who are the potential candidates and wat difference will they bring in terms of personel and style of play!!!!
If Joe Kernan leaves
id say its between
Paul Grimley and John Rafferty.
Hope Grimley would give Cavan one more year,but if the job becomes available hed go for it.
Kernan has big influence in the county board, doubt Grimley will get it, too many of the players like him too much, that why Kernan did the dirty on him.
Grimley with McGeeney as his assistant would be the dream ticket but i doubt it will happen.
BTW everyone's assuming Kernan will step down. Why? I can't remember seeing any direct quote from him at any point saying that this was going to be his last year. The media yes, but not Kernan himself. The big question is whether the county board will make Joe's mind up for him?
rafferty would be a disaster.
brian mcalinden
Say what you like about Big Joe lads, but the bottom line is that over the past 10 years, between club and county football, almost every single team he has sent out has been 100% committed and extremely well organised. He might have his favourites and he might have his nuances, but that still puts him streets ahead of 99.9% of managers out there - as Armagh fans will find out when he does move along.
Personally, I'd love him in charge of Down...pity we couldn't afford him.
He should step down I think,but just to give the sons a chance to play for a different manager.I"d imagine they would be delighted too as I"d say they have to take some slagging about their Da getting them on the team.There are loads of other counties who would be glad to have him manage them
Peter forde is looking to get out of galway.
Can't remember where i read it (prob on this board somewhere) but someone said big Grimley with Marsden and McGeeney as his side kicks. That mighten be to bad, Grimley for the brains, McGeeney for the discipline and Marsden for the man management of the players and show them a few moves (f**k it i meant the money :D)
Wobbler, you'll find the majority of Armagh fans do appreciate what Kernan did and only for him we may well have had no All-Irelands, he certainly brought the X factor to both Crossmaglen and Armagh, but I'm sure you'll agree (with Pete McGrath in mind) that the Same Voice Syndrome can leave the thing a bit stale. I get the impression that players who would have run through a brick wall for him in 2002 wouldn't do it now. Puts the feats of Sean Boylan in perspective!!!
we got rid of John Morrison after us getting to an AI he is from Armagh i think he brought a skip to the 1st training session for players to get rid of emotional Garbage now i see why Kerry bet us ;) ;)
Wobbler - I think you're wrong there - In Ballybofey, I saw one of all the all time great defensive displays from Armagh, only for the goalie to let the side down -
Now consider this for a moment - had Paul Hearty NOT dropped the ball into his own net, Armagh would have gone to beat Tyrone in the Ulster semi final, would steamroll Monaghan in the Final and Joe Kernan would have been King of the Castle AGAIN - And all you Armagh supporters would have been going round the county slapping Joe on the back AGAIN !
orangeman you are right re hearty but the bottom line is that as a team we are too defensive, we only scored 9 scores in both games which are not enough to win champioship games
Quote from: Spiritof98 on July 09, 2007, 07:51:11 PM
Kernan has big influence in the county board, doubt Grimley will get it, too many of the players like him too much, that why Kernan did the dirty on him.
I'd love to know what the dirty is? - The only thing i've heard is that Grimley may/or may not have been in line to take over at one stage, & Big Joe never stepped aside!? Hardly did the dirty on him if this is the case!?
mackers - the biggest difference between Joe Kernan and Pete McGrath is that even when McGrath had a good team they occasionally got stuffed, and when he had a poor pick to choose from, they almost always got stuffed. Armagh may not have achieved their full worth over the past 5 years (although I would argue they have), but they have always been competitive, in every single game. Not many managers can lay a claim as strong as that.
mickey harte
I heard a rumour that Grimley and Kernan fell out over Grimley going behind Kernan's back and getting some players to, shall we say, employ tactics that Kernan did not approve off.
I heard that shortly after the whole incident from someone who would be close to one of the players and who I'd have no reason to doubt but I've never heard anyone else mention it.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on July 10, 2007, 01:58:39 PM
I heard a rumour that Grimley and Kernan fell out over Grimley going behind Kernan's back and getting some players to, shall we say, employ tactics that Kernan did not approve off.
I heard that shortly after the whole incident from someone who would be close to one of the players and who I'd have no reason to doubt but I've never heard anyone else mention it.
I think that might not be far away, the argument centred around the half forwards I believe.
i think the fact that there was a "gentleman`s agreement" for Joe to step down and let Paul take the reigns which was reneged on by Joe mightnt be too far off.
Grimley will fail with Armagh...not because he is not good enough...that we do not know yet, its is easy to be a great man with the players when your not the one who tells them they are off the team, or you dropped off the panel or has to bone players because they are not doing it...Grimley will not be successful in Armagh because they are on the slide and if he takes it he will get the blame.
quote]Grimley will not be successful in Armagh because they are on the slide and if he takes it he will get the blame.[/quote]
Well, that shouldn't be the case. Informed supporters will know when someone's getting the best out of the personnel available to them at any given time.
Paddy Heaney!
would make yous more hated than the Dubs and the Tyronies :D
Micko?
or
Hopefully Pillar Caffery will be looking for a job after sunday ;)
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on July 10, 2007, 07:50:23 PM
Micko?
or
Hopefully Pillar Caffery will be looking for a job after sunday ;)
All the Oil Money around the border couldn't afford Micko!
Mickey Harte ? The Tyrone one - not the Donegal one !
If we need a new manager, and I'm not sure we do, then of the options available within the county, I think, if possible, Grimley and McGeeney sounds like the best one. Would prefer those to John Rafferty I think. I know Rafferty's had a decent bit of success but I just don't think he'd it with Armagh. I suppose its possible that witha County Championship as Manager under his belt, Justin McNulty might be in the frame, at least as a selector.
What about the other Rafferty ? John Rafferty the Grange former under 21 manager ?
Peter Rafferty that is.
Would be a good option. But I'm of the opinion that Joe might not go.
I'm sure his profile as Armagh manager helps his business and I'd say that he wants to see through the development of his sons on the county team, including Paul Kernan and continue the rebuilding process, which he has managed reasonably well to date.
BTW, I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned Donal Murtagh.
I don't think he would have anywhere near the same ability as Joe to handle the media, as evidenced by his comments after the All-Ireland Club final, but given the fact that he dropped SK, you can be damn sure he's his own man.
To be honest lads i'm grateful for what JK has done but i think he should go, when you look back (with the exception of one or two players) he won Sam with Brian McAlinden's team. I think JK is brilliant at motivating players and getting the best out of them but for tactic's and the roles these playes have to play (not a half forward line that are 3 defenders) i think he lacks in that department. and if he seriously thinks his son Stephen should lead the line in our attack he is clearly biased or listening to his wife. Fair play to D Murtagh for droping him for that game as that took some balls and i'm sure Papa was not pleased
Quote from: illdecide on July 16, 2007, 01:19:39 PM
To be honest lads i'm grateful for what JK has done but i think he should go, when you look back (with the exception of one or two players) he won Sam with Brian McAlinden's team. I think JK is brilliant at motivating players and getting the best out of them but for tactic's and the roles these playes have to play (not a half forward line that are 3 defenders) i think he lacks in that department. and if he seriously thinks his son Stephen should lead the line in our attack he is clearly biased or listening to his wife. Fair play to D Murtagh for droping him for that game as that took some balls and i'm sure Papa was not pleased
[/b]
Rumour has it Big Jabba went to see Donal about it and was politely told were to go!
I think Armagh would benefit from a manager who is outside of the existing set up and outside of Crossmaglen ( no disrepsect to Cross )
armagh would benefit from a manager with the balls to make a change, or changes, that can react to wats needed on the field of play on ANY GIVEN SUNDAY
QuoteBTW, I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned Donal Murtagh.
I don't think he would have anywhere near the same ability as Joe to handle the media, as evidenced by his comments after the All-Ireland Club final, but given the fact that he dropped SK, you can be damn sure he's his own man.
What did he say after the club final that was so bad? I thought he was refreshingly honest.
Donal Murtagh seems to have a lot of the necessary attributes - a good reader of a game and quick to make changes where necessary
(and changes that usually work). There would be no favourites with him. I'd be happy to see him in charge. It may be a little soon for him at county level, but who knows.
Joe can't see the wood from the trees anymore. Too much attention is given to the detail in the preparation, but the football basics are being overlooked (i.e. effective tactics, team balance, the right personnel etc.). He has a lot to answer for, for not giving a chance in the championship to a few of the younger guys in the past 2 years, and Vernon and Forker especially this year. Some of these lads have been on the panel a couple of years now and still have to make their debuts. By the look of things he intends to stay on. If he had decided to go, he would have said so by now.
QuoteBy the look of things he intends to stay on. If he had decided to go, he would have said so by now.
Christ... :'(
QuoteWhat did he say after the club final that was so bad? I thought he was refreshingly honest.
Murtagh just couldn't cope with the Media, after the club final he was going on that they'd have a rest until the county final this year ::)
He's came across as bit of a bollocks (and he's not a bad fella) in some of his interviews before the game as well, talking about coasting the county championship and all that shite.
Armagh won't be needing a new manager
Quote from: Uladh on July 17, 2007, 11:17:44 AM
Armagh won't be needing a new manager
Why do you think that Uladh?
Quote from: pintsofguinness on July 16, 2007, 10:01:19 PM
Murtagh just couldn't cope with the Media, after the club final he was going on that they'd have a rest until the county final this year ::)
He is proving to be right though pog
Quote from: High Catch on July 17, 2007, 11:19:30 AM
Why do you think that Uladh?
