Ulster Club IFC/JFC 2023

[Dreadnought]

It's not as far away as the griping above would make you believe.

There won't be a perfect system. There won't even be a close to perfect system. You can't stop stars aligning.

Three simple measures should be easy to implement across the board:

1. When a club wins its county's IFC or JFC, for the subsequent season, they must play at a higher championship level. This stipulation supersedes all localised competition rules.

2. If a club's senior league position at the end of any season, ranks them in 10th place or higher, then they must compete in their county's SFC the following season. This stipulation supersedes all localised competition rules.

3. If a club's senior league position at the end of any season, ranks them in 20th place or higher, then they cannot play in their county's JFC the following season. This stipulation supersedes all localised competition rules.


No. 1 is a no-brainer.

Nos. 2 and 3 could run into logistics issues in smaller counties, but in those cases the ranges could be adapted accordingly.

I know I know I know that in some in counties they don't take league football seriously. But you know what? There's clubs everywhere forking out a fortune for management teams and toys all year round. The least they could do in return is try harder in league football.

Good points but some counties obviously have more clubs. The issue I have with Cavan is they actually have 3 divisions , same as Tyrone and Monaghan.

How any Cavan man can come here and argue that it's totally fine their 3 representatives this year playing div 1 football had no bearing on the championship is talking through their hoop.

How any man can come here and argue that it's totally fine for a team who lost an intermediate relegation in 2021 and a Junior final last year is good enough for Senior based solely on league is talking through their hoop.

[Dreadnought]

I'm alm

I can tell you I spoke to 3 lads at lunch there, from Sligo, Galway and Mayo. Their league and championship totally seperate too. Bar the couple on northern counties I haven't come across any that are linked

Meath are the same

I'm almost certain it was a Croke Park directive that resulted in the unlinking of league and championship in Galway football anyway.
Around 2011 if memory serves.

That's totally fine with the volume of clubs in your county. It evens out over the 5/6/divisions.

Big when you have 3 divisions, 3 championships..

But not linked for numerous reasons. Please try and grasp that

[general_lee]

It's not as far away as the griping above would make you believe.

There won't be a perfect system. There won't even be a close to perfect system. You can't stop stars aligning.

Three simple measures should be easy to implement across the board:

1. When a club wins its county's IFC or JFC, for the subsequent season, they must play at a higher championship level. This stipulation supersedes all localised competition rules.

2. If a club's senior league position at the end of any season, ranks them in 10th place or higher, then they must compete in their county's SFC the following season. This stipulation supersedes all localised competition rules.

3. If a club's senior league position at the end of any season, ranks them in 20th place or higher, then they cannot play in their county's JFC the following season. This stipulation supersedes all localised competition rules.


No. 1 is a no-brainer.

Nos. 2 and 3 could run into logistics issues in smaller counties, but in those cases the ranges could be adapted accordingly.

I know I know I know that in some in counties they don't take league football seriously. But you know what? There's clubs everywhere forking out a fortune for management teams and toys all year round. The least they could do in return is try harder in league football.

The voice of reason.

I don't care how "seriously" clubs may or may not take their league fixtures. I refuse to believe a club that can compete with Division 1 clubs (on any level, regardless of no. of absent county players) can still be considered a junior club. It's ridiculous.

[intheknowhow]

I'm alm

I can tell you I spoke to 3 lads at lunch there, from Sligo, Galway and Mayo. Their league and championship totally seperate too. Bar the couple on northern counties I haven't come across any that are linked

Meath are the same

I'm almost certain it was a Croke Park directive that resulted in the unlinking of league and championship in Galway football anyway.
Around 2011 if memory serves.

That's totally fine with the volume of clubs in your county. It evens out over the 5/6/divisions.

Big when you have 3 divisions, 3 championships..

But not linked for numerous reasons. Please try and grasp that

So this year you considered Arva a junior club? Do you hear yourself?

[Dreadnought]

It's not as far away as the griping above would make you believe.

There won't be a perfect system. There won't even be a close to perfect system. You can't stop stars aligning.

Three simple measures should be easy to implement across the board:

1. When a club wins its county's IFC or JFC, for the subsequent season, they must play at a higher championship level. This stipulation supersedes all localised competition rules.

2. If a club's senior league position at the end of any season, ranks them in 10th place or higher, then they must compete in their county's SFC the following season. This stipulation supersedes all localised competition rules.

3. If a club's senior league position at the end of any season, ranks them in 20th place or higher, then they cannot play in their county's JFC the following season. This stipulation supersedes all localised competition rules.


No. 1 is a no-brainer.

Nos. 2 and 3 could run into logistics issues in smaller counties, but in those cases the ranges could be adapted accordingly.

I know I know I know that in some in counties they don't take league football seriously. But you know what? There's clubs everywhere forking out a fortune for management teams and toys all year round. The least they could do in return is try harder in league football.

