More Dissident-Republican Activity

[glens abu]

Hmmmm surprised there aren't a few more on here lambasting James McClean as a bigot for refusing to wear his Poppy at the weekend.

The British have been heavily involved in the Peace Process and they stopped those horrible Germans from taking over the world surely McClean should have extended the 'hand of friendship' to our British brothers seeing as he lives there and plays in their football league!!!

James McClean tweeted"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter"MLK.Well done James very proud of you.

1. James McClean doesn't have a Twitter account anymore so you just made that up.

2. You haven't answered my question. If the Black family are bigots for not accepting McGuinness' "hand of friendship" then how is McClean not also a bigot for shunning the Poppy appeal?

Don't get me wrong I actually think McClean was right but why should the Black family be castigated for making a similar decision?!

Not going to rehearse the Black argument again,but McClean comes from a city that had many of its population murdered by British Army so can understand why he doesn't want to show his support for them,it would be like asking the people of Liverpool to wear a badge supporting the West Midlands police.

The Black family come from a community that had many murdered by the IRA. . . why then would you expect them to let a self confessed IRA member attend a family funeral!

No 1 The IRA are not still killing people the British Army are.

No 2 MMG elected MP and DFM was offering to go and pay his respects at a funeral ,not asking them to wear an Easter Lily.

No 3 James Mcclean plays football for Sunderland and is not in a bigoted organisation like the Orange Order.

Your post reminds me of gregory campbell on question time one year. When asked if the british army should apologise for bloody sunday he responded that they shouldn't because the ira doesn't.

How he equated the two first of all was astounding and second of all it was astounding he wasn't taken to town on it.

I agree with what mclean did but your point 1 there is ridiculous and nothing to do with anything on this topic.

The orange order is engrained in a lot of people's culture/ upbringing. I have no doubt that it is a very bigoted organisation however i do not believe everyone in it is bigoted. It's a big generalisation to jump too that evryone in it is bigoted.

Read the posts before making a comment,it wasnt me who tried to equate the two it was your friend screenexile,I was saying there was no comparison.

[Applesisapples]

also have heard back about Mr Black from a couple of sources on different sides.
He's not have wanted McGuinness or any other SF or nationalist politician at his funeral apparantly.

Well it's clear that the family didn't want any SF reps at the funeral. But the SDLP and an Irish Government Minister attended.

The SDLP and Irish Government will turn up at any event that gets them a bit of publicity.

[LeoMc]

also have heard back about Mr Black from a couple of sources on different sides.
He's not have wanted McGuinness or any other SF or nationalist politician at his funeral apparantly.

Well it's clear that the family didn't want any SF reps at the funeral. But the SDLP and an Irish Government Minister attended.

The SDLP and Irish Government will turn up at any event that gets them a bit of publicity.

I think the point is that the Black family weren't against Catholics at the funeral, only representatives of SF.

[imtommygunn]

No 1 The IRA are not still killing people the British Army are.

No 2 MMG elected MP and DFM was offering to go and pay his respects at a funeral ,not asking them to wear an Easter Lily.

No 3 James Mcclean plays football for Sunderland and is not in a bigoted organisation like the Orange Order.

That's the post I read.

[glens abu]

No 1 The IRA are not still killing people the British Army are.

No 2 MMG elected MP and DFM was offering to go and pay his respects at a funeral ,not asking them to wear an Easter Lily.

No 3 James Mcclean plays football for Sunderland and is not in a bigoted organisation like the Orange Order.

That's the post I read.

Yeah but I was explaing to screenexile that it was different from the Black case not saying they were the same,so I was not equating the two which you accused me of.

[Gaaboardmod3]

I seriously don't know where to start with this one. Sometimes this board depresses me. Most of the comments are old now, so I'll just do a bit of tidy up in case anyone might stumble on this in future, but please lads, at least have some common decency when discussing topics like this, and if you feel that someone has acted incorrectly at least be mindful of circumstance before you go labelling people as bigots.

We encourage debate on this forum, and moderate lightly enough, so please don't head down this path.

[imtommygunn]

No 1 The IRA are not still killing people the British Army are.

No 2 MMG elected MP and DFM was offering to go and pay his respects at a funeral ,not asking them to wear an Easter Lily.

No 3 James Mcclean plays football for Sunderland and is not in a bigoted organisation like the Orange Order.

