The Masonic Lodge and The Knights are they linked?

[Doogie Browser]

I find it hard to believe you though Roger as you followed a certain route with your posts.  I will trust the word of the chief wizard of masonry though, I agree with him and his perception of how normal people view masonry.

I also said 'exactly the kind' of institution by the way, as in 'the sort of group' or 'the type of group' and I think it is clear the groups would have certain things in common, primarily their secrecy I suppose.

My opinions are worth as much as yours, but you don't seem to respect what I say, I don't expect your acceptance or agreement, but your instransigence, unwillingness to respect someone elses point of view and and patronising tone is something I am all too familiar with in the 6 counties.      Sad really.

[nifan]

The masons dont ban catholics as far as I am aware, but is it not the case that you can (or used to) be excommunicated from the catholic church for being a mason.

[Roger]

I follow a certain route? Wise up.  
You agree with perception about one organisation but you never mentioned perception in your original inflammatory and accusatory remarks.   Your opinions are indeed valid but your accusation is not. Nationalists are the victims of nothing here either from Masons or Knights.

But lets agree on one thing, we'll just leave this as there is simply no point.

[longrunsthefox]

... so you can post something inflamatory on another thread...

[Roger]

... so you can post something inflamatory on another thread...

I'm quite interested to learn more about these two and any links.  I had wondered the Knights might have been linked to Masonry as masons call themselves Knights and there is a Knights Templar degree or some influence within Masonry.  I had not heard of Knights of Columbanus though and had wondered if there was an influence on Masonry.  If as Abbeysider says it is run by the RC Church then I can't see any links being possible as that church is officially very anti-freemasonry.

By the way, I'm not a mason or a knight.  Nor for that matter have I ever been a member of any political or religious organisation. 

[AbbeySider]

... so you can post something inflamatory on another thread...

I'm quite interested to learn more about these two and any links.  I had wondered the Knights might have been linked to Masonry as masons call themselves Knights and there is a Knights Templar degree or some influence within Masonry.  I had not heard of Knights of Columbanus though and had wondered if there was an influence on Masonry.  If as Abbeysider says it is run by the RC Church then I can't see any links being possible as that church is officially very anti-freemasonry.

By the way, I'm not a mason or a knight.  Nor for that matter have I ever been a member of any political or religious organisation. 

I never said that the Knights of Colombanus were 'run' by the Church/Vatican. However they are acknowledged by the Church. They would have no direct connection and running of the Knights but there is a recognition all the same. As I said, it is conservative Catholics that are members and they try and defend situations the church may be involved in. They wouldnt see the Pope as the leader and rule maker of the Knights' organisation or anything.
They would only see the Pope as any other catholic would define him.

The Vatican would however have stronger links with other organisations such as Opus Dei.

[Roger]

Fair point.  What you seem to be saying is that it's just a fraternal society which is supportive of that church for members of that church? 

[AbbeySider]

Fair point.  What you seem to be saying is that it's just a fraternal society which is supportive of that church for members of that church? 

Now you have it.
Essentially it is a private catholic men's fraternity. Many others exist in various countries around the world. They are all linked under an alliance that would be recognised by the church as a private international catholic association.

Going back to the argument about sectarianism. I have never found or heard of Masons or the Knights being a sectarian organisation, however its possible that sectarians exist in those organisations in the same way that they exist in every other group and walk of life. There is an aristocrat, business/powerful men ethos to the Masons though but i wouldnt see this as being sectarian as all denominations including Catholics, Jews and Muslims can be Masons.

But secret organisations of this type are dangerous for other reasons. Any secret organisation with powerful people involved is not really a healthy practice for obvious reasons. It is a step closer so what is known as "The Secret Rulers of The World" and the "New World Order" which may or may not exist.

IMO I think that cooperation between organisations like Masons and other secret societies leads to clues of the existence of such powerful movements and organisations. But thats another thread.

[Roger]

In Northern Ireland it seems to be more middle and lower-middle class people involved in the Masons.  I think the Masons have very much been in decline for years.  Their secretive side of things let preconceptions and ignorance about what they do to develop into hostility towards it and then didn't adapt with times and numbers have subsequently fallen.  There also seems less interest with younger people in the Masons and they wouldn't be anywhere near as powerful as they are maybe considered. They do still seem to be prominent in the public sector and in particular the police and judiciary.

