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[Level up the financial resources each county team can spend.Increase the number of GAA paid coaches in weaker countiesImprove training facilities in weaker countiesLimit the amount of training county teams do.]

What the graph illustrates is that there are already superpowers in GAA. The only county in Leinster that may make the super 8 is Dublin. How are the rest of the counties ever going to compete with Dublin? It is like asking Wycombe Wanderers to go toe to toe with Chelsea..........instead of proposals like this the GAA should be coming up with ideas to make the weaker counties (counties like Meath Down Cork Galway Armagh Cavan Roscommon and others) who have been traditionally competitive in a position where they can catch up with the top 4. That is the only way they are going to have a great championship in the future. And to think that Cavan and Roscommon are in Division One but are still so far off All Ireland contention just makes this argument stronger!
How do you do it?
Level up the financial resources each county team can spend.
Increase the number of GAA paid coaches in weaker counties
Improve training facilities in weaker counties
Limit the amount of training county teams do.
Have a fixture schedule that helps the club game in every county so that players in weaker counties dont choose club over county as they wont lose out playing with their club

The more counties who can be competitive the better the provincial and All Ireland series will be and the money will roll in from all around the country. If it is limited to 8 counties each year then the financial spread will be much less!

I would agree with you on most of those points. But it's championship format proposals that are being voted on here. As I've said previously, no championship format is going to give the weaker counties a chance of beating Dublin. Most GAA people would like to see an evening of the playing field, but IMO, that can only be addressed through motions that deal with finance. One example would be the idea that all sponsorship money is put into one pot and then divided equally to each county.

The graph also shows us that of the 5 counties that have made the last 8 once, 4 of them have made it there in the last 6 years. The fifth county, Wexford, made it there in 2008. Hardly an argument supporting the idea that 8 elite counties will play each other year in, year out.

[Out of interest, what's your main objection to these proposals going through?]

Do we know what way the vote is likely to go at this stage? I think everything at this stage is just mere speculation and I'm hopeful that the statements of the CPA in recent days will have influence in getting the 1/3rd support needed to prevent this motion from passing. Otherwise I think this has the capability of being a massive own goal for the GAA and will lead to a further divide between the GAA hierarchy and the grass roots.

Out of interest, what's your main objection to these proposals going through?

I can see some logic in the CPA argument that they don't go far enough and that the can is being pushed down the road for another 3 years. But this is GAA Congress were talking about, no radical proposal is getting through there for another couple of decades. As far as I can see the only real changes proposed here are an extra 8 matches in July/August played at provincial venues. Grounds that are lucky to see one big match a year at present.

Major objection is the so called super 8 element. The elite will play more top level games, gain more exposure and these counties will veer closer to semi-pro status. A Diluted league structure in the middle of the championship will do nothing for excitement and the possibility of shock results will become non existent. It also has the potential to create effective dead rubbers in mid summer and people staying away from attending the matches since they know there will always be another day out. There is absolutely no need for a super 8 structure other than for commercial reasons.

The abolition of replays I have no issue with and moving the season forward I'd be in favour of as well, even if I'd prefer the championship to be completed even earlier and run a club series that is properly promoted on tv between August-December.

23 counties have made the all-Ireland quarter finals in the last 15 years so it's unlikely to be the same elite 8, year in year out. The majority of counties could have a realistic chance of making it that far. At present, 4 counties have realistic ambitions of winning the all Ireland. I don't think that any structural change to the championship is going to change that though.

The main driving force behind the super 8s is undoubtedly commercial reasons. But at the same time, as a supporter, the prospect of more games between the top teams at the height of summer is not something I'd have a problem with. At present, they usually only meet each other at this time of year when the weather is shite. The fact that the 2 provincial champions play each other first at the group stages should also reduce the possibility of dead rubber matches.

Do we know what way the vote is likely to go at this stage? I think everything at this stage is just mere speculation and I'm hopeful that the statements of the CPA in recent days will have influence in getting the 1/3rd support needed to prevent this motion from passing. Otherwise I think this has the capability of being a massive own goal for the GAA and will lead to a further divide between the GAA hierarchy and the grass roots.

