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Non GAA Discussion => General discussion => Topic started by: Eamonnca1 on April 18, 2017, 07:09:42 PM

Title: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 18, 2017, 07:09:42 PM
Worth a thread of its own?

My prediction is a Liberal comeback because of Corbyn's uselessness and there being nobody else for the Remainers in England and Wales to vote for. Between the Liberals and the SNP, the opposition benches could get interesting.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: BarryBreensBandage on April 18, 2017, 07:17:07 PM
Another bloody election - TV saturated with nothing in particular, while the status quo of under funded, dysfunctional public services remains.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: An Watcher on April 18, 2017, 07:32:54 PM
Not that into my politics but am I right in saying that because the SNP are doing so well at the moment Labour have no chance of winning as Scotland was a Labour stronghold at one stage?  Basically it will decide how far the conservatives are ahead and the order of the smaller parties?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on April 18, 2017, 07:41:13 PM
Not that into my politics but am I right in saying that because the SNP are doing so well at the moment Labour have no chance of winning as Scotland was a Labour stronghold at one stage?  Basically it will decide how far the conservatives are ahead and the order of the smaller parties?
Best Labour can do is a coalition unless they win back those seats in Scotland.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: magpie seanie on April 18, 2017, 07:53:18 PM
Worth a thread of its own?

My prediction is a Liberal comeback because of Corbyn's uselessness and there being nobody else for the Remainers in England and Wales to vote for. Between the Liberals and the SNP, the opposition benches could get interesting.


Corbyn is a very good, principled man in a tremendously difficult situation. The world would be a better place if we had the Jeremy Corbyn's making the decisions rather than the Theresa May's. Throughout his political career he has been brave enough to take many unpopular/unfashionable stances and been proven right time and time again. The supporters of the butcher of Baghdad in his own party should get behind him rather that try to get rid of him. Most of them are practically tories anyway though.

I think and hope that May gets her ass kicked for this attempted power grab. I've a feeling it will not work out as well for her as it looks at the moment.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: imtommygunn on April 18, 2017, 07:53:53 PM
Not that into my politics but am I right in saying that because the SNP are doing so well at the moment Labour have no chance of winning as Scotland was a Labour stronghold at one stage?  Basically it will decide how far the conservatives are ahead and the order of the smaller parties?

Really i don't think anyone can beat the tories at present and may knows that. My interpretation of the election is that it is a put up or shut up to the opposition.

Snp have too many seats so will probably drop too which isn't good. Tories might make some, not much but some, ground in scotland. Not sure labour will.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on April 18, 2017, 07:59:14 PM
It is basically the Tories v everyone else. If the others decided to pick the best candidate for each seat Fermanagh South Tyrone style they could beat the Tories.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: T Fearon on April 18, 2017, 08:05:42 PM
I can only see a drastically increased Tory majority.Corbyn is the Michael Foot of the current generation,unrealistic policies of the loony left.SNP could take a bit of a hit,but not much.Lib Dems will regain a few seats but not many.Sadly due to two ineffective nationalist parties in the North,Fermanagh/South Tyrone and North Belfast (both nationalist majority constituencies) will be retained by Unionists.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: armaghniac on April 18, 2017, 08:32:11 PM
I can only see a drastically increased Tory majority.

Because England is either red or blue, like the US, there are plenty of Labour seats who even a big fall in the vote would not change the seat, there aren't that many marginals. So the majority will increase, but perhaps not as much as you think, given that the Tories will lose a few seats to Lib Dems.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38499645
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: screenexile on April 18, 2017, 08:44:35 PM
Whatever about Teresa May personally being a horrible human being she's smart and pragmatic. . . The numbers are telling her that a General Election right now will give Labour a defeat they can't recover from anytime soon and will give her the mandate to do what she wants.

Barring something sensational the Tories will have their biggest victory for a long time and the NHS/Welfare will be destroyed. Not looking forward to it.

If only Corbyn had an ounce of charisma but sadly he's got none and even though he has good ideas and is principled etc. etc. It matters little when he's not able to communicate his message to the electorate in a meaningful way!
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Avondhu star on April 18, 2017, 08:48:47 PM
The opposition parties should realise who the enemy is. Splitting the anti Tory vote and letting theTories win constiteuncies with total votes less than the combined opposition vote is ridiculous. They are looking at 15 years of Tory government
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Avondhu star on April 18, 2017, 08:50:22 PM
Whatever about Teresa May personally being a horrible human being she's smart and pragmatic. . . The numbers are telling her that a General Election right now will give Labour a defeat they can't recover from anytime soon and will give her the mandate to do what she wants.

Barring something sensational the Tories will have their biggest victory for a long time and the NHS/Welfare will be destroyed. Not looking forward to it.

If only Corbyn had an ounce of charisma but sadly he's got none and even though he has good ideas and is principled etc. etc. It matters little when he's not able to communicate his message to the electorate in a meaningful way!
  Maybe Paul Murphy and his loons could go over and give him support
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Throw ball on April 18, 2017, 09:00:02 PM
Another situation were the Tory leader has put the interest of the party over what is best for the country. Just like Cameron with the Brevit vote.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: armaghniac on April 18, 2017, 10:12:40 PM
Whatever about Teresa May personally being a horrible human being she's smart and pragmatic. . . The numbers are telling her that a General Election right now will give Labour a defeat they can't recover from anytime soon and will give her the mandate to do what she wants.

Barring something sensational the Tories will have their biggest victory for a long time and the NHS/Welfare will be destroyed. Not looking forward to it.

If only Corbyn had an ounce of charisma but sadly he's got none and even though he has good ideas and is principled etc. etc. It matters little when he's not able to communicate his message to the electorate in a meaningful way!
  Maybe Paul Murphy and his loons could go over and give him support

This would be a good opportunity to then cut links with Britain.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: yellowcard on April 18, 2017, 10:14:14 PM
Political opportunism from May and it's a self serving decision despite consistently stating that there would be no election sprung.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: T Fearon on April 18, 2017, 10:30:54 PM
Corbyn' policies are as bird brained as Micheal Foot's back in the early 80s.He has yet to learn that commmunism/socialism is great as long as someone else pays the bills.

Election should render the DUP members at Westminster surplus to requirements at Westminster.SNP had their best ever election last time,just like SF they deliver little or nothing,and a lot of Scots are beginning to see through them.

Overall this could be as bad for Labour as 1997 was for the Tories.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: ashman on April 18, 2017, 10:35:00 PM
Another situation were the Tory leader has put the interest of the party over what is best for the country. Just like Cameron with the Brevit vote.

Thes are  two democratic votes .  The people will speak in each .   
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: bennydorano on April 19, 2017, 12:27:00 AM
Check out MPs' majorities & other info. Brokenshire in a safe seat.

http://www.parliament.uk/mps-lords-and-offices/mps/
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Throw ball on April 19, 2017, 01:27:12 AM
Another situation were the Tory leader has put the interest of the party over what is best for the country. Just like Cameron with the Brevit vote.

Thes are  two democratic votes .  The people will speak in each .

The problem is that democracy is a moment in time ideal. In nearly all occasions the electorate are not knowledgeable enough on the issues to make a reasoned assessment on which to vote. Cameron believed the UK was better in the EU but to keep the Conservative party together agreed on a referendum he assumed would back him. May is calling an election to keep the conservatives in power for longer so that if the Brexit talks take longer they are still in power and can call an election at the most opportune moment to win again. It is self serving. Politicians are supposed to serve their country not themselves. At the very least elections should be for fixed terms. I also wonder if a conservative government had have been in charge in the late 90s would the Good Friday agreement ever have come about.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on April 19, 2017, 05:34:50 AM
Corbyn' policies are as bird brained as Micheal Foot's back in the early 80s.He has yet to learn that commmunism/socialism is great as long as someone else pays the bills.

Election should render the DUP members at Westminster surplus to requirements at Westminster.SNP had their best ever election last time,just like SF they deliver little or nothing,and a lot of Scots are beginning to see through them.

Overall this could be as bad for Labour as 1997 was for the Tories.
Socialism is great as long as someone pays the bills was Thatcher propaganda. 
Income inequality in the UK is back to 1920s levels. Real earnings (adjusted for inflation) are 15% lower than in 2007. At the lower end of the earnings scale, 800,000 people are on zero hours contracts. The UK government spends billions topping up low wages. Other taxpayers sponsor this.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Hardy on April 19, 2017, 09:21:25 AM
Betfair
Most seats
Tories 1/11
Lab. 14.5/1
Lib. 40/1
Tory majority 1/5
No majority 5.2/1
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AQMP on April 19, 2017, 09:53:08 AM
This is a smart move by May (though some sources say it was the rest of the Cabinet who wanted an election).  The Tories are 20%+ ahead in the polls.  Even if they're out by 5% the lead is still 15%+.  The media will be happy to carry the message "Labour in disarray" and "Corbyn unelectable" for the Tories as they have been doing since he became leader.  The problem for Remainers is that the Remain vote is split over a number of parties, whereas the Tories will be going forward as the party of Brexit.

Expect the North not to feature, Laobour to do not as badly as expected (there are about 200 pretty "safe" Labour seats), Lib Dems are starting from a low base so will probably win a good few seats, SNP have nowhere to go but down, and why anyone would vote for UKIP now is beyond me.  Tory majority of 75 - 100, then May will go forward with a mandate for what will turn out to be a soft Brexit.  Remember where you heard it first!
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Tony Baloney on April 19, 2017, 10:15:09 AM
Corbyn' policies are as bird brained as Micheal Foot's back in the early 80s.He has yet to learn that commmunism/socialism is great as long as someone else pays the bills.

Election should render the DUP members at Westminster surplus to requirements at Westminster.SNP had their best ever election last time,just like SF they deliver little or nothing,and a lot of Scots are beginning to see through them.

Overall this could be as bad for Labour as 1997 was for the Tories.
Socialism is great as long as someone pays the bills was Thatcher propaganda. 
Income inequality in the UK is back to 1920s levels. Real earnings (adjusted for inflation) are 15% lower than in 2007. At the lower end of the earnings scale, 800,000 people are on zero hours contracts. The UK government spends billions topping up low wages. Other taxpayers sponsor this.
The problem Labour have now, and was the case at the last 2 elections, is that tax-paying Joe Public simply don't trust them on the economy, due to a perceived "loony left" agenda which would work out well for the "scroungers" at the expense of the hard-working taxpayer. New Labour was successful in getting over the line because they were Tory-lite in that regard and were trusted. Corbyn in place will not change the status quo for at least another 2 elections.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Dougal Maguire on April 19, 2017, 10:55:54 AM
Hard to know. We live in strange times - Trump, Brexit referendum.  Corbyn's underdog appeal could work for him in the same way it worked for Major against Kinnock in 1992.  Corbyn might also appeal to young voters wishing to protest. It's a long shot I know but here's hoping
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: maddog on April 19, 2017, 11:15:19 AM
I'm convinced that if May told the electorate that if by voting Tory they would all be homeless by Christmas they would still vote them in.

Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: yellowcard on April 19, 2017, 12:03:12 PM
Theresa May refusing to take part in leaders debates is a strange position to take so early in the campaign. It gives her political opponents a stick to beat her with and looks like a very cowardly position to take for an as yet unelected prime minister.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on April 19, 2017, 12:10:06 PM
Corbyn' policies are as bird brained as Micheal Foot's back in the early 80s.He has yet to learn that commmunism/socialism is great as long as someone else pays the bills.

Election should render the DUP members at Westminster surplus to requirements at Westminster.SNP had their best ever election last time,just like SF they deliver little or nothing,and a lot of Scots are beginning to see through them.

Overall this could be as bad for Labour as 1997 was for the Tories.
Socialism is great as long as someone pays the bills was Thatcher propaganda. 
Income inequality in the UK is back to 1920s levels. Real earnings (adjusted for inflation) are 15% lower than in 2007. At the lower end of the earnings scale, 800,000 people are on zero hours contracts. The UK government spends billions topping up low wages. Other taxpayers sponsor this.
The problem Labour have now, and was the case at the last 2 elections, is that tax-paying Joe Public simply don't trust them on the economy, due to a perceived "loony left" agenda which would work out well for the "scroungers" at the expense of the hard-working taxpayer. New Labour was successful in getting over the line because they were Tory-lite in that regard and were trusted. Corbyn in place will not change the status quo for at least another 2 elections.
Looney Tory austerity has blown the deficit to 6% of GDP. The economic model is banjaxed
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AQMP on April 19, 2017, 12:12:56 PM
Theresa May refusing to take part in leaders debates is a strange position to take so early in the campaign. It gives her political opponents a stick to beat her with and looks like a very cowardly position to take for an as yet unelected prime minister.

In court when the prosecution has a weak case often the defendant does not testify as there is nothing to defend.  A TV debate is unlikely to win the Tories many more votes and the possibility is there that she would perform badly (thinking on her feet is not one of May's strengths) or make some gaffe that would cost them votes.  From their point of view, best leave well alone.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on April 19, 2017, 12:18:00 PM
No majority @5.2/1 looks nice.
The UK is going through a period of political chaos

Ignoring NI there will have been 4 big votes in 4 years. 2xGE, Brexit and Scottish independence.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: LeoMc on April 19, 2017, 01:08:44 PM
This is a smart move by May (though some sources say it was the rest of the Cabinet who wanted an election).  The Tories are 20%+ ahead in the polls.  Even if they're out by 5% the lead is still 15%+.  The media will be happy to carry the message "Labour in disarray" and "Corbyn unelectable" for the Tories as they have been doing since he became leader.  The problem for Remainers is that the Remain vote is split over a number of parties, whereas the Tories will be going forward as the party of Brexit.

Expect the North not to feature, Laobour to do not as badly as expected (there are about 200 pretty "safe" Labour seats), Lib Dems are starting from a low base so will probably win a good few seats, SNP have nowhere to go but down, and why anyone would vote for UKIP now is beyond me.  Tory majority of 75 - 100, then May will go forward with a mandate for what will turn out to be a soft Brexit.  Remember where you heard it first!
Exactly, it is as much about not being dependent upon the Looney Right (inc DUP) whilst Brexit negotiations are ongoing.
LCA's were put on an election footing a couple of months ago.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Orior on April 19, 2017, 01:58:28 PM
Betfair
Most seats
Tories 1/11
Lab. 14.5/1
Lib. 40/1
Tory majority 1/5
No majority 5.2/1

Please desist from making the election a little interesting, lol.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: yellowcard on April 19, 2017, 02:01:45 PM
Theresa May refusing to take part in leaders debates is a strange position to take so early in the campaign. It gives her political opponents a stick to beat her with and looks like a very cowardly position to take for an as yet unelected prime minister.

In court when the prosecution has a weak case often the defendant does not testify as there is nothing to defend.  A TV debate is unlikely to win the Tories many more votes and the possibility is there that she would perform badly (thinking on her feet is not one of May's strengths) or make some gaffe that would cost them votes.  From their point of view, best leave well alone.

There is plenty to defend alright (just the small matter of her Brexit position).

She is simply afraid to do it because she knows that she is still unable to outline the mechanics of a post Brexit Britain, the cost of leaving the EU, the difficulty in reaching trade agreements, the threat to the union. In essence they are still making it up as they go along. Unfortunately due to Corbyn's position on Brexit, the labour party will not benefit in any shape or form by a leaders debate. The Lib Dem's would be the biggest benificiary from focussing on Brexit and pinning her down to the issues. The election has been called on the basis of a Brexit negotiating stance but at the same time she wants to avoid talking about it.

Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: macdanger2 on April 19, 2017, 02:35:19 PM
Hard to know. We live in strange times - Trump, Brexit referendum.  Corbyn's underdog appeal could work for him in the same way it worked for Major against Kinnock in 1992.  Corbyn might also appeal to young voters wishing to protest. It's a long shot I know but here's hoping

It will be interesting to see if there's a surge in young voters and if so, where will they go
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: dec on April 19, 2017, 02:38:16 PM
Theresa May refusing to take part in leaders debates is a strange position to take so early in the campaign. It gives her political opponents a stick to beat her with and looks like a very cowardly position to take for an as yet unelected prime minister.

In court when the prosecution has a weak case often the defendant does not testify as there is nothing to defend.  A TV debate is unlikely to win the Tories many more votes and the possibility is there that she would perform badly (thinking on her feet is not one of May's strengths) or make some gaffe that would cost them votes.  From their point of view, best leave well alone.

There is plenty to defend alright (just the small matter of her Brexit position).

She is simply afraid to do it because she knows that she is still unable to outline the mechanics of a post Brexit Britain, the cost of leaving the EU, the difficulty in reaching trade agreements, the threat to the union. In essence they are still making it up as they go along. Unfortunately due to Corbyn's position on Brexit, the labour party will not benefit in any shape or form by a leaders debate. The Lib Dem's would be the biggest benificiary from focussing on Brexit and pinning her down to the issues. The election has been called on the basis of a Brexit negotiating stance but at the same time she wants to avoid talking about it.

The Tories have a large lead in the opinion polls, they are unlikely to gain any more voters because of a Theresa May debate performance. She has not much to gain and plenty to lose in a debate so tactically it is a smart move.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on April 19, 2017, 02:40:49 PM
Both Trump and the Leave campaign turned popular anger towards economic inequality into political success. The Tories are doubling down on poll support to win a GE. Neither Make America great again nor Brexit will address the structural issues that caused people to vote for them. The people in both cases will be betrayed. I hope the Tories win this election. They deserve the consequences. 
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: yellowcard on April 19, 2017, 02:46:12 PM
Theresa May refusing to take part in leaders debates is a strange position to take so early in the campaign. It gives her political opponents a stick to beat her with and looks like a very cowardly position to take for an as yet unelected prime minister.

In court when the prosecution has a weak case often the defendant does not testify as there is nothing to defend.  A TV debate is unlikely to win the Tories many more votes and the possibility is there that she would perform badly (thinking on her feet is not one of May's strengths) or make some gaffe that would cost them votes.  From their point of view, best leave well alone.

There is plenty to defend alright (just the small matter of her Brexit position).

She is simply afraid to do it because she knows that she is still unable to outline the mechanics of a post Brexit Britain, the cost of leaving the EU, the difficulty in reaching trade agreements, the threat to the union. In essence they are still making it up as they go along. Unfortunately due to Corbyn's position on Brexit, the labour party will not benefit in any shape or form by a leaders debate. The Lib Dem's would be the biggest benificiary from focussing on Brexit and pinning her down to the issues. The election has been called on the basis of a Brexit negotiating stance but at the same time she wants to avoid talking about it.

The Tories have a large lead in the opinion polls, they are unlikely to gain any more voters because of a Theresa May debate performance. She has not much to gain and plenty to lose in a debate so tactically it is a smart move.

Wouldn't agree with that. The aesthetics of an empty chair in any debate (one of which has only recently been announced by ITV) would not look good for any prospective prime minister. She might want to avoid debating the issues but trying to become invisible just exacerbates the problem in my view. 
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: dec on April 19, 2017, 02:51:06 PM
The aesthetics of an empty chair in any debate (one of which has only recently been announced by ITV) would not look good for any prospective prime minister. She might want to avoid debating the issues but trying to become invisible just exacerbates the problem in my view. 

That is assuming that the broadcasters would actually stick an empty chair on the stage.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: screenexile on April 19, 2017, 02:52:12 PM
The aesthetics of an empty chair in any debate (one of which has only recently been announced by ITV) would not look good for any prospective prime minister. She might want to avoid debating the issues but trying to become invisible just exacerbates the problem in my view. 

That is assuming that the broadcasters would actually stick an empty chair on the stage.

Channel 4 would do it!!! I doubt any of the other would.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: yellowcard on April 19, 2017, 02:56:19 PM
The aesthetics of an empty chair in any debate (one of which has only recently been announced by ITV) would not look good for any prospective prime minister. She might want to avoid debating the issues but trying to become invisible just exacerbates the problem in my view. 

That is assuming that the broadcasters would actually stick an empty chair on the stage.

Even if they don't, her absence in any debate could be counter productive. I think she could yet be forced into another U-turn on this issue as it simply gives her political opponents a stick with which to beat her.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: gallsman on April 19, 2017, 03:06:58 PM
Too many West Wing watchers talking about empty chair debates!

May would absolutely steamroll through Corbyn in a debate anyway. Labour should be delighted to get away from the prospect.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Carmen Stateside on April 19, 2017, 03:23:36 PM
ITV the first to confirm televised debate.  Puts May in a difficult position now.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AQMP on April 19, 2017, 03:26:29 PM
ITV the first to confirm televised debate.  Puts May in a difficult position now.

Didn't Blair turn them down in 2005??
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: screenexile on April 19, 2017, 03:29:10 PM
Too many West Wing watchers talking about empty chair debates!

May would absolutely steamroll through Corbyn in a debate anyway. Labour should be delighted to get away from the prospect.

Why wouldn't she then?!
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: gallsman on April 19, 2017, 03:35:04 PM
Too many West Wing watchers talking about empty chair debates!

May would absolutely steamroll through Corbyn in a debate anyway. Labour should be delighted to get away from the prospect.

Why wouldn't she then?!

Because she might have a harder time of it from someone competent like Sturgeon.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: bennydorano on April 19, 2017, 05:48:43 PM
ITV the first to confirm televised debate.  Puts May in a difficult position now.

Didn't Blair turn them down in 2005??
Are they not a more recent phenomenon, first one I recall was the GE that ended up with the Coalition government. Cameron wanted to increase his profile, Gordon Brown was resistant but did it as the Tory media got going at him.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on April 19, 2017, 07:38:32 PM
Too many West Wing watchers talking about empty chair debates!

May would absolutely steamroll through Corbyn in a debate anyway. Labour should be delighted to get away from the prospect.

Why wouldn't she then?!

Such debates always favour the minor players and not incumbents and allow the others to gang up on the incumbent to show their own views.

May has nothing to gain from a tv debate and plenty to lose.  She is not a natural performer and not as vain as Blair and Cameron who were style without substance and natural performers.  She knows she would leave some hostages to fortune.  AT PMQs she shows that she has some grasp of the facts but just repeats prepared lines.

On top of all of that she doesn't need to do the tv debate while the others do need it for exposure.

In addition she does not want to give Corbyn a sympathy vote as she treats him in a derisory fashion.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on April 19, 2017, 07:40:06 PM
ITV the first to confirm televised debate.  Puts May in a difficult position now.

Didn't Blair turn them down in 2005??
Are they not a more recent phenomenon, first one I recall was the GE that ended up with the Coalition government. Cameron wanted to increase his profile, Gordon Brown was resistant but did it as the Tory media got going at him.

An American phenomena going back to the Nixon debate.  Seen as essential for US audiences.  Never change any minds.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on April 19, 2017, 08:18:14 PM
Ken Clarke called Brexit Alice in Wonderland and that is what the Tories look like. More than half the MPs  voted Remain yet they all rowed behind May who is terrified of the Daily Mail. And she talks about leadership.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Orior on April 19, 2017, 08:22:44 PM
From the Tony Fearon construct-your-own-joke book:

Don't March May into an April debate.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on April 19, 2017, 08:45:51 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/19/gina-miller-best-for-britain-tactical-voting-against-hard-brexit
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 19, 2017, 08:57:31 PM
ITV the first to confirm televised debate.  Puts May in a difficult position now.

Didn't Blair turn them down in 2005??
Are they not a more recent phenomenon, first one I recall was the GE that ended up with the Coalition government. Cameron wanted to increase his profile, Gordon Brown was resistant but did it as the Tory media got going at him.

An American phenomena going back to the Nixon debate.  Seen as essential for US audiences.  Never change any minds.

Are you serious? It sunk Nixon when he ran against Kennedy. Dukakis crashed and burned on a capital punishment question. Rick Perry's little "oops" moment knocked him out of the Repukelican primaries. Obama kept his cool against Senator "mood swing" McCain and wiped the floor with Mitt Romney. Nick Clegg came from nowhere in his first TV debate and stoked a Lib-Dem comeback that led to a coalition government.

TV debates are huge.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on April 19, 2017, 09:10:06 PM
Not definitive that Clegg's tv appearance helped his vote or the country had been fed that all problems were down to Labour and the country being bankrupt regardless of the bankers.  Voters moved to LD as next best to Labour but not moved to conservatives.  GB voters much different from those in US where it is a huge country and electorate impossible to reach by means other than TV.

Most voters tend to have fixed their views in the context of the state of the country or their views on the leaders.  By now most have been convinced by the media that Corbyn is a blunderer and May is a strong leader.  TV debate can only harm May and boost the others so she knows to stay away.

In NI, no evidence that the tv debates affected voting patterns but the audience figures did reflect interest and high turnout.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on April 19, 2017, 09:14:22 PM
Not definitive that Clegg's tv appearance helped his vote or the country had been fed that all problems were down to Labour and the country being bankrupt regardless of the bankers.  Voters moved to LD as next best to Labour but not moved to conservatives.  GB voters much different from those in US where it is a huge country and electorate impossible to reach by means other than TV.

Most voters tend to have fixed their views in the context of the state of the country or their views on the leaders.  By now most have been convinced by the media that Corbyn is a blunderer and May is a strong leader.  TV debate can only harm May and boost the others so she knows to stay away.

In NI, no evidence that the tv debates affected voting patterns but the audience figures did reflect interest and high turnout.
UK voters are pissed off. Real incomes are minus 15% vs 2008. So politics are volatile. May has not achieved anything
 Her image is more spin than substance. Maybe people will buy it.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Minder on April 19, 2017, 09:33:36 PM
Not definitive that Clegg's tv appearance helped his vote or the country had been fed that all problems were down to Labour and the country being bankrupt regardless of the bankers.  Voters moved to LD as next best to Labour but not moved to conservatives.  GB voters much different from those in US where it is a huge country and electorate impossible to reach by means other than TV.

Most voters tend to have fixed their views in the context of the state of the country or their views on the leaders.  By now most have been convinced by the media that Corbyn is a blunderer and May is a strong leader.  TV debate can only harm May and boost the others so she knows to stay away.

In NI, no evidence that the tv debates affected voting patterns but the audience figures did reflect interest and high turnout.
UK voters are pissed off. Real incomes are minus 15% vs 2008. So politics are volatile. May has not achieved anything
 Her image is more spin than substance. Maybe people will buy it.

We will soon see Seafoid, is unemployment not at lowest level since mid 70s?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on April 19, 2017, 09:39:53 PM
Not definitive that Clegg's tv appearance helped his vote or the country had been fed that all problems were down to Labour and the country being bankrupt regardless of the bankers.  Voters moved to LD as next best to Labour but not moved to conservatives.  GB voters much different from those in US where it is a huge country and electorate impossible to reach by means other than TV.

Most voters tend to have fixed their views in the context of the state of the country or their views on the leaders.  By now most have been convinced by the media that Corbyn is a blunderer and May is a strong leader.  TV debate can only harm May and boost the others so she knows to stay away.

In NI, no evidence that the tv debates affected voting patterns but the audience figures did reflect interest and high turnout.
UK voters are pissed off. Real incomes are minus 15% vs 2008. So politics are volatile. May has not achieved anything
 Her image is more spin than substance. Maybe people will buy it.

We will soon see Seafoid, is unemployment not at lowest level since mid 70s?
Payrises are not happening.  Unemployment is low but a lot of jobs are crap. The Tories underestimate the patience of the voters at their peril.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on April 19, 2017, 09:50:12 PM
According to the Telegraph.......

'Theresa May is likely to take part in a question and answer session in front a television audience before the general election after she was heavily criticised by her opponents for refusing to debate with them.'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/19/bbc-itv-collision-course-theresa-may-say-will-hold-televised/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/19/bbc-itv-collision-course-theresa-may-say-will-hold-televised/)
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Minder on April 19, 2017, 09:51:04 PM
Not definitive that Clegg's tv appearance helped his vote or the country had been fed that all problems were down to Labour and the country being bankrupt regardless of the bankers.  Voters moved to LD as next best to Labour but not moved to conservatives.  GB voters much different from those in US where it is a huge country and electorate impossible to reach by means other than TV.

Most voters tend to have fixed their views in the context of the state of the country or their views on the leaders.  By now most have been convinced by the media that Corbyn is a blunderer and May is a strong leader.  TV debate can only harm May and boost the others so she knows to stay away.

In NI, no evidence that the tv debates affected voting patterns but the audience figures did reflect interest and high turnout.
UK voters are pissed off. Real incomes are minus 15% vs 2008. So politics are volatile. May has not achieved anything
 Her image is more spin than substance. Maybe people will buy it.

We will soon see Seafoid, is unemployment not at lowest level since mid 70s?
Payrises are not happening.  Unemployment is low but a lot of jobs are crap. The Tories underestimate the patience of the voters at their peril.

Not everyone can be a doctor
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on April 19, 2017, 10:00:05 PM
It is not the conditions that are most important but the fear of the alternative.

For example Tories will point out that the conditions are due to Labour mismanagement of the economy and leaving the deficit.  labour has a leader who is incompetent, no experience of government and will further bankrupt the country.

Brexit is accepted by the English and they want a good deal, who will deliver it.

Media will rip Corbyn apart and McDonnell with him.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 19, 2017, 10:10:37 PM
Not definitive that Clegg's tv appearance helped his vote or the country had been fed that all problems were down to Labour and the country being bankrupt regardless of the bankers.  Voters moved to LD as next best to Labour but not moved to conservatives.  GB voters much different from those in US where it is a huge country and electorate impossible to reach by means other than TV.

Most voters tend to have fixed their views in the context of the state of the country or their views on the leaders.  By now most have been convinced by the media that Corbyn is a blunderer and May is a strong leader.  TV debate can only harm May and boost the others so she knows to stay away.

In NI, no evidence that the tv debates affected voting patterns but the audience figures did reflect interest and high turnout.
We're gonna have to agree to disagree here.

Quote
Cleggmania spreads across Britain (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/cleggmania-spreads-across-britain-1947687.html)
One sure-footed TV performance, and the Lib Dem leader has transformed the election campaign. Jane Merrick and Brian Brady tell the inside story of how he did it, and ask the key question: could it actually last?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: bennydorano on April 19, 2017, 10:25:35 PM
ITV the first to confirm televised debate.  Puts May in a difficult position now.

Didn't Blair turn them down in 2005??
Are they not a more recent phenomenon, first one I recall was the GE that ended up with the Coalition government. Cameron wanted to increase his profile, Gordon Brown was resistant but did it as the Tory media got going at him.

An American phenomena going back to the Nixon debate.  Seen as essential for US audiences.  Never change any minds.
I was referring to the UK.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owenmoresider on April 19, 2017, 10:33:28 PM
Not definitive that Clegg's tv appearance helped his vote or the country had been fed that all problems were down to Labour and the country being bankrupt regardless of the bankers.  Voters moved to LD as next best to Labour but not moved to conservatives.  GB voters much different from those in US where it is a huge country and electorate impossible to reach by means other than TV.

Most voters tend to have fixed their views in the context of the state of the country or their views on the leaders.  By now most have been convinced by the media that Corbyn is a blunderer and May is a strong leader.  TV debate can only harm May and boost the others so she knows to stay away.

In NI, no evidence that the tv debates affected voting patterns but the audience figures did reflect interest and high turnout.
We're gonna have to agree to disagree here.

Quote
Cleggmania spreads across Britain (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/cleggmania-spreads-across-britain-1947687.html)
One sure-footed TV performance, and the Lib Dem leader has transformed the election campaign. Jane Merrick and Brian Brady tell the inside story of how he did it, and ask the key question: could it actually last?
The net five seats that the Liberals lost in that election certainly suggests it didn't.

Think the importance of debates is rather overblown, a 2/3 way head-to-head maybe but the cluttered versions here last year and in Britain in 2015 don't tend to shed much light. And elections are rarely won in debates, but they can be lost. The 2011 Presidential election being a case in point. Conversely Noonan was regarded as having got the better of Bertie in 2002 but fat lot of good it did FG on election day.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 19, 2017, 11:19:00 PM
Not definitive that Clegg's tv appearance helped his vote or the country had been fed that all problems were down to Labour and the country being bankrupt regardless of the bankers.  Voters moved to LD as next best to Labour but not moved to conservatives.  GB voters much different from those in US where it is a huge country and electorate impossible to reach by means other than TV.

Most voters tend to have fixed their views in the context of the state of the country or their views on the leaders.  By now most have been convinced by the media that Corbyn is a blunderer and May is a strong leader.  TV debate can only harm May and boost the others so she knows to stay away.

In NI, no evidence that the tv debates affected voting patterns but the audience figures did reflect interest and high turnout.
UK voters are pissed off. Real incomes are minus 15% vs 2008. So politics are volatile. May has not achieved anything
 Her image is more spin than substance. Maybe people will buy it.

We will soon see Seafoid, is unemployment not at lowest level since mid 70s?
Payrises are not happening.  Unemployment is low but a lot of jobs are crap. The Tories underestimate the patience of the voters at their peril.

Not everyone can be a doctor

Seafoid knows nobody who's got a pay rise in the north !! It's all collapsing around us
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: armaghniac on April 20, 2017, 12:02:30 AM
Seafoid knows nobody who's got a pay rise in the north !! It's all collapsing around us

Where did he say that?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2017, 12:12:48 AM
Seafoid knows nobody who's got a pay rise in the north !! It's all collapsing around us

Where did he say that?

He said pay rises are not happening ? Cheerleader much?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: armaghniac on April 20, 2017, 12:36:58 AM
Seafoid knows nobody who's got a pay rise in the north !! It's all collapsing around us

Where did he say that?

He said pay rises are not happening ? Cheerleader much?

That might have been a simplification. I imagine he was referring to his previous point that pay rises, in general, were not keeping pace with inflation. Of course, some people have done fine either because of their job or because they had an element of promotion along the way.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Throw ball on April 20, 2017, 12:48:32 AM
It is not the conditions that are most important but the fear of the alternative.

For example Tories will point out that the conditions are due to Labour mismanagement of the economy and leaving the deficit.  labour has a leader who is incompetent, no experience of government and will further bankrupt the country.

Brexit is accepted by the English and they want a good deal, who will deliver it.

Media will rip Corbyn apart and McDonnell with him.

Although I agree with you on how things are portrayed I had an article passed on to me prior to the last general election. It seems that the amount borrowed by the UK during austerity in the Cameron conservative government was the same as the total borrowed during the Blair and Brown governments. Talk of cutting the deficit is in general crap. All that is happening is that the amount being borrowed is increasing year on year at a decreasing rate. If we ran our own budgets like that we would soon be bankrupt!
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on April 20, 2017, 02:47:30 AM
According to the Telegraph.......

'Theresa May is likely to take part in a question and answer session in front a television audience before the general election after she was heavily criticised by her opponents for refusing to debate with them.'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/19/bbc-itv-collision-course-theresa-may-say-will-hold-televised/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/19/bbc-itv-collision-course-theresa-may-say-will-hold-televised/)
Lynton Crosby is micro managing this. He can't afford to have the Brexit narrative destroyed by the Lib Dems.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2017, 07:44:15 AM
Seafoid knows nobody who's got a pay rise in the north !! It's all collapsing around us

Where did he say that?

He said pay rises are not happening ? Cheerleader much?

That might have been a simplification. I imagine he was referring to his previous point that pay rises, in general, were not keeping pace with inflation. Of course, some people have done fine either because of their job or because they had an element of promotion along the way.

I think you imagined wrong, like Seafoid did, pay rises have increased for some stayed the same for others, been like that long before brexit, 2008 was the crash....people adapt their spending based on their earnings, and it seems people are spending
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on April 20, 2017, 08:04:23 AM
Seafoid knows nobody who's got a pay rise in the north !! It's all collapsing around us

Where did he say that?

He said pay rises are not happening ? Cheerleader much?

That might have been a simplification. I imagine he was referring to his previous point that pay rises, in general, were not keeping pace with inflation. Of course, some people have done fine either because of their job or because they had an element of promotion along the way.

I think you imagined wrong, like Seafoid did, pay rises have increased for some stayed the same for others, been like that long before brexit, 2008 was the crash....people adapt their spending based on their earnings, and it seems people are spending
If earnings minus inflation are 15% lower than in  2008 there aren't enough payrises to support spending growth. Debt fills the gap.
Thatcher designed the system to favour the rich. Now it has reached perfection.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: armaghniac on April 20, 2017, 08:43:13 AM
Debt is keeping spending going, but how well is that going to work out?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on April 20, 2017, 09:24:46 AM
Debt is keeping spending going, but how well is that going to work out?
Debt either has to be paid off or rolled over.
Without those payrises I wouldn't be very optimistic

I was looking at Debenhams shares. They are down 50% over the last while. Debenhams shoppers are not doing very well.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2017, 09:55:17 AM
Debt is keeping spending going, but how well is that going to work out?
Debt either has to be paid off or rolled over.
Without those payrises I wouldn't be very optimistic

I was looking at Debenhams shares. They are down 50% over the last while. Debenhams shoppers are not doing very well.

Tesco is recovering, has returned profits since that big loss in 2015
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Franko on April 20, 2017, 09:56:23 AM
Not definitive that Clegg's tv appearance helped his vote or the country had been fed that all problems were down to Labour and the country being bankrupt regardless of the bankers.  Voters moved to LD as next best to Labour but not moved to conservatives.  GB voters much different from those in US where it is a huge country and electorate impossible to reach by means other than TV.

Most voters tend to have fixed their views in the context of the state of the country or their views on the leaders.  By now most have been convinced by the media that Corbyn is a blunderer and May is a strong leader.  TV debate can only harm May and boost the others so she knows to stay away.

In NI, no evidence that the tv debates affected voting patterns but the audience figures did reflect interest and high turnout.
UK voters are pissed off. Real incomes are minus 15% vs 2008. So politics are volatile. May has not achieved anything
 Her image is more spin than substance. Maybe people will buy it.

We will soon see Seafoid, is unemployment not at lowest level since mid 70s?
Payrises are not happening.  Unemployment is low but a lot of jobs are crap. The Tories underestimate the patience of the voters at their peril.

Not everyone can be a doctor

Straight out of the tory phrasebook.  No, but everyone can be a reasonably paid administrator/labourer/binman/home help.  The profits at the minute are being sent to the C-suite and shareholders and not distributed to the normal man (woman).
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Franko on April 20, 2017, 09:58:09 AM
Not definitive that Clegg's tv appearance helped his vote or the country had been fed that all problems were down to Labour and the country being bankrupt regardless of the bankers.  Voters moved to LD as next best to Labour but not moved to conservatives.  GB voters much different from those in US where it is a huge country and electorate impossible to reach by means other than TV.

Most voters tend to have fixed their views in the context of the state of the country or their views on the leaders.  By now most have been convinced by the media that Corbyn is a blunderer and May is a strong leader.  TV debate can only harm May and boost the others so she knows to stay away.

In NI, no evidence that the tv debates affected voting patterns but the audience figures did reflect interest and high turnout.
UK voters are pissed off. Real incomes are minus 15% vs 2008. So politics are volatile. May has not achieved anything
 Her image is more spin than substance. Maybe people will buy it.

We will soon see Seafoid, is unemployment not at lowest level since mid 70s?
Payrises are not happening.  Unemployment is low but a lot of jobs are crap. The Tories underestimate the patience of the voters at their peril.

Not everyone can be a doctor

Seafoid knows nobody who's got a pay rise in the north !! It's all collapsing around us

Grow up.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on April 20, 2017, 11:10:00 AM
Debt is keeping spending going, but how well is that going to work out?
Debt either has to be paid off or rolled over.
Without those payrises I wouldn't be very optimistic

I was looking at Debenhams shares. They are down 50% over the last while. Debenhams shoppers are not doing very well.

Tesco is recovering, has returned profits since that big loss in 2015
Do it over 3 years. It doesn't look great
http://m.lse.co.uk/markets/shareprice/charts.asp?share=TSCO

Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on April 20, 2017, 01:30:42 PM

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2017/apr/20/general-election-2017-corbyn-speech-greens-launch-politics-live

Corbyn says Labour has set out its Brexit policy. It wants

tariff-free access to the single market.

Walking away, and trading under WTO rules, would mean manufacturing in this country would be severely damaged.

Threatening to turn the UK into a tax haven “is not a sensible way of negotiating”, he says.

He says he has held talks with fellow European socialist parties.

He accepts the result of the referendum. But we still have to work with Europe, he says.

Corbyn refuses to rule out a second referendum on Brexit.
Q: [From the BBC’s Martha Kearney] You have outlined a number of policies recently. Do you worry that your policies are popular, but that Labour has become a tainted brand?

He says people in the audience are wearing Keir Hardie badges. He was vilified when he was first elected. Anyone who stands up to create a decent party gets vilified. But he will continue to stand up for decency and ordinary people.

This gets a huge round of applause. It is a very effective soundbite.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: north_antrim_hound on April 20, 2017, 02:05:34 PM
Seafoid knows nobody who's got a pay rise in the north !! It's all collapsing around us

Where did he say that?

He said pay rises are not happening ? Cheerleader much?

That might have been a simplification. I imagine he was referring to his previous point that pay rises, in general, were not keeping pace with inflation. Of course, some people have done fine either because of their job or because they had an element of promotion along the way.

I think you imagined wrong, like Seafoid did, pay rises have increased for some stayed the same for others, been like that long before brexit, 2008 was the crash....people adapt their spending based on their earnings, and it seems people are spending

Pay rises might be happening in the civil service but not much in the private sector
I haven't spoke to anyone who is self employed or runs a small business that is better off compared to 11 years ago
Farming is NI biggest industry and they are feeling the pinch and for once I beleave them
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on April 20, 2017, 02:21:36 PM
Seafoid knows nobody who's got a pay rise in the north !! It's all collapsing around us

Where did he say that?

He said pay rises are not happening ? Cheerleader much?
At the level.of the UK economy they basically are not. The economy isn't working for people if the overall level of payrises is lower than inflation. Big deal if 2 or 3 examples got something. Companies are holding back on payrises to pay bonuses and dividends.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2017, 02:23:01 PM
Seafoid knows nobody who's got a pay rise in the north !! It's all collapsing around us

Where did he say that?

He said pay rises are not happening ? Cheerleader much?

That might have been a simplification. I imagine he was referring to his previous point that pay rises, in general, were not keeping pace with inflation. Of course, some people have done fine either because of their job or because they had an element of promotion along the way.

I think you imagined wrong, like Seafoid did, pay rises have increased for some stayed the same for others, been like that long before brexit, 2008 was the crash....people adapt their spending based on their earnings, and it seems people are spending

Pay rises might be happening in the civil service but not much in the private sector
I haven't spoke to anyone who is self employed or runs a small business that is better off compared to 11 years ago
Farming is NI biggest industry and they are feeling the pinch and for once I beleave them

Labour costs go up when material costs go up, once fuel goes up also, then labour costs will go up, I'm getting work done at the house and its not cheap, and that me shopping around...

nah, they may not be better off but not worse off, we are still feeling the effects of 2008, not brexit, yet...Building work has increased and now we have a shortage of decent tradesmen out there to do the work due to a shift in training needs because of 2008 when the building trades took a huge hit...

Waiting on workmen to come and do work is longer than normal, again thats down to not enough apprentices in those trades over the last 9 years..

Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2017, 02:24:48 PM
Debt is keeping spending going, but how well is that going to work out?
Debt either has to be paid off or rolled over.
Without those payrises I wouldn't be very optimistic

I was looking at Debenhams shares. They are down 50% over the last while. Debenhams shoppers are not doing very well.

Tesco is recovering, has returned profits since that big loss in 2015
Do it over 3 years. It doesn't look great
http://m.lse.co.uk/markets/shareprice/charts.asp?share=TSCO

I said its improved since 2015, but I'd say over the past 10/15 years Tesco have done alright
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2017, 02:34:09 PM
Seafoid knows nobody who's got a pay rise in the north !! It's all collapsing around us

Where did he say that?

He said pay rises are not happening ? Cheerleader much?
At the level.of the UK economy they basically are not. The economy isn't working for people if the overall level of payrises is lower than inflation. Big deal if 2 or 3 examples got something. Companies are holding back on payrises to pay bonuses and dividends.

The economy hasnt been great since 2008, still in a recession of sorts
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on April 20, 2017, 02:48:37 PM
Seafoid knows nobody who's got a pay rise in the north !! It's all collapsing around us

Where did he say that?

He said pay rises are not happening ? Cheerleader much?
At the level.of the UK economy they basically are not. The economy isn't working for people if the overall level of payrises is lower than inflation. Big deal if 2 or 3 examples got something. Companies are holding back on payrises to pay bonuses and dividends.

The economy hasnt been great since 2008, still in a recession of sorts
For most people.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 20, 2017, 06:13:06 PM
still in a recession of sorts

Huh?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Dougal Maguire on April 20, 2017, 06:39:20 PM
Seafoid knows nobody who's got a pay rise in the north !! It's all collapsing around us

Where did he say that?

He said pay rises are not happening ? Cheerleader much?

That might have been a simplification. I imagine he was referring to his previous point that pay rises, in general, were not keeping pace with inflation. Of course, some people have done fine either because of their job or because they had an element of promotion along the way.

I think you imagined wrong, like Seafoid did, pay rises have increased for some stayed the same for others, been like that long before brexit, 2008 was the crash....people adapt their spending based on their earnings, and it seems people are spending
More uninformed nonsense. Ant public servant on the top of their pay scale will have seen their take home pay fall each year for the last 3 or 4 years.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2017, 07:04:10 PM
Seafoid knows nobody who's got a pay rise in the north !! It's all collapsing around us

Where did he say that?

He said pay rises are not happening ? Cheerleader much?

That might have been a simplification. I imagine he was referring to his previous point that pay rises, in general, were not keeping pace with inflation. Of course, some people have done fine either because of their job or because they had an element of promotion along the way.

I think you imagined wrong, like Seafoid did, pay rises have increased for some stayed the same for others, been like that long before brexit, 2008 was the crash....people adapt their spending based on their earnings, and it seems people are spending
More uninformed nonsense. Ant public servant on the top of their pay scale will have seen their take home pay fall each year for the last 3 or 4 years.

Wife works public sector, wages haven't dropped
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: imtommygunn on April 20, 2017, 07:05:51 PM
Vs inflation?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2017, 07:06:20 PM
Vs inflation?

That wasn't the question
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Dougal Maguire on April 20, 2017, 07:06:59 PM
Read what I wrote! I said any public servant on the top of their pay scale has seen their take home pay reduced
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2017, 07:08:30 PM
Read what I wrote! I said any public servant on the top of their pay scale has seen their take home pay reduced

She's on the top of her pay scale and it's not drop, now read that back to yourself
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Dougal Maguire on April 20, 2017, 07:10:08 PM
My wife's a teacher and I'm a civil public servant. We take home less money in our pay cheques now than we did 3 years ago. Fact
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2017, 07:14:40 PM
My wife's a teacher and I'm a civil public servant. We take home less money in our pay cheques now than we did 3 years ago. Fact

My wife's a teacher top of her pay scale and took on an extra point earning more now and I changed jobs from teaching, and earning over double on my previous job which paid same as wife! Private sector would be the way to go to realistically earn a better wage...

Could all fall down round me and might have to go back to teaching..
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Dougal Maguire on April 20, 2017, 07:17:36 PM
You're not comparing like with like. Had your wife not got the extra point she'd have seen her pay go down. As regards you working in the private sector, everyone knows there's a shortage of workers in your discipline so naturally the money's going to be better. Supply and demand
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2017, 07:19:02 PM
You're not comparing like with like. Had your wife not got the extra point she'd have seen her pay go down.

Nope just asked her again and it's not went down, no pay rise but the wages haven't dropped!
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Tony Baloney on April 20, 2017, 07:29:30 PM
You're not comparing like with like. Had your wife not got the extra point she'd have seen her pay go down.

Nope just asked her again and it's not went down, no pay rise but the wages haven't dropped!
Inflation.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: imtommygunn on April 20, 2017, 07:32:07 PM
You're not comparing like with like. Had your wife not got the extra point she'd have seen her pay go down.

Nope just asked her again and it's not went down, no pay rise but the wages haven't dropped!

It is an effective pay decrease.

You completely changing career path for a higher paying one may mask that for you but it is an effective pay decrease and a lot of households would struggle on the back of it.

Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2017, 07:47:15 PM
I didn't bring inflation into it as that wasn't asked, so the pay drop didn't happen but clearly with inflation yes then that would be the case...

Either way we have tighten, like most household the purse strings based on earnings, public sector jobs have far greater benefits than private.. great pensions and holidays sick schemes to help with hangovers  ;)

Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: imtommygunn on April 20, 2017, 09:36:52 PM
Not really with the absence of final salary pensions though. Health care, dental care, bonus schemes, life insurance, insurance on prolonged sick absences etc. You can easily outweigh the public sector benefits in the right private job. Key difference security in my view which isn't what it was.

A lot of private places have the "sick" issue too...
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on April 20, 2017, 11:57:42 PM
I didn't bring inflation into it as that wasn't asked, so the pay drop didn't happen but clearly with inflation yes then that would be the case...

Either way we have tighten, like most household the purse strings based on earnings, public sector jobs have far greater benefits than private.. great pensions and holidays sick schemes to help with hangovers  ;)

Any teacher who has not been in receipt of a pay increase via incremental progression or via an additional teaching allowance for other responsibilities has experienced the following decrease in pay and all teachers are affected by pension changes:

1. A pay freeze during 3/5 out of the last 5 years and then only a 1% pay increase against official inflation at a higher rate so a considerable effective pay decrease in real terms.

2. An increase in National Insurance payments since April 2016 as a 'contracted in' charge replaced the old 'contracted out' rate to take account of the serious decrease in future pension payments.

3. An increase in the percentage of pay taken for pension contributions which increases as your salary increases.  % of pay taken for pension payments has increased from 6% to almost 7% for lower earners up to nearly 12% of gross salary payment for the highest paid teachers.

4. An increase in the National Pension Age to 67 from 60 for the vast majority of teachers which means that they cannot access their pensions without an actuarial reduction of 5% per year for every year it is taken below 67.

5. A removal from the final salary pension scheme and transfer to the average salary scheme which greatly reduces the pension available even when supplemented by the state pension as available by contracted in National Insurance payments. affects all teacher who were younger than 50 on 1st April 2012.

6. No tax free lump sum along with the pension at retirement unless you commute a significant part of the annual pension.

So, every teacher has had a significant actual pay reduction, a significant real pay reduction and a major erosion of their expected pension payments when they can retire as 67 year olds, although that will increase over the next 20 years.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on April 21, 2017, 12:10:38 AM
Listen to this spokesperson for Corbyn, Dawn Butler, to understand why Corbyn and his inexperienced shadow cabinet in the Labour party are so unfit for government that the Conservatives and the right wing media will tr**p all over them.