A couple of years ago the Masons tried to be more open about what they are about in order to educate people and allay some people's fears about them.  They had an open day at their Temple in Rosemary Street in Belfast.  I went along for a tour and found it all very informative and it's a very interesting building.  Well worth going to if they ever do it again.  They were actually quite open and when I was asked about what I do etc they immediately identified people I might know who were members of lodges that meet in Rosemary Street.  They weren't at all secretive about membership.  They are simply secretive about their rituals and workings.  In order to join the Masons all you have to do ask one and that starts the process.  You are not asked in the first instance but must show interest.  You also need to believe in a 'higher being' or God. After that they basically vet you to see if you are of good standing in the community and if any Masons have an issue with you (e.g. a legal case or previous trouble with you). Doesn't seem to be too difficult to join.   Having enquired about MAsonry to a couple of Masons that I know I've been asked if would like to come along to the lodge (but not their meeting bit) as it is meant to be very sociable (few drinks, food etc) but I declined as this is the first part of starting to join. 

From what I can make out from reading about Masonry the problem is it seems to be a bit of a religion to me.  Someone mentioned earlier that it is a cult and that may not be far from the truth. Most people think once you are a Master Mason (3rd Degree) that that is about it.  However there are 33 degrees and these degrees meet in different lodge meetings.  It is during these upper degrees that there is a god-like figure that is revealed as the real meaning / secret of masonry which is some sort of combination of 3 gods including the Christian God.  I've no problem with Masonry or fraternal organisations at all but that bit just takes it away from something I'd be interested in joining.

[Diet Coke]

Ther are plenty of catholics who are masons including priests

I very much doubt that.

The Orange Order is part of freemasonry.

Yeah the following are all members of OO
A List of Masons in the Hierarchy of the Catholic Church


The following is a list of Masons reprinted with some updates from the Bulletin de l'Occident Chrétien Nr.12, July, 1976, (Directeur Pierre Fautrad a Fye - 72490 Bourg Le Roi.) All of the men on this list, if they in fact be Masons, are excommunicated by Canon Law 2338. Each man's name is followed by his position, if known; the date he was initiated into Masonry, his code #; and his code name, if known.

Albondi, Alberto. Bishop of Livorno, (Leghorn). Initiated 8-5-58; I.D. # 7-2431.

Abrech, Pio. In the Sacred Congregation Bishops. 11-27-67; # 63-143.

Acquaviva, Sabino. Professor of Religion at the University of Padova, (Padua). 12-3-69; # 275-69.

Alessandro, Father Gottardi. (Addressed as Doctor in Masonic meetings.) President of Fratelli Maristi. 6-14-59.

Angelini Fiorenzo. Bishop of Messenel Greece. 10-14-57; # 14-005.

Argentieri, Benedetto. Patriarch to the Holy See. 3-11-70; # 298-A.

Bea, Augustin. Cardinal. Secretary of State (next to Pope) under Pope John XXIII and Pope Paul VI.

Baggio, Sebastiano. Cardinal. Prefect of the Sacred Congregation of Bishops. (This is a crucial Congregation since it appoints new Bishops.) Secretary of State under Pope John Paul II from 1989 to 1992. 8-14-57; # 85-1640. Masonic code name "SEBA." Controls consecration of Bishops.

Balboni, Dante. Assistant to the Vatican Pontifical . Commission for Biblical Studies. 7-23-68; # 79-14 "BALDA."

Baldassarri Salvatore. Bishop of Ravenna, Italy. 2-19-58; # 4315-19. "BALSA."

Balducci, Ernesto. Religious sculpture artist. 5-16-66; # 1452-3.

Basadonna, Ernesto. Prelate of Milan, 9-14-63; # 9-243. "BASE."

Batelli, Guilio. Lay member of many scientific academies. 8-24-59; # 29-A. "GIBA."

Bedeschi, Lorenzo. 2-19-59; # 24-041. "BELO."

Belloli, Luigi. Rector of Seminar; Lombardy, Ita- ly. 4-6-58; # 22-04. "BELLU."

