Not sure whether I should have put this in the GAA or Hurling section.
Anyone any thoughts on the Defence Forces/UN service tributes that were on display at Headquarters today?
Personally found it disgraceful myself. As bad as anything at the Superbowl etc.
Quote from: gallsman on July 28, 2018, 10:20:21 PM
Not sure whether I should have put this in the GAA or Hurling section.
Anyone any thoughts on the Defence Forces/UN service tributes that were on display at Headquarters today?
Personally found it disgraceful myself. As bad as anything at the Superbowl etc.
I didn't see it, but I highly doubt it was as bad as the Superbowl - how could it be - at least the Irish Army don't actually go to fight wars, they go to keep peace, which we can at least be thankful for.
But quite clearly sporting events are not the place for military demonstrations or tributes of any sort.
The US fetishising of the military is downright weird, and sadly the Brits are getting in on the act too now.
That sort of stuff genuinely creeps me out - it's outright propaganda and manufacturing of consent for war and it influences public discourse towards unhealthy and creepy nationalism.
Of course it was nowhere near as bad as the Superbowl or even a rugby match at Twickenham, that was hyperbole. No green, white and orange flyovers like
Don't think sporting venues are the place for that sort of thing and I'm very surprised the GAA have rowed in with it.
I see no issue honouring a neutral army.
Not the place for it.
No offence to all those who participated and lost their lives over the years but more appropriate to have a State remembrance ceremony.
Didn't see it. Not the right place for that sort of thing.
Same goes for the 1916 thing at Croke Park in 2016.
Agreed.
Bloody Sunday commemoration was appropriate as it happened in Croke Park.
Are we being softened up for Pesco, and is this just a preliminary step, and no better avenue of approach than via the GAA?
Quote from: Rossfan on July 29, 2018, 12:00:37 AM
Agreed.
Bloody Sunday commemoration was appropriate as it happened in Croke Park.
Yes but the Easter Rising didn't.
Exactly.
That's why I (for once😀) agreed with ya
Quote from: Rossfan on July 29, 2018, 12:54:01 AM
Exactly.
That's why I (for once😀) agreed with ya
Fair do's :P
I found this very uncomfortable today in Croke Park, I don't think this militaristic nonsense becomes the association. Not the time nor the place for it in my opinion.
Quote from: BennyCake on July 29, 2018, 12:37:55 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 29, 2018, 12:00:37 AM
Agreed.
Bloody Sunday commemoration was appropriate as it happened in Croke Park.
Yes but the Easter Rising didn't.
I think giving the links between the GAA, the Gaelic League, the rising and everything that was going on in the era I think it was a justified commemoration
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on July 29, 2018, 12:24:57 AM
Are we being softened up for Pesco, and is this just a preliminary step, and no better avenue of approach than via the GAA?
That'd be my thinking too. And with Varadkar only too happy to please his EU masters it sadly looks like our army will become pawns in their game.
Interesting, probably many southern folk would never really have seen army and military formations in their lifetime. In the North we just got on with life, but it was there everyday. You get used to it lads, but understand how uncomfortable it must feel.
Quote from: Owenmoresider on July 29, 2018, 04:12:53 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on July 29, 2018, 12:24:57 AM
Are we being softened up for Pesco, and is this just a preliminary step, and no better avenue of approach than via the GAA?
That'd be my thinking too. And with Varadkar only too happy to please his EU masters it sadly looks like our army will become pawns in their game.
Varadkar sucking up to the EU is akin to the DUP sucking up to the British government.
Spineless w**ks, all of them.
Quote from: BennyCake on July 29, 2018, 04:40:21 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on July 29, 2018, 04:12:53 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on July 29, 2018, 12:24:57 AM
Are we being softened up for Pesco, and is this just a preliminary step, and no better avenue of approach than via the GAA?
That'd be my thinking too. And with Varadkar only too happy to please his EU masters it sadly looks like our army will become pawns in their game.
Varadkar sucking up to the EU is akin to the DUP sucking up to the British government.
Spineless w**ks, all of them.
The taxpayer would not reward any government for actually funding our own defence. We can't free ride on the UK and US forever. Pesco is the most tolerable option. Calling it an EU army and throwing out the conscription word, like a few have been doing, does not help sensible debate.
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on July 29, 2018, 01:15:08 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 29, 2018, 12:37:55 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 29, 2018, 12:00:37 AM
Agreed.
Bloody Sunday commemoration was appropriate as it happened in Croke Park.
Yes but the Easter Rising didn't.
I think giving the links between the GAA, the Gaelic League, the rising and everything that was going on in the era I think it was a justified commemoration
If the Rising commemoration in Croke Park was justified, you could make an argument also for including Narrow Water or Loughgall.
Quote from: BennyCake on July 29, 2018, 05:02:01 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on July 29, 2018, 01:15:08 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 29, 2018, 12:37:55 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 29, 2018, 12:00:37 AM
Agreed.
Bloody Sunday commemoration was appropriate as it happened in Croke Park.
Yes but the Easter Rising didn't.
I think giving the links between the GAA, the Gaelic League, the rising and everything that was going on in the era I think it was a justified commemoration
If the Rising commemoration in Croke Park was justified, you could make an argument also for including Narrow Water or Loughgall.
Completely different things though, I'm not getting into it now though
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on July 29, 2018, 05:12:06 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 29, 2018, 05:02:01 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on July 29, 2018, 01:15:08 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 29, 2018, 12:37:55 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 29, 2018, 12:00:37 AM
Agreed.
Bloody Sunday commemoration was appropriate as it happened in Croke Park.
Yes but the Easter Rising didn't.
I think giving the links between the GAA, the Gaelic League, the rising and everything that was going on in the era I think it was a justified commemoration
If the Rising commemoration in Croke Park was justified, you could make an argument also for including Narrow Water or Loughgall.
Completely different things though, I'm not getting into it now though
Its the same, whether you like to admit it or not.
Quote from: BennyCake on July 29, 2018, 05:19:15 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on July 29, 2018, 05:12:06 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 29, 2018, 05:02:01 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on July 29, 2018, 01:15:08 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 29, 2018, 12:37:55 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 29, 2018, 12:00:37 AM
Agreed.