Later in the day Butler had to apologise to Costa Coffee for wrongly accusing them of not paying taxes in the UK.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p050mzc6 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p050mzc6)
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2017, 12:15:29 AM
I didn't bring inflation into it as that wasn't asked, so the pay drop didn't happen but clearly with inflation yes then that would be the case...

Either way we have tighten, like most household the purse strings based on earnings, public sector jobs have far greater benefits than private.. great pensions and holidays sick schemes to help with hangovers  ;)

Any teacher who has not been in receipt of a pay increase via incremental progression or via an additional teaching allowance for other responsibilities has experienced the following:

1. A pay freeze during three out of the last five years and then only a 1% pay increase against official inflation at a higher rate so a considerable effective pay decrease in real terms.

2. An increase in National Insurance payments since April 2016 as a contracted in charge replaced the old contracted out rate to take account of the serious decrease in future pension payments.

3. An increase in the percentage of pay taken for pension contributions which increases as your salary increases.  % of pay taken for pension payments has increased from 6% to almost 7% for lower earners up to nearly 12% of gross salary payment for the highest paid teachers.

4. An increase in the National Pension Age to 67 from 60 for the vast majority of teachers which means that they cannot access their pensions without an actuarial reduction of 5% per year for every year below 67.

5. A removal from the final salary pension scheme and transfer to the average salary scheme which greatly reduces the pension available even when supplemented by the state pension as available by contracted in National Insurance payments.

6. No tax free lump sum along with the pension at retirement unless you commute a significant part of the annual pension.

So, every teacher has had a significant actual pay reduction, a significant real pay reduction  and a major erosion of their expected pension payments when they can retire as 67 year olds, although that will increase over the next 20 years.

Everyone's tax or insurance has changed but you basic pay salary had not been deducted, paying more taxes or more into your pension has not changed your annual wage just your take home pay.

I'm paying more tax and my retirement won't be till I'm 67 so why would it be any different for the public sector and private sector? My pension will be a state pension plus the various jobs I've been in, which are small pensions I paid into are frozen currently.. 10 years in one company 3 in another 2 in another and one I'm currently on which is very basic..

teachers will have a far better pension than anyone in the private sector will ever have so overall they aren't doing too bad
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on April 21, 2017, 12:30:20 AM
The point that Dougal Maguire was making was that the amount of money taken home each month has been reduced or eroded both in real terms and actual terms and I have shown you how it has been reduced due to increased NIC and pension payments for teachers.

Teachers no longer have the gilt edged pensions of those who left the profession aged 50 or more after 2012.  The average salary scheme will be worth even less than the reduction faced by those who were move from the 1/80 scheme with a lump sum to 1/60 scheme with no lump sum when they became teachers from 2007 onwards.  The average salary scheme will not pay an amount that will be considered a living wage by the time these teachers begin to access it.  It will have to be supplemented by the state pension scheme when the teacher reaches the NPA to give a meagre payment.  Also the pay freezes and 1% pay rises experienced to date and going into the future will further reduce the average salary pensions.

Anyone who is not a superannuated public sector worker can now access their pension pot and reject the corrupt but guaranteed annuity scheme.  They can then manage their own pension pot from age 55.  Teachers and other public sector workers are now tied into average salary schemes which depend on other similar workers paying in ever increasing amounts to pay the pensions of those retired ahead of them and living ever longer.  No pension pots to access.

Use this app to see how little your wife will get when she retires:

http://apps.education-ni.gov.uk/appPenCalc/pencalc.aspx (http://apps.education-ni.gov.uk/appPenCalc/pencalc.aspx)
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Dougal Maguire on April 21, 2017, 12:35:39 AM
Owen, I wish you luck trying to get that message home to him. He's playing with semantics to mask the fact that yet again he's speaking from the hip with no evidence to support what he's saying
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Tony Baloney on April 21, 2017, 12:55:34 AM
Not bad for working 195 days a year  ;D
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on April 21, 2017, 01:24:53 AM
Not bad for working 195 days a year  ;D

And only 1265 hours.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on April 21, 2017, 06:08:47 AM
Listen to this spokesperson for Corbyn, Dawn Butler, to understand why Corbyn and his inexperienced shadow cabinet in the Labour party are so unfit for government that the Conservatives and the right wing media will tr**p all over them.

Later in the day Butler had to apologise to Costa Coffee for wrongly accusing them of not paying taxes in the UK.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p050mzc6 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p050mzc6)
The election will depend on whether or not Labour can convince voters of what is actually happening. . It is psychological. The cupboard is bare and the Tories are saying it is great.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: yellowcard on April 21, 2017, 07:47:41 AM
Too many West Wing watchers talking about empty chair debates!

May would absolutely steamroll through Corbyn in a debate anyway. Labour should be delighted to get away from the prospect.

Have you watched both of them in debates or how exactly could you draw that conclusion?

Theresa May struggles to think on her feet when veering away from pre rehearsed answers. She is a poor debater and wants to avoid such a contest for that reason. I can however see her agreeing to some watered down version of a debate purely to avoid the cowardly accusations being fired at her by opponents.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2017, 07:59:45 AM
Not bad for working 195 days a year  ;D

And only 1265 hours.

So with over 20 years service she's doing alright, obviously had she been older or longer in service then she be better off but she's still got 15 plus years to work, not going to be millionaires but that's the public sector, teaching is a vocation, you're not doing it for the money  ;D
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: johnneycool on April 21, 2017, 08:29:50 AM
Too many West Wing watchers talking about empty chair debates!

May would absolutely steamroll through Corbyn in a debate anyway. Labour should be delighted to get away from the prospect.

Have you watched both of them in debates or how exactly could you draw that conclusion?

Theresa May struggles to think on her feet when veering away from pre rehearsed answers. She is a poor debater and wants to avoid such a contest for that reason. I can however see her agreeing to some watered down version of a debate purely to avoid the cowardly accusations being fired at her by opponents.

Corbyn would probably get the better of her alright as May comes across as very wooden and intransigent, but Mary Doll would wipe the floor with all off them, she's a serious operator that Sturgeon one.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Minder on April 21, 2017, 08:58:20 AM
Have any of you seen Corbyn on PMQs every week ????
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on April 21, 2017, 09:09:07 AM
The Brexit spin is very flimsy . It is emotional rather than rational and the Tories don't want May to flop in front of the cameras.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: gallsman on April 21, 2017, 10:00:28 AM
Have any of you seen Corbyn on PMQs every week ????

Precisely - he's a disaster when given a platform.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: gallsman on April 21, 2017, 10:05:17 AM
Obama kept his cool against Senator "mood swing" McCain and wiped the floor with Mitt Romney.

Obama lost a debate to Romney (the first I think). Badly.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on April 21, 2017, 10:08:18 AM
Have any of you seen Corbyn on PMQs every week ????

Precisely - he's a disaster when given a platform.

Actually, on watching most weeks, both of them are very poor. They 'sloganise' rather than debate often saying and replying on separate lines fed to them beforehand and end up trading insults.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: gallsman on April 21, 2017, 10:14:53 AM
Moving away from May and Corbyn, I see Douglas Carswell, who had already left UKIP, won't be running again. Farage has said he won't run (although I wouldn't put it past him to do yet another 180) but it begs the question now more than ever, why does the party continue to exist?! Will this finally be the end of it?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on April 21, 2017, 10:31:16 AM
Moving away from May and Corbyn, I see Douglas Carswell, who had already left UKIP, won't be running again. Farage has said he won't run (although I wouldn't put it past him to do yet another 180) but it begs the question now more than ever, why does the party continue to exist?! Will this finally be the end of it?

Got over 4 million votes in 2015 but no return due to distribution across GB due to no stronghold as required by FPTP elections. They need PR, i.e. the significant number of MEPs.

Infighting and useless leadership will continue to ensure their decline but the Little Englanders and that mentality will continue to prevail throughout England so they will never go away.  Note how Tories will play Brexit card to pull most onboard.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: gallsman on April 21, 2017, 10:37:41 AM
Those 4 million votes were prior to Brexit becoming government policy though. I wonder how they'll get on this time - Nutall is an absolute buffon
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on April 21, 2017, 10:38:59 AM
UKIP had 2 policies.  Leave and grammar schools. The Tories adopted both which was amazing. The party will be around until the end of the Brexit process probably.

The KIP in UKIP is very appropriate.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: DuffleKing on April 21, 2017, 10:49:02 AM
A lot of people here obviously have not actually paid any attention to the personal performances of either corbyn or may. May is horrific unless reading an auto cue or prepared mantra. Corbyn is no more than a decent off the cuff orator but he is light years ahead of may.

PMQs are an embarrassment. Corbyn consistently catches may out and asks questions she cannot answer. The fact that she reverts to scripted sound bites and never answers questions (literally) when this happens seems to entirely satisfy political commentary and journalism.

There is a very definite state of affairs here that the notion that Corbyn and a political approach that priorities societal values is unpalatable to the masses or unelectable. I firmly believe the masses have consumed this narrative while without analysis as it doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

The question is whether people will follow the media mantra at the polling stations as they have done 99% of the time or if they vote their minds as with Brexit and as Americans did with Trump. In both of those instances the media direction was way off and accompanying polls laughably out.

It never ceases to amaze me how working class brits can vote for Tory workhouse masters en masse when they are scared (usually by a succinct media campaign). The tories are parasites with middle and executive class interests at heart. This incarnation is particularly unscrupulous and I expect ruthless when the time comes. Their policy u turns since May took over have been staggering and have gone largely unquestioned. Their best people are not even in the cabinet. Ffs look at the foreign office, treasury, home office, brexit dept. It's laughable. May herself was a horrendous Home Secretary, who many believe was stayed from execution from government by the brexit result.

British politics and particularly British political journalism is a shambles.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on April 21, 2017, 11:34:32 AM
A lot of people here obviously have not actually paid any attention to the personal performances of either corbyn or may. May is horrific unless reading an auto cue or prepared mantra. Corbyn is no more than a decent off the cuff orator but he is light years ahead of may.

PMQs are an embarrassment. Corbyn consistently catches may out and asks questions she cannot answer. The fact that she reverts to scripted sound bites and never answers questions (literally) when this happens seems to entirely satisfy political commentary and journalism.


+1  see above, I watch PMQs most weeks and May has no spontaneity and unable to respond without insult or slogan.


It never ceases to amaze me how working class brits can vote for Tory workhouse masters en masse when they are scared (usually by a succinct media campaign). The tories are parasites with middle and executive class interests at heart. This incarnation is particularly unscrupulous and I expect ruthless when the time comes. Their policy u turns since May took over have been staggering and have gone largely unquestioned. Their best people are not even in the cabinet. Ffs look at the foreign office, treasury, home office, brexit dept. It's laughable. May herself was a horrendous Home Secretary, who many believe was stayed from execution from government by the brexit result.

British politics and particularly British political journalism is a shambles.

I believe that many of the English and the Welsh are serf-like.  Many of them prefer to elect Tories almost by default despite the suffering inflicted on the general population earning less than as much as £60-70K per household per annum by the austerity measures put in place by Cameron and Osborne since 2010.  They prefer to be governed by Tories with no interest in their welfare and conditions than allow Corbyn who they consider to be bereft of any ability to run the country. 

Corbyn has no hope of gaining any seats because he has to convince previous Conservative voters to change to Labour and they show no interest in doing so given his offer because in their serf-like mentality they prefer to doff the cap to the ruling Tory class because they want strong government.

The media has largely exposed Corbyn as a clown and those around him share his limited abilities, e.g. Dawn Butler on R4 and now the shadow Education minister on SKY news.

Labour needs the like of Yvette Cooper to take on destroy the Tories as she regularly does with T May in PMQs.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on April 21, 2017, 12:01:14 PM
Corbyn has to convince the floating voters in the middle that Labour will be better for them. The Tory economic record is atrocious.  This is why May's pitch is emotional.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Minder on April 21, 2017, 12:12:49 PM
Corbyn has to convince the floating voters in the middle that Labour will be better for them. The Tory economic record is atrocious.  This is why May's pitch is emotional.

Corbyn needs to convince quite a lot of Labour voters I would say too, which is why they haven't a hope.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AQMP on April 21, 2017, 12:22:04 PM
Obama kept his cool against Senator "mood swing" McCain and wiped the floor with Mitt Romney.

Obama lost a debate to Romney (the first I think). Badly.

I actually thought that Corbyn's speech yesterday was quite  good.  Most of the media have already decided that the narrative is "Corbyn is a disaster" and "May heading for landslide".
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on April 21, 2017, 12:22:12 PM
Corbyn has to convince the floating voters in the middle that Labour will be better for them. The Tory economic record is atrocious.  This is why May's pitch is emotional.

Corbyn needs to convince quite a lot of Labour voters I would say too, which is why they haven't a hope.
They have a good few safe seats.
I think the Tories are vulnerable on the economy.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: johnneycool on April 21, 2017, 12:38:58 PM
Corbyn has to convince the floating voters in the middle that Labour will be better for them. The Tory economic record is atrocious.  This is why May's pitch is emotional.

Corbyn needs to convince quite a lot of Labour voters I would say too, which is why they haven't a hope.

Corbyn needs to convince his Labour parliamentary colleagues but he seems to be fine with grass roots labour members who keep voting him in.
Whether that grass routes support translates to the general public is another matter and yes the Media have already decided he's a dead duck especially the BBC's Laura Kuenssberg.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: yellowcard on April 21, 2017, 12:58:09 PM
A lot of people here obviously have not actually paid any attention to the personal performances of either corbyn or may. May is horrific unless reading an auto cue or prepared mantra. Corbyn is no more than a decent off the cuff orator but he is light years ahead of may.

PMQs are an embarrassment. Corbyn consistently catches may out and asks questions she cannot answer. The fact that she reverts to scripted sound bites and never answers questions (literally) when this happens seems to entirely satisfy political commentary and journalism.

There is a very definite state of affairs here that the notion that Corbyn and a political approach that priorities societal values is unpalatable to the masses or unelectable. I firmly believe the masses have consumed this narrative while without analysis as it doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

The question is whether people will follow the media mantra at the polling stations as they have done 99% of the time or if they vote their minds as with Brexit and as Americans did with Trump. In both of those instances the media direction was way off and accompanying polls laughably out.

It never ceases to amaze me how working class brits can vote for Tory workhouse masters en masse when they are scared (usually by a succinct media campaign). The tories are parasites with middle and executive class interests at heart. This incarnation is particularly unscrupulous and I expect ruthless when the time comes. Their policy u turns since May took over have been staggering and have gone largely unquestioned. Their best people are not even in the cabinet. Ffs look at the foreign office, treasury, home office, brexit dept. It's laughable. May herself was a horrendous Home Secretary, who many believe was stayed from execution from government by the brexit result.

British politics and particularly British political journalism is a shambles.

Nail on head.

The mainstream English media will try and control the narrative of the election and the power of Newscorps and Murdoch media outlets cannot be underestimated in the UK. Their own self interests are best served with the Tories in charge and their editorial content reflects this fact. They have already tried to create an image of May as a strong leader in the mould of Thatcher when in reality the only commonality is the fact that she is a woman. The Tories and May in particular have flip flopped in the manner of someone who is making it up as they go along. 
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AQMP on April 21, 2017, 01:20:02 PM
Corbyn has to convince the floating voters in the middle that Labour will be better for them. The Tory economic record is atrocious.  This is why May's pitch is emotional.

Corbyn needs to convince quite a lot of Labour voters I would say too, which is why they haven't a hope.

Corbyn needs to convince his Labour parliamentary colleagues but he seems to be fine with grass roots labour members who keep voting him in.
Whether that grass routes support translates to the general public is another matter and yes the Media have already decided he's a dead duck especially the BBC's Laura Kuenssberg.

Yes, Kuenssberg is very bad at keeping her bias hidden.  I used to be a fan of BBC's Newsnight.  However I've been struck the past two nights by the marked difference in tone and style of Emily Maitlis' interviews with Ruth Davidson of the Scottish Tories and Labour MP Andrew Gwynne.  There was also a profile of Theresa May that was basically a Party Political Broadcast. 
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2017, 01:45:08 PM
So is it the case that when you join a certain media organisation or all being the case it seems lately, that you have to toe the line in terms of your views and questioning of people? Seems a disater area if you are wanting to become a serious journalist only to be told to read the autocue and foolw these lines of thought......

Which Journo's have bucked the trend on these matters? Jon Snow?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Tony Baloney on April 21, 2017, 01:49:28 PM
Corbyn has to convince the floating voters in the middle that Labour will be better for them. The Tory economic record is atrocious.  This is why May's pitch is emotional.

Corbyn needs to convince quite a lot of Labour voters I would say too, which is why they haven't a hope.

Corbyn needs to convince his Labour parliamentary colleagues but he seems to be fine with grass roots labour members who keep voting him in.
Whether that grass routes support translates to the general public is another matter and yes the Media have already decided he's a dead duck especially the BBC's Laura Kuenssberg.
Corbyn received c. 250k votes in the leadership election and Labour received c. 9 million votes in the last GE so there is a gulf between paid up members, many of whom will be hardline "Reds" and the general Labour voting public. Being a nice man with solid principles just isn't enough.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Avondhu star on April 21, 2017, 01:54:44 PM
So is it the case that when you join a certain media organisation or all being the case it seems lately, that you have to toe the line in terms of your views and questioning of people? Seems a disater area if you are wanting to become a serious journalist only to be told to read the autocue and foolw these lines of thought......

Which Journo's have bucked the trend on these matters? Jon Snow?
I wouldn't mind seeing Miriam O Callaghan buck with the legs she showed last night on Prime Time
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2017, 01:58:55 PM
So is it the case that when you join a certain media organisation or all being the case it seems lately, that you have to toe the line in terms of your views and questioning of people? Seems a disater area if you are wanting to become a serious journalist only to be told to read the autocue and foolw these lines of thought......

Which Journo's have bucked the trend on these matters? Jon Snow?
I wouldn't mind seeing Miriam O Callaghan buck with the legs she showed last night on Prime Time

rule 1 please
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: johnneycool on April 21, 2017, 02:00:16 PM
So is it the case that when you join a certain media organisation or all being the case it seems lately, that you have to toe the line in terms of your views and questioning of people? Seems a disater area if you are wanting to become a serious journalist only to be told to read the autocue and foolw these lines of thought......

Which Journo's have bucked the trend on these matters? Jon Snow?
I wouldn't mind seeing Miriam O Callaghan buck with the legs she showed last night on Prime Time

rule 1 please

She's old enough to be your Ma Milltown!!!!
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2017, 02:00:58 PM
So is it the case that when you join a certain media organisation or all being the case it seems lately, that you have to toe the line in terms of your views and questioning of people? Seems a disater area if you are wanting to become a serious journalist only to be told to read the autocue and foolw these lines of thought......

Which Journo's have bucked the trend on these matters? Jon Snow?
I wouldn't mind seeing Miriam O Callaghan buck with the legs she showed last night on Prime Time

rule 1 please

She's old enough to be your Ma Milltown!!!!

Reaching for sick bucket
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: DuffleKing on April 21, 2017, 02:25:47 PM
Corbyn has to convince the floating voters in the middle that Labour will be better for them. The Tory economic record is atrocious.  This is why May's pitch is emotional.

Corbyn needs to convince quite a lot of Labour voters I would say too, which is why they haven't a hope.

Corbyn needs to convince his Labour parliamentary colleagues but he seems to be fine with grass roots labour members who keep voting him in.
Whether that grass routes support translates to the general public is another matter and yes the Media have already decided he's a dead duck especially the BBC's Laura Kuenssberg.
Corbyn received c. 250k votes in the leadership election and Labour received c. 9 million votes in the last GE so there is a gulf between paid up members, many of whom will be hardline "Reds" and the general Labour voting public. Being a nice man with solid principles just isn't enough.

It's a start and it's more than Mr Burns in a dress has going for her
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Hardy on April 21, 2017, 03:32:09 PM
So is it the case that when you join a certain media organisation or all being the case it seems lately, that you have to toe the line in terms of your views and questioning of people? Seems a disater area if you are wanting to become a serious journalist only to be told to read the autocue and foolw these lines of thought......

Which Journo's have bucked the trend on these matters? Jon Snow?
I wouldn't mind seeing Miriam O Callaghan buck with the legs she showed last night on Prime Time

rule 1 please

She's old enough to be your Ma Milltown!!!!

She has so many kids, she could be.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on April 21, 2017, 05:26:44 PM

   https://www.ft.com/content/d8bbdb92-2616-11e7-8691-d5f7e0cd0a16

   FT

Tory officials say that Sir Lynton and his campaign colleagues discussed on Thursday a blog by Nate Silver, the US elections statistician, who said that UK polls were “terrible” and that the UK snap election was “riskier than it seems”.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on April 22, 2017, 04:35:54 AM
So is it the case that when you join a certain media organisation or all being the case it seems lately, that you have to toe the line in terms of your views and questioning of people? Seems a disater area if you are wanting to become a serious journalist only to be told to read the autocue and foolw these lines of thought......

Which Journo's have bucked the trend on these matters? Jon Snow?
I wouldn't mind seeing Miriam O Callaghan buck with the legs
she showed last night on Prime Time

Classy as usual.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Minder on April 22, 2017, 09:24:58 PM
Tories heading for a landslide according to the latest poll
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: armaghniac on April 22, 2017, 11:40:54 PM
This poll doesn't seem quite as one sided
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4436044/Tory-lead-slashed-half-tax-U-turn.html
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on April 23, 2017, 08:34:14 AM
This poll doesn't seem quite as one sided
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4436044/Tory-lead-slashed-half-tax-U-turn.html
They have to raise taxes. Lower taxes and smaller Government are Tory articles of faith. Most Tory voters have no idea how awful the numbers are.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: bennydorano on April 23, 2017, 08:43:24 AM
I see their methodology being questioned for mixing data of two separate polls, wouldn't be like the Daily Mail to push a Rothermere agenda (anti tax rise) / try and fire a shot across May's bow in case she gets too uppity.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Minder on April 23, 2017, 10:30:31 AM
This poll doesn't seem quite as one sided
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4436044/Tory-lead-slashed-half-tax-U-turn.html
They have to raise taxes. Lower taxes and smaller Government are Tory articles of faith. Most Tory voters have no idea how awful the numbers are.

I don't think anyone knows Seafoid, except you
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on April 23, 2017, 11:01:11 AM
This poll doesn't seem quite as one sided
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4436044/Tory-lead-slashed-half-tax-U-turn.html

You can be sure someone will be required to down play the extent of the Conservative lead to prevent complacency and nobody better to do it than the Daily Mail.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: armaghniac on April 23, 2017, 11:07:22 AM
I'd say the Daily Mail playing down the lead is very likely.

I don't think anyone knows Seafoid, except you

in fairness, the UK Institute for Fiscal Studies would have done some research and they agree with Seafoid.
https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/9141
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Hardy on May 04, 2017, 09:24:57 PM
Betfair
Most seats
Tories 1/11
Lab. 14.5/1
Lib. 40/1
Tory majority 1/5
No majority 5.2/1


Two weeks on the Tories are consolidating strongly:
Most seats
 Tories 1/20
 Lab. 19/1
 Lib. 150/1
 Tory majority 1/11
No majority 13.5/1

Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: stew on May 04, 2017, 11:09:17 PM
Betfair
Most seats
Tories 1/11
Lab. 14.5/1
Lib. 40/1
Tory majority 1/5
No majority 5.2/1


Two weeks on the Tories are consolidating strongly:
Most seats
 Tories 1/20
 Lab. 19/1
 Lib. 150/1
 Tory majority 1/11
No majority 13.5/1
The tories are vile b**tards!

labour is unfit to govern but I would vote for them if I lived in England, the Tories are vile b**tards, did I mention the tories are vile b**tards.


Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 04, 2017, 11:18:06 PM
Betfair
Most seats
Tories 1/11
Lab. 14.5/1
Lib. 40/1
Tory majority 1/5
No majority 5.2/1


Two weeks on the Tories are consolidating strongly:
Most seats
 Tories 1/20
 Lab. 19/1
 Lib. 150/1
 Tory majority 1/11
No majority 13.5/1
The tories are vile b**tards!

labour is unfit to govern but I would vote for them if I lived in England, the Tories are vile b**tards, did I mention the tories are vile b**tards.

How do the Tories differ from the Republican party?

How could you support the liberal Labour party?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: armaghniac on May 04, 2017, 11:34:38 PM
How do the Tories differ from the Republican party?

They are monarchists.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 04, 2017, 11:46:20 PM
How do the Tories differ from the Republican party?

They are monarchists.

I was thinking more in terms of the similarity of their policies such as their vote tonight to remove ordinary working Americans from their healthcare by repealing Obamacare and making healthcare much more expensive and beyond most citizens. Compare this to the treatment of the NHS under the tories since 2010.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 05, 2017, 08:50:14 AM
The Tories and the Republicans sell dreams to working class voters and then shaft them
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: NAG1 on May 05, 2017, 08:53:07 AM
Is this enough for the Labour Party to oust Corbyn?
If not, will being wiped out at the GE be enough?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 05, 2017, 09:02:57 AM
A sign of things to come.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 05, 2017, 09:04:54 AM
Is this enough for the Labour Party to oust Corbyn?
If not, will being wiped out at the GE be enough?

John McDonnell is already preparing the ground by setting up Corbyn as the messenger so that he can play failure in the polls to the membership that the problem was the messenger and not the message.  So, wait until the autumn conference, change the rule on the percentage or number of MPs needed to be nominated for the leadership from the current 25 to about half.  This will allow a suitable left supported candidate to be nominated in the next race when Corbyn will stand down in late autumn.

Until then the media will be blamed and the competence issue will not be mentioned with the race to the bottom, Labour incompetence making Tory incompetence in handling Brexit disappear.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: ashman on May 05, 2017, 09:12:19 AM
The Tories and the Republicans sell dreams to working class voters and then shaft them

So no real difference with Dems and Labour then.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 05, 2017, 09:20:01 AM
The Tories and the Republicans sell dreams to working class voters and then shaft them

So no real difference with Dems and Labour then.
there wasn't a huge difference between New Labour and the Tories once the money ran out.
But at times like now there is a difference,  The Tories work for capital. Labour will win élections (probably not this one) by standing up for workers.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: NAG1 on May 05, 2017, 09:26:09 AM
The Tories and the Republicans sell dreams to working class voters and then shaft them

So no real difference with Dems and Labour then.
there wasn't a huge difference between New Labour and the Tories once the money ran out.
But at times like now there is a difference,  The Tories work for capital. Labour will win élections (probably not this one) by standing up for workers.

By the time Labour come back from this current disastrous period (IF they do) the damage will all be done. I've said it before all well and good to stand and shout the odds from the side lines and pretend to be standing up for workers, if you cant get elected it is all hot air.

Corbyn is a complete disaster for the Labour party.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 05, 2017, 09:38:21 AM
I don't think Corbyn is that bad. The people want their Brexit.
As Mr Mencken said , democracy is the art of giving the people what they want, good and hard.
Labour can't get any traction with voters if they still believe in the system.

I think this election will be for the Tories what  the 2013 Fergie Time Premiership win was for Man Utd. The last glory day for a while.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1nDYrCxeig

Now the Reds are marching on on on to 4th, perhaps . Things fall apart.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: ashman on May 05, 2017, 10:19:47 AM
The Tories and the Republicans sell dreams to working class voters and then shaft them

So no real difference with Dems and Labour then.
there wasn't a huge difference between New Labour and the Tories once the money ran out.
But at times like now there is a difference,  The Tories work for capital. Labour will win élections (probably not this one) by standing up for workers.

The "City" had no better friends than Blair and Brown.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AQMP on May 05, 2017, 12:34:05 PM
UKIP getting wiped out in local elections in England.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Minder on May 05, 2017, 12:55:16 PM
I think Corbyn gets an easy enough ride from the media, considering where he is taking the Labour Party - oblivion.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: sid waddell on May 05, 2017, 01:41:22 PM
I think Corbyn gets an easy enough ride from the media, considering where he is taking the Labour Party - oblivion.
I never knew calling for somebody to be "knifed to death" was "giving them an easy enough ride".

Given such, one would hate to see what getting a rough ride from the media would look like.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 05, 2017, 01:43:16 PM
I think Corbyn gets an easy enough ride from the media, considering where he is taking the Labour Party - oblivion.
I never knew calling for somebody to be "knifed to death" was "giving them an easy enough ride".

Given such, one would hate to see what getting a rough ride from the media would look like.
I don't think you can include KMcK as representative of the media or any grouping for that matter. 
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: sid waddell on May 05, 2017, 02:00:38 PM
I think Corbyn gets an easy enough ride from the media, considering where he is taking the Labour Party - oblivion.
I never knew calling for somebody to be "knifed to death" was "giving them an easy enough ride".

Given such, one would hate to see what getting a rough ride from the media would look like.
I don't think you can include KMcK as representative of the media or any grouping for that matter.
I think he's entirely representative of much of the mindset that permeates the right-wing UK press.

Others may not be stupid enough to explicitly call for Jeremy Corbyn to be knifed to death, but their poisonous rhetoric raises the possibility of something like that occurring. One only has to go back to the murder of Jo Cox to see that.

The Daily Mail, The Sun and the Daily Express are nothing less than agents of fascism. The Telegraph isn't much better.

Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: NAG1 on May 05, 2017, 02:37:17 PM
Corbyn doesnt even need the Right wing papers or press giving him a rough ride, he does that plenty well all by himself.

Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 05, 2017, 03:47:55 PM
I think Corbyn gets an easy enough ride from the media, considering where he is taking the Labour Party - oblivion.
I never knew calling for somebody to be "knifed to death" was "giving them an easy enough ride".

Given such, one would hate to see what getting a rough ride from the media would look like.
I don't think you can include KMcK as representative of the media or any grouping for that matter.
I think he's entirely representative of much of the mindset that permeates the right-wing UK press.

Others may not be stupid enough to explicitly call for Jeremy Corbyn to be knifed to death, but their poisonous rhetoric raises the possibility of something like that occurring. One only has to go back to the murder of Jo Cox to see that.

The Daily Mail, The Sun and the Daily Express are nothing less than agents of fascism. The Telegraph isn't much better.
The Telegraph is barely a newspaper. It has decent sport and features but opinion and politics are atrocious.
It's owned by 2 members of the 1% and columnists write for them. But it has hundreds of thousands of readers who are not ultra rich and it is not standing up for their interests.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AQMP on May 05, 2017, 04:32:32 PM
UKIP have currently one Councillor elected in England, Mebyon Kernow have 3.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 05, 2017, 05:09:38 PM
UKIP have currently one Councillor elected in England, Mebyon Kernow have 3.
I'm surprised they even have one. Now that Brexit delivery is underway what is the point of their existence?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: T Fearon on May 05, 2017, 05:39:37 PM
So are SF going to hand the North over to a Tory government with a huge majority?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 05, 2017, 07:43:27 PM
So are SF going to hand the North over to a Tory government with a huge majority?
No. They will privatise NI and flog it to a Hedge Fund.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Minder on May 06, 2017, 03:10:21 PM
More relentless criticism of Corbyn by the right wing media

No more excuses: Jeremy Corbyn is to blame for this meltdown

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/05/jeremy-corbyn-blame-meltdown-labour-leader?CMP=share_btn_tw
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Denn Forever on May 06, 2017, 03:25:44 PM
I think Corbyn's biggest anchor is Labour party itself. 
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: whitey on May 06, 2017, 03:53:00 PM
I think Labour is fvcked......if they had booted Crobyn after Brexit, they may have had some chance.

Very much like the Democratic party in the US, they have forgotten about the issues that matter to their working class base, and instead have focused on the issues that matter to the Oxbridge educated urban elite of the party
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 06, 2017, 04:08:31 PM
I think Labour is fvcked......if they had booted Crobyn after Brexit, they may have had some chance.

Very much like the Democratic party in the US, they have forgotten about the issues that matter to their working class base, and instead have focused on the issues that matter to the Oxbridge educated urban elite of the party
http://press.labour.org.uk/post/159785074074/jeremy-corbyn-first-speech-of-the-2017-general
"[The] rules have created a cosy cartel, which rigs the system in favour of a few powerful and wealthy individuals and corporations. It’s a rigged system set up by the wealth extractors for the wealth extractors.
But things can, and they will, change. And Labour in this election will be part of a movement of the British people to make that change.
How dare they crash the economy with their recklessness and greed, and then punish those who had nothing to do with it?
We will overturn this rigged system. The Conservatives will never do that"

It's the same as the States. Not enough people have joined the dots
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: bennydorano on May 06, 2017, 04:20:31 PM
The one thing that a future Labour leader can take solace from is the demise of UKIP, their growth was a wildcard that Labour had (& continue to have) no idea how to deal with, a lot of Labour's core vote was gone. Yesterday and at the G.E those votes are likely to go to the Tories but they are definitely winnable again in the future. I look at the shadow cabinet and dont see a great future for Labour anyway. David Milliband could be their future down the line, the New Labour route is their only hope too, Corbynism is futile.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 06, 2017, 04:24:16 PM
The one thing that a future Labour leader can take solace from is the demise of UKIP, their growth was a wildcard that Labour had (& continue to have) no idea how to deal with, a lot of Labour's core vote was gone. Yesterday and at the G.E those votes are likely to go to the Tories but they are definitely winnable again in the future. I look at the shadow cabinet and dont see a great future for Labour anyway. David Milliband could be their future down the line, the New Labour route is their only hope too, Corbynism is futile.
Macron is the Frnch version of D Miliband. I don't think that model has a future . Corbyn is ahead of his time.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 06, 2017, 05:15:08 PM
The one thing that a future Labour leader can take solace from is the demise of UKIP, their growth was a wildcard that Labour had (& continue to have) no idea how to deal with, a lot of Labour's core vote was gone. Yesterday and at the G.E those votes are likely to go to the Tories but they are definitely winnable again in the future. I look at the shadow cabinet and dont see a great future for Labour anyway. David Milliband could be their future down the line, the New Labour route is their only hope too, Corbynism is futile.
Macron is the Frnch version of D Miliband. I don't think that model has a future . Corbyn is ahead of his time.

Corbyn was never ahead of his time.  He lacks the charisma and leadership qualities required to be a figurehead for a party capable of being the government of England.  His default position has been to protest and to agitate against those in charge but never to have the characteristics of a strong leader in whom the English public could put their confidence in to lead their country.  Over the years he has simply taken the protest position and has no respect from his colleagues who he expects to follow him.  Without John McDonnell and his PR man Seumus Milne, Corbyn would already be gone, they are pulling his strings for their own benefit with the objective of changing the Labour party into their own image and miles away from the people they need to win over to ever become a government.  How could those who voted last Thursday and the many more who will be voting Conservative on June 8th ever be encouraged to change their minds and move to Corbyn and his Labour party because without changing them then no government?

The shifting voter had moved to UKIP giving them over 5 million votes in 2015 adjust like those SDLP voters who were persuaded to lend their vote to SF for a specific election and purpose, the Labour to UKIP voter has not returned to Labour but have now moved to the Conservatives where they will be hard to shift because the Tories have identified with delivering Brexit so that is the similar purpose as lending your vote to UKIP.

The Labour party is gone for the next ten years and until a new confident figurehead leader who can gain the confidence of the public emerges to build on the infrastructure of the Labour party when the current new activists have realised that they backed a failure in Corbyn and were fooled and manipulated by McDonnell and Milne and either walk away or join in with the new leader.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 06, 2017, 05:30:41 PM
The one thing that a future Labour leader can take solace from is the demise of UKIP, their growth was a wildcard that Labour had (& continue to have) no idea how to deal with, a lot of Labour's core vote was gone. Yesterday and at the G.E those votes are likely to go to the Tories but they are definitely winnable again in the future. I look at the shadow cabinet and dont see a great future for Labour anyway. David Milliband could be their future down the line, the New Labour route is their only hope too, Corbynism is futile.
Macron is the Frnch version of D Miliband. I don't think that model has a future . Corbyn is ahead of his time.

Corbyn was never ahead of his time.  He lacks the charisma and leadership qualities required to be a figurehead for a party capable of being the government of England.  His default position has been to protest and to agitate against those in charge but never to have the characteristics of a strong leader in whom the English public could put their confidence in to lead their country.  Over the years he has simply taken the protest position and has no respect from his colleagues who he expects to follow him.  Without John McDonnell and his PR man Seumus Milne, Corbyn would already be gone, they are pulling his strings for their own benefit with the objective of changing the Labour party into their own image and miles away from the people they need to win over to ever become a government.  How could those who voted last Thursday and the many more who will be voting Conservative on June 8th ever be encouraged to change their minds and move to Corbyn and his Labour party because without changing them then no government?

The shifting voter had moved to UKIP giving them over 5 million votes in 2015 adjust like those SDLP voters who were persuaded to lend their vote to SF for a specific election and purpose, the Labour to UKIP voter has not returned to Labour but have now moved to the Conservatives where they will be hard to shift because the Tories have identified with delivering Brexit so that is the similar purpose as lending your vote to UKIP.

The Labour party is gone for the next ten years and until a new confident figurehead leader who can gain the confidence of the public emerges to build on the infrastructure of the Labour party when the current new activists have realised that they backed a failure in Corbyn and were fooled and manipulated by McDonnell and Milne and either walk away or join in with the new leader.

UK politics now is pass the exploding parcel. The Tories will probably be in charge when the economy collapses and can't be put back together again
Renzi was a smiley Tony Blair style leader in Italy but he couldn't get anything going.
You can't guarantee anything for 10 years now. It's too volatile.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AQMP on May 06, 2017, 05:56:39 PM
The one thing that a future Labour leader can take solace from is the demise of UKIP, their growth was a wildcard that Labour had (& continue to have) no idea how to deal with, a lot of Labour's core vote was gone. Yesterday and at the G.E those votes are likely to go to the Tories but they are definitely winnable again in the future. I look at the shadow cabinet and dont see a great future for Labour anyway. David Milliband could be their future down the line, the New Labour route is their only hope too, Corbynism is futile.
Macron is the Frnch version of D Miliband. I don't think that model has a future . Corbyn is ahead of his time.
Agreed, Macron is a bluffer who is not Le Pen
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: whitey on May 06, 2017, 06:06:23 PM
What do voters want?

Jobs

Healthcare

Education

Security

Law and Order


If Labour doesnt make these their priorities they are in serious trouble.  From what I can tell the UKIP voters defected to the Tories, not back to Labour in yesterdays local elections.  Theres lots of hardworking working class people and from what I could tell, Ed Milliband had nothing to offer them at the last GE. During that campaign a senior Labour minister sent out a snide condescending tweet with a picture of a house that had a British flag flying from the window


Corbyn is a joke and Labour is going to get wiped out next month

Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 06, 2017, 06:12:25 PM
What do voters want?

Jobs

Healthcare

Education

Security

Law and Order


If Labour doesnt make these their priorities they are in serious trouble.  From what I can tell the UKIP voters defected to the Tories, not back to Labour in yesterdays local elections.  Theres lots of hardworking working class people and from what I could tell, Ed Milliband had nothing to offer them at the last GE. During that campaign a senior Labour minister sent out a snide condescending tweet with a picture of a house that had a British flag flying from the window


Corbyn is a joke and Labour is going to get wiped out next month
Voters want payrises and a properly funded NHS. the Tories won't deliver either
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: whitey on May 06, 2017, 06:36:49 PM
What do voters want?

Jobs

Healthcare

Education

Security

Law and Order


If Labour doesnt make these their priorities they are in serious trouble.  From what I can tell the UKIP voters defected to the Tories, not back to Labour in yesterdays local elections.  Theres lots of hardworking working class people and from what I could tell, Ed Milliband had nothing to offer them at the last GE. During that campaign a senior Labour minister sent out a snide condescending tweet with a picture of a house that had a British flag flying from the window


Corbyn is a joke and Labour is going to get wiped out next month
Voters want payrises and a properly funded NHS. the Tories won't deliver either

True...but Labour opened up the borders to mass immigration and these new arrivals are in direct competition with Labours base supporters for housing, healthcare and jobs.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 06, 2017, 06:46:42 PM
What do voters want?

Jobs

Healthcare

Education

Security

Law and Order


If Labour doesnt make these their priorities they are in serious trouble.  From what I can tell the UKIP voters defected to the Tories, not back to Labour in yesterdays local elections.  Theres lots of hardworking working class people and from what I could tell, Ed Milliband had nothing to offer them at the last GE. During that campaign a senior Labour minister sent out a snide condescending tweet with a picture of a house that had a British flag flying from the window


Corbyn is a joke and Labour is going to get wiped out next month
Voters want payrises and a properly funded NHS. the Tories won't deliver either

True...but Labour opened up the borders to mass immigration and these new arrivals are in direct competition with Labours base supporters for housing, healthcare and jobs.
The Tories used immigration to boost growth. Tweedledum and Tweedledee.
Payrises would solve many problems. Same in the US.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: whitey on May 06, 2017, 07:59:02 PM
What do voters want?

Jobs

Healthcare

Education

Security

Law and Order


If Labour doesnt make these their priorities they are in serious trouble.  From what I can tell the UKIP voters defected to the Tories, not back to Labour in yesterdays local elections.  Theres lots of hardworking working class people and from what I could tell, Ed Milliband had nothing to offer them at the last GE. During that campaign a senior Labour minister sent out a snide condescending tweet with a picture of a house that had a British flag flying from the window


Corbyn is a joke and Labour is going to get wiped out next month
Voters want payrises and a properly funded NHS. the Tories won't deliver either

True...but Labour opened up the borders to mass immigration and these new arrivals are in direct competition with Labours base supporters for housing, healthcare and jobs.
The Tories used immigration to boost growth. Tweedledum and Tweedledee.
Payrises would solve many problems. Same in the US.

The TORIES used immingratio......wow.....thats some revisionist history your peddling there


https://www.theguardian.com/news/2015/mar/24/how-immigration-came-to-haunt-labour-inside-story
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 06, 2017, 08:06:47 PM
What do voters want?

Jobs

Healthcare

Education

Security

Law and Order


If Labour doesnt make these their priorities they are in serious trouble.  From what I can tell the UKIP voters defected to the Tories, not back to Labour in yesterdays local elections.  Theres lots of hardworking working class people and from what I could tell, Ed Milliband had nothing to offer them at the last GE. During that campaign a senior Labour minister sent out a snide condescending tweet with a picture of a house that had a British flag flying from the window


Corbyn is a joke and Labour is going to get wiped out next month
Voters want payrises and a properly funded NHS. the Tories won't deliver either

True...but Labour opened up the borders to mass immigration and these new arrivals are in direct competition with Labours base supporters for housing, healthcare and jobs.
The Tories used immigration to boost growth. Tweedledum and Tweedledee.
Payrises would solve many problems. Same in the US.

The TORIES used immingratio......wow.....thats some revisionist history your peddling there


https://www.theguardian.com/news/2015/mar/24/how-immigration-came-to-haunt-labour-inside-story
The Tories have been in power since 2011.
The economic model is based on imigration not payrises with the government topping up low wages.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: whitey on May 06, 2017, 08:12:53 PM
What do voters want?

Jobs

Healthcare

Education

Security

Law and Order


If Labour doesnt make these their priorities they are in serious trouble.  From what I can tell the UKIP voters defected to the Tories, not back to Labour in yesterdays local elections.  Theres lots of hardworking working class people and from what I could tell, Ed Milliband had nothing to offer them at the last GE. During that campaign a senior Labour minister sent out a snide condescending tweet with a picture of a house that had a British flag flying from the window


Corbyn is a joke and Labour is going to get wiped out next month
Voters want payrises and a properly funded NHS. the Tories won't deliver either

True...but Labour opened up the borders to mass immigration and these new arrivals are in direct competition with Labours base supporters for housing, healthcare and jobs.
The Tories used immigration to boost growth. Tweedledum and Tweedledee.
Payrises would solve many problems. Same in the US.

The TORIES used immingratio......wow.....thats some revisionist history your peddling there


https://www.theguardian.com/news/2015/mar/24/how-immigration-came-to-haunt-labour-inside-story
The Tories have been in power since 2011.
The economic model is based on imigration not payrises with the government topping up low wages.

From link:


"Between 1997 and 2010, net annual immigration quadrupled, and the UK population was boosted by more than 2.2 million immigrants, more than twice the population of Birmingham. In Labour’s last term in government, 2005-2010, net migration reached on average 247,000 a year."

Torys (and UKIP) have been trying to undo Labours disastrous immigration policies
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 06, 2017, 08:15:50 PM
Immigration now is higher than 247k.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: whitey on May 06, 2017, 08:23:41 PM
Immigration now is higher than 247k.

A lot of that is down to the EU....hence the Brexit vote
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: armaghniac on May 06, 2017, 08:45:42 PM
Torys (and UKIP) have been trying to undo Labours disastrous immigration policies

Quite. Just as Trump is trying to stop the flotsam and jetsam of the world going to the USA. Or maybe not.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 06, 2017, 08:52:08 PM
Immigration now is higher than 247k.

A lot of that is down to the EU....hence the Brexit vote
Quite. But how this is undoing Labour''s work is beyond me.
And anyway Brexit is unlikely to reduce immigration. 

Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 07, 2017, 07:52:33 AM
More billionaires than ever before. Plebs don't get payrises. No money for the NHS

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/06/britain-has-billionaires-ever-2017-rich-list-reveals/
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 11, 2017, 02:06:10 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/11/leaker-draft-manifesto-jeremy-corbyn-labour-trident

Corbyn's leaked draft manifesto: what Labour would do
Labour would keep Trident, nationalise the railways and phase out tuition fees, among other policies


Kevin Rawlinson
Thursday 11 May 2017 12.56 BST
First published on Thursday 11 May 2017 00.49 BST
Details of a draft version of Labour’s pitch to the country have leaked, with Jeremy Corbyn’s party hoping to make manifesto commitments to part-nationalise some public utilities and to make funds available for social care.



Below is a summary of what the party leadership would like to do in government.
Respect the Brexit referendum result and give a meaningful vote on any deal to parliament. EU citizens living in the UK would have their rights guaranteed unilaterally. Theresa May’s Brexit white paper would be replaced with a plan that aims to retain the benefits of the customs union and single market.
Bring parts of the energy industry into public ownership and introduce a local, socially owned energy firm in every area. Also introduce an “immediate emergency price cap” to make sure dual fuel bills stay below £1,000 a year.
Nationalise the railways.
Phase out tuition fees.
Make more funds available for childcare and social care.
Retain the Trident nuclear deterrent. A sentence from earlier drafts saying that a prime minister should be “extremely cautious” about using a weapon that would kill “millions of innocent civilians” has been removed.
Place “peace, universal rights and international law” at the heart of foreign policy, while committing to spend 2% of GDP on defence, as required by Nato.
Make zero-hours contracts illegal.
Build 100,000 new council houses per year.
Complete HS2 from London to Birmingham, Leeds, Manchester and Scotland.
Borrow £250bn to invest in infrastructure but stick to the fiscal credibility rule to balance day-to-day spending. Also raise taxes for people earning more than £80,000 and reverse corporation and inheritance-tax cuts.
Insulate homes of disabled veterans for free.
Extend the right to abortion to Northern Ireland.
Oppose a second Scottish referendum.
Lower the voting age to 16.
Employ 1,000 more border guards.
End the badger cull, keep the fox-hunting ban and support a ban on wild animals in circuses, as well as protecting bees by banning neonicotinoids.
Extend the Freedom of Information Act to private companies running public services.
Review universal credit cuts with a view to reversing them.
Recognise the benefit that immigrants have brought but introduce fair rules and reasonable management, working with employers that need to recruit from abroad but deterring exploitation.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: screenexile on May 11, 2017, 02:19:26 PM
That all seems sensible enough to me. . . Nationalising the Railway should get them some votes because private rail is a complete shambles. Tuition fees isn't going to get you many votes except for the 18-25 bracket.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AQMP on May 11, 2017, 02:23:22 PM
Extend abortion rights to NI??  Is that not a devolved issue?  I suppose it could be done under direct rule.

For accuracy's sake, the plan for railways is to take them into public ownership as the existing franchises expire and in energy it's to set up publicly owned companies to compete with the private sector ones.  Both these policies were in the Labour manifesto in 2015.  As Corbyn has said a large portion of the energy and rail market is already state owned, just by states other than the UK.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Hardy on May 11, 2017, 02:31:32 PM
Betfair
Most seats
Tories 1/11
Lab. 14.5/1
Lib. 40/1
Tory majority 1/5
No majority 5.2/1


Two weeks on the Tories are consolidating strongly:
Most seats
Tories 1/20
Lab. 19/1
Lib. 150/1
Tory majority 1/11
No majority 13.5/1


Latest:
Most seats
Tories 1/33
Lab. 27/1
Lib. 370/1
Tory majority 1/14
No majority 19/1
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: OakleafCounty on May 11, 2017, 02:32:47 PM
That all seems sensible enough to me. . . Nationalising the Railway should get them some votes because private rail is a complete shambles. Tuition fees isn't going to get you many votes except for the 18-25 bracket.

Surely any parent would consider voting for someone saying they will scrap tuition fees.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 11, 2017, 02:48:05 PM
Generally a poor manifesto which brings back nationalisation that cannot be afforded and the record of these nationalised industries was poor.  How about looking at how other modern European countries like Germany deal with their energy companies and railways before going back to the 1970s.