Common knowledge round these parts HC. He's telling anyone who'll listen of his plans for building a new team and how the older players have been holding the team back.
Uladh it makes you wonder then why he didn't give a chance to more of the younger players in the 2 games then - was he a) afraid of offending the likes of McConville or b) didn't have enough faith in the younger players. If B, then he's contradicting himself. New players have been introduced at the back and midfield, but the forward lines have contained the same names (apart from SK) for a good few years now. We badly need new faces in the half forwards and full forwards.
Kernan's going nowhere.
Being county manager and having the profile that goes with it is too good for business. plus he has three more sons to get onto the team hich any prospective manager (other than patrica) aren't guaranteed to do. Jabba wouldn't have a future in the media if he were to leave so once he leaves or is booted out (yeah right), the profile he craves is gone.
Quote from: full back on July 17, 2007, 11:29:33 AM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on July 16, 2007, 10:01:19 PM
Murtagh just couldn't cope with the Media, after the club final he was going on that they'd have a rest until the county final this year ::)
He is proving to be right though pog
It doesn't matter if he's right or not full back, a bad winner is worse than a bad loser!
As for Joe staying...f**king hell...
also heard joe is staying, hopefully will have the good sense to make up with PG
naka id say there is very little chance of that happening.... And besides is PG not stayn on for at least another year at Cavan anyways?!
I hope for Armagh's sake that Joe packs it in - Jesus he'd be an awful glutton for punishment satying on this length of time - but maybe he enjoys it that much that would be prepared to stay on - if the older players retire, then maybe he could be effective as a manager going forward - but in my head, I always thought that this year would be it -
The longer he remains undecided would suggest that he is going to stay on ??
if he stay will he be done for verbal abuse of the referee "clown" -------could mean he'd miss 3 months of next season.
I don't think they'll do Joe for that - but I don't think he'd mind anyway - now if it were some other manager from a smaller county, they might be in trouble - I'd be surprised if they threw the book at him cos after all Joe was right - and the GAA know he's right which is worse !
Who's to say he's undecided? I can't recall him quoted at any stage saying that he planned to quit this year. The media did, but not Joe himself. The feeling among supporters seems to be for Paul Grimley to take over. But if it came down to a straight choice between Joe and John Rafferty how many would still want him to go? I'd suspect most in that case would prefer Joe to stay, despite the concerns about his ideas and team selection. The same voice syndrome that people are talking about wouldn't really be an issue if the senior players decide to quit - he would then be dealing with a lot of players who've only been around the panel a couple of years.
I'm convinced Joe will stay. There's no way he wants to go out after the 2 games we've had this year. Robbed by Donegal and a dodgy referring decision. He'll want another year to put his reputation back together and the County Board will give him it. If that happens we need Grimley working along side him with a view to taking over in a years time.
Quote from: SouthArmaghBandit on July 18, 2007, 10:24:11 AM
I'm convinced Joe will stay. There's no way he wants to go out after the 2 games we've had this year. Robbed by Donegal and a dodgy referring decision. He'll want another year to put his reputation back together and the County Board will give him it. If that happens we need Grimley working along side him with a view to taking over in a years time.
Or ruin his reputation to outsiders completely. from what i hear he has absolutely no credability left among the players anyway.
Hell would have to freeze over for those two to work together. there would need to be bouncers (big ones) in any room they were likely to be in at the same time....
They'll have to do it for the good of the county! Personally I think Joe should go now but I know he won't and the Board won't push him so we have to deal with reality.
To be competitive, any team needs to have their best players on the park. Sligo are a good example this year. This nonsense of cutting 5 or 6 of your best players to "give youth a chance" is utterly misguided. if the the younger players are good enough, they will force their way onto the team. Armagh's best players in Ballyboffey? McNulty, Mallon, McKeever, McGeeney, McGrane and Marsden. Best Players in Clones? McNulty, McGeeney & O'Rourke. i don't care what their ages are.
The wort possible thing to do with a group of young players is throw them in together and allow them to sink into the habit of losing. young players need to earn their place on the squad through the quality of their football and their application to the work required to make it. then they need to tae county football by the scruff of the neck and demand to be on the team through consistent peformance against county footballers. that is how top quality intercounty footballers emerge.
Armagh have already had their fingers burned by giving soft passage first onto the panel and then onto the team to players who have not maybe could never earn it in their own right. McKeever is a perfect example. Not a massively talented footballer from an unfashionable club. he earned his place on the senior panl through fantastic performances with the county u21s, where he also earned the captaincy amongst a host of talented footballers. he came onto the senior panel the rawest of rough diamonds and faced down obstruction and criticism from management. he worked meticulously on his game and two years later became a fixture on the team and probably Armagh's best all round defender.
this has not been the route of every player onto the team. by the same token, other younger players have wilted at the prospect of having to earn their promotion and drifted into mediocrity after losing confidence. those players probably will never have the mental fortitude to be top drawer county footballers. talent is all well and good but at that level, everyone has talent. 90% of the game now is in each players head.
I think OW has pretty much summed it up!
I can only think of one player who has had a very easy passage onto the team, although there are a lot of grumblings about the merit of a few others on the panel. i'd also argue that Joe has brought a couple of other younger players into the team befor they're ready to be seen to be "rebulding". that has caused friction in the panel and probably lost a couple of players through demotivation.
orchard warrior, thats the best post i have read in a long time, and has huge resonance in the down set up over the last 10 yrs too!
why isn't this discussion in the 'regular' gaa section? its not a local gaa mater and is of interest to everyone. i hope joe stays btw...
OW all those players you mention performed well over the 2 games. There were others however in the half forward and full forward lines who didn't and it begs the question why weren't a few of the guys on the bench (who happen to be quite young yes) given a chance to prove their worth in the heat of championship? I'm thinking particularly of guys like Vernon and Forker. These lads did very well for the u21s this year and Vernon was probably MOTM in the Harps championship game with Cross. Armagh weren't exactly overflowing with scoring options this year, or last year for that matter either. The only reason i can think of not introducing them, even for 15 mins, was based on how they were doing in training. Only someone connected to the team would be able to answer that one. From the outside looking in though it just looks very strange. IMO this year was a wasted opportunity to give a couple of these guys a taste of championship action.
I hate to have to break it to you but armagh is local in a national context
I'm surprised nobody on this thread is mentioning the rumour that Big Joe and McGeeney aren't on speaking terms and haven't been for some time.
I work in Armagh and at least 3 different Armagh supporters have told me that.
Surely one of them will have to go.
Common knowledge Sizzler.
QuoteI'm thinking particularly of guys like Vernon and Forker.
It's hard to know. Forker was good for the u21s but was poor when given his chance with the seniors. Vernon, although he'd be better than Kernan and P McKeever, I've never seen him live up to the reputation he's got himself. The same with Toal. (Granted I havent seen as much of either as some here). And we're getting desperate when we're suggesting playing someone at corner forward because he doesn't have the workrate for half forward!
Quotewhy isn't this discussion in the 'regular' gaa section? its not a local gaa mater and is of interest to everyone. i hope joe stays btw...
I'm sure you do.
From what ive heard, not only is joe and geezer not on speaking terms but a few of the bigger names on the panel including geezer have said that they will not play under joe again!
Just after speaking to a journalist friend and they told me that Joe Kernan has resigned.
Reliable Exile?
BBC version
Joe Kernan has resigned as Armagh manager in the wake of the Orchard team's exit from the championship.
Armagh won their first All-Ireland title in 2002 in Kernan's first year in charge and they lost out to Tyrone in the decider 12 months later.
The Crossmaglen man also guided Armagh to four Ulster SFC triumphs and a national league title in 2004.
Armagh were defeated by Donegal in the Ulster SFC before Derry beat Kernan's team in the All-Ireland qualifiers.
Whispers coming through if a major bust up at the executive meeting earlier this evening. strange development considering joe mor went to it seeking a further term.
I'm sure noone will doubt the great things that Joe has done for Armagh in the early stages of his management. His biggest contribution was to have the vision to create the conditions for a very talented group of players to flourish. McAlinden, for all his strengths, inhibited a lot of players and his regimented approach didn't allow the team to reach its potential. Joe provided the team with state of the art facilities, exposed them to new training approaches and brought Grimley in to fine tune the team's approach and persona.
Things probably started to go wrong in 2004 when the rest of the country caught up tactics wise and Armagh were unwilling to adapt. There would have been a feeling that the approach needed to change to enable the team to develop further but it was resisted on an ongoing basis.
Joe will always be remembered for bringing the holy grail and that is how it should be.
Don't want to use the tribute thread on the main page to have a debate so best to keep it here.
Bc, i understand your loyalty to your former club manager but blind faith will lead you up some very dark alleys.
Noone is doubting the great times Joe has brought to the county but the underachievement since cannot be ignored in some paltry attempt to avoid hurting the man's feelings. in my opinion, armagh's greatest ever collection of players have been largely wasted. Joe did a lot of things right but increasingly recently he did a lot of things wrong and confusingly. noone should have carte blanche over our county team, irrespective of past glories. players are judged on performance only (most of the time) and it should be no different for management.
The bottom line is that Joe lost the dressing room some time ago and last year's usurping of perceived players' ally Grimley was a misguided attempt to regain control. More informed football men in the county have increasingy realised that Joe was not taking the team in the right direction and as well as he did, Its after time for a change.