Bloody Sunday commemoration was appropriate as it happened in Croke Park.
Yes but the Easter Rising didn't.
I think giving the links between the GAA, the Gaelic League, the rising and everything that was going on in the era I think it was a justified commemoration
If the Rising commemoration in Croke Park was justified, you could make an argument also for including Narrow Water or Loughgall.
Completely different things though, I'm not getting into it now though
Its the same, whether you like to admit it or not.
How is it the same? Completely different eras, the GAA itself basically took part in the rising
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on July 29, 2018, 05:24:39 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 29, 2018, 05:19:15 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on July 29, 2018, 05:12:06 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 29, 2018, 05:02:01 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on July 29, 2018, 01:15:08 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 29, 2018, 12:37:55 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 29, 2018, 12:00:37 AM
Agreed.
Bloody Sunday commemoration was appropriate as it happened in Croke Park.
Yes but the Easter Rising didn't.
I think giving the links between the GAA, the Gaelic League, the rising and everything that was going on in the era I think it was a justified commemoration
If the Rising commemoration in Croke Park was justified, you could make an argument also for including Narrow Water or Loughgall.
Completely different things though, I'm not getting into it now though
Its the same, whether you like to admit it or not.
How is it the same? Completely different eras, the GAA itself basically took part in the rising
People love to say it's a different era but they can't explain how.
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 29, 2018, 06:05:39 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on July 29, 2018, 05:24:39 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 29, 2018, 05:19:15 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on July 29, 2018, 05:12:06 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 29, 2018, 05:02:01 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on July 29, 2018, 01:15:08 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 29, 2018, 12:37:55 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 29, 2018, 12:00:37 AM
Agreed.
Bloody Sunday commemoration was appropriate as it happened in Croke Park.
Yes but the Easter Rising didn't.
I think giving the links between the GAA, the Gaelic League, the rising and everything that was going on in the era I think it was a justified commemoration
If the Rising commemoration in Croke Park was justified, you could make an argument also for including Narrow Water or Loughgall.
Completely different things though, I'm not getting into it now though
Its the same, whether you like to admit it or not.
How is it the same? Completely different eras, the GAA itself basically took part in the rising
People love to say it's a different era but they can't explain how.
Because they were literally different eras, I don't know what needs explaining
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on July 29, 2018, 06:39:53 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 29, 2018, 06:05:39 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on July 29, 2018, 05:24:39 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 29, 2018, 05:19:15 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on July 29, 2018, 05:12:06 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 29, 2018, 05:02:01 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on July 29, 2018, 01:15:08 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 29, 2018, 12:37:55 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 29, 2018, 12:00:37 AM
Agreed.
Bloody Sunday commemoration was appropriate as it happened in Croke Park.
Yes but the Easter Rising didn't.
I think giving the links between the GAA, the Gaelic League, the rising and everything that was going on in the era I think it was a justified commemoration
If the Rising commemoration in Croke Park was justified, you could make an argument also for including Narrow Water or Loughgall.
Completely different things though, I'm not getting into it now though
Its the same, whether you like to admit it or not.
How is it the same? Completely different eras, the GAA itself basically took part in the rising
People love to say it's a different era but they can't explain how.
Because they were literally different eras, I don't know what needs explaining
Different eras yes, but all those events were ultimately aimed at one thing - to drive the British from Ireland. Or is there a difference because N Water/Loughgall took place in the North?
Quote from: BennyCake on July 29, 2018, 07:49:32 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on July 29, 2018, 06:39:53 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 29, 2018, 06:05:39 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on July 29, 2018, 05:24:39 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 29, 2018, 05:19:15 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on July 29, 2018, 05:12:06 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 29, 2018, 05:02:01 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on July 29, 2018, 01:15:08 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 29, 2018, 12:37:55 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 29, 2018, 12:00:37 AM
Agreed.
Bloody Sunday commemoration was appropriate as it happened in Croke Park.
Yes but the Easter Rising didn't.
I think giving the links between the GAA, the Gaelic League, the rising and everything that was going on in the era I think it was a justified commemoration
If the Rising commemoration in Croke Park was justified, you could make an argument also for including Narrow Water or Loughgall.
Completely different things though, I'm not getting into it now though
Its the same, whether you like to admit it or not.
How is it the same? Completely different eras, the GAA itself basically took part in the rising
People love to say it's a different era but they can't explain how.
Because they were literally different eras, I don't know what needs explaining
Different eras yes, but all those events were ultimately aimed at one thing - to drive the British from Ireland. Or is there a difference because N Water/Loughgall took place in the North?
Different people for one, different tactics etc but the most important thing here is the GAA was deeply involved in the rising and events of the time, making it part of their history and something they can rightfully commemorate
Stop trying to argue logic with Shinners. It's never going to work.
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on July 29, 2018, 07:52:03 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 29, 2018, 07:49:32 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on July 29, 2018, 06:39:53 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 29, 2018, 06:05:39 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on July 29, 2018, 05:24:39 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 29, 2018, 05:19:15 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on July 29, 2018, 05:12:06 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 29, 2018, 05:02:01 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on July 29, 2018, 01:15:08 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 29, 2018, 12:37:55 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 29, 2018, 12:00:37 AM
Agreed.
Bloody Sunday commemoration was appropriate as it happened in Croke Park.
Yes but the Easter Rising didn't.
I think giving the links between the GAA, the Gaelic League, the rising and everything that was going on in the era I think it was a justified commemoration
If the Rising commemoration in Croke Park was justified, you could make an argument also for including Narrow Water or Loughgall.
Completely different things though, I'm not getting into it now though
Its the same, whether you like to admit it or not.
How is it the same? Completely different eras, the GAA itself basically took part in the rising
People love to say it's a different era but they can't explain how.
Because they were literally different eras, I don't know what needs explaining
Different eras yes, but all those events were ultimately aimed at one thing - to drive the British from Ireland. Or is there a difference because N Water/Loughgall took place in the North?
Different people for one, different tactics etc but the most important thing here is the GAA was deeply involved in the rising and events of the time, making it part of their history and something they can rightfully commemorate
Maybe so, but mixing sport with a violent uprising shouldn't be done. Links may have been there in the past, but no more. And in the current climate, that shouldn't be part of GAA activities. I'd be fairly sure a lot of those who carried out attacks against the security forces in the North were GAA members, fans or perhaps players.
