British tabloids deserves to be fed shite.

I've seen the shit they've spread about people I know personally, so I for one definately don't buy the tabloids.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on May 16, 2007, 08:25:17 PM
cic
Quote
can anyone (parents that is) sit here and tell me they haven't made mistakes/ bad judgements/ etc etc with their children??
there's a difference between a mistake and negligence!

Quote
Maybe those of you who are judging them  will be comforted by the thought that the child may never be found and that will punish the parents to their graves!!Yes,  they were irresponsible  but the focus now should be on finding the little girl
And that's just silly.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ziggysego on May 16, 2007, 08:27:50 PM
I have to say I agree with everything Pint says, I just don't think now is the time to air them.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: SammyG on May 16, 2007, 09:06:34 PM
cic
Quote
can anyone (parents that is) sit here and tell me they haven't made mistakes/ bad judgements/ etc etc with their children??
there's a difference between a mistake and negligence!

Quote
Maybe those of you who are judging them  will be comforted by the thought that the child may never be found and that will punish the parents to their graves!!Yes,  they were irresponsible  but the focus now should be on finding the little girl
And that's just silly.

Not something I say very often but I agree 100% with pog. I hope the kid turns up safe and well but when she does the parents should be prosecuted for neglect.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: cicfada on May 16, 2007, 09:11:35 PM
cic
Quote
can anyone (parents that is) sit here and tell me they haven't made mistakes/ bad judgements/ etc etc with their children??
there's a difference between a mistake and negligence!

Quote
Maybe those of you who are judging them  will be comforted by the thought that the child may never be found and that will punish the parents to their graves!!Yes,  they were irresponsible  but the focus now should be on finding the little girl
And that's just silly.

Not something I say very often but I agree 100% with pog. I hope the kid turns up safe and well but when she does the parents should be prosecuted for neglect.

Glad I brought ye together Sammy!!charges   could  well be brought but how do you prove neglect or negligence in this case??God forbid that  either of the parents could be more culpable in another way  in this case as well!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: hardstation on May 17, 2007, 12:56:00 AM
Quote
I hope the kid turns up safe and well but when she does the parents should be prosecuted for neglect.
What about the other two children?? Where are they? I wouldn't be surprised if they're with social services.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: balladmaker on May 17, 2007, 01:05:59 AM
I won't put the boot into the parents at this stage, to say I feel sorry for them is an understatement...it must be horrific what they are going through.

To put a more local perspective on it, its amazing that only a few weeks ago at Easter time, that little girl was running around Leo's Tavern in Crolly near Gweedore.  Little did the family know what was ahead of them in the coming few weeks!

Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: hardstation on May 17, 2007, 01:15:55 AM
She was in Min na Leice in the Rosses if she was in Leo's tavern but had she been in Buckingham Palace, what differnce does it make? She was in the Al Garve the day before and it will always be hard to imagine what she was thinking. It must be awful for the family to think that she was only taking a holiday and enjoying herself when the worst happened. Poor wee girl, God knows where she is.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: sureyouwill on May 17, 2007, 07:32:45 AM
cic
Quote
can anyone (parents that is) sit here and tell me they haven't made mistakes/ bad judgements/ etc etc with their children??
there's a difference between a mistake and negligence!

Quote
Maybe those of you who are judging them  will be comforted by the thought that the child may never be found and that will punish the parents to their graves!!Yes,  they were irresponsible  but the focus now should be on finding the little girl
And that's just silly.

Not something I say very often but I agree 100% with pog. I hope the kid turns up safe and well but when she does the parents should be prosecuted for neglect.

Glad I brought ye together Sammy!!charges   could  well be brought but how do you prove neglect or negligence in this case??God forbid that  either of the parents could be more culpable in another way  in this case as well!

Are you serious, please have another look at the map - these people were out merrily earing and drinking, whilst their kids aged 1, 1 and 3 were left totally unattended, I also doubt their alarm went of ever 15 minutes or half hour to remind them to stop their converation, stop eating their food, stop sipping their drink and race back to check!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: cicfada on May 17, 2007, 08:46:27 AM
I have admitted that the parents are somewhat responsible for the disappearance of the child but at the end of the day an abductor did take the child. I believe they are being punished enough and if the child is not found would have a lifetime of punishment.WOuld this not be enough for you??What possible good could come out of  prosecuting the parents other than to keep the baying mob happy??And have any of you considered the punishment that the other 2 children would suffer, if their parents were put away for a stretch??that's my humble opinion anyway, we'll agree to differ I suppose.That's my last word on this tragedy!!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on May 17, 2007, 09:33:43 AM
There's a little boy went missing in March from a poor part of Gran Canaria called Heremí - his posters are all over the holiday island but not a mention outside of there. It would still break your heart that someone could take a child away.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Star Spangler on May 17, 2007, 09:47:06 AM
I'm not entirely sure how leaving kids sleeping in their bedroom can be classified as negligent.  I suspect those saying otherwise don't have any children.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: sureyouwill on May 17, 2007, 09:57:10 AM
I'm not entirely sure how leaving kids sleeping in their bedroom can be classified as negligent.  I suspect those saying otherwise don't have any children.

It is if you f**k off down to the local pub, are you therefore saying you have kids and at that young age you would put them to bed, physically leave the building that they were in and piss off out for the night, neglect doesn't come close.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: the Deel Rover on May 17, 2007, 10:01:23 AM
All that matters at the moment is finding maddie and hoping that she is alive, of course our thoughts are with her  parents but i still can't believe that maddies parents went out for meal and left their 3 children under 4 years of age alone. As a parent myself my main duty is to protect my kids especially in this day and age ,i know its a sad state of affairs but i would not let my children play out in the front garden unattended because you do not know who is out there, you don't know who may be watching. When people choose to become parents from the moment your child is born you life changes only 1 thing in life matters and that is your child, they are precious and come before everything else.     
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: full back on May 17, 2007, 10:51:32 AM
I see there was some Russian man taken for questioning
Any more development on this?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Hound on May 17, 2007, 10:55:51 AM
but i still can't believe that maddies parents went out for meal and left their 3 children under 4 years of age alone. As a parent myself my main duty is to protect my kids especially in this day and age ,i know its a sad state of affairs but i would not let my children play out in the front garden unattended because you do not know who is out there, you don't know who may be watching. When people choose to become parents from the moment your child is born you life changes only 1 thing in life matters and that is your child, they are precious and come before everything else.     
Totally agree with you regarding the protection of children, but having stayed in one of these resorts/complexes, it wouldnt really feel like you "went out for meal and left your children alone". You're still in the complex, you're only across the swimming pool from your kids who are asleep in bed. I do not know what security is like in that particular compex, but in the one I was in last year there were only two entrances and both had 24 hour security. Nobody allowed in unless you are a resident or a worker.

I have a 5 year old and a 3 year old, and like you I wouldnt dream of leaving them on their own for even a minute, but I can understand how the parents got lulled into a sense of security, especially as there would have been other parents doing exactly the same thing.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: High Catch on May 17, 2007, 11:07:21 AM
This seems to be the best explanation for what the parents did.  i have never stayed in one of these complex's but you can understand that they did feel the children were safe and out of harm.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: the Deel Rover on May 17, 2007, 11:27:03 AM
[
but i still can't believe that maddies parents went out for meal and left their 3 children under 4 years of age alone. As a parent myself my main duty is to protect my kids especially in this day and age ,i know its a sad state of affairs but i would not let my children play out in the front garden unattended because you do not know who is out there, you don't know who may be watching. When people choose to become parents from the moment your child is born you life changes only 1 thing in life matters and that is your child, they are precious and come before everything else.     
Totally agree with you regarding the protection of children, but having stayed in one of these resorts/complexes, it wouldnt really feel like you "went out for meal and left your children alone". You're still in the complex, you're only across the swimming pool from your kids who are asleep in bed. I do not know what security is like in that particular compex, but in the one I was in last year there were only two entrances and both had 24 hour security. Nobody allowed in unless you are a resident or a worker.

I have a 5 year old and a 3 year old, and like you I wouldnt dream of leaving them on their own for even a minute, but I can understand how the parents got lulled into a sense of security, especially as there would have been other parents doing exactly the same thing.

I understand what your saying hound i also stayed in a similiar complex a few years ago it was gated security with only 1 entrance,One day we just popped down to the shops to get some messages came back 30 minutes later and our apartment was looted , imagine if we had left our kids there unattended.  my point is that you have to be even more carefull on holidays as you don't know who is watchng you.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: full back on May 17, 2007, 11:37:44 AM
Gated security!!
Let's be honest, would you really trust these guys that are passed off as security?
Most of them would sell their own mother for a fiver
Most of them dont give a fcuk who goes in or out of the complex & are counting down the minutes till the end of their shift
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 17, 2007, 12:22:33 PM
Let me ask one question.

Do you think the parents would have left £50k in cash sitting on the bed and went out for something to eat and drink?

You can bet your bottom dollar they wouldn't have as they would have thought "what if somone breaks in?"




I am a parent I can categorically state that my kids have never (and will never) be left alone where they can't be heard.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on May 17, 2007, 01:24:19 PM
Just got the e-mail that's doing the rounds at the minute with Maddys picture and the poster and a statement from a family member, forwarded it to everyone in my address book.

Have since received 4 differing e-mails containing similar info. Has anyone else received this or similar e-mails? They reckon it could be with approx 80% of the internet pop within 2 weeks!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: full back on May 17, 2007, 01:32:34 PM
Yeah, got one last week
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Declan on May 17, 2007, 01:35:33 PM
The hypocrisy on this story is driving me mad. My heart goes out to that poor child and, despite the mistake they made, the parents and please God she's found alive. However the saturation coverage is scandalous. Does anyone really think that if the parents were unemployed, from a council estate and were out,  leaving 3 kids under 5 alone,  that the treatment would be like this. My arse it would be. They'd have been hung, drawn and quartered by the very cheerleaders who are organising the funding and email campaign.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: laughinpaddy on May 17, 2007, 01:45:48 PM
What bugs me about this whole tradgety, is that the parents claim they left their children alone for that one time, but i find this hard to believe.  I don't think that if somebody was going to kidnap a child they would just randomly choose their room :-\
I believe that the person responsible for this terrible kidnapping was watching the family, and seen that at certain times of the day the parents were absent, and therefore seen this as their opportunity to act. 
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on May 17, 2007, 01:49:11 PM
What bugs me about this whole tradgety, is that the parents claim they left their children alone for that one time, but i find this hard to believe.  I don't think that if somebody was going to kidnap a child they would just randomly choose their room :-\
I believe that the person responsible for this terrible kidnapping was watching the family, and seen that at certain times of the day the parents were absent, and therefore seen this as their opportunity to act. 


Lot of speculation there Paddy!!!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: laughinpaddy on May 17, 2007, 01:55:32 PM
Yes, possibly.  But do you honestly believe that the kidnapper decided on that appartment, out of pure chance ???
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: rosnarun on May 17, 2007, 02:00:45 PM
some twisted sicko take a child but most of the posters here seem to want to attach blame to the parents, any child whos is allowed out to play is in danger of being kidnapped ,run over , groomed , raped ect but these are very rare occurances should we lock all our childern to their Playstations to grow stupid and obese because one child in a foreign country goes missing ? . statistic would shouw kids are in far more danger in the home or with male relatives than out playing. the fact that the story is still nnews 2 weeks later underlines this point.
. a little perspective please.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: sureyouwill on May 17, 2007, 02:06:35 PM
some twisted sicko take a child but most of the posters here seem to want to attach blame to the parents, any child whos is allowed out to play is in danger of being kidnapped ,run over , groomed , raped ect but these are very rare occurances should we lock all our childern to their Playstations to grow stupid and obese because one child in a foreign country goes missing ? . statistic would shouw kids are in far more danger in the home or with male relatives than out playing. the fact that the story is still nnews 2 weeks later underlines this point.
. a little perspective please.

Don't think any comment here suggested that, what a lot of people, including myself have said, is that it was total neglect and totally reprehensible to leave 2 one year olds and a 3 year old unattended whilst their parents enjoyed a night out;  I think you could do with a little perspective yourself.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on May 17, 2007, 02:07:26 PM
Quote
I'm not entirely sure how leaving kids sleeping in their bedroom can be classified as negligent.  I suspect those saying otherwise don't have any children.
Breathtaking!
I love this argument that anyone who doesn't have kids doesn't know what's acceptable and what's not.

JOe
Quote
Do you think the parents would have left £50k in cash sitting on the bed and went out for something to eat and drink?
Excellent point, nothing else needs said.

Quote
The hypocrisy on this story is driving me mad. My heart goes out to that poor child and, despite the mistake they made, the parents and please God she's found alive. However the saturation coverage is scandalous. Does anyone really think that if the parents were unemployed, from a council estate and were out,  leaving 3 kids under 5 alone,  that the treatment would be like this. My arse it would be. They'd have been hung, drawn and quartered by the very cheerleaders who are organising the funding and email campaign.
Agreed. I'm getting sick of it.  Now they're raising funds for the campaign, raising funds for what may I ask?
In the US alone 32,200 children would have been reported missing since then.  (http://www.childfindofamerica.org/)

Quote
any child whos is allowed out to play is in danger of being kidnapped ,run over , groomed , raped ect but these are very rare occurances should we lock all our childern to their Playstations to grow stupid and obese because one child in a foreign country goes missing ? . statistic would shouw kids are in far more danger in the home or with male relatives than out playing. the fact that the story is still nnews 2 weeks later underlines this point.
. a little perspective please.
What are you talking about? The children weren't outside playing. There was 3 babies left home alone.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: hardstation on May 17, 2007, 02:09:25 PM
Quote
Yes, possibly.  But do you honestly believe that the kidnapper decided on that appartment, out of pure chance
No but, he/she had more than likely seen the children with their parents. He/she could have seen the parents without the children and therefore gone to their apartment. It doesn't say how many times the parents have left the children alone. The same as someone wearing a £2000 watch everyday and then someone noticing that he has gone for a meal not wearing the watch.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: the Deel Rover on May 17, 2007, 02:15:40 PM
some twisted sicko take a child but most of the posters here seem to want to attach blame to the parents, any child whos is allowed out to play is in danger of being kidnapped ,run over , groomed , raped ect but these are very rare occurances should we lock all our childern to their Playstations to grow stupid and obese because one child in a foreign country goes missing ? . statistic would shouw kids are in far more danger in the home or with male relatives than out playing. the fact that the story is still nnews 2 weeks later underlines this point.
. a little perspective please.

your missing the point rosnarun, the fact of the matter is that if maddie was with her parents she would not be missing today.
Whats more important going out for a meal or minding your kids. There is a time and place for everthing. 
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: laughinpaddy on May 17, 2007, 02:47:26 PM
No but, he/she had more than likely seen the children with their parents. He/she could have seen the parents without the children and therefore gone to their apartment. It doesn't say how many times the parents have left the children alone. The same as someone wearing a £2000 watch everyday and then someone noticing that he has gone for a meal not wearing the watch.
I refer you to my first post
I believe that the person responsible for this terrible kidnapping was watching the family, and seen that at certain times of the day the parents were absent, and therefore seen this as their opportunity to act.  
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: hardstation on May 17, 2007, 02:54:39 PM
Quote
What bugs me about this whole tradgety, is that the parents claim they left their children alone for that one time, but i find this hard to believe.
Quote
I believe that the person responsible for this terrible kidnapping was watching the family, and seen that at certain times of the day the parents were absent, and therefore seen this as their opportunity to act.
   
How do you link these statements? All they needed was one opportunity.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: shotstopper1 on May 17, 2007, 04:01:35 PM
Just an aside from the McCann case,and as we're in the championship season, should the parents who lose their children at GAA matches also be prosecuted? and maybe have social services take any other children they have into care?


Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: hardstation on May 17, 2007, 04:14:16 PM
Quote
Just an aside from the McCann case,and as we're in the championship season, should the parents who lose their children at GAA matches also be prosecuted? and maybe have social services take any other children they have into care?
Ach now come on!!!!!!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on May 17, 2007, 04:21:54 PM
Just an aside from the McCann case,and as we're in the championship season, should the parents who lose their children at GAA matches also be prosecuted? and maybe have social services take any other children they have into care?

Well if they say, leave their 1 year old twins and 3 year old in the hogan while they head over to the cusack, yeah, they should.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: hardstation on May 17, 2007, 04:29:30 PM
Or if they leave the game at half time to nip out for a couple of pints, telling their 3 year old and two 1 year olds not to move and come back at full time to find them missing, YES!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ExiledGael on May 17, 2007, 06:28:35 PM
The stories circulating now say that this Murat suspect is a total wierdo. Apparently the police found videos of him slaughtering pets in his house and he has been known to the police in the past for sexually interfering with animals!!  :o
It will all come out in the days and weeks ahead believe it or not, but it's even on some English news wires this evening, still unreported
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ziggysego on May 17, 2007, 07:36:15 PM
The stories circulating now say that this Murat suspect is a total wierdo. Apparently the police found videos of him slaughtering pets in his house and he has been known to the police in the past for sexually interfering with animals!!  :o
It will all come out in the days and weeks ahead believe it or not, but it's even on some English news wires this evening, still unreported

There's bound to be some crazy shit stories floating about. Say nothing until you hear more.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: bennydorano on May 17, 2007, 10:26:20 PM
The British Media are making shit up as they go along I reckon.  From reading some stuff the Brit MEdia are cracking up with the Portuguese police as they have this peculiar custom of not telling the media their every move ::) as it may have an effect on any future court case (the same law apparently exists in the UK but is ignored).

It must be terrible for the parents(father of 3 myself), but like many others here I've been thinking what the f**k were they playing at and I totally agree that working class parents would have been slaughtered in the media. It does show how fucked up priorities are when this case dominates every news programme  24 hours a day and the world the way it is.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on May 18, 2007, 11:51:15 AM
I feel for the parents.........who on here with kids hasn't done one of the following

gone to the shop to buy the paper/milk and left kids in car

bought petrol and left kids in car

gone for a meal with baby monitor by side while kids slept upstairs(in hotel/restaurant)

I have done all of the above .........so I must be negligent also. ::)
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ONeill on May 18, 2007, 11:58:27 AM
I feel for the parents.........who on here with kids hasn't done one of the following

gone to the shop to buy the paper/milk and left kids in car

bought petrol and left kids in car

gone for a meal with baby monitor by side while kids slept upstairs(in hotel/restaurant)

I have done all of the above .........so I must be negligent also. ::)

1 - YES
2 - YES
3 - DEFINITELY NO
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: SammyG on May 18, 2007, 12:04:20 PM
I feel for the parents.........who on here with kids hasn't done one of the following

gone to the shop to buy the paper/milk and left kids in car

bought petrol and left kids in car

gone for a meal with baby monitor by side while kids slept upstairs(in hotel/restaurant)

I have done all of the above .........so I must be negligent also. ::)

No

Yes but the car was locked and I could see it

Definitely no wouldn't even consider it
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on May 18, 2007, 12:14:37 PM
Quote
I feel for the parents.........who on here with kids hasn't done one of the following

gone to the shop to buy the paper/milk and left kids in car

bought petrol and left kids in car

gone for a meal with baby monitor by side while kids slept upstairs(in hotel/restaurant)

I have done all of the above .........so I must be negligent also.

Hedley I was with you till the last one but that is just as bad.  When Mrs BC and I got married BC jnr1 was just 2.  We were lucky as the Fermanagh Cement men had a babysitting service in the Hotel and we were able to have a good hooley safe in the knowledge he was ok.  

The media in Britain and here to a lesser extent has the general populace used to hearing every gorey detail of every tragic event.  If this is not available to them sure they can make it up and when push comes to shove stick an apology and retraction on page 17 under the Psychic Live phone lines.  If these papers were any good they would use one of their psychics to find out the real facts ::)

The facts that are known in this case are known.  I think there will be more startling ones to come out as I have a very bad feeling about the way the whole thing is going, but speculation is wrong.  

The simpliest fact is a young angel is missing.  She reminds me of my own daughter and that really scares me.  Whether the parents were right or wrong will have no baring on what the future holds.  No punishment they receive will ever compare to the torment they will subject themselves to.  I obviously fear greatly for the missing girl, but also for the poor twins who may suffer as a result of the possible mental torture that their parents will go through over this.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: sureyouwill on May 18, 2007, 12:40:23 PM
I feel for the parents.........who on here with kids hasn't done one of the following

gone to the shop to buy the paper/milk and left kids in car

bought petrol and left kids in car

gone for a meal with baby monitor by side while kids slept upstairs(in hotel/restaurant)

I have done all of the above .........so I must be negligent also. ::)

No
As Sammy Yes and car was locked and I could see it.
No

But excuse me asking wtf has that got to do with going on holiday leaving 2 one year olds and a 3 year old totally unattended whilst you went out for the night dining and drinking?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Declan on May 18, 2007, 02:23:59 PM
Quote
gone to the shop to buy the paper/milk and left kids in car

bought petrol and left kids in car

gone for a meal with baby monitor by side while kids slept upstairs(in hotel/restaurant)

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes - Ostan na Rossa Dungloe and as well as the monitor we went to the room every 15 mins
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: rosnarun on May 18, 2007, 02:50:23 PM
Lads live in the real world for a minute.
so if you leave a child in the locked car and the car goes on fire would you then be negligent( car fires are as far more common occurances the child snatchings) or do you walk backwards in to the petrol station. why not get you child chipped
as regards 50k on the bed a totallyt facaectious  argument , who carries around 50K all day every day . 50 k does not  need to go to bed at 7pm every evening and be up an 6:30 in the morning.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on May 18, 2007, 05:08:30 PM
I feel for the parents.........who on here with kids hasn't done one of the following

gone to the shop to buy the paper/milk and left kids in car

bought petrol and left kids in car

gone for a meal with baby monitor by side while kids slept upstairs(in hotel/restaurant)

I have done all of the above .........so I must be negligent also. ::)

No
As Sammy Yes and car was locked and I could see it.
No

But excuse me asking wtf has that got to do with going on holiday leaving 2 one year olds and a 3 year old totally unattended whilst you went out for the night dining and drinking?

Hope you didn't hurt yourself when you got down off the cross. Al baby sitters in Armagh area better have police clearance if they are to get a job with you. :o
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on May 18, 2007, 05:43:02 PM
Quote
I feel for the parents.........who on here with kids hasn't done one of the following

gone to the shop to buy the paper/milk and left kids in car

bought petrol and left kids in car

gone for a meal with baby monitor by side while kids slept upstairs(in hotel/restaurant)

I've niece and nephew, 9 and 3 and if they were in my care...
1- no
2- 3 year old no - 9 year old probably though it would depend.
3 - certainly not
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: sureyouwill on May 18, 2007, 10:16:28 PM
I feel for the parents.........who on here with kids hasn't done one of the following

gone to the shop to buy the paper/milk and left kids in car

bought petrol and left kids in car

gone for a meal with baby monitor by side while kids slept upstairs(in hotel/restaurant)

I have done all of the above .........so I must be negligent also. ::)

No
As Sammy Yes and car was locked and I could see it.
No

But excuse me asking wtf has that got to do with going on holiday leaving 2 one year olds and a 3 year old totally unattended whilst you went out for the night dining and drinking?

Hope you didn't hurt yourself when you got down off the cross. Al baby sitters in Armagh area better have police clearance if they are to get a job with you. :o

Least they would be with baby sitters - that is the whole point - I would not go out for the night and leave my children unattended - any part of that you cannot understand?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Bacon on May 18, 2007, 10:28:27 PM
We never have and never would leave our 2 on their own in a hotel in a forgien country. Children always wake up and go looking for mummy or Daddy. You just don't do it!! When you have children you have to accept that you are responsible for them 100% of the time. That includes holidays. WE only ever leaft ours with their grandparents & even then it was only for a couple of hours. The social life was gone for 10 years but thats the price you pay for having children.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Syd on May 18, 2007, 10:35:37 PM
I am the ultimate cynic but i would not be surprised if the parents of Maddie become minor celebrities from this episode and benefit financially. Its just the way the f**king English media/TV seem to work, there will probably be a pour your heart out story to Mirror/Sun then an appearance on Richard & Judy (is it still on?). The whole thing is getting out of hand, i hope to God they find her safe and well but the whole thing has taken on a life of itself.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on May 19, 2007, 08:03:41 AM
I feel for the parents.........who on here with kids hasn't done one of the following

gone to the shop to buy the paper/milk and left kids in car

bought petrol and left kids in car

gone for a meal with baby monitor by side while kids slept upstairs(in hotel/restaurant)

I have done all of the above .........so I must be negligent also. ::)

No
As Sammy Yes and car was locked and I could see it.
No

But excuse me asking wtf has that got to do with going on holiday leaving 2 one year olds and a 3 year old totally unattended whilst you went out for the night dining and drinking?

Hope you didn't hurt yourself when you got down off the cross. Al baby sitters in Armagh area better have police clearance if they are to get a job with you. :o

Least they would be with baby sitters - that is the whole point - I would not go out for the night and leave my children unattended - any part of that you cannot understand?

I'll put your name forward for "Buckfast" parent of the year! :D
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: the Deel Rover on May 19, 2007, 09:06:50 AM
Hedley i don't know why your having a go at sureyouwil, you seem to be saying that he is been overprotective however i agree fully with him.You just can't take chances with your children not in this day and age.   
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Hedley Lamarr on May 19, 2007, 03:15:38 PM
Hedley i don't know why your having a go at sureyouwil, you seem to be saying that he is been overprotective however i agree fully with him.You just can't take chances with your children not in this day and age.   


It's the sanctimonious drivel that gets me. The McCanns were on holiday and did what lots of parents do when they have young children with them, and I have done also........get the children to bed and then take some time to themselves in what should have been a safe situation.
I would not condemn them......I feel for them.

 
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: the Deel Rover on May 19, 2007, 03:31:45 PM
Hedley i don't know why your having a go at sureyouwil, you seem to be saying that he is been overprotective however i agree fully with him.You just can't take chances with your children not in this day and age.   


It's the sanctimonious drivel that gets me. The McCanns were on holiday and did what lots of parents do when they have young children with them, and I have done also........get the children to bed and then take some time to themselves in what should have been a safe situation.
I would not condemn them......I feel for them.

 

As i said in a earlier quote all that matters at this moment is maddie and the hope that she might be found alive, i also feel for the parents god knows how they feel at the moment, but all i'm saying is that i would not put my children in that situation because if something ever happened them i would not be able to forgive myself.     
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on May 19, 2007, 03:48:02 PM
Hedley i don't know why your having a go at sureyouwil, you seem to be saying that he is been overprotective however i agree fully with him.You just can't take chances with your children not in this day and age.   


It's the sanctimonious drivel that gets me. The McCanns were on holiday and did what lots of parents do when they have young children with them, and I have done also........get the children to bed and then take some time to themselves in what should have been a safe situation.
I would not condemn them......I feel for them.

You've left your children at in bed and went out to a bar/restaurant????
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: SammyG on May 19, 2007, 06:26:21 PM
Hedley i don't know why your having a go at sureyouwil, you seem to be saying that he is been overprotective however i agree fully with him.You just can't take chances with your children not in this day and age.   


It's the sanctimonious drivel that gets me. The McCanns were on holiday and did what lots of parents do when they have young children with them, and I have done also........get the children to bed and then take some time to themselves in what should have been a safe situation.
I would not condemn them......I feel for them.

 

So people who think you should look after your kids, are spouting sanctimonious drivel.   ??? ??? Thank fcuk you seem to be in a minority.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: hardstation on May 21, 2007, 02:44:59 AM
Quote
and now he is going home....to do what, go to work?
Eh, no. He's doing something with a certain website that are trying to find his daughter and will return to his wife in the Al Garve within 24 hours (according to BBC news 24).

Quote
and i think we'l not see this little girl again.
I hope that we're totally wrong but I have been thinking this for at least a week.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: balladmaker on May 21, 2007, 01:51:02 PM
There has to be some sort of closure, but that is not guaranteed.  Imagine spending the rest of your life wondering where your daughter is, is she still alive, what is she going through, each birthday not knowing where she is.  It doesn't bare thinking about!

Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: High Catch on May 22, 2007, 11:43:12 AM
Things have gone very quiet on the news regarding this wee girl.  Really not looking good.  The search badly needs some kind of breakthrough.  Even if its something really unsubstantial, there is a huge need for something to raise peoples hopes again.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: full back on May 22, 2007, 11:51:58 AM
On the topic of closure for the parents, on the news yesterday it was interviewing the mother of that young child that was lost 16 years ago, Ben,I think on Kos.
Jaysus it must be terrible for that woman. The cameras followed her back to the island & it was showing how the islanders say she was a bad mother etc & how she is suspicious of everyone on the island.
Just hope the parents of Maddie dont go through that suffering
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: High Catch on May 22, 2007, 11:54:31 AM
Was that boy ever found? or what is he general opinion on what happened to him?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: full back on May 22, 2007, 11:58:47 AM
Never been found
One train of thought is that he will taken by gypsies & brought up as one of their own
His mother had a computer generated image of how he might look & was trying to get it in the local papers.
She was saying that she still believes she will see him again one day
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Fluffy Che on May 22, 2007, 12:02:13 PM
That kid was never found...the Greeks trid to say that his uncle had an accident on his scooter with him on the back and the child died..so he buried him!!!  Alien abduction holds more water.
Cos he was blond and blue-eyed he was regarded as a prize by his kidnappers...dont let your guard down just cos your on holiday :-\
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: High Catch on May 22, 2007, 12:35:07 PM
Shocking stuff indeed. Lets hope the parents get some kind of closure this time.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: The Real Laoislad on May 22, 2007, 04:44:07 PM
Was on the phone to the Ma last night and she told me this story that happened a few weeks ago
A husband and wife from Laois went up to Liffey Valley with their two kids to buy stuff for a communion
While in one of the shops the mother lost sight of the five year old,After a search the little one was no where to be found,so they contacted security.
After a hour there was still no sign of the kid,when someone radioed the security to say a woman had contacted them to report something suspicious
This woman was after seeing a Romanian woman in the toilets with a very distressed child,she was cutting the childs hair and was putting boys clothes on her,the child was screaming your not my mammy at the woman which caught the attention of the other woman.
Turns out it was the missing child,Would that child have ever been found if the Romanian woman had got her out of the shopping centre
Certainly makes you think about what could happen and how carefull you have too be
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: rosnarun on May 22, 2007, 04:47:58 PM
well spotted that she was a romainan woman . probably a gypsy too.
was this reported to the gaurds media ect . under the current atmos it would have made a big stink!
urban legend if i ever heard one
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: the Deel Rover on May 22, 2007, 05:01:48 PM
yes the same story was going around Ballina this time last year
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: The Real Laoislad on May 22, 2007, 05:05:47 PM
well spotted that she was a romainan woman . probably a gypsy too.
was this reported to the gaurds media ect . under the current atmos it would have made a big stink!
urban legend if i ever heard one


It is a true story lads i ain't making it up my Ma works with this woman,It was found out after that she was Romanian.Its too sensitive a subject for me to be telling urban legends
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: The Real Laoislad on May 22, 2007, 05:11:25 PM
     
Media coverage of missing Madeleine prompts doubts

By Phil Hazlewood AFP - Tuesday, May 22 09:19 amLONDON (AFP) - Nearly three weeks after Madeleine McCann's disappearance from a Portuguese holiday apartment, the media is starting to question its blanket coverage of the hunt for the four-year-old.

Some analysts have even compared the tidal wave of media attention given to the story -- and the accompanying outpourings of public emotion -- to that after the death of Princess Diana in 1997.

Television channels dispatched their star presenters to Praia da Luz in the Algarve, while newspapers splashed the story on their front pages day after day, despite a relative lack of new information.

The Guardian's Simon Jenkins was among the first to break ranks last Friday, calling the coverage "absurdly over the top ... prurient and tedious beyond belief," and questioning the ethics of airing a family's grief at peak time.

The publicly-run BBC has had to defend itself from claims it has succumbed to tabloid values as speculation replaced concrete facts, in part due to Portuguese legal restrictions on police speaking about ongoing inquiries.

But Mary Riddell, from The Guardian's sister paper The Observer, wrote that far from being prurient intrusion, Madeleine's parents, Gerry and Kate, were driving the publicity in the hope it leads to their daughter's safe return.

"Good luck to them," she wrote.

Yet as the story finally slips down news bulletin running orders and off the front pages back home, there is still concern about the impact the coverage has had -- and the precedent it has set.

The National Missing Person's Helpline said this week that more than 800 children and young people have gone missing since Madeleine disappeared from Praia da Luz on the Algarve.

There are also some 210,000 incidents of people reported missing each year, two-thirds of them young people under 18, according to British interior ministry estimates. But few, if any, receive as much publicity.

Paul Horrocks, editor of the Manchester Evening News (MEN) and president of British press guild the Society of Editors, disagreed the publicity was disproportionate.

"Just because one case didn't get it, why should we criticise what this case is getting?" he added.

"This case is getting the coverage that it needs. If it is being fuelled by the parents, by the public, by the editors and broadcasters feeling that they've got a duty to keep this going, then so be it."

Most people could relate to the horror of having their child abducted on a family holiday but the press interest is down to that and the unusual fact of a well-organised and orchestrated media campaign, he told AFP.

Decisions about what merits media attention and what does not in such cases are hard to objectify, with editors guided by what they think the public interest to be -- and that interest was massive, he added.

"I don't see why we should start having to become very introspective and critical, sort of analysing why when at the end of the day what everybody is hoping for here is that this little girl will be found safe and well," he said.

Others point to the fact that, after starting as a mainly British media story, reporters and camera crews from all over the world have also descended on the tiny Portuguese village at the centre of the hunt.

Frank Furedi, a sociologist from the University of Kent, told AFP there is a growing realisation here that much of the reaction to Madeleine's disappearance, including the coverage, had been in "bad taste."

Politicians and England's cricketers have worn yellow ribbons -- the symbol of the missing -- in support of the family while appeals have been made by high-profile footballers and at the FA Cup and UEFA Cup finals.

Government ministers, including Britain's prime minister designate Gordon Brown, have met members of the McCann family. Rewards have been offered in excess of 2.5 million pounds.

Millions of "hits" have been registered on the official www.findmadeleine.com website, moments of silence have been held for the little girl and money pours in to a search fund.

Some blame the new era of 24-hour rolling news, with its unrelenting demand for watchable stories.

Kevin Bakhurst, controller of BBC News 24, defended the corporation's extensive coverage.

"We have been particularly careful to avoid entering into a round of speculation and rumour, though this has surfaced in some other media," he wrote in a blog responding to criticism.

"And we have tried to satisfy the genuine interest among a huge portion of our audience and strike the right tone."

Furedi, who has written about the increasing paranoia of parents because of critical experts and media scare stories about predatory paedophiles, said the public reaction was like that after the death of Princess Diana in 1997.

"That was bad enough but in this case it's one child acquiring this visibility. It's spread like wildlife. It's a much more mawkish, much more pornographic, like reality television turned inside out," he said.

"I think it says we are very much ill at ease with ourselves and we need these symbols to give meaning to our life, to say we are good people and the reason why we're good people is because we wear these ribbons..."
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: SammyG on May 22, 2007, 05:23:18 PM
well spotted that she was a romainan woman . probably a gypsy too.
was this reported to the gaurds media ect . under the current atmos it would have made a big stink!
urban legend if i ever heard one


It is a true story lads i ain't making it up my Ma works with this woman,It was found out after that she was Romanian.Its too sensitive a subject for me to be telling urban legends

It is a total urban myth, it's been doing the rounds for years with gypsy/arab/black/romanian/whoever was that weeks issue being inserted as the nationality.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: SuperSub on May 22, 2007, 05:27:00 PM
It is amazing the amount of kids that are let run free in places like shopping centres,Parents don't seem to realise the chances they are taking,Even going to work in the mornings i see very small kids walking to school on their own or with a slightly older sibling.I know you can't wrap them in cotton wool but some things just aren't acceptable in my opinion
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: The Real Laoislad on May 22, 2007, 05:28:08 PM
Sure believe what ye want you all seem to be experts on the matter
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: SammyG on May 22, 2007, 09:01:43 PM
Sure believe what ye want you all seem to be experts on the matter

Nothing to do with being an expert, the story has been about for years, it's usually told about kids disappearing at Disney.

A quick google found this story from April 2000

Quote
These urban myths need good dose of skepticism
By KATHERINE SNOW SMITH

© St. Petersburg Times, published April 9, 2000


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I wrote a column a few weeks ago about the nightmare of losing your children, even briefly, at the airport, circus or any other crowded public place. The column prompted four people to tell me about what happens at Disney World when a child is separated from his or her parents.

From my editor to a doctor friend to my sitter, the story varied only slightly: The Disney people whisk the parents into a room filled with television screens displaying every inch of the park. They anxiously urge parents to "Look at the eyes, look at the eyes." (In one version it's "Look at the shoes.")

The reason is simple. After the child snatchers have the kid, they quickly duck into a bathroom or behind a ride to change the child's clothes, then cut, shave or dye the hair. If you're looking for your little girl with red pigtails and a green Pooh dress, she could walk right past you with short black hair and blue gingham shorts and shirt.

"It happened about 10 years ago to a woman in my Bible study," my sitter told me. "Her little girl had long, black, curly hair and they cut it all off. They found her in line for Space Mountain."

I asked why a kidnapper would take the time to ride Space Mountain instead of hustling the child out of the park. She said she was told Disney immediately closes all exits from the park when a child is missing so the kidnappers have to wait it out until they can find an escape route.

I told my sitter about the others who mentioned this story to me, and that it sounds like one of those urban myths. She conferred with her sister about it and later told me they think this woman could have made the whole thing up. After all, she dropped in and out of the Bible study and was the type who might be capable of turning an urban myth into a personal nightmare.

Still, plenty of other people were telling me this story and they aren't the only ones who know of it. Turns out a web site dedicated to urban myths, http://www.snopes.com, has a whole section on myths about Disney. This one of the hair-dyeing, head-shaving child snatchers is one of the most frequently told. And these days they are spreading farther and faster with the fuel of the Internet.

The same scenario is often said to take place in Wal-Mart as well. The web site included a scary tale by a mother who said her child was stolen at a Sam's Club. The little girl was found within five minutes in a bathroom stall, her head half shaved. The story is one of many circulating throughout the Internet. It's titled "Child Alert," and begins with the mother's urgent message: "Please take the time to forward this to any friend who has children."

The Disney story, according to the urban myths web site, often includes an attack on the mighty powerful Mouse himself. Some storytellers say Disney wants to quell the story so it offers parents a lifetime of free admission to keep quiet about what happened to their child. While a day at the park does cost a small fortune, I still can't see parents trading silence about a missing child for endless free rides on Space Mountain.

Disney's response to all this: False. Bunk. Untrue. Never happened. No way. Wrong.

"No child has ever been abducted from Walt Disney World resort," Rene Callahan, a Disney spokeswoman, told me.

"It is definitely an urban legend," she said of the kidnapping stories. "It has been out there for a while and seems to have gotten around to many people in the country. But it is in fact legend."

I wholeheartedly believe her. There are no past news stories about this happening. And if it did happen as much as people hear it happening somebody would call the cops or tell a newspaper or TV station.

Callahan, however, would not tell me if the gates are ever shut to seal off the park during operating hours. "We don't give out details of security measures. To do so would compromise security," she told me.

Why and how this story spread wide and far as fact is unknown. The urban myth web site stated that many people distrust and dislike large corporations, such as Disney or Wal-Mart, and are happy to tarnish their good-guy image.

My sitter didn't question why these myth-tellers pick on Disney but instead why they lay claim to such a horrible ordeal. "Day-to-day life is hard enough," she said. "Why would you want to have something like this, too?"

To make you more aware of what's fact and what's fiction, here are some other "parental nightmares" listed on the urban myth web site that are widespread and untrue:

A babysitter on drugs mistakes the infant for a turkey and cooks it in the oven.

School children are given cartoon character tattoos laced with LSD.

Drug smugglers smuggle cocaine into the country in the hollowed-out bodies of dead babies.

A Red Cross blood drive found that 20 percent of high school donors are HIV positive.

Venomous snakes live in the outside ball pits at fast-food restaurants.

And then there's the one I fell for in an instant. A couple of years ago a neighbor showed me a notice her husband's co-worker pulled off the Internet. It stated that Gerber had lost a class-action lawsuit because it claimed false ingredients in its baby foods. As part of the company's settlement it had to give a $500 savings bond to any child between four months and two years old. All parents had to do was mail a copy of the birth certificate to Gerber.

Our whole street, along with myself, was rushing around to get birth certificate's copied when another neighbor broke the news that she had called Gerber and learned the whole thing was a hoax. Reality bites!


Source http://www.sptimes.com/News/040900/SouthPinellas/These_urban_myths_nee.shtml (http://www.sptimes.com/News/040900/SouthPinellas/These_urban_myths_nee.shtml)
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: The Real Laoislad on May 22, 2007, 09:13:15 PM
So that means it can't be true ???.As i said your the expert and seem too think because you heard a similar story before it couldn't happen again
Sure maybe my mother was lying and so was her work partner ::)
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: hardstation on May 22, 2007, 09:14:48 PM
It does make it look pretty much unconvincing though.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: The Real Laoislad on May 22, 2007, 09:17:55 PM
I told a story that did happen and im not going to keep defending myself so as i have said already believe what ye will i don't really care.
Now will posters stop turning this thread about Maddie McCann into a your lying.. no your lying thread there are more important topics about this case to discuss
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: SammyG on May 22, 2007, 09:26:02 PM
I told a story that did happen and im not going to keep defending myself so as i have said already believe what ye will i don't really care.

If it was true why was it never reported anywhere?
Now will posters stop turning this thread about Maddie McCann into a your lying.. no your lying thread there are more important topics about this case to discuss

Agreed, you were the one who took the thread off topic.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: hardstation on May 22, 2007, 09:26:31 PM
The story about that poor young girl is fizzeling out now. With nothing happening in the last few days, it has changed from being the main topic of conversation with almost everyone you meet to half way through your chats the odd "oh aye, still no sign of her yet?" "no" and you continue talking about something else. The signs are bad I believe.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: balladmaker on May 23, 2007, 12:15:44 AM
Not that I would be a great believer, but maybe it's time the police gave the psychic's a shout......I'd try anything at this stage.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: SuperSub on May 23, 2007, 09:29:37 AM

Agreed, you were the one who took the thread off topic.

Eh i think you did.Always have to have the last word do ya?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: The Real Laoislad on May 23, 2007, 09:37:40 AM
Just leave it Supersub,I know im telling the truth i don't care what anyone else thinks
Now back to the real topic
Her parents are to make a trip to Fatima to pray for her

More from Sky News on Channel 501
      Site  Web  Search:   Advanced Search Browse Archive Praying For A Miracle At Holy Site
Updated: 07:14, Wednesday May 23, 2007

The parents of missing Madeleine McCann are to make a pilgrimage to the holiest site in Portugal to pray for a miracle: the safe return of their daughter.
 
At a church service last weekThey will visit the town of Fatima, home to a shrine that is visited by millions of Catholic pilgrims every year.

The trip may well prove to be the first step in an expected European tour aimed at spreading news of Madeleine's abduction across the continent.

And it will be the first time since Madeleine's mother Kate McCann has left Praia da Luz since her daughter was snatched from the resort on May 3.

Friends said Mrs McCann had considered making the four-hour trip even before Madeleine was abducted and has been set on making the journey ever since.

The Sanctuary of Fatima was built to commemorate the events of 1917 when three peasant children claimed to have seen the Virgin Mary.

 
Prayers for Madeleine at FatimaJust 10 days ago, on the weekend of Madeleine's birthday, around 300,000 pilgrims flocked to Fatima to mark the 90th anniversary of one of the visions.

Many were holding up pictures of Madeleine and praying for her safe return.

Kate and Gerry McCann have said they will do what it takes to keep their daughter's image in the media spotlight, in the hope she will be returned.

"We will travel wherever is necessary to ensure people across Europe recognise Madeleine's picture and encourage them to come forward with information," Mr McCann said.

"We are going to monitor the media exposure throughout Europe and then we will decide along with our campaign manager and press team where we need to go to make maximum impact."

Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: sureyouwill on May 23, 2007, 10:23:28 AM

Agreed, you were the one who took the thread off topic.

Eh i think you did.Always have to have the last word do ya?

So among your many talents one of them is you can't read!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: SuperSub on May 23, 2007, 10:45:18 AM
Keep to the thread now sureyouwill don't be going off topic
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Orior on May 24, 2007, 05:48:52 PM
Anyone else get the Chris Carberry and Barry Walsh emails? I got 21 of them.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on May 24, 2007, 06:03:33 PM
Anyone else get the Chris Carberry and Barry Walsh emails? I got 21 of them.

What are they Orior? Diddnt gte any thing at all
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Orior on May 24, 2007, 08:12:10 PM
******************************************************************************
From:  "Chris Carberry" 
Date:  2007/05/24 Thu PM 03:39:22 BST

To:  about 100 email addresses!

Subject:  FW: Please Read!!!!!!!!! Disparition Madeleine


Please read this message and pass it on!!!!!!!!!

As you are aware my niece, Madeleine, is still missing and I am asking
everyone I know to send this as a chain letter i.e. you send it to everyone
 you know and ask them to do the same, as the story is only being covered
 in
Britain, Eire and Portugal. We don't believe that she is in Portugal
anymore and need to get her picture and the story across Europe as quickly
as possible. Suggestions are welcome.


Phil McCann

******************************************************************************

and then the reply from Barry Walsh:

******************************************************************************

No idea wha your talking about.

bw

BARRY WALSH


******************************************************************************



Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Syd on May 25, 2007, 07:13:52 PM
I see the parents were interviewed on Sky News earlier, out of curiosity would they expect to get paid for this interview?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Uladh on May 26, 2007, 10:29:44 AM

The time has come to leave this thread alone until there are actual developments in the case. The news networks need to adopt the same policy.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: corn02 on May 26, 2007, 11:32:55 AM
The news networks have seem to have done this already. Purely because there is no scandal to report.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on June 28, 2007, 06:55:07 PM
  From the BBC
 
Madeleine has been missing since 3 May
An Italian man has been arrested in Spain over the kidnapping of Madeleine McCann, according to reports.
Spain's El Pais says the man was arrested in Algeciras, southern Spain - a few hours drive from the Portuguese resort where Madeleine disappeared.

A spokesperson for the Spanish National Police says that, at this stage, they cannot confirm the information.

Madeleine, was taken from her apartment as she slept in the Algarve village of Praia da Luz on 3 May.


First news on this in ages

 
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: The Real Laoislad on August 03, 2007, 05:17:56 PM
Police Probe New Madeleine Sighting
Sky News

Police in Belgium are investigating a possible sighting of Madeleine McCann and have released an identikit drawing of a man she may have been seen with.
 
Man was seen in restaurant with girl looking like MadeleineA woman told detectives she saw an English-speaking woman with a Dutch man and young girl at a restaurant in the Belgian town of Tongeren, near Maastricht.

The witness, a children's therapist, telephoned police but when she returned to her table the three had disappeared.

A Tongeren police spokesman said they were treating the sighting "very seriously".

They have taken a soft drink bottle the girl had been drinking from for analysis.

Results of the tests are expected next week, when scientists will see if there is enough DNA to create a "profile" before going on to see if there is a match to Madeleine.

A spokesman said: "The woman told us the little girl bore a striking resemblance to Madeleine McCann and was behaving nervously.

"She said she got up to call us as soon as she saw the girl, but when she returned to her table all three of them got into a car and left.

"She was 100% sure it was Madeleine and is a trusted witness. She works with children and noticed something unusual, that is why we are taking it seriously."

It is the second reported sighting of Madeleine in Belgium since the four-year-old was snatched from her hotel room in the Portuguese resort of Praia da Luz three months ago.

A Belgian couple told police they saw the youngster outside the Cathedral in Liege on June 1.

Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on August 03, 2007, 05:21:33 PM
hope its a good lead and not another pie in the sky one, i suppose nothing can be really done until the DNA tests are carried out
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: inisceithleann on August 03, 2007, 10:34:41 PM
I can't understand why anyone who would be genuine in sighting the wee girl would not to be more definite in their approach to informing the authorities.  In this case surely the waitress could have called the police before the child left the restaurant or done something more to ensure she was recovered?  Otherwise it looks like another publicity stunt by someone wanting to be noticed.

Agreed the media circus in belgium now will only put the abductors on alert, if in fact it was maddie at the restaurant. could the police not have waited and said nothing, searched the town and tried to catch them unaware?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: corn02 on August 04, 2007, 11:35:16 AM
I can see why she did not approach, if you had a child that looked like Maddie and a stranger came up and tried to grab her I don't think your reaction would be the best. But maybe more of an effort should of been made.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: balladmaker on August 04, 2007, 01:27:01 PM
Just imagine yourself sitting in a restaurant, and you think Madeline McCann is in the same restaurant at a table a few yards from you.  Would it not be worth the risk to approach the table and make a bit of an effort?  So what if you caused commotion, would it not be worth it to make sure it was the missing girl, one way or the other. 

Also, why would they have her in a public place like a restaurant?  I suppose I am thinking logically, but whoever does have her are more than likely not logical thinking people!

It must be hell for the McCann's, hearing about each of these sighting stories.  They can't all be true....Malta, Morroco, Portugal, Spain, Holland, Belgium etc etc.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on August 04, 2007, 03:37:45 PM
agree with a few others here,I think there should have been a low key approach to this one, If it was her i bet she is long gone, but have a media blackout and investigate it so as not to alert the suspects then you stand a greater chance of them staying around. Surely the person/people who have taken her would somehow change her appearance, dye her hair, cut it something like that.

Just imagine yourself sitting in a restaurant, and you think Madeline McCann is in the same restaurant at a table a few yards from you.  Would it not be worth the risk to approach the table and make a bit of an effort?  So what if you caused commotion, would it not be worth it to make sure it was the missing girl, one way or the other. 

would it be worth it? if it was me sitting at the table and someone approached my daughter I would stab the person and take the consequences, terrible position to be in
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: balladmaker on August 04, 2007, 07:27:29 PM
Quote
would it be worth it? if it was me sitting at the table and someone approached my daughter I would stab the person and take the consequences, terrible position to be in

When I said approach them, I meant walk up to the table and ask the question to see what reaction you get.  If they run for the door, then you have a fair idea what is going on.  I didn't mean go up, grab the girl and do a runner to the local police with her.

I agree, this should never have been made public, but investigated behind the scenes.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on August 08, 2007, 12:26:21 PM
So another lead disappears,

No Madeleine match after DNA test 
 
Madeleine, four, has been missing since 3 May
DNA test results from a restaurant in Tongeren, Belgium, have failed to provide a match with missing four-year-old Madeleine McCann.
The DNA matched that of a man's, prosecutors in Tongeren said.

In a statement prosecutors added that the result "doesn't mean that the presence of Maddie is excluded".

Meanwhile, suspected traces of blood from the Algarve apartment where Madeleine was last seen are being tested in Birmingham by UK scientists.

It is believed the evidence was found during a search involving at least one sniffer dog from Britain.

Madeleine's parents say they still have faith she will be found alive.

Database search

The official DNA test results were taken on a strawberry flavoured milk drink bottle and a straw.

  We will work with them and continue to work with them for the breakthrough that we pray for every single day

Gerry McCann

Police were contacted after a girl suspected of being Madeleine was spotted at a roadside cafe with a Dutch-speaking man aged around 40 and an English-speaking woman of around 25.

Prosecutors added that "the man accompanying her may have drunk from the bottle" and that it was strange the couple involved had not come forward to be excluded from the police inquiry.

A prosecution official said although the DNA had not produced any matches in databases, the investigation remained open.

"We are seeing what tip-offs come in, although to date we have not had anything that has led to concrete results."

Some Portuguese newspapers reported on Tuesday that detectives now suspect Madeleine died in the holiday flat in Praia da Luz on 3 May - the night she disappeared.

Detectives in Portugal are refusing to comment officially on those reports.

A police spokesman told BBC News there were "some indications" she had not been alive when she was taken, but the possibility had not been discounted.

He said other people could be interviewed before the end of the week.

If tests in Birmingham confirm the find of traces of blood, police will look for a DNA match with Madeleine.
 
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ludermor on August 10, 2007, 11:43:46 AM
I see the tide has turned against the parents big time.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Uladh on August 10, 2007, 12:31:25 PM
In what way?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: full back on August 16, 2007, 01:48:50 PM
I see in one of the papers today, it says that the cops in Portugal know that Maddie was killed in the apartment & who is responsible. The say they will swoop on the new suspects within days.
Maybe bullsh1t, to show they are still doing something about the case.

It also is questioning if the parents gave the twins sedatives to make them sleep, because they didnt wake up when she was taken or when all the commotion was going on after it.

