Won't pass further comment, don't speak ill, etc.:
Former Minister O'Brien dies aged 91
Thursday, 18 December 2008 22:11
The death has taken place of the former Cabinet minister and journalist Conor Cruise O'Brien.
Mr O'Brien, who was 91, served as Minister for Posts and Telegraph during the Fine Gael/Labour coalition in the 1970s.
Mr O'Brien was also a civil servant, a UN official, a writer, an academic and a newspaper editor.
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He studied History and Literature in Trinity College and was the author of books, including States of Ireland, which examined the relationship between Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland.
His plays include Murderous Angels and King Herald Explains.
He joined the civil service at 25, before later going to external affairs and then becoming a delegate to the UN Assembly.
In 1969, he was elected to the Dáil as a member of the Labour Party and he became the party's spokesman on Northern Ireland.
He became Minister for Posts and Telegraphs in 1973 but lost his seat in 1977.
Labour Leader Eamon Gilmore said he was greatly saddened by Mr O'Brien's death.
Taoiseach Brian Cowen has expressed his condolences to the family of Mr O'Brien, who he said was a leading figure in Irish life in many spheres since the 1960s.
'(He) was blessed with a strong intellect and he was a man of strong convictions. I never doubted his sincerity or his commitment to a better and more peaceful Ireland,' Mr Cowen added.
No loss.
Bless :'(
Mightn't always have agreed with him - but always admired his courage in expressing an opinion that was almost always universally controversial.
GUBU
Agreed Stephenite. For all his faults, he definitely had the courage of his convictions, as the cliché has it. A man who was a public atheist in 1950s Ireland had some gonads. Hitler didn't get as bad a press as he did.
Quote from: Hardy on December 19, 2008, 12:58:48 AM
Hitler didn't get as bad a press as he did.
Would Hitler have been somewhat proud of the Cruiser's draconian reinforcement of Section 31 of the Broadcasting Act in 1977?
Hip hip....
Served his country and stood up for his beliefs. As much as could be asked of any man.
Quote from: stephenite on December 19, 2008, 12:06:19 AM
Mightn't always have agreed with him - but always admired his courage in expressing an opinion that was almost always universally controversial.
GUBU
I remember being at an L&H thing in UCD in the mid-90s where he turned up to support Robert McCartney who was down to take part in a debate (along with David Ervine, Martin Mansergh, Paul Murphy, Gay Mitchell, Brid Rodgers and a few others I can't remember specifically). He was very, very feeble even then, but he gave solid support to McCartney who was getting quite heated at times as the "shames" rang down upon him! Didn't agree with some of his views (he definitely lost his way in reference to McCartney and Paisley), but I admired his courage.
Wouldn't have had a lot of time for his views but would have admired his conviction.
Quote from: Declan on December 19, 2008, 07:23:44 AM
Wouldn't have had a lot of time for his views but would have admired his conviction.
Wont be shedding any tears
Odious man. A so called Constitutional politician who revelled in the persecution/torture of his political enemies in the Nationalist/Irish Language/Gaeltacht activists etc.
A poster boy imo for the nasty elements in this country. Won't shed any tears. The Indo will wet themselves in their plaudits .......CCOB was another sacred cow who got an easy ride from the "official Ireland" media.
Can't say I have ever agreed with anything his poisoned pen wrote in that rag. However, my condolences to his family & friends.
I thought it embarrasing when he joined the UK Unionists, and then they slag off "de orish" at their political conferences
Quote from: Canalman on December 19, 2008, 09:07:47 AM
Odious man. A so called Constitutional politician who revelled in the persecution/torture of his political enemies in the Nationalist/Irish Language/Gaeltacht activists etc.
A poster boy imo for the nasty elements in this country. Won't shed any tears. The Indo will wet themselves in their plaudits .......CCOB was another sacred cow who got an easy ride from the "official Ireland" media.
Couldn't have put it better.