Quote from: Syferus on July 29, 2018, 10:53:01 PM
Stop trying to argue logic with Shinners. It's never going to work.
I'm no Shinner.
Quote from: Syferus on July 29, 2018, 10:53:01 PM
Stop trying to argue logic with Shinners. It's never going to work.
Because your Blueshirtery is simply illogical?
In what era did the Gaa decide it was no longer a vehicle for Irish nationalism and a United Ireland syf?
When Séamus Quaid was murdered by a Provo?
#strengthenthenation
Pathetic stuff altogether.
Its funny to me that people think operating under the U.N banner is being neutral.
They are normalising the military with exercises like this for the purposes of the European Army - PESCO. In particularly important to do so in countries like Ireland who would I imagine being against Irish Men and Women being sent to fight other nations wars.
Quote from: gallsman on July 28, 2018, 10:20:21 PM
Anyone any thoughts on the Defence Forces/UN service tributes that were on display at Headquarters today?
Its a start on the slippery slope that leads to this:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ee/Olympictorche-Berlin.jpg)
Example - the yanks.
Becoming more and more like a right wing, ultra-nationalist, police state by the year.
Massive military spending? Check.
No criticism of militaristic attitudes allowed? Check.
Erosion of civil rights? Check.
Restriction in freedom of press? Check.
The public are fed more propaganda lies than truths? Check.
Quote from: Owenmoresider on July 29, 2018, 04:12:53 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on July 29, 2018, 12:24:57 AM
Are we being softened up for Pesco, and is this just a preliminary step, and no better avenue of approach than via the GAA?
That'd be my thinking too. And with Varadkar only too happy to please his EU masters it sadly looks like our army will become pawns in their game.
Never thought of it that way. Both of you could be correct.
I was no more impressed with the army display than I am with the flying of Palestinian flags at games.
The GAA is about the promotion of our national games & allowing others to piggyback is not something I like.
Quote from: inthrough on July 31, 2018, 12:46:45 PM
I was no more impressed with the army display than I am with the flying of Palestinian flags at games.
The GAA is about the promotion of our national games & allowing others to piggyback is not something I like.
Agree on both.
Rainbow coloured shirts/gloves also should have no place either.
Quote from: gallsman on July 30, 2018, 04:01:52 AM
#strengthenthenation
Pathetic stuff altogether.
Googled this to see what it was.
Sure this is just mainly Irish DFs force stuff whats so pathetic about it?
Just to really get peoples goats up.
How many GAA members were involved in the Easter Rising. I always thought it was concentrated in Dublin and was quite shambolic in its organisation. Events there after granted had more effect. I don't think it's true that 1000's of GAA members from across the country took place.
Commemorating members involved in the PIRA's campaign in NI isn't something I'd like to associate with. Only a very small minority were involved in violence in NI. To paint it as loads of GAA members were in the PIRA isn't accurate. Therefore having huge commemorations in GAA grounds, I think, is inappropriate.
Quote from: trailer on July 31, 2018, 04:31:34 PM
Just to really get peoples goats up.
How many GAA members were involved in the Easter Rising. I always thought it was concentrated in Dublin and was quite shambolic in its organisation. Events there after granted had more effect. I don't think it's true that 1000's of GAA members from across the country took place.
Commemorating members involved in the PIRA's campaign in NI isn't something I'd like to associate with. Only a very small minority were involved in violence in NI. To paint it as loads of GAA members were in the PIRA isn't accurate. Therefore having huge commemorations in GAA grounds, I think, is inappropriate.
Perhaps the question should be if "loads" of volunteers were in the GAA
A good gauge might be to compare percentage of volunteers to the general populace v % of volunteers to GAA involvement.
Quote from: omaghjoe on July 31, 2018, 04:22:14 PM
Quote from: gallsman on July 30, 2018, 04:01:52 AM
#strengthenthenation
Pathetic stuff altogether.
Googled this to see what it was.
Sure this is just mainly Irish DFs force stuff whats so pathetic about it?
It's jingoistic bollocks, that's what's pathetic.
Quote from: omaghjoe on July 31, 2018, 04:22:14 PM
Quote from: gallsman on July 30, 2018, 04:01:52 AM
#strengthenthenation
Pathetic stuff altogether.
Googled this to see what it was.
Sure this is just mainly Irish DFs force stuff whats so pathetic about it?
Googled it also "commemorating this year's 60th Anniversary of Irish involvement in Peacekeeping" not sure what so pathetic about that either?
Quote from: Cunny Funt on July 31, 2018, 05:58:14 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on July 31, 2018, 04:22:14 PM
Quote from: gallsman on July 30, 2018, 04:01:52 AM
#strengthenthenation
Pathetic stuff altogether.
Googled this to see what it was.
Sure this is just mainly Irish DFs force stuff whats so pathetic about it?
Googled it also "commemorating this year's 60th Anniversary of Irish involvement in Peacekeeping" not sure what so pathetic about that either?
What's it got to do with the GAA?
What's peacekeeping got to do with strengthening the nation?
Meaningless gibberish to stir nationalistic emotion in morons.
Quote from: gallsman on July 31, 2018, 10:35:56 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on July 31, 2018, 05:58:14 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on July 31, 2018, 04:22:14 PM
Quote from: gallsman on July 30, 2018, 04:01:52 AM
#strengthenthenation
Pathetic stuff altogether.
Googled this to see what it was.
Sure this is just mainly Irish DFs force stuff whats so pathetic about it?
Googled it also "commemorating this year's 60th Anniversary of Irish involvement in Peacekeeping" not sure what so pathetic about that either?
What's it got to do with the GAA?
What's peacekeeping got to do with strengthening the nation?
Meaningless gibberish to stir nationalistic emotion in morons.
You brought that hastag into this thread and started bashing it when it had nothing in particular to do with the commemoration at Croke Park.
Peacekeeping means that Ireland is an active member of the UN where all sovereign nations recognize each other. Enhanced reputation there advances diplomatic weight and hence strengthens sovereignity
Here is what it's like in the US now.