Belluchi, Cleto. Coadjutor Bishop of Fermo, Italy. 6-4-68; # 12-217.

Bettazzi, Luigi. Bishop of Ivera, Italy. 5-11-66; # 1347-45. "LUBE."

Bianchi, Ciovanni. 10-23-69; # 2215-11. "BIGI."

Biffi, Franco, Msgr. Rector of Church of St. John Lateran Pontifical University. He is head of this University and controls what is being taught. He heard confessions of Pope Paul VI. 8-15-59. "BIFRA."

Bicarella, Mario. Prelate of Vicenza, Italy. 9-23-64; # 21-014. "BIMA."

Bonicelli, Gaetano. Bishop of Albano, Italy. 5-12-59; # 63-1428, "BOGA."

Boretti, Giancarlo. 3-21-65; # 0-241. "BORGI."

Bovone, Alberto. Substitute Secretary of the Sacred Office. 3-30-67; # 254-3. "ALBO."

Brini, Mario. ArchBishop. Secretary of Chinese, Oriental, and Pagans. Member of Pontifical Commission to Russia. Has control of rewriting Canon Law. 7-7-68; # 15670. "MABRI."

Bugnini, Annibale. ArchBishop.Wrote Novus Ordo Mass. Envoy to Iran, 4-23-63; # 1365-75. "BUAN."

Buro, Michele. Bishop. Prelate of Pontifical Commission to Latin America, 3-21-69; # 140-2. "BUMI."

Cacciavillan, Agostino. Secretariat of State. 11-6-60; # 13-154.

Cameli, Umberto. Director in Office of the Ecclesiastical Affairs of Italy in regard to education in Catholic doctrine. 11-17-60; # 9-1436.

Caprile, Giovanni. Director of Catholic Civil Affairs. 9-5-57; # 21-014. "GICA."

Caputo, Giuseppe. 11-15-71; # 6125-63. "GICAP."

Casaroli, Agostino. Cardinal. Secretary of State (next to Pope) under Pope John Paul II since July 1, 1979 until retired in 1989. 9-28-57; # 41-076. "CASA."

Cerruti, Flaminio. Chief of the Office of the University of Congregation Studies. 4-2-60; # 76-2154. "CEFLA."

Ciarrocchi, Mario. Bishop. 8-23-62; # 123-A. "CIMA."

Chiavacci, Enrico. Professor of Moral Theology, University of Florence, Italy. 7-2-70; # 121-34. "CHIE."

Conte, Carmelo. 9-16-67; # 43-096. "CONCA."

Csele, Alessandro. 3-25-60; # 1354-09. "ALCSE."

Dadagio, Luigi. Papal Nuncio to Spain. ArchBishop of Lero. 9-8-67. # 43-B. "LUDA."

D'Antonio, Enzio. ArchBishop of Trivento. 6-21-69; # 214-53.

De Bous, Donate. Bishop. 6-24-68; # 321-02. "DEBO."

Del Gallo Reoccagiovane, Luigi. Bishop.

Del Monte, Aldo. Bishop of Novara, Italy. 8-25-69; # 32-012. "ADELMO."

Faltin, Danielle. 6-4-70; # 9-1207. "FADA."

Ferraioli, Giuseppe. Member of Sacred Congregation for Public Affairs. 11-24-69; # 004-125. "GIFE."

Franzoni, Giovanni. 3-2-65; # 2246-47. "FRAGI."

Gemmiti, Vito. Sacred Congregation of Bishops. 3-25-68; # 54-13. "VIGE."

Girardi, Giulio. 9-8-70; # 1471-52. "GIG."

Fiorenzo, Angelinin. Bishop. Title of Commendator of the Holy Spirit. Vicar General of Roman Hospitals. Controls hospital trust funds. Consecrated Bishop 7-19-56; joined Masons 10-14-57.

Giustetti, Massimo. 4-12-70; # 13-065. "GIUMA."

Gottardi, Alessandro. Procurator and Postulator General of Fratelli Maristi. ArchBishop of Trent. 6-13-59; # 2437-14. "ALGO."

Gozzini, Mario. 5-14-70; # 31-11. "MAGO."

