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Quote from: T Fearon on November 01, 2015, 06:04:06 PM
Attended a very interesting debate on the implications of a Brexit, in Newry last Thursday morning.Bertie was one of the speakers.Few eye openers, not least of which is the absolute dread of the free state business community and political parties of a Brexit.Independance? Celebrating 1916 centenary? My Arse.

Quote from: T Fearon on November 01, 2015, 06:55:33 PM
Simple point.Why does anything the British do,politically or otherwise,concern Irish politicians,except some action that affects the North? Also crapping your kacks at the prospect of Britain leaving the EU,does not suggest that Ireland is in any way independent.

Quote from: seafoid on November 01, 2015, 06:59:54 PM
Brexit would not be economically advantageous for the UK. Brexit could lead to a lot of unintended consequences. The Tories are hostage to their eurosceptic wing and Labour are led by Corbyn, neither of which are ideal in this case.

Quote from: Kursk on November 01, 2015, 08:58:29 PM
but if we exited the Euro as well we'd be free to choose whatever monetary policy suits us best. Britain can continue to be our biggest trading partner.

Quote from: Rossfan on November 01, 2015, 09:32:35 PM

Quote from: Kursk on November 01, 2015, 08:58:29 PM
but if we exited the Euro as well we'd be free to choose whatever monetary policy suits us best. Britain can continue to be our biggest trading partner.

If we exit the Euro and the E U we will be fcuked - in the real world that is.
In fantasy land as inhabited by various loonylefties , extreme right neo Nazis and "Kursk" anything is possible and if someone says something can be done then that's it sorted.
A bit like Alice in wonderland. ;D

Quote from: T Fearon on November 02, 2015, 07:22:40 AM
But it is reckoned that Britain and Ireland could reach a trade agreement fairly easily,so that is obviously not the main reason for Irish nervousness

Quote from: LeoMc on November 02, 2015, 08:07:42 AM

Quote from: T Fearon on November 02, 2015, 07:22:40 AM
But it is reckoned that Britain and Ireland could reach a trade agreement fairly easily,so that is obviously not the main reason for Irish nervousness

Could any EU state just set up a unilateral trade agreement with a non EU state?

Quote from: T Fearon on November 01, 2015, 06:55:33 PM
Simple point.Why does anything the British do,politically or otherwise,concern Irish politicians,except some action that affects the North? Also crapping your kacks at the prospect of Britain leaving the EU,does not suggest that Ireland is in any way independent.

Quote from: T Fearon on November 01, 2015, 09:10:35 PM
I sensed trade was a large part of it,obviously,although those who favoured an exit maintained that special trade agreements would be drawn up to protect this,and there would be no return to customs posts at the North South Border.But I also got a strong sense that the co operation perceived to be required to sort out the six counties was also very important to the 26 counties.Do they really fear a break up of the U.K. could destabilise the UK to the extent that without Britain as an EU partner the South might have to deal with the North unaided?

I was really surprised by the tangible panic a potential Brexit is causing in the 26 counties which is unfathomable and irrational

Quote from: Bord na Mona man on November 02, 2015, 10:57:17 AM
I'm not sure why and heed should be taken of Bertie Ahern.

Quote from: Bord na Mona man on November 02, 2015, 10:57:17 AM
I'm not sure why and heed should be taken of Bertie Ahern.

Quote from: deiseach on November 02, 2015, 03:26:33 PM
It was a White Anglo-Saxon Panic.

Quote from: muppet on November 02, 2015, 07:31:03 PM
Why is there a full stop in the thread title?

Is this significant?

QuoteThere has hardly been a year when the EU has not been on the brink of some crisis: banking, sovereign debt, Russia's annexation of Crimea and now refugees. You can always point fingers at individual politicians and assign blame. But it is highly implausible that the EU's serial failures can always be explained as the product of accident and malice.

I put it down to two catastrophic errors committed during the 1990s and at the beginning of this millennium. The first was the introduction of the euro; the second, the EU's enlargement to 28 members from 15 a couple of decades ago. You might agree with one or other of these statements, or with neither of them. But few people will agree with both.

I was among those who supported monetary union at the time of its introduction. Advocates of the euro at the time came from two different groups, who struck a Faustian Pact.

Members of the first group believed the euro as constructed would fail, and hoped it would somehow be fixed. The others thought the system would stay rigid, and bend the economies of its members into a new shape. This latter group knew that, to withstand the rigours of a fixed-exchange system that resembles nothing so much as the gold standard, countries would have to adjust to economic shocks through shifts in wages and prices — a course, they believed, that the euro's members would be forced to take.

The admission that the euro was a mistake should not be confused with a desire to dissolve it. That would be even more catastrophic. It is merely a recognition that we are trapped in a dysfunctional monetary system.

But how does enlargement play into this? This is not an argument about any particular member state with whose actions one happens to disagree. Nor is it an argument about the principle of enlargement, which is fundamental to the EU. My quarrel is with the speed of accession, and the criteria that aspiring members have to meet. Just as countries have maximum absorption capacities for migrants, the EU has a maximum absorption capacity for new members. I have no idea what that number is in any given time period, but it surely is not 13 members in a single decade.

Enlargement affected Europe's ability to respond to the shocks of subsequent years in two ways. First, it forced the EU to take its eye off the ball at a critical time when it should have focused on building the institutions needed to make the euro work. Second, enlargement meant that EU countries that were not in the eurozone suddenly found themselves in the majority. That shift naturally shaped the EU's own agenda. I recall the obsession during those years with competitiveness, a typical small-country economic issue. Debates on the reform of Europe's treaties during those years focused on voting rights and the protection of minorities. It was the overwhelming view of European officials and members of the European Parliament that the eurozone itself did not need to be fixed.

At that time it would have been comparatively easy to set up a banking union. But once the crisis set in, and banks suffered huge losses, countries could no longer share their deposit insurance schemes, let alone to create a single one for everybody. After the crisis had started, the debate about common insurance mechanisms became intertwined with one about transfers. The crisis thus rudely interrupted the EU's time-honoured, step-by-step approach to integration.

An optimist might interject at this point that it is worth hanging in there. Crises come and go. The EU will still be there. Perhaps so, but then ask yourself: why was the period from the 1950s to the late 1990s more stable compared with the period since?

In the first years of the then European Economic Community, the external security risks were taken care of by Nato. There were almost no risks to financial stability because regulation was extremely stringent by today's standards. While the economic shocks, such as the oil and inflation crises of the 1970s, were no less severe than today, EU members had the ability to absorb them through flexible exchange rates.

Today Brussels suddenly has to look after its own foreign policy interests and run the world's second-largest economy. The EU is not institutionally ready for either job. And its leaders are intellectually not ready either.

We should expect to see more crises, more unilateral action by member states, greater willingness to explore opt-outs, invocation of exceptional circumstances to suspend EU-level action, more rule breaking and the like.

The real risk is not a formal break-up. That would be technically hard to do. But this is no consolation. The real danger is that the EU is simply going to wither away and turn into a ghost.

Quote from: T Fearon on November 02, 2015, 06:08:41 PM
Bit ironic all the same,that it was the freestate contingent,there in the capacity of "good neighbours" who were more exercised about the prospect of a Brexit than any of the Northern or "UK Mainland" contingent.Still don't understand this.

Quote from: BennyCake on November 02, 2015, 02:39:59 AM
Ireland were the political and economic outcast of Europe after deciding not to join the allies in WW2. The repercussions were felt for years. It still tarnishes Ireland's reputation, and Ireland will always bow down, cap in hand to the evil global administrations, and do whatever they say because of it.  Ireland had to lick Europe's arsehole and enter the EEC in the 70s (after being turned down).

Ireland, and all countries want, and need to join the EU otherwise they'll be outcasts and the country will be fucked (moreso than it is already). In an ideal world most people would say "feck Europe", but it's not that simple.

Quote from: Arthur_Friend on November 03, 2015, 08:57:43 PM

Quote from: BennyCake on November 02, 2015, 02:39:59 AM
Ireland were the political and economic outcast of Europe after deciding not to join the allies in WW2. The repercussions were felt for years. It still tarnishes Ireland's reputation, and Ireland will always bow down, cap in hand to the evil global administrations, and do whatever they say because of it.  Ireland had to lick Europe's arsehole and enter the EEC in the 70s (after being turned down).

Ireland, and all countries want, and need to join the EU otherwise they'll be outcasts and the country will be fucked (moreso than it is already). In an ideal world most people would say "feck Europe", but it's not that simple.

The Germans are still raging the Republic of Ireland didn't declare war on them in 1939? Right.

Quote from: Kursk on November 03, 2015, 10:24:32 PM

Quote from: Arthur_Friend on November 03, 2015, 08:57:43 PM

Quote from: BennyCake on November 02, 2015, 02:39:59 AM
Ireland were the political and economic outcast of Europe after deciding not to join the allies in WW2. The repercussions were felt for years. It still tarnishes Ireland's reputation, and Ireland will always bow down, cap in hand to the evil global administrations, and do whatever they say because of it.  Ireland had to lick Europe's arsehole and enter the EEC in the 70s (after being turned down).

Ireland, and all countries want, and need to join the EU otherwise they'll be outcasts and the country will be fucked (moreso than it is already). In an ideal world most people would say "feck Europe", but it's not that simple.

The Germans are still raging the Republic of Ireland didn't declare war on them in 1939? Right.

As flippant as that thought may be, do you think we would have been better off declaring a side one way or the other ?

Quote from: Rossfan on November 05, 2015, 11:21:08 AM
Would cost the 26 Co economy €3Bn per annum in lost trade per the ESRI.

Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 05, 2015, 07:17:40 AM
Do people think a Brexit will come about?

Quote from: Clov on November 05, 2015, 12:05:09 PM
Don't underestimate English indifference to how their neighbours (and the wider world) views them. I live in the south of England and i was struck by how uninformed on even the basic terms of the independence debate some English friends of mine were.

Quote from: deiseach on November 05, 2015, 12:19:20 PM

Quote from: Clov on November 05, 2015, 12:05:09 PM
Don't underestimate English indifference to how their neighbours (and the wider world) views them. I live in the south of England and i was struck by how uninformed on even the basic terms of the independence debate some English friends of mine were.

Do you think 'indifference' will make them more or less likely to vote for Brexit?

Quote from: T Fearon on November 01, 2015, 06:55:33 PM
Simple point.Why does anything the British do,politically or otherwise,concern Irish politicians,except some action that affects the North?

Quote from: Rossfan on November 05, 2015, 04:32:44 PM
How much of GB's exports go to the EU?
Who will they sell to if they pull out?
By the way I believe us little 4.6m are GB's 4 largest export market.

Quote from: seafoid on February 17, 2016, 10:46:40 AM
It is just too uncertain for the UK to leave

Quote from: No wides on February 17, 2016, 10:50:08 AM

Quote from: seafoid on February 17, 2016, 10:46:40 AM
It is just too uncertain for the UK to leave

The people of the UK will leave

Quote from: Rossfan on February 17, 2016, 10:53:06 AM

Quote from: No wides on February 17, 2016, 10:50:08 AM

Quote from: seafoid on February 17, 2016, 10:46:40 AM
It is just too uncertain for the UK to leave

The people of the UK will leave

A new prophet ::)

Quote from: armaghniac on February 17, 2016, 10:55:28 AM
I think the DUP have lost the plot on this one, especially with a leader from a border agricultural constituency. Whatever plans the London government have for any money by not contributing to the EU, sending it to NI would not be at the front of the list and small farmers would not be high on the list either. The EU provides a convenient politics free framework for cooperation on the island of Ireland, Brexit endangers all this. Some of the looper end of unionism hope for a fence along the border as a consequence and would have support in Britain for this kind of thing among the out crowd. This isn't very likely in practice, but anything remotely along those lines, customs posts, ID checks etc would kick off the whole thing in the 6 counties again. So people will want a lot of specific Anglo-Irish agreements to stop this, and this will involve more explicit arrangements than just coming in under the EU umbrella. As many non looper unionists will see that the present situation with both parts of Ireland in the EU is a stable one, and Brexit introducing possible destabilising factors including a renewed pressure for Scottish independence, so they will probably vote no, and so the DUP will be backing the losers.

Quote from: No wides on February 17, 2016, 01:25:03 PM
Again is this the white city?

Quote from: muppet on February 17, 2016, 01:00:25 PM
Why are people using logic and reason to analyse the DUP position?

Ideology means everything to them, as it does to some other parties (and religions) around here. Independent thinking is not encouraged.

Quote from: Hound on February 18, 2016, 09:11:35 AM
Personally I don't think our exports to the UK would reduce by any significant amount if UK left the EU. It would be better if they stayed in, but there's a lot of Y2K type scaremongering going on. Post Brexit, neither UK nor EU will do anything to damage trade links between the two.

Quote from: deiseach on February 18, 2016, 09:39:05 AM

Quote from: Hound on February 18, 2016, 09:11:35 AM
Personally I don't think our exports to the UK would reduce by any significant amount if UK left the EU. It would be better if they stayed in, but there's a lot of Y2K type scaremongering going on. Post Brexit, neither UK nor EU will do anything to damage trade links between the two.

They may not want to damage trade links, but once they get down to negotiations then all kind of taboos will be on the table. Brexit, should it happen, is going to be fuelled by a desire to restrict freedom of movement. There's absolutely no way the EU would tolerate a situation where there are restrictions on EU citizens entering the UK without responding in kind. There are bound to be extra costs for Irish exports to the UK. Although that has to be a mere bagatelle when set against having to produce a passport every time we enter the UK. I wonder whether my sense of national pride would weaken upon the sight of Mrs d sauntering through while Herr Flick interrogates me on my employment status and whether the boy has anything that might make him a medical tourist!

Quote from: Hound on February 18, 2016, 01:21:18 PM

Quote from: deiseach on February 18, 2016, 09:39:05 AM

Quote from: Hound on February 18, 2016, 09:11:35 AM
Personally I don't think our exports to the UK would reduce by any significant amount if UK left the EU. It would be better if they stayed in, but there's a lot of Y2K type scaremongering going on. Post Brexit, neither UK nor EU will do anything to damage trade links between the two.

They may not want to damage trade links, but once they get down to negotiations then all kind of taboos will be on the table. Brexit, should it happen, is going to be fuelled by a desire to restrict freedom of movement. There's absolutely no way the EU would tolerate a situation where there are restrictions on EU citizens entering the UK without responding in kind. There are bound to be extra costs for Irish exports to the UK. Although that has to be a mere bagatelle when set against having to produce a passport every time we enter the UK. I wonder whether my sense of national pride would weaken upon the sight of Mrs d sauntering through while Herr Flick interrogates me on my employment status and whether the boy has anything that might make him a medical tourist!

All scaremongering in my view.

Not needing a passport to get into the UK from Ireland has nothing to do with the EU.

At the moment you need a passport to go from the rest of the EU to get into the UK. You don't need a passport to go from Ireland to the UK. That won't change post Brexit (so long as Ireland don't join Schengen, which we won't).

And the chances of EU or UK imposing tariffs on imports/exports are remote, to say the least. If/when Brexit looks like becoming a reality, the powers that be will make every effort to ensure it doesn't impact on EU-UK trade. Of course, that won't be broadcast in the short term, as we want to encourage the UK to stay rather than play down potential exit issues.

Quote from: GJL on February 19, 2016, 10:11:20 PM
So it's a no then?

Quote from: GJL on February 19, 2016, 10:11:20 PM
So it's a no then?

Quote from: armaghniac on February 19, 2016, 11:21:05 PM
The whole thing is bollix, little Englanders harkening back to Empire. The "benefits", is children's allowances which is about £30m, or less than 50p per person. You'd pay that for a decade for the cost of running the referendum.

Quote from: armaghniac on February 19, 2016, 11:21:05 PM
The whole thing is bollix, little Englanders harkening back to Empire.

Quote from: Minder on February 19, 2016, 11:23:36 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on February 19, 2016, 11:21:05 PM
The whole thing is bollix, little Englanders harkening back to Empire. The "benefits", is children's allowances which is about £30m, or less than 50p per person. You'd pay that for a decade for the cost of running the referendum.

It's all benefits is it not ?

Quote from: armaghniac on February 19, 2016, 11:44:51 PM

Quote from: Minder on February 19, 2016, 11:23:36 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on February 19, 2016, 11:21:05 PM
The whole thing is bollix, little Englanders harkening back to Empire. The "benefits", is children's allowances which is about £30m, or less than 50p per person. You'd pay that for a decade for the cost of running the referendum.

