Should Leo stand down until investigation complete?

[Angelo]

Apparently the opposition has to wait a further two months to propose a vote of no confidence against Varadkar.

But as Itchy said on the first page.

The primary issue for me is how the mainstream media in the state including the state broadcaster has done everything in its power to suppress or minimise the coverage on this issue.

[Angelo]

This is also worth reading on how the FFG Greens government decided to investigate matters in a fair and independent manner.......


https://www.thejournal.ie/dail-approves-geraldine-feeney-sipo-5271609-Nov2020/

[dublin7]

It's hard to see how this has any chance of going to court. Politicians from all parties around the world have been leaking document since forever, this just happens to be the one occasion a politician got caught. I don't see how it can be proven Leo gained materially from leaking the document.

Can you imagine the terror if politicians/journalists were told they face prosecution for publishing leaked documents.     

[tonto1888]

Varadkar's mistake is that he wasn't involved in the murder of an innocent woman, didn't order a human bomb, didn't cover up his brother's paedophilia and didn't eulogise a Nazi collaborator

Had he done any of those things, the Shinnerbots would defend him to the death

And just like that things go to shit again

[tonto1888]

Seems like very few people care

Sinn Fein have been less than vocal anyway and that's hardly a surprise given they have no moral authority whatsoever to call out corruption

Though maybe they could use some of the Northern Bank money to fund their own "investigation"

You're trying to do one of two things Sid.

Trying to wind up SF posters, and don't give a sh!t if you side track another thread to do so just so you can point score.

Trying to supress discussion about the actual issue by trying to use distracting whataboutery.

Neither is an addition to the board and you are acting like a complete child.

Sorry but the strategy of Sinn Fein supporters literally any time anything to do with the PIRA or Sinn Fein corruption or murder is brought up is to whatabout, deflect and deny

See what happened when the Paul Quinn story raised its head before the last election

So it's absolutely laughable to see SF supporters complaining here

There's a very serious point here

And that is that Sinn Fein supporters have zero moral authority to call any sort of corruption - alleged or proven - and this case is far from proven

Again, Varadkar's mistake was that he didn't order a human bomb, rob a bank, cover up child sex abuse, cover up murders, or commemorate a Nazi collaborator

Because these are the exact things that Sinn Fein supporters not just tolerate but celebrate

Whereas you turn everything into SF bashing

[Angelo]

It's hard to see how this has any chance of going to court. Politicians from all parties around the world have been leaking document since forever, this just happens to be the one occasion a politician got caught. I don't see how it can be proven Leo gained materially from leaking the document.

Can you imagine the terror if politicians/journalists were told they face prosecution for publishing leaked documents.   

This is just an incredible comment.

I would certainly hope politicians don't go around leaking confidential contracts to their friends and associates who have vested interests in those documents.

And I would certainly hope that they are punished if they are exposed doing so.

Obviously you are pro-corruption?

[straightred]

It's hard to see how this has any chance of going to court. Politicians from all parties around the world have been leaking document since forever, this just happens to be the one occasion a politician got caught. I don't see how it can be proven Leo gained materially from leaking the document.

Can you imagine the terror if politicians/journalists were told they face prosecution for publishing leaked documents.   

That's not the point. I don't think the inference here is that Leo gained anything personally but rather it was the recipient that stood to gain. Who knows what his motivation was to leak it. Leo claims he is exempt from the officials secrets act but there's doubt over that too. Whether or not it goes to court remains to be seen but no matter what happens now he is badly damaged by the whole thing. The label #Leotheleak has stuck and he can't even deny it. I doubt very much that he'll be Taoiseach again.

[sid waddell]

In July, the leaders of the four other main parties in Stormont all called for Michelle O'Neill to stand aside as SF leader while she was under police investigation

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/politics/sinn-fein-isolated-every-other-executive-party-calls-michelle-oneill-quit-over-flagrant-breaches-2902544

Sinn Féin isolated as every other Executive party calls on Michelle O'Neill to quit over 'flagrant' breaches

This was the response:

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-31008846.html

O'Neill 'will not be stepping aside under any circumstances', says Sinn Féin


Sinn Fein are like something out of the Benny Hill show

The most corrupt and shameless of the lot of them

And not one Shinnerbot here called on O'Neill to stand aside

Total and utter hypocrites

[dublin7]

It's hard to see how this has any chance of going to court. Politicians from all parties around the world have been leaking document since forever, this just happens to be the one occasion a politician got caught. I don't see how it can be proven Leo gained materially from leaking the document.