Grazinai, Carlo. Rector of the Vatican Minor Seminary. 7-23-61; # 156-3. "GRACA."

Gregagnin, Antonio. Tribune of First Causes for Beatification. 10-19-67; # 8-45. "GREA."

Gualdrini, Franco. Rector of Capranica. 5-22-61; # 21-352. "GUFRA."

Ilari, Annibale. Abbot. 3-16-69; # 43-86. "ILA."

Laghi, Pio. Nunzio, Apostolic Delegate to Argentina, and then to U.S.A. until 1995. 8-24-69; # 0-538. "LAPI."

Lajolo, Giovanni. Member of Council of Public Affairs of the Church. 7-27-70; # 21-1397. "LAGI."

Lanzoni, Angelo. Chief of the Office of Secretary of State. 9-24-56; # 6-324. "LANA."

Levi, Virgillio (alias Levine), Monsignor. Assistant Director of Official Vatican Newspaper, L'Osservatore Romano. Manages Vatican Radio Station. 7-4-58; # 241-3. "VILE."

Lozza, Lino. Chancellor of Rome Academy of St. Thomas Aquinas of Catholic Religion. 7-23-69; # 12-768. "LOLI."

Lienart, Achille. Cardinal. Grand Master top Mason. Bishop of Lille, France. Recruits Masons. Was leader of progressive forces at Vatican II Council.

Macchi, Pasquale. Cardinal. Pope Paul's Prelate of Honour and Private Secretary until he was excommunicated for heresy by Pope Paul VI. Was reinstated by Secretary of State Jean Villot, and made a Cardinal. 4-23-58; # 5463-2. "MAPA."

Mancini, Italo. Director of Sua Santita. 3-18-68; # l551-142. "MANI."

Manfrini, Enrico. Lay Consultor of Pontifical Commission of Sacred Art. 2-21-68; # 968-c. "MANE."

Marchisano, Francesco. Prelate Honour of the Pope. Secretary Congregation for Seminaries and Universities of Studies. 2-4-61; 4536-3. "FRAMA."

Marcinkus, Paul. American bodyguard for imposter Pope. From Cicero, Illinois. Stands 6'4". President for Institute for Training Religious. 8-21-67; # 43-649. Called "GORILLA." Code name "MARPA."

Marsili, Saltvatore. Abbot of Order of St. Benedict of Finalpia near Modena, Italy. 7-2-63; # 1278-49. "SALMA."

Mazza, Antonio. Titular Bishop of Velia. Secretary General of Holy Year, 1975. 4-14-71. # 054-329. "MANU."

Mazzi, Venerio. Member of Council of Public Affairs of the Church. 10-13-66; # 052-s. "MAVE."

Mazzoni, Pier Luigi. Congregation of Bishops. 9-14-59; # 59-2. "PILUM."

Maverna, Luigi. Bishop of Chiavari, Genoa, Italy. Assistant General of Italian Catholic Azione. 6-3-68; # 441-c. "LUMA."

Mensa, Albino. ArchBishop of Vercelli, Piedmont, Italy. 7-23-59; # 53-23. " MENA."

Messina, Carlo. 3-21-70; # 21-045. "MECA."

Messina, Zanon (Adele). 9-25-68; # 045-329. " AMEZ."

Monduzzi, Dino. Regent to the Prefect of the Pontifical House. 3-11 -67; # 190-2. "MONDI."

Mongillo, Daimazio. Professor of Dominican Moral Theology, Holy Angels Institute of Roma. 2-16-69; # 2145-22. "MONDA."

Morgante, Marcello. Bishop of Ascoli Piceno in East Italy. 7-22-55; # 78-3601. MORMA."

Natalini, Teuzo. Vice President of the Archives of Secretariat of the Vatican. 6-17-67; # 21-44d. "NATE."

Nigro, Carmelo. Rector of the Seminary, Pontifical of Major Studies. 12-21-70; # 23-154. "CARNI."

Noe, Virgillio. Head of the Sacred Congregation of Divine Worship. He and Bugnini paid 5 Protestant Ministers and one Jewish Rabbi to create the Novus Ordo Mass. 4-3-61; # 43652-21. "VINO."

