Should Leo stand down until investigation complete?

[macker15]

https://mobile.twitter.com/caulmick/status/1371527921815404546

[macker15]

https://mobile.twitter.com/caulmick/status/1371527921815404546

[sid waddell]

Shinners think everything is a "deep state" conspiracy

Release the Craicen

Or something like that

[Angelo]

There's a 520 page thread on SF bashing down the page.

Can you kindly f**k off and post your absolute nonsense on that and stop spamming this thread with your bigoted crap.

[weareros]

So the guy he provided with a confidential contract, who was not party to the talks, who was from a rival organisation who is stating he wanted to destroy them.

Do you think it was transparent that Varadkar was assisting friends who wanted to destroy a rival organisation? Do you think it was transparency that he went behind the back of all his cabinet colleagues to help his friend out? Do you think it was transparency that led Varadkar to delete his text message exchanges with his friend?

A rival union. Everyone - including me and you - should know how tax payers money is being used, particular with a union like IMO. One union trying to destroy another is neither here nor there. Have a look at the history of the IMO, which itself ate up another union. Huge amounts of financial corruption. Huge retirement packages. A CEO got a nice 9 million retirement package. It was right that both unions should have access to the agreement. And above all, the public should have known. The question is was the law broken by showing a draft of the pay agreement. I'm willing to bet no law was broken based on how the statute is written. Time will tell.

So you are ignoring the fact that the guy who he leaked the confidential document too stated that his intention was to destroy the IMO.

Not ignoring. It's well known a lot of doctors left the IMO after the previous CEO got a 9 million payout - was originally supposed to be 20 million. So it was considered corrupt at the top.

This is about Varadkar breaking the law to pull favours for his friends. For some bizarre reason only known to you, you are attempting to shift focus o this and justify it because the IMO may not have been governed properly.

No, I have said all along that the way the Official Secrets Act was written, I did not think a law was broken. I also stated that the OSA is an authoritarian law written by the then minister Charles Haughey to suppress info. I thought it curious that those who argue a law was broken, need it to be a very authoritarian law that prevents even harmless data being shared. Thus oh Leo broke the law. I would argue it's entirely harmless to share this data, and besides, the OSA gives authorisation to members of government to release confidential data. At issue is the way he was not transparent with his own party or government, but as regards the OSA - show me any clause in that statute that was broken. I'd be curious. If I'm wrong I'll admit it.

Ironically enough the organisation Varadkar leaked the confidential documents too were wound up for financial irregularities and poor governance.

Agreed. I have no love for either union. But both at the time were representing doctors.

Your justification is utterly incredible here. Who do you vote for?

Always been left wing, so can assure not any of the following parties: FG, FF, SF, PDs, Aontu, etc.

[Angelo]

So the guy he provided with a confidential contract, who was not party to the talks, who was from a rival organisation who is stating he wanted to destroy them.

Do you think it was transparent that Varadkar was assisting friends who wanted to destroy a rival organisation? Do you think it was transparency that he went behind the back of all his cabinet colleagues to help his friend out? Do you think it was transparency that led Varadkar to delete his text message exchanges with his friend?

A rival union. Everyone - including me and you - should know how tax payers money is being used, particular with a union like IMO. One union trying to destroy another is neither here nor there. Have a look at the history of the IMO, which itself ate up another union. Huge amounts of financial corruption. Huge retirement packages. A CEO got a nice 9 million retirement package. It was right that both unions should have access to the agreement. And above all, the public should have known. The question is was the law broken by showing a draft of the pay agreement. I'm willing to bet no law was broken based on how the statute is written. Time will tell.

So you are ignoring the fact that the guy who he leaked the confidential document too stated that his intention was to destroy the IMO.

Not ignoring. It's well known a lot of doctors left the IMO after the previous CEO got a 9 million payout - was originally supposed to be 20 million. So it was considered corrupt at the top.

This is about Varadkar breaking the law to pull favours for his friends. For some bizarre reason only known to you, you are attempting to shift focus o this and justify it because the IMO may not have been governed properly.