- TV newsreaders, and sports commentators, refer to American troops as "our troops." War is thus reported on like an international football match where the viewer is left in no doubt as to which side he is supposed to support.
- Professional sporting events have become militarized, with air force flyovers and military personnel openly marching on the field in uniform, complete with a million flags or one big flag the size of the field. The crowd is expected to applaud seriously and reverendly.
- Some people think a protest held during the playing of the national anthem is "disrespectful to the troops," implying that the national anthem is for the military only and not for all citizens.
- If you are a public figure and you're introduced to a member of the military, the next words out of your mouth need to be "thank you for your service," delivered with a serious face and in a serious tone. Failure to do it properly (unless you're a Republican and the soldier is gay) will have you torn apart by right wing media.
- If you're at a public event and an announcement comes over the PA saying "all current or former members of our military, please stand up," you're supposed to clap and applaud the people who stand up, preferably nodding your head with a big serious look on your face.
- Any criticism of foreign policy that you disagree with, particularly one that involves active combat troops, is denounced as being "disrespectful to the troops."
- Soldiers are referred to in advertising campaigns as "heroes," hence fundraising campaigns have names like "help for heroes" and what have you. The possibility that an American serviceman did anything wrong, broke any rules, or committed any war crimes is not even considered. If they wear a uniform, they're a hero, and anyone who says otherwise is denounced as "unpatriotic."
- Service people are referred to as "brave men and women." It makes it sound more poetic when you list both genders, you see.
- If you have a bumper sticker on your car saying "support our troops," that is completely normal.
I remember when I lived in England and chatted to people about acquaintances they had in the army. It wasn't considered a very prestigious occupation and few people that I knew seemed to have a high opinion of anyone just because they joined the service. A very different culture from the American worship of
service people brave men and women in uniform.
Does Ireland really want to go the American way and adopt a fetishization of state-funded violence at all levels of culture?
Quote from: omaghjoe on August 01, 2018, 12:00:53 AM
Quote from: gallsman on July 31, 2018, 10:35:56 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on July 31, 2018, 05:58:14 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on July 31, 2018, 04:22:14 PM
Quote from: gallsman on July 30, 2018, 04:01:52 AM
#strengthenthenation
Pathetic stuff altogether.
Googled this to see what it was.
Sure this is just mainly Irish DFs force stuff whats so pathetic about it?
Googled it also "commemorating this year's 60th Anniversary of Irish involvement in Peacekeeping" not sure what so pathetic about that either?
What's it got to do with the GAA?
What's peacekeeping got to do with strengthening the nation?
Meaningless gibberish to stir nationalistic emotion in morons.
You brought that hastag into this thread and started bashing it when it had nothing in particular to do with the commemoration at Croke Park.
Peacekeeping means that Ireland is an active member of the UN where all sovereign nations recognize each other. Enhanced reputation there advances diplomatic weight and hence strengthens sovereignity
Did SFA for us when the bondholders said NEI
Quote from: gallsman on July 31, 2018, 10:35:56 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on July 31, 2018, 05:58:14 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on July 31, 2018, 04:22:14 PM
Quote from: gallsman on July 30, 2018, 04:01:52 AM
#strengthenthenation
Pathetic stuff altogether.
Googled this to see what it was.
Sure this is just mainly Irish DFs force stuff whats so pathetic about it?
Googled it also "commemorating this year's 60th Anniversary of Irish involvement in Peacekeeping" not sure what so pathetic about that either?
What's it got to do with the GAA?
What's peacekeeping got to do with strengthening the nation?
Meaningless gibberish to stir nationalistic emotion in morons.
Plenty of GAA past and present players have worked in the Army and i'm sure a few have done overseas peacekeeping duty also. Not sure how its strengthening the nation but maybe its to do with an army peacekeeping than invading and terrorizing countries.
I don't have a problem with peacekeeping. It's a good way of generating goodwill internationally. Diplomacy has value in this world, no matter what some people seem to think.
I think I remember reading somewhere* that peacekeepers tend to come disproportionately from developing countries. Apparently it earns a bit of money for them. Certain countries with big military machines are less inclined to send peacekeepers.
*Here it is: Soldiers From Poor Countries Have Become the World's Peacekeepers (http://time.com/3272718/un-undof-peacekeeping-golan-heights-terrorism/)
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 01, 2018, 01:10:23 AM
Quote from: gallsman on July 31, 2018, 10:35:56 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on July 31, 2018, 05:58:14 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on July 31, 2018, 04:22:14 PM
Quote from: gallsman on July 30, 2018, 04:01:52 AM
#strengthenthenation
Pathetic stuff altogether.
Googled this to see what it was.
Sure this is just mainly Irish DFs force stuff whats so pathetic about it?
Googled it also "commemorating this year's 60th Anniversary of Irish involvement in Peacekeeping" not sure what so pathetic about that either?
What's it got to do with the GAA?
What's peacekeeping got to do with strengthening the nation?
Meaningless gibberish to stir nationalistic emotion in morons.
Plenty of GAA past and present players have worked in the Army and i'm sure a few have done overseas peacekeeping duty also. Not sure how its strengthening the nation but maybe its to do with an army peacekeeping than invading and terrorizing countries.
Ffs, is that really your arguement?! Plenty of GAA men have been bankers in their time and don't see the IBOA getting lauded at Croke Park, unfurling their banners with their corny hashtags.
See also: doctors, vets, engineers, accountants, plumbers, electricians, farmers, pilots, window cleaners, postmen etc etc etc
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on July 29, 2018, 07:52:03 PM
... but the most important thing here is the GAA was deeply involved in the rising and events of the time, making it part of their history and something they can rightfully commemorate
Really?
War effort
In the very weeks before the Rising, indeed, a deputation of leading GAA officials travelled to London where, accompanied by John Redmond, they met with the British chancellor of the exchequer to press their case for exemption from an entertainment tax that had been introduced to help fund the ongoing war effort.
These were not the actions of ideologues, but of pragmatists and men concerned, for the most part, with the fortunes of their games and those who played them.