Quote
Respect the Brexit referendum result and give a meaningful vote on any deal to parliament.
So, no different from conservatives.
Quote
EU citizens living in the UK would have their rights guaranteed unilaterally.
Same as Tories

Quote
Theresa May’s Brexit white paper would be replaced with a plan that aims to retain the benefits of the customs union and single market.
Didn't vote against this when in parliament, just went with the Tories.
Quote
Bring parts of the energy industry into public ownership and introduce a local, socially owned energy firm in every area. Also introduce an “immediate emergency price cap” to make sure dual fuel bills stay below £1,000 a year.
Same as Tory proposed cap on energy bills

Quote
Nationalise the railways.
Apart of franchises the railway system is still nationalised - unaffordable to payoff all franchises and rolling stock
Quote
Phase out tuition fees.
Tuition fees were introduced by Labour - a reversal in party policy
Quote
Make more funds available for childcare and social care.
Social care is a black hole for funding in UK and all parties agree more funding is required
[quote
Retain the Trident nuclear deterrent. A sentence from earlier drafts saying that a prime minister should be “extremely cautious” about using a weapon that would kill “millions of innocent civilians” has been removed.
[/quote]
Same as Tories - don't believe any PM would launch unilaterally as it would lead to destruction of UK but not a deterrent if you are not prepared to fire back - Mutually Assured Destruction is the accepted worldwide policy
Quote
Place “peace, universal rights and international law” at the heart of foreign policy, while committing to spend 2% of GDP on defence, as required by Nato.
Same as Tories
Quote
Make zero-hours contracts illegal.
A unique policy
Quote
Build 100,000 new council houses per year.
Impossible promise, never achieved by Tory or Labour in last 40 years and not a central government role - depends on local government policy and funding.
Quote
Complete HS2 from London to Birmingham, Leeds, Manchester and Scotland.
Same as Tories
Quote
Borrow £250bn to invest in infrastructure but stick to the fiscal credibility rule to balance day-to-day spending.
On top of the trillion pounds already owed by UK - more debt for future generations
Quote
Also raise taxes for people earning more than £80,000 and reverse corporation and inheritance-tax cuts.
5% of earners will then provide more than half of all tax on income as only 1.6 million earn more than £80K, higher corporation tax will send companies to other countries, e.g. Ireland, ordinary people will pay inheritance tax on homes left by parents due to house price inflation the average house price in UK is £301,572.
Quote
Insulate homes of disabled veterans for free.
Has been available in UK for anyone on state benefits
Quote
Extend the right to abortion to Northern Ireland.
Runs against devolution - this has been devolved away from Westminster
Quote
Oppose a second Scottish referendum.
Just like Tories
Quote
Lower the voting age to 16.
Was already provided in Scots referendum - if young people voted at even a rate close to the over 50s they could change things but it doesn't happen e.g. the EU Referendum was lost on poor turnout of those most affected by the change.
Quote
Employ 1,000 more border guards.
Even more little Englander than the Tory government
Quote
End the badger cull
An Islington view on how to control the rampant brucellosis problem in England where disease is spread by badgers
Quote
Extend the Freedom of Information Act to private companies running public services.
Wouldn't be laughable if Labour had not been responsible for tightening the FoI when in government
Quote
Review universal credit cuts with a view to reversing them.
No need to review if you really opposed the cuts and were a relevant opposition when they were implemented
Quote
Recognise the benefit that immigrants have brought but introduce fair rules and reasonable management, working with employers that need to recruit from abroad but deterring exploitation.
Keeping out the immigrants to meet the demands of the unions
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 11, 2017, 02:59:14 PM
Generally a poor manifesto which brings back nationalisation that cannot be afforded and the record of these nationalised industries was poor.  How about looking at how other modern European countries like Germany deal with their energy companies and railways before going back to the 1970s.

Quote
Respect the Brexit referendum result and give a meaningful vote on any deal to parliament.
So, no different from conservatives.
Quote
EU citizens living in the UK would have their rights guaranteed unilaterally.
Same as Tories

Quote
Theresa May’s Brexit white paper would be replaced with a plan that aims to retain the benefits of the customs union and single market.
Didn't vote against this when in parliament, just went with the Tories.
Quote
Bring parts of the energy industry into public ownership and introduce a local, socially owned energy firm in every area. Also introduce an “immediate emergency price cap” to make sure dual fuel bills stay below £1,000 a year.
Same as Tory proposed cap on energy bills

Quote
Nationalise the railways.
Apart of franchises the railway system is still nationalised - unaffordable to payoff all franchises and rolling stock
Quote
Phase out tuition fees.
Tuition fees were introduced by Labour - a reversal in party policy
Quote
Make more funds available for childcare and social care.
Social care is a black hole for funding in UK and all parties agree more funding is required
[quote
Retain the Trident nuclear deterrent. A sentence from earlier drafts saying that a prime minister should be “extremely cautious” about using a weapon that would kill “millions of innocent civilians” has been removed.
Same as Tories - don't believe any PM would launch unilaterally as it would lead to destruction of UK but not a deterrent if you are not prepared to fire back - Mutually Assured Destruction is the accepted worldwide policy
Quote
Place “peace, universal rights and international law” at the heart of foreign policy, while committing to spend 2% of GDP on defence, as required by Nato.
Same as Tories
Quote
Make zero-hours contracts illegal.
A unique policy
Quote
Build 100,000 new council houses per year.
Impossible promise, never achieved by Tory or Labour in last 40 years and not a central government role - depends on local government policy and funding.
Quote
Complete HS2 from London to Birmingham, Leeds, Manchester and Scotland.
Same as Tories
Quote
Borrow £250bn to invest in infrastructure but stick to the fiscal credibility rule to balance day-to-day spending.
On top of the trillion pounds already owed by UK - more debt for future generations
Quote
Also raise taxes for people earning more than £80,000 and reverse corporation and inheritance-tax cuts.
5% of earners will then provide more than half of all tax on income as only 1.6 million earn more than £80K, higher corporation tax will send companies to other countries, e.g. Ireland, ordinary people will pay inheritance tax on homes left by parents due to house price inflation the average house price in UK is £301,572.
Quote
Insulate homes of disabled veterans for free.
Has been available in UK for anyone on state benefits
Quote
Extend the right to abortion to Northern Ireland.
Runs against devolution - this has been devolved away from Westminster
Quote
Oppose a second Scottish referendum.
Just like Tories
Quote
Lower the voting age to 16.
Was already provided in Scots referendum - if young people voted at even a rate close to the over 50s they could change things but it doesn't happen e.g. the EU Referendum was lost on poor turnout of those most affected by the change.
Quote
Employ 1,000 more border guards.
Even more little Englander than the Tory government
Quote
End the badger cull
An Islington view on how to control the rampant brucellosis problem in England where disease is spread by badgers
Quote
Extend the Freedom of Information Act to private companies running public services.
Wouldn't be laughable if Labour had not been responsible for tightening the FoI when in government
Quote
Review universal credit cuts with a view to reversing them.
No need to review if you really opposed the cuts and were a relevant opposition when they were implemented
Quote
Recognise the benefit that immigrants have brought but introduce fair rules and reasonable management, working with employers that need to recruit from abroad but deterring exploitation.
Keeping out the immigrants to meet the demands of the unions
[/quote]

Labour want to stay in the single market and customs union. Tories don't
Tories want to use residency as a bargaining chip
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: johnneycool on May 11, 2017, 03:28:08 PM
What do voters want?

Jobs

Healthcare

Education

Security

Law and Order


If Labour doesnt make these their priorities they are in serious trouble.  From what I can tell the UKIP voters defected to the Tories, not back to Labour in yesterdays local elections.  Theres lots of hardworking working class people and from what I could tell, Ed Milliband had nothing to offer them at the last GE. During that campaign a senior Labour minister sent out a snide condescending tweet with a picture of a house that had a British flag flying from the window


Corbyn is a joke and Labour is going to get wiped out next month
Voters want payrises and a properly funded NHS. the Tories won't deliver either

True...but Labour opened up the borders to mass immigration and these new arrivals are in direct competition with Labours base supporters for housing, healthcare and jobs.
The Tories used immigration to boost growth. Tweedledum and Tweedledee.
Payrises would solve many problems. Same in the US.

The TORIES used immingratio......wow.....thats some revisionist history your peddling there


https://www.theguardian.com/news/2015/mar/24/how-immigration-came-to-haunt-labour-inside-story
The Tories have been in power since 2011.
The economic model is based on imigration not payrises with the government topping up low wages.

From link:


"Between 1997 and 2010, net annual immigration quadrupled, and the UK population was boosted by more than 2.2 million immigrants, more than twice the population of Birmingham. In Labour’s last term in government, 2005-2010, net migration reached on average 247,000 a year."

Torys (and UKIP) have been trying to undo Labours disastrous immigration policies

I'd suggest one of the main drivers for this increase in migrants was the expansion of the EU to a lot of Eastern block countries in 2004 which allowed free movement of people and labour within this new expanded block rather than any party political decision or UK government policy.
I'd presume the then UK Government would have had to agree to it at EU level and there's a very good chance a Tory government would also have agreed to it.

These new trade deals post Brexit will have a "relaxation of visas" aspect as the Indians have already said and the EU won't be allowing the free movement of goods without the free movement of people also.

Johnny Englander wants to control his own borders and make his own laws, well he can, but he'll pay heavily for the privilege and we're collateral damage in it all.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: armaghniac on May 11, 2017, 06:06:59 PM
I'd suggest one of the main drivers for this increase in migrants was the expansion of the EU to a lot of Eastern block countries in 2004 which allowed free movement of people and labour within this new expanded block rather than any party political decision or UK government policy.

Only the UK, Ireland and Sweden agreed to full free movement in 2004.


Quote
I'd presume the then UK Government would have had to agree to it at EU level and there's a very good chance a Tory government would also have agreed to it.

The Tories probably would have agreed to it!
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 14, 2017, 10:29:21 AM
One of the things about Tories is their adherence to economic ideas that are no longer coherent.
In the current election one such idea is that adopting Labour policies would bring the UK back to the 70s when the economy ground to a standstill As if now is different. But wages in real terms are 15% lower than 2008. The UK needs poilcies that support demand,which means things like payrises for workers.
 
There is a very interesting video here. The Tories have to sell voters policies that are not in their interest. A no deal Brexit is insane, for example. 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/13/unions-wrote-corbyns-manifesto-100-demands-copied-pasted-labours/
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: T Fearon on May 14, 2017, 11:12:32 AM
Where is the money going to come from to fund pay rises?

On another note,with both the SF and SDLP old guard shuffling off the stage,is it not time for a merger or rebranding of Northern nationalism with one party only? After all SF are fielding Solicitors these days.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 14, 2017, 11:54:04 AM
Where is the money going to come from to fund pay rises?

On another note,with both the SF and SDLP old guard shuffling off the stage,is it not time for a merger or rebranding of Northern nationalism with one party only? After all SF are fielding Solicitors these days.
Investment

There SFA investment at the moment
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: bennydorano on May 21, 2017, 10:31:41 AM
Lastest Opinion Polls according to UK Times / You gov poll :
Conservatives 44%
Labour 35%

The Manifestos being seen as the reason for the closing of the gap.

Watch the UK press go to town from tomorrow.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 21, 2017, 12:44:55 PM
https://www.indy100.com/article/general-election-2017-theresa-may-strong-stable-my-arse-signs-up-across-london-7747081
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AQMP on May 22, 2017, 12:52:14 PM
May has had to do a U-turn on unpopular social care policy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40001221
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: DuffleKing on May 22, 2017, 02:02:22 PM

The number of uturns by this tory government in May's time is unparalleled pro rata, particularly from a financial policy perspective.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: johnneycool on May 22, 2017, 02:07:46 PM
May has had to do a U-turn on unpopular social care policy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40001221

I don't get this strong and stable leadership shíte that the Torys are peddling as May has shown anything but with her cabinet selections and changes in policy...
Labour should be honing in on this.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 22, 2017, 02:10:46 PM
May has had to do a U-turn on unpopular social care policy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40001221

It is not a bad policy but it was badly presented and led to a foothold for a labour party that wants to increase inheritance tax when this policy would have left at least £100K for an inheritance after a person pays for old age care after having paid from house and other financial assets.  At the minute they take everything to pay for social care and leave just £23K.

The u-turn will only help the very well off who don't want to pay for their care and have much greater assets so a cap on the amount to pay will ensure that they have much more to leave to their heirs.
 
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: magpie seanie on May 22, 2017, 03:34:31 PM
Great to see all the know alls who criticise Corbyn yet seem willing somehow to accept the draconian Tories are possibly in for a shock. Labour's manifesto was a perfectly reasonable and if anything, moderate approach for a Labour party. Corbin has been attacked by the Tories, most of the media and the red Tories in his own party but he's still standing and closing the gap. He may not win but he's at worst building the foundations for a proper Labour party and not a different coloured Tory party that Blair made them.

Will be an interesting last few weeks. The Tory campaign has been a shambles and their "dementia tax" is doing them a lot of harm. The length of the campaign has given people time to think and thankfully, as seafoid put it earlier, some of them are beginning to "join the dots". Corbin has.....MOMENTUM.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: maddog on May 22, 2017, 03:37:11 PM
Great to see all the know alls who criticise Corbyn yet seem willing somehow to accept the draconian Tories are possibly in for a shock. Labour's manifesto was a perfectly reasonable and if anything, moderate approach for a Labour party. Corbin has been attacked by the Tories, most of the media and the red Tories in his own party but he's still standing and closing the gap. He may not win but he's at worst building the foundations for a proper Labour party and not a different coloured Tory party that Blair made them.

Will be an interesting last few weeks. The Tory campaign has been a shambles and their "dementia tax" is doing them a lot of harm. The length of the campaign has given people time to think and thankfully, as seafoid put it earlier, some of them are beginning to "join the dots". Corbin has.....MOMENTUM.

Hope you are right Seanie. This country wants to wake up.


Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Carmen Stateside on May 22, 2017, 03:52:08 PM
Good to see the media actually call her out today on the U turn.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AQMP on May 22, 2017, 04:11:20 PM
Good to see the media actually call her out today on the U turn.

Yeah, even Laura Kuenssberg of the BBC gave her a hard time!  May's handling of the press conference was awful, once she has to deviate from the script she's a disaster.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: screenexile on May 22, 2017, 05:04:52 PM
It's great to see May fumbling around. The complacency shown by her and the Tories since the election was called has been fantastic.

Labour's manifesto has destroyed the Tories and the landslide they thought they had has seemed to disappear. The Tories have had 7 years at it and the NHS has been run into the ground, immigration has not been controlled as promised, Brexit, higher tuition fees and a spiralling deficit have shown the Tory's have fucked it up and somebody else needs to take over.

I don't think they will do enough to overturn the Tories but it's great to see the gap narrowing and Corbyn coming out fighting for a change!
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 22, 2017, 09:45:08 PM
Did the Tories believe that they have the ability to do what they want and so put in all these acts, and feel that no one would pull them up on it?

Political suicide by May, unfortunately not enough to see her get bate!
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 22, 2017, 09:52:05 PM
May is out of her depth. I think the Tory party has been drugged. The DUP also took the tabs.
Corbyn has a much better manifesto.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: yellowcard on May 22, 2017, 11:02:30 PM
May is doing her best to try and lose this election. Seeing her performance on TV with Neill earlier, it's no surprise that she has been kept hidden away. Forced into another U turn on the dementia, it lends yet more credence to the opinion that she is simply making it up as she goes along.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: screenexile on May 22, 2017, 11:17:14 PM
May is doing her best to try and lose this election. Seeing her performance on TV with Neill earlier, it's no surprise that she has been kept hidden away. Forced into another U turn on the dementia, it lends yet more credence to the opinion that she is simply making it up as she goes along.

Neill wiped the floor with her that was f**king brilliant. Another two weeks of this as long as Corbyn doesn't do anything stupid and the gap will become worrisome!!
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 23, 2017, 08:25:40 AM
Andrew Neil is probably the best interviewer on TV or Radio and this is no surprise if you watch the Sunday Politics or Daily Politics.  He regularly spears politicians with such accuracy and tenacity that it is no wonder that the main parties tend to put up willing victims for him instead of the leadership.

May is a poor media performer and cannot handle the cut and thrust of debate as seen by PMQs each week, she had made Corbyn look good on a regular basis.  She is programmed by media training - keep repeating your slogan, answer every question with your prepared statement on the topic, try not to provide any hostage to fortune.

Actually, for her, she did reasonably well with Neil.  She managed to hold her ground, stick to her own script and not make any gaffes.  From a public perspective, her supporters will be happy enough, her enemies will be happy that she couldn't answer Neil and the undecideds will probably wait until they see Corbyn.

Just wait until Neil gets to Corbyn.  As someone twitted, 'good to hear cheers for Neil's interview of May, then there can be no complaints when he interviews Corbyn'. 

Next interview will be Nuttall - expect him to be destroyed and turned inside out.  Unlike previous occasions when he has been under media pressure, he won't be able to run away and lock himself in a room.

Only Mark Carruthers is even close to Neil if not following his technique on NI media.

BTW May's most trusted are equally as bad on media interviews and her problems with the social care policy are down to poor presentation by Damian Green, her minister for this area and close friend.  A complete wet blanket and poor media performer.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: johnneycool on May 23, 2017, 09:01:25 AM
Andrew Neil is probably the best interviewer on TV or Radio and this is no surprise if you watch the Sunday Politics or Daily Politics.  He regularly spears politicians with such accuracy and tenacity that it is no wonder that the main parties tend to put up willing victims for him instead of the leadership.

May is a poor media performer and cannot handle the cut and thrust of debate as seen by PMQs each week, she had made Corbyn look good on a regular basis.  She is programmed by media training - keep repeating your slogan, answer every question with your prepared statement on the topic, try not to provide any hostage to fortune.

Actually, for her, she did reasonably well with Neil.  She managed to hold her ground, stick to her own script and not make any gaffes.  From a public perspective, her supporters will be happy enough, her enemies will be happy that she couldn't answer Neil and the undecideds will probably wait until they see Corbyn.

Just wait until Neil gets to Corbyn.  As someone twitted, 'good to hear cheers for Neil's interview of May, then there can be no complaints when he interviews Corbyn'. 

Next interview will be Nuttall - expect him to be destroyed and turned inside out.  Unlike previous occasions when he has been under media pressure, he won't be able to run away and lock himself in a room.

Only Mark Carruthers is even close to Neil if not following his technique on NI media.

BTW May's most trusted are equally as bad on media interviews and her problems with the social care policy are down to poor presentation by Damian Green, her minister for this area and close friend.  A complete wet blanket and poor media performer.

That type of cabinet selection in my mind shows how weak May is as a leader. The likes of Green, Amber Rudd, Boris and that gimp they send over here should never been anywhere near a decision making cabinet in government.
Then you've Jeremy Hunt and the likes who seem capable, but in a very Tory way arrogant and ignorant in equal measure.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Avondhu star on May 23, 2017, 11:21:38 AM
May is doing her best to try and lose this election. Seeing her performance on TV with Neill earlier, it's no surprise that she has been kept hidden away. Forced into another U turn on the dementia, it lends yet more credence to the opinion that she is simply making it up as she goes along.

Neill wiped the floor with her that was f**king brilliant. Another two weeks of this as long as Corbyn doesn't do anything stupid and the gap will become worrisome!!

"As long as Corbyn doesnt do anything stupid"
He's probably busy preparing his " We must understand and embrace where ISIS is coming from" speech
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: screenexile on May 23, 2017, 11:23:45 AM
May is doing her best to try and lose this election. Seeing her performance on TV with Neill earlier, it's no surprise that she has been kept hidden away. Forced into another U turn on the dementia, it lends yet more credence to the opinion that she is simply making it up as she goes along.

Neill wiped the floor with her that was f**king brilliant. Another two weeks of this as long as Corbyn doesn't do anything stupid and the gap will become worrisome!!

"As long as Corbyn doesnt do anything stupid"
He's probably busy preparing his " We must understand and embrace where ISIS is coming from" speech

Did you come up with that yourself . . . hilarious ::) ::)
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AQMP on May 23, 2017, 11:26:32 AM
May is doing her best to try and lose this election. Seeing her performance on TV with Neill earlier, it's no surprise that she has been kept hidden away. Forced into another U turn on the dementia, it lends yet more credence to the opinion that she is simply making it up as she goes along.

Neill wiped the floor with her that was f**king brilliant. Another two weeks of this as long as Corbyn doesn't do anything stupid and the gap will become worrisome!!

Right enough it was a bit tougher than The One Show!
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Avondhu star on May 23, 2017, 11:54:09 AM
May is doing her best to try and lose this election. Seeing her performance on TV with Neill earlier, it's no surprise that she has been kept hidden away. Forced into another U turn on the dementia, it lends yet more credence to the opinion that she is simply making it up as she goes along.

Neill wiped the floor with her that was f**king brilliant. Another two weeks of this as long as Corbyn doesn't do anything stupid and the gap will become worrisome!!

"As long as Corbyn doesnt do anything stupid"
He's probably busy preparing his " We must understand and embrace where ISIS is coming from" speech

Did you come up with that yourself . . . hilarious ::) ::)

Thank you. Now go back to the Antiques roadshow
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: yellowcard on May 23, 2017, 01:00:44 PM
The election will take a back seat for a few days after the horrific events in Manchester last night. However any momentum that Corbyn had, has now been broken and May's bumbling U turns have been pushed to the background. The election campaign will turn into one of fear and apprehension now and I expect right wing papers like the Daily Mail, The Sun and The Times to prey on people's insecurities. The tide had begun to go against the Tories but may now be reversed.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Hotrocks on May 23, 2017, 01:07:44 PM
May is doing her best to try and lose this election. Seeing her performance on TV with Neill earlier, it's no surprise that she has been kept hidden away. Forced into another U turn on the dementia, it lends yet more credence to the opinion that she is simply making it up as she goes along.

Neill wiped the floor with her that was f**king brilliant. Another two weeks of this as long as Corbyn doesn't do anything stupid and the gap will become worrisome!!

"As long as Corbyn doesnt do anything stupid"
He's probably busy preparing his " We must understand and embrace where ISIS is coming from" speech

Mummy gone a left the poor lad alone today again.  Don't give him attention.  Uneducated fool
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Avondhu star on May 23, 2017, 01:30:03 PM
May is doing her best to try and lose this election. Seeing her performance on TV with Neill earlier, it's no surprise that she has been kept hidden away. Forced into another U turn on the dementia, it lends yet more credence to the opinion that she is simply making it up as she goes along.

Neill wiped the floor with her that was f**king brilliant. Another two weeks of this as long as Corbyn doesn't do anything stupid and the gap will become worrisome!!

"As long as Corbyn doesnt do anything stupid"
He's probably busy preparing his " We must understand and embrace where ISIS is coming from" speech

Mummy gone a left the poor lad alone today again.  Don't give him attention.  Uneducated fool

Wow you really have done well with your remedial reading classes
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Hotrocks on May 23, 2017, 01:45:59 PM
Feel sorry for you kid.  Attention seeker
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: magpie seanie on May 23, 2017, 01:56:53 PM
Another one to add to the ignore list.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Dire Ear on May 23, 2017, 02:10:40 PM
Don't give him attention.  Uneducated fool..........well done
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Avondhu star on May 23, 2017, 02:17:14 PM
Don't give him attention.  Uneducated fool..........well done
A few more of Corbyn fools dreaming of the Socialist utopia that can't hack the truth
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: armaghniac on May 24, 2017, 06:07:26 PM
Poll for NI seats from Lucidtalk, who have a good record.

SF might pip FST, South Belfast and East Belfast in play, but probably no change. Otherwise much the same.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: ashman on May 24, 2017, 06:39:24 PM
Poll for NI seats from Lucidtalk, who have a good record.

SF might pip FST, South Belfast and East Belfast in play, but probably no change. Otherwise much the same.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Armagh

Is there an information how the samples are agreed for Ni election polls .
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: armaghniac on May 24, 2017, 06:47:49 PM
Is there an information how the samples are agreed for Ni election polls .

Probably something in here https://lucidtalk.co.uk/
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Harold Disgracey on May 25, 2017, 11:01:43 PM
Getting interesting now!

YouGov/Times:

CON 43 (-1)
LAB 38 (+3)
LD 10 (+1)
UKIP 4 (+1)
OTH 6 (-2)
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: armaghniac on May 25, 2017, 11:22:51 PM
Getting interesting now!

YouGov/Times:

CON 43 (-1)
LAB 38 (+3)
LD 10 (+1)
UKIP 4 (+1)
OTH 6 (-2)

These sort of numbers could get interesting if the LDs and Labour engaged in tactical voting.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Carmen Stateside on May 26, 2017, 01:50:42 AM
Do these numbers start bringing the Dup into play ?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 26, 2017, 06:41:46 AM
I don't think the Tories are having a good week

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/25/amber-rudd-denies-cuts-to-police-were-factor-in-manchester-atrocity
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: stew on May 26, 2017, 06:49:41 AM
I don't think the Tories are having a good week

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/25/amber-rudd-denies-cuts-to-police-were-factor-in-manchester-atrocity

The c***ts could not have a bad enough week for me!
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 26, 2017, 07:35:46 AM
Getting interesting now!

YouGov/Times:

CON 43 (-1)
LAB 38 (+3)
LD 10 (+1)
UKIP 4 (+1)
OTH 6 (-2)

These sort of numbers could get interesting if the LDs and Labour engaged in tactical voting.
I think there was a project to target the 50 most vulnerable Tory seats.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: manfromdelmonte on May 26, 2017, 07:51:32 AM
These thing go in cycles, Tories have been there long enough now
I'd say if Labour had a more public friendly leader they would win the GE
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Minder on May 26, 2017, 07:58:48 AM
Getting interesting now!

YouGov/Times:

CON 43 (-1)
LAB 38 (+3)
LD 10 (+1)
UKIP 4 (+1)
OTH 6 (-2)

These sort of numbers could get interesting if the LDs and Labour engaged in tactical voting.
I think there was a project to target the 50 most vulnerable Tory seats.

Really? Corbyn hasn't even been canvassing/campaigning in marginal seats
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 26, 2017, 09:27:56 AM
Getting interesting now!

YouGov/Times:

CON 43 (-1)
LAB 38 (+3)
LD 10 (+1)
UKIP 4 (+1)
OTH 6 (-2)

These sort of numbers could get interesting if the LDs and Labour engaged in tactical voting.
I think there was a project to target the 50 most vulnerable Tory seats.

Really? Corbyn hasn't even been canvassing/campaigning in marginal seats
There were a few articles about it in the Guardian. Where lib dem strongest Labour voters would support. Like FF vote management.
The polls are based on max 2500 people and wouldn't pick this up.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AZOffaly on May 26, 2017, 09:28:48 AM
Getting interesting now!

YouGov/Times:

CON 43 (-1)
LAB 38 (+3)
LD 10 (+1)
UKIP 4 (+1)
OTH 6 (-2)

These sort of numbers could get interesting if the LDs and Labour engaged in tactical voting.

Lads have we not seen a load of times that polls are pretty shit?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 26, 2017, 10:04:29 AM
Sterling is down following the poll. 5 points is equivalent to 26 seats per the FT.

https://www.ft.com/content/9546c88d-a21d-3e76-8a4f-3e51e323ab80

   the sharp narrowing to just a 5 percentage point gap marked the “key” threshold where markets will begin to doubt the probability of a Tory majority, said Jordan Rochester at Nomura.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: johnneycool on May 26, 2017, 10:30:16 AM
These thing go in cycles, Tories have been there long enough now
I'd say if Labour had a more public friendly leader they would win the GE

The thing with Corbyn is if anything he is public friendly but the mainstream media don't like him and try to corner him on things like the other day and his support for the IRA/Terrorists and so forth which he handles reasonably well.
He's not good on Brexit and he's not good at going after May who is there to be taken down if he was more aggressive in his approach to her.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Franko on May 26, 2017, 10:33:48 AM
These thing go in cycles, Tories have been there long enough now
I'd say if Labour had a more public friendly leader they would win the GE

The thing with Corbyn is if anything he is public friendly but the mainstream media don't like him and try to corner him on things like the other day and his support for the IRA/Terrorists and so forth which he handles reasonably well.
He's not good on Brexit and he's not good at going after May who is there to be taken down if he was more aggressive in his approach to her.

Hi does seem to be very weak on Brexit, though I think his non-aggression towards May is a good point.  He talks about the issues and doesn't play the (wo)man.  He comes across as an absolute gentleman and I think he would command respect from liberal Europe in any negotiations.  May has made a laughing stock of herself with her multiple u-turns and 'strong and stable' bullshit rhetoric.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 26, 2017, 10:45:48 AM
Corbyn answers questions openly and he doesn't stick to spin. He is a better communicator than May.
Also I think the Tories have a lot of lightweights.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Minder on May 26, 2017, 10:49:08 AM
Be interesting to see how he communicates with Andrew Neil this evening
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Franko on May 26, 2017, 11:04:50 AM
Be interesting to see how he communicates with Andrew Neil this evening

Will be a massive test for him.  I hope Neil doesn't pull out the Daily Mail's stock lie that Corbyn refused to condemn the IRA bombing in Manchester.

Corbyn realises that a suicide bombing in Manchester and the death of over a million people in the Middle East in Brit backed illegal wars are not unrelated issues.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Minder on May 26, 2017, 11:17:23 AM
Be interesting to see how he communicates with Andrew Neil this evening

Will be a massive test for him.  I hope Neil doesn't pull out the Daily Mail's stock lie that Corbyn refused to condemn the IRA bombing in Manchester.

Corbyn realises that a suicide bombing in Manchester and the death of over a million people in the Middle East in Brit backed illegal wars are not unrelated issues.

Neil is usually fair and can back up what he is asking, he makes mincemeat out of most of them.

I honestly think support for the IRA will be the least of his problems
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: screenexile on May 26, 2017, 11:19:04 AM
As much as I would like to see Labour overturn the Tories it's causing a huge pain in my ass for work with the rate dropping 3.5% in a month!!

Looking forward to Neil's interview tonight!
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Franko on May 26, 2017, 11:51:52 AM
Be interesting to see how he communicates with Andrew Neil this evening

Will be a massive test for him.  I hope Neil doesn't pull out the Daily Mail's stock lie that Corbyn refused to condemn the IRA bombing in Manchester.

Corbyn realises that a suicide bombing in Manchester and the death of over a million people in the Middle East in Brit backed illegal wars are not unrelated issues.

Neil is usually fair and can back up what he is asking, he makes mincemeat out of most of them.

I honestly think support for the IRA will be the least of his problems

What do you think are going to be his issues?  From what I understand Labour's manifesto promises have been fully costed and verified.  Brexit going to catch him out?  He'd have to perform very badly to do worse than that parroting imbecile May.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AQMP on May 26, 2017, 12:04:03 PM
Be interesting to see how he communicates with Andrew Neil this evening

Will be a massive test for him.  I hope Neil doesn't pull out the Daily Mail's stock lie that Corbyn refused to condemn the IRA bombing in Manchester.

Corbyn realises that a suicide bombing in Manchester and the death of over a million people in the Middle East in Brit backed illegal wars are not unrelated issues.

Neil is usually fair and can back up what he is asking, he makes mincemeat out of most of them.

I honestly think support for the IRA will be the least of his problems

What do you think are going to be his issues?  From what I understand Labour's manifesto promises have been fully costed and verified.  Brexit going to catch him out?  He'd have to perform very badly to do worse than that parroting imbecile May.

Institute for Fiscal Studies said this morning that both manifestos are weak on the numbers.  Labour's tax rises won't bring in the £48 mill they predict and the Tories plans are largely uncosted but cannot be delivered without cuts and a reduction in the quality of public services.  Expect this to be the focus of Neill's interview rather than Corbyn's views on the 'RA.  Most people seem to have missed out that he actually did condemn IRA actions.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Denn Forever on May 26, 2017, 12:10:43 PM
But they all seem to be hung than he didn't say IRA actions.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Franko on May 26, 2017, 12:24:22 PM
Be interesting to see how he communicates with Andrew Neil this evening

Will be a massive test for him.  I hope Neil doesn't pull out the Daily Mail's stock lie that Corbyn refused to condemn the IRA bombing in Manchester.

Corbyn realises that a suicide bombing in Manchester and the death of over a million people in the Middle East in Brit backed illegal wars are not unrelated issues.

Neil is usually fair and can back up what he is asking, he makes mincemeat out of most of them.

I honestly think support for the IRA will be the least of his problems

What do you think are going to be his issues?  From what I understand Labour's manifesto promises have been fully costed and verified.  Brexit going to catch him out?  He'd have to perform very badly to do worse than that parroting imbecile May.

Institute for Fiscal Studies said this morning that both manifestos are weak on the numbers.  Labour's tax rises won't bring in the £48 mill they predict and the Tories plans are largely uncosted but cannot be delivered without cuts and a reduction in the quality of public services.  Expect this to be the focus of Neill's interview rather than Corbyn's views on the 'RA.  Most people seem to have missed out that he actually did condemn IRA actions.

Fair enough, I'd have no issues if Neil tied him in knots over something factual.  If he wants to play at that level he'd have to be fit to handle it.

As for the bit in bold, nobody missed it - the Daily Mail & Co fed the lie to the little Englanders and the imbeciles were only too happy to lap it up.  At that stage the propaganda wins and it's too late to produce the facts that show them otherwise as their simple minds are stuck in 'Corbyn loves the 'RA' mode.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AQMP on May 26, 2017, 12:27:27 PM
But they all seem to be hung than he didn't say IRA actions.

Yes, that's true.  His actual quote from the Sky interview was “I condemn all the bombing by both the loyalists and the IRA.”  Make of that what you will.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: magpie seanie on May 26, 2017, 12:39:38 PM
Does anyone realistically think that bullshit about supposedly not condemning the IRA even though he clearly did made anyone who was going to vote Labour change their mind? I don't. If anything it clearly illustrated how incredibly biased most of the media are against Corbyn and might actually have worked in his favour.

Tough interview tonight but Corbyn has the great luxury of consistency down throughout his career so he doesn't have to remember a script. He is what he is for good or bad. Polls have been notoriously inaccurate so I'm trying not to get too excited but if nothing else it has caused panic among Tories which could lead to more gaffes/mistakes. Their campaign has been a shambles so far.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Avondhu star on May 26, 2017, 12:45:41 PM
No point whinging that the media are biased against Corbyn. Most of his parliamentary party are against him.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Franko on May 26, 2017, 01:05:38 PM
Does anyone realistically think that bullshit about supposedly not condemning the IRA even though he clearly did made anyone who was going to vote Labour change their mind? I don't. If anything it clearly illustrated how incredibly biased most of the media are against Corbyn and might actually have worked in his favour.

Tough interview tonight but Corbyn has the great luxury of consistency down throughout his career so he doesn't have to remember a script. He is what he is for good or bad. Polls have been notoriously inaccurate so I'm trying not to get too excited but if nothing else it has caused panic among Tories which could lead to more gaffes/mistakes. Their campaign has been a shambles so far.

Neither do I.  But it's the ones thinking of jumping away from the Torys that I think it will affect.  The working/middle class little england (with a small e) brigade who are beginning to realise that Corbyn will give them their (soft) Brexit but, unlike May, will also stand up for their rights and not sell off the NHS.  There must be thousands of them and I think they could be swayed.  But these people could easily be dissuaded from jumping ship by a media who bombards them with "Corbyn IRA lover" type messages.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 26, 2017, 01:34:29 PM
No point whinging that the media are biased against Corbyn. Most of his parliamentary party are against him.
If he wins they'll change tack
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: yellowcard on May 26, 2017, 01:36:09 PM
Corbyn has benefited from a Tory campaign meltdown. May called the election to increase her mandate and cement her position going into Brexit negotiations. Despite the Tory propaganda in the media, May has made a dogs dinner of this campaign to date. They will still win the election but she has exposed herself to be a very poor leader who is lacking in conviction, and not one you can trust.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: BennyCake on May 26, 2017, 02:20:10 PM
Corbyn has benefited from a Tory campaign meltdown. May called the election to increase her mandate and cement her position going into Brexit negotiations. Despite the Tory propaganda in the media, May has made a dogs dinner of this campaign to date. They will still win the election but she has exposed herself to be a very poor leader who is lacking in conviction, and not one you can trust.

Name one politican you can trust.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: magpie seanie on May 26, 2017, 02:26:14 PM
Corbyn has benefited from a Tory campaign meltdown. May called the election to increase her mandate and cement her position going into Brexit negotiations. Despite the Tory propaganda in the media, May has made a dogs dinner of this campaign to date. They will still win the election but she has exposed herself to be a very poor leader who is lacking in conviction, and not one you can trust.

Name one politican you can trust.


Jeremy Corbyn.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: armaghniac on May 26, 2017, 03:19:03 PM
Corbyn has benefited from a Tory campaign meltdown. May called the election to increase her mandate and cement her position going into Brexit negotiations. Despite the Tory propaganda in the media, May has made a dogs dinner of this campaign to date. They will still win the election but she has exposed herself to be a very poor leader who is lacking in conviction, and not one you can trust.

Name one politican you can trust.

I'm not sure you can trust any of them. But some of them have a long term strategy and fairly consistent policies within that, so you sort of know what you are getting. Jeremy Corbyn might fit in that category, although I probably disagree with him on many matters.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: magpie seanie on May 26, 2017, 05:05:49 PM
He's consistent alright and maybe that's what some people want.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 26, 2017, 05:19:00 PM
Be interesting to see how he communicates with Andrew Neil this evening

Will be a massive test for him.  I hope Neil doesn't pull out the Daily Mail's stock lie that Corbyn refused to condemn the IRA bombing in Manchester.

Corbyn realises that a suicide bombing in Manchester and the death of over a million people in the Middle East in Brit backed illegal wars are not unrelated issues.

Neil is usually fair and can back up what he is asking, he makes mincemeat out of most of them.

I honestly think support for the IRA will be the least of his problems

What do you think are going to be his issues?  From what I understand Labour's manifesto promises have been fully costed and verified.  Brexit going to catch him out?  He'd have to perform very badly to do worse than that parroting imbecile May.

Until today when the IFS came out to say both parties have failed to make manifesto costings that are in any way realistic.

Labour is loading tax onto those earning more than £80K who are a tiny percentage of the earning population, about 1.5 million.  The result will be to lower the intake as proven time after time because many will evade or top earners will move on. Also by taxing business to such an extent, the cost will be passed on to the public, prices will rise, pension investments will fall and jobs will be lost as business moves to low cost economies elsewhere in EU.  IFS reckon that labour are greatly overestimating the intake from tax changes.

Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 26, 2017, 05:20:34 PM
But they all seem to be hung than he didn't say IRA actions.

Neil was clear on his shows that Corbyn had made a condemnation.  But he is easily speared on being asked about prosecution of veterans that he has run away from in the last two weeks.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 26, 2017, 05:41:02 PM
Corbyn's problem is that he is part of the North London liberal elite and his main supporters are to be found in the same area.

Jeremy Corby: Islington North
John McDonnell: Hayes and Harlington
Diane Abbot: Hackney North and Stoke Newington
Emily Thornton:  Islington South and Finsbury
Keir Starmer: Holborn and St Pancras
Barry Gardiner: Brent North
Baroness Chakrabarti of Kennington

Very hard for working class Northerners to have much in common with them and especially the UKIP voters wanting Brexit.

Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: armaghniac on May 26, 2017, 05:52:41 PM
Labour is loading tax onto those earning more than £80K who are a tiny percentage of the earning population, about 1.5 million.  The result will be to lower the intake as proven time after time because many will evade or top earners will move on. Also by taxing business to such an extent, the cost will be passed on to the public, prices will rise, pension investments will fall and jobs will be lost as business moves to low cost economies elsewhere in EU.  IFS reckon that labour are greatly overestimating the intake from tax changes.

Please copy this to Sinn Féin, 44 Parnell Square, Dublin 1.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: yellowcard on May 26, 2017, 06:02:15 PM
Corbyn has benefited from a Tory campaign meltdown. May called the election to increase her mandate and cement her position going into Brexit negotiations. Despite the Tory propaganda in the media, May has made a dogs dinner of this campaign to date. They will still win the election but she has exposed herself to be a very poor leader who is lacking in conviction, and not one you can trust.

Name one politican you can trust.

When it comes to it, I don't trust any of them but just varying degree's among all of them. May would be well down that list. You can definitely pick holes in Corbyn's economic policies but I think he is genuine in his belief's and principles and is not in it purely for power. I'd have him over May any day of the week. 
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Minder on May 26, 2017, 06:13:38 PM
Corbyn has benefited from a Tory campaign meltdown. May called the election to increase her mandate and cement her position going into Brexit negotiations. Despite the Tory propaganda in the media, May has made a dogs dinner of this campaign to date. They will still win the election but she has exposed herself to be a very poor leader who is lacking in conviction, and not one you can trust.

Name one politican you can trust.

When it comes to it, I don't trust any of them but just varying degree's among all of them. May would be well down that list. You can definitely pick holes in Corbyn's economic policies but I think he is genuine in his belief's and principles and is not in it purely for power. I'd have him over May any day of the week.

I think Corbyn is in it purely for power, of the Labour Party anyway. I remember reading something a few weeks ago that if his defeat was not as severe as Milibands he would argue that he should be allowed to stay as leader & that he was more concerned with safe Labour seats, in that he wanted as many in those seats to come out and vote to increase the overall number voting Labour.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 26, 2017, 06:17:13 PM
Corbyn's problem is that he is part of the North London liberal elite and his main supporters are to be found in the same area.

Jeremy Corby: Islington North
John McDonnell: Hayes and Harlington
Diane Abbot: Hackney North and Stoke Newington
Emily Thornton:  Islington South and Finsbury
Keir Starmer: Holborn and St Pancras
Barry Gardiner: Brent North
Baroness Chakrabarti of Kennington

Very hard for working class Northerners to have much in common with them and especially the UKIP voters wanting Brexit.
Corbyn is pro demand and pro payrises.  Northern voters like payrises which can buy whippets and brown ale.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 26, 2017, 06:29:35 PM
Corbyn has benefited from a Tory campaign meltdown. May called the election to increase her mandate and cement her position going into Brexit negotiations. Despite the Tory propaganda in the media, May has made a dogs dinner of this campaign to date. They will still win the election but she has exposed herself to be a very poor leader who is lacking in conviction, and not one you can trust.

Name one politican you can trust.

When it comes to it, I don't trust any of them but just varying degree's among all of them. May would be well down that list. You can definitely pick holes in Corbyn's economic policies but I think he is genuine in his belief's and principles and is not in it purely for power. I'd have him over May any day of the week.

I think Corbyn is in it purely for power, of the Labour Party anyway. I remember reading something a few weeks ago that if his defeat was not as severe as Milibands he would argue that he should be allowed to stay as leader & that he was more concerned with safe Labour seats, in that he wanted as many in those seats to come out and vote to increase the overall number voting Labour.

The problem is that Corbyn is largely on his own in campaigning across the UK. His leadership group and shadow cabinet are all campaigning in their own constituencies.

You are right that he, McDonnell and Milne believe that a vote share equal to or greater than that achieved by Milliband will ensure he will not be forced into immediate resignation.  The target is to survive to change the threshold of MPs required to nominate a future leader to a level that will ensure that a Corbynite is put forward for coronation by the membership.  This will require a Labour conference with Corbyn still in the hot seat.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: BennyCake on May 26, 2017, 06:49:36 PM
Corbyn might mean well with fairer pay, tax etc, but ultimately it won't be him running Britain. The media, bankers and their cronies do. Corbyn won't be PM because those same people wouldn't be able to screw the country and the lower classes.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 26, 2017, 07:15:24 PM
Neil going at Corbyn's record with SF/IRA. Quoting Sean O'Callaghan as saying he had nothing to do with peace process and then quoted Seamus Mallon saying that Corbyn had never anything to do with peace process but supported IRA.

Spending quite a while on Corbyn & IRA support.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Hotrocks on May 26, 2017, 07:18:07 PM
Embarrassing stuff from Andrew Neil tonight.  15 mins on the IRA ;D
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 26, 2017, 07:20:01 PM
Neil quotes that no record can be found of Corbyn condemning a single IRA atrocity.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 26, 2017, 07:23:09 PM
Corbyn being speared on his quotation on NATO - a dangerous frankenstein organisation.

Not able to say he supports renewal Trident.

IFS being quoted to Corbyn - tax rises will not work.  Highest ever peacetime level of tax overall under Corbyn govt. Corbyn trying to say govt bond is not borrowing.

Interview was a clear attack on Corbyn's record, character, reputation and suitability of PM.

Corbyn a better TV performer than May.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 26, 2017, 08:04:34 PM
Neil was being praised for giving May a hammering last week. You can't have it every road lads.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 26, 2017, 08:11:11 PM
Neil was being praised for giving May a hammering last week. You can't have it every road lads.

Not saying Neil did not do well just pointing out that he took a line which exposed Corbyn's character and suitability to lead UK govt which has been the main thrust of the media.  To go for the top job, he has to expect that his character, record and suitability will be tested in a different way from a sitting PM who has a long record in govt.

He certainly exposed what will be seen by the English audience as his major flaws in relation to terrorism (through his record of support for the IRA), defence of the nation (NATO & Trident) and economy (IFS pointing out he will not collect 58bn through tax and will be borrowing 25bn to buy back utilities).
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Hotrocks on May 26, 2017, 08:14:35 PM
Why did he not ask him about what his plans for health and education if he becomes prime minister?  Surely thats what the viewers wanted to hear answered.  Seemed very strange that ex tory Neil would spend most the program going into Corbyns past
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Wildweasel74 on May 26, 2017, 08:16:07 PM
Why excately does the uk need trident nuclear subs anyway? hardly going to stop terrorism bombers, any aint going to calf the Russians with their nuclear arsenal
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: screenexile on May 26, 2017, 08:43:31 PM
Why did he not ask him about what his plans for health and education if he becomes prime minister?  Surely thats what the viewers wanted to hear answered.  Seemed very strange that ex tory Neil would spend most the program going into Corbyns past

As has been said before he went after Teresa May's weaknesses and did the same with Corbyn.

Just because Labour have gained ground the last few weeks doesn't change Corbyn's lack of leadership which we've known about for a long time. These guys are going to be leaders of the Country so it's only fair we see the worst parts of them and make a decision.

Pretty sure I'd rather Corbyn's manifesto rather than the Tories!!
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Minder on May 26, 2017, 09:35:49 PM
Why did he not ask him about what his plans for health and education if he becomes prime minister?  Surely thats what the viewers wanted to hear answered.  Seemed very strange that ex tory Neil would spend most the program going into Corbyns past

As has been said before he went after Teresa May's weaknesses and did the same with Corbyn.

Just because Labour have gained ground the last few weeks doesn't change Corbyn's lack of leadership which we've known about for a long time. These guys are going to be leaders of the Country so it's only fair we see the worst parts of them and make a decision.

Pretty sure I'd rather Corbyn's manifesto rather than the Tories!!

So would I, until it has to be paid for !
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: magpie seanie on May 27, 2017, 01:28:46 AM
There's loads of money. It'll get paid for.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: SLIGONIAN on May 27, 2017, 03:11:44 AM
Why did he not ask him about what his plans for health and education if he becomes prime minister?  Surely thats what the viewers wanted to hear answered.  Seemed very strange that ex tory Neil would spend most the program going into Corbyns past

As has been said before he went after Teresa May's weaknesses and did the same with Corbyn.

Just because Labour have gained ground the last few weeks doesn't change Corbyn's lack of leadership which we've known about for a long time. These guys are going to be leaders of the Country so it's only fair we see the worst parts of them and make a decision.

Pretty sure I'd rather Corbyn's manifesto rather than the Tories!!

So would I, until it has to be paid for !
Corbyns lack of  leadership is main stream media myth, i went to one of his rallies and he was inspiring, he doesnt get close to fair coverage, his main issue he has had is the right wing blairities in the party trying to get rid of him for a pro establishment candidate, corbyn is the type of leader who creates more leaders and doesn't really dictate, look at what they thrown at him, hes still standing, quite extroadinary the resolve he has, they have tried to break him, June 8th will be fascinating but we need to young to vote

btw the manifesto is costed and the super rich are going to pay for it,  ;) remember the establishment always find money for war ;)
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 27, 2017, 08:40:05 AM
Corbyn's speech at Tranmere Rovers was superb. "This election is about you".
The Telegraph and the Daily Mail betray their own voters.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 27, 2017, 09:03:05 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/27/libya-fallout-theresa-may-failed-terror
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 27, 2017, 11:13:50 AM
Why did he not ask him about what his plans for health and education if he becomes prime minister?  Surely thats what the viewers wanted to hear answered.  Seemed very strange that ex tory Neil would spend most the program going into Corbyns past

As has been said before he went after Teresa May's weaknesses and did the same with Corbyn.

Just because Labour have gained ground the last few weeks doesn't change Corbyn's lack of leadership which we've known about for a long time. These guys are going to be leaders of the Country so it's only fair we see the worst parts of them and make a decision.

Pretty sure I'd rather Corbyn's manifesto rather than the Tories!!

So would I, until it has to be paid for !
Corbyns lack of  leadership is main stream media myth, i went to one of his rallies and he was inspiring, he doesnt get close to fair coverage, his main issue he has had is the right wing blairities in the party trying to get rid of him for a pro establishment candidate, corbyn is the type of leader who creates more leaders and doesn't really dictate, look at what they thrown at him, hes still standing, quite extroadinary the resolve he has, they have tried to break him, June 8th will be fascinating but we need to young to vote

btw the manifesto is costed and the super rich are going to pay for it,  ;) remember the establishment always find money for war ;)

The issue of Corbyn is not leadership, it is competence.  That is the concern of the majority of the PLP, he has proven virtually incapable of running his own office never mind a government.  This he shares with Trump.  While Trump has Bannon and Kushner, Corbyn has Milne and O'Donnell with McCloskey in the background.  In terms of him creating leaders look at Thornton, Abbot, Gardiner and Burgon, never mind the others promoted to positions when the competent have stood back to let everyone see the incompetence of the whole front bench.  He has failed to find enough to fill all the positions in his shadow cabinet.

BTW the young are full of good intentions but they don't vote.  In the referendum where the result affected the young most, they failed to turn out to vote, so why will they come out now. 

The manifesto is not properly costed as declared by the independent IFS, he won't raise the taxes he will layer onto the 5% who are already paying the 80% of the tax take and the companies will move away or pass the extra tax on to public as higher charges if they stay in the country. 

The English public will vote for competence of Conservatives even if it means harder times over the incompetence of Corbyn and those who surround him.

If you think the media has been on to him to date, just watch the annihilation of him and his cronies on a daily basis by the right wing media outlets who provide 85% of the output in England.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Rossfan on May 27, 2017, 11:50:19 AM
Do you really think Mayhem, Johnson etc are competent?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Minder on May 27, 2017, 12:07:24 PM
Do you really think Mayhem, Johnson etc are competent?

One of Corbyns aides told MPs canvassing not to mention Corbyn when on the doorstep as he was too toxic, that's almost unheard of I would have thought
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: armaghniac on May 27, 2017, 01:22:57 PM
The issue of Corbyn is not leadership, it is competence.  That is the concern of the majority of the PLP, he has proven virtually incapable of running his own office never mind a government.  This he shares with Trump.  While Trump has Bannon and Kushner, Corbyn has Milne and O'Donnell with McCloskey in the background.  In terms of him creating leaders look at Thornton, Abbot, Gardiner and Burgon, never mind the others promoted to positions when the competent have stood back to let everyone see the incompetence of the whole front bench.  He has failed to find enough to fill all the positions in his shadow cabinet.

