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GAA Discussion => GAA Discussion => Topic started by: IolarCoisCuain on October 04, 2016, 07:27:37 PM

Title: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: IolarCoisCuain on October 04, 2016, 07:27:37 PM
Typically polemical article by Ewan McKenna in The Times today:
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dublins-predictable-win-makes-gaa-the-big-loser-lp5g7sszz?shareToken=7d3f35746e3ce56fc91a1a4b641db378



Dublin’s predictable win makes GAA the big loser

Ewan MacKenna
Gaelic football commentary

It was in 2014 that Joachim Löw sat in a press room beneath the Maracana, the Germany football coach’s face and his words hiding just what he and his nation had achieved in Brazil. With Germany just proclaimed world champions, it was a title that should have allowed the mask to slip, letting us into the very soul of victory. Only he saw it differently.

“We started this project ten years ago, so this is the result of many years’ work,” he said matter-of-factly, as if talking about erecting a garden fence. “We’ve continued that work and our strength has been our constant progress. We’d not made this ultimate step before.”

After the colour and chaos of the World Cup that was a beautiful representation of the nation that hosted it, that seemed the wrong ending. Yet, it was a moment that came to mind in the aftermath of this All-Ireland final replay. The game itself may have been brutally brilliant with Mayo showing that the well is deeper than we could ever have imagined and Dublin digging far beyond the frontline to get over the finish, but this too seemed cold and mistaken. Money had bypassed passion.

There are many similarities between Dublin and Germany, the most obvious being a perfect use of endless resources to get to the top, but there are many key differences as well. For instance, some countries can get near to Germany’s financial wealth, some countries can match their playing and coaching numbers, and crucially for all Fifa’s flaws it never favoured any one nation to the detriment of the game it rules. Consider that for a moment. In the role of director-general since 2008, Paraic Duffy is often heralded and given an easy ride as a productive sports administrator, but think too about the years he’s been in the job and the fact he’s overseen the biggest case of doping in modern Irish sport. The financial doping that destroyed Leinster and is now destroying our greatest tournament.

By now we know the figures. Last year after a long and similar trend the GAA handed over €1,460,400 to the capital in a games development grant, more than any province combined with only one other county getting even six figures. That is before the €1 million a year special grant given over via the taxpayer and the Irish Sports Council. That is before we get to the fact that their population not only means a player base that dwarfs all others, but it also means a market that allows its sponsorship to dwarf all others. You can be sure that unlike in many places Bernard Brogan and Stephen Cluxton will not be on O’Connell Bridge in the coming months with a bucket asking for loose change to fund their efforts to be the best.

Of course none of this is Dublin’s fault, they hve merely excelled off the field as they hve excelled on it. But it is the GAA’s fault, for shame.

Therefore, strip away the emotion and fascination of Saturday and what essentially happened was a professional team in almost every way won a trophy contested by amateur opposition. We do not get excited when Manchester City brush past lower-league opposition in the cup, we do not get excited when a Mercedes whizzes past a Force India, so why is this different? When the Simpsons drew Homer in the ring with Drederick Tatum it was comedy yet what we have here is tragedy.

Dublin’s players and management are not in the business of entertaining us, they are in the business of winning and they are exceptional at it. Yet, in the aftermath of this latest victory, there was something representative in their dull and carefully dusted words. Brogan could well have been speaking after an O’Byrne Cup game; Dean Rock used more clichés than the points he had kicked in a defining performance; Cluxton ticked the corporate boxes on the steps as he received the trophy. It was a representation of the machine they have become, overtaking the sport they play.

Deep down Dublin fans know this but have long had safeguards. They mention Kilkenny and Kerry when there is no numerical comparison. They mention how close Mayo got, when they have not been beaten in 29 games, most of which are akin to the Harlem Globetrotters humiliating the Washington Generals. They mention how this is a special generation and while it is, so is the next one and the one after that – indeed this final was telling as it was not the special generation that won it, it was instead the next generation with the likes of Rock and substitute Cormac Costello proving decisive. If you find the facts negative or bitter, then you problem is with the facts and with reality and if you do not money makes a telling difference, you really don’t understand modern sport.

This is not difficult stuff. In fact after that 2014 World Cup final, sitting on a beach with soccer journalists, they asked about football. From a sphere of monopolisation and big bucks, they laughed at what the GAA had done and what they had made Dublin. But no one who truly cares about and loves the game is laughing now. Sadly, it is fitting that in these years of boom for the minority and bust for the majority in Ireland, the national game has been subjected to the same sort of ultra-capitalism in a ruthless form. The governing body jumped straight into bed with its cash cow and closed the door. All we can now see is the result of what went on.

Still the GAA expect us to lap up relatively tiny projects here and there, such as their €125,000 a year offered to Kildare, Meath, Louth and Wicklow to help with coaching. But smaller counties than Dublin actually need much more money than Dublin to balance out demographic disparity. This is merely loose change being flung at a homeless man to lighten the wallet and change perception. Do not buy that for a minute for they have long since chosen their partner. Aogan O Fearghail may have physically given Cluxton the trophy at the weekend, but his organisation long ago gave it to them.

In 1989 economist Francis Fukayama wrote an essay titled The End of History in which he described the collapse of communism and the triumph of capitalism as the end of mankind’s ideological evolution. Across the 2000s though we saw the triumph of capitalism in what is supposed to be an amateur sport, and the result is the end of football’s history. Dublin may have predictably won, but the game is the huge loser in all of this.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Rossfan on October 04, 2016, 07:53:05 PM
So true.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on October 04, 2016, 08:08:40 PM
Just bitterness, the GAA should continue on its current path as we can't be going back to the days of people from the rest of the country enjoying inter county football.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: blast05 on October 04, 2016, 08:14:16 PM
This is truly staggering...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ct8TECwXEAAavJn.jpg:large (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ct8TECwXEAAavJn.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Jinxy on October 04, 2016, 08:57:20 PM
Structures, sound financial planning, foresight etc.
You're all just jealous!
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: ballinaman on October 04, 2016, 09:01:09 PM
Haters gonna hate
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: snoopdog on October 04, 2016, 09:10:12 PM
The cash cow keeps on giving. It's noore than a lot of people think. Ewan is bang on with this article.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Bord na Mona man on October 04, 2016, 09:21:30 PM
Yizzer just jealous culchies.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: blast05 on October 04, 2016, 11:21:17 PM
I'm a bleedin' broke culchie.
For every 1 euro given to games development for a young lad in Mayo, €12 is given for a young lad in Dublin.
I'm still recovering from half choking on me slice of treacle cake and milky tea after the supper.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: tyssam5 on October 04, 2016, 11:45:08 PM
This is truly staggering...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ct8TECwXEAAavJn.jpg:large (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ct8TECwXEAAavJn.jpg:large)

Staggering is not the word for it, apparently I live in Fermanagh.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Beffs on October 04, 2016, 11:46:35 PM
This is truly staggering...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ct8TECwXEAAavJn.jpg:large (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ct8TECwXEAAavJn.jpg:large)

Maybe I'm being a bit thick, but doesn't that money go towards Games Development Officers in clubs? It doesn't go towards the inter county set up.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Jinxy on October 05, 2016, 12:05:39 AM
That's the whole point.
It's the money Dublin have to spend on producing players for the inter county set up.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on October 05, 2016, 12:18:27 AM
The 3 lowest teams there are 3 of the biggest underachievers in recent years in terms of population in Cork, Galway and Kildare. Kerry are doing ok but they have massive revenue from sponsorship and donations. Meath's and Down are two other teams who should be getting better looked after. Tyrone and Donegal are doing very well with limited support but they have good income streams.

 
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on October 05, 2016, 12:30:00 AM
This is truly staggering...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ct8TECwXEAAavJn.jpg:large (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ct8TECwXEAAavJn.jpg:large)

Lowest in the country. At least we're winning something.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on October 05, 2016, 12:35:37 AM
The 3 lowest teams there are 3 of the biggest underachievers in recent years in terms of population in Cork, Galway and Kildare.

As much as money needed to be pumped into Dublin it is even more badly needed in our other urban areas now which have been practically completely ignored and left to wither on the vine by the top brass.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Ohtoohtobe on October 05, 2016, 01:06:37 AM
Of course games development money should be distributed more evenly but I don't see how it's behind Dublin's four All-Irelands.

The vast majority of their key players were long out of primary school when this project started.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: mup on October 05, 2016, 08:42:55 AM
The money saved on development can be pumped in elsewhere.

I find those figures very disturbing.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: ashman on October 05, 2016, 08:45:43 AM
The real problem is that the GAA hierarchy "needed" a successful Dublin football team .  That is a financial reality. 
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: The Aristocrat on October 05, 2016, 08:48:01 AM
There has been 42 other threads on this, no need for a new one. Those figures don't show truth in my opinion.

If someone has the stats of how many 7 to 18 years old play in Dublin compared to the rest of the counties please?

Anyway greatest thing Dublin have done, its great to give the resources to the children of the city to promote our national game. Well done Dublin county board.

Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: mup on October 05, 2016, 09:03:37 AM
The money is per registered player. Not sure how that doesn't show the truth.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: tonto1888 on October 05, 2016, 09:12:34 AM
The 3 lowest teams there are 3 of the biggest underachievers in recent years in terms of population in Cork, Galway and Kildare. Kerry are doing ok but they have massive revenue from sponsorship and donations. Meath's and Down are two other teams who should be getting better looked after. Tyrone and Donegal are doing very well with limited support but they have good income streams.

how much did the Garvaghey Cebtre cost?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: JoG2 on October 05, 2016, 09:38:32 AM
There has been 42 other threads on this, no need for a new one. Those figures don't show truth in my opinion.

If someone has the stats of how many 7 to 18 years old play in Dublin compared to the rest of the counties please?

Anyway greatest thing Dublin have done, its great to give the resources to the children of the city to promote our national game. Well done Dublin county board.

and you've replied ad nauseam on them all...take a break and enjoy 'your' victory
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: redhandefender on October 05, 2016, 09:45:35 AM
The 3 lowest teams there are 3 of the biggest underachievers in recent years in terms of population in Cork, Galway and Kildare. Kerry are doing ok but they have massive revenue from sponsorship and donations. Meath's and Down are two other teams who should be getting better looked after. Tyrone and Donegal are doing very well with limited support but they have good income streams.

how much did the Garvaghey Cebtre cost?

Its an absolute disgrace and its been going on for years. Even the NFL the most professional organisation going have a system in place to try and level the playing field. The GAA will sit and do nothing until its too late.

I don't know what garvaghey to do with it. We have a good system in place for raising funds from supporters and have loans which are being paid back? Whats your point about Garvaghey. Dublin have just build a fracility that dwarfs it
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: The Aristocrat on October 05, 2016, 10:00:35 AM
There has been 42 other threads on this, no need for a new one. Those figures don't show truth in my opinion.

If someone has the stats of how many 7 to 18 years old play in Dublin compared to the rest of the counties please?

Anyway greatest thing Dublin have done, its great to give the resources to the children of the city to promote our national game. Well done Dublin county board.

and you've replied ad nauseam on them all...take a break and enjoy 'your' victory

Just pointing it out, im not going to get involved in this rubbish again drivin my Spewen McKenna, its agenda driven and doesn't cover the reality on the ground in Dublin. There are better articles from journalists that have written previous articles with exact figures, where the money goes exactly, how it used, playing figures etc. I actually think that Spewans obsession is affecting his mental health and im worried for him. He is also on the Kildare GAA forum spouting as well as trying to infiltrate Res Dubs.

One fund fact that Spewan doesn't mention is this: the fact Dublin employs its own coaching and games administrators, while in all other counties they are employed by the province.

Another fund fact the coaches are mainly used for primary schools and mini leagues and youth player coaching, its a great thing, its great for the children to get them interested in Gaelic games.

I was worried when Tyrone put 8 million pound into a centre of excellence, I thought wow, how can we compete with that , they will dominate etc but no, same with Dublin, its a very very good team but wont last forever.

As I said previously, fair play Dublin and Dublin county board.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Maroon Manc on October 05, 2016, 10:02:07 AM
The money is per registered player. Not sure how that doesn't show the truth.

I suspect you won't get a response from any Dub.

Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 05, 2016, 10:02:15 AM
I know it is wrong about Dublin getting so much funding, but are the rest of the county boards so powerless that they can't ask questions as to why not us? Just wondering. Surely it would be no harm in asking for increased funding...
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Maroon Manc on October 05, 2016, 10:08:27 AM
I know it is wrong about Dublin getting so much funding, but are the rest of the county boards so powerless that they can't ask questions as to why not us? Just wondering. Surely it would be no harm in asking for increased funding...

I just don't know how everyone else has stood back and allowed it to happen.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: The Aristocrat on October 05, 2016, 10:10:32 AM
The money is per registered player. Not sure how that doesn't show the truth.

I suspect you won't get a response from any Dub.

Show me the figures, the exact figures on registered players vrs other counties.

The primary school coaching would also include no registered players.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: winghalfun on October 05, 2016, 10:13:33 AM
Before this All-Ireland final I would have agreed with the article but now I am not so sure.

This Dublin team are not as great as the sum of all their parts.

They staggered over the line helped by Mayo's naivety/bad luck/poor decision making.  Nothing to do with money.

I'm sure Mickey Harte was ruefully looking on thinking what a missed opportunity.

Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Dinny Breen on October 05, 2016, 10:38:18 AM
I know it is wrong about Dublin getting so much funding, but are the rest of the county boards so powerless that they can't ask questions as to why not us? Just wondering. Surely it would be no harm in asking for increased funding...

Seemingly Carlow asked for additional funding for football, were turned down as they had got funding for hurling. Money which Carlow I might add have spent very wisely.

Have been highlighting this for years and the pigs have just grunted at me. Wonder will it get any traction now or will we have to wait till Dublin win a Hurling All-Ireland.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Jinxy on October 05, 2016, 10:39:40 AM
The 3 lowest teams there are 3 of the biggest underachievers in recent years in terms of population in Cork, Galway and Kildare. Kerry are doing ok but they have massive revenue from sponsorship and donations. Meath's and Down are two other teams who should be getting better looked after. Tyrone and Donegal are doing very well with limited support but they have good income streams.

how much did the Garvaghey Cebtre cost?

Its an absolute disgrace and its been going on for years. Even the NFL the most professional organisation going have a system in place to try and level the playing field. The GAA will sit and do nothing until its too late.

I don't know what garvaghey to do with it. We have a good system in place for raising funds from supporters and have loans which are being paid back? Whats your point about Garvaghey. Dublin have just build a fracility that dwarfs it

You can replace the word 'build' with 'been given', I think.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: The Aristocrat on October 05, 2016, 11:22:20 AM
The 3 lowest teams there are 3 of the biggest underachievers in recent years in terms of population in Cork, Galway and Kildare. Kerry are doing ok but they have massive revenue from sponsorship and donations. Meath's and Down are two other teams who should be getting better looked after. Tyrone and Donegal are doing very well with limited support but they have good income streams.

how much did the Garvaghey Cebtre cost?

Its an absolute disgrace and its been going on for years. Even the NFL the most professional organisation going have a system in place to try and level the playing field. The GAA will sit and do nothing until its too late.

I don't know what garvaghey to do with it. We have a good system in place for raising funds from supporters and have loans which are being paid back? Whats your point about Garvaghey. Dublin have just build a fracility that dwarfs it

You can replace the word 'build' with 'been given', I think.

Lies. Please call up that centre whatever its called and ask for a full list of teams, ages, gender that have used the pitches and facilities since it opened, let me know how you get on.

And Jinxy its a great facility for Meath teams to use at inter and club level so don't know why you would not be happy with location.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Thy Kingdom Come on October 05, 2016, 12:03:19 PM
The money is per registered player. Not sure how that doesn't show the truth.

I suspect you won't get a response from any Dub.

Show me the figures, the exact figures on registered players vrs other counties.

The primary school coaching would also include no registered players.

DO you think Primary School kids in the country are registered?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Jinxy on October 05, 2016, 12:06:42 PM
The 3 lowest teams there are 3 of the biggest underachievers in recent years in terms of population in Cork, Galway and Kildare. Kerry are doing ok but they have massive revenue from sponsorship and donations. Meath's and Down are two other teams who should be getting better looked after. Tyrone and Donegal are doing very well with limited support but they have good income streams.

how much did the Garvaghey Cebtre cost?

Its an absolute disgrace and its been going on for years. Even the NFL the most professional organisation going have a system in place to try and level the playing field. The GAA will sit and do nothing until its too late.

I don't know what garvaghey to do with it. We have a good system in place for raising funds from supporters and have loans which are being paid back? Whats your point about Garvaghey. Dublin have just build a fracility that dwarfs it

You can replace the word 'build' with 'been given', I think.

Lies. Please call up that centre whatever its called and ask for a full list of teams, ages, gender that have used the pitches and facilities since it opened, let me know how you get on.

And Jinxy its a great facility for Meath teams to use at inter and club level so don't know why you would not be happy with location.

Did Dublin build it?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 05, 2016, 12:19:18 PM
I know it is wrong about Dublin getting so much funding, but are the rest of the county boards so powerless that they can't ask questions as to why not us? Just wondering. Surely it would be no harm in asking for increased funding...

Seemingly Carlow asked for additional funding for football, were turned down as they had got funding for hurling. Money which Carlow I might add have spent very wisely.

Have been highlighting this for years and the pigs have just grunted at me. Wonder will it get any traction now or will we have to wait till Dublin win a Hurling All-Ireland.
Disgraceful. Carlow and every other county should be given as much money as possible to develop both codes if they apply for it. It's a shocking indictment of the GAA. As someone else said, it's appealing that nobody in high places shouted stop.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: The Aristocrat on October 05, 2016, 12:20:53 PM
The 3 lowest teams there are 3 of the biggest underachievers in recent years in terms of population in Cork, Galway and Kildare. Kerry are doing ok but they have massive revenue from sponsorship and donations. Meath's and Down are two other teams who should be getting better looked after. Tyrone and Donegal are doing very well with limited support but they have good income streams.

how much did the Garvaghey Cebtre cost?

Its an absolute disgrace and its been going on for years. Even the NFL the most professional organisation going have a system in place to try and level the playing field. The GAA will sit and do nothing until its too late.

I don't know what garvaghey to do with it. We have a good system in place for raising funds from supporters and have loans which are being paid back? Whats your point about Garvaghey. Dublin have just build a fracility that dwarfs it

You can replace the word 'build' with 'been given', I think.

Lies. Please call up that centre whatever its called and ask for a full list of teams, ages, gender that have used the pitches and facilities since it opened, let me know how you get on.

And Jinxy its a great facility for Meath teams to use at inter and club level so don't know why you would not be happy with location.

Did Dublin build it?

Were Dublin  given it?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: tonto1888 on October 05, 2016, 12:52:23 PM
The 3 lowest teams there are 3 of the biggest underachievers in recent years in terms of population in Cork, Galway and Kildare. Kerry are doing ok but they have massive revenue from sponsorship and donations. Meath's and Down are two other teams who should be getting better looked after. Tyrone and Donegal are doing very well with limited support but they have good income streams.

how much did the Garvaghey Cebtre cost?

Its an absolute disgrace and its been going on for years. Even the NFL the most professional organisation going have a system in place to try and level the playing field. The GAA will sit and do nothing until its too late.

I don't know what garvaghey to do with it. We have a good system in place for raising funds from supporters and have loans which are being paid back? Whats your point about Garvaghey. Dublin have just build a fracility that dwarfs it

my point is it cost over 6million quid. Not exactly peanuts is it
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Michael Schmeichal on October 05, 2016, 12:57:52 PM
The money is per registered player. Not sure how that doesn't show the truth.

I suspect you won't get a response from any Dub.

The lad who tweeted this was asked if it included Juvenile Players. His reply was that he wasn't sure.

I can tell you it doesn't include Juvenile Players which is where Games Development Money is spent. He may as well as measured the money against registered taxidermists for all the relevance it has.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Jinxy on October 05, 2016, 01:05:45 PM
The 3 lowest teams there are 3 of the biggest underachievers in recent years in terms of population in Cork, Galway and Kildare. Kerry are doing ok but they have massive revenue from sponsorship and donations. Meath's and Down are two other teams who should be getting better looked after. Tyrone and Donegal are doing very well with limited support but they have good income streams.

how much did the Garvaghey Cebtre cost?

Its an absolute disgrace and its been going on for years. Even the NFL the most professional organisation going have a system in place to try and level the playing field. The GAA will sit and do nothing until its too late.

I don't know what garvaghey to do with it. We have a good system in place for raising funds from supporters and have loans which are being paid back? Whats your point about Garvaghey. Dublin have just build a fracility that dwarfs it

You can replace the word 'build' with 'been given', I think.

Lies. Please call up that centre whatever its called and ask for a full list of teams, ages, gender that have used the pitches and facilities since it opened, let me know how you get on.

And Jinxy its a great facility for Meath teams to use at inter and club level so don't know why you would not be happy with location.

Did Dublin build it?

Were Dublin  given it?

We'll know when their existing agreements vis a vis training locations have run their course.
The €2 million that was earmarked by the GAA for the Centre of Excellence in Rathcoole has gone into this instead.
The Dubs paid to fit out the gym and have first call on it.
If it's a 'National' centre of excellence why didn't the GAA pay for the gym equipment?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: mup on October 05, 2016, 01:12:51 PM
The 3 lowest teams there are 3 of the biggest underachievers in recent years in terms of population in Cork, Galway and Kildare. Kerry are doing ok but they have massive revenue from sponsorship and donations. Meath's and Down are two other teams who should be getting better looked after. Tyrone and Donegal are doing very well with limited support but they have good income streams.

how much did the Garvaghey Cebtre cost?

Its an absolute disgrace and its been going on for years. Even the NFL the most professional organisation going have a system in place to try and level the playing field. The GAA will sit and do nothing until its too late.

I don't know what garvaghey to do with it. We have a good system in place for raising funds from supporters and have loans which are being paid back? Whats your point about Garvaghey. Dublin have just build a fracility that dwarfs it

You can replace the word 'build' with 'been given', I think.

Lies. Please call up that centre whatever its called and ask for a full list of teams, ages, gender that have used the pitches and facilities since it opened, let me know how you get on.

And Jinxy its a great facility for Meath teams to use at inter and club level so don't know why you would not be happy with location.

Did Dublin build it?

Were Dublin  given it?

We'll know when their existing agreements vis a vis training locations have run their course.
The €2 million that was earmarked by the GAA for the Centre of Excellence in Rathcoole has gone into this instead.
The Dubs paid to fit out the gym and have first call on it.
If it's a 'National' centre of excellence why didn't the GAA pay for the gym equipment?

The fitting out of the gym was overseen by Bryan Cullen.

Did I see him on the Dublin bench on Saturday?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Maroon Manc on October 05, 2016, 01:14:38 PM
'Not for the first time the GAA has found itself defending an apparent bias in funding towards Dublin. Figures released in the 2014 financial report show that Dublin received €1.46 million for games development – more than the other 31 counties combined'

No doubt this will be spun or ignored.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Michael Schmeichal on October 05, 2016, 01:22:51 PM
The 3 lowest teams there are 3 of the biggest underachievers in recent years in terms of population in Cork, Galway and Kildare. Kerry are doing ok but they have massive revenue from sponsorship and donations. Meath's and Down are two other teams who should be getting better looked after. Tyrone and Donegal are doing very well with limited support but they have good income streams.

how much did the Garvaghey Cebtre cost?

Its an absolute disgrace and its been going on for years. Even the NFL the most professional organisation going have a system in place to try and level the playing field. The GAA will sit and do nothing until its too late.

I don't know what garvaghey to do with it. We have a good system in place for raising funds from supporters and have loans which are being paid back? Whats your point about Garvaghey. Dublin have just build a fracility that dwarfs it

You can replace the word 'build' with 'been given', I think.

Lies. Please call up that centre whatever its called and ask for a full list of teams, ages, gender that have used the pitches and facilities since it opened, let me know how you get on.

And Jinxy its a great facility for Meath teams to use at inter and club level so don't know why you would not be happy with location.

Did Dublin build it?

Were Dublin  given it?

We'll know when their existing agreements vis a vis training locations have run their course.
The €2 million that was earmarked by the GAA for the Centre of Excellence in Rathcoole has gone into this instead.
The Dubs paid to fit out the gym and have first call on it.
If it's a 'National' centre of excellence why didn't the GAA pay for the gym equipment?

The fitting out of the gym was overseen by Bryan Cullen.

Did I see him on the Dublin bench on Saturday?

If Dublin Underage or Adult Squads use a pitch in Abootstown for a session they pay €150 for the privilege. They also pay to use the gym. Not sure of the figure but again its the same for any GAA team who wants to use it. There is a little bit of a difference between renting a facility and being given it for free as is being suggested here.

Ewan's own county Kildare could use these facilities more often, only they spent their money on dodgy property deals and renting an empty apartment for Seanie Johnsone for a couple of years, while also keeping him well stocked with hurleys
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Lar Naparka on October 05, 2016, 01:31:45 PM
The money is per registered player. Not sure how that doesn't show the truth.

I suspect you won't get a response from any Dub.

Show me the figures, the exact figures on registered players vrs other counties.

The primary school coaching would also include no registered players.
I really don’t know how many young kids are playing Gaelic football in Dublin but a report (and I’m tired of referring to it) came out in the early 90s.
Central Council had been worries by the high dropout rate of kids in the Dublin area and to compare that with other counties. ( That’s no well put I know but its meaning should be clear enough.)
“Lack of penetration” was the buzz term then.
There was a huge number of very young kids playing at the lowest (youngest) level but the numbers decreased dramatically as the youngsters moved up through the ranks. CC felt that the earlier a kid dropped out, the less the chances f him or her taking part in club activity of any sort. In effect they were being lost to the GAA.
The committee (including Eugene McGee and Colm O’Rourke) reported back that there were five Dublin clubs who each could field more juvenile players that any one of five different counties.
Accepting that there is always a natural fall out rate as kids grow older, the report concluded that the problem was exacerbated in Dublin because superclubs tend to discard players as the number of teams fielded decrease as kids grow older.
Smaller clubs don’t have this problem to the same degree as they don’t start off with the same number of u10s or other very young age groups.
Many kids are forced to drop out against their will and as a result many who leave  bear a resentment to their former clubs. 
As usual, the report was not acted upon but  the problems as outlined have become very much worse.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: mup on October 05, 2016, 01:54:56 PM
The 3 lowest teams there are 3 of the biggest underachievers in recent years in terms of population in Cork, Galway and Kildare. Kerry are doing ok but they have massive revenue from sponsorship and donations. Meath's and Down are two other teams who should be getting better looked after. Tyrone and Donegal are doing very well with limited support but they have good income streams.

how much did the Garvaghey Cebtre cost?

Its an absolute disgrace and its been going on for years. Even the NFL the most professional organisation going have a system in place to try and level the playing field. The GAA will sit and do nothing until its too late.

I don't know what garvaghey to do with it. We have a good system in place for raising funds from supporters and have loans which are being paid back? Whats your point about Garvaghey. Dublin have just build a fracility that dwarfs it

You can replace the word 'build' with 'been given', I think.

Lies. Please call up that centre whatever its called and ask for a full list of teams, ages, gender that have used the pitches and facilities since it opened, let me know how you get on.

And Jinxy its a great facility for Meath teams to use at inter and club level so don't know why you would not be happy with location.

Did Dublin build it?

Were Dublin  given it?

We'll know when their existing agreements vis a vis training locations have run their course.
The €2 million that was earmarked by the GAA for the Centre of Excellence in Rathcoole has gone into this instead.
The Dubs paid to fit out the gym and have first call on it.
If it's a 'National' centre of excellence why didn't the GAA pay for the gym equipment?

The fitting out of the gym was overseen by Bryan Cullen.

Did I see him on the Dublin bench on Saturday?

If Dublin Underage or Adult Squads use a pitch in Abootstown for a session they pay €150 for the privilege. They also pay to use the gym. Not sure of the figure but again its the same for any GAA team who wants to use it. There is a little bit of a difference between renting a facility and being given it for free as is being suggested here.

Ewan's own county Kildare could use these facilities more often, only they spent their money on dodgy property deals and renting an empty apartment for Seanie Johnsone for a couple of years, while also keeping him well stocked with hurleys

You are not really one to start pontificating on Seanie Johnson type transfers considering the make-up of the Dublin u21 panel this year.

Considering how the Dubs profess how great their county board are, how did they not have the foresight to build their own centre of excellence like most other counties have?

But sure why would they.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Hound on October 05, 2016, 02:06:51 PM
I really don’t know how many young kids are playing Gaelic football in Dublin but a report (and I’m tired of referring to it) came out in the early 90s.
Central Council had been worries by the high dropout rate of kids in the Dublin area and to compare that with other counties. ( That’s no well put I know but its meaning should be clear enough.)
“Lack of penetration” was the buzz term then.
There was a huge number of very young kids playing at the lowest (youngest) level but the numbers decreased dramatically as the youngsters moved up through the ranks. CC felt that the earlier a kid dropped out, the less the chances f him or her taking part in club activity of any sort. In effect they were being lost to the GAA.
The committee (including Eugene McGee and Colm O’Rourke) reported back that there were five Dublin clubs who each could field more juvenile players that any one of five different counties.
Accepting that there is always a natural fall out rate as kids grow older, the report concluded that the problem was exacerbated in Dublin because superclubs tend to discard players as the number of teams fielded decrease as kids grow older.
Smaller clubs don’t have this problem to the same degree as they don’t start off with the same number of u10s or other very young age groups.
Many kids are forced to drop out against their will and as a result many who leave  bear a resentment to their former clubs. 
As usual, the report was not acted upon but  the problems as outlined have become very much worse.
From my experience, these GPO's that are with most Dublin clubs spend most of their time in primary schools trying to win the battle for youngsters v soccer and rugby. They'll take a regular PE class during school time and teach basic skills to junior/senior infants and encourage them to join the club.

My lad has been with the local GAA club for 6 years has received 2 training sessions at the club from the GPO in that time. (I know they do help arrange the Cul Camp / Summer Camp thingy for 2 different weeks in the summer, but my lad won't go to them.)
 
From my club's point of view there is a debate each year about whether the cost of the GPO is worth it. (I thought it was the same for any club, that if you put up 50% of the cost, central coffers would fund the rest?). As you can imagine there is plenty of giving out about someone getting paid versus the rest of us volunteers. We've had 3 different GPOs in my time, the first was absolutely useless, the second a complete headcase. The third seems a bit better, although I haven't seen much of him and he's never been at a training session or match involving my son's team.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Maroon Manc on October 05, 2016, 02:24:49 PM
I really don’t know how many young kids are playing Gaelic football in Dublin but a report (and I’m tired of referring to it) came out in the early 90s.
Central Council had been worries by the high dropout rate of kids in the Dublin area and to compare that with other counties. ( That’s no well put I know but its meaning should be clear enough.)
“Lack of penetration” was the buzz term then.
There was a huge number of very young kids playing at the lowest (youngest) level but the numbers decreased dramatically as the youngsters moved up through the ranks. CC felt that the earlier a kid dropped out, the less the chances f him or her taking part in club activity of any sort. In effect they were being lost to the GAA.
The committee (including Eugene McGee and Colm O’Rourke) reported back that there were five Dublin clubs who each could field more juvenile players that any one of five different counties.
Accepting that there is always a natural fall out rate as kids grow older, the report concluded that the problem was exacerbated in Dublin because superclubs tend to discard players as the number of teams fielded decrease as kids grow older.
Smaller clubs don’t have this problem to the same degree as they don’t start off with the same number of u10s or other very young age groups.
Many kids are forced to drop out against their will and as a result many who leave  bear a resentment to their former clubs. 
As usual, the report was not acted upon but  the problems as outlined have become very much worse.
From my experience, these GPO's that are with most Dublin clubs spend most of their time in primary schools trying to win the battle for youngsters v soccer and rugby. They'll take a regular PE class during school time and teach basic skills to junior/senior infants and encourage them to join the club.

My lad has been with the local GAA club for 6 years has received 2 training sessions at the club from the GPO in that time. (I know they do help arrange the Cul Camp / Summer Camp thingy for 2 different weeks in the summer, but my lad won't go to them.)
 
From my club's point of view there is a debate each year about whether the cost of the GPO is worth it. (I thought it was the same for any club, that if you put up 50% of the cost, central coffers would fund the rest?). As you can imagine there is plenty of giving out about someone getting paid versus the rest of us volunteers. We've had 3 different GPOs in my time, the first was absolutely useless, the second a complete headcase. The third seems a bit better, although I haven't seen much of him and he's never been at a training session or match involving my son's team.

I don't doubt any of that but surely you can see why the rest of us think  its grossly unfair why your county is benefiting from a huge percentage of the funding?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: muppet on October 05, 2016, 02:47:23 PM
That article wasn't a criticism of Dublin. If the GAA offers that money to any other county would they refuse it? Hardly.

The criticism was directed squarely at the GAA. The solution is a well thought out motion to congress, to level the playing field, and not to keep moaning about it.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: larryin89 on October 05, 2016, 06:11:41 PM
That article wasn't a criticism of Dublin. If the GAA offers that money to any other county would they refuse it? Hardly.

The criticism was directed squarely at the GAA. The solution is a well thought out motion to congress, to level the playing field, and not to keep moaning about it.

Who is the GAA ? Do you really believe that its as simple as that. The absolute cronyism in all this is ridiculous. The extent of funding  difference dublin have compared to others when everything is accounted for is f**king mind boggling, its incredible , a different world.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Lar Naparka on October 05, 2016, 07:20:21 PM
I really don’t know how many young kids are playing Gaelic football in Dublin but a report (and I’m tired of referring to it) came out in the early 90s.
Central Council had been worries by the high dropout rate of kids in the Dublin area and to compare that with other counties. ( That’s no well put I know but its meaning should be clear enough.)
“Lack of penetration” was the buzz term then.
There was a huge number of very young kids playing at the lowest (youngest) level but the numbers decreased dramatically as the youngsters moved up through the ranks. CC felt that the earlier a kid dropped out, the less the chances f him or her taking part in club activity of any sort. In effect they were being lost to the GAA.
The committee (including Eugene McGee and Colm O’Rourke) reported back that there were five Dublin clubs who each could field more juvenile players that any one of five different counties.
Accepting that there is always a natural fall out rate as kids grow older, the report concluded that the problem was exacerbated in Dublin because superclubs tend to discard players as the number of teams fielded decrease as kids grow older.
Smaller clubs don’t have this problem to the same degree as they don’t start off with the same number of u10s or other very young age groups.
Many kids are forced to drop out against their will and as a result many who leave  bear a resentment to their former clubs. 
As usual, the report was not acted upon but  the problems as outlined have become very much worse.
From my experience, these GPO's that are with most Dublin clubs spend most of their time in primary schools trying to win the battle for youngsters v soccer and rugby. They'll take a regular PE class during school time and teach basic skills to junior/senior infants and encourage them to join the club.

My lad has been with the local GAA club for 6 years has received 2 training sessions at the club from the GPO in that time. (I know they do help arrange the Cul Camp / Summer Camp thingy for 2 different weeks in the summer, but my lad won't go to them.)
 
From my club's point of view there is a debate each year about whether the cost of the GPO is worth it. (I thought it was the same for any club, that if you put up 50% of the cost, central coffers would fund the rest?). As you can imagine there is plenty of giving out about someone getting paid versus the rest of us volunteers. We've had 3 different GPOs in my time, the first was absolutely useless, the second a complete headcase. The third seems a bit better, although I haven't seen much of him and he's never been at a training session or match involving my son's team.
I thought that in the Dublin area the policy was for the GPO to coach the coaches, as it were and to see that  a uniform coaching system was used throughout the club. I think the idea is that each club availing of the services of A GPO would supply another to be paid by the club.
I don't know if the scheme is well-implemented or not as I don't have a direct link to any club anymore. But when the practice of employing coaches was introduced, one of my ex-pupils was selected and he told me that what he was getting was the equivalent of what would be paid to anyone on a Fás course at the time.


Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: IolarCoisCuain on October 05, 2016, 08:26:59 PM
There has been 42 other threads on this, no need for a new one. Those figures don't show truth in my opinion.

If someone has the stats of how many 7 to 18 years old play in Dublin compared to the rest of the counties please?

Anyway greatest thing Dublin have done, its great to give the resources to the children of the city to promote our national game. Well done Dublin county board.

With 42 other threads on this, would the stats of how many 7 to 18 years old play in Dublin not be in at least one of them, your Grace?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: redhandefender on October 05, 2016, 09:57:43 PM
The 3 lowest teams there are 3 of the biggest underachievers in recent years in terms of population in Cork, Galway and Kildare. Kerry are doing ok but they have massive revenue from sponsorship and donations. Meath's and Down are two other teams who should be getting better looked after. Tyrone and Donegal are doing very well with limited support but they have good income streams.

how much did the Garvaghey Cebtre cost?

Its an absolute disgrace and its been going on for years. Even the NFL the most professional organisation going have a system in place to try and level the playing field. The GAA will sit and do nothing until its too late.

I don't know what garvaghey to do with it. We have a good system in place for raising funds from supporters and have loans which are being paid back? Whats your point about Garvaghey. Dublin have just build a fracility that dwarfs it

my point is it cost over 6million quid. Not exactly peanuts is it


Of course its not peanuts. We are lights years ahead of most in respect of getting our own funding due to ground breaking intitiatives put in place by key people in late 90's. It is easy building funding during the good times which we did do and invested wisely. Its a bigger struggle every year now.

We get very little from the gaa as the stats show. In any event i am not on about tyrone i am on about less successful counties whoi need money and guidance from the gaa if we want to keep this competitive.

The gAA need dublin but dublin need the gaa and its all one way at the minute. Where is the joy in winning a one horse race. I suspect most of your fans who are plastic down care but the true gaa fans will see where this is going
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: The Aristocrat on October 06, 2016, 08:23:14 AM
There has been 42 other threads on this, no need for a new one. Those figures don't show truth in my opinion.

If someone has the stats of how many 7 to 18 years old play in Dublin compared to the rest of the counties please?

Anyway greatest thing Dublin have done, its great to give the resources to the children of the city to promote our national game. Well done Dublin county board.

With 42 other threads on this, would the stats of how many 7 to 18 years old play in Dublin not be in at least one of them, your Grace?

Unfortunately all the other threads are full of incorrect stats, ignorant posters, people who don't live in Dublin or surrounding areas, not members of Dublin clubs or have children in Dublin clubs and also their hate for Dublin blinds them to the truth and are blind to the true reality on the ground in Dublin. My mate is a GDO, I asked him what he did, il transfer to this later today but gives a good insight to what he does and it mainly focuses around primary schools. Its really a great initiative to get children interested in our national games in the countries biggest cosmopolitan areas of the capital.

Best to ignore spoofers and liars like Spewan McKenna. All he cares about is posting on twitter and slating Dublin, not just on finances but all targets individual players, look at his tweets during the match itself. Never heard him write about McGeeney's extraordinary wages when st Kildare when players had to fund raise to fund their own Gym and in some cases help build it.

Any gentlemen enjoy the winter. Time to focus on the real GAA which is club championship.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: mup on October 06, 2016, 08:38:52 AM
There has been 42 other threads on this, no need for a new one. Those figures don't show truth in my opinion.

If someone has the stats of how many 7 to 18 years old play in Dublin compared to the rest of the counties please?

Anyway greatest thing Dublin have done, its great to give the resources to the children of the city to promote our national game. Well done Dublin county board.

With 42 other threads on this, would the stats of how many 7 to 18 years old play in Dublin not be in at least one of them, your Grace?

Unfortunately all the other threads are full of incorrect stats, ignorant posters, people who don't live in Dublin or surrounding areas, not members of Dublin clubs or have children in Dublin clubs and also their hate for Dublin blinds them to the truth and are blind to the true reality on the ground in Dublin. My mate is a GDO, I asked him what he did, il transfer to this later today but gives a good insight to what he does and it mainly focuses around primary schools. Its really a great initiative to get children interested in our national games in the countries biggest cosmopolitan areas of the capital.

Best to ignore spoofers and liars like Spewan McKenna. All he cares about is posting on twitter and slating Dublin, not just on finances but all targets individual players, look at his tweets during the match itself. Never heard him write about McGeeney's extraordinary wages when st Kildare when players had to fund raise to fund their own Gym and in some cases help build it.

Any gentlemen enjoy the winter. Time to focus on the real GAA which is club championship.

Ok I'm going to ask you this once more. I'm a Kildare man and I'm not aware of how much McGeeneys extraordinary wages when he was in Kildare.

Can you provide a link and proof of how much he was supposedly on?

Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: ashman on October 06, 2016, 08:44:28 AM
To be fair to the GAA they realised that the financial health of the association was inextricably linked to having a strong Dublin football team .  It meant big CP crowds , glamour etc.  They channeled those resources accordingly .   

Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: The Aristocrat on October 06, 2016, 08:46:37 AM
There has been 42 other threads on this, no need for a new one. Those figures don't show truth in my opinion.

If someone has the stats of how many 7 to 18 years old play in Dublin compared to the rest of the counties please?

Anyway greatest thing Dublin have done, its great to give the resources to the children of the city to promote our national game. Well done Dublin county board.

With 42 other threads on this, would the stats of how many 7 to 18 years old play in Dublin not be in at least one of them, your Grace?

Unfortunately all the other threads are full of incorrect stats, ignorant posters, people who don't live in Dublin or surrounding areas, not members of Dublin clubs or have children in Dublin clubs and also their hate for Dublin blinds them to the truth and are blind to the true reality on the ground in Dublin. My mate is a GDO, I asked him what he did, il transfer to this later today but gives a good insight to what he does and it mainly focuses around primary schools. Its really a great initiative to get children interested in our national games in the countries biggest cosmopolitan areas of the capital.

Best to ignore spoofers and liars like Spewan McKenna. All he cares about is posting on twitter and slating Dublin, not just on finances but all targets individual players, look at his tweets during the match itself. Never heard him write about McGeeney's extraordinary wages when st Kildare when players had to fund raise to fund their own Gym and in some cases help build it.

Any gentlemen enjoy the winter. Time to focus on the real GAA which is club championship.

Ok I'm going to ask you this once more. I'm a Kildare man and I'm not aware of how much McGeeneys extraordinary wages when he was in Kildare.

Can you provide a link and proof of how much he was supposedly on?

Did no one ask him at the Croke Park legends tour ?  ;)

If you want to know ask Kildare County board to open the books but doubt that will happen as they would be terrified of what people would see.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: mup on October 06, 2016, 08:57:55 AM
There has been 42 other threads on this, no need for a new one. Those figures don't show truth in my opinion.

If someone has the stats of how many 7 to 18 years old play in Dublin compared to the rest of the counties please?

Anyway greatest thing Dublin have done, its great to give the resources to the children of the city to promote our national game. Well done Dublin county board.

With 42 other threads on this, would the stats of how many 7 to 18 years old play in Dublin not be in at least one of them, your Grace?

Unfortunately all the other threads are full of incorrect stats, ignorant posters, people who don't live in Dublin or surrounding areas, not members of Dublin clubs or have children in Dublin clubs and also their hate for Dublin blinds them to the truth and are blind to the true reality on the ground in Dublin. My mate is a GDO, I asked him what he did, il transfer to this later today but gives a good insight to what he does and it mainly focuses around primary schools. Its really a great initiative to get children interested in our national games in the countries biggest cosmopolitan areas of the capital.

Best to ignore spoofers and liars like Spewan McKenna. All he cares about is posting on twitter and slating Dublin, not just on finances but all targets individual players, look at his tweets during the match itself. Never heard him write about McGeeney's extraordinary wages when st Kildare when players had to fund raise to fund their own Gym and in some cases help build it.

Any gentlemen enjoy the winter. Time to focus on the real GAA which is club championship.

Ok I'm going to ask you this once more. I'm a Kildare man and I'm not aware of how much McGeeneys extraordinary wages when he was in Kildare.

Can you provide a link and proof of how much he was supposedly on?

Did no one ask him at the Croke Park legends tour ?  ;)

If you want to know ask Kildare County board to open the books but doubt that will happen as they would be terrified of what people would see.

I'm asking you because you made the allegation.

Or are you just like your old foe 'Spewan' - a spoofer and a liar.

Can you provide the figures or not?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: ashman on October 06, 2016, 08:58:23 AM
The Kildare Co Board finances are a separate issue and has a "look over there " element to it.  The bottom line is that a grossly disproportionate amount of money has been pumped in to Dublin by HQ.  The money was put in as people thought there would be a "dividend".  To be honest imho it might be one of the least significant of the great many advantages Dublin now have .
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: ashman on October 06, 2016, 09:00:06 AM
The Spewan things is unfunny , childish and playing the man . Fwiw I would not be a massive fan of EMK.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: macdanger2 on October 06, 2016, 09:01:00 AM
There has been 42 other threads on this, no need for a new one. Those figures don't show truth in my opinion.

If someone has the stats of how many 7 to 18 years old play in Dublin compared to the rest of the counties please?

Anyway greatest thing Dublin have done, its great to give the resources to the children of the city to promote our national game. Well done Dublin county board.

With 42 other threads on this, would the stats of how many 7 to 18 years old play in Dublin not be in at least one of them, your Grace?

Unfortunately all the other threads are full of incorrect stats, ignorant posters, people who don't live in Dublin or surrounding areas, not members of Dublin clubs or have children in Dublin clubs and also their hate for Dublin blinds them to the truth and are blind to the true reality on the ground in Dublin. My mate is a GDO, I asked him what he did, il transfer to this later today but gives a good insight to what he does and it mainly focuses around primary schools. Its really a great initiative to get children interested in our national games in the countries biggest cosmopolitan areas of the capital.

In fairness, I think that's what most people's idea of a GDOs. The net effect of what you describe though is that more young players join clubs and that filters up to the county team.  I understand the idea of it in the wider context of dublin being a big "battleground" for the GAA against rugby/soccer but they should try spreading out the spending a bit more to create a bit of balance.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: tonto1888 on October 06, 2016, 09:04:20 AM
The 3 lowest teams there are 3 of the biggest underachievers in recent years in terms of population in Cork, Galway and Kildare. Kerry are doing ok but they have massive revenue from sponsorship and donations. Meath's and Down are two other teams who should be getting better looked after. Tyrone and Donegal are doing very well with limited support but they have good income streams.

how much did the Garvaghey Cebtre cost?

Its an absolute disgrace and its been going on for years. Even the NFL the most professional organisation going have a system in place to try and level the playing field. The GAA will sit and do nothing until its too late.

I don't know what garvaghey to do with it. We have a good system in place for raising funds from supporters and have loans which are being paid back? Whats your point about Garvaghey. Dublin have just build a fracility that dwarfs it

my point is it cost over 6million quid. Not exactly peanuts is it


Of course its not peanuts. We are lights years ahead of most in respect of getting our own funding due to ground breaking intitiatives put in place by key people in late 90's. It is easy building funding during the good times which we did do and invested wisely. Its a bigger struggle every year now.

We get very little from the gaa as the stats show. In any event i am not on about tyrone i am on about less successful counties whoi need money and guidance from the gaa if we want to keep this competitive.

