It Must be Marching Season

Started by Nally Stand, June 27, 2011, 11:27:31 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

imtommygunn

That was a major employer in the area too :-(


screenexile

That's what the Politicians should be focussing on rather than that guff at Twaddell.

£40k a day to Gallaghers would soon keep all those people employed!

PS. Sinn Fein's stance on the Welfare Reform is disgraceful also. They need to get into the real world and realise that the Country's fucked and it's going to be hard for a while longer!!

Hereiam

Which country are you referring to been fucked. The UK are doing alright, sure are they not the money capital of Europe.
The money that is spent on the bombs they are dropping over in Iraq would pay for a lot here in the north.
I'm not for defending SF but they know the money is there so why not try to get as much as they can.

glens abu

Quote from: screenexile on October 07, 2014, 04:57:38 PM
That's what the Politicians should be focussing on rather than that guff at Twaddell.

£40k a day to Gallaghers would soon keep all those people employed!

PS. Sinn Fein's stance on the Welfare Reform is disgraceful also. They need to get into the real world and realise that the Country's fucked and it's going to be hard for a while longer!!

Tories like you should be ashamed of yourselves,cut benefits to the disabled and the poor but look after big buisness.

ast week, as the Tory faithful cheered on George Osborne's new cuts in benefits for the working-age poor, a little story appeared that blew a big hole in the welfare debate. Tucked away in the Guardian last Wednesday, an article revealed that the British government had since 2007 handed Disney almost £170m to make films here. Last year alone the Californian giant took £50m in tax credits. By way of comparison, in April the government will scrap a £347m crisis fund that provides emergency cash for families on the verge of homelessness or starvation.

Benefits are what we grudgingly hand the poor; the rich are awarded tax breaks. Cut through the euphemisms and the Treasury accounting, however, and you're left with two forms of welfare. Except that the hundreds given to people sleeping on the street has been deemed unaffordable. Those millions for $150bn Disney, on the other hand, that's apparently money well spent –whoever coined the phrase "taking the Mickey" must have worked for HM Revenue.

Politicians and pundits talk about welfare as if it's solely cash given to people. Hardly ever discussed is corporate welfare: the grants and subsidies, the contracts and cut-price loans that government hands over to business. Yet some of our biggest companies and industries operate a business model that depends on them extracting money from the British taxpayer. The operators of our supposedly privatised train services are kept afloat by billions in public money. Or take the firm created by billionaire Jeff Bezos: last year it emerged that Amazon had paid less in corporation tax to the UK than it had received in government grants.

The bill for corporate welfare is huge – and largely hidden. We know a lot about the people who claim social welfare: we know how much each benefit costs the public, the government sets strict rules for eligibility – and we even have detailed estimates for how much cheating goes on. Between them, Whitehall, academia and NGOs have churned out enough surveys on social welfare claimants to fill a wing of the Bodleian library. But corporate welfare? The government has itself acknowledged: "There is no definitive source of data about spending on subsidies to businesses in the UK." The numbers are scattered across government publications and there is not even any agreement on what counts as a corporate handout.

Advertisement

Instead, what you get on the issue is silence. A very congenial silence for the CBI and other business lobby groups, who can urge ministers to cut benefits for the poor harder and faster, knowing their members are still getting their bungs. An agreeable silence for Osborne and David Cameron, who still argue that the primary problem in Britain is that the public sector "crowds out" private enterprise, without ever acknowledging how much the public subsidises business. Most of all, a silence at the very centre of our democracy.

Kevin Farnsworth, a senior lecturer in social policy at the University of York, has spent the best part of a decade studying corporate welfare – delving through Whitehall spreadsheets and others, and poring over Companies House filings. He's just produced what is, as far as I know, the first ever comprehensive audit of the British corporate welfare state.