It's all benefits is it not ?

Its "in work" benefits. You can't just come and claim the dole in any case.

Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 20, 2016, 12:03:11 AM
What would the farmers do without their free money every year?

Quote from: Minder on February 20, 2016, 12:27:33 AM

Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 20, 2016, 12:03:11 AM
What would the farmers do without their free money every year?

And all the "community workers".

Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2016, 11:24:11 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on February 19, 2016, 11:21:05 PM
The whole thing is bollix, little Englanders harkening back to Empire.

+1.
"Deal" is a fig leaf for Cameron to trumpet a stunning victory over those Europeans blah blah blah....

Quote from: screenexile on February 18, 2016, 01:37:42 PM

Quote from: Hound on February 18, 2016, 01:21:18 PM

Quote from: deiseach on February 18, 2016, 09:39:05 AM

Quote from: Hound on February 18, 2016, 09:11:35 AM
Personally I don't think our exports to the UK would reduce by any significant amount if UK left the EU. It would be better if they stayed in, but there's a lot of Y2K type scaremongering going on. Post Brexit, neither UK nor EU will do anything to damage trade links between the two.

They may not want to damage trade links, but once they get down to negotiations then all kind of taboos will be on the table. Brexit, should it happen, is going to be fuelled by a desire to restrict freedom of movement. There's absolutely no way the EU would tolerate a situation where there are restrictions on EU citizens entering the UK without responding in kind. There are bound to be extra costs for Irish exports to the UK. Although that has to be a mere bagatelle when set against having to produce a passport every time we enter the UK. I wonder whether my sense of national pride would weaken upon the sight of Mrs d sauntering through while Herr Flick interrogates me on my employment status and whether the boy has anything that might make him a medical tourist!

All scaremongering in my view.

Not needing a passport to get into the UK from Ireland has nothing to do with the EU.

At the moment you need a passport to go from the rest of the EU to get into the UK. You don't need a passport to go from Ireland to the UK. That won't change post Brexit (so long as Ireland don't join Schengen, which we won't).

And the chances of EU or UK imposing tariffs on imports/exports are remote, to say the least. If/when Brexit looks like becoming a reality, the powers that be will make every effort to ensure it doesn't impact on EU-UK trade. Of course, that won't be broadcast in the short term, as we want to encourage the UK to stay rather than play down potential exit issues.

I don't know what way it will affect our business. We export Irish Pharmaceuticals to the UK/EEA but this is only possible due to the free movement of goods across member states.

There will be huge regulatory issues around this for us and the rest of the Pharmaceutical industry if the UK leave the EU!

Quote from: Shamrock Shore on February 22, 2016, 10:51:42 AM
If UK exits then I'm opening a duty free shop either side of the bawdah.

Would Slab have a ploh-a-land to sell to cover the auld tax bill, I wonder?
A site that straddles same said bawdah?

Quote from: Farrandeelin on February 22, 2016, 09:51:55 PM
I may be alone, but I see a comfortable 'win' for the In side in this one. There's too much uncertainty for the UK if they leave. I would love to see Cameron taken down a peg or two, but I hope his 'In' side come out on top of this one.

Quote from: Farrandeelin on February 22, 2016, 09:51:55 PM
I may be alone, but I see a comfortable 'win' for the In side in this one. There's too much uncertainty for the UK if they leave. I would love to see Cameron taken down a peg or two, but I hope his 'In' side come out on top of this one.

Quote from: Farrandeelin on February 22, 2016, 09:51:55 PM
I may be alone, but I see a comfortable 'win' for the In side in this one. There's too much uncertainty for the UK if they leave. I would love to see Cameron taken down a peg or two, but I hope his 'In' side come out on top of this one.

Quote from: Applesisapples on February 23, 2016, 10:24:05 AM

Quote from: Farrandeelin on February 22, 2016, 09:51:55 PM
I may be alone, but I see a comfortable 'win' for the In side in this one. There's too much uncertainty for the UK if they leave. I would love to see Cameron taken down a peg or two, but I hope his 'In' side come out on top of this one.

Don't under estimate the average Brit's belief that they still rule the waves and can go it alone, just listen to SuperBrit Dawdsey.

Quote from: armaghniac on March 06, 2016, 12:31:50 AM
I see the UU have come down for "Remain", which is an unusual piece of leadership from them. It shows the DUP up for the bigots that they are.

Quote from: armaghniac on March 06, 2016, 12:31:50 AM
I see the UU have come down for "Remain", which is an unusual piece of leadership from them. It shows the DUP up for the bigots that they are.

Quote from: T Fearon on March 12, 2016, 03:57:46 PM
In fairness it's the Paisleyite wing of the DUP only that wants a Brexit,Arlene doesn't but probably reckons it won't happen anyway so to keep the party together they are very softly in favour of a Brexit

Quote from: T Fearon on March 12, 2016, 04:27:59 PM
All about keeping the party together and clipping wings of TUV.

Quote from: armaghniac on March 12, 2016, 04:40:51 PM

Quote from: T Fearon on March 12, 2016, 04:27:59 PM
All about keeping the party together and clipping wings of TUV.

She is First Minister, she should have some concern for NI and not just trying to outbigot a shower of poisoned lunatics.

Quote from: armaghniac on March 13, 2016, 05:48:53 PM
Portadown has always been a migrant ghetto and there have been many murders there.

Quote from: seafoid on April 26, 2016, 10:01:26 AM
I think Brexit is the wrong answer to the failure of the system to deliver decent jobs to ordinary Brits.

Quote from: omaghjoe on May 10, 2016, 06:23:53 PM
Would be some craic if they left  ;D...tho there would have to be some sort of deal struck with Brussels both long and short term so I would say it would wouldnt actually work out that much different in reality.

Quote from: bennydorano on May 15, 2016, 07:54:10 PM
The end for the Brexiteers?

EU Referendum: Boris Johnson compares EU's aims to Hitler's - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36295208

Quote from: bennydorano on May 15, 2016, 07:54:10 PM
The end for the Brexiteers?

EU Referendum: Boris Johnson compares EU's aims to Hitler's - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36295208

Quote from: yellowcard on May 15, 2016, 09:39:19 PM

Quote from: bennydorano on May 15, 2016, 07:54:10 PM
The end for the Brexiteers?

EU Referendum: Boris Johnson compares EU's aims to Hitler's - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36295208

Johnson is a buffoon, the stereotypical little Englander. Stay is still a strong favourite but I can see the gap narrowing and stay getting ultimately about 55-60% of the vote.

Quote from: omaghjoe on June 07, 2016, 04:10:34 AM
Lets get the f**kers out once and for all

Quote from: bennydorano on June 07, 2016, 02:42:46 PM
The EU Polls section on the BBC News is very interesting, you can check the polls by polling companies. Some of the disparities are huge, remain +13 ahead down to Leave +1. Someone's obviously wrong.

Quote from: ashman on June 07, 2016, 09:13:52 PM

Quote from: bennydorano on June 07, 2016, 02:42:46 PM
The EU Polls section on the BBC News is very interesting, you can check the polls by polling companies. Some of the disparities are huge, remain +13 ahead down to Leave +1. Someone's obviously wrong.

Political Opinion polling is going to have to look at itself. Getting a lot wrong.

Quote from: yellowcard on June 08, 2016, 01:33:36 PM
The biggest weapon that the remain side have is the fact that so many odious characters like Nigel Farage, Donald Trump and Boris Johnson have been to the forefront for the 'leave' side.

Quote from: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on June 10, 2016, 11:54:02 AM
If only we had a credible Irish politician to speak to those disaffected Irish citizens who have a vote in this, are living in Britain and are considering a Leave vote.  If it's a vote on immigrants (which it appears to be at its lowest tabloid level), then they are immigrants too.

Quote from: naka on June 13, 2016, 10:09:16 AM
guys,
this could be tight enough,
I have a fair few English clients who just see Europe The Sick Counties as a gravy train sucking all initiative out of UK GB.
they lament the increased faceless regulation, immigration (and these guys wouldn`t be classed as right wing) and the costs

was shocked because they are nearly all pressing for exit

Quote from: naka on June 13, 2016, 10:09:16 AM
guys,
this could be tight enough,

QuoteI have a fair few English clients who just see Europe as a gravy train sucking all initiative out of UK.
they lament the increased faceless regulation, immigration( and these guys wouldn`t be classed as right wing) and the costs

was shocked because they are nearly all pressing for exit

Quote from: seafoid on June 13, 2016, 12:15:07 PM
The debate is largely misinformed and mostly emotional.
Brexit is pointless.

Quote from: seafoid on June 13, 2016, 12:15:07 PM
The debate is largely misinformed and mostly emotional.
Brexit is pointless.

Quote from: T Fearon on June 13, 2016, 10:26:03 PM
Surely those chasing the United Ireland pipe dream should be in the Brexit camp and the inevitable break up of the UK such an outcome would precipitate? Then again it seems to be OK to cede sovereignty to the EU but not the Brits.

Quote from: OgraAnDun on June 13, 2016, 10:29:21 PM

Quote from: T Fearon on June 13, 2016, 10:26:03 PM
Surely those chasing the United Ireland pipe dream should be in the Brexit camp and the inevitable break up of the UK such an outcome would precipitate? Then again it seems to be OK to cede sovereignty to the EU but not the Brits.

I think the SNP are hoping for a Brexit more than northern nationalists.

Quote from: T Fearon on June 13, 2016, 10:26:03 PM
Surely those chasing the United Ireland pipe dream should be in the Brexit camp and the inevitable break up of the UK such an outcome would precipitate? Then again it seems to be OK to cede sovereignty to the EU but not the Brits.

Quote from: OgraAnDun on June 13, 2016, 10:29:21 PM
I think the SNP are hoping for a Brexit more than northern nationalists.

Quote from: Farrandeelin on June 13, 2016, 11:01:05 PM
It's a funny one alright. Scotland will more than likely vote to remain, but I'd say in the back of the SNP's minds they will hope for a Brexit. The situation is unclear with nationalists here. If there is a Brexit and the border controls come back, that would mean hassle for a lot of people.

Quote from: seafoid on June 14, 2016, 07:37:51 AM
If Carson and Craig could return now what would they make of NI? The protestant industries all collapsed. Dublin is far bigger and far wealthier than Belfast. The bigotry blew up in 1969 and is still hurting economically. England lost the Empire. The British economy is a mess.
Politics are subject to macro.

Quote from: No wides on June 14, 2016, 08:56:29 AM

Quote from: seafoid on June 14, 2016, 07:37:51 AM
If Carson and Craig could return now what would they make of NI? The protestant industries all collapsed. Dublin is far bigger and far wealthier than Belfast. The bigotry blew up in 1969 and is still hurting economically. England lost the Empire. The British economy is a mess.
Politics are subject to macro.

Is it really?

Quote from: naka on June 14, 2016, 08:31:11 AM
It's amazing how the dup are pushing for it knowing it could break the union.( with the scots pulling out) although the economic argument for independence isn't as strong now that oil has crashed.

Quote from: DuffleKing on June 14, 2016, 09:57:16 AM

Can someone explain to me why a northern nationalist would vote to remain?

Quote from: DuffleKing on June 14, 2016, 09:57:16 AM

Can someone explain to me why a northern nationalist would vote to remain?

Quote from: AQMP on June 14, 2016, 11:23:24 AM

Quote from: seafoid on June 14, 2016, 11:16:53 AM
Why does the DUP support Brexit? Does anyone in the DUP understand how the real world works ?

Because they think Brexit will lead to greater separation between NI and RoI and they think that will play well with their base suport

Quote from: AQMP on June 14, 2016, 11:23:24 AM

Quote from: seafoid on June 14, 2016, 11:16:53 AM
Why does the DUP support Brexit? Does anyone in the DUP understand how the real world works ?

Because they think Brexit will lead to greater separation between NI and RoI and they think that will play well with their base suport

Quote from: seafoid on June 14, 2016, 11:55:16 AM

Quote from: AQMP on June 14, 2016, 11:23:24 AM

Quote from: seafoid on June 14, 2016, 11:16:53 AM
Why does the DUP support Brexit? Does anyone in the DUP understand how the real world works ?

Because they think Brexit will lead to greater separation between NI and RoI and they think that will play well with their base suport

who will.lose money
And the UK might break up

Cutting off NI's nose to spite its face

Quote from: seafoid on June 14, 2016, 11:16:53 AM
does anyone in the DUP understand how the real world works ?

Quote from: AQMP on June 14, 2016, 11:23:24 AM

Quote from: seafoid on June 14, 2016, 11:16:53 AM
Why does the DUP support Brexit? Does anyone in the DUP understand how the real world works ?

Because they think Brexit will lead to greater separation between NI and RoI and they think that will play well with their base suport

Quote from: Applesisapples on June 14, 2016, 12:18:25 PM

Quote from: AQMP on June 14, 2016, 11:23:24 AM

Quote from: seafoid on June 14, 2016, 11:16:53 AM
Why does the DUP support Brexit? Does anyone in the DUP understand how the real world works ?

Because they think Brexit will lead to greater separation between NI and RoI and they think that will play well with their base suport

Unionists also tend to vote with their gut and see everything in black and white. Thats why they will vote Brexit at heart the are British Nationalists and intrinisically xenophobic  and economics doesn't come in to it. Forster is one of the worst examples of this type of unionism, First Minister for al my a**e.

Quote from: screenexile on June 14, 2016, 12:28:31 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on June 14, 2016, 12:18:25 PM

Quote from: AQMP on June 14, 2016, 11:23:24 AM

Quote from: seafoid on June 14, 2016, 11:16:53 AM
Why does the DUP support Brexit? Does anyone in the DUP understand how the real world works ?

Because they think Brexit will lead to greater separation between NI and RoI and they think that will play well with their base suport

Unionists also tend to vote with their gut and see everything in black and white. Thats why they will vote Brexit at heart the are British Nationalists and intrinisically xenophobic  and economics doesn't come in to it. Forster is one of the worst examples of this type of unionism, First Minister for al my a**e.

Yeah they see it as pulling away from the Republic which should strengthen them... I doubt it.

In reality a fair chunk of the North will vote to stay in expecially Nationalists and a fair chunk of Unionism, I can't see the Farmer's foregoing their single farm payment.

I still expect the status quo to hold although it will be very very close!

Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 14, 2016, 02:36:54 PM
This needs a poll. I think the north will be clear majority voting to remain but appears to be tighter across the water. After recent elections and Scottish independence vote I'm ignoring the fact that polls have Leave ahead. I still think Remain will win fairly comfortably.

Quote from: blewuporstuffed on June 14, 2016, 03:04:19 PM

Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 14, 2016, 02:36:54 PM
This needs a poll. I think the north will be clear majority voting to remain but appears to be tighter across the water. After recent elections and Scottish independence vote I'm ignoring the fact that polls have Leave ahead. I still think Remain will win fairly comfortably.

I agree , but the trouble is, the northern vote is of little significance in the scheme of things due to our population.

Quote from: yellowcard on June 14, 2016, 10:20:16 AM

Quote from: DuffleKing on June 14, 2016, 09:57:16 AM

Can someone explain to me why a northern nationalist would vote to remain?

I wouldn't profess to having researched this in any great detail but there are a few reasons I'd be voting to stay:

1) Look at the type of character that wants to leave. Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, Rupert Murdoch, Donald Trump, Jim Allister, DUP cronies. This on its own is enough me to convince to stay.
2) Economically Westminster will have even less regard for the 6 counties than they already have if they have increased powers.
3) Potential for increased border controls

Constitutionally I'm not sure what the impact would be but I don't think anyone can predict this with any great certainty.

Quote from: muppet on June 14, 2016, 03:37:50 PM

Quote from: yellowcard on June 14, 2016, 10:20:16 AM

Quote from: DuffleKing on June 14, 2016, 09:57:16 AM

Can someone explain to me why a northern nationalist would vote to remain?

I wouldn't profess to having researched this in any great detail but there are a few reasons I'd be voting to stay:

1) Look at the type of character that wants to leave. Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, Rupert Murdoch, Donald Trump, Jim Allister, DUP cronies. This on its own is enough me to convince to stay.
2) Economically Westminster will have even less regard for the 6 counties than they already have if they have increased powers.
3) Potential for increased border controls

Constitutionally I'm not sure what the impact would be but I don't think anyone can predict this with any great certainty.

This line speaks volumes.

Quote from: omaghjoe on June 14, 2016, 04:14:39 PM

Quote from: muppet on June 14, 2016, 03:37:50 PM

Quote from: yellowcard on June 14, 2016, 10:20:16 AM

Quote from: DuffleKing on June 14, 2016, 09:57:16 AM

Can someone explain to me why a northern nationalist would vote to remain?