The gAA need dublin but dublin need the gaa and its all one way at the minute. Where is the joy in winning a one horse race. I suspect most of your fans who are plastic down care but the true gaa fans will see where this is going

fair enough, i was reading there and seen a lot of it was self funding and not handouts, thats great.
And, Im from Armagh although we have had our fair share of plastic fans in the past
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Maroon Manc on October 06, 2016, 11:07:30 AM
So one county accounts for over 50% of the GDO funding but the rest of us who think this is unfair are just ignorant.  ;D
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on October 06, 2016, 11:47:19 AM
I really don’t know how many young kids are playing Gaelic football in Dublin but a report (and I’m tired of referring to it) came out in the early 90s.
Central Council had been worries by the high dropout rate of kids in the Dublin area and to compare that with other counties. ( That’s no well put I know but its meaning should be clear enough.)
“Lack of penetration” was the buzz term then.
There was a huge number of very young kids playing at the lowest (youngest) level but the numbers decreased dramatically as the youngsters moved up through the ranks. CC felt that the earlier a kid dropped out, the less the chances f him or her taking part in club activity of any sort. In effect they were being lost to the GAA.
The committee (including Eugene McGee and Colm O’Rourke) reported back that there were five Dublin clubs who each could field more juvenile players that any one of five different counties.
Accepting that there is always a natural fall out rate as kids grow older, the report concluded that the problem was exacerbated in Dublin because superclubs tend to discard players as the number of teams fielded decrease as kids grow older.
Smaller clubs don’t have this problem to the same degree as they don’t start off with the same number of u10s or other very young age groups.
Many kids are forced to drop out against their will and as a result many who leave  bear a resentment to their former clubs. 
As usual, the report was not acted upon but  the problems as outlined have become very much worse.
From my experience, these GPO's that are with most Dublin clubs spend most of their time in primary schools trying to win the battle for youngsters v soccer and rugby. They'll take a regular PE class during school time and teach basic skills to junior/senior infants and encourage them to join the club.

My lad has been with the local GAA club for 6 years has received 2 training sessions at the club from the GPO in that time. (I know they do help arrange the Cul Camp / Summer Camp thingy for 2 different weeks in the summer, but my lad won't go to them.)
 
From my club's point of view there is a debate each year about whether the cost of the GPO is worth it. (I thought it was the same for any club, that if you put up 50% of the cost, central coffers would fund the rest?). As you can imagine there is plenty of giving out about someone getting paid versus the rest of us volunteers. We've had 3 different GPOs in my time, the first was absolutely useless, the second a complete headcase. The third seems a bit better, although I haven't seen much of him and he's never been at a training session or match involving my son's team.

The GPOs in Dublin are in the main with the larger clubs and that in itself means they have multiple primary schools to get around to. In the clubs themselves, they mainly concentrate on running the coaching courses in the club, the camps during the summer and overseeing the nurseries on Saturday mornings. I've seen them help out with fitness tests with the various teams in the clubs too and they can be lent on to coach one of the senior teams if they are fresh in the door. They usually have other employment/studies on the go as well.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Maroon Manc on October 06, 2016, 12:07:46 PM
I think the GDO's and how they work just isn't working. Looking from the outside it just seems an attempt at the GAA to get kids interested in the sport and keep them away from other sports in Dublin.  I don't think its much as an advantage to Dublin as many are making out; The money would be better spent elsewhere.

We have a GDO over here, he's a brilliant coach and great at his job but I think we'd all benefit a lot more if the money was given directly to the clubs.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: ballinaman on October 06, 2016, 12:15:57 PM
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Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: westbound on October 06, 2016, 12:32:42 PM
That's a good graphic ballinaman.

There is also another (probably more relevant) graphic of the breakdown of spending per registered player (or club member - I can't quite remember which).
Can you put up that one too?

Thanks
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: The Aristocrat on October 06, 2016, 12:34:37 PM
A picture of Ireland with some numbers on it, wow, show me signed off audited accounts and expenses and wages for all councils and county boards, then we can have a discussion.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 06, 2016, 12:40:16 PM
A picture of Ireland with some numbers on it, wow, show me signed off audited accounts and expenses and wages for all councils and county boards, then we can have a discussion.
Read the top of the graph. More than numbers there.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: The Aristocrat on October 06, 2016, 12:47:08 PM
A picture of Ireland with some numbers on it, wow, show me signed off audited accounts and expenses and wages for all councils and county boards, then we can have a discussion.
Read the top of the graph. More than numbers there.

I did, what official signed off accounts did this come from. There is no letterhead or logo at the top. And its just a basic graph that shows Dublin got more, of course Dublin gets the most funding, there is a thing called a capital city and within this city usually contains a large population, schools, clubs, etc.

Lets discuss the mismanagement of finances of county boards over the last 20 years? Might start a new thread on it and include why no plan or vision put forward ever by some county boards.!!
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: mup on October 06, 2016, 01:11:18 PM
A picture of Ireland with some numbers on it, wow, show me signed off audited accounts and expenses and wages for all councils and county boards, then we can have a discussion.

Are you going to provide me with a link to Kieran McGeeneys payments or not while in Kildare because I would really like to know?

Or are you being found out like you were on another thread?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: ballinaman on October 06, 2016, 01:31:56 PM
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Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Lar Naparka on October 06, 2016, 03:05:55 PM
Ewan McKenna is bang on the button!
The fact that for every €2.63 spent on youth development in Mayo from central funds, Dublin gets €11.73 should be cause enough for unease. This massive imbalance of resources cannot be sustained long term. Galway fares out even worse than Mayo. Indeed all along the western seaboard the counties that need the most receive the least.
For me, McKenna did not go far enough.
The advantages of having superclubs so big that they have more juvenile players than, Roscommon, Sligo, Fermanagh, Leitrim or Cavan ( and that was more than 20 years ago) are obvious enough.
But there are massive downsides also and eventually it will be become apparent to all, bar the circle-the-wagon school of logic, that what the CC is doing will be counter productive.

For example, a large club that will have no difficulty in attracting u8s or 9s will have to let the majority of them go by the time they are old enough to player minor.
There many be 8 or 9 grades of competition at younger levels but the number decreases as youngsters move up through the age levels.
ASFAIK, there are only two grades at minor level; u18A and u8B. (I am not aware of any u18c grade but I may well be wrong on that.
So,  the GAA/Dublin County Board policy is to attract kids at an early age, provide them with the best facilities and coaching available and  then turf them out on a gradual basis as they get older.
I think it’s a no-brainer to say that the earlier a juvenile is forced to drop out of GAA  activities, the less likely he is to retain an attachment with club he had been involved with.
If, say, there were four medium-sized clubs in an area, there could be at least four times as many u18s engaged in competitive football as there would be in a single super sized one.
Put anyway you like, whatever the present policy of youth development may be, it benefits nobody.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: tonto1888 on October 06, 2016, 03:29:08 PM
the capital grants one, is that how much moneyu each county has received in capital grants? ie Tyrone has received over twice what Armagh has?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: westbound on October 06, 2016, 04:24:22 PM
Thanks Ballinaman.

IMO the most important piece of information is the € per registered gaa player.

In the years 2010 - 2014 Dublin got €274.7 per registered player.
The next nearest to that is Fermanagh with €68.7.

That means in the 4 years, Dublin got AT LEAST 4 TIMES MORE PER PLAYER than any other county.

Mayo, Tyrone and Kerry all got around the €20 per player mark. That is approximately one twelfth of what Dublin received per player!
They are doing well to be getting anywhere even close to competitive with Dublin at that rate!
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Jinxy on October 06, 2016, 06:27:08 PM
Ewan McKenna is bang on the button!
The fact that for every €2.63 spent on youth development in Mayo from central funds, Dublin gets €11.73 should be cause enough for unease. This massive imbalance of resources cannot be sustained long term. Galway fares out even worse than Mayo. Indeed all along the western seaboard the counties that need the most receive the least.
For me, McKenna did not go far enough.
The advantages of having superclubs so big that they have more juvenile players than, Roscommon, Sligo, Fermanagh, Leitrim or Cavan ( and that was more than 20 years ago) are obvious enough.
But there are massive downsides also and eventually it will be become apparent to all, bar the circle-the-wagon school of logic, that what the CC is doing will be counter productive.

For example, a large club that will have no difficulty in attracting u8s or 9s will have to let the majority of them go by the time they are old enough to player minor.
There many be 8 or 9 grades of competition at younger levels but the number decreases as youngsters move up through the age levels.
ASFAIK, there are only two grades at minor level; u18A and u8B. (I am not aware of any u18c grade but I may well be wrong on that.
So,  the GAA/Dublin County Board policy is to attract kids at an early age, provide them with the best facilities and coaching available and  then turf them out on a gradual basis as they get older.
I think it’s a no-brainer to say that the earlier a juvenile is forced to drop out of GAA  activities, the less likely he is to retain an attachment with club he had been involved with.
If, say, there were four medium-sized clubs in an area, there could be at least four times as many u18s engaged in competitive football as there would be in a single super sized one.
Put anyway you like, whatever the present policy of youth development may be, it benefits nobody.

Time to split Ballyboden in two.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on October 07, 2016, 11:38:39 AM
Ewan McKenna is bang on the button!
The fact that for every €2.63 spent on youth development in Mayo from central funds, Dublin gets €11.73 should be cause enough for unease. This massive imbalance of resources cannot be sustained long term. Galway fares out even worse than Mayo. Indeed all along the western seaboard the counties that need the most receive the least.
For me, McKenna did not go far enough.
The advantages of having superclubs so big that they have more juvenile players than, Roscommon, Sligo, Fermanagh, Leitrim or Cavan ( and that was more than 20 years ago) are obvious enough.
But there are massive downsides also and eventually it will be become apparent to all, bar the circle-the-wagon school of logic, that what the CC is doing will be counter productive.

For example, a large club that will have no difficulty in attracting u8s or 9s will have to let the majority of them go by the time they are old enough to player minor.
There many be 8 or 9 grades of competition at younger levels but the number decreases as youngsters move up through the age levels.
ASFAIK, there are only two grades at minor level; u18A and u8B. (I am not aware of any u18c grade but I may well be wrong on that.
So,  the GAA/Dublin County Board policy is to attract kids at an early age, provide them with the best facilities and coaching available and  then turf them out on a gradual basis as they get older.
I think it’s a no-brainer to say that the earlier a juvenile is forced to drop out of GAA  activities, the less likely he is to retain an attachment with club he had been involved with.
If, say, there were four medium-sized clubs in an area, there could be at least four times as many u18s engaged in competitive football as there would be in a single super sized one.
Put anyway you like, whatever the present policy of youth development may be, it benefits nobody.

Time to split Ballyboden in two.

Ballyboden already has two, the catchment area could easily take another two clubs though if there was any green areas to put them in
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: FermGael on October 07, 2016, 11:43:17 AM
The real solution is to split Fermanagh
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Lar Naparka on October 07, 2016, 05:32:40 PM
The real solution is to split Fermanagh
I thought it was already split.
According to Peter McGinnity, one half is lakes and the other half is Protestants. ;D
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: The Aristocrat on October 16, 2016, 04:40:07 AM
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/toms-s-the-counties-whining-about-dublins-advantages-are-missing-the-point-entirely-35132361.html

Let's get something straight here though. This Dublin team is a special group and that's not down to money or the number of coaches in the city. Think about when Stephen Cluxton quits or Cian O'Sullivan quits or Bernard Brogan, Paul Flynn or Michael Darragh Macauley.....we're talking once-off players here.

Do you honestly believe that there'll just be some seamless kind of hand-over to men of a similar standard? If you do, can I ask you what's the weather like in Cloud Cuckoo Land?

Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Lar Naparka on October 16, 2016, 01:38:22 PM
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/toms-s-the-counties-whining-about-dublins-advantages-are-missing-the-point-entirely-35132361.html

Let's get something straight here though. This Dublin team is a special group and that's not down to money or the number of coaches in the city. Think about when Stephen Cluxton quits or Cian O'Sullivan quits or Bernard Brogan, Paul Flynn or Michael Darragh Macauley.....we're talking once-off players here.

Do you honestly believe that there'll just be some seamless kind of hand-over to men of a similar standard? If you do, can I ask you what's the weather like in Cloud Cuckoo Land?


Oh for Christ’s sake, here we go again! ;D ;D
It’s more or less as follows..

This Dublin team is a special group and that's not down to money or the number of coaches in the county. Think about when Stephen Cluxton quits or Cian O'Sullivan quits or Bernard Brogan, Paul Flynn or Michael Darragh Macauley.....we're talking once-off players here.

Do you honestly believe that there'll just be some seamless kind of hand-over to men of a similar standard? If you do, can I ask you what's the weather like in Cloud Cuckoo Land?

Following the line of logic here, Dublin’s present (extremely talented) side just got their act together around 2010-2011 and the reason why they are so good had nothing to do with the fact that almost one in three of the population of the Republic live there.
All the coaches they have and the money they have has nothing to do with their recent run of success and the fact that none of their players has to clock up around 1.000 km a week to attend training sessions is merely coincidental.

Etc. etc….the spiel goes on and on…

It would appear that Dublin is just lucky to have such a bunch of talented players now as Kerry had in the late 70s or Kilkenny hurlers had in recent years and it’s down to culchie hoors like me that Dublin aren’t accepted as a normal county which just happens to have a talented side. Once Berno and Clucko and Diarmo and Ciano and Uncle Tom Cobbley and all  hang up their boots, all will return to normal once more.

Anyone who swallows that taurine excrement is indeed living in Cloud Cuckoo Land!
In 2010 Meath put five past Clucko, winning by 11 points in the process.
Yet, the following year with most of the ‘10 team still on board, Dublin went all the way to the top.

So cart horses morphed into thoroughbreds in a single season< of their own accord!

The fact that the County Board felt they were humiliated and decided to get their act together, hence the “Blue Flag” initiative, had nothing to do  with the dramatic turnabout upsurge in Dublin’s football fortunes.

Tomás and his likes may well spout that that there is no a well-oiled conveyor belt of talent coming through to replace the present players.

McCaffrey, McCarthy, Fenton, Kilkenny, Cooper,  Costello, Small etc. just materialised out of nowhere like Stephen Hawking’s theory of Creation?

WTF does he think he’s codding??

Look, I have nothing personal against Jim Gavin, a true gent, or his team as they are doing what any other county would do if they had the same resources. But, FFS, stop the hypocrisy of pretence that Dublin are just like any other side and that Professionalism and Science all along with unlimited backup resources mean nothing at all.

How many All Irelands have been won to date by Leitrim, Sligo or ,say, Carlow. I mean if money and the most professional set up this side of the Alamo count for nothing, how come any of the above never won one yet?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: larryin89 on October 16, 2016, 01:55:59 PM
Would dublin have won the all they have these last few years on Leitrims budget?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Tony Baloney on October 16, 2016, 02:33:00 PM
Would dublin have won the all they have these last few years on Leitrims budget?
No. Carry on.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on October 16, 2016, 02:42:10 PM
Would dublin have won the all they have these last few years on Leitrims budget?

Would Mayo have made it to all those finals in recent years if they operated on Carlow's budget?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: armaghniac on October 16, 2016, 02:50:53 PM
If Dublin have the population of  a province then they would be expected to have the same number of talented players as a province.  Claiming that a few good players just happened to come along is an insult to our intelligence.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Lar Naparka on October 16, 2016, 03:18:06 PM
Would dublin have won the all they have these last few years on Leitrims budget?

Would Mayo have made it to all those finals in recent years if they operated on Carlow's budget?
Of course they wouldn't but if you were to believe Tomás ÓSé , they could well have, since having loads of money and a set up that many Premierships clubs would die for, doesn't, make any difference.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: larryin89 on October 16, 2016, 03:29:02 PM
Would dublin have won the all they have these last few years on Leitrims budget?
No. Carry on.

Carry on.

It simply rubbishes the narrative of Dublin have a unique team who are so special that money and resources have nothing to do with their success.

They had an edge in last years semi reply because they had an excellent recovery prog inbetween the two games whilst we didnt have such a prog because of resources and logistical problems with our bucks scattered all over the country. Why is there such a reluctance to accept the reality.its not an excuse its just the truth.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: gammysolo on October 16, 2016, 03:55:44 PM
Would dublin have won the all they have these last few years on Leitrims budget?

Would Mayo have made it to all those finals in recent years if they operated on Carlow's budget?

Donie Buckley and Tony McEntee salaries were more than Carlow budget.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: gammysolo on October 16, 2016, 04:02:21 PM
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/toms-s-the-counties-whining-about-dublins-advantages-are-missing-the-point-entirely-35132361.html

Let's get something straight here though. This Dublin team is a special group and that's not down to money or the number of coaches in the city. Think about when Stephen Cluxton quits or Cian O'Sullivan quits or Bernard Brogan, Paul Flynn or Michael Darragh Macauley.....we're talking once-off players here.

Do you honestly believe that there'll just be some seamless kind of hand-over to men of a similar standard? If you do, can I ask you what's the weather like in Cloud Cuckoo Land?


Oh for Christ’s sake, here we go again! ;D ;D
It’s more or less as follows..

This Dublin team is a special group and that's not down to money or the number of coaches in the county. Think about when Stephen Cluxton quits or Cian O'Sullivan quits or Bernard Brogan, Paul Flynn or Michael Darragh Macauley.....we're talking once-off players here.

Do you honestly believe that there'll just be some seamless kind of hand-over to men of a similar standard? If you do, can I ask you what's the weather like in Cloud Cuckoo Land?

Following the line of logic here, Dublin’s present (extremely talented) side just got their act together around 2010-2011 and the reason why they are so good had nothing to do with the fact that almost one in three of the population of the Republic live there.
All the coaches they have and the money they have has nothing to do with their recent run of success and the fact that none of their players has to clock up around 1.000 km a week to attend training sessions is merely coincidental.

Etc. etc….the spiel goes on and on…

It would appear that Dublin is just lucky to have such a bunch of talented players now as Kerry had in the late 70s or Kilkenny hurlers had in recent years and it’s down to culchie hoors like me that Dublin aren’t accepted as a normal county which just happens to have a talented side. Once Berno and Clucko and Diarmo and Ciano and Uncle Tom Cobbley and all  hang up their boots, all will return to normal once more.

Anyone who swallows that taurine excrement is indeed living in Cloud Cuckoo Land!
In 2010 Meath put five past Clucko, winning by 11 points in the process.
Yet, the following year with most of the ‘10 team still on board, Dublin went all the way to the top.

So cart horses morphed into thoroughbreds in a single season< of their own accord!

The fact that the County Board felt they were humiliated and decided to get their act together, hence the “Blue Flag” initiative, had nothing to do  with the dramatic turnabout upsurge in Dublin’s football fortunes.

Tomás and his likes may well spout that that there is no a well-oiled conveyor belt of talent coming through to replace the present players.

McCaffrey, McCarthy, Fenton, Kilkenny, Cooper,  Costello, Small etc. just materialised out of nowhere like Stephen Hawking’s theory of Creation?

WTF does he think he’s codding??

Look, I have nothing personal against Jim Gavin, a true gent, or his team as they are doing what any other county would do if they had the same resources. But, FFS, stop the hypocrisy of pretence that Dublin are just like any other side and that Professionalism and Science all along with unlimited backup resources mean nothing at all.

How many All Irelands have been won to date by Leitrim, Sligo or ,say, Carlow. I mean if money and the most professional set up this side of the Alamo count for nothing, how come any of the above never won one yet?

+1
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: gammysolo on October 16, 2016, 04:07:30 PM
Would dublin have won the all they have these last few years on Leitrims budget?
No. Carry on.

Carry on.

It simply rubbishes the narrative of Dublin have a unique team who are so special that money and resources have nothing to do with their success.

They had an edge in last years semi reply because they had an excellent recovery prog inbetween the two games whilst we didnt have such a prog because of resources and logistical problems with our bucks scattered all over the country. Why is there such a reluctance to accept the reality.its not an excuse its just the truth.

have to agree with this. With dublin players not working and getting meals delivered to them. Tough on the mayo players having to work the monday after and cramped into a bus straight after game. Dubs were definiely fresher the next day
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: heffo on October 16, 2016, 04:40:46 PM
How long is generally customary for Mayo posters to bitch and moan after being beaten annually?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: larryin89 on October 16, 2016, 04:56:44 PM
Its just pointless if you dont want to tell it how it is. Sarcastic comebacks about meals and buses home etc, blah blah blah. The GAA have created a monster and furthermore if you knew anything youd know top brass realise that now.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: heffo on October 16, 2016, 05:15:42 PM
Would dublin have won the all they have these last few years on Leitrims budget?
No. Carry on.

Carry on.

It simply rubbishes the narrative of Dublin have a unique team who are so special that money and resources have nothing to do with their success.

They had an edge in last years semi reply because they had an excellent recovery prog inbetween the two games whilst we didnt have such a prog because of resources and logistical problems with our bucks scattered all over the country. Why is there such a reluctance to accept the reality.its not an excuse its just the truth.

have to agree with this. With dublin players not working and getting meals delivered to them. Tough on the mayo players having to work the monday after and cramped into a bus straight after game. Dubs were definiely fresher the next day

Who doesn't work?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: larryin89 on October 16, 2016, 06:13:44 PM
See it just escalates into a slagging match and i believe gammysolo is being sarcastic btw .

Pointless debate so long as Dublin supporters are not willing to be objective rather than ultra  defensive .
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: INDIANA on October 16, 2016, 06:42:32 PM
See it just escalates into a slagging match and i believe gammysolo is being sarcastic btw .

Pointless debate so long as Dublin supporters are not willing to be objective rather than ultra  defensive .

Dublin supporters talk with unerring accuracy on the subject

Its our country brethren who talk in banal inaccurate riddles on the subject Larry
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Thy Kingdom Come on October 16, 2016, 06:46:07 PM
Would dublin have won the all they have these last few years on Leitrims budget?
No. Carry on.

Carry on.

It simply rubbishes the narrative of Dublin have a unique team who are so special that money and resources have nothing to do with their success.

They had an edge in last years semi reply because they had an excellent recovery prog inbetween the two games whilst we didnt have such a prog because of resources and logistical problems with our bucks scattered all over the country. Why is there such a reluctance to accept the reality.its not an excuse its just the truth.

have to agree with this. With dublin players not working and getting meals delivered to them. Tough on the mayo players having to work the monday after and cramped into a bus straight after game. Dubs were definiely fresher the next day

Who doesn't work?

Since you are knowledgeable on the subject, name the players who do? I'm looking forward to their names and job titles?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: heffo on October 16, 2016, 07:03:46 PM
Would dublin have won the all they have these last few years on Leitrims budget?
No. Carry on.

Carry on.

It simply rubbishes the narrative of Dublin have a unique team who are so special that money and resources have nothing to do with their success.

They had an edge in last years semi reply because they had an excellent recovery prog inbetween the two games whilst we didnt have such a prog because of resources and logistical problems with our bucks scattered all over the country. Why is there such a reluctance to accept the reality.its not an excuse its just the truth.

have to agree with this. With dublin players not working and getting meals delivered to them. Tough on the mayo players having to work the monday after and cramped into a bus straight after game. Dubs were definiely fresher the next day

Who doesn't work?

Since you are knowledgeable on the subject, name the players who do? I'm looking forward to their names and job titles?

Didn't claim to be much at all and the burden of proof hardly rests with me. All of their occupations are listed on Dublingaa.ie - no full time Ex-Ulster Bank pros among them
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: INDIANA on October 16, 2016, 07:45:17 PM
Would dublin have won the all they have these last few years on Leitrims budget?
No. Carry on.

Carry on.

It simply rubbishes the narrative of Dublin have a unique team who are so special that money and resources have nothing to do with their success.

They had an edge in last years semi reply because they had an excellent recovery prog inbetween the two games whilst we didnt have such a prog because of resources and logistical problems with our bucks scattered all over the country. Why is there such a reluctance to accept the reality.its not an excuse its just the truth.

have to agree with this. With dublin players not working and getting meals delivered to them. Tough on the mayo players having to work the monday after and cramped into a bus straight after game. Dubs were definiely fresher the next day

Who doesn't work?

Since you are knowledgeable on the subject, name the players who do? I'm looking forward to their names and job titles?

Put up the Kerry players? You've had professional GAA players since the 70's with them having jobs in name only
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Lar Naparka on October 16, 2016, 08:00:18 PM
If Dublin have the population of  a province then they would be expected to have the same number of talented players as a province.  Claiming that a few good players just happened to come along is an insult to our intelligence.
Yeah, that’s my problem, pure and simple.
All you get when this topic is brought up is snide comments and sarcasm masquerading as logic from those who see nothing wrong with the current setup.
But there’s a serious side issue with the Dublin model and it’s going to have serious, long term consequences for the GAA as an organisation.

I did a quick check here  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_population_analysis#Dublin)and without spending much time on it, I came up with a total of fifteen counties whose combined population was less than that of Dublin.

So, in spite of that, we are being asked to accept that Dublin is just another county; nothing remarkable about it apart from the fact that they just happen to have a good team.
Each of the fifteen has its own competitions and structures, reaching down to the lowest age level. There may not be an awful lot of youngsters at any age level but a far higher percentage for those counties will stay involved in the GAA for much longer than the majority of their counterparts in Dublin will. Sure kids will always drop out of any sort as they grow older but the problem is greatly exacerbated in Dublin where clubs like Ballyboden have hordes of kiddies, more than the combined number in many less populated counties.
Clubs will always have young players dropping out for one reason or another as they get older but with Dublin’s superclubs many more are dropped because there’s simply no room for them as the number of teams fielded at u14s and upwards decrease as the age level rises.
But soccer doesn’t follow the pyramid model of the GAA and there are assloads of competitions for all ages and abilities. I’ve had this problem in my own household some years ago. My kid and a few of his pals joined Ballyboden and the craic was 90 up until they found that u15 level a couple was no longer deeded. So they all dropped out and had no problem getting a game every weekend with one or other of the local soccer clubs.
None of them felt particularly fond of the club they played with. I suppose most of them will wear the Dub jersey and go for a few lagers with their mates from the QF stage onwards but there is no conscious involvement with the GAA.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: The Aristocrat on October 17, 2016, 09:26:01 AM
Your right Indiana, no point debating with ignorance and 31 county bias. Best to just ignore.

I wonder how many of this board have done something to assist their own county rather than spouting on boards with BS.



Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: tonto1888 on October 17, 2016, 09:59:13 AM
Would dublin have won the all they have these last few years on Leitrims budget?
No. Carry on.

Carry on.

It simply rubbishes the narrative of Dublin have a unique team who are so special that money and resources have nothing to do with their success.

They had an edge in last years semi reply because they had an excellent recovery prog inbetween the two games whilst we didnt have such a prog because of resources and logistical problems with our bucks scattered all over the country. Why is there such a reluctance to accept the reality.its not an excuse its just the truth.

have to agree with this. With dublin players not working and getting meals delivered to them. Tough on the mayo players having to work the monday after and cramped into a bus straight after game. Dubs were definiely fresher the next day

Who doesn't work?

Since you are knowledgeable on the subject, name the players who do? I'm looking forward to their names and job titles?

it has been put up before if you care to look. Probably doesnt suit your argument to look though
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: AZOffaly on October 17, 2016, 10:35:45 AM
If the money makes no difference, then give it back, and let someone else have it.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: heffo on October 17, 2016, 10:36:57 AM
If the money makes no difference, then give it back, and let someone else have it.

I assume you're referring to the Mayo management team?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Buttofthehill on October 17, 2016, 10:39:48 AM
Are people trying to say the Dublin players don't work for a living? I happen to share a staff room with one high profile player and I don't think he is here for the craic.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: dublin7 on October 17, 2016, 10:57:12 AM
Are people trying to say the Dublin players don't work for a living? I happen to share a staff room with one high profile player and I don't think he is here for the craic.

Cian O'Sullivan recently got a promotion with PWC so he obviously must be working during the day.  We had Kieran Donaghy & Darran O'Sullivan quitting work to focus on football, but lets all focus on the dubs and fiction and ignore everybody else.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/darran-o-sullivan-puts-kerry-front-and-centre-1.2081734

Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Lar Naparka on October 17, 2016, 12:59:02 PM
Are people trying to say the Dublin players don't work for a living? I happen to share a staff room with one high profile player and I don't think he is here for the craic.

Cian O'Sullivan recently got a promotion with PWC so he obviously must be working during the day.  We had Kieran Donaghy & Darran O'Sullivan quitting work to focus on football, but lets all focus on the dubs and fiction and ignore everybody else.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/darran-o-sullivan-puts-kerry-front-and-centre-1.2081734
I don’t know what point you are attempting to make here but, whatever it is, it’s well wide of the mark.
I’m not getting involved in any hassle about where the income of any player, Dub or any others is coming from as I don’t know anything about anybody.

But I take it that you are claiming that Darran O’Sullivan is getting paid by the Kerry County Board so that he can concentrate on football.
Otherwise, what you are claiming makes no sense at all.
That doesn’t come across in this article you refer to.
Dunno how he gets money, probably gone back to the family farm or the likes but there is no mention here of any help from the county board.
So that dog won’t bark for you, in a manner of speaking.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: AZOffaly on October 17, 2016, 01:07:43 PM
If the money makes no difference, then give it back, and let someone else have it.

I assume you're referring to the Mayo management team?

I don't give a flying f*ck what people spend on their senior teams. I'm talking about Coaching and Development monies that Dublin receive. If it doesn't make a difference, give it back. Of course I'm being facetious. I know it makes a difference, and I know they are spending it very wisely. It just gets on my tits when people pretend it has nothing to do with the quality of player Dublin can produce.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Lar Naparka on October 17, 2016, 01:10:14 PM
If the money makes no difference, then give it back, and let someone else have it.

I assume you're referring to the Mayo management team?
Heffo, me oul’ segotia, from one incorrigible bullshitter to another, maybe I offer you a bit of advice?
If you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.

It would be hard to give back the money spent on Mayo’s management team as it as comes in from all parts of the world, wherever there are exiles from Mayo. I can tell you something- it’s not coming from the Central Council and that’s for sure.
Dublin with 29% of the population gets almost half the development grants and that leaves Mayo and every other county in the land sucking the hind tit.
Besides, with a population greater than a total of 15 other counties, it wouldn’t be hard to pick up enough to pay the costs of one single panel and even the income of the full player squad, would it? ;D
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: mup on October 17, 2016, 01:57:39 PM
Your right Indiana, no point debating with ignorance and 31 county bias. Best to just ignore.

I wonder how many of this board have done something to assist their own county rather than spouting on boards with BS.

You are not too bad at spouting the old bs yourself.

Still waiting for figures on what McGeeney was paid in Kildare. Its ok to be wrong ya know.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: The Aristocrat on October 17, 2016, 02:06:31 PM
Again nobody had a problem with it when Dublin weren't winning, it seems success brings out the worst in opposition fans, Tyrone and Kerry go it in the noughties too.

Anyway, All Ireland champions again, Nothing will ever take away from the enjoyment of all Irelands in 6 years, nothing.


Your right Indiana, no point debating with ignorance and 31 county bias. Best to just ignore.

I wonder how many of this board have done something to assist their own county rather than spouting on boards with BS.

You are not too bad at spouting the old bs yourself.

Still waiting for figures on what McGeeney was paid in Kildare. Its ok to be wrong ya know.

How bout you prove im wrong.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: AZOffaly on October 17, 2016, 02:12:09 PM
Tyrone and Kerry got what in the noughties? They didn't get 1.4m annually for coaching and games development.

Again, I don't blame Dublin at all. But to say that the money is irrelevant is very insulting. If it is irrelevant, then a) Dublin are making a hames of using it and b) They should give it back.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: mup on October 17, 2016, 02:32:37 PM
Again nobody had a problem with it when Dublin weren't winning, it seems success brings out the worst in opposition fans, Tyrone and Kerry go it in the noughties too.

Anyway, All Ireland champions again, Nothing will ever take away from the enjoyment of all Irelands in 6 years, nothing.


Your right Indiana, no point debating with ignorance and 31 county bias. Best to just ignore.

I wonder how many of this board have done something to assist their own county rather than spouting on boards with BS.

You are not too bad at spouting the old bs yourself.

Still waiting for figures on what McGeeney was paid in Kildare. Its ok to be wrong ya know.

How bout you prove im wrong.

You made the statement that he was. I asked you to prove it. Yet again you are fudging.

You are making yourself look silly now. Just admit you don't have the figures and we'll move on.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Lar Naparka on October 17, 2016, 03:35:36 PM
Again nobody had a problem with it when Dublin weren't winning, it seems success brings out the worst in opposition fans, Tyrone and Kerry go it in the noughties too.

Anyway, All Ireland champions again, Nothing will ever take away from the enjoyment of all Irelands in 6 years, nothing.

You are easily pleased my good man and not a bit embarrassed at all the advantages you have over all other counties by the looks of it.

Now, I know lads on four legs who could get this far faster than yer average Dub but I’ll try anyway…

What is so special about the following list?
Offaly, Mayo, Louth, Waterford, Westmeath, Laois, Cavan, Sligo, Longford, Roscommon, Monaghan, Carlow, Leitrim, Clare and Wicklow.
Dublin has more people than the 15 of them put together and yet you and your buddies think there is nothing special that makes Dublin different to the all  of them. ;D ;D
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Buttofthehill on October 17, 2016, 03:45:58 PM
Lar, leaving the money issue aside, what is your problem with Dublin's population? I would imagine what others are trying to say is its not Dublin's fault more people are living there than Clare, Carlow etc. Wasn't it always this way?

I don't know about the money issue - I don't care what McGeeney, Mayo Backroom team, Micko etc were on and I don't know the intricate details of GPOs etc in Dublin but I don't get the issue of Dublin's population.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: AZOffaly on October 17, 2016, 03:57:32 PM
I don't have a problem with Dublin's population. It was ever thus, and that was part of the craic playing them. The big city against the culchies. That's called an inherent advantage, and I don't have problem with it.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: The Aristocrat on October 17, 2016, 04:16:13 PM
Gentlemen, gentlemen , Gentlemen. You will never learn.

I will come back here when somebody gets the books opened from each of the 32 county boards over the last 30 years so we can analyse them.

Also, just want to highlight PortLaois lost for the first time in 10 years in the Laois Senior football championship. They had more population and money Id imagine than the rest of the teams in Laois but being the major town in Laois they always had the resources.

Enjoy the winter. Mine will be short and enjoyable watching reruns of the All Ireland run.  ;)

Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Lar Naparka on October 17, 2016, 05:35:53 PM
Lar, leaving the money issue aside, what is your problem with Dublin's population? I would imagine what others are trying to say is its not Dublin's fault more people are living there than Clare, Carlow etc. Wasn't it always this way?

I don't know about the money issue - I don't care what McGeeney, Mayo Backroom team, Micko etc were on and I don't know the intricate details of GPOs etc in Dublin but I don't get the issue of Dublin's population.
That’s fair enough. Dublin has always had more people than any other county and it has always been that way. But having a disproportionately large percentage of the population gives Dublin a massive head start over all opposition.
Greater and better facilities available, larger player pool to select from and more lucrative sponsorship deals with any company that is interested. You can add in the fact that the vast majority of players will find employment or attend college somewhere in their own vicinity.
Darran O’Sullivan spoke of the five hour commute, four or five times a week, to and from training; no Dublin players has that sort of obstacle to face.
Really, the size of the population means an awful lot in many ways.
Leitrim will never challenge for AI honours and neither will at least 20 more counties- they don’t have the population; ergo, they don’t have the same resources.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Lar Naparka on October 17, 2016, 05:48:47 PM
Gentlemen, gentlemen , Gentlemen. You will never learn.

I will come back here when somebody gets the books opened from each of the 32 county boards over the last 30 years so we can analyse them.

Also, just want to highlight PortLaois lost for the first time in 10 years in the Laois Senior football championship. They had more population and money Id imagine than the rest of the teams in Laois but being the major town in Laois they always had the resources.

Enjoy the winter. Mine will be short and enjoyable watching reruns of the All Ireland run.  ;)
H, feck it, I promised myself I’d lay off the craic for a while but this one is too good to ignore… :D :D
“PortLaoise lost for the first time in 10 years in the Laois Senior football championship. They had more population and money Id imagine than the rest of the teams in Laois but being the major town in Laois they always had the resources.”
Dunno what point you were attempting to make but you don’t seem to realise that you are arguing against your own cause.
Portlaoise won 9 championships on the trot because they had a bigger  population and more money than all the other teams in Laois combined.
Like you say, they always had the resources to do so.


Just substitute Dublin for Laois and, say, the Leinster championship  for the Laois one and tell me what you think.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Buttofthehill on October 17, 2016, 07:00:50 PM
Lar, leaving the money issue aside, what is your problem with Dublin's population? I would imagine what others are trying to say is its not Dublin's fault more people are living there than Clare, Carlow etc. Wasn't it always this way?

I don't know about the money issue - I don't care what McGeeney, Mayo Backroom team, Micko etc were on and I don't know the intricate details of GPOs etc in Dublin but I don't get the issue of Dublin's population.
That’s fair enough. Dublin has always had more people than any other county and it has always been that way. But having a disproportionately large percentage of the population gives Dublin a massive head start over all opposition.
Greater and better facilities available, larger player pool to select from and more lucrative sponsorship deals with any company that is interested. You can add in the fact that the vast majority of players will find employment or attend college somewhere in their own vicinity.
Darran O’Sullivan spoke of the five hour commute, four or five times a week, to and from training; no Dublin players has that sort of obstacle to face.
Really, the size of the population means an awful lot in many ways.
Leitrim will never challenge for AI honours and neither will at least 20 more counties- they don’t have the population; ergo, they don’t have the same resources.

But your issue is more with the geographical / economic make-up of the country than with the Dublin football team?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Zulu on October 17, 2016, 07:24:32 PM
This is an issue that has normally good posters making silly arguments. The GAA model is inherently unfair and always was. Waterford or Clare were never in a fair battle with Kerry nor Leitrim and Sligo with Mayo. Some counties always had bigger populations and more money, so what's changed that Dublin are so different? It seems to me that some of the big boys are simply complaining because they now face what the majority of us always faced. competing with a bigger badder dog.

The only, absolutely only, issue is whether the GAA are allocating money (centrally controlled money that could be spent however they wanted) disproportionally to Dublin when some of it might be better spent elsewhere. This isn't only a matter of taking it off Dublin and giving it to Offaly or Leitrim for example. No point in not letting Dublin keep it if other counties are going to waste it. Likewise we shouldn't give Dublin central funds for things they can fund themselves if we have good plans that need funding in other counties.

Dublin enjoy inherent advantages over us all but that's just the way it is, the same way Mayo enjoy advantages over most of their provincial rivals. We can't or shouldn't try to change that unless we want to fundamentally change the IC game. The only issue is the use of central funds and while Dublin may have been getting a big slice of that pie they have used it well so I've no issue with that. Now if some other counties could use some more of that money and can show how it will be used effectively then of course it should be considered.

All the other arguments are just piss and bluster IMO.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: muppet on October 17, 2016, 07:26:18 PM
Complaining about the population of Dublin is like complaining about the rain. You might find people who agree with you, but there is f*ck all anyone can do about it.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on October 17, 2016, 08:14:11 PM
Also, just want to highlight PortLaois lost for the first time in 10 years in the Laois Senior football championship. They had more population and money Id imagine than the rest of the teams in Laois but being the major town in Laois they always had the resources.

Not quite...

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/penniless-portlaoise-can-point-to-riches-on-pitch-251908.html (http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/penniless-portlaoise-can-point-to-riches-on-pitch-251908.html)
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: blast05 on October 17, 2016, 10:20:08 PM
Quote
Gentlemen, gentlemen , Gentlemen. You will never learn.

I will come back here when somebody gets the books opened from each of the 32 county boards over the last 30 years so we can analyse them.

OK .... i'll start with the most recent 3 Mayo ones ... can you do the same for Dublin please ?
2013: http://sportlomo-userupload.s3.amazonaws.com/uploaded/galleries/21_uploaded/Mayo%20GAA%20Accounts%202013.xls (http://sportlomo-userupload.s3.amazonaws.com/uploaded/galleries/21_uploaded/Mayo%20GAA%20Accounts%202013.xls)
2014: http://sportlomo-userupload.s3.amazonaws.com/uploaded/galleries/21_uploaded/Auditors%20Report_Financial%20Accounts%202014.pdf (http://sportlomo-userupload.s3.amazonaws.com/uploaded/galleries/21_uploaded/Auditors%20Report_Financial%20Accounts%202014.pdf)
2015: http://sportlomo-userupload.s3.amazonaws.com/uploaded/galleries/21_uploaded/Auditors%20Report_Financial%20Accounts%202014.pdf (http://sportlomo-userupload.s3.amazonaws.com/uploaded/galleries/21_uploaded/Auditors%20Report_Financial%20Accounts%202014.pdf)

I'm not interested in the population discussion. I'm interested in the money side of things and not just the coaching money (which has been put to excellent use in fairness but is not a level playing field either as we all know)
How is it that Ciaran Kilkenny can spend 2 week in Donegal doing teacher training in weeks leading up to the draw but can get flown down to training via helicopter.... who pays for that? The Dublin based Mayo boys of course criss-crossing the country - half the time squeezed into back seats - for 4 hours each way with 20+ hours driving between draw and replay either to Castlebar (or once to Athlone).

Dublin have a level of professionalism that even Tomas O'Se doesn't understand.
It reminds of when Emilyn Mulligan was interviewed before they played Roscommon and said that since the new Leitrim training facility opened that the Leitrim senior team lacked for absolutely nothing. Nonsense of course... more a case of him not knowing what he didn't have.
Same with Mayo - players are apparently happy with everything they have - setup, facilities, etc, etc. Would they though prefer the Ciaran Kilkenny mode of transport for travelling down from Dublin & elsewhere for training.............


Oh and the population .... we would have won the All-Ireland in 1841 v Dublin ...  :P
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_population_analysis#Dublin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_population_analysis#Dublin)
Dublin population 372,000.
Mayo population 388,000
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Lar Naparka on October 17, 2016, 10:32:37 PM
Lar, leaving the money issue aside, what is your problem with Dublin's population? I would imagine what others are trying to say is its not Dublin's fault more people are living there than Clare, Carlow etc. Wasn't it always this way?

I don't know about the money issue - I don't care what McGeeney, Mayo Backroom team, Micko etc were on and I don't know the intricate details of GPOs etc in Dublin but I don't get the issue of Dublin's population.
That’s fair enough. Dublin has always had more people than any other county and it has always been that way. But having a disproportionately large percentage of the population gives Dublin a massive head start over all opposition.
Greater and better facilities available, larger player pool to select from and more lucrative sponsorship deals with any company that is interested. You can add in the fact that the vast majority of players will find employment or attend college somewhere in their own vicinity.
Darran O’Sullivan spoke of the five hour commute, four or five times a week, to and from training; no Dublin players has that sort of obstacle to face.
Really, the size of the population means an awful lot in many ways.
Leitrim will never challenge for AI honours and neither will at least 20 more counties- they don’t have the population; ergo, they don’t have the same resources.

But your issue is more with the geographical / economic make-up of the country than with the Dublin football team?
You are right.
I never had any problems with Jim Gavin or the Dubs’ team. I feel you’ll find that AZ and most other posters here think along the same lines. It’s no fault of the Dublin GAA that the gap in every conceivable way between the Greater Dublin Area (The Pale for history buffs) and the rest of the country is steadily widening.
Rural depopulation may not mean much to Dublin people but it means the death of whole communities to those in more remote parts of the island. Smaller clubs are either amalgamating or going out of existence altogether and it gets harder and harder for small rural regions to keep their AA club ticking over.
In Mayo we have a club named Parke-Keelogues-Crimlin and it’s easy to see that there was once three clubs where there  is only one now. Much the same story all along the western seaboard.
The Dublin CB decided to take remedial action after an embarrassing defeat to Meath in 2010. So they did their calculations and submitted proposals to Central Council.
This was “The Blue Flag” project and this is what has started the present aggro between the ‘Haves’ and the ‘Have Nots.’
According to the infographic I linked to in my last post, Dublin gets €274 per registered player, while Mayo gets just €22.
Now, the CC has come along with the ‘East Leinster Project’ where they plan to pump €1.5m into the commuter counties around Dublin for an initial 3 years.
Dublin got a total of €4m in development funds last year, whereas Longford got just over €140,000 but are still expected to compete on equal terms with Dublin whenever they meet.
As I see it, as the political and commercial landscape changes and the movement of people from the west coast to the east continues, the gap  between the GAA  in Dublin and in the rest of the country will continue to widen.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: blast05 on October 18, 2016, 11:10:12 PM
Well Aristocrat, any chance of providing links to the Dublin accounts ? I presume they are publicly available but I just can't find them....
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Fuzzman on October 19, 2016, 09:38:02 AM
I don't give a flying f*ck what people spend on their senior teams. I'm talking about Coaching and Development monies that Dublin receive. If it doesn't make a difference, give it back. Of course I'm being facetious. I know it makes a difference, and I know they are spending it very wisely. It just gets on my tits when people pretend it has nothing to do with the quality of player Dublin can produce.

This is the most important point of all this discussion. Yes we already know Dublin has a lot of other advantages which have been there for years and often they didn't use them to their full potential but Dublin GAA decided to follow the Tyrone model and focus a lot more on their underage structures. For years they were not winning minor or U21 titles so they put plans in place to address that. 2012 and 2003 was their last two minor titles whereas they've won U21 titles in 2010, 2012 and 2014.
My own kids attend our local GAA club nursery every Sat and the number of kids taking part is huge. You see older kids walking around wearing GAA shirts now a lot more so of course all this money and time invested in the kids development will mean Dublin will continue to develop much more quantity of better footballers than around the country.

Also, how often do you see young Dublin players going off to Aussie rules? We see today Kerry's young Mark O’Connor heading off to see how he gets on and if he likes it or not?
We saw Jack McCaffrey and young Kilkenny go off a few years ago to check it out as well but neither stayed as the pull of life back in Dublin near the famiy and friends was too much. If you live in rural Kerry or Tyrone there isn't as many attractions to keep you there.

My concern for the GAA is that as the Dublin super club seems to attract all the big players who move to Dublin and dominate, the same will happen at county level where they will continue to produce more and more top quality players who come through the underage system conveyor belt and dominate for several years.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Rossfan on October 19, 2016, 11:17:47 AM
Long term the GAA will have to reconsider what might be termed "representative" football.
Do they make Dublin a Province with 4 Co Boards and 4 County teams?
Or do we make the All Ireland SFC a more Regional thing with units of around 0.5 m population to compete with Dublin and the future heavily populated Meath and Kildare?
Keep the Counties for NFL and Provincials but then have a separate AI SFC?

We all want as many people as possible playing Gaelic games but we need competitive competitions too that don't exclude the vast majority of us.
While we're at it what sort of oenetration have our games got in Cork, Limerick, Galway cities or Nationalist areas if Belfast and Derry?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: AZOffaly on October 19, 2016, 12:01:03 PM
Limerick City for years was a wasteland for GAA, and to be honest it's still fairly under represented. Na Piarsaigh and Monaleen would probably be the two biggest clubs, but even they sort of congregate at the opposite ends of the city. In areas where Pike Rovers, Janesboro, Fairview, etc operate there are little or no GAA clubs. I would say there are more Rugby Clubs than GAA clubs in Limerick City. Off the Top of my head I can think of Shannon, Old Crescent, UL Bohemians, Young Munster, Richmond, Saint Marys, Garryowen and Thomond. In GAA I can only think of Saint Patricks, Milford, Monaleen, Claughaun and Na Piarsaigh. I may be missing a few of either list, but it's stark. Soccer would have more than either.


Galway I know was a similar situation. In fact apart from Salthill/Knocknacarra and Liam Mellows I suppose, I don't know of any other clubs in the city.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Rossfan on October 19, 2016, 12:36:47 PM
Is St James's a City club?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: skeog on October 19, 2016, 12:46:17 PM
Must be a few bob down in Wexford the bill for Davy and Banty be in the 6 figure bracket easily.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Lar Naparka on October 19, 2016, 03:14:46 PM
I mentioned fifteen counties that, between them, have less people than Dublin.
Supposing those counties could somehow amalgamate in order to present a united challenge to the Dubs, what would the likely outcome be?

For starters 14 senior panels, along with 14 senior club championships would dissolve and this would continue on down to the lowest levels.
It would mean the end of representative football for an untold number of u21s, minors and younger players.
Certainly, the county teams in every grade would have top class players in every position but it would also mean an awful lot more would have to drop out if they failed to make it to the top.
In such a conglomerate, the club as the hub of the community will have come to the end of its days.
Super teams for club or county are very good at recognising talent and putting it to good use but they cater only for the elite.