Armagh have probably been the most consistent team in Ireland sinse the turn of the millenium. They should have won more than one all ireland title. Although this period saw them capture an all aireland it could also be seen as a dissapointment that they didnt win more. But Joe will always be remembered as the man who brought them there first sam and should be remembered in a positive way.
BC from another thread...
QuoteAll you buzzards as rrhf so rightly called you can fcuk away off now and leave the man and his family alone. While there may not have been direct attacks on them Uladh with his "rumours" and "stories" always had a wee side story to every event and POG with his Blue and Gold Bridge glasses cannot see beyond Creggan Bridge.
Don't talk such shite, what have I ever said that a majority of armagh fans don't agree with?
That Joe should go?
That Stephen should not be on the county panel?
And as for your comment that people should "leave him and his family alone"....where the f**k did anyone say anything about this family other that Stephen is not a county player?
Get a grip of yourself.
POG, there has been constant sniping on the board here and in other places about how Joe is only in it to further his own family's interests, that he is only there to get all his sons playing, that nepotisnm rules his decision making.
Like all people he has made mistakes and he is the one who must deal with that, but to say that Armagh underachieved because of Joe is plainly wrong. In 2002 Armagh punched above their weight in my view. They got some lucky breaks throughout the campaign and Kerry took their foot off the peddle in the second half of the final. They were undoubtedly one of the most consistent teams of recent times, but we all got blinded by the single AI success and believed the media hype and our own delusions.
They could have won another AI and only for the Gormley block would have but I think they were at the highest level that they could have achieved. I don't buy into the whole bullshit that they should have won more. They could have but over the peiod of 6 years that Joe was manager they won more than any other Armagh team ever did and frankly I think they were lucky to win one AI.
I hope the new manager takes the players to this new level that everyone seems to think there is but I really think people are deluding themselves. I agree that it is time for change but to lay the blame for Armagh's "under-achievement" at Joe Kernan's door is simply wrong.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on July 19, 2007, 01:48:56 PM
They could have but over the peiod of 6 years that Joe was manager they won more than any other Armagh team ever did and frankly I think they were lucky to win one AI.
I hope the new manager takes the players to this new level that everyone seems to think there is but I really think people are deluding themselves. I agree that it is time for change but to lay the blame for Armagh's "under-achievement" at Joe Kernan's door is simply wrong.
This is a Gaa discussion board and we are only here to talk about football. do you think everyone is going to agree? you have said yourself Joe made mistakes but i think we will disagree the extent of the mistakes. Surely you don't expect that to go umentioned in this day and age?
Your opinion on armagh's potential is merited though not one i would agree with. Kernan won nothing on his own and he was blessed with the talent at his disposal. there is a huge element of supporters, and tellingly players, who believe that mismanagement has cost armagh a lot of championship matches in the last 3/4 years.
Uladh, of course we are here to discuss football and people will disagree. I have my loyalties and I will stand by them.
The reality is that Joe made decisions in crucial games which did not work out, such is the fate of a manager. There is an old adage, players win games, managers lose them. I think Joe has taken a lot of flak for his decisons which on their own had major influences on games. Of all the decisions he made which did not work out, I think taking McGeeney off against Tyrone was the most glaring.
Let's look though at the bigger picture.
In 2003 Armagh were within a last ditch block of winning an AI, coupled with a bad refereeing decision.
In 2004 they were beaten in a shock result against Fermanagh, complacency beat Armagh that day.
In 2005 Tyrone beat them and Joe must take some of the blame for that outcome. However, the players had the chance that day and did not close the game out.
I
n 2006 they were beaten by the best team in the last 20 years and you could see that the players were very tired. However, if Francie had not received the yellow card when he did things may have been different.
This year they went into the championship without the spine of the team. He played Stephen, against the opinion of many, yet he did ok. He played Oisin on the back of a very good year in his AI club success. Many he shouldn't have. He played Marsden who did not seem up to speed. He placed faith in big Paul which, in fairness, most managers would have. The forwards did not score enough and the changes could have been made, but players got their chance in the National League to prove they were up to it and by many accounts I have heard did not warrant playing. After all of this, a silly goalkeeping error and a bad refereeing decision means they are out!
This sort of situation is not the fault of the manager. In my view, Joe has made mistakes, and the players have made mistakes. It is time for some people to realise that Armagh is not the footballing dynasty that people believe it is. It is certainly in better shape than it was 15 years ago, but perspective is what is needed.
Like any sport, Its all about opinions
I could offer vastly differing analysis on his time than yours bc but we'll not agree with each other anyway.
Whilst you cannot exonerate the players and blame joe for every failing, neither can you lavish praise on joe an exempt him from criticism because armagh have achieved silverware in this era, when its patently obvious that he has been incredibly lucky with the players he inherited
Its time for a change
Let's have a look at the contenders for the next Armagh manager. This is going to be a hard job, as the man who gets it will have to deal with high expectations and he will have to introduce a number of new players, but this if can be achived and the right man could take Armagh back to the top.
Not in any order
1. Grimley, seems like he had alot of influence when Armagh done well, 2003 2004 etc. Knows the players etc. But rumurs of him drinking with players etc doesn't fill me with the optimism I would like
2. J.Rafferty Was there this year but don;t know if he is the man for the job, tactially and would the players respect him and look up to him enough. Something tells me no.
3. P. Rafferty Done very well with the Under 21's. Knows the young players well, and would not e afraid to use him. Downside is that he has never been involved with county management. Have doubts,
4. McGeeney. Think of him more of a man at the minute to come in as an assistant manager. Think it is too soon for him to be the manager.
All of these men have good points, but I just have a slight gut feeling that none of them would be really the man for the job. Maybe they would I don't know.
What about somebody high profile from the outside. There would be no favourism, and the players would certainly look up to him.
What do you's think? I haven't made up my mind yet!
Uladh, what happened at the meeting regarding the bust up?
There was no bust up at this meeting.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on July 19, 2007, 01:48:56 PM
POG, there has been constant sniping on the board here and in other places about how Joe is only in it to further his own family's interests, that he is only there to get all his sons playing, that nepotisnm rules his decision making.
Like all people he has made mistakes and he is the one who must deal with that, but to say that Armagh underachieved because of Joe is plainly wrong. In 2002 Armagh punched above their weight in my view. They got some lucky breaks throughout the campaign and Kerry took their foot off the peddle in the second half of the final. They were undoubtedly one of the most consistent teams of recent times, but we all got blinded by the single AI success and believed the media hype and our own delusions.
They could have won another AI and only for the Gormley block would have but I think they were at the highest level that they could have achieved. I don't buy into the whole bullshit that they should have won more. They could have but over the peiod of 6 years that Joe was manager they won more than any other Armagh team ever did and frankly I think they were lucky to win one AI.
I hope the new manager takes the players to this new level that everyone seems to think there is but I really think people are deluding themselves. I agree that it is time for change but to lay the blame for Armagh's "under-achievement" at Joe Kernan's door is simply wrong.
BC I asked you two questions, basically wondering why you choose to have a dig at me and you didn't answer them.
And something about me having blue and yellow glasses, what's that got to do with anything? Take the black and amber ones off you!
If the reason often quoted on this site why Paul Grimley stepped down last year is true then how do you think he feels if he happened to read the Daily Mirror today?
Joe is apparently quoted as saying:
" I had my mind made up last year to go. But when Paul stepped down there was nobody there and the team was still in transition".
Mickey Moran would go well with armagh, dont ya think? :-*
Thats the cheek of Joe that I did not like, would not be the first time he lied to the media.
Big Paul & Geezer??
I'm not sure wholesale changes are required. Maybe a different decision maker at the helm...
Big Paul for the tactics & Geezer for the motivation & continued dedication??
I hope there isn't wholesale changes, as I'm not sure there is enough class replacements within our club scene that will be able to fill some of the rather large boots that are rumoured to be vacated!
Would Pat Spillane be interested ;D
Its been mentioned on another thread that the clubs will be able to nominate candidates... how would that work in practice and at the end of the day who makes the decisions here? Paddy og and Peadar Murray i assume?
Of the obvious candidates, i don't think John rafferty has the smarts for the job and from what i understand neither has he the respect internally. Peter McDonald has a long etablished pedigree and probably knows the talent and potential within the county better than anyone. In my opinion, the obvious combination of Grimley and McGeeney would work best. they know the setup best and probably understand the weaknesses better than anyone and as a pair would bring a lot of qualities to the table. Is there anyone else? externally, would someone like McHugh be interested?
would mchugh be good enough, 1997 was a long time, ago football has changed since his time with Cavan, do we really want someone who has never had the balls to take his own county, to come and make a f**k up here with us, id much prefer someone whos heart was in it for the right reasons from inside the county i think grimley and mcdonnell togather would be a fantastic combination, both men are very driven, with grimley havin well everyone now nos wat his importance to armagh was, and peter mcdonnell is very intelligent and meticulous in his planning and preparation and has guided errigical ciaran to an ulster final appearance and managing this years U21s to an all ireland semi. both men are fantastic trainers aswell imo its the complete package.
As I've said before none of the 4 potential candidates fill me with any great confidence, the clamour for Grimley in Armagh city is deafening, but I wouldn't be so sure, his martyrdom after he 'left' has unduly influenced some people's opinions of him. I'd go for potential of a McDonnell/McGeeney set up as the best option, although I'm don't know how good their personal relationship is.