I wouldn't profess to having researched this in any great detail but there are a few reasons I'd be voting to stay:

1) Look at the type of character that wants to leave. Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, Rupert Murdoch, Donald Trump, Jim Allister, DUP cronies. This on its own is enough me to convince to stay.
2) Economically Westminster will have even less regard for the 6 counties than they already have if they have increased powers.
3) Potential for increased border controls

Constitutionally I'm not sure what the impact would be but I don't think anyone can predict this with any great certainty.

This line speaks volumes.

Voting on the basis of the character of a cause's supporters as opposed to the actual cause itself?

Quote from: gallsman on June 14, 2016, 04:18:45 PM

Quote from: omaghjoe on June 14, 2016, 04:14:39 PM

Quote from: muppet on June 14, 2016, 03:37:50 PM

Quote from: yellowcard on June 14, 2016, 10:20:16 AM

Quote from: DuffleKing on June 14, 2016, 09:57:16 AM

Can someone explain to me why a northern nationalist would vote to remain?

I wouldn't profess to having researched this in any great detail but there are a few reasons I'd be voting to stay:

1) Look at the type of character that wants to leave. Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, Rupert Murdoch, Donald Trump, Jim Allister, DUP cronies. This on its own is enough me to convince to stay.
2) Economically Westminster will have even less regard for the 6 counties than they already have if they have increased powers.
3) Potential for increased border controls

Constitutionally I'm not sure what the impact would be but I don't think anyone can predict this with any great certainty.

This line speaks volumes.

Voting on the basis of the character of a cause's supporters as opposed to the actual cause itself?

There are worse ideas.

Quote from: T Fearon on June 14, 2016, 04:43:28 PM
Even DUP MPs have admitted to me privately that NI isn't on the radar at Westminster.

QuoteI think the Brexit campaign will get the vote out and even French Police beating the crap out of their hooligans strengthens the case for the brain dead to vote out

Quote from: omaghjoe on June 14, 2016, 04:14:39 PM

Quote from: muppet on June 14, 2016, 03:37:50 PM

Quote from: yellowcard on June 14, 2016, 10:20:16 AM

Quote from: DuffleKing on June 14, 2016, 09:57:16 AM

Can someone explain to me why a northern nationalist would vote to remain?

I wouldn't profess to having researched this in any great detail but there are a few reasons I'd be voting to stay:

1) Look at the type of character that wants to leave. Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, Rupert Murdoch, Donald Trump, Jim Allister, DUP cronies. This on its own is enough me to convince to stay.
2) Economically Westminster will have even less regard for the 6 counties than they already have if they have increased powers.
3) Potential for increased border controls

Constitutionally I'm not sure what the impact would be but I don't think anyone can predict this with any great certainty.

This line speaks volumes.

Voting on the basis of the character of a cause's supporters as opposed to the actual cause itself?

Quote from: Applesisapples on June 14, 2016, 04:33:07 PM
I frankly don't know what a Brexit will mean for me personally or for NI. I am not convinced by the benefits that the Leave campaign espouse. I suppose in the round I don't want to take the risk. I don't want to see border controls at Newry and Strabane. The most cogent argument I heard was from an economist who stated that the trade deal the British would get as a single economy with China, India etc... would not be as good as the EU. The Norwegian situation where they have to pay into the EU and adopt regulations to be able to trade whilst not having the say that Britain has as a major power has never been addressed by leave campaigners. I don't believe either that the UK treasury will merrily hand over the cash to farmers that the EU does.

Quote from: T Fearon on June 14, 2016, 04:33:58 PM
Momentum with Brexit side.No one in England uses their brains when it comes to this election.Labour voters not enthused by agreeing with Cameron and Labour Party itself scared after damage done to it by supporting stay camp in Scottish referendum.Those who wish to vote out highly motivated unlike those who wish to stay.

Quote from: yellowcard on June 14, 2016, 05:43:20 PM

Quote from: omaghjoe on June 14, 2016, 04:14:39 PM

Quote from: muppet on June 14, 2016, 03:37:50 PM

Quote from: yellowcard on June 14, 2016, 10:20:16 AM

Quote from: DuffleKing on June 14, 2016, 09:57:16 AM

Can someone explain to me why a northern nationalist would vote to remain?

I wouldn't profess to having researched this in any great detail but there are a few reasons I'd be voting to stay:

1) Look at the type of character that wants to leave. Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, Rupert Murdoch, Donald Trump, Jim Allister, DUP cronies. This on its own is enough me to convince to stay.
2) Economically Westminster will have even less regard for the 6 counties than they already have if they have increased powers.
3) Potential for increased border controls

Constitutionally I'm not sure what the impact would be but I don't think anyone can predict this with any great certainty.

This line speaks volumes.

Voting on the basis of the character of a cause's supporters as opposed to the actual cause itself?

What these people represent is by and large totally at odds with my own views and hence that's why I dislike them in the first place.

Quote from: omaghjoe on June 14, 2016, 08:57:50 PM
As a good example "in" says there will be financial turmoil from the uncertainty.

But then actually the ECB leaked this morning that they will shore up the markets on the Friday morning along with the BoE

Quote from: bennydorano on June 14, 2016, 09:24:30 PM
The big problem is that there could be years of financial uncertainty for mortgages, investment, sterling, credit ratings, guaranteed recession. The immediate aftermath shouldn't be anything uncontainable.

Quote from: OgraAnDun on June 14, 2016, 11:00:30 PM
I can understand some of the ideological arguments for leaving the EU, including a reclaiming of national sovereignty, freedom from TTIP which looks like it might be forced through the EU, and a shift away from neo-liberal politics which the EU is championing. However, Switzerland and Norway have to adhere to pretty much all the legislation with virtually no input into the legislative process. Essentially, Brits will be leaving the table but still having to follow the adult's rules.

Leaving the EU will be an economic disaster, as the UK goes towards the back of the queue for trade deals, and the above problems (as regards EU legislation) could become even worse as Berlin dominates procedures even more so than it does at the minute. Plenty of large businesses have said they will relocate and I think that small ones will also feel the pinch.

I think that many nationalists (Scottish and Irish) that are lukewarm to the idea of a Brexit believe the old adage that 'England's difficulty is Ireland's (Scotland's) opportunity'. In Ireland, I think that many American multinationals will move to Dublin - we speak the same language as those Stateside, the culture is similar and the start of a working day in California is the end of it in Ireland, compared to an hour after it's finished in Paris or Dusseldorf. In Scotland, a UK out of the EU is bound to be more than enough to swing a future vote on Scottish independence to an out vote.

In the north, it all depends on whether you believe the British government and the English people have the stomach to impose a hard border between the 6 and 26 counties. I personally don't believe they do. I think the Tories - especially those in the Brexit camp - are more than willing to finally get rid of the north and its petty squabbles once and for all, especially with Scotland gone and it really is just England left in the mix. As someone said earlier in this thread (I think), border posts in South Armagh are followed quickly by the phrase 'sitting ducks'. In this case, the UK's external borders move to Holyhead and British airports, finally confirming the idea that the north is NOT part of Britain. Moderate unionists will also swing round to the idea of a united Ireland, especially when they look at a liberal, modern and (hopefully) prosperous south and compare it with the Little Englanders version of the UK.

In the event of a hard border being imposed (unlikely), I believe it will push a lot of Catholics who like the status quo back to nationalism, as they will bitterly resent being stopped and searched every time they want to cross the border, which for a lot of people, is multiple times a day if not a week. For example, from Newry to Clones, a car crosses the border 3 times each way if they go via Castleblayney.


However, I think it's all irrelevant. On polling day, anyone who is currently a 'don't know' - of whom there are a sizeable enough portion, will give in to the devil they do rather than the devil they don't, and vote to stay in the EU.


EDIT: I should probably also say that Scotland leaving the UK also leaves the unionists here with a bit of an identity crisis. They were so scared of it the last time, they even wanted voters in the north to get a vote. They call their accent 'Ulster Scots' rather than 'Ulster English'. Anything that weakens their arguments for unionism should be welcomed by nationalism.

QuoteEssentially, Brits will be leaving the table but still having to follow the adult's rules.

Quote from: armaghniac on June 14, 2016, 11:52:20 PM
Unfortunately, it isn't clear that Scotland will move even if there is a Brexit. One problem with this is that it might throw the nature of arrangements between Scotland and England into confusion also and a giant customs station at Gretna does not make any more sense than one at Killeen, although it is probably less likely that someone will fire mortars at it.

Quote from: OgraAnDun on June 15, 2016, 12:02:24 AM
They have a habit of sticking their foot in their mouth anyway.

Quote from: armaghniac on June 14, 2016, 11:52:20 PM
Unfortunately, it isn't clear that Scotland will move even if there is a Brexit. One problem with this is that it might throw the nature of arrangements between Scotland and England into confusion also and a giant customs station at Gretna does not make any more sense than one at Killeen, although it is probably less likely that someone will fire mortars at it.

I think that Scots will definitely vote to leave in the event of a Brexit. If Britain wants some sort of free trade deal with the EU, they may have to succumb to free movement of citizens anyway which renders border posts redundant. Whether or not they will agree to that in four or five years depends on who is in power - left to see how big a mistake they've made, Labour could well be voted back in. Either way it just goes to show the sheer stupidity in voting for a Brexit. I dislike the EU but it's economic suicide to leave.

If the above outline (re; no border posts in Ireland, MNCs moving to Dublin etc) does come to pass, the best result for anyone that wants to see the breakup of the U.K. would be a Brexit with a heavy 'In' vote in the 6C and in Scotland.

Quote from: yellowcard on June 14, 2016, 05:43:20 PM

Quote from: omaghjoe on June 14, 2016, 04:14:39 PM

Quote from: muppet on June 14, 2016, 03:37:50 PM

Quote from: yellowcard on June 14, 2016, 10:20:16 AM

Quote from: DuffleKing on June 14, 2016, 09:57:16 AM

Can someone explain to me why a northern nationalist would vote to remain?

I wouldn't profess to having researched this in any great detail but there are a few reasons I'd be voting to stay:

1) Look at the type of character that wants to leave. Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, Rupert Murdoch, Donald Trump, Jim Allister, DUP cronies. This on its own is enough me to convince to stay.
2) Economically Westminster will have even less regard for the 6 counties than they already have if they have increased powers.
3) Potential for increased border controls

Constitutionally I'm not sure what the impact would be but I don't think anyone can predict this with any great certainty.

This line speaks volumes.

Voting on the basis of the character of a cause's supporters as opposed to the actual cause itself?

What these people represent is by and large totally at odds with my own views and hence that's why I dislike them in the first place.

Quote from: take_yer_points on June 15, 2016, 11:11:13 AM

Quote from: yellowcard on June 14, 2016, 05:43:20 PM

Quote from: omaghjoe on June 14, 2016, 04:14:39 PM

Quote from: muppet on June 14, 2016, 03:37:50 PM

Quote from: yellowcard on June 14, 2016, 10:20:16 AM

Quote from: DuffleKing on June 14, 2016, 09:57:16 AM

Can someone explain to me why a northern nationalist would vote to remain?

I wouldn't profess to having researched this in any great detail but there are a few reasons I'd be voting to stay:

1) Look at the type of character that wants to leave. Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, Rupert Murdoch, Donald Trump, Jim Allister, DUP cronies. This on its own is enough me to convince to stay.
2) Economically Westminster will have even less regard for the 6 counties than they already have if they have increased powers.
3) Potential for increased border controls

Constitutionally I'm not sure what the impact would be but I don't think anyone can predict this with any great certainty.

This line speaks volumes.

Voting on the basis of the character of a cause's supporters as opposed to the actual cause itself?

What these people represent is by and large totally at odds with my own views and hence that's why I dislike them in the first place.

Saw this on facebook:


A good friend of mine came up with a great idea. If you don't have the time/inclination to find out all the facts about the EU referendum (I don't blame you) and are possibly unsure which way to vote, perhaps knowing how other notable people are thinking could help out.

Here are a few that strongly believe the UK should remain a member of the EU:

• Governor of the Bank of England
• International Monetary Fund
• Institute for Fiscal Studies
• Confederation of British Industry
• Leaders/heads of state of every single other member of the EU
• President of the United States of America
• Eight former US Treasury Secretaries
• President of China
• Prime Minister of India
• Prime Minister of Canada
• Prime Minister of Australia
• Prime Minister of Japan
• Prime Minister of New Zealand
• The chief executives of most of the top 100 companies in the UK including Marks and Spencer, BT, Asda, Vodafone, Virgin, IBM, BMW etc.
• Kofi Annan, the former Secretary General of the United Nations
• All living former Prime Ministers of the UK (from both parties)
• Virtually all reputable and recognised economists
• The Prime Minister of the UK
• The leader of the Labour Party
• The Leader of the Liberal Democrats
• The Leader of the Green Party
• The Leader of the Scottish National Party
• The leader of Plaid Cymru
• Leader of Sinn Fein
• Martin Lewis, that money saving dude off the telly
• The Secretary General of the TUC
• Unison
• National Union of Students
• National Union of Farmers
• Stephen Hawking
• Chief Executive of the NHS
• 300 of the most prominent international historians
• Director of Europol
• David Anderson QC, Independent Reviewer of Terrorism Legislation
• Former Directors of GCHQ
• Secretary General of Nato
• Church of England
• Church in Scotland
• Church in Wales
• Friends of the Earth
• Greenpeace
• Director General of the World Trade Organisation
• WWF
• World Bank
• OECD

Here are pretty much the only notable people who think we should leave the EU:

• Boris Johnson, who probably doesn't really care either way, but knows he'll become Prime Minister if the country votes to leave
• A former Secretary of State for Work and Pensions who carried out a brutal regime of cuts to benefits and essential support for the poorest in society as well as the disabled and sick
• That idiot that was Education Secretary and every single teacher in the country hated with a furious passion for the damage he was doing to the education system
• Leader of UKIP
• BNP
• Britain First
• Donald Trump
• Keith Chegwin
• David Icke

So, as I said, if you can't be bothered to look into the real facts and implications of all this in/out stuff, just pick the list that you most trust and vote that way. It really couldn't be more simple.

And if you are unsure about leaving, don't.

Please repost this list, if you think it might help.

Quote from: Rossfan on June 15, 2016, 11:28:51 AM
Are the British Government bound by the outcome if it's a leave vote?
A referendum in the 26 Cos is to amend a written Constitution which can only be done by popular vote.
What status has the Brit's referendum?

Quote from: Rossfan on June 15, 2016, 11:28:51 AM
Are the British Government bound by the outcome if it's a leave vote?
A referendum in the 26 Cos is to amend a written Constitution which can only be done by popular vote.
What status has the Brit's referendum?

Quote from: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on June 15, 2016, 12:05:37 PM
Cameron cancels Friday morning appearance with Taoiseach in Manchester to persuade Irish in Britain to vote Remain.  Apparently, he's a liability to the voting public....

Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on June 15, 2016, 12:23:29 PM

Quote from: Fiodoir Ard Mhacha on June 15, 2016, 12:05:37 PM
Cameron cancels Friday morning appearance with Taoiseach in Manchester to persuade Irish in Britain to vote Remain.  Apparently, he's a liability to the voting public....

I believe Mr Cameron has been withdrawn from all remaining 'Remain' campaigning.

Quote from: seafoid on June 15, 2016, 01:22:34 PM
Brexit is 2 fingers to the status quo. Most voters know nothing about economics.  Eg saving money on EU funds . It is around 1% of GDP.

Quote from: seafoid on June 15, 2016, 01:26:19 PM
Brexit has the potential to be the beginning of the end for Northern Ireland. If the Scots leave the Union all bets are off.

Quote from: armaghniac on June 15, 2016, 01:34:47 PM

Quote from: seafoid on June 15, 2016, 01:22:34 PM
Brexit is 2 fingers to the status quo. Most voters know nothing about economics.  Eg saving money on EU funds . It is around 1% of GDP.

The net EU contribution is about the same as the oft quoted payout to the 6 counties, except it is much better value.
Either way GDP will be less now.

it is very alarming though, in this age when information is readily available, that people are not interested in the facts or finding out about them.

Fair play to (Sir) Bob Geldof for his nautical information broadcast that the UK actually has the largest fish quota. No doubt if there is a Brexit the fish, who have been hiding in recent years, will flock back to British waters. 