Holy fcuk, I know the parents should never have left the children alone, but to question if they gave the children sedatives so they wouldnt waken is shocking.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Hurler on the Bitch on August 16, 2007, 04:12:37 PM
I think that this whole thing is going to unravel very soon and it will be a hideous story.. whatever comes to pass.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: hardstation on August 16, 2007, 04:13:21 PM
I think that this whole thing is going to unravel very soon and it will be a hideous story.. whatever comes to pass.
I think you're right.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Balboa on August 16, 2007, 04:14:06 PM
I see in one of the papers today, it says that the cops in Portugal know that Maddie was killed in the apartment & who is responsible. The say they will swoop on the new suspects within days.
Maybe bullsh1t, to show they are still doing something about the case.

It also is questioning if the parents gave the twins sedatives to make them sleep, because they didnt wake up when she was taken or when all the commotion was going on after it.

Holy fcuk, I know the parents should never have left the children alone, but to question if they gave the children sedatives so they wouldnt waken is shocking.

Maybe they have some evidence to support this theory, its a bold statement to make if they cant substantiate it.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on August 16, 2007, 07:54:49 PM
Is the blood Maddies?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: hardstation on August 16, 2007, 08:12:55 PM
Still waiting.....
Title: No
Post by: passedit on August 16, 2007, 08:15:10 PM
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2267836.ece (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2267836.ece)

DNA test boosts parents' hope that Madeleine is still alive

Paolo Reis in Praia da Luz and David Brown

Traces of blood discovered in the bedroom where Madeleine McCann was sleeping on the night that she disappeared do not come from the missing girl, The Times has learnt.

The conclusion that the blood came from a man follows two weeks of reports that the traces proved that Madeleine had been killed in the Algarve holiday apartment.

The finding will give fresh hope to Kate and Gerry McCann, who have said that they continue to believe that their daughter will still be found alive 105 days after she was taken from her bed.

The minute spots of blood, which were discovered on a bedroom wall by British sniffer dogs, had been sent for testing at the headquarters of the Forensic Science Service in Birmingham.
The power of mums

Mumsnet’s role in the Madeleine McCann advert affair has shown the muscle of parenting forums
Background

    * Lay off the McCanns

    * Leaving children alone

    * Madeleine: a very modern melodrama

Multimedia

    * Pictures: searching for Madeleine

    * Video: McCann family start holiday

Related Links

    * Madeleine detectives fear the worst

    * Lies, guesses and speculation

The four pages of technical results conclude that the blood did not come from Madeleine.

The analysis shows that the blood probably comes from a white man from the “northeast European subgroup”. However, this conclusion is only 72 per cent accurate owing to the poor condition of the sample because of its age and also that the bedroom wall had been cleaned with a detergent. The Forensic Science Service is carrying out further tests on the samples.

Detectives had already suspected that the blood came from a man who had injured himself while staying at the two-bedroom apartment after Madeleine disappeared. This explains why the blood was not discovered when Portuguese police examined the apartment in the first weeks of the investigation. The ground-floor apartment in the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz was cordoned off by police for five weeks after Madeleine’s disappearance before being handed back to its British owners.

Mrs McCann contemplated for the first time yesterday returning to Britain to live without Madeleine: “We know we will be going back and I guess one day we will wake up and it will be right. We never thought that we would go before she came back. Now we just don’t know. We have the twins to consider. “I can’t imagine how we came out as a family of five and going back as a four.”

The Times reported yesterday that Portuguese police have said for the first time that the focus of the inquiry is that Madeleine is now dead. Inspector Olegário Sousa, of the PolÍcia Judiciária (PJ), said: “The possibility of Madeleine’s death is the one that we are paying more attention. However, none of the other possibilities is closed.”

Mr Sousa confirmed that one of the dogs had found a scent indicating that a corpse had been in the apartment.


Kate and Gerry McCann, both 39, from Rothley, Leicestershire, are likely to face fresh questioning by police next week. The seven British adults with them at the Ocean Club are also likely to be requestioned.

The couple and their friends were dining at a tapas restaurant at the resort complex on May 3 while Madeleine was asleep in the apartment with her two-year-old twin brothers and sister, Sean and Amelie.

Mr Sousa said this week that the McCanns are regarded as witnesses and are not considered suspects. But he refused to rule out the possibility that their friends may have been involved.

Portuguese police are believed to have found some new evidence in the case about two weeks ago which led to officers saying that they now considered it possible that Madeleine, who disappeared shortly before her fourth birthday, was now dead. However, reports that they are hunting a mystery British man who had stayed in Praia da Luz at the same time as the McCanns have been dismissed. James Gorrod, 34, a solicitor from Exeter, said that detectives had cleared him and his wife of any link to her disappearance. They had raised suspicion because they were a couple who were on holiday with the McCanns and had hired a car with a child seat. However, it transpired that they were travelling with their two-year-old son.

Detectives in Portugal are expected to hold the first press conference on the investigation tomorrow for more than a month. A judge is expected to decide this month that the only official suspect in the case, Robert Murat, 33, should be cleared.
Title: Times Article
Post by: passedit on August 16, 2007, 08:23:04 PM
Read the above article on the train this am. How can a dog pick up such a scent? Apparently the corpse would need to have been there for at least two hours. Not prejudging anything, just wondering.

ps Drici, are you psychic? tell us whodunnit.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: hardstation on August 16, 2007, 08:28:56 PM
Also how can they tell this?
The dog hardly went in had a sniff, came out and said, "there was a corpse in there".
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on August 16, 2007, 08:37:05 PM
maybe the dog is trained to react only to the scent of a corpse and barked?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: passedit on August 16, 2007, 09:06:42 PM
http://dogs.about.com/cs/searchandrescue/a/cadaver_dogs.htm (http://dogs.about.com/cs/searchandrescue/a/cadaver_dogs.htm)

http://www.csst.org/residual_scent.html (http://www.csst.org/residual_scent.html)



    RESIDUAL SCENT IN BUILDINGS

    One of the questions we are commonly asked as forensic canine handlers is "How long will scent last in any given situation?" This is a very complicated question, but we want to begin to unravel the secrets. We know some of the elements that will affect residual scent are heat/sun, wind, humidity and rain.

    Our first project was conducted in a closed, unused building. Items were placed in different rooms for 5 hours and then removed.

    What is Residual Scent?
    Residual is defined by Webster's dictionary as - leaving a residue remaining effective for some time.
    Within this paper we are using the term in conjunction with decomposing human scent. Residual scent searches are those conducted when no physical form is present. Residual scent is what is left when the decomposing item has been removed. It is something we cannot see and humans cannot necessarily smell.

    Introduction
    This project began by accident, so was not preplanned as a residual scent research paper. We make no claims to having ruled out all variables, but are using this project to learn what the variables are and how to more effectively set up our next residual scent project.

    Our goal in this paper is to look at residual scent in a closed, unused building and see if we can find out how long a trained cadaver / forensic evidence dog can locate the original scent location. All the dogs used in this project ranged from those with some basic training in the finding of cadaver scent to specialized trained dogs in forensic evidence / body recovery. We see this as just the beginning of ongoing residual scent undertakings.

    On November 9, 1996 several items were placed in different areas of a building. The building used was built in the 1930's and was used as classrooms up until 1995. It is part of a large developmental hospital that was built before 1900. Most of the furniture is now gone. There is still human clothing around, chairs, desks, shelves with things on them, wardrobes, curtains, and boxes of books and general effects. The facility has been closed down and most of the buildings are scheduled to be demolished.

        Room #11 was used as an activity or day room. It is a large open room. The scent sources were blood (3cc) left to dry on the floor and door in the room.
        Room #16 is a closet/storage room off room #11. The scent source was blood (approx. 1cc) on paper on the floor.
        Room #5 is a large storage room with closets and shelves. The scent source was a soil sample with dried fluids from a gunshot to the head suicide enclosed in a 50ml vented container. The upper window has been open the whole time in this room.
        Room #18 is a large living room. Scent sources were; hair mixed with cadaver scent in the fireplace flue, and a very small amount of blood inside a trash can.
        Room #9 is a tiled utility area across the hall from a kitchen area. Scent source was hair and blood in a 50ml container placed in the foot of standing ironing board, so the sample was 5 feet off the ground.

    Since the original set up date on November 9, 1996, we have returned to the building 4 times: January 8, 1997, April 2, 1997, July 23, 1997 and December 7, 1997. On our visit in April we found that they had removed most of the original furniture and some boxes of trash, so the building had little left in it. Two of the objects (the ironing board and a box of trash), that had held scent sources were now missing.

    Results
    Each dog participating in this project was able to find most or all of the locations where the decomposing scent articles had been. We saw dogs, which varied, from full alert and pinpointing to general interest in the room or area.

    What we have found so far is; residual scent will last 1 year in a building with minimum environmental influence, or human disturbance. Even after the objects where the scent source had been were removed, the dogs were able to locate the rooms, general area, or pinpoint where it had been.

    Each time we have worked the problem we have included teams that had not worked the area before. We now have had 16 teams work the residual scent problem. The dogs have ranged from veteran cadaver trained certified teams to 1 year old puppies (who have been training from 8 weeks of age on cadaver and residual scent).

    Observations
    We noticed that there was a big difference between teams that do mainly live person searching and teams that specialize in forensic evidence / body recovery searches. The general difference being, forensic evidence / body recovery dogs are searched slower, have been taught to do a fine search, check items for scent sources, and alert without seeing an object. Most live human search dogs are trained to keep looking until they find the person and then to alert. Younger and less experienced dogs had fewer problems and were willing to commit to an alert more readily than some of the mainly live human search dogs.

    Questions, Variables, Problems, Future Ideas
    One of the questions that we have wondered about after observing dogs who have worked the problem prior is; do the dogs remember where items were previously placed or where they alerted before and how long do they remember?

    Also, what effect does having an observer that is knowledgeable of all the locations have on the team? Can the handler and or dog read body language that gives them information as to where they should look or alert?

    Plans for our next visit include having first time teams work the building by themselves without an observer on deck. The handler will then report any alerts or interest to the observer by showing them on a diagram of the building. This way the handler will have to commit to what the dog has done without any input from the observer. The observer will not be able to influence the team while they are searching.

    No food reward will be allowed in the building.

    Our next residual scent projects will employ measurable scent items. Example: 3cc of blood mixed with 2oz of human hair, or a specific human bone. This way we can control and repeat the scent items more closely in different conditions.

    Room with the blood (3cc) is not a true residual scent problem, as we have defined it, because the blood has been left on the floor and door. But we now have data on how long dogs can locate dried blood.

    Our next step in studying residual scent is to set up problems in different environments. We want to compare our results with problems set up in open areas, areas with sun and shade and no building to protect the scent.

    Room #11 - dried blood - dogs able to show dried blood on door and floor

    Room #5 - soil with dried fluids - dog showing
    inside closet where source had been

    Room #18 - Hair with scent - all dogs indicated
    flue area of chimney where source had been

    Room #18 - area where trash can had been - dogs all indicated
    area and showed pile of curtains now on floor but had been
    hanging above trash can originally. Curtains are porous and
    holding scent.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: mylestheslasher on August 16, 2007, 09:27:50 PM
Lads, Cops will often release/leak this type of stuff to try and scare the culprit into making a move of some sort. We simply don't know what is going on behind the scenes but it does look like something is happening and hopefully the sorry story will come to an end soon.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Hurler on the Bitch on August 16, 2007, 10:57:01 PM
Look, thanks for the question. The thing that dare not speak its name?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: hardstation on August 16, 2007, 10:58:56 PM
Fcuk, I didn't read the question properly.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: The Real Laoislad on August 16, 2007, 11:00:03 PM
Who do the members of the board suspect in either the abduction or if she is dead the killing of this little girl?



The very first thing i posted on this matter was my suspicions of the parents,At the time i said that i felt awful for thinking it and hoped i was wrong and these are still both my feelings on the matter
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: hardstation on August 16, 2007, 11:08:37 PM
I was on holiday last week and it's a bit of a blur but did I read that yer woman gave an interview/statement saying that the guilt is setting in now?
In the same interview/statement she said that the only thing that is keeping her together is that she knows they didn't commit a crime.
Now what is that all about?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on August 16, 2007, 11:26:46 PM
i suspect that either or both parents were involved. there was something strange about the whole thing from the start. i expect it all to come out soon.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: spiritof91and94 on August 17, 2007, 08:30:15 AM
Lets hope this isnt true.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Hound on August 17, 2007, 09:34:05 AM

Blood found in the apartment two days ago has arrived in Britain for DNA analysis: a result can be expected inside 48 hours.

FIRST POSTED AUGUST 8, 2007

But since then, its been confirmed that it wasnt her blood...

I can't beleive the parents had anything to do with it. The only motive I can think of is that they killed her by accident when disciplining her too roughly - and then have done everything since then as a massive cover-up. I just find it too elaborate to be believable.

There was talk about ther twins been given a "sedative". Obviously no idea if thats true, but there are parents all over Ireland and Britain who often give their children Doze-all (sp?), a medicine type product that has been on the market for years to help children sleep. I'd never dream of using it myself but many many parents have done so.

The Portuguese police have a reputation for being absolutely useless, but lets hope they find the truth, whatever that is.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Smokin Joe on August 17, 2007, 10:59:46 AM
I didn't realise that the McCanns were on holiday with another half a dozen adults.  That makes it even worse that one of the 6 or 7 couldn't have taken it night about to mind the kids while the others ate.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: A Quinn Martin Production on August 17, 2007, 11:31:32 AM
While I find it difficult to believe that the parents were involved given what would be an extraordinary cover-up involving a huge number of people...one thing has always struck me as strange.  The reported sightings of a man carrying what appeared to be a child wrapped in a blanket from the McCann's apartment surfaced about three weeks into the case.  This would not be unusual except for the fact that they came from people who were at the tapas bar with the McCann's.  Why didn't they report this immediately it was discovered that Madeleine was missing ???
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: fearglasmor on August 17, 2007, 11:40:15 AM
It seems in cases like this the police in collusion with the media put out false stories in an effort to try and jog peoples senses or flush out any possible suspects.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: magpie seanie on August 17, 2007, 11:42:23 AM
None of this makes sense to me at all.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on August 17, 2007, 01:04:36 PM
None of this makes sense to me at all.

nor me really, just hope that it is brought to  a conclusion one way or the other. cant see how the parents and friends would be able to pull off such an elaborate charade for so long given the intense media coverage and minute dissection of the evidence by every budding PI out there.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: A Quinn Martin Production on August 17, 2007, 01:20:22 PM
This is from today's "London" Independent

Police: no breakthrough in search for Madeleine
By Ian Herbert
Published: 17 August 2007

The chaos engulfing the investigation into Madeleine McCann's disappearance worsened yesterday when the national director of policing in Portugal admitted he had "no idea" where the child might be and said the investigation was nowhere near a breakthrough.

The comments by Alipio Ribeiro, national director of the Policia Judiciaria (PJ), made a mockery of disclosures by Olegario Sousa, the PJ's spokesman in the Algarve, who has hinted a breakthrough might be near and again said this week a sniffer dog had detected the scent of a body in the hunt for Madeleine, with the implication that she might have died in the apartment where she was last seen alive.

Speaking after preliminary tests results showed that flecks of blood found at the McCanns' apartment were not from Madeleine, Mr Ribeiro said it was simply not possible to say whether she was dead or alive.

"There is a long way yet to go and it would be frivolous of me to say we are near the end," he told Spain's El Mundo newspaper. "The hypothesis (that she is dead) is perceptible for everyone. Although it's true that it's a strong hypothesis and there is always that possibility, we cannot say that she is dead."

Mr Ribeiro admitted the police still have no idea what the motive for the abduction was - three months after Madeleine went missing from the apartment in Praia da Luz. He said: "We have to be clear we are working to clear up a difficult situation, above all in relation to the motive. It could have been for money, for revenge, for hate. We don't know. I am optimistic because I believe we will end up understanding everything that happened. We have to recognise the expectation is low. It is not easy."

Mr Ribeiro said a blood sample found at the McCanns' apartment had been sent to the UK to see if there was a match with the DNA database of British criminals but it was impossible to check the DNA sample against British expatriates living in Praia da Luz. He said: "That is not possible. The UK is the most advanced country with regard to databases. It has a much more complete database. But we cannot imagine making a comparison with all the British [in Praia da Luz]."

The blood test shows the sample probably came from a man from the "north-east European sub-group". That conclusion is only 72 per cent accurate, however, due to the poor condition of the sample because of its age and cleaning of the bedroom. The Forensic Science Service in Birmingham is conducting further tests on the blood. A male guest is known to have injured himself while staying at the flat after Madeleine disappeared. That could explain why the blood was not found when Portuguese police searched the apartment after Madeleine's disappearance
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Smokin Joe on August 23, 2007, 09:01:29 AM
How do they come up with this possible conclusion but at the same time clear the parents?

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23409463-details/Detectives+'now+believe+Madeleine+died+by+accident'/article.do
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Uladh on August 23, 2007, 10:31:57 AM

As far as i can work out, the parents are in the clear because neither of them were out of sight of the gathering for long enough at any stage, and certainly not for long enough to have disposed of a body as successfully as it seems to have been. the logical question is how do we know maddie was in the apartment at all that evening but the police obviously are content that this was the case.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: nifan on August 23, 2007, 12:48:28 PM

As far as i can work out, the parents are in the clear because neither of them were out of sight of the gathering for long enough at any stage, and certainly not for long enough to have disposed of a body as successfully as it seems to have been. the logical question is how do we know maddie was in the apartment at all that evening but the police obviously are content that this was the case.

They have to have been some cold hearted killers to kill their daughter, put the other kids to bed, go out to a restauraunt and then pretend to discover her.
Not impossible i suppose, but doesnt seem likely
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: full back on August 23, 2007, 12:50:41 PM
If hopes of a breakthrough were pure speculation I would hope that the police would say so.
Going by what they are saying it has to be something very important, otherwise it is some pile of sh1t to be telling the parents.
The only other thing it can be is that they are hoping to make the person/s responsible get jittery & put them under pressure
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on August 23, 2007, 08:38:04 PM
Quote
Gerry McCann said he was a "million miles" from changing his belief that the four year old was abducted on the night she disappeared.

Is it just me that finds that very odd? 
Ok he may want to believe his daughter is still alive but that is not the response I would have expected.  Why does he want people to believe she was snatched?  The more cyncial of us might point to the money they've made and the trips they've been on and maybe the police are to close for comfort.

Are we meant to believe that someone broke in to rob the place (took nothing), killed the child by accident and THEN took the body? Sure that would make no sense.  You hear of robberies going wrong and people being killed, but I've never heard of a robber taking the body with them!
If the police do belive this happened and the child is already dead, why are they insisting the Mccanns wait around Portugal?  Maybe they want the parents to be in the country when the body is found, but if they know where the body is what reason would they have for not getting it? 
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ONeill on August 23, 2007, 08:52:18 PM
I simply refuse to believe the McCanns had any involvement in this. Surely they can't have hoodwinked almost every media outlet across the globe, as well as thousands of sporting organisations, sports and music stars, businesses and retail outlets. For that reason I cannot entertain that notion.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on August 23, 2007, 09:03:30 PM
Pretty similar to my views O'Neill, but what has gone on.

I think where POG has stated "are we meant to believe that someone broke in to rob the place (took nothing), killed the child by accident and THEN took the body? Sure that would make no sense.  You hear of robberies going wrong and people being killed, but I've never heard of a robber taking the body with them!" is the crux of this, especially if the police seem to be leaning towards she was killed by accident.

are the police sitting on evidence that proves she was killed in the room? are they just trying to appease public opinion and in fact have no idea what is happening and are preying for a break through?


Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: balladmaker on August 24, 2007, 12:51:43 AM
Personally, I cannot entertain the possibility that the parents were involved, just sounds like total nonsense.

I am of the view that the Portuguese investigators do not have a clue as to what happened on the night, no leads, no forensics, no evidence whatsoever.  I think they may have botched the investigation from the very beginning and are now trying to give the impression to the outside world that they are making progress....a leak here, a leak there, but never anything concrete simply because they haven't got a clue!

Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: small white mayoman on August 24, 2007, 11:23:25 AM
No unfortunately it is not the end of the story, their daughter is still missing. And while they made a mistake until that girl is found none of this can be put to bed. I don't buy into the money story, both parents are doctors. They are not short a few pound.

they are not short a few pound ,well they could have organised a babysitter the night that maddie was abducted/killed rather than leave 3 children under 4 alone. Total neglect on their behalf. 
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Uladh on August 24, 2007, 11:34:12 AM

As has been said many times, they made a horrendous mistake. one i think i would never have made, certainly one noone should ever make again now. the agony they must feel on an hourly basis for letting their little girl down so tragically can never be taken away. us and people all over the world repeating the fact ad nauseum won't change that nor increase their anguish one iota. i can't imagine the pain could be any worse for them anyway.

Their family and their many volunteers have raised a substantial amount of money, there is no doubt. but i don't for one second believe that the mccanns are benefitting from that. the high profile ads and awareness campaigns we have all seen in many countries would take every cent of it. if i was in their situation money, work nor anything else would matter to me. in fact, that her body has not been found would be the only reason i could see for prolonging my own agony.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: dubinhell on August 24, 2007, 12:19:43 PM
Just wait for the book and film in a few years
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: SammyG on August 24, 2007, 01:59:45 PM
Book, film my bollix! They made a mistake, must be a lot of perfect parents out there. As has been stated before, the place they were staying was meant to cater for this type of a family. Obviously they had a false sense of security and paid the price.

Sorry but that is bollix. They had the option to use babysitters, or take turn about with the other parents (or even look after their own kids !!!!) and chose not to. They abandoned 3 kids, under 4 while they went out boozing. As has been said before if this was a sibgle parent from a rundown estate she'd have been crucified for neglect, why should the McCanns get different treatment just becvause they're 'educated'.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on August 24, 2007, 08:16:39 PM
Book, film my bollix! They made a mistake, must be a lot of perfect parents out there. As has been stated before, the place they were staying was meant to cater for this type of a family. Obviously they had a false sense of security and paid the price.

Sorry but that is bollix. They had the option to use babysitters, or take turn about with the other parents (or even look after their own kids !!!!) and chose not to. They abandoned 3 kids, under 4 while they went out boozing. As has been said before if this was a sibgle parent from a rundown estate she'd have been crucified for neglect, why should the McCanns get different treatment just becvause they're 'educated'.

I can't stand this "they made a mistake" bullshit and that's what it is, bullshit! If they put the child in the oven or burned her with fags would it be a mistake too?
People get their children taken off them for a lot less!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: hardstation on August 25, 2007, 01:49:23 AM
Quote
And why does he always want to be in control when the interviews are on and cut in on his wife
Weak link.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Smokin Joe on August 26, 2007, 12:33:29 PM
From a Philadelphia newspaper:

I have championed Don Imus keeping his job. I have defended Barry Bonds' achievements. I stood up for the falsely accused Duke lacrosse players long before they were cleared. I complimented a governor, whom I disagree with on virtually every policy, because he had the guts to take responsibility for a mistake. And I even stated that Paris Hilton was wrongly jailed, receiving unfair treatment because she is a celebrity.
But no matter how much I try, I simply cannot find anything worth defending about Gerry and Kate McCann. Or the complicit paper tiger known as the British media.
It has been nearly 100 days since little Madeleine McCann disappeared, yet intriguing developments and inconsistencies continue to emerge, literally day by day. There was a "100 percent sure" sighting of Madeleine in Belgium, subsequently debunked by DNA testing. A well-respected Portuguese newspaper, the daily Diario de Noticias, has alleged that intercepted e-mails and phone conversations between the McCanns and their friends show that they had knowledge of Madeleine's death.
The perception that the McCanns have not been forthright is building huge momentum. And, as we all know, rightly or wrongly, perception becomes reality.
Millions worldwide have kept Madeleine's story on the front page for a longer duration than ever thought possible. People have offered their prayers, thoughts, assistance, and yes, their wallets to the McCanns in the hope that Madeleine will be safely recovered.
Yet the McCanns' eccentric and illogical behavior, along with conflicting facts of what happened that fateful night, have begun to turn the tide of public opinion. Whereas very few publicly called for child endangerment charges to be brought against the McCanns back in May (yours truly was one of those voices in the wilderness), public opinion now strongly supports such action. Whereas very few originally espoused the notion that the abduction was in some way "faked," doubts about the official version of the May 3 events are now rampant. Whereas the initial investigation did not genuinely focus on the McCanns or their friends as possible suspects, a respected Portuguese newspaper just reported that detectives have "definitely abandoned" the theory that poor Madeleine was abducted, now believing that she was killed inside the McCanns' ground floor, unlocked apartment. Two specialized British dogs, one trained to detect blood and the other to identify the scent of a dead body, apparently reacted positively to both inside the room.
I am certainly in no position to state what actually happened to Madeleine, and there is not enough evidence - yet - to accuse the McCanns of physical wrongdoing, either deliberate or accidental (well, other than their horrendous lack of judgment and non-existent parenting skills). As previously stated, they should definitely be charged with child endangerment, if for no other reason than to ensure that this tragedy does not befall any other "Madeleines."

The British Media's Complicity
Thousands of Brits (and Aussies) have e-mailed with a fury on this issue. What is striking is the commonality on two main points. First, the vast majority of British people think that leaving young children alone while their parents go out to dinner is abhorrent behavior, especially for doctors who should certainly know better (Gerry is a cardiologist and Kate a general practitioner). Second, the British media has absolutely whitewashed the facts in this case, squashing any dissent of Team McCann and choosing fluff over substance. The blatant bias and orchestrated disinformation are outrageous: Letters to the editor are being filtered to only reflect "victim status" toward Gerry and Kate, blog posts and forums containing criticisms have been shut down, common sense questions continue to go unasked and objective journalism/investigative reporting are almost non-existent. All of this from a media establishment, both mainstream and the red top tabloids, that prides itself on its "print and be damned" attitude. Why the rose-colored glasses, and what about the true victim, Madeleine?
What sway the McCanns have over the media, I do not know. But the pendulum has begun to swing back, and the McCann media machine's vice grip on the media is now tenuous.
As famed Australian blogger Mike Hitchen wrote, "The British media establishment is very much a closed shop and operates on the simple concept that you can fool all of the people all of the time. In days gone by that was very much the case. But in their smugness they have failed to take into account an increasingly questioning public with access to information outside the traditional media."
Well said, mate!

Questions For The McCanns
If Gerry and Kate are sincere about cooperating fully with the police, there should be no issue answering some of the most basic questions:
1) Will you and your friends take lie detectors tests? While not guaranteed, they are a decent barometer for an investigation's direction. If there is nothing to hide, releasing the results would be a public relations boon, and the investigation could center around Madeleine for a change.
2) What time was it when you discovered Madeleine was missing? Was it 9 p.m., as Kate states, or 10 p.m.? And why the discrepancy? How long did it take for you to call the police? There are reports of a significant delay on your part. You stated that the shutters were forced open, but the police and hotel staff said there was no evidence of tampering. And Kate, why, upon discovering that Madeleine was missing, did you return to the restaurant, leaving the two-year old twins alone (again) while a predator could still have been lurking nearby? Since the restaurant was only "twenty yards" away, your screaming clearly would have been heard. Interestingly, Kate, you yelled, "They've taken her," but how did you know Madeleine was abducted? After all, the doors were unlocked. Madeleine was known to sleepwalk. Or perhaps this little girl just happened to awaken in a dark, unfamiliar place, becomes scared and, alone and understandably frightened, looked for the comfort of her parents. When she didn't see either of you in the apartment, could she have walked outside to find you? And, by the way, Kate, why did you say "they" took her?
3) Your resort was extremely child-friendly. Why not use the inexpensive babysitting services that were available? Some reports state that you did not want the children to be around unfamiliar people. Yet the same people who ran the day camp your children attended were also the babysitters. Also, how could "strangers" be any worse than leaving three young children (with a combined age of seven) alone in an unlocked apartment?
4) Exactly how far away was the restaurant? There are huge inconsistencies with your answers to this question. Was it 50 yards, 150 or just 20, as Kate stated in an interview last week? Could you in fact see the room from your table? How often did one of you walk back to check on the children before Madeleine went missing: Every hour, half-hour, or not at all? (The statements of the resort staff differ markedly from yours.) If, as you say, this arrangement was so secure, and you could see your apartment from your table, wouldn't you have been able to see any alleged abductor? Isn't it true that your view of the room was partially blocked by a wall and a hedge, and that the other door to the room and the windows were not visible at all? Is this the "secure arrangement" you actually compared to eating in your backyard garden?
5) During a BBC interview, Kate, you were adamant that the children would not awaken during the time you and your husband were dining. Yet since Madeleine had a history of sleepwalking, how could you be so sure of this? Were the children given any sleeping drugs or medications?
6) How often did you dine out (at child-friendly restaurants) while leaving the children alone? What were the distances of these restaurants from your room?
7) Did you ever hire private investigators after Madeleine's disappearance? If not, why?
8) What is the nature of the Limited Company you established after Maddy vanished? How much money has been raised and spent? For what were the spent monies used? Has any reward from the company been posted? Are any family members on the payroll? What are the limitations, if any, on how the money can be spent?
9) Why did you travel to the United States when not one lead ever suggested that Madeleine was taken there? How much money did you raise in America?
10) You stated in an earlier interview: "Looking at it from where we are now, I don't feel we were irresponsible, I feel we are very responsible parents." Do you still feel that way?
These questions are, at a minimum, a logical starting point to get to the bottom of Madeleine's disappearance.
However, there is one point that I simply cannot rectify:
Assume for a minute that if the police dog was accurate in its detection of death in the room, and the death was that of Madeleine - and we all pray that it is not - then why would the perpetrator take a dead child from the room?
A wise man once said that lies reveal more than they conceal.
In their quest for the truth, the British people have shown a temerity and passion that is increasingly rare. They should be justifiably proud of their tenacity in the face of tremendous adversity.
But Gerry and Kate, your 15 minutes are up.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Hurler on the Bitch on August 28, 2007, 10:22:38 PM
If that was my kid I would not have the ability to face anyone! I'D HAVE BEEN IN BITS FOR THE LAST 117 DAYS AND MY BETTER HALF WOULD HAVE BEEN TRANQUILISED OUTTA HER MIND..... Never mind having the ability to front a media campaign................... This is all too casual on behalf of the parents....Methinks they doth protest too much!!!!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Balboa on August 28, 2007, 10:27:05 PM
I dont know if the parents have anything to do with it but it seems to stink to high heaven, they haven't done themselves any favours in the aftermath of her "abduction". They seem to be obsessed with media coverage. I have a feeling there will be a shocking denouement (spelling?) to all this......
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Hurler on the Bitch on August 28, 2007, 10:29:46 PM
If I knew what "denouement" meant I would probably agree with you..
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Hurler on the Bitch on August 28, 2007, 10:48:24 PM
G thanks ... - regarding denoun ment - maybe climax would have done ? ... but that reminds me that I must go up and see how the wife is...  :P :P :P :P :P
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ONeill on August 28, 2007, 10:55:28 PM
Flipping hell, the media speculation is well out of control over there.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Hurler on the Bitch on August 28, 2007, 11:02:25 PM
Regarding this tranquiliser theory............................................. out for a meal... kid sedated ..... all nice and cosy .... arrive home to find child was overdosed... that really does begin to make some logic... kids don't vanish in the manner they suggest....................................................................This thing stinks to high heaven.... practicing catholics/ Christians .... think again..... I know how much of a handful that 3 and 4 year olds are - I was in the Algarve for two weeks last year and our three year old probably caused more stress than you can think................................................. ruined the holiday... Did we DARE leave her alone so as we could go out? No! she - and her sister (8) sat with us for 14 nights in the same Pizza restaurant (only thing she would eat) ... while prior to that the Missus and I tried to relax (with the two kids going wild at our feet) for an hour at a pavement bar trying to relax.... Pool, shops, bars or restaurants ... NOT OUT OF OUR SIGHTS! you must be a confident/cocky B to leave your 4 year old alone... however, if sedated????????????????????????????????///////
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Balboa on August 29, 2007, 10:36:06 AM
G thanks ... - regarding denoun ment - maybe climax would have done ? ... but that reminds me that I must go up and see how the wife is...  :P :P :P :P :P

I would say she managed it already without you  :o  :o
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: mannix on August 29, 2007, 10:37:55 AM
The media could care less about the girl, if they sell papers by sensationalising something thats all they want.Look at the rags that sell in england as "newspapers".Utter tripe.They are the worst in the world and all the dopes that read them are very easily led.When I see someone with a copy of the sun or other tabloid I can automatically assume they are dense, no need to reply to me about this because I have found this true on many occasions, ie, work and relations.

As far as the police in portugal go, i would say they are clueless.The spanish are not much better.Why was the british government in contact with portugal to "offer" its detectives straight away?  Rent the scene of a crime out to another family?  Clueless is too good a word for them. I am very sorry the little girl is missing and my final thought on this is that if she is dead that it was painless and that if there is a god he will punish the perpetrators someday.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: magpie seanie on August 29, 2007, 12:44:50 PM
Two things I believe for what its worth:

1) - The Portugese police are completely inept.
2) - If the McCann's went home to England and didn't engage with the media as they have no-one would be talking about Maddie now. She'd just be a statistic.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on August 29, 2007, 01:11:39 PM
Two things I believe for what its worth:

1) - The Portugese police are completely inept.
2) - If the McCann's went home to England and didn't engage with the media as they have no-one would be talking about Maddie now. She'd just be a statistic.


Agree 100%.

But I now feel that the wee girl is dead, maybe it's time for the parents to begin the extremely hard task of coming to terms with whats looking more and more like the truth. Sadly.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: hardstation on September 02, 2007, 01:38:33 AM
In danger of being closed down by the mods.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Hurler on the Bitch on September 06, 2007, 02:56:24 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6981411.stm

The parents have been taken in for "formal questioning" .. is this the beginning of something sensational?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on September 06, 2007, 04:13:58 PM
they are to be interviewed as witnesses and not as suspects..

wonder what the partial results are?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Hurler on the Bitch on September 06, 2007, 04:24:59 PM
Witnesses? All seems a bit strange after all the hype about 'imminent arrests' and the results of the DNA etc...
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Uladh on September 06, 2007, 04:46:23 PM
Witnesses? All seems a bit strange after all the hype about 'imminent arrests' and the results of the DNA etc...

where were these reports? i never saw them.

it's only the mother in for interview.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Hurler on the Bitch on September 06, 2007, 04:56:13 PM
Dear Uladh... next thing you'll be telling me that Oswald shot Kennedy! I am a great sceptic and this British media inspired campaign -posters everywhere, stupid foreign police etc - to find Maddie just never fizzed on me. The fact is that that the feckin answer may be staring everyone in the face!!!! Think about it!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on September 06, 2007, 05:01:12 PM
The da is in tomorrow
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Hound on September 06, 2007, 09:10:19 PM
they are to be interviewed as witnesses and not as suspects..

wonder what the partial results are?
I'm pretty sure the police havent said whether they are being interviewed as witnesses or suspects. Its only the McCann family who have said the "witnessess" thing.

It is the first time the McCanns have brought lawyers with them for an interview with the police and its understood that its the first time the police have asked to speak to them separately.

But I still can't get a scenario in my head that fits with the McCanns being the ones who killed her.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ludermor on September 06, 2007, 09:38:23 PM
i hear ya, if they did kill her where did the body go?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on September 06, 2007, 09:54:19 PM
Hound

From the BBC

Portuguese police are re-interviewing the mother of missing Madeleine McCann.
Kate McCann and her husband Gerry have previously been interviewed over the disappearance of their daughter from an apartment in Praia da Luz on 3 May.

Mrs McCann arrived at Portimao police station for formal questioning as a witness, with her lawyer. Police have said the McCanns are not suspects.



Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: hardstation on September 07, 2007, 12:36:39 AM
It's looking dodgy in the Al Garve. Just watching BBC News 24. The ma has been in the peeler station for over 10 hours. Her lawyer expected to give a statement shortly.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: hardstation on September 07, 2007, 12:52:59 AM
They've just come out. The ma left the prison. The short statement was in Dungannonish. I'll try and get a translation.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: hardstation on September 07, 2007, 01:04:53 AM
Lawyer said, yer woman was still being treated as a witness and that he couldn't say anymore due to the secrecy law. He also added that the da will go through the same process tomorrow.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: spiritof91and94 on September 07, 2007, 09:09:41 AM
Breaking News

Madeleine's Mum To Be 'Suspect'
Updated: 08:56, Friday September 07, 2007

Kate McCann will be formally declared a suspect in the disappearance of her daughter Madeleine, a family friend has said.
She is said to be "amazed" at the development in the investigation.
 
Kate to be declared a suspectSky News Crime Correspondent Martin Brunt said: "It's an incredible twist in this long-running story.

"I have spoken to a family friend who said Kate has been told that when she comes back to the police station in a couple of hours she will formally be declared a suspect."

He said it doesn't mean that police are close to charging Madeleine's mother.

"The police are doing this so they can ask her a list of 22 questions about the night Madeleine disappeared," Brunt said.

"There are specific questions they need to ask and they can only do that if she is a suspect."

He added: "Until now, she has had great faith in the police to find Madeleine and is amazed at this sudden turn of events."

The McCann family spokesman said: "She is shocked and surprised in several ways. First of all that such an accusation could be made against her.

"And obviously she is concerned that such a line of investigation can become a distraction from further attempts to find Madeleine."

Mrs McCann expects to be made an "arguido", a formal suspect, when she returns to the police station in Portimao following nearly 11 hours of questioning yesterday.

An arguido receives more protection under Portuguese law, including the right to remain silent in formal interviews.

Madeleine's father is also due to be re-interviewed later today.

More follows...

Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: man in black on September 07, 2007, 09:25:50 AM
Read the article 5ivetimes, they have questions to ask her and could only do so if she was made a formal suspect. It would seem the natural process given that they don't really seem to have anything to go on after four months.

Even if the parents are found to be in the wrong, it wouldn't give you too much faith in the Portuguese police. 

Why not? I am sick of hearing of the bungling "foreign johnny" from the brit media. Im am confident the Portuguese police know their own sod.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Hurler on the Bitch on September 07, 2007, 09:35:26 AM
What got me was the fact that the parents never seemed to 'be in bits' about the whole episode. They were at the forefront of a media campaign that was spearheaded by the tabloids in England and made out that everyone was stupid except the McCanns. Looking at Ms McCann, she has evidently never missed a hair appointment etc etc, despite her trauma ... The thing never added up.. Still think the theory about the parents allegedly doping the child so as they could relax and then allegedly finding that she had overdosed holds sway. Allegedly!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ONeill on September 07, 2007, 09:44:01 AM
Still refuse to entertain the idea that the parents have conned institutions, politicians, sports and music stars and the general public (who donated hundreds of thousands). It'd be the con of all-time and would shatter everyone's belief in the concept of truth in the media as well as human nature.(which was hanging by a thread anyway in both cases)
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: SammyG on September 07, 2007, 09:45:21 AM
Why not? I am sick of hearing of the bungling "foreign johnny" from the brit media. Im am confident the Portuguese police know their own sod.
Totally agree. The press have decided that the Portuguese police are crap for the simple reason that they won't give the press statements every five minutes. Portugal is a modern European country with a police force to match, it's not some central American junta.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: SammyG on September 07, 2007, 10:11:23 AM
They released the crime scene before they were finished it, then they go back to look for evidence after another family had lived in the apartment. And to think of the giving out that was done when the family had contaminated the bedroom by allowing other family friends etc to enter it.

They took three weeks to release the description of a man seen carrying a child from the apartments where the McCanns were staying, and only did so under pressure from the British PM.

Must be true it was in the Sun.  ::)
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: man in black on September 07, 2007, 10:15:02 AM
Why not? I am sick of hearing of the bungling "foreign johnny" from the brit media. Im am confident the Portuguese police know their own sod.
Totally agree. The press have decided that the Portuguese police are crap for the simple reason that they won't give the press statements every five minutes. Portugal is a modern European country with a police force to match, it's not some central American junta.

Sweet jesus the night.........there you go.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Hereiam on September 07, 2007, 10:55:17 AM
Had read it somewhere that the McCann's set up a Limited company so they could but all the money that they got into it. Now you tell me is this the true actions of a couple who have just lost a child. To me they are a gulity as hell and have took the whole lot of us for mugs. Tell me what have they done with this money that has been raised besides fly around the world....... They are cute whores i tell ye.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Turlough O Carolan on September 07, 2007, 11:52:59 AM
They released the crime scene before they were finished it, then they go back to look for evidence after another family had lived in the apartment. And to think of the giving out that was done when the family had contaminated the bedroom by allowing other family friends etc to enter it.


Would appear from reports that the main evidence has been found in the next apt the family moved to and the car they rented 5 weeks after the dissappearance. I think history will show the police did an amazing job despite pressure from British media and high profile pols to treat this case as an abduction.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: A Quinn Martin Production on September 07, 2007, 12:02:29 PM
Was it Sherlock Holmes who said something like "Whenever you have eliminated the impossible, what you are left with, however improbable, is the truth".  What I think is happening here is that the police believe they have eliminated abduction, kidnap by a third party etc and what they are left with, however improbable, are the parents.

I still can't believe that the parents could concoct such a brass necked cover up roping in the media, celebrities etc. ???

The other main question if they are involved...what the feck have they done with the body??  They appear to have hidden it very well if they had to act quickly ???
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: man in black on September 07, 2007, 12:08:52 PM
http://news.sky.com/skynews/home (http://news.sky.com/skynews/home)

Its all going off
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on September 07, 2007, 12:16:22 PM
jesus,

Portuguese police have suggested to Kate McCann that traces of her daughter's blood were found in a car the family hired 25 days after the girl went missing, a family friend said.

Mrs McCann, who is being questioned again by police, fears she will be charged today over the death of Madeleine


dont like this
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: man in black on September 07, 2007, 12:23:20 PM
jesus,

Portuguese police have suggested to Kate McCann that traces of her daughter's blood were found in a car the family hired 25 days after the girl went missing, a family friend said.

Mrs McCann, who is being questioned again by police, fears she will be charged today over the death of Madeleine


dont like this

Well thats the bungled sedative theory out the window. If she was sedated (overly) there wouldnt be blood?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Donagh on September 07, 2007, 12:24:44 PM
Might be a silly question but how would the police know it’s her blood if they have nothing to compare it with?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on September 07, 2007, 12:29:50 PM
surely if they have a sample of her DNA they would be able to get it from that?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on September 07, 2007, 12:44:12 PM
Aye I'd imagine they could match the DNA in the blood and whereever else?

Quote
They took three weeks to release the description of a man seen carrying a child from the apartments where the McCanns were staying, and only did so under pressure from the British PM.
Maybe because they knew it was shite?


You'd never hear tell of the parent of a missing child being questioned for so long, on her own, at a police station, with a lawyer if she's not the suspect!
who said they were only making her a suspect so she would answer particular questions?  Surely if she was innocent she would answer any question they wanted if it helped to find her child? 
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: full back on September 07, 2007, 12:53:20 PM
BREAKING NEWS

Kate Mc Cann's lawyer has just told her she may face charges in connection with Maddy's disappearance
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: A Quinn Martin Production on September 07, 2007, 12:55:10 PM
**Kate McCann made/given "arguida" status by peelers.

I would expect the same to happen to Gerry later today....surely if she's involved, he must have known something???
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: blast05 on September 07, 2007, 01:08:36 PM
Quote
For me the police are as bad as the parents. Releasing the apartment before they were finished with it, then taking it back and looking for evidence.

Who is to say some piece of evidence didn't come to light that made the police want to take the apartment back ?


Quote
It'd be the con of all-time and would shatter everyone's belief in the concept of truth in the media as well as human nature

If the McCanns were to be charged and found guilty then how would it be the con of all time. Surely for it to be a con, they would have to get away with it and there would be absolutely no suspicion of them
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: maxpower on September 07, 2007, 01:09:25 PM
jaysus this is astonishing,

i know alot of ones have been accusing the parents right from the off, but i found it very hard to believe that a parent could be as cold and calculated to manipulate so many people, particularly if as is being suggested maddie died by accident, surely in their grief/guilt they couldn't fool so many around the world

Its not looking good but i hope they are innocent and that they find Maddie, would seriously question society's faith in human nature
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: The Real Laoislad on September 07, 2007, 01:19:02 PM
I have a feeling this is just the tip of the iceberg...If the parents or at least one of them is involved it would mean many more people are involved as it would be impossible for them to keep it covered up on their own...
It's their other children i feel sorry for now what must they be going through or what kind of lives are they going to be able lead after all this is over
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on September 07, 2007, 01:22:02 PM
Agree LL, if they are charged formally what about the people they were having dinner with, will they be questioned again?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Balboa on September 07, 2007, 01:22:35 PM
IF they are found guilty of any skullduggery i take it they would be open to legal action from various parties to recoup the enormous "fighting fund" they raised.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: mannix on September 07, 2007, 01:29:26 PM
Why would they kill the girl?What about the other kids, why did they escape death?The whole thing looks like it will come to a shocking end, although after this lenght of denial the mother will do time swearing she is totally innocent and the father will have to face the media daily.
The scary thing is they appear very normal, Susan smith springs to mind.Remember her? American nut that killed her sons and denied it on national tv by asking for the killer to be turned in by anyone that knew them.
Oj Simpson walked but has the look of guilt whenever i see his face on the news,etc.I am surprised he is still around and that he was not a victim of some upset relative of the victims.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on September 07, 2007, 01:31:55 PM
IF they are found guilty of any skullduggery i take it they would be open to legal action from various parties to recoup the enormous "fighting fund" they raised.

I wonder how many of the people who contributed are beginning to have a nagging doubt in the back of their mind, that wee voice questioning them?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ONeill on September 07, 2007, 01:35:26 PM
Rewind here - when did it come to the attention of the police that she was missing?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: The Real Laoislad on September 07, 2007, 01:35:42 PM
Sky News playing the this is disgracefull card....
Only thing i can say is there is no way a Police Force would have gone down this road unless they had some very good evidence or if they weren't 100% sure they had something to go on.
They would have known the media stir this would have created and they would have not made the decision lightly about charging the McCanns or naming them as suspects.


Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: The Real Laoislad on September 07, 2007, 01:39:21 PM
According to Sky News Kate McCann is to be charged with accidental death....If this is true can she also be charged with fooling the world for the last four months?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on September 07, 2007, 01:50:54 PM
fecking hell, this is moving fast, gotta get off the net at 2 but will be on when i get home.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Hurler on the Bitch on September 07, 2007, 01:59:01 PM
This is just horrendous ... it seems to be falling to bits like a house of cards.... Regarding the ability of people to "act innocent" when they are under pressure in criminal circumstances, it has been well-documented throughout history. If you are in a hole you should stop digging - and this is one massive hole the McCanns have dug for themselves. Everybody from the Pope down has been led a merry dance ... not to mention that the Algarve has lost millions in tourism etc.. Deep down all people are capable of evil and this is a prime example. If this is "manslaughter" - which I suspect it is - the fact that they have led this campaign to cover their guilt is just as evil as the child's death. I feel very sad for everyone involved - but let's not forget that a young girl lost her life to what seems to have been at best an act of supreme selfishness and neglect!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Donagh on September 07, 2007, 02:04:52 PM
From what I’ve heard on the radio this “arguida” craic isn’t quite as bad as Sky are making it out to be. Apparently it’s not uncommon for witnesses involved in trials in Portugal to be declared “arguida” or even ask for it themselves. It affords the person a few of the rights given normally to witnesses over here i.e. the right to a solicitor and silence and doesn’t necessarily mean the person is a ‘suspect’ in the way we would interpret it.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ONeill on September 07, 2007, 02:06:48 PM
As regards the booing, a cold silence would have been far more dignified.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: full back on September 07, 2007, 02:22:50 PM
There seems to be a bit of an issue here with finding Maddie's blood on the seat of the hire car the Mc Cann's rented out 25 days after the disappearance.
If this is true they are guilty as fcuk
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: screenexile on September 07, 2007, 02:23:37 PM
Yeah apparently there is some kind of list of questions that the police want to ask her and they can only do this if she is an "arguida". Shocking stuff alright but again it's another trial by media.... for all intents and purposes the mother could be completely innocent yet the event of today could completely tar her and her family forever, especially if they do not catch anyone over this.

I'm not saying the mother didn't do it but we have a justice system for a reason and we have to respect that nobody has any evidence as of yet to prove her guilty and she is innocent until proven otherwise!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: A Quinn Martin Production on September 07, 2007, 02:37:16 PM
There seems to be a bit of an issue here with finding Maddie's blood on the seat of the hire car the Mc Cann's rented out 25 days after the disappearance.
If this is true they are guilty as fcuk


However we are lead to believe that the police theory is that Madeleine died in the apartment on 3rd May.  I'm no forensic scientist but how would a blood "stain" (as reported on BBC) transfer itself to the seat of a car at least 25 days later??  The only thing I can think is that dried blood from Kate McCann's clothing somehow survived washing and turned up in that car.  Unless the McCann's had a hired car on the night of the "disappearance" and were hired the same car 25 days later ???  Have I been watching too much Midsomer Murders or would Judge John Deed laugh this out of court??
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: screenexile on September 07, 2007, 02:43:50 PM
Horatio Caine would have it sorted out in no time at all. The man's a legend in the world of forensic science!!!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: SammyG on September 07, 2007, 02:50:35 PM
From what I’ve heard on the radio this “arguida” craic isn’t quite as bad as Sky are making it out to be. Apparently it’s not uncommon for witnesses involved in trials in Portugal to be declared “arguida” or even ask for it themselves. It affords the person a few of the rights given normally to witnesses over here i.e. the right to a solicitor and silence and doesn’t necessarily mean the person is a ‘suspect’ in the way we would interpret it.

Correct, it's no different to the rules in  the UK were you get arrested but as a witness not a suspect. It just means that you're questioned under caution and have access to legal advice etc. It doesn't mean that she's any more guilty (or any more innocent) than she was yesterday.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: A Quinn Martin Production on September 07, 2007, 02:57:53 PM
Rewind here - when did it come to the attention of the police that she was missing?

That is an interesting question, when is the last sighting of the toddler by a non family member? When is the last time they put the toddler into day care?

While I believe they are innocent until proven otherwise, while questions like these remain unanswered the media is going to try and fill in the blanks for themselves.

This is key if the McCanns are involved.  They would need a fair bit of time to concoct a story and somehow dispose of the body so that it still han't been found 16 weeks later.  IMHO if Madeleine died in the apartment on that evening there's no way even the most calculating mind could have covered this up in a couple of hours...but what about this for a conspiracy theory...what if the police are putting pressure on Kate to try to draw somehitng out of Gerry????
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: The Real Laoislad on September 07, 2007, 03:03:36 PM
From what I've heard on the radio this “arguida” craic isn’t quite as bad as Sky are making it out to be. Apparently it’s not uncommon for witnesses involved in trials in Portugal to be declared “arguida” or even ask for it themselves. It affords the person a few of the rights given normally to witnesses over here i.e. the right to a solicitor and silence and doesn’t necessarily mean the person is a ‘suspect’ in the way we would interpret it.

Correct, it's no different to the rules in  the UK were you get arrested but as a witness not a suspect. It just means that you're questioned under caution and have access to legal advice etc. It doesn't mean that she's any more guilty (or any more innocent) than she was yesterday.


But if what is being reported now that she is going to be charged with accidental death is true,they must have some evidence to point in the direction of her being guilty of something and thus making her more guilty than she was yesterday
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: SammyG on September 07, 2007, 03:08:45 PM
From what I've heard on the radio this “arguida” craic isn’t quite as bad as Sky are making it out to be. Apparently it’s not uncommon for witnesses involved in trials in Portugal to be declared “arguida” or even ask for it themselves. It affords the person a few of the rights given normally to witnesses over here i.e. the right to a solicitor and silence and doesn’t necessarily mean the person is a ‘suspect’ in the way we would interpret it.

Correct, it's no different to the rules in  the UK were you get arrested but as a witness not a suspect. It just means that you're questioned under caution and have access to legal advice etc. It doesn't mean that she's any more guilty (or any more innocent) than she was yesterday.


But if what is being reported now that she is going to be charged with accidental death is true,they must have some evidence to point in the direction of her being guilty of something and thus making her more guilty than she was yesterday

Probably true and I've been saying that the parents did it since day one but changing her to a 'suspect' doesn't affect that. It will only change when she's charged and put before a court.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on September 07, 2007, 03:34:41 PM
Being deemed a suspect allows the police to ask certain questions but also allows the suspects legal advisor more access to the evidence being put to the McCann's.  Given the nature of the Portuguese legal system and the whole restrictions on reporting the fact that this has happened, coupled with the apparent indication by the McCann's lawyer that there is a high possibility of a charge, the evidence must be fairly strong. 