McDonnell and McGeeney obviously had a close working relationship when he was with Mullaghbawn but I don't know if they have recent contact. Peter is a very shrewd operator and would be my first choice of them all but I would have reservations about having McGeeney in there as well. He is very close to the current panel and sometimes that can make difficult decisions hard. I know Donal Murtagh did it well with Cross but I think that is the exception rather than the rule.
Peter McDonnell, with a good fitness coach and back room team would be the best option, keep Geezer on the panel, and if he is fit he plays, if not he can be the motivator anyway without being part of the management team.
BTW POG I am not having a dig at you individually, I just feel you have an axe to grind over the whole Stephen issue and I feel sometimes you go too far. Yes, I have my loyalties but I can see that Joe has done more good for Armagh than bad and many of the issues that he has received blame for are not necessarily his fault. For instance, up to this year has Stephen had any sustained period of championship play for Armagh? I don't know how much game time he has had but it would not be that much.
None of the prospective candidates fill me with confidence either. I don't know where the notion of McGeeney's involvement has come from, but it reminds me of Anthony Daly's management of Clare. Not necessarily a good idea and probably no grounds for it either
think McGeeney should stick to playin, if fit. he would stil be too close to the players at this stage, who from outside the county would u prefer bennydorano as none of the candidates from inside the county fill u with confidence
Sit down before you read this....
Three seperate, well connecte people have told me this very day that the county board are keen to have McAlinden back involved in some capacity
need there head tested, mcalinden wat a joke, from wat iv heard mcgeeney used to stay behind after the two brians sessions because they were not hard enough
Quote from: Uladh on July 20, 2007, 01:11:19 PM
Sit down before you read this....
Three seperate, well connecte people have told me this very day that the county board are keen to have McAlinden back involved in some capacity
f**k off uladh! That's not funny!
Bc haven't time to answer you now but I will later (always time to tell uladh to f**k off.)
Dosent matter who Armagh appoint - the bitchiest supporters in Ireland will soon bring them down.
allow me to butt into an armagh thread, but i have heard that mcgeeney and marsden will form part of a new mgt team, with geezer as numero uno. i have also heard that a number of senior players threatened not to play next year. is there any truth that if geezer takes over that the macs plus aidan o'rourke will be straight back into the panel??
Quote from: goldenyears on July 20, 2007, 02:00:17 PM
allow me to butt into an armagh thread, but i have heard that mcgeeney and marsden will form part of a new mgt team, with geezer as numero uno. i have also heard that a number of senior players threatened not to play next year. is there any truth that if geezer takes over that the macs plus aidan o'rourke will be straight back into the panel??
Strong runours around Tyrone is that McGeeney will take over and Aidan O'rourke will be straight back in. word that oisin will not be available also!
Quote from: topgun on July 20, 2007, 01:11:06 PM
think McGeeney should stick to playin, if fit. he would stil be too close to the players at this stage, who from outside the county would u prefer bennydorano as none of the candidates from inside the county fill u with confidence
Can't honestly think of anyone, wouldn't want McHugh, reckon he's full of sh1te. Charlie Mulgrew maybe, wouldn't be the worst choice in the world. If I'd the choice of anyone in the country I'd take O'Mahoney, but it's not going to happen.
I have been hearing its looking John Rafferty for the job with support from McAlinden, hope not to be honest, with McCloskey now gone I can see the professional levels of training instigiated under big joe being maintained
What about Colm McKinstry ;) ;) :D :D
What about the Beefer Morrison? In what regard is held in Armagh footballing circles? I know the majority of the rest of the country thinks he is a nut case.
DAVID "THATS NOT EVEN FUNNY"
tHE COUNTY BOARD NEED TO BE SENSIBLE AND CONSIDER THEIR OPTIONS,WHAT WE NEED IS A 3 YEAR PLAN WITH STRUCTURES IN PLACE TO INTEGRATE THE OLD WITH THE NEW, PETER MC DONNELL OR MG GEENEY AND GRIMLEY ARE THE BEST OPTIONS AVAILABLE
In management I think you need to appoint a manager and then let HIM decide on his team - let the manager decide who HE wants as trainer etc etc. By imposing selectors etc it can create difficulties.
Grimley as manager with McDonald as the right hand man and McGeeney as player coach looks like the best option to me.
You have saved the county board some time and effort by coming up with that one.
Maybe i am the county board?
In that case get off yer arse and sort out a respectable county ground. Golden eras over and theres no county ground in Armagh. FAI esque.
QuoteIn that case get off yer arse and sort out a respectable county ground. Golden eras over and theres no county ground in Armagh. FAI esque
Nonsense, the last thing Ulster needs is another 20,000 - 30,000 ground costing millions of the Associations money to be fully utilised once every couple of years.
On the manager - I agree with Uladh, the obvious option is the best one in this situation.
BC
QuoteBTW POG I am not having a dig at you individually, I just feel you have an axe to grind over the whole Stephen issue and I feel sometimes you go too far. Yes, I have my loyalties but I can see that Joe has done more good for Armagh than bad and many of the issues that he has received blame for are not necessarily his fault. For instance, up to this year has Stephen had any sustained period of championship play for Armagh? I don't know how much game time he has had but it would not be that much.
Like most in the county BC I don't understand why Stephen has been given so many chances and was on a championship team when he's struggling to make his own club team. What does it matter how much championship time he's had? Several players Joe has brought onto the panel can only dream of being given a decent chance in the league and you're talking about Stephen's championship time when he's played in several (if not most) league games and has never impressed. What's the reason for his inclusion bc other than the fact that Joe is putting his son before the county?
QuoteSeveral players Joe has brought onto the panel can only dream of being given a decent chance in the league and you're talking about Stephen's championship time when he's played in several (if not most) league games and has never impressed. What's the reason for his inclusion bc other than the fact that Joe is putting his son before the county?
Pints,
How many league games did Stephen Kernan play in? I cannot recollect even one. Perhaps you could state the games you allege he has played in.
QuotePints,
How many league games did Stephen Kernan play in? I cannot recollect even one. Perhaps you could state the games you allege he has played in
He definately played quite a few league games in 2006. Got much more of a chance than, for example Liam O'Hare who was also on the panel and is a much more talented footballer. During the 2007 NFL, Stephen Kernan was on the Cross panel. Did he play against Westmeath?
Quote from: Armagh Exile on July 21, 2007, 07:37:19 PM
QuoteSeveral players Joe has brought onto the panel can only dream of being given a decent chance in the league and you're talking about Stephen's championship time when he's played in several (if not most) league games and has never impressed. What's the reason for his inclusion bc other than the fact that Joe is putting his son before the county?
Pints,
How many league games did Stephen Kernan play in? I cannot recollect even one. Perhaps you could state the games you allege he has played in.
He played in several of the league games of 2006. It was a subject of discussion on this board at the time.
I think it is clear that the position will probably come down to four men, i.e. Paul Grimley, Peter McDonnell, Peter Rafferty and John Rafferty. I have put them in the order of my own preferences.
I would have to say as regards Paul Grimley that he is quite simply the best manager that I ever had. I think I have mentioned it elsewhere, but the man is intelligent, innovative, shrewd, ruthless, a great man manager and motivator and someone who can and will call a spade a spade. From what I can gather, he also has a lot of loyalty in the dressing room.
Peter McDonnell is also someone with a great reputation, and anyone that I have spoken to who has been managed by him has nothing but the highest praise. Peter Rafferty, I have been told via Grange sources, is not interested. John Rafferty to my mind is too inexperienced, is a peer of some of the older players, and I would guess (as mentioned somewhere else) would not have the respect of the dressing room.
My own dream team would be Big Paul with Geezer in some role as second in command, as I believe his drive and discipline would be essential to keeping the highest possible standards of application amongst what is a relatively young squad. I would have absolutely no objection though to Peter McDonnell being in there along with those two.
My fear though would be John Rafferty getting the job, on the basis that he was brought in last year as some sort of apprentice. John was a great servant to the County, and could yet be a future manager. I don't think though that the time is now!
You can't manage and play ! The two don't go together - so no to Mc Geeney as player / coach / manager / selector -
SK played in all 3 national league games which followed the all ireland club final this year. he also featured (mostly through starting) in all seven league games in 2006.
My management dream team would be:
- Bennydorano (for tactics)
- Uladh (for disicpline)
- Stew (for fitness)
- Pintofguinness (for diet)
- Brokencrossbar (for maximising players rights)
- Orior (for entertainng the WAGs)
Holy f**k!
McAlinden linked with Armagh return
27 July 2007
Brian McAlinden has refused to rule himself out of the running for a return to the Armagh managerial hot-seat.
McAlinden and Brian Canavan led the Orchard County to back-to-back Ulster SFC title wins in 1999 and 2000 before handing over the reins to Joe Kernan at the end of 2001. The "Two Brians" are credited with laying the foundations for Armagh's subsequent success, but McAlinden would have a battle on his hands to return as manager with former selectors Paul Grimley and John Rafferty believed to be the two frontrunners for the post.
When asked if he'd be interested in returning, McAlinden simply said: "Never say never."
He added: "I said I would never manage anyone other than my own club or county. There are lot of big names in for it."
McAlinden aside, nothing's going to happen without the inclusion of McGeeney somewhere by the looks of it. Any player/ex-player having too much clout cannot be a good thing.
Sean McGoldrick...
Quote from: SouthArmaghBandit on July 27, 2007, 04:00:30 PM
Holy f**k!
McAlinden linked with Armagh return
27 July 2007
Brian McAlinden has refused to rule himself out of the running for a return to the Armagh managerial hot-seat.