BTW the young are full of good intentions but they don't vote.  In the referendum where the result affected the young most, they failed to turn out to vote, so why will they come out now. 

The manifesto is not properly costed as declared by the independent IFS, he won't raise the taxes he will layer onto the 5% who are already paying the 80% of the tax take and the companies will move away or pass the extra tax on to public as higher charges if they stay in the country. 

The English public will vote for competence of Conservatives even if it means harder times over the incompetence of Corbyn and those who surround him.

If you think the media has been on to him to date, just watch the annihilation of him and his cronies on a daily basis by the right wing media outlets who provide 85% of the output in England.

Spot on. Unfortunately, left wing parties are often more interested in talking about the principle of providing better services than actually delivering them.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 27, 2017, 01:29:12 PM
The top 1% own 50% of everything. Median earnings are 27k.
I have no sympathy for the top 5%.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Avondhu star on May 27, 2017, 03:05:21 PM
Corbyn's speech at Tranmere Rovers was superb. "This election is about you".
The Telegraph and the Daily Mail betray their own voters.


Inspiring stuff. Did he say that he believes that the youth are our future?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Avondhu star on May 27, 2017, 03:06:45 PM
The top 1% own 50% of everything. Median earnings are 27k.
I have no sympathy for the top 5%.

 I have no doubt that you dont feature in their sympathy list either
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Rossfan on May 27, 2017, 03:43:54 PM
And neither do you bucko.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Avondhu star on May 27, 2017, 04:25:56 PM
And neither do you bucko.
And thats why I get out and make my own way rather than expect society to fund me
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 27, 2017, 05:03:19 PM
The top 1% own 50% of everything. Median earnings are 27k.
I have no sympathy for the top 5%.

And yet for those of us governed by the UK government we depend on the 5% of earners to pay for the bulk of all public services so we need to protect the golden goose and not bleed it dry or drive it away.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Rossfan on May 27, 2017, 05:25:45 PM
And neither do you bucko.
And thats why I get out and make my own way rather than expect society to fund me
I realise you're a WUM but did you ever thank the Lord for your good health and ability to do so?
Or are the disabled, sick , mentally "challenged" etc responsible for their conditions and should be told to eff off for themselves? Or "euthanised" as some so called modern folk describe murder of such people.
Do you want to abolish public schools and hospitals?
Do you want to go back to the 1840s?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Avondhu star on May 27, 2017, 07:50:35 PM
And neither do you bucko.
And thats why I get out and make my own way rather than expect society to fund me
I realise you're a WUM but did you ever thank the Lord for your good health and ability to do so?
Or are the disabled, sick , mentally "challenged" etc responsible for their conditions and should be told to eff off for themselves? Or "euthanised" as some so called modern folk describe murder of such people.
Do you want to abolish public schools and hospitals?
Do you want to go back to the 1840s?

Have you overdone it on the scrumpy?

It's the wasters who sponge off the rest of us that I am against. Their welfare payments should be used to help the sick and handicapped. You will never see anything from me criticising such people

p.s. Who is this Lord you refer to?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 27, 2017, 08:58:39 PM
The top 1% own 50% of everything. Median earnings are 27k.
I have no sympathy for the top 5%.

And yet for those of us governed by the UK government we depend on the 5% of earners to pay for the bulk of all public services so we need to protect the golden goose and not bleed it dry or drive it away.
Labour''s share of income has been falling since 1980. The rich pay because they have most of the money . The golden goose needs to have her eggs shared around
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 27, 2017, 10:32:20 PM
And so the onslaught begins.........

https://youtu.be/99jclQAOT7I (https://youtu.be/99jclQAOT7I)
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: sid waddell on May 27, 2017, 11:00:50 PM

The issue of Corbyn is not leadership, it is competence. 
The word Tory and the word competence are mutually exclusive.

Taking Britain out of the EU
No Brexit plan and likely WTO tariffs on exports
Cutting over 20,000 police and unable to protect Britain against terrorist attacks
Utterly clueless on social care
20 billion out on the cost of High Speed 2 rail
Hundreds of millions out on the cost of free breakfasts

A Prime Minister who has nothing other than a slogan?

A front bench made up of Johnson, Hammond, Rudd, Fallon, Leadsom, Hunt, Davis and Fox etc.?

You are kidding me when you talk about competence, right?

Replace the aforementioned with a load of wheelie bins and you'd get more competence out of them.

Labour's shadow cabinet such as McDonnell, Gardiner, Thornberry, Rayner, Long-Bailey etc. have been infinitely more impressive by comparison, and Corbyn is miles ahead of May in terms of how he has performed.

And that's even with Diane Abbott, who really doesn't look so bad when you compare her to her direct Tory equivalent, the hapless Amber Rudd.



Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Minder on May 27, 2017, 11:07:11 PM
Thornberry? Are you smoking something ?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: sid waddell on May 27, 2017, 11:20:58 PM
Thornberry? Are you smoking something ?
She's miles ahead of Johnson. Burned Fallon beautifully on Andrew Marr a couple of weeks ago, too.

Unlike Johnson, she gives the impression of actually thinking before and while she's speaking.

So yes, I'd take her any day ahead of what the Tories have to offer.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: ziggysego on May 27, 2017, 11:52:41 PM
And neither do you bucko.
And thats why I get out and make my own way rather than expect society to fund me

Ok, I try and make a point of staying out of political threads, but f**k it.

I have a disability and I work. Unfortunately I do not work full time hours. Not because I don't want to, believe me, I'd love to work full time hours. No, because I am physically unable to.

Without benefits, I would be unable to survive on my own and have a sense of reasonable independence. So for you to sit on that high horse of yours.... f**k right off.

If I could, I'd vote Labour in this General Election to get rid of the Tories. I fear for my future, my independence, my health and my world under another 5 years of Theresa May and her like.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 27, 2017, 11:58:33 PM
Ziggy you'd give thousands of people in the North a red face as there are generations of people living entirely off benefits when they are entirely capable of working. Depending on what red top you believe, Labour are the party of the scroungers and the Tories wany to remove benefits from everyone. The ideal solution sits in the middle - get the spongers out to work and use the money to give the genuine claimants more money where they can survive above the breadline.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 28, 2017, 09:12:50 AM

The issue of Corbyn is not leadership, it is competence. 
The word Tory and the word competence are mutually exclusive.

Taking Britain out of the EU
No Brexit plan and likely WTO tariffs on exports
Cutting over 20,000 police and unable to protect Britain against terrorist attacks
Utterly clueless on social care
20 billion out on the cost of High Speed 2 rail
Hundreds of millions out on the cost of free breakfasts

A Prime Minister who has nothing other than a slogan?

A front bench made up of Johnson, Hammond, Rudd, Fallon, Leadsom, Hunt, Davis and Fox etc.?

You are kidding me when you talk about competence, right?

Replace the aforementioned with a load of wheelie bins and you'd get more competence out of them.

Labour's shadow cabinet such as McDonnell, Gardiner, Thornberry, Rayner, Long-Bailey etc. have been infinitely more impressive by comparison, and Corbyn is miles ahead of May in terms of how he has performed.

And that's even with Diane Abbott, who really doesn't look so bad when you compare her to her direct Tory equivalent, the hapless Amber Rudd.
Half of the Tory front bench voted Remain. They don't have any guts.
The economy is an absolute shambles. Osborne promised to get the deficit down to zero by 2015. Latest estimate is 2025.
The notion of competence is a myth invented by the Tory press. Keep saying it enough times and people believe it.

They refuse to put a cost on an exit without a deal. Just get the Telegraph and Daily Mail  to repeat that it is rational. They are afraid of the papers and their owners.

Strong and stable is another myth. May doesn't understand the financial side of things. She's a control freak. She makes a decision and if the people don't like it she flip flops.

She did it on self employed national insurance and she did it on social care. Both of these involved dumping costs on ordinary  people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElLpKewnxp4
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 28, 2017, 09:36:27 AM
Diane Abbott shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the Andrew Marr Show. Labour should be hiding her away from the voting public.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 28, 2017, 09:39:30 AM
Ziggy you'd give thousands of people in the North a red face as there are generations of people living entirely off benefits when they are entirely capable of working. Depending on what red top you believe, Labour are the party of the scroungers and the Tories wany to remove benefits from everyone. The ideal solution sits in the middle - get the spongers out to work and use the money to give the genuine claimants more money where they can survive above the breadline.
What kind of jobs, Tony? And who is going to create them?
I read somewhere that 60% of people in money trouble  have jobs. And the Uk government subsidises low wages for the benefit of companies.

Inflation will make that worse.

the UK needs a new economic model 
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 28, 2017, 09:43:57 AM

The issue of Corbyn is not leadership, it is competence. 
The word Tory and the word competence are mutually exclusive.

Taking Britain out of the EU
No Brexit plan and likely WTO tariffs on exports
Cutting over 20,000 police and unable to protect Britain against terrorist attacks
Utterly clueless on social care
20 billion out on the cost of High Speed 2 rail
Hundreds of millions out on the cost of free breakfasts

A Prime Minister who has nothing other than a slogan?

A front bench made up of Johnson, Hammond, Rudd, Fallon, Leadsom, Hunt, Davis and Fox etc.?

You are kidding me when you talk about competence, right?

Replace the aforementioned with a load of wheelie bins and you'd get more competence out of them.

Labour's shadow cabinet such as McDonnell, Gardiner, Thornberry, Rayner, Long-Bailey etc. have been infinitely more impressive by comparison, and Corbyn is miles ahead of May in terms of how he has performed.

And that's even with Diane Abbott, who really doesn't look so bad when you compare her to her direct Tory equivalent, the hapless Amber Rudd.

In terms of competence, everything is relative which you appear to accept when you took to your comparisons.  However, your objectivity and hatred of Tories prevents you from reasoned argument.  While I do not support the Tory government in either its policies or actions, you are incorrect in the points you have raised and are following election propaganda on both sides"

Quote
Taking Britain out of the EU
This was the decision of the people in the UK referendum and not a Tory action, it supported by Labour and a long term objective of Corbyn.

Quote
No Brexit plan and likely WTO tariffs on exports
The negotiations have not begun, this is an opening gambit to let EU officials know that UK will take a nuclear option which would severely damage EU countries who trade with UK.  It will never happen but is similar to the MAD policy used since the second world war to prevent use of nuclear weapons.  WTO rates would apply to every German, Spanish, French, etc car that is currently sold to UK.  VW and MB would collapse overnight if WTO tariffs were to result from UK leaving Europe and cars are only the tip of the iceberg.

Quote
Cutting over 20,000 police and unable to protect Britain against terrorist attacks
Bobbies on the street are a PR exercise and will never prevent terrorism and not even crime.  Terrorism is defeated through intelligence.  Tories immediately increased spending on intelligence attack on terrorism on succeeding Labour into power by £1bn and in 2015 increased it from £11.7bn to £15.1bn.  The numbers employed by MI5, MI6 and GCHQ have increased dramatically under the Tories.

Quote
Utterly clueless on social care
Social care must be paid for by someone either through higher income taxes or a tax on wealth.  The Tory proposal was not perfect and only changed to protect the richest older people needing social care.  It only applies to England.  If older people have have wealth in their houses which can be used to pay for their care after they die and still leave at least £100K for their families then that is a good tax.  It is a wealth tax which Labour wants.  Currently, you lose your house before you die and lose all bar £23k.  How is that not an improvement.  Where relatives are willing to care for their own then the cost of social care will fall and more will be left for them. 

Quote
20 billion out on the cost of High Speed 2 rail
HS2 is supported by all parties and all parties want it extended to other cities in the North.

Quote
Hundreds of millions out on the cost of free breakfasts
To pay for breakfast for children they are removing free meals for all primary children in England introduced by Liberals.  Currently, all children in primary school regardless of need or parental income get free meals. This cannot be right.  Breakfast is probably a cheaper but more effective use of funding but remember it is not provided centrally, it is English local government that pays for free meals and will pay for these breakfasts. None of this applies to the regional areas of NI, Scotland or Wales.

Quote
A Prime Minister who has nothing other than a slogan?

So stealing a line from a Star Trek movie,  The Wrath of Khan (1982), in which Spock says, “Logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few”  and continually saying "for the many and not the few" is not Corbyn and co having just a slogan.

It's an election, you get a few phases and make them part of the public consciousness to get them to begin to accept your side of the argument.  Have you looked at advertising and slogans/catchphrases?

Quote
Labour's shadow cabinet such as McDonnell, Gardiner, Thornberry, Rayner, Long-Bailey etc. have been infinitely more impressive by comparison

I think you need a reality check, the shadow cabinet is a scraping of the bottom of the Labour barrel.  None have any government experience and you only have to look at Trump to see how well that works.  Have you seen them in operation on TV etc,?

Quote
Corbyn is miles ahead of May in terms of how he has performed.

God help us if a PM is chosen on the basis of being a good media performer.  Oh yes, Tony Blair, David Cameron, etc, well that worked well.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 28, 2017, 09:56:37 AM
And so the onslaught begins.........

https://youtu.be/99jclQAOT7I (https://youtu.be/99jclQAOT7I)


   https://www.ft.com/content/42cabb04-4203-11e7-9d56-25f963e998b2

   Mr Bettammer says he and other secularist campaigners tried to warn the British ambassador to Libya at the time about the number of Britons and their radical views but were rebuffed. The UK, he says, wanted to encourage them instead because it viewed the Islamist groups as a more viable anti-Gaddafi alternative to native secularists.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 28, 2017, 10:00:48 AM
Irvine Welsh at 2:20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jc3vTUzGMYw
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 28, 2017, 10:05:02 AM
Abbot being speared by Marr and he is hardly the sharpest.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Minder on May 28, 2017, 10:12:42 AM
Abbot being speared by Marr and he is hardly the sharpest.

Just saw this tweet from Tim Shipman, political editor of Sunday Times -

"Has a less qualified individual ever been put forward for one of the four great offices of state than Diane Abbott?"

Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 28, 2017, 10:35:45 AM
Abbot being speared by Marr and he is hardly the sharpest.

Just saw this tweet from Tim Shipman, political editor of Sunday Times -

"Has a less qualified individual ever been put forward for one of the four great offices of state than Diane Abbott?"
George Osborne
Norman Lamont
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 28, 2017, 10:37:37 AM
Corbyn at 11:47
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_MvJm-dAd8

He is more comfortable talking to people than May is

The Tories have an awful problem with their economic ideas

Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Minder on May 28, 2017, 12:09:17 PM
Corbyn at 11:47
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_MvJm-dAd8

He is more comfortable talking to people than May is

The Tories have an awful problem with their economic ideas

Like unemployment being at lowest rate for 40yrs? That's enough to get you re-elected
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 28, 2017, 12:21:09 PM
Corbyn at 11:47
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_MvJm-dAd8

He is more comfortable talking to people than May is

The Tories have an awful problem with their economic ideas

Like unemployment being at lowest rate for 40yrs? That's enough to get you re-elected
I don't agree. Wages are 15% lower than in 2008. Most of the new jobs are minimum wage or gig. People are not stupid.
The Tories have tried to load costs onto the people via National Insurance and Social Care and been forced into U turns
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: playwiththewind1st on May 28, 2017, 01:16:39 PM
Most people in work are less well off. 1%, or less, pay rises over many years. Pension contributions have been increased & will produce inferior benefits up the line. Contracted out National Insurance was abolished, leading to increased contributions. With inflation now rampant again, very few are going to do well out of all this, it's easy to see.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Hardy on May 28, 2017, 01:47:59 PM
You would think that at this stage, after 30+ years of wage stagnation and the diversion of profits to capital instead of incomes, economists, policy makers and even the 1% themselves would have concluded that, in order for growth to resume, people have to be able to afford to buy stuff.

They continually turn to the mass of the population for bailouts when the cycle dips. That's mainly, of course, because they can, but also because they (and we) understand that only the mass of the population has the economic ... well, mass to fund recovery. They continue to fail to understand that this fact applies also to funding growth - both growth and recovery are impossible without the mass of the population having buying power.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Avondhu star on May 28, 2017, 01:50:17 PM
Most people in work are less well off. 1%, or less, pay rises over many years. Pension contributions have been increased & will produce inferior benefits up the line. Contracted out National Insurance was abolished, leading to increased contributions. With inflation now rampant again, very few are going to do well out of all this, it's easy to see.

What do you expect? Britain is competing with low wage economies in the Far East and following Brexit will need to find new markets for their over priced  goods. It wasnt all Tories that voted for Brexit. Some of the highest votes for it were in staunch Labour areas. Turkeys voting for Christmas comes to mind
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: playwiththewind1st on May 28, 2017, 02:00:12 PM
It's highly possible that they weren't taking economic factors or their own prospects of prosperity, or otherwise, into account, when they were voting. If Labour areas voted for Brexit, then the one primary factor that springs to mind was "uncontrolled immigration" as they would have viewed it.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 28, 2017, 02:12:46 PM
Most people in work are less well off. 1%, or less, pay rises over many years. Pension contributions have been increased & will produce inferior benefits up the line. Contracted out National Insurance was abolished, leading to increased contributions. With inflation now rampant again, very few are going to do well out of all this, it's easy to see.

What do you expect? Britain is competing with low wage economies in the Far East and following Brexit will need to find new markets for their over priced  goods. It wasnt all Tories that voted for Brexit. Some of the highest votes for it were in staunch Labour areas. Turkeys voting for Christmas comes to mind
People were lied to. I haven't seen the NHS getting £350m a week
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: armaghniac on May 28, 2017, 02:13:19 PM
The Labour areas with high Brexit votes had feck all immigration in most cases, as there wasn't much reason to move there.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: BennyCake on May 28, 2017, 02:33:10 PM
Most people in work are less well off. 1%, or less, pay rises over many years. Pension contributions have been increased & will produce inferior benefits up the line. Contracted out National Insurance was abolished, leading to increased contributions. With inflation now rampant again, very few are going to do well out of all this, it's easy to see.

What do you expect? Britain is competing with low wage economies in the Far East and following Brexit will need to find new markets for their over priced  goods. It wasnt all Tories that voted for Brexit. Some of the highest votes for it were in staunch Labour areas. Turkeys voting for Christmas comes to mind
People were lied to. I haven't seen the NHS getting £350m a week

People are lied to everyday. But it's only fake news when a result goes against the elitist agenda.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: armaghniac on May 28, 2017, 02:42:10 PM
Goes against common sense, more like.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: BennyCake on May 28, 2017, 02:46:43 PM
Goes against common sense, more like.

Says who? The media? The fact is we don't know what the consequences or benefits of Brexit are yet. Either way, the ordinary Joe wouldn't have come out of it good, anyway.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: armaghniac on May 28, 2017, 03:12:59 PM
If we don't what the benefits of Brexit are, why is anyone bothering with it?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: BennyCake on May 28, 2017, 03:48:26 PM
If we don't what the benefits of Brexit are, why is anyone bothering with it?

Well, joining the EU had little benefits for ordinary folk. Fishing, manufacturing, influx of cheap labour, strain on the services/nhs/housing etc has screwed the place. That's why people voted out.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Avondhu star on May 28, 2017, 04:00:55 PM
If we don't what the benefits of Brexit are, why is anyone bothering with it?

Well, joining the EU had little benefits for ordinary folk. Fishing, manufacturing, influx of cheap labour, strain on the services/nhs/housing etc has screwed the place. That's why people voted out.
Britain exports over 220 billion to the EU which creates and maintains British jobs. They also had their own cosy deals with New Zealand Australia and the other Commonwealth countries.
British steel and British coal were completely inefficient and uneconomical. They were going to go whether mem bers of the EU or not.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: armaghniac on May 28, 2017, 04:09:43 PM
Well, joining the EU had little benefits for ordinary folk. Fishing, manufacturing, influx of cheap labour, strain on the services/nhs/housing etc has screwed the place. That's why people voted out.

Fishing concerns a negligible part of the population and unlimited fishing had to be restricted because of stock depletion anyway. One man's influx of labour is another man's opportunity throughout Europe. The strain in the NHS reflects the failure of the British government to invest in it, not the EU and it is the people of Britain who vote for that government.  Britain did very well in the EU, compared to the period before it joined, but eaten bread is soon forgotten.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 28, 2017, 04:26:00 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/may/28/far-from-strong-and-stable-mays-economic-plan-is-weak-and-unstable

The idea was to keep the focus on the need to have a “strong” prime minister to deliver Brexit and – as far as possible – divert attention from the government’s less than impressive economic record. When the economy did move centre stage, the plan was to brand Labour as the party of reckless borrowing and ideologically-driven nationalisation.
In the first couple of weeks of the campaign, the May strategy was a storming success. The Conservatives were streets ahead in the opinion polls. There was talk of a landslide that would see the Tories beat Labour in Wales.
But as the weeks have gone by, Labour has done better. Corbyn is better on the stump than May. The prime minister’s rapid U-turn has raised doubts about whether she will be Mrs T redux in the Brexit negotiations. Finally, austerity fatigue and a leftward shift in public opinion on issues such as inequality and nationalisation, meant Labour won the battle of the manifestos.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 28, 2017, 04:35:56 PM
This is very good. The UK has a load of structural problems that you won't read about in the Sun or the Daily Mail.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/may/21/forget-brexit-the-real-challenge-is-creating-enough-wealth-for-an-ageing-population
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: BennyCake on May 28, 2017, 04:54:14 PM
Well, joining the EU had little benefits for ordinary folk. Fishing, manufacturing, influx of cheap labour, strain on the services/nhs/housing etc has screwed the place. That's why people voted out.

Fishing concerns a negligible part of the population and unlimited fishing had to be restricted because of stock depletion anyway. One man's influx of labour is another man's opportunity throughout Europe. The strain in the NHS reflects the failure of the British government to invest in it, not the EU and it is the people of Britain who vote for that government.  Britain did very well in the EU, compared to the period before it joined, but eaten bread is soon forgotten.

Fishing is a natural resource of a country, and should create wealth, but that disappeared when joining the EU and trawlers from all over Europe deplete the stocks, while small fishermen are the ones who's quotas are curtailed.

EU doesn't run the nhs, but the influx of migrants has put it under more pressure. Schools, health centres, housing too. Unskilled jobs lost to foreign workers has led to poor wages and less working rights.

Yes the people vote for a certain government, who then screw the place. So the people don't get a say really. They only get to chose which shower gets to screw the place. The Brexit vote was the only time when people could really say what they felt.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 28, 2017, 04:57:41 PM
Well, joining the EU had little benefits for ordinary folk. Fishing, manufacturing, influx of cheap labour, strain on the services/nhs/housing etc has screwed the place. That's why people voted out.

Fishing concerns a negligible part of the population and unlimited fishing had to be restricted because of stock depletion anyway. One man's influx of labour is another man's opportunity throughout Europe. The strain in the NHS reflects the failure of the British government to invest in it, not the EU and it is the people of Britain who vote for that government.  Britain did very well in the EU, compared to the period before it joined, but eaten bread is soon forgotten.

Fishing is a natural resource of a country, and should create wealth, but that disappeared when joining the EU and trawlers from all over Europe deplete the stocks, while small fishermen are the ones who's quotas are curtailed.

EU doesn't run the nhs, but the influx of migrants has put it under more pressure. Schools, health centres, housing too. Unskilled jobs lost to foreign workers has led to poor wages and less working rights.

Yes the people vote for a certain government, who then screw the place. So the people don't get a say really. They only get to chose which shower gets to screw the place. The Brexit vote was the only time when people could really say what they felt.
UK economic performance in the EU was better than outside pre 73
The problem is that the economic model based on debt and increasing the wealth of the rich at the expense of everyone else has run out of road. Europe is neither here nor there , really.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: screenexile on May 28, 2017, 05:30:16 PM
Well, joining the EU had little benefits for ordinary folk. Fishing, manufacturing, influx of cheap labour, strain on the services/nhs/housing etc has screwed the place. That's why people voted out.

Fishing concerns a negligible part of the population and unlimited fishing had to be restricted because of stock depletion anyway. One man's influx of labour is another man's opportunity throughout Europe. The strain in the NHS reflects the failure of the British government to invest in it, not the EU and it is the people of Britain who vote for that government.  Britain did very well in the EU, compared to the period before it joined, but eaten bread is soon forgotten.

Fishing is a natural resource of a country, and should create wealth, but that disappeared when joining the EU and trawlers from all over Europe deplete the stocks, while small fishermen are the ones who's quotas are curtailed.

EU doesn't run the nhs, but the influx of migrants has put it under more pressure. Schools, health centres, housing too. Unskilled jobs lost to foreign workers has led to poor wages and less working rights.

Yes the people vote for a certain government, who then screw the place. So the people don't get a say really. They only get to chose which shower gets to screw the place. The Brexit vote was the only time when people could really say what they felt.

Now you're just making things up. The cost per year is £160m which is not a significant number. Immigration has very little if anything to do with the pressure the NHS is under. Rising life expectancy and the cost of new technology's and treatments as well as rising wages is what is putting the system under strain!
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: playwiththewind1st on May 28, 2017, 05:40:56 PM
Surely the NHS is subject to the 1% wage increase cap, so there's no wage inflation, as such, among existing staff? However govt did increase costs in April by 0.5% with its Apprenticeship Levy & the reliance on agency staff to prevent the collapse of the NHS also pushes up costs. While it's to be applauded, the National Living Wage also meant that public sector budgets took a big hit.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 28, 2017, 05:46:10 PM
The number of 90 year olds has been increasing and they cost 8 times as much to the NHS per year  as 30 year olds. Nothing to do with Europe.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: armaghniac on May 28, 2017, 05:51:50 PM
Now you're just making things up. The cost per year is £160m which is not a significant number. Immigration has very little if anything to do with the pressure the NHS is under. Rising life expectancy and the cost of new technology's and treatments as well as rising wages is what is putting the system under strain!

Exactly. Pressure on the NHS is driven by an ageing populating and new treatments, but the government in Britain likes to blame the immigrants so they can not fund these things. Likewise unskilled labour is often in competition with automation.

Large scale immigration was a temporary phenomenon driven by a once off change in the structure of Europe. net immigration from the countries that joined the EU in 2004 is now negligible. Immigration from Romania/Bulgaria is behind this curve but it will follow the same pattern. Britain will be left with a lot of non EU immigration and these people will not go away and they will use the NHS.

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Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: BennyCake on May 28, 2017, 05:57:31 PM
Well, joining the EU had little benefits for ordinary folk. Fishing, manufacturing, influx of cheap labour, strain on the services/nhs/housing etc has screwed the place. That's why people voted out.

Fishing concerns a negligible part of the population and unlimited fishing had to be restricted because of stock depletion anyway. One man's influx of labour is another man's opportunity throughout Europe. The strain in the NHS reflects the failure of the British government to invest in it, not the EU and it is the people of Britain who vote for that government.  Britain did very well in the EU, compared to the period before it joined, but eaten bread is soon forgotten.

Fishing is a natural resource of a country, and should create wealth, but that disappeared when joining the EU and trawlers from all over Europe deplete the stocks, while small fishermen are the ones who's quotas are curtailed.

EU doesn't run the nhs, but the influx of migrants has put it under more pressure. Schools, health centres, housing too. Unskilled jobs lost to foreign workers has led to poor wages and less working rights.

Yes the people vote for a certain government, who then screw the place. So the people don't get a say really. They only get to chose which shower gets to screw the place. The Brexit vote was the only time when people could really say what they felt.

Now you're just making things up. The cost per year is £160m which is not a significant number. Immigration has very little if anything to do with the pressure the NHS is under. Rising life expectancy and the cost of new technology's and treatments as well as rising wages is what is putting the system under strain!

So say in the North, 500,000 migrants in 10-15 years hasn't put services under pressure? Health centres have to see more patients, a&e numbers rise, longer waiting lists, then interpreters for appts. You mean to say that wouldn't have affected the nhs not one iota?!
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: playwiththewind1st on May 28, 2017, 06:04:25 PM
Would love to see the bill for interpreter services in places like the NHS & the Probation Board, for example. There are a significant number of people accessing public services here who can't speak English. Therefore under Human Rights legislation and so on, they have to be provided with an interpreter, incurring even more costs.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: ballinaman on May 28, 2017, 06:12:53 PM
Nicola Sturgeon getting rinsed by Andrew Neil on bbc 1 at the minute  :(
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: armaghniac on May 28, 2017, 06:17:24 PM
Would love to see the bill for interpreter services in places like the NHS & the Probation Board, for example. There are a significant number of people accessing public services here who can't speak English. Therefore under Human Rights legislation and so on, they have to be provided with an interpreter, incurring even more costs.

And there are no British people in Spain looking for health services and requiring people to speak to them in English?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: playwiththewind1st on May 28, 2017, 06:30:02 PM
Sure Spain is nearly as bad as Greece.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: armaghniac on May 28, 2017, 06:33:58 PM
Sure Spain is nearly as bad as Greece.

The problem with Brexit type arguments is that those who favour it have no problems making it up, if the actual facts do not suit.

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Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 28, 2017, 06:51:37 PM
Would love to see the bill for interpreter services in places like the NHS & the Probation Board, for example. There are a significant number of people accessing public services here who can't speak English. Therefore under Human Rights legislation and so on, they have to be provided with an interpreter, incurring even more costs.

And there are no British people in Spain looking for health services and requiring people to speak to them in English?
Apparently there are 900k and the Tory nightmare is a mass return giVen most are over 65
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 29, 2017, 10:04:35 PM
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/05/conservatives-revise-internal-election-projections/
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 29, 2017, 10:21:01 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dPzDqNvPUU
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Franko on May 30, 2017, 12:43:53 AM
May took one of the biggest pummellings I've ever seen tonight on her head to head with Paxman.  The audience audibly laughed at her when talking about the Tories' record on NHS funding, the camera cut to a guy mouthing "bollocks, that's bollocks" as she waffled about something else and to top it off, Paxman absolutely sucker punched her (as only he can) by calling her 'a blowhard who collapses at the first sign of gunfire'!  The Tories need to get her off the TV ASAP or, dare I say it, they could lose this!?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Franko on May 30, 2017, 12:45:59 AM
PS. The hashtag #BattleForNumber10 makes great reading right now.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 30, 2017, 03:45:26 AM
PS. The hashtag #BattleForNumber10 makes great reading right now.
People are concerned about the NHS,  police, social care and education,  all areas she and the Tories are hopeless on. And she is strong on Brexit. No deal is better than a bad deal. That got the audience going. It means no security cooperation to.prevent attacks like Manchester. 
The Tories have painted themselves into an awful corner.
It reminds me of the Sun talking up Rooney before any football tournament over the last 15 years.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: heganboy on May 30, 2017, 04:01:33 AM
#theresamaygifs

Also pretty good
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 30, 2017, 04:07:10 AM
#theresamaygifs

Also pretty good
Some of them are hilarious
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: yellowcard on May 30, 2017, 09:50:36 AM
May was again very poor last night and seems totally incapable of thinking on her feet.

Meanwhile the media constantly drumming on about Corbyn's discussions with the IRA 30 years ago is bizarre. The political class and establishment media have tried to smear Corbyn from the beginning but he has had a very good campaign irrespective of the result. I don't think that he can win but I think he might perform better then originally expected.

Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Hardy on May 30, 2017, 10:02:57 AM
Betfair
Most seats
Tories 1/11
Lab. 14.5/1
Lib. 40/1
Tory majority 1/5
No majority 5.2/1


Two weeks on the Tories are consolidating strongly:
Most seats
Tories 1/20
Lab. 19/1
Lib. 150/1
Tory majority 1/11
No majority 13.5/1


Latest:
Most seats
Tories 1/33
Lab. 27/1
Lib. 370/1
Tory majority 1/14
No majority 19/1

Update:
Most seats
Tories 1/14
Lab. 13.5/1
Lib. 1000/1
Majority
Tory majority 1/6
No majority 7.5/1
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 30, 2017, 10:47:00 AM
May was again very poor last night and seems totally incapable of thinking on her feet.

Meanwhile the media constantly drumming on about Corbyn's discussions with the IRA 30 years ago is bizarre. The political class and establishment media have tried to smear Corbyn from the beginning but he has had a very good campaign irrespective of the result. I don't think that he can win but I think he might perform better then originally expected.
I think you have to look at it in terms of voter perception. Tory working class voters are law, order and  patriotism focused. Labour working class voters are not. When they question Corbyn on the IRA or nuclear weapons it is a dog whistle for law and order voters.

May is a spoofer. She doesn't come across well in interviews and she doesn't really get the money side of things.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Saffrongael on May 30, 2017, 10:53:04 AM
Corbyn certainly improving mind you he has just made a balls up when asked about the figures for Labours child care policy announced today, he didn't have the first notion & the interviewer had to tell him them.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Rossfan on May 30, 2017, 11:01:54 AM
As ye lads up North have no say in the overall scheme of things -how will the 6Cos seats pan out?
Will "we" get back Fermanagh Sth Tyrone?
Will "we" hold Belfast South?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 30, 2017, 11:05:22 AM
David Davis is a clown

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2017/may/30/general-election-2017-may-corbyn-paxman-snp-manifesto-politics-live

He wants to go back to talking about Brexit, as per the Tory campaign reboot. He says the Labour attitude is “naive”, claiming Rayner believes that “if we’re nice to them” – remaining EU members – the UK will get a good deal.

Davis claims Jean-Claude Juncker and others have had to “back off” and admit Theresa May “is a good negotiator”.

 

She doesn’t want to do the negotiations on air and that’s quite reasonable.

The simple truth is that you [the media] want to get as much of the information as possible …

We have over 100 pages of detail, two white papers … a five-page-plus letter to the European Union, all laying out what we’re after.

What we’re after is a tariff-free arrangement … If we can’t have one, we’ll have to design our strategy as appropriate.

Davis signs off with the “no deal is better than a bad deal” line that is now seemingly a contractual obligation with every Conservative appearance.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 30, 2017, 11:46:56 AM
This is worth a look

https://twitter.com/coinflipppperr
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Maroon Manc on May 30, 2017, 12:23:54 PM
The election can't come soon enough for the Tories, with every TV appearance May makes the gap will close.



Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Saffrongael on May 30, 2017, 12:37:05 PM
The election can't come soon enough for the Tories, with every TV appearance May makes the gap will close.

Don't think these debates change anyone's minds
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AQMP on May 30, 2017, 12:57:32 PM
As ye lads up North have no say in the overall scheme of things -how will the 6Cos seats pan out?
Will "we" get back Fermanagh Sth Tyrone?
Will "we" hold Belfast South?

Three close seats in my view:

Fermanagh & South Tyrone - This could go either way but Elliott is the incumbent and I'd have him very slight favourite to hold on here.  SF campaign so far has been a bit lacklustre in this end of the constituency.  They're relying on the Assembly surge to come out again.  I'm not so sure.  Could come down to a hundred or so votes.

East Belfast - Naomi Long is popular on the ground and with a bit if tactical voting from Nats she could go close.

South Belfast - My gut tells me Pengelly might nip through the gap between McDonnell and O Muilleoir.

Otherwise no change.  I can't see Finucane beating Dodds in N Belfast and unionist tactical voting should help Durkan and Ritchie see off SF and hold on in Foyle and Sth Down.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Franko on May 30, 2017, 01:02:33 PM
The election can't come soon enough for the Tories, with every TV appearance May makes the gap will close.

Don't think these debates change anyone's minds

Disagree in this instance.  I reckon there's plenty out there who like the cut of Corbyn's policies but are afraid that he himself is not 'leader' material.  Last night he very much came across as the more competent leader of the two.  He was composed and honest, and I thought he won over the audience with both humanity and humour.  May came across as a bumbling idiot who repeatedly trotted out the same crap lines over and over.

(Although Corbyn seems to have made some sort of gaffe this morning in relation to childcare policies).
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Maroon Manc on May 30, 2017, 01:15:12 PM
The election can't come soon enough for the Tories, with every TV appearance May makes the gap will close.

Don't think these debates change anyone's minds

They will have some affect hence why the Tories don't want to see May go up against Corbyn in a head to head to debate.



Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: NAG1 on May 30, 2017, 01:30:28 PM
The election can't come soon enough for the Tories, with every TV appearance May makes the gap will close.

Don't think these debates change anyone's minds

They will have some affect hence why the Tories don't want to see May go up against Corbyn in a head to head to debate.

Christ after Corbyns performance this morning it will be a wonder if they win any seats. What an absolute clown of a man.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Saffrongael on May 30, 2017, 01:36:05 PM
The election can't come soon enough for the Tories, with every TV appearance May makes the gap will close.

Don't think these debates change anyone's minds

Disagree in this instance.  I reckon there's plenty out there who like the cut of Corbyn's policies but are afraid that he himself is not 'leader' material.  Last night he very much came across as the more competent leader of the two.  He was composed and honest, and I thought he won over the audience with both humanity and humour.  May came across as a bumbling idiot who repeatedly trotted out the same crap lines over and over.

(Although Corbyn seems to have made some sort of gaffe this morning in relation to childcare policies).

Understatement
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Avondhu star on May 30, 2017, 01:38:17 PM
The election can't come soon enough for the Tories, with every TV appearance May makes the gap will close.

Don't think these debates change anyone's minds

They will have some affect hence why the Tories don't want to see May go up against Corbyn in a head to head to debate.

Christ after Corbyns performance this morning it will be a wonder if they win any seats. What an absolute clown of a man.
Whether he would be good P.M. or not performances like this morning will be highlighted more than competent interviews. The media have decided that he is the muesli eaters Michael Foot
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 30, 2017, 01:41:50 PM
May took one of the biggest pummellings I've ever seen tonight on her head to head with Paxman.  The audience audibly laughed at her when talking about the Tories' record on NHS funding, the camera cut to a guy mouthing "bollocks, that's bollocks" as she waffled about something else and to top it off, Paxman absolutely sucker punched her (as only he can) by calling her 'a blowhard who collapses at the first sign of gunfire'!  The Tories need to get her off the TV ASAP or, dare I say it, they could lose this!?

Media consensus is that Paxman is past it and his questioning methodology was old style and ineffective by talking over the interviewee and constantly repeating questions to no effect. Paxman tried his best to goad both Corbyn and May into reacting badly to his statements and questions but failed on both instances.

Probably Paxman is now being seen in a poorer light given the performance of Andrew Neil and Krishnan Guru-Murthy. 
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 30, 2017, 01:45:38 PM
The election can't come soon enough for the Tories, with every TV appearance May makes the gap will close.

Don't think these debates change anyone's minds

The Tories have just about got the timing right unfortunately, having squeezed in their unpopular  policies close enough to the election so that it doesn't hamper them too much considering their lead, but claim afterwards that the public want them to carry on with it based on them winning the election..
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Franko on May 30, 2017, 02:10:14 PM
May took one of the biggest pummellings I've ever seen tonight on her head to head with Paxman.  The audience audibly laughed at her when talking about the Tories' record on NHS funding, the camera cut to a guy mouthing "bollocks, that's bollocks" as she waffled about something else and to top it off, Paxman absolutely sucker punched her (as only he can) by calling her 'a blowhard who collapses at the first sign of gunfire'!  The Tories need to get her off the TV ASAP or, dare I say it, they could lose this!?

Media consensus is that Paxman is past it and his questioning methodology was old style and ineffective by talking over the interviewee and constantly repeating questions to no effect. Paxman tried his best to goad both Corbyn and May into reacting badly to his statements and questions but failed on both instances.

Probably Paxman is now being seen in a poorer light given the performance of Andrew Neil and Krishnan Guru-Murthy.

Strange point to make but regardless.  Have you anything to bring to the table regarding Corbyn or May's performances?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: ballinaman on May 30, 2017, 02:13:33 PM
The election can't come soon enough for the Tories, with every TV appearance May makes the gap will close.

Don't think these debates change anyone's minds

They will have some affect hence why the Tories don't want to see May go up against Corbyn in a head to head to debate.

Christ after Corbyns performance this morning it will be a wonder if they win any seats. What an absolute clown of a man.
Interviewer, Emma Barnett is a daily telegraph editor and has a picture of Theresa May on the banner of her Twitter header. BBC showing glorious impartiality again this morning...
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: NAG1 on May 30, 2017, 02:17:04 PM
The election can't come soon enough for the Tories, with every TV appearance May makes the gap will close.

Don't think these debates change anyone's minds

They will have some affect hence why the Tories don't want to see May go up against Corbyn in a head to head to debate.

Christ after Corbyns performance this morning it will be a wonder if they win any seats. What an absolute clown of a man.
Interviewer, Emma Barnett is a daily telegraph editor and has a picture of Theresa May on the banner of her Twitter header. BBC showing glorious impartiality again this morning...

Even more reason to be on your metal have the figures to back your policies up, not be diving for your ipad because you dont know. Its not rocket science, he gave her the window of opportunity and she took with great delight.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Saffrongael on May 30, 2017, 02:23:11 PM
The election can't come soon enough for the Tories, with every TV appearance May makes the gap will close.

Don't think these debates change anyone's minds

They will have some affect hence why the Tories don't want to see May go up against Corbyn in a head to head to debate.

Christ after Corbyns performance this morning it will be a wonder if they win any seats. What an absolute clown of a man.
Interviewer, Emma Barnett is a daily telegraph editor and has a picture of Theresa May on the banner of her Twitter header. BBC showing glorious impartiality again this morning...

Ah come on he fucked up badly, nothing to do with the interviewer or her background. Anyone with half a clue would have pounced on that when it was obvious Corbyn hadn't a clue
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: ballinaman on May 30, 2017, 02:27:09 PM
The election can't come soon enough for the Tories, with every TV appearance May makes the gap will close.

Don't think these debates change anyone's minds

They will have some affect hence why the Tories don't want to see May go up against Corbyn in a head to head to debate.

Christ after Corbyns performance this morning it will be a wonder if they win any seats. What an absolute clown of a man.
Interviewer, Emma Barnett is a daily telegraph editor and has a picture of Theresa May on the banner of her Twitter header. BBC showing glorious impartiality again this morning...

Ah come on he fucked up badly, nothing to do with the interviewer or her background. Anyone with half a clue would have pounced on that when it was obvious Corbyn hadn't a clue
Absolutely but will be interesting to see what treatment May gets...Tories have no figures or costings on that issue so it'll be easier for her in that sense..
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 30, 2017, 02:59:17 PM
The election can't come soon enough for the Tories, with every TV appearance May makes the gap will close.

Don't think these debates change anyone's minds

They will have some affect hence why the Tories don't want to see May go up against Corbyn in a head to head to debate.

Christ after Corbyns performance this morning it will be a wonder if they win any seats. What an absolute clown of a man.
Interviewer, Emma Barnett is a daily telegraph editor and has a picture of Theresa May on the banner of her Twitter header. BBC showing glorious impartiality again this morning...

Ah come on he fucked up badly, nothing to do with the interviewer or her background. Anyone with half a clue would have pounced on that when it was obvious Corbyn hadn't a clue
Absolutely but will be interesting to see what treatment May gets...Tories have no figures or costings on that issue so it'll be easier for her in that sense..

All supposed costings are nothing more than guesstimates and all Corbyn had to do was to have his figures written down in front of him as it was certain to be the first question when he was announcing such a wide ranging provision on childcare.  It showed incompetence on his behalf and on behalf of Milne who should have prepped him given the disaster so far of Labour politicians and numbers.  At worst he could have bluffed it by saying in the region of £5bn and the detail is in our costings provided to everyone.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 30, 2017, 03:13:40 PM
May took one of the biggest pummellings I've ever seen tonight on her head to head with Paxman.  The audience audibly laughed at her when talking about the Tories' record on NHS funding, the camera cut to a guy mouthing "bollocks, that's bollocks" as she waffled about something else and to top it off, Paxman absolutely sucker punched her (as only he can) by calling her 'a blowhard who collapses at the first sign of gunfire'!  The Tories need to get her off the TV ASAP or, dare I say it, they could lose this!?

Media consensus is that Paxman is past it and his questioning methodology was old style and ineffective by talking over the interviewee and constantly repeating questions to no effect. Paxman tried his best to goad both Corbyn and May into reacting badly to his statements and questions but failed on both instances.

Probably Paxman is now being seen in a poorer light given the performance of Andrew Neil and Krishnan Guru-Murthy.

Strange point to make but regardless.  Have you anything to bring to the table regarding Corbyn or May's performances?

Nothing strange in it.  An interview or debate of this type is heavily dependent on the interviewer or moderator to act on behalf of the public.  Paxman made a fool of himself by becoming annoyed that the Labour manifesto wasn't left wing enough and questioning Corbyn why many of his far left views were not in the manifesto.  He gave him an easy ride on most issues and found that most of the audience laughing with Corbyn and not at him as Paxman wanted.  His relentless interrupting of Corbyn gave him the sympathy of the audience. In both interviews Paxman failed to let the interviewee speak and talked over them.

As I said above both interviewees didn't fall for the goading and mockery of Paxman who was trying to get them to raise to his bait.  I saw nothing new the performances, May is horrible on TV as shown on numerous occasions and particularly on Andrew Neil interview, she lacks the ability to debate in a spontaneous manner and is too would up by the stress of the occasion to come across in a human way.  Corbyn showed a steady improvement, again helped by poor Paxman questioning of irrelevant areas, and training not to rise to the bait.  Throw in some numbers, proper questioning of his record and inexperience and you could have troubled him.  He will always come across a a decent human being with some warmth when compared to May.

On the whole nothing new in the debate.  May and Corbyn came out no worse or better than before and given the tiny audience on C4 and SKY news, the effect on the undecided is negligible.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: johnneycool on May 30, 2017, 03:17:11 PM
May took one of the biggest pummellings I've ever seen tonight on her head to head with Paxman.  The audience audibly laughed at her when talking about the Tories' record on NHS funding, the camera cut to a guy mouthing "bollocks, that's bollocks" as she waffled about something else and to top it off, Paxman absolutely sucker punched her (as only he can) by calling her 'a blowhard who collapses at the first sign of gunfire'!  The Tories need to get her off the TV ASAP or, dare I say it, they could lose this!?

Media consensus is that Paxman is past it and his questioning methodology was old style and ineffective by talking over the interviewee and constantly repeating questions to no effect. Paxman tried his best to goad both Corbyn and May into reacting badly to his statements and questions but failed on both instances.

Probably Paxman is now being seen in a poorer light given the performance of Andrew Neil and Krishnan Guru-Murthy.

Strange point to make but regardless.  Have you anything to bring to the table regarding Corbyn or May's performances?

Nothing strange in it.  An interview or debate of this type is heavily dependent on the interviewer or moderator to act on behalf of the public.  Paxman made a fool of himself by becoming annoyed that the Labour manifesto wasn't left wing enough and questioning Corbyn why many of his far left views were not in the manifesto.  He gave him an easy ride on most issues and found that most of the audience laughing with Corbyn and not at him as Paxman wanted.  His relentless interrupting of Corbyn gave him the sympathy of the audience. In both interviews Paxman failed to let the interviewee speak and talked over them.

As I said above both interviewees didn't fall for the goading and mockery of Paxman who was trying to get them to raise to his bait.  I saw nothing new the performances, May is horrible on TV as shown on numerous occasions and particularly on Andrew Neil interview, she lacks the ability to debate in a spontaneous manner and is too would up by the stress of the occasion to come across in a human way.  Corbyn showed a steady improvement, again helped by poor Paxman questioning of irrelevant areas, and training not to rise to the bait.  Throw in some numbers, proper questioning of his record and inexperience and you could have troubled him.  He will always come across a a decent human being with some warmth when compared to May.

On the whole nothing new in the debate.  May and Corbyn came out no worse or better than before and given the tiny audience on C4 and SKY news, the effect on the undecided is negligible.

I didn't get to see the Corbyn part, but I did see the May part and two things came out, Paxman did labour some points very heavily but at the same time May said lots but didn't answer a good few questions directly.
Thought Paxman went a bit low with his blowhard comment and the audience seemed to think the same.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AhNowRef on May 30, 2017, 06:31:25 PM
I though the real loser was Paxman ... WTF is he like ? .. he out paxmaned himself and looked a complete tool..

Corbyn looked the more genuine as May is just an aul bluffer .. but I thought Corbyn could have been better on a few questions too .. He did the best but I think he missed a big opportunity there !!
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 30, 2017, 08:43:16 PM
I though the real loser was Paxman ... WTF is he like ? .. he out paxmaned himself and looked a complete tool..

Corbyn looked the more genuine as May is just an aul bluffer .. but I thought Corbyn could have been better on a few questions too .. He did the best but I think he missed a big opportunity there !!

IN this whole election it is the Labour party that is missing a big opportunity to replace the Tories.  If Labour had a credible leader with a competent shadow cabinet to back him/her up then May would be in serious trouble.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 30, 2017, 08:58:11 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx3hrpDCct8

Corbyn is credible but he's not a neoliberal
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: dec on May 30, 2017, 09:00:20 PM
I though the real loser was Paxman ... WTF is he like ? .. he out paxmaned himself and looked a complete tool..

Corbyn looked the more genuine as May is just an aul bluffer .. but I thought Corbyn could have been better on a few questions too .. He did the best but I think he missed a big opportunity there !!

IN this whole election it is the Labour party that is missing a big opportunity to replace the Tories.  If Labour had a credible leader with a competent shadow cabinet to back him/her up then May would be in serious trouble.

If Labour had a credible leader with a competent shadow cabinet to back him/her up then May would not have called an early general election.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Saffrongael on May 30, 2017, 10:05:09 PM
I though the real loser was Paxman ... WTF is he like ? .. he out paxmaned himself and looked a complete tool..

Corbyn looked the more genuine as May is just an aul bluffer .. but I thought Corbyn could have been better on a few questions too .. He did the best but I think he missed a big opportunity there !!

IN this whole election it is the Labour party that is missing a big opportunity to replace the Tories.  If Labour had a credible leader with a competent shadow cabinet to back him/her up then May would be in serious trouble.

If Labour had a credible leader with a competent shadow cabinet to back him/her up then May would not have called an early general election.