A similar pragmatism is discernible in the GAA's public statements in the immediate aftermath of the Rising. Even as popular sentiment began to shift in response to the excesses of British policy in suppressing the insurrection, the GAA was adamant in its denials that its aims and objects were anything other than sporting. To suggest otherwise, as some had done before the official commission set up to investigate the rebellion, was, the association insisted, both "untrue" and "unjust".
Above all else, what governed GAA policy throughout 1916 was the service of its sports rather than separatist politics.https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaa-s-role-in-1916-rising-separating-fact-from-fiction-1.2620996 (https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaa-s-role-in-1916-rising-separating-fact-from-fiction-1.2620996)
"And if. You know. Your History. It's enough to make your Heart go Woooooaaaaaah" ;)
And while I'm here*, I would point out that FAR more GAA men fought for the British Army in WWI than joined in the Easter Rising.
For example:
"Clare historian Keir McNamara believes most young men who joined [the British Army] did so for similar reasons. Precise figures are difficult to establish, but he estimates that up [to] 3,000 men left directly from Clare for the war – and probably twice that if the diaspora is included. They tended to be from rural rather than agrarian backgrounds. Some may have been swayed by John Redmond's rhetoric. And all would probably have been on the front for the 1916 Rising, after which the GAA's nationalist credentials became more overt."
More here: https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/from-gaelic-fields-to-poppy-fields-the-gaa-s-hidden-part-in-the-great-war-1.3476517 (https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/from-gaelic-fields-to-poppy-fields-the-gaa-s-hidden-part-in-the-great-war-1.3476517)
* - Sorry to disappoint folks, but I only chanced upon this debate after googling something else and following some random links. So this is just (ahem) a flying column from me. ;)
Quote from: gallsman on August 01, 2018, 02:06:29 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 01, 2018, 01:10:23 AM
Quote from: gallsman on July 31, 2018, 10:35:56 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on July 31, 2018, 05:58:14 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on July 31, 2018, 04:22:14 PM
Quote from: gallsman on July 30, 2018, 04:01:52 AM
#strengthenthenation
Pathetic stuff altogether.
Googled this to see what it was.
Sure this is just mainly Irish DFs force stuff whats so pathetic about it?
Googled it also "commemorating this year's 60th Anniversary of Irish involvement in Peacekeeping" not sure what so pathetic about that either?
What's it got to do with the GAA?
What's peacekeeping got to do with strengthening the nation?
Meaningless gibberish to stir nationalistic emotion in morons.
Plenty of GAA past and present players have worked in the Army and i'm sure a few have done overseas peacekeeping duty also. Not sure how its strengthening the nation but maybe its to do with an army peacekeeping than invading and terrorizing countries.
Ffs, is that really your arguement?! Plenty of GAA men have been bankers in their time and don't see the IBOA getting lauded at Croke Park, unfurling their banners with their corny hashtags.
See also: doctors, vets, engineers, accountants, plumbers, electricians, farmers, pilots, window cleaners, postmen etc etc etc
I have given my thoughts isn't that what you asked for in the opening post of this thread. Representing your nation in the Army is just a slightly different job than any of those you named. Disgraceful and pathetic are the type of words you have thrown out in this thread maybe you can provide a stronger argument for such comments.
Quote from: gallsman on August 01, 2018, 02:06:29 AM
Ffs, is that really your arguement?! Plenty of GAA men have been bankers in their time and don't see the IBOA getting lauded at Croke Park, unfurling their banners with their corny hashtags.
That's because the IBOA is a trade union.
Croke Park has seen many bank banners, flags and ribbons, even on our most cherished cups.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 30, 2018, 02:22:06 PM
Its a start on the slippery slope that leads to this:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ee/Olympictorche-Berlin.jpg)
Example - the yanks.
Becoming more and more like a right wing, ultra-nationalist, police state by the year.
Massive military spending? Check.
No criticism of militaristic attitudes allowed? Check.
Erosion of civil rights? Check.
Restriction in freedom of press? Check.
The public are fed more propaganda lies than truths? Check.
Gas how you complain of a "right wing, ultra-nationalist, police state" by posting a picture of the ultimate left wing, ultra-nationalist, police state.
The current US President is trying to cut its massive military spending (particularly on NATO) so no doubt you welcome that.
A lot of lads disrespecting the troops here.
Which is treason.
Great to see Evil Genius back, briefly
Quote from: Jinxy on August 01, 2018, 01:17:18 PM
A lot of lads disrespecting the troops here.
Which is treason.
;D ;D :D
Quote from: five points on August 01, 2018, 12:03:40 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 30, 2018, 02:22:06 PM
Its a start on the slippery slope that leads to this:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ee/Olympictorche-Berlin.jpg)
Example - the yanks.
Becoming more and more like a right wing, ultra-nationalist, police state by the year.
Massive military spending? Check.
No criticism of militaristic attitudes allowed? Check.
Erosion of civil rights? Check.
Restriction in freedom of press? Check.
The public are fed more propaganda lies than truths? Check.
Gas how you complain of a "right wing, ultra-nationalist, police state" by posting a picture of the ultimate left wing, ultra-nationalist, police state.
The current US President is trying to cut its massive military spending (particularly on NATO) so no doubt you welcome that.
Heh? Am I picking this up wrong or are you saying the Nazis were left wing??? Every day's a school day on here!!!
The Germans never referred themselves as "Nazis". This was a derogatory term put on them for propaganda purposes. They were National Socialists.
This is pure Godwins law nonsense, just because this happened in the 30's does not mean it happens everytime there is a military display at a sporting event.
Wether or not there should be a military displays at Croke Park is a completely independent matter from 30s Germany.
Personally one offs like this I dont think they do a lot of harm tho at American sporting events that carryon is eye rolling stuff for me (but its usually more interesting than the sports). Its their way of doing things so its just something you put up with in another country, the huge gap under toilet cubicles effects and annoys me far more if Im honest!
Ireland's sovereignty is protected mostly by NATO and the UN and no matter how much the military spending it could never use its military as an independent diplomatic tool like larger countries do. So in effect it doesn't really need a serious military.
In saying that however hiding behind a neutral country banner is rather naive as Ireland actually does benefit from other countries military.
Quote from: omaghjoe on July 31, 2018, 04:37:11 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 31, 2018, 04:31:34 PM
Just to really get peoples goats up.