West Brit of the very worst kind, 91 sure he got a good long life, sympathies to his family, it's always hard to lose a loved one.
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Re: The Cruiser dies
« Reply #12 on: Today at 09:07:47 AM »
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Odious man. A so called Constitutional politician who revelled in the persecution/torture of his political enemies in the Nationalist/Irish Language/Gaeltacht activists etc.
A poster boy imo for the nasty elements in this country. Won't shed any tears. The Indo will wet themselves in their plaudits .......CCOB was another sacred cow who got an easy ride from the "official Ireland" media.
what ever about the nationalist thing i dont know where you got the galetacht stuff. he was married to maire mac an tsaoi
GC, there was State harassment of Gaeltacht activists (campaigning about roads,the language, setting up co operatives etc in Gaeltacht areas). The 1973 coalition very wrongly assumed that they were IRA related and classed them as a threat to the state. Very nasty things done I'm sad to say in the name of the State.
TG4 have done a number of documentaries about this era. CCOB despite his lowly ministerial status had the ear of the Govt of that time and was a huge proponent of this imo unnecessary harrassment.
fair enough, i stand corrected.
As dead as his mate Bob McCartney's political career
He will never be remembered. Standing beside that other egotistical asshole Mc Cartney I always though Booze O'Brien resembled Father Jack and talked as much sense as him as well. Interesting to see the unionist turnout at his funeral
I don't know the man personally.
It is his political and social commentator personality which is public knowledge.
He did take part in a classic (priceless) RTE radio debate with Vincent Browne when Browne nailed him as a tax evader as in not declaring journalist income he thought he had not to declare (ironically under Haughey's tax free scheme for artists).
I always admired his courage in defending democracy with section 31.
Also his courageous hatred of violence as a political tool with his uniquical love of the Heavy Gang.
As a historian of the present day he was remarkable for allowing his subjectivity cloud over the basic tenet of a historian - objectivity. Perfectly illustrated in his account of the Bloody Sunday civil rights demonstration.
Quote from: Donagh on December 19, 2008, 02:30:39 AM
Served his country and stood up for his beliefs. As much as could be asked of any man.
If you think collating a list of names and addresses of people who criticised his policies in the letter pages of the paper and passing them to the Gardai Heavy gang to have a 'word' (thankfully they declined) is 'serving his country', then you and I have fundamentally different views of what public service should entail.
Quote from: dublinfella on December 19, 2008, 02:59:45 PM
If you think collating a list of names and addresses of people who criticised his policies in the letter pages of the paper and passing them to the Gardai Heavy gang to have a 'word' (thankfully they declined) is 'serving his country', then you and I have fundamentally different views of what public service should entail.
I didn't say he served it well.
Anyone hear the funeral arrangments? I'm pre-emptively buying some turnips to shower the cortege a la Lady Di
That would appear to be disrespectful to a rotting corpse.
I would normally follow the decorum of not speaking ill of the dead, but considering his comments about those who died in Bloody Sunday, he was a rotten f**ker who won't be missed muich for his political opinions. I feel that I have to say that he was a very intelligent man, however, and could have been one of the most brilliant Irishmen of all time if he had the right wits about him.
Hopefully the kiss of nature will give him some peace, and long live his legacy of intellectualism, if not the convictions which marred it.
I have nothing good to say about this cnut so I wont go on a rant except for one item ---
in 1973 he was appointed Minister of Posts and Telegraphs at a time when the Irish telephone system was about 10 years behind the rest of the world.
In 1977 when he got his just reward the phones were 20 years behind the rest of the world.
Quote from: Rossfan on December 19, 2008, 08:56:14 PM
I have nothing good to say about this cnut so I wont go on a rant except for one item ---
in 1973 he was appointed Minister of Posts and Telegraphs at a time when the Irish telephone system was about 10 years behind the rest of the world.
In 1977 when he got his just reward the phones were 20 years behind the rest of the world.
