What can the GAA do to resurrect an interest in Intercounty Football?

[Dinny Breen]

Weaker counties are trying to compete in an arms race that they have no hope of winning, Dinny.
The purpose of a tiered championship is not to bring a Division 4 team up to a Division 1 standard.
A three-tiered championship, with a one-up, one-down rule would give teams a realistic aspiration.
You have to win your division or you stay there.
That is the definition of meaningful competition.

The TV rights package could build in coverage of the intermediate and junior championships, and I would advocate that each championship would finish with a series of games, based on final positions in the table.
So, your goal is to make the final series, which is attainable and realistic.
I am not denying for one second that this would be a culture-shock, but the current inter-county championship structure is an anomaly.
We're basically bringing it back into line with the majority of GAA competitions.

Will it make the gap between the strong and weak bigger?
Probably, but the strong won't be playing the weak.

Weaker teams use the league to improve standards, that is a sustainable and realistic competition for all counties. The Championship is just an opportunity, a moment of hope. The fact that it's rarely taken should not be be the story, the story is the romance and for those 70 mins you are the same as Kerry or Dublin. An equal.

In the Christy Ring Cup, one of Kildare's star's on Saturday was James Burke. He was in a coma suffering meningitis in April. These are the kind of stories that get suppressed in Tiered competitions.

That story should have been the lead on the Sunday Game, barely got a comment.

I saw that story, but the only reason I did is social media, which is another important consideration.
How would you say James felt after winning the cup, given the year he has had?
Now contrast that with Kildare playing Kilkenny, Galway and Wexford etc. in a hypothetical Leinster hurling championship.
James got his day in the sun, and he'll remember that for the rest of his life.

I am sure he will, but it should be a story on the National consciousness, elevating it above sport, imagine if he was playing Kilkenny in the Leinster Championship, sharing a field with those warriors after a near death experience. That's a movie right there....

Would he rather lose by 50 points to Kilkenny or win a Christy Ring Cup in Croke Park?
We've no way of knowing, but I know which I would prefer.

A 50 point loss no doubt. But at least it might be on TV and the back page of some newspaper. Fully embarrass themselves to a national audience.

yea cause that's all the matter's, the result. The kid was nearly dead you gobshite. What a f*cking arsehole you are.

Take it whatever way you want. My comment is in relation to the topic of a tiered championship and nothing to do with the lad. But you want to take it in that context. That's fine. Says more about you than it does me.

No it says you are either illiterate or an arsehole, we were talking about a hypothetical situation regarding the kid, you threw in your ill-informed opinion on top of that.

[seafoid]

There is already a de facto tiering given the gaps between teams in the big matches 

20 teams are in the no chance pot and out by the end of the last r3 match  . They give great entertainment in May and June but they don't qualify for all stars .

8 teams play in r4 of the qualifiers and can play 20 minutes of football when the mojo is present. They all have some sort of Achilles heel or Achilles cruciate  or Achilles psychological issue.

3 teams win the provincial final at a canter and are the supporting cast to

The one and only Dublin

We know that attendances have been falling for a number of years. I wonder if it is similar for RTE viewing figures.

[trailer]

Weaker counties are trying to compete in an arms race that they have no hope of winning, Dinny.
The purpose of a tiered championship is not to bring a Division 4 team up to a Division 1 standard.
A three-tiered championship, with a one-up, one-down rule would give teams a realistic aspiration.
You have to win your division or you stay there.
That is the definition of meaningful competition.

The TV rights package could build in coverage of the intermediate and junior championships, and I would advocate that each championship would finish with a series of games, based on final positions in the table.
So, your goal is to make the final series, which is attainable and realistic.
I am not denying for one second that this would be a culture-shock, but the current inter-county championship structure is an anomaly.
We're basically bringing it back into line with the majority of GAA competitions.

Will it make the gap between the strong and weak bigger?
Probably, but the strong won't be playing the weak.

Weaker teams use the league to improve standards, that is a sustainable and realistic competition for all counties. The Championship is just an opportunity, a moment of hope. The fact that it's rarely taken should not be be the story, the story is the romance and for those 70 mins you are the same as Kerry or Dublin. An equal.

In the Christy Ring Cup, one of Kildare's star's on Saturday was James Burke. He was in a coma suffering meningitis in April. These are the kind of stories that get suppressed in Tiered competitions.

That story should have been the lead on the Sunday Game, barely got a comment.

I saw that story, but the only reason I did is social media, which is another important consideration.
How would you say James felt after winning the cup, given the year he has had?
Now contrast that with Kildare playing Kilkenny, Galway and Wexford etc. in a hypothetical Leinster hurling championship.
James got his day in the sun, and he'll remember that for the rest of his life.

