Tyrone County Football and Hurling

[BennyHarp]

McGeary should have been called into the senior squad by this stage.

is time to ask why promising young players aren't coming through... McNiece and Coney walk in frustration... Ronan O'Neill not being developed either and heading the same way by all accounts. Now other U 21s being taken in... for the same to happen to them?

Ah come on Longballin, your not trying to tell us that Tyrone are the only county who can't transform every good club player into a county star. Go to any county, in fact any club, in Ireland and they'll tell you about any number of lads who were/are great minors, club players etc but didn't perform for their county at senior. This isn't just a Mickey Harte thing.

But there is a longer list of talent in Tyrone that Harte has not brought through than in most other counties.

Is there?

Mulgrew, Coney, O'Neill, McDermott, Grugan to name a few who were arguably as good as there was in the country yet were not developed under Harte.

What about other counties?

What about them?

Well, you suggested that the list of players Harte hasn't brought through is longer than most other counties so I assume you have some sort of comparable figure?

[omagh_gael]

Plunkett Kane MOM last week Coalisland V Clonoe...

Plunkett Kane got a good run at the county and never really 'stepped up' IMO.

[tiempo]

Plunkett Kane MOM last week Coalisland V Clonoe...

Plunkett Kane got a good run at the county and never really 'stepped up' IMO.

I don't think he got a good run at the county at all and any time he show up well he never got a start the next day.
He was used in the same way Niall McKenna is (and Kevin Gallagher, and dozens of others), MH wants them in a training panel so he can play in house training games.
Did well to make it into the county setup in the first place and can be proud of his efforts.

[longballin]

Kane did not get fair run with the county.   

[BennyHarp]

Kane did not get fair run with the county.

Whats a fair run? He was on the panel for a few years, I'd assume that if he was performing in training he would have made the team. You cant just put every decent club player in the starting 15 for a year to see if they can hack it. They must show up better in training than others. This is the part of the process that we don't see. If Mickey didn't rate him he wouldn't have been on the squad, but once he's there, then its up to him to consistently push himself to make the starting 15. If he fell a bit short, then no shame in that but I cant see Mickey overlooking him if he was outstanding week in and week out at training.

[tiempo]

Kane did not get fair run with the county.

Whats a fair run? He was on the panel for a few years, I'd assume that if he was performing in training he would have made the team. You cant just put every decent club player in the starting 15 for a year to see if they can hack it. They must show up better in training than others. This is the part of the process that we don't see. If Mickey didn't rate him he wouldn't have been on the squad, but once he's there, then its up to him to consistently push himself to make the starting 15. If he fell a bit short, then no shame in that but I cant see Mickey overlooking him if he was outstanding week in and week out at training.

A fair run would be 4 or 5 starts to show up well, though that might be the bulk of a league campaign and if a player underperforms then understandably would be back among the subs. The problem is that even when Kane did perform well he was back on the subs the next day. If you compare that to the opportunities given to Ciaran McGinley and Aidan McCrory then there is a huge level of inconsistency, and it's easy to point the finger at MH for his parochial leanings, however there is an element of truth in it.

I would say Kane did very well to make the county setup and was a very committed member of it who never got a fair crack at making the starting 15 and was used to make up the numbers in a bloated training squad, like many before him and like many will no doubt in the future. I think the commitment of these players is commendable, however I don't think its commendable to keep a players hanging around the outskirts of a squad for 2 or 3 years expecting absolute commitment to training etc. if it is known by management that they are never realistically being considered first team players.

[nrico2006]

McGeary should have been called into the senior squad by this stage.

is time to ask why promising young players aren't coming through... McNiece and Coney walk in frustration... Ronan O'Neill not being developed either and heading the same way by all accounts. Now other U 21s being taken in... for the same to happen to them?

Ah come on Longballin, your not trying to tell us that Tyrone are the only county who can't transform every good club player into a county star. Go to any county, in fact any club, in Ireland and they'll tell you about any number of lads who were/are great minors, club players etc but didn't perform for their county at senior. This isn't just a Mickey Harte thing.

But there is a longer list of talent in Tyrone that Harte has not brought through than in most other counties.

Is there?

Mulgrew, Coney, O'Neill, McDermott, Grugan to name a few who were arguably as good as there was in the country yet were not developed under Harte.

What about other counties?

What about them?

Well, you suggested that the list of players Harte hasn't brought through is longer than most other counties so I assume you have some sort of comparable figure?

I suggested that there was a longer list of talent in Tyrone, i.e. numerous examples of star men in multiple All Ireland or Ulster winning minor sides.  The fact that Tyrone have produced so many great minor teams with so many of the key men not brought through would suggest that Harte is not the greatest at developing these players.

[redhandefender]

Kane did not get fair run with the county.

Whats a fair run? He was on the panel for a few years, I'd assume that if he was performing in training he would have made the team. You cant just put every decent club player in the starting 15 for a year to see if they can hack it. They must show up better in training than others. This is the part of the process that we don't see. If Mickey didn't rate him he wouldn't have been on the squad, but once he's there, then its up to him to consistently push himself to make the starting 15. If he fell a bit short, then no shame in that but I cant see Mickey overlooking him if he was outstanding week in and week out at training.