Quote from: seafoid on June 15, 2016, 01:26:19 PM
Brexit has the potential to be the beginning of the end for Northern Ireland. If the Scots leave the Union all bets are off.

Nobody would like to see Northern Ireland abolished than me, but the preparatory work has not been done and thr politicians capable of it do not exist. The £8 billion being a case in point. There is a real problem about NI having this debate while the Scots are, as NI would deserve (and need) a generous dowry while the London government would not wish to give Scotland one.

Quote from: armaghniac on June 15, 2016, 01:34:47 PM

Quote from: seafoid on June 15, 2016, 01:22:34 PM
Brexit is 2 fingers to the status quo. Most voters know nothing about economics.  Eg saving money on EU funds . It is around 1% of GDP.

The net EU contribution is about the same as the oft quoted payout to the 6 counties, except it is much better value.
Either way GDP will be less now.

it is very alarming though, in this age when information is readily available, that people are not interested in the facts or finding out about them.

Fair play to (Sir) Bob Geldof for his nautical information broadcast that the UK actually has the largest fish quota. No doubt if there is a Brexit the fish, who have been hiding in recent years, will flock back to British waters. 

Quote from: seafoid on June 15, 2016, 01:26:19 PM
Brexit has the potential to be the beginning of the end for Northern Ireland. If the Scots leave the Union all bets are off.

Nobody would like to see Northern Ireland abolished than me, but the preparatory work has not been done and thr politicians capable of it do not exist. The £8 billion being a case in point. There is a real problem about NI having this debate while the Scots are, as NI would deserve (and need) a generous dowry while the London government would not wish to give Scotland one.

Quote from: yellowcard on June 15, 2016, 09:24:14 PM
I'd tend to agree with this but it begs the question, what the hell are Sinn Fein (the only all Ireland party) actually doing? No vision put forward for what re-unification would actually look like. They seriously need to get their house in order economically.

Quote from: yellowcard on June 15, 2016, 09:24:14 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on June 15, 2016, 01:34:47 PM

Quote from: seafoid on June 15, 2016, 01:22:34 PM
Brexit is 2 fingers to the status quo. Most voters know nothing about economics.  Eg saving money on EU funds . It is around 1% of GDP.

The net EU contribution is about the same as the oft quoted payout to the 6 counties, except it is much better value.
Either way GDP will be less now.

it is very alarming though, in this age when information is readily available, that people are not interested in the facts or finding out about them.

Fair play to (Sir) Bob Geldof for his nautical information broadcast that the UK actually has the largest fish quota. No doubt if there is a Brexit the fish, who have been hiding in recent years, will flock back to British waters. 

Quote from: seafoid on June 15, 2016, 01:26:19 PM
Brexit has the potential to be the beginning of the end for Northern Ireland. If the Scots leave the Union all bets are off.

Nobody would like to see Northern Ireland abolished than me, but the preparatory work has not been done and thr politicians capable of it do not exist. The £8 billion being a case in point. There is a real problem about NI having this debate while the Scots are, as NI would deserve (and need) a generous dowry while the London government would not wish to give Scotland one.

I'd tend to agree with this but it begs the question, what the hell are Sinn Fein (the only all Ireland party) actually doing? No vision put forward for what re-unification would actually look like. They seriously need to get their house in order economically.

Quote from: dec on June 16, 2016, 04:06:20 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-36550304

An MP is in a critical condition after she was shot and stabbed during an attack in her constituency.

Eyewitnesses said Jo Cox, 41, Labour MP for Batley and Spen, was left bleeding on the floor by her attacker. A man also suffered slight injuries.

A 52-year-old man was arrested near Market Street, Birstall, West Yorkshire Police said. The MP holds a weekly advice surgery nearby.

Quote from: Canalman on June 20, 2016, 12:36:36 PM
A comfortable yes vote imo  54% to 46%.

Have to say, I have been impressed with Cameron in the campaign. Saw an interview at the weekend with Corbyn ( first time hearing him|)  and was also impressed. Underestimate him at your peril. 

Bigger pond I know, but there seems to be a better calibre of politician over there.

Quote from: AQMP on June 20, 2016, 12:48:15 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on June 20, 2016, 12:42:45 PM

Quote from: Canalman on June 20, 2016, 12:36:36 PM
A comfortable yes vote imo  54% to 46%.

Have to say, I have been impressed with Cameron in the campaign. Saw an interview at the weekend with Corbyn ( first time hearing him|)  and was also impressed. Underestimate him at your peril. 

Bigger pond I know, but there seems to be a better calibre of politician over there.

Anything less than 53% to 47% will imply an actual Leave majority in voters resident in England and would not be very stable. Voters in Scotland, NI and ex-pats will be clearly Remain, and that's about 8 million voters. Wales might be soft Remain as well so even 46.5% Leave might still imply a marginal Leave majority in England.

I'd be happy enough if England left and the rest of us stayed!  My gut tells me that Remain will get home more comfortably than some of the media and polls suggest.  I'd say there'll be a swing to the status quo in the last 24-48 hours.
[/quote


They will win going away.

Quote from: Over the Bar on June 20, 2016, 12:55:50 PM
Normally I can't stand the guy but Cameron on Question Time last night gave the performance of his career last night.  Impressive.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 20, 2016, 05:45:31 PM

Quote from: Over the Bar on June 20, 2016, 12:55:50 PM
Normally I can't stand the guy but Cameron on Question Time last night gave the performance of his career last night.  Impressive.

Yep very impressed with how he handles questions, very clued up on everything (as you'd hope) financially staying in or leaving what's best if you work private sector??

Quote from: armaghniac on June 20, 2016, 12:42:45 PM

Quote from: Canalman on June 20, 2016, 12:36:36 PM
A comfortable yes vote imo  54% to 46%.

Have to say, I have been impressed with Cameron in the campaign. Saw an interview at the weekend with Corbyn ( first time hearing him|)  and was also impressed. Underestimate him at your peril. 

Bigger pond I know, but there seems to be a better calibre of politician over there.

Anything less than 53% to 47% will imply an actual Leave majority in voters resident in England and would not be very stable. Voters in Scotland, NI and ex-pats will be clearly Remain, and that's about 8 million voters. Wales might be soft Remain as well so even 46.5% Leave might still imply a marginal Leave majority in England.

Quote from: armaghniac on June 20, 2016, 06:07:21 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 20, 2016, 05:45:31 PM

Quote from: Over the Bar on June 20, 2016, 12:55:50 PM
Normally I can't stand the guy but Cameron on Question Time last night gave the performance of his career last night.  Impressive.

Yep very impressed with how he handles questions, very clued up on everything (as you'd hope) financially staying in or leaving what's best if you work private sector??

If you want NI to return to 1972, then vote out.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 20, 2016, 11:01:14 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on June 20, 2016, 06:07:21 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 20, 2016, 05:45:31 PM

Quote from: Over the Bar on June 20, 2016, 12:55:50 PM
Normally I can't stand the guy but Cameron on Question Time last night gave the performance of his career last night.  Impressive.

Yep very impressed with how he handles questions, very clued up on everything (as you'd hope) financially staying in or leaving what's best if you work private sector??

If you want NI to return to 1972, then vote out.

Was a great year! God I'm old

Quote from: armaghniac on June 20, 2016, 11:59:42 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 20, 2016, 11:01:14 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on June 20, 2016, 06:07:21 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 20, 2016, 05:45:31 PM

Quote from: Over the Bar on June 20, 2016, 12:55:50 PM
Normally I can't stand the guy but Cameron on Question Time last night gave the performance of his career last night.  Impressive.

Yep very impressed with how he handles questions, very clued up on everything (as you'd hope) financially staying in or leaving what's best if you work private sector??

If you want NI to return to 1972, then vote out.

Was a great year! God I'm old

You don't get the music back. Only these c***s
(http://digitalfilmarchive.net/uploads/images/_media/F000308UM.JPG?maxwidth=320&maxheight=240)

Quote from: BennyCake on June 21, 2016, 08:31:59 AM
Not a hope Leave will win, unfortunately.

Quote from: BennyCake on June 21, 2016, 08:31:59 AM
Not a hope Leave will win, unfortunately.

Quote from: BennyCake on June 21, 2016, 08:31:59 AM
Not a hope Leave will win, unfortunately.

Quote from: BennyCake on June 21, 2016, 08:31:59 AM
Not a hope Leave will win, unfortunately.

Quote from: No wides on June 21, 2016, 09:24:34 AM

Quote from: BennyCake on June 21, 2016, 08:31:59 AM
Not a hope Leave will win, unfortunately.

You underestimate the ahem "working" class Brit.  Pure racism will get the leave over the line, the polls are a load of shite we see that time and time again.

Quote from: armaghniac on June 21, 2016, 09:16:44 AM

Quote from: BennyCake on June 21, 2016, 08:31:59 AM
Not a hope Leave will win, unfortunately.

I'm   of sure why  you want the  DUP Boris Johnson  and Farage to win,  but I hope you are right that they  won't.. I'm  sure sense will prevail.

Quote from: yellowcard on June 21, 2016, 11:09:54 AM
I think the death of the MP Jo Cox will have had a significant enough impact to affect the vote. Remain will probably win fairly comfortably now by about 60-40.

Quote from: armaghniac on June 21, 2016, 12:41:05 PM

Quote from: yellowcard on June 21, 2016, 11:09:54 AM
I think the death of the MP Jo Cox will have had a significant enough impact to affect the vote. Remain will probably win fairly comfortably now by about 60-40.

Judging by the Forex markets, a Remain win seems to be factored in.
I should have bought some Sterling last week!

Quote from: seafoid on June 21, 2016, 12:29:21 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on June 21, 2016, 09:16:44 AM

Quote from: BennyCake on June 21, 2016, 08:31:59 AM
Not a hope Leave will win, unfortunately.

I'm   of sure why  you want the  DUP Boris Johnson  and Farage to win,  but I hope you are right that they  won't.. I'm  sure sense will prevail.

Brexit Is too un certain. 350m a week is 1% of gdp. Brexit could cost 10% of gdp.
Villiers Is an airhead. I suppose they don't want an intellectuel dealing with the DUP.

Quote from: Minder on June 21, 2016, 12:46:11 PM
Beckham securing his knighthood

Quote from: Minder on June 21, 2016, 12:46:11 PM
Beckham securing his knighthood

Quote from: yellowcard on June 21, 2016, 02:28:39 PM

Quote from: Minder on June 21, 2016, 12:46:11 PM
Beckham securing his knighthood

Thats just emabarrassing for whoever wheeled out the well known economist and intellectual that is Beckham..

Quote from: rosnarun on June 21, 2016, 03:22:58 PM
Currently we have signed to a treaty who aim is 'EVER increasing  union' which is not just flowery language nut  states that its aim it to end up as a nation state. so if that is what's desired then vote yes. the hope is with an English withdrawal we have a redrawing  of our relationship with all other nation not just white european ones
Nationalism does no go away just because the nation gets bigger

Quote from: Oghams Law on June 21, 2016, 04:30:38 PM
http://uk.businessinsider.com/wef-countries-with-highest-level-of-government-debt-vs-gdp-2015-10

Of the Top 17 countires with the highest level of gov debt how many do you think are in the EU?

What would be wrong with a free trade agreement in Europe only without striving for a United States of Europe?
Vote Leave

Quote from: AQMP on June 21, 2016, 03:03:18 PM

Quote from: seafoid on June 21, 2016, 02:46:47 PM
How do north of Ireland posters feel about Dodds and Villiers supporting leave?

Dodds supports a Brexit for the same reason as most DUPers.  He thinks it will lead to another (or several) degrees of separation between North and South.  I haven't heard one DUPer give any sort of argument as to why NI will be better off outside the EU. 

Villiers is a lightweight fuckwit who will be on her way if Remain prevails.

Quote from: armaghniac on June 21, 2016, 08:05:17 PM
That's  the general idea; cut the NI economy,  especially in Taig border areas and replace European payments with London ones.  Then the subvention becomes so large that a UI is totally inconceivable.

Quote from: Oghams Law on June 21, 2016, 04:30:38 PM
http://uk.businessinsider.com/wef-countries-with-highest-level-of-government-debt-vs-gdp-2015-10

Of the Top 17 countires with the highest level of gov debt how many do you think are in the EU?

What would be wrong with a free trade agreement in Europe only without striving for a United States of Europe?
Vote Leave

Quote from: LeoMc on June 21, 2016, 09:52:38 PM

Quote from: Oghams Law on June 21, 2016, 04:30:38 PM
http://uk.businessinsider.com/wef-countries-with-highest-level-of-government-debt-vs-gdp-2015-10

Of the Top 17 countires with the highest level of gov debt how many do you think are in the EU?

What would be wrong with a free trade agreement in Europe only without striving for a United States of Europe?
Vote Leave

So they will be able to negotiate a better deal from outside without complying with EU directives?

Quote from: seafoid on June 21, 2016, 08:00:03 PM

Quote from: AQMP on June 21, 2016, 03:03:18 PM

Quote from: seafoid on June 21, 2016, 02:46:47 PM
How do north of Ireland posters feel about Dodds and Villiers supporting leave?

Dodds supports a Brexit for the same reason as most DUPers.  He thinks it will lead to another (or several) degrees of separation between North and South.  I haven't heard one DUPer give any sort of argument as to why NI will be better off outside the EU. 

Villiers is a lightweight fuckwit who will be on her way if Remain prevails.

If DUP heads really think like that,  NI is fucked. Leave could cut UK GDP by 10%

Quote from: blewuporstuffed on June 22, 2016, 08:34:41 AM

Quote from: seafoid on June 21, 2016, 08:00:03 PM

Quote from: AQMP on June 21, 2016, 03:03:18 PM

Quote from: seafoid on June 21, 2016, 02:46:47 PM
How do north of Ireland posters feel about Dodds and Villiers supporting leave?

Dodds supports a Brexit for the same reason as most DUPers.  He thinks it will lead to another (or several) degrees of separation between North and South.  I haven't heard one DUPer give any sort of argument as to why NI will be better off outside the EU. 

Villiers is a lightweight fuckwit who will be on her way if Remain prevails.

If DUP heads really think like that,  NI is fucked. Leave could cut UK GDP by 10%

Of course they think like that, that's a huge part of our problem here.Its like banging your head against a wall.

Quote from: seafoid on June 21, 2016, 10:25:18 PM

Quote from: LeoMc on June 21, 2016, 09:52:38 PM

Quote from: Oghams Law on June 21, 2016, 04:30:38 PM
http://uk.businessinsider.com/wef-countries-with-highest-level-of-government-debt-vs-gdp-2015-10

Of the Top 17 countires with the highest level of gov debt how many do you think are in the EU?

What would be wrong with a free trade agreement in Europe only without striving for a United States of Europe?
Vote Leave

So they will be able to negotiate a better deal from outside without complying with EU directives?

Europe doesn't work like that . Switzerland had a referendum on inward migration and tried to play hardball with Brussels. It was told to PFO. It was kicked out of the Erasmus programme. 2 years later it is still trying to triangulate. Only 30% of voters woukd now support the referendum.

Quote from: AQMP on June 21, 2016, 03:03:18 PM
Dodds supports a Brexit for the same reason as most DUPers.  He thinks it will lead to another (or several) degrees of separation between North and South.  I haven't heard one DUPer give any sort of argument as to why NI will be better off outside the EU. 

Villiers is a lightweight fuckwit who will be on her way if Remain prevails.

Quote from: imtommygunn on June 22, 2016, 10:14:01 AM

Quote from: blewuporstuffed on June 22, 2016, 08:34:41 AM

Quote from: seafoid on June 21, 2016, 08:00:03 PM

Quote from: AQMP on June 21, 2016, 03:03:18 PM

Quote from: seafoid on June 21, 2016, 02:46:47 PM
How do north of Ireland posters feel about Dodds and Villiers supporting leave?

Dodds supports a Brexit for the same reason as most DUPers.  He thinks it will lead to another (or several) degrees of separation between North and South.  I haven't heard one DUPer give any sort of argument as to why NI will be better off outside the EU. 

Villiers is a lightweight fuckwit who will be on her way if Remain prevails.

If DUP heads really think like that,  NI is fucked. Leave could cut UK GDP by 10%

Of course they think like that, that's a huge part of our problem here.Its like banging your head against a wall.

If the uk votes leave ni will not get the funding that it currently gets, i can't see it happening anyway, and will hit bad times.

I would see it pushing more nationalists wanting a ui so in my view it would weaken the union. Unionists are making a monumental c**k up pushing the leave agenda.

Despite all trade arguments etc i think they're a crock of shit and they just want border controls.