The figures, to be published in a forthcoming report, are astonishing. Farnsworth takes the financial year 2011-12 and tots up the subsidies and grants paid directly to businesses. They amount to over £14bn – that is, almost three times the £5bn paid out that year in income-based jobseeker's allowance.

Add to that the corporate tax benefits, the value of the cheap credit made available to banks and other business, the insurance schemes run by the government to protect exporters, the marketing for British business laid on by Vince Cable's ministry, the public procurement from the private sector ... Farnsworth calculates that direct corporate welfare costs British taxpayers just shy of £85bn a year.

This, he admits, is a conservative estimate. I would throw in the public subsidy provided to too-big-to-fail banks, or the £25bn taxpayers shelled out that year in tax credits, housing and council tax benefits to people in work but not paid enough by their employers to live on. Nevertheless, Farnsworth has achieved something extraordinary: he has yanked into the open an £85bn subsidy that big business and the government would rather you didn't know about.

Thinking over this giant corporate bung, two responses immediately suggest themselves. First, it shows up the stupidity of all those newspaper spreads and BBC discussions constantly demanding "What would you cut?", like some middlebrow ransom note ("Choose now: or the lollipop lady gets it"). It's a question you'll be hearing more and more in the run-up to the election. Perhaps next time, as well as mentioning schools, fire services and benefits, some brave Radio 4 presenter will mention the business coaching and marketing and advocacy services provided by the Department for Business (annual cost: nearly £5bn).

The other response you might make is that some business funding is inevitable, even desirable. Perhaps you consider keeping Kenneth Branagh employed in these islands to be a national priority – in which case, roll on those tax reliefs for Disney. I might argue that renewable energy deserves a subsidy. But voters are at least entitled to an informed debate. That is precisely what we've not been allowed, through the deliberate obscuring of these sums.

And if taxpayers are to fund corporations, why shouldn't they demand that those businesses observe certain conditions of basic fairness? The publicly funded train operators should pay their staff living wages, provide decent pensions and sick pay. And all recipients of public money should be banned from using elaborate structures to avoid paying tax.

Our semi-secret system makes no such demands: of the 44 companies that received over £1m in government grants between 2005 and 2011, 13 didn't pay any corporation tax at all; a further 17 didn't pay any corporation tax either the year before or the year of receiving their public money. These aren't two-bit firms, either: Farnsworth's list includes Tesco Personal Finance, Dell and Plusnet.

And, of course, Amazon – which in 2011 alone took £7.7m from Holyrood for placing a distribution centre in Fife. The Welsh assembly promised it even more: £8.8m, as well as a £3m highway to connect its operations with other road networks. Just finished, it's called the Ffordd Amazon road, for the avoidance of ambiguity about whose interests it's meant to serve.

Farnsworth's research should trigger a public debate about the size and uses of the corporate welfare state. Personally, I'll believe we're getting somewhere when Channel 4 puts on Corporate-Benefits Street – with White Dee replaced by Amazon founder and inveterate tax-dodger Jeff Bezos.

Myles Na G.

Quote from: screenexile on October 07, 2014, 04:57:38 PM
That's what the Politicians should be focussing on rather than that guff at Twaddell.

£40k a day to Gallaghers would soon keep all those people employed!

PS. Sinn Fein's stance on the Welfare Reform is disgraceful also. They need to get into the real world and realise that the Country's fucked and it's going to be hard for a while longer!!
Yeah, but why start at the bottom of the pile? Why not start making cuts / imposing taxes at the upper end of the wage spectrum or on the corporations that rob countries of billions by avoiding paying taxes?

Maguire01

Quote from: glens abu on October 07, 2014, 05:20:16 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 07, 2014, 04:57:38 PM
That's what the Politicians should be focussing on rather than that guff at Twaddell.

£40k a day to Gallaghers would soon keep all those people employed!

PS. Sinn Fein's stance on the Welfare Reform is disgraceful also. They need to get into the real world and realise that the Country's fucked and it's going to be hard for a while longer!!