But as has been correctly pointed out they are no more guilty or innocent than they were before the change of status.  It would be akin to having attended the police station as a volunteer for questioning, where a  person can leave without the police preventing it, and then being arrested and cautioned, where there is no right to leave, but your rights to legal advice increase.


The ironic thing is that after all the backing that the McCann's received through the incessant media coverage in Britain, it is a british forensics team who seem to have confirmed the evidence against them.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: The Real Laoislad on September 07, 2007, 03:38:05 PM
Gerry McCann just gone into Police station
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: The Real Laoislad on September 07, 2007, 03:39:21 PM
Police are finished questioning Kate McCann  and have not charged her with anything
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: full back on September 07, 2007, 03:40:59 PM
Just to throw a spanner in the works here,
Whats the story now with Robert Murat now - had they any evidence against him or was it just a hunch?

My Mrs had a concept a few weeks ago - The parents disposed of the body after the child had been accidentally killed by the parent/s when they were drunk.
I laughed her out of the room - what an absurd idea :o
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: hardstation on September 07, 2007, 03:47:45 PM
What is an arguida? The boy on BBC News 24 just said "She is an arguida which means she is an official suspect at the minute".
Are peoples (board members) opinions changing about the parents?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Balboa on September 07, 2007, 03:50:48 PM
What is an arguida? The boy on BBC News 24 just said "She is an arguida which means she is an official suspect at the minute".
Are peoples (board members) opinions changing about the parents?

Its a small lizard found in sub-sahara africa.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: hardstation on September 07, 2007, 03:52:55 PM
Takes one to know one. ;D
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: maxpower on September 07, 2007, 03:54:01 PM
certainly my opinion is changing, while i always accepted they had erred in leaving the child unattended i always believed they had done so in good faith, and hd been heavily punished for the error of judgement.  It now looks increasing like they have done alot more wrong than that and the ony ones to suffer have been wee Maddie and the general public

I am a recent parent and at the minute the stories bombarding the news of child death and cruelity is really leaving me sick, if its not these revelations about Maddie and the many suspect theories i have heard its a that pitbull case or the couple who tortured their 15 month baby.

shocking -
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Silky on September 07, 2007, 04:02:30 PM
Nothing has been confirmed by the police as of yet, while it is isn't looking good for them. I wouldn't say my opinion has changed much, just a matter of letting the story unfold before pointing fingers.
I agree let's wait and see. I have an open mind.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: The Real Laoislad on September 07, 2007, 04:04:34 PM
Latest Update - Gerry's Blog/Diary 

Day 126 - 06/09/2007

Everyone will know that Kate attended for interview as a witness with the Portuguese police today. This is only the second time Kate has been interviewed and although it was a long day, going on past midnight, this was shorter than my second interview which lasted 13 hours! The suggestion that Kate is involved in Madeleines disappearance is ludicrous. Anyone who knows anything about the 3rd May knows that Kate is completely innocent. We will fight this all the way and we will not stop looking for Madeleine.

 
 
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Wee Roddy on September 07, 2007, 04:05:18 PM
For God sake people. The woman has been released and is not charged. This would not be the first time that Sky News have speculated to boost viewing figures.

I still think it is highly unlikley that the parents had anything to do with it. My sister has a child aged 3 and the amount of scrapes and cuts they get innocently is unbelievable. Her mother cleans these up all the time so if the police found traces of blood a month later, is she guilty of any crime? I dont think so.

Could it be possible that this is the only evidence that they have in the whole case. Is it substantial enough for a murder charge? I doubt it. So do the police obviously when she left the station

So why are the majority of people saying she is guilty?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Star Spangler on September 07, 2007, 04:12:45 PM
Quote
My sister has a child aged 3 and the amount of scrapes and cuts they get innocently is unbelievable.

It appears that the suspicion is based on traces of Maddie's blood being found in a car the McCanns hired after they reported her missing.

Reports say the police are following the line that the McCann's gave Maddie sedatives to get her to sleep but accidentally overdosed her.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ziggysego on September 07, 2007, 04:16:31 PM
I'm not for one minute saying whether I believe the McCann's were involved or not..

BUT

It has been done in the past, where the police purposely parade parents and other such friends or family of victim in front of the media to ask for forgiveness. In the past, they usually make a mistake somewhere along the line.

Prehaps that's what was happening here.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: bingobus on September 07, 2007, 04:23:53 PM
Quote
My sister has a child aged 3 and the amount of scrapes and cuts they get innocently is unbelievable.

It appears that the suspicion is based on traces of Maddie's blood being found in a car the McCanns hired after they reported her missing.

Reports say the police are following the line that the McCann's gave Maddie sedatives to get her to sleep but accidentally overdosed her.

I'm a bit puzzled by the above police "evidence". If they gave her sedatives why would there be blood in the car. Would the overdose have caused her to bleed? Am I missing something.

If the car was hired 25 days after the wee girl was reported missing, how were they able to move her body without the press on their tail as they have been constantly in the media glare since. I would assume that this is the police argument or could blood have found its way to the car another way.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Gnevin on September 07, 2007, 04:23:59 PM
What is an arguida? The boy on BBC News 24 just said "She is an arguida which means she is an official suspect at the minute".
Are peoples (board members) opinions changing about the parents?
That pretty much all it is , the over their police are limited in the questions they can ask unless they declared some onea arguido
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Wee Roddy on September 07, 2007, 04:43:14 PM
It is dried blood they found in the car that must have came of some of the parents clothes. This seems to be what the Polices big break through is. What i am saying is that if a mother cleans up a knick that a child gets it is very likely that some blood will get on her clothes. This then rubbed against some fabric in a car 25 days later and the police assume it is blood from the night the child went missing.

It is ludicrous!

Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: The Real Laoislad on September 07, 2007, 04:49:50 PM
It is dried blood they found in the car that must have came of some of the parents clothes. This seems to be what the Polices big break through is. What i am saying is that if a mother cleans up a knick that a child gets it is very likely that some blood will get on her clothes. This then rubbed against some fabric in a car 25 days later and the police assume it is blood from the night the child went missing.

It is ludicrous!




I think it's more ludicrous to think that blood would be carried around on a person or persons clothing for 25 days without said person either not washing themselves or not washing their clothes..
Has the details of where the blood was found been released? As in was it in the boot of the car or the back seat or front of car?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Wee Roddy on September 07, 2007, 04:56:54 PM
Surely those of us who can use a washing machine know that blood stains are hard to remove!!

More likely that as they were in a foreign country on holiday and her daughter had just disapeared- poor Kate did not get the time to do any washing. I have noticed her wearing the same clothes alot in tv interviews and i am about as observant as Stevie Wonder.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on September 07, 2007, 05:09:17 PM
I think now she has not benn formally charged we are back to speculation, is the blood stain media speculation or fact?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ziggysego on September 07, 2007, 07:06:17 PM
She has been offered a two year prison or less, if she confesses to accidentially killing Maddie, covering it up and exposing of the body.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: The Real Laoislad on September 07, 2007, 07:11:03 PM
She has been offered a two year prison or less, if she confesses to accidentially killing Maddie, covering it up and exposing of the body.


The Police are either 100% sure they have substantial evidence or else they are chancing their arm and hoping they are right
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on September 07, 2007, 07:13:38 PM
just heard that one about the deal, but that is only from one source, her sister in Scotland.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on September 07, 2007, 08:01:30 PM
She has been offered a two year prison or less, if she confesses to accidentially killing Maddie, covering it up and exposing of the body.


The Police are either 100% sure they have substantial evidence or else they are chancing their arm and hoping they are right
Or going after the Da.


Quote
It is dried blood they found in the car that must have came of some of the parents clothes. This seems to be what the Polices big break through is. What i am saying is that if a mother cleans up a knick that a child gets it is very likely that some blood will get on her clothes. This then rubbed against some fabric in a car 25 days later and the police assume it is blood from the night the child went missing.

It is ludicrous!
Its ludicrous alright that if the mother cleaned a child's cut, it could get on her clothes and then onto a car a month later!
Sure if that was the case police would be finding blood everywhere in every investigation. 

I'd imagine the only way blood could have got into the car if they were disposing of the body or prehaps clothing or blankets or something used that would have had a substantial amount of blood on them. 

Is it too far fetched to think the child mighten be dead and it's a money making racket? hmmm ok, probably.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: SuperSub on September 07, 2007, 08:08:13 PM
What about this far fetched idea?

The blood was planted in the car by the real abducter to frame the parents?


OR


The Police planted it because they were no closer to finding the wee girl so this is a way out for them?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on September 07, 2007, 08:11:15 PM
It was english police that found the blood.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: SuperSub on September 07, 2007, 08:12:29 PM
Ok but what about the first theory it is possible...
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on September 07, 2007, 08:37:46 PM
they still could have planted the blood and let the English police find it?

Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: belleaqua on September 07, 2007, 08:54:30 PM
Is it anyways possible that its all a smokescreen to unnerve a different suspect to make them do something to tip them off?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: seanf on September 07, 2007, 10:24:14 PM
Not quite sure what to make of this case!

Something strange about McCanns though, thought this from day one!visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on September 07, 2007, 10:39:13 PM
Gerry is still there, nearly 8 hours
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: seanobrien12 on September 07, 2007, 10:45:57 PM
Parents covered up "ACCIDENTAL" death because if the truth came out parents would have lost their high pay as doctors in UK
THATS WHY THEY COVERED UP THE POOR CHILD'S DEATH
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ONeill on September 07, 2007, 10:55:44 PM
TYP, you've been fairly vocal in you media representation of this story. What's your personal view?

I still believe they've nothing to do with it.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: heganboy on September 07, 2007, 10:55:53 PM
Quote
Parents covered up "ACCIDENTAL" death because if the truth came out parents would have lost their high pay as doctors in UK
THATS WHY THEY COVERED UP THE POOR CHILD'S DEATH

thats brilliant- I wonder why nobody thought of it- Goddamit you're a Genius man. You should phone the news and let them know your theory. The Sun will print it
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ONeill on September 07, 2007, 11:29:12 PM
An excellent response.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: balladmaker on September 08, 2007, 12:53:30 AM
Do I think they were involved in the death of their own child?  Yes, they definitely contributed to the situation by the madness of leaving three children under 4 years old in an apartment all alone.  But do I think they actually killed their child, accidentally or otherwise?  No, I just cannot take that in.

I agree with everything already said by TYP.  Also, I just can't see how the police can expect to pin it on them via evidence of Maddies blood found in a rental car, which was hired by the McCann's five weeks after their child went missing.  How could they have hidden the child's body so well in the immediate aftermath?  How could they then go back to the location where they first placed the body, and then move it in the rental car, while under the glare of the world's media and of course the police.

This all stinks of a massive framing attempt so as to cover up the shambolic police investigation to date.  Or are the family being set up by the real culprit, maybe someone close to them who can also get easy access to the same rental car? 

As of now, both parents have been named as official suspects.  But why has the first official suspect, Robert Murat, not been cleared yet?  Why are they keeping him hanging on?  I read a quote from his lawyer yesterday who said that they believed Murat was being used as an official suspect as a decoy, to lull the real culprit(s) into a false sense of security.

And still there is no word on where Madelleine McCann is, dead or otherwise. 

There will be some film made about this when it is eventually resolved.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on September 08, 2007, 12:58:47 AM
Quote
  How could they have hidden the child's body so well in the immediate aftermath?  How could they then go back to the location where they first placed the body, and then move it in the rental car, while under the glare of the world's media and of course the police.

Of course you're assuming it was them that moved the body. 

As for someone framing them, you'd think he'd do a better job than he did.

No matter what conclusion you can come to it's quite shocking, we'll all be shocked at the outcome, if we expect it or not.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: muppet on September 08, 2007, 01:09:48 AM
In the event of no real leads the focus will inevitably turn to the family.

TYP a great post.

 I hope it wasn't either parent but at this stage it wouldn't be such a surprise. The old cliche 'most murder victims know their killer' takes on greater significance when the death occurs on a family holiday.

It could be shoddy investigative work, then again it could be the logical conclusion.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: clarshack on September 08, 2007, 01:15:53 AM
totally confused! can see the arguments for both sides. wouldnt like to be on a jury for this one!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Turlough O Carolan on September 08, 2007, 01:17:37 AM
Also, I just can't see how the police can expect to pin it on them via evidence of Maddies blood found in a rental car, which was hired by the McCann's five weeks after their child went missing. 

This evidence is based on British cadaver dogs (who were also used to solve crimes in Ireland). They are trained to detect the scent of a corpse, but can only do so if a corpse has been present for more than 1 and half hours minimum. The scent can also be transferred. According to the so called leaks, the scent was detected in the apartment and also the second apartment rented by the family, as well as the car rented 25 days after the disappearance, along with some items of clothing. The dogs were videod and the evidence can be used in court. The fact the the scent was detected contradicts and abduction theory as the friends and family claim the children were being checked at regular intervals, and raises the question how the corpse scent could have developed. This obviously sounds very CSI, but these dogs were supplied by the British police, the forensic evidence was conducted in Birmingham, and therefore one can hardly accuse the local police of trying to frame the family.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on September 08, 2007, 01:22:18 AM
Also, I just can't see how the police can expect to pin it on them via evidence of Maddies blood found in a rental car, which was hired by the McCann's five weeks after their child went missing.

This evidence is based on British cadaver dogs (who were also used to solve crimes in Ireland). They are trained to detect the scent of a corpse, but can only do so if a corpse has been present for more than 1 and half hours minimum. The scent can also be transferred. According to the so called leaks, the scent was detected in the apartment and also the second apartment rented by the family, as well as the car rented 25 days after the disappearance, along with some items of clothing. The dogs were videod and the evidence can be used in court. The fact the the scent was detected contradicts and abduction theory as the friends and family claim the children were being checked at regular intervals, and raises the question how the corpse scent could have developed. This obviously sounds very CSI, but these dogs were supplied by the British police, the forensic evidence was conducted in Birmingham, and therefore one can hardly accuse the local police of trying to frame the family.

Fecking hell...


I challenge anyone to read the da's blog and argue the are the words of a man grieving for his daughter!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: bcarrier on September 08, 2007, 09:24:46 AM
Current theory just doesnt seem credible . Remember this :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azaria_Chamberlain_disappearance
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Fluffy Che on September 08, 2007, 09:34:13 AM
Gerry now a suspect....3 suspects, one crime. Guilty!

Yon other boy, a stalking horse.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on September 08, 2007, 09:59:42 AM
a lot of the speculation must center around the secrecy laws in Portugal, without the constant updates from the police the media, and ourselves, fill the void with all sort of theories, ranging from the logical to the not so.

One of the many things I cannot comprehend, is this time frame:

Maddie and the twins put to bed, time i dont know,

9:00 checked by gerry and all OK

9:30 checked by a friend and all OK

10:05 maddie missing

I only found out last night on the BBC that it was a friend that checked the children at 9:30, if say this check diddnt happen and this time has been thrown in to assist the McCanns that means that Maddie could have been missing for over an hour giving anyone ample time to flee the scene.

I believe the mother of another child who disappeared while on holiday was interviewed on TV during the week, anyone see this or can remember the childs name?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: tintin25 on September 08, 2007, 10:33:31 AM
a lot of the speculation must center around the secrecy laws in Portugal, without the constant updates from the police the media, and ourselves, fill the void with all sort of theories, ranging from the logical to the not so.

One of the many things I cannot comprehend, is this time frame:

Maddie and the twins put to bed, time i dont know,

9:00 checked by gerry and all OK

9:30 checked by a friend and all OK

10:05 maddie missing

I only found out last night on the BBC that it was a friend that checked the children at 9:30, if say this check diddnt happen and this time has been thrown in to assist the McCanns that means that Maddie could have been missing for over an hour giving anyone ample time to flee the scene.

I believe the mother of another child who disappeared while on holiday was interviewed on TV during the week, anyone see this or can remember the childs name?

Ben Needham I think his name was. Went missing in Greece in 1991.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on September 08, 2007, 10:49:21 AM
think thats the one.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: muppet on September 08, 2007, 11:48:58 AM
Quote
9:30 checked by a friend and all OK

Turns out all the friend did was put his ear the door. As he heard nothing he assumed all was ok.

One annoying thing about cases like this it the amount of people (especially the media) that justifiy their initial guilty or not guilty hunches on appearances. Do people really think they can tell guilt looking at behaviour in a few photos and news reports? Why do we even bother with a trial?

Given that their are usually only two possibilities, gulity or not guilty, people will therefore have a 50% success rate with their hunches. That Dingo case demonstrates how dangerous it is to let the media steer our opinions.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on September 08, 2007, 11:59:10 AM
Quote
One annoying thing about cases like this it the amount of people (especially the media) that justifiy their initial guilty or not guilty hunches on appearances. Do people really think they can tell guilt looking at behaviour in a few photos and news reports? Why do we even bother with a trial?
No one is doing that, some just find their behaviour unusual. 

Quote
That Dingo case demonstrates how dangerous it is to let the media steer our opinions.
The media have been with the McCanns from day one!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: seanf on September 08, 2007, 12:04:15 PM
Maybe after all the abuse they have had, the Portuguese police will get commended for unravelling a massive cover up whilst being under pressure from the worlds press!


You never know!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Balboa on September 08, 2007, 12:08:17 PM
Maybe after all the abuse they have had, the Portuguese police will get commended for unravelling a massive cover up whilst being under pressure from the worlds press!


You never know!

I know, can you remember the British media about a month into the story, backward Portugese police, incompetence etc......
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: muppet on September 08, 2007, 12:13:10 PM
Quote
One annoying thing about cases like this it the amount of people (especially the media) that justifiy their initial guilty or not guilty hunches on appearances. Do people really think they can tell guilt looking at behaviour in a few photos and news reports? Why do we even bother with a trial?
No one is doing that, some just find their behaviour unusual. 

Quote
That Dingo case demonstrates how dangerous it is to let the media steer our opinions.
The media have been with the McCanns from day one!

That is the point. What business do the media have taking sides?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: muppet on September 08, 2007, 12:24:16 PM
The British media seem to be taking the side of the McCanns, whereas the rest of the world seem to be questioning their involvment.

Reporters should report, not tell us what to think.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on September 08, 2007, 12:24:59 PM
The British media seem to be taking the side of the McCanns, whereas the rest of the world seem to be questioning their involvment.

Reporters should report, not tell us what to think.

Agree.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Balboa on September 08, 2007, 12:26:37 PM
The British media seem to be taking the side of the McCanns, whereas the rest of the world seem to be questioning their involvment.

Because of their initial almost canonisation of the Mc Canns they may find it difficult turning on them just yet, but mark my words if they are found guilty the media will turn on them or they will lose all credibility.There will be a story in Sun/Mirror from an ex boyfriend/girlfriend of Mc Canns saying they always thought they were evil........
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: muppet on September 08, 2007, 12:29:43 PM
The British media seem to be taking the side of the McCanns, whereas the rest of the world seem to be questioning their involvment.

Because of their initial almost canonisation of the Mc Canns they may find it difficult turning on them just yet, but mark my words if they are found guilty the media will turn on them or they will lose all credibility.There will be a story in Sun/Mirror from an ex boyfriend/girlfriend of Mc Canns saying they always thought they were evil........

That was going to be my next post. If they are guilty the British media will slaughter them which is fair enough, but it will be for the wrong reason.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: SuperSub on September 08, 2007, 12:48:03 PM
The British media seem to be taking the side of the McCanns, whereas the rest of the world seem to be questioning their involvment.

Because of their initial almost canonisation of the Mc Canns they may find it difficult turning on them just yet, but mark my words if they are found guilty the media will turn on them or they will lose all credibility.There will be a story in Sun/Mirror from an ex boyfriend/girlfriend of Mc Canns saying they always thought they were evil........


Its been said before but if the McCanns were from a council estate in London or wherever would the press have been so quick to side with them
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: SuperSub on September 08, 2007, 12:56:30 PM
Maybe after all the abuse they have had, the Portuguese police will get commended for unravelling a massive cover up whilst being under pressure from the worlds press!


You never know!

I know, can you remember the British media about a month into the story, backward Portugese police, incompetence etc......


And the amount of times they had experts on saying "This wouldn't happen in England" as regards to the way the case is being carried out by the portugese police
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: SuperSub on September 08, 2007, 12:58:12 PM
Quote
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Tyrone lady on September 08, 2007, 04:47:24 PM
I dont believe for a second that either parent killed madeline, either accidentally or otherwise. I honestly feel that the portugese police are under severe pressure to find something or find some sort of outcome, this case was never just going to go away, they seemed to have exhausted all other options and perhaps this is only one they had left.  I also believe that if the police had hard concrete evidence that either parent killed their daughter they would have been charged. There is rarely ever the perfect murder, there is always a slip up, even to those most familar and skilled at what they are doing, how in heavens name would mrs mc cann hide every scrap of evidence, i just dont buy it. If police had dammin evidence she would be a goner and charged with muder manslaughter or whatever, but they obviously dont, and i believe they are hopin that they will crack and admit to it and make their jobs a hell of a lot easier. Cant see this happening. Just refuse to believe they had anything to do with it and it would destroy any faith i had in human nature. 
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on September 08, 2007, 04:59:11 PM
Quote
Cant see this happening. Just refuse to believe they had anything to do with it and it would destroy any faith i had in human nature.
I don't get this faith in human nature stuff, they'd hardly be the first people to kill a child.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Tyrone lady on September 08, 2007, 05:04:56 PM
Yes pint i know this, im referring to the fact that they have had the whole nation behind them for so long trying to help them, and giving them money etc, i mean if they did turn out guilty i would feel like i could never believ anything strongly again as i have believed in them right from the start, duno if you understand what i mean but anyway
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: muppet on September 08, 2007, 05:11:12 PM
They could have left anytime. Unless of course that wasn't the case and that they had been 'asked' to stay all along.

I never heard of the type of dogs mentioned in the posts above but if those dogs reliably picked up the scent of a corpse then at least there are some questions that need to be answered by the McCanns. It still doesn't make them guilty though.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on September 08, 2007, 05:13:48 PM
Yes pint i know this, im referring to the fact that they have had the whole nation behind them for so long trying to help them, and giving them money etc, i mean if they did turn out guilty i would feel like i could never believ anything strongly again as i have believed in them right from the start, duno if you understand what i mean but anyway

I get it hard to have sympathy with the "whole nation" because if it was the child of a single mother from some council estate they would slaughter her.  There would be no visits to the pope, no touring on private jets etc.  My faith in human nature went when it became blindly obvious that in this day and age your profession and social class still matters.  That is what's very sad. 
Of course I have every sympathy with the little girl and still hope she turns up well but I can't help wondering if the people who were so willing to throw money at the mccanns threw money at children in third world countries how many lives a million plus pounds would have saved.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Tyrone lady on September 08, 2007, 05:19:56 PM
Pint you keep going back to this about their social class, thats irrelevant now, in my opinion anyway, why is it that every post you make, in relation to everyting and anything that you seem to hate the world and see the worse in everything and everyone. You seem to me like a very bitter man.
Anyway this isnt the thread for this so il leave it at that
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on September 08, 2007, 05:28:21 PM
Pint you keep going back to this about their social class, thats irrelevant now, in my opinion anyway, why is it that every post you make, in relation to everyting and anything that you seem to hate the world and see the worse in everything and everyone. You seem to me like a very bitter man.
Anyway this isnt the thread for this so il leave it at that
::)
You or no one else on this board knows anything about me but I love the way you can all make judgments.

Sadly social class is very relevant in this case. 
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: The Real Laoislad on September 08, 2007, 05:38:31 PM
I agree with POG..If they had of been from a council estate in Liverpool or Manchester or anywhere in England i have a feeling the publics and the medias initial reaction would have been completely different
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Turlough O Carolan on September 08, 2007, 05:45:22 PM
I also believe that if the police had hard concrete evidence that either parent killed their daughter they would have been charged.

Portuguse system does not work like ours or the UK. The police cannot charge them or anyone else.  All they can do is gather as much evidence as possible and it is up to the public prosecutor to charge some one. There is a lot of investigating to be done yet. It's possible some of the friends will also have to be called back to be re interviewed. No one will be charged until all the evidence is gathered, and all the forensic evidence is not even back yet. Of course you may be correct and there may not be enough evidence to charge anyone, but I do not think we can read anything into the fact that no one has been charged yet. With the eyes of the world on them, the police - if someone is going to be charged - will make sure this is watertight before they present all the evidence to the public prosecutor.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Tyrone lady on September 08, 2007, 06:17:49 PM
Another thing that just doesnt add up with me, where could they have hidden the body, how wud they have got away with a body and hidden it, how well do they know they area? id imagine not overly well, it would be hard enuff to hide a body round ur home in an area you know well, so how would you get it hidden in an area you arent sure of, wouldnt the corpse start to smell, 25 days is a long time for a body to fester somewhere in extreme heat when every cop in portugal is searching for it, i cant believe that it was hidden, also how would mrs mc cann have got enough time on her own to go retrieve the body again and take it and dispose of it again, without anyone noticing anything.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: The Real Laoislad on September 08, 2007, 06:28:49 PM
Another thing that just doesnt add up with me, where could they have hidden the body, how wud they have got away with a body and hidden it, how well do they know they area? id imagine not overly well, it would be hard enuff to hide a body round ur home in an area you know well, so how would you get it hidden in an area you arent sure of, wouldnt the corpse start to smell, 25 days is a long time for a body to fester somewhere in extreme heat when every cop in portugal is searching for it, i cant believe that it was hidden, also how would mrs mc cann have got enough time on her own to go retrieve the body again and take it and dispose of it again, without anyone noticing anything.
Maybe she didn't..Its quite possible someone else done that deed

Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Tyrone lady on September 08, 2007, 06:35:18 PM
who though? Gerry wouldnt have had the opportunity either, well i doubt he would have, do you serously believe that some of their friends helped them?? If one of your friends came to you with the scenario, oh i killed my child and i have hidden her in such a place, would you mind going and getting her and disposing of her for me, who would do such a thing? if she did do it then the there a number of people who know all about it and i dont believe in the slightest that a secret like that can be kept hidden within any group of friends or associates. So who would have had the body in the car????? Cant see how the mc canns could have with the media glare on them every step they took and there wouldnt be a friend in the world would do it for you
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: The Real Laoislad on September 08, 2007, 06:49:02 PM
You seem to be caught up too much on the good of human nature...Humans do awful things everyday..
You just keep saying who would do such a thing or how could anyone do such a thing...
It is very possible that either of the parents killed the child.It is also very possible that someone helped them dispose of the body
I for one hope thats not true but I'm not so naive that i don't think it couldn't of happened because it quite easily could be true as easily as it might not be true,But i defiantly wouldn't dismiss the possibility that it might be true on the theory of how could anyone do such a thing
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Turlough O Carolan on September 08, 2007, 06:51:46 PM
So who would have had the body in the car?????

No evidence a body was in a car. Only minute specs of blood not detectable to the human eye. Could have come from clothes in contact with a body or anything. It's up to the lab in Birmingham to determine the nature of the evidence.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Tyrone lady on September 08, 2007, 06:58:17 PM
Lets rewind laois lad, i never based anything solely on the fact i dont believe its in human nature, i know terrible things happen every day so do not dare patronise me please. I said i dont believe for a minute they did it for several reasons, one being that i didnt think they would do such a thing, followed largely by reasons i just stated, as in where would they hide the body, how would it not be found, how would it not smell, how i feel the portguese police are trying to get closure in whatever way they see possible . I am not a naieve silly girl who thinks that bad things dont happen in this world, catch yourself on. We all know bad things happen and we all know there is a bad side to humans as there is a good one. Of course if they did do it there is a possibilty someone moved the body for them, but i doubt it.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: The Real Laoislad on September 08, 2007, 07:36:21 PM
Lets rewind laois lad, i never based anything solely on the fact i dont believe its in human nature, i know terrible things happen every day so do not dare patronise me please. I said i dont believe for a minute they did it for several reasons, one being that i didnt think they would do such a thing, followed largely by reasons i just stated, as in where would they hide the body, how would it not be found, how would it not smell, how i feel the portguese police are trying to get closure in whatever way they see possible . I am not a naieve silly girl who thinks that bad things dont happen in this world, catch yourself on. We all know bad things happen and we all know there is a bad side to humans as there is a good one. Of course if they did do it there is a possibility someone moved the body for them, but i doubt it.
First of all i apologise if i came across as patronising it wasn't my intention
If the Portuguese Police are trying to find closure as you claim how do you explain the blood in the car,also it is a very dangerous comment to make as you are practically saying the Police are trying to frame the McCanns.Do you really believe the Police came up with this story and are trying to get the McCanns to admit manslaughter just so they can put a end to the case...
Also the blood was found by British sniffer dogs..
Maybe im wrong but i think there is no smoke without fire and from Day 1 i have had my suspicions about the McCanns

Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on September 08, 2007, 07:49:44 PM
How long does blood stay on someones clothes? could one of the McCanns have residual blood from, say a cut from Maddie on their trousers and transferred this to a seat in the car?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: The Real Laoislad on September 08, 2007, 08:04:07 PM
How long does blood stay on someones clothes? could one of the McCanns have residual blood from, say a cut from Maddie on their trousers and transferred this to a seat in the car?

Im quite sure thats possible,But 25 days later? I doubt it
Also it could have even been longer than 25 days,because they hired the car 25 days later but who's too say the blood wasn't transferred to the car by whatever means until days or weeks later..How long did they have the car hired for?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Gnevin on September 08, 2007, 08:11:16 PM
How long does blood stay on someones clothes? could one of the McCanns have residual blood from, say a cut from Maddie on their trousers and transferred this to a seat in the car?

Im quite sure thats possible,But 25 days later? I doubt it
Also it could have even been longer than 25 days,because they hired the car 25 days later but who's too say the blood wasn't transferred to the car by whatever means until days or weeks later..How long did they have the car hired for?
I'm quite sure thats impossible , the blood would be fully dyed in within a matter of hours and so their is no way to transfer . Also the ammount of blood your talking about would be so small to be hard to measure on the jeans let alone transfer
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: The Real Laoislad on September 08, 2007, 08:13:37 PM
How long does blood stay on someones clothes? could one of the McCanns have residual blood from, say a cut from Maddie on their trousers and transferred this to a seat in the car?

Im quite sure thats possible,But 25 days later? I doubt it
Also it could have even been longer than 25 days,because they hired the car 25 days later but who's too say the blood wasn't transferred to the car by whatever means until days or weeks later..How long did they have the car hired for?
I'm quite sure thats impossible , the blood would be fully dyed in within a matter of hours and so their is no way to transfer . Also the ammount of blood your talking about would be so small to be hard to measure on the jeans let alone transfer

Well that was my point too.I meant its quite possible if you are talking minutes or a few hours thats why i said if your talking 25 days later i doubt it
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Gnevin on September 08, 2007, 08:14:27 PM
How long does blood stay on someones clothes? could one of the McCanns have residual blood from, say a cut from Maddie on their trousers and transferred this to a seat in the car?

Im quite sure thats possible,But 25 days later? I doubt it
Also it could have even been longer than 25 days,because they hired the car 25 days later but who's too say the blood wasn't transferred to the car by whatever means until days or weeks later..How long did they have the car hired for?
I'm quite sure thats impossible , the blood would be fully dyed in within a matter of hours and so their is no way to transfer . Also the ammount of blood your talking about would be so small to be hard to measure on the jeans let alone transfer

Well that was my point too.I meant its quite possible if you are talking minutes or a few hours thats why i said if your talking 25 days later i doubt it
Sorry LL , misread your point .
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: blast05 on September 08, 2007, 10:09:05 PM
Am just after reading the last 5 pages of this thread   ... the whole subject is going round in circles big time imho and the amount of guess work and CSI wannabe comments is gas.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: balladmaker on September 08, 2007, 10:45:21 PM
I'd be very surprised if the police in Portugal have not been bugging the McCann's residence from day one of their enquiry.  I wonder what Kate and Gerry McCann talk about when alone.

Whatever way this turns out, it is going to be a shock to the system.  Either the police have made a massive blunder with this, or maybe they are on the money.  It will all come out in the end.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: balladmaker on September 08, 2007, 10:49:19 PM
A month old, but maybe of interest now:

http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?storyID=8144 (http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?storyID=8144)


Phone intercepts ‘confirm Maddy’s death’
 
 Intercepted telephone calls and emails between the McCanns and their friends have "confirmed the death of Madeleine" say police, according to one Portuguese newspaper today. The intercepts are said to have been made in a joint operation conducted by Portuguese and British police officers.

Diario de Noticias reports investigators have already concluded that the missing four-year-old was killed in the apartment where she slept in Praia da Luz.

It says that Maddy's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann (right), and their friends who were holidaying at the Ocean Club, will be brought in for further questioning. Police are awaiting new tests from the McCanns' Renault Scenic.

According to another paper, Jornal de Noticias, police want to examine inconsistencies in the statements of Kate and Gerry McCann, who were interviewed separately late into the night early on in the investigation. In particular, they want to focus on a three-hour period in which only the McCanns saw Madeleine.

Respected news agency Lusa quotes one police source saying that they think "there's light at the end of the tunnel" and that the authorities have "an idea of what could have happened" to the four-year-old.

Police have known "for a month" that Madeleine had died in the apartment, it is widely reported. The tabloid newspaper 24 Horas says that the police are looking for Madeleine's body in the sea, helped by English sniffer dogs. They have intensified searches around the nearby town of Lagos and along the Algarvian coast, it says.


 
 
 


Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on September 09, 2007, 09:25:09 AM
they are on their way home now, wonder what sort of welcome they will get.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: venter on September 09, 2007, 10:55:28 AM
Quote
The car wasnt rented until 25 days after Maddy was reported missing, how could her blood be found inside the car?

5times, you seem fairly adamant that the parents are guilty. What are your thoughts on the question you pose above?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on September 09, 2007, 06:21:21 PM
5ive Times

Quote
Venter the parents have to be the number 1 suspects, in my opinion their story just doesnt add up....... But for me the main thing is their attitude. The father especially looks suspicious, his body language is all wrong and the mother appears to cower beside him. They havent shown any emotion, not once has their been an emotional appeal for the return of their daughter.

The Sunday Times reported today, in an in depth analysis

Quote
They (the McCanns) were also advised not to betray any emotion when making public appeals for help, which accounts for the even face which Gerry has presented to the media. Jim Gamble, chief executive of the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre, told them that if the abductor was watching he or she might take pleasure in the McCanns' distress

5ive Times wrote,

Quote
The entire media campaign seems to revolve around the parents and the fact that they are upstanding middle class, middle England types, but the media dont seem to be asking the right questions. Even if the child was abducted, they are to blame. They left her and her siblings alone while they went out for the evening.

I'm at a loss to explain the relevance of this - if the whole issue remains in the public eye, then that is surely a good thing, as a four year old child is still missing. What the press asks the McCanns is largely irrelevant, as they can't answer questions related to the investigation.

I have to say, I find the whole thing a total mystery, which is why I would not be anxious to judge. That said, I find it very unsettling that many here are happy to act as judge and jury, particularly as this judgement is on the basis of the McCanns' social class, and not on any concrete facts.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on September 09, 2007, 07:34:24 PM
Quote
I have to say, I find the whole thing a total mystery, which is why I would not be anxious to judge. That said, I find it very unsettling that many here are happy to act as judge and jury, particularly as this judgement is on the basis of the McCanns' social class, and not on any concrete facts.

(Just because you're upper class and posh  :P)

Seriously, what do you mean by that, who is judging them on their class?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on September 09, 2007, 07:44:32 PM
Quote
I have to say, I find the whole thing a total mystery, which is why I would not be anxious to judge. That said, I find it very unsettling that many here are happy to act as judge and jury, particularly as this judgement is on the basis of the McCanns' social class, and not on any concrete facts.

(Just because you're upper class and posh  :P)


 ;D

Quote
I have to say, I find the whole thing a total mystery, which is why I would not be anxious to judge. That said, I find it very unsettling that many here are happy to act as judge and jury, particularly as this judgement is on the basis of the McCanns' social class, and not on any concrete facts.


Seriously, what do you mean by that, who is judging them on their class?

A cursory glance on this thread will see consistent references to their social class or status. This appears to be raised by those who are most conviced of their guilt. There are absolutely no facts in the public domain to indicate their guilt, and given their travel today with the authorities' blessing, I would suggest there is none within the investigation itself.

Now why do people here think they are guilty, without these facts? 
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Uladh on September 09, 2007, 08:52:51 PM

I agree wholeheartedly with you rufus. what evidence is there at all to be convicting them from afar?

what happened to innocent til proven guilty?

whoever suggested that the father looked like a bully and looks as though he beats his wife should be shot with a ball of their own dung.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on September 09, 2007, 09:01:06 PM
Quote
A cursory glance on this thread will see consistent references to their social class or status. This appears to be raised by those who are most conviced of their guilt. There are absolutely no facts in the public domain to indicate their guilt, and given their travel today with the authorities' blessing, I would suggest there is none within the investigation itself.
The references to their class are made by those angry at the attention they are getting when we all know if it was a single mother from housing estate she would be slaughtered by the media.  Can you argue different?

Quote
Now why do people here think they are guilty, without these facts?
Well rufus from day one the case stunk.
The were inaccuracies and inconsistencies in the parent's stories about when they checked on the children and stories told about how they could see the apartment from where they ate when any map or picture shows different.  They also lied about the amount of drink they had.  Of course this may be down to guilt for leaving their children but this is something they've barely expressed and continue to insist they're good parents!
The mother reportedly went to check on the children at 10pm and realising Maddie had gone returned to the restaurant LEAVING THE TWINS ALONE AGAIN! Saying “they've taken her they've taken her”.  They were very keen to insist that the child had been abducted and refused to entertain the notion that she had wandered off.  Wtf?  Would she not entertain the notion that maddie way have wandered off and look for her before running back to the restaurant.  Can anyone tell me when police or anyone else was first contacted? 
They claimed and their family claimed that the shutters had been forced open when staff at the resort say they hadn't.  The police found that the shutter had not been forced form the outside but opened from the inside! Are we expected to believe the intruder opened the shutters from the inside?  No evidence of an intruder was found. 
The twin boys slept through everything, their mothers reaction and the 20 or so people the mccanns took back to the apartment – they were carried out, asleep, by police when they arrived. Amazing!
It was one of their own friends who reported a man taking a child from the apartment, days or even weeks? After the disappearance.  She must have forgot!  That's understandable as they've just recently remembered a friend went to check on the children at half 9. 
Then we've the parent's reaction to the whole thing.  Now apparently they have been told to show no emotion, I don't know why it would matter and, although I'm not a father, I know if it was a niece or nephew missing and some pervert doing God knows what I would not be fit to hold myself together whether police told me to or not. As a father I'm sure you'd be the same.  The McCanns on the other hand deserve Oscars!  But it's not just the lack of emotion, it's the touring around the world, the raising money, have you read Gerry McCann's blog, hardly a mention of Maddie!

None of us have all the evidence but people can and will make judgements. 
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Lecale2 on September 09, 2007, 09:21:25 PM
Food for thought there POG. I have an open mind on the issue but you present some interesting evidence.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Cloc Mor on September 09, 2007, 09:29:26 PM
I initially believed Maddie had been upducted.  The more I see, and the inaccuracies in the stories produced, does lead me to believe that the wee girl is dead and the parent(s) responsible.  Was there something about intercepted emails which also implicated the Mc Canns?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Balboa on September 09, 2007, 09:32:15 PM
The bit that caught my eye was talk of wife swapping between the Mc Canns and their friends.....
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ExiledGael on September 09, 2007, 09:34:16 PM
This is just a horrible story from day one.
Think the haphazard and very confusing Portuguese legal system has led to a lot of the rumours/facts getting out of hand. The police have been far from transparent and the media here and the rest of us are feeding on rumour and contradictory stories to reach our conclusions.
Never blamed the McCanns for their publicity hunt, obviously wanting to keep her image in the spotlight any way possible.
Just can't believe they would have went through all that if they were covering up something.
I realise all the little things that don't quite add up, but I personally blame the other aspects for that, ie the portuguese police, their reluctance (legally) to say nothing on the matter, ever, and simply the distance. It's all happening so far away and we're living off the scraps to try to understand it all.
Think because of the nature of the case it's very unfair to draw conclusions, though it obviously will happen. Was disgusted to hear the mother being booed in the street on TV.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on September 09, 2007, 09:42:32 PM
Quote
A cursory glance on this thread will see consistent references to their social class or status. This appears to be raised by those who are most conviced of their guilt. There are absolutely no facts in the public domain to indicate their guilt, and given their travel today with the authorities' blessing, I would suggest there is none within the investigation itself.
The references to their class are made by those angry at the attention they are getting when we all know if it was a single mother from housing estate she would be slaughtered by the media.  Can you argue different?

Quote
Now why do people here think they are guilty, without these facts?

None of us have all the evidence. 

None of us have any evidence!

Quote
A cursory glance on this thread will see consistent references to their social class or status. This appears to be raised by those who are most conviced of their guilt. There are absolutely no facts in the public domain to indicate their guilt, and given their travel today with the authorities' blessing, I would suggest there is none within the investigation itself.
The references to their class are made by those angry at the attention they are getting when we all know if it was a single mother from housing estate she would be slaughtered by the media.  Can you argue different?

Quote
Now why do people here think they are guilty, without these facts?

people can and will make judgements. 

And without evidence, that is very wrong!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on September 09, 2007, 09:43:32 PM
The police have been far from transparent and the media here and the rest of us are feeding on rumour and contradictory stories to reach our conclusions.

100% correct!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on September 09, 2007, 09:48:08 PM
Rufus we do have some evidence, it may be circumstantial and it most certainly isn't all of the evidence but you can say we shouldn't make judgements with what we got until you're blue in the face, fact is, people will, it's human nature.  I bet you have your own views on what happened, you can't just say, “I haven't all the evidence, I can't make a judgement, and shut your mind.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: The Real Laoislad on September 09, 2007, 10:17:19 PM
Quote
A cursory glance on this thread will see consistent references to their social class or status. This appears to be raised by those who are most conviced of their guilt. There are absolutely no facts in the public domain to indicate their guilt, and given their travel today with the authorities' blessing, I would suggest there is none within the investigation itself.
The references to their class are made by those angry at the attention they are getting when we all know if it was a single mother from housing estate she would be slaughtered by the media.  Can you argue different?

Quote
Now why do people here think they are guilty, without these facts?
Well rufus from day one the case stunk.
The were inaccuracies and inconsistencies in the parent's stories about when they checked on the children and stories told about how they could see the apartment from where they ate when any map or picture shows different.  They also lied about the amount of drink they had.  Of course this may be down to guilt for leaving their children but this is something they've barely expressed and continue to insist they're good parents!
The mother reportedly went to check on the children at 10pm and realising Maddie had gone returned to the restaurant LEAVING THE TWINS ALONE AGAIN! Saying “they've taken her they've taken her”.  They were very keen to insist that the child had been abducted and refused to entertain the notion that she had wandered off.  Wtf?  Would she not entertain the notion that maddie way have wandered off and look for her before running back to the restaurant.  Can anyone tell me when police or anyone else was first contacted? 
They claimed and their family claimed that the shutters had been forced open when staff at the resort say they hadn't.  The police found that the shutter had not been forced form the outside but opened from the inside! Are we expected to believe the intruder opened the shutters from the inside?  No evidence of an intruder was found. 
The twin boys slept through everything, their mothers reaction and the 20 or so people the mccanns took back to the apartment – they were carried out, asleep, by police when they arrived. Amazing!
It was one of their own friends who reported a man taking a child from the apartment, days or even weeks? After the disappearance.  She must have forgot!  That's understandable as they've just recently remembered a friend went to check on the children at half 9. 
Then we've the parent's reaction to the whole thing.  Now apparently they have been told to show no emotion, I don't know why it would matter and, although I'm not a father, I know if it was a niece or nephew missing and some pervert doing God knows what I would not be fit to hold myself together whether police told me to or not. As a father I'm sure you'd be the same.  The McCanns on the other hand deserve Oscars!  But it's not just the lack of emotion, it's the touring around the world, the raising money, have you read Gerry McCann's blog, hardly a mention of Maddie!

None of us have all the evidence but people can and will make judgements. 


Great post POG you put into words exactly what i have been thinking..

Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ONeill on September 09, 2007, 10:24:47 PM
Quote
A cursory glance on this thread will see consistent references to their social class or status. This appears to be raised by those who are most conviced of their guilt. There are absolutely no facts in the public domain to indicate their guilt, and given their travel today with the authorities' blessing, I would suggest there is none within the investigation itself.
The references to their class are made by those angry at the attention they are getting when we all know if it was a single mother from housing estate she would be slaughtered by the media.  Can you argue different?

Quote
Now why do people here think they are guilty, without these facts?
Well rufus from day one the case stunk.
The were inaccuracies and inconsistencies in the parent's stories about when they checked on the children and stories told about how they could see the apartment from where they ate when any map or picture shows different.  They also lied about the amount of drink they had.  Of course this may be down to guilt for leaving their children but this is something they've barely expressed and continue to insist they're good parents!
The mother reportedly went to check on the children at 10pm and realising Maddie had gone returned to the restaurant LEAVING THE TWINS ALONE AGAIN! Saying “they've taken her they've taken her”.  They were very keen to insist that the child had been abducted and refused to entertain the notion that she had wandered off.  Wtf?  Would she not entertain the notion that maddie way have wandered off and look for her before running back to the restaurant.  Can anyone tell me when police or anyone else was first contacted? 
They claimed and their family claimed that the shutters had been forced open when staff at the resort say they hadn't.  The police found that the shutter had not been forced form the outside but opened from the inside! Are we expected to believe the intruder opened the shutters from the inside?  No evidence of an intruder was found. 
The twin boys slept through everything, their mothers reaction and the 20 or so people the mccanns took back to the apartment – they were carried out, asleep, by police when they arrived. Amazing!
It was one of their own friends who reported a man taking a child from the apartment, days or even weeks? After the disappearance.  She must have forgot!  That's understandable as they've just recently remembered a friend went to check on the children at half 9. 
Then we've the parent's reaction to the whole thing.  Now apparently they have been told to show no emotion, I don't know why it would matter and, although I'm not a father, I know if it was a niece or nephew missing and some pervert doing God knows what I would not be fit to hold myself together whether police told me to or not. As a father I'm sure you'd be the same.  The McCanns on the other hand deserve Oscars!  But it's not just the lack of emotion, it's the touring around the world, the raising money, have you read Gerry McCann's blog, hardly a mention of Maddie!

None of us have all the evidence but people can and will make judgements. 

If ever there was an example of the power of the media to brainwash people, this is it. POG has regurgitated random stories reproduced in the Sun/Mirror/Star by journalists with little or no facts. 'Dish Monkeys' they call this type of analyst - someone who deals in the 'it was reported' information, without having the barest fact.

Absolute bullshit, without any weight whatsoever.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: The Real Laoislad on September 09, 2007, 10:27:37 PM
Quote
I have to say, I find the whole thing a total mystery, which is why I would not be anxious to judge. That said, I find it very unsettling that many here are happy to act as judge and jury, particularly as this judgement is on the basis of the McCanns' social class, and not on any concrete facts.

(Just because you're upper class and posh  :P)


 ;D

Quote
I have to say, I find the whole thing a total mystery, which is why I would not be anxious to judge. That said, I find it very unsettling that many here are happy to act as judge and jury, particularly as this judgement is on the basis of the McCanns' social class, and not on any concrete facts.


Seriously, what do you mean by that, who is judging them on their class?

A cursory glance on this thread will see consistent references to their social class or status. This appears to be raised by those who are most conviced of their guilt. There are absolutely no facts in the public domain to indicate their guilt, and given their travel today with the authorities' blessing, I would suggest there is none within the investigation itself.

Now why do people here think they are guilty, without these facts? 


And how can someone say they are not guilty with all the facts that is against them..
I for one said there was something suspicious right from the start and for all the arguments that are in favour of the parents there is just as many that can be used against them.
But i don't think anyone here has already convicted the parents and said yes it was defiantly them,Peoples opinions are changing every day and will continue to do so until this is finally resolved
Yes there is a lot of posters who think they are guilty but i can't remember anyone saying that they 100% believe this to be true because no one could know that as yet.
I think there is alot more twists in this yet,but from my research and from everything i have read and saw on TV i have come to the opinion they are involved someway,But its only a opinion and everyone is going to have different views and opinions on this
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on September 09, 2007, 10:31:04 PM
Rufus we do have some evidence, it may be circumstantial and it most certainly isn't all of the evidence but you can say we shouldn't make judgements with what we got until you're blue in the face, fact is, people will, it's human nature.  I bet you have your own views on what happened, you can't just say, “I haven't all the evidence, I can't make a judgement, and shut your mind.

I genuinely don't know one way or the other - the more I hear, the more I feel bewildered. I feel enormous sympathy for the parents - I have a child of similar age, so the thought of what they are going through - nightmare stuff!

 
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: SuperSub on September 09, 2007, 10:35:12 PM
Quote
A cursory glance on this thread will see consistent references to their social class or status. This appears to be raised by those who are most conviced of their guilt. There are absolutely no facts in the public domain to indicate their guilt, and given their travel today with the authorities' blessing, I would suggest there is none within the investigation itself.
The references to their class are made by those angry at the attention they are getting when we all know if it was a single mother from housing estate she would be slaughtered by the media.  Can you argue different?

Quote
Now why do people here think they are guilty, without these facts?
Well rufus from day one the case stunk.
The were inaccuracies and inconsistencies in the parent's stories about when they checked on the children and stories told about how they could see the apartment from where they ate when any map or picture shows different.  They also lied about the amount of drink they had.  Of course this may be down to guilt for leaving their children but this is something they've barely expressed and continue to insist they're good parents!
The mother reportedly went to check on the children at 10pm and realising Maddie had gone returned to the restaurant LEAVING THE TWINS ALONE AGAIN! Saying “they've taken her they've taken her”.  They were very keen to insist that the child had been abducted and refused to entertain the notion that she had wandered off.  Wtf?  Would she not entertain the notion that maddie way have wandered off and look for her before running back to the restaurant.  Can anyone tell me when police or anyone else was first contacted? 
They claimed and their family claimed that the shutters had been forced open when staff at the resort say they hadn't.  The police found that the shutter had not been forced form the outside but opened from the inside! Are we expected to believe the intruder opened the shutters from the inside?  No evidence of an intruder was found. 
The twin boys slept through everything, their mothers reaction and the 20 or so people the mccanns took back to the apartment – they were carried out, asleep, by police when they arrived. Amazing!
It was one of their own friends who reported a man taking a child from the apartment, days or even weeks? After the disappearance.  She must have forgot!  That's understandable as they've just recently remembered a friend went to check on the children at half 9. 
Then we've the parent's reaction to the whole thing.  Now apparently they have been told to show no emotion, I don't know why it would matter and, although I'm not a father, I know if it was a niece or nephew missing and some pervert doing God knows what I would not be fit to hold myself together whether police told me to or not. As a father I'm sure you'd be the same.  The McCanns on the other hand deserve Oscars!  But it's not just the lack of emotion, it's the touring around the world, the raising money, have you read Gerry McCann's blog, hardly a mention of Maddie!

None of us have all the evidence but people can and will make judgements. 

If ever there was an example of the power of the media to brainwash people, this is it. POG has regurgitated random stories reproduced in the Sun/Mirror/Star by journalists with little or no facts. 'Dish Monkeys' they call this type of analyst - someone who deals in the 'it was reported' information, without having the barest fact.

Absolute bullshit, without any weight whatsoever.


I think your talking bullshit O'Neill..POG hasn't just pulled random stories from rag mags and try to pawn it off as real evidence...What he has posted is quite true
It obvious you don't think the McCanns are guilty but you shouldn't just dismiss someone else's opinion and facts that are there for all to see..
You could just as easily post all the facts in favour of the McCanns but you also would  be just repeating what you read or saw on TV

Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on September 09, 2007, 10:36:54 PM
Oh don't worry about O'Neill, he's not to be taken seriously.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ONeill on September 09, 2007, 10:37:47 PM
No, actually I don't. I deal with what I hear said. POG stated:

The were inaccuracies and inconsistencies in the parent's stories about when they checked on the children and stories told about how they could see the apartment from where they ate when any map or picture shows different.  They also lied about the amount of drink they had.

OK, let's start here. Where can you, or anyone, find this? (i.e. where you saw the McCann say this?)
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Tyrone lady on September 09, 2007, 10:38:45 PM
with all what facts against them Laois lad, remind us of these facts here please? And you may find reading every single one of pint of gs post that he is judge and jury, he has them convicted already, due to all these facts ??? the media have told him.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on September 09, 2007, 10:40:57 PM
Quote
I have to say, I find the whole thing a total mystery, which is why I would not be anxious to judge. That said, I find it very unsettling that many here are happy to act as judge and jury, particularly as this judgement is on the basis of the McCanns' social class, and not on any concrete facts.