The Cruiser was minister for Posts and Telegraphs and Labour spokesman for Norn Iron at the same time. He spent his entire time mouthing about the IRA and nationalist activists generally and devoted little or no time to his ministerial brief. Rossfan is right; he left the telephone service twice as bad as it was when he took up the job.
I remember a Fianna Fail spokesman (Brian Lenihan snr?) snapping at him one night on TV that if he had to use a public telephone box to phone in his comments we'd hear a lot less of his views on Northern Ireland.
About 18 months ago, I found myself sharing an ICU in Beaumont with him. I felt sorry for the old devil; if ever there was a dead man walking, it was him. He wasn't actually walking, if you follow me. It was plain to see that his walking days were well and truly over.
I'm more than surprised that he lasted so long.
Throughout his political career, he was fiercely hostile towards Charlie Haughey. Some political commentators have been reporting that it was a positive side to his character and that he deserved credit for tackling Haughey over, let us say, his unorthodox way of funding his lifestyle.
Maybe his reasons for hating Haughey weren't as altruistic as those commentators think.
The night before the '73 election I found myself having a quiet drink with the bould Charlie. It was an unplanned meeting and it as CJ was buying, Lar was prepared to pretend to be polite and listen. Haughey made some extremely accurate forecasts at that meeting.
Fianna Fail were going to lose the election the next day. That one was fair enough, although the pundits were predicting a close win for Jack Lynch. Haughey would top the poll in his constituency, thereby relegating the Cruiser to second place. (They obviously stood in the same constituency.)
Conor, sez CJ, was a complete egotist and would resent Haughey outpolling him for as long as he lived. Haughey went on to say the Cruiser would stop at nothing to do him down, as he put it.
He then went on to say that when he assumed leadership of Fianna Fail, he would have to contend with O'Brien's enmity ever step of the way. In his own words, he wouldn't give a f**k for the to**er but he would snap at his heels all along the way.
One final prediction: Haughey reckoned there would be a major war in the Middle East over oil resources before 1990 arrived. He was to be out by just 15 days.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 19, 2008, 11:05:36 PM
One final prediction: Haughey reckoned there would be a major war in the Middle East over oil resources before 1990 arrived. He was to be out by just 15 days.
Meanwhile Cruiser spent the nineties and noughties telling us that
1- there would be a civil war in the North and
2- the Army would stage a coup in the 26 Cos.
I heard there was a cartoon in "An Phoblacht" after the 1977 election showing the Cruiser boarding a ship for England with the heading "Slán abhaile" :)
Quote from: Lar Naparka on December 19, 2008, 11:05:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 19, 2008, 08:56:14 PM
I have nothing good to say about this cnut so I wont go on a rant except for one item ---
in 1973 he was appointed Minister of Posts and Telegraphs at a time when the Irish telephone system was about 10 years behind the rest of the world.
In 1977 when he got his just reward the phones were 20 years behind the rest of the world.
The Cruiser was minister for Posts and Telegraphs and Labour spokesman for Norn Iron at the same time. He spent his entire time mouthing about the IRA and nationalist activists generally and devoted little or no time to his ministerial brief. Rossfan is right; he left the telephone service twice as bad as it was when he took up the job.
I remember a Fianna Fail spokesman (Brian Lenihan snr?) snapping at him one night on TV that if he had to use a public telephone box to phone in his comments we'd hear a lot less of his views on Northern Ireland.
About 18 months ago, I found myself sharing an ICU in Beaumont with him. I felt sorry for the old devil; if ever there was a dead man walking, it was him. He wasn't actually walking, if you follow me. It was plain to see that his walking days were well and truly over.
I'm more than surprised that he lasted so long.
Throughout his political career, he was fiercely hostile towards Charlie Haughey. Some political commentators have been reporting that it was a positive side to his character and that he deserved credit for tackling Haughey over, let us say, his unorthodox way of funding his lifestyle.
Maybe his reasons for hating Haughey weren't as altruistic as those commentators think.