Anyone can look at the likes of Vincent's or Ballyboden and say that GAA games are thriving in the capital when they see hundreds of u8s or 9s togged out at weekends.
It’s easy to forget that a very large number will have gone by the time they reach 15 or 16. All sports experience a drop out as children get older but in GAA games the problem is worse than in any other because the numbers catered for decrease as kids get older.
Maybe the Dublin CB is using the development funds it gets “wisely” but it’s concentrating on quality rather than quantity and, long term, that’s not good for the game.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Cunny Funt on October 19, 2016, 03:59:31 PM
Dublin seniors 1996 to 2010 didn't reach any All Ireland final. 2011 to 2016 Dublin win 4 All Irelands. I haven't seen that all of sudden dominance in sport since Michelle Smith in the Olympics 20 years ago  ;)
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: mup on October 20, 2016, 08:01:18 AM
Well Aristocrat, any chance of providing links to the Dublin accounts ? I presume they are publicly available but I just can't find them....

Aristocrat doesn't provide links.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Dinny Breen on October 20, 2016, 09:02:12 AM
Dublin have plenty of money to spend on spin too. The media is full of propaganda on how it's due to talent not money the last week.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: AZOffaly on October 20, 2016, 09:11:04 AM
Dublin have plenty of money to spend on spin too. The media is full of propaganda on how it's due to talent not money the last week.

It is due to talent. Talent nursed and encouraged in well funded coaching structures.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: gammysolo on October 20, 2016, 09:25:56 AM
Is St James's a City club?

Correct and St Michaels are in the city too
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: gammysolo on October 20, 2016, 09:29:28 AM
Quote
Gentlemen, gentlemen , Gentlemen. You will never learn.

I will come back here when somebody gets the books opened from each of the 32 county boards over the last 30 years so we can analyse them.

OK .... i'll start with the most recent 3 Mayo ones ... can you do the same for Dublin please ?
2013: http://sportlomo-userupload.s3.amazonaws.com/uploaded/galleries/21_uploaded/Mayo%20GAA%20Accounts%202013.xls (http://sportlomo-userupload.s3.amazonaws.com/uploaded/galleries/21_uploaded/Mayo%20GAA%20Accounts%202013.xls)
2014: http://sportlomo-userupload.s3.amazonaws.com/uploaded/galleries/21_uploaded/Auditors%20Report_Financial%20Accounts%202014.pdf (http://sportlomo-userupload.s3.amazonaws.com/uploaded/galleries/21_uploaded/Auditors%20Report_Financial%20Accounts%202014.pdf)
2015: http://sportlomo-userupload.s3.amazonaws.com/uploaded/galleries/21_uploaded/Auditors%20Report_Financial%20Accounts%202014.pdf (http://sportlomo-userupload.s3.amazonaws.com/uploaded/galleries/21_uploaded/Auditors%20Report_Financial%20Accounts%202014.pdf)

I'm not interested in the population discussion. I'm interested in the money side of things and not just the coaching money (which has been put to excellent use in fairness but is not a level playing field either as we all know)
How is it that Ciaran Kilkenny can spend 2 week in Donegal doing teacher training in weeks leading up to the draw but can get flown down to training via helicopter.... who pays for that? The Dublin based Mayo boys of course criss-crossing the country - half the time squeezed into back seats - for 4 hours each way with 20+ hours driving between draw and replay either to Castlebar (or once to Athlone).

Dublin have a level of professionalism that even Tomas O'Se doesn't understand.
It reminds of when Emilyn Mulligan was interviewed before they played Roscommon and said that since the new Leitrim training facility opened that the Leitrim senior team lacked for absolutely nothing. Nonsense of course... more a case of him not knowing what he didn't have.
Same with Mayo - players are apparently happy with everything they have - setup, facilities, etc, etc. Would they though prefer the Ciaran Kilkenny mode of transport for travelling down from Dublin & elsewhere for training.............


Oh and the population .... we would have won the All-Ireland in 1841 v Dublin ...  :P
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_population_analysis#Dublin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_population_analysis#Dublin)
Dublin population 372,000.
Mayo population 388,000

Have you link for that? How can the rest of us compete with that when players have helicoptors on standby.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: blast05 on October 20, 2016, 11:32:04 AM
Quote
How you link for that? How can the rest of us compete with that when players have helicoptors on standby.

If there was anything incorrect about it, then the Dublin mafia on here would long since have contradicted it.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: gammysolo on October 20, 2016, 12:10:17 PM
So true
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Bord na Mona man on October 20, 2016, 01:32:26 PM
Quote
Gentlemen, gentlemen , Gentlemen. You will never learn.

I will come back here when somebody gets the books opened from each of the 32 county boards over the last 30 years so we can analyse them.

OK .... i'll start with the most recent 3 Mayo ones ... can you do the same for Dublin please ?
2013: http://sportlomo-userupload.s3.amazonaws.com/uploaded/galleries/21_uploaded/Mayo%20GAA%20Accounts%202013.xls (http://sportlomo-userupload.s3.amazonaws.com/uploaded/galleries/21_uploaded/Mayo%20GAA%20Accounts%202013.xls)
2014: http://sportlomo-userupload.s3.amazonaws.com/uploaded/galleries/21_uploaded/Auditors%20Report_Financial%20Accounts%202014.pdf (http://sportlomo-userupload.s3.amazonaws.com/uploaded/galleries/21_uploaded/Auditors%20Report_Financial%20Accounts%202014.pdf)
2015: http://sportlomo-userupload.s3.amazonaws.com/uploaded/galleries/21_uploaded/Auditors%20Report_Financial%20Accounts%202014.pdf (http://sportlomo-userupload.s3.amazonaws.com/uploaded/galleries/21_uploaded/Auditors%20Report_Financial%20Accounts%202014.pdf)

I'm not interested in the population discussion. I'm interested in the money side of things and not just the coaching money (which has been put to excellent use in fairness but is not a level playing field either as we all know)
How is it that Ciaran Kilkenny can spend 2 week in Donegal doing teacher training in weeks leading up to the draw but can get flown down to training via helicopter.... who pays for that? The Dublin based Mayo boys of course criss-crossing the country - half the time squeezed into back seats - for 4 hours each way with 20+ hours driving between draw and replay either to Castlebar (or once to Athlone).

Dublin have a level of professionalism that even Tomas O'Se doesn't understand.
It reminds of when Emilyn Mulligan was interviewed before they played Roscommon and said that since the new Leitrim training facility opened that the Leitrim senior team lacked for absolutely nothing. Nonsense of course... more a case of him not knowing what he didn't have.
Same with Mayo - players are apparently happy with everything they have - setup, facilities, etc, etc. Would they though prefer the Ciaran Kilkenny mode of transport for travelling down from Dublin & elsewhere for training.............


Oh and the population .... we would have won the All-Ireland in 1841 v Dublin ...  :P
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_population_analysis#Dublin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_population_analysis#Dublin)
Dublin population 372,000.
Mayo population 388,000
Interestingly the NFL puts limits on things like private jet transport to stop some of the avenues where the big franchises lever their advantage over the smaller ones.
Should the GAA think about similar measures. All travel expenses being paid out of a central fund for example.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: ballinaman on October 20, 2016, 02:15:38 PM
Quote
Gentlemen, gentlemen , Gentlemen. You will never learn.

I will come back here when somebody gets the books opened from each of the 32 county boards over the last 30 years so we can analyse them.

OK .... i'll start with the most recent 3 Mayo ones ... can you do the same for Dublin please ?
2013: http://sportlomo-userupload.s3.amazonaws.com/uploaded/galleries/21_uploaded/Mayo%20GAA%20Accounts%202013.xls (http://sportlomo-userupload.s3.amazonaws.com/uploaded/galleries/21_uploaded/Mayo%20GAA%20Accounts%202013.xls)
2014: http://sportlomo-userupload.s3.amazonaws.com/uploaded/galleries/21_uploaded/Auditors%20Report_Financial%20Accounts%202014.pdf (http://sportlomo-userupload.s3.amazonaws.com/uploaded/galleries/21_uploaded/Auditors%20Report_Financial%20Accounts%202014.pdf)
2015: http://sportlomo-userupload.s3.amazonaws.com/uploaded/galleries/21_uploaded/Auditors%20Report_Financial%20Accounts%202014.pdf (http://sportlomo-userupload.s3.amazonaws.com/uploaded/galleries/21_uploaded/Auditors%20Report_Financial%20Accounts%202014.pdf)

I'm not interested in the population discussion. I'm interested in the money side of things and not just the coaching money (which has been put to excellent use in fairness but is not a level playing field either as we all know)
How is it that Ciaran Kilkenny can spend 2 week in Donegal doing teacher training in weeks leading up to the draw but can get flown down to training via helicopter.... who pays for that? The Dublin based Mayo boys of course criss-crossing the country - half the time squeezed into back seats - for 4 hours each way with 20+ hours driving between draw and replay either to Castlebar (or once to Athlone).

Dublin have a level of professionalism that even Tomas O'Se doesn't understand.
It reminds of when Emilyn Mulligan was interviewed before they played Roscommon and said that since the new Leitrim training facility opened that the Leitrim senior team lacked for absolutely nothing. Nonsense of course... more a case of him not knowing what he didn't have.
Same with Mayo - players are apparently happy with everything they have - setup, facilities, etc, etc. Would they though prefer the Ciaran Kilkenny mode of transport for travelling down from Dublin & elsewhere for training.............


Oh and the population .... we would have won the All-Ireland in 1841 v Dublin ...  :P
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_population_analysis#Dublin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_population_analysis#Dublin)
Dublin population 372,000.
Mayo population 388,000
Interestingly the NFL puts limits on things like private jet transport to stop some of the avenues where the big franchises lever their advantage over the smaller ones.
Should the GAA think about similar measures. All travel expenses being paid out of a central fund for example.
I knew the Roscommon bus would come up at some stage......
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Thy Kingdom Come on October 20, 2016, 02:48:15 PM
This made me laugh!  ;D

Good man Jayo!


http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=262287 (http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=262287)

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/jason-sherlock-volunteers-not-cash-driving-dublins-success-426669.html (https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/jason-sherlock-volunteers-not-cash-driving-dublins-success-426669.html)
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on October 20, 2016, 04:56:08 PM
This made me laugh!  ;D

Good man Jayo!


http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=262287 (http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=262287)

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/jason-sherlock-volunteers-not-cash-driving-dublins-success-426669.html (https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/jason-sherlock-volunteers-not-cash-driving-dublins-success-426669.html)

 ;D
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Lar Naparka on October 20, 2016, 05:22:47 PM
This made me laugh!  ;D

Good man Jayo!


http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=262287 (http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=262287)

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/jason-sherlock-volunteers-not-cash-driving-dublins-success-426669.html (https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/jason-sherlock-volunteers-not-cash-driving-dublins-success-426669.html)
Amazing, they all do it for nothing, nada, zilch or whatever yer havin' yerself!
So not a cent for all the doctors, physios, nutritionists, helicopter pilots and Connolly's personal psychiatrist!  ;D ;D





Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: dublin7 on October 20, 2016, 05:31:24 PM
This made me laugh!  ;D

Good man Jayo!


http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=262287 (http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=262287)

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/jason-sherlock-volunteers-not-cash-driving-dublins-success-426669.html (https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/jason-sherlock-volunteers-not-cash-driving-dublins-success-426669.html)
Amazing, they all do it for nothing, nada, zilch or whatever yer havin' yerself!
So not a cent for all the doctors, physios, nutritionists, helicopter pilots and Connolly's personal psychiatrist!  ;D ;D

The point he is making but you choose to ignore is all the former players are giving up their time for free to coach underage teams.  What a helicopter has to do with that I do not know.  Ray Cosgrove is coaching an U14 development panel this year. If he coaches the players in the right way, when they potentially make the dublin senior team it won't be because of nutritionists, pilots, doctors but time and commitment on the part of player/coaches.

Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: manfromdelmonte on October 20, 2016, 06:31:42 PM
This made me laugh!  ;D

Good man Jayo!


http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=262287 (http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=262287)

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/jason-sherlock-volunteers-not-cash-driving-dublins-success-426669.html (https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/jason-sherlock-volunteers-not-cash-driving-dublins-success-426669.html)
Amazing, they all do it for nothing, nada, zilch or whatever yer havin' yerself!
So not a cent for all the doctors, physios, nutritionists, helicopter pilots and Connolly's personal psychiatrist!  ;D ;D

The point he is making but you choose to ignore is all the former players are giving up their time for free to coach underage teams.  What a helicopter has to do with that I do not know.  Ray Cosgrove is coaching an U14 development panel this year. If he coaches the players in the right way, when they potentially make the dublin senior team it won't be because of nutritionists, pilots, doctors but time and commitment on the part of player/coaches.
same as in every county.

Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: The Hill is Blue on October 20, 2016, 06:55:21 PM
Dublin have plenty of money to spend on spin too. The media is full of propaganda on how it's due to talent not money the last week.

If footballing success were simply down to money Kildare wouldn't be waiting ninety years for All Ireland success.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Lar Naparka on October 20, 2016, 07:23:16 PM
This made me laugh!  ;D

Good man Jayo!


http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=262287 (http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=262287)

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/jason-sherlock-volunteers-not-cash-driving-dublins-success-426669.html (https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/jason-sherlock-volunteers-not-cash-driving-dublins-success-426669.html)
Amazing, they all do it for nothing, nada, zilch or whatever yer havin' yerself!
So not a cent for all the doctors, physios, nutritionists, helicopter pilots and Connolly's personal psychiatrist!  ;D ;D

The point he is making but you choose to ignore is all the former players are giving up their time for free to coach underage teams.  What a helicopter has to do with that I do not know.  Ray Cosgrove is coaching an U14 development panel this year. If he coaches the players in the right way, when they potentially make the dublin senior team it won't be because of nutritionists, pilots, doctors but time and commitment on the part of player/coaches.
You must be joking! ;D
The heading of the article iin Hoganstand is "Jayo - Dubs backroom team not paid"
The picture is captioned "Former greats Mick Deegan and Jason Sherlock now part of the Dublin back room team."
Further on: "A photograph emerged after the All-Ireland final showing a 23-strong backroom team celebrating the Dubs' fourth Sam Maguire Cup success in six seasons. It was an image that caused envy in other counties and led to claims that the Dubs' success is being bankrolled. But 'Jayo' doesn't agree:
Now what would any rational reader take all this to mean?

Now you wrote:"The point he is making but you choose to ignore is all the former players are giving up their time for free to coach underage teams."
That is certainly not what the article says, twist it anyway you want. Anyway, what's newsworthy about ex-county players devoting time to coaching youngsters? You'll get that in every county.
The Examiner piece is even more unequivocal: "Jason Sherlock: Volunteers, not cash, driving Dublin's success"
But the craic gets even better: "Boss Jim Gavin headed the backroom team though the picture also included medical, nutrition, media, statistical, video, and various coaching experts."

Any mention in either article of underage coaching? ;D



Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Buttofthehill on October 20, 2016, 09:38:43 PM
What is the standard number in terms of back room teams? If Dublin have 23, what do Mayo, Kerry etc have?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: ballinaman on October 20, 2016, 10:06:40 PM
What is the standard number in terms of back room teams? If Dublin have 23, what do Mayo, Kerry etc have?
2016 Mayo back room was...
Rochford, Tony McEntee, Donie Buckley, Sean Carey, S&C x 2, Doctor, Physio x 2, Massseuse, nutritionist, stats analyst x2 , logistics, media, psychologist, kitman.....17

Considerably smaller than circus of 2015 under H&C
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: twohands!!! on October 21, 2016, 12:16:10 AM
Anyone know the number of paid full-time GPOs/GDAs Dublin have and how many the other counties have?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Lar Naparka on October 23, 2016, 10:27:14 PM
Anyone know the number of paid full-time GPOs/GDAs Dublin have and how many the other counties have?
According to Eamonn Sweeney, the bucko that writes a column for the Sindo, there are 60.
NO ideas about the number in any other county.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: muppet on October 23, 2016, 10:32:13 PM
Anyone know the number of paid full-time GPOs/GDAs Dublin have and how many the other counties have?
According to Eamonn Sweeney, the bucko that writes a column for the Sindo, there are 60.
NO ideas about the number in any other county.

60!

Imagine if Pat Hickey was CX of the Dubs CB? The scramble for tickets would be legendary.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: twohands!!! on October 23, 2016, 10:43:00 PM
Anyone know the number of paid full-time GPOs/GDAs Dublin have and how many the other counties have?
According to Eamonn Sweeney, the bucko that writes a column for the Sindo, there are 60.
NO ideas about the number in any other county.

I know Cork have somewhere around 5/6 because I heard there was a thing that the County Board were trying to claim lads who worked exclusively for UCC and CIT and some lads who did office jobs to bump the number up. I also heard from a guy with very good links to Croke Park that Dublin have more full-time coaches that all the other counties combined. I thought it was funny to hear Jayo and Brogan going on about all the coaching being done by the volunteers.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: AZOffaly on October 23, 2016, 10:48:25 PM
Tipp have 4, one for each division. And they have a boss, a Games Manager.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: seafoid on October 24, 2016, 08:20:18 AM
Michael Duignan ‏@DuignanMichael  16 august
Offaly, Ireland
Sport in its purest form is gone! Even hurling & football All Irl's can only be won by counties with deep pockets. #elite #amateurmyarse
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: AZOffaly on October 24, 2016, 08:24:26 AM
Duignan might be reconsidering the notion today after Rynaghs won again in Offaly. First time in 20 years or so I'd say.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: seafoid on October 24, 2016, 10:44:01 AM
Duignan might be reconsidering the notion today after Rynaghs won again in Offaly. First time in 20 years or so I'd say.
That must have gone down very well in Banagher.
Where do they say "that  beats Banagher" ?

It good to see things going well for him again cos he must have had a very tough time after his wife died
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Lone Shark on October 24, 2016, 05:01:42 PM
Duignan might be reconsidering the notion today after Rynaghs won again in Offaly. First time in 20 years or so I'd say.
That must have gone down very well in Banagher.
Where do they say "that  beats Banagher" ?

It good to see things going well for him again cos he must have had a very tough time after his wife died

Great day for him all round - he managed Ballinamere/Durrow to win the minor title on the same day, with his sons both involved. His elder son Seán lifted the cup as captain. He was also sent off to the terrace from the dugout during the game, and was presented to the crowd as part of the 1991 Offaly NHL winning team.

Busy day for Michael!
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Michael Schmeichal on October 25, 2016, 10:30:49 AM
Anyone know the number of paid full-time GPOs/GDAs Dublin have and how many the other counties have?

Dublin have between 45-50 full tome GPO's. The clubs they work for pay half their salary. The County Board pay the other half.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Dinny Breen on November 10, 2016, 02:38:27 PM
Good to see all that money going so well on game promotion and development of players

http://otoolesgac.ie/2016/11/07/senior-hurlers-wanted/ (http://otoolesgac.ie/2016/11/07/senior-hurlers-wanted/)

then as someone stated perhaps that money is only about developing elite players and not keeping kids in the game.

That advert is more akin to Senior Rugby than GAA.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: OgraAnDun on November 10, 2016, 02:47:49 PM
Good to see all that money going so well on game promotion and development of players

http://otoolesgac.ie/2016/11/07/senior-hurlers-wanted/ (http://otoolesgac.ie/2016/11/07/senior-hurlers-wanted/)

then as someone stated perhaps that money is only about developing elite players and not keeping kids in the game.

That advert is more akin to Senior Rugby than GAA.

They're probably trying to attract culchies moving to Dublin and looking for a club?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Dinny Breen on November 10, 2016, 03:06:35 PM
Why? They had a winning season, amazing facilities, why not promote from within? Why are the GAA spending millions on Dublin GAA developing players if they are actively trying to recruit players, not even players moving locally but "The North Side". What happens to the local player he replaces?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: rodney trotter on November 10, 2016, 03:24:51 PM
3 non Dubs transferred to St Vincents at the start of the year. They were current or former county players. Enda Varley being one of them. Brendan Egan joined a few years ago

They are a strong enough club as it is. There should be a restriction on amount of non dub players on their club teams
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: mup on November 11, 2016, 01:08:02 PM
Why? They had a winning season, amazing facilities, why not promote from within? Why are the GAA spending millions on Dublin GAA developing players if they are actively trying to recruit players, not even players moving locally but "The North Side". What happens to the local player he replaces?

Be prepared for the backlash with the focus on a certain Cavan hurler.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Lar Naparka on November 11, 2016, 01:58:03 PM
Good to see all that money going so well on game promotion and development of players

http://otoolesgac.ie/2016/11/07/senior-hurlers-wanted/ (http://otoolesgac.ie/2016/11/07/senior-hurlers-wanted/)

then as someone stated perhaps that money is only about developing elite players and not keeping kids in the game.

That advert is more akin to Senior Rugby than GAA.
That’s very true and it’s disappointing to say the least, that the CC and the Dublin CB haven’t recognised the fact.
I’m not being anti-Dub here but there are facts that shouldn’t be ignored. The superclub system that operates widely in Dublin is great for coaching elite players and bringing them through to senior level but this “success” comes at a hefty price.
Just compare County Cavan with Finglas, a suburb in  Dublin.


According to the last census returns, Cavan has a population of 76,000.
According to local garda sources, the K district, covering Finglas, Cabra and Blanchardstown has roughly the same amount.
The Cavan GAA site says the number of clubs in Cavan is 41.
The number of clubs in Finglas is one.
There is a slight overlap with St Brigid’s in Castleknock but to all intents and purposes, Erin’s Isle is the only GAA club that matters in Finglas. (There is another small junior club, St Joseph’s,and there is the Pavee Gaels club that caters exclusively for the Travelling community.


So one club in Finglas compared to 41 in Cavan.


In fairness to Isles, the club has good contacts with the Primary schools in the area and draws all its juvenile members from those schools but in recent times the number of males teaching at this level is dropping sharply and so is the commitment to Gaelic games.
Isles only gets a small percentage of potential juvenile players in its catchment area and the vast majority of those who join will either leave as they get older or are dropped due to a shortage of teams as the age level increases.
Soccer, by comparison, has Tolka Rovers, roughly equal in size to Isles and there are (at least) 14 other clubs in the general Finglas area.
No problem guessing what the dominant sport in this area is.
I have had associations with Isles going back many years and I have nothing but praise for their underage structures and the volunteers who look after teams but they are not winning the hearts and minds of the ordinary public and there are many other clubs in Isles’ position throughout County Dublin.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: manfromdelmonte on November 13, 2016, 12:14:21 PM
Good to see all that money going so well on game promotion and development of players

http://otoolesgac.ie/2016/11/07/senior-hurlers-wanted/ (http://otoolesgac.ie/2016/11/07/senior-hurlers-wanted/)

then as someone stated perhaps that money is only about developing elite players and not keeping kids in the game.

That advert is more akin to Senior Rugby than GAA.
That’s very true and it’s disappointing to say the least, that the CC and the Dublin CB haven’t recognised the fact.
I’m not being anti-Dub here but there are facts that shouldn’t be ignored. The superclub system that operates widely in Dublin is great for coaching elite players and bringing them through to senior level but this “success” comes at a hefty price.
Just compare County Cavan with Finglas, a suburb in  Dublin.


According to the last census returns, Cavan has a population of 76,000.
According to local garda sources, the K district, covering Finglas, Cabra and Blanchardstown has roughly the same amount.
The Cavan GAA site says the number of clubs in Cavan is 41.
The number of clubs in Finglas is one.
There is a slight overlap with St Brigid’s in Castleknock but to all intents and purposes, Erin’s Isle is the only GAA club that matters in Finglas. (There is another small junior club, St Joseph’s,and there is the Pavee Gaels club that caters exclusively for the Travelling community.


So one club in Finglas compared to 41 in Cavan.


In fairness to Isles, the club has good contacts with the Primary schools in the area and draws all its juvenile members from those schools but in recent times the number of males teaching at this level is dropping sharply and so is the commitment to Gaelic games.
Isles only gets a small percentage of potential juvenile players in its catchment area and the vast majority of those who join will either leave as they get older or are dropped due to a shortage of teams as the age level increases.
Soccer, by comparison, has Tolka Rovers, roughly equal in size to Isles and there are (at least) 14 other clubs in the general Finglas area.
No problem guessing what the dominant sport in this area is.
I have had associations with Isles going back many years and I have nothing but praise for their underage structures and the volunteers who look after teams but they are not winning the hearts and minds of the ordinary public and there are many other clubs in Isles’ position throughout County Dublin.
GAA should be about providing games for as many people as possible

super clubs don't do that
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Jinxy on November 14, 2016, 11:50:29 AM
Didn't Brigids do their best to throw a spanner in the works when Castleknock were trying to get established?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Hound on November 14, 2016, 03:25:24 PM
GAA should be about providing games for as many people as possible

super clubs don't do that
Why would you say that?

Super clubs have more teams, so everyone still gets to play. And when grading happens at around U12 or U13 (not sure exactly), then you're more likely to be graded at a level that suits you (whereas in a smaller club, you could be a great lad in a poor team, or a plodder in a good team). Still, having always been involved in a smaller club I wouldnt want to be with one of the super clubs, but don't think there's anything wrong with them per se.

Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: muppet on November 14, 2016, 03:48:34 PM
GAA should be about providing games for as many people as possible

super clubs don't do that
Why would you say that?

Super clubs have more teams, so everyone still gets to play. And when grading happens at around U12 or U13 (not sure exactly), then you're more likely to be graded at a level that suits you (whereas in a smaller club, you could be a great lad in a poor team, or a plodder in a good team). Still, having always been involved in a smaller club I wouldnt want to be with one of the super clubs, but don't think there's anything wrong with them per se.

Clubs with multiple teams at lower levels often keep lads involved who improve later, that might otherwise have quit in a one team set-up.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on November 14, 2016, 04:10:58 PM
GAA should be about providing games for as many people as possible

super clubs don't do that
Why would you say that?

Super clubs have more teams, so everyone still gets to play. And when grading happens at around U12 or U13 (not sure exactly), then you're more likely to be graded at a level that suits you (whereas in a smaller club, you could be a great lad in a poor team, or a plodder in a good team). Still, having always been involved in a smaller club I wouldnt want to be with one of the super clubs, but don't think there's anything wrong with them per se.

Clubs with multiple teams at lower levels often keep lads involved who improve later, that might otherwise have quit in a one team set-up.

In agreement with the two lads, "super clubs" will provide as many panels as their numbers allow. If their membership base increases significantly they will add another junior team. If they loose too many bodies they will take the bottom team out. There are pros and cons to both "super clubs" and the more traditional 1 or 2 team clubs.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on November 14, 2016, 04:12:31 PM
Didn't Brigids do their best to throw a spanner in the works when Castleknock were trying to get established?

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/castleknock-gaa-knocking-on-heaven-s-door-1.2855300 (http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/castleknock-gaa-knocking-on-heaven-s-door-1.2855300)
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Shamrock Shore on November 14, 2016, 04:38:47 PM
St. Vincents are off to play Mullinalaghta in Longford Sunday week.

The entire population of Mullinalaghta is 447. I would say the backroom staff in Vincents is around that number.

We'll see if their United Nations team with €€€€€€€€€€ attached compete  ;)
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Rossfan on November 14, 2016, 04:43:54 PM
Good one Sham  :D ;D
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Jinxy on November 14, 2016, 04:48:38 PM
One thing is for sure, Mullinalaghta won't fear St. Vincents.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: muppet on November 15, 2016, 01:28:40 AM
St. Vincents are off to play Mullinalaghta in Longford Sunday week.

The entire population of Mullinalaghta is 447. I would say the backroom staff in Vincents is around that number.

We'll see if their United Nations team with €€€€€€€€€€ attached compete  ;)

In fairness, that's a great age.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Lar Naparka on November 15, 2016, 11:31:02 AM
GAA should be about providing games for as many people as possible

super clubs don't do that
Why would you say that?

Super clubs have more teams, so everyone still gets to play. And when grading happens at around U12 or U13 (not sure exactly), then you're more likely to be graded at a level that suits you (whereas in a smaller club, you could be a great lad in a poor team, or a plodder in a good team). Still, having always been involved in a smaller club I wouldnt want to be with one of the super clubs, but don't think there's anything wrong with them per se.

Clubs with multiple teams at lower levels often keep lads involved who improve later, that might otherwise have quit in a one team set-up.
??
Clubs with multiple teams at lower levels will shed kids big time as they get older and the numbers of teams fielded decreases as they move up to higher levels.
Sure, some youngsters will drop out due to a variety of reasons and this is true of all sports but in GA  clubs with huge numbers of kids in the lower grades to start off with, will be forced to drop those who don’t make the cut.
One club I have been associated with can field up to a half dozen teams at u9s/u10s level without a bother but, ASAIK, have only two teams at u15 level. (Been a while since I was involved but I’ve n reason to believe that things are different now.)
I’ve seen many youngsters being terribly upset when told there wasn’t a place for them anymore.
Soccer in contrast can have clubs with only a pitch loaned by the city council and a disused 40 foot container to get going.
No wonder that a far higher % of children play soccer than Gaelic.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on November 15, 2016, 02:45:25 PM
GAA should be about providing games for as many people as possible

super clubs don't do that
Why would you say that?

Super clubs have more teams, so everyone still gets to play. And when grading happens at around U12 or U13 (not sure exactly), then you're more likely to be graded at a level that suits you (whereas in a smaller club, you could be a great lad in a poor team, or a plodder in a good team). Still, having always been involved in a smaller club I wouldnt want to be with one of the super clubs, but don't think there's anything wrong with them per se.

Clubs with multiple teams at lower levels often keep lads involved who improve later, that might otherwise have quit in a one team set-up.
??
Clubs with multiple teams at lower levels will shed kids big time as they get older and the numbers of teams fielded decreases as they move up to higher levels.
Sure, some youngsters will drop out due to a variety of reasons and this is true of all sports but in GA  clubs with huge numbers of kids in the lower grades to start off with, will be forced to drop those who don’t make the cut.
One club I have been associated with can field up to a half dozen teams at u9s/u10s level without a bother but, ASAIK, have only two teams at u15 level. (Been a while since I was involved but I’ve n reason to believe that things are different now.)
I’ve seen many youngsters being terribly upset when told there wasn’t a place for them anymore.
Soccer in contrast can have clubs with only a pitch loaned by the city council and a disused 40 foot container to get going.
No wonder that a far higher % of children play soccer than Gaelic.

GAA clubs lease pitches from councils and use containers as well. That's a shocking policy that club followed, I'd say they're in dire straits now because of it.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: muppet on November 15, 2016, 04:59:38 PM
GAA should be about providing games for as many people as possible

super clubs don't do that
Why would you say that?

Super clubs have more teams, so everyone still gets to play. And when grading happens at around U12 or U13 (not sure exactly), then you're more likely to be graded at a level that suits you (whereas in a smaller club, you could be a great lad in a poor team, or a plodder in a good team). Still, having always been involved in a smaller club I wouldnt want to be with one of the super clubs, but don't think there's anything wrong with them per se.

Clubs with multiple teams at lower levels often keep lads involved who improve later, that might otherwise have quit in a one team set-up.
??
Clubs with multiple teams at lower levels will shed kids big time as they get older and the numbers of teams fielded decreases as they move up to higher levels.
Sure, some youngsters will drop out due to a variety of reasons and this is true of all sports but in GA  clubs with huge numbers of kids in the lower grades to start off with, will be forced to drop those who don’t make the cut.
One club I have been associated with can field up to a half dozen teams at u9s/u10s level without a bother but, ASAIK, have only two teams at u15 level. (Been a while since I was involved but I’ve n reason to believe that things are different now.)
I’ve seen many youngsters being terribly upset when told there wasn’t a place for them anymore.
Soccer in contrast can have clubs with only a pitch loaned by the city council and a disused 40 foot container to get going.
No wonder that a far higher % of children play soccer than Gaelic.

GAA clubs lease pitches from councils and use containers as well. That's a shocking policy that club followed, I'd say they're in dire straits now because of it.

Agreed.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Lar Naparka on November 15, 2016, 10:27:02 PM
GAA should be about providing games for as many people as possible

super clubs don't do that
Why would you say that?

Super clubs have more teams, so everyone still gets to play. And when grading happens at around U12 or U13 (not sure exactly), then you're more likely to be graded at a level that suits you (whereas in a smaller club, you could be a great lad in a poor team, or a plodder in a good team). Still, having always been involved in a smaller club I wouldnt want to be with one of the super clubs, but don't think there's anything wrong with them per se.

Clubs with multiple teams at lower levels often keep lads involved who improve later, that might otherwise have quit in a one team set-up.
??
Clubs with multiple teams at lower levels will shed kids big time as they get older and the numbers of teams fielded decreases as they move up to higher levels.
Sure, some youngsters will drop out due to a variety of reasons and this is true of all sports but in GA  clubs with huge numbers of kids in the lower grades to start off with, will be forced to drop those who don’t make the cut.
One club I have been associated with can field up to a half dozen teams at u9s/u10s level without a bother but, ASAIK, have only two teams at u15 level. (Been a while since I was involved but I’ve n reason to believe that things are different now.)
I’ve seen many youngsters being terribly upset when told there wasn’t a place for them anymore.
Soccer in contrast can have clubs with only a pitch loaned by the city council and a disused 40 foot container to get going.
No wonder that a far higher % of children play soccer than Gaelic.

GAA clubs lease pitches from councils and use containers as well. That's a shocking policy that club followed, I'd say they're in dire straits now because of it.

But that’s the policy all very large clubs follow; there is no other feasible one. In my personal experience anyway, the vast majority of children that join a GAA club does so through their school. The vast majority will be gone by their Junior Cert year. 
Some would drop out anyway, as happens in other sports but most leave because they can no longer get a place on a team.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: blast05 on November 15, 2016, 11:12:21 PM
Quote
No wonder that a far higher % of children play soccer than Gaelic.

Where is this?
It is certainly not the case where i live.... 'west' Westmeath. Far more GAA clubs than soccer clubs and typically far greater numbers in those GAA clubs than in soccer clubs.
Membership price is hurting the underage soccer though ..... my local GAA club has a family membership cost of €100 which includes a weekly club lotto entry. The local soccer club has a membership cost for my young fella of €105
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on November 16, 2016, 11:26:31 AM
GAA should be about providing games for as many people as possible

super clubs don't do that
Why would you say that?

Super clubs have more teams, so everyone still gets to play. And when grading happens at around U12 or U13 (not sure exactly), then you're more likely to be graded at a level that suits you (whereas in a smaller club, you could be a great lad in a poor team, or a plodder in a good team). Still, having always been involved in a smaller club I wouldnt want to be with one of the super clubs, but don't think there's anything wrong with them per se.

Clubs with multiple teams at lower levels often keep lads involved who improve later, that might otherwise have quit in a one team set-up.
??
Clubs with multiple teams at lower levels will shed kids big time as they get older and the numbers of teams fielded decreases as they move up to higher levels.
Sure, some youngsters will drop out due to a variety of reasons and this is true of all sports but in GA  clubs with huge numbers of kids in the lower grades to start off with, will be forced to drop those who don’t make the cut.
One club I have been associated with can field up to a half dozen teams at u9s/u10s level without a bother but, ASAIK, have only two teams at u15 level. (Been a while since I was involved but I’ve n reason to believe that things are different now.)
I’ve seen many youngsters being terribly upset when told there wasn’t a place for them anymore.
Soccer in contrast can have clubs with only a pitch loaned by the city council and a disused 40 foot container to get going.
No wonder that a far higher % of children play soccer than Gaelic.

GAA clubs lease pitches from councils and use containers as well. That's a shocking policy that club followed, I'd say they're in dire straits now because of it.

But that’s the policy all very large clubs follow; there is no other feasible one. In my personal experience anyway, the vast majority of children that join a GAA club does so through their school. The vast majority will be gone by their Junior Cert year. 
Some would drop out anyway, as happens in other sports but most leave because they can no longer get a place on a team.

To the best of my knowledge Lar, the way all "super clubs" operate is they supply as many teams as their numbers cater for. Kids drop out of sports all the time unfortunately, they loose interest or want to try something else and GAA is no different. I'm shocked at your example above, I presume it was done due to lack of space/pitches? There's no doubt they drove away kids who in time would have been club stalwarts. I'd wager any money they are in a worse position now than when they enacted this policy, they are certainly the exception to the way the "super clubs" operate.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on November 16, 2016, 11:28:23 AM
And to keep to the title of the thread, the Friends of Dublin raised over 7 grand yesterday for a pair of AI tickets for next year and a signed Diarmuid Connolly jersey, SEVEN GRAND!  :o :o :o
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: AZOffaly on November 16, 2016, 11:29:53 AM
They should have asked Lee Keegan for one. With all the handfuls he's collected, he's bound to be able to stitch together a full jersey. :)
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Hound on November 16, 2016, 12:56:45 PM

To the best of my knowledge Lar, the way all "super clubs" operate is they supply as many teams as their numbers cater for. Kids drop out of sports all the time unfortunately, they loose interest or want to try something else and GAA is no different. I'm shocked at your example above, I presume it was done due to lack of space/pitches? There's no doubt they drove away kids who in time would have been club stalwarts. I'd wager any money they are in a worse position now than when they enacted this policy, they are certainly the exception to the way the "super clubs" operate.
Croi, I've never heard of a GAA club turning lads away because they're not good enough to make the team.

Yes, when it reaches U14 I think in Dublin, it becomes competitive and there's no guaranteee you'll play every week. But each club puts in as many teams as they can given the players available. So if you've 30, you'll put in two, if you've 45 you'll put in 3.  Sometimes that can mean a load of subs. What most clubs do is that for their lowest grade team, they will mix it up and try and give everyone a minimum amount of game time. Or have a squad system so they bring 20 to a game, so everyone who travels gets gametime, but everyone misses an odd game.

It can be difficult if you've 28 or 40 lads for everyone to get decent game time, but most clubs make the best of it.

A bigger problem, is for the many Dublin clubs who can only get 10 or so lads to turn up regularly at U14 and older. Then they're desperately scrounging around for lads from the team one year younger to try and make up the numbers. Awful when you have to concede a game because of lack of numbers.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on November 16, 2016, 01:07:39 PM

To the best of my knowledge Lar, the way all "super clubs" operate is they supply as many teams as their numbers cater for. Kids drop out of sports all the time unfortunately, they loose interest or want to try something else and GAA is no different. I'm shocked at your example above, I presume it was done due to lack of space/pitches? There's no doubt they drove away kids who in time would have been club stalwarts. I'd wager any money they are in a worse position now than when they enacted this policy, they are certainly the exception to the way the "super clubs" operate.
Croi, I've never heard of a GAA club turning lads away because they're not good enough to make the team.

Yes, when it reaches U14 I think in Dublin, it becomes competitive and there's no guaranteee you'll play every week. But each club puts in as many teams as they can given the players available. So if you've 30, you'll put in two, if you've 45 you'll put in 3.  Sometimes that can mean a load of subs. What most clubs do is that for their lowest grade team, they will mix it up and try and give everyone a minimum amount of game time. Or have a squad system so they bring 20 to a game, so everyone who travels gets gametime, but everyone misses an odd game.

It can be difficult if you've 28 or 40 lads for everyone to get decent game time, but most clubs make the best of it.

A bigger problem, is for the many Dublin clubs who can only get 10 or so lads to turn up regularly at U14 and older. Then they're desperately scrounging around for lads from the team one year younger to try and make up the numbers. Awful when you have to concede a game because of lack of numbers.

Agree with all that Hound, that tallies with all I've seen and heard.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Lar Naparka on November 16, 2016, 01:21:39 PM

To the best of my knowledge Lar, the way all "super clubs" operate is they supply as many teams as their numbers cater for. Kids drop out of sports all the time unfortunately, they loose interest or want to try something else and GAA is no different. I'm shocked at your example above, I presume it was done due to lack of space/pitches? There's no doubt they drove away kids who in time would have been club stalwarts. I'd wager any money they are in a worse position now than when they enacted this policy, they are certainly the exception to the way the "super clubs" operate.
Croi, I've never heard of a GAA club turning lads away because they're not good enough to make the team.

Yes, when it reaches U14 I think in Dublin, it becomes competitive and there's no guaranteee you'll play every week. But each club puts in as many teams as they can given the players available. So if you've 30, you'll put in two, if you've 45 you'll put in 3.  Sometimes that can mean a load of subs. What most clubs do is that for their lowest grade team, they will mix it up and try and give everyone a minimum amount of game time. Or have a squad system so they bring 20 to a game, so everyone who travels gets gametime, but everyone misses an odd game.

It can be difficult if you've 28 or 40 lads for everyone to get decent game time, but most clubs make the best of it.

A bigger problem, is for the many Dublin clubs who can only get 10 or so lads to turn up regularly at U14 and older. Then they're desperately scrounging around for lads from the team one year younger to try and make up the numbers. Awful when you have to concede a game because of lack of numbers.
I’ve seen it happen all the time and I’ve been involved with a few Dublin clubs for decades.
It’s not the fault of team managers or anyone connected with the clubs, it’s a case that the number of teams fielded in any given year decreases as players moves up the age levels.
That happens for all clubs but if you were to compare a huge club with, say, a total of four smaller ones, you’ll find that the kids who join tend to stay around longer as there’s less pressure for places as the age levels go up.


Four small clubs will field four senior sides.
One superclub will field one senior side.


Supposing the players in each scenario are drawn from roughly the same catchment area;without doubt the side fielded by the mega club would be better than any of the sides from any one of the smaller clubs. But my point is that, in the second case, there would be a far greater number of players still actively engaged in playing Gaelic football.
To repeat, Erin’s Isle, my favourite Dublin club, and by no means one of the bigger ones, has a catchment area roughly in numbers equal to County Cavan with its 41 smaller clubs.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on November 16, 2016, 05:25:26 PM

To the best of my knowledge Lar, the way all "super clubs" operate is they supply as many teams as their numbers cater for. Kids drop out of sports all the time unfortunately, they loose interest or want to try something else and GAA is no different. I'm shocked at your example above, I presume it was done due to lack of space/pitches? There's no doubt they drove away kids who in time would have been club stalwarts. I'd wager any money they are in a worse position now than when they enacted this policy, they are certainly the exception to the way the "super clubs" operate.
Croi, I've never heard of a GAA club turning lads away because they're not good enough to make the team.

Yes, when it reaches U14 I think in Dublin, it becomes competitive and there's no guaranteee you'll play every week. But each club puts in as many teams as they can given the players available. So if you've 30, you'll put in two, if you've 45 you'll put in 3.  Sometimes that can mean a load of subs. What most clubs do is that for their lowest grade team, they will mix it up and try and give everyone a minimum amount of game time. Or have a squad system so they bring 20 to a game, so everyone who travels gets gametime, but everyone misses an odd game.

It can be difficult if you've 28 or 40 lads for everyone to get decent game time, but most clubs make the best of it.

A bigger problem, is for the many Dublin clubs who can only get 10 or so lads to turn up regularly at U14 and older. Then they're desperately scrounging around for lads from the team one year younger to try and make up the numbers. Awful when you have to concede a game because of lack of numbers.
I’ve seen it happen all the time and I’ve been involved with a few Dublin clubs for decades.
It’s not the fault of team managers or anyone connected with the clubs, it’s a case that the number of teams fielded in any given year decreases as players moves up the age levels.
That happens for all clubs but if you were to compare a huge club with, say, a total of four smaller ones, you’ll find that the kids who join tend to stay around longer as there’s less pressure for places as the age levels go up.


Four small clubs will field four senior sides.
One superclub will field one senior side.


Supposing the players in each scenario are drawn from roughly the same catchment area;without doubt the side fielded by the mega club would be better than any of the sides from any one of the smaller clubs. But my point is that, in the second case, there would be a far greater number of players still actively engaged in playing Gaelic football.
To repeat, Erin’s Isle, my favourite Dublin club, and by no means one of the bigger ones, has a catchment area roughly in numbers equal to County Cavan with its 41 smaller clubs.

Seen what happen all the time Lar, players falling away naturally or players being told there wasn't room for them at the club? Hell of a difference between both senarios.

Regarding Dublin clubs and their huge catchment areas, there is no doubt that they don't concentrate on all the available talent to them. Take Erin’s Isle for example, I'm sure they have their traditional primary feeder schools in the immediate area that they go into and will get all the interested talent from. But there would also be primary schools on the edge of their catchment area that they would be relying on either an interested teacher or parent driving the kids up to the club. If Erin’s Isle wants to get back winning Dublin championships they'd have to expand their recruitment strategy, get around to all the primary schools in the area and get them all up to the club on Saturday mornings from the age of 4. Provide as many teams as they have numbers for and keep as many kids as interested for as long as they can. It's not rocket science but it will be bloody hard work.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Lar Naparka on November 16, 2016, 07:36:34 PM

To the best of my knowledge Lar, the way all "super clubs" operate is they supply as many teams as their numbers cater for. Kids drop out of sports all the time unfortunately, they loose interest or want to try something else and GAA is no different. I'm shocked at your example above, I presume it was done due to lack of space/pitches? There's no doubt they drove away kids who in time would have been club stalwarts. I'd wager any money they are in a worse position now than when they enacted this policy, they are certainly the exception to the way the "super clubs" operate.
Croi, I've never heard of a GAA club turning lads away because they're not good enough to make the team.

Yes, when it reaches U14 I think in Dublin, it becomes competitive and there's no guaranteee you'll play every week. But each club puts in as many teams as they can given the players available. So if you've 30, you'll put in two, if you've 45 you'll put in 3.  Sometimes that can mean a load of subs. What most clubs do is that for their lowest grade team, they will mix it up and try and give everyone a minimum amount of game time. Or have a squad system so they bring 20 to a game, so everyone who travels gets gametime, but everyone misses an odd game.

It can be difficult if you've 28 or 40 lads for everyone to get decent game time, but most clubs make the best of it.

A bigger problem, is for the many Dublin clubs who can only get 10 or so lads to turn up regularly at U14 and older. Then they're desperately scrounging around for lads from the team one year younger to try and make up the numbers. Awful when you have to concede a game because of lack of numbers.
I’ve seen it happen all the time and I’ve been involved with a few Dublin clubs for decades.
It’s not the fault of team managers or anyone connected with the clubs, it’s a case that the number of teams fielded in any given year decreases as players moves up the age levels.
That happens for all clubs but if you were to compare a huge club with, say, a total of four smaller ones, you’ll find that the kids who join tend to stay around longer as there’s less pressure for places as the age levels go up.


Four small clubs will field four senior sides.
One superclub will field one senior side.


Supposing the players in each scenario are drawn from roughly the same catchment area;without doubt the side fielded by the mega club would be better than any of the sides from any one of the smaller clubs. But my point is that, in the second case, there would be a far greater number of players still actively engaged in playing Gaelic football.
To repeat, Erin’s Isle, my favourite Dublin club, and by no means one of the bigger ones, has a catchment area roughly in numbers equal to County Cavan with its 41 smaller clubs.

Seen what happen all the time Lar, players falling away naturally or players being told there wasn't room for them at the club? Hell of a difference between both senarios.