(Just because you're upper class and posh  :P)


 ;D

Quote
I have to say, I find the whole thing a total mystery, which is why I would not be anxious to judge. That said, I find it very unsettling that many here are happy to act as judge and jury, particularly as this judgement is on the basis of the McCanns' social class, and not on any concrete facts.


Seriously, what do you mean by that, who is judging them on their class?

A cursory glance on this thread will see consistent references to their social class or status. This appears to be raised by those who are most conviced of their guilt. There are absolutely no facts in the public domain to indicate their guilt, and given their travel today with the authorities' blessing, I would suggest there is none within the investigation itself.

Now why do people here think they are guilty, without these facts? 


And how can someone say they are not guilty with all the facts that is against them..
I for one said there was something suspicious right from the start and for all the arguments that are in favour of the parents there is just as many that can be used against them.
But i don't think anyone here has already convicted the parents and said yes it was defiantly them,Peoples opinions are changing every day and will continue to do so until this is finally resolved
Yes there is a lot of posters who think they are guilty but i can't remember anyone saying that they 100% believe this to be true because no one could know that as yet.
I think there is alot more twists in this yet,but from my research and from everything i have read and saw on TV i have come to the opinion they are involved someway,But its only a opinion and everyone is going to have different views and opinions on this

Sorry Laoislad - you lost me totally there - what I would ask though is for you to list the 'facts' that are against the McCanns here - and by facts against the McCanns, I mean evidence that they have malevolently had something to do with the child's disappearance/death.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ONeill on September 09, 2007, 10:42:38 PM
And when you're finished, take the next sentence:

The mother reportedly went to check on the children at 10pm and realising Maddie had gone returned to the restaurant LEAVING THE TWINS ALONE AGAIN! Saying “they've taken her they've taken her”.


Find this? POG says she said this, 'reportedly'!

This just sums up how the British way of swallowing what the media pass off as stories has spread to this island.

You only have to think about another of POG's statements to see how he deals in falsities - The twin boys slept through everything
!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on September 09, 2007, 10:44:35 PM
with all what facts against them Laois lad, remind us of these facts here please? And you may find reading every single one of pint of gs post that he is judge and jury, he has them convicted already, due to all these facts ??? the media have told him.
Actually I don't have them convicted.  I do suspect them but I will still be shocked if it turns out to be them.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ONeill on September 09, 2007, 10:47:54 PM
I do suspect them but I will still be shocked if it turns out to be them.

Jaysus - it's gets worse.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: The Real Laoislad on September 09, 2007, 10:57:45 PM
with all what facts against them Laois lad, remind us of these facts here please? And you may find reading every single one of pint of gs post that he is judge and jury, he has them convicted already, due to all these facts ??? the media have told him.


Sure the blood in the car got there all by itself....
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Tyrone lady on September 09, 2007, 11:02:38 PM
This is apparently all being further tested to determine the exact nature of what was found. So ur saying that they can be found guilty with all these facts then when asked to present them thats what you come up with??? Strange how you can find them guilty with all these facts but the portguese police havnt nor the public prosecutor for the country. I take it ur well in with the whole investigation to get all these facts, maybe u would share them with us sometime.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: muppet on September 09, 2007, 11:07:59 PM
Circumstantial evidence convicted Rachel O'Reilly's husband. His mobile phone was used to contradict his alibi.

I don't know whether circumstantial evidence can be used as a basis for a case in Portugal but either way they would not want to be proved as having lied about that night.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ONeill on September 09, 2007, 11:15:23 PM
Circumstantial evidence convicted Rachel O'Reilly's husband. His mobile phone was used to contradict his alibi.

I don't know whether circumstantial evidence can be used as a basis for a case in Portugal but either way they would not want to be proved as having lied about that night.

That's the big one, Muppet. There is a strong possibility, in order to dampen the outrage at their perceived neglect, that they underplayed times/routine etc out of sheer pride and arrogance when first questioned. A lot of us do that. When the actual truth is discovered, be it a matter of 30 -40 mins, the police will start the alarm bells.

A sweeping statement, but two things about doctors, esp English doctors (having had experience - as you have I think - from living over there). Firstly, they can be incredibly arrogant. Secondly, they can be extremely cold in nature and demeanour (something that seems to be a side effect from their career). Both of these characteristics do not endear them to the police and public.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: SuperSub on September 09, 2007, 11:26:51 PM
This is apparently all being further tested to determine the exact nature of what was found. So ur saying that they can be found guilty with all these facts then when asked to present them thats what you come up with??? Strange how you can find them guilty with all these facts but the portguese police havnt nor the public prosecutor for the country. I take it ur well in with the whole investigation to get all these facts, maybe u would share them with us sometime.


And what are your reasons for thinking they are innocent.....That you can't believe anyone could do that to a child...Wow that will really stand up in a court
Everyone is entitled to a opinion and there is enough there to say they are guilty..But then again you believe the Portugese Police are trying to put a end to this case and are making all this up...

Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: SuperSub on September 09, 2007, 11:28:06 PM
Circumstantial evidence convicted Rachel O'Reilly's husband. His mobile phone was used to contradict his alibi.

I don't know whether circumstantial evidence can be used as a basis for a case in Portugal but either way they would not want to be proved as having lied about that night.

That's the big one, Muppet. There is a strong possibility, in order to dampen the outrage at their perceived neglect, that they underplayed times/routine etc out of sheer pride and arrogance when first questioned. A lot of us do that. When the actual truth is discovered, be it a matter of 30 -40 mins, the police will start the alarm bells.

A sweeping statement, but two things about doctors, esp English doctors (having had experience - as you have I think - from living over there). Firstly, they can be incredibly arrogant. Secondly, they can be extremely cold in nature and demeanour (something that seems to be a side effect from their career). Both of these characteristics do not endear them to the police and public.


You would think the loss of a child would bring emotion from even the coldest of hearts??
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: blast05 on September 09, 2007, 11:29:21 PM
Quote
There is a strong possibility, in order to dampen the outrage at their perceived neglect, that they underplayed times/routine etc out of sheer pride and arrogance when first questioned.

On the one hand you give out to POG for presenting 'reported' stories, theories, possibilities, etc and then you come out with the above ......   ::)
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on September 09, 2007, 11:42:38 PM
right, can anyone here post the facts of the case so far? no speculation, just hard facts, there seems to be very little evidence in the public domain, just paper speculation
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: The Real Laoislad on September 09, 2007, 11:47:29 PM
This is apparently all being further tested to determine the exact nature of what was found. So ur saying that they can be found guilty with all these facts then when asked to present them thats what you come up with??? Strange how you can find them guilty with all these facts but the portguese police havnt nor the public prosecutor for the country. I take it ur well in with the whole investigation to get all these facts, maybe u would share them with us sometime.


I never said i 100% think they are guilty i certainly have not locked them up and thrown away the key..I have stated right from the start that i think something is not  right about the McCanns and i still believe that until they are found completely innocent of all wrong doing
There is enough facts(blood in car) and evidence and irregularities in their stories there to make me have this opinion and the Police having them named as suspects only strengthens this opinion of mine..
If it turns out the blood i the car is nothing then i will consider the case again.
And for all your talk that POG myself and a few others already have them found guilty you seem to be 100% sure they are innocent..Care to tell us why?
And also it's a ridiculous to dismiss someone else's opinion by saying we are believing what we read in the papers because no matter what your opinion on this case everyones views will be shaped by what they read or see on the TV because they are our sources of information and we take what we will from that to form our own opinions
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: SuperSub on September 09, 2007, 11:54:03 PM
right, can anyone here post the facts of the case so far? no speculation, just hard facts, there seems to be very little evidence in the public domain, just paper speculation


FACT....The Police believe they had some involvement in this otherwise they would not have risked their reputation by bringing them in and naming them suspects
FACT....Maddies blood was  found in a rental car that was rented by the McCanns 25 days after Maddie went missing
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ONeill on September 09, 2007, 11:56:26 PM
Quote
There is a strong possibility, in order to dampen the outrage at their perceived neglect, that they underplayed times/routine etc out of sheer pride and arrogance when first questioned.

On the one hand you give out to POG for presenting 'reported' stories, theories, possibilities, etc and then you come out with the above ......   ::)

Where did I say this was reported? This is a possibility, nothing more, nothing less. However, I'd never claim it was said, written or reported. Explain where I said this was something reported or something I believe in?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ONeill on September 10, 2007, 12:03:58 AM
Circumstantial evidence convicted Rachel O'Reilly's husband. His mobile phone was used to contradict his alibi.

I don't know whether circumstantial evidence can be used as a basis for a case in Portugal but either way they would not want to be proved as having lied about that night.

That's the big one, Muppet. There is a strong possibility, in order to dampen the outrage at their perceived neglect, that they underplayed times/routine etc out of sheer pride and arrogance when first questioned. A lot of us do that. When the actual truth is discovered, be it a matter of 30 -40 mins, the police will start the alarm bells.

A sweeping statement, but two things about doctors, esp English doctors (having had experience - as you have I think - from living over there). Firstly, they can be incredibly arrogant. Secondly, they can be extremely cold in nature and demeanour (something that seems to be a side effect from their career). Both of these characteristics do not endear them to the police and public.


You would think the loss of a child would bring emotion from even the coldest of hearts??

Yes. However, do you know what anguish and emotion they're experiencing behind the scenes? Are you basing this on arranged media Q&A?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: SuperSub on September 10, 2007, 12:25:38 AM
Quote
There is a strong possibility, in order to dampen the outrage at their perceived neglect, that they underplayed times/routine etc out of sheer pride and arrogance when first questioned.

On the one hand you give out to POG for presenting 'reported' stories, theories, possibilities, etc and then you come out with the above ......   ::)

Where did I say this was reported? This is a possibility, nothing more, nothing less. However, I'd never claim it was said, written or reported. Explain where I said this was something reported or something I believe in?


But surely everyones opinions are a possibilty,But your very quick to dismiss them because you think they are being brain washed by the media,But yet its ok for you to give a opinion that also may or may not be true.
Just because you don't agree with everyone it us very unfair to say that you think posters are being led by the media give people more credit.
What makes you so sure they are innocent?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Smokin Joe on September 10, 2007, 06:59:41 AM
Not my own work but I agree with the most of it:

Firstly, the plane landed back in the UK this afternoon and the first people off were a fully-tooled up film crew.

The footage was from a camera that was airside.

This is in a country who will make you drink your child's baby milk because they don't trust you as a passenger to not hide a bomb or a knife in it but will let a film crew through? Ossie's back from beyond the grave with an anniversary message but hasn't considered that rather than use box cutters and shoe explosives, you can just fill a camera with Semtex and hide a gun in a fluffy mike. "War on terror (Press excepted)" it seems.

Take pictures like that at a Greek airport and see the outrage you cause... EasyJet are very generous with their hand luggage allowance, it seems.

Secondly, had I been on that plane I'd have lamped any cameraman who filmed me descending from the plane as a private citizen, more so if I'd have had my nippers with me. Even if you are allowed to conduct your f**king circus (see above) I'm not a part of it and you can turn it off or I'll turn it off for you. I'm not as a rule a violent man but I can be goaded.

Thirdly, the request for privacy. Given the cottage industry that the friends and family have generated aside from the European Tour, this is a bit rich having all but arranged for the uninvolved to be plastered over the BBC while carrying their donkey souvenirs.

I'd have tried to have been first off the plane, f**k the statement and gone through normal baggage control with a car waiting out front. I'm a private citizen and I've done nothing wrong. Get out the way.

Mind you, I don't have a lot of time for the press. Today to me amply demonstrated why. They believe the world owes them an explanation and it might when it's the leader of the free western world explaining why he's dropping bombs on Baghdad, but two people from Leicester whose daughter is missing and who everyone knows cannot now reveal any details? Bollocks.

Fourthly, as Robert Murat was not quite a suspect as an arguido but the McCanns are, has Portuguese law changed recently? And if all three are, is it for abduction, murder, both or neither?

Fifthly, does a 25 day old corpse still have blood about it? And who had the car 25 days previously?

The reporting is sloppy, the slant is still (even from the Home Secretary) that Portugal is a wonderfully backward country and when they ask, we'll sort it out for them and frankly, it's not even a story any more. the missing child has become unimportant to the press - it might as well be "What Kate and Gerry did next". Madeleine McCann lost her surname after about a fortnight and the press worked off the brief then that she was dead but wouldn't dare say it. Now they don't even bother as it's considered a given.

Who are the biggest manipulators? Not the McCanns. The press do it, have done it for so long that it would take a real master to outdo them. The world has yet to produce such a being.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ONeill on September 10, 2007, 07:22:06 AM
Quote
There is a strong possibility, in order to dampen the outrage at their perceived neglect, that they underplayed times/routine etc out of sheer pride and arrogance when first questioned.

On the one hand you give out to POG for presenting 'reported' stories, theories, possibilities, etc and then you come out with the above ......   ::)

Where did I say this was reported? This is a possibility, nothing more, nothing less. However, I'd never claim it was said, written or reported. Explain where I said this was something reported or something I believe in?


But surely everyones opinions are a possibilty,But your very quick to dismiss them because you think they are being brain washed by the media,But yet its ok for you to give a opinion that also may or may not be true.
Just because you don't agree with everyone it us very unfair to say that you think posters are being led by the media give people more credit.
What makes you so sure they are innocent?

I wouldn't lambaste anyone's opinions. It's when people start to say 'this happened' or was 'reported' that things become annoying and childish. If you can pinpoint where i dismissed an opinion, I'll accept it. I simply detest the way some take tabloid gossip as gospel.

As for their innocence - if there was a pendulum for my thinking, it would sway from innocence to not sure. My feeling is that they couldn't have kept this quiet for so long, as a number of people would need to have been involved. However, anything's possible.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Tyrone lady on September 10, 2007, 10:50:36 AM
I do not believe 100% they are innocent , as i dont know. I dont think they did it and please stop sayin that i base my judgements simply on the fact that people wouldnt do this to a child. I am neither stupid or naieve and please dont speak to me as such. I believe for several reasons they didnt do it, as i dont see how they could have hidden the body in an area they arent sure of, how it wouldnt have smelled and been found, how they would have had the opportunity to move it without somoene else help, and if they had have had someone elses help i doubt it would have been kept secret and also the fact that these people arent stupid. Would they really think they could get away with it, very few get away with murder these days and why would they be that stupid to think they would get away with it. Anyway these are all only my opinions, i dont have any facts to say they defnitely did do it, nor do i have facts to say they defnitely didnt do it. As several people said previously in the world we live in today anything is possible, even the most unlikely of scenarios. We may never know exactly what has happened
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: maxpower on September 10, 2007, 11:04:36 AM
like O'Neill my opinion on the events sways from believing they are innocent to not being sure at all, and it is largely based on what i read, what else could it be as i have no insider knowledge fo the case.

I would seriously question the ability of Kate and Gerry McCann to carry out so many media appearances, meeting the pope etc if they where carrying the burden of accidential death on their shoulder and the serious guilt of not even giving there wee girl a decent burial

With the constant media scum surrounding them how to they hide a body for 25 days and then move it?

WOuld there be blood on a corpse after 25 days, again an expert on the radio says no?

would there be blood at all in an overdose case?

Why did the police accuse Gerry of overdosing the child and Kate of an act of aggression?

How many millions has that area lost, and continuing to lose in tourism while this case rumbles on unsolved?

At the minute i'm unsure what has happened, the McCanns are certainly not blame free in any possible scenario but i don't think they are as guilty as has been made out lately.  i certainly hope not
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Wee Roddy on September 10, 2007, 11:26:38 AM
Supersub, where is it fact that Maddies blood was found in the car? Anyone who understands DNA knows that this is not infact true. The DNA could equally have come from the hair of one of the twins. If the police were sure it was Maddies blood the McCanns would not be back in England!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: blast05 on September 10, 2007, 11:37:41 AM
Quote
Where did I say this was reported? This is a possibility, nothing more, nothing less

Quote
It's when people start to say 'this happened' or was 'reported' that things become annoying and childish.

So am i to take it from all this that anything that is reported in the press is an impossibility in your opinion whereas your stated opinions are possibilities ?
I think we are all aware there is very little hard evidence in this case and that 99% of the stuff that is reported in the press regarding this case is a possibility based on the opinion of the reporter (regardless of whether there is an unofficial source or not) and that a lot of it is untrue. This is the same as you presenting your opinions. They are as you say, possibilities.
So how you can take some high moral ground here and rubbish anyone who repeats the possibilities as presented by reporters and then come out with your own 'possibilities' in almost the same breath ?!!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: TractorTom on September 10, 2007, 11:46:32 AM
It's just a point of order folks but it may be an important one. Repeatedly people here are mentioning the presence of the missing child's blood in the boot of the hire car. It was bodily fluid which was discovered, it is possible therefore that it was not blood.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Wee Roddy on September 10, 2007, 11:52:59 AM
My point exactly Tractortom. People watch CSI Miami and they think that DNA is the real deal but it is not. The Birmingham Six were convicted because DNA samples "proved" that they had handled explosives. It was proved later that they may have handles explosive.....or playing cards and many other things that have a similar makeup.

Everyone has there thought but i think that someone close to the McCann's will eventually be caught.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ONeill on September 10, 2007, 12:01:03 PM
Quote
Where did I say this was reported? This is a possibility, nothing more, nothing less

Quote
It's when people start to say 'this happened' or was 'reported' that things become annoying and childish.

So am i to take it from all this that anything that is reported in the press is an impossibility in your opinion whereas your stated opinions are possibilities ?
I think we are all aware there is very little hard evidence in this case and that 99% of the stuff that is reported in the press regarding this case is a possibility based on the opinion of the reporter (regardless of whether there is an unofficial source or not) and that a lot of it is untrue. This is the same as you presenting your opinions. They are as you say, possibilities.
So how you can take some high moral ground here and rubbish anyone who repeats the possibilities as presented by reporters and then come out with your own 'possibilities' in almost the same breath ?!!

Simple really. Some are taking what a reporter writes as 'fact'.

Here are some of POG's facts -

The were inaccuracies and inconsistencies in the parent's stories;
They also lied about the amount of drink they had;
realising Maddie had gone returned to the restaurant LEAVING THE TWINS ALONE AGAIN! Saying “they've taken her they've taken her”;
The twin boys slept through everything, their mothers reaction and the 20 or so people the mccanns took back to the apartment – they were carried out, asleep, by police when they arrived;

Where's the evidence for this? These are not opinions...these have been used on this board as fact. That's the difference. Understand now?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: blast05 on September 10, 2007, 12:14:41 PM
Fair enough, although i as per many other i am sure, didn't interpret POG's comments as facts, mere very strong possibilities ..... and the reason i would consider them as such is that presuming they were lies, then the McCann media machine would have denied them all a long time ago.
BTW, i trust you were not trying to be condescending with your comment "Understand now?"   :-\
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Pietas on September 10, 2007, 12:40:06 PM
Fair enough, although i as per many other i am sure, didn't interpret POG's comments as facts, mere very strong possibilities ..... and the reason i would consider them as such is that presuming they were lies, then the McCann media machine would have denied them all a long time ago.
BTW, i trust you were not trying to be condescending with your comment "Understand now?"   :-\

As selfish as it sounds, i'm pig sick of this case being used by the media to fill column inches and air time during the silly season.

To my eyes, the McCann's campaign to find their daughter has the fingerprints of a slick pr company all over it, with sporadic attacks on the Portugese police for good measure.  Is it any wonder, therefore, that they are now 'suspects' in the investigation?

For what it's worth, I don't think they did it, but they have been guilty of extreme niavety in thinking that their own obviously tardy behaviour in minding their kids (sedatives?) could be glossed over by a campaign aimed perhaps more at generating sympathy than getting to the bottom of what happend to the kid.

The 'Find Madeleine' campaign was based on a presumption she was there to be found.  The history of such cases unfortunately leads us to believe that such abductees are dead within a very short space of time.  Resources have been expended on a wild goose chase, while the person(s) responsible are still at large.

Had Madeleine McCann been from a run down council estate, and her parents in the pub next door, the tabloids would have dubbed the 'Britiain's most evil parents' or somesuch and they would be in hiding now. guilty or innocent.

Making monkeys out of the Portugese police was a very bad idea and was always going to lead to trouble.  Sky and other news organisations claiming that Portugal was rife with paedophiles when Mediterraneans refer to it as 'The English Disease' was ignorant in the extreme.

Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on September 10, 2007, 01:54:07 PM
the latest from thr BBC, this will answer a few of the questions raised

Prosecutor reviews Madeleine case 
 
The family arrived at their home together on Sunday
Police papers detailing the inquiry into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann are expected to be passed to the public prosecutor in Portugal later.
All the police's information will be reviewed, three days after her parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, of Rothley, Leics, were named as formal suspects.

A review is standard practice in Portugal when there has been such a development, BBC correspondents say.

Madeleine, four, was last seen in the McCanns' Algarve apartment on 3 May.

Mr and Mrs McCann, both 39, returned to the UK on Sunday, but can be recalled to Portugal with five days' notice.

Further results

They are being advised by London-based lawyers Michael Caplan QC and Angus McBride.

Mr Caplan acted for former Chilean dictator General Augusto Pinochet when Spain attempted to extradite him from the UK in 1999.

  [Kate and Gerry] had a decent night's sleep and the twins slept soundly. They're holding up extremely well

Brian Kennedy

Mrs McCann's uncle, Brian Kennedy, gave a statement on Monday in which he said the couple had received many messages of support.

"They're fine. They had a decent night's sleep and the twins slept soundly. They're holding up extremely well."

He added that the couple would not be going back to work immediately - both are doctors - but would try to lead "as normal an existence as possible".

BBC correspondent Alison Roberts said the passing over of the police papers to the public prosecutor is a normal practice, in which the prosecutor will undertake a review of the investigation so far, including the statements given by the McCanns last week.

 


Statement in full
Emotional homecoming
In Pictures: McCanns return 

"It seems unlikely, given this development, that the investigation will go beyond the normal eight months for a Portuguese inquiry," she said.

Under the Portuguese legal system, police have eight months to investigate a case before requiring permission to continue their inquiries.

Media reports, unconfirmed by police, have said that Portuguese officers have been preparing to make searches.

They are still awaiting further results from forensic tests carried out in the UK on samples taken from the McCanns' apartment in Praia da Luz and at least one vehicle used by the family and their friends.

Partial results from these tests triggered a series of events which led to the McCanns being declared formal suspects, or "arguidos".

No bail conditions, travel restrictions or charges have been imposed on the couple, who were questioned separately for more than 24 hours last week.

 ARGUIDO/ARGUIDA STATUS
Officially a suspect
Bestowed by police or requested by individual
Right to remain silent
Right to a lawyer

After the family arrived at East Midlands Airport on Sunday, an emotional Mr McCann said they had returned for the sake of their two-year-old twins, Amelie and Sean, and he appealed for their privacy to be respected.

He said neither he nor his wife had played any part in the disappearance of their "lovely daughter".

Journalists from across the world have been camped out in their village since their return.

The couple told Sunday newspapers that they believed Portuguese police were trying to frame them and had put Mrs McCann under pressure to confess that she killed her daughter by accident.

'Cross-contamination'

During an 11-hour interview, detectives suggested to Mrs McCann that traces of Madeleine's blood had been found in the family's hire car, she said.

The family say this is impossible as they did not rent the vehicle until 25 days after Madeleine disappeared.

Allan Scott, a lecturer at the University of Central Lancashire's School of Forensic and Investigative Sciences, said cross-contamination needed to be considered.

He said "secondary transfer" of Madeleine's DNA may have occurred and that DNA is "so sensitive" that if two people met in the street and shook hands and then one committed a crime, they could possibly leave the other person's DNA at the scene.





 
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Balboa on September 10, 2007, 02:01:33 PM
Can we expect a flat out media campaign now that they are back in the UK? & has Max Clifford got the call yet?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Mentalman on September 10, 2007, 05:25:37 PM
My point exactly Tractortom. People watch CSI Miami and they think that DNA is the real deal but it is not. The Birmingham Six were convicted because DNA samples "proved" that they had handled explosives. It was proved later that they may have handles explosive.....or playing cards and many other things that have a similar makeup.

Everyone has there thought but i think that someone close to the McCann's will eventually be caught.

Sorry Wee Roddy going to have pull you there, the Birmingham six case involved no DNA, to be fair it wasn't in use at the time, I'm not even sure the technology had advanced as far as practical applications. The B6 case involved the Griess test, which detects the presence of nitrite, commonly used in explosives, but also many other common things. In the B6 case, the strength of the readings reported by Skuse were recorded "in error", meaning the source of nitrate could have been of a far lesser grade, found in completely innocent objects like playing cards. If you're saying that the Geiss test was thought in it's day to be the equivalent of modern DNA testing then I get your train of thought, but DNA evidence is far far stronger to be fair. As for the larger point, DNA evidence can be transferred fairly easily, but the source of the DNA (blood/siliva/skin cells) is important, however there must have been a quaintity high enough to measure weeks after the event? In any event DNA of it's slef shouldn't be the single basis for a case, the same as purely circumstantioal evidence should never be. But if the two start coming together, things look a bit more suspicious.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on September 10, 2007, 06:08:37 PM
wee roddy
Quote
Supersub, where is it fact that Maddies blood was found in the car? Anyone who understands DNA knows that this is not infact true. The DNA could equally have come from the hair of one of the twins.
No wee roddy, DNA is unique (like a fingerprint), Maddie's DNA could only come from her.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Sandy Hill on September 10, 2007, 07:00:39 PM
From today's "Timesonline"

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2422967.ece?token=null&offset=0
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on September 10, 2007, 07:19:10 PM
Quote
Mrs McCann is reported to have explained that in her work as locum GP she came into contact with six corpses in the weeks leading up to Algarve holiday.

This seems a high number for a locum GP working just a couple of days a week but would be easy to check against surgery records.

That's ridiculous. 
I thought I read that for the dogs to pick up on a scent the corpse would need to be there for over a hour and half. 
There is no way a GP would be with a corpse for that length of time.  A GPs only role with a dead person is to declare death has taken place. 6 does seem an awful high number but surely she would know not to lie about that.

The points raised in that article have been raised a lot by The Times, I've made some of the same points in my earlier post.   
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on September 10, 2007, 08:08:14 PM
are people convinced that maddie is dead, or are they hoping that she has been abducted and is still alive somewhere, or is it a heart ruling the head scenario?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: The Real Laoislad on September 10, 2007, 08:22:11 PM
are people convinced that maddie is dead, or are they hoping that she has been abducted and is still alive somewhere, or is it a heart ruling the head scenario?


Of course everyone is hoping she is found alive,I doubt anyone wants to say I told you so if she is found dead or if the parents are found to have done any wrong doing.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ExiledGael on September 10, 2007, 08:25:57 PM
I actually can't believe the amount of people now coming out with 'ah I told you so/knew from the start the parents were guilty in all this', with some sort of pride that they were right!!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Balboa on September 10, 2007, 08:39:03 PM
I havent read every post but this is the latest on Sky News.



More from Sky News on Channel 501
'Police Match Madeleine DNA To Hire Car'
Updated: 20:26, Monday September 10, 2007

Portuguese police say they have found firm DNA evidence that the body of Madeleine McCann was in the boot of the family's hire car five weeks after she went missing, sources have told Sky News.
 
Kate McCann leaves PortimaoSky crime correspondent Martin Brunt, speaking from Portimao, said police were "adamant" they had found the most "damning" evidence yet implicating either one or both of the McCanns in their daughter's death.

The evidence came in blood samples returned from the Forensic Science Service in Birmingham.

"Police say it is the most damning evidence that has been returned by the tests," Brunt said.

"It shows, as far as they are concerned, the presence of Madeleine's body in the car five weeks after she disappeared."

He continued: "The evidence suggests very strongly that it was not that her DNA had been transferred from clothing or from a cuddly toy.

"The allegation is that the DNA shows a full match of 99%. According to police, it shows the presence of Madeleine's body in the boot of the family's hire car five weeks after she disappeared."

 
A policeman delivers flowers to the McCannsHe said the sample of blood sent to the Forensic Science Service in Birmingham carried three matches of Madeleine's DNA.

Two were partial matches that came from the car and the windowsill of the family's holiday apartment.

The third was the full match from the boot of the car.

Meanwhile, papers outlining any evidence against Gerry and Kate McCann will be passed to the Public Prosecutor in Portugal, probably on Tuesday.

With the couple back in their home in Rothley, Leicestershire, the prosecutor will consider whether to lay any charges.

He will be considering the circumstances surrounding Madeleine's disappearance on May 3, Portuguese police spokesman Olegario Sousa added.

Brunt said the prosecutor had a number of options and may call for more evidence or advise on the investigation.

 
McCanns deny harming their childFamily spokesman Brian Kennedy, who is Madeleine's great uncle, said of the family: "They are holding up extremely well."

The Portimao-based prosecutor, Jose Cunha de Magalhaes e Meneses, will look at the DNA evidence as well as the statements given by the McCanns to see if there is a case against the couple.

Chief Inspector Sousa said Portuguese police decided to pass the file on to the prosecutor despite not having all the results from forensic tests being carried out in Birmingham.

The samples were taken from the McCanns' holiday apartment and hire car.

The McCanns have been told they could be called back to Portugal "at any time".

Under Portuguese law the couple could keep their arguido - suspect - status for up to eight months, although the prosecutor could decide to extend that to a year.

Portuguese detectives appear to be working on the theory that Mrs McCann killed her daughter by accident and covered up the death by claiming she was abducted.

According to reports in Portugal, police are to make new searches as part of the investigation.



Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Aristotle Flynn on September 10, 2007, 09:14:45 PM
University of Central Lancashire - that well known internationally respected school of learning.  ???
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on September 10, 2007, 09:37:14 PM
I actually can't believe the amount of people now coming out with 'ah I told you so/knew from the start the parents were guilty in all this', with some sort of pride that they were right!!
From day one the people who have criticised and suspected the parents have been accused of everything including hoping the child turned up dead.  Your allegation, although nothing new, is sick too.

Quote
Portuguese police say they have found firm DNA evidence that the body of Madeleine McCann was in the boot of the family's hire car five weeks after she went missing, sources have told Sky News.
 
Kate McCann leaves PortimaoSky crime correspondent Martin Brunt, speaking from Portimao, said police were "adamant" they had found the most "damning" evidence yet implicating either one or both of the McCanns in their daughter's death.

The evidence came in blood samples returned from the Forensic Science Service in Birmingham.

"Police say it is the most damning evidence that has been returned by the tests," Brunt said.

"It shows, as far as they are concerned, the presence of Madeleine's body in the car five weeks after she disappeared."

He continued: "The evidence suggests very strongly that it was not that her DNA had been transferred from clothing or from a cuddly toy.

"The allegation is that the DNA shows a full match of 99%. According to police, it shows the presence of Madeleine's body in the boot of the family's hire car five weeks after she disappeared."
Quite shocking. 
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: cross4capital on September 10, 2007, 11:28:41 PM
it doesnt look good, id say theres a good chance the wife killed her and the husband is helpin her cover it up, i mean look at her face she looks evil.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ziggysego on September 10, 2007, 11:37:37 PM
Cross, there's no need for comments like that.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: cross4capital on September 10, 2007, 11:54:28 PM
i cant express an opinion ziggy? get over yourself.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Orior on September 11, 2007, 12:11:01 AM
It dosnt look good for the McCanns.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/World/DNA-in-car-matches-Madeline-report/2007/09/10/1189276640387.html (http://www.theage.com.au/news/World/DNA-in-car-matches-Madeline-report/2007/09/10/1189276640387.html)


Whoops - didnt see the previous page
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: J70 on September 11, 2007, 01:27:43 AM
it doesnt look good, id say theres a good chance the wife killed her and the husband is helpin her cover it up, i mean look at her face she looks evil.

She looks "evil"?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: muppet on September 11, 2007, 01:40:39 AM
This case is a dream for the media and a nightmare for everyone else.

Any paper or TV News Station can get huge mileage out of 'the DNA in the car could have come from the teddy'. However it is reasonable to assume that anyone with the expertise to find, examine and positively identify the DNA of a missing child might possibly be able to think of that too. ::) I think we can take it anyone analysing DNA is pretty much an expert. Even if they were stupid foreign non-British people.

It still doesn't prove anything but the automatic media response of 'the police must be stupid over there' is beginning to annoy me and I admit turning my opinion (which of course is ludicrous). 
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Yer Ma on September 11, 2007, 09:25:36 AM
IF (and it still is an if) it turns out that Maddy's parents were indeed involved in her death I'll be interested in seeing how the British press changes tack. For the past weeks we have been bombarded with headlines and stories of a 'how dare they even question Gerry and Kate' nature. While the Portuguese police have been dodgy to say the least, who are the papers to say who is guilty of what?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Star Spangler on September 11, 2007, 09:45:31 AM
Why did the police look for DNA in the car 25 days after Maddie disappeared?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: A Quinn Martin Production on September 11, 2007, 09:52:33 AM
Now I'm no expert on DNA or statistics but it's interesting that now a 99% DNA match is a full match...what then does that make a 100% match??  The BBC are reporting this morning that the police are playing down the significance of the DNA evidence...Sky News playing it up ???
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: TractorTom on September 11, 2007, 10:44:57 AM
You see there is the problem right there, is it a 99% match, is it a 100% match, is it an 80% match?
And how come it's being referred to in terms of percentages when DNA is generally referred to as 1 in one million or so on.

I hate being this confused.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Bensars on September 11, 2007, 11:16:46 AM
Substantial quantities of Madeleine McCann's hair were found in the boot of her parents' hire car, it's been revealed.


Investigators are convinced so much hair was found that her body must have been stored in the vehicle, which was hired more than three weeks after she disappeared.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=481028&in_page_id=1811&ct=5


Pamela Fenn, who was in an apartment above the family on May 3 - the night Madeleine disappeared - is quoted as saying she believed Mrs McCann sometimes became violent and "out of control" in the room below.

She claimed that "the little girl's screams calling for her daddy were very audible".

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=481168&in_page_id=1811
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Mentalman on September 11, 2007, 01:55:01 PM
Now I'm no expert on DNA or statistics but it's interesting that now a 99% DNA match is a full match...what then does that make a 100% match??  The BBC are reporting this morning that the police are playing down the significance of the DNA evidence...Sky News playing it up ???

DNA is statictically only ever 99.999% reliable for matching, there is always the slight possibility that the DNA profile matches someone else by mere chance. The likelihood of this happening is usually well below 0.001% (1 in 100,000), but it depends on the race of the person involved.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: A Quinn Martin Production on September 11, 2007, 02:07:41 PM
Substantial quantities of Madeleine McCann's hair were found in the boot of her parents' hire car, it's been revealed.


Investigators are convinced so much hair was found that her body must have been stored in the vehicle, which was hired more than three weeks after she disappeared.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=481028&in_page_id=1811&ct=5


Pamela Fenn, who was in an apartment above the family on May 3 - the night Madeleine disappeared - is quoted as saying she believed Mrs McCann sometimes became violent and "out of control" in the room below.

She claimed that "the little girl's screams calling for her daddy were very audible".

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=481168&in_page_id=1811


Well if you read the whole of the Daily Mail articles they tell you feck all really.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: A Quinn Martin Production on September 11, 2007, 02:11:24 PM
Now I'm no expert on DNA or statistics but it's interesting that now a 99% DNA match is a full match...what then does that make a 100% match??  The BBC are reporting this morning that the police are playing down the significance of the DNA evidence...Sky News playing it up ???

DNA is statictically only ever 99.999% reliable for matching, there is always the slight possibility that the DNA profile matches someone else by mere chance. The likelihood of this happening is usually well below 0.001% (1 in 100,000), but it depends on the race of the person involved.

Yes but if you take two DNA samples from the same person surely that's a 100% metch??  I thought the chances of two people having the exact same DNA profile was somewhere in the region of 1 in a billion
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: MauriceMalpas on September 11, 2007, 02:34:52 PM
Question:
How many people got sent those Maddy emails and didnt delete instanteously?

I reckon its ripe for a reply all, assuming the parent's alleged guilt is proven.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Mentalman on September 11, 2007, 02:40:26 PM
Now I'm no expert on DNA or statistics but it's interesting that now a 99% DNA match is a full match...what then does that make a 100% match??  The BBC are reporting this morning that the police are playing down the significance of the DNA evidence...Sky News playing it up ???

DNA is statictically only ever 99.999% reliable for matching, there is always the slight possibility that the DNA profile matches someone else by mere chance. The likelihood of this happening is usually well below 0.001% (1 in 100,000), but it depends on the race of the person involved.

Yes but if you take two DNA samples from the same person surely that's a 100% metch??  I thought the chances of two people having the exact same DNA profile was somewhere in the region of 1 in a billion

Alright, they take a sample of my DNA. Sometime later I disappear. They suspect my friend. On testing the boot of my friends car they find humman DNA, which they match to mine. Statisically it's a 99.999% match, there is a chance that there is someone else out there, with my DNA, who has been in the boot. In practical terms it's a 100% match, given the circumstances.

It's not 1 in 1 billion, it depends on race group etc. I seem to remember during the OJ Simpson case Cochrane, in the face of incontrovertable DNA evidence, came out with the statistic that their were something like the possibility of 8 other individuals with matching DNA in the same city area on the night of the murder....of course no one has ever found them it's just a statisical probability of chance...or the degradation of some of the samples meant it could have been his son....

The reason for an 80% match could be manifold, nearly all down to the sample being exposed for a prolonged period, especially fluids.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Hound on September 11, 2007, 02:41:51 PM
I'd say a lot of Maddie posters have come down over the last few days.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: full back on September 11, 2007, 02:46:37 PM
If the parents arent guilty, which is entirely possible, they are bound to be tearing their hair out right now.
Not only are they getting blamed for it, but there seems to be little or no focus on the little girl now.
I have not heard anything about the search for her in over a week now
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Star Spangler on September 11, 2007, 02:49:15 PM
The police believe she is dead and they must have a fairly solid reason.  Obviously the public will only ever hear about 5% of what the police know before it goes to court.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: maxpower on September 11, 2007, 03:16:46 PM
Is it conceivable that the little girl was abducted, the police have exhausted all resources and plausible avenues for her safe return and that after 100+ days missing have accepted the likelihood of her safe return is very small, therefore its damage limitation for the country who has lost millions in tourism and would continue to do so if the dissapearance remained unsolved and suspected to be like to paedophiles.

Political pressure is used by the portugese to demonise the McCann's, find them guilty or at the very least deflect public opinion onto them and not the region.  force the 'English Disease' back across the water and brush the whole nasty incident under the carpet.

As i'm sure you can tell i'm not convinced the McCann are guilty, well of neglect yes but murder/accidential death i don't think so and i hope not.  i have felt for a few weeks now that for finaincial reasons this needed to be brought to a head before next years holidays are being booked.  Not normally a conspiracy theorist but the stories coming from portugal are every bit as confusing as the stories coming from the McCanns
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: AZOffaly on September 11, 2007, 03:42:49 PM
I hope, for the twins sake, that this has not been one long cynical cover up by the parents, and that they had nothing to do with it, other than being very naive/neglectful on the night in question.

However, one thing is rapidly turning me off and that is the constant sniping that the Police are totally incompetent. The constant little Englander stuff about the Portugese police is very colonial and borderline racist. They castigate them in a 'how dare those incompetent foreigners dare accuse our Kate and Gerry' way, belittle the evidence and generally all but call the police liars.

How they can do this when they don't know what the police case is built on is a little revolting in my opinion, and while I genuinely hope the McCann's are innocent, I am more likely to believe that the police force must have at least some strong suspicions based on more than some sort of vendetta against the McCanns.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on September 11, 2007, 03:46:26 PM
The fact they are concentrating their efforts on defending their name at the moment rather than keeping the focus on their missing daughter doesn't sit well with me. It wouldn't matter two f**ks to me what someone did or didn't accuse me of if someone close to me was missing, you can always chase after them later.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Bensars on September 11, 2007, 03:52:50 PM
Report on sky.com


Bodily fluids - not blood - matching Madeleine McCann's DNA have been found in the car hired by her parents, according to sources.
 
Enduring a tense waitThe sample was taken from the boot, where the spare tyre is kept.

It had an 88% match with the missing four-year-old's DNA, sources said.

Police searching the car also found so much of Madeleine's hair that it could not have been transferred from a blanket or clothes.

It must have come directly from her body, sources said.

The news comes as Portuguese prosecutors received all of the files of evidence on the McCanns from police investigating the four-year-old's disappearance.

Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Balboa on September 11, 2007, 03:56:17 PM
I was half in jest talking about Max Clifford getting the call until saw this on Times Online today............


"The McCanns have engaged Angus McBride from the same firm, who is known for high-profile work where reputations need protecting.

Mr McBride, who specialises in all kinds of criminal defence work, has also developed a particular expertise in handling the media and managing and protecting the reputation of people and companies subject to media or criminal investigation."
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: rory on September 11, 2007, 04:04:40 PM
Quote

It had an 88% match with the missing four-year-old's DNA, sources said.


Chimps DNA is 95% similar to humans.  If the DNA in the boot matched Maddie's to 88% I would say that the fluids are probably from a mamall, could even be a primate.....
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Mentalman on September 11, 2007, 04:16:49 PM
I was half in jest talking about Max Clifford getting the call until saw this on Times Online today............


"The McCanns have engaged Angus McBride from the same firm, who is known for high-profile work where reputations need protecting.

Mr McBride, who specialises in all kinds of criminal defence work, has also developed a particular expertise in handling the media and managing and protecting the reputation of people and companies subject to media or criminal investigation."


Clifford was on Tubridy this morning, the McCann's, or should I say Kate, contacted him at the start, within days of the child's disappearance. Clifford believes the PR people of the holiday firm the McCann's had the apartment leased through are handling their PR.

Quote
Chimps DNA is 95% similar to humans.  If the DNA in the boot matched Maddie's to 88% I would say that the fluids are probably from a mamall, could even be a primate.....

Just as an aside, that statistic is out of date now, latest research puts it far lower. In any case it referes to genetic structure etc.

Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Bogball XV on September 11, 2007, 04:28:35 PM
Report on sky.com
My God, it's true then ??? ???  I really don't know much about this whole story, but, I wouldn't believe any leaks or other bullshit at this stage - better not to bother speculating and just wait for what the police actually know, other than that I hope the parents are cleared fully or convicted, just as long as it's not left hanging, for the sake of all the McCann family.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: orangeman on September 11, 2007, 04:35:15 PM
Sadly, whether they were invloved or not and without proving the case against them, there will always be suspicion. It's just a tragic situation all round.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: A Quinn Martin Production on September 11, 2007, 04:36:28 PM
However, one thing is rapidly turning me off and that is the constant sniping that the Police are totally incompetent. The constant little Englander stuff about the Portugese police is very colonial and borderline racist. They castigate them in a 'how dare those incompetent foreigners dare accuse our Kate and Gerry' way, belittle the evidence and generally all but call the police liars.

Not only that AZOffaly, British sniffer dogs are more competent than Porutguese ones!!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Billys Boots on September 11, 2007, 04:41:53 PM
And if they are found guilty, they'll turn into people of Irish decent very quickly.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: AZOffaly on September 11, 2007, 04:59:35 PM
Sure Irish people are all 'decent'. (I've caught Billy in a spelling error Hurrah Hurrah!) :D
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: thebandit on September 11, 2007, 05:02:53 PM
Why does the finger seem to be pointed more towards the mother than the father?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: TractorTom on September 11, 2007, 05:12:47 PM
Well if you wanted to place bets on which one would crack quickest which one would you choose?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: SammyG on September 11, 2007, 05:20:46 PM
Why does the finger seem to be pointed more towards the mother than the father?

Fairly standard tactic, if the peelers think that one of them did it. You blame the one who's most likely to either crack and confess or get flustered and change their story. You then use this 'evidence' when you interrogate the other suspect and see if his story matches up.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on September 11, 2007, 06:02:46 PM
so the prosecutor has passed the files onto a judge, wonder does that mean there may be charges?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: TractorTom on September 11, 2007, 06:03:57 PM
Latest

McCann files to be given to judge  
 
Portuguese prosecutors are to hand to a judge the files on missing four-year-old Madeleine McCann.
Madeleine's parents - who have been named as suspects - are now waiting to hear what action will be taken.

BBC reporter Caroline Hawley said the options available to the judge included ordering more search warrants and changing the McCanns' "arguido" status.

It had been thought the prosecutor would take longer to study the files, our correspondent said.

On Monday, police handed their files to the Algarve-based prosecutor, Jose Cunha de Magalhaes e Meneses, for him to decide whether to bring charges against Kate and Gerry McCann.

Speaking outside the prosecutor's office in Portimao, Luisa Duarte said Mr Cunha de Magalhaes e Meneses had received the papers and decided they should go before an instructional judge.

The judge has 10 days to make a decision on the files' contents.

The McCanns are back at their home in Rothley in Leicestershire where Mr McCann has described the events of the past week as an "unending nightmare".

 
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Capt Pat on September 11, 2007, 10:36:25 PM
The other thing that has generally stayed out of the press a lot is that the McCanns are both doctors. Doctors are often referred to as Dr Gerry McCann or Dr Kate McCann. It has always been Kate and Gerry McCann in the media with occasional mentions of the fact that they are doctors. The thing I can not fathom is that if the McCanns accidentally killed their daughter that they would go into a panic and hide the body and tell everyone else she had been kidnapped. They are doctors who are very cool operators in my experience and Jerry a cardiologist or heart surgeon you would not expect to be of a panicky mindset. What do the police mean by accidental? They gave her too much sedatives?

The scenario of accidental death doesn't seem plausible. In my opinion if they are involved in the death then it must have been murder. The other scenarion that they want you to beleive is that they are being framed which is not impossible. It is however becoming evident that they were involved in the death of their daughter.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Hurler on the Bitch on September 11, 2007, 10:41:14 PM
Fecking stinks .. gerry springer watching type family would have been convicted by now ... oooozzzeees badness .. just can't pinpoint where ... heart and head scenario and the head's winning!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on September 11, 2007, 10:53:26 PM
far, far to many unanswered questions than answered ones. Has the papers going to a judge increased or decreased the chances of further action, or has the prosecutor taken the easy option and just passed it on?

the longer this goes on  and the more information comes into the public domain the moe complecated it becomes and the more stuff comes out of the woodwork, as in:

9:15pm Jane Tanner told police that at this time she went to check on her daughter, who was ill, and recalled seeing Mr McCann talking to Mr Wilkins. As she went into the apartment, she saw a man aged around 35 carrying a little girl wrapped in a blanket.
She thought nothing of it but is now convinced this was the kidnapper. The child's pyjamas matched the description of those Madeleine was wearing. Mr Wilkins apparently saw no such man, and does not remember seeing Miss Tanner. He has told police: "It was a very narrow path and I think it would have been almost impossible for anyone to walk by without me noticing."
9:30pm Dr Matthew Oldfield left the table and offered to check the McCann children. In his first police statement he said he merely listened at the door of apartment 5a but later said he had gone in and noticed that the room seemed lighter than the others, as if the shutters had been opened. He cannot be certain whether Madeleine was there.
Gerry McCann invited Miss Chekaya to join the party at 9.30. Her account apparently contradicts Mr Oldfield, as she claims that no one left or returned to the table in the half-hour she was there.

10:00pm Kate McCann left the table at this time. One tapas bar worker has even claimed that only one person left the table during the evening, a tall man thought to be Dr O'Brien.

There are also conflicting accounts of how much the party drank. One Portuguese newspaper claimed the nine friends downed 14 bottles of wine. The McCanns insist they drank three or four.

Kate McCann ran back to the restaurant at 10pm, saying Madeleine was missing.

Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: the onion bag on September 11, 2007, 11:38:21 PM
An articulate, thought provoking and well written piece or the delusional ramblings of someone bitterly anti middle class England?



Daily Record Monday 10th September

THIS WOULD HAVE TO BE MOTHER OF ALL INJUSTICES
George Galloway

NOT since Dr Crippen - long before the blizzard of 24/7 satellite media - will there have been a case like Madeleine McCann's if the now official suspicions of the Portuguese police turn out to have been well founded.

They have turned it into a circus, with daily appearances at mass and the flight to the Vatican to kiss the hand of the Pope, invoking celebrities, inducing millions of people around the world to raise a fortune in a campaign fund and turning their child into one of the iconic faces of our age.

So even Dante himself would find it difficult to describe any circle of the inferno fit for Kate and Gerry McCann if it all turns out to have been a lie.

I have been in and around the Ocean Club in the sleepy Algarve village of Praia da Luz for more than 20 years and it has been surreal enough watching its tiny cobbled streets bristling with television crews broadcasting around the world from a once little-known holiday idyll.

And now this.

On my Talk Sport radio shows I have been critical of the McCanns from the start. Not least because I knew aspects of their story could not be true.

Their supposed constant vigilance of their three toddlers while they ate in a tapas bar and the children slept in an unlocked apartment was not possible. The distance between the two points was both greater and more convoluted than they said.

In any case, the children's bedroom was on the OTHER side of the apartment block and, though both doctors, neither parent possessed X-ray vision.

I said that if a single mother had left her three kids in the chalet at Butlins while she supped scampi and chips in the boozer, she would have immediately been attacked as a feral, feckless, unfit mother by the same media which was painting the grieving McCanns as the very embodiment of modern middle-class Britain.

For months I have watched that media poke ridicule at the supposed bumbling Inspector Clouseaus of the Portuguese police for their apparent leaden-footedness in the investigation.

Of course no Johnny Foreigner could be as good as our own police, who brought us the Guildford Four and Birmingham Six.

Now with this new development, the same media seems coiled like a spring to turn on the McCanns as they previously did on the other "suspect" Robert Murat.

Sensing they may have been made the biggest fools in history, the Press tables can be seen turning, the plates beginning to move.

Of course, the most xenophobic commentators say the science which has led to the Mccanns being named as suspects is inherently suspect due to the foreign hands through which it has passed, oblivious to the fact that it came from British laboratories.

If Madeleine's blood and other DNA evidence really has been found in the boot of her parents' hire car, there are only a few possible explanations. A previous renter of the car - it was 25 days after the child went missing that the family took possession of the vehicle - transported Madeleine in its boot and she was bleeding at the time.

Or Madeleine's body was transported in the boot at least 25 days after she disappeared once the McCanns took possession of the car.

In these circumstances the Portuguese police really would be clots if they did not consider the girl's parents to be suspects.

Of course there could be other, some would say unlikely, possibilities.

The DNA and blood evidence in the boot may not, after all, be Madeleine's and the forensic scientists may be mistaken.

The blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car may be somebody else's, in which case Goodfellas comes to the Algarve and the family are the victims of the most grotesque coincidence.

The DNA could have been planted in the boot of the McCanns' car, presumably by the police.

The sort of thing which happened to Mr OJ Simpson.

The McCanns have either been the victims of a cataclysmic historic injustice, almost unprecedented, or they have been complicit in a scheme so duplicitous, so evil, so foul that Shakespeare himself could not have written it.

Either way, the name McCann is now well and truly in the history books.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Fishbat on September 12, 2007, 04:01:33 AM
The whole truth may never be known - even if they did it and are found guilty in a court of law, it'll be denied til the grave.

How many of these rumours are actually true? like the hair in the boot etc...  you would think their every move would have been monitored after reporting a missing child

Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Bacon on September 12, 2007, 07:33:41 AM
I think it would be a disgrace if they use the Find Madeline Fund to pay their defence lawyers.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: stephenite on September 12, 2007, 07:47:59 AM
I think it would be a disgrace if they use the Find Madeline Fund to pay their defence lawyers.

Agreed, any of those who put in significant amounts (Branson?) should come out and say so as well
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ludermor on September 12, 2007, 09:06:06 AM
I think it would be a disgrace if they use the Find Madeline Fund to pay their defence lawyers.

And if they found her body tomorrow what would you like them to do witht he money? People donated that was there perogative i couldnt give a f**k what they do with the cash. I think sometimes people give money to make themselves feel goos rather than for the actual cause itself
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Balboa on September 12, 2007, 09:24:25 AM
I think it would be a disgrace if they use the Find Madeline Fund to pay their defence lawyers.

And if they found her body tomorrow what would you like them to do witht he money? People donated that was there perogative i couldnt give a f**k what they do with the cash. I think sometimes people give money to make themselves feel goos rather than for the actual cause itself

Perhaps give the money to a worthwhile charity, they were quite explicit that the money would be used to help bring any guilty parties to justice, not to pay their spiralling legal bills.

According to one solicitor, using fund money to help to pay for legal advice would not be an option.

Julian Young, president of the West London Law Society said: “People have given money to help fund the child’s return and not help the parents. If it had been said originally that the money was wanted to help with legal fees then people perhaps would not have been so generous.”

Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Billys Boots on September 12, 2007, 09:25:45 AM
Quote
I've caught Billy in a spelling error Hurrah Hurrah

Apologies AZ, I should never post when I'm in a hurry.  ;)
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Bogball XV on September 12, 2007, 10:31:24 AM
I think it would be a disgrace if they use the Find Madeline Fund to pay their defence lawyers.

And if they found her body tomorrow what would you like them to do witht he money? People donated that was there perogative i couldnt give a f**k what they do with the cash. I think sometimes people give money to make themselves feel goos rather than for the actual cause itself
There are trustees of the fund who have to authorise all expenditure, once the donation was made, donees should have been aware that expenditure was at the discretion of the trustee.  I agree with you ludermor as to why many people probably donated, in thinking about it, I wonder how much the various media organisations have given, God knows they've certainly profited from the whole thing.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Bogball XV on September 12, 2007, 10:43:24 AM
Just out of curiosity, have any members of the GAA Board donated to the fund?
Never knew there was one, and don't know why it would/should have been needed in any event.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Bogball XV on September 12, 2007, 11:25:35 AM
Just out of curiosity, have any members of the GAA Board donated to the fund?
Never knew there was one, and don't know why it would/should have been needed in any event.

You couldnt really have missed the fact that there was a fund. It was all part of the "campaign". It always seemed to me that they were in it for themselves and the missing child seemed to be a secondary issue.
TBH I paid very little attention to the whole thing until the past few days, I knew the kid was missing, thought it was terrible, but also thought the whole media frenzy and worldwide publicity thing was ott, as such I ignored almost everything about it.  I think the Irish Times had a piece on missing kids the week or two after maddy disappeared, it was quoting some mad figures of the amount of kids who had gone missing across europe in the time since Maddy had disappeared, it was somewhere around 250 I think.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: spiritof91and94 on September 12, 2007, 11:49:18 AM
Dingo Baby Case Woman Backs McCanns
Updated: 11:45, Wednesday September 12, 2007

A woman who was wrongly convicted of murderering her daughter has warned against judging the parents of Madeleine McCann before the full facts of her disappearance are known.
 
Lindy ChamberlainAustralian Lindy Chamberlain's daughter Azaria was snatched by a dingo, but she was convicted of the child's murder in 1982 before being exonerated six years later.

She told Australia's Channel Nine Television that police were under tremendous pressure from the public to bring Madeleine's case to a conclusion.

Kate and Gerry McCann have been officially named as suspects by detectives probing the disappearance of their daughter, who was three at the time, from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz.

They have strenuously denied any involvement.

Ms Chamberlain told the channel the McCanns' situation had echoes of the way she was treated.

"The public want answers, and if they haven't got them they are going to invent them," she said.

"And the police are under pressure and have been trained to find answers.

"I certainly wouldn't want to go through it again and be in their shoes."

She added: "There's nothing you can do, but I think as the public, we want to be careful not to run ahead.

"Answers are going to come from somewhere or another - whether it is the right answer is a very worrying problem
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: A Quinn Martin Production on September 12, 2007, 01:04:20 PM
Intereesting piece from Dominic Lawson in the "London" Independent:

Dominic Lawson:  Published: 11 September 2007

Everyone has a view on the disappearance of Madeleine McCann – but only the media have the power to inflict on us a tsunami of prejudice masquerading as detection. Thus it was that listeners to the hitherto dependable BBC programme Broadcasting House were involuntarily made aware that the one-time TV darts commentator Mr Sid Waddell thinks there's something really rather fishy about Madeleine's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann.

I don't know why a man whose only previous claim to public attention was his ability to scream "One hundred and eighty!" for the benefit of blind darts fans should have been thought a suitable newspaper reviewer for Radio 4's main Sunday morning news programme. Nevertheless, he was; and it was in this role that Waddell announced that he believed "there is something odd about the energy of the McCanns. I would be confounded with grief."

In his own clumsy way, Mr Waddell had encapsulated just what it is that so many people in this country seem to hold against the McCanns – and especially Mrs McCann. Ever since her daughter's disappearance, Kate McCann has resolutely refused to break down in public, maintaining her steely composure under circumstances which would reduce most mothers to wailing incoherence. Now that she has been questioned under caution by the investigators of the Portuguese police, what once seemed extraordinary self-control is now deemed to be incriminating.

Kate McCann, in fact, has become a victim twice over – first, as the mother of a snatched and possibly murdered child, and now as a target for a peculiar form of emotional tyranny which demands that the sufferer must share her terrible grief with us in the most intimate manner. Her fellow Liverpudlian, the mother of the murdered 11- year-old, Rhys Jones, fed this media-led monster with the requisite heart-rending sobs at a series of press-conferences. Yet Mrs McCann, through a mixture of natural dignity and a self-preserving detachment which she might also have learned as a GP, has denied the mob its vicarious pleasure.

Even the Help Find Madeleine McCann website is now full of disgusting insinuations: "I never believed in your pain", "You have shown nothing but cold emotion ever since 3rd May" , " Kate McCann is either a cold, emotionless woman or there is more going on than meets the eye" and so, appallingly, on. A similar website organised by the McCanns' local newspaper has had to be shut down, after the editors found themselves unable to stem the tide of vicious comments in what was designed to be a sea of comfort.

This was entirely predictable, even before the Portuguese police leaked the fact that it was in possession of some degraded DNA from Madeleine in the family's hire car which allegedly linked the assault on her to the parents. Kate McCann is following the via dolorosa previously trod by Joanne Lees and Lindy Chamberlain. Both these women refused to give the public and the press the tears that were demanded of them – Ms Lees after her boyfriend was murdered in the Australian outback and Ms Chamberlain after her baby daughter was snatched in the same bleak part of the world.

Joanne Lees's coldness to the press and her refusal to play the role of defenceless victim led to the most vile accusations that she was responsible for the murder of her boyfriend, Peter Falconio. Even the conviction of a drug-crazed gun-mad drifter, Bradley Murdoch – based on genuinely compelling DNA evidence as well as Ms Lees' s own identification – has not stopped the publication of entire books which continue to blacken her name.

The Lindy Chamberlain case is especially relevant to Kate McCann's predicament. In 1980 Lindy and Michael Chamberlain reported that their nine-week old baby, Azaria, had disappeared from their camp on a sight-seeing trip in the Northern Territory, near Ayers Rock. Ms Chamberlain told police that a dingo had just beforehand been seen leaving the family's tent. The police found her calmness – which never wavered – most suspicious. They brought a prosecution for murder, backed up by a forensic report claiming to have found elements of the baby's haemoglobin in stains discovered on a seat in the family's hatchback. On this basis, Lindy Chamberlain was convicted of murder and sentenced to life imprisonment with hard labour.

There the case rested until a few years later, when police were searching for the body of a missing British tourist, David Brett, in exactly the same area, covered with dingo lairs, where Azaria Chamberlain disappeared. They found the remains of Mr Brett; they also found something else in one of the lairs – Azaria Chamberlain's matinee jacket. This crucial piece of evidence, together with fresh doubts about the reliability of the forensics on the Chamberlains' car, led to a unanimous overturning of the original verdict – and very substantial damages being paid to the Chamberlains.

Naturally Lindy Chamberlain, like Joanne Lees, has still not been forgiven by elements in the press for her refusal to wail in public over her bereavement. For example, last October the Daily Mail's Amanda Platell wrote of Ms Lees: "I haven't seen such creepy control in a woman since Lindy Chamberlain cried 'My God, the dingo's got my baby'." Similar sneers are now being cast in the direction of Kate McCann for her cry on discovering that Madeleine was missing from her bedroom: "They've taken her!" This, apparently, is highly suspicious.

Those writers who want to persuade their most sceptical readers that Kate McCann is not the witch of their imaginations have made valiant attempts to make her cry in public – even by imagining it. Thus the Times' report of the McCanns' return to the UK described how "Mrs McCann was said by fellow passengers to have wept on the flight back." The Daily Mirror reported on its front page: "Yesterday Kate McCann sobbed as she sat alone in daughter Madeleine's pink-painted bedroom after returning to England." She obviously wasn't alone, as there seems to have been a Daily Mirror reporter in the room with her; or there wasn't, in which case the paper cannot know what Mrs McCann was doing in her daughter's "pink-painted bedroom".

As a matter of fact, I suspect the Mirror's guess was entirely accurate. How could Mrs McCann not have been convulsed with grief when she saw her daughter's bedroom again, with everything exactly the same – except for the whole point of it? Yet by trying to be sympathetic, to make Kate McCann into the woman it thinks its readers want her to be, the Daily Mirror stripped her of the very last vestige of her dignity – the right to grieve privately and in her own way. Even in this most intimate moment, the poor woman cannot escape the monstrous tyranny of synchronised sentimentality – show us yer care, Kate! – which once exalted her, and now condemns her.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: A Quinn Martin Production on September 12, 2007, 01:07:42 PM
Another in more or less the same vein from Jonathan Freedland in the Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2167113,00.html

Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: oneillcup2007 on September 12, 2007, 01:13:56 PM
I think we must believe in the good in humanity before we believe in the evilness of humanity.  We are all too cynical.   
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: SouthArmaghBandit on September 12, 2007, 01:40:25 PM
Some tips from the Help Find Madeleine wed site.

WEAR A WRISTBAND
Wearing an official wrsitband will remind you and people who see it to remain vigilant for Madeleine. You can buy the wristbands here http://findmadeleine.org.uk/ (http://findmadeleine.org.uk/).

GOT A WEBSITE, BLOG, MYSPACE PAGE, MESSAGEBOARD etc?
The internet is a vital tool in the search for Madeleine. If you have a site, no matter what kind of site it is, you can help find Madeline by linking to this or other 'find Maddie' websites. You can post topics on messageboards, or make blog posts about Madeleine. There are lots of posters and photos on this site that you can use. Wherever possible, try to make use of the photo showing her distinctive right eye. You can even set up your own website dedicated to Madeleine and raise money.

TIE A YELLOW RIBBON
The yellow ribbon is known around the world as a symbol reminding people of those who are missing or away from home and in danger, such as soldiers in Iraq. Right now, the yellow ribbon is becoming synonymous with the search for Madeleine. Tie a yellow ribbon to your gate, or display one in your window. Maybe even wear a ribbon in your hair! Every time someone sees a yellow ribbon, they will be reminded of Madeleine.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on September 12, 2007, 01:54:43 PM
So where are they going to get the money for their entourage? to pay for lawyers, spokespeople, PR experts and all? middle England and beyond? Has this become a clash of classes? so many questions so little answers , well at the moment!!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on September 12, 2007, 10:33:11 PM
I see someone has beaten me to the piece that Jonathan Freedland had in today's Guardian. He wrote,

Quote
How will this story end? That's what makes it so grimly compelling: none of us knows. Until we do, basic justice demands that we presume the McCanns are wholly innocent. Common decency demands the same. For if they are eventually found guilty, there will be plenty of time for condemnation. But if they are innocent, to presume otherwise is to commit a second crime against people who have already suffered enough.

Couldn't have put it better myself!

Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ziggysego on September 12, 2007, 11:36:31 PM
Affleck may delay movie over Madeleine

Ben Affleck has revealed that he is considering halting the release of his directorial debut because it bares too much resemblance to the case of missing four-year-old Madeleine McCann.

'Gone Baby Gone' tells the story of a four-year-old girl, also called Madeleine, who is kidnapped from her bed while her mother leaves her alone in the house.

Affleck was due to debut the movie at the Deauville Film Festival in France in November, but on learning of the case of Madeleine, who went missing from Portugal in May, he has decided to review whether to still release the picture in Britain.


Ben Affleck has revealed that he is considering halting the release of his directorial debut because it bares too much resemblance to the case of missing four-year-old Madeleine McCann.

'Gone Baby Gone' tells the story of a four-year-old girl, also called Madeleine, who is kidnapped from her bed while her mother leaves her alone in the house.

Affleck was due to debut the movie at the Deauville Film Festival in France in November, but on learning of the case of Madeleine, who went missing from Portugal in May, he has decided to review whether to still release the picture in Britain.


He said: "We are acutely aware of the situation. We have a greater concern for that than the release of our film, which is just a commercial matter, whereas this is a matter of life and death.


"I'm not up to date on the details and it is not something that has taken off in the US in the way it has in the UK. It is only when someone said there was this case that was very similar to my film that we looked it up.


"We don't want to release the movie if it is going to touch a nerve or inflame anybody's sensitivities."

He said: "We are acutely aware of the situation. We have a greater concern for that than the release of our film, which is just a commercial matter, whereas this is a matter of life and death.


"I'm not up to date on the details and it is not something that has taken off in the US in the way it has in the UK. It is only when someone said there was this case that was very similar to my film that we looked it up.


"We don't want to release the movie if it is going to touch a nerve or inflame anybody's sensitivities."

Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: paddypastit on September 13, 2007, 12:40:39 AM
Don't know what the source of the story was / is Ziggy but the child in Affleck's movie is not called Madeline.  She's called Amanda but she's played by a child (obviously!) actress called Madeline

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0452623/

http://gonebabygone-themovie.com/
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: spiritof91and94 on September 13, 2007, 08:31:19 AM

The prosecutor has made a number of requests of the judge, among them that he approve the seizure of Mrs McCann’s personal diary, the sources told Portuguese journalists.

One Portuguese newspaper reported that the authorities took the diary last week, along with correspondence belonging to the McCanns.

The judge is being asked to approve the seizure of the couple’s documents retrospectively to comply with laws prohibiting “abusive interference in their private lives”, the Jornal de Noticias said.

The diary will help police “understand the couple’s habits” and supply clues to the investigation, the paper reported.


Who many people take a diary on holiday?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ziggysego on September 13, 2007, 10:00:33 AM
Don't know what the source of the story was / is Ziggy but the child in Affleck's movie is not called Madeline.  She's called Amanda but she's played by a child (obviously!) actress called Madeline

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0452623/

http://gonebabygone-themovie.com/

RTÉ
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Star Spangler on September 13, 2007, 10:14:44 AM
A summary of what the English papers are saying today.

DAILY EXPRESS
front page: “MADELEINE. DOES MUM’S DIARY HOLD VITAL CLUE?”

Portuguese police want Kate McCann’s diary. And “detectives believe her desperate entries…will help unlock the secret”.

Pages 4: “Find the body and prove we killed her – The McCanns’ challenge to police yesterday.”

This is the “startling ultimatum”. This is the McCanns being portrayed in villain mode, the desperados coolly confronting Poirot with the retort that his case is built on nothing but speculation.

“They could stand trial in Britain,” says the Express.

Page 5: THE WORLD’S GREATEST NEWSPAPER sees the McCanns “Facing up to the world”. The paper watches the family seize “60 precious minutes of normality” as they head to a playground. Kate McCann sits between her twins in the backseat of the family car [a VW], “her arms protectively around their child seats”. The Express notes that the couple go out around 10pm, retuning at about 15 minutes to midnight. What can it mean?

Page 6 and 7: Portuguese Daily 24 Hours says investigators are “probing the connection” between Robert Murat, suspect No. 1, and Gerry McCann, suspect No. 3. A police sources says “Gerry [first name] met Murat [surname]” when “Gerry was campaigning for the Labour Party.”

Says Murat: “I’ve never met the man before and the idea that I’d met him when he was campaigning for the Labour Party is laughable. I’ve been a Conservative all my life.”

And so the mystery divides along party lines. Will the right-wing Express now stick up for Murat and the left-wing Mirror puts the boot in and champions Gerry?

DAILY MIRROR
front page: “EXCLUSIVE OURAGE OF KATE – A glimpse inside her world of pain.”

Kate McCann is on her way to the playground.

Page 4: “Each morning they wake and think ‘this could be the day we find her’..it’s the hope that drives them on.” So says a “friend of the McCanns”.

The Mirror sees all. It sees Kate and Gerry wake up- and “momentarily struggle to focus”. Then: “a second passes as they lie side by side.” Then the “crushing familiarity, the horror of their living nightmare comes flooding back”.

Kate McCann prays each morning.

They are under “inhuman strain”. They don’t take sleeping tablets.

The live in a “quiet cul-de-sac”, the peace interrupted only by the sound of a hundred snappers screaming “This way Kate!” and hacks shouting “Did you do it?”.

They drive a people carrier, a VW, as the Express has reported. They are at the playground. They push the children on swings “and laughed as they played on the children’s slide”.

Page 5: Party politics is back as Mirror readers learn that John ‘Vulcan’ Redwood has removed his comment on the case (see here).

Pages 6 and 7: “If they are innocent and think that their daughter is still alive then they should be in Portugal trying to look for her.” The Mirror publishes some choice comments from its readers.

DAILY MAIL
front page: “MADELEINE – McCanns tells police: Produce the body.”

Page 10 and 11: “Show us your diaries” – Portuguese police want to seize Kate’s diary and Gerry’s laptop.

Police might also confiscate Madeleine’s toys, including the Cuddle Cat (aka the ‘Maddy Catty’). Philomena McCann, Gerry’s sister, says this would be a “disgrace”.

Says Philomena: “That wee girl will be thinking ‘they’re not looking for me. My mummy and daddy and my aunties – they don’t love me because they can’t find me.”

THE SUN
front page: “COPS WANT CUDDLE CAT.”

Detectives are “plotting” to take hold of the toy. This is “MADDIE: PARENTS’ NEW ORDEAL”.

Pages 6 and 7: Readers lean of “TWO THEORIES”. They are: “GUILITY OR INNOCENT?”

The Sun sums up the justice system neatly. It has got to the bones of the thing. At last the case is getting somewhere.

DAILY STAR
front page: “MADDIE’S TOY WILL NAIL KILLERS – Cops say Cuddle Cat holds vital clues.”

In an “EXCLUSIVE” (see Sun), the Star says police have launched an “international operation to seize Madeline’s McCann’s favourite soft toy, Cuddle Cat.”

Cuddle Cat is not a suspect. Yet.

Page 6: “Maddie’s hair tufts hold key to killing” – forensics can tell if the hairs reportedly found in the McCanns’ car boot are from a live or dead Madeleine.

Page 7: “PALS ‘COVER-UP’ PROBED BY POLICE”- Detectives want to re-interview the McCanns’ dinner companions.

THE TIMES
front page: “McCanns diaries and laptop to be seized by Portuguese police.”

Pages 6 and 7: “Parent will have to pay defence cost without Madeleine Fund.”

The six directors of Madeleine’s Fund: Leaving No Stone Unturned Ltd, say: “The fund directors realise that there is not only a legal answer and recognise the spirit which underlies the generous donations to Madeleine’s Fund…any search fund to pay legal defence costs would have to be separately set up and administered.”

They fail to add that this is what Princess Diana would have wanted.

A family source tells the paper: “PR and law firm are not cheap.” Nor private detectives, say others.

THE GUARDIAN
page 7: “McCanns may order own DNA tests on car.”

DAILY TELEGRAPH
page 11: “DNA expert urges caution over forensic evidence.” Sir Alec Jeffries is billed as “the world’s leading expert on DNA”. He tells BBC’s Newsnight show: “DNA does not have the words innocence or guilty on it – that is a legal concept. What it seeks to establish is connections and identifications.”

THE INDEPENDENT
page 9: “Questions at the heart of perplexing investigation.”

The paper wonders what we know about forensic evidence reportedly found in the McCanns’ car. It answers: “The picture remains far from clear.”

Is there a 99 per cent match or an 80 per cent match? What about a 62.2 recurring match. Higher or lower?

We could go on…
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: A Quinn Martin Production on September 13, 2007, 10:31:07 AM
BREAKING NEWS!! Robert Murat and Gerry McCann both have 11 letters in their name.  An insider clsoe to the investigation reveals that when this was put to Gerry he arrogantly replied "But my full name is Gerard McCann and that has 12 letters"
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Uladh on September 13, 2007, 10:46:15 AM

The prosecutor has made a number of requests of the judge, among them that he approve the seizure of Mrs McCann’s personal diary, the sources told Portuguese journalists.

One Portuguese newspaper reported that the authorities took the diary last week, along with correspondence belonging to the McCanns.

The judge is being asked to approve the seizure of the couple’s documents retrospectively to comply with laws prohibiting “abusive interference in their private lives”, the Jornal de Noticias said.

The diary will help police “understand the couple’s habits” and supply clues to the investigation, the paper reported.


Who many people take a diary on holiday?


Its not a diary. it's a notepad which the mother started writing her thoughts and feelings in in the days after her daughter was taken.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Pietas on September 13, 2007, 01:04:50 PM
why would she do that?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Balboa on September 13, 2007, 02:01:58 PM
why would she do that?

The book? The movie?

Correct 5Times. Book, movie, their own chat show. The heap.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Uladh on September 13, 2007, 02:15:01 PM
why would she do that?

The book? The movie?

Correct 5Times. Book, movie, their own chat show. The heap.

I don't know, i've never had a child taken. some sort of self therapy? its the first thing a therapist will ask you to do to deal with trauma.

it never ceases to amaze me the unsubstantiated crap and blatant assumptions that the dregs of this board will throw up to help incriminate these people in people's minds, despite never seeing a shred of evidence against them.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: A Quinn Martin Production on September 13, 2007, 02:49:41 PM
Sounds like you get quite a bit of info from the tabloids yourself 5Times..."clumps" of hair...really??
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Wee Roddy on September 13, 2007, 03:01:53 PM
If the police had found a "clump" of hair they would know wether the child was dead or alive when it was "left" or transfered there. If the hair, blood etc etc belonged to Maddie they would be charged long ago. To me the police have no concrete evidence and are just sending transcripts to the public prosecuter to take the heat of them. As Columbo would say, the evidence is circumstantial to date hence the clinging to straws looking for dairies and laptop.
This is my opinion AND mine only.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Uladh on September 13, 2007, 03:22:56 PM
Uladh you sound like someone who has needed a therapist in the past.

How can you say there is "not a shred of evidence against them"
The Childs DNA was found in a car hired 25 days after her "disappearance", that is quite hard to explain. Obviously you take your opinions and assumptions from the British gutter press, where rather than question the evidence at face value they decide to attack the Portugese and their methods. Strands, no clumps of the childs hair were found in the boot of the car, I suppose you and your ilk in the British media think the Portugese Police "planted" that to make the McCanns look bad.
I think the McCanns have looked bad from day 1. They left 3 little children on their own, while they wined and dined with their "friends", a fact that the media has either overlooked or swept under the carpet. The whole find Maddy campaign quickly became a media circus and the little girl was soon forgot about, her parents became celebrities and embarked on a "tour". Did they really expect to find her in the Vatican?
Of course I may be wrong, but I base my opinions on my own instincts, not on what I read in the British tabloids. But their child is still "missing" and its is their fault, no one elses.

actually, i buy virtually no papers any more. personally i am equally as disgusted with the rush to convict these parents as i am with the british press's maligning of the Portugese police methods. none of these rumours, leaks and assumptions about DNA, leads and evidence are fact. portugese law does not permit these aspects of the investigation to be made public. all of these pronouncements from the press, the family and "police sources" do not go beyond the realm of speculation. to convict or clear anyone on such a body of assumptions, hunches and beliefs is ridiculous. reverting back to denegrading the parents for their original massive error is hardly corroborative evidence of a desperate crime on their behalf.

5times, your final line is the ultimate nonsense.

"But their child is still "missing" and its is their fault, no one elses."

they obviously contributed to this end through negligence but to say that any potential abductor who went into the little girl's room and took her from her bed is not at fault is frankly idiotic.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: A Quinn Martin Production on September 13, 2007, 03:33:36 PM
Some of my earlier post went missing but as Wee Roddy says, had the police found "clumps" of hair in the boot of the car the McCanns would be in custody facing some very serious charges.

Like most other posters I don't know if the McCanns were involved in their daughter's disappearance.  My gut says they weren't, mainly because I haven't yet been able to work out how they managed to hide the body for at least three and a half weeks, then recover the body (presumably badly decomposed and smelling to high heaven, unless of course they managed to refrigerate it) and hide it again so that it hasn't been found almost 20 weeks since she disappeared, all in the glare of media and presumably under the watchful eye of the police.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: TirEoghaingodeo on September 13, 2007, 04:40:23 PM

Who many people take a diary on holiday?


Its not a diary. it's a notepad which the mother started writing her thoughts and feelings in in the days after her daughter was taken.

why would she do that?


The reason given is this quote from todays daily mail

A summary of what the English papers are saying today.



DAILY MAIL
front page: “MADELEINE – McCanns tells police: Produce the body.”

Page 10 and 11: “Show us your diaries” – Portuguese police want to seize Kate’s diary and Gerry’s laptop.

Police might also confiscate Madeleine’s toys, including the Cuddle Cat (aka the ‘Maddy Catty’). Philomena McCann, Gerry’s sister, says this would be a “disgrace”.

Says Philomena: “That wee girl will be thinking ‘they’re not looking for me. My mummy and daddy and my aunties – they don’t love me because they can’t find me.”

The thinking being that if she turns up, the diary will show her how much they cared. If they did it though, i think they'd be intelligent enough to keep it unincriminating.
Personally think that they did it, but think that there won't be a successful conviction unless the body is found. Too much of the evidence will be circumstansial, and easily picked apart by clever lawyers.

On a final note, if the quotes in todays papers that the mc canns are saying you can't win a case without a body, think that's a bit unseemly.
Title: From New statesman
Post by: bcarrier on September 13, 2007, 05:57:53 PM
The McCann case is all in our minds
Viv Groskop

Published 13 September 2007

10 comments Print version Listen RSS Now the idea that "the parents might have done it" has been officially introduced, the speculation has gone stratospheric

So the McCanns have returned home. And what a homecoming. It was never going to be a pleasant experience for them, nor even a barely tolerable one, but the global media mob surrounding them last weekend seemed excessive by any standards. At the time of writing, the public prosecutor in Portugal was deciding whether charges should be brought against them.

It would be foolish for anyone not in possession of the same documents as the public prosecutor to make any assumptions about this case. All anyone else can really say is that, as yet, there is no hard evidence in the public domain. But that's not very satisfying, is it? Crucially, it's not news, in a highly emotive case where news, any news, is all any one wants.

So instead, the case has become a story about a story, where known facts - of which there are few (or, rather, none, save the unexplained disappearance of a child) - are not being allowed to get in the way of the theories, of which there are thousands, voiced by any amateur detective you care to meet.

From the outset, and while this case simply remained "every parent's worst nightmare", widespread theorising was always inevitable. Now the idea that "the parents might have done it" has been officially introduced, the speculation has gone stratospheric.

One of the oddest things about it is the strength of opinion from onlookers in the face of next to no evidence. It is possible to meet many people at the moment who claim to "know" the truth about what happened (whether sympathetic to the McCanns or not) - and to have "known" it from the beginning. They stick to their story irrespective of anything reported in the media, only choosing to believe reports that confirm what their initial instincts already told them. There is almost a sense that any real conclusion might be disappointing: they may still hope for the best or fear the worst, but really they just don't want to know that they guessed wrong.

This is rather depressing - actually, it's very depressing - but the desire to construct a narrative is entirely natural and one of the strongest impulses of the human condition. Even more desperate than the desire for a story, we want a satisfying conclusion: we want to know the "truth" about what happened. When the truth is not forthcoming - or is heavily delayed - we can't stand it. We impose our own narrative, which once it is repeated often enough becomes the story in itself.

This is what has happened with the McCanns. And in the absence of any real truth, the situation that has emerged tells us more about ourselves than anything we think we know about the case. While no real evidence that Madeleine is alive or dead has been made public, we must make do with the unsatisfactory state of not knowing. The human mind, however, craves resolution. And so as time goes on, everyone sees in the story and its protagonists exactly what they want to see. Everyone draws their own conclusion and believes it.

It is pointless and naive to blame people for being interested. It's even more wrong-headed to pretend, as many have protested, that people have lost interest. They haven't. (If you're one of the few who has, then why have you read this far?) The fact is, even if and when the mystery is solved, people will always be fascinated. Whether there are any real developments or real evidence is increasingly irrelevant: the story now has its own momentum in people's minds, independent of factual events.

The international scale of the case is a sign that this is not a British problem. As the possible imaginary scenarios multiply and the likelihood of new evidence shrinks, the case is taking on the qualities of an elaborately plotted novel. For the McCanns the secondary plot - the campaign, the accusations, the trial by media - threatens to overshadow the real story - Madeleine's disappearance. Or maybe it's too late and this has already happened.

This month's opening of the film version of Ian McEwan's novel Atonement should serve as a timely warning. This is another story about a story. It's about what happens when evidence takes second place to instinct and assumption. Two small children go missing - an event which clouds everyone's judgement. A girl imagines she has witnessed a crime and constructs the facts she needs. The innocent are convicted, the guilty walk free, lives are ruined.

Atonement is a mesmerising morality tale about the all-too-human desire to impose a narrative before all the facts are known. It succeeds as a fiction because it has the ring of truth. In real life, however, we need to look beyond the story and wait patiently for the facts. In the case of Madeleine McCann - unless she can suddenly be found, dead or alive - this may take a very long time indeed.

Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: SidelineKick on September 13, 2007, 07:23:36 PM
if the mccanns were lower class slobs who left their daughter in a hotel room by herself while they ate out wud the public and the media have been as helpful? the fact that theyre doctors people seem to overlook that this is primarily their fault, no parent wud leave a small child of that age alone for such a period of time if they were in another room in the house let alone a different building. terrible tragedy yes but they have lived in portugal off peoples donations for weeks, now they want to use the money to pay for their £500 an hr legal team. if i had donated id be wanting it back.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Puckoon on September 13, 2007, 08:03:23 PM
Uladh you sound like someone who has needed a therapist in the past.

How can you say there is "not a shred of evidence against them"
The Childs DNA was found in a car hired 25 days after her "disappearance", that is quite hard to explain. Obviously you take your opinions and assumptions from the British gutter press, where rather than question the evidence at face value they decide to attack the Portugese and their methods. Strands, no clumps of the childs hair were found in the boot of the car, I suppose you and your ilk in the British media think the Portugese Police "planted" that to make the McCanns look bad.
I think the McCanns have looked bad from day 1. They left 3 little children on their own, while they wined and dined with their "friends", a fact that the media has either overlooked or swept under the carpet. The whole find Maddy campaign quickly became a media circus and the little girl was soon forgot about, her parents became celebrities and embarked on a "tour". Did they really expect to find her in the Vatican?
Of course I may be wrong, but I base my opinions on my own instincts, not on what I read in the British tabloids. But their child is still "missing" and its is their fault, no one elses.


Correct - but this makes no one automatically guilty of whats being suggested.

The truth of the second sentence remains to be seen

Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Uladh on September 13, 2007, 08:54:36 PM
5times, your final line is the ultimate nonsense.

"But their child is still "missing" and its is their fault, no one elses."

they obviously contributed to this end through negligence but to say that any potential abductor who went into the little girl's room and took her from her bed is not at fault is frankly idiotic.

Sorry Uladh, but if they hadnt gone out and left their children unattended, none of this would have happened. We would never have heard of them and the accusations would never have surfaced. They are guilty of at least gross neglect and I dont believe the media should have painted them out to be such a perfect couple as they clearly arent. The media have taken the McCanns side in this, when I believe they should have asked them some difficult questions a long time ago.

how many times are you going to make that same post. noone denies they were hghly negligent. if you don't see the lunacy in absolving any potential child abductor of blame then we'll leave it at that. "icouldn't help kidnapping the child m'lud. when i checked all of the apartment, that one unbelievably unlocked, then how could i resist going in? and how could i not take that child from her bed when she was there in front of me..."
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Balboa on September 13, 2007, 09:03:42 PM
Has a "child abductor" been identified Uladh? The police seem to be following a definite line of inquiry (accidental death) & it does not seem to include a "child abductor".
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Uladh on September 13, 2007, 09:12:21 PM

The point is that noone knows what happened. there may be many possible scenarios. the portugese police don't know obviously and we certainly don't. we were all in agreement months ago that the parents were hugely negligent and its a burden they will carry to their grave. i'm saying, how can anyone make the leap to convict them in the absence of even a shred of evidence.

you can't say "in the light of recent forensic results..." there have not been any results released. these reports are all based on leaks and guess work. you say i would be very quick to point the finger at you in the same circumstances but the reality is i would offer the same presumption of innocence to the dregs of society or even the cerebrally challenged.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on September 13, 2007, 09:13:06 PM
The parents have to share the blame and that's why, from day 1, I had a hard time feeling any sympathy for them.

I thought I caught on the end of the news a week or so ago that social services where investigating them. 
Hopefully the rest of their party that also thought it was perfectly ok to leave their children alone will be investigated also.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: hardstation on September 13, 2007, 09:15:11 PM
Quote
I thought I caught on the end of the news a week or so ago that social services where investigating them.
I heard that too and you are 100% correct.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: SidelineKick on September 13, 2007, 09:27:54 PM
I thought I caught on the end of the news a week or so ago that social services where investigating them. 

about time, as i said if this had have been a lower class chav family there wud have been absolute otrage and no way would there have been the same support from the public.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Capt Pat on September 13, 2007, 10:23:23 PM
I will start at the beginning. there can be no doubt that from the outset the McCanns were guilty of something close to criminal neglect. The left their children alone in an unlocked apartment while they went boozing and as  result one of those children is missing. This is not contested by anyone as a result of this they will always have been police suspects in the disappearance of their daughter. The fact that the police did not jump in and make them official suspects from the outset is irrelelvant. The McCanns will also have realised that while people would have sympathised with them, their reputations as solid citizens and good doctors would be destroyed by leaving their children alone. A possible conviction for child neglect would have disaterous consequences for their careers.

From a very early stage the McCanns mounted a campaighn to highlight the disappearance of their daughter and keep it in the media spotlight. This helped to reinforce the beleif that their daughter was kidnapped by a paedophile. If the media bought this and they did to an enourmous extent the police were forced into acting as if they beleived this was the most likely outcome. The media then found Robert Murat a local character who aroused suspicion. No evidence was ever found linking him to the crime unlike the McCanns. Murat is still a suspec teven though no evidence linking him to the child has ever been found.

The McCanns media campaign has focused on finding their daughter, when the Portuguese police began linking the McCanns to the disappearancce of the daughter, the media campaign that the McCanns had created told the police to focus on looking for their daughter, they were trying to apply moral pressure on the police to investigate other leads instead of them.  By mounting the international campaiign the McCanns forced the police into following many false leads in countries all over Europe and North Africa. What has this media campaing acheived so far, has it done anything to help find the child? Or did it merely paint the McCanns as amazingly dedicated parents, which they were not having left their vey young children alone in an apartment to go drinking. It has also dragged the reputation of the Portuguese police into the mud very successfully. This could be handy in hte PR battle if the case ever goes to trial.

Lately the noises coming form the McCann PR machine have changed. Saying to the police find a body or you have no case, this shows that the mask might be slipping. Maybe there never was a campaign to find Madeleine, maybe it was all just a campaign to protect the reputation of the wonderful doctors and deflect attention elsewhere.

The McCanns also said they would carry out independent tests of the hire car. I found this to be very bold. Imagine an ordinary decent criminal whose DNA or finger prints have turned up at a crime scene demanding that he be able to have independent tests carried out to verify the truth of the police investigations. To me the notion of independent tests in a criminal investigation seems ludicrous. What makes the McCanns so special. If it comes to trial they will have lawyers and abudndant dna experts to challenge the evidence of the police.

I am keeping my powder dry as what may have happened as any opinion of mine is just idle specualtion.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Hurler on the Bitch on September 13, 2007, 10:28:45 PM

I am keeping my powder dry as what may have happened as any opinion of mine is just idle specualtion.

I am fed up with this speculation - could we maybe not call a 'truce' on this issue until we have something to mull over? i.e an arrest or something.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: hardstation on September 13, 2007, 10:52:29 PM
Off topic but where do you get these reports from TYP?
Where in the name of fcuk did you see the London Evening Standard?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Uladh on September 14, 2007, 10:27:30 AM
Again TYP, none of this goes beyond the realm of speculation. a french newspaper claims to have seen DNA evidence? and reporting a journalist's "investigation" as incrimininating fact?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Uladh on September 14, 2007, 10:29:41 AM
Speaking of the dregs of society Uladh, how is your mother, I hear she hasnt been the same since the British Army went home. Maybe she`ll never find your father now.
I think petty name calling and attempted personal insults show how weak your arguments really are, a bit like yourself really, but I have offered before to meet you and sort out our differences and you declined. That offer still stands today, tomorrow or whenever you grow a set of balls.

 :D

you couldn't make it up. seriously, o'neill couldn't sit down and write some of your posts.

bad boy indeed.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: orangeman on September 14, 2007, 02:02:40 PM
How can you trust anybody again - if and I mean IF these allegations about overdose etc are correct, how deep would you need to be to dream up this story and worse, carry it through ?? Sad story to begin with - but it could get much worse.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: gaagaa on September 14, 2007, 04:59:38 PM
Face it, the police in Portugal made a mess of it, they were under pressure to get the McCanns out of the country coz it destroyed their tourism!
All these leaks are from the police trying to cover their tracks - and both sides are supposed to keep their silence.  I think the parents leaving the weans in the flat on their own was disgraceful but it doesnt change the fact that an innocent child has suffered.  There were lots of stories about police corruption & paedo rings with politicians / celebrities beforehand.  We should know more about police corruption than anyone else for God sake!!!  I gave money to the fund and I want them to use it to defend themselves.  If the police tab this on them then the wean will never be found.  Remembet the family in the US who got their child back after nearly a year.  And what about the girl in Belgium.  There's more to the Morocco link too - many children (and there have been quite a few!) are taken there to be brainwashed.

Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Capt Pat on September 14, 2007, 10:11:50 PM
gaagaa. Do you really beleive that. I think the McCanns have hoodwinked you. They have fooled a lot of people. Why on earth do you want people who are accused of causing the death of that child to use money from the "Madeleine fund" to allow them get away with such a crime. You are making no sense.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: blast05 on September 14, 2007, 10:46:45 PM
Quote
Why on earth do you want people who are accused of causing the death of that child  ....... 

Remind me when they were accused

Quote
Face it, the police in Portugal made a mess of it, they were under pressure to get the McCanns out of the country coz it destroyed their tourism!

Oh my God, after all that has been said on this thread, people still come out with posts starting like this. Face what ? facts for a start maybe ?!?!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Capt Pat on September 14, 2007, 11:07:22 PM
"When were they accused"

Of course they have not been directly accused yet but we are talking about the situation where if they are accused should they be allowed to spend money from the fund to defend themselves. Until they are accused they should not be spending money to defend themselves.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: blast05 on September 14, 2007, 11:46:22 PM
Quote
Of course they have not been directly accused yet but we are talking about the situation where if they are accused should they be allowed to spend money from the fund to defend themselves. Until they are accused they should not be spending money to defend themselves.

Jaysus, i don't know where to start   ::)     "Until they are accused"   ....  wtf
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Tyrones own on September 15, 2007, 12:43:35 AM
  Well maybe you are all right about this based on your "facts" however if or hopefully when the child shows up alive
  or the parents are proven innocent i hope each and everyone of you hang your heads in shame.
 Some of you should be writing scripts for CSI, Law and Order and the likes, Experts the lot of ye >:(
 In my mind, until they are proven guilty, they are extremely unfortunate parents going through an ordeal
 that you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy. That for some reason seems to be lost on some of you here!
 
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: gaagaa on September 15, 2007, 03:53:48 PM
gaagaa. Do you really beleive that. I think the McCanns have hoodwinked you. They have fooled a lot of people. Why on earth do you want people who are accused of causing the death of that child to use money from the "Madeleine fund" to allow them get away with such a crime. You are making no sense.

Capt Pat - what about the delays in sealing off the site, allowing the apt to be rented out, failing to check apartments nearby which hadnt been rented out, the result of the police's other high profile disappearance, the delays in prosecuting paedos in Portugal, etc.  The paretnts leaving the children cant be excused.  But what if they didnt do what they are being accused of behind closed doors?  What if they are framed and the people who abducted the child arent caught?
I can only comment on how I want the money I gave to be spent & Im sure Im not alone.

Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Main Street on September 15, 2007, 04:19:43 PM
Tyrones Own, obviously everyone here knows that they are going through one hell og an ordeal, but they ordeal is of their own making, they went out and left 3 children under the age of 4, unattended while they wined and dined with their friends. It is neglect on an epic scale and one way or the other it has led to the disappearance of one of their children. Now we can all argue til we are blue in the face about how that child disappeared, but if they had sat in the appartment or got a babysitter, this may not have happened.
5iveTimes, the neglect has hapenned. After that it is a soap opera and a big part of that is that many are not shy to to jump to speculative opinion of gymnastic proportions.

For my part I have tried to avoid the opera, I only heard the parents in an interview early on and I did not hear the desperate pain or anguish in their voices. I thought that this doesn't sound right at all. I know what its like to be culpable in a kid's dissapearance for a couple of hours and it's quite normal for the first time to be a gibbering wreck in the face of your worst fears. I found their detachment from emotion to be remarkable. It's up to the local cops to investigate, I can live with not knowing or not being sure of anything and postponing speculation until evidence is established.   
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: spiritof91and94 on September 17, 2007, 03:46:38 PM
Any updates on this story?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on September 17, 2007, 08:11:18 PM
ITV Now


Good boy shep!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Balboa on September 17, 2007, 08:15:55 PM
Perhaps not the most balanced programme you will watch......
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on September 17, 2007, 08:17:49 PM
Thinking that as well, waste of time
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Balboa on September 17, 2007, 08:23:00 PM
Thinking that as well, waste of time

I told the missus i wouldnt be watching that shite but alas i was overruled (sp?)
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on September 17, 2007, 08:31:10 PM
An awful amount of clutching at straws going on.

Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on September 17, 2007, 08:39:29 PM
The only revelation to me was near the end, the similarities to Maddie from the case of Joana (wont even attempt to spell the surname) she went missing and her her mum was found guilty, she and the husband claim she was fitted up and a confession was beaten out of her, did  you see the photo, also the same inspector was in both cases, and he is a suspect in something, that disappearance was only 7 miles away.

they have never found the girl in that case either.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on September 17, 2007, 08:48:38 PM
The only revelation to me was near the end, the similarities to Maddie from the case of Joana (wont even attempt to spell the surname) she went missing and her her mum was found guilty, she and the husband claim she was fitted up and a confession was beaten out of her, did  you see the photo, also the same inspector was in both cases, and he is a suspect in something, that disappearance was only 7 miles away.

they have never found the girl in that case either.

Thought that was very stange myself but google the name Joana Cipriano and you'll see a very different side to the story. 
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on September 17, 2007, 08:55:57 PM
5times it was load of shite.  It took the side that the Mccanns are innocent, framed by a police. 
Started off well and we seen shep (dog) being tested - he found the blood and smelt death in the right car - he scraped the floor like mad. Then they had some man putting glitter on his hands and showing how DNA could be transferred.  He thought a clump of maddie's hair would have fallen out of brush and into the boot.  Then it interviewed the father (i think) of the child joana who went missing 7 miles from maddie.  Her mother is serving time, the father claimed she was set up and a confession beat out of her.  The policeman over that case is one of the ones involved in Maddie's case.  It did sound very suspicious to me but as I say, put the name into google till you see what you get. 
We'd a few soundbites from the family then.

oh and we'd some man who talked about portugal not having a sex offenders register  ::)  I stopped listening to him after that.

It was just clutching at straws.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on September 17, 2007, 08:58:06 PM
POG, see what you mean,

"Leonor Cipriano and her brother, who had a incestuous relationship, were both sentenced" among other things.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on September 17, 2007, 09:02:40 PM
POG, see what you mean,

"Leonor Cipriano and her brother, who had a incestuous relationship, were both sentenced" among other things.

And it was the uncle that confessed - not the mother.
The mother accused and named police officers of beating her up - she couldnt pick one of them out in a line up. (Including yer man that's involved in Maddie's case)

The British Media think we're stupid!!!!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Colonel Cool on September 17, 2007, 10:01:05 PM
I couldn't find anything other than Sun like headlines. Can you post POG?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Capt Pat on September 17, 2007, 10:18:04 PM
Anyone find it interesting that the McCanns are both nhs doctors and something like this should happen to them. I have heard it said that glasses aren't the only thing that comes free on the NHS if you know what I mean. ;)
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on September 17, 2007, 10:22:56 PM
http://portugalresident.com/portugalresident/search.asp (http://portugalresident.com/portugalresident/search.asp)
That's what I got from searching that paper - not all of those articles are related but you'll find relevant ones. 

if you throw the name into google you should get loads, even from forums and blogs - not reliable I know but enough to show at least some of the facts of the case and it's not what the British Media are putting forward!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Colonel Cool on September 17, 2007, 10:29:32 PM
Thanks
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: longball on September 18, 2007, 11:54:30 AM
did anyone see the show last nite on UTV?? the link between the investigating officer being involved in this case and a simlar case 7 miles away where neither child has been found is interesting. it named him as a formal suspect!

The bit with the dogs was cool as well.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: full back on September 18, 2007, 11:58:30 AM
did anyone see the show last nite on UTV?? the link between the investigating officer being involved in this case and a simlar case 7 miles away where neither child has been found is interesting. it named him as a formal suspect!

The bit with the dogs was cool as well.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz's
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: balladmaker on September 18, 2007, 09:45:20 PM
Quote
Was Murat no alleged to be having an affair with Kate McCann when this story first broke?

Only by some eejit on this site who didn't know how to interpret punctuation in a sentence.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Sandy Hill on September 25, 2007, 09:54:58 PM
Scary!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: balladmaker on September 25, 2007, 11:18:41 PM
There is definitely a resemblance, no doubt about that.  Absolutely unreal....
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Norf Tyrone on September 26, 2007, 01:19:37 PM
Very like her...has hair is parted slightly different though, but very, very like her.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: full back on September 26, 2007, 01:23:13 PM
There ceratinly is a resemblance - although the quality of the picture isnt the best.
Not knowing much about it, I would expect it to be unusual for Moroccans go be going around with a white, blonde kid.
Even if it isnt Maddy it may be someone elses kid
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Mentalman on September 26, 2007, 01:26:10 PM
sweet suffering jesus...
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: spiritof91and94 on September 26, 2007, 01:44:19 PM
Lets hope......
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on September 26, 2007, 02:26:49 PM
yip lets hope indeed.

the police will need to use recognisation techneques on the photo and take it from there, If it were me I would be shiting myself at this stage, unless...........
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: the Deel Rover on September 26, 2007, 02:28:44 PM
how come it took so long for the couple to come forward or did they contact the police straight away?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: hardstation on September 26, 2007, 02:29:56 PM
how come it took so long for the couple to come forward or did they contact the police straight away?
Feckin Boots photo printing service is a curse.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: nrico2006 on September 26, 2007, 02:50:19 PM
Quote
There ceratinly is a resemblance - although the quality of the picture isnt the best.
Not knowing much about it, I would expect it to be unusual for Moroccans go be going around with a white, blonde kid.
Even if it isnt Maddy it may be someone elses kid

First thing I thought when I saw it this morning.  There is a resemblance but from the picture it could be any white european girl around that age with that hair colour.  But as mentioned what i first noticed was the group of what looks like Moroccans with this girl who is obviously not of their race.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Bensars on September 26, 2007, 03:32:59 PM
hopefully it is her.  This is a situation i would love to have my opinions reversed, as i thought they( the parents) may have had something to do it.

You would think that once the story broke, and the families criticism/ scepticism of foreign police forces, that some of them would have been on the first plane to morrocco to find her themselves.

Dont hink the spanish holiday makers should recieve any criticism whatsoever. I have had holiday snaps in cameras for months  if not years.

Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Homer on September 26, 2007, 04:21:26 PM
It's not her I'm afraid

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,70131-1285900,00.html (http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,70131-1285900,00.html)
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: seanf on September 29, 2007, 10:53:48 AM
they deserve more than 12 months for leaving them poor children on there own while going on the lash!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ludermor on October 01, 2007, 09:18:31 AM
How many ways can she have died?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: deiseach on October 01, 2007, 10:01:13 AM
First thing I thought when I saw it this morning.  There is a resemblance but from the picture it could be any white european girl around that age with that hair colour.  But as mentioned what i first noticed was the group of what looks like Moroccans with this girl who is obviously not of their race.

The only thing 'obvious' is that you haven't a clue what you're talking about. In these Google days, there's no excuse for making a comment like this.

Not Madeleine: Photo Hopes Dashed (http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91210-1285947,00.html)

Updated: 10:33, Thursday September 27, 2007

Photographs showing a fair-haired Moroccan girl have dashed the latest hope of a possible sighting of missing Madeleine McCann.

The pictures taken by Evening Standard journalist Rashid Razaq, who flew to Morocco from London, show the five-year-old daughter of an olive farmer has a resemblance to Madeleine.

Reporters descended on the remote hillside village of Zinat in the north of the country after the image of a young girl being carried on a Moroccan woman's back was flashed around the world as a possible sighting of the four-year-old missing girl.

But it quickly emerged that the girl in the photograph was youngster Bushra Binhisa.

Clarence Mitchell, the McCanns' spokesman, said: "Clearly, if these reports that the girl in the photograph isn't Madeleine are true, it is disappointing news.

"This is why Gerry and Kate refused to comment on individual sightings and why I was advising caution overnight.

"The search for Madeleine will continue and I would appeal for everyone to refocus their efforts to achieve her safe return."

The photograph, taken by Spanish tourist Clara Torres on August 31, was passed to the McCanns' lawyers yesterday and immediately forwarded to experts for analysis.

The McCanns had been hoping the anti-paedophile Child Exploitation and Online Protection centre, which is already involved in the case, could use hi-tech facial mapping techniques to be sure if it was Madeleine.

Journalist Mr Razaq said it was clear on arriving in the town who was in the photograph.

Speaking through an interpreter, Bushra's father, Hamid Binhisa, told him: "Bushra is my little girl.

"She is not Madeleine. I do feel sorry for her parents, I hope they find Madeleine. But Bushra is definitely my daughter."

Her mother, Hafida, who is believed to be the woman carrying the child on her back, said she was surprised at finding herself at the centre of an international story.

"Even in this remote backwater people have heard of Madeleine McCann," she told Mr Razaq.

Family members also said blonde and even red-haired children were not uncommon in the area with its ethnic Berber population.


visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: seanf on October 01, 2007, 10:21:03 PM
"If she was taken when she was sleeping by somebody she did not know, she would have screamed the place down."



there you go!


I rest my case!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: hardstation on October 01, 2007, 10:23:00 PM
Not if she was dosed to the eyeballs with a sedative...........................
Endless amount of scenarios.....
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: From the Bunker on October 01, 2007, 10:42:47 PM
Has the abduction by aliens senario been used yet?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: hardstation on October 01, 2007, 10:45:10 PM
I heard she got up, hijacked a car and and and drove away into the sunset. Haven't heard the aliens one though.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: From the Bunker on October 01, 2007, 11:21:12 PM
I heard she got up, hijacked a car and and and drove away into the sunset. Haven't heard the aliens one though.

It will crop up at some stage HS......every other senario has nearly been used up and papers need to be sold!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ONeill on October 09, 2007, 09:47:30 PM
You might find the videos at the bottom of this page interesting:

http://dnasupport.co.uk/caregirls/viewtopic.php?t=76&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on October 10, 2007, 10:29:29 PM
You might find the videos at the bottom of this page interesting:

http://dnasupport.co.uk/caregirls/viewtopic.php?t=76&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

O'Neill

it looking me to log in, any way round it?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ONeill on October 10, 2007, 10:30:35 PM
http://s215.photobucket.com/albums/cc130/ellibean99/?action=view&current=portugal048.flv

http://s215.photobucket.com/albums/cc130/ellibean99/?action=view&current=portugal045.flv

http://s215.photobucket.com/albums/cc130/ellibean99/?action=view&current=portugal049.flv

http://s215.photobucket.com/albums/cc130/ellibean99/?action=view&current=portugal050.flv

http://s215.photobucket.com/albums/cc130/ellibean99/?action=view&current=portugal051.flv

http://s215.photobucket.com/albums/cc130/ellibean99/?action=view&current=portugal057.flv

http://s215.photobucket.com/albums/cc130/ellibean99/?action=view&current=portugal058.flv
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: hardstation on October 15, 2007, 09:46:43 PM
I came across this video. I didn't know whether to post it or not..............don't be shouting at me!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpKZO3c69Ps (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpKZO3c69Ps)
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on October 15, 2007, 09:51:04 PM
Whats on the video? (It'd take my computer a week to download that).

That C4 Dispathes programme will be on about it - Thursday @ 9pm
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: hardstation on October 15, 2007, 09:53:01 PM
It's called "The Real Maddie McCann Story" and that name is the reason I was reluctant to post it.
It's just questions surrounding the whole thing/
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on October 15, 2007, 10:12:44 PM
A lot have already been raised here, but with the entire story so far, no answers.... will we ever know the truth? I think not
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on October 16, 2007, 02:25:04 PM
The truth died with that little girl.