McAlinden and Brian Canavan led the Orchard County to back-to-back Ulster SFC title wins in 1999 and 2000 before handing over the reins to Joe Kernan at the end of 2001. The "Two Brians" are credited with laying the foundations for Armagh's subsequent success, but McAlinden would have a battle on his hands to return as manager with former selectors Paul Grimley and John Rafferty believed to be the two frontrunners for the post.
When asked if he'd be interested in returning, McAlinden simply said: "Never say never."
He added: "I said I would never manage anyone other than my own club or county. There are lot of big names in for it."
you heard it here first....
Quote from: Uladh on July 20, 2007, 01:11:19 PM
Sit down before you read this....
Three seperate, well connecte people have told me this very day that the county board are keen to have McAlinden back involved in some capacity
What's wrong with Brian Mc Alinden ? I think he's a grand fella - don't know much about his managerial ability all the same. But I think he will be up against it to get back in again.
Agreed. The two Brians got Armagh to 2 semi-finals, in the days before the back-door system. They would have got further except they didnt get the lucky breaks that Joe got.
I can't see a big player from outside the county being involved, but Jack O'Connor would be interesting!
Am I the only one who thinks we should be getting a manager in as quickly as possible (not rushing it mind you) so that they can start looking round at whats available within the county?
I've been hearing from a girl i work beside and she's a Donegal woman that Brian McIver resigned from donegal because he is looking the Armagh job....
A Tyrone man managing Armagh :'( :'(
Big paul grimley is the man for the job, he has played for the county and obviously been a powerful influence on many panelists over the past 5 years or so and he is never afraid to let people know where they stand with him. Paul will have a plan B and indeed a plan for every contingency, that was lost on big Joe at times. I hope Paul Grimley is our new man.
As for geezer, down the road I would be all for that but not yet.
QuoteI've been hearing from a girl i work beside and she's a Donegal woman that Brian McIver resigned from donegal because he is looking the Armagh job...
as if Donegal being beaten by Monaghan by 8 points wasn't enough reason to resign!
Pints, on the Stephen Kernan subject, who were the alternatives you would have started at centre-half forward in either game this year?
By the sounds of things Mc Ivor is ruled out for the Armagh job and every other job as well involving county teams !
Quote from: bigpaul on July 30, 2007, 10:49:26 PM
Pints, on the Stephen Kernan subject, who were the alternatives you would have started at centre-half forward in either game this year?
James Lavery
Paedar Toal
Nippy Swift
Charlie Vernon
Phillip Loughran
Miceal O'Rourke
Liam O'Hare
Mal Mackin
Stefan Forker
John McEntee
Tony McEntee
Martin Ahern
John Murtagh
Mickey McNamee
Gregory Loughran
Colm Watters
Bumpy O'Hagan
Jimmy Smith
Mark Harte
Uladh, I know some of the names mentioned are tongue in cheek but some of the alternatives you have offered wouldnt be as good as Stephen Kernan
Every one of them would win more 50 50 ball.
Interviews for the new manager to be completed this week....
even though it has already been offered to someone!!! :D
Who?
Quote from: Uladh on July 31, 2007, 09:18:49 AM
James Lavery
Paedar Toal
Nippy Swift
Charlie Vernon
Phillip Loughran
Miceal O'Rourke
Liam O'Hare
Mal Mackin
Stefan Forker
John McEntee
Tony McEntee
Martin Ahern
John Murtagh
Mickey McNamee
Gregory Loughran
Colm Watters
Bumpy O'Hagan
Jimmy Smith
Mark Harte
You forgot about Ronan Austin
fill us in Uladh??
paul grimley has at least 20 club nominations. i was talking to silverbridge clubman and he confirms this.(sec)
well the interviews with the county board have started so hopefully it will be sorted out in the not to distant future!
Uladh, are you not goin to tell us who it was offered to then?
Well the county board have asked one of the candidates to put together their backroom team in advance and have offered their current county job to someone else. there's only one candidate already working for the county board...
Its a done deal and the inteviews are a sham. former harps manager peter McDonald will be the new manager.
Dont know to much about yer man mcdonald/mcdonnell... wheres he from? would he have any experience at this level?
Is he the one that locked the boys out of the grounds for turning up late for training?
interviews finished last night by all accounts. can't take them too long to make up their minds!
;)
If Peter has been appointed as the new manager I think it is a very good move. He has a large amount of experience and has success at both club and county level with the Armagh u 21's. He is a very clever man in regards to tactics and if he has the right team of ones around him he will be a success.
I know Paul Grimley is many peoples favourite but I think Peter would be a safe pair of hands.
I thought Peter declared he was not interested.
any word yet?
Quote from: the Deel Rover on July 10, 2007, 10:52:18 AM
we got rid of John Morrison after us getting to an AI he is from Armagh i think he brought a skip to the 1st training session for players to get rid of emotional Garbage now i see why Kerry bet us ;) ;)
How did you get on this year after getting rid of John Morrison?
Are you JM in disguise MrTaylor?
i work in armagh and its spreading like wild fire that grimley turned it down to stay wid cavan to "finish the job he started" with them and yer man mc donnell has taken it with a backroom team that includes morrison and rafferty i have heard it from three different sources. came on here to see if any of you boys knew anything about it. i thought grimley was a cert?
Quote from: full back on August 09, 2007, 02:29:11 PM
Are you JM in disguise MrTaylor?
No, Fullback, but unfortunately I'm told I look like him!
Quote from: billy the kid on August 09, 2007, 02:31:23 PM
i work in armagh and its spreading like wild fire that grimley turned it down to stay wid cavan to "finish the job he started" with them and yer man mc donnell has taken it with a backroom team that includes morrison and rafferty i have heard it from three different sources. came on here to see if any of you boys knew anything about it. i thought grimley was a cert?
Which Rafferty?
Quote from: MrTaylor on August 09, 2007, 02:43:00 PM
Quote from: full back on August 09, 2007, 02:29:11 PM
Are you JM in disguise MrTaylor?
No, Fullback, but unfortunately I'm told I look like him!
paddy, how's it going? :P
peter rafferty! is there any truth in this just received an e-mail from a supplier in monaghan who says morrison and mcdonnell but no mention of rafferty with him.
have to say lurgan blue your little picture (carlton from da fresh prince) is by far the best ive seen yet!!!
is there any news on this
The interviews were early last week bu they can't make decision until gene duffy comes home from a trip to the states... even though he wasn't involved in the interviews!
no prizes for guessing who'll make the decision then
thanks uladh, was grimley interviewed
Grimley, rafferty, McDonnell and McConville i believe. those were the four nominated by the clubs
Packie Mc Conville?
Yes. nominated by Cross i presume?
Which Rafferty was nominated?
lurgan mail has an interview with joh rafferty in which he says he doesnt want the job which sounds strange if he was interviewed for same
straight fight between mc donnell and grimley
Rafferty confirms he's not interested in Armagh job
John Rafferty, who spent the 2007 season as assistant manager to Joe Kernan, has told the 'Mail' that he is "not interested" in the vacant Armagh job.
Rafferty who was a committed defender for many years with Armagh would be remembered in particular for his head to head battle's with Down's James McCartan. He brought Belfast side St Gall's to an All Ireland Club Final last season but the then Antrim champions lost narrowly to Salthill.
John said "To be honest, with a young family to attend to and an increasing workload at school (Abbey CBS Newry) I would find it very difficult to give any form of commitment to the Armagh set up. I was more than glad to have been involved with Joe (Kernan) this year. Things didn't go exactly how we planned but I would suggest that a new manager would still have a lot of good players around to select from".
"Despite some speculation I was never going to run for the Armagh job. I don't know whether or not I would pop up with a club somewhere down the line but all of that would be decisions for after Christmas".
With John Rafferty and former Under 21 boss Peter Rafferty both ruled out it now looks likely that either Paul Grimley or current under 21 manager Peter McDonnell would be installed as Armagh boss.
Grimley it is believed is popular with the more experienced members of the squad, while McDonnell would carry more weight for the under 21s who are attempting to make a breakthrough.
The week the 'Mail' spoke to Armagh Board chairman Kevein Brady who said "The nominations are now in place and an announcement will be made in the coming weeks. That's all I can say on the subject at the moment".
Eugene Creaney, 'Lurgan Mail', 16 August 2007
I thought Rafferty was teaching in Bessbrook now.
What's Grimley's position with Cavan ?
Quote from: orangeman on August 17, 2007, 05:08:24 PM
What's Grimley's position with Cavan ?
on loan from Armagh
hope he comes back and takes the reins with Geezer by his side helping out with the lads
Grimley is a no nonsense coach who has the respect of the squad and he had many's a battle with big Joe over selection and is his own man and I believe is the right man to take over from Joe.
Paul is a proven winner at the highest level and will add different tactical dimesnsions that have been missing in recent years and if he had the clout that the top managerial position offers I have no doubt he will bring us back to the top.
Grimley's position with Cavan involves the figure 4 twice ! The first 4 is for 4 wheels and the second is stg/euro 4((add the 0's) and this would indicate he'll not be Armagh's next manager
Four fourks sake, its no four gone conclusion, four he maybe back befour you can count four quality cavan county players
Thats, f(our)airly funny.
was talking to a member of the panel and the county boys seem to think its a faregone conclusion that mc donnell will be the next manager.Rafferty was interviewed but saw the writing on the wall with the way that the committee were answering his questions, grimley is too much like joe in that the county committee want more say so / control on whats happening etc and grimbo would not want that level if interference.
l
...Grimley has resigned from his Cavan post!
well, it's official,
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/6958251.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/6958251.stm)
looks like Paul is going for the job!!!