How many GAA members were involved in the Easter Rising. I always thought it was concentrated in Dublin and was quite shambolic in its organisation. Events there after granted had more effect. I don't think it's true that 1000's of GAA members from across the country took place.
Commemorating members involved in the PIRA's campaign in NI isn't something I'd like to associate with. Only a very small minority were involved in violence in NI. To paint it as loads of GAA members were in the PIRA isn't accurate. Therefore having huge commemorations in GAA grounds, I think, is inappropriate.
Perhaps the question should be if "loads" of volunteers were in the GAA
A good gauge might be to compare percentage of volunteers to the general populace v % of volunteers to GAA involvement.
They'd be interesting figures if they were available.
Quote from: trailer on August 01, 2018, 05:03:13 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on July 31, 2018, 04:37:11 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 31, 2018, 04:31:34 PM
Just to really get peoples goats up.
How many GAA members were involved in the Easter Rising. I always thought it was concentrated in Dublin and was quite shambolic in its organisation. Events there after granted had more effect. I don't think it's true that 1000's of GAA members from across the country took place.
Commemorating members involved in the PIRA's campaign in NI isn't something I'd like to associate with. Only a very small minority were involved in violence in NI. To paint it as loads of GAA members were in the PIRA isn't accurate. Therefore having huge commemorations in GAA grounds, I think, is inappropriate.
Perhaps the question should be if "loads" of volunteers were in the GAA
A good gauge might be to compare percentage of volunteers to the general populace v % of volunteers to GAA involvement.
They'd be interesting figures if they were available.
Storm in a teacup here. Fake news. There have been loads of high profile GAA players with army backgrounds, a 1-off won't kill anyone.
Quote from: omaghjoe on August 01, 2018, 05:00:21 PMIreland's sovereignty is protected mostly by NATO and the UN
Ah jaysus, I'm getting sucked in again, I told myself I shouldn't, but I am....
Anyhow, I think you're overlooking (deliberately?) what is effectively the primary component in the military preservation of the Republic's sovereignty, namely "The Hated Brits" ;)
Royal Air Force asked to defend IrelandBritish combat aircraft will 'shoot down aircraft over Ireland if they are hijacked by terrorists', according to local media.
According to the Irish Examiner, "five well-placed sources in Ireland and one in Britain have pointed to the agreement being in place, with a number saying the Defence Forces was not involved in negotiating it, despite the RAF asking for its inclusion."
Ireland lacks aircraft that can climb high enough or go fast enough to intercept Russian aircraft which came close to Irish airspace on a couple of occasions in 2015, being driven away by British jets.
It is understood that Civil servants from the Irish Department of Defence and Department of Foreign Affairs with the Irish Aviation Authority (IAA) entered into a bilateral agreement with British counterparts: the RAF, the Civil Aviation Authority, the Ministry of Defence, and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office.
The agreement reportedly permits the British military to conduct armed operations over Ireland in the event of a terrorist-attack, real or suspected.https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/royal-air-force-asked-defend-ireland/ (https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/royal-air-force-asked-defend-ireland/)
More here: https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/raf-tornado-jets-could-shoot-down-hijacked-planes-in-irish-airspace-414646.html (https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/raf-tornado-jets-could-shoot-down-hijacked-planes-in-irish-airspace-414646.html)
Quote from: Keyser soze on August 01, 2018, 03:43:31 PM
Heh? Am I picking this up wrong or are you saying the Nazis were left wing??? Every day's a school day on here!!!
Yep, if they have the word socialist in their name and espouse big-state authoritarianism, it should be a giveaway. :)
Quote from: trailer on August 01, 2018, 05:03:13 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on July 31, 2018, 04:37:11 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 31, 2018, 04:31:34 PM
Just to really get peoples goats up.
How many GAA members were involved in the Easter Rising. I always thought it was concentrated in Dublin and was quite shambolic in its organisation. Events there after granted had more effect. I don't think it's true that 1000's of GAA members from across the country took place.
Commemorating members involved in the PIRA's campaign in NI isn't something I'd like to associate with. Only a very small minority were involved in violence in NI. To paint it as loads of GAA members were in the PIRA isn't accurate. Therefore having huge commemorations in GAA grounds, I think, is inappropriate.
Perhaps the question should be if "loads" of volunteers were in the GAA
A good gauge might be to compare percentage of volunteers to the general populace v % of volunteers to GAA involvement.
They'd be interesting figures if they were available.
It is estimated that there were approximately 2,500 Republican volunteers who actively participated in the Easter Rising:
http://ireland-calling.com/lifestyle/participants-in-easter-rising-1916/ (http://ireland-calling.com/lifestyle/participants-in-easter-rising-1916/)
It should not be surprising if it were proven that a significant number of these were also in the GAA.
However, over 200,000 Irishmen volunteered to fight in WWI. And even discounting the proportion of those who were Unionists from Ulster (a minority of the 200k, if a sizeable one), it is inconceivable that a significant number of these weren't also GAA members. Indeed, from simple mathematics, it is possible that as many as 50 x times the number of GAA members fought in the World War as in The Rising.
Of course, subsequent events meant that such a truth was unwelcome in many quarters of Irish Nationalism and the GAA etc, and so history was largely re-written to suit.
But with the passage of time, the "certainties" of the past are being revisited from the objectivity of distance, and the record is beginning to be updated.
I quoted this article earlier, but repeat it for the benefit of those who did not read it first time - it's interesting stuff (imo):
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/from-gaelic-fields-to-poppy-fields-the-gaa-s-hidden-part-in-the-great-war-1.3476517 (https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/from-gaelic-fields-to-poppy-fields-the-gaa-s-hidden-part-in-the-great-war-1.3476517)
Quote from: five points on August 01, 2018, 05:55:13 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on August 01, 2018, 03:43:31 PM
Heh? Am I picking this up wrong or are you saying the Nazis were left wing??? Every day's a school day on here!!!
Yep, if they have the word socialist in their name and espouse big-state authoritarianism, it should be a giveaway. :)
Sorry, but you're talking
nonsense.
