Down Club Hurling & Football

[Johnnysboys]

Smurfy, I doubt that these men are being overlooked so much as either having too much sense, or not having enough time, to manage their own clubs (or both).

——

The one thing that the mercenary managers of our association have managed to do over the past 20 years, is change the mindset of the average player.

Once upon a time, players had a better understanding of their natural bars. Not so much these days, where they're inclined to believe that the gap between them and a county player can be bridged through dedication to S&C, a risk-adverse playing style, and eons of stats to help them learn.

The problem for the player is that if county players also follow this regime, then the gap never actually closes. We just end up with a more boring game. But that doesn't stop their demands.

The problem for clubs is that players now demand absolute attention. They want to train 3-4 times a week, all year round, and must be able to enjoy neverending variations on the same drills. They demand someone to monitor their vital statistics and their explosive performance. They expect video and statistical analysis of their matches, whether friendlies against junior sides, or senior championship knockouts, and pretend to learn from this data - to the point that they want their in-house matches analysed same way. They gain fulfilment from a weekly hour long one-on-one call about match-ups and (mostly fictional) kick out routines and transition strategies.

——

The only person who can give that sort of commitment to players for any length of time, is someone who is retired, or someone on the payroll.

So whether the outside manager is better or not doesn't overly matter.

Chances are he's not. Have a look at the host of names on the Down circuit who've never improved a club, yet pick one up every year, and you could make a strong case that he's clearly not.

But he brings his time, which is what players want, and he usually brings all the pointless expensive tools like GPS analysis with him, which is also what players want. They don't know why. But they do know that if [insert rival club name] have it, then they must have it too.

I don't like it. But it's the world we live in.

This is class.. it should be read at club AGMs to the people that matter - the community..  So many self proclaimed "coaches" who love the spotlight are on the circuit and never really improve the clubs they are with. If they get within 3 points of kilcoo or beat CPN that's what they base their "coaching philosophy " on - improvement!!!
I'm not old fashioned enough to realise the game hasn't changed and there is a need at times for GPS and analysis of games. But the constant drive to do what your neighbour is doing or what the county champions are doing is ridiculous.. work with the players at your disposal but don't take away from their game by putting them into a "system" that goes against what the game is about which is scoring more than your opponent.

[sdg]

Don't label all of Down in that vein please.. His antics didn't work though. On another note today I seen a referee who had the balls to move a free in when Rian O'Neill was kicking it and 3 Derry players were standing in front of him roaring at nothing in particular.. Imagine the amount of frees that would be moved forward against kilcoo if we had any referees (apart from Falloon) who had the stomach to stand up to them???  Knew the rule existed and knew they were getting away with murder..

Bernie Ruane won underage titles yes but had his chance with us at senior level and didn't cut it.
G Poland, McKernan are in back room teams but not front line there is a massive difference.  Johnston's had the success but mostly with 2 teams from the club. They ain't winnin as many 'A' titles further down the age groups. Last years minors could be their last for a while..
[/quote

Ruane didn't cut at senior, I think u will find he won Down intermediate, ulster Intermediate and division 2, in his 1st year then kept us in the 1st division for the 1st time in nearly 40 years all the while bringing in all the underage players and getting rid of the deadwood. And left a ready made team for the next man coming in.

[Johnnysboys]

Don't label all of Down in that vein please.. His antics didn't work though. On another note today I seen a referee who had the balls to move a free in when Rian O'Neill was kicking it and 3 Derry players were standing in front of him roaring at nothing in particular.. Imagine the amount of frees that would be moved forward against kilcoo if we had any referees (apart from Falloon) who had the stomach to stand up to them???  Knew the rule existed and knew they were getting away with murder..

Bernie Ruane won underage titles yes but had his chance with us at senior level and didn't cut it.
G Poland, McKernan are in back room teams but not front line there is a massive difference.  Johnston's had the success but mostly with 2 teams from the club. They ain't winnin as many 'A' titles further down the age groups. Last years minors could be their last for a while..
[/quote

Ruane didn't cut at senior, I think u will find he won Down intermediate, ulster Intermediate and division 2, in his 1st year then kept us in the 1st division for the 1st time in nearly 40 years all the while bringing in all the underage players and getting rid of the deadwood. And left a ready made team for the next man coming in.

Exactly
A down and ulster INTERMEDIATE.. his success was staying in division 1 and nothing else. But he did that to his credit.. if we are being honest the management that have just departed we're not a "success" either. No titles in 4 years is poor. Let's see what Mulholland and Poland can do..

[sdg]

Don't label all of Down in that vein please.. His antics didn't work though. On another note today I seen a referee who had the balls to move a free in when Rian O'Neill was kicking it and 3 Derry players were standing in front of him roaring at nothing in particular.. Imagine the amount of frees that would be moved forward against kilcoo if we had any referees (apart from Falloon) who had the stomach to stand up to them???  Knew the rule existed and knew they were getting away with murder..