Tories like you should be ashamed of yourselves,cut benefits to the disabled and the poor but look after big buisness.
Is your party not looking to reduce corporation tax? And there's no shortage of photo calls with the dFM at the announcement of new jobs supported by Invest NI grants.

Kidder81

Quote from: Maguire01 on October 07, 2014, 09:13:58 PM
Quote from: glens abu on October 07, 2014, 05:20:16 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 07, 2014, 04:57:38 PM
That's what the Politicians should be focussing on rather than that guff at Twaddell.

£40k a day to Gallaghers would soon keep all those people employed!

PS. Sinn Fein's stance on the Welfare Reform is disgraceful also. They need to get into the real world and realise that the Country's fucked and it's going to be hard for a while longer!!

Tories like you should be ashamed of yourselves,cut benefits to the disabled and the poor but look after big buisness.
Is your party not looking to reduce corporation tax? And there's no shortage of photo calls with the dFM at the announcement of new jobs supported by Invest NI grants.

Everyone seems to realise that welfare reform is needed except SF, well I am sure they know it is happening but are just grandstanding.

All the political leaders in the UK have said welfare reform has to happen, Labour have already said they would be introducing similar welfare reform, bar the bedroom tax, but yet it's easier to blame it all on "savage Tory cuts".

Anyone that doesent think there needs to be a reform of the welfare system is living in cuckoo land, and it doesent make you a Tory for seeing the need for welfare reform.

Applesisapples

The rights and wrongs of the welfare cuts are irrelevant. The Tories are going to insist. The Scots situation is going to throw up a scenario in Westminister where a UKIP/Tory majority will be deciding on how the UK budget is sliced out. SF nor the DUP will influence these decisions as English tax payers will not want to fund what is in there eyes a parasite welfare dependant society.

GJL

Quote from: Kidder81 on October 07, 2014, 10:28:02 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 07, 2014, 09:13:58 PM
Quote from: glens abu on October 07, 2014, 05:20:16 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 07, 2014, 04:57:38 PM
That's what the Politicians should be focussing on rather than that guff at Twaddell.

£40k a day to Gallaghers would soon keep all those people employed!

PS. Sinn Fein's stance on the Welfare Reform is disgraceful also. They need to get into the real world and realise that the Country's fucked and it's going to be hard for a while longer!!

Tories like you should be ashamed of yourselves,cut benefits to the disabled and the poor but look after big buisness.
Is your party not looking to reduce corporation tax? And there's no shortage of photo calls with the dFM at the announcement of new jobs supported by Invest NI grants.

Everyone seems to realise that welfare reform is needed except SF, well I am sure they know it is happening but are just grandstanding.

All the political leaders in the UK have said welfare reform has to happen, Labour have already said they would be introducing similar welfare reform, bar the bedroom tax, but yet it's easier to blame it all on "savage Tory cuts".

Anyone that doesent think there needs to be a reform of the welfare system is living in cuckoo land, and it doesent make you a Tory for seeing the need for welfare reform.

Don't know a pile about welfare but I do know there are a couple of alcos falling about our village here. The local bar owner tells me they get their rent paid for and a couple of hundred pounds a week in benefits as they are signed up alcoholics. I would have no problem with their money being cut off to put more in the pot for better causes.

Orior

I heard someone make a good point yesterday - nobody seems to complain about the cost of britain fighting in 5 or so wars in the past 10 years. Every Hellfire missile fired in Afghanistan costs about £38k
Cover me in chocolate and feed me to the lesbians

Applesisapples

Quote from: Orior on October 08, 2014, 03:09:26 PM
I heard someone make a good point yesterday - nobody seems to complain about the cost of britain fighting in 5 or so wars in the past 10 years. Every Hellfire missile fired in Afghanistan costs about £38k
What the British decide to do with their spare cash is up to them At this moment they are claiming jurisdiction over OWC. OWC in fairness wouldn't last 2 seconds if we had to go it alone, although Rory McIlroy could probably buy us out. The British are at the stage where we are a cost burden and they are going to cut that budget bit by bit. If I was them I would do that too.