Out of interest, what's your main objection to these proposals going through?

I can see some logic in the CPA argument that they don't go far enough and that the can is being pushed down the road for another 3 years. But this is GAA Congress were talking about, no radical proposal is getting through there for another couple of decades. As far as I can see the only real changes proposed here are an extra 8 matches in July/August played at provincial venues. Grounds that are lucky to see one big match a year at present.

I can understand why he big counties like Dublin, Mayo, Kerry etc voting in favour of these proposals. What I don't understand is how delegates from smaller counties would vote for these proposals if they genuinely have no heir counties best interest at heart. It's not as if Padraic Duffy is touring the country to try and sell his proposals around the counties!!

They've added in a sweetener for weaker counties by giving division 3 and 4 counties home advantage in the qualifiers. The proposals also say that 'A significant proportion of this increase (cash from the super 8s) should be ring-fenced for development of our games in less successful counties.'

While the proposals will be of little real benefit to the smaller counties, they're still a bit better than what's currently there.

While Kieran Shannon's 'bigger, better picture' is laudable, it's not based in any practical reality. If a simple motion to push the All-Ireland finals back 2 weeks couldn't get through congress last year, how does he expect a radical 2020 vision to come even close? The current proposals free up the month of September for club and gives us more meaningful matches in August, played in under-used provincial venues. It's as good as we'll get for now.

Do you have 'closer than normal' relationship with everyone you sat beside at a match?

Have you any other examples of a manager sitting beside a key player when analysing the opposition at a big inter-county championship match?

[If AOS was willing to contact a manager that he didn't particualry get on with about team selection,]

Although I'm someone who has always defended a player's right to question their management I can't agree with some of the criticism of H&C here. Amateur players have every right to expect to be led by competent management but likewise, that management have every right to respond to criticism, so those saying they've lost respect for H&C are bang out of order IMO. They waited for the right time to do this and are fully entitled to defend their reputation and record as the Mayo management.

In saying that, I think they were wrong to take the Mayo position in the circumstances they did as I believe you need players on your side from the get go and as they didn't have that they should have waited for another opportunity.

I am surprised by those saying it's no big deal for players to question selections though. I think players should question logistics, medical and training if they feel it is not up to scratch but team selection is a big no no. That's crossing a line IMO and is not simply adults discussing aspects of the team. If I was David Clarke and knew SOS was lobbying for his own clubman to have my position then where do you go? Do I go to management and tell them that I want SOS dropped as I don't like the timing of his runs as much as another midfielder? No, that's a line you can't allow be crossed. As long as the management are giving you a fair chance to win you place on the team then that's all you can expect.

If H&C weren't up to it then fair enough but I'm surprised that so many Mayo posters are dismissing most of what H&C are saying as I wouldn't like what I'm hearing about the players if I were them.

I'd agree with most of that. A lot of people here focusing on the wrong issues. Due to the shambolic appointment process, H and C were never going to be able to fully command the respect of the group. This is an essential for an intercounty team with genuine all-Ireland ambitions so they just had to go. Unfortunately, it could have been handled a lot better by all parties involved.

In my view, the recent interview did however reveal two very significant events. 1. Séamie O Shea requesting that Hennelly start the Galway game in 2015 and 2. Aidan O Shea questioning the omission of a player from the squad via email. Now some Mayo supporters may view these as minor incidents but I don't see it that way. While I'm aware that the old 'dictator' style of management wont cut it in the modern era, the reasons outlined above show why there has to be a line with regard to team selection.

Nobody except the people involved know the exact truth behind the Rob Hennelly decision in this years final. These two incidents do however give a certain amount of credence to the story we've all heard. If AOS was willing to contact a manager that he didn't particualry get on with about team selection, it's not a far stretch to suggest that he was plugging a certain selection to a manager that he sat beside at this years Dublin v Kerry Semi final.

This is typical of the discussion and the interpolations being made.

Where is it claimed in the article that AOS contacted the manager about a team selection?

The article stated that AOS sent an email to management questioning the omission of player from the match day 26. 'That's questioning team selection in my book.'