I am sure he will, but it should be a story on the National consciousness, elevating it above sport, imagine if he was playing Kilkenny in the Leinster Championship, sharing a field with those warriors after a near death experience. That's a movie right there....

Would he rather lose by 50 points to Kilkenny or win a Christy Ring Cup in Croke Park?
We've no way of knowing, but I know which I would prefer.

A 50 point loss no doubt. But at least it might be on TV and the back page of some newspaper. Fully embarrass themselves to a national audience.

yea cause that's all the matter's, the result. The kid was nearly dead you gobshite. What a f*cking arsehole you are.

Take it whatever way you want. My comment is in relation to the topic of a tiered championship and nothing to do with the lad. But you want to take it in that context. That's fine. Says more about you than it does me.

No it says you are either illiterate or an arsehole, we were talking about a hypothetical situation regarding the kid, you threw in your ill-informed opinion on top of that.

Yet you had no problem with Jinxy's comment.....

[blewuporstuffed]

Weaker counties are trying to compete in an arms race that they have no hope of winning, Dinny.
The purpose of a tiered championship is not to bring a Division 4 team up to a Division 1 standard.
A three-tiered championship, with a one-up, one-down rule would give teams a realistic aspiration.
You have to win your division or you stay there.
That is the definition of meaningful competition.

The TV rights package could build in coverage of the intermediate and junior championships, and I would advocate that each championship would finish with a series of games, based on final positions in the table.
So, your goal is to make the final series, which is attainable and realistic.
I am not denying for one second that this would be a culture-shock, but the current inter-county championship structure is an anomaly.
We're basically bringing it back into line with the majority of GAA competitions.

Will it make the gap between the strong and weak bigger?
Probably, but the strong won't be playing the weak.

I agree, 100% Jinxy, part from the fact that I don't see it making the gap any bigger. We will always have the big counties, due to size, history and resources, for the rest of the counties, good teams will come around in cycles.
Will it lead to Carlow winning an all Ireland? That's doubtful, but it may lead to them being able to build something and work their way up to consistently compete with the bigger guns.

[seafoid]

I don't see why the GAA always has to have the same model for the championship. Sometimes the competition is open eg the 90s when 6 or 7 counties won Sam. Now is more like a monopoly situation.
They could bring back provincials when the openness returns.

[From the Bunker]

I don't see why the GAA always has to have the same model for the championship. Sometimes the competition is open eg the 90s when 6 or 7 counties won Sam. Now is more like a monopoly situation.
They could bring back provincials when the openness returns.

When the openness returns? You mean when it's a open dog fight between Dublin and Kerry?

Provincials would be like Home store and Mores slogan ''When they're gone they're gone!''

[seafoid]

I don't see why the GAA always has to have the same model for the championship. Sometimes the competition is open eg the 90s when 6 or 7 counties won Sam. Now is more like a monopoly situation.
They could bring back provincials when the openness returns.

When the openness returns? You mean when it's a open dog fight between Dublin and Kerry?

Provincials would be like Home store and Mores slogan ''When they're gone they're gone!''

As soon as a BMW team wins. It happens after monopoly and duopoly collapse

[inthrough]

I'd say interest in the games has never been as high as we will see come super 8s in the next few weeks - will be non stop high quality games with big crowds and massive media coverage
Won't be a word about interest then I'd say.

Spot on.

[Rossfan]

An awful lot of interest created in the Kildare v Mayo game anyway

[Solo_run]

Force teams to give up home advantage

[rosnarun]

Force teams to give up home advantage

and create a row and get the championship back on the front pages
soccer had saipan

[Syferus]

Force teams to give up home advantage

and create a row and get the championship back on the front pages
soccer had saipan

Fairly sure soccer was going to be front page news regardless the summer we made our third ever World Cup.

[APM]

I remember posting here under a different name during the early noughties in a previous incarnation of the board, that I was concerned about over exposure of the GAA where interest would wear off because of so many televised games and once the novelty of the qualifiers wore off.  If anyone thinks that attendances will bottom out, just look at the history of the Railway Cup which attracted huge numbers in the 1950s and 60s.  Now they are lucky to attract a couple of hundred spectators. Maintaining good attendances isn't inevitable and at the minute the GAA seems to be focusing on growing the number of attendances by growing the number of games, instead of increasing the numbers per game. 

