Ulster Club IFC/JFC 2023

[Dreadnought]

Not sure what the outrage is about Arva. They are where they are for a reason. If some counties want to link things in all manner of ways, then let them at it. In Cavan, Championship is rewarded with Championship and you move up or down by your standard in Championship not League. We simply don't reward Championship from the League. Before we did a few seasons of clubs applying to be upgraded and some clubs had a good generational team that never won a Championship that their standard deserved after they were upgraded.

The simple facts are that Arva have some good players now, but they were relegated down for reasons in prior years. They weren't good enough for Senior, weren't good enough for intermediate. They were in Junior grade, and even last year did not show enough to be the 27th best team out of 40 in Cavan. The fact that they've built up players, got some back from injury, got their act together this year and so on is not their fault. They likely are a good Cavan intermediate level team now, but failed to get up there last year. And that happens. They've gotten good very quickly which can happen, suck it up and deal with it. It'll right itself as anything will

[LeoMc]

For Counties that do not link league and championship, how do teams get relegated to a lower championship?

I can understand league positions but if 50% of your clubs get beat in the first round how do you determine which one gets replaced by the winner of the lower grade?

[InnocentByStander]

Division 1 teams should not be playing junior simple as

[Dreadnought]

Division 1 teams should not be playing junior simple as

But what if they got relegated to Junior based on Championship results? There's an obsession with League here, but facts are they weren't good enough in successive Championships, and a combination of factors with injured and returning players caused this. But it's an anomaly. This isn't the usual, just the way it fell for this particular club. They deserved to be a Junior club last 2 years and won't be next year

[mrdeeds]

For Counties that do not link league and championship, how do teams get relegated to a lower championship?

I can understand league positions but if 50% of your clubs get beat in the first round how do you determine which one gets replaced by the winner of the lower grade?

In Cavan there's relegation playoffs.

[Dreadnought]

For Counties that do not link league and championship, how do teams get relegated to a lower championship?

I can understand league positions but if 50% of your clubs get beat in the first round how do you determine which one gets replaced by the winner of the lower grade?

Relegation playoffs which happen while the quarter finals etc of that Championship are ongoing. And in 2021 Arva were poor enough to lose both they were in to go down to Junior. They won 1 out of 4 group games, then lost the relegation playoff.

Cavan has a system where each grade has a table of 12 to 14 teams, open draw where each team plays 4 games (but no repeat pairings) and then base the table off that. Top 8 into quarters (1 v 8, 2 v 7 etc) and then bottom 4 into relegation, 11th v 14th, 12th v 13th and so on. See link here:

Cavan Intermediate Championship 2021

[InnocentByStander]

Division 1 teams should not be playing junior simple as

But what if they got relegated to Junior based on Championship results? There's an obsession with League here, but facts are they weren't good enough in successive Championships, and a combination of factors with injured and returning players caused this. But it's an anomaly. This isn't the usual, just the way it fell for this particular club. They deserved to be a Junior club last 2 years and won't be next year

Were they put down or relegated? There are teams in all counties where teams who arnt good enough for their championship but too strong for the one below. If a team is good enough to stay in Div 1 with senior teams it is evident they are too strong for junior and it isn't fair on proper junior teams.

[Dreadnought]

Division 1 teams should not be playing junior simple as

But what if they got relegated to Junior based on Championship results? There's an obsession with League here, but facts are they weren't good enough in successive Championships, and a combination of factors with injured and returning players caused this. But it's an anomaly. This isn't the usual, just the way it fell for this particular club. They deserved to be a Junior club last 2 years and won't be next year

Were they put down or relegated? There are teams in all counties where teams who arnt good enough for their championship but too strong for the one below. If a team is good enough to stay in Div 1 with senior teams it is evident they are too strong for junior and it isn't fair on proper junior teams.

Relegated. They lost a Senior relegation playoff in 2017, then an Intermediate one in 2021.