I take you you are convinced that she is dead then 5 Times? While I am 99% with you there remains that tiny glimmer of hope, or is that  just wishfull thinking?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: cavan4ever on October 16, 2007, 02:44:47 PM
She probably died on the night that she went "missing".
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: cavan4ever on October 16, 2007, 02:54:20 PM
Probably, she may even have died before she went "missing", but that is just speculation.

True.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: DMarsden on October 16, 2007, 03:10:54 PM

That youtube is possibly the worst collection of hamfisted editing, juvenile questions and distorted facts i've ever seen in an attempt to endorse a conspiracy theory!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: DMarsden on October 16, 2007, 03:26:20 PM

what could be true? it didn't make any accusations!

just a string of distorted facts childishly phrased to suggest conspiracy
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ONeill on October 16, 2007, 11:39:08 PM
McCanns face new claims over Maddie body
Tuesday, October 16, 2007

The McCanns are under fresh scrutiny The parents of missing Madeleine McCann are facing fresh claims that evidence from their daughter's decomposing body was found in their hired car.

Sources in the Portuguese police allege their forensic test results show 'bodily fluid' from a corpse was found in the boot of the Renault Scenic hired by Kate and Gerry McCann nearly four weeks after 3-year-old Maddy went missing.

According to reports, the evidence was found on the underside of a carpet, indicating a body might have been deliberately hidden there.

It is understood police are now awaiting the results from further tests which could show whether the DNA belongs to Madeleine.

But sources close to the McCanns have dismissed the allegations insisting the couple are 'wholly innocent'.

The couple's spokesman Clarence Mitchell told the Evening Standard: 'I cannot comment on yet further, unsubstantiated reports.

'Nor are we allowed to speak because of Portuguese judicial secrecy laws on anything that appears to touch on the evidential nature of the case.'

But friends of the McCanns accused Portuguese police of waging 'a long-planned act of revenge for Briitish newspapers showing disrepect at the start of the investigation'.

One added: 'Police believe the criticism was inpired by the McCanns and these smears are na attempt to fight back.'



Has journalism in 2007 plummeted to depths uncharted before? Michael Buerk was right. Dish monkeys.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: mannix on October 17, 2007, 08:32:14 AM
No actually they have not gone to new depths.Some british media are morally bankrupt and only want to sell newspapers, same as their american counterparts.If we wanted the opinion of a 2 bit journalist we could ask for it, I do not but a newspaper for anyones opinion, only the facts and I can make up my own mind.The americans were led by the media to believe the goverment, much like germant were fed the propaganda before ww2.I have a copy of the daily news from ny, on the cover they have the german and french representatives pictured sitting side by side in an actual meeting and the heads are replaced by a rat on one and a weasel on the other, the headline was "axis of weasel" and it was propaganda for the masses of new yorkers that get all their news and opinions from such tripe.I kept it because I could not believe it.

Maddie Mc Cann was probably killed and the portugeses police were wickedly inept in their investigation, releasing the apartment and the rental car before they knew what was happening.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Billys Boots on October 17, 2007, 10:06:03 AM
Quote
Some british media are morally bankrupt and only want to sell newspapers

That's their job - we're the morons for expecting anything other than drivel.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: gaagaa on October 27, 2007, 07:45:54 PM
From Times Online
October 22, 2007


Mr Monteiro said that because fewer children were abducted in Portugal than in England Portuguese police had less expertise in dealing with cases of child disappearance.

“All I say is that a million children are abducted in the world every year, a thousand in England, and we have a dozen. This is the type of crime that is investigated by police here and in the rest of the world.   “They tell me now, ‘Mistakes were made’. But we don’t have great experience in this type of crime.” He added: “All I know is that no lead should be abandoned. There is no lead strong enough to exclude all others.”   Portuguese detectives investigating what happened to Madeleine, who disappeared on May 3, will travel to Britain “in days”, Alípio Ribeiro, the national director of the Polícia Judiciaria, told El País, the Spanish newspaper.


theyve had enough scandals brushed under the carpet with paedo politicians / celebrities in recent year that they know they have a def problem - this is a bullshit excuse
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 01, 2007, 05:40:31 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7068760.stm

 ::)
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: gaagaa on November 01, 2007, 10:24:56 PM

When Maddie went "missing" the McCanns were devout Catholics and were regularly seen in public with a Priest. Now it seems they have changed religion after being advised to do so by their campaign managment.

Gerry went back to work today, maybe he wont have to spend the campaign funds on his mortgage. Seems like he left Kate at home to look after the kids, which is a nice change  ;)

i gave money to the fund & dont mind if it goes towards their mortgage - they need to keep some normality for the other kids
they screwed up big time, but the most important issue is getting their daughter back & keep the twins sane
leave them alone
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: deiseach on November 01, 2007, 11:54:41 PM
It'd have been nice if they had left us alone rather than deflecting their guilt at leaving their daughter alone in the apartment by turning the whole thing into a flippin' circus.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: gaagaa on November 03, 2007, 12:01:21 PM
report in 1 of todays papers says they are closing in on morocco area where child allegedly being held
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: balladmaker on November 03, 2007, 01:20:45 PM
Read it in a few papers as well as on Sky's website.......11 sightings in the one remote mountain area.  Apparently, it is considered to be a prize trophy to have a fair haired child in your family, some sort of status thing in Morroco.

Team of 40 investigators on the ground in this area for the last several weeks.  But then again, could just be another wild rumour made up by the press.

Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Turlough O Carolan on November 03, 2007, 05:06:51 PM
report in 1 of todays papers says they are closing in on morocco area where child allegedly being held

Did it say these were ex SAS soldiers hired by the family. God help some of those Moroccan families with fair haired children, if it's anything like the last family that was descended upon.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: balladmaker on November 03, 2007, 05:34:37 PM
Quote
"However, Kate and Gerry are entirely innocent and therefore are unconcerned about reports in the media because they know the truth.

"They are not responsible in any way, shape or form for their daughter's disappearance.

I've taken a dislike to the McCann's spokesman, Clarence Mitchell.   How does he know if they were involved or not, was he there at the time the child went missing?

I assume that he wasn't and therefore is not in a position to make claims such as the above as if they are fact.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on November 03, 2007, 05:37:49 PM
Quote
"However, Kate and Gerry are entirely innocent and therefore are unconcerned about reports in the media because they know the truth.

"They are not responsible in any way, shape or form for their daughter's disappearance.

I've taken a dislike to the McCann's spokesman, Clarence Mitchell.   How does he know if they were involved or not, was he there at the time the child went missing?

I assume that he wasn't and therefore is not in a position to make claims such as the above as if they are fact.

because they said so and they are paying him.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: gaagaa on November 03, 2007, 06:13:18 PM
report in 1 of todays papers says they are closing in on morocco area where child allegedly being held

Did it say these were ex SAS soldiers hired by the family. God help some of those Moroccan families with fair haired children, if it's anything like the last family that was descended upon.

they're supposed to be a team with experience of recovering people whi have been kidnapped in south america

what happened the last family they descended upon?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Our Nail Loney on November 05, 2007, 09:55:13 PM
i saw maddy mccann running about the holylands on halloween night... she was dressed up as a 20 year old student tho.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on November 05, 2007, 10:01:48 PM
Quote
Mr McCann wrote on his blog to mark the six months since his daughter’s disappearance: “We have no idea whether she is suffering but we have to hope and pray that she is being treated like a princess, as she deserves.”
It's a pity he didn't treat her like that!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on November 05, 2007, 10:09:50 PM
Programme on UTV tonigh at 11:05 about the McCanns.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: deiseach on November 06, 2007, 07:36:23 AM
they're supposed to be a team with experience of recovering people whi have been kidnapped in south america

what happened the last family they descended upon?

Step. Away. From. The. Frederick. Forsyth. Novels . . .
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: spiritof91and94 on November 06, 2007, 01:26:08 PM
i saw maddy mccann running about the holylands on halloween night... she was dressed up as a 20 year old student tho.

you are a very sad individual.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: deiseach on November 08, 2007, 06:58:05 PM
You might note that I do not comment on much of what has happened, I just wish to fuel discussion by providing the latest info.

Is there a one-stop-shop for all these stories? If there's not, you must be scouring the internet everyday for Maddie info.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: deiseach on November 08, 2007, 07:03:24 PM
Do you think they are guilty?
You must have formed an opinion by now, otherwise you would have lost interest in the case by now.

He could be an anthropologist, studying our reactions as part of a doctrinal thesis: Child Kidnapping From Cro Magnon Man to Essex Man
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: hardstation on November 08, 2007, 08:26:37 PM
Nah, he told me before that he has some sort of account that he gets all sorts of newspaper articles e-mailed to him.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: gaagaa on November 11, 2007, 01:29:36 AM
regardless of opinion on parents its the child we have to remember
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Turlough O Carolan on November 11, 2007, 04:22:09 AM
regardless of opinion on parents its the child we have to remember


The media in England, and to a lesser extent in Ireland, have forgotten that. The media today do not appear to have the ability to report a story unless they can tell it in terms of some sort of simple conflict and in this case they've chosen to tell this story as the conflict between vacationing English couple versus bungling Portuguese cops. It might as well be a soccer game to them.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Capt Pat on November 11, 2007, 03:43:33 PM
It is just another news story to them. They do not care too much about the child. It has finally been dumped off the front page of the tabloids by a kinky sex murder in Italy of a British student. Are these the biggest most newsworthy stories worthy of a 48 page topic on GAA discussion board. I don't think they are. Why do the British tabloids give so much exposure to paedophiles? It seems to sell the papers but are there other reasons behind it?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: gaagaa on November 11, 2007, 06:08:01 PM
keeping the story alive improves the chances of finding the child
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Capt Pat on November 11, 2007, 10:17:43 PM
It also sells more newspapers. I think you are wrong, the child is obviously dead. Why keep this story alive for so long?

Before the McCanns the media coverage of paedophilia was bordering on the fanatical in the tabloids.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: balladmaker on November 12, 2007, 12:20:46 AM
Quote
the child is obviously dead

What makes you so certain?  Without a body, anything is possible.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: gaagaa on November 13, 2007, 09:07:13 PM
Quote
the child is obviously dead

What makes you so certain?  Without a body, anything is possible.

It is more than likely that she is dead, the media campaign would have made it almost impossible to keep her if she was abducted.

you dont know that - what if her hair was chopped & dyed?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: orangeman on November 14, 2007, 03:58:16 PM
This story is running out of steam FAST.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: hardstation on November 14, 2007, 04:02:25 PM
Or I'm a celebrity get me out of here.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: gaagaa on November 16, 2007, 10:41:05 PM
Or I'm a celebrity get me out of here.

I think they already had their own version of that show, but at least it made them celebrities  ;)

5times in gaa matters you are ususlly making lucid points but on this subject you are going too far
i
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on November 17, 2007, 01:49:25 PM
A close friend of Kate and Gerry McCann has told the BBC she saw a man carrying a child through the Portuguese holiday resort where they were staying.

In an exclusive interview, Jane Tanner said she remained adamant Madeleine McCann had been abducted.

Ms Tanner was among a group of friends who dined with the McCanns on 3 May as they left Madeleine and their two other children asleep in an apartment nearby.

Her parents were named as official suspects in September.

Madeleine, from Rothley, Leicestershire, vanished from the family's holiday apartment in Praia da Luz days before her fourth birthday.

Ms Tanner told the BBC's Panorama programme how her friend Rachael came to her holiday apartment to tell her Madeleine had gone at about 10pm.

   
I know what I saw and I think it's important that people know what I saw because I believe Madeleine was abducted
Jane Tanner

"And then I saw Kate and Fiona running around shouting 'Madeleine', and Kate said to me, 'Jane, Madeleine's gone, Madeleine's gone'.

"And that's the first I heard."

Jane Tanner is potentially a crucial witness in the police investigation.

Ms Tanner says at about 9.15pm she saw a man walking away from the complex with a child, but at the time thought nothing of it.

It was another 45 minutes before friends informed her Madeleine had disappeared and now she says she is convinced that child was Madeleine.

'Liar and fantasist'

Much of the police investigation focuses on the timeline of events on the night of 3 May.

And the group of friends who dined together - the so-called Tapas Nine - have been key to piecing it together.

Among them were friends and fellow holiday-makers including Rachael Oldfield and Dr Fiona Payne.

The face was left blank as Ms Tanner could not recall some details

Ms Tanner insists she has done everything to help with the police investigation but decided to talk to the media after being called "a liar and a fantasist".

"I know what I saw and I think it's important that people know what I saw because I believe Madeleine was abducted," she said.

Ms Tanner also said that she would be willing to be questioned again by police if it helped with Madeleine's investigation.

Last month the McCanns released artist's sketches of a man drawn by an FBI-trained forensic artist using details from Ms Tanner.

She had described the man she saw as aged about 35 to 40, 5ft 6in (1.7m) tall, and slim and the child he was carrying was described as wearing the same pyjamas as Madeleine.

The artist, commissioned by private detectives working for the McCanns, left the man's face blank as Ms Tanner was unsure about some details

The police say they do want to speak to all friends who were with the McCanns on the night Madeleine vanished.

They are reassessing the case but continue to believe that Madeleine was either abducted or died as a result of an accident in the holiday flat.

The full interview with Jane Tanner can be seen on Panorama: The Mystery of Madeleine McCann on BBC One at 2100 GMT on Monday 19 November.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7098390.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7098390.stm)



Kate and Gerry McCann should be facing, at the very least, charges relating to child neglect and some of their friends should be looking at the same.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: slow corner back on November 17, 2007, 02:57:31 PM
Why should the friends face any charges they are not responsible for what the McCanns do with their children? If they did something similar with their own that is a different matter. As for this woman seeing some unidentified man in a holiday complex with an unidentified child, big deal, holiday maker walks round resort with child??? What next suspicious man lay on a deck chair and sunbathed in the Algarve!!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on November 17, 2007, 03:00:54 PM
Why should the friends face any charges they are not responsible for what the McCanns do with their children? If they did something similar with their own that is a different matter. As for this woman seeing some unidentified man in a holiday complex with an unidentified child, big deal, holiday maker walks round resort with child??? What next suspicious man lay on a deck chair and sunbathed in the Algarve!!
They did something similar, sure they were running back and forward to rooms checking on the children they left alone too.

Quote
If you were on holiday with a group of friends and their children and you saw a stranger carrying what you thought to be you friends child would you not challenge that person? Or would you let him walk off and not mention him for 6 months.
Yeah but she couldn't see the child but now she's sure it was maddie!  Aye right, her story stinks.  Can't wait to see interview.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on November 19, 2007, 09:12:52 PM
BBC1 Now

Negligent parents on show.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: balladmaker on November 20, 2007, 12:37:39 AM
Quote
Francisco Marco, the boss of Metodo 3 said: ‘We are 100 per cent sure she is alive. We are sure she was abducted. We are very, very close to finding the kidnapper.’

Maybe I'm missing something, but why would the private detective come out and say "We are very, very close to finding the kidnapper"...?  Surely it would be a better policy to just find them and then announce it to the world, rather than tipping the kidnapper off in advance!  Makes me think they are just seeking a bit of attention for their business.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ziggysego on November 26, 2007, 09:48:43 PM
Wasn't one of the papers claimed today that the police think that the McCann's have sold Maddie?

Personally I think it's rubbish, but it goes to show you want the papers will do to sell their rags.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on November 26, 2007, 10:29:53 PM
Wasn't one of the papers claimed today that the police think that the McCann's have sold Maddie?

Personally I think it's rubbish, but it goes to show you want the papers will do to sell their rags.
Bloody hell, thats a new one
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: J70 on November 26, 2007, 10:36:52 PM
Wasn't one of the papers claimed today that the police think that the McCann's have sold Maddie?

Personally I think it's rubbish, but it goes to show you want the papers will do to sell their rags.

They sold their own child? :o

What paper was this? The Daily Sport?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: midLouth on November 26, 2007, 10:39:08 PM
I just did a quick google on it, and the police investigated this for a couple days before realising that two GPs tend to earn a fairly healthy living and would have no financial needs that would result in them selling their child.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on December 22, 2007, 09:25:24 PM
While I hope that she would be home it doesnt look like it.

I wonder what evidence he had to make the statement "I cannot say who she is with because we are putting together conclusive proof we can present to the authorities so they can proceed with their arrests.

“God willing, I hope she’ll be back with her parents before Christmas.”



Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: balladmaker on December 22, 2007, 10:01:45 PM
Quote
I wonder what evidence he had to make the statement "I cannot say who she is with because we are putting together conclusive proof we can present to the authorities so they can proceed with their arrests.

“God willing, I hope she’ll be back with her parents before Christmas.”

I can't understand how anyone can treat this PI agency with any credibility whatsoever.  If they are so certain that they are about to make their move on the kidnappers, why go public now at such a crucial stage.  I'm sure the kidnappers also watch the news, read newspapers, monitor the internet just like the rest of us.  So why tip them off in advance.

I think thie Metodo agency are just trying to string things out, therefore prolonging their lucrative employment by the McCanns.  I read that they expect to receive in the region of £750,000 for their services to date!

I hope I am wrong about them, but we will see in the next few days if they are just a crowd of liars or not.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: gaagaa on December 23, 2007, 11:27:54 PM
God help the McCann family at this time of year
Hopefully there will be a +ve breakthrough in this case soon
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Minder on January 09, 2008, 10:03:16 AM
 
Madeleine film reports dismissed 
 

Madeleine McCann's parents have denied reports they are planning to make a film about her disappearance.
Writing on his online blog, Madeleine's father Gerry McCann said speculation about a film deal was "simply untrue".

However, he did confirm there had been talks with a production company about making a documentary on the couple.

He said projects were assessed to see if they could help find Madeleine, who disappeared in Portugal, just before her fourth birthday, last May.

'Simply untrue'

Writing on his blog on Tuesday, Mr McCann said: "Some of the media coverage today has been at its worst since Kate and I were declared arguidos [formal suspects].

"We can categorically deny that we are considering a movie about Madeleine's disappearance. This is simply untrue.

"We are approached by a huge number of media outlets regarding a myriad of projects, only a tiny proportion of which we agree to.

"Each proposal is considered on whether it is likely to have a positive effect, either directly or indirectly on the search for Madeleine."

He added that there had been a "preliminary discussion" with a production company about a documentary on the issues the family had faced since the disappearance of their daughter.
 
 
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on January 10, 2008, 08:10:25 PM
I hope those PIs got the sack.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on January 13, 2008, 01:01:30 PM
Madeleine: No film will be made unless she's found - alive or dead
By IAN GALLAGHER - More by this author » Last updated at 00:47am on 13th January 2008

Kate and Gerry McCann have been told that the proposed documentary about their daughter's disappearance can go ahead only if she is found – alive or dead.

At a meeting last month with entertainment agency IMG, it was explained to the couple's representatives that the search for four-year-old Madeleine must reach a 'conclusion' before production on the film can begin.

A source said: 'It was awkward to raise but there would need to be an ending – either Madeleine being found alive or a body being discovered.

Impersonator: Kelsey Lynn Kudla's services are for sale. It was eight months ago that Madeleine vanished

"If this wasn't the case, and there was a major development after filming and editing, it could render the documentary redundant."

Channel 4 and production company Darlow Smithson are handling the controversial project and have lined up highly regarded director Louise Osmond.

It is thought a film could earn the McCanns as much as £2million, which would help towards the cost of the search for their daughter, who disappeared from the family's holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal, last May.

The couple's official spokesman, Clarence Mitchell said they would consider only "something done sensitively and considerately".

The proposed documentary about missing Madeleine McCann can only go ahead if she is found
It is believed that the McCanns' representatives were attracted to the proposal because of a previous Darlow Smithson documentary about a teenage girl who vanished in the United States in 2002.

The 14-year-old was snatched from her bedroom in Salt Lake City by a religious maniac but found safe nine months later.

There was another blow for the McCanns yesterday when the authorities in Morocco – identified by their detective agency Metodo 3 as a key area in the search for Madeleine – declared there was "no evidence of her being here".


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=507918&in_page_id=1770 (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=507918&in_page_id=1770)

I'd say the Holywood blockbuster is just around the corner. 
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on January 13, 2008, 01:14:16 PM
was watching news 24 when this broke and they kept refering to making a documentary on the abduction of Maddie, now unless there has been some new evidence I cannot remember this being proven yet.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Minder on January 13, 2008, 01:51:35 PM
I remember half joking to someone a few months back, when the Mc Canns were on their world tour, "when was the film out?" They have once again shown appalling taste.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: gaagaa on January 18, 2008, 12:39:50 PM
any more word on the child who was taken about 100 miles from the spot madeleine was abducted from?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ziggysego on January 18, 2008, 12:51:08 PM
any more word on the child who was taken about 100 miles from the spot madeleine was abducted from?

No. I guess her parent's aren't middle-class white doctors.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: oiddas on January 18, 2008, 12:52:02 PM
Or the thousands of kids that are abducted around the world - almost daily!!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ziggysego on January 19, 2008, 11:23:41 PM
The face of the man it is claimed may have abducted Madeleine McCann has been unveiled by a Sunday newspaper.
A police artist sketched the likeness after the News of the World tracked down a holidaymaker it claims could be an important witness.

The photofit shows a man with long hair, bushy eyebrows and a moustache. The paper says it has passed the picture to Interpol.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

According to the News of the World, the witness, Jane Tanner, was staying with her family 600 yards from the McCann's apartment on the Algarve.

It said she rang police when she saw Madeleine, of Rothley, Leicestershire, was missing and gave a police statement to the local force reporting a "creepy man" in the area.

Gary Thompson, an associate editor at the News of the World, told the BBC the picture was being taken seriously.

"The picture has been passed to Interpol, police in Portugal and also in Leicestershire, so the important thing is - who is he? Where is he now?" he said.

"We'll be urging all our readers in the morning to get in touch with the authorities if they've got any information at all about this man."

Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on January 20, 2008, 12:21:21 AM
I'm sorry but my first reaction to seeing that picture is  :D
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Aerlik on January 20, 2008, 12:26:34 AM
I thought George Harrison died in 2001?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: J70 on January 20, 2008, 01:44:10 AM
I thought George Harrison died in 2001?


That was my first reaction too! ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on January 20, 2008, 04:06:36 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7198450.stm
Quote

Madeleine 'suspect' images issued
   
Sketches of suspect released by family of Madeleine McCann
The family's spokesman Clarence Mitchell released the images

The family of Madeleine McCann have released sketches of a man they believe may have abducted the four-year-old.

An artist drew two likenesses of the man from a witness statement made by a holidaymaker who stayed in the same Portuguese resort as the McCanns.

Madeleine vanished on 3 May 2007, while on holiday on the Algarve.

One picture shows a man with long hair, bushy eyebrows and a moustache. Another image shows him walking in a light jacket and blue trousers.

   
We want to know who he is and we want to know where he is
Clarence Mitchell, McCanns' spokesman

Family spokesman Clarence Mitchell said the description came from British holidaymaker Gail Cooper, who was staying with her family 600 yards from the McCann's apartment in Praia da Luz at the same time.

He said she rang Portuguese police when she saw Madeleine, of Rothley, Leicestershire, was missing and gave a statement reporting a "creepy man" she had seen in the area.

Mr Mitchell said: "We want to know who he is and we want to know where he is. We want to know that as soon as we can. We are asking for people's help today.

"If he isn't connected with Madeleine's abduction, at the very least he now needs to come forward himself so that he can be eliminated from both the police and the private investigations that are under way into Madeleine's disappearance."

Mr Mitchell said the sketches made by an FBI-accredited police artist had only recently been commissioned from the McCann's private investigation into the disappearance of their daughter.

He said Mrs Cooper, from Newark, Nottinghamshire, "of course gave this information about the man and his activities to the police back in May.

"That information has been with the police since then, however, no sketch of the man has actually been commissioned or done until now."

'Nervous'

Ms Cooper said she saw the man walking by himself in heavy rain on the beach near the resort on 20 April last year. She said he drew attention to himself because he was the only man on "the otherwise deserted beach".

She said later that afternoon she believed the same man visited Ms Cooper at the resort while her eight-year-old granddaughter was playing near the pool.

She described the man as "agitated, nervous" and that he may have been of North African descent. The man claimed he was collecting for an orphanage at a nearby village.

He flashed some sort of ID which she believed was fake, Mr Mitchell said, and she told him to leave.

Mr Mitchell said there were "similarities" between the images released on Sunday and other artist's sketches released last year.

These showed a man with dark, greasy collar-length hair and wearing a purple or maroon top with beige trousers, carrying a child, which were made after a testimony from Jane Tanner, a friend of the McCanns.

Madeleine's parents Gerry and Kate McCann remain official suspects in the case, but have always denied any involvement in her disappearance.

Briton Robert Murat is also a suspect in the case. A judge is considering whether to extend the period of judicial secrecy covering police evidence against Mr Murat, who also denies any involvement.

That's nearly as good as Robert Murat being suspected because he wouldn't give a journalist his mobile number  ::)
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: seanf on January 27, 2008, 09:26:39 PM
Papers today are quoting a siting in Columbia!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Norf Tyrone on March 14, 2008, 02:23:09 PM
Maybe there is another thread for it, but apparently that young girl Shannon Matthews (Think that's the name) has been found....

....alive!!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: wherefromreferee? on March 14, 2008, 04:38:42 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_yorkshire/7296756.stm
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on March 14, 2008, 07:33:41 PM
thats a brilliant result for all concerned.

Great to see and I honestly thought she was dead and buried.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Minder on March 14, 2008, 08:59:14 PM
Extremely rare for a child to be found alive after that period of time, allegedley the 39 year old man arrested is part of the mothers extended family. They seem to be a rare crowd.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: glenullinabu on March 15, 2008, 07:40:36 PM
any more word on the child who was taken about 100 miles from the spot madeleine was abducted from?

i read she was found dead in a river last week
only able to identify her by the clothes
god help the family
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on March 15, 2008, 07:53:41 PM
Extremely rare for a child to be found alive after that period of time, allegedley the 39 year old man arrested is part of the mothers extended family. They seem to be a rare crowd.

it was the step fathers uncle
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Minder on March 15, 2008, 07:57:48 PM
Aye so i see,have we had the world exclusive interview with the ma talking to the Sun yet?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on March 15, 2008, 08:03:30 PM
not yet, but there is still time. wonder did some one tell the police to claim the 50 gran, no doubt that an exclusive interview will happen with the claimee if they did tell the police
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Uladh on March 19, 2008, 11:47:26 AM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7304556.stm

Proper order. editor heads should roll
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on March 19, 2008, 03:39:32 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7304556.stm

Proper order. editor heads should roll

Weren't these the sort of (libellous) stories used by some on here to try and discredit the McCanns in the past?   ::)
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on March 19, 2008, 05:33:16 PM
So after 26 days Shannon is found alive and well, thank God for that.

So where were the great and the good and the national campaign to find her? where were the collections for a fund? where were the photos in peoples windows below the Find Maddie caption? ( I do hope she is safe) where were the publicists, media spokespeople, legal team and all that?

I wonder is it anything to do with the the fact she is not middle class and from a dysfunctional family?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Norf Tyrone on March 19, 2008, 05:58:32 PM
So after 26 days Shannon is found alive and well, thank God for that.

So where were the great and the good and the national campaign to find her? where were the collections for a fund? where were the photos in peoples windows below the Find Maddie caption? ( I do hope she is safe) where were the publicists, media spokespeople, legal team and all that?

I wonder is it anything to do with the the fact she is not middle class and from a dysfunctional family?

At work last week I asked people, 'what was Shannon's second name'?

Only one knew...
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ExiledGael on March 19, 2008, 05:59:27 PM
That class argument has got nothing to do with this. Dysfunctional family has everything to do with it as it was almost certain since day one that it was a close connection to the family/area that was guilty, the police knew that.
Madeleine McCann went missing in a foreign country where only a handful of people knew her.
Immediately after Shannon Matthews disappeared the police said they were confining their search to the local area and never left that five mile radius. No cash was needed, just manpower, and there were far more police on the Shannon Matthews search than there were looking for Madeleine McCann, the largest force deployed for a hunt since the Yorkshire Ripper.
Something led the police to restrict their search to the area, and the in-laws extended family were suspects from the start. Two extremely different sets of circumstances here, and it's unfair on the McCann's to criticise them for giving everything they can to the search for their daughter.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on March 19, 2008, 06:28:04 PM
The facts are that two children went missing, one in a foreigh country, the other in England, one was middle class and there was a massive search for her, the other was working class from a dysfunctional family and there wasnt.


I think Norf T quote of "At work last week I asked people, 'what was Shannon's second name'?

Only one knew..."  sums the coverage of both cases up very well


Why is it unfair to critise the McCanns?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on March 19, 2008, 06:40:46 PM
So after 26 days Shannon is found alive and well, thank God for that.

So where were the great and the good and the national campaign to find her? where were the collections for a fund? where were the photos in peoples windows below the Find Maddie caption? ( I do hope she is safe) where were the publicists, media spokespeople, legal team and all that?

I wonder is it anything to do with the the fact she is not middle class and from a dysfunctional family?



The facts are that two children went missing, one in a foreigh country, the other in England, one was middle class and there was a massive search for her, the other was working class from a dysfunctional family and there wasnt.


I think Norf T quote of "At work last week I asked people, 'what was Shannon's second name'?

Only one knew..."  sums the coverage of both cases up very well


Why is it unfair to critise the McCanns?

Two interesting quotes there SB - just clarify for me, the scenario that you outlined in the first quote above, is there a direct connection with your second quote, where you state  Why is it unfair to critise the McCanns? From reading the two quotes, I get the impression that in your mind, the McCanns are somehow to be criticised for the state of events that you outlined in your first quote, i.e. doubl standards by the media and / or public!

If there is no connecton, could you please explain to me (I'm a little slow) what exactly you are arguing?



Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ExiledGael on March 19, 2008, 06:42:03 PM
Dealing in facts than - it's unfair to criticise two parents for seeking publicity and public help to find their lost daughter, simple as that. Are you criticising them for something else?

It was accepted (almost) from the start that Madeleine McCann was abducted by an unknown intruder.
It was accepted from the start that Shannon Matthews was lifted by someone close to the family/area who knew the girl.
The two are not similar cases so you can't judge the effects of class to the case in relative terms.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on March 19, 2008, 07:01:11 PM
I am not criticising the McCanns for utilising the media, and certainly if I was in their shoes I would have attempted to do the same thing,  I am blaming the media and the lack of coverage on the Shannon case.


I simply posed the question, why is it unfair to criticise the McCanns, did I criticise them?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on March 19, 2008, 11:31:55 PM
I simply posed the question, why is it unfair to criticise the McCanns, did I criticise them?

I cannot see where you criticised them, and I am at a loss as to why you would ask that.

You did though write, why is it unfair to criticise the McCanns , and I would suggest it is implicit in that question that you believe it is fair to criticise the McCanns. The fact that you raised this with the issue of discrepancies between the find Shannon and find Maddie campaigns, had me completely at a loss, and prompted my question.

You appear (to me) to now declared that there is no connection.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: unforgiven on March 20, 2008, 12:48:35 AM
I wonder is Madeline hiding in a Divan bed base too.

Rumours are that Osama Bin Laden is using a Divan to hide from the americans
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: glenullinabu on March 21, 2008, 11:02:37 PM
I wonder is Madeline hiding in a Divan bed base too.

Rumours are that Osama Bin Laden is using a Divan to hide from the americans

d**khead >:(
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Minder on April 06, 2008, 10:45:00 PM
The police leading the investigation into the disappearance of Shannon Matthews are investigating the theory that the whole thing was a set up by the family to gain money from the media.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Armaghtothebone on April 07, 2008, 01:05:21 PM
It now turns out that Gerry McCann has six other children by 5 other wives in 3 different continents.
His uncle is a paedoephile with at least 4 restraining orders taken out against him by four different women.
Lo and behold Kates sister and sister-in-law were invloved too!

OH NO WAIT A MINUTE THATS SHANNON'S "PARENTS"

The cops have a lovely phrase to cover certain things
"xxxxx was known to local police"

Whats the odds the entire Mathews clan falls into the "known to local police" category?
 
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ludermor on April 07, 2008, 02:19:51 PM
any chance we can have the last reply in english?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: gaagaa on April 10, 2008, 08:26:28 PM
coming up to a year now - are there any rumours going around of potential sightings?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: gaagaa on April 11, 2008, 08:53:06 PM
read this story today - the parents were wrong but lets not forget the child is the one paying the heaviest price
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: glenullinabu on May 02, 2008, 10:13:55 PM
Remember Madeleine McCann - somebody somewhere knows something - hard to believe its been a year - God help the child
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Double Cross on May 02, 2008, 11:20:11 PM
Just when you thought madeleine McCann was pissing it in the world hide and seek championships, an Austrian pops up with 24 years in a cellar.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: spiritof91and94 on May 03, 2008, 09:04:29 PM
Just when you thought madeleine McCann was pissing it in the world hide and seek championships, an Austrian pops up with 24 years in a cellar.


God you are some craic double
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Square Ball on July 21, 2008, 04:51:23 PM
where to now for this?

Madeleine police inquiry shelved 

The police investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann has been shelved, Portugal's attorney general has said.

The child's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, and a third British national, Robert Murat are no longer formal suspects he also confirmed.

Her parents said they were "relieved" to be cleared of any involvement, but there was "no degree of celebration".

Madeleine, of Rothley, Leicestershire, disappeared on 3 May 2007, aged three.

The McCanns and Mr Murat all strongly denied any involvement in Madeleine's disappearance from her holiday apartment in the Portuguese resort of Praia da Luz.

And attorney-general Fernando Jose Pinto Monteiro said the 14-month investigation had uncovered no evidence of a crime by any of them.

Speaking after the announcement, the McCanns' spokesman Clarence Mitchell said: "It's far too early to give their immediate reaction yet, but they are, of course, liaising closely with their lawyers in Portugal and Britain," he said.

"Once they have digested the content of the attorney-general's statement and any implications, they will give a reaction a little later this evening."

Libel case

The BBC's Alison Roberts, who is in Portugal, said the McCanns would now be able to apply for access to the police case files, which they hope could help their own private investigators search for their daughter.

Mr Mitchell said: "The main thing now is to get everything back to finding Madeleine. All of this has damaged their good reputations and they will have to assess where they go from here."

Detectives submitted their final report at the start of July to prosecutors.


Former lead detective Goncalo Moral talks to Steve Kingstone
Last week Mr Murat received a £600,000 settlement and apology after a libel claim over allegations in 11 UK newspapers.

In March Mr and Mrs McCann reached a libel settlement and got an apology from Express Newspapers for suggesting they were responsible for her death.

In an interview with the BBC, Goncalo Amaral - the former police chief leading the Madeleine inquiry - said he believed she was dead.   We tried and we worked hard, so we can't be accused of incompetence or failure

Goncalo Amaral
Former head of Madeleine inquiry 

"The evidence that we had gathered by the time that I left the case pointed to the girl being dead - and having died inside the apartment," he said.

"I don't know what happened next, I can't say. We'll have to wait for the case files to be made public."

Mr Amaral was removed from the case last October after reportedly criticising the British police.

He is now publishing a book about the investigation and denied that Portuguese police had failed to carry it out properly.

"Let's wait, and people will see that the Portuguese police and the British police did a good job - because various British agencies were involved.

"We tried and we worked hard, so we can't be accused of incompetence or failure."

Mr Amaral also insisted that despite them being made formal suspects, there was "no persecution" of the McCanns.

"The police don't want to persecute anyone - just to investigate what happened in a given case," he said.



 
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: glenullinabu on July 21, 2008, 11:37:01 PM
The BBC's Alison Roberts, who is in Portugal, said the McCanns would now be able to apply for access to the police case files, which they hope could help their own private investigators search for their daughter.

do we really believe that theyll get all the papers in the file?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: youngfella on July 21, 2008, 11:38:39 PM
they got away with the prefect crime, may they rot in hell
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Minder on July 22, 2008, 08:56:30 AM
Its the way you tell them Double Cross.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: scud on July 22, 2008, 10:12:18 AM

What's the difference between Maddy McCann and Pope John Paul the second?


I'm a newbie, will i get banned for a punchline?

It still continues to amaze me how effective the McCann PR machine is. I was watching ITV last night and they're now towing the party line - that it was a disgrace the McCann's were investigated, 'how much damage it caused the hunt for maddy will never be known' etc etc

Statistically, the likelihood of a complete stranger walking off the street, just happening to find unminded children in an unlocked apartment is so low that it would be amazing if the McCann's hadn't been investigated
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: glenullinabu on July 22, 2008, 07:21:31 PM
Statistically, the likelihood of a complete stranger walking off the street, just happening to find unminded children in an unlocked apartment is so low that it would be amazing if the McCann's hadn't been investigated

those paedos are really thick - they wouldnt be able to spot patterns of parents leaving kids unattended ::)
imagine what would happen if they could learn how to switch on computers

what a pile of shite you ar eposting
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Yes I Would on July 22, 2008, 11:31:41 PM
Whatever the outcome it has been a f**king tragedy. Hopefully the truth will come out someday.

I just hope to god the parents werent invloved, as i cant think of a more evil deed.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Uladh on July 23, 2008, 01:08:20 AM

Looks like we'll never know what happened. for what its worth, i believe the McCanns are guilty of serious neglect but no more.

this whole case really gets to me when i think of that helpless little girl taken in the night. i have as sadistic and stinging a sense of humour as the next man. i also hate this pc police thing around jokes. i laugh at most things, no matter if i shouldn't. but i really can't stomach maddie jokes.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: scud on July 23, 2008, 01:08:03 PM
Statistically, the likelihood of a complete stranger walking off the street, just happening to find unminded children in an unlocked apartment is so low that it would be amazing if the McCann's hadn't been investigated

those paedos are really thick - they wouldnt be able to spot patterns of parents leaving kids unattended ::)
imagine what would happen if they could learn how to switch on computers

what a pile of shite you ar eposting

And how do you suppose these 'paedos' discover these patterns you mention? Stake out apartment buildings in the hope of a lucky break??

I'm not saying they did it, but I see nothing unreasonable in investigating them.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: glenullinabu on July 23, 2008, 08:41:12 PM
And how do you suppose these 'paedos' discover these patterns you mention? Stake out apartment buildings in the hope of a lucky break??

exactly - how many careless (for want of a worse word) leave their children unattended when on holiday
cant believe how many people admitted to doing same thing - pure laziness and neglect
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on July 23, 2008, 08:45:43 PM
I still think they were involved. 

The very least they should be doing jail time for is child neglect.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ExiledGael on July 23, 2008, 08:59:28 PM
Jail time for not having an eye on your child at all times?
I'd imagine there's a point at every day in life where a parent is not exactly sure where their child (walking age) is, even if it's just in and around the house.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on July 23, 2008, 09:01:29 PM
Jail time for not having an eye on your child at all times?
I'd imagine there's a point at every day in life where a parent is not exactly sure where their child (walking age) is, even if it's just in and around the house.

Yes but that's not the same thing as the McCann's done is it - they left their children at home and headed out to the pub/restaurant.
That's neglect in most people's eyes I would imagine.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Minder on July 23, 2008, 11:00:42 PM
I would imagine the father has paid a price already but its another sign of the consumer culture we live in where parents spend ridiculous amounts of money on their children, with tragic consequences.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: maddog on August 05, 2008, 10:08:28 AM
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/48-Questions-Kate-McCann-Faced-from-Portugese-Police/Article/200808115070874?lpos=World%2BNews_1&lid=ARTICLE_15070874_48%2BQuestions%2BKate%2BMcCann%2BFaced%2Bfrom%2BPortugese%2BPolice (http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/48-Questions-Kate-McCann-Faced-from-Portugese-Police/Article/200808115070874?lpos=World%2BNews_1&lid=ARTICLE_15070874_48%2BQuestions%2BKate%2BMcCann%2BFaced%2Bfrom%2BPortugese%2BPolice)


Seems strange to me that she wouldnt be co-operating on every level in order to assist the investigation. I'd say now we will never know what happened.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Hound on August 05, 2008, 12:45:39 PM
Crikey, some interview. I fail to see how the "right to silence" is ever helpful in bringing about justice. You should be left with the choice of telling the truth or lying, and liars are, more often than not, caught out.

However, I can see why she refused to answer. Whether guilty or innocent, those 48 questions had nothing to do with finding Maddie, and all to do with implicating Kate - therefore any lawyer would have told her to keep her mouth closed. If innocent, I don't think she'd have anything to gain by answering.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: maddog on August 05, 2008, 12:48:51 PM
Crikey, some interview. I fail to see how the "right to silence" is ever helpful in bringing about justice. You should be left with the choice of telling the truth or lying, and liars are, more often than not, caught out.

However, I can see why she refused to answer. Whether guilty or innocent, those 48 questions had nothing to do with finding Maddie, and all to do with implicating Kate - therefore any lawyer would have told her to keep her mouth closed. If innocent, I don't think she'd have anything to gain by answering.


Fair enough point. If you were in that position (i.e innocent and going out of your head wondering where your child was) you would imagine it would be very difficult to take those questions without biting.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Rossie11 on August 05, 2008, 12:54:58 PM
Quote
If innocent, I don't think she'd have anything to gain by answering.
and if guilty she would have a lot to gain by not answering..
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Capt Pat on August 05, 2008, 05:06:17 PM
Crikey, some interview. I fail to see how the "right to silence" is ever helpful in bringing about justice. You should be left with the choice of telling the truth or lying, and liars are, more often than not, caught out.

However, I can see why she refused to answer. Whether guilty or innocent, those 48 questions had nothing to do with finding Maddie, and all to do with implicating Kate - therefore any lawyer would have told her to keep her mouth closed. If innocent, I don't think she'd have anything to gain by answering


No, that is called the police doing their job and interviewing a suspect. If they had arrested a known peadophile and they had refused to answer the questions would you say that is ok as they were simply trying to implicate him. Do you call sitting in a police station for 11 hours and refusing to answer any questions co-operating with the police. If the parents did not co-operate with the police, how do you expect them to find the child. She answered one bloody question. This will show how helpful she was to the police. The one question she answered.

Q.  Are you aware that in not answering the questions you are jeopardising the investigation, which seeks to discover what happened to your daughter?


A.  'Yes, if that’s what the investigation thinks.'

This case gets strangere and stranger. The UK based DNA expert did not say it was not maddies DNA. He said"We cannot answer the question: is the match genuine, or is it a chance match?" I think that what that means reading between the lines is that it was a match.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Hound on August 05, 2008, 05:13:30 PM
Any and every lawyer would have told their client, whether innocent or guilty, not to answer any of those questions.

Of course the police were trying to do their job, but if their case was based on trying to get someone to implicate themselves, then they were never going to get a result. FFS, didnt even get a trial never mind get within an asses roar of a conviction.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Capt Pat on August 05, 2008, 05:22:53 PM
I am sorry but her daughter went missing, why would she not answer the questions? She could have answered those questions in an hour and a half and gone home instead of having an 11 hour standoff in the police station. again, why did she not answer the questions? Why would answering the questions have implicated her, if she was completely innocent? Did you read the questions, they look fairly damning on their own, the fact that kate refused to answer them does not really help her case. I have to say that if she was not guilty she should have answered the questions and nothing more could have come of it. Despite the spin being put on this by some of the British press this looks pretty damaging to the McCanns.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Hound on August 05, 2008, 05:29:00 PM
She didnt answer the questions because she is not an idiot.

If my lawyer told me to do something, if I was accused of something, I would do exactly as he told me. The questions had nothing to do with finding the girl, and all to do with trying to implicate the mother.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Capt Pat on August 05, 2008, 05:53:11 PM
The thing is though, Kate is caught between a rock and a hard place on this one. It is her child that is missing and she is accused, if she does not co-operate with the police, she is the key witness after all, how does she expect the police to find her daughter. If she is guilty she still has to answer the questions or she will look as if she has something to hide. It is quite simple if she has nothing to hide simply answer the questions and walk away in 90 minutes.

"She didnt answer the questions because she is not an idiot." you seem to be implying that she is guilty. Oh I suppose the police are always trying to frame doctors with expensive legal teams and pr machines looking after them. Get real if they were trying to frame someone they would have gone afte the local Village idiot and hung him out to dry. They could not even get this woman to answer a few straight forward and simple questions relating to the disappearance of her own child. How can this be? kate McCann not answering any questions whether she is guilty or innocent stinks to high heaven. Behaving like she did in that police interview shold push most right thinking people into thinking that she might be guilty.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Hound on August 05, 2008, 05:58:48 PM
"She didnt answer the questions because she is not an idiot." you seem to be implying that she is guilty. Oh I suppose the police are always trying to frame doctors with expensive legal teams and pr machines looking after them. Get real if they were trying to frame someone they would have gone afte the local Village idiot and hung him out to dry. They could not even get this woman to answer a few straight forward and simple questions relating to the disappearance of her own child. How can this be? kate McCann not answering any questions whether she is guilty or innocent stinks to high heaven. Behaving like she did in that police interview shold push most right thinking people into thinking that she might be guilty.
I did not imply she was guilty, nor that she was being framed.
She was a suspect.
Perhaps you should "get real".
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Capt Pat on August 05, 2008, 06:10:54 PM
It is usually only guilty people who don't answer questions. People with nothing to hide should be able to answer questions in order to clear things up and move the investigation along, why was Kate unable to do this? Saying "She didn't answer the questions because she is not an idiot" does imply that she may well have something to hide. I can't change the fact that you said that or what it means.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Hound on August 05, 2008, 06:21:53 PM
Saying "She didn't answer the questions because she is not an idiot" does imply that she may well have something to hide. I can't change the fact that you said that or what it means.
No it does not imply she has something to hide. It implies that she has the sense to do what her lawyers tell her.
But you not being able to comprehend that explains your posts.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on August 05, 2008, 08:50:07 PM
Quote
It is usually only guilty people who don't answer questions. People with nothing to hide should be able to answer questions in order to clear things up and move the investigation along,

Agree, if you're accused of something in the wrong you'd be only too keen to answer questions to clear your name particularly if you had an interest in finding out who was actually involved. 

What were these questions anyway? I can't imagine what she'd be afraid to answer (everyone knew/knows she, at best, is a negligent parent) if she had nothing to hide.

Guilty as sin.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: heganboy on August 05, 2008, 08:52:54 PM
Quote
Guilty as sin.

Thanks Poirot- prove it.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on August 05, 2008, 09:00:49 PM
Quote
Guilty as sin.

Thanks Poirot- prove it.
We've all been over the case before, guilty as sin.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: An Fear Rua on August 06, 2008, 09:25:42 AM
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/maddie/article1519472.ece (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/maddie/article1519472.ece)

'My name is Maddie and she's not my mummy'
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: spiritof91and94 on September 11, 2008, 01:49:31 PM
I'm not going to post the link but I see there's been a website set up counting down until Maddie McCann "is of legal age"!  :o ::)

F**k you are sad.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ziggysego on September 11, 2008, 03:01:13 PM
Jesus, the sun must be getting to you.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: seanf on December 14, 2008, 09:33:59 PM
Any word on the wee lass? ???

 News seems to have gone quiet!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Old Bill on December 15, 2008, 12:59:07 AM
Thus case has been overshadowed at the moment by the Baby P and Karen Matthew story altho once the journos have a slow news day, they will reel off some front page story which is full of sh1t. The lead detective in the case has released a book in portugal, which is very damning on the McCanns but Brit publishers wont touch it with a Bargepole.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Uladh on January 10, 2009, 02:07:44 PM

McCanns' anger at Tory activist

Kate and Gerry McCann have condemned a Conservative activist who boasted about dressing up as Madeleine McCann at a party, calling his actions "offensive".

Matthew Lewis has now apologised "unreservedly" to the McCanns. He was expelled from the party after telling friends of his New Year party exploits.

Tory chairman Caroline Spelman said the Conservative Future activist's actions were "completely unacceptable".

Madeleine was three in 2007 when she vanished during a holiday in Portugal.

'Regret'

Despite a worldwide hunt, there has been no trace of her since.

In a statement released on Friday, Mr Lewis said: "I unreservedly apologise to Mr and Mrs McCann for my actions.

"I completely regret my behaviour that night and since, and cannot express how sorry I am for the incredible hurt I have caused.

"Whilst my actions were not meant to be malicious, I fully understand the pain they have brought."

  This offensive behaviour is not only shocking but intolerable and completely unacceptable

Caroline Spelman

Mr Lewis, who is believed to studying in London, told friends on the Facebook website that he planned to attend a party dressed as Madeleine McCann.

He said his costume would include "pink pyjamas, a teddy bear and a vial of fake blood".

After the party, Mr Lewis used the website to tell another Conservative Future member that "there was a brief moment when I thought I might have gone too far with elements of the costume but it was OK".

Mr Lewis was listed by Conservative Future as its branch chairman in Staffordshire although he is reported to have resigned from the position last month.

Staffordshire Conservative Future's website now lists the post of chairman as "vacant".

He was pictured campaigning alongside Tory leader David Cameron during last year's Crewe and Nantwich by-election.

A spokesman for the McCanns said his actions were "offensive almost beyond belief".

 
Kate and Gerry McCann are demanding an apology

"His actions are not only disgraceful in themselves, they will also cause great hurt to Kate and Gerry," he said.

"It is a complete disgrace that Madeleine's name and image should be made fun of in this way."

But the spokesman praised the "swift and appropriate" action taken by the Conservatives against Mr Lewis.

In a statement, Conservative Central Office said there was "no place for this sort of person in the party".

"This offensive behaviour is not only shocking but intolerable and completely unacceptable," Mrs Spelman said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7820727.stm




What a f**king w**ker
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on January 10, 2009, 02:09:21 PM
And idiot of the year award goes to .....
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ziggysego on January 10, 2009, 02:10:43 PM
Saw that on the news last night and couldn't believe what I was seeing. Deserves a kicking and I'm glad he was kicked of the party.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: doire na raithe on January 10, 2009, 02:24:30 PM
Some people have no sense of humour these days.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on January 10, 2009, 02:25:54 PM
Some people have no sense of humour these days.
Why is a 3 year old disappearing as funny as a 16 year old dying?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: doire na raithe on January 10, 2009, 02:29:25 PM
wow wow! Don't get ahead of yourself there pints, I was talking about the Tory having no sense of humour.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on January 10, 2009, 02:30:45 PM
Fair enough.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Doogie Browser on May 07, 2009, 08:27:02 PM
Cutting Edge documentary on C4 tonight at 9pm should be worth watching folks.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: orangeman on May 07, 2009, 09:39:19 PM
Cutting Edge documentary on C4 tonight at 9pm should be worth watching folks.

Gut wrenching stuff.


Interesting to note the hostility shown to Gerry Mc Cann from the locals in Portugal when he returns to Praia da Luz. Their economy has been badly affected by the Maddy story. How / why do they blame Gerry Mc Cann ??
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Doogie Browser on May 07, 2009, 09:49:58 PM
Cutting Edge documentary on C4 tonight at 9pm should be worth watching folks.

Gut wrenching stuff.


Interesting to note the hostility shown to Gerry Mc Cann from the locals in Portugal when he returns to Praia da Luz. Their economy has been badly affected by the Maddy story. How / why do they blame Gerry Mc Cann ??
They associate (obviously) the parents with the adverse publicity the resort has received since, its obvious they have little or no sympathy for him which is sad.  Pretty ruthless stance to be honest, as it is a little girl who has been abducted regardless. 
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on May 07, 2009, 09:58:21 PM
Cutting Edge documentary on C4 tonight at 9pm should be worth watching folks.

Gut wrenching stuff.


Interesting to note the hostility shown to Gerry Mc Cann from the locals in Portugal when he returns to Praia da Luz. Their economy has been badly affected by the Maddy story. How / why do they blame Gerry Mc Cann ??
They associate (obviously) the parents with the adverse publicity the resort has received since, its obvious they have little or no sympathy for him which is sad.  Pretty ruthless stance to be honest, as it is a little girl who has been abducted regardless. 
Well that's debatable. 

ripping I missed the programme!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ardmhachaabu on May 07, 2009, 10:04:30 PM
Pints, I am not going to start reading the thread as that would be madness, can you summarise your views on this and why you hold them?

Just interested as I have always believed in the integrity of the parents and having watched the show, I feel even more that they had no part in their daughter's disappearance
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: orangeman on May 07, 2009, 10:04:50 PM
Cutting Edge documentary on C4 tonight at 9pm should be worth watching folks.

Gut wrenching stuff.