The voice of reason.

I don't care how "seriously" clubs may or may not take their league fixtures. I refuse to believe a club that can compete with Division 1 clubs (on any level, regardless of no. of absent county players) can still be considered a junior club. It's ridiculous.

No doubt that's a good proposal (with tweaks needed per county) if we are to blanket link leagues and Championship in every county. Which doesn't happen in the majority of counties. (sidenote: since when have we decided that linking is best way? Is it best and why? Or are proponents of it simply saying so as their county has it and it suits them to say so?)

But the salient point is not to go retrospective. The system is what it is in other counties, and we can't apply standards from some counties to others who have a different setup and planned their year based on that. For instance, if we did turn around this summer after League and say actually where you finished determines Championship, there would have been uproar when a clearly Senior team like killgarry would be intermediate. So no, we cannot say it is ridiculous. The clubs sent by the county to provincial level as winners are where they were based on results there. You cannot apply different standards for other counties leagues when it wasn't done there or the year planned out for it. You simply can't do that retroactively. So you will ahve to accept that based on results, the intermediate and junior champions were of that level. And will go up a level next year

[Dreadnought]

I'm alm

I can tell you I spoke to 3 lads at lunch there, from Sligo, Galway and Mayo. Their league and championship totally seperate too. Bar the couple on northern counties I haven't come across any that are linked

Meath are the same

I'm almost certain it was a Croke Park directive that resulted in the unlinking of league and championship in Galway football anyway.
Around 2011 if memory serves.

That's totally fine with the volume of clubs in your county. It evens out over the 5/6/divisions.

Big when you have 3 divisions, 3 championships..

But not linked for numerous reasons. Please try and grasp that

So this year you considered Arva a junior club? Do you hear yourself?

Yes. Got relegated from intermediate in 2021, and lost a Junior final last year. Any way you look at it, their Championship form shows they were a Junior club this year. You're trying to base an unlinked League where they finished bottom. Are you hearing yourself?

[intheknowhow]

I'm alm

I can tell you I spoke to 3 lads at lunch there, from Sligo, Galway and Mayo. Their league and championship totally seperate too. Bar the couple on northern counties I haven't come across any that are linked

Meath are the same

I'm almost certain it was a Croke Park directive that resulted in the unlinking of league and championship in Galway football anyway.
Around 2011 if memory serves.

That's totally fine with the volume of clubs in your county. It evens out over the 5/6/divisions.

Big when you have 3 divisions, 3 championships..

But not linked for numerous reasons. Please try and grasp that

So this year you considered Arva a junior club? Do you hear yourself?

Yes. Got relegated from intermediate in 2021, and lost a Junior final last year. Any way you look at it, their Championship form shows they were a Junior club this year. You're trying to base an unlinked League where they finished bottom. Are you hearing yourself?

You a deluded individual if you're calling Arva a junior team this year end of. As the poster above states it's ridiculous.. a gaa man can not accept that Arva competed in the top division of Cavan football and can not admit they played senior league football.

[Westside]

It's not as far away as the griping above would make you believe.

There won't be a perfect system. There won't even be a close to perfect system. You can't stop stars aligning.

Three simple measures should be easy to implement across the board:

1. When a club wins its county's IFC or JFC, for the subsequent season, they must play at a higher championship level. This stipulation supersedes all localised competition rules.

2. If a club's senior league position at the end of any season, ranks them in 10th place or higher, then they must compete in their county's SFC the following season. This stipulation supersedes all localised competition rules.

3. If a club's senior league position at the end of any season, ranks them in 20th place or higher, then they cannot play in their county's JFC the following season. This stipulation supersedes all localised competition rules.


No. 1 is a no-brainer.

Nos. 2 and 3 could run into logistics issues in smaller counties, but in those cases the ranges could be adapted accordingly.

I know I know I know that in some in counties they don't take league football seriously. But you know what? There's clubs everywhere forking out a fortune for management teams and toys all year round. The least they could do in return is try harder in league football.

The voice of reason.

I don't care how "seriously" clubs may or may not take their league fixtures. I refuse to believe a club that can compete with Division 1 clubs (on any level, regardless of no. of absent county players) can still be considered a junior club. It's ridiculous.

Arva are a Junior Championship side. It's not a case of some form of consideration. They have been a Junior side since the commencement of the 2022 Junior Championship.

If Arva were a Senior Championship side by virtue of winning Division 2 league which had no county players involved and surviving by winning a one off game despite being bottom of the league, that would be ridiculous.

[Dreadnought]

I'm alm

I can tell you I spoke to 3 lads at lunch there, from Sligo, Galway and Mayo. Their league and championship totally seperate too. Bar the couple on northern counties I haven't come across any that are linked

Meath are the same

I'm almost certain it was a Croke Park directive that resulted in the unlinking of league and championship in Galway football anyway.
Around 2011 if memory serves.