Regarding Dublin clubs and their huge catchment areas, there is no doubt that they don't concentrate on all the available talent to them. Take Erin’s Isle for example, I'm sure they have their traditional primary feeder schools in the immediate area that they go into and will get all the interested talent from. But there would also be primary schools on the edge of their catchment area that they would be relying on either an interested teacher or parent driving the kids up to the club. If Erin’s Isle wants to get back winning Dublin championships they'd have to expand their recruitment strategy, get around to all the primary schools in the area and get them all up to the club on Saturday mornings from the age of 4. Provide as many teams as they have numbers for and keep as many kids as interested for as long as they can. It's not rocket science but it will be bloody hard work.
Actually, I’ve been going to great lengths to emphasise that I’m referring to both types of dropouts. Both are inevitable consequences of young players growing up. My point is that the  superclubs approach is not the best way to entice children to join a GAA club or to keep them involved until they are old enough to make up their own minds.
Such clubs offer many advantages to incoming players that small, more localised units can’t offer but their dropout rates, for either reason, tend to be much higher.
As you put it diplomatically, Dublin clubs and their huge catchment areas, don't concentrate on all the available talent to them but I’d also add that they don’t do a good job of holding onto them either. Nothing personal here; it’s just the way the system operates.
One of my nephews played hurling with Ballyboden until the end of his u14 season.  There had been four sides fielded by the club then at the time but the lad was devastated to find that there would be only two sides at u15 level and that he was not going to get his place.
Now, I don’t particularly want to blame anyone for this - something similar happens in most clubs all the time. I can’t offhand think of any club I’m familiar with that fields more than two minor level teams. (May be open to correction here but I don’t think so.)
What is indisputable is that any club fielding 6 or 7 u9s sides or the likes won’t be able to give places to all kids who want to stay on as they move up the ranks.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Rossfan on November 16, 2016, 11:19:18 PM
I see they have to travel to Wexford or Portlaoise for the Leinster Q Final.
I imagine the Laoishites won't be too impressed - they couldn't play Dublin in O'Moore Park but Carlow can!
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Beffs on November 16, 2016, 11:43:58 PM
Bitta egg on the faces of the Leinster Council there. Portlaoise wasn't good enough, or big enough to host the Dubs last year, but it is this year? Okey dokey then.  ::)
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on November 17, 2016, 09:51:20 AM

To the best of my knowledge Lar, the way all "super clubs" operate is they supply as many teams as their numbers cater for. Kids drop out of sports all the time unfortunately, they loose interest or want to try something else and GAA is no different. I'm shocked at your example above, I presume it was done due to lack of space/pitches? There's no doubt they drove away kids who in time would have been club stalwarts. I'd wager any money they are in a worse position now than when they enacted this policy, they are certainly the exception to the way the "super clubs" operate.
Croi, I've never heard of a GAA club turning lads away because they're not good enough to make the team.

Yes, when it reaches U14 I think in Dublin, it becomes competitive and there's no guaranteee you'll play every week. But each club puts in as many teams as they can given the players available. So if you've 30, you'll put in two, if you've 45 you'll put in 3.  Sometimes that can mean a load of subs. What most clubs do is that for their lowest grade team, they will mix it up and try and give everyone a minimum amount of game time. Or have a squad system so they bring 20 to a game, so everyone who travels gets gametime, but everyone misses an odd game.

It can be difficult if you've 28 or 40 lads for everyone to get decent game time, but most clubs make the best of it.

A bigger problem, is for the many Dublin clubs who can only get 10 or so lads to turn up regularly at U14 and older. Then they're desperately scrounging around for lads from the team one year younger to try and make up the numbers. Awful when you have to concede a game because of lack of numbers.
I’ve seen it happen all the time and I’ve been involved with a few Dublin clubs for decades.
It’s not the fault of team managers or anyone connected with the clubs, it’s a case that the number of teams fielded in any given year decreases as players moves up the age levels.
That happens for all clubs but if you were to compare a huge club with, say, a total of four smaller ones, you’ll find that the kids who join tend to stay around longer as there’s less pressure for places as the age levels go up.


Four small clubs will field four senior sides.
One superclub will field one senior side.


Supposing the players in each scenario are drawn from roughly the same catchment area;without doubt the side fielded by the mega club would be better than any of the sides from any one of the smaller clubs. But my point is that, in the second case, there would be a far greater number of players still actively engaged in playing Gaelic football.
To repeat, Erin’s Isle, my favourite Dublin club, and by no means one of the bigger ones, has a catchment area roughly in numbers equal to County Cavan with its 41 smaller clubs.

Seen what happen all the time Lar, players falling away naturally or players being told there wasn't room for them at the club? Hell of a difference between both senarios.

Regarding Dublin clubs and their huge catchment areas, there is no doubt that they don't concentrate on all the available talent to them. Take Erin’s Isle for example, I'm sure they have their traditional primary feeder schools in the immediate area that they go into and will get all the interested talent from. But there would also be primary schools on the edge of their catchment area that they would be relying on either an interested teacher or parent driving the kids up to the club. If Erin’s Isle wants to get back winning Dublin championships they'd have to expand their recruitment strategy, get around to all the primary schools in the area and get them all up to the club on Saturday mornings from the age of 4. Provide as many teams as they have numbers for and keep as many kids as interested for as long as they can. It's not rocket science but it will be bloody hard work.
Actually, I’ve been going to great lengths to emphasise that I’m referring to both types of dropouts. Both are inevitable consequences of young players growing up. My point is that the  superclubs approach is not the best way to entice children to join a GAA club or to keep them involved until they are old enough to make up their own minds.
Such clubs offer many advantages to incoming players that small, more localised units can’t offer but their dropout rates, for either reason, tend to be much higher.
As you put it diplomatically, Dublin clubs and their huge catchment areas, don't concentrate on all the available talent to them but I’d also add that they don’t do a good job of holding onto them either. Nothing personal here; it’s just the way the system operates.
One of my nephews played hurling with Ballyboden until the end of his u14 season.  There had been four sides fielded by the club then at the time but the lad was devastated to find that there would be only two sides at u15 level and that he was not going to get his place.
Now, I don’t particularly want to blame anyone for this - something similar happens in most clubs all the time. I can’t offhand think of any club I’m familiar with that fields more than two minor level teams. (May be open to correction here but I don’t think so.)
What is indisputable is that any club fielding 6 or 7 u9s sides or the likes won’t be able to give places to all kids who want to stay on as they move up the ranks.

When did that happen Lar? Ballyboden have 3 minor football teams for a start and with people dropping away naturally that filters down to 2 u21 teams.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Lar Naparka on November 17, 2016, 11:49:27 AM

To the best of my knowledge Lar, the way all "super clubs" operate is they supply as many teams as their numbers cater for. Kids drop out of sports all the time unfortunately, they loose interest or want to try something else and GAA is no different. I'm shocked at your example above, I presume it was done due to lack of space/pitches? There's no doubt they drove away kids who in time would have been club stalwarts. I'd wager any money they are in a worse position now than when they enacted this policy, they are certainly the exception to the way the "super clubs" operate.
Croi, I've never heard of a GAA club turning lads away because they're not good enough to make the team.

Yes, when it reaches U14 I think in Dublin, it becomes competitive and there's no guaranteee you'll play every week. But each club puts in as many teams as they can given the players available. So if you've 30, you'll put in two, if you've 45 you'll put in 3.  Sometimes that can mean a load of subs. What most clubs do is that for their lowest grade team, they will mix it up and try and give everyone a minimum amount of game time. Or have a squad system so they bring 20 to a game, so everyone who travels gets gametime, but everyone misses an odd game.

It can be difficult if you've 28 or 40 lads for everyone to get decent game time, but most clubs make the best of it.

A bigger problem, is for the many Dublin clubs who can only get 10 or so lads to turn up regularly at U14 and older. Then they're desperately scrounging around for lads from the team one year younger to try and make up the numbers. Awful when you have to concede a game because of lack of numbers.
I’ve seen it happen all the time and I’ve been involved with a few Dublin clubs for decades.
It’s not the fault of team managers or anyone connected with the clubs, it’s a case that the number of teams fielded in any given year decreases as players moves up the age levels.
That happens for all clubs but if you were to compare a huge club with, say, a total of four smaller ones, you’ll find that the kids who join tend to stay around longer as there’s less pressure for places as the age levels go up.


Four small clubs will field four senior sides.
One superclub will field one senior side.


Supposing the players in each scenario are drawn from roughly the same catchment area;without doubt the side fielded by the mega club would be better than any of the sides from any one of the smaller clubs. But my point is that, in the second case, there would be a far greater number of players still actively engaged in playing Gaelic football.
To repeat, Erin’s Isle, my favourite Dublin club, and by no means one of the bigger ones, has a catchment area roughly in numbers equal to County Cavan with its 41 smaller clubs.

Seen what happen all the time Lar, players falling away naturally or players being told there wasn't room for them at the club? Hell of a difference between both senarios.

Regarding Dublin clubs and their huge catchment areas, there is no doubt that they don't concentrate on all the available talent to them. Take Erin’s Isle for example, I'm sure they have their traditional primary feeder schools in the immediate area that they go into and will get all the interested talent from. But there would also be primary schools on the edge of their catchment area that they would be relying on either an interested teacher or parent driving the kids up to the club. If Erin’s Isle wants to get back winning Dublin championships they'd have to expand their recruitment strategy, get around to all the primary schools in the area and get them all up to the club on Saturday mornings from the age of 4. Provide as many teams as they have numbers for and keep as many kids as interested for as long as they can. It's not rocket science but it will be bloody hard work.
Actually, I’ve been going to great lengths to emphasise that I’m referring to both types of dropouts. Both are inevitable consequences of young players growing up. My point is that the  superclubs approach is not the best way to entice children to join a GAA club or to keep them involved until they are old enough to make up their own minds.
Such clubs offer many advantages to incoming players that small, more localised units can’t offer but their dropout rates, for either reason, tend to be much higher.
As you put it diplomatically, Dublin clubs and their huge catchment areas, don't concentrate on all the available talent to them but I’d also add that they don’t do a good job of holding onto them either. Nothing personal here; it’s just the way the system operates.
One of my nephews played hurling with Ballyboden until the end of his u14 season.  There had been four sides fielded by the club then at the time but the lad was devastated to find that there would be only two sides at u15 level and that he was not going to get his place.
Now, I don’t particularly want to blame anyone for this - something similar happens in most clubs all the time. I can’t offhand think of any club I’m familiar with that fields more than two minor level teams. (May be open to correction here but I don’t think so.)
What is indisputable is that any club fielding 6 or 7 u9s sides or the likes won’t be able to give places to all kids who want to stay on as they move up the ranks.

When did that happen Lar? Ballyboden have 3 minor football teams for a start and with people dropping away naturally that filters down to 2 u21 teams.
Well, he's 23 now so that's about six years ago. But note I was talking about u15 hurling and not u18 football.  I'd imagine that more play football than hurling but I could be wrong. However, he wasn't the only one who was told that he'd not get a game anymore. From what I was told there was a definite cull in numbers at that age level. I accept what you say about three minors feeding into 2 u21s okay. That's what one would expect.
However, Ballyboden would have (still, I presume) far more than 3 u10s.
Even if the improbable were true and those who didn't get to play minor had left of their own volition, it's still a very inefficient way of getting youngsters to join and stay with a Gaelic club.
BTW, I've nothing personal against any Dublin club or Jim Gavin & Co. for that matter. I also realise tat for practical reasons, the superclubs are going to be around for the foreseeable future.
MY point all along is that the CC in pouring money into the present Dublin club sceneis helping to perpetuate a system with significant flaws.
I mentioned Isles because there's no other, similar club in its vicinity so it has a well-defined catchment area. This happens to be equal in population to the entire county of Cavan. Cavan is hardly likely to win an AI anytime soon but it has a thriving and energetic football community and, between its 41 clubs, a helluva lot more Gaelic players that Isles has.
If by some stroke of I dunno whatever, black magic maybe, the entire island was to adopt the Dublin model and hoover up all players into huge clubs such as 'Boden or Vincents, what future would there be for the GAA?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Zulu on November 17, 2016, 12:34:22 PM
But you can't just create clubs in cities. You need playing facilities and people willing to drive it. I doubt anyone would argue that it's ideal to have a club catering for 50-60,000 people but it isn't easy to solve that problem, especially in built up areas where available land is limited and expensive.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on November 17, 2016, 12:40:09 PM

To the best of my knowledge Lar, the way all "super clubs" operate is they supply as many teams as their numbers cater for. Kids drop out of sports all the time unfortunately, they loose interest or want to try something else and GAA is no different. I'm shocked at your example above, I presume it was done due to lack of space/pitches? There's no doubt they drove away kids who in time would have been club stalwarts. I'd wager any money they are in a worse position now than when they enacted this policy, they are certainly the exception to the way the "super clubs" operate.
Croi, I've never heard of a GAA club turning lads away because they're not good enough to make the team.

Yes, when it reaches U14 I think in Dublin, it becomes competitive and there's no guaranteee you'll play every week. But each club puts in as many teams as they can given the players available. So if you've 30, you'll put in two, if you've 45 you'll put in 3.  Sometimes that can mean a load of subs. What most clubs do is that for their lowest grade team, they will mix it up and try and give everyone a minimum amount of game time. Or have a squad system so they bring 20 to a game, so everyone who travels gets gametime, but everyone misses an odd game.

It can be difficult if you've 28 or 40 lads for everyone to get decent game time, but most clubs make the best of it.

A bigger problem, is for the many Dublin clubs who can only get 10 or so lads to turn up regularly at U14 and older. Then they're desperately scrounging around for lads from the team one year younger to try and make up the numbers. Awful when you have to concede a game because of lack of numbers.
I’ve seen it happen all the time and I’ve been involved with a few Dublin clubs for decades.
It’s not the fault of team managers or anyone connected with the clubs, it’s a case that the number of teams fielded in any given year decreases as players moves up the age levels.
That happens for all clubs but if you were to compare a huge club with, say, a total of four smaller ones, you’ll find that the kids who join tend to stay around longer as there’s less pressure for places as the age levels go up.


Four small clubs will field four senior sides.
One superclub will field one senior side.


Supposing the players in each scenario are drawn from roughly the same catchment area;without doubt the side fielded by the mega club would be better than any of the sides from any one of the smaller clubs. But my point is that, in the second case, there would be a far greater number of players still actively engaged in playing Gaelic football.
To repeat, Erin’s Isle, my favourite Dublin club, and by no means one of the bigger ones, has a catchment area roughly in numbers equal to County Cavan with its 41 smaller clubs.

Seen what happen all the time Lar, players falling away naturally or players being told there wasn't room for them at the club? Hell of a difference between both senarios.

Regarding Dublin clubs and their huge catchment areas, there is no doubt that they don't concentrate on all the available talent to them. Take Erin’s Isle for example, I'm sure they have their traditional primary feeder schools in the immediate area that they go into and will get all the interested talent from. But there would also be primary schools on the edge of their catchment area that they would be relying on either an interested teacher or parent driving the kids up to the club. If Erin’s Isle wants to get back winning Dublin championships they'd have to expand their recruitment strategy, get around to all the primary schools in the area and get them all up to the club on Saturday mornings from the age of 4. Provide as many teams as they have numbers for and keep as many kids as interested for as long as they can. It's not rocket science but it will be bloody hard work.
Actually, I’ve been going to great lengths to emphasise that I’m referring to both types of dropouts. Both are inevitable consequences of young players growing up. My point is that the  superclubs approach is not the best way to entice children to join a GAA club or to keep them involved until they are old enough to make up their own minds.
Such clubs offer many advantages to incoming players that small, more localised units can’t offer but their dropout rates, for either reason, tend to be much higher.
As you put it diplomatically, Dublin clubs and their huge catchment areas, don't concentrate on all the available talent to them but I’d also add that they don’t do a good job of holding onto them either. Nothing personal here; it’s just the way the system operates.
One of my nephews played hurling with Ballyboden until the end of his u14 season.  There had been four sides fielded by the club then at the time but the lad was devastated to find that there would be only two sides at u15 level and that he was not going to get his place.
Now, I don’t particularly want to blame anyone for this - something similar happens in most clubs all the time. I can’t offhand think of any club I’m familiar with that fields more than two minor level teams. (May be open to correction here but I don’t think so.)
What is indisputable is that any club fielding 6 or 7 u9s sides or the likes won’t be able to give places to all kids who want to stay on as they move up the ranks.

When did that happen Lar? Ballyboden have 3 minor football teams for a start and with people dropping away naturally that filters down to 2 u21 teams.
Well, he's 23 now so that's about six years ago. But note I was talking about u15 hurling and not u18 football.  I'd imagine that more play football than hurling but I could be wrong. However, he wasn't the only one who was told that he'd not get a game anymore. From what I was told there was a definite cull in numbers at that age level. I accept what you say about three minors feeding into 2 u21s okay. That's what one would expect.
However, Ballyboden would have (still, I presume) far more than 3 u10s.
Even if the improbable were true and those who didn't get to play minor had left of their own volition, it's still a very inefficient way of getting youngsters to join and stay with a Gaelic club.
BTW, I've nothing personal against any Dublin club or Jim Gavin & Co. for that matter. I also realise tat for practical reasons, the superclubs are going to be around for the foreseeable future.
MY point all along is that the CC in pouring money into the present Dublin club sceneis helping to perpetuate a system with significant flaws.
I mentioned Isles because there's no other, similar club in its vicinity so it has a well-defined catchment area. This happens to be equal in population to the entire county of Cavan. Cavan is hardly likely to win an AI anytime soon but it has a thriving and energetic football community and, between its 41 clubs, a helluva lot more Gaelic players that Isles has.
If by some stroke of I dunno whatever, black magic maybe, the entire island was to adopt the Dublin model and hoover up all players into huge clubs such as 'Boden or Vincents, what future would there be for the GAA?
Will check that out Lar but I'd be shocked if they went from 4 teams at u14 to 2 at u15. You don't loose 2 teams over the course of a year. I would agree that some of these catchment areas are too big but the space to base new teams just isn't there inside the M50.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Hound on November 17, 2016, 01:09:21 PM
Will check that out Lar but I'd be shocked if they went from 4 teams at u14 to 2 at u15. You don't loose 2 teams over the course of a year. I would agree that some of these catchment areas are too big but the space to base new teams just isn't there inside the M50.

There's just no way Ballyboden told lads at U15, "you're just not good enough, clear off"
Not a hope.

At under 15 level, I think matches move from Saturday to Sunday, so it brings a clash with soccer, and at that age anyway with exams coming on the scene it's very hard to combine soccer and GAA, like it would have been in previous years, so there's a natural drop off of lads who choose one code, and lads who give up altogether.
But if Ballyboden had only 2 teams, then it was because they didn't have enough lads to make up a 3rd team.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Hound on November 17, 2016, 01:17:54 PM
To repeat, Erin’s Isle, my favourite Dublin club, and by no means one of the bigger ones, has a catchment area roughly in numbers equal to County Cavan with its 41 smaller clubs.
Erin's Isle may have one of the biggest catchment areas in Dublin, but they'd hardly be in the Top 15 of big clubs in Dublin in terms of membership / playing numbers. Because Erin's Isle's catchment area is almost irrelevant.

It's like picking a club up North and saying they get very poor numbers given the big catchment area they have, and it turns out 75% of the people in their area are protestant and most of them wouldn't send their kids to a GAA club.

Finglas is soccer land. That's just a simple fact. And you'd have a sizeable proportion of locals in Finglas who clean hate the GAA, and wouldn't turn on a gaelic match unless they thought they might see the Dubs get beaten and wouldn't dream of letting their lads near a GAA club. And each of those fathers would have a story of how they were slighted by GAA during the Ban. (and of course it's not only Finglas that has sizeable soccer areas)
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Gael85 on November 17, 2016, 03:35:46 PM
I believe Erins Isle took their eye off the ball. Na Fianna and Ballymun have started to recruit from their feeder schools. A couple Balyymun Kickhams players including Alan Hubbard are from Finglas
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Gael85 on November 17, 2016, 03:50:07 PM
Good to see all that money going so well on game promotion and development of players

http://otoolesgac.ie/2016/11/07/senior-hurlers-wanted/ (http://otoolesgac.ie/2016/11/07/senior-hurlers-wanted/)

then as someone stated perhaps that money is only about developing elite players and not keeping kids in the game.

That advert is more akin to Senior Rugby than GAA.
That’s very true and it’s disappointing to say the least, that the CC and the Dublin CB haven’t recognised the fact.
I’m not being anti-Dub here but there are facts that shouldn’t be ignored. The superclub system that operates widely in Dublin is great for coaching elite players and bringing them through to senior level but this “success” comes at a hefty price.
Just compare County Cavan with Finglas, a suburb in  Dublin.


According to the last census returns, Cavan has a population of 76,000.
According to local garda sources, the K district, covering Finglas, Cabra and Blanchardstown has roughly the same amount.
The Cavan GAA site says the number of clubs in Cavan is 41.
The number of clubs in Finglas is one.
There is a slight overlap with St Brigid’s in Castleknock but to all intents and purposes, Erin’s Isle is the only GAA club that matters in Finglas. (There is another small junior club, St Joseph’s,and there is the Pavee Gaels club that caters exclusively for the Travelling community.


So one club in Finglas compared to 41 in Cavan.


In fairness to Isles, the club has good contacts with the Primary schools in the area and draws all its juvenile members from those schools but in recent times the number of males teaching at this level is dropping sharply and so is the commitment to Gaelic games.
Isles only gets a small percentage of potential juvenile players in its catchment area and the vast majority of those who join will either leave as they get older or are dropped due to a shortage of teams as the age level increases.
Soccer, by comparison, has Tolka Rovers, roughly equal in size to Isles and there are (at least) 14 other clubs in the general Finglas area.
No problem guessing what the dominant sport in this area is.
I have had associations with Isles going back many years and I have nothing but praise for their underage structures and the volunteers who look after teams but they are not winning the hearts and minds of the ordinary public and there are many other clubs in Isles’ position throughout County Dublin.

St Josephs and Pavee have no association with Finlgas. They are based in North Inner City and Traveller Pavee play home games in St Vincents school in Glasnevin. Erins Isle are losing a lot of players in feeder schools to Na Fianna and Ballymun. A lot of their players from 1998 team that got to club final moved onto rival club or down the country.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: shark on November 17, 2016, 03:57:27 PM
Good to see all that money going so well on game promotion and development of players

http://otoolesgac.ie/2016/11/07/senior-hurlers-wanted/ (http://otoolesgac.ie/2016/11/07/senior-hurlers-wanted/)

then as someone stated perhaps that money is only about developing elite players and not keeping kids in the game.

That advert is more akin to Senior Rugby than GAA.
That’s very true and it’s disappointing to say the least, that the CC and the Dublin CB haven’t recognised the fact.
I’m not being anti-Dub here but there are facts that shouldn’t be ignored. The superclub system that operates widely in Dublin is great for coaching elite players and bringing them through to senior level but this “success” comes at a hefty price.
Just compare County Cavan with Finglas, a suburb in  Dublin.


According to the last census returns, Cavan has a population of 76,000.
According to local garda sources, the K district, covering Finglas, Cabra and Blanchardstown has roughly the same amount.
The Cavan GAA site says the number of clubs in Cavan is 41.
The number of clubs in Finglas is one.
There is a slight overlap with St Brigid’s in Castleknock but to all intents and purposes, Erin’s Isle is the only GAA club that matters in Finglas. (There is another small junior club, St Joseph’s,and there is the Pavee Gaels club that caters exclusively for the Travelling community.


So one club in Finglas compared to 41 in Cavan.


In fairness to Isles, the club has good contacts with the Primary schools in the area and draws all its juvenile members from those schools but in recent times the number of males teaching at this level is dropping sharply and so is the commitment to Gaelic games.
Isles only gets a small percentage of potential juvenile players in its catchment area and the vast majority of those who join will either leave as they get older or are dropped due to a shortage of teams as the age level increases.
Soccer, by comparison, has Tolka Rovers, roughly equal in size to Isles and there are (at least) 14 other clubs in the general Finglas area.
No problem guessing what the dominant sport in this area is.
I have had associations with Isles going back many years and I have nothing but praise for their underage structures and the volunteers who look after teams but they are not winning the hearts and minds of the ordinary public and there are many other clubs in Isles’ position throughout County Dublin.

St Josephs and Pavee have no association with Finlgas. They are based in North Inner City and Traveller Pavee play home games in St Vincents school in Glasnevin. Erins Isle are losing a lot of players in feeder schools to Na Fianna and Ballymun. A lot of their players from 1998 team that got to club final moved onto rival club or down the country.

My club in Westmeath are lucky enough to have one of them. Doing huge work with our underage.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Gael85 on November 17, 2016, 04:01:03 PM
Will check that out Lar but I'd be shocked if they went from 4 teams at u14 to 2 at u15. You don't loose 2 teams over the course of a year. I would agree that some of these catchment areas are too big but the space to base new teams just isn't there inside the M50.

There's just no way Ballyboden told lads at U15, "you're just not good enough, clear off"
Not a hope.

At under 15 level, I think matches move from Saturday to Sunday, so it brings a clash with soccer, and at that age anyway with exams coming on the scene it's very hard to combine soccer and GAA, like it would have been in previous years, so there's a natural drop off of lads who choose one code, and lads who give up altogether.
But if Ballyboden had only 2 teams, then it was because they didn't have enough lads to make up a 3rd team.


U14 & U16 are Saturday afternoons. u15 and minor are Sunday mornings which clashes. My own club suffers badly when clashes with soccer
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Gael85 on November 17, 2016, 04:02:16 PM
Good to see all that money going so well on game promotion and development of players

http://otoolesgac.ie/2016/11/07/senior-hurlers-wanted/ (http://otoolesgac.ie/2016/11/07/senior-hurlers-wanted/)

then as someone stated perhaps that money is only about developing elite players and not keeping kids in the game.

That advert is more akin to Senior Rugby than GAA.
That’s very true and it’s disappointing to say the least, that the CC and the Dublin CB haven’t recognised the fact.
I’m not being anti-Dub here but there are facts that shouldn’t be ignored. The superclub system that operates widely in Dublin is great for coaching elite players and bringing them through to senior level but this “success” comes at a hefty price.
Just compare County Cavan with Finglas, a suburb in  Dublin.


According to the last census returns, Cavan has a population of 76,000.
According to local garda sources, the K district, covering Finglas, Cabra and Blanchardstown has roughly the same amount.
The Cavan GAA site says the number of clubs in Cavan is 41.
The number of clubs in Finglas is one.
There is a slight overlap with St Brigid’s in Castleknock but to all intents and purposes, Erin’s Isle is the only GAA club that matters in Finglas. (There is another small junior club, St Joseph’s,and there is the Pavee Gaels club that caters exclusively for the Travelling community.


So one club in Finglas compared to 41 in Cavan.


In fairness to Isles, the club has good contacts with the Primary schools in the area and draws all its juvenile members from those schools but in recent times the number of males teaching at this level is dropping sharply and so is the commitment to Gaelic games.
Isles only gets a small percentage of potential juvenile players in its catchment area and the vast majority of those who join will either leave as they get older or are dropped due to a shortage of teams as the age level increases.
Soccer, by comparison, has Tolka Rovers, roughly equal in size to Isles and there are (at least) 14 other clubs in the general Finglas area.
No problem guessing what the dominant sport in this area is.
I have had associations with Isles going back many years and I have nothing but praise for their underage structures and the volunteers who look after teams but they are not winning the hearts and minds of the ordinary public and there are many other clubs in Isles’ position throughout County Dublin.

St Josephs and Pavee have no association with Finlgas. They are based in North Inner City and Traveller Pavee play home games in St Vincents school in Glasnevin. Erins Isle are losing a lot of players in feeder schools to Na Fianna and Ballymun. A lot of their players from 1998 team that got to club final moved onto rival club or down the country.

My club in Westmeath are lucky enough to have one of them. Doing huge work with our underage.

Which player is that?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: shark on November 17, 2016, 04:09:45 PM
Good to see all that money going so well on game promotion and development of players

http://otoolesgac.ie/2016/11/07/senior-hurlers-wanted/ (http://otoolesgac.ie/2016/11/07/senior-hurlers-wanted/)

then as someone stated perhaps that money is only about developing elite players and not keeping kids in the game.

That advert is more akin to Senior Rugby than GAA.
That’s very true and it’s disappointing to say the least, that the CC and the Dublin CB haven’t recognised the fact.
I’m not being anti-Dub here but there are facts that shouldn’t be ignored. The superclub system that operates widely in Dublin is great for coaching elite players and bringing them through to senior level but this “success” comes at a hefty price.
Just compare County Cavan with Finglas, a suburb in  Dublin.


According to the last census returns, Cavan has a population of 76,000.
According to local garda sources, the K district, covering Finglas, Cabra and Blanchardstown has roughly the same amount.
The Cavan GAA site says the number of clubs in Cavan is 41.
The number of clubs in Finglas is one.
There is a slight overlap with St Brigid’s in Castleknock but to all intents and purposes, Erin’s Isle is the only GAA club that matters in Finglas. (There is another small junior club, St Joseph’s,and there is the Pavee Gaels club that caters exclusively for the Travelling community.


So one club in Finglas compared to 41 in Cavan.


In fairness to Isles, the club has good contacts with the Primary schools in the area and draws all its juvenile members from those schools but in recent times the number of males teaching at this level is dropping sharply and so is the commitment to Gaelic games.
Isles only gets a small percentage of potential juvenile players in its catchment area and the vast majority of those who join will either leave as they get older or are dropped due to a shortage of teams as the age level increases.
Soccer, by comparison, has Tolka Rovers, roughly equal in size to Isles and there are (at least) 14 other clubs in the general Finglas area.
No problem guessing what the dominant sport in this area is.
I have had associations with Isles going back many years and I have nothing but praise for their underage structures and the volunteers who look after teams but they are not winning the hearts and minds of the ordinary public and there are many other clubs in Isles’ position throughout County Dublin.

St Josephs and Pavee have no association with Finlgas. They are based in North Inner City and Traveller Pavee play home games in St Vincents school in Glasnevin. Erins Isle are losing a lot of players in feeder schools to Na Fianna and Ballymun. A lot of their players from 1998 team that got to club final moved onto rival club or down the country.

My club in Westmeath are lucky enough to have one of them. Doing huge work with our underage.

Which player is that?

Robbie Boyle.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Gael85 on November 17, 2016, 04:13:03 PM
He played in Meath for a few years with Simonstown Gaels. Wayne McCarthy another Isles man played there too.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Lar Naparka on November 17, 2016, 07:30:54 PM
Good to see all that money going so well on game promotion and development of players

http://otoolesgac.ie/2016/11/07/senior-hurlers-wanted/ (http://otoolesgac.ie/2016/11/07/senior-hurlers-wanted/)

then as someone stated perhaps that money is only about developing elite players and not keeping kids in the game.

That advert is more akin to Senior Rugby than GAA.
That’s very true and it’s disappointing to say the least, that the CC and the Dublin CB haven’t recognised the fact.
I’m not being anti-Dub here but there are facts that shouldn’t be ignored. The superclub system that operates widely in Dublin is great for coaching elite players and bringing them through to senior level but this “success” comes at a hefty price.
Just compare County Cavan with Finglas, a suburb in  Dublin.


According to the last census returns, Cavan has a population of 76,000.
According to local garda sources, the K district, covering Finglas, Cabra and Blanchardstown has roughly the same amount.
The Cavan GAA site says the number of clubs in Cavan is 41.
The number of clubs in Finglas is one.
There is a slight overlap with St Brigid’s in Castleknock but to all intents and purposes, Erin’s Isle is the only GAA club that matters in Finglas. (There is another small junior club, St Joseph’s,and there is the Pavee Gaels club that caters exclusively for the Travelling community.


So one club in Finglas compared to 41 in Cavan.


In fairness to Isles, the club has good contacts with the Primary schools in the area and draws all its juvenile members from those schools but in recent times the number of males teaching at this level is dropping sharply and so is the commitment to Gaelic games.
Isles only gets a small percentage of potential juvenile players in its catchment area and the vast majority of those who join will either leave as they get older or are dropped due to a shortage of teams as the age level increases.
Soccer, by comparison, has Tolka Rovers, roughly equal in size to Isles and there are (at least) 14 other clubs in the general Finglas area.
No problem guessing what the dominant sport in this area is.
I have had associations with Isles going back many years and I have nothing but praise for their underage structures and the volunteers who look after teams but they are not winning the hearts and minds of the ordinary public and there are many other clubs in Isles’ position throughout County Dublin.

St Josephs and Pavee have no association with Finlgas. They are based in North Inner City and Traveller Pavee play home games in St Vincents school in Glasnevin. Erins Isle are losing a lot of players in feeder schools to Na Fianna and Ballymun. A lot of their players from 1998 team that got to club final moved onto rival club or down the country.
I know next to nothing about St. Josephs but since I was told that a couple of former pupils were playing with them I assumed it had a Finglas connection. The Pavee club has no connection with the general community in Finglas but draws a lot of its members from the tigíns on Cappagh Road.
I can understand that Isles could be losing youngsters from local schools as the numbers of male teachers in Primary Schools are steadily declining. I'd say more than 90% of children who join Gaelic clubs come via their school and I can see why Na Fianna and Ballymun would be looking further afield that they used to do.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: manfromdelmonte on November 17, 2016, 10:46:03 PM
The GAA in Dublin needs to start setting up small junior clubs based on pitches in the public parks to provide semi-recreational games for players who don't want to commit to lots of training and to lads who drop out of the bigger clubs and want to do something to play and a social outlet


Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Gael85 on November 18, 2016, 10:00:26 AM
The GAA in Dublin needs to start setting up small junior clubs based on pitches in the public parks to provide semi-recreational games for players who don't want to commit to lots of training and to lads who drop out of the bigger clubs and want to do something to play and a social outlet

Most teams in Division 10 & 11 wouldn't train. Most big clubs would use their bottom team as social team. Others have team where lads just train together and play challenge games against other social teams. Round Towers Clondalkin have a gaelic for fathers team. This is most made up of parents from juvenile teams. They train twice a week and play challenge games once a month. The matches are non contact and 2 touches on ball.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Lar Naparka on November 18, 2016, 01:11:25 PM
The GAA in Dublin needs to start setting up small junior clubs based on pitches in the public parks to provide semi-recreational games for players who don't want to commit to lots of training and to lads who drop out of the bigger clubs and want to do something to play and a social outlet
I think you are dead right; a change of approach is badly needed. Can’t see it happening however as there are entrenched interests standing in the way of progress. Established, large clubs wouldn’t tolerate any opposition even if it’s in the long-term interests of all.
As Hound says, Finglas is strong soccer territory but with one club in an area with over 70,000 people, something needs to be done  to raise the GAA’s profile in the region and I suppose in every other part of Dublin as well.
But a good majority of them will at least tolerate the existence of the GAA and lots of them would put on the Dub jersey and wind up on the Hill if the Dubs were playing. More lager and craic than a loyalty to the county team but not actively opposed to Gaelic games either. Mind you, many are anti but you’d still get a few Gaelic clubs if your proposal was adopted.
I taught in Finglas for many years and we used to run a Gaelic league every year coming up to the summer holidays.
Very few in the school were unwilling to play and the craic was brilliant. Then one year I had a brilliant sixth class, every single one in the classroom was a wee bit unstable and that included yours truly.
Kids decided that Gaelic was easy peasy and decided to challenge the rest of the senior classes in the school.  No problem to my littler warriors; they thrashed the pick of the other four classes.
Next up was Erin’s Isle where the manager of the A team was a colleague. We beat them well and to cap it all, the school principal turned up to cheer roar on my class. A Clanns man through and through which  meant naturally that I had to stop him abusing the ref and making a jackass of himself on the sideline.
The kids were giddy with excitement when he turned out to be human after all.
Next up was Whitehall Colmcilles where the A manager was also a good friend. At this stage most of the school kids and teachers had got in on the act and a few parents as well. It was a game played on the school pitch and the visitors were intimidated by the reception they got. We won this one as well. My little beauts weren’t too worried about the finer points of the game; they harried and tackled in droves and never let up from beginning to end and were never too fussy about the rules either, same as me.
There were four other Primary schools in the area and we challenged the school teams of all of them,. Two took up the challenge  and lost heavily and the other two chickened out.
Then we were up to the end of the school year and I was heartbroken when my kids left. They weren’t too happy either but life had to go on…
Now, the point I’m getting at is that only a handful joined Isles and they had all left by the time they had reached fifteen.
This is where i disagree with the superclub approach.
Schoolchildren tend to hang around with their mates and are reluctant to stray too far from their comfort zone. My Apaches loved the adventure and buzz that went with playing as a unit. I don’t think they were too worried about the type of game they played. It could have been Ludo for all they cared. A pat on the back from Sir and the obligatory choc ice was all it took to keep them revved up.
It was a bit like the soccer model.
The disused container and a lack of showers etc. wouldn’t have bothered anyone at all. They were playing with their mates and felt comfortable with all around them.The average schoolboy playing soccer will be playing with his pals, on a team managed buy someone’s da or uncle or elder brother and doesn’t have to go outside familiar territory unless being taken to a game by someone they know.
Even if the GAA followed a policy such as outlined above, there still would be considerable obstacles in the way but youi’d  get a helluva lot more than one club with a catchment area of 72/73,000.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on November 18, 2016, 02:57:13 PM
Really enjoyed that story Lar. Sounds like your school was one of those schools on the perimeter of the Erin's Isle catchment area? This is what I was referring to earlier, if Erin's Isle want to get back to winning Dublin championships they need to be going around to the perimeter schools and get all football playing kids up to the club. A handful is no good as you illustrated.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Lar Naparka on November 22, 2016, 10:11:21 PM
Really enjoyed that story Lar. Sounds like your school was one of those schools on the perimeter of the Erin's Isle catchment area? This is what I was referring to earlier, if Erin's Isle want to get back to winning Dublin championships they need to be going around to the perimeter schools and get all football playing kids up to the club. A handful is no good as you illustrated.
Sorry, Croí, I had thought we’d given the thread a break as I’ve been AWOL for a few days.
However, your post deserves a reply as there are some issues about my relative success that are not immediately obvious to anyone not directly involved in juvenile football.
My school is one of the traditional ‘feeders’ to Isles. But it is about a mile and a half away and that means some kids might have to travel up to two miles  on foot or more on a Saturday. (NOt all dads have cars or would bother to drive and collect their children from any sort of club.)
That’s not far by country standards but it’s a different matter in suburban Dublin.
Unless there are at least four or five in a group, mammies might be reluctant to see their kids go so far and, anyway, a walk to and from a game of a mile or more would put many youngsters off.
Children at the age my little warriors were, are fairly territorial. They like hanging around with their mates and don’t mix easily with outsiders. Those going to play for Isles or any other big club will be playing with kids for other schools and there’s often a mutual animosity between them.
THey will also be managed by otherwise well-meaning individuals who are strangers to them and that can make some uneasy.
One might think that the presence of big, modern changing rooms with plenty of showers etc. would be an enticement to join. For many around this age, the opposite holds true. The noise and confusion and having to undress in front of strangers puts many off joining such a club.
Along with all of that, there are a number of families, a sizeable minority, that want nothing to do with Gaelic games. That could be historical antipathy, after all, this is The Pale but a lot of it is down to people's’ experience of been forced to play Gah at school when stickwork had nothing to do with Kilkenny.
My little bunnies, all 31 of them, felt comfortable with everyone around them. Same as in soccer, where the managers are often neighbours and the other kids live on the same road, they had only a prefab to change in and when playing at the school and had it to themselves also.
In light of all of this, I think ‘delmonte’s proposal (above) is an eminently sensible one.
A huge issue I have with the proposed drive in Dublin to recruit coaches to sharpen the skills of already existing players- it won’t, of itself, bring a single new recruit into a GAA club.
 It will help to widen the already considerable skills’ gap between Dublin and the chasing pack, but it won’t increase the percentage of young players who opt to continuing playing Gaelic football.
Make no mistake about it, Dub clubs may have literally hundreds of babysitting age haring around their playing fields but holding onto them is a different matter.
Once they are old enough to feel self-conscious or have to travel on their own by bus or Shank’s mare, many won’t go the distance.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on November 23, 2016, 10:40:23 AM
Really enjoyed that story Lar. Sounds like your school was one of those schools on the perimeter of the Erin's Isle catchment area? This is what I was referring to earlier, if Erin's Isle want to get back to winning Dublin championships they need to be going around to the perimeter schools and get all football playing kids up to the club. A handful is no good as you illustrated.
Sorry, Croí, I had thought we’d given the thread a break as I’ve been AWOL for a few days.
However, your post deserves a reply as there are some issues about my relative success that are not immediately obvious to anyone not directly involved in juvenile football.
My school is one of the traditional ‘feeders’ to Isles. But it is about a mile and a half away and that means some kids might have to travel up to two miles  on foot or more on a Saturday. (NOt all dads have cars or would bother to drive and collect their children from any sort of club.)
That’s not far by country standards but it’s a different matter in suburban Dublin.
Unless there are at least four or five in a group, mammies might be reluctant to see their kids go so far and, anyway, a walk to and from a game of a mile or more would put many youngsters off.
Children at the age my little warriors were, are fairly territorial. They like hanging around with their mates and don’t mix easily with outsiders. Those going to play for Isles or any other big club will be playing with kids for other schools and there’s often a mutual animosity between them.
THey will also be managed by otherwise well-meaning individuals who are strangers to them and that can make some uneasy.
One might think that the presence of big, modern changing rooms with plenty of showers etc. would be an enticement to join. For many around this age, the opposite holds true. The noise and confusion and having to undress in front of strangers puts many off joining such a club.
Along with all of that, there are a number of families, a sizeable minority, that want nothing to do with Gaelic games. That could be historical antipathy, after all, this is The Pale but a lot of it is down to people's’ experience of been forced to play Gah at school when stickwork had nothing to do with Kilkenny.
My little bunnies, all 31 of them, felt comfortable with everyone around them. Same as in soccer, where the managers are often neighbours and the other kids live on the same road, they had only a prefab to change in and when playing at the school and had it to themselves also.
In light of all of this, I think ‘delmonte’s proposal (above) is an eminently sensible one.
A huge issue I have with the proposed drive in Dublin to recruit coaches to sharpen the skills of already existing players- it won’t, of itself, bring a single new recruit into a GAA club.
 It will help to widen the already considerable skills’ gap between Dublin and the chasing pack, but it won’t increase the percentage of young players who opt to continuing playing Gaelic football.
Make no mistake about it, Dub clubs may have literally hundreds of babysitting age haring around their playing fields but holding onto them is a different matter.
Once they are old enough to feel self-conscious or have to travel on their own by bus or Shank’s mare, many won’t go the distance.

There are certainly challenges there Lar in your example but they are not insurmountable. My kids school is 4.5km from the club but it's a feeder school where the GPO goes in once a week for an hour and it has a great record of feeding kids through to the club. Now I take your point that most of us are lucky enough to have cars to bring our kids up there on a Saturday morning but if anyone's stuck someone will pick them up and when they're old enough they can cycle. If you get them up there from the age of 4/5 then they will have more friends for life and not be landed into a strange dressing room when they are 10/11. So you'd need a co-ordinated approach with the schools and lifts but the key is getting them up as early an age as possible, if you leave it till 6th class then you've already lost the battle IMO>
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Lar Naparka on February 09, 2017, 07:56:17 PM
I thought we had finished with this topic and that all to be said had been said and then along came Sean Moran...
This was his article in the Irish Times yesterday. (Wed.)
I think it's worth a read.
 (http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/se%C3%A1n-moran-gaelic-games-equality-problem-is-getting-worse-1.2967169)

Seán Moran: Gaelic games' equality problem is getting worse
Yes, the GAA created a monster in Dublin, but did they have any other choice?


They might be trivial compared to events on a global scale but the GAA must face up to some ominous signs blowing around its own world. Equality is an ambivalent concept within organised sport, an activity that has always elevated the winner over the loser and within whose context “elite” is not generally considered a pejorative term.
As things stand, however, equality is becoming more and more of a problem for Gaelic games. A good deal of this has made itself prominent early in the year, as the GAA changes its reporting calendar to cater for annual Congress in February rather than April.
Two of the bigger issues to emerge from the last few weeks have been the club fixtures’ crisis and the ongoing balance of funding between Dublin and other counties.
Sifting through the annual report, financial report and motions list for Congress at the end of this month, a sense of unease is unavoidable despite another solid year financially and administratively.
The establishment of the Club Players Association drew further attention to the now chronic inequality between the preponderance of players whose activities keep the games alive in communities up and down the country and the intercounty panels who have become increasingly central to the GAA’s business model.
One of the reasons the round-robin proposal for the All-Ireland quarter-finals has been tabled is the sliding interest in the last eight in recent years and although the continuing box-office strength of the final stages of the championship has kept the revenues buoyant –partly thanks to a proliferation of replays (after 12 years without one, there arrived four in five seasons – it had taken 40 years for the previous four) – the gap between top counties and the chasing pack has been taking its toll.
Intrusion
Of course this disparity is not particularly new but whereas in the past the provincial and All-Ireland championships wended their way through the summer without causing too much intrusion and the gate receipts were modest if much appreciated, in recent years the intercounty competitions have grown in prominence and, above all, in financial value.
It’s just 20 years since the GAA began to add fixtures to the All-Ireland championships. For the last year of the sudden-death format, 1996, gate receipts for the season were £6 million, which adjusted for inflation comes in at about €11.5 million – just over a third of the figures for last year (€30 million).
These increased earnings have been reflected in the greatly enhanced profile of the intercounty championships. Further evidence of this can be seen in the figures that show gate receipts 20 years ago constituted a full 70 per cent of income, whereas the significantly higher receipts for the most recent year made up just 50 per cent.
This tells its own tale of greatly increased commercial and broadcasting activity.
The problem is that the more commercially adroit the association has become, the more its constituent parts and sponsorship, no less than sporting feats, is the preserve of winners.
On his RTÉ radio programme on Tuesday, Seán O’Rourke spoke to GAA broadcaster and journalist Damien Lawlor about the disparity between Dublin, with their sponsorship cache of nearly a million a year, and mid-ranking counties, who might take in €30,000.
Before commercialism entered the world of the GAA, such disparities couldn’t exist, even if different ones did, most obviously population.
Amateurism, then, actually becomes a problem. Why? Because the GAA is not essentially about regulating competing professional “franchises” but rather developing the games. Were it simply a professional sports organisation with a subsidiary development remit, players could go to the highest bidder and would only have to play at intercounty level – at a stroke relieving fixtures’ congestion.
Clearly there’s also a downside. Discarding amateurism could well end up in insufficient revenue to keep the show on the road and there would also be risk in the extent to which the public and more importantly volunteers would lose interest in an activity which had effectively cut the umbilical cord between players and community.
Slipstream
But the downside at present is that the big, traditional counties can deepen the division between themselves and others because of advantages that didn’t seem so pronounced 100 years ago, when even if Dublin had established a firm hold on football with 11 of the first 29 All-Irelands there was still space in their slipstream for other Leinster counties – Wexford, Kildare and Louth – to win titles as well.
These days both GAA director of finance Tom Ryan and Croke Park Stadium director Peter McKenna have both lamented the scorched earth of the Leinster football championship and its impact on revenues.
It is sometimes argued that the GAA have created a monster with the rise of Dublin but what else could they have done?
The biggest population centre in the State had always been challenging territory for the GAA and the decision over 15 years to pump sustained funds into the county has been a success. By taking seriously the need to engage in what had been an inadequately developed region, the GAA has ended up with a county which has improved that engagement to the extent that it has become a dominant competitive presence.
Act in an attempt to level the playing field competitively and there is the danger of undermining the spread of Gaelic games in the capital. Dublin chief executive John Costello argued the point in his annual report.
“Put bluntly, extra funding for other counties should not come at the direct expense of Dublin’s games development initiatives. Bleed that well dry and it won’t be long before soccer and rugby make inroads back into terrain that Dublin GAA has fought, tooth and nail, to colonise in the first place.”
There are no obvious answers, apart from tearing up traditional structures and risking local attachments and loyalties fostered over more than a century.
 Put another way, no easy answers.

Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: armaghniac on February 09, 2017, 08:00:11 PM
“Put bluntly, extra funding for other counties should not come at the direct expense of Dublin’s games development initiatives"

I agree. The problems is not the development on the base, but the effect the success of that development has on representative teams that draw from a much larger population than elsewhere in the country. 
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: mayoaremagic on March 03, 2017, 11:58:28 PM
Find a proper plan and ethos as regards Dublin in the gaa.

When they are trying to justify the funding directed to it they describe it as more of a province. When they want to compete it is a county. You don't need to be a genius to see that isnt going to work in the long term as regards fair competition.

We probably need a fresh and objective pair of eyes or two to have a look at things. For example, the logic where the DCB decide that because they cant get a decent crowd into croke park, they should instead build another smaller stadium, just underlines the issue. But of course, if we seen this happening in something we arent really involved with, like the SPL for example we would say well surely a better option is addressing the lack of competition and making a great spectacle for people to actually watch, thereby getting people into the stadium instead of building a smaller one to suit the dwindling crowds for a product that seems to be losing interest...