The night before the '73 election I found myself having a quiet drink with the bould Charlie. It was an unplanned meeting and it as CJ was buying, Lar was prepared to pretend to be polite and listen. Haughey made some extremely accurate forecasts at that meeting.
Fianna Fail were going to lose the election the next day. That one was fair enough, although the pundits were predicting a close win for Jack Lynch. Haughey would top the poll in his constituency, thereby relegating the Cruiser to second place. (They obviously stood in the same constituency.)
Conor, sez CJ, was a complete egotist and would resent Haughey outpolling him for as long as he lived. Haughey went on to say the Cruiser would stop at nothing to do him down, as he put it.
He then went on to say that when he assumed leadership of Fianna Fail, he would have to contend with O'Brien's enmity ever step of the way. In his own words, he wouldn't give a f**k for the to**er but he would snap at his heels all along the way.
One final prediction: Haughey reckoned there would be a major war in the Middle East over oil resources before 1990 arrived. He was to be out by just 15 days.
When you talk of them two in the same story it's not hard to see we have been fucked from the start.
what i don't get is why the media and politicians today kept referring to cruiser as an intellectual when he was much closer to an idiot. an intellectual thro higher intelect is supposed to get it right more than anyone else but o'brien never missed an opportunity to call it wrong with his many predictions not too mention his party hopping. now he was an academic of sorts but an intellectual, not a hope so why has that moniker stuck?. as for serving his country? this was the guy that didn't declare his income from his rantings in the indo for income tax because he thought it was tax free under the artist exemption. of course he knew this was bull but was he pulled up on it by anyone? no. when it suited him he was a liar, the rest of the time he was deluded. i wont even pretend to miss the cnut..
Quote from: magickingdom on December 20, 2008, 09:29:50 PM
what i don't get is why the media and politicians today kept referring to cruiser as an intellectual when he was much closer to an idiot. an intellectual thro higher intelect is supposed to get it right more than anyone else but o'brien never missed an opportunity to call it wrong with his many predictions not too mention his party hopping. now he was an academic of sorts but an intellectual, not a hope so why has that moniker stuck?. as for serving his country? this was the guy that didn't declare his income from his rantings in the indo for income tax because he thought it was tax free under the artist exemption. of course he knew this was bull but was he pulled up on it by anyone? no. when it suited him he was a liar, the rest of the time he was deluded. i wont even pretend to miss the cnut..
Why don't you tell us what you really think? :D
The Cruiser, who so ostensibly was pacifist, was the individual who first authorised the UN to use lethal force (in the Congo), and saw no harm in State violence against those with whom he had issue. He was a bag of cats philosophically, but a very dangerous bag of philosophical cats.
Only in Ireland would such a man get a political career.
Quote from: carribbear on December 20, 2008, 10:42:56 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on December 20, 2008, 09:29:50 PM
what i don't get is why the media and politicians today kept referring to cruiser as an intellectual when he was much closer to an idiot. an intellectual thro higher intelect is supposed to get it right more than anyone else but o'brien never missed an opportunity to call it wrong with his many predictions not too mention his party hopping. now he was an academic of sorts but an intellectual, not a hope so why has that moniker stuck?. as for serving his country? this was the guy that didn't declare his income from his rantings in the indo for income tax because he thought it was tax free under the artist exemption. of course he knew this was bull but was he pulled up on it by anyone? no. when it suited him he was a liar, the rest of the time he was deluded. i wont even pretend to miss the cnut..
Why don't you tell us what you really think? :D
cause i dont like speaking ill of the dead ;)
Just watched the programme on RTE about O'Brien. A self important malign individual.
I gave that program a miss.
Judging here by the mini mass break from tradition of not speaking ill of the dead, O'Brien was very successful at being what he was.
After listen to the sycophantic drivel from an Olivia O'Leary tribute on RTE radio, I can only say that my reasoning was severely provoked into having malign thoughts about him.