Was speaking with McDonnell last week, says he happy staying with the u-21s. Glad to see that Grimley is going to get a run at it.
http://www.gaa.ie/plugins/newsfeed.cgi?rm=content&plugin_data_id=19932
Gormley quits Breffni, eyes Armagh job
Aug 22, 2007
Former Cavan number two Paul Grimley has vacated his position with the Breffni county in the hope of taking over the Armagh football reins from Joe Kernan.
Grimley who was assistant to Kernan for five years was an integral part of the Armagh backroom team in their All-Ireland winning season in 2002. He was also collected four Ulster crowns and a National League title with Kernan and Armagh while he was involved with them.
The Armagh Harps clubman left the Armagh set up in 2006 and became Donal Keoghan's assistant in Cavan but he has now left that position.
It is understood that the Armagh County Board have interviewed four people since Big Joe's resignation. Grimley is among these, along with Kernan's most recent number two, John Rafferty, ex-Crossmaglen boss Michael McConville and former U-21 boss, Peter McDonnell.
GAA site have Gormley leaving Cavan and not Grimley.
Quote from: never kickt a ball on August 22, 2007, 09:53:33 PM
http://www.gaa.ie/plugins/newsfeed.cgi?rm=content&plugin_data_id=19932
Gormley quits Breffni, eyes Armagh job
Aug 22, 2007
Former Cavan number two Paul Grimley has vacated his position with the Breffni county in the hope of taking over the Armagh football reins from Joe Kernan.
Grimley who was assistant to Kernan for five years was an integral part of the Armagh backroom team in their All-Ireland winning season in 2002. He was also collected four Ulster crowns and a National League title with Kernan and Armagh while he was involved with them.
The Armagh Harps clubman left the Armagh set up in 2006 and became Donal Keoghan's assistant in Cavan but he has now left that position.
It is understood that the Armagh County Board have interviewed four people since Big Joe's resignation. Grimley is among these, along with Kernan's most recent number two, John Rafferty, ex-Crossmaglen boss Michael McConville and former U-21 boss, Peter McDonnell.
GAA site have Gormley leaving Cavan and not Grimley.
Quote from: never kickt a ball on August 22, 2007, 09:53:33 PM
http://www.gaa.ie/plugins/newsfeed.cgi?rm=content&plugin_data_id=19932
Gormley quits Breffni, eyes Armagh job
Aug 22, 2007
Former Cavan number two Paul Grimley has vacated his position with the Breffni county in the hope of taking over the Armagh football reins from Joe Kernan.
Grimley who was assistant to Kernan for five years was an integral part of the Armagh backroom team in their All-Ireland winning season in 2002. He was also collected four Ulster crowns and a National League title with Kernan and Armagh while he was involved with them.
The Armagh Harps clubman left the Armagh set up in 2006 and became Donal Keoghan's assistant in Cavan but he has now left that position.
It is understood that the Armagh County Board have interviewed four people since Big Joe's resignation. Grimley is among these, along with Kernan's most recent number two, John Rafferty, ex-Crossmaglen boss Michael McConville and former U-21 boss, Peter McDonnell.
GAA site have Gormley leaving Cavan and not Grimley.
Dont think so
Pearse Og?
Quote from: Orior on August 23, 2007, 10:45:46 PM
Pearse Og?
yep Paul played for the harps spin offs, while Mark and John played for the first 15
I believe Paul played at underage for the Harps before taking the soup.
Quote from: bennydorano on August 24, 2007, 09:52:35 AM
I believe Paul played at underage for the Harps before taking the soup.
Heard that alright Benny. Imagine if we had him and hoolie late 80s early 90s. They would have took some beating.
Quote from: maddog on August 24, 2007, 10:00:54 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on August 24, 2007, 09:52:35 AM
I believe Paul played at underage for the Harps before taking the soup.
Heard that alright Benny. Imagine if we had him and hoolie late 80s early 90s. They would have took some beating.
Why would they have had houlie?
I could swear grimley said in an interview I read that he didn't take up football until his teenage years and went to the ogs because all his mates played for them.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 24, 2007, 12:28:53 PM
Quote from: maddog on August 24, 2007, 10:00:54 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on August 24, 2007, 09:52:35 AM
I believe Paul played at underage for the Harps before taking the soup.
Heard that alright Benny. Imagine if we had him and hoolie late 80s early 90s. They would have took some beating.
Why would they have had houlie?
I could swear grimley said in an interview I read that he didn't take up football until his teenage years and went to the ogs because all his mates played for them.
tradionally Pints the Ogs players were drawn from the other side of the city, i.e the area from the shambles towards the athletic grounds. Harps the other side and particularly around Banbrook, Drumbreda and Longstone which are all towards the north of the town (moy road end) although there were exceptions like the posh lads from the folly and that ;)
Hoolie lived and grew up in Drumbreda not a good boot of a ball from my old house and from Abbey Park but for whatever reason ( i believe his father is Ogs through and through) he opted to play for them. Had the harps had hoolie and big paul grimley in those days they would have taken some stopping.
From what i had heard, Paul couldn't get a game with the Harps at (neither Mark or John made any impact until minor as well) so he joined the Ogs.
Houlie's da is an avid Ogs man allright, but he played for both the Harps and Ogs, and I'm nearly certain that he told me the last game that he ever played as a goalie was for the Harps.
Quote from: maddog on August 24, 2007, 12:37:07 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 24, 2007, 12:28:53 PM
Quote from: maddog on August 24, 2007, 10:00:54 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on August 24, 2007, 09:52:35 AM
I believe Paul played at underage for the Harps before taking the soup.
Heard that alright Benny. Imagine if we had him and hoolie late 80s early 90s. They would have took some beating.
Why would they have had houlie?
I could swear grimley said in an interview I read that he didn't take up football until his teenage years and went to the ogs because all his mates played for them.
tradionally Pints the Ogs players were drawn from the other side of the city, i.e the area from the shambles towards the athletic grounds. Harps the other side and particularly around Banbrook, Drumbreda and Longstone which are all towards the north of the town (moy road end) although there were exceptions like the posh lads from the folly and that ;)
Hoolie lived and grew up in Drumbreda not a good boot of a ball from my old house and from Abbey Park but for whatever reason ( i believe his father is Ogs through and through) he opted to play for them. Had the harps had hoolie and big paul grimley in those days they would have taken some stopping.
Alright Maddog I'll give it to you, yous were unlucky not to have the pair.
It's funny how things work out and I'd imagine there was some craic in the Grimley house at times...
Quote
Houlie's da is an avid Ogs man allright, but he played for both the Harps and Ogs, and I'm nearly certain that he told me the last game that he ever played as a goalie was for the Harps.
Didn't he play for the county as well, back in the day! or am I making that up?
I'd say TYP is old enough to remember....
Quote from: Take Your Points on August 24, 2007, 08:59:40 PM
Quote from: maddog on August 24, 2007, 12:37:07 PM
tradionally Pints the Ogs players were drawn from the other side of the city, i.e the area from the shambles towards the athletic grounds. Harps the other side and particularly around Banbrook, Drumbreda and Longstone which are all towards the north of the town (moy road end) although there were exceptions like the posh lads from the folly and that ;)
Hoolie lived and grew up in Drumbreda not a good boot of a ball from my old house and from Abbey Park but for whatever reason ( i believe his father is Ogs through and through) he opted to play for them. Had the harps had hoolie and big paul grimley in those days they would have taken some stopping.
A few others come to mind, what about the Gordons and McAleavey from Desert Lane, Cullens from Banbrook in 80's?
BTW didn't that being from the Folly made you posh, I thought you had to be from Ashley or the Newry Road.
Alright lads, this is all getting a bit close for comfort. :-\
Gerard Houlie always described himself as a Pearse Og player and a Harps supporter. Houlie grew up in our end of the City alright, and his mates would all have been Harps, i.e. Barry Ryan, the McCoys, Dizz, Jack O'Hare etc. Indeed, when there was a darts league running in the City in the late eighties, Houlie threw for the Harps.
Good call by the way POG on Joe H, or 'The Cat' as he prefers to be known! He did indeed play for the County - or at least that is what he tells me!! ;D
Posh end of the City! That has to be Tullysaran
Are you posh rufus?
Come to think of it...I remember someone (goes by the name of a food) telling me that you were really an ogs man ;D
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 25, 2007, 02:23:16 PM
Are you posh rufus?
Come to think of it...I remember someone (goes by the name of a food) telling me that you were really an ogs man ;D
And this was'nt me rufus ;)
Joe 'The Cat' indeed played for the county minors that won the 1961 ulster minor c'ship
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 25, 2007, 02:23:16 PM
Are you posh rufus?
Come to think of it...I remember someone (goes by the name of a food) telling me that you were really an ogs man ;D
Now don't be at it Pints! ;D
I did indeed grow up in the Newry Road area - but no way was I posh. Just ask our gardener or chauffer - either of them will tell you!
And as for being an Ogs man!?! :o
Joe Houlie did play for Armagh and he also played for the Harps and then went to the Ogs where his two sons played football even though they grew up beside Abbey Park.
Gerard played both darts and snooker for the Harps and he was very friedly with the McCoys and Finbar Ryan and a host of other harps heads and Gerard has a lot of time for the harps unlike that Ogs bigot paul, his brother who begrudges the Harps every win the fecker.