Bernie Ruane won underage titles yes but had his chance with us at senior level and didn't cut it.
G Poland, McKernan are in back room teams but not front line there is a massive difference.  Johnston's had the success but mostly with 2 teams from the club. They ain't winnin as many 'A' titles further down the age groups. Last years minors could be their last for a while..
[/quote

Ruane didn't cut at senior, I think u will find he won Down intermediate, ulster Intermediate and division 2, in his 1st year then kept us in the 1st division for the 1st time in nearly 40 years all the while bringing in all the underage players and getting rid of the deadwood. And left a ready made team for the next man coming in.

Exactly
A down and ulster INTERMEDIATE.. his success was staying in division 1 and nothing else. But he did that to his credit.. if we are being honest the management that have just departed we're not a "success" either. No titles in 4 years is poor. Let's see what Mulholland and Poland can do..

Johnnysboy exactly I think ur missing the point, we were a club that maybe got promoted 6 or 7 times over a 40 year period and went straight back down every year until 2015. Maybe your  1 of these new people that started hanging about the club in recent years but the ulster Intermediate win was my best day as a blue the catalyst for we are now.

[whitegoodman]

Is Jim McCorry from Cross ??

[SHEEDY]

Is Jim McCorry from Cross ??

thats what was being said on here by the people in the know   

[whitegoodman]

Indeed

[Godsown]

White smoke at St Mary's I hear

[Smurfy123]

Big coup for Burren but I think it's to little to late
An ageing team and the all conquering under 17 will need a year or 2 yet
Burren have little left in the tank
Toners x 2
Rooney
McKernan
McArdle
Murdock x2
McEntee x2
McGovern x1
Poland
McKay


All the above have been great servants but they won't play much more
Fegans
O hare
Kerr

They don't have much more stand out players after that

[whitegoodman]

Conor Toner and McArdle are both shy of 30.  Gerard McGovern and Cathal Foy will still be around as well. There will be 3-4 of the under 17 team integrated fairly sharpish.

The likes of McKernan and Conal McGovern will still be about to make a bit of an impact at club football and help mentor the younger lads.

Was McCorry first choice for CPN ?

[Smurfy123]

Yes McCorry was first choice for us but he has went up the road
McCorry is a serial winner
Toner and McArdle have had a lot of injuries. McCorry may get the last bit out of them
Of the all conquering 17s who can't step in straight away ?

Magill
McCarthy
Murdock

Anyone else?

[downjim]

Jim has a great record of introducing youth and its  great appointment.

[sdg]

Conor Toner and McArdle are both shy of 30.  Gerard McGovern and Cathal Foy will still be around as well. There will be 3-4 of the under 17 team integrated fairly sharpish.

The likes of McKernan and Conal McGovern will still be about to make a bit of an impact at club football and help mentor the younger lads.

Was McCorry first choice for CPN ?

Was McCorry first choice for Burren?

[No1]

——

The one thing that the mercenary managers of our association have managed to do over the past 20 years, is change the mindset of the average player.

Once upon a time, players had a better understanding of their natural bars. Not so much these days, where they're inclined to believe that the gap between them and a county player can be bridged through dedication to S&C, a risk-adverse playing style, and eons of stats to help them learn.

The problem for the player is that if county players also follow this regime, then the gap never actually closes. We just end up with a more boring game. But that doesn't stop their demands.

The problem for clubs is that players now demand absolute attention. They want to train 3-4 times a week, all year round, and must be able to enjoy neverending variations on the same drills. They demand someone to monitor their vital statistics and their explosive performance. They expect video and statistical analysis of their matches, whether friendlies against junior sides, or senior championship knockouts, and pretend to learn from this data - to the point that they want their in-house matches analysed same way. They gain fulfilment from a weekly hour long one-on-one call about match-ups and (mostly fictional) kick out routines and transition strategies.

——

The only person who can give that sort of commitment to players for any length of time, is someone who is retired, or someone on the payroll.

So whether the outside manager is better or not doesn't overly matter.

Chances are he's not. Have a look at the host of names on the Down circuit who've never improved a club, yet pick one up every year, and you could make a strong case that he's clearly not.

But he brings his time, which is what players want, and he usually brings all the pointless expensive tools like GPS analysis with him, which is also what players want. They don't know why. But they do know that if [insert rival club name] have it, then they must have it too.

I don't like it. But it's the world we live in.

Wobbler, that is the best thing I have read on this thread in a very very long time.  Absolutely nailed it.

[Johnnysboys]

Jim has a great record of introducing youth and its  great appointment.

It's a good appointment and history shows he took a great underage team in mayobridge to senior success and did likewise with kilcoo in 2012 and 2013.. whether he can do the same with Burren remains to be seen..  at Clonduff with a team of serial underage winners (particularly minor age) he did nothing and after the debacle with down he was at his native county for the last while.

I think the burren players mentioned on here still have quite a bit in the tank if looked after correctly and Jim has the experience to do that.. Their first port of call is to break into the top two of the county and then win the down title again.. 
keeping Gearoid Adams with Jim and adding last years minor management to his back room shows the intent on getting these young lads through... pressure is on...