Does your book state that a Gaelic football team has 26 players?

Anyway, tell us, who did Aiden O'Shea have picked for the drawn All-Ireland Final after his conversation during the semi-final?

I'm not going to get into an argument over the definition of the word 'team'. You can dress it up whatever way you like but the relevant email involved AOS questioning management's selections and to me that is crossing the line. You obviously don't see it that way so we'll have to disagree.

I never said that Aidan O Shea tried to have anyone picked in a conversation during the semi-final. I brought up the semi-final as I believe the fact that AOS sat beside SR at the match shows that they have a closer than normal player-manager relationship.

This is what you said ffs!

'it's not a far stretch to suggest that he was plugging a certain selection to a manager that he sat beside at this years Dublin v Kerry Semi final.'

Exactly, to a manager that he sat beside. I didn't say he was plugging it there and then. (I also didn't say that he definitely did do it either by the way)

[If AOS was willing to contact a manager that he didn't particualry get on with about team selection,]

Although I'm someone who has always defended a player's right to question their management I can't agree with some of the criticism of H&C here. Amateur players have every right to expect to be led by competent management but likewise, that management have every right to respond to criticism, so those saying they've lost respect for H&C are bang out of order IMO. They waited for the right time to do this and are fully entitled to defend their reputation and record as the Mayo management.

In saying that, I think they were wrong to take the Mayo position in the circumstances they did as I believe you need players on your side from the get go and as they didn't have that they should have waited for another opportunity.

I am surprised by those saying it's no big deal for players to question selections though. I think players should question logistics, medical and training if they feel it is not up to scratch but team selection is a big no no. That's crossing a line IMO and is not simply adults discussing aspects of the team. If I was David Clarke and knew SOS was lobbying for his own clubman to have my position then where do you go? Do I go to management and tell them that I want SOS dropped as I don't like the timing of his runs as much as another midfielder? No, that's a line you can't allow be crossed. As long as the management are giving you a fair chance to win you place on the team then that's all you can expect.

If H&C weren't up to it then fair enough but I'm surprised that so many Mayo posters are dismissing most of what H&C are saying as I wouldn't like what I'm hearing about the players if I were them.

I'd agree with most of that. A lot of people here focusing on the wrong issues. Due to the shambolic appointment process, H and C were never going to be able to fully command the respect of the group. This is an essential for an intercounty team with genuine all-Ireland ambitions so they just had to go. Unfortunately, it could have been handled a lot better by all parties involved.

In my view, the recent interview did however reveal two very significant events. 1. Séamie O Shea requesting that Hennelly start the Galway game in 2015 and 2. Aidan O Shea questioning the omission of a player from the squad via email. Now some Mayo supporters may view these as minor incidents but I don't see it that way. While I'm aware that the old 'dictator' style of management wont cut it in the modern era, the reasons outlined above show why there has to be a line with regard to team selection.

Nobody except the people involved know the exact truth behind the Rob Hennelly decision in this years final. These two incidents do however give a certain amount of credence to the story we've all heard. If AOS was willing to contact a manager that he didn't particualry get on with about team selection, it's not a far stretch to suggest that he was plugging a certain selection to a manager that he sat beside at this years Dublin v Kerry Semi final.

This is typical of the discussion and the interpolations being made.

Where is it claimed in the article that AOS contacted the manager about a team selection?

The article stated that AOS sent an email to management questioning the omission of player from the match day 26. 'That's questioning team selection in my book.'

Does your book state that a Gaelic football team has 26 players?

Anyway, tell us, who did Aiden O'Shea have picked for the drawn All-Ireland Final after his conversation during the semi-final?

I'm not going to get into an argument over the definition of the word 'team'. You can dress it up whatever way you like but the relevant email involved AOS questioning management's selections and to me that is crossing the line. You obviously don't see it that way so we'll have to disagree.

I never said that Aidan O Shea tried to have anyone picked in a conversation during the semi-final. I brought up the semi-final as I believe the fact that AOS sat beside SR at the match shows that they have a closer than normal player-manager relationship.