That's the post I read.

Yeah but I was explaing to screenexile that it was different from the Black case not saying they were the same,so I was not equating the two which you accused me of.

Well then I don't understand point 1. What has that got to do with anything?

[glens abu]

No 1 The IRA are not still killing people the British Army are.

No 2 MMG elected MP and DFM was offering to go and pay his respects at a funeral ,not asking them to wear an Easter Lily.

No 3 James Mcclean plays football for Sunderland and is not in a bigoted organisation like the Orange Order.

That's the post I read.

Yeah but I was explaing to screenexile that it was different from the Black case not saying they were the same,so I was not equating the two which you accused me of.

Well then I don't understand point 1. What has that got to do with anything?

James McClean refused to wear a poppy,the funding goes towards injured members of BA a group of people still killing.The IRA who screenexile was equating with the BA have gone away a few years now.Hope this helps you understand.

[imtommygunn]

No 1 The IRA are not still killing people the British Army are.

No 2 MMG elected MP and DFM was offering to go and pay his respects at a funeral ,not asking them to wear an Easter Lily.

No 3 James Mcclean plays football for Sunderland and is not in a bigoted organisation like the Orange Order.

That's the post I read.

Yeah but I was explaing to screenexile that it was different from the Black case not saying they were the same,so I was not equating the two which you accused me of.

Well then I don't understand point 1. What has that got to do with anything?

James McClean refused to wear a poppy,the funding goes towards injured members of BA a group of people still killing.The IRA who screenexile was equating with the BA have gone away a few years now.Hope this helps you understand.

I must have missed where he said that. So you differentiate the IRA and the BA because one is still killing and one isn't. Interesting.

[camanchero]

A comparison with a religion is incorrect here.
No one is stating that COI or Anglican etc religions are inherently
Flawed or bigoted etc so being a member from birth is of no consequence ( I'm sure Presbos or the continuity Presbos are too but sometimes you'd wonder! ).

It's organizations that you 'join' and become a member of that I question.
If you decide to join the oo, KKK , IRA etc - you surely must know the ethos , or soon learn about it and agree with it if you stay a member?
If you don't agree with the ethos and remain a member then you are lying to that org and are still supporting their inhumane desires by being a member and not speaking out against them!
??

You say it's incorrect and then go on to draw comparisons to terrorist organisations, interesting....

I abhore what the OO stand for however to label everyone in it as bad people or bigots or whatever is a bit much in my view. Yes I would have no doubt that a lot are but is everyone in it?

The OO is not a good organisation however I think it's reputation has mushroomed a little into being something more than it is.

a comparison with Catholic church was made - it was comparing apples and oranges.
a more accurate comparison of the oo was with KKK - or IRA even.

if a member of the oo does not know what they belong to and what kind of organisation it is, then the person is either under the age of 10 or mentally challenged. Otherwise they know full well and are 'supporters' of that organisation - whether active or passive.

I think the same argument can be made for the KKK and IRA and any other organisations along those lines...
simple really..
anyhow, the black family are oo supporters. it doesnt take away from the fact that mr black was killed. that was wrong. in their grief they didnt want to reach out to the republican side that also condemned the killing. that was their right. it shows that they still dont want/trust/like republicans despite all the 'progress' that has seemingly been made.
It is obvious that behind the facade the same preconceptions of the older generation (if not all generations) still exist and despite conceeding powersharing , unionism will not fully engage until the eventual reunification.
only after this will unionists (and loyalists as they are all part of the same group) will start to see that reunification will not have an adverse effect on them - apart from being on a reuified Ireland.
they can still call themselves 'british' - in he same way that the pod of English folk near Skibbereen in west Cork do. Theres no problem there either!

[glens abu]

No 1 The IRA are not still killing people the British Army are.

No 2 MMG elected MP and DFM was offering to go and pay his respects at a funeral ,not asking them to wear an Easter Lily.

No 3 James Mcclean plays football for Sunderland and is not in a bigoted organisation like the Orange Order.

That's the post I read.

Yeah but I was explaing to screenexile that it was different from the Black case not saying they were the same,so I was not equating the two which you accused me of.

Well then I don't understand point 1. What has that got to do with anything?

James McClean refused to wear a poppy,the funding goes towards injured members of BA a group of people still killing.The IRA who screenexile was equating with the BA have gone away a few years now.Hope this helps you understand.

