Search for New Mayo Manager

[heffo]

An email expressing surprise about a single match day 26 slelction is nothing. Absolutely nothing. But people here are running away with the story and assuming it means they picked the team.

Would it happen in a successful and team if it happened once would it happen again?

Would the same team picker be let leave a panel for two weeks to go do Love Island in Dublin or Kerry? He'd be told to go enjoy himself and not come back

[Il Bomber Destro]

Anyone replying to Syf, Bomber, Indiana or some of the other clowns on here would want their heads examined. No problem with genuine discussion from the likes of Jinxy, heffo, etc. but you're wasting your time with trolls

The main comment I'd have on the story is that it leaves out any discussion of the most important part....the start of it. No mention of the inside job that was the appointment process.

Correct. That was a mess and it appears that from the word go some players at least did not want them. We were also told that some players did not want the alternative at the time either, but as it turned out, the CB decided there was no alternative!

Once in situ however did H&C perform so poorly? Or was it a case of the players just not ever buying into them or believing they were good enough no matter what they tried to do? The fact that players would not agree to sit down and try to work things out with them suggests they were never really accepted because of the shenanigans around their appointment.

My guess is that they were seen as a cheap, opportunistic appointment. I have no idea who the players would have preferred to replace Horan however.

I am not a troll. I'm simply saying that yourself and a few other Mayo fans would want to grow a pair and start calling this shite out for what it is.

A= players picking teams - daft

B= players sitting with managers  watching opposition teams - daft

The Sum of A+B = Mayo all ireland- less again.

This.

I find it baffling that Mayo fans seem to absolve guys like the O'Sheas attempting to undermine the management team and in fact blame the management for this.

I would say Sweeney''s article would put the general view of the rest of the GAA country into perspective. The Mayo players threw their management team under a bus, they tried to scapegoat them for coming up short just like they came up short the 4 years previous and the one subsequent.

There is a God like treatment of their players which you would not get anywhere else in the country I would say. You see it on TV at games in Castlebar where as soon as the final whistle goes they are mobbed by fans and kids looking for autographs. They may be one of the top teams in the country but they haven't won the big one yet and maybe it's the egotism and sense of entitlement that is preventing them - this seems to be indulged by the wider Mayo public.

[Il Bomber Destro]

Good piece on OTB this morning with the paper review, basically stated that H&C have given a self serving article and broken player confidentiality.

The players did what they felt they had to do for their IC careers. H&C even said that some of them voted against them but were new to the panel, I'm not sure how that means they can't vote against H&C

The players did what they had to do?

H&C gave a self serving interview?

Has Mayo turned into North Korea?

A group of players sought to undermine the management team from the get go and then orchestrated a plan to remove them at the end of the season. And the management team don't deserve a right of reply?

[REDCOL]

The Thursday Night before the All Ireland Final a change was made to the Mayo Match Day squad. A player who was on the panel all year was suddenly removed and replaced by a man that was not seen June. At the time, I was disgusted that this be done to a new player on the panel this year, but after reading the article on Saturday I am sick to the stomach. If, as I now believe a relation intervened this was a despicable act. BTW, the player brought in  played no part over the course of the two games and I believe the player they took out probably wouldnt have either.

[seafoid]

2 years since Horan left. What has improved since then ? Or have they stagnated ?
Below he talks about the process. Pep Guardiola is a big believer in the process.  Mayo lost 2 all Irelands to Dublin by one point when they scored 1-14. The process isn't good enough.

Also the Connacht rugby players
They focus on what they are good at. No Glory bursts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmpd-TxziBQ

Portumna man J Muldoon at 2 minutes
Stick with what you do best, believe in yourself believe in what we can achieve together

Mayo have a history of failure so they are more likely to have bitching and backstabbing but the thing is to get the process right and f**k the begrudgers.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/james-horan-on-his-time-at-the-helm-of-mayo-1.2010683