Quote from: seafoid on June 22, 2016, 11:47:37 AM

Quote from: imtommygunn on June 22, 2016, 10:14:01 AM

Quote from: blewuporstuffed on June 22, 2016, 08:34:41 AM

Quote from: seafoid on June 21, 2016, 08:00:03 PM

Quote from: AQMP on June 21, 2016, 03:03:18 PM

Quote from: seafoid on June 21, 2016, 02:46:47 PM
How do north of Ireland posters feel about Dodds and Villiers supporting leave?

Dodds supports a Brexit for the same reason as most DUPers.  He thinks it will lead to another (or several) degrees of separation between North and South.  I haven't heard one DUPer give any sort of argument as to why NI will be better off outside the EU. 

Villiers is a lightweight fuckwit who will be on her way if Remain prevails.

If DUP heads really think like that,  NI is fucked. Leave could cut UK GDP by 10%

Of course they think like that, that's a huge part of our problem here.Its like banging your head against a wall.

If the uk votes leave ni will not get the funding that it currently gets, i can't see it happening anyway, and will hit bad times.

I would see it pushing more nationalists wanting a ui so in my view it would weaken the union. Unionists are making a monumental c**k up pushing the leave agenda.

Despite all trade arguments etc i think they're a crock of shit and they just want border controls.

Thinking unionists understand the value of trade with and investment from the South

Quote from: T Fearon on June 22, 2016, 12:42:58 PM
Northern nationalists will in large part swing this vote for remain.Will they get any political reward from the Dublin Govt for doing so?

Quote from: T Fearon on June 22, 2016, 12:42:58 PM
Northern nationalists will in large part swing this vote for remain.Will they get any political reward from the Dublin Govt for doing so?

Quote from: guy crouchback on June 22, 2016, 01:44:09 PM

Quote from: T Fearon on June 22, 2016, 12:42:58 PM
Northern nationalists will in large part swing this vote for remain.Will they get any political reward from the Dublin Govt for doing so?

i think this might be the single most stupid comment made by anyone in relation to the entire brexit debate.

Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on June 22, 2016, 11:39:17 AM

Quote from: AQMP on June 21, 2016, 03:03:18 PM
Dodds supports a Brexit for the same reason as most DUPers.  He thinks it will lead to another (or several) degrees of separation between North and South.  I haven't heard one DUPer give any sort of argument as to why NI will be better off outside the EU. 

Villiers is a lightweight fuckwit who will be on her way if Remain prevails.

It's called cutting of your nose despite your face. I think you are bang on the money here. The DUP think that in leaving it'll put a bigger wedge between the North and the South. But they don't have the leadership and vision (as we have seen on many issues) to see what a short term plan that is. I'm not sure if this lack of foresight is simply just down to the fact they don't want to go down in history as "the generation that failed Unionism" even though that's exactly what they are setting up for future Unionist generations. Always smacks of a not on my watch attitude.

Quote from: imtommygunn on June 22, 2016, 06:26:09 PM
Cutting your nose to spite yor face... >:(

Quote from: bennydorano on June 21, 2016, 07:34:18 PM

Quote from: Oghams Law on June 21, 2016, 04:30:38 PM
http://uk.businessinsider.com/wef-countries-with-highest-level-of-government-debt-vs-gdp-2015-10

Of the Top 17 countires with the highest level of gov debt how many do you think are in the EU?

What would be wrong with a free trade agreement in Europe only without striving for a United States of Europe?
Vote Leave

No quite brave enough to post under your primary account though? Not that convinced then.

New to the gaaboard friend this is my only and therefore primary account

Quote from: LeoMc on June 21, 2016, 09:52:38 PM

Quote from: Oghams Law on June 21, 2016, 04:30:38 PM
http://uk.businessinsider.com/wef-countries-with-highest-level-of-government-debt-vs-gdp-2015-10

Of the Top 17 countires with the highest level of gov debt how many do you think are in the EU?

What would be wrong with a free trade agreement in Europe only without striving for a United States of Europe?
Vote Leave

So they will be able to negotiate a better deal from outside without complying with EU directives?

Quote from: heganboy on June 22, 2016, 07:05:14 PM
paddy Power has the remain option as 2/7 and over 750 grand on it, hard to see them getting a market that wrong...

Quote from: Farrandeelin on June 22, 2016, 10:47:38 PM
So will everything carry on as normal if (as I assume) they remain? Or will there be differences then too?

Quote from: Oghams Law on June 22, 2016, 07:19:18 PM

Quote from: LeoMc on June 21, 2016, 09:52:38 PM

Quote from: Oghams Law on June 21, 2016, 04:30:38 PM
http://uk.businessinsider.com/wef-countries-with-highest-level-of-government-debt-vs-gdp-2015-10

Of the Top 17 countires with the highest level of gov debt how many do you think are in the EU?

What would be wrong with a free trade agreement in Europe only without striving for a United States of Europe?
Vote Leave

So they will be able to negotiate a better deal from outside without complying with EU directives?

No but a leave vote would spell the beginning of the end for the eu in its current form. Polls suggest france would follow and it would be unworkable without uk & france. It could be replaced with a free trade agreement.

Quote from: imtommygunn on June 22, 2016, 10:54:07 PM
A good few of the leave reasons are to take back control and to me they are just excuses from a failing tory government. Nothing in the eu can change that.

There will be other things though.

Quote from: AQMP on June 23, 2016, 06:41:24 AM

Quote from: Rossfan on June 23, 2016, 12:50:04 AM
Are ye 6 Co lads and lassies voting and. If so how?

Yes - Remain

Quote from: Rossfan on June 23, 2016, 12:50:04 AM
Are ye 6 Co lads and lassies voting and. If so how?

Quote from: Rossfan on June 23, 2016, 12:50:04 AM
Are ye 6 Co lads and lassies voting and. If so how?

Quote from: Oghams Law on June 23, 2016, 09:46:40 AM
Leave

My reasons:

The EU is not preforming well economically.

QuoteThe uk imports more from eu than exports so a trade agreement will be a no brainer for them. ( the roi has aleady agreed in principle to this )

QuoteThe uk will be free to trade outside eu with the largest economies of the world on its own terms.

QuoteThe uk should be free to develop its own immigration policy following a needs based model

QuoteThe EU will continue down the route of 'ever closer union'

QuoteThe eu will remove Irelands ability to set corporation tax in the coming years and with it the last thread of soverignty.

Quote from: Oghams Law on June 23, 2016, 10:22:26 AM
Muppet,
Im irish, but I can vote on this
As regards immigration 150,000 eu citizens settled in uk last year alone so wouldnt say leaving the eu would have no impact  ;D
As regards corp tax Britain wont vote in Irelands interest, but I will
I have met politicians and no idea what your on about with mayo

Quote from: seafoid on June 23, 2016, 10:30:17 AM
Immigration is a key plank of neoliberalism. The ideology generates SFA economic growth because it takes money from ordinary people to give to the rich.   Immigration does generate growth though since the more people in a country the more money they spend. If the population grows by 2% then economic activity increases.

Changing the economic system is urgent. Without neoliberalism immigration would fall and workers would get pay rises .

Quote from: Oghams Law on June 23, 2016, 10:22:26 AM
Muppet,
Im irish, but I can vote on this
As regards immigration 150,000 eu citizens settled in uk last year alone so wouldnt say leaving the eu would have no impact  ;D
As regards corp tax Britain wont vote in Irelands interest, but I will
I have met politicians and no idea what your on about with mayo

Quote from: Oghams Law on June 23, 2016, 09:46:40 AM
Leave

My reasons:

The uk should be free to develop its own immigration policy following a needs based model

Quote from: yellowcard on June 23, 2016, 10:46:42 AM

Quote from: Oghams Law on June 23, 2016, 09:46:40 AM
Leave

My reasons:

The uk should be free to develop its own immigration policy following a needs based model

Am I right in saying your Irish, living in the UK and want to control immigration?!

Quote from: NAG1 on June 23, 2016, 10:39:32 AM

Quote from: Oghams Law on June 23, 2016, 10:22:26 AM
Muppet,
Im irish, but I can vote on this
As regards immigration 150,000 eu citizens settled in uk last year alone so wouldnt say leaving the eu would have no impact  ;D
As regards corp tax Britain wont vote in Irelands interest, but I will
I have met politicians and no idea what your on about with mayo

Any Irish person using immigration as an excuse, needs to take a serious look at themselves.

Quote from: Lazer on June 23, 2016, 11:10:56 AM
Leave

The EU is unrecognizable from the EEC that the UK voted for in 1975

What with the EU be like in 2025 - will it even be recognizable as the same one we are voting for today?

I fully support the EEC, and the original concepts of free trade and free movement of labour between countries that are economically, politically and culturally similar, however the EU has become a political body as well as a trading body, and the 28 member states are no longer similar enough for the concept to be a success.

The EU (and especially the Euro) are failing in my opinion

Don't like the unfair competition laws - ie: A country can't prop up failing businesses and protect employment as this would be considered state aid and yet the EU can encourage investment in disadvantaged areas and give them aid in the form of grants.

The reduction in the block grant if we lower corporation tax, is mandated by the EU (OK Westminster may have choosen to reduce it anyway, but at least there would be a possibility it may not be reduced)

The EU is enforcing laws and austerity measures on Ireland, water charges are/were mandatory as part of the measures enforced by the EU as a condition of the bailout, which they forced Ireland to accept.

I don't like the EU overruling the laws of a member nation and being able to force them to comply.

Its bad enough being ruled by the UK, its worse being ruled by an even further detached foreign parliament.

Quote from: Lazer on June 23, 2016, 11:10:56 AM
The EU is unrecognizable from the EEC that the UK voted for in 1975

What with the EU be like in 2025 - will it even be recognizable as the same one we are voting for today?

I fully support the EEC, and the original concepts of free trade and free movement of labour between countries that are economically, politically and culturally similar, however the EU has become a political body as well as a trading body, and the 28 member states are no longer similar enough for the concept to be a success.

The EU (and especially the Euro) are failing in my opinion

Don't like the unfair competition laws - ie: A country can't prop up failing businesses and protect employment as this would be considered state aid and yet the EU can encourage investment in disadvantaged areas and give them aid in the form of grants.

The reduction in the block grant if we lower corporation tax, is mandated by the EU (OK Westminster may (and probably would have) have choosen to reduce it anyway, but at least there would be a possibility it may not be reduced or at least negotiated a better deal)

The EU is enforcing laws and austerity measures on Ireland, water charges are/were mandatory as part of the measures enforced by the EU as a condition of the bailout, which they forced Ireland to accept.

I don't like the EU overruling the laws of a member nation and being able to force them to comply.

Its bad enough being ruled by the UK, its worse being ruled by an even further detached foreign parliament.

Quote from: Oghams Law on June 23, 2016, 11:12:09 AM

Quote from: NAG1 on June 23, 2016, 10:39:32 AM

Quote from: Oghams Law on June 23, 2016, 10:22:26 AM
Muppet,
Im irish, but I can vote on this
As regards immigration 150,000 eu citizens settled in uk last year alone so wouldnt say leaving the eu would have no impact  ;D
As regards corp tax Britain wont vote in Irelands interest, but I will
I have met politicians and no idea what your on about with mayo

Any Irish person using immigration as an excuse, needs to take a serious look at themselves.

How so? Controlling Immigration I said not stopping it. There are many Irish people in Australia atm (my family members amoung them). Australia controls immigration based on their needs. Common sense I would of thought. Do you see the difference?

Quote from: muppet on June 23, 2016, 11:13:06 AM

Quote from: Lazer on June 23, 2016, 11:10:56 AM
Leave

The EU is unrecognizable from the EEC that the UK voted for in 1975

What with the EU be like in 2025 - will it even be recognizable as the same one we are voting for today?

I fully support the EEC, and the original concepts of free trade and free movement of labour between countries that are economically, politically and culturally similar, however the EU has become a political body as well as a trading body, and the 28 member states are no longer similar enough for the concept to be a success.

The EU (and especially the Euro) are failing in my opinion

Don't like the unfair competition laws - ie: A country can't prop up failing businesses and protect employment as this would be considered state aid and yet the EU can encourage investment in disadvantaged areas and give them aid in the form of grants.

The reduction in the block grant if we lower corporation tax, is mandated by the EU (OK Westminster may have choosen to reduce it anyway, but at least there would be a possibility it may not be reduced)

The EU is enforcing laws and austerity measures on Ireland, water charges are/were mandatory as part of the measures enforced by the EU as a condition of the bailout, which they forced Ireland to accept.

I don't like the EU overruling the laws of a member nation and being able to force them to comply.

Its bad enough being ruled by the UK, its worse being ruled by an even further detached foreign parliament.

Are you confusing the Eurozone and the EU?

Quote from: Rossfan on June 23, 2016, 11:25:58 AM
Wait till the Spanish send all them Brits back home as illegals.
And no matter what the Brits do they have to take in people seeking asylum or will they leave the UN too " because it's more foreigners telling them what to do"
If the Brits leave the EU what happens with the 800,000 Irish( EU)  citizens in the 6 Cos?

Quote from: supersub on June 23, 2016, 09:51:29 AM
I do not know how any lay person can be well enough informed to take the risk, and that is what it is, to vote to leave the EU. The carefully chosen spin you hear from Brexit campaigners should certainly not be enough to shape public views. The whole thing is built on if, buts, maybes and more than anything, assumptions. They assume they will be better of, they assume they will have more control. Serious risk.

Quote from: NAG1 on June 23, 2016, 10:39:32 AM

Quote from: Oghams Law on June 23, 2016, 10:22:26 AM
Muppet,
Im irish, but I can vote on this
As regards immigration 150,000 eu citizens settled in uk last year alone so wouldnt say leaving the eu would have no impact  ;D
As regards corp tax Britain wont vote in Irelands interest, but I will
I have met politicians and no idea what your on about with mayo

Any Irish person using immigration as an excuse, needs to take a serious look at themselves.

Quote from: armaghniac on June 23, 2016, 11:49:20 AM
Support  for Farage and the DUP is not in the interests of any part of Ireland.
This is too important  to be associated with fad trivialities like water charges.

Quote from: Applesisapples on June 23, 2016, 12:11:13 PM
Set aside the economic arguments, which in my view can be twisted either way. If you want border controls when you go any where in the EU vote Brexit, if you want the NHS collapsing because we can't train enough local staff vote Brexit. If you want red tape and Custom houses from Lifford to Newry vote Brexit.

Quote from: Lazer on June 23, 2016, 12:24:14 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on June 23, 2016, 12:11:13 PM
Set aside the economic arguments, which in my view can be twisted either way. If you want border controls when you go any where in the EU vote Brexit, if you want the NHS collapsing because we can't train enough local staff vote Brexit. If you want red tape and Custom houses from Lifford to Newry vote Brexit.

Immigration to the NHS will not stop because of a Brexit - we have plenty of Asians training to be medical staff here and Asia isn't in the EU.

As for customs, ever walked through Dublin or Belfast airport coming off a non EU flight? How often do you get stopped? Its mainly a matter of spot checks and putting the emphasis on you declare any goods which may be subject to tariffs or import taxes.

Quote from: AQMP on June 23, 2016, 12:24:50 PM

Quote from: No wides on June 23, 2016, 11:57:25 AM

Quote from: NAG1 on June 23, 2016, 10:39:32 AM

Quote from: Oghams Law on June 23, 2016, 10:22:26 AM
Muppet,
Im irish, but I can vote on this
As regards immigration 150,000 eu citizens settled in uk last year alone so wouldnt say leaving the eu would have no impact  ;D
As regards corp tax Britain wont vote in Irelands interest, but I will
I have met politicians and no idea what your on about with mayo

Any Irish person using immigration as an excuse, needs to take a serious look at themselves.

Yeah because not having enough housing, school places, doctors etc to deal with what is here, isn't a real issue, unless you are implying they are all racist?

The pressure on the Health Service, education and housing etc is not the fault of immigrants...it's the fault of people who consistently vote for governments that cut support to the NHS, refuse to invest in building enough affordable homes, and cut budgets to education authorities..i.e the electorate (the vast majority of whom aren't immigrants)

Quote from: Rossfan on June 23, 2016, 12:17:11 PM
What's a European tax code?
When was it introduced?
The red herrings are fairly flying from no wides and Lazer ::)
And they even got every loonyleftie's favourite subject in " water charges".
The English/Scots/ Welsh will still be paying for water if they leave the EU and it won't be long before the 6 Cos will be taken off life support by the London Govt.
Meanwhile farmers in the 6 Cos will be fcukd without the EU cheque while cheap South American beef will close them down altogether.
And the EU wont have much time for Irish citizens living outside the EU.