Palestra, Vittorie. He is Legal Council of the Sacred Rota of the Vatican State. 5-6-43; # 1965. "PAVI."

Pappalardo, Salvatore. Cardinal. ArchBishop of Palermo, Sicily. 4-15-68; # 234-07. "SALPA."

Pasqualetti, Gottardo. 6-15-60; # 4-231. "COPA."

Pasquinelli, Dante. Council of Nunzio of Madrid. 1-12-69; # 32-124. "PADA."

Pellegrino, Michele. Cardinal. Called "Protector of the Church", ArchBishop of Torino (Turin, where the Holy Shroud of Jesus is kept). 5-2-60; # 352-36. "PALMI."

Piana, Giannino. 9-2-70; # 314-52. "GIPI."

Pimpo, Mario. Vicar of Office of General Affairs. 3-15-70; # 793-43. "PIMA."

Pinto, Monsignor Pio Vito. Attaché of Secretary of State and Notare of Second Section of Supreme Tribunal and of Apostolic Signature. 4-2-70; # 3317-42. "PIPIVI."

Poletti, Ugo. Cardinal. Vicar of S.S. Diocese of Rome. Controls clergy of Rome since 3-6-73. Member of Sacred Congregation of Sacraments and of Divine Worship. He is President of Pontifical Works and Preservation of the Faith. Also President of the Liturgical Academy. 2-17-69; # 32-1425. "UPO."

Rizzi, Monsignor Mario. Sacred Congregation of Oriental Rites. Listed as "Prelate Bishop of Honour of the Holy Father, the Pope." Works under top-Mason Mario Brini in manipulating Canon Law. 9-16-69; # 43-179. "MARI," "MONMARI."

Romita, Florenzo. Was in Sacred Congregation of Clergy. 4-21-56; # 52-142. "FIRO."

Rogger, Igine. Officer in S.S. (Diocese of Rome). 4-16-68; # 319-13. "IGRO."

Rossano, Pietro. Sacred Congregation of Non-Christian Religions. 2-12-68; # 3421-a. "PIRO."

Rovela, Virgillio. 6-12-64; # 32-14. "ROVI."

Sabbatani, Aurelio. ArchBishop of Giustiniana (Giusgno, Milar Province, Italy). First Secretary Supreme Apostolic Segnatura. 6-22-69; # 87-43. "ASA"

Sacchetti, Guilio. Delegate of Governors - Marchese. 8-23-59; # 0991-b. "SAGI."

Salerno, Francesco. Bishop. Prefect Atti. Eccles. 5-4-62; # 0437-1. "SAFRA"

Santangelo, Franceso. Substitute General of Defense Legal Counsel. 11-12-70; # 32-096. "FRASA."

Santini, Pietro. Vice Official of the Vicar. 8-23-64; # 326-11. "SAPI."

Savorelli, Fernando. 1-14-69; # 004-51. "SAFE."

Savorelli, Renzo. 6-12-65; # 34-692. "RESA."

Scanagatta, Gaetano. Sacred Congregation of the Clergy. Member of Commission of Pomei and Loreto, Italy. 9-23-71; # 42-023. "GASCA."

Schasching, Giovanni. 3-18-65; # 6374-23. "GISCHA," "GESUITA."

Schierano, Mario. Titular Bishop of Acrida (Acri in Cosenza Province, Italy.) Chief Military Chaplain of the Italian Armed Forces. 7-3-59; #14-3641. "MASCHI."

Semproni, Domenico. Tribunal of the Vicarate of the Vatican. 4-16-60; # 00-12. "DOSE."

Sensi, Giuseppe Mario. Titular ArchBishop of Sardi (Asia Minor near Smyrna). Papal Nunzio to Portugal. 11-2-67; # 18911-47. "GIMASE."

Sposito, Luigi. Pontifical Commission for the Archives of the Church in Italy. Head Administrator of the Apostolic Seat of the Vatican.

Suenens, Leo. Cardinal. Title: Protector of the Church of St. Peter in Chains, outside Rome. Promotes Protestant Pentecostalism (Charismatics). Destroyed much Church dogma when he worked in 3 Sacred Congregations: 1) Propagation of the Faith; 2) Rites and Ceremonies in the Liturgy; 3) Seminaries. 6-15-67; # 21-64. "LESU."