Briefly, when Hitler was demobbed after 1918, he drifted around aimlessly looking for some purpose after the army. German politics was in a state of absolute chaos around then with literally dozens (if not more) of small parties from right across the political spectrum all jostling to establish an influence. In particular, the Bolshviks and Communists were prominent, what with the success of the Russian Revolution in 1917, leading to the inevitable backlash from right wing parties.
Hitler happened to latch onto the tiny German Workers' Party ("DAP") in 1919, probably because its leader was virulently anti-Communist, anti-Establishment and anti-Semitic and within a year or two, had taken control and renamed it the National Socialist German Worker's Party ("NSDAP"). From there he proceed to establish an essentially Fascist ideology (after the Italian model of Mussolini) which was obviously very anti-Left Wing, but cannot be easily assumed to be conversely Right Wing, either.
This is because whilst the Far Right purports (at least) to eschew Governmental interference in everyday life, Hitler was also a nationalist totalitarian, who believed it was his destiny to direct the German people to their rightful place as governors of Europe in an expanded Germany.
Anyhow, the fact of the Nazi Party having the term "Socialist" and "Workers" in its official title is a coincidental anachronism - the key is that they were "National(ist)" and "German" i.e. Fascist.
"Here endeth the history lesson for today".
Sorry. :(
The word "Nazi" is an abbreviation of the German for National Socialist .
A lot easier than writing or saying the full mouthful ......
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 01, 2018, 06:02:45 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 01, 2018, 05:03:13 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on July 31, 2018, 04:37:11 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 31, 2018, 04:31:34 PM
Just to really get peoples goats up.
How many GAA members were involved in the Easter Rising. I always thought it was concentrated in Dublin and was quite shambolic in its organisation. Events there after granted had more effect. I don't think it's true that 1000's of GAA members from across the country took place.
Commemorating members involved in the PIRA's campaign in NI isn't something I'd like to associate with. Only a very small minority were involved in violence in NI. To paint it as loads of GAA members were in the PIRA isn't accurate. Therefore having huge commemorations in GAA grounds, I think, is inappropriate.
Perhaps the question should be if "loads" of volunteers were in the GAA
A good gauge might be to compare percentage of volunteers to the general populace v % of volunteers to GAA involvement.
They'd be interesting figures if they were available.
It is estimated that there were approximately 2,500 Republican volunteers who actively participated in the Easter Rising:
http://ireland-calling.com/lifestyle/participants-in-easter-rising-1916/ (http://ireland-calling.com/lifestyle/participants-in-easter-rising-1916/)
It should not be surprising if it were proven that a significant number of these were also in the GAA.
However, over 200,000 Irishmen volunteered to fight in WWI. And even discounting the proportion of those who were Unionists from Ulster (a minority of the 200k, if a sizeable one), it is inconceivable that a significant number of these weren't also GAA members. Indeed, from simple mathematics, it is possible that as many as 50 x times the number of GAA members fought in the World War as in The Rising.
Of course, subsequent events meant that such a truth was unwelcome in many quarters of Irish Nationalism and the GAA etc, and so history was largely re-written to suit.
But with the passage of time, the "certainties" of the past are being revisited from the objectivity of distance, and the record is beginning to be updated.
I quoted this article earlier, but repeat it for the benefit of those who did not read it first time - it's interesting stuff (imo):
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/from-gaelic-fields-to-poppy-fields-the-gaa-s-hidden-part-in-the-great-war-1.3476517 (https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/from-gaelic-fields-to-poppy-fields-the-gaa-s-hidden-part-in-the-great-war-1.3476517)
Thanks for sharing EG. As I suspected many more fought on the British / Allied side rather than being involved in the Easter Rising. Indeed it also highlights that even at that time the politicising of the GAA was an issue.
Many on both sides here in the North would do well to remember that. I believe the GAA is a force for good in people's lives and should not be used as some sort of political football by either Nationalism or Unionism. Yes our games are Irish and traditions are Irish, but they should not be viewed as a vehicle for Nationalism, rather they should be taken at face value for what they are, sporting activities. No more than Shinty being a sporting Scottish game.
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 01, 2018, 06:19:00 PM
Quote from: five points on August 01, 2018, 05:55:13 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on August 01, 2018, 03:43:31 PM
Heh? Am I picking this up wrong or are you saying the Nazis were left wing??? Every day's a school day on here!!!
Yep, if they have the word socialist in their name and espouse big-state authoritarianism, it should be a giveaway. :)
Sorry, but you're talking nonsense.
Briefly, when Hitler was demobbed after 1918, he drifted around aimlessly looking for some purpose after the army. German politics was in a state of absolute chaos around then with literally dozens (if not more) of small parties from right across the political spectrum all jostling to establish an influence. In particular, the Bolshviks and Communists were prominent, what with the success of the Russian Revolution in 1917, leading to the inevitable backlash from right wing parties.
Hitler happened to latch onto the tiny German Workers' Party ("DAP") in 1919, probably because its leader was virulently anti-Communist, anti-Establishment and anti-Semitic and within a year or two, had taken control and renamed it the National Socialist German Worker's Party ("NSDAP"). From there he proceed to establish an essentially Fascist ideology (after the Italian model of Mussolini) which was obviously very anti-Left Wing, but cannot be easily assumed to be conversely Right Wing, either.
This is because whilst the Far Right purports (at least) to eschew Governmental interference in everyday life, Hitler was also a nationalist totalitarian, who believed it was his destiny to direct the German people to their rightful place as governors of Europe in an expanded Germany.
Anyhow, the fact of the Nazi Party having the term "Socialist" and "Workers" in its official title is a coincidental anachronism - the key is that they were "National(ist)" and "German" i.e. Fascist.
"Here endeth the history lesson for today".
Sorry. :(
Fascism is on the right. There is an ongoing agenda to pin it on the left as some sort of extreme socialism. That is not true.
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 01, 2018, 05:43:57 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on August 01, 2018, 05:00:21 PMIreland's sovereignty is protected mostly by NATO and the UN
Ah jaysus, I'm getting sucked in again, I told myself I shouldn't, but I am....