Quote from: muppet on June 23, 2016, 01:02:13 PM

Quote from: Lazer on June 23, 2016, 12:24:14 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on June 23, 2016, 12:11:13 PM
Set aside the economic arguments, which in my view can be twisted either way. If you want border controls when you go any where in the EU vote Brexit, if you want the NHS collapsing because we can't train enough local staff vote Brexit. If you want red tape and Custom houses from Lifford to Newry vote Brexit.

Immigration to the NHS will not stop because of a Brexit - we have plenty of Asians training to be medical staff here and Asia isn't in the EU.

As for customs, ever walked through Dublin or Belfast airport coming off a non EU flight? How often do you get stopped? Its mainly a matter of spot checks and putting the emphasis on you declare any goods which may be subject to tariffs or import taxes.

You have to pass through non-EU passport control. Even though the line is often shorter, the scrutiny is far, far higher. You often see families left sitting for hours upstream of passport control in Dublin Airport, for example. Many people are deported straight back to where they came from on the basis of passport control.  You'll know all about it if the vote is Leave.

Customs is something completely different entirely.

Quote from: Oghams Law on June 23, 2016, 01:25:10 PM
A Leave vote is the only hope for a Reunited Ireland.
As it stands there is no border and as both countries are governed by the EU not much political difference.Judging by the polls there is no desire for it (around 70 30).  Nationalists are reasonably content with the status quo so somehting needs to happen to change this. It could pave the way for Scottish independance and the break up of the union.

Quote from: OgraAnDun on June 23, 2016, 01:09:45 PM

Quote from: muppet on June 23, 2016, 01:02:13 PM

Quote from: Lazer on June 23, 2016, 12:24:14 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on June 23, 2016, 12:11:13 PM
Set aside the economic arguments, which in my view can be twisted either way. If you want border controls when you go any where in the EU vote Brexit, if you want the NHS collapsing because we can't train enough local staff vote Brexit. If you want red tape and Custom houses from Lifford to Newry vote Brexit.

Immigration to the NHS will not stop because of a Brexit - we have plenty of Asians training to be medical staff here and Asia isn't in the EU.

As for customs, ever walked through Dublin or Belfast airport coming off a non EU flight? How often do you get stopped? Its mainly a matter of spot checks and putting the emphasis on you declare any goods which may be subject to tariffs or import taxes.

You have to pass through non-EU passport control. Even though the line is often shorter, the scrutiny is far, far higher. You often see families left sitting for hours upstream of passport control in Dublin Airport, for example. Many people are deported straight back to where they came from on the basis of passport control.  You'll know all about it if the vote is Leave.

Customs is something completely different entirely.

That's only if you don't have an EU passport, I believe? So you could be traveling on an American passport and flying in from Paris and you would still be put in the non-EU queue.

Quote from: Lazer on June 23, 2016, 12:24:14 PM

As for customs, ever walked through Dublin or Belfast airport coming off a non EU flight? How often do you get stopped? Its mainly a matter of spot checks and putting the emphasis on you declare any goods which may be subject to tariffs or import taxes.

Quote from: muppet on June 23, 2016, 01:51:46 PM

Quote from: OgraAnDun on June 23, 2016, 01:09:45 PM

Quote from: muppet on June 23, 2016, 01:02:13 PM

Quote from: Lazer on June 23, 2016, 12:24:14 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on June 23, 2016, 12:11:13 PM
Set aside the economic arguments, which in my view can be twisted either way. If you want border controls when you go any where in the EU vote Brexit, if you want the NHS collapsing because we can't train enough local staff vote Brexit. If you want red tape and Custom houses from Lifford to Newry vote Brexit.

Immigration to the NHS will not stop because of a Brexit - we have plenty of Asians training to be medical staff here and Asia isn't in the EU.

As for customs, ever walked through Dublin or Belfast airport coming off a non EU flight? How often do you get stopped? Its mainly a matter of spot checks and putting the emphasis on you declare any goods which may be subject to tariffs or import taxes.

You have to pass through non-EU passport control. Even though the line is often shorter, the scrutiny is far, far higher. You often see families left sitting for hours upstream of passport control in Dublin Airport, for example. Many people are deported straight back to where they came from on the basis of passport control.  You'll know all about it if the vote is Leave.

Customs is something completely different entirely.

That's only if you don't have an EU passport, I believe? So you could be traveling on an American passport and flying in from Paris and you would still be put in the non-EU queue.

Of course. Aren't they the devils we are trying to stop?

Leave the EU and every nation will be the devils you are trying to stop. With the probable exception of Ireland.

Quote from: Applesisapples on June 23, 2016, 02:20:19 PM
Fcuk it ok lads lets all vote Brexit and sod the consequences sure its no worse than sticking a few quid on with Paddy Power.

Quote from: armaghniac on June 23, 2016, 02:32:35 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on June 23, 2016, 02:20:19 PM
Fcuk it ok lads lets all vote Brexit and sod the consequences sure its no worse than sticking a few quid on with Paddy Power.

OK we'll  have a recession  and checkpoints and anarchy in order areas,  but we'll have made a point about water  charges

Quote from: No wides on June 23, 2016, 01:06:18 PM

Quote from: AQMP on June 23, 2016, 12:24:50 PM

Quote from: No wides on June 23, 2016, 11:57:25 AM

Quote from: NAG1 on June 23, 2016, 10:39:32 AM

Quote from: Oghams Law on June 23, 2016, 10:22:26 AM
Muppet,
Im irish, but I can vote on this
As regards immigration 150,000 eu citizens settled in uk last year alone so wouldnt say leaving the eu would have no impact  ;D
As regards corp tax Britain wont vote in Irelands interest, but I will
I have met politicians and no idea what your on about with mayo

Any Irish person using immigration as an excuse, needs to take a serious look at themselves.

Yeah because not having enough housing, school places, doctors etc to deal with what is here, isn't a real issue, unless you are implying they are all racist?

The pressure on the Health Service, education and housing etc is not the fault of immigrants...it's the fault of people who consistently vote for governments that cut support to the NHS, refuse to invest in building enough affordable homes, and cut budgets to education authorities..i.e the electorate (the vast majority of whom aren't immigrants)

Yeah nothing to do with immigration!  http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/net-migration-pushes-uk-population-to-over-65-million-a3279016.html (http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/net-migration-pushes-uk-population-to-over-65-million-a3279016.html)

Quote from: No wides on June 23, 2016, 01:08:42 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on June 23, 2016, 12:17:11 PM
What's a European tax code?
When was it introduced?
The red herrings are fairly flying from no wides and Lazer ::)
And they even got every loonyleftie's favourite subject in " water charges".
The English/Scots/ Welsh will still be paying for water if they leave the EU and it won't be long before the 6 Cos will be taken off life support by the London Govt.
Meanwhile farmers in the 6 Cos will be fcukd without the EU cheque while cheap South American beef will close them down altogether.
And the EU wont have much time for Irish citizens living outside the EU.

You will get it in the next few years when Turkey joins as a pat on the back for keeping the Syrian refugees!

Quote from: No wides on June 23, 2016, 01:08:42 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on June 23, 2016, 12:17:11 PM
What's a European tax code?
When was it introduced?
The red herrings are fairly flying from no wides and Lazer ::)
And they even got every loonyleftie's favourite subject in " water charges".
The English/Scots/ Welsh will still be paying for water if they leave the EU and it won't be long before the 6 Cos will be taken off life support by the London Govt.
Meanwhile farmers in the 6 Cos will be fcukd without the EU cheque while cheap South American beef will close them down altogether.
And the EU wont have much time for Irish citizens living outside the EU.

You will get it in the next few years when Turkey joins as a pat on the back for keeping the Syrian refugees!

Quote from: armaghniac on June 23, 2016, 02:32:35 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on June 23, 2016, 02:20:19 PM
Fcuk it ok lads lets all vote Brexit and sod the consequences sure its no worse than sticking a few quid on with Paddy Power.

OK we'll  have a recession  and checkpoints and anarchy in order areas,  but we'll have made a point about water  charges

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 23, 2016, 03:33:24 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on June 23, 2016, 02:32:35 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on June 23, 2016, 02:20:19 PM
Fcuk it ok lads lets all vote Brexit and sod the consequences sure its no worse than sticking a few quid on with Paddy Power.

OK we'll  have a recession  and checkpoints and anarchy in order areas,  but we'll have made a point about water  charges

Checkpoints might stop the red and green diesel smugglers making money, so that's not a bad thing? Still undecided but by all accounts this will be a remain anyways.....

Quote from: armaghniac on June 23, 2016, 03:58:31 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 23, 2016, 03:33:24 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on June 23, 2016, 02:32:35 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on June 23, 2016, 02:20:19 PM
Fcuk it ok lads lets all vote Brexit and sod the consequences sure its no worse than sticking a few quid on with Paddy Power.

OK we'll  have a recession  and checkpoints and anarchy in order areas,  but we'll have made a point about water  charges

Checkpoints might stop the red and green diesel smugglers making money, so that's not a bad thing? Still undecided but by all accounts this will be a remain anyways.....

A Brexit would be a smugglers paradise, only the legit businesses would suffer the delays

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 23, 2016, 03:33:24 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on June 23, 2016, 02:32:35 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on June 23, 2016, 02:20:19 PM
Fcuk it ok lads lets all vote Brexit and sod the consequences sure its no worse than sticking a few quid on with Paddy Power.

OK we'll  have a recession  and checkpoints and anarchy in order areas,  but we'll have made a point about water  charges

Checkpoints might stop the red and green diesel smugglers making money, so that's not a bad thing? Still undecided but by all accounts this will be a remain anyways.....

Seen a great post about how the immigrants are stealing jobs.. They don't!! they are doing the jobs here that no one wants to do..... if we close down this avenue for immigrants to come here to work in our health service our Moy Parks and the other industries that they have increased the production rates who is going to do it?

Quote from: LeoMc on June 23, 2016, 03:15:12 PM

Quote from: No wides on June 23, 2016, 01:06:18 PM

Quote from: AQMP on June 23, 2016, 12:24:50 PM

Quote from: No wides on June 23, 2016, 11:57:25 AM

Quote from: NAG1 on June 23, 2016, 10:39:32 AM

Quote from: Oghams Law on June 23, 2016, 10:22:26 AM
Muppet,
Im irish, but I can vote on this
As regards immigration 150,000 eu citizens settled in uk last year alone so wouldnt say leaving the eu would have no impact  ;D
As regards corp tax Britain wont vote in Irelands interest, but I will
I have met politicians and no idea what your on about with mayo

Any Irish person using immigration as an excuse, needs to take a serious look at themselves.

Yeah because not having enough housing, school places, doctors etc to deal with what is here, isn't a real issue, unless you are implying they are all racist?

The pressure on the Health Service, education and housing etc is not the fault of immigrants...it's the fault of people who consistently vote for governments that cut support to the NHS, refuse to invest in building enough affordable homes, and cut budgets to education authorities..i.e the electorate (the vast majority of whom aren't immigrants)

Yeah nothing to do with immigration!  http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/net-migration-pushes-uk-population-to-over-65-million-a3279016.html (http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/net-migration-pushes-uk-population-to-over-65-million-a3279016.html)

So if the infrastructure cannot handle a >1% increase in population, half of which is UK births and half of the remainder from outside the EU it is all the fault of the 0.0025% immigrants from inside the EU for pushing it over the edge?

Quote from: LeoMc on June 23, 2016, 03:17:06 PM

Quote from: No wides on June 23, 2016, 01:08:42 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on June 23, 2016, 12:17:11 PM
What's a European tax code?
When was it introduced?
The red herrings are fairly flying from no wides and Lazer ::)
And they even got every loonyleftie's favourite subject in " water charges".
The English/Scots/ Welsh will still be paying for water if they leave the EU and it won't be long before the 6 Cos will be taken off life support by the London Govt.
Meanwhile farmers in the 6 Cos will be fcukd without the EU cheque while cheap South American beef will close them down altogether.
And the EU wont have much time for Irish citizens living outside the EU.

You will get it in the next few years when Turkey joins as a pat on the back for keeping the Syrian refugees!

And they meet the 35 non-negotiable conditions (only 1 of which they have met since 1987)  and all 28 current Countries (including the UK and Cyprus) accept them.

Quote from: OgraAnDun on June 23, 2016, 02:15:09 PM

Quote from: muppet on June 23, 2016, 01:51:46 PM

Quote from: OgraAnDun on June 23, 2016, 01:09:45 PM

Quote from: muppet on June 23, 2016, 01:02:13 PM

Quote from: Lazer on June 23, 2016, 12:24:14 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on June 23, 2016, 12:11:13 PM
Set aside the economic arguments, which in my view can be twisted either way. If you want border controls when you go any where in the EU vote Brexit, if you want the NHS collapsing because we can't train enough local staff vote Brexit. If you want red tape and Custom houses from Lifford to Newry vote Brexit.

Immigration to the NHS will not stop because of a Brexit - we have plenty of Asians training to be medical staff here and Asia isn't in the EU.

As for customs, ever walked through Dublin or Belfast airport coming off a non EU flight? How often do you get stopped? Its mainly a matter of spot checks and putting the emphasis on you declare any goods which may be subject to tariffs or import taxes.

You have to pass through non-EU passport control. Even though the line is often shorter, the scrutiny is far, far higher. You often see families left sitting for hours upstream of passport control in Dublin Airport, for example. Many people are deported straight back to where they came from on the basis of passport control.  You'll know all about it if the vote is Leave.

Customs is something completely different entirely.

That's only if you don't have an EU passport, I believe? So you could be traveling on an American passport and flying in from Paris and you would still be put in the non-EU queue.

Of course. Aren't they the devils we are trying to stop?

Leave the EU and every nation will be the devils you are trying to stop. With the probable exception of Ireland.

Any nationalist should have an Irish passport anyway so shouldn't give a toss about that. I've driven from France to Swizterland and back before and never had to bother with any queues or traffic.

The Leave=UI argument is that there will be no border and it will move to Britain, Ireland will be treated as one entity and Scotland will leave.

I ended up voting In, mainly because I think it's important that any Brexit is against the will of nationalist areas (who want to remain in the EU and therefore there is an appetite for a UI), and the risk of border posts in Ireland (which I don't believe will happen) was too big a risk, I couldn't be bothered being searched by British soldiers every few days.

Quote from: No wides on June 23, 2016, 05:06:54 PM

Quote from: LeoMc on June 23, 2016, 03:17:06 PM

Quote from: No wides on June 23, 2016, 01:08:42 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on June 23, 2016, 12:17:11 PM
What's a European tax code?
When was it introduced?
The red herrings are fairly flying from no wides and Lazer ::)
And they even got every loonyleftie's favourite subject in " water charges".
The English/Scots/ Welsh will still be paying for water if they leave the EU and it won't be long before the 6 Cos will be taken off life support by the London Govt.
Meanwhile farmers in the 6 Cos will be fcukd without the EU cheque while cheap South American beef will close them down altogether.
And the EU wont have much time for Irish citizens living outside the EU.

You will get it in the next few years when Turkey joins as a pat on the back for keeping the Syrian refugees!

And they meet the 35 non-negotiable conditions (only 1 of which they have met since 1987)  and all 28 current Countries (including the UK and Cyprus) accept them.

You have your head up your hole if you think Turkey won't get special treatment to join.

Quote from: LeoMc on June 23, 2016, 05:54:37 PM

Quote from: No wides on June 23, 2016, 05:06:54 PM

Quote from: LeoMc on June 23, 2016, 03:17:06 PM

Quote from: No wides on June 23, 2016, 01:08:42 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on June 23, 2016, 12:17:11 PM
What's a European tax code?
When was it introduced?
The red herrings are fairly flying from no wides and Lazer ::)
And they even got every loonyleftie's favourite subject in " water charges".
The English/Scots/ Welsh will still be paying for water if they leave the EU and it won't be long before the 6 Cos will be taken off life support by the London Govt.
Meanwhile farmers in the 6 Cos will be fcukd without the EU cheque while cheap South American beef will close them down altogether.
And the EU wont have much time for Irish citizens living outside the EU.

You will get it in the next few years when Turkey joins as a pat on the back for keeping the Syrian refugees!

And they meet the 35 non-negotiable conditions (only 1 of which they have met since 1987)  and all 28 current Countries (including the UK and Cyprus) accept them.

You have your head up your hole if you think Turkey won't get special treatment to join.