Can you imagine the terror if politicians/journalists were told they face prosecution for publishing leaked documents.   

That's not the point. I don't think the inference here is that Leo gained anything personally but rather it was the recipient that stood to gain. Who knows what his motivation was to leak it. Leo claims he is exempt from the officials secrets act but there's doubt over that too. Whether or not it goes to court remains to be seen but no matter what happens now he is badly damaged by the whole thing. The label #Leotheleak has stuck and he can't even deny it. I doubt very much that he'll be Taoiseach again.

That's reaching and again very difficult to prove. I wouldn't be so sure about Leo never becoming Taoiseach again. Michael Lowry has criminal convictions for his questionable finances, not to mention the tribunal findings against him and he continues to top the polls in Tipp. The Irish electorate can forget very quickly about things like this and while #leotheleak might be trending on twitter, that's a cesspit of hate/abuse these days and not reflective of real world opinion

[Angelo]

Varadkar is unlikely to be elected again if it goes to the polls I'd imagine. He's been shown up to be nothing more than a toxic, corrupt and divisive Tatcherite politician.

He has cynically used his sexuality and race to create a toxic political discourse in the past, has tried to stoke tensions over being white and middles class and recently last week sought to crassly bring sectarianism to stoke political tensions.

He is an absolute sc**bag of a politician.

[sid waddell]

It's hard to see how this has any chance of going to court. Politicians from all parties around the world have been leaking document since forever, this just happens to be the one occasion a politician got caught. I don't see how it can be proven Leo gained materially from leaking the document.

Can you imagine the terror if politicians/journalists were told they face prosecution for publishing leaked documents.   

That's not the point. I don't think the inference here is that Leo gained anything personally but rather it was the recipient that stood to gain. Who knows what his motivation was to leak it. Leo claims he is exempt from the officials secrets act but there's doubt over that too. Whether or not it goes to court remains to be seen but no matter what happens now he is badly damaged by the whole thing. The label #Leotheleak has stuck and he can't even deny it. I doubt very much that he'll be Taoiseach again.

That's reaching and again very difficult to prove. I wouldn't be so sure about Leo never becoming Taoiseach again. Michael Lowry has criminal convictions for his questionable finances, not to mention the tribunal findings against him and he continues to top the polls in Tipp. The Irish electorate can forget very quickly about things like this and while #leotheleak might be trending on twitter, that's a cesspit of hate/abuse these days and not reflective of real world opinion

I'm no fan of Varadkar, not least for the way he arrogantly dismissed public health advice, but some of the abuse aimed at him, including on this forum, has a distinctly racist air about it, homophobic too - we know there is at least one extremely prominent poster here who really doesn't like the idea of gayness at all

Twitter hashtags mean nothing in the real world, they're like Irish number ones, you can reach the top of the hit parade with a couple of hundred co-ordinated messages

[weareros]

It's hard to see how this has any chance of going to court. Politicians from all parties around the world have been leaking document since forever, this just happens to be the one occasion a politician got caught. I don't see how it can be proven Leo gained materially from leaking the document.

Can you imagine the terror if politicians/journalists were told they face prosecution for publishing leaked documents.   

This is just an incredible comment.

I would certainly hope politicians don't go around leaking confidential contracts to their friends and associates who have vested interests in those documents.

And I would certainly hope that they are punished if they are exposed doing so.

Obviously you are pro-corruption?

On this one, it's questionable why a contract that was to pay doctors with taxpayers money is covered by Official Secrets Act. There should always be complete transparency around this. The OSA was created by Haughey to enable politicians to easily suppress information. However, as I mentioned earlier, the statute was written in such a way that members of government are exempt should they release the data. Ironically those who believe Varadkar broke the law must hold tight to the most extreme interpretation of a British law that was later made more extreme by Charlie Haughey. Good article on the authoritarianism of the OSA here.
https://www.theirishstory.com/2010/07/25/a-short-history-of-freedom-of-information-in-independent-ireland/#.YE-QOJNKhQI

Bit disappointed with you Angelo for defending a classic piece of British/Fianna Fail/Irish Free state piece of authoritarian legislation to block transparency in how the public purse is used. Do you not think anyone had a right to see what the government was negotiating with the doctor's union?