No, I have said all along that the way the Official Secrets Act was written, I did not think a law was broken. I also stated that the OSA is an authoritarian law written by the then minister Charles Haughey to suppress info. I thought it curious that those who argue a law was broken, need it to be a very authoritarian law that prevents even harmless data being shared. Thus oh Leo broke the law. I would argue it's entirely harmless to share this data, and besides, the OSA gives authorisation to members of government to release confidential data. At issue is the way he was not transparent with his own party or government, but as regards the OSA - show me any clause in that statute that was broken. I'd be curious. If I'm wrong I'll admit it.

Ironically enough the organisation Varadkar leaked the confidential documents too were wound up for financial irregularities and poor governance.

Agreed. I have no love for either union. But both at the time were representing doctors.

Your justification is utterly incredible here. Who do you vote for?

Always been left wing, so can assure not any of the following parties: FG, FF, SF, PDs, Aontu, etc.

Ah yes.

Another one of the I don't vote for FFG but who spend most of their time defending them. It's amazing how most free staters you speak to on this board will not admit to voting for the three parties who took home 68% of the votes in the last election. It's also amazing how the likes of you guys will bash SF and roll out to defend FFG at every opportunity. You're an ashamed FFG voter. We'll just get that clear now and not let you insult the intelligence of the board with po-faced lies.

On to Varadkar. It's absolutely preposterous what you're saying here, it's completely illogical.

You have ignored the fact that the Varadkar leaked an agreement that was confidential to the IMO and govt to a rival organisation. He did this throught he medium of his friend who had been pestering Varadkar for the document.

We know that his friend intended to "destroy" the rival organisation involved in the talks and Varadkar armed him with something that the NAGP believed would allow them "to take the wind out of the IMO's sails".

You make this point about the IMO which is ridiculous when the rival organisation was actually even more shambolically governed that the organisation you were undermining. That rival organisation is now wound up due to financial irregularities and poor governance. This was well known at the time of the leak too so the argument you are making here has no credibility.

There's nothing that justifies this type of naked cronyism that Varadkar engaged. He abused his position of power, the highest office in the state, to advance the interest of his friends. He broke the law in doing so, he is under criminal investigation and he should step aside until this is all over. He should have resigned as Tanaiste when this news emerged, he should have been sacked if he refused to resign and how anyone can defend this is beyond me.

It is not credible to say anything other than Varadkar did this as a favour for his friend.

Why did he delete text messages of the requests? He was required to keep these due to FOI requirements, so why would he delete them? Who deletes Whatsapp messages? Particularly ones that are official requests? Why would he do this?

[weareros]

Another one of the I don't vote for FFG but who spend most of their time defending them. It's amazing how most free staters you speak to on this board will not admit to voting for the three parties who took home 68% of the votes in the last election. It's also amazing how the likes of you guys will bash SF and roll out to defend FFG at every opportunity. You're an ashamed FFG voter. We'll just get that clear now and not let you insult the intelligence of the board with po-faced lies.

On to Varadkar. It's absolutely preposterous what you're saying here, it's completely illogical.

You have ignored the fact that the Varadkar leaked an agreement that was confidential to the IMO and govt to a rival organisation. He did this throught he medium of his friend who had been pestering Varadkar for the document.

I don't think I'm on any thread bashing SF, or any other party. In fact, I think I've told you before I have great respect for our local Sinn Fein councillor. I've just asked you for the part of the Official Secrets Act, or whatever Act, where a law has been broken. Can you quote in plain English or as Gaeilige instead of the usual rant that you must be a Free State voting FFG voter. I would just like to see what part of the Act was contravened, because based on my reading I did not see anything that would hold up in court. And besides, as I've said the Official Secrets Act is a classic example of the toxic Free State culture you like to rail against - a lethal combination of British legislation and the worst excesses of Fianna Fail that has been misused over the decades to slap confidential on literally anything.

[skeog]

Did ML call for GA to stand down when being investigated for Jean Mc Convilles murder?.

[Angelo]

Another one of the I don't vote for FFG but who spend most of their time defending them. It's amazing how most free staters you speak to on this board will not admit to voting for the three parties who took home 68% of the votes in the last election. It's also amazing how the likes of you guys will bash SF and roll out to defend FFG at every opportunity. You're an ashamed FFG voter. We'll just get that clear now and not let you insult the intelligence of the board with po-faced lies.

On to Varadkar. It's absolutely preposterous what you're saying here, it's completely illogical.

You have ignored the fact that the Varadkar leaked an agreement that was confidential to the IMO and govt to a rival organisation. He did this throught he medium of his friend who had been pestering Varadkar for the document.