I saw somewhere that Tories called it as they heard rumours Corbyn wasn't going to stay on until 2020, so sure where they of victory if Corbyn was leading Labour.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: magpie seanie on May 30, 2017, 10:43:27 PM
Seems like opinion polls have dried up.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 30, 2017, 11:18:31 PM
The voting patterns in the UK:

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Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: armaghniac on May 31, 2017, 12:35:58 AM
It is notable in the previous post that the proportion voting in the young age groups was pretty much in touch with the proportion of other groups until the early 90s. Not sure what kicked off such a rapid decline.

see below for data from Huffingtonpost of polling trends with adjustments removed. Not such a big gap at all, but since the young (as above) and less well off couldn't be arsed to vote, this is still a large Con lead.
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Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on May 31, 2017, 12:47:48 AM
It is notable in the previous post that the proportion voting in the young age groups was pretty much in touch with the proportion of other groups until the early 90s. Not sure what kicked off such a rapid decline.

see below for data from Huffingtonpost of polling trends with adjustments removed. Not such a big gap at all, but since the young (as above) and less well off couldn't be arsed to vote, this is still a large Con lead.
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young people now are so rich from 20 years ago that they do not care about politics, everyone has an ipad, laptops, car when they turn 17 etc. they do not have the incentive to vote for any real change as they have it so good already
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: armaghniac on May 31, 2017, 12:49:55 AM
young people now are so rich from 20 years ago that they do not care about politics, everyone has an ipad, laptops, car when they turn 17 etc. they do not have the incentive to vote for any real change as they have it so good already

This theory is suspect. Older people are much richer, in general, and they do vote. Young people today have iPads, but also big student loans, something we never had.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: armaghniac on May 31, 2017, 01:14:10 AM
Talk of a poll tomorrow showing Con artists losing 20 seats and a hung parliament. This would be interesting, as most of the rest would leave the EU, but not go for some of the lunatic tough talk.

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Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: TheOptimist on May 31, 2017, 08:51:17 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-40059846
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 31, 2017, 09:25:13 AM
Talk of a poll tomorrow showing Con artists losing 20 seats and a hung parliament. This would be interesting, as most of the rest would leave the EU, but not go for some of the lunatic tough talk.

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It's fascinating. _The Leave win was based on a wafer thin margin. Even though the Tories drank the Kool Aid most people are more interested in NHS, education, social care etc. And Labour are stronger on this.
If this poll is replicated on 8 June May will look like an idiot for calling this election. But she had to to hold off the Eurosceptics...
Maybe they should have a few duels with pistols.

Also look at how FPTP is so unfair to smaller parties. Lib Dems get twice as much support than SNP and one eighth of the seats. SNP operate in a concentrated space while the Lib Dems don't.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AQMP on May 31, 2017, 09:26:39 AM
Talk of a poll tomorrow showing Con artists losing 20 seats and a hung parliament. This would be interesting, as most of the rest would leave the EU, but not go for some of the lunatic tough talk.

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Apart from the fact that it shows NI only had 8 MPs at the time of dissolution, does this just confirm that the opinion polls are all over the place again??
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 31, 2017, 09:34:19 AM
The polls are all over the place because the people are. Except in Scotland . And NI where your vote is a function of your religion.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 31, 2017, 11:05:12 AM
Sterling falls as much as 0.7% on YouGov research pointing to possible hung parliament

https://www.ft.com/content/87563124-45cb-11e7-8519-9f94ee97d996
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: ziggysego on May 31, 2017, 12:09:36 PM
Apart from the fact that it shows NI only had 8 MPs at the time of dissolution, does this just confirm that the opinion polls are all over the place again??

Only 8 MPs? I'm sure I'm missing something obvious.... again. Where are the other 10?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Hardy on May 31, 2017, 12:19:42 PM
The poll showing a hung parliament is having little effect on the betting market. "No overall majority" has shortened but only from 7.5/1 to 6/1.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 31, 2017, 12:20:59 PM
The poll showing a hung parliament is having little effect on the betting market. "No overall majority" has shortened but only from 7.5/1 to 6/1.
That is a nice price
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 31, 2017, 01:32:28 PM
When you see polls giving a percentage to each party and the gap opening or closing you need to understand that this is an overall picture but seats are decided on a constituency basis.  This means that while Labour are showing an increase in their percentage in the poll, this will most likely mean that the rise is in areas where labour will win the seat anyway. It will not necessarily mean that the surge will be enough to win seats in the marginal constituencies that are key to winning an election.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Applesisapples on May 31, 2017, 02:32:44 PM
So the stoops are castigating the shinners for being absentionist. Better for a nationalist to swear allegiance to the Queen. They are a bit like the DUP in supposing that SF voters actually give a toss about the British parliament.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: magpie seanie on May 31, 2017, 03:01:52 PM
When you see polls giving a percentage to each party and the gap opening or closing you need to understand that this is an overall picture but seats are decided on a constituency basis.  This means that while Labour are showing an increase in their percentage in the poll, this will most likely mean that the rise is in areas where labour will win the seat anyway. It will not necessarily mean that the surge will be enough to win seats in the marginal constituencies that are key to winning an election.


I think you've given a definition of "biased" there buddy.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: screenexile on May 31, 2017, 03:02:55 PM
So the stoops are castigating the shinners for being absentionist. Better for a nationalist to swear allegiance to the Queen. They are a bit like the DUP in supposing that SF voters actually give a toss about the British parliament.

Well then what's the point in them standing for the election anyway it's a wasted vote??!! Sinn Fein need to go to Westminster and represent the people who put them there not sit on their hands!

They've moved on in a lot of ways but in this they are stuck in the 60's!!
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 31, 2017, 03:24:45 PM
When you see polls giving a percentage to each party and the gap opening or closing you need to understand that this is an overall picture but seats are decided on a constituency basis.  This means that while Labour are showing an increase in their percentage in the poll, this will most likely mean that the rise is in areas where labour will win the seat anyway. It will not necessarily mean that the surge will be enough to win seats in the marginal constituencies that are key to winning an election.


I think you've given a definition of "biased" there buddy.

Just because I have used Labour as an example?

The Conservatives have remained in a narrow band between 43 to 46% in the polls and according to the polls they have remained stable given the +/-3% allowed in accuracy.  This means that their core vote has not changed despite Labour's rise in the polls to narrow the gap.  Again, this is an overall percentage and can be swayed by swings within constituencies which will not mean that they will take established Labour seats or even marginals despite such a high percentage in the polls.

My point is that polls are based on nationwide samples but not on specific constituencies which would show the movement to unseating an incumbent MP.  However, the LUCID polling in N.Ireland does provide constituency by constituency polling and predictions which the UK polls do not.

https://lucidtalk.co.uk/images/News/LTMay17TrackerPollResultsPoll2-GeneralReport.pdf (https://lucidtalk.co.uk/images/News/LTMay17TrackerPollResultsPoll2-GeneralReport.pdf)
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 31, 2017, 03:36:05 PM
Heading for number 1

https://youtu.be/HxN1STgQXW8
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AhNowRef on May 31, 2017, 03:36:30 PM
So the stoops are castigating the shinners for being absentionist. Better for a nationalist to swear allegiance to the Queen. They are a bit like the DUP in supposing that SF voters actually give a toss about the British parliament.

Well then what's the point in them standing for the election anyway it's a wasted vote??!! Sinn Fein need to go to Westminster and represent the people who put them there not sit on their hands!

They've moved on in a lot of ways but in this they are stuck in the 60's!!

What benefit would it be to SF or us in NI if they were to take their seats ... SNP have over 50 MPs and look how much notice is taken of them  ::)

The yapping by all the other parties (and disgracefully the SDLP) that SF dont "stand up for us" in parliament is ludicrous !!
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: omaghjoe on May 31, 2017, 03:45:57 PM
When you see polls giving a percentage to each party and the gap opening or closing you need to understand that this is an overall picture but seats are decided on a constituency basis.  This means that while Labour are showing an increase in their percentage in the poll, this will most likely mean that the rise is in areas where labour will win the seat anyway. It will not necessarily mean that the surge will be enough to win seats in the marginal constituencies that are key to winning an election.

This is the key phrase. What Are you basing it on?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 31, 2017, 04:28:05 PM
So the stoops are castigating the shinners for being absentionist. Better for a nationalist to swear allegiance to the Queen. They are a bit like the DUP in supposing that SF voters actually give a toss about the British parliament.

Well then what's the point in them standing for the election anyway it's a wasted vote??!! Sinn Fein need to go to Westminster and represent the people who put them there not sit on their hands!

They've moved on in a lot of ways but in this they are stuck in the 60's!!

What benefit would it be to SF or us in NI if they were to take their seats ... SNP have over 50 MPs and look how much notice is taken of them  ::)

The yapping by all the other parties (and disgracefully the SDLP) that SF dont "stand up for us" in parliament is ludicrous !!
They don't. SF could have voted against Article 50. They didn't
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: johnneycool on May 31, 2017, 04:31:11 PM
Michael Fallon sucked in a blown away by C4 news.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNMfTTb1Kig (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNMfTTb1Kig)

Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Applesisapples on May 31, 2017, 04:48:17 PM
So the stoops are castigating the shinners for being absentionist. Better for a nationalist to swear allegiance to the Queen. They are a bit like the DUP in supposing that SF voters actually give a toss about the British parliament.

Well then what's the point in them standing for the election anyway it's a wasted vote??!! Sinn Fein need to go to Westminster and represent the people who put them there not sit on their hands!

They've moved on in a lot of ways but in this they are stuck in the 60's!!
If thats the case any vote here is wasted, especially for a nationalist/republican as they have no influence. Why in this day and age must they swear allegiance to a Queen who has to be protestant under the constitution? To do so makes you a Unionist.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Applesisapples on May 31, 2017, 04:50:38 PM
So the stoops are castigating the shinners for being absentionist. Better for a nationalist to swear allegiance to the Queen. They are a bit like the DUP in supposing that SF voters actually give a toss about the British parliament.

Well then what's the point in them standing for the election anyway it's a wasted vote??!! Sinn Fein need to go to Westminster and represent the people who put them there not sit on their hands!

They've moved on in a lot of ways but in this they are stuck in the 60's!!

What benefit would it be to SF or us in NI if they were to take their seats ... SNP have over 50 MPs and look how much notice is taken of them  ::)

The yapping by all the other parties (and disgracefully the SDLP) that SF dont "stand up for us" in parliament is ludicrous !!
They don't. SF could have voted against Article 50. They didn't
It wouldn't have changed a fcukin thing.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AhNowRef on May 31, 2017, 05:29:33 PM
So the stoops are castigating the shinners for being absentionist. Better for a nationalist to swear allegiance to the Queen. They are a bit like the DUP in supposing that SF voters actually give a toss about the British parliament.

Well then what's the point in them standing for the election anyway it's a wasted vote??!! Sinn Fein need to go to Westminster and represent the people who put them there not sit on their hands!

They've moved on in a lot of ways but in this they are stuck in the 60's!!

What benefit would it be to SF or us in NI if they were to take their seats ... SNP have over 50 MPs and look how much notice is taken of them  ::)

The yapping by all the other parties (and disgracefully the SDLP) that SF dont "stand up for us" in parliament is ludicrous !!
They don't. SF could have voted against Article 50. They didn't

exactly what difference would that have made ? .... Please explain ?

Im genuinely at a loss here to see why some people think SF being in the commons would make the slightest difference to "anything" ?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 31, 2017, 05:53:21 PM
So the stoops are castigating the shinners for being absentionist. Better for a nationalist to swear allegiance to the Queen. They are a bit like the DUP in supposing that SF voters actually give a toss about the British parliament.

Well then what's the point in them standing for the election anyway it's a wasted vote??!! Sinn Fein need to go to Westminster and represent the people who put them there not sit on their hands!

They've moved on in a lot of ways but in this they are stuck in the 60's!!

What benefit would it be to SF or us in NI if they were to take their seats ... SNP have over 50 MPs and look how much notice is taken of them  ::)

The yapping by all the other parties (and disgracefully the SDLP) that SF dont "stand up for us" in parliament is ludicrous !!
They don't. SF could have voted against Article 50. They didn't

exactly what difference would that have made ? .... Please explain ?

Im genuinely at a loss here to see why some people think SF being in the commons would make the slightest difference to "anything" ?
There will probably be a hung parliament.
SF could take part in committees to improve services in NI
It could stand up for its voters instead of following a policy from the 50s
It's happy to vote at Stormon

the abstentionist policy came from a point of weakness
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Wildweasel74 on May 31, 2017, 06:04:49 PM
Happy enough to take the money even though they dont attend! Thats really standing up for the people there
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AhNowRef on May 31, 2017, 06:18:39 PM
So the stoops are castigating the shinners for being absentionist. Better for a nationalist to swear allegiance to the Queen. They are a bit like the DUP in supposing that SF voters actually give a toss about the British parliament.

Well then what's the point in them standing for the election anyway it's a wasted vote??!! Sinn Fein need to go to Westminster and represent the people who put them there not sit on their hands!

They've moved on in a lot of ways but in this they are stuck in the 60's!!

What benefit would it be to SF or us in NI if they were to take their seats ... SNP have over 50 MPs and look how much notice is taken of them  ::)

The yapping by all the other parties (and disgracefully the SDLP) that SF dont "stand up for us" in parliament is ludicrous !!
They don't. SF could have voted against Article 50. They didn't

exactly what difference would that have made ? .... Please explain ?

Im genuinely at a loss here to see why some people think SF being in the commons would make the slightest difference to "anything" ?
There will probably be a hung parliament.
SF could take part in committees to improve services in NI
It could stand up for its voters instead of following a policy from the 50s
It's happy to vote at Stormon

the abstentionist policy came from a point of weakness

Ifs & buts ... Can you tell me one instance when a SF vote in the commons would have made "any" difference ?

BTW, I vote SF and the way things currently stand, I wouldn't want them there.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AhNowRef on May 31, 2017, 06:21:27 PM
Happy enough to take the money even though they dont attend! Thats really standing up for the people there

Thats a weak point really isnt it .. SF, love them or hate them, you cant say they're in it for the Mula ..  They're the only party you just cant say that about..
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 31, 2017, 08:10:29 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2017/may/31/general-election-2017-may-corbyn-bbc-debate-campaign-personal-politics-live

A special deal allowing Northern Ireland to remain in the single market and customs union is the only way to overcome the political and economic threats posed by imposing a hard border with the Republic, the Alliance party has said.
It would be “toxic” to conflate calls for special status for Northern Ireland and any debate over the region’s constitutional future, the party’s deputy leader, Stephen Farry, said.
His party’s general election manifesto also calls for a second referendum on the terms of the final Brexit deal negotiated between the UK and the EU.
 
We must decouple the concept of a special deal for Northern Ireland with the broad constitutional question because if the notion of a special deal gets caught up in orange versus green politics, as opposed to building a broad, cross-community coalition behind it, then it will not have that support and will be seen as politically toxic, as opposed to something that is absolutely necessary.
Other key elements of the manifesto include:
An end to community designations in the Stormont assembly and the reform of the petition of concern vetoing mechanism.
The formation of the Stormont executive on a voluntary, rather than mandatory, basis.
A UK-wide constitutional convention to reshape a more federal UK.
The repeal of “English votes for English laws” in Westminster.
A target of 20% of school children in Northern Ireland to be in integrated education within 10 years.
Compelling the NI Housing Executive to facilitate mixed housing.
Opposition to any potential repeal of the Human Rights Act post-Brexit.
Higher tax rates for foreign companies making profits in the UK.
The reduction or abolition of air passenger duty.
Pressing for continued UK participation in the European arrest warrant post-Brexit.
The repeal of the bedroom tax.
Retaining the triple-lock on pensions.
A ban on the use of wild animals in circuses.
Opposition to Trident renewal.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 31, 2017, 08:15:03 PM
Arlene wants to go back to the demographics of the 50s

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2017/may/31/general-election-2017-may-corbyn-bbc-debate-campaign-personal-politics-live

Foster said, for her, the most important issue at the forthcoming election “is not devolution but the union itself”.
She called on all unionists to rise to the challenge from Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams and put a border poll off the agenda for generations.
“Sinn Fein want to use this election as a precursor to a border poll,” she said. “Gerry Adams has declared that this election will be a barometer on Irish Unity.
“Let us rise to that challenge and seek to ensure that unionism still returns a majority of unionist MPs to Westminster and puts the notion of a divisive and destabilising border poll off the agenda for generations to come.”
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: red hander on May 31, 2017, 08:50:42 PM
'Divisive and destabilising' seems to be the new buzz term as far as a border poll is concerned. An attempt to shut down legitimate debate and stop nationalists asserting their political arguments by suggesting even talking about reunification is somehow out of order and shouldn't happen. Expect this fascist mantra to grow in the coming years as more and more unionists (and their west Brit cheerleaders like Ugly Edwards, Harris and O'Hanlon) realise the game is up.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AQMP on May 31, 2017, 08:54:35 PM
The UDA, which was shooting people at the weekend, backs DUP in S Belfast
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-40104318
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 31, 2017, 09:03:07 PM
The UDA, which was shooting people at the weekend, backs DUP in S Belfast
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-40104318

The DUP won't do anything for working class Protestants
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: ziggysego on May 31, 2017, 09:46:40 PM
So the stoops are castigating the shinners for being absentionist. Better for a nationalist to swear allegiance to the Queen. They are a bit like the DUP in supposing that SF voters actually give a toss about the British parliament.

Well then what's the point in them standing for the election anyway it's a wasted vote??!! Sinn Fein need to go to Westminster and represent the people who put them there not sit on their hands!

They've moved on in a lot of ways but in this they are stuck in the 60's!!

What benefit would it be to SF or us in NI if they were to take their seats ... SNP have over 50 MPs and look how much notice is taken of them  ::)

The yapping by all the other parties (and disgracefully the SDLP) that SF dont "stand up for us" in parliament is ludicrous !!
They don't. SF could have voted against Article 50. They didn't

There was a majority of 45 MPs for it. How would have made a blind bit of difference?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Saffrongael on May 31, 2017, 09:54:40 PM
So the stoops are castigating the shinners for being absentionist. Better for a nationalist to swear allegiance to the Queen. They are a bit like the DUP in supposing that SF voters actually give a toss about the British parliament.

Well then what's the point in them standing for the election anyway it's a wasted vote??!! Sinn Fein need to go to Westminster and represent the people who put them there not sit on their hands!

They've moved on in a lot of ways but in this they are stuck in the 60's!!

What benefit would it be to SF or us in NI if they were to take their seats ... SNP have over 50 MPs and look how much notice is taken of them  ::)

The yapping by all the other parties (and disgracefully the SDLP) that SF dont "stand up for us" in parliament is ludicrous !!
They don't. SF could have voted against Article 50. They didn't

There was a majority of 45 MPs for it. How would have made a blind bit of difference?

Sure why did anyone vote against it then? Some strange ideas of democracy on this board
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 31, 2017, 10:17:56 PM
Sam Coates Times

@SamCoatesTimes
Tonight: Times/YouGov regular weekly poll shows 3pt Tory lead. (Poll different to YouGov model but Tory lead same)

It's like watching Offaly in the 94 hurling final
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: johnneycool on May 31, 2017, 10:28:27 PM
Sam Coates Times

@SamCoatesTimes
Tonight: Times/YouGov regular weekly poll shows 3pt Tory lead. (Poll different to YouGov model but Tory lead same)

It's like watching Offaly in the 94 hurling final

With Corbyn like Billy Dooley, bolloxed, but the ball falling at his feet to puck over the bar for easy points
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Avondhu star on May 31, 2017, 10:42:01 PM
Sam Coates Times

@SamCoatesTimes
Tonight: Times/YouGov regular weekly poll shows 3pt Tory lead. (Poll different to YouGov model but Tory lead same)

It's like watching Offaly in the 94 hurling final

Before you come in your trousers there is another poll showing the Tories 12 points ahead
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: screenexile on May 31, 2017, 10:54:57 PM
Sam Coates Times

@SamCoatesTimes
Tonight: Times/YouGov regular weekly poll shows 3pt Tory lead. (Poll different to YouGov model but Tory lead same)

It's like watching Offaly in the 94 hurling final

Before you come in your trousers there is another poll showing the Tories 12 points ahead

As has been said before these polls are a bit misleading and in reality the Tories will safely have their majority but make no mistake they've taken a right kicking in this campaign Teresa May is experiencing the complete opposite of what she and the rest of the Tory's expected when calling the election!!

On Sinn Fein Saffrongael has hit the nail on the head. . . maybe some of you lads need to read a few books to understand the workings of democracy! If what you're saying is true then what's the point in voting for anything at all??!!
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on May 31, 2017, 10:58:21 PM
The Tories are beagainín trína chéile   . Labour have a great ace with the NHS

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/31/theresa-may-abandon-strategy-attacking-jeremy-corbyn/
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 01, 2017, 09:43:23 AM
What is no deal likely to cost ?
.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/audio/2017/may/31/what-does-no-deal-actually-mean-brexit-means-podcast
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Applesisapples on June 01, 2017, 11:06:37 AM
Arlene wants to go back to the demographics of the 50s

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2017/may/31/general-election-2017-may-corbyn-bbc-debate-campaign-personal-politics-live

Foster said, for her, the most important issue at the forthcoming election “is not devolution but the union itself”.
She called on all unionists to rise to the challenge from Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams and put a border poll off the agenda for generations.
“Sinn Fein want to use this election as a precursor to a border poll,” she said. “Gerry Adams has declared that this election will be a barometer on Irish Unity.
“Let us rise to that challenge and seek to ensure that unionism still returns a majority of unionist MPs to Westminster and puts the notion of a divisive and destabilising border poll off the agenda for generations to come.”
This is exactly the issue I have with Unionism. Everything on their terms and the only legitimate culture and ideology in NI is a unionist one.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 01, 2017, 11:20:46 AM
Sam Coates Times

@SamCoatesTimes
Tonight: Times/YouGov regular weekly poll shows 3pt Tory lead. (Poll different to YouGov model but Tory lead same)

It's like watching Offaly in the 94 hurling final

Before you come in your trousers there is another poll showing the Tories 12 points ahead
the difference is all about the turnout of young people
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 01, 2017, 11:25:53 AM
https://www.facebook.com/PeoplesMomentum/videos/457075104637882/
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AhNowRef on June 01, 2017, 11:29:15 AM
So the stoops are castigating the shinners for being absentionist. Better for a nationalist to swear allegiance to the Queen. They are a bit like the DUP in supposing that SF voters actually give a toss about the British parliament.

Well then what's the point in them standing for the election anyway it's a wasted vote??!! Sinn Fein need to go to Westminster and represent the people who put them there not sit on their hands!

They've moved on in a lot of ways but in this they are stuck in the 60's!!

What benefit would it be to SF or us in NI if they were to take their seats ... SNP have over 50 MPs and look how much notice is taken of them  ::)

The yapping by all the other parties (and disgracefully the SDLP) that SF dont "stand up for us" in parliament is ludicrous !!
They don't. SF could have voted against Article 50. They didn't

There was a majority of 45 MPs for it. How would have made a blind bit of difference?

Sure why did anyone vote against it then? Some strange ideas of democracy on this board

Sam Coates Times

@SamCoatesTimes
Tonight: Times/YouGov regular weekly poll shows 3pt Tory lead. (Poll different to YouGov model but Tory lead same)

It's like watching Offaly in the 94 hurling final

Before you come in your trousers there is another poll showing the Tories 12 points ahead

As has been said before these polls are a bit misleading and in reality the Tories will safely have their majority but make no mistake they've taken a right kicking in this campaign Teresa May is experiencing the complete opposite of what she and the rest of the Tory's expected when calling the election!!

On Sinn Fein Saffrongael has hit the nail on the head. . . maybe some of you lads need to read a few books to understand the workings of democracy! If what you're saying is true then what's the point in voting for anything at all??!!

Hmm, nice point but totally irrelevant in this case ... Pointing out the fundamentals of democracy is all fine and well but we're talking about actually making a difference here .. i.e. Would SF votes have changed "anything" ... and the answer is a clear and concise "NO" ... they would not have matter one iota .. but please let me know if I am wrong here ?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AhNowRef on June 01, 2017, 11:31:31 AM
Arlene wants to go back to the demographics of the 50s

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2017/may/31/general-election-2017-may-corbyn-bbc-debate-campaign-personal-politics-live

Foster said, for her, the most important issue at the forthcoming election “is not devolution but the union itself”.
She called on all unionists to rise to the challenge from Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams and put a border poll off the agenda for generations.
“Sinn Fein want to use this election as a precursor to a border poll,” she said. “Gerry Adams has declared that this election will be a barometer on Irish Unity.
“Let us rise to that challenge and seek to ensure that unionism still returns a majority of unionist MPs to Westminster and puts the notion of a divisive and destabilising border poll off the agenda for generations to come.”
This is exactly the issue I have with Unionism. Everything on their terms and the only legitimate culture and ideology in NI is a unionist one.

Yep, down croppy down .. they havent changed a bit and would happily (delightedly) go back to 1950 in the morning  ::)
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Rossfan on June 01, 2017, 11:34:06 AM
Sam Coates Times

@SamCoatesTimes
Tonight: Times/YouGov regular weekly poll shows 3pt Tory lead. (Poll different to YouGov model but Tory lead same)

It's like watching Offaly in the 94 hurling final

Before you come in your trousers there is another poll showing the Tories 12 points ahead
the difference is all about the turnout of young people
Seems 2m young people have registered to vote since the election was called.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Avondhu star on June 01, 2017, 02:12:08 PM
Sam Coates Times

@SamCoatesTimes
Tonight: Times/YouGov regular weekly poll shows 3pt Tory lead. (Poll different to YouGov model but Tory lead same)

It's like watching Offaly in the 94 hurling final

Before you come in your trousers there is another poll showing the Tories 12 points ahead
the difference is all about the turnout of young people
Seems 2m young people have registered to vote since the election was called.

Fair play. Lets see how they react after a few tax hikes
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AhNowRef on June 01, 2017, 02:19:22 PM
Sam Coates Times

@SamCoatesTimes
Tonight: Times/YouGov regular weekly poll shows 3pt Tory lead. (Poll different to YouGov model but Tory lead same)

It's like watching Offaly in the 94 hurling final

Before you come in your trousers there is another poll showing the Tories 12 points ahead
the difference is all about the turnout of young people
Seems 2m young people have registered to vote since the election was called.

Fair play. Lets see how they react after a few tax hikes

What do you mean? ....... I doubt there's too many young people in the top 5% of earners ...

This is the problem with politics, when you get an "honest" man,  people either dont listen to what he says or they dont believe what he says .. which is it with you ?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Saffrongael on June 01, 2017, 02:32:10 PM
Lost a lot of respect for Corbyn when he did that "no seats" on train stunt, so showed how much of a man of the people he was by sitting on the floor between carriages.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on June 01, 2017, 02:35:44 PM
Lost a lot of respect for Corbyn when he did that "no seats" on train stunt, so showed how much of a man of the people he was by sitting on the floor between carriages.

The poor man is a puppet operated by Seumas Milne in cahoots with McDonnell.  This obviously a stunt enacted by Milne.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AhNowRef on June 01, 2017, 03:28:44 PM
Lost a lot of respect for Corbyn when he did that "no seats" on train stunt, so showed how much of a man of the people he was by sitting on the floor between carriages.

Yeah that was a silly stunt but if its the biggest issue you have with him then he mustn't be too bad...

and it was just that, a stunt ... He was only attempting to highlight a daily issue that season ticket holders in GB face EVERY single day .. and that cant be denied..
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Saffrongael on June 01, 2017, 03:34:03 PM
Lost a lot of respect for Corbyn when he did that "no seats" on train stunt, so showed how much of a man of the people he was by sitting on the floor between carriages.

Yeah that was a silly stunt but if its the biggest issue you have with him then he mustn't be too bad...

and it was just that, a stunt ... He was only attempting to highlight a daily issue that season ticket holders in GB face EVERY single day .. and that cant be denied..

No he said he was highlighting a wider issue when he got caught red handed, at the time it was being shared left right and centre on Facebook and the like, without the full story.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: macdanger2 on June 01, 2017, 03:38:34 PM
Sam Coates Times

@SamCoatesTimes
Tonight: Times/YouGov regular weekly poll shows 3pt Tory lead. (Poll different to YouGov model but Tory lead same)

It's like watching Offaly in the 94 hurling final

Before you come in your trousers there is another poll showing the Tories 12 points ahead
the difference is all about the turnout of young people
Seems 2m young people have registered to vote since the election was called.

Fair play. Lets see how they react after a few tax hikes

That's a fairly condescending attitude towards younger voters
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: armaghniac on June 01, 2017, 03:42:18 PM
If you are not a socialist when you are 20, then you have no heart.
If you are still a socialist when you are 40, then you have no brain.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AhNowRef on June 01, 2017, 03:45:09 PM
Lost a lot of respect for Corbyn when he did that "no seats" on train stunt, so showed how much of a man of the people he was by sitting on the floor between carriages.

Yeah that was a silly stunt but if its the biggest issue you have with him then he mustn't be too bad...

and it was just that, a stunt ... He was only attempting to highlight a daily issue that season ticket holders in GB face EVERY single day .. and that cant be denied..

No he said he was highlighting a wider issue when he got caught red handed, at the time it was being shared left right and centre on Facebook and the like, without the full story.

Yeah thats what I said  :-\

"He was only attempting to highlight a daily issue that season ticket holders in GB face EVERY single day "

he would have been better doing it when he "actually" had no seat but its hardly a capital sin .. it was a stunt !!
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 01, 2017, 05:28:08 PM
If you are not a socialist when you are 20, then you have no heart.
If you are still a socialist when you are 40, then you have no brain.
Not when the economic model is going tits up. If you don't support demand revenues are banjaxed.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Avondhu star on June 01, 2017, 07:00:33 PM
Sam Coates Times

@SamCoatesTimes
Tonight: Times/YouGov regular weekly poll shows 3pt Tory lead. (Poll different to YouGov model but Tory lead same)

It's like watching Offaly in the 94 hurling final

Before you come in your trousers there is another poll showing the Tories 12 points ahead
the difference is all about the turnout of young people
Seems 2m young people have registered to vote since the election was called.

Fair play. Lets see how they react after a few tax hikes

That's a fairly condescending attitude towards younger voters
Probably comes from years subsidising university students with my taxes who then enter the professions and rips the rest of us off with their fees
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: macdanger2 on June 01, 2017, 07:07:13 PM
If you've been at it years then those students are at least middle aged by now. And if they're in "professions" then they'll probably pay higher taxes under Labour than the Tories
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 01, 2017, 07:57:39 PM
Labour's policies would generate growth, unlike those of the Tories.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: omaghjoe on June 01, 2017, 08:41:32 PM
If you are not a socialist when you are 20, then you have no heart.
If you are still a socialist when you are 40, then you have no brain.

I'm well on the path now myself and starting to see this.

However..... I think it assumes a socialist within a free market economy
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: ashman on June 01, 2017, 09:28:58 PM
If you are not a socialist when you are 20, then you have no heart.
If you are still a socialist when you are 40, then you have no brain.

A mortgage makes one less socialist in worldview .
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Avondhu star on June 01, 2017, 09:34:31 PM
If you've been at it years then those students are at least middle aged by now. And if they're in "professions" then they'll probably pay higher taxes under Labour than the Tories

You'd think that wouldn't you. And gobshites like you actually think Labour would make a difference to working people. Rotten to the core with the legal profession
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: macdanger2 on June 01, 2017, 09:39:41 PM
If you've been at it years then those students are at least middle aged by now. And if they're in "professions" then they'll probably pay higher taxes under Labour than the Tories

You'd think that wouldn't you. And gobshites like you actually think Labour would make a difference to working people. Rotten to the core with the legal profession

 ;D ;D

I'm not a labour supporter and I don't have a vote. I was just wondering about your condescending attitude towards younger voters and your answer seemed fairly nonsensical. Nothing more than that.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Hotrocks on June 01, 2017, 09:42:16 PM
If you've been at it years then those students are at least middle aged by now. And if they're in "professions" then they'll probably pay higher taxes under Labour than the Tories

You'd think that wouldn't you. And gobshites like you actually think Labour would make a difference to working people. Rotten to the core with the legal profession

Has your mum gone and left you all alone tonight again?
Feel sorry for this poor cub.  Craving attention again. 
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Avondhu star on June 01, 2017, 09:58:46 PM
If you've been at it years then those students are at least middle aged by now. And if they're in "professions" then they'll probably pay higher taxes under Labour than the Tories

You'd think that wouldn't you. And gobshites like you actually think Labour would make a difference to working people. Rotten to the core with the legal profession

Has your mum gone and left you all alone tonight again?
Feel sorry for this poor cub.  Craving attention again.

We all know what you like to "feel"
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: sid waddell on June 01, 2017, 10:37:45 PM
If you are not a socialist when you are 20, then you have no heart.
If you are still a socialist when you are 40, then you have no brain.
Thank heavens we have posters here to provide us with such incisive political commentary and original wit.

Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: sid waddell on June 01, 2017, 10:39:39 PM

A mortgage makes one less socialist in worldview .
Expect a lot more socialists, so, given that mortgages are getting further and further out of the reach of so many ordinary people.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on June 02, 2017, 09:24:43 AM
Will SF repay Jeremy Corbyn for his hospitality in Westminster and support when every other party shunned and expelled them by taking their seats in a hung parliament to put him into No.10? 

With a potential and not unrealistic 6/7 MPs, SF could either form the timing point for a introduction of a Corbyn government by voting with him or allow the return of May by their absence.  Which would be the best scenario for them?  Probably favour return of May to ensure a hard Brexit and the re-establishment of the border to create the focus for continuous political agitation.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: OgraAnDun on June 02, 2017, 09:42:02 AM
Will SF repay Jeremy Corbyn for his hospitality in Westminster and support when every other party shunned and expelled them by taking their seats in a hung parliament to put him into No.10? 

With a potential and not unrealistic 6/7 MPs, SF could either form the timing point for a introduction of a Corbyn government by voting with him or allow the return of May by their absence.  Which would be the best scenario for them?  Probably favour return of May to ensure a hard Brexit and the re-establishment of the border to create the focus for continuous political agitation.

I'm in agreement. A hard border (or the border being moved to Stranraer/Heathrow) is probably a good thing for nationalism.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Farrandeelin on June 02, 2017, 09:52:13 AM
Will SF repay Jeremy Corbyn for his hospitality in Westminster and support when every other party shunned and expelled them by taking their seats in a hung parliament to put him into No.10? 

With a potential and not unrealistic 6/7 MPs, SF could either form the timing point for a introduction of a Corbyn government by voting with him or allow the return of May by their absence.  Which would be the best scenario for them?  Probably favour return of May to ensure a hard Brexit and the re-establishment of the border to create the focus for continuous political agitation.

Is May in favour of a hard Brexit?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on June 02, 2017, 09:56:54 AM
Will SF repay Jeremy Corbyn for his hospitality in Westminster and support when every other party shunned and expelled them by taking their seats in a hung parliament to put him into No.10? 

With a potential and not unrealistic 6/7 MPs, SF could either form the timing point for a introduction of a Corbyn government by voting with him or allow the return of May by their absence.  Which would be the best scenario for them?  Probably favour return of May to ensure a hard Brexit and the re-establishment of the border to create the focus for continuous political agitation.

Is May in favour of a hard Brexit?

She is the one who started, 'no deal is better than a poor deal', no remaining in the Single Market and no payments to EU or current or future liabilities.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 02, 2017, 09:58:24 AM
Will SF repay Jeremy Corbyn for his hospitality in Westminster and support when every other party shunned and expelled them by taking their seats in a hung parliament to put him into No.10? 

With a potential and not unrealistic 6/7 MPs, SF could either form the timing point for a introduction of a Corbyn government by voting with him or allow the return of May by their absence.  Which would be the best scenario for them?  Probably favour return of May to ensure a hard Brexit and the re-establishment of the border to create the focus for continuous political agitation.

Is May in favour of a hard Brexit?
I think she is heading for a dog's breakfast

She keeps on saying that no deal is better than a bad deal
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 02, 2017, 09:58:48 AM
https://www.tactical2017.com/
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 02, 2017, 10:01:14 AM
The magic money tree

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxM0swbuxQo
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: armaghniac on June 02, 2017, 10:24:56 AM
Will SF repay Jeremy Corbyn for his hospitality in Westminster and support when every other party shunned and expelled them by taking their seats in a hung parliament to put him into No.10? 

With a potential and not unrealistic 6/7 MPs, SF could either form the timing point for a introduction of a Corbyn government by voting with him or allow the return of May by their absence.  Which would be the best scenario for them?  Probably favour return of May to ensure a hard Brexit and the re-establishment of the border to create the focus for continuous political agitation.

However, given SFs inability to advance a concrete plan for a UI to take advantage of it and given the actual practical aggravation which a hard Brexit might cause to their voters, north and south, they cannot quite advocate a hard Brexit.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 02, 2017, 10:48:21 AM
Will SF repay Jeremy Corbyn for his hospitality in Westminster and support when every other party shunned and expelled them by taking their seats in a hung parliament to put him into No.10? 

With a potential and not unrealistic 6/7 MPs, SF could either form the timing point for a introduction of a Corbyn government by voting with him or allow the return of May by their absence.  Which would be the best scenario for them?  Probably favour return of May to ensure a hard Brexit and the re-establishment of the border to create the focus for continuous political agitation.

However, given SFs inability to advance a concrete plan for a UI to take advantage of it and given the actual practical aggravation which a hard Brexit might cause to their voters, north and south, they cannot quite advocate a hard Brexit.
If the Tories lose there won't be a hard Brexit.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Rossfan on June 02, 2017, 10:54:16 AM
Will SF repay Jeremy Corbyn for his hospitality in Westminster and support when every other party shunned and expelled them by taking their seats in a hung parliament to put him into No.10? 

With a potential and not unrealistic 6/7 MPs, SF could either form the timing point for a introduction of a Corbyn government by voting with him or allow the return of May by their absence.  Which would be the best scenario for them?  Probably favour return of May to ensure a hard Brexit and the re-establishment of the border to create the focus for continuous political agitation.
Will the Oath of Allegiance to a Sectarian Monarchy be removed?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AQMP on June 02, 2017, 10:57:38 AM
Will SF repay Jeremy Corbyn for his hospitality in Westminster and support when every other party shunned and expelled them by taking their seats in a hung parliament to put him into No.10?

No.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Keyser soze on June 02, 2017, 11:01:27 AM
Did anyone see the debate amongst the South Belfast candidates on 'The View' last night?

I thought it was completely dominated by O Muilleoir who completely owned Pengelly when she started to try to corner him re the Manchester bombing, asking him to apologise for the IRA Manchester bomb....to which he replied it was a bit rich her asking that when her father had been importing weapons to NI for loyalists....OUCH.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Minder on June 02, 2017, 11:09:21 AM
Did anyone see the debate amongst the South Belfast candidates on 'The View' last night?

I thought it was completely dominated by O Muilleoir who completely owned Pengelly when she started to try to corner him re the Manchester bombing, asking him to apologise for the IRA Manchester bomb....to which he replied it was a bit rich her asking that when her father had been importing weapons to NI for loyalists....OUCH.

And how does any of that help or pass as politics ? It's like groundhog day
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Kilkevan on June 02, 2017, 11:12:33 AM
Did anyone see the debate amongst the South Belfast candidates on 'The View' last night?

I thought it was completely dominated by O Muilleoir who completely owned Pengelly when she started to try to corner him re the Manchester bombing, asking him to apologise for the IRA Manchester bomb....to which he replied it was a bit rich her asking that when her father had been importing weapons to NI for loyalists....OUCH.

And how does any of that help or pass as politics ? It's like groundhog day

Ask Pengelly...
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Minder on June 02, 2017, 11:14:52 AM
Did anyone see the debate amongst the South Belfast candidates on 'The View' last night?

I thought it was completely dominated by O Muilleoir who completely owned Pengelly when she started to try to corner him re the Manchester bombing, asking him to apologise for the IRA Manchester bomb....to which he replied it was a bit rich her asking that when her father had been importing weapons to NI for loyalists....OUCH.

And how does any of that help or pass as politics ? It's like groundhog day

Ask Pengelly...

I know but it's fckn depressing, I don't watch any of those local politics shows anymore because of this nonsense
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AQMP on June 02, 2017, 11:27:26 AM
Tory MP Craig Mackinlay and two aides charged over fiddling election expenses at last election.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-40129826
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: sid waddell on June 02, 2017, 11:41:22 AM
Will SF repay Jeremy Corbyn for his hospitality in Westminster and support when every other party shunned and expelled them by taking their seats in a hung parliament to put him into No.10? 

With a potential and not unrealistic 6/7 MPs, SF could either form the timing point for a introduction of a Corbyn government by voting with him or allow the return of May by their absence.  Which would be the best scenario for them?  Probably favour return of May to ensure a hard Brexit and the re-establishment of the border to create the focus for continuous political agitation.

However, given SFs inability to advance a concrete plan for a UI to take advantage of it and given the actual practical aggravation which a hard Brexit might cause to their voters, north and south, they cannot quite advocate a hard Brexit.
If the Tories lose there won't be a hard Brexit.

Labour's negotiating team of Corbyn, Keir Starmer, Emily Thornberry and Barry Gardiner is miles better than the Tories team of Theresa the Trump appeaser, David Davis, Liam Foxhunter and  ;DBoris Johnson ;D.

Both in an intellectual sense and in terms of existing relations with other major European parties. Labour hasn't burned its bridges with Europe like the Tories have done and Europe will be much more open to a Labour negotiating team.

The Labour team would be going to negotiate.

The Tories variously think they're going to fight a war/engage in an infantile Twitter trolling session against Europe.

They're clueless on Brexit, and that's supposed to be their "strong" issue?!  ;D

Given that Labour are now running rings around them on their "strong issue", what does it tell you about the rest of the Tories' policies?

They're a fooking joke.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: sid waddell on June 02, 2017, 11:45:10 AM
Will SF repay Jeremy Corbyn for his hospitality in Westminster and support when every other party shunned and expelled them by taking their seats in a hung parliament to put him into No.10? 

With a potential and not unrealistic 6/7 MPs, SF could either form the timing point for a introduction of a Corbyn government by voting with him or allow the return of May by their absence.  Which would be the best scenario for them?  Probably favour return of May to ensure a hard Brexit and the re-establishment of the border to create the focus for continuous political agitation.

Is May in favour of a hard Brexit?
I think she is heading for a dog's breakfast

She keeps on saying that no deal is better than a bad deal
No Theresa May is better than a bad Theresa May.

That's what Lynton Crosby thinks, anyway, given that he's muzzled her media appearances after what will no doubt be another car crash on Question time tonight.

Could you imagine the reaction if this was happening with Corbyn?

She genuinely doesn't have the ability to function as a Prime Minister.

Britain is facing utter disaster if they re-elect the Tories.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AQMP on June 02, 2017, 11:53:00 AM
May's performance in this campaign has been truly awful.  She's not a natural in front of the cameras and cannot think on her feet.  She's obviously been told to laugh off questions she cannot answer but when she does the laughing bit it comes across as idiotic and cringeworthy.  However I still expect the Tories to get a 50+ majority.

May, Fox, Davis and Johnson in charge of Brexit??  Johnny Foreigner will run rings round them.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Rossfan on June 02, 2017, 11:57:27 AM
However I still expect the Tories to get a 50+ majority.
Are the English and Welsh really that thick????
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: johnneycool on June 02, 2017, 11:59:44 AM
Did anyone see the debate amongst the South Belfast candidates on 'The View' last night?

I thought it was completely dominated by O Muilleoir who completely owned Pengelly when she started to try to corner him re the Manchester bombing, asking him to apologise for the IRA Manchester bomb....to which he replied it was a bit rich her asking that when her father had been importing weapons to NI for loyalists....OUCH.

And how does any of that help or pass as politics ? It's like groundhog day

Ask Pengelly...

It was whataboutery at its highest level but Pengelly had it coming to her after trying to corner Máirtín Ó Muilleoir on the Manchester bombings....
That aside I think McDonnell did nothing to enhance his chances, UUP nice but irrelevant, Alliance girl was decent enough and wasn't going to bullied by the pro lifers in the audience.
All a bit meh, but leaps and bounds better than our sitting MP, Jim expenses Shannon FFS.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AhNowRef on June 02, 2017, 12:02:20 PM
Did anyone see the debate amongst the South Belfast candidates on 'The View' last night?

I thought it was completely dominated by O Muilleoir who completely owned Pengelly when she started to try to corner him re the Manchester bombing, asking him to apologise for the IRA Manchester bomb....to which he replied it was a bit rich her asking that when her father had been importing weapons to NI for loyalists....OUCH.

And how does any of that help or pass as politics ? It's like groundhog day

Ask Pengelly...

I know but it's fckn depressing, I don't watch any of those local politics shows anymore because of this nonsense

Yeah but what was he supposed to do .. let her rant away and say nothing ?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Kilkevan on June 02, 2017, 12:05:11 PM
If you are not a socialist when you are 20, then you have no heart.
If you are still a socialist when you are 40, then you have no brain.

With political insight like that, who needs Paxman  ::)
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Minder on June 02, 2017, 12:06:16 PM
Will SF repay Jeremy Corbyn for his hospitality in Westminster and support when every other party shunned and expelled them by taking their seats in a hung parliament to put him into No.10? 

With a potential and not unrealistic 6/7 MPs, SF could either form the timing point for a introduction of a Corbyn government by voting with him or allow the return of May by their absence.  Which would be the best scenario for them?  Probably favour return of May to ensure a hard Brexit and the re-establishment of the border to create the focus for continuous political agitation.

However, given SFs inability to advance a concrete plan for a UI to take advantage of it and given the actual practical aggravation which a hard Brexit might cause to their voters, north and south, they cannot quite advocate a hard Brexit.
If the Tories lose there won't be a hard Brexit.

Labour's negotiating team of Corbyn, Keir Starmer, Emily Thornberry and Barry Gardiner is miles better than the Tories team of Theresa the Trump appeaser, David Davis, Liam Foxhunter and  ;DBoris Johnson ;D.

Both in an intellectual sense and in terms of existing relations with other major European parties. Labour hasn't burned its bridges with Europe like the Tories have done and Europe will be much more open to a Labour negotiating team.

The Labour team would be going to negotiate.

The Tories variously think they're going to fight a war/engage in an infantile Twitter trolling session against Europe.

They're clueless on Brexit, and that's supposed to be their "strong" issue?!  ;D

Given that Labour are now running rings around them on their "strong issue", what does it tell you about the rest of the Tories' policies?

They're a fooking joke.

The same Emily Thornberry who said the other day they couldn't export food to Australia as it would "go off"? Aye intellectual powerhouse by the sound of it
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AhNowRef on June 02, 2017, 12:09:43 PM
Did anyone see the debate amongst the South Belfast candidates on 'The View' last night?

I thought it was completely dominated by O Muilleoir who completely owned Pengelly when she started to try to corner him re the Manchester bombing, asking him to apologise for the IRA Manchester bomb....to which he replied it was a bit rich her asking that when her father had been importing weapons to NI for loyalists....OUCH.

And how does any of that help or pass as politics ? It's like groundhog day

Ask Pengelly...

It was whataboutery at its highest level but Pengelly had it coming to her after trying to corner Máirtín Ó Muilleoir on the Manchester bombings....
That aside I think McDonnell did nothing to enhance his chances, UUP nice but irrelevant, Alliance girl was decent enough and wasn't going to bullied by the pro lifers in the audience.
All a bit meh, but leaps and bounds better than our sitting MP, Jim expenses Shannon FFS.

McDonnell is a disaster ... He is the only Nationalist who seems constantly capable of coming across even more smug & condescending than the DUP !! ... and that takes some doing..
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AQMP on June 02, 2017, 12:10:29 PM
However I still expect the Tories to get a 50+ majority.
Are the English and Welsh really that thick????

Yes.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Declan on June 02, 2017, 12:43:43 PM
https://www.facebook.com/TRTP2/videos/824044807754441/ (https://www.facebook.com/TRTP2/videos/824044807754441/)

Love this
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Kilkevan on June 02, 2017, 01:39:57 PM
Did anyone see the debate amongst the South Belfast candidates on 'The View' last night?

I thought it was completely dominated by O Muilleoir who completely owned Pengelly when she started to try to corner him re the Manchester bombing, asking him to apologise for the IRA Manchester bomb....to which he replied it was a bit rich her asking that when her father had been importing weapons to NI for loyalists....OUCH.

And how does any of that help or pass as politics ? It's like groundhog day

Ask Pengelly...

It was whataboutery at its highest level but Pengelly had it coming to her after trying to corner Máirtín Ó Muilleoir on the Manchester bombings....

She picked a fight, he put her back in her box, nothing whataboutery there. What was he supposed to do differently?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 02, 2017, 02:04:37 PM
Will SF repay Jeremy Corbyn for his hospitality in Westminster and support when every other party shunned and expelled them by taking their seats in a hung parliament to put him into No.10? 

With a potential and not unrealistic 6/7 MPs, SF could either form the timing point for a introduction of a Corbyn government by voting with him or allow the return of May by their absence.  Which would be the best scenario for them?  Probably favour return of May to ensure a hard Brexit and the re-establishment of the border to create the focus for continuous political agitation.

However, given SFs inability to advance a concrete plan for a UI to take advantage of it and given the actual practical aggravation which a hard Brexit might cause to their voters, north and south, they cannot quite advocate a hard Brexit.
If the Tories lose there won't be a hard Brexit.

Labour's negotiating team of Corbyn, Keir Starmer, Emily Thornberry and Barry Gardiner is miles better than the Tories team of Theresa the Trump appeaser, David Davis, Liam Foxhunter and  ;DBoris Johnson ;D.

Both in an intellectual sense and in terms of existing relations with other major European parties. Labour hasn't burned its bridges with Europe like the Tories have done and Europe will be much more open to a Labour negotiating team.

The Labour team would be going to negotiate.

The Tories variously think they're going to fight a war/engage in an infantile Twitter trolling session against Europe.

They're clueless on Brexit, and that's supposed to be their "strong" issue?!  ;D

Given that Labour are now running rings around them on their "strong issue", what does it tell you about the rest of the Tories' policies?

They're a fooking joke.

The same Emily Thornberry who said the other day they couldn't export food to Australia as it would "go off"? Aye intellectual powerhouse by the sound of it
A lot of dairy products go off pretty quickly.Can't be flown. Fresh meat too. NZ exports frozen stuff.
Most UK food exports go to the EU. And they won't be able to find replacement markets for a lot of the stuff. 
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Kilkevan on June 02, 2017, 03:02:07 PM
Will SF repay Jeremy Corbyn for his hospitality in Westminster and support when every other party shunned and expelled them by taking their seats in a hung parliament to put him into No.10? 