As for pog spoofing on Rufus T being an Ogs man......................... I would never say something like that about a Harps legend like Rufus. ;D
paul houlie is meeting me in florida for a holiday in November and he will be bringing tapes of the County Finals the Ogs and Harps played in during the eighties and nineties and I will be getting them converted onto DVD although there is one horror finale where the ogs scored about five points and bate us.....................That sucked and i probably wont watch that one, me aul mate Flea McCoy couldnt shoot straight if his life depended on it that day even though he played rightly but I doubt I will want to relive that final.
QuoteAs for pog spoofing on Rufus T being an Ogs man......................... I would never say something like that about a Harps legend like Rufus.
You told me rufus went to the harps because he wouldnt have got a game with the ogs.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 27, 2007, 04:34:22 PM
QuoteAs for pog spoofing on Rufus T being an Ogs man......................... I would never say something like that about a Harps legend like Rufus.
You told me rufus went to the Harps because he wouldnt have got a game with the ogs.
Pog don't be at it ya hoor ya! I said no such thing.
He did rufus.
there is a posh part of armagh?? :o :o :o
what have they got - a toilet and electricity!!! LOL ;D ;D ;D
To get back to the title of this thread, am I alone in thinking that the County Board is taking far too long to announce the new manager? The rumours in Armagh have been flamed by the lack of declaring a decision.
I agree, I said this earlier on the thread surely it would be advisable for the new manager to be having a look at players at this stage
Heard the other night that McDonnell has the job. Anyone else heard anything?
To clear up a bit of confusion on this thread about Houlie's Harps ancestry.......The Houlahan name has always been synonymous with Armagh Harps. Indeed Houlie's Grand - Uncles Joe and Pat were instrumental in reforming the Harps from the ashes of the Young Ireland Club. Houlie's father Joe made the switch to the Ogs in the 50s as a result of not being able to break into the great Harps team of that era.......and so, unfortunately, the Harps lost out on the talents of Gerard and Paul, and indeed some other members of the extended Houlahan clan. However other sides of the family stayed loyal to the Harps.
Kevin Brady has announced that there are 3 interested candidates in the post & the county board will make a decision ;) in the next week or so
Heard it will be Grimley with possibly McGeeney as assistant
But hard to imagine Geezer going to the trainings and not joining in himself!
especially if the thing was not being done right!
I should know better than to trust the Hogan Stand Armagh comments page, but someone has posted that, according to a radio report, Packie McConville has been announced as the new Armagh manager. Any truth to this?
McConville would be the last choice of the 3 I would have thought???
Grimley seems a cert for it now that he's given up the Cavan job etc....
Correct 5times
verdict to be announced tonight @ 8pm
Any word lads?
McDonnell is new Armagh manager
Peter McDonnell has been appointed as Armagh's new county football manager.
On Wednesday night, the Armagh county board opted for McDonnell ahead of former county assistant Paul Grimley and Michael McConville.
McDonnell guided Mullaghbawn to the Ulster Club title in 1995 and also achieved another provincial success with Errigal Ciaran five years later.
He then had stints with Burren and Armagh Harps before guiding Armagh U21s to this year's Ulster title.
McDonnell has a big act to follow after Joe Kernan's historic successes with the county over the past six years.
Kernan guided Armagh to their historic All-Ireland triumph in 2002 as well as four provincial titles - including a three-in-a-row from 2004 to 2006.
Grimley was part of the Armagh backroom team for all those successes before he left Joe Kernan's backroom team 13 months ago.
Last month, Grimley resigned as assistant manager of Cavan in order to concentrate on his attempt to secure the Armagh post and he is likely to be hugely disappointed at being overlooked for the role.
There has been speculation that a number of prominent Armagh players were keen that Grimley would get the job.
McDonnell will inherit a talented squad but his first task may be to ascertain whether several experienced players wish to prolong their intercounty careers.
These include the likes of Kieran McGeeney, Oisin McConville and Paul McGrane.
Grimley, who was assistant to Kernan before resigning in 2006, was one of four men interviewed for the job by the Armagh county board.
Mullaghbawn man McDonnell guided Armagh Under-21s to this year's Ulster title.
John Rafferty and Michael McConville were the other interviewees but Rafferty is understood to have withdrawn his candidacy.
McDonnell got the post alright. :o :o :o
I thought Grimbley was a cert.. :(
before i'm corrected
Grimley and not Grimbley
thats a joke, grimley is the only man 4 the job! cant believe that!
The word around Armagh City at the end of last week was that McDonnell had the job, and was already in the process of sounding out men for his back room team.
The delay in the announcement has been put down to nervousness amongst the powers that be - they were firmly behind the choice of McDonnell but were totally aware of the players' loyalty to Big Paul - and there were fears amongst them as to what the reaction of the players might be if Big Paul was not announced - that one of course isstill for the future!
Peter McDonnell has an excellent track record, one which would probably surpass that of Big Paul as a manager - yet I am very disappointed that Big Paul has not got the nod - he would have been an excellent manager.
McDonnell will do a sound job for armagh . all armagh people should get behind him and move on.
We have a new Manager, a proven winner and I wish him well. after i had heard Grimley had given up the Cavan job I thought he was to be the man but it was not to be.
I am sure the players will get behind the new manager and move on. The County has a lot of talented footballers in it and we will be a force to be reckoned with next year again.
I am excited to see some new blood coming into the team, hopefully some of the younger players get to play a lot of league ball and gain some valuable experience at that level before the championship starts next year.
Joke appointment. bargain bin decision if ever there was one. interesting to get some opinions of the harps brethren, who were round about for his miserable stint there. he was laughed out of burren.
Family connections aside I would rather have had Paul. I would imagine that Paul would have had a better chance at keeping players like Mc Grane and Mc Nulty, players that I feel we still need for next year
Quote from: twotwocharlie on September 05, 2007, 10:48:54 PM
McDonnell will do a sound job for armagh . all armagh people should get behind him and move on.
exactly
Quote from: David McKeown on September 06, 2007, 12:41:25 AM
Family connections aside I would rather have had Paul. I would imagine that Paul would have had a better chance at keeping players like Mc Grane and Mc Nulty, players that I feel we still need for next year
I don't think that these players are needed at all, there are players coming through the U21s like Charlie Vernon, Finnian Morriarity etc that can take over the mantle of these players. Looking towards these players is like Galway trying to keep Padraig Joyce, great players but starting to loose their pace and authority.
Grimley had a backroom of Tony Scullion,James McCartan and Aiden O Rourke lined up.Absolute disgrace he didn't get the job. Looks like Big Joe is still pulling the strings of the County Board puppets.
P.S. Why has work on the Athletic Grounds stopped again ?
QuoteAiden O Rourke
Who is Aiden O Rourke if you don;t mind me asking?
Quote from: Uladh on September 05, 2007, 11:41:51 PM
Joke appointment. bargain bin decision if ever there was one. interesting to get some opinions of the harps brethren, who were round about for his miserable stint there. he was laughed out of burren.
If McDonnell walked into a packed harps club(or Abbey Park for that matter) any night, about 2 people would know who he is. That was symptomatic of his reign, there were games when you wouldn't know he was there, he'd pace the sidelines pulling on a fag leaving everything to Benny O'Kane, the U21's seemed to have a similar approach this year. I know a couple of the U21 lads who speak very highly of him.
Quote from: bennydorano on September 06, 2007, 04:07:37 PM
Quote from: Uladh on September 05, 2007, 11:41:51 PM
Joke appointment. bargain bin decision if ever there was one. interesting to get some opinions of the harps brethren, who were round about for his miserable stint there. he was laughed out of burren.
If McDonnell walked into a packed harps club(or Abbey Park for that matter) any night, about 2 people would know who he is. That was symptomatic of his reign, there were games when you wouldn't know he was there, he'd pace the sidelines pulling on a fag leaving everything to Benny O'Kane, the U21's seemed to have a similar approach this year. I know a couple of the U21 lads who speak very highly of him.
have to agree there Benny... I dont know if his "expert" tactics were shown to us through benny O'kane but i very rarely heard him say anything of that nature!!!
Althought the man is sound as a pound....
Would you say he was value for money so?
Sure Na Clairsigh never paid him anything??? ;)
metaphorically speaking
Might there be a clear out of players now ? The elderstatesmen ?
McGeeny is on the back page of the Irish Star givin off about the way the county board has treated Grimley.
Quote from: Red Hurley on September 06, 2007, 02:22:27 PM
P.S. Why has work on the Athletic Grounds stopped again ?
work has stopped on the athletic grounds because the company in charge of the work has gone bankrupt!!! typical county board would rather pay someone less money and get the job done half right,the trouble is that the money was paid out in full and now the work has stopped...makes me laugh just like grimley not getting the job...does anybody believe that grimley wouldnt have left his job in cavan if he hadnt of got assurances from somewhere within the county board regarding the armagh post
Quotework has stopped on the athletic grounds because the company in charge of the work has gone bankrupt!!! typical county board would rather pay someone less money and get the job done half right,the trouble is that the money was paid out in full and now the work has stopped...makes me laugh just like grimley not getting the job...does anybody believe that grimley wouldnt have left his job in cavan if he hadnt of got assurances from somewhere within the county board regarding the armagh post
Surely this cannot be true as the chairman and secretaries of the clubs in Armagh would have been informed at the meeting on Wednesday night.
What proof have you that the work has stopped as the company has gone bankrupt?
This is news to all Armagh clubs.
The Athletic grounds delay doesnt surpise me, i would love to know who was involve in the tendering process!!!