Anyhow, I think you're overlooking (deliberately?) what is effectively the primary component in the military preservation of the Republic's sovereignty, namely "The Hated Brits" ;)
Royal Air Force asked to defend Ireland
British combat aircraft will 'shoot down aircraft over Ireland if they are hijacked by terrorists', according to local media.
According to the Irish Examiner, "five well-placed sources in Ireland and one in Britain have pointed to the agreement being in place, with a number saying the Defence Forces was not involved in negotiating it, despite the RAF asking for its inclusion."
Ireland lacks aircraft that can climb high enough or go fast enough to intercept Russian aircraft which came close to Irish airspace on a couple of occasions in 2015, being driven away by British jets.
It is understood that Civil servants from the Irish Department of Defence and Department of Foreign Affairs with the Irish Aviation Authority (IAA) entered into a bilateral agreement with British counterparts: the RAF, the Civil Aviation Authority, the Ministry of Defence, and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office.
The agreement reportedly permits the British military to conduct armed operations over Ireland in the event of a terrorist-attack, real or suspected.
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/royal-air-force-asked-defend-ireland/ (https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/royal-air-force-asked-defend-ireland/)
More here: https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/raf-tornado-jets-could-shoot-down-hijacked-planes-in-irish-airspace-414646.html (https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/raf-tornado-jets-could-shoot-down-hijacked-planes-in-irish-airspace-414646.html)
Not at all avoiding it but its fairly obvious they would be providing the bulk of it due to their proximity. Fairly confident they would be (and have been) providing protection regardless whether it was asked for or not due to the strategic importance of Ireland. The presence of a hostile military on the island of Ireland would simply not be tolerated by the Brits and NATO, whether that military was invited by Ireland or was invading it would be irrelevant to them.
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 01, 2018, 06:19:00 PM
Quote from: five points on August 01, 2018, 05:55:13 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on August 01, 2018, 03:43:31 PM
Heh? Am I picking this up wrong or are you saying the Nazis were left wing??? Every day's a school day on here!!!
Yep, if they have the word socialist in their name and espouse big-state authoritarianism, it should be a giveaway. :)
Sorry, but you're talking nonsense.
Briefly, when Hitler was demobbed after 1918, he drifted around aimlessly looking for some purpose after the army. German politics was in a state of absolute chaos around then with literally dozens (if not more) of small parties from right across the political spectrum all jostling to establish an influence. In particular, the Bolshviks and Communists were prominent, what with the success of the Russian Revolution in 1917, leading to the inevitable backlash from right wing parties.
Hitler happened to latch onto the tiny German Workers' Party ("DAP") in 1919, probably because its leader was virulently anti-Communist, anti-Establishment and anti-Semitic and within a year or two, had taken control and renamed it the National Socialist German Worker's Party ("NSDAP"). From there he proceed to establish an essentially Fascist ideology (after the Italian model of Mussolini) which was obviously very anti-Left Wing, but cannot be easily assumed to be conversely Right Wing, either.
This is because whilst the Far Right purports (at least) to eschew Governmental interference in everyday life, Hitler was also a nationalist totalitarian, who believed it was his destiny to direct the German people to their rightful place as governors of Europe in an expanded Germany.
Anyhow, the fact of the Nazi Party having the term "Socialist" and "Workers" in its official title is a coincidental anachronism - the key is that they were "National(ist)" and "German" i.e. Fascist.
"Here endeth the history lesson for today".
Sorry. :(
You still haven't explained how big-state authoritarianism can be classed as right-wing, which (last time I checked) is the ideology of individualism.
As for Hitler, why exactly did he rename the DAP as he did?
Hitler's main grievance with Russian-style socialism was neither its methods nor its philosophy of the subservience of the individual to the state, but his perception that it was run by "the Jews" as he put it. The fact that he infected his version of socialism with notions of racial superiority is rather beside the point.
Quote from: omaghjoe on August 01, 2018, 09:18:51 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 01, 2018, 05:43:57 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on August 01, 2018, 05:00:21 PMIreland's sovereignty is protected mostly by NATO and the UN
Ah jaysus, I'm getting sucked in again, I told myself I shouldn't, but I am....
Anyhow, I think you're overlooking (deliberately?) what is effectively the primary component in the military preservation of the Republic's sovereignty, namely "The Hated Brits" ;)
Royal Air Force asked to defend Ireland
British combat aircraft will 'shoot down aircraft over Ireland if they are hijacked by terrorists', according to local media.
According to the Irish Examiner, "five well-placed sources in Ireland and one in Britain have pointed to the agreement being in place, with a number saying the Defence Forces was not involved in negotiating it, despite the RAF asking for its inclusion."
Ireland lacks aircraft that can climb high enough or go fast enough to intercept Russian aircraft which came close to Irish airspace on a couple of occasions in 2015, being driven away by British jets.
It is understood that Civil servants from the Irish Department of Defence and Department of Foreign Affairs with the Irish Aviation Authority (IAA) entered into a bilateral agreement with British counterparts: the RAF, the Civil Aviation Authority, the Ministry of Defence, and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office.
The agreement reportedly permits the British military to conduct armed operations over Ireland in the event of a terrorist-attack, real or suspected.
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/royal-air-force-asked-defend-ireland/ (https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/royal-air-force-asked-defend-ireland/)
More here: https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/raf-tornado-jets-could-shoot-down-hijacked-planes-in-irish-airspace-414646.html (https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/raf-tornado-jets-could-shoot-down-hijacked-planes-in-irish-airspace-414646.html)
Not at all avoiding it but its fairly obvious they would be providing the bulk of it due to their proximity. Fairly confident they would be (and have been) providing protection regardless whether it was asked for or not due to the strategic importance of Ireland. The presence of a hostile military on the island of Ireland would simply not be tolerated by the Brits and NATO, whether that military was invited by Ireland or was invading it would be irrelevant to them.
It has been agreed upon formally. We have had a military MOU with the UK since 2015.
http://opac.oireachtas.ie/AWData/Library3/DEFMemorandum_of_Understanding_between_the_UK_and_Ireland_on_the_enhancement_of_bilateral_engagement_on_certain_aspects_of_defence_and_security_co-operation19012015_174233.pdf
The Irish taxpayer is only interesting in free-riding when it comes to security and defence. Any government that tried to properly fund this area would be hammered for it.