[Angelo]

It's hard to see how this has any chance of going to court. Politicians from all parties around the world have been leaking document since forever, this just happens to be the one occasion a politician got caught. I don't see how it can be proven Leo gained materially from leaking the document.

Can you imagine the terror if politicians/journalists were told they face prosecution for publishing leaked documents.   

This is just an incredible comment.

I would certainly hope politicians don't go around leaking confidential contracts to their friends and associates who have vested interests in those documents.

And I would certainly hope that they are punished if they are exposed doing so.

Obviously you are pro-corruption?

On this one, it's questionable why a contract that was to pay doctors with taxpayers money is covered by Official Secrets Act. There should always be complete transparency around this. The OSA was created by Haughey to enable politicians to easily suppress information. However, as I mentioned earlier, the statute was written in such a way that members of government are exempt should they release the data. Ironically those who believe Varadkar broke the law must hold tight to the most extreme interpretation of a British law that was later made more extreme by Charlie Haughey. Good article on the authoritarianism of the OSA here.
https://www.theirishstory.com/2010/07/25/a-short-history-of-freedom-of-information-in-independent-ireland/#.YE-QOJNKhQI

Bit disappointed with you Angelo for defending a classic piece of British/Fianna Fail/Irish Free state piece of authoritarian legislation to block transparency in how the public purse is used. Do you not think anyone had a right to see what the government was negotiating with the doctor's union?

Disappointed in me?

The fact that you are proffering the most ridiculous type of excuse here for the head of state pulling strokes for a friend is telling.

I think you are being disingenuous and facetious here so I'm going to ask you this here.

This is a text message from Varadkar's friend that was published by Village Magazine.



So the guy he provided with a confidential contract, who was not party to the talks, who was from a rival organisation who is stating he wanted to destroy them.

Do you think it was transparent that Varadkar was assisting friends who wanted to destroy a rival organisation? Do you think it was transparency that he went behind the back of all his cabinet colleagues to help his friend out? Do you think it was transparency that led Varadkar to delete his text message exchanges with his friend?

[straightred]

And he did it while the then Minister of Health (Harris) couldn't even get his hands on the contract (he was refused access by his own dept) That's a measure of how sensitive this was but leo stuffed a copy in an envelope and sent it to his mate (for reasons unknown).

As i said earlier laws are only for the little people

[straightred]

It's hard to see how this has any chance of going to court. Politicians from all parties around the world have been leaking document since forever, this just happens to be the one occasion a politician got caught. I don't see how it can be proven Leo gained materially from leaking the document.

Can you imagine the terror if politicians/journalists were told they face prosecution for publishing leaked documents.   

That's not the point. I don't think the inference here is that Leo gained anything personally but rather it was the recipient that stood to gain. Who knows what his motivation was to leak it. Leo claims he is exempt from the officials secrets act but there's doubt over that too. Whether or not it goes to court remains to be seen but no matter what happens now he is badly damaged by the whole thing. The label #Leotheleak has stuck and he can't even deny it. I doubt very much that he'll be Taoiseach again.

That's reaching and again very difficult to prove. I wouldn't be so sure about Leo never becoming Taoiseach again. Michael Lowry has criminal convictions for his questionable finances, not to mention the tribunal findings against him and he continues to top the polls in Tipp. The Irish electorate can forget very quickly about things like this and while #leotheleak might be trending on twitter, that's a cesspit of hate/abuse these days and not reflective of real world opinion

I'm no fan of Varadkar, not least for the way he arrogantly dismissed public health advice, but some of the abuse aimed at him, including on this forum, has a distinctly racist air about it, homophobic too - we know there is at least one extremely prominent poster here who really doesn't like the idea of gayness at all

Twitter hashtags mean nothing in the real world, they're like Irish number ones, you can reach the top of the hit parade with a couple of hundred co-ordinated messages

And i'm not fan of him either and there's nothing racist or homophobic about that. I believe this is more evidence of how he has dragged FG down toward the gutter. The constant gaslighting of other parties and the undermining of FF is more evidence. Standards have dropped in FG since Kenny departed. If you point to a few of Leo's achievements then there might be a case for him deserving the benefit of the considerable doubt but I can't think of any. Lets not forget he inherited the Taoiseach's job and then promptly led them to coming 3rd in a 2 horse race in the last general election. Lastly on the hashtag I agree its nothing much in itself but do you really think that all other parties (including FF) won't make hay with this when the time comes ?