I must have missed where he said that. So you differentiate the IRA and the BA because one is still killing and one isn't. Interesting.

No your taking it out of context,as I said you should try and read all the thread before jumping to conclusions.Not good to comment on something when you have missed bits.

[screenexile]

No 1 The IRA are not still killing people the British Army are.

No 2 MMG elected MP and DFM was offering to go and pay his respects at a funeral ,not asking them to wear an Easter Lily.

No 3 James Mcclean plays football for Sunderland and is not in a bigoted organisation like the Orange Order.

That's the post I read.

Yeah but I was explaing to screenexile that it was different from the Black case not saying they were the same,so I was not equating the two which you accused me of.

Well then I don't understand point 1. What has that got to do with anything?

James McClean refused to wear a poppy,the funding goes towards injured members of BA a group of people still killing.The IRA who screenexile was equating with the BA have gone away a few years now.Hope this helps you understand.

I must have missed where he said that. So you differentiate the IRA and the BA because one is still killing and one isn't. Interesting.

No your taking it out of context,as I said you should try and read all the thread before jumping to conclusions.Not good to comment on something when you have missed bits.

Surely the British Army you are referring to have gone away to an extent as well. When was the last killing in Ireland by the British Army?

[glens abu]

No 1 The IRA are not still killing people the British Army are.

No 2 MMG elected MP and DFM was offering to go and pay his respects at a funeral ,not asking them to wear an Easter Lily.

No 3 James Mcclean plays football for Sunderland and is not in a bigoted organisation like the Orange Order.

That's the post I read.

Yeah but I was explaing to screenexile that it was different from the Black case not saying they were the same,so I was not equating the two which you accused me of.

Well then I don't understand point 1. What has that got to do with anything?

James McClean refused to wear a poppy,the funding goes towards injured members of BA a group of people still killing.The IRA who screenexile was equating with the BA have gone away a few years now.Hope this helps you understand.

I must have missed where he said that. So you differentiate the IRA and the BA because one is still killing and one isn't. Interesting.

No your taking it out of context,as I said you should try and read all the thread before jumping to conclusions.Not good to comment on something when you have missed bits.

Surely the British Army you are referring to have gone away to an extent as well. When was the last killing in Ireland by the British Army?

Think people are more concerned at present with their killings in Iraq and Afghanistan

[screenexile]

OK. Instead of whataboutery and conjecture I'm going to put it as plainly as I can for you glensabu

1. James McClean was perfectly entitled to not wear his poppy and the current outrage by the establishment in the UK is wrong.

2. The Black family are EQUALLY entitled not to want a convicted IRA member to attend the funeral of their Father. None of us know him or the family so to assume they are bigots is just ignorance, just as those who are slagging off McClean are equally ignorant.

Lynchbhoy I think the OO is an organisation with a lot of flaws. One thing they are not flawed in is recruitment and community. I know strictly they are not like the Catholic Church but I think if you're born into a protestant family you'll be attending marches and having your picture taken with your Dad wearing his sash etc. from a very young age.

Likewise I think a number of these people grow up to realise the harm the OO do to Catholic communities and would not want to be seen the way they are by a lot of people. Surely there are people in the organisation trying to reform it and it would be unfair of us to label every single one of them a bigot.

[glens abu]

OK. Instead of whataboutery and conjecture I'm going to put it as plainly as I can for you glensabu

1. James McClean was perfectly entitled to not wear his poppy and the current outrage by the establishment in the UK is wrong.

2. The Black family are EQUALLY entitled not to want a convicted IRA member to attend the funeral of their Father. None of us know him or the family so to assume they are bigots is just ignorance, just as those who are slagging off McClean are equally ignorant.

Lynchbhoy I think the OO is an organisation with a lot of flaws. One thing they are not flawed in is recruitment and community. I know strictly they are not like the Catholic Church but I think if you're born into a protestant family you'll be attending marches and having your picture taken with your Dad wearing his sash etc. from a very young age.

Likewise I think a number of these people grow up to realise the harm the OO do to Catholic communities and would not want to be seen the way they are by a lot of people. Surely there are people in the organisation trying to reform it and it would be unfair of us to label every single one of them a bigot.

You lost the arguement regarding what you accused me off and now going over old ground about the Blacks.Did you not see you are not allowed to mention bigots anymore so think you should just let it drop.