Is Club Success an Indication that

Started by Dinny Breen, December 11, 2006, 03:56:47 PM

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Dinny Breen

good times lie ahead for the county team or is that entirely wishful thinking, I mean Armagh, Galway and Mayo have produced strong club sides in the last few and their county football teams would be in the top 6 in the country....

Congrats to Confey who beat Ciaran McManus's Tubber to claim the Leinster Intermediate, always nice to beat the Biffos...... ;D

Moorefield - Leinster Senior Football Champions
Confey - Leinster Intermediate Football Champions
Ardclough - Leinster Intermediate Hurling Champions
Eadestown - Ladies All Ireland Junior Football Champions

I just can't ever remember the club game ever been stronger in Kildare...
#newbridgeornowhere

tayto

I think gernerally it's a good sign alright, especially if it's more the one club doing well.

AZOffaly

Quoteespecially if it's more the one club doing well.

That's the key, a strong championship, rather than strong teams every so often. Eire Óg were one of the top sides in Ireland, as were Clann na Gael from Roscommon, Carlow and Roscommon didn't do too much in their peaks though. I think that, apart from the obvious Crossmaglen exception, any county where a club wins 3 or more in a row are going to struggle to win at Inter County Level.

Dinny Breen

Well Towers should have beaten Moorefield in the Semi, we lost by a point and a dubious penalty and Allenwood felt they left it behind them in the final. The Kildare Championship at Senior and Intermediate is very competitive with 4 different clubs winning the senior over the last 6 years. Sarsfields had a Leinster in them as well.

Now if only we had a manager...

#newbridgeornowhere

Lone Shark

I've priced a lot of these club championships, and as a rule, one dominant club is seriously bad news, particularly when they tend to stroll out of their county. This probably explains Armagh being the exception since Dromintee and a few otehrs have rattled Cross's cage on a few occasions.

As per AZ's examples, I'll see your Clan na Gael and Éire Óg and raise you a Rathnew, Cavan Gaels or Doonbeg.

A competitive club championship combined with the eventual winner being successful is just gravy. Certainly the signs are good from a Kildare perspective, because that championship is as competitive as it comes. 

youbetterbelieveit

ya well if the standard is just bad, then nothing can be done, limerick football and hurling have had different winners over the last number of years, however when they come to play munster club provincial champioship, they get there arse's kicked.

Barney

Don't worry Dinny the Lilywhite jersies will be put away before action in the Emirates gets underway for 07/08 ;)

Seriously I think a few clubs have to succeed for it to matter.

From a Mayo point of view since 1993 Castlebar, Knockmore, Ballina x 2 and Crossmolina all got to the Final indicating that the club scene stood up well to its counterparts.

Caltra and Corofin led the way for Galway, with Salthill to a lesser degree (considering the outsiders).

Nemo and Ballinderry are perfect examples that one clubs success does not guarantee the county a good run.

Of course the success can be a bad team with panel members missing from training causing discontent and lack of a settled team.

So its a case by case stanard for me.

DJGaliv

There are drawbacks with having a club doing well. For example, when Caltra won the all-Ireland a few years ago, Mike Meehan was drained by the time inter-county championship began. Some of these lads are playing far too much football, and need a break. With the club finals on in March, that means that lads are playing right through their recovery season. It's not good for the player, or the county. When Salthill won the club, you could see Donnellan was practically carrying that team, and when it came to championship he was shot.
While club success on the national stage may be good for a county's morale, but I don't think it's hugely beneficial to a county who have had inter-county success in the last ten-fifteen years. Some counties do however need a club of theirs to win on the national stage to act as a platform, showing them the way it's done.
For other counties it's just a nuisance, missing players for league games, and some players not being fresh enough when it matters a few months down the line.

ONeill

I suppose the animals are always the benchmark. 5 times they've won the All-Ireland Club - 1971 (Offaly took Sam), 1977 (Jackeens), 1985 (Animals themselves), 1992 (Donegal) and 1996 (Thugs). So apart from '85 when Monaghan let them off the hook, the Zoolanders rarely lifted the 2 All-Irelands in the one year. However the Jackeens' last Sam coincided with Kilmacud lifting the Club.

My point is points are pointless.
I wanna have my kicks before the whole shithouse goes up in flames.

Mayo4Sam

Quote from: Barney on December 11, 2006, 05:15:53 PM
Don't worry Dinny the Lilywhite jersies will be put away before action in the Emirates gets underway for 07/08 ;)

Seriously I think a few clubs have to succeed for it to matter.

From a Mayo point of view since 1993 Castlebar, Knockmore, Ballina x 2 and Crossmolina all got to the Final indicating that the club scene stood up well to its counterparts.

Caltra and Corofin led the way for Galway, with Salthill to a lesser degree (considering the outsiders).

Nemo and Ballinderry are perfect examples that one clubs success does not guarantee the county a good run.

Of course the success can be a bad team with panel members missing from training causing discontent and lack of a settled team.

So its a case by case stanard for me.

Cross X 2, credit where credit is due
Excuse me for talking while you're trying to interrupt me

Billy Magoo

I disagree that good club sucess leads to good things for the county.  In Derry there is probably the most competitive club championship in Ulster if not Ireland.  In the last 4 years, 4 different teams have won it.  There are 4 and maybe 5 teams who will begin next year with a chance of winning the club championship.  By this thinking Derry shouuld be setting the county scene alight, but as you can see they are not.  Maybe the clubs in Derry are too focused on winning the club championship and not as concerned with winning and Ulster championship with Derry.  I don't know.

The Bottom Brick

I think there's so many examples of each that it's obvious there is no reliable correlation between club and county success.

All an All Ireland winning club side means for the county is that you have a couple of top class players who know how to do the business in big games - nothing more, nothing less.

33, 35, 47, 48, 52, 07!

tayto

Quote from: Billy Magoo on December 12, 2006, 08:56:38 AM
I disagree that good club sucess leads to good things for the county.  In Derry there is probably the most competitive club championship in Ulster if not Ireland.  In the last 4 years, 4 different teams have won it.  There are 4 and maybe 5 teams who will begin next year with a chance of winning the club championship.  By this thinking Derry shouuld be setting the county scene alight, but as you can see they are not.  Maybe the clubs in Derry are too focused on winning the club championship and not as concerned with winning and Ulster championship with Derry.  I don't know.

I think the point is that you need more then one club gong well when they emerge out of the county, then it's an indicator that the standard in the county is strong.

If you've a high standard and lots of clubs at the top end of the standard then logically you've a decent pick of players. If you've a good standard but it's dominated by one or two clubs then your choice is restricted. all of this is just indicators, by the same tolken if the standard in the county is poor then you're likely to have a very competitive county championship but fall flat in the provincial champioship. all that dosent always add up though. 

The Flamin

not really a proper indication in my mind. as was said a savage player can haul a team along at club level. earley for sarsfields, johnny doyle allenwood. there is talk in lily land that has half the moores team startin for kildare. we need to calm down. all it means is lads are playing to a higher level than usual, that doesnt mean they are ready for inter county level.

milltown row

No, Naomh Gall of Antrim would compete with most teams in Ireland. But because we had so many players on the Antrim panel I think it was a hindrance. You only have to look at the dominant force in Tyrone, Carickmore; they only have one player on the panel. If Antrim had a club work ethic, where's there are players willing to go through a brick wall for each other, managers and clubmen. It's only when counties get that sort of commitment that they can get to that level. Antrim have players to compete at the business end of things they just need to stop hating each other, internal fighting stops Antrim.

do other counties fail on the field because of the infighting?