That is what people don't consider enough in the gaa - what makes a competition good isn't the level of the top team, it is the competition between the teams, with a bit of rivalry thrown in.

Now Dubs will of course say, this is just anti-dub - it actually isn't, Id say the same for any county in that situation. It is in fact anti-nothing, but rather Pro-gaa. The biggest issue in the gaa today is that we are headed the same way as the SPL in Scotland. This needs to change.

Sorry if I went on a bit there, but the point needed a bit of explanation.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: manfromdelmonte on March 04, 2017, 04:59:41 PM
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: manfromdelmonte on March 04, 2017, 05:02:08 PM
Find a proper plan and ethos as regards Dublin in the gaa.

When they are trying to justify the funding directed to it they describe it as more of a province. When they want to compete it is a county. You don't need to be a genius to see that isnt going to work in the long term as regards fair competition.

We probably need a fresh and objective pair of eyes or two to have a look at things. For example, the logic where the DCB decide that because they cant get a decent crowd into croke park, they should instead build another smaller stadium, just underlines the issue. But of course, if we seen this happening in something we arent really involved with, like the SPL for example we would say well surely a better option is addressing the lack of competition and making a great spectacle for people to actually watch, thereby getting people into the stadium instead of building a smaller one to suit the dwindling crowds for a product that seems to be losing interest...

That is what people don't consider enough in the gaa - what makes a competition good isn't the level of the top team, it is the competition between the teams, with a bit of rivalry thrown in.

Now Dubs will of course say, this is just anti-dub - it actually isn't, Id say the same for any county in that situation. It is in fact anti-nothing, but rather Pro-gaa. The biggest issue in the gaa today is that we are headed the same way as the SPL in Scotland. This needs to change.

Sorry if I went on a bit there, but the point needed a bit of explanation.
One club dominating in a county for 5 years plus doesn't auger well for the county team.
similarly, one team dominating nationally will not be good for the GAA

Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Avondhu star on March 04, 2017, 06:16:39 PM
Find a proper plan and ethos as regards Dublin in the gaa.

When they are trying to justify the funding directed to it they describe it as more of a province. When they want to compete it is a county. You don't need to be a genius to see that isnt going to work in the long term as regards fair competition.

We probably need a fresh and objective pair of eyes or two to have a look at things. For example, the logic where the DCB decide that because they cant get a decent crowd into croke park, they should instead build another smaller stadium, just underlines the issue. But of course, if we seen this happening in something we arent really involved with, like the SPL for example we would say well surely a better option is addressing the lack of competition and making a great spectacle for people to actually watch, thereby getting people into the stadium instead of building a smaller one to suit the dwindling crowds for a product that seems to be losing interest...

That is what people don't consider enough in the gaa - what makes a competition good isn't the level of the top team, it is the competition between the teams, with a bit of rivalry thrown in.

Now Dubs will of course say, this is just anti-dub - it actually isn't, Id say the same for any county in that situation. It is in fact anti-nothing, but rather Pro-gaa. The biggest issue in the gaa today is that we are headed the same way as the SPL in Scotland. This needs to change.

Sorry if I went on a bit there, but the point needed a bit of explanation.
One club dominating in a county for 5 years plus doesn't auger well for the county team.
similarly, one team dominating nationally will not be good for the GAA

What have the likes of Meath Kildare Offaly done to change the system. At present they are only providing pre Quarter Final training sessions for Dublin
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on March 04, 2017, 08:20:28 PM
It is already 16 years since a Leinster county apart from Dublin reached an AI final. There is no hope in the foreseeable future of that changing. Leinster football is in terminal decline at the moment and it could be argued is already dead.

 
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: manfromdelmonte on March 04, 2017, 09:33:13 PM
It is already 16 years since a Leinster county apart from Dublin reached an AI final. There is no hope in the foreseeable future of that changing. Leinster football is in terminal decline at the moment and it could be argued is already dead.
where has the majority of development funding gone?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Lar Naparka on March 04, 2017, 10:07:09 PM
It is already 16 years since a Leinster county apart from Dublin reached an AI final. There is no hope in the foreseeable future of that changing. Leinster football is in terminal decline at the moment and it could be argued is already dead.
where has the majority of development funding gone?
To Dublin of course. I put up this link a while ago but it's still relevant today.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/se%C3%A1n-moran-gaelic-games-equality-problem-is-getting-worse-1.2967169

This is what John Costello, the Dubs' chief exec and a decent man to boot, had to say in his annual report.
“Put bluntly, extra funding for other counties should not come at the direct expense of Dublin’s games development initiatives. Bleed that well dry and it won’t be long before soccer and rugby make inroads back into terrain that Dublin GAA has fought, tooth and nail, to colonise in the first place.”

If that attitude prevails, who the hell will be able to compete with the Dubs? Will All Irelands be between Dublin and Dublin Reserves







Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Dinny Breen on March 04, 2017, 11:16:14 PM
Find a proper plan and ethos as regards Dublin in the gaa.

When they are trying to justify the funding directed to it they describe it as more of a province. When they want to compete it is a county. You don't need to be a genius to see that isnt going to work in the long term as regards fair competition.

We probably need a fresh and objective pair of eyes or two to have a look at things. For example, the logic where the DCB decide that because they cant get a decent crowd into croke park, they should instead build another smaller stadium, just underlines the issue. But of course, if we seen this happening in something we arent really involved with, like the SPL for example we would say well surely a better option is addressing the lack of competition and making a great spectacle for people to actually watch, thereby getting people into the stadium instead of building a smaller one to suit the dwindling crowds for a product that seems to be losing interest...

That is what people don't consider enough in the gaa - what makes a competition good isn't the level of the top team, it is the competition between the teams, with a bit of rivalry thrown in.

Now Dubs will of course say, this is just anti-dub - it actually isn't, Id say the same for any county in that situation. It is in fact anti-nothing, but rather Pro-gaa. The biggest issue in the gaa today is that we are headed the same way as the SPL in Scotland. This needs to change.

Sorry if I went on a bit there, but the point needed a bit of explanation.
One club dominating in a county for 5 years plus doesn't auger well for the county team.
similarly, one team dominating nationally will not be good for the GAA

What have the likes of Meath Kildare Offaly done to change the system. At present they are only providing pre Quarter Final training sessions for Dublin

Ha! Dublin hammer Mayo and somehow it's a Leinster problem, I thought the concensus was that this a GAA problem, created and sustained by the GAA. Sure I suppose teams need to work harder and start producing natural born footballers.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Avondhu star on March 04, 2017, 11:27:44 PM
Money for jam
No wonder there's a gambling problem in the Gaa.
200 double on Waterford Dublin is nice one
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: manfromdelmonte on March 05, 2017, 11:51:39 AM
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/doing-nothing-is-not-an-option-as-vanishing-clubs-reflect-growing-malaise-35502751.html (http://www.independent.ie/opinion/doing-nothing-is-not-an-option-as-vanishing-clubs-reflect-growing-malaise-35502751.html)

There are 20 fewer GAA clubs in Leinster, outside of Dublin, than there were 40 years ago, despite a massive population increase in the province over the same period.

****************************
Most clubs down the province never see a full time GAA coach

Every GAA club in Dublin either has their own full time coach or share a full time coach.
The difference between clubs in Dublin and elsewhere is stark.

There are large urban areas in Kildare, Meath, Laois, Westmeath, Offaly, Kilkenny, Wexford, Louth, Carlow not getting the same treatment as urban Dublin
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Dinny Breen on August 28, 2017, 12:16:24 AM
Youngest team left in the semi-finals, has the penny dropped yet? Will anyone be surprised if the beat Mayo by 10?

Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Syferus on August 28, 2017, 12:22:34 AM
Youngest team left in the semi-finals, has the penny dropped yet? Will anyone be surprised if the beat Mayo by 10?

Sure it's all just a cycle. As Zulu says, it's up to the rest to keep up.

:-\

So this is how gaelic football dies.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: RedHand88 on August 28, 2017, 12:36:42 AM
Is this really any different from Kerry in the 80s or Dublin in the 70s?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: weareros on August 28, 2017, 12:41:31 AM
Money not the issue. You could give the smaller populations gazillions and it would make no difference. There is an in-built inequity in population size and amount of players involved in club football, and add to that the exodus of young people from thinly populated rural counties due to lack of opportunity and the growing global trend towards urbanization. However, when you bring it up, you'll get the usual:

Sure look at smaller populated counties like Monaghan punching above their weight
Sure look at the competition larger counties have from other sports: rugby, soccer, basketball
Sure look at an Ulster county like Tyrone where nearly half have no interest in GAA for political reasons (the nationalist pop is still 5 x the pop of Leitrim)
Sure look at at counties with large populations and they are shite (Kildare, Meath, Wicklow, etc)

Again the likes of AIG could throw money at rural counties with small populations. It would make no difference. The system based on the English county system is unfair at its foundations. Money, however, is amplifying the issue and the only counties with a realistic chance of winning Sam Maguire are counties with a population of 100k and above. We are unlikely to ever see an Offaly 1981 again. So you'll have lots of counties that will lose more interest every year. There's a few like Ros where we are still a bit fanatical. But that will die too. However, if a Dublin, Kerry, Mayo or Tyrone win an All-Ireland in 2025 and the rest of the country doesn't give a shit, despite a glowing report for the 70 dying boomers who still read the newspaper, it will have about the same value as winning best turnip at the Strokestown agricultural show. And so passeth the glory of Sam.




Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Rossfan on August 28, 2017, 03:04:03 AM
Hard to bate an oul Strokestown turnip. ;D
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: lenny on August 28, 2017, 08:48:29 AM
Youngest team left in the semi-finals, has the penny dropped yet? Will anyone be surprised if the beat Mayo by 10?

I would be very surprised if they beat mayo by 10. Mayo will go at them man for man and it will be very close like last year.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: ONeill on August 28, 2017, 08:53:31 AM
This is truly staggering...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ct8TECwXEAAavJn.jpg:large (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ct8TECwXEAAavJn.jpg:large)

That's a weird map of the nord
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: RedHand88 on August 28, 2017, 09:59:54 AM
This is truly staggering...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ct8TECwXEAAavJn.jpg:large (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ct8TECwXEAAavJn.jpg:large)

That's a weird map of the nord

Other 3 semi finalists very far down the pecking order in that interestingly. What are fermanagh spending the money on? RHI boilers?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: omagh_gael on August 28, 2017, 10:15:59 AM
This is truly staggering...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ct8TECwXEAAavJn.jpg:large (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ct8TECwXEAAavJn.jpg:large)

That's a weird map of the nord

Other 3 semi finalists very far down the pecking order in that interestingly. What are fermanagh spending the money on? RHI boilers?

Fermanagh's figures probably skewed by their small playing numbers. Dublin clearly operate at a significant advantage but the most important variable is they've got 30+ players who are serious players and athletes. I truly feel that this will be the best team ever to play the game.

The money is a huge advantage, as I say, but it appears the most significant element is it's maximising the natural advantage they have over the rest of the country i.e. their playing numbers. It'd be interesting to see trends of registered adult members over  the previous decade across the top counties. Is the increased development money making a significant difference in the numbers playing and persisting with GAA over alternative sports in the city?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: longballin on August 28, 2017, 10:19:03 AM
Money can't buy you love or a team like the Dubs...
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on August 28, 2017, 10:21:46 AM
This is truly staggering...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ct8TECwXEAAavJn.jpg:large (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ct8TECwXEAAavJn.jpg:large)

That's a weird map of the nord

Other 3 semi finalists very far down the pecking order in that interestingly. What are fermanagh spending the money on? RHI boilers?

Fermanagh's figures probably skewed by their small playing numbers. Dublin clearly operate at a significant advantage but the most important variable is they've got 30+ players who are serious players and athletes. I truly feel that this will be the best team ever to play the game.

The money is a huge advantage, as I say, but it appears the most significant element is it's maximising the natural advantage they have over the rest of the country i.e. their playing numbers. It'd be interesting to see trends of registered adult members over  the previous decade across the top counties. Is the increased development money making a significant difference in the numbers playing and persisting with GAA over alternative sports in the city?

The modern game demands huge athleticism to make it.

I'd say the top 7/8 Dublin clubs probably train to the levels of a Div 2 county side. Most club players in Dublin are probably at near of close enough to intercounty standard in terms of S&C so they just happen to pick the biggest, quickest and best footballers out of that pool and train them to an even higher standard.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: rosnarun on August 28, 2017, 10:27:34 AM
lack of coaches is a problem as increasingly few are willing to put in the time without being paid. a lot of that is just the modern way of life in the rural area with people commuting long distances but even though the gaa is doing well financially they could not afford to pay a coach at every club.
the emphasis in local gaa now must be to making coaching as attractive Sas possible and get people qualified with little or no expense to themselves . include external S&C  qualifications in to courses as well as coaching are people are willing pay big money for these.
this would be a much better use of resourse than just paying a coach who has no intret in any particular club
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: The Hill is Blue on August 28, 2017, 02:21:07 PM
Con O'Callaghan should have been black-carded after his rugby tackle. Andrews - red carded after his tackle, following his yellow.

"Operation Financially Dope & Then Keep Dublin In The Championship" continues.

Man City buy their way into another final. Whoop-dee-doo. Money, money, money. That's why Dublin are where they are and the GAA top brass have a lot to answer for.

Getting your excuses in early again this year.  ::)
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Owenmoresider on August 28, 2017, 02:21:21 PM
Con O'Callaghan should have been black-carded after his rugby tackle. Andrews - red carded after his tackle, following his yellow.

"Operation Financially Dope & Then Keep Dublin In The Championship" continues.

Man City buy their way into another final. Whoop-dee-doo. Money, money, money. That's why Dublin are where they are and the GAA top brass have a lot to answer for.
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=28088.msg1731066#msg1731066 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=28088.msg1731066#msg1731066)
 ???
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: The Hill is Blue on August 28, 2017, 03:10:52 PM
Con O'Callaghan should have been black-carded after his rugby tackle. Andrews - red carded after his tackle, following his yellow.

"Operation Financially Dope & Then Keep Dublin In The Championship" continues.

Man City buy their way into another final. Whoop-dee-doo. Money, money, money. That's why Dublin are where they are and the GAA top brass have a lot to answer for.
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=28088.msg1731066#msg1731066 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=28088.msg1731066#msg1731066)
 ???

This looks like someone with too much time on their hands.  ???
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: JimStynes on August 28, 2017, 07:04:31 PM
Does anyone know the real jobs of the Dublin County team? You hear all this shite that they don't work or their work allows them 3 months off during the summer etc. It would be interesting to hear the truth regarding their jobs and if they truly are professional or is it just pub talk. Is the likes of Brogan hanging onto his place on the Dublin team purely for publicity reasons and sponsored cars etc.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Cunny Funt on August 28, 2017, 07:09:33 PM
Youngest team left in the semi-finals, has the penny dropped yet? Will anyone be surprised if the beat Mayo by 10?

I would be very surprised if they beat mayo by 10. Mayo will go at them man for man and it will be very close like last year.

+1 and add to the fact that Dublin haven't won by a large margin in AI final for 40 years.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Tony Baloney on August 28, 2017, 07:13:24 PM
Does anyone know the real jobs of the Dublin County team? You hear all this shite that they don't work or their work allows them 3 months off during the summer etc. It would be interesting to hear the truth regarding their jobs and if they truly are professional or is it just pub talk. Is the likes of Brogan hanging onto his place on the Dublin team purely for publicity reasons and sponsored cars etc.
Knock yourself out. A decent number of teachers, students and "bank reps" which probably cover most successful GAA teams.

http://www.dublingaa.ie/teams/players/stephen-cluxton (http://www.dublingaa.ie/teams/players/stephen-cluxton)
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: JimStynes on August 28, 2017, 07:43:21 PM
Sure the teachers are back in school now!! What does a bank rep actually do? I assume these boys all work throughout the work but maybe have flexible working hours and get extra leave for All Ireland final week etc. No one actually gets paid to play though?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Minder on August 28, 2017, 07:46:32 PM
Think this was done to death a few months ago on here and some of the Dubs listed the occupations of the players, quite a few 9-5s if I remember corectky. No different to any other county. Sure Richie Hogan packed in working this year, well teaching but you know what I mean, to concentrate on hurling
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: ashman on August 28, 2017, 11:51:38 PM
Think this was done to death a few months ago on here and some of the Dubs listed the occupations of the players, quite a few 9-5s if I remember corectky. No different to any other county. Sure Richie Hogan packed in working this year, well teaching but you know what I mean, to concentrate on hurling

It was Richie's worst ever year . 
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: macdanger2 on August 28, 2017, 11:53:50 PM
Con O'Callaghan should have been black-carded after his rugby tackle. Andrews - red carded after his tackle, following his yellow.

"Operation Financially Dope & Then Keep Dublin In The Championship" continues.

Man City buy their way into another final. Whoop-dee-doo. Money, money, money. That's why Dublin are where they are and the GAA top brass have a lot to answer for.

Getting your excuses in early again this year.  ::)

Are you really not able to spot a troll from that distance?  :o
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: George Foreman on August 29, 2017, 07:26:38 PM
From today's Irish News



Cahair O'Kane

IF you get a chance, lock the kids outside (only if the weather’s half decent), find a recording of Saturday’s Bledisloe Cup game and take two hours to watch it.

The first test between New Zealand and Australia the previous weekend was a complete whitewash. Seven minutes into the second half, the All Blacks led 54-6 and were unleashing all the tricks and flicks against an insipid opponent.

But the real test of a great team is when the pressure comes on. On Saturday, Australia brought a real challenge, and were 17-0 up in no time.

With ten minutes left, New Zealand were back within a point. They went through 22 phases without a single handling error before touching down to go ahead.

Still it wasn’t done as the Aussies responded instantly with a Kurtley Beale try right under the posts.

With just over two minutes left, any mistake would have been critical. Just outside the Australian 22’, three replacements and a back-row forward combined to create a mesmerising match-winning try.

There was absolutely no margin for error, and they didn’t make one. When the quickest, most delicate of hands were needed, they were able to go that well and pull them out.

We’ve seen them do it so, so often. Who could ever forget the try they worked that afternoon in Dublin four years ago to snatch a comeback win in a game that they’d been 19-0 down in?

They do their gym work but New Zealand rugby’s development structures are based around skills first, bulk second.

That commitment to the basic skills is why they are so far ahead of everyone else. That is why they are able to pull games from the fire, from positions that nobody else would rescue victory from.

In 2015, two times Lions captain Sam Warburton highlighted the difference between the approach to coaching in the northern and southern hemispheres.

“They do the simple things really well, like running straight, carrying well, hitting rucks, placing the ball correctly at rucks and passing accurately.

“At 16 I was taught to jackal, make good tackles and do my lineout work. But New Zealanders are so good at making three on twos count – I was probably about 20 when I realised I had to draw somebody and time my pass.”

And it showed at the last World Cup, where the four semi-finalists were New Zealand, Australia, South Africa and Argentina, all of whom played a much more dashing, adventurous game than their northern counterparts.

The way Gaelic football has gone over the past 18 months is almost a replica. Ulster football is, whether we like it or not, still trying to bludgeon its way through like a Six Nations contender, while Dublin and Mayo will be playing in September because of the adventure and ability they’ve displayed over the last two months.

You can talk about funding and money and semi-professional lifestyles but all that does is take focus away from how brilliant they are at the basic skills of Gaelic football.

Two wides Dublin kicked in 75-odd minutes of an All-Ireland semi-final, one of them a goal chance that whistled past the top corner of Niall Morgan’s goal.

When Mick Bohan was their skills coach, he introduced the 36-shot challenge. Each player took 18 shots off their right foot and 18 shots off their left.

In an interview last year, he revealed that Eoghan O’Gara went from having “no left foot” in 2011 to scoring 33 shots from 36 in that drill two nights before the 2013 All-Ireland final.

Pure hard work and repetition brought him to that point. Nothing else.

Tyrone went out on Sunday searching for turnovers and created just seven of them in the whole game. That stat actually seems higher than the reality, for it seemed like Dublin never gave the ball away.

For all the athleticism and game-smarts they’ve built up, it’s their mastery of the ball itself that allows Dublin to really suck every ounce of your lifeblood out of you.

Midway through the first half with Tyrone desperately needing something, Tiernan McCann thought he was through a pocket into the Dublin 45.

Dips low to gather the solo but as his hands come up, he finds no ball to grab. Paul Mannion, of all people, has chopped it away in mid-air.

When you consider that workrate and that quality of a tackle from Dublin’s second top scorer this summer, then you see what it is to try and beat them.

Look at Jack McCaffrey every time he sets off. We’ve all seen fellas that can run the 100 metres in 12 seconds that when they take off on a football field, they’ll fall over themselves trying to solo a ball. Not him, though.

You can argue that the funding facilitates the lifestyle that facilitates the free time to hone those skills to that degree but that takes away from the hours upon hours spent perfecting that level of skill.

The GAA could give every county in Ireland €20m but it wouldn’t make any difference unless there is a change in emphasis back towards favouring the basic skills of the game.

There are definite signs that there is a changing trend. Derry minors were superb on Sunday. They played the same way as each of the previous two teams that Damian McErlain has sent out.

They pressed and harassed the Dublin kickout to the point of destruction. They work exceptionally hard on their kick-passing. It’s almost like a throwback to letting the ball do the work.

Gaelic football is opening out again. Look at how Mayo have been using the kick-pass this summer. Instead of fearing the impact of sweepers on such a style, the top counties have really honed in on finding a way to bypass them.

That, in turn, has negated their influence and almost forced the return of something resembling man-to-man combat.

All of which suits Dublin, because they work harder at the basics and attacking than anybody else.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Dinny Breen on September 03, 2017, 05:37:47 PM
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Good to see Dublin looking after the ordinary fan.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Syferus on September 03, 2017, 05:53:46 PM
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Good to see Dublin looking after the ordinary fan.

Nice of David Brady to help them out too. Colours don't run and all that.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Main Street on September 03, 2017, 08:39:00 PM


Good to see Dublin looking after the ordinary fan.
That's a spoof, right?

Though it does get harder to tell the difference between the real and surreal.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Dinny Breen on September 05, 2017, 06:23:41 PM
http://www.irishnews.com/sport/opinion/2017/09/05/news/any-sense-in-being-an-amateur-in-a-soulless-money-driven-gaa--1127714/ (http://www.irishnews.com/sport/opinion/2017/09/05/news/any-sense-in-being-an-amateur-in-a-soulless-money-driven-gaa--1127714/)

Cahir O'Kane picks up on the breakfast, does he read/contribute here?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: thewobbler on September 05, 2017, 09:32:47 PM
As I pointed out to Cahair on FB this morning, can anyone explain to me why it's okay for clubs to run raffles and auctions for their AI tickets, but Dublin GAA shouldn't be able to?

He disagreed.

When Down got to the AI final in 2010, our County Board charged sterling for the euro face value of the ticket and made around 20% on every transaction. Money went to the county training fund. I called it an ingenious idea; how to plug a shortfall in a novel, completely fair way without having to bang the poverty drum. Freestate counties wouldn't have that luxury, so other methods have to be found.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Minder on September 05, 2017, 09:38:00 PM
http://www.irishnews.com/sport/opinion/2017/09/05/news/any-sense-in-being-an-amateur-in-a-soulless-money-driven-gaa--1127714/ (http://www.irishnews.com/sport/opinion/2017/09/05/news/any-sense-in-being-an-amateur-in-a-soulless-money-driven-gaa--1127714/)

Cahir O'Kane picks up on the breakfast, does he read/contribute here?

He certainly reads, don't know about contributing, as he had a hissy fit about some of the local Derry thread posters on his Twitter I believe. Mind you that thread is like a parallel universe
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Lar Naparka on September 05, 2017, 11:04:07 PM
As I pointed out to Cahair on FB this morning, can anyone explain to me why it's okay for clubs to run raffles and auctions for their AI tickets, but Dublin GAA shouldn't be able to?

He disagreed.

When Down got to the AI final in 2010, our County Board charged sterling for the euro face value of the ticket and made around 20% on every transaction. Money went to the county training fund. I called it an ingenious idea; how to plug a shortfall in a novel, completely fair way without having to bang the poverty drum. Freestate counties wouldn't have that luxury, so other methods have to be found.
I imagine he is jibbing at the price of tickets rather than a matter of principle.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Dinny Breen on September 06, 2017, 10:46:14 AM
I suppose this is the Dublin County board guaranteeing 10 tickets if you give them €3500, with a draw it is only luck and clubs have a limited number. It's not inconceivable that Dublin could sell 50 tables therefore 500 tickets are taken out of ordinary hands/clubs. It's touting in another language.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: mayoaremagic on September 06, 2017, 12:56:50 PM
I suppose this is the Dublin County board guaranteeing 10 tickets if you give them €3500, with a draw it is only luck and clubs have a limited number. It's not inconceivable that Dublin could sell 50 tables therefore 500 tickets are taken out of ordinary hands/clubs. It's touting in another language.

I wonder if 15 odd years ago, when Dublin needed funding from the taxpayer to be competitive, if they were told to man up and support their team, what the reaction would have been? Dublin are a fine side, a credit to themselves, but some of their fans are painfully lacking in self-awareness.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Dinny Breen on September 17, 2017, 07:50:43 PM
We were told Leinster was shit, it's Kildare/Meath's fault for not being competitive etc etc but nobody cared because they still had their crap provincial titles to share among themselves. I have spoken about this for 6 years, all I have gotten in return was abuse and whataboutery from  the grunters. Sport has a simple formula, spend the most money reap the most rewards.

Do you care now?

5 Senior All-Irelands in 7 years. 4 u21 All-Ireland in 8 years. 4 National League Titles in 5 years.

Inter-county football as a competition is in terminal decline probably already dead.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Captain Obvious on September 17, 2017, 08:00:49 PM
We were told Leinster was shit, it's Kildare/Meath's fault for not being competitive etc etc but nobody cared because they still had their crap provincial titles to share among themselves. I have spoken about this for 6 years, all I have gotten in return was abuse and whataboutery from  the grunters. Sport has a simple formula, spend the most money reap the most rewards.

Do you care now?

5 Senior All-Irelands in 7 years. 4 u21 All-Ireland in 8 years. 4 National League Titles in 5 years.

Inter-county football as a competition is in terminal decline probably already dead.

Mayo are competitive regularly against Dublin. A start for Leinster teams Kildare,Meath etc is to be competitive once in a while against this Dublin side who are not at their peak in May,June and July.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Syferus on September 17, 2017, 08:04:34 PM
We were told Leinster was shit, it's Kildare/Meath's fault for not being competitive etc etc but nobody cared because they still had their crap provincial titles to share among themselves. I have spoken about this for 6 years, all I have gotten in return was abuse and whataboutery from  the grunters. Sport has a simple formula, spend the most money reap the most rewards.

Do you care now?

5 Senior All-Irelands in 7 years. 4 u21 All-Ireland in 8 years. 4 National League Titles in 5 years.

Inter-county football as a competition is in terminal decline probably already dead.

+1

More excitement in the provincial championships and the league than the AI race these days.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Dinny Breen on September 17, 2017, 08:06:02 PM
We were told Leinster was shit, it's Kildare/Meath's fault for not being competitive etc etc but nobody cared because they still had their crap provincial titles to share among themselves. I have spoken about this for 6 years, all I have gotten in return was abuse and whataboutery from  the grunters. Sport has a simple formula, spend the most money reap the most rewards.

Do you care now?

5 Senior All-Irelands in 7 years. 4 u21 All-Ireland in 8 years. 4 National League Titles in 5 years.

Inter-county football as a competition is in terminal decline probably already dead.

Mayo are competitive regularly against Dublin. A start for Leinster teams Kildare,Meath etc is to be competitive once in a while against this Dublin side who are not at their peak in May,June and July.

Delusional, Leinster is dead mate. The Super 8 will follow suit.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: RedHand88 on September 17, 2017, 08:08:53 PM
3 of Dublins recent all irelands have been won by a point! One after a replay... The sport is not dead. It wasn't dead when Kerry won 7 out of 9 and it isn't dead now. Christ people are over dramatic.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Dinny Breen on September 17, 2017, 08:22:27 PM
3 of Dublins recent all irelands have been won by a point! One after a replay... The sport is not dead. It wasn't dead when Kerry won 7 out of 9 and it isn't dead now. Christ people are over dramatic.

Won by a point because Dublin have a former world boxing champ as their mental/performance coach, money well spent.


Kerry's was built on organic success not the millions spent on games development, it died a natural death. Who's going to challenge Dublin? Tyrone ha!
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: hardstation on September 17, 2017, 08:52:03 PM
3 of Dublins recent all irelands have been won by a point! One after a replay... The sport is not dead. It wasn't dead when Kerry won 7 out of 9 and it isn't dead now. Christ people are over dramatic.

Won by a point because Dublin have a former world boxing champ as their mental/performance coach, money well spent.


That's why Dublin won by a point? Hmmm....
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Dinny Breen on September 17, 2017, 09:24:37 PM
3 of Dublins recent all irelands have been won by a point! One after a replay... The sport is not dead. It wasn't dead when Kerry won 7 out of 9 and it isn't dead now. Christ people are over dramatic.

Won by a point because Dublin have a former world boxing champ as their mental/performance coach, money well spent.


That's why Dublin won by a point? Hmmm....

It's why Dublin win tight games, it's not coincidence it's what he's employed for, Rock would have visualized that last free and I guarantee he had a process to deal with it. You aren't dealing with amateurs here.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: lenny on September 17, 2017, 09:30:09 PM
3 of Dublins recent all irelands have been won by a point! One after a replay... The sport is not dead. It wasn't dead when Kerry won 7 out of 9 and it isn't dead now. Christ people are over dramatic.

Won by a point because Dublin have a former world boxing champ as their mental/performance coach, money well spent.


That's why Dublin won by a point? Hmmm....

It's why Dublin win tight games, it's not coincidence it's what he's employed for, Rock would have visualized that last free and I guarantee he had a process to deal with it. You aren't dealing with amateurs here.

Did he visualize the 2 frees he kicked really badly in the first half?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Minder on September 17, 2017, 09:33:15 PM
Read something the other day that Dublins backroom team has 24 but only two or three are paid for their services
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Dinny Breen on September 17, 2017, 09:42:41 PM
3 of Dublins recent all irelands have been won by a point! One after a replay... The sport is not dead. It wasn't dead when Kerry won 7 out of 9 and it isn't dead now. Christ people are over dramatic.

Won by a point because Dublin have a former world boxing champ as their mental/performance coach, money well spent.


That's why Dublin won by a point? Hmmm....

It's why Dublin win tight games, it's not coincidence it's what he's employed for, Rock would have visualized that last free and I guarantee he had a process to deal with it. You aren't dealing with amateurs here.

Did he visualize the 2 frees he kicked really badly in the first half?

How well did he recovery mentally? Was that coincidence too?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Syferus on September 17, 2017, 09:46:49 PM
Read something the other day that Dublins backroom team has 24 but only two or three are paid for their services

That's the official take, sure. Just like Micko and company were traveling to Wicklow for the love of the game..
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: hardstation on September 17, 2017, 09:48:04 PM
Dinny, people miss frees and score frees at every level in the GAA and always have done.
It has fcuk all to do with an ex-boxer.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Dinny Breen on September 17, 2017, 09:57:14 PM
Dinny, people miss frees and score frees at every level in the GAA and always have done.
It has fcuk all to do with an ex-boxer.

Fine you don't believe in Sports Pyscology. I do and Bernard Dunne heads up the HPU for Irish Boxing, he's not with Dublin to sit on his hole, Rock has a 92% success rate on frees 96% within his range. He's a machine. Sure yea he's just another club footballer.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Rossfan on September 17, 2017, 10:19:44 PM
Back in 2013 he missed the pressure ones for Ballymun against Bridgets.
Now on the other hand.......
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: trileacman on September 17, 2017, 10:41:14 PM
I'm in agreement here now lads. We all sat bird-mouthed when Dublin started romping to Leinsters and we said nothing. Now they're starting to romp to all-irelands and were still saying nothing. Today was the only time all year they didn't win by playing in 2nd gear.

A lot of you profess to be rational people but if you can't see the huge advantages that Dublin now have over the rest of us then you have your heads in the sand.

The really, really sad thing is that change will only be enacted when supporters lose interest in a predictable championship and the GAA start getting hit in the coffers. It's a sad indictment of the current GAA mentality that a strong balance sheet is the sole measure of the health of the association.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Syferus on September 17, 2017, 10:41:55 PM
Back in 2913 he missed the pressure ones for Ballymena against Bridges.
Now on the other hand.......

Steady on with the Guinness, lad.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Rossfan on September 17, 2017, 10:45:33 PM
At work Syfīn so quick posts and phone running wild :D
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: The Hill is Blue on September 18, 2017, 10:37:43 AM
When Kerry were beating all before them in the 70s and 80s there was no national hysteria about the imminent demise of the game. Back then it was simply a case of the "aristocrats" taking their rightful place at the top of the heap. God was in his heaven and all was right with the world.

There were no calls for something to be done when Kerry took their 37th All Ireland senior title in 2014 (their sixth since 2000). God was still in his heaven and all was still right with the world.

Did no one notice that Kerry won their fourth minor title on the trot yesterday? Perhaps it won't be long before all is right with the world again and the begrudgers can sleep easy.

Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Rossfan on September 18, 2017, 10:44:39 AM
There aren't 1.3m people in Kerry.
The Central GAA didn't and don't pour loads of money into Kerry.
Kerry don't play all their serious Championship games in Killarney.
No taxpayer provided "National" training centre in Kerry.
Took Kerry 11 years to recover from all them lads retiring, Dublin have 9 or 10 new players in over the last few years and won U21 again this year.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: five points on September 18, 2017, 10:49:17 AM
When Kerry were beating all before them in the 70s and 80s there was no national hysteria about the imminent demise of the game.

Bit unfair to class it as hysteria more than 35 years on, but Kerry's dominance in that era did spark a lot of concern about the state of the game at that point, and its future. Much of that concern was justified. Gaelic football circa 1985 was in a dire state.

Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: armaghniac on September 18, 2017, 10:50:38 AM
When Kerry were beating all before them in the 70s and 80s there was no national hysteria about the imminent demise of the game. Back then it was simply a case of the "aristocrats" taking their rightful place at the top of the heap. God was in his heaven and all was right with the world.

There were no calls for something to be done when Kerry took their 37th All Ireland senior title in 2014 (their sixth since 2000). God was still in his heaven and all was still right with the world.

Did no one notice that Kerry won their fourth minor title on the trot yesterday? Perhaps it won't be long before all is right with the world again and the begrudgers can sleep easy.

Are you Ciarán Whelan, he was coming out with this nonsense last night?
If Kerry win then fair play to them, they just make better use of their resources. Anyone using Kerry as a defence of Dublin has no credibility whatsoever.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: T Fearon on September 18, 2017, 10:50:56 AM
The dislike of Dublin is now outdated.I was once a member of this group.But lets face it the present group is laced with humility,the Dubs fans are now good humoured,and they took their defeats to the likes of Down,Donegal,Armagh,Tyrone etc over the last 25 years with good grace.
I am an admirer of the Dubs now and salute this great team.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: ashman on September 18, 2017, 11:11:21 AM
When Kerry were beating all before them in the 70s and 80s there was no national hysteria about the imminent demise of the game. Back then it was simply a case of the "aristocrats" taking their rightful place at the top of the heap. God was in his heaven and all was right with the world.

There were no calls for something to be done when Kerry took their 37th All Ireland senior title in 2014 (their sixth since 2000). God was still in his heaven and all was still right with the world.

Did no one notice that Kerry won their fourth minor title on the trot yesterday? Perhaps it won't be long before all is right with the world again and the begrudgers can sleep easy.

There was of course much complaints in the 1970s and 1980s about Kerry dominating .  It was seen as bad for the game .  The Dublin domination now must be looked at in the context of GAA and government funding and the social factors in modern Ireland .

The bottom line is that today was a high water mark for football .  The Mayo team I think will receed a bit over the coming years and Dublin could well improve .

The problem was that the GAA didn't want a strong Dublin , worse still they NEEDED it .
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: 6th sam on September 18, 2017, 11:18:53 AM
The dislike of Dublin is now outdated.I was once a member of this group.But lets face it the present group is laced with humility,the Dubs fans are now good humoured,and they took their defeats to the likes of Down,Donegal,Armagh,Tyrone etc over the last 25 years with good grace.
I am an admirer of the Dubs now and salute this great team.
Fair play to the Dubs for channelling their hefty resources and producing a squad laced with several talented role models with great attitude e.g. Mccafferty, Mcmenamin, Fenton .....etc etc. Like any team they also seem to have their villains.
I cheered this group's first all-ireland in 2011, but genuinely fear that their undoubted advantages could destroy our association if they are not addressed. The inequities in the GAA around financial back up, resources, provincial structures, media influence , have been ignored for years but we now have a new generation of GAA followers who are no longer blinded by county and GAA loyalty , and are no longer prepared to accept these injustices and lack of parity.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: ashman on September 18, 2017, 11:32:22 AM
This isn't about disliking anyone .  The current Dublin team are in the main a decent group ,  their supporters are grand in the main .  The issue is the future of inter county football as a competitive entity .
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on September 18, 2017, 11:53:38 AM
There are two sides to this, and it needs to be considered very carefully.

Side 1: Dublin get a lot more money than the rest, they have the bulk of the population, within a short distance of each other, own training centre, play in Croke all the time etc etc.

Side 2: The GAA does great work in keeping youngsters occupied in something positive rather than getting up to no good in the capital.


I would worry that any attempt to realign side 1 to redress the balance in inter-county football would come at a significant cost to side 2.



I suppose, as an easy first step, the Dubs should have to play outside of Croke more often. Compared to the cost of the alternatives, a smaller gate is no big deal.

Beyond that, can monies currently directed to the Dublin county be reduced without affecting underage involvement? I dunno. It'd probably require a degree of both altruism and transparency that doesn't typically fit well in the GAA. Yeah, we can be transparent - when it suits us... and we can be altruistic... when it suits us. Not when one runs contrary to the other.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: 6th sam on September 18, 2017, 12:29:32 PM
There are two sides to this, and it needs to be considered very carefully.

Side 1: Dublin get a lot more money than the rest, they have the bulk of the population, within a short distance of each other, own training centre, play in Croke all the time etc etc.

Side 2: The GAA does great work in keeping youngsters occupied in something positive rather than getting up to no good in the capital.


I would worry that any attempt to realign side 1 to redress the balance in inter-county football would come at a significant cost to side 2.



I suppose, as an easy first step, the Dubs should have to play outside of Croke more often. Compared to the cost of the alternatives, a smaller gate is no big deal.

Beyond that, can monies currently directed to the Dublin county be reduced without affecting underage involvement? I dunno. It'd probably require a degree of both altruism and transparency that doesn't typically fit well in the GAA. Yeah, we can be transparent - when it suits us... and we can be altruistic... when it suits us. Not when one runs contrary to the other.
Agree, if it's not broken , don't fix it. Dublin's resources and success has hopefully seen an improvement in meaningful participation. So it's an urban model that works, and should be a template for other urban areas. I would be reluctant to reduce Dublins resources for underage etc, not least because of the meaningful employment it provides, which in my view is an important responsibility of any multimillion pound organisation . I just feel that the GAA needs to look at a model of ensuring those resources are equally available to others. I am a member of a rural club. If the GAA was able to fund DevelopmentOfficers for all large urban clubs and for clusters of rural clubs , then that would be a brilliant  development. Reorganising the Intercounty fixtures to create More revenue may help part finance such initiatives across the country . Such development officers could partly self-fund their roles by improving club governance , streamlining and fundraising.
Regarding Intercounty teams splitting Dublin must also be looked at, and rather than undermine current progress , it may actually enhance participation and development in the city . Imagine the excitement of a Leinster final between ballymun/finglas and Dunlaoghaire/rathdown😜
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: DUBSFORSAM1 on September 18, 2017, 12:31:34 PM
If Dublin weren`t about now then would people be saying Mayo have it too easy and the GAA needs to change to stop them winning?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: 6th sam on September 18, 2017, 12:42:09 PM
If Dublin weren`t about now then would people be saying Mayo have it too easy and the GAA needs to change to stop them winning?

As stated before , most of Dublin GAA is to be admired as they actually have developed GAA in the capital and have utilised their considerable resource and practical advantage , under the current system , brilliantly.

Very much like Kerry , Cork , Mayo , and Kilkenny in hurling , they have utilised well the advantages the current system gives them , and fair play to them! Dublin are not the problem here, inequality is the problem!
The GAA needs to take a look at its current fixture programme and Intercounty financial expenditure and legislate accordingly.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Rossfan on September 18, 2017, 12:47:55 PM
If Dublin weren`t about now then would people be saying Mayo have it too easy and the GAA needs to change to stop them winning?
Galway bet them in Connacht, extra time needed v Cork and Derry, Ros and Kerry held them to a draw.
So no people wouldn't.
Anyway there are about 6 or 8 Counties with bigger football populations than Mayowestros so they would go back to the pack.
Meanwhile the 1.3 million can't be just ignored.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Esmarelda on September 18, 2017, 01:00:39 PM
If Dublin weren`t about now then would people be saying Mayo have it too easy and the GAA needs to change to stop them winning?

As stated before , most of Dublin GAA is to be admired as they actually have developed GAA in the capital and have utilised their considerable resource and practical advantage , under the current system , brilliantly.

Very much like Kerry , Cork , Mayo , and Kilkenny in hurling , they have utilised well the advantages the current system gives them , and fair play to them! Dublin are not the problem here, inequality is the problem!
The GAA needs to take a look at its current fixture programme and Intercounty financial expenditure and legislate accordingly.
You've twice mentioned the bit in bold above. Could you explain what you're getting at?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: T Fearon on September 18, 2017, 01:37:16 PM
Dublin winning four recent All Ireland titles by the minimum margin doesn't strike me as an enormous gap fuelled by money.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: JoG2 on September 18, 2017, 01:43:27 PM
If Dublin weren`t about now then would people be saying Mayo have it too easy and the GAA needs to change to stop them winning?
Galway bet them in Connacht, extra time needed v Cork and Derry, Ros and Kerry held them to a draw.
So no people wouldn't.
Anyway there are about 6 or 8 Counties with bigger football populations than Mayowestros so they would go back to the pack.
Meanwhile the 1.3 million can't be just ignored.

do you Ross men ever come up for air? Youse are all bonkers
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Tony Baloney on September 18, 2017, 01:49:19 PM
Dublin winning four recent All Ireland titles by the minimum margin doesn't strike me as an enormous gap fuelled by money.
Fair point. Mayo have had the opportunity to finish off Dublin on more than one occasion and have failed to do so. The reasons why may be due to a lack of winning mentality and killer instinct in Mayo rather than demographics. That's hardly the fault of Dublin and had Mayo won yesterday this wouldn't be a topic of conversation.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: armaghniac on September 18, 2017, 02:09:24 PM
Mayo scoring 2 more points yesterday wouldn't change the unequal nature of Dublin.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: mrhardyannual on September 18, 2017, 03:06:20 PM
Dublin winning four recent All Ireland titles by the minimum margin doesn't strike me as an enormous gap fuelled by money.
Nor me. And if the difference between teams was based on cash spent on development, how come Kerry have won the last four Minor titles and not Dublin.  Thats where the coaching money should be seen first if it really is a factor.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: magpie seanie on September 18, 2017, 03:29:08 PM
This is not a GAA problem. It's a national problem. Dublin has become too big. too many jobs, companies etc located there. It's crazy and it's actually unfair on people living in Dublin in lots of ways. The place is choked up. You can't get around and it will only get worse as successive governments ignore or cannot tackle it.

There is no easy solution here. When it was first proposed many years ago to split Dublin very few were in favour. I think there's something almost childish about looking for it now. Especially when they pick Eoghan O'Gara in a final to self handicap!
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: lenny on September 18, 2017, 03:36:41 PM
Dublin winning four recent All Ireland titles by the minimum margin doesn't strike me as an enormous gap fuelled by money.
Nor me. And if the difference between teams was based on cash spent on development, how come Kerry have won the last four Minor titles and not Dublin.  Thats where the coaching money should be seen first if it really is a factor.

Exactly and if the difference is down to just money pumped into coaching and development why are Dublin hurlers going backwards. They have had the same so called financial advantages as the footballers and yet the gap between them and Kilkenny, galway etc seems to be widening.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: AZOffaly on September 18, 2017, 03:40:51 PM
Lads ye are mental. Put it like this, if the 1+ million euro ploughed into Dublin GAA coaching and games development, by the GAA, every year is NOT a factor in their improvement over the last 10 years or so, then it's the biggest waste of money since the eVoting machines.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Syferus on September 18, 2017, 03:41:06 PM
Dublin winning four recent All Ireland titles by the minimum margin doesn't strike me as an enormous gap fuelled by money.
Nor me. And if the difference between teams was based on cash spent on development, how come Kerry have won the last four Minor titles and not Dublin.  Thats where the coaching money should be seen first if it really is a factor.

This is utter nonsense in the face of Dublin winning so many underage Leinsters and AIs in recent years, and for the fact it's always easier for smaller counties to compete at underage than senior where the coaching and set-ups grow even more professional. Dublin can be beat at minor, but not senior. That not tell you something about what's happening between those grades?

I get someone like Ferron is trying to court attention with daftness like the above but I expect better from you.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Orchard park on September 18, 2017, 03:41:22 PM
lots of this can be sorted by Croke park.

one or 2 centralised jersey sponsor for all counties, local commercial deals like AIG / Kerry etc out the window and split the pot according to need not accoring to population or club numbers. D4 and D3 teams get greater share to enable genuine development

all counties then entitled to  develop local deals like subaru cars, gibson hotels, benetti suits etc.........
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Orchard park on September 18, 2017, 03:42:43 PM
Dublin winning four recent All Ireland titles by the minimum margin doesn't strike me as an enormous gap fuelled by money.
Nor me. And if the difference between teams was based on cash spent on development, how come Kerry have won the last four Minor titles and not Dublin.  Thats where the coaching money should be seen first if it really is a factor.

This is utter nonsense in the face of Dublin winning so many underage Leinsters and AIs in recent years, and for the fact it's always easier for smaller counties to compete at underage than senior where the coaching and set-ups grow even more professional. Dublin can be beat at minor, but not senior. That not tell you something about what's happening between those grades?

I get someone like Ferron is trying to court attention with daftness like the above but I expect better from you.

how many minor titles have Dublin won over past 15 years ?????

they reap a huge reward at u21 level from developing the pick of what are generally moderate minor teams
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Rossfan on September 18, 2017, 03:43:48 PM
That hurling gap was well narrowed for a few years mind.
Dublin hurlers were on a par with Laois/Antrim for 40 years or more.
This decade they won Leinster and the NHL and we're in hard luck not to make the AI Final one year.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: rodney trotter on September 18, 2017, 03:44:32 PM
Because a lot of their better Hurlers wouldn't play under Cunningham.  They also lost Costello and Kilkenny to the Footballers after Minor level. Thomas Brady one of their best Hurlers left for the Footballers 2 years ago, got very little game time .
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Dinny Breen on September 18, 2017, 03:48:22 PM
Christ do people only gauge success in All-Irelands

As for hurling. seriously

5 Leinster Minors and 3 runners-up in the last 12 years. Prior to that it was 1 in 40 years.

4 Leinster u21s since 2007 and 2 runners up. Prior to that you have to go back to 1972.

1 Senior Leinster Title in 2013, 1st in 50 odd years.  They even won the National League for the 1st time 70 years in 2011.

The hurling success is not measured in All-Irelands but from where they were before Bertie's cash intervention supplemented by GAA money to now, is miles apart.

Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Orchard park on September 18, 2017, 03:59:54 PM
Because a lot of their better Hurlers wouldn't play under Cunningham.  They also lost Costello and Kilkenny to the Footballers after Minor level. Thomas Brady one of their best Hurlers left for the Footballers 2 years ago, got very little game time .

given Tomas brady changed over to football in 2012 and retired from intercounty football last year the maths are well out
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Esmarelda on September 18, 2017, 04:19:21 PM
lots of this can be sorted by Croke park.

one or 2 centralised jersey sponsor for all counties, local commercial deals like AIG / Kerry etc out the window and split the pot according to need not accoring to population or club numbers. D4 and D3 teams get greater share to enable genuine development

all counties then entitled to  develop local deals like subaru cars, gibson hotels, benetti suits etc.........
I'm not sure how this would be done but I think the idea is correct. The AIG money, for example, should not be allowed to go to Dublin GAA in full.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Orchard park on September 18, 2017, 04:20:40 PM
not too sure either but i think the concept is solid.

yes AIG sponsor every county jersey is my idea
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: The Hill is Blue on September 18, 2017, 05:55:36 PM
Dublin won the All Ireland by a point yesterday after looking for much of the game as though they would lose it. So your congratulations and best wishes lads are much appreciated.

The winning point was scored by Dean Rock the son of an All Ireland winner. The RTÉ man of the match was James McCarthy the son of another All Ireland winner. Now there's no way these lads would be playing Gaelic Football if it wasn't for the money.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: mrhardyannual on September 18, 2017, 06:13:03 PM
Dublin winning four recent All Ireland titles by the minimum margin doesn't strike me as an enormous gap fuelled by money.
Nor me. And if the difference between teams was based on cash spent on development, how come Kerry have won the last four Minor titles and not Dublin.  Thats where the coaching money should be seen first if it really is a factor.

This is utter nonsense in the face of Dublin winning so many underage Leinsters and AIs in recent years, and for the fact it's always easier for smaller counties to compete at underage than senior where the coaching and set-ups grow even more professional. Dublin can be beat at minor, but not senior. That not tell you something about what's happening between those grades?

I get someone like Ferron is trying to court attention with daftness like the above but I expect better from you.
Meath has a current population of over 190K and Kildare of 220K. Both are counties with long and deeply established GAA roots. Both counties are well economically better of than the average, are short distance from Dublin in terms of work and college and have access to wealthy companies for sponsorship. Mayo by comparison has 130K, little industry  and long distances from colleges. If money is the difference then both Meath and Kildare should be our-performing Mayo at all levels. But they are not. Counties need to look at their own short-comings before they go looking for soft answers like the money spent in putting games officers into primary schools in Dublin.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Orchard park on September 18, 2017, 06:15:39 PM
Money is the default excuse for all under achieving counties.  I'm based in limericks where the ultimate gaa sugar daddy reigns and it isn't translating to senior  success
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: mrhardyannual on September 18, 2017, 06:22:57 PM
Dublin won the All Ireland by a point yesterday after looking for much of the game as though they would lose it. So your congratulations and best wishes lads are much appreciated.

The winning point was scored by Dean Rock the son of an All Ireland winner. The RTÉ man of the match was James McCarthy the son of another All Ireland winner. Now there's no way these lads would be playing Gaelic Football if it wasn't for the money.
From Stephen Rochford down, there is no one in Mayo who doesn't accept that we were beaten by a great team yesterday. The work being done for example in Ballymun Kickhams by Christie and others pre-dates all this blather about development money. Ignore the begrudgers and enjoy the three-in a row. Hopefully we'll have another crack at stopping it becoming four as we did to the equally great Galway three in a row side fifty years ago.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Dinny Breen on September 18, 2017, 06:49:11 PM
Amazes me how some people just don't know or don't want to know how talent identity, talent development, elite development and elite preparation works in sport. Sport is a multi-billion euro industry, if winning is somehow just left to culture and wanting it more then someone somewhere is wasting an awful lot money .
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: From the Bunker on September 18, 2017, 07:15:42 PM
Dublin won the All Ireland by a point yesterday after looking for much of the game as though they would lose it. So your congratulations and best wishes lads are much appreciated.

The winning point was scored by Dean Rock the son of an All Ireland winner. The RTÉ man of the match was James McCarthy the son of another All Ireland winner. Now there's no way these lads would be playing Gaelic Football if it wasn't for the money.

Now we are putting it down to Genetics! The denial takes a new twist!
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on September 18, 2017, 07:32:17 PM
Dublin always had the population advantage yes but what they didn't have was the financial resources behind them to get organised, get dozens of coaches out there to schools, etc, etc.

Population on it's own guarantees nothing but population + money and organisation is hard to beat.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: T Fearon on September 18, 2017, 07:34:58 PM
Money can't buy commitment,composure,discipline and determination,the four basic qualities Dublin had yesterday to see them home.Jim Gavin must now be considered the best manager of all time.But for an uncharacteristic miscalculation against Donegal in 2014, he would already be celebrating five in a row.Had he been manager of Mayo yesterday,I have no doubt they would have won.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Rossfan on September 18, 2017, 07:42:51 PM
Selecting O'Gara to start an All Ireland Final knocks a few points off him in the "Best manager of all time" contest.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Orchard park on September 18, 2017, 07:43:06 PM
Gavin had a serious miscalculation in team selection yesterday also
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: T Fearon on September 18, 2017, 08:04:01 PM
He rectified the things that weren't working successfully.That's what makes him such a great manager.I read an interesting article,that his profession means he spends a lot of time in the air,and has developed coolness and composure by necessity and humility,and he inculcates these qualities into the team,to great effect.

Do you think Pillar Caffrey would have win four All Irelands with this Dublin team?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: From the Bunker on September 18, 2017, 08:24:37 PM
Money can't buy commitment,composure,discipline and determination,the four basic qualities Dublin had yesterday to see them home.Jim Gavin must now be considered the best manager of all time.But for an uncharacteristic miscalculation against Donegal in 2014, he would already be celebrating five in a row.Had he been manager of Mayo yesterday,I have no doubt they would have won.

Money can buy all of the above. It can buy the people to set up the above structures. As for the tactical Substitutions. Jez, how many county teams can bring on players of the caliber of Paul Flynn, Diarmuid Connolly, Kevin McManamon,Bernard Brogan, Niall Scully and Cormac Costello. It's easy make these calls when the players are there.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: ashman on September 18, 2017, 09:18:28 PM
He rectified the things that weren't working successfully.That's what makes him such a great manager.I read an interesting article,that his profession means he spends a lot of time in the air,and has developed coolness and composure by necessity and humility,and he inculcates these qualities into the team,to great effect.

Do you think Pillar Caffrey would have win four All Irelands with this Dublin team?

Hard to say but I think Pat Gilroy is the link .
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Rossfan on September 18, 2017, 09:51:43 PM
Money can't buy commitment,composure,discipline and determination,the four basic qualities Dublin had yesterday to see them home.Jim Gavin must now be considered the best manager of all time.But for an uncharacteristic miscalculation against Donegal in 2014, he would already be celebrating five in a row.Had he been manager of Mayo yesterday,I have no doubt they would have won.

Money can buy all of the above. It can buy the people to set up the above structures. As for the tactical Substitutions. Jez, how many county teams can bring on players of the caliber of Paul Flynn, Diarmuid Connolly, Kevin McManamon,Bernard Brogan, Niall Scully and Cormac Costello. It's easy make these calls when the players are there.
Like playing cards - easy to play with a great hand or a crap hand. But the good player can make the most of an in between hand.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Syferus on September 18, 2017, 10:03:43 PM
Money can't buy commitment,composure,discipline and determination,the four basic qualities Dublin had yesterday to see them home.Jim Gavin must now be considered the best manager of all time.But for an uncharacteristic miscalculation against Donegal in 2014, he would already be celebrating five in a row.Had he been manager of Mayo yesterday,I have no doubt they would have won.

Money can buy all of the above. It can buy the people to set up the above structures. As for the tactical Substitutions. Jez, how many county teams can bring on players of the caliber of Paul Flynn, Diarmuid Connolly, Kevin McManamon,Bernard Brogan, Niall Scully and Cormac Costello. It's easy make these calls when the players are there.
Like playing cards - easy to play with a great hand or a crap hand. But the good player can make the most of an in between hand.

Good to see you giving Kevin his due.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: manfromdelmonte on September 18, 2017, 10:47:33 PM
Would love to see Jim in charge of Wicklow or Leitrim

Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Orchard park on September 18, 2017, 10:49:43 PM
He would leave them better than he found them anyways
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Syferus on September 18, 2017, 11:09:56 PM
He would leave them better than he found them anyways

If you knew Leitrim you might think differently on that one.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on September 19, 2017, 08:31:08 AM
For those saying money isn't a problem and that this is a non-issue - then I assume you'd agree the Dublin county board would have no objection to giving a load of it back to central council to redistribute?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Orchard park on September 19, 2017, 08:44:19 AM
So gavin wouldn't improve leitrim football if he went at it for 3 years..

If you knew football you wouldn't say that,


Or do you still think it's all about money
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: TheGreatest on September 19, 2017, 09:40:39 AM
 :D

Enjoy the winter lads.

Greatest team of all time. Wont change my mind.

Be a long winter for some of you.

Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: north_antrim_hound on September 19, 2017, 10:06:31 AM
So gavin wouldn't improve leitrim football if he went at it for 3 years..

If you knew football you wouldn't say that,


Or do you still think it's all about money

Are you trying to be funny
He would have zero impact on a small county
He has a player population the same as the whole of Ulster combined
And unlimited financial resources

Maybe if he got them all new Toyota cars and SuperValu indorsement deals he might get up a division tops

Bit of reality here please
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: north_antrim_hound on September 19, 2017, 10:09:37 AM
He would leave them better than he found them anyways

If you knew Leitrim you might think differently on that one.

He would their county board with a bit more debt anyway

Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: T Fearon on September 19, 2017, 10:29:48 AM
Jim Gavin is the ideal man to rescue Ryanair as well.O'Leary out!
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: north_antrim_hound on September 19, 2017, 10:45:20 AM
Jim Gavin is the ideal man to rescue Ryanair as well.O'Leary out!

Now there's a thought, he works in the aviation industry as well

Seems that O'Leary's getting all his karma back now in one week
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: magpie seanie on September 19, 2017, 11:22:22 AM
Amazes me how some people just don't know or don't want to know how talent identity, talent development, elite development and elite preparation works in sport. Sport is a multi-billion euro industry, if winning is somehow just left to culture and wanting it more then someone somewhere is wasting an awful lot money .


Well what are Mayo doing that no one else is doing? Surely Mayo do not have greater resources or playing numbers that Kildare or Meath? And they've drawn twice and lost by a point 2 times in the last 4 years with Dublin, i.e. they're not only competitive an odd day, they're able to match Dublin all the time.

You do have a point to a degree but only to a degree. In the end only 15 players are on the field. If it was 30 a side (on a pitch twice the size, indulge me for the sake of argument!!!) Dublin would win 10 in a row, or more. They might have 40-50 players that are intercounty standard but all you need is 25.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Rossfan on September 19, 2017, 11:26:25 AM
But on the law of averages Dublin's 25 will be better than the rest.
Their 21 were better than Mayowestros' on Sunday once again.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: TheGreatest on September 19, 2017, 12:00:35 PM
Yeah and Tony McEntee is with Mayo for the love of the game. Give me a break, they spend the most on Senior football preparations and they have and spend so much money they can afford to throw away expensive GPS units.

Anyway, Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinion of sheep.

Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: blast05 on September 19, 2017, 12:22:04 PM
Yeah and Tony McEntee is with Mayo for the love of the game. Give me a break, they spend the most on Senior football preparations and they have and spend so much money they can afford to throw away expensive GPS units.

Anyway, Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinion of sheep.

Can you send me a link to the Dublin accounts that gives a break down in their spend ? .... its freely available for Mayo.
Yes, Mayo spent more in 2016 (presuming the unpublished Dubs accounts are believable) albeit ~€580K was on travel expenses. Dubs could only have spent a small fraction of that on travel money (but of course i can't check to confirm)...... and yee didn't have a junior team in an All-Ireland final, nor U-21's getting to and winning that final, nor hotel expenses for the many trips to Dublin, etc, etc
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Dinny Breen on September 19, 2017, 12:54:09 PM
Amazes me how some people just don't know or don't want to know how talent identity, talent development, elite development and elite preparation works in sport. Sport is a multi-billion euro industry, if winning is somehow just left to culture and wanting it more then someone somewhere is wasting an awful lot money .


Well what are Mayo doing that no one else is doing? Surely Mayo do not have greater resources or playing numbers that Kildare or Meath? And they've drawn twice and lost by a point 2 times in the last 4 years with Dublin, i.e. they're not only competitive an odd day, they're able to match Dublin all the time.

You do have a point to a degree but only to a degree. In the end only 15 players are on the field. If it was 30 a side (on a pitch twice the size, indulge me for the sake of argument!!!) Dublin would win 10 in a row, or more. They might have 40-50 players that are intercounty standard but all you need is 25.

Firstly I think it's important to stop looking at Dublin "only" won by a point, whether it's one point or 20 points Dublin have still won and will keep winning. Dublin are not outcome orientated, it's becoming a cliche but they are very much process orientated. I think these 1 point defeats are giving people false hope and "what if" scenarios that never get applied to the winners. When Dublin start losing successive games by a point I will have hope. And remember next year if the get caught out in the Super 8 they will still have a 2nd chance.

To address your question, why have Mayo succeeded in being competitive where Kildare/Meath your examples have not.  The simple answer is Mayo play in a Province where it's possible to win one game and find yourself in the last 12 so when it comes to planning etc that helps, it's another GAA inequality, this time in Connacht's favour. Mayo have also invested heavily in elite preparation, McEntee, Solan, Buckley, Brosnihan, Horan etc also they have that elite culture for years as developed by James Horan who used Cian O'Neill Kieran Shannon among others. They spent well on physical, technical, tactical and mental coaches. Kildare and Meath until recently were shambles, Kildare because we had no money and Meath through poor managerial appointments and poor support from the County Boards.  Through this period Mayo have retained Division 1 status, a massive advantage over Kildare/Meath (thanks Jason), this helps develop players, they also have an experienced leadership group led by Moran and Higgins. So currently Mayo have an elite culture, this takes years to develop and is costly to fund especially when a large portion of your squad works away from home. Now something Mayo don't have to deal with is they don't have the behemoth on their door step, they don't have to contest the same provincial championship. Dublin have won 11 of last 12 Leinster titles, think SPL, it kills the sport, I would say anecdotally attendances are down year on year, 12K watched Kildare v Meath, the smallest championship crowd that I can ever remember between those two teams. That was a regular 40K + crowd at CP. Like I said before take Dublin place them in Ulster/Connacht and perhaps even Munster and watch those provincial competitions go the same way, teams get less competitive, confidence drains and the competition dies.



     

Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Bord na Mona man on September 19, 2017, 01:07:39 PM
Kildare and Meath until recently were shambles, Kildare because we had no money and Meath through poor managerial appointments and poor support from the County Boards.
For how many years in the last quarter century have Kildare not had money?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: AZOffaly on September 19, 2017, 01:14:53 PM
I think at senior level teams like Mayo, Kerry and Tyrone are investing heavily to keep treading water in the race to be second to Dublin. At senior level especially, you can invest a load of money to try get the same sort of backroom team, support staff etc as Dublin, and then on any given day it's 15 v 15, or 21 v 21, and you might catch Dublin if you are one of those sort of teams.

There's nothing to stop Galway, Tipperary, Armagh, Donegal or whomever finding a sugar daddy and investing massive money on a senior team and having a good 3 to 5 year spell.

The fact that this can, and does, happen allows people to say 'Look, Mayo ran Dublin to a point', or 'Kerry beat them in the league' etc. But that is not sustainable.

What is sustainable is investing heavily in coaching and structures, and then supplementing that with near professional approach when those lads come off the conveyor belt. That is what Dublin have, and the annual money they are receiving and using very well, goes a long way to allowing them to do that.

I don't begrudge Dublin their population advantages. I don't begrudge them Croke Park. I don't begrudge them the large employment market on their doorsteps. They are all advantage, sure, but they are inherent advantages that make the Dubs the Dubs and have always been there.

My issue is the GAA making a conscious effort those years ago to give Dublin a long term competitive advantage, in the name of fending off soccer and rugby. In doing so, they allowed Dublin the opportunity to fully exploit those natural advantages, and to be fair to them they have done a brilliant job of it.

Simply speaking, other counties (with the possible exception of Kerry), are having to decide on whether they invest the money they have into trying to keep up with the Dub seniors, or investing in their own coaching and games development.

If the GAA allocated a per person coaching and games grant, across the country, then at least you could say they are not handing an advantage to Dublin. An advantage they don't need in my opinion. The setup in Dublin is brilliant. The clubs are huge and booming. And I think they'd be booming without the 1.3 million or whatever every year.

The damage in the short term is done, in my opinion. And dressing up the championship as a Super 8 or whatever is not going to reverse the damage without having some sort of plan for the rest of the country like they did for Dublin back in the day. There's rugby and soccer in other counties as well, and Summer soccer is coming. So if the GAA is interested in other counties being competitive, they are going to have to help out in a more meaningful way, just like they did with the Dubs.

None of this should be seen as anti Dub by the way, it's just anti competitive imbalance.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: vallankumous on September 19, 2017, 01:20:46 PM
A bigger problem is the drop out rate at senior level outside Dublin.
All teams compete at underage as all players live within the county and don't have the pressures that come with adulthood. This is not something the GAA did, it's part of the changing economic circumstances. The GAA however have done nothing to stop the drop out rate. Playing senior club football is now too difficult to sustain for many people. The demands on the field, off the field, with fixtures are all scary prospect to young people starting their life in work or starting a family.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: AZOffaly on September 19, 2017, 01:34:26 PM
A bigger problem is the drop out rate at senior level outside Dublin.
All teams compete at underage as all players live within the county and don't have the pressures that come with adulthood. This is not something the GAA did, it's part of the changing economic circumstances. The GAA however have done nothing to stop the drop out rate. Playing senior club football is now too difficult to sustain for many people. The demands on the field, off the field, with fixtures are all scary prospect to young people starting their life in work or starting a family.

That's true. I actually flagged this back in 1998!!! On a thread on the old GAABoard I worried about the future of club football and hurling at senior level as demands became more and more intrusive on club players.

It's a tricky one though. Fixtures can be solved with a bit of effort I think, but the commitment issue is a harder one to fix. If you want to win, the bar has been raised, and anyone who gives less is automatically behind the curve. You might end up with a whole country of junior club footballers and hurlers. Junior club is probably at a similar level as senior club was in the early 90s.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Rossfan on September 19, 2017, 01:36:38 PM
Excellent post by AZ  earlier.
 GAA HQ should be looking at the crisis of 3 Eastern Counties with big populations 2 of whom spend most of their time in Div 4 and the other not much higher.
Antrim (est Nationalist pop 200k+), Louth 128,884 and Wicklow 142,425.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on September 19, 2017, 01:46:26 PM
Amazes me how some people just don't know or don't want to know how talent identity, talent development, elite development and elite preparation works in sport. Sport is a multi-billion euro industry, if winning is somehow just left to culture and wanting it more then someone somewhere is wasting an awful lot money .


Well what are Mayo doing that no one else is doing?

I don't think Mayo are doing anything revolutionary in their system to be honest. Galway and Roscommon have been dominant at underage in Connacht for a good few years now for example. I think they just have a great crop of players together currently (with size and athleticism) and some very good coaching to bring it all together. Mayo are not short on a few bob to spend on preparation of the senior team either compared to most other counties. The team probably has a shelf-life at the very top to but to be fair to them they seem to come back every year so far. One year it'll end but they are getting a hell of a run from the current bunch.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: blast05 on September 19, 2017, 01:46:51 PM
Quote
The simple answer is Mayo play in a Province where it's possible to win one game and find yourself in the last 12

Not in past 2 years
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: magpie seanie on September 19, 2017, 01:59:23 PM
Amazes me how some people just don't know or don't want to know how talent identity, talent development, elite development and elite preparation works in sport. Sport is a multi-billion euro industry, if winning is somehow just left to culture and wanting it more then someone somewhere is wasting an awful lot money .


Well what are Mayo doing that no one else is doing? Surely Mayo do not have greater resources or playing numbers that Kildare or Meath? And they've drawn twice and lost by a point 2 times in the last 4 years with Dublin, i.e. they're not only competitive an odd day, they're able to match Dublin all the time.

You do have a point to a degree but only to a degree. In the end only 15 players are on the field. If it was 30 a side (on a pitch twice the size, indulge me for the sake of argument!!!) Dublin would win 10 in a row, or more. They might have 40-50 players that are intercounty standard but all you need is 25.

Firstly I think it's important to stop looking at Dublin "only" won by a point, whether it's one point or 20 points Dublin have still won and will keep winning. Dublin are not outcome orientated, it's becoming a cliche but they are very much process orientated. I think these 1 point defeats are giving people false hope and "what if" scenarios that never get applied to the winners. When Dublin start losing successive games by a point I will have hope. And remember next year if the get caught out in the Super 8 they will still have a 2nd chance.

To address your question, why have Mayo succeeded in being competitive where Kildare/Meath your examples have not.  The simple answer is Mayo play in a Province where it's possible to win one game and find yourself in the last 12 so when it comes to planning etc that helps, it's another GAA inequality, this time in Connacht's favour. Mayo have also invested heavily in elite preparation, McEntee, Solan, Buckley, Brosnihan, Horan etc also they have that elite culture for years as developed by James Horan who used Cian O'Neill Kieran Shannon among others. They spent well on physical, technical, tactical and mental coaches. Kildare and Meath until recently were shambles, Kildare because we had no money and Meath through poor managerial appointments and poor support from the County Boards.  Through this period Mayo have retained Division 1 status, a massive advantage over Kildare/Meath (thanks Jason), this helps develop players, they also have an experienced leadership group led by Moran and Higgins. So currently Mayo have an elite culture, this takes years to develop and is costly to fund especially when a large portion of your squad works away from home. Now something Mayo don't have to deal with is they don't have the behemoth on their door step, they don't have to contest the same provincial championship. Dublin have won 11 of last 12 Leinster titles, think SPL, it kills the sport, I would say anecdotally attendances are down year on year, 12K watched Kildare v Meath, the smallest championship crowd that I can ever remember between those two teams. That was a regular 40K + crowd at CP. Like I said before take Dublin place them in Ulster/Connacht and perhaps even Munster and watch those provincial competitions go the same way, teams get less competitive, confidence drains and the competition dies.



   


Dinny - good reply and I appreciate the detail. I'd accept a lot of that and I don't know the lie of the land in Kildare and Meath and that's why I asked.

Mayo being in Connacht isn't really the benefit you portray it to be. The last two seasons, possibly the two finals they've performed best in, they went out of Connacht early with a whimper. They then proceeded to struggle to teams that Kildare or Meath would probably beat before finally kicking into gear. So to my mind Mayo don't see Connacht as a benefit at all. They don't seem bothered by it. I think the provincial championships are all dead or dying anyway, even Ulster isn't as good as it once was. Only the hope of a provincial title keeps many counties going which I accept many in Leinster do not even have now.

Essentially your answer on Kildare and Meath is that they have been very poorly run county boards. Decent coaching structures, development squads etc can be put in place relatively inexpensively. I agreed with the GAA's funding of Dublin's coaching plan. I believe the same needs to be done in the surrounding counties now. They need to get their act together and develop a workable plan and demand funding. I believe that's possible but I'd be very aware of the challenges.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Orchard park on September 19, 2017, 02:53:42 PM
good solid points Magpie.

most counties are using a cheap excuse of dublin having too much money. The piopulation imbalance may be growingh a  bit but i would guessthe proportion of playing adults in dublin compared to Sligo or roscommon is little different to 40 years ago
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on September 19, 2017, 03:12:18 PM
good solid points Magpie.

most counties are using a cheap excuse of dublin having too much money. The piopulation imbalance may be growingh a  bit but i would guessthe proportion of playing adults in dublin compared to Sligo or roscommon is little different to 40 years ago

Number of playing adults is not a good measure though IMO. I would say the massive explosion in Dublin has been in the number of playing kids with individual clubs capable of fielding numerous youth teams. And the more kids that come though the coaching system the more high quality playing adults you will eventually produce down the line.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Syferus on September 19, 2017, 03:13:44 PM
good solid points Magpie.

most counties are using a cheap excuse of dublin having too much money. The piopulation imbalance may be growingh a  bit but i would guessthe proportion of playing adults in dublin compared to Sligo or roscommon is little different to 40 years ago

Don't be pulling stuff out of your arse - do you know much much the population of Dublin has increased since 1977? More people means more chances of finding a lad with the talent and the temperament for football. And the coaching the money brings with it means few exceptional talents slip through the cracks.

Also I see you're actually admitting Dublin have much more money now, albeit you're trying to downplay its significance.

There's two types of people on this issue, those willing to stick their heads in the sand and those who can see the rotten core of IC football.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Orchard park on September 19, 2017, 05:40:48 PM
show me the facts Syferis about the proportion playing adult football now vs 40 years ago as you seem to know ... I am suggesting its proportionate to then but dont have the facts to prove it and neither was i ramming it down anyone's throat it was the caseo therwise dont go around accusing people who are engaging in constructive debate of taking out of their arses.

also seeing you know so much about dublin how much per player is the GAA centrally giving to Dublin as opposed to the per player contribution in other counties.......fair question if you can deal in hard facts as opposed to cheap lazy Ewan McKenna style unsubstantiated bollixoligy


and i stated others are using Dublin as having too much money as a cheap excuse for their own failings. Trump at his best couldn;t twist that one around like you have.........

anyways do you not have Junior cert grinds
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: trileacman on September 19, 2017, 05:49:18 PM
A bigger problem is the drop out rate at senior level outside Dublin.
All teams compete at underage as all players live within the county and don't have the pressures that come with adulthood. This is not something the GAA did, it's part of the changing economic circumstances. The GAA however have done nothing to stop the drop out rate. Playing senior club football is now too difficult to sustain for many people. The demands on the field, off the field, with fixtures are all scary prospect to young people starting their life in work or starting a family.

That's true. I actually flagged this back in 1998!!! On a thread on the old GAABoard I worried about the future of club football and hurling at senior level as demands became more and more intrusive on club players.

It's a tricky one though. Fixtures can be solved with a bit of effort I think, but the commitment issue is a harder one to fix. If you want to win, the bar has been raised, and anyone who gives less is automatically behind the curve. You might end up with a whole country of junior club footballers and hurlers. Junior club is probably at a similar level as senior club was in the early 90s.

Your last sentence is bang on the money. Guys get disinterested as the stakes rise and there's dawn training sessions for half the year and a drink ban for the other half. Now that culture is irreversibl and I appreciate that it does breed high quality football but the "professionalism" today is really a double edged sword.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: manfromdelmonte on September 19, 2017, 05:56:06 PM
show me the facts Syferis about the proportion playing adult football now vs 40 years ago as you seem to know ... I am suggesting its proportionate to then but dont have the facts to prove it and neither was i ramming it down anyone's throat it was the caseo therwise dont go around accusing people who are engaging in constructive debate of taking out of their arses.

also seeing you know so much about dublin how much per player is the GAA centrally giving to Dublin as opposed to the per player contribution in other counties.......fair question if you can deal in hard facts as opposed to cheap lazy Ewan McKenna style unsubstantiated bollixoligy


and i stated others are using Dublin as having too much money as a cheap excuse for their own failings. Trump at his best couldn;t twist that one around like you have.........

anyways do you not have Junior cert grinds
what other county in Ireland can get a FULL TIME coach into every willing school in the county? and often to coach every class in the school at some stage during the year?
many of them current county players or club senior players?

Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Orchard park on September 19, 2017, 06:03:49 PM
and who is paying for that....................

half the cost is paid by the local club who have to fundraise for it............ in most instances the coach is in any given school one day a week and come back to me with the names of the senior intercounty players working in that role,
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Captain Scarlet on September 19, 2017, 06:08:00 PM
Correct me if I am wrong but was the whole Leinster Rugby bogeyman one of the main reasons why the Dubs got so much backing?
The Dubs are at a stage where they are self-sufficient and their success could continue even without the finances coming in from the GAA or any other Government grants.
In the meantime rugby has spread further and the commuter counties are all on the bandwagon while the GAA teams have been left to be crushed under the blue wave.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on September 19, 2017, 09:48:55 PM
and i stated others are using Dublin as having too much money as a cheap excuse for their own failings.

Just to confirm, you'd be happy for the Dublin County Board to hand back much of the money they get from central council back for redistribution in other counties?


[seeing as you consider this money to be unimportant...]
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: TheGreatest on September 20, 2017, 09:18:59 AM
This is a great read lads, please continue....

One point, I posted it on another thread before I see this, Dublin, 1 minor in over 20 years, beaten by Derry this year and Meath, u-17s beaten by Meath. Or does money only start winning you things at U-21.

If you are worried about domination of the game, id worry about Kerry, once this Dublin team is gone, Kerry will take over, some counties will never ever win an all Ireland or some will not compete at the latter stages of it, look at the history of the GAA , the semis and finals, there is a pattern to the teams that are there or there abouts every year.

If I were you lot, id go down to your local club and start coaching, its easy to learn how to coach the basics of the game, its a simple game to play. Let me know how you all get on.

Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Orchard park on September 20, 2017, 10:58:23 AM
and i stated others are using Dublin as having too much money as a cheap excuse for their own failings.

Just to confirm, you'd be happy for the Dublin County Board to hand back much of the money they get from central council back for redistribution in other counties?


[seeing as you consider this money to be unimportant...]

Firtstly i'm not from dublin and have no gra for any team dominating but the money thing is a red herring. I dont see why Dublin would return any money tbh., the grants received per playing head are no greater than anywhere else are they. I equallly have no problem with increased grants to other counties to help them develop further.

But it is cheap and lazy to think that money is the cause of success........ the dublin football success is built on developing good un21 and seriously good seniors form moderate minor teams really. Its also built on most clubs being run by lin many cases country men who are putting huge hours into club and game development. I know several who are clocking up 30 clujb hours a week in addition to having a job......
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: trueblue1234 on September 20, 2017, 11:07:09 AM
and i stated others are using Dublin as having too much money as a cheap excuse for their own failings.

Just to confirm, you'd be happy for the Dublin County Board to hand back much of the money they get from central council back for redistribution in other counties?


[seeing as you consider this money to be unimportant...]

Firtstly i'm not from dublin and have no gra for any team dominating but the money thing is a red herring. I dont see why Dublin would return any money tbh., the grants received per playing head are no greater than anywhere else are they. I equallly have no problem with increased grants to other counties to help them develop further.

But it is cheap and lazy to think that money is the cause of success........ the dublin football success is built on developing good un21 and seriously good seniors form moderate minor teams really. Its also built on most clubs being run by lin many cases country men who are putting huge hours into club and game development. I know several who are clocking up 30 clujb hours a week in addition to having a job......

So, say we were able to give you a figure that showed that Dublin got much more investment per playing head, you'd accept that it's unfair?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: AZOffaly on September 20, 2017, 11:18:58 AM
Like this?

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Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Orchard park on September 20, 2017, 11:19:41 AM
absolutely i'd accept it as unfair and that if it was the case all other should have at least that amount per playing head
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: AZOffaly on September 20, 2017, 11:22:22 AM
absolutely i'd accept it as unfair and that if it was the case all other should have at least that amount per playing head

That's all I'm advocating for. I don't want to punish Dublin for being good at using their money. I don't even want to split them up or whinge about jobs and facilities and home advantages. That's part of the beauty of beating them.

But Jaysus at least let the GAA itself not handicap the other counties by giving Dublin a huge headstart in their development. Even if the raw numbers are different, at least balance out the Per Player funding.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Orchard park on September 20, 2017, 11:23:10 AM
AZ

does that include all juveniles ??

an interesting map But I find it hard to believe Cork accept the lowest grants in the country though
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: AZOffaly on September 20, 2017, 11:26:43 AM
It's not my graphic, but it does illustrate numbers I've read elsewhere. This is the one they are putting for registered players. I'd say it does include juveniles though because if you look at Tipperary say, and said there were 50 clubs. If each club fielded 3 adult teams, and each team had a full panel of 30, that would still only add up to 4,500, and the Tipp figure is 15,000

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Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: magpie seanie on September 20, 2017, 11:32:51 AM
Seriously low number of registered players in Dublin is it not?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: magpie seanie on September 20, 2017, 11:37:02 AM
39k registered players in a population of 1,300,000 - about 3%. Sligo has approx 5k in a population of circa 60,000 - about 8.3%.

Maybe they need more money, still underperforming.  :P
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: AZOffaly on September 20, 2017, 11:41:16 AM
Seriously low number of registered players in Dublin is it not?

I don't know Seanie. I don't think Dublin has massive amount of clubs compared to the likes of Cork. I know some of the clubs have massive numbers alright, but then other clubs have much smaller numbers with no parish rule or whatever. Big clubs like Kilmacud, Vincents, Brigids and the like probably have massive numbers.

Again if we do the maths, there's approx 90 clubs in Dublin going by their website (including clubs like AIB, BOI etc).

39,000 divided by 90 is about 430 each. I'd imagine when you factor in big clubs and smaller clubs, that's about right.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: magpie seanie on September 20, 2017, 11:46:09 AM
Seriously low number of registered players in Dublin is it not?

I don't know Seanie. I don't think Dublin has massive amount of clubs compared to the likes of Cork. I know some of the clubs have massive numbers alright, but then other clubs have much smaller numbers with no parish rule or whatever. Big clubs like Kilmacud, Vincents, Brigids and the like probably have massive numbers.

Again if we do the maths, there's approx 90 clubs in Dublin going by their website (including clubs like AIB, BOI etc).

39,000 divided by 90 is about 430 each. I'd imagine when you factor in big clubs and smaller clubs, that's about right.


Not contesting the accuracy of the numbers.....just that it's a low % of the population though. What would it be if they hadn't got the investment? I'm being a bit devils advocate here. I'd be interested in seeing playing numbers as a % of county population.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Rossfan on September 20, 2017, 11:50:43 AM
39k registered players in a population of 1,300,000 - about 3%. Sligo has approx 5k in a population of circa 60,000 - about 8.3%.

Ros has 1,600 more than Sligo I see.
Populations are Ros 64,544. Sligo 65,535.
Feckin soccer.....
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Dinny Breen on September 20, 2017, 12:00:01 PM
Christ only Dublin Cork and Galway have more registered players than Kildare, some under achievers considering those three are top level dual counties.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: AZOffaly on September 20, 2017, 12:00:31 PM
That should be fairly easy to ascertain with the latest census data.

But again, on a per player basis, I'd just like to see other counties at least get a fair shake of the GAA's own money. I mean sponsorship and the like is a different kettle of fish, and I see arguments on both sides of pooling sponsorship monies, but I don't begrudge Dublin their sponsorship deals either. That's all part of the glamour of being the Dubs.

The GAA, however, are supposed to safeguard the competitions and encourage participation in our games. By such a large disparity in PP funding, they are not doing that.

Comments earlier this year from senior GAA and ex-GAA figures make me think this is being looked at, and this win by the Dubs again won't lessen the focus. These are some of the quotes I'm talking about..

GAA Director of Finance - Tom Ryan

“It’s a tricky one and it’s one we’ve tried to give a fair bit of thought to over the course of the year”, revealed Tom Ryan, the GAA’s Director of Finance, at the release of their annual report.
“The short answer is no, it (The disparity in funding) won’t persist over the course of the next few years. There’s not going to be a revolutionary change to it. We’ll change it in evolutionary terms rather than in one fell swoop.
“Under Dublin, the first thing is to say that the money is being well spent. I’d be far more uncomfortable sitting here if that level of investment wasn’t being put to good use and I do understand the dynamic when people look at on field results, then look at the amount of funding.
“I’m not sure the degree to which there’s a 100% co-relation but it would be naive to assume that there’s not some degree of co-relation.
“What we’ll try to do, we’ll try to grow the other counties. I think you’ll see we have tried to do that. We have achieved that to a certain degree and we’ll try and do that next year.
“We’ve 9 or 10 specific things that our Finance Committee have looked at and want to implement for this year to do that.
“To be honest in terms of bridging the gap, it won’t be possible to do that without some degree of diminution in Dublin’s funding and there will be a modest kind of re calibration of that in 2017.”


And then Sean Kelly on Newstalk said
On the question of games development money going to Dublin, he feels that "sustainability should now been assured and really there needs to be more either extra money coming in which should be available to the other counties which might allow you to continue the funding in Dublin but definitely vis a vis the other counties there is need to invest more in the counties outside of Dublin than there was 10 years ago. It's definitely something we have to look at."
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: AZOffaly on September 20, 2017, 12:03:40 PM
Of course another aspect to all this is that Dublin are using the money brilliantly. There is absolutely no guarantee that other counties would do the same. There are some county board people I've dealt with, and I wouldn't trust them not to blow a massive fund on a short term mercenary manager if they got 500k a year in funding.  Money wins nothing, but having money and using it right, gives you a much better chance of than not having it.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Dinny Breen on September 20, 2017, 12:07:15 PM
Of course another aspect to all this is that Dublin are using the money brilliantly. There is absolutely no guarantee that other counties would do the same. There are some county board people I've dealt with, and I wouldn't trust them not to blow a massive fund on a short term mercenary manager if they got 500k a year in funding.  Money wins nothing, but having money and using it right, gives you a much better chance of than not having it.

If you look at on field results well then yes but what about participation rates, new clubs etc Looking at the figures above I wouldn't be so sure.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Syferus on September 20, 2017, 12:13:24 PM
I don’t see any argument for not pooling sponsorship money too, Offaly. Dublin being so big would nesscarily get the biggest share anyways, but if the goal is to have an amateur organisation having one be ran as if it’s an Premier League club with massive sponsors like AIG while one of their D1 opponents have their own supporters club on their jersies is another slap in the face of the sport.

The goal has to be to have as many counties as competitive as possible to create a vibrant sport for both players and supporters. The GAA should be socialism at its best, yet it’s being humiliated by the most base capitalist sports in the world like professional American football when it comes to enforcing parity.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: TheGreatest on September 20, 2017, 12:16:59 PM
Of course another aspect to all this is that Dublin are using the money brilliantly. There is absolutely no guarantee that other counties would do the same. There are some county board people I've dealt with, and I wouldn't trust them not to blow a massive fund on a short term mercenary manager if they got 500k a year in funding.  Money wins nothing, but having money and using it right, gives you a much better chance of than not having it.

If you look at on field results well then yes but what about participation rates, new clubs etc Looking at the figures above I wouldn't be so sure.

Not showing at all age levels, why.

Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Bord na Mona man on September 20, 2017, 12:19:34 PM
The registered figures look right. In large parts of Dublin, hurling and football are very much minority sports.
Take Tallaght for example, I've seen figures was as low as 1% in terms of participation rates. Soccer is the number 1 sport by a long way.

I think people from outside Dublin see Hill 16 packed with folks with joxer accents and get the impression there is a large working class base that Dublin pull from.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Orchard park on September 20, 2017, 12:20:00 PM
doesnt show til u21 in football

minor hurling is  at a higher level of consistency........

no new clubs being developed in dublin should be a major cause of concern to croke park.......
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Halfquarter on September 20, 2017, 12:22:50 PM
show me the facts Syferis about the proportion playing adult football now vs 40 years ago as you seem to know ... I am suggesting its proportionate to then but dont have the facts to prove it and neither was i ramming it down anyone's throat it was the caseo therwise dont go around accusing people who are engaging in constructive debate of taking out of their arses.

also seeing you know so much about dublin how much per player is the GAA centrally giving to Dublin as opposed to the per player contribution in other counties.......fair question if you can deal in hard facts as opposed to cheap lazy Ewan McKenna style unsubstantiated bollixoligy


and i stated others are using Dublin as having too much money as a cheap excuse for their own failings. Trump at his best couldn;t twist that one around like you have.........

anyways do you not have Junior cert grinds


I'm surprised at your comments on Ewan McKenna ,have you read his article in The Sunday Post ?
I found the article to be well researched and backed up by facts and figures.

One of his main points is that the Gaa ( who should treat all counties equally ) are screwing the funding by giving the lion's share of the money to the strongest county .

He accepts that not much can be done about Dublin having the biggest sponsers , one million from AIG and 12 other secondary sponsors.
On top of this was the tax payers  money that Bertie pumped in to Dublin .Why not the same treatment for Dublin or Meath ??
This is only the tip of the iceberg when addressing the advantages that Dublin enjoy, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: TheGreatest on September 20, 2017, 12:25:53 PM
show me the facts Syferis about the proportion playing adult football now vs 40 years ago as you seem to know ... I am suggesting its proportionate to then but dont have the facts to prove it and neither was i ramming it down anyone's throat it was the caseo therwise dont go around accusing people who are engaging in constructive debate of taking out of their arses.

also seeing you know so much about dublin how much per player is the GAA centrally giving to Dublin as opposed to the per player contribution in other counties.......fair question if you can deal in hard facts as opposed to cheap lazy Ewan McKenna style unsubstantiated bollixoligy


and i stated others are using Dublin as having too much money as a cheap excuse for their own failings. Trump at his best couldn;t twist that one around like you have.........

anyways do you not have Junior cert grinds


I'm surprised at your comments on Ewan McKenna ,have you read his article in The Sunday Post ?
I found the article to be well researched and backed up by facts and figures.

One of his main points is that the Gaa ( who should treat all counties equally ) are screwing the funding by giving the lion's share of the money to the strongest county .

He accepts that not much can be done about Dublin having the biggest sponsers , one million from AIG and 12 other secondary sponsors.
On top of this was the tax payers  money that Bertie pumped in to Dublin .Why not the same treatment for Dublin or Meath ??
This is only the tip of the iceberg when addressing the advantages that Dublin enjoy, in my opinion.

Writes the same article twice a year, copy and paste job. His figures have been proven to be wrong. Ironically makes money from writing on Dublin while giving out about Dublin, he's agenda driven and just following the narrative, calls himself a sports writer but hates sports, poor journalist, twitter magnet.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Esmarelda on September 20, 2017, 12:27:38 PM
show me the facts Syferis about the proportion playing adult football now vs 40 years ago as you seem to know ... I am suggesting its proportionate to then but dont have the facts to prove it and neither was i ramming it down anyone's throat it was the caseo therwise dont go around accusing people who are engaging in constructive debate of taking out of their arses.

also seeing you know so much about dublin how much per player is the GAA centrally giving to Dublin as opposed to the per player contribution in other counties.......fair question if you can deal in hard facts as opposed to cheap lazy Ewan McKenna style unsubstantiated bollixoligy


and i stated others are using Dublin as having too much money as a cheap excuse for their own failings. Trump at his best couldn;t twist that one around like you have.........

anyways do you not have Junior cert grinds


I'm surprised at your comments on Ewan McKenna ,have you read his article in The Sunday Post ?
I found the article to be well researched and backed up by facts and figures.

One of his main points is that the Gaa ( who should treat all counties equally ) are screwing the funding by giving the lion's share of the money to the strongest county .

He accepts that not much can be done about Dublin having the biggest sponsers , one million from AIG and 12 other secondary sponsors.
On top of this was the tax payers  money that Bertie pumped in to Dublin .Why not the same treatment for Dublin or Meath ??
This is only the tip of the iceberg when addressing the advantages that Dublin enjoy, in my opinion.

Writes the same article twice a year, copy and paste job. His figures have been proven to be wrong. Ironically makes money from writing on Dublin while giving out about Dublin, he's agenda driven and just following the narrative, calls himself a sports writer but hates sports, poor journalist, twitter magnet.
Could you point me in the direction of this proof?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: clonadmad on September 20, 2017, 12:37:45 PM
I don’t see any argument for not pooling sponsorship money too, Offaly. Dublin being so big would nesscarily get the biggest share anyways, but if the goal is to have an amateur organisation having one be ran as if it’s an Premier League club with massive sponsors like AIG while one of their D1 opponents have their own supporters club on their jersies is another slap in the face of the sport.

The goal has to be to have as many counties as competitive as possible to create a vibrant sport for both players and supporters. The GAA should be socialism at its best, yet it’s being humiliated by the most base capitalist sports in the world like professional American football when it comes to enforcing parity.

Actually American Football takes the socialist approach in terms of the draft of young players,salaries and funding,it might be a good start point to examine their model with reference to the our sports

http://www.newstatesman.com/lifestyle/2015/04/socialist-principles-heart-american-football
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: AZOffaly on September 20, 2017, 12:41:43 PM
I don’t see any argument for not pooling sponsorship money too, Offaly. Dublin being so big would nesscarily get the biggest share anyways, but if the goal is to have an amateur organisation having one be ran as if it’s an Premier League club with massive sponsors like AIG while one of their D1 opponents have their own supporters club on their jersies is another slap in the face of the sport.

The goal has to be to have as many counties as competitive as possible to create a vibrant sport for both players and supporters. The GAA should be socialism at its best, yet it’s being humiliated by the most base capitalist sports in the world like professional American football when it comes to enforcing parity.


Actually American Football takes the socialist approach in terms of the draft of young players,salaries and funding,it might be a good start point to examine their model with reference to the our sports

http://www.newstatesman.com/lifestyle/2015/04/socialist-principles-heart-american-football


I think that's his point. The NFL Owners are all about the money, but they realise that to maximise the money, you maximise the competition, so they level the playing field.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Syferus on September 20, 2017, 12:43:06 PM
I don’t see any argument for not pooling sponsorship money too, Offaly. Dublin being so big would nesscarily get the biggest share anyways, but if the goal is to have an amateur organisation having one be ran as if it’s an Premier League club with massive sponsors like AIG while one of their D1 opponents have their own supporters club on their jersies is another slap in the face of the sport.

The goal has to be to have as many counties as competitive as possible to create a vibrant sport for both players and supporters. The GAA should be socialism at its best, yet it’s being humiliated by the most base capitalist sports in the world like professional American football when it comes to enforcing parity.

Actually American Football takes the socialist approach in terms of the draft of young players,salaries and funding,it might be a good start point to examine their model with reference to the our sports

http://www.newstatesman.com/lifestyle/2015/04/socialist-principles-heart-american-football

That was my point. The sport is totally driven by generating profit (like HQ is here, apparently) but it goes about it in a sustainable way, by enforcing as much parity as humanly possible. Why the GAA doesn't take a similar approach when it would mean more nationwide interest and a better product on the field, only they know. Likely the usual affliction of short-termism that sporting bodies in Ireland suffer from.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Orchard park on September 20, 2017, 12:46:04 PM
one other big point in the funding debate, is that John Costello prepared the blue prints, put the business case together etc to show how the money was to be spent, it  wasnt a case of Dublin needs a million for coaching development, he had the stats to back the demand
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: AZOffaly on September 20, 2017, 12:48:10 PM
one other big point in the funding debate, is that John Costello prepared the blue prints, put the business case together etc to show how the money was to be spent, it  wasnt a case of Dublin needs a million for coaching development, he had the stats to back the demand

Absolutely. They put together a great plan, and have delivered on it, in terms of high quality coaching outputs. I certainly wouldn't argue that point.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Orchard park on September 20, 2017, 12:52:22 PM
and from speaking to someone at the itme in croker, no other county out together anything within an asses roar of that standard of application or planning
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Syferus on September 20, 2017, 12:55:18 PM
one other big point in the funding debate, is that John Costello prepared the blue prints, put the business case together etc to show how the money was to be spent, it  wasnt a case of Dublin needs a million for coaching development, he had the stats to back the demand

Absolutely. They put together a great plan, and have delivered on it, in terms of high quality coaching outputs. I certainly wouldn't argue that point.