With a potential and not unrealistic 6/7 MPs, SF could either form the timing point for a introduction of a Corbyn government by voting with him or allow the return of May by their absence.  Which would be the best scenario for them?  Probably favour return of May to ensure a hard Brexit and the re-establishment of the border to create the focus for continuous political agitation.

However, given SFs inability to advance a concrete plan for a UI to take advantage of it and given the actual practical aggravation which a hard Brexit might cause to their voters, north and south, they cannot quite advocate a hard Brexit.
If the Tories lose there won't be a hard Brexit.

Labour's negotiating team of Corbyn, Keir Starmer, Emily Thornberry and Barry Gardiner is miles better than the Tories team of Theresa the Trump appeaser, David Davis, Liam Foxhunter and  ;DBoris Johnson ;D.

Both in an intellectual sense and in terms of existing relations with other major European parties. Labour hasn't burned its bridges with Europe like the Tories have done and Europe will be much more open to a Labour negotiating team.

The Labour team would be going to negotiate.

The Tories variously think they're going to fight a war/engage in an infantile Twitter trolling session against Europe.

They're clueless on Brexit, and that's supposed to be their "strong" issue?!  ;D

Given that Labour are now running rings around them on their "strong issue", what does it tell you about the rest of the Tories' policies?

They're a fooking joke.

The same Emily Thornberry who said the other day they couldn't export food to Australia as it would "go off"? Aye intellectual powerhouse by the sound of it
A lot of dairy products go off pretty quickly.Can't be flown. Fresh meat too. NZ exports frozen stuff.
Most UK food exports go to the EU. And they won't be able to find replacement markets for a lot of the stuff.

I'm not disputing the correctness of this but I'd like to see a breakdown per country of where UK food exports go. I imagine most to Ireland as UK foodstuffs don't have a great reputation in nations with a greater history of fine cuisine like France or Italy.

Personally, I think Brexit will bring minimal change. Take food products as a prime example. In France, Italy and other wine producing EU countries you can get a very good bottle of wine for a couple of euro. In the UK, you're looking at at least ten pounds and even then it's invariably of the quality a Frenchman or an Italian would pour down the drain. I can't imagine wine producers are going to want to lose access to a market where they can sell substandard versions of their products for vastly inflated prices.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 02, 2017, 03:21:22 PM
Will SF repay Jeremy Corbyn for his hospitality in Westminster and support when every other party shunned and expelled them by taking their seats in a hung parliament to put him into No.10? 

With a potential and not unrealistic 6/7 MPs, SF could either form the timing point for a introduction of a Corbyn government by voting with him or allow the return of May by their absence.  Which would be the best scenario for them?  Probably favour return of May to ensure a hard Brexit and the re-establishment of the border to create the focus for continuous political agitation.

However, given SFs inability to advance a concrete plan for a UI to take advantage of it and given the actual practical aggravation which a hard Brexit might cause to their voters, north and south, they cannot quite advocate a hard Brexit.
If the Tories lose there won't be a hard Brexit.

Labour's negotiating team of Corbyn, Keir Starmer, Emily Thornberry and Barry Gardiner is miles better than the Tories team of Theresa the Trump appeaser, David Davis, Liam Foxhunter and  ;DBoris Johnson ;D.

Both in an intellectual sense and in terms of existing relations with other major European parties. Labour hasn't burned its bridges with Europe like the Tories have done and Europe will be much more open to a Labour negotiating team.

The Labour team would be going to negotiate.

The Tories variously think they're going to fight a war/engage in an infantile Twitter trolling session against Europe.

They're clueless on Brexit, and that's supposed to be their "strong" issue?!  ;D

Given that Labour are now running rings around them on their "strong issue", what does it tell you about the rest of the Tories' policies?

They're a fooking joke.

The same Emily Thornberry who said the other day they couldn't export food to Australia as it would "go off"? Aye intellectual powerhouse by the sound of it
A lot of dairy products go off pretty quickly.Can't be flown. Fresh meat too. NZ exports frozen stuff.
Most UK food exports go to the EU. And they won't be able to find replacement markets for a lot of the stuff.

I'm not disputing the correctness of this but I'd like to see a breakdown per country of where UK food exports go. I imagine most to Ireland as UK foodstuffs don't have a great reputation in nations with a greater history of fine cuisine like France or Italy.

Personally, I think Brexit will bring minimal change. Take food products as a prime example. In France, Italy and other wine producing EU countries you can get a very good bottle of wine for a couple of euro. In the UK, you're looking at at least ten pounds and even then it's invariably of the quality a Frenchman or an Italian would pour down the drain. I can't imagine wine producers are going to want to lose access to a market where they can sell substandard versions of their products for vastly inflated prices.
If you are paying a tenner for wine I wine I would advise you to contact the gaaboard wine correspondent, Mr Milltown Row.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AhNowRef on June 02, 2017, 04:55:34 PM
Will SF repay Jeremy Corbyn for his hospitality in Westminster and support when every other party shunned and expelled them by taking their seats in a hung parliament to put him into No.10? 

With a potential and not unrealistic 6/7 MPs, SF could either form the timing point for a introduction of a Corbyn government by voting with him or allow the return of May by their absence.  Which would be the best scenario for them?  Probably favour return of May to ensure a hard Brexit and the re-establishment of the border to create the focus for continuous political agitation.

However, given SFs inability to advance a concrete plan for a UI to take advantage of it and given the actual practical aggravation which a hard Brexit might cause to their voters, north and south, they cannot quite advocate a hard Brexit.
If the Tories lose there won't be a hard Brexit.

Labour's negotiating team of Corbyn, Keir Starmer, Emily Thornberry and Barry Gardiner is miles better than the Tories team of Theresa the Trump appeaser, David Davis, Liam Foxhunter and  ;DBoris Johnson ;D.

Both in an intellectual sense and in terms of existing relations with other major European parties. Labour hasn't burned its bridges with Europe like the Tories have done and Europe will be much more open to a Labour negotiating team.

The Labour team would be going to negotiate.

The Tories variously think they're going to fight a war/engage in an infantile Twitter trolling session against Europe.

They're clueless on Brexit, and that's supposed to be their "strong" issue?!  ;D

Given that Labour are now running rings around them on their "strong issue", what does it tell you about the rest of the Tories' policies?

They're a fooking joke.

The same Emily Thornberry who said the other day they couldn't export food to Australia as it would "go off"? Aye intellectual powerhouse by the sound of it
A lot of dairy products go off pretty quickly.Can't be flown. Fresh meat too. NZ exports frozen stuff.
Most UK food exports go to the EU. And they won't be able to find replacement markets for a lot of the stuff.

I'm not disputing the correctness of this but I'd like to see a breakdown per country of where UK food exports go. I imagine most to Ireland as UK foodstuffs don't have a great reputation in nations with a greater history of fine cuisine like France or Italy.

Personally, I think Brexit will bring minimal change. Take food products as a prime example. In France, Italy and other wine producing EU countries you can get a very good bottle of wine for a couple of euro. In the UK, you're looking at at least ten pounds and even then it's invariably of the quality a Frenchman or an Italian would pour down the drain. I can't imagine wine producers are going to want to lose access to a market where they can sell substandard versions of their products for vastly inflated prices.

Re food stuffs .... Just one example of a huge issue that Brexit would bring to Farmers over here is the fact that GB would probably have to do deals with the Americas which would lead to the importing of very cheap beef etc.. ... even though its not allowed at present it would be then .. and its full of mad dog catweeazle dust  :o

Farmers = Fooked
Consumers = Fooked (but temporarily happy cause its cheap!!)
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 02, 2017, 06:32:21 PM
Will SF repay Jeremy Corbyn for his hospitality in Westminster and support when every other party shunned and expelled them by taking their seats in a hung parliament to put him into No.10? 

With a potential and not unrealistic 6/7 MPs, SF could either form the timing point for a introduction of a Corbyn government by voting with him or allow the return of May by their absence.  Which would be the best scenario for them?  Probably favour return of May to ensure a hard Brexit and the re-establishment of the border to create the focus for continuous political agitation.

However, given SFs inability to advance a concrete plan for a UI to take advantage of it and given the actual practical aggravation which a hard Brexit might cause to their voters, north and south, they cannot quite advocate a hard Brexit.
If the Tories lose there won't be a hard Brexit.

Labour's negotiating team of Corbyn, Keir Starmer, Emily Thornberry and Barry Gardiner is miles better than the Tories team of Theresa the Trump appeaser, David Davis, Liam Foxhunter and  ;DBoris Johnson ;D.

Both in an intellectual sense and in terms of existing relations with other major European parties. Labour hasn't burned its bridges with Europe like the Tories have done and Europe will be much more open to a Labour negotiating team.

The Labour team would be going to negotiate.

The Tories variously think they're going to fight a war/engage in an infantile Twitter trolling session against Europe.

They're clueless on Brexit, and that's supposed to be their "strong" issue?!  ;D

Given that Labour are now running rings around them on their "strong issue", what does it tell you about the rest of the Tories' policies?

They're a fooking joke.

The same Emily Thornberry who said the other day they couldn't export food to Australia as it would "go off"? Aye intellectual powerhouse by the sound of it
A lot of dairy products go off pretty quickly.Can't be flown. Fresh meat too. NZ exports frozen stuff.
Most UK food exports go to the EU. And they won't be able to find replacement markets for a lot of the stuff.

I'm not disputing the correctness of this but I'd like to see a breakdown per country of where UK food exports go. I imagine most to Ireland as UK foodstuffs don't have a great reputation in nations with a greater history of fine cuisine like France or Italy.

Personally, I think Brexit will bring minimal change. Take food products as a prime example. In France, Italy and other wine producing EU countries you can get a very good bottle of wine for a couple of euro. In the UK, you're looking at at least ten pounds and even then it's invariably of the quality a Frenchman or an Italian would pour down the drain. I can't imagine wine producers are going to want to lose access to a market where they can sell substandard versions of their products for vastly inflated prices.
If you are paying a tenner for wine I wine I would advise you to contact the gaaboard wine correspondent, Mr Milltown Row.

You can pay a lot more than a tenner if you like, but still a fiver round here! Those Tenner bottles must be down south!
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Avondhu star on June 02, 2017, 06:37:06 PM
Did anyone see the debate amongst the South Belfast candidates on 'The View' last night?

I thought it was completely dominated by O Muilleoir who completely owned Pengelly when she started to try to corner him re the Manchester bombing, asking him to apologise for the IRA Manchester bomb....to which he replied it was a bit rich her asking that when her father had been importing weapons to NI for loyalists....OUCH.

And how does any of that help or pass as politics ? It's like groundhog day

Ask Pengelly...

It was whataboutery at its highest level but Pengelly had it coming to her after trying to corner Máirtín Ó Muilleoir on the Manchester bombings....

She picked a fight, he put her back in her box, nothing whataboutery there. What was he supposed to do differently?
Putting their opponents in a box is a Shinner speciality
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: bennydorano on June 02, 2017, 07:25:12 PM
Touche
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Applesisapples on June 02, 2017, 07:43:43 PM
On the wine, anything less than £8 and its muck, about a tenner now is the fiver of 5 or 6 years ago. On May she is as odious as Trump with out being as funny. On Brexit it is slowly dawning on the leavers that the EU holds all the cards. The North's corner will be better served by the Irish Government who understand the impact of brexit on the all island economy.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 02, 2017, 08:57:59 PM
Ken Loach video for Labour

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28-fC6_Byu0
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 02, 2017, 09:56:24 PM
On the wine, anything less than £8 and its muck, about a tenner now is the fiver of 5 or 6 years ago. On May she is as odious as Trump with out being as funny. On Brexit it is slowly dawning on the leavers that the EU holds all the cards. The North's corner will be better served by the Irish Government who understand the impact of brexit on the all island economy.

Take the time to shift through the Tesco wine online, amazing value with some 25% off on offers...

As for the South they will suffer with the no deals with Britain if it's a hard brexit
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: imtommygunn on June 02, 2017, 09:59:08 PM
May not doing too eell tonight by all accounts. First question basically called her a flat out liar lol.

I am beginning to dislike her as much as arlene. The two have some very similar characteristics and none of them positive.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: armaghniac on June 02, 2017, 10:12:44 PM
As for the South they will suffer with the no deals with Britain if it's a hard brexit

Yes, no more Buckfast, people will have to make do with Chateauneuf de Pape, Brunello di Montalcino and suchlike. Woe indeed.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 02, 2017, 10:22:37 PM
On the wine, anything less than £8 and its muck, about a tenner now is the fiver of 5 or 6 years ago. On May she is as odious as Trump with out being as funny. On Brexit it is slowly dawning on the leavers that the EU holds all the cards. The North's corner will be better served by the Irish Government who understand the impact of brexit on the all island economy.

Take the time to shift through the Tesco wine online, amazing value with some 25% off on offers...

As for the South they will suffer with the no deals with Britain if it's a hard brexit
Nordies will be unable to afford delicacies such as chocolate kimberley,  Barrys tea and Club Orange as sterling reaches terminal velocity against the Euro.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: sid waddell on June 02, 2017, 10:49:04 PM
May not doing too eell tonight by all accounts. First question basically called her a flat out liar lol.

I am beginning to dislike her as much as arlene. The two have some very similar characteristics and none of them positive.
May is a talking parrot, and that's an insult to talking parrots.

She told a blatant lie that Diane Abbott wanted to remove criminals from DNA databases.

She didn't even know her own government was giving foreign aid to North Korea.

Corbyn is the only competent potential Prime Minister on the campaign.

May is finished.





Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Carmen Stateside on June 02, 2017, 10:54:55 PM
Anyone watching Boris on BBC2? My god he's pathetic
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: BennyHarp on June 02, 2017, 11:05:40 PM
The audience on Question Time seemed very keen on ensuring that nuking someone/anyone was the main thing they were looking for in their new Prime Minister. I also find it strange that Corbyn is accursed of being a pacifist and a terrorist sympathiser in the same discussion.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: sid waddell on June 02, 2017, 11:08:03 PM
Anyone watching Boris on BBC2? My god he's pathetic

If you think his performance on Newsnight was bad (and it was), check this out from earlier this evening on Sky News:

https://twitter.com/SPKing1984/status/870711934164680704?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.redcafe.net%2Fthreads%2Fgeneral-election-2017.428257%2Fpage-207
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on June 02, 2017, 11:12:22 PM
Here's a fact check from the IFS to show how Corbyn claims are wrong:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Minder on June 02, 2017, 11:15:12 PM
Here's a fact check from the IFS to show how Corbyn claims are wrong:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Try telling that to Seafoid
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: armaghniac on June 02, 2017, 11:27:29 PM
The above chart shows that bottom third of people did pretty well, bar the very lowest. This would typically those in poorly paid jobs, which seems like exactly the people to help
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: heganboy on June 03, 2017, 12:20:19 AM
In case there are issues around the basics of economics, or you know, life.
Under every political regime, the richest do best...
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 03, 2017, 03:22:17 AM
Will SF repay Jeremy Corbyn for his hospitality in Westminster and support when every other party shunned and expelled them by taking their seats in a hung parliament to put him into No.10? 

With a potential and not unrealistic 6/7 MPs, SF could either form the timing point for a introduction of a Corbyn government by voting with him or allow the return of May by their absence.  Which would be the best scenario for them?  Probably favour return of May to ensure a hard Brexit and the re-establishment of the border to create the focus for continuous political agitation.

However, given SFs inability to advance a concrete plan for a UI to take advantage of it and given the actual practical aggravation which a hard Brexit might cause to their voters, north and south, they cannot quite advocate a hard Brexit.
If the Tories lose there won't be a hard Brexit.

Labour's negotiating team of Corbyn, Keir Starmer, Emily Thornberry and Barry Gardiner is miles better than the Tories team of Theresa the Trump appeaser, David Davis, Liam Foxhunter and  ;DBoris Johnson ;D.

Both in an intellectual sense and in terms of existing relations with other major European parties. Labour hasn't burned its bridges with Europe like the Tories have done and Europe will be much more open to a Labour negotiating team.

The Labour team would be going to negotiate.

The Tories variously think they're going to fight a war/engage in an infantile Twitter trolling session against Europe.

They're clueless on Brexit, and that's supposed to be their "strong" issue?!  ;D

Given that Labour are now running rings around them on their "strong issue", what does it tell you about the rest of the Tories' policies?

They're a fooking joke.

The same Emily Thornberry who said the other day they couldn't export food to Australia as it would "go off"? Aye intellectual powerhouse by the sound of it
A lot of dairy products go off pretty quickly.Can't be flown. Fresh meat too. NZ exports frozen stuff.
Most UK food exports go to the EU. And they won't be able to find replacement markets for a lot of the stuff.

I'm not disputing the correctness of this but I'd like to see a breakdown per country of where UK food exports go. I imagine most to Ireland as UK foodstuffs don't have a great reputation in nations with a greater history of fine cuisine like France or Italy.

Personally, I think Brexit will bring minimal change. Take food products as a prime example. In France, Italy and other wine producing EU countries you can get a very good bottle of wine for a couple of euro. In the UK, you're looking at at least ten pounds and even then it's invariably of the quality a Frenchman or an Italian would pour down the drain. I can't imagine wine producers are going to want to lose access to a market where they can sell substandard versions of their products for vastly inflated prices.
The supply chains for the supermarkrts feeding ordinary people in Europe take ingredients from everywhere. Aldi and Lidl are high volume low margin like other companies and might use cuts of UK mince for lasagne sold everywhere . They take the best price/quality product from everywhere and sell it across all their markets.

 You don't want to look too closely at how value burges from say Findus or Tesco  are put together. UK milk might go into desserts sold in Greece and Poland . The key point is low margin. Most people in Europe haven't had a pay rise for a long time. They can't afford to pay more .
Brexit will make UK ingredients unaffordable. 

The idea that French people only drink quality wine is mistaken.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 03, 2017, 07:36:28 AM
May not doing too eell tonight by all accounts. First question basically called her a flat out liar lol.

I am beginning to dislike her as much as arlene. The two have some very similar characteristics and none of them positive.
May is a talking parrot, and that's an insult to talking parrots.

She told a blatant lie that Diane Abbott wanted to remove criminals from DNA databases.

She didn't even know her own government was giving foreign aid to North Korea.

Corbyn is the only competent potential Prime Minister on the campaign.

May is finished.
She is a liability.  There are no face to face debates because Corbyn would wipe the floor with her.
She reminds me of the Wizard of Oz. The Tories are reduced to attacking Corbyn on nuclear war. It is insane.
The Tories are desperately trying to hang on to a poll lead that is reduced every time she opens her mouth. If there wasn't an election next week they would dump her.


She wouldn't answer when asked whether the UK will have in place a full contingency plan — including legal provisions, international treaties and the hiring of thousands of regulators and customs officers — just in case it crashes out of the EU in 2019.

And WTO means 40% tariffs on food because nobody is stupid enough to trade on WTO terms for food. It's called World Träde Food. WTF
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on June 03, 2017, 08:08:08 AM
I find it hard to believe that:

When the disabled man asked about the effect of the social care policy on him and whether it would bankrupt him, May did not follow up with a proper explanation of the policy.  The man had the total wrong idea and believed his money would be taken during his life when the policy takes all of your assets when you die and you have access to all during your life.  She totally blew this opportunity to destroy the false arguments against the policy and to emphasise that you can keep four times the amount currently left to you by the govt and you lose nothing during your life.

She missed a great opportunity to show a human side to herself in dealing with the blind woman with mental health issues.  It would have taken nothing to use her position to say to the woman that she was appalled at her treatment by the agency assessing her fitness for work and she would meet with her after the show to discuss her situation and see what could be done as any MP in a constituency clinic would do.

Corbyn has made pledges during the last week outside of the manifesto which amount to close to £8bn, e.g. paying off all current student debt, and no one has brought this to the fore and challenged him.  When challenged by audience members about collecting this money via corporate tax that companies would just leave the country and go to other lower tax countries Corbyn's answer was just, no they won't.  He claimed his higher tax rate would be the same or lower than other countries wasn't challenged given the rate of his near neighbours in RoI.

A quarter of the labour new spend in its manifesto is down to paying student fees and grants for future students in the next five years.  This is a sop to the middle classes who make up the vast majority of the students going to university, so much for the many and not the few.  How can this be a good use of billions when the economy is stagnant and statistics show that student fees and loans have not deterred any section of society from going to university and where there has been any downturn it has been in the upper salary sectors where the reluctance of taking on debt and access to immediate good employment or training for good jobs is available.

Just four thoughts this morning.

Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 03, 2017, 08:18:36 AM
She is getting  hammered in the polls

https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/theresa-mays-personal-ratings-fall-labour-reduces-conservative-lead
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: imtommygunn on June 03, 2017, 08:37:01 AM
Polls have been highly inaccurate of late though.

I think she will still win but the longer time goes on the more votes she loses. If she wins i am not convinced she will hold on to tory party leadership.

I wonder will gove or johnson then make a push for leadership. Well more than likely gove.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 03, 2017, 08:57:40 AM
I find it hard to believe that:

When the disabled man asked about the effect of the social care policy on him and whether it would bankrupt him, May did not follow up with a proper explanation of the policy.  The man had the total wrong idea and believed his money would be taken during his life when the policy takes all of your assets when you die and you have access to all during your life.  She totally blew this opportunity to destroy the false arguments against the policy and to emphasise that you can keep four times the amount currently left to you by the govt and you lose nothing during your life.

She missed a great opportunity to show a human side to herself in dealing with the blind woman with mental health issues.  It would have taken nothing to use her position to say to the woman that she was appalled at her treatment by the agency assessing her fitness for work and she would meet with her after the show to discuss her situation and see what could be done as any MP in a constituency clinic would do.

Corbyn has made pledges during the last week outside of the manifesto which amount to close to £8bn, e.g. paying off all current student debt, and no one has brought this to the fore and challenged him.  When challenged by audience members about collecting this money via corporate tax that companies would just leave the country and go to other lower tax countries Corbyn's answer was just, no they won't.  He claimed his higher tax rate would be the same or lower than other countries wasn't challenged given the rate of his near neighbours in RoI.

A quarter of the labour new spend in its manifesto is down to paying student fees and grants for future students in the next five years.  This is a sop to the middle classes who make up the vast majority of the students going to university, so much for the many and not the few.  How can this be a good use of billions when the economy is stagnant and statistics show that student fees and loans have not deterred any section of society from going to university and where there has been any downturn it has been in the upper salary sectors where the reluctance of taking on debt and access to immediate good employment or training for good jobs is available.

Just four thoughts this morning.
Labour policies are more likely to generate growth. That would keep companies around. At some point the excess profit of companies will have to be redistributed to consumers. How to do that is the big question.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Kilkevan on June 03, 2017, 10:55:01 AM
Did anyone see the debate amongst the South Belfast candidates on 'The View' last night?

I thought it was completely dominated by O Muilleoir who completely owned Pengelly when she started to try to corner him re the Manchester bombing, asking him to apologise for the IRA Manchester bomb....to which he replied it was a bit rich her asking that when her father had been importing weapons to NI for loyalists....OUCH.

And how does any of that help or pass as politics ? It's like groundhog day

Ask Pengelly...

It was whataboutery at its highest level but Pengelly had it coming to her after trying to corner Máirtín Ó Muilleoir on the Manchester bombings....

She picked a fight, he put her back in her box, nothing whataboutery there. What was he supposed to do differently?
Putting their opponents in a box is a Shinner speciality

Yawn!
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AQMP on June 03, 2017, 10:59:16 AM
Watched a recording of the debate just there. Nil all draw. Best bit was all those puffy faced aul duffers getting in a lather because Corbyn wouldn't guarantee to blow everybody up!
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Kilkevan on June 03, 2017, 11:05:27 AM
On the wine, anything less than £8 and its muck, about a tenner now is the fiver of 5 or 6 years ago. On May she is as odious as Trump with out being as funny. On Brexit it is slowly dawning on the leavers that the EU holds all the cards. The North's corner will be better served by the Irish Government who understand the impact of brexit on the all island economy.

Take the time to shift through the Tesco wine online, amazing value with some 25% off on offers...

As for the South they will suffer with the no deals with Britain if it's a hard brexit

When it's sold at 25% off it's not the producers who are taking the hit.

I still don't see how that means wine producers in France and Italy aren't able to shift poor versions of their local product onto the UK market at prices the French and Italians would laugh at.

It's basic marketing sense that you save your best for the most discerning locals. Guinness is an Irish example. Pure muck outside Ireland even in places which keep it and serve it properly compared to even that served in dive bars here.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 03, 2017, 11:36:10 AM
On the wine, anything less than £8 and its muck, about a tenner now is the fiver of 5 or 6 years ago. On May she is as odious as Trump with out being as funny. On Brexit it is slowly dawning on the leavers that the EU holds all the cards. The North's corner will be better served by the Irish Government who understand the impact of brexit on the all island economy.

Take the time to shift through the Tesco wine online, amazing value with some 25% off on offers...

As for the South they will suffer with the no deals with Britain if it's a hard brexit

When it's sold at 25% off it's not the producers who are taking the hit.

I still don't see how that means wine producers in France and Italy aren't able to shift poor versions of their local product onto the UK market at prices the French and Italians would laugh at.

It's basic marketing sense that you save your best for the most discerning locals. Guinness is an Irish example. Pure muck outside Ireland even in places which keep it and serve it properly compared to even that served in dive bars here.
The top stuff is in a different price range . Vin de table is what most people in France drink most of the time and it is not expensive.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: armaghniac on June 04, 2017, 01:39:00 AM
Polls all over the place


Comres: 12% CON lead
ICM: 11% CON lead
Kantar: 10% CON lead (Weds)
ORB: 9% CON lead
Panelbase: 8% CON lead (Thurs)
Opinium: 6% CON lead
SurveyMonkey: 6% CON lead (Weds)
IPSOS MORI: 5% CON lead (Fri)
YouGov: 4% CON lead
Survation: 1% CON lead
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 04, 2017, 07:37:10 AM
The Telegraph is featuring news about a Labour "garden tax" that will cost people 4k.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/03/labours-garden-tax-hit-10million/

PauL Mason says it is fake news

https://mobile.twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/871104787374387201/photo/1
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 04, 2017, 08:33:02 AM
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/are-the-u-k-polls-skewed/

there are lots of hypotheses about why the polls have been off in particular elections. In the U.K. context, some common ones include:

“Shy” voters who don’t state their true voting intentions;
Overly lax turnout models;
Last-minute swings that come too late in the campaign to be captured by polls;
Nonrepresentative samples or improper demographic weighting;
Incorrect assumptions about undecided voters;
Tactical voting (voters abandoning their top choice — often a minor party — for a party they think can win), and
Pollster “herding” toward incorrect targets.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 04, 2017, 10:01:24 AM
https://www.swapmyvote.uk/

Interesting idea for NI
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Kilkevan on June 04, 2017, 10:08:41 AM
The top stuff is in a different price range . Vin de table is what most people in France drink most of the time and it is not expensive.

Not disputing that it is but try a bottle of vin du table in the UK, or Ireland, and tell me what you think of it...

I've more experience of Italy but a basic bottle of wine there is still far superior to what we have to pay over the odds for here. Italian friends who live in Dublin never stop complaining about it.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: manfromdelmonte on June 04, 2017, 10:21:40 AM
The top stuff is in a different price range . Vin de table is what most people in France drink most of the time and it is not expensive.

Not disputing that it is but try a bottle of vin du table in the UK, or Ireland, and tell me what you think of it...

I've more experience of Italy but a basic bottle of wine there is still far superior to what we have to pay over the odds for here. Italian friends who live in Dublin never stop complaining about it.
somebody somewhere is making a killing on the wine
along with the taxman
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: armaghniac on June 04, 2017, 10:25:38 AM
If you buy cheap bottle of wine then it is mostly tax, not payment for the wine.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 04, 2017, 10:49:45 AM
The top stuff is in a different price range . Vin de table is what most people in France drink most of the time and it is not expensive.

Not disputing that it is but try a bottle of vin du table in the UK, or Ireland, and tell me what you think of it...

I've more experience of Italy but a basic bottle of wine there is still far superior to what we have to pay over the odds for here. Italian friends who live in Dublin never stop complaining about it.
I think that competition from Oz , Chile and SA has improved standards at the bottom end of the market
French vin de table isn't much different imo. The most popular French wine is Baron de l'estac which is not that different to stuff from Oz in the same price range.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on June 04, 2017, 07:26:35 PM
The Telegraph is featuring news about a Labour "garden tax" that will cost people 4k.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/03/labours-garden-tax-hit-10million/

PauL Mason says it is fake news

https://mobile.twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/871104787374387201/photo/1

Paul Mason is certainly an expert in that area.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 04, 2017, 08:25:47 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2017/jun/03/london-bridge-closed-after-serious-police-incident-live

Corbyn criticised President Trump for his comments about the London Bridge attack. 
"At this time it is more important than ever that we stay united in our communities. It is the strength of our communities that gets us through these awful times as London mayor Sadiq Khan recognised but which the current occupant in the White House has neither the grace nor the sense to grasp.
Whether we are Muslim or Christian, black or white, male or female, gay or straight, we are united by our values, by our determination for a better world, and that we can build a better society.
Corbyn said that, if he wins the election, he will commission a report on Friday on the changing nature of the terrorist threat.
 
If Labour is elected I will commission a report from the security services on Friday on the changing nature of the terrorist threat.
He defended Labour’s plans to raise tax for the rich, saying tax “underpins our peaceful, tolerant and civilised society” by funding the police.
 
The choice you face on 8 June is a Conservative party which has made clear it will press on with another five years of austerity and cuts to essential public services to pay for even more tax handouts to the richest and the big corporations.
Or the Labour party, which is guaranteeing 95% of taxpayers will pay no extra tax but is asking the best off and the largest companies to pay a bit more to fund our hospitals, police, schools, decent pensions and childcare to invest in good jobs and a growing economy for the many not the few.
I don’t hesitate to make the case for more tax from those who can afford it.
It is taxation that underpins our peaceful, tolerant and civilised society the police, security services, fire and rescue service, our NHS they have all suffered cuts to pay for tax giveaways for the big corporations and the very richest.
He said if he won the election he would ensure those who acted bravely in the London Bridge attack are honoured.
 
If I am elected prime minister on 8 June I will be asking the commissioners of the Met police and the British Transport police for the names of those whose bravery should be commended, to acknowledge their heroism and of many others in our emergency services and among the public who intervened."
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 04, 2017, 09:14:54 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/04/northern-ireland-police-cuts-mean-unsolved-troubles-cases-might-be-dropped

Austerity cuts are going to lead to police officers being taken off cases relating to unsolved crimes from the Troubles, Northern Ireland’s Ch Con has warned.
George Hamilton, the head of the Police Service of Northern Ireland, has said that £20m cuts to his budget mean that he will have to transfer detectives away from historical cases stemming from the 1969–1997 conflict and on to current criminal inquiries. Nearly 4,000 people were killed during the conflict and tens of thousands were injured.
The move is likely to be controversial given that one of the key nationalist demands in the negotiations aimed at restoring power-sharing in the Stormont assembly is that special police structures are established to investigate thousands of killings in the Troubles, including those involving security forces.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 04, 2017, 09:26:58 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/04/northern-ireland-police-cuts-mean-unsolved-troubles-cases-might-be-dropped

Austerity cuts are going to lead to police officers being taken off cases relating to unsolved crimes from the Troubles, Northern Ireland’s Ch Con has warned.
George Hamilton, the head of the Police Service of Northern Ireland, has said that £20m cuts to his budget mean that he will have to transfer detectives away from historical cases stemming from the 1969–1997 conflict and on to current criminal inquiries. Nearly 4,000 people were killed during the conflict and tens of thousands were injured.
The move is likely to be controversial given that one of the key nationalist demands in the negotiations aimed at restoring power-sharing in the Stormont assembly is that special police structures are established to investigate thousands of killings in the Troubles, including those involving security forces.

All murders? will certainly mean a lot of republicans will be arrested
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on June 04, 2017, 10:47:53 PM
Looks like Corbyn has changed his mind on shoot to kill by security forces.  Up until Saturday night's attack on he was adamant in his opposition always saying the terrorist should be arrested. Already the Tories have attacked his hypocrisy with new video record from BBC.  BTW the use of this BBC video will send Corbynistas mad as it involved Laura Kuenssberg

https://www.facebook.com/fawkespage/videos/897088353762504/ (https://www.facebook.com/fawkespage/videos/897088353762504/)
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: sid waddell on June 04, 2017, 11:56:44 PM
Great speech by Corbyn earlier.

The Tories have cut over 20,000 police, decimating community policing which is the eyes and ears of the police on the ground.

They lie over the number of armed police.

They have cultivated and enabled Islamist fighters in Libya and Syria.

They continue to sell arms and give succour to Saudi Arabia.

They continue to legitimise Islamist terrorism by claiming their in a war against it.

There is no possible solution to the problem of Islamist terrorism without getting rid of the Tories and those like them.


Theresa May was the home secretary who decimated Britain's ability to defend against these attacks. She is part of the problem. And there's no fooking way she should be let away with it. In a functioning press, the Tories' failures and enabling of terror would be the story for the rest of the campaign.


The coverage of Corbyn's speech by the BBC has been a disgrace, following Tory attack lines. But that's what the BBC does these days - it's now the BBC the Tories want, not a proper public service broadcaster. That' what years of threatening to take away the licence fee does.

Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 05, 2017, 06:51:36 AM
Great speech by Corbyn earlier.

The Tories have cut over 20,000 police, decimating community policing which is the eyes and ears of the police on the ground.

They lie over the number of armed police.

They have cultivated and enabled Islamist fighters in Libya and Syria.

They continue to sell arms and give succour to Saudi Arabia.

They continue to legitimise Islamist terrorism by claiming their in a war against it.

There is no possible solution to the problem of Islamist terrorism without getting rid of the Tories and those like them.


Theresa May was the home secretary who decimated Britain's ability to defend against these attacks. She is part of the problem. And there's no fooking way she should be let away with it. In a functioning press, the Tories' failures and enabling of terror would be the story for the rest of the campaign.


The coverage of Corbyn's speech by the BBC has been a disgrace, following Tory attack lines. But that's what the BBC does these days - it's now the BBC the Tories want, not a proper public service broadcaster. That' what years of threatening to take away the licence fee does.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jun/05/theresa-may-urged-not-to-suppress-report-into-funding-of-jihadi-groups
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Avondhu star on June 05, 2017, 09:12:11 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/04/northern-ireland-police-cuts-mean-unsolved-troubles-cases-might-be-dropped

Austerity cuts are going to lead to police officers being taken off cases relating to unsolved crimes from the Troubles, Northern Ireland’s Ch Con has warned.
George Hamilton, the head of the Police Service of Northern Ireland, has said that £20m cuts to his budget mean that he will have to transfer detectives away from historical cases stemming from the 1969–1997 conflict and on to current criminal inquiries. Nearly 4,000 people were killed during the conflict and tens of thousands were injured.
The move is likely to be controversial given that one of the key nationalist demands in the negotiations aimed at restoring power-sharing in the Stormont assembly is that special police structures are established to investigate thousands of killings in the Troubles, including those involving security forces.

Northern Ireland is well down the list of priorities of any British government, Labour led or Conservative led. You can be getting used to that fact
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 05, 2017, 09:49:08 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/05/theresa-may-trusted-counter-terrorism-policy
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AQMP on June 05, 2017, 09:55:03 AM
There have been 3 attacks in England in the last three months, yet we're still safer with a Tory government???
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Minder on June 05, 2017, 10:05:46 AM
There have been 3 attacks in England in the last three months, yet we're still safer with a Tory government???

Do you think we would be any safer with a different government? Three fellas driving a van into people is hard to stop, as a few different countries have found out.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: manfromdelmonte on June 05, 2017, 10:30:43 AM
people's views are being suppressed and censored

and at a public meeting!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEcMW6RmC_w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEcMW6RmC_w)
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: sid waddell on June 05, 2017, 10:36:50 AM
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 05, 2017, 10:40:59 AM
There have been 3 attacks in England in the last three months, yet we're still safer with a Tory government???

Do you think we would be any safer with a different government? Three fellas driving a van into people is hard to stop, as a few different countries have found out.
They have to be honest about the support networks that nourish the jihadis. Where does the money come from? where are the preachers indoctrinated ? The police cuts need to be reversed.
No more arms sales to Saudi.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: sid waddell on June 05, 2017, 11:00:03 AM
There have been 3 attacks in England in the last three months, yet we're still safer with a Tory government???

Do you think we would be any safer with a different government? Three fellas driving a van into people is hard to stop, as a few different countries have found out.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/steve-hilton-david-camerons-former-strategy-chief-tells-theresa-may-to-quit-over-terrorism-failures-a3556811.html

David Cameron’s former strategy chief called for Theresa May to resign as he launched a scathing attack on the Prime Minister’s record on terrorism.

Steve Hilton, who worked under the former Prime Minister in 10 Downing Street, criticised Mrs May’s record on security after the third terror attack in Britain in 10 weeks.

Alluding to the PM’s time as Home Secretary between 2010 and 2016, Mr Hilton tweeted: “Theresa May responsible for security failures of London Bridge, Manchester, Westminster Bridge. Should be resigning not seeking re-election”.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AQMP on June 05, 2017, 11:09:09 AM
There have been 3 attacks in England in the last three months, yet we're still safer with a Tory government???

Do you think we would be any safer with a different government? Three fellas driving a van into people is hard to stop, as a few different countries have found out.

That's not the point I'm making.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: manfromdelmonte on June 05, 2017, 11:23:50 AM
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

thats quite shocking
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: LeoMc on June 05, 2017, 11:30:45 AM
There have been 3 attacks in England in the last three months, yet we're still safer with a Tory government???

Do you think we would be any safer with a different government? Three fellas driving a van into people is hard to stop, as a few different countries have found out.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/steve-hilton-david-camerons-former-strategy-chief-tells-theresa-may-to-quit-over-terrorism-failures-a3556811.html

David Cameron’s former strategy chief called for Theresa May to resign as he launched a scathing attack on the Prime Minister’s record on terrorism.

Steve Hilton, who worked under the former Prime Minister in 10 Downing Street, criticised Mrs May’s record on security after the third terror attack in Britain in 10 weeks.

Alluding to the PM’s time as Home Secretary between 2010 and 2016, Mr Hilton tweeted: “Theresa May responsible for security failures of London Bridge, Manchester, Westminster Bridge. Should be resigning not seeking re-election”.

A former Independent MP & Crime commissioner on this morning making a similar point. May cut 20,000 police, mainly PCSO's, the people on the ground who could be aiding in the intelligence gathering*, she also reduced the number of Armed response officers and now as PM she is continuing to deal with the Saudis who are funding the Wahabbi mosques where the easily influenced are being indoctrinated.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: armaghniac on June 05, 2017, 11:37:38 AM
It seems that one of these knifers lived in Ireland for a while, so not only the UK budget cuts might get at fault.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 05, 2017, 11:49:49 AM
There have been 3 attacks in England in the last three months, yet we're still safer with a Tory government???

Do you think we would be any safer with a different government? Three fellas driving a van into people is hard to stop, as a few different countries have found out.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/steve-hilton-david-camerons-former-strategy-chief-tells-theresa-may-to-quit-over-terrorism-failures-a3556811.html

David Cameron’s former strategy chief called for Theresa May to resign as he launched a scathing attack on the Prime Minister’s record on terrorism.

Steve Hilton, who worked under the former Prime Minister in 10 Downing Street, criticised Mrs May’s record on security after the third terror attack in Britain in 10 weeks.

Alluding to the PM’s time as Home Secretary between 2010 and 2016, Mr Hilton tweeted: “Theresa May responsible for security failures of London Bridge, Manchester, Westminster Bridge. Should be resigning not seeking re-election”.

Ozzy Osborne is editor of the Standard. May sacked him after the Brexit vote. No love lost
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Hardy on June 05, 2017, 11:52:57 AM
Lads, can we attribute quotes, cuttings, etc.?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: tiempo on June 05, 2017, 01:19:30 PM
Lads, can we attribute quotes, cuttings, etc.?

Fúck up lad its not Wikipedia.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Hardy on June 05, 2017, 01:32:38 PM
Exactly
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Avondhu star on June 05, 2017, 03:00:42 PM
Exactly

Its a forum. No point contributing if you expect accuracy
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 05, 2017, 03:03:47 PM
Exactly

Its a forum. No point contributing if you expect accuracy
But no fake news either.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: GJL on June 05, 2017, 03:42:57 PM
It seems that one of these knifers lived in Ireland for a while, so not only the UK budget cuts might get at fault.

That's convenient for a Hard Border argument. Or maybe even a case to argue for controls to be at Belfast ports instead of partition border. All this type of information is released for a reason.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on June 05, 2017, 03:50:07 PM
It seems that one of these knifers lived in Ireland for a while, so not only the UK budget cuts might get at fault.

That's convenient for a Hard Border argument. Or maybe even a case to argue for controls to be at Belfast ports instead of partition border. All this type of information is released for a reason.

Any word on his citizenship?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: yellowcard on June 05, 2017, 03:56:08 PM
When is May going to stand up for herself show some leadership and call out Trump for what he is instead of bending over for him. He's now had a pop at the mayor of London but May seems afraid to upset the big buffoon.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Avondhu star on June 05, 2017, 03:59:52 PM
It seems that one of these knifers lived in Ireland for a while, so not only the UK budget cuts might get at fault.

That's convenient for a Hard Border argument. Or maybe even a case to argue for controls to be at Belfast ports instead of partition border. All this type of information is released for a reason.

Airport and Seaport are the best points for security. Landborders can never be secured. Increased monitoring of passenger lists, soft intelligence targeting sympathisers and early round up of any names coming to the notice of the intelligence agencies. Needless to say we will have the usual shitehawks talking about civil liberties. There is a price to be paid for security
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Applesisapples on June 05, 2017, 04:36:34 PM
It seems that one of these knifers lived in Ireland for a while, so not only the UK budget cuts might get at fault.

That's convenient for a Hard Border argument. Or maybe even a case to argue for controls to be at Belfast ports instead of partition border. All this type of information is released for a reason.

Airport and Seaport are the best points for security. Landborders can never be secured. Increased monitoring of passenger lists, soft intelligence targeting sympathisers and early round up of any names coming to the notice of the intelligence agencies. Needless to say we will have the usual shitehawks talking about civil liberties. There is a price to be paid for security
The border in Ireland will be at the airports and ports north and south.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 05, 2017, 06:00:26 PM
When is May going to stand up for herself show some leadership and call out Trump for what he is instead of bending over for him. He's now had a pop at the mayor of London but May seems afraid to upset the big buffoon.
Fox hasn't signed any trade deals and May wants a hard Brexit.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: BennyCake on June 05, 2017, 07:15:23 PM
It seems that one of these knifers lived in Ireland for a while, so not only the UK budget cuts might get at fault.

That's convenient for a Hard Border argument. Or maybe even a case to argue for controls to be at Belfast ports instead of partition border. All this type of information is released for a reason.

+1
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Avondhu star on June 05, 2017, 07:22:44 PM
It seems that one of these knifers lived in Ireland for a while, so not only the UK budget cuts might get at fault.

That's convenient for a Hard Border argument. Or maybe even a case to argue for controls to be at Belfast ports instead of partition border. All this type of information is released for a reason.

+1



Next you will tell us it is a Zionists conspiracy or that the Manchester bombers uncle was Lee Harvey Oswald
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 05, 2017, 07:26:47 PM
Grassy knoll stuff
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: BennyCake on June 05, 2017, 08:41:25 PM
It seems that one of these knifers lived in Ireland for a while, so not only the UK budget cuts might get at fault.

That's convenient for a Hard Border argument. Or maybe even a case to argue for controls to be at Belfast ports instead of partition border. All this type of information is released for a reason.

+1



Next you will tell us it is a Zionists conspiracy or that the Manchester bombers uncle was Lee Harvey Oswald

You got all that from a "+1"?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on June 05, 2017, 09:41:19 PM
Evidence of Corbyn being told what to say by the puppet master, Seumas Milne.  The video below was recorded on a train as Corbyn and Milne discussed matters at too high a volume and provided to Mail on Sunday.

https://youtu.be/FZxNFI9D5wI (https://youtu.be/FZxNFI9D5wI)

In the video, Labour’s strategy chief, Milne, says:

“We need to find, I think overnight, without looking defensive of trying to seal down the Trident thing so it doesn’t keep intruding in the next few days… It might be worth thinking in the morning how when you do this thing in Lincoln… then maybe do a clip later where you will be asked about it.  We should maybe find a formula to close it down… We just, I think we just need a form of words.”

So when it came to responding to the London Bridge attack, Corbyn used “form of words”:

“I will take whatever action is necessary and effective to protect the security of our people and our country. That includes full authority for the police to use whatever force is necessary to protect and save life as they did last night, as they did in Westminster in March.”

So much for Corbyn being a man of principle, when the test came, he used Seumas Milne's “formula” to do whatever it takes to fool the voters.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on June 05, 2017, 09:54:18 PM
Financial Times poll of polls:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on June 05, 2017, 10:24:03 PM
The word was that Abbott was banned from media interviews but they let Murnaghan interview her........

http://news.sky.com/video/diane-abbott-tries-to-talk-about-counter-terror-review-10905600 (http://news.sky.com/video/diane-abbott-tries-to-talk-about-counter-terror-review-10905600)
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: bennydorano on June 05, 2017, 10:24:33 PM
Evidence of Corbyn being told what to say by the puppet master, Seumas Milne.  The video below was recorded on a train as Corbyn and Milne discussed matters at too high a volume and provided to Mail on Sunday.

https://youtu.be/FZxNFI9D5wI (https://youtu.be/FZxNFI9D5wI)

In the video, Labour’s strategy chief, Milne, says:

“We need to find, I think overnight, without looking defensive of trying to seal down the Trident thing so it doesn’t keep intruding in the next few days… It might be worth thinking in the morning how when you do this thing in Lincoln… then maybe do a clip later where you will be asked about it.  We should maybe find a formula to close it down… We just, I think we just need a form of words.”

So when it came to responding to the London Bridge attack, Corbyn used “form of words”:

“I will take whatever action is necessary and effective to protect the security of our people and our country. That includes full authority for the police to use whatever force is necessary to protect and save life as they did last night, as they did in Westminster in March.”

So much for Corbyn being a man of principle, when the test came, he used Seumas Milne's “formula” to do whatever it takes to fool the voters.
Wow, politicians being unscrupulous.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 05, 2017, 10:31:38 PM
Evidence of Corbyn being told what to say by the puppet master, Seumas Milne.  The video below was recorded on a train as Corbyn and Milne discussed matters at too high a volume and provided to Mail on Sunday.

https://youtu.be/FZxNFI9D5wI (https://youtu.be/FZxNFI9D5wI)

In the video, Labour’s strategy chief, Milne, says:

“We need to find, I think overnight, without looking defensive of trying to seal down the Trident thing so it doesn’t keep intruding in the next few days… It might be worth thinking in the morning how when you do this thing in Lincoln… then maybe do a clip later where you will be asked about it.  We should maybe find a formula to close it down… We just, I think we just need a form of words.”

So when it came to responding to the London Bridge attack, Corbyn used “form of words”:

“I will take whatever action is necessary and effective to protect the security of our people and our country. That includes full authority for the police to use whatever force is necessary to protect and save life as they did last night, as they did in Westminster in March.”

So much for Corbyn being a man of principle, when the test came, he used Seumas Milne's “formula” to do whatever it takes to fool the voters.
One of May''s weak points. So they went for it.
The whole jihad thing is very bad for her.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on June 05, 2017, 10:32:24 PM
Evidence of Corbyn being told what to say by the puppet master, Seumas Milne.  The video below was recorded on a train as Corbyn and Milne discussed matters at too high a volume and provided to Mail on Sunday.

https://youtu.be/FZxNFI9D5wI (https://youtu.be/FZxNFI9D5wI)

In the video, Labour’s strategy chief, Milne, says:

“We need to find, I think overnight, without looking defensive of trying to seal down the Trident thing so it doesn’t keep intruding in the next few days… It might be worth thinking in the morning how when you do this thing in Lincoln… then maybe do a clip later where you will be asked about it.  We should maybe find a formula to close it down… We just, I think we just need a form of words.”

So when it came to responding to the London Bridge attack, Corbyn used “form of words”:

“I will take whatever action is necessary and effective to protect the security of our people and our country. That includes full authority for the police to use whatever force is necessary to protect and save life as they did last night, as they did in Westminster in March.”

So much for Corbyn being a man of principle, when the test came, he used Seumas Milne's “formula” to do whatever it takes to fool the voters.
Wow, politicians being unscrupulous.

No surprise to most of us except for those who think Corbyn is above all this carry on.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: sid waddell on June 05, 2017, 10:53:04 PM
Evidence of Corbyn being told what to say by the puppet master, Seumas Milne.  The video below was recorded on a train as Corbyn and Milne discussed matters at too high a volume and provided to Mail on Sunday.

https://youtu.be/FZxNFI9D5wI (https://youtu.be/FZxNFI9D5wI)

In the video, Labour’s strategy chief, Milne, says:

“We need to find, I think overnight, without looking defensive of trying to seal down the Trident thing so it doesn’t keep intruding in the next few days… It might be worth thinking in the morning how when you do this thing in Lincoln… then maybe do a clip later where you will be asked about it.  We should maybe find a formula to close it down… We just, I think we just need a form of words.”

So when it came to responding to the London Bridge attack, Corbyn used “form of words”:

“I will take whatever action is necessary and effective to protect the security of our people and our country. That includes full authority for the police to use whatever force is necessary to protect and save life as they did last night, as they did in Westminster in March.”

So much for Corbyn being a man of principle, when the test came, he used Seumas Milne's “formula” to do whatever it takes to fool the voters.

Is this supposed to be "damning", or something?

Because it's really terribly boring.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: yellowcard on June 05, 2017, 11:09:08 PM
Evidence of Corbyn being told what to say by the puppet master, Seumas Milne.  The video below was recorded on a train as Corbyn and Milne discussed matters at too high a volume and provided to Mail on Sunday.

https://youtu.be/FZxNFI9D5wI (https://youtu.be/FZxNFI9D5wI)

In the video, Labour’s strategy chief, Milne, says:

“We need to find, I think overnight, without looking defensive of trying to seal down the Trident thing so it doesn’t keep intruding in the next few days… It might be worth thinking in the morning how when you do this thing in Lincoln… then maybe do a clip later where you will be asked about it.  We should maybe find a formula to close it down… We just, I think we just need a form of words.”