There are several things that are doing untold damage at the moment:

• Football not as good to watch.  Think back to the early 90's with Bernard Flynn, Mickey Linden and James McCartan sprinting out to the wing to win long angled balls, turning their man and running at goal.  One of the delights of football that is resigned to history.  Now, its pass the ball laterally to someone running in an arc from the sideline - repeat ad naseum.  The product is not as good.  Either we go to 13 aside or change the technical rules to stop defensive play.  However, that will lead to more hammerings, which is the second problem.
• Hammerings - too many of them - look at Cahir O'Kane's article in today's Irish News.  Bang on the money.  The best teams are getting better and harder to defend against.  Not even Dublin fans want to see the Dubs beat Westmeath by 20pts.  No entertainment value in that.  GAA need to spend money creating a level playing field.  Dublin do not need any more money given their natural advantage in sponsorship and sheer numbers. 
• Half empty stadia - This is one thing the GAA can do something about.  Playing a game that will attract 20,000 in Croke Park is stupid.  There is no atmosphere in the ground and it looks rubbish on TV.  Yet they continue to do this. Instead, why not bring these games to Newbridge etc.  Big demand for tickets and rockin atmosphere in the ground. 

[Hardy]

I remember posting here under a different name during the early noughties in a previous incarnation of the board, that I was concerned about over exposure of the GAA where interest would wear off because of so many televised games and once the novelty of the qualifiers wore off.  If anyone thinks that attendances will bottom out, just look at the history of the Railway Cup which attracted huge numbers in the 1950s and 60s.  Now they are lucky to attract a couple of hundred spectators. Maintaining good attendances isn't inevitable and at the minute the GAA seems to be focusing on growing the number of attendances by growing the number of games, instead of increasing the numbers per game. 

There are several things that are doing untold damage at the moment:

   
• Football not as good to watch.  Think back to the early 90's with Bernard Flynn, Mickey Linden and James McCartan sprinting out to the wing to win long angled balls, turning their man and running at goal.  One of the delights of football that is resigned to history.  Now, its pass the ball laterally to someone running in an arc from the sideline - repeat ad naseum.  The product is not as good.  Either we go to 13 aside or change the technical rules to stop defensive play.  However, that will lead to more hammerings, which is the second problem.
• Hammerings - too many of them - look at Cahir O'Kane's article in today's Irish News.  Bang on the money.  The best teams are getting better and harder to defend against.  Not even Dublin fans want to see the Dubs beat Westmeath by 20pts.  No entertainment value in that.  GAA need to spend money creating a level playing field.  Dublin do not need any more money given their natural advantage in sponsorship and sheer numbers. 
• Half empty stadia - This is one thing the GAA can do something about.  Playing a game that will attract 20,000 in Croke Park is stupid.  There is no atmosphere in the ground and it looks rubbish on TV.  Yet they continue to do this. Instead, why not bring these games to Newbridge etc.  Big demand for tickets and rockin atmosphere in the ground. 

They're making some progress on this one, at least.

Good post.

[Captain Obvious]

I remember posting here under a different name during the early noughties in a previous incarnation of the board, that I was concerned about over exposure of the GAA where interest would wear off because of so many televised games and once the novelty of the qualifiers wore off.  If anyone thinks that attendances will bottom out, just look at the history of the Railway Cup which attracted huge numbers in the 1950s and 60s.  Now they are lucky to attract a couple of hundred spectators. Maintaining good attendances isn't inevitable and at the minute the GAA seems to be focusing on growing the number of attendances by growing the number of games, instead of increasing the numbers per game. 

There are several things that are doing untold damage at the moment:

   
• Football not as good to watch.  Think back to the early 90's with Bernard Flynn, Mickey Linden and James McCartan sprinting out to the wing to win long angled balls, turning their man and running at goal.  One of the delights of football that is resigned to history.  Now, its pass the ball laterally to someone running in an arc from the sideline - repeat ad naseum.  The product is not as good.  Either we go to 13 aside or change the technical rules to stop defensive play.  However, that will lead to more hammerings, which is the second problem.
• Hammerings - too many of them - look at Cahir O'Kane's article in today's Irish News.  Bang on the money.  The best teams are getting better and harder to defend against.  Not even Dublin fans want to see the Dubs beat Westmeath by 20pts.  No entertainment value in that.  GAA need to spend money creating a level playing field.  Dublin do not need any more money given their natural advantage in sponsorship and sheer numbers. 
• Half empty stadia - This is one thing the GAA can do something about.  Playing a game that will attract 20,000 in Croke Park is stupid.  There is no atmosphere in the ground and it looks rubbish on TV.  Yet they continue to do this. Instead, why not bring these games to Newbridge etc.  Big demand for tickets and rockin atmosphere in the ground. 

They're making some progress on this one, at least.

Good post.

At the Kildare minor match tonight.