Anybody got the Mcgeeney interview on the Irishnews
Dont know McDonnell so cant rate him and as for Grimley well he is the best manager i have had by a long shot
McGeeney welcomes McDonnell
Gaelic Games
By Cóilín Duffy
Armagh veteran Kieran McGeeney has welcomed the appointment of former Mullaghbawn manager Peter McDonnell as the new Orchard county boss, but has expressed reservations that former Cavan trainer Paul Grimley will not be a part of the Armagh set-up.
"Peter is an excellent manager. I had Peter with Mullaghbawn and he is also a close friend so I'm going to be fairly biased," McGeeney said.
"He is a first rate manager and an excellent coach, he used to coach me for athletics for the 100m sprint and stuff like that. He was a European champion himself at junior level. He is a fantastic athlete and a great man and I wish him all the best."
However, McGeeney couldn't hide his disappointment that Paul Grimley will not be involved. Grimley was Joe Kernan's right-hand man when the now Na Fianna player lifted Sam Maguire in 2002.
"I would have to say that I am very disappointed with the way the Armagh County Board treated Paul Grimley," McGeeney stated.
Paul and Brian McAlinden are two men that I would have come across who have impeccable integrity. Paul Grimley is an Armagh man to the backbone, like Brian, but these things happen and that is the way life goes."
However, the 34-year-old knows McDonnell from his Mullaghbawn days, when he guided them to the Armagh SFC in 1995, and has the height of respect for him.
"Peter knows his stuff and I suppose Mullaghbawn was very lucky at that particular time with a very, very strong defence. We had the two McNultys, myself and Neil Smyth, so out of your first seven, six of them basically were on the county squad.
"We were always able to deal with Crossmaglen's forward power but we probably wouldn't have had the same power upfront ourselves. Peter was able to mould us into a team. When I first started playing for Mullaghbawn in 1986, we were in Division Four but we came up to win it so it was a good achievement."
McGeeney denied that the appointment of Grimley would have guaranteed him a place in the squad as an 'elder statesman' and he sees the future as a bright one for Armagh football regardless of his own future.
"Paul is not stupid either and everybody has a shelf life about the amount of time you can play for.
"We have younger players coming through also that are fantastic players, the likes of Kieran McKeever and Brian Mallon and Kieran Toner and all of those younger boys. They are going to have to be moulded into a Championship winning team, but that can be done in a year.
"It depends on the willingness of the players and I think that bunch of lads have a great willingness. There are some fantastic players coming through and I think it shouldn't be too long and hopefully in the near future they do well."
Everyone equal under new Orchard manager
Gaelic Games
By Eamonn O'Hara
PETER McDonnell makes no difference between the All-Ireland medallist, the Allstar, the experienced campaigner and those club players showing impressive form eager for a chance to show what they have to offer.
Armagh's new senior football team manager will make one invitation to all sometime in the next month.
It will be up to each player to make up his mind up on whether he wants to buy into the new blueprint after his appointment on Wednesday night as successor to All-Ireland title-winner and multiple Ulster Championship winner, Joe Kernan.
After refining a few details with his appointed backroom personnel, whose identities he will reveal shortly, a squad will be brought together for pre-season. Previous achievements or household standing are no guarantees for inclusion.
It will be performance-related, current form, and no player – big name or otherwise – can expect special treatment.
Will 'Geezer' decide to play on or, as speculation has hinted, look behind the scenes? What of McGrane, Oisin, Francie and one or two others?
The weeks since Armagh's exit from the All-Ireland SFC series and the decision by 'Big Joe' to retire after the most successful managerial reign in the county's history have been filled with questions about futures.
McDonnell made clear yesterday he will not try to persuade anyone to answer positively to the invitation when it is made. It will be solely the decision of each player asked to commit to the cause or not, as the case may be.
"The bottom line, whether they are young or old, is performance, not reputation or what people did in the past, and that criteria will be the same for all," he said.
"I will not be talking to any player individually. I will lay out my stall and if people find that attractive enough, well and good, and if they don't, well and good.
"But I won't be talking to anybody because every player to me is the same. I won't be talking to individuals. I would just as quick talk to the newest and youngest member of the panel as to the oldest and that is the way I am approaching this."
A 42-year-old school principal at St Mary's Primary in his home parish of Mullaghbawn, where he played his football, McDonnell started management at U21 level before guiding Mullaghbawn seniors to Ulster success in 1995.
He recently brought Armagh to the U21 All-Ireland semi-finals following club management spells at Burren and Armagh Harps. He also took Tyrone's Errigal Ciaran to an Ulster senior final seven years ago.
The county U21 squad and several in-form club
players are likely to receive invites when the time comes, with some players who may have thought their senior county chances were over also poised to be approached to see if they have ambitions to be part of the new deal.
"I am very familiar with the U21 players. I am very familiar with the club players, lads who are touching on county and maybe for one reason or another maybe fell out of favour," he said.
"But I have seen on a weekly basis who's doing what for which club and I have to say there's a few fellas out there who may get the opportunity to have their careers, or county careers, rekindled. I see them doing it week-in, week-out.
"I would be keen to see if they would be prepared to throw their hat in the ring to see how it goes. Maybe they are not interested. I don't know yet.
"But it is not just going to be taking lads up from U21. It is going to be looking at lads who are playing football here in this county and doing it well."
The last number of weeks have been intensive, with much media speculation over Armagh's vacancy. Throughout his management dealings, he maintains the measure of achievements he enjoyed, most recently with the county U21s, "always hinge on the quality of players that you have".
He said he was "very fortunate" to work with the players he has so far worked with, and is "thrilled" at securing the biggest job in Armagh football, which he considers a "natural progression".
"My ambition has always been to do the very best I can do and try to get the best out of people, and I suppose where I am at today is a result of all of those things," he said.
"I am absolutely honoured and delighted that I have this position. It means an awful lot to my extended family, uncles and aunts, who are all GAA people.
"It is a tremendous honour and a privilege. But, in terms of a long held ambition, I am where I am as just a natural progression and I am not fazed by it all."
It will be interesting to see the make up of the initial squad in five or six weeks' time. Once formulated, the pressure will be on from there to the height of next summer's Championship campaign.
Quote from: Armagh Exile on September 07, 2007, 09:02:27 AM
Quotework has stopped on the athletic grounds because the company in charge of the work has gone bankrupt!!!
Surely this cannot be true as the chairman and secretaries of the clubs in Armagh would have been informed at the meeting on Wednesday night.
What proof have you that the work has stopped as the company has gone bankrupt?
This is news to all Armagh clubs.
i live beside the athletic grounds and know 1 of the men who was working on the grounds,it was him who told me the company had gone bankrupt,he hasnt been working all week...fact!!!
Quote from: umgolaarmagh on September 07, 2007, 09:05:05 AM
Dont know McDonnell so cant rate him and as for Grimley well he is the best manager i have had by a long shot
I have had the oppurtunity to have played under both Paul and Peter, and i can assure you that both men have a great track record in club management, yes the county boards treatment of big Paul was terrible but to suggest that the best man never got the job is nonsense!
Peter is a great manager, his man management skills are no different from Pauls he knows his stuff and the sooner that people start backing him the sooner Armagh will be back to winning ways ;)
He's been shafted. No doubt about it.
Heard over the weekend that he was bringing in Denis Hollywood and Martin McQuillan as his bakroom staff. Has anyone else heard anything??
i'lldecide - heard that myself, im sure your fellow clubman paul kelly will have a few things to say about that as i heard that he is looking to move from minor to under21 management and denis hollywood has been part of kelly's backroom team along with brendan hughes
Quote from: diesel-smuggler on September 10, 2007, 01:10:42 PM
i'lldecide - heard that myself, im sure your fellow clubman paul kelly will have a few things to say about that as i heard that he is looking to move from minor to under21 management and denis hollywood has been part of kelly's backroom team along with brendan hughes
I heard that yesterday myself. As long as he stays away from our senior team i don't really care what he does. But by hook or by crook he is determined to land the big one some day..
Quote from: illdecide on September 10, 2007, 01:29:46 PM
Quote from: diesel-smuggler on September 10, 2007, 01:10:42 PM
i'lldecide - heard that myself, im sure your fellow clubman paul kelly will have a few things to say about that as i heard that he is looking to move from minor to under21 management and denis hollywood has been part of kelly's backroom team along with brendan hughes
I heard that yesterday myself. As long as he stays away from our senior team i don't really care what he does. But by hook or by crook he is determined to land the big one some day..
They can hardly complain, there was back stabbing going on when they got the minor management too.
paul kelly and his backroom team should have walked away allowing the development squad management team a crack at the minors after they had brought them thru from u15 level, kelly heard that they had been a good team and he decided to hold the limelight for himself!
one thing about him though he is very meticulous in his planning and he leaves no stone unturned, but he is still hard on the ears!
Couldn't agree more ;)
from de Indo
OISIN McCONVILLE has confirmed that he will remain on as an Armagh player for at least another year, WRITES COLM KEYS.
McConville pledged his commitment to new Armagh manager Peter McDonnell as his club, Crossmaglen Rangers, were honoured by AIB for their achievement in winning the last 12 Armagh titles.
I saw Mc Conville play in the county final for Cross a few weeks ago and he was truly awesome -
Quote from: orangeman on October 12, 2007, 03:16:55 PM
I saw Mc Conville play in the county final for Cross a few weeks ago and he was truly awesome -
Did you get his mob no ;) :D