So when it came to responding to the London Bridge attack, Corbyn used “form of words”:

“I will take whatever action is necessary and effective to protect the security of our people and our country. That includes full authority for the police to use whatever force is necessary to protect and save life as they did last night, as they did in Westminster in March.”

So much for Corbyn being a man of principle, when the test came, he used Seumas Milne's “formula” to do whatever it takes to fool the voters.

It's scraping the barrel to attack the man on this.

Leaving aside policies, Corbyn  has come across as someone who is quite easy to engage with on a human level and is much more likeable than Theresa May. May has had a very poor campaign and comes across as aloof, wishy washy and lacks any real leadership. That despite receiving the backing and assistance of several media outlets acting purely in self interest.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Minder on June 05, 2017, 11:40:30 PM
Think Labour should have kept Diane Abbott in hiding, state of her

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/06/watch-diane-abbotts-disastrous-turn-sky-news/
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: sid waddell on June 06, 2017, 12:01:12 AM
Think Labour should have kept Diane Abbott in hiding, state of her

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/06/watch-diane-abbotts-disastrous-turn-sky-news/
Abbott is certainly no worse in media appearances than May. She at least tries to answer questions, which is a damn sight more than May does.

May is only the Prime Minister, remember.

One could only imagine the reaction had Abbott told police they were "scaremongering" and "crying wolf" when they warned of the consequences of cuts, like May did.

And let's not forget, there will likely be more cuts to policing under the Tories - £700 million for London alone.

When you consider how Francois Hollande's approval rating went down to 4% after the terrorist attacks in Paris and Nice, it shows the power of propaganda in the British press that May, who has far more questions to answer over the attacks in Britain did than Hollande did over the French attacks, is still considered by a majority to be stronger national security than Corbyn, when my cat could see the opposite is the reality.

She's utterly hapless - a talking parrot.



Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on June 06, 2017, 08:16:50 AM
Evidence of Corbyn being told what to say by the puppet master, Seumas Milne.  The video below was recorded on a train as Corbyn and Milne discussed matters at too high a volume and provided to Mail on Sunday.

https://youtu.be/FZxNFI9D5wI (https://youtu.be/FZxNFI9D5wI)

In the video, Labour’s strategy chief, Milne, says:

“We need to find, I think overnight, without looking defensive of trying to seal down the Trident thing so it doesn’t keep intruding in the next few days… It might be worth thinking in the morning how when you do this thing in Lincoln… then maybe do a clip later where you will be asked about it.  We should maybe find a formula to close it down… We just, I think we just need a form of words.”

So when it came to responding to the London Bridge attack, Corbyn used “form of words”:

“I will take whatever action is necessary and effective to protect the security of our people and our country. That includes full authority for the police to use whatever force is necessary to protect and save life as they did last night, as they did in Westminster in March.”

So much for Corbyn being a man of principle, when the test came, he used Seumas Milne's “formula” to do whatever it takes to fool the voters.

It's scraping the barrel to attack the man on this.

Leaving aside policies, Corbyn  has come across as someone who is quite easy to engage with on a human level and is much more likeable than Theresa May. May has had a very poor campaign and comes across as aloof, wishy washy and lacks any real leadership. That despite receiving the backing and assistance of several media outlets acting purely in self interest.

If you market yourself as highly principled, refusing to conform to the establishment and offering a new and honest politics then being caught out being told how to hid your true principles from the public and doing a 360 on your principles just to win the election is hypocrisy. 

The Tories will continue to u turn and do whatever it takes to win but they don't pretend to be anything else. 

It seems trains aren't the best place for Corbyn given his previous lying on the floor stunt when he had a seat.  Being likeable isn't a determinant of being a good PM for the UK and probably any other country.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on June 06, 2017, 08:58:09 AM
On local note, the battle of misinformation via leaflets and trying to confuse the voter by using percentages and numbers of votes.

First SF put out a leaflet with key information missing to create some fake news:
BTW SDLP were on 19.4% in the same election being quotes by SF.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Then SDLP hit back with their own version of a reality check using a different election result.  Neatly using Chris Donnelly, 'commentator', (how do you get a job like that?) as a source to attack SF:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: johnneycool on June 06, 2017, 09:10:34 AM
Evidence of Corbyn being told what to say by the puppet master, Seumas Milne.  The video below was recorded on a train as Corbyn and Milne discussed matters at too high a volume and provided to Mail on Sunday.



In the video, Labour’s strategy chief, Milne, says:

“We need to find, I think overnight, without looking defensive of trying to seal down the Trident thing so it doesn’t keep intruding in the next few days… It might be worth thinking in the morning how when you do this thing in Lincoln… then maybe do a clip later where you will be asked about it.  We should maybe find a formula to close it down… We just, I think we just need a form of words.”

So when it came to responding to the London Bridge attack, Corbyn used “form of words”:

“I will take whatever action is necessary and effective to protect the security of our people and our country. That includes full authority for the police to use whatever force is necessary to protect and save life as they did last night, as they did in Westminster in March.”

So much for Corbyn being a man of principle, when the test came, he used Seumas Milne's “formula” to do whatever it takes to fool the voters.

It's scraping the barrel to attack the man on this.

Leaving aside policies, Corbyn  has come across as someone who is quite easy to engage with on a human level and is much more likeable than Theresa May. May has had a very poor campaign and comes across as aloof, wishy washy and lacks any real leadership. That despite receiving the backing and assistance of several media outlets acting purely in self interest.

If you market yourself as highly principled, refusing to conform to the establishment and offering a new and honest politics then being caught out being told how to hid your true principles from the public and doing a 360 on your principles just to win the election is hypocrisy. 

The Tories will continue to u turn and do whatever it takes to win but they don't pretend to be anything else. 

It seems trains aren't the best place for Corbyn given his previous lying on the floor stunt when he had a seat.  Being likeable isn't a determinant of being a good PM for the UK and probably any other country.

True,
    competence is probably far more important, but the popular vote doesn't necessarily follow that train of thought as per brexit and Trump..

Theresa getting caught out again with her meeting and hearing what people have to say when it seems these walk abouts are in industrial estates somewhere or other with a rent a mob;

visitors can't see pics , please register or login




Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: johnneycool on June 06, 2017, 09:13:45 AM
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AQMP on June 06, 2017, 09:29:59 AM
On local note, the battle of misinformation via leaflets and trying to confuse the voter by using percentages and numbers of votes.

First SF put out a leaflet with key information missing to create some fake news:
BTW SDLP were on 19.4% in the same election being quotes by SF.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Then SDLP hit back with their own version of a reality check using a different election result.  Neatly using Chris Donnelly, 'commentator', (how do you get a job like that?) as a source to attack SF:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Christ Owen, that barrel has been well and truly scraped over the last 24 hrs.  Ye must have a hole worn in it by now.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: yellowcard on June 06, 2017, 09:36:49 AM
Evidence of Corbyn being told what to say by the puppet master, Seumas Milne.  The video below was recorded on a train as Corbyn and Milne discussed matters at too high a volume and provided to Mail on Sunday.

https://youtu.be/FZxNFI9D5wI (https://youtu.be/FZxNFI9D5wI)

In the video, Labour’s strategy chief, Milne, says:

“We need to find, I think overnight, without looking defensive of trying to seal down the Trident thing so it doesn’t keep intruding in the next few days… It might be worth thinking in the morning how when you do this thing in Lincoln… then maybe do a clip later where you will be asked about it.  We should maybe find a formula to close it down… We just, I think we just need a form of words.”

So when it came to responding to the London Bridge attack, Corbyn used “form of words”:

“I will take whatever action is necessary and effective to protect the security of our people and our country. That includes full authority for the police to use whatever force is necessary to protect and save life as they did last night, as they did in Westminster in March.”

So much for Corbyn being a man of principle, when the test came, he used Seumas Milne's “formula” to do whatever it takes to fool the voters.

It's scraping the barrel to attack the man on this.

Leaving aside policies, Corbyn  has come across as someone who is quite easy to engage with on a human level and is much more likeable than Theresa May. May has had a very poor campaign and comes across as aloof, wishy washy and lacks any real leadership. That despite receiving the backing and assistance of several media outlets acting purely in self interest.

If you market yourself as highly principled, refusing to conform to the establishment and offering a new and honest politics then being caught out being told how to hid your true principles from the public and doing a 360 on your principles just to win the election is hypocrisy. 

The Tories will continue to u turn and do whatever it takes to win but they don't pretend to be anything else. 

It seems trains aren't the best place for Corbyn given his previous lying on the floor stunt when he had a seat.  Being likeable isn't a determinant of being a good PM for the UK and probably any other country.

You really don't like Corbyn do you.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 06, 2017, 09:58:56 AM
Survation poll has tories on 41%, Labour on 40%

mhttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/06/general-election-2017-conservative-poll-lead-labour-narrows2/
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on June 06, 2017, 10:05:12 AM
On local note, the battle of misinformation via leaflets and trying to confuse the voter by using percentages and numbers of votes.

First SF put out a leaflet with key information missing to create some fake news:
BTW SDLP were on 19.4% in the same election being quotes by SF.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Then SDLP hit back with their own version of a reality check using a different election result.  Neatly using Chris Donnelly, 'commentator', (how do you get a job like that?) as a source to attack SF:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Christ Owen, that barrel has been well and truly scraped over the last 24 hrs.  Ye must have a hole worn in it by now.

As much as I like Mom and cant stand McDonnell the truth is nationalists need to vote SDLP in SB to keep that $#@% (insert preference) Pengelly out. Next time it will all be academic as new boundaries mean South West Belfast will be safe SF. Sf just have to decide if Maskey or Mom will run (easy choice). For such a successfull business man he has form for talking shite over numbers. At the last council elections he was blowing about topping the poll forgetting to mention that both the SDLP and DUP had 2 candidates and were balancing votes as oppossed to just himself for SF.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 06, 2017, 12:54:54 PM
Tories are 2/9 with Paddy Power but they only have to lose 8 seats. May is a liability
And Labour are doing very well in the last week . You never know.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6hH4i_ezRg
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Tony Baloney on June 06, 2017, 01:23:50 PM
Tories are 2/9 with Paddy Power but they only have to lose 8 seats. May is a liability
And Labour are doing very well in the last week . You never know.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6hH4i_ezRg
You'd wonder about their decision making though if they are to continue to send Diane Abbott onto TV to discuss matters of policy. She hasn't a clue and is a potential vote-killer for swing voters as the question the Tory's are asking is "are you prepared to let this woman be your Home Secretary this Friday"?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 06, 2017, 01:24:52 PM
Tories are 2/9 with Paddy Power but they only have to lose 8 seats. May is a liability
And Labour are doing very well in the last week . You never know.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6hH4i_ezRg

1/12 with bet365.    That's the best polls indicator (generally)
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: yellowcard on June 06, 2017, 01:38:28 PM
I don't think there is any doubt that the Tories will win this election, however it cannot be seen as a success for them unless the polls are incorrect. Traditionally, some people who would vote Tories would be a bit embarrassed to admit as much so its not impossible that this may be the case.

May has been exposed for the weak leader that she is and they will probably fail to get the landslide 100+ victory that they originally thought was a certainty. May to date has had the unconditional backing of a media who are fearful of a Corbyn led government, but this support might waver slightly once the election is over and her performance is examined in detail. The thought of her leading Britain into Brexit negotiations isn't exactly reassuring to people.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Hardy on June 06, 2017, 02:17:07 PM
Tories are 2/9 with Paddy Power but they only have to lose 8 seats. May is a liability
And Labour are doing very well in the last week . You never know.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6hH4i_ezRg

1/12 with bet365.    That's the best polls indicator (generally)

These odds are probably in two different markets.

On Betfair:
Tory majority - 1/4
Tories to win more seats than any other party - 1/10
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: screenexile on June 06, 2017, 02:29:22 PM
Tories are 2/9 with Paddy Power but they only have to lose 8 seats. May is a liability
And Labour are doing very well in the last week . You never know.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6hH4i_ezRg

1/12 with bet365.    That's the best polls indicator (generally)

Betfair were 1/9 Remain

Paddypower paid out on Clinton a month before the election!
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: bennydorano on June 06, 2017, 03:24:36 PM
Polling as an industry has been largely discredited the past few years, they're feeding the bookies odds as well. Anything could happen Thursday.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: mrdeeds on June 06, 2017, 03:36:01 PM
Polling as an industry has been largely discredited the past few years, they're feeding the bookies odds as well. Anything could happen Thursday.

Polling did have Brexit as very close and called Clinton based on popular vote so in that regard was correct. Gambling websites I have a big problem with, especially ones that start a rumour or story and then take money based on it.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AQMP on June 06, 2017, 03:50:01 PM
Nigel Dodds cannot make tonight's BBC debate as his mother is unwell.  Jeffrey Donaldson will take his place as Arlene is in Belgium at the Messines commemoration, emmmm the party leader out of the country in the week of an election??.  I think the DUP will get rid of her before Xmas if she's third choice to face the voters.

Source: Tweets from Sam McBride

Edit:  Michelle O'Neill has pulled out too, it's expected John O'Dowd will stand in ???
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: stew on June 06, 2017, 05:52:03 PM
I dont give a toss about any party in the north, I would love to see Labour and Corbyn beat those fox hunting heartless c***ts Tories but they probably wont.

The politicans in the north are bitter to a very large degree, none are worth voting for, I do know one Alliance party member running in Armagh, she is a great woman and I will probably vote for her but struggle because the Alliance Party seems to have a pro british bent to it, I am still undecided.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 06, 2017, 08:29:38 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/francesca-martinez/how-to-vote-general-election_b_16960884.html
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 06, 2017, 08:30:43 PM
Tories are 2/9 with Paddy Power but they only have to lose 8 seats. May is a liability
And Labour are doing very well in the last week . You never know.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6hH4i_ezRg

1/12 with bet365.    That's the best polls indicator (generally)

These odds are probably in two different markets.

On Betfair:
Tory majority - 1/4
Tories to win more seats than any other party - 1/10

You never mentioned majority

The night before the remain results I backed it at 2/1 to leave, think it was 1/3 remain at the time
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Tubberman on June 06, 2017, 10:01:58 PM
Jesus Christ, I happened to see the last 10 mins of the NI Leader's Debate on BBC.
The last argument was SDLP asking DUP why they were afraid of marriage equality or a Languages Act, which prompted Jeffrey Donaldson to response with "why won't you let us fly our flag", "why are you diminishing our British identity". FFS, do things ever move on...
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on June 06, 2017, 10:08:06 PM
https://youtu.be/Vov7WdPTRAY

One for Sir Jeffrey
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Avondhu star on June 06, 2017, 10:56:05 PM
Jesus Christ, I happened to see the last 10 mins of the NI Leader's Debate on BBC.
The last argument was SDLP asking DUP why they were afraid of marriage equality or a Languages Act, which prompted Jeffrey Donaldson to response with "why won't you let us fly our flag", "why are you diminishing our British identity". FFS, do things ever move on...
Of course they have moved on. The both sides are steadily approaching the 19th century now
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: podge on June 06, 2017, 11:00:31 PM
Jesus Christ, I happened to see the last 10 mins of the NI Leader's Debate on BBC.
The last argument was SDLP asking DUP why they were afraid of marriage equality or a Languages Act, which prompted Jeffrey Donaldson to response with "why won't you let us fly our flag", "why are you diminishing our British identity". FFS, do things ever move on...

It really was laughable. You stole my sweets type argument from Jeff. Right up there with the statement today from that loyalist outfit..

thought Eastwood did very well overall - not that it will matter a jot when it comes to the outcome
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: The Subbie on June 06, 2017, 11:03:34 PM
Jesus Christ, I happened to see the last 10 mins of the NI Leader's Debate on BBC.
The last argument was SDLP asking DUP why they were afraid of marriage equality or a Languages Act, which prompted Jeffrey Donaldson to response with "why won't you let us fly our flag", "why are you diminishing our British identity". FFS, do things ever move on...
Of course they have moved on. The both sides are steadily approaching the 19th century now

You shouldn't be so hard on the stoops.
If you had to pick between them & the DUP there wouldn't be much in it but at the same time the stoops are 20th century at the least whilst the DUP are still mid 17th century.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 07, 2017, 04:31:26 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/06/nicola-sturgeon-says-difficult-theresa-may-will-struggle-with-brexit-talks

Nicola Sturgeon has said that Theresa May is a “very difficult person to establish rapport with” and someone whose character is such that will she will struggle in Brexit negotiations.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 07, 2017, 08:52:35 AM
Corbyn on the police

https://twitter.com/EL4JC/status/872353375895080960
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AQMP on June 07, 2017, 09:06:23 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/06/nicola-sturgeon-says-difficult-theresa-may-will-struggle-with-brexit-talks

Nicola Sturgeon has said that Theresa May is a “very difficult person to establish rapport with” and someone whose character is such that will she will struggle in Brexit negotiations.

"No deal is better than a bad deal"...that was pretty much the DUP's view of the GFA.  I think May knows a hard Brexit will be a disaster and she originally called the election, hoping for a landslide, to use it as a mandate for a soft Brexit.

Judging by the front pages of the Daily Heil and the Sun today, the right wing nut jobs are shitting themselves that the election will be close.

My gut says a Tory majority of 50 - 75 though in April they were looking at a majority of well in excess of 100.  There are a lot of shy Tories in Britain.  Anything less than a 50 majority and I think May will be under pressure.  Corbyn has had a good campaign and apart from that idiot Diane Abbott Labour have done well in media performances.  With Brexit negotiations starting in a few weeks this might be a good election to lose!

Here in the black North, I expect a bit of a Unionist revival after the close call in March.  I think Pengelly will oust Big Al in S Belfast and the DUP might take S Antrim off the UUP.  I still think Robinson and Elliott will hold on in E Belfast and FST.  The interesting one will be S Down, can SF sneak past Ritchie?  There's a dilemma for tactical Unionist voters.  Do they follow orders and maximise the Unionist vote to show the croppies they're still boss or do they continue to vote for Durkan and Ritchie to keep SF out?  There is generally less interest in Westminster elections among Nationalists these days, can SF and SDLP get the vote out again??
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AQMP on June 07, 2017, 09:16:41 AM
Interesting move...Diane Abbott replaced as Shadow Home Secretary - the day before an election!  Corbyn cites ill health.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: johnneycool on June 07, 2017, 09:28:46 AM
Interesting move...Diane Abbott replaced as Shadow Home Secretary - the day before an election!  Corbyn cites ill health.

She was a liability and only has herself to blame with not doing the groundwork before spoofing in interviews.

It's hard to see how the UK general election will go, the mainstream media are very pro Tory, May got a fairly easy ride from Etchingham last night on ITV compared to Sturgeon the night before, a load of fluffy nonsense to start off with and if you delve into social media with all the various echo chambers its easy to see how Corbyn has a connect with the common man with big rallies in the north of England, but if he was getting the same in the South East then you'd say he's a good chance of at least getting a hung parliament which then brings the DUP into play and that's not good for here..

Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: mrdeeds on June 07, 2017, 09:48:52 AM
Teresa May ran through a field of wheat. Holy fook Thug Life. I absolutely hate her fish face everytime she gets a question she can't answer. Which is often and then changes subject completely. The Right Wing press are saying Corbyn couldn't be trusted to keep Britain safe while May was Home Secretary and Prime Minister during the most recent attacks. Also she needs to negotiate Brexit even though she's against it. How did Britain and the US end up with such crap leadership.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 07, 2017, 10:09:00 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/06/nicola-sturgeon-says-difficult-theresa-may-will-struggle-with-brexit-talks

Nicola Sturgeon has said that Theresa May is a “very difficult person to establish rapport with” and someone whose character is such that will she will struggle in Brexit negotiations.

"No deal is better than a bad deal"...that was pretty much the DUP's view of the GFA.  I think May knows a hard Brexit will be a disaster and she originally called the election, hoping for a landslide, to use it as a mandate for a soft Brexit.

Judging by the front pages of the Daily Heil and the Sun today, the right wing nut jobs are shitting themselves that the election will be close.

My gut says a Tory majority of 50 - 75 though in April they were looking at a majority of well in excess of 100.  There are a lot of shy Tories in Britain.  Anything less than a 50 majority and I think May will be under pressure.  Corbyn has had a good campaign and apart from that idiot Diane Abbott Labour have done well in media performances.  With Brexit negotiations starting in a few weeks this might be a good election to lose!

Here in the black North, I expect a bit of a Unionist revival after the close call in March.  I think Pengelly will oust Big Al in S Belfast and the DUP might take S Antrim off the UUP.  I still think Robinson and Elliott will hold on in E Belfast and FST.  The interesting one will be S Down, can SF sneak past Ritchie?  There's a dilemma for tactical Unionist voters.  Do they follow orders and maximise the Unionist vote to show the croppies they're still boss or do they continue to vote for Durkan and Ritchie to keep SF out?  There is generally less interest in Westminster elections among Nationalists these days, can SF and SDLP get the vote out again??

There should be a shy tory element. There usually is. But we are in very unusual times.

Government parties have been hammered in Spain, France, the US, Venezuela, Brazil, South Korea, Greece, Italy, Belgium, the Netherlands, Ireland  and other places in the last 5 years.

Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 07, 2017, 10:11:54 AM
Teresa May ran through a field of wheat. Holy fook Thug Life. I absolutely hate her fish face everytime she gets a question she can't answer. Which is often and then changes subject completely. The Right Wing press are saying Corbyn couldn't be trusted to keep Britain safe while May was Home Secretary and Prime Minister during the most recent attacks. Also she needs to negotiate Brexit even though she's against it. How did Britain and the US end up with such crap leadership.
Because in the UK and the US the 1% run the show. And the economy isn't working. So the leadership has to defend something that is banjaxed. Cuts are actualy bad for the economy but they are good for the bonds owned by the 1%
. In the US the 1% want to slash health spending. Voters will die in large numbers. there is no idea that the people and the Government can agree on. The Tories are in serious trouble even if they win tomorrow. The GOP is fucked.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 07, 2017, 10:21:21 AM
Teresa May ran through a field of wheat. Holy fook Thug Life. I absolutely hate her fish face everytime she gets a question she can't answer. Which is often and then changes subject completely. The Right Wing press are saying Corbyn couldn't be trusted to keep Britain safe while May was Home Secretary and Prime Minister during the most recent attacks. Also she needs to negotiate Brexit even though she's against it. How did Britain and the US end up with such crap leadership.
Law and order is a Tory issue. May was Home Sec for 5 years

The plice ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al2F1bkXAK0
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: yellowcard on June 07, 2017, 10:29:24 AM
UK tabloids unashamedly ramping up the Corbyn/Labour hatred this morning, last ditch attempt to sway undecided voters.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Minder on June 07, 2017, 10:34:05 AM
UK tabloids unashamedly ramping up the Corbyn/Labour hatred this morning, last ditch attempt to sway undecided voters.

What undecided voters would be Sun/Mail/Express readers ?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: yellowcard on June 07, 2017, 10:43:03 AM
UK tabloids unashamedly ramping up the Corbyn/Labour hatred this morning, last ditch attempt to sway undecided voters.

What undecided voters would be Sun/Mail/Express readers ?

Of course they generally push a UKIP/Tory agenda but you can't tell me that 100% of their readers are Tories. Plenty of people care very little for what is going on politically and would barely glance at the news pages of a tabloid newspaper. 
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 07, 2017, 10:58:07 AM
UK tabloids unashamedly ramping up the Corbyn/Labour hatred this morning, last ditch attempt to sway undecided voters.

What undecided voters would be Sun/Mail/Express readers ?
Sun readers swing both ways. Get your tits out for the vote
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: johnneycool on June 07, 2017, 10:58:56 AM
Laura doing what Laura does best;

Very little mention of May's poor performance and non shows but plenty of undermining of Corbyn;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40184817 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40184817)
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Maroon Manc on June 07, 2017, 11:12:24 AM
Plenty of shy tories around especially in comparison to how vocal Labour are, my facebook is full of political experts the last few weeks although all of them have conveniently ignored the corporation tax issue.

The last statistic I saw was there was 4.6 million self employed in the UK, haven't a clue how many of them would have their business in a LTD company but for those who are they would eventually see a 36% increase in their tax bill. There's no tax rise unless you're rich apparently according to the masses on social media, that narrative certainly isn't true.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: johnneycool on June 07, 2017, 11:25:27 AM
Plenty of shy tories around especially in comparison to how vocal Labour are, my facebook is full of political experts the last few weeks although all of them have conveniently ignored the corporation tax issue.

The last statistic I saw was there was 4.6 million self employed in the UK, haven't a clue how many of them would have their business in a LTD company but for those who are they would eventually see a 36% increase in their tax bill. There's no tax rise unless you're rich apparently according to the masses on social media, that narrative certainly isn't true.

What's the threshold for being rich these days?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Maroon Manc on June 07, 2017, 11:29:19 AM
Plenty of shy tories around especially in comparison to how vocal Labour are, my facebook is full of political experts the last few weeks although all of them have conveniently ignored the corporation tax issue.

The last statistic I saw was there was 4.6 million self employed in the UK, haven't a clue how many of them would have their business in a LTD company but for those who are they would eventually see a 36% increase in their tax bill. There's no tax rise unless you're rich apparently according to the masses on social media, that narrative certainly isn't true.

What's the threshold for being rich these days?

Good question, would like to find out one day.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AQMP on June 07, 2017, 11:36:51 AM
Plenty of shy tories around especially in comparison to how vocal Labour are, my facebook is full of political experts the last few weeks although all of them have conveniently ignored the corporation tax issue.

The last statistic I saw was there was 4.6 million self employed in the UK, haven't a clue how many of them would have their business in a LTD company but for those who are they would eventually see a 36% increase in their tax bill. There's no tax rise unless you're rich apparently according to the masses on social media, that narrative certainly isn't true.

If you have a Ltd Co, surely you are not self employed??  You are employed by the company.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AQMP on June 07, 2017, 11:57:27 AM
Plenty of shy tories around especially in comparison to how vocal Labour are, my facebook is full of political experts the last few weeks although all of them have conveniently ignored the corporation tax issue.

The last statistic I saw was there was 4.6 million self employed in the UK, haven't a clue how many of them would have their business in a LTD company but for those who are they would eventually see a 36% increase in their tax bill. There's no tax rise unless you're rich apparently according to the masses on social media, that narrative certainly isn't true.

Are the Labour plans not to re-introduce the small profits rate (which covered profits up to £300k) at 21% (currently 19%) and to increase the rate for bigger companies to 26% which is what it was up until 2012 and is lower than under the last Labour government??  Can you explain how a small ltd company's tax bill would rise by 36%??  Yes, if your company has pre-tax profits of say £500,000 your tax liability would rise from £95,000 to £130,000 (36.8% rise) but if your company has pre-tax profit of £50,000 your tax liability would go up from £9,500 to £10,500 (a rise of 10.5%)

I don't know what is rich but if you're making net profit in excess of £300,000 you're probably doing OK
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: yellowcard on June 07, 2017, 01:06:44 PM
Plenty of shy tories around especially in comparison to how vocal Labour are, my facebook is full of political experts the last few weeks although all of them have conveniently ignored the corporation tax issue.

The last statistic I saw was there was 4.6 million self employed in the UK, haven't a clue how many of them would have their business in a LTD company but for those who are they would eventually see a 36% increase in their tax bill. There's no tax rise unless you're rich apparently according to the masses on social media, that narrative certainly isn't true.

If 4.6 million people are self employed that does not mean they are paying corporation tax. The vast majority I would imagine are paying income tax as self employed people.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Maroon Manc on June 07, 2017, 01:15:12 PM
Plenty of shy tories around especially in comparison to how vocal Labour are, my facebook is full of political experts the last few weeks although all of them have conveniently ignored the corporation tax issue.

The last statistic I saw was there was 4.6 million self employed in the UK, haven't a clue how many of them would have their business in a LTD company but for those who are they would eventually see a 36% increase in their tax bill. There's no tax rise unless you're rich apparently according to the masses on social media, that narrative certainly isn't true.

Are the Labour plans not to re-introduce the small profits rate (which covered profits up to £300k) at 21% (currently 19%) and to increase the rate for bigger companies to 26% which is what it was up until 2012 and is lower than under the last Labour government??  Can you explain how a small ltd company's tax bill would rise by 36%??  Yes, if your company has pre-tax profits of say £500,000 your tax liability would rise from £95,000 to £130,000 (36.8% rise) but if your company has pre-tax profit of £50,000 your tax liability would go up from £9,500 to £10,500 (a rise of 10.5%)

I don't know what is rich but if you're making net profit in excess of £300,000 you're probably doing OK

I wasn't aware but if that is the case it makes my point completely irrelevant.

Just checked and you are right, genuinely wasn't aware.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Maroon Manc on June 07, 2017, 01:23:20 PM
Plenty of shy tories around especially in comparison to how vocal Labour are, my facebook is full of political experts the last few weeks although all of them have conveniently ignored the corporation tax issue.

The last statistic I saw was there was 4.6 million self employed in the UK, haven't a clue how many of them would have their business in a LTD company but for those who are they would eventually see a 36% increase in their tax bill. There's no tax rise unless you're rich apparently according to the masses on social media, that narrative certainly isn't true.

If 4.6 million people are self employed that does not mean they are paying corporation tax. The vast majority I would imagine are paying income tax as self employed people.

I did state I didn't have a clue on how of them would have business in a LTD company.

I can think of about 30 people I know who would consider themselves as self employed/work for themselves but would be registered as LTD company, I don't anyone who works for themselves who isn't.

Anyhow my point appears to be invalid given the AQMP's reply.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AQMP on June 07, 2017, 03:21:17 PM
Plenty of shy tories around especially in comparison to how vocal Labour are, my facebook is full of political experts the last few weeks although all of them have conveniently ignored the corporation tax issue.

The last statistic I saw was there was 4.6 million self employed in the UK, haven't a clue how many of them would have their business in a LTD company but for those who are they would eventually see a 36% increase in their tax bill. There's no tax rise unless you're rich apparently according to the masses on social media, that narrative certainly isn't true.

Are the Labour plans not to re-introduce the small profits rate (which covered profits up to £300k) at 21% (currently 19%) and to increase the rate for bigger companies to 26% which is what it was up until 2012 and is lower than under the last Labour government??  Can you explain how a small ltd company's tax bill would rise by 36%??  Yes, if your company has pre-tax profits of say £500,000 your tax liability would rise from £95,000 to £130,000 (36.8% rise) but if your company has pre-tax profit of £50,000 your tax liability would go up from £9,500 to £10,500 (a rise of 10.5%)

I don't know what is rich but if you're making net profit in excess of £300,000 you're probably doing OK

I wasn't aware but if that is the case it makes my point completely irrelevant.

Just checked and you are right, genuinely wasn't aware.

I had to research that myself MM.  Just shows how it's important to dig below the headline, as the say the divil is in the detail.  One point, I wasn't able to find at what level the small profits rate would end and a company would start to pay the 26%.  It used to be £300k before it was done away with, but I suppose a it could be introduced at any level e.g. £50k in which case a huge amount of SMEs would fall into that bracket.

You're right in that in GB the rate of incorporation is higher than in NI where we have a big number of men, women and SMEs who still operate as sole proprietors.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 07, 2017, 03:29:19 PM
WTF

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/07/brexit-northern-ireland-irish-republic-hard-border-general-election-reunification

"Twelve miles from Belcoo in Enniskillen, County Fermanagh, Tom Elliott says he is not pressed on the doorstep about what the leave vote will mean. Voters are “more concerned about potholes on local roads than Brexit”, he adds."

Brexit will mean a lot more than potholes even if wine is still generally available at £5 a bottle
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: magpie seanie on June 07, 2017, 03:30:49 PM
WTF

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/07/brexit-northern-ireland-irish-republic-hard-border-general-election-reunification

"Twelve miles from Belcoo in Enniskillen, County Fermanagh, Tom Elliott says he is not pressed on the doorstep about what the leave vote will mean. Voters are “more concerned about potholes on local roads than Brexit”, he adds."

Brexit will mean a lot more than potholes even if wine is still generally available at £5 a bottle


The Unionists are absolutely frazzled over this. They don't know which was to turn. Everything they "know" is wrong.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 07, 2017, 05:52:16 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/jun/07/daily-mail-devotes-13-pages-to-attack-on-labour-apologists-for-terror
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 07, 2017, 06:33:36 PM
John Rentoul‏
 

LucidTalk projection, N Ireland: DUP 8 seats ±0, UUP 1 -1, Sinn Fein 5 +1, SDLP 3 ±0, Sylvia Hermon (Ind unionist) https://lucidtalk.co.uk/images/News/LTJune17TrackerPollResultsPoll3-GeneralReport.pdf …
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 08, 2017, 06:52:30 AM
A line from the Indo that captures the lunacy of the Conservatives who want a no deal Brexit and have done no preparation for it

"May has sought to portray Corbyn as the weak leader of a spendthrift party which would crash Britain's $2.5 trillion economy and lead the country to ruin in chaotic Brexit negotiations."
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: haranguerer on June 08, 2017, 09:46:45 AM
WTF

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/07/brexit-northern-ireland-irish-republic-hard-border-general-election-reunification

"Twelve miles from Belcoo in Enniskillen, County Fermanagh, Tom Elliott says he is not pressed on the doorstep about what the leave vote will mean. Voters are “more concerned about potholes on local roads than Brexit”, he adds."

Brexit will mean a lot more than potholes even if wine is still generally available at £5 a bottle


The Unionists are absolutely frazzled over this. They don't know which was to turn. Everything they "know" is wrong.

Toms making sure to talk only to his own brexiteers, but even at that, hes a liar
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AQMP on June 08, 2017, 10:57:35 AM
Voted on my way into work this morning.  I believe the weather is bad elsewhere in the North which may affect turnout, but it's dry here in Fermanagh at the moment.  Polling station was very quiet though mine is in a very rural part of the constituency.

I'll be upfront and say I voted for Michelle Gildernew purely on the basis she personally canvassed our house and asked for the vote and also (maybe this was a bigger motivator) that I cannot stand that Poundshop DUP, arch Brexiteer, Tom Elliott!
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Rois on June 08, 2017, 11:04:36 AM
I voted this morning too and it went against my usual principles, but as with you AQMP, my vote was motivated by trying to oust Nigel Dodds and I voted for the person I thought had the best chance of doing that (I can't even write it but I'm sure you get my meaning  :) )

Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: ned on June 08, 2017, 11:07:54 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBxqH7iXoAA_Teu.jpg
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: ned on June 08, 2017, 11:09:14 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBxqH7iXoAA_Teu.jpg

Crappie paper but a great antidote to the scum, telegraph etc.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Farrandeelin on June 08, 2017, 11:14:02 AM
What time will the votes be counted in NI? Tonight or tomorrow?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Samforever on June 08, 2017, 11:18:44 AM
Count starts tonight after polls close
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AQMP on June 08, 2017, 11:24:35 AM
I voted this morning too and it went against my usual principles, but as with you AQMP, my vote was motivated by trying to oust Nigel Dodds and I voted for the person I thought had the best chance of doing that (I can't even write it but I'm sure you get my meaning  :) )

Have a good hot bath and a large brandy tonight and you'll be alright tomorrow Rois!

I notice Paddy Power has Dodds at 1/3 and Finucane at 2/1, so all those people predicting a Finucane win aren't putting their money where their mouth is!  They also have Long a slight favourite in E Belfast and Hazzard of SF as a strong favourite to oust Ritchie in S Down.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Hardy on June 08, 2017, 11:41:07 AM
Betfair
Most seats
Tories 1/11
Lab. 14.5/1
Lib. 40/1
Tory majority 1/5
No majority 5.2/1


Two weeks on the Tories are consolidating strongly:
Most seats
Tories 1/20
Lab. 19/1
Lib. 150/1
Tory majority 1/11
No majority 13.5/1


Latest:
Most seats
Tories 1/33
Lab. 27/1
Lib. 370/1
Tory majority 1/14
No majority 19/1

Update:
Most seats
Tories 1/14
Lab. 13.5/1
Lib. 1000/1
Majority
Tory majority 1/6
No majority 7.5/1

Final betting show:
Most seats
Tories 1/20
Lab. 17.5/1
Lib. 1000/1
Majority
Tory majority 1/6
No majority 7.8/1
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Maroon Manc on June 08, 2017, 11:48:18 AM
I know that over here in the North West Labour have apparently put most of their effort into the seats where they hold a small majority, doesn't sound like they have any confidence tonight.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Minder on June 08, 2017, 11:53:36 AM
I know that over here in the North West Labour have apparently put most of their effort into the seats where they hold a small majority, doesn't sound like they have any confidence tonight.

As I said before there is a train of thought that Corbyn knows victory isn't happening and is trying to maximise Labour votes as an argument to continue as leader.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AQMP on June 08, 2017, 12:03:11 PM
I know that over here in the North West Labour have apparently put most of their effort into the seats where they hold a small majority, doesn't sound like they have any confidence tonight.

As I said before there is a train of thought that Corbyn knows victory isn't happening and is trying to maximise Labour votes as an argument to continue as leader.

Yep, I think Corbyn will be looking at the vote share as a measure of success/failure.  Labour got 30.4% in 2015, if they get anywhere around 33% (which 2 months ago would have been unthinkable) then he can make a good argument that it has been a success.  I read a piece in the English Independent just before May called the election in which Labour were at 23% and the commentator thought this was way over stated.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: yellowcard on June 08, 2017, 12:38:42 PM
I think the Tories will win easier than expected, a lot of people do not want to admit that they are Tory voters until it comes to casting their vote. The options are fairly stark also with so few parties and the fact that Labour are further left than normal and the Tories even further right than normal. The liberal democarts are not a viable alternative and tactical voters will discount them on the basis that they can't win in many constituencies in a FPTP system.

Either way though I think the narrative to be taken from this election is that May is a lame duck prime minister who has no conviction, cannot be trusted and has displayed an alarming inability to think on her feet when working off script. Although she will likely increase the governments majority, her own position is dubious in the mid-longer term. I think Corbyn will do enough to survive and if Brexit negotiations do not go as hoped, he could be in a better position to capitalise next time around. Certainly his own personal popularity has benefitted as he has taken all the mud that the media has slung at him and retained his dignity by not wavering.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Hardy on June 08, 2017, 12:44:47 PM
Is it the only election in history where, if things go as expected, the winner loses and the loser wins?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Maroon Manc on June 08, 2017, 12:55:32 PM
I think the Tories will win easier than expected, a lot of people do not want to admit that they are Tory voters until it comes to casting their vote. The options are fairly stark also with so few parties and the fact that Labour are further left than normal and the Tories even further right than normal. The liberal democarts are not a viable alternative and tactical voters will discount them on the basis that they can't win in many constituencies in a FPTP system.

Either way though I think the narrative to be taken from this election is that May is a lame duck prime minister who has no conviction, cannot be trusted and has displayed an alarming inability to think on her feet when working off script. Although she will likely increase the governments majority, her own position is dubious in the mid-longer term. I think Corbyn will do enough to survive and if Brexit negotiations do not go as hoped, he could be in a better position to capitalise next time around. Certainly his own personal popularity has benefitted as he has taken all the mud that the media has slung at him and retained his dignity by not wavering.

You not think Corbyn's age is an issue? just checked and he's 68; Thought he was younger than that.

Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on June 08, 2017, 12:59:29 PM
I think the Tories will win easier than expected, a lot of people do not want to admit that they are Tory voters until it comes to casting their vote. The options are fairly stark also with so few parties and the fact that Labour are further left than normal and the Tories even further right than normal. The liberal democarts are not a viable alternative and tactical voters will discount them on the basis that they can't win in many constituencies in a FPTP system.

Either way though I think the narrative to be taken from this election is that May is a lame duck prime minister who has no conviction, cannot be trusted and has displayed an alarming inability to think on her feet when working off script. Although she will likely increase the governments majority, her own position is dubious in the mid-longer term. I think Corbyn will do enough to survive and if Brexit negotiations do not go as hoped, he could be in a better position to capitalise next time around. Certainly his own personal popularity has benefitted as he has taken all the mud that the media has slung at him and retained his dignity by not wavering.

You not think Corbyn's age is an issue? just checked and he's 68; Thought he was younger than that.

Really?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AQMP on June 08, 2017, 01:04:21 PM
Is it the only election in history where, if things go as expected, the winner loses and the loser wins?

This could be a good election to lose ;)
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AQMP on June 08, 2017, 01:05:28 PM
I think the Tories will win easier than expected, a lot of people do not want to admit that they are Tory voters until it comes to casting their vote. The options are fairly stark also with so few parties and the fact that Labour are further left than normal and the Tories even further right than normal. The liberal democarts are not a viable alternative and tactical voters will discount them on the basis that they can't win in many constituencies in a FPTP system.

Either way though I think the narrative to be taken from this election is that May is a lame duck prime minister who has no conviction, cannot be trusted and has displayed an alarming inability to think on her feet when working off script. Although she will likely increase the governments majority, her own position is dubious in the mid-longer term. I think Corbyn will do enough to survive and if Brexit negotiations do not go as hoped, he could be in a better position to capitalise next time around. Certainly his own personal popularity has benefitted as he has taken all the mud that the media has slung at him and retained his dignity by not wavering.

You not think Corbyn's age is an issue? just checked and he's 68; Thought he was younger than that.

You've got to remember he was personally directing the IRA campaign in the 1970s.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: johnneycool on June 08, 2017, 01:07:57 PM
I think the Tories will win easier than expected, a lot of people do not want to admit that they are Tory voters until it comes to casting their vote. The options are fairly stark also with so few parties and the fact that Labour are further left than normal and the Tories even further right than normal. The liberal democarts are not a viable alternative and tactical voters will discount them on the basis that they can't win in many constituencies in a FPTP system.

Either way though I think the narrative to be taken from this election is that May is a lame duck prime minister who has no conviction, cannot be trusted and has displayed an alarming inability to think on her feet when working off script. Although she will likely increase the governments majority, her own position is dubious in the mid-longer term. I think Corbyn will do enough to survive and if Brexit negotiations do not go as hoped, he could be in a better position to capitalise next time around. Certainly his own personal popularity has benefitted as he has taken all the mud that the media has slung at him and retained his dignity by not wavering.

You not think Corbyn's age is an issue? just checked and he's 68; Thought he was younger than that.

You've got to remember he was personally directing the IRA campaign in the 1970s.

Younger than Trump and May is no spring chicken either, although she's visibly aged since taking up this poisoned chalice of leading the Tories/UKIP into the great unknown that is Brexit.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: yellowcard on June 08, 2017, 01:08:19 PM
I think the Tories will win easier than expected, a lot of people do not want to admit that they are Tory voters until it comes to casting their vote. The options are fairly stark also with so few parties and the fact that Labour are further left than normal and the Tories even further right than normal. The liberal democarts are not a viable alternative and tactical voters will discount them on the basis that they can't win in many constituencies in a FPTP system.

Either way though I think the narrative to be taken from this election is that May is a lame duck prime minister who has no conviction, cannot be trusted and has displayed an alarming inability to think on her feet when working off script. Although she will likely increase the governments majority, her own position is dubious in the mid-longer term. I think Corbyn will do enough to survive and if Brexit negotiations do not go as hoped, he could be in a better position to capitalise next time around. Certainly his own personal popularity has benefitted as he has taken all the mud that the media has slung at him and retained his dignity by not wavering.

You not think Corbyn's age is an issue? just checked and he's 68; Thought he was younger than that.

It possibly could be an issue alright if he decides so himself but I don't see the party taking steps to replace him. Short term at least, I think he will remain in position as there is a likelihood that the government will not see out it's full term given the volatile nature of the Brexit negotiations over the next 2-3 years. 
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Farrandeelin on June 08, 2017, 01:43:47 PM
Is it the only election in history where, if things go as expected, the winner loses and the loser wins?

This could be a good election to lose ;)

Our GE in 2007 was one as well.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: bennydorano on June 08, 2017, 01:53:58 PM
Is it the only election in history where, if things go as expected, the winner loses and the loser wins?
Nick Berry foresaw it
https://youtu.be/JyTzmhFQt2o
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Maroon Manc on June 08, 2017, 02:12:30 PM
I think the Tories will win easier than expected, a lot of people do not want to admit that they are Tory voters until it comes to casting their vote. The options are fairly stark also with so few parties and the fact that Labour are further left than normal and the Tories even further right than normal. The liberal democarts are not a viable alternative and tactical voters will discount them on the basis that they can't win in many constituencies in a FPTP system.

Either way though I think the narrative to be taken from this election is that May is a lame duck prime minister who has no conviction, cannot be trusted and has displayed an alarming inability to think on her feet when working off script. Although she will likely increase the governments majority, her own position is dubious in the mid-longer term. I think Corbyn will do enough to survive and if Brexit negotiations do not go as hoped, he could be in a better position to capitalise next time around. Certainly his own personal popularity has benefitted as he has taken all the mud that the media has slung at him and retained his dignity by not wavering.

You not think Corbyn's age is an issue? just checked and he's 68; Thought he was younger than that.

It possibly could be an issue alright if he decides so himself but I don't see the party taking steps to replace him. Short term at least, I think he will remain in position as there is a likelihood that the government will not see out it's full term given the volatile nature of the Brexit negotiations over the next 2-3 years.

Obviously there's the chance of the Tories not lasting the term if as expected they get in but surely there will be many within the Labour party who won't want to be relying on that given Corbyn will be 73 if the Tories last the 5 years?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Avondhu star on June 08, 2017, 02:21:16 PM
I think the Tories will win easier than expected, a lot of people do not want to admit that they are Tory voters until it comes to casting their vote. The options are fairly stark also with so few parties and the fact that Labour are further left than normal and the Tories even further right than normal. The liberal democarts are not a viable alternative and tactical voters will discount them on the basis that they can't win in many constituencies in a FPTP system.

Either way though I think the narrative to be taken from this election is that May is a lame duck prime minister who has no conviction, cannot be trusted and has displayed an alarming inability to think on her feet when working off script. Although she will likely increase the governments majority, her own position is dubious in the mid-longer term. I think Corbyn will do enough to survive and if Brexit negotiations do not go as hoped, he could be in a better position to capitalise next time around. Certainly his own personal popularity has benefitted as he has taken all the mud that the media has slung at him and retained his dignity by not wavering.

You not think Corbyn's age is an issue? just checked and he's 68; Thought he was younger than that.
Do we need old man Corbyn with his finger on the button? 😀
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: screenexile on June 08, 2017, 02:39:26 PM
I think the Tories will win easier than expected, a lot of people do not want to admit that they are Tory voters until it comes to casting their vote. The options are fairly stark also with so few parties and the fact that Labour are further left than normal and the Tories even further right than normal. The liberal democarts are not a viable alternative and tactical voters will discount them on the basis that they can't win in many constituencies in a FPTP system.

Either way though I think the narrative to be taken from this election is that May is a lame duck prime minister who has no conviction, cannot be trusted and has displayed an alarming inability to think on her feet when working off script. Although she will likely increase the governments majority, her own position is dubious in the mid-longer term. I think Corbyn will do enough to survive and if Brexit negotiations do not go as hoped, he could be in a better position to capitalise next time around. Certainly his own personal popularity has benefitted as he has taken all the mud that the media has slung at him and retained his dignity by not wavering.

You not think Corbyn's age is an issue? just checked and he's 68; Thought he was younger than that.
Do we need old man Corbyn with his finger on the button? 😀

Trump's 70 and May looks as if she's 70!!!
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AQMP on June 08, 2017, 03:00:10 PM
I think the Tories will win easier than expected, a lot of people do not want to admit that they are Tory voters until it comes to casting their vote. The options are fairly stark also with so few parties and the fact that Labour are further left than normal and the Tories even further right than normal. The liberal democarts are not a viable alternative and tactical voters will discount them on the basis that they can't win in many constituencies in a FPTP system.

Either way though I think the narrative to be taken from this election is that May is a lame duck prime minister who has no conviction, cannot be trusted and has displayed an alarming inability to think on her feet when working off script. Although she will likely increase the governments majority, her own position is dubious in the mid-longer term. I think Corbyn will do enough to survive and if Brexit negotiations do not go as hoped, he could be in a better position to capitalise next time around. Certainly his own personal popularity has benefitted as he has taken all the mud that the media has slung at him and retained his dignity by not wavering.

You not think Corbyn's age is an issue? just checked and he's 68; Thought he was younger than that.
Do we need old man Corbyn with his finger on the button? 😀

Trump's 70 and May looks as if she's 70!!!

And as for Macron's missus...
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: johnneycool on June 08, 2017, 03:18:40 PM
I think the Tories will win easier than expected, a lot of people do not want to admit that they are Tory voters until it comes to casting their vote. The options are fairly stark also with so few parties and the fact that Labour are further left than normal and the Tories even further right than normal. The liberal democarts are not a viable alternative and tactical voters will discount them on the basis that they can't win in many constituencies in a FPTP system.

Either way though I think the narrative to be taken from this election is that May is a lame duck prime minister who has no conviction, cannot be trusted and has displayed an alarming inability to think on her feet when working off script. Although she will likely increase the governments majority, her own position is dubious in the mid-longer term. I think Corbyn will do enough to survive and if Brexit negotiations do not go as hoped, he could be in a better position to capitalise next time around. Certainly his own personal popularity has benefitted as he has taken all the mud that the media has slung at him and retained his dignity by not wavering.

You not think Corbyn's age is an issue? just checked and he's 68; Thought he was younger than that.
Do we need old man Corbyn with his finger on the button? 😀

Corbyn's finger won't be near any button even if he is elected, he's more wit. You can't say that about the lunatic in the White House.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: yellowcard on June 08, 2017, 03:32:22 PM
I think the Tories will win easier than expected, a lot of people do not want to admit that they are Tory voters until it comes to casting their vote. The options are fairly stark also with so few parties and the fact that Labour are further left than normal and the Tories even further right than normal. The liberal democarts are not a viable alternative and tactical voters will discount them on the basis that they can't win in many constituencies in a FPTP system.

Either way though I think the narrative to be taken from this election is that May is a lame duck prime minister who has no conviction, cannot be trusted and has displayed an alarming inability to think on her feet when working off script. Although she will likely increase the governments majority, her own position is dubious in the mid-longer term. I think Corbyn will do enough to survive and if Brexit negotiations do not go as hoped, he could be in a better position to capitalise next time around. Certainly his own personal popularity has benefitted as he has taken all the mud that the media has slung at him and retained his dignity by not wavering.

You not think Corbyn's age is an issue? just checked and he's 68; Thought he was younger than that.