Y'see that's all well and good, but it's the money being spent at senior IC that really warps things. Dublin are good at underage, but not the unbeatable force they are at senior. So their advantages only tend to amplify as they move up the grades. On top of reigning in Dublin's money you need to have proper limits on backroom teams, IC preparation spending and even training (beyond the piss-weak 'don't train in the off-season' that the managers circumvent anyways), in my opinion. Dublin have created an unsustainable arms race at senior with counties like Mayo, Kerry and Kildare in the past spending insane amounts of money over and under the table to try to match their opponents' professional set-up.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: AZOffaly on September 20, 2017, 12:55:39 PM
and from speaking to someone at the itme in croker, no other county out together anything within an asses roar of that standard of application or planning

I'd believe it. there's no doubt the whole country was caught on the hop at the time.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: TheOptimist on September 20, 2017, 01:10:12 PM
Its a catch 22. Dublin's success brings more sponsors to the table as they have such a big support base. If something was done to make other counties more competitive and Dublin were less successful the sponsorship income would diminish also.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Rossfan on September 20, 2017, 01:31:09 PM
one other big point in the funding debate, is that John Costello prepared the blue prints, put the business case together etc to show how the money was to be spent,
Most Counties can't afford to hire chaps with his expertise.
Time for the Central GAA to pay full time Secretary/Administrator for all the small Counties perhaps. Such people would help Co Boards to develop their own blueprints and also oversee the use of fairly allocated €€€€s to ensure they weren't blown on Mercenary Senior IC managers etc.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Smokin Joe on September 20, 2017, 02:18:16 PM
and from speaking to someone at the itme in croker, no other county out together anything within an asses roar of that standard of application or planning

I'd believe it. there's no doubt the whole country was caught on the hop at the time.

Was it ever published or put in the public domain?

I coach U10 football for a rural Armagh club and our local primary school gets about just 6 hours per year GAA coaching. 
I can absolutely see how the employment of half a dozen full time coaches who either go round the schools or visit the clubs would benefit the skills of younger players.  Having the maximum number of kids playing and improving their skills is so important in feeding how they our team will field at adult level in 10 years time.  This then also will have a knock on impact at county level.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Orchard park on September 20, 2017, 03:12:15 PM
one other big point in the funding debate, is that John Costello prepared the blue prints, put the business case together etc to show how the money was to be spent, it  wasnt a case of Dublin needs a million for coaching development, he had the stats to back the demand

Absolutely. They put together a great plan, and have delivered on it, in terms of high quality coaching outputs. I certainly wouldn't argue that point.

Y'see that's all well and good, but it's the money being spent at senior IC that really warps things. Dublin are good at underage, but not the unbeatable force they are at senior. So their advantages only tend to amplify as they move up the grades. On top of reigning in Dublin's money you need to have proper limits on backroom teams, IC preparation spending and even training (beyond the piss-weak 'don't train in the off-season' that the managers circumvent anyways), in my opinion. Dublin have created an unsustainable arms race at senior with counties like Mayo, Kerry and Kildare in the past spending insane amounts of money over and under the table to try to match their opponents' professional set-up.

how much are Dublin spending as opposed to other counties ??? I tell you Syf your beloved Roscommon are spending more on the manager coach and selectors than Dublin are with we the taxpayer basically underwriting their main benefactor for many years and some other lad from San Franciso pumping in a fortune also
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Syferus on September 20, 2017, 03:22:14 PM
one other big point in the funding debate, is that John Costello prepared the blue prints, put the business case together etc to show how the money was to be spent, it  wasnt a case of Dublin needs a million for coaching development, he had the stats to back the demand

Absolutely. They put together a great plan, and have delivered on it, in terms of high quality coaching outputs. I certainly wouldn't argue that point.

Y'see that's all well and good, but it's the money being spent at senior IC that really warps things. Dublin are good at underage, but not the unbeatable force they are at senior. So their advantages only tend to amplify as they move up the grades. On top of reigning in Dublin's money you need to have proper limits on backroom teams, IC preparation spending and even training (beyond the piss-weak 'don't train in the off-season' that the managers circumvent anyways), in my opinion. Dublin have created an unsustainable arms race at senior with counties like Mayo, Kerry and Kildare in the past spending insane amounts of money over and under the table to try to match their opponents' professional set-up.

how much are Dublin spending as opposed to other counties ??? I tell you Syf your beloved Roscommon are spending more on the manager coach and selectors than Dublin are with we the taxpayer basically underwriting their main benefactor for many years and some other lad from San Franciso pumping in a fortune also

Ah yeah, Roscommon is flush with cash and everything you said is true and not half-invented whataboutry - http://www.roscommonpeople.ie/sport/50-sport/money-owed-a-major-problem-gaa-treasurer

You can try to distract from the money Dublin is using to warp IC competition into nothing more than a race for second place but no one here will be failing for that nonsense.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Orchard park on September 20, 2017, 03:27:11 PM
is a Nama survivor and a high profile yank not bankrolling the management in Roscommon Syferus ???
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Syferus on September 20, 2017, 03:33:50 PM
is a Nama survivor and a high profile yank not bankrolling the management in Roscommon Syferus ???

Click the fûcking link. Keep on topic, I know it seems to be a sore point for you.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: magpie seanie on September 20, 2017, 03:34:00 PM
I believe (open to correction) that if a player is paid for endorsing something the money goes into a central pool to be divided out among the other panellists. Is this true? I seems to remember this.

That being the case the principle is already there. Would AIG be paying Dublin such big sponsorship if they had no one to play against? Same way as the star player wouldn't be a star if he had no team mates.

If this change was made I'd say expenditure should be monitored centrally so the money is not blown. If a cogent, workable, costed plan is not submitted the money is not released.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: shark on September 20, 2017, 03:47:19 PM
I believe (open to correction) that if a player is paid for endorsing something the money goes into a central pool to be divided out among the other panellists. Is this true? I seems to remember this.

That being the case the principle is already there. Would AIG be paying Dublin such big sponsorship if they had no one to play against? Same way as the star player wouldn't be a star if he had no team mates.

If this change was made I'd say expenditure should be monitored centrally so the money is not blown. If a cogent, workable, costed plan is not submitted the money is not released.

That's the way on the Dublin panel alright. It's not 100% of what they get paid, but it's more than 50%. Think the money goes towards their panel fund. Good team building initiative.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Orchard park on September 20, 2017, 03:52:36 PM
is a Nama survivor and a high profile yank not bankrolling the management in Roscommon Syferus ???

Click the fûcking link. Keep on topic, I know it seems to be a sore point for you.

no sore point , you seem to be the resident Rossie expert here even if your views dont match those Rossies I know.... i'm asking the question who pays McStay and Maughan, David Joyce etc or will it appear in the 2017 roscommon accounts. its very much on topic you claim financial impropriety in Dublin and I am arguing the Dublin mgmt team earn less than roscommon and roscommon arent getting much in return unless you really value an out dated provincial title
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: TheGreatest on September 20, 2017, 03:56:44 PM
one other big point in the funding debate, is that John Costello prepared the blue prints, put the business case together etc to show how the money was to be spent, it  wasnt a case of Dublin needs a million for coaching development, he had the stats to back the demand

Absolutely. They put together a great plan, and have delivered on it, in terms of high quality coaching outputs. I certainly wouldn't argue that point.

Y'see that's all well and good, but it's the money being spent at senior IC that really warps things. Dublin are good at underage, but not the unbeatable force they are at senior. So their advantages only tend to amplify as they move up the grades. On top of reigning in Dublin's money you need to have proper limits on backroom teams, IC preparation spending and even training (beyond the piss-weak 'don't train in the off-season' that the managers circumvent anyways), in my opinion. Dublin have created an unsustainable arms race at senior with counties like Mayo, Kerry and Kildare in the past spending insane amounts of money over and under the table to try to match their opponents' professional set-up.

how much are Dublin spending as opposed to other counties ??? I tell you Syf your beloved Roscommon are spending more on the manager coach and selectors than Dublin are with we the taxpayer basically underwriting their main benefactor for many years and some other lad from San Franciso pumping in a fortune also

Ah yeah, Roscommon is flush with cash and everything you said is true and not half-invented whataboutry - http://www.roscommonpeople.ie/sport/50-sport/money-owed-a-major-problem-gaa-treasurer

You can try to distract from the money Dublin is using to warp IC competition into nothing more than a race for second place but no one here will be failing for that nonsense.

David O’Connor of Club Rossie made a very strong defence of the use of the bus saying that it was a very important promotional tool for Roscommon GAA and that it’s worth and benefit far outweighed any negatives.

Promotional tool, not beneficial to teams no.


Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Orchard park on September 20, 2017, 03:58:39 PM
i think that bus is a great idea if its fully sponsored as its claimed to be. Volunteer drivers panel an all that
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Declan on September 20, 2017, 04:06:02 PM

Talk of splitting Dublin shows a defeatist attitude
Philip Jordan

Updated / Wednesday, 20 Sep 2017 15:34

I want to address the suggestion of breaking Dublin up into more than one team for senior inter-county football by looking at their results over the past two seasons.

In 2016 and 2017, between League and Championship, they had 12 games that were decided by three points or less.

They drew four of them, lost one one - this year’s League final to Kerry at Croke Park - and won the rest.

Of the four they drew, they came from behind against Kerry and Tyrone in the League to get a point and only Donegal and Mayo were able to catch them coming from behind with a late equaliser.

Mayo are a brilliant team, even close to being a great team, and in any other era they would have won an All-Ireland by now, and Dublin have only beaten them by a point in their two All-Ireland final wins over them plus last year’s draw.


I would love to see more money invested in Belfast, which is a big city with a young population, to help drag Antrim up

The fact of the matter is that this Dubs team have an incredible ability not to lose games and, more importantly, win the big ones when the stakes are highest and margins are at their finest.

There’s no amount of coaching at youth level, investment or anything else that can train a team to do that.

This is a mentally tough group of players that know how to close it out and that sort of resolve is built up over time.

I predicted the past two years that Dublin wouldn’t have the hunger to come back and win another All-Ireland and they did it both times. Doing three in-a-row, something that happens so rarely in Gaelic football, in this modern era, where the demands on players are greater than ever, is truly remarkable.

Again, there’s no amount of money that can buy that desire. Dublin also have a brilliant manager in Jim Gavin who has been able to adapt his game plan and overhaul his team with new players while keeping established names happy on the bench.

There are so many other reasons too, one of them that the Dubs had such an easy passage to the All-Ireland final this year that they only had to peak for one game in September.

If there was more depth and stronger opposition, maybe they wouldn’t be three in-a-row champions because it seems to be a case of the top two a long way ahead of everyone else.

In history before we’ve had dominant teams, Kerry in the seventies and eighties, Galway in the sixties and others further back and it’s a cause for concern at the time, but they always get beaten eventually.

There’s no doubt in my mind that this Dublin team are the greatest I’ve ever seen playing Gaelic football and it would be no surprise to see them win again next and maybe even do a five in-a-row in 2019.

But splitting the county up isn’t the right thing to do. Sure, Dublin have a bigger population than everyone else, but they can only have 15 players on the field at any given team, the same as their opponents.

To say that they have to be split up is a defeatist attitude: ‘we can’t reach that standard so break them up’. As a player I certainly wouldn’t have had any interest in beating North Dublin or South Dublin - I wanted to beat the best.

I would agree though that the GAA’s funding has to be divided up differently. Dublin has gotten a lot of money in recent years and it’s to their credit that they have invested it wisely and reaped the rewards - there’s no guarantee that another county would have made such good use of similar funding.

For example, from an Ulster football point of view I would love to see more money invested in Belfast, which is a big city with a young population. Soccer and rugby are the most popular sports there and with greater investment the GAA could harness that youth and drag Antrim up a long way.

The Leinster Championship also has to be made more competitive. Dublin have dominated it since 2005, only missing out once in 2010, and just moving them out of Croke Park more often would have a positive effect on this.

Carlow were competitive against the Dubs this summer in Laois and had that been at Croke Park the margin of defeat could easily have been double.

The problem for every other Leinster county is that they are beaten before they go out, which is understandable, and players have to see hope in order to develop. It’s no use to them if they see no way of beating Dublin and straight away start wondering can they get a good draw in the qualifiers.

With equal funding, every county should be able to produce 25 senior footballers of a similarly good standard to be competitive, even though it requires an awful lot of work from grassroots up to get right.

Dublin have invested their money well and now the time has come to invest in other counties.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Rossfan on September 20, 2017, 04:10:27 PM
Grand so - give Leitrim, Longford and Fermanagh €1m each and they'll bate all before them in a few tears.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: 6th sam on September 20, 2017, 04:16:28 PM
i think that bus is a great idea if its fully sponsored as its claimed to be. Volunteer drivers panel an all that
There is no doubt the bus has paid for itself , on promotional value alone ("there's no such thing as bad publicity"), there are also benefits in terms of player comfort, pride in quality, ?financial savings. It's an example of what any county can do in terms of doing things well , cost effectively. Rather than despise what Dublin, Kerry, Roscommon have done in seeking excellence, we should learn from it and try and disseminate models of best practice throughout the country.
Dublin are an example of how a strategy formulated and implemented by very able individual(s) can reap rewards. Many of their ideas are transferable throughout the land and beyond. We all say that the GAA has "created a monster" in Dublin's current status, which has negative connotations . Let's turn that on his head and say we have "created a beast" , in a positive sense, and the success of Dublin can be a catalyst and/or template for overall GAA success.
Notwithstanding that , the GAA needs to remove the inequalities in the current system around provincial bias, distribution of resources, and lack of financial capping , for example.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: magpie seanie on September 20, 2017, 04:17:49 PM
Good common sense article there from Jordan. Gavin is a super manager in the right job. I think he might only be average in a different county but in terms of keeping a winning team fresh and hungry he's a genius.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Captain Obvious on September 20, 2017, 04:23:24 PM

There’s no doubt in my mind that this Dublin team are the greatest I’ve ever seen playing Gaelic football and it would be no surprise to see them win again next and maybe even do a five in-a-row in 2019.


They may well win five in-a-row in 2019 however to truly judge greatness you normally look at the strength of the contenders.  A team of the quality of Philip Jordans Tyrone of 2003,05 would beat this Dublin team in All Ireland final IMO.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Falcao on September 20, 2017, 04:36:53 PM
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There are 2 major issues I can see with the development money received per registered player figures, which render them completely inaccurate.

1. The figures only cover development funding paid from the Central Council directly to the counties. Dublin receive most of their dev funds this way whereas the other counties receive the bulk of their games dev funding from their provincial councils. For example in 2015, Connacht received 796k, Munster almost 1.2m, Leinster 1.7m and Ulster 1.27m.

According to the figures on the image, this 5 million distributed by provincial councils is assumed to have disappeared down a black hole. Due to this 5 million not being accounted for, every figure shown on the map is incorrect, and that is a fact.

How a professional journalist can repeatedly reference these figures, which he knows do not cover all of the money distributed is beyond me, although in this case I think the agenda of the journalist is pretty clear.

2. It is illogical to divide the funding received by the no. of Registered GAA players in the county. The funding is not just used to coach already registered players.  For example it funds Cul Camps which are held for 6-13 yr old's and coaching in primary schools. I think it is safe to assume that a lot of these kids are not registered GAA players and some schools that coaches are sent to would in fact have very little registered GAA players.

The only reason I can see for this calculation is to push the numbers up for Dublin. If funding was divided by population or number of juveniles (registered and unregistered) that benefited from the funding then Dublin's amount per head would be reduced significantly.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: manfromdelmonte on September 20, 2017, 04:38:38 PM
Seriously low number of registered players in Dublin is it not?
some clubs in Dublin only field one adult team
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: TheGreatest on September 20, 2017, 04:39:13 PM

There’s no doubt in my mind that this Dublin team are the greatest I’ve ever seen playing Gaelic football and it would be no surprise to see them win again next and maybe even do a five in-a-row in 2019.


They may well win five in-a-row in 2019 however to truly judge greatness you normally look at the strength of the contenders.  A team of the quality of Philip Jordans Tyrone of 2003,05 would beat this Dublin team in All Ireland final IMO.

An opinion and we will never know. My opinion is they wouldn't.

Also an opinion, Would Mayo have 3 all Irelands this decade if the Dubs were in noughties mode or would Mayo be as good as they are without meeting this Dublin team to get to that level.

Just remember in 12 games Mayo have not beaten the Dubs since 2012. Once.

Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: From the Bunker on September 20, 2017, 10:02:33 PM
Worth listening to

http://www.offtheball.com/podcasts/Off_The_Ball/GAA_on_Off_The_Ball/57592/Financial_imbalances_in_the_GAA (http://www.offtheball.com/podcasts/Off_The_Ball/GAA_on_Off_The_Ball/57592/Financial_imbalances_in_the_GAA)
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Halfquarter on September 20, 2017, 10:25:10 PM
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There are 2 major issues I can see with the development money received per registered player figures, which render them completely inaccurate.

1. The figures only cover development funding paid from the Central Council directly to the counties. Dublin receive most of their dev funds this way whereas the other counties receive the bulk of their games dev funding from their provincial councils. For example in 2015, Connacht received 796k, Munster almost 1.2m, Leinster 1.7m and Ulster 1.27m.

According to the figures on the image, this 5 million distributed by provincial councils is assumed to have disappeared down a black hole. Due to this 5 million not being accounted for, every figure shown on the map is incorrect, and that is a fact.

How a professional journalist can repeatedly reference these figures, which he knows do not cover all of the money distributed is beyond me, although in this case I think the agenda of the journalist is pretty clear.

2. It is illogical to divide the funding received by the no. of Registered GAA players in the county. The funding is not just used to coach already registered players.  For example it funds Cul Camps which are held for 6-13 yr old's and coaching in primary schools. I think it is safe to assume that a lot of these kids are not registered GAA players and some schools that coaches are sent to would in fact have very little registered GAA players.

The only reason I can see for this calculation is to push the numbers up for Dublin. If funding was divided by population or number of juveniles (registered and unregistered) that benefited from the funding then Dublin's amount per head would be reduced significantly.

Dublin also receive development funds from the provincial council.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: trileacman on September 20, 2017, 11:27:41 PM
Worth listening to

http://www.offtheball.com/podcasts/Off_The_Ball/GAA_on_Off_The_Ball/57592/Financial_imbalances_in_the_GAA (http://www.offtheball.com/podcasts/Off_The_Ball/GAA_on_Off_The_Ball/57592/Financial_imbalances_in_the_GAA)

Sean kelly's opinion is a f**king disgrace. Typical gaa big wig attitude, "smaller counties are the problem, if only we could marginalise and exclude them from the championship proper it would be great."
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: magpie seanie on September 20, 2017, 11:28:27 PM
Worth listening to

http://www.offtheball.com/podcasts/Off_The_Ball/GAA_on_Off_The_Ball/57592/Financial_imbalances_in_the_GAA (http://www.offtheball.com/podcasts/Off_The_Ball/GAA_on_Off_The_Ball/57592/Financial_imbalances_in_the_GAA)

Sean kelly's opinion is a f**king disgrace. Typical gaa big wig attitude, "smaller counties are the problem, if only we could marginalise and exclude them from the championship proper it would be great."


He was always a muppet anyway.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: trileacman on September 20, 2017, 11:35:10 PM
Worth listening to
http://www.offtheball.com/podcasts/Off_The_Ball/GAA_on_Off_The_Ball/57592/Financial_imbalances_in_the_GAA (http://www.offtheball.com/podcasts/Off_The_Ball/GAA_on_Off_The_Ball/57592/Financial_imbalances_in_the_GAA)
Sean kelly's opinion is a f**king disgrace. Typical gaa big wig attitude, "smaller counties are the problem, if only we could marginalise and exclude them from the championship proper it would be great."

He was always a muppet anyway.

I thought he was reasonably sound but he's one w**ker there. f**k the rest, save the cash cow.

Real "pull the ladder up, sod the rest" stuff.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: TheGreatest on September 21, 2017, 08:26:42 AM
Ewan McKenna getting a national platform like that is really poor, its been proven his figures are correct, even corrected on Twitter last night when he said their was 100 professional coaches in Dublin, there is no where near that number.

And Dublin will never be split up. Fans would walk away, GAA lose a cash cow.

What might happen is you could have a Fingal team entering division 4, but they would finish bottom.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Owenmoresider on September 21, 2017, 08:53:00 AM
Ewan McKenna getting a national platform like that is really poor, its been proven his figures are correct, even corrected on Twitter last night when he said their was 100 professional coaches in Dublin, there is no where near that number.

And Dublin will never be split up. Fans would walk away, GAA lose a cash cow.

What might happen is you could have a Fingal team entering division 4, but they would finish bottom.
Fingal in terms of the council area would include Brigid's, Castleknock, Peregrine's, Skerries, St Sylvester's, Fingallians, Fingal Ravens, Naomh Mearnog and St Maur's from the senior football ranks, I'd imagine you'd get a team out of that capable of operating a little higher than D4.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: TheGreatest on September 21, 2017, 08:55:32 AM
Ewan McKenna getting a national platform like that is really poor, its been proven his figures are correct, even corrected on Twitter last night when he said their was 100 professional coaches in Dublin, there is no where near that number.

And Dublin will never be split up. Fans would walk away, GAA lose a cash cow.

What might happen is you could have a Fingal team entering division 4, but they would finish bottom.
Fingal in terms of the council area would include Brigid's, Castleknock, Peregrine's, Skerries, St Sylvester's, Fingallians, Fingal Ravens, Naomh Mearnog and St Maur's from the senior football ranks, I'd imagine you'd get a team out of that capable of operating a little higher than D4.

I don't think Brigid's and Castleknock fall into the Fingal territories? But if so then you would have uproar to who gets Kilkenny and Paddy Andrews etc.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Owenmoresider on September 21, 2017, 09:19:28 AM
Ewan McKenna getting a national platform like that is really poor, its been proven his figures are correct, even corrected on Twitter last night when he said their was 100 professional coaches in Dublin, there is no where near that number.

And Dublin will never be split up. Fans would walk away, GAA lose a cash cow.

What might happen is you could have a Fingal team entering division 4, but they would finish bottom.
Fingal in terms of the council area would include Brigid's, Castleknock, Peregrine's, Skerries, St Sylvester's, Fingallians, Fingal Ravens, Naomh Mearnog and St Maur's from the senior football ranks, I'd imagine you'd get a team out of that capable of operating a little higher than D4.

I don't think Brigid's and Castleknock fall into the Fingal territories? But if so then you would have uproar to who gets Kilkenny and Paddy Andrews etc.
Brigid's is out along the Navan Road towards the M50 and the city council ends at the Ashtown roundabout, Castleknock and Blanchardstown are in Fingal CC.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Falcao on September 21, 2017, 09:19:42 AM
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There are 2 major issues I can see with the development money received per registered player figures, which render them completely inaccurate.

1. The figures only cover development funding paid from the Central Council directly to the counties. Dublin receive most of their dev funds this way whereas the other counties receive the bulk of their games dev funding from their provincial councils. For example in 2015, Connacht received 796k, Munster almost 1.2m, Leinster 1.7m and Ulster 1.27m.

According to the figures on the image, this 5 million distributed by provincial councils is assumed to have disappeared down a black hole. Due to this 5 million not being accounted for, every figure shown on the map is incorrect, and that is a fact.

How a professional journalist can repeatedly reference these figures, which he knows do not cover all of the money distributed is beyond me, although in this case I think the agenda of the journalist is pretty clear.

2. It is illogical to divide the funding received by the no. of Registered GAA players in the county. The funding is not just used to coach already registered players.  For example it funds Cul Camps which are held for 6-13 yr old's and coaching in primary schools. I think it is safe to assume that a lot of these kids are not registered GAA players and some schools that coaches are sent to would in fact have very little registered GAA players.

The only reason I can see for this calculation is to push the numbers up for Dublin. If funding was divided by population or number of juveniles (registered and unregistered) that benefited from the funding then Dublin's amount per head would be reduced significantly.

Dublin also receive development funds from the provincial council.

Yes but they get majority of it directly from central council, where as other counties get their majority from provincial council. So as the figures on the image only cover funds direct from central council what we are seeing is the comparison of a majority of Dublin's funding against a minority of the 31 other counties funding.

Then this is skewed further by dividing by registered players which doesn't really make sense.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: AZOffaly on September 21, 2017, 09:23:27 AM
Falcao, most kids are registered players. If you are on club grounds and partaking in club activities, you must be registered, so I bet most of them are registered. In the schools, yes, there may not be as many, but registered players is a fairly decent way of measuring the money I think.

In other counties, the percentage of registered players wouldn't be in the teens either, so there's a lot of kids in schools all around the country that aren't registered.

Your point re the provincial councils is well made, but there's a lot of doubt about where that provincial money is being spent. Maybe if they said this is the per player amount we are going to donate, and do it directly from central council, that would be fairer and more transparent.

By the soundings coming from the top table, they are beginning to realise this can't continue. No point having a cash cow if there's no other livestock to play with!
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Orchard park on September 21, 2017, 09:25:17 AM
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There are 2 major issues I can see with the development money received per registered player figures, which render them completely inaccurate.

1. The figures only cover development funding paid from the Central Council directly to the counties. Dublin receive most of their dev funds this way whereas the other counties receive the bulk of their games dev funding from their provincial councils. For example in 2015, Connacht received 796k, Munster almost 1.2m, Leinster 1.7m and Ulster 1.27m.

According to the figures on the image, this 5 million distributed by provincial councils is assumed to have disappeared down a black hole. Due to this 5 million not being accounted for, every figure shown on the map is incorrect, and that is a fact.

How a professional journalist can repeatedly reference these figures, which he knows do not cover all of the money distributed is beyond me, although in this case I think the agenda of the journalist is pretty clear.

2. It is illogical to divide the funding received by the no. of Registered GAA players in the county. The funding is not just used to coach already registered players.  For example it funds Cul Camps which are held for 6-13 yr old's and coaching in primary schools. I think it is safe to assume that a lot of these kids are not registered GAA players and some schools that coaches are sent to would in fact have very little registered GAA players.

The only reason I can see for this calculation is to push the numbers up for Dublin. If funding was divided by population or number of juveniles (registered and unregistered) that benefited from the funding then Dublin's amount per head would be reduced significantly.

Dublin also receive development funds from the provincial council.

is there a similar map to show provincial and central council funding. I had my doubts over accuracy of the map given Cork was so low but can anyone show somehting with total of provincial and central council funding and then a reasoned debate can be had
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: AZOffaly on September 21, 2017, 09:31:27 AM
Lads, I'm confused. Are ye saying Dublin is *not* disproportionately financed? Because if ye are, then ye are the first I've heard say that. Even GAA people at the top table will accept that. The rationale for it is what they lean on. "We have to boost Dublin because....". Not even the highest level of GAA would say Dublin is getting no more than anyone else. They don't even say that on a per player basis.


Most of the time the argument is that money doesn't make a difference, it's all down to the great work being done behind the scenes, or else it's just a fluke of having a brilliant crop all arrive together.

I genuinely haven't heard anyone in authority, or even on here, claim that the funding is equitable before.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: TheGreatest on September 21, 2017, 09:39:44 AM
People also forget that its not just for the registered players. Its promoting non traditional areas and schools.

The argument is cheap and Ewan McKenna is a cheap journalist. He actually compared Dublin to PSG which is an insult to the thousands of volunteers and club people in Dublin, he wouldn't be so brave if he had to argue his point to a room full of volunteers in a big club in Dublin. Off the Ball is also losing its appeal, the two Kildare friends got it off their chest now.....

If you think there should be now funding to promote our National game to children, then there is something wrong with you.

Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Orchard park on September 21, 2017, 09:47:07 AM
Lads, I'm confused. Are ye saying Dublin is *not* disproportionately financed? Because if ye are, then ye are the first I've heard say that. Even GAA people at the top table will accept that. The rationale for it is what they lean on. "We have to boost Dublin because....". Not even the highest level of GAA would say Dublin is getting no more than anyone else. They don't even say that on a per player basis.


Most of the time the argument is that money doesn't make a difference, it's all down to the great work being done behind the scenes, or else it's just a fluke of having a brilliant crop all arrive together.

I genuinely haven't heard anyone in authority, or even on here, claim that the funding is equitable before.


.
I am not suggesting that I am asking if anyone has the combined figures for external GAA money ie provincial and central council funds . I dont know the figures my self hence the request before being able to debate same
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: AZOffaly on September 21, 2017, 09:55:30 AM
People also forget that its not just for the registered players. Its promoting non traditional areas and schools.

The argument is cheap and Ewan McKenna is a cheap journalist. He actually compared Dublin to PSG which is an insult to the thousands of volunteers and club people in Dublin, he wouldn't be so brave if he had to argue his point to a room full of volunteers in a big club in Dublin. Off the Ball is also losing its appeal, the two Kildare friends got it off their chest now.....

If you think there should be now funding to promote our National game to children, then there is something wrong with you.

Nobody is saying that at all. I've already said the Dubs are spending their money well.

If you think a child in Tipperary should have LESS funding than a child in Coolock, then there's something wrong with you.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Falcao on September 21, 2017, 10:29:17 AM
I'm saying that the numbers in the image are incorrect and deceiving, I think we can both agree on that now?

I don't agree that per registered player is a fairly decent way of measuring the money. If a coach goes to a school in Dublin and spends an hour with a class of 30 pupils, going by participation rates you could be looking at 2-3 kids that are registered with their GAA club and over 25 that are not. Yes, it is the same in other counties, but to a lesser extent and with the higher number of schools in Dublin this makes the number of non registered kids receiving coaching in proportion to registered much higher. In the below graphic from 2015 you can see there are 98,906 registered GAA members between age 8 - 12 but there are 707,973 primary school pupils nationally.

I don't think the imbalance is anywhere near as major as it is being portrayed as being in most quarters. Looking at the numbers attending Cul Camps throughout the country from the below graphic, there is obviously decent levels of funding there in other counties as well. Even on a per registered player status, proportionately there are still much higher numbers attending Cul Camps in Tipperary, Cork, Galway etc than there are in Dublin.

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Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: AZOffaly on September 21, 2017, 10:43:59 AM
Sorry Falcao, I disagree fundamentally. And as I've said, even top level GAA figures agree that Dublin are getting far more money (whichever ratio you use) than other parts of the country. If it really was as fair and equitable as you seem to think, do you not think the leading GAA men would be out rubbishing these figures?

Anyway, we won't solve it here, but all I know is there is not enough money in coaching in the other counties, and that's my bug bear. And hearing people say other counties should get their houses in order is fairly annoying when you see exactly how stretched we are on the ground.

Dublin should be the model for other counties.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Orchard park on September 21, 2017, 10:56:21 AM
azoffaly,

you make good points, unlike  alot of contributors here who think penalising Dublin is the way forward........more money to others and copy the structures of Dublin is way forward.

there is much claptrap written about GPOs etc by the likes of Ewan Mckenna . I would venture every Dublin juvenile team is coached by a parent or club loyalist then very same as in Mayo, Rosocmmon, Offaly and anywhere else.
The biggest advantage that Dublin has is fresh batch every year of country born GAA men and women due to economic migration now residing in the capital, and they are the backbone of most juvenile sections in Dublin. The other cities benefit from this to a lesser degree but its something most counties dont have
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: trueblue1234 on September 21, 2017, 11:07:48 AM
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You kinda stole my thunder AZ. I was leading up to posting that!!
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on September 21, 2017, 11:35:20 AM
I would venture every Dublin juvenile team is coached by a parent or club loyalist then very same as in Mayo, Rosocmmon, Offaly and anywhere else.

Club teams? Yeah, you'd likely be right - at least I hope! It'd be more than a bit alarming to learn that in Co. Dublin, underage teams are regularly being coached by county board paid development officers!


But what about development officers into primary/secondary schools? Or what about the coaching for the coaches?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Orchard park on September 21, 2017, 11:48:51 AM
I would venture every Dublin juvenile team is coached by a parent or club loyalist then very same as in Mayo, Rosocmmon, Offaly and anywhere else.

Club teams? Yeah, you'd likely be right - at least I hope! It'd be more than a bit alarming to learn that in Co. Dublin, underage teams are regularly being coached by county board paid development officers!


But what about development officers into primary/secondary schools? Or what about the coaching for the coaches?

those were the implications made by some like mcKenna........
coaches are coached the very same as the rest of ireland , foundation, level one level 2,  who gives the courses or where is irrelevant
The 31 counties ex pats in Dublin have done more to promote the game than any GPO in my view
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: sambostar on September 21, 2017, 12:21:46 PM
Coaching the coaches has a lot of impact. And having a GPO within the club gives easy access to a better standard of coaching for the parents who take on coaching roles. GPO's can also come along to training sessions with the kids once-in-a-while to give a session where both the kids & coaches benefit.

That's not to mention the benefit of a GPO visiting the local primary school at least once a week to coach the kids - that doesn't happen in any other county.

Why doesn't the GAA start investing money in Belfast like they do in Dublin? There's a huge untapped playing base in Belfast. It's like Dublin in that many voluntary coaches have come from rural areas but they don't get anywhere near the same levels of paid support from GPO's etc. as volunteer coaches get in Dublin
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Orchard park on September 21, 2017, 12:29:50 PM
sambo,

belfast is the most obvious place where GAA need to invest big time ( money and structures) and as you say it gas a lot of the same rural background positives like Dublin.

The GPOs are great, the clubs pay half of the costs which the moaners all forget also and are are great set up for helping nervous parents, beginner coaches.  Their main work is in the schools which is what they introduced for initially to try and counteract the falling numbers of GAA friendly muinteoirs
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: magpie seanie on September 21, 2017, 12:38:19 PM
sambo,

belfast is the most obvious place where GAA need to invest big time ( money and structures) and as you say it gas a lot of the same rural background positives like Dublin.

The GPOs are great, the clubs pay half of the costs which the moaners all forget also and are are great set up for helping nervous parents, beginner coaches.  Their main work is in the schools which is what they introduced for initially to try and counteract the falling numbers of GAA friendly muinteoirs


How many clubs have a GPO? Could you name a few? Do some clubs share one?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Rossfan on September 21, 2017, 12:41:53 PM
If the GAA want more big Counties being competitive with Dublin then money needs to go into Belfast/Antrim, Louth,Wicklow and dare we say Kildare and Meath.
Those 5 should be around the same standard as Mayowestros and Donegal/Tyrone based on population figures. In all probability they have higher percentages of under 25s.
Cork occasionally and Kerry usually will also compete for AIs.
As for the rest of us in the little Counties.......occasional appearances in Super 8s will be our lot with the odd Connacht or Ulster title thrown in.
Sadly.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: ashman on September 21, 2017, 12:43:00 PM
Coaching the coaches has a lot of impact. And having a GPO within the club gives easy access to a better standard of coaching for the parents who take on coaching roles. GPO's can also come along to training sessions with the kids once-in-a-while to give a session where both the kids & coaches benefit.

That's not to mention the benefit of a GPO visiting the local primary school at least once a week to coach the kids - that doesn't happen in any other county.

Why doesn't the GAA start investing money in Belfast like they do in Dublin? There's a huge untapped playing base in Belfast. It's like Dublin in that many voluntary coaches have come from rural areas but they don't get anywhere near the same levels of paid support from GPO's etc. as volunteer coaches get in Dublin

To answer your question .  Antrim GAA is not too big to fail .  The GAA don't need Antrim to fill Croker.  It is that simple .
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Orchard park on September 21, 2017, 12:51:37 PM
sambo,

belfast is the most obvious place where GAA need to invest big time ( money and structures) and as you say it gas a lot of the same rural background positives like Dublin.

The GPOs are great, the clubs pay half of the costs which the moaners all forget also and are are great set up for helping nervous parents, beginner coaches.  Their main work is in the schools which is what they introduced for initially to try and counteract the falling numbers of GAA friendly muinteoirs


How many clubs have a GPO? Could you name a few? Do some clubs share one?

I dont know the dublin scene closely anymore but i would guess at there being 50 clubs with GPOs and 10 without one and the remaining smaller clubs sharing one. Some clubs have their own locally funded coach in addition also like Ballyboden, Kilmacud and brigids
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Maroon Manc on September 21, 2017, 12:55:00 PM
sambo,

belfast is the most obvious place where GAA need to invest big time ( money and structures) and as you say it gas a lot of the same rural background positives like Dublin.

The GPOs are great, the clubs pay half of the costs which the moaners all forget also and are are great set up for helping nervous parents, beginner coaches.  Their main work is in the schools which is what they introduced for initially to try and counteract the falling numbers of GAA friendly muinteoirs

Imagine a club having the luxury of been able to contribute to half a GDO's salary. How many clubs in Dublin do this?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Orchard park on September 21, 2017, 12:58:58 PM
maroon,

its not a luxury its called fundraising locally. or higher membership rates....... i would think 50 clubs do so.




but the eternallly paranoid like Mckenna and his twitterers would have you believe that the 18k odd a year the club pays is actual loose change in all dublin clubs,

Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: AZOffaly on September 21, 2017, 01:00:51 PM
maroon,

its not a luxury its called fundraising locally. or higher membership rates....... i would think 50 clubs do so.




but the eternallly paranoid like Mckenna and his twitterers would have you believe that the 18k odd a year the club pays is actual loose change in all dublin clubs,

This comes back to the population question.  A lot easier to fundraise when you have massive population on your doorstep. Yet another reason why maybe Dublin don't actually need that 1.3 million per year if we are to believe ye guys :)
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Maroon Manc on September 21, 2017, 01:03:50 PM
maroon,

its not a luxury its called fundraising locally. or higher membership rates....... i would think 50 clubs do so.




but the eternallly paranoid like Mckenna and his twitterers would have you believe that the 18k odd a year the club pays is actual loose change in all dublin clubs,

This comes back to the population question.  A lot easier to fundraise when you have massive population on your doorstep. Yet another reason why maybe Dublin don't actually need that 1.3 million per year if we are to believe ye guys :)

There was me thinking the likes of Aughamore & Knockmore would have no problem paying half a GDO's salary.

Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Orchard park on September 21, 2017, 01:08:13 PM
it can be debated either way and lest there be any mistakes i'm not a dub or living there but have a genuine interest in GAA development debate.

there are more counter acttractions in Dublin than in rural ireland leading to a less of a % playing. Population on its own doesn't tell full picture in a city, a larger proportion are apathetic to GAA or are actively anti GAA.

I proposed the Dublin underage structure of one week football one week hurling with fixtres for u8 up to u12 weekly to the county where i live and was met with 20 excuses why it couldn't work and no delegate prepared to stand back and say why dont we imitate a successful blueprint. I was prepared to give 2 years of my life to implement it fully but its easier to feind excuses than find development in may clubs and counties.

Dublin need the 1.3 million but not at others expenses., Others need it but not at Dublins expense would be my mantra
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Orchard park on September 21, 2017, 01:09:10 PM
maroon,

its not a luxury its called fundraising locally. or higher membership rates....... i would think 50 clubs do so.




but the eternallly paranoid like Mckenna and his twitterers would have you believe that the 18k odd a year the club pays is actual loose change in all dublin clubs,

This comes back to the population question.  A lot easier to fundraise when you have massive population on your doorstep. Yet another reason why maybe Dublin don't actually need that 1.3 million per year if we are to believe ye guys :)

There was me thinking the likes of Aughamore & Knockmore would have no problem paying half a GDO's salary.

davitts are the 2nd highest  sellers / earners from the GAA national draw as an aside
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: AZOffaly on September 21, 2017, 01:19:11 PM
it can be debated either way and lest there be any mistakes i'm not a dub or living there but have a genuine interest in GAA development debate.

there are more counter acttractions in Dublin than in rural ireland leading to a less of a % playing. Population on its own doesn't tell full picture in a city, a larger proportion are apathetic to GAA or are actively anti GAA.

I proposed the Dublin underage structure of one week football one week hurling with fixtres for u8 up to u12 weekly to the county where i live and was met with 20 excuses why it couldn't work and no delegate prepared to stand back and say why dont we imitate a successful blueprint. I was prepared to give 2 years of my life to implement it fully but its easier to feind excuses than find development in may clubs and counties.

Dublin need the 1.3 million but not at others expenses., Others need it but not at Dublins expense would be my mantra

Bingo!!

Just as regards the point about diversions. Assuming your not talking about cinemas and discos and weemin, I'm not sure there are many less distractions in smaller towns any more. I live in a very small town in Tipperary. We have a thriving soccer club, rugby club and basketball club. My young lad is 10 and he plays hurling, football soccer and basketball. These days he has hurling on Monday and Friday, basketball on tuesdays and thursdays and soccer wednesdays and every second saturday. 

As regards fixtures, I absolutely take your point on that. In Tipp the underage fixtures are not too bad, except that they love getting the football out of the way early in the year, but at least there's loads of games to play. The young lad started football in March I think and has his last hurling game next Friday week. There's been games nearly every week in between. However I'm involved with Tipp development football squads, and I have made a similar request regarding fixtures for football. We are very competitive with other counties at 14, 15 etc, but as the lads get older, and particularly into adulthood, the club structures let Tipperary down and so gaps start to emerge between Tipp and Kerry, Cork, etc.

Money for coaching is very important, but it's not a silver bullet. Fixtures, competition structures, etc. are all components, and you have to get them all right. But at least you can fight to change the controllables. The money though, is one thing where the field is not level, and that's why I agree with your point in bold.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Maroon Manc on September 21, 2017, 02:30:24 PM
maroon,

its not a luxury its called fundraising locally. or higher membership rates....... i would think 50 clubs do so.




but the eternallly paranoid like Mckenna and his twitterers would have you believe that the 18k odd a year the club pays is actual loose change in all dublin clubs,

This comes back to the population question.  A lot easier to fundraise when you have massive population on your doorstep. Yet another reason why maybe Dublin don't actually need that 1.3 million per year if we are to believe ye guys :)

There was me thinking the likes of Aughamore & Knockmore would have no problem paying half a GDO's salary.

davitts are the 2nd highest  sellers / earners from the GAA national draw as an aside

Which clubs in Dublin contribute 50% to the salary of the GDO and how many members do those clubs have?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Orchard park on September 21, 2017, 02:37:32 PM
Maroon,

i'll leave that to the Dubliners or those based there to reply to but everyone of  them that have a full time GPO contribute 50% of the costs. I have estimated that to be 50 clubs, given there are 93 clubs in Dublin but you'd probably want to phone Parnell park to get a list of same. If you get it you might post it here also
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Hound on September 21, 2017, 03:45:23 PM
Christ only Dublin Cork and Galway have more registered players than Kildare, some under achievers considering those three are top level dual counties.
Kildare will definitely come again, and soon. Division 1 now and most of their players have beaten Dublin at underage. Good manager crucial.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: straightred on September 21, 2017, 03:53:42 PM
maroon,

its not a luxury its called fundraising locally. or higher membership rates....... i would think 50 clubs do so.




but the eternallly paranoid like Mckenna and his twitterers would have you believe that the 18k odd a year the club pays is actual loose change in all dublin clubs,
Or higher membership fees. My (Dublin) sub is 305 for myself (non-playing) and 2 kids (u16)
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Orchard park on September 21, 2017, 03:58:16 PM
I had said higher membership fees in addition to the fundraising.

normal juvenile membership for a juvenile is €150 in Dublin.........and they are getting brilliant value at that
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Maroon Manc on September 21, 2017, 07:32:27 PM
maroon,

its not a luxury its called fundraising locally. or higher membership rates....... i would think 50 clubs do so.




but the eternallly paranoid like Mckenna and his twitterers would have you believe that the 18k odd a year the club pays is actual loose change in all dublin clubs,
Or higher membership fees. My (Dublin) sub is 305 for myself (non-playing) and 2 kids (u16)

What would get for that in terms of gear?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: manfromdelmonte on September 21, 2017, 07:46:20 PM
I had said higher membership fees in addition to the fundraising.

normal juvenile membership for a juvenile is €150 in Dublin.........and they are getting brilliant value at that

€20 down our way, and the parents grumble about it

maybe because they aren't getting a full time coach into the school or a full time coach helping out with coaching matters in the club
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: straightred on September 21, 2017, 09:01:16 PM
I had said higher membership fees in addition to the fundraising.

normal juvenile membership for a juvenile is €150 in Dublin.........and they are getting brilliant value at that

€20 down our way, and the parents grumble about it

maybe because they aren't getting a full time coach into the school or a full time coach helping out with coaching matters in the club
Yeah - i know its a lot cheaper down the country. However, I've no issue with it as my lads get great value. Hurling and football matches on alternate weekends, training twice a week, other tournaments and trips as well. They play soccer as well and thats around 200 a year each so the GAA compares well. Things in general are dearer in Dublin and I've long since learned to accept that.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Orchard park on September 21, 2017, 10:04:29 PM
maroon,

its not a luxury its called fundraising locally. or higher membership rates....... i would think 50 clubs do so.




but the eternallly paranoid like Mckenna and his twitterers would have you believe that the 18k odd a year the club pays is actual loose change in all dublin clubs,
Or higher membership fees. My (Dublin) sub is 305 for myself (non-playing) and 2 kids (u16)

What would get for that in terms of gear?

Nothing I believe but no 2 euro for ref or pitch lot whatever else goes on. You  buy your own gear but as Straight red said a proper games structure  from u8 to u16  alternating between the codes.

Penny pinching  by psrents on fees is so short sighted and hinders proper club development
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: straightred on September 21, 2017, 10:27:48 PM
maroon,

its not a luxury its called fundraising locally. or higher membership rates....... i would think 50 clubs do so.




but the eternallly paranoid like Mckenna and his twitterers would have you believe that the 18k odd a year the club pays is actual loose change in all dublin clubs,
Or higher membership fees. My (Dublin) sub is 305 for myself (non-playing) and 2 kids (u16)

What would get for that in terms of gear?

Nothing I believe but no 2 euro for ref or pitch lot whatever else goes on. You  buy your own gear but as Straight red said a proper games structure  from u8 to u16  alternating between the codes.

Penny pinching  by psrents on fees is so short sighted and riders proper club development

Buy your own gear and wash it etc. Basically you get no extras but you pay for nothing either during the year except trips and maybe a bit of catering if you're hosting other clubs
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on September 22, 2017, 12:14:01 PM
sambo,

belfast is the most obvious place where GAA need to invest big time ( money and structures) and as you say it gas a lot of the same rural background positives like Dublin.


I wouldn't give the antrim county a penny until they demonstrably short their sh!t out.
If its not rows about hurling vs. football, its city vs. county or something else.


While anyone can yap and complain about Dublin getting extra money above the rest - no one can dispute they came up with a damn good plan of what they were going to do with it and implemented it. Antrim are damned by their clubs constantly in conflict with each other and the county board.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Rossfan on September 22, 2017, 12:17:38 PM
Dangle €1m in front of them, appoint a Croke Park employee as "Liaison Officer" and tell them to start planning.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Captain Scarlet on September 24, 2017, 04:29:14 AM
I know Ewan Mckenna wrote a very good piece on this and how John Bailey with Bertie backing him up helped to get money pumped into Dublin GAA and that led them to where they are now.
Reading it I found myself saying to myself why the f**k did we get left so badly behind in Kildare. We had Charlie McCreevy who had serious influence as Min for Finance. We had the horsey crowd and the boom times about to roll and all the money slushing around.
On top of all that we had a better senior team than Dublin for the period when the big plans really kicked in. Had we cashed in more, built Hawkfield and improved the county ground we would never have been left behind.
I know it is purely hypothetical but John Bailey had the vision. Do others counties have that to actually spend the money, even if it is given to them?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Hectic on September 24, 2017, 07:32:58 AM
Dublin has a massive population and hence more potential than any county in Ireland. However this needs to be harnessed and Dublin over the last couple of decades have made massive strides in this regard.

I look at our own situation in Belfast where we have a relatively large urban population that is not being exploited to anywhere near the extent Dublin is.

Finance would be a massive step but it is not the full journey. It takes organisation, commitment and vision among other things and Dublin deserve massive credit in this regard.

Surely the ultimate goal is to have as many young people participate in Gaelic games with success being a by product of this. I wpuld rather see Dublin dominate than have their massive population disengaged with the games.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: The Hill is Blue on September 24, 2017, 12:28:43 PM


Keith Duggan in The Irish Times:

New-look Dublin have wiped the smile off the country’s face

Fifteen years ago, when there was heady talk of using the River Liffey to split Dublin into two North and South Dublin fortresses, among the voices expressing concern and outrage came a thoughtful observation by Tommy Lyons, who had the head-wrecking task of managing the Dubs at the time.