That's totally fine with the volume of clubs in your county. It evens out over the 5/6/divisions.

Big when you have 3 divisions, 3 championships..

But not linked for numerous reasons. Please try and grasp that

So this year you considered Arva a junior club? Do you hear yourself?

Yes. Got relegated from intermediate in 2021, and lost a Junior final last year. Any way you look at it, their Championship form shows they were a Junior club this year. You're trying to base an unlinked League where they finished bottom. Are you hearing yourself?

You a deluded individual if you're calling Arva a junior team this year end of. As the poster above states it's ridiculous.. a gaa man can not accept that Arva competed in the top division of Cavan football and can not admit they played senior league football.

Not deluded. If you cannot grasp simple concepts such as League not being linked, and Arva being a Junior team on their past Championship form, then I don't know what to tell you. Cry more. Some amount of moaning about a team who rightfully were Junior. You just have to accept it and not apply settings from others when they clearly deserved their placing there after getting relegated to Junior.

Would it not be ridiculous to change qualification status after the fact? Would that be fine or ridiculous in your eyes?

[Armagh18]

Massive win for Cullyhanna today v Liatroim. Sad to see Armagh abusing the system and senior team playing intermediate but thats what Cavan Club teams are up against.

I for one will be supporting Ballyhaise the underdog in the final.

Cullyhanna were the 18th placed team in the Armagh league structures this season. No cooking the books in Armagh, unlike Cavan.

Do you think if every club in Armagh are at full strength that they're the 18th best team in the county? Personally, I don't. They would push, and probably beat, teams such as Mullabawn, Dromintee, Silverbridge. The fact they're in intermediate due to a poor league performance in 2022, when they were short of their best players, shows why league and championship shouldn't be linked in my view.

Good luck to Cullyhanna in the final, it would be great to see them get a crack at an all Ireland.

At full strength they're a similar standard of about 10 teams in Armagh who'd all beat each other on any given day. They were short their best players for near 15 years and stayed senior that entire time. They'd a few extra men unavailable for one reason or another last year and got relegated. Not like any eyebrows were raised, they then lost 4 times in the 3rd tier of the leagues this year which IMO shows that was their level.

In fairness they suffered most of their league defeats with the 3 county men away. They turned into a different team after Armagh were knocked out this summer; at intermediate level the county players make such a difference - as you would hope / expect.

They lost to Culloville towards end of league with their county contingent and they lost their last league game against St Pauls with them also when they had a chance to still win the league.  Culloville beat them twice and where deserving league winners.

Culloville were a serious outfit in intermediate. Think they had a few key players injured for the championship, I fancied them to run Cullyhanna close, I'd say they would have only for injuries.

[Ethan Tremblay]

I understand what is being said about Avra, and the league and championship being separate, it just seems a bit abstract that a senior league team is playing the lowest championship tier.  Intermediate wouldn't be as big a shock. 

Regarding Cullyhanna, they had been slowly regressing for a while this past 10 years and wouldn't have been competing consistently for senior honors.  A bad year last year doomed them to intermediate, but it was always a threat of happening. 

I think they will fair grand back in the senior league, but don't be fooled into thinking they are going to be swinging at the top 3/4 teams next year either. 

[intheknowhow]

I understand what is being said about Avra, and the league and championship being separate, it just seems a bit abstract that a senior league team is playing the lowest championship tier.  Intermediate wouldn't be as big a shock. 

Regarding Cullyhanna, they had been slowly regressing for a while this past 10 years and wouldn't have been competing consistently for senior honors.  A bad year last year doomed them to intermediate, but it was always a threat of happening. 

I think they will fair grand back in the senior league, but don't be fooled into thinking they are going to be swinging at the top 3/4 teams next year either. 

100% but the Cavan folk don't want to hear...

[Westside]

I understand what is being said about Avra, and the league and championship being separate, it just seems a bit abstract that a senior league team is playing the lowest championship tier.  Intermediate wouldn't be as big a shock. 

Regarding Cullyhanna, they had been slowly regressing for a while this past 10 years and wouldn't have been competing consistently for senior honors.  A bad year last year doomed them to intermediate, but it was always a threat of happening. 

I think they will fair grand back in the senior league, but don't be fooled into thinking they are going to be swinging at the top 3/4 teams next year either. 

There's nothing abstract about it. They got relegated to junior in 2021. They couldn't win it last year. They did win it this year.

To move championship grades in Cavan you need to win the grade you are in, or lose a relegation playoff in that grade. It's not complicated.

[general_lee]

b]It's not complicated[/b].

It's not, but it is stupid. All three of your championship winners played in Division 1.

[intheknowhow]

b]It's not complicated[/b].

It's not, but it is stupid. All three of your championship winners played in Division 1.

"Hai but days how we do things here in cyyyyyavan"