I don't doubt they will get help to meet the 34 criteria but they will still have to meet them. If they do meet those criteria which include human rights, judicial independence, press freedom, religious freedom, etc, I see no issue with them joining. They are wealthier than many Countries already in the EU.
Do you think the Greeks and Cypriots  will just roll over?

Quote from: muppet on June 23, 2016, 05:51:11 PM

Quote from: OgraAnDun on June 23, 2016, 02:15:09 PM

Quote from: muppet on June 23, 2016, 01:51:46 PM

Quote from: OgraAnDun on June 23, 2016, 01:09:45 PM

Quote from: muppet on June 23, 2016, 01:02:13 PM

Quote from: Lazer on June 23, 2016, 12:24:14 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on June 23, 2016, 12:11:13 PM
Set aside the economic arguments, which in my view can be twisted either way. If you want border controls when you go any where in the EU vote Brexit, if you want the NHS collapsing because we can't train enough local staff vote Brexit. If you want red tape and Custom houses from Lifford to Newry vote Brexit.

Immigration to the NHS will not stop because of a Brexit - we have plenty of Asians training to be medical staff here and Asia isn't in the EU.

As for customs, ever walked through Dublin or Belfast airport coming off a non EU flight? How often do you get stopped? Its mainly a matter of spot checks and putting the emphasis on you declare any goods which may be subject to tariffs or import taxes.

You have to pass through non-EU passport control. Even though the line is often shorter, the scrutiny is far, far higher. You often see families left sitting for hours upstream of passport control in Dublin Airport, for example. Many people are deported straight back to where they came from on the basis of passport control.  You'll know all about it if the vote is Leave.

Customs is something completely different entirely.

That's only if you don't have an EU passport, I believe? So you could be traveling on an American passport and flying in from Paris and you would still be put in the non-EU queue.

Of course. Aren't they the devils we are trying to stop?

Leave the EU and every nation will be the devils you are trying to stop. With the probable exception of Ireland.

Any nationalist should have an Irish passport anyway so shouldn't give a toss about that. I've driven from France to Swizterland and back before and never had to bother with any queues or traffic.

The Leave=UI argument is that there will be no border and it will move to Britain, Ireland will be treated as one entity and Scotland will leave.

I ended up voting In, mainly because I think it's important that any Brexit is against the will of nationalist areas (who want to remain in the EU and therefore there is an appetite for a UI), and the risk of border posts in Ireland (which I don't believe will happen) was too big a risk, I couldn't be bothered being searched by British soldiers every few days.

Do you know why you weren't bothered by queues or traffic?

Quote from: OgraAnDun on June 23, 2016, 07:32:15 PM

Quote from: muppet on June 23, 2016, 05:51:11 PM

Quote from: OgraAnDun on June 23, 2016, 02:15:09 PM

Quote from: muppet on June 23, 2016, 01:51:46 PM

Quote from: OgraAnDun on June 23, 2016, 01:09:45 PM

Quote from: muppet on June 23, 2016, 01:02:13 PM

Quote from: Lazer on June 23, 2016, 12:24:14 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on June 23, 2016, 12:11:13 PM
Set aside the economic arguments, which in my view can be twisted either way. If you want border controls when you go any where in the EU vote Brexit, if you want the NHS collapsing because we can't train enough local staff vote Brexit. If you want red tape and Custom houses from Lifford to Newry vote Brexit.

Immigration to the NHS will not stop because of a Brexit - we have plenty of Asians training to be medical staff here and Asia isn't in the EU.

As for customs, ever walked through Dublin or Belfast airport coming off a non EU flight? How often do you get stopped? Its mainly a matter of spot checks and putting the emphasis on you declare any goods which may be subject to tariffs or import taxes.

You have to pass through non-EU passport control. Even though the line is often shorter, the scrutiny is far, far higher. You often see families left sitting for hours upstream of passport control in Dublin Airport, for example. Many people are deported straight back to where they came from on the basis of passport control.  You'll know all about it if the vote is Leave.

Customs is something completely different entirely.

That's only if you don't have an EU passport, I believe? So you could be traveling on an American passport and flying in from Paris and you would still be put in the non-EU queue.

Of course. Aren't they the devils we are trying to stop?

Leave the EU and every nation will be the devils you are trying to stop. With the probable exception of Ireland.

Any nationalist should have an Irish passport anyway so shouldn't give a toss about that. I've driven from France to Swizterland and back before and never had to bother with any queues or traffic.

The Leave=UI argument is that there will be no border and it will move to Britain, Ireland will be treated as one entity and Scotland will leave.

I ended up voting In, mainly because I think it's important that any Brexit is against the will of nationalist areas (who want to remain in the EU and therefore there is an appetite for a UI), and the risk of border posts in Ireland (which I don't believe will happen) was too big a risk, I couldn't be bothered being searched by British soldiers every few days.

Do you know why you weren't bothered by queues or traffic?

No, but somebody a few posts above me commented that there are big queues of traffic even though you rarely get stopped. I was refuting their point.

Quote from: muppet on June 23, 2016, 07:34:44 PM

Quote from: OgraAnDun on June 23, 2016, 07:32:15 PM

Quote from: muppet on June 23, 2016, 05:51:11 PM

Quote from: OgraAnDun on June 23, 2016, 02:15:09 PM


Any nationalist should have an Irish passport anyway so shouldn't give a toss about that. I've driven from France to Swizterland and back before and never had to bother with any queues or traffic.

The Leave=UI argument is that there will be no border and it will move to Britain, Ireland will be treated as one entity and Scotland will leave.

I ended up voting In, mainly because I think it's important that any Brexit is against the will of nationalist areas (who want to remain in the EU and therefore there is an appetite for a UI), and the risk of border posts in Ireland (which I don't believe will happen) was too big a risk, I couldn't be bothered being searched by British soldiers every few days.

Do you know why you weren't bothered by queues or traffic?

No, but somebody a few posts above me commented that there are big queues of traffic even though you rarely get stopped. I was refuting their point.

I have absolutely no idea what you point is and the only thing I am certain of at this stage, is that neither do you.  :D

Quote from: Rois on June 23, 2016, 02:09:09 PM

Quote from: Lazer on June 23, 2016, 12:24:14 PM

As for customs, ever walked through Dublin or Belfast airport coming off a non EU flight? How often do you get stopped? Its mainly a matter of spot checks and putting the emphasis on you declare any goods which may be subject to tariffs or import taxes.

Ever driven from Switzerland to France or vice versa?  You're not often stopped, but the queue is huge pain in the a$$.  Airports I can deal with (flying into Geneva isn't too bad).  Roads I pass frequently, and not to go on holiday but to work - not so much!

Quote from: OgraAnDun on June 23, 2016, 07:48:29 PM

Quote from: muppet on June 23, 2016, 07:34:44 PM

Quote from: OgraAnDun on June 23, 2016, 07:32:15 PM

Quote from: muppet on June 23, 2016, 05:51:11 PM

Quote from: OgraAnDun on June 23, 2016, 02:15:09 PM


Any nationalist should have an Irish passport anyway so shouldn't give a toss about that. I've driven from France to Swizterland and back before and never had to bother with any queues or traffic.

The Leave=UI argument is that there will be no border and it will move to Britain, Ireland will be treated as one entity and Scotland will leave.

I ended up voting In, mainly because I think it's important that any Brexit is against the will of nationalist areas (who want to remain in the EU and therefore there is an appetite for a UI), and the risk of border posts in Ireland (which I don't believe will happen) was too big a risk, I couldn't be bothered being searched by British soldiers every few days.

Do you know why you weren't bothered by queues or traffic?

No, but somebody a few posts above me commented that there are big queues of traffic even though you rarely get stopped. I was refuting their point.

I have absolutely no idea what you point is and the only thing I am certain of at this stage, is that neither do you.  :D

Quote from: Rois on June 23, 2016, 02:09:09 PM

Quote from: Lazer on June 23, 2016, 12:24:14 PM

As for customs, ever walked through Dublin or Belfast airport coming off a non EU flight? How often do you get stopped? Its mainly a matter of spot checks and putting the emphasis on you declare any goods which may be subject to tariffs or import taxes.

Ever driven from Switzerland to France or vice versa?  You're not often stopped, but the queue is huge pain in the a$$.  Airports I can deal with (flying into Geneva isn't too bad).  Roads I pass frequently, and not to go on holiday but to work - not so much!

Good lad muppet, don't bother checking back over the posts and live up to your username.

Quote from: imtommygunn on June 23, 2016, 10:01:40 PM
Fully agree. People would be much better voting tories out first then dealing with eu. They really are going to be the ruination of the whole of the uk and them combined with no eu would cripple ni.

Vote out of eu to give tories full control is quite a frightening prospect. One which i really hope i don't wake up to or it could be moving time.

Quote from: imtommygunn on June 23, 2016, 10:01:40 PM
Fully agree. People would be much better voting tories out first then dealing with eu. They really are going to be the ruination of the whole of the uk and them combined with no eu would cripple ni.

Vote out of eu to give tories full control is quite a frightening prospect. One which i really hope i don't wake up to or it could be moving time.

Quote from: seafoid on June 23, 2016, 10:37:08 PM

Quote from: imtommygunn on June 23, 2016, 10:01:40 PM
Fully agree. People would be much better voting tories out first then dealing with eu. They really are going to be the ruination of the whole of the uk and them combined with no eu would cripple ni.

Vote out of eu to give tories full control is quite a frightening prospect. One which i really hope i don't wake up to or it could be moving time.

Well said. Cameron made a dreadful misjudgement calling this vote  . The Tories have no ideas.

Quote from: imtommygunn on June 23, 2016, 10:50:14 PM
Yeah it is depressing. What the tories are doing to the nhs is criminal :-(

Quote from: imtommygunn on June 23, 2016, 10:50:14 PM
Yeah it is depressing. What the tories are doing to the nhs is criminal :-(

Quote from: BennyHarp on June 23, 2016, 10:59:54 PM
Farage reckons is a close win for remain.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 23, 2016, 11:02:41 PM

Quote from: imtommygunn on June 23, 2016, 10:50:14 PM
Yeah it is depressing. What the tories are doing to the nhs is criminal :-(

Would the NHS save money if we were charged £10 for doctors appointments and A&E visits?

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 23, 2016, 11:02:41 PM

Quote from: imtommygunn on June 23, 2016, 10:50:14 PM
Yeah it is depressing. What the tories are doing to the nhs is criminal :-(

Would the NHS save money if we were charged £10 for doctors appointments and A&E visits?

Quote from: screenexile on June 23, 2016, 11:08:13 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 23, 2016, 11:02:41 PM

Quote from: imtommygunn on June 23, 2016, 10:50:14 PM
Yeah it is depressing. What the tories are doing to the nhs is criminal :-(

Would the NHS save money if we were charged £10 for doctors appointments and A&E visits?

It's a slippery slope once you start charging. First it's a tenner then it will have to be in line with inflation and then who knows.

Remember tuition fees came in at £1,000 and are now up to £9,000 per year!!

Quote from: Shamrock Shore on June 23, 2016, 11:16:21 PM
Sticking my nose in where it doesn't belong but I do hope Cameron now wields the axe and fires all the cabinet that wanted out.

Yer wan Villers was just on Sky News and she would be top of my list (to fire, nothing else, no tittering down the back)

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 23, 2016, 11:15:45 PM

Quote from: screenexile on June 23, 2016, 11:08:13 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 23, 2016, 11:02:41 PM

Quote from: imtommygunn on June 23, 2016, 10:50:14 PM
Yeah it is depressing. What the tories are doing to the nhs is criminal :-(

Would the NHS save money if we were charged £10 for doctors appointments and A&E visits?

It's a slippery slope once you start charging. First it's a tenner then it will have to be in line with inflation and then who knows.

Remember tuition fees came in at £1,000 and are now up to £9,000 per year!!

I understand but what are the choices ?  NHS is at its knees no money for basic procedures, waiting lists that long that people give up waiting or die!! If they put a 6/7 year freeze at a tenner then you would see the doctors surgery's being a lot shorter and A&E with less people

Quote from: imtommygunn on June 23, 2016, 11:35:00 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 23, 2016, 11:15:45 PM

Quote from: screenexile on June 23, 2016, 11:08:13 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 23, 2016, 11:02:41 PM

Quote from: imtommygunn on June 23, 2016, 10:50:14 PM
Yeah it is depressing. What the tories are doing to the nhs is criminal :-(

Would the NHS save money if we were charged £10 for doctors appointments and A&E visits?

It's a slippery slope once you start charging. First it's a tenner then it will have to be in line with inflation and then who knows.

Remember tuition fees came in at £1,000 and are now up to £9,000 per year!!

I understand but what are the choices ?  NHS is at its knees no money for basic procedures, waiting lists that long that people give up waiting or die!! If they put a 6/7 year freeze at a tenner then you would see the doctors surgery's being a lot shorter and A&E with less people

It is all smoke and mirrors mr. It is being made very unattractive to push people to private. Incidentally a number of tories have vested interests in private health companies and the likes of hunt has written about how to privatise nhs in earlier political days.

It could be run much more efficiently for less money.

Quote from: SkillfulBill on June 23, 2016, 11:52:34 PM
Why does SF put Martina Anderson on TV She is really poor

Quote from: armaghniac on June 24, 2016, 12:18:18 AM
Sunderland 61% Leave.
It might be a long night.

Even the first Scottish place was only 59% Remain.

Quote from: BennyCake on June 24, 2016, 12:20:13 AM

Quote from: armaghniac on June 24, 2016, 12:18:18 AM
Sunderland 61% Leave.
It might be a long night.

Even the first Scottish place was only 59% Remain.

Howay the lads!

Quote from: Aaron Boone on June 24, 2016, 12:29:44 AM
Next result in England is now vital. I think Leave sense they can win this.

Quote from: Aaron Boone on June 24, 2016, 12:29:44 AM
Next result in England is now vital. I think Leave sense they can win this.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 24, 2016, 12:54:04 AM
Vast majority nationalist... Have all the national parties said remain??

Quote from: Aaron Boone on June 24, 2016, 01:12:30 AM
Any sign of customs posts & checkpoints at Newry?

I'm due to be in Sainsburys on Saturday.

Quote from: AQMP on June 24, 2016, 01:50:46 AM
It looks like Leave have got the vote out

Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on June 24, 2016, 05:03:27 AM
England/NI fans going to have some shock buying Euros in France tomorrow.

Quote from: AQMP on June 24, 2016, 05:12:38 AM
Sterling tumbling. Lowest against $ since 1985.

The question I don't think anyone has the answer to:

What the f**k happens now??

Quote from: AQMP on June 24, 2016, 04:53:50 AM
Cameron might have to go! Leave about 900k votes ahead. That looks like enough

Quote from: imtommygunn on June 24, 2016, 06:53:58 AM
We're f**ked in ni. Can't believe this. F**ked.

Quote from: imtommygunn on June 24, 2016, 06:53:58 AM
We're f**ked in ni. Can't believe this. F**ked.

Quote from: Farrandeelin on June 24, 2016, 07:02:13 AM

Quote from: imtommygunn on June 24, 2016, 06:53:58 AM
We're f**ked in ni. Can't believe this. F**ked.

Our economy will take a heavy hit too. Jesus H Christ, such news to wake up to. Cannot believe the English voters don't 'get' the economic aspect.

Quote from: thejuice on June 24, 2016, 06:27:32 AM
17million people wanted biscuit and 16million wanted cake.

Everyone gets biscuit.

Yay democracy!

Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 24, 2016, 07:08:43 AM

Quote from: Farrandeelin on June 24, 2016, 07:02:13 AM

Quote from: imtommygunn on June 24, 2016, 06:53:58 AM
We're f**ked in ni. Can't believe this. F**ked.

Our economy will take a heavy hit too. Jesus H Christ, such news to wake up to. Cannot believe the English voters don't 'get' the economic aspect.

There are millions of them who don't care because they believe it doesn't affect them. They only care what The S*n tells them about migrants.

Quote from: maddog on June 24, 2016, 07:23:26 AM

Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 24, 2016, 07:08:43 AM

Quote from: Farrandeelin on June 24, 2016, 07:02:13 AM

Quote from: imtommygunn on June 24, 2016, 06:53:58 AM
We're f**ked in ni. Can't believe this. F**ked.

Our economy will take a heavy hit too. Jesus H Christ, such news to wake up to. Cannot believe the English voters don't 'get' the economic aspect.

There are millions of them who don't care because they believe it doesn't affect them. They only care what The S*n tells them about migrants.