Interesting to note the hostility shown to Gerry Mc Cann from the locals in Portugal when he returns to Praia da Luz. Their economy has been badly affected by the Maddy story. How / why do they blame Gerry Mc Cann ??
They associate (obviously) the parents with the adverse publicity the resort has received since, its obvious they have little or no sympathy for him which is sad.  Pretty ruthless stance to be honest, as it is a little girl who has been abducted regardless. 
Well that's debatable.  

ripping I missed the programme!


Police seem certain now that she was indeed abducted. Do you think otherwise ?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Doogie Browser on May 07, 2009, 10:05:44 PM
Cutting Edge documentary on C4 tonight at 9pm should be worth watching folks.

Gut wrenching stuff.


Interesting to note the hostility shown to Gerry Mc Cann from the locals in Portugal when he returns to Praia da Luz. Their economy has been badly affected by the Maddy story. How / why do they blame Gerry Mc Cann ??
They associate (obviously) the parents with the adverse publicity the resort has received since, its obvious they have little or no sympathy for him which is sad.  Pretty ruthless stance to be honest, as it is a little girl who has been abducted regardless. 
Well that's debatable. 

ripping I missed the programme!

Channel 4+1??
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on May 07, 2009, 10:21:36 PM
Pints, I am not going to start reading the thread as that would be madness, can you summarise your views on this and why you hold them?

Just interested as I have always believed in the integrity of the parents and having watched the show, I feel even more that they had no part in their daughter's disappearance
I dont know, but I think it's debatable. 
One thing is certain though, they were responsible for whatever happened her.  Who leaves a child alone to head to a restaurant. 

It's sad that the little girl has never been found but what's even sadder is the countless children who have disapeared since then but we never hear about them, no world wide appeals because their parents arent white doctors.  That's the saddest thing about the whole case imo.


Dont have access to that channel DB
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Doogie Browser on May 07, 2009, 10:25:55 PM
Its all ok as an ex-RUC man is doing the investigation now
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ardmhachaabu on May 07, 2009, 10:56:23 PM
Pints, I am not going to start reading the thread as that would be madness, can you summarise your views on this and why you hold them?

Just interested as I have always believed in the integrity of the parents and having watched the show, I feel even more that they had no part in their daughter's disappearance
I dont know, but I think it's debatable. 
One thing is certain though, they were responsible for whatever happened her.  Who leaves a child alone to head to a restaurant. 

It's sad that the little girl has never been found but what's even sadder is the countless children who have disapeared since then but we never hear about them, no world wide appeals because their parents arent white doctors.  That's the saddest thing about the whole case imo.


Dont have access to that channel DB
Right, the bit I bolded I take issue with.  If you had seen tonight's programme I don't think you could have been in any doubt that they were in any way responsible for Maddie's disappearance.  They aren't thought of as suspects now so I don't see what your problem is with them.

Everything else you said I agree with.  Either me and Mrs ardmhachaabu get a baby-sitter or we take the boy with us, holidays or not.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on May 07, 2009, 11:55:45 PM
Pints, I am not going to start reading the thread as that would be madness, can you summarise your views on this and why you hold them?

Just interested as I have always believed in the integrity of the parents and having watched the show, I feel even more that they had no part in their daughter's disappearance
I dont know, but I think it's debatable. 
One thing is certain though, they were responsible for whatever happened her.  Who leaves a child alone to head to a restaurant. 

It's sad that the little girl has never been found but what's even sadder is the countless children who have disapeared since then but we never hear about them, no world wide appeals because their parents arent white doctors.  That's the saddest thing about the whole case imo.


Dont have access to that channel DB
Right, the bit I bolded I take issue with.  If you had seen tonight's programme I don't think you could have been in any doubt that they were in any way responsible for Maddie's disappearance.  They aren't thought of as suspects now so I don't see what your problem is with them.

Everything else you said I agree with.  Either me and Mrs ardmhachaabu get a baby-sitter or we take the boy with us, holidays or not.
What was so special about tonight's programme that would change my mind?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: balladmaker on May 08, 2009, 12:05:25 AM
Quote
What was so special about tonight's programme that would change my mind?

Raw emotion of a mother and father who have lost their daughter.  It is clear that the fact they left her alone and defenseless is tearing them apart inside.  The account which Kate McCann gave in tonight's show, of when she returned to the apartment to find that Madeleine was missing, and how the curtains blew in from the window as she walked into the room, it seemed like a very genuine account to me.

As for the locals in the resort who shouted abuse at Gerry McCann on his return, and those who defaced the large bill board of Madeliene McCann, they are sick in the head.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ardmhachaabu on May 08, 2009, 12:09:48 AM
Pints, they revealed themselves more intimately than ever before, or so I thought anyway.  They allowed the cameras into their home with their twins and the twins talking about their sister...

If you are going to say that could be staged, then, yes it could but... I still believe the McCanns.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Rav67 on May 08, 2009, 01:02:39 AM
Cutting Edge documentary on C4 tonight at 9pm should be worth watching folks.

Gut wrenching stuff.


Interesting to note the hostility shown to Gerry Mc Cann from the locals in Portugal when he returns to Praia da Luz. Their economy has been badly affected by the Maddy story. How / why do they blame Gerry Mc Cann ??

Spent a couple of nights in th Algarve last summer and was chatting to a lot of locals in a bar one of the nights, the subject of the McCanns came up and they all believed they had killed her or arranged her abduction.  They said most people there thought they had something to do with it.

Personally I don't think for a second that not one, but two people who were well thought of could have kept up such a charade in the public eye and not cracked and not had any concrete evidence raised against them given the searches and the huge police investigation which followed.  They just couldn't have gotten away with it. 
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 08, 2009, 07:11:35 AM
The thing that gets me about the abduction is the selfishness of the adults.

Apparently there were 9 of them at the Tapas that night.  How difficult would it have been for one of them to take turns night about to sit in and mind all the children, that is even if they were insistnent on going out every night of their holiday?

Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: orangeman on May 08, 2009, 09:41:45 AM
The thing that gets me about the abduction is the selfishness of the adults.

Apparently there were 9 of them at the Tapas that night.  How difficult would it have been for one of them to take turns night about to sit in and mind all the children, that is even if they were insistnent on going out every night of their holiday?



We've all done something silly and irresponsible - the Mc Canns paid a high price. So let's not condemn them.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: SidelineKick on May 08, 2009, 09:47:21 AM
Orangeman dropping your trousers in the middle of a bar is silly, forgetting to lock your back door when you leave the house is irresponsible.  But leaving your 5 year old daughter alone in an apartment is far beyond this.  I don't think they have anuthing directly to do with her disappearance but I cannot comprehend their actions that night. Selfishness.  How many times had they done that before I wonder.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: DennistheMenace on May 08, 2009, 11:25:45 AM
It is a common practice amongst adults going on holidays to leave their children in bed asleep whilst they go to the bar and 'check on them' once in a while.
 
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Maiden1 on May 08, 2009, 11:42:28 AM
One of the first things I thought on this case was how the f&*k could you be so stupid to go out for a meal and leave your 3 children alone and leave the patio door open so that you wouldn't have to walk round the house but I know a girl who is a final year medical student you apparently is a genius, top of her class and all that but she has a very innocent view of the world.  She is from the south with a fairly strong accent but she would think nothing of taking a short cut home through the shankill road, get lost and stop and ask people for directions without realising she is in serious danger.  I sometimes think there may be some sort of inverse relationship between academic intelligence and common sense.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: The GAA on May 08, 2009, 11:46:37 AM
Very difficult show to watch last night. The unspoken guilt that is eating them is evident in everything they do and say - rightly so.

I don't believe for a second they were in any way connected to Madeleine's disappearance. the fact that they were guilty of wilful neglect with the highest of price paid doesn't detract for a second for me from the reality that there's a little girl gone and there's a possibility that she's out there somewhere. i donated to the find maddie fund this morning. if keeping those 2 detectives on the case a day longer prolongs the chancesof her being found then it a worthy cause in my book.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: SidelineKick on May 08, 2009, 03:52:33 PM
It is a common practice amongst adults going on holidays to leave their children in bed asleep whilst they go to the bar and 'check on them' once in a while.
 

Parent yourself Dennis?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: DennistheMenace on May 08, 2009, 04:28:16 PM
It is a common practice amongst adults going on holidays to leave their children in bed asleep whilst they go to the bar and 'check on them' once in a while.
 

Parent yourself Dennis?

No but I was a child once.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: longrunsthefox on May 08, 2009, 04:30:19 PM
It is a common practice amongst adults going on holidays to leave their children in bed asleep whilst they go to the bar and 'check on them' once in a while.
 

Parent yourself Dennis?

No but I was a child once.

...so was I!... well... a cub
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Norf Tyrone on May 08, 2009, 04:35:45 PM
It is a common practice amongst adults going on holidays to leave their children in bed asleep whilst they go to the bar and 'check on them' once in a while.
 

Parent yourself Dennis?

No but I was a child once.


And you parents left you alone, while they went to the bar?

I am sorry, but as a parent even pre the Madeline events the concept of doing this horrifies me.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: DennistheMenace on May 08, 2009, 04:39:57 PM
Only the naive will think this doesn't/didn't happen on a regular basis across many resorts across the world, it did and it does.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Norf Tyrone on May 08, 2009, 04:41:26 PM
Only the naive will think this doesn't/didn't happen on a regular basis across many resorts across the world, it did and it does.

Maybe it does... but I've never seen it.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: DennistheMenace on May 08, 2009, 04:43:25 PM
Then again most people won't advertise the fact that they have left their children alone or with a certified childminder.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: SidelineKick on May 08, 2009, 04:47:54 PM
I don't think its "common practice" as you put it though.  Obviously there will inevitably be bad parents out there but I wouldn't think its as common as you might suggest. Or maybe I'm being naive!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: balladmaker on May 08, 2009, 04:49:34 PM
I was in the Citywest Hotel over Easter, and noticed the couple at the restaurant table next to us had a baby monitor on the table with them.  So I assume they had left a child or children back asleep in the bedroom.

That alone horrified me, just the thought of doing it.

Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Gnevin on May 08, 2009, 04:51:13 PM
I was in the Citywest Hotel over Easter, and noticed the couple at the restaurant table next to us had a baby monitor on the table with them.  So I assume they had left a child or children back asleep in the bedroom.

That alone horrified me, just the thought of doing it.


Why its no different than being at home or do you sit and watch your baby 24/7 ?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Norf Tyrone on May 08, 2009, 04:53:06 PM
I was in the Citywest Hotel over Easter, and noticed the couple at the restaurant table next to us had a baby monitor on the table with them.  So I assume they had left a child or children back asleep in the bedroom.

That alone horrified me, just the thought of doing it.


Why its no different than being at home or do you sit and watch your baby 24/7 ?


What? When they are at home, they are in a secure environment.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Gnevin on May 08, 2009, 04:58:20 PM
I was in the Citywest Hotel over Easter, and noticed the couple at the restaurant table next to us had a baby monitor on the table with them.  So I assume they had left a child or children back asleep in the bedroom.

That alone horrified me, just the thought of doing it.


Why its no different than being at home or do you sit and watch your baby 24/7 ?

What? When they are at home, they are in a secure environment.
Wasn't there a case how too long a go where a ladder was put up to the window, someone broke in and someone attempted to run off with the child?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Norf Tyrone on May 08, 2009, 05:07:39 PM
I was in the Citywest Hotel over Easter, and noticed the couple at the restaurant table next to us had a baby monitor on the table with them.  So I assume they had left a child or children back asleep in the bedroom.

That alone horrified me, just the thought of doing it.


Why its no different than being at home or do you sit and watch your baby 24/7 ?

What? When they are at home, they are in a secure environment.
Wasn't there a case how too long a go where a ladder was put up to the window, someone broke in and someone attempted to run off with the child?
Never heard that, but the key word's in bold. People can attempt what they like, but deterrants help. Leaving your child alone in a hotel bedroom, and using a monitor as a deterrant is dodgey.

No offence Gnevin, but part of good parenting is providing a lifestyle, and environment where a child feels safe. If they can't feel safe in their own home, it will have a drastic affect on their pysche. If you have children, or when you have children don't paint the picture of life to them, that you do here. Sure make sure that they are not wide eyed and niave, but find a middle ground.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: longball on May 08, 2009, 05:09:14 PM
One of the first things I thought on this case was how the f&*k could you be so stupid to go out for a meal and leave your 3 children alone and leave the patio door open so that you wouldn't have to walk round the house but I know a girl who is a final year medical student you apparently is a genius, top of her class and all that but she has a very innocent view of the world.  She is from the south with a fairly strong accent but she would think nothing of taking a short cut home through the shankill road, get lost and stop and ask people for directions without realising she is in serious danger.  I sometimes think there may be some sort of inverse relationship between academic intelligence and common sense.

Some of the smartest people I know, in terms of booksmart, have no common sense at all. I still blame them thou I mean very very stupid thing to do are they still suspects?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Gnevin on May 08, 2009, 05:09:57 PM
I was in the Citywest Hotel over Easter, and noticed the couple at the restaurant table next to us had a baby monitor on the table with them.  So I assume they had left a child or children back asleep in the bedroom.

That alone horrified me, just the thought of doing it.


Why its no different than being at home or do you sit and watch your baby 24/7 ?

What? When they are at home, they are in a secure environment.
Wasn't there a case how too long a go where a ladder was put up to the window, someone broke in and someone attempted to run off with the child?
Never heard that, but the key word's in bold. People can attempt what they like, but deterrants help. Leaving your child alone in a hotel bedroom, and using a monitor as a deterrant is dodgey.

No offence Gnevin, but part of good parenting is providing a lifestyle, and environment where a child feels safe. If they can't feel safe in their own home, it will have a drastic affect on their pysche. If you have children, or when you have children don't paint the picture of life to them, that you do here. Sure make sure that they are not wide eyed and niave, but find a middle ground.
These parents where a  maximum 1000 foot from the child. Don't you  ever put the young ones to bed and wash the car, cut the grass all while keeping an ear out?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: balladmaker on May 08, 2009, 05:10:02 PM
Quote
Why its no different than being at home or do you sit and watch your baby 24/7 ?

GNEVIN, are you on the wind up?  A bit of a difference between your child sleeping in their own bedroom, while you watch TV downstairs, and sleeping in a 1000 plus room hotel with hundreds of strangers knocking around, some of whom could access your hotel room with little problem.

Maybe you would do the same, but I wouldn't.  No I don't watch the child 24/7 but I do make sure I know they are in a secure environment 24/7.  An hotel bedroom, isn't exactly secure.

Would you leave a 10 grand watch lying open on a bed in a hotel bedroom?  Or would you lock it in a safe?  A child is priceless, so why would you leave them alone in an unsecure room, with just a monitor.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: SidelineKick on May 08, 2009, 05:13:53 PM
I was in the Citywest Hotel over Easter, and noticed the couple at the restaurant table next to us had a baby monitor on the table with them.  So I assume they had left a child or children back asleep in the bedroom.

That alone horrified me, just the thought of doing it.


Why its no different than being at home or do you sit and watch your baby 24/7 ?

What? When they are at home, they are in a secure environment.
Wasn't there a case how too long a go where a ladder was put up to the window, someone broke in and someone attempted to run off with the child?
Never heard that, but the key word's in bold. People can attempt what they like, but deterrants help. Leaving your child alone in a hotel bedroom, and using a monitor as a deterrant is dodgey.

No offence Gnevin, but part of good parenting is providing a lifestyle, and environment where a child feels safe. If they can't feel safe in their own home, it will have a drastic affect on their pysche. If you have children, or when you have children don't paint the picture of life to them, that you do here. Sure make sure that they are not wide eyed and niave, but find a middle ground.
These parents where a  maximum 1000 foot from the child. Don't you  ever put the young ones to bed and wash the car, cut the grass all while keeping an ear out?

Thats some set of luggs you have on you if you can hear over a mower!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Gnevin on May 08, 2009, 05:14:30 PM
Quote
Why its no different than being at home or do you sit and watch your baby 24/7 ?

GNEVIN, are you on the wind up?  A bit of a difference between your child sleeping in their own bedroom, while you watch TV downstairs, and sleeping in a 1000 plus room hotel with hundreds of strangers knocking around, some of whom could access your hotel room with little problem.

Maybe you would do the same, but I wouldn't.  No I don't watch the child 24/7 but I do make sure I know they are in a secure environment 24/7.  An hotel bedroom, isn't exactly secure.

Would you leave a 10 grand watch lying open on a bed in a hotel bedroom?  Or would you lock it in a safe?  A child is priceless, so why would you leave them alone in an unsecure room, with just a monitor.
Your house is only fractionally more secure .
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Gnevin on May 08, 2009, 05:15:26 PM
I was in the Citywest Hotel over Easter, and noticed the couple at the restaurant table next to us had a baby monitor on the table with them.  So I assume they had left a child or children back asleep in the bedroom.

That alone horrified me, just the thought of doing it.


Why its no different than being at home or do you sit and watch your baby 24/7 ?

What? When they are at home, they are in a secure environment.
Wasn't there a case how too long a go where a ladder was put up to the window, someone broke in and someone attempted to run off with the child?
Never heard that, but the key word's in bold. People can attempt what they like, but deterrants help. Leaving your child alone in a hotel bedroom, and using a monitor as a deterrant is dodgey.

No offence Gnevin, but part of good parenting is providing a lifestyle, and environment where a child feels safe. If they can't feel safe in their own home, it will have a drastic affect on their pysche. If you have children, or when you have children don't paint the picture of life to them, that you do here. Sure make sure that they are not wide eyed and niave, but find a middle ground.
These parents where a  maximum 1000 foot from the child. Don't you  ever put the young ones to bed and wash the car, cut the grass all while keeping an ear out?

Thats some set of luggs you have on you if you can hear over a mower!
Child monitors are cordless now a days or is cutting the grass bad parenting too now a days?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Doogie Browser on May 08, 2009, 05:20:25 PM
There is a subtle difference between cutting the grass and having a couple of pints in a hotel bar or in a restaurant Gnevin, particularly when you are effectively patrolling the entrance to your home when in the garden.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Gnevin on May 08, 2009, 05:22:38 PM
There is a subtle difference between cutting the grass and having a couple of pints in a hotel bar or in a restaurant Gnevin, particularly when you are effectively patrolling the entrance to your home when in the garden.
My house has a back door and a side window.

Who said anything about pints?

If the kids are over 7 or 8 they'll get a lot further than 1000 foot and constant ear shot of the parent on a average day.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Doogie Browser on May 08, 2009, 05:30:26 PM
There is a subtle difference between cutting the grass and having a couple of pints in a hotel bar or in a restaurant Gnevin, particularly when you are effectively patrolling the entrance to your home when in the garden.
My house has a back door and a side window.

Who said anything about pints?

If the kids are over 7 or 8 they'll get a lot further than 1000 foot and constant ear shot of the parent on a average day.
As kids get older they get more and more independent but I would be sure if a child of mine less than 4 years old (not 7 or eight) would not be left unattended away from the safety of my house, be it in a hotel or a restaurant in a foreign country.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: EC Unique on May 08, 2009, 05:36:09 PM
Quote
Why its no different than being at home or do you sit and watch your baby 24/7 ?

GNEVIN, are you on the wind up?  A bit of a difference between your child sleeping in their own bedroom, while you watch TV downstairs, and sleeping in a 1000 plus room hotel with hundreds of strangers knocking around, some of whom could access your hotel room with little problem.

Maybe you would do the same, but I wouldn't.  No I don't watch the child 24/7 but I do make sure I know they are in a secure environment 24/7.  An hotel bedroom, isn't exactly secure.

Would you leave a 10 grand watch lying open on a bed in a hotel bedroom?  Or would you lock it in a safe?  A child is priceless, so why would you leave them alone in an unsecure room, with just a monitor.
Your house is only fractionally more secure .

Nonsense!!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Gnevin on May 08, 2009, 05:52:30 PM
Quote
Why its no different than being at home or do you sit and watch your baby 24/7 ?

GNEVIN, are you on the wind up?  A bit of a difference between your child sleeping in their own bedroom, while you watch TV downstairs, and sleeping in a 1000 plus room hotel with hundreds of strangers knocking around, some of whom could access your hotel room with little problem.

Maybe you would do the same, but I wouldn't.  No I don't watch the child 24/7 but I do make sure I know they are in a secure environment 24/7.  An hotel bedroom, isn't exactly secure.

Would you leave a 10 grand watch lying open on a bed in a hotel bedroom?  Or would you lock it in a safe?  A child is priceless, so why would you leave them alone in an unsecure room, with just a monitor.
Your house is only fractionally more secure .

Nonsense!!

You live in Fort Knox so ?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Norf Tyrone on May 08, 2009, 05:53:49 PM
Sweet Geez Gnevin, are you seriously telling me it's ok to leave a child in a hotel bedroom while you head downstairs from dinner with a child monitor?

Why not get the meal brought to the room if you're starving.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Gnevin on May 08, 2009, 05:55:11 PM
Sweet Geez Gnevin, are you seriously telling me it's ok to leave a child in a hotel bedroom while you head downstairs from dinner with a child monitor?

Why not get the meal brought to the room if you're starving.

It would depend on the child's age but from about 7 + . Yes
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Norf Tyrone on May 08, 2009, 06:03:28 PM
Sweet Geez Gnevin, are you seriously telling me it's ok to leave a child in a hotel bedroom while you head downstairs from dinner with a child monitor?

Why not get the meal brought to the room if you're starving.

It would depend on the child's age but from about 7 + . Yes

Why not take them with you?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Gnevin on May 08, 2009, 06:06:03 PM
Sweet Geez Gnevin, are you seriously telling me it's ok to leave a child in a hotel bedroom while you head downstairs from dinner with a child monitor?

Why not get the meal brought to the room if you're starving.

It would depend on the child's age but from about 7 + . Yes

Why not take them with you?

To quote the mother when I was younger "Can I not have just 5 minutes alone" . Your on holidays , it's nice to have dinner with just the missus some times
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Doogie Browser on May 08, 2009, 06:17:38 PM
Sweet Geez Gnevin, are you seriously telling me it's ok to leave a child in a hotel bedroom while you head downstairs from dinner with a child monitor?

Why not get the meal brought to the room if you're starving.

It would depend on the child's age but from about 7 + . Yes

Why not take them with you?

To quote the mother when I was younger "Can I not have just 5 minutes alone" . Your on holidays , it's nice to have dinner with just the missus some times
Times have changed, for the worse sadly in terms of child abduction.  So our parents generation and now are totally imcomparable IMO.  Children cannot be allowed out of your sight when away from home sadly. 
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ardmhachaabu on May 08, 2009, 06:51:23 PM
Sweet Geez Gnevin, are you seriously telling me it's ok to leave a child in a hotel bedroom while you head downstairs from dinner with a child monitor?

Why not get the meal brought to the room if you're starving.

It would depend on the child's age but from about 7 + . Yes

Why not take them with you?

To quote the mother when I was younger "Can I not have just 5 minutes alone" . Your on holidays , it's nice to have dinner with just the missus some times
Times have changed, for the worse sadly in terms of child abduction.  So our parents generation and now are totally imcomparable IMO.  Children cannot be allowed out of your sight when away from home sadly. 
Doogie, you can't take your eyes off them for a minute.

My ma always said that to us growing up and I say it now with my own...  :D
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Dinny Breen on May 08, 2009, 07:03:03 PM
Gnevin, have you kids?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on May 08, 2009, 07:14:16 PM
Sweet Geez Gnevin, are you seriously telling me it's ok to leave a child in a hotel bedroom while you head downstairs from dinner with a child monitor?

Why not get the meal brought to the room if you're starving.

Of course it's ok - you've a child monitor on the table so any pervert in the place knows you've left your child in the room alone.  I actually think something like that is worse than waht the mccanns done.

Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: the Deel Rover on May 08, 2009, 07:23:41 PM
Gnevin, have you kids?


he can't have if he did he would not be writing  some of the nonsense that he has been writing in some of his previous posts. i have a seven year old girl and if i was in a hotel i would definately not be leaving her in a hotel alone while i'd be having a meal wouldn't call it been over protective just been responsible
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ludermor on May 08, 2009, 07:24:59 PM
If you brought a wallet full of local currency for your holiday ( like you used to do in the old days) would you leave it on the bed with the door unlocked? Would the missus leave her H Samual gear lying on the bed?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: tyrone girl on May 08, 2009, 07:31:41 PM
Has this debate about leaving the children on their own not been done to death. Noone is going to agree, there are plenty of people who think it was irresponsible downright stupid and neglectful and there are others who think its something that happens all over the world. Maybe it does maybe it doesnt. Before this case it would have happened a lot more and if it hadnt been madeline mc cann it could well have been another child in another place another time.
 What matters is it has happened and that little  girl is out there somewhere dead or alive and no matter what the parents should or shouldnt have done it cant be changed. That one action has devastated and destroyed little madelines life, their twins lives their own lives and their immediate families and i for one feel its just terribly sad and feel nothing but pity for the raw grief they are living with every day of their lives and will until they day they die should their daughter be found or not.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: balladmaker on May 22, 2009, 12:08:21 AM
A possible breakthrough?

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Madeleine-McCann-British-Paedophile-Raymond-Hewlett-Named-As-Suspect-In-Case/Article/200905315286548?lpos=World_News_Carousel_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15286548_Madeleine_McCann%3A_British_Paedophile_Raymond_Hewlett_Named_As_Suspect_In_Case (http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Madeleine-McCann-British-Paedophile-Raymond-Hewlett-Named-As-Suspect-In-Case/Article/200905315286548?lpos=World_News_Carousel_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15286548_Madeleine_McCann%3A_British_Paedophile_Raymond_Hewlett_Named_As_Suspect_In_Case)

Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on May 22, 2009, 12:13:19 AM
A pervert lived a hour from where Maddie was abducted?
Is that the only link?  :-\
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: balladmaker on May 22, 2009, 12:22:47 AM
Quote
A pervert lived a hour from where Maddie was abducted?
Is that the only link?

.....as well as the resemblance to the photo fit of the man seen carrying a young girl on the night, plus the known history of Mr. Hewlett and his previous convictions, plus the fact he lived in a motor home an hour from where Maddie was taken....very circumstantial yes, but worth investigating I would say.....

Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: balladmaker on May 25, 2009, 03:31:02 PM
'Paedo Knew Madeleine Holiday Complex Well'

A paedophile who is being investigated over Madeleine McCann's disappearance has reportedly said he was familiar with the holiday complex where she went missing.

Raymond Hewlett is alleged to have been staying around an hour's drive from the McCanns' holiday flat in Praia da Luz, Portugal when she vanished on May 3, 2007. The McCanns' investigation team wants to interview the 64-year-old in the next few days in the hope he can shed some light on her disappearance.

A former soldier who met Hewlett at a campsite in Morocco in May 2007 told the Sunday Mirror he admitted parking a van close to the McCann's complex on several occasions. Peter Verran, 46, said: "He brought Madeleine up straight away. He said his three-year-old daughter looked like her.

"He was worried that because there had been reports that Madeleine may have been spirited away to Morocco, people might think his child was her. Then he suddenly said, 'Madeleine's not in Morocco'.

"I asked him what he meant and he said he knew Praia Da Luz really well. He knew the Ocean Club complex where the McCanns had been staying.

"He said he'd been there many times and had often parked his van close to the apartment.

"He said he knew the layout of the place, the flat and the restaurant where the McCanns and their friends had been eating when Maddie disappeared.

"He had a lot of detail about the layout. He said there was no way that the child could be taken without the parents seeing. He said they were lying."

UK-born Hewlett, a former soldier who previously lived in Blackpool and Telford, is reportedly being treated for throat cancer in hospital in the German city Aachen. He was jailed several times for sexually assaulting young girls and is now wanted for questioning by British detectives in connection with a separate indecent assault case.

The McCanns hope their investigators will be able to speak to Hewlett, despite reports he is seriously ill in intensive care.

Madeleine was nearly four when she went missing from her family's holiday apartment in Praia da Luz on May 3, 2007 while her parents dined with friends nearby. She has not been found despite a massive police investigation and huge publicity worldwide.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Madeleine-McCann-Convicted-Paedophile-Knew-The-Holiday-Complex-Where-Was-Staying---Report/Article/200905415287494?lpos=UK_News_Article_Related_Content_Region_1&lid=ARTICLE_15287494_Madeleine_McCann%3A_Convicted_Paedophile_Knew_The_Holiday_Complex_Where_Was_Staying_-_Report (http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Madeleine-McCann-Convicted-Paedophile-Knew-The-Holiday-Complex-Where-Was-Staying---Report/Article/200905415287494?lpos=UK_News_Article_Related_Content_Region_1&lid=ARTICLE_15287494_Madeleine_McCann%3A_Convicted_Paedophile_Knew_The_Holiday_Complex_Where_Was_Staying_-_Report)
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on May 25, 2009, 03:48:46 PM
Has this debate about leaving the children on their own not been done to death. Noone is going to agree, there are plenty of people who think it was irresponsible downright stupid and neglectful and there are others who think its something that happens all over the world. Maybe it does maybe it doesnt. Before this case it would have happened a lot more and if it hadnt been madeline mc cann it could well have been another child in another place another time.
 What matters is it has happened and that little  girl is out there somewhere dead or alive and no matter what the parents should or shouldnt have done it cant be changed. That one action has devastated and destroyed little madelines life, their twins lives their own lives and their immediate families and i for one feel its just terribly sad and feel nothing but pity for the raw grief they are living with every day of their lives and will until they day they die should their daughter be found or not.

Great post. Agree with you 100%.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: The Real Laoislad on May 25, 2009, 03:55:46 PM
Sweet Geez Gnevin, are you seriously telling me it's ok to leave a child in a hotel bedroom while you head downstairs from dinner with a child monitor?

Why not get the meal brought to the room if you're starving.

It would depend on the child's age but from about 7 + . Yes

Why not take them with you?

To quote the mother when I was younger "Can I not have just 5 minutes alone" . Your on holidays , it's nice to have dinner with just the missus some times

I'd say that had more to do with the fact she had a son like you...
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on May 25, 2009, 04:02:57 PM
A pervert lived a hour from where Maddie was abducted?
Is that the only link?  :-\

I would have to confess that that was my first thought too.

But the more I thought about it, the more it might be important. Stop and think what percentage of the population would be prepared to go into an apartment and snatch a young girl, in the circumstances that Madeleine McCann disappeared. The numbers must be miniscule. Consider now that one such person who could and indeed would have form for this sort of thing was in close relative proximity and it suddenly assumes (in my eyes) greater significance.

Anyway, as balladmaker said, given that there is very little else to go on, it is worth pursuing.   
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ludermor on May 25, 2009, 05:03:19 PM
If you were the parent of a missing child what would be the best ( prob wrong choice of word) outcome?
1) the child to remain missing forever, not knowing what happened
2) A man/gang to confess to kidnapping the child, rape and abuse the kid indefinitely and then kill the child. The child body returned to be buried and a place for you to grieve.

I really don't know what i would want if i was a parent.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: tyrone girl on May 25, 2009, 05:42:31 PM
Thats a tough one. People will all differ and i think its tough to say really unless you find urself in that situation which i trust in god none of us ever do.

Lots of people would want closure and may prefer the childs body returned, and a place to grieve however heartbreaking and distressing it may be.

On the other hand i feel id want to cling on to any kind of hope i could. I think hope would be the only thing that would keep me motivated to even get out of bed in the morning in a situation like that. I watched Kate Mc Cann say that there are days she wishes she could go into a coma and never wake up to try and forget whats happening but she knows they have to continue fighting as best they can.
Hope is  a word people can call corny and a fantasy notion etc but to me its such a big word in this case. Ultimately noone knows whether madeline is dead or alive but while theres hope she still is id prefer to keep living with that than have a police officer come to tell me they found her body.
Its happened before in the world, though the cases are rare and few and far between it has happened that a child has gone missing and been found several years later. I sincerly hope it turns out to be the case here.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: balladmaker on May 26, 2009, 01:10:00 AM
Quote
Its happened before in the world, though the cases are rare and few and far between it has happened that a child has gone missing and been found several years later. I sincerly hope it turns out to be the case here.

What a news story that would be!

My gut feeling is that Madeleine is dead, and has been from a short time after she was abducted, maybe within a couple of hours or less.  I just can't imagine how anyone could still have her given the publicity that surrounds the case.  But it's a strange world, and what would I know.  Sure they can't find Bin Laden, even with all the technology and man power the U.S. have, so what chance finding a little girl who falls much further down the authorities list of priorities.

The thought of her still being alive, held in a cellar somewhere, being abused, that would be a living hell to live with thoughts like that....it's a messed up world we live in!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Norf Tyrone on May 26, 2009, 08:33:03 AM
If you were the parent of a missing child what would be the best ( prob wrong choice of word) outcome?
1) the child to remain missing forever, not knowing what happened
2) A man/gang to confess to kidnapping the child, rape and abuse the kid indefinitely and then kill the child. The child body returned to be buried and a place for you to grieve.

I really don't know what i would want if i was a parent.

It's a choice you would not want to wish on your worst enemy. The thing is re the first one, that nont knowing will only be you constantly imagining number two anyhow.

The ideal scenario... and I know it's far fetched, is that someone has taken her to sell to a couple or whatever who can't have children of their own. It means she's alive, and being treated well. As TG says.... Hope.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: deiseach on May 26, 2009, 09:36:07 AM
If you were the parent of a missing child what would be the best ( prob wrong choice of word) outcome?
1) the child to remain missing forever, not knowing what happened
2) A man/gang to confess to kidnapping the child, rape and abuse the kid indefinitely and then kill the child. The child body returned to be buried and a place for you to grieve.

I really don't know what i would want if i was a parent.

You'd want to see the body, whatever the price. Scenario 1) is a living death
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Capt Pat on May 27, 2009, 01:30:59 AM
Has anyone ever noticed the similarities between the McCann cas and the O'Toole case. That is the Timmy O'Toole case where Bart Simpson throws a walkie talkie down a well and pretends that he is Timmy O'Toole and has fallen down the well to get the attention of people. The media get involved and celebrities come along to help dig him out. ;)
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ardmhachaabu on May 27, 2009, 09:37:57 AM
Has anyone ever noticed the similarities between the McCann cas and the O'Toole case. That is the Timmy O'Toole case where Bart Simpson throws a walkie talkie down a well and pretends that he is Timmy O'Toole and has fallen down the well to get the attention of people. The media get involved and celebrities come along to help dig him out. ;)
Most stupid comment I have ever read on here.  Well done!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: seanf on July 26, 2009, 10:38:55 AM
The search for Maddie seems to have gone quiet!

I thought after the reconstruction on TV this story would have been back in the news over the summer
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Minder on May 13, 2011, 05:47:52 PM
They haven't gone away you know. Cameron has bullied the Met into carrying out a review, that could cost millions and the parents have a book out and are in the midst of a publicity blitzkrieg. In fairness Cameron was probably bullied by Rupert Murdoch as The Sun have teamed up with the McCanns.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: All of a Sludden on May 13, 2011, 06:20:55 PM
Kate McCann has a lovely tan at the moment. I guess it's because she's been lying in The Sun all week.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: balladmaker on May 13, 2011, 07:25:45 PM
Are they not entitled to the assistance of the police force of their own country to aid the investigation into their missing daughter?  Who or what type of person would deny them this ...
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: gallsman on May 13, 2011, 07:44:17 PM
Are they not entitled to the assistance of the police force of their own country to aid the investigation into their missing daughter?  Who or what type of person would deny them this ...

I presume it has to do with the fact they are allowed help as much as the Portuguese let them
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ross matt on May 13, 2011, 07:44:55 PM
Are they not entitled to the assistance of the police force of their own country to aid the investigation into their missing daughter?  Who or what type of person would deny them this ...

Well said!
Entitled to do anything to get their child back or at least find out what happened to her. Cant believe the heartlessness of some of the comments above.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ross matt on May 13, 2011, 07:47:43 PM
Has this debate about leaving the children on their own not been done to death. Noone is going to agree, there are plenty of people who think it was irresponsible downright stupid and neglectful and there are others who think its something that happens all over the world. Maybe it does maybe it doesnt. Before this case it would have happened a lot more and if it hadnt been madeline mc cann it could well have been another child in another place another time.
 What matters is it has happened and that little  girl is out there somewhere dead or alive and no matter what the parents should or shouldnt have done it cant be changed. That one action has devastated and destroyed little madelines life, their twins lives their own lives and their immediate families and i for one feel its just terribly sad and feel nothing but pity for the raw grief they are living with every day of their lives and will until they day they die should their daughter be found or not.

Great post. Agree with you 100%.

Thats a brilliant post Rufus. Sums up how I feel and how I imagine most people who love their kids feel.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on May 13, 2011, 07:52:01 PM
I wonder how many children has gone missing since Maddie McCann and not a word about them.
Can someone explain to me why should the McCanns receive special treatment? Will the MET be opening any other cases?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 13, 2011, 08:02:14 PM
I wonder how many children has gone missing since Maddie McCann and not a word about them.
Can someone explain to me why should the McCanns receive special treatment? Will the MET be opening any other cases?
Agree with this man. They seem to be getting preferential treatment.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ross matt on May 13, 2011, 08:02:51 PM
I wonder how many children has gone missing since Maddie McCann and not a word about them.
Can someone explain to me why should the McCanns receive special treatment? Will the MET be opening any other cases?

That's a question for the MET. Hardly the McCann's fault about other kids not getting the same treatment.
In all fairness if you were in Maddie's parent's shoes wouldnt you use every available infleunce possible to maximise publicity and keep the search going? I really dont know how anyone can begrudge them this new investigation. Best of luck to them.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: balladmaker on May 13, 2011, 08:04:13 PM
Quote
I wonder how many children has gone missing since Maddie McCann and not a word about them.
Can someone explain to me why should the McCanns receive special treatment? Will the MET be opening any other cases?

How many have gone missing as a result of suspected abduction?

The fact that they are getting assistance from the police force of their country is their right.  I would leave no stone unturned if it was my daughter, so fair play to them. 
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: mannix on May 13, 2011, 08:05:24 PM
A lot of kids go missing. Go to YouTube and type in   To catch a predator,  it makes you realize nobody can truly be trusted even if they appear ok, cops,priests,teachers,business men etc, some with kids of their own. I hope  McCann died a quick death and is not being sold to the next bidder in some dungeon in Portugal or the likes.
I have a 3 year old and could not imagine what I would do if someone touched her, I would likely end up dead or in jail. 
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on May 13, 2011, 08:13:13 PM
Quote
I wonder how many children has gone missing since Maddie McCann and not a word about them.
Can someone explain to me why should the McCanns receive special treatment? Will the MET be opening any other cases?

How many have gone missing as a result of suspected abduction?


The fact that they are getting assistance from the police force of their country is their right.  I would leave no stone unturned if it was my daughter, so fair play to them.
I don't blame them for asking, I blame Cameron and the Met. Why do they deserve special treatment?
As for the bit in bold, are you serious?
I wonder how many children has gone missing since Maddie McCann and not a word about them.
Can someone explain to me why should the McCanns receive special treatment? Will the MET be opening any other cases?

That's a question for the MET. Hardly the McCann's fault about other kids not getting the same treatment.
In all fairness if you were in Maddie's parent's shoes wouldnt you use every available infleunce possible to maximise publicity and keep the search going? I really dont know how anyone can begrudge them this new investigation. Best of luck to them.
Put yourself in the shoes of a parent who has a child  missing and who never received any of the attention the mccanns get (and who never left their child at home while they go out boozing!).  How would you feel?

Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: seafoid on May 13, 2011, 08:14:09 PM
I saw a poster for Madeleine in Spain last year on the way to Morocco.
What a nightmare for the family. They'll never get over it.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Minder on May 13, 2011, 08:15:05 PM
I wonder how many children has gone missing since Maddie McCann and not a word about them.
Can someone explain to me why should the McCanns receive special treatment? Will the MET be opening any other cases?

That's a question for the MET. Hardly the McCann's fault about other kids not getting the same treatment.
In all fairness if you were in Maddie's parent's shoes wouldnt you use every available infleunce
possible to maximise publicity and keep the search going? I really dont know how anyone can begrudge them this new investigation. Best of luck to them.

The MET were bullied into doing this by The Sun and Cameron. Can you imagine the Sun throwing their weight behind someone from a sink estate Rotherham ? The arguments are well worn but the treatment the McCanns received was disproportionate because of their colour and social standing.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: laoislad on May 13, 2011, 08:20:20 PM
I wonder how many children has gone missing since Maddie McCann and not a word about them.
Can someone explain to me why should the McCanns receive special treatment? Will the MET be opening any other cases?
Agree with this man. They seem to be getting preferential treatment.

I agree with both of these men.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: gallsman on May 13, 2011, 08:31:50 PM
Of course the McCann's should do everything in their power to get their daughter back. If they ever do, she and her siblings should promptly be taken off then and placed in the care of a loving family capable of looking after them.

As for the McCann's getting preferential treatment (both police and the way the media treat them), this is undoubtedly the case. The disappearance of Shannon Matthews is an obvious example. Look at the murder of Joanna Yeates before Christmas. The sickening tabloid reporting about her "creepy" and "weird" neighbour had him guilty in the eyes of the retarded mob, some of who showed their faces on this board. I remember one twat in particular advocating that the police should have tried to do everything possible to convict the boyfriend because, well, you know, he was her boyfriend. This is the sort of shit that fuels the tabloids in these type of cases.

Affluent, attractive and white - victims of a tragedy.

Poor, "ugly" and often non-white - dreadful parents
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: SHEEDY on May 13, 2011, 08:34:42 PM
anyone out there with half a heart can only wish them the best in their continued quest to find what happened to maddie.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Minder on May 13, 2011, 08:35:44 PM
Of course the McCann's should do everything in their power to get their daughter back. If they ever do, she and her siblings should promptly be taken off then and placed in the care of a loving family capable of looking after them.

As for the McCann's getting preferential treatment (both police and the way the media treat them), this is undoubtedly the case. The disappearance of Shannon Matthews is an obvious example. Look at the murder of Joanna Yeates before Christmas. The sickening tabloid reporting about her "creepy" and "weird" neighbour had him guilty in the eyes of the retarded mob, some of who showed their faces on this board. I remember one t**t in particular advocating that the police should have tried to
do everything possible to convict the boyfriend because, well, you know, he was her boyfriend. This is the sort of shit that fuels the tabloids in these type of cases.

Affluent, attractive and white - victims of a tragedy.

Poor, "ugly" and often non-white - dreadful parents

Gallsman you forgot to preface Joanne Yeates with sometimes "landscape architect" and just sometimes "architect".
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ross matt on May 13, 2011, 08:51:43 PM
Quote
I wonder how many children has gone missing since Maddie McCann and not a word about them.
Can someone explain to me why should the McCanns receive special treatment? Will the MET be opening any other cases?

How many have gone missing as a result of suspected abduction?


The fact that they are getting assistance from the police force of their country is their right.  I would leave no stone unturned if it was my daughter, so fair play to them.
I don't blame them for asking, I blame Cameron and the Met. Why do they deserve special treatment?
As for the bit in bold, are you serious?
I wonder how many children has gone missing since Maddie McCann and not a word about them.
Can someone explain to me why should the McCanns receive special treatment? Will the MET be opening any other cases?

That's a question for the MET. Hardly the McCann's fault about other kids not getting the same treatment.
In all fairness if you were in Maddie's parent's shoes wouldnt you use every available infleunce possible to maximise publicity and keep the search going? I really dont know how anyone can begrudge them this new investigation. Best of luck to them.
Put yourself in the shoes of a parent who has a child  missing and who never received any of the attention the mccanns get (and who never left their child at home while they go out boozing!).  How would you feel?

Sweet Jesus Christ in heaven! Are you for real? So they deserve this do they? Is that your point? Anyone would with half a heart would feel for ANY  parent who's child was taken. But most (like another poster said) would leave no stone unturned looking for their own child and not worrying about anyone else's. You seem more preoccupied with whats PC. Dont get you or the likes of you that holds this type of opinion or begrduges the McCann's any advantage they get.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Blowitupref on May 13, 2011, 08:59:36 PM
Yes it was foolish the parents left Maddie unwatched as they went out however those are some coldhearted comments above.

The McCann's had/have a huge internet campaign to thank for the ongoing search & i hope they can find closure.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on May 13, 2011, 09:07:06 PM
Quote
I wonder how many children has gone missing since Maddie McCann and not a word about them.
Can someone explain to me why should the McCanns receive special treatment? Will the MET be opening any other cases?

How many have gone missing as a result of suspected abduction?


The fact that they are getting assistance from the police force of their country is their right.  I would leave no stone unturned if it was my daughter, so fair play to them.
I don't blame them for asking, I blame Cameron and the Met. Why do they deserve special treatment?
As for the bit in bold, are you serious?
I wonder how many children has gone missing since Maddie McCann and not a word about them.
Can someone explain to me why should the McCanns receive special treatment? Will the MET be opening any other cases?

That's a question for the MET. Hardly the McCann's fault about other kids not getting the same treatment.
In all fairness if you were in Maddie's parent's shoes wouldnt you use every available infleunce possible to maximise publicity and keep the search going? I really dont know how anyone can begrudge them this new investigation. Best of luck to them.
Put yourself in the shoes of a parent who has a child  missing and who never received any of the attention the mccanns get (and who never left their child at home while they go out boozing!).  How would you feel?

Sweet Jesus Christ in heaven! Are you for real? So they deserve this do they? Is that your point? Anyone would with half a heart would feel for ANY  parent who's child was taken. But most (like another poster said) would leave no stone unturned looking for their own child and not worrying about anyone else's. You seem more preoccupied with whats PC. Dont get you or the likes of you that holds this type of opinion or begrduges the McCann's any advantage they get.
Where did I say they deserve it? Though I have to say I don't feel sympathy towards them, I feel anger at their selfishness of leaving their babies in an apartment alone. 
Where did I stay they should stop looking? Where did I say I blamed them for the special treatment they get?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: gallsman on May 13, 2011, 09:07:34 PM
Quote
I wonder how many children has gone missing since Maddie McCann and not a word about them.
Can someone explain to me why should the McCanns receive special treatment? Will the MET be opening any other cases?

How many have gone missing as a result of suspected abduction?


The fact that they are getting assistance from the police force of their country is their right.  I would leave no stone unturned if it was my daughter, so fair play to them.
I don't blame them for asking, I blame Cameron and the Met. Why do they deserve special treatment?
As for the bit in bold, are you serious?
I wonder how many children has gone missing since Maddie McCann and not a word about them.
Can someone explain to me why should the McCanns receive special treatment? Will the MET be opening any other cases?

That's a question for the MET. Hardly the McCann's fault about other kids not getting the same treatment.
In all fairness if you were in Maddie's parent's shoes wouldnt you use every available infleunce possible to maximise publicity and keep the search going? I really dont know how anyone can begrudge them this new investigation. Best of luck to them.
Put yourself in the shoes of a parent who has a child  missing and who never received any of the attention the mccanns get (and who never left their child at home while they go out boozing!).  How would you feel?

Sweet Jesus Christ in heaven! Are you for real? So they deserve this do they? Is that your point? Anyone would with half a heart would feel for ANY  parent who's child was taken. But most (like another poster said) would leave no stone unturned looking for their own child and not worrying about anyone else's. You seem more preoccupied with whats PC. Dont get you or the likes of you that holds this type of opinion or begrduges the McCann's any advantage they get.

What a ridiculous post. First of all you imply pints has a particular opinion on something and then ask if that is his point. Please for the love of god, without any histrionics, point out where anybody said the McCanns deserved this since this thread was reactivated (Some idiot may have done beforehand. Unlikely but I haven't checked). Go on, do it now. How f**king dare you put words in anyone's mouth to that effect.

Nobody is begrudging the McCanns anything, "they" (myself included) are criticising the cops, the media and the government for appearing to only give a flying f**k about a missing child when it's a particularly high profile case, with the high profile often arising from the family being firmly white middle-class.

Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ross matt on May 13, 2011, 09:28:00 PM
Quote
I wonder how many children has gone missing since Maddie McCann and not a word about them.
Can someone explain to me why should the McCanns receive special treatment? Will the MET be opening any other cases?

How many have gone missing as a result of suspected abduction?


The fact that they are getting assistance from the police force of their country is their right.  I would leave no stone unturned if it was my daughter, so fair play to them.
I don't blame them for asking, I blame Cameron and the Met. Why do they deserve special treatment?
As for the bit in bold, are you serious?
I wonder how many children has gone missing since Maddie McCann and not a word about them.
Can someone explain to me why should the McCanns receive special treatment? Will the MET be opening any other cases?

That's a question for the MET. Hardly the McCann's fault about other kids not getting the same treatment.
In all fairness if you were in Maddie's parent's shoes wouldnt you use every available infleunce possible to maximise publicity and keep the search going? I really dont know how anyone can begrudge them this new investigation. Best of luck to them.
Put yourself in the shoes of a parent who has a child  missing and who never received any of the attention the mccanns get (and who never left their child at home while they go out boozing!).  How would you feel?

Sweet Jesus Christ in heaven! Are you for real? So they deserve this do they? Is that your point? Anyone would with half a heart would feel for ANY  parent who's child was taken. But most (like another poster said) would leave no stone unturned looking for their own child and not worrying about anyone else's. You seem more preoccupied with whats PC. Dont get you or the likes of you that holds this type of opinion or begrduges the McCann's any advantage they get.

What a ridiculous post. First of all you imply pints has a particular opinion on something and then ask if that is his point. Please for the love of god, without any histrionics, point out where anybody said the McCanns deserved this since this thread was reactivated (Some idiot may have done beforehand. Unlikely but I haven't checked). Go on, do it now. How f**king dare you put words in anyone's mouth to that effect.

Nobody is begrudging the McCanns anything, "they" (myself included) are criticising the cops, the media and the government for appearing to only give a flying f**k about a missing child when it's a particularly high profile case, with the high profile often arising from the family being firmly white middle-class.

Bit rich from you considering you posted that the rest of their kids should be taken off them. Not to mention your media/race conspiracy theories. Your comments and those of Pints definitely imply to me you begrudge them the media attention which has helped reopen the case. I could care less whether that offends you or him.

At best ye'er comments (as another posted just said) are cold hearted. They made a mistake in leaving her unattended. But they have already paid a massive price for this. As the Father of 3 young girls myself my heart has always gone out to them (not to mention the mental images going through one's head imagining what Madelaine went through).  I really dont give a f**k how much help they get from anywhere. More power to them.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ross matt on May 13, 2011, 09:31:40 PM
Quote
I wonder how many children has gone missing since Maddie McCann and not a word about them.
Can someone explain to me why should the McCanns receive special treatment? Will the MET be opening any other cases?

How many have gone missing as a result of suspected abduction?


The fact that they are getting assistance from the police force of their country is their right.  I would leave no stone unturned if it was my daughter, so fair play to them.
I don't blame them for asking, I blame Cameron and the Met. Why do they deserve special treatment?
As for the bit in bold, are you serious?
I wonder how many children has gone missing since Maddie McCann and not a word about them.
Can someone explain to me why should the McCanns receive special treatment? Will the MET be opening any other cases?

That's a question for the MET. Hardly the McCann's fault about other kids not getting the same treatment.
In all fairness if you were in Maddie's parent's shoes wouldnt you use every available infleunce possible to maximise publicity and keep the search going? I really dont know how anyone can begrudge them this new investigation. Best of luck to them.
Put yourself in the shoes of a parent who has a child  missing and who never received any of the attention the mccanns get (and who never left their child at home while they go out boozing!).  How would you feel?

Sweet Jesus Christ in heaven! Are you for real? So they deserve this do they? Is that your point? Anyone would with half a heart would feel for ANY  parent who's child was taken. But most (like another poster said) would leave no stone unturned looking for their own child and not worrying about anyone else's. You seem more preoccupied with whats PC. Dont get you or the likes of you that holds this type of opinion or begrduges the McCann's any advantage they get.
Where did I say they deserve it? Though I have to say I don't feel sympathy towards them, I feel anger at their selfishness of leaving their babies in an apartment alone. 
Where did I stay they should stop looking? Where did I say I blamed them for the special treatment they get?

My God. What a hard man you are. Hope life always stays fine for ya.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on May 13, 2011, 09:34:56 PM
Quote
it rich from you considering you posted that the rest of their kids should be taken off them.
If it was some single mother from a council estate who left the children home in bed and popped down to the pub you'd be screaming for social services because she was negligent.
If it's two middle class doctors who leave their children in a holiday apartment in Portugal and go to the pub it's a "mistake" or "foolish". 

Quote
At best ye'er comments (as another posted just said) are cold hearted. They made a mistake in leaving her unattended. But they have already paid a massive price for this. As the Father of 3 young girls myself my heart has always gone out to them (not to mention the mental images going through one's head imagining what Madelaine went through).  I really dont give a f**k how much help they get from anywhere. More power to them.
What about the missing children and their families who get no media attention? Does your heart go out to them? How do you feel about the media ignoring them?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: gallsman on May 13, 2011, 09:38:55 PM
Bit rich from you considering you posted that the rest of their kids should be taken off them. Not to mention your media/race conspiracy theories. Your comments and those of Pints definitely imply to me you begrudge them the media attention which has helped reopen the case. I could care less whether that offends you or him.