KD: Is part of the legacy that you left behind that losing for Mayo need not be as traumatic as has been the case?
JH: Yes. I know this idea of the process – it is something Jim McGuinness has spoken about as well . . . there are a lot of things that you look for in a game. Things you want to achieve in each game. Obviously, you do want to win but if you lose and do a lot of things right, it is a help. You are looking for more than the win. You are probably sick of me saying this but you take things from every game and you learn.
KD: So what did you as a group improve at most over four years?
JH: I think our skill level is very high. We have maybe one of the highest percentage of players who can hand-pass both sides, peripheral vision both sides and can kick with both feet. We concentrated on that for obvious reasons – it gets you out of trouble, makes you a more rounded player. I suppose our understanding of the game improved. Our tackling as a unit definitely improved.
KD: Do you remember the 2013 final against Dublin just after Andy Moran scored the goal? It seemed that Mayo were right where they wanted to be then: it was game on. It was the time for all hell to break loose in Croke Park but instead there was a definite hush in the crowd . . .
JH: I remember it. Distinctly. It was there to be taken. Look, the players on the pitch are the ones who have the direct influence. But the supporting cast, the crowd, does have a sway on things. Listen to home and away games in the Premier League . . . why does that make a difference? Because of the support and the noise. Would it have changed things that day? I dunno . . . but there was a sense of anxiety, that day, that came as opposed to taking the moment. I felt that a little bit, yeah

[ballinaman]

Is Holmes positioning himself for another club gig outside the county? Intercounty job? Interview smacks of looking after himself rather than the best interests of Mayo football.

[Jinxy]

If even half of what they're saying is true, then whether it's their genuine intention or not, they are acting in the best interests of Mayo football.
It's nothing new that managers will have rows and disagreements with individual players.
However, a small core group of dominant personalities within the playing group cannot be allowed to dictate things.
Bear in mind, we've all spent a lot of time in dressing-rooms.
Whatever was said by certain players to H&C, either in private or at team meetings, was nothing compared to what was being said about them behind their backs.

[Captain Scarlet]

This whole thing seems to be a case of what is going on in a lot of counties in that the managers act as a great mudguard for the players. This time the two men in charge came out and called out a few things that they had to deal with.
Although I don't think it served much use as the general Mayo GAA fan, especially going by Twitter will always support their heroes, not the bolloxes on the sideline. You saw it get to ridiculous levels this year after Hennelly came in and it was all the manager's fault...
But like it or not if a man or two men come in they set the tone and it looks like H & C didn't do that. If the big names were acting up have the balls to drop the superstars. That sets the tone, but it didn't happen.

[Jinxy]

Bearing in mind HOW they came into the job, dropping high-profile players was not a realistic option.
They would have been gone before the start of the championship.

[muppet]

If even half of what they're saying is true, then whether it's their genuine intention or not, they are acting in the best interests of Mayo football.
It's nothing new that managers will have rows and disagreements with individual players.
However, a small core group of dominant personalities within the playing group cannot be allowed to dictate things.[/b
Bear in mind, we've all spent a lot of time in dressing-rooms.
Whatever was said by certain players to H&C, either in private or at team meetings, was nothing compared to what was being said about them behind their backs.

Reading the article, what is it claimed that this group dictated?

[Tubberman]

It sounds like it boils down to bad man management for the main part.
Horan had brought in a more modern, corporate style of management, where the players gave their input/opinions and were listened to. Mgmt didn't have to go along with the players wishes (they couldn't please everyone even if they tried anyway), but at least the players felt they were having an input and their opinions were valued.
H & C didn't go along with that approach which is their own perogative, but it seems to me that they didn't make any attempt (or made a very bad attempt) to explain their methods to the players - it was more a case of "we manage, you play, now get on with it".
Maybe if they had tried to explain their decisions things wouldn't have got to the point they did.
But there were certainly egos on the players part as well, and the fact that this has been highlighted might be no harm at all.

[Lone Shark]

I'm well aware that in all these situations, it's invariably the case that no side is 100% right or wrong. However am I the only one reading this who thinks that a player giving his opinion on a selection issue shouldn't be a problem in and of itself?

For example, say I'm given the job of managing a club team, and a midfielder approaches me and says that he believes player X should get the starting goalkeeper slot. Now of course I'm not going to say "right so, and by the way, who should I pick for full back?" but on the other hand if the player approaches me in the right way, of course I would listen to his views, and if he offers me new information, I'll take that on board. The final call will be mine and I'll expect that to be respected of course.

Now if I go on and pick a different keeper and the player chooses to either

(1) complain publicly
(2) fail to work with the chosen starter in training and matches as he should
(3) bad mouth me or the chosen keeper in his home, place of work etc
(4) knock on my door again the following week making the same request again

then I have a problem. However at no stage is it claimed that any of this happened. If AOS asked for Hennelly, but accepted the decision of Clarke if and when it was made, well then I don't believe he's done anything wrong - and there is nothing in any of this interview to suggest that players did anything other than simply make suggestions.