Orior

Quote from: Applesisapples on October 08, 2014, 03:50:59 PM
Quote from: Orior on October 08, 2014, 03:09:26 PM
I heard someone make a good point yesterday - nobody seems to complain about the cost of britain fighting in 5 or so wars in the past 10 years. Every Hellfire missile fired in Afghanistan costs about £38k
What the British decide to do with their spare cash is up to them At this moment they are claiming jurisdiction over OWC. OWC in fairness wouldn't last 2 seconds if we had to go it alone, although Rory McIlroy could probably buy us out. The British are at the stage where we are a cost burden and they are going to cut that budget bit by bit. If I was them I would do that too.

That drugs shipment which was intercepted off the coast of Cork/Kerry recently would have kept us all going for a while in more ways than one.
Cover me in chocolate and feed me to the lesbians

glens abu

Quote from: Maguire01 on October 07, 2014, 09:13:58 PM
Quote from: glens abu on October 07, 2014, 05:20:16 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 07, 2014, 04:57:38 PM
That's what the Politicians should be focussing on rather than that guff at Twaddell.

£40k a day to Gallaghers would soon keep all those people employed!

PS. Sinn Fein's stance on the Welfare Reform is disgraceful also. They need to get into the real world and realise that the Country's fucked and it's going to be hard for a while longer!!

Tories like you should be ashamed of yourselves,cut benefits to the disabled and the poor but look after big buisness.
Is your party not looking to reduce corporation tax? And there's no shortage of photo calls with the dFM at the announcement of new jobs supported by Invest NI grants.

Yes Maguire we do want corporation tax to be the same on both parts of the Island as we believe there should be an equal playing field regarding attracting investment.SF are not economically illiterate and are aware we need to try and encourage companies to set up in Ireland sometimes doing things that are not particularly palatable but the difference between us and Tory parties North,South and in Engalnd is we will not do it at the expense of the vulnerable in our society.We will stand againist the Tory cuts,water charges and anything else we feel is being brought in to benefit the wealthy and big business to the detriment of old,disabled and disadvantaged.SF in the 26 today have just released their costed budget for 2015 which think is worth a read in detail but here is a short synopsis.


Sinn Féin budget supports fair and sustainable recovery - Pearse Doherty

8 October, 2014 - by Pearse Doherty TD

7

 
Sinn Féin Alternative Budget 2015 (1 MB)
Read now
Sinn Fein's Finance Spokesperson Pearse Doherty TD has said Sinn Fein's alternative Budget would repair communities, rebuild the economy and renew society. The budget lays out how Sinn Fein would abolish the local property tax and water charges and our programme for investing in disability services, health and education.

Speaking at the alternative Budget launch Deputy Doherty said:

"Sinn Fein's alternative budget, which is once again costed by the Departments of Finance and Public Expenditure, shows how this year's Budget could start to repair communities, rebuild the economy and renew society. The budget is fiscally neutral which as Minister Noonan has pointed out would bring Ireland under the targeted 3% deficit for 2015.

Our priority in Budget 2015 is to reduce the tax burden on working families and low and middle income households by scrapping the property tax and water charges. We would remove all people earning under the minimum wage out of the USC net while we keeping the exemption for households earning under 60,000 and on medical cards.

In a full year our tax raising measures would bring in an additional €1.7bn through a third rate of income tax, restoring CGT and CAT to 40%, a 3% betting tax and a range of other measures. However, the net tax increase will be just €263.7million as our measures would see €1.053bn going back to low- middle income workers.

We have prioritised investment in disability services, through a €202 million package of 11 measures. We would also reverse cuts to the respite care grant and increase the Family Income Supplement. We would tackle the scourge of emigration by restoring the full rate for young jobseekers over two budgets starting with €40 in this budget.