A fair run would be 4 or 5 starts to show up well, though that might be the bulk of a league campaign and if a player underperforms then understandably would be back among the subs. The problem is that even when Kane did perform well he was back on the subs the next day. If you compare that to the opportunities given to Ciaran McGinley and Aidan McCrory then there is a huge level of inconsistency, and it's easy to point the finger at MH for his parochial leanings, however there is an element of truth in it.

I would say Kane did very well to make the county setup and was a very committed member of it who never got a fair crack at making the starting 15 and was used to make up the numbers in a bloated training squad, like many before him and like many will no doubt in the future. I think the commitment of these players is commendable, however I don't think its commendable to keep a players hanging around the outskirts of a squad for 2 or 3 years expecting absolute commitment to training etc. if it is known by management that they are never realistically being considered first team players.

As harsh as it is only 15 are gonna play. The league is important. You can't drop an entire squad and hope for the best with new guys. Can you imagine the outcry if we got beat every game and din't put it up to anyone, but wait its okay plunkett kane got a good run and looked okay but those 4 other guys weren't good enough and now we are relegated.

Harte has obviously falling out with fellas and consistently picked fellas for whatever reason or another but this big idea that 10 new gusy are gonna start 5 games is ludicrous. Why plunkett kane? what about the other 9 new faces. He had his chance and I actually think if he stuck it out would be playing now

[Bensars]

Some people are making an assumption that a good club player automatically will make good county player. Another assumption is some players are deserving of starting positions based on time served within the panel.

If they were good enough in training they would have forced their way through. I could see someone being overlooked, due in inexperience,  initially but certainly not over a period of several years.

Good club players dont necessarily make the break through at county level, even when given the oppurtunity. Doesnt make them bad players. Sometimes at club level they are the big fish in the small pond with a lot of the club resources in terms of play going through them.

The same luxury of supply is  not afforded at county level against better players.

[longballin]

...or perhaps the manager makes the wrong call or has a wee favouritism to some... 

[winghalfback]

All this talk about players leaving the panel no mention of shea mc guigan pj lavery dwayne quinn are they just not good enough to warrant a mention

[redhandefender]

All this talk about players leaving the panel no mention of shea mc guigan pj lavery dwayne quinn are they just not good enough to warrant a mention

Shay Mc Guigan - definitely not good enough and had plenty of chances

Dwayne Quinn - Not in a starting position yet but would and hopefully still will come good

PJ Lavery - I think definitely would have made the team eventually if he had stuck at it

[omaghjoe]

McGeary was in the panel training with the seniors at the end of last year/start of this year but left to concentrate on Tyrone U21s and Sigerson for St. Mary's. Harte may well treat this as a snub.

[/b]

What do you mean 'may treat this as a snub'. MH most definitely treats this as a snub - anyone who snubs or does anything to annoy Harte will regret it unfortunately. There are quite a few lads who have suffered because they crossed MH in some form or other and McGeary appears to have been added to the list

What about Matthew Donnelly? Didnt he do the very same thing a few years back? No grudge there?

[rrhf]

Plunkett Kane MOM last week Coalisland V Clonoe...

I disagree with you on my kenna.  He has reached that level in the last 12 months and is now a class act so harte deserves his credit in developing him. Unfortunately he is wrecked this year with injury.

Plunkett Kane got a good run at the county and never really 'stepped up' IMO.

I don't think he got a good run at the county at all and any time he show up well he never got a start the next day.
He was used in the same way Niall McKenna is (and Kevin Gallagher, and dozens of others), MH wants them in a training panel so he can play in house training games.
Did well to make it into the county setup in the first place and can be proud of his efforts.

[Redhand Santa]

...or perhaps the manager makes the wrong call or has a wee favouritism to some... 

Some crap talked on here of late. I'd love to see the team some of you boys would be putting out. Sounds like it would be made up of players who have had chances and never done it at senior level. The same boys on here complaining about boys not getting a run of games would be the first complaining when we got beat playing badly and continued giving the same players games. Out of interest Longballin what would your first 15 be and who is Harte's favourites your referring to?

We've had good minor teams in the last ten years but I'm not sure the blame can be put solely on Harte for players not coming through. It's a very difficult set up and we were very fortunate with the 97/98 minor team. Don't forget they went on to prove themselves at u21 level. Whereas the players who played well at minor level in the last ten years went on to totally flop at u21 level which was nothing to do with Harte.

To be honest I don't think the team sent out the last day was that far away from the best we have available. There might be a few players with more natural ability like Coney and O'Neill not playing but that doesn't mean they're worth there place on the team. Harte was very unselfish in his use of the u21s throughout the league.

When you saw what Donegal did to Armagh last week and the fact we had a bit of inexperience including 3 debutants and still ran Donegal very close I feel it was a performance that can be built on. If the players show the same hunger and a few u21s push on we can still have a decent summer ahead.

A lot of speculation on here about McNamee but has anything actually been confirmed?