Trabalzini, Dino. Bishop of Rieti (Reate, Peruga, Italy). Auxiliary Bishop of Southern Rome. 2-6-65; # 61-956. "TRADI."

Travia, Antonio. Titular ArchBishop of Termini Imerese. Head of Catholic schools. 9-15-67; # 16-141. "ATRA."

Trocchi, Vittorio. Secretary for Catholic Laity in Consistory of the Vatican State Consultations. 7-12-62; # 3-896. "TROVI."

Tucci, Roberto. Director General of Vatican Radio. 6-21-57; # 42-58. "TURO."

Turoldo, David. 6-9-67; # 191-44. "DATU."

Vale, Georgio. Priest. Official of Rome Diocese. 2-21-71; # 21-328. "VAGI."

Vergari, Piero. Head Protocol Officer of the Vatican Office Segnatura. 12-14-70; # 3241-6. "PIVE."

Villot, Jean. Cardinal. Secretary of State during Pope Paul VI. He is Camerlengo (Treasurer). "JEANNI," "ZURIGO."

Zanini, Lino. Titular ArchBishop of Adrianopoli, which is Andrianopolis, Turkey. Apostolic Nuncio. Member of the Revered Fabric of St. Peter's Basilica.

"Pope John Paul II - Voted in by a Freemason and handed the keys to the Catholic Church by a Freemason.

On September 28, 1978, Pope John Paul I, elected only one month earlier in August, suddenly and mysteriously dies. Less then one month after his death, on October 16, 1978, Karol Jozef Wojtyla takes over the papacy as Pope John Paul II - the defining vote cast for him by Cardinal Sebastiano Baggio, a Freemason.

Baggio, Sebastiano. Cardinal. Prefect of the Sacred Congregation of Bishops. (This is a crucial Congregation since it appoints new Bishops.) Secretary of State under Pope John Paul II from 1989 to 1992. 8-14-57; # 85-1640. Masonic code name "SEBA." He controls consecration of Bishops. (Source: Masons list from the Bulletin de l'Occident Chrétien Nr.12, July, 1976, (Directeur Pierre Fautrad a Fye - 72490 Bourg Le Roi.)

At 6:18 p.m. on the day he is elected Pope, a Cardinal Tisserant announces in the chapel that Karol Wojtyla of Krakow had been elected pontiff of the Roman Catholic Church. Cardinal Jean Villot, the chamberlain, approached Wojtyla and asked in Latin: "In accordance with the canon law, do you accept?" (Source: "Journey to Rome", Newsweek article which ran in The Phoenix Gazette on 4/8/95)

Villot, Jean. Cardinal. Secretary of State during Pope Paul VI. He is Camerlengo (Treasurer). Masonic Code Names: "JEANNI," "ZURIGO." (Source: Masons list from the Bulletin de l'Occident Chrétien Nr.12, July, 1976, (Directeur Pierre Fautrad a Fye - 72490 Bourg Le Roi.)

So there you have it. Pope John Paul II - voted in by a Freemason (Baggio) and handed the keys to the Roman Catholic Church by a Freemason (Villot)."

There you have it Pope John Paul II voted in by an excommunicated Catholic under Canon Law 2338, Cardinal Sebastiano Baggio. John Paul II has since removed the prohibition (on November 27, 1983) regarding Catholics joining the Freemasons. But you see (no pun intended) since his election was invalid he really isn't Pope at all!

"Lest there be any place for error when decision will have to made as to what the opinions of these pernicious sects are, which are under such prohibition, it is especially certain that Freemasonry and other sects of this kind which plot against the Church and lawful powers, whether they do this secretly or openly, whether or not they exact from their followers an oath to preserve secrecy, are condemned by automatic excommunication." (Instruction of the Holy Office, May 10, 1884)

"Those who give their name to (who are members of) the Masonic sect, or other societies of the same nature, that scheme against the Church or lawful civil authority, ipso facto (automatically) contract excommunication [the absolution from which is] reserved to the Holy See." (Canon 2335, 1917 Code of Canon Law) Effective (May 19, 1918)




Copyright © 2004 by Light of Life Ministries.
This page was created on the 28th. of Mar 2004