[If AOS was willing to contact a manager that he didn't particualry get on with about team selection,]

Although I'm someone who has always defended a player's right to question their management I can't agree with some of the criticism of H&C here. Amateur players have every right to expect to be led by competent management but likewise, that management have every right to respond to criticism, so those saying they've lost respect for H&C are bang out of order IMO. They waited for the right time to do this and are fully entitled to defend their reputation and record as the Mayo management.

In saying that, I think they were wrong to take the Mayo position in the circumstances they did as I believe you need players on your side from the get go and as they didn't have that they should have waited for another opportunity.

I am surprised by those saying it's no big deal for players to question selections though. I think players should question logistics, medical and training if they feel it is not up to scratch but team selection is a big no no. That's crossing a line IMO and is not simply adults discussing aspects of the team. If I was David Clarke and knew SOS was lobbying for his own clubman to have my position then where do you go? Do I go to management and tell them that I want SOS dropped as I don't like the timing of his runs as much as another midfielder? No, that's a line you can't allow be crossed. As long as the management are giving you a fair chance to win you place on the team then that's all you can expect.

If H&C weren't up to it then fair enough but I'm surprised that so many Mayo posters are dismissing most of what H&C are saying as I wouldn't like what I'm hearing about the players if I were them.

I'd agree with most of that. A lot of people here focusing on the wrong issues. Due to the shambolic appointment process, H and C were never going to be able to fully command the respect of the group. This is an essential for an intercounty team with genuine all-Ireland ambitions so they just had to go. Unfortunately, it could have been handled a lot better by all parties involved.

In my view, the recent interview did however reveal two very significant events. 1. Séamie O Shea requesting that Hennelly start the Galway game in 2015 and 2. Aidan O Shea questioning the omission of a player from the squad via email. Now some Mayo supporters may view these as minor incidents but I don't see it that way. While I'm aware that the old 'dictator' style of management wont cut it in the modern era, the reasons outlined above show why there has to be a line with regard to team selection.

Nobody except the people involved know the exact truth behind the Rob Hennelly decision in this years final. These two incidents do however give a certain amount of credence to the story we've all heard. If AOS was willing to contact a manager that he didn't particualry get on with about team selection, it's not a far stretch to suggest that he was plugging a certain selection to a manager that he sat beside at this years Dublin v Kerry Semi final.

This is typical of the discussion and the interpolations being made.

Where is it claimed in the article that AOS contacted the manager about a team selection?

The article stated that AOS sent an email to management questioning the omission of player from the match day 26. That's questioning team selection in my book.

Although I'm someone who has always defended a player's right to question their management I can't agree with some of the criticism of H&C here. Amateur players have every right to expect to be led by competent management but likewise, that management have every right to respond to criticism, so those saying they've lost respect for H&C are bang out of order IMO. They waited for the right time to do this and are fully entitled to defend their reputation and record as the Mayo management.

In saying that, I think they were wrong to take the Mayo position in the circumstances they did as I believe you need players on your side from the get go and as they didn't have that they should have waited for another opportunity.

I am surprised by those saying it's no big deal for players to question selections though. I think players should question logistics, medical and training if they feel it is not up to scratch but team selection is a big no no. That's crossing a line IMO and is not simply adults discussing aspects of the team. If I was David Clarke and knew SOS was lobbying for his own clubman to have my position then where do you go? Do I go to management and tell them that I want SOS dropped as I don't like the timing of his runs as much as another midfielder? No, that's a line you can't allow be crossed. As long as the management are giving you a fair chance to win you place on the team then that's all you can expect.

If H&C weren't up to it then fair enough but I'm surprised that so many Mayo posters are dismissing most of what H&C are saying as I wouldn't like what I'm hearing about the players if I were them.

I'd agree with most of that. A lot of people here focusing on the wrong issues. Due to the shambolic appointment process, H and C were never going to be able to fully command the respect of the group. This is an essential for an intercounty team with genuine all-Ireland ambitions so they just had to go. Unfortunately, it could have been handled a lot better by all parties involved.