It possibly could be an issue alright if he decides so himself but I don't see the party taking steps to replace him. Short term at least, I think he will remain in position as there is a likelihood that the government will not see out it's full term given the volatile nature of the Brexit negotiations over the next 2-3 years.

Obviously there's the chance of the Tories not lasting the term if as expected they get in but surely there will be many within the Labour party who won't want to be relying on that given Corbyn will be 73 if the Tories last the 5 years?

There are many within his own parliamentary party who don't want him there already and age is the least of their concerns. If he does as well as the polls suggest though it will be difficult for the next labour leader to be another Tory light Blair type candidate though.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Minder on June 08, 2017, 03:53:11 PM
I think the Tories will win easier than expected, a lot of people do not want to admit that they are Tory voters until it comes to casting their vote. The options are fairly stark also with so few parties and the fact that Labour are further left than normal and the Tories even further right than normal. The liberal democarts are not a viable alternative and tactical voters will discount them on the basis that they can't win in many constituencies in a FPTP system.

Either way though I think the narrative to be taken from this election is that May is a lame duck prime minister who has no conviction, cannot be trusted and has displayed an alarming inability to think on her feet when working off script. Although she will likely increase the governments majority, her own position is dubious in the mid-longer term. I think Corbyn will do enough to survive and if Brexit negotiations do not go as hoped, he could be in a better position to capitalise next time around. Certainly his own personal popularity has benefitted as he has taken all the mud that the media has slung at him and retained his dignity by not wavering.

You not think Corbyn's age is an issue? just checked and he's 68; Thought he was younger than that.

It possibly could be an issue alright if he decides so himself but I don't see the party taking steps to replace him. Short term at least, I think he will remain in position as there is a likelihood that the government will not see out it's full term given the volatile nature of the Brexit negotiations over the next 2-3 years.

Obviously there's the chance of the Tories not lasting the term if as expected they get in but surely there will be many within the Labour party who won't want to be relying on that given Corbyn will be 73 if the Tories last the 5 years?

There are many within his own parliamentary party who don't want him there already and age is the least of their concerns. If he does as well as the polls suggest though it will be difficult for the next labour leader to be another Tory light Blair type candidate though.

I think whoever is standing in for Diane Abbott as Shadow Home Secretary resigned from the shadow cabinet before in protest at Corbyns leadership 
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: macdanger2 on June 08, 2017, 06:33:32 PM
I'd say corbyn's main aim is not necessarily to become PM but to groom a non-Blairite as the next leader to secure the Labour party as a genuine party of the left for the future
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: red hander on June 08, 2017, 06:54:25 PM
I think the Tories will win easier than expected, a lot of people do not want to admit that they are Tory voters until it comes to casting their vote. The options are fairly stark also with so few parties and the fact that Labour are further left than normal and the Tories even further right than normal. The liberal democarts are not a viable alternative and tactical voters will discount them on the basis that they can't win in many constituencies in a FPTP system.

Either way though I think the narrative to be taken from this election is that May is a lame duck prime minister who has no conviction, cannot be trusted and has displayed an alarming inability to think on her feet when working off script. Although she will likely increase the governments majority, her own position is dubious in the mid-longer term. I think Corbyn will do enough to survive and if Brexit negotiations do not go as hoped, he could be in a better position to capitalise next time around. Certainly his own personal popularity has benefitted as he has taken all the mud that the media has slung at him and retained his dignity by not wavering.

You not think Corbyn's age is an issue? just checked and he's 68; Thought he was younger than that.
Do we need old man Corbyn with his finger on the button? 😀

Trump's 70 and May looks as if she's 70!!!

Very gallant for a Derry man... but she looks as if she's a lot older than 70  ;)
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 08, 2017, 07:39:01 PM
I'd say corbyn's main aim is not necessarily to become PM but to groom a non-Blairite as the next leader to secure the Labour party as a genuine party of the left for the future
Me too. To change the economic system which at this stage is nonsense anyway
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Aaron Boone on June 08, 2017, 08:08:12 PM
The polls were wrong for Cameron's majority in 2015, for Brexit and for Trump. I have a cheeky fiver on Jeremy next PM 7/1.

The first bearded PM in over a century.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: imtommygunn on June 08, 2017, 08:44:50 PM
I would love it if you were right but sadly i don't think you will be :(
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: anportmorforjfc on June 08, 2017, 08:46:45 PM
The polls were wrong for Cameron's majority in 2015, for Brexit and for Trump. I have a cheeky fiver on Jeremy next PM 7/1.

The first bearded PM in over a century.

He's 9/2 at the minute!
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Hardy on June 08, 2017, 08:48:49 PM
My cheeky few bob is on a hung parliament at 6/1.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: OgraAnDun on June 08, 2017, 08:50:02 PM
My cheeky few bob is on a hung parliament at 6/1.

Much smarter option.


EDIT: Down to 4/1 on PP now.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 08, 2017, 08:59:17 PM
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-three-scenarios-for-the-u-k-election/

We don’t have a model of this election — but in our view, there’s no way around the fact that uncertainty is high and that nobody should be surprised about the outcome unless perhaps Labour wins an outright majority of seats. U.K. polls have not historically been very accurate. And pundit attempts to outguess the polls have often been even worse. (In 2016, pundits and betting markets were notoriously confident that Britain would vote to remain within the European Union even when polls showed a nearly even race.) However, if one takes the polling average but assumes that the error is as high as it has been historically, then it turns out that each of these three outcomes are roughly as likely as one another:

Scenario No. 1: Narrow-ish Conservative majority
In this case, the polling average is fairly accurate (although some individual polls will unavoidably be off). May wins by 5 to 9 percentage points, close to the 6.5-point margin that Conservatives won by in 2015. At the higher end of this range, Conservatives might gain one or two dozen seats in Parliament from the 330 they had (there are 650 seats in total). At the narrower end, they might just barely hang onto their majority.
Either outcome would be disappointing relative to when May called the election in April — when Conservatives were ahead by about 17 points on average and possibly headed for a 400-seat majority — and wouldn’t speak highly of her political skills. But it would also be something of a relief given how much polls have tightened since then and still possibly give them their largest majority since 1987.

Scenario No. 2: Conservative landslide
Since Conservatives lead by 6 to 7 percentage points on average, and since U.K. polls have missed by an average of about 4 points in the past, it’s not at all hard to imagine them winning the popular vote by double digits. Indeed, Conservatives have often outperformed their polls in recent U.K. elections, such as in 2015 when polls implied a hung parliament and they instead won a majority. On Saturday, we made a long argument as to why this doesn’t necessarily imply that they will beat their polls again. The gist of it is that pollsters are seeking to correct for their past errors — in some cases, by applying turnout models that shift the polls by several percentage points in Tories’ favor — so it may be a mistake to apply a mental adjustment on top of the one that pollsters are already making.
But a Conservative overperformance is certainly possible if Labour’s youth turnout doesn’t materialize, if undecided voters worry about the unpopular Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn running the government, or if the terror attack pushes voters to May. Such an outcome might yield somewhere in the neighborhood of 375 seats in Parliament for Conservatives — perhaps more if Labour holds ground in the cities but collapses in working-class areas, as happened to Democrats in the 2016 U.S. election.

Scenario No. 3: Conservatives lose their majority
To be precise, I mean that Conservatives win fewer than 326 seats; we’re making no predictions about whether they’d then find a coalition partner to form their next government or if there would be some sort of Corbyn-led government instead. Betting markets as of Wednesday night imply there’s only about a 15 percent chance of Conservatives failing to win an outright majority.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: mrdeeds on June 08, 2017, 09:09:02 PM
Corbyn has ran a great campaign in fairness regardless of result.  May is an absolutely terrible leader and no way could she be trusted to negotiate Brexit.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 08, 2017, 09:14:57 PM
I was just looking at oddschecker.  Tories are 1/12 for a majority . May is 4/1 to continue as PM. That suggests she won't be leading the Brexit suicide. 
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Avondhu star on June 08, 2017, 09:25:37 PM
I think the Tories will win easier than expected, a lot of people do not want to admit that they are Tory voters until it comes to casting their vote. The options are fairly stark also with so few parties and the fact that Labour are further left than normal and the Tories even further right than normal. The liberal democarts are not a viable alternative and tactical voters will discount them on the basis that they can't win in many constituencies in a FPTP system.

Either way though I think the narrative to be taken from this election is that May is a lame duck prime minister who has no conviction, cannot be trusted and has displayed an alarming inability to think on her feet when working off script. Although she will likely increase the governments majority, her own position is dubious in the mid-longer term. I think Corbyn will do enough to survive and if Brexit negotiations do not go as hoped, he could be in a better position to capitalise next time around. Certainly his own personal popularity has benefitted as he has taken all the mud that the media has slung at him and retained his dignity by not wavering.

You not think Corbyn's age is an issue? just checked and he's 68; Thought he was younger than that.
Do we need old man Corbyn with his finger on the button? 😀

Trump's 70 and May looks as if she's 70!!!

And as for Macron's missus...
The older the fiddle the sweeter the tune
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Capt Pat on June 08, 2017, 10:02:22 PM
Disaster for May and the Tories, as they lose their majority according to the exit poll.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: mrdeeds on June 08, 2017, 10:02:52 PM
May is goosed. Delighted for her weakness.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: LeoMc on June 08, 2017, 10:04:17 PM
And not even the DUP can put them over the top.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: dec on June 08, 2017, 10:04:35 PM
Exit polls have underestimated the Tories in the past.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: mrdeeds on June 08, 2017, 10:05:35 PM
Exit polls have underestimated the Tories in the past.

Even if they have a majority May's position is unattainable.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 08, 2017, 10:09:45 PM
The Tories put the "n" back in cuts, as Sandi Toksvig noted.
May is even worse at her job than McGeeney.

David Dimbleby is reading out the results.
Conservatives: 314
Labour: 266
SNP: 34
Lib Dems: 14
Plaid Cymru: 3
Greens: 1
Ukip: 0
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: OgraAnDun on June 08, 2017, 10:10:43 PM
If the exit polls are right, could be another election within the next month or so. Can't see any coalition being able to be brought together with those results.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: armaghniac on June 08, 2017, 10:11:20 PM
Interesting times. If May goes then what sort of looper will they get? Will a low poll be interpreted as being against hard-line Brexiteer crap?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: mouview on June 08, 2017, 10:13:02 PM
Exit polls have underestimated the Tories in the past.

Even if they have a majority May's position is unattainable.

You mean untenable?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Shamrock Shore on June 08, 2017, 10:13:50 PM
Good. Glad the miserable auld bag got a kicking.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 08, 2017, 10:14:38 PM
Interesting times. If May goes then what sort of looper will they get? Will a low poll be interpreted as being against hard-line Brexiteer crap?
They have to get an adult in. Hard Brexit wil destroy the party once voters join the dots.

Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: mrdeeds on June 08, 2017, 10:14:54 PM
Interesting times. If May goes then what sort of looper will they get? Will a low poll be interpreted as being against hard-line Brexiteer crap?

Maybe someone that brings them back near the centre and more electable.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: bennydorano on June 08, 2017, 10:15:28 PM
Dup currently creaming their pants, possible King makers again. Last thing NI needs.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: trileacman on June 08, 2017, 10:16:32 PM
Interesting times. If May goes then what sort of looper will they get? Will a low poll be interpreted as being against hard-line Brexiteer crap?
They have to get an adult in. Hard Brexit wil destroy the party once voters join the dots.

You're like a broken record.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 08, 2017, 10:18:17 PM
Interesting times. If May goes then what sort of looper will they get? Will a low poll be interpreted as being against hard-line Brexiteer crap?

Maybe someone that brings them back near the centre and more electable.
The UK is polarised . So is the US.
Very hard to craft a message to bring enough people together to create a majority. Like how would you bring Daily Mail Readers and Guardian readers together ?
 
This would also be a bad result for the vile Daily Mail.
May was an absolute catastrophe.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: trileacman on June 08, 2017, 10:18:53 PM
Dup currently creaming their pants, possible King makers again. Last thing NI needs.

Nah, they offer such a little bump in parliament that even all the NI seats pooled together would hardly make a substantial enough group in Westminster.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: rory on June 08, 2017, 10:19:09 PM
The 'Magic Number' for the Tories is 325 as the speaker doesn't vote.
If Sinn Fein win 4 seats, the magic number becomes 321 (as they don't take their seats)
Exit poll says 314 + 8 DUP = 322

Scary scenario....
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 08, 2017, 10:20:08 PM
Interesting times. If May goes then what sort of looper will they get? Will a low poll be interpreted as being against hard-line Brexiteer crap?
They have to get an adult in. Hard Brexit wil destroy the party once voters join the dots.

You're like a broken record.
If you forget about it it will all work out
Brexit talks start in 10 days.  They can't afford another election
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Minder on June 08, 2017, 10:20:19 PM
May finished ?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: thewobbler on June 08, 2017, 10:21:17 PM
From recent years it would appear that exit polls are run by media students who only interview hipsters, young people and friendly faces.

They're even an less reliable representation of general public thinking than Twitter, and I would put no stock in them whatsoever.

Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 08, 2017, 10:23:38 PM
From recent years it would appear that exit polls are run by media students who only interview hipsters, young people and friendly faces.

They're even an less reliable representation of general public thinking than Twitter, and I would put no stock in them whatsoever.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: trileacman on June 08, 2017, 10:24:18 PM
From recent years it would appear that exit polls are run by media students who only interview hipsters, young people and friendly faces.

They're even an less reliable representation of general public thinking than Twitter, and I would put no stock in them whatsoever.

I thought it was the opinion polls that were shite and exit polls that were decent?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 08, 2017, 10:27:24 PM
theresa_may
 If I lose just six seats I will lose this election and Jeremy Corbyn will be sitting down to negotiate with Europe: https://www.facebook.com/TheresaMayOfficial/posts/1737355726281193 …
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AZOffaly on June 08, 2017, 10:27:51 PM
May finished ?

Yeah, it's well into June now.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 08, 2017, 10:35:17 PM
When the election was called the Tories were 20 points ahead. They looked like Real Madrid. Now they look like Arsenal. 
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: mrdeeds on June 08, 2017, 10:36:19 PM
Boris to replace her and negotiate Brexit? How has it come to this.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Capt Pat on June 08, 2017, 10:37:17 PM
From recent years it would appear that exit polls are run by media students who only interview hipsters, young people and friendly faces.

They're even an less reliable representation of general public thinking than Twitter, and I would put no stock in them whatsoever.

I thought it was the opinion polls that were shite and exit polls that were decent?

I think the story of this election is the opinion polls of 8 weeks ago that May and her advisors looked at and thought it would be a good idea to call a general election. These have turned out to be wrong by a wide margin.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: OgraAnDun on June 08, 2017, 10:38:31 PM
From recent years it would appear that exit polls are run by media students who only interview hipsters, young people and friendly faces.

They're even an less reliable representation of general public thinking than Twitter, and I would put no stock in them whatsoever.

I thought it was the opinion polls that were shite and exit polls that were decent?

I think the story of this election is the opinion polls of 8 weeks ago that May and her advisors looked at and thought it would be a good idea to call a general election. These have turned out to be wrong by a wide margin.

I don't think the polls were wrong eight weeks ago, it's that the Tories have shot themselves in the foot repeatedly since then and Labour have managed to stand up to the negative publicity and come out the other side of it.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on June 08, 2017, 10:41:13 PM
Boris to replace her and negotiate Brexit? How has it come to this.

Philip Hammond the one to watch if she falls.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: mrdeeds on June 08, 2017, 10:46:05 PM
Sure Sinn Fein will be players now.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: bennydorano on June 08, 2017, 10:47:27 PM
Exit polls are far more reliable than Opinion polls. Still wouldn't like the mortgage riding on it being proven right tho.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: yellowcard on June 08, 2017, 10:56:26 PM
Don't want to get too excited but it would be brilliant if the Tories were over turned.

Worse case scenario I think May is finished, the exit poll won't be that far out.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 08, 2017, 11:01:08 PM
Boris to replace her and negotiate Brexit? How has it come to this.
All the contenders who failed last time due to personality flaws will be ruled out

Rudd and Hammond I'd say this time
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 08, 2017, 11:03:31 PM
Anti-Brexit parties holding the balance of power, eh?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: trileacman on June 08, 2017, 11:04:00 PM
Last exit poll underestimated tory seats by 15.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Harold Disgracey on June 08, 2017, 11:07:03 PM
Boris to replace her and negotiate Brexit? How has it come to this.
All the contenders who failed last time due to personality flaws will be ruled out

Rudd and Hammond I'd say this time

Amber Rudd might lose her seat!
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: mrdeeds on June 08, 2017, 11:09:33 PM
2 0 Labour at moment. Blow it up ref.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 08, 2017, 11:12:30 PM
Last exit poll underestimated tory seats by 15.
Cameron had more charisma than strong and wobbly
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: trileacman on June 08, 2017, 11:14:09 PM
Who's this SF w**ker on BBCNI, such a hateful ****.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: yellowcard on June 08, 2017, 11:25:40 PM
Jeffrey Donaldson looking fierce smug, reckons they are. If players in Westminster. Dream on Jeffrey.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: mrdeeds on June 08, 2017, 11:29:07 PM
Sinn Fein actually could be influential. Aren't Corbyn and Gerry buddies?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 08, 2017, 11:29:53 PM
George Osborne

"But you know we are all talking about a poll. So I’m nervous of making certain statements but look, the problem she will have if it’s anything like that number, she’s got Irish unionists..."

Yeah, they are Irish
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Minder on June 08, 2017, 11:35:38 PM
Maybe being a bit hasty here, Tories seemingly more confident now
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: ballinaman on June 08, 2017, 11:38:27 PM
If this is another Brexit/Trump middle of the night turnaround I'll be rightly pissed off in the morning
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 08, 2017, 11:42:15 PM
The Shinners could make the difference here, by not taking their seats they'll give the majority to the Tories with the UUP and DUP propping up the Tories!! Worst case scenario
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: OgraAnDun on June 08, 2017, 11:42:32 PM
Quote
Mark Simpson
@BBCMarkSimpson

When told exit poll predicted hung parliament, a DUP member said: "Look forward to Tories offering DUP MP job as Sec of State for N Ireland"

What a horrifying thought.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Rossfan on June 08, 2017, 11:44:53 PM
It will get the soft Nationalists and the "Northern Irish" off the fence anyway.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: OgraAnDun on June 08, 2017, 11:46:58 PM
Anything to stop a UI referendum.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: screenexile on June 08, 2017, 11:51:43 PM
Some amount of sweeping statements on Twitter/Facebook/everywhere being prefaced by "if this poll is correct".
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 08, 2017, 11:52:01 PM
The Shinners could make the difference here, by not taking their seats they'll give the majority to the Tories with the UUP and DUP propping up the Tories!! Worst case scenario

I wonder if it'd be big enough to wake the shinners up out of their abstentionist nonsense.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: ONeill on June 08, 2017, 11:52:22 PM
A lot of hand gestures by analysts this year.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: mrdeeds on June 09, 2017, 12:00:17 AM
The Shinners could make the difference here, by not taking their seats they'll give the majority to the Tories with the UUP and DUP propping up the Tories!! Worst case scenario

I wonder if it'd be big enough to wake the shinners up out of their abstentionist nonsense.

Gerry Adams has confirmed that the policy remains.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 09, 2017, 12:04:42 AM
The Shinners could make the difference here, by not taking their seats they'll give the majority to the Tories with the UUP and DUP propping up the Tories!! Worst case scenario

I wonder if it'd be big enough to wake the shinners up out of their abstentionist nonsense.

Gerry Adams has confirmed that the policy remains.

Talk about shooting yourselves in the foot!! Can they not cross their fingers during the pledge or wink ;D ;D
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 09, 2017, 12:04:58 AM
The Shinners could make the difference here, by not taking their seats they'll give the majority to the Tories with the UUP and DUP propping up the Tories!! Worst case scenario

I wonder if it'd be big enough to wake the shinners up out of their abstentionist nonsense.

Gerry Adams has confirmed that the policy remains.
Typically conservative
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: ONeill on June 09, 2017, 12:12:12 AM
Cynical delayed audio of Adams on ITV
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Main Street on June 09, 2017, 12:14:11 AM
So, Jeremy being repeatedly tagged as an inveterate fellow traveler of the IRA, didn't cost him votes in an era of ultra terror paranoia?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: ONeill on June 09, 2017, 12:16:15 AM
UKiP have been demolished but hard to know where they're going.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 09, 2017, 12:24:33 AM
Based on the exit poll:

Lab 266
+Lib 14
+SNP 34
= 314

Falls 11 short. The left would need to piece together a rainbow coalition with the SDLP and whoever else is about.

Con 314
+Lib14
= 328

Slim majority but a majority nonetheless. Lib Dems could insist on a second Brexit referendum as a condition of propping up the Tories.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AQMP on June 09, 2017, 12:30:33 AM
If that exit poll is anyway accurate May must finished. Brexit plans fucked too.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Syferus on June 09, 2017, 12:32:37 AM
Based on the exit poll:

Lab 266
+Lib 14
+SNP 34
= 314

Falls 11 short. The left would need to piece together a rainbow coalition with the SDLP and whoever else is about.

Con 314
+Lib14
= 328

Slim majority but a majority nonetheless. Lib Dems could insist on a second Brexit referendum as a condition of propping up the Tories.

Libs already said they won't be going in with the Tories, voter suicide to backtrack on that. Second election is the most likely outcome.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Hardy on June 09, 2017, 12:43:48 AM
Based on the exit poll:

Lab 266
+Lib 14
+SNP 34
= 314

Falls 11 short. The left would need to piece together a rainbow coalition with the SDLP and whoever else is about.

Con 314
+Lib14
= 328

Slim majority but a majority nonetheless. Lib Dems could insist on a second Brexit referendum as a condition of propping up the Tories.

Libs already said they won't be going in with the Tories, voter suicide to backtrack on that. Second election is the most likely outcome.

How could they not change that stance, since changing would see their policy implemented?This is the best potential outcome.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: dec on June 09, 2017, 12:50:34 AM
Are the NI constituencies counting tonight or waiting to start in the morning?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: maggie on June 09, 2017, 12:51:12 AM
Alex Kane on Twitter has it DUP gains in South Belfast and South Antrim.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Tony Baloney on June 09, 2017, 12:51:34 AM
Based on the exit poll:

Lab 266
+Lib 14
+SNP 34
= 314

Falls 11 short. The left would need to piece together a rainbow coalition with the SDLP and whoever else is about.

Con 314
+Lib14
= 328

Slim majority but a majority nonetheless. Lib Dems could insist on a second Brexit referendum as a condition of propping up the Tories.

Libs already said they won't be going in with the Tories, voter suicide to backtrack on that. Second election is the most likely outcome.
They reneged on election promises in 2010 so if they are in a strong bargaining position they should stick it in and break off the handle. After this result I'd say the Tories will be very amenable to discussions as they'll not want another run at the election.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: angermanagement on June 09, 2017, 12:53:53 AM
Where's this twat Matt from ?

Is this the next generation of SF?

Surely they've better reps to put on tv.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Rois on June 09, 2017, 12:57:42 AM
Are the NI constituencies counting tonight or waiting to start in the morning?
Counting tonight
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Carmen Stateside on June 09, 2017, 01:04:29 AM
Matt Carthy was brilliant, the two orange robots at the end of the table fare came to life when he started
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on June 09, 2017, 01:19:33 AM
Lady Sylvia back on top.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: BennyHarp on June 09, 2017, 01:20:18 AM
Corbyn 10/11 May 5/4 with Paddy Power to be next PM
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on June 09, 2017, 01:31:06 AM
Corbyn 10/11 May 5/4 with Paddy Power to be next PM

 8) 8)
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: gallsman on June 09, 2017, 01:51:34 AM
Looks like Pengelly getting in...
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Carmen Stateside on June 09, 2017, 01:57:33 AM
Mayday! Mayday! its all going horribly wrong Theresa
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on June 09, 2017, 02:00:16 AM
Recount called by Durkan in Foyle as prospect of SDLP MP wipe out mooted.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: dec on June 09, 2017, 02:13:00 AM
Recount called by Durkan in Foyle as prospect of SDLP MP wipe out mooted.

Slightly larger chance of a Con/DUP government
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on June 09, 2017, 02:16:45 AM
Some huge numbers being posted by the DUP for FFS. No hope for this place that despite everything so many unionists still blindly vote for them.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Hardy on June 09, 2017, 02:29:46 AM
Amazing that if the Tories survive it will be because of a massive Tory vote in Scotland - unimaginable hitherto. Also bye bye Scottish independence after a Brexit vote Scotland opposed. Bizzare.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AQMP on June 09, 2017, 02:34:18 AM
Amazing that if the Tories survive it will be because of a massive Tory vote in Scotland - unimaginable hitherto. Also bye bye Scottish independence after a Brexit vote Scotland opposed. Bizzare.
Amazing. The professional pollsters may pull the shutters down.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Carmen Stateside on June 09, 2017, 02:58:05 AM
Looks like the end of the road for the Stoops. Hazard expected to win
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Farrandeelin on June 09, 2017, 05:37:28 AM
UUP wiped out also. 10 DUP, 7 SF and the independent.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: omochain on June 09, 2017, 06:02:47 AM
Looks like Arlene and Co will be calling the shots.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 09, 2017, 06:07:14 AM
A second election might not get a better result. The people are hopelessly divided.  In Ireland in 1981 there was a similar situation . There was a hung Dail and it took 3 elections to sort it out.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 09, 2017, 06:10:55 AM
It won't be good enough for the Tories to scrape over the line with our wee party. The reason May called the election was because she needed a bigger majority to deal with Brexit.  She couldn't be held to ransom by whatever the English equivalent of Waterford hospital is.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 09, 2017, 06:51:44 AM
David Davis concedes UK government may have lost mandate to exit customs union and single market (Sky, 2.30am). pic.twitter.com/9o9oxrvhf0
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Avondhu star on June 09, 2017, 06:56:04 AM
Another election by the Autumn. Scottish independence gone for a generation at least. This weakens any chance of a border poll in the North. The D.U.P. c**k a hoop and lining up to support the Tories. S.F. finishing off the S.D.L.P. but not much use when D.U.P. have the ear of the Prime Minister
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: T Fearon on June 09, 2017, 07:25:11 AM
Took the Hung Parliament 5/1 offer from SkyBet a few weeks ago! 👍
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AQMP on June 09, 2017, 07:28:50 AM
Hard, red white & blue Brexit is now a pipe dream
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 09, 2017, 07:29:41 AM
Another election by the Autumn. Scottish independence gone for a generation at least. This weakens any chance of a border poll in the North. The D.U.P. c**k a hoop and lining up to support the Tories. S.F. finishing off the S.D.L.P. but not much use when D.U.P. have the ear of the Prime Minister
You can't say anything is gone for a generation when the system is so polarised. The people are all;over the place.

Is abstention a Gerry Adams thing ? Would younger Shinners be likely to change the policy when he moves on ?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 09, 2017, 07:34:44 AM
Took the Hung Parliament 5/1 offer from SkyBet a few weeks ago! 👍

Course you did, king of the bets posts, after they happen ;D
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: ned on June 09, 2017, 07:50:46 AM
Took the Hung Parliament 5/1 offer from SkyBet a few weeks ago! 👍

Course you did, king of the bets posts, after they happen ;D
Missed out on better odds elsewhere, too.
Angry with the Scottish electorate. Large swathes of rural Scotland voted tory. The farmers will be whinging even more when all their grants disappear. Turkeys the lot of them.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Avondhu star on June 09, 2017, 07:53:18 AM
Took the Hung Parliament 5/1 offer from SkyBet a few weeks ago! 👍

Course you did, king of the bets posts, after they happen ;D
Probably in a double with O Briens 40/1 winner last Saturday
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Dougal Maguire on June 09, 2017, 07:57:57 AM
Corbyn' policies are as bird brained as Micheal Foot's back in the early 80s.He has yet to learn that commmunism/socialism is great as long as someone else pays the bills.

Election should render the DUP members at Westminster surplus to requirements at Westminster.SNP had their best ever election last time,just like SF they deliver little or nothing,and a lot of Scots are beginning to see through them.

Overall this could be as bad for Labour as 1997 was for the Tories.
Hung Parliament my arse!
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: StGallsGAA on June 09, 2017, 08:13:24 AM
At least we'll see the end of Teresa May.  God forbid a coalition that has the DUP in it tho.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: randomusername on June 09, 2017, 08:20:29 AM
The DUP picked up an extra 60k votes from the Assembly election while the other parties remained fairly static. Bit grim.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: stew on June 09, 2017, 08:22:16 AM
At least we'll see the end of Teresa May.  God forbid a coalition that has the DUP in it tho.

Will never happen, not even the hateful tories will align themselves with the backward homophobes of the dup.

Corbyn could be PM here in a coalition government......... It could hapen.

may does not even have the class to do the right thing and step down, what an arrogant wee woman she is.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: MoChara on June 09, 2017, 08:24:27 AM
At least we'll see the end of Teresa May.  God forbid a coalition that has the DUP in it tho.

Will never happen, not even the hateful tories will align themselves with the backward homophobes of the dup.

Corbyn could be PM here in a coalition government......... It could hapen.

may does not even have the class to do the right thing and step down, what an arrogant wee woman she is.

I think you give the Tories too much credit, they'll certainly jump into bed with the DUP. Even their own members are tweeting about the new hospitals that will spring up in the North.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: stew on June 09, 2017, 08:27:32 AM
At least we'll see the end of Teresa May.  God forbid a coalition that has the DUP in it tho.

Will never happen, not even the hateful tories will align themselves with the backward homophobes of the dup.

Corbyn could be PM here in a coalition government......... It could hapen.

may does not even have the class to do the right thing and step down, what an arrogant wee woman she is.

I think you give the Tories too much credit, they'll certainly jump into bed with the DUP. Even their own members are tweeting about the new hospitals that will spring up in the North.

Maybe but they would be a last resort and there is just too much downside to aligning yourself with the knuckledraggers, which of course will be exploited by a resurgent Corbyn and the labour party.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Avondhu star on June 09, 2017, 08:28:22 AM
At least we'll see the end of Teresa May.  God forbid a coalition that has the DUP in it tho.

Will never happen, not even the hateful tories will align themselves with the backward homophobes of the dup.

Corbyn could be PM here in a coalition government......... It could hapen.

may does not even have the class to do the right thing and step down, what an arrogant wee woman she is.
You have the Tories and D.U.P. desperate for power. Of course the Tories will pull in the D.U.P.  They are on the phone already. Arlene Foster has strengthened her position. If they can manipulate the Tories they won't be too bothered about the Stormont county council
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Owen Brannigan on June 09, 2017, 08:31:54 AM
Theresa May sought a personal mandate and increased CON vote to the highest level since 2001.

Jeremy Corbyn sought a party mandate and increased Labour vote to beat Blair's last vote.

It was back to the economy, stupid.  People voted in referendum against austere times and this has been repeated.  The UKIPers split between LAB and CON.

DUP have called out the vote and set back any notion of a border poll for many years. 46.3% Unionist  41.1% Nationalist

DUP    36.0
SF    29.4
SDLP 11.7
UUP    10.3
APNI 7.9
GRN    0.9

Biggest danger for SF is that DUP get another Assembly election from CONs and put themselves back into the driving seat.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 09, 2017, 08:34:14 AM
The demographics are against the DUP.

This is very good as well
https://www.facebook.com/mark.mcgowan.969/videos/1532849036777244/
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: stew on June 09, 2017, 08:34:59 AM
At least we'll see the end of Teresa May.  God forbid a coalition that has the DUP in it tho.

Will never happen, not even the hateful tories will align themselves with the backward homophobes of the dup.

Corbyn could be PM here in a coalition government......... It could hapen.

may does not even have the class to do the right thing and step down, what an arrogant wee woman she is.
You have the Tories and D.U.P. desperate for power. Of course the Tories will pull in the D.U.P.  They are on the phone already. Arlene Foster has strengthened her position. If they can manipulate the Tories they won't be too bothered about the Stormont county council

Nor should they be, the unionists/loyalists should be ashamed of themselves backing this scum Foster after her complete and utter gross neglegence/ corruption in relation to the RHI ponzi scheme, they have absolutely no moral compass, stick to the fenians and remain loyal to Lizzie and the union is all they cling to, pathetic b**tards!
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 09, 2017, 08:46:18 AM
At least we'll see the end of Teresa May.  God forbid a coalition that has the DUP in it tho.

Will never happen, not even the hateful tories will align themselves with the backward homophobes of the dup.

Corbyn could be PM here in a coalition government......... It could hapen.

may does not even have the class to do the right thing and step down, what an arrogant wee woman she is.
You have the Tories and D.U.P. desperate for power. Of course the Tories will pull in the D.U.P.  They are on the phone already. Arlene Foster has strengthened her position. If they can manipulate the Tories they won't be too bothered about the Stormont county council

Tories plus DUP won't be enough for a strong and stable Brexit means Brexit government
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Minder on June 09, 2017, 08:49:51 AM
"Theresa May facing a hard breakfast"  :D
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AQMP on June 09, 2017, 08:56:40 AM
Theresa May sought a personal mandate and increased CON vote to the highest level since 2001.

Jeremy Corbyn sought a party mandate and increased Labour vote to beat Blair's last vote.

It was back to the economy, stupid.  People voted in referendum against austere times and this has been repeated.  The UKIPers split between LAB and CON.

DUP have called out the vote and set back any notion of a border poll for many years. 46.3% Unionist  41.1% Nationalist

DUP    36.0
SF    29.4
SDLP 11.7
UUP    10.3
APNI 7.9
GRN    0.9

Biggest danger for SF is that DUP get another Assembly election from CONs and put themselves back into the driving seat.

Would agree with this, there's not going to be a border poll anytime soon so best to shut up about it and stop antagonising former UUP voters who have flocked to the DUP. Scottish independence is off the agenda, and in fact if there's a soft Brexit with the UK inside the single market and perhaps more importantly, the customs union and keeping an "invisible" border, this will suit a lot of Nationalists fine.  SF need to use the next 5 years to come up with a practical plan that shows what a UI is and how it will work.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AQMP on June 09, 2017, 09:00:44 AM
At least we'll see the end of Teresa May.  God forbid a coalition that has the DUP in it tho.

Will never happen, not even the hateful tories will align themselves with the backward homophobes of the dup.

Corbyn could be PM here in a coalition government......... It could hapen.

may does not even have the class to do the right thing and step down, what an arrogant wee woman she is.
You have the Tories and D.U.P. desperate for power. Of course the Tories will pull in the D.U.P.  They are on the phone already. Arlene Foster has strengthened her position. If they can manipulate the Tories they won't be too bothered about the Stormont county council

Tories plus DUP won't be enough for a strong and stable Brexit means Brexit government

In Kensington Labour are 30-odd votes ahead on the third recount.  It looks like the Tories will get 318, so with the DUP that will give them a working majority of 7 or 8 when you take SF out of the equation.  That may be enough to get a Queen's Speech through but is too narrow to be stable long term.  Another election within 6 -18 months.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Tony Baloney on June 09, 2017, 09:13:13 AM
DUP certain to see the Tories over the line. Some turnaround for them as Arlene was on the ropes a few months ago and will now no doubt be negotiating for a DUP position in the cabinet. Expect lots of "community funding" in East Belfast etc. over the next year.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 09, 2017, 09:14:16 AM
At least we'll see the end of Teresa May.  God forbid a coalition that has the DUP in it tho.

Will never happen, not even the hateful tories will align themselves with the backward homophobes of the dup.

Corbyn could be PM here in a coalition government......... It could hapen.

may does not even have the class to do the right thing and step down, what an arrogant wee woman she is.
You have the Tories and D.U.P. desperate for power. Of course the Tories will pull in the D.U.P.  They are on the phone already. Arlene Foster has strengthened her position. If they can manipulate the Tories they won't be too bothered about the Stormont county council

Tories plus DUP won't be enough for a strong and stable Brexit means Brexit government

In Kensington Labour are 30-odd votes ahead on the third recount.  It looks like the Tories will get 318, so with the DUP that will give them a working majority of 7 or 8 when you take SF out of the equation.  That may be enough to get a Queen's Speech through but is too narrow to be stable long term.  Another election within 6 -18 months.

The UK Government needs a majority of at least 50 for Brexit cos it is going to be very emotional.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrI1Nqs0SyY
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Applesisapples on June 09, 2017, 09:35:07 AM
Another election by the Autumn. Scottish independence gone for a generation at least. This weakens any chance of a border poll in the North. The D.U.P. c**k a hoop and lining up to support the Tories. S.F. finishing off the S.D.L.P. but not much use when D.U.P. have the ear of the Prime Minister
I don't get your logic, nationalists have rowed in behind SF, there are now only 5% between the Unionists and Nationalists with a 10% block in the middle. SF's strengthened hand will add to the calls. All this has been is a realignment within both large blocks.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: screenexile on June 09, 2017, 09:37:31 AM
Where are all the t**sers who said Sinn Fein taking their seats in Westminster didn't matter anyway??!!

DUP in a f**king Coalition Government??!!

Time for Sinn Fein to get real and think about taking their seats in Westminster lest we get tramped into the ground again. Saying a meaningless oath is much less an issue for me than letting the DUP run amok!
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Keyser soze on June 09, 2017, 09:37:35 AM
A great result on the face of it for the DUP but this will be a short sit for the likes of Dodds and Pengelly as they are both on borrowed time. The disappointing result for SF was S Belfast, where Martin had a poor result.

The next election will also likely see Sylvia Hermon overtaken by the Dup. An even split of the 18 seats is definitely on the cards in the very near future if not at the next election.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: screenexile on June 09, 2017, 09:38:50 AM
Another election by the Autumn. Scottish independence gone for a generation at least. This weakens any chance of a border poll in the North. The D.U.P. c**k a hoop and lining up to support the Tories. S.F. finishing off the S.D.L.P. but not much use when D.U.P. have the ear of the Prime Minister
I don't get your logic, nationalists have rowed in behind SF, there are now only 5% between the Unionists and Nationalists with a 10% block in the middle. SF's strengthened hand will add to the calls. All this has been is a realignment within both large blocks.

What are you SF's strengthened hand about? Do you not get that Teresa May has to go cap in hand to the DUP now and the first thing they'll say is there's no way we are having a border poll!!!
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Farrandeelin on June 09, 2017, 09:44:42 AM
A great result on the face of it for the DUP but this will be a short sit for the likes of Dodds and Pengelly as they are both on borrowed time. The disappointing result for SF was S Belfast, where Martin had a poor result.

The next election will also likely see Sylvia Hermon overtaken by the Dup. An even split of the 18 seats is definitely on the cards in the very near future if not at the next election.
Is there going to be a redrawing of some NI constituencies soon?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Avondhu star on June 09, 2017, 09:49:19 AM
Another election by the Autumn. Scottish independence gone for a generation at least. This weakens any chance of a border poll in the North. The D.U.P. c**k a hoop and lining up to support the Tories. S.F. finishing off the S.D.L.P. but not much use when D.U.P. have the ear of the Prime Minister
I don't get your logic, nationalists have rowed in behind SF, there are now only 5% between the Unionists and Nationalists with a 10% block in the middle. SF's strengthened hand will add to the calls. All this has been is a realignment within both large blocks.
D.U.P. have the stronger hand because they will align themselves with the Tories. It will be short term but they can still get a lot of commitments to services etc in The North. You can have all the calls you like but not much good if no one pays any attention. The final settlement on Brexit could yet have a big say on the future political landscape across the country.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: OgraAnDun on June 09, 2017, 09:50:31 AM
Another election by the Autumn. Scottish independence gone for a generation at least. This weakens any chance of a border poll in the North. The D.U.P. c**k a hoop and lining up to support the Tories. S.F. finishing off the S.D.L.P. but not much use when D.U.P. have the ear of the Prime Minister
I don't get your logic, nationalists have rowed in behind SF, there are now only 5% between the Unionists and Nationalists with a 10% block in the middle. SF's strengthened hand will add to the calls. All this has been is a realignment within both large blocks.

What are you SF's strengthened hand about? Do you not get that Teresa May has to go cap in hand to the DUP now and the first thing they'll say is there's no way we are having a border poll!!!

A Tory/DUP government won't last a year. And to respond to your earlier point, even if SF were to take their seats then the coalition of chaos (Tory/DUP) would still have a majority.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Rossfan on June 09, 2017, 09:52:43 AM
As a "Border poll" wouldn't at present give "us" the result we want what's the panice about it.
It will need more people to vote for Nationalist parties than Unionist ones before there's any possibility of it being called.
If the Dupes get into bed with the Mayhemites I presume there will be no new Stormont Executive ?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: T Fearon on June 09, 2017, 09:53:00 AM
Did anyone think Sinn Fein's success in rousing their tribal vote in March,wouldn't have an opposite and equal effect in terms of a similar response from the other tribe at the next election,yesterday?

There is an opportunity here for SF and DUP to take risks together given they have effectively crushed all opposition from the UUP and SDLP and don't have to look over their shoulder.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: T Fearon on June 09, 2017, 09:54:22 AM
As for the Border Poll,it will never happen,principally because of opposition from the Free State.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Avondhu star on June 09, 2017, 09:57:21 AM
As for the Border Poll,it will never happen,principally because of opposition from the Free State.

Stop showing up the inadequacy of your British education
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: haranguerer on June 09, 2017, 10:00:45 AM
Another election by the Autumn. Scottish independence gone for a generation at least. This weakens any chance of a border poll in the North. The D.U.P. c**k a hoop and lining up to support the Tories. S.F. finishing off the S.D.L.P. but not much use when D.U.P. have the ear of the Prime Minister
I don't get your logic, nationalists have rowed in behind SF, there are now only 5% between the Unionists and Nationalists with a 10% block in the middle. SF's strengthened hand will add to the calls. All this has been is a realignment within both large blocks.

What are you SF's strengthened hand about? Do you not get that Teresa May has to go cap in hand to the DUP now and the first thing they'll say is there's no way we are having a border poll!!!

You're the t**ser.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: yellowcard on June 09, 2017, 10:01:54 AM
DUP certain to see the Tories over the line. Some turnaround for them as Arlene was on the ropes a few months ago and will now no doubt be negotiating for a DUP position in the cabinet. Expect lots of "community funding" in East Belfast etc. over the next year.

Aw come on, you cannot be serious!
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: mouview on June 09, 2017, 10:03:51 AM
Not a good night for Nicola Queen of Scots, who must be hoping May falls on her letter opener to deflect attention from her own independence ambitions.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: yellowcard on June 09, 2017, 10:07:11 AM
Ironically the conservatives have been returned to Westminster by Scotland voting for Tories. So working class Scotland have kept them in power.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Declan on June 09, 2017, 10:07:26 AM
These lads hold the balance of power  :)
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: screenexile on June 09, 2017, 10:09:11 AM
DUP certain to see the Tories over the line. Some turnaround for them as Arlene was on the ropes a few months ago and will now no doubt be negotiating for a DUP position in the cabinet. Expect lots of "community funding" in East Belfast etc. over the next year.

Aw come on, you cannot be serious!

Of course they will. . . why wouldn't they the DUP have without a doubt been the party to come out on top in this election even more so than Labour. Arlene may be a **** but she's not stupid and she knows that when May comes calling she holds all the aces and can demand pretty much whatever she wants!!
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 09, 2017, 10:13:18 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/apr/24/snp-dup-democratic-unionist-party-government-tories-anti-scottish-coalition-homophobic

https://www.ft.com/content/50b12376-4c98-11e7-a3f4-c742b9791d43
Northern Ireland is another top concern. The EU would see some political risk for Brexit should the Democratic Unionist party play an important role in any coalition or minority government.
Giving Northern Ireland’s leading Unionist party a deciding say on government policy could tie the hands of Britain’s negotiator on sensitive issues over the border, as well as further raising political tensions with Republicans.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: OgraAnDun on June 09, 2017, 10:15:13 AM
DUP certain to see the Tories over the line. Some turnaround for them as Arlene was on the ropes a few months ago and will now no doubt be negotiating for a DUP position in the cabinet. Expect lots of "community funding" in East Belfast etc. over the next year.

Aw come on, you cannot be serious!

Of course they will. . . why wouldn't they the DUP have without a doubt been the party to come out on top in this election even more so than Labour. Arlene may be a **** but she's not stupid and she knows that when May comes calling she holds all the aces and can demand pretty much whatever she wants!!

According to the BBC they're not going to be in a formal coalition.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: yellowcard on June 09, 2017, 10:16:15 AM
DUP certain to see the Tories over the line. Some turnaround for them as Arlene was on the ropes a few months ago and will now no doubt be negotiating for a DUP position in the cabinet. Expect lots of "community funding" in East Belfast etc. over the next year.

Aw come on, you cannot be serious!

Of course they will. . . why wouldn't they the DUP have without a doubt been the party to come out on top in this election even more so than Labour. Arlene may be a **** but she's not stupid and she knows that when May comes calling she holds all the aces and can demand pretty much whatever she wants!!

If the DUP get a cabinet position then I am a Chinaman, no chance.

Arlene Foster might desire this but imagine the British public having an Irish 1800's conservative making cabinet decisions for middle England, come off it.

Gregory Campbell as Minister for Culture. media and Sport!!

 
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: tiempo on June 09, 2017, 10:21:04 AM
A fantastic outcome for SF who will sit in the pocket disrupting locally and pulling the institutions from pillar to post while easily connecting their republican socialist ideals with more of the electorate and those who become eligible to vote in the next 5-10 years while the DUP take this once in a lifetime opportunity in Her Majestys spotlight to no doubt make a complete b@lls of it and end up looking like the dinosaurs they are. Lest we forget also of course that the Unionist population is quite literally an ageing dinosaur and the mortality rate will also effect the numbers in the next 10 years.

SF isn't ready for a border poll at the minute

1 because they are still coming to terms with their new found strength in the 6 counties
2 they wouldn't win it currently

The strength of SF is two fold

1 its understanding that it cannot win a border poll currently and that repeatedly calling for one is only to irk the Unionists and further disrupt them and the institutions - it really is that easy
2 their grassroots movement throughout the 32 counties

The general election is also a fantastic outcome for Corbyn who is not ready to lead but will benefit enormously from a period as a strong opposition. It will also allow him to truely reform the Labour party and rid them of the remaining Balirites therefore making them a true socialist party for the future in Britain. If he has any wit he will be looking to groom a successor that is capable of performing on stage and screen while holding up the values of what the Labour party should stand for.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Avondhu star on June 09, 2017, 10:21:25 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/apr/24/snp-dup-democratic-unionist-party-government-tories-anti-scottish-coalition-homophobic

https://www.ft.com/content/50b12376-4c98-11e7-a3f4-c742b9791d43
Northern Ireland is another top concern. The EU would see some political risk for Brexit should the Democratic Unionist party play an important role in any coalition or minority government.
Giving Northern Ireland’s leading Unionist party a deciding say on government policy could tie the hands of Britain’s negotiator on sensitive issues over the border, as well as further raising political tensions with Republicans.
It might be a concern for you but across the Irish Sea not too many will be concerned about it.
We have seen all this before. Go back to time of Parnell and the Irish Party. The British parties sacked up to the Irish Party when needed but when not needed they ignored them
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Declan on June 09, 2017, 10:22:58 AM
Of note: Every single border constituency now in NI now represented by SF, as well as that little enclave of West B̶e̶r̶l̶i̶n̶ Belfast


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Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: AQMP on June 09, 2017, 10:23:51 AM
Looks like the deal has been done already.  BBC reporting that May will go to see the Queen this afternoon to tell her she can form a government
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Avondhu star on June 09, 2017, 10:24:00 AM
DUP certain to see the Tories over the line. Some turnaround for them as Arlene was on the ropes a few months ago and will now no doubt be negotiating for a DUP position in the cabinet. Expect lots of "community funding" in East Belfast etc. over the next year.

Aw come on, you cannot be serious!

Of course they will. . . why wouldn't they the DUP have without a doubt been the party to come out on top in this election even more so than Labour. Arlene may be a **** but she's not stupid and she knows that when May comes calling she holds all the aces and can demand pretty much whatever she wants!!

If the DUP get a cabinet position then I am a Chinaman, no chance.

Arlene Foster might desire this but imagine the British public having an Irish 1800's conservative making cabinet decisions for middle England, come off it.

Gregory Campbell as Minister for Culture. media and Sport!!

Hello Mr. Wong. Velly nice to meet you.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Avondhu star on June 09, 2017, 10:27:24 AM
Of note: Every single border constituency now in NI now represented by SF, as well as that little enclave of West B̶e̶r̶l̶i̶n̶ Belfast


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Would that have been the map the Boundary Commission should have come up with after the Treaty?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: OgraAnDun on June 09, 2017, 10:28:48 AM
Looks like the deal has been done already.  BBC reporting that May will go to see the Queen this afternoon to tell her she can form a government


A minority government with the DUP helping them on key votes.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 09, 2017, 10:37:43 AM
Hopefully the DUP get torn to shreds but the sitting MP's in opposition, surely even Tory backbenchers won't back this? Most of the Tory voters won't have a scobby do who the DUP are and their background...

This will backfire hopefully, the reactions of a desperate leader will make her look more foolish when it collapses
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: yellowcard on June 09, 2017, 10:38:16 AM
Logically, May should be toast now. However in the absence of any credible alternative leaders within the Tories, and with Brexit negotiations due to commence very shortly, she may just bungle on for a little while longer. Her hand is now severely weakened though when it comes to negotiating a deal with the EU.

She has lost all credibility and will face huge pressure from both inside and outside her party. Even the right wing media may start questioning her suitability for the job.
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Avondhu star on June 09, 2017, 10:39:51 AM
Hopefully the DUP get torn to shreds but the sitting MP's in opposition, surely even Tory backbenchers won't back this? Most of the Tory voters won't have a scobby do who the DUP are and their background...

This will backfire hopefully, the reactions of a desperate leader will make her look more foolish when it collapses
Is it possible that she can look more foolish?
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Avondhu star on June 09, 2017, 10:41:20 AM
Dramatic development!
Nuttall has resigned as leader of U.K.I.P.!
What a loss to politics!
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: seafoid on June 09, 2017, 10:41:56 AM
.@OwenJones84 on @Radio5live "the dup are the political wing of the 17th century"
Title: Re: UK General Election 2017
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 09, 2017, 10:43:39 AM
Hopefully the DUP get torn to shreds but the sitting MP's in opposition, surely even Tory backbenchers won't back this? Most of the Tory voters won't have a scobby do w