Never mind up coming recession, Abdul will be stuck in Calais. Job done. Stupid b**tards.

Quote from: BennyCake on June 24, 2016, 07:30:29 AM
All border areas voted remain. Scare tactics obviously worked.

Time for Enda to call a referendum now, and for Ireland to get out ta f**k!

Quote from: armaghniac on June 24, 2016, 07:36:03 AM

Quote from: BennyCake on June 24, 2016, 07:30:29 AM
All border areas voted remain. Scare tactics obviously worked.

Time for Enda to call a referendum now, and for Ireland to get out ta f**k!

Just because the guy beside you jumps over a cliff, doesn't mean you should.

Quote from: thewobbler on June 24, 2016, 07:34:42 AM
To be honest I'm sick to f**king death of the people on the remain side peddling the economics line.

Quote from: BennyCake on June 24, 2016, 07:38:30 AM

Quote from: armaghniac on June 24, 2016, 07:36:03 AM

Quote from: BennyCake on June 24, 2016, 07:30:29 AM
All border areas voted remain. Scare tactics obviously worked.

Time for Enda to call a referendum now, and for Ireland to get out ta f**k!

Just because the guy beside you jumps over a cliff, doesn't mean you should.

This is just the start of it. Europe's fucked.

Quote from: No wides on June 24, 2016, 07:41:09 AM

Quote from: BennyCake on June 24, 2016, 07:38:30 AM

Quote from: armaghniac on June 24, 2016, 07:36:03 AM

Quote from: BennyCake on June 24, 2016, 07:30:29 AM
All border areas voted remain. Scare tactics obviously worked.

Time for Enda to call a referendum now, and for Ireland to get out ta f**k!

Just because the guy beside you jumps over a cliff, doesn't mean you should.

This is just the start of it. Europe's fucked.

All their own making, France and Holland will follow with referendums.

Quote from: Aaron Boone on June 24, 2016, 07:41:49 AM
Can I still get La Liga on Sky Sports?

Quote from: general_lee on June 24, 2016, 07:39:11 AM

Quote from: thewobbler on June 24, 2016, 07:34:42 AM
To be honest I'm sick to f**king death of the people on the remain side peddling the economics line.

I take it you are a lot more trusting of our tory overlords than the average Nationalist.. (although to be fair you do seem to be a Unionist?)

If you think Boris and his chums are going to replace EU subsidies that places like NI benefited from then fair play to you. I and many others don't and you don't exactly need to be an Economist to see what the tories have done in days gone by.

Quote from: No wides on June 24, 2016, 07:41:09 AM

Quote from: BennyCake on June 24, 2016, 07:38:30 AM

Quote from: armaghniac on June 24, 2016, 07:36:03 AM

Quote from: BennyCake on June 24, 2016, 07:30:29 AM
All border areas voted remain. Scare tactics obviously worked.

Time for Enda to call a referendum now, and for Ireland to get out ta f**k!

Just because the guy beside you jumps over a cliff, doesn't mean you should.

This is just the start of it. Europe's fucked.

All their own making, France and Holland will follow with referendums.

Quote from: Syferus on June 24, 2016, 07:59:51 AM
Some people just want to destroy the world.

Quote from: thewobbler on June 24, 2016, 07:52:45 AM

Quote from: general_lee on June 24, 2016, 07:39:11 AM

Quote from: thewobbler on June 24, 2016, 07:34:42 AM
To be honest I'm sick to f**king death of the people on the remain side peddling the economics line.

I take it you are a lot more trusting of our tory overlords than the average Nationalist.. (although to be fair you do seem to be a Unionist?)

If you think Boris and his chums are going to replace EU subsidies that places like NI benefited from then fair play to you. I and many others don't and you don't exactly need to be an Economist to see what the tories have done in days gone by.

I don't believe it's as simplistic as you're describing (which basically  boils down to "Germans are good, Tories are bad"). Economics are much more complex and erratic than the role of the current government.

I'm ambivalent about the result. Emotionally I'd prefer the legal kinship with ROI, but politically I'd be in favour of streamlined administration, which means removing layers of government. I can't win in either scenario.

Quote from: The Down Way on June 24, 2016, 08:09:30 AM
Surprised and delighted by the result, hopefully we will see other countries, especially the Republic, following suit.
Now we need the Scots to reignite their campaign for independence, the UK is finished.

Quote from: theskull1 on June 24, 2016, 08:17:21 AM
A lot of people running around yelling that the sky IS falling.

Quote from: general_lee on June 24, 2016, 08:20:28 AM
Sterling dropped 8.4% overnight when 1% is usually considered substantial.

Quote from: theskull1 on June 24, 2016, 08:17:21 AM
A lot of people running around yelling that the sky IS falling.

Quote from: thejuice on June 24, 2016, 07:50:20 AM
Cameron went to Brussels to negotiate better terms and was given nothing by the Eurocrats. I can't say I'm feeling too sad for the Europhiles either right now. I guess I Will just have to ride the storm for now. Though my job could well be in trouble if investors in the housing market decide to go elsewhere.

Quote from: general_lee on June 24, 2016, 08:20:28 AM
Sterling dropped 8.4% overnight when 1% is usually considered substantial.

Quote from: theskull1 on June 24, 2016, 08:17:21 AM
A lot of people running around yelling that the sky IS falling.

Quote from: theskull1 on June 24, 2016, 08:31:08 AM

Quote from: general_lee on June 24, 2016, 08:20:28 AM
Sterling dropped 8.4% overnight when 1% is usually considered substantial.

Quote from: theskull1 on June 24, 2016, 08:17:21 AM
A lot of people running around yelling that the sky IS falling.

Yes
Trying to work out how much folk prophesying their own doom is actually bringing it about.

Quote from: AZOffaly on June 24, 2016, 08:26:44 AM
The Republic is the only English speaking member of the EU now. I wonder will that have any bearing on US investment?

Quote from: theskull1 on June 24, 2016, 08:17:21 AM
A lot of people running around yelling that the sky IS falling.

I'm wondering how they know for sure? As shocked as everyone but are calm heads not needed here?

Bloated bureaucracy and immigration I'd say made were the prime reasons for those who voted leave

I get the inefficient unaccountable bureaucracy argument. Us it possible we're being very smug on the other argument because our town's and city's demographics haven't been impacted to the same degree as areas north of London? I dunno

Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 24, 2016, 08:49:53 AM
Lads. A border? Yes or no? If so what'll it involve? Soldiers or 'officials'

Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 24, 2016, 08:49:53 AM
Lads. A border? Yes or no? If so what'll it involve? Soldiers or 'officials'

Quote from: Hound on June 24, 2016, 09:04:23 AM

Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 24, 2016, 08:49:53 AM
Lads. A border? Yes or no? If so what'll it involve? Soldiers or 'officials'

I think there'll be willingness on both sides to leave the border as is.
Common Travel Agreement will remain. So long as Ireland doesn't join Schengen, which we won't.

My guess is there'll be a bit more security at ferry terminals on both sides, to bring it in line with the airlines.

Quote from: doodaa on June 24, 2016, 09:12:10 AM

Quote from: Hound on June 24, 2016, 09:04:23 AM

Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 24, 2016, 08:49:53 AM
Lads. A border? Yes or no? If so what'll it involve? Soldiers or 'officials'

I think there'll be willingness on both sides to leave the border as is.
Common Travel Agreement will remain. So long as Ireland doesn't join Schengen, which we won't.

My guess is there'll be a bit more security at ferry terminals on both sides, to bring it in line with the airlines.

I wouldn't be so sure on that, a "hard" border between north and south would suit the DUP and their supporters down to the ground.

Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 24, 2016, 08:49:53 AM
Lads. A border? Yes or no? If so what'll it involve? Soldiers or 'officials'

Quote from: general_lee on June 24, 2016, 08:35:17 AM

Quote from: theskull1 on June 24, 2016, 08:31:08 AM

Quote from: general_lee on June 24, 2016, 08:20:28 AM
Sterling dropped 8.4% overnight when 1% is usually considered substantial.

Quote from: theskull1 on June 24, 2016, 08:17:21 AM
A lot of people running around yelling that the sky IS falling.

Yes
Trying to work out how much folk prophesying their own doom is actually bringing it about.

Well the top 100 companies in the UK have gone down in value by £180bn and it's not yet 9am. If anything it was the Leave campaign that was prophesying the doom!

QuoteSo if i was polish for example i could fly to Dublin then hop on a bus to belfast no bother or border control? would kind of defeat the purpose. i would say a border is inevidable

Quote from: johnneycool on June 24, 2016, 09:18:06 AM

Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 24, 2016, 08:49:53 AM
Lads. A border? Yes or no? If so what'll it involve? Soldiers or 'officials'

I'd laugh my balls off if the UK government decided that the only practical way to maintain a border would be at Stranraer, Cairnryan, Liverpool, Holyhead and the airports, that'd please Jim Allister!

As for the NHS, with this extra £350M per day, it'll be something else altogether   :o

Quote from: johnneycool on June 24, 2016, 09:18:06 AM

Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 24, 2016, 08:49:53 AM
Lads. A border? Yes or no? If so what'll it involve? Soldiers or 'officials'

I'd laugh my balls off if the UK government decided that the only practical way to maintain a border would be at Stranraer, Cairnryan, Liverpool, Holyhead and the airports, that'd please Jim Allister!

As for the NHS, with this extra £350M per day, it'll be something else altogether   :o

Quote from: muppet on June 24, 2016, 09:31:45 AM
The little boy in me gets excited by chaos and volatility. The rest of me tries to look for order.

The rest of me can wait today.

All Empires comes to an end, but this must be the first in history to vote for its own ending!

Borders, excise duties, trade agreements, will all probably become leverage in the exit negotiations and depending on who gets power in London, those talks could be very tough. Both sides might agree a quick solution for the 6 counties, as neither side will want to pay for it. But beyond that, expect threats of massive taxes on UK food exports etc., as part of the EU strategy to set an example to 'leavers'.

I agree with those who think this might be good for Ireland in the long run. We will be a 'friend' to Britain, the nearest large economy, still remain within the EU and be the only English speaking nation based in the EU for US companies. Once it settles down of course.

But in the meantime I will let the little boy in me enjoy the chaos.

Quote from: illdecide on June 24, 2016, 09:41:29 AM
I think the big thing to worry about is future jobs especially here in the North, we usually get shafted first when there are cuts. For me a vast majority of this was done for racist motives, people couldn't bare other Nationalities moving in beside them and getting jobs. As the DUP stated "This will put an end to emigration"

Might need to think of a nice we border town to move too (on the other side ;)). You want to hear the Protestants in work here this morning talking about going to Dublin to get an Irish Passport...lol

Quote from: themac_23 on June 24, 2016, 09:16:57 AM

Quote from: doodaa on June 24, 2016, 09:12:10 AM

Quote from: Hound on June 24, 2016, 09:04:23 AM

Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 24, 2016, 08:49:53 AM
Lads. A border? Yes or no? If so what'll it involve? Soldiers or 'officials'

I think there'll be willingness on both sides to leave the border as is.
Common Travel Agreement will remain. So long as Ireland doesn't join Schengen, which we won't.

My guess is there'll be a bit more security at ferry terminals on both sides, to bring it in line with the airlines.

I wouldn't be so sure on that, a "hard" border between north and south would suit the DUP and their supporters down to the ground.

So if i was polish for example i could fly to Dublin then hop on a bus to belfast no bother or border control? would kind of defeat the purpose. i would say a border is inevidable

Quote from: imtommygunn on June 24, 2016, 09:41:44 AM
Sf are already talking about it.

It's a result which may possibly suit them and definitely suits the snp.

Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 24, 2016, 10:01:49 AM
So the last time the UK chose a policy of splendid isolation with a conservative government in charge, remind me how that worked out again!!!

Quote from: Applesisapples on June 24, 2016, 10:06:33 AM
SF can posture all they like on a border poll, and the is all it is posturing. The fact seems to be at the moment a sizeable section of the formerly nationalist community have accepted the union, the fleg and gongs from the Queen. This has been reinforced by SF rolling over at every turn to DUP demands.

Quote from: NAG1 on June 24, 2016, 09:50:29 AM

Quote from: imtommygunn on June 24, 2016, 09:41:44 AM
Sf are already talking about it.

It's a result which may possibly suit them and definitely suits the snp.

Is this the reason why SF were conspicuous by the absence from the campaign trail? Not to their usual level of campaigning IMO?

Quote from: AZOffaly on June 24, 2016, 08:26:44 AM
The Republic is the only English speaking member of the EU now. I wonder will that have any bearing on US investment?

Quote from: No wides on June 24, 2016, 09:19:30 AM

Quote from: general_lee on June 24, 2016, 08:35:17 AM

Quote from: theskull1 on June 24, 2016, 08:31:08 AM

Quote from: general_lee on June 24, 2016, 08:20:28 AM
Sterling dropped 8.4% overnight when 1% is usually considered substantial.

Quote from: theskull1 on June 24, 2016, 08:17:21 AM
A lot of people running around yelling that the sky IS falling.

Yes
Trying to work out how much folk prophesying their own doom is actually bringing it about.

Well the top 100 companies in the UK have gone down in value by £180bn and it's not yet 9am. If anything it was the Leave campaign that was prophesying the doom!

Recovered from 8% down on the FTSE now 4% down, Japan, Europe and US stock markets all worse off today - these things will stabilize.  Don't panic!

Quote from: thejuice on June 24, 2016, 07:17:24 AM
Loving in England I can tell you the Leave voters were not that bothered by the economics. This referendum was about other things for the leave voters. the remain side only wanted to discuss economics while leave wanted to discuss other things.

As I've said before and alluded to in my last post, across the "west" left and right have diverged so far I think democracy is looking unviable, when the differences in choice are so stark and the margins quite narrow.

I don't know what solutions there are besides getting the pen out and start redrawing the maps. Well we could also do tyranny or war.

Quote from: mick999 on June 24, 2016, 10:40:09 AM

+100% spike in UK searches for "getting an Irish passport" after #Brexit vote

https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=irish%20passport&geo=GB&date=now%207-d&cmpt=q&tz=Etc%2FGMT%2B7

Quote from: Declan on June 24, 2016, 10:54:51 AM
I do kinda get it though... adhering to those shady backroom deals in Brussels would be like having an unelected head of state.

Quote from: Applesisapples on June 24, 2016, 10:06:33 AM
SF can posture all they like on a border poll, and the is all it is posturing. The fact seems to be at the moment a sizeable section of the formerly nationalist community have accepted the union, the fleg and gongs from the Queen. This has been reinforced by SF rolling over at every turn to DUP demands.

Quote from: imtommygunn on June 24, 2016, 10:16:23 AM

Quote from: NAG1 on June 24, 2016, 09:50:29 AM

Quote from: imtommygunn on June 24, 2016, 09:41:44 AM
Sf are already talking about it.

It's a result which may possibly suit them and definitely suits the snp.

Is this the reason why SF were conspicuous by the absence from the campaign trail? Not to their usual level of campaigning IMO?

Most likely i think.

Quote from: MoChara on June 24, 2016, 11:12:04 AM

Quote from: Applesisapples on June 24, 2016, 10:06:33 AM
SF can posture all they like on a border poll, and the is all it is posturing. The fact seems to be at the moment a sizeable section of the formerly nationalist community have accepted the union, the fleg and gongs from the Queen. This has been reinforced by SF rolling over at every turn to DUP demands.

As you say a sizable amount have accepted the British union and the trimmings it comes with because they believe they are better off financially within it, I don't think they've coem round to a British Identity though, the push on a Northern Irish Identity is probably helping it head that way though.

This is a fickle and self serving part of the population though, if the financial allure isn't with Britain then they aren't either

Quote from: imtommygunn on June 24, 2016, 11:15:45 AM
Why did the Jo Cox murder change your mind?

Quote from: ludermor on June 24, 2016, 10:09:07 AM
Have to say im not surprised the leave side have carried through, i said on this thread about a month ago the majority i met day to day were voting leave and yesterday was like a bank holiday with people trying to get of London to vote in their home constituencies all over England .  The remain side were way too complacent and Labour have a lot to answer for hiding Corbyn away and not putting some of their other leaders on the front line until it was way too late.

Quote from: Rossfan on June 24, 2016, 11:15:46 AM
Presumably the Loyalist "Brigadiers" will have to raise their extortion rates to make up for the loss of the EU " Community" funding ;)
What will happen to all them big Unionist farmers when the CAP cheques stop?
Meanwhile the quicker the Scots take their courage in their hands and go Independent the better.