We would hire 1,000 resource teachers and 1,000 nurses and midwives as well as a fund for other frontline workers as required.

On the capital side we would tackle the social housing crisis with a €1 bn injection from the Strategic Investment fund. This alternative would give people a break while balancing the books."

Put €800m back into the pockets of ordinary workers through the abolition of the property tax and by stopping water charges
Invest an additional €202.6m in disability services and supports
Prioritise investment in health and education to make back to school more affordable and recruit an additional 1.000 nurses and midwives
Help stop forced emigration of our young people by restoring the Jobseekers payment for those under 26 over two years
Invest €1bn from the Strategic Investment Fund to build an additional 6,600 homes over the next 18 months and create 8,000 jobs
Reduce salaries and allowances of high-earners in the public sector and Oireachtas

glens abu

Quote from: Kidder81 on October 07, 2014, 10:28:02 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 07, 2014, 09:13:58 PM
Quote from: glens abu on October 07, 2014, 05:20:16 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 07, 2014, 04:57:38 PM
That's what the Politicians should be focussing on rather than that guff at Twaddell.

£40k a day to Gallaghers would soon keep all those people employed!

PS. Sinn Fein's stance on the Welfare Reform is disgraceful also. They need to get into the real world and realise that the Country's fucked and it's going to be hard for a while longer!!

Tories like you should be ashamed of yourselves,cut benefits to the disabled and the poor but look after big buisness.
Is your party not looking to reduce corporation tax? And there's no shortage of photo calls with the dFM at the announcement of new jobs supported by Invest NI grants.

Everyone seems to realise that welfare reform is needed except SF, well I am sure they know it is happening but are just grandstanding.

All the political leaders in the UK have said welfare reform has to happen, Labour have already said they would be introducing similar welfare reform, bar the bedroom tax, but yet it's easier to blame it all on "savage Tory cuts".

Anyone that doesent think there needs to be a reform of the welfare system is living in cuckoo land, and it doesent make you a Tory for seeing the need for welfare reform.

Kidder I have no problem with anything being reformed for the better and I am well aware of those who abuse the system but this is not reform this is CUTS and those suffering will not be the cheats but the old,sick and children.

GJL

Quote from: glens abu on October 08, 2014, 04:03:01 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on October 07, 2014, 10:28:02 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 07, 2014, 09:13:58 PM
Quote from: glens abu on October 07, 2014, 05:20:16 PM
Quote from: screenexile on October 07, 2014, 04:57:38 PM
That's what the Politicians should be focussing on rather than that guff at Twaddell.

£40k a day to Gallaghers would soon keep all those people employed!

PS. Sinn Fein's stance on the Welfare Reform is disgraceful also. They need to get into the real world and realise that the Country's fucked and it's going to be hard for a while longer!!

Tories like you should be ashamed of yourselves,cut benefits to the disabled and the poor but look after big buisness.
Is your party not looking to reduce corporation tax? And there's no shortage of photo calls with the dFM at the announcement of new jobs supported by Invest NI grants.

Everyone seems to realise that welfare reform is needed except SF, well I am sure they know it is happening but are just grandstanding.

All the political leaders in the UK have said welfare reform has to happen, Labour have already said they would be introducing similar welfare reform, bar the bedroom tax, but yet it's easier to blame it all on "savage Tory cuts".

Anyone that doesent think there needs to be a reform of the welfare system is living in cuckoo land, and it doesent make you a Tory for seeing the need for welfare reform.

Kidder I have no problem with anything being reformed for the better and I am well aware of those who abuse the system but this is not reform this is CUTS and those suffering will not be the cheats but the old,sick and children.

Would it not be an idea to look for reform to get rid of the cheats? Maybe that would cost too many votes? As far as I can see the system is too easy for cheats to work so change the system would be a good idea. May not be too popular with a lot of voters though!