[Boolerhead Mel]

I would have to agree with Roger-the masons have been in decline for years in the north. My Father in law is one and to this end I had lunch with him a few years ago in rosemary st (think that building is closed now) lovely food by the way. I do not know what they get up at thier meeting but they do organise charity events BBQ's that kind of thing. From what I gather most of them would be very old my father in law is in his early 60's and would be one of the younger ones. I don't think that they have issues with the Catholic church as he attended my kids christening no problem. They have no links with the OO-my father in law detests them however yuo can be in both 

[Roger]

Didn't know Rosemary Street was closed. There seems to be another Temple around the Mount area in east Belfast which maybe is the other big one in Belfast.   The Masons have no issue with religious organisations, it just seems that some religious organisations have issues with them.

A mate of mine actually went to a school run by Masons in Dublin.  His da was big into the Masons and his two brothers were in it too.  However his mother asked him not to join, so he didn't, because it takes over your life with the time involved in it.  It seems his dad and brothers' lives were spent at Masonic things and charity events etc.  The upside was his mother was well looked after financially by the Masons when his dad eventually died. 

[ardmhachaabu]

Ther are plenty of catholics who are masons including priests

I very much doubt that.

The Orange Order is part of freemasonry.

Yeah the following are all members of OO
A List of Masons in the Hierarchy of the Catholic Church


The following is a list of Masons reprinted with some updates from the Bulletin de l'Occident Chrétien Nr.12, July, 1976, (Directeur Pierre Fautrad a Fye - 72490 Bourg Le Roi.) All of the men on this list, if they in fact be Masons, are excommunicated by Canon Law 2338. Each man's name is followed by his position, if known; the date he was initiated into Masonry, his code #; and his code name, if known.

Copyright © 2004 by Light of Life Ministries.
This page was created on the 28th. of Mar 2004

First of all, you have no idea about freemasonry if you believe that the Orange Order aren't very much a part of it, so too with the Black Perceptory Order and there are others...

Secondly, the bit I bolded - by Canon Law even if that list was correct, the people named on it aren't Catholics.

Finally, if you don't think that freemasons claiming such a list of 'Catholics and priests' is a bit suspicious, you are extremely naive.

[AbbeySider]

First of all, you have no idea about freemasonry if you believe that the Orange Order aren't very much a part of it, so too with the Black Perceptory Order and there are others...

Secondly, the bit I bolded - by Canon Law even if that list was correct, the people named on it aren't Catholics.

Finally, if you don't think that freemasons claiming such a list of 'Catholics and priests' is a bit suspicious, you are extremely naive.

I cant believe someone posted a quote from an organisation as wacky and right-wing as they "Light of Life Ministries" 

Lets get real, anything that comes from there (as bad as the Jehovah's... maybe worse in fact)  should be taken with a pinch of salt.
This is the internet, dont believe everything you read.

Maybe there are crossover members from the OO and Masons in the North. As much as I am not comfortable with either organisation, the Masons are not a sectarian movement. Its possible that there are members that are sectarian against Catholics but its also possible that there are members that are sectarian towards Muslims, Jews and Protestants on either side of the border and around the world.

[Roger]

First of all, you have no idea about freemasonry if you believe that the Orange Order aren't very much a part of it, so too with the Black Perceptory Order and there are others...

What others?

I have no doubt that there are members of the Orange and the Black who are members of the Masons.  However, there is no link other than that membership would overlap but Masonry membership would overlap with many many other organisations across this planet. 

The OO was set up after the Masons and as a fraternal society would probably have been influenced by what the Masons do e.g. degree process, lodge meeting style, the apron members of the Black wears etc.  However there has historically been resistence within the OO to too much influence from the Masons e.g. the Royal Arch Purple degree in the Orange was seen as too Masonic and ritualistic and it wasn't brought in for some time to the OO. Think it was back in the early 1900s when it was officially introduced.   

There are people in Ireland and throughout the world who like these types of fraternal organisation however just because a membership may overlap, or some bits of one may influence the develop of another, it doesn't mean that they are the same. 

Without providing any evidence, saying that the 'OO is part of Freemasonry' is reckless, misleading and seemingly inaccurate.