I don't think I'm on any thread bashing SF, or any other party. In fact, I think I've told you before I have great respect for our local Sinn Fein councillor. I've just asked you for the part of the Official Secrets Act, or whatever Act, where a law has been broken. Can you quote in plain English or as Gaeilige instead of the usual rant that you must be a Free State voting FFG voter. I would just like to see what part of the Act was contravened, because based on my reading I did not see anything that would hold up in court. And besides, as I've said the Official Secrets Act is a classic example of the toxic Free State culture you like to rail against - a lethal combination of British legislation and the worst excesses of Fianna Fail that has been misused over the decades to slap confidential on literally anything.

Apologies if I picked you up wrong.

He was gaining an advantage for a friend.

lt's plain and simple in that regard and stating otherwise defies credibility and logic. That was his motive, nothing was for the good of the nation or passing this deal.

There is now a full criminal investigation underway and a file is being readied for DPP so it's serious. I don't believe anything will come on this as we can see that the FFG strangehold on judicial auspices are very much aligned of late. That was another murky chapter for FFG and their horsetrading on judicial appointments.

The biggest story of 2020 was Clifden but the focus was all on the wrong reasons, the entitlement of the powerful to have their shindig while the little people who were told to stay indoors was not surprising but a detraction from the real talking point. The biggest revelation was the cosy relationship between the judiciary, the banking sector, vulture funds, state media and the ruling class politicians of FF/FG/Lab. Vulture funds, judges, current affairs broadcasters and ministers all cavorting around at a social event sponsored by a state body - that's any eye opener into the FFG establishment corruption culture. That element was stripped there naked for all to see and do you think RTE and Independent/Irish Times bothered to cover it? No.

The media in the Free State are an absolute disgrace

[Angelo]

Did ML call for GA to stand down when being investigated for Jean Mc Convilles murder?.

Another one trying to deflect from the issue at hand.

[Baile Brigín 2]

Did ML call for GA to stand down when being investigated for Jean Mc Convilles murder?.

He wasn't the Taoiseach

[straightred]

Another one of the I don't vote for FFG but who spend most of their time defending them. It's amazing how most free staters you speak to on this board will not admit to voting for the three parties who took home 68% of the votes in the last election. It's also amazing how the likes of you guys will bash SF and roll out to defend FFG at every opportunity. You're an ashamed FFG voter. We'll just get that clear now and not let you insult the intelligence of the board with po-faced lies.

On to Varadkar. It's absolutely preposterous what you're saying here, it's completely illogical.

You have ignored the fact that the Varadkar leaked an agreement that was confidential to the IMO and govt to a rival organisation. He did this throught he medium of his friend who had been pestering Varadkar for the document.

I don't think I'm on any thread bashing SF, or any other party. In fact, I think I've told you before I have great respect for our local Sinn Fein councillor. I've just asked you for the part of the Official Secrets Act, or whatever Act, where a law has been broken. Can you quote in plain English or as Gaeilige instead of the usual rant that you must be a Free State voting FFG voter. I would just like to see what part of the Act was contravened, because based on my reading I did not see anything that would hold up in court. And besides, as I've said the Official Secrets Act is a classic example of the toxic Free State culture you like to rail against - a lethal combination of British legislation and the worst excesses of Fianna Fail that has been misused over the decades to slap confidential on literally anything.

Here's the village magazine's take on it. They are calling out the Irish Times.

https://twitter.com/VillageMagIRE/status/1371152775409729550

Who knows if it will even reach a court but the fact that it has got this far means there must be some substance in it. As incoming Mknister for Justice Heather Humphries's declaration yesterday that he did nothing wrong isn't helpful either

[skeog]

He was the leader of SF at the time sure wasnt there a big welcome home party on his release without charge.Poor Mrs mc Conville was not afforded the same to her young family.SF are well used to being a judge and jury outfit I am sure if Mr V has done wrong he will rightly tried in a proper court of law.The same privelege was not afforded to so many who fell foul of Mr Stakeknife and so many others.Dont hear many clamouring for him to face justice from within the SF ranks.

[imtommygunn]

Is the south now the same as the north where no one resigns for one reason... because sin fein?

[tonto1888]

Some amount of deflection on this thread. SF live rent free in an awful amount of posters heads