I agree to a point. They clearly were not good enough in 2021 when relegated to Junior. But 2 factors to consider. They would have been favourites for Junior as it was in 2022 (don't most relegated teams tend to be stronger than what is down there?) but then they got players back from injury, travelling, and some went into the county setup so they got benefit there. Like I said above, this is anomalous. A perfect storm. It meant that this year they were very strong, especially after losing the final last year and learning from that. They barely stayed up in Division 1. They are an intermediate level team based on results this year, and that's where they will be next year. But that does not mean they did not deserve to be Junior this year. Again, Championship determines Championship here

[NormPeterson]

Ballymaguigan are traditionally an Intermediate club, they even own the cup used for the Intermediate championship. Either Ballymaguigan have declined over the past decade or the Derry Intermediate championship has become much more competitive. I think both things are true, the 2001 Intermediate final was Ballymaguigan v Moneymore and nowadays both clubs would be unlikely to win the intermediate. They got to the Intermediate final in 2018 but they lost a few players since then and the best player in that team transferred back to Magherafelt.

An interesting point about Ballymaguigan is that one of their best players is 43 and he is playing along side some of the children of his primary school class mates.

[general_lee]

Division 1 teams should not be playing junior simple as

But what if they got relegated to Junior based on Championship results? There's an obsession with League here, but facts are they weren't good enough in successive Championships, and a combination of factors with injured and returning players caused this. But it's an anomaly. This isn't the usual, just the way it fell for this particular club. They deserved to be a Junior club last 2 years and won't be next year

League form gives a better indication of a clubs ability. If it works in Cavan then fair enough but at a provincial level, any club playing Division 1 senior football should be barred from playing in the provincial Junior Championship.

[Armagh18]

I know in Armagh years ago you would have had the odd weaker division one club play intermediate championship etc but none that would have been out of place

[marty34]

Division 1 teams should not be playing junior simple as

But what if they got relegated to Junior based on Championship results? There's an obsession with League here, but facts are they weren't good enough in successive Championships, and a combination of factors with injured and returning players caused this. But it's an anomaly. This isn't the usual, just the way it fell for this particular club. They deserved to be a Junior club last 2 years and won't be next year

Were they put down or relegated? There are teams in all counties where teams who arnt good enough for their championship but too strong for the one below. If a team is good enough to stay in Div 1 with senior teams it is evident they are too strong for junior and it isn't fair on proper junior teams.

Correct.

A bit of a joke that a team in Div. 1 league, play in Junior Championship.

If there're good enough to play in Div. 1, they should play in senior championship.

Imagine Kerry looking to play in Tailteann Cup.

[Westside]

Division 1 teams should not be playing junior simple as

But what if they got relegated to Junior based on Championship results? There's an obsession with League here, but facts are they weren't good enough in successive Championships, and a combination of factors with injured and returning players caused this. But it's an anomaly. This isn't the usual, just the way it fell for this particular club. They deserved to be a Junior club last 2 years and won't be next year

Were they put down or relegated? There are teams in all counties where teams who arnt good enough for their championship but too strong for the one below. If a team is good enough to stay in Div 1 with senior teams it is evident they are too strong for junior and it isn't fair on proper junior teams.

Correct.

A bit of a joke that a team in Div. 1 league, play in Junior Championship.

If there're good enough to play in Div. 1, they should play in senior championship.

Imagine Kerry looking to play in Tailteann Cup.

That's not how it works in Cavan. You earn or lose your championship status through championship football. League has nothing to do with it. They wouldn't be near Senior Championship level, couldn't win the Junior Championship last year.

Arva won a relegation playoff to stay in Div 1. They're a small club whose tradition would be Junior and Intermediate football, currently working off golden generation.

[Dreadnought]

Division 1 teams should not be playing junior simple as

But what if they got relegated to Junior based on Championship results? There's an obsession with League here, but facts are they weren't good enough in successive Championships, and a combination of factors with injured and returning players caused this. But it's an anomaly. This isn't the usual, just the way it fell for this particular club. They deserved to be a Junior club last 2 years and won't be next year

League form gives a better indication of a clubs ability. If it works in Cavan then fair enough but at a provincial level, any club playing Division 1 senior football should be barred from playing in the provincial Junior Championship.

Does it? I mean, like their Championship form has been a better indication. They got relegated from Intermediate in 2021 winning 1 game from 5, and failed to get out of Junior last year. But you'd have them in Senior? So you'd have them whipping boys of Senior, possibly demoralising a small club, and denying the the Junior title their level deserved? Yous have this all wrong. They're not good enough for Senior as they've shown. They might give Intermediate a rattle next year, but surviving in Division 1 on a playoff is hardly an indicator of Championship ability here.

[Wildweasel74]

We see what way Ballinderry cut it next year playing Senior football and Intermediate championship, I think they badly lopside many a team next year, young team or not.