At best ye'er comments (as another posted just said) are cold hearted. They made a mistake in leaving her unattended. But they have already paid a massive price for this. As the Father of 3 young girls myself my heart has always gone out to them (not to mention the mental images going through one's head imagining what Madelaine went through).  I really dont give a f**k how much help they get from anywhere. More power to them.

You really are a complete f**king idiot. "media/race conspiracy theories", eh? Shannon Matthews' family were treated the same way the McCanns were prior to the facts of that case coming to light, were they?

My comments do not begrudge the McCanns that they have managed to get a case reopened, not one little bit.. I begrudge the police and the government for not doing it for everybody else.

Yes, I did post that their other children should be taken from them and placed in care. Anyone who considers it acceptable to leave a three year old alone while they f**k off out to dinner is, in my opinion, unfit to be a parent. That is not a "mistake" - it is complete and utter incompetence.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ross matt on May 13, 2011, 09:44:06 PM
Quote
it rich from you considering you posted that the rest of their kids should be taken off them.
If it was some single mother from a council estate who left the children home in bed and popped down to the pub you'd be screaming for social services because she was negligent.

Would I? How do you know that? Gallmans would call that "putting words in someones mouth".

If it's two middle class doctors who leave their children in a holiday apartment in Portugal and go to the pub it's a "mistake" or "foolish". 

Quote
At best ye'er comments (as another posted just said) are cold hearted. They made a mistake in leaving her unattended. But they have already paid a massive price for this. As the Father of 3 young girls myself my heart has always gone out to them (not to mention the mental images going through one's head imagining what Madelaine went through).  I really dont give a f**k how much help they get from anywhere. More power to them.
What about the missing children and their families who get no media attention? Does your heart go out to them? How do you feel about the media ignoring them?

Do you really have to ask me that question? Do I Have to answer it? Obviously I do for you. Of course my heart goes out to them or to anyone who loses a child. I already posted that above somewhere. Would 99% of the population not have sympathy for anyone regardless of their class or creed?
Have some compassion for the love of God and done be so judgemental of people who've made a terrible mistake and are paying every second of every day for it.


Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ross matt on May 13, 2011, 09:50:12 PM
Bit rich from you considering you posted that the rest of their kids should be taken off them. Not to mention your media/race conspiracy theories. Your comments and those of Pints definitely imply to me you begrudge them the media attention which has helped reopen the case. I could care less whether that offends you or him.

At best ye'er comments (as another posted just said) are cold hearted. They made a mistake in leaving her unattended. But they have already paid a massive price for this. As the Father of 3 young girls myself my heart has always gone out to them (not to mention the mental images going through one's head imagining what Madelaine went through).  I really dont give a f**k how much help they get from anywhere. More power to them.

You really are a complete f**king idiot. "media/race conspiracy theories", eh? Shannon Matthews' family were treated the same way the McCanns were prior to the facts of that case coming to light, were they?

My comments do not begrudge the McCanns that they have managed to get a case reopened, not one little bit.. I begrudge the police and the government for not doing it for everybody else.

Yes, I did post that their other children should be taken from them and placed in care. Anyone who considers it acceptable to leave a three year old alone while they f**k off out to dinner is, in my opinion, unfit to be a parent. That is not a "mistake" - it is complete and utter incompetence.

Oh My god such an intelligent reply.  The names I could call you. Honestly my friend I cant even imagine what makes the like of you tick and I dont really want to find out.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on May 13, 2011, 09:50:44 PM
Quote
it rich from you considering you posted that the rest of their kids should be taken off them.
If it was some single mother from a council estate who left the children home in bed and popped down to the pub you'd be screaming for social services because she was negligent.

Would I? How do you know that? Gallmans would call that "putting words in someones mouth".

If it's two middle class doctors who leave their children in a holiday apartment in Portugal and go to the pub it's a "mistake" or "foolish". 

Quote
At best ye'er comments (as another posted just said) are cold hearted. They made a mistake in leaving her unattended. But they have already paid a massive price for this. As the Father of 3 young girls myself my heart has always gone out to them (not to mention the mental images going through one's head imagining what Madelaine went through).  I really dont give a f**k how much help they get from anywhere. More power to them.
What about the missing children and their families who get no media attention? Does your heart go out to them? How do you feel about the media ignoring them?

Do you really have to ask me that question? Do I Have to answer it? Obviously I do for you. Of course my heart goes out to them or to anyone who loses a child. I already posted that above somewhere. Would 99% of the population not have sympathy for anyone regardless of their class or creed?
Have some compassion for the love of God and done be so judgemental of people who've made a terrible mistake and are paying every second of every day for it.

My lack of sympathy for the McCanns has nothing to do with their class. 
Stop saying they made a mistake, they were negligent, would you leave your children like they did?
If you did and your daughter asked you the following morning why you didnt come when she cried would you leave them again? 
And you never answered my question, how do you feel about the media ignoring so many more missing children?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: SHEEDY on May 13, 2011, 09:51:45 PM
Bit rich from you considering you posted that the rest of their kids should be taken off them. Not to mention your media/race conspiracy theories. Your comments and those of Pints definitely imply to me you begrudge them the media attention which has helped reopen the case. I could care less whether that offends you or him.

At best ye'er comments (as another posted just said) are cold hearted. They made a mistake in leaving her unattended. But they have already paid a massive price for this. As the Father of 3 young girls myself my heart has always gone out to them (not to mention the mental images going through one's head imagining what Madelaine went through).  I really dont give a f**k how much help they get from anywhere. More power to them.

You really are a complete f**king idiot. "media/race conspiracy theories", eh? Shannon Matthews' family were treated the same way the McCanns were prior to the facts of that case coming to light, were they?

My comments do not begrudge the McCanns that they have managed to get a case reopened, not one little bit.. I begrudge the police and the government for not doing it for everybody else.

Yes, I did post that their other children should be taken from them and placed in care. Anyone who considers it acceptable to leave a three year old alone while they f**k off out to dinner is, in my opinion, unfit to be a parent. That is not a "mistake" - it is complete and utter incompetence.
have you even got children arsehole? you have never left them unattened, even for a second in the garden, playing outside etc. 99.9% of parents should have their children taken off them in that is your view. my children have been outside playing today while i was in the house. am i unfit to be a parent?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: gallsman on May 13, 2011, 09:58:19 PM
Bit rich from you considering you posted that the rest of their kids should be taken off them. Not to mention your media/race conspiracy theories. Your comments and those of Pints definitely imply to me you begrudge them the media attention which has helped reopen the case. I could care less whether that offends you or him.

At best ye'er comments (as another posted just said) are cold hearted. They made a mistake in leaving her unattended. But they have already paid a massive price for this. As the Father of 3 young girls myself my heart has always gone out to them (not to mention the mental images going through one's head imagining what Madelaine went through).  I really dont give a f**k how much help they get from anywhere. More power to them.

You really are a complete f**king idiot. "media/race conspiracy theories", eh? Shannon Matthews' family were treated the same way the McCanns were prior to the facts of that case coming to light, were they?

My comments do not begrudge the McCanns that they have managed to get a case reopened, not one little bit.. I begrudge the police and the government for not doing it for everybody else.

Yes, I did post that their other children should be taken from them and placed in care. Anyone who considers it acceptable to leave a three year old alone while they f**k off out to dinner is, in my opinion, unfit to be a parent. That is not a "mistake" - it is complete and utter incompetence.
have you even got children arsehole? you have never left them unattened, even for a second in the garden, playing outside etc. 99.9% of parents should have their children taken off them in that is your view. my children have been outside playing today while i was in the house. am i unfit to be a parent?

No I don't have kids but I do babysit a lot. Have a left kids unattended playing in a garden? Not at three years of age, no. Certainly not while I pissed off for a while to enjoy myself.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: gallsman on May 13, 2011, 10:00:41 PM
Bit rich from you considering you posted that the rest of their kids should be taken off them. Not to mention your media/race conspiracy theories. Your comments and those of Pints definitely imply to me you begrudge them the media attention which has helped reopen the case. I could care less whether that offends you or him.

At best ye'er comments (as another posted just said) are cold hearted. They made a mistake in leaving her unattended. But they have already paid a massive price for this. As the Father of 3 young girls myself my heart has always gone out to them (not to mention the mental images going through one's head imagining what Madelaine went through).  I really dont give a f**k how much help they get from anywhere. More power to them.

You really are a complete f**king idiot. "media/race conspiracy theories", eh? Shannon Matthews' family were treated the same way the McCanns were prior to the facts of that case coming to light, were they?

My comments do not begrudge the McCanns that they have managed to get a case reopened, not one little bit.. I begrudge the police and the government for not doing it for everybody else.

Yes, I did post that their other children should be taken from them and placed in care. Anyone who considers it acceptable to leave a three year old alone while they f**k off out to dinner is, in my opinion, unfit to be a parent. That is not a "mistake" - it is complete and utter incompetence.

Oh My god such an intelligent reply.  The names I could call you. Honestly my friend I cant even imagine what makes the like of you tick and I dont really want to find out.

Maybe what makes me tick is having you tell me I begrudge a parent doing everything in their power to find their child.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ross matt on May 13, 2011, 10:01:00 PM
Bit rich from you considering you posted that the rest of their kids should be taken off them. Not to mention your media/race conspiracy theories. Your comments and those of Pints definitely imply to me you begrudge them the media attention which has helped reopen the case. I could care less whether that offends you or him.

At best ye'er comments (as another posted just said) are cold hearted. They made a mistake in leaving her unattended. But they have already paid a massive price for this. As the Father of 3 young girls myself my heart has always gone out to them (not to mention the mental images going through one's head imagining what Madelaine went through).  I really dont give a f**k how much help they get from anywhere. More power to them.

You really are a complete f**king idiot. "media/race conspiracy theories", eh? Shannon Matthews' family were treated the same way the McCanns were prior to the facts of that case coming to light, were they?

My comments do not begrudge the McCanns that they have managed to get a case reopened, not one little bit.. I begrudge the police and the government for not doing it for everybody else.

Yes, I did post that their other children should be taken from them and placed in care. Anyone who considers it acceptable to leave a three year old alone while they f**k off out to dinner is, in my opinion, unfit to be a parent. That is not a "mistake" - it is complete and utter incompetence.
have you even got children arsehole? you have never left them unattened, even for a second in the garden, playing outside etc. 99.9% of parents should have their children taken off them in that is your view. my children have been outside playing today while i was in the house. am i unfit to be a parent?

I refrained from asking either of them that question Sheedy for the simple reason I wouldnt even have thought a person would have had to have children to have sympathy for the McCann parents and all they've gone though.  I've never encountered such santimonious shite as has been posted by Gallsman in particular.

Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: laoislad on May 13, 2011, 10:01:39 PM
Bit rich from you considering you posted that the rest of their kids should be taken off them. Not to mention your media/race conspiracy theories. Your comments and those of Pints definitely imply to me you begrudge them the media attention which has helped reopen the case. I could care less whether that offends you or him.

At best ye'er comments (as another posted just said) are cold hearted. They made a mistake in leaving her unattended. But they have already paid a massive price for this. As the Father of 3 young girls myself my heart has always gone out to them (not to mention the mental images going through one's head imagining what Madelaine went through).  I really dont give a f**k how much help they get from anywhere. More power to them.

You really are a complete f**king idiot. "media/race conspiracy theories", eh? Shannon Matthews' family were treated the same way the McCanns were prior to the facts of that case coming to light, were they?

My comments do not begrudge the McCanns that they have managed to get a case reopened, not one little bit.. I begrudge the police and the government for not doing it for everybody else.

Yes, I did post that their other children should be taken from them and placed in care. Anyone who considers it acceptable to leave a three year old alone while they f**k off out to dinner is, in my opinion, unfit to be a parent. That is not a "mistake" - it is complete and utter incompetence.
have you even got children arsehole? you have never left them unattened, even for a second in the garden, playing outside etc. 99.9% of parents should have their children taken off them in that is your view. my children have been outside playing today while i was in the house. am i unfit to be a parent?

Leaving kids to play in your own back garden is not exactly the same as leaving a 3 year old alone in a foreign country while you went off to the pub.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: gallsman on May 13, 2011, 10:06:49 PM
Bit rich from you considering you posted that the rest of their kids should be taken off them. Not to mention your media/race conspiracy theories. Your comments and those of Pints definitely imply to me you begrudge them the media attention which has helped reopen the case. I could care less whether that offends you or him.

At best ye'er comments (as another posted just said) are cold hearted. They made a mistake in leaving her unattended. But they have already paid a massive price for this. As the Father of 3 young girls myself my heart has always gone out to them (not to mention the mental images going through one's head imagining what Madelaine went through).  I really dont give a f**k how much help they get from anywhere. More power to them.

You really are a complete f**king idiot. "media/race conspiracy theories", eh? Shannon Matthews' family were treated the same way the McCanns were prior to the facts of that case coming to light, were they?

My comments do not begrudge the McCanns that they have managed to get a case reopened, not one little bit.. I begrudge the police and the government for not doing it for everybody else.

Yes, I did post that their other children should be taken from them and placed in care. Anyone who considers it acceptable to leave a three year old alone while they f**k off out to dinner is, in my opinion, unfit to be a parent. That is not a "mistake" - it is complete and utter incompetence.
have you even got children arsehole? you have never left them unattened, even for a second in the garden, playing outside etc. 99.9% of parents should have their children taken off them in that is your view. my children have been outside playing today while i was in the house. am i unfit to be a parent?

I refrained from asking either of them that question Sheedy for the simple reason I wouldnt even have thought a person would have had to have children to have sympathy for the McCann parents and all they've gone though.  I've never encountered such santimonious shite as has been posted by Gallsman in particular.

Well first off you are correct - the fact that I do not have children has no impact on my ability to sympathise with the McCanns, so that's that one out the window. I can't imagine what it would be like if it was one of my nieces of nephews, so I don't dare to imagine what it would be like for a parent.

Secondly, I never once stated I have no sympathy for the McCanns - I have every sympathy in the world for them. That does not prevent me from condemning them for the act of unforgivable gross negligence they committed in the first place.

Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on May 13, 2011, 10:09:58 PM
Bit rich from you considering you posted that the rest of their kids should be taken off them. Not to mention your media/race conspiracy theories. Your comments and those of Pints definitely imply to me you begrudge them the media attention which has helped reopen the case. I could care less whether that offends you or him.

At best ye'er comments (as another posted just said) are cold hearted. They made a mistake in leaving her unattended. But they have already paid a massive price for this. As the Father of 3 young girls myself my heart has always gone out to them (not to mention the mental images going through one's head imagining what Madelaine went through).  I really dont give a f**k how much help they get from anywhere. More power to them.

You really are a complete f**king idiot. "media/race conspiracy theories", eh? Shannon Matthews' family were treated the same way the McCanns were prior to the facts of that case coming to light, were they?

My comments do not begrudge the McCanns that they have managed to get a case reopened, not one little bit.. I begrudge the police and the government for not doing it for everybody else.

Yes, I did post that their other children should be taken from them and placed in care. Anyone who considers it acceptable to leave a three year old alone while they f**k off out to dinner is, in my opinion, unfit to be a parent. That is not a "mistake" - it is complete and utter incompetence.
have you even got children arsehole? you have never left them unattened, even for a second in the garden, playing outside etc. 99.9% of parents should have their children taken off them in that is your view. my children have been outside playing today while i was in the house. am i unfit to be a parent?
and you can't see the difference from children playing in the garden while you're in the house and leaving them in an apartment and going out boozing? Have you ever left your children at home to go out boozing?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ross matt on May 13, 2011, 10:10:07 PM
Quote
it rich from you considering you posted that the rest of their kids should be taken off them.
If it was some single mother from a council estate who left the children home in bed and popped down to the pub you'd be screaming for social services because she was negligent.

Would I? How do you know that? Gallmans would call that "putting words in someones mouth".

If it's two middle class doctors who leave their children in a holiday apartment in Portugal and go to the pub it's a "mistake" or "foolish". 

Quote
At best ye'er comments (as another posted just said) are cold hearted. They made a mistake in leaving her unattended. But they have already paid a massive price for this. As the Father of 3 young girls myself my heart has always gone out to them (not to mention the mental images going through one's head imagining what Madelaine went through).  I really dont give a f**k how much help they get from anywhere. More power to them.
What about the missing children and their families who get no media attention? Does your heart go out to them? How do you feel about the media ignoring them?

Do you really have to ask me that question? Do I Have to answer it? Obviously I do for you. Of course my heart goes out to them or to anyone who loses a child. I already posted that above somewhere. Would 99% of the population not have sympathy for anyone regardless of their class or creed?
Have some compassion for the love of God and done be so judgemental of people who've made a terrible mistake and are paying every second of every day for it.

My lack of sympathy for the McCanns has nothing to do with their class. 
Stop saying they made a mistake, they were negligent, would you leave your children like they did?
If you did and your daughter asked you the following morning why you didnt come when she cried would you leave them again? 
And you never answered my question, how do you feel about the media ignoring so many more missing children?

Where did I say anything about your lack of sympathy being down to their class?  Of course I feel sympathy for the parents ignored by the media. Read my f**king post and stop being so far up your own arse on political correctness. I said (as I assume most people would) feel sympathy for all parents who would lose a child. The McCanns drove the media campaign. I';ve no idea if/why/how other families in similar plights are ignored by the media but I certainly as a parent feel sorry for them all. But you being up on your high moral ground are more selective with your sympathy.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Minder on May 13, 2011, 10:11:26 PM
Some of you are missing the point, nobody is begrudging them the help they are getting. What sets a dangerous precedent is when the independence of the police is put at risk (arguments about their competence or otherwise is for another day), they have been asked to investigate a case by the PM who in turn has been pressured into that move by the Sun. What happens if there is a similar case and the Sun or the other media outlets don't deem the case just as worthy and there is no concerted pressure to investigate?The MET should be free to investigate what they see fit, the way it has been politicised by Cameron,which though it looks like he was pressurised by Christ knows who, Murdoch? (Tory donor I believe), stinks.

It is a nice PR exercise for him though.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ross matt on May 13, 2011, 10:12:00 PM
Bit rich from you considering you posted that the rest of their kids should be taken off them. Not to mention your media/race conspiracy theories. Your comments and those of Pints definitely imply to me you begrudge them the media attention which has helped reopen the case. I could care less whether that offends you or him.

At best ye'er comments (as another posted just said) are cold hearted. They made a mistake in leaving her unattended. But they have already paid a massive price for this. As the Father of 3 young girls myself my heart has always gone out to them (not to mention the mental images going through one's head imagining what Madelaine went through).  I really dont give a f**k how much help they get from anywhere. More power to them.

You really are a complete f**king idiot. "media/race conspiracy theories", eh? Shannon Matthews' family were treated the same way the McCanns were prior to the facts of that case coming to light, were they?

My comments do not begrudge the McCanns that they have managed to get a case reopened, not one little bit.. I begrudge the police and the government for not doing it for everybody else.

Yes, I did post that their other children should be taken from them and placed in care. Anyone who considers it acceptable to leave a three year old alone while they f**k off out to dinner is, in my opinion, unfit to be a parent. That is not a "mistake" - it is complete and utter incompetence.
have you even got children arsehole? you have never left them unattened, even for a second in the garden, playing outside etc. 99.9% of parents should have their children taken off them in that is your view. my children have been outside playing today while i was in the house. am i unfit to be a parent?

I refrained from asking either of them that question Sheedy for the simple reason I wouldnt even have thought a person would have had to have children to have sympathy for the McCann parents and all they've gone though.  I've never encountered such santimonious shite as has been posted by Gallsman in particular.

Well first off you are correct - the fact that I do not have children has no impact on my ability to sympathise with the McCanns, so that's that one out the window. I can't imagine what it would be like if it was one of my nieces of nephews, so I don't dare to imagine what it would be like for a parent.

Secondly, I never once stated I have no sympathy for the McCanns - I have every sympathy in the world for them. That does not prevent me from condemning them for the act of unforgivable gross negligence they committed in the first place.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: mylestheslasher on May 13, 2011, 10:12:09 PM
I have kids one is just 4 and the other is 1. There is no way I'd leave them unattendedat night on their beds. I wouldn't leave them anywhere except maybe in tge back yard which is well away from roads and only if I could hear them. It's a different world from the one we grew up in, too many sick f**ks on the world to take chances. That said I feel awful for the mccann family, they paid a terrible terrible price for doing what they did
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on May 13, 2011, 10:14:26 PM
Quote
it rich from you considering you posted that the rest of their kids should be taken off them.
If it was some single mother from a council estate who left the children home in bed and popped down to the pub you'd be screaming for social services because she was negligent.

Would I? How do you know that? Gallmans would call that "putting words in someones mouth".

If it's two middle class doctors who leave their children in a holiday apartment in Portugal and go to the pub it's a "mistake" or "foolish". 

Quote
At best ye'er comments (as another posted just said) are cold hearted. They made a mistake in leaving her unattended. But they have already paid a massive price for this. As the Father of 3 young girls myself my heart has always gone out to them (not to mention the mental images going through one's head imagining what Madelaine went through).  I really dont give a f**k how much help they get from anywhere. More power to them.
What about the missing children and their families who get no media attention? Does your heart go out to them? How do you feel about the media ignoring them?

Do you really have to ask me that question? Do I Have to answer it? Obviously I do for you. Of course my heart goes out to them or to anyone who loses a child. I already posted that above somewhere. Would 99% of the population not have sympathy for anyone regardless of their class or creed?
Have some compassion for the love of God and done be so judgemental of people who've made a terrible mistake and are paying every second of every day for it.

My lack of sympathy for the McCanns has nothing to do with their class. 
Stop saying they made a mistake, they were negligent, would you leave your children like they did?
If you did and your daughter asked you the following morning why you didnt come when she cried would you leave them again? 
And you never answered my question, how do you feel about the media ignoring so many more missing children?

Where did I say anything about your lack of sympathy being down to their class?  Of course I feel sympathy for the parents ignored by the media. Read my f**king post and stop being so far up your own arse on political correctness. I said (as I assume most people would) feel sympathy for all parents who would lose a child. The McCanns drove the media campaign. I';ve no idea if/why/how other families in similar plights are ignored by the media but I certainly as a parent feel sorry for them all. But you being up on your high moral ground are more selective with your sympathy.
You implied it when you said:
Quote
Would 99% of the population not have sympathy for anyone regardless of their class or creed?
Have some compassion for the love of God and done be so judgemental of people who've made a terrible mistake and are paying every second of every day for it.

As for the second bit in bold?
You really don't know?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ross matt on May 13, 2011, 10:16:26 PM
I have kids one is just 4 and the other is 1. There is no way I'd leave them unattendedat night on their beds. I wouldn't leave them anywhere except maybe in tge back yard which is well away from roads and only if I could hear them. It's a different world from the one we grew up in, too many sick f**ks on the world to take chances. That said I feel awful for the mccann family, they paid a terrible terrible price for doing what they did

Yes Myles. Exactly. I've 3 and like you have never and would never leave them. Overly protectful probably. But like you I've huge sympathy for the McCanns and agree they are paying a terrible price.

There are two posters on here. One who has no sympathy. The other who has sympathy but once Madelaine is back would take her and the rest of the kids of her. Oh yeah he also "condemns" them.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on May 13, 2011, 10:17:21 PM
I have kids one is just 4 and the other is 1. There is no way I'd leave them unattendedat night on their beds. I wouldn't leave them anywhere except maybe in tge back yard which is well away from roads and only if I could hear them. It's a different world from the one we grew up in, too many sick f**ks on the world to take chances. That said I feel awful for the mccann family, they paid a terrible terrible price for doing what they did

Yes Myles. Exactly. I've 3 and like you have never and would never leave them. Overly protectful probably. But like you I've huge sympathy for the McCanns and agree they are paying a terrible price.

There are two posters on here. One who has no sympathy. The other who has sympathy but once Madelaine is back would take her and the rest of the kids of her. Oh yeah he also "condemns" them.
You wouldn't condemn them for what they done?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ross matt on May 13, 2011, 10:21:26 PM
Quote
it rich from you considering you posted that the rest of their kids should be taken off them.
If it was some single mother from a council estate who left the children home in bed and popped down to the pub you'd be screaming for social services because she was negligent.

Would I? How do you know that? Gallmans would call that "putting words in someones mouth".

If it's two middle class doctors who leave their children in a holiday apartment in Portugal and go to the pub it's a "mistake" or "foolish". 

Quote
At best ye'er comments (as another posted just said) are cold hearted. They made a mistake in leaving her unattended. But they have already paid a massive price for this. As the Father of 3 young girls myself my heart has always gone out to them (not to mention the mental images going through one's head imagining what Madelaine went through).  I really dont give a f**k how much help they get from anywhere. More power to them.
What about the missing children and their families who get no media attention? Does your heart go out to them? How do you feel about the media ignoring them?

Do you really have to ask me that question? Do I Have to answer it? Obviously I do for you. Of course my heart goes out to them or to anyone who loses a child. I already posted that above somewhere. Would 99% of the population not have sympathy for anyone regardless of their class or creed?
Have some compassion for the love of God and done be so judgemental of people who've made a terrible mistake and are paying every second of every day for it.

My lack of sympathy for the McCanns has nothing to do with their class. 
Stop saying they made a mistake, they were negligent, would you leave your children like they did?
If you did and your daughter asked you the following morning why you didnt come when she cried would you leave them again? 
And you never answered my question, how do you feel about the media ignoring so many more missing children?

Where did I say anything about your lack of sympathy being down to their class?  Of course I feel sympathy for the parents ignored by the media. Read my f**king post and stop being so far up your own arse on political correctness. I said (as I assume most people would) feel sympathy for all parents who would lose a child. The McCanns drove the media campaign. I';ve no idea if/why/how other families in similar plights are ignored by the media but I certainly as a parent feel sorry for them all. But you being up on your high moral ground are more selective with your sympathy.
You implied it when you said:
Quote
Would 99% of the population not have sympathy for anyone regardless of their class or creed?
Have some compassion for the love of God and done be so judgemental of people who've made a terrible mistake and are paying every second of every day for it.

As for the second bit in bold?
You really don't know?

I was referring to myself when I made that statement. Where did it imply anything about your lack of sympathy being class related?  I assume there are many answers to the 2nd question. Money/status being one of them but there could be many others depending on the case itself etc. The McCann put on ferocious pressure to keep their case in the public eye as is their right.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: mylestheslasher on May 13, 2011, 10:22:07 PM
I have kids one is just 4 and the other is 1. There is no way I'd leave them unattendedat night on their beds. I wouldn't leave them anywhere except maybe in tge back yard which is well away from roads and only if I could hear them. It's a different world from the one we grew up in, too many sick f**ks on the world to take chances. That said I feel awful for the mccann family, they paid a terrible terrible price for doing what they did

Yes Myles. Exactly. I've 3 and like you have never and would never leave them. Overly protectful probably. But like you I've huge sympathy for the McCanns and agree they are paying a terrible price.

There are two posters on here. One who has no sympathy. The other who has sympathy but once Madelaine is back would take her and the rest of the kids of her. Oh yeah he also "condemns" them.
You wouldn't condemn them for what they done?

Don't know if condemn is the right word but put it like this. If I left my kids with some one to mind and they put them to bed and went to the pub I think I'd brain them. It would surely have to be described as negligent at least.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: gallsman on May 13, 2011, 10:23:28 PM
I have kids one is just 4 and the other is 1. There is no way I'd leave them unattendedat night on their beds. I wouldn't leave them anywhere except maybe in tge back yard which is well away from roads and only if I could hear them. It's a different world from the one we grew up in, too many sick f**ks on the world to take chances. That said I feel awful for the mccann family, they paid a terrible terrible price for doing what they did

Yes Myles. Exactly. I've 3 and like you have never and would never leave them. Overly protectful probably. But like you I've huge sympathy for the McCanns and agree they are paying a terrible price.

There are two posters on here. One who has no sympathy. The other who has sympathy but once Madelaine is back would take her and the rest of the kids of her. Oh yeah he also "condemns" them.

Wonderful, so now having gone back on the me having no sympathy bit (apology accepted, by the way) you, along with Sheedy up there, are saying it's acceptable to leave a three year old alone while you bollox off to have some craic. Jesus wept.

In this instance, if you don't condemn that act, you condone it. There's no middle ground.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: gallsman on May 13, 2011, 10:25:30 PM
ross, you keep trotting out the fact that the McCanns are doing everything in their power to keep the search for their daughter alive as if anyone is even attempting to claim that isn't the right thing to do. That's not what's being discussed.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ross matt on May 13, 2011, 10:25:40 PM
I have kids one is just 4 and the other is 1. There is no way I'd leave them unattendedat night on their beds. I wouldn't leave them anywhere except maybe in tge back yard which is well away from roads and only if I could hear them. It's a different world from the one we grew up in, too many sick f**ks on the world to take chances. That said I feel awful for the mccann family, they paid a terrible terrible price for doing what they did

Yes Myles. Exactly. I've 3 and like you have never and would never leave them. Overly protectful probably. But like you I've huge sympathy for the McCanns and agree they are paying a terrible price.

There are two posters on here. One who has no sympathy. The other who has sympathy but once Madelaine is back would take her and the rest of the kids of her. Oh yeah he also "condemns" them.
You wouldn't condemn them for what they done?
Condemn?????? What planet are you on? I may never have left my kids unattended but I'm not the perfect parent either nor am I the perfect person.  Who am I to condemn them? Look I'm sick repeating myself. I've nothing but sympathy for them.. for any other parent in the same situation.
This is going round in circles.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on May 13, 2011, 10:26:21 PM
Quote
it rich from you considering you posted that the rest of their kids should be taken off them.
If it was some single mother from a council estate who left the children home in bed and popped down to the pub you'd be screaming for social services because she was negligent.

Would I? How do you know that? Gallmans would call that "putting words in someones mouth".

If it's two middle class doctors who leave their children in a holiday apartment in Portugal and go to the pub it's a "mistake" or "foolish". 

Quote
At best ye'er comments (as another posted just said) are cold hearted. They made a mistake in leaving her unattended. But they have already paid a massive price for this. As the Father of 3 young girls myself my heart has always gone out to them (not to mention the mental images going through one's head imagining what Madelaine went through).  I really dont give a f**k how much help they get from anywhere. More power to them.
What about the missing children and their families who get no media attention? Does your heart go out to them? How do you feel about the media ignoring them?

Do you really have to ask me that question? Do I Have to answer it? Obviously I do for you. Of course my heart goes out to them or to anyone who loses a child. I already posted that above somewhere. Would 99% of the population not have sympathy for anyone regardless of their class or creed?
Have some compassion for the love of God and done be so judgemental of people who've made a terrible mistake and are paying every second of every day for it.

My lack of sympathy for the McCanns has nothing to do with their class. 
Stop saying they made a mistake, they were negligent, would you leave your children like they did?
If you did and your daughter asked you the following morning why you didnt come when she cried would you leave them again? 
And you never answered my question, how do you feel about the media ignoring so many more missing children?

Where did I say anything about your lack of sympathy being down to their class?  Of course I feel sympathy for the parents ignored by the media. Read my f**king post and stop being so far up your own arse on political correctness. I said (as I assume most people would) feel sympathy for all parents who would lose a child. The McCanns drove the media campaign. I';ve no idea if/why/how other families in similar plights are ignored by the media but I certainly as a parent feel sorry for them all. But you being up on your high moral ground are more selective with your sympathy.
You implied it when you said:
Quote
Would 99% of the population not have sympathy for anyone regardless of their class or creed?
Have some compassion for the love of God and done be so judgemental of people who've made a terrible mistake and are paying every second of every day for it.

As for the second bit in bold?
You really don't know?

I was referring to myself when I made that statement. Where did it imply anything about your lack of sympathy being class related?  I assume there are many answers to the 2nd question. Money/status being one of them but there could be many others depending on the case itself etc. The McCann put on ferocious pressure to keep their case in the public eye as is their right.
I've already pointed that out to you but it's hardly worth getting bogged down with.

Money/status is the only reason the McCanns are constantly in the media. 
What sort of a person finds it acceptable that money and status determines how much time and effort goes in to looking for a missing child. 
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: hardstation on May 13, 2011, 10:27:53 PM
As a side point, do people really think that there are more "sick fcukers" out there now than there were before? I grew up in Andytown in the early 90s, when you got on your bike and took yourself off all day. It was feckin class. It must be clean shite for kids these days.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ross matt on May 13, 2011, 10:29:19 PM
I have kids one is just 4 and the other is 1. There is no way I'd leave them unattendedat night on their beds. I wouldn't leave them anywhere except maybe in tge back yard which is well away from roads and only if I could hear them. It's a different world from the one we grew up in, too many sick f**ks on the world to take chances. That said I feel awful for the mccann family, they paid a terrible terrible price for doing what they did

Yes Myles. Exactly. I've 3 and like you have never and would never leave them. Overly protectful probably. But like you I've huge sympathy for the McCanns and agree they are paying a terrible price.

There are two posters on here. One who has no sympathy. The other who has sympathy but once Madelaine is back would take her and the rest of the kids of her. Oh yeah he also "condemns" them.

Wonderful, so now having gone back on the me having no sympathy bit (apology accepted, by the way) you, along with Sheedy up there, are saying it's acceptable to leave a three year old alone while you bollox off to have some craic. Jesus wept.

In this instance, if you don't condemn that act, you condone it. There's no middle ground.

You're not the brightest are you? ( I was hoping you were being playful with words on the "tick" reference post).
You say you have sympathy for them but you would have ALL their kids taken from them.
So I was being sarcastic in the post to Myles. I dont at all accept you have sympathy for them. I dont apologise at all or take anything back. I actually think like Sheedy said your an arsehole.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: gallsman on May 13, 2011, 10:31:13 PM
I have kids one is just 4 and the other is 1. There is no way I'd leave them unattendedat night on their beds. I wouldn't leave them anywhere except maybe in tge back yard which is well away from roads and only if I could hear them. It's a different world from the one we grew up in, too many sick f**ks on the world to take chances. That said I feel awful for the mccann family, they paid a terrible terrible price for doing what they did

Yes Myles. Exactly. I've 3 and like you have never and would never leave them. Overly protectful probably. But like you I've huge sympathy for the McCanns and agree they are paying a terrible price.

There are two posters on here. One who has no sympathy. The other who has sympathy but once Madelaine is back would take her and the rest of the kids of her. Oh yeah he also "condemns" them.

Wonderful, so now having gone back on the me having no sympathy bit (apology accepted, by the way) you, along with Sheedy up there, are saying it's acceptable to leave a three year old alone while you bollox off to have some craic. Jesus wept.

In this instance, if you don't condemn that act, you condone it. There's no middle ground.

You're not the brightest are you? ( I was hoping you were being playful with words on the "tick" reference post).
You say you have sympathy for them but you would have ALL their kids taken from them.
So I was being sarcastic in the post to Myles. I dont at all accept you have sympathy for them. I dont apologise at all or take anything back. I actually think like Sheedy said your an arsehole.

Grand, your refusal to condemn someone for the act of abandoning their three year old child for the sake of having a bite to eat and some drinks tells me all I need to know about you.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: mylestheslasher on May 13, 2011, 10:35:16 PM
As a side point, do people really think that there are more "sick fcukers" out there now than there were before? I grew up in Andytown in the early 90s, when you got on your bike and took yourself off all day. It was feckin class. It must be clean shite for kids these days.

Maybe there is no difference but there is more awareness now. Knowing what you know would you take a chance. When I was a kid I cycles 2 miles to national school, I walked it some times too. Today that same school has about 2 kids walking and even they are walked by their parents. No one cycles. Parents are afraid me included. That's what makes the mccanns action ai difficult for me to comprehend because they took it to a whole different level.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: gallsman on May 13, 2011, 10:37:31 PM
As a side point, do people really think that there are more "sick fcukers" out there now than there were before? I grew up in Andytown in the early 90s, when you got on your bike and took yourself off all day. It was feckin class. It must be clean shite for kids these days.

Maybe there is no difference but there is more awareness now. Knowing what you know would you take a chance. When I was a kid I cycles 2 miles to national school, I walked it some times too. Today that same school has about 2 kids walking and even they are walked by their parents. No one cycles. Parents are afraid me included. That's what makes the mccanns action ai difficult for me to comprehend because they took it to a whole different level.

The internet and technological awareness of kids is undoubtedly a factor as well. Children can be "groomed" in any number of ways, none of which were possible (or imaginable to the average person) 20 years or ago.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: tyrone girl on May 13, 2011, 10:38:04 PM
I have heard from sanctimonious dung in my life but some of u take the biscuit. 4 bloody years later and 60 odd pages later and the same crap is being spat from the same mouths.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Minder on May 13, 2011, 10:38:44 PM
On a side note, that Levi Belfield fella that is currently on trial in England for the murder of 13 year old Milly Dowler is one evil b**tard. He is currently doing life for the murder of two other young women.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Minder on May 13, 2011, 10:46:16 PM
David Cameron under fire for ‘political’ intervention in Madeleine McCann case

The Times


David Cameron’s decision to ask Scotland Yard to open a review into the case of Madeleine McCann is likely to cost millions of pounds and has sparked a row over political interference in policing.
The move to call in the Metropolitan Police to review the case could also divert resources from other police investigations in London.

A Met source told The Times that the case was case was “entirely political” but said that because it involved a missing child they would do their very best.
The intervention of the Prime Minister and Theresa May, the Home Secretary, in the case provoked controversy at a time when there are fears that the Government’s plans for elected police commissioners will lead to politicians interfering in operations.
It also led the mother of Ben Needham, who went missing on the Greek island of Kos in 1991, to demand similar police intervention in her family’s case.

Scotland Yard sought to defuse the row today by saying: “For clarity, the Commissioner was not ordered by the Prime Minister or Home Secretary to provide expertise to the Madeleine McCann case.
“He received a request, which he considered, and took the decision that on balance it was the right thing to do. This was subject to funding being made available by the Home Office, as this case is beyond the MPS’s jurisdiction.”
The Yard also released a letter from Mrs May in which she requested the Metropolitan Police to take up an offer from the Portuguese authorities for British police to help review the case.

Mrs May said the “request is supported by the Prime Minister” but then added that the nature of the co-operation and detail of what it might usefully entail was a matter for the operational judgment of the Met.
Police sources said Mrs May’s letter had put the Commissioner in a very difficult position, particularly as it mentioned that the Prime Minister was backing the request for help. “It would have been a very brave Commissioner to turn down that kind of letter, particularly in such a high-profile case where emotions are still running high,” a police source said.
Lord Harris of Haringey, who is a member of the Metropolitan Police Authority, said the case was heartbreaking, but argued that the intervention by the Prime Minister raised serious questions about political influence.
Kate and Gerry McCann appealed to Mr Cameron for help in finding their daughter, who went missing during a family holiday in Portugal in 2007, through an open letter in The Sun newspaper.

They asked if he, as a “devoted father and family man”, would agree to an “independent, transparent and comprehensive review of all information held in relation to Madeleine’s disappearance”.
Mr Cameron responded with a promise that the Government would see what more could be done to help in the search. “Your ordeal is every parent’s worst nightmare and my heart goes out to you both.”
The Home Office announced that British detectives would “bring their expertise” to the search for Madeleine.
But the intervention has caused controversy. Lord Harris claimed that the Prime Minister had driven “a coach and horses” through Home Office protocol that says the operational independence of the policy must be preserved.

“While no one doubts the desirability of doing what can sensibly be done to find out what has happened to Madeleine McCann, I can imagine that the senior leadership of the Metropolitan Police are not exactly happy about this,” he wrote.
“It again embroils their officers in a high-profile investigation, where the chances of success are unclear, and which will divert limited investigative resources away from other matters.”
He asked if the Met would be the default investigator for every case in the world involving a British citizen. Officers within the Met said the case could cost millions.

One source added: “If the Portuguese say they’re not interested then that’s it — there’s nothing we can do. We were hit with this unexpectedly and yes, it’s entirely political, but ultimately a child is missing and we will do our very best to find her, that’s what we do.”
The source admitted that the Met was coming to the case “completely cold” and would first have to try to assemble the documents collected by Leicestershire Police, which assisted the first inquiry, and to request access to Portuguese files, which would then need to be translated.
There are also now likely to be calls from other families who have been the victim of unsolved crimes abroad.
Kerry Grist-Needham, whose son went missing on the island of Kos in Greece in 1991, said she wanted a similar response in her case. “After the breaking news today I am happy to see the Government’s involvement with reviewing missing people cases abroad. I am pleased for the McCann family and look forward to the Government offering the same support to all families with loved ones missing abroad.”

Labour said it would support such calls, with a source arguing that the Government should go to all lengths to help families with missing children.
Yvette Cooper, Labour’s Shadow Home Secretary, said the party fully backed the McCann’s call for information. “A British child is missing, and the British authorities should be doing everything in their power to help in the search — including working with the Portuguese authorities in a review of all the available evidence,” she added.
Alan Johnson, the former Home Secretary, had commissioned the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre to look into the feasibility of a case review in the McCann inquiry. That was completed last year but officials have refused to let the family see it because it is too “sensitive”.
The McCanns are not pleased with the effort in Portugal, where the case was formally closed three years ago, and hope the Met can bring a new perspective.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on May 13, 2011, 10:49:02 PM
On a side note, that Levi Belfield fella that is currently on trial in England for the murder of 13 year old Milly Dowler is one evil b**tard. He is currently doing life for the murder of two other young women.

Oh yes, what a specimen of just how wrong the genes can go sometimes.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 13, 2011, 10:50:37 PM
Did Kate and Gerry share a bottle of Pinot with Cameron?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: hardstation on May 13, 2011, 11:02:18 PM
On a side note, that Levi Belfield fella that is currently on trial in England for the murder of 13 year old Milly Dowler is one evil b**tard. He is currently doing life for the murder of two other young women.
Was he at UCD?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 13, 2011, 11:08:41 PM
On a side note, that Levi Belfield fella that is currently on trial in England for the murder of 13 year old Milly Dowler is one evil b**tard. He is currently doing life for the murder of two other young women.
Was he at UCD?
Aye room 501 in halls.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Minder on May 13, 2011, 11:14:13 PM
They are on Late Late Show now
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: gallsman on May 13, 2011, 11:16:24 PM
They are on Late Late Show now

Am in Germany and can't access it. If you get the chance, would appreciate a summary.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 13, 2011, 11:23:30 PM
Ive never heard her speak before. Didn't realise she was a Scouser.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 13, 2011, 11:25:28 PM
Can't watch this, horrible situation
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Minder on May 13, 2011, 11:26:24 PM
Can't watch this, horrible situation

You think thats bad, Marty Morrissey was on before them with the top three buttons on his shirt undone.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 13, 2011, 11:30:26 PM
Can't watch this, horrible situation

You think thats bad, Marty Morrissey was on before them with the top three buttons on his short undone.

Marty would need to invest in one of these when on tv

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: boojangles on May 14, 2011, 12:18:22 AM
Can't watch this, horrible situation

Very uncomfortable viewing. God knows how they stayed so calm. Tubridy put his foot in it once or twice I thought, but I suppose with the sensitivity involved even Mother Teresa might not have got it right.
Why did they choose to give the first press conference in Dublin and appear on TV? I know Gerry has the Donegal connection
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Hoof Hearted on May 14, 2011, 12:23:28 AM
Can't watch this, horrible situation

You think thats bad, Marty Morrissey was on before them with the top three buttons on his short undone.

Marty would need to invest in one of these when on tv

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


is that your de-commissioned one ?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 14, 2011, 12:42:24 AM
I actually have one, label still on it :D

Long story
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 14, 2011, 01:04:36 AM
In Britain, over 350 kids are snatched a year!! Since Maddie has been missing there have been over 1400 kids snatched in Britain.

That's a serious amount, really horrible.

My wife stands at the door until the kids go into their friends house to play and then will go out and check on them after ten minutes!!

When I grew up I would have left the house at ten in the morning on a Saturday and got home around 10 at night when we were kids!!
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Mike Sheehy on May 14, 2011, 08:19:13 AM
has seafoid implicated Mossad yet ?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: mylestheslasher on May 14, 2011, 09:57:15 AM
The post above clearly shows the calibre of its author, to use a thread on a kidnapped toddler to continue a feud on another thread.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Mike Sheehy on May 14, 2011, 10:49:37 AM
The post above clearly shows the calibre of its author, to use a thread on a kidnapped toddler to continue a feud on another thread.


you are right. I hold my hand up and I apologize unreservedly for using this thread to have a go at fellow travellers..whoops, sorry, your mates ..like seafoid, who display anti-semitic tendencies . It was uncalled for and unjustified and I will try to do better.

So, lets instead concentrate on the issues at hand.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Mike Sheehy on May 14, 2011, 11:23:24 AM
I have kids one is just 4 and the other is 1. There is no way I'd leave them unattendedat night on their beds. I wouldn't leave them anywhere except maybe in tge back yard which is well away from roads and only if I could hear them. It's a different world from the one we grew up in, too many sick f**ks on the world to take chances. That said I feel awful for the mccann family, they paid a terrible terrible price for doing what they did

Yes Myles. Exactly. I've 3 and like you have never and would never leave them. Overly protectful probably. But like you I've huge sympathy for the McCanns and agree they are paying a terrible price.

There are two posters on here. One who has no sympathy. The other who has sympathy but once Madelaine is back would take her and the rest of the kids of her. Oh yeah he also "condemns" them.
You wouldn't condemn them for what they done?

Don't know if condemn is the right word but put it like this. If I left my kids with some one to mind and they put them to bed and went to the pub I think I'd brain them. It would surely have to be described as negligent at least.

bit of a judgemental twat aren't you ? "brain them" would you ? ....I think they made a decision that 99% of parents would make genuinely thinking it is a 99% safe decision, but unfortunately for them they were the 1% of the 1% ....just enough to make themselves a target target for the other 99% of 99% smug b**tards like you.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: anglocelt39 on May 14, 2011, 11:35:12 AM
To summarise the discussion to date then, Sheehy is a prize winning knob.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: anglocelt39 on May 14, 2011, 11:45:57 AM
To summarise the discussion to date then, Sheehy is a prize winning knob.

classy. have you anything interesting to say ?


Just doing you a favour by indulging your attention seeking tendencies Michael.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Mike Sheehy on May 14, 2011, 11:48:58 AM
To summarise the discussion to date then, Sheehy is a prize winning knob.

classy. have you anything interesting to say ?


Just doing you a favour by indulging your attention seeking tendencies Michael.

still asleep.....you are singularly uninteresting poster .
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Mike Sheehy on May 14, 2011, 11:51:52 AM
To summarise the discussion to date then, Sheehy is a prize winning knob.

classy. have you anything interesting to say ?



Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: anglocelt39 on May 14, 2011, 12:11:15 PM
Weathers fine today Mike why don't you go on out there and play with your ball
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: pintsofguinness on May 14, 2011, 12:23:57 PM
To summarise the discussion to date then, Sheehy is a prize winning knob.
It's hardly a new revelation....
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: deiseach on May 14, 2011, 12:44:43 PM
As a side point, do people really think that there are more "sick fcukers" out there now than there were before? I grew up in Andytown in the early 90s, when you got on your bike and took yourself off all day. It was feckin class. It must be clean shite for kids these days.

There are probably a few more weirdos out and about than there used to be - God knows how many of them were swept up by chance and put into institutions with lots of other people who had no place in there. Are there significantly more? I don't know. Everyone had their local Boo Radley to avoid back in the day too
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: mylestheslasher on May 14, 2011, 12:56:26 PM
I'm out of this thread folks, I have a bit more about me than getting into a slagging match with the likes of Sheehy, on a tragic event like this, who yet again is intent in wrecking a serious thread all in the name of wind up. Perhaps the mods might review the last chance they gave this guy and kick him out of this board.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: All of a Sludden on May 14, 2011, 02:00:35 PM
I got kicked out of the library today. Apparently I wasn't allowed to move Kate McCann's book into the murder mystery section.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: under the bar on May 14, 2011, 02:06:25 PM
Quote
I got kicked out of the library today. Apparently I wasn't allowed to move Kate McCann's book into the murder mystery section.

I'd very much doubt you've ever been in a library
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: ziggysego on May 14, 2011, 02:13:36 PM
Quote
I got kicked out of the library today. Apparently I wasn't allowed to move Kate McCann's book into the murder mystery section.

I'd very much doubt you've ever been in a library

Go to 1:10. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtPiK7bMwAg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtPiK7bMwAg)
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: All of a Sludden on May 15, 2011, 04:22:26 PM
Quote
I got kicked out of the library today. Apparently I wasn't allowed to move Kate McCann's book into the murder mystery section.

I'd very much doubt you've ever been in a library


The librarian told me that my jeans were too long and wouldn't let me in until I did something about it.

I thought to myself "That's a turn up for the books..."
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: gerry on July 28, 2011, 12:24:04 PM
could it be true

Indian police take DNA from little girl British and American tourists believe is missing Madeleine


 (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2019698/Madeleine-McCann-spotted-north-Indian-market-tourist.html?ITO=1490)
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Nally Stand on July 28, 2011, 12:48:10 PM
could it be true

Indian police take DNA from little girl British and American tourists believe is missing Madeleine


 (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2019698/Madeleine-McCann-spotted-north-Indian-market-tourist.html?ITO=1490)

Doubtful! So far, places where people have "spotted" her include:

Algeria
Amsterdam
Australia
Bosnia
Brussels
Canada
Croatia
Dubai
Eksel, Belgium
England
France
Majorca
Malta
Morocco
New Zealand
Portugal
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
Venezuela
Washington

...and now India

(http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/SIGHTINGS.htm) (http://(http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/SIGHTINGS.htm))


Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: AZOffaly on July 28, 2011, 12:56:16 PM
It is doubtful alright, but a DNA test is a fairly big step. They must not be that convinced by this girl's parents.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Rouge_Diablo on July 28, 2011, 01:05:54 PM
"The woman raised concerns with other tourists who agreed with her. At one point an American man is said to have tried to take the girl from the couple. "

Oh the irony.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Nally Stand on July 28, 2011, 01:24:10 PM
I'd imagine it's just another case of some feather brain seeing a blonde haired child and deciding it therefor must be Madeline McCann
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: Nally Stand on July 28, 2011, 02:50:28 PM
From ITV

"The family of Madeleine McCann has played down a reported sighting of their missing daughter in India.

Speaking to ITV News family spokesman Clarence Mitchell said: "Nothing leads us to believe that this 'sighting' is any more credible than any others."

Police were thought to be investigating after a British woman spotted a six-year-old girl who appeared to look like Madeleine in the city of Leh in the north of the country on Friday.

Although the French woman and Belgian man who were with her insisted they were her biological parents police still took their passports to check.

Clarence Mitchell added: "Initial reports were very confused - some witnesses said the little girl was about 6-years-old - Madeleine is now eight and would look substantially different from the little girl who was taken. The search for Madeline is very much alive and we will continue to follow up every lead."
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: mylestheslasher on July 28, 2011, 04:36:29 PM
Wouldn't it be fantastic if that wee girl was found, however it does seem almost impossible sadly.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: nrico2006 on July 28, 2011, 04:43:01 PM
Sad that alot of those missing never got the same attention.  Would be great if she was found. 

Has there never been any clue to what happened Amy Fitzpatrick?

Was Blathnaid Timothy ever found?
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: mylestheslasher on July 28, 2011, 04:48:40 PM
Sad that alot of those missing never got the same attention.  Would be great if she was found. 

Has there never been any clue to what happened Amy Fitzpatrick?

Was Blathnaid Timothy ever found?

It's true what you say. A friend of mines brother vanished in Holland 3 yrs ago and has never been seen since. It's an horrific thing the not knowing. Their life is on hold ever since and no sign of any news, good or bad.
Title: Re: Maddie McCann
Post by: tyrone girl on July 28, 2011, 09:42:31 PM
Sad that alot of those missing never got the same attention.  Would be great if she was found. 

Has there never been any clue to what happened Amy Fitzpatrick?

Was Blathnaid Timothy ever found?

Maybe im wrong but was it not concluded in all probability that Blathnaid Timothy took her own life? Didnt the taxi driver take her to Howth harbour, i thought i read somewhere that thats the conclusion her family and the guards came to.

Anyway back to the subject it would be fantastic if the little girl was found. Do think its extremely unlikely that this case is her. Have no idea why they publicised it now rather than wait on the outcome. Surely the "eye" madeline has must have been evident on this child as obviously if she didnt have that she could have been ruled out immediately. Sad state of affairs all round and another heart wrenching disappointment for her parents if its turns out wrong.