In my view, the recent interview did however reveal two very significant events. 1. Séamie O Shea requesting that Hennelly start the Galway game in 2015 and 2. Aidan O Shea questioning the omission of a player from the squad via email. Now some Mayo supporters may view these as minor incidents but I don't see it that way. While I'm aware that the old 'dictator' style of management wont cut it in the modern era, the reasons outlined above show why there has to be a line with regard to team selection.

Nobody except the people involved know the exact truth behind the Rob Hennelly decision in this years final. These two incidents do however give a certain amount of credence to the story we've all heard. If AOS was willing to contact a manager that he didn't particualry get on with about team selection, it's not a far stretch to suggest that he was plugging a certain selection to a manager that he sat beside at this years Dublin v Kerry Semi final.

He wasn't 100% sure How could he have been 100% sure that Keegan's was a black? Most people who have watched it back a few times disagree. Nonsense...cover for letting himself be influenced.

[I'm not going to list Hennellys mistakes during big games down through the years but I'm sure Mayo lads can easily think of the majority of them. It's quite a long list for lads who don't know BTW.This history combined without having kicked a ball since May makes the decision a kamikaze one.He could have been flawless in training but repeated mistakes in big games shouldn't have been overlooked.]

At the start of the season the management would have picked their number 1 keeper. There is very little between them as shot stoppers, Clarke is probably better coming off his line, but Hennelly is a lot better with his kicks.

Hennelly was then dropped for a couple of bad kickout towards the end of the Galway game, one crucial kick led to the goal. I always felt this was very harsh and would undermine Hennelly's confidence.

Clarke was then put in. Clarke had some very good big moments in games, but made errors that he wasn't making in years past. In the drawn game he made some daft decisions and was very lucky to get away with them. He also kicked poorly.

Many of us were debating the keeper switch in the days between the two matches. Personally I felt that the switch was to late in the season, as it would be hard to know where Hennelly's form was after Beijing dropped and not having played, and that by undermining Clarke at this late stage of the season, we could go from to great keepers to two keepers badly out of form.

However, Rochford and the management had the benefit of seeing both players in training and were in a far better position to assess confidence, form, kickouts etc, than bullshit artists like Joe Brolly. 

It coulldn't have been anticipated that Hennelly would have his worst performance from the tee and generally, in his entire Mayo career.

So in my opinion the switch was no big surprise after Clarke's performance in the drawn game, but with hindsight we all know better now.

I'm not going to list Hennellys mistakes during big games down through the years but I'm sure Mayo lads can easily think of the majority of them. It's quite a long list for lads who don't know BTW.
This history combined without having kicked a ball since May makes the decision a kamikaze one.
He could have been flawless in training but repeated mistakes in big games shouldn't have been overlooked.

+ 1 Ballinaman.

The other thing that doesn't add up here is the fact that the world and its mother had heard about the change before it was announced. Compare it with Dillon being named to start against Tyrone, that came as surprise to most. If management wanted the Hennelly change to be in the public domain, then why bother announcing the earlier dummy team? It's strange IMO, especially when you consider how tight knit the group had been all year.

Does anybody know if repeat pairings are prevented in the quarter finals? e.g. Is it possible for Waterford and Clare to meet again in the quarters. I know repeat pairings were prevented for round 2 of the qualifiers but not sure after that.

[Saturday, July 30, 2016 - Monday, August 01, 2016:]

Saturday, July 30, 2016 - Monday, August 01, 2016:
Quarter-Final (A): Connacht Winner v Round 4A Winner
Quarter-Final (A): Munster Winner v Round 4A Winner

Saturday, August 06, 2016:
Quarter-Final (B): Leinster Winner v Round 4B Winner (Sky Sports)
Quarter-Final (B): Ulster Winner v Round 4B Winner (Sky Sports)

So yes, they could in theory be drawn again. I thought there was a 'previous pairings' condition, though that might disappear after the qualifying rounds?

The 'previous pairings' condition starts after round 2 of the qualifiers. It applies to round 3, round 4 and the quarter finals. 

A stat I heard before the Galway game is that we have never won a Saturday evening championship game.

Not true. We bate Cavan in a Saturday evening qualifier in Castlebar back in 07. Still, the Saturday record is definetly not great.