Similarly with the "Toughest Trade" issue - nobody expects that players do absolutely nothing except work, eat, sleep and train. Everybody has some form of life going on. If AOS was set to miss a lot of training/games and that wasn't cleared with management, then of course there is something to address there - but you address it with the player, not the third party. Again, to go back to my club example, if I have players that have an issue with their diet, I don't ring Supermacs and ask them to cut the lads off at the source.

As I said, I'm aware that there is often more to these stories than meets the eye, but that anecdote alone suggests to me that H/C wanted to treat the lads like minor footballers, dictating their lives and accepting no discussion whatsoever, ad that was always going to be a tough sell with a mature, experienced panel like the Mayo senior football group.

[Zulu]

Although I'm someone who has always defended a player's right to question their management I can't agree with some of the criticism of H&C here. Amateur players have every right to expect to be led by competent management but likewise, that management have every right to respond to criticism, so those saying they've lost respect for H&C are bang out of order IMO. They waited for the right time to do this and are fully entitled to defend their reputation and record as the Mayo management.

In saying that, I think they were wrong to take the Mayo position in the circumstances they did as I believe you need players on your side from the get go and as they didn't have that they should have waited for another opportunity.

I am surprised by those saying it's no big deal for players to question selections though. I think players should question logistics, medical and training if they feel it is not up to scratch but team selection is a big no no. That's crossing a line IMO and is not simply adults discussing aspects of the team. If I was David Clarke and knew SOS was lobbying for his own clubman to have my position then where do you go? Do I go to management and tell them that I want SOS dropped as I don't like the timing of his runs as much as another midfielder? No, that's a line you can't allow be crossed. As long as the management are giving you a fair chance to win you place on the team then that's all you can expect.

If H&C weren't up to it then fair enough but I'm surprised that so many Mayo posters are dismissing most of what H&C are saying as I wouldn't like what I'm hearing about the players if I were them.

[Buttofthehill]

Although I'm someone who has always defended a player's right to question their management I can't agree with some of the criticism of H&C here. Amateur players have every right to expect to be led by competent management but likewise, that management have every right to respond to criticism, so those saying they've lost respect for H&C are bang out of order IMO. They waited for the right time to do this and are fully entitled to defend their reputation and record as the Mayo management.

In saying that, I think they were wrong to take the Mayo position in the circumstances they did as I believe you need players on your side from the get go and as they didn't have that they should have waited for another opportunity.

I am surprised by those saying it's no big deal for players to question selections though. I think players should question logistics, medical and training if they feel it is not up to scratch but team selection is a big no no. That's crossing a line IMO and is not simply adults discussing aspects of the team. If I was David Clarke and knew SOS was lobbying for his own clubman to have my position then where do you go? Do I go to management and tell them that I want SOS dropped as I don't like the timing of his runs as much as another midfielder? No, that's a line you can't allow be crossed. As long as the management are giving you a fair chance to win you place on the team then that's all you can expect.

If H&C weren't up to it then fair enough but I'm surprised that so many Mayo posters are dismissing most of what H&C are saying as I wouldn't like what I'm hearing about the players if I were them.

Would agree with this. The whole concept of a team is useless if this happens.
Just to clarify, did H&C actually oblige to these requests. I was away this wknd so only catching up now, apologies if this has been asked already.

[Syferus]

It sounds like it boils down to bad man management for the main part.
Horan had brought in a more modern, corporate style of management, where the players gave their input/opinions and were listened to. Mgmt didn't have to go along with the players wishes (they couldn't please everyone even if they tried anyway), but at least the players felt they were having an input and their opinions were valued.
H & C didn't go along with that approach which is their own perogative, but it seems to me that they didn't make any attempt (or made a very bad attempt) to explain their methods to the players - it was more a case of "we manage, you play, now get on with it".
Maybe if they had tried to explain their decisions things wouldn't have got to the point they did.
But there were certainly egos on the players part as well, and the fact that this has been highlighted might be no harm at all.

Continually questioning the selection of other players and lobbying for changes at a particular position are not usual man management decisions. It's strange that Mayo supporters are so unwilling to criticize the players involved because their actions were a poor reflection of themselves and a dis-service to their county.

The easy way out is to blame the two lads not involved now and ignore the players' transgressions and it's sad to see so many take that approach. Everyone else can see through it.