“The country by and large loves Dublin to be there or thereabouts but don’t want them winning anything. They like to keep them in isolation and that is what’s happened. That’s our tribal warfare and that’s what keeps the association thriving.”

He hit the nail on the head. In 2002, everyone agreed that the Dubs were indeed ‘box office’; guaranteed to pack Croke Park in the dog days of August and illuminating Dorset St with a blustery localised expectation. To national delight, they could usually be relied upon to crash and burn at some stage, allowing their flintier brethren from down the country to do the actual winning and speechifying.

In 2002, Dublin had been All-Ireland champions just once since Kevin Heffernan’s swansong All-Ireland of 1983. The main point of the review committee was to make the capital’s burgeoning population more manageable for the GAA; the thinking was that handling a million-plus people was simply too many sandwiches for any one county board to make.

Using the dirty old river as a clean divide, it was possible to dream up a scenario in which there were two city teams.

“People must remember that even if Dublin is split it will still be the two biggest counties in terms of its population” said Peter Quinn, chair of the review.

Diarmuid Connolly was 15-years-old when that review came out. James McCarthy was 12. Neither teenager could have had much of a living memory reference to the notion of Dublin winning All-Irelands. The GAA and government rush to fund Dublin GAA had already begun. But you have to assume that by then, hundreds of volunteer coaching hours had already gone into the training of both Connolly and McCarthy and their peers.

In 2002, Connolly’s club, St Vincent’s, was locked in a time-trap. The club hadn’t won a Dublin senior title since 1984. Whatever money was going into the development and future welfare of Dublin football didn’t really matter to whoever it was in Vincent’s that worked with the ten-year-old Connolly on developing the unblemished kicking technique that featured in Sunday’s final.

And it is well documented that Paddy Christie, who was Dublin’s full back in 2002, saw that nothing was happening to bring kids through in Ballymun so he took it on himself to organise underage training. Among the players that wandered along were Dean Rock, Philly McMahon and James McCarthy. It’s impossible to prove this, but there is a decent argument to be made that if those three players – just those three – decided Gaelic football wasn’t for them, then Dublin would not have won any of its recent All-Irelands.

Lavish theatre

In 2002, Dublin beat Donegal in the All-Ireland quarter-final after a replay. There was a sense that the Dubs were going somewhere; that they were a coming force. But then they went and fell apart against Joe Kernan’s fabulous Armagh side in the All-Ireland semi-final. That game was a vivid manifestation of the point that Lyons had made in January. Armagh had come along and made a bonfire of Dublin vanities and around the country, everybody loved it.

The Dubs were like this lavish theatre, providing the stadium, the pubs, the shady car-parking arrangements and the Greek chorus on the Hill. But when the pressure came, they cracked up.

They looked scared of Armagh; scared of their muscles and scared of their ambition. Armagh won and that segued into the Tyrone-Armagh era and in the subsequent years, the Dublin North and South idea was quietly shelved as a succession of counties delighted in giving the city boys from both sides of the river their comeuppance. And the country was just fine with this arrangement.

It could go on forever.

They can’t really say this in Kerry but deep down, there must be a feeling in the Kingdom that they let the genie out of the bottle in that All-Ireland final of 2011. Dublin’s enormous potential as an All-Ireland serial winner was there for everyone to see. But the more they failed, the more defined their role as glamorous losers seemed to be. Kerry didn’t close out that game and the Dubs caught them with a late brilliant rush through the gates and since then, everything has changed.

The dominance of Dublin under Jim Gavin has led to a nationwide conclusion that the beast has finally been stirred. The population and heavy financial backing and corporate appeal have led to the mathematical equation of limitless All-Irelands in their future.

But that possible future diminishes the achievement of this year’s team. Also, there is a nagging sense that if you take out just a handful of people from the Dublin GAA scene just now – Jim Gavin, Pat Gilroy, John Costello, Stephen Cluxton, McCarthy and Connolly – they simply won’t be replaced. Not ‘take out’ in a Tony Soprano sense but just imagine Dublin without their on-field and off-field influences and maybe the big monster doesn’t look quite as scary; maybe the composure piece doesn’t look quite as composed.

It could well be that Dublin will go on to complete a five-in-a-row. And it stands to reason that if such a densely populated county improves its city coaching structure so that the best 30 kids every year are identified and given the best training and funnelled through so that two or maybe three progress to the Dublin senior squad, then they should be a perpetual force; should quickly catch Kerry’s all-time horde of All-Irelands and realise their potential as the most dominant team in the country.

The fear that the GAA has created something beyond its control may well be proven true. And in the future years, it could be borne out that no other county can live with the best that Dublin offer.

But right now, in 2017, this Dublin team has emerged from a culture of falling short to national delight. They have turned it around. There are nameless people all over the city who will believe that the unpaid hours they gave to Cian O’Sullivan or to Cluxton or to Eoghan O’Gara have, in a small intangible way, contributed to this dynastic run.

So Dublin are no longer there or thereabouts. Dublin are there to stay. Nobody seems sure how to respond. Splitting the county should no more be an option in Dublin than it is for Kerry. The lure of the GAA is playing for your county, not playing for half of it.

So now, the GAA needs a strategic review to offer solutions as to how to at least keep the illusion of a national competition alive. A quick glance at the provincial and national winners scroll shows that nothing has really changed. Laois have won a single Leinster senior championship since 1945. Louth have not won in Leinster since 1957, Wexford since 1945 and Offaly since 1997.

Their fortunes have not been affected by Dublin’s surge. It was always Dublin’s world: they just didn’t know it. All that has happened in the last five years is that Dublin have gotten serious and nobody is laughing now.



Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: magpie seanie on September 25, 2017, 10:02:41 PM
Dublin has a massive population and hence more potential than any county in Ireland. However this needs to be harnessed and Dublin over the last couple of decades have made massive strides in this regard.

I look at our own situation in Belfast where we have a relatively large urban population that is not being exploited to anywhere near the extent Dublin is.

Finance would be a massive step but it is not the full journey. It takes organisation, commitment and vision among other things and Dublin deserve massive credit in this regard.

Surely the ultimate goal is to have as many young people participate in Gaelic games with success being a by product of this. I wpuld rather see Dublin dominate than have their massive population disengaged with the games.


Absolutely. The Sam Maguire is only one competition in the GAA. It's the highest profile and possibly the only one a lot of fans care about. i'd suggest the priorities of those people are misplaced. Get into your clubs and follow your underage and adult teams. Loads of enjoyment to be had.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: From the Bunker on September 25, 2017, 11:34:27 PM


Keith Duggan in The Irish Times:

New-look Dublin have wiped the smile off the country’s face

Fifteen years ago, when there was heady talk of using the River Liffey to split Dublin into two North and South Dublin fortresses, among the voices expressing concern and outrage came a thoughtful observation by Tommy Lyons, who had the head-wrecking task of managing the Dubs at the time.

“The country by and large loves Dublin to be there or thereabouts but don’t want them winning anything. They like to keep them in isolation and that is what’s happened. That’s our tribal warfare and that’s what keeps the association thriving.”

He hit the nail on the head. In 2002, everyone agreed that the Dubs were indeed ‘box office’; guaranteed to pack Croke Park in the dog days of August and illuminating Dorset St with a blustery localised expectation. To national delight, they could usually be relied upon to crash and burn at some stage, allowing their flintier brethren from down the country to do the actual winning and speechifying.

In 2002, Dublin had been All-Ireland champions just once since Kevin Heffernan’s swansong All-Ireland of 1983. The main point of the review committee was to make the capital’s burgeoning population more manageable for the GAA; the thinking was that handling a million-plus people was simply too many sandwiches for any one county board to make.

Using the dirty old river as a clean divide, it was possible to dream up a scenario in which there were two city teams.

“People must remember that even if Dublin is split it will still be the two biggest counties in terms of its population” said Peter Quinn, chair of the review.

Diarmuid Connolly was 15-years-old when that review came out. James McCarthy was 12. Neither teenager could have had much of a living memory reference to the notion of Dublin winning All-Irelands. The GAA and government rush to fund Dublin GAA had already begun. But you have to assume that by then, hundreds of volunteer coaching hours had already gone into the training of both Connolly and McCarthy and their peers.

In 2002, Connolly’s club, St Vincent’s, was locked in a time-trap. The club hadn’t won a Dublin senior title since 1984. Whatever money was going into the development and future welfare of Dublin football didn’t really matter to whoever it was in Vincent’s that worked with the ten-year-old Connolly on developing the unblemished kicking technique that featured in Sunday’s final.

And it is well documented that Paddy Christie, who was Dublin’s full back in 2002, saw that nothing was happening to bring kids through in Ballymun so he took it on himself to organise underage training. Among the players that wandered along were Dean Rock, Philly McMahon and James McCarthy. It’s impossible to prove this, but there is a decent argument to be made that if those three players – just those three – decided Gaelic football wasn’t for them, then Dublin would not have won any of its recent All-Irelands.

Lavish theatre

In 2002, Dublin beat Donegal in the All-Ireland quarter-final after a replay. There was a sense that the Dubs were going somewhere; that they were a coming force. But then they went and fell apart against Joe Kernan’s fabulous Armagh side in the All-Ireland semi-final. That game was a vivid manifestation of the point that Lyons had made in January. Armagh had come along and made a bonfire of Dublin vanities and around the country, everybody loved it.

The Dubs were like this lavish theatre, providing the stadium, the pubs, the shady car-parking arrangements and the Greek chorus on the Hill. But when the pressure came, they cracked up.

They looked scared of Armagh; scared of their muscles and scared of their ambition. Armagh won and that segued into the Tyrone-Armagh era and in the subsequent years, the Dublin North and South idea was quietly shelved as a succession of counties delighted in giving the city boys from both sides of the river their comeuppance. And the country was just fine with this arrangement.

It could go on forever.

They can’t really say this in Kerry but deep down, there must be a feeling in the Kingdom that they let the genie out of the bottle in that All-Ireland final of 2011. Dublin’s enormous potential as an All-Ireland serial winner was there for everyone to see. But the more they failed, the more defined their role as glamorous losers seemed to be. Kerry didn’t close out that game and the Dubs caught them with a late brilliant rush through the gates and since then, everything has changed.

The dominance of Dublin under Jim Gavin has led to a nationwide conclusion that the beast has finally been stirred. The population and heavy financial backing and corporate appeal have led to the mathematical equation of limitless All-Irelands in their future.

But that possible future diminishes the achievement of this year’s team. Also, there is a nagging sense that if you take out just a handful of people from the Dublin GAA scene just now – Jim Gavin, Pat Gilroy, John Costello, Stephen Cluxton, McCarthy and Connolly – they simply won’t be replaced. Not ‘take out’ in a Tony Soprano sense but just imagine Dublin without their on-field and off-field influences and maybe the big monster doesn’t look quite as scary; maybe the composure piece doesn’t look quite as composed.

It could well be that Dublin will go on to complete a five-in-a-row. And it stands to reason that if such a densely populated county improves its city coaching structure so that the best 30 kids every year are identified and given the best training and funnelled through so that two or maybe three progress to the Dublin senior squad, then they should be a perpetual force; should quickly catch Kerry’s all-time horde of All-Irelands and realise their potential as the most dominant team in the country.

The fear that the GAA has created something beyond its control may well be proven true. And in the future years, it could be borne out that no other county can live with the best that Dublin offer.

But right now, in 2017, this Dublin team has emerged from a culture of falling short to national delight. They have turned it around. There are nameless people all over the city who will believe that the unpaid hours they gave to Cian O’Sullivan or to Cluxton or to Eoghan O’Gara have, in a small intangible way, contributed to this dynastic run.

So Dublin are no longer there or thereabouts. Dublin are there to stay. Nobody seems sure how to respond. Splitting the county should no more be an option in Dublin than it is for Kerry. The lure of the GAA is playing for your county, not playing for half of it.

So now, the GAA needs a strategic review to offer solutions as to how to at least keep the illusion of a national competition alive. A quick glance at the provincial and national winners scroll shows that nothing has really changed. Laois have won a single Leinster senior championship since 1945. Louth have not won in Leinster since 1957, Wexford since 1945 and Offaly since 1997.

Their fortunes have not been affected by Dublin’s surge. It was always Dublin’s world: they just didn’t know it. All that has happened in the last five years is that Dublin have gotten serious and nobody is laughing now.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Zulu on September 26, 2017, 12:35:14 PM
Do you assume otherwise? Do you assume Connolly at 15 was only average and that he was immediately put on a lavishly funded programme to turn him into Ireland's best footballer?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Syferus on September 26, 2017, 03:09:43 PM
Do you assume otherwise? Do you assume Connolly at 15 was only average and that he was immediately put on a lavishly funded programme to turn him into Ireland's best footballer?

Dublin Defence Force Zulu has been activated..
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: From the Bunker on September 26, 2017, 04:04:40 PM
Do you assume otherwise? Do you assume Connolly at 15 was only average and that he was immediately put on a lavishly funded programme to turn him into Ireland's best footballer?

I assume D.C. was a talent and was properly coached and moulded. I more than assume that this more and more happened to players younger than him. Do you think these talents are just falling out f the sky? That money has no bearing?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Dinny Breen on September 26, 2017, 04:55:46 PM
Do you assume otherwise? Do you assume Connolly at 15 was only average and that he was immediately put on a lavishly funded programme to turn him into Ireland's best footballer?

I assume D.C. was a talent and was properly coached and moulded. I more than assume that this more and more happened to players younger than him. Do you think these talents are just falling out f the sky? That money has no bearing?

natural talent and volunteerism just a once twice in a lifetime generation
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Rossfan on September 26, 2017, 05:15:49 PM
Do you assume otherwise? Do you assume Connolly at 15 was only average and that he was immediately put on a lavishly funded programme to turn him into Ireland's best footballer?

Dublin Defence Force Zulu

 :D ;D
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Hound on September 27, 2017, 12:37:25 PM

Quote
But then Dublin went and fell apart against Joe Kernan’s fabulous Armagh side in the All-Ireland semi-final. That game was a vivid manifestation of the point that Lyons had made in January. Armagh had come along and made a bonfire of Dublin vanities and around the country, everybody loved it.

The Dubs were like this lavish theatre, providing the stadium, the pubs, the shady car-parking arrangements and the Greek chorus on the Hill. But when the pressure came, they cracked up.


This type of utter nonsense used to really get to me, and these days Mayo often get similar nonsense thrown at them.

That All Ireland semi final in 2002 was a very exciting game played between two evenly matched teams. A game that could have gone either way, the width of the post the difference between a draw and a 1 point Armagh win. They scored 1 point more, thus Armagh deserved their win. But Armagh were described as "fabulous" and the Dubs "fell apart"!
 
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Lar Naparka on September 28, 2017, 11:31:30 AM
If the GAA want more big Counties being competitive with Dublin then money needs to go into Belfast/Antrim, Louth,Wicklow and dare we say Kildare and Meath.
Those 5 should be around the same standard as Mayowestros and Donegal/Tyrone based on population figures. In all probability they have higher percentages of under 25s.
Cork occasionally and Kerry usually will also compete for AIs.
As for the rest of us in the little Counties.......occasional appearances in Super 8s will be our lot with the odd Connacht or Ulster title thrown in.
Sadly.
Just spotted this now.
 A while ago, 3 or 4 months, I can't be sure, the GAA did announce that extra funding would be allocated to Meath and Kildare also. The idea was to help cater for their rapidly growing populations but there was litle or no public reaction to this announcement.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Rossfan on October 14, 2017, 09:50:46 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/soccer-holds-sway-in-gaa-wastelands-of-dundalk-and-drogheda-1.3255495?mode=amp

Time Louth got a dig out too!!
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Zulu on October 14, 2017, 09:55:03 PM
That's exactly what the GAA should be doing, identifying areas of growth and funding the process of turning potential into reality.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Syferus on October 14, 2017, 10:04:24 PM
That's exactly what the GAA should be doing, identifying areas of growth and funding the process of turning potential into reality.

Every area is an area of potential growth compared to the money being pumped into Dublin. If your idea of a response to a massive disadvantage is to create others, you have a serious flaw in your logic.

You can’t make a song with one note, Zulu.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Zulu on October 14, 2017, 10:37:00 PM
That's exactly what the GAA should be doing, identifying areas of growth and funding the process of turning potential into reality.

Every area is an area of potential growth compared to the money being pumped into Dublin. If your idea of a response to a massive disadvantage is to create others, you have a serious flaw in your logic.

You can’t make a song with one note, Zulu.

For the love of Christ. Are you saying the GAA shouldn't fund the growth of the GAA in areas line Dundalk where it can expand? What are you arguing? Are you saying we shouldn't fund the growth of any urban area as that will leave rural, smaller areas behind? You give out a whole lot but I see no alternatives from you.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Dinny Breen on October 15, 2017, 08:47:27 AM
That's exactly what the GAA should be doing, identifying areas of growth and funding the process of turning potential into reality.

Every area is an area of potential growth compared to the money being pumped into Dublin. If your idea of a response to a massive disadvantage is to create others, you have a serious flaw in your logic.

You can’t make a song with one note, Zulu.

For the love of Christ. Are you saying the GAA shouldn't fund the growth of the GAA in areas line Dundalk where it can expand? What are you arguing? Are you saying we shouldn't fund the growth of any urban area as that will leave rural, smaller areas behind? You give out a whole lot but I see no alternatives from you.

Has the millions in funding grown the game in Dublin? I don't know btw but anecdotally I don't see new clubs being formed every year, introducing kids to GAA or any sport in schools is great but how do you transition those kids to clubs? 
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: ONeill on October 15, 2017, 08:51:57 AM
Has anyone from Dublin admitted there's something not right about the distribution of funds?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: armaghniac on October 15, 2017, 12:02:59 PM
It would be easier to get Jim Allister to admit that British rule in Ireland was a disgrace than for anyone in Dublin to admit that the allocation of money is in any way unbalanced.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Minder on November 30, 2017, 12:46:51 PM
@MickFoley76  (Sunday Times journalist)

Quick scan of the sports grants: 64 six figure sums to clubs in Dublin, 31 received 150k - the highest amount. 29 six figure sums went to clubs in the rest of the country, 2 clubs outside Dublin received 150k.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Rossfan on November 30, 2017, 03:06:45 PM
 >:( >:( :(
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: AZOffaly on November 30, 2017, 03:15:56 PM
We got 38.5K, so can't complain. It will allow us astro turf our hurling wall, and do a few other bits and bobs.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: twohands!!! on November 30, 2017, 08:05:47 PM
@MickFoley76  (Sunday Times journalist)

Quick scan of the sports grants: 64 six figure sums to clubs in Dublin, 31 received 150k - the highest amount. 29 six figure sums went to clubs in the rest of the country, 2 clubs outside Dublin received 150k.

Feck that stat reads as fairly crazy.

It's hardly as if they are actually buying land, so what's the reason for the discrepancy?
There's hardly that much of a difference in wages and other costs.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Lar Naparka on December 03, 2017, 02:25:55 PM
 Here’s a piece from Balls.ie (http://"https://www.balls.ie/gaa/sporting-grants-breakdown-show-massive-weighting-towards-dublin-gaa-clubs-378685") dealing with the same subject. Under the heading, Sporting Grants Breakdown Show Massive Weighting Towards Dublin GAA Clubs,it goes into more detail than Foley does. This particular paragraph makes for interesting reading.
According to the latest census, Dublin's population accounts for approx. 28% of Ireland's total, with 38% in the entire Dublin greater area (Including parts of Meath, Kildare, etc.) If the argument is that funding should be in line with population, questions must be asked as to why the funding granted to Dublin is still disproportionate compared to that? To take GAA games development funding of 31 counties per player to Dublin level would need budget increase from €3,138,907 to €90,673,525.40.
Further down this article there’s a link to Ewan McKenna’s Twitter feed.
Here It's stated that Dublin gets 12.5 the amount of funding for each registered player than Mayo does. When you consider all the other advantages Dublin have over Mayo, how can anyone say that the reason Dublin edged out Mayo in recent AI finals can be put down to the sheer talent of the Dubs’ players and that alone?
IMO, there's a serious flow in the line of thought that money must be pumped into Dublin GAA to ensure its survival, even if it means every other county have to go and suck the hind tit where grant aid is concerned.
Intercounty championship competition is the lifeblood of the GAA, always was and always will be.
 How can the GAA prosper in Dublin when there soon won’t be a single county in the land who could give them a serious challenge? Sure, there will always be the possibility that some county ay catch them on an off day but no other side will be able to do what Mayo is doing at the moment.
Already the signs are ominous with attendances dropping at championship games throughout the country. Why do you think this fecking Super 8 format was devised?
It’s there to help make up the shortfall as revenues drops and interest in the competition wanes. This is only a holding tactic, it will postpone the inevitable, not remove it.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: From the Bunker on December 03, 2017, 03:27:36 PM
Did not renew my season ticket this year! Will only go to the convenient Mayo games. GAA at intercounty is in melt down. The Government and the GAA have created a MONSTER called Dublin. The Leinster Championship has not existed now for nearly a decade. The AI is not much better.

The main media continually ignores the MONEY issue with Dublin.

I've learned to go back to the Club scene and enjoy that!
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Avondhu star on December 03, 2017, 04:42:40 PM
Did not renew my season ticket this year! Will only go to the convenient Mayo games. GAA at intercounty is in melt down. The Government and the GAA have created a MONSTER called Dublin. The Leinster Championship has not existed now for nearly a decade. The AI is not much better.

The main media continually ignores the MONEY issue with Dublin.

I've learned to go back to the Club scene and enjoy that!

A Club scene where county players are rarely seen bar championship games
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: mup on December 03, 2017, 08:50:34 PM
Did not renew my season ticket this year! Will only go to the convenient Mayo games. GAA at intercounty is in melt down. The Government and the GAA have created a MONSTER called Dublin. The Leinster Championship has not existed now for nearly a decade. The AI is not much better.

The main media continually ignores the MONEY issue with Dublin.

I've learned to go back to the Club scene and enjoy that!

I've been doing that for three years now.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: From the Bunker on December 03, 2017, 09:20:51 PM
Did not renew my season ticket this year! Will only go to the convenient Mayo games. GAA at intercounty is in melt down. The Government and the GAA have created a MONSTER called Dublin. The Leinster Championship has not existed now for nearly a decade. The AI is not much better.

The main media continually ignores the MONEY issue with Dublin.

I've learned to go back to the Club scene and enjoy that!

I've been doing that for three years now.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: TheGreatest on December 04, 2017, 10:29:25 AM
Funny its the two Mayo lads have a cry, surprised of the wording, gone back to club scene, should have never been away from it.

Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Rossfan on December 04, 2017, 11:09:37 AM
I see the Leinster club SHC has gone like the Inter County SFC - a  procession for Dublin.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: TheGreatest on December 04, 2017, 12:39:02 PM
I see the Leinster club SHC has gone like the Inter County SFC - a  procession for Dublin.

Split Caula in two, North and South Dalky. Are any team in Dublin allowed win or should they run it by the rest of the country first.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: From the Bunker on December 04, 2017, 01:00:50 PM
I see the Leinster club SHC has gone like the Inter County SFC - a  procession for Dublin.

Split Caula in two, North and South Dalky. Are any team in Dublin allowed win or should they run it by the rest of the country first.

If they did it would be a first, not many decisions are decided outside the Pale. Grants, Super 8, Important Football games.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: TheGreatest on December 04, 2017, 01:04:22 PM
I see the Leinster club SHC has gone like the Inter County SFC - a  procession for Dublin.

Split Caula in two, North and South Dalky. Are any team in Dublin allowed win or should they run it by the rest of the country first.

If they did it would be a first, not many decisions are decided outside the Pale. Grants, Super 8, Important Football games.

1. You apply for grants, anyone can apply, see non GAA list of clubs. Also party pump politics are at play here too. Show list of rejections.
2. Super 8 , Non Dubs in headquarters make those decisions, the administration are all about money.
3. Important football games, lets play the all Ireland in Castlebar every year to give you a chance.

Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Hound on December 04, 2017, 01:06:48 PM
Here’s a piece from Balls.ie (http://"https://www.balls.ie/gaa/sporting-grants-breakdown-show-massive-weighting-towards-dublin-gaa-clubs-378685") dealing with the same subject. Under the heading, Sporting Grants Breakdown Show Massive Weighting Towards Dublin GAA Clubs,it goes into more detail than Foley does.

Key paragraph from that link:

There's no doubt that on an individual basis, the grants to Dublin clubs may well be justified, and it's unlikely there is an actual bias, and it's more down to better lobbying and organisation, and better proposals. There is also the issue of capital expenditure being significantly more expensive in Dublin.

Each club made their own submission. The county the club happened to be in was totally irrelevant.

What is probably shows is that Dublin clubs continue to grow because population continues to increase, so there is more need for improved facilities.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: From the Bunker on December 04, 2017, 01:22:14 PM
I see the Leinster club SHC has gone like the Inter County SFC - a  procession for Dublin.

Split Caula in two, North and South Dalky. Are any team in Dublin allowed win or should they run it by the rest of the country first.

If they did it would be a first, not many decisions are decided outside the Pale. Grants, Super 8, Important Football games.

1. You apply for grants, anyone can apply, see non GAA list of clubs. Also party pump politics are at play here too. Show list of rejections.
2. Super 8 , Non Dubs in headquarters make those decisions, the administration are all about money.
3. Important football games, lets play the all Ireland in Castlebar every year to give you a chance.

Believe what you like. It's been about Croke Park and Dublin for the last 15 years!

Its kinda sad when Dublin have to play all their games at home. Can you imagine any other sport giving credit to a team and it's support with such an advantage of playing all their games at home! That coupled with all the MONEY! You own the MEDIA so they won't say anything because they are afraid you won't buy your papers and they won't listen to your Radio stations.

Dublin will have it all to themselves pretty soon. Should be great fun being a Dublin supporter in Croke Park with little or no rival fans. With all your Money you could do what North Korea do and hire some fans.

Gaelic football at inter-county is a mess. People outside the Pale are walking away!
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Zulu on December 04, 2017, 02:21:00 PM
Take off the tin hat for Christ sake!

There are issues but when you post nonsense like "You own the MEDIA so they won't say anything because they are afraid you won't buy your papers and they won't listen to your Radio stations" you lose credibility.

Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: OgraAnDun on December 04, 2017, 02:25:47 PM
Here’s a piece from Balls.ie (http://"https://www.balls.ie/gaa/sporting-grants-breakdown-show-massive-weighting-towards-dublin-gaa-clubs-378685") dealing with the same subject. Under the heading, Sporting Grants Breakdown Show Massive Weighting Towards Dublin GAA Clubs,it goes into more detail than Foley does.

Key paragraph from that link:

There's no doubt that on an individual basis, the grants to Dublin clubs may well be justified, and it's unlikely there is an actual bias, and it's more down to better lobbying and organisation, and better proposals. There is also the issue of capital expenditure being significantly more expensive in Dublin.

Each club made their own submission. The county the club happened to be in was totally irrelevant.

What is probably shows is that Dublin clubs continue to grow because population continues to increase, so there is more need for improved facilities.

Serious question here, does the Dublin CB have someone helping clubs to fill out the grant forms in a way that they are more likely to meet the requirements for funding?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: TheGreatest on December 04, 2017, 02:51:14 PM
I see the Leinster club SHC has gone like the Inter County SFC - a  procession for Dublin.

Split Caula in two, North and South Dalky. Are any team in Dublin allowed win or should they run it by the rest of the country first.

If they did it would be a first, not many decisions are decided outside the Pale. Grants, Super 8, Important Football games.

1. You apply for grants, anyone can apply, see non GAA list of clubs. Also party pump politics are at play here too. Show list of rejections.
2. Super 8 , Non Dubs in headquarters make those decisions, the administration are all about money.
3. Important football games, lets play the all Ireland in Castlebar every year to give you a chance.

Believe what you like. It's been about Croke Park and Dublin for the last 15 years!

Its kinda sad when Dublin have to play all their games at home. Can you imagine any other sport giving credit to a team and it's support with such an advantage of playing all their games at home! That coupled with all the MONEY! You own the MEDIA so they won't say anything because they are afraid you won't buy your papers and they won't listen to your Radio stations.

Dublin will have it all to themselves pretty soon. Should be great fun being a Dublin supporter in Croke Park with little or no rival fans. With all your Money you could do what North Korea do and hire some fans.

Gaelic football at inter-county is a mess. People outside the Pale are walking away!

That's an embarrassing post, I feel sorry for you and maybe you should seek some help with your grievances. 
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: mup on December 04, 2017, 03:30:48 PM
I see the Leinster club SHC has gone like the Inter County SFC - a  procession for Dublin.

Split Caula in two, North and South Dalky. Are any team in Dublin allowed win or should they run it by the rest of the country first.

If they did it would be a first, not many decisions are decided outside the Pale. Grants, Super 8, Important Football games.

1. You apply for grants, anyone can apply, see non GAA list of clubs. Also party pump politics are at play here too. Show list of rejections.
2. Super 8 , Non Dubs in headquarters make those decisions, the administration are all about money.
3. Important football games, lets play the all Ireland in Castlebar every year to give you a chance.

Believe what you like. It's been about Croke Park and Dublin for the last 15 years!

Its kinda sad when Dublin have to play all their games at home. Can you imagine any other sport giving credit to a team and it's support with such an advantage of playing all their games at home! That coupled with all the MONEY! You own the MEDIA so they won't say anything because they are afraid you won't buy your papers and they won't listen to your Radio stations.

Dublin will have it all to themselves pretty soon. Should be great fun being a Dublin supporter in Croke Park with little or no rival fans. With all your Money you could do what North Korea do and hire some fans.

Gaelic football at inter-county is a mess. People outside the Pale are walking away!

That's an embarrassing post, I feel sorry for you and maybe you should seek some help with your grievances.

 ;D ;D

So it's not ok for someone else to make wild allegations but it's ok for you to do it?

Gotcha
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Orchard park on December 04, 2017, 04:44:25 PM
Here’s a piece from Balls.ie (http://"https://www.balls.ie/gaa/sporting-grants-breakdown-show-massive-weighting-towards-dublin-gaa-clubs-378685") dealing with the same subject. Under the heading, Sporting Grants Breakdown Show Massive Weighting Towards Dublin GAA Clubs,it goes into more detail than Foley does.

Key paragraph from that link:

There's no doubt that on an individual basis, the grants to Dublin clubs may well be justified, and it's unlikely there is an actual bias, and it's more down to better lobbying and organisation, and better proposals. There is also the issue of capital expenditure being significantly more expensive in Dublin.

Each club made their own submission. The county the club happened to be in was totally irrelevant.

What is probably shows is that Dublin clubs continue to grow because population continues to increase, so there is more need for improved facilities.

Serious question here, does the Dublin CB have someone helping clubs to fill out the grant forms in a way that they are more likely to meet the requirements for funding?

No there isnt DCB assistance  , but it would be a logical thing for all county boards to do wouldnt it
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: OgraAnDun on December 04, 2017, 04:49:18 PM
Here’s a piece from Balls.ie (http://"https://www.balls.ie/gaa/sporting-grants-breakdown-show-massive-weighting-towards-dublin-gaa-clubs-378685") dealing with the same subject. Under the heading, Sporting Grants Breakdown Show Massive Weighting Towards Dublin GAA Clubs,it goes into more detail than Foley does.

Key paragraph from that link:

There's no doubt that on an individual basis, the grants to Dublin clubs may well be justified, and it's unlikely there is an actual bias, and it's more down to better lobbying and organisation, and better proposals. There is also the issue of capital expenditure being significantly more expensive in Dublin.

Each club made their own submission. The county the club happened to be in was totally irrelevant.

What is probably shows is that Dublin clubs continue to grow because population continues to increase, so there is more need for improved facilities.

Serious question here, does the Dublin CB have someone helping clubs to fill out the grant forms in a way that they are more likely to meet the requirements for funding?

No there isnt DCB assistance  , but it would be a logical thing for all county boards to do wouldnt it

It would, but I wonder would most of the other 31 CBs lack the funds to acquire the necessary expertise.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Hound on December 04, 2017, 05:07:04 PM
Here’s a piece from Balls.ie (http://"https://www.balls.ie/gaa/sporting-grants-breakdown-show-massive-weighting-towards-dublin-gaa-clubs-378685") dealing with the same subject. Under the heading, Sporting Grants Breakdown Show Massive Weighting Towards Dublin GAA Clubs,it goes into more detail than Foley does.

Key paragraph from that link:

There's no doubt that on an individual basis, the grants to Dublin clubs may well be justified, and it's unlikely there is an actual bias, and it's more down to better lobbying and organisation, and better proposals. There is also the issue of capital expenditure being significantly more expensive in Dublin.

Each club made their own submission. The county the club happened to be in was totally irrelevant.

What is probably shows is that Dublin clubs continue to grow because population continues to increase, so there is more need for improved facilities.

Serious question here, does the Dublin CB have someone helping clubs to fill out the grant forms in a way that they are more likely to meet the requirements for funding?

No there isnt DCB assistance  , but it would be a logical thing for all county boards to do wouldnt it

It would, but I wonder would most of the other 31 CBs lack the funds to acquire the necessary expertise.
Its nothing to do with funding. DCB don't go round hiring people to give lessons to the clubs on how to fill out grant applications. Dublin clubs get turned down too for incorrect forms.

It's not rocket science, but you do need somebody who's able to fill out lengthy forms. Would it be easier to find such members in urban rather than rural clubs?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Hound on December 04, 2017, 05:09:18 PM
Take off the tin hat for Christ sake!

There are issues but when you post nonsense like "You own the MEDIA so they won't say anything because they are afraid you won't buy your papers and they won't listen to your Radio stations" you lose credibility.

FTB lost all faith in the media when they made Keegan pull down Connolly in an All Ireland final replay! He'll never forgive them.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Syferus on December 04, 2017, 05:37:39 PM
Here’s a piece from Balls.ie (http://"https://www.balls.ie/gaa/sporting-grants-breakdown-show-massive-weighting-towards-dublin-gaa-clubs-378685") dealing with the same subject. Under the heading, Sporting Grants Breakdown Show Massive Weighting Towards Dublin GAA Clubs,it goes into more detail than Foley does.

Key paragraph from that link:

There's no doubt that on an individual basis, the grants to Dublin clubs may well be justified, and it's unlikely there is an actual bias, and it's more down to better lobbying and organisation, and better proposals. There is also the issue of capital expenditure being significantly more expensive in Dublin.

Each club made their own submission. The county the club happened to be in was totally irrelevant.

What is probably shows is that Dublin clubs continue to grow because population continues to increase, so there is more need for improved facilities.

Serious question here, does the Dublin CB have someone helping clubs to fill out the grant forms in a way that they are more likely to meet the requirements for funding?

No there isnt DCB assistance  , but it would be a logical thing for all county boards to do wouldnt it

It would, but I wonder would most of the other 31 CBs lack the funds to acquire the necessary expertise.
Its nothing to do with funding. DCB don't go round hiring people to give lessons to the clubs on how to fill out grant applications. Dublin clubs get turned down too for incorrect forms.

It's not rocket science, but you do need somebody who's able to fill out lengthy forms. Would it be easier to find such members in urban rather than rural clubs?

To translate your Dublinaese, would it be easier for clubs larger than many counties to produce a professional, legally impeccable business plan and get it passed by a HQ handing grant money to Dublin at a rate per registered member that is many multiples that of which is given to other counties?

Yes.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: From the Bunker on December 04, 2017, 07:11:27 PM
Take off the tin hat for Christ sake!

There are issues but when you post nonsense like "You own the MEDIA so they won't say anything because they are afraid you won't buy your papers and they won't listen to your Radio stations" you lose credibility.

Where are all the National Newspapers and Radio stations located? Where are the biggest sales? Jez, Zulu, you talk about tin hats! You are the one who seriously needs glasses! You are stuck in a romantic version of the GAA that died about 7 or 8 years ago. I suppose it's hard for me to expect a lad living in England to understand when lads even in my own county can't see the wood from the trees. But hey you believe what you want to believe.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: From the Bunker on December 04, 2017, 07:16:10 PM
Take off the tin hat for Christ sake!

There are issues but when you post nonsense like "You own the MEDIA so they won't say anything because they are afraid you won't buy your papers and they won't listen to your Radio stations" you lose credibility.

FTB lost all faith in the media when they made Keegan pull down Connolly in an All Ireland final replay! He'll never forgive them.

Yes, your motley crew got busily to work that week in the media. I say there was up to 10 former Dublin Players who singled out Keegan for special attention. A well orchestrated blackening of a player! Thanks for highlighting that!
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: TheGreatest on December 05, 2017, 08:13:12 AM
Think this guy is a WUM, ban him.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Farrandeelin on December 05, 2017, 09:42:24 AM
Think this guy is a WUM, ban him.

Pot, kettle and black.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: mup on December 05, 2017, 09:48:40 AM
Think this guy is a WUM, ban him.

Pot, kettle and black.

Exactly.

All you need to do is look at his post in the 'Your GAA Highlight of 2017'. Clearly looking for a reaction.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: TheGreatest on December 05, 2017, 10:10:15 AM
Think this guy is a WUM, ban him.

Pot, kettle and black.

Exactly.

All you need to do is look at his post in the 'Your GAA Highlight of 2017'. Clearly looking for a reaction.

Nope, not at all, that was the honest truth my highlight of they year, the whinging and crying in the aftermath. Makes you appreciate victory more.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: mup on December 05, 2017, 10:13:43 AM
Think this guy is a WUM, ban him.

Pot, kettle and black.

Exactly.

All you need to do is look at his post in the 'Your GAA Highlight of 2017'. Clearly looking for a reaction.

Nope, not at all, that was the honest truth my highlight of they year, the whinging and crying in the aftermath. Makes you appreciate victory more.

Well then that's pathetic.

Besides I never heard so much whinging and crying coming from fans after they won the AI. You can't have it both ways.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Dinny Breen on December 05, 2017, 10:30:37 AM
In 10 years time when people ask when did GAA inter-county football die and is it only Kerry and Dublin that take it serious anymore, I shall point them to this thread.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Lar Naparka on December 05, 2017, 12:00:44 PM
In 10 years time when people ask when did GAA inter-county football die and it is only  Dublin A and Dublin B that take it serious anymore, I shall point them to this thread.
There! Fixed that for ya. ;D ;D
Going by Tomás and Marc Ó Sé, you'd be forgiven for thinking that Dublin and Kerry will battle it out for generations to come with the rest of us training miles behind. A battle among equals, the likes of which has never been seen before. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that Kerry will be able to put it up to the Dubs, year after year; a case of pathetic fallacy, if ever there was one.
It's delusional, plain and simple, to think that Kerry will have the resources and all that goes with that to put it up to Dublin on a sustained basis.
History is bunkum as Henry Ford said and what's good enough for Henry is good enough for me.
It's all very well to waffle on about tradition and glorious events of the past but the social and economic changes taking place right now have nothing to do with tradition.
The gap in every sense between Dublin and the rest of the country is widening all the time and Kerry will be no exception.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: johnneycool on December 06, 2017, 09:03:40 AM
Here’s a piece from Balls.ie (http://"https://www.balls.ie/gaa/sporting-grants-breakdown-show-massive-weighting-towards-dublin-gaa-clubs-378685") dealing with the same subject. Under the heading, Sporting Grants Breakdown Show Massive Weighting Towards Dublin GAA Clubs,it goes into more detail than Foley does.

Key paragraph from that link:

There's no doubt that on an individual basis, the grants to Dublin clubs may well be justified, and it's unlikely there is an actual bias, and it's more down to better lobbying and organisation, and better proposals. There is also the issue of capital expenditure being significantly more expensive in Dublin.

Each club made their own submission. The county the club happened to be in was totally irrelevant.

What is probably shows is that Dublin clubs continue to grow because population continues to increase, so there is more need for improved facilities.

Serious question here, does the Dublin CB have someone helping clubs to fill out the grant forms in a way that they are more likely to meet the requirements for funding?

No there isnt DCB assistance  , but it would be a logical thing for all county boards to do wouldnt it

It would, but I wonder would most of the other 31 CBs lack the funds to acquire the necessary expertise.

Down CB offer this service AFAIK but I have to say we are fortunate to have one of our committee members who's worked in such government bodies and her expertise has proved vital in all our applications.
They are an artform to say the least.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Avondhu star on December 06, 2017, 02:12:36 PM
Kerry County Board report spending over 1 million on team preparation across the various countg teams with over 300000 on the senior footballers. No shortage of moola there
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Rossfan on December 06, 2017, 02:59:06 PM
Maybe but they're not getting it from Croke Park though.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: TheGreatest on December 06, 2017, 04:19:08 PM
Maybe but they're not getting it from Croke Park though.

Neither do the Dublin senior footballers. Serious money by Kerry , Multi Billion Euro company sponsoring them.

Another interesting article also - https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/se%C3%A1n-moran-history-will-judge-dublin-as-exceptional-1.3316949

Have a great evening.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Lar Naparka on December 06, 2017, 04:50:44 PM
Kerry County Board report spending over 1 million on team preparation across the various countg teams with over 300000 on the senior footballers. No shortage of moola there
That's not very surprising since it covers all teams in all grades, ladies as well as men's teams. Mayo also spent over €1M on team preparations  in 2016 but that included the cost of fielding all teams, men and ladies, in all grades, replays included.
Travelling expenses take up a huge chunk of mayo's costs every year.  The same may well apply to Kerry also.
Ten of the present Mayo panel live and work/study in Dublin so the cost of ferrying them down to Ballyhaunis or wherever, and back again maybe 4 times a week is considerable.
( I believe that sometimes it's the home-based players who do the traveling as they are brought to Dublin to make use of the specialised facilities that are there. I've been told this but I don't know the details.)
Still, both Kerry and Mayo combined don't spend as much on their seniors as Dublin does. Dublin, if reports from their AGM  are true spent in excess of €1M last year.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: mrhardyannual on December 06, 2017, 10:47:02 PM
Kerry County Board report spending over 1 million on team preparation across the various countg teams with over 300000 on the senior footballers. No shortage of moola there
That's not very surprising since it covers all teams in all grades, ladies as well as men's teams. Mayo also spent over €1M on team preparations  in 2016 but that included the cost of fielding all teams, men and ladies, in all grades, replays included.
Travelling expenses take up a huge chunk of mayo's costs every year.  The same may well apply to Kerry also.
Ten of the present Mayo panel live and work/study in Dublin so the cost of ferrying them down to Ballyhaunis or wherever, and back again maybe 4 times a week is considerable.
( I believe that sometimes it's the home-based players who do the traveling as they are brought to Dublin to make use of the specialised facilities that are there. I've been told this but I don't know the details.)
Still, both Kerry and Mayo combined don't spend as much on their seniors as Dublin does. Dublin, if reports from their AGM  are true spent in excess of €1M last year.
Mayo accounts for 2016 showed €1.6 million spent on teams. None of this refers to Mayo Ladies.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: From the Bunker on December 06, 2017, 11:05:11 PM
Dublin entering their third team again to defend the O'Byrne Cup! :)
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Lar Naparka on December 06, 2017, 11:21:01 PM
Kerry County Board report spending over 1 million on team preparation across the various countg teams with over 300000 on the senior footballers. No shortage of moola there
That's not very surprising since it covers all teams in all grades, ladies as well as men's teams. Mayo also spent over €1M on team preparations  in 2016 but that included the cost of fielding all teams, men and ladies, in all grades, replays included.
Travelling expenses take up a huge chunk of mayo's costs every year.  The same may well apply to Kerry also.
Ten of the present Mayo panel live and work/study in Dublin so the cost of ferrying them down to Ballyhaunis or wherever, and back again maybe 4 times a week is considerable.
( I believe that sometimes it's the home-based players who do the traveling as they are brought to Dublin to make use of the specialised facilities that are there. I've been told this but I don't know the details.)
Still, both Kerry and Mayo combined don't spend as much on their seniors as Dublin does. Dublin, if reports from their AGM  are true spent in excess of €1M last year.
Mayo accounts for 2016 showed €1.6 million spent on teams. None of this refers to Mayo Ladies.
I'm going by what Edwin McGreal said and the total was for ALL teams. (I believe I read the same account on Willie Joe's blob. What was noteworthy was that this was the first time Mayo's spend for the  year exceeded €1M.)
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Syferus on December 07, 2017, 12:23:46 AM
Dublin entering their third team again to defend the O'Byrne Cup! :)

And it'd probably win Leinster too.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Bord na Mona man on December 07, 2017, 09:49:02 AM
It correlates that less financially wealthy counties, with the lowest budgets have the most players working away and travelling greater distances.

A good way to dilute one of Dublin's key advantages would be to have travel expenses for senior inter county teams come out of the central GAA budget.

With proper checks to make sure the expenses are genuine obviously.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: OgraAnDun on December 07, 2017, 10:44:37 AM
It correlates that less financially wealthy counties, with the lowest budgets have the most players working away and travelling greater distances.

A good way to dilute one of Dublin's key advantages would be to have travel expenses for senior inter county teams come out of the central GAA budget.

With proper checks to make sure the expenses are genuine obviously.

Seeing as all Dublin players work and live in Dublin, I doubt travel expenses are a large part of the DCBs expenses. I’m not sure how this would dilute Dublin’s advantage?
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Lone Shark on December 07, 2017, 11:08:54 AM
It correlates that less financially wealthy counties, with the lowest budgets have the most players working away and travelling greater distances.

A good way to dilute one of Dublin's key advantages would be to have travel expenses for senior inter county teams come out of the central GAA budget.

With proper checks to make sure the expenses are genuine obviously.

Seeing as all Dublin players work and live in Dublin, I doubt travel expenses are a large part of the DCBs expenses. I’m not sure how this would dilute Dublin’s advantage?

Because it's a minimal cost to a county like Dublin, but a significant burden to some other counties where there is little or no local employment/third level education, and so they're forking out significant mileage for every training session. I was told before that as a rule of thumb in some counties, every training session costs around €3,000 by the time you take into account mileage, food, management costs etc.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Rossfan on December 07, 2017, 11:12:49 AM
Id say that figure wouldn't be far out for western Counties anyway.
Some form of Central grant should be available right enough.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: OgraAnDun on December 07, 2017, 11:13:30 AM
I misconstrued your original post. Got it now! Decent idea if travel expenses are taken out of CBs hands and paid by Croke Park.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: Bord na Mona man on December 07, 2017, 11:17:36 AM
It correlates that less financially wealthy counties, with the lowest budgets have the most players working away and travelling greater distances.

A good way to dilute one of Dublin's key advantages would be to have travel expenses for senior inter county teams come out of the central GAA budget.

With proper checks to make sure the expenses are genuine obviously.

Seeing as all Dublin players work and live in Dublin, I doubt travel expenses are a large part of the DCBs expenses. I’m not sure how this would dilute Dublin’s advantage?
Yep, that's exactly the point.
The richest county in the GAA is also the nearest one to being cost neutral on expenses.
This particular circumstantial advantage can easily be balanced out.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: TheGreatest on December 07, 2017, 11:51:31 AM
I would go further that all expenses must be individually explained directly. What the managers expenses are, players, open the whole book on all counties, overseen by Croke Park and properly audited.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: OgraAnDun on December 07, 2017, 12:43:01 PM
I would go further that all expenses must be individually explained directly. What the managers expenses are, players, open the whole book on all counties, overseen by Croke Park and properly audited.

I imagine that the expenses you are alluding to - the ones not quite in line with the GAA's rules - come straight out of the sponsor's bank account and never actually go to the county board. So opening the books probably won't make much difference on that front.
Title: Re: Money, Dublin and the GAA
Post by: twohands!!! on December 07, 2017, 07:32:10 PM
I misconstrued your original post. Got it now! Decent idea if travel expenses are taken out of CBs hands and paid by Croke Park.

I think there is a plan in place whereby the actual mileage for intercounty players is going to be administered by Croke Park next year, but the county boards will be reimbursing Croke Park.

I've a notion this came about as a result of GPA lobbying because some of the county boards were constantly having issues with how timely they were in reimbursing intercounty players and there being